Started a stupid company. Failed.

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6805699

by themanthatfell • 13 years ago

1344 402 13 years ago

news.ycombinator.com

Ran out of money. Ran out of credit. Losing house in two months (already foreclosed). Wife pregnant. Three kids all under 6. Pretty sure I am the opposite of everyone here. I am no man. Just a statistic. Everything is gone. Selling spare parts to keep the lights on. It was a nice fantasy, HN. To the rest of you: fight hard and good luck.

yogo2• 13 years ago

Hang in there man. Care to share more about what kind of company? How big of a gamble was it?

aforty• 13 years ago

Ouch, hang in there. Go get a 'real' job until you get back on your feet.

xplorer• 13 years ago

Which kind of company did you start? There's always hope. If you are a developer or sysadmin you can easily find a job.

Keep up!! Everything is going to be alright in the end!

Don't give up, keep your head up and keep looking up, then you will find some positivity in your life.

splatzone• 13 years ago

Sorry to hear about this, hopefully you'll bounce back.

Did you plan for this eventuality when you started the venture? Can you spare any details about what went wrong?

greenwalls• 13 years ago

Don't give up. When you hit rock bottom that's when you have no other choice but to turn it all around.

jfoster• 13 years ago

It sounds like now is not really the right time in his life for "don't give up".

It's time to get things stable again, and then if he still wants to give it another shot he should do that once the other parts of his life (and his finances) are settled down a bit.

pallandt2• 13 years ago

You should comment with a list of skills, maybe either a fellow HN-er offers you a job, or knows someone else that might be able to.

It's close to Christmas guys, help this person if you can.

Edit: Also, I noticed you said you're pretty sure you're the opposite of 'us', I can assure you, there's at least another 'failure' to join you, me. I've failed plenty of times in various ways. I used to have a company (not a startup in the common sense though, just a small business) as well some time ago, it didn't fail per se, but I ended up closing it voluntarily because things weren't going in the direction I wanted them to, lots of external factors out of my reach. I felt terrible about it for quite a long time though...now I'm better.

mugenx86• 13 years ago

You may have lost your dream, but you have gained time to focus on your family and well being.

Find a job and take it easy for a while. Rebuild and come back stronger!

brianmcdonough2• 13 years ago

Keep your head up and don't be afraid to reach out to this community or others for help. All is not lost and you are no different than anyone here, though you may have over-extended yourself. Beating yourself up will not help you or your family.

001sky• 13 years ago

Bad bet to make or a good bet with a bad outcome? You may have already commented as much as you feel comfortable with, but would be important for readers to understand perhaps more on this point. In any event, this has some bearing on even how you perceive yourself when you say 'just a statistic'.

lemonberry2• 13 years ago

I've had one of the toughest years of my life. One thing I kept doing was writing a gratitude list. Almost daily. It may have saved my life. Good luck.

skyraider• 13 years ago

Check the Who's Hiring and Seeking Freelancer posts here. The November ones may still be active. Also, just to re-emphasize, you should post a list of skills in this thread.

zedshaw3• 13 years ago

Hey, other comments are going to give you a few lines telling you to not quit, that you should hang in there, and that it'll be alright. That may be true, but to me it sounds like you're possibly not doing well enough to make any of that possible, and you probably need to find work fast. Here's what I want to do:

1. I have a little list of companies looking for employees that I'll send you. Not much just companies that have contacted me looking for people. 2. I am a bad ass writer and have a crazy resume, but more importantly I know how to craft resumes and I'll look at yours and help you fix it up. 3. If you're in the San Francisco area I'll meet up with you and listen to what happened and see if there's a way to work out of it, or at least listen. 4. If you email me at help@learncodethehardway.org I'll talk with you and see if there's other ways I can help.

I'm serious, hit me up on email and I'll help out if I can. In fact, this goes for anyone else looking for work right now. Email the above and I'll reply with my little list. I don't make commissions on placement or anything like that, just a good thing to do.

GowGuy47• 13 years ago

You sir, are a good guy.

pallandt2• 13 years ago

Thanks for doing this, Zed!

um304• 13 years ago

Just found one more reason to be your fan, Zed!

eugenesia• 13 years ago

Wow... that's a really nice thing to do for one in need. Gotta be your friend Zed!

coolsunglasses• 13 years ago

Zed helped me back when I lived in NYC and was really depressed despite me being a total stranger from the internet.

michaelochurch2• 13 years ago

I'm really glad that people like you exist, Zed, and keep fighting. (Also, I'm a fan of LCTHW.)

Silicon Valley was built by people helping each other out and paying it forward. The current Atherton/Sand Hill Road, "fuck you I've got mine", NIMBY, crowd seem to have forgotten that.

movebits5• 13 years ago

cool

sergiotapia• 13 years ago

Zed, you truly are an inspiration. The real deal. You inspire people.

singular5• 13 years ago

I have for a while thought of you as (total honesty here) a bullying cock (though talented at what you do), but this comment which is sincere, genuine and offered to someone for whom this could be greatly helpful has made me seriously reconsider. Kudos.

kibibu• 13 years ago

It strikes me that Zed has been on the receiving end of way more bullying than he has given out (including being called a cock by you in this very post)

typicalrunt• 13 years ago

Getting a bit OT here but I have to wade in...

To people that know him personally, like myself, Zed is a great guy. My guess at the problem is that his Internet persona took on its own life outside of his control, and it grew to such a bad situation that it was better to not try to feed the trolls and simply put some distance from it.

In other words, let the haters hate and be ignored, stand up for yourself when appropriate, and the good people will eventually acknowledge good deeds and fight for you.

peteforde• 13 years ago

Zed is often misunderstood by those who have never spent time with him in person.

He's a hoot! Funny, insightful, earnestly well-intentioned and full of ideas that are IMHO way ahead of the curve.

Him reaching out to help is not surprising.

santoshalper• 13 years ago

I have no idea if he is a bullying cock or not, but his personal website is a spectacular artifact of narcissistic douchebaggery. I am not sure I have ever seen someone tell you he doesn't care what you think of him so many times in such a short span. It reads like a high school journal.

One day, when he is an adult, he will look back on that and really cringe.

zedshaw3• 13 years ago

Well, here we go again. You'll call me a cock, and then I'll rip you in half verbally, and then you'll forget that you called me a cock and go off telling everyone I'm such a big bad bullying meanie for all the horrible awful things I said to you, and then I'll be crushed by the general opinion all you highly influential meaningful people have about me that I'll...

Wait, actually I don't give a fuck what you think. I'm busy helping people while you're busy calling me a cock. Fuck you.

scrrr2• 13 years ago

Grow up and stop worrying so much about what people think or say.

znowi• 13 years ago

Yea, seeing zedshaw's comment I thought he was about to ridicule the guy for whatever reason. This was unexpected. A good deed, though it doesn't make him not a bullying cock all of a sudden. He's a stellar rockstar with attitude. It happens :)

shin_lao• 13 years ago

Every coin has two faces.

nollidge2• 13 years ago

Christ, not this shit again.

Can we all please rise above talking about personalities? How fucking drab.

gress3• 13 years ago

Will people please stop replying to this otherwise HN's 'flame war' and controversy detectors will kick in and bury the posting.

JakeStone• 13 years ago

Good on you, Zed.

lemonberry2• 13 years ago

Wow. Very cool.

stuntmachine• 13 years ago

Class. I don't care if people think your style is too harsh. You're here setting a positive example of altruism, and genuinely trying to help out a complete stranger. Props.

amazedsaint• 13 years ago

Awesome, Zed.

ansimionescu• 13 years ago

I can't believe I didn't know about you. I'm devouring your blog posts now while listening to Session 22. Both are quite (very) enjoyable, thank you.

yarou• 13 years ago

As jaded as I am on altruism and human nature, this post gives me a slight glimmer of hope.

Scienz• 13 years ago

Don't worry, I'm sure the next person you meet will bring you crashing back to reality.

@OP.. it may not help much in your position, but that Man in the Arena quote seems relevant here. Imo you still deserve more respect (all other things being equal) than the vast majority of the world that not only never attempt great works, but actively try to prevent others from trying or succeeding too. Hope that your next endeavor goes better.

Epicism• 13 years ago

Good for you, sir.

sliverstorm• 13 years ago

I agree, if he were young and single with no dependents maybe "hang in there" would be appropriate, but this guy just told us he has a wife, three kids, and a fourth on the way. To add to that he is out of money, out of credit, and out his house. When you haven't got a nickel to your name and you have five dependents, that's hardly the time to go "down for doubles" on a big risk (unless you are out of options)

jamoy• 13 years ago

This is awe inspiring. I wish I can help like this too..

Garmonidas• 13 years ago

Amazing. Really nice. You're a good man.

searine• 13 years ago

Hey, other comments are going to give you a few lines telling you to not quit, that you should hang in there, and that it'll be alright.

You got to know when to shoot a dog...

darkfish• 13 years ago

Arnold's 6th rule. giving back to the community.

Legend• 13 years ago

Fan of your work... now an even bigger fan! :) Thank you making this world a better place.

chkevin• 13 years ago

Awesome, Zed

khalidmbajwa• 13 years ago

Big fan of your books, an even bigger fan of you now. You sir, are a good man. Here, have a virtual hug !

primitivesuave• 13 years ago

You're awesome man, really warmed my heart to see this.

n1ghtmare_• 13 years ago

I'm glad there are people like you !

asabjorn• 13 years ago

Completely agree. In addition, since he seems to have struggled for a while, I suggest not maximizing income and instead focus on a less stressful 3-4 year plan to get back on his feet.

Life is long so there will be plenty of new chances to swing for the fences if that is what he desires. And if his 3-4 year plan is executed ahead of schedule plans can always be changed.

d4vlx• 13 years ago

It's posts like this that make me love HN :')

serkanh• 13 years ago

Kudos to you Mr. Shaw. I enjoyed your books that you so kindly made available for free but this act just made me respect you tenfold. World needs more people like you.

dnyce• 13 years ago

I've said it once before and I'll say it again... Zed, if YOU are ever up for it, I'd love to buy you a beer man. I live in the bay area and so meeting up should be of little issue. I've seen the comments from your fans AND detractors, and I must say, I've never really bought into the negative. I'm not surprised by this comment and your willingness to help another individual who has fallen on hard times.

nashequilibrium• 13 years ago

Thanks for offering this guy light at the end of the tunnel. This reminds me of a a talk i had with my cousin a while back. I said to him that he had it easy growing up with his dad being an entrepreneur(construction industry), he laughed and said no way, maybe my younger brothers. He says that one day he gets home from school, his mother is sitting outside crying and guy's are moving furniture out the house, creditors where seizing all their stuff. He called his dad but nothing could be done. To top this off, his dad would be gone by 4am get home late at night and he would hardly see him.

So, his dad borrows some money from family and friends, keep in mind everyone was talking shit about him now, both friends and family. He took them across state to a rural area and told them that a lot of construction was going to happen here and that he was going to setup shop here. He hardly saw his dad and he doesn't remember a lot about how his dad did it but things started getting better, his dad got a contract with a huge mining company and shit just took off. We were discussing this at his beach house, that his dad bought for him. He said that he remembers the hard times but his younger brothers, think that there was no suffering just happy times and the life they have now. My uncle is now retired and the business is totally family run, he spends more time travelling than anything else.

In tech, we honestly glamorize startups, but what about all the others, the 90 out of every 100 startups that fail or just stay in zombie status. My point is not to encourage the OP to dig in but to let him know that it is ok to fail, many do with families as well but he will bounce back with a good job or something else down the line. Zed has provided that ray of light and hopefully u can turn it into a rainbow!

Baadier_Sydow• 13 years ago

That's the risks of entrepreneurship. I come from an extremely entrepreneurially inclined family and I vividly remember having sheriffs of the court coming to knock on the door when I was growing. Its not all rosy when you are in the inside. I remember the kids at school were impressed by the big house and nice cars, we had 3 but only 2 driver, but there are other things that happen behind the scenes.

Good luck man, keep the faith.

tomphoolery• 13 years ago

you rock, zed

mylons• 13 years ago

good guy zed shaw. kudos to you sir, and if you ever want to grab a beer/bourbon around SF message me! good deeds need to go rewarded

r0ash3• 13 years ago

You are a gem, if we get couple of thousands like you with loud voice this world would be a great place to enjoy.

AKifer• 13 years ago

Wow ! What a man ! By reputation, I knew you from your rant on Ruby on Rails years ago and your move to the python ecosystem. As a Rails lover, at first time I was thinking like the mainstream about your rants and your opinions. Later I discovered learnXthehardway series and your work and found them awesome. But today, I definatelly appreciate you Zed, hope one day I will meet you in person, even for a 15 minutes coffee time. Have a nice day and good luck themanthatfell, one advice. Never give up, as a men we should never abandon even how deep is our situation (I even took the risk to quit my job in 2011 while my wife was giving birth of our first child), you'll always find a way. If you have 1 chance on 100 to get something, just try 100 times and you'll get it, even Thomas Edison tried 10K times before finding the way to make the light bulb.

aaronem2• 13 years ago

I encountered Mr. Shaw's rant on Rails years before I happened to find myself on a Rails project, and thank God I did; otherwise, my experience with Rails might've led me to think there was something wrong with me.

nagarch• 13 years ago

Thank you for your nice help.

beggerss• 13 years ago

Zed Shaw you are the man

donniefitz2• 13 years ago

Zed, You are an example to many if you deliver on this. I hope the OP follows up with you so you can.

jcox92• 13 years ago

You taught me python the hard way. I watched all the videos at 1.5x speed so I will always picture you as having a curt, snappy, slightly high-pitched voice.

Also, that's nice of you to help out. I hope he gets in touch with you.

movebits5• 13 years ago

very cool! initiative.

ing33k• 13 years ago

you are awesome !

erniejimz• 13 years ago

Thank You Zed, you are truly awesome!!

hoggle2• 13 years ago

Helping out, Motherfucker - Are you doing it? <3

roozbeh18• 13 years ago

Zed shaw for president.

Kiro• 13 years ago

Can I pay you to fix my resume?

x3c• 13 years ago

Try asking for help first.

weland• 13 years ago

The Internet ought to get you a beer.

fsniper2• 13 years ago

I think that's a great response indeed.

meira• 13 years ago

Awesome, Zed! I guess that you'll receive a lot of emails :) Me included. lol.

atmosx• 13 years ago

I loved your comment more than the story. Really, it's good to see that we people do actually care for one another. This kind of thing could happen to everybody.

Good luck helping that guy and others that have real problems, wish you both all the best.

cpplinuxdude• 13 years ago

Let's not delude ourselves here; these days getting work is all about network too. Fantastic resume is fantastic, contacts who can get it at the top of the pile: even better.

jgeerts• 13 years ago

Faith in humanity... restored, thank you for being this nice.

Fede_V• 13 years ago

That's incredibly nice of you Zed. Seriously - it's pretty fucking awesome.

Oh - and I suggested Python the hard way to a bunch of people, and those that stuck with it, found it great.

swat535• 13 years ago

please accept this small piece of karma as a token of appreciation for helping this person. we need more people like you in this world.

idrisser• 13 years ago

Just great. I love this community just because of a comment like this, once in a while.

gacba• 13 years ago

Thanks for NOT giving him the "hang in there" speech and some real alternatives to get him back on his feet. You're awesome, man.

mumbi• 13 years ago

Damn dude, you're really nice. Props. Also, hope everything turns around for you, themanthatfell.

JeremyMorgan• 13 years ago

I read "I am a bad ass writer and have a crazy resume" and then thought "oh who is this guy?". Then I saw it was Zed lol. yeah, totally a badass writer. Carry on.

So cool that people are stepping up to help instead of kicking someone while they are down. This guy isn't a failure until he gives up. It just wasn't the right time, and I look forward to a future post where he talks about his next shot at doing something.

Good on all of you to redeem the HN community in the eyes of all.

smrtinsert• 13 years ago

You are awesome Zed.

marincounty2• 13 years ago

No lectures--no advice=The World needs more guy's like you. I hope you can help him.

alexpatton• 13 years ago

Zedshaw, you win coolest guy on the Internet today. Your response may have made Thanksgiving bearable for me by reminding me that good does exist in this black-friday-world.

Thank you.

ronreiter• 13 years ago

I love you

benmorris• 13 years ago

Live and learn. Luckily developers are in demand these days.

yangtheman• 13 years ago

Hey man, I've been there (two failed startups). Whatever you learned during that time should be valuable assets/skills in many startups. Hang in there. You gotta be there for your family.

mgkimsal• 13 years ago

I appreciate your kind words to the OP, but... is that really true?

"Whatever you learned during that time should be valuable assets/skills in many startups"

I can not imagine for one moment failing in a business, taking a job at a startup, and having the owner(s) or others say "well... you've tried this before and failed - what's your input on XYZ?" In fact, I essentially went through this years ago, and could not find anyone who ever put any stock or value in my failures.

In one particular case it was very maddening because I watched the owners make several of the same mistakes I'd made just 2 years earlier, which ended up in me folding my company. Less than a year after I joined, they laid off half the workforce, then folded later. Try as I might to help in some way (not to take over, but to keep my job!), my previous experience of failure was not a valuable asset to that company.

Maybe it was just all the situations I was in aren't "the norm", but I just don't see it actually happening.

lostlogin• 13 years ago

It's not quite the same, but I encourage those around me to share their failures and screw ups. Particularly more junior staff. Often what they have done confuses senior staff and everyone can learn. A culture that encourages openness is particularly helpful when times are bad and things are heading south. Most aren't as open as me, and this isn't business failure (more like technical mistakes and poor decision making) but it seems relevant.

philjackson• 13 years ago

Where are you? How can people here get a hold of your CV?

jayrparro• 13 years ago

have faith! keep up!

mufumbo• 13 years ago

keep up keeping on!

Altan• 13 years ago

I can't even imagine the pain you're going through. I know it's tough to think rationally now, but if theres one thing that'd help is that you need to write down and memorize everything that went wrong so you never do it again once you get your second chance (everyone deserves a good second chance).

Hang in there man, you'll be surprised how many good people are out there that are willing to help. Never stop asking, never give in, always remember what you're fighting for. You'll be in my thoughts

michaelochurch2• 13 years ago

It's a really fucking shitty game for most of people who play. Ruined lives are pretty rare. (I'm doing well, a couple years later.) But most people get far less out of their time than they'd get in a conventional career.

Even the "low-risk" option of the startup job is way too risky for what little upside remains (at equity slices around 0.05%). Regular companies mentor and, when they have to lay people off, provide severance and positive reference (they'll often work with the recruiters who placed you and say good things). Many of these startups use fake "performance" issues to avoid the image problem of an honest layoff, and to fire people for free. (Banks and hedge funds just admit shit's tough, but these startups have to pretend they're always hiring, even when they're cutting. In other words, they prioritize their image over that of those they're letting go-- when they most need the help.) Getting fired with no severance and no reference is, in many ways, as bad as a startup failure. In some ways, it's worse. Startup failure has more short-term financial pain but, 3 years later, you can talk about it without fearing stigma (especially if you weren't a sole founder).

Paul Graham played the game once and won. It's hard to call it pure luck because, if you read On Lisp, he's obviously a very smart man and was, while active in Lisp, a clear 10x-er. However, there are a lot of people just as smart as he is, who end up ruining their lives in this game.

You're not alone, and I'm sorry to hear about it.

Where are you located? Have you considered Austin, Portland, or Baltimore? Those places have much lower COL and you'll make 80-90% of your Bay Area salary.

movebits5• 13 years ago

Sustainable startup career... hopefully, it exists.

smokeyj• 13 years ago

I'd rather fail than never have tried. Just remember people still love you for who you are.

tomasien• 13 years ago

If you're really done, don't listen to the people saying "don't give up" - give up, and get back on your feet, whatever that takes. Then, get back on the horse when and if you're ready - I just came off a year of re-building my life after a failed startup, and I'm in such an insanely better position to start my next company now than I was then, but it's only been made possible by the fact that the moment we realized the funding was not going to happen, we gave up.

We had a shitty 4 months, and it could be longer for you it could be shorter, but go through it and come out the other side. My new startup is now about to close funding, but it only happened because we put ourselves in the position to succeed, not by continuing to try to force something that wasn't going to happen.

Knowing when you're dead is the first step.

movebits5• 13 years ago

good advice, iteration works :)

cpt1138• 13 years ago

Sorry to hear about your misfortune. I have hesitated going all in because of Barbara Sher's infomercial saying "you don't go shopping for new clothes naked."

Cyberis• 13 years ago

Risk has its rewards.... but also its disasters, which is why it's called "risk." Before taking it you have to consider the cost of failure. If you can't afford the failure, don't take the risk. That being said, you're in a tough place and hopefully zedshaw actually has a list and not a bunch of hot air. I'd take him up on it and get something to provide income. BTW, while failing seems to be harder on us men, failing doesn't mean your not a man, but failing to take responsibility does speak to your manhood. So get up and get going.

djuggler• 13 years ago

You aren't alone. And it gets better. Just don't do anything terminal.

Neolis• 13 years ago

Keep calm and carry on! Do not give up! We will be there for you.

scheezer• 13 years ago

http://www.quora.com/What-Does-It-Feel-Like-to-X/What-does-i...

lnanek2• 13 years ago

Well, tech jobs are pretty easy to come by, especially with no home so you can live wherever the job is. Honestly, I wouldn't want to do a startup if I had kids anyway. I'd rather work a 9-5 with a regular income so I'd have money to take care of them and time after work to be with them and raise them. So this may all be for the best.

adventured• 13 years ago

I won't say you should do X Y or Z. There's no way I can know what your best course of action is going forward.

I'll just say, given the only thing that really matters is your family, what you do from here on out will dictate what kind of man you are, rather than the fact that your company failed.

vertis• 13 years ago

I'm going to echo a few other people here. You need to share more details (Location, etc)

Zed Shaw may be the most famous, but there is a bunch of us that can do things to help.

On the off chance you're in Australia (or if you just want a someone to talk to about this), feel free to email me at me@vertis.io

vellum• 13 years ago

You should take Zed up on his offer. If you want to be entrepreneurial again, you can be, after you’ve built up your bankroll. When you’re broke with dependents, you don’t have the emotional ability to make good decisions.

w0rd-driven2• 13 years ago

Very good points. Just recently being married has me in a strange provider mode where it wants to reign as long in my life. 5 dependents vs 1 is an even tougher game.

Stability is king but it ultimately comes down to happiness and joy. The path the op is on doesn't seem happy and I can speak to that personally. Everyone needs a reboot now and then. I don't expect most startups to succeed 100% of the time but the successful founders keep at it until they find that balance of the right problem to solve and the right attitude to persevere.

steven777400• 13 years ago

I wish I had something more helpful to say. But I appreciate this post very much. I appreciate first of all the strength and courage it takes to admit a difficult situation. And secondly, I appreciate your willingness to stand up to the confirmation and survivorship bias that, by definition, permeates the new-business world. Thank you. I wish you the very best and sincerely hope you quickly find your feet again.

luistroche• 13 years ago

Hang in there. At this time is important for you to get back on your feet as soon as possible. Find a job and be there for your family. About the foreclosure: did you talk to a lawyer? can you delay the process a little longer?. About your company: can you share some information about your visions?. What do you think went wrong?. My best regards for you and your family.

fastisslow• 13 years ago

lz 加油

Gigablah• 13 years ago

I'll translate:

lz = 楼主 ("lou zhu"), which means "original poster" (literally "landlord")

加油 ("jia you") = "persevere"

anthony_barker• 13 years ago

jia - add you - oil

JacobIrwin• 13 years ago

Stay strong. Another statistic - in favor of the world's need for talented engineers! Maybe not bound to be a self-made man, that's all.

joshmn• 13 years ago

I'm mobile now so excuse the brevity.

If you're in the Twin Cities I'd like to extend a hand in you running on two legs. I'd also like to help out giving your little ones a memorable Christmas. No strings attached.

I can get you in front of some bigger names here and get you interviews, depending on what you do. tbese

Email is josh@josh.mn

zacharycohn• 13 years ago

Class act, as always Josh.

tigersharktopus• 13 years ago

Hey bud,

Hitting the bottom after a long fall is the hardest thing you can go through in life. A year ago I was working on my own stupid startup, ran out of money, ran out of credit, wasn't sure there would be another blue sky in my life. Everyone has ups and downs, its the hardest thing to go through.

However, life is not over. It may feel like it, and you may even want it to be. But YOU are still writing YOUR story -- do you want to be the guy who fell and didn't get back up? Fuck no. You want to be the guy who had nothing left and no matter how far down the rabbit hole you go, you find a way back out. You want to be a success. You want it all. You'll have it all someday. Is that day today? No. But because you're still alive you have the chance to make it a reality.

So get back up, find work, pay off bills, and you'll be back in the game before you know it. You're intelligent, smart, driven. Remember -- do not let failure dictate who you are. You're not a failure, failure is simply something that happens to all of us. Learn from failure and let it compliment your decision making in the future. You'll be wiser and you'll learn from this mistake.

Good luck and I'll see you around, Tiger

fletchowns• 13 years ago

You have a decent enough point you're trying to get across, but the 'bud' and 'tiger' really cheapen it. I mean, you're responding to a grown man and father of (almost) 4 here, not some pre-teen kid.

philwebster• 13 years ago

"Tiger" is referring to himself (see username), but you're right about "bud". I hate being called bud.

vasundhar• 13 years ago

Hey Buddy,

It happens to many, It happened to me. Entrepreneurship as we all know is not easy, if you are financially unstable don't think the world is Goog to end day after tomorrow. It doesn't and shouldn't. Get a relief, get your skills tuned, get employed somewhere and work on your passion and if things work out you can be / will be a success story. However don't Loose hope and passion for what you do. Beat wishes .

rjohnk• 13 years ago

While not completely analogous, when I graduated with a 4 year degree, I didn't know what to do in life. Went back to grad school - then exited - still lost. Two hospital stays with a wife and young child. No job. Life sucked. If your religious, cling to that. If not, cling to your wife and kids. THEY are the important thing.

I am religious, so I will be praying for you that everything will turn out. Keep us posted, man.

pbreit• 13 years ago

If you have any technical skills, you should immediately go get a good paying job.

fiatjaf2• 13 years ago

Seems like a troll.

yen223• 13 years ago

The kind of troll that tricks people into becoming decent human beings...?

asadlionpk• 13 years ago

we need trolls like this then.

mcormier• 13 years ago

I agree themanthatfell currently has 1154 karma, but he got the majority of it from this post and the account was only created 7 days ago. You're getting unfairly down voted.

n1kh1lp• 13 years ago

Why all the negativity? I am guessing he doesn't want to reveal his identity and hence created a new account.

fiatjaf2• 13 years ago

Yes. Plus his story is also too disastrous, he does not matter to point to possible solutions for his situations. He seems like he is just stating that he is in the worst situation in the world and desiring that people feel sorry for him. It's strange.

paulrademacher• 13 years ago

You'll be downvoted, but that was my reaction as well. This is just like mystartuphas30daystolive. It happens all the time on Reddit. No harm done... usually.

kennethtilton2• 13 years ago

The interesting thing to this old fart as a newcomer to HN is that it really does not make much difference whether or not he is a troll. Unless of course he opens that PayPal account.

What I am fascinated by is the unquestioning support from so many. It speaks to a community with a strong "we're all in this together vibe".

Whether or not the OP is a troll or a psych grad doing research does not change what came after, and what came after to me is the big story here. my2.

weishgoname• 13 years ago

it will be alright! there is always a way out. Good Luck

smtddr• 13 years ago

Dude, you got a paypal donation link somewhere? Just put it in your HN profile if ya want.

arbuge• 13 years ago

Find a job for now. (Indeed and Linkedin aren't half bad for that nowadays; there may be better more specific resources in your industry also.) Get back on your own two feet. The rest will take care of itself later. It always does.

johnnyg• 13 years ago

If you are in Houston, johnny@cpap.com.

Give us a paypal link and we'll gap you.

JesseAldridge• 13 years ago

I worked on my own stuff for a long time, trying to live off next to nothing. It didn't work and eventually I ran out of money.

I got a job as a programmer-grunt. I saved up basically everything I made. After two years my bank account hit $50K and I quit and started working on my own stuff again. Life is so much easier now that I have some cash in the bank.

Burning through credit cards seems like a bad path. It's just not necessary. I remember being afraid I would get addicted to easy money in the corporate world. I didn't. The lifestyle was nice, but the lack of freedom made it easy to quit.

Now, I don't have a family to support. That would of course make things harder. I just wanted to strongly recommend the nest-egg approach to anyone grappling with finances.

limaoscarjuliet• 13 years ago

Do you need some real, immediate help, as in food and other necessities? Do not have millions to spare, but can help with some things. How can I contact you?

err4nt2• 13 years ago

Keep your head up dude! I haven't been where you are but I have been in a position where I had no clue how my rent would get paid or how my lights would stay on.

Reading this hits close to home for me. You are are more than the sum of your assets. You are more than a set of skills, and ultimately you still have the ability to go out and conquer. Lean on family, lean on friends, and once you get through this never forget where you've been and help others in the same predicament.

I can't offer much, but if you need a few bucks for a couple bags of groceries email look@mewhenimtalkingtoyou.com and I can send some Paypal your way. No strings attached.

hakkasan• 13 years ago

"The ultimate measure of a man is not where he stands in moments of comfort and convenience, but where he stands at times of challenge and controversy"

You do what you need to get and your family through this. That's only only game that's important. The rest of this is just icing. If you are in Europe or the Bay Area feel free to reach out to me @kzhu. I'll help if I can.

toobulkeh• 13 years ago

best of luck. If you want to fall back on security, I personally have good connections in the stable large companies in the South East US. If you need a stable income for awhile and are willing, please let me know.

wesgarrison• 13 years ago

If you're in Kansas City, my company name is databasically and my first name is wes and I use a dot com. Shoot, if you're not in KC; email me and let me know how I can help.

l0c0b0x2• 13 years ago

Pretty sure I am the opposite of everyone here.

I am one like you with a wife and 3 Kids, that at one point couldn't afford bills/payments (exactly during this holiday season), Dec/January and February were the coldest and weakest I have ever felt as a man. Look at your wife and kids for an extremely good amount of energy and inspiration to go on and fight for them.

During these tough times, nothing comes better than believing in that 'one thing' that will always be true, and that is the love for your family. That's what helped me.

Somewhat cliche now, but it is true: It will get better.

l0c0b0x2• 13 years ago

...and of course, if you're in Washington State ( l o c o b o x @ that google domain for email )

jroseattle3• 13 years ago

Same here -- wife, 2 kids, house and in Seattle. More than happy to try to help a colleague.

vik_psiphilabs• 13 years ago

I guess you stuck on to your dreams a bit too long. Well, we all do, that's the point. Nobody can tell you that's a wrong thing, even if it sometimes seems logical in the real world.

Well, if I step into your shoes it might take me a while to listen to the suggestions of all these people who are genuinely trying to help you. Your brain just shuts off and cant think straight. You need to find a way to somehow let it out. Cant say go backpack for a few days because you have a family to take care of...but try talking to friendly strangers, do something you haven't tried before(in a good sense) that doesn't cost money, just somehow get everything out of your system, try unplugging even if its for 2-3 days and then come back and read the comments again. I'm sure you'll see things much more clear. The help is already here!

That was as honest and close I can get to feel what you might be going through. Having said that, its always easier said than done. God bless you! Dont forget to comment to this thread once you are back up and strong! :)

brianbreslin• 13 years ago

Trust me you are not the opposite of most people here. This site thrives on "survivor bias" and making it seem like its all rosy. If you're in Miami, I can help you get a job in startups.

ssfermoy• 13 years ago

A very brave thing to write. Don't judge your self on how the dice fell. By just having tried you've done more than most people ever will.

31reasons2• 13 years ago

I don't care if I get down voted. But if a person already has 3 kids and another on the way, why would you spend all your savings on a startup ? even if you run out of savings, why would you max out your credit ? There is something called calculated risk.

marshray• 13 years ago

Sometimes I think I envy people who can think like you do.

But I find people who know what it means to be irrational are far more interesting.

31reasons2• 13 years ago

Frankly there are many ways you can be irrational. Your thoughts, your actions, your creations. But don't do that at the expense of your family. If you want to take too much risk, don't start a family, heck you can even stop at 1 kid to manage risk.

artwork3• 13 years ago

The fact that he has 3+ kids and a wife seems to be relevant now that the start up has failed. So, it should have definitely been taken into consideration at the beginning.

lgieron• 13 years ago

You forfeit the freedom to be irrational when you have a child, let alone four of them.

bmelton2• 13 years ago

Calculated risks, no matter how number of, or how precise the calculations, often still fail. The idea that all risk can be eliminated is a fallacy, as there is literally always a risk of failure unless you're already independently wealthy.

beagle3• 13 years ago

Even if you are independently wealthy, there's risk of failure: Health reasons, financial reasons beyond your control (e.g. currency hyperinflation; draconian tax measures as happened in Greece and Argentina and will likely happen in other places as well; Significant loss of finances to fraud, as in the Bernie Madoff case)

It's never possible to eliminate all risk. However, there's a difference between taking a calculated risk, and being reckless -- and reckless people more often than not believe they were taking a calculated risk. This is especially true of people with gambler personality.

(Not making an opinion about original poster - I have no info to base an opinion on. Making a general statement)

sunseb• 13 years ago

I agree. :-(

avenger1236• 13 years ago

It's always easy to criticize from the outside. I don't know the OP's details enough to make a judgement like yours.

cam_l• 13 years ago

It's not like you have another life to hedge against. what sort of life have you led if you have never pushed or tried or taken a risk. is it riskier for your kids to grow up thinking life is playing it safe.

adrr• 13 years ago

People make stupid mistakes when chasing after their dreams. Especially when heavily influenced by survivor biased that is rampant in tech media. Its the failure that make you smart in the long run.

mildtrepidation• 13 years ago

My thoughts as well. It sucks that this failure happened -- failure does happen, and it sucks more the more people are affected by it -- but putting your kids in a position like this? Your spouse has the choice to support you, or to at least try to talk you out of either doing what you're doing or dumping all of your assets into it. Your kids don't have the understanding to know the difference or understand the situation.

Hindsight is 20/20, but people seem too often to forget that foresight can go a long way towards saving you from having to stare backwards at a disaster. Hopefully the OP learns from this and makes his future failures (because we all fail, and just doing it once would be an incredibly rare feat) more palatable to himself and his family.

porter• 13 years ago

Because people who take these risks change the world. Failure just goes with the territory sometimes. Without entrepreneurs, you'd have life filled with many more daily aches and pains. We need to celebrate these folks. They are the real heroes of society.

avenger1236• 13 years ago

You are a husband, and a father. To me, that is never failure, no matter what happens.

Keep it together for your family. Your kids and wife need you right now. You are the pillar of the house and if you stand tall your strength will make the rest of your family emotionally better off.

So you may lose the house. Happens to a lot of people.

Whatever money you have right now or can get, keep it. Stop paying any of your bills, except the necessities.

Who knows how many weeks, months it will be until you are kicked out. Stay in your house until you are forced to leave. When you do have to leave, go get a rental.

Go find your self whatever jobs you can get to get some income coming in. This could be delivering pizza, snow romoval, mowing lawns, etc..

While your doing this, find another software job.

None of this is easy but see this as another start up. This time its literally to start you back up again.

Remember, you are in the States, no matter what happens, your wife and kids will never go hungry. You will provide for them no matter what.

dsarch• 13 years ago

Amazing comment !

I do not know the level of despair this man has been going through to, but I'm sure this kind of comment will make him feel better.

Thank you for your kindness, world really need more people like Zed and like you.

Michael_Murray2• 13 years ago

I'm on my 5th company. The first 3 failed so miserably that there's not even a crater from where they imploded. The fourth had one of the founders usurp control and steal >$1M from the rest of the team and we were left exactly where you are - tapping 401Ks, taking our savings to $0 (and in some cases <<<< $0) and with terrified wives/kids/families/pets.

The 5th hit $10M in revenue in 3 years (completely bootstrapped).

Everyone else has great advice here - I just wanted you to know that there are others who have been where you are.

Much as everyone else expressed... if there's anything I can do, please reach out. mmurray / at / MAD Security.

alex_c• 13 years ago

The first 3 failed so miserably that there's not even a crater from where they imploded.

Beautiful way to put it.

Michael_Murray2• 13 years ago

Thanks. I watched my partners struggle with wives and kids. Me, I only had a wife and cats... which made it easier in some ways, and harder in others....

wallzz• 13 years ago

pets ...hahahhahaha

nell• 13 years ago

Dude, What's your skillset?

victortrac• 13 years ago

If you're in Austin, NYC, or SF and want to work for a decent company, I may be able to help. victor@victortrac.com.

BalancedThought• 13 years ago

Hey Man, Husband and Father. I have a large amount of respect for you. My only suggestion is to apologize to your wife and family for not being able to provide now. The love and forgiveness that you receive from them will lift a weight off you that you may not know is there.

Also, remember, you aren't the first Man, Husband or Father to be in this situation and that you are not alone. At this point, make sure not to be prideful and accept the gifts of known and unknown people who want to help you out. None of us made it to where we are without the help of family or the kind words of strangers.

This too shall pass and you will come out even stronger. I am in the New York area and depending on what you do, I might be able to help introduce you to people. You can reach me at rwoodruf at gmail dot com.

err4nt2• 13 years ago

Man you're making me tear up here. Guys more often base their SELF-worth on their usefulness in their career than women, so when a man fails in his work or can't provide he often feels worthless as a human being. This is a FALLACY and it's not even true for a second. OP said he wasn't even a man anymore and that's heartbreaking to me. We all need a support net, every single one of us!

reinder• 13 years ago

Hang in there! It's gonna be okay. If you ever need a listening ear, now or in the future, feel free to email me and we'll call. Also, eat well, sleep well, get some fresh air & walks and spend time with the family. Coping with difficult times is easier that way.

mbesto• 13 years ago

I feel you man. I know very few "successful" people who haven't gone through what you're going through right now (to varying degrees). You're not alone - http://www.techdisruptive.com/2013/10/29/common-themes-despa...

huherto• 13 years ago

Somehow we tend to think that all it takes is hard work. But there are many aspects of building a successful business. Sometimes we can risk a little too much. Not everybody makes it, not every body has the needed support, not everybody has the tolerance to risk. It is not only about making your dreams happen, you also need to know when to fold.

I wish you the best. The best advice I can give you is to hang in there with your life. Strengthen your relationships, life may suck now, but it will get better, just hang in there, one day at a time. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_Stockdale

themanthatfell• 13 years ago

My wife cried reading all of your comments. I guess we were looking for some sign that someone somewhere is pulling for us. During the first hour this post was up I hovered over the delete more than once. It doesn't seem right to bring an entire ecosystem of ambitious and wonderful people a story of failure. I guess I learned that hitting delete would be worse. Thank you from the 5.3 of us.

AndrewKemendo2• 13 years ago

These stories should be required reading. To that end the community would benefit massively from you documenting it.

Just as there are Journals of Negative results [1][2] so too should there be a journal of failed startups. Your detailing of what caused the failures could save thousands of man hours and potentially someone falling into the same traps.

Goal #1 for you right now is to get your family in order and steel the troops for tough times ahead as you get back on your feet.

In short order though you should start simply documenting the process that led to your company failing. Not only will you learn from it but it will help others.

If you are in the DC area don't hesitate to reach out to myself and my family. We have kiddos the same ages as yours so they would have a ball.

[1] http://www.jnrbm.com/ [2] http://www.jnr-eeb.org/index.php/jnr

Killah911• 13 years ago

I'm sure that would be nice to have. I'm can relate to OP, I'm out of pretty my all of my savings and trying to think of ways to shutter my co. I already have four kids. When a friend of mine said to me, "perhaps we should disect this failure", the zing from that made it all that much worse.

I'm sure there's plenty of lessons to be learned from failed startups, but even 5 years after my first failed startup, I still don't like thinking about it, least of all documenting what went wrong.

Now, fortunately I do have a venture that's been somewhat of a runaway success, in spite of me. The only truth I can relate do what you must and then get lucky. There isn't some secret method to success(despite what your methodical brain tells you).

It may be survivor bias or whatever, but I still don't like harping on my failures. I know the severe guilty feeling that I get knowing that I not only risked my own but my family's well being possibly, but then again, at least I tried. Life's tough, live to fight another day & survive long enough till you get lucky. I for one am not looking to revisit my failure any more than I already do, it's too traumatic to relive.

__alexs• 13 years ago

Just as there are Journals of Negative results [1][2] so too should there be a journal of failed startups.

We used to have something like that.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fucked_Company

redschell• 13 years ago

You're always welcome. You've got a long road ahead of you, but that's not a bad thing. That means plenty of opportunities. Work hard, take advantage of the awesome opportunities in this thread, and push for others. If you don't ask, you don't get, so don't be shy.

I'd wish you good luck, but you don't need it. It sounds like you've already got a wonderful family. That makes you a pretty lucky guy when you think about it.

Just keep your head up, and know that you've got a lot of people rooting for you.

yogo2• 13 years ago

Don't feel bad about bringing a story of failure. You're keeping it real and there's nothing more valuable than a dose of reality sometimes.

peterarmstrong• 13 years ago

I got laid off when my son was 2 months old and my wife was on maternity leave. That was about 9 years ago. You can pull through this.

(My solution was to relocate countries, from Victoria, Canada to Silicon Valley. We did this in 2 weeks. Now, ironically, I'm doing a startup, but living back in Victoria.)

If you're a programmer and a US citizen, you have won the talent + nationality lottery. (I'm the former, but not the latter.) If you're both, realize how fortunate you truly are.

One course of action is to...

1. Move to Silicon Valley if you're not there right now. It's a boom, and it sounds like you don't have much to lose at the moment.

2. Go be an early employee at some startup that is funded. Maybe you'll get lucky and it's the next Dropbox or Snapchat. Or maybe you'll just earn good money in a great climate.

3. Consider doing another startup once you have savings or can bootstrap doing consulting. However, bootstrapping takes a LONG time and requires serious commitment.

Good luck! Peter

jf• 13 years ago

Please do reach out to Zed Shaw. His offer is genuine and I can't think of a better person to offer you some help.

movebits5• 13 years ago

reach out, this thread has support

davedx• 13 years ago

Hey man, just had a baby daughter myself and I know what the feeling of responsibility is like for the parents in the family. Hang in there. The job market for IT people is huge right now. You can turn this around.

easytiger• 13 years ago

Why don't you describe what you were trying to monetise? Possibly someone here can see an opportunity in it?

NicoJuicy• 13 years ago

Failures are the things you learn from the most. What have you been trying to do the last months with your company?

Perhaps some of us might help :)

jroseattle3• 13 years ago

Seriously....reach out to everyone, including me. Not sure in which part of the US you're located, but I seem to know people in lots of places. Let us help, you may end up helping us right back one day.

jroseattle3• 13 years ago

To the O.P. - please post a follow-up to let us know if things improve. Happy holidays.

d0m• 13 years ago

Nothing wrong in taking a job and slowly working on your things on the side..

dennisgorelik3• 13 years ago

You are in an unpleasant situation, but not in a tragedy by no means. To put things into perspective: imagine you have successful company but got pancreatic cancer.

Your to-do list is pretty straightforward:

1) Put your failed startup aside.

2) Find a job ASAP.

3) Try to save your house. Your family would need it. Beg your bank to give you ~extra month until your next paycheck.

4) In about a year you may return to thinking about another startup. Take another year or two to think it over, accumulate some funds, do some part-time research and then jump into your new startup again... or not. Being an employee until you retire is also a good choice.

gxespino2• 13 years ago

I disagree about the house. Lose it. Strategic foreclosure is 100x better than continuing to pay for something you're going to lose anyway. Ride it out as long as you can, save what you can from the mortgage payments, then move into a rental when it's time to go.

13hours• 13 years ago

Just curious, because other comments also mention staying as long as you can and then getting a rental : wouldn't the first part mess up your credit record so badly that you couldn't get a rental? Here in South Africa I'm pretty sure almost no landlord will rent you something with a bad credit record like that (having gone through the process of renting a place and seeing all the proof they require that you'll be able to pay). Probably because it's very hard to get rid of tenants once they're in though, so you have to make sure they're ok before they move in. Is it different in the States?

Same thing with employing someone here, you have to be very sure they'll fit, because it's VERY hard to fire someone.

dennisgorelik3• 13 years ago

1) Generally rent is more expensive than owning the house of similar size (in SF and NYC it's probably not the case though).

2) Moving big family is stressful and time consuming.

3) Generally it's better for your karma if you pay your debts.

If the situation is desperate then foreclosure could make sense. But healthy software developer in the US is hardly in desperate situation even if his startup just failed.

Shinden• 13 years ago

read the book Millionare fastlane. just google it it's available via electronic book version, Within that book it will tell you where you went wrong and hopefully it will steer you in the right direction.

dennisgorelik3• 13 years ago

Please share some more details - it would help us to give you more targeted advice:

1) What was the mission of your failed startup?

2) What was your personal role in it?

3) What city are you in?

michaeltsai• 13 years ago

this would be great

hkbarton• 13 years ago

hey, it's not the end of the world, maybe you will gain huge if you found it's very hard this time. Don't give up!

brianmcdonough2• 13 years ago

I'm based in Santa Monica. If you're in the area and I'll buy you lunch, give you a pep talk and help get you back on your feet in any way I can.

jason_slack4• 13 years ago

I have failed on 5 different ventures. Now going to try a 6th.

I am in the Bay Area. If we share a common grocery store. I'd be happy to send you a gift card for some groceries.

bdcravens• 13 years ago

How are you still eating and have a roof if you failed five times? Did you take gigs on the side, or get back on your feet via work in between ventures?

jason_slack4• 13 years ago

it hasn't always been easy. I have taken contract work when things are slow or I am struggling to achieve the goals for the startup. I have also taken time off between and worked for companies. My wife has always worked full-time too.

jason_slack4• 13 years ago

EDIT: Some of the ideas, for the curious, not in correct order

1. I thought that I could use Trolltech QT, when the green phone was coming out, to write apps, etc. The green phone never took off and was horrible to program with

2. I was writing backup software, OSX, successfully. Took on a partner for sales and he essentially killed everything. Sold the source code after a few years of it sitting idle for a few macBook's and misc hardware.

3. Started a 501c3 for storing information and could never get to writing the product with all the administration duties, compliance issues, etc.

4. Started an ISP back in 2003-2005 when I lived in a small town in NY. It was pretty successful. I broke even with all the bandwidth expenses, racks of hardware, etc. Eventually sold for very cheap when I just couldn't keep up with the company that had been in town for ever.

5. I bought a popular text editor and worked on it for years and just couldn't get it to where I wanted it. I always had more to do and just couldn't get versions out. I still have this code and consider getting back to it some day.

chipotle_coyote• 13 years ago

I thought your name looked vaguely familiar, then read bullet point 5 there. This editor wouldn't have happened to be Pepper, would it? I always wondered what happened to it after it had been bought. (I may have bought a license for Pepper; I know I had one for its BeOS predecessor Pe.)

mikekij2• 13 years ago

You're getting a lot of this in this post, but I'd be happy to connect you to my network as well. Email me at mkijewski (gmail).

mikekij2• 13 years ago

p.s. I have a fractional child as well. I'm familiar with the stress.

rpddh9• 13 years ago

pls put up a paypal acc and we can all chip in..

r0ash3• 13 years ago

You are a generous, thanks for adding trust in the world. But please dont fall a victim of emotional-blackmailing. If you have some leads or contact share with him if you dont, I would not recommend you give him money, his account is too new here on HN and he 500+ karma already. So be safe and help people in need, no one like the feeling of being robbed. Thanks once again.

avenger1236• 13 years ago

The pot calling the kettle black

mililani• 13 years ago

Hey man, sorry to hear. I really hope things work out for you. I really do. But, even if things go south for a long time, I sort of envy you. At least you've tried. I haven't done shit. I keep wanting to try. At least I can say at the end of my life, "You know what? I wasn't a success, but I followed my dreams and passions."

But, I still hope your situation will be better several years from now.

antonius• 13 years ago

Never too late to try. I'm beginning to figure this out now.

mtsmith85• 13 years ago

Hey There. 138 comments in, it may seem trite, but if you're in NYC, please shoot me an e-mail (info in my profile). I'm hiring across the board; even if it's just freelance to get you back on your feet, we can work something out. Please e-mail.

abhididdigi• 13 years ago

If you are in India, shoot an email at abhididdigi[at]gmail.com.

kennethtilton2• 13 years ago

I pulled out of my dive before going broke, but not by much. Licked my wounds, got a job, built up my savings for three years and now can try again, this time much wiser (and less risky) for the experience. Survival is success, I was told early on, and...yep.

wf• 13 years ago

I'm late to the party. But I'm also willing to help you. If you're technical and need a recommendation for a job in the Midwest shoot me an email and maybe in my limited way I can help you. Good luck!

SteliE• 13 years ago

Really sorry to hear the situation you're in. I've shared my story of failure and entrepreneurial depression here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NrUw4S76jFQ

A few people have told me that it helped them in tough times.

I have a small child and another on the way so I can only guess how you feel right now. Entrepreneurship is hard. Ping me at steli@close.io if you ever need someone to listen.

abbottry• 13 years ago

Can you offer your general location? Might help those of us with connections that might offer employment opportunities you'd be interested in.

jval• 13 years ago

Hey dude, please post up a BTC address so we can send you some cash to tide you over.

gigq• 13 years ago

Yes please do, I'd also contribute.

sidcool2• 13 years ago

You will bounce back. Let us know a Bitcoin wallet where we can chip in whatever is in our ability.

sidcool2• 13 years ago

Please do update us when you are better. We would love to know that a fellow Hacker is doing well.

Shoot me an email at sid_cool1234(at)yahoo.co.in and I can see what I can do for you.

fygwtclub• 13 years ago

I consider myself a lot less Smarter than people here on HN so I never comment. But your 70 words made me.

'Manthatfell' - You are a very brave person to write something up like this very openly. But, If a Man of the Family loses hope it tears that family apart. Trust me. I observed this very closely. HN Community is so strong, kind and supportive.

You already found a lot helping hands. You are now 'Manthatfellbutgotup'. Just start Running..

binarysolo• 13 years ago

OP, please let us know what rough geographical area you are located. This will allow some of us to at least give you some sort of referral to work; I can help out in the SF Bay Area but seeing the responses there are plenty better positioned who can lend aid and support to you.

Fight hard and good luck.

iamabraham• 13 years ago

You're more like the rest of us then most will admit. Be strong. Take care of your family. Good luck.

alsobrsp• 13 years ago

You can't win if you don't play.

Most of my business ideas don't make it out of the box. One did well enough, about $100k over 6 years, now we are being sued for trademark infringement. Bogus according to several lawyers, but no money to fight it.

Shit happens, fall back, regroup, fight another day.

At this point you do what needs to be done for the family. Take care of them and they will take care of you. Then see if you can figure out what happened and try a new idea.

aioprisan• 13 years ago

If you're in Boston and if there's anything that I can do, listening or some freelance work, we're always looking for talented people at Splitzee.com.

Also, full disclosure, I am the CTO of splitzee.com, a group fundraising platform. I wanted to share the link so that if anyone wants to create a collection for this guy, please let me know so I can make sure that there are no fees and that he gets every penny. Splitzee is a fundraising platform that can be used for any cause, and this type of fundraiser is what we see our site being used for all the time. I don't want my intentions to be misconstrued, I would love to see any collection set up so I can pitch in a few dollars, I just hadn't seen one, and really do think Splitzee would be a great choice. All the best!

r0ash3• 13 years ago

My 2 cents would be to just focus on what services you can offer rightaway with your skill set and grab whatever leads you could.

#1 follow what zedshaw is offering to you and #2 if you think craigslist could help you bring some leads let me know what you can do and I will try to post ads for your service offering for you. #3 if you want to try earning (passive or something) online via some website, I can buy you domain + hosting + any script #4 [removed the text where I offered you monetary help, you must proof you are not a troll]

PhasmaFelis• 13 years ago

To the OP: Thank you for sharing this. I'm sure it wasn't easy. I hope that some of the many folks offering help can give you a leg up.

To everyone else: I like HN, but I often wish that it really was Hacker News instead of Startup News, and this is one reason why. I worked for a startup for a while, until it folded; now I'm maintaining servers at a university library, making mid-five digits a year, and I'm as happy as I've ever been. I've got stability, I've got low stress levels, I work 40 hours a week and then relax at home or with my friends; and I've got enough money to live comfortably, save for retirement, and have a few luxuries besides.

We need to stop telling aspiring coders that they're not worth shit unless they're taking risks, burning with ambition, dreaming of being billionaires. Some people really enjoy that road, and that's okay, but sometimes taking the safe and easy path is a perfectly fine and noble thing to do.

charlieflowers• 13 years ago

It's true. None of us (in the "first world" at least) are truly short on money. What we're short on is time (life is short). The wisest advice I ever found on Hacker News was to live each day such that (1) it is enjoyable today, and (2) it also improves your prospects for tomorrow. If you neglect either one of those, you're screwing up and you'll eventually regret it.

thenomad• 13 years ago

Definitely.

"Lifestyle business" or even "enjoyable job" are not dirty phrases.

pjungwir• 13 years ago

I don't see anyone who's mentioned Portland, OR yet. If you're around there, I'd be happy to talk: pj@illuminatedcomputing.com. My startup failed two years ago, with a homemaker wife, two kids 2 & 0, no health insurance, and almost no savings. Pretty scary. I've been freelancing since then and it's a huge relief to be out of that place. You have more support than you know!

kellyphong76• 13 years ago

Dont want to hurt OP but seems like he is a troll, he just joined 7 days ago and made 500+ karma.

Would happy if he prove me wrong by writing in detail what he did and how did he failed, sympathetic people will be ready to rush money to him including myself, but dont want to be a victim of emotional blackmailing.

mattdeboard• 13 years ago

...said the 23-hour-old account.

artwork3• 13 years ago

How does this change the original fact? Ad hominem.

vinlimyh• 13 years ago

They say there are dip and rise. Only people brace through the dip, shall rise. As dip is the time where many give up. That say, a personal opinion, it would be best to rectify the current situation and prepare for a come back. As a an old Chinese saying goes, 留得青山在，那怕没柴烧。It means, as long as you are here to stay, there will always be a chance.

I guess my point here is, do not give up, but rectify current situation first. I'm sure @zedshaw does provide good helps there.

Good Luck. Blessing from Malaysia.

kureikain• 13 years ago

Hey, I was ever in same situation like you, with no help. My dad would blame me. My mom cried out. I cannot come back home. Leading to my homelessness for several weeks.

Now, I live in San Jose. And Thanksgiving is closer, if you happen to live in San Jose, contact me kurei at my website: axcoto.com. I can give a hand, drive you around if you need, and a place to sleep for several days if need.

The company that I'm working for also is hiring PHP Dev. I can referred you to the CEO.

megablast• 13 years ago

With 3 kids and another on the way, this is a risk you should never have taken. Even when I started, a single bloke, I started my company in my spare time working full time, and built up a huge safety net before quitting.

This is more a warning for others who think it is easy, or a fun thing to do. Don't.

avenger1236• 13 years ago

You know what, this has been stated a couple of times now.

Your point is valid but every person's situation is different.

And frankly, its a moot point now. The dude is where he is at. I'm sure he knows better than any of us ever will what went wrong and the risks (good and bad) he took.

jaxn5• 13 years ago

You have no idea what risk he should or shouldn't have taken. I don't know if you have kids or not, but as a parent you have to both care for your kids and also provide them a good example of how to live. For me, a life without risks is not the life I want for my kids.

rrich• 13 years ago

I don't know that there is much I can do to help you, but sometimes it helps to just know you're not alone. You are not alone. You are not the opposite of everyone here.

It sucks, it sucks big time, I know, I'm in the exact same boat. My business has sustained my family for the past fifteen years and over the past year I have lost clients that have been with me from the beginning due to industry consolidation and pricing pressures. If you hold tough this will pass and you will be stronger than ever. You have that spirit and drive within you. You wouldn't have begun the journey if you didn't.

Please know that this is part of the journey and has no reflection on how you are as a father or husband. Regroup, get back to the basics and try again when the time is right. There are amazing people here that are willing to help others, and among those amazing people is you. You shared your story. Many people, including myself, can't bring ourselves to do that, but the willingness to share your story allows us all to know we are not alone on this journey.

AnotherDesigner• 13 years ago

I wish you well. Do whatever it takes to keep your family comfortable, regroup and get ready to fight again. In todays economy, we're all entrepreneurs. You don't get to keep a job your entire life like some of our parents/grandparents did. You fight every day for your family, hustle, make friends, call in favors and help those that need it.

You tried. And you should try again. You've learned something from this but you won't get a chance to use it unless you try again.

Nothing in this world can take the place of persistence. Talent will not: nothing is more common than unsuccessful men with talent. Genius will not; unrewarded genius is almost a proverb. Education will not: the world is full of educated derelicts. Persistence and determination alone are omnipotent. — Calvin Coolidge

spacecowboy• 13 years ago

You are not just a statistic, you are much more. Your an inspiration to your family and to all of us just like all of those that have responded to you with offers to help. Let us all know how we can help.

johnny99• 13 years ago

You're not the opposite of everyone here. I've driven a company into the ground and was an early employee at another where I watched someone else drive us into the ground--not sure which was worse. Have two little kids and after one of the experiences above had to get a 'real' job for a while, in cubicleland. Felt like, and was really, a total failure, at least professionally. Probably doesn't help a ton right now, but you're not alone. Three years after that low point the situation has improved amazingly. It may be a slog, but you can dig out.

If you're in the Bay Area and an engineer or know SaaS sales, my company's hiring. It's a good place to work. Email john@entelo.com if that might help.

spande• 13 years ago

@themanthatfell: I would like to offer you a solution to your problem. It may not seem like one, when you initially read it but I would request you to read it and try to apply it: http://findpo.com/secret-ingredient-actually-2/

shklnrj• 13 years ago

Just keep hanging there. Things would be all right in due time.

wellboy2• 13 years ago

Doesn't matter bro, you can get a job at many startups with a $100,000 salary in the bay area now. Failure is valued in the valley.

You know life is just the blink of an eye and then we are buried 6 feet under, it doesn't matter, so keep it up, get some savings again and next startup. ;)

th3byrdm4n• 13 years ago

Yeah pretty much why I've settled on working for "the man."

Stable paycheck for my family might not compare to the ups (and downs) of running my own, but having gone through a bankruptcy (parents) before, I have no desire to go through it again.

coldtea• 13 years ago

Pretty sure I am the opposite of everyone here.

Quite the contrary. This is the norm -- most startups fail, and a lot of them fail horribly (and with personal defaults).

Keep fighting.

zura• 13 years ago

The world would be such a wonderful place if the location didn't matter... I mean, remove that prefix "if you're at place X" and suddenly all those propositions become much more valuable.

knackernews2• 13 years ago

Don't be the man that fell. Be the man who fell, got back up and kept going. Don't be afraid to ask for help.

And please read up on birth control and family planning.

ars_technician• 13 years ago

And please read up on birth control and family planning.

WTF is that? Did it ever occur to you that they may have intended to have children?

Your comment is not only useless, it's offensive. When you have your first child, you are already bombarded with literature on birth control and family planning. The last thing they need is some person on the Internet making a suggestion that implies their family was a mistake and that they don't know basic things about where their children came from.

knackernews2• 13 years ago

Really, when you're betting everything on startups, which is a risky endeavor, it's best not to have 4 kids (3 of which look like they'll be in college at the same time) until you're well settled.

Also I did think of editing that part out because I know it makes me look like a giant asshole, but it was too late.

abus• 13 years ago

This HN submission is useless and demoralising, bordering on cyber begging. At the bare minimum he should have provided details about what went wrong.

The only moral to be learned is the obvious one: don't risk everything when you have dependants who will suffer.

jbobes• 13 years ago

What did you worked on? I'm in somewhat similar situation with this http://cloud306.com

thomasfl• 13 years ago

We definitely need more failures on HN. All these success stories is bringing me down.

fsniper2• 13 years ago

I don't think we need more failures. But definitely we would like to see older failure and aftermath stories.

xivzgrev• 13 years ago

Really sorry for your situation...how can community help? Listen? Living money? Place to stay? Job? Help on business?

As others have mentioned, hopefully one day when you are ready you can document. The world needs more documented failures to help us avoid survivor bias.

realrocker• 13 years ago

And what a failure! Most of us here wouldn't be able to fail so hard even if we tried. Since it can'get any worse by one's own choice, you are going to have so much fun and excitement going back up. Good luck to your family and you. If you need some daily expenditure money, please ask.

CmonDev• 13 years ago

There are two outcomes when playing lottery...

scotthtaylor• 13 years ago

Do you have a CV that you can send through?

feulix• 13 years ago

Sad story makes me sad. Keep on trying and accept the help of all the people in this thread. Christmas season has officially started.

happywolf2• 13 years ago

Here are two things you can consider:

1) Document why your company failed and have a PayPal Donate Button. I think a lot of people here will appreciate your sharing and glad to donate. I myself am one.

2) List out your skills and see if any remote work can be arranged.

alanmeaney• 13 years ago

Alas, what could have been an interesting discussion reduced to over analysis of some guy calling some other guy a cock.

lowglow• 13 years ago

I'm totally down to help you. Let's meet up if you're in SF. I'll buy you coffee and hep you find something that works for you.

tbarbugli• 13 years ago

startup blues

pedromsantos• 13 years ago

Is this an opportunity to solve a real problem? In helping founders of failed startups. Would an "insurance model" startupt for startups make sense? I'm European, so not sure how this sounds in the USA.

w_t_payne• 13 years ago

Kudos for trying. Good luck with the future. Hope you manage to get back in the ring at some point. Let us know if you need anything specific.

Choronzon• 13 years ago

Do Quit! At least for awhile,these experiences are emotionally and financially shattering and you will want to get a grip on both before you start attempt anything else or your will burn yourself out. Take some boring well paid contact for 6 months,then have another fresh look at things.You deserve some downtime dont be shy to give yourself and your family some.

dodyg• 13 years ago

This is my worst nightmare - I have had my company for 10 years and we've come close to this position twice, first in 2008 during the global economic collapse and second in 2011 when the country I am in had a revolution. I can still remember the stomach churning fear in my stomach during the worse periods.

Good luck to you and your family - it was a brave thing to do. I pray that you get back on your feet as soon as possible.

bwb• 13 years ago

Damn man, I'm sorry but you bet too much on this given your family responsibilities :(

xux• 13 years ago

Really sorry to hear that man. We often stereotype startups as cool, exciting, explore-new-frontier crazy wild success.

Sometimes (probably most of the time) they just don't turn out that way, and the failures have real, life-changing consequences.

dcarmo• 13 years ago

It just seems wrong to have three kids under 6 and a wife pregnant and still try your luck on creating a new company. I think before anything else, you need to be responsible with the ones that depends on you.

acuozzo• 13 years ago

s/wrong/selfish and irresponsible/

antoniopratas• 13 years ago

Use all the know how you gathered while creating and working on your company. Understand how you fit in a company and what that know-how can make you a valuable asset to the company. Look for a full-time position, leverage your know-how to get a higher position and a bigger salary. Get a job, get everything running, start thinking about a new idea and jump to it again when it's time.

exodust3• 13 years ago

What was the company? Why was it "stupid"?

I'm keen to hear what it was. Do you know why it failed? If so, knowing that is very valuable information that is not easily taught. Use that knowledge for your next adventure, and maybe share with us here, so we can learn too?

ddmma• 13 years ago

Failure is a feedback

digitalzombie2• 13 years ago

This is exactly the reason why I don't want to do anything like this.

I didn't get marry or get kids or build any asset because I want a stable career first before I start taking the plunge into starting a company.

Hell I thought about it. And that I can even mitigate the risk to with LLC/INC and I can do it on the side while having a part time or a consultancy job. If my bet doesn't work I can continue to work anyway. My plan was to get a stable and consistence income while having something on the side because it would lower my risk.

Anyway, thank you for posting this and I hope it gets better for you.

nutela• 13 years ago

So did you learn anything? :-)

Jagadeesh1210• 13 years ago

You might lose your money. But don't lose faith in you.

karlcoelho1• 13 years ago

put your email in the bio, so people can get hold of you, and help you out.

tomelders• 13 years ago

If you're based anywhere near London, drop me an email, I might be able to point you towards a few people looking for devs (assuming you're a dev), and I'll also take a look at your CV, I tend two write good ones.

michaelxia• 13 years ago

Your'e one of HN. so fight hard and good luck right back at you.

headgasket2• 13 years ago

What that does not kill you makes you stronger. No product + Sales = company. Product + no Sales = No company.

It's only money, you have your health, your wife and 3 wonderful children, plus a beautiful promise underway. You can start the next one, loosing the stupid, with less than 100$ these days. A days worth of pay saved at the local burger shop. Pick the parts up and charge ahead. Just remember, no sales, no company. Dont buy the coolaid, fight hard for one thing: sales where sales = cost + profit. En-route entrepeneurs on HN should be following a SalesAndMarketingStarNews.yc.com aggregator if one existed. But if it existed it would most likely filed with BS...

Angel money or VC is not an enabler; it's profits that are. Profits attract all sorts of good things.

Good luck. If you are an true entrepeneur this will resonate. If it does not, get the best job you can get at moment's notice, and immediately start looking for the next one up the latter.

Cheers and good luck! And remember the one infinitely valuable thing you have: time.

ceejayoz• 13 years ago

What schlock.

Many things that don't kill you can make you weaker - try quadriplegia on for size. Health is closely tied to money and employment in the US. Someone working at "the local burger shop" with three kids can't spare a day's pay - and $100/day is pretty unlikely take-home pay for minimum wage, anyways.

headgasket2• 13 years ago

It was figurative. Thx for the downvote tho. My point was this guy has something he can sell for recurrent revenue with profits. That's a company. It can be as simple as consulting. A job or a self generated job with upside, what's better?

Good luck to you too.

ests• 13 years ago

I am really sorry about your situation. I can't help you in any "real" way, but I send you the best and warm wishes.

gozmike• 13 years ago

Hey Man - it sucks. But...

It gets better, way better. Keep your family safe and in the forefront and you'll make it through this. I can promise that.

Kalki• 13 years ago

Are you working or have you applied for a traditional day job?

coofluence• 13 years ago

What do you do friend now? Pickup the pieces and look at a few positives from the last experiences. May be you made some contacts during the startup experience who could help you with next phase in life. Your family could be your priority and guide all your thoughts. That said, like a Greek heroic story do overcome the challenge and come out well. Good Luck.

kapogo1• 13 years ago

Dam.

Money will cone back into your life. Be grateful for your health and family health.

This may sound lacking - But - This experience may change you and you family in the better for ways you could not yet imagine.

Justsignedup• 13 years ago

TBH, this is why I only have the one child. Children = big money. Also this is why people live in middle america where 50k buys you a nice big house.

mathattack• 13 years ago

On my worst days, my kids are still thrilled to see me when I get home. Hang in there! There's nothing wrong with getting a boring corporate job while you regroup. I think Zed is the best help you can find, but post an email address in response to this and I'll drop you an email and see if I can help.

jccodez• 13 years ago

I can assure you that what you are experiencing is not out of the ordinary. Everyone has their struggles. My wife was pregnant with our third child while I was unemployed for 8 months. I encourage you to love that family and be a great husband and father. No business success can outshine what you have.

eplanit• 13 years ago

Comments TL;DR

Startup failed. Founder is suffering. Long live Zed Shaw.

sonabinu• 13 years ago

Good Luck !!! You have a lot of courage to reach out and tell your story ... you have the spirit, you will succeed ... Good Luck once again.

jaxn5• 13 years ago

Failure sucks. I have been there.

In my experience the hardest part was that I couldn't separate myself from my startup. So when the startup failed, I was a failure. This was compounded b/c the startup failed in large part b/c of my weaknesses. As a founder we are responsible for all aspects, but we can't be strong in all aspects (I suck at sales).

Take some time to focus on your strengths instead of your weaknesses. Luckily, that is probably the easiest way for you to pay the bills too.

It is going to take some time to rebuild your self-confidence, but it helps to acknowledge that is what is going on.

Good luck!

pouzy• 13 years ago

Did you see it coming ? You might have wanted to start searching for a job before losing the house. Don't think you are worth nothing, hang in there and get back on your feet in a more "normal" manner.

chaostheory• 13 years ago

You had guts. Most people don't have that. You have perseverance. Most people don't have that either. You also have your health, you have a great wife, and it sounds like your family is healthy as well so that's a few big things that most people don't have.

You also haven't failed yet until you stop trying.

Houses are also never really anyone's until they fully pay it off anyways. In most cases, people are just renting from banks. I don't feel that you really lost anything aside from property taxes.

That said, it doesn't hurt to regroup and get a normal gig for some time. I don't think there's any shame with moving in with either your parents or hers for a bit.

Maybe next time you get the fever, aim for starting an equivalent of a "small restaurant" first before something much bigger. i.e. have a day job and work on your project at nights and weekends.

jacoblyles• 13 years ago

I can't help out a lot. But I did accidentally order a pretty nice Christmas present that it turns out I don't need. Drop me an email with your address and I'll forward it for the kids.

Edmond• 13 years ago

Not sure how old you, but one of the central sacrifices that a young entrepreneur has to be ready to make is on the matter of family formation.

The moment you are a family man, things are different, you can still try starting a business but you really need to think long and hard about what you are doing before you make a move.

In fact I would say if you already have a family to support the only business you should start is one where you already have customers lined up ready to pay, or you have investor money to cushion you.

Good luck with everything am sure things will work out.

enscr• 13 years ago

This post struck a chord with HN folks. It would be awesome if OP could exchange the karma with real life credit...

gigawatt• 13 years ago

If you're in NYC or can relocate, the company I work for is on a major hiring push. Very stable and a great place to work — no crazy anti-family startup hours. Feel free to contact me.

bonemachine• 13 years ago

But you're a good writer, obviously.

Hold on. Life has a way of bouncing back (especially when it comes to jobs and money). So you aren't CEO material; but who gives a fuck, really. Your family may be the only ones to see through the fog of our culture's toxic emphasis on performance and "winning" -- but they will stand by you, and they will pull you through this. And they are a million trillion times more valuable than the peer approvable of the crummy startup "culture" out there, and the promise of easy, outsized gains that it dangles in front of us.

OneOneOneOne• 13 years ago

Four kids under 6... I envy you man. My wife and I are working toward that but it will be a few years. Hang in there. You're in my prayers.

xamdam• 13 years ago

I agree with Zed - find job and re-group. I have 3 kids myself and totally understand the insecurity you're feeling - I've been through a layoff. I don't know your jedi level, but starting a business takes smarts and guts lots of companies want. You will probably get a lot of help here already, but feel free to PM me on reddit http://www.reddit.com/user/xamdam/

BrainInAJar• 13 years ago

What's sad is that a large chunk of HN readers are going to see this and think "well my company isn't stupid, so I won't fail" when the reality of the situation is that most startups fail and are, in fact, stupid. Confirmation bias and sunk cost fallacy keep people doing it and slaving to make money for VC snakes

strwbrry• 13 years ago

As a creator (don't like calling myself an entrepreneur) I have failed more than 30 times and out of this I lost everything 3 times and personally went bankrupt 1 week before my wedding (talked about this on Mixergy during Andrews failure week).

I'm now on my third success and each new project seems to get better and bigger, I still launch something that sucks here and there but I enjoy the journey and NOT the attachment to the end result.

I hate to sound all Zen here but failure is normal. I wish I had three kids, wish my wife was pregnant - you lucky man.

Failure cannot live with persistence.

90% of what we do sucks! but that's ok.

You really have no control over your future so enjoy the path.

From one guy that fails to another! @scottsbarlow

spajus• 13 years ago

Zed, you are my fucking hero. Seriously.

edgecrafter• 13 years ago

TL;DR summary: Watch the burn rate on your money - bail out or adjust before to late. Reboot - do anything to get a foot on job market again.

Almost the same here. Quitted a well paid job, sold my flat giving enough money to live on for a couple of years, moved together with girlfriend starting a webshop and loose plans on freelancing as IT-consultant too.

Webshop not taking off and I neglect to pursue consultants job, thus not keeping myself "warm" in the market.

One year later I form a start-up with 2 other guys. 5 months down the road I realize this is not going fast enough - I'm seriously running out of money, about to sell all I own, which only will pay bills for another 2-3 months.

Miraculous, through a friend, I get a break on a consultant gig for 2 months. Another stroke of luck (and marketing myself) this is followed by another gig for 5 months in a new company and the consultant path now on track with a third gig.

The two co-founders took it were badly I jumped ship, as I were the only techguy, although we had outlined the consequences if doing so (no share of company/product) if leaving within first year.

Lesson learned: Do your math, look at $ burnrate. If you go "all in" you might risk "go all out" if you keep going to long. If co-starting something with others be very clear on terms for quitting, and be sure it's ok to do so.

Scary experience loosing almost everything .... Webshop now very slowly getting tracktion - but still not earning "real money" to live by. Still got some startup ideas, but will be outsourced or groomed as side projects

Best of luck to you. Endure the next period, focus to get a foothold in jobmarket again.

ewebbuddy• 13 years ago

Hold tight. It's just a rough patch that will pass. A lot of people here are ready to help. Take it and mend somethings. Stay strong.

_gtvz• 13 years ago

You sound almost exactly like me 2 years ago. 1. House in default, to be foreclosed 2. 3 kids under 6, wife was pregnant 3. Years of trying startups and all out of cash 4. Utilities all to be soon cut off 5. Getting any bit of cash to buy food

What I did.

1. As much as I swore never to return to work, I got a contract job (6 months). It stung, I wasn't in a good headspace at that time.

2. Borrowed some money from my family to cover the mortgage.

3. Saved my house from foreclosure by 6 hours using the borrowed money and my salary.

4. Kept the business running in the background and working on it at night.

5. Worked for 12 months, paying back everything, enjoying seeing my family eat good food once again and getting the occasional night out. What a treat to go and see a movie once in a while :) I can tell you going to the bottom gives you an incredible perspective on money and not what you think either.

6. Built up my contacts and pivoted my business. Lots of hard work and 2 years later I have 2 offices and a team of 7 people. (this is obviously a longer story, but for another day)

I recommend you get a job for the short term and get your life back in order. I can tell you that trying to grow a business while you are incredibly stressed about how you are going to eat or keep the lights on will only result in panic decisions and they will be bad.

If you have a passion to change the world, your families life and your own for the better, you will get back to business soon enough. Business owners have a burning passion to succeed at all costs and only consider this a temporary set back.

(Just a side note, some people have a fantasy of working hard (but not really), having lots of fun, getting traction easily, getting investment, get bought for a few billion and live happily ever after. If this is your plan, I would suggest setting up a career path, it will lead to a much happier life than a startup, in which the failure rate is very high and you have to be prepared to fail many times. Not work towards failure, just accept it as part of the journey.)

penguin_gab• 13 years ago

What is your company called? Have a URL? Just curious..

dtoidniero• 13 years ago

Do you still have your health? Then you have everything. Go work hard and try again. Start a less stupid company next time around. At least you tried.

mikesickler• 13 years ago

Remember this: the startup failed, but you're not a failure, and you'll start another company again in the future. I'll bet you learned a hell of a lot this time around, and you'll be in a much better position to succeed NEXT time!

And you're not the opposite of everyone here. Two weeks after I soft-launched my startup in 2012, my wife and I separated. This is my _2nd_ divorce, by the way, at age 37. Boy, did I feel like a failure! I was financially ruined, and my startup was put on ice for nearly a year as I battled depression and got back on my feet. I had some dark, dark days, believe me.

Now, though, I have a terrific co-founder (and no, it's not wife #3. Learned my lesson!), and while we're just getting started with sales, things are looking great and I couldn't be happier. Draw on your family for energy and support right now. Make sure you have someone to talk to, be it your wife, a friend, or a therapist. Give yourself permission to put the startup dream on hold, and work at an office for a while.

Finally: Read 'Feeling Good' by David Burns. This book really, really saved my ass. Best of luck, happy holidays, and keep fighting the good fight!

gtallen1187• 13 years ago

nothing too original in this post, just wanted to offer some words of encouragement, and possibly give you some perspective from a different point of view.

i myself have been in this situation, although it was my father in your shoes and i was the child. i also remember the police knocking at the door and our family having to pick up and move.

your courage and commitment to chase your idea and pursue your dream is part of who you are. i know it may be hard to see this now, but it is this ambition and bravery that your family will always remember and love you for. as children, we knew that our dad was having some tough times and that there would be changes in our lives because of it, but none of this ever gave rise to any questions of his love. we always knew that our dad loved us, and that in the end, that was all that mattered.

i know its hard to see the good things now, but just remember that your family is there for you, through the good times and the bad. your children will always love and respect you - not for how well or how bad your business did, but for the parts of you that made you give it a shot.

i dont have many resources myself, and even fewer industry connections, but if you are ever in/around the pittsburgh area id be more than happy to lend an ear or do what i can to help.

soboleiv• 13 years ago

It reminds me of what life actually is. And I love it. Hold on there.

known• 13 years ago

Celebrate your failure.

jds375• 13 years ago

Even though you got no monetary value out of it, just remember how valuable the experience and the lessons learned were.

codyguy• 13 years ago

Hey, I will try to send work your way. What skills do you have?

fl0m• 13 years ago

What is that all about?

Started a stupid company. Failed.

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