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rramadass

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===== The Problem: Realism vs. Idealism =====

“Do you know, I sometimes catch myself wishing that I, too, were blind to the facts of life and only knew its fancies and illusions. They’re wrong, all wrong, of course, and contrary to reason; but in the face of them my reason tells me, wrong and most wrong, that to dream and live illusions gives greater delight. And after all, delight is the wage for living. Without delight, living is a worthless act. To labour at living and be unpaid is worse than to be dead. He who delights the most lives the most, and your dreams and unrealities are less disturbing to you and more gratifying than are my facts to me.”

He shook his head slowly, pondering.

“I often doubt, I often doubt, the worthwhileness of reason. Dreams must be more substantial and satisfying. Emotional delight is more filling and lasting than intellectual delight; and, besides, you pay for your moments of intellectual delight by having the blues. Emotional delight is followed by no more than jaded senses which speedily recuperate. I envy you, I envy you.”

He stopped abruptly, and then on his lips formed one of his strange quizzical smiles, as he added:

“It’s from my brain I envy you, take notice, and not from my heart. My reason dictates it. The envy is an intellectual product. I am like a sober man looking upon drunken men, and, greatly weary, wishing he, too, were drunk.”

“Or like a wise man looking upon fools and wishing he, too, were a fool,” I laughed.

“Quite so,” he said. “You are a blessed, bankrupt pair of fools. You have no facts in your pocketbook.”

“Yet we spend as freely as you,” was Maud Brewster’s contribution.

“More freely, because it costs you nothing.”

“And because we draw upon eternity,” she retorted.

“Whether you do or think you do, it’s the same thing. You spend what you haven’t got, and in return you get greater value from spending what you haven’t got than I get from spending what I have got, and what I have sweated to get.”

-- Wolf Larsen from The Sea-Wolf by Jack London.

===== The Solution: Egoless engagement with every moment =====

One should become aware of one’s deluded notion in which one thinks that "I belong to these objects of the world and my life depends upon them. I cannot live without them and they cannot exist without me, either" [here objects can be anything that the mind latches onto i.e. animate/inanimate/thoughts/memories/etc.]. Then by profound enquiry, one contemplates "I do not belong to these objects, nor do these objects belong to me" [i.e. the difference between the experiencer, the object experienced and the experience itself]. Thus abandoning the ego-sense through intense contemplation, one should playfully engage oneself in the [everyday] actions that happen naturally [whether due to environment or self-initiated], but with the heart and mind ever cool and tranquil. Such an abandonment of the ego-sense and the conditioning is known as the contemplative egolessness.

Live in the present, with your consciousness externalized momentarily [i.e. egolessly immersed in the activity for however short/long a time period] but without any effort [i.e. without fixating on the outcome]; when the mind stops linking itself to the past and to the future, it becomes no-­mind. If from moment to moment your mind dwells [only] on what is and drops it effortlessly at once [before moving on to something else], the mind becomes no-­mind, full of purity.

They who, though remaining established in equilibrium, do not let their organs function naturally as long as the body is alive, are obstinate and stubborn people. As long as there is sesame there is oil; as long as there is the body, there are the different moods also. He who rebels against the states that the body is naturally subject to, cuts space to pieces with a sword [i.e. a futile and foolish endeavour]. The equilibrium of yoga is for the mind, not for the organs of action and their states. As long as the body lasts, one should let the organs of action perform their proper function [naturally; without desire/intent/volition], though the intellect and the senses remain in a state of equanimity. Such is the law of nature, to which even the gods are subject.

-- The Yoga Vasistha translated by Swami Venkatesananda.

=====

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Mind Training in Daily Life: Nothing Special

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Assuming you are serious; there is a lot to know conceptually before one can answer the above comprehensively.

Start with Set Theory, Propositional/Predicate Calculus, Hoare Triples, Dijkstra's wp-calculus and Predicate Transformers, then move on to Lambda Calculus, Type Systems (inductive/dependent/function etc.), Curry-Howard Correspondence, Invariants/Verification Conditions/Theorems etc. all leading up to "How the hell do they all come together in a Theorem Prover?"

Some simple tutorials;

Introduction to Lean for Programmers: The syntax and semantics of mathematics - https://towardsdatascience.com/introduction-to-lean-for-prog...

The hitchhiker's guide to reading Lean 4 theorems - https://blog.lambdaclass.com/the-hitchhikers-guide-to-readin...

What are you talking about?

That phrase does not occur in the paper linked to in (3) above (i.e. "Cognitive Biases in Software Engineering: A Systematic Mapping Study") at all.

The Abstract itself states;

One source of software project challenges and failures is the systematic errors introduced by human cognitive biases. Although extensively explored in cognitive psychology, investigations concerning cognitive biases have only recently gained popularity in software engineering research. This paper therefore systematically maps, aggregates and synthesizes the literature on cognitive biases in software engineering to generate a comprehensive body of knowledge, understand state of the art research and provide guidelines for future research and practise. Focusing on bias antecedents, effects and mitigation techniques, we identified 65 articles (published between 1990 and 2016), which investigate 37 cognitive biases. Despite strong and increasing interest, the results reveal a scarcity of research on mitigation techniques and poor theoretical foundations in understanding and interpreting cognitive biases. Although bias-related research has generated many new insights in the software engineering community, specific bias mitigation techniques are still needed for software professionals to overcome the deleterious effects of cognitive biases on their work.

I just put in your query (i.e. "Bourbaki was founded ..., young university instructors were forced to use dated texts") into Google AI Mode to explain with references/links/citations which it did reasonably well. The main points are;

1) It was in late 19th century/early 20th century that the german (and other european) mathematicians (Hilbert et al.) revolutionized rigour in the teaching of mathematics with the establishment of definition/theorem/proof (DTP) "new math" style which we understand today as the norm.

2) WWI (1914-1918) wiped out over half the french mathematicians from the various top french mathematical training academies. This was the "lost generation" creating a demographic gap of mathematicians who were trained in the new style above.

3) Thus in mid-1930s you had only a small group of young french mathematicians (Cartan, Weil etc.) who were exposed to the rigorous style now pushed into professorship positions. However their previous generation being lost in the war meant most books were from 19th century written using the "old style math" (i.e. less rigorous). Eg. Standard french university textbooks on Calculus/Analysis were by Edouard Goursat rooted in old 19th century concepts. Hence they are frustrated and start writing books under the Bourbaki name to reestablish french mathematics rigorously.

So a generational crisis (i.e. loss in war) happens when mathematics undergoes a fundamental shift. This leads to books becoming outdated. Young french mathematicians inspired by german abstract school set about unifying all of mathematics using the new rigorous style in terms of various abstract mathematical structures.

You are absolutely right.

It is just some daydreaming verbiage trying to connect totally disparate domains in a fanciful manner; nonsense and drivel.

As I continue reading An Introduction to Parallel Programming, I cannot help but notice a connection between communication among processors, communication among human beings, and communication within the individual self.

I say ... Whut?

Some additional resources that i dug up;

1) Wayne Aitken from California State University has a 52-page Bourbaki, Theory of Sets, Chapter I, Description of Formal Mathematics: Summary and Commentary - https://public.csusm.edu/aitken_html/

This is a commentary in the sense that I sometimes give explicit comments, but also more subtly by my choices in changing terminology, phrasing, notation, or proof in an effort to clarify Bourbaki for myself and a modern reader. So to get the full Bourbaki experience, the reader should read this document alongside Bourbaki’s original. But if the reader just wants a good sense of what is in Bourbaki this document is reasonably complete. So this document can potentially be of service to two classes of readers: (1) readers of Bourbaki’s original first chapter who want to benefit from extra commentary and some indication on how the approach looks from a more modern point of view, and (2) readers who, without necessarily reading Bourbaki’s chapter, want to get a feel for Bourbaki’s approach, but from a more modern point of view.

2) The Ignorance of Bourbaki by A.R.D.Mathias - https://www.researchgate.net/publication/226448759_The_ignor...

3) Further Remarks on Bourbaki by A.R.D.Mathias - https://www.scribd.com/document/645181972/A-R-D-MATHIAS-Furt...

Nice.

Another interesting article; The Mathematical Pranksters behind Nicolas Bourbaki - https://daily.jstor.org/the-mathematical-pranksters-behind-n...

And of course wikipedia; Nicolas Bourbaki - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nicolas_Bourbaki

Anybody here actually browsed/read/studied the Bourbaki books? How approachable are they and what is the easiest one to start with?

Any expository/explanatory/commentary/annotation of the texts for the mathematically inclined layman?

Do not post on HN if the goals/rules/project are not be questioned.

Who said they cannot be questioned? But the author/submitter is not obligated to anticipate/satisfy/answer any of your questions/assumptions/etc. Something is posted on its own terms and you take it or leave it with/without criticism. Everything is volitional.

In this context this recent cnn article "‘Whataboutism’ makes the internet exhausting. Why people think this way" (Bean Soup Theory) is very relevant - https://edition.cnn.com/2026/07/16/health/bean-soup-theory-s...

If your approach to assess something is only by learning about the person, and not by what they did or said then you need to know about me as well. But you came to conclusions without knowing about me, which violates your own principle.

Learning about a person behind some work is one factor but not the only factor. In this case it was relevant since the author is both a AI researcher and a Sanskrit scholar and so the motivations/goals are easily inferred.

If you want people to know about you (presumably w.r.t. to your scholarship in this domain) then you should have something in your profile instead of being anonymous and/or made it explicit in your comment. In its absence, people can't imagine things.

Using talking points like "bhajan forum", "person-worshipping", "andh-bhakt cult" etc. is simply you projecting your assumptions/biases and nothing more. Pointing to a person's background has to do with establishing domain expertise and technical credentials.

You can post any comment you want but so can others on your comment whether you like it or not. People can dismiss you the way you dismiss others.

Interesting article.

For a good overview background of "bioenergetics" (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bioenergetics) see Guy Brown's The Energy of Life: The Science of What Makes Our Minds and Bodies Work. A review at http://www.trnmag.com/Bookshelf/The%20Energy%20of%20Life.htm...

My own interest in bioenergetics came from studying Yoga/Ayurveda/Qigong/Acupuncture techniques, trying to understand their models of human physiology/anatomy and mapping them onto modern biological science.

Today with lifestyle diseases plaguing everybody i.e. "you feel drained of energy (both mental and physical) without being sick with something" it is even more important that we study our energetic pathways holistically for prophylactic health.

The frontend accepts Sanskrit and other Indic Language scripts but not made for English and hence your result; GIGO principle.

I tried out the Gayathri Manthra (a simple test) using Sanskrit, Tamil and English scripts and as expected, the first two render fine but not the last.

People seem to be making all sorts of assumptions/conjectures about the project and confusing themselves without reading the paper explaining the project (linked to in the site itself);

From the introduction;

Classical Sanskrit recitation, parāyaṇa, is a chanted rather than a read register. A faithful synthesizer must hold long vowels, sustain a terminal visarga, articulate retroflex and aspirated consonants, render dense consonant conjuncts cleanly, and respect the metrical structure of the verse.

None of these is well served by general-purpose text-to-speech, and there is essentially no chant-domain training data available off the shelf. The problem is therefore doubly hard: it is low-resource, and the target prosody is a specialized melodic contour rather than ordinary read speech.

This report describes a system, Vāgdhenu, that solves the practical version of this problem well enough to ship two large deployments, and it documents the design decisions, the dead ends, and the one negative result that turned out to be the most useful finding. We do not claim a new model. We claim an honest account of what it takes to build a faithful Sanskrit chant pipeline on top of current open backbones, what works, and what is architecturally out of reach.

Our framing is that of an experience report. The evidence we offer is the comparative lineage across architecture families, a reproducible production system, two shipped artifacts at real scale, and a public release of code, weights, data, and a live demonstration. Formal listening studies are limited to expert evaluation, which we state plainly and treat as a limitation rather than a result.

You do need to know about a person to understand why he did a project that he did. What were his motivations and goals? That is the point here which can be inferred from his bio/talks.

His goals need not be what you want them to be; his project; his rules.

Nobody is claiming this is something earth-shattering; just that it is an interesting project on a difficult subject matter. The author has linked to the paper for the project on the site itself which you can read for your edification.

From the introduction;

Classical Sanskrit recitation, parāyaṇa, is a chanted rather than a read register. A faithful synthesizer must hold long vowels, sustain a terminal visarga, articulate retroflex and aspirated consonants, render dense consonant conjuncts cleanly, and respect the metrical structure of the verse.

None of these is well served by general-purpose text-to-speech, and there is essentially no chant-domain training data available off the shelf. The problem is therefore doubly hard: it is low-resource, and the target prosody is a specialized melodic contour rather than ordinary read speech.

This report describes a system, Vāgdhenu, that solves the practical version of this problem well enough to ship two large deployments, and it documents the design decisions, the dead ends, and the one negative result that turned out to be the most useful finding. We do not claim a new model. We claim an honest account of what it takes to build a faithful Sanskrit chant pipeline on top of current open backbones, what works, and what is architecturally out of reach.

Our framing is that of an experience report. The evidence we offer is the comparative lineage across architecture families, a reproducible production system, two shipped artifacts at real scale, and a public release of code, weights, data, and a live demonstration. Formal listening studies are limited to expert evaluation, which we state plainly and treat as a limitation rather than a result.

As a practical example; if you have ever heard even the common Gayathri Mantra being chanted by a Tamil Thanjavur Brahmin priest vs. a UP Allahabad Brahmin priest you would know the wide difference in utterances. Having something like this gives you a reference (albeit with a South Indian Kannada bent) to compare against.

Yours is a very shortsighted and myopic view on the importance of using modern technology in order to maintain/enhance/propagate ancient cultural/linguistic knowledge which is losing its appeal in the "common populace".

This is another tool to help correct that balance.

The author seems a pretty knowledgeable person - https://prathosh.in/

His talk "The Non-negotiability of Shastra-s in Modern Science" - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i5Tp4gdQiTM

In this context, this former discussion thread is also relevant;

Words for the Heart: A treasury of emotions from classical India (book review) - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43249766

Bhartrihari is a notoriously difficult philosopher, and scholars are still puzzling over what exactly his work means. But perhaps radically oversimplified, here are a few things he suggests. First: wholes are always more real than the parts that comprise them. The whole comes first, and parts exist always and only as conceptual divisions within a pre-existing, coherent whole. Second: these divisions are always linguistic. It is language that carves up experience. But importantly, when language carves up experience, it is not, as some Buddhists thought, simply the superimposition of an artificial, conceptual filter onto a non-conceptual reality. Instead, Bhartrihari tells us, ordinary language is a crystallization of something already implicit in reality. Reality itself is fundamentally linguistic, and what we think of as language—ordinary language, with its words and conceptual divisions—is just a devolution or fragmentation of this more primordial linguistic totality. This is precisely why, for Bhartrihari, the ultimate reality is shabdabrahman, a linguistic absolute. So this is a strong form of idealism: things in our experience, and all things in existence, are fundamentally linguistic. We have no access to anything outside of language and therefore no reason to assume that there is, or ever was, anything separate from it.

Note-1: Does the above explain why many people perceive LLMs to be "conscious"?

Note-2: The effectiveness of Mathematics (when considered as a language in itself) to explain the "real world" also seems related here.

See also the book; The Word and the World: India's Contribution to the Study of Language by Bimal Krishna Matilal - https://archive.org/details/wordandtheworldindiascontributio...

You need to stop playing the "woe betide me" muslim victimhood political card here on every possible occasion. It is tiresome, easily disproved, often irrelevant and adds no value whatsoever.

Anybody who knew of A.H.Dani from the 1940s would have known of Firoze Khan from 2019 and so there could be no reason to bring up the former unless of course one wanted to intentionally manufacture a controversy.

This thread should have been focused purely on the Sanskrit language in all its forms but instead you have tried to inject sectarian and political agenda into it.

And I was talking about what happened to Ahmad Hasan Dani this time.

And I pointed out that you were again being dishonest with your selective quoting - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=48930068

PS: As for our previous interactions which i pointed to, you did not provide citations but merely selective quoting which i had forcefully called out. People can read the chain of comments and judge for themselves.

The answer is not settled;

Language complexity - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Language_complexity

Evidence reveals that the language of thought is not natural language - https://medicalxpress.com/news/2026-07-evidence-reveals-lang...

Complexity trade-offs and equi-complexity in natural languages: a meta-analysis - https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC10234276/

Language as a mechanism for reasoning about possibilities - https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC9620752/

David Packard (of HP fame) gave a talk on this very topic in 1960 which is still relevant today;

Speech by Dave Packard to HP Managers March 8, 1960 - https://gizmodo.com/the-hp-way-how-bill-hewlett-and-i-built-...

Relevant Excerpt:

Over the years we have developed the policy that it is important for the supervisor to thoroughly know and understand the work of his group. A debate on this has been carried on by management people for years. Some say you can be a good manager without having the slightest idea of what you are trying to manage, that the techniques of management are all important. There are many organizations which work that way. I don't argue that the job can't be done that way but I do argue strongly that the best job can be done when the manager or supervisor has a real and genuine understanding of his group's work. I don't see how a person can even understand what proper standards are and what performance is required unless he does understand in some detail the very specific nature of the work he is trying to supervise. We have held closely to this philosophy and we intend to continue to do so. We expect you who are supervising to learn techniques of supervision and keep up to date. I want to emphasize you can supervise best when you know a great deal about the work you are supervising and when you know the techniques of supervision as well.

Yes, there is still a need to learn to write code by hand.

Maybe not to the detailed nitty-gritty level in a computer language that was needed pre-LLM era but nevertheless still a must.

In this context, it is good to revisit the practices from early days of programming where "System Analysts" and "System Designers" provided detailed specifications to "Programmers" who translated it into computer code. The key point to understand here is that the specifications were detailed i.e they were code just in a non-machine executable form.

So detailed Specifications followed by Verification is mandatory. Understanding the code implementation in-between has lesser need but still important.

See also my previous comment chains from here - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=48800484

Contains three parts;

1) Nothing Special about Ourselves or Our Feelings - https://studybuddhism.com/en/tibetan-buddhism/mind-training/...

2) Addiction to Social Networks and Text Messaging - https://studybuddhism.com/en/tibetan-buddhism/mind-training/...

3) The Eight Worldly Concerns and Conceptual Framework - https://studybuddhism.com/en/tibetan-buddhism/mind-training/...

"Mind Training" is nothing otherworldly but merely exercises to modify/change one's attitudes and perspectives. The reason for such changes can be just to maintain equanimity when going through the everyday vicissitudes of life both good and bad.

A highly practical discipline and training which is especially needed today given all that is currently going on in the world.

Lojong (Tibetan Mind Training) - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lojong

Mind Training: The Great Collection translated by Thupten Jinpa - https://wisdomexperience.org/product/mind-training/ The comprehensive and definitive collection of lojong texts.

Essential Mind Training translated with introductions by Thupten Jinpa - https://wisdomexperience.org/product/essential-mind-training... A subset of the works from the above larger book. Read/buy this one first since it categorizes and introduces each topic before the actual texts themselves.