SteamOS

http://store.steampowered.com/livingroom/SteamOS/

by kmfrk • 13 years ago

1436 513 13 years ago

store.steampowered.com

edu• 13 years ago

Looks great! I'm really looking forward to see the fist SteamOS device.

rodedwards• 13 years ago

"SteamOS will be available soon as a free download for users" - you can build your own device!

pekk8• 13 years ago

You can run Steam on Ubuntu today, if that's what it comes down to. This is for manufacturers.

phren0logy• 13 years ago

Is it based on an existing distro?

siphr5• 13 years ago

Does not say.

L8D• 13 years ago

It's either OpenSUSE or Ubuntu based.

jjcm• 13 years ago

Most likely ubuntu as that seems to be their defacto test platform. If you download steam from their site it comes packaged in a .deb format. They have pretty significant investments in that stack, and even list it as their favorite flavor:

"Not running Linux yet? Ubuntu is our favorite version of Linux."

(at the bottom of this page: http://store.steampowered.com/about/)

siphr5• 13 years ago

Likely, but of course just a speculation at this point.

rocky11385• 13 years ago

Likely, but do you have a source for that?

sixdimensional2• 13 years ago

Open ecosystem (Linux, hardware) + gaming = well done Valve, sounds good, I like it!

antsar3• 13 years ago

Not open source, however. Not a dealbreaker, but an important distinction to keep in mind.

sixdimensional2• 13 years ago

Very true!

NotOscarWilde3• 13 years ago

Personally, I'm fine with Steam remaining closed-source, as this is both inevitable because of it being both a store and a DRM provider.

The key question here is whether Valve's future extensions to the graphics subsystems (which seem to be advertised, to some extent) will be released as open-source and be admitted to the (free software) kernel and libraries that exist today.

Arelius• 13 years ago

Do we know it's not open source? Or are you talking specifically about steam and the games?

marcosdumay4• 13 years ago

My opinion, for a long time now, is that I'm just mildly anoyed that my games are not open source. It's not an important enough problem to do something about it.

Yeah, I really care about my software being open source. The most important a piece of softawre is, the more I care about it. Games just aren't that important. They are nice to have, and losing them is a disconfort, but won't have any practical effect on my life. So I don't care that much about them.

That said, because they are not open source there are security problems that must be dealt with. But, even if they were open source, if I really cared about securing my LAN, I wouldn't trust them. Not much of a change.

stonemetal2• 13 years ago

Users can alter or replace any part of the software

Sounds open source to me, or did you mean the games?

This press release isn't targeted at technical people so the jargon isn't there to definitively say one way or the other.

bjorg• 13 years ago

That's one hell of a smart idea if they can pull it off. As an OS, it can run on a VM or dedicated hardware, which gives us users the greatest flexibility. Well played!

minimaxir• 13 years ago

So the Streaming functionality will be in both SteamOS and the normal Steam client? For both PC and Mac?

There might be a few interesting ways to utilize that. :)

xal3• 13 years ago

I really hope that this will be seamless. I would love to keep a beefy windows PC in the basement as a headless machine to run windows only games from and stream them to TV or Macs from there.

errnoh4• 13 years ago

Yeah, I see the streaming functionality as almost bigger announcement than the OS.

It's quite possible that one could stream into any other machine including tablets, laptops and even phones. This would enable playing your full Steam library from anywhere with decent enough connection (on both sides), especially games where input lag is not that big issue.

xSwag2• 13 years ago

Oh my god. This provides a genuine chance for year of the linux desktop in 2014, for gamers at least.

saraid2163• 13 years ago

Gaming is one of the last legitimate refuges of Windows dominance. There are a lot of us who wouldn't care about (read: would be willing to switch) their OS if not for PC gaming.

Heliosmaster• 13 years ago

Or people that dual boot and keep Windows around just to game.

pathy• 13 years ago

Gaming is one of the last legitimate refuges of Windows dominance.

What about pretty much all larger businesses in the world? Windows sure dominate the corporate space.

mikevm3• 13 years ago

Also MS Office, Adobe Photoshop and a bunch of other Windows-only or Mac-only tools.

MLR2• 13 years ago

You say a lot, what you really mean is <5% of PC users, that's a high end estimate.

Al-Khwarizmi• 13 years ago

Some years ago I was about to switch my home PC from the terrible Windows Vista to Linux, and the only thing that prevented me from doing so was Team Fortress 2.

Now TF2 runs on Linux, and the perspectives for Linux gaming are very good in general, but I no longer want to switch because I am happy with Windows 7, I hate Unity and Gnome 3 and their dumbed-down UIs that make me want to bang my head against the wall, XFCE is OK but feels like going ten years back in time, and KDE 4... well, that one is not too bad, but I still prefer Windows 7.

It's a pity that all this Linux gaming surge didn't happen back in 2008 or so, when Windows was in its lowest moments with Vista and most Linux distros hadn't yet been ruined by overbearing UI visionaries. I'm sure that desktop Linux market share would have soared in that case.

anentropic• 13 years ago

Isn't this specifically not a desktop system?

sandyarmstrong• 13 years ago

I assume he is implying that games coming to SteamOS should be able to run on any desktop linux that supports the Steam client.

aroman2• 13 years ago

Yes but it's virtually the same core software stack as on the desktop. So the linux distros get a huge leg up in that arena.

willvarfar• 13 years ago

Well they'd have to work real hard to stop people running everything else on it...

stonemetal2• 13 years ago

Depends on what you mean. It is specifically designed to be a "living room" OS, like steam's big picture mode not a desktop system. So yeah not a traditional desktop experience.

Nothing in the release said steam only or no desktop, and they call out the ability to create content on the platform specifically Users can alter or replace any part of the software or hardware they want. Gamers are empowered to join in the creation of the games they love. Rather sounds like what they are doing is going to be open source and allow non games to run. Even if they don't ship with KDE or Gnome by default it should be possible to get something up and running.

nilkn• 13 years ago

It does seem that way, but if it's possible to run SteamOS on some sort of custom Linux box, if not a normal Linux PC, for me at least that would be good enough (that way you can enjoy the latest graphics hardware, which is the main draw of PC gaming along with mods).

pippy3• 13 years ago

I am incredibly excited for this. This may well push Linux into the hands of everyday people.

alisnic• 13 years ago

The biggest benefit as I see it, is that the users won't have the hassle of setting something up: just install the OS and login. No drivers ppa, no recovery console, no xorg.conf patches. If this is true, Valve will do something very big for the gaming community.

dzddd• 13 years ago

I don't believe that they'll even focus on users installing the OS, just like 99% of Windows users don't install their own OS. Valve will provide the reference SteamBox and encourage other manufacturers to release their own SteamOS-preinstalled boxes, giving users hardware options.

Mikeb8517• 13 years ago

This is the end goal - but for the time being, it does seem aimed at tinkerers - the kind of people who already have a PC hooked up as an HTPC...

dpacmittal• 13 years ago

I think it's going to be more like what Google did with Android.

antsar3• 13 years ago

If only it were open source... This is great nonetheless, though. It'll be interesting to see what directions this takes off in, both in terms of hardware and software.

theschwa• 13 years ago

"In SteamOS, we have achieved significant performance increases in graphics processing, and we’re now targeting audio performance and reductions in input latency at the operating system level."

I'm really interested to see the trickle down effect that this will have on other Linux flavors. Having a push for standardization from a big name company like Valve should provide a better Linux experience for everyone.

TazeTSchnitzel4• 13 years ago

Valve are working on improving Linux debugging tools too, which is great for developers.

mikevm3• 13 years ago

What performance increases in graphics processing are they talking about?

I'm with you thought, I do hope all of their work will be landed in mainline kernel so everyone could enjoy the benefits, and we could play games (through Steam or other methods) on most Linux distros, without much hassle.

ZeroGravitas5• 13 years ago

Phoronix has several articles about the work that Valve has done with Linux GPU drivers (open source and proprietary)

http://www.phoronix.com/vr.php?view=17823

That one is about how valve themselves got value out of debugging on open source GPU drivers.

qznc• 13 years ago

This is the Valve blog port about that:

http://blogs.valvesoftware.com/linux/faster-zombies/

Eyes2design• 13 years ago

The end is near! windows should shake in its tiny boots

leoc• 13 years ago

I'm not sure if you're serious or not, but I am. Steam has already started to offer non-game applications. If SteamOS gets a large enough installed base and provides a good-enough platform for desktop/couch-side apps other than games then things could get interesting.

EDIT: Of course, it would help if Valve had someone in charge with a record of success in desktop app platforms. Well http://www.computerandvideogames.com/172835/interviews/creat... fancy that.

Apocryphon3• 13 years ago

What is it they say that caused Blu-ray to beat HD DVD? Gamers and porn.

zerohm• 13 years ago

Yep. Windows 8 isn't very popular amongst gamers. Also, remember Steam in 2003? It wasn't great, but Valve stuck with it and kept making it iterativly better. Also, nowadays most people can get their day to day functionality out of web apps if need be.

siphr5• 13 years ago

The idea itself is not novel as such. Just like every other company the difficulty is having to disassociate yourself from Windows. As it stands the store relies heavily on Windows titles. The real feat would be if they managed to get the whole catalog across to SteamOS by under the hood cross compatibility layer.

rocky11385• 13 years ago

It would be an amazing boon to Linux and gaming on Linux if Valve bought (or heavily funded + added resources to) Crossover/WINE.

siphr5• 13 years ago

Exactly what is going through my mind :)

skriticos23• 13 years ago

That's not going to happen any time soon. Wine is in active development by very talented people all the time and they get a lot of the latest AAA stuff running, but generally there are so many corner cases that it would be a support nightmare and financial suicide to attempt this as generic service. Plus they'd probably get some brain-dead software patent lawsuits.

speeder2• 13 years ago

wOOOOOOOOOO!!!

If that works on normal machines (like, my laptop), I will kick Windows for good finally!

toblender2• 13 years ago

Yeah I hear you, I thought that this announcement would hurt M$oft stock, but I guess Valve isn't on the radar at all in the mind of investors.

xentronium3• 13 years ago

I'm somewhat disappointed. While perfectly logical for Valve, it might end up being not very beneficial for other distributions. In worst case scenario, hardware manufacturers cherry pick specific devices ("steambox") and software ecosystem to support (SteamOS) while totally neglecting all other linux distributions.

NotOscarWilde3• 13 years ago

My thoughts exactly. Currently, gaming on Linux was fairly on the rise, since Steam supported Linux as one target platform and advertised it fairly substantially. If Steam renames all "Linux" entries as "SteamOS" and pushes general Linux to the sidelines, all that progress is lost.

jcastro• 13 years ago

"Linux" isn't a platform, "SteamOS" is though.

Having an undefined "general Linux" is impossible for them to support, especially since there's no real definition of a platform, just a kernel.

venomsnake6• 13 years ago

Doubt it - most of the benefits - like sane drivers, optimizations and so on will trickle down.

And I think steam box will be set of requirements.

xentronium3• 13 years ago

I hope you're right and we won't end up with even more incoherent binary blob dumps than we have now.

chii3• 13 years ago

why would, say nvidia or AMD contribute their driver improvements upstream, especially if there isn't anything in it for them? unless there is some GPL clause requiring it of course.

pekk8• 13 years ago

Valve cannot magically produce a homogeneous experience across all Linux distributions. They need some degree of consistency in the environment in order for users to have a reasonable experience. It isn't their job to prop up every two-bit distribution.

Mikeb8517• 13 years ago

Well, just perusing through the files in my computer's home/.steam folder, it seems as though the binaries are packaged with all required dependencies, so as long as the Steam client works, the games should work on any Linux distro.

jeltz2• 13 years ago

Most games currently at Steam have no problems running at almost any modern Linux distro.

hnha2• 13 years ago

not just hardware, it might also lead to game developers forcing people to use steam to get/play their games which otherwise would have been free.

methodin• 13 years ago

Even if that ends up being the case it should open the door for a competitor down the road with data and facts to get backing for their Linux-based system/distribution. This can be a big step in the right direction, regardless of how well this current iteration plays out.

aryastark2• 13 years ago

Nothing new. Commercial software has targeted "Red Hat" since the '90s, forcing the entire Linux world to deal with RPMs and whatever nonsense Red Hat was doing at the time.

lelandbatey3• 13 years ago

Really, I'm more optimistic. It seems like SteamOS is just going to be a tuned distro, but marketed towards publishers and studios as a new platform. The "new platform" part makes it easier for Valve to get AAA titles on board, but I doubt Valve has the manpower or the desire to make an entirely new (incompatible) fork that damages the potential to distribute games on other platforms.

Basically, I think it's a sly way to get studios and publishers to start developing for Linux.

gillianseed3• 13 years ago

Steam as it stands is officially focused on Ubuntu but I can run it on Arch without problem thanks to the work done by the Arch package maintainers.

SteamOS obviously differs since it's (by the sound of it) a whole distribution.

But I don't see why I wouldn't be able to continue using the Steam client just as I do now to play Steam games, the SteamOS is from what I understand the equivalent of a streamlined distro for Steam gaming, likely with optimizations for Steambox hardware configurations.

As an end user the choice is mine, use this streamlined distro for Steam gaming, or continue to use the Steam client from my distro of choice. I don't see the problem?

StevenXC• 13 years ago

The rumors of a Steam Box based on Linux have been circulating for a while now, but earlier Valve came out to say they had no plans to enter the hardware business.

I love this solution. Those of us comfortable with building our own Steam Box can do so easily, and manufacturers can also build their own models. In every case, the Steam store will certainly be sewn into the very fabric of the box, and Valve emerges a big winner.

This is what I've been waiting for to build an HTPC/PC gaming battlestation... I've (personally) always preferred gaming with a controller while sitting on a couch.

bluepnume• 13 years ago

Valve, at one point, came out to say they had no plans to support linux.

Now they don't just support linux, they're using it to stage a mini coup against microsoft.

Glyptodon2• 13 years ago

The streaming of other OS games from your other OS systems seems like a pretty compelling and surprising feature. I wonder if it will work with all games.

errnoh4• 13 years ago

Can't see a reason why it wouldn't.

Main reason seems to be that while SteamOS can only handle games that have Linux support the streaming allows you to have "HTPC" SteamOS connected to TV and play anything that Windows machine would be able to play.

Of course there's the input lag etc which might be an issue in some FPS games etc (which they mention that they're trying to "reduce in operating system level")

xhrpost• 13 years ago

It's implied that it will. I wonder if this is basically like having your own mini OnLive cloud deployment.

Glyptodon2• 13 years ago

I was more curious as to whether it might present licensing issues.

redthrowaway2• 13 years ago

I can't see how they'd manage to get twitch games like online FPSes to be playable with the addition of another layer of latency between the player and the game. A 100ms delay between input and response is death for games like that.

stormbrew3• 13 years ago

If you have 100ms latency on your LAN you have some serious problems.

IsTom• 13 years ago

Latency on local network is at most a few ms most of the time. If they can squeeze input/output on 100 Mbps ethernet without much delay it should be good.

venomsnake6• 13 years ago

Online FPS haven't been twitch based since the times of Quake 3 and Painkiller. Because they had local lan. And CRT monitors able to deliver 120 FPS. The moment online gaming moved to hosted servers and TFT ... well I still find them too slow even with 50ms ping.

jim-greer• 13 years ago

The biggest source of latency on the LAN would be encoding the video on the PC. If you're doing that in software it's going to suck for twitch games.

Luc• 13 years ago

Google 'Gaikai'. It's a 'good enough' playing experience even when streaming from an internet server (though the server needs to be local to keep latency in check). Streaming over the LAN should be very acceptable.

kllrnohj2• 13 years ago

Input latency is going to be <1ms. The payload is tiny and will fit in a single packet, and if your LAN's latency is more than 1ms your LAN is bad and you should feel bad.

Audio & Video, on the other hand, is more interesting. Let's assume everything is running at 60fps. Your encoder is therefore not adding any more than 16ms (if it was more, it wouldn't be keeping up and therefore not doing 60fps - it could definitely be less, though). Blu-ray is 48mbit/s, but for 24fps (youtube 's 1080p is ~8mbit for comparison). Let's take that same 48mbit/s, but adjust for 60fps instead. 1 frame would therefore be 0.8 mbit, or 100KB. If your network can do 48mbit/s, your video latency would therefore be 16ms. If your network is faster, though, the latency drops proportionally. Even a cell phone can do 100mbit/s on wifi, which would be 8ms of latency. A gigabit network would transfer that 0.8mbit needed in about a millisecond.

So your total latency of input, encoding, and transmission of the frame would be 32ms at most, and if you have a fast network & computer it could actually be down in the 5ms or less range.

rkalla11• 13 years ago

This is effectively the software-only equivalent of a console launch.

Is anyone else skeptical that they can motivate publishers to spend time/money porting their games to the Linux platform?

Valve certainly has a better chance than most at pulling this off (and likely enough user/market data to make this seem like a valid investment) I am still super skeptical that these publishers are going to spend the time porting their AAA releases to this platform.

A good chunk of the console games barely make it to PC/Windows as it is, let alone a PC/Linux platform... seems like a tough sell.

If the goal is an entertainment OS with streaming and DVR capabilities in addition to the few Linux compatible games on Steam, that's a bit different of a story but not a huge commercial win I don't think (unless they having some amazing partnerships planned with Netflix/Amazon/Vudu/Hulu for streaming that I am not thinking of).

If the goal is to make Steam into an entertainment platform (not just games) it is interesting to watch all these platforms converge on this "entertainment delivery pipeline" solution.

bigdubs2• 13 years ago

Unity has made good strides in making developers think about linux as a viable target for development (and streamlining the process).

I'd say there is hope. Especially as most (and I'm guessing here) PC revenue comes from Steam anyway.

devx3• 13 years ago

There were some rumors about Crytek and Unreal guys wanting to support Linux, too. With these latest announcements, I'm sure they will now, if they weren't going to do it before.

jakethehuman• 13 years ago

Exactly. And why not put the players and developers on the same platform? It's a match made in heaven!

Moving toward an upstreaming, open-source, GNU/Linux platform means that not only do they have more fine-tuned control of everything, but also that there are _many_ more sets of eyes and hands to find/fix problems and to help contribute to the gaming and Linux ecosystem as a whole.

After seeing nVidia's CEO making his keynote for a new line of video cards on a Ubuntu powered laptop[1], I have no doubt that there are many companies other than Valve that see the great potential in this.

[1]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8kIQWWJs_po

jaredmcateer3• 13 years ago

The announcement page claims all 3000 titles are available via streaming, similar to the OnLive service but only for your internal network, I'm guessing. Effectively working around the porting issue.

estel2• 13 years ago

The streaming works if you have a beefy Windows machine in your house already, it's not a solution for people wanting a dedicated "Steam" console.

MrMember• 13 years ago

It seems to work like the nVidia Shield's streaming. Another computer on your home network handles the heavy lifting and streams the video output to your SteamOS box.

DigitalJack• 13 years ago

I don't know if they are going to attempt something like onlive, but this streaming is on your local lan from your Windows or Mac box.

corresation2• 13 years ago

http://store.steampowered.com/search/?os=linux

Valve has been planning this for a while, and has had pretty good success motivating a lot of smaller publishers to target Linux, even though the base isn't there yet, and of course have moved their own incredibly valuable games to Linux. Major game engines (Unreal 3D, Unity, among others) already support Linux as an equal target.

rkalla11• 13 years ago

Dennis, maybe you are right... this is a long-game and they are just getting ahead of the inevitable (engines supporting Linux natively, eventually more and more releases for the platform).

I suppose this is the curse of the first-mover, it always seems to be risky/nonsensical until it isn't... then we all see it as an obvious move in hindsight ;)

matthew-wegner2• 13 years ago

Valve has three announcements this week: http://kotaku.com/looks-like-well-hear-about-valves-new-hard...

One of the announcements is widely believe to be the long-rumored Steam Box hardware...

ketralnis• 13 years ago

Why would they announce the software separately from its #1 use case?

esw• 13 years ago

Yeah, but you know that we'll only get two announcements and the third will be delayed indefinitely.

skriticos23• 13 years ago

From the iconography on the main page I'd guess the second announcement will be Steam hardware and the third one will be Half Life 3 (second circle indicates software product again?). Pure speculation on my side here.

http://store.steampowered.com/livingroom/

ZeroGravitas5• 13 years ago

The controller is the most interesting hardware component, the rest can improve over time much more easily.

machbio• 13 years ago

Steam OS needs to be on the Public Domain like an Opensource Project..Which it will most likely be..

In addition to that the Hardware should also be opensourced, like how to build the most optimal gaming console to work on Steam OS...

But It will all come down to the gaming pad, how the gaming pad will be designed and how it will integrate with build your own systems

devx3• 13 years ago

If I were them I'd make Half Life 3, Portal 3 and whatever next versions they have of their own games, exclusive to their own Steambox, at least first months or so.

They might not get as much money on the games themselves initially, but they'd make so much more on the hardware (they don't need to all Blu-ray and all the extra crap, so they could be profitable on it), and it would also be a great way to seed their console into the market, so developers target it.

twidlit2• 13 years ago

1. Steam

2. Steambox

3a. some VR peripheral (looks like a VR goggle/headset to me)

3b. some special cross-play between Steambox and Windows/Mac/Linux

3c. cross play between steambox and PS4

Robadob• 13 years ago

A large part of it may be covered by this functionality; "You can play all your Windows and Mac games on your SteamOS machine, too. Just turn on your existing computer and run Steam as you always have - then your SteamOS machine can stream those games over your home network straight to your TV!"

sbarre2• 13 years ago

Exactly. Gigabit ethernet in the home (or really fast wireless) should make this pretty feasible even with twitch-based action games (we can hope!)

xentronium3• 13 years ago

It's a dual-edged sword, as being able to stream windows titles doesn't give much incentive for game devs to fully support linux, does it?

xal3• 13 years ago

It's not a tough sell. Valve can offer a massively higher cut then Sony and Microsoft will do.

jsnell• 13 years ago

Well, there is some teasing along those lines there:

Watch for announcements in the coming weeks about all the AAA titles coming natively to SteamOS in 2014.

But more importantly, control of Steam gives Valve a lot of leverage in this. It's easy to see the reasons for Linux support in indie games. But harder to see why mid-tier developers like Paradox or Eugen started to port their latest games to Linux. It's a good bet that some kind of a Steam-related carrot was involved there.

rkalla11• 13 years ago

Juho, great call-out with the "Steam-related carrot", I hadn't really thought down that path but you are absolutely right. Valve could easily offer big discounts in their split with the publishers for the first few years for Linux sales.

My (possibly very incorrect) assumption was that the profit from the Linux sales were so low as to not matter, but maybe they can provide a catalog-wide carrot... something more significant (as you suggested) to motivate the publisher en-masse.

criley22• 13 years ago

Remember:

The PS4 and Xbox1 both are literally built on top of DirectX11, meaning that games for next-gen consoles (read: AAA) will be DirectX by DEFAULT but will certainly not be OpenGL by default.

And OpenGL is a requirement for Linux support of these games.

How Valve is strong arming manufacturers into writing the graphics code for their games in BOTH frameworks is beyond me. I'm not sure the major engines out there support both either.

But Microsoft won a massive coup this generation with all consoles being Win7 developer kits + Visual Studio 2012 + DirectX 11.

With Microsoft providing the major tools for AAA-games, it's going to be harder going forward, not easier, for the Linux proponents to make their case and win.

jayd16• 13 years ago

I suppose they could plug the hole a little including a dalvik vm and get android games running too. In theory they would be able to get a large amount of games working and kill the OUYA. I'm not sure that's in the best interest of the Steam store unless they plan to start selling android games.

Mikeb8517• 13 years ago

I hope not. Dalvik is terrible (a legacy of Android's roots in circa 2004 Java-mobile land), I'd rather see native games, and then maybe that can help Ubuntu Phone and Sailfish OS take off on mobile...

ZeroGravitas5• 13 years ago

Some of the Valve documents explicitly sell the porting to Linux/OpenGL process as a stepping stone to mobile. And given their talk of breaking pointless silos I can imagine a steam store on Android that can play any Steam game you've got the horsepower for.

pekk8• 13 years ago

Any console has its own platform to target. When that platform happens to be Linux-based, this magically becomes an onerous and unlikely requirement.

This has nothing to do with Linux and everything to do with who wants to target Steam's pet platform (vs Xbox pet platform, etc.) Comparing this to Windows is nonsensical.

kbruner• 13 years ago

Any developer has an addressable market to target. I don't think we really care what the OS is (Win,Xbox,PS4,iOS,whatever). If there is a market opportunity, we pounce. There simply has not been a Linux market opportunity that has inspired any real business. Will SteamOS change that? Time will tell....

nightski• 13 years ago

There are a good chunk of games that barely make it to the consoles... (or just simply never do). I think it is much more rare to not make it to PC/Windows.

A hunch I have is that developers are unwilling to target linux because of its diversity. By providing SteamOS they are providing a stable target for developers to release games against instead of trying to support all Linux distros.

rkalla11• 13 years ago

Sure, but I would argue that one AAA title is worth the entirety of those games that aren't ever making it off of the PC as far as sales go (thinking from a publishers POV).

Absolutely agree with you on the unifying effect of SteamOS being a single target for devs; that by itself, as you are pointing out, will drive more development for the platform. Gives everyone a target to aim at.

kaolinite2• 13 years ago

Tonnes of AAA titles are 'available' on FreeBSD - the PS3. Publishers won't be bringing their games to Linux, they'll be bringing them to SteamOS.

berdario• 13 years ago

Except that the PS3 has a dedicated SDK... Up until now Steam has instead allowed games made with any technology AFAIK

that means, among others, Python (Analogue: a Hate Story) and Mono (Bastion)

As long as they let developers have freedom over their tools of choice, I don't think we risk any embrace/extend/extinguish outcome

zurn• 13 years ago

Has there ever been any confirmation for the "PS3 runs FreeBSD" rumor? I've just seen FreeBSD mentioned on Sony's page listing open source components, along with stuff like expat and freetype. They've probably just lifted some bits from FreeBSD.

snotrockets4• 13 years ago

PS3 runs FreeBSD likes Android runs Linux.

That is, they may share a kernel and some tools, but the user spaces are mostly alien.

makmanalp• 13 years ago

The interesting thing is that convincing AAA publishers to port merely requires them to think it'd be profitable.

20 years ago, if someone asked to raise a quarter of a billion into a video game, they'd be laughed out of the building. Now it happens often. Over the years, increasingly big-budget games got funded and created.

So, all they need to do is to replicate a similar process. First you move all the indie games and source engine games to linux to "bootstrap" your market. Maybe make them free or a few bucks. Once you have a paying userbase from that, you show financials to bigger fish in an attempt to draw them in. Lather, rinse, repeat.

Even better is the fact that publishers love "free money" that doesn't require them to gamble. A port of an already successful game is much less risky than a new game. And (conditions permitting, like engine support) it costs a very small amount compared to the actual budget. So they can work on smaller margins to still turn a healthy profit.

bsimpson2• 13 years ago

I believe Humble Bundle has a partnership with a consultancy that will take care of porting a game to other platforms to enable their Mac/Linux/Windows value proposition. Valve could probably do something similar (though I imagine it's a lot more work to port a AAA game than an indie platformer).

trycatch• 13 years ago

Total production costs of the famous Atari's E.T. (1982) were $125M according to Wikipedia. It's more than $300M in 2013 dollars.

gcb02• 13 years ago

Not so simple nowadays.

Games are not fire and forget anymore. Now it's all about downloadable content and In-Game-Currency (which is basically a way to allow gambling legally)

Just being profitable initially doesn't mean jack. I think everyone learned that from the emails from Jobs and the Printing industry (and what i'd give to read the ones with the music industry...)

visualphoenix4• 13 years ago

It's far more trivial to port now that PC and Next-Gen consoles are all X86.

hamburglar2• 13 years ago

I'm skeptical that they can convince regular people to put PC hardware in their living rooms. Microsoft and manufacturers made a ton of effort in this direction last decade, and it wasn't half bad: Windows Media Center was a pretty decent user interface for TV-watching, and lots of "living room PC" form factors popped up (remember the ubiquitous Shuttle case?). But nobody cares. It was just too weird and clunky for the average consumer to put OEM PC hardware in his AV stack. Hard core geeks will do it, but that's not a big enough audience. Maybe that's changed enough to make this work, but I kind of doubt it.

bsimpson2• 13 years ago

AppleTV sells reasonably well, and GoogleTV would probably be thriving right now if the major networks didn't discriminate against its UA. I don't follow gaming that closely, but I believe most of the consoles released since the Dreamcast use a variant of the PowerPC chip that used to power Apple's computers.

Silicon is silicon; it's the UI that makes a difference. People have been paying money to have gaming systems in their homes since the 80s, and entertainment-center computers have been popular since TiVo in the 00s.

Moreover, these manufacturers are all working on "smart TVs," which is what has been keeping GoogleTV alive in spite of the entertainment industry's hostility towards it. With the right UI and licensing, I could see an LG or a Samung (or a Vizio for that matter) releasing a SteamOS-powered TV.

jhaywood• 13 years ago

Microsoft had trouble getting people to run Windows in their living room. They had no trouble getting millions to put PC hardware in their living room as evidenced by the XBOX.

jaegerpicker• 13 years ago

This is alot closer to an xbox than a pc. Value just doing it via slightly different (and smarter) process. This is still aimed squarely at the gaming market it's just a bigger pass at it.

xmonkee• 13 years ago

Consider all the PC-only titles. It's safe to assume that many of them make the vast majority of their sales via Steam. If steam promises massive takeup of SteamOS, then it's in their best interests to make them available for it.

From the demand angle, lots of games are console only because they fear piracy on PC versions. But if all these console users are offered a cheap new platform they can use just as easily as their consoles, it's safe to say that many of the users who buy a steambox would start buying games on it too. Console gamers aren't going to suddenly turn into torrent junkies because they wouldn't need to. This would make the PC platform profitable again. And if they start pricing games cheaper, like Steam games are liable to be, piracy would go down even further. Lots of indie PC titles are making money after-all.

Overall, I think once it hits a critical mass it would be a fantastic idea for all parties involved.

DocG2• 13 years ago

In-home Streaming seems to be backwards compility answer.

This means they don't start with empty plate like Android for example.

To keep cheap rig in living room for stream playing and media center, does not seem to be so bad idea. Most gaming will happen still whereever main rig is, but when you have friends over, you can just move to living room. And knowing steam(compared to others), I think it will be decently out of the box working thing.

Anyway, I support linux gaming, I would love to ditch windows at last.

XorNot• 13 years ago

I'd love to see Linux get 1st class graphics driver support from vendors. I pay as much for my Radeon card as anyone else, but the fglrx drivers STILL don't support X composite.

But other then gaming I never boot into Windows these days anyway.

kayoone• 13 years ago

it all depends on how many people will use SteamOS. Costs of porting games to other platforms will also go down with the next generation as xbox one and ps4 are basically standard PCs.

baldfat3• 13 years ago

"porting their AAA releases to this platform"

Play Station 4 is running a modified a Free BSD 9.0 on x86 architecture. So the work to go from a BSD base to Linux I imagine is MUCH easier than what it has been in the past in my opinion.

rkalla11• 13 years ago

Actually an excellent point; just dug up some info, didn't realize Orbis was based on FreeBSD. Would absolutely agree that for both the engine companies (Unreal, Crytek, Unity, Frostbite, etc.) since they are already going to FreeBSD, being able to target SteamOS as a secondary platform with minimal effort would be huge. Then hopefully abstract that effort away from the publishers as much as possible so if Capcom/Microsoft/EA/Activision decide to go SOS, it is minimal work.

math0ne• 13 years ago

I think the point is that AAA titles are at a low time low of market share. Indie titles could carry this platform by itself.

rkalla11• 13 years ago

I hate commenting in extremes, but I am willing to bet a large volume of the blood in my body that this is false and the platform would be a total failure if this was their only play (indie games).

One GTA 5, for example, is equivalent to the sales produced by every indie game, combined, multiple times over. Even Minecraft with some $30-40mil is a miniscule fraction of what GTA 5 did opening _day_ and will eventually do in its lifetime.

Definitely chose extremes here, but I imagine the equation looks the same with any other AAA title compared to the entirety of indie titles combined.

ascendantlogic• 13 years ago

I see Steam's long tail being more on the Indie side of things, giving the little guys a way to monetize their hard work without needing huge budgets. As long as they come along for the ride I think the platform can be grown organically. That said, Valve's own AAA titles alone will be good for the platform, so if they can get a handful of other major players on board I think it can be very compelling.

jsz0• 13 years ago

Aren't games pretty damn portable these days? It seems like most non-firsty party titles are all multi-platform now. I don't know anything about game development but they must be developing with portability in mind.

suby3• 13 years ago

Almost every major engine out there (ie: IdTech, Unreal Engine, Unity, Frostbite) is cross platform off the shelf.

rkalla11• 13 years ago

As suby mentioned, off-the-shelf I think these engines support multiple platforms, but it is surprising (to me) how many big, non-1st-party games don't make it across all the platforms in a timely fashion. That signals to me that it isn't as easy as we might think.

hadem• 13 years ago

Isn't part of the reason there are not a lot of developers working with Linux because there isn't near as big of a demand from the Linux community? This, if it becomes a popular option, it would/could increase that demand.

deelowe• 13 years ago

With the streaming support, I'm assuming you'll get immediate access to everything that's playable on your PC. It's not a perfect solution, but certainly helps with the adoption issue.

gavanwoolery• 13 years ago

Ultimately, what other choice does Valve have? Every single other company is coming out with its own "App Store" - few are exclusive at this point, but the tide might turn that way (already I believe Microsoft and Apple have taken steps that have made it more difficult for Steam).

That said, OpenGL is an increasingly relevant player due to WebGL, mobile devices, Apple's growing market share, etc. It is also possible to simultaneously target OpenGL and DirectX with things like ANGLE. If your game is written in OpenGL, it is relatively easy to port to different operating systems, assuming you don't rely heavily on platform-specific libraries (and if you already support Mac, it is typically even easier to port to other *nix-based platforms). If the XBox One is OGL capable (via its Windows layer), porting could get even easier.

To top it off, I'm pretty sure it will get support from at least of the few big engines: ID Tech, Unreal, Unity, and CryEngine all seem to be potential candidates. 90+ percent of games use one of these engines.

Mikeb8517• 13 years ago

Targeting DirectX is a waste of time because Windows can run OpenGL, and players can use the latest OpenGL features on every version of Windows (ie. not have to update to Windows 8.1 just to use a newer version of DirectX)...

jon-wood• 13 years ago

"In-home Streaming"

This one is going to be the killer I think - it means two things to me.

1. Not everything has to be ported to Linux straight out of the gate.

2. Its going straight on my living room machine! I've been waiting for the ability to use my beafy gaming PC (which is at a desk, with a keyboard and mouse) to drive games on the TV for a long time.

jdavid• 13 years ago

I don't know if that means intra-home streaming or inter-home streaming. Basically i'm not sure if that means Valve/Steam is doing what nVidia, AMD, MS, and onLive are doing or if they are doing something else.

AJ007• 13 years ago

Porting old games no, porting new games yes.

Using the word easy liberally, Unity makes it easy to develop multi-platform games. Unreal is going the same direction.

In the past each platform had its unique limitations. Now all devices down to a tiny smart phone are very powerful. The mobile market is gigantic. Users go from device to device.

Take a look at Occulus Rift + the wireless devices used to control it. The days of sitting down with a keyboard and mouse are passing, even for the desktop users.

Google, Apple, Amazon, and others are gearing up for what are in effect micro-consoles. Other than Apple they are all Android. Its as good of time as ever for Steam to move forward.

mbell• 13 years ago

A good chunk of the console games barely make it to PC/Windows as it is, let alone a PC/Linux platform... seems like a tough sell.

True today but both the PS4 and XBone are now 8 core x86 platforms with desktop style GPUs. I would imagine most developers already abstract away the OS/graphics APIs as much as possible to facilitate porting to both consoles, adding a third platform for a 'PC port' should be much easier this console generation, particularly given that the relative pain of coding for the PS3 cell processor is now gone.

lelandbatey3• 13 years ago

Honestly, I think that what Valve's going for here is they're trying to generate hype around a "new platform" that's actually an existing platform that's underutilized. Valve sees that there's a lot of what's effectively free RND work going into Linux as a platform for gaming, but that no one's taking advantage of that.

I think SteamOS is just going to be a highly tuned distro, since Valve really doesn't have the man power (or the internal motivation) to build an entirely new platform. However, they are trying to make it seem like a new and different platform so that the distributors and studios will take notice and say "Maybe we should develop for this." In doing so they'll be developing for Linux at large, they just might not know it.

lbenes• 13 years ago

Valve has the resources; it's more a issue of internal commitment, which I agree they don't seem willing to make. To make SteamOS a serious contender to NXE Dashboard or CellOS they'd need to:

* Develop a XrossMediaBar like UI

* Devote resources to Wayland or Mir to reach production quality

* Create a new audio subsystem, or bring OSS v4 up to date for Linux

If I heard something like Valve dedicating 5 programmers on Wayland and 2 on OSS, SteamBox could be a serious contender for my next console purchase.

DigitalSea2• 13 years ago

If they announce Half Life 3 as an exclusive launch title for Steam OS, I think there are a lot of people who would give it a shot. Steam is a very influential and well-connected company, don't underestimate them.

Anonymous9823• 13 years ago

It's an operating system, there are not going to be exclusive launch titles. Unless of course, you think Valve is going to release HL3 only for Linux users, but that idea is absurd.

geuis• 13 years ago

The market is already there. Steam already has more users that both Xbox and Playstation combined.

rkalla11• 13 years ago

Assuming you meant Xbox 360 and PS3, I think your stats are off:

    * Steam - ~60 million [1]
    * Xbox 360 - ~80 million [2]
    * PS3 - ~80 million [3]

If you literally meant the Xbox and PS2 from 11 years ago, then yes, you are probably correct :)

  [1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steam_(software)
  [2] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_best-selling_game_consoles#Microsoft
  [3] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_best-selling_game_consoles#Sony

Aqueous• 13 years ago

There is no "Linux Platform", unfortunately.

I think that's what Steam is doing here. Creating a platform that doesn't exist yet, to bridge PC and console gaming.

jamie_ca• 13 years ago

Also, even for games that do have a Windows release, it's hard enough getting a Mac release most days... Linux is an even tougher sell in the current market, but perhaps that'll change if Valve can start showing some serious SteamOS install numbers?

pippy3• 13 years ago

One thing people haven't mentioned in this thread is the Windows Store. Windows is already following OS X in creating a walled garden with signed software. Microsoft implementing more controls on the Windows software ecosystem could be catastrophic for companies like Valve.

Steam OS will ensure Valve has something to rely on, it will also force Windows to keep tabs on their software ecosystem.

damian2000• 13 years ago

Microsoft isn't killing the Windows Desktop (i.e. traditional windows apps) anytime soon. 99.9% of Windows users rely on it.

moneyrich4• 13 years ago

Is anyone else skeptical that they can motivate publishers to spend time/money porting their games to the Linux platform?

no.

porting and refactoring tools are so good now you can even port a direct3d app to opengl in 2 days or less, you could use a d3d>opengl wrapper in a day of work.

libraries are also so good at dual platform it requires minimal changes (usually just a new build system).. afaik the biggest change is handling input (theres no directInput on linux - most games use directInput for mouse/kb).

theres also numerous benefits to a closed system economy like an app store - for example even if nobody uses it you are practically exclusive and will get more buys than other places you can sell your app.

rkalla11• 13 years ago

I would merely make the point that if porting was as painfully simple as you suggest here, non-first-party publishers would be making their games available for every platform (in most cases) without a second thought.

Even though multi-plat development is infinitely easier today than it was even 5 years ago, I still think getting titles onto multiple platforms is much harder and time consuming than you are giving it credit.

johnyzee• 13 years ago

Is anyone else skeptical that they can motivate publishers to spend time/money porting their games to the Linux platform?

All they have to do is heavily subsidize (or give away) the console they are undoubtedly working on. Right from the get-go you can stream your existing PC Steam games to your TV which everyone will jump on. When the installed base is large enough, publishers will follow.

rkalla11• 13 years ago

This sounds an awfully lot like: "To be rich all you have to do is make a ton of money and then you can buy whatever you want" -- yes... I absolutely agree, but there is an ocean sized gap of potentially company-crippling decisions between "heavily subsidize/give away" and "large enough install base, publishers will follow" :)

shin_lao• 13 years ago

You can stream games from your desktop to Steam OS. That alone is awesome.

mortdeus• 13 years ago

I wrote a response to your comment but it became rather long so I decided to make it into a blog post instead.

http://mortdeus.blogspot.com/2013/09/linux-core-component-po...

freshfunk• 13 years ago

Game developers can just use cross-platform games engines (like Unity) that support Windows, Mac and Linux.

sandGorgon• 13 years ago

Lovely - this is what I had discussed more than a year back [1] This same OS can be repackaged for the desktop. I would think superb hardware compatibility, driver support and fundamental media library innovations would make it a compelling base on which to layer on a desktop UI.

I wonder what packaging format will they use for their games ?

[1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=3888472

Sukotto• 13 years ago

Since I spend most of my time in front of a computer screen and not a tv, I hope they also roll out some improvements to the steam client as well.

Things like the ability to tag my games with multiple categories; To see trailers and descriptions of the games I "bought and forgot"; Pause the game and read the user manual; and the ability to actually PLAY a game right now instead of being forced to wait for hours while it downloads and applies updates to itself and the game I already have downloaded, installed, and partly played.

bigdubs2• 13 years ago

I'd settle for < 4 second load times on the pages within their shitty web based interface.

The old steam was snappy and fast, new steam is a bloated pile of garbage by comparison.

lelandbatey3• 13 years ago

That's cause the new steam browser uses a customized chromium engine, while the old steam just used the trident (internet explorer) engine that's part of windows.

sliverstorm8• 13 years ago

That's very possibly the least important thing about Steam to me. When I want to browse the store, I just launch Firefox...

drivers99• 13 years ago

"being forced to wait for hours while it downloads and applies updates to itself and the game I already have downloaded, installed, and partly played."

The default is to keep the game updated, I believe. Do you have it set to not do that? But then, I also have steam set to start on boot up. If you rarely start the steam client then it's going to need to apply updates. Do you have it set to start steam on boot up?

mahyarm• 13 years ago

You just have to click 'store page' on the right to see trailers and such for games you've bought and forgot.

skizm2• 13 years ago

Can I still browse the internet?

TazeTSchnitzel4• 13 years ago

Yes. Steam's Big Picture mode has its own web browser, as does Steam itself.

skizm2• 13 years ago

Sweet. I wonder how it will compare to XBMC. I'm looking to buy/build a media center PC within the month and been checking out operating systems for it. This is now a contender.

programminggeek2• 13 years ago

Building their own linux is the right move to create the kind of end user experience it will take for the living room PC to work.

Think about the XBox 360 and the XBox One. They are both basically a windows kernel with a totally custom UI designed for the living room. It's about creating the best possible experience for the end user.

You can already get steam client with big picture mode on Linux, what this does is creates something analogous to ChromeOS, but purpose built for gaming instead of web browsing.

If linux gaming is going to have a mass market chance, SteamOS or OUYA a similar approach is going to be how it gets there.

consider_this• 13 years ago

I think this is Valve's answer to the chicken/egg problem of new platform/app availability.

Build it and they will come.

venomsnake6• 13 years ago

I would say that a lot of people are there already. A lot of developers are switching to linux as desktop os. Except the games everything in the toolchain works better there and windows tools work fine.

And the IT guys have long been the core of the PC gaming scene.

So ... it was not a chicken and egg problem but a demand that needed answering.

rufugee• 13 years ago

I sincerely hope the release the streaming client for use on other Linux dists as well. This would mean a welcome end to my current dual-boot setup.

xSwag2• 13 years ago

So what is the chance that Gaben will make everything proprietary? Releasing games for the SteamOS with license restrictions to make them unplayable on other Linux distros? What if he makes a deal with AMD/NVidia to make drivers only for SteamOS which won't be available to normal Linux users? I don't want linux to go towards that direction.

aahls• 13 years ago

What reason does he have to do any of this?

Valve makes money if you buy games on Steam on other distros too.

venomsnake6• 13 years ago

Also Valve is not scared of piracy. Steamworks have been a joke since day 1 and kept that way on purpose.

marcosdumay4• 13 years ago

That would turn their most vocal supporters into enemies, destroy their plans to make Linux a viable gamming plataform (and Valve needs Linux to be viable, for keeping MS from destrying them), assure that nobody ever uses their new SteamOS (people that don't care are already doing similar stuff with Windows), and alienate everybody that is selling specialized Steam hardware.

Unless they get a MS-like world domination, the chances of that happening are near enough 0 that you'd better care about other problems.

hnha2• 13 years ago

in other words, they'll wait until they are fully embraced...;)

ihsw• 13 years ago

Don't be ridiculous -- Canonical has taken control of Ubuntu development and now they have a reputation for being authoritarian and secretive. There are fewer ways to alienate the open-source community than that and yet Ubuntu's popularity soars.

The more critical people are of Canonical, the more fervent Ubuntu supporters become. "How will they make money" will be parroted just as loudly, if not more-so.

Mikeb8517• 13 years ago

Remember, Gabe used to work at MS. He knows how they work, and knows the pros and cons of the way they do business. Nowadays, you have companies like IBM, Oracle, Google, Amazon, and many others embracing Linux, none of them have ruined the 'open-ness' of Linux, they've all contributed. Gabe should be smart enough to know that all he needs is a platform on which his ecosystem can run. Chrome is a platform, Steam is a platform - it's in their interest to make their platform as portable as possible - in otherwords run on any Linux base...

skriticos23• 13 years ago

Not much. They benefit a lot from the open image and maintenance model. Going proprietary on the platform side makes zero sense and would just increase the cost and bind a lot of resources better used for generating money with their core business.

JonSkeptic• 13 years ago

How long till we see the "SteamOS on Raspberry Pi" threads?

johndavidback• 13 years ago

Ha, the first thing I searched for on this thread was "raspberry". I just got mine last week. However, there's no way in the world that thing will be able to run modern games.

div• 13 years ago

I have a spare Pi laying around, and I'm hopeful at least. According to the SteamOS page there's a streaming mode where you basically do the processing on your Desktop / Server, and SteamOS just takes care of input and streaming.

Fingers crossed !

jimmcslim2• 13 years ago

Or SteamOS inside a Docker container!

;-)

pekk8• 13 years ago

Why not, each distribution/DRM platform can go in its own sandbox... ;)

frio• 13 years ago

This actually isn't a terrible idea. It's been a _long_ time since I've gamed on Linux, but I remember playing Tribes 2 in aeons past, and had to patch a decent chunk of the libraries in my distro to get it working. Using something like Docker/LXC to define the runtime environment of a game would probably help to make life a lot easier.

siphr5• 13 years ago

The success and effectiveness of the console, I believe, is dictated by the following statement:

"Watch for announcements in the coming weeks about all the AAA titles coming natively to SteamOS in 2014. Access the full Steam catalog of over nearly 3000 games and desktop software titles via in-home streaming."

To me this suggests that they are actively trying to get developers to port and they have had some success. Also I believe that a lot of developers will not port and to handle those cases they've introduced the home streaming functionality so that you could stream your windows game to the steam box via a windows steam client running somewhere.

lesbaker• 13 years ago

Some responses say SteamOS is not open source, in the press release, it says "Users can alter or replace any part of the software or hardware they want." So I'm guessing if not open-source, the user would download a disk image, then go in and change the configuration, install media-center front-end software, etc, after the fact?

Regardless, I'm very interested, but just curious how easy and flexible it will be.

david_otoole2• 13 years ago

Can you sideload games that aren't on Steam?

rocky11385• 13 years ago

Current Steam lets you add non-Steam games. No word yet (AFAIK) on whether or not that will continue when it becomes its own OS.

david_otoole2• 13 years ago

I sort of worry about that. As a userspace client Steam could never have hoped to lock out non-approved games, but as an OS it probably could. The HN commentariat probably skew pro-curation, but I for one think it would be bad for the future of Indie games if Steambox did not support side loading.

mladenkovacevic2• 13 years ago

This effectively gives traditional desktop OEMs a relatively cheap and easy entry into the living room, and a new category of product to sell effectively and compete against Xbox, PS4, and the mobile OSs who will be trying to gain entry into the living room soon.

RyanZAG• 13 years ago

This is basically a similar approach Android took for phones. It leverages off Linux while replacing user facing pieces to give the user a simplified and consistent environment that they expect.

However as with Android, that isn't enough to get it to take off. Android had huge traction problems to start with until they managed to get the big device makers to train users and market the devices. SteamOS is going to have the same rough and long launch period, but the ultimate payoff is very big as the tech is all there and it's just a matter of getting the big game publishers to join up.

As with mobiles and Google, if anybody can succeed in the gaming industry, it's Steam. So I definitely wouldn't write this one off, I think it will take off in a few years time if they can get the big players - both software and hardware - to join up.

snotrockets4• 13 years ago

I suspect that like Android, they're going to leverage Linux-the-kernel, but have a user space that is alien to the one common in current Linux servers and desktops.

I can understand: I'd say good riddance to some parts of the userspace myself coughX windows systemcough, but having a few different userspaces is like having the UNIX wars all over again.

PS "The UNIX wars" has a modern space opera ring to it, like something out of an Orson Scott Card book (or JMS script. Or maybe your-favourite author. I don't read enough Sci-Fi to know). And now I have an urge to write a comics^W graphic novel adaptation of the UNIX wars. It'll be glorious!

fps• 13 years ago

That seems really unlikely. Steam for Linux runs on Ubuntu as it's platform of choice, and installs via apt-get. They're already running all their games under X and the standard Ubuntu userspace tools, with BigPicture, it would be very surprising for them to fork the platform at this point.

Android made sense because standard linux/X windows applications didn't work on a multi-touch mobile device for a whole host of reasons. PC games work fine on Linux and X.

fdr_cs• 13 years ago

I don't think so. It will be probably based on Ubuntu LTS

scarlson2• 13 years ago

EA won't be there. Blizzard won't be there. Steam is increasingly becoming a great indie platform where the only AAA titles we see on it are Valve's.

rodgerd2• 13 years ago

In what universe are Grand Theft Auto, Borderlands, Bioshock, Skyrim, Call of Duty, and Saints Row indie titles?

pmarsh• 13 years ago

Like Android had Google users, Steam has a user base already.

I think that will help get people onboard as well. Everything is already right there for you, your friend list, your games, your awards, your wallet.

Getting a box running SteamOS is just another piece of the puzzle for Steam users invested in the ecosystem.

ameoba• 13 years ago

Valve, a AAA developer in their own right, already has plans to release their own hardware & doesn't need to wait for a third party to make hardware for this to succeed. They already have a massive base of customers which have already invested hundreds, if not thousands of dollars, in their Steam libraries so they don't need to build traction. Game consoles, while a significant expense, are not an all or nothing commitment like a cellphone - customers can easily have a Steam box in addition to their PlayStation, Xbox or PC.

It's not really fair to compare this to Android. Android succeeded, not because of Google's user base but because of Google's financial clout. Companies thought that throwing in their lot with Google was a safe bet - there's too much money behind the project for it to fail. People are going to throw in with Valve because it's a smart bet - it's bringing what gamers want to the table.

ijk3• 13 years ago

Even if this never gets majority traction compared to consoles, I suspect it will be worth it for Valve. Ever since Microsoft tried to cut them off with the Windows Store, Valve has been working to have an independent platform. Having alternative platforms gives Valve room to maneuver.

davexunit2• 13 years ago

I don't like that Valve says that SteamOS is "freely licensable". They must know by now that the word "free" often means "libre" in the GNU/Linux community, but they've made no indication of what the license terms will actually be.

TazeTSchnitzel4• 13 years ago

Presumably the GNU/Linux core is libre and Steam is freeware. Why would it be anything else?

davexunit2• 13 years ago

The point is that Valve is using confusing language to claim that they are "open", instead of saying what they are really doing: writing proprietary software that sits on top of a free software operating system.

emehrkay• 13 years ago

I've been asking for years why someone just doesn't make a XBMC-like os for gaming on commodity PC hardware. Glad to see it finally happening. I'm very excited for this. My son who is 11 will be too

jknt1164• 13 years ago

I'm not a software dev, so this might be a really dumb question, but how hard is it to port/co-develop Windows/Mac games to Linux?

From what I can find out, PS3 is based on FreeBSD and WiiU is a heavily modified version of Linux, possibly Android. XBOX obviously Windows. Would it be that much harder to also have a SteamOS version in the mix too.

venomsnake6• 13 years ago

According to John Carmack its a few weeks worth to port, and maybe even less to extend wine.

But that is like saying that according to Superman going to the moon is a few minutes of flight.

munchor• 13 years ago

And while Superman might be a hell of a Super Hero, what he said doesn't mean much. Its heavily dependent on libraries/frameworks/engines and technologies used to make the game.

If you use something like C++ and SDL it shouldn't be too hard (if not automatic), but if you use something like C#/XNA it could be harder (if not impossible?), but anyway I think (hope) most C# game developers and ex-XNA users use MonoGame these days.

aryastark2• 13 years ago

I don't think porting is the main issue, with Linux adoption. It's always been support. You extend to another platform, you're instantly responsibly for all the tech support of your game on that platform.

IIRC, id Software pretty much had a "you're on your own" type of deal, with people using Linux. They provided the Quake binary, gave a README and some FAQs, and then you're on your own.

Likewise, Blizzard does not allow people to run World of Warcraft on platforms other than Windows and OS X. They know people run under WINE and could prevent them. But they don't. They just don't support it. It's win-win for them. More users without doing anything.

Porting is pretty easy if you target OpenGL and keep everything (sound, input) generic. SDL also works on many platforms.

mrinterweb• 13 years ago

I wonder if they will white-list any games are not natively ported to linux that have good wine compatibility. SteamOS could manage the wine configurations for those games. With enough platform adoption, this should help game companies to start targeting linux natively.

th0br03• 13 years ago

As someone who's had a lot of fun writing game hacks for ET:QW and QuakeLive back in the days and while I greatly enjoy seeing this move to Linux, I'm quite worried about game hacks on SteamOS. There are so many attack vectors on Linux and, currently, VALVE's Anti Cheat (VAC v3) does not, as far as I know, cover any of those. You can still inject your hack via LD_PRELOAD + detouring dlsym/dlopen. Even were that not possible, you could have fun with, e.g., ptrace.

I'm looking forward to seeing what VALVE's done to fight this, especially as I expect SteamOS to eventually be repackaged to run on any distribution...

viraptor• 13 years ago

Is there even an expectation that anti-cheat utilities can work? They're worse than DRM - unless the anti-cheat software is certified and your system can do hardware trusted execution, it's going to be worked around. (it's most likely also possible in case of trusted execution...)

th0br03• 13 years ago

They do have some limited success at deterring "script kiddies" and similar, however I think that this is far more difficult to do on Linux than Windows. Back when there were a few games around on Linux that used PunkBuster (America's Army, Enemy Territory), PB offered almost no real protection and, e.g., ET's mod developers decided to build in some anti cheat protection of their own into the mods which was superior to PB's. (Which, of course, also got bypassed eventually)

throwaway20485• 13 years ago

exactly the same sort of tricks are possible on windows via debugging hooks and process injection. I don't see how Linux is any more problematic on this front.

th0br03• 13 years ago

Windows is closed source and offers some pseudo-"security" through that. Also, you can't just modify the kernel to suit your needs...

kllrnohj2• 13 years ago

You can still inject your hack via LD_PRELOAD + detouring dlsym/dlopen. Even were that not possible, you could have fun with, e.g., ptrace.

This all works on Windows, too. It's what things like FRAPS use, or the half dozen game overlays that apps like Mumble offer (including Steam's for that matter)

Anti-cheat systems are just a constantly escalating game of cat & mouse like anti-virus systems where signatures and code patterns are recognized, game DLLs are hashed to see if they were modified, etc... There's zero, zilch, nada OS level support for these.

msy• 13 years ago

Add in Netflix (or a competitor) integration and you've got the potential to put all 3 major consoles on the ropes in a few years. Given Halflife 2 launched steam my bet is HL3 will be used to launch this.

josh2600• 13 years ago

Please... No more HL3 fake launch announcements. Please.

If HL3 comes out as a SteamOS exclusive; well that would be quite the coup.

nemo1618• 13 years ago

Kind of crazy to think that Valve has the power to make 2014 the fabled "Year of the Linux Desktop" simply by making HL3 a Linux exclusive.

webwielder• 13 years ago

At last, all the unresponsiveness, bugginess, and ugliness of Steam in OS form!

topbanana• 13 years ago

Most Steam games require keyboard and mouse. I don't see how that can work in the living room

cheald• 13 years ago

You'd be surprised at how many don't. I have a little Windows box connected to my TV right now, with a $10 Xbox controller wireless receiver. Steam runs in Big Picture mode, and I'd say that somewhere between a third and a half of my games play great with a controller. I've been doing most of my gaming that way lately, and it's a very nice experience.

dragonwriter2• 13 years ago

Most Steam games require keyboard and mouse. I don't see how that can work in the living room

If the issue is "how do you get control devices that work for that use case", wireless keyboards and mice with suitable range for living room use exist (I've seen them mostly used in large conference rooms, but the requirements aren't very different.)

If the issue is "how do you use control devices in that environment since they call for surfaces", lapdesks, coffee tables, etc., are frequently found in living rooms. If people want to play their existing keyboard-and-mouse focussed Steam games in their living rooms, its not hard to see how they can.

But I think that -- as with other consoles -- the games that are playable with more traditional "gaming controllers" will be more popular for the livingroom role than keyboard-and-mouse driven games. But plenty of PC games have, for years, been very similar to console games and support game controllers (even though they usually had KB/mouse support since that's what you could count on users having on the PC platform), so I don't think this is going to be much of an issue.

Apocryphon3• 13 years ago

Keyboard/mouse peripherals have been sold as add-ons for game consoles as early as the original Playstation, if not earlier.

lotyrin3• 13 years ago

As a male 20-something tech enthusiast that is friends with others of the same, I don't visit many living rooms which don't have a keyboard and mouse as permanent fixtures.

xpose2000• 13 years ago

"In SteamOS, we have achieved significant performance increases in graphics processing".

I assume they mean in comparison to other Linux OSs. Beating windows drivers seems a bit far fetched?

dfbrown• 13 years ago

I think they mean in comparison to Windows. They have previously reported getting better performance using OpenGL on Linux than DirectX on Windows[1]

1: http://blogs.valvesoftware.com/linux/faster-zombies/

Simucal• 13 years ago

Valve has reported better performance in Linux than in Windows 7 for at least one of their titles [1].

[1] http://www.zdnet.com/valve-linux-runs-our-games-faster-than-...

pekk8• 13 years ago

Depending greatly on your hardware. And there's the rub. And there's the reason it could be really nice to have Steam boxes and certification of hardware for SteamOS

Mikeb8517• 13 years ago

Nvidia Linux drivers are very good, and are at feature parity with Windows drivers.

And in general, OpenGL is quicker than DirectX...

jdc2• 13 years ago

What if SteamOS were released to a group of perspective and current gaming hardware manufacturers à la Android? The DirectX platform may be incumbent on the mid to high-end x86 PCs, but if Valve were to target the Wii/smartphone gaming demographic they'd stand a decent chance at commoditizing consoles.

kgp7• 13 years ago

They never seem to define what a Living room machine is ? I wouldn't consider a desktop be a living room machine.

portmanteaufu• 13 years ago

If only Valve would provide us with an exemplary device!

jdc2• 13 years ago

Valve doesn't need all the AAA titles initially. What if SteamOS were released to a group of perspective and current gaming hardware manufacturers à la Android? Despite the DirectX platform being incumbent on the mid to high-end x86 PCs, if Valve were to target the Wii/smartphone gaming demographic they'd stand a decent chance at commoditizing consoles.

pdxnative• 13 years ago

I would disagree here. Nobody likes fragmentation. If Valve can't deliver AAA on linux right away, then this will likely go the way of Ouya. The most interesting thing here is the streaming which could act as a bridge until we see native Linux AAA games.

Lastly, DirectX is so widely used in game engines. I haven't seen any hard evidence (not coming from Valve) that OpenGL can meet or exceed DirectX capabilities. I'd love to see real data on this.

nemothekid• 13 years ago

The Wii/smartphone demographic proved terrible for Nintendo and ouya. A dedicated box cannot compete with iPads and iPhones, no one wants to play Angry Birds on their 40"

BigChiefSmokem• 13 years ago

This needs to be marketed to consumers the same way Windows was in the 90s and iOS/Android is today or else it has no chance of gaining any real... Steam.

The Linux or tech community alone will not make this happen. They need to do a Windows/iOS/Android and push this out on marketable hardware for the masses or else it will just be another niche tech product.

No cool commercials, no chance.

Fuzzwah2• 13 years ago

Exclusive period for HL3 on SteamOS. Done.

jason_slack• 13 years ago

So, this means I could build a PC with SteamOS, hook it to my TV, XBox controllers and play all the same games in our living room. Am I thinking about this right?

matt_r3• 13 years ago

If you want to play any non-linux games, you have to have a capable-enough PC to stream the games from, it sounds like. But other than that, yeah.

Jaecen2• 13 years ago

Having a machine boot into Steam will have an interesting effect on other similar services like Origin and Desura. It will no longer be sufficient to request customers install yet another download manager/DRM platform; instead customers would have to boot in to a different OS to play their Origin games.

pekk8• 13 years ago

So much the worse for Origin, which was a stupid idea anyway.

Desura runs on Linux.

Jaecen2• 13 years ago

Desura runs on Linux, but assuming SteamOS is akin to "boot to Stream Big Screen," users won't have a Gnome or KDE desktop to install it to. In such a case, Desura's existence on SteamOS depends on either inclusion in Valve's marketplace or users' willingness to venture off the map.

Mikeb8517• 13 years ago

This is the best thing to happen to Linux since Steam came (which itself was the best thing ever).

This gives developers even more incentive to use cross platform tools, to develop on OpenGL, and to make things work with Linux.

bryanh• 13 years ago

Let's hope they don't got the route of Android, which is perhaps the most successful consumerization of Linux to date, wherein they allow hardware vendors bog it down with crapware...

toblender2• 13 years ago

I wonder if history will repeat itself, will Valve be the next Apple?

Apple took FreeBSD and makes it into OSX. > Valve takes Linux and makes it into SteamOS.

Apple makes iTunes for music, unifying digital music download > Valve makes Steam for games, unifying digital game download

Apple make IPOD for digital music playing > Valve make (SteamBox?) for game playing

Damn I wish I could own some Valve stock...

Symmetry• 13 years ago

The differences in licensing between the BSD license and GPL are designed to prevent them from doing all of what Apple did with FreeBSD.

GalacticDomin8r2• 13 years ago

what Apple did with FreeBSD

Please tell us what Apple did with FreeBSD.

quiesce• 13 years ago

Apple took FreeBSD and makes it into OSX.

No, they took NeXTSTEP and made it into OS X. However much they may now have in common, the history of the codebase goes back years prior to the existence of FreeBSD.

GalacticDomin8r2• 13 years ago

Let's try again with facts:

http://lists.freebsd.org/pipermail/freebsd-advocacy/2008-Aug...

mmanfrin• 13 years ago

I really, sincerely hope they will get rid of the block that allows only one computer to be signed in at a time. I don't like the idea of having to relogin every time I switch computers (as is the case now).

BuckRogers2• 13 years ago

Set your secondary machines to start in offline mode. That's what I do unless I want to chat.

TomNomNom• 13 years ago

Given the streaming feature they've mentioned I think it would be safe to assume that you'll at the very least be able to have two machines signed in.

BuckRogers2• 13 years ago

The way for Valve (if you're reading this) to make SteamOS/Linux the top gaming platform overnight?

Make HL3 Linux-only.

Don't do a Windows/Mac port for 2 years. Watch all of us gamers scramble to dual boot at minimum, if not see the writing on the wall and do a wholesale swapout on our Windows gaming boxes.

johnward• 13 years ago

As evil as this sounds, exclusivity works for the other consoles.

mikevm3• 13 years ago

Given the current high-end game engines that seem to support all the popular platforms out of the box (Windows, Mac, consoles), how difficult is it really to ship a game with Linux support?

leokun• 13 years ago

Will this be a game only platform or can I do work on it too?

matt_r3• 13 years ago

According to The Verge, SteamOS will boot straight into Steam with Big Picture mode, and you wont see linux at all "unless you want to" [1]. So... for whatever that's worth.

[1] http://www.theverge.com/2013/2/6/3958162/valve-steam-box-cak...

rlu• 13 years ago

What I'm curious of is most of Steam's users are probably avid PC gaming fans that prefer PC gaming over console gaming

At least that's true for me and various of my 'internet friends'

NoPiece• 13 years ago

I am with you, but I am a PC gaming fan, not necessarily a Windows gaming fan. WHat I like about this is not the ability to put a Steambox into my living room, but to replace windows with SteamOS on my PC.

m_mueller• 13 years ago

If I had a console with sane controls and games that fully support those controls (e.g. mouse / keyboard for first person games), I'd totally dig replacing my gaming PC with a console. Unifying your gaming PC with your living room hardware gives you a nice advantage in that you can maximize your budget for a nice HD TV / HiFi sound setup instead of buying all that stuff twice.

philjackson• 13 years ago

How open will this be? Will game developers have to licence the right to develop for SteamOS? If not, it'll potentially be huge!

vitd• 13 years ago

I have to say - after trying to simply play a 2-player game of Portal 2 with a friend over the Internet and having so much go wrong, I don't have a lot of faith that they'll be able to maintain an operating system.

We see constant problems just trying to download the same map. Sometimes the game just shoves us over to a screen with no options and the game has to be force-quit to exit it. Other times it crashes during loading. It won't download to both of our computers at the same time, so it downloads to one first, then, only after the first one has finished, to the other. On those rare occasions that we actually get into the game, there are lots of glitches. I mean, when it works it's really fun, but the number of problems that occur along the way is just phenomenal. It's like using software from the 80s again. It's terrible.

samograd• 13 years ago

Yay, the 80s UNIX wars all over again:

http://www.bell-labs.com/history/unix/wars.html

jmomo• 13 years ago

How is "Windows 8" NOT found on this discussion???

It is very unlikely, had Microsoft not decided to go nuts and release a dead-end train wreck of an OS that thew it's passengers/users into the ravine in the name of chasing MacOS and touchscreens that everyone wanted with the same enthusiasm as to 3DTV, that Valve would be so scared of the future on Windows that they would need their own Linux-based platform. Not to mention Mac support.

I am a huge Linux advocate, but this is much more about Valve being scared and running away from Microsoft Windows than it was the greatness of GNU/Linux.

I wonder how Steve Ballmer being fired will change the direction of Microsoft and it's products. What will be the future of Windows?

If they keep trying to actively throw their users off the train with wildly backwards-incompatible user experiences, you can expect even Microsoft Office to start supporting GNU/Linux for fear of the future of Windows.

kinnth• 13 years ago

So long as this box will play hl2 engine games, most notably DOTA2 it's going to be fine. DOTA2 in 2014 is going to skyrocket it's going to be the next WOW and it will secure valves revenue. This box is really just gabe saying fuck you to Microsoft and Sony - let me keep my TV open!

ChikkaChiChi• 13 years ago

GTA:V Bundled Editions sold quite nicely over the past week. Seems like bundling your own console with your own game just became a reality.

Valve just got every major publisher to take a serious look at what they are doing.

goggles99• 13 years ago

What qualifies as a "New" operating system? This is slightly modified Linux, with a slightly modified UI. Is that really considered new? How about calling it a new Linux variant rather than a new Operating System.

maxmcd• 13 years ago

marketing

lotyrin3• 13 years ago

Because most of their target audience isn't pedantic existing users of Desktop Linux, it's people that are using Steam on Windows.

Furthermore, for most people an "OS" is not a collection of general purpose kernel and userspsace as components, it's a vertically integrated and holistic product + experience.

Cyranix• 13 years ago

Here's hoping that this effort is where they've been concentrating some of their non-game devs. There have been longstanding issues with Valve-produced UX once you look beyond the in-game aspects. TF2 server list couldn't sort properly on the first update for years, the Steam browser is often dog slow, etc. -- things that are front-and-center pain points for me. A perfect initial release isn't a reasonable goal, but I do hope that they'll be able to polish the out-of-game experience better than they have in the past.

pippy3• 13 years ago

The first circle is SteamOS, the second will likely to be the Steambox: http://store.steampowered.com/livingroom/

There's also a third circle there...

galaktor• 13 years ago

I'm surprised yours is the only comment I saw pointing out the incremental approach to this "living room" goal Valve has been using.

The steam box will obviously require some OS to run, and it seems perfectly reasonable to ship the OS, get feedback for it and it's features (i.e. streaming), and have it production-tested once the inevitable steam box is ready. Why take the risk of shipping all-new-everything when you can do it in smaller steps?

wnevets• 13 years ago

the 3rd circle will be HL3

scottmcleod• 13 years ago

Will we see a USB device for Smart TV's later this week?

otikik• 13 years ago

To me the big thing is "Music, TV and Movies". If they are able to get rid of the "This Show is not Available in Your Country" thing, that would be huge.

jebblue• 13 years ago

Is it just me or does Valve still rock? These guys really keep powering along, steady pace, good going guys, best wishes with your new platform!

evanmoran• 13 years ago

As someone mentioned this is just the first announcement of three: http://store.steampowered.com/livingroom/

Announcement 1, SteamOS: is just a fancy way to say you can create custom Steam consoles by just installing some software. Make the box as good or a cheap as you want and everything will just workPretty awesome, but definitely this will be dwarfed by...

Announcement 2, people are guessing is a Valve distributed "SteamBox": a console that is presumably very cheap and linux based. This would give Xbox One and PS4 a run for their money and with the social aspects of Steam built-in, this could be a break out hit with a price of 50% all the other consoles.

Announcement 3, is the large unknown here. We don't know what it is, but if it is bigger (or equal to) SteamBox this could be a huge deal. Nothing really makes sense here. We know:

* SteamBox will support streaming from your windows/mac machine so it will be able to run every game at launch.

* SteamBox will likely have lots of publishers signed on. Probably as many or more then on xbox one / ps4. If they are already using an engine that targets multiple platforms (Unreal or Unity) they are definitely going to try to support it.

* SteamBox will likely support all the features of steam with friend lists, chat, voice, purchasing over the cloud, etc. So the + might mean sharing, but a new kind?

* SteamBox supports game sharing at a friends or family level. I see this as a kind of Netflix-like persona idea: an account gains separate personas that each have different friends lists and achievements. Very powerful and necessary once Steam hits the living room and multiple people are using the same box / account.

What it could be:

* LAN play for SteamBoxs on the same network (announced in Dota, this could explain the circle + circle graphic). Maybe you share the game between friends, and stream to the other boxes? That would be pretty awesome.

* Game streaming from other people's SteamBoxs? This would be an awesome way to share a game. It is like onlive but for distributed for everyone (seems unlikely. That kind of streaming would stop your friends from being able to play).

* A launch title like Half-life 3 (seems unlikely with the circle + circle logo implying you need multiple SteamOS instances).

* A new kind of social experience, maybe a built in way to be a part of the game creation process or improved social network experiences on Steam (seems unlikely to be big enough to be the final announcement)

* A new kind of hardware like a VR headset(seems unlikely, as cheap will be a big feature of this box)

This is marketing at its best. They hooked us good.

bobbles2• 13 years ago

This is going to be great. I can't wait to have a steambox in the lounge room that has access to all my steam games and something like Plex

mwilcox• 13 years ago

O+O

OS + Oculus?

deletes3• 13 years ago

That is a nice idea, however Oculus is not consumer ready yet.

sold• 13 years ago

A launch title like Half-life 3 (seems unlikely with the circle + circle logo implying you need multiple SteamOS instances).

I think Left 4 Dead 3 (long rumored) is more likely.

ja2ke• 13 years ago

Third announcement has got to be a controller of some type. The O + O probably = dual analog sticks and a d pad, or some other dual-thumb input controls. There's no way Valve is going to announce a living room platform and then give away the most visible part (the controller) to Microsoft's wired Xbox 360 controller (currently the standard bearer for PC controllers despite being from a console).

bfigares• 13 years ago

This is easily the most groundbreaking news I've heard as a gamer (and from the point of view of an engineer/business geek) in the past four years or so. This will be a really tough blow for the windows platform since the gamer demographic drives a lot of spending. Also it points to a very deep strategic move by valve, vertically integrating the distribution channel and controlling a la Apple which and how games are experienced. I wouldn't be surprised if valve built strong partnerships with hardware providers to provide a fully vertically integrated, key-in-hand gaming platform experience. It is worth mentioning that valve also sells other types of programs through steam... and that it seems this will eventually mutate into it's application store, centralizing the money management for steamOS in general and fully capturing the platform value.

A new apple but instead of "think different", the idea will be "play different"

bobbles2• 13 years ago

Does mac bootcamp only work with windows, or is it any OS?

Id love to have a macmini as a 'steambox'

programminggeek2• 13 years ago

The other thing SteamOS will end up doing that is super interesting is get good controller support on Linux/PC games, which can many times be real lacking.

charonn0• 13 years ago

I told you so https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5186806

alexmat• 13 years ago

Speculation from over a year ago: http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2012/08/16/heres-a-thought-w...

ffog• 13 years ago

If you want to see that third announcement icon a little more clearly, the lit version is already up.

http://cdn3.store.steampowered.com/public/images/promo/livin...

mathgladiator• 13 years ago

Now, if Halflife 3 becomes a SteamOS exclusive, then we might have a shot of a linux gaming environment.

Yuioup• 13 years ago

I'm guessing that o+o means split-screen gaming on the t.v., streaming from two separate Windows machines.

fredsanford2• 13 years ago

I find it ironically funny that, after all of these years of having a near monopoly Microsoft is losing out to the open source it tried so hard to sabotage in the late '90s and early 2000s.

Then, while the MS boat is leaking and sailing haphazardly across the computing landscape, along comes Valve to put a stake in the heart of the MS gaming division...

Could this truly be the beginning of the end of this giant leech on the computer industry?

The combination of this "story" and this one from slate (http://www.slate.com/blogs/future_tense/2013/09/23/microsoft...) makes me wonder...

fredsanford2• 13 years ago

I see the drive by spineless downvoters are showing up here too...

daemonk• 13 years ago

Are they looking to sell their own hardware? How good are graphics card driver support in linux?

z3phyr• 13 years ago

It would be good for valve to project Rustlang as their programming language of choice :)

CmonDev2• 13 years ago

So they are using an open OS foundation to build an OS that will allow them to effectively lock users into their store/environment? And geeks are happy?

olalonde• 13 years ago

Still an improvement over the other consoles which are completely proprietary and locked down. I think it's great that Linux is gaining a wider audience regardless of whether it's due to commercial, technical or ideological reasons. Some people will never be happy...

Mikeb8517• 13 years ago

By the way, anyone who's sceptical of Linux gaming needs to get on Steam, and see what's available for Linux - right now. There are plenty of AAA quality titles already, with many more to come.

Or, for anyone with an Nvidia card and the Nvidia drivers, just download a Unigine demo...

JVIDEL2• 13 years ago

If valve couples this to a reasonably priced htpc and sell it they could get nearly every game available on steam ruining on it using wine.

That's easy because like with consoles you have only one hardware configuration so getting a game to run properly on wine or even better than on windows would be a walk in the park compared to porting it.

Of course this trick won't work with the millions of hardware combinations in today's PCs.

leccine• 13 years ago

Since when did we start to call Ubuntu skins operating systems?

SteamOS

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