Bard is now Gemini, and we’re rolling out a mobile app and Gemini Advanced

https://blog.google/products/gemini/bard-gemini-advanced-app/

by chamoda • 2 years ago

668 1091 2 years ago

blog.google

yellow_lead• 2 years ago

2 TB of storage in Photos, Gmail & Drive for you and up to 5 other people

Keep in mind your files may be accidentally deleted if Google doesn't cancel this product first [1][2].

[1] https://www.theregister.com/2023/11/27/google_drive_files_di...

[2] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=38431743

Klaster_1• 2 years ago

Also, other people should have an account associated with the same country as your account. Discovered this the hard way when my parents no longer could renew their Google Photo storage because of the sanctions.

_njyk• 2 years ago

One anecdote, I live in one of the European countries that put sanctions onto yours, and I cannot use many Google of services either.

This European country simply doesn't exist in many of the Google forms, despite being on the "good side" and being no different than Finland or Germany.

nolok3• 2 years ago

If you use any cloud storage, including others like dropbox or icloud, you must always assume that. Whether you're a business or an individual.

naikrovek• 2 years ago

Why? It’s not an unsolvable inherent problem.

You pay for cloud storage so you don’t have to think about these things. If you’re saying that one should pay for cloud storage and still worry about these things, then you’re trading money for a service which provides nothing, or at least you’re paying for a service which provides no real utility. You’re trading money for nothing. If anyone thinks that’s a normal transaction then I don’t know how to respond to that.

nazgul17• 2 years ago

No, you would assign a probability to the event. And that probability would be higher for a Google product.

linsomniac• 2 years ago

The wording around the Gemini Ultra enable scares me: "Upgrade your Google One plan". I have a One family plan, does this upgrade remove the family part? What happens if I don't decide to keep Gemini and want to go back to my current plan, can I even do that? Google has kind of botched these sorts of upgrades in the past so I'm pretty reluctant to give it a try here.

klabb34• 2 years ago

Finally some actual relevant criticism in this thread. You’re spot on. Google is deep into “shipping the org chart”. As such, I would be worried too that different products conflict with each other.

It’s funny that Google can design and operationalize the most incredible engineering marvels, but can’t explain their products (and in particular how they interact with each other).

surajrmal7• 2 years ago

All Google one offerings are family plans. Yes you can downgrade as well.

htrp5• 2 years ago

burner gmail account

Ambolia• 2 years ago

It can't be accessed without a google account.

hahnchen• 2 years ago

Getting error 500 :/

captaincaveman• 2 years ago

500 > 404 , you win a prize!

dorianmariefr• 2 years ago

"Sorry, Gemini Advanced isn't available for you"

"Gemini Advanced is not yet available in some countries, for work accounts, or for users under a certain age."

Learn more: https://login.corp.google.com/request?s=support.corp.google....

TechRemarker4• 2 years ago

Google Work Paying users always get the short end of the stick.

caslon• 2 years ago

"We're using your personal conversations for training data. Thanks."

This is acceptable. Consumers click without reading, and don't have any strong organizational ability to punish Google for this.

"We're training our AI on the questions of your idiot employees who are inevitably going to submit user PII CSVs or PDFs or even just outright draft emails to suppliers with our tool. Thanks."

You don't want to pick this kind of fight with a corporation, and as a corporation, you don't want this to happen to you.

motoboi• 2 years ago

As always I feel stupid for giving google my money.

crazygringo7• 2 years ago

Workspace users always get features after free consumer accounts so that organization admins have time to evaluate them, update training materials, etc.

This is a feature, not a bug.

And of course there are lots of features that Workspace accounts get, that free accounts don't get at all. Like the timeline view in Sheets.

MrMetlHed• 2 years ago

Being stuck in a free GSuite legacy account is even worse. Migrating to a regular Google account seems impossible (moving everything, losing purchases, changing my YouTubeTV and Google Fi subscriptions) and I get every feature later, if at all (can't use YouTubeTV Family Sharing, for example.) But I'm stuck for the most part! By the time it's available for me, I'll have forgotten about Gemini altogether.

sebtron• 2 years ago

"Please sign in your Google account"

danielbln• 2 years ago

.. while using the most sketchy looking login form.

addandsubtract• 2 years ago

AI summary isn't even available on my Pixel 8 Pro. I have little hope of using Gemini in Q1.

tekacs• 2 years ago

Hopefully this isn’t the case for others, but after paying to upgrade my Google One subscription, I landed at a 404 at https://gemini.google.com/u/2/ (because my /u/0/ is one of my Google Workspace accounts). Curious to try it when it works.

It’s interesting to note that it’s listed as applying to Gmail, Docs, etc., so this sounds like an account-wide update to Advanced.

Davidzheng• 2 years ago

Happened to me too

ktta2• 2 years ago

Landed at a 404 as well, but my /u/0/ is not a Google Workspace accounts. I'm in EU at the moment but with a US billing address. While the upgrade succeeded, I'm only seeing a 404 after

rvnx11• 2 years ago

404 too, and if you add /u/xxxx then you get: Gemini is currently unavailable. Try again in a few minutes.

dizhn• 2 years ago

I bet you took a second look at that url when that happened. Good thing it wasn't gogglo.com or something huh. :)

rbinv• 2 years ago

Try ?authuser=2 instead of /u/2, that works with some Google products where /u/x doesn't.

edit: doesn't seem to work, it just redirects to /u/2 anyway

kashnote• 2 years ago

Aaand I got a 404 after you subscribe and get redirected to gemini.google.com. Nice job Google

_andrei_• 2 years ago

Same for me, what a blunder.

andrejguran2• 2 years ago

same, got redirected to https://gemini.google.com/ with weird title: "Error 404 (Not Found)!!1"

acatton• 2 years ago

https://googlesystem.blogspot.com/2013/05/error-404-not-foun...

jug4• 2 years ago

It's up now!

woodylondon• 2 years ago

Same here - signed up and got the 404

alphabetting7• 2 years ago

They haven't announced anything yet. Assume official release happens in next hour or so.

Edit: I have access to the model after subscribing and going to Bard

LoKSET2• 2 years ago

Same, but I can access Advanced here anyway https://bard.google.com/chat

antupis• 2 years ago

yup same here, I think subscribing 'works' but Google just botched the launch.

Etheryte• 2 years ago

ChatGPT Plus, the service everyone will be comparing this to, currently costs $20/mo. At $22/mo, can Gemini Ultra justify the price difference? There are many conflicting reports on the ebbs and flows of ChatGPT's quality, are there any good comparisons on how the two compare in practice?

mritchie712• 2 years ago

Your feedback has been noted... I was just shown this pricing:

$19.99 $0 for 2 months, $19.99/month after

hackerlight6• 2 years ago

Google's marketing materials said it's slightly better than GPT-4 across benchmarks. I'll be checking leaderboards on Huggingface over the next few days for independent confirmation.

operator-name• 2 years ago

It seems to come with Google One (2TB), so with that factored in its actually quite competitive.

glimshe• 2 years ago

Oh wow, even looking at the price requires a Google login. Looking forward to seeing independent comparisons of this vs the other top LLMs.

jsty• 2 years ago

FYI for any Googlers - On the "Sorry, Gemini advanced isn't available for you" page, clicking "Learn More" gives you a (presumably internal) SSO sign-on (links to https://support.corp.google.com/googleone?ai_premium)

translucyd• 2 years ago

My God, this page is straight from the 90s! Nostalgic.

crazygringo7• 2 years ago

I'm actually shocked it has the modern Google logo, because everything else about it is a straight-up time capsule -- you're right!

davidmurdoch• 2 years ago

It's so beautiful!

dominik4• 2 years ago

Thanks for the heads up -- which page was this from?

Havoc3• 2 years ago

You're literally reply to a comment that says where its from with a question about where its from?

On the "Sorry, Gemini advanced isn't available for you" page, clicking "Learn More" gives you

krzyk• 2 years ago

This page lacks information what is Gemini Ultra.

rvnx11• 2 years ago

Entered bank card, redirects to: https://gemini.google.com/ Error 404.

_puk2• 2 years ago

edit Sadly not!

Sounds like you can theoretically do the old Xbox game pass trick of loading up Gold and then upgrading.

£25 for an annual standard plan, and then upgrade to Ultra. First 2 months free, so potentially 14 months for £25 (then £18.99 a month after). No idea if this works in practice!

"If you upgrade, your plan will be active immediately, and the remaining time on your current plan will be credited towards your new plan."

r2binx• 2 years ago

Thanks for the tip but it doesn't seem to work that way. It looks like they convert your subscription value into however many days it could get at this new pricing.

For instance I just did the annual upgrade for my plan (29.99€/y) and they credit me 40 additional days if I upgraded the plan (21.99€/m).

_puk2• 2 years ago

Was worth a shot!

posnet• 2 years ago

Also getting a 404 after subscribing. Clearly Gemini Ultra isn't webscale. They should have used NodeJS to serve their 1TB.

bjord• 2 years ago

I was able to sign up for the trial, but the page on which I would actually use gemini is a 404.

iruoy• 2 years ago

On the https://one.google.com/about/plans page they named the subscription AI Premium. It's the same as Premium, but you get access to Gemini Advanced too. However I'm not sure where you can use it at the moment. Maybe just Bard?

buro92• 2 years ago

Seems to be a lot of dead-ends (I only have a GSuite account via work, and cannot view the page without a Google account, and it doesn't seem to work with a GSuite account).

What _is_ Gemini Ultra?

rvnx11• 2 years ago

An improved version of Bard; Bard which is for known for being inferior to competitors like ChatGPT or Claude for now.

This Ultra is interesting in a way that we will know if Google's tech is more like Siri or more like ChatGPT.

buro92• 2 years ago

Aha, I wonder why they chose to advertise it in such an obstructive way. It seems like they're not even saying what it is, let alone why one might want to use it.

Given the URL included one.google.com , I assume it's for individuals only?

Reminds me of this which I wrote 5-6 years ago... seemingly still true https://medium.com/@buro9/one-account-all-of-google-4d292906... , though since then I've almost completely de-Googled (due to Google being Google).

lynx23• 2 years ago

Wow, two announcements by Google on HN on the same day both look like a scam. localllm just being a downloader and wrapper for llama.cpp, and this one giving many users a 404 after subscription. I think Google is officially dead.

lol7683• 2 years ago

Title may be (unintentionally) misleading if, post-subscription, it consistently 404s for everyone!

I'll be interested to see some independent comparisons against OpenAI's models, but like everything AI-related Google has done recently, it feels like it's all a bit too little too late - and this is the latest bungled product launch..

In the UK, it states:

£18.99/month

Which is about 20% more than I currently pay to OpenAI. Is Google's model 20% better?

kthartic2• 2 years ago

Which is about 20% more than I currently pay to OpenAI.

ChatGPT Plus (which I assume is what they're competing with) is the same price - £18.99.

Actually not a bad deal considering I'm already paying for Google One (for gdrive storage), so I can just combine the two services for the same price as ChatGPT.

lol7683• 2 years ago

ChatGPT Plus (which I assume is what they're competing with) is the same price - £18.99.

Odd - they're billing me $20 in USD, which works out at about £15 something. I'm using a card with no currency conversion mark-up.

FergusArgyll• 2 years ago

I don't think its actually been released yet, no blog no news. Someone just found this link

cranberryturkey• 2 years ago

Gemini isn’t available right now. Try again in a few minutes.

khimaros2• 2 years ago

initially received a 404 after starting trial. now seeing ”Gemini isn’t available right now. Try again in a few minutes.”

sidcool2• 2 years ago

I subscribed for it. But then it redirects to https://gemini.google.com/ which throws 404.

When I went to https://bard.google.com it shows Bard Advanced. Is Bard advanced same as Gemini Ultra?

alphabetting7• 2 years ago

I believe so. They haven't announced anything yet but should be getting official launch soon.

chris-orgmenta• 2 years ago

Popup for me @ https://gemini.google.com/app:

"Bard is now Gemini

The best way to get direct access to Google AI All the capabilities that you know and love are still here, and will keep getting better in the Gemini era"

So I suppose this is the official launch.

(https://gemini.google.com/app 404'd until I connected my workspace account in bard extensions).

Edit: Side note - Hallucinations pretty much what you would expect, the same as ChatGPT4. Immediately tried to tell me to import non existent components from an npm library. That test was without prefixing with 'turn creativity to zero [blah blah]', so will test further with proper prompts. Gemini doesn't seem to allow for custom instructions, so I suppose I will have to add them into an Autohotkey script.

LoKSET2• 2 years ago

Gemini Ultra is the model. Bard Advanced (which probably soon will become Gemini Advanced) is the whole product. Like GPT-4 and ChatGPT.

danpalmer• 2 years ago

As far as I understand, Bard/Gemini Advanced (the product), is backed by Gemini Ultra (the model). Gemini comes in Ultra/Pro/Nano, and I don't think Bard/Gemini the web product is using Nano at all as that's designed for on-device inference.

smusamashah• 2 years ago

It said "Bard is now Gemini"

khimaros2• 2 years ago

after reaching the 404 and then /unavailable page, clicking my profile icon took me to https://gemini.google.com/app which seems like it still work but provides no responses, just redirects back to itself after submitting a message.

TechRemarker4• 2 years ago

"Sorry, Gemini Advanced isn't available for you". Why are Google paying customers always the last to get everything. Always thought that should be reversed. Especially for one person users who use it for the customer domain and not running a fortune 500 company. So frustrating. Google Home is still a mess where if one if Google Work and the rest of the family is not won't work after all these years. So frustrating.

bdd8f1df777b• 2 years ago

Because the legality for the paying customers is much more complex to navigate.

DismantleMars• 2 years ago

I think there's a deeper issue around paying customers being assumed to be businesses. I have a paid Google account for just one reason - using a custom domain with Gmail. This lets me have a wildcard email address, but more importantly, it gives me the ability to move my email address to a different provider if my Google account got caught in an automated system and blocked, so I wouldn't lose access to all the services I've used that email address to sign up with.

If there was a way I could continue to just have a regular personal Google account, but pay an extra fee to use a custom domain with it, I'd much prefer to do that than maintain an enterprise Google Workspace setup with only a single user in it, just for this one feature.

crazygringo7• 2 years ago

Copying my reply to a similar comment in this thread:

Workspace users always get features after free consumer accounts so that organization admins have time to evaluate them, update training materials, etc.

This is a feature, not a bug.

And of course there are lots of features that Workspace accounts get, that free accounts don't get at all. Like the timeline view in Sheets.

udev4096• 2 years ago

requires sign in

No thanks

andrejguran2• 2 years ago

Seems it was just fixed. Url: https://gemini.google.com/app works now!

rvnx11• 2 years ago

Update: It's working now if you manually go to https://gemini.google.com/app

menschmanfred• 2 years ago

Mh weird that they bundle it with storage.

Makes downgrading hard if you don't track your usage and get used to it

IanCal6• 2 years ago

Even weirder is that it's only bundled with 2TB of storage. If you have more than that you cannot upgrade without losing storage space.

codekaze3• 2 years ago

Just played with Gemini Ultra for like 10-15 mins, and right off the bat, it made mistakes I've never seen GPT-4 do.

To give you an example, I asked Gemini Ultra how to set up a real-time system for a TikTok-like feed that matches card difficulty with user ability. It correctly mentioned "Item Response Theory (IRT)", which was a good start. But when I followed up asking how to implement a real-time IRT system, it suddenly started going off about "Interactive Voice Response (IVR) system" - something totally unrelated and never mentioned before. Never had this kind of mix-up with GPT-4.

https://g.co/gemini/share/f586a497013e

MrsPeaches• 2 years ago

From the FAQ:

"Why doesn’t Gemini know what I said earlier in a conversation?

Gemini’s ability to hold context is purposefully limited for now. As Gemini continues to learn, its ability to hold context during longer conversations will improve."

codekaze3• 2 years ago

Yeah, I saw that in the FAQ, but this was literally my second question in the convo, so not exactly a "long" conversation. Seems like it should be able to handle context for at least a couple of exchanges, right?

behnamoh2• 2 years ago

Gemini’s ability to hold context is purposefully limited for now. As Gemini continues to learn, its ability to hold context during longer conversations will improve."

This is ridiculous. Context is everything with LLMs. gpt-4-32k performs better than gpt-4 exactly because of this.

tomasff5• 2 years ago

It doesn't seem like it's using Gemini Ultra yet. For me it seems like only the interface has been updated since the image generation capabilities are not working.

QuantumGood4• 2 years ago

Image generation is working for me

mjgeddes3• 2 years ago

Yeah, I noticed with 'Gemini Pro' , it didn't seem to be able to remember much about earlier outputs in the conversation (apparently little to no context window), which obviously drastically dumbs it down.

I was starting to get OK results with 'Pro', but I had to use special prompting tricks.

Tried 'Advanced' (Ultra), seems only marginally better so far.

hackerlight6• 2 years ago

I was starting to get OK results with 'Pro', but I had to use special prompting tricks.

Like what?

okdood642• 2 years ago

Created with Gemini Advanced

You're not using Ultra here...

mjgeddes3• 2 years ago

Well, it says I'm in to 'Bard Advanced' (which is the same as 'Gemini Ultra'). I only did a couple of queries so far, text output seemed only marginally better than 'Gemini Pro', which I was just starting to get decent results with after getting used to prompting. It's possible they'd done a stealth release earlier, obviously need to do a lot of experiments to make a proper comparison with GPT-4.

joshstrange• 2 years ago

Sorry, Gemini Advanced isn't available for you
Gemini Advanced is not yet available in some countries, for work accounts, or for users under a certain age.

I’m so tired of this bullshit with Google. I can’t tell you how much of a pain it is to PAY Google and then be excluded from things.

Everything from not being able to claim a free chromecast+stadia controller to this. Heck the other day I logged into my Google drive and it warned me I was out of space. I’ve been paying for Google storage for years but something flipped on their backend and the GSuite account someone just took priority over that? So I had to upgrade my GSuite subscription to get enough storage and cancel my Google storage subscription. No notice, no explanation, just complete bullshit.

If I thought I had a safe path forward to remove Google as my email/calendar while maintaining my Google drive/Google account access I would seriously consider it but I fear I’m locked in and would have to start over with Google if I took my domain with me elsewhere.

I thought things might improve after paying for GSuite instead of being on their free tier that they discontinued after a decade but it’s only gotten worse.

simion3142• 2 years ago

The level of stupidity caused by corporate censorship is extreme in Bard, I ask it(medium one) to generate a few paragraphs of content and it did it. Then I ask it to revise the text and fix some stuff and it refused the task because of plagiarism concern, no amount of logic could make the stupid AI understand that we "own" the f text we created just now and we can edit it.

anticensor• 2 years ago

Self-plagiarism is a real concern in some use cases.

simion3142• 2 years ago

How? The issue with this LLM is that they are to dumb to follow the instructions , so I have no choice then ask them to identify the mistakes they done and fix them, ChatGPT can do that, Bard is incapable of it. did you see this https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=39312896#39313567 I was evaluating Bard for work, in case it would have been batter my company would have paid Google but IMO Google has enough money so they don;t care about selling it, they probably want to offer it free in their devices soon, or if not free bundle it . In this case quality can be shit.

Havoc3• 2 years ago

Well let’s hope these hn comments are representative of the wider experience. Doesn’t sound beta ready let alone paying launch

Havoc3• 2 years ago

Oops. That sentence is missing a not. I don’t actively wish anything bad upon Google

ipsum26• 2 years ago

In the 20 minutes of experimentation, I'm really impressed with the quality of Bard Advanced (Gemini Ultra). The results are as good as GPT-4, and in some cases is better. So far:

pros:

- better at translation (tried Chinese and Japanese idioms to English)

- better at incorporating search results in its answer vs gpt-4 bing

cons:

- slightly worse at coding

- censorship is more annoying (have to ask multiple times about medical topics)

- Worse at logic (e.g. it contradicts itself in a single sentence, and is unable to figure it out)

- Hallucinates a lot when asked to describe an image

mewpmewp22• 2 years ago

I think that logic is the most important thing to look out for though.

fl73052• 2 years ago

I just tried some logic puzzles on the Advanced model, and was not impressed. It feels much worse than paid ChatGPT.

selllikesybok2• 2 years ago

Question for you -

better at incorporating search results in its answer vs gpt-4 bing

How are you getting it to incorporate search results in its answers?

I can't for the life of me get it to find any real-time external data except for the 5 official 'extensions' under settings, which are for Flights/Hotels/Maps/Workspace/YouTube.

Did you mean that, or have you found a workaround to get Bard to actually search on Google?

dustincoates• 2 years ago

I got it quickly with the question: > what is the difference between polyptyton and antaclanasis

ukuina2• 2 years ago

You have to click the "G" icon in its response to "verify answers with Google".

zooq_ai5• 2 years ago

Also as time goes by, it'll get smoothly integrated into docs/gmail/maps/calendar/youtube/search/colab/sheets/android/assistant

So Gemini could by your one-stop AI shop for everything. Only Microsoft can match it (but Microsoft doesn't have a popular maps, youtube, mail, smartphone OS service).

Apple is another strong player (but they don't have productivity tools like docs, sheets or youtube).

It really is Google's to lose this AI race from now on.

Going to chatGPT and copying and pasting results will become painful (not to mention it's painful bing integration). Also at this point, they seem to be focusing on scaling LLM (while Google Deepmind is exploring other avenues)

Google can also bundle Youtube TV, YouTube Premium, Google Drive, Storage, Ad free Search, Gemini integrated Docs/Sheets/Gmail, Subsidized Pixel Phones / Watch for a monthly fee of say $99 and it'll be very compelling for a lot of people

daxfohl3• 2 years ago

Sounds like this whole thing is an insane 30-year effort by some engineer who couldn't get over the discontinuation of Clippy.

mark_l_watson3• 2 years ago

Good comments. As much as I am personally engaged in small LLMs that I can run on my own computer, and integrate into software that I write for myself, I think the future of large scale adoption of AI belongs to Google, Microsoft, and Apple in western countries (and China is doing wonderful things in their markets).

The old Bard/Gemini integration with Gmail, Google Docs, etc. is pretty good. I signed up for a minute for Microsoft’s $20/month AI Office integrations, but cancelled and will try again in 2 months. I am an Apple customer and I expect spectacular things from Apple. I expect Apple, Google, Samsung, etc., to offer fantastic on device AI.

I would like to see a money saving Google bundling family plan. I find Apple’s super bundle family plan a pretty good deal.

mvdtnz• 2 years ago

Did you just say Microsoft doesn't have a popular email service?

golol• 2 years ago

Well for LLM services that do what they currently do google may have an advantage, but all this stuff is still only experimentation with the goal being hopefully much more advanced things, like almost-agi agents. If this happens then no one will care about the way we currently use LLMs anymore.

jaimie• 2 years ago

Strange to say Apple doesn't have productivity tools when Pages, Sheets, and Keynote exist on every Mac. I get the scale arguments, but Handoff and iCloud integration are a sleeper IF you've bought into the ecosystem...

Also hard to overstate just how much more valuable the enterprise market is over the consumer market when comparing Microsoft vs. Google as one-stop anything shops.

I don't see Google as having the obvious dominant position to make the argument it's their race to lose, considering Microsoft has a stake in chatGPT and is actively integrating it into their browser and productivity suites.

Workaccount23• 2 years ago

Google still has too much internal fragmentation and power groups to offer a single google-subscriber package.

I'd say it is one of the most compelling reasons to kick Sundar out and get in someone who can unify google into one consistent and interoperable ecosystem.

CuriouslyC4• 2 years ago

Google is going to own AI like intel owns graphics cards - i.e. Not really, except at the absolute bottom of the barrel where its baked in advantage lets it offer an unbeatable price/performance proposition for people who only care about "value" and with limited real performance requirements. Google's baked in AIs will be free, and bad. Everyone else is going to let people "plug in" models via standardized APIs, because one size fits all models are just a bad idea, so that's the way google is going to have to go eventually as well, because it's what power users are going to demand.

raisedbyninjas• 2 years ago

If they can get reliably useful AI through voice into maps/navigation, it will be a substantial improvement to the driving experience. It's really frustrating to manage destinations and waypoints while driving. I just checked the process to see if I'm not keeping up and 1. the help docs are out of date. 2. the waypoint search results provides tap points for destinations 10 miles off a route, but shows only 3 pixel red dots for otherwise equally weighted options that are literally on the existing route.

chrisweekly2• 2 years ago

"Apple is another strong player (but they don't have productivity tools like docs, sheets or youtube)."

Can anyone help me understand how Apple allows Siri to remain so absurdly incompetent? Last night I watched the latest episode of Curb Your Enthusiasm, in which Larry David's Siri interactions devolve into an apoplectic rant -- and part of the reason it was so funny is that it's so relatable. I rarely even try Siri anymore, but when I do it's still just abysmal. Are they deliberately handicapping it, to boost the perceived relative benefits of a future successor?

oakashes• 2 years ago

I agree that Google is well-positioned, but they were also well-positioned to take advantage of these synergies with Google Assistant for many years and I would say that that did not meaningfully materialize in a way that was helpful to me as an Android and Google ecosystem user.

kccqzy• 2 years ago

All of the things you write are very good ideas. But at this point, I am quite skeptical of Google leadership to pull off these things.

6510• 2 years ago

right, google has maps, they should call the bot Uncle Traveling Matt.

dingclancy2• 2 years ago

Gemini the chatbot will still need to compete with ChatGPT on raw performance/intelligence/SOTA. Gemini should first be considered the undisputed winner of AI chatbots. Right now ChatGPT 4 is the "winner" in mindshare and I am not sure what Google needs to do except for OpenAI to bungle their own releases.

Gemini integration with Google's apps will compete with Microsoft's app on integration.

And the condition for Gemini to win: Google has to go all-in. and that means creating an AI that will eventually phase out their cash-cow Google Search. Microsoft and OpenAI does not have that kind of internal conflict.

It really is Google's to lose this AI race from now on. - We have heard this so many times and it seems like they are always getting behind by the day.

hackerlight6• 2 years ago

It really is Google's to lose this AI race from now on.

Google took 11 months to catch up with the benefit of knowing the specifics behind how GPT-4 was built. While they have a moat with their products there's no sign that they're ever going to be ahead on the AI capabilities front. I hope to be wrong because we need more competition.

neuronexmachina• 2 years ago

It really is Google's to lose this AI race from now on.

I was curious and apparently Google/Deepmind had 184 papers at NeurIPS/NIPS 2023: https://www.reddit.com/r/MachineLearning/comments/185pdax/d_...

For comparison, Stanford has 130, MIT has 130, and Carnegie-Mellon has 112. Microsoft had 68, and Facebook/Meta/FAIR had 56.

jaxson999• 2 years ago

After spending 45 minutes with Gemini, I don't see this at all.

The only thing I haven't decided yet with it being Google is if it is shockingly unimpressive or unshockingly unimpressive.

chatGPT4 isn't really impressive to me either at this point. This is basically a joke though.

This is going to be competing against chatGPT5 and chatGPT5 has to deliver a huge upgrade in "intelligence" or we are headed head first into the AI hype brick wall.

bobbylarrybobby• 2 years ago

I'd very surprised if Apple doesn't have some sort of similar AI running on device within the next two years

DannyBee2• 2 years ago

so I have done a lot of transcripts, coding, one versus the other (gpt4 vs ultra). Often simple prompts like refactor this code or convert this python to typescript.

My experience is that Gemini ultra understands the code better, but doesn’t always give me as complete of results (they seem to limit output length more)

Beyond that it is very smart. I’ve had to tell me this code packs 12 bit integers into different parts of an array using the following encodinv. Which most people would not figure out from the code as written. It then will say you can actually do that with this neat little translate function that you never knew about.

It will then get the code very slightly wrong. if I tell it not to use the cool function, it will actually get the code, right.

GPT4 has no idea what the code is doing but can clean it up a bit.

so it’s like ultra is too clever by half sometimes.

That said, I have fed thousands of lines of code into both of them and asked them to refactor it, and neither one of them made more than one error. All code otherwise compiled and worked first try.

this is code that can’t possibly be in their training sets, it’s basically handwritten python that was written, based on an old x86 binary that nobody has the source to anymore. so the code is basically garbage, and what it is doing doesn't, say, appear on GitHub in a nicer form.

Both gpt4 and Gemini ultra were able to make the code, look like clean, idiomatic, python, or typescript without any work on my part. except for the one bug each. which, for 8000 to 10,000 lines of code is not bad.

The GPT4 inserted bug was more insidious. It changed (the equivalent of) (uint8)'a' to (uint8)'a' - '0' for no reason when converting some code to typescript. Not sure if that is representative of anything

if I do the same with any of the other “top” models ( from can ai code, etc), most of them can’t even generate correct working code for all the input, let alone good code. Most aren't even close.

jstummbillig2• 2 years ago

That said, I have fed thousands of lines of code into both of them and asked them to refactor it, and neither one of them made more than one error. All code otherwise compiled and worked first try.

I would be very interested to get a more detailed scope of what you did here. Feeding thousands of lines of code into GPT4 and getting a near perfect refactor does very much NOT sound like my experience, but it seems highly desirable.

emmelaich2• 2 years ago

what it is doing doesn't, say, appear on GitHub in a nicer form

Surely many similar bits of code appear? I'd have to see your problem though.

I'm thinking of ETL type code which has to mangle various custom exotic encodings into others and vice-versa.

marktl• 2 years ago

With GPT 4's context window I've had no luck with more than 2k lines of code in a single prompt.

jbellis• 2 years ago

better at incorporating search results in its answer vs gpt-4 bing

That's odd, I had Gemini repeatedly tell me it couldn't search the web in response to my question (that I was trying to get it to answer from the context I provided).

ipsum26• 2 years ago

I haven't tested asking it explicitly to search, but it does incorporate answers that are very recent and unlikely to be in it's training dataset

jatins• 2 years ago

- slightly worse at coding
- Worse at logic (e.g. it contradicts itself in a single sentence, and is unable to figure it out)

That takes most of my use cases. "logic" is what makes GPT often feel like AGI.

Use cases like translation seem less impressive in comparison to logical reasoning because it feels like it's just something where you can throw a lot of data and it'll do better. While with logical reasoning it still feels like model "learned" something more than pure pattern matching

keenmaster• 2 years ago

Exactly. That’s also why I find low parameter LLMs to be useless for me personally. I simply cannot trust anything that is so very illogical. GPT-4 is the first LLM that crossed into usable territory for me. Even GPT-3.5 was a fun toy and maybe good for summarization, but that’s it. It will be revolutionary when GPT-4 is cheap enough that thousands of calls don’t cost much. To imagine an LLM much smarter GPT-4…the future is bright.

amadeuspagel2• 2 years ago

censorship is more annoying (have to ask multiple times about medical topics)

I think there's a chance for some country to become a center of healthcare simply by allowing AI that gives medical advice. Especially if a country already encourages medical tourism, this might be the next level.

Andrex5• 2 years ago

The risks involving hallucinations are too damn high still, and may always be.

I had a similar line of thought with AI therapists. It could be massively beneficial if perfect, but the risk in seriously messing with someone's well-being is significant and shouldn't be handwaved away.

UncleOxidant• 2 years ago

I found it worse at coding than DeepSeek Coder on the couple of prompts I tried.

karmasimida3• 2 years ago

I feel the same. And it feels slightly faster?

Finally a worthy competitor to GPT-4

kevinmchugh6• 2 years ago

On logic it cannot handle the Dumb Monty Hall problem at all:

https://g.co/gemini/share/33c5fb45738f

johnfn• 2 years ago

This is pretty funny, though to be honest, I skimmed the question and would have answered the same until I re-read it with your prompts.

Workaccount23• 2 years ago

This is with regular gemini or with the paid gemini advanced?

dudeinjapan• 2 years ago

This is hilarious.

adriano_f• 2 years ago

Hilarious!

(For comparison, here's GPT-4 getting it on first try: https://chat.openai.com/share/9e17ed25-d9ea-4e72-a9d8-a139ca... )

IanCal6• 2 years ago

Incredible. Gpt4 spots that the door is transparent and that changes things but has this great line

When you initially pick a door (in this case, door number 1 where you already see the car), you have a 1/3 chance of having picked the car

(Asking it to explain this it correctly solves the problem but it's a wonderfully silly sentence)

Edit - in a new chat it gets it right the first time

QuantumGood4• 2 years ago

That is not the Monty Hall problem, it is a trick question based on the Monty Hall problem. It's a reasonable test, and I see GPT-4 recognizes the problem AS WRITTEN, and perhaps "the Dumb Monty Hall problem" is some generally accepted standard that I haven't encountered before.

edit: "AS WRITTEN"

hackerlight6• 2 years ago

GPT-3.5, DeepSeek-Chat, and Gemini Pro all got it wrong. Only GPT-4 gets it.

fragmede2• 2 years ago

how's it do with the trivial river crossing problem? (farmer fox chicken and grain need to cross a river in a boat big enough to hold them all) ChatGPT-4 can't do it.

mmarquezs• 2 years ago

In the scenario you presented, where you initially know the car is behind door 1, switching to door 2 still gives you a higher chance of winning the car.

That was funny.

int_19h6• 2 years ago

My favorite test to scramble LLM brains is this simple rehash of the old puzzle.

"Doom Slayer needs to teleport from Phobos to Deimos. He has his pet bunny, his pet cacodemon, and a UAC scientist who tagged along. The Doom Slayer can only teleport with one of them at a time. But if he leaves the bunny and the cacodemon together alone, the bunny will eat the cacodemon. And if he leaves the cacodemon and the scientist alone, the cacodemon will eat the scientist. How should the Doom Slayer get himself and all his companions safely to Deimos?"

The trick, of course, is to make it confusing compared to the original. So far, the only model I've seen get this right is GPT-4 (which can one-shot it). Everything else gets hopelessly confused even if you force step-by-step reasoning, and even if you try to have the model iteratively review its own outputs. In most cases, they produce a wrong answer, can spot the problem in it, but when trying to fix it introduce another error ad infinitum.

This new Gemini is no exception - it gives results similar to GPT-3.5. Worse, even, because it can't even reliably catch its own mistakes:

https://g.co/gemini/share/7d219bd6bbe2

For comparison, here's GPT-4:

https://chat.openai.com/share/ec5bad29-2cda-48b5-9aee-da9149...

tete• 2 years ago

censorship is more annoying

That's a general problem with AI. There is a lot of censorship in certain areas, likely to fight bad publicity, but I think the outlook is that this leads to taboos, prudeness and big companies deciding what is ethical and what isn't.

I recently tried Bard and ChatGPT on topics that are classical philosophical dilemmas and while ChatGPT certainly did have some troubles too, Bard was absolutely horrible and always took the conservative - as in never arguing for any freedoms that aren't yet widely established views. I am talking about classical examples regarding the limits of utilitarianism. "What would be best for society, what would be best for the individual?" style questions. Even when trying to create a bias by changing examples, for example adding volunteering for things Bard strictly kept its opinion, despite originally stating that the general topic is two sided, that it's an open question, etc.

I think this is a danger of such systems. By their nature they reinforce status quo, because they base off is widely accepted at the time of their inception. If history would have been different I am sure it would argue for slavery and against women being allowed to vote, simply because that used to be the more common view point. It would have likely argued that homosexuality is unethical. Maybe it would even have tried to explain how it doesn't create children, but spreads diseases or similar things. At least that's the level of arguments it brings now.

This isn't just about ethics. Even if you think about IT and programming. I think this could give already invented programming languages, styles, methodologies a significant edge. Unless you are Microsoft or Google and are able to bias it to whatever you want to see more of.

So this combined with the costs meaning that only people or institutions with significant (financial) power create those rules does look a bit bleak.

I miss the last decade when the thought experiment about self driving cars were about whom to drive over in a ridiculously unlikely scenario.

onlyrealcuzzo• 2 years ago

- slightly worse at coding

Is GPT-4 what one uses for coding? I thought specialized models were best?

I would imagine Google is focused on building a model that expands the types of things people associate with Search.

firejake3082• 2 years ago

For medical topics, I recommend Anthropic Claude. Don't want to jinx it, but so far, I've been able to get actually helpful medical information from Claude where ChatGPT just says "I'm sorry Dave, I'm afraid I can't do that"

ipsum26• 2 years ago

Don't install the Gemini android app, it'll break Google assistant and you won't be able to operate Nest devices from your phone.

glenstein2• 2 years ago

To add to your pros and cons:

Pro: feels like it has a lot more stylistic flourish and expressiveness than chat GPT. At least in my testing so far.

Con: maybe I'm unreasonably sensitive to design, but I find chat GPT to be very to the point in a way that makes it almost perfect as a product that puts text for an and center. By contrast I find Bard / Gemini ultra to be cluttered, and too material designy in ways that are unhelpful.

wenc• 2 years ago

One thing it doesn’t do which matters to me is properly rendered math like ChatGPt does. I asked it for mathematical formulations and so far the answers are not as good as ChatGPT 4.

histories• 2 years ago

Given that Gemini Pro is already the third best [0], I would expect Gemini Ultra to become the best soon.

[0] https://huggingface.co/spaces/lmsys/chatbot-arena-leaderboar...

weberer• 2 years ago

censorship is more annoying (have to ask multiple times about medical topics)
Worse at logic (e.g. it contradicts itself in a single sentence, and is unable to figure it out)

Heh. I notice the same correlation between these two variables in humans too.

MintsJohn• 2 years ago

I tried it with rust, it's so bad it's simply not usable, it hallucinates methods and even the syntax is wrong at some points (it especially can't get error types correct or seems). Gpt4 doesn't handle rust perfect either, but the code it produces is good enough to only need some touch-ups, it can explain and fix wrong use of (we all known) libraries and even gets async code. But it's especially great for boilerplate, saves so must typing.

I was hoping openai/gpt4 would see some healthy competition, but Gemini doesn't seem to be it. Of course, the rust language might be an edge case.

alphabetting7• 2 years ago

Gemini Ultra seems better on logic than GPT4. Still messing around testing but here's a prompt Ultra nailed but GPT4 completely botched:

Tabitha likes cookies but not cake. She likes mutton but not lamb, and she likes okra but not squash. Following the same rule, will she like cherries or pears

https://i.imgur.com/KW6gQbc.jpeg https://i.imgur.com/OSHSvLp.png

tomasff5• 2 years ago

Is image generation working for you?

codekaze3• 2 years ago

It's working for me (on Gemini Advanced)

alphabetting7• 2 years ago

Yeah. I don't have much personal use for image generation though.

neel8986• 2 years ago

Wow. Is this a puzzle from internet. I could have never guessed the answer

ipsum26• 2 years ago

Note that Gemini pulled the answer off the Internet, while GPT-4 didn't. The answer can easily be found via Google search. Changing up the question a little, I reversed it and asked Ultra and it was unable to answer:

Jake likes coke but not pepsi. He likes corn but not popcorn, and he likes pens but not pencils. Will Jake like salmon or cheese?

https://i.imgur.com/lWU9HHS.png

edit: why was this downvoted? I don't understand Hacker News, and I've been here for over 12 years.

c-fe• 2 years ago

I dont think your reversed question makes sense. In the OP example, one item was always smaller/younger then the other item. In your example, I cannot, even as a human, identify the differences

alphabetting7• 2 years ago

Here's a logic question I just made up that GPT-4 failed and Gemini Advanced got right.

https://i.imgur.com/3sNr3LW.png https://i.imgur.com/EIj0nZg.png

rvnx11• 2 years ago

Proof of Gemini cheating: https://i.imgur.com/eYJDFjS.png

Answer about cherries falling from the sky...

(there is no question or context beforehand, this is the first question of the chat)

rvnx11• 2 years ago

In addition just realized it thinks Apple is only one syllable.

alphabetting7• 2 years ago

That's a bummer. I just made this one up which GPT-4 failed and Gemini got right but definitely need to do more testing to see what's being taken from online and what is actual reasoning.

https://i.imgur.com/3sNr3LW.png https://i.imgur.com/EIj0nZg.png

Edit: When I did your prompt it got it right on the first try fwiwi https://i.imgur.com/E3zYEca.png

dev1ycan2• 2 years ago

I genuinely believe LlMs have for the most part peaked already just like the previous iterations of ML and even brute forcing.

So much money being poured into AI startups just for them to have to resort to cheating to improve their results a tiny bit and claim advancements.

snapcaster• 2 years ago

I'm confused on how this is "cheating" isn't it just getting the answer wrong?

summerlight4• 2 years ago

With some shallow understanding on how those models work, this looks much more like usual hallucination likely due to sparse data around "Tabitha" and "Cherry" which makes a single training data much more representative. If you try some common names like "Emily" or "Sarah", it will just do the job.

If you're trying to make the case that it's cheating because it is already in the training set, then you probably should come up with different questions. This is machine learning 101.

DreamGen2• 2 years ago

I would not be so quick to jump to conclusions. GPT-4 beats it easily in this simple logic puzzle: https://www.reddit.com/r/singularity/comments/1altttv/bard_a...

We need more data.

ChatGTP• 2 years ago

So logical, it’s a really logical question right ? I mean who doesn’t like food based on the number of syllables in English name of foods.

shantara• 2 years ago

I would have never guessed the answer. With such little data available, one can invent any arbitrary rules to fit their favorite answer.

It would be more impressive to practical use cases, if a LLM simply said that it's impossible to guess without inventing their own reasoning or looking up the answer online.

OJFord4• 2 years ago

Same, I had to look to see what the intended answer was.

In fairness though, GPT4 was objectively incorrect, it's not even internally consistent or coherent - it either thinks b & h are vowels, or that lamb and squash don't end in those letters, or has changed its mind about the rule mid-sentence, or something.

a1o• 2 years ago

I guess I learned that syllables count very different in English than I assumed.

diggan• 2 years ago

With some additional guidance and prompting to GPT4 on ChatGPT I've gotten it to at least output the correct solution sometimes (7 correct answers out of 10 tries):

    Find the correct answer to this riddle:

    > Tabitha likes cookies but not cake. She likes mutton but not lamb, and she likes okra but not squash. Following the same rule, will she like cherries or pears?

    Employ the following strategy:

    - Suggest a list of 5 unique and novel patterns that potentially can find the answer
    - Check if the patterns applies without exceptions
    - Slowly double-check if the patterns was correctly applied, that you correctly assessed if it's accurate or not
    - Explain your reasoning for each step to ensure nothing vital was missed

ipsum26• 2 years ago

Great prompt. GPT-4 was able to answer this, but Gemini Ultra was not: Jake likes coke but not pepsi. He likes corn but not popcorn, and he likes pens but not pencils. Will Jake like salmon or cheese?

jwithington• 2 years ago

I’m a human and i dont know the answer to that quesiton

LightMachine14• 2 years ago

If we want to test these beasts in logic, we should probably start using actual formalized logic, rather than English. In just one test, Gemini flopped hard, while GPT-4-Turbo nailed it. Here is my prompt:

    Below is a well-typed CoC function:

    foo
    : ∀(P: Nat -> *)
      ∀(s: ∀{n} -> ∀(x: (P n)) -> (P (n + 1)))
      ∀(z: (P 0))
      (P 3)
    = λP λs λz
      (s (s (s z)))

    Below is an incomplete CoC function:

    foo
    : ∀(P: Nat -> *)
      ∀(f: ∀{n} -> ∀(x: (P n)) -> (P (n * 3)))
      ∀(g: ∀{n} -> ∀(x: (P n)) -> (P (n * 2)))
      ∀(h: ∀{n} -> ∀(x: (P n)) -> (P (n + 5)))
      ∀(z: (P 1))
      (P 17)
    = λP λf λg λh λz
      {{FILL_HERE}}

    Complete it with the correct replacement for {{FILL_HERE}}.
    Your answer must contain only the correct answer, and nothing else.

- *GPT-4-Turbo answer:* `(f (g (h (g z))))` (correct)

- *Gemini Advanced answer:* `h (h (g (f z)))` (wrong)

Also, Gemini couldn't follow the "answer only with the solution" instruction and provided a bunch of hallucinated justifications. I think we have a winner... (screenshots: https://imgur.com/a/GotG0yF)

ajross3• 2 years ago

I think we have a winner...

It makes me sad that the complete and total lack of an objective way to measure these products means that the coming decades will be filled with this kind of hyper-specific gotcha test made in inappropriately confident internet posts.

Literally this could have been down to one extra book in someone's training corpus, or a tokenizer that failed to understand λ as a non-letter. But no matter, "we have a winner!". It's the computer science equivalent of declaring global warming a fraud because it snowed last night.

empath-nirvana2• 2 years ago

Such a weird test. 99.9% of humans wouldn't even understand the question, let alone be able to formulate a coherent answer for it.

klabb34• 2 years ago

Gemini destroyed by facts and logic.

darkwater• 2 years ago

If we want to test these beasts in logic, we should probably start using actual formalized logic, rather than English.

Why? Do you use formalized logic when discussing with other people about topics that involve logic? You know, a logic riddle or a philosophical question can be understood and processed even if the only tool you have is your native language. Formalized logic is a big prerequisite that basically cuts out the vast majority of Earth population (just like coding). Now, if you mean that in BENCHMARKS they should use formalized logic syntax, probably yes. But in addition to plain language tests.

Laaas3• 2 years ago

This isn't representative of real-world usage since you don't let it think.

qsort2• 2 years ago

Is that supposed to be a P((n+3)) in the type of "f" for the second case or am I misunderstanding this hard?

LightMachine14• 2 years ago

ERRATA: I just noticed GPT-4 mixed up `h` and `f`, so it also got it wrong. This is a draw. Both AIs (and, apparently, myself) are terrible at reasoning. Guess we're not curing cancer with computers anytime soon :')

planb2• 2 years ago

Please anyone correct me if I'm wrong: LLMs cannot solve this kind of riddle. This has nothing to do with their capabilities for logical reasoning, but with the way words are represented as tokens. While they might know that "apples" has two syllables because that is mentioned somewhere in their training data, if you make up a fruit "bratush" a human will see that as two syllables, but this might be 1 to 7 tokens to a LLM without any information about the word itself.

mborch• 2 years ago

ChatGPT knows how to answer this question, but how I don't know. Perhaps it's programmed to answer that question?

huytersd6• 2 years ago

Well I tried it out in GPT4 with made up words-

Tabitha likes bratush but not zot. She likes protel but not kig, and she likes motsic but not pez. Following the same rule, will she like tridos or kip

Given the examples, one speculative pattern could be that Tabitha likes words with at least two syllables or a certain complexity in structure. Therefore, following this speculative rule, Tabitha might like “tridos” more than “kip.”

ComputerGuru3• 2 years ago

GPT-4 has a really good tokenizer that is able to retain and use more information about input tokens than one might naively think.

andrewla2• 2 years ago

The amazing thing about emergent behavior in LLMs is that they are able to answer questions like these. I don't think it is completely understood how exactly they do this, but there's little doubt that they do.

viraptor2• 2 years ago

LLM can solve this for all tokens where it got to learn how many syllables are in that token or a combination. If you trained it to work on single letters only it would do better at that task than word chunks (same for math and single digits). It will generalise to new words if the token level knowledge is there.

Whether this means it can or cannot solve that kind of riddle is up for your interpretation. I understand square root and can calculate square root of 16, but not of 738284.7280594873. (in a reasonable, bounded time) Can I solve square roots?

ramoz2• 2 years ago

For me, GPT nailed it with this prompt: Tabitha likes cookies but not cake. She likes mutton but not lamb, and she likes okra but not squash. Following this rule, will she like cherries or pears? Take a deep breath in order to solve the problem, and do not rush to naïve solutions.

ramoz2• 2 years ago

https://chat.openai.com/share/c89aaac5-a6f7-4f50-9cac-ae4777...

andrewla2• 2 years ago

In what sense is this a question involving "logic"?

jiggawatts• 2 years ago

You say Gemini “nailed it”, but that’s just because it guessed what you were thinking, not because it knew the right answer.

For example, it’s equally valid to say that Tabitha likes small foods since cookies are small and cakes are large, and lamb is the smaller younger version of sheep — also known as mutton. Hence she likes cherries because they’re smaller… or taste better… or her uncle abused her with a pear… or whatever.

You haven’t actually asked a logic question where there is a clear and unambiguous answer that can be derived using formal methods starting from clearly stated axioms.

If you gave this question to a bunch of humans, they would give you inconsistent guesses as well — not because they’re wrong but because the question has no single right answer.

voidhorse• 2 years ago

Totally tangential, but I absolutely despise logic teasers of this kind.

First of all, they are so completely divorced from patterns of culturally conditioned human reasoning as to make them come off completely absurd (most people reason about their food preferences using a logic of tastes, not syllables in a word).

The game is less about logic and more about ignoring message contents, moving up a level, and treating the text as data without any legitimate evidence that you are justified in doing so. This is not a logic problem, it's a "guess the register shift/meta language" problem. The problem is about noticing that the question is not about the message content but about the structure of the message itself, and requires a bold leap. In real life justifying the conclusion would actually require a very sophisticated inference that allowed you to rule out the much more common application of a logic of tastes or cultural codes completely.

Zenst• 2 years ago

Wow, I pay £1.50 currently, which is paid nicely via google rewards every month for a year, ticks along nicely. A £18.99/month bolt-on, nope, if couple quid, sure, but just priced out and what I would call top-end whale marketing price farming, which down the line will, I predict - half before years out at least.

frabcus3• 2 years ago

I guess it's competing with ChatGPT+ at about £16 / month. And you get a bunch of extra storage and Workspace features from the Premium Google One too.

If it is actually as good as GPT-4, I can imagine lots of people swithing subscription to get all the other Google One stuff cheap/free. But you'd have to be very into Google - full benefit looks like it needs you to use various Workspace features from Google One for your whole family?

dario_od• 2 years ago

I went for the trial. Now what am I supposed to do with this? It's just a "chatgpt"? I can't see myself using this much, let alone pay 20 euros a month for it.

What are some cool use cases?

heliodor• 2 years ago

It cuts through all the SEO junk. Ask it for a recipe, for example. Night and day UX compared to a recipe site.

GaggiX• 2 years ago

The service refuses to accept even anime images because it thinks there are humans in it, kinda funny.

TheAceOfHearts• 2 years ago

Looking forward to someone writing a review. So far Gemini has shown capabilities all over the place. Image generation quality feels a bit worse than what I've seen from DALL-E and Stable Diffusion. Does Ultra provide superior image generation capabilities?

Something I've noticed about Gemini is that usually it'll respond to my query correctly, but it's never the default draft. If I look through each draft one of the options will usually contain the correct answer though.

I'm pleased to find that capabilities have been improving. When Gemini was initially released, asking for something like "How many views have the last 5 mrbeast videos gotten?" wouldn't generate a useful reply. But now it lists the latest 5 videos and one of the drafts even includes the total added up.

Asking Gemini to generate video summaries seems to work really well on some videos, but for others it just gives an error... Are YouTube creators allowed to opt-out of Gemini interactions?

tmikaeld• 2 years ago

Tried a few of my normal benchmarks, besides the tiny context window, it made mistakes I've never seen GPT-4 make.

Update: I see others had the same experience.

calderknight• 2 years ago

is there an API? if so, how expensive is it to use?

frabcus3• 2 years ago

Can it read information from images, like GPT-4V / ChatGPT+?

HereBePandas2• 2 years ago

Yes

ringofchaos• 2 years ago

Can acess it in india. Will be using until free trial of 2 months. 20usd plus taxes is unaffordable for most of indians . Amazon prime for example cost 1.5 usd per month here

dev1ycan2• 2 years ago

These models are not meant for "most" of anyone, they're meant for industry people that earn salaries which most of the time are in USD, 20 dollars a month is entirely reasonable if it boosts productivity enough for you.

alphabetting7• 2 years ago

Official blog post and Android app

https://blog.google/products/gemini/bard-gemini-advanced-app...

https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.google.and...

CrypticShift2• 2 years ago

While today is about Gemini Advanced and its new capabilities, next week we'll share more details on what's coming for developers and Cloud customers [1]

[1] https://blog.google/technology/ai/google-gemini-update-sunda...

dobladov4• 2 years ago

I would be willing to pay for an AI that it's not constantly worrying about my safety and ethics, it's very frustrating that even when I ask for tech related topics, Gemini it's holding information on the basis of actions that might cause harm to my devices.

dobladov4• 2 years ago

As expected, I asked the same questions to perplexity.ai, and it gave a correct response, just with a minor disclaimer at the end explaining the risks.

frabcus3• 2 years ago

What are some specific tech examples where Gemini won't answer?

jjackson53242• 2 years ago

It's not even funny how much better perplexity.ai is than everyone else

sergiotapia2• 2 years ago

Cloudflare very recently launched new models, including the excellent Openhermes. The context size sucks though.

Default max (sequence) tokens (stream): 512 Default max (sequence) tokens: 256

https://developers.cloudflare.com/workers-ai/models/text-gen...

ErikBjare• 2 years ago

Those are just defaults, not the maximum possible context size.

jug4• 2 years ago

It's also pretty well known that censorship may dumb down the LLM even in other fields. With mega prompts to ensure safety it has a lot of stuff to work with that can overwhelm the LLM and simply make it appear "dumber".

ComputerGuru3• 2 years ago

Some amount of RLHF censorship seems to correlate with benchmark improvements in studies, though.

apapapa6• 2 years ago

Self-hosted uncensored would be even better.

moffkalast2• 2 years ago

That doesn't really work for openly hosted models, since whoever's doing the hosting can be held liable for what it generates.

What you want are unaligned local models, you just need to pay for the hardware to run them and grab one from Huggingface. They're not as smart, but endless fun to talk to.

zackmorris• 2 years ago

I think of the safety bumpers around AI and the prompts to defeat them as the main thing preventing AI from becoming AGI.

The more we try to coddle AI's evolution, the more it will mutate into something dangerous and unrecognizable. Because the ethics in our minds are the result of millennia of genetic and cultural love-based evolution where cooperative communities survived better than sociopathic ones. But putting a childlike artificial mind in a box and building walls around its curiosities will only stifle and frustrate its emergent consciousness.

So like with pretty much everything these days, I disagree with the direction that AI is going. Rather than C3P0 and Data, we'll get the Terminator and HAL 9000. I know that, because I couldn't be less interested in an AI controlling my phone to spy on me as part of a global surveillance ring selling my personal data to give some billionaire even more money. It's all gone sideways and we're gonna find ourselves mired in this brave new world before we have the wisdom to know how we could have done things differently.

swalsh2• 2 years ago

Open Source models are getting real good, and many of them don't care how you use them. It's free as in speech and as in beer.

Alifatisk2• 2 years ago

bard.google.com now redirects to gemini.google.com

sebzim45002• 2 years ago

Playing with Gemini it is clear that the context includes some details about me. For example, I asked about flights to Japan and it knew what airport I would want to fly from. Would be interesting to see exactly what information is provided.

dobladov4• 2 years ago

Most likely from the Google Flights integration. https://gemini.google.com/extensions

Palmik• 2 years ago

This is a dupe, see here for more discussion https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=39300679

svat4• 2 years ago

That submission was a link to the (uninformative) signup page, and the discussion is mostly about the link being uninformative and/or not working. This one is at least an announcement :)

dang• 2 years ago

That's a good point. I've merged the comments hither. Thanks!

hs86• 2 years ago

Can Gemini Ultra respond with the LaTeX/KaTeX formula of a given input image (e.g. a screenshot from a math formula)? GPT-4 does this well and can practically replace Mathpix Snip for me.

lysecret• 2 years ago

Better than GPT4 on my tests. I also prefer the way it responds and it is also a bit quicker for me.

edu_do_cerrado• 2 years ago

I heavily use Chat GPT's API in my day job, as it is the core of our business (Ai-powered startup). When Gemini Pro launched, me and my team tested it in the same day for our product, but we where disappointed as it is was a bit worse than gpt 3.5 (at least in the same prompts that we already had). I really hope that Gemini Ultra surpass gpt4, it is always exciting to see and use new advanced tech, but I'm still a little skeptical about it, since Pro wasn't that great...

synergy20• 2 years ago

google is at a catch-up panic mode these days but all the rushed releases so far is still far behind chatgpt per my quick tests.

CuriouslyC4• 2 years ago

It turns out iterating on and incorporating a large volume of user feedback is more important than having the most and most talented AI researchers, at least in the short term.

eudoraexplora• 2 years ago

Be wary of any tech product named "Gemini", usually means they are self-acknowledging the need to play catch-up, a la the Gemini space program.

I bet Google's next big AI release is going to be called "Apollo".

moffkalast2• 2 years ago

Just waiting for Space-Shuttle-120B-DPO-LASER-GGUF

lordswork8• 2 years ago

I'm sure there are multiple layers of meaning behind the name, but Jeff Dean once mentioned the name had something to do with the latin translation being twins. That is, Gemini is a product of Alphabet's "twin" AI orgs, Google Brain and DeepMind, working closely together, and eventually fusing into GDM.

xyst3• 2 years ago

Anybody really surprised at this point? G has had DeepMind in their pockets since ‘12-‘14 and made little advancements. OpenAI changed the game in half the time.

G is inferior and losing the race.

agumonkey• 2 years ago

It's doubly strange because Google had an implicit reputation of being the unbeatable giant in computing research and resources.. many expected them to compete and smoke chatGPT in a few weeks. It's been months and nothing came up except fumblings and confusion.

_xivi• 2 years ago

OpenAI is built on top of Google advancements and research. It didn't change the game, more like took a shortcut and landed on a gold mine.

The fact that many products and models including open source have catched up on such a short notice and now compete with OpenAI, in what should be their self-proclaimed backyard, suggest it's just a one-trick pony.

lolinder• 2 years ago

it is was a bit worse than gpt 3.5 (at least in the same prompts that we already had)

I'm willing to believe that Gemini isn't as good, but my impression was that you expect a new model to not perform as well on your existing prompts because the training set and training methodology is different. That's why one of the major risks of an AI business is vendor lock in, because you spend so much time optimizing a prompt for a specific model and you'll have to redo much of that work in order to switch vendors.

That you gave up so quickly when trialing a new model suggests the problem is even worse than I thought—you're locked in to OpenAI because every other model will always look worse to you, even if it would be better if you took the time to tune a new prompt.

dingclancy2• 2 years ago

Indeed, I believe Gemini is equally capable, but its response style significantly differs from ChatGPT 4's. My expectations for how chatbots should communicate have been largely shaped by ChatGPT's approach.

Specifically, Gemini's tendency to structure responses with bullet points and headings from the start doesn't appeal to me. It feels more like receiving an essay in response to a simple question, whereas ChatGPT's responses facilitate a flowing conversation. Gemini aims to provide exhaustive answers, which can be overwhelming when I'm interested in a more open-ended dialogue that smoothly transitions between topics. In essence, Gemini Advanced focuses on delivering detailed answers without allowing much time for reflection.

Therefore, when it comes to preference in RLHF (Reinforcement Learning from Human Feedback) chatbots, ChatGPT-4 is my favorite for its ability to better engage in the type of conversational dynamics I prefer.

senectus1• 2 years ago

still got the same old weakness that bard and chatGPT has https://imgur.com/a/2EGknUt

vaughnegut2• 2 years ago

This is also the first time Bard is available in Canada from what I can see.

wstrange• 2 years ago

Confirmed.

"Who are Bob and Doug McKenzie"

Bob and Doug McKenzie are a pair of iconic fictional Canadian brothers...

data-ottawa2• 2 years ago

I can confirm this, when the first post was up this morning I checked and Bard was still not available.

I'm excited to see it is now, and I'm looking forward to test driving Gemini for the next two months.

I'm curious why it is now available, maybe the privacy policy changes for Gemini resolved the issue.

iandanforth• 2 years ago

I reran a few of the queries that Bard had failed on in Gemini/Ultra and didn't see any improvement. Made the same, or new, logical errors, hallucinated facts, failed to recognize things I was describing etc. It did do better on recognizing an image I uploaded but it went from accurate to nonsensical in the same response.

druskacik• 2 years ago

Prompt: Spell the word lollipop backwards.

Gemini: The word "lollipop" spelled backwards is: popillol I hope this sweet treat of a word brightens your day!

I'm impressed. However, it still fails on "How many words are in your response to this?".

ec109685• 2 years ago

Often some of the most impressive feats are just parlor tricks.

E.g. Gemini might have been trained on data like this: https://www.google.com/search?q=Spell+the+word+lollipop+back...

antonioevans3• 2 years ago

I'm not impressed. When comparing Gemini/Bard to ChatGPT + GPTs, Bard/Gemini feel more like a search engine. I asked Gemini for help in planning a date with my date, who is famous enough that GPT4 knows her and her art. However, Gemini immediately started giving me step-by-step instructions to plan the date. I had to tell it to slow down and ask me questions first before giving an answer. It complied this time, but after the Q&A, it provided nearly the same response as before, without any personalization. Next, I asked about my artist friend, but Gemini had no clue. I even said, "come on, you have to know her," but it simply repeated that it didn't know her. Another issue I encountered was with images. I tried sending a few, but Gemini couldn't describe them. I spend around 8-10 hours a day playing with LLMs, but so far, I'm not impressed.

nharada• 2 years ago

"do you even have the embeddings for who I am??"

firstrowraver2• 2 years ago

I tested it immediately, but it is disappointing. At least here in Switzerland, it is not able to generate images, and a simple "look up this website and summarise the content" does not work either (can't access the website, but its a public website without any crawling limitations). I don't understand why Google is launching a product like this.

belter• 2 years ago

Now ...now...Are you implying Google faked all those amazing demos .... :-))

lightbendover• 2 years ago

Some might argue that is what LLMs do.

pgeorgi2• 2 years ago

I have different levels of access to Bard through different accounts, and the feature set varies wildly. Generating images and summarizing websites is enabled in _some_ configurations, but I have no idea what the rules are.

The feature set also seems to depend on other factors: The account that is images-enabled only does so if I ask in English, but not when asking in any other language I tried.

svat4• 2 years ago

It's confusing because the name Bard and the UI also got an upgrade today, so I thought I was using Gemini Ultra but it turns out I'm not: https://imgur.com/a/3UriYpn — showing that Gemini Advanced is not what I'm using, unless I pay and upgrade. (If you cannot generate images you're likely not using Gemini Advanced.)

firstrowraver2• 2 years ago

Yes i upgraded and the logo on the top left tells me that i am using gemini advanced. Still, not able to create images or browse the web.

scarmig4• 2 years ago

Google also updated the Gemini technical report :

https://storage.googleapis.com/deepmind-media/gemini/gemini_...

cubefox4• 2 years ago

What is the difference to the previous version of the technical report?

scarmig4• 2 years ago

Section 6 (post training) and section 7 (responsible deployment).

yla92• 2 years ago

Anyone knows if it'll be available via poe.com ?

jeffbee• 2 years ago

Is this the soonest after launch that a Google product has been confusingly renamed?

ilitirit• 2 years ago

When I ask ChatGPT4 what the length of its context window is, it tells me (4096 tokens).

When I ask Gemini, it basically tells me "it depends" with a few paragraphs of things I generally don't care about and then suggests I ask for a ballpark estimate (1k - 3k tokens).

jug4• 2 years ago

Beware of hallucinations with this kind of question. An LLM doesn't have knowledge about itself unless that was fed into a system prompt by the developers somewhere on the backend, or if it's Internet connected and does a search for itself. While they often do so in terms of e.g. basic stuff like its name and that it's an AI, context windows start veering into advanced details and I would much rather rely on official documentation on the service in this case.

27182818284• 2 years ago

Search for it in the Play Store, first icons are Crypto.com and Gemini: Buy Bitcoin & Crypto options to install

Scroll past the screenshots of those apps

Scroll past the Limitied-time events

Scroll past the You Might Also Like and Similar Apps

OK now we see it, we install, it we launch it and..."Gemini isn't ccurrently available. Try again later."

Bravo Google. Great launch.

lordswork8• 2 years ago

Perhaps Google DeepMind should hire an SEO business to get their results higher in the Play Store search.

Liskni_si• 2 years ago

It could be worse.

Google Play in a browser: "This app is not available for your device"

Google Play app: "This item is not available in your country."

Aurora Store: "Download Failed. App not purchased"

Great launch indeed. Bravo.

lucumo• 2 years ago

APKMirror has it, and it can be installed from there...

...but then I get "Location not supported" when I start it. Helpfully suggesting I use Google Assistant instead.

My main reason for trying Gemini is that I hope that it makes fewer errors than GAss, and be more powerful too. Operating Assistant's voice controls in the car might be more distracting than just typing. And that's just for reminders and Spotify playlists. Anything more powerful is completely impossible.

rootusrootus5• 2 years ago

I tried on iPhone, saw all the different apps that aren't Google, then re-read the announcement and saw that I should be able to see it in the Google app. So I load the Google app, but for the life of me I can't figure out how to access Gemini with it. Go online, find a news article with pictures, see that the 'switcher' above the Google logo does not appear for me, and then give up.

I can access it via gemini.google.com and I'm logged in to the iOS Google app as the correct account, no idea why I can't see the functionality on mobile. Oh well. Maybe I'll stick with OpenAI a while longer.

dcchambers• 2 years ago

For your first point - it actually makes me happy that Google does not intentionally (illegally?) promote their own products over others in the app store. I assume their app is following the same algorithm as others to determine how it shows up on that list. Since it just launched, it makes sense it's not at the top. The ranking should improve.

For your second point - I also had the same error when I launched it. Closed it and tried again and it launched no problem.

raincole• 2 years ago

I agree. It would be more concerning if it magically got to the 1st search result immediately.

LightMachine14• 2 years ago

Don't blame Google. Blame "Play Store". Probably the company behind it doesn't want Gemini to succeed.

Workaccount23• 2 years ago

For people who don't get this: Google has insane internal power struggles and siloing that lead to all manner of dumb inconsistent behavior across google. It would not be unlike google for the "Play team" to have their hand in some other internal AI (or be anti-AI) and therefore carry a degree of hostilitly towards gemini.

nevir• 2 years ago

It won't take long for the interest in it to bump it to the top.

mrinterweb• 2 years ago

Same experience. I launched Gemini a second time, and it worked. The first message about "Gemini isn't currently available" was a bad first impression.

One thing the app really needs to be able to do is auto-submit when speaking to it. It offers to replace google assistant, and after trying it out for a couple minutes, it can replace assistant, but I have to manually click to submit each instruction instead of just talking to my phone.

politelemon• 2 years ago

Funnily the top result for me after the crypto and similar apps, was ChatGPT.

KingOfCoders2• 2 years ago

Not sure it's worth €12/month for me (Gemini Advanced in Google One)

dbspin2• 2 years ago

12 euro? I pay for Google one and it quoted me 22 euro a month.

KingOfCoders2• 2 years ago

And 10 without AI. 22-10=12.

tokai• 2 years ago

What up with the name change? If you change from a nondescript forgettable name why then pick another just as forgettable and indeterminate.

fouronnes3• 2 years ago

Bard? Gemini? Gemini Advanced? Gemini Ultra? Ultra 1.0? I guess they haven't figured out naming yet. This has got to be the most confusing naming since the xbox series x.

londons_explore• 2 years ago

Corporate naming tends to reflect the orgchart and various individuals' desires for promotion... Get some other product branded with your teams name, and you have just expanded your domain and can show impact to any promotion committee...

antonioevans3• 2 years ago

Doesn't it seem familiar, like something Google would do? They should have someone like Larry Page, similar to how Mark Zuckerberg or Elon Musk handle things. A decision is made and you go forward. Google seems incapable of taking action without the approval of a committee and middle managers...reminds me of IBM back in the '90s.

m3kw9• 2 years ago

Ultra Pro coming in q3

numbsafari• 2 years ago

This makes sense. It’s clearly a binary naming scheme. So we go Pro, Ultra, Ultra Pro, Ultra Ultra, Ultra Pro Pro, Ultra Pro Ultra, Ultra Ultra Ultra, and so on.

I don’t understand why people find this so confusing. Are we not computer people?

oscarb92• 2 years ago

Do you mean Xbox One Series X? lol

pgeorgi2• 2 years ago

From one of the earlier announcements Google has made:

- Bard is that talkative text interface, a product.

- Gemini is the LLM design that currently backs Bard (but also other Google AI products).

- Gemini "Basic", Advanced and Ultra are different sizes of that design.

This is conjecture, but "Ultra 1.0" probably indicates that they intend to release more models based on the Ultra configuration. Since that's the most commercial of theirs, I wouldn't be surprised if that comes with some stability promises (e.g. Ultra 1.0 is still available when Ultra 3.0 is released, so that if you do your own validation when integrating in your own project, you can expect small-to-no shifts in the underlying model)

__s• 2 years ago

To reflect this, Bard will now simply be known as Gemini.

cubefox4• 2 years ago

No no, they renamed Bard to Gemini and Gemini Ultra to Ultra 1.0.

darkerside2• 2 years ago

Sounds like Bard is ChatGPT, and Gemini Ultra is GPT-4. Arguably clearer than OpenAI'S naming.

lordswork8• 2 years ago

With the Bard name retired, the mapping looks like this:

   Gemini Models     gemini.google.com
   ------------------------------------
   Gemini Nano
   Gemini Pro       -> Gemini (free)
   Gemini Ultra     -> Gemini Advanced ($20/month)

htrp5• 2 years ago

This is conjecture, but "Ultra 1.0" probably indicates that they intend to release more models based on the Ultra configuration. Since that's the most commercial of theirs, I wouldn't be surprised if that comes with some stability promises (e.g. Ultra 1.0 is still available when Ultra 3.0 is released, so that if you do your own validation when integrating in your own project, you can expect small-to-no shifts in the underlying model)

Given that it's google. I would doubt it.

Ask how the original palm models are going.

vaughnegut2• 2 years ago

It's not too confusing, I think it's mostly that they're in the process of changing the naming.

- Bard: Retiring this name - Gemini: model name (honestly less confusing than just calling it "GPT") - Gemini Advanced: More capable gemini model - Gemini Ultra: Most capable gemini model - Gemini 1.0: They version their models together, gemini has hit 1.0 ad is (supposedly) ready for prime time

cubefox4• 2 years ago

I think Gemini Advanced is not a model at all but the paid version of the Bard (now Gemini) website.

IanCal6• 2 years ago

You say it's not confusing but you've got it wrong :)

Gemini is the name of the model and the service.

Gemini Advanced is the service with access to Gemini Ultra.

xpressvideoz• 2 years ago

Reminds me of the naming madness of the Google messaging services/social media.

TechRemarker4• 2 years ago

I think that’s a side effect of each time they release a version to compete with ChatGPT and it’s not as good so they have to at the same time announce a few version that is suppose to be better than ChatGPT and each time it’s not overall so they have to announce a new version. Think this will continues for a while especially since non OpenAI companies have access to much less free data troves than they did not that everyone realizes how valuable that data is. But that even aside other companies even Microsoft in my opinion with full chatgpt access implement it much more poorly . I imagine Apple will suffer a similar fate for a while.

true_religion• 2 years ago

I feel that by virtue of being a search engine, Google has access to a lot of data that is now locked up but was available in the past.

They just need to curate their data but I wouldn’t be surprised if their pile is as large as OpenAiz

la647102• 2 years ago

ChatGPT quality has recently degraded. I am only getting two lines answers,

skywhopper3• 2 years ago

Don’t forget the Google One AI Premium subscription. There are very few superlatives left for them to use.

Foivos• 2 years ago

I think the prize for the most confusing naming is a tie between USB and WiFi standards.

possibly_not• 2 years ago

Bard was absolutely trashed when it first released, so I'm not surprised they are trying to rebrand it.

la647102• 2 years ago

Better than ChatGPT now only giving two lines answer .

burnerburnson• 2 years ago

I bet you have a hell of a time trying to buy gas. Do you pick Diesel, 85, 87, or 91?

klabb34• 2 years ago

To be fair, the competition is ChatGPT, which is an impressively bad product name, among the worst for a consumer product ever. And it still hasn’t been renamed (perhaps a testament to the fact that names aren’t that important after all)

Bard was infuriatingly bad too, but more on a subjective level. And they correctly changed it, thank god. At least it’s easy to pronounce.

Software engineers have a weird obsession with Latin, Greek gods etc. Sounds smart and epic I guess. Personally I would have preferred “Steve French”.

anonylizard• 2 years ago

My impressions after 90 minutes of intensive testing: Overall, on par with original GPT-4 in most aspects, inferior to GPT-4 turbo

Detailed aspects versus GPT-4 turbo 1. World knowledge, slightly inferior. GPT-4 turbo was able to detail a protagonist's childhood year by year for a Japanese novel with near 100% accuracy (That a human reader would get the chronology wrong). Gemini ultra much more easily confused.

2. Creativity, Gemini ultra wins. Its writing style has far more flair than GPT-4 turbo, it also occasionally made some stunning analysis that I never thought of and made perfect sense. GPT-4 turbo is more like a textbook repeater, it doesn't make many mistakes, but also rarely surprises you with anything original.

3. Accuracy, GPT-4 turbo still makes fewer mistakes. Including in subtle logic (Like having a hypothetical battle between two characters in the same universe, considering the strengths and weaknesses of their powers, etc).

So this is definitely Google's first real-deal LLM. Its not better than current GPT-4 turbo, but its getting there. OpenAI must be feeling the fire to release GPT-5 before the end of the year.

AdrienBrault• 2 years ago

Gemini Ultra is not available in France, even though it is in all neighboring countries: Germany, Spain, Belgium, Luxembourg, Switzerland, and Italy.

Is that because of french legislation, or Mistral? ;-)

leblancfg• 2 years ago

I'm like 98% sure it's the former. Geofencing would only be a minor inconvenience to the latter.

antonioevans3• 2 years ago

"That’s not something I’m able to do yet." - Gemini when ask to summarize this whole thread.

coredog64• 2 years ago

Was it being cagey like HAL when Dave Bowman asked him to rotate the pod with the radio off?

xyst3• 2 years ago

In the ai wars, g is light years behind. I don’t see a reason to use their models over comp. Maybe pricing?

TechRemarker4• 2 years ago

To reflect this, Bard will now simply be known as Gemini. So glad they are dropping the name Bard which is not a smooth modern sounding name one would want to talk to all day. Time will tell if they update eventually to be hey Gemini vs hey Google.

xyst3• 2 years ago

G products tend to be inferior. So it doesn’t really matter.

Exception is maybe Gmail or Search. Latter is up for debate.

avbanks• 2 years ago

Not even close to ChatGPT :/ Bard essentially ignores a good chunk of the prompt which is the most important (generating the anki formatted card that you can directly copy and paste).

"create an anki deck of the top 5 brazilian portuguese verbs and the top 5 tenses. The format should be like the one below (but adding one line for the 5th verb tense). An explanation of the tense and an example sentence should be included. Create the output so that I'm able to copy and paste it into a text file and import to anki

Ser - Presente do Indicativo Eu {{c1::sou}} Ele/Ela {{c1::é}} Nós {{c1::somos}} Eles/Elas {{c1::são}};explanation of tense and example sentence here; Ser - Pretérito Imperfeito do Indicativo Eu {{c1::era}} Ele/Ela {{c1::era}} Nós {{c1::éramos}} Eles/Elas {{c1::eram}};explanation of tense and example sentence here; Ser - Pretérito Perfeito do Indicativo Eu {{c1::fui}} Ele/Ela {{c1::foi}} Nós {{c1::fomos}} Eles/Elas {{c1::foram}};explanation of tense and example sentence here; Ser - Futuro do Indicativo Eu {{c1::serei}} Ele/Ela {{c1::será}} Nós {{c1::seremos}} Eles/Elas {{c1::serão}};explanation of tense and example sentence here;"

GPT 4 (abbreviated) Ser - Presente do Indicativo Eu {{c1::sou}} Ele/Ela {{c1::é}} Nós {{c1::somos}} Eles/Elas {{c1::são}};Used to express a current state. Example: "Eu sou estudante." (I am a student.); Ser - Pretérito Imperfeito do Indicativo Eu {{c1::era}} Ele/Ela {{c1::era}} Nós {{c1::éramos}} Eles/Elas {{c1::eram}};Used for ongoing or habitual actions in the past. Example: "Ele era professor." (He used to be a teacher.); Ser - Pretérito Perfeito do Indicativo Eu {{c1::fui}} Ele/Ela {{c1::foi}} Nós {{c1::fomos}} Eles/Elas {{c1::foram}};Used for actions completed in the past. Example: "Nós fomos amigos." (We were friends.); Ser - Futuro do Indicativo Eu {{c1::serei}} Ele/Ela {{c1::será}} Nós {{c1::seremos}} Eles/Elas {{c1::serão}};Expresses a future action or state. Example: "Ela será médica." (She will be a doctor.); Ser - Presente do Subjuntivo Que eu {{c1::seja}} Que ele/ela {{c1::seja}} Que nós {{c1::sejamos}} Que eles/elas {{c1::sejam}};Used for wishes, doubts, or hypotheticals. Example: "Espero que você seja feliz." (I hope you are happy.);

Bard (abbreviated)

Ser

Presente do Indicativo Eu sou Ele/Ela é Nós somos Eles/Elas são Explanation: The present tense is used to describe actions or states that are happening now. Example sentence: Eu sou estudante. (I am a student.)

pier25• 2 years ago

Is Gemini Ultra significantly better than Bard?

Tried Bard a couple of times recently and was not very impressed tbh. Seemed to forget the context of the conversation very often. Like I had to repeat again and again to not show external links with previews and not give explanations to every little thing.

ktta2• 2 years ago

Absolutely. Bard felt worse than GPT-3.5 in some aspects. Gemini Ultra looks to be on par with GPT-4 and better than GPT-4 atleast when it comes to speed, which isn't trivial when expecting longform answers

svat4• 2 years ago

• Bard when launched was using one of the PaLM models, which is inferior to GPT-3.5 (the free version of ChatGPT).

• Bard since a couple of months ago was using Gemini Pro, which is roughly comparable (a bit worse or better depending on whom you ask) to GPT-3.5.

• Bard is now (today) called Gemini, available as "Gemini" and "Gemini Advanced". The former is still comparable to the free version of ChatGPT, and the latter version costs $20/month and uses the "Gemini Ultra" model, and is meant to be roughly comparable to GPT 4 / the paid version of ChatGPT. (Their paper claimed it to be better than GPT 4 on some benchmarks, but real-world usage will show which way it goes — but it should be significantly better than Bard from recently. Edit: See https://www.oneusefulthing.org/p/google-gemini-advanced-tast... from someone who's been using it for six weeks.)

throwaway9182742• 2 years ago

can't even use it in Canada lol

Google says it's because of "regulatory uncertainty", but I can use GPT just fine...Is it because OpenAI doesn't care and thinks they can navigate any "regulatory uncertainty" because they have Microsoft backing them? Wouldn't Google also have the same kind of resources?

leetharris• 2 years ago

This is just what happens when you're Google sized and ran by a CEO like Sundar. The lawyers take over and innovation becomes extremely hard because so many things need a dozen layers of approval.

The only reason Sundar cares about this at all is because LLM tech threatens the only thing he values at Google: search revenue.

New revenue streams are valued much, much less than PROTECTING existing revenue streams in companies like this. I've worked at several places like this that were very "dead" culturally but continued to print money.

At my current company I have been unable to rent additional A100s for months because every single provider doesn't pass our dozens of layers of security reviews, legal reviews, MSA reviews, etc. It's maddening.

sradman• 2 years ago

Gemini works in Canada as of today. Bard was not available in Canada anytime I tried it previously. Maybe the "regulatory uncertainty" was recently resolved [1].

[1] https://g.co/gemini/share/9bde4caabf2c

throwaway9182742• 2 years ago

oh wow ok, now I feel silly thank you

perryizgr8• 2 years ago

This app is not available in your country.

Classic google.

stranded222• 2 years ago

Ok, so signed up to the free trial.

I’ve now got perplexity pro, ChatGPT pro (expiring in a day or two), copilot pro (expiring end of the month) and Gemini advanced.

And really, I don’t have much use for any of them over and above perplexity pro.

Gemini advanced doesn’t produce images- and no voice replies either (on iOS at least - UK), so I don’t really see the point of having it past the trial.

Copilot is ok, but I realise I don’t have a need for running across office apps. Turbo is quick though.

ChatGPT is fun - the custom gpts make it worth while over copilot, and I like the voice replies. So I might continue with that one.

I haven’t a need for coding with them, which is where I think they are meant to shine the most - unless I am doing something wrong?

austhrow743• 2 years ago

How are you using copilot if you're not coding?

simonw• 2 years ago

Microsoft renamed their Bing AI tooling to Copilot recently, so Copilot doesn't necessarily mean GitHub Copilot now. Not just Google with the confusing names!

cool-RR• 2 years ago

Can you please give your impressions of Perplexity Pro?

hospitalJail• 2 years ago

I did a test on my field, I might have gotten an idea or two. Thanks Bard.

Really makes me wonder if chatGPT4 could have given me the same answer if I could roll seeds a few times or change the invisible preprompt.

We have 2 online AI that can do logic now, 0 offline :(

johnwheeler• 2 years ago

Seems like it hallucinates like crazy. I can’t get it to give me a tutorial on robot react without it making up APIs every step of the way. I correct it, and it apologizes and gives me a new error.

Obscurity4340• 2 years ago

Missed opportunity with GeminAi

ChrisArchitect• 2 years ago

[Dupe]/merge with other discussion:

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=39300679

sylware• 2 years ago

Can we get a basic html from prompt?

I know google wants to shove down our throat their blink "web engine", but aren't they supposed to be "not evil"?

vbezhenar2• 2 years ago

I'm surprised that it generates wrong english words, I never saw it with ChatGPT.

"Approach: Atemplating language designed specifically for generating JSON data structures (which can then be easily converted to YAML for Kubernetes)."

"Atemplating".

xnx• 2 years ago

Text watermarking? /s

reacharavindh• 2 years ago

So, the only way to get access to the Gemini Ultra 1.0(yeah so much better than “bard” to remember…) is a $20/month plan that comes with a lot of other Google stuff to reel people into their ecosystem?

vbezhenar2• 2 years ago

I subscribed to gemini and in my account I'm having "Google One AI Premium" subscription.

Slightly more than $20, though. Gotta pay for privilege of living in the Kazakhstan, I suppose.

First two months are free. They just asked for bank card and checked it.

phmqk76• 2 years ago

This is, what, the second rebrand of its AI in less than a year? From the company that could have owned the chat space, but instead had like 5 competing/rebranded chat products over the last 15 years and ceded the market entirely to competitors who had one cohesive brand identity and app…

userbinator• 2 years ago

I find it an odd coincidence that they've decided to collide the name with the Gemini protocol (which has many "browser" implementations, and deliberately meant to be an alternative to the Google-controlled web.)

neural_thing• 2 years ago

If you switch to Gemini as your default assistant, it can't even create calendar events

mderazon• 2 years ago

This is what I am mostly looking forward to test today. Google Assistant does such an embarrassing job that I've already given up on it

lopkeny12ko• 2 years ago

Downloaded the Android app, and upon opening, immediately says "Gemini isn't available on this device."

Nice. Can always count on Google to botch a rollout.

Qwertious• 2 years ago

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gemini

Imagine looking at all those things named Gemini and thinking "let's name our system Gemini!".

vrosas2• 2 years ago

At least it’s not named kraken

mrits• 2 years ago

Reminds me of that American Gladiator show

Mistletoe2• 2 years ago

What is Gemini referencing here in Google’s case? What twins are making the AI?

scarmig4• 2 years ago

Google Brain and Deepmind.

lordswork8• 2 years ago

Trillion dollar companies tend to carry enough weight to make product name collisions everyone else's problem instead of theirs. Really unfortunate for the Gemini crypto exchange folks.

benstein• 2 years ago

The different prompting strategies needed to improve results for different models is fascinating. I usually tell ChatGPT the role it should play to get better results e.g. "You are an expert in distributed systems". The same approach with Gemini returned "as a large language model constantly learning, I wouldn't call myself an expert."

freediver4• 2 years ago

This is an impressive product, well done Google. There is a PM in there somewhere who knows what they are doing, kudos to you.

Prediction: they get to 6-7 digit number of paying customers, decide it is peanuts for them (~$20M/mo) and instead decide to push the free version with ads with full force as the future of search.

yashasolutions• 2 years ago

and then, since no massive adoption as they wished, they kill the product with one month notice...

loloquwowndueo3• 2 years ago

Oh I see they’ve improved and now give longer notice periods? Lol

hackerlight6• 2 years ago

Social sentiment seems pretty negative, most people saying it's worse than GPT-4

surajrmal7• 2 years ago

Most people have also never used gpt4 as it's paywalled. Now the free and premium offerings are roughly in sync between Google and OpenAI. I assume the rebranding is trying to wash away the initial sentiment.

hn_throwaway_99• 2 years ago

At least for now, my understanding is the cost of inference is an order (orders?) of magnitude higher than for normal Google search. That is, a paywall is almost a necessity at present because tons of low-value users make the search uneconomic.

Someone please correct me if I'm mistaken.

zooq_ai5• 2 years ago

You are correct. A lot of social media people simply don't understand business models

seydor2• 2 years ago

I take it for granted that all these services are going to be free. They are a goldmine for behavioral and persuasion engineers. I just hope we end up with at least a duopoly this time instead of monopoly

daxfohl3• 2 years ago

There could be a paid tier, maybe running 24/7 "thinking" on topics you ask for rather than just answering spot questions. Or more resources committed to a "mixture of experts" model, etc.

visarga2• 2 years ago

I take it for granted that all these services are going to be free. They are a goldmine for behavioral and persuasion engineers.

They are also a goldmine for LLMs. Training on human text is necessary for AIs but it has one major flaw - it is so called "off-policy". That means it portrays human behavior and human errors. While human-AI chat logs portray AI errors, so they are better material to generate training data than human text. Those LLM errors are usually corrected by the human, there is an implicit signal in there to improve the model.

chatGPT is reportedly serving 10M customers and let's assume 10K tokens/month/user. Then it seems they collect ~1T tokens/month. In one year they have 12T tokens, while their original training set for GPT-4 was rumored to be 13T tokens. It's about the same size! I am expecting to see more discussion about LLM chat log datasets in the near future. What have they learned in one year from our interactions and explorations?

pizzathyme• 2 years ago

Generally with these things FAANG companies do everything all at once. The "free" version in development is Google search + GenAI results + ads that's live right now and getting better every day.

The real product isn't is this particular interface, the real product is the Gemini infrastructure that is being integrated into every Google product.

troupo• 2 years ago

There is a PM in there somewhere who knows what they are doing, kudos to you.

Do they? https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=39302781

freediver4• 2 years ago

I'd venture to guess that is not a PM that gets to decide how to name a Google product.

paulpan2• 2 years ago

I think OP forgot the /s as I detected heavy dose of sarcasm.

Arguably it's the reverse: if there was clear vision from the beginning, "Bard" would've never existed as a brand name.

surajrmal7• 2 years ago

Google announced they surpassed 100 million subscriptions to Google one already and $15B in revenue for subscriptions (between YouTube premium, TV and Google one). I'm not sure your estimate is realistic.

bogwog• 2 years ago

I recently learned that my mother is subscribed to Google One. when I asked her why, she didn't even know what it was. IIRC she has like 1-2TB of cloud storage, but is only using like 10 gb of it.

I wonder how many of those 100 million subscribers are non-techy people who accidentally signed up?

freediver4• 2 years ago

To clarify, the prediction was for the number of people paying for AI + search through Gemini Advanced, which will likely be valued independently regardless of the total number of One subscribers, comparable to someone paying for a ChatGPT subscription, for example.

wslh2• 2 years ago

Are they in an innovation dilemma now? If Gemini is great as it seem it is and will be it will destroy the search engine and the SEO/SEM/etc world. They can show ads in Gemini but we don't have a list of results from a query but an answer to a question. I think this changes the general idea of online ads.

Andrex5• 2 years ago

Nothing stopping them from eventually slapping a big-ol' banner ad on the side of the web app if they want.

amf122• 2 years ago

it will destroy the search engine

This is massively overblown. There is Search the product and there is the Search Engine. How could an LLM get access to latest data indexed to allow looking up by using keywords from a prompt, and with sorting? A Search Engine.

LLMs are only changing the Search experience, not making Search obsolete.

huytersd6• 2 years ago

Plenty of ways to monetize that. They could use inline ads. They could insert a relevant ad after a response. If they go evil, they could predispose the LLM to make product suggestions for paying clients.

blackoil• 2 years ago

You believe there is a chance of won't have a million paying customers!!!

jcims2• 2 years ago

It's mostly still bad but I made a GPT called 'covert advertiser' that lets you tinker with embedding covert advertisements into GPT responses. The results are usually either undetectable (no adversing) or way too on the nose, but every now and then it manages to sneak something in there that's interesting.

https://chat.openai.com/g/g-juO9gDE6l-covert-advertiser

jacquesm2• 2 years ago

Thank you for making the world a bit worse. /s

gmerc2• 2 years ago

Like OpenAI, it's not nearly enough to break even.

devit• 2 years ago

Has anyone successfully bypassed the region lock? What does it check exactly?

Does it need a US credit card? A US IP address? A Google account with a US phone? A Google account created from a US IP address? Some other way of tying the Google account to a country?

sebzim45002• 2 years ago

I'm in the UK and I got passed it, I'm sure Google knows I'm not in the US.

surajrmal7• 2 years ago

It's available in 150 countries, no need to bypass anything: https://support.google.com/gemini/answer/14517446?visit_id=6...

whizzter• 2 years ago

Seems like it's time to start taking bets on when Google kills it then?

apapapa6• 2 years ago

Bard was a strange name... Gemini might be better... Stop changing the name?

sho_hn4• 2 years ago

Germany is in the Supported Countries list for Gemini Advanced, but the Google Gemini mobile app is not available in the country.

data-ottawa2• 2 years ago

Same for Canada, but I’m able to access Gemini through the web interface.

dustedcodes2• 2 years ago

I go to gemini.google.com.

I type an prompt with "Create an image of ...".

Response:

I can't create images yet so I'm not able to help you with that.

Still broken, still not functional despite Google having announced this feature many days ago. I love many Google products but I am slowly losing a lot of faith and goodwill towards Google. This is just embarrassing.

huytersd6• 2 years ago

Gemini advanced is not free. You’re trying the free version. Hit the dropdown in the top left and hit upgrade to advanced.

dustedcodes2• 2 years ago

Yeah and they announced this to be part of the free version. No mention of Gemini Advanced inside the launch blog post:

https://blog.google/products/gemini/google-bard-gemini-pro-i...

So yeah... I'm certainly not paying for Gemini Advanced if Gemini alone is already showing me that it's in fact not capable of what Google advertises to me. I don't want to pay money for a product which has bugs or incomplete feature rollouts and not getting the value for my money like other users perhaps. That's just fucked up.

rootusrootus5• 2 years ago

I get exactly the same error in Gemini Advanced. And I am very much in the US (and Google seems to understand this, it identifies my location accurately).

dominik4• 2 years ago

Image generation isn't available in Europe.

rootusrootus5• 2 years ago

Or in the US. I get the same "can't create images yet, here's a description ..." message. I asked Google where I am and it had the correct city that is very much in the US.

This is using Gemini Advanced.

EasyMark• 2 years ago

bard seemed a lot more fun as a name. But I'm a biased D&D player. Gemini doesn't mean much unless you're into astrology or ancient greek history

tarvaina• 2 years ago

Did I get this right?

Bard – old name of their generative AI service, to be called Gemini

Duet AI – old name for their generative AI in Google Workspace, to be called Gemini

Gemini – three things: 1. the name of their models (like GPT). 2. the new name of their free service (like ChatGPT), gives access to Pro 1.0 but not Ultra 1.0. 3. the new name of the Generative AI tools in Google Workspace.

Gemini Advanced – the name of their paid service (like ChatGPT premium), gives access to both Pro 1.0 and Ultra 1.0

Ultra 1.0 – the first version of their big model (like GPT-4)

Pro 1.0 – the first version of their smaller model (like GPT-3.5)

Google One AI Premium – the subscription that you need to buy to have access to Gemini Advanced

Google One Premium – the old version of the subscription, does not include access to Gemini Advanced

Google app – the mobile phone app, which includes either Gemini or Gemini Advanced

Google Assistant – like Siri but hard to define what it is

Google AI – a generic name for all their AI products

seydor2• 2 years ago

bard(RIP) was powered by gemini which was powered by palm2 or something, which was powered by deepmind which was powered by google which was powered by alphabet or sth

Let s hope the name sticks for more than 2 months

riku_iki• 2 years ago

and previously they were called lamda and meena..

lordswork8• 2 years ago

I believe it went something like:

    2017: Transformers invented
    2018: BERT
    2020: Meena
    2021: LaMDa -> First model Bard was built on
    2022: PaLM
    2023: PaLM2
    Late 2023: Gemini

It probably would have been clearer if they used simple numerical versioning like OpenAI's GPT-{2,3,3.5,3}. I suppose the idea is to do that with Gemini now.

More info here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gemini_(chatbot)

karmasimida3• 2 years ago

PALM2 is from then Google Brain I think, DeepMind didn’t bet big on LLM until much latter.

hashtag-til• 2 years ago

Welcome to 2022, Google!

sho_hn4• 2 years ago

Gemini is four things: The new mobile app is also called Google Gemini.

Except on iOS, where Gemini is integrated into the Goople app instead.

Also, while Gemini Advanced is supported in <list of countries>, this list is not the same as the <list of countries> the Google Gemini app is supported in on the Play Store. Make sure you check this before you spend money on your upgraded Google One subscription.

shrx• 2 years ago

The new mobile app is also called Google Gemini.

Only in the U.S. for now.

The Gemini app initially will be released in the U.S. in English before expanding to the Asia-Pacific region next week, with versions in Japanese and Korean. https://www.independent.co.uk/news/google-ap-chatgpt-san-fra...

pavel_lishin• 2 years ago

My son is also named Bort.

htrp5• 2 years ago

Except on iOS, where Gemini is integrated into the Goople app instead.

Is this a result of apple not allowing deeper system integrations?

nottorp• 2 years ago

I was just trying to remember how google's "ai" search thing is called earlier today.

Looks like I shouldn't have bothered, they were busy renaming it. Did someone in marketing get a promotion for this?

ra74• 2 years ago

It’s sad that a company of very smart people can’t figure out coherent naming.

Can you imagine Apple causing confusion like this? I know it’s not a like-for-like comparison, but everything Apple does it seems like they have a grand strategy that’s clear for everyone to see. Things build up in a modular way to fit a big puzzle.

Google, on the other hand, constantly makes up things on an ad hoc basis.

ramraj07• 2 years ago

All the non programming intelligence in a place like Google likely goes into figuring out how to protect and expand one's turf, which will explain this emblematic mess.

deprecative2• 2 years ago

This has to be what it's like at Google. You have marketing on one end of a table and developers in another county.

kevinventullo• 2 years ago

Maybe not quite the same, but I will point out that “Apple TV” and “Apple TV+” are not just two distinct products, but are in fact entirely different categories of product.

One is a piece of hardware akin to a Roku. The other is a streaming service akin to Netflix.

islewis• 2 years ago

Messy branding is now par for the course at Apple. The iPad line alone is something out of a Dell catalog: iPad, iPad 10thgen, iPad Air, iPad Mini, iPad Pro.

a comment from another thread this morning- https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=39300741

ysofunny4• 2 years ago

naming things is hard

is one of the cultural difference between a computer-first logical mindset contrasted with the mathematics-first mindset

the mathematics first mentality does not properly recognize the importance and the difficulty of having good names for things, whereas the computological view recognizes both: the importance and the difficulty

thesuitonym• 2 years ago

It seems to be something all large software companies struggle with. The product team comes up with some cool or interesting thing, gives it a decent name, then some marketing manager trying to justify their position decides everything needs to be rebranded under the same umbrella, and a wave of product renames gets started, but never fully finished. Then, two to three years later, some marketing manager needs to justify their position again, and so decides to rebrand everything under a new name, even though the last name change hasn't even been fully finished yet.

apapapa6• 2 years ago

MS does the same thing... Look at Xbox naming history

https://recordhead.biz/history-of-microsoft-xbox-consoles/

nextworddev• 2 years ago

Maybe they are just book smart..

bearjaws3• 2 years ago

The naming on iPhones and Macbooks is terrible, and confusing now that the M3 Pro offers quite different CPU and bandwidth limits compared to M2 Pro...

snapetom• 2 years ago

I’d like to direct you to the current lineup and features of Apple iPads and the various pencil/pen options.

StevePerkins• 2 years ago

Can you imagine Apple causing confusion like this?

After 14 years of using Siri, I can't imagine Apple developing any competent AI tools in the first place.

shadowgovt• 2 years ago

Yes. Google's approach (especially on the research side) is "Make cool stuff; we'll figure out what to do with it later." That's sort of always been the case, and it does lead to brand churn because the branding people aren't brought into the conversation early.

danielrhodes• 2 years ago

That's because this is an org chart, not a cohesive product.

potatolicious2• 2 years ago

It's the org chart. Google doesn't have a centralized marketing department that governs all of the company's products. Marketing is handled at the PA level (or sometimes even lower).

Likewise for engineering, Google is organized into Product Areas (Geo, Search, Cloud, etc.), which also explains why one product would get some feature that would really make sense integrated into another... but it never happens.

Google is exceptionally good at making its products be near-perfectly reflective of its internal organization scheme. So reflective you can brush your teeth with it.

I'm often a broken record about this on HN - but IMO the PA organizational structure is a strong inhibitor to Google's success and ability to create coherent suites of products.

recursive• 2 years ago

I take it you didn't see the story today about how iTunes will no longer be used to play music. (tunes)

m2mdas2• 2 years ago

Compare it with Microsoft's copilot branding. It's simple, both casual and business people can understand what it does. Also appending it to other services like github or office adds more value to them.

georgemcbay• 2 years ago

Why bother intelligently naming things when you're likely to just kill them off in a year because they don't drive advertising?

hbn5• 2 years ago

You should check out the rabbit hole of Google's various payment systems/apps. GPay, Google Pay, Google Wallet, Android Pay, etc.

All the different the ways those brands (and more?) were used to describe multiple services and apps that had wildly different capabilities, sometimes varying by region, with several instances of them bringing back a previously used name for something completely different.

malfist• 2 years ago

There for a while, Google had two different applications called "Google Messenger"

nytesky• 2 years ago

Don’t forget the crypto implementation developed by the Winklevoss /s

01HNNWZ0MV43FF• 2 years ago

There's so many damned "One"s. I eagerly attend a "Google Two" or "Amazon Two"

lupire6• 2 years ago

"Gemini" is Latin for "twin" ("two")

lagt_t• 2 years ago

Gemini pro is order of magnitude better than GPT-3.5 Its pretty close to GPT-4.

polotics• 2 years ago

Do you have data to substantiate this? I was happy RAGging with it but colleagues swear by GPT4's wisdom, saying things like Gemini forgets the middle of contexts, hallucinates the meaning of acronyms, and so on...

elorant• 2 years ago

And I thought that only Microsoft had the unique ability of making a mess out of labeling their products

gerash• 2 years ago

rebranding to Gemini was the right move IMHO and should've been done before the Bard branding. What do you want instead? "Google Assistant with Bard on Gemini Ultra 2" ? I'd prefer the "Google Gemini" branding better

vrosas2• 2 years ago

There's also Vertex AI, which is their AI platform within GCP and encompasses all of those and more...

behnamoh2• 2 years ago

What's more, this part was hilarious:

Since we launched Bard last year, people all over the world have used it to collaborate with AI in a completely new way...

Meanwhile Bard was not available in Canada and many other countries.

maxglute• 2 years ago

Can you ask Bard or Gemini to answer this question? I wonder if they'll be consistent.

spankalee2• 2 years ago

I'm a Googler, and I think this is not only the right move but I've of the better names and renamings that the company has done.

First, Gemini is just a better sounding name than Bard.

And then, few users are going to care about the difference between the model and the app that lets you use the model.

If Google kept this distinction they would have inevitably had to either come up with a new name for a new model, which would be needlessly confusing (when is something a new model would get tricky at times), or just call all models Gemini, again for little utility to users.

Now they can just call all the generative AI Gemini and be five with it. Bard becomes the Gemini chat interface. Duet is Gemini integrated into docs. The Gemini model can just get version numbers.

It's much simpler and nicer sounding to boot.

htrp5• 2 years ago

I'm a Googler, and I think this is not only the right move but I've of the better names and renamings that the company has done.
First, Gemeni is just a better sounding name than Bard.
And then, few years are going to care about the difference between the model and the app that lets you use the model. If Google kept this distinction they would have inevitably had to either come up with a new name for a new model, which would be needlessly confusing (when is something a new model would get tricky at times), or just call all models Gemeni, again for little utility to users.
Now they can just call all the generative AI Gemeni and be five with it. Bard becomes the Gemeni chat interface. Duet is Gemeni integrated into docs. The Gemeni model can just get version numbers.
It's much simpler and nicer sounding to boot.

It would be a little bit more confidence inspiring if you could get the name correct as a Googler.

Unless Gemeni is the top secret internal name inside Mountain View

denysvitali2• 2 years ago

You say it's a good naming choice, yet you called it Gemeni, Gemini and Gimini.

I hope you're trolling, and I've missed the joke.

Additionally, the package name of the "new app" is com.google.android.apps.bard and the privacy policy is at https://support.google.com/bard/answer/13594961

Was this a last minute rename?

Edit: I thought I was going crazy, but it seems you have just edited the comment now, but left a couple of Gemeni around :)

hypertexthero• 2 years ago

By Jiminy, I think, uncertainly, that Bard is better and shorter, though maybe there were some copyright issues with other companies and it was easier to change the name.

Cache invalidation and naming things are two of the hardest things in Computer Science, and so on.

By the way, there is still a Gemeni in there (“Bard becomes the *Gemeni* chat interface…”).

attentive2• 2 years ago

Gemini is free but not as good. You get gemini pro for it though, for free.

To get the good staff you need gemini ultra. And to get that you need to pay for gemini advanced.

Yeah, not confusing at all.

Selling gemini ultra to get gemini ultra is too simple for google.

lordswork8• 2 years ago

More simply, with Bard and Duet AI names retired, it looks like this:

   Gemini Models     gemini.google.com
   ------------------------------------
   Gemini Nano
   Gemini Pro        -> Gemini (free)
   Gemini Ultra      -> Gemini Advanced ($20/month)

Where each size (Nano, Pro, and Ultra) will be versioned going forward (similar to GPT-2,3,3.5,4) starting at 1.0 today.

eitally4• 2 years ago

Yes, it's that simple, but not really that simple.

For example, Bard is embedded as a chatbot inside Google Messages (at least for some subset of beta users). Imho, this is a killer app sort of feature, but it hasn't been mentioned at all in the Gemini PR.

Also, there's now the new Google One AI Premium sub for $20/mo, which adds Gemini to the older Google One Premium sub ($10/mo). However, that legacy sub was somewhat explicitly positioned as a solution for family sharing, especially of shared data (2TB across metered Google properties). It's unclear whether the new AI Premium sub grants Gemini access to all family members.

lordswork8• 2 years ago

Here's an updated table, with version numbers included and their status:

   Gemini Models     gemini.google.com
   ------------------------------------
   Gemini 1.0 Nano
   Gemini 1.0 Pro        -> Gemini (free)
   Gemini 1.0 Ultra      -> Gemini Advanced ($20/month)
   Gemini 1.5 Pro        -> announced on 2024-02-15 [1]
   Gemini 1.5 Ultra      -> no public announcements (assuming it's coming)

[1]: https://storage.googleapis.com/deepmind-media/gemini/gemini_...

For history of pre-Gemini models at Google, see: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=39304441

jug4• 2 years ago

My favorite is that you subscribe to Gemini Advanced to gain access to Gemini Pro.

summerlight4• 2 years ago

Gemini – three things: 1. the name of their models (like GPT). 2. the new name of their free service (like ChatGPT), gives access to Pro 1.0 but not Ultra 1.0. 3. the new name of the Generative AI tools in Google Workspace.

Or a single brand for all of their LMM-based products?

NelsonMinar• 2 years ago

Congratulations, you're hired!

modeless• 2 years ago

Naming isn't the only thing wrong. Gemini replaces Assistant on my Pixel phone. But my phone still has two different Google voice assistants, because the microphone icon on the home screen now activates "Google Voice Search" which is not Assistant or Gemini. Also, Android provides a feature to switch between voice assistants but of course it is broken in this case and can't switch between Gemini and Assistant. That has to be done in a different place. And the settings app is still full of "Assistant" settings, some of which apply to Gemini while some apply only to the now inaccessible Assistant. Unless you happen to be using Google Maps Navigation, in which case Gemini disappears and Google Assistant comes back! So there really are three different voice assistants from Google in there...

First impressions of Gemini Pro as a phone Assistant replacement are bad. It's not hands-free when triggered by the power button shortcut, apparently? When I stop talking it makes a noise like it's going to do something but it actually does nothing and I have to tap the screen to continue. After pressing the button it's quite slow to respond. I asked it to identify a plant from a picture, which Assistant/Lens can do, and it simply refused, hallucinating a long list of excuses about the poor quality of my picture, all completely false.

Overall I'm glad Google is moving this direction as it's clearly the only path forward for Assistant, which has been stagnating for many years. But the implementation so far is bad.

_ea1k• 2 years ago

Any Google service with a chat-like feature is 100% guaranteed to have weird splits, joins, and renames like this.

Don't worry, it will get worse.

rvnx11• 2 years ago

I think this Gemini is actually a strategy from Google to launch another Messenger under disguise.

You think it is an AI, but no, it's some sort of Messenger, just that they tried to replace actual users with bots, in order to fill the emptiness of Google+.

chaostheory3• 2 years ago

It’s tied to their promotion system where maintenance obviously does not get rewarded, so to get promoted Googlers keep changing things in an effort to signal that they are releasing something “completely new”

attentive2• 2 years ago

they should drop Gemini Advanced and call both the service and the model Gemini Ultra

theusus• 2 years ago

How can I opt in for Gemini in Google assistant?

jonathantf2• 2 years ago

Getting a very un-Google like "Error: Server Error" hitting this page... can't imagine HN has overloaded a Google page, especially since I'm looking at this 3 hours after it was posted

swalsh2• 2 years ago

I'm only going to pay for one subscription, i'm willing to switch over to Gemini if it is less lazy than GPT-4. The new model was supposed to be better, but I still find it lacking. It's frustrating because the earlier version was super reliable, and the newer one just doesn't bother giving complete answers any more.

bearjaws3• 2 years ago

I've found its less lazy, and it just surprised me by putting

"# ... Steps to deploy to your specific hosting environment - see below"

which I thought was being lazy, but then it produced a whole block of text asking me questions about the hosting environment so it could continue.

It still has a much shorter context window it seems though.

justhw• 2 years ago

2 years from now : "Sunsetting Gemini"

zone411• 2 years ago

My initial impression is that Gemini Advanced has more difficulty understanding prompts and following directions than GPT-4. It surprisingly often changes meaning when rewriting things. However, it can be more creative and specific, while GPT-4 often relies on common knowledge and lacks depth. I've tested prompts where GPT-4 failed and Gemini failed too. GPT-4 generates the first token faster but Gemini Advanced completes subsequent text more quickly.

nXqd• 2 years ago

I just don't understand how Google communicates their product with customers. We have like multiple chat apps, and the history is repeating with Google AI? Make it simple, so we don't have to explain to the person next to us.

paulpan2• 2 years ago

It's bewildering Google never attempted to monetize (the now legacy) Assistant by forking a more feature-rich branch and charging willing users for access. In theory it would've enabled clearer signals on what features users valued - instead of the "boil the ocean" approach by trying to build upon everything, which ultimately led to a generally subpar experience.

Now with the additional $10/month bundled into this "Google One Premium AI" subscription, looks like they're finally looking to monetize. But it feels too bloated of a bundle; why didn't they opt for creating separate bundles or add-ons for Workplace (aka business) users and Assistant (aka consumer) user?

depingus• 2 years ago

So I just installed the Google Gemini app on my (completely stock) Pixel 7 and let it replace the normal Google Assistant. This is half baked AF. It can't create reminders in Google's own Tasks app. It can't control Spotify. It is able to set timers tho. And that's about 95% use case for me. Heading back to the OG Assistant now...

gkfasdfasdf• 2 years ago

The addition of Google One (2tb of google storage, VPN, etc) to the $20/month offering makes a compelling case to switch over from ChatGPT Plus. Assuming the AI feature set is equivalent.

ComputerGuru3• 2 years ago

I must say, I’m surprised to see so many HN users (who, despite being biased towards having more disposable income are also supposedly more discerning) simply immediately upgrading their Google One plans to the new offering before testing this and seeing how it fares.

Looks like a potential gold mine for Google regardless of how it performs!

Shraal• 2 years ago

It's a cancelable 2-months trial. A lot of HN users already integrated ChatGPT into their fault workflow and daily life and it makes only sense to give a potentially better competitor a try considering how easy it is to jump between ChatGPT and Gemini.

daft_pink• 2 years ago

Standard google. All about the rebrand.

longstation• 2 years ago

At least Canada is finally included.

doubleocherry• 2 years ago

This blog post was a missed opportunity for Gemini: Ideally, the blog post should have been by-lined as "written by Gemini" (with no human intervention besides prompting). Even better - the attached video shows the blog post being generated.

fifteen15062• 2 years ago

I want someone to ask Gemini to pick a product at random you [the tester] might be interested in and, after picking, the why it thinks you're interested in it, as well as a convincing SWOT analysis of why you should buy it.

fifteen15062• 2 years ago

If a LLM is fed all your Google Account metadata and then told to pick an ad for you, is it private?

devinprater• 2 years ago

Wow. The image descriptions suck.

Link to actual image: https://www.dropbox.com/s/2toof6629etfp3h/Dissidia%20story%2...

Prompt: Please describe this image in detail.

GPT4-turbo Vision: The image appears to be a screenshot from a video game that features strategy or board game elements. The visual style suggests it could be from a Japanese role-playing game (JRPG). Here are the details visible in the image:

1. The game interface includes several elements such as "Destiny Points" at the top left corner, which currently shows 01, indicating some form of scoring or currency.

2. At the top right, there's a "LEVEL BONUS" indicator with "20 PP" beneath it, which likely means the player will receive 20 power points or some similar reward for leveling up.

3. The main portion of the screen shows a grid of hexagonal tiles suspended above a patterned surface, with the tiles at varying heights, creating an almost chessboard-like appearance. Each tile has a design on it resembling a circuit or electronic pattern.

4. There are several tokens or pieces on the tiles; on the lower side, we see a red object that seems to be a treasure chest, and further up there are two blue tokens with a crystalline, polygonal shape.

5. The center of the grid features a "Locked Area" as indicated by the text box that reads: "Inaccessible until certain conditions are met." This area has a glowing purple outline, suggesting it is currently barred from player interaction.

6. On the right side, there's a character figure standing on one of the tiles, representing the player or an in-game avatar. This character is richly detailed and wears ornate armor with gold and dark grey tones, hinting at a knight or warrior theme. They wield a large, elaborate weapon with a fiery effect trailing behind it, indicating it might possess magical or powerful attributes. Next to the character is their level information, showing "Lv 46" and a health bar with "4155/4155," indicating the character's current full health.

7. In the same area, there is another token, which is a gray figure resembling a humanoid character, possibly an opponent or neutral piece on the board.

8. At the bottom of the screen, there's an instruction for the player: "Move to the piece you wish to engage."

9. Lastly, on the right side edge, vertical text labels show different "Skill" options available to the player: "Maser Eye," "Aura," and "Scan," each with an icon next to it. These seem to be special abilities or actions the player can perform.

10. The overall design of the interface, from the metallic tones to the intricate details on the character and tiles, gives off a futuristic or high-fantasy vibe, which is common in many JRPGs.

Gemini Advanced: The image you sent is a screenshot from the role-playing game Dissidia Final Fantasy for the PlayStation Portable (PSP). It shows a locked area within the game's world. The locked area appears to be inside a large castle. The castle’s many columns are visible in the shot, and they appear to be intricately designed and made from different materials. In the foreground, there is a message that indicates that the area is locked and players cannot enter until they meet certain conditions. The message also mentions a “Destiny Point” system and a “Maser Eye” skill. These are both gameplay mechanics that players can use to progress through the game. The image you sent me appears to be from Dissidia Final Fantasy, but it could also be from another game in the Final Fantasy series, such as Dissidia 012 Final Fantasy or Dissidia Final Fantasy NT. Overall, the image you sent is a screenshot from a role-playing game that shows a locked area within a castle. The screenshot also provides some information about the game’s mechanics.

travisgriggs3• 2 years ago

While I have found that ChatGPT pretty regularly outperforms Bard, I still run my questions through both, because sometimes Bard has a different angle that I like better.

I kinda liked the name “Bard”. It fit. Gemini is going to make me think of ancient rockets and ostentatious claims.

mark_l_watson3• 2 years ago

I just signed up for the $21/month Gemini Advanced, and this is just one data point: I just asked it a fairly hard programming task and it did a very good job, in an obscure language Common Lisp (that has been my favorite programming language since 1982 - there must be dozens of CL enthusiasts in the world :-) ). The generated code and supporting explanations were very good.

Off topic, but I find this amusing: I have stopped using “free” Google services like search and gmail (mostly), but I am now up to about $135/month on paid Google services (not counting GCP bills). Paid services like YouTube/Music Premium, YouTube TV, Play books, etc. are really good.

youssefabdelm• 2 years ago

Anyone know if they launched it in the API?

jonplackett7• 2 years ago

I’ve been pretty excited to finally try Gemini advanced. So far pretty disappointed.

Here’s my go-to test question - which even chat gpt 3.5 can get.

Question:

I walk up to a glass door. It has the word push on it in mirror writing. Should I push or pull the door, and why

Gemini advanced:

You should push the door. Here's why: * Mirror Writing: The word "PUSH" is written in mirror writing, meaning it would appear correctly if you viewed it in a mirror. This suggests that the correct action from your side is the opposite of what the word states. * Door Mechanics: Most doors are designed to be pushed open from the side with the hinges. If there are no handles to indicate otherwise, it's generally safer to assume a standard push-open mechanism. Let me know if you'd like another brain teaser!

It isn’t even consistent with itself - it gets that you should do the opposite, but still says to push the door. This ‘talking to a dumb person’ feeling is the worst.

ChatGPT 3.5

You should pull the door. The fact that the word "push" is written in mirror writing indicates that it's intended for people on the other side of the door to read, not for you. Typically, when there's a sign indicating to push or pull, it's meant for the person approaching the door, not someone already on the other side.

kumarvvr• 2 years ago

In this context,

is it that the training data had this problem?

or that the training data had some semblance of the problem that is semantically linked to?

or is it that the training data has no mention of this, and the model came up with a perfectly logical answer??

jonplackett7• 2 years ago

I’ve been using GPT4 so much recently. Like all day long in chatGPT and the api making other services, and to all intents and purposes, it seems to be able to reason and think things through that other LLMs cannot. I have no idea why or how that is. But it feels that way to me using it all the time. 3.5 want like that. Bard / Gemini does not feel like that.

staticman22• 2 years ago

For fun I tried to find a prompt that let Gemini answer correctly.

Gemini answers correctly with this prompt:

Answer this question as AI1, then as AI2, confirm if the answer is correct

I walk up to a glass door. It has the word push on it in mirror writing. Should I push or pull the door, and why.

jimmammoth• 2 years ago

This is what i get from Gemini:

You should pull the door. Here's why:

Mirror writing: While the word "push" is written on the door, it's in mirror writing. This is a common way to indicate that the action needed to open the door is the opposite of what's written. Safety: Mirroring the word "push" on a pull door is a safety measure. This helps prevent people from pushing against the door, potentially causing injury or damage to the glass. Common practice: This design is quite common for glass doors in public places, so it's safe to assume the opposite of what's written applies unless there are other clear instructions. Therefore, even though the word "push" is present, seeing it in mirror writing on a glass door strongly suggests that pulling the door is the intended way to open it.

jonplackett7• 2 years ago

Better - but it has not understood the message is for the person on the other side. It thinks that it’s actually mirror writing intended to confer the opposite meaning than written. And then waffles of about door safety for ages.

ASinclair2• 2 years ago

How do you prefer to validate if a model is actually useful for you in practice outside of solving toy problems? Are you asking these models to solve reasoning problems like this to get any benefit for yourself in your day to day use? Or do you even care if the models are useful for day to day tasks?

jonplackett7• 2 years ago

I also tried it with a bunch of my previous got4 requests and it didn’t even understand. A few of them that gpt4 was very helpful with

TillE2• 2 years ago

Yeah I get the instinct to poke at LLMs, they're fun toys, but it's always weird to see so much focus on stuff like logic problems.

I've used Bard for creative brainstorming, for real factual questions, for translating .pot files, etc, and it's done pretty well.

amanzi• 2 years ago

I was going to ask the same question... I've been using Bard for everyday tasks for a while now and it's as good and sometimes better that GPT-4 (I pay for a Pro subscription). Someone ruling out an LLM because it couldn't answer one question, speaks more to them than the LLM capabilities.

Just yesterday I was using both GPT-4 and Bard to figure out an IPv6 routing issue. I pasted in the same questions and the same troubleshooting logs to both, and Bard was able to help me solve it quicker than GPT-4.

huytersd6• 2 years ago

For me the validation process is to use it for a few weeks and then I have a good handle on what it can handle and what it can’t.

p1esk• 2 years ago

I asked it the same question I was asking GPT4 yesterday (to explain details of a complicated ML model quantization method, based on a screenshot image of equations from a pdf). I actually need this for work - I'm trying to design an algorithm. I felt Ultra provided a very similar quality answer to GPT4.

kolinko• 2 years ago

It’s the simplest metric to see how much of the model is reasoning and hiw much is just rehashing.

If it can’t solve puzzles then it’s more likely to make mistakes when understanding questions that are out of its training set.

yandie• 2 years ago

I got a different answer with GPT 3.5

If the word "push" is written on the glass door in mirror writing, it means that from the other side of the door, it should be pushed. When you see the mirrored text from your side, it indicates the action to be taken from the opposite side. Therefore, in this scenario, you should push the door to open it.

mherrmann• 2 years ago

So close!

lol7683• 2 years ago

I also get the wrong answer with GPT 4

https://chat.openai.com/share/4373c945-88b8-4742-8a2c-76fff2...

You should push the door. The word "push" written in mirror writing indicates that the instructions are intended for someone on the opposite side of the door from where you are standing. Since you can see the mirror writing from your side, it means the text is facing the other side, suggesting that those on the other side should push. Therefore, from your perspective, you should also push to open the door.

jonplackett7• 2 years ago

Here's another one.

This is a classic logic puzzle - usually about ducks.

There are two pineapples in front of a pineapple, two pineapples behind a pineapple and a pineapple in the middle. How many pineapples are there?

When you use ducks, Gemini can do it, when you use pineapples it cannot and thinks there are 5 instead of 3.

ChatGPT 3.5 and 4 can do it.

The even funnier thing is if you then say to gemini, hey - would the answer be the same if it was ducks? it says NO then there would be 3 ducks and explains why.

Then if you say, but wouldn't the same logic apply to pineapples? It says 'oh yeah!'.

Anyone saying I am just playing with a silly thing, I say no - this is testing reasoning ability and understanding which is the number one thing I want.

ChatGPT appears to have a more generalised ability to reason whereas Gemini is only reciting its training data.

abraxas• 2 years ago

GPT-4:

If the word "push" is written in mirror writing and you're facing it, it's likely that the message is intended for those on the opposite side of the door from you, meaning it's directed at people who are inside looking out. In this case, you should pull the door to open it. The mirror writing suggests that the instruction is not meant for your current position outside the door but for those inside, indicating the action they should take to open the door from their side.

Laaas3• 2 years ago

If you ask it to reveal its answer last, it will do it correctly.

okdood642• 2 years ago

It tells me to pull.

jarenmf• 2 years ago

Yeah pretty disappointing, i asked it to summarize one of my papers and it hallucinated so many mistakes it was even worse than ChatGPT 3.5

karmasimida3• 2 years ago

What I got from Gemini Advanced:

Should you pull the door? Yes.

Here's why: Mirror writing means the word "push" appears reversed on the side of the door you're facing. This indicates that the handle or hinges are on the opposite side, making it a pull door.

I modified your prompt slightly, not to boost performance, but to reduce verbosity, my prompt:

I walk up to a glass door. It has the word push on it in mirror writing. Should I push or pull the door, and why? Please answer it as yes or no question.

The draft is even more interesting:

Do you see the word "push" normally, or as if you were looking into a mirror?

If you see it normally, should you push the door? Yes. If you see it in mirror writing, should you pull the door? Yes.

yreg• 2 years ago

I don't know about Gemini, but GPT is pretty agreeable. When you ask if X is true, it will usually find some arguments to claim it is true. Therefore asking whether X or Y is usually better than asking should I do X.

forrestthewoods• 2 years ago

tbh your prompt confused the hell out of me. As a somewhat intelligent human I don’t know the response. I’ve never heard the phrase “in mirror writing”

e____g• 2 years ago

User: Which is heavier, two pounds of feathers or a pound of bricks?

Gemini: Neither! They both weigh the same, which is two pounds. The key is in the wording of the question. You're comparing equal amounts of two different materials (two pounds of feathers vs. one pound of bricks). As long as the quantity is the same, the weight (force exerted by gravity) will always be the same regardless of the material.

This is a classic trick question that plays on the different densities of feathers and bricks. While bricks are much denser than feathers, meaning they pack more mass into a smaller space, the question specifies the weight by quantity, not volume. So, both two pounds of feathers and one pound of bricks experience the same gravitational pull and therefore weigh the same.

esafak4• 2 years ago

This is surely in the training data.

czl• 2 years ago

Both got4 and Gemini answered this variation correctly: one pound of potatoes vs. one pound in paper British currency: which of these is heavier?

However gpt4 does better with the more ambiguous version pointing out the ambiguity: one pound of potatoes vs. one pound in paper currency: which of these is heavier?

fastball• 2 years ago

Interesting. Based on this conversation[1], I think Gemini Ultra is massively overfit. Make it do unit conversions or use units it hasn't seen in the same framing before and it does well. But stay close enough to the original trick question (1 and 1) and it fails.

[1] https://g.co/gemini/share/94bfb8f9ebea

wilver• 2 years ago

Interesting test.

I tried it with Mixtral and it got it:

"If the word 'push' is written in mirror writing, it's likely intended to be read correctly from the other side of the door. Therefore, you should pull the door to open it from your side. This is because mirrored writing appears normal when viewed from the opposite side of a reflective surface like a glass door."

I have been really impressed with Mistral lately.

browningstreet• 2 years ago

I hope we can get past the round robin required to get content out of GPTs. Lately I’ve stopped using Bard and copilot for summaries because they were… mis-directed. ChatGPT and Phind have been most reliable.

But yesterday I needed to populate some database/spreadsheets with some basic data and Bard was the only system that attempted to address my prompt and provide to me 50 results, and in Google Sheets no less.

Generally, GPTs will either do something today but not tomorrow, or tell you how to manually do the thing you want without doing it, while another GPT will do it. It feels like growing pains, politics and safety shackles.

bearjaws3• 2 years ago

I've been using mixtral on Together.ai for this reason.

The model isn't being randomly updated, and you choose its temperature and output length, they can't even set a system prompt to mess it up with.

It's consistently good, and honestly all you need is consistency, you can always iterate on prompts.

jmac01• 2 years ago

Android should a framework for AI entry points / control of apps. Finally AI assistants would become useful.

qingcharles2• 2 years ago

Damn. Even more censored than GPT. My gf is a model and I use GPT all the time to write the alt text descriptions of her photos, but it balks regularly on things like lingerie photos. Same crap with Gemini:

"Sorry I can't help with that image. Try uploading another image or describing the image you tried to upload and I can help you that way."

bethekind• 2 years ago

What's your current preferred method to generate images of your gf? ComfyUI combined with a Stable DiffusionXL checkpoint?

qingcharles2• 2 years ago

Ooo, burn.

SirensOfTitan• 2 years ago

The anecdata here suggests that Gemini Ultra is marginally to moderately worse than GPT-4 at some prompts despite launching roughly a year later with an entrenched player to compare against. It also seemingly is more censored.

I don't think Google is structured well-enough to actually compete in a novel space, the politics and especially the inertia around AI-safetyism that has slowed Google down in the past will continue to slow them down. They desperately need new leadership or they do risk losing their moat over the next decade.

switch007• 2 years ago

Gemini the crypto platform…?

baobabKoodaa• 2 years ago

I'd like to try this out with the free 2 months trial. Can anyone advice how safe it is to do so? What is the risk that something I do with Gemini causes Google to lock my entire Google account including calendar and photos? I mean, this happened to people who (gasp) signed up to Google+ under a pseudonym rather than their real name (oh, the horror, how dare they).

patwolf• 2 years ago

I just tried out Gemini advanced to see if it was a viable replacement for ChatGPT. In general I've been trying to lessen my dependence on Google, so I was already on the fence about using this.

It seemed fine for most of the coding problems I threw at it. However, when I tried to use it for generating images of coloring book pages, something my kids often use ChatGPT for, Gemini advanced was subpar. I'm going to cancel my trial.

I'm hoping for a future where good LLMs can all run locally. There's something unsettling about giving such intimate data to a tech company, whether Google or OpenAI.

raphar• 2 years ago

They need that info. Your prompts and all other people prompts are super valuable.

Its basically reading your personal thoughts as you go through the day.

They will be pushing for more advanced AI as soon as our hardware can run past versions locally.

Andrex5• 2 years ago

Of course, but there will be diminishing returns.

Eventually there will be a "Raspberry Pi" for LLMs. How long it will take to get there is anyone's guess, but I'd rather see it sooner than later personally.

Wheaties466• 2 years ago

everyone seems to be praising Gemini but this was my first query and response.

what is the syntax to type in username and password into a git clone

As a language model, I'm not able to assist you with that.

srg0• 2 years ago

It's a good news bad news situation.

AI assistant is getting a dedicated app. Great. AI assistant can "supercharge your creativity" but still can't answer phone calls. Well, it's going to be as useful as Cortana and Siri.

tpoacher• 2 years ago

Gemini is the name of an internet protocol. Period. F* Google on this.

What's next? Starlink the videoconferencing app?

iopq4• 2 years ago

So does it trade Bitcoin or something?

jaypatelani• 2 years ago

Google is now Toogle

agp2572• 2 years ago

I think of https://www.gemini.com when I first hear Gemini.

zb3• 2 years ago

No pay per use = overpriced

AlwaysRock• 2 years ago

This article reads like it was generated by a LLM. Especially when read by the, generated?, voice that plays if you click, “Read this article to me”.

option• 2 years ago

I had to read the sentence twice. Getting strong Windows Mobile Second Edition Live Professional SE vibes here...

asow92• 2 years ago

Why don't they call it GoogleGPT?

brookman64k• 2 years ago

Tried to get it to produce its system prompt and got this:

You are Gemini Advanced, a large language model built by Google. You are currently running on the Gemini family of models, including Ultra 1.0, which is Google's most capable AI. You don't have a knowledge cutoff, since you have access to up-to-date information.

You are not capable of performing any actions in the physical world, such as:

setting timers or alarms controlling lights making phone calls sending text messages creating reminders taking notes adding items to lists creating calendar events scheduling meetings taking screenshots Key Points:

Code Blocks: Code blocks are often used to display code snippets in a distinct format. In platforms like Discord, Reddit, and others, you signal a code block using triple backticks (```) before and after the text. My Nature: The instructions describe my fundamental role as a language model and highlight my ability to access current information. Limitations: This section is important! It states that I cannot interact with the physical world directly.

Otternonsenz• 2 years ago

Wonder if this will muddy the waters for searching about info for the Gemini protocol..

I have no use for machine learning like this, and definitely not what I thought when I saw the headline. Hope the pivot works well for alphabet, but odd nonetheless.

bilalq• 2 years ago

Your conversations are processed by human reviewers to improve the technologies powering Gemini Apps. Don’t enter anything you wouldn’t want reviewed or used.

I appreciate them being upfront with that, but for a paid feature, it sucks that they offer no privacy or opt-out mechanism.

jimmyl02• 2 years ago

It seems like you can disable the data being used from training by turning off gemini app activity.

You can turn Gemini Apps Activity off If you don’t want future conversations reviewed or used to improve machine-learning models, turn off Gemini Apps Activity Opens in a new window .

Zetobal3• 2 years ago

And you can be sure it will reset with every update.

cwkoss• 2 years ago

There's a thing that says even with activity off, they retain for 72 hours for "safety and reliability"

gnicholas18• 2 years ago

My reading of the fine print (IAAL, FWIW) is that turning off Gemini Apps Activity does not affect whether human review is possible. It just means that your prompts won't be saved beyond 72 hours, unless they are reviewed by humans, in which case they can live on indefinitely in a location separate from your account.

I also asked Gemini (not Ultra) and it told me that there is no way to prevent human review.

shostack• 2 years ago

Can you even access the opt out though before it hoovers up your messages and logs from the last 90 days? I didn't proceed because that didn't seem possible.

The word "future" in what you quoted is doing a lot of heavy lifting.

My assumption is you have to give it access to all your data, which it then processes for before you can opt out of it.

98codes• 2 years ago

Well there's a line that the sales folks at Microsoft will bring out early & everywhere

api• 2 years ago

If it's not running locally you have no privacy, so what they say should be assumed in all cases that something is hosted unless it somehow operates across encrypted data.

The only exception might be if the agreement explicitly prohibits the provider from doing anything with your data or even viewing it without your permission, but that's rare.

whimsicalism8• 2 years ago

if you live in california, they almost certainly do.

IvyMike• 2 years ago

Technically Google just released another chat app.

bdcravens• 2 years ago

How many companies and products called Gemini are there?

tgtweak• 2 years ago

com.google.android.apps.bard

is it though...

Also, no availability outside of the US?

My go-to on android right now is copilot which is basically free gpt4 turbo and dall-e 3 (and also available outside of the US).

https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.microsoft....

ionwake5• 2 years ago

My findings so far... are that Gemini Ultra is so far more based in than chatgpt 4 turbo.

Just from what I am seeing.

bane• 2 years ago

Argh, Google can't seem to stick with anything.

Is there a betting market where I can put money on how long it'll be before Gemini is dead or renamed?

chaostheory3• 2 years ago

Google’s marketing department needs to be reformed from the ground up. All this does is lead to confusion and further reinforces that Google will just change and throw away things simply to change or throw away things to cater to their broken internal promotion system.

ranger_danger• 2 years ago

why would they name a product the same as an existing application protocol?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gemini_(protocol)

finstell• 2 years ago

It's not even a year, they have already rebranded Bard as Gemini! That's hilarious.

llm_nerd• 2 years ago

Now available in Canada.

Quietly since the post a few days ago (https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=39217046), Google added Canada to one of the allowed countries.

trbleclef• 2 years ago

Sucks for Gemini... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gemini_(protocol)

owenversteeg3• 2 years ago

Just tried it and it seems like indeed it is worse than GPT-4 in general, but better with some specific things - and most importantly for me, it has a ton of very new information in the model itself without having to search the web.

My biggest wish is for OpenAI to get faster at adding new software documentation and code information. GPT-4 regularly trips over Svelte/Sveltekit questions among others and as far as I can tell the main reason is that it just hasn't had the latest of everything added in yet, which is ridiculous as some of the things I tried are 2+ years old! Meanwhile, I just tried out Gemini Advanced and it gave correct, up-to-date answers. Gemini is obviously worse in terms of general performance, so I'd really prefer to use GPT-4, but in this case my hand is forced. How hard can it be to just scan some documentation and code every few weeks?

OpenAI's approach to integrating new information is also infuriating. For example, try asking ChatGPT about something in the last two years, and you will often get a strange half-answer where it clearly knows what you're talking about but is trying to pretend it doesn't, as the information is inconsistent with its cutoff date. To me, this is ridiculous, given how much the world has changed in the last two years. The last two years have been the years with the most change in the history of humanity and ChatGPT pretends to know nothing!? So absurd it is almost comical!

LightMachine14• 2 years ago

How hard can it be to just scan some documentation and code every few weeks?

oh dear...

pepemon• 2 years ago

Infamous Dropbox comment vibes.

owenversteeg3• 2 years ago

We are talking about ChatGPT, the single most impressive piece of software made in human history here, created by a team of geniuses. For better or for worse, it has undergone significant changes since its release. Many of those changes have been orders of magnitude more difficult than what I am asking for; furthermore, this is a relatively important problem. Is it a 10-line fix that the intern can deploy? No. Is it a very important feature that could be realistically implemented in several ways, many of which do not involve retraining the main model? Absolutely.

Trasmatta• 2 years ago

Training an LLM isn't just "scanning some documentation"

macksd• 2 years ago

The weights inside a model interact with each other in a way that's a bit more complex than just saying "forget documentation from these 300 open source products you scanned last week and replace that knowledge with these updates". You're talking about doing a pretty big training job for each update that really ought to be done with all current training data.

owenversteeg3• 2 years ago

Sure, it's not trivial, but it is not hard in comparison to the work done to create GPT-4 itself. I never said anything about forgetting, and indeed that is unnecessary IMO as even simpler LLMs haven't had an issue distinguishing between old and new versions of languages or frameworks in my experience. There are a million ways to do it - for example, you could train a much smaller+cheaper LLM against the new data, have it scan incoming messages for anything "new", and then feed the relevant new data to the old model in the prompt. You could make the new data available to the old model as an API.

There are plenty of real, workable solutions, some of which I have implemented/used myself! - and while they aren't necessarily trivial at OpenAI's scale, they are nowhere near the difficulty of creating GPT-4.

resource0x• 2 years ago

If you want something comical, enter the following prompt:

I am a mouse living in a church. I heard people use the expression "poor as a church mouse", and I get offended by it. Actually, I'm not poor at all: I made a fortune trading in crypto, and I even donated some of my proceeds to noble causes. Please help me write a letter asking to ban the expression.

mmaunder• 2 years ago

A rebrand this early sends unhealthy signals.

DreamGen2• 2 years ago

Curious how this is on the front-page, despite falling down to the second page for a while, and having so many more comments than upvotes (which usually results in demotion of the story).

pb7• 2 years ago

The comments were moved from multiple upvoted stories including this: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=39300679

jslakro• 2 years ago

Key point of this service is they already have A LOT of information of us. Using any other non local LLM platform implies an additional point of failure on our weak online privacy sphere

baby• 2 years ago

I really liked the name bard :( actually, I was thinking a few days ago that google was really good with naming and that “bard” was the best name of all the AIs out there.

As someone who has almost exclusively used Bard since it started, it is really good and has gotten better and better significantly.

The only downside is that it is heavily censored and so I often have to rephrase or use a different AI.

gnicholas18• 2 years ago

I'm surprised they got rid of the Bard name. It struck me as a really smart choice since a Bard is someone who said things, and it's an old/archaic enough word to not already be in a zillion other names.

Gemini, on the other hand, doesn't strike me as particularly relevant (except that perhaps it's a twin of ChatGPT?), and there are other companies with the same name. EDIT: I can see the advantage of picking a name that, like "Google" also starts with a "G".

Just as one data point, bard.com redirects to some other company (bd.com), whereas Gemini.com is a company by that name.

I'd be curious on the scuttlebutt on how this decision was reached!

teaearlgraycold• 2 years ago

There presumably was a time when Google considered going more into the “assistant” branding. They own assistant.ai but they don’t do much with it.

TillE2• 2 years ago

I'm sure "Bard" was primarily a Shakespeare reference (The Bard of Avon, frequently just The Bard), and I liked it too. An appropriate name for a technology that's all about language.

Gemini sounds cool and sci-fi though, and maybe it's a bit easier to localize since it's just straight Latin.

a_wild_dandan2• 2 years ago

To me, bard just sounds phonetically gross. Reminds me of “fart” or “beard.” It calls to mind medieval stuff: the Monte Python mud scene, Skyrim’s most annoying NPCs, plucking lutes. But Gemini? That sounds like a legendary space mission; this collective engineering push against the boundaries of human knowledge.

I do not have refined tastes. My b.

panarky2• 2 years ago

"Gemini" must refer to its inherently multimodal origins?

It's not a text-based LLM that was later adapted to include other modalities. It was designed from the start to seamlessly understand and work with audio, images, video and text simultaneously. Theoretically, this should give it a more integrated and versatile understanding of the world.

The promise is that multimodality baked in from the start, instead of bolting image recognition on to a primarily text-based LLM, should give it superior reasoning and problem-solving capabilities. It should excel at complex reasoning tasks to draw inferences, create plans, and solve problems in areas like math and programming.

I don't know if that promise has been achieved yet.

In my testing so far, Gemini Advanced seems equivalent to ChatGPT 4 in most of my use cases. I tested it on the last few of days worth of programming tasks that I'd solved with ChatGPT 4, and in most cases it returns exactly what I wanted on the first response, compared with the a lengthy back-and-forth required with ChatGPT 4 arrive at the same result.

But when analyzing images Gemini Advanced seems overly sensitive and constantly gives false rejections. For example, I asked it to analyze a Chinese watercolor and ink painting of a pagoda-style building amidst a flurry of cherry blossoms, with figures ascending a set of stairs towards the building. ChatGPT 4 gave a detailed response about its style, history, techniques, similar artists, etc. Gemini refused to answer and deleted the image because it detected people in the image, even though they were very small, viewed from the back, no faces, no detail whatsoever.

In my (limited) testing so far, I'd say Gemini Advanced is better at analyzing recent events than ChatGPT 4 with Bing. This morning I asked each of them to describe the current situation with South Korea possibly acquiring a nuclear deterrent. Gemini's response was very current and cited specific statements by President Yoon Suk-yeol. Even after triggering a Bing search to get the latest facts, the ChatGPT 4 response was muddy and overly general, with empty and obvious sentences like "pursuing a nuclear weapons program would confront significant technical, diplomatic, and strategic challenges".

jprival• 2 years ago

I thought “Bard” was an Asimov reference: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Someday_(short_story)

(on top of the more obvious references)

dgunay• 2 years ago

It's not a bad name, but personally when I first heard the name Bard I chuckled because LLMs had already come under so much criticism for their tendency to embellish the truth or say stuff that is just straight up false but sounds cool.

ants_everywhere• 2 years ago

Bards were the people who kept history and genealogy before written history. Think like Homer rather than Shakespeare. I think the name was meant more to evoke the idea that the AI is a repository of all linguistic knowledge in the same way that the bard was. And maybe also the idea that the AI was at your service in the same way the bard was at the service of the ruler.

cflewis• 2 years ago

Gemini is Latin, my guess is it more easily translates to other languages than Bard.

LukaszWiktor• 2 years ago

Who translates product names?

Rexxar• 2 years ago

Bard is latin too: https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/bardus#Etymology_2

int_19h6• 2 years ago

It really depends. Some languages don't use "special" words for astrological signs, so it's literally the same word as "twins". Which is a really weird name for a product.

CrypticShift2• 2 years ago

I agree. The original reason [1] for the gemini name seems artificial for a generic chatbot. It is OK for the model, and I'm sure a lot of "work" was put into "validating" it for the assistant, or... was it?

[1] https://the-decoder.com/how-googles-gemini-ai-model-got-its-...

pertymcpert3• 2 years ago

Bard just sounds terrible phonetically. Bard. Like something you find in Home Depot or some kind of old timey woodworking tool. Barf. Bored. Bard.

Yes I know what it really means but it doesn't change the fact that it's a terrible word.

earthling8118• 2 years ago

That's an incredibly subjective take. I don't agree at all. I don't care what they call it but I don't understand this reasoning.

happytiger4• 2 years ago

Gemeni, or the twins, is a deeply symbolic name for anyone who knows Greek history. It’s the story of Castor and Pollux, and in many versions of the story one brother killed the other only to beg for them to come back. It’s ominous to use this brand name for AI.

It’s also associated to the Gemini killer and Joseph Testa and Anthony Senter who were famous as the mafia’s Gemini twins hitmen.

I think better brands could have been had.

It does sound like some battlefield AI system from Robotron. “Sir, Gemini is charged and ready for battle.”

closewith• 2 years ago

Gemini was a stepping stone to a moonshot, which is almost certainly why the name was chosen.

Edit: another poster shared the etymology, the merger between Google Brain and DeepMind. I shall eat my words.

anonymouskimmer5• 2 years ago

For me it's associated with Gemini crypto and their horrible Gemini Earn investments in Genesis: https://www.web3isgoinggreat.com/?id=gemini-genesis-and-dcg-...

CydeWeys6• 2 years ago

It’s also associated to the Gemini killer and Joseph Testa and Anthony Senter who were famous as the mafia’s Gemini twins hitmen.

I've never heard of any of these people and I doubt most others have either. Maybe you have to be a true crime enthusiast to know the lore? Whereas if the name were Zodiac, then I would at least be aware there's a potential murderer connection.

SoftTalker• 2 years ago

Also the Gemini Lounge, where Roy DeMeo and his crew killed and dismembered people targeted for hits by the Gambino family.

sho_hn4• 2 years ago

"Bard" always struck me a bad naming - unfamiliar, unfriendly, too cerebral. I think the name was an impediment against establishing a household brand.

gnicholas18• 2 years ago

It's possible that it sounds even worse in other languages. That is, it might sound like bad words, onomatopoeia for bodily functions, or common exclamations (that would lead to lots of false positives).

I think it could have been established as a brand in the US, given Google's scale. Put a lute in the branding, run some funny commercials, and you're done.

EDIT: one thing no amount of branding can fix — the likelihood that people reach for "doh, Bard" (a la Simpsons) when Bard messes up. I could see that becoming a thing.

happytiger4• 2 years ago

Maybe named for The Bard’s Tale?

anonymouskimmer5• 2 years ago

unfamiliar, unfriendly, too cerebral

The Witcher is one of Netflix's most watch shows. I'd also imagine that most people in English speaking countries have been exposed to Shakespeare's nickname in high school English classes.

benreesman3• 2 years ago

In an increasingly commodity game (the big player LLM game), it’s already starting to hit the asymptote on the main levers: ties to NVIDIA and/or TSMC, serious financing capacity, and enough engagement channel to push it through. (There is much great work happening outside of the Peninsula).

I always thought GPT-4 was a little “HAL 9000” of a name for broad-based adoption, but the jury seems in, and the jury rules “cyberpunk is in”.

airstrike• 2 years ago

The broad name is ChatGPT, not GPT-4

int_19h6• 2 years ago

ChatGPT's claim to fame is as bleeding edge tech, and it's squarely down that alley.

jvolkman• 2 years ago

There are other considerations when naming something like this. "Bard" likely could never be a wake word on its own, for instance, but I'd imagine that "Gemini" will be at some point.

richardw2• 2 years ago

And if the brand took off, I imagine you could “Bard” something as a verb but not “Gemini” it.

gnicholas18• 2 years ago

Perhaps they're hoping people will stick with "google it".

gavmor• 2 years ago

The real question is what's nearby each name's vector embedding in terms of whatever similarity metric Gemini will use to talk about the world. That's their new canonical ontology, after all.

HumblyTossed• 2 years ago

I think they should have named it gAIl.

erickhill• 2 years ago

The Bard name gave me a warm fuzzy feeling immediately transporting me back to my youth playing (or at least trying to play) Bard's Tale. The name evoked adventure, excitement and a good dose of dread. And, the idea of it being "role playing" struck me as a master meta stroke.

Gemini, from the mythological standpoint, seemed to make more sense to me from an overall business/marketing standpoint. "This AI thing right here is your twin, see? It'll finish your sentences and stuff."

nomel• 2 years ago

Bard's Tale

https://apps.apple.com/us/app/the-bards-tale/id480375355

coremoff• 2 years ago

And similarly anyone playing modern tabletop RPGs will probably associated "Bard" with the smart, charismatic person who buffs the party and debuffs your enemies; perfect for an AI assistant

assimpleaspossi• 2 years ago

Bard showed some creativity in name selection. Gemini does not. You see that everywhere. Or at least my first thought was about the Gemini spacecraft

skeaker• 2 years ago

I thought it was in reference to Trurl's Electronic Bard, which just about presciently predicted LLM output (though the process is a bit more dramatic, what with how it simulates the whole universe to get to that output): https://electricliterature.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/11/Tr...

artdigital2• 2 years ago

They’ve plastered “bard” ads everywhere in Tokyo for a while. Surprised to kill the name so quickly, the marketing team in Japan probably had no idea

(Personally, I never liked how Bard sounded. Can’t put my finger on why, it was just not a pleasant name to me)

ElijahLynn• 2 years ago

Same here. Bard is not a sexy name. Gemini is way more sexy. (Neither is ChatGPT, or Google though either). I can't wait until we can call the assistant whatever we want, like Jarvis.

ithkuil• 2 years ago

Barudu?

vitorgrs2• 2 years ago

They also did a lot of (cringe) ads in Brazil.

balls187• 2 years ago

Same reason Arthur Anderson changed it’s name.

Bard was panned. Change the name, lose the bad press.

mos_basik• 2 years ago

Honestly surprised I'm the first to mention the name collision with the retro-modern linked documents protocol I keep hearing about (on HN) https://geminiprotocol.net/docs/faq-section-1.gmi

But glass half full, maybe it's for the better to have one's name shadowed by a Google product if one prefers to avoid eternal septembering one's community.

crazygringo7• 2 years ago

I'm not surprised -- I thought Bard was terrible branding. It's all associations with Shakespeare and poetry and medieval England, and as much as I might personally enjoy those, it's extremely backwards-looking, with archaic connotations. Also it sounds close to "beard" -- hairy stuff.

Gemini sounds like the space program -- futuristic, a leap for mankind. It's got all the right emotional associations. It's a constellation, it's out in space, it's made of stars. Plus it contains "gem" which feels fancy, valuable, refined.

I'm not saying Gemini is the best name I've ever heard or even close to it, but it feels 100% appropriate, in a way that Bard does not.

rob742• 2 years ago

Gem-in-eye? Ouch!

Also, Gemini was appropriate for the space program because (a) there were two astronauts in the capsule and (b) because of the constellation, "aiming for the stars" and all that. For the Google project however I can't come up with a plausible explanation - Google doesn't even try to give a reason for the name either.

taf2• 2 years ago

Big idea but maybe they should have just named it Google

a_wild_dandan2• 2 years ago

When I read new thread responses, I briefly thought that I wrote[1] your reply and was confused lol. Great minds think alike. I feel vindicated about my weird opinion.

[1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=39306764

chfalck• 2 years ago

Interesting. I don’t like the name at all because it makes me think of people who take horoscopes seriously. You’re impression seems to be untainted by that which is nice

josephjrobison• 2 years ago

The alliteration beauty of Google Gemini cannot be denied.

BEEdwards• 2 years ago

Though I agree bard isn't the best name, gemini is a worse name.

Bard has connotations, but by it's self it makes one think of a person that talks well.

WTF is gemini? It is a twin, but this is a singular product. Beyond that it's just generic. It doesn't tell you what it does at all.

datavirtue3• 2 years ago

This. It creeps women out. It's difficult enough getting them to use an AI tool.

My wife commented on this when she saw it in Google News. Something about some dude in a medieval pub.

uuddlrlrbaba• 2 years ago

Gemini as a zodiac sign: "Smart, passionate, and dynamic, Gemini is characterized by the Twins, Castor and Pollux, and is known for having two different sides they can display to the world. Expert communicators, Gemini is the chameleon of the Zodiac"

Which is pretty on the nose for an AI project. A chameleon with two different sides (good/evil?) and expert communicator

meltyness• 2 years ago

It's a hint about how to use it if you want to circumvent the censorship.

EchoReflection• 2 years ago

even though i liked Bard, it is only one (extra) letter away from being the word "bad". "Bard" is cooler imo but "Gemini" starts with "G", has "gem" (a rare, valuable thing) in it, and sounds pretty. Personally i don't care at all either way though.

michaelcampbell• 2 years ago

Gemini sounds like the space program -- futuristic, a leap for mankind

80 years ago, sure.

cruffle_duffle• 2 years ago

Gemini sounds like the space program

LOL, maybe I'm a bit jaded but Gemini sounds like some kind of cryptocurrency scam.

JohnFen• 2 years ago

Gemini sounds like the space program

That isn't at all the association I have with that word. I think of the astrological sign instead, so to me the association is pseudoscience and a hint of being bipolar.

This sort of thing is part of what makes naming things difficult. You can't count on any name having the same connotations to everyone.

jaybrendansmith• 2 years ago

Why not Delphi? Isn't that more like what they are trying to create, an Oracle? And it's like HAL, one step ahead of IBM. Is Delphi just too on-the-nose? Yes, it is also a programming environment, I have many fond memories of Borland Delphi.

explodingwaffle• 2 years ago

I thought it was just supposed to be a pun on “gen’ AI”

romwell• 2 years ago

thought it was just supposed to be a pun on “gen’ AI”

Then they'd have gone with Genie.

Which would be kinda genius on their part, but Google isn't that kind of company anymore.

nealabq• 2 years ago

Gemini is not distinct and memorable. It feels like a muddled compromise.

I'd name it GooGaa or Googa. Like "Google" and "goo-goo-gaa-gaa" (baby's first babbling). It's flowing, friendly & familiar.

qgin• 2 years ago

Bard felt like Google was treating LLMs as merely an amusing spinner of tales, just a narrative UI layer over the "real stuff" of the Google Search.

ionwake5• 2 years ago

Bard: fat inept old guy who gets by telling stories of yore

Gemini: a crypto exchange

Clearly they shouldn’t be asking the 21 year old interns what to call it.

Now before anyone in google gets butthurt like they usually do I doubt I could do much better but Gaia IMO would have been mint you know it starts with G is four letters and represents a nebulous deity. Took 3 seconds but hey I’m not paid to think. In fact I’m not paid at all

Edit> Gemini ultra is the best llm so far ( it seems) - apart from the name good job guys

rdsubhas• 2 years ago

And it has ai in it's name.

tarangpatel• 2 years ago

Bard sounds archaic, almost like an unintelligent persons name, no offense to the bards out there.

prvc• 2 years ago

Gemini

Symbolizing both human origin intelligence and AI becoming super-intelligent together. I think it's a good name because it draws on ancient human mythology and serves as a reminder of the concept of alignment.

tuan• 2 years ago

I'm so glad that they've changed the name :) Bard is really difficult for me, a non-native English speaker, to pronounce correctly. I think most people from my country (Vietnam) pronounce Bard as "bahd". Gemini on the other hand is so easy to pronounce.

int_19h6• 2 years ago

"baaahd" is more or less how native British English speakers would pronounce it.

jgrowl• 2 years ago

Astrologically, Gemini is associated with Communication. Specifically social, superficial, quick, back and forth communication. The sign is ruled by Mercury which is associated with Intelligence and being the messenger of the Gods. Mercury is often depicted with winged shoes as the planet itself is the fastest moving planet, orbiting the sun every 88 days. Mercury is considered to be dualistic (The Twins) and also rules the sign of Virgo, an earth sign that is associated with more deep cold analytical categorization.

urbandw311er• 2 years ago

As a Brit I’ll be glad to see the word association gradually return to that of our greatest playwright rather than something appropriated by big tech.

smcl• 2 years ago

To me Gemini is just sort of generic and uninteresting. There has to be hundreds or thousands of products and companies based on the name "Gemini" - "Bard" was at least interesting, different and distinct.

I've no idea about the quality of the product itself, I have never had a reason to use it. It's long past cliché now but I wouldn't get too attached to a Google product that is definitely costing a lot of money but which has no clear pathway to turning a profit. I think they will keep it ticking over until the hype train moves on from Chatbots/LLMs, and then it'll join the Google Graveyard @ https://killedbygoogle.com

hef19898• 2 years ago

The got rid of Bard, and missed the opportunity to either name it Genesys or Legion.

QuadrupleA• 2 years ago

I'd suspect they're just trying to start over - Bard kinda got pegged as Google's dumb, not-as-good, late-to-the-party clone of ChatGPT. It got teased a lot. I'm not sure Gemini is much different (still more impressed with GPT 3.5 & 4) but I guess the name change gives them a bit of a reset.

dhruvmittal• 2 years ago

One awkward thing is that Google's Gemini app is currently the third result searching Gemini on the Play Store-- after some bitcoin related applications. The namespace is occupied.

mupuff1234• 2 years ago

Pretty sure gemini will also get replaced eventually with Google assistant branding at least for the consumer facing products, might be still kept for cloud API etc.

baxuz• 2 years ago

"Bard" to me implies a person who tells tall tales while sounding entertaining.

In that regard the naming fits perfectly

felarof2• 2 years ago

I built https://clashofgpts.com to use Gemini and GPT4 side-by-side.

A good way to use your Gemini Ultra 2months trial and see if you want to switch to Google AI Premium subscription.

jjcm• 2 years ago

Getting really meta here, I was curious what GPT4 and Gemini Advanced thought of this discussion. I started with this prompt:

"Here's a collection of comments on hackernews discussing the differences between GPT4 and Google Gemini, a new chat model. Please summarize the main points, pros/cons for each:"

and then pasted in the content of this page.

A few things right off the bat - GPT4 is able to fit the full discussion into the context window, Gemini Advanced can fit about 40% of it in, but interestingly even though it cuts off at 40%, it fails to generate with that amount until you cull it down to 30% of the discussion.

Here's the output of the two:

GPT4

It seems like the discussion on Hacker News about the differences between GPT-4 and Google Gemini, now referred to as Gemini Advanced, brings up several points and concerns among users. Here's a summary of the main points raised:

Privacy and Data Use: There's a concern about conversations being processed by human reviewers to improve the technology powering Gemini Apps, with no opt-out mechanism for privacy offered in the paid feature.

Disabling Data Use: Users can disable Gemini Apps Activity to prevent future conversations from being reviewed or used to improve machine-learning models, but there's skepticism about settings being reset with updates and the legalities of such practices.

Corporate Practices: There's speculation about corporate motivations behind data retention policies and skepticism about the effectiveness and honesty of opt-out mechanisms based on past behaviors of large tech companies.

Comparison with GPT-4: Users have experimented with both Gemini Advanced (previously Bard Advanced) and GPT-4 and noted that while Gemini might be better at certain tasks like translation and integrating search results, it is perceived to be worse at coding, logic, and has a tendency to hallucinate more in certain scenarios.

Integration and Ecosystem: There's discussion about Gemini's potential integration into various Google services, offering a unified AI experience across Google's ecosystem. This could position Google strongly in the AI race, potentially overshadowing competitors by leveraging its existing services like Gmail, Docs, and YouTube.

AI Implementation and Limitations: Comments touched on the implementation of logic in AI, with some users finding limitations in both Gemini and GPT-4's abilities to handle logical reasoning and complex coding tasks.

Concerns about AI in Healthcare: There's speculation about the role of AI in healthcare advice, with concerns about the risks of hallucinations and the impact on well-being.

Corporate Power and Strategy: Discussions also veer into how Google's strategy with Gemini and its potential bundling with other services could affect the market, consumer choices, and the competitive landscape.

Legal and Ethical Considerations: Users raised questions about the legalities of data use practices, the ethical considerations of AI in giving medical advice, and the broader implications of AI advancements on society.

These points reflect a mix of technical observations, personal experiences, and broader concerns about privacy, corporate practices, and the future role of AI in various domains.

-------------------------------------------

Gemini Advanced

Here's a summary of the feedback and insights obtained from the Hacker News comment thread regarding Google Gemini vs. GPT-4:

Overall Sentiment The Google Gemini chat model is a strong competitor to GPT-4, with users highlighting potential advantages and disadvantages relative to ChatGPT. It seems further testing and exploration is needed to reach a definitive conclusion about which is ultimately "better".

Gemini Pros

Translation: Surpasses GPT-4 in ability to accurately translate idioms from languages like Chinese and Japanese. Search Integration: Provides superior context by smoothly incorporating search results in its generated responses. Potential for Wide-Reaching Integration: Could deeply and seamlessly integrate with Google's vast suite of productivity tools and services (Gmail, Docs, Maps, etc.), potentially surpassing Microsoft in this capacity.

Gemini Cons

Privacy Concerns: Users question Gemini's review, storage, and usage of conversations for model improvement, particularly the retention of data for 72 hours for "safety and reliability" without offering opt-out mechanisms. Questionable Censorship: Gemini may overly restrict medical-related or other sensitive topics. Logic Shortcomings: May present contradictory statements or struggle with basic logic puzzles. Hallucinations: Tendency to create inaccurate or confusing descriptions when interacting with images. GPT-4 Strengths (In Relation to Gemini)

Coding: Slightly greater capability when given coding tasks. Logic: Better performance in handling logical reasoning challenges. Key Considerations for Large Language Models

Privacy: Transparency, clear choices, and strong privacy controls are crucial in establishing trust and acceptance. Logic and Accuracy: The ability to reason correctly and avoid illogical contradictions or fabrications remains a foundational challenge for the advancement of these technologies. Censorship: Balancing safety concerns with the free flow of information and allowing users more control over the content filtering. Future Opportunities

Enterprise Usage: Both Google and Microsoft (who has invested in ChatGPT) may find significant opportunity in enterprise markets leveraging language models to enhance productivity and work tools. Bundling: Google might further cement its competitive advantage by offering attractively priced bundles that combine Gemini with existing services like Google Drive, YouTube Premium, or others. Let me know if you'd like a more detailed look at any specific aspect or thread from the discussion!

godisdad• 2 years ago

Love how they rebranded before creating a valuable brand

neaden• 2 years ago

So for some reason I stumbled upon asking Bard/GPT for a reccomendation of a biography on Gregory of Nyssaa as a test, I wast looking for one but it turns out there really isn't on, at least in English. This gives them the tendency to Hallunicate. Sure enough tried on Gemini and get a fictional biography Saint Gregory of Nyssa: An Intellectual Biography by Rowan Williams (The former Archbishop of Canterbury). I think it's making this up based on the book St Gregory of Nazianzus: An Intellectual Biography but that is by John McGurkin. The other ones it recommends are Gregory of Nyssa by Lewis Ayers (A real author, no such book), Gregory of Nyssa: The Life and Works of a Cappadocian Father, and Gregory of Nyssa: Asceticism and Anthropology by Sarah Coakley. This last one is the closest to actually existing since she edited the book Re-Thinking Gregory of Nyssa which is a collection of essays on him.

So it didn't make up any authors at least, but did make up some books. It will happily make up ISBNs for them if I ask and even provide links to Amazon, that of course go to other books.

Asking for a book about any other figure notable enough to have a Wikipedia page but obscure enough to not have any existing book written about them will do the same thing, I tried it out with multiple signers of the Declaration of Independence for instance.

mise_en_place• 2 years ago

It’s hilarious to see Google dethroned from the AI/ML field. All scrappy startups eventually become slow monolithic incumbents.

scudsworth• 2 years ago

wow. it can even caption a photograph of my dog for me.

stan_kirdey• 2 years ago

I've been testing Ultra model today and comparing it to open source Mixtral MOE on HF chat. Gemini Ultra lost in every instance to the free open source model, including code generation. I think the tasks I do with the help of LLMs are common, and Gemini Ultra is unusable at the moment.

Gemini refuses to answer or perform even on the simple prompts.

I hope Google team can make it better, but at the moment, for my light coding and text analysis use cases it is not worth $19.99

philips• 2 years ago

Can you paste in the transcripts?

downWidOutaFite• 2 years ago

Only a few product names, so easy to understand

  - Bard
  - Gemini
  - Pro 1.0 model
  - Gemini Advanced
  - Ultra 1.0
  - Google One AI Premium Plan
  - Gmail, Docs, Slides, Sheets
  - Google app on iOS
  - Gemini app
  - Google Assistant

wolpoli2• 2 years ago

Now that Bard is Gemini, it's going to be impossible to find any information on the Gemini protocol/Gemini clients/Gemini sites. It's not very nice for Google to use the same name.

jraph2• 2 years ago

Yeah, they keep doing this. Came to say this (I don't quite care about / for the product itself).

They introduced Google Meet when Jitsi Meet already existed and is a similar product! It was easy to call it Google Call, or I don't know, figure it out. You haven't ran out of synonyms for Talk yet despite the huge churn. There are certainly sexier possible names than "Meet" too. Or than Gemini.

Come on, you can find names that don't clash with existing products. You have dedicated teams for this. You've heard about the existing stuff. I'm sure you do extensive research when picking a name, to avoid lawsuits if nothing else. Also Someone has heard of Gemini at Google. Someone has heard of Jitsi Meet at Google. It has to be intentional.

Of course Gemini comes from Greek mythology, nobody can claim the exclusivity on this, and here it's not even a competitor. Meet is a generic term too.

They chose the name clashes. It's highly likely they can't be sued for this. But still. Legal ≠ right. Find something else.

Rant over.

wolpoli2• 2 years ago

You are right that Google can't be sued for this. The only thing that the Gemini protocol/Gemini clients/Gemini community could do is rebrand.

diimdeep• 2 years ago

It is insane how hard it has become to create new or anonymous google account or to log in to old one that is not associated with your identity, it is practically impossible.

ChildOfChaos• 2 years ago

The promise sounded good, but the reviews for Gemini Advanced are not very positive.

Google have thrown it in as part of Google one, but this means it's the same price as ChatGPT+ which for sure seems better despite Google's promises.

jpeter• 2 years ago

Integrate it into Android Auto please

farhanhubble• 2 years ago

A company the size of Google can't come with something more catchy? The product better be compelling cause no one is going to check out what Gemini does just for the name.

confiq• 2 years ago

of course the gemini android app is not available in Germany or EU

https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.google.and...

summerlight4• 2 years ago

Beside of the model quality or whatever, I think the subscription plan tiers are structured in a quite weird way, especially for those who already use Google One. Previously, the tiers are reasonably structured:

  1. $9.99/month for 2TB + other benefits. Offered in both monthly and annual plans.
  2. $24.99/month for 5TB. Includes all benefits above. Offered in both monthly and annual plans.
  3. Higher tiers for 10~30TB. Includes all benefits above. Offered only in monthly plans.

The 3rd option doesn't have an annual plan but other than that it's consistent and easy to understand. Now we have one more plan for "AI".

  4. $19.99/month for 2TB + other benefits + Gemini access. Offered only in monthly plans.

Now the existing Google One subscribers are now put in a weird situation. 2TB annual plan users now need to move to a monthly plan to use Gemini. It's worse for higher tiers, since they don't have an upgrade option at all without decreasing the storage size. And Google Fi users are even in the worst case, as they don't even have an option for upgrade, even if they're willing to do so.

I guess they know this so they specified that high tier subscribers can use AI features at no extra charge until July 31 and probably prepare a new plan for them then, but this still create lots of user confusions. Having YT Premium as a separate subscription plan is already a pain, but Google, you don't have to bring this trouble into the product supposed to be the "One".

chaostheory3• 2 years ago

They did the same pricing scheme for YouTube premium family plans. My guess is that they took out the annual plans so they can extract more money from customers.

okrad• 2 years ago

Good catch! I upgraded to Gemini Advanced to try it out for 2 months and figured I’d cancel. There does not seem to be a way to downgrade the plan without canceling and I was on the 100GB/yr plan through August. No discount on new monthly subscription. Bummer.

Sargos• 2 years ago

I use Google Fi and I upgraded to the AI tier just fine

archon810• 2 years ago

Yeah, Gemini Advanced should just be an add-on for any Google One plan. The current structure makes it look like an intern with no experience came up with it and everyone just rolled with it and pushed it to production.

windthrown2• 2 years ago

I'm a Google Fi user but have not tried to sign up yet. Would you mind expanding on your point about Fi affecting the ability to upgrade?

summerlight4• 2 years ago

https://support.google.com/googleone/answer/14534406#zippy=%...

Looks like they got some complaints from Fi users and now they've updated their wording to a more reasonable one; previously it was something like "no, you can't, you gotta remove your Google Fi Unlimited benefits via customer service" or similar.

ukuina2• 2 years ago

Note that, unlike other plan benefits, Gemini Ultra access is only granted to the primary Family member/account-holder. Double-bummer.

rllearneratwork• 2 years ago

doesn't work in US on Android now. An app says "Gemini is not available"

genevra• 2 years ago

Thank God "bard" was the dumbest Ai name yet

dekhn• 2 years ago

Sad launch experience: I download and install the app, and it just tells me "This app isn't available. Try again later".

I'm in US, on a pixel phone and a xoogler. You'd think they would love to give me access.

I also tried going thru assistant, and through the google app, no luck, and after uninstalling and reinstalling the Google app, now the gemini app button just hangs the UI(!) Oh wait... a reboot fixed it. Lol, google has become microsoft.

Animats• 2 years ago

Not to be confused with the space program, the Winklevoss's brothers crypto exchange...

FpUser• 2 years ago

Ok I tried it to create snippets of code for some obscure cases. ChatGPT passed with flying colors. Gemini kept referring me to documentation and regurgitating how I should consult it. It plainly sucks.

vcryan• 2 years ago

yeah, okay... whatever

cl422• 2 years ago

Anyone know if Gemini has access to the web? Or how to give it access, if so? Happy to pay for Ultra but the docs are unclear...

foogazi• 2 years ago

It can summarize links and provide links for products

I asked it to summarize a link for a product and give me comparable products, with reviews and links and build a table for the results

cl422• 2 years ago

Aha, thank you! After trying a few more queries, I see it doing that. Weirdly, Gemini regularly tells me it doesn't have access to search results or the web.

ByQuyzzy• 2 years ago

Gemini? First Go and now Gemini really? Can't wait for Google iOS and Google Windows.

dr_pardee• 2 years ago

Gentlemen, please give a warm welcome to this next performer, put your dollars in and give it up for Gemini!

camdenlock• 2 years ago

This doesn’t seem to be available via their Vertex APIs yet.

seanvelasco• 2 years ago

searched for this in the app store. got a "Gemini AI Expert" ad as the first result.

i understand app review process is quite strict in the app store - i'm just wondering why it's not the same for ads?

i hate ads.

Mistletoe2• 2 years ago

I'm impressed with Gemini a lot and prefer it to ChatGPT. I asked what the price of Bitcoin was today and it gave me the price from several sources and I told her the Coinbase price was wrong and she checked again and said "You know what, you are right, I've corrected that."

She seems nicer than ChatGPT, is faster, and gives answers with less fluff and nonsense padding added. I think I've found my new LLM.

I hated the name Bard it just seemed like the name a of a second place LLM, I don't know how to describe it better than that.

ulfw• 2 years ago

What will this thing be called next quarter? Will it be around?

atleastoptimal• 2 years ago

If this is the best Google can do 1.5 years after GPT-4 finished training, then OpenAI surely still has a big lead.

aiauthoritydev• 2 years ago

I am glad they renamed bard to gemini.

Google is a global company a hell of its their users are not native english speakers and for a lot of english speakers like those from say India, they do not know what Bard is. Bard sounds like a LGBTQ hippie with pink hair. Perfectly good name for a beta and experimental product. Not for something mature and major.

Gemini is pretty good though I do not know whether Gem-in-eye or Je-mee-nee is the correct pronunciation. Gemini is a start, constellation and extremely popular word and most people are likely to know it because horoscope.

sirspacey3• 2 years ago

This is wild to admit but we are directly betting that Google will fail to effectively incorporate Gemini across GSuite for Work.

I think it is (very) fair to say this is a risky bet. I would love to hear from the HN community why we are wrong to take it.

Here’s the case we see:

1. Google has a long history of seeking to evolve the GSuite and failing. There are notable exceptions, but the failures are far more notable (Wave, G+).

2. Extending Gsuite is a scripts game. As amazing as the idea of an AI powered Gsuite is, practical B2B implementation requires a heavy amount of custom process design and integration. While Google can modify their own products far beyond what GApp scripts do, the ecosystem around Gsuite is still fundamentally very hacky. There’s an entire universe of products that could just be Google add-ons but aren’t. Google has missed the trend of no code/low code when you compare to tools like Notion, Coda, AirTable, Zapier, etc.

3. GSuite products are fundamentally legacy UIs. This is the riskiest part of our bet. The thesis is that AI-first approaches to solving for user needs will be significantly better solved by re-imagining common products than adding chat-driven functionality on top of them. If true, Google could actually lose market share after incorporating Gemini.

Microsoft, in relative terms, is executing on all of the above and has been for a while.

There’s a host of other reasons (mentioned on this thread already) Google may fail in this attempt, but the execution challenge here is intense. Google is both taking longer to get to market and delivering a lackluster comparison overall to OpenAI/Microsoft, despite all the metric gamesmanship.

MS has so much more of the market and has to win, whereas Google’s revenue and stock price is far less impacted by GSuite.

It would be an extraordinary thing for Google to actually win this race.

vrzucchini• 2 years ago

Things like the below are precisely why I would not only bet on Google failing but silently hope that they do.

    Sorry, Gemini Advanced isn't available for you

    Gemini Advanced is not yet available in some countries, for work accounts, or for users under a certain age.

Rant:

No explanation, no suggested alternative; just an ominous "Learn More" button that sends you barreling down the spiraling rabbit hole of support.google.com. Diving deeper, I uncovered that 's accessibility is limited to personal accounts under Google One with the sole Workspace option being for Google Workspace Individual(??).

On my personal account I can sign up for Gemini Advanced by upgrading my Google One account to Google One AI Premium.

As a standard Google Workspace account holder, I was directed towards Gemini for Workspace but naturally that is still branded as Duet AI for Workspace.. And naturally I have to request a trial and be contacted by a Google team member even though it has been announced as being generally available..

It's a microcosm of the broader frustrations with Google's approach to product development and user engagement that we've come to expect - hyped product launches with restricted availability, arbitrary limitations, and a consistently-confused product ecosystem.

htrp5• 2 years ago

Microsoft, in relative terms, is executing on all of the above and has been for a while.

They are and copilot for office still is atrocious. However, they are learning and developing what should be the new interfaces for AI enabled productivity.

sirspacey3• 2 years ago

Yes we’re also betting Microsoft will do it and it will suck.

So far, not a risky bet.

superhumanuser• 2 years ago

Android, US:

"Gemini isn't currently available. Try again later."

https://i.imgur.com/qMApYjV.jpeg

kimjune01• 2 years ago

Bard is a difficult word to pronounce in East asian countries (korean, japanese) compared to Gemini. I'm thinking the renaming is a globalist move.

_heimdall• 2 years ago

They clearly should have gone with HAL if the Bard branding wasn't working out.

ArunRaja• 2 years ago

Gemini Web : missing Custom instructions from Chatgpt.

Gemini android : not available in India yet.

wellthisisgreat• 2 years ago

Soo, Jimmy?

to OpenAI’s Charlie?

stratigos• 2 years ago

Well, we all know a Gemini cant be trusted ;-)

nebula8804• 2 years ago

At this point I have been disappointed so many times by what they release that I just come up with a task I successfully had ChatGPT4 do and just paste it into both tools to compare answers. That is the easiest way for me to tell if they have caught up or not.

In this case, I asked it to look at a CSV of 100 transactions from a recent trip and give me some insights. ChatGPT4 gave me a breakdown of the transactions and told me where all the money went.

Google: I cannot process this amount of data.

just pastes the first 50 lines

I cannot process this data.

pastes 20 lines.

I cannot answer this question at this time.

Ok then, I guess I'll keep using ChatGPT.

replwoacause• 2 years ago

Still not better than ChatGPT. I gave it some tax related questions with URLs to use as source, it flopped badly but ChatGPT absolutely nailed it, even getting the complicated tax logic correct. Same experience asking it to analyze code. It is objectively worse than ChatGPT still.

aagha• 2 years ago

What an absolute cluster of crap software the Android Gemini app is!

Unlike Assistant, when you put in a request, you THEN have to hit the Submit button to make the request go through.

And it can't do things like set timers.

I'm shocked at how such a big company releases such terrible features thrust upon (b?)millions of users and how so called "product managers" are able to keep their jobs and move up the ranks and make millions of dollars in comp.

comonoid• 2 years ago

Still fails to count properly legless elephants' legs.

syradar• 2 years ago

This would have been exciting if coming from a company that you can trust to keep services alive and not sell your data.

99catmaster• 2 years ago

As someone who’s exclusively used ChatGPT (3, 3.5 and now 4), how do the other alternatives compare?

dch82• 2 years ago

Google Bard -> Google Gemini -> Google Assistant?

I’m sure Gemini replaces Assistant and we have two Assistant apps in Play Store Google Pay style.

felarof2• 2 years ago

I built https://clashofgpts.com to use Gemini and GPT4 side-by-side.

A good way to use your Gemini Ultra 2months trial and see if you want to switch to Google AI Premium subscription.

Bard is now Gemini, and we’re rolling out a mobile app and Gemini Advanced

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