GrapheneOS has been ported to Android 17

https://discuss.grapheneos.org/d/36469-grapheneos-has-been-ported-to-android-17-and-official-releases-are-coming-soon

by Cider9986 • 1 month ago

1021 572 1 month ago

discuss.grapheneos.org

I've been using Graphene on my Pixel 7a for about a year and I'm happy I made the switch. For sure it is a bit rougher than using Google's OS, but not enough to make me regret it.

The main things I miss are (1) when I'm entering text I can't swipe left and right on the space bar to scroll the cursor left and right, and (2) the texting app doesn't just attach reaction emojis to a message -- it quotes the whole message and prefixes it with something like "Marty like blahblahblah". When there is a whole family text chain it isn't uncommon to see the same message 7 times as various people react to the original message.

Anyway, I looked at Google's Android 17 blog and yikes:

"With deep integration between hardware, software and AI, we’re transforming Android from an operating system to an intelligence system. It's about delivering new helpful experiences that anticipate user needs, and it brings more opportunities for engagement with your apps."

https://android-developers.googleblog.com/2026/06/Android-17...

andrepd• 1 month ago

Regarding (1), that's on your keyboard, which you can choose. Maybe you can give Futo a try? https://keyboard.futo.org/

jstanley• 1 month ago

Why does it need its own F-droid repo?

danielspace23• 1 month ago

Problem (1) is a keyboard problem, not a GrapheneOS problem. Graphene comes with the stock AOSP keyboard which is very basic, but you can absolutely replace it. Personally I'm using the FUTO Keyboard and it does have that feature, as well as swiping, speech to text and much more.

Maybe you can try installing another SMS app for problem (2)? Much like the stock keyboard, the stock Messaging app is just the AOSP app. Honestly it works fine for me so I don't have a recommendation.

Cider998632• 1 month ago

The main things I miss are (1) when I'm entering text I can't swipe left and right on the space bar to scroll the cursor left and right,

GrapheneOS is compatible with the vast, vast majority of Android apps, so you can use GBoard or FUTO keyboard (which I recently switched to from GBoard), to get the ideal experience.

FUTO recently revamped their swipe to type model and it's now more accurate than GBoard in their testing. I am a huge swipe type person, so this is what held me in GBoard's clutches, but now I'm free.

The dataset is open source and anyone can add to it if you're on a mobile device here: https://swipe.futo.org

And you can learn about it here: https://swipe.futo.tech

the texting app doesn't just attach reaction emojis to a message -- it quotes the whole message and prefixes it with something like "Marty like blahblahblah". When there is a whole family text chain it isn't uncommon to see the same message 7 times as various people react to the original message.

Google messages, the experience you get on PixelOS, is also compatible with GrapheneOS, but you will have to afford network access to sandboxed google play, among other things. I couldn't tell you specifically, but it will work out of the box before you restrict anything. Many people choose to use this setup because it opportunistically adds e2ee for chats between iPhones and other Androids using Google messages.

There's also other SMS apps, but I focused on switching people to Signal so I barely ever use SMS.

Once I replaced the default apps, GrapheneOS became a premium phone experience.

sivers2• 1 month ago

Yes! FUTO keyboard, then go into VOICE INPUT → MODELS → Explore Voice Input Models → English-244: “Best for the most accurate results, but more demanding.”

The voice recognition is built on Whisper, and is amazing. You can speak conversationally for a long time and it gets everything right, with smart decisions based on context.

My stupid thumbs text no more.

arcanemachiner• 1 month ago

There's also Heliboard, which has a swipe-type option

tasty_freeze3• 1 month ago

Thanks for your thoughts. I use FUTO voice usually, but there are situations where typing out a short message is better -- eg, in a restaurant or doctor's office or someplace where voice input might bother other people.

I've found graphene's keyboard far more error-prone than the stock android keyboard, but I also don't care to learn swipe to type.

The feature I'm missing is simply that rubbing my finger left or right on the spacebar in text mode causes the cursor insertion point to move left or right on in the text I'm entering. It makes it sooo much easier to correct typos.

wolvoleo11• 1 month ago

The problem I still have with the futo one is that it can't swipe type in multiple languages without switching every time. Gboard can do that. I use 3 languages intertwined constantly so I need that.

So I still use gboard but block its internet access.

idle_zealot• 1 month ago

I used to dread the promised deep system integration of AI, but honestly after setting Claude up on a server box and having it do sysadmin stuff for me that I've been putting off for ages I see the vision. I don't really want to mess with the details of working through system orchestration tasks, I want to say "spin up this service" and start using it, "change my config so X happens" and it does, and knows what needs restarting to pick up changes and all the fiddly knobs and configs that need syncing and their bespoke formats. I think Nix tried to unify this for people, but it arrived too close to LLMs so a lot of value (in this dimension) has been delivered by other means.

The point is, I'd like to be able to set up services, configuration, and run tasks on my phone this way too, ideally offline. If this system integration is what gives me programmatic control of my most personal computer and the ability to finally set up decent automated tasks and workflows then so be it.

TheRoque• 1 month ago

The thing is they don't setup their "intelligence system" for the type of task you wanna do. They are integrating it for tasks like "buy me a plane ticket for my next holidays", "order diner for me, the usual"...

ptx• 1 month ago

The vendors are never going to give you control over your computer no matter what vision they try to sell you on. The whole point, from their perspective, is to use their control of your computer to gain more control over you, which they hope to then exploit for profit.

idiotsecant2• 1 month ago

Yes, Google famously uses their most advanced technology to make your life easier and not to look up your nose with a scanning electron microscope

Groxx8• 1 month ago

Regarding 2: that is literally how SMS reactions work. Apps that recognize it just interpret it as "put that emoji on that message". It is unfortunate that it doesn't do that tho.

RCS is different, which you can sometimes get working by installing Google Messages¹, which is essentially the only app that supports RCS any more. Google runs essentially all the servers too.

---

1: There are no third-party RCS apps² because, unlike SMS which has an API and a shared database on the device, RCS is extremely locked down and it's literally impossible to create one in stock Android. This is also why it's only "sometimes" on GOS, the details are very complicated and rather enraging.

2: Samsung had one, but they're shutting it down in favor of Google Messages. A tiny number of other devices / telecoms have their own too, but they're rapidly shutting down as well. RCS is very nearly fully controlled and implemented by Google now, except for iMessage as a client only, for now, and there's no encryption between iMessage<->Google Messages last I checked (but there apparently is between Google Messages... but no normal person can really verify that because it's Just Google Everywhere).

rookderby• 1 month ago

I agree with this post and add one anecdotal data point.

I had installed graphene os on a pixel but after a couple months and a couple loops between lineage, stock, and graphene, I eventually settled on stock android. I have group messages with family and some of the family are on apple, some on android, and RCS only works with google messages and google services installed.

It's infuriating that I can't send RCS messages unless google allows me to. I want to go back to email or MMS. Supposedly after a month (!!) RCS group chats will fall back to MMS, but that was not my experience. Also, if you turn RCS on/off you may get kicked out of group messages [0].

[0] https://support.google.com/messages/answer/7189714?hl=en

strcat23• 1 month ago

GrapheneOS will eventually have a GrapheneOS RCS app, but for now RCS is fully supported via Google Messages and sandboxed Google Play:

https://grapheneos.org/usage#rcs

garciansmith• 1 month ago

Other people have noted that you can switch out the keyboard and SMS app (which I did).

My single (minor) issue with GrapheneOS is the adaptive screen brightness. On the stock Android OS on a Pixel I'd mess around with the sliders for a week or two on a new phone and then it learned what I liked. Now it has a few set values, one of which is always too dim for me in darker conditions so I have to mess with the slider each and every time. I don't believe there's a way of fixing that.

Other than that I'm glad I switched, especially when I read about new "features" they add that I know I'd hate.

hiitsmyaccount3• 1 month ago

I use GBoard on GrapheneOS. I just deny it network permission so it can't phone home.

Markoff6• 1 month ago

I do usually this, but recently on older phone (using it temporarily while I buy new) I had to reinstall it and found out, it didn't provide any word suggestions for ant language other than English and even gesture input for other languages didn't work, so at least during initial setup it must have (now?) internet connection most likely to download dictionaries (I thought they used to be included in past, never noticed this before), after allowing the connection, setting up and then disabling the connection, it works fine

Walf• 1 month ago

I used to do this but I found it downloads needed language files in the background. So every time it updated, I would clear all the app data, open it again on something innocuous, like a text file, toggle each language I used. Not knowing how long it would take, I'd wait until each seemed to be behaving, then disable network permission. I still don't trust that it doesn't send data off via Play Services.

Now I use Heliboard with the swiping library added. It's not perfect, but has improved, and at least it can give more than three correction options (long–press centre suggestion with ellipsis below).

I really miss Keymonk — two–finger swiping, accurate, and no crap.

dopidopHN22• 1 month ago

You should consider using signal as texting app?

teekert4• 1 month ago

You shall engage more with your apps, user!

mvdtnz3• 1 month ago

So I still need to buy a Google phone to get it? No thank you.

Cider998632• 1 month ago

To get a sense of the project and its goals I recommend reading this post[1].

Buying a used Pixel is economical, environmental, and likely doesn't support Google. Pixels are the only secure and open android devices that could work for the project and meet the extensive requirements[2]. This is because GrapheneOS takes real steps to protect user privacy and security, not features that degrade security and don't increase privacy. You are going to be doing much more against Google by using GrapheneOS because it comes with 0 google services by default and takes advanced steps to protect you from all apps and services you install.

If you are still not willing or able to purchase a Pixel, GrapheneOS has a partnership with Motorola to help them create compatible devices which will be available soon[3].

[1] Privacy and security on computing devices need to become far stronger to protect people from pervasive violations of their rights. https://xcancel.com/GrapheneOS/status/2044440381803069778#m

[2] https://grapheneos.org/faq#future-devices

[3] https://xcancel.com/GrapheneOS/status/2028448871374803007#m

725686• 1 month ago

Motorola is not mentioned in any of the links.

driverdan• 1 month ago

It makes sense that an open source project would focus on one series of phones since their time and resources are limited.

That said, Google's hardware is behind their competitors and they've had a lot of problems in the past few years. The Pixel 8 Pro has hardware WiFi problems, the 9 and 10 are both minor updates with prices that are far too high, the 10 is eSIM only, etc.

jesterson2• 1 month ago

Buying a used Pixel is economical, environmental, and likely doesn't support Google

Interesting. What do you think are reasons for google to run Pixel then?

Not being sarcastic here, but what links you shared (thank you) say imply there are almost no benefits for Google to run Pixels and as we all know, Google is not a company doing charities.

jordand4• 1 month ago

Only silver lining to this is they run a lot of discounts and promotions on them, and it's possible to buy them at a significant discount. Got my first Pixel 10 on a very cheap contract with trade-in promos on top, and got a second Pixel 10 at a 70% discount from the RRP.

mvdtnz3• 1 month ago

It's not possible to buy them at all where I live, even if I wanted to funnel money to Google - which I do not. I have gone to great lengths to de-Google my life.

microtonal14• 1 month ago

Watch out in the US though, apparently some carriers disable OEM Unlocking (so you cannot unlock your bootloader).

nosioptar• 1 month ago

If you buy used, you save a bundle and google gets no money from you.

I still don't want a pixel, so I went with a used ebay phone and installed lineageos.

subscribed6• 1 month ago

They have no choice at the moment, this is the ONLY hardware secure enough to even make effort in hardening the OS.

Everything else is meh, bad, or atrocious.

Next year we'll have Motorola flagship(s) to choose from. Can't wait.

jordand4• 1 month ago

I've been running GrapheneOS for 7 months now and I'm not going back. When I bought my Pixel 10 last year, I wasn't actually planning on trying Graphene for a while....until I noticed Google had force bundled a 'Wicked For Good' movie promo theme with the latest security update.

sivers2• 1 month ago

Ha! Me too! Exact same. Bought a Pixel 10. Intended to do the default Android for a while. But it was filled with ads for “Wicked” which had me looking at my phone with a sneer on my face I couldn't erase - as if someone had smeared feces all over it and threw it on my bed.

So I jumped straight to GrapheneOS, which was way easier and less extreme than I had been warned. So beautifully minimal, with no crap. Now my phone feels like a simple Linux (Void/Arch) PC. So wonderful.

jordand4• 1 month ago

We took control, we're keeping control

edwcross• 1 month ago

Does it affect the photo quality? It used to require letting go of the default photo app and thus a downgrade in photo processing.

Cub32• 1 month ago

it was filled with ads

You bought a phone from an advertising company?

OtomotO2• 1 month ago

What about banking Apps? No problem there?

Some of them have ridiculous secur... compliance rules.

teekert4• 1 month ago

iOS is also going into this direction, just open the AppStore, it’s all the cheapest most horrible apps. Temu (shop like you don't give a s* about the planet), addictive AI Waifu’s (who needs human interaction anyway), clean your stuff but fake-time-wasting style (it's free dopamine!), search option’s first hit is often scammy (ie search for MS Authenticator). I feel that Steve ("If you want pr0n get an Android") would turn around in his grave from the sight of this.

Its just a matter of time before this cesspool will leak into the rest of the OS, AppStore shows us the temptation is too big for Apple. When my iPhone 12 mini dies it’s /e/OS or GrapheneOS for me. My devices should serve me and my thoughts are my own.

theandrewbailey3• 1 month ago

When I got a new phone last year, I purposely got a Pixel (open box 9a) to put GrapheneOS on it immediately. Been happy living the de-Googled Android life since.

I was sad that I had to go through the OOBE setup on the stock image to unlock the bootloader. At least it doesn't force an internet connection and login, unlike Windows.

qurren3• 1 month ago

Is it possible to install basic Google apps like Gmail, Calendar, Maps, Drive without googlifying the whole phone?

I'm not looking to fully de-Google but I want Google as apps and not my OS.

sowbug2• 1 month ago

If it's any consolation, the wipe* requirement before unlocking the bootloader is generally a good thing, even if it's inconvenient. Someone who is targeting your personal data gets access to your encrypted phone, either by stealing it or in an evil maid situation. They unlock the bootloader and install privileged code that helps them recover the symmetric encryption key or intercept your PIN. Then they either have your data or wait for you to enter the PIN. In theory recovery shouldn't be possible (access to the key depends on a secure element that rate limits brute-force attacks), but security bugs do happen. Wiping* your data before removing the bootloader's signing requirement is an extra layer of protection.

*It doesn't actually wipe your data; it just destroys the symmetric key, making the data permanently unreadable.

Sophira3• 1 month ago

While the OOBE of the stock image doesn't force an Internet connection, the ability to unlock the bootloader does - whether you can do it or not depends on the phone manufacturer's desire, and Android for some reason uses an Internet connection to check that.

My understanding is that it is impossible to unlock the bootloader on a new recent (Android 7+ at least; possiblt earlier) Android phone until it has connected to the Internet. After that, the ability to unlock the bootloader is permanent.

RachelF• 1 month ago

I too, liked it.

However, some apps that I need for work, like Microsoft Authenticator, no longer work under GrapheneOS.

https://www.theregister.com/on-prem/2026/03/10/microsoft-tig...

Sarkie• 1 month ago

Google Authenticator works?

idiotsecant2• 1 month ago

Sounds like your work has been using your personal phone for free

eszed• 1 month ago

Yeah, I'm hanging on with GrapheneOS (on a Pixel) until their native-hardware (Motorola) phones come out, which hopefully will solve this. As I understand it, third-party (banks and so forth) app vendors have to accept their security attestation, which they don't right now, but (I hope) will with Motorola behind them.

palata• 1 month ago

Microsoft Authenticator works on my GrapheneOS (not rooted).

Gigachad2• 1 month ago

I hate how common it's become for companies to force you to install things on your personal phone. Even worse is some of them demand you install a MDM profile on your personal phone which feels 1000% over the line of reasonable.

_carbyau_2• 1 month ago

From the linked article it seems this is related to Entra accounts which are Azure cloud related.

cybertim• 1 month ago

Graphene is NOT a jailbroken/rooted OS, its a real secure unrooted, bootloader locked OS, and MS Authenticotor works just fine. If anything does not work its related to dependency of the App maker on a certain attestation google play services grapheneos.org/articles/attestation-compatibility-guide

Randomno• 1 month ago

Wicked For Good

Is this an antithesis to Don't Be Evil?

genpfault• 1 month ago

What's the app data backup/restore story on GrapheneOS?

My understanding is that even with pseudo-D2D (device-to-device) transfers Seedvault doesn't backup everything[1].

Are there more-functional, non-root, local (non-cloud) alternatives?

[1] https://github.com/seedvault-app/seedvault/wiki/FAQ#why-do-s...

lucb1e17• 1 month ago

Not without root, no

handedness15• 1 month ago

Seedvault is still woefully insufficient, but it sounds like there's work being done to replace it. I can't imagine the enterprise crowd will overlook that and I'm hoping the Motorola partnership enables faster development.

subscribed6• 1 month ago

Backup situation is absolutely awful, don't count on it.

FloatArtifact3• 1 month ago

Any issues with banking insurance or healthcare applications?

t0bia_s3• 1 month ago

Why would you use app for actual insuranceb or even healthcare?

Cider998632• 1 month ago

Banking 90+% of apps work. Some apps officially support GrapheneOS.

The vast vast majority of apps (99%+) are compatible and those that are broken is due to bugs in the apps which GOS catches, but these exploit protections can be disabled, and apps that use the monopolistic play integrity api.

The only apps that are permanently broken are those using the strongest play integrity api which is security theatre.

Here's a community created list of banking applications and their current status on GOS.

https://privsec.dev/posts/android/banking-applications-compa...

edm0nd• 1 month ago

Chase bank app wont even load on my GrapheneOS lol

yogthos• 1 month ago

Same, I've got a Pixel 9 and GrapheneOS works perfectly on it. I really love having full control over the OS on my phone and being able to decide what actually runs on it.

sharts2• 1 month ago

Makes you wonder who are clown employees coming up with these nonsense decisions

nsonha2• 1 month ago

would it have the desktop mode and linux terminal? That's the only reason I'm eyeing a Pixel

a022311• 1 month ago

Yep, I've used both. Desktop mode isn't exactly there yet, but hopefully with the general availability it will get with Android 17, it'll smoothen out. As for the Linux terminal I ended up sticking with a fork which provides a few extra features (https://github.com/outlawsanzhang/koiTerminal)

samplatt• 1 month ago

How's the P10 camera on graphene? Literally 90% of the reason I'm on a pixel is because I love the low-light smarts that the camera software has, but I don't know if I'll lose that with Graphene.

Aissen• 1 month ago

You can install the Google Camera, if you use sandboxed Google Play. It has all the same features AFAIK.

Itoldmyselfso3• 1 month ago

It works exactly the same as in the original "Pixel OS", you just install the same camera app from Play store.

allthetime2• 1 month ago

I want to run graphene but I make android apps and need to test on device with a somewhat standard setup… login with google, etc. is this reasonable to do with graphene?

nicce• 1 month ago

Hmm, you should have cheaper and separate phone for work anyway?

toxicunderGroov• 1 month ago

I'd get a 2nd phone for that and it never leaves the house/location - living inside a bag with conductive material

Cider998632• 1 month ago

Yes, GOS has excellent compatibility with Google. The play services are sandboxed like a normal app and work great.

HybridStatAnim812• 1 month ago

Yes. GrapheneOS maintains 99% app compatibility, and the 1% that is lacking is due to apps using incredibly misguided and nonsensical "antiabuse" mechanisms.

GrapheneOS is often better for testing apps due to it being trivial to test with and without google services, most of the hardening options can be used for debugging and provide a crash log to determine what failed, and there is an easily accessible log viewer available in app info.

bigiain3• 1 month ago

Memories of Apple force pushing a U2 album to everyone's iPod (or maybe iPhone) back in the day.

IdiotSavage• 1 month ago

Or the more recent memory of the F1 ad pushed via the wallet app.

LeoPanthera• 1 month ago

That was a hilariously tone-deaf incident, but it's hardly comparable. Google pushed ads. Apple gave you a free album.

nicman23• 1 month ago

yeah the pixel 10 pro - which i have - only saving grace is graphene..

amelius• 1 month ago

Happy GrapheneOS user here too since 2+ years now.

Small point of critique: it would be nice if it was a little bit easier to switch between personas, for example by simply scrolling to a different workspace. Because now the feature is mostly unused on my phone.

mFixman• 1 month ago

What's the status of banking apps, Google / Microsoft authenticator, and Google Wallet? Those were the things preventing me from abandoning stock Android.

herrherrmann• 1 month ago

You can check this crowdsourced list for the compatibility of banking apps: https://github.com/PrivSec-dev/privsec.dev/blob/main/content...

Authenticators should work normally, as far as I know (unless Google Authenticator does anything special). Can’t say anything about Google Wallet. There might be more lists/forums where people share which setups are (not) working well for them.

In general, I had these concerns as well until a few months ago. But I am much more optimistic these days that things will just work well out of the box (have read many positive sentiments in blog posts and here on Hacker News).

synergy20• 1 month ago

hold on, are you saying graphenos has no ads everywhere? I need swap it in then

aaron_m042• 1 month ago

[...] until I noticed Google had force bundled a 'Wicked For Good' movie promo theme with the latest security update.

This is how users learn to not update anything.

chuckadams• 1 month ago

Won't matter when they force the updates anyway. You think that's your phone?

ddejohn• 1 month ago

What are you using for cell service? Been wanting to switch to GOS for years, but I've also been really uninterested in having to find a new service provider (currently using fi).

lucb1e17• 1 month ago

The post doesn't say - what's new? Anything to look forward to besides the security patches for A17 being available for longer than they will be for A16?

Asking as an A11 user who will probably soon need to switch to a new device. I haven't noticed anything on other people's phones that isn't available on mine, including on my work phone that runs an up-to-date GrapheneOS (but I don't need to do much more than calling and 2FA, so I might just not be seeing it). Anything you guys are excited for, or any protips of things to check out that were released recently?

Cider998632• 1 month ago

Desktop mode is new and exciting.

This should have the full list; it's not a ton of changes, which speaks to how perfected Android has become.

https://android-developers.googleblog.com/2026/06/Android-17...

jayd16• 1 month ago

New garbage collector could be pretty big.

lucb1e17• 1 month ago

Ah, right I forgot they are discontinuing ChromeOS. Makes sense that current Android releases are focused on getting the Android laptop experience on par

Edit: not discontinued but 'merge with Android' https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ChromeOS

em3rgent0rdr• 1 month ago

Presumably any new Android 17 features that aren't counter to GrapheneOS's mission, such as "Bubbles allows you to turn any app into a compact, floating window" https://blog.google/products-and-platforms/platforms/android...

lucb1e17• 1 month ago

Does GrapheneOS run on tablets? I don't see a whole chat app (shown in the example) fitting on my phone screen alongside something like a web browser, and the screenshot is from a square screen

lifeisgood99• 1 month ago

What are North American people doing for replacing contactless payment? Last time I checked, the solution was to use Curve but it only works for Europe.

OsrsNeedsf2P• 1 month ago

Putting my credit card in my phone case

carlmr• 1 month ago

Garmin pay if you're ok with Garmin is one possibility.

wolvoleo11• 1 month ago

They have an app for Android that can do NFC? I thought it was only for their watches. Thanks!

lucb1e17• 1 month ago

It's even available in my country! Never heard of it, would have assumed it's not being sold here. Let's see what that costs when I click the "shop now" button that's front and center

Attention required!
Sorry, you have been blocked
The action you just performed triggered the security solution. There are several actions that could trigger this block including submitting a certain word or phrase, a SQL command or malformed data.

Thanks cloudflare *handshake* garmin. I suppose I'll stay with chip and pin for now

mendelmaleh2• 1 month ago

They don't support amex or capital one, the two I use the most...

mrbluecoat• 1 month ago

I don't. GrapheneOS is worth the effort of pulling a card out of my wallet.

hparadiz6• 1 month ago

It's infuriating that they won't do this for non Google Android. It's in the best interest of both the bank and the card owner. Credential theft risk goes down to basically zero when backed by a fingerprint authenticated virtual card.

gvurrdon2• 1 month ago

In general I'd agree.

Curve demand a "video selfie" and I've never been comfortable with sending companies such biometric data.

jcul• 1 month ago

I'm in Europe, but I had accepted that I had to do without. I hadn't heard of curve, going to check that out.

400thecat• 1 month ago

the Play store reviews for Curve are attrocious, especially the most recent ones. Looks like Curve is absolutely unusable, for many reasons

kQq9oHeAz6wLLS• 1 month ago

I have these cards I keep in my (RFID-blocking) wallet, one for each credit account. Then I just pull them out and tap to pay. It's super convenient - no app required!

Cider998632• 1 month ago

What does RFID-blocking wallet do?

drnick19• 1 month ago

There is no replacement. Strap a credit card to the back of your phone or pay cash.

fc417fc802• 1 month ago

Use a solvent to dissolve the plastic from the card then epoxy the extracted antenna and chip innards to the back of your phone case. Problem solved. (I'm only 50% joking, you can actually do this but maybe epoxy isn't the best option.)

Saris2• 1 month ago

Cash for most things, and just use a card like normal otherwise.

I don't really see the appeal of contactless payment, pulling a card out really doesn't take much time.

preisschild6• 1 month ago

Just having to take your phone with you is quite comfortable. Your phone is probably the pocket-sized item you are unlikeliest to lose.

mixmastamyk• 1 month ago

Cards are "contactless payment" these days.

eipi10_hn3• 1 month ago

Google Pay (Google Wallet) actually also has virtual number so my real card number won't leak in many cases.

orthoxerox• 1 month ago

I am not North American, but instead of Google Pay I use my bank's app for contactless payments.

pona-a3• 1 month ago

There are a few other banks running their own NFC payment systems, like Swedbank in my country.

iririririr2• 1 month ago

permanent reminder that graphene and all other "alternatives to android" depend on extracted binary blobs. tons of them. which is the reason new (kernel) versions are such a chore/achievement.

strcat23• 1 month ago

The kernel drivers are fully open source and moving to new kernel branches is a standard part of the update process. Pixels are currently moving from 6.1 and 6.6 to 6.12 with Android 17 QPR2. This is part of the hardware requirements for GrapheneOS listed here:

https://grapheneos.org/faq#future-devices

fsflover11• 1 month ago

Are you saying that GraphebneOS running on Google Pixels has no proprietary blobs apart from the firmware?

iririririr2• 1 month ago

sigh. always this reply. go look at all the binary blobs in the source tree. you won't get modem, video out, touch, etc etc etc working without extracting eom drivers as binary.

also, there's ZERO mentions of drivers or binary blobs on that link!

arikrahman• 1 month ago

Couldn't be happier using this on an old Nord Oneplus N10. Had to look around since it was out of date but thankfully they have archived builds.

theandrewbailey3• 1 month ago

We've already tested the Android 17 port of GrapheneOS on the Pixel 6a, 7, 7a, 8, 10a, 10 and 10 Pro Fold.

No love for 9 or 9a? I guess it's still coming eventually.

- A 9a owner running GrapheneOS

Cider998632• 1 month ago

https://grapheneos.social/@GrapheneOS/116761945417419946

Those are just the devices we initially tested it on which mainly has to do with which devices were available to the people working on the port.
To clarify the 2nd paragraph, we've ported GrapheneOS to Android 17 for all of the supported devices. That's a list of the devices we already built and tested it. Our initial public release will be available for all the supported devices and we'll have tested it on each by then.

Cider998632• 1 month ago

I've been thinking it might be worthwhile to showcase that you can make GrapheneOS look beautiful or the same as stock Pixel UI. When I was considering switching from iPhone I had this misconception that it would look ugly or wouldn't look the same as Pixel UI, which is not the case at all. When I asked about it I wasn't given this clearcut answer that you can make GrapheneOS UI look the same or better than Pixel UI.

ebbi2• 1 month ago

How much flexibility is there in changing appearance?

As an iPhone user, I really like what Oppo is doing with their ColorOS: https://www.oppo.com/nz/coloros16/

Cider998632• 1 month ago

Wow that looks nice. I don't think you can get that.

You can change any apps to different apps meaning the keyboard, homescreen/launcher, messaging app. The launcher is a primary UI thing which is different from iOS and is totally customizable by just installing a new app.

So you can change the look of anything that depends on an app, but stuff like the control center, lock screen, volume sliders, connectivity icons, notifications afaict can't be changed.

https://niagaralauncher.com is a cool looking launcher that I used to use.

It's a little confusing but I'll say there's nothing ugly like the stock GOS apps that can't be changed and tha unchangeably UI elements match the Pixel UI.

Here's a comparison which will show both the unchangable stuff like control center, but also the Pixel launcher, which you can swap out.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lwNicPJk4lY

I switched from iPhone and once I installed good looking apps I really prefer the look to iOS because it's a lot faster and smoother.

darkteflon• 1 month ago

~Happy iPhone user for almost 20 (!) years. This has got me seriously thinking about picking up a Pixel.

Cub32• 1 month ago

I feel like you'd be taking on a lot of pain for no real benefits though?

portly• 1 month ago

I did this half a year ago and it was fine for me. One of the benefits is of course privacy. For instance, I noticed that ads get completely out of touch which proved to me that I'm being tracked less.

Also never have that feeling anymore that my phone is spying on me.

tcfhgj5• 1 month ago

real benefits: being able to install free software

Ingon• 1 month ago

I've been running GrapheneOS for over an year now. Bought a Pixel 6a last year as a cheap way to test waters, but pretty soon I upgraded to discounted Pixel 9. It took a while to set the basics (coming from iPhone), and I'm still have a couple of stuff missing, but at this point don't intend to use anything else (for as long as possible).

The biggest hurdles for me were - should I use separate profiles and how to get apps. Initially, I started with a separate profile for google stuff (like play store/services and apps downloaded from there, like Viber), but eventually I moved everything to the owner profile (and took a bit of a privacy and battery hit in the matter of convenience). Still, being able to control many app permissions, gives me a good state of mind that apps are not doing more then I expect.

Just looked at what android 17 brings to the table and I'm mildly excited - especially improving performance and adding more permissions (like ACCESS_LOCAL_NETWORK)

handedness15• 1 month ago

I made the same mistake after being burned by the PinePhone, buying a heavily discounted Pixel 6 to test various Android forks, which eventually included GrapheneOS. I quickly knew I'd found home upgraded to a 9 Pro XL.

Peacefulz• 1 month ago

I started rebuilding my phone from factory tonight, and I opted for the private profile partition inside of the main profile for my play store apps. It's accomplishing everything I wanted a fully separate profile to do without the hard switch.

jp57• 1 month ago

What does it mean for an OS to be ported to another OS? Do they mean "ported to devices that support Android"?

tripdout• 1 month ago

Well, both, probably. GrapheneOS requires a lot of framework and device side changes.

GranPC• 1 month ago

It means they rebased all their changes on top of the new version. This is usually time-consuming because AOSP is not developed in the open, so you can't do this incrementally as things change -- you just get a massive drop sometime after release.

okanat3• 1 month ago

Android makes yearly releases. It is developed in cathedral-style. Google releases the source as a single big update. GrapheneOS is a fork. They need to port their customizations and extra software on top of the new release.

microtonal14• 1 month ago

Every six months, not yearly. Google releases the major version and QPR2 as part of AOSP. QPR1 and QPR3 are Pixel-only.

Since they switched to QPRs and Pixel drops, major releases have become less important because feature roll out throughout the year. It's just that nobody outside GrapheneOS and Samsung (to my knowledge) rolls out QPR2, so for non-Pixel/Samsung, the major releases are... major.

I think another major source of work for GrapheneOS is when Google releases QPR1 and QPR3, because GrapheneOS had to rebase the driver/firmware changes on top of QPR0/QPR2.

floxy• 1 month ago

Think of GrapheneOS as being a set of patches on top of the Android Open Source Project that Google releases:

https://source.android.com/

They've ported the patches to work on top of the latest release.

strcat23• 1 month ago

It's a fork of the Android Open Source Project (AOSP) with major privacy/security improvements and alternatives to Google apps/services. The massive set of changes needs to be ported to new major versions of AOSP.

The apps also need to be updated to the Android 17 target API level but that can happen over several months following the OS itself being ported to it. The app aspect is something all Android developers need to deal with due to new target API levels bringing backwards incompatible improvements.

seabombs2• 1 month ago

I had been using LineageOS + microG for many years on my Pixel 3. I upgraded to a Pixel 8 and tried out GrapheneOS and the install experience was good, but I found some odd performance quirks - apps would be slow to install and run, downloads were slow, etc. Has anyone had similar issues?

Many apps that work on microG don't work in GrapheneOS without installing Google services anyway. I'm by no means across the full privacy implications, but my feeling is microG balances privacy and usability better for me.

I've since switched back to LineageOS+microG and am happy with it. Just my experience.

lucb1e17• 1 month ago

A lot of developers are lured into building in a dependency on Google services, so yes you'll need microG or, as GrapheneOS prefers, the original Google code running on your device for those apps to function. Or patch the app, like Langis does for Signal (not necessary for it to function without Google in this case, but it removes its calling out to Google's apps and services for those who don't want that). If you're happy with that setup and don't need protect-from-the-government levels of security (street thugs aren't going to ransomware your device by abusing an unlocked bootloader or send exploit chains that work on anything but the hardened allocator), LineageOS is probably the better choice for you. GrapheneOS has some nice things like easily denying the network permission for an app (even if they could theoretically work around it with intents) and having a custom A-GNSS server, but you can do the same on LineageOS by using root and something like AFWall+ for the network and configuring Graphene's A-GNSS (SUPL) proxy in the system settings (don't forget to donate if you use it and are able)

gruez2• 1 month ago

but you can do the same on LineageOS by using root and something like AFWall+ for the network

lineageos has built-in firewall for years now. no need for afwall.

HybridStatAnim812• 1 month ago

GrapheneOS is designed for everyone, including average users. It does not require a high threat model, and the features it provides are not only useful to people with high threat models.

Contrary to popular belief, exploitation of vulnerable devices is a lot more common, and a lot easier than people pretend it is. You dont need to be targeted either, mass exploitation can, has, and will occur.

LineageOS does not have privacy, security, or usability comparable to GrapheneOS. LineageOS is missing many important features and falls behind android updates. GrapheneOS will be the far better choice in all 3 of these categories.

The features GrapheneOS provides, such as the network permission, cannot be replicated with a firewall app. The network permission properly covers all forms of network access for an app, where firewall apps do not have the ability to prevent all network communication. They are leaky.

The AGNSS servers and proxies are very, very tiny aspects of what GrapheneOS provides. You would be losing out on many more high impact privacy, security, and usability features.

Root access and an unlocked bootloader are insecure, even for low threat models. These devices are vulnerable and should not be used for any sensitive data.

LineageOS is not the better choice for any privacy, security, or usability usecases relative to GrapheneOS.

gruez2• 1 month ago

but I found some odd performance quirks - apps would be slow to install and run, downloads were slow, etc. Has anyone had similar issues?

not sure about downloads specifically, but app installs are slow because grapheneos forces AOT compilation (JIT is disabled), presumably for security reasons.

seabombs2• 1 month ago

Ah that makes sense, thanks!

phreack• 1 month ago

That Motorola phone that lets you install Graphene can not come soon enough. Pixel phones are not sold worldwide so it feels like they're gatekeeping security. I know that's not the case really, but there's very few ways to successfully degoogle otherwise.

okanat3• 1 month ago

AFAIK Motorola only lets certain geographical regions to unlock bootloader, not everywhere.

tom_alexander• 1 month ago

They're referring to the partnership between GrapheneOS and Motorola: https://motorolanews.com/motorola-three-new-b2b-solutions-at...

matheusmoreira2• 1 month ago

Pixel phones are not sold worldwide

Still boggles my mind the fact Google doesn't sell their phones worldwide. Obtaining a Pixel has proven to be quite difficult for me.

dakolli• 1 month ago

It still boggles my mind that the most popular privacy OS requires Google manufactured hardware, that fact alone makes me not trust it at all.

wraptile2• 1 month ago

Not only obtaining but if you ever need warranty you're done. Just last week I went to a Samsung center and had my fold 6 fixed in 30 minutes, and these centers are everywhere around the world. Same thing with Apple, yet a 4.5 trillion dollar company can't ship and maintain a phone globally. It's so unserious.

NamlchakKhandro• 1 month ago

This is a thing now

https://volla.online/en/operating-systems/volla-os/

lucb1e17• 1 month ago

I don't see anything they offer for security that's not also in AOSP/LineageOS/eOS/stock/etc.

Which is not to say that's not enough for most people, but why highlight them? It doesn't seem comparable to the laser-focus GrapheneOS has on security

microtonal14• 1 month ago

Posting about Volla in a GrapheneOS thread is... I guess courageous?

They are kind of the opposite of GrapheneOS. Ancient kernel trees, ancient firmware bundles, etc. And since downstreams like /e/OS just take their kernels/firmware, they are ancient as well. Using Volla phones opens you up to a lot of known vulnerabilities.

Besides that, Volla is basically a marketing company (with some external contractors) that does Eurowashing. E.g. one of their phones (Quintus) is a phone designed by an Emirates company, produced by a Chinese ODM, marked up by 500 Euro by Volla (they probably turn some screws and flash the firmware to be able to call it 'from Germany'. You can get the same 719 Euro phone here for ~160 Euro:

https://www.amazon.ae/Android-Smartphone-Storage-Octa-Core-M...

I don't understand why people do free promotion for Volla, given that they are mostly snake oil salesmen.

strcat23• 1 month ago

Those are much less private and secure than the Android Open Source Project on Pixels without the major privacy and security improvements of GrapheneOS. Those aren't privacy or security hardened devices.

xvedejas4• 1 month ago

I just moved away from GrapheneOS to Motorola because I decided I needed an audio jack again. There's definitely some annoying things about leaving, but at least now I can use again the three apps that didn't work for me on GrapheneOS...

ccppurcell• 1 month ago

Which phone and is it android then? Maybe I'm out of the loop on Motorola. I just bought a pixel, thinking of trying graphene. I was a bit miffed about the lack of jack until my partner pointed out I hadn't used the one on my old phone for over a year. I'd like to in the future though.

StingyJelly• 1 month ago

I use usb-c dac and it is honestly fine. you can get one with charging bypass and keep that one with the charger

timedude2• 1 month ago

Which apps didnt work?

Lucasoato• 1 month ago

Since grapheneOS only supports latest Google pixel phones, I tried installing LineageOS on my Mi11. Sadly, if you own a Xiaomi, you can’t just install another os. You need to unlock the bootloader and Xiomi limits you with a global quota of daily unlocked phones, you basically need to enter at midnight and hope. This is a complete nonsense, we have zero governance on our devices after paying them so much.

MinimalAction2• 1 month ago

Well, for some reason Pixel 9 series and also 10 pro is excluded?

dredmorbius4• 1 month ago

<https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=48563154>

MinimalAction2• 1 month ago

What's the biggest draw of GrapheneOS apart from de-googling? Does it have a better battery life? And compliance with NFC payments?

eipi10_hn3• 1 month ago

It will depend on your banks/services. If those apps strictly implement Play Integrity API, you won't be able to use them on Graphene OS

mmooss4• 1 month ago

Greatly improved privacy and security and end-user control of your phone and its data. In those areas, possibly the best option, though iPhones might be better in security (not necessarily the other two areas) - Apple has a slightly bigger budget and a few more engineers, and directly controls the hardware.

strcat23• 1 month ago

GrapheneOS exists to greatly improve the privacy and security of an existing open source OS project. Android Open Source Project has good privacy and security as a starting point.

Pixels provide strong hardware and firmware security. Pixels have made multiple significant hardware and firmware level improvements based on recommendations by GrapheneOS. GrapheneOS now has a hardware partnership with Motorola Mobility which includes working with Qualcomm. It isn't only a software project.

Regularly leaked data on the capabilities of Cellebrite show they have the least success with GrapheneOS by far despite specifically hiring for it based on their job postings.

goda90• 1 month ago

If you actually degoogle, supposedly battery life is better but if you start adding back in sandboxed play services, you lose some of the gains.

llarsson2• 1 month ago

The ability to sandbox Google Play Services (if you need it, but realistically, you probably do) and to simply not assign it more permissions than it absolutely needs is awesome. I run it with very restricted permissions, where it by default requests every single permission it can. In stock Android, it has all those, and you can't limit it. Just that is worth it for me.

saint_yossarian• 1 month ago

For me it's the added security features: per-app network permissions, scoped storage/contacts permissions, and a bunch of system hardening measures.

dopidopHN22• 1 month ago

Graphene made me like using a phone. It behave like a computer. Really lovely

preisschild6• 1 month ago

I can say the same. Been using LineageOS and GrapheneOS for most of my life. Some things are not super convenient (I generally dont install non-free-software applications and don't have Google Play services enabled), but the rest of the experience is great. No crashes, no bugs, no unexpected behavior. Currently I'm using the Pixel 9 Pro XL.

I can also recommend Gadgetbridge for BLE smartwatch integration.

anonymousiam5• 1 month ago

I took the plunge into GrapheneOS a week ago. I picked up a new Pixel10 Pro and never even tried the stock OS (except to unlock the boot loader).

I've got almost everything working the way I want. There were a few non-essential banking apps that won't install. The most annoying problem I had is when I tried to install Strava, which I cannot get working. The app installs, but it will not let me sign in. I guess I need a replacement, because I use that app a lot.

binarin2• 1 month ago

The most hilarious is McDonald's app - it refuses to work without Play Integrity check. I wonder what braindamaged reasoning is behind this. Do they want to position themselves as a bank or something?

domh• 1 month ago

Huh, it works just fine in the UK. Wonder if they have different builds (or completely different apps) for different regions. Or maybe it's the GrapheneOS compatibility layer that makes it work? Not sure.

pona-a3• 1 month ago

I recall a year or so ago, there's been a story about someone hacking McDonalds loyalty program, with that app doing something stupid like storing your balance on the client or something. It seems instead of firing whatever offshore sweatshop that made that, they just doubled down on "mitigations".

drnick19• 1 month ago

What would anyone use an app to order food from McDonald's? Just walk into the restaurant, pay cash, and walk out with the food.

bhelkey2• 1 month ago

Fastfood apps typically offer deals to new customers.

I suspect this is an attempt to prevent folks from spinning up many new accounts to get these deals.

QuantumGood2• 1 month ago

Also on the homepage: "Volkswagen started blocking GrapheneOS users"

  https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=48571526

flaburgan6• 1 month ago

I know a friend is using Strava on his Pixel 10 running graphene so there should be a way

anonymousiam5• 1 month ago

There should be a way, but I have not yet found it, and I've spent some time on this. I've installed/uninstalled Strava about a dozen times, rebooted each time, tried various permissions, but stood my ground on some of the permissions. Should I give Strava access to my photos and my microphone? I'll never go that far.

haltcatchfire• 1 month ago

I run Strava on my Pixel 10 Pro Fold running GrapheneOS. IIRC you need to have Google Play Store installed (with zero permissions, preferably) to make Strava work.

anonymousiam5• 1 month ago

Both Google Play Store and Google Play Services are installed, with minimal permissions. Strava still does not work.

drnick19• 1 month ago

"Strava is an American internet service for tracking physical exercise which incorporates social networking features."

Sounds like spyware, to be honest.

physicles• 1 month ago

I don’t know about the company’s ethics*, but the app is fine and it’s genuinely useful. For one thing, it has a map with the most popular running routes around you. And if you want to be part of an exercise community in the US or Europe (at least UK), it’s the only game in town. *Strava is one of the worst apps I’ve seen in terms of aggressively upselling you to a subscription. Genuinely infuriating.

sergiotapia• 1 month ago

I own a z fold 6.

If I try Graphene what do I lose? Similar to how if you use something like icefox or icewolf one of those very secure browser, lots of normie websites like banking just straight up don't work. What would I lose by moving away from samsung's default to this more private OS?

eipi10_hn3• 1 month ago

You can't install Graphene OS on Samsung phones.

mmooss4• 1 month ago

GOS won't install? It's blocked somehow? Or it's not officially supported?

Bridgexapi• 1 month ago

I run GrapheneOS now 2 year :) always working fine

veidr• 1 month ago

I have always wondered what this OS looks like. They have an incredibly detailed website with zero screenshots.

jesterson2• 1 month ago

Perhaps screenshots and sleek UI is not their selling point (and it isn't).

fylo• 1 month ago

One mans sleek ui is another's trash fire

dredmorbius4• 1 month ago

There are numerous video walkthroughs of GrapheneOS. This would be one starting point:

<https://redirect.invidious.io/watch?v=aNgupWEV13M>

Visually, it generally looks much like stock Android in terms of capabilities, though a stock install generally has far fewer apps installed.

dredmorbius4• 1 month ago

Clarifying, a stock install of GrapheneOS has far fewer apps.

Itoldmyselfso3• 1 month ago

It's valid question for people unfamiliar with the project, but it is the AOSP in terms of looks, GrapheneOS does not customize the UI in any way beyond what their own features require as additions. Note that Pixel OS is not AOSP. The default home app of course also influences the experience quite the bit unless you replace it, which is what I'd personally recommend everyone to do as it's so incredibly barebones. Lawnchair is already a big step up as an open source alternative.

drnick19• 1 month ago

It looks very plain (black background, monochrome icons, very few apps included). You can customize all that if you want. I personally quite like the default appearance, but I am also the kind of person who uses the default GNOME or KDE theme on Linux and does not bother with custom themes or anything beyond daily Bing wallpapers.

aussieguy12342• 1 month ago

With Google making side loading extremely difficult soon, there's never been a better time to switch to a more secure OS for your phone.

There are some apps I can't do without like ReThink DNS, NewPipe and other open source apps which I use regularly. All would get blocked under Googles new regime.

microtonal14• 1 month ago

Rethink DNS is in the Play Store though:

https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.celzero.br...

aussieguy12342• 1 month ago

Its there. Before rethink I used DNS66 which is similar. Only available on F-Droid.

Occasionally, these play store versions of apps are heavily watered down. Termux is an example. Always get that from F-Droid, not the play store version.

seany• 1 month ago

GrapheneOS would be so much more interesting if there was an official supported way for rooting it. That's the only reason I haven't switched to it on my several devices (all rooted)

drewfax• 1 month ago

That completely goes against what they're working towards. I understand why you would want to root your own phone, but GOS is targeting highest security standards and root ain't one of them (for good reason).

flexxxxxxxxxer3• 1 month ago

But in that case why you would need to use GrapheneOS at all? Without security you cant have privacy and OS with security as priority cant just add hole in the system because it would allow to bypass all security features added on top of AOSP and AOSP features too. Most features people use root for can be achieved without root by modifying Android Framework itself with SystemUI/Settings app

If you wish so you can gain root privileges on your own in your own build or with modifying GrapheneOS existing builds. It wont be compatible with GrapheneOS provided updates because of signature mismatch

preisschild6• 1 month ago

They value privacy and security. Allowing userspace apps to completely circumvent Android's permission system massively weakens both.

fsflover11• 1 month ago

If you value freedom to do what you want on your devices, then you may want to consider Librem 5 instead. It runs a desktop Debian derivative with full root access.

skorp012• 1 month ago

You have the ability to do what you want on your device. Root access in AOSP is just used as a hacky shortcut to achieving specific functionality. To do it properly while maintaining the security model would be to build it into the OS itself. The same concept applies to desktop platforms and the Librem 5. This isn't related to freedom.

That device, and the Debian derivative it runs, are not private or secure.

mmooss4• 1 month ago

From Google's Android 17 release:

... Android 17 expands the capabilities of AppFunctions, a platform API with a corresponding Jetpack library. It allows you to contribute your app's unique capabilities as orchestratable "tools" for Android MCP, the on-device equivalent of the Model Context Protocol. AI agents and assistants (like Google Gemini) can discover and execute AppFunctions to perform workflows on behalf of the user with direct access to the app's local state.

Is that implemented in GOS? How is that done securely - giving LLMs power to control some apps?

madduci• 1 month ago

I wish they supported much more phones

flexxxxxxxxxer3• 1 month ago

Only Google Pixel’s and Fairphone’s currently provide bare minimum for 3rd-party OS support: working verified boot with user-provided signing keys. None of the other phones doing that yet

Fairphone cant be supported because it does not keep up with Android updates and in particular Linux kernel updates. Currently supported Fairphone’s have EOL (outdated, not supported) Linux kernel version. They are bad in terms of other aspects like lack of MTE, lack of USB port(s) control from software level on hardware level (Pixel 6 and newer have that), etc. You cant have privacy without security

But in 2027 this may change due to Motorola and GrapheneOS partnership

strcat23• 1 month ago

There are a lot of devices with the ability to install another OS and lock the device with verified boot, but none with the required updates and security features other than Pixels. Fairphones are near the bottom for security among the available options.

It's not one of the main issues with their devices but Fairphone has had a lot of issues with verified boot including using publicly available sample private keys for signing firmware and OS images across multiple device generations. It's not a strength of their devices.

bigiain3• 1 month ago

I have two questions, if anyone has any advice.

1) What's a reasonable Pixel phone to buy to try out GrapheneOS? Is a 128GB Pixel 7 "good enough" or will I get a significantly better experience with a newer phone and/or more storage?

2) Is there a Graphene alternative that would let me de-google an Samsung A12? Back in the day I had some Galaxy S3 and S4 phones that I installed Lineage on, I have no idea if that's compatible to Graphene and/or still a going thing?

silasdavis• 1 month ago

1) I'm typing this in a pixel 7 pro running grapheneos. I'd say these are plenty good enough. Device support is pretty solid compared to cyanogenmod of previous times. App installation is a bit slow using sandboxed play store. Not sure why that is.

strcat23• 1 month ago

For security reasons, GrapheneOS uses ahead-of-time compilation for apps. The stock OS compiles the heavily used parts of the code dynamically in-memory and then does partial ahead-of-time compilation later in the background. The install-time compilation will become more asynchronous in the future so the app can be used right away.

floreen• 1 month ago

I would suggest Pixel 8 series or later, since they get 7 years (instead of 5) of updates, which is also decisive for Graphene support duration.

atollk• 1 month ago

Any phone that is good enough with stock Android for your case is good enough with Graphene. If you really just want to try it out, it's the cheapest old Pixel *a you can find.

Checking which phones are supported by Lineage and Graphene can be done by everyone in a matter of minutes.

pomian• 1 month ago

We Have been successfully using graphene on a pixel 4 plus, 5 plus and a 6pro. They all work. Very well. They were cheap to buy. Super easy to install graphene (remember they have a very easy stepu by step process, takes about 10 minutes) It's a good way to test and see if you like it. Truly amazing operating system. Simple and beautiful control of your apps and their behaviors.

4gotunameagain2• 1 month ago

If you want to try it out, you can easily buy an 8a for like 250 euros used. 128GB is certainly good enough, unless you plan on migrating your mp3 library to it or you take a lot of videos. My only qualms is the lack of SD card, for the aforementioned mp3s.

And trust me you'll like it ;)

koziserek2• 1 month ago

299CHF for pixel 9a NEW in my local electronics webstore - the only difference between this and 10a is increased level of flatness of newer one..z

throawayonthe4• 1 month ago

1) any currently-supported device is good, but i'd say go for minimum pixel 8a if you can

it ships with Memory Tagging Extensions (armv9 security feature) and two more years of support than previous generations; pixel 7 might be eol in oct 2027 https://grapheneos.org/faq#device-lifetime

official recommendation page: https://grapheneos.org/faq#recommended-devices

2) there is no real graphene alternative for other devices. I would say DivestOS at least made sane compromises to support less secure devices, but it's unfortunately defunct now. Yes lineage is still around and still the go-to clean 'ROM' but far from security focused. just avoid stuff like /e/ os

bigiain3• 1 month ago

Thanks! (And thanks to the others responding here too.)

flaburgan6• 1 month ago

What are the reasons to avoid /e/, according to you? (And not according to the GrapheneOS maintainer).

flaburgan6• 1 month ago

Pixel 7 is definitely good enough if you don't have special needs. I'm writing this from a 6a right now.

lanycrost• 1 month ago

I have tried ubuntu on mobile only once and never come back, because it had very bad and poor experience compared to native experience of that mobile. On which models this system works the best?

strcat23• 1 month ago

GrapheneOS is highly usable and compatible with nearly all Android apps. It has a similar experience to a mainstream Android OS if you choose to set it up that way such as using sandboxed Google Play in the main profile (which does not ruin what it provides at all, it's a perfectly valid setup). The purpose of GrapheneOS is to provide far better privacy and security than the Android Open Source Project (AOSP). AOSP is a lot more private and secure than a traditional desktop OS including one ported to mobile.

See https://grapheneos.org/faq#recommended-devices for the device recommendations. There are going to be Motorola devices with GrapheneOS support within a year too.

dmos622• 1 month ago

Makes me sad, because I can't make the jump until I know my banking and related essential apps will work.

strcat23• 1 month ago

See https://privsec.dev/posts/android/banking-applications-compa... for banking apps. Anything that's not a banking or government app is extremely likely to work. Very few other apps ban using a non-Google-certified OS and that's the only significant reason for incompatibilities. GrapheneOS has a per-app exploit protection compatibility mode to work around memory corruption bugs caught by the features. It's in the process of overhauling the secure spawning feature to avoid tripping rare anti-tampering measures in certain banking apps. Play Integrity is increasingly the only compatibility issue. Some apps using Play Integrity have explicitly permitted GrapheneOS though.

StrLght2• 1 month ago

In terms of apps, I fully believe it will only get worse from here: Google’s trajectory has been pretty hostile, and third‑party developers tend to follow it.

That’s why I have two phones. One runs GrapheneOS and is my daily driver; the other (considerably less private and secure) stays at home connected to my server so I can always scrcpy into it.

heyheyhouhou• 1 month ago

I had the same idea in mind, would you mind sharing how you do it? I also use 2 phones, GrapheneOS as my daily, another phone at home just with banking stuff and some other crappy apps.

Few questions if you dont mind answering: - do you have to keep the phone screen switched on? - Do you access via VNC? - Can you access it from another phone? is it usable?

Thanks!

aembleton• 1 month ago

Might be worth switching banks

CivBase• 1 month ago

I refuse to ever use a banking app on my phone, so I don't even know if my bank's app would work. But every other app I've tried to use works just fine on GraphineOS.

If you've confirmed your banking app won't work on GOS, have you considered accessing your bank's website through your phone's browser instead?

konstmonst• 1 month ago

A pity that GrapheneOS works only on Pixel and those phones are trash for me (no microsd support). I have a 1.5 tb microsd card with all media/books and it is easy to move to another phone by just swapping the microsd card so this is one of the most important features for me.

preisschild6• 1 month ago

Do you not encrypt the microSD card?

netfortius• 1 month ago

Been toying with the idea for a long time, but I'm concerned about US financial institution apps and multiple countries specific apps (local transport, finance, medical and governmental), whose apks do no exist, as well as (crucial for me, as a heavy international traveler) google voice. For a lot such I now need to use a combo of Google playstore, for US account tied apps, and Aurora for non US apps.

drnick19• 1 month ago

You will find that a lot of banks and other companies have old fashioned websites that open work better (and more privately) than apps. Even Google Voice should be usable through its website. However what is usually recommended by the Graphene community is to call or text via Signal instead.

aaravchen2• 23 days ago

As a long time Graphene OS user, I can tell you they don't. Almost no banks or credit card companies have a decent website even, let alone one that can replace thier apps.

So far I've yet to encounter any that have passkeys that could speed up the login process, and by using the website you've now fallen back to thier most involved login. You will have to login, then usually answer some security questions or complete a capture, then get the SMS code they sent you. Every time. For async notifications, some banks support emailing or texting you, but it tends to be poor. Hopefully you don't have one of the credit cards like Citi or Amex, which require you to verify flagged purchases via thier app. Otherwise it's a 10+ minute process to do it via phone call, and you have to guess that's why the transaction didn't go thru, call them yourself, get it approved, and try again. Instead of just clicking "yes, that's me" in the app when they prompt you about fraud. And if you click it fast enough, the original transaction might not even get rejected.

So no, the banking websites are not at all good substitute. And it's especially bad for certain banks.

gck14• 1 month ago

I was using GrapheneOS for years, until the battery died while I was on an important call, trying to get someplace. Plugged it in, but little did I remember that I had installed OS update that was pending app optimization phase that happens during next boot.

GrapheneOS has some hardening in this phase, which as I understand, essentially has to rebuild all apps without cache.

And as I have a ton of apps, I was parked for 30 minutes waiting my phone to boot up.

And because of this app optimization thing, I always delayed OS update finalizations, which probably isn't the best thing.

Unfortunately, GrapheneOS recommendation to this was to have fewer apps. Had to let it go after that.

Milpotel2• 1 month ago

GrapheneOS recommendation to this was to have fewer apps

Sounds reasonable. People tend to install way too many apps on their phones and than blame the phone about short battery life or too many notifications.

gck14• 1 month ago

Having many apps will not affect battery life on Android in any meaningful way. Actively using them will. Apps can't just sit there and run in background, unless you explicitly gave them that permission.

Android also takes permissions away from apps after they haven't been used in a while anyway.

So most of the battery consumption will be from the apps that you actively need and use. Android's battery usage screen backs this up.

The metro app I installed when I was on a trip in Istanbul is still on my phone, but it's dormant. Yes, I should definitely uninstall it, but I really can't be bothered to do this all the time. On stock Android, phone takes care of this for me. On GrapheneOS, either I take that responsibility or face the consequences - which I don't really want.

dsr_• 1 month ago

App optimization happens in the background now, and pops a notification when it is done, asking to restart all open apps.

gck14• 1 month ago

Oh, then the biggest pain point I've had is now resolved. I should give it another go.

I've seen payments being another problem - but Garmin watch handles it for me. And paying with a watch becomes a conversation starter with merchants for some reason.

Cider998632• 1 month ago

I have multi day battery life and I only charge to 80% so it was either user error or a hardware failure.

GOS has much better battery than stock pixel ui because of less services and telemetry.

throawayonthe4• 1 month ago

i have mine set to auto-restart for updates and i shortened the 'restart when idle for n hours' value so it usually just does everything at night

maelito2• 1 month ago

But the we need a compact high-end phone for this.

Cider998632• 1 month ago

From two months ago:

In the USA, I think most people can easily afford a Pixel 9a at $56/year of device support starting from today. Calculator checks yearly cost based on device support: (https://ibb.co/xq82YQCw)

Sources for device lifetime from calculator: (https://grapheneos.org/faq#device-lifetime)

I used a New+Unlocked+Pixel+X on eBay to find a rough price of the phone.

Most people get scammed by their carrier and pay $25-45 per month just for their wireless subscription, and many more get caught up in the device bundles which gets you the "latest and greatest", at a huge price. So people are paying, per month, what you can pay, per year for a Pixel.

maelito2• 1 month ago

It's quite a big phone compared to the S10e.

cavoirom• 1 month ago

If you are new to GrapheneOS and wanna try. Here is the great introduction: https://dataswamp.org/~solene/2025-01-12-intro-to-grapheneos...

Cider998632• 1 month ago

That looks like a good intro!

And they accept XMR donations, so instant credibility boost.

SchwKatze• 1 month ago

Does it means that any device that supports android 17 will support graphene as well?

Cider998632• 1 month ago

No, only devices meeting the hardware requirements will be supported and it's a lot of manual work per device for them to support a device.

Reqs: https://grapheneos.org/faq#future-devices

Currently that means modern pixels and the next generation Motorola flagships once they come out.

ramaseshanms• 1 month ago

Been waiting for this for so long. Huge respect to the team for pulling this off.

tcfhgj5• 1 month ago

Sadly not an option as long they don't support Fairphones

Cider998632• 1 month ago

I don't think that fairphone is interested in privsec so it will never be supported.

tcfhgj5• 1 month ago

them supporting e/OS suggests otherwise

strcat23• 1 month ago

Fairphones are far from meeting the security requirements to run GrapheneOS and have chosen an incompatible path. It won't be available for their devices.

https://discuss.grapheneos.org/d/24134-devices-lacking-stand...

https://grapheneos.social/@GrapheneOS/116353973732143171

ikurei• 1 month ago

Jumped to GrapheneOS a few months ago. Works great. The keyboard was bad but you should install FUTO, as some other comments recommend.

My only issue with it has been a few apps not working correctly, and not the ones I expected. I did my research before hand and knew that my banking apps would work, thinking those would be the main challenge.

Turns out the bike-sharing system in my city, Madrid, won't work. I ended up installing Google Play services (that run sandboxed in Graphene, but still wanted to avoid), and it works sometimes, but mostly doesn't. I use these bikes a few times a week, so this is a major hassle, and I end up carrying my ancient iPhone with me sometimes just for this.

This and Trade Republic have been my only two problems. Happy otherwise, but do your research before switching, and don't assume only the apps you expect to be problematic will be.

mycall• 1 month ago

Why don't you connect with the makers of Madrid and see what they can do about it? That is sometimes the best way to fix these types of incompatibilities.

NoImmatureAdHom• 1 month ago

GrapheneOS is fantastic

If you'd like to donate to the project, you can do so here: https://grapheneos.org/donate

masonwan• 1 month ago

That's exactpy why I get Google Pixel phones.

Support expires? Upgrade to custom ROM Ads? Upgrade to custom ROM Want to use it as server? Upgrade to custom ROM.

If I would use Apple iPhone, these old phones would be trash very soon.

MikeKusold• 1 month ago

The iPhone 11 was released almost 7 years ago and is still supported by the latest iOS.

For context, that would put it at the same release as Pixel 3 or Pixel 4. Those devices stopped receiving updates in 2022-2023.

akimbostrawman3• 1 month ago

That is not relevant for pixels at and above 7.they all have guaranteed 7 years of security updates, which is longer than iphones 5 years.

QuantumGood2• 1 month ago

Also on the homepage: "Volkswagen started blocking GrapheneOS users"

  https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=48571526

a963• 1 month ago

https://android-developers.googleblog.com/2026/06/Android-17...

With deep integration between hardware, software and AI, we’re transforming Android from an operating system to an intelligence system.

I didn't see any comments on the "ai" features. Are they coming along to GOS or AOSP or staying out and how does that affect Graphene in particular?

Cider998632• 1 month ago

No, the Ai features come from Google apps and services that you can manually install. Grapheneos doesn't ship with any Google services.

That change doesn't negatively affect your privacy it's simply a feature that apps can take advantage of in order to have ai be useful. Similar to the share feature where you can send links or files to other apps.

Of course on many operating systems it's not optional because they add ai as system apps, but gos does not do that.

koziserek2• 1 month ago

ehh I'd happily pay to get Graphene on my Wacom Movinkpad Pro 14...

Cider998632• 1 month ago

It does not support the requirements so no amount of money could get it running on that specific device. You'd need a completely different device.

Requirements: https://grapheneos.org/faq#future-devices

cromka• 1 month ago

the only problem I have with grapheneos is that it doesn't support E911 or the equivalent European standard https://github.com/GrapheneOS/os-issue-tracker/issues/1174

Because somehow this is also a privacy issue. They're really taking this a step too far with making life-saving decisions on behalf of the user: if you call 911/112, you HAVE a reason to do so. If you somehow need to NOT share your location, it could let you OPT OUT.

GrapheneOS has been ported to Android 17

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