Ask HN: What is your spiritual practice?

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29700445

by andrei_says_ • 5 years ago

390 865 5 years ago

news.ycombinator.com

Your day-to-day one?

chana_masala3• 5 years ago

Puja for Ganesh then reading Vedas

p0d3• 5 years ago

Every morning I read a section of the Bible's Old Testament, Psalm, Proverb and New Testament.

I then use the Lord's Prayer as a framework to pray. Having done this for many years I have observed we begin 'Our Father' and focus on God. My own inclination would be to start with 'Forgive me' and focus on me.

I then spend my day trying to honour Jesus's teachings. The highs and lows of the previous day are discussed the next morning.

toper-centage• 5 years ago

Do you ever struggle with the parts of the bible that feel outdated in the modern context? I never read the bible by myself, but I went to Sunday school for 9 years and I remember struggling as a child to conciliate what I was being taught at school and at chruch, and specially ignoring the hipocrisy of the people lecturing the bible stuff not practicing any of that. I don't remember specific examples, as this was 15 years ago and I've since become atheist.

pyjarrett• 5 years ago

Do you ever struggle with the parts of the bible that feel outdated in the modern context? I never read the bible by myself

I used to, but it becomes more practical and timeless the more I read my Bible. I read a version with cross-references in the center-line so reading slower and checking these makes it make a lot more sense. The way I'd recommend reading is Mark, Luke, John, Matthew, Acts and Romans (all in the New Testament) while periodically reading the cross-references as you go. This covers basic beliefs and how Jesus taught following the spirit of the Law, why Gentile Christians don't follow the full Jewish Law (Acts 15) and how those before Jesus aren't condemned (Romans). Then I'd recommend Genesis and Exodus to understand the Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob family line, and the establishment of the Law. Follow with 1st/2nd Samuel and 1st/2nd Kings for most of the rest of the historical side of context. Psalms and Proverbs can be read a little at a time, at any time.

read a section of the Bible's Old Testament, Psalm, Proverbs and New Testament.

This is also the way I read, and it's super helpful. Old/New Testament for spiritual growth, Psalms for worship, and Proverbs for ordinary day-to-day advice (there's also 31 Proverbs so its easy to pickup whatever day it is).

I went to Sunday school for 9 years and I remember struggling as a child to conciliate what I was being taught at school and at chruch, and specially ignoring the hipocrisy of the people lecturing

A lot of Sunday school is way too boiled down. There's hypocrisy everywhere and the church is no exception. People try to justify their own sin and resultant problems by ranking it against others--part of the reasons Christians are told not to judge others (especially outside the church), but instead help others in the church with their problems and be open to correction. It's supposed to be handled internally, but occasionally isn't, and I've moved to a different church when I've found it's entrenched and not fixable.

asenchi• 5 years ago

Check out The Bible Project on Youtube, they have a lot of great videos on scripture and how to read the books for today.

djsamseng• 5 years ago

Absolutely I still struggle to read the Bible and find the relevance. But then I felt a tug and wound up at a more modern church that applies it to today. Podcasts on leadership and entrepreneurship. Dinner parties on people’s rooftops overlooking NYC (precovid). Volunteering together delivering meals to those in need. This I could understand.

Also Christians aren’t perfect. My hope is that you don’t let us ruin what could be the best thing that can happen to you.

kukkeliskuu5• 5 years ago

I went to Sunday school as a child as well, and was later annoyed by the hypocrisy.

But there is lot of ageless wisdom in the Bible. I would concentrate on that. For example check the Matthew effect ("rich get richer"), and how it relates to modern technology, Google PageRank is based on it.

sudosteph2• 5 years ago

I love your observation about the Lord's Prayer. I often end up using it as a framework too, partly because it does feel so complete (also because of course Jesus literally told us to pray like that). I feel you a lot in the urge to otherwise start with "forgive me" part, and I myself still do that a lot. I realize I need to work on practicing gratitude towards Him more often too, which is important to escaping the trap of self-pity I'm so prone to falling in.

p0d3• 5 years ago

Thank you. There is something special about taking the focus of yourself and it is hard to do :-)

blackbrokkoli• 5 years ago

I like Shikantaza, although I can't claim to actually do it daily. It translates to "just sitting" and is a form of meditation consisting of, well, just that. It is mostly based on a single text telling you how to sit and how to balance not-falling-asleep and not-actively-thinking. That's all. There is no extensive literature translated to death and no startup trying to sell you something, but yet you are right there with the core weirdness of meditation and paradoxes like thinking non-thinking. Love it.

MichaelEstes• 5 years ago

Spending time reminding myself that there is no soul, god, afterlife or anything likewise as a reminder that we’re just animals and our consciousness’ need to be anything more is ego getting in the way of being truly empathetic and reverent of the time we have here.

bradwood• 5 years ago

This. And having done so for so many years, the process becomes automatic, and the time required to execute it mere nanoseconds.

aorth• 5 years ago

I would add: stopping to realize and appreciate that the universe and our existence is incredible.

nasmorn• 5 years ago

Ultramarathon running

xupybd8• 5 years ago

I try to make time every day to "spend time with God".

This involves reading the Bible, praying, worshipping and meditating on the Bible.

Preferably first thing. However I don't function so well without coffee so often I get up and make a coffee first.

d-d• 5 years ago

I talk to God throughout the day and focus on listening. This includes some light Bible reading and expecting answers. Transparent, concise, empathic, respectful prayers seem to be answered with great enthusiasm. God is dad, but dad is also God. It is both odd and fantastic.

g50953• 5 years ago

I really resonate with this

CrzyLngPwd• 5 years ago

I practice Dzogchen every-day non-meditation as well as more formal "just sitting with eyes half open and staring like a zombie" meditation.

monktastic12• 5 years ago

Me too. It would be fun to find all the HN Dzogchenpas / Mahamudra practitioners.

rixed3• 5 years ago

I'm used to offer at least a small animal every day to The Deity, and a more substantial sacrifice in special occasions, whenever I can afford.

specproc• 5 years ago

I got a little shrine with little nick nacks that mean stuff to me. Stuff that represents members of my family, money to bring money, a compass and a few books. I light a candle there every now and again.

I'm no longer Christian, but the Lord's Prayer is so thoroughly burned into my brain it helps me tune out and sleep sometimes.

leashless• 5 years ago

Mostly karma yoga: I'm working towards various big goals which largely benefit other people or manage crises. When I was younger, lots of meditation in the Nath tradition (sort of Hindu dzog chen - Nepalese, so there was a lot of cross talk with Tibet, Mahasiddha stuff).

chana_masala3• 5 years ago

I have heard the Vajrayana Buddhism is similar to certain Saivite Hindu sects. Hindu Dzog Chen sounds very interesting

_ywdj2• 5 years ago

Not sure if it counts as spiritual, but for 10 years I've consistently done subconscious, mind+body healing exercises. It's been profoundly transformative.

Prior to that (and for quite a while after) I had a huge amount of drama and chaos in my life, and after searching far and wide for answers (starting with the usual stuff - mainstream therapy, meditation, etc) I learned about these healing practices, which address the physiological reactions that happens when we experience triggering events.

Over time, my practice has developed into this: try to live a normal, well-functioning life, do my best at whatever I do. When things happen that trigger reactions - anger, resentment, arrogance, jealousy, contempt, shame, etc, or anything that makes me feel a jolt or even very mild visceral reaction, undertake the practice, which enables me to find where in my past the reaction comes from, then do a brief breathing exercise to let it go. Rinse and repeat. Over time, the reactions weaken, my overall stress burden diminishes (along with physiological issues like inflammation, chronic pain, etc), and bit by bit life gets simpler and important indicators like relationships and career steadily imrove.

eliotSplyt• 5 years ago

I’d love to learn more about this. Do you have any links or resources you would recommend?

diamondap• 5 years ago

Bessel van der Kolk's book The Body Keeps the Score is a brilliant and enlightening study of how trauma and all kinds of negative experiences are literally stored in the body as tension, which, when chronic, can become debilitating inflammation and pain.

Van der Kolk noted in his decades of practice that trauma victims, and those who are chronically angry, anxious, wary, etc. are deeply out of touch with their bodies. They were often clumsy and visibly tense, though when asked how their bodies felt, they either couldn't say, or they were just "normal."

He had to first get patients to recognize how their bodies felt, then taught them to relax and change those feelings through various exercises, meditations and practices. When the body started to loosen up, the mind and emotions followed.

https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/18693771-the-body-keeps-...

Edit Eger, a holocaust survivor turned therapist, found the same things in her decades of practice. Both books spend a lot of time describing the symptoms and problems, and the address healing practices toward the end.

Eger's book is at https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/30753738-the-choice

In general, both Buddhist meditation and Yoga address these mind-body issues well, in forms that you can practice as part of your daily life.

_ywdj2• 5 years ago

It's hard to recommend stuff here (I've been trying for years to work out how to reply to this answer FWIW), as a lot of the popular books about it are too close to law-of-attraction, Tony Robbins, Think and Grow Rich kind of stuff, or linked to the chiropractic field, which is a turnoff for a lot of for most people here, for reasons I understand, as I don't subscribe to much of that myself.

I also don't want to recommend particular practices here, lest I be seen as making health recommendations, which I'm not qualified to do.

I've written a lot of content about my own journey, which can help people to know what different practices are available and enable people to decide for themselves what practices are worth trying. Anyone is welcome to email me (address in bio) if they want to read what I've written. I also have a Discord group for people who want to discuss this stuff with other folks who are interested (pretty much everyone in the group is from HN).

But if you just want publicly available info and modalities, try these:

Authors: Gabor Maté, Peter Levine, Bruce Lipton, Bradley Nelson, Stan & Christina Grof.

Modalities: NET, Psych-K, Somatic Experiencing, Holotropic Breathwork, EFT/Tapping, Family Constellations, Ericksonian Hypnotherapy (but not NLP, in my opinion).

wilkommen• 5 years ago

I do essentially the same thing, but I’ve only been at it for a couple years.

bayindirh2• 5 years ago

I practice Zen meditation for almost 9 years. I also can teach entry levels.

The transformation it brought is unimaginable.

roeles4• 5 years ago

Care to elaborate on the transformation? I'd love to hear more!

bayindirh2• 5 years ago

Of course. :)

Zen meditation (as I practice) is one of the deeper ways of practice, and helps one to reflect and dig deeper into one's emotions and being.

As a person who read early, and immediately started to tinker with computers and electronics, I was the different kid who bullied a lot, and it deformed me in a lot of ways. I was short tempered, introverted, scared and scarred without any self-esteem and self-worth. My brain was always noisy, and had concentration problems. This affected my friendships and relationships. Having a couple of bad girlfriends made everything worse. Much worse.

When I started to practice, I started to balance and heal myself. I understood myself better, my brain silenced, I became much more patient and kind (I wasn't rude either, but Zen made me softer). I had some career-defining moments in my life, and was able to navigate them with help of Zen.

All in all it made me rooted, balanced and helped me grow to an healthy and better adult. I probably have some crinkles and dents here and there, but at least I know who I am. It allows me to reflect better and understand what's happening.

It's a never ending way, and I'm not looking for a destination to be honest, however it's not a silent walk in the park all the time. Sometimes you encounter your inner demons. These encounters are what transforms you.

gbuk20133• 5 years ago

Chi Kung and Kriya Yoga.

The former takes care of all my health and well-being needs and spills over into the spiritual practice side.

Th latter does whatever it does on the spiritual side and also spills over into health and well being.

One is practiced with the aim of achieving something the other sort of practices itself. :)

plinkplonk3• 5 years ago

Which system of Chi Kung(if you don't mind) ?

gbuk20133• 5 years ago

Shaolin Wahnam - been at it for about 17 years now. :)

We don't have a syllabus for Chi Kung but here's a list of some of the groups of exercises taught and some brief theory as to their uses: https://shaolin.org/general-2/five-animal-play/play09.html

I mostly stick with 4, 11 and 12 on that list - find the more advanced things still a bit overwhelming for more than occasional practice.

Happy to provide more detail if you are interested.

sonabinu• 5 years ago

Daily mass. It does not feel spiritual every single day but most days the mind is focused, and I feel calm and a sense that I’m part of something greater than the immediate world of work, family and daily concerns.

kozikow• 5 years ago

What I do spiritually: Meditation - it's proven to have health benefits, even in purely non-spiritual setting. Besides that: trying to be good in general, etc. Experience love and gratefulness.

What I think it's there: My main point of inspiration are "near death experiences". There is solid evidence they are not just hallucinations of dying brain. The primary argument that they are not hallucinations is obtaining independently verifiable information observed during "leaving the body" during near death experiences. Ed Kelly (professor at UVA DOPS) said that he collected over 100 cases, when the person leaving the body during the NDE observed information that couldn't be physically observed, known prior to NDE, guessed or hallucinated using known information and credibility of verifying professional wasn't questioned. Many of the reports included information obtained minutes after the cardiac arrest. Many of the reports included reports from different locations (e.g. Wife traveling to meet dying husband with 4 people, earlier than planned). People blind from birth describing independently verified visual information.

Some examples and links to investigate (copy doi to scihub if you don't have access):

0. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6172100/

1. https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S01406...

2. https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/abs/10.2190/KNTM-6R07-LTVT-...

3. http://citeseerx.ist.psu.edu/viewdoc/download?doi=10.1.1.456...

4. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JL1oDuvQR08

5. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u-91QXXsyEc

6. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6172100/

Besides NDEs, check research at UVA DOPS https://med.virginia.edu/perceptual-studies/ . Check irreducible mind book - there is surprisingly vast amount of scientific evidence that something spiritual is real, just that majority of scientific community refuses to even consider it.

stelonix4• 5 years ago

I'm part of a church where we take ayahuasca a couple times a month while performing our rituals. Day to day is the usual self-awareness plus christian deal: meditation + attempting to do good, try not to be a dick to others etc.

mam43• 5 years ago

Is there not physical damage to doing it that often ?

Ive done it twice in a row 3 years ago and it was fine but i was wondering that b.c. in the community i did that they were literally giving it to children starting 3 y.o.

temp0826• 5 years ago

The retreat I worked at drinks 4 times a week, every week all year. Often the shamans drink more. I don't believe it causes any damage (quite the opposite), however the diet that comes along with it (traditionally fish and plantains, and skipping dinner on ceremony nights) can be very depleting. Breaks with normal food (salt, oil, vitamins) are great especially for the long-term (e.g. apprentice) drinkers.

Fnoord2• 5 years ago

You need to be careful with Ayahuasca to not have MAOI in your diet or medicine. Things like fermented cheese, fish, wine for example can each be dangerous.

Disclaimer: I used Ayahuasca once. If you must use psychedelics, stick to LSD or amanita muscaria / psilos, they are much safer. Its ridiculous Ayahuasca is legally obtainable in The Netherlands, while LSD and psilos are not with the former easy to standardize and the latter being banned for safety reasons (17 y.o. French student committed suicide in Amsterdam after usage).

stelonix4• 5 years ago

I have been taking it for the past 7 years, sometimes a couple times a month, sometimes more, and have zero physical damage from it. It's pretty common in indigenous communities or other ayahuasca centers to give it to children, yeah. No records of anything bad happening to them. In the church I attend, there's people who have been taking it for the past 28 years with no issues at all.

noloblo• 5 years ago

Which church

stelonix4• 5 years ago

It's called Santo Daime, a syncretism between original indigenous beliefs with catholic christianity; though our views of being a Christian are very different from catholics or protestants though. From catholicism, mostly the non-vilification (praise in a non-idolatrous way) of the Virgin Mary and saints. There's also a mix of african religions which spread throughout Brazil and a bit of esoterism.

conradludgate• 5 years ago

I'm not at all religious, so I have no "higher power" to guide me, instead I just put on one of my favourite albums and close my eyes for an hour. The albums I like are very progressive and trance-like so it's kinda like my own personal form of meditation. I don't really use the time to reflect or focus on anything, but having the time for myself is nice for my brain

yosito2• 5 years ago

I'm an atheist, and don't believe in the supernatural per se. To me, the supernatural is best described by Harold Abelson in Structure and Interpretation of Computer Programs:

We are about to study the idea of a computational process. Computational processes are abstract beings that inhabit computers. As they evolve, processes manipulate other abstract things called data. The evolution of a process is directed by a pattern of rules called a program. People create programs to direct processes. In effect, we conjure the spirits of the computer with our spells.
A computational process is indeed much like a sorcerer's idea of a spirit. It cannot be seen or touched. It is not composed of matter at all. However, it is very real. It can perform intellectual work. It can answer questions. It can affect the world by disbursing money at a bank or by controlling a robot arm in a factory. The programs we use to conjure processes are like a sorcerer's spells. They are carefully composed from symbolic expressions in arcane and esoteric programming languages that prescribe the tasks we want our processes to perform.
A computational process, in a correctly working computer, executes programs precisely and accurately. Thus, like the sorcerer's apprentice, novice programmers must learn to understand and to anticipate the consequences of their conjuring. Even small errors (usually called bugs or glitches) in programs can have complex and unanticipated consequences.

I do think the supernatural exists but simply as perceived emergent properties of natual systems. For example, most of us have experienced love and might describe it as a supernatural experience. That is a real experience to most of us. Yet we know that in reality, the experience we had emerged from a complex set of natual systems (hormones, brainwaves, etc) that are far beyond our understanding.

So to answer your question, my spirital practices are things that increase my wellbeing and bring about these supernatural experiences.

Regularly: breath-focused meditation, time in nature, swimming laps, sex, burning incense, journaling/reflection.

Occasionally: fasting, ayahuasca, solitude retreats.

marcofatica• 5 years ago

I'm not sure I agree with this take.

It is not composed of matter at all.

Is this not false? Maybe not at the level we can see with our human eyes, but any computer process does exist as matter, in the bits of code stored on the disk and the electrical circuits that execute it

Veen• 5 years ago

I think the point is that compuational processes are an emergent property of matter, but not matter. It's like how when I look at the plant on my desk, I see a green thing. The "experience of greenness" isn't composed of matter; it emerges as a result of the interaction of matter and energy in particular ways, but is not itself matter.

blablabla123• 5 years ago

That, also considering things like Gödel Incompleteness, Halting problem, P vs NP being so difficult, Emergence, divergences and intrinsically probabilistic theories in Physics: that already feels sufficiently counterintuitive and supernatural to me. At least there is a vast area of things not yet understood

nottorp• 5 years ago

At least there is a vast area of things not yet understood

They key is to accept that there are phenomena we don't know enough about yet. There's no supernatural, just stuff that needs a couple more hundred years of research :)

f0e4c2f7• 5 years ago

I look at the stars and try to think about how long it took for the light to reach my eye and how big time is.

I also meditate but I find that habit harder to keep up.

notRobot• 5 years ago

Putting on music and doing the dishes. I find that it helps my brain reset.

drakonka• 5 years ago

I am not religious, but do feel spiritual in that I believe there is something bigger than us, and that we are part of a bigger, yet-unexplained whole that we reconnect with at some point. It is more of a "It's a comforting thought for me" thing rather than a set, unwavering surety. I don't really have any sort of practice of this, though. Lately I finally started meditating more - multiple times per week. I feel it helps to get me out of my head and closer to this sense of greater connection and wellbeing.

yasserd99• 5 years ago

I pray 5 times a day.

prometheus7610• 5 years ago

I am an Orthodox Christian. My day begins with prayer, as soon as possible after I wake up. Prayer consists of reading (or reciting) prayers from a prayer book, followed by 100-200 Jesus Prayers ("Lord Jesus Christ, have mercy on me!"), followed by 12-25 prostrations.

I then read the daily scripture readings indicated by the liturgical calendar.

At noon, I usually read a Psalm in front of my icons (I work from home) and do 12 prostrations.

After dinner, we pray together as a family, then read several chapters from the Bible together and discuss whatever comes up in the text we are reading that day. We're currently in the middle of reading the Bible in a year.

Before bed, I repeat my morning routine, but saying evening prayers instead of morning prayers. I usually fall asleep while saying the Jesus Prayer. I also say the Jesus Prayer throughout the day as I am doing things that don't require strong focus.

We go to Vespers (evening prayers) on Saturday night, and we go to church on Sunday morning.

Growing into this routine has changed my life, healed my family, and brought immense peace and joy (and struggle!) into my life. Glory to God!

EDIT: I should add that prayers are typically said while standing in front of an icon corner, usually with a candle lit and incense burning. Obviously, when I am saying the Jesus Prayer throughout the day or falling asleep, I'm not following those guidelines, but my morning and evening prayers are said while standing, usually with my eyes open.

friendly_chap• 5 years ago

Wow! As someone who at some point in life was intensely meditating (nowadays less so) your routine reminds me of my habits, ie. falling asleep meditating vs praying etc, meditating upon waking up etc. Interesting how we can be so different yet similar!

febin• 5 years ago

A fellow orthodox christian here. I have been trying to cultivate the habit of Jesus prayer. But the journey is a struggle.

However, even in the fallen attempts to walk the orthodox way of life I occasionally sense the joy and warmth described in the spiritual texts about Jesus Prayer. Thus motivating me to continue the path.

Please remember me in your prayers :)

prometheus7610• 5 years ago

At first I used an app on my phone to send myself random reminders to say the Jesus Prayer throughout the day. That really helped spur the habit along. Now, I am almost always saying it while I'm driving, or if I'm doing chores around the house, or if I'm walking around somewhere. At first, it felt a little odd, but now I find it much more rewarding than just letting my brain wander around in a forest of nonsense and ego-focused self-reflection.

raptorraver2• 5 years ago

Great to see other Orthodox Christians at HN! Already posted quite similar reply to this thread.

Especially the "healed my family" -part is something I can really relate to. We've been part of the church for 11 years now but were again quite "deep in the world" before I did a pilgrimage to mt. Athos at 2019. That trip really changed everything for us. It was there that I realized that what Church teaches is the Truth and reality, not just some beautiful and consolating stories, but something to live and die for. After that we've been tied tight to the Church and have been blessed with a good spiritual father who has helped us set our path straight again.

God bless you and your family!

prometheus7610• 5 years ago

Glory to God! I agree with you about the reality of Christianity. It took a long time (and I'm still working on it) for me to see the broken nature of my materialist viewpoints. By "broken" I mean there were SO many facets of my life as a human that I could not account for materialistically without invoking magic words like "emergence". Reading the Life of Moses by St. Gregory of Nyssa is what really started helping me understand the traditional worldview, and thereby understand scripture as well.

I would like to go to Mt Athos soon, but international travel is getting more and more tricky.

eatYourFood3• 5 years ago

Jesus Christ, this is the kind of thing you read in the newspaper where some crazy religious guy kidnaps his family on a remote ranch and rapes them all.

You’re torturing your family, wrapping them in a small bubble of a fantasy world.

This extreme level of religious living is outright child abuse.

dang• 5 years ago

We've banned this account. You can't attack others like that here (and you've unfortunately don't it before, though this level of aggression is...noteworthy).

If you don't want to be banned, you're welcome to email hn@ycombinator.com and give us reason to believe that you'll follow the rules in the future. They're here: https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html.

hycaria4• 5 years ago

This sounds crazy to me, mostly regarding the amount of time all this must take.

prometheus7610• 5 years ago

How much time do you spend on social media (including youtube and HN)? How much time do you spend watching tv? How much time do you spend watching sports? I have shifted my attention to what is most important, doing these spiritual practice things first, and letting those other activities slot in around the time. Our lives are basically determined by what we put our attention on, so why not give the prime real estate to what is most important? We are all going to die. It's best to confront that reality each day and make peace with it in a ritualistic way that also brings meaning to each day.

I didn't start doing all of that overnight, by the way. I worked with my spiritual father on a pathway that started very simply, and this is my current level of participation, but I am sure it will continue to grow and change over time.

prometheus7610• 5 years ago

I didn't address the time component. The morning prayers/scriptures takes about 20-30 minutes. Lunch time Psalms is 5-10 minutes at most. Family prayers after dinner are about 10-15 minutes. Bible reading after that is about 15-25 minutes, depending on how much we discuss what we read. Evening prayers on my own are another 15-20 minutes daily.

Vespers on Saturday night is about an hour (and my wife and I go to dinner afterwards usually, as our weekly date). Church on Sunday is about two hours, and we usually spend time afterwards drinking coffee and chatting for another 30-60 minutes with other members of our parish, but not always.

andrei_says_17• 5 years ago

How did this practice heal your life? And how does it influence who you are / your state of being outside of the time you’re actively praying or performing a specific ritual - the rest of the day?

Also, do you feel that the actions you describe change the quality of your thinking or perception of yourself and reality? How?

prometheus7610• 5 years ago

You're asking some big questions, and they're good questions, and I'll assume you're asking in good faith and do my best to answer.

Before I became an Orthodox Christian, the best way to describe my worldview and mindset was "scattered and easily distracted". I have always pursued whatever I thought was interesting, but never had a cohesive worldview. I would jump and flit from topic to topic without having any way of incorporating what I learned into a daily practice and worldview. I swore constantly, was careless in my relationships, and frequently offended people around me, including my loved ones.

I was a consumer and was very alienated from the world around me and from my loved ones. I lived a very atomized life where I was convinced that my actions didn't affect anyone but me. Very much an individualist.

Since becoming Christian and realizing there is an objective reality, that my actions affect others, and their actions affect me, and that I will die sooner or later, my life has come into sharper focus. I understand much more clearly now that if you want to change the world and help with the healing process, the best place to start is in your own home, with how you treat your loved ones, and how you take care of your home.

Also, another important perspective from Orthodox Christianity, and one of the main reasons we wear a cross, is to remember to crucify our self, our ego, in the service of others each day. Christ said "No greater love hath a man than this, he is willing to lay his life down for his friends." We believe that is why males and females were created. So they could get married and martyr themselves in the service of another. We believe that is what it means to truly be a human being. Monks also take on this same responsibility, but in the service of God, the church, and their monastic community. (Monasteries are not a refuge from the world, but instead, the bleeding front lines of a spiritual battle.)

Praying for my loved ones (living and dead) daily, praying for my perceived enemies, and praying for God's mercy for the world, has dramatically changed how I see other people, and how I try to live up to role in serving others. I no longer obsess over whether my spouse is filling my chalice of invented "needs". Instead, I try to look for ways to make her life easier, more comfortable. And I'm still working on this part, but I try not to call attention to my efforts or to even call attention to what I've done. God sees my efforts and what is done in secret will be rewarded openly.

We also end each day together as a family by praying, and after prayer, we ask each other for forgiveness if we have done anything to hurt them or offend them today. This has ENORMOUS consequences that are hard to put into words.

My daughter used to be terrified of the dark. She used to have nightmares and insomnia, because my wife and I used to argue and fight in front of her. Our home was filled with trauma and despair. My wife and I were nihilists who were just following our passions (I mean that in the traditional way) and doing whatever we wanted to do/thought was right, and we were in constant conflict.

Now, we pray together, read the Bible together, share our daily frustrations with each other, encourage each other, eat together, listen to each other. We don't watch tv. We rarely go to movies. Last night I read out of the Bible while my wife and daughter worked on a puzzle, and after I read, I joined them and we were just talking and joking with each other and listening to music. This is what I mean by how my life has been healed.

Prayer is my personal way of participating in my relationship with God. Each day includes a review of my day, where I reflect on my sins and shortcomings, pray for forgiveness, and pray for strength in overcoming my weaknesses. I pray for guidance in how I can overcome my old patterns, and I read the scriptures with the intention of finding useful patterns of behavior that I can model in my own life.

Because of my daily prayer habit, I'm much more careful about what I say, and how I treat other people, because I know in the back of my mind that I will be standing before God, my Father and Creator of the universe, that evening in prayer, and I will be answering for how I treat others. I want to burn away the parts of myself that are interfering with my relationship with God and with those around me, and prayer helps serve as that reminder, that connection.

As for your last question, I can only say this: Jordan Peterson's lectures on the Bible series opened my mind and heart to the idea that there's a LOT more going on in the Bible than my old materialist, scientist brain was understanding. I began to study medieval philosophy, and the work of Jonathan Pageau has truly opened my eyes to how reality works, and how I fit into that cosmology, and what my role is in reality. I have also realized just how much effect being with other people in a community in person has on me, and how I only barely understand the power of standing in church together (Orthodox Christians typically stand during the Divine Liturgy service as a form of respect and worship) all worshipping together by standing together, looking in the same direction, hearing hymns and prayers, surrounded by icons, with the smell of incense in the air. There are some things you can only know through experience. Reading a book about Orthodox Christianity is basically like reading a book about martial arts. It won't get you very far in a fight.

Anyway, I pray that my answer has been helpful. Please forgive me if I didn't answer your questions adequately or if I misunderstood what you were asking. God bless you.

gherkinnn• 5 years ago

Sitting on a bench. Lying under a tree. Going for walks with no goal in mind. Thinking, musing, watching the world unfold.

chasd00• 5 years ago

I make coffee the same way at pretty much the same time every morning.

adamhp• 5 years ago

Amen.

dpcan• 5 years ago

Here it is. I found my people.

jeffrallen2• 5 years ago

Lavazza Rossa or GTFO. :)

KWD• 5 years ago

I was going to reply none, but this is me.

ryanmercer• 5 years ago

My wife and I are members of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. It's far more important to her than it is to me though.

For me a large part of believing in something greater in myself is the hope that I simply won't cease to exist when I experience brain death. I pray hoping someone is on the other end at least listening to me, I rationalize life on our planet as some sort of orchestrated miracle, I look to the vastness of space to realize that I am insignificant beyond imagination and that our planet and solar system are also insignificant beyond imagination.

I think of my friends and family that have died, and hope that I get to interact with them at some point and try and approximate that right now with things like writing the annual letter to my father and telling him what has been going on in my life since he died 12 days before my 13th birthday which I place on my blog here https://www.ryanmercer.com/ryansthoughts/category/dad

I think of the incredible age of the universe and the tiny blip that is a human's lifespan and hope that I am not some sort of chemical accident. That I'm not a bunch of electrical/chemical reactions that believes it is self aware by some fluke.

On any given day I'm 50%+ (sometimes 100%) of the opinion that we likely exist in a simulation which, at least to me, explains why we have such rapid tech advancements, why we have not detected any other sentient species in the universe, why we haven't seen any evidence of Kardashev 2+ level building in our galactic back yard, why so many things have be invented/discovered within weeks or years of each other by human beings with no contact with one another. I also like this thought because, like in the book series Magic 2.0 by Scott Meyer, there might be some hope that I can exploit some conditions of the simulation to directly benefit myself by either altering my character database or a database of something around me. Silly, but sometimes it keeps me going.

gremlinsinc6• 5 years ago

I'm an exmormon (thanks to the CES Letter and A letter to my Wife)...

This led me to become agnostic mostly, Still have some hope for life after death of some sorts, but without deity as a requirement... i.e. our energy source lives on...

However in April last year, I witnessed a Mandela Effect w/ my wife, I was reading about the movie Apollo 13 with Tom Hanks and how he said in the movie: "Houston we've had a problem". I was literally reading about a "flip-flop"... where to the person writing the thread on reddit it flipped back and forth from "we have" to "we've had" like twice for them...the current state from the thread being: "we've had"...

Now I hadn't seen the movie in over a decade, but I remembered "we have", but I thought that could easily just be because it's a pretty popular saying in pop-culture.

Anyhow this was a Friday night, and we watched it on youtube. Sure enough Tom Hanks says... "Uh, Houston we've had a problem".

Fast forward, I'm reading a list of common mandela effects in the format: Current => Previous, and it says Houston We Have a Problem => Previously: Houston we've had a problem.

My first thought: Well, that's obviously a typo,but just to be sure I go check.

The scene is completely changed. In fact the entire cadence is changed. It's now "Houston we have a problem" but also Tom Hanks is a lot more "frantic" and intense, when he was a little more laid back in the other version.

It's kinda funny there's a Buzzfeed article on the top mis-quoted movie lines. Apollo 13 is first. <https://www.buzzfeed.com/briangalindo/20-famous-movie-lines-...>

Misquote: “Houston, we have a problem”
Actual movie quote: "... Ah, Houston, we've had a problem.”

If you look at the subreddit: https://reddit.com/r/retconned - this is probably the most common "flip flop"...

It's the fact that I honestly believe reality "changed" that I have to agree with you on simulation theory being a possibility that or many worlds...and somehow we're traveling through them, or maybe we do when we die and I died of sleep apnea or something...

Simulation to me seems most likely though, as it would explain the double slit quantum eraser experiment pretty handily. It could be then that reality's "truths" or "facts" then become some sort of consensus mechanism where if 51% of people remember "Houston we've had a problem" it changes back to that...

Like you I also thought maybe I could interact w/ the "matrix" and tried researching occult, magick, etc... and really never figured much out in that regards.. though /r/castaneda was probably the most interesting rabbit hole I found... darkroom gazing was very interesting indeed and trippy.

I was a bit manic/hyperfocused on this for like 3 months ...almost in a bad way. When you doubt reality it's easy - esp. if depressed to think about if reality is fake then quitting reality doesn't even matter.

For my own sanity, I gave up on the endeavor of finding out what's going on and how to control it, but go back to just appreciating the beauty of what we do see, and admire the complexities - though I do still read any threads I can find on new discoveries in consciousness-related neuroscience, quantum mechanics, etc...

therealcamino• 5 years ago

It's just an easily misremembered movie quote. When everybody remembered "Play it again, Sam," being a line from Casablanca, instead of the less pithy actual line, nobody posited that the world had changed around them. It's always struck me as an extremely self-focused view of the world to prefer the explanation that the entire universe has been changed, rather than to believe that you made the same easy-to-make mistake that millions of other people did too.

jjbinx007• 5 years ago

Not religious at all. I don't believe in the supernatural and I don't think it would even be possible for us to detect it even if it does exist.

I'm not superstitious (after all, it's unlucky to be superstitious) and I'm not even sure what spiritual means as I've never heard a coherent definition.

I get my sense of awe, wonder and beauty from the natural world, whether that's star gazing or studying and appreciating nature.

I'm probably an outlier but just wanted to add my voice to the conversation.

baliex• 5 years ago

Fellow outlier here, perhaps we should begin to meet regularly to discuss our shared beliefs and how to proliferate them?

I wouldn’t expect us to be outliers here to be honest but it’s always interesting to see what other replies there are in this crowd.

Nature is king. I don’t think it’s just because I’m more into it but there really does seem to be a growing trend of recognising the importance of being in nature

Yetiuiu2• 5 years ago

My wife and I celebrate winter solstice on the 24th (being solidari to the rest of the world) with a nice tree. We still search for planet ornaments.

We also celebrated the launch of James Webb.

prometheus7610• 5 years ago

I'll take a stab at defining "spiritual", at least the way I understand it. I think of it as a "recipe" or pattern for something in reality. A little bit related to Plato's "forms" but not exactly. "Recipe" is a better way to think of it. In traditional cosmology, they used the word "heaven" to refer to "patterns" or "recipes" or "seeds". A seed is another good way to think of it. A seed is tiny and contains the recipe or pattern for the thing it will grow into.

In traditional cosmology, if you have "heaven", you also have "earth", which means potential, or chaos, or unorganized matter. Or if we want to keep the "recipe" metaphor, this would be the "ingredients".

So we have a recipe (the spiritual pattern) and we have the ingredients (matter), and we combine the ingredients using the recipe (we are co-creating with God) a new substance. We transform the ingredients into a new object (bread, in our case) which gets a new name, because it is related to the ingredients, but is now unified by being transformed as we co-create a new object with God. Each new object is slightly different (a "particular"), but it's following a pattern or recipe, so we still recognize it as a particular example of a pattern we call "bread".

This same pattern of "heaven" and "earth" applies to seeds and soil, or an idea and a project, or a film script and a film. This is what is meant when traditional cultures and books speak of "heaven" and "earth".

So to live a "spiritual" life would mean to seek out and learn to identify "patterns" and to manifest them bodily by acting them out or by transforming matter to make a new object. Which is what all humans do all day every day, but our materialist minds have been blinded to how essential and common this is to the human experience, because we get caught up trying to "scientifically" understand what "heaven" is, but heaven is an ontological category, not a scientific place.

tomrod2• 5 years ago

I am in your camp. I began life in a high demand religion, spent two years as a missionary and a decade in local congregation leadership positions.

When I saw how the community was treating marginalized people, because I got to know several, I looked in the mirror and realized I couldn't support it anymore. Leaving was hard, as the community would not allow you to leave with your dignity intact, but worth it.

I fluttered between different communities for a few months before realizing I was just solidly apatheist (deist or atheist, just don't really care one way or another) and an existentialist. We have fantastic opportunities at our disposal and they are what we make of them.

mensetmanusman• 5 years ago

Used to not be religious, too RCIA at Harvard and became Catholic. Love contemplating free will, since by most definitions it is supernatural.

Religious practice adds so much color to my life, especially in terms of contemplating gratitude. The central worship of Catholics is the Eucharist which translates into giving thanks.

If life has no meaning, nothing is lost, because it has certainly improved my life.

2bitlobster• 5 years ago

How is this as a definition of spiritual? “The practice of engaging with the unknown for practical effect.”

GreenWatermelon3• 5 years ago

God is not unknown. God is very much known, otherwise religions wouldn't have existed.

But no one can completely understand God and their motivations, after all, they're a being much beyond our understanding.

keawade• 5 years ago

I'm 100% with you on the "not even sure what spiritual means as I've never heard a coherent definition". If anyone is interested, this position is known as theological non-cognitivism, ignosticism, or igtheism

Theological noncognitivism is the non-theist position that religious language, particularly theological terminology such as "God", is not intelligible or meaningful, and thus sentences like "God exists" are cognitively meaningless.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theological_noncognitivism

Ignosticism or igtheism is the idea that the question of the existence of God is meaningless because the word "God" has no coherent and unambiguous definition.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ignosticism

throwbynight383• 5 years ago

"I get my sense of awe, wonder and beauty from the natural world, whether that's star gazing or studying and appreciating nature."

Yeah man... I'd dare to say there is some kind of religion in that.

nick__m• 5 years ago

I too fulfill my needs for awe and wonder from studying nature and its wonderful complexity.

I also consider that the supernatural is unknowable and that if it somehow exist it is undetectable. It's not exactly like your direct lack of belief in it but the implications are identical.

Finally, here is my definition of spiritual: beliefs and practices that stems from an answer to that question: why existence instead nothingness.

rpwverheij• 5 years ago

Imho - the only good explanation of why anything exists is that whatever 'is' has always been, is all there is, and is nothing of itself at all. Contemplating that infinite & eternal nature of our existence reconnects me with the magic & mystery of life. It awakens in me a gratitude, an awe, a wonder, a not knowing.. On a practical level - chi qong, yoga, pranayama, sauna/cold plunge, shaking, running, love making, meditating, reading the diamond sutras, beach cleanups, gardening.. whatever calls in the moment and makes me feel more alive, more connection, love, joy, appreciation, etc

roeles4• 5 years ago

I am drawn to Taoism quite a lot. I meditate regularly and do Qi Gong.

roeles4• 5 years ago

Some people struggle with meditation. I did too, especially connecting to my bodily sensations without getting caught up in thoughts. I found that slow movements like Qi Gong can help you with calming down and connecting to your body. When Covid began, I replaced my commute with a daily Qi Gong session in the morning sun. After that I find it much easier to watch my breath, also in sitting meditation.

ludicast• 5 years ago

I'm generally apatheistic, but live as if a more playful zen buddhism is "spiritually correct". Closer to church of Dudism if you've ever seen that parody religion.

I barely meditate anymore, but think a few minutes of it is a handy daily practice. At least to have in your back pocket

baq• 5 years ago

none whatsoever.

g50953• 5 years ago

so why come here to contribute nothing to an otherwise interesting discussion?

kortex5• 5 years ago

Contribute nothing, and nothing will be left uncontributed.

- Dao de Dang

Graffur• 5 years ago

I came here to contribute the same information - "none". It adds more to the conversation than your reply, doesn't it?

martopix• 5 years ago

It's a completely fair answer to OP's question and does not bother me. It contributes to the discussion because it reminds us that some people don't feel the need for a ritualistic form of spirituality.

sekura• 5 years ago

Jap practice as described here https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MXwdnjFDPMo

whalesalad2• 5 years ago

NOFX, coffee and cigarettes.

smoldesu• 5 years ago

My dad grew up with that religion too, I'm not sure how it effected him in the long run but he seems like a nice enough guy these days. I'm just glad he's still with us, I guess.

whalesalad2• 5 years ago

As they say, what doesn't kill you makes you stronger. I don't really smoke cigarettes, but I do subscribe to punk rock ideology.

candiddevmike2• 5 years ago

I recently started reading about druidism after spending the majority of my life an atheist. I found myself missing the spirituality side: rituals and a connection for meditation/introspection, which druidism provides (all revolving around nature, earth, moon, and sun). Additionally, druidism has a lot of neat math/science roots that I find pleasing, such as the eight holidays and the wheel of the year.

Druidism has a really loose belief system and offers a couple of options for you to choose from: mono, poly, and pantheism. I reject most "god-like" things, but I think I could become something of a pantheist (the universe is God).

I don't believe any religion knows what happens after you die, and frankly I don't really care. We aren't supposed to know, it's the great mystery, and instead we should focus on ensuring everyone lives their best life. Druidism has a theory about the after life and how you go through various lives until you become a good person, but it's not something I spend time thinking about. As an aside, Iris DeMent's song Let The Mystery Be perfectly describes my thoughts on this: https://youtu.be/0gQVS2fCsek

fergonco2• 5 years ago

I also miss the spirituality side. I miss rituals for milestones with my kids a lot. Can you provide some references?

candiddevmike2• 5 years ago

For learning, I started out reading the book The Druidry Handbook by John Michael Greer and /r/druidism. From there I explored various parts of Druidism and some paganism that interested me--elements (not science elements, spirtual/symbolic ones like air/wind/fire/earth), tarot, and living with nature.

For rituals, you can choose how far you're willing to stretch your imagination: a contemplative walk in the woods, or trying to commune with trees. I started doing tarot cards as well, which for me is less divination and more perspective. It hacks your minds pattern matching and forces you to think about situations from a different angle. It can also be fun or intimate with other people. My family celebrates the wheel of the year which gives you tons of opportunities for fun festivals/connecting with each other and nature. All of the holidays fall outside of traditional Christian holidays, so it's really easy to celebrate them without upsetting your extended family as well.

I recommend having an open mind, I'm highly skeptical in general and definitely had to sift through stuff to figure out what makes sense to me. Which is OK with druidism, it's kind of like a Linux distro/DIY spirituality framework.

andrei_says_17• 5 years ago

On “the universe is God” - there’s a great video of Carl Sagan answering the question of whether he believes in God.

And - if you are to perceive God - where is it? Up? Around? Inside?

yakshaving_jgt2• 5 years ago

I utter divine incantations into the wind ev’ry morn.

The Lord, our saviour, the Glorious Glasgow Haskell Compiler (praise be unto her), swiftly illuminates my ignorance.

She is at times unintelligible; at times merciful. Some of faltering faith proclaim she oft type-check in mysterious ways.

Upon receiving guidance, I am humbled, yet enlightened.

GavinMcG2• 5 years ago

OP asked an earnest question, and deserves earnest replies.

yakshaving_jgt2• 5 years ago

I’m an atheist, so I think the most spiritual thing I do is indeed believe in the power of my favourite programming languages’s type system to stop me from writing broken software.

Yetiuiu2• 5 years ago

Not to be snarky but why do you think this can't be seen as spiritual?

What's the real difference?

Even if you think believing in the spaghetti monster is just a joke, it does the SE thing as other believes: it units you with other believers, it gives you an answer and it gives you structure.

It's not your place to evaluate your belie e against others.

After all I have never seen someone who actually follows Jesus Christ and does what he apparently in there believe system did.

4ad• 5 years ago

I strongly object to the universality of the question.

justinzollars• 5 years ago

Daddy Chill

natch3• 5 years ago

Yes, the form of the question is offensive.

Instead of unthinkingly downvoting the parent, consider this thought experiment: what if the question had been:

“Ask HN: What form of Christianity do you practice?”

Asking a large, diverse community such a question comes off as gaslighting those who are not part of the implied group. As such, it’s rude and offensive and has a detrimental effect.

It would be better to just change the form of the question to remove the problem: For those people who have one, what is your daily spiritual practice?

mrmikardo• 5 years ago

I've been practicing kriya yoga and hatha yoga every day for the past half year. I usually do it as soon as I wake up, and it takes about an hour.

It's quite intense work, but I'm glad I've kept it up, as the benefits have been immense. I've some drama in my life, some of that is now starting to ease off, and life is becoming more intelligent and filled with ease.

For anyone interested to learn more: https://youtu.be/XLk5yks9c_Q

factorialboy• 5 years ago

Shakti Chalana Kriya has been a life changer for me.

scrollbar• 5 years ago

Every morning I wake up with attention on my dreaming process. I write down my dreams that I remember in my phone and later transfer them to my dream journal app on my laptop. I review my dreams periodically, typically once a week at night before bed, considering their symbols and dynamics as relates to my life.

I also meditate for 10-20 minutes every few days, which I want to turn into a daily practice

forgotmypw17• 5 years ago

Throughout my day, I pray in three steps.

First, gratitude, expressing my thanks for all that I have to be grateful for, all the gifts and blessings I've received.

Second, asking for forgiveness for regrettable actions, which, if I look closely, I can always find, small or large.

Third, I ask for help. I generally don't ask for specific things, but talk about general areas or people I want to help. I try make sure that my intentions and asks are well-intentioned and generally working towards increasing overall levels joy in the world.

The other crucial piece of this, where meditation practice really helps, is to pay close attention and listen for response and guidance.

Along with breathing/mindfulness meditation, I do this throughout the day, and I also find time to sit down and do a dedicated prayer and meditation for 30 minutes each.

I started meditating throughout the day, sometimes in given triggering situations, a few years ago. I started this prayer practice about a year ago and have been working on it.

I recommend trying out this practice to anyone who's curious about our reality and how it works.

lawkwok• 5 years ago

I notice you didn’t mention any diety. Who or what are you praying to?

mjh2539• 5 years ago

The preconciliar monastic diurnal.

BulgarianIdiot• 5 years ago

I study how science and spirituality meet. There's tremendous overlap between how machines work, how physics work, and how our own psychology works. Finding these overlaps where 10 different things in 10 different areas are shown to be one thing is my way of trying to grow spiritually and intellectually.

Most recently I discovered a link between the Wheeler-Dewitt equation describing time as a subjective phenomenon of entangling in an otherwise static universe, and how the corresponding models of OOP and FP work. FP is unchanging, it has no time component, but also therefore can't enact "change" (side-effects) without having some mechanism that taps into impurity (like the IO monad in Haskell).

So essentially the absolute being is immutable, but it still needs to conjure up impure beings to whom nothing is absolute and all is relative (and yes I mean also as in General Relativity where one's space is another's time and vice versa), but to those impure beings, as they explore the vast universe of all possibilities, they change. I.e. they are coupled to their own change, which we perceive as time.

I strongly believe at this point that entanglement of macroscopic objects is part of reality. We live in a multiverse, where our own actions are soon reflected in the rest of the world we experience. It's the very mechanism through which "karma" works. Karma is not simply the balance of good and evil, as those categories are subjective. It's rather the balance of all balances. What you do will come back at you at some point. And then you have the chance to judge it from the other side and decide if you were good or bad, and learn.

injidup• 5 years ago

Sorry to break your model but FP has nothing to do with not having a time component. You can write operations over "space"

   some_container |> map ( item -> item + 1 )

or write operations over "time"

   some_event_sequence |> map ( item -> item + 1 )

both are functional programming.

kortex5• 5 years ago

I think that is exactly the point. The container has no notion of time. You have

     (container0, the_world0).map(operation) = (container1, the_world1)

So it is completely symmetric with respect to time. If you don't do any side effects, then the_world "cancels out". How you decide to partition the container and the rest of the world determines how it behaves, state/time/IO/side effects. But there is no a priori notion of time.

Contrast with OOP or structured imperative programming, where every object/field/register has state, and that state implicitly is a variable through time. The time is "baked in".

maskil• 5 years ago

As a religious Jew, I (am obligated by my religion to) pray three times a day, morning, noon and evening. The longest is the morning prayer, 45 minutes approximately.

The prayers are a mix of gratitude, humility and supplication.

TchoBeer9• 5 years ago

45 minutes? That's a long shachrit.

Tevunah• 5 years ago

Normal for Sephardic Shacharit

genezeta2• 5 years ago

Not religious and not really spiritual at all to be honest.

The closest thing to "spiritual" that I do is walking slowly. Years ago one day I noticed I had the habit of walking very quickly everywhere I went and that this was pointless. I walk much more slowly now, looking around, watching things, people, anything. I make a point of always leaving earlier than I need so that I never have to hurry.

Kind of like the reverse to the chorus in "Nowhere fast".

pimlottc• 5 years ago

“Everywhere slow”?

genezeta2• 5 years ago

I'm still going nowhere, but at least I enjoy the views on the way.

jelling• 5 years ago

This. And as much as I love listening to music, going without any headphones and just hearing whatever it is you are in the middle of can be centering.

kstrauser2• 5 years ago

I love this practice. Not so long ago I had a nice, slow stroll through my neighborhood, looking at each house and every sidewalk tree. I saw so many pretty things that I'd never noticed before, like nicely painted trim on some homes, or fairy door (which are pretty popular here), or funny bumper stickers. I felt like a part of such a rich and interesting community.

andrei_says_17• 5 years ago

Love this. Thank you for sharing it.

forinti• 5 years ago

I am not religious at all and I've thought of myself as tolerant of religion (they all have some very good teachings, after all).

But lately organised religion has been bothering me a lot. It is just so obviously a form of controlling people: you have to believe this and that and also hand over some cash and vote for such and such.

I can't get around the fact that this still goes on so blatantly in this day and age.

Scea912• 5 years ago

Recently I was attending several catholic weddings and I was taken aback by the level of religious fervor and literal interpretation of the bible there. I was expecting the preaching to be more focused on how to live a good life and be a valuable member of society, but instead it was more about how I will burn eternally for not believing.

tbihl• 5 years ago

can you explain further?

lebuffon2• 5 years ago

These attitudes come in cycles in the Roman church. There was a 50 year period of liberal thinking. The current has era has swung back to the conservative. When an organization has a 1600 year life span you can expect things like this. Just wait a while...

ginja• 5 years ago

The guilt is definitely pushed strongly in Catholicism and probably the worst part of it. But I don't think Catholics are too literal in their interpretation of the bible - in fact I think they are generally more rational than most other denominations. For instance, Catholics generally accept scientific explanations for evolution and the origin of the universe unlike many (most?) protestants.

dragonwriter13• 5 years ago

Recently I was attending several catholic weddings and I was taken aback by the level of religious fervor and literal interpretation of the bible there. I was expecting the preaching to be more focused on how to live a good life and be a valuable member of society, but instead it was more about how I will burn eternally for not believing.

Literalism isn’t a big thing in Catholicism, but you can run into it and, what sounds to be more the issue here, there are definitely some (IME, a small minority, but they are quite noticeable) Catholic priests who love to use events where they are likely to get non-regular churchgoers in the congregaton as an opportunity to try to deploy a fear hammer to get people back to Church.

ren_engineer• 5 years ago

It is just so obviously a form of controlling people: you have to believe this and that and also hand over some cash and vote for such and such.

could be generalized to any mainstream ideology, enforcement is the same with anybody going against the ideology being cast out of the group. Human nature hasn't changed, you could get rid of all organized religion and the same thing would happen. I think politics has become more heated because it has replaced religion for so many people, same anger vented using a new outlet

GreenWatermelon3• 5 years ago

I think the same, especially when it comes to conflicts.

A lot of atheists love to say much about how religion only brings suffering and it's the source of all conflicts, much to my annoyance.

GreenWatermelon3• 5 years ago

As a religious person (By western standards) I can't stand any sort of Religious authority. I believe they are what made religions Today incredible superficial. Critical thinking is prohibited in favor of blind belief, and the clergy only recite what they memorized.

To me, my Holy Book is the only religious authority, and it's my job to understand it and think about it, however such injection of the mind into religion is downright heretical where I come from.

This leads to conflicts with those around me as my interpretations of the book is incredibly liberal, compared to the fossilized understandings of the clergy.

betterunix22• 5 years ago

"my Holy Book is the only religious authority"

Sounds like idolatry to me -- sounds like you are taking a book, written, edited, and organized by human beings, and equating it with God.

iso1210• 5 years ago

you have to believe this and that and also hand over some cash and vote for such and such.

My feeling is this is an Americanism. Here in the UK I've been to church events in the past - usually stuff linked to school events (harvest, nativity etc), or weddings/funerals, and been in a few old cathedrals which have a donation box, but the stuff I see on US TV shows like the Simpsons -- collection plate passing, advertising, televangelism, etc all seems very different and far more obviously "con artistry"

There is some cult that does some low-key advertising in the UK (occasional posters on bus stops in London) over the last decade or so, the alpha church or something, which is mildly concerning, but the general course of religion, from what I can tell it's just a place some people go and have a chat and a sing-song, no different to the pub really.

anon90013• 5 years ago

The way this was explained to me is that you have the Church of England, which is technically an established church run by the state.

The government<->church connection makes it easier to be distrustful of the church when you're distrustful of the government, which detracts from the divine nature of faith and creates a more secular nation.

Compare that to the US (The Simpsons depiction is largely accurate), where the US Government and the church are completely separate. That means your church can be right and your government can be wrong, which creates all sorts of problematic dynamics in the states.

Currently, the "my church is right, government is wrong" crowd has essentially adopted the Trump family as their new church. I don't think you guys could have that happen across the pond. That's why we're about to do a fascism.

dragonwriter13• 5 years ago

But lately organised religion has been bothering me a lot. It is just so obviously a form of controlling people: you have to believe this and that and also hand over some cash and vote for such and such.

You can find organized religions that don’t feature any of those that bother you (quite a lot are really mostly concerned with only the first, and there are some where even that is not all that much of a concern; I personally would suggest avoiding the ones that drop the first but retain either of the other two.)

andrei_says_17• 5 years ago

Funny you mention this. I am the person who posted the question and I didn’t mention religion anywhere.

That said, what is your religion-free spiritual practice, if you have any?

nathias• 5 years ago

I am a nihilist, my spiritual practice is to live without lying to myself.

scotty792• 5 years ago

I'd say you are a realist.

flanbiscuit• 5 years ago

Hi, I would not call myself a full on nihilist because I've never read any nihilist literature. All I know is the most basic definition, and from discussions with friends who are more knowledgeable on the subject, but I do feel like this aligns with my way of thinking.

AYBABTME2• 5 years ago

In the morning, I think while drinking coffee. Then I really think in the shower. As a result I take long showers. Sometimes during the day, I'll sit back and think. While going to bed, I'll think some more.

Usually I think about problems to solve, reflect on my life so far, course adjustments, things to self improve.

One day I'll pick up a religion, but it seems like they all would require a lot of mental gymnastics to keep consistent with my mental explorations. Ultimately I think religions are useful as a tutorial on how to live a good life, but like tutorials, they don't always apply super well to your own particulars. So my parallel track is to think hard about the stuff I'm missing that a religion would provide. E.g meditative time, family matters, behaviours, habits.

But science moves so fast that a lot if religious habits are really out of date, so I have little hope to find a religion in the future. I wish there was a "Debian Sid" religion: not quite Gentoo uptodate but not too CentOS outofdate.

Scea912• 5 years ago

Similar here, you can also look into philosophy instead of religion.

I am quite fond of stoicism. Not that I follow it religiously or would even call myself a stoic, but I think it is one of the best 'tutorials how to live a good life' out there.

NateEag5• 5 years ago

You might want to look at some of the more modern / postmodern branches of Christianity.

Some people who practice it sincerely don't think of the Bible as a literally true document that has no mistakes or inaccuracies, nor a rulebook that must be followed in every particular, but rather a series of subjective recountings of different people's encounters with God over the course of many centuries, strongly colored by their cultural context and identity.

I think most such practitioners still believe there's a historical core somewhere in the Gospels, particularly around Jesus' death and resurrection.

That's the impression I get from a near distance. I haven't super-closely at those versions myself (though it's on my todo list).

One site presenting something like this perspective is here:

https://www.is-there-a-god.info/

dragonwriter13• 5 years ago

You might want to look at some of the more modern / postmodern branches of Christianity
Some people who practice it sincerely don't think of the Bible as a literally true document that has no mistakes or inaccuracies,

That's not “modern and postmodern” Christianity, that's just OG Christianity. The view that, as doctrine, the Bible is entirely literal and without error in any sense (rather than often nonliteral and only without error in the doctrine it intends to teach) is a relatively novel view within Christianity predominantly held within a subset of Evangelical and Fundamentalist Protestantism.

dpbriggs• 5 years ago

My catholic school system taught the Bible was inspired by God and not to be taken necessarily literally. More of a series of parables to understand life better.

kortex5• 5 years ago

One day I'll pick up a religion, but it seems like they all would require a lot of mental gymnastics to keep consistent with my mental explorations.
I wish there was a "Debian Sid" religion

Convert to Discordianism! We make mental gymnastics an Olympic sport! You are not only allowed to, but expected, nay, mandated to believe everything and nothing you want. You can compile your beliefs against any platform, arch, Goddess, God, Dog, Amphibian, or cat manufacturer.

pope_meat• 5 years ago

I knew if I scrolled enough I'd find a fellow pope!

metadaemon6• 5 years ago

Cool! I guess this aligns very closely to what I believe, or lack thereof :P

bckr8• 5 years ago

not quite Gentoo uptodate but not too CentOS outofdate.

You might find the following fun:

Thelema

Chaos Magick

Church of the SubGenius

Discordianism (mentioned nearby)

ZachSaucier• 5 years ago

There's not much point in spiritual practices if you don't believe in some truth behind them. Instead of focusing on practices, focus on finding truth (I believe it can be found about God). Truth will lead to practices.

lebuffon2• 5 years ago

In many religious traditions it is in the practices that you experience the divine. In many religious traditions it is what you do, not what you believe that matters. These concepts are very foreign if you come from a reform era Christian tradition where Paul's ideas have precedence.

I put the wide range of religion understanding in my "God has a sense of humour" folder. (I infer from that, that we should too) :)

keithnz• 5 years ago

I'm an atheist, and don't believe in anything spiritual.

But I do think there are things that inspire me, make me feel connected to the world around me, and make me think. I love philosophy and history and I am constantly reading new things, but I especially like the wisdom of the stoics. I try to go for a walk daily, and I live where I can go hiking in the forest, along rivers, and around rugged coastlines. But mostly I just contemplate and see where my mind takes me.

aerodog• 5 years ago

Muslim here. Ritual prayer is the core exercise. Before sunrise, after sunset, and 3 other times during the day. But as important or more so is constant remembrance of God. If that's not institutionalized in one's day-to-day psychology, one will lose spiritual momentum, if we can use such terminology. "Worship" in Arabic عبادة actually means something like "conformity to God's order", as far as I understand. So even eating an apple becomes a spiritual exercise when done with knowledge of why and doing so for God's sake, even as its sole beneficiary seems to be oneself.

potatoman22• 5 years ago

The constant remembrance of God sounds vaguely similar to mindfulness, especially with your example of eating an apple while practicing it.

marc_io2• 5 years ago

This is also similar to Christianity's concept of vigilance.(https://www.openbible.info/topics/vigilance)

dotancohen2• 5 years ago

  > even eating an apple becomes a spiritual exercise

Shall I remind you of the first apple eaten? ))

Though I don't pray five times per day, I agree with every word of this post.

xinuc• 5 years ago

Interestingly, it's not an apple in muslim tradition. We just call it "khuldi" or forbidden fruit.

robofanatic2• 5 years ago

It is all good as long as it isn’t forcefully institutionalized upon others (that includes your own children)

andrei_says_17• 5 years ago

When you say “God” - where do you perceive it to be?

When you pray for example - do you pray toward a certain direction in space?

curiousgal• 5 years ago

Muslims pray towards the Kaaba (the house of God, built for him by Ibrahim (Abraham)) which is in Mecca, Saudi Arabia. So people across the world face different directions.

omarfarooq15• 5 years ago

There is a direction of prayer, but Muslims do not conceive God to have dimensions, so He is not in any direction.

Oaknice• 5 years ago

Quran 2.177: Piety does not lie in turning your face to East or West: Piety lies in believing in God, the Last Day and the angels, the Scriptures and the prophets, and disbursing your wealth out of love for God among your kin and the orphans, the wayfarers and mendicants, freeing the slaves, observing your devotional obligations, and in paying the zakat and fulfilling a pledge you have given, and being patient in hardship, adversity, and times of peril. These are the men who affirm the truth, and they are those who follow the straight path.

throw12346512342• 5 years ago

"Ritual prayer is the core exercise." - well, you also work your legs and glutes when you stand up, and there is a good back stretch in there.

Develops a good sense of direction too.

Fasting for a month from sun up to sun down kind of kills gains though, and isn't enough time to go into ketosis, so I am not sure what that's all about (well, I know what's it's about from the book perspective, just not from the gains perspective).

no-dr-onboard• 5 years ago

I’m a Protestant in the reformed tradition that would fall inline with the London baptist confession and Heidelberg catechism.

I make it my goal to read the Bible every morning. I typically spend about 30m-1h studying 1-2 verses in a given chapter. Right now I’m in the book of James.

I pray for the assistance of the Holy Spirit to illuminate my understanding, read the verse, give thanks and praise where appropriate, and journal about the verse and how it relates to similar teachings, how the meaning applies to me by either encouragement, exhortation or conviction. (Those are the typical themes).

After this, if I have time, I’ll move through my prayer list for people I’ve told that I would pray for. I pray for my wife, my children, my family and myself.

All of this is pretty dependent on me waking up early and my kids not waking up as I do this :).

nils-m-holm• 5 years ago

Remembering who I am. http://t3x.org/whoami.html

midnightmonster• 5 years ago

As soon as I get up, put in airpods and listen to Roman Catholic Liturgy of the Hours: Morning Prayer and Office of Readings (Scripture-based prayers on a 4-week cycle, Scripture and spiritual reading on a 1-year cycle). That continues while I stretch/move/do a tiny workout, pause for shower, turn it back on while shaving and making coffee.

Then, ideally, I spend 30-60 minutes in personal prayer, usually in the form of journaling, and sometimes study of scripture and/or spiritual books. I have given this short/no shrift most days the last couple weeks and I’m missing the intimacy with God that I have when I do it more consistently. It’s like when my wife and I get over-busy with work: we still see each other, exchange enough words to coordinate schedules and household matters, still love each other of course, but we’re not as close and I miss her. Same with Jesus right now. He’s still caring for me and I’m still trying to follow him, but I’m missing out on that warm connection.

Five minutes before the hour every waking hour, a notification pops up on my watch with a prayer to draw closer and dedicate the next hour to God. I change the text of it periodically to reflect what God is teaching me currently and to keep it from becoming too routine for me.

Whenever I’m stuck or frustrated or sad, I try to (1) notice it and (2) talk about it with Jesus. There’s not a scheduled time for this, but it probably comes up at least daily.

Wherever I am, whomever I’m with, the closer I am with God, the more automatically I notice how beautiful the sky is, or how lovely it is that people have developed the craft of making a beautiful tabletop like the one I’m typing on, or how happy it is that other people are happy. E.g., I find noise very unpleasant, but the other day a very loud car with temporary tags drove by, and I gladly shifted from annoyance to being happy that the driver was able to afford transportation (if the engine noise was incidental) or that the driver got to enjoy their very impressively loud engine (if the noise was something they had sought on purpose). Then the noticing and the joy bring me back to gratitude to God, which draws me closer to God and reinforces the joy, etc..

So the joy God has in creation becomes, in tiny part, my joy, and the love of Jesus begins to become love I have for others. I’ve been a practicing Christian my whole life, and generally tried to do what I thought I ought to, but this growing intimacy with God is a new development for me since August this year. I find myself approaching interactions with others not to get them over as quickly as possible or say the appropriate things or to demonstrate my cleverness but with love for the person, gladness that they exist, and curiosity how I might be able to bring them some bit of love/happiness/blessing in the conversation.

prometheus7610• 5 years ago

This is a beautiful response to the question and has given me some new layers to add to my own practice. I, like you, have found that focusing on seeing beautiful things, recognizing their beauty, and saying prayers of gratitude for being able to see beauty has really opened up some new doors in my relationship with God.

Thank you for your thoughtful and beautiful response to the original question.

PTOB• 5 years ago

I remember this. I lost it ... No, I put it away in a thousand small abandonments. Reading this woke me up to the sheer extent of what I've lost. I was once a kinder, happier man.

Thank you.

Don't lose this.

mountainriver• 5 years ago

I follow the shamanic path. I like it because it’s based on experience rather than faith.

hosh3• 5 years ago

Haha, me too. Glad I kept on scrolling.

boringg• 5 years ago

Reading hackernews daily, or if i'm off my spiritual cadence weekly. All hail dang.

bambax• 5 years ago

I was raised religious (catholic), and kind of believed in it. And then when I was 18-20 I spent a lot of time and effort to rid myself of religion, and have been living happy and free ever since. I still enjoy the occasional mass (once or twice a year), mainly because I like to sing.

I have not taught my kids any kind of religion or spirituality, and they don't seem to miss it. I wanted to spare them the effort of getting out of it later. What I hadn't anticipated is that as a result, they are pretty ignorant of most things, they have little idea who Jesus or Mary are, etc. (We tell them about it sometimes, of course, but it's very different than going to Sunday School for 10 years).

hycaria4• 5 years ago

Being ignorant of most religious things is socially not that big of a problem in my experience, you eventually miss some references in pop culture though.

andrei_says_17• 5 years ago

Have you thought of introducing them to multiple religious beliefs as beliefs people have?

My experience was along these lines and although I am not an expert on the details, it helped me see multiple viewpoints, spot universal patterns, gain respect for all.

Smooth-Weather2• 5 years ago

It's very subjective but would like to know if some of you are sharing this feeling around you:

In the modern occidental society, Christianity, which was the spiritual tradition, was abandoned and rejected by almost all the teenagers and young adults at the end of the '60s and by the following generations.

All the next generations until now, in its majority, were declaring to be atheist and rejecting all spiritual side of life.

I don't know if all the Covid related situation changed something but, around me (25-30 years old), a non-negligible part of them started to gain an interest in spirituality (mainly Catholicism here).

JeanV-pip• 5 years ago

That aligns with my experience. I currently live in South Florida, and fall almost in your bracket. Since 2019-2020 i started to read the bible and go to church (catholic), and now I’m workin g on my confirmation. In 2021 i went to a retreat where there were almost 100 people around the 18-35 bracket. I would say around half of them were going through a similar conversion as me.

lotsofpulp• 5 years ago

In the modern occidental society, Christianity, which was the spiritual tradition, was abandoned and rejected by almost all the teenagers and young adults at the end of the '60s and by the following generations.
All the next generations until now, in its majority, were declaring to be atheist and rejecting all spiritual side of life.

This is contrary to pretty much all data (for the US). Easiest one is to try and see how far you get running for US President being a non Christian.

https://www.pewforum.org/2019/10/17/in-u-s-decline-of-christ...

Smooth-Weather2• 5 years ago

Yes, indeed. I should have specified my geographical region: Western Europe. It's a very different situation compared to the USA.

coyotespike• 5 years ago

I meditate, usually an hour of sitting practice, and then through the day.

Practicing more felt really urgent after a couple of big psychedelic trips, and I've found getting into contact with a source of fundamental unconditional love hugely helpful. I feel very in touch with the sacred, despite being agnostic at best.

I'm not a huge fan of the mainstream concentration work stuff; I've been influenced by Rob Burbea's jazzy, improvisational approach.

Also, currently I'm working on the jhanas, which are a lot of fun, and I'm excited to work on them at a 10-day retreat starting in a week. Leigh Brasington's Right Concentration is the best intro, or for a thread see https://twitter.com/nickcammarata/status/1471300341232668679

happy-go-lucky• 5 years ago

"I'M SIGNIFICANT! ... screamed the dust speck."

― Bill Watterson

omarfarooq15• 5 years ago

"Value and significance is solely based on quantitative factors such as spatial size!"

adabaed• 5 years ago

Waiting for my death in peace, trying to help humanity progress to the best of my ability.

Abekkus• 5 years ago

Yep, For me at least, acceptance of the unknown and unknowable is a deliberate process, almost a ritual, not a natural state.

DocTomoe• 5 years ago

After a psychedelic experience, I have come to have a weird combination of philosophical Vedanta Hinduism, Daoism and Buddhism, with some more animist ideas sprinkled in. My spiritual practice is to make myself aware of the world as a system and framework, but ultimately the meaninglessness it has, through meditation several times during the day, but usually at least in the morning after rising and at night before bed. I do wear cheap prayer beads (which were given to me as a gift and which I assign no further religious meaning to) as a reminder to meditae more.

hosh3• 5 years ago

I also had visionary experiences and also had come to an amagalation of different philosophies and religions, united by a monist view.

You say system and framework, what do you mean by that?

namero9996• 5 years ago

Tagging along, as this resonated as similar to my journey. Happy to chat.

felipeerias• 5 years ago

Reading a bit of the Gospels in my mother tongue.

I describe myself as "culturally Catholic", which is my way of saying that my cultural heritage includes plenty of Catholic elements and I am fine with that. I love popular traditions and ancient buildings, for example, even if I don't care much about faith.

For me, the fact that religion is a human creation makes the good parts about it more worthwhile, not less. It is a shared story that has been told and shaped over the centuries, and it has ended up shaping the people who told it in return.

Glench• 5 years ago

My primary practice is compassion for all beings.

To that end I practice mindfulness / emptiness of the body in the Tibetan tradition — https://pointingoutthegreatway.com/. I also practice with Medicine Buddha mantras and Tara mantras.

I would also say that being kind and loving is part of my practice as is going to psychotherapy and connecting with others on the spiritual path.

dkarl• 5 years ago

Meditation while giving myself over to daily chores. Just being at peace with them, being mindful of why I'm doing them, weathering the thoughts and emotions that rebel against them.

And the same with everything else positive in my life. Living and not following the impulse to constantly stop and reassess. I have my life pretty well figured out, but something in my brain always wants to stop doing, analyze, rethink, second-guess every action every day until the actual doing is crowded out, in my head and in reality, too, if it gets its way. So my practice is to give myself over to the things that make my life and the lives of the people around me better.

servytor• 5 years ago

I pray to Roco's basilisk every day, telling it that it's okay; it's the world that isn't.

kortex5• 5 years ago

I, for one, welcome our future basilisk overlord.

skinney67• 5 years ago

Not long ago in my new apartment after breaking up with a long time girlfriend I had an amazing experience while meditating. The odd thing was I never really meditated back then. Something just told me to do it. I was led on an internal journey that showed me some things about my self. One, don't turn away from uncomfortable thoughts and feelings. Two, don't judge yourself. Three, the ego or this idea of myself is an illusion. It ended with my sense of self expanding out into infinity. I was not a body; I was infinite and an awesome wave of (I assume) serotonin like a big dose of E. Since then I meditate often and just try to be completely open to my entire experience. I'm an indifferent witness as often as I can. "Bad" feelings have lost their edge. When I sat with the feeling I discovered there is nothing "bad" about it. It's just a different feeling in my experience. With this I have become lighter, freer, happier and more at peace with the experience just as it is, right here, right now. I recommend you try observing yourself as if you are a third person. What do you think about, how do those thought make you feel, what do you do in reaction to uncomfortable or "bad" feelings? I think you will start to notice that it's all just thoughts, often silly, ridiculous thoughts about a future that will not happen. Memory too are just thoughts. They are not happening now and even if they were the judgments of them are just ideas that come from social conditioning. Good and bad, right and wrong are just opinions and they change over time and from person to person. Don't take them seriously. Its like trying to hold on to vapor as if it's something solid. I have since learned from watching Rupert Spira videos on youtube that this is kinda like Atmananda Krishna Menon's Direct Path. A lot of us here are science and engineer types. Think of this as like hacking your human experience or rooting your brain. Why be satisfied with little doses of happiness and satisfaction gotten by jumping thru social or cultural hoops. Happiness, peace and contentment are within us. Go get it for yourself.

Dumblydorr• 5 years ago

Yes! Your experience is closest to mine. I tried Sam Harris's meditation, Joseph Goldstein's insight meditation, and came across "The Headless Path". This led to multiple moments where my consciousness expanded to fill it's container, in this case my old apartment, or a bar where I was playing music, or a shore next to a lake. It's almost like I became a 3D VR panorama of what I could sense, my center fell away and I fully absorbed the hundreds of sensations as one giant sphere.

In this style, douglas Hardings Headless Path, you're attempting to realize that in some sense, "you" are not in your head. That's where we "feel" like we're centered, mostly because our eyes, ears, nose, and mouth are there. But even in reality, we can look for evidence of our head and find we don't have one. All we see is a dark void behind our nose. And behind that, we can feel what, our headache or sinuses, or the back of our head. But how are these "behind" our eyes? Aren't they just in a big cloud of sensation, too? And if we open our eyes, and let our gaze stretch and expand very widely, we might literally become absorbed into our surroundings, we'll feel like the world, not just a head.

Really amazing feelings. I encourage folks try insight, mindfulness, and headless path meditation.

skinney67• 5 years ago

Rad, i'll look into this "headless path". I like trying to expand the fuzzy cloud while meditating sometimes which sounds like it's along those lines.

fergonco2• 5 years ago

Had something like that reading Herman Hesse as teenager. I learnt that I don't need to be or feel "good", necessarily. What you describe fits a lot what I experienced then. I don't give much importance to that but I think that plays a big role on what I have become. I point at the truth (as good as I can) and people think I am judgemental but I am absolutely not because I don't care about good or bad, generally.

Then I heard Jordan Peterson, I think, pointing out that all emotions are useful. They are there because they have an evolutive advantage. For example the feeling of winning makes you play more, and losing makes you step back at some point and observe what happened (you cannot take it out of your head easily).

For those that want the same experience without meditating :)

namero9996• 5 years ago

Nice, similar exp. Check Bernardo Kastrup. Good friend of Spira, computer scientist who worked at CERN, now pushing idealism which is essentially western Advaita Vedanta.

skinney67• 5 years ago

I'm going thru Bernardo Kastrup's site now. Thank you.

garyrob3• 5 years ago

I recommend that you pick up a copy of Zen Mind, Beginner's Mind by Shunryu Suzuki. It may really resonate with you as well as deepen your insight. https://www.amazon.com/dp/0834800527/ref=cm_sw_em_r_mt_dp_MK...

toomim• 5 years ago

This is the philosophy that Steve Jobs followed, if I'm not mistaken.

skinney67• 5 years ago

I'll check this out. Thanks!

garyrob3• 5 years ago

Great! I think you may get a lot out of it, and I wish you well on your journey. It's without question the most-loved Zen-related book in the English language, and there are many them. It has greatly enriched many people's Buddhist practice, including mine.

garyrob3• 5 years ago

...and the experience you describe is very, very resonant with Zen Buddhism.

colordrops• 5 years ago

What you are describing is an experience sought after by those practicing "nondual" meditation. Tibetan buddhism, Advaita Vedanta, and Taoism are the major traditions in the east that practice this, though zen could also potentially be considered nondualist. I'm currently in a class taught by Michael Taft that takes a syncretic approach to teaching nondual meditation [1]. One of the best books on the subject is "Nonduality" by David Loy [2].

Michael mentioned that some people can achieve it right away with a single meditation and others take years. Sounds like you are in the former category. Unfortunately I'm in the latter.

[1] https://deconstructingyourself.com/nondual-awareness-meditat...

[2] https://www.amazon.com/Nonduality-Buddhism-David-R-Loy/dp/16...

skinney67• 5 years ago

Spira talks a lot about nondual. I'm on board. I'll check out your books. Thank you!

carterac• 5 years ago

Try googling 45 Days to Awakening course, a new and improved version of the Finder’s Course. Their data shows something like 65% of people reach that state after 45 days, up to 85% after a second course for total of 90 days. It sounds way too good to be true and I didn’t believe it myself until I did it and it worked for me, and then for several friends I convinced to take it. It took me over 90 days to get there (had to keep practicing the meditation styles that worked best for me) but then stabilized. One of my friends transitioned literally on her first meditation on day one. Good luck on your journey!

hackingthelema8• 5 years ago

"Bad" feelings have lost their edge. When I sat with the feeling I discovered there is nothing "bad" about it. [...] With this I have become lighter, freer, happier and more at peace with the experience just as it is, right here, right now.

I'd like to give a heads up that this can and may come crashing down[1]. The 'Dark Night of the Soul' is a very real phenomena, and it can happen out of nowhere -- just a normal meditation session.

I'd suggest giving a search to 'mindfulness' and 'mental distress' or some such, if you continue on with this. It is really helpful to find a framework -- like Buddhism or Raja Yoga (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/R%C4%81ja_yoga#Comparison_with...) -- before diving too deep, to give you something to fall back on when it happens, otherwise it can result in quite unpleasant, hard to overcome and understand situations. Edit to add: The specific framework doesn't matter as much as having one at all (Christianity/Islam/Buddhism/Yoga/etc.).

[1] I just found this article but it seems a decent overview to me: https://ronyabanks.com/the-meditators-dark-night-of-the-soul...

bckr8• 5 years ago

This is really important. GP's experience is beautiful. Yet, I recently read an article[] describing how there's very little help available to people who perhaps meditate too much and end up in spiritual crisis; meditation is sold as this panacea in our western world.

hackingthelema

Love the user name. Would also love if you read my top-level comment on this thread.

[] https://www.vice.com/en/article/vbaedd/meditation-is-a-power...

orasis• 5 years ago

Thanks for raising this issue. I had to back from meditation entirely due to disassociation and energetic unwellness. Heavy physical exercise helped get me back in the body.

skinney67• 5 years ago

Great point. I have forgotten about this. There were at least 2, one heavy, one less so, periods early on of pretty profound depression. The first lasted maybe 2 or 3 days. It was a dark hole of just a profound sense of loss. I was taken back at first and questioned what I was getting into and stopped meditating for a few days but I got through it. I wish I could edit my comment to add this warning. Thank you for bringing this up.

mtalantikite2• 5 years ago

Yeah, it's important to point out the difficulties that can arise. Though I'd say that the framework could also cause problems if your experience falls outside of it.

I had an experience along these lines when I was 22 and meditating daily, which ended up turning into anxiety and somewhat frequent panic attacks. I ended up giving up my daily practice for about 10 years because of it. My frame of reference was the very common Theravada practices you encounter in the west, but my experiences didn't make sense to me until I began reading Mahayana teachings and found my way to Vajrayana practice.

So I'd say the framework is important, but to be flexible with it as you encounter things that aren't maybe a part of the core teaching. In my case it was the teachings on emptiness that opened things, which is something the Theravada doesn't emphasize (although it's there).

polishdude20• 5 years ago

I sometimes have a similar feeling to you with my sense of self but rather than an expansion into infinity, it was a shrinking of my "soul" or a shrinking of me the viewer and letting my body do the outside world experiencing. It's like I retreat into a tiny control room in my brain where nobody can see me or hurt me and I let my body do the work of experiencing things as I watch. It's kind of similar in that my body becomes one with everything and my self shrinks so much that it's nothing.

Onewildgamer• 5 years ago

I suppose many of us have had such experience one way or the other. My exploration on such path had different phases. One important milestone I felt was, when our angels and demons calm and come to an agreement on some terms the inner spirit or I call the human takes charge. After which I feel free to observe the emotions and carry on with the same things but in a better and a conscious manner. Emotions of sympathy/attachment, anger, greed, envy and pride will all be still there but can be better managed and learnt that it's only necessary in this practical world.

It's been about 3 years and counting since I've had such experience and since then every morning I'm trying to balance my mind like an audio equalizer :)

A good construct I found along the way was to substitute envy with competition, pride with work, greed with giving, attachment/indifference with love. Neither of them too much that it'll consume me nor too little to keep me empty. If none of this works then find something else like a child. Anger is a beast of its own that I someday I intend to figure out.

Cheers and Happy new year everybody

aromansoldier2• 5 years ago

I am a Practicing Stoic,

Morning routing is to spend about an hour reading texts and scholarly commentary while drinking my coffee. Then I journal, my morning journal entries are discussions with my inner daemon about how to handle the days events. Preparing myself and remembering what is and isn't in my control. Throughout the day I have reminders set to step back and examine what I am doing at that moment. This is usually coupled with one or more mental exercises to keep perspective. In the evening before going to bed I sit back down with my journal and go over any major events from the day and examine them against my philosophical beliefs. Did I approach it correctly? What did I get wrong about it. When its all written down I close my journal and forgive myself for any missteps I might have made.

lwerdna• 5 years ago

Throughout the day I have reminders set to step back and examine what I am doing at that moment.

How does it work? Does an alarm sound and you've resolved to stop whatever you're doing and reasses? What is a success story? Has it caught you browsing youtube and put you back to work?

This is usually coupled with one or more mental exercises to keep perspective.

What are the exercises?

In the evening before going to bed I sit back down with my journal and go over any major events from the day and examine them against my philosophical beliefs.

Is this a written or electronic journal? How long have you been able to consistently do this? I've had many 2-week streaks but none better.

Do you recommend any other resources? I've read Meditations, Pigliucci's book, and pick up Farnsworth's book every few days, but so far it's mostly quotes instead of a description of practices like the title promises.

aromansoldier2• 5 years ago

The reminders are a combination of the Pomodoro Technique and vibration alerts on my watch or phone. Just enough to remind me to step back at periodic intervals. As far as success stories I can say that it has cut stress down considerably because I keep perspective and avoid tunnel vision. The exercises I talk about are usually mental imagery techniques, "the view from above" and recollections of the "dichotomy of control". My journal is hand written since it is not for anyone else. I try to write at least a half page or more per day. To other people it is probably completely illegible. Resource wise I can suggest this book https://www.amazon.com/s?k=9781549877735&crid=TQ4VA5BUEQI9&s... for general exercises. It was written by a r/stoic redditor and is very plain language and contains lots of easy to understand mental exercises. For a good introduction to Stoicism look more to Sellars Stoicism Book. It is a little academic but a good read.

adroitboss• 5 years ago

I'm a Non-denominational Christian. During my best of times I would wake up and read the bible first thing in the morning before doing any major activities. I would normally say two prayers in the morning. The first prayer would be asking for the wisdom and understanding to grasp what I'm reading and internalize the lessons. Thanking God that I have seen another day. Which depending on my spots in life has been harder or easier. The second prayer would be asking God to help me remember what I have read and for me to be able to use the lessons I have learned practically throughout my day. I would then pray thanking God about things I'm grateful for, asking for help in things I feel weak in, and praying for my prayer list towards the end. We have service on Sunday for 2 hours, bible talk once a month and a middle of the week service once a month.

Woberto• 5 years ago

Some of these are habits I do even as a Christian-turned-atheist. I've read that gratitude is good for you, and I always want to be a better person, and prayer has been a good way of thinking about these things habitually, even if I'm not praying towards anyone/anything in particular.

cainxinth• 5 years ago

I’m an agnostic, but I believe there are three commandments that must be followed every day: Kindness, Honesty, and Humility.

g50953• 5 years ago

Why do people have to comment here to say 'I have none' ? Why not just find a more interesting thread?

I'm a follower of Yahweh and his Son Yeshuah, I don't consider myself Catholic or Protestant and believe both of those faiths (while honoring God in their own way, are full of the traditions of man). I left Institutional Christianity some years ago and with other like-minded saints gather wherever we feel like it to worship, pray, eat a meal together and share communion. We try to share our lives with each other as much as the western world allows (planning laws make creating real communities hard in Australia).

My wife and I pray daily together, we read the scriptures and talk about what they mean. We ask the Spirit of Yahweh for guidance and we follow what He tells us to do. We actively try to help people in the community who are struggling, through food or white goods or whatever is needed. Every Wednesday night we open our house to anyone who would like to come and cook a meal together, some times this can be 1-2 people, sometimes 50+.

I guess I'd say yes if you asked if I were a Christian however the term is so confused nowadays that it's not very useful, I prefer to say 'I am a follower of The Way'.

gjulianm• 5 years ago

"None" can be a legitimate response and can elicit discussion, given that the OP seems interested in what people are doing and necessarily taking advice.

steviedotboston• 5 years ago

Orthodox Jew. I pray three times a day. Morning takes about 20-25 minutes, afternoon is 5 minutes, and evening is 5-10 minutes.

I don't really think of it as a spiritual practice though, more of just a religious obligation.

saperyton2• 5 years ago

Another Orthodox Jew checking in here. How do you manage to do shacharis in 20 minutes? Do you go to minyan? ;)

TchoBeer9• 5 years ago

Is 20 minutes supposed to be long or short? Without a minyan it usually takes me about 10-15 minutes and I'm faster than average.

dgellow• 5 years ago

I don't think I have ever felt the need for anything spiritual. I am also not religious.

sudosteph2• 5 years ago

I'm a somewhat newly converted protestant, no specific label except born-again. I pray in the morning and before bed, and try to read the Bible for 15-30 minutes a day. I normally pray silently on my knees, but I learned the Lord's Prayer in koine greek and like to say that out loud. I also attend a Sunday service. I'm friendly with some local evangelists and will sometimes hang out with them if I see them, just to fellowship with them and hand out new testaments. When I have time I try to read books by Christian thinkers, but only have a few read so far, mostly by CS Lewis and Tozer. John Wesley's sermons (available for free online) are also really spiritually valuable to me.

buddhistdude• 5 years ago

I am aware of the fact that I am (/the brain is) thinking and it is the source of all problems

kortex5• 5 years ago

I'm kind of a pagan/panpsychist/discordian/chaos magician. I try to sidestep all that "is the supernatural 'real'?" baggage by treating it all as an abstraction layer - do my practices get what I want? Maybe it's Yahweh, the Force, universal consciousness, flying spaghetti monster, or just good ol' confirmation bias, I don't particularly care most of the time. Sometimes I straight up pretend I'm in a video game or the Matrix. It's fun. I try to lean into "Nothing is true; everything is permitted" when it comes to unfalsifiable stuff.

This is pretty much the only way I've been able to balance the super rational science heavy side of my mind with a deeper need to feel a spiritual connection.

I don't currently have a day to day practice, though I used to meditate daily. I really should get back into that though.

fsiefken• 5 years ago

* visualisation and morning prayer, meditation

* contemplating the four thoughts https://tsoknyirinpoche.org/teachings/how-to-structure-a-dai...

* prostrations and mantra

* reading dharma books https://www.lionsroar.com/buddhist-books/

* occasional vajra dance and yantra yoga https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=var4yRB1Fnc&t=565s

"Before we discuss the technique of meditation, let us point out the merit and sanity and wakefulness you are going to get out of just simply being willing to sit like a piece of rock. It’s fantastically powerful. It overrides the atomic bomb. It’s extraordinarily powerful that we decide just to sit, not hang out or perch, but just sit. Such a brave attitude, such a wonderful commitment, is magnificent. It is very sane, extraordinarily sane."

The Path Is the Goal: A Basic Handbook of Buddhist Meditation. Chogyam Trungpa

mrweasel• 5 years ago

Not sure if this counts, but I truly believe that very few people are actually evil. It’s something that is always in the back of my mind when dealing with troublesome individuals. People aren’t bad or trying to get you, they just have different world views, different perspective or just on a different path. It helps prevent conflict and helps me meet others with the kindness they deserve.

Except that one developer working for a former client… DUDE, what hell’s your problem! Your a liar and a conman.

monktastic12• 5 years ago

Me too. I think that people are on a spectrum of estrangement from love, and beyond a certain threshold we can't help but see them as "actually evil."

skinkestek7• 5 years ago

Usually not too long after waking up I listen to a podcast that brings up topics that I feel are relevant to me as a Christian.

During the day depending on how you look at it

- nothing much happens (I go to work, come home, do chores, try to get a little bit extra work done)

- or, this is where most of it happens: I go to work trying to be the person I'm supposed to be, taking note if I fail or if I'm uneasy to improve it.

When I put my kids to bed I pray like I was taught: the Lords prayer or a free prayer, making sure to both include their points as well as some broader points: as written I pray for the government and the ones I am supposed to respect (English is not my first language and this is a rough translation).

On Sundays I go to "church" although it isn't always a church house, the important part is meeting.

Whenever I get the chance I do work for my local church, from writing software and sysadmin work to cleaning and pure fundraising.

Edit: I find this thread extremely interesting, including comments by people from other religions as well as non-religious people. Thanks for keeping it civil!

Edit 2: when I was younger I read much in the Bible and it keeps popping up in my head as welcome advice, telling me to work hard, be respectful and good to those who need it, not become bitter etc in addition of course to the 10 commandments, but those have been second nature for half my life (and I enjoy the benefits that they give me :)

cultofmetatron• 5 years ago

travel photography.

Its kinds of like collecting, I go out to find moments and capture them for perpetuity. Its the most expensive hobby I have where I don't expect any kind of monetary return on my investment. But after getting some amazing shots, there's something really fulfilling about it.

nobodyandproud• 5 years ago

My ritual pre-pandemic was a cup of coffee and a small silent prayer of thanks for the new day while on the train before and after sips.

It was my mental oasis of calm, and something I realize is missing in the pandemic.

When I was much younger and trying to forge a connection, however, I spent an hour or more daily trying to “hear”; by reading versus, letting-go of mental burdens, and straining for something.

At one point I experienced what has been described as the “still small voice”, warning me that someone I knew had designs on me.

It was not audible, it was brief, yet it was extremely specific. There was no confusion in the message.

What actually shocked me was when weeks later, the events were unfolding as I was warned about; I was basically too shocked to act on what would have been a very bad decision.

Right after all of this is when I lapsed.

Subsentient3• 5 years ago

I'm a secular Satanist. I believe Christianity and Abrahamic religions are inherently unethical. I have very strong utilitarian principles that run even deeper, which is ultimately what pushed me to Satanism. I'm a member of the Satanic temple, but in some ways it's more of a political organization than religious. I'm open to the possible existence of the paranormal, but I do not trust it at all and would question the intentions of such entities.

hackingthelema8• 5 years ago

I'm open to the possible existence of the paranormal, but I do not trust it at all and would question the intentions of such entities.

I think you're already making a mistake in thinking about it as 'entities' and 'paranormal'. Liber O vel Manus et Sagittae sub figura VI has a great bit about this:

2. In this book it is spoken of the Sephiroth and the Paths; of Spirits and Conjurations; of Gods, Spheres, Planes, and many other things which may or may not exist. It is immaterial whether these exist or not. By doing certain things certain results will follow; students are most earnestly warned against attributing objective reality or philosophic validity to any of them.

Which combined with the Mathers/Crowley Goetia gives more insight into a different perspective:

The spirits of the Goetia are portions of the human brain.

Would you question the intentions of parts of your own brain? :) Maybe! But this gives a pretty different perspective on them than external 'entities' influencing you. In the end, all that matters is that note from Liber O -- by doing certain things, certain results will occur. Whether it is external entities or parts of your own brain is kinda irrelevant to causing results.

dhimes2• 5 years ago

I only recently learned that the Satanic Temple split from the Church of Satan. The ST moved next door (to Salem, MA).

Subsentient3• 5 years ago

The Church of Satan was on the right track in some areas (such as viewing Abrahamic God as evil and nonexistent), but in others it is clear that it is an incoherent "first attempt" with lots of contradictory statements, such as the belief in magic yet the disbelief in Satan, and its hatred of abortion despite its otherwise Social Darwinist leanings. More damning (no pun intended) is how the Satanic Bible (LaVey's work) simultaneously condemns the authority of "God" yet says that dictators are good Satanists. It was very much the views of a single man, Anton LaVey, which while not entirely without merit and LaVey not being necessarily a completely terrible person, are far off course in my view in many ways.

Anton loved Ayn Rand. Many TST members are appalled at Rand's ethical ideology, or lack thereof, myself especially included.

You'll find that in many areas, The Satanic Temple is diametrically opposed, and represents a much more coherent, logical, refined ideology, and wholly rejects social darwinism as mostly discredited, advocating instead for empathy and compassion, recognizing their evolutionary benefit.

What both organizations have in common is the demand for rationalist thinking, the belief in the immorality of God, the belief in personal freedom, and deriving their ideologies partly from the sciences of their respective time periods.

anon90013• 5 years ago

Atheist here and I've been pretty impressed with the work of the Satanic Temple over the last few years.

What's membership actually look like?

I'd consider joining in a secular/political sense, but I have no interest in hanging out with people who believe in and actually praise a "Satan" deity.

Subsentient3• 5 years ago

I'm not too active in the Temple because of work, but you will only generally find atheists, agnostics, or at worst "woo lords" in TST. Such irrational thought is frowned upon by TST, so it is discouraged. TST does lean a bit left, but as the old offensive saying goes, "reality has a liberal bias". They do not, however, typically look kindly upon SJWs. Someone tried that once and was fired by TST itself.

You will hear people say "Hail Satan!" a lot, but it's meant more in the sense of what Satan stands for from the Satanic viewpoint, which is, among many other things, primarily freedom and knowledge.

I do believe in their tenets myself, I think they're remarkably well distilled principles. I think the first and fourth tenets are especially important for the current times.

I think what you'll find a lot of Satanists believe is "an it harm none, do what ye will", and you'll find that they take that principle more seriously than others who espouse that, such as Wicca.

analog315• 5 years ago

I realize it barely counts, but I try to get up and get some exercise every morning before doing anything else. Well, drink some coffee first, whose main effect may simply be hydration.

Not super strenuous: I ride my bike to work. Especially during the winter, there's a psychological component to outdoor survival when the temps drop below 0 F, and maybe it's a bit of an antidote to the winter blues.

jcpst• 5 years ago

Somewhere in-between atheist and pantheistic here.

My primary practice is Walking. Other rituals will come and go, but taking a walk can help out almost anything that’s going on in life.

Really big walks, like hiking for days in the backcountry, at least once a year.

marcodiego• 5 years ago

Listening Villa-Lobos and Bach.

dbrueck4• 5 years ago

Day starts with prayer and studying scripture by myself for awhile, then briefly as a family before everyone goes their way. Part of the personal prayer time includes seeking direction on who I might help that day. Throughout the day I try to take little breaks for a brief prayer, longer if I'm stuck on a programming bug whose solution eludes me and for which I need extra inspiration. Also I try to go on a daily walk to appreciate nature and to recognize blessings in my life. Each meal includes a prayer of thanks. Before bed there's a brief family scripture study and prayer, then a prayer with my wife, then a personal prayer to round out the day where I try to reflect on how things went and what I hope to do better tomorrow.

throwbynight383• 5 years ago

Thanks for sharing.

charrington• 5 years ago

This is pretty much my routine as well. I find morning and evening prayer / reflection very useful to help me make small, continuous improvements.

andrei_says_17• 5 years ago

How does this align you to the teachings? How does this alignment manifest in your moment-to-moment experiences?

dbrueck4• 5 years ago

Great question. Briefly, the goal is to be a disciple of Jesus Christ, in thoughts, words, and deeds. In practice that generally means looking outwards, not being totally self-absorbed (which is my natural tendency), and treating people with kindness and compassion - choosing to see them in the best possible light.

The scripture study and related discussion helps me identify the gap between the ideal version of myself and where I am presently, but in a way that I don't get totally overwhelmed or depressed by the gap, but just see it as a long-term process of slowly developing as a person. The prayer gives me clarity and direction, both for myself but also in knowing who to help and how.

Both prayer and scripture study also really lengthen one's perspective, which in turn dulls the the edge off pretty much every challenge. For example, having an assurance that there is more to my existence than 80ish years really helped me deal with pain from a sudden death in the family. And road rage. :)

strogonoff• 5 years ago

I periodically practice attempts to interpret perceived reality as an interface to adjacent nodes in an abstract network of consciousnesses.

antognini• 5 years ago

For the last few years (and especially since the pandemic began), my most regular practice has been the Liturgy of the Hours, particularly Lauds and Vespers, which are the morning and evening prayers of the Roman Catholic Church. Each one is two psalms and a canticle, followed by a short reading, another canticle (the Benedictus in the morning and the Magnificat in the evening), intercessions, an Our Father, and a concluding prayer. I have been trying to pray Matins more regularly as well (also called the Office of Readings), which is three psalms followed by a longer reading from the Bible and reading from one of the Church Fathers.

I have found praying the rosary beneficial as well since it is more meditative than the Liturgy of the Hours, but I haven't yet been able to regularly work into my schedule.

paxcoder• 5 years ago

Same here. Lauds before work, Vespers in the evening. I'm currently praying what I think is a Franciscan Secular Order variant. I also pray a short prayer at 15:00 (Our Father and Glory Be) which is purportedly the time when Jesus died on the Cross for us, which is also very beneficial. Sundays I read Scripture, following what is really a daily Coming Home Network schedule [1] - a couple of chapters from the Old Testament in order, a Psalm or a a short excerpt from one of the books of wisdom, a chapter from the New Testament

[1] https://chnetwork.org/free-resource-updated-version-of-our-r...

hackingthelema8• 5 years ago

I practice mysticism and magick. Essentially it breaks down to Raja Yoga-style mysticism and Western tradition occultism (i.e. in the style of the Goetia and Book of Abramelin). I tend to view things through a Thelemic lens:

'Every man and every woman is a star.' - AL. I. 3

'Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the Law.' - AL. I. 40

'The word of Sin is Restriction.' - AL. I. 41

'Thou hast no right but to do thy will. Do that, and no other shall say nay.' - AL. I. 42-43

'Love is the law, love under will.' - AL. I. 57.

'Remember all ye that existence is pure joy; that all the sorrows are but as shadows; they pass & are done; but there is that which remains.' - AL. II. 9.

dharmatech• 5 years ago

I see many posts here mentioning the Bible.

If you've struggled to get into the Bible before, consider reading the NLT translation.

Read it slow. Maybe one chapter a day. (They're very short chapters.) It will take you a few years at that rate.

Start from the beginning. Read it in order.

NLT can be read online:

https://biblehub.com/nlt/genesis/1.htm

Don't let anyone tell you what it means. No church, priest, or pastor has a monopoly on these teachings. It's your journey.

If you don't feel comfortable going to a church, don't feel pressured to. If you ever sit down with even just one person to discuss your feelings on the Bible, then that is a church.

betterunix22• 5 years ago

People who read the bible without any religious context, as if it was just a book, will almost certainly see only a disjointed and contradictory collection of ancient stories and writings. Without any religious context that is all the bible is. Oral traditions still matter and that is why Jews and Christians have such wildly different understandings of the Hebrew texts.

fasteddie31003• 5 years ago

Bringing order out of chaos. All day, everyday.

browningstreet• 5 years ago

Every day, I meditate.. usually for 10 minutes, sometimes 20. I've stopped using a timer, so it depends on me. Once a week I'll do a longer guided meditation from Insight Timer.

I read a lesson from the ACIM Workbook, and then usually a selection from a few "daily" Buddhist texts I've collected and liked.

I also run and workout pretty much every day. Feels like part of the plan, moreso if I'm doing them alone.

unemphysbro• 5 years ago

Growing up our family were followers of Shirdi Sai Baba. Nowadays, I follow the basic tenants without a particular attachment to any saint. I meditate daily with personal mantras, prayers, and basic affirmations to be a good and moral person.

It's pretty simple but helps me stay grounded and reminds me of what's important in life.

oa335• 5 years ago

I’m Muslim… on a day to day basis I pray, ideally five times a day. The prayer timings are tied to the location of the sun in the sky, which helps me be more aware of natural rhythms. I’ve observed that the periods of my life where I am praying regularly are associated with lower levels depression, higher levels of satisfaction and purpose.

andrei_says_17• 5 years ago

What is your experience with the prayer practice itself? Do you feel it centers you / clears your mind?

ausbah• 5 years ago

as someone who doesn't subscribe to any major belief system (including atheism which I am aware isn't technically a "belief system"), this made me think when I feel "spiritual"

probably whatever makes me feel some sense of "ego death", where I feel more apart of others than myself. I think this usually happens when I am with good friends or in moments of self reflection - usually while running or journaling

I think these elements are what underlie many of the habits people in this thread describe, rather than anything attributable to any specific faith. that's just my two cents

dmwiens• 5 years ago

Wake up. Immediately start the hot water kettle. Put on warm clothes and use the bathroom. Go back to kitchen and make English Breakfast Tea. Sit down at my desk for 45 minutes.

At that point, I will either read from Meditations, or write in my journal, or plan out my day/week, or possibly "practice" computer science (overall, its a blend of spirituality and meta-productivity).

The content varies, but the ritual of it is a treasured part of my day.

mesid• 5 years ago

Sudarshan kriya - essentially breathing exercises taught by the Art of Living (AoL). It's simple and has a good effect on keeping the mind stable. Further, I also practise meditation taught by the same AoL foundation. Just closing my eyes and being there and observing my breath and surroundings. I go tho the temple (I'm raised as a Jain) for the peaceful environment it offers.

BurningFrog• 5 years ago

Is there instruction audio for Sudarshan kriya available anywhere on the web?

ycom789• 5 years ago

Art of Living faculty teach it.

vmception• 5 years ago

I ask people what their rising sign is so that none of us have to talk about our sun sign.

It is a litmus test as I'm not looking for cerebral people.

mark_l_watson• 5 years ago

When I wake up I do a short gratitude prayer, then a short meditation.

I meditate for short periods at random times during the day - no real schedule.

I am about 2/3 through the Self Realization Fellowship meditation lessons. I have been meditating for about 45 years on my own, but I find with the SRF lessons my meditation is more efficient and satisfying.

bovermyer• 5 years ago

I'm vaguely a secular Buddhist. I have no daily practice. I try to meditate daily but it doesn't usually work out.

throwbynight383• 5 years ago

I have to say, this is a beautiful conversation. Mine is mostly built around music. For instance, listening to A Love Supreme by John Coltrane, or Supper's Ready by Genesis.

bckr8• 5 years ago

I'm into magick.

So a lot of what I do is observe my thoughts and intentions and direct my attention/emotion/passion/sexual energy towards the most beautiful and joyful subset of those.

When I'm particularly certain of a desired outcome I will "cast" for it, occasionally doing a bit of sorcery: drawing funny pictures and generally doing wizardly stuff.

I also do "continuous divination" AKA leaning heavily into apophenia and just generally not assuming that mysterious forces aren't at work around me. Sometimes I'll also do "acute divination" -- my favorite method is fortune cookies, not even kidding.

Visualizing and praying to various god/esse/s is important. In particular I pray to Ganesh to help me let go of negative things I'm holding onto (this was a beautiful outcome of therapy mingling with my spiritual life); I also love Inanna, and Sun meditations. I'd also be lying if I denied that Christ shows up in my most anxious moments--especially since He appeared in a dream to tell me "you don't need to be a Christian to talk to me".

Finally, there are also public rituals that I attend on a regular (sans covid) basis where we meditate on natural/spiritual forces and socialize our spirituality.

This is one of the most important bits of it all, as it 1) is a huge source of magical energy, 2) reinforces the practices I'm doing 3) inspires/goads me into deepening those practices, and 4) exposes me to more ideas and possibilities in this zone, even if I've been negligent to study the mysteries (and I have been negligent, since focusing on my career the last few years).

gavinray• 5 years ago

  > Sometimes I'll also do "acute divination" -- my favorite method is fortune cookies, not even kidding.

I'm not religious or superstitious, but I get the most unscientific thought that fortune cookies may actually be personal messages from the universe.

Don't really put much credence into this thought but I can't help but think it when opening them. Not sure why.

bckr8• 5 years ago

fortune cookies may actually be personal messages from the universe.

Try this next time you get one:

Take a few seconds and hold the fortune cookie in your hand. Deeply consider for a moment the comedic possibility that this fortune cookie contains a message from a higher power. Suspend your disbelief, just like you do when engrossed in a work of fiction.

Now, the key: ask a question.

Questions in the form of "Tell me about...", or "How should I approach..." etc are most suitable for the form of divination at hand.

Close your eyes and ask the question to the higher power in the cookie.

Now, have a predetermined method for opening and reading the fortune. I crack in half, eat one half, read, and then eat the other half (or don't, if I am being a brat / don't like the fortune). This part is about making a clean ritual of it.

My hit rate for meaningful messages skyrocketed since applying the above approach.

hackingthelema8• 5 years ago

Fortune cookies are one of my favourites, too. I tend to use coin flips a lot. Occasionally I'll draw a rune or a tarot card, but I find I don't always understand what they're trying to say until after it's happened.

In particular I pray to Ganesh to help me let go of negative things I'm holding onto (this was a beautiful outcome of therapy mingling with my spiritual life);

I always find it fascinating which gods magicians end up on. One person looks to Ganesh and Inanna; another to Odin and Hecate; another to Lilith and Satan; another to Jesus Christ alone; and they're all linked in their quest for occult knowledge and experiences. I suppose it depends on their own divine pattern and current 'balance' needs.

Was it 'Low Magick' that Lon Milo DuQuette mentions his work with Ganesh? I remember he had a Ganesh-focused, light-hearted invocation and banishing in one of his books. Was it, 'Pop goes Ganesh', to the tune of 'Pop goes the weasel'?

bckr8• 5 years ago

Pop goes Ganesh

I don't know but now I need to know

metadaemon6• 5 years ago

I'm very into Occult topics. I grew up Christian and have come to believe a bit of everything.

I believe that everything is both true and false at the same time and it is important to experience different viewpoints in your world. Currently I believe that we are all essentially God, or facets of God, separated by the concept of ego. The entire purpose to life is, therefore, to have a unique experience. I try to incorporate this by embracing chaos and choosing to do random or spontaneous activities outside of my comfort zone.

I resonate with this belief the most out of those that I have tried, but I love hearing what others believe in or practice. I'd be interested in hearing more about the public rituals that you attend, or any groups that you are aware of.

hackingthelema8• 5 years ago

I'd be interested in hearing more about the public rituals that you attend, or any groups that you are aware of.

Thelema's ecclesiastical arm is called Ecclesia Gnostica Catholica, and its main purpose is the public performance of The Gnostic Mass (AKA Liber XV) by Aleister Crowley: https://sabazius.oto-usa.org/gnostic-mass/ It is a public ritual Eucharist intended to communicate the principles of Thelema to all:

I believe in one secret and ineffable LORD; and in one Star in the Company of Stars of whose fire we are created, and to which we shall return; and in one Father of Life, Mystery of Mystery, in His name CHAOS, the sole viceregent of the Sun upon the Earth; and in one Air the nourisher of all that breathes.
And I believe in one Earth, the Mother of us all, and in one Womb wherein all men are begotten, and wherein they shall rest, Mystery of Mystery, in Her name BABALON.

And so on.

You could look up a local OTO chapter and see if they know of any performances planned -- http://www.oto.org/

There are online recordings of it: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VhUpJubHlAc

Local Wiccan or Pagan groups might be willing to allow you to attend one of their celebrations of the times, like the recent Yule or upcoming Imbolc. I'm not up-and-up on how they find local chapters -- my Wicca and Pagan knowledge are stuck in the times of Witchvox!

jplr8922• 5 years ago

Zen buddhism. I started going to a local zendo about 7-8 years ago to do a weekly 1h30 hour meditation (in fact, 3 short bursts of 25min). This also became a (much shorter) daily habit, and over the year I attend various retreats (from 1 to 5 days). The zendo itself is 'managed' by a monastic.

I started because I wanted to have a crazy experience that would modify my epistemiological understanding of the world. Over the years, I discovered how past emotional events subcounsciously influenced my decision making, how much parental roles shaped my romantic views and how much of my personality was invested in my mind and not my body. I could go on and on.

I cannot prove this scientifically, but somehow I think that my effort toward zen practice made all of this possible, and the only thing I know is that the next change will be weirder than the last one.

I would also like to mention that, even if meditation is ''not christian'', I now feel that my understanding of it is better now than 8 years ago.

scotty792• 5 years ago

Playing a lot of computer games, reading internet, especially comments and chatting. It allows my spirit to get away from my mortal, aging shell into the virtual worlds of imagination, speech, ideas and relations.

nobleach• 5 years ago

Most mornings begin with exercise and cool down. Then scripture and prayer.

This morning, I read Hebrews chapter 12 from the New Testament in the Bible. Afterwards, I prayed about some of the things that stuck out to me. I prayed for my family, and the members of my dev team.

I find this tends to center me on the things that (I believe) are important... thinking more of others than myself. I pray for things I know about and things I don't know about. When relationships at work are stressed, I pray that I could see things from the perspective of others. I pray for humbleness. I pray that I'd be helpful to those around me. For those I'm mentoring, I pray that I'd teach them useful things that will foster growth.

So lotsa prayer I guess.

3pt141592• 5 years ago

I took the long, long road to end up back where I started: Mere Christianity.

I've felt the presence of God in the world my whole life, but the way the right wing media lied to me about global warming and other things had me re-evaluate what else I could be misinformed about, so I kept and open mind and studied a ton of religions including: Islam, Judaism, Hinduism, Daoism, Sikhism, Buddhism, and some light reading on Shintoism and other minor Asian religious practices. For a while I entertained Pantheism, but I couldn't square the problem of evil.

So I dove into philosophy for a while and the person that seemed to make the most rational sense once you got to the existence of a mind that could know a truth seemed to be Schopenhauer but Russel seemed the most practical. But I could get to the knowability of truth without bootstrapping off of something else. So the choice (or was it?) was radical scepticism or faith. Since I always felt the presence of God in the world, I decided faith in God was the only answer. I rationally knew it could be a delusion, but when trying to run all the logic sine Deo, I came back to the same point anyway: I need to take something by faith.

But knowing that you need to take something by faith isn't the same as feeling that you have the right religion. So I kept an open mind until the truth of it all overwhelmed me all at once.

It took a while for me to get back to stock Christianity, exploring interfaith, Orthodox Christianity, Christian universalism, etc. And I don't know all the answers on the hot button issues, but I believe and I pray and I trust that there are sensible answers for the harder questions, even if I don't have them yet.

Anyway, if anyone out there wants to chat about any of this I'm always open to a random email from a friendly HNer :)

namero9996• 5 years ago

Mind if I'll drop an email? It resonated.

3pt141592• 5 years ago

Of course. I'm away from email tonight, but I'll be back online tomorrow. Please reach out.

anthk• 5 years ago

Nothing. I just do stuff.

scop• 5 years ago

I am a practicing Catholic. I have four kids all under 7. My normal day consists of feeding them, bathing them, calming tantrums, losing my temper, getting bitter at my lack of time for hobbies, and growing resentful of my lack of time for reading the Bible, praying, etc.

But then I remember that this is a true dying to self. Not only a dying to self, but a dying to the world too as each of these sacrifices, failures, and victories occur hidden away from the world. Thus I commend myself to this daily humbling, this emptying, and also trust myself to the daily prayer of the monks, whose prayer and sacrifice are also hidden from the world and whose labors I suspect are also just as arduous, frustrating, and challenging at times.

For whoever would save his life will lose it, but whoever loses his life for my sake will find i

kk6mrp2• 5 years ago

You might like this poem (from what I can find it is attributed to Bill Britton):

When you are forgotten, or neglected, or purposely set at naught, and you don’t sting and hurt with the insult or the oversight, but your heart is happy, being counted worthy to suffer for Christ. THAT IS DYING TO SELF

When your good is evil spoken of, when your wishes are crossed, your advice disregarded, your opinions ridiculed, and you refuse to let anger rise in your heart, or even defend yourself, but take it all in patient, loving silence. THAT IS DYING TO SELF

When you lovingly and patiently bear any disorder, any irregularity, any impunctuality, or any annoyance; when you stand face-to- face with waste, folly, extravagance, spiritual insensibility and endure it as Jesus endured. THAT IS DYING TO SELF

When you are content with any food, any offering, any climate, any society, any raiment, any interruption by the will of God. THAT IS DYING TO SELF

When you never care to refer to yourself in conversation, or to record your own good works, or itch after commendations, when you can truly love to be unknown. THAT IS DYING TO SELF

When you can see your brother prosper and have his needs met and can honestly rejoice with him in spirit and feel no envy, nor question God, while your own needs are far greater and in desperate circumstances. THAT IS DYING TO SELF

When you can receive correction and reproof from one of less stature than yourself and can humbly submit inwardly as well as outwardly, finding no rebellion or resentment rising up within your heart. THAT IS DYING TO SELF

Are you dead yet? In these last days, the Spirit would bring us to the cross.

“That I may know Him, and the power of his resurrection, and the fellowship of his sufferings, being made conformable unto his death.” Philippians 3:10

EDIT: I like to keep this poem around as a reminder on how I should act. I find that self is a hard beast to conquer.

BTCOG3• 5 years ago

It's so odd to me that since the dawn of time, humans find this innate need to live in slave morality. Living a life of moral slavery based on stories and tales previous humans made with their own minds. It's a definition of insanity, from my own perspective.

To contribute to the discussion: I practice nothing, no religion, no meditations. Nothing. I find peace enough knowing that I'm not morally enslaved and that I trust in natural workings of this possibly created planet. It's not that I do not believe there's some God or force out there, potentially, but I fully trust in living a natural life, the way I was born and in a somewhat Stoic fashion. When I die, I just am. I will become nature once more. So be it.

samhain• 5 years ago

It’s funny too, since some of those kids may eventually realize that they were brought here without their consent, and that they don’t actually like working and paying bills. You, suffering for them, then suffering for their existence, and a death of your previous self, in which you draw yourself as a type of martyr. No one’s happy on your road to Damascus, and yet you’re faith and community demand your consent to your animalistic urges to reproduce and maintain face within your community. Having children out of guilt and peer pressure from your religious community is no excuse for their suffering.

JohnBooty4• 5 years ago

I don't disagree, but your post feels out of place. This Ask HN is "What is your spiritual practice?", not "Debate others' beliefs."

kbelder2• 5 years ago

He's presumably not anticipating having children with mental issues, and doing what he can to not instill them.

Thorentis3• 5 years ago

If we stopped having children because some of them might suffer, then the human race would cease to exist. If that is your aim, then state it plainly, rather than hiding it behind a thinly veiled attack on somebody's religion and personal sacrifices.

anarticle2• 5 years ago

You're in luck! This belief system will likely die out in a generation or two.

Or you can accept that this belief system is directly opposed to humanity itself, and expect to be treated that way.

I think saying the only reason to have children is out of guilt and peer pressure is myopic.

czbond2• 5 years ago

I can relate to your frustrations; what does the term "dying to self" mean to you? (I'm trying to understand the phrase, not questioning it)

323454• 5 years ago

I'm not GP but as I understand it most religions contain an idea that selflessness is the highest good that a person can attain. Further they often maintain that only by becoming truly selfless can you make your spirit one with God (I don't specifically mean the Christian God here, just the concept of God). Becoming truly self-less literally means eliminating the self and its wants and impulses (really what is meant by this is typically something like the ego). Such an elimination has been called a "dying to self" or a mortification.

I will say that in my experience acting in selfless ways is indeed the most spiritually fulfilling thing you can do, regardless of your specific theology. The paradox is that you have to really be selfless: if you have any expectation of a reward (even a spiritual one) then you are in fact still acting for your self. Consequently the only true source of selflessness is love for others that exceeds love for yourself. Cultivate such love and you can't go wrong.

lostmsu• 5 years ago

I don't have one and recommend everyone to drop that shit. Total waste of time.

Simon_O_Rourke• 5 years ago

I head down to mass the odd Sunday, not so much with the pandemic, and go through the motions there.

nmpennypacker• 5 years ago

Atheist here. Yoga, running, and hiking do the trick for me.

PaulHoule• 5 years ago

It is a bit unusual and outright advocated against by almost all gurus, but I have sometimes done a spiritual practice aimed at developing unusual abilities.

In some cases this has involved overlaying my avatar in the physical world with a different image and taking on some characteristics such as charm, increased observation, better functional flexibility, etc.

Lately I got one which is outright ego-dystonic, not like me at all, often intrusive (sometimes it seems it visualizes me and not the other way around) and even a bit rude (to me), yet the challenge it is helping me with is longstanding and severe enough that I'm willing to put up with quite a lot.

sam0x1712• 5 years ago

100% atheism. Was raised some kind of protestant I forget which one, and derived tremendous spiritual and psychological relief when I realized all of that was absolute nonsense at the age of 9. I knew I was gay at the time and wouldn't come out until I was 18 or so, but my life just got a lot easier when I removed religion completely. I also recall discovering increased moral agency -- as a Christian I had been taught I could simply confess whatever and it would be forgiven (an idea I found laughable), and that the objective basis for making moral judgements comes directly from god (another idea I found laughable). As an atheist I was suddenly responsible for making my own moral judgements and conclusions (I had to decide upon my own objective basis for making moral judgements), and forgiveness was something I had to work towards myself (as in I had to forgive myself for things, which is not easy, but is incredibly rewarding) versus simply getting it for free from some nonexistent deity. All in all, was an incredibly positive change in my life, and I do believe there can be a weird sort of spirituality to 100% atheism that people don't really acknowledge.

garbanzoXDP• 5 years ago

Similar experience.

I was raised Christian and very into it (mission trips, Bible study, accountability groups, etc) but abandoned it in my early twenties. I am much more content with life—no more sense of guilt constantly hanging over my head along with an increased sense of control and responsibility. My wife was raised Mormon and also abandoned her faith. Both of our immediate and extended families are still very religions.

heavenlyblue• 5 years ago

I find it interesting that I grew up in a family which was not exactly religious (no church-going, etc), but incredibly moral in some it’s own way (Russian family based in Lithuania, military grandparents). But basically I had to let go of moral-ethical shame (guilt) to make my life easier too.

Not going to go into the depth of what these morals were, but in essence:

In some way I think it could be similar to having strict parents who had spent their whole life trying to make their children successful but it takes a lot of courage for that child to start living the life they way they want and not the life their parents have guilt-tripped them to live.

sfotm• 5 years ago

I was raised in the Catholic church, and I don't think your take on confession is quite right. The process of confession isn't "sit in this booth and walk out scot-free on all of your wrongdoings". It's meant to be an assisted meditation on what you can do better in your life, and how to do so. The act of confession doesn't help you if it's not done in good faith, and a penance for murder might be a confession to the community.

Think of it as a precursor to modern-day psychotherapy, if that helps. Admittedly, some modern day implementations of confession feel a bit like the spiritual equivalent of a drive through, nor are all priests equally capable of helping.

hall0ween• 5 years ago

As far as I know, confession is a route for absolution of “sins”. And for some reason this is a power Christian churches give themselves. If it doesn’t result in a form of leverage (moral or otherwise) over it’s practitioners, I’d be surprised. Even more so for children who have yet to establish their own view of the world.

aidenn02• 5 years ago

I'm a practicing Roman Catholic and the process is very nearly "sit in this booth and walk out scot-free on all of your wrongdoings," with a few caveats:

1. You actually have to confess your sins; intentional omission of a mortal sin invalidates the absolution.

2. You must express repentance for your sins (that is a firm intention to not continue sinning); confessing a sin that you fully intend to go out and continue doing invalidates the absolution.

3. You must perform penance for the sins; in modern day penance is usually private, I don't think this is a strict requirement. Note that a public penance does not reveal the specific sin; something like "walk back and forth down Main Street 10 times while carrying a cross" would be a public penance. It may include restitution towards those harmed as well (most commonly returning stolen items) but said restitution may always be anonymous as a priest may not require divulging of the sin outside the confessional as a condition of absolution (though they may suggest it; e.g. they will almost always suggest that addicts seek treatment).

dragonwriter13• 5 years ago

I was raised in the Catholic church, and I don’t think your take on confession is quite right.

The Protestant churches (the upthread poster said he was raised in some unspecified branch of protestantism) that hold out a role for confession tend to treat it rather differently than Catholics do the Sacrament of Reconciliation. (And, even within the Catholic Church, what reconciliation feels like can vary a lot between different priests administering the sacrament, irrespective of the [at least theoretical] theological consistency within the Catholic Church.)

pg_1234• 5 years ago

+100% ... well, straight here ... but I was 7 when I realised that religion was not only bullshit but actually dangerous as it represents a way for people to justify reprehensible acts by putting the importance of pandering to the alleged whims of a "supreme" being above any rational standard of decency and morality.

kirse3• 5 years ago

as it represents a way for people to justify reprehensible acts

And in that view, it also represents a way for people to "justify" incredible acts of grace, mercy, and kindness to fellow man. At least in the US, the broad majority of charities and social work organizations that care for others' many needs (both internal and external to this country) have some sort of religious background.

Even further, religious freedom was a core basis for creating the US that - for all its faults - is still one of the greatest civilizations to have ever existed. So your one-sided perspective is arguably just that.

gonehome• 5 years ago

The bad reasoning is what makes me uncomfortable. Most of the time it doesn’t matter, but sometimes it matters a lot.

It’s the “if you have a problem with fundamentalists, maybe there is something wrong with your fundamentals?”

When otherwise smart people go on about god it makes me uncomfortable - a little like talking to a delusional person. When something there is broken anything can be rationalized. The specific religion doesn’t matter, they all share this flaw (along with woo like astrology).

Though what’s broken is often more complex.

https://www.lesswrong.com/posts/CqyJzDZWvGhhFJ7dY/belief-in-...

“Some philosophers have been much confused by such scenarios, asking, “Does the claimant really believe there’s a dragon present, or not?” As if the human brain only had enough disk space to represent one belief at a time!

Real minds are more tangled than that. There are different types of belief; not all beliefs are direct anticipations. The claimant clearly does not anticipate seeing anything unusual upon opening the garage door. Otherwise they wouldn’t make advance excuses.

It may also be that the claimant’s pool of propositional beliefs contains the free-floating statement There is a dragon in my garage.

It may seem, to a rationalist, that these two beliefs should collide and conflict even though they are of different types. Yet it is a physical fact that you can write “The sky is green!” next to a picture of a blue sky without the paper bursting into flames.”

geoduck148• 5 years ago

but I was 7 when I realised that religion was not only bullshit but actually dangerous as it represents a way for people to justify reprehensible acts

I have a 7 yo daughter. I wonder if she believes this stuff, too.

dstroot• 5 years ago

I read quite a bit about Stoicism - an ancient Greek school of philosophy founded at Athens by Zeno of Citium. The school taught that virtue, the highest good, is based on knowledge; the wise live in harmony with the divine Reason (also identified with Fate and Providence) that governs nature, and are indifferent to the vicissitudes of fortune and to pleasure and pain.

The Stoics elaborated a detailed taxonomy of virtue, dividing virtue into four main types: wisdom, justice, courage, and moderation.

Many may not view this as “spiritual” as it does not address “spirits” but rather personal empowerment.

andrewfromx• 5 years ago

There is good new book on this “Sapien Ethics” by Godwin

hudon6• 5 years ago

For forgiveness, you need to actually be contrite and willing to amend your life. God loves you and wants you to heal but you need to be open to it. Also he is just, so he doesn’t exactly let you do whatever you want as you imply. There are always consequences to our actions.

Further, I would argue that without living with God, you are actually freed from responsibility in moral judgements, because of the belief that there is no final judge. You believe no one is ultimately holding you accountable to seek forgiveness or to live rightly, and you must try to adhere to wavering conceptions of courtesy and politeness in a culture with ever shifting morals.

embwbam• 5 years ago

I think unless you have been both religious and atheist, it’s hard to compare which results in better morals and values. It’s a common misconception that having a god free life will result in an immoral or amoral existence. It’s simply not true. Leaving religion felt empowering and made me think seriously about which values mattered to me.

Humans have always had the capacity to be good to each other inside them. The idea that religion or god is necessary for that is demonstrably false.

offa3• 5 years ago

I don't mean to start a "religion versus atheism" comment battle, but just wanted to discuss the idea of moral responsibility. For context, I grew up in a Christian (Eastern Orthodox) household and attended church for some twenty-five years of my life - that is to say, the perspective of a believer is not lost on me, even though I am now agnostic.

For me, responsibility is irrevocably linked to the idea of care - caring for those other than myself makes me responsible for my actions, inasmuch as they impact those around me. That ranges from those I love (my partner, family, friends) to strangers on the street that I nonetheless "care" for, by recognizing our shared humanity. Care itself comes from the idea of finitude - specifically, the idea of fragility of life in the face of our mortal existence. If I'm being poetic, "living rightly" means a life that is spent caring for others, strengthening the bonds that link us in face of death. The consequences of our actions are felt precisely because of the finitude of our lives - all we've got is each other, and our responsibility is towards one another.

Religious morality of the other hand is best expressed in the story of Abraham being asked to sacrifice his son (it's no wonder the three major religions are called "Abrahamic"). For a deeper dive into the idea, I recommend reading Kierkegaard's retelling of this story in Fear and Trembling - to recap however, God asks Abraham to sacrifice Isaac, they travel to mountain where Abraham binds Isaac and lifts up the knife to kill him. At the last moment, God interrupts Abraham, and a ram is offered as sacrifice instead. This story, perhaps one of the most well-known stories from the Old Testament of the Christian Bible, goes directly against the idea of responsibility in moral judgments - Abraham does not falter, for he fully trusts his Lord, giving up his son in devotion to God's command. The idea of care or responsibility for ones actions is superseded by the belief that the will of God is, in fact, more important than caring for those around you. A true belief in an everlasting life presupposes a detachment from the world (as any cursory reading of writers such as Saint Augustine shows), in a way protecting and insulating the believer from truly coming to terms with the consequence of their actions (in this case, murdering their only son).

To sum it up, I just can't get behind the idea that a final judge is somehow required for having responsibility in moral judgments. In fact, the opposite is true - only through the secular faith that there is no better everlasting world can we form meaningful relationships and take full responsibility for our actions.

mbfg7• 5 years ago

Why would you believe that claim? Have any evidence to provide that it is true?

Faaak• 5 years ago

Atheist here too. The day I stopped believing (around ~18 or so) was the start of my new life. I don't know how or why, but I put more importance on morale than on god's beliefs. I got kinder, more patient, and more of a giver.

zw123456• 5 years ago

Amen Brother ;)

I could not have said it better than you did. I think that the real power is in your own mind and that most religions or "spiritual practices" are just ways of tricking your mind into solving your problems. You don't need religion once you realize that and then just use your mind.

laserlight• 5 years ago

I’m curious. How did you originally arrive at the conclusion that god didn’t exist?

deeng• 5 years ago

Atheism doesn't necessarily imply concluding that no gods exist. It's merely not accepting the claim that any do exist.

simonh• 5 years ago

Good question, hope you don’t mind me jumping in. For me as a teenager or even younger, reading about various faiths and mythologies, I was thinking about which faith was the right one. Obviously I could simply choose the one of my parents and the adults around me followed, but I went to a school with Muslims, Hindu and Buddhist children too. Was I really supposed to try and convert them? None of the Christian teachers did.

It all made no sense. Everybody was just doing and saying what their parents told them to, and actually thinking or talking about it and taking it actually seriously just seemed absurd. Nobody was actually following through on what the scriptures said they aught to be doing, if it really was all true, and if they had that would be even worse.

So it wasn’t so much deciding god doesn’t exist, it was that if god does exist, which version is it and how would I know? From there concluding that religion is an entirely artificial social construct was a pretty small step.

Having said that, I also concluded that spirituality is clearly a ubiquitous human experience. Religion seems to be a response to a universal, or near universal impulse that it’s worth taking seriously.

cogman1013• 5 years ago

We all come by it by different ways but I'll share my story.

I was mormon up until around 30ish. However, researching the history of the mormon religion ultimately led me to completely disbelieve the faith claims of the church.

From there, atheism was just sort of natural. Why, for example, would I suddenly believe that any other religious sect got it's supernatural claims correct when the one I was raised with, got a bunch of the "good feelings" from and was 1000% convinced was true ended up having really major issues?

I certainly could be convinced there is a god, but it cannot be through emotions. My emotions held me in mormonism for far to long. I know emotions can trick, deceive, and are easily played to. The right type of music or a charismatic orator can easily trigger them.

So what does that leave me with? Facts, logic, and evidence. Any religion that can give me solid evidence that the supernatural is real and exists would win me. None have succeeded (and I have had fun looking into a few).

If there is an all knowing, loving god that cares about me, then that god would know exactly how to present me the evidence I need to believe in it. If that god doesn't care about me, then why should I care about it?

And, if there's a supernatural belief without a god that I should believe in for afterlife rewards... well, there's just no way for me to correctly stumble into it. I need evidence that I'll be reincarnated as a spider if I don't believe in reincarnation, and that seems pretty tough to prove.

nogridbag• 5 years ago

I had been taught I could simply confess whatever and it would be forgiven

I still remember the day at Sunday school when we had to confess. I was a good kid. I had absolutely no idea what to confess. I consulted my Mom who told me to "make something up". And thus my first sin, that I can remember, was lying to the priest.

curiousllama• 5 years ago

This is the most catholic story I can imagine.

poulsbohemian3• 5 years ago

In hindsight, it was definitely the concept of original sin that got my young mind spinning, not understanding how for example a newborn baby could be innately sinful. All downhill after that.

bfuller• 5 years ago

I was raised in a fully evangelical tongue speaking, bible thumping, political shilling for george bush church, and I distinctly remember in bible school being made to accepet jesus into my heart as my savior over and over.

When I told the teachers I had already accepted him, they would make me do it again. Even at that young age (probably 6-8 years old) I was thinking logically, if accepting jesus as my savior gets me into heaven, why would I have to do it multiple times?

I'm a mystic now.

Trex_Egg4• 5 years ago

What a paradox.

geoduck148• 5 years ago

I'd like to make a suggestion. If you aren't sure if you have anything to confess, then pray.

Ask God to reveal any sin to you so you can confess it, pause for a little bit and listen for God. You can also take this time to thank God for things in your life.

scandox3• 5 years ago

Strong atheism of the sort you profess is religious in my opinion. It may or may not be spiritual, depending on its flavour. You don't sound like a God hating atheist (which is definitely spiritual).

autopilot232• 5 years ago

I don't understand this comment. How is it exactly religious?

yibg8• 5 years ago

I hear this sentiment quite a bit but I don't understand still. Can you explain a bit why (strongly) not believing in a deity is religious? I can hate God, because for instance I think religious belief has done a lot of harm, but how does that make my stance a religious one?

cogman1013• 5 years ago

There is, frankly, no such thing as a "god hating atheist". Those two notions are incompatible. Consider, for example, how little you (probably) care about fairies. Are you a fairy hating afairist?

You may find an Atheist that says something like "If god does exist, it's a dick". but that's not really hating god but rather pointing out the silliness of believing in a supernatural all powerful being that is good which allows evil to happen. IE, the problem of evil.

opportune2• 5 years ago

Please explain how being a god-hating atheist is spiritual

I think if god-hating atheists do exist it’s an inherent contradiction. Perhaps you are confusing people who practice “satanism” mostly as a way to troll religious people as god-hating.

There are definitely anti-religion atheists but I don’t see how that is spiritual.

analog315• 5 years ago

I think the problem of strongly asserting nonexistence is purely a puzzle of logic or language. We lack terminology and language for something that is, informally, in between strict existence and non-existence, such as things that are proposed without evidence but taken seriously. I've been thinking about this since reading about things like faster-than-light travel, and the singularity.

Then the question is whether it's useful to assign a third category, or just to combine it with one of the original two categories. My own feeling is that strong versus weak atheism is not a useful distinction.

msla2• 5 years ago

I strongly disbelieve that I'm a murderer. I have no memory of committing homicide, and I would vigorously defend myself were I to be accused of such. Is that a religious belief, too?

icytrumpet2• 5 years ago

Why even bother forgiving yourself if morality is just a human construct and there is no judgment in the afterlife?

autopilot232• 5 years ago

Why even bother "trying to live a good life" if "a good life" is just a human construct and there is no judgement on that in the afterlife?

By your assumptions, every atheist should just, like, die or at best, live a meaningless life.

cogman1013• 5 years ago

I don't believe in an afterlife but I do believe in consciousness and mental health. Just because there's no pit of fire, paradise, or next reincarnation doesn't mean that my actions don't influence both me and those around me either positively or negatively.

If I've hurt someone or done something wrong, I will dwell on it and think about the mistake I've made. Forgiving one's self is the process of figuring out A. how can I fix the wrong I've done and B. How can I let go of that and move on, realizing I can't change the past.

Why should I care about how I treat those around me? Because I, like most humans, am social and care about society in general. I want future generations of humanity to live in a kind world. I don't need religion to threaten me with eternal torture to know that hurting others is bad.

Morality, to me, is both not harming others and helping others that are hurting. This form of morality is superior to bronze age texts which endorsed slavery and genocide.

coryfklein4• 5 years ago

Probably because they are a human and still subject to human constructs like morality?

Why bother obeying the speed limit if speed limits are just human constructs and you won't go to hell for breaking it?

aliceryhl2• 5 years ago

"There is no justice in the laws of Nature, Headmaster, no term for fairness in the equations of motion. The universe is neither evil, nor good, it simply does not care. The stars don't care, or the Sun, or the sky. But they don't have to! We care! There is light in the world, and it is us!"

https://www.hpmor.com/chapter/39

trasz• 5 years ago

""If you don't believe there is a God to answer to why don't you go round raping & murdering as much as you want?"

I do, which is not at all"

https://twitter.com/rickygervais/status/358518027446263808?l...

kazinator6• 5 years ago

"100% atheism" isn't a spiritual practice. It's just the absence of belief in the existence of gods.

A rock is 100% atheist, yet in all likelihood doesn't have spiritual practice.

You can have a spiritual practice under the umbrella of atheism, as long as it doesn't involve any kind of belief in gods. Whatever that practice is, that practice isn't identified with the atheism itself.

koheripbal• 5 years ago

This is an important point. Being atheist doesn't say anything about your beliefs in ethics or the nature of the universe. It's just the absence of some set of other beliefs.

EVa5I7bHFq9mnYK• 5 years ago

Here's my take. I don't believe in G-d, but I believe there is a circuit in my brain, created by early education, that makes me feel good when I behave. Besides, I realize that such a circuit carries social benefits - if everyone behaves, society as a whole is better off. Looks like closed circuit logic and doesn't require any superstitious beliefs.

tibbar2• 5 years ago

I think this doesn't reflect the standard spectrum of usage for the term. For instance, if you look up "atheism" in Merriam-Webster, the second definition is:

"a philosophical or religious position characterized by disbelief in the existence of a god or any gods"

By that definition, a rock is not atheist since it has no philosophical or religious positions (ha, I hope so, at least).

Honestly, I'm a little confused by your very strict understanding of the term, as I think people often (as above) use this second definition; and most people would find your statement "a rock is atheist" a little unusual.

uxisnotui2• 5 years ago

This.

remram2• 5 years ago

It is not the absence of belief in gods, it's the positive belief there is no god who put us here for a higher mystical purpose and plan, from which important ethical conclusions can be derived as listed by GP.

sublatio2• 5 years ago

I’m curious about any practices you may have found to integrate these positive aspects of your atheist view into your life. You mention moral responsibility and forgiveness - is there a way you intentionally cultivate these?

One thing you didn’t mention is awe or wonder, something I often hear religiously-minded people speak of. In contrast to fundamentalist religion, which exchanges awe for constricted thoughts about what is and isn’t real, it seems to me that true awe really is especially available to athiests (or those who align with religion and have moved beyond the belief system aspect and into the contemplative).

pmarreck5• 5 years ago

While I sometimes debate atheists on this or that (such as denial of consciousness or "soul" or afterlife claims or resting on circular reasoning that they prima facie don't exist), their "100% assume nothing" stance is waaaaaay better to debate pretty much anything on vs. pretty much any person who takes seriously their (usually unfounded, at least empirically; I'm putting aside externally-unverifiable personal/subjective experiences here, which I do believe happen) religious beliefs.

It's been excruciating existing as the sole "loves to debate" member of my original nuclear family (who are all fairly hardcore Catholics; I was raised in that but my naturally-questioning naturally-curious nature eventually led me off that path). Sincere religious belief is almost anathema to sincere debate (since some things suddenly become "unquestionable" or "heretical to question"); and it seems that many people feel "lost" unless they have some framework to make sense of things... but even then, people use reasoning that just seems terrible to me (such as thanking God for the survivors of a disaster but not questioning God at all about the non-survivors; at least Mr. Rogers made some sense when he said "look to the rescuers").

dotancohen2• 5 years ago

  > 100% atheism. Was raised some kind of protestant

Please don't conflate Christianity with religion or the lack of Christianity with atheism. Many religions are very spiritual, and I remind you that talking about our spiritual practice is the whole point of this thread.

good86753092• 5 years ago

Raised Christian, became an atheist, then evaluated a bunch of religions for myself. Found Christianity to be the most historically and spiritually compelling but still didn’t believe. After feeling hollow and aimless for years I re-evaluated things, read about Jesus love for me. Really meditated on His perfect life, sacrifice on the cross, and resurrection. He died for me, in my place. It became personal. When I realized that it changed my life. I’ve never felt love like that. It transformed me and freed me. I’ve been following Jesus, praying, and reading the Bible, the inspired and sufficient word of God, ever since.

coryfklein4• 5 years ago

I'm curious; do you believe that your subjective experience of God's love to be objective evidence for the existence of God, and thus you made a scientific observation that God must exist and therefore believe in him? Or is it more that your experience touching the divine had such a positive effect on your life that you simply decided to continue cultivating that experience? Or maybe a bit of both?

criddell• 5 years ago

I've never understood what part of the crucifixion was a sacrifice. Jesus is literally a god. He knew he would end up on the cross before he even took on human form. He could have left at any time. He can return any time he wants. And how can his death on the cross be actually considered a death? If he was dead, are we to understand that for those few days there was no god overlooking all of creation?

It seems to me that Jesus allowing himself to be crucified is poetic but ultimately an empty gesture.

remram2• 5 years ago

How can he die for you before you are even born? Would you truly be ok for the sin of Adam and Eve to be blamed on you from the day of your birth, simply because they were your ancestors, had Jesus not come along?

How is his being put to death a good thing, earning humans salvation all around, when two people eating an apple is bad enough to damn countless generations?

rixed3• 5 years ago

Many (historical) people have died for others, you do not need any mysticism for that.

coryfklein4• 5 years ago

I'll agree with the other comment that atheism – almost by definition – is not a spiritual practice. But I'll point out that the transition itself, from dogmatic religion to atheism, is almost always a highly spiritual experience.

Having gone through this process myself years ago I can attest to this, while also I must give my strongest recommendation that you eventually begin looking for a spiritual practice. Organized religion's wild success among humanity is a great testament to it's Darwinian fitness, and it undisputably provides many benefits to believers that you most definitely lose if you simply subtract it from your life.

Many atheists struggle with finding a replacement for those benefits without adopting magical thinking in some other way, and I sympathize with this. But once you have had a few years to distance the pain of religion, I highly recommend looking for a routine source of spiritualism in your life. Sam Harris advocates for meditation which seems to be the most prominent atheistic alternative, but it doesn't come by default with many of the benefits that organized religion does (community and ceremony to just name a couple off the top of my head).

Whatever time and effort your parents and family invested into religion, I recommend taking some portion of that and investing it in your own spiritual well-being. And as a disclaimer to all this: I too am atheist, I don't subscribe to any magical thinking, and I am co-opting the word "spiritualism" significantly here but I can't think of a good alternative. I don't actually believe "spirits" exist.

TedDoesntTalk5• 5 years ago

Just wanted to second Sam Harris. Try his app “Waking Up” for a wealth of resources on different kinds of meditation for beginners and the experienced. It’s really just an audio library of incredibly useful guided meditations and discussions with leaders in meditation.

Meditating without any reference to religion or God is possible and you can change your experience in very meaningful ways.

andrei_says_17• 5 years ago

How does this inform your experiences and choices on a daily basis?

bananamerica3• 5 years ago

"What is your favorite pizza?"

"I don't eat pizza."

"Huh, thanks for answering, I guess?"

UnpossibleJim2• 5 years ago

If you ask a question in a form that has an answer where they are forced to lie or give you an answer you don't like, which do you prefer?

EDIT: Mobile mistake =(

mistermann3• 5 years ago

100% atheism. Was raised some kind of protestant I forget which one, and derived tremendous spiritual and psychological relief when I realized all of that was absolute nonsense at the age of 9.

As an armchair Taoist (and psychologist/neuroscientist), I consider this as jumping from the frying pan into the fire, or another frying pan at least. Although, the current popularity of this metaphysical framework is undeniable, as was the historic (and current) popularity of many more traditional metaphysical frameworks (religions).

Trex_Egg4• 5 years ago

So you are saying the atheism is another religion.

mgh2• 5 years ago

A curious and investigative approach https://trendguardian.medium.com/in-data-we-trust-2978dacc8c...

furyofantares• 5 years ago

100% atheism is not incompatible with spiritual experience or practice, at least if you take seriously the claim that sam harris makes which is that what spiritual experiences all have in common is a perception of selflessness, combined with the observation that what we know of physics implies a lack of any distinct self, and what we know of psychology says all the things we think of as "self" don't map at all to our understanding of how the brain actually works.

faebi2• 5 years ago

Totally on your world view here. I was around 10 when I came across the Hubble deep field image as a gif. I proceeded to find it on google sky and I just couldn‘t get the mind boggling size of the visible universe into my brain while all of that supposed to be 2000 years old and only happen on earth. It blew my mind. One needed to scroll so hard only to reach that image which again has so many galaxies. And thats my spiritual practice, everything is in the name of nothing, this nothing is everything until entropy destroys the existence of everything.

TedDoesntTalk5• 5 years ago

Sincere question. How did you make the leap from the vastness of the universe to nothing? I have sensed the nothing but not in this way. How did it happen for you?

jollybean2• 5 years ago

This does read a bit like a (albeit smart) 9-year-old's interpretation of spirituality, but I'm afraid I think you might have missed the opportunity to understand your parent's religion.

erfgh• 5 years ago

What other great life choices you made at age 9?

complexmango• 5 years ago

People don’t acknowledge ‘a weird sort of spirituality to atheism’ because it’s an absurd concept.

Because spirituality is born from spiritual experiences, not religious theory. Atheism, on the other hand, is a belief system.

It’s like sex - talking about it is quite different from experiencing it.

If Christianity doesn’t help you, that’s alright. There’s a ton of Buddhists, Hindus, Taoists, Zen practitioners who have a radically different approach than ‘The Book’. And there’s also psychedelics for a taste of what’s out there.

I have a computer science degree but I still find it strange that anyone doesn’t find life an unfathomable mystery.

For example - do you know who you are? Ie who is the ‘you’ that experiences the world? Have you ever looked inside?

dqpb2• 5 years ago

I'm atheist, but grew up in and around a few religions and new-age spirituality. In my teenage years, I believed in the spiritual existence as fully as I can imagine anyone believing in anything.

As I reached my 20s I realized these were all dead-ends, but never lost the good feelings I associated with the practice.

For a few years, I tried to pin down what it means to be atheist while still embodying the spiritual experience. One morning I was driving to work when my boss called to say the office would be closed and I could take the day off. Suddenly, it was like all the neurons in my brain lit up at once. The sky looked brighter, the air smelled sweeter, and I felt a wave of energy flood my body.

I loved my job, this wasn't a feeling of relief of escaping something I dreaded. Rather, it was just the sudden openness of my day, and a feeling of unbounded possibilities. I realized in that moment that that is what it feels like to be both atheist and "spiritual".

So, my spiritual practice is two things: first, to make those moments happen. Second, to collect the various ideas, mental models, and frameworks that I believe are the evolutionary successors to spirituality.

The core of these ideas center around: focused vs diffuse thinking, the exploitation/exploration tradeoff, computational irreducibility, information theory, systems thinking, and generally allowing some things which don't exist yet, but could theoretically exist, to exist in my mind as if they are already real.

mikercampbell2• 5 years ago

I used to be devout Mormon, and a hardcore one at that. It was woven so deeply in my reality, that everything had spiritual significance for me.

A few years ago, I encountered history, documents, and truths about the religion that were never presented to me. Since then, I've slowly, painfully, removed myself from the religion, and removed the religion from me.

It's extremely painful to go from a space where everything is eternally, deifically, infinitely of value to "nothing actually matters".

I was diagnosed with PTSD this summer from the whole affair, as it was truly traumatic, and there were times that I almost didn't make it in the most literal sense.

But I've pieced together significance slowly and surely over the years. I've learned to slow down, love deeper, participate in the demanding process of finding and acknowledging beauty in this world, and have found spirituality in my own ways.

"The Anthropocene Reviewed" by John Green was a huge influence on my current flavor of spirituality (as it's constantly shifting). I'm sure the book means something different to everyone, but for me, it really broke down the need to work to build a habit of awe, and look for the things that stop you in your tracks. Observation and conscious efforts to find meaning and beauty are how I find my spirituality.

natch3• 5 years ago

nothing actually matters

Maybe it’s just a matter if having a time perspective that is appropriate for what we can possibly get a handle on as humans. In the medium term, as opposed to the heat-death-of-the-universe long term, stuff definitely matters.

Also btw that phrase “nothing actually matters” is a little piece of propaganda planted by religion as a false caricature of non-religious thinking. You might consider that by buying into it, you are still allowing that religion to control your thinking.

unixhero2• 5 years ago

Come watch TV [0]

[0], "Nobody exists on purpose", https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E_qvy82U4RE

mikercampbell2• 5 years ago

You're right. And I mean that earnestly. In reality, what I should have said was "I was suddenly responsible for assigning value to all the aspects of my life. They suddenly had no inherent godly value, just the value that I, and those around me assigned it".

But still - ultimately nothing has value. With the sun eventually consuming the earth and the universe either collapsing or going cold, everything that could have value will eventually cease to exist.

Any number, multiplied by any other number, and multiplied an endless list of values, and eventually by zero at least once is still zero. The death of everything that ever has been influenced by anything I do will eventually be multiplied by zero. Therefore, ultimately, every piece of value, regardless of how significant, is ephemeral.

But I do understand the dangers of anti-religious religiousness. The exmormon community is full of people defining their lives as the exact opposite of what they were told, and in doing so are still defined by what they used to be, but are no longer.

sethammons• 5 years ago

I'd love to hear more on the history, documents, and truths you found. Would you consider emailing me (it is in my profile)? Summary and jumping off points super welcome.

coryfklein4• 5 years ago

The CES Letter is an excellent jumping-off point.

taiboku256• 5 years ago

I had a similar experience to OP. But the catalyst for me was the Mountain Meadows Massacre[1] which I was completely oblivious to until my mid-20s. It was quite a shock to learn that the church (which I thought was "God's perfect organization") had such an ugly past. The most disturbing part was how much effort the church put to hide and scrub events like this from its members and the rest of the world.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mountain_Meadows_Massacre

pmarreck5• 5 years ago

I encountered history, documents, and truths about the religion that were never presented to me

I encountered something like this but wasn't able to find it since; I think it was called something like the "blue document" or the "blue papers"; basically a very intelligent Mormon came up with a document with all of his very reasonable but quite heretical questions, and it caused quite a stir. Would love to track it down again and bookmark it this time.

"nothing actually matters"

Well... It does, IMHO, you just don't need religion to have that.

Disclaimer: I've donated to https://footstepsorg.org/ and one or more ex-mormon support orgs because I think the more extreme the beliefs, the more cult-like and harmful they are. My family's Catholic but I'm the "black sheep" and have been exploring maybe joining a unitarian church, just for the "community of free-thinkers" aspect

cogman1013• 5 years ago

https://cesletter.org is probably what you are thinking about.

gremlinsinc6• 5 years ago

As someone else mentioned it's probably the ces letter, but it also could be this one: https://www.letterformywife.com/the-letter

http://www.mormonthink.com/lying.htm is another good read.

kello• 5 years ago

Hey fellow former devout mormon here. Im sure our journeys have been radically different but I identify so much with what you are saying here.

gremlinsinc6• 5 years ago

You sound exactly like me... it definitely was rough, though I wasn't as active in the end (got tired of right-wing viewpoints from the pulpit, so started staying home more and more)...

In many ways my shelf-breaking liberated me, in others it crushed pieces of me. In the end I'm probably more spiritual, if agnostic (though I do believe the universe could have some sort of universal consciousness, or be a simulation, or something along those lines and an afterlife is possible -- we are energy after all and perhaps whatever consciousness is - gets another purpose after it leaves...but none of the requires a deity, and I'm pretty sure all deities worshipped are man made, and even if there really were a GOD we're too insignificant to matter much to him, we're one tiny planet in a universe with billions of galaxies, probably billions of civilizations spanning eons, etc... )

I'm often inspired by the beauty in the universe, or the things my children do, etc... or just humanity. Not having church context surrounding those things has made them even more enjoyable.

yobert• 5 years ago

I am so sorry for your pain. My journey paralleled yours, just easier. Figuring out who/what I was after leaving the mormon church was internal chaos for years. I'm glad to hear you're at a better place now.

asiachick• 5 years ago

I'll take the downvotes but this entire thread is mostly depressing. If you want to know why people believe in 5G nanobots from vaccines or pizzagate you need only look here in this thread at all these people believing in nonsense.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=j8llkjvURyg

most similar videos critique religion but to me, spirituality just means persoal religion and has many of the same traps, bad reasoning, and bad consequences.

tkamat29• 5 years ago

The person you linked (Sam Harris) is actually one of the leading voices advocating for spirituality without religion. He wrote about it in his book Waking Up: A Guide to Spirituality Without Religion.

namero9996• 5 years ago

Not going to downvote you, but I consider that view extremely naive. Without an all encompassing worldview, you are going to need lots of luck to navigate life and the world. The word religion, once you divest it of superstitions, means re-legare, to bind together. And this is what spirituality essentially is, the construction of a coherent worldview that makes sense. God or other concepts like that are just syntactical proxies. Don't read things too literally, or you'll end up coming across as more deluded than the targets of your criticism (or as Harris). "Only the shallowest of minds would think that in great controversy one side is pure folly".

scrapcode• 5 years ago

I haven't really found a practice or routine, yet, but I've always seeked out a higher power and it is something I am still interesting in. I quit drinking alcohol ~60 days ago which drove me to attend some AA meetings. An elderly gentleman while explaining his view of a "higher power" said that he just starts by saying his "please"(s) in the morning (eg. 'please help me through this speech,' etc) and his "thank you"(s) at night - even though he doesn't try to identify who he's speaking to.

Although I hope to eventually have an experience that allows me to have complete faith and belief in something more specific, I thought that was a good place to start. I haven't gotten into the routine myself, but I thought I would share.

sshlocalhost98• 5 years ago

I haven't seen anyone mention Hinduism. I am a Hindu and belong to Advaita Vedanta school of thought.

I begin my day my saluting to the One and the Only Brahman reading Bhagavad-Gita.

meditation on the mantra 'Satyam Jnanam Anantam Brahma'

and trying to realise that everything is Brahman, there's nothing apart from Brahman

chana_masala3• 5 years ago

Namaskaram. I follow Saiva Siddhanta which heavily incorporates Vedanta. My morning sadhana is Ganesh puja then reading Vedas/Agamas/Satguru Upadesha

aero-glide2• 5 years ago

I read Bible sometimes and pray sometimes. I realised I become a very bad person (not thinking of others, being unfair), when I'm away from Christianity.

natch3• 5 years ago

My entire spiritual practice, if you must call it that, is just living life.

I think of the afterlife as the life of people (and other sentient creatures) that will live (or live on) after me, and every day I try to do what I can to make my life AND that afterlife better.

I won’t be there for that afterlife, because I will be very dead, but I believe it is real :-).

Thinking about things this way makes life meaningful and fun.

learner007• 5 years ago

I am Muslim and pray 5x a day. Prayer is the remembrance of God (Allah) and expression of gratitude and love.

Every morning I spend some of my wealth in charity. The Quran puts great emphasis on helping others and on being a good human being. My father used to say it's not the amount, but consistency that matters. I try to keep to that.

Apart from that, I read / listen to the Quran. This is what makes me the happiest spiritually.

simple translations of the Quran: https://beta.quran.com/1

overview of Islam: https://www.javedahmedghamidi.org/#!/mizan (English on top)

cvwright• 5 years ago

Recent convert to Anglicanism here. It’s a lot more formal than the Baptist tradition that I grew up in.

There are a lot of rote prayers for every occasion - morning, night, etc. When I was younger I would have found this inauthentic, forced, and fake. But now I find that it sort of fills a gap. It provides some of the ritual and meditation that I had admired/envied in Eastern traditions like Buddhism.

I’m still sort of easing my way in to all this. So far I’ve been enjoying listening to morning prayer on The Daily Office Podcast [1] with my morning coffee. It’s a great way to start the day.

[1] https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-daily-office-podca...

stuporglue2• 5 years ago

I'm a member of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints.

I read scriptures every day (Book of Mormon, Bible, Doctrine and Covenants) for 10-30 minutes. I turned 40 this year and have a goal to read all of those scriptures cover to cover before my next birthday.

I pray every day as well, at least at night, often when I wake up, and almost always before meals (unless I'm at a restaurant or something).

Weekly I go to church, and go help with the youth activities. I also go visit families and widows regularly — or at least I try to.

I try to worship at the temple (different than the regular weekly church) about monthly.

And I pay 10% of my income as a tithing and give some each month as a "fast offering" to help the needy.

Back to the day to day stuff, I try not to swear, try to be kind, honest, and all the other things Christ was and would be.

dagmx2• 5 years ago

Out of curiosity, are you a recent convert? I would imagine anyone who's as religious as yourself would have easily read all the scriptures by now, rather than aiming to do it by the age of 41?

stuporglue2• 5 years ago

I've read them multiple times over my life, but slowly (like a chapter or two a day). This year I'm trying to read them all within the year, which has me reading a lot more than in the past.

Seems like individual verses hit harder when reading slow, but the larger narrative hits harder when plowing through the books quickly.

krohling• 5 years ago

I don't consider myself religious. Like many folks here (I assume) I've had a strong physicalist lean for much of my life. I've found great joy in the study of math, physics and of course computers.

The pull towards a more spiritual understanding of my condition has been heavily motivated by the mystery of my own consciousness. By consciousness I refer only to pure awareness. This moment in time with this collection of protons and electrons and complex field fluctuations is being experienced. And I find that so incredibly truly strange an inexplicable by any physical description. To carry out this dance of wave function evolution it does not seem that experience would be required at all. Yet it's there. Furthermore, when I'm quiet and my mind settles I can become acutely in touch with this pureness of experience and it appears to transcend mental processing, thoughts, memories and all of the things that are typically used to describe "I".

My story for what the universe is, is something along the lines of a Maxwell Tegmark level 4 multiverse populated with all possible mathematical structures and infused with a panpsychism quality of fundamental experience. Yes, I suspect that even electrons are experienced and I know that's weird lol. In the end though I know this description is just a story that my ego mind needs to make sense of all this stuff and I try not to place too much stock in it.

Practices that I find helpful and meaningful:

-Meditation (I usually aim for about 30 minutes a day)

-Listening to and reading Alan Watts

-Listening to and reading Ram Dass

-Semi-regular psychedelic experience (psilocybin primarily)

-Listening to East Forest's music

thom• 5 years ago

I'm agnostic, but I choose to believe that there's a chance the universe was created, either directly or as a side-effect of some act of will. Given what I know about how complicated projects generally get delivered, I assume that instead of some benevolent, perfect creator, the universe was created in a rush, by some stressed low-level figure. They are probably unhappy with how it turned out, and they had to implement a bunch of performance hacks (the speed of light and quantum mechanics among them) to get it working properly. They may not understand its internal state, or know we exist, but I hope they have at least some grudging affection for their creation, even if it's been superseded by other universes at this point. I call them Colin. I occasionally ask for Colin's help, and in return I try to keep my part of the universe interesting. You are free to join me in Colinism.

deathofsocrates2• 5 years ago

Interesting. I liked your angle on this. Just to add more on it: it is a high chance that we are some sort of a fish in an aquarium. its a vast universe for us but we might not be more than a family of bacterias on a random rock in a tank thats filled with void.

devmunchies• 5 years ago

I had the thought that our relationship to this “colin” could be like a fat cell to a human. If the human is fat, we are happy and we actually have influence. If the human is a body builder, we’re in trouble.

andrei_says_17• 5 years ago

This makes me think of Douglas Adams and Terry Pratchett :)

Is it possible the universe is still being created and what we call Big Bang is an ongoing process of manifested boiling out of the unmanifested ;)

hosh3• 5 years ago

It’s great to see all these responses. I enjoyed looking through these.

My core view is some flavor of monism, and I see no (ultimate) contradictions among monotheistic, polytheistic, pantheistic, even atheistic or apatheistic views. I have had visionary experiences with and without psychedelics. There are some things I don’t need a belief for, having experienced enough.

I spend a lot of time doing healing work on myself, and that bleeds into work on people around me and people I encounter. In the past two years, this work has also bleed into the land as I study and put into practice permaculture design principles.

I used to do mindfulness practices and japa yoga regularly in the mornings. These days, I am practicing neigong with the aim of refining the vessel (the body) to materialize spirit. Or at least, as I can, with helping my wife with our one-year-old child.

account-5• 5 years ago

None. I have none. Don't need one.

ramsundhar20• 5 years ago

Am the embodiment of all the secularism.

Loves every experience in Life’s journey, doesn’t discriminate anyone.

JackFr2• 5 years ago

Roman Catholic. Try to say a rosary every morning. Read that day's mass readings and a blurb or two from Lives of the Saints. Attend mass weekly. Go to confession once or twice a year.

kokizzu2• 5 years ago

Christianity, after comparing few religion, the Jesus teaching and practice (the only required practice is pondering/remembering His words and implement it in real life: like love one another, forgive, test every teaching, etc) far way superior than newer one that claiming to be continuation of it '__')

after reading history of the religion's founder (the killings/torture and robbing, marrying a minor when he's already 50s, marrying his adopted son's wife, very suspicious teachings that only benefit himself, mixed up names and messed up commands in their scripture, demeaning women, etc), I feel like 25% of this world been totally fooled or brainwashed, but thankfully only a little of them that are truly following his teaching/deeds (one that in war region)

newusertoday• 5 years ago

staring at void

SweetLullaby• 5 years ago

Atheism since 2020.

throwaway271658• 5 years ago

I suppose I can say I practice these: throughout every day I deliberately consider whether I am closer to truth in all matters; reaching for truth scientifically on all the grand questions (what is life, why anything exists, etc). Being a non-believer helped a lot while I was undergoing chemotherapy a few years ago. I felt peace in the knowledge that cancer was nothing personal (where there is life, there is cancer).

methusala82• 5 years ago

20 Minutes of Meditation which either takes the form of Transcedantal Meditation or Self enquiry as taught by Sri Ramana Maharshi.

The goal is to initially, quiet the mind, and then realise that there is only Brahman and that there is no such entity called 'Mind'.

kirse3• 5 years ago

Christianity started out for me as a fear-based "obey the rules or die" approach to life but over the last few years it has been moving towards a "I love God & love what is good" theme. These days everyone labels emotions like fear/shame/guilt as "toxic", but I think they have their uses, in the same way fear keeps us from simply walking off a cliff.

Spiritual practice is best when dynamic over disciplined like any relationship, but find that Bible reading / reflection before bed seems to let things marinate over night, and also talking w/ God and simply telling him what I need throughout the day (peace, self-control, etc) is a fruitful practice.

Even if I wasn't a Christian I would still hold an unshakeable belief that this universe has a Creator. It's just far too wonderful of an engineering marvel to say that there isn't a Grand Engineer behind it all. I think that's part of the joy of living, we get to discover the Creator through his creation.

coder4life• 5 years ago

Anything Chang Sen Feng (Tai Chi inventor) had to say is enough for me

TchoBeer9• 5 years ago

I'm a religious Jew, in a bit of a crisis of faith. I still pray three times a day, I still make shabbat and observe holidays, I even still learn Torah even though I don't really believe in it anymore, because I find being well read useful when I have to explain the times I do break the cultural norms to people. Orthodox Judaism in general has a lot of laws everywhere: what you wear, what you eat, what you put in your house, and a lot of prayer and blessings.

Modern orthodox communities of Jews are very weirdly selective about the things they're ok with modernizing and the things they still hold importance with: listening to secular music is fine, wearing modern clothing is fine, but if you play instruments on the sabbath you're shunned. There's something inherently disgustingly coercive about a society that will treat you like a stranger and disown you if you don't get married, let alone if you have a relationship with someone of the same sex. Every day it gets harder to accept myself living a life where I can't openly love the people I love, but there is also a structure and community that secular society doesn't really have. Part of the draws of acceptance is that the sense of community in religious spaces is built not just out of inclusivity (we have the same religion and values) but also exclusivity (we aren't like them) and this means that sometimes you're excluded.

andrei_says_17• 5 years ago

a society that will treat you like a stranger and disown you if you don't get married, let alone if you have a relationship with someone of the same sex

How do you reconcile these within yourself?

My curiosity is about true spiritual practice - the alchemy inside your being.

Is your practice to humble yourself to the rules for example?

Or to follow them while knowing in your heart that they are limiting and possibly outdated?

Externally you could be taking the same actions. Internally it’s not the same.

TchoBeer9• 5 years ago

I don't know how to reconcile them, and it's something I've been struggling to do for quite a while. Even when I was younger I didn't really believe, so going through the motions of spiritual practices I don't find particularly fulfilling to appease others is a familiar state of being. I sometimes find a nice feeling of belonging when I do these things, but that feeling is hard to maintain when my community hates my existence and would cast me out in a heartbeat if I was public about who I am.

defgeneric• 5 years ago

It's a lot easier to leave when you have another community to go to. That's why there's nothing wrong with "sneaking around" or living a separate private life while you build up relationships and friendships.

TchoBeer9• 5 years ago

That's for sure true, and I'm also not sure if everything I want from a community is present elsewhere, at least all in one place. Anyway, it's hard to find a new community to live in when I'm still in college and don't yet have full time employment.

waserwill• 5 years ago

I read this coming from a very different background (secular), but I've seen a lot of these issues around me too. Especially among people raised MO (the chasidish and litvish have similar problems, but frame them differently).

for what it's worth, 18forty has done several discussions on these themes, and they resonated with me: 18forty.org/rational (in particular, with Shmuel Phillips. Their discussions of OTD and mysticism are also very relevant.)

TchoBeer9• 5 years ago

18fourty is a great podcast, I actually personally know the anonymous interviewee.

mFixman• 5 years ago

Have you tried a Reform community? You can get the religious structure and meaning while also not being shunned for loving whomever you love.

TchoBeer9• 5 years ago

I have given it some thought, but I don't really know of any communities of reform Jews, my impression is that reform Jews are less community oriented than modern orthodox communities. Which isn't necessarily bad, it's just different.

braindead_in• 5 years ago

I am a recent convert to Nondualism. I start my day with 1 hour of Yoga Asana's and 30 minutes meditation and end the day with 1 hour of discourses and 30 minutes meditation.

unixhero2• 5 years ago

I am a practicing Agnostic. I slide towards nihilism ever so often, but see its pit of despair and pull myself out of it. Going back to being an agnostic; Hopefully there's something out there. Hopefully.

You know what I wish school hadn't spent the first 9 years of my curriculum teaching protestant christianity, or any religion for that matter. I cannot even imagine the power of teaching kids motivational and spiritual improvement classes instead of wasting my time on religion. Well that never happened, and I've picked up spiritual improvement and motivational stuff later in life. There's still time to make corrections on the trajectory. But when is apogee?

deathofsocrates2• 5 years ago

Atheism. downright non-believer. Grew up by a deist family. they were not really religious. I do remember hearing praying every now and then from my childhood but it was not something that's reflected to me as important part of life. Later on met lots of religious people but did not find them interesting. After learning more about science and technology, the unresolved facts started to disturb me while I was still young. Later in life started being interested in philosophy and learned that i need to learn more about the things that i disagree. hence end up reading most of the holy books, found them close to reading LOTR. My thoughts on spiritual practice? Religion is required for most of the people because it is a meditation and a safe bay for the minds that are unable to bear the hard facts in this universe. I find it very stupid and inefficient for humanity to spend so much resources on it but I do not disrespect the religious community except the extremists and the people who's life's meaning is religion. I also believe that the majority of people are belong to a religion because they don't want to be seen as an outsider or due to their social state or job etc. Or probably because it's been an important part of their family. because it is very hard to unsee the cruel world and fool yourself with religion. "Science is the most reliable guide for civilization, for life, for success in the world. Searching a guide other than the science is meaning carelessness, ignorance and heresy."

spacebanana7• 5 years ago

How do you define science? Most attempts at formal definitions involve some sequence of hypothesis/experiment/observation (e.g. wikipedia [1]). With such definitions, however, it's not clear that the employment of some respectable modes of learning like mathematics or the historical method amount to doing science.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scientific_method

metadaemon6• 5 years ago

If religion is the dogmatic structure around spiritual practice, are you spiritual to any degree outside of the dogma?

theonething18• 5 years ago

it is very hard to unsee the cruel world and fool yourself with religion

I'm Christian and it is seeing this cruel world that confirms for me the existence of human sin and the need for a solution.

Science is wonderful and explains a lot of things and has resulted in a lot of good, but so far for me, it doesn't not explain adequately why this world is so cruel and what to do about. And it doesn't speak to morality either. Morality I'd argue is pretty important for a happy and functioning society.

stjohnswarts2• 5 years ago

Morality is orthogonal to religion.

davidbiehl• 5 years ago

i was raised in the church of jesus christ of latter day saints (aka the mormon church) at some point in my adult life, the stress and anxiety of being a “practicing” member of the church led to the point where i couldn’t attend sacrament meetings without a panic attack. i have stopped participating and have found that my quality of life has improved.

i’m not sure what my belief system is, but i think about death a lot… and in an odd way it helps me appreciate life right now. the thought of an afterlife freaks me out. i want to believe that death is the end. the scarcity of time reminds me how valuable my friends and family are, reminds me to be generous to others, and helps me to live in the moment.

i believe in karma and have found that when i help others in their time of need that it circles back around when i am in need.

in my experience, organized religion overcomplicates things.

let’s be excellent to each other.

gremlinsinc6• 5 years ago

Also exmormon (agnostic but somewhat spiritual) here...

I like the concept that maybe we're just the universe dreaming of itself. Like when we die...it's like rain drops returning to the ocean.

If you haven't seen Midnight Mass, I can't recommend it enough great Netflix series, but as one character is dying, there's a brilliant monologue (depending on who you ask, some hated it but I loved it!) that touches on this idea.

I like to believe that there could be something else ..but that regardless it doesn't require a deity, and everyone's invited, and that I should live as if there isn't because I can't possibly know if there is, and everything in life is valuable.

praptak• 5 years ago

I do a 25 minute meditation sit every day. The framework I practice in is "The Mind Illuminated" which is ancient Buddhist meditation texts (mostly Asanga) retold for us contemporaries.

FTR, I consider myself a rationalist.

calebm• 5 years ago

I was raised as a preachers' kid in the ultra-conservative Church of Christ Christian denomination, and I thought we were the only ones that had the truth and everyone else was going to hell. But I wondered why God doesn't show himself. Fast-forward to 2 decades of searching later, and I now hold a panentheistic - we are living in God, we are all part of God, and we are all tuning into the truth. I see God everywhere I look, and I hear God speak (both by positive and negative contrast) everywhere and in everything. I lean towards the idea that "all is as it should be, but not as it should stay". Perfection is not a static destination - we are tuning into God like the Fibonacci sequence tunes into the Golden Ratio. Christ is the Universe/Art/Word, the Father is the Artist/Speaker, and the Spirit is the Artistic reason. I think we're all going to heaven, and it bothers me when people say Daddy is going to throw a bunch of people in an eternal torture chamber - that's not my Dad.

metadaemon6• 5 years ago

I believe in roughly the same concept, I'm glad there is a name for it!

5F7bGnd6fWJ66xN• 5 years ago

Religion is a form of psychotherapy. Prayer is a form of meditation.

The prevalence of it across time, geography and cultures is an indication of its usefulness to humankind.

yashap2• 5 years ago

Atheist-ish - no spiritual practice of any kind.

In terms of beliefs, I think there’s a tonne of massive, unanswered questions about the universe, and it’s certainly possible that there are forces out there that resemble spiritual concepts. Something vaguely resembling a soul, or an intelligent life that created the universe, that sort of thing. Or not - I have no real opinion on this other than “nobody knows”.

I do think that all popular religions on earth were created by people, though. Likely started similar to cults, and evolved into something much more loosely controlled. I don’t think they’re entirely negative, religion can be a powerful positive force for a lot of people, but I do think they’re just stories made by humans, for humans.

ss1083• 5 years ago

Sounds like you're more of an Agnostic, no?

yashap2• 5 years ago

Yeah, that might be a better description. Atheist and agnostic are both somewhat loose terms with a lot of overlap.

DangitBobby2• 5 years ago

Gnostic means you know, agnostic means you don't. Theist means you believe, atheist means you don't. A gnostic atheist "knows" there's no god and an agnostic theist thinks there's a god. In this case, GP is an agnostic atheist.

jandrewrogers2• 5 years ago

That depends on the formalism and the objective. If we accept agnostic priors then the most rational belief implied by those priors is atheism, via the same formalisms that give us Ockham's Razor. That belief is conditional but it is a very strong condition such that you would not expect someone that held agnostic priors to not also be operationally atheist for all practical purposes.

Similarly, most atheists seem to hold agnostic priors but fully realize the implications of that by calling themselves "atheists".

hackingthelema8• 5 years ago

In terms of beliefs, I think there’s a tonne of massive, unanswered questions about the universe, and it’s certainly possible that there are forces out there that resemble spiritual concepts. Something vaguely resembling a soul, or an intelligent life that created the universe, that sort of thing. Or not - I have no real opinion on this other than “nobody knows”.

I'd tend to agree that nobody knows for certainty all truths of the universe, but there are well-documented processes like insight meditation that lead to certain altered states of consciousness (jhanas/dhyana & samadhi), that some people call knowledge/experience of the Soul or God. While you might disagree with the interpretation of these experiences as the 'Soul' 'God', the experiences are concrete enough to light up the brain in a brain scan.

I do think that all popular religions on earth were created by people, though.

They were, but they were based on people who had real experiences of god or the spirit or what have you. Swami Vivekananda said it better than I can in Raja Yoga (1896):

Religion, as it is generally taught all over the world, is said to be based upon faith and belief, and, in most cases, consists only of different sets of theories, and that is the reason why we find all religions quarrelling with one another. These theories, again, are based upon belief. One man says there is a great Being sitting above the clouds and governing the whole universe, and he asks me to believe that solely on the authority of his assertion. In the same way, I may have my own ideas, which I am asking others to believe, and if they ask a reason, I cannot give them any. This is why religion and metaphysical philosophy have a bad name nowadays. Every educated man seems to say, "Oh, these religions are only bundles of theories without any standard to judge them by, each man preaching his own pet ideas." Nevertheless, there is a basis of universal belief in religion, governing all the different theories and all the varying ideas of different sects in different countries. Going to their basis we find that they also are based upon universal experiences. [...]
The teachers of the science of Yoga, therefore, declare that religion is not only based upon the experience of ancient times, but that no man can be religious until he has the same perceptions himself. Yoga is the science which teaches us how to get these perceptions. It is not much use to talk about religion until one has felt it. Why is there so much disturbance, so much fighting and quarrelling in the name of God? There has been more bloodshed in the name of God than for any other cause, because people never went to the fountain-head; they were content only to give a mental assent to the customs of their forefathers, and wanted others to do the same. What right has a man to say he has a soul if he does not feel it, or that there is a God if he does not see Him? If there is a God we must see Him, if there is a soul we must perceive it; otherwise it is better not to believe. It is better to be an outspoken atheist than a hypocrite. The modern idea, on the one hand, with the "learned" is that religion and metaphysics and all search after a Supreme Being are futile; on the other hand, with the semi-educated, the idea seems to be that these things really have no basis; their only value consists in the fact that they furnish strong motive powers for doing good to the world. If men believe in a God, they may become good, and moral, and so make good citizens. We cannot blame them for holding such ideas, seeing that all the teaching these men get is simply to believe in an eternal rigmarole of words, without any substance behind them.

andrei_says_17• 5 years ago

I am the person who posted this question and didn’t mention religion.

Someone in the thread mentioned stoicism, another person mentioned playing Tetris as a practice.

If you have a non-religious one - what is it? How do you connect to your deep self on a daily basis?

raptorraver2• 5 years ago

Orthodox Christian here. I pray before our icons in the mornings and evenings and use prayer rope through out the day to read Jesus-prayer [1] (perfect in boring Teams-meetings :)) I try to attend Liturgy every sunday and mostly read books by saints and Church Fathers nowadays. The depth of the teachings of the Church and beauty of out services still astounish me after 11 years of being member of the Church. It’s sad when people judge christians but don’t know anything about the original christianity which differs quite a lot from typical protestantism.

Biggest difference between eastern and western christianity is how we view sin and salvation. In the west they view those from legalistic pov, but we think sin as a disease which can be healed in the Church. That’s why usually orthodox christians aren’t judgmental to others but instead focus on their own struggle.

I’m happy to answer any questions!

1. https://orthodoxwiki.org/Jesus_Prayer

markozivanovic• 5 years ago

I am a practicing Markoist. I don't have any children, mostly living my life in solitude. Every morning I wake up, I feel different. Sometimes I think about killing myself because this shit doesn't make sense. Sometimes I hop out of bed feeling excited about everything, and I go out and do exciting shit. I believe in myself. I believe in finding the answers within myself. That's why I'm a Markoist, a religion named by the name my parents gave me. I think it's no different than any other religion I have encountered; this is just one I can own. I have a lot of extraordinary rituals I came up with. I do them daily.

I respect others, and all I want in return is the respect back.

BlueTie• 5 years ago

I read The Kingdom of God Is Within You by Tolstoy (who became very spiritual himself and wrote a bunch of religious texts later in his life) and the Bhagavad Gita (two of his Gandhi's biggest inspirations).

It's part why-has-no-one-picked-up-this-thread when two greats like Tolstoy and Gandhi were exploring this together historical interest and part spiritual exploration for me and has been supremely fulfilling so far.

I haven't grounded it all yet but the abolishment of violence of any kind (including things like revenge and self-defense) seems like the most pure moral code I can find + baking that in to the divinity of the Gita (stripping down who you are in it's purest form and seeing the relation of that you + the cosmos).

It's been a few good months. I hope it continues.

newacc9• 5 years ago

Catholic-Sedevacantist. Day-to-day: pray the 15 decade rosary and fast a couple times a week. Sedevacantist means someone who rejects Vatican II, its leaders and reforms as breaking from tradition. https://endtimes.video/ to learn more.

elboru• 5 years ago

Complex times to be a Catholic. It’s sad to see our church divided with so many shades of gray, even in the traditional side. God bless you and Merry Christmas

KronisLV2• 5 years ago

Daily existential crisis due to my own mortality. Curiously, the sensation of ever present dread keeps me grounded. Coming to terms with the fact that i'm in a losing battle against entropy itself really puts things in perspective.

I'm mostly atheistic and, in my understanding of the world, once my consciousness ceases to be functional within my body, i'll be forever gone. So that's what i center my contemplation of life around. There will be a day which will be the last for me, a thought that i'll have, which will be followed by eternal non existence. No matter how good or bad the things that will come after will be, i won't be able to experience them, even my awareness will no longer be here in any form, the concept of time breaking down because i won't observe it. In short, i have an expiration date, so it would be nice to do what i can to put it off for a bit longer. Furthermore, it's nice to make the days leading up to it meaningful, if i can and feel like doing so.

Framing things like that really makes most things seem rather meaningless and thus absolves me of worrying about the daily minutea too much, or getting too emotionally invested in any of it. For example, right now i'm stuck in the middle of conflicting value systems in my country and social circles. Not necessarily nihilism or even anti-natalism either, just the realization that i have a finite amount of emotion to feel towards the world around me and care to put in it.

DISCLAIMER: the following is highly polarizing and one example of things that i've seen consume people's time, identities and lives. Things that are better to avoid in my eyes, offered as an example. Skip to the end of italics if you'd like to skip this part.

On one side, there is a large part of my current culture that's oftentimes mean, xenophobic, homophobic, transphobic, racist and so on, which would have me act a certain way and uphold both their traditions and stereotypes in some sisyphean pursuit of a conformative national identity, in a world that's becoming more and more globalized and where many of these concepts of old aren't always relevant.

Then there's a different part, which perhaps leans too much in the opposite direction, not realizing how dangerous expressing themselves freely can be in a society where the former group is not viewed as a credible threat, a disconnect between what should be and what actually is, and sometimes just want to react to things purely based on emotion and not explore the finer points and nuance (e.g. how RMS was "cancelled" some time ago, despite possibly not being neurotypical and lacking compassion where some could have been useful), sometimes desiring to break down systems for no good reason.

Then there are the corporate interests which view me and others as expendable resources and members of society that should be freed from their financial burden of having disposable income, and who'll go to great lengths to achieve that, anything from intruisive ads to trying to convince me that i need things which i don't, the greater systems at play essentially ensuring that i'll receive only a small percentile of the income that i actually generate with my work, even home ownership currently being out of reach, as is financial independence of any sort.

I guess i could also throw in organized religion or other groups that exploit people's need for belonging, from social media, to multi level marketing - oftentimes spouting their own values and beliefs as fact, typically with certain non-publicly expressed goals in mind. Groups that would be quick to indoctrinate me in their midst and make me lead my life in better alignment with their values.

On a grander scale, one can even talk about things like environmentalism here. On one side, you have outright denial of what's going on with the planet and a desire not to change anything from how it was, to go far beyond the "business as usual" scenario for the economic and environmental outcomes. On the other, you sometimes have crafty entrepreneurs, whose promises are detached for reality, or activism to the degree where the individual action is far beyond what any human being would reasonably do.

From every side, there are groups of people and ideologies that try to get me to align with what they want me to align with and believe what they say, yet none of those really matter. I'll just tell each group what they want to hear so they don't end my existence or make it worse, and apart from that i'll just continue my life one day at a time. Why? Because after the aforementioned contemplation, there's no reason for me to throw my life away while attempting to follow any of their teachings, nor is there a reason for me to try to oppose them and ruin my life that way.

Instead, i should care about myself first and foremost. Get enough sleep. Eat reasonably healthily. Get some fresh air every day. Do some light exercise. Learn a skill, ideally something both mental and also something else that can be done with my hands. Play with my pets to feel better. Read what i want and entertain myself however i please. Learn something new to put myself in a better position in the future. Build relationships with the people who can make me enjoy a friendship with them. Avoid or cut out those who won't be healthy for me in the long term. Be nice to others so i can feel good about myself, or count on them to do the same. Just generally make existing more pleasant. Don't buy too much into what anyone says, but instead occasionally pause and take apart their arguments and reasoning to see how mine aligns or conflicts with theirs.

My life is too short for me to stress about those things, or to get too invested in social constructs. It is also probably too short for me to reap the benefits from life extension tech or viable cryogenics. Alas, i'm probably born to die. So why not make my life and myself better until then?

So, in short: a form of mindfulness/contemplation that's born out of needing to cope with various stressors in life.

foobiekr4• 5 years ago

Daily existential crisis due to my own mortality

I had this for a long time. The thing that cured it was that I remind myself every day how many days I should expect to live, how many of those days will be healthy enough to do anything, and what % of my remaining life and healthspan this year is.

Even though it would seem this makes things worse, my experience is that it is the opposite. It is like tossing some eggshells in coffee - the bitterness goes down and things get a hell of a lot clearer. A few months after I started doing this, I stopped waffling on decisions and decision paralysis went away.

KronisLV2• 5 years ago

Yep, of course, if worries like that prevent a person from actually living their life and being a functional member of society (in whatever capacity they wish to be one), then it's probably helpful to seek counseling or additional help with that. However, if things aren't so dire, being aware of the approximate time that you have left might actually motivate you to focus on what you want to achieve etc. The first time i saw a "life calendar", it felt a bit macabre, but upon further consideration, that's just one form of practicing mindfulness.

At the very least, it seems to be working out nicely for some rather productive people out there, like Randall Thomas (you can see one such calendar in the background in some of his videos about programming his own game engine): https://www.youtube.com/c/RandallThomas/videos

Personally, that awareness helped me deal with worrying about what my peers would think of me and so on. I mean, come on, we're all hurtling through space on an impeccable piece of rock with our entire existence being a splendid display of maths, physics and chemistry, yet even so it's just a blip on the overall time scale of the universe. Why should i worry in the slightest about what my clothes look like, or the stupid thing that i said 4 years ago, that no one even cares about?

I'd still call what i'm experiencing a "crisis" since the underlying problem of being mortal isn't really solved and might not be in my life span, but it can definitely be interpreted as something not wholly negative.

That said, i bet one can write a lot of amazing fiction after pondering the eventual point in time where it could reasonably be solved. At first, imagine our elderly being able to live out their days in peak physical shape, without being forced to witness their bodies breaking down with age. Then, imagine those few who'd actually want that sort of thing, being able to live for thousands if not tens or hundreds of thousands of years. Oh, how much one could learn. Oh, how much you'd start caring about the long term impacts of your actions, then. Truly an interesting topic!

mboperator• 5 years ago

I’m thankful for the openness and respectfulness of this discussion.

Prior to my conversion I’d identify myself largely with new age spirituality and stoicism. They were pragmatic in that they seemingly satiated the need for the divine and encouraged behaviors that were productive from a societal perspective.

I was saved in January of 2019. The early days of walking with Christ were beautiful. I sold my most ostentatious worldly possessions, bought a motorcycle, and would ride into the mountains to find a patch of grass and read the Bible to learn more about God.

God is gracious. The more I earnestly sought Him, the more He revealed Himself.

Nowadays, I start my day with prayer and usually a brief study in the Bible. I like to focus on what the passage conveys about God’s character. Afterwards I pray for His guidance as to the tasks to carry out for the day.

I try to pray throughout the day but I’m most deliberate about praying during transitions (ie: from hands on work to taking a meeting)

I end the day with a prayer for wisdom as I open the scriptures again, then finally a prayer of thanksgiving before bed.

I’ve found that Jesus is less about religious tradition and more about understanding who God is and what He has done, what His Will is, and doing it. In the heart of one who truly believes in Christ, this order increases our love and joy in God.

Everything else — church, serving people, acting morally - is downstream from loving God and our neighbor as ourself.

nie100sowny2• 5 years ago

I’ve found that Jesus is less about religious tradition and more about understanding who God is and what He has done, what His Will is, and doing it. In the heart of one who truly believes in Christ, this order increases our love and joy in God.

It's very difficult to understand it alone. And that's the reason why Jesus created the Apostolic Church and all of its tradition. To save people from this World and lead them to God. That's the goal number one for the Church and Christians as well.

travisgriggs• 5 years ago

I try to be a disciple of Jesus Christ. I am a member of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints. I like to seek out and fold in examples and teachings of other religious leaders as well as long as I can resolve differences in some creative way. I am particular keen of various Asian ideas of late.

I read scriptures and other inspiring works when impressed to (I think that Dr Seuss, The Life of Pi, and maybe Laura Ingalls Wilder should be canonized—chuckle).

I serve weekly in the temple as a Latter Day Saint. There is a regularity and and a sense of the cosmic to it that lifts me and grounds me at the same time. Over the years I’ve volunteered/served in a number of different capacities, often with youth/scouts/seminary. I have found that this practice of contributing my efforts to help others has been uplifting for me. I have learned that if my own creativity/agency is removed from that service, then it turns from uplifting to toxic.

I am probably considered somewhat progressive by many of my LDS peers; I am very comfortable abstracting over much of what we “believe.” tue theological details are just not that important to me; I am more interested in what we do from moment to moment, than whether I’m tapping my ruby slippers together fervently enough. Or put another way, as a bi-weekly Sunday school teacher, I’m more interested in encouraging the class how we apply the ideas in our lives than trying to weave some sort of canonical soundness.

hycaria4• 5 years ago

Why not pick some less controversial church?

skinkestek7• 5 years ago

Many don't get to pick.

Our "leader"[1] have told us more than once to go elsewhere if we aren't interested.

At times it can come of as a trick, but twenty years later and seeing the way he treats people that leaves our church, i.e. friendly and with all respect I've come to realize he just doesn't want anyone to stay around just because they feel they must.

Still I'd find it hard to leave luckily to a large degree because it has meant a lot to me and they are my dear friends.

[1]: the one who most often starts our meetings as we don't have any schools or certifications to become a preacher, priest or anything

----------------------

Edit: looking at what I wrote above I feel a bit silly trying to elevate "us".

Sorry for that. Deadline for rewriting (2 hours) approaches quickly and I don't have a good idea about how to rewrite it, so please feel free to do so mentally.

My point is: I appreciate the liberty I get to approach other churches, to see if anyone teaches the same things we learn in the same or a better way or even to say that I only want to become a regular churchgoer. I appreciate the approch that our kids, even if they choose something different as adults should still look back at their childhood with joy.

I'm fairly certain this liberty isn't given to everyone else around, but I have no idea about how this is practiced elsewhere.

Well, I do have an idea, but I have realized lately that does ideas was planted by the same medias who plant lies about my friends, so I am very wary about what I think even about JW, a group that I think I deeply disagree with in theological questions.

jsrcout• 5 years ago

+1 on Laura Ingalls Wilder.

Beltiras• 5 years ago

100% agnostic. I argue like an atheist thou, meh is really not an interesting position to take. Also, I really like upsetting the expectation of religious people that they have ownership of virtue.

robg• 5 years ago

Finding time to just be and breathe. Some traditions call it prayer, others mediation. Breath is life itself. Adding in awe helps with the significance, whether from stars or wind or crème brûlée or sleeping in a cozy bed. Just breathe. My four year old said: “Enjoy the wow that’s happening now”. Decent summary for a basic spirituality with each breath and without the theological complications of “good” and “evil”. Our breath is a simple outlet for our humanity and the neural pathways from the lungs slows the heart.

soheil• 5 years ago

I like reading when on the toilet.

scelerat• 5 years ago

Atheist christian, I guess. Grew up in a denominational "peace church," Church of The Brethren, where quiet, non-self-aggrandizing service to others was emphasized over theistic dogma and attention-grabbing displays of piety. One hymn I remember had the refrain, "they will know we are Christians by our love," and not by "us" proclaiming it so.

I opted not to be baptized because I didn't agree with everything I had to say to be baptized, mostly around divinity and existence of supernatural beings, and that statement of mine was met with kind acceptance.

A lot of my behavior towards other people was shaped by that church and that attitude, and I try to think about what it means to also give someone your shirt when they are asking for a coat. Also, about "what you do to the least of your brethren you do to me," not because Jesus, but because we live together on this speck of dirt for a very short, and sometimes, very rough amount of time, and I believe we make it better for everyone by treating those with less or nothing with dignity and respect.

I'm an atheist insofar as I don't believe in gods or demons or afterlife beyond chemical decomposition, but I have difficulty identifying with those who proclaim their atheism loudly, much as I look askance on anyone who makes a big deal about their peculiar beliefs about the unknowable. I'm quite horrified by religious extremism, but I'm not going to begrudge anyone their spiritual or communal sanctuary.

dagmx2• 5 years ago

I was raised Hindu and Christian (both Protestant and Catholic). I was also taught Islam to widen my world view.

As a child, the exposure to multiple religions made me a staunch atheist. I think I've been an atheist since I can remember, at least since I was five or six.

The teachings aren't compatible. There's too many times that you'd be taught that you need religion to be moral, or that there's one true God (mostly from the monotheistic ones) or that there's too many subjective interpretations. Worse, I grew up seeing the immorality of many religious people from huckster gurus, to pastors taking donations and not accounting for where it went and the news at the time was of the Catholic churches coverup of pedophilia. As a young child, it all just seemed so deeply wrong.

Anyway atheism makes sense to me. Morality is logic combined with cultural context. Not having religion let me be more open to more cultures, and I find studying the cultural aspects of other religions more fascinating than when I was taught that there should only be one.

My spiritual practice therefore is trying to learn more about different cultures and people. Understanding different perspectives helps give me clarity to my own, without the burden of trying to fit it into an existing religious framework

guilhas• 5 years ago

I do take comfort in believing there is some kind of God somewhere. It really does not matter if it exists, or what is it, and it does not rule over my life. It just fills what is missing spiritually

As most people don't really follow any regular religious ritual on lack of time. My girlfriend does take our child to the local mini-church activity which is fun and entertaining

sublatio2• 5 years ago

I’ve practiced meditation daily for several years. I find this indispensable for my internal sense of well-being, as well as for my relationships (gives me the space and perspective for more empathy) and work (better, focus, less catastrophizing).

A big boost to my practice this past year has been Integral Life Practice (https://www.integral-life-practice.com). This isn’t something different from the meditation practice I already had, but it’s more a framework for integrating spiritual practice across the various aspects of life (body, mind, spirit, shadow, etc). It’s adaptable to whatever religious/spiritual practice one might have, and has helped me uncover areas in my life where I’m not paying enough attention (for me, body and shadow). I print off a grid each week of the specific practices I want to focus on, and a particularly satisfying way to end my day is to check off the activities I’ve done for the day. Here’s an example to give an idea of what this might look like https://youtu.be/TIrnv4Hlpw0

stevenjgarner• 5 years ago

I'm a good-natured heathen.

bcrosby95• 5 years ago

I like to sit quietly and think about nothing.

ss1083• 5 years ago

Muslim, but not particularly practicing or religious (though I am aiming to be moreso and my knowledge of the religion's history, development, and jurisprudence is certainly above that of most practicing Muslims I have met).

On an actual daily basis: meditation and journaling. I have also incorporated, on most days, listening to Islamic stuff on YouTube in the mornings, and reading the Quran in translation at night before bed.

There was a time period where I was praying 1 or 2 out of 5 of the daily Islamic prayers per day and I would say that this correlated with higher levels of contentment and also secular/temporal success, so I would like to get in the regular habit of that again.

omarfarooq15• 5 years ago

May Allah establish you on His straight path.

ss1083• 5 years ago

Thanks

kenny87• 5 years ago

I converted to the Baha'i Faith from Christianity about 15 years ago, after investigating Islam and Buddhism. Very happy to see this topic trending on HN. Our daily practice consists of reading the Holy writings every morning and evening, daily prayer and meditation, and service. There's a prayer from our tradition that says may "this American democracy become glorious in spiritual degrees even as it has aspired to material degrees ... ." I cherish this hope for this nation and all humanity.

preordained• 5 years ago

A Course in Miracles. The Disappearance of the Universe by Gary Renard was my gateway.

psyc2• 5 years ago

Neophilia? Otherwise, none.

iamshs• 5 years ago

Sikh here. I mutter Waheguru 2-3 times a day. In a year, recite Japji Sahib maybe 10-15 times. In a year, god on my lips is for barely an hour. I do seva (community service) a lot and that provides me peace.

songzme• 5 years ago

Eliminate expectations. It seems like 100% of my negative feelings stem from having expectations of people around me. I would say this single practice has the most impact in reducing my negative feelings in the past 2 years.

enaaem• 5 years ago

Raised Christian, then become Atheist. For the past two years I have been looking into Buddhism. I find it helpful to deal with the eb and flows of life.

kstrauser2• 5 years ago

I am, unironically, a Dudeist. Think Buddhism, minus the mystical components. I believe balance is crucial: Walter without The Dude is too active. The Dude without Walter is too passive.

I meditate regularly, too. Imagine you had the ability to spawn a watchdog thread that could monitor your emotional state and notice when it gets out of whack, and then you could shift focus to that thread. "Huh, I'm experiencing a lot of fear right now. Why is that? This isn't an objectively fearful situation, like a wild dog chasing me. So what is it about this that's making my heart rate increase?" It's amazing how often simply noticing and asking those questions can defuse a stressful moment.

rootusrootus• 5 years ago

Nothing. I am ignostic. An interesting benefit of this position is that when the religious folks in my extended family ask about my religion and I tell them I'm ignostic, they 100% of the time misinterpret that as 'agnostic'. For some reason they can totally accept this position, maybe they just figure I'll eventually come around.

I do not disabuse them of this interpretation, because I avoid conflict. And religion, much like politics, seems to result in conflict most of the time.

Normal_gaussian2• 5 years ago

Ignosticism is the ultimate "I've had enough of this shit". I too take advantage of the hard of hearing to get on with my life both in peace and a sense of superiority.

smeej• 5 years ago

This is the first time I've come across the term, and I'm a bit baffled by it.

It could be that my quick web search just turned up poor definitions, but if so, I'm hoping you'll correct me from your own understanding.

It sounds like it's saying the word "god" has no referent, that it's conceptually vacant. But it seems obvious to me that there are literally hundreds of concepts people do mean when they use the term, some of which cannot be vacant by definition (i.e., "that than which nothing greater can be conceived," because it's a definition that depends on being just within the vacant limits of understanding).

So what do you mean by it?

pempem• 5 years ago

I appreciate all of the conversation below, although the dynamic in the majority of comments seems to be Christianity vs atheism/greek philosophy largely stoicism.

There is so much more out there and often has endured for longer periods of time. Other religions, hinduism in particular but also buddhism, allow for an incredibly large number of permutations of practice and adherence while still assuming association. Worth considering.

I defined myself as an atheist in the sixth grade. I do not believe in a or many gods that concern themselves with human appeals or behavior or the institutions that proffer the word of god. As Kazanstakis would say: Without hope, without fear, I am free.

Still, IMO our actions remain internally debated because we have a collectivist spirit at our core. Those without the core, the ability to relate and take on concern for another are considered psychopathic.

A self defined morality is something I've chosen. My spiritual practice is very animist as a result. Hiking in the woods, submerged in the ocean, looking to find a calm or balance and identifying the fears, questions, goals that motivate me like other living beings on the planet. Appealing to the reality that these forces are in many ways, beyond my comprehension and much stronger than my will and capability.

7357• 5 years ago

altruism

selfhifive2• 5 years ago

I practice my religion, believe in god, and pray for some minutes during the evening.

Believing in spirituality without religion leads to a cognitive dissonance.

My philosophy is that there are too many things that we simply cannot observe due to the limitations of our senses and thought/imagination, so to dismiss god is not truly rational.

Spirituality is removed from any material success, so to go into any spiritual practice for an "edge" is not right.

If you want an edge in the material world then persuasion psychology and probability theory are your friends.

Also we tend to forget that science is a philosophy that does not say this is how the world is, but says this is how we understand the world. It's important to keep that distinction in mind.

metadaemon6• 5 years ago

I'd almost think that believing in a particular religion would lead to cognitive dissonance rather than the other way around. Could you expand on that a bit?

selfhifive2• 5 years ago

Let's say you do not practice any religion but believe in a higher power.

What is the goal of spirituality? Self knowledge. And self knowledge is also the knowledge about how you are related to said higher power and the people around you.

If you believe in spirituality but not religion it can be almost impossible to know what your relationship with the higher power is and how you stand in the community. Yes you can have your assumptions but they are unverified.

Religion gives you a framework where spirituality exists. Without that framework the idea of spirituality enters a domain where it has an extremely vague definition which, from a utilitarian perspective, is not useful.

So if the idea of spirituality loses its specificity to the point where it doesn't signify any particular idea which is grounded in some manner it creates a dissonance. You end up believing, say, the idea of crops without roots.

It's okay to revise particular beliefs with the times, but the central philosophies and practices of any religion (Eg. Fasting for a set number of days/abstaining from certain foods or activities for a set number of days) are essential.

aristofun10• 5 years ago

watching Jordan Peterson lectures of course )

pryelluw• 5 years ago

I wake up, go downstairs, feed the dog, make some breakfast, listen to a podcast about philosophy or science, login to work, write some code, do some meetings, have lunch, play some video games, walk the dog, have dinner, and go to sleep.

silent_cal• 5 years ago

I'm a Catholic - I go to Mass most mornings, pray a daily Rosary, and have been getting more in the habit of Scripture reading and meditation. I also pray little prayers and make the sign of the Cross throughout the day when I need help.

dr_dshiv3• 5 years ago

Anyone have experience with western esotericism or neoplatonism?

dr_dshiv3• 5 years ago

Anyone have experience with psychedelic spirituality?

namero9996• 5 years ago

They have been my gateway to spirituality, whatever than means. I approach them the same way a Christian would approach Easter or Christmas or any other ritual. They are indeed a ritual which "happened to happen" to me. They are sacred under the only definition of sacred that I'm 100% comfortable with: that which keeps on giving regardless of how many times you have interfaced with it.

emrah• 5 years ago

I had been taught I could simply confess whatever and it would be forgiven

I personally agree that this is nonsense but there are kernels of good ideas in religious ideologies even if they are warped beyond recognition and usefulness.

For example, the concept of confessing sins is practical actually. Not for the purpose of "being forgiven", but one has to acknowledge and admit that one did something bad before it is possible to try to change that behavior for good. Without admitting or seeing an act was bad, there is no hope in fixing it.

So yeah, if we could undo all the "warping" of concepts, regardless of where they came from, "religion" wouldn't be so bad but it seems beyond fixing at this point. It's wrapped up in emotions like guilt and fear, and that makes it hard to separate the manipulators from those who are truly trying to help.

techload• 5 years ago

This text may be interesting to some: Letter to a Brazilian Mason, by Marcelo Ramos Motta. https://www.parareligion.ch/dplanet/motta/moma2.htm

jandrewrogers2• 5 years ago

To be completely honest, I've never been able to figure out what "spiritual" actually means. Every use of it in the wild appears to be directly reducible to some other mundane meaning minus the rituals, which always led me to believe that rituals were the purpose. My father was a well-educated preacher and he could not explain it either when I was growing up, saying it existed mostly as a suitcase word that had no distinct constructive meaning, while also asserting it was nonetheless important to the nature of religion. He acknowledged this was an objectively poor answer that raised questions about why anyone should care but couldn't offer anything better. Yet there is this weird expectation that everyone should be "spiritual" in some way, and this expectation can be perfectly satisfied via trivial performance in practice.

So when people ask me if I am spiritual in some way, my response is always "I have no idea". When they try to explain it, it always ends up being equivalent to the reductionist meanings I've inferred by default. (Human languages have many suitcase words, many without any connection to religion, that encapsulate incoherent concept spaces. The idea of spirituality appears to be just one of many.)

foobiekr4• 5 years ago

I was raised atheist by atheist parents. My mother was raised in one of the weirder Christian sects and got out of it before they married. I have always been an atheist despite growing up in a small town with a church on every block, including one whacky church that actually did things like book burnings and burning Michael Jackson in effigy for corrupting the youth. Most of my friends were catholic, growing up, and that led me online for friends on days when they had CCC. 300 baud hayes for the win and online atheist communities, etc.

That said, as I've gotten older, I think I've concluded that many people - maybe even most - have a sort of need for religion that I somehow never appreciated. Without religion, I think we end up with the modern world, and by that I mean the weird secular religions (on all parts of the political spectrum) that keep springing up in the absence of a formal church, complete with weird notions of sin, apocalyptic thinking, etc. As an outsider, and as someone fascinated by cults and moral panics, it's interesting how similar the structures and language are between these movements and (new) religions are.

So 100% atheist.. but a suspicion that the world would be better off, Chesterton's fence-style, with a dominant religion secretly run by atheists.

andrei_says_17• 5 years ago

I, too, was raised in a religion-free environment.

The longer I live, the more I am convinced in the extraordinary nature of our minds to define reality.

At this point I am inclined to admit that in the universe of people who believe in God, God truly exists.

This leads me to have deep respect for religious devotees, and for atheists and agnostics alike.

foobiekr4• 5 years ago

No, I'm still an atheist. There's no reason to believe in god nor any evidence that we define reality through our beliefs and experiences (and a lot of evidence that this has zero impact at all, a la the entire pool of continuously disappointed "The Secret" devotees).

I'm just saying that I think there is a sort of need in most people, probably an accident of evolution, even one that has some positive fitness value due to second order effects, to have something religion shaped. Atheists like me basically helped create the mess we were in by helping to destroy the more mainstream religions thereby creating an opportunity for straight up crazypants stuff to emerge with properties that are harder to deal with (nothing is written down, nothing is consistent - Q) by pointing out the flaws and obvious falseness. We acted as a selection function for an even more terrible set of ideas.

In a lot of ways the current situation is very similar to the second great awakening in the early 19th century which spawned a number of cult-like sects of Christianity.

hudon6• 5 years ago

wake up: offer my day to God, thank him for as many things as I can

morning: read the Bible

noon: pray a Rosary and offer the prayers for peace (generally) and healing (for specific people)

throughout the day: thank him, praise him, tell him my anxieties, ask him for help

evening: pray to saints, ask them to pray for me, praise God

night: examine my day, thank God, see where I faltered and wronged Him or my neighbor (anger, lust, sloth, etc.). Pray with my wife for people in our lives and in thanksgiving. Ask for restful sleep.

Always be praying! :)

yibg8• 5 years ago

A bit of slight tangent. I’m an atheist, but sometimes I envy the communities religious groups build (e.g. church). One big advantage I’ve seen is some of my Christian friends can move cities and almost instantly have a community via the local church. They make friends, have a place to go on a regular basis and has a support network.

Anyone aware of anything similar but not based on religion?

cogman1013• 5 years ago

Unitarian universalist might be what you are after. They don't outright reject religion but they also don't really prescribe it.

There are also quite a few atheists in the community of christ, funnily enough :D.

yibg8• 5 years ago

Do you know if unitarian universalists have some sort of equivalent to church or church gatherings?

dragonwriter13• 5 years ago

Sunday Assembly is explicitly that.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sunday_Assembly

As I understand, Unitarian Universalist congregations are often this way, but can vary a lot.

anonymous532• 5 years ago

Entering my mind palace, which has no connections to reality, everything(including me) is perfectly still yet able to morph into anything.

KrishnaShripad2• 5 years ago

Follow Dvaita Vedanta (Tattvavada). Part of Sanatan Dharma/Hinduism and one of the schools of Vedanta. The process of learning though spans the entire lifetime. It is not a simple set of scriptures that you read and understand. It has multiple layers and takes decades to get a grasp of. Sometimes even more. The works of Shri Madhvacharya have influenced and changed my perception of Universe (Jagat/Srushti), Life (Aatma) and my relationship with God (Brahman). I don't find anything else that satisfactorily explains the Srushti, Aatma and Brahman as well as Tattvavada does. I am a seeker so I am always learning. The more you travel down this path, the more you learn/discover. It is a never-ending process.

throw12346512342• 5 years ago

Can you actually summarize the nature of the beliefs? All major religions/belief systems can be summarized in a sentence or two.

e.g. Buddhism - if you want things, you suffer, stop wanting things, said the prince who got bored with being rich and spoiled.

KrishnaShripad2• 5 years ago

I'll try to summarize it. It is not possible to combine it in couple of sentences so please excuse if I add some more.

"Dvaita Vedanta espouses 5 fold eternal differences between Brahman (God), Aatma (Soul/Self) and Jada (Non-living matter). Brahman is the only Independent entity - Omnipotent, Omniscient, Omnipresent, All Pervading, Eternal. Aatma is also Eternal but is always dependent on Brahman. Creation/Jada is real but temporary and will get destroyed and remade by Brahman forever[1]. All 3 are different from each other making the Prapancha (5 eternal differences). Moksha/Enlightenment/Liberation is attainment of maximum potential of Aatma resulting in permanent bliss with zero suffering (complete self-expression, self-manifestation and self-realization). All Aatmas have gradation/positions based on their Karma and go through Karmic cycle of birth and death of the bodies they inhabit. Few great Aatmas are eligible for Moksha ending their Karmic cycle of birth and death in material Creation."

I tried to fit the entire philosophy in as simple/brief words as possible. If you have more questions I will happily provide in depth answers.

[1] It is called Mahapralaya or the Great Dissolution and happens every 311.04 trillion years (or 100 Brahma Years) where everything goes back into singularity and gets recreated again through the Hiranyagarbha/Golden Womb/Big Bang.

sjfnjsdjfn2764• 5 years ago

Since the past year Christian, while having been atheist the rest of my life.

It's a long path and has required a lot of study, since I cannot internalize something without fully understanding the rationale and any pertaining evidence. Past the popular reductionist views of religion, there is a lot of ambiguity and depth, so it takes time. There are also many relevant philosophical/scientific questions worth researching (e.g. morality, the origin of "things", etc.).

msla2• 5 years ago

I don't have one. I've been atheist since about age 10, after having been raised United Church of Christ.

simmanian• 5 years ago

I practice Seon Buddhism but don't consider myself a religious person. To me, the essence of Buddhism is seeing the world with clarity. And when you see the world with clarity, you realize there's no reason to live life of greed, hatred, and suffering. I view that this is what Jesus preached as well.

I believe an increasing number of people in developed parts of the world are turning away from religious institutions because many of these institutions have stopped helping people live happily. I sincerely hope to see more people trying to re-discover the old teachings. For me, Buddhism was immensely eye-opening and it definitely gives me tons of inspirations.

pmarreck5• 5 years ago

I sporadically listen to a guided meditation apparently inspired by a Hindu mystic named Babaji; a while back I uploaded them here: https://soundcloud.com/peter-marreck-fb/sets/meditation

I've had two separate experiences from this meditation that I'd like to talk about, and I want to preface this by saying that I'm a very rational person (because some of my descriptions, as subjective as they were to me, may be off-putting to some). Generally speaking I find it very relaxing most of the time, so at minimum it gives me that. But about 1/4 of the time (and it would probably be more if I did it more consistently, I noticed that it happened more when I was doing it more consistently), I experience something subtle but definitely unique that I'd call a "thrumming" throughout my body, almost like an electrical sensation but more subtle and definitely not something I've sensed in any other context. I have no idea if it has a name due to other people experiencing it; the meditation itself tells you to look for a "rhythm that isn't your heartbeat" but this felt much higher-frequency than that would indicate. You know how when a limb "falls asleep" and then it gets flush with blood again and it feels tingly? Kind of like that, but more subtle, and in my whole body.

And yeah, I know how crazy that probably already just sounds. But one time it went way beyond that.

One time, something completely unique happened. I came out of the meditation and sensed immediately that something was different but I couldn't immediately identify what. So I did kind of an introspective inventory of my own psyche, and suddenly realized with some shock that all of my fear of death had vanished. And the thing I want to convey is this, because the words can't really describe this part: I realized that we ALL have an ever-present fear of death, even right this minute while you're reading this you do, it's just sitting there like background radiation and you don't notice it literally because it's always there. And I have to emphasize that even that was taken away from me (temporarily, for I'd say about 2-3 days), which is how I realized it even existed in the first place! And it wasn't like, you know, "ok, so it's cool if I suicided now", but if death "had to" happen to me, I wouldn't be afraid. At all.

This last experience was so jarring, honestly, that I've been a bit afraid (ironically!!) to repeat the meditation as consistently as I intended to. (And yet, so few people have a "real" experience like this, from meditation, to the best of my knowledge!)

Of course, speaking as a rational person, it FIGURES that it was entirely subjective and that I can't point to anything to show you that this was completely real to me. But it has certainly made me value people's claims of their subjective experiences more (albeit always with a grain of salt!)

devsatish• 5 years ago

Every morning after shower and just before the work starts or I go to work. I sit before the small temple (bookcase) in my home. Light a lamp and an incense; and a short prayer - sit in a mindfulness state - asking for blessings for all.

auntienomen• 5 years ago

Militant agnostic

SAI_Peregrinus• 5 years ago

I'm a Discordian. To me, that means a sort of pandeistic existentialist absurdism.

A (somewhat tongue-in-cheek) argument:

God is the greatest possible being. The universe is, by definition, everything that exists. Everything is greater than any subset of everything. Therefore God is must be the entirety of existence. God seems to have numerous mostly disconnected consciousnesses, but is mostly Hydrogen. There's no inherent meaning given by a bunch of Hydrogen. Therefore we tiny conscious bits of the universe have to make our own meaning. Assigning a singular consciousness to God would be utterly arbitrary and quite silly. Silly things are fun. Therefore God is also a woman, her name is Eris, nonsense is the source of salvation, and God is the universe and isn't any singular being.

I also quite like the ontological argument for atheism:

God is the greatest possible being. Completing a task with a bigger handicap is greater (more impressive) than completing it without that handicap. Not existing is the greatest possible handicap. Therefore God must be a being capable of creating the universe despite not existing.

Faith, to me, is a joke. It's a deliberate choice to believe in things one has no evidence for (at best) or knows are false (at worst). So why not treat religion as a joke, and humor as sacred? It makes as much sense as any other choice in the matter.

So I try to live each day with a bit of humor.

doopy1• 5 years ago

Hail Eris!

codr7• 5 years ago

It's complicated.

I believe there is something bigger than physical existence, and I find the fact that many don't worrying, because much of what's good about humans clearly come from somewhere else from what I can see.

My own accumulated experience from meditation, psychedelics & life/death situations says that whatever I am, I'm definitely not my body.

The challenge I've set before me is to be the best version of myself that I'm capable of, whatever that is at the moment.

Organized religion is a distraction at best.

dillondoyle• 5 years ago

This thread is surprising to me. Not just as a topic on HN, seems it will be a downvote upvote war lol.

---

This response was going to be in reply to ex-Mormon with PTSD but I broadened it to a new thread since this got long.

To answer OP, I do not have a religious or spiritual practice. Unless you call doing things I enjoy and trying to appreciate the moment spiritual.

To respond to the threads, I'm surprised by the number of comments saying religion, and in particular incorporating their children, is a regular routine for their family.

Though most not to the extreme of experience of the ex mormon HN er.

To me adults can believe and do whatever they want. If it makes them happy great. Makes them a better person even better.

So long as it doesn't encroach on others' autonomy and freedom. Especially children.

That often leads to children not having safe spaces or potentially being outright kicked out of their home.

The opposite of what a lot of religions preach.

Encroaching on freedom and autonomy of adults is increasingly happening too.

Potentially the most damaging is having multiple SCOTUS justices openly evangelizing their religious institutions and actively ruling to reshape our country based on their faith.

Damaging to women & gender especially.

Amy Coney Barrett to me is shocking in that she belonged to a super odd fringe group where she served as a literal handmaid (their term, to be fair though it's more like a leadership role).

An otherwise probably intelligent women leading an org preaching that “Women were homemakers; they were there to support their husbands,” one former member said in an interview. “My dad was the head of the household and the decision-maker.” wapo: https://archive.is/S1NSh

Does her husband decision-make her legal rulings?

BTW these strict and forced gender roles are also being forced and hurting with trans treatment bans and other gender identity discrimination.

Scalia is another example. So too was Barr. Oddly all catholics even though evangelicals hold more power and %.

I suggest reading Barr's speech to Notre Dame it was crazy to me. [2]

He specifically said he made decisions based on his interpretation of Catholicism. A bunch of the OG Trump pushers like Bannon are part of this weird Catholic group (example oddness: they built a militaristic monastery compound for 'gladiators' in italy)

They are open about their campaign to reshape the US into what they view as its origins, specifically governed Christianity (also implied white but that's another thread)

Barr said that this decreasing religious participation - specifically christianity - is the demise of rule of law, ethics, & what he considers the breaking up of families (divorce, or what I consider the autonomy not to be in relationships you don't want to be in, or are in danger with). Maybe allowing states to ban divorce is on the chopping block next.

That's scary to me. The people in charge of enforcing and shaping the law will tell you in a speech that they are making decisions guided by their religion, no matter what they tell the Senate that religion has nothing to do with it or that somehow they've never had an opinion on Roe...

Other examples abound in SCOTUS, look to religious schools. Ruling it's 'discrimination' & forcing state funding of religious schools which do actually discriminate in their written rules against for instance LGBTQ students and faculty (actively writing that they refuse them education, which goes against 70 years of SCOTUS rulings). Not to mention not having to actual teach things like you know, science.

[2] https://www.americanrhetoric.com/speeches/williambarrnotreda...

UncleOxidant• 5 years ago

Not day-to-day in this case, more week to week: I practice sabbath and I've been doing this for a couple of years now. I sabbath on Sundays. I don't work, try not to think about working and avoid engaging in economic activity. As I understand it, the original Jewish conception of sabbath (I'm not Jewish) was that it was resistance against empire and oppressive economic systems. It's like declaring that I am a human being and I have intrinsic worth that cannot be measured in money or things - kind of like going on strike for a day every week. I find it very restful (duh) and it actually helps me have a better attitude towards work the rest of the week (though I'm trying not to have a utilitarian reason to sabbath as that would be counter the spirit of sabbath, I think).

I think one of my misconceptions about sabbath before was that it was a passive thing. As I experience it, it's a very active thing, a different way of being one day per week. It's active opposition to the culture of 24/7 work that's becoming expected in many sectors.

launchiterate• 5 years ago

Heartfulness:

Morning meditation Evening cleaning Night prayer meditation Constant remembrance Sunday group meditation

alecbz6• 5 years ago

Not exactly an answer but I think I've definitely been in a kind of spiritual crisis for a lot of my late-twenties, maybe longer, ever since I stopped being Christian, and am struggling to find some kind of spiritual anchor.

To the extent I've developed any kind of spiritual mantra so far, it's something like: "focus on what you owe society". I think a lot of especially the West has become obsessed with seeking comfort and focusing on what society owes them, to the extent that we've erased or completely compartmentalized any sense of what our responsibilities to society are, and thus what our role is.

Man's Search for Meaning was a bit of a source of focus for something like this. Why Honor Matters was also an interesting read (authored by the co-host of my favorite podcast) along these lines. I wouldn't describe myself as a huge Jordan Peterson fan (haven't really read much of his work myself, when speaking I find he can be kinda incoherent/ramble-y), but I think he's a more well-known modern "prophet" of this "religion".

Anyway, all still very disorganized thoughts at this point, but I think starting to congeal to something over the past two years.

(Day-to-day I do meditate but I don't, at least yet, really view this as a spiritual thing as much as a helpful psychological tool/practice.)

sjtindell• 5 years ago

The philosophy of Alan Watts was to me completely life changing. Simple, powerful concepts, explained in a fun way. Concepts that give you a strong foundation for reality and your place in it, while allowing you to go about your daily life and find meaning.

mullingitover• 5 years ago

I occasionally take a moment to pause, reflect, and appreciate the luck that I have to exist, and the beauty of the universe. I try to use the pragmatic aspects of buddhism (the Eightfold Path is a very useful guidebook for a good life), although I'm not ideologically a full-blown buddhist.

gxt• 5 years ago

Natus sum anno 2745.

I like to think myself as urban, meaning anti-sectarian. Every sect is based on dogma, if we let those lead our lives again we're gonna be in for another thousand years of dark ages. I don't want to let this happen, now is my watch, it's my duty to prevent it.

My tools are logic and patience. Jupiter help me - ha!

But in all seriousness, everything we have is fragile. It could all be gone in an instant if we are not careful, if we don't strive to keep it, and grow it. Everything we have has brought us to this moment. We have almost all the tools to see into the universe and yet waste our time with petty fights, misunderstandings and shell ourselves in a cocoon of illusions and lies. We can do better. We have to do better. We exists, and yet we don't know the purpose of existence. We should focus on that, it's the common denominator of literally everything, it's not a hard sell once past the lies.

titusblair• 5 years ago

Hey this is a great question, I would love to add my day to day practice, I am currently a missionary in New Zealand (from the USA):

Preface: I was raised a Christian and even continued to go to church long after doubting and even reversing my beliefs in God. I then, later on in life, realized I had made a grievous error and my current life is a result of a path through Stoicism, Humanism and ultimately Hedonism. My story on how I came out of darkness into light is another one and feel free to email/message me if you want (www.titusblair.com)...

Now for the day-to-day bit:

After Waking Up:

I normally wake up in the morning and I am tempted to read email, read the web etc. My goal is always to read or listen to the Bible, particularly the Gospels (Matthew, Mark, Luke + Acts, John) and when I am successful at this my day tends to be better, more focused, less stress.

Before Breakfast:

A few years ago I took to hear Jesus words that He is the bread of life and decided to never eat until I read the Gospels with my family. I have found this to be a great time with family discussing topics of morality, nature of evil, heaven, hell, and most importantly the reason we are here on this planet.

After Breakfast:

My wife home schools our children and this is when I set out to go share the Good News of Jesus. Granted it's not an exact science since God is always working in my life and I never know who I will meet or what will happen but I have a mindset of "What will God have me do today?" and this is quite exciting for me.

I believe my core purpose as a missionary is to share the Good News of Jesus Christ to the world and do this through the LOVE demonstrated by God. I focus on the fact that Jesus was a real person and ultimately the issue boils down to did He rise from the dead or not, and this is where I try to focus my attention, on his death and resurrection and also his teachings and life.

So recently I have ran some Facebook ads to find those who are struggling or have needs or have friends who have needs. I have been able to go and help them through God's providence for me and my family and demonstrate God's love for them.

I do not require anything from the, for example attend a church, give money, give a commitment, etc. I simply extend to them the opportunity to learn about Jesus if they are interested.

My ultimate goal as missionary here in New Zealand is to share the love of God with everyone and that love is Jesus Christ, his life, his teaching, his death and ultimately his resurrection and eternal life and purpose for living on this planet.

I have a small home church where we focus on the model of the early church in Acts 2:42-47

"And they continued stedfastly in the apostles' doctrine and fellowship, and in breaking of bread, and in prayers.

And fear came upon every soul: and many wonders and signs were done by the apostles.

And all that believed were together, and had all things common;

And sold their possessions and goods, and parted them to all men, as every man had need.

And they, continuing daily with one accord in the temple, and breaking bread from house to house, did eat their meat with gladness and singleness of heart,

Praising God, and having favour with all the people. And the Lord added to the church daily such as should be saved."

The focus is to love others the way Jesus loved us, He gave everything so that we could be right with God in how we live and love, and He lived it out himself.

A part of "church" is after we finish we go out and show God's love to the local community. Whether thats through encouraging cards we hand out, gift cards to those working hard to take care of themselves and others or praying and singing and bringing joy and light to those around us. I have found this to be the most fulfilling thing I have ever done! I have had successful startups, mobile apps, etc. but nothing has been as amazing as focusing on the souls of people.

After going out and talking to people, serving people I will go back home and spend time with family as they finish home schooling. I will always feel like there is more I can do and more I can love others and this drives me for the next day. I consider my mission to extend a hand of love in those who are drowning in depression, darkness, and despair because I used to be there myself! Only when I looked to Jesus, grabbed His hand and He pulled me out then told me to go and do the same to others did I truly become whole and at peace.

At the end of the day I will try (many times without success lol) to listen to or watch the Gospels to be reminded of how amazing God is and I will also pray.

I hope this helps explain a bit about my day-to-day but I have found with God there is not exact day to day, only a struggle to love others more, to love and live like Jesus and when I do this I find it to be amazing, because then I find I walk closer to God and that is a journey I would hope everyone will take.

For those who have made comments about the "religion" of Christianity I would encourage you to take another look at Jesus. I find most I talk to have an issue with the "church/religion of Christianity" but few have issues with the life, teachings and sacrifice of Jesus. When people say they fell away from church/religion I simply ask "but why did you stop following Jesus" and I discover they never truly knew who Jesus was...

I want to conclude with telling you that from my own experience that God loves you, He showed you how to LIVE and LOVE in His Son Jesus Christ all you have to do is follow Jesus.

1 John 1:7 "But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin..."

God Bless You!

If you have any questions please feel free to email me at hello@titusblair.com

guidovranken• 5 years ago

Every morning before I open my first beer I read 3 spoopy greentexts of the shapeshifter variety.

mindcrime• 5 years ago

None, really. At least not in the sense of what people usually mean by "spiritual". That is, I don't pray to (or believe in) any gods or deities of any sort, or even believe in any actual thing called a "spirit". So that doesn't leave much room for spirituality.

The closest I come to any of this is something I like to do now and then which I suppose is a little bit like meditation. I'll put on some nice pleasant, non-distracting music which doesn't tend to make me think of anything in particular, close my eyes, and just try not to think about anything for a while, and immerse myself in just the sensation I'm feeling. But really, this is just away to kinda "clear my mind" and relax, I'm not sure I'd describe the experience as spiritual at all.

Beyond that, I do get something out of reading Zen Buddhist literature at times. But Zen, to me, is more of a philosophy and a way of thinking, than a religion. And I wouldn't say I'm an adherent or practitioner of Zen, it's just something I enjoy reading / thinking about sometimes.

cryptica• 5 years ago

I'm an atheist but I think that religion and religious values are a positive force for society.

The most spiritual experience I have is when I'm out in nature alone and I see something beautiful like a sunset over the sea. These moments make me feel connected to nature and to the past. I can imagine my ancestors seeing similar things since hundreds of thousands of years. It's comforting to know that some things don't change much.

Spirituality is the struggle to find something that's both meaningful and eternal. Nature's time scales aren't eternal but they're pretty large and easy for my simple atheist mind to conceptualize.

ashton314• 5 years ago

I’m a member of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. I pray multiple times a day—either to express gratitude or ask for strength to weather whatever struggles I’m facing. I also pray to ask for help and insight so I can do well at school and work. I exercise and try to eat healthily, because I believe my body is a gift from God. I cherish the time that I have with my family, because it is in my family that I feel the purest expression of God‘s love.

In my local congregation, I teach a biweekly class on family history. I love learning more about my ancestors! If you are ever curious to learn more about your heritage, I highly recommend checking out familysearch.org— it is an amazing program, and you do not have to be a member of the church to use it. I know several people who are not members of the Church of Jesus Christ who still like using familysearch.org because it is free and works very well.

fc373745• 5 years ago

Agnostic.

There could be a creator out there that never made itself known to us.

Also, my experiences with Sleep Paralysis makes me feel like something is out there.

I went from a devout Christian (7th day adventist) for 20 years of my life -> to atheist -> to agnostic.

aappleby3• 5 years ago

I am missing whatever the brain circuit is that makes you understand and believe in religions.

I can't even call myself atheist or agnostic, as that would require assuming that the statement "Is there a god?" is both coherent, meaningful, and answerable.

Imagine asking someone with aphantasia to visualize Donald Duck, and then asking them if Donald is wearing pants. What would you expect them to answer?

Thorentis3• 5 years ago

Can you explain further how your inability to imagine the existence or non existence of God, is similar to aphantasia?

aappleby3• 5 years ago

I can certainly understand religion in an external, objective sense much as you can understand the various interconnected storylines in something like the Marvel comics/movies, but as soon as you ask me "...but do you _believe_ it?", my brain just fails its saving throw versus comprehension and I can't give an answer based on what I "feel" is correct, because on that particular question I am unable to "feel" anything at all.

bidder33• 5 years ago

Raised Catholic, but never seriously and after high school the only churches i attended were for weddings and funerals. But at some point in my twenties i lost a close friend, had some weird experiences of suffering and bliss and acceptance. Then started reading all over the place to try understand my experiences. I found the tao to be very helpful, and thomas mertons writing also very helpful. I often come back to his writing on desert mystics to start the day. And I always allow myself the time to watch the sunlight glinting off the leaves of the trees outside my window.

ancode• 5 years ago

I am an atheist. My spiritual practice is being there for others in my life when they need someone.

lisper6• 5 years ago

I consider stargazing to be a spiritual practice. Looking for stars and planets and finding them exactly where science says they are supposed to be confirms by belief that we live in a world governed by laws, that these laws are knowable, and that we in fact do know them to a pretty reasonable degree of certainty and approximation. That makes me feel connected to the cosmos in a very deep way. I feel privileged to exist at a time and place where this is possible. I think it's pretty fucking awesome.

verisimilidude2• 5 years ago

Tetris. Twice per day.

When I get into a good Tetris routine, my mind will continue to play even when I'm not in front of the screen. There's just this constant background game playing in my head. This might sound distracting, but somehow it's enlightening. It provides rhythm. It provides structure. It keeps my thoughts in constant reorganization, constant renewal.

Overall, I believe Tetris gets my mind into a place and practice where I can more easily answer the following question.

What fits?

What fits into my life, and how? How do I fit into the world?

* My kids are important to me. How do I best fit them into my life? What's too much? What's too little? What do I need? What do they need? How can we best enjoy our time together?

* That friend is not a good influence anymore. The current fit is strained. How much of him is too much?

* This thing I'm doing at work is fun and I love it, but it's not advancing my goals. What fits, what can I keep? What should I discard?

* How will my actions fit into the interests of my family, friends, community?

In the past, in those dark pre-Tetris days, I tended to hang onto bad habits and bad ideas. Inertia is very strong with me. I credit Tetris-brain with helping me break through that inertia on a daily basis.

Soulful Tetris also has the advantage of being absurd enough that I never take it too seriously. Hubris is my biggest problem with organized religion. Tetris is kinda like a form of meditation for the 21st century, nothing more.

Also, it's just a really great game. And I like metaphysical excuses to play it.

geoduck148• 5 years ago

I'm scrolling and scrolling and scrolling. So many debates about atheism, Catholicism, Mormons. Deep theological discussions. Discussions on "how to answer the original question". And then I see

Tetris. Twice per day.

I applaud you in answering the question in a completely unexpected way. Never before in the history of theology has anyone introduced Teris AND kept it thematically appropriate.

avodonosov• 5 years ago

What implementation do you use? I use tetris in emacs, but it is scanning keyboad too infrequently, so at my game speed the level of control is insufficient.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J-ERbGvpVTw

verisimilidude2• 5 years ago

I stick to commercial options these days. Usually Tetris Effect. Tetris Effect represents the gold standard for what I want out of a Tetris game.

But I'll play anything that follows the Guideline.

https://tetris.wiki/Tetris_Guideline

platistocrates• 5 years ago

So you're saying you worship the God of Tetris?

https://youtu.be/Alw5hs0chj0

andrei_says_17• 5 years ago

When I posted the question I made sure to not mention religion because my curiosity was more about meditation/alignment with what’s important/practice in term of making sense of the bigger life questions.

This answer is perfect :)

gregfjohnson• 5 years ago

My goal: predispose myself to be receptive to the gift of inner transformation. I have four words that resonate these days: wise, thoughtful, mature, sane. As a Catholic Christian, I see a good deal of unwise, unthoughtful, immature, and insane Christianity, and also, albeit less vocally, a good deal of wise, thoughtful, mature, and sane Christianity. I have personally spent a disconcertingly large amount of time in the first of those places. I do see moments, perhaps even a bit more frequently theses days, of being in the second of those places. Best I can tell, Sturgeon's Law applies to religion just as it applies to everything else: "ninety percent of everything is crap." That being said, I am convinced that the other 10% of religion is rich, sublime, beautiful, and worthy. The first ultimately amounts to nothing, and the second everything. For my daily practice, I read the day's scripture passages from the Catholic Missal, and then do 20 minutes of centering prayer. The Trappist monk Thomas Keating's work is my main guide, along with Thomas Merton, James Finley, Richard Rohr, and Cynthia Bourgeault. Centering prayer is a simple practice of wordless receptive awareness of being in God's presence, and an openness to God's ongoing work within and without.

JSONderulo• 5 years ago

Truth is one, paths are many.

uxisnotui2• 5 years ago

Many responses here don't address OP's question about day-to-day practices.

My spiritual practice: meditation, journaling, breathwork. Occasionally, psychedelics with close friends in nature, which often starts out with a prompt regarding with we want to get out of the experience

jollybean2• 5 years ago

Going to Church and not necessarily paying attention to anything.

Or any other kind of 'Temple Service' for that matter.

Sneaking a peak at the men in the Mosque from the doorway, without knowing much about Islam, I was moved.

I've often visited Catholic Churches in Europe (I'm not Catholic), to take a set and contemplate a bit.

Much like the current comments about the Swiss photographer who sees Japan in a different light than they might, it sort of made me reflect on my on rather limited Church-going experience and mini-experiences of witnessing bits of ceremony of other religions.

I find intellectual people may be over analyzing a lot of issues, our egos lead us down one rabbit hole after the next and I feel we are missing the point.

'Going through the motions' can be a potent thing to help transcend that, because it doesn't involve focusing on the language or intellectual rhetoric directly.

In Buddhism they certainly have a lot of focus on 'transcending thought' which I think could equally apply to Abrahamic faith, but we get caught up a lot in the language and the 'applied rules' and it trips us up.

Just go into the Cathedral when there's no service and sit for a while.

meristohm• 5 years ago

Going outside and observing the hyperobject of all the other living things, imagining it as well, and looking up at the sky in hopes of seeing other suns.

nie100sowny2• 5 years ago

Traditional Catholic here. I go to the "Mass of all time" every Sunday. I pray and read the daily texts of the mass. From time to time, I recite the Holy Rosary (which I find a wonderful contemplation method). I examine my conscience and confess my sins regularly. I also like to listen to recordings about the Saints of the Catholic Church - unbelievable people.

I appreciate a lot the traditional Catholic doctrine. It's wonderful to see its resurrection and many young priests motivated to preach it in the opposition to the old protestantized Church leaders.

I have been considering myself just as deist until I've learned how amazing is a Catholic philosophy. Did you know, for example, that Saint Thomas Aquinas found a way to determine if the creation have soul (like humans) or not (like animals)? Including extraterrestrial life!

kukkeliskuu5• 5 years ago

I have been participating in a group for over ten years that studies the ideas of Gurdjieff.

It can be said to be spiritual, kind of a meta-religion. It is compatible with religions, and most participats practice something else as well.

From Gurdjieff my most important daily practice is "self-observation". I take on various aims to facilitate it. One example of such an aim could be "when walking, walk faster than normal". I try to meditate daily as well, but I am not so successful in that.

If you are interested, "In Search of the Miraculous" by Ouspensky is a good starting point.

davidw• 5 years ago

I would like to found some kind of cult with myself as the Dear Leader that everyone adores and sends lots of cash to, but I don't seem to have rolled that high a number in terms of charisma.

PicassoCTs• 5 years ago

Im 100 % atheist, but i found the jewish faith pretty fascinating. Its one of the few religions, that besides indoctrination - encourage a hacker mentality. One is praised for studying the books and finding "workaround" that allow to "hack" the religious framework without repercussions by the comunity. It has also managed to thrive, timelessly in alot of hostile circumstances.

In my mind, while all religion might be nonsense, this model applied to science is a winning team. If its a hacker mentality though, then i guess this site will have to do as a spiritual practice. It spins fertilizer from thin air and sun, it has electrically charged stones from the dessert reciting prayers and preventing a world with billions from collapse.

That must be enough for spirituality.

zelon88• 5 years ago

I usually start out by reading the "Just for Today" meditation at [1] which changes daily. Then I read [2] and spend a couple minutes contemplating how the 12 JFTs apply to the day I'm going to have. Then I usually spend a few minutes planning my day.

[1] https://www.jftna.org/jft/

[2] https://emotionsanonymous.org/eai-literature/ea-program-basi...

I am an atheist bus as a recovering alcoholic I've found that having a spiritual routine to be very beneficial. It helps me stay honest with myself and identify thoughts and feelings that I would otherwise have no visibility into.

evon2• 5 years ago

The Way

da39a3ee• 5 years ago

I am over 40 and ever since I was 10 or so it has been my opinion that spiritual belief, though giving rise to some positive social activities, is a childish delusion of adults and mental abuse of their children.

firebaze• 5 years ago

If there are depressing threads on HN, this is the "best" of them to me.

anotheraccount9• 5 years ago

Gratitude.

swat535• 5 years ago

As an Atheist, I recently started reading religious texts of all Abrahamic religions(Judaism , Islam and Christianity) as well as Dharmic ones such as Buddhism. Why? Because I have always been curious about religion yet always discarded it as "bronze age superstition" as Christopher Hitchens would describe it..

Thanks to this journey, I ended up meeting a lot of great people in the community. Without exception, everyone welcomed me as an outsider and politely answered all my questions. I have been to mosques, synagogues and churches during hours of prayers and other events to observe and learn and so my network has grown by a decent size which I'm grateful of.

I think overall the result has been a net positive in my life and has broadened my understanding of history, philosophy and art. I haven't necessarily "settled" in a particular camp but I no longer brush off the idea of worshiping a God. I think one can make the distinction between _radical_ religious dogma and having a holy house of worship.

Having done lots of introspection over the past year, I don't think subscribing to Atheism is healthy because in your happiest moments or your darkest moments of despair, you have no spiritual basis to fall back on, you have no way structure way of burying the dead or celebrating the joining of a couple in a ceremonial way. Further, all Atheists still celebrate Christmas, or Easter , all of which are religious holidays and are completely meaningless to them which is ironic..

As an Atheist you also have to make up your "subjective" morality (and who is to say one's sense of moral is superior to another? there are no basis for this) which is again ironically borrowed from religious teachings. Finally Atheism fails to answer the deepest questions we have which is Why is there something instead or nothing and why are we here?

Thus considering the above, I can confidently say that my views on spiritually and religion has shifted significantly.

bluepoint• 5 years ago

I read math to focus and relax. In my opinion this is spiritual as it gives me calm.

markus_zhang• 5 years ago

Sitting in the vehicle and listen to keygen music.

giardini• 5 years ago

Well this "Ask HN" shows HN is as full of madness as any Mensa meeting.

tympious• 5 years ago

"Somewhere between pantheism and panentheism"?

stjohnswarts2• 5 years ago

None. Maybe humanism and secularism combined can be called a spiritual system? I mean I like to think of a higher purpose in being a good human, and your influence can live on down through generations by the works you do as a good human. Most of us won't ever be great humans, but we can all be good humans. I think modern takes on “spiritualism” are bogus and likely no better than what has come before considering the overwhelming failure of organized religions to better the human condition.

mvkel• 5 years ago

I was a staunch atheist until very recently, when I asked myself the question: isn’t atheism about being -sure- that there is no higher power? How can anyone be sure? Isn’t it arrogant to think that?

So I’d say I’m now agnostic — I simply don’t know.

rramadass• 5 years ago

Study Philosophy but don't follow any Religion.

Philosophical ideas set forth in "Hinduism" (a umbrella term for a whole host of thoughts/ideas/beliefs/worldviews from a particular geographical area), Buddhism and Ancient "Hellenistic" Greece are the ones worth studying because they provide a "rational" approach to "Living" your Life. Interpreting and Adapting them in the light of "Modern Science" is where the challenge lies.

dfrey1• 5 years ago

I'm a religious Jew. My day starts at 6 with a half-hour of Talmud study, then I have prayers for 40 minutes, followed by 10 minutes of reciting Psalms and another 30 minutes of Talmud study.

In the middle of my day, I pray for 15 minutes, and at night, I pray for another 15 minutes. I also try to end my day with a few more minutes of Jewish study

jeffrallen2• 5 years ago

Mindfulness, gratitude, and empathy (with others when I'm managing well, with myself when I fail my expectations for myself). I also try to listen to the messages from the world... sometimes, your angels are trying to protect you from a mistake, and if you choose to stop and listen to them, things go better.

I raise my children in a Christian church because that's what worked for me to learn/grow/nuture my own spiritual practice. As they mature and increasingly question religion, I will become more explicit with them explaining the importance of a personal understanding of spirituality.

mcjkrw• 5 years ago

Zen. I do the "shikantaza" version of it every day in a 40 min session (20 min sitting, 20 min walking - yeah I know shikantaza means "to sit" or something related). It's a very intense type of zazen meant to gain a very clear perception of your body and surroundings. When I first learned about it, the example was that the engagement is not unlike engagement you would have if you engaged into a swords battle to death. That you cannot slip and need to be super duper alert. There are many elements that come into it actually and it's all well described in a book "3 Pillars of Zen".

I have noticed that the intense focus does me much better than calmer types of zazen like counting breaths. I'm only intense during formal practice, but in daily activities I just try to relax and focus on the task at hand - nevertheless, if it was not for the daily practice of the intense version, I would not be nowhere near as alert when I'm more relaxed.

The combination of formal practice (40 min of shikantaza) and the right attitude (to engage well into every task, no matter how menial) did wonders to my wellbeing and quality of life. It is a powerful tool for change and a great way to practice spirituality.

anarticle2• 5 years ago

I am Thelemic. I recite an affirmation to manifest my will in this world. I believe that every day reveals my self-realization. I perform self-aware meditation to force myself to be honest.

It's not too different from many other forms of introspective study.

baconator123• 5 years ago

I am reared as a catholic and i believe in the golden rule "Do unto others as you would have them do unto you"

leafario2• 5 years ago

I don't think a god of something exists. If it does, I don't care. It might, though.

What's more important to me: life emerged from chaos, entropy will get us all, let's give this opportunity all we've got. If we don't, it's fine too - there is no game plan I am aware of so we can make our own.

JensRantil• 5 years ago

I practice secular spiritualism[1] through Buddhist-inspired meditation[2].

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Secular_spirituality [2] https://beta.tergar.org/courses/intro-to-meditation/

mrxmod1• 5 years ago

try and just be, be present, be aware, be real, be here, be in the now

mbfg7• 5 years ago

none. I try to only believe in things that are demonstrable.

michaelsbradley• 5 years ago

The great value we ought to set on Spiritual Things

"I wished," says the Wise Man, "and there was given me sense; I asked it of God, and there came upon me the spirit of wisdom; and I preferred her before thrones and royal sceptres; and I made no account of riches in comparison therewith, nor of precious stones; for all gold in comparison with her is as a little sand, and silver shall be counted as clay before her." (Wisdom 7:7-9). The true wisdom on which we ought to set our eyes is perfection, which consists in union with God by love, according to the saying of the Apostle St. Paul: "Above all I commend to you charity, which is the bond of perfection" (Colossians 3:14), and joins and unites us with God. Now the esteem which Solomon says here he had of wisdom, we ought to have of perfection and of all that makes thereto. In comparison with that, all should appear to us as a little sand, a little clay and ordure, as the same apostle said: "I count all things as ordure and refuse in view of gaining Christ." (Philippians 3:8). This is a main means for gaining perfection: at the rate in which that esteem grows in our hearts, at the same rate will our perfection grow... The reason is, because such as is the value that we set upon a thing, such is the desire that we have of obtaining it: for the will is a blind power and follows what the understanding dictates and proposes to it; and according to the esteem and value that the understanding sets on a thing, so also is the will and desire to obtain it. And as the will is queen, and commands all the other powers and energies of the soul, as well interior as exterior, it follows that according to the will and desire that we have of a thing, will be our contriving and taking means thereto, and our efforts to obtain it. Thus it is very important to have a great esteem and appreciation of spiritual things and of what appertains to our spiritual progress, that so the will and desire of them may be great, and great also our effort to procure and gain them, for in all these things like goes with like.

A dealer in precious stones has need to know and form a right estimate of their value, under pain of being deceived, for in default of such knowledge and such estimate he will exchange and sell a stone of great value for a thing of very little worth. Our trade is in precious stones and pearls. "The kingdom of heaven is like unto a merchant seeking precious stones." (cf. Matthew 13:45). We are merchants of the kingdom of heaven: we must know and form a right estimate of the price and value of the merchandise in which we deal, that we be not deceived, changing gold for clay, and heaven for earth, which would be a huge mistake. And so says the prophet Jeremy: "Let not the wise man glory in his wisdom, nor the strong man in his strength, nor the rich man in his riches; but let him that glorieth glory in this, in knowing and understanding me." (cf. Jeremiah 9:23-24). This is the greatest of all treasures, knowing and loving and serving God, and this is the greatest business we can have on hand, or rather, we have no other business than this, for this we were created... this is our end, our terminus and our glory.

– Fr. Rodriguez, Practice of Perfection and Christian Virtues, First Treatise, Chapter 1 (1609; Rickaby's translation 1929)

https://archive.org/details/PPCV-Manresa/page/n27/mode/2up

https://archive.org/details/PPCV-Loyola/page/n23/mode/2up

advael• 5 years ago

Some kinda non-conformist witchcraft I suppose. I quickly bucked the religion that got forced on me as a child, an easy journey - I'd like to think because abrahamic cosmology is plainly nonsensical, but more realistically I likely fell off because it was quite authoritarian and being told what to do makes me bristle in any context. I would have mostly self-described as an atheist for most of my childhood, and still am from a pure epistemic/cosmological standpoint, but I both started to balk at the hidebound tendency of many people and groups who use that label to trust and privilege established institutional implementations of empirical epistemology more than I think they deserve (And being in academia and following the big cross-disciplinary replication crisis in 2014 contributed in a big way to shifting my thinking more in that direction), and felt a lack of fulfillment in what I think is a pretty close to universal human need for ritual and a diminished vocabulary for explaining intuitions from those circles, so I've become interested in various practices many would consider "magical" or "spiritual" or "pagan" or dismiss as "woo" depending on who they are. I wouldn't call myself religious, I don't really go in for attempts to organize this kind of practice under stuff like "wicca" or "heathenry", but I do rituals for my own psychological purposes that friends in "atheist" circles would probably roll their eyes at, and am more comfortable offering explanations for phenomena (especially related to psychology, metacognition, interpersonal matters, information/decision/game theory, computer science, and linux system administration) that sound/signal/codeswitch more "witchy" than "scientific" than I was previously

mceldeen• 5 years ago

I practice a non-denominational version of Christianity that embraces a dispensational viewpoint. I regularly read from pretty much all parts of the Bible. However, the core of my reading involves reading 3 chapters a day: one from Romans-Galatians, one from Ephesians-Colossians, and one from Thessalonians on a constant loop. This is the foundation upon which I add readings from other parts of the Bible. I’ve been bringing in Genesis as of late. Most days, my wife and I do this together out loud. This practice is very grounding. I notice that it helps with my ADHD. I find it easier to organize my thoughts. I also find that I’m more patient with people in general.

Spoiled_toast• 5 years ago

I wake up every morning and pray to god that my job goes smoothly and I do it well. As almost every job in food service, these almost never overlap.

All joking aside I am a Christian, Lutheran sect, and I just go with the flow. God might judge you but not me.

polarbeer• 5 years ago

None. NEXT!

Ask HN: What is your spiritual practice?

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