AirPods Max

https://www.apple.com/newsroom/2020/12/apple-introduces-airpods-max-the-magic-of-airpods-in-a-stunning-over-ear-design/

by css • 6 years ago

996 1821 6 years ago

css3• 6 years ago

AirPods Max are available to order starting today for $549 (US) from apple.com and in the Apple Store app in the US and more than 25 other countries and regions. AirPods Max will begin shipping on Tuesday, December 15.

Edit: After AppleCare, optional 3.5mm cable, and tax, it comes out to just over $700 USD.

Jgrubb• 6 years ago

That's funny, that was the bit of copy that jumped out the most to me as well :)

selykg3• 6 years ago

"Hey, cool, something not in-ear, this could be just what I was looking for."

See's price: Nope... I'll stick with what I've got for now.

Those are some of the most expensive headphones I've ever seen and I thought Bose's QC3's at $350 were overpriced. This kicks it up a notch further. I'll be curious what the reviews show for sure, but too rich for my blood.

pickle-wizard• 6 years ago

No kidding. I've got a pair of really nice Klipsch bluetooth headphones that I only paid $249 for. I don't see how these can be $300 better.

caractacus• 6 years ago

Those are some of the most expensive headphones I've ever seen

You should hang around head-fi sometime if you think these are expensive...

peteretep5• 6 years ago

Guess it’s going to at least somewhat depend on how important spatial audio turns out to be. My QC35s are on their last legs, and I’m certainly pretty curious about these having just ordered some AirPod Pros...

xwdv• 6 years ago

QC3 came out in 2006... That price today would be about the same as Air Pod Max in 2020 dollars.

fernandotakai• 6 years ago

if you are looking for an over the ear, top notch, bluetooth headset, i would recommend the Sony's XM4. i have a pair, they are amazing -- the noise cancelling is so good, it kind of gives me a bit of vertigo.

Tomdarkness• 6 years ago

At $549 they better be rather impressive. The same amount of money can buy you some fairly high end conventional headphones.

neom3• 6 years ago

How are these also not simply high end conventional headphones?

headmelted3• 6 years ago

$549 a pair. Yikes.

I'm fairly confident I've reached my own personal peak for Apple pricing. As a spectator I've no doubt these will sell massive numbers but I'm curious to learn what the market will bear for Apple's products.

Slikey2• 6 years ago

Especially if you consider the inherent issues with Bluetooth call quality. No matter how good their microphones in them are, they will mangle the audio back to the 90s. $549 seems entirely detached and I am baffled, even as an ANC enthusiast.

Cthulhu_2• 6 years ago

I did hear Rumours (I never looked into it) that there will be an upcoming feature in bluetooth that will allow for higher quality. I believe currently the tradeoff is audio quality vs latency. My bluetooth headphones (Sony) switch between high quality but ~500ms latency (guess), to low quality but no noticeable latency when doing calls.

stetrain8• 6 years ago

Whatever protocol Apple uses for calling with Airpods + Apple devices isn't the same as the usual bluetooth call codec.

cactus20939• 6 years ago

Have you used Bluetooth headphones this decade? And airpods in particular? There’s not really any problem with audio quality they sound pretty much indistinguishable from wired headphones in real world use (sure if you’re sitting alone in a quiet room with an audiophile setup listening to FLAC files because 320kbps mp3s aren’t high quality enough, then you may want something else).

Etheryte2• 6 years ago

For comparison, Sony's WH-1000XM4 which are currently widely considered the state of the art in the active noise cancelling over-ears, will cost you anywhere between $300-$400 depending on where you are.

(I was very surprised the price can vary that widely, actually. On Sony's US page they're $279, while in the EU they're €380 which is about $460.)

bilal4hmed• 6 years ago

A few weeks before black friday I picked up new 1000XM3 for a $100. These better be something amazing for that price

bosie2• 6 years ago

i had both the sony wh-1000xm4 and now use the sennheiser momentum 3. via bluetooth i have the same problem on both my macbook pro and iphone: they lag. i watch a youtube video (on ios in the app; on osx browser or a video app) and the sound is a few ms behind (very noticeably though).

any idea what's going on there and/or if apple would solve this somehow with airpods max?

deergomoo4• 6 years ago

I’ve been hovering on the XM4s waiting for these to be announced. I very much like my regular AirPods, but at £549 I’m definitely going to get the Sonys for £349.

I’m sure the AirPods will be more convenient in some ways, but as I’ll be using them almost entirely inside the house, I’m willing to forego that considering the huge price difference. I much prefer the visual style of the Sonys too; not that that matters all that much.

I’m interested to see reviews of the AirPods to see what they’re like on the sound quality front though.

ruph123• 6 years ago

I bought the M3 right when they came out for about 320€ (I think they were 380 but there was a deal). And got a reimbursement about a year later because of technical problems. Because I really liked them I bought them again and the price then was about 180€. And I’d say the M4 don’t add so much to warrant the difference over the M3 at their current pricing. In any case, Apples product will never see deals remotely close to this. (Maybe 50€ off if the stars are perfectly aligned)

ylere• 6 years ago

They are regularly available in Europe for around 300€ (360$), really good deals are around 250€ (300$) [these prices are with VAT].

ChrisRR5• 6 years ago

Don't forget US prices aren't quoted with VAT, where EU prices often are

wait_a_minute4• 6 years ago

My experience with the WH-1000XM3 was awful. Sound cancel feature wasn't that great, couldn't pair with multiple devices at the same time and have the audio switch seamlessly between the two, and I also didn't want to have to trust Sony with my listening data. Call me paranoid if you'd like, but smart headphones are basically pumping out information about what we're listening to or hearing around us, and if I was going to trust any corporation to be user-centric on privacy in this regard it'd be Apple.

If Apple's headphones have high audio quality and a seamless experience across multiple devices and cool features prepping the way for VR/AR (the way other comments have suggested) then I'd buy a pair.

ordinaryradical• 6 years ago

In the same boat. Love music, love hi fidelity headphones, very enthusiastic about wireless for home office use, not at all interested in these.

“One touch set up” is just not a feature anywhere on my Venn Diagram of excitement.

jesusthatsgreat• 6 years ago

$549 today isn't as much as $549 was 10 years ago or even 5 years ago. The world is getting wealthier. Money is getting cheaper. We've just printed trillions of dollars this year to keep the good times rolling baby. We live in an era where people would rather pay $549 for a set of headphones than save it in a bank account or save for a house, cuz there's no way in hell they'll ever be able to afford a house. So why not blow it on experiences and shiney stuff instead of clinging on to a dream that can never be realised? That's the mentality of a lot of Apple's target market.

headmelted3• 6 years ago

“Think different” I guess..

bnj2• 6 years ago

Don't worry in a few short years you'll be able to lease your Apple Car and Apple House.

/s-sortof.

meesterdude2• 6 years ago

meanwhile the last time the federal minimum wage was raised was in 2009, to $7.25 an hour. At that rate, you'd need to work ~76 hours to afford these headphones.

From a company that priced a monitor stand at $1000, this is at least more functional. But for most people, a pair of $30 headphones will be just as good, albeit without the status symbol element.

motoboi• 6 years ago

OH, my… What are you doing Apple? Why so many products with so many versions? Will you do an Apple Printer again?

Please don't.

eej71• 6 years ago

I loved the Image Writer II. But maybe that's not the printer you were thinking of.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ImageWriter

shmoogy• 6 years ago

When the mention of the magnets came up, I figured this was a bit more than I wanted to spend. What a bummer, but I hope it ends up being real audiophile grade hardware.

reeestandard• 6 years ago

Looks good but that price is $200 higher than the Sony WH1000 or Bose 700. Also that case is hilarious, I guess they don't fold at all

ThePadawan• 6 years ago

Also that case is hilarious, I guess they don't fold at all

Interestingly, it looks like the usual Bose folding method, just stopped halfway through.

pgt• 6 years ago

If you paid $549 for headphones, you want people to know. These are like the Gucci handbags of headphones.

bnj2• 6 years ago

I'd be the one who bought these and only ever used them at home out of fear of other people seeing that I'd bought them.

Reflecting on your comment made me realize I'm never going to be driving a fancy car, I feel like I've lost something today.

duncanawoods• 6 years ago

That bikini carry case...

https://www.apple.com/newsroom/images/product/airpods/standa...

lethologica6• 6 years ago

That looks woefully inadequate to protect an expensive set of headphones.

leokennis6• 6 years ago

Yep, no way I am stowing away headphones into a suitcase or work bag using this piece of fabric as a "case".

saagarjha5• 6 years ago

Can’t unsee :(

elicash6• 6 years ago

I'm secure enough with my masculinity that I don't mind carrying something that looks like a purse if it were useful.

But I'd never want to carry my headphones in my hand. When not in use, when I'm out (say I'm about to check-out at the grocery store and don't want to be rude), they hang on my neck. I'm not going to want to carry around an empty carrying case at the same time that I'm using my device so that I can neatly put it away when NOT in use. Maybe overnight, if there's some benefit?

I suppose if they were in a suitcase, it could prevent damage? But airports are one of the main places I love over-the-ear headphones, so they wouldn't be in my bag. Also, if in a bag, you wouldn't want the carrying strap because it just adds bulk.

_wldu• 6 years ago

The price is ridiculous.

clolege16• 6 years ago

These are quite appealing for their spatial audio support, without seeming quite as throwaway as the in-ear AirPods [0].

I wonder if they'll end up sounding like beats?

[0] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23826070

jankotek3• 6 years ago

$500 for headphones is fine, if they would last 20 years.

AirPods look like flimsy plastic stuff. For portable heapdhones they are not water resistant, do not fold and not even come with hard case. And given apple, there will be no spare parts and manuals.

Get Sony, much better value.

dsr_2• 6 years ago

My Sony MDR7506 is... 22 years old. Cost about $100 back then. Looks like Amazon will sell you a new set for a little less than that. 11,500 reviews.

I've replaced the pads twice, at a cost of about $10 each time.

dsalzman2• 6 years ago

Including the Digital Crown from the Apple Watch demonstrates the power of Apple designing their hardware in house and amortizing new components over many products.

ChrisRR5• 6 years ago

So... a volume knob?

dsalzman2• 6 years ago

It’s not that it’s innovative in its function. It’s innovative in the speed of design and ability to leverage parts in their supply chain they already have.

manderley• 6 years ago

No other product before has had a twistable button!

sixstringtheory2• 6 years ago

Many used to, but how many modern "smart" devices do? It's all touchscreen now. I'm glad they're keeping this tech around.

panpanna• 6 years ago

I thought these looked familiar, but it was just the metal frame reminding me of jabra elite/ evolve.

Usually when apple creates a new product they are very careful to give it a distinct look that is immediately identifiable from competitor products.

---

Entirely off-topic: Looking forward to seeing people who make 1/3 of what I make (and my salary is pretty average) telling me they are a winner because they snagged one of these babies on release day. We are so easily fooled...

koenvdb• 6 years ago

Why does it matter to you that people "who make 1/3 of what you make" buy this device on release day? That's just pathetic.

klmadfejno3• 6 years ago

The implication there is that if someone made twice as much as you did and made a similar brag, that they wouldn't be foolish. You may not think these are a good value purchase. I don't either. But flaunting your income as a sign of being a winner is an ironically similar fallacy.

flyinglizard• 6 years ago

Will it rattle?

jacobush2• 6 years ago

or blend?

mattgreenrocks• 6 years ago

I worry this will drive up prices in the headphone market. Sennheiser and other players may see that there's way more money to be made by simply marking up what they have.

headmelted3• 6 years ago

I dunno. You and I know what Sennheiser headphones are, but does Joe?

I expect Apple wants to market these to people looking for fancier Beats.

fastball9• 6 years ago

Couple problems with this line of thinking:

1. You are assuming these don't offer a better experience than Sennheisers et al. and that the only reason they are more expensive is "because Apple". Maybe true, but also hard to justify contextually given Apple just released the best bang-for-your-buck laptop on the market.

2. The audio market is pretty competitive. If Sennheisers up their prices without improving anything, someone else (with equivalent quality) will come along at Sennheiser's old price point. I know I just bought some $50 noice-cancelling headphones that work for my purposes (and have USB-C fast charging).

jdxcode2• 6 years ago

Top selling point for me is that volume knob

emsy3• 6 years ago

These look magnificent. I’m Looking forward to a couple of years when the battery is dead and you can’t change it without breaking the glued case. This is similar to the reaction I have to announcements of new Google services due to notorious discontinuation.

Edit: judging from the explosion view, it does look to feature actual screws, so I'm cautiously optimistic they might last longer than 3 years, although you never know if they didn't add authentication to the battery to prevent it from being user-servicable.

mgraupner3• 6 years ago

One of the things I criticise the most of Apple, the whole AirPod line is a disposable product. If the battery dies you can throw it away. I like Apple products but I will never own any pair of AirPods or any other product where you can dispose of it when the battery is done. This is a shareholders dream, but an environmental nightmare.

fastball9• 6 years ago

I don't know of a single wireless earbud that has a replaceable battery.

schappim2• 6 years ago

Apple will service the battery out of warranty for $79USD.

mgraupner3• 6 years ago

That is not true, you will get a new AirPod, the battery will not be "serviced" and the old ones will be thrown away.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/technology/2019/10/08/everyon...

klmadfejno3• 6 years ago

These look pretty ugly to me.

I'm sure they work well but I don't see them one-upping airpods. Airpods have a key feature in that they can be put in one's pocket or purse.

stetrain8• 6 years ago

I'm guessing it's not meant to one-up airpods. It's a higher margin device for a smaller audience.

avlewis• 6 years ago

That has been the sticking point with me. Having a case that attaches them to my keyring has proved to be a great convenience.

YetAnotherNick• 6 years ago

If you are not from that time, airpod looking ugly and weird was the common theme among most the reviews. Then somehow they became status symbol. There was some video or some blog which argues that Apple making weird looking products intentionally, as they want to use that as symbol rather than some other competition like product.

klmadfejno3• 6 years ago

Eh... airpods look weird, but they're also fairly discrete. You notice the little stems, but they're easy to ignore. This is a pretty big honking device.

I'm not sure I buy airpods are a status symbol either in most people's eyes either. I like airpods, but does anyone really make a judgement based on choice of earbud? I doubt it.

formerly_proven2• 6 years ago

Somehow Peltor ear-muffs manage to look nicer than this. I hope no one shows Rams one of these, he might just die of shock how tasteless they are.

peteretep5• 6 years ago

If I buy these, it’ll be in addition to my “stuff in pocket and go” headphones. I listen to music while working literally all day, and my needs for the item that provides that is pretty different from what I want at the gym or if I am meeting a friend and want something for the journey.

delecti2• 6 years ago

"Ugly" was my immediate impression too. The band looks like a 1980s era idea of futuristic, with a pair of oversized Apple Watches stuck on each end.

I wasn't a fan of the Airpod aesthetic either, but they made a bit of sense, because they seemed like a reasonable evolution from 15 years of marketing around their iPod/iPhone headphone cables.

cromka5• 6 years ago

For anyone having doubts about the design and maybe attributing it to Apple tendency to predate or establish trends, just look at the case that these come with. It looks absolutely hideous and just... tacky. TACKY. This isn't Ive's product, that's for sure.

jacobush2• 6 years ago

There's something about the colors that made me fell ill to my stomach. The rose color, it's just too much Apple. And I like my rose colored iPhone. What next, Apple t-shirts? How much and how large Apple branding are we expected to flout?

At least the iPods are rather small and the phone fits in the pocket.

Lio2• 6 years ago

I have a similar feeling about some of the other design features such as the carrying case and the watch style "winder". They seem overly fussy and lack cleanness IMHO.

I simply conclude these are not designed for me. I think I prefer my current QC35s

I do note though that they are not really branded as such. It's just that Apple's styling is very distinctive. My Bose headphones for instance feature an embossed Bose logo on each ear.

thih9• 6 years ago

I don't see a mention of any socket, mini jack or micro jack; this is predictable but still unfortunate. I wish it was possible to use these with non bluetooth gear.

Update: I see a mention of the lightning connector (for charging) at https://www.apple.com/airpods-max/specs/ . I wonder if lightning to mini jack adapter would work with this product.

egil• 6 years ago

AirPods Max require Apple devices running iOS 14.3 or later, iPadOS 14.3 or later, macOS Big Sur 11.1 or later, watchOS 7.2 or later, or tvOS 14.3 or later.

Not even standard bluetooth.

CubsFan10602• 6 years ago

I suspect that's referring to the "additional" features. If they are like the smaller airpods, they'll pair with any bluetooth device.

lostgame4• 6 years ago

Is there still latency?

E.G. when I open GarageBand, and hit a piano key - is there still a bloody whole second delay before I hear it in my ‘AirPods Pro’ with a ‘custom’ W1 chip on a device supposedly made for creatives?

No, really. For creators, this might be the worst value proposition I’ve ever seen. $550 USD for headphones that can’t operate without latency.

If it wasn’t for the wheels or the stand on the Mac Pro, I would say this is the worst value proposition I’ve seen, period.

I’ve seen mock-ups of an iPhone 13 without a headphone jack. Will they just stop offering GarageBand, or any other music creation apps?

Apple’s hit a new low. For real.

eXpl0it3r• 6 years ago

All Bluetooth headphones have some delays. If you want no delay, then you should really be looking at other options. But maybe the Apple ones have a larger delay.

dbbk5• 6 years ago

I don't think you are ever going to have zero-latency Bluetooth, whatever brand you buy. Just use a cable.

lostgame4• 6 years ago

Sure. Oh, wait. I can't, not with these more than $500 headphones.

It's honestly just embarrassing.

whywhywhywhy3• 6 years ago

a ‘custom’ W1 chip on a device supposedly made for creatives?

According to Apple Bloggers creatives are a small market and really Apple is about serving the 99% not you and the Pro doesn't really mean for Professionals and all the other arguments that get wheeled out when this stuff starts to fall short.

lostgame4• 6 years ago

> the Pro doesn't really mean for Professionals

That is a problem. That it is continually brought up to the point that you're bringing it up in advance in attempt to dismiss it means it's so much of a problem that it shouldn't be dismissed.

The branding is just wrong. No, it's not an 'iPad Pro', if I can't run 'Logic Pro', Apple's own 'Pro' software on it. It's not a 'MacBook Pro', if it has the same goddamn SOC as the MacBook Air. (You can order an Air with the identical 8-core processor as the Pro)

A consumer could easily make the mistake of buying an iPad Pro, reasonably thinking it could run Logic Pro, only to find out that it can't.

AlanYx5• 6 years ago

If latency is a concern, you can actually switch to using these via a wired (non-Bluetooth) connection as well. There's bound to be some minimal latency due to the DSP, but an order of magnitude lower than via Bluetooth.

kossTKR2• 6 years ago

I have no idea why people are downvoting you. I think these headphones look awesome but BT latency is beyond ridiculous - i can currently game on a server in 4K 60hz that's a about 600 miles away with 16ms of latency via WIFI from button press to "already decoded 4k video on my screen" on an old laptop (Shadow-PC, stadia like service).

That you can't get low bitrate audio decoded in less than 300ms less than a metre away is absolutely absurd above taken into consideration.

lostgame4• 6 years ago

The people who are downvoting me have clearly never tried GarageBand on an iPhone with wireless headphones.

I'd be alright with 200ms. That they prioritized going wireless so, so intensely, and completely; fully ignored this issue is absolute tripe.

These are about as useful as those $900 Mac Pro wheels that have no lock and thusly are only even effective if you have a flat floor.

Similarly, these headphones only work if you want to listen to audio - for any creative use whatsoever any given pair of headphones is better.

I just don't get Apple anymore.

SigmundA• 6 years ago

Really love my AirPods pro but need more battery life, but not a big fan of over the ear and that price...

However if they can really deliver on quality, battery life and comfort for me $549 is worth it now days with WFH and using my AirPods constantly.

mabbo2• 6 years ago

Remember the days when Apple was breaking new ground, pushing the limits? The iPod was fundamentally a game changer in the music space. The iPhone caught Blackberry with their pants down and they never recovered. Macbooks were a level up in so many ways to their competitors.

It was worth paying extra for the device Apple was selling because everyone else was years behind them.

Now it's wireless headphones with technologies that have all been done before, for more than $500. Or the same iPhone as last year, with a slightly better processor. Why pay more for that? I mean, sure, they seem high quality enough- but $549 level high quality?

Come on Apple, surprise me. Make me feel like the iPod announcement again.

Cthulhu_2• 6 years ago

And (at least in my recollection), Apple's devices - like the ipod mini / nano - weren't THAT expensive, compared to the rest of the market and what they offered in terms of storage space and the like.

The new generation of Macs are also err... reasonably priced for the performance? I think? I mean if they really do beat high end Macbook Pros on the same (real life) workload, they're offering a ton of value for money.

jaimex2• 6 years ago

Why? They know people will buy whatever they make regardless.

stetrain8• 6 years ago

Man it's been a whole 3 weeks since the M1 Macs shipped and now we're back to "Remember when Apple did exciting things?"

meragrin_2• 6 years ago

What's exciting about the M1 Macs? Personally, I've never been excited about anything from Apple. Everything always seems to be about locking you into their stuff. If it excites you, good for you. It is not for me and it is not for a lot of people.

mabbo2• 6 years ago

Actually, you know what? You're right. That is exciting.

I'm letting my pessimism get the better of me (and am rightfully being downvoted for it).

dijit4• 6 years ago

For... the very little that it’s worth, these must have been in development for a long time given that I remember reading a patent 4 years ago from Apple that was for over-ear transparency mode.

As much as it’s an evolution of the AirPods Pro and doesn’t do anything completely new, you can’t say that innovation wasn’t driven here.

The price point is pretty dire though.

mirthflat83• 6 years ago

They literally just released M1 macbooks a couple weeks ago lmao

saagarjha5• 6 years ago

with technologies that have all been done before

Done before because they put it in their AirPods?

bserge2• 6 years ago

The AirPods seemed pretty ground breaking. Afaik, Apple was the first to release such earphones.

And people buy their stuff, so they're doing something right (mostly marketing heh).

I've been looking at the Magic Trackpad, which is pretty niche and doesn't get much attention.

swiley2• 6 years ago

So the headphone jack in the pinephone is worth $550... that means the phone is worth -$350.

weakwire• 6 years ago

Any idea how they charge? Is it usb-c lighting or wireless?

timemct• 6 years ago

It looks like they come with a USB-C to Lightning cable, so one can assume that the headphones have a Lightning port on 'em for charging.

clolege16• 6 years ago

Is it possible that they might actually be able to accept an audio signal over the cable as well?

It would be nice for those that have lower-latency needs.

bouke2• 6 years ago

Somewhere down the product page:

Simply charge via Lightning connector.

reedf1• 6 years ago

Using the gyroscope and accelerometer in AirPods Max and iPhone or iPad, spatial audio tracks the motion of a user’s head as well as the device, compares the motion data, then remaps the sound field so it stays anchored to the device, even as the user’s head moves.

I'm not sure I want this? What does this actually mean?

decafninja• 6 years ago

It sounds like an unnecessary overengineered feature to me.

Could be something Apple is testing and "pre-staging" for the future though. VR/AR?

scoopertrooper2• 6 years ago

Could be fun playing a gyroscopically controlled video game on an iPad. You'd turn your body to the right, the in-game camera would pan to the right, and so would your ear's position within the sound scape. I'd imagine that could have quite an immersive effect.

whywhywhywhy3• 6 years ago

I just presumed it was existing work from the AR goggles that shipped early because the goggles are not ready yet.

No idea why you'd create it otherwise.

akmarinov4• 6 years ago

They have it on the AirPods Pro as well, basically it makes it seem that the audio comes from your iPhone or audio source, even when you move.

It’s cool but I’m not sure why it exists.

peteretep5• 6 years ago

It means surround sound in headphones

akmarinov4• 6 years ago

No, surround sound is a different thing.

This actively makes it seem like the sound is coming from a certain place, even though you have headphones on.

CubsFan10602• 6 years ago

Imagine wearing them, watching a tv show on your ipad. When you turn your head, it still seems like the sound is coming from the direction of your ipad.

Also used for surround sound, so if you turn your head, the "center channel" still is focused on the screen, and surround sound is where it would be if there were actual speakers behind you.

dijit4• 6 years ago

It will sound like the band is physically located in front of you even when you turn your head.

The same way when you’re outside and you hear a car, and you turn away from the car the sound dampens. The same will be true of music played through these headphones.

xandyalexg• 6 years ago

I believe the spatial audio feature is only for supported video playback (eg. some content from Disney+, Apple TV+). It’s surprisingly immersive actually.

DerJacques• 6 years ago

It's actually a nice feature that has been available on Airpods Pro as well. The feature makes it feel like the sound is actually coming out of the iPhone / iPad / etc. When you turn your head, the sound source stays the same.

Note that the Airpods don't actually know where your device is located. It simply sets a "base orientation" when the sound is started. This base orientation is updated when you keep your head in a new position for a longer time ("resetting" the approximated position of your device).

ChrisRR5• 6 years ago

But why? Surely the point of headphones is that the sound is right in your ears and not coming out of a small device in a specific direction

skibz• 6 years ago

The direction from which you perceive the audio to originate will be based on the orientation of your head.

fabatka• 6 years ago

Reading this I imagined that if you start listening somewhere and move, it simulates distancing from the imaginary sound source (which of course doesn't make any sense). So if you go out of the room with your headphones on, you won't hear the music anymore haha

scoopertrooper2• 6 years ago

I think it means that if you move your head within a 3D sound space it'll sound as though you've turned your head relative to the source. The source being some sound emitter on the sound stage (not the iPhone).

strombofulous• 6 years ago

Sounds super useful for VR/AR

mcintyre1994• 6 years ago

AirPods Max come with a soft, slim Smart Case that puts AirPods Max in an ultralow power state that helps to preserve battery charge when not in use.

This is a bit confusing, why would you need an ultralow power state for your headphones? Is this just so you don't have to turn them on and off? It seems less convenient to put them in and out of a bag than to just turn them off (and preferably fold them) when you're not using them if you need to stretch the battery life.

stetrain8• 6 years ago

I'm guessing the case has a magnet that tells the headphones to turn off completely, instead of being in standby looking for a sensor to indicate you have put them on.

I agree though that the case doesn't seem like the best way to accomplish it. Put a switch on them, or allow them to fold in such a way that the folding/unfolding can power on the device.

ziml775• 6 years ago

It could just mean ultra low power in the same sense as any other modern device. Sitting in a state where it can react to a power button press.

diebeforei4856• 6 years ago

Maybe a Find My iPad style feature? Using their crowdsourced bluetooth-based system.

lma21• 6 years ago

A few months ago, I experienced sort of an inflection point regarding the love I had for Apple products when my iPhone broke for no reason whatsoever: it worked perfectly during the day, no physical scratch or anything, woke up and I noticed that the phone was hot, i opened it, tried to close some apps and I noticed that it's quite slow. I opened the settings and kept getting notification popups regarding storage and saying that the storage is full. I decided to reboot, and the iPhone did not start after that. No reboot, restore, no safe recovery, nothing worked. Took it to Apple Support, told me the same things I found online "hardware failure" and proposed to "fix" it by buying a new phone of the same (2.5 year old) model for $570.

Nope.

I'll never buy an 'un-repairable' headset for $549.

nojito3• 6 years ago

I'll never buy an 'un-repairable' headset for $549.

What other headphones are repairable at that price point?

diffeomorphism4• 6 years ago

Pretty much all of them?

emsy3• 6 years ago

A lot of high-end headphones have interchangeable earpads, cables and sometimes even headbands.

formerly_proven2• 6 years ago

Beyerdynamic cans for ~120 €: replaceable padding, replaceable headband, replaceable cord, replaceable transducers. Only the last two need tools.

hprotagonist• 6 years ago

extremely high end audio gear can usually be dissembled down to its constituent parts and rebuilt from scratch.

usually because it’s for industry professionals who thrash their gear pretty hard.

mrkeen• 6 years ago

I'm not sure what the price point adds to it. Maybe headsets less than $100 are to be considered disposable?

Most of my headsets have detachable XLR cables, and some of them have replaceable ear cushions too.

Last week I took the ear cushions off my AKG Q701 (5 years old?), put them through the washing machine, and they came out great.

bouke2• 6 years ago

Sounds like the APFS issues I have been having on my iMac. Once the disk is full, the device won't boot anymore. Removing files doesn't work "rm: disk is full". The only solution is to format the drive and start over. Have you tried DFU restore, if that's even a thing anymore?

vishnugupta• 6 years ago

proposed to "fix" it by buying a new phone of the same (2.5 year old) model for $570.

My first gen MacBook Air's display (the LED backlight to be precise) broke down due to coffee spill. Took it to Apple store, the estimated repair price was almost twice the original purchase price MacBook Air. I didn't know what to say!

pi-err• 6 years ago

Not sure this is the weakest link in value-for-money for Apple products. Like many people I know, my iPhones have been changed for no fee, outside warranty, for minor or major issues.

I'd say it's more about Apple moving from a yearly/bi-yearly iPhone renewal goal to a 2-3 years calendar, with now lucrative gadgets to buy in between. Fine by me: just get the long lasting core products and then pick what you want/need.

crispyporkbites• 6 years ago

Yes these are expensive, but I understand that these will work seamlessly with your iphone, macbook etc. Compared to my bluetooth Sony headphones, where pairing is always hit and miss, I can see why someone wearing headphones all day and tranistioning between apple devices would see this as a reasonable purchase.

Plus you get the virtue signalling of being "rich"

stetrain8• 6 years ago

I have the Sony XM4s which support multi device pairing.

It works fairly well, but every time a new device connects the headphones say loudly into your ear

"BLUETOOTH. DEVICE. TWO. CONNECTED."

... over whatever you were listening to.

And you can't turn that feature off or replace it with a simple tone.

lethologica6• 6 years ago

This is the only reason I'm interested in buying these despite the price. Pairing my original Bose QC35's to my Apple devices is annoying and sometimes requires a seperate app all together just to get to work. Seamless pairing across all of my devices is a huge plus for me.

mgkimsal• 6 years ago

Let me connect multiple to a MacBook and that's our home theater system listening done...

jarym• 6 years ago

I'm sure they're great. But outta my budget.

I'm very happy with my Sony WH-1000XM4 that are about $200 cheaper.

llbowers• 6 years ago

I wonder if this will eat into their Beats market. What is Apple’s long term play with Beats anyway?

These are beautifully designed and no doubt they will pair seamlessly with other Apple devices, but that price tag seems...audacious to put it nicely.

maguay• 6 years ago

They may be taking Beats low market, as this year’s Beats Flex have AirPod tech at $49, leaving Apple branded headphones with the premium market.

uptown• 6 years ago

According to some reports, they plan to introduce a lower-end "Sport" version eventually: https://twitter.com/jon_prosser/status/1314485686809120769

Not sure how that factors into their Beats strategy though, but prices would basically be converging at that point.

ape4• 6 years ago

We just invented headphones - its almost like an April Fool's joke. (After the 737 Max crashes I would have thought "Max" would be depreciated)

wincy2• 6 years ago

I mean they sell the iPhone 12 Pro Max, it’s consistent with the rest of Apple’s current branding.

engineer_22• 6 years ago

Re: Max

I thought the same thing - but I guess Apple is exceptional.

ChrisRR5• 6 years ago

"Stunning"? God I hate apple's marketing BS

Just like whenever they call any minor upgrade "revolutionary"

clustrfunk• 6 years ago

Not the biggest fan of the design nor the lack of options for colors. Also, no further technical specs makes absolutely hard to justify the hefty price point.

jc__denton2• 6 years ago

That price is ... insane. I think the only saving grace will be spatial audio and if it's waterproof. They also seem a bit, well, ugly for an Apple product.

I was patiently waiting for these. I bought (and loved) the original AirPods. I really wanted noise cancellation for flights, but the AirPods Pro hurt my ears no matter what I tried. I waited through each Apple "one more thing," hoping these would surface. I eventually went with Sony's WH-1000XM4s. The Bluetooth is a little slow, but they're pretty stellar otherwise.

bitcharmer12• 6 years ago

The price point is not insane as long as you find enough idiots to buy them at this price level.

perardi2• 6 years ago

I am a total apologist for the price of the AirPods and AirPods Pro.

I have tried a lot of wireless earbuds. Jabra, Samsung, Jaybirds, Anker…and none of them have the combination of bullet-proof pairing, keeping a connection, audio quality†, and sound cancelling†. †(AirPods Pro, for these.)

But hoo boy, $550 is a lot for more traditional headphones. The price premium for earbuds feels right to me, as you have to do the engineering to jam as much battery, antenna, and circuitry into a teeny tiny space as possible. But big ol’ can headphones? C’mon, you have so much more volume to work with, it should make them easier to design and manufacture, not harder.

londons_explore2• 6 years ago

bullet-proof pairing, keeping a connection, audio quality

That'll be because Apple products use a custom protocol to iPhones, whereas all other brands have to use basic bluetooth, which has crappy sound quality, arbitrary restrictions, poor handling of weak signals, lots of delay, and is hard to pair.

Apples walled garden doesn't allow third parties to design or use their own protocols, or use apples protocols, so it's far from a level playing field.

enw• 6 years ago

Irregardless of the platform, is there any other brand with better Bluetooth UX than Apple?

sudosysgen12• 6 years ago

All of the other brands on Non-iPhone use AptX and AptX HD, which works quite well.

But yes, on iPhone Apple exploits their position to kneecap competitors.

nihonde• 6 years ago

You can say the same thing about Sony devices. This is just ecosystem games.

king_magic2• 6 years ago

I paid $349 (I think) for my Bose quiet comfort headphones, and they are good - but there are flaws that I wouldn’t be opposed to seeing corrected for a higher price. To each their own I suppose.

ziml775• 6 years ago

I think most people here have their doubts that they will actually be an upgrade over the QC35 or the WH1000XM4. They'll undoubtedly have a better pairing experience and the head tracked spatial audio is unique among over-ears, but there's a chance of losing in sound quality, noise cancellation ability (active & passive), comfort, and battery life. Also based on phrasing at the bottom of the page it's possible that they will only work with Apple products. We'll have to wait and see how they compare.

leokennis6• 6 years ago

I'm totally in agreement with you. Sony, Bose etc. show that you can build a fantastic pair of noise cancelling "prosumer" headphones in the $250-350 range.

I'll accept a $50 markup for Apple's tight integration and marketing. That's $400.

$550 (or, in Europe, $775...) is a ridiculous price.

perardi2• 6 years ago

Whew, I forgot I was looking at the US price…up here in the frozen tundra of Canada, they’re $880.27 after taxes.

Shivetya• 6 years ago

Cost got me as well but what gets me is the weight, nearly a pound on your head. No thank you.

(13.6 ounces, 384 grams)

pvg2• 6 years ago

They're not that far off higher-end over-the-ear ANC/wireless headphones, give or take Apple's brand premium (which many other makers of expensive things also happily apply). That's not to say they are cheap but it feels closer to existing market pricing than $250 wireless earbuds - a move Apple pulled off seemingly successfully.

freeone3000• 6 years ago

If by "not far off", you mean "over $200 more". For consumer devices: The Sony 1000XM4s are $270. Bose QC35 IIs are $265. You'd have to go up to pro-grade gear, such as the M&Ds or Beyerdynamic Amirons, to match this price. Maybe Apple headphones are pro grade, but the AirPods are not, so I don't think they're going for that market segment.

gtwAahcTEo• 6 years ago

Bullet-proof pairing, keeping a connection, audio quality†, and sound cancelling†. †(AirPods Pro, for these.)

Guess we are ignoring the fact that this bullet proof pairing and keeping connection etc work only with Macs and iphones. Anyone here care to list how these perform if you have an android phone/tablet, a windows PC, a kindle etc etc. Or do I have to buy another pair of headphones to use with those devices?

wpm• 6 years ago

I’m sure they work as well as any other AirPods pair to PCs and other devices: just the same as any other Bluetooth device.

asdff• 6 years ago

This is the early adopter fee. Wait for black friday or some other steep sale. I snagged some Airpod Pros for $169 at the last one, much less hesitation hitting buy at that price.

wincy2• 6 years ago

AirPods Max require Apple devices running iOS 14.3 or later, iPadOS 14.3 or later, macOS Big Sur 11.1 or later, watchOS 7.2 or later, or tvOS 14.3 or later.

Wait, can these only be used on Apple devices? Or is there a Bluetooth fallback. I guess to spend so much you’d be a little crazy to just want a vanilla Bluetooth experience.

abrowne• 6 years ago

https://www.apple.com/airpods-max/specs/#footnote-8:

AirPods Max can be used as Bluetooth headphones with Apple devices using earlier software and with non-Apple devices, but functionality is limited.

Which is the same thing Apple says for the "basic" AirPods FWIW: https://www.apple.com/airpods-2nd-generation/specs/#footnote...

wmeredith2• 6 years ago

It's not vanilla bluetooth, but you can just plugin into an audio jack with a lightning adapter: https://www.apple.com/shop/product/MMX62AM/A/lightning-to-35...

layoutIfNeeded• 6 years ago

incredible high-fidelity audio

You mean a headphone that doesn't support lossless audio? Lol!

lethologica6• 6 years ago

Give your average person that will buy these the same song in .flac and .mp3 and they won't notice a difference anyway.

willbutler• 6 years ago

This. There doesn't seem to be any mention of a lossless codec over Bluetooth 5.0. Why spend so much effort on sound quality on the device if the source is lossy?

nbzso3• 6 years ago

Apple: Made in China - 549 USD, no thanks. If I need something that is "Max" I will buy this - made in Germany. https://www.amazon.de/beyerdynamic-Amiron-Over-Ear-Kopfh%C3%...

People still don't get this thing. Its simple : Big Corporations are taking big profit by using China as manufacturing, China is not a democracy, China is not free market economy, buying products completely made abroad is killing off a middle class and financing oppressive regime of CCP. Big companies have enough cash to relocate manufacturing in democratic countries.

As a consumer, you can search for products that are made locally or with minimum Chinese parts.

m0002• 6 years ago

Practically, not choosing China at this moment is impractical, to say the least. But I would applaud sites doing teardowns if they started cataloging the provenance of the major components used in each product. This would be a first step to allow consumers make more informed purchases in the future.

bserge2• 6 years ago

Sadly, I think many people get it, they just don't care.

cactus20939• 6 years ago

I guess it might surprise you to learn that China is a big place capable of manufacturing both high quality and cheaper, low quality products,

There’s a really interesting Netflix documentary American Factory that depicts one particular example, and puts on display a lot of the complicated factors you’re talking about. But the interesting thing is after like 2 years of training and tweaking processes, the American location of this auto glass factory just can’t for the life of them produce a product as high quality as the Chinese factory.

See also: most other Apple products, for more examples of high quality things manufactured in China.

Also, call me crazy but why should I care about random Midwestern Americans any more than random Chinese people I’ve never met? Globalization has raised an astounding number of people in China out of poverty in the past 20 years which is an amazing feat.

Not wanting to support the country because of the governments human rights abuses is totally fair, but you seem to be mixing that in as just one reason among all the other protectionist rhetoric.

Lastly, to pretend that companies are giant infinite pools of money that are choosing to hold out on everyone is just silly. If they were to manufacture things in more expensive places, then you’d be looking at $700 headphones instead of $550. If you’d rather support other companies, then great, do that! That’s the beauty of having so many choices.

nbzso3• 6 years ago

Yep you are right, I have a consumer choice. I just linked to high end audio product manufactured in Germany, where you cant use slaves to build for you on a thin cost margin and then sell on high profit.

And to be more pro consumer choice, here you can see competitive products with prices: https://heavy.com/tech/best-high-end-headphones/

Terretta• 6 years ago

Interesting choice of 40mm driver instead of 50mm.

That can make a mass-ive difference in sense of realism for lows. Perhaps they think the Adaptive EQ makes up for it.

I’ve been disappointed in headphones that aren’t 50mm for electronica, jazz, pop, movies, and gaming, fine with 40mm for classical, choral, and television.

Forge36• 6 years ago

I have a $10 pair of in-ear headphones, I also have Bose QC15, and a ~1000 put into a home theater system.

I love music. The convince (and lack of guilt over breaking numerous $10 pairs) wins out, and I don't notice enough for it to matter.

eertami• 6 years ago

$549!?

That puts it in the same price category as: Sennheiser HD660S, Audeze LCD-1, Beyerdynamic DT1770/1990, Grado RS2e, among many many others.

Honestly, I don't understand why you would buy these when there are a lot of established professional audio companies offering better sound at a cheaper price. At least airpods have a unique selling point in their portability and ux but I don't see how this benefits over-ear cans.

clolege16• 6 years ago

Are there any other offerings for wireless spatial audio? That would be the main selling point for me.

butterisgood• 6 years ago

Airpods Pro were upgraded for spatial audio (firmware I guess), but they're earbuds.

throwaway2873913• 6 years ago

I'm surprised spatial audio is a selling point for anyone on a product this expensive. Have you tried it? I have AirPods Pro and I spent £6 on a month of Disney+ just to try out the spatial audio feature when it came out (which already felt fairly ridiculous but what can I say, the HN comments were too enticing). I used it for 5 minutes, rotated my head around a bunch to maximize the effect, thought "hm, that's pretty neat" and then went on with my month never using it again. It really felt like a gimmick to me but I'm wondering if I'm missing something now...

aphextron3• 6 years ago

Honestly, I don't understand why you would buy these when there are a lot of established professional audio companies offering better sound at a cheaper price.

Because it's Apple. The same reason people pay the Apple premium for anything else. It's the brand, the aesthetic, the ecosystem, and the signaling.

chrisseaton4• 6 years ago

The same reason people pay the Apple premium for anything else. It's the brand, the aesthetic, the ecosystem, and the signaling.

Apple is high quality. You're trying to make it sound cynical and flimsy, but it's not. It's consistent demonstrated high quality.

jamesrcole• 6 years ago

Are there any other laptops with trackpads as good as the Apple ones? Maybe there are these days, I don’t know, but there definitely didn’t used to be.

khalilravanna2• 6 years ago

Assuming these compare in fidelity of sound, I think it’s a no brainer for a lot of people. Likely works seamlessly with apple products similar to other airpods and, unlike those other cans, doesn’t require a proper sound system or external amp to drive them.

That being said, the fact that they stipulate they only work with apple products is a bit insane to me. I’ll stick with my wireless Sennheisers that I have to charge once a month thanks.

EDIT: Here’s the bit about them being Apple only. Hopefully it changes.

  AirPods Max require Apple devices running iOS 14.3 or later, iPadOS 14.3 or later, macOS Big Sur 11.1 or later, watchOS 7.2 or later, or tvOS 14.3 or later.

jb1991• 6 years ago

the fact that they stipulate they only work with apple products is a bit insane to me.

If (and a big if, though also a possible if) they are truly exceptional and better than the competition, the desire to own these could funnel into buying more Apple products in general, so you can use them. Also, if they are that great, non-Apple users will find another reason to switch to Apple and it will boost the overall brand.

So, not an unreasonable idea. But it is bold.

akmarinov4• 6 years ago

Where does it say that they only work with Apple products?

j2bax• 6 years ago

I imagine that like the Airpods they require an Apple device to take full advantage of all the features but they can still be used as a generic Bluetooth headset on other operating systems.

allwein• 6 years ago

Ah, that's from the Press Release, which is for a more mainstream audience who maybe would expect all features to work otherwise.

From the tech specs page on the product itself though:

AirPods Max can be used as Bluetooth headphones with Apple devices using earlier software and with non-Apple devices, but functionality is limited.

nallic• 6 years ago

The Airpod Pros works with other devices - but they seem to have a lot of issues though. Loosing sync between each unit and loosing sound and needing reconnect all the time.

That's my personal experience when using them with Windows 10 and Android devices. No issues when using them with Apple devices.

isthatsoup• 6 years ago

Even if it changes, don't ever buy an Apple product to use with a non-apple product. I got burned by this with the powerbeats pro to use with my Android phone, which has ended up as the single worst electronics purchase I have ever made.

They have a significantly reduced feature set when used on Android vs Iphone, and they just don't work well at all.

Really glad Apple decided to buy Beats so that they could close off their audio technology to Apple customers only.

bitexploder3• 6 years ago

How do we know they offer better sound? I’ll wait for some reviews. Apple doesn’t enter a product category like this lightly or without careful price setting analysis. This is almost exactly the reaction people had to AirPods when they were announced.

bussierem3• 6 years ago

Apple doesn't enter a product category like this [...] without careful price setting analysis

https://www.apple.com/shop/product/MWUG2LL/A/pro-stand

lookdangerous• 6 years ago

I would love to read that thread

staz• 6 years ago

they sell wheels for $700...

corobo6• 6 years ago

Bought by companies that know $700 to be a pretty short meeting.

Don't mix up B2B and B2C to make a point haha. Different beasts. If you think that's expensive you should see some of the public sector deals

konschubert• 6 years ago

Unfortunately all of these competitor products don't have the W1 chip and are treated by iOS and MacOS as second-grade citizens.

But at $600 after tax, I think a lot of people will decide to put up with that.

artembugara• 6 years ago

Why people buy MacBooks when there're Dell? Why iPhone when there're Huawei. Etc, etc.

Because it is Apple. When your Audeze will break can you just pop up to the nearest Apple store to get support? Can you easily connect them to your iPhone, Mac, iPod?

cromka5• 6 years ago

offering better sound

That's a bit presumptive. You don't know how these sound, yet. HD660S is based on 650S from the 2000s. Knowing Apple, they were able to innovate a bit here, so let's give them the benefit of the doubt.

That having said, I also don't expect them to sound better than any of which you mentioned.

cmiller1• 6 years ago

Similarly I'm seeing several comments in this thread saying other companies offer better headphones for cheaper. We simply don't know how these perform yet.

tester34• 6 years ago

haha, indeed.

minimal wage in my country is around the price of those headphones :D

mmaunder• 6 years ago

These are not professional reference headphones. The goal isn’t predictable EQ for mixing music that will be played on a huge range of outputs. These are consumer headphones that provide wealth and status signaling for the wearer with enough audiophile “reasons” to pretend that is not the case.

oblio5• 6 years ago

It's not only that. It's also peace of mind when you're not knowledgeable about the product category you're looking at.

Most other big brands have frequent howlers: Google, Samsung, Sony, etc.

m12k• 6 years ago

better sound

Technically we don't know that yet. I mean, I'm not impressed with the price/value of e.g. Beats, so I'm not super hopeful, but I'll still withhold judgment until the reviews are in.

heroHACK17• 6 years ago

Honestly, I don't understand why you would buy these when there are a lot of established professional audio companies offering better sound at a cheaper price.

Have you tried them? How do they sound? Do you have a time machine that takes you to Dec. 15?

jdxcode2• 6 years ago

Audiophiles say Apple fans only buy based on brand and he’s over here saying the headphones sound worse when nobody has even tried them.

stef253• 6 years ago

My defence would be that Apple isn't an audio company and although they're great at everything they do, I doubt they can catch up with Sennheiser, Grado, Audio Technica etc when it comes to pure audio quality.

Where they're better is probably connectivity, noise cancellation (which is still garbage imho), integration with their hardware.

Same with their Homepod - it was innovative not in absolute audio quality but in the way it was omnidirectional and could "fill a room" with sound (if I remember correctly, from having read a review) and connectivity. If you just want great audio for your vinyl, CD or Flac collection then you don't get a Homepod. $300 worth of HiFi gear would be better.

tootie• 6 years ago

Completely expected for Apple. Look at the top of the mass market, copy their features, embed it in the iOS ecosystem, make the case white and silver, charge 25% premium.

elicash6• 6 years ago

I HATE the standard Bluetooth experience. If reviews show choosing and switching devices is a better experience with these headphones, that’s worth paying something extra for.

310260• 6 years ago

I agree with that in the case of something like the AirPods Pro but not necessarily for $549. Superb audio quality would have to be the main selling point at that price.

corobo6• 6 years ago

I dunno if the price is worth it or if it's mostly Apple Magic Pricing TM but honestly having a virtual assistant on hand is pretty good for day to day use - I'd love that in an over-ear.

Combine that with wireless and presumably Apple's headphone device switching ability and I'd be tempted if not broke

better sound at a cheaper price

Oh nice you've tested them then? How's the sound for mainstream non-gold-plated ears?

falcolas2• 6 years ago

Probably absurdly bass heavy with muddled mids, based on other Apple and beats headphones. So I’m sure the mainstream will love them.

acqq2• 6 years ago

Does anybody know if any product of "established professional audio companies" has built in "gyroscope and accelerometer" and can remap "the sound field so it stays anchored to the device, even as the user’s head moves"?

I guess some virtual reality headgear has something like that, but which audio headphones?

And which audio headphones of "established professional audio companies" have four microphones built in and the chip with "10 audio cores" to adapt? Including one microphone directed to the ear, not to the outside. I guess some could have something close to that, but which?

First to know if we compare apples and oranges, then to learn about the alternatives.

bhandziuk6• 6 years ago

"the sound field so it stays anchored to the device, even as the user’s head moves"

What does this mean? I genuinely don't get it.

skor• 6 years ago

Apple products are now "for the (wealthy) masses". Unfortunately they focus less on professional users. Beyerdynamic DT-1990 are great headphones btw but I don't think Ill see anyone walking around with that :)

gwbas1c• 6 years ago

If you only use Apple devices, the way they integrate with your mac / iphone is probably better.

But, given that these only work with Apple devices...

I'm going to be honest, I have a set of Beyerdynamic DT 770 pro's collecting dust right next to me as I type this. (I used to use them when I worked in an office.) I have some 3M "hearing protection" muffs that I bought for mowing the lawn, and they happen to have bluetooth headphones in them. They aren't as good as the DTs, but they are pretty darn close; and good enough that I prefer them when I travel to the DTs.

omega3• 6 years ago

It's the same question for 20 years.

tompccs• 6 years ago

$499!?

That puts it in the same price category as: Palm Pilot, Blackberry Curve and Nokia N95, among many many others.

Honestly, I don't understand why you would buy these when there are a lot of established professional phone companies offering better phones at a cheaper price.

jefftk• 6 years ago

The iPhone was very different, and in many ways much better, than its competitors. I'm not seeing that here?

arbitrage• 6 years ago

Because their bluetooth implementation is garbage compared to apple's.

airstrike2• 6 years ago

That puts it in the same price category as: Sennheiser HD660S, Audeze LCD-1, Beyerdynamic DT1770/1990, Grado RS2e, among many many others.

It looks like none of these are wireless, so I don't think the comparison is accurate.

jojobas5• 6 years ago

Then there's Sony WH-1000XM4.

gdubs• 6 years ago

Apple has been very successful at leveraging a “complete the set” psychology among the faithful. When you’re happy with all of your other Apple gear, it’s easy to impute — to borrow a favorite Steve Jobs word — the level of quality you’re accustomed to onto a new product you’re unfamiliar with.

Apple has ALWAYS operated at a premium margin, and appealed to users who want quality, but also don’t want to spend time comparison shopping laundry lists of features and components.

These will appeal to people working from home, just in time for Christmas when people are willing to spend a little. With a pandemic raging, if you’re in the market for headphones you can’t exactly go out and try a bunch of pairs on. (Guitar Center is going bankrupt, if I recall.)

So people will likely be happy to know there’s a product made by Apple that fills an additional niche — so they won’t have to give it much thought and will know that it’ll probably be of similar quality to what they’re used to with other Apple gear.

hhjinks• 6 years ago

It's scary to me how precisely this post describes me, and how I haven't even been cognisant of it.

cactus20939• 6 years ago

These are in a completely different category than pro audio headphones, they are wireless with active noise cancellation.

As someone that owns a couple of the high end models you mention, and uses my Bose qc3 headphones every day, if you don’t get why that’s a difference all I can say is I highly recommend trying it. If you don’t want to pay $550, then get the Bose or Sony equivalents.

All the audio quality in the world doesn’t do you much good walking down a noisy street, on a plane, or even sitting in a noisy open office. I’ll happily take pretty good sound + wireless and noise canceling over great sound in these environments.

What I’m guessing Apple is trying to sell based on this price point is sound on the same level of the high end models you mention, with the convenience of wireless noise canceling, plus the (gimmick?) of spatial audio. I’m very curious to try them at some point to see if they deliver.

eigenvalue3• 6 years ago

Besides assuming that Apple can’t match those other (very small, likely undercapitalized) audio companies in terms of sounds quality— something I sort of doubt considering that Apple probably spent more in R&D on these than those companies have had in total cumulative revenues combined— it also assumes that it’s all about the sound quality. As someone who just ordered these, I wear noise canceling headphones (currently Bose QC from nearly 5 years ago) for several hours a day while I work, and I can tell you that I care much more about comfort and noise canceling performance. I just assume great sound since that has been available for decades now in decent headphones. I remember buying Grado SR80s back in 2002, and they sounded great. Unfortunately, they hurt my ears after 30 minutes and everyone around me could hear my music. Also, they had a thick, heavy cable. Sound quality isn’t everything.

Considering that Apple just made Intel look like a bunch of fools despite Intel making more processors for longer than just about anyone, at this point it’s silly to be so skeptical of Apple when they introduce a product like this after years of effort.

bsagdiyev• 6 years ago

When Sennheiser is very small and/or undercapitalized and therefore must know nothing about audio... I really hope you’re either joking or just uninformed.

mnw21cam• 6 years ago

I personally would be very interested in hearing your opinion on how good the noise cancellation is with these headphones, compared to Bose QC (which I am wearing right now). When you have them, could you comment?

I have never owned anything from Apple. However, that new CPU suddenly sounds interesting, and it may be that these headphone are suddenly interesting too, although they are double the price of the Bose ones.

callmejorge• 6 years ago

Have you tried the 700 or MX4s? In terms of comfort, is QC better?

hart_russell• 6 years ago

I'm in the same boat. I like my Sony MX3's but the experience hasn't been polished:

The touch controls aren't reliable
My bluetooth connection disconnects randomly every couple hours

I ordered the airpods pro and expect a polished experience because Apple has a track record of just that

tinco• 6 years ago

You mean the Bose Quiet Comfort and the Sony WH1000X category. None of the headphones you mention are relevant in any way.

lock-free2• 6 years ago

I'm all for shitting on overpriced products but those you list aren't the same product category.

Wireless noise cancelling headphones worth a damn are expensive. Not to mention, Apple is the only company making a headset where the mic doesn't suck and have trash fidelity when you need to speak and listen at the same time.

zeptonaut22• 6 years ago

I'd love to hear an Airpods Max mic test here. This is the only meaningful info I could find on its microphone:

With AirPods Max, voice calls and Siri commands are crisp and clear due to beam-forming microphones that block out ambient noise and focus on the user’s voice.

Mic quality has become a much higher priority for me and I think others since starting to work from home. In my opinion, high-quality voice audio helps greatly improve the quality of conversations over VC.

jojobas5• 6 years ago

Sony WH-1000XM4.

sradman• 6 years ago

$549!? ...I don't understand why you would buy these when there are a lot of established professional audio companies offering better sound at a cheaper price.

In addition to brand trust which other commenters describe, there is multi-device interoperability within the Apple ecosystem. Pairing with multiple devices is non-trivial and multi-device operation is not as seamless with non-AirPods hearables. This is about extending the AirPods user experience (UX) to an over-the-ears form factor.

Bang-for-the-Buck consumers always struggle with Apple positioning. UX is almost always the intangible factor.

hlava• 6 years ago

They must have some marketing strategy already prepared. Similar to that of Beats by Dre. Just make it popular trough popular culture (movies, music videoclips, interview with Hans Zimmer wearing these) and the kids will persuade their parents that they just need to have it. Thats how the bandwagon picks up speed.

MLpractitioner• 6 years ago

I can imagine companies buying these for employees

45ure• 6 years ago

$549!?

At this price, it is a luxury that can wait until AirPods Max 2, as I have already upgraded to XM4/Buds+/Jabra 75t this year for work and pleasure. However, at first glance, some integrated design aesthetics will provide the necessary appeal for dedicated fans e.g. the digital crown, colour scheme etc. It would be interesting to see the real world tests, and for starters, I would settle for a mini review by tubers like MKBHD.

ookblah• 6 years ago

great for those others now lol, apple effect... everyone can raise their prices now with no guilt

hbbio• 6 years ago

We are interested in the same audio gear. But they have CABLES!

Most people I know would rather want a headset without any and I suppose that wireless devices come with an array of software problems that Apple can fix better than the others (just supposing, I don't own wireless speakers myself).

jpablo• 6 years ago

My main gripe with paying $550 for headphones is, they still revert to 90s landline quality when using the microphone?

edude03• 6 years ago

yeah, why is that?

m3kw92• 6 years ago

How do people say stuff like this before they even saw a single review or even hear it?

new_realist• 6 years ago

How do you know competitors offer better sound at a cheaper price? Do you own these?

m3kw92• 6 years ago

Because the best headphones are the ones you use the most. You won’t need a portable amp to make the sound better. This is the same analogy on how the best camera is the one you have on you, and the iPhone camera does not suck.

I have a set of grados and I use them so little because of inconvenience. Instead is the AirPod pros that’s with me and use 95% of the time

hated• 6 years ago

Perhaps because when you walk into the Apple store for headphones you won't find the other brands there and these shoppers are only interested in Apple blessed products.

zepto7• 6 years ago

What makes you think the sound is better?

There is a good chance these are competitive in terms of sound quality at their price point.

redm• 6 years ago

“when there are a lot of established professional audio companies offering better sound at a cheaper price”

Have you tested these?

tlholaday• 6 years ago

... why you would buy these ...

Feature-terms: For the microphones. Benefit-terms: For comfortable all-day telephony, up to 20 hours between charges.

golergka• 6 years ago

The core 5% of their audience would just buy what they know rather then spend their time researching the market they don't know and don't have any interest in. Spending that time and attention on research would be much more expensive to them than the cost of the headphones.

And the 95% really want to signal others that their time is as expensive as of those 5%.

anonu• 6 years ago

Pricing a product is always a very hard thing. I speak from experience working at a startup and trying to understand what price the market will bear.

The beauty with Apple is they build beautiful products that people covet. They effectively create a new market and force people to re-assess what they would pay for XYZ feature. I am sure the average user would never dream of spending $500+ for a pair of headphones yesterday. Now the landscape is all different.

Its the same for the iPhone. Why do these things costs $1000? I can get most of the same features in just as nice a package with many Android phones. But still iPhone is the dominant winner in the US market.

lotsofpulp7• 6 years ago

Brand new iPhone SE is $400. Entry level iPhones have never cost more than ~$650. The entry level specs are good enough for 80% of people’s needs, and an extra $100 or $200 probably satisfies 95% of people’s needs.

I don’t see the purpose of the “$1k iPhone” meme when it’s blatantly false, and competing Android phones have also always cost around the same amount.

And what’s also been blatantly true is the amortized cost of an iPhone over its longer lifespan versus competing products has always been lower.

kelp2• 6 years ago

When Apple releases a new product and it’s not understood why people would buy it, I’m always reminded of this quote from former Palm CEO Ed Colligan when the iPhone was launched:

“We’ve learned and struggled for a few years here figuring out how to make a decent phone,” he said. “PC guys are not going to just figure this out. They’re not going to just walk in.”

Since then I’ve not wanted to bet against Apple.

The reason people will buy these is because they are part of the Apple ecosystem. I have no knowledge of this, but I’m sure their out of the box pairing experience will be much like other Apple products. Hold your phone near it and it just connects. Far more seamless than most Bluetooth pairing.

Any audio controls are built into your phone.

And typically Apple has hardware and software designed to work together. They’ve done this with the iPhone camera to completely disrupt the digital camera industry.

It’s the ecosystem plus the benefits of hardware / software integration.

ubermonkey2• 6 years ago

Yeah, that's a big part of it. I've had BT headphones before my Airpods, and I really kinda hated them all. They were just clunky and awkward to use. Airpods changed my expectation around that kind of listening.

The competition for a $549 Apple over-ear ANC headphone is, realistically, $300-$400 over-ear ANC headphones from everyone else. Because user experience and usability matter a LOT; I'd definitely pay a premium to avoid all the goofy crap that goes with "regular" Bluetooth.

jayd167• 6 years ago

Since then I’ve not wanted to bet against Apple.

Counterpoint, we're not all buying $1000 monitor stands and $700 caster wheels. Sometimes Apple is just gouging.

ubermonkey2• 6 years ago

That kind of knee-jerk rejection is just as weird as a knee-jerk promise to buy. All we know right now is that Apple has introduced wireless, ANC, over-ear headphones at a premium price.

If I were looking to spend that kind of money on headphones -- which, we should be clear, isn't that hard to do if you're serious about it -- I'd absolutely listen to these. Given Apple's general approach to usability and quality, it'd be insanely foolish to dismiss them without trying them.

Honestly, I don't understand why you would buy these when there are a lot of established professional audio companies offering better sound at a cheaper price.

This is what I'm talking about. How do you KNOW that $other_headphones sound better? The Apple model isn't even available yet.

I mean, it's dead solid clear that Apple's making a big move here. It could fail. But they tend not to fail. If they're pricing these on par with serious high-end over-ear headphones, then they expect them to be able to compete with those high-end headphones on all the points people care about in that market.

& about that: Your counterexamples aren't in Apple's target market here at all. None of them are wireless, and none of them include noise cancellation.

Moreover, the Audeze are open backed, which (for the non headphone nerds still reading) means those around you can hear what you're listening to. You get great sound that way -- lots of folks would argue that the best sounding phones in the world are all open-backed -- but it means they're terrible choices for most modern headphone applications, like in a public place or open office.

I love me some Grados, but they have the same problem.

Apple's play here is against the high end wireless, ANC product in the market, not these audiophile-only options you mention. I have a $300 pair of ANC wireless Sennheisers that I typically used on planes (ha, ha; remember travel?) or in other contexts where I really needed isolation. They're clunky to use and have weird idiosyncrasies, but they do sound better than my Airpods Pro, and they work better for long flights.

If they broke, would I consider the new Maxes? Absolutely.

ransom_rs• 6 years ago

This is what I'm talking about. How do you KNOW that $other_headphones sound better? The Apple model isn't even available yet.

I feel this part of the discussion is missing. A lot of people seem to love the HomePod for it's great audio quality at the price, and I have heard similar things for the HomePod Mini. Apple seems to be getting decent at making high quality audio equipment(per $), I feel like the quality of these headphones could be similar to the competition.

Apple for sure has a history of overcharging for certain products (remember, you can get a monitor stand for $1k), but the M1 Macbook Air is probably the best $1,000 computer by a long shot.

theincredulousk5• 6 years ago

They're not going to fail, unless you have an insanely high bar for success, and they're not going to sound like shit either. Apple wouldn't just accidentally release a terrible sounding headphone product without having people familiar with headphones listen to it.

The arguments floating around here are pointless. Will you be able to get better sounding (particularly wired) headphones for less money? yes. Just like you can get a higher performance laptop for less money than a macbook, and just like you can buy a discrete graphics card that performs better than integrated graphics (analogy to wireless w/integrated DSP and amplifier, vs. discrete)

Is the point here to have the best sounding headphones? no. There are for daily/practical use cases and pleasantly usable performance for dedicated listening and entertainment. They are primarily headphones for "routine use"/work, e.g. when your listening to music + doing some task, then taking a phone-call or joining a meeting. The same use cases people currently have noise cancelling headphones with built-in or inline mics.

For example, Bose QCs are very popular for that use case, and cost $300+. I use them for daily work and travel, and I'm an "audio person", with completely different setups (plural) for audio quality use cases, well aware that the Bose QCs are not "$300 class" headphones quality wise.

The Apples are more expensive than the QCs, but even from pictures and build materials immediately crush the QCs in build quality. My guess is that they will also beat them in sound quality. Yes they're more expensive, but tbh for the target use case, it is not difficult to justify cost for something you use 8h a day. Of course anything expensive is not in everyone's budget, but considering the target market, people talking about $200-less headphones are not priced out of the headphones, they're just trying to save money.

So, true to Apple, the increased cost doesn't really hurt their addressable market, and instead positions them a status symbol where it is actually important that they cost more than the competition. Yep.

apohn• 6 years ago

Honestly, I don't understand why you would buy these when there are a lot of established professional audio companies offering better sound at a cheaper price.

Probably because most of these companies have been "upgrading" their headphones for years, but really just making tweaks and increasing the price. So much of it is just marketing.

I'm a former headphone addict who used to own a lot of expensive headphones. I saw the progression from when $300 was expensive (if you exclude the electrostatics), to suddenly $1k is the norm for a "High End" headphone. Then $1.5K, then $2000, etc.

I'm not planning to buy the Airpods Max, but I give kudos to Apple for finally stepping up with computational audio and doing more than just making minor tweaks and marketing the hell out of it. Apple might actually push the other manufacturers to get off their ass and do some actual innovation.

alkonaut• 6 years ago

If I wanted $4-$600 over-ear headphones to go with an iPhone where phone calls and general phone integrations are an important part, then I'd seriously consider these. Otherwise not. As you say, as far as headphones go you can get better for less. But if seen as a phone headset that also has some hi fi qualities, then it makes more sense to go with the ones from Apple.

I trust Apple to make that 100% integration with my iPhone whereas I don't necessarily trust Sennheiser to. The third party ones will turn out to drop calls more frequently in iOS 15 or something similar. That's the kind of issue you are paying to avoid.

tfehring2• 6 years ago

It’s ludicrous but I’m still tempted. It seems like they uniquely offer the best UX in headphones since unlike AirPods you don’t have to intermittently take them off to charge them if you’re using them all day. “The best UX” is assuming you’ve bought into the rest of the Apple ecosystem, of course.

Eric_WVGG• 6 years ago

oh, you've heard them already? What do you think of the cups and the band, are they comfortable? What do you think of the crown control?

sombrero_guitar• 6 years ago

The Airpods Max is more comparable to something like Sony WH-1000XM4, Bose 700, or B&O Beoplay H9. You can't really compare wired openback headphones to headphones that are meant to be worn in public on the go. However, even among the wireless headphones with active noise canceling, the Airpods Max are more expensive than their competition. The closest in terms of features and price is the Beoplay H9 and that is $50-100 cheaper depending on where you buy it. To many people the extra integration with Apple products is worth paying the difference. For other people, especially those not all in on the Apple ecosystem, the cheaper competitors are a better option. However, comparing it to products in a different class is not a very good argument.

sorum4• 6 years ago

Considering how many hours per day/week most of us spend with our headphones and how many years they last, I think the price difference is marginal over its lifespan.

My Bose QC35s are almost 4 years old. My initial thought was to upgrade to the Bose 700 ($340), but the Airpods Max are $210 more expensive. If I assume 3 years before my next upgrade, this equates to $6 more per month.

The in-ear segment was a slam dunk for the AirPods Pro - no exciting options competing there (Sennheiser's True Wireless were a huge disappointment). In the wireless over-ear segment on the other hand, it is very competitive and there are great options. The H1 chip isn't that much of a leg up, compared to how well Sony, Bose and the others handle connectivity to multiple devices. It'll boil down to the basics for me: audio quality and noise cancellation - if Apple can nail those, the price increase would be worth it in my book.

thanksforthe423• 6 years ago

It's a marketing tactic. The goal is to be unaffordable, this way people create goals to buy it and show off to their friends.

This has been Apple's marketing since the 2000s.

The product quality is secondary to the price. Even the users don't want everyone to afford it. They want to be seen as unique.

throw_m239339• 6 years ago

Well it depends. Once in a while Apple makes very good products for its price (like the latest Macbook Air, the iphone 3GS back then, and a few Macbooks in early the 2010's compared to the competition) and yes for the rest it's all about beign a luxury brand, absolutely.

kipchak2• 6 years ago

The coloration of the iPhones are an impressive example of product differentiation. The lower end phones are distinguishable with a case on from the front and back by the colored bezel on the front, and by the camera arrangement on the back.

dkonofalski21• 6 years ago

offering better sound at a cheaper price

This is what drives me nuts about stuff like this. How can you even say that? There's no way that you've tried these headphones so how can you possibly say that? Apple has gotten rave reviews with regard to audio quality in the Airpods Pro and the Homepod and Homepod Mini so why wouldn't they take that expertise and put it into these?

colinmhayes3• 6 years ago

Apple has absolutely not gotten rave reviews on airpod pro sound quality. In fact that's that biggest complaint, they sound the same as normal airpods. I own airpod pros. They're great for what they are, noise cancelling true wireless that interact very well with apple products. But the sound quality leaves quite a bit to be desired.

ecf• 6 years ago

Paying an extra $200 for the H1 chip to be able to avoid professional audio companies and and their absolutely incompetent Bluetooth implementations is money well spent.

yk• 6 years ago

Apples customers don't know that. The entire strategy of Apple is, selling to people who compare a EUR 1500 MacBook to a EUR 500 HP laptop. Of course the MacBook is a lot better. Similar, these need to be a lot better than AirPods. They will be, and they will sell.

briandear• 6 years ago

How do you know they offer “better sound at a cheaper price?”

Did you listen to these yet?

pwinnski5• 6 years ago

I'm happy with my AirPods Pro, so I won't be buying these.

That said, looking beyond audio quality alone is why these exists. None of those headphones has the ease-of-syncing these will. I'm pretty sure none of those headphones support the spatial audio stuff these will. My corded Sennheiser HD280s started flaking off around the ear not too long after I bought them, while these seem like probably they'll wear better over time.

Audio quality? Yeah, I'm guessing Apple's aiming for "good enough for most people," nowhere near studio quality. But on everything else, I suspect they've nailed it, especially for people who've used AirPods or AirPods Pro and appreciate the syncing, spatial audio, etc.

darthrupert2• 6 years ago

And significantly cheaper than, say, Sennheiser HD820 or the Focal Stellia.

We cannot know whether the price is crazy before somebody has reviewed them. I'm sure we don't need to wait for long.

If it's an amazing experience, it might be a good deal. I know I would pay huge amounts of money at this stage of my life for a great experience. Like a hundred euros for a single glass of whiskey. Or hundreds of euros for a great meal. And headphones (even battery powered ones) last a whole lot longer than a shot of whiskey or a meal.

But. They're wireless, and Bluetooth 5.0. They will be Bluetooth 5.0 in 5 years, and possibly obsolete because of that. Passive headphones bought today will be just as good in 5 years, unless something weird happens in speaker technology by then.

hindsightbias2• 6 years ago

I'll predict AirPods Max will gross more income for Apple in 2021 than all those brands high-end gear combined.

bstar77• 6 years ago

While I agree that sound quality is likely much better with those headphones you listed, they all require an external dac/amp to realize that quality. For high end, wireless, noise cancelling headphones, this might be appropriately priced.

Dwolb• 6 years ago

Does everyone here realize how incredibly huge Apple's audio business is? Their Wearables, Home, and Accessories business did $30B last year. If AirPods are even 1/5th of that category, that's a $36 business.

For comparison, Sennheiser did about $1B in revenue and Bose did $3.6B.

Are are absolutely huge and capable of surpassing every single company in terms of product and audio quality.

temporallobe• 6 years ago

For the record, the best headphones in the world are the Sony MDR-7506s, which sell for less than $100 in the US. These are well-known in the audio production and musician world and are prized for their accuracy, frequency response, comfort, and output. I’ve tried plenty of other high-end cans including a few $1000+ audiophile-realm models but just didn’t connect with any of them. In fact, I’ve owned many pairs over the past 2 decades and I just keep buying these when the get too tattered. I still have my first pair and they still sound as good as the day I bought them.

rootusrootus6• 6 years ago

Apple has made excellent headphones in the past, and at a competitive price point. For a long time their IEMs were a strongly recommended option for people who wanted excellent headphones at a pretty reasonable price. It's entirely possible that these headphones will also be competitive with headphones from other established companies that sell for a higher price. This is the same company that just brought us the M1, so we know they have hired plenty of engineering talent.

texasbigdata3• 6 years ago

You can’t beat 8 drivers in one ear producing different frequency ranges in a custom sized devices made from a mould impression taken by an audiologist with 1 single cone. Sorry but no engineering talent can break the laws of physics. But agree they should make a great product overall regardless.

CyanLite2• 6 years ago

This will be the new trendy way to do Zoom calls.

JoshTko• 6 years ago

Easy, I want all the features in Airpods but with better sound.

apetrovic• 6 years ago

I don't plan to buy it (I have Air Pods Pro and Bose QC35 II and they works well), but if I'm on the market for NC headphones, I would probably pay premium for Apple's, if reviews doesn't find any glaring shortcomings. Why? Because of the small things - switching between active devices on AirPods works very well for me (today I received a phone call by telling my iphone to switch to AirPods even if they're attached to my laptop), automatic detection of the right ear, head tracking (these spatial sound demos sounds amazing and I hope more applications will support it).

These things means more to my average and aging ears than some flashy audiophile names.

ogre_codes19• 6 years ago

Sennheiser HD660S, Audeze LCD-1

These are wired headphones that lack ANC.

Haven't listened to them, but just looking at the features it's pretty obvious these aren't for the same people. Apple's cans are Wireless high quality headphones with Active Noise Cancellation, transparency mode, and seamless switching. The only thing they have in common with the ones you listed is "Headphones".

This is all setting aside the fact that you are prejudging audio quality of a product nobody has reviewed.

I suspect there are a ton of people like me who are just fine with good sound and very interested in getting wireless noise cancelling headphones.

yalogin• 6 years ago

I don't understand the higher end audio space and may be that's why, I don't quite understand your statement.

What makes these other companies good at audio that Apple cannot match? They are a huge company that have been making audio products for a really long time and (no matter what one thinks of them) they own Beats too. So I actually say, if Sennheiser and others can do it Apple can do it better, not just because of their approach but also because of their SW/HW integration story.

simias3• 6 years ago

It might be a bit of a hot take but from my point of view audio is mostly a solved problem. It's not like video where we still have trade-offs in terms of quality due to the huge bandwidth and processing involved for very high resolutions as well as the difficulty of reproducing very high dynamic ranges and framerates.

None of this is relevant for audio. Despite what some audiocultists would have you believe CD quality is basically as good as it gets, you cover effectively 100% of the (normal) human hearing range, both in frequency range and dynamics. Ok, ok, technically not 100% of the dynamics, but few people care to listen to "distant ventilator on a quiet night" followed by "Airbus A380 taking off from the point of view of the jet turbine".

Of course the quality of reproduction matters a lot, playing a CD through cheap $5 earphones is not going to sound great. But even there the cost of decent quality electronics keeps dropping and dropping. You can get a good quality DAC for a trivial amount of money (and stand alone DACs are still usually overpriced because they're for the niche/enthusiast/pro market, everybody else uses whatever their smartphones/laptop/desktop has integrated).

Buying ultra high-end, ultra-expensive "audiophile" equipment these days is effectively like buying mechanical watches. It's because you like the luxury and craftsmanship, or you're making a fashion statement. Apple knows that, hence these AirPods. If you're about function over form you'd sooner get a cheapo Casio quartz watch.

And there's nothing wrong with that, it just annoys me when audiophiles try to justify their fashion statements with pseudo-science.

TimTheTinker3• 6 years ago

“spatial audio” is the killer feature here. It’s one of the last “unsolved” audio problems (at least in available headphone/earphone product lines), along with the upper frequency limit on noise canceling, which this product doesn’t solve.

theincredulousk5• 6 years ago

ehhh I'd say mostly solved. The problem of turning a recording into a perfect sound-wave replication is actually not easy, because the physical world is annoying with heat and friction and and physics.

I'd say 24/96 is comfortably the "end game solved problem" quality for source recordings though, not CD. Even if it is just for the baseline safety margin that it is easier to implement perfect filters with no transition bands anywhere near the audible frequencies, and that additional bit precision has no downside unless you get into accuracy problems with noise on the recording side.

From the speaker point of view, I think IEMs are the closest to being "solved", since the tiny drivers minimize the physics issues with larger drivers, they are probably closest to pure reproduction. For full-size speakers etc., pure reproduction can be accomplished for certain frequency ranges by individual drivers, but over the full range it is not so "solved", e.g. with bass there is often a physics issue with the kinetics of moving a large driver cone in perfect phase-sync with the relatively tiny and light tweeter.

I've actually been wondering if speaker cones are a possible application for graphene.

ksk4• 6 years ago

Audio (gear) is nowhere near to being a solved problem. One open problem is to match your own personal HRTF to your gear. Audio (production) is also not a solved problem. Your experience is decided by the recording/mixing engineer, and there may be multiple renderings possible of the same content. In much the same way, different conductors of the same orchestra can produce different flavors of the same composition. Then there is the spatial localization for games and movies, which is still not quite solved.

And there's nothing wrong with that, it just annoys me when audiophiles try to justify their fashion statements with pseudo-science.

Yes, those people can get nutty, ignore them! Audio is much bigger than Audiophile :)

Having said that, with no pressure from consumers, why would anyone invest money in new headphone designs? I recently purchased a pair of planar magnetic headphones which used to be crummy when I tried them a few years back. The newer design is very efficient, the manufacturing process is also pretty solid, and the sound is fantastic.

fastball9• 6 years ago

Have you tried these headphones? How do you know others are providing better sound at a cheaper price?

egsmi• 6 years ago

established professional audio companies offering better sound

Didn’t these just come out? How do you know the other offering have better sound?

reaperducer6• 6 years ago

when there are a lot of established professional audio companies offering better sound at a cheaper price.

I won't argue about the price. But considering that exactly zero HN commenters have tried these, how can you categorically state that the audio is bad? People used spec sheets to make the same assumptions about each iteration of AirPods and were wrong each time.

Reason0775• 6 years ago

"$549!?"

Sony WH-1000XM4s will set you back $350 and these are favourite NC headphones for many.

The AirPods Max have some clear advantages over those: 9 microphones, huge suite of positioning sensors including gyroscope and accelerometer etc. Presumably the sound quality and NC will be at least as good as Sony's, and the software, UX and "build quality" significantly better.

thefourthchime3• 6 years ago

Yep, this is exactly what I expect. I also expect they'll cost $350 by next Black Friday and force the rest of the industry to copy the build quality and some features.

strogonoff3• 6 years ago

I’m finicky about audio quality, still I favour Apple products generally.

I was willing to give Apple a chance last year and got AirPods Pro, but they proved abysmal in terms of everything—comfort for wearing long term, isolation, sound quality, going out of sync with each other, and a while ago one of them started to emit loud noise randomly. It’s likely that some of those issues are related to my unit and individual fit, but I’m back to Shure SE215/SE425 and their black foam tips (which achieve very similar overall attenuation without active NC[0]) as my go-to in-ear headphones.

For over-the-ears I have fairly old (and virtually unbreakable) Sony WH-1000XM3; when their battery goes I would love to give Apple another chance but the price tag makes it hard to justify.

IMO to any audiophile/sound engineer familiar with the brands mentioned by eertami the price of Apple’s new AirPods would indeed appear outlandish.

[0] Measurably so: https://www.rtings.com/headphones/reviews/apple/airpods-pro-... vs. https://www.rtings.com/headphones/reviews/shure/se215#compar...

geoelectric• 6 years ago

I'm not sure where you'd get the SQ and NC will presumably be better. If you compare the AirPod Pros and the Sony WF1000s, Sony comes out ahead in most estimations I've seen. Sony has been doing portable personal audio for an awfully long time, given that they basically invented the form factor, so they're not likely to be lagging behind too much.

Don't get me wrong, Apple is OK at consumer audio. The Homepod is nice, so are the APPs. Even Beats aren't too bad nowadays. But they haven't released consistently better audio products than Audeze, Sennheiser, Sony, M&D, or even Bose--their closest comparison, since both Apple and Bose lean hard on DSPs for their SQ.

I suspect the second version of these headphones will be pretty excellent. Apple does learn from its mistakes, whatever they'll end up being. Trick is Bose and Sony will have learned from their mistakes too. It'll be interesting to see if Apple ends up being able to compete on audio, not just style.

jasonlotito• 6 years ago

audio companies offering better sound at a cheaper price.

It's not just sound though, right? Can you point me to an offering that offers the same features that Apple is offering here? Wireless, with a high battery life, automatic switching, Siri, noise cancellation, spatial mode, etc.

At least airpods have a unique selling point in their portability and ux but I don't see how this benefits over-ear cans.

I don't see why portability and a good UX are somehow not needed for over-ear headphones.

asdffdsa• 6 years ago

Did you see the notes?

- adaptive EQ - noise cancelling - transparent-mode - 3D spatial awareness

If Apple nails those, then it's worth the money in my book.

wetpaws• 6 years ago

Pretty sure quite a lot of people will buy it _because_ of the price, not despite it.

paulpan• 6 years ago

For every value product (e.g. the SE lineup), Apple puts out an outrageously priced one like this.

Much like the $129 wireless charger (cable sold separately),it's intended for die-hard fans. Apple user demographic is across the entire economic spectrum so I'm sure that 1) this will sell well and 2) it's a great pair of headphones.

Worth pointing out that this doesn't have any auxiliary ports so you can't use it on airplanes, etc...unless there's an upcoming lightning-to-aux adapter. It feels like a culmination of the "no headphone jack" vision started with the iPhone 7.

novok• 6 years ago

My other disappointment is how they didn't use this to improve bluetooth too.

They could of used this to add a new set of proprietary bluetooth protocols to improve the audio quality of voice calls and general listening. BT microphone + headphone streaming is fairly high latency and low fidelity. Same with general audio. Could of called it Apple Bluetooth HD or something similar.

Missed opportunity.

romanovcode• 6 years ago

These ones have microphone.

samatman7• 6 years ago

You're assuming they'll sound worse. I don't consider that a safe assumption.

Apple is an established professional audio company. Macs are the computer used in production and DJing, have been for decades. They take sound seriously, and when Apple says less than 1% distortion across the entire audible range, well.

They could be lying, but I wouldn't bet money on that.

floatingatoll6• 6 years ago

I don't trust any of those companies to deliver Bluetooth headphones that use best-in-class audio protocols to prioritize audio quality over compatibility. I expect them to outsource a Bluetooth chip that can't negotiate AAC over the air, because they weren't willing to pay the chip cost or licensing fee. I expect them to be unable to easily pair with five separate devices (including Windows 10) and transition between them rapidly. I expect them to cheapen their audio experience when they go wireless.

If Apple's new thing was wired only, I wouldn't even consider them. I already have my custom balanced-XLR Beyerdynamics on a pile of Schiit on my office desk. They serve that purpose beautifully, and I see no reason to change that.

The DT1770s that you compare them to are not wireless. They're not in the same market at all as Apple's wireless products. Of the manufacturers you list, I trust none of them to meet wireless needs. I trust Apple to meet wireless needs as much as I trust Beyerdynamic to meet wired needs.

whiddershins• 6 years ago

Do you know for a fact those companies are providing better sound?

I’m not saying you are wrong, I would just like to know if this is based on something specific.

arihant• 6 years ago

This might be the first music product from Apple that I would be skipping. Spatial audio needs to come to Apple TV and the MacBooks before these become worthy of price. And major services need to implement it.

Netflix on Mac with Spatial audio with nothing inside my ear would be worth $549 to me.

rmorey• 6 years ago

I feel like they have to got to be releasing a new Apple TV with support for spatial audio soon, if not today. Airpods Max, Fitness+, like come on

ianai• 6 years ago

Other comments are suggesting the tech in these may be for upcoming AR tech. I could see the price making more sense with a “killer app” for the added tech.

codq3• 6 years ago

This first Gen is for conspicuous consumers on Zoom calls.

I’d wait for the second or third before I’d consider investing into this.

AlanYx5• 6 years ago

Has anyone seen which codecs this supports over Bluetooth? They're not listed on the tech specs page.

ddmma• 6 years ago

It’s a fashion icon brand with communication capabilities with high price positioning, like luxury merchandise.

r0fl2• 6 years ago

I know nothing about headphones, nor do I want to invest any time learning about headphones.

I’ve had a bunch of Apple products that have never disappointed me in the last 10+ years.

I’ll buy these overpriced headphones because an extra $200 for a product I’ll probably use for 5 years will not break my bank account.

Benjamin_Dobell• 6 years ago

I can certainly understand when going to make a purchase wanting to choose a reliable brand. However, if you know nothing about headphones, why do you suddenly need an expensive pair now that Apple are selling them?

baxtr• 6 years ago

Why “suddenly”? As I read the comment, OP transfers his previous experience with the brand to the next product? That’s how I buy too.

chrisseaton4• 6 years ago

You don't need to know anything about headphones to appreciate good sound quality, comfort, and connectivity.

shotta• 6 years ago

You answered the question. It’s because Apple is selling them. Apple has a unique ability to tell me what I need. Reality Distortion.

lethologica6• 6 years ago

Because the majority of people who will buy these would have never have heard of Audeze or Beyerdynamic.

gurleen_s• 6 years ago

I think the point he’s trying to make that if he needed to buy a pair of headphones he would buy these.

r0fl2• 6 years ago

Bought airpods, they worked great

Bought airpods pro, love the noise cancelling sound, think they sound great (to me)

Bought homepod, sounds great

As a customer, I just trust that Apple will not put out a crap product in this price range. It may be missing a headphone jack or some audio balancing features that audiogeeks will care about. I trust that they will sound very good (to my average ears), good good and most importantly have a great resale value if I get bored with them

They will also make a great gift for the people on my list that have everything

hrktb• 6 years ago

About the expensive part. In the grand scheme of things the iPhone is 1000+ EUR, with an extra 200 for AppleCare, a watch would be around 500 on top of that.

Adding 550 for something that will sit on one's head for hours and hours isn't outlandish in comparison.

I'm in the Pixel 4 / cheapish Sony headphones camp, but for people riding the high tide it doesn't look out of place pricing wise.

runawaybottle5• 6 years ago

Dude, I can promise you for 600 dollars you can buy more amazing headphones. You can probably find two cans for 300 each that will be better.

These are Apple Beats.

Throwaway17714• 6 years ago

Which is funny, because I think Apple owns Beats©®™.

JCharante• 6 years ago

Please recommend more amazing headphones that meet the basic specs that the NCH 700/WX-/AirPods Max have:

- 20 hours battery life

- wireless

- noise cancellation

- has microphone(s)

Does audio quality matter that much when they have to work with bluetooth where the bandwidth will be halved whenever you have to use the microphone?

mellosouls• 6 years ago

(paraphrased)

"I know nothing about the subject..."

"Not gonna learn about other options..."

"Apple doesn't disappoint me..."

"I'll buy the overpriced stuff because I can afford it..."

This Apple-blinkers comment is telling, and refreshingly honest.

I'm sure there are other brands with that sort of attachment, but none that exemplify the phenomenon more.

lnenad• 6 years ago

Tbh it's a valid point. I'm the same for Bosch home appliances, or Miele if I'm going for the long haul. It just works^TM

Veen3• 6 years ago

I'm not going to buy these because I'm happy with my WH-1000XM3's, but I understand the point the commenter was making.

Most people do not have the time or the inclination to exhaustively survey the market and technology when they want to buy headphones, speakers, laptops, and so on. They use low-effort proxy signals to judge the quality and desirability of products.

Brand is a reasonably reliable proxy and most Apple stuff is pretty good. At the very least, its rarely terrible, which you can't say about many other brands. If you know nothing about headphones but want a decent quality pair without looking into it too deeply, these are a rational option.

kube-system2• 6 years ago

If time equals money, then a reliable track record also has monetary value, at least to the people who are not hobbyists.

fatbird5• 6 years ago

What you're calling "attachment", others would call "trust". Like the sibling comment, my wife and I got a Bosch dishwasher when we needed one because we didn't want to spend a couple days becoming dishwasher experts to save a couple hundred dollars and obtain some criterial best that we wouldn't even appreciate in practice. We went on the consensus around the brand and the experience of people we know who got one.

I'm not sure why Apple receives this kind of contempt for having built a brand people trust for valid reasons (i.e., "I've had a consistently good experience trusting this brand"), going by the comment that's gotten so many bothered here.

fennecfoxen• 6 years ago

You are looking at a phenomenon that economics would describe as the Cost of Search. It is a situation in which a market inefficiency exists because searching for a product is difficult, or involves research and/or background knowledge.

Part of the value of the Apple brand is that people will pay some fraction of that cost to avoid that search while also being sure that their product actually works.

Tycho• 6 years ago

When you aren't price sensitive, you apply that sort of thinking to most things, if it's a one-off purchase. I do at least.

I recently bought a car. I spent about a year deliberating over it, picking the right market segment, picking the right model, picking the right financing option.

Last week I bought a microwave. I just walked into the store, looked at what they had on the shelf, and picked a Panasonic one that was around the right size I was looking for. I didn't even look at the features, I just looked at 'Panasonic.'

Lio2• 6 years ago

The original point of product branding was to allow people to use it to purchase pre-packaged food from a source that they could trust.

The commenter is simply saying that they can afford the price and that they trust Apple's brand not to disappoint them based on previous experience.

That seems fair enough to me.

Personally, I wouldn't buy these because I don't like the styling. I'm also moving towards products made by OEMs rather than outsourced manufacturing as I'm not too price sensitive. i.e. I'm not in the target market segment.

If I could get over all that I'm sure these would be good enough.

honkdaddy• 6 years ago

Truly though, has there been another company which has produced such consistently high-quality consumer products over a 30+ year timeframe? I think there's a very real to be made for Apple zealotry; there really isn't another company like them.

bdcravens5• 6 years ago

My take on that comment: "I don't have the expertise to separate one pair of high end headphones from another. My experience with Apple products tells me Apple consistently puts out products that meet or exceed my expectations, so by buying the Apple version of product_x, I feel it's a safe bet."

EdwardCoffin• 6 years ago

(interpreted)

"I know nothing of OP's set of priorities..."

"Not going to enquire after them, just make blind judgements of them compared to mine..."

"I'll take OP's probably hyperbolic label of overpriced at face value, and criticize them for making a purchase they project to cost them only an extra $3.33/month ..."

This elitist take is telling, though not really refreshing.

I'm sure there are mindsets other than that of anti-Apple zealots, but none that exemplify the phenomenon more.

imtringued2• 6 years ago

Razor is basically doing the same thing. People love sticking to brands.

JohnBooty7• 6 years ago

    I'm sure there are other brands with that sort of 
    attachment, but none that exemplify the phenomenon more.

Get off that high horse and take a really honest look at your own life, and you'll probably find dozens of examples.

Do you research evvvvvvvvvvvvvverything you buy? Toothpaste? Underwear? Toothpicks?

Ever order from Amazon even though something costs slightly more because you're not sure if the other retailer is trustworthy and you don't feel like spending an hour figuring out if Bob's Wholesale Toothpick Emporium is a site you can trust?

I don't know about you, but my life is a combination of things I have obsessively researched and stuff where I just sort of relied on the brand name. When I need a pair of pants I usually just buy Levis or something because they'll be fine. I've only got so many hours in my life and I don't really feel like becoming a... pants expert.

unethical_ban• 6 years ago

"What is Brand recognition?"

Apple doesn't shit on their own brand for a quick dollar. The HN reader might argue nuance, but their consumer base is the proof.

There is nothing wrong with people having a bit of brand loyalty. It's one of a thousand shortcuts our brains take a day in making decisions.

zepto7• 6 years ago

That “phenomenon” as you call it, is otherwise known as a satisfied customer.

Nobody has time to exhaustively research every product they buy, and most people don’t have the inclination. Therefore when they find a company that meets their needs reliably, they tend to keep buying from them unless there is a problem.

This is a normal feature of business. Every business tries to satisfy their customers in this way.

If there is something special about Apple, it is that they have a lot of satisfied customers.

millerm• 6 years ago

I'll have to say that the spatial audio stuff is friggin' cool in the AirPods Pro. This is a bit spicy for me in the $ department as I already have too many professional over-the-ear headphones. But, would be nice... Dammit. Don't make me do it! I haven't looked, but if this has spatial audio that is compatible with an upcoming AppleTV or something, I'd probably just say "ummm, yeah, I will not be putting any surround sound in this room and I'll just enjoy this movie with my headphones."

theklr• 6 years ago

That’s the feature I was waiting (and continue to wait) on. I think there’s a future there they’re not pushing quite yet.

vinay427• 6 years ago

A proper surround setup (5.1 is more than enough for a mid-size room) or even Atmos speakers can be had for a reasonable price if you shop around. There's really no substitute (in my opinion) for the experience if you watch movies and have a compatible receiver/amplifier. A large and well-designed subwoofer is incredibly noticeable as well depending on your use case. It can easily sound better than the large majority of seats in your average theater which aren't ideally positioned without spending too much.

dougmwne3• 6 years ago

I've been using my pairs of Grados and Sennheisers for 20 years each. The Grados were $200 and the Sennheisers were $150. Apple has never been known for hitting audiophile quality, so even though we don't have reviews yet, they likely don't sound as good. Your Apple headphones will be in the trash in a few years and mine will still be delivering wonderful sound.

eldaisfish• 6 years ago

to the majority of apple's target consumer, none of this matters.

molestrangler• 6 years ago

Been using my Grado RS2 headphones for around 18 years. Their repair service is excellent! Also I expect each Grado headphone to have a overall lower carbon footprint.

I did notice the Apple website does not list the Frequency Response specs.

untog6• 6 years ago

nor do I want to invest any time learning about headphones

https://www.nytimes.com/wirecutter/reviews/best-over-ear-hea...

~ 5 minutes of reading time and done.

whynaut4• 6 years ago

how is this helpful? You’re not proving anything, and likely just pissing off GP.

Zarel• 6 years ago

I used that guide a few months ago and bought the Bose NC 700, Wirecutter's recommended high-end option.

I've had a huge list of problems with it:

- The noise cancellation sets itself to maximum power every time you put it on and there's no way to completely turn off noise cancellation when using a computer; here's a thread of people complaining about it: https://community.bose.com/t5/Around-On-Ear-Headphones/NC-70...

- The only way to use it with no noise cancellation is to pair it with your phone, install the Bose app (there are three, make sure you use the right one), open the Bose app, find the settings which are not easy to find, and turn it off, and repeat this process EVERY TIME you use the headphones (there's plenty of lag in every step in this process, of course)

- It requires a Bluetooth connection to use the mic (the cable only supports speakers), which means I can't use it in Boot Camp because Boot Camp Bluetooth is currently broken

- It mispronounces my name every time I put it on, with no way to fix it, which gets very aggravating

- There's sometimes some weird static noise when connected to my Android phone, and they also automatically reconnect to my phone every time I turn it on, even after I manually disconnect it every time (my AirPods Pro don't do this so it's not just a problem all headphones share)

It's otherwise pretty good, but these flaws are really frustrating considering how much I paid for it.

The reason people are willing to pay more for Apple is because Apple products usually don't have problems like these.

bitcharmer12• 6 years ago

Are you trolling on purpose?

qwertox• 6 years ago

I can get behind this mentality. It's not mine, the only Apple products I owned were iPod nanos, and compared to what was on the market back then, they were really good.

Always trying to get the best for the smallest possible price starts to drain you. You get to a point where you say "I trust them and I can afford it" and that is ok. I wish I could do that.

halgir4• 6 years ago

Always trying to get the best for the smallest possible price starts to drain you.

So true. I've been doing this lately, and have realized how mentally draining it really is to conduct exhaustive research to maximize the value/price you get for a product. Not to mention the time spent easily runs into the hundreds of dollars worth.

For enthusiasts it can be a joy to research a product. For example audiophiles with headphones. But for average consumers like me, just going with the expensive but safe option is on average a really good heuristic.

kumarvvr• 6 years ago

549 USD. Wow.

I don't judge Apple. They are free to price what they want and people can buy what they want, but the pricing for this product seems expensive.

For 149 USD more, you can get the latest 256 GB, M1 based Mac Mini.

For 50 USD More, you can get a new iPad Air.

For 149 USD More, you can get an iPhone 12

These headphones are really expensive.

diffeomorphism4• 6 years ago

You can also get both the Sony 1000XM4, the current best noise-cancelling overear wireless headphones, and the Sennheiser HD560s and still have $60 left.

kishinmanglani• 6 years ago

I'm a sucker. I just bought them. I love being able to switch between my iPhone and my Mac on my AirPods.

I have the Sony MX3's, and they are great. I don't like toggling between devices and having it automatically connect to my last used device, have to disconnect it from one, blah, blah.

This is what Apple does. They raise prices. People are stunned initially. Others follow, then those prices are the norm. iPhone was considered overpriced when it was released. I think people have always thought the same about Macs, iPad, Apple Watch, etc.

saberdancer2• 6 years ago

Toggling between devices really needs to be implemented better. Wouldn't it be possible for headphones to have a button to switch "inputs" between devices they are paired to?

I've come to use NFC to switch quickly to my phone, but I can't really NFC back to my PC as easily. Several awkward clicks and menus later I can start using them on my PC. Not a huge deal sure, but for a premium device I'd expect something more streamlined.

turshija• 6 years ago

I own Bose QC35II, and they definitely have a button to switch between paired devices. They do the switch automatically based on whether the sound is playing on your devices, but if both devices are playing audio at the same time you need to switch them manually by pushing the switch to Bluetooth position once (if you push and hold it goes into pairing mode, but pushing and releasing it quickly does the toggle).

eCa• 6 years ago

Wouldn't it be possible for headphones to have a button to switch "inputs" between devices they are paired to?

Bose QC35 has such a switch toggle. It can be paired with four devices, and connected with two simultaneously. Switching between my private Windows computer, iphone and work-Mac is pretty flawless.

whyoh• 6 years ago

but I can't really NFC back to my PC as easily

It should be doable with an NFC sticker switch. (With NFC Tasks on Android, for example.)

bhandziuk6• 6 years ago

This is why (well one of the reasons) I just can't switch to bluetooth anything. If I want to use with multiple devices it's a pain.

_the_inflator• 6 years ago

Apple takes care of the minor details that just bug you. Same here. Also got Sony MX and it annoys me to sync them between my iPad and Mac.

gwd4• 6 years ago

My Bose QC35's connect to both my Macbook & my iPhone at the same time. Hit play on either one, and sound comes out. Listening to something on my laptop and someone calls? It rings and I can answer.

I'm sure the AirPods Max will be pretty awesome in its own way though.

dijit4• 6 years ago

I have the QC35's and I love them, but they have drawbacks.

the audio quality for calling is disastrous, disabling (or turning down the noise cancelling) is impossible without their App, and the "primary" source of audio overrides the secondary source. Which can be an issue if you have something the headphones 'think' is playing, but isn't. -- common when my linux laptop is the primary source.

fastball9• 6 years ago

My $50 headphones do this.

Also they fast charge with USB-C.

propelol• 6 years ago

It becomes almost unusable when you connect the third device.

ehsankia2• 6 years ago

Does anyone know why multipoint is so rare? Is it hard to implement? Does it drain too much battery?

e40• 6 years ago

My $350 Bose QC35s connect to both my iPhone and Mac Pro. Seemlessly.

iqihs• 6 years ago

the mic is hot garbage on those

burlesona• 6 years ago

Ok, can you explain to me how you do it? I have AirPod pros and the only way I can switch between devices is to go to the Bluetooth menu on the device I want to listen to and tell it to connect to the AirPods. That’s fine, and it doesn’t bother me much, but it doesn’t seem especially fast or magical to me. Is there a better way?

mjburgess• 6 years ago

That's right. It's just not that easy with other devices.

Not sure how apple devices "just switch", it might be that they have multi-device bluetooth; or they have custom hardware.

But other devices are very "sticky" with their BT connections. My approach is mostly to turn off bluetooth one one device when I want to switch to another.

bdcravens5• 6 years ago

Each device has a native place you select the Airpods from (MacOS: sound menu; iOS: the playback widget in the Control Center). Still a menu, but a little easier to going into the bluetooth menu.

Aaronn• 6 years ago

If your devices are on iOS 14 / macOS Big Sur then you can just start playing music or a video on one device and the audio automatically switches to that device and pauses on the one you had previously been using.

justinsaccount• 6 years ago

Sony fixed the multi device pairing in the mx4.. would be nice if they could just do a software update to fix it on the mx3.

te_chris• 6 years ago

or xm2

vincentmarle• 6 years ago

I love being able to switch between my iPhone and my Mac on my AirPods.

Is there some secret feature of Airpods that I don’t know about? I use Airpods everyday, but I still need to go to Settings > Bluetooth > Connect every time to change devices.

microtherion2• 6 years ago

I use the AirPlay icon in Control Center: https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT202769

NationalPark4• 6 years ago

Same boat here. I've already spent thousands of dollars on fancy audiophile stuff. Can you guess what I use to listen to music most? My Airpods, because everything about them is so damn convenient. Can't wait to get these, even if they don't sound quite as good as the ideal set.

bitcharmer12• 6 years ago

I'm not an audiophile myself, but if you yourself claim to be one and then state you settled for Airpods something here rings very untrue.

ps2• 6 years ago

Happy for you, however my mileage is completely different. Watching Youtube on the iPad having my iPhone lying next to it, pausing the video by taking one Airpod off. Then put it back and iPhone immediately steals AirPods Pro and I have to either connect them back to the iPad in Settings or play/pause/play/pause/... and wait about 20s seconds and they may reconnect. iPhone is lying face down all the time, no music or any sound activity in progress for hours.

I was initially impressed, but the quirks got more and more frequent and I actually hate the broken switching now.

malshe2• 6 years ago

I think you are describing this behavior: https://support.apple.com/guide/iphone/switch-airpods-automa...

You can turn it off by doing this:

"To turn off automatic switching, go to Settings > Bluetooth, tap the Actions Available button next to the name of your AirPods, tap Connect to This iPhone, then tap When Last Connected to This iPhone."

_imba_• 6 years ago

Most newest gen premium headphones can do that, Sony MX4 included.

dkonofalski21• 6 years ago

No they can't. Not automatically.

buttersbrian• 6 years ago

the Sony MX4's do this as well. They also are likely better at Sound and ANC.

The thing with the iphone is it was absolutely segment shattering.

Your iPhone comparison falls on deaf ears, as this isn't a defining product like the iPhone. The iPhone was stunning enough that people questioned the audacity. This is by comparison -- pedestrian for the price point.

KX2UOWQ9ZN• 6 years ago

Don't think this is new. I have bose supersport, been using it for a couple of years perhaps. Battery lasts weeks, connects to both my work and personal phone as soon as I turn it on, and hit play on either device. And, I don't remember ever facing any connectivity issues either, just works since the day I paired.

I am not sure what other features airpods have but if this is "the" feature, you can have it even in products for about a fifth the price since years.

sneak2• 6 years ago

Really quite curious to see how these stack up against the $263 Sennheiser HD1s, my current favorite over-ear noise cancelling bluetooth headphones, which sound lovely (my daily drivers are the HD820s, for reference).

I can't really speak to the price (like others in the thread) until I hear them. It's possible they're $1000 headphones for <$600, much like how insanely high-quality the HomePod is for its price. It's also possible they're just some Beats in a metal case. Impossible to tell without actually using them.

Looking forward to trying a pair.

ghevshoo• 6 years ago

And it’s still using lightning :(

mosselman• 6 years ago

I have no idea what they sound like, but they look incredible. I doubt I'll buy them at that price, but I am happy to see that people are designing these kinds of things.

0x445442• 6 years ago

Headphones are the new sneakers.

jjkaczor• 6 years ago

Will stick with my Parrot Ziqs (gen1) for awhile longer at that price...

ryeguy_243• 6 years ago

For someone that already has some decent over ear headphones, I read the entire press release thinking that these would be great to get. I was pegging them at $249 to $399 max. $549 shocked the daylights out of me! This is beyond too expensive for me to consider. Maybe it will come down over the years but there must be a very slim market of people who can pay that. I’m not usually shocked by an Apple price but that’s nuts. Few hundred dollars more and you can get a state of the art M1 MacBook Air and some amazing non-Apple headphones to go with it.

ziml775• 6 years ago

That's also the range I had the price at in my head. $550 is far too much for headphones. It's not quite as insane as the ridiculous monitor stand or Mac Pro wheel pricing, but it's not far off. I don't really get what their market is here.

asciimov• 6 years ago

Apple is a lifestyle brand now. Lifestyle brands aren't cheap as you want everyone to know just how much someone spent for a pair of headphones.

mantap• 6 years ago

It's more insane than the monitor stand. That monitor stand is for a monitor that is aimed at professionals working on HDR content. It's a very low volume, specialised part, $1k isn't entirely unreasonable.

These headphones will be mass produced in huge volumes. It's a consumer product. Just a very expensive one.

0x0087• 6 years ago

Remember when we said $800 for an iPhone is beyond expensive and unreasonable?

jacquesm3• 6 years ago

It is. That you've adjusted doesn't change the fact that it still is.

ryeguy_243• 6 years ago

Totally understand that we all adjust our minds on Apple pricing but giving that headphones aren’t a new and amazing technology, I think that’s an uphill battle for Apple. After seeing this announcement, I just bought a pair of Grado SR80e. They have amazing sound and it’s sub-100 bucks. My Airpods are amazing for outside and running around at home. But for time in the chair, wired headphones are awesome.

t-writescode2• 6 years ago

It's important to remember that most people in the US, at least, don't pay $800 for their phone. They pay a couple hundred and the phone is subsidized by monthly cell phone bills.

It's like student loans, in a way.

chadlavi3• 6 years ago

$800 would be outrageous to pay for an iPhone 4. For an iPhone 12? I'm not sure it's so ridiculous.

I've had my current iPhone for 4 years. If I buy one $20 bag of coffee beans a month, then I've spent more for coffee in the last 4 years than I have on my phone. Seems like a good deal to me?

thekyle• 6 years ago

I mean yeah $800 is a lot of money for a phone. Even Apple sells the iPhone SE for $400. For $800 you could almost get a MacBook Air and you could buy multiple iPads.

mrtksn10• 6 years ago

Oh, I find it fascinating how the audio gear industry has taught the consumers on how much money you are supposed to spend to have audio experience at certain level. Pay attention on audiophile arguments, they will talk in terms of money(i.e. 150$ headphones vs 500$ headphones) when talking about audio quality.

I always find the audiophile market to be borderline fraud. They sell CD demagnetisers, ceramic cable lifters and all sorts of items that don't make any sense whatsoever.

Apple is my hero in that regard, where you actually pay for the product experience instead for being part of some deeply troubling subculture where passionately debating about very expensive cables and gadgets without ever being able to pass a blind test on the claims is the norm, almost like cargo cult. The most eloquent writer wins the debate and thy have lengthy take down articles with graphs clearly showing that the mor you pay the smoother the curves become. I would't usually have problem with such things but they often slide into extremism and quickly pushing you on the money-spend-for-audio-performance scale where you are simply supposed to check you bank account to see what sound quality you are about to get. So god help you if you are buying an audio equipment and you decided to do some research.

LudwigNagasena• 6 years ago

Why only borderline? It is a market that preys on delusion.

si1entstill4• 6 years ago

Do you think it preys on delusion more than the "high end" spaces of other niche markets? I think the same kind of upsells occur in spaces like sporting gear, bags and luggage, computer peripherals, etc. Hell, I think even fine food and wine are similar in how they project an artificially high "taste ceiling," if you will.

gubby• 6 years ago

In my view the audiophile £500+ Ethernet cables are more than borderline fraud.

wp381640• 6 years ago

You can’t shit on audiophiles without mentioning overpriced cables

lethologica6• 6 years ago

Funnily enough I came across these the other day.

https://www.transparentcable.com/collections/all/xl?catID=1&...

A fool and their money...

blowfish721• 6 years ago

Probably mentioned elsewhere in the threads but posting it here as well, be sure to check out their entire selection of snake oil. https://www.audioquest.com/cables/digital-cables/rj-e-ethern...

JansjoFromIkea• 6 years ago

I dunno about fraud but it does occasionally have similarities to drug usage imo in that you can become aware of certain highs and then wind up endlessly chasing new levels of greatness.

I remember the first few albums I listened to on what I then considered HIGH quality headphones (Koss PortaPros and ATH-M50s) and it was mindblowing how much better some albums sounded, how much better they felt. It creates an itch that people with disposable income will want to scratch, then once you move into bluetooth you're adding all kinds of connection issues to consider too.

clolege16• 6 years ago

The Porta Pros are still amazing headphones. Lifetime warranty, cheap, and great sound. They work perfect for exercising, if you're willing to put up with the cable

jankotek3• 6 years ago

I think it is rather naive view. Audio market is an industry with professionals.

You can buy spare parts for 30-years old studio headphones. Apple with their "no repair allowed" business model and 500ms latency is a joke.

mrtksn10• 6 years ago

These are not the professionals, professionals and people who like to listen to music are completely different bunch apart from audiophiles.

The audiophiles don't like music and don't make money from their equipment, they simply obsess with it. They are like those camera nerds talking about the sensors, color science and so on but are not actually into photography. The professional photographers simply use the equipment for the task and the people who love photography don't obsess with the camera. Same thing with the audio.

clolege16• 6 years ago

Are you guessing on the 500ms? Looks like the most recent AirPods Pro can achieve 144ms [0], so I'd imagine the Max to be slightly less.

Not great, but should allow phone conversations without too much fatigue.

[0] https://9to5mac.com/2019/12/22/airpods-latency-test/

codegladiator4• 6 years ago

Apple is my hero in that regard

How does apple becomes your hero when they are selling the same thing ?

deeply troubling subculture where passionately debating about very expensive cables and gadgets without ever being able to pass a blind test on the claims is the norm, almost like cargo cult

That sounds like the apple cult.

quickly pushing you on the money-spend-for-audio-performance scale where you are simply supposed to check you bank account

We are talking about $549 earphones from apple here.

fortran773• 6 years ago

How does apple becomes your hero when they are selling the same thing ?

Because he values image over substance, and his personal identity is tied to Apple.

One thing about my Grado, Audeze, etc. I can repair them. I've had the same pairs for years, used day in and out, and when I wear them out I can buy new parts and easily fix them. I don't need to go to a "Genius" or have to spudge them apart and not have them ever fit right again.

mrtksn10• 6 years ago

How does apple becomes your hero when they are selling the same thing ?

They sell the product experience. Easily connects, looks nice and sounds nice. Every now and then they would throw some audiphileish numbers in the product description(like it updates 3 gazillion times per second) but it's never the central argument.

Apple products are always about the experience and they wouldn't hesitate to put higher end specs when matter and lower end specs when it doesn't and make nerds uncomfortable or even angry because it would miss-match their convention of GB per USD or Herz per Euro. This is the way it always was, most famously with iPhone where Apple doesn't disclose RAM or CPU frequency or battery capacity and all-knowing reviewers will angrily tell you that Apple sells 1000$ phone with 4GB of RAM and how ridiculous is this compared to, say Samsung where you get 12GB RAM for the same price.

robenkleene2• 6 years ago

deeply troubling subculture where passionately debating about very expensive cables and gadgets without ever being able to pass a blind test on the claims is the norm, almost like cargo cult
That sounds like the apple cult.

I'm not sure what you're getting at here, but this statement on its face is absurd. The equivalent comparison to "without ever being able to pass a blind test" would be running macOS on a computer where you've hidden the Apple logo, and seeing if people can tell whether it's Windows.

You may have valid problems with Apple's users, but you haven't provided any evidence that it has anything in common with audiophile culture, and the comparison makes no sense on its face as described by the parent comment.

zemo3• 6 years ago

finding this a really weird comment. In both NYC and Chicago I've had no problem walking into a store where I can try many different sets of headphones and talk to someone on staff about my listening habits, taste in music, and environment where I'll be listening. Both times I got straightforward advice and wound up buying a headset that lasted at least five years that I loved.

whynaut4• 6 years ago

it’s not a comment about in store experience, it’s about audiophile culture.

hajile3• 6 years ago

There's an exponential curve of cost vs quality. Buying in the bend is best. The difference between a $50 and $200 pair of headphones is staggering. From $200 to $500 is still significant. From $500 to $1000 is extremely slight. From $1000 to $5000 is basically unnoticeable.

Apple looks to be using plastic driver cones more at home in a $30 pair of headphones while selling something at the inflection point where headphones get really good.

I'd bet heavily that these $500 headphones get outperformed by the $100 Sennheiser HD 280 pros. A $400 Sennheiser 650 will no doubt blow them away while still being $150 cheaper.

gambiting5• 6 years ago

I mean, they do own Beats - they know exactly how to make headphones that are good enough quality and which sound nice for an average consumer. Now they can bundle that with some of their proprietary tech and that's how you can easily arrive at that price. No one will be comparing these with $500 Sennheisers because Sennheisers don't have all the features you'd buy these for.

mrtksn10• 6 years ago

There's an exponential curve of cost vs quality

No there isn't. The audiophile culture could be replaced with a form where you type how much money you have and it gives you the equipment that you are supposed to buy but this is not because of the costs but because the industry taught the market that it must be that way. Often, the difference of sound quality between high end and low end headphones comes from tiny bit of foam.

It's really about branding and market segmentation.

keymone• 6 years ago

Apple’s hardware game is very impressive in recent years. I’m prepared to be impressed further.

adolph2• 6 years ago

As a counter point, Apple is bringing computation closer to ears. The Sennheiser 650 is an analog cabled experience and will accurately reflect the upstream digital to analog conversion, typically made without regard to the destination device. If Apple can use on-ear computation to make a plastic driver cone sound like a more expensive material, why would you care about the materials used?

https://www.kenrockwell.com/audio/sennheiser/hd-650.htm

[edit]

Think for a moment about what is possible in a device as large as the Airpods Max. It could fit the guts of an Apple Watch, which can already stream audio via cell modem without a host computer (as long as you are using the Apple services).

https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT204691

clolege16• 6 years ago

A $400 Sennheiser 650 will no doubt blow them away while still being $150 cheaper.

Of course they will. But it's not fair to compare open backs with closed backs without a huge asterisk [0]

If you want the best sound quality for the buck, you usually need to go with open-backed (or simply “open”) headphones. The open (but uncomfortable) SR60 is probably the best value in the business, followed by the awesome DT-880, which is far better than everything in this review in both comfort and sound quality. But open headphones are like screen doors: they let all exterior noise in, and more importantly, they let all of your music out. This will annoy anyone around you, so it’s extremely inconsiderate to use open headphones in buses, trains, airplanes, shared offices, or anywhere else near other people, and it’s irresponsible to recommend them without this huge warning.

[0] https://marco.org/headphones-closed-portable

PartiallyTyped4• 6 years ago

The scale you are looking for is logarithmic.

andybak2• 6 years ago

I grew up listening to music on $20 dollar earphones (taking into account inflation). In later life I've upped my limit to around $80. I thought that was extravagant.

I'm never going to come to grips with the concept of $500 headphones. It just seems insane.

sirn2• 6 years ago

I have $4,000 audio setup (Sennheiser HDV820 + Sennheiser HD800) and honestly a $500 Sennheiser HD650 plugged directly to a 3.5mm adapter sounds way more fun in everyday use. The exponential quality curve only goes up to certain point and beyond that it's all about the sound characteristic (HD800/S is good for classical/jazz) and how much the manufacturer is going charge for it.

That being said, I still use AirPods Pro a lot more than both HD800 and HD650 due to convenience of using it even though the sound quality is way worse. Fidelity isn't really much of a concern when I'm doing something else with background music.

I'm very excited about AirPods Max.

gowld• 6 years ago

The defining featre of an "exponential" curve is that there is no "bend". The bend is an illusion create by arbitrarily imposed scale. What there is, "quality that matters to to you" and "price you can afford", and you should ignore the part of the curve with too-high price and too-low quality.

ghaff• 6 years ago

That's true of a ton of things in audio, video, and lots of other things. Pros and enthusiasts spend thousands on gear that makes a tiny difference in experience, output quality, etc. It makes sense in some situations. But a lot of people who have the money also just overspend.

gumby• 6 years ago

Apple looks to be using plastic driver cones

How is this apparent by looking at the stock photos of the assembled product?

What factors make a better cone?

nomeddie• 6 years ago

You are paying more for the design and user experience with Apple. Sure, there is always something better though I doubt many listen to music that is of sufficient enough quality via their devices to hear the difference or had a really good pair to compare it to. Beats headphones proved that audio quality is not always what moves the market.

spaceisballer• 6 years ago

I’m curious of what is the quantifiable difference between those price brackets. It’s especially confusing to me how people are buying in ear headphones and spending hundreds of dollars and somehow getting a better sound than $50 ones.

bzzzt2• 6 years ago

Your Sennheiser examples are wired headphones which are (essentially) unpowered speakers.

The Apple one is technically a lot more complex with a good bluetooth chip (especially compared to the rest of the bluetooth offerings), some digital signal processing to make the 'simple' speakers sound better, a battery (+charging circuit) for 20 hours of wireless playback and a gyroscope to adjust the sound stage to your movement (and gives a decent Atmosphere representation).

I presume a big part of the price of these high-tech cans is contributed by research and software development, not by materials...

c1b• 6 years ago

Both AirPods that have been released have already been wayyyyy better than every “established” earbud product in their price category. Don’t see why you would assume that AirPods Max would all of a sudden be worse.

simias3• 6 years ago

The difference between a $50 and $200 pair of headphones is staggering.

You fall exactly for the trap the parent is talking about. "$50 earphones" and "$200 earphones" is meaningless. There are many reasons why earphones can be more or less expensive, many of which have nothing to do with audio quality. Things like wireless support, quality of the materials used and whatever brand is embossed on it. My $50 "studio" AKG 240 are probably as good as many $200 earphones, but they're all plastic and not wireless.

UncleMeat2• 6 years ago

What does outperformed mean?

Beats by Dre sell incredibly well in large part because they are a fashion statement. They also have cranked bass, which aggravates people who want accurate response but sounds great to people who put them on in a shop and hear "wow, this one sounds different".

Apple products have long been sold as fashion and status symbols alongside their tech specs. Then they add the ease of integration into their ecosystem. Is that really the same as being "outperformed"?

adembudak• 6 years ago

Logorithmic

janekm• 6 years ago

Have another look at that internals picture (which is a render so take it with a grain of salt), they appear to be using an extremely unconventional arrangement of a rigid cone driven by two linear motors mounted at 45 degree angles to the driver axis. A rigid cone is challenging but a goal in many high-priced designs (less so for headphones but definitely in speaker drivers with say carbon fibre drivers).

Dual actuators mounted like that could be interesting for spatial audio and may also be used to overcome some of the challenges with suspending rigid driver cones.

In other words it should be interesting to see the reviews...

JohnBooty7• 6 years ago

When it comes to high-end speaker/headphones drivers, plastic and/or paper are the preferred materials. Metal is not inherently superior in this application. It is different, not better. Stiffer materials are more resistant to cone breakup but that is not really an issue in tiny headphone drivers. Some headphone makers probably choose metal drivers for marketing reasons, because (as we see on this thread) consumers understandably think that metal is better than plastic.

    $100 Sennheiser HD 280 pros. A $400 Sennheiser 650 
    will no doubt blow them away

Sure, lets look at the 650's objective performance.

https://reference-audio-analyzer.pro/en/report/hp/sennheiser...

https://www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/s...

A +6dB hump at 5khz, followed by a (checks notes) -12dB (!!!) dip between there and 10khz.

You may enjoy that sound, but it is (in a literal sense) not high fidelity. Above 4khz those Sennheisers do random things to the frequency response that an individual may or may not find enjoyable. And above 7khz it starts to become a simulation of high frequency hearing loss. I would probably enjoy it, because my old ears aren't great in the treble region.

More to the point, we're comparing active DSP EQ'd headphones (the Apples) to a bunch of passive models. Physical construction of the drivers becomes less relevant when you can use onboard EQ to bend the frequency response however you like, and you don't have to worry about making your headphones' impedance curve work with a ridiculous array of amplifiers because it is mated to a known onboard amplifier.

Now, I'm not claiming that the AirPods Max will be headphones to buy. I really don't like the sound of Bluetooth headphones in general, with the caveat that I haven't heard Sony's near-lossless LDAP codec. But these seem like a reasonable value proposition if you want wireless and a bunch of Apple-specific convenience features and you're in the market to drop a few hundred on some headphones that you might use for several thousand hours.

tarsinge3• 6 years ago

What is the difference you are noticing? What is the performance you are talking about? It's the exact problem the parent is talking about, people have no idea so they talk about price.

globular-toast• 6 years ago

Apple is my hero in that regard, where you actually pay for the product experience

What do you think the audiophiles are paying for? The only difference here is that you appreciate white boxes and thin devices rather than gold-plated connectors and oxygen-free cables. You like your thing but don't like theirs.

buildbuildbuild3• 6 years ago

Be careful not to equate pro audio equipment with “overpaying audiophile” gear. Spending $500+ on headphones is common for engineers and musicians alike (typically custom fitted IEMs).

Studios and professionals spend large sums on demonstrably better equipment. You won’t find many who identify as “audiophiles” in the “$1000 optical cable” definition of the word.

AirPods Max are headphones lacking a headphone port. They will not be used by audio professionals. Latency is avoided at all costs in studio, on stage.

Apple’s new headphones are a fashion statement. To some, wearing a new release conveys status. You know how much it costs and they own it. The price of a Porsche might appall you too.

Reason0775• 6 years ago

"AirPods Max are headphones lacking a headphone port."

Not entirely. A 1.2m headphone-to-lightning cable is available for $35.

diabeetusman• 6 years ago

I'm not an audio engineer or a musician but I got custom IEMs and they were a great decision for me. My ears don't work with the majority of in-ear style audio devices out there for some reason-- my left ear is fine but everything falls out of my right.

Back when I flew a lot, I could have my IEMs in but not listening to anything and I could barely hear the engines. There was a crying baby behind me and I didn't know until I took them out (while listening to music almost as quietly as my phone would go).

It goes without saying, but they're also incredibly comfortable too.

paultopia3• 6 years ago

I like this. Headphones as wine, basically.

JohnBooty7• 6 years ago

     I always find the audiophile market to be borderline 
     fraud. They sell CD demagnetisers, ceramic cable lifters 
     and all sorts of items that don't make any sense whatsoever.

I, too, find that stuff abhorrent.

The good news is that many, if not most audiophiles do as well. There are a lot of objectivity-minded audiophiles who reject that snake oil stuff with a passion.

The fact is that basic audio reproduction -- which is essentially just signal reproduction -- is engineering, not art, and has been pretty much worked out for decades. We know what sounds good and we know how to make it happen. Long story short: reproducing the signal as accurately as possible, with a slight shift to emphasize bass frequencies (Google "Harman Curve") is what sounds good. Floyd Toole and Sean Olive are names to research if you want to know more.

As an example of grass-roots efforts in support of objective audiophile-dom, one example would be this guy's site, full of detailed measurements of various gear: http://audiosciencereview.com

The perception of audiophiles has become a bit wacky over the years. Essentially, in the 70s/80s/90s, the stereo magazines became dependent on advertising from snake oil purveyors, and therefore weren't really free to decry that stuff. And then the media tends to focus on the really wacky fraud crap like CD demagnetizers and the like. That stuff exists, but that is the lunatic fringe and the rest of us laugh at it.

warnick• 6 years ago

thank you and i totally agree

Dumblydorr• 6 years ago

Your last paragraph could easily apply to Apple fans and their unjustified love of Apple products.

Any fandom or hobby has over the top individuals who spend 10X the effort for 0-10% gains. Just like there are people who install their own electrical pole and transformer for audio equipment, there are apple universe devotees who claim they need all the added features and then just browse the web.

jariel• 6 years ago

"instead for being part of some deeply troubling subculture where passionately debating about very expensive cables and gadgets without ever being able to pass a blind test on the claims is the norm, almost like cargo cult."

That sounds like Apple though ...'I pay for fewer ports!'

caconym_• 6 years ago

At or below around $1k, price is a decent proxy for sound quality in headphones if you stay away from the trashy consumer stuff e.g. Beats, Raycons. Audiophile snake oil crap (e.g. ionic crystal cable risers, brass pyramids, $10k USB cables) isn’t really part of the same market.

High quality wireless headphones tend to come with a price premium and sound not quite as good, which seems fair since they are generally closed-back and have to drive a DAC and amp off a relatively small battery. At $549 these had better sound really good but I wouldn’t necessarily expect hur-dur-six-hundo level of audio quality.

Generally I find the “Apple tax” worth paying for consumer gear if it’s something I can actually make use of. I’ll be very interested to see how these stack up, but unless they’re the second coming of headphone Jesus I already have enough headphones.

dep_b• 6 years ago

I don't get replies like this. I tried a bunch of high-end headphones through a switchable amp and I bought the one I thought had the best qualities I was looking for. There was a clear and huge difference in quality and character between each headphone but I didn't need the most expensive one (Sennheiser 650 I believe) because it sounded too nice for my purpose (studio). Went for the BD 990's instead.

Distortion and frequency response graphs are pretty important but not the only important thing in terms of sounds quality. And sometimes you want speakers or cans that simply look cool or have a certain size.

capnorange• 6 years ago

yeah, seems similar to the shutterbugs. Blind camera tests have widely different opinion - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kbeEkwlTeqQ.

dheera• 6 years ago

I don't think you need to be an audiophile to notice that my $160 Beyerdynamic DT880 would blow any AirPods out of the water in terms of sound quality. And also comfort honestly.

zepto7• 6 years ago

Presumably you haven’t actually tried the AirPods Max yet.

teleforce• 6 years ago

I guess the expensive headphones price is not that bad if compared to the valve or vacuum tube amplifier :-)

grecy• 6 years ago

I always find the audiophile market to be borderline fraud

There's nothing borderline about it. That test proved nobody could hear the difference between super expensive monster cables or twisted coat hangers.

https://gizmodo.com/audiophile-deathmatch-monster-cables-vs-...

hindsightbias2• 6 years ago

I've never met an audiophile who would be surprised by that. They'd regard Monster the way IPA drinkers think of Michelob Ultra Pure Gold.

jacquesm3• 6 years ago

You can leave out the 'borderline'. Oh, and 'gold plated' is a synonym for 'you are being ripped off' as well as 'you are clueless'.

rectang• 6 years ago

Former mastering engineer here. Discussing audio gear in any open online forum is pretty hopeless. Any conversation will eventually be dominated by people who misunderstand (often willfully) the human perceptual mechanism and its propensity for illusion.

It's possible to talk about effects on the edge of perception: the protocols for the tests by which perceptual codecs are assessed and incrementally improved had to be designed somehow. But you basically cannot have such conversations unless every participant accepts their own fallibility and blind testing as the price of admission, which is only going to happen with a closed group.

ksk4• 6 years ago

It seems you you are a huge fan of Apple, but you haven't explained what Apple is doing here that is interesting or unique.You can have any opinion you want, but I don't think you understand what the audiophile market or community is. There is nothing "deeply troubling" about buying a Sennheiser HD600 or an AKG K702 or buying a DAC or an AMP to listen to audio if you enjoy doing that.

I would't usually have problem with such things but they often slide into extremism and quickly pushing you on the money-spend-for-audio-performance scale where you are simply supposed to check you bank account to see what sound quality you are about to get.

You can say that about anything. CPUs, GPUs, Expensive low latency memory Memory, high performance cars, etc, etc, etc. If you chase high-end performance you end up paying a lot for diminishing returns.

no-dr-onboard• 6 years ago

"you actually pay for the product experience instead for being part of some deeply troubling subculture"

I appreciate your larger argument but this statement is ironic in light of your previous paragraph :/.

IME (with time as an Apple software engineer) the Apple subculture _is_ a deeply troubling subculture. Take the iPhone for example: small, insignificant iterations that demand a premium. Consider the litany of software flaws that line BigSur and Catalina? What is the end consumer truly gaining with this new iteration? Would you respond "product experience"? Yet Apple appears to be doing well YoY with their returns on these products.

I'm particularly fond of your phrasing though: "cargo cult". Again, ironically applicable to Apple.

mrtksn10• 6 years ago

What I like about Apple fanboy subculture is that it's generally positive. Apple fans can get smirky when discussing Apple but would't chase down and brigate, turning every discussion about competitors into "We are smart Apple elites but good for you for trying". Competitor hateboys are not common among Apple fanboys.

On the other hand they would be always targeted by people who are not in the Apple ecosystem, usually called sheep and explained how they are supposed to not be happy with the product they bought.

For me, Apple is the company that cares about experience design as primary concern and that's why I care about what they are doing. It's intellectually stimulating, much more than chasing the random metric that somehow everyone decided that it's the number to look for. For example, lately everyone would talk about bezel to screen ratio. Previously it was Ghz, Megapxels, core numbers and what not.

hatsunearu• 6 years ago

I always find the audiophile market to be borderline fraud.

Not all of it is crap.

criley2• 6 years ago

Apple is my hero in that regard, where you actually pay for the product experience instead for being part of some deeply troubling subculture where passionately debating about very expensive cables and gadgets without ever being able to pass a blind test on the claims is the norm, almost like cargo cult.

The lack of self-perception here is astonishing.

FYI, for those of us outside of the cult-of-Apple who watch how Apple sells phones with a bill of materials of $300 for $900+ to people who see them as a status symbol and a community of high-end influencers, we view Apple exactly as you describe here

The way you describe Apple as "selling an EXPERIENCE" instead of selling headphones perfectly demonstrates how the Apple cult transcends a product market and speaks emotionally to the Apple cult. You aren't buying headphones, you're buying into the Apple Experience(TM).

And finally I want to take a small laugh at the fact that you describe "THEM" as a creepy subculture and cargo cult, while in the same breath calling the Apple corporation "Your Hero"!! Cargo Cult is a great way to describe how we view you and your hero Apple.

carabiner• 6 years ago

Apple is my hero in that regard, where you actually pay for the product experience instead for being part of some deeply troubling subculture where passionately debating about very expensive cables and gadgets without ever being able to pass a blind test on the claims is the norm, almost like cargo cult.

I give you the $539 leather watch band: https://www.apple.com/shop/product/MTQG2AM/A/apple-watch-her.... The $699 wheels: https://www.apple.com/shop/product/MX572ZM/A/apple-mac-pro-w...

I think Apple is very complicit in the cargo cult and charging bullshit prices for fashionable items.

whynaut4• 6 years ago

I give you the $539 leather watch band: https://www.apple.com/shop/product/MTQG2AM/A/apple-watch-her.... The $699 wheels: https://www.apple.com/shop/product/MX572ZM/A/apple-mac-pro-w...

The wheels are wild, but the watch band is Hermès. Their watches start at 3k. What would you have expected?

zenexer• 6 years ago

I would say there are two types of audiophile communities:

1. The sort that’s just looking to show off or is completely obsessed, without paying much regard to the enjoyment of the audio itself.

2. The sort that just wants to enjoy music.

The communities that fall into category #2 are great. They’ll give advice such as:

- Don’t waste money on X when you could buy Y for a fraction of the price. You’re unlikely to notice a difference.

- No, humans can’t differentiate between properly-encoded MP3 320 and lossless. It’s physically impossible, and I’ll show you how to conduct a double-blind test to prove it.

- Yes, X is better than Y, but it’s also a lot more expensive. Start with Y; if you’re really not satisfied, you can upgrade, but chances are Y is good enough.

- Why on earth would you buy that cable? Just get some cheap crap from Amazon. It’s a digital signal anyway.

- Balanced analog signals don’t benefit from expensive cables.

- Unbalanced analog signals don’t benefit from snake oil, which includes pretty much any cable over 20 bucks.

- If you’re enjoying your music, don’t mess with it. Stop trying to impress people.

- Don’t buy $500 headphones from Apple. Amended: Don’t buy $500 headphones.

- No, those $500 Apple headphones aren’t going to help you as an artistic professional—you need reference speakers, which those definitely are not. They’re designed to make even the crappiest audio sound like unicorn farts.

- Are you regularly flying first class and need something to dampen the screams of children? Get whatever makes you happy, but $500 is probably excessive.

nimih• 6 years ago

they will talk in terms of money(i.e. 150$ headphones vs 500$ headphones) when talking about audio quality.

Isn't this the same as computer nerds talking about how much they're spending on their graphics card or their motherboard or whatever? I agree with your overall assessment of audiophile nonsense, but higher quality components and manufacturing processes cost money, so there's a limit to how good a $60 pair of headphones will sound (and hold up over time, for that matter) vs a $200 pair. In particular, it's not like folks who care about the quality of their audio equipment are _actually_ fixating on the price itself; brands like Bose are poorly regarded _precisely because_ their headphones have noticeably worse sound quality (and, in my own limited experience, fall apart faster) than the competition at any particular price point.

mrtksn10• 6 years ago

I agree but my point is that it doesn't have to be like that and I have distaste towards fixating the overall product experience on the "sound quality per $" metric. Any product that emphasises on anything beyond that metric is talked down and its users are branded as "uneducated suckers". It's impossible to explain that you want a headphone that looks good, is light, can fold, can connect easily etc. They are extremists that prey on balanced products and people like those.

That's why I like what Apple is doing: earphones/headphones designed with overall experience in mind.

saltminer• 6 years ago

Isn't this the same as computer nerds talking about how much they're spending on their graphics card or their motherboard or whatever?

GPUs have measurable performance benefits. Many people tend to buy more expensive parts than they need and there are diminishing returns (justified as "futureproofing"), but at the end of the day you can easily run reproducible benchmarks to determine exactly how much performance you bought.

Audio quality is much more subjective and there's a whole lot of snake oil. You can certainly recognize a higher quality pair of cans to an extent, but price is not necessarily correlated with quality.

tlrobinson• 6 years ago

Apple is my hero in that regard, where you actually pay for the product experience instead for being part of some deeply troubling subculture where passionately debating about very expensive cables and gadgets without ever being able to pass a blind test on the claims is the norm, almost like cargo cult.

Out of the frying pan, into the fire: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reality_distortion_field

I’m joking, I’m a lifelong Apple fan, but this comment was amusing given the long history of people calling the Apple subculture a “cult”.

dang2• 6 years ago

(This subthread was originally a child of https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25345134.)

vinay_ys• 6 years ago

I was an Apple Music subscriber listening music on AirPods until I bought a pair of studio reference monitors for 700 USD equivalent (Yamaha HS8). The joy of listening for hours without pain or fatigue from these while WFH is great. These ays my AirPods run out of battery and cut out in the middle of a meeting. The need for all kinds of portable battery powered devices have significantly gone down while working from home.

tarsinge3• 6 years ago

Modern music is usually heavily distorted on purpose at the mix step, I mean what's the point of buying equipment with high fidelity to listen to layered synth or auto-tuned voices? Recording engineers don't use audiophile gear, and it's no surprise when you have seen a typical guitar signal chain. Being able to discern instruments and layers with clarity and definition take years, yet I'm always amazed at what people failing to recognize the most basic things or issues, or do a basic EQ, will spend money on.

sound1• 6 years ago

now you are talking like an audiophile yourself - just kidding :-)

there are people who appreciate high quality audio vs people who want 'seamless audio experience' vs snake oil addicts. They all are completely different things.

m0002• 6 years ago

Do AirPods Max support NFC for turning on and pairing? Sony supports it already since MDR-1000X (first-gen 1000-series), and it's the best thing since sliced bread.

ashneo76• 6 years ago

You know how I easily switch my audio across devices? I unplug and plug in. That simple. I am still using my panasonic headphones from 12 years ago. I got them for $120.

pram2• 6 years ago

wow! 12 years... and only $120?? you should be very proud! what a remarkable achievement, thanks for sharing

pcdoodle• 6 years ago

After my experience with the gen 1 pods that I bought for exclusively for SITTING ON HOLD that never worked right (crackly, pairing sucks, won't wake up, etc.), no way in hell will I give apple any of my money.

salimmadjd• 6 years ago

For those of you who follow the industry closely. Is this a prelude to Apple’s VR glasses?

Using the gyroscope and accelerometer in AirPods Max and iPhone or iPad, spatial audio tracks the motion of a user’s head as well as the device, compares the motion data, then remaps the sound field so it stays anchored to the device, even as the user’s head moves.

Pulcinella• 6 years ago

It seems like it, at least as a trial run if the audio features. You don’t need the gyroscope and accelerometer to do HRTF (e.g. like the PS5 does, for example). Indeed it actually doesn’t make much sense to me for a static screen like watching a movie on an iPad or TV. I don’t want the audio to shift every time I slightly move my head or body into a more comfortable position.

Those features do make sense for hypothetical AR glasses where you move around a space with objects emitting sounds.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Head-related_transfer_functi...

AndrewStephens• 6 years ago

Ding Ding Ding, we have the correct answer. These headphones are way over-engineered even by Apple standards. There is no reason for headphones to have a gyroscope/accelerator combination except to enable VR or AR audio in conjunction with their existing ARKit.

From my reading of the quoted paragraph, it appears these headphones will play system sounds (alerts, siri, etc) in such a way that they appear to emanate from the paired device - a very neat trick. If the headphones can do that then it is a short jump to making sounds appear to come from ARKit objects moving in real space.

ericpauley• 6 years ago

Keep in mind the Airpods Pro also have a gyroscope and accelerometer.

metafunctor• 6 years ago

Nah. At least on the AirPods Pro, there appears to be no real positional tracking.

Try this. Watch something on, say, an iPad with spatial audio enabled. Turning your head left and right moves the audio so it appears to be coming from the iPad. Works great. Then turn your head, and keep it turned for a few seconds. The audio will gradually slide to where your nose is pointing, and will not stay anchored to the device for long.

It seems to me it's assuming that if your head is still, you must be looking directly at the screen, and recalibrates. The position estimates seem to be computed using accelerometers and not absolute positional tracking. Alternatively, it is actually tracking absolute positions but assumes that you want a "centered" audio experience even though the iPad is to your side. I think the former explanation is more plausible.

Also, try moving laterally to the iPad, so that you are no longer looking directly at the iPad. It will still keep your audio entered.

marbletiles• 6 years ago

No wireless charging, less space than a Nomad. And even more expensive than an iPod.

lal00• 6 years ago

Would they work with a PS4 or Xbox? That would make them more attractive to me.

coolandsmartrr• 6 years ago

It should be compatible with standard Bluetooth 5.0. It would be attractive to use with PS5 that has a SPU specifically for spacial audio.

qz2• 6 years ago

My 20 year old Sennheiser HD25’s are tutting at this release.

I will keep them for the desk and my existing standard AirPods for outside.

partyboat1586• 6 years ago

On first take I thought this was satire. Looks like one of those fake mockups of new Apple products.

patagonia• 6 years ago

“AirPods Max require Apple devices...” Whelp that was the push I needed to move to a different phone manufacturer.

helen___keller• 6 years ago

I can respect apple's strategy. For someone like me, who likes convenience but isn't particularly obsessed with sound or sound quality, this release exists to frame Airpods and Airpods Pro as "value" options.

Personally, however, I'm actively working on moving away from this ecosystem. I've felt like every purchase is a lose/lose for a while now. I can't deny that Apple products offer a superior experience in almost every category, but feeling like I'm getting ripped off every time I buy is miserable, that's just not how I want to live life. I used to love apple stores, now they just remind me of nearly-mandatory $200 storage upsells.

ziml775• 6 years ago

This was my thought as well on one possible strategy they were trying here. Make the in-ear AirPods and their Beats line look like a good deal.

Apple continues to be highly successful, so chances are they do know what they're doing with the pricing here.

csomar3• 6 years ago

Linux and custom-built hardware are a class of their own if you are looking to move. You can have the full experience by developing on Linux with cheap and powerful custom boxes and have a MacBook Air/iPad and an iPhone for the rest of your everyday stuff. At least that's my plan and the path Apple seems to be taking.

rusticpenn2• 6 years ago

I am moving from Android to Apple ecosystem. I got an IPAD air 2 in 2015-16 and it still works without any hiccups, I had changed 3 Android phones in this time. Happy with my iPhone SE2 now.

gwd4• 6 years ago

Actually I'm surprised nobody's asking about a wired headphone jack. Without one, you won't be able to watch movies on planes, which is a pretty significant use case for over-the-ear noise-cancelling headphones. Probably gaming as well -- I don't do a ton of gaming, but StarCraft basically doesn't work over Bluetooth (probably due to buffering requirements).

red2awn• 6 years ago

Well if you are the type of guy to buy this headphone, you'd probably also own a macbook to watch movies on.

AlanYx5• 6 years ago

They quietly released a wired lightning to wired headphone jack cable today to go with these, for use on planes, etc.

kristofferR• 6 years ago

Bluetooth is enabled while in Airplane mode, so I don't get your point frankly.

Gaming latency is true though - when I use Bluetooth headphones on my TV, Game Mode gets automatically disabled.

gwd4• 6 years ago

I was talking about watching movies on the seat-back in-flight entertainment system. I don't those will connect to bluetooth headphones yet -- at least not on the class of seat that I buy. :-)

ascagnel_3• 6 years ago

Apple rolled out a low-latency audio feature a few weeks ago -- if you have a HomePod/pair of HomePods set as your primary output on your ATV4K, they're able to stay in sync with the TV even when you're doing something where any audio latency would be noticeable. For example, if I'm streaming a game from my PC, video and audio are in lockstep (which you wouldn't expect to see normally, since the audio would get 1-2s of buffer from the video) and there's no noticeable input latency (which you'd see if the device was holding back the video to build an audio buffer).

cjbconnor• 6 years ago

There's a $35 lightning to 3.5mm you can buy as an addon

ZekeSulastin• 6 years ago

At least in the US domestic market, it seems like every airline just does in-flight streaming to your own phone or tablet now anyways :p

userbinator• 6 years ago

The name sounds like a shoe.

zcw100• 6 years ago

I think this is actually a fantastic place for Apple. I'm happy to trash Apple where appropriate and I've got plenty of complaints. I think Apple does it's best when the integration of hardware and software is really important and there is a very low tolerance for, I won't say bugs, but issues.

They're headphones. I want to put them on and they need to make noise. I'm not dealing with connectivity issues, battery issues, etc. Sure they're $500 but when Apple gets it right I'm happy to pay $500 for something that works than $300 for the first try that I eventually stop using because of some issue or another then another try at $350 for something a little better only to finally throw in the towel an pay the $500 to Apple that might not be perfect but hits it on enough points that I want to use them.

Battery, I need to be able to easily and quickly know what the status is and I need to know that if I plugged them in before I go to bed I'll be good to go all day, the next day and I don't have to think about charging.

Connectivity. When I go to use them I need them to connect and work. No fiddling around with loss of connection or not connecting in the first place.

With the spatial audio they're actually cheap if you figure I'm done with any Dolby Atmos, 9.1, 7.1, 5.1 etc stand alone setup. I'm watching movies with this. I'm tired of all the speakers, decoder, amp, wires, sub, constant upgrades. Compare this to even the least expensive stand alone 5.1 system and it's a very inexpensive alternative.

cactus20939• 6 years ago

Having paid $350 for Bose QC3 headphones 4 years ago, that I use every day but sometimes have to fight with when e.g. my MacBook Pro keeps trying to steal focus even though i shut it and am trying to use the headphones with my phone now, etc. I completely agree. Paying a bit more for something that just works as well as my airpods do, assuming that this delivers, is totally worth it.

On top of that, I expect the sound quality will be a big step up, and the spatial audio might be really cool.

theNJR2• 6 years ago

I see you’ve never used AirPods between multiple devises. It’s become a lot better in the last year, but that’s only because it started out infuriating.

QC3s were much better than AirPods at multi device up until a recent update.

jseliger• 6 years ago

You describe me well: I don't use mine every day, but I use them often, and in particular for work calls. If the microphone is great, and the call audio quality too, I'll probably get a pair at some point.

nashashmi• 6 years ago

Paying a bit more for something that just works ...

You hit a nerve with me on this one. I have heard this line all too often to encourage people spend more money. In this case it is not “a bit more”. But a whole lot more.

Pricing needs to be brought to levels of sanity. The reason we are seeing ridiculous prices like these is because millennials don’t pay attention to prices or there is way too much credit in the market or because the gap between rich and poor is getting larger and larger.

I understand the whole paying more for something that works better. I do. But this argument is often used by those who are terribly inexperienced at life, like a copy and paste of a rich experienced person’s take, only they don’t have money like the experienced person does.

neuronic• 6 years ago

Nice alternative for someone with no other living human around.

rootusrootus6• 6 years ago

Or the alternative, lots of other living humans around who aren't interested in the full audio experience for a movie they're not watching.

bdcravens5• 6 years ago

Apple's integration story is what keeps me, and I suspect others, firmly entrenched.

friday992• 6 years ago

Thanks for pointing out the spatial audio. It amazes me all the comments about price but not discussing what features these actually have. Dynamic head tracking for spatial audio could be really amazing and is not cheap to implement. These aren't just some "dumb" headphones with speakers in them. I'm really interested in trying these out on the Xbox X which has Dolby Atmos on a big screen and hearing the sounds move as you look around. Also, imagine silent discos with the DJ streaming in Atmos as you move around. Now if only there was a widely adopted open spatial audio standard instead of Atmos...

OkGoDoIt2• 6 years ago

I believe you only get special audio with paired to an iOS device which also includes an accelerometer. So basically iPad and iPhone. Any third-party devices don’t get special audio, as far as I’m aware.

kodisha• 6 years ago

Wouldn't that require that music producers start producing music in spatial audio in the first place, no?

And what would their incentive for something like that be?

jkubicek2• 6 years ago

Dynamic head tracking spacial audio is available today with the Airpods Pro and it is amazing. Watching surround-sound TV with spacial audio enabled is basically indistinguishable from watching TV with a surround sound system and no headphones, to the point where I have to check to make sure the audio is playing through my headphones and not external speakers.

Downside is that it only works with iPhone, iPad and AppleTV 4k. It's such an amazing upgrade over my current setup, though, that I'm planning on upgrading to an AppleTV 4K so that I'm not limited to using spatial audio on just my iPad.

jordache7• 6 years ago

With the spatial audio they're actually cheap if you figure I'm done with any Dolby Atmos, 9.1, 7.1, 5.1 etc stand alone setup. I'm watching movies with this.

Spatial audio is a replacement of true surround sound to you? it's a gimmicky weird audio effect to me. Zero sense of sound source behind or in front of me.

jandrewrogers2• 6 years ago

Humans have limited ability to discriminate between directly in front and directly in back based solely on cues encoded in the audio. It is a well-known ambiguity in how we hear space along that narrow axis. How you arrange the sound sources doesn't matter much. Research has demonstrated that human perception of a sound being "front" or "back" is determined by non-aural sensory cues. Specifically, if you can see a plausible sound source in front of you, you will hear it in front of you. Front-to-back spatial discrimination is based almost entirely on the visual cortex providing a model of the space in which the sound notionally exists.

In practice, humans subconsciously compensate for ambiguous front/back spatial positioning by turning their heads, putting the sound source on an axis where they do have excellent spatial discrimination. For obvious reasons this doesn't work well for headphones. Unless, of course, you have some kind of head tracking built into them.

tjoff2• 6 years ago

You know what doesn't have a battery never had any connectivity issues (before apple) and just works?

The 3.5mm jack.

I'm all for options though! But apple don't so I guess it doesn't matter.

rootusrootus6• 6 years ago

I will tell you this, I do not miss headphone cords at all. Not one bit. I don't miss the cord snagging on parts of my desk, or my legs, or the arms of my office chair, or under the casters, etc.

Not to mention cord noise on IEMs, which admittedly isn't really a problem on over-the-ear headphones anyway.

I'll probably never buy another pair of corded headphones.

FroshKiller2• 6 years ago

I've had my share of connectivity issues with corded headphones, like pulling the cord out of the jack accidentally, breaking the wire inside the cord, not being able to walk away from the device I'm connected to without taking off the headphones, etc.

scpedicini3• 6 years ago

Unfortunately your average consumer is not going to miss the inclusion of a 3.5 mm audio jack, but it really sucks if you're a musician.

There are a bunch of really good soft synthesizer apps for iOS that work with a midi keyboard but Bluetooth latency makes them virtually unplayable. With a standard 3.5 mm jack it's not an issue. You can buy a dongle but that's just one more piece of complexity.

newbie20202• 6 years ago

Yeah this is why it has been hard for me to pull the trigger and actually commit to wireless headphones. Except for the wire part, these are great! Removing that little wire apparently makes this a difficult engineering challenge.

visarga• 6 years ago

I'm not dealing with connectivity issues, battery issues, etc. Sure they're $500

My AirPods often have bluetooth issues, even when coupled to a MacBook, not just any laptop. They fail at the basic function of making sound.

runawaybottle5• 6 years ago

Yeah, I have no idea where people are getting the whole seamless wireless connectivity experience idea from. AirPods are pretty much awful in terms of connecting. It’s a little better than regular Bluetooth because of the case which gives a lot of visual feedback when you open it, but that’s mostly to trick your senses into not realizing it’s still just a shitty bluetooth headphone that takes forever to connect.

deergomoo4• 6 years ago

In my experience AirPods work like magic 99% of the time, but the 1% that they don’t is infuriating.

If you have any issues all you can do is the “put them back in the case and hope that kicks them back in line” dance, to mixed effect.

comandillos• 6 years ago

My experience with the AirPods Pro is far from being smooth. Random disconnections, sometimes L or R do not connect, cannot use microphone and listen to music...

Tired of them. Bought a pair of Beyerdynamic with a 3,5mm jack and not even a single issue... For about 150$...

gravelc• 6 years ago

My (Apple) Powerbeats Pro work about 50% of the time. A really bad design flaw with the tiny contacts means that 1 of the pair frequently doesn't charge in the case after a few minutes.

Go to use them for a run and one is often flat. Or my phone will try and connect to the non-charging one in the case, leaving me with no sound when I'm not actually using ear phones.

Some Apple stuff is great - but 'it just works' is a myth.

low_common• 6 years ago

I bought a $100 pair of bluetooth Sennheisers that have a battery life that seems to be measured not in hours, but in days. I use them all day every day while working in the office, at home, or coffee shop. Music sounds great and so do movies. Never have to worry about the bluetooth connnection, pairs to my Mac or to my work laptop just fine. And they got to me with Amazon Prime.

You do not need to spend $500 if all you need is headphones that do their job.

dahfizz3• 6 years ago

You do not need to spend $500 if all you need is headphones that do their job.

Its amazing to me the number of Apple fanboys in this thread that seem to think that every other pair of headphones out there is completely broken, and nothing will "just work". This has been a solved problem for like a decade.

dkonofalski21• 6 years ago

Why would you say something like that when these Apple headphones are not at all aimed at people that want headphones that do the bare minimum job and nothing else? Comparing your $100 Sennheisers to these misses the point completely.

TheBlerch• 6 years ago

They sound great - which model did you get?

mariushn2• 6 years ago

Which one? (can't see an over-the-ear model here)

https://en-us.sennheiser.com/bluetooth-headsets

_ph_• 6 years ago

Of course you don't need to spend $500 to buy headphones that do their job. There are plenty of great headphones to buy. For me, I have some beats flex which are great for small portable phones which also are well integrated with the Apple devices. Before them, I had some nice Sennheiser wired phones.

The promise of the Airpods Max is to be very high quality headphones, which are in that rough price range. On top of that the complete integration into the Apple universe and some nice functions like the spacial audio, which had been well received with the AirPods Pro. Which are much cheaper, if you are not aiming for the highest audio quality.

reaperducer6• 6 years ago

You spend hours in a coffee shop? Are you in Australia?

erikbye2• 6 years ago

If the audio quality would have been up to par, which it is not, $500 would be a bargain.

Audeze LCD-4z owners laughing at $500 being touted as expensive. Although, they will last a lot longer.

patrickdavey• 6 years ago

Can you say what model you've got? I haven't yet bought Bluetooth buds but when my tatty current wired ones die I probably will. I'd been thinking about Jabra's but I'll take whatever is cheap and works ;)

wheels• 6 years ago

Honestly, the Anker Soundcore Q10s are great. I have two pairs of studio monitor headphones on my desk (Sony MDR-V6 and BeyerDynamic DT770s) and I'm usually too lazy to put them on because the Q10s are good enough for anything but detailed audio work. They're $40, and often on sale for $30. I returned a pair of $230 Sony WH-1000XM3s because Sony has jumped the shark in the bass wars and you couldn't get them to sound reasonable without EQing the source. The $30 Q10s literally sound better.

kranner5• 6 years ago

Even $25 Sound Blaster JAMs tick all the boxes here. Battery lasts for days, ultra-reliable Bluetooth connection. The battery even stays at maximum capacity for years and the only thing that needs changing is the foam pads. I’ve gifted many of these to family over the years and they are all still working.

Obi_Juan_Kenobi• 6 years ago

Heck, even $40 true-wireless earbuds are now quite decent. They're reliable and sound quality is perfectly fine for what I want from it.

Considering the tiny batteries make these disposable items, it's pretty compelling.

loco5niner• 6 years ago

You do not need to spend $100 dollars either.

bigbubba• 6 years ago

Yeah my sennheiser HD 4.40 seem to last a week or more on a charge, with several hours of use a day. This company hasn't disappointed me yet.

tomcam• 6 years ago

Model, please? Even though I did order the Apple headphones it’s always good to have a back up.

zwaps• 6 years ago

For what it is worth, I have the Sennheiser Momentum Bluetooth headset.

I am an audio weirdo who used a lot of professional headphones over the years, and I like the Sennheiser sound. Too often have I been disappointed by "premium brands" that are not really in the business of designing headphone drivers and so their sound is subpar.

These Sennheiser headphones switch sources automatically, they are made from metal and leather, they sound great, they have all the battery I need and, most importantly for me, they have actual buttons. After using other headphones without buttons, I can't tell you how much better I like that "feature".

I think Apple can make headway with noise cancellation, battery and ergonomics. That will be enough for most people.

However, for myself, I am most curious if they will actually sound good, especially given that their marketing quip on that topic is - well let's call it "more than a few empty phrases".

Let's see!

DevoidSimo• 6 years ago

In fact the only bluetooth issue I've had with my Sennheisers is that the bluetooth driver in my mac will crash most days. Requiring a restart.

CamJN• 6 years ago

I have a pair of Sennheiser Momentum 3 (the cans not the buds) and every fucking time I use them, the audio gets stolen by some device making a notification sound, and then does not go back to the call/video/whatever I'm actually trying to listen to. I'd not call that just fine.

jbverschoor• 6 years ago

I bought the airpods when they came out. After 1.5 years of use, I get 5! minutes of talktime. Apple says "tough luck". No more headphones from Apple for me.

philwelch2• 6 years ago

That’s 2 hours though.

diebeforei4856• 6 years ago

The original AirPods are really bad for speaking. Airpods 2 work much better.

kyriakos• 6 years ago

Bluetooth for audio is a solved problem. I recently bought 3 pairs of headphones, one pair no name Chinese, one pair of bose and oneplus buds. All 3 connect, switch devices (laptop, phone etc) seamlessly. I understand there may have been issues in the past but my experience the last year tells me otherwise.

jeanofthedead2• 6 years ago

Spatial Audio does not work with AppleTV4K, I'm afraid. It only works with compatible iPhones and iPads. This does not replace speakers, subs, etc.

fbelzile3• 6 years ago

I'm happy to pay $500 for something that works

Sure, if by "works" you mean "only works with other Apple products." The cost isn't just $500, it's also the opportunity cost of going with any other competing (and possibly better) product in the future. Apple's pricing is high, but is even higher if you account for the hidden hand of future buying power you give them. It's a brilliant business strategy as it limits your choice as a consumer for the lifetime of the headphones.

Say Apple decides to slow down your old iPhone again (what? no! [1])... Or maybe you just like the new Google Pixel. Sucks to be you, time to buy a new iPhone again ($$$) if you don't want your headphones to stop "just working."

[1] https://www.bbc.com/news/technology-51413724

_huayra_2• 6 years ago

It's always shocking how Apple folks adopt a reality distortion field when it comes to explaining their reasoning. Whether it's avoiding justifying the things they claim they get from Apple ("seamless device interop") or ignoring the way Apple actively treats their customers like hot garbage (see Louis Rossman's youtube channel, or the asinine arguments companies like Apple lead against right to repair and all the poor board layout and non-interchangeable parts), instead of saying a reasonable answer like "I'm willing to be ripped off because I like the shiny buttons" or "I have one specific app I use on MacOS that I haven't had the time to replicate elsewhere", it's always some kind of indignation.

If someone tells me my bargan-tier Samsung phone is slower than molasses, I'm not gonna say "yeah but I like the blue color". I'm gonna agree.

smileybarry• 6 years ago

Sure, if by "works" you mean "only works with other Apple products."

Case in point: my mom wants to buy AirPods, but she uses a Samsung Galaxy S10. I told her it'll work fine because Bluetooth, but that (at least originally) AirPods ship out with buggy firmware that needs updating. She'd need to find a friend with an iPhone just to update them to some current version before use. (And apparently even that is a UX nightmare with no real update button or indication)

SulfurHexaFluri9• 6 years ago

The old airpods work about as well as most bluetooth headphones on Android. The only part you lack is an official app to configure stuff like tap actions and updates.

TheOperator• 6 years ago

When you price out the TCO of staying in the Apple ecosystem... It's quite a bit more in yearly spend than other companies. Feels simply not worth it even with moderate earning power. Maybe I'd do it if I was making some of the wages I see around here :).

freewilly1040• 6 years ago

Sure, if by "works" you mean "only works with other Apple products."

Well, yeah, that is what people mean when they say this. I'm not seeing anyone here make the case that it's worthwhile if you're don't use other Apple products, or that it's not a giant hassle to switch out of Apple products. They just don't care as much about lock in as you.

gonehome5• 6 years ago

The iPhone 'slow down' was to keep the phone operating with old batteries. Without the throttling the phone would just shut down abruptly under certain conditions.

Part of the reason Apple has this issue at all is that they provide continued support for their hardware years after others have stopped even giving security updates.

Apple has also a multi-year lead on things like chip performance in their devices (and more subjectively hardware design, software performance too).

I used Android nexus phones for a few years before jumping into the Apple ecosystem with the iPhone 5 (I had used macs for a while prior to that since OS X 10.3 and played with a variety of linux distos alongside it).

If Apple stuff starts to degrade compared to competition it will be a hassle to jump to a different ecosystem. As it happens, over the years it's just gotten better further ahead of the competition (with some mistakes: butterfly keyboard, touchbar).

The premium and their authoritarian approach to vertical integration and good defaults isn't for everyone, but I think it's really great and worth the premium. Other companies seem to be all over the place without much of a unified vision of what they're doing. Google in particular is extremely bad at this.

wonnage2• 6 years ago

Many flagship Android phones followed Apple's lead and killed the headphone jack, so there's a lot of old headphones that no longer "just work".

Furthermore, Bluetooth sucks all around. It's 2020 and you still can't transmit voice without falling back to SCO and having everything sound like a tin can. SBC is barely passable for music, and has hundreds of ms of latency. So companies have already hacked their own various proprietary codecs. Ever hear of AptX or LDAC? They only work with Qualcomm and Sony licensing/devices. Imagine spending $400 on your new WH-1000XM4s only to find that LDAC doesn't work on any desktop OS.

I don't see Apple doing anything different here.

na852• 6 years ago

I want to put them on and they need to make noise.
I'm not dealing with connectivity issues, battery issues, etc.
Battery, I need to be able to easily and quickly know what the status is and I need to know that if I plugged them in before I go to bed I'll be good to go all day, the next day and I don't have to think about charging.
Connectivity. When I go to use them I need them to connect and work. No fiddling around with loss of connection or not connecting in the first place.

Wired headphones tick all these boxes. If not for Jony Ive's quest for a legacy and absurd fetish for thinner phones we wouldn't have to live the dongle life to have every feature you listed.

danShumway3• 6 years ago

Yeah, I don't want to get dragged into the whole debate about headphone jacks again, but as long as someone else is saying it... headphones worked! They always worked. You plugged them in and they reliably made sound, everywhere, with high-quality audio. This comment is surreal.

And yes, I get that a lot of people do want to use wireless headphones. I'm not here to argue about that, there are legitimate reasons why people want to get rid of wires. And I also get that these headphones are filled with other features like auto-pausing, noise cancelation. There are reasons someone might look at those features and think they're worth the price. But still -- to see the primary reaction be that the important part is "just working" still feels kind of validating to all of the people who originally called out Bluetooth headphones as a step backwards from where we were.

I remember getting a lot of pushback from people who were all telling me that wireless headphones were going to get really cheap, and most of the growing pains were already over, and we were all just being ludites. But what am I supposed to think when I look at your high-tech future world, and the most popular comment is someone saying that they'll drop 550 dollars on a pair of headphones before they've even heard them, even though they'll only last 3-5 years before the battery dies -- just because it's worth that much money to have a device that reliably plays sound? How am I supposed to look at that and not come to the conclusion that the wireless market is still wildly inferior to the cheap, reliable, high-quality audio devices that came before?

It's been however many years since Apple's removal of the headphone jack and practically every high-end Android manufacturer has since copied them. And what we see is headphones that are specifically designed to work with one brand of phone/computer, that are outrageously expensive, and apparently that expense is justified to some people because the entire rest of the market is filled with options that have minor-to-major irritations during daily use.

leokennis6• 6 years ago

I agree with the general "it's expensive but for that price it just works" statement.

For example, with AirPods Pro, you get automatic switching between devices, easy pairing, true wireless earbuds, wireless charging, great ANC and all that in an incredibly tiny package.

But with these AirPods Pro...do you see anything they do that others don't? They are not lighter. Their battery life isn't better. They're not objectively prettier. Their case looks worse. They don't charge wirelessly. There's not a lot of gain to be had in comfort as opposed to earbuds (competing headphones from Bose for example are plenty comfortable).

So...from what we already know, they have one thing others don't and that's the "magical" pairing and switching. And they are $250 more expensive.

This means either they sound incredibly fantastic, or they are way overpriced.

maerF0x0• 6 years ago

I agree with the general "it's expensive but for that price it just works" statement.

One thing a "disparity" (as in variety) of wealth creates is slices of populace where the value of the solution is worth vastly more. Tech that "just works" is one such place. People placing higher value on convenience ...

Another such place that is interesting is healthcare. Some portion of the market places longevity or health optimizations way beyond the traditional insurance models. They're willing to spend far and beyond the marginal savings from prevention to avoid health issues. An example might be taking expensive NMN/NR to potentially avoid future health issues, despite costing 100s per month.

eg: https://www.elysiumhealth.com/en-us/science-101/8-reasons-wh...

floatingatoll6• 6 years ago

The previous top-end for Apple's headphones was the ~$350 Beats Studio Wireless 3, which I've had a pair of the past three years. I often forget I'm wearing them when I've put them on just for noise canceling (without any music) until I bonk them with something, and their Bluetooth has been fine in use with a variety of Apple and non-Apple devices. Their biggest defect in my use has been that their folding mechanism leaves a slight indent on one point on the earcup foam. They're fine, but my desktop headphones have better quality (as they should, given the 5-10x increase in investment in them).

I expect that the $550 AirPods Max will be exceptional, and comparable in quality to my desktop headphones, which will be an achievement for anything portable and wireless. The flatpack case solves the non-portability of the Beats (which have a case the size of a watermelon), and they've removed the logo and reconstructed the earcups to not get tangled in long hair.

That's the kind of improvements I expected from Apple, and they appear to have delivered, at a price point that's about what I would expect for something that delivers impeccable audio (and sets them up for $150/$350/$550 market segments). The Studio beats are great, but these will be better. My biggest fear is that they'll be better than my desktop headphones. Works for me.

nvarsj2• 6 years ago

No, just no. I got so tired of my airpods not connecting randomly, automatically switching to other devices at random times, losing most of their charge after a year, and so on, that I literally just use a pair of wired airpods now and it works great. Oh, except that Apple decided iPads should have USB-C but not iPhones, so now I can't even use my lightning airpods on more than one device.

This Apple worship is the ultimate banality of consumerism. The Airpod max is about the dumbest thing I've ever seen Apple produce. I personally think it will be a big flop, but I guess we'll see.

nvarsj2• 6 years ago

I regret my response here as being overly dramatic. I think I got triggered by some of the obvious Apple worship going on. But my response isn't much better.

cosmodisk• 6 years ago

I've read your comment and most of it makes sense. Then I sat for a bit and all I got in my head was: ffs it's $500 for some headphones. To me, this is a poor man's luxury item. It reminds me when the latest and most expensive iPhone came out.Two people bought it: the CEO and the young woman who was on the lowest salary in the company. For one it was pocket change, for the other it was 2-3 weeks earnings.

nomy99• 6 years ago

the current airpod pro's don't "just work". On numerous occasions the right/left airpod gets unpaired. The charge level of each piece is independent, which is odd considering both are placed in/out of ear simultaneously. There are even issues with the UI on the iphone to show the charge level. I have to open/close between 2-3 times to be prompted with the screen.

Having said that, as a whole, the airpods do "just work" more than other bluetooth headphones, especially with the case that holds a charge.

soupson• 6 years ago

This is my experience as well. I have to clean the contacts or pair/unpair to get them to work properly. I’m hoping the max are less finicky

yudlejoza• 6 years ago

Ladies and gentlemen, cue the not-an-apple-fanboy-but astroturf.

neya• 6 years ago

The Sony 1000XM3/4 series actually does all this and more already and has been for the last few years. Of all the noise cancellation headphones I've tried they're the best out there in the market and you can have them for less than $500. What am I missing here?

ketamine__• 6 years ago

Apple Airpods don't connect to my MBP without a big delay. Maybe the firmware needs to be upgraded but I can't do it with my MBP and I don't own any other Apple products.

NicoJuicy• 6 years ago

I don't think comparing headphones to a 5.1 set is normal...

Talking like other bluetooth headsets don't work is also not my experience.

There is no way I'm paying the Apple premium for what is already a solved problem for my use-case.

shoulderfake2• 6 years ago

clearly you dont feel the diff between 500 and 300. But I'll bet my left nut that these wont hold a candle to sennheiser or sony rival headphones

moltar• 6 years ago

I’ve had QC35s for 4 years now. No connectivity issues. Even connects to two devices at the same time.

httpsterio• 6 years ago

I guess you never have guests? Also a pair of headphones wont differ that much from a 2.1 system that'd I'd use that as an argument, it's all psychoacoustics mostly at that point.

Also, when talking about speakers, what upgrades? You don't need yearly upgrades with speakers, unlike with Apple headphones. In the past ten years, I've spent about 400 dollars for a pair of Yamaha studio monitors fit for professional audio use, certainly for light audio entertainment as well. They'll still take any Apple headphones through the ringer in terms of quality.

swiley2• 6 years ago

I'm not dealing with connectivity issues, battery issues

The $6 wired headset I bought from amazon for WFH and looks like something from the 90s works exactly like this.

SZJX3• 6 years ago

On smartphones and tablets I can definitely agree with this sentiment. There's just nothing close to the reliability and comfort that iOS gives you (Used Nexus/Pixel for 5+ years and finally had enough and switched this year back to iPhone. God was my life so much easier).

On earphones I'm not so sure. My Sony 1000XM2 works really well and I don't have advanced needs like switching devices constantly or sharing the audio with another person. Then again, maybe we just didn't know something is possible before somebody actually delivers it out there.

The "spatial audio" thing I don't think would be a very good argument though. The promotion materials are extremely vague and I don't have much confidence that the noise cancelling/sound quality of this will be night and day compared to other established earphones. So I'm not caring too much about that aspect. As long as the sound quality is not worse than Sony/Bose/Sennheiser I'll be fine with it.

darkr• 6 years ago

Compare this to even the least expensive stand alone 5.1 system and it's a very inexpensive alternative.

I've had the same DTS/Dolby Digital 5.1 system for nearly 20 years. It still works flawlessly. I very much doubt that these headphones will be functional in 20 years time.

marakv2• 6 years ago

My current wireless headset costs $10. My wife bought it on sale, cheap Chinese crap, but I'd prefer to go through 10 pairs in the next year than shell out $500. That price point is crazy

gcatalfamo• 6 years ago

The level of rage and indignation in this thread is a good reminder for when you are making your next product:

people are bad at understanding when a product wasn’t made for them.

neom3• 6 years ago

Indeed. Every time Teenage Engineer comes out with something that isn't a synth, the comments section on IG is always "No one will buy this over prices junk" - go to the website: Sold Out.

css3• 6 years ago

Looks like they do support wired playback. If you add them to your cart, Apple's website suggests this[0] add-on:

Lightning to 3.5 mm Audio Cable (1.2m)
Connect AirPods Max to your iOS or iPadOS device. Or connect to 3.5mm audio ports in your car, on an airplane, and more.

After AppleCare, this optional 3.5mm cable, and tax, it comes out to just over $700 USD.

[0] https://www.apple.com/shop/product/MR2C2AM/A/lightning-to-35...

Zenbit_UX3• 6 years ago

Does anyone else think it's hilarious they release a pair of headphones with a 3.5mm jack after courageously dropping it from all their phones a few years ago?

Is the brave move in a world without headphone jacks.. to bring them back?

danappelxx2• 6 years ago

The headphones have a lightning port (just like iPhones). This cable is to connect the headphones to a 3.5mm port (ie MacBook).

johnwalkr• 6 years ago

They don't support the mic over wired connection which is unfortunate, as even apple products are limited to pretty bad mic audio quality over bluetooth.

I realized this issue when I replaced a set of wire/bluetooth headphones with a new pair, and noticed the mic quality was way worse, even when wired. It turns out my old ones had a wired connection for the mic, and my new ones always use bluetooth for the mic.

After googling a bit, I found there's still no high quality microphone audio profile inside bluetooth, even after all these years.

css3• 6 years ago

Yes, I don't think any wireless headphones on the market get around switching to HSP during phone calls and switching back to A2DP when music/audio resumes.

huntermeyer• 6 years ago

First Apple product I've seen that doesn't have a giant Apple logo on it.

omni• 6 years ago

I don't see a logo on the original AirPods or Pros either

tyingq• 6 years ago

I would really love to see the results of a blind comparison to a range of sub $100 products. $549 for headphones is just wow.

olufnaese• 6 years ago

At least they don't have a big glowing apple on each side.

Paianni• 6 years ago

This product will do about as well as the iPod Hi-Fi I reckon.

sorenjan• 6 years ago

This uses Lightning, so I guess that confirms that iPhone wont switch to USB-C for at least a few more years.

etempleton2• 6 years ago

I think these look beautiful and are likely well constructed. The lack of a standard 3.5 mm audio jack is disappointing for a product in this class, but to be expected from Apple.

The questions will be sound quality. A lot of people on here are already stating that they don't know why anyone would buy this product when they can get better sounding products for a similar price. I don't know how anyone can know how good these sound yet. I personally assume these will sound quite good as Apple has made a number of nice sounding products over the years. With that being said, at $550 it is competing with audiophile grade headphones so it needs to at least be roughly in that class.

If it is even roughly in the ballpark of other $500 headphones it is going to be a no-brainer for a lot of people due to the integration with the Apple ecosystem and the stylishness of the build.

AlanYx5• 6 years ago

The lack of a standard 3.5 mm audio jack is disappointing for a product in this class, but to be expected from Apple.

They quietly released a lightning to 3.5mm audio jack cable today to go with these, for use with legacy gear. It's $35 and is somewhat over-engineered (allows bi-directional usage, containing both an ADC and a DAC).

etempleton2• 6 years ago

Thank you. I missed this part of the news. It is a nice addition for those that need it.

ilikepi• 6 years ago

Interestingly, that cable seems to use a 3-conductor (TRS) 3.5mm connector as opposed the usual 4-conductor one found on EarBuds. So I guess that implies it doesn't carry mic input?

traceroute66• 6 years ago

The hilarious thing about this thread is that all the so-called audiophiles on here sneering at Apple's attempts at audio are the same people who will go out an happily waste their money on all the lovely snake-oil that is prevalent in the audio industry. Oxygen free gold-plated cables, special power cables etc. etc. ...

bitcharmer12• 6 years ago

Or there are commenters like you that would happily throw ANY ammount of money just to get their hands on a new piece of gear with apple logo no matter how shitty it is...

codq3• 6 years ago

Audiophiles sneer at that stuff too.

This isn’t marketed at audiophiles though. This is marketed at middle management and execs who have been saving their restaurant money throughout COVID and want to conspicuously flout their success on Zoom calls.

These are not designed for music. They’re designed for Zoom.

traceddd2• 6 years ago

Is a $500 anything really a flex for execs? They could be wearing an Audemars Piguet and I wouldn’t think anything of it.

atwebb• 6 years ago

That's not what I'm seeing, are we in the same thread? It is putting these in that same sphere. Most point out that there are very, very competent competitors around half the price and are looking for what makes these different (the snake oil as you say).

rusticpenn2• 6 years ago

I guess most of the difference comes from UX

Toutouxc• 6 years ago

all the so-called audiophiles on here sneering at Apple's attempts at audio are the same people

Surely not ALL of them.

bitcharmer12• 6 years ago

You can downvote me into oblivion but I don't think apple gear (especially headphones) deserves HN's main page. What happened to HN???

codq3• 6 years ago

Apple releases often signal industry shifts. For better or worse, they’re influential in one way or another, and worth the discussion.

Mass adoption of Spatial Audio may spark new startup ideas, for example.

wilsonfiifi• 6 years ago

I guess Apple is officially the new Bang and Olufsen when it comes to pricing! My goodness...

egypturnash• 6 years ago

“AirPods Max come with a soft, slim Smart Case that puts AirPods Max in an ultralow power state that helps to preserve battery charge when not in use.”

Because apparently just “turning them off” is too normal I guess?

blantonl• 6 years ago

For all the complaining about the pricing here, just set a reminder to yourself for 1 year later, when the pandemic has waned and some workplaces begin to return to normal. Then take a visual survey of how many people are wearing these in those hip open office development workspaces.

You'll see the pricing didn't matter at all. You'll probably be wearing a pair yourself when you do that visual survey.

hajile3• 6 years ago

But my Shure IEMs offer better sound isolation and better sound quality and cost less money.

myspy• 6 years ago

I love me some Shure, but it's to early to trash these new headphones before having listened to them.

clajiness• 6 years ago

I'm shocked by how many people claim to be able to state absolutes about a product that they've never tried. How do you know your headphones offer better sound isolation and better sound quality?

squeaky-clean2• 6 years ago

Have you used a pair of ANC headphones?

rootusrootus6• 6 years ago

That seems like an apples-to-oranges comparison. Apple makes (or at least used to make) their own IEMs, which are more directly comparable to Shure. They were also pretty good, and competively priced. But they weren't at all the same kind of products as a set of wireless noise canceling over-the-ear cans.

perfectstorm• 6 years ago

I have a feeling that this 'allows' Bose and Sony to raise their prices causing everything to normalize around $500 price range. Remember the original pixel (or nexus)? they were priced around $350-$400 and look where they are now ($700).

delecti2• 6 years ago

I think you're right, but your example is faulty. The Nexus line started at $530. It was only a few of the later models that were budget. The successor Pixel line launched at $650.

hocuspocus• 6 years ago

I don't really see how that would work. The Sony XM3 and Bose QC35 II were regularly under €180 (VAT included) in the past days. Who's going to suddenly pay more than twice for the same?

And the original Nexus was expensive. So was the original Pixel. You can't really draw any conclusions from Google's inconsistent smartphone lineup and pricing over the past decade.

Cheap Nexus phones: 4, 5, maybe the 5X if you waited a bit.

Expensive Nexus phones: 1, S, Galaxy, 6, 6P.

Expensive Pixel phones: all of them except the 'a' line, sometimes ridiculously so given the poor experience.

jayd167• 6 years ago

So true. The WH-1000MXs are quite nice and at $350 new and $180 for last year's model/refurbs. I expect these numbers to bump up, sadly.

bagacrap2• 6 years ago

Fact check: the cheapest original pixel was $650. The newest iterations, pixel 5 and 4a, are 700 and 350 respectively. A pixel 5 with 128gb storage is 700 whereas the original pixel with 128gb storage was 750.

Not bothering to look up nexus phones because they're from a different lineage than pixels, hence the different branding.

OkGoDoIt2• 6 years ago

Likewise, smart watches used to cost in the neighborhood of $100 until Apple Watch came on the scene and now everyone thinks it’s normal to pay $300 for a smart watch. It was ridiculously overpriced when it started, and it’s still ridiculous now

grishka2• 6 years ago

The pixel 4a is 350$ and it's basically a modernized version of the once very popular nexus 5.

lm284692• 6 years ago

Pricing is rarely an issue. People spend stupid amount of money to show their status, if anything it's a feature

wpietri7• 6 years ago

I think that's a big part of what Apple sells. And I think it also helps explain how pretty much any Apple product announcement is contentious on here. Most people buying status goods won't say, "I buy it so people think I'm more interesting and important." They instead justify purchases in conventional terms like quality. That makes objective discussion of quality fraught because they create feelings of status threat and cognitive dissonance.

_alex_2• 6 years ago

Bingo. They have a very distinctive look. You buy these and people can tell from across the street that you’re wearing “those $500 apple headphones”.

If you think of apple as a tech company, their products seem absurdly priced. If you think of apple as a company that makes luxury goods that happen to be powered by computers, they make perfect sense.

cactus20939• 6 years ago

Eh, I feel the opposite. My Bose headphones are starting to wear out, and have always been kind of finicky in pairing and getting disconnected. It's worth it to me to pay the $200 more to get newer headphones that in all likelihood sound noticeably better, have spatial audio, and hopefully have no trouble connecting to and switching between Apple devices.

The one thing holding me back actually is, based on the reaction I'm seeing so far, wondering if there will be a negative stigma to these or if they'll attract a lot of attention. Like the google glass years ago where everyone noticed it immediately and thought you were a douchebag for wearing it.

jayd167• 6 years ago

Are you saying they're popular or good? AirPods are popular but I don't think they're very good at all. At least the pros have the rubber tips.

judge20202• 6 years ago

The tech is good on the first one which makes up for the lack of adjustable tips (a few people I know couldn't use them because Apple's design doesn't work for their ears).

thrav• 6 years ago

I actually dislike the rubber tips. The original AirPods fit my ear so well that I can shake my head without them coming loose, and comfortable to the point that I literally forget they’re there.

If they had better battery life, they’d be the perfect easy headphone.

ogre_codes19• 6 years ago

This whole "People just buy them because they are popular" thing is trite. AirPods were tremendously mocked when they were launched and became popular in spite of that.

You don't like them. Millions of people do. Lots of people don't value the things you (or I!) value.

doodpants• 6 years ago

If you think of them as being just over half the price of a monitor stand [0], they're actually quite a bargain! ;-)

[0] https://www.apple.com/shop/product/MWUG2LL/A/pro-stand

warriorstar2• 6 years ago

And if you're actually the target market for that stand and monitor, they are also quite a bargain, because if you're not mounting that monitor on that stand, you're mounting it on a more expensive rigging.

nojito3• 6 years ago

That stand is easily the best stand on the market. I can never justify buying one, but I get jealous of all my coworkers who have them on their desks.

alexandra_cgg• 6 years ago

Just bought a pair, I really like the sleek look. I think it fills a need in the market for headphones that work for both genders. It feels like the QC/Shure/WH-1000 were designed mainly for the male market.

locusofself• 6 years ago

will they work for xe/xemself though is the question

partiallypro3• 6 years ago

I won't be wearing them, they look absolutely terrible. Honestly like headphones you'd find at a dollar store bin (in terms of design.) But they will probably catch on, I think the AirPods themselves looked silly but so many wear them now as a fashion statement. Apple has somehow convinced people that they are a fashion/status company, it's incredible.

deergomoo4• 6 years ago

Amazing how some people just cannot accept that something made by Apple could sell millions because it’s actually good.

The “fashion statement” argument is completely farcical, always has been.

turtlebits4• 6 years ago

I think spatial audio might be the killer feature. They just added an update for the Airpods Pro, and some of the comments/reactions to it sound promising.

Homepods sound amazing in a stereo pair, and Apple just released an update for Dolby Atmos support.

john_minsk• 6 years ago

Could you please elaborate a bit more or may be just share a link. I was thinking about using 2 HomePods as a sound system for my TV, but figured it was too much to ask.

arafsheikh2• 6 years ago

I don’t understand why people like the spatial audio feature. How often do you move your head relative to your iDevice while watching a movie? The field of view is too narrow for it to make any sense.

If you ignore the above then the only trick that’s left is the fake 3D effect; which isn’t novel or even desirable for someone who cares about authentic sound.

puranjay• 6 years ago

They're not terribly expensive for high-end wireless headphones with active noise cancellation. Sennheiser's better wired models start at this range (HD660 S my current favorite, is about the same price).

arafsheikh2• 6 years ago

It doesn’t make sense to compare these to the wired Sennheiser cans. These are targeted towards a completely different market. I’d be surprised if the sound quality comes anywhere close to HD660S.

willtim• 6 years ago

Not really a valid comparison. If you buy a pair of high-end Sennhiesers, they'll last many many years. I still use my HD580 from the 90s. They also sell all the necessary spare parts and are easy to repair (mine have had new cables and pads). An Apple product be will be e-waste in less than 10 years, the glued-in battery will start failing in less than 5.

leokennis6• 6 years ago

I will set that reminder. My guess is these headphones will be about as popular as the original HomePod. Not a failure, but definitely a niche-y product.

Apple's magic is making you pay just that bit more for a "magical" experience. Bluetooth earbuds: $100. AirPods: $159. Clunky smartwatch: $300. Apple Watch: $449.

However the price difference with competing products here is so large I think Apple has priced themselves out of the market here.

frutiger• 6 years ago

However the price difference with competing products here is so large I think Apple has priced themselves out of the market here.

The idea that a comment on HN has done more extensive research and modeling than Apple for a pricing a particular product is amusing.

fomine32• 6 years ago

IIRC AirPods was cheaper TWS earbuds at launch, but soon chinese manufacturer start selling cheaper products in extremely cheaper price.

maest• 6 years ago

I'm having a hard time understanding what you're trying to say.

Krasnol• 6 years ago

As far as I understand it: OP thinks people who complain about the price, think that they won't sell while people who complain about the price are either:

- making fun of people who would have to pay the price because they feel the peer pressure or

- are pissed because now every other brand who thinks it's fashionable will push their price because they know people will pay it or

- have perfectly working headsets already which were significantly cheaper or

- are jealous that they can't pay for them

...which makes OPs comment look quite ridiculous.

ogre_codes19• 6 years ago

Don't know about the "hip" workplace, but for me anyhow these are at least in concept perfect for the open floorpan office I work in (during non-pandemic times).

reanimated2• 6 years ago

And why exactly these are "more perfect" for the open office then Sony's XM4?

darkbatman• 6 years ago

It's crazy how in India its approximately $850 which is huge.

cactus20939• 6 years ago

It uses a lightning cable??! You’ve gotta be kidding me. So if you buy these and then buy the new iPhone rumored for next September your $550, less than a year old high-tech headphones will need to charge with a deprecated, proprietary cable that you’ll have to keep around just for them.

cruano2• 6 years ago

then buy the new iPhone rumored for next September

Those rumors have been there for the past 5 years

gigatexal• 6 years ago

Cool headphones but it’s clear Apple can’t name things in original ways anymore.

manicstoic• 6 years ago

If any Apple engineers are reading this, for the love of god please make the low battery notification volume adjustable. Thank you.

bydo3• 6 years ago

This, please. Every time they run down to ten percent it's like being stabbed in the eardrum.

I bought a pair of Sony WH-1000XM4s on sale a month or two ago in large part for the 30-hour battery life (yes I could use wired headphones and have an infinite-hour runtime; I have a very nice pair of Sennheisers for that. I don't always want to).

ninkendo2• 6 years ago

Or just make it like a quarter of its current volume. I don’t think there’s been a single time that fucking notification went off where it didn’t make me physically jolt in my chair.

willis9362• 6 years ago

What a step back. There are no technical benefits to over-ear compared to in-ear and yet they charge more. This makes me lose hope that the Airpods line would improve over time.

The Airpods Pro (I still cringe at the stupidity built into the name) at least had strong technical merits. The only step they missed on was keeping them open back. You lose the ability to have cavity resonance for low frequency frequency response. The phase issues associated with this are imperceptible at low frequencies.

If they coupled that with tuning filters with microphones (flatten response and linearize phase up to an acceptable amount of delay: ~10 ms) then they would have a great product on their hands. Instead they made a piece of jewelry.

xbar• 6 years ago

Pass. I do not need bigger, heavier Airpods nor a subpar audiophile-on-the-go experience.

I live in a home in the suburbs. I do not wear audiophile headphones in public.

I bought a Schitt Bifrost/Valhalla and Grado PS1000e combo 8 years ago. I use them every day with my Macbook Pro. Except for that year that High Sierra broke all USB audio stuff, it has been great with my Mac.

I use Airpods and Airpods Pro for Apple bluetooth benefits. They are great.

ksec• 6 years ago

Edit: Looks like Availability differs greatly across the world. Also wish HN had strikethrough markdown. Keeping the comment below intact.

And while 460 Comments are shitting on its Pricing.

Shipping time is 12 Weeks for Green, 10 Weeks for Blue, and 8 Weeks for other colours. This is looking like the original AirPod launch where supply wont catch up to demand for quite some time. They are selling like hotcakes.

Yes, it is expensive, but it also has 9 Microphones, 9 Sensors and two H1 Chip. So it is more expensive than a B&W PX7, it certainly does offer a lot more functions.

Cant wait to see the reviews.

MisterPea2• 6 years ago

I'm in the west coast and I see 1 week delivery time?

yza• 6 years ago

Am I the only one who is not a fan of their design? I get that there might be a slight reference to the legendary Koss SP-3 from 1958, but come on - they don't have to look THAT antique.

https://coolmaterial.com/roundup/history-of-headphones/

MrBuddyCasino• 6 years ago

I think they look a bit too sterile for something that people "wear". Very corporate, not very soulful. Especially the big blank aluminum surface. The head band also looks rather plasticky. The british stuff, eg from B&W, has more elegance. Combine with nordic minimalism and maybe some natural materials like leather and it would be more appealing. But I'm sure they are technically superior.

Thlom• 6 years ago

A bit on the expensive side for me, but still might consider it. Only thing I'm concerned about is the battery. My airpods are more or less dead now after 2 years and 8 months. They were not crazy expensive, but they worked fine up until the last few months. The Max is almost three times as expensive. If the battery stops working after 3 years I don't think it will be worth it for me.

ChrisMarshallNY• 6 years ago

AirPods Max are available to order starting today for $549

Ow.

It is Apple, after all...

csomar3• 6 years ago

My AirPods died recently. At $159 and 2 years of aggressive usage (probably 3-4 hours every average day), I think they paid nicely for their price. That should average for around $0.06/hour. If these have the same lifespan, they should average to $0.2/hour. A bit steep for me to "just buy it" or not consider other brands. But I'll wait for the reviews, it might be a good deal.

Interestingly, I can't find any information on how much the batteries could last. This is basically the lifetime of your AirPods Max since (I guess) you won't be able to change the batteries.

+: also, these doesn't replace the AirPods but complement them. So it's more like $250+550 now.

edhelas• 6 years ago

Bought some Shure SE215 for 100€ 7 (!) years ago, still working like the same day, perfect audio. But it's not the "Apple© Experience"

csomar3• 6 years ago

These should compare to the AirPods and also they are not wireless. In that regard, if I compare them to the AirPods, then Apple pricing is competitive.

lm284692• 6 years ago

My AirPods died recently. At $159 and 2 years of aggressive usage (probably 3-4 hours every average day), I think they paid nicely for their price. That should average for around $0.06/hour.

They'll still end up in a landfill somewhere. The batteries aren't replaceable, which makes them purely consumable with a 2-3 years lifespan at best (tiny ass batteries + heavy usage = multiple cycle a day).

Spending $549 on a battery powered gadget which will cycle several times a week and for which you can't get a battery replacement is such a weird move to me. This is peak planned obsolescence, battery powered + non serviceable should be an instant red flag to anyone.

For comparison, my dt770 and shure se215 are going on their 6th years with no sign of ageing whatsoever.

somehnguy• 6 years ago

I was very interested in upgrading my Sony WH-1000XM3s for a moment until I saw the price.

I love my both my AirPods and XM3, they're completely different headphones with completely different uses cases. They're both fantastic at what they do. There is no way these are $300 better than my XM3s however.

bondarchuk• 6 years ago

Nice use of knitting, I wonder what the machine for that looks like.

tartrate• 6 years ago

What are the best sounding wireless ANC headphones today? I do not care about price.

plyptepe• 6 years ago

Sony WH-1000XM4 or Bose 700

bdcravens5• 6 years ago

Sometimes I feel like I'm the only person in tech who doesn't like over the ear headphones. I've always preferred earbuds, and fortunately, both iterations of Airpods fit my ears great. I also have never worked in an environment where I need to shut the world out just to get things done.

elicash6• 6 years ago

This isn't the main benefit, of course, but I do like that as a bonus my current over-the-ear headphones keep my ears warm during winter. There are cheaper ways of solving that problem, which is why I describe it as a bonus, but it's top of mind because it's cold today where I live.

And while it's not a benefit this year for me, I also like them on flights.

andor• 6 years ago

No Bluetooth LE Audio. Less battery than a Sony. Lame ;-)

buildbuildbuild3• 6 years ago

Calling an English expert. Is “AirPods Max” singular or plural? Help.

The AirPods Max is a headphone.

AirPods Max are headphones.

I saw two AirPods Maxes.

elicash6• 6 years ago

Best question in this thread.

With regular AirPods, they work individually. You don't have to use both. So it's helpful to think in terms of each one being its own thing, even though they're paired.

Not the case here.

I'd imagine Schiller would say that AirPods Max is both singular and plural, given this tweet on iPad Pro: https://twitter.com/pschiller/status/725791354769399808

I'd add that over-the-ear (so, one item) "headphones" have a similar issue as AirPods Max. I'd probably call two of these products "two pairs of AirPods Max." (Well, actually I'd probably just say 'two pairs of headphones' but that's a dodge.)

TimTheTinker3• 6 years ago

I think “two sets of AirPods Max” communicates clearly without tongue-twisting.

I know naming things is hard, but I think they’ve really painted themselves into a corner here, so to speak.

wmeredith2• 6 years ago

I think “AirPods Max” would be singular.

AirPods is the product line name. Max is the model. So you have AirPods, AirPods Pro, and AirPods Max. If you needed to buy 10 of these you would say your were buying 10 pairs of AirPods, AirPods Pros, or AirPods Maxes.

Honestly though, it's English we're dealing with, so there are more exceptions than rules, anyway. Muddy the waters further with proper nouns and branding considerations and basically the only people who can tell you what is "right" would be Apple's marketing dept.

twodave• 6 years ago

I feel like it's easier if you add an apostrophe: Airpods' Max

FroshKiller2• 6 years ago

"Headphones" is plural. The "phone" bit refers to the actual drivers, of which there are at least two in a pair of stereo headphones. That's why we say a pair of headphones.

AirPods Max are headphones.

gnopgnip• 6 years ago

In context they treat Airpods as plural, using "are" over "is". It makes sense because the originals were plural, separate objects.

I saw two AirPods Maxes

It is a compound noun, the base word gets pluralized, so it would still be Airpods Max. Like the plural of cup of tea is cups of tea, or sergeants major, brothers-in-law, courts martial, passersby. Airpods would be the base word.

ninkendo2• 6 years ago

Tacos Bell

chadlavi3• 6 years ago

AirPods Max are headphones.

Soon we will all see many pairs of AirPods Max.

jordache7• 6 years ago

Do not buy their 1st gen product for at least 6 mos to 1 yr. Especially for these audio products which are not Apple's domain expertise

All the airpod pros (ear buds) during the 1st year of manufacturing suffers from a rattle issue that develop over a short period of time. Many people have warrantied 3-4 pairs of these.

elicash6• 6 years ago

If you include Beats, then Apple has a ton of experience on staff shipping over the ear headphones.

satysin2• 6 years ago

The price is high at $549 however given Apple's proven audio engineering I will give them the benefit of the doubt on sound quality on par with similarly priced headphones from Sennheiser, etc. I mean have you heard the speaker quality on the 16" MacBook Pro?! Literally no other laptop sounds as good.

My biggest concern is if they are user serviceable. I have a pair of Sennheiser that cost around £700 when I bought them 16 years ago. Granted they are not wireless but I can and have repaired them with parts directly from Sennheiser.

I doubt I will be able to do that with the AirPods Max which is a concern. At this price point I expect them to last at least ten years and there is no chance a battery will last that long so if it is not replaceable I can't see why I would buy these over an alternative in the same price range.

Sure they have some "cool" features but that does not justify a product that will most likely have a battery in need of replacement in 3-4 years becoming worthless.

Edit: OMFG They use Lightning for charging not USB-C?! WTF are Apple doing :(

nikisweeting• 6 years ago

Six years in and my BackBeat Pros have over 1000+ cycles and still last 15+ hours out of their original 24hr. I don't notice a functional difference, I still recharge them about every 3 days.

It's not 10 years but the experience of owning a lithium-battery powered pair of headphones has not degraded as much as I was expecting. Hopefully the Apple batteries are replaceable though, it would really suck to have a $550 pair of headphones that you have to keep tethered to a desk.

satysin2• 6 years ago

That is a good experience that unfortunately I didn't have with my daughters Beats that lasted ~3 years before the battery was down to around two hours. Granted this was before Apple purchased them so perhaps things have improved since then.

My daughter now has a pair of Sony XM3 that she loves but she will no doubt want these. Lucky for me she is now 18 so can buy her own expensive headphones :D

stevehawk• 6 years ago

Has Apple made a product in the last five years with a replaceable battery with minimal, or even moderate hassle?

cruano2• 6 years ago

I'm already on my third set of AirPods so I don't have much hope on battery life

kart23• 6 years ago

I don't understand apples 'proven audio engineering'. The airpods pro don't sound good and cost $250. Incredibly muddy vocals, bass is washed out, and they just don't make music sound good. I need to crank the volume sky-high before they start to sound ok. A $15 pair of sony wired earbuds beats them out in terms of sound quality. The ANC is meh, I can still hear people talk in the background, and theres a decent amount of audible static. For the good reviews, I'm incredibly disappointed.

Their laptops do sound miles better than the competition though, and the homepod is great for the size. I don't know if I have a defective pair or what, because they don't sound good at all.

drak0n1c• 6 years ago

I think that reputation comes from Apple's historical care for iPhone audio engineering which used to have a massive advantage over Android when it came to latency, quality, and dev APIs.

gnicholas2• 6 years ago

Agree that Lightning for charging is crazy for a new product in 2020.

With regard to the battery, I expect apple will replace it for you at the Apple Store, probably for around $75. I believe they'll do it for iPads (including Pro) for $100, and in fact they give you a completely new (refurb, honestly) unit. So you also get a brand new screen with no scratches, which is nice. I don't know if they'll do replacement units for headphones, but wouldn't be surprised.

bborud• 6 years ago

I've spent a lot of money on earphones over the last 10 years in order to try to find a pair that doesn't suck. Audio quality is perhaps fourth on the list of deciding factors. It doesn't matter how good headphones sound if they are painful to wear, have impractical misfeatures or are too expensive.

If these fit my head and I can wear them for 12 hours straight, they may be worth the money. I'd pay $550 for that.

However, this is Apple. Which means it is likely they will find some clever way of making these headphones obsolete. Or they will break in some unfixable, or expensive to repair, way.

I think I'll pass.

ascagnel_3• 6 years ago

However, this is Apple. Which means it is likely they will find some clever way of making these headphones obsolete. Or they will break in some unfixable, or expensive to repair, way.

It's Apple -- they'll keep iterating on it, come out with a better model at the same price at right around the same time the battery wear in your current model will make you choose between an expensive battery replacement or just getting the new version.

ascagnel_3• 6 years ago

I can't edit the comment at this point, but out-of-warranty/AppleCare battery replacements are $80USD.

arvinsim2• 6 years ago

If this sell out despite the price, then it just proves that people will buy anything as long as it has an Apple logo on it.

Marketers and influencers out in full force.

neom3• 6 years ago

Sorry to be pedantic but there actually isn't an apple logo on these. :)

alphachloride• 6 years ago

We both know you're not haha

tommit• 6 years ago

They've already sold so much that you won't get them on the 15th any more, at least in Germany.

They're much pricier than I have anticipated. It doesn't look like I'm going to buy one any time soon. However, this "proves" nothing more than what we already knew: Apple sells expensive products that one can expect to work (close to) flawlessly for a long period of time, and a lot of people like that.

isuckatcoding• 6 years ago

If this beats the MICROPHONE noise cancellation of the Bose QC3,then I’m in. My Bose are great at cancelling noise for my ears but super crappy for the other person when I’m on any kind of call (you can hear every little sounds from outside).

jamil7• 6 years ago

Audio quality aside does anyone else find these... Kinda ugly? Not the most important thing but I expected something different.

newsbinator• 6 years ago

My original airpods became impossible to use after about 18 ~ 24 months, since they don't hold a charge for more than 10 minutes of playback.

What would be the usable lifetime on these? Can the batteries be replaced?

onedr0p• 6 years ago

You don't have to even ask, it's Apple, they aren't going to let you replace jack shit in any of their devices easily.

khanmaytok• 6 years ago

com2kid2• 6 years ago

Spatial Audio

This is something I want standardized across headsets so multiple vendors can add support. Imagine spatially aware zoom calls, being able to turn towards or lean it to someone's voice.

I love high quality audio, but I'd pay $550 for a better video conferencing experience.

As an aside, I wonder what the latency is on these? Many BT headsets can have a 200+ms latency, which contributes to how horrible video calls are.

kipchak2• 6 years ago

My understanding is current Airpods don't have the ability to do Activation Lock. Given The Max's pricing I wonder if it would be prudent to add some similar feature. Back when Beats were big they were allegedly a pretty common target of theft.

benbusby• 6 years ago

AirPods Max come with a soft, slim Smart Case that puts AirPods Max in an ultralow power state that helps to preserve battery charge when not in use.

Instead of, you know, a power button.

Hamuko3• 6 years ago

$549 is way too much to pay for a pair of AirPods Max when you can buy both Sony WH-1000XM4 ($278 on Amazon) and Apple AirPods Pro ($249) for less and still have money left over for a burger. I own a pair of WH-1000XM3s and have thought about the AirPods, since the Sonys are not that portable for all situations. Even if the AirPods Max are really good, I still don't see them being the Sony + AirPods Pro combination.

totaldude872• 6 years ago

Just saw the product video, jeez the placement of that digital crown, almost in a head scratching position

Also this one falls under using lighting, flip of a coin

FpUser2• 6 years ago

"... stunning over-ear design ..."

I guess I have different taste as I do not see anything stunning in this design.

antonyh• 6 years ago

Mac/iOS-only rules these out for me before I even get to the price. I still believe in an open ecosystem for audio, and have the desire and need to use headphones on ANY equipment I choose.

I use cans for video calls primarily, with listening second. Personal favourite is the original Sony MDR-1000X - they just work, and work anywhere, and have a cable if the battery dies. ANC is good enough. Sound quality is good enough. I'll buy a newer model when they cease to function.

I also have a pair of PowerBeats Pro, and they are mediocre. Left only changes half the time. Audio quality middling. Ignoring the lack of ANC, they weren't worth the expense and poor value. It's left me with the impression that Apple/Beats haven't got a clue about sound reproduction.

I also use Audio-Technica ATH-50 headphones, but rarely because no mic. Clear but too sterile except as studio monitors.

Also a set of Y50s that were inexpensive but served well for lightweight on the go sound/voice. Better than the Beats that came after them.

Price is not a good indicator when so much is spent on marketing.

matthew-wegner• 6 years ago

You can use them as Bluetooth headphones or via the Lightning-to-3.5mm cable.

I doubt anyone will buy any of the Apple audio products specifically for non-ecosystem devices. My guess is more folks decide to leave the ecosystem and end up using them elsewhere down the road.

totaldude872• 6 years ago

In another news :

Apple confirms AirPods Max ear cushions will be sold separately, $69 “each”

https://appletrack.org/apple-confirms-airpods-max-ear-cushio...

xixixao• 6 years ago

Much more important than price for me is comfort. These are whopping 50% heavier than Sony MXs, which I already rarely use because of the weight on the top of my head. The mesh looks like a definite improvement (the Sony’s top cushion gets hot from the pressure on my hair), but I doubt that will make up the huge difference.

So this is first gen and is likely going to see a ton of improvement. I would:

1) drop the crown, just like on the Watch it will likely lead to accidental changes of volume and is kinda gimicky 2) replace metal with light solid plastic

Next gen should tought “Half of the weight of previous generated for unprecendeted comfort”

chimen• 6 years ago

AirPods Max require Apple devices running iOS 14.3 or later, iPadOS 14.3 or later, macOS Big Sur 11.1 or later, watchOS 7.2 or later, or tvOS 14.3 or later.

That's no bueno. Are we to assume this only works with apple devices?

dagaci• 6 years ago

Again another Apple post.

lameiam• 6 years ago

Having just bought a pair of DT 1770 pros, I will be really interested to see how these compare. Also, how they will interact with my DAC/HeadPhone amp.

newbie578• 6 years ago

This is simply astounding! At this point, Apple has to be the most successful company (i.e. brand) in the world (and history)? I am simply amazed. I cannot stand the company, their fans, or their products, but you got to give credit where credit is due.

They have managed to turn a tech company in to a luxury fashion company. That is every entrepreneur's wet dream. You keep getting away with customers like a bandit and people will still happily buy it. Just look at the people commenting in this thread where people are honestly admitting to paying a $200 markup just because it is Apple and they "trust" them, for a product they don't even know if they need.

Amazing, to be able to achieve something like this is really wow...

wait_a_minute4• 6 years ago

I paid some $350 for the latest and great Sony wireless headphones earlier in the year, that I returned a week later. Why? Because they were not polished. For example, pairing to both my laptop and my phone at the same time was a nightmare. I could not listen to music on my laptop and instantly receive phone audio if someone called me. I also could not listen to music on my laptop, then close the laptop and resume music on my phone with instant playback.

I also found the Sony privacy policy on the headphones to be lackluster. If the Apple headphones are more privacy conscious and also make this experience across devices as seamless as they're promising, I'll pay for them.

bitcharmer12• 6 years ago

With all due respect, why do I need to care? This post is about AirPods.

I have Sennheisers. Should I write about their up- and down-sides too? What about Bowers and Wilkinsons owners? What about Bose owners? I think we all know that Apple comes nowhere new the quality of these brands. Could we please focus on the actual topic of the post here?

wait_a_minute4• 6 years ago

I'm summarizing my perspective on the AirPods Max and their price tag and on which conditions I'd be willing to purchase them, by comparing Apple's claims about them to specific problems I had elsewhere.

thefounder• 6 years ago

The lack of USB-C proves just how greedy Apple has become and how much it cares about its users

clamprecht• 6 years ago

What is a "beam-forming" microphone??

fastball9• 6 years ago

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beamforming

tl;dr – you have multiple mics which allow you to improve sound quality (via a stronger signal from where you want it) + filter out frequencies that you don't want (i.e. background noise), without needing to do audio processing at a software level (though I'm sure Apple does that too).

ptasci67• 6 years ago

Every comment I have seen is flabbergasted by the price but I think there is a lot more interesting about these headphones. For example, they're clearly being marketed as "premium" over-the-ear headphones but they get the Airpods branding and not Beats? What does that mean for Beats? A 20 hour battery life beats my Bose 700s so it will be interesting to see if that holds up. Perhaps more jarring is the high price tag for what amounts to a cloth cover for a case but I suppose they are making the claim that you don't need to power it off?

ouid• 6 years ago

"When stored in the soft, slim Smart Case, AirPods Max enter an ultralow power state that preserves charge."

Oh man, wait til they hear about "off", it's gonna revolutionize the industry

chad_strategic• 6 years ago

As a retired Punk Rocker/EMO/Heavy Metal etc...

$500 is just silly... I just need noise, anger, maybe little a music.

"Give me convenience or give me death" once said a wise man...

iamkdev• 6 years ago

I listened the video on my Sony WH-1000X3 and it was amazing audio .

emcq• 6 years ago

It feels like we are seeing the result of diminishing returns with technology advancement.

To make a product that Apple believes is significantly better than the competition they had to design a very intricate solution that includes:

* High end look and feel not similar to the bulk of their products with lots of textile webbing and memory foam ear cups. These get way more wear and tear than normal electronics being exposed to sweat, sunscreen, etc. On top of that these must be safe for long skin exposure and comfortable across many head shapes and sizes. * High quality magnets with custom speaker design for low THD and large frequency range. * 2 custom ASICs built for sound processing and low power bluetooth and 10 audio cores each. * 10 microphone array for ANC and wind noise cancelation. * Multiple accelerometers + gyros head tracking with spatial audio.

It you remove one of those components, I'd be surprised if Apple still shipped this. At least 40 people worked on designing and engineering this new headphone. There are not many companies in the world with the right kind of talent for this and Apple happens to be one of them.

enos_feedler2• 6 years ago

I don't understand the point you are trying to make. You lead with a statement that sounds like disappointment, but then build up to the engineering complexity involved. What are you trying to say? That this doesn't add up to a great product? How long have you been using them for?

birdyrooster• 6 years ago

I think the parent commenter is saying that in order to make a superior product these days, you need an extraordinary amount of investment for R&D which can only be made up by selling it at volumes that someone like Apple can achieve. I think their comment is about bang for your engineering buck.

mcdevilkiller• 6 years ago

I think GP means that in the near future, significant tech advancements will only be able to be done by the tech giants.

0x1F8B4• 6 years ago

I don't know how you read a negative or judgmental tone into that comment... GP is basically saying that consumer technology has advanced to the point where you need large teams doing complicated or deeply technical (and somewhat incremental) improvements on existing technologies.

It's not a judgment on the product. It's just a lament that the days of individuals or small companies innovating in the consumer electronics space are (long?) over.

auraham• 6 years ago

I understood the comment like you. After reading the thread, I got the idea of the OP.

mempko• 6 years ago

I think he means headphone tech is already complex and they needed to raise complexity a lot, lets say 10x to get something that maybe has 1.2x better sound. At least that's what I understood. In other words, you get diminishing returns.

georgeecollins• 6 years ago

I like that they are working on spatial audio. The AR applications are interesting.

suyash• 6 years ago

the smaller AirPods will have the same feature of spatial audio

davewritescode• 6 years ago

You could've made the same argument 15 years ago about the original iPod and its scroll wheel.

The difference between a good product and a premium product are the experience. Sometimes that experience is the most expensive part of the product.

chris_st• 6 years ago

and comfortable across many head shapes and sizes

I have what is, evidently, a pretty large head, given the fact that I've only been able to find one hat ever that is large enough to fit me.

And yeah, lots of high-end headphones are painful to wear, because they went for the "standard-size" head.

jordache7• 6 years ago

spatial audio is utterly useless, terrible sound effects.

rorykoehler• 6 years ago

I balked at the price but if they've solved the wind noise problem I'd think about getting it. I love to walk outside when I have calls but the wind makes it impossible most days.

krick• 6 years ago

You sound like you are selling these headphones. Yeah, making wireless headphones with active noise cancellation is complicated, what else is new. Same as making a smartphone, or a laptop, or a car. "Significantly better than the competition"? Sure they are if you listen to (or are) Tim Cook or some Apple fanboy, but really buying an iPhone is mostly a matter of preference, not really being "better than the competition". And "preference" is the best case scenario, because quite more often that's a matter of being victim of aggressive marketing.

I mean, AirPods Max may be actually better than the competition (unlike regular AirPods, which are a bestseller anyway). But they were just announced, why the hell would you assume that they are any good at all?

dvt2• 6 years ago

But they were just announced, why the hell would you assume that they are any good at all?

I'm not an Apple fanboy, but people said the exact same thing about the M1, which basically blew everyone away. So the track record pretty heavily favors Apple here.

benhurmarcel• 6 years ago

At least 40 people worked on designing and engineering this new headphone.

You're probably off by an order of magnitude. 40 people is nothing for a largely produced product.

dirtyid• 6 years ago

I cannot believe that's the travel case they settled on.

julius_set• 6 years ago

Lol this costs more than a Xbox Series X or PS5 for comparison and with Xbox Game Pass you’re at same value as AirPods Max but with hours and hours of entertainment. This isn’t worth $550 probably $200-$300 around AirPods Pro price.

nacho2sweet2• 6 years ago

I mean I will have to wait to see them in person but tbh they look pretty ugly, like a no-name luxury headphone you would see at bestbuy for $70 marketed to a female market.

The price point is ridiculous but the Bose go for like $350? so I can see it I guess. Will have to wait till reviews. For me on quality to buy they would have to compete the entry level prosumer stuff HD-650 etc. But they are closed back, active noise canceling so it is a completely other market that I don't even have headphones in.

For walking on the street or in a plane I am into chi-fi IEMs that are like $35 and compete with $500 stuff and just block out the sound through isolation.

Kaytaro• 6 years ago

These are almost so plain looking they stand out. I wonder if that's what they were going for, since they could've easily stuck an apple logo in all that empty space. I'm sure this will go like any other apple product release - the internet will make fun of it but in real life it successfully becomes a fashion statement.

nacho2sweet2• 6 years ago

I mean true. These will be the biggest selling $500 headphones just because they are from Apple and people who never thought of buying $500 headphones are the people who are going to buy these, not people who are high quality audio hobbyists. They will try and get them on the heads of athletes getting off the plane just like Beats etc...

tomerico• 6 years ago

One thing to note is that Apple is using a different pricing strategy in headphones then with their traditional products. They are pricing them higher, but are offering very deep discounts on sale. For example, AirPods and AirPods Pro sold with 30% discount everywhere past Black Friday. This would translate to a sub $400 price point on sale for the max, which put them in line with the competition from Bose and Sony.

doubleorseven• 6 years ago

Everyone is commenting on the price but what about the buttons on top of the ear cap? Do you grab the entire cap and press? I don't get this design. Am I the only one here how feels this needs to be answered?

unixhero2• 6 years ago

Now with audio cable known as Mini Jack

dmitshur• 6 years ago

It’s hard to judge the price accurately without also knowing how long these will last before they need to be disposed of due to the wear and tear caused by regular use.

If they cost $550 and last 1-2 years, that’s quite different from them costing $550 and lasting 3-5+ years.

Edit: Relevant, AirPods Max Ear Cushions are attached magnetically, and replacements will cost $70.

baby• 6 years ago

Curious to know how they compare to the bose qc 35

minusSeven• 6 years ago

549$ for a new pair of headphones, so in India its probably going to release at 750$. I am currently using wireless earphones worth 30$. I am coming to the realization that I will probably never be able to afford many Apple products considering the way they price them.

matthewfcarlson• 6 years ago

I'm surprised no one is pointing out similar these are to the surface headphones. Pairing to multiple devices, ambient mode with adjustable noise canceling, playing and pausing music when you take them off or on, etc. I like some of the design of Airpods Max (the crown seems strange) and the sound quality is probably better.

gardenrewind• 6 years ago

Those are all the same traits that the current Airpods Pro have. The new parts are form factor / additional microphones / etc

turtlebits4• 6 years ago

Will be looking forward to trying these out, when available and safe to do so. IMO, Apple hit it out of the park with HomePod sound quality (for the size and price) and have high hopes for these..

jbirer• 6 years ago

With 550$, I can do a 1 week trip in Berlin or any city in Europe from the city I live in. I will pass.

circa• 6 years ago

Its nice that Bluetooth 5.0 lets someone else besides Sony use their lossless technology.

haunter• 6 years ago

lmao it's $792 in Hungary, EU. Yes we have the highest VAT in Europe but still. Not that I have a comment on HN salary like most people here so yeah, that's fucking expensive.

kerhackernews• 6 years ago

Extremely expensive.

dwighttk• 6 years ago

This is what I want these to do: let me seamlessly switch from my phone to my computer(tablet/watch) and back, or heck connect to all of them at the same time but let me easily control it.

Bluetooth has gotten pretty good recently but I still have to tap and click a lot to switch my Sony headphones from my phone to my computer and back.

pastrami_panda• 6 years ago

The Bose 700 from more than a year ago is already steps ahead here.

You simply pause the music on the computer, and play something on the phone and it just works. It's quite something.

cptskippy• 6 years ago

I have an older pair of Sony MDr-100ABNs and they handle transitioning from music on my laptop to voice calls from my phone fairly seamlessly but only because I've disable the headset profile on my laptop AND I have to ensure I connect to my laptop first so my phone doesn't steal the media profile.

My partner has new WH-XB900Ns and they do not seem to suffer this issue but will only play output from one device at a time.

I would be willing to pay a premium for headphones that could maintain active connections between multiple devices simultaneously and mux the audio into a unified stream.

theincredulousk5• 6 years ago

How many products does Apple have to release before people stop trying to say It WiLl FaIl YoU CaN GeT SoMeThInG ChEaPer ThAtS BeTtEr. It is exhausting.

For this round in particular, Apple is not competing against the Grados and Beyerdynamics of the world, they are competing against the Bose QCs and Surface Headphones of the world, particularly those with integrated mics. The vast majority of people buying these ~$300 headphones for daily general use/work/travel can afford ~$500 headphones as well, if they want them. So true to Apple, they do not reduce their addressable market with increased cost, but rather turn themselves into a status symbol among the consumers in their targeted market, due to the increased cost, not in-spite of it.

The headphones will sound at least as good as the direct competition because it's not that hard to do among this class of headphones. Give them some common-sense credit. The build quality is already better from pictures, compared to all-plastic which dominates the market. The user experience will be better with Apple products than pure Bluetooth, as everyone knows.

I'm not even going to touch the audiophile discussion. I'm an "audio person" as well, but again, exhausting discussion. Nobody knowledgeable about audio would use anything with noise cancelling DSP to achieve peerless audio quality. Nobody would use a tiny integrated amplifier and expect it to perform like a full-size discrete amp and wired headphones.

Just like I wouldn't expect my Bose QC headset to compete on sound quality with my Sennheiser IE8s, I do not expect my IE8s to work as a headset or reduce ambient noise while selectively allowing voices though. It is pointless to bring up these comparisons, especially in the context of "sound quality units per dollar".

guax2• 6 years ago

Im just sad that this will make a new normal price range for headphones at the 500 instead of the 300 I find too expensive even today.

ng-user• 6 years ago

Do they have a USB-C or lightning port?

dang2• 6 years ago

All: there are multiple pages of comments; if you're curious to read them, click More at the bottom of the page, or like this:

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25344762&p=2

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25344762&p=3

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25344762&p=4

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25344762&p=5

(yes, these comments are a workaround which will eventually self-destruct)

triangleman• 6 years ago

Aaron Sorkin needs to make a sequel to Steve Jobs immediately, where Tim Cook leaves him in the dust and changes the world with truly groundbreaking innovation.

elwell• 6 years ago

Oh, so this is why they moved the MBP headphone jack to the right-side: to incentivize me to get wireless headphones, avoiding the transverse plane obstruction of so many right-handed mice.

type0• 6 years ago

Here's the complete list of alternatives to this device:

https://eldeforma.com/2020/01/27/airpods-alternativos-mas-ba...

herdrick• 6 years ago

Boy, those just don't look right.

fallingmeat• 6 years ago

Nope, that's not gonna fit. for sure.

ck4252• 6 years ago

Am I the only one who still doesn't see what the issue with an old fashioned 3.5mm pair of cabled headphones? I have a quality pair of headphones that works great, that I can easily plug into anything, except nowadays many phones. I still don't get what issue wireless is solving? All this talk of battery life and easily connecting is ridiculous. What's so horrible about a cable?

TylerE2• 6 years ago

The issue is simple. Getting rid of the cable. Cable SUCKS when moving. It's almways getting tangled or trying to pull the phone out of your pocket.

ck4252• 6 years ago

I've never had any issues. I've ran with cabled headphones and it's fine.

robbyking• 6 years ago

Exactly. I wear a single AirPod when going on runs, walks, and on my cycling trainer, and the difference is night and day; I don't know why it's so frustrating to have an earbud ripped out of your ear, but it is.

My AirPods are one of the few things that if I were to lose I'd buy again immediately.

traceddd2• 6 years ago

While I do appreciate my AirPods, especially for noise cancelation/pass-through modes, the possibility of dropping them or having them fall out while running does weigh on me.

I still love wired headphones too, especially because I never have to think about charging. I run the wire under my hoodie so there’s no issues with it snagging.

floatingatoll6• 6 years ago

Nothing's wrong with a cable if you're content with it and have a solution that works for you. (There are lots of issues that cables cause for me, but they don't apply to you, as you're content! So it's not necessary to go into them.)

In arm's reach I have three different headphones: One is wired XLR, two is dual wireless and 3.5mm wired, three is wireless only. They have all been used in the past 24 hours.

Meet your needs however you see fit, and once you're happy, be happy! Others will choose differently. They shouldn't pressure you about it, and I certainly don't intend to either.

andrei_says_3• 6 years ago

Hard to dance around with good cans :)

jdc0589• 6 years ago

some of us just aren't the target market. I don't get it either, but I'm coming to realize I'm in the minority.

todd3834• 6 years ago

With a laptop and multiple monitors, the length of cord I need for wired headphones is longer than most 3.5mm headphones provide. When I bought a pair of overhead cabled headphones with a long cord I found the cord was in the way of my mouse and keyboard. It was workable but annoying. I would even run over the cable with my chair sometimes.

When running, climbing or just doing chores around the house, wireless headphones really make it easier to not get them yanked out of your head.

If your use cases don't run into any limitations with a 3.5mm cabled headphone then you certainly shouldn't pay the extra money to be able to freely move your head/body around. For me I am very happy to pay for that as it has improved my experience dramatically.

quickthrower2• 6 years ago

I'm a cable guy too. Can't wait until it's seen as retro cool.

chrisjarvis• 6 years ago

A cynical take Ive heard before: replacing a power cable with a lithium ion rechargeable battery turns many devices into a quasi subscription service (you pay for a product but then must "renew your subscription" when the battery goes out).

hilyen• 6 years ago

Bluetooth still sounds horrible compared to 3.5mm.

extempore• 6 years ago

Is there still no visual indicator that the wearer is in transparency mode? I am frequently in situations where I'm out in public and something warrants saying, where one or both of us are wearing airpods. Transparency mode would be worth so much more if other people were able to see that I can hear them, and vice versa. There have been so many improvements to apple devices which are obvious to anyone with an eye for what's missing but for which we've had to wait 5-10 years before they materialize, if ever. I am resigned to this being something I can look forward to in 2030.

timwaagh3• 6 years ago

I scrolled all the way to find out the one thing im interested in with apple. How much do they take you for this time around. 549 or about 100 times what the Action store charges for headphones (with good sound). Sound is produced using magnets and a coiled up wire. Its the simplest electronic product out there by a large margin. Yet people are jumping at the chance to give apple money. I can only complement Apples marketing. They have done a phenomenal job.

kmonsen• 6 years ago

They seem to be sold out for the next 6 months, so I guess it is a product people want.

timwaagh3• 6 years ago

Yes, that's kinda the point. You see Apple, you buy.

nine_k• 6 years ago

Coils, magnets, and membranes: $30.

The over-the-head hardware, wire, etc: $40.

Usability, care for minor conveniences, thorough support in the rest of Apple products: $529.

Some other companies tried to emulate this, with limited success. It's not just a problem of designing and executing (which are real large problems), but also a problem of forming a large base of devoted fans, and a reality-distorting field™ to keep them devoted.

The latter cannot be done with smoke and mirrors, only with solid design and engineering, plus the right elitist-but-accessible marketing. This is easier when you are Ferrari or Tissot, but Apple managed to be almost price-competitive, and sell massive amounts.

timwaagh3• 6 years ago

Very much true. You cant see these out of context of the whole ecosystem. Making the best (according to many) computers, operating systems and phones means being able to sell headphones at a high margin.

bluescrn3• 6 years ago

A good pair of analog headphones will last a decade or more if looked after. In fact, I've got a 20yr-old pair of Sennheiser HD580s that still sound decent (thanks to the availability of replacement cables and earpads)

Do people really want to spend this much on something with a non-user-replaceable battery and with no analog input, no way to avoid the limitations of Bluetooth?

Yeah, I get it, it's a fashion accessory not an audio product.

robertlagrant• 6 years ago

I hope it's not just me that was displeased at the different email formats of the listed press contacts.

bjustin• 6 years ago

I think it's a shame these don't support the new MagSafe charger. Plugging a cable into headphones is more of a pain than it needs to be. Charging my AirPods Pro by putting it on the MagSafe puck is really convenient, and makes me more likely to charge them from time to time than to wait until they're dead to plug them in.

qaq• 6 years ago

that feature will be reserved for AirPods Max Pro

willis9362• 6 years ago

Not to be confused with AirPods Pro Max.

abalashov• 6 years ago

The folks who have noted that high price is seldom an obstacle and if anything, a feature for Apple insofar as it accessorises some kind of social signalling, are right on point.

As a road cyclist, there's a 100% parallel here to Specialized S-Works bike frames.

nokya• 6 years ago

I have an undisclosed short checklist of items I secretly check for when interviewing a candidate. I cannot use this list "officially" as most of the entries are either illegal or at least unethical.

One of these items specifically involves finding out whether the candidate uses anything Apple/Beats for music listening. Don't ask me why, it's a telltale sign on who I am hiring.

When Apple decides to make its "airpods" even bigger and more visible from further away, I can only feel happier.

p.s. Because there is so much dissonance in this thread, I will intentionally not mention whether I actually keep these candidates or let them go ;)

Zenbit_UX3• 6 years ago

Interesting. As someone who compiles their own source code to apk to get airpod pros working on my note9 how would I fair in your pompous evaluation?

A) You're an android fanboy who can't appreciate good tech from non android manufacturers.

B) You're an apple fanboy who can't appreciate good tech from Android manufacturers.

C) You're agnostic in the tech wars and evaluate the best value for your own needs.

Please select an option from my secret undisclosed checklist for evaluating commenter IQ in Apple HN threads.

chadlavi3• 6 years ago

Sounds like you pass on them. And if you're serious, it sounds like you're a terrible and biased hiring manager either way. You should stop doing this.

Especially since you acknowledge that it would be illegal or at least unethical if you acknowledged it. Knock it off.

jacobwilliamroy• 6 years ago

How good can bluetooth audio really be? Is it really possible for bluetooth to perform better than a wired pair of headphones?

gonehome5• 6 years ago

One pleasant side-effect of these is when we all start flying again it'll be even easier to find the SFO airport gate.

Currently you can just look for the one with >50% Airpod use, but that's hard to see from a distance.

These are much easier.

shash7• 6 years ago

Lmao

hombre_fatal6• 6 years ago

Fwiw, the delivery and implication of the first sentence was good enough to end there.

pwthornton• 6 years ago

Agreed. You have to believe in your joke and be OK that some people won't be hit over the head with it.

h0l0cube• 6 years ago

The intention doesn't have to always default to snark. People are permitted to make plain old observations on this forum, I think.

the_arun• 6 years ago

Headphones market is a crowded place. Apple with this expensive headset may be addressing very small segment of the users. I'll wait for SE model. $500 for headphones doesn't sound good to me :)

dzhiurgis4• 6 years ago

Lightning port is the biggest disappointment so far, but I’m sure there will be more.

Does it work without Apple Music subscription?

jonplackett• 6 years ago

And yet they’re already nearly sold out for pre-Xmas delivery...

torgian• 6 years ago

There are headphones in that price range that are much better sounding too, I bet.

acwan932• 6 years ago

AirPods, Away bags, and Allbirds.

tlapinsk• 6 years ago

This is way too accurate lol

thecompilr• 6 years ago

I’m in this picture and I don’t like it

sorum4• 6 years ago

Add the Patagonia and an oversized Yeti water bottle and you've got yourself the VC starter kit

beaner• 6 years ago

Bears, Beets, Battlestar Galactica.

Austin_Conlon2• 6 years ago

Now imagine what Apple Glasses will do for navigation.

floatingatoll6• 6 years ago

This method is also effective for finding the Austin gates during SXSW, while at SFO. There’s a noticeably higher concentration of early adopters than the default airport mix and it’s apparent from a couple gates away.

blairanderson• 6 years ago

They will eventually show up on amazon for $50 less.

filters:

- Brand: Apple

- Seller: Amazon.com

- Availability: Include Out of Stock

Amazon search with filters: https://amzn.to/3mTRvWu

OG google search: https://www.google.com/search?q=%22airpods+pro+max%22+site%3...

samirillian• 6 years ago

You can't teach a sneetch!

shoulderfake2• 6 years ago

for 549 lol..yea I'll stick to my sennheiser 550pxc

_alex_2• 6 years ago

Luckily by the time i leave my house again, version 2 will be out and will have fixed all the annoying version 1 features

scoot2• 6 years ago

spatial audio tracks the motion of a user’s head as well as the device, compares the motion data, then remaps the sound field so it stays anchored to the device, even as the user’s head moves.

Emperors clothes. The audio is already anchored to the device, since the device emits the audio. And the device is (presumably) anchored to the wearers head by friction. so...

lttlrck• 6 years ago

The device is eg an iPad or iPhone.

scoot2• 6 years ago

The listening device is headphones. (Perhaps whoever wrote the bunkum doesn't understand what they said, but the rest of us do.)

rangibaby4• 6 years ago

In a real surround sound setup you can turn your head and look at the speakers when they make an unexpected noise. It would be cool if these headphones did that too

hsuduebc• 6 years ago

I cringed hard because of this.

bdastous• 6 years ago

AintPods

smcleod• 6 years ago

Nice industrial design and I'm sure the integration and spatial audio will be great (like the Airpods Pro) but $900AUD seems about twice the price point I'd expect them to be at.

codecamper• 6 years ago

Apple shut down the I AM RICH app and ever since has tried to emulate it.

RayVR• 6 years ago

I haven't been able to read every comment here, but one thing I haven't seen discussed is the name choice.

The AirPods Max are not the Pro Max. We have AirPods, AirPods Pro, and AirPods Max.

I expect to see AirPods Pro Max sometime next year and I wouldn't be surprised if they come in somewhere around $1000.

franklampard• 6 years ago

Too expensive bruh...

exabrial4• 6 years ago

What's crazy is you can go get tampons jammed in your ears, have an audiologist fill them with silicon goop, send said silicon off to a high end company, and they'll mail you back the finest of IEMs your ears will ever hear for less than this. They're so comfortable and natural feeling you'll forget they're in... All for less than $400 all in. Pro tip, if you're a Costco member the impressions are already paid for in your membership. Or if you know somebody that'll let you in the store....

But there's a fatal flaw. These glorious masterpieces that fit your body perfectly come with a horrific subatomic nanotechnology called 1/8" jack. And while all phones are thicker than that, one cannot simply set that example for children.

Please think of the children.

Also Alclair audio makes some dank shit for half the price. They'd love your business.

rattray• 6 years ago

What is an IEM?

Can you share URLs to some recommended vendors of the products you're talking about?

lesdeuxmagots• 6 years ago

In Ear Monitors

floatingatoll6• 6 years ago

Find your nearest “audiologist” or “audiology center” and ask them if they do “ear impressions for custom-fit in-ear monitors and earplugs”.

Do not buy headphones until you’ve discussed your product choice with them. You may find that they can be fit correctly but will have a huge unsightly bulge outside the ear canal. They will usually have Opinions, as it’s their job. Know your price range.

There’s no other way to do it but to go somewhere in person and have a cup of liquid goo poured into each of your ears by a trained professional. (Do not try this at home, etc.) They will send the molds off to be fit into your earphones, which either you’ll buy new from them or turn over to the audiologist at impressions time.

You can also use the mold to produce musician’s earplugs that are transparent and have swappable filters that have different dB reductions. I use my -9dB pair for parties so I can hear better.

I assume they keep the mold on file for a little while, in case of fit issues or whatever, but it’s been a decade since I last went so I don’t imagine they still have it. (Who knows, though!)

When you have them in hand, turn your volume way down and be very, very careful with them. You are sticking these deeper into your ear than headphones have ever gone before. You can go deaf very rapidly. If your phone has a volume limit setting, enable it and turn it the lowest point (75dB on iPhone). If you’re constantly wishing it was louder after a day or two, raise it 5dB and wait a bit longer. The audiologist will make scary comments about risk of hearing damage, and give you a hearing test to see how you’re doing beforehand. Listen to them. It’s deadly serious stuff.

exabrial4• 6 years ago

IEMs are very-high-end personal monitors that are custom molded to your body to fit perfectly in your ear canal. Your ear canals on your left and right side are different sizes and shapes, so you'll have quite a bit of difference between them.

Most importantly, rather than using speakers like headphones, they use a technology called balanced armature drivers which have incredible properties.

An example manufacturer is https://alclair.com I have two sets of theirs, one for master studio tracks, and another for live music that's more geared for guitar and bass playing.

They block out nearly all outside noise, some up to 28db of protection, which is wonderful.

syntaxing• 6 years ago

Second to the request, do you have a link to that Costco deal?

exabrial4• 6 years ago

I just walked in the store with a friend's membership and told the nice lady what I wanted to do. She happily obliged.

ogre_codes19• 6 years ago

All for less than $400 all in.

I love the endless comparisons to products which don't actually compete with these or even the AirPods. If you are looking at AirPods Max, your tampon headphones aren't remotely in the running for no other reason than they are wired. That's without even looking at the other features of the headset.

Good bluetooth headphones finally have completely destroyed my willingness to wrestle with cables.

jakeva• 6 years ago

Not to mention the better than Bluetooth things Apple are doing. Seamlessly switching between devices, etc. I, for one, have never wanted form fitting ear buds more than a good wireless experience.

exabrial4• 6 years ago

Just curious, have you ever had IEMs made?

cactus20939• 6 years ago

Yeah you can also get a TV for under $400. You could get a decent hotel for the weekend in many places for under $400 all-in! You could adopt a puppy, or fall in love, for free. Why would anybody buy these headphones instead??!

bitcurious• 6 years ago

About 12 hours and ~1000 dismissive comments later, all colors are back ordered for the next three months.

ChuckMcM• 6 years ago

These look pretty nice, pricey, but nice. Given that they can be 'tuned' to your hearing (unlike the Bose equivalents AFAICT) it could be a good deal for people like me with hearing loss in specific frequencies.

simonebrunozzi• 6 years ago

After less than 24 hours from launch, delivery time for any AirPods Max is currently 12-14 weeks. Say all you want, this has been a really successful product launch.

Uptrenda• 6 years ago

Honestly I was disappointed as hell with my airpods. I have to re-pair them every time I use them (often multiple times.) no matter if its with a mac, an android phone, a linux pc, or whatever. its pairing sucks. if anyone wants to buy this wait until you've verified from other people that it pairs well with your devices. a 500 USD headset SHOULD be able to connect well for that price and if it doesn't its most certainly flawed... note: that im using an earlier version of airpods so maybe this flaw is absent in later airpods? but i thought id share this negative experience

victorantos• 6 years ago

If this HN thread would not have been so popular I would have not bought this new Apple headphones. I already have got Airpods(in use), Airpods Pro(daily), Sennheiser M2(broken - not charging) and M3(daily in use). I am looking for comfort, good sound quality, nose canceling and easy to use.

If I don't like them I'll just return it. The price is high but I am happy to pay for it - if I can make use of them 3+ hours per day while working on my computer - and Apple knows that!

thefz• 6 years ago

Yay, more batteries in landfills.

XOXO1• 6 years ago

Max = Maximus?

When Optimus ordered Maximus to "Sacrifice to save your life; if not I shall make you die in torment," Maximus answered, "I have always wished it; it is in order to pass out of this short and miserable life to the life eternal that I have declared my faith." [wikipedia]

dpumpshitlord• 6 years ago

Not interested

AirPods Max

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