Windows 11 users are tired of MS account requirements creeping into everything

https://www.windowscentral.com/microsoft/windows-11/windows-11-users-are-tired-of-microsoft-account-requirements-and-workarounds

by josephcsible • 1 month ago

570 446 1 month ago

windowscentral.com

anorphirith• 1 month ago

they also force you to give a recovery account. i’m thinking microsoft’s hands are tied in this matter, it might be the government forcing a kyc strategy

xg153• 1 month ago

"KYC" simply for operating your own PC?

lenerdenator5• 1 month ago

Of course. How else are they to know that you posted criticism of the President on the internet?

Telemakhos• 1 month ago

Apple doesn't force you to create an AppleID unless you want to use Music and the App Store. You can still run macOS as a standalone local user. So, it's not government-forced KYC.

opan4• 1 month ago

I believe on my Mac (non-primary machine, FWIW) I ended up signing into an Apple account, and I doubt I did that for no reason. I don't rely on iCloud or spend money on apps. Is it required to get Xcode, which is required for some things from homebrew to work? You did mention the App Store, which maybe applies here. Is the App Store the only way to get Xcode?

notavalleyman• 1 month ago

Which government? And what's your evidence

tupac_speedrap• 1 month ago

It's an open secret that Windows is backdoored for the NSA to be fair and that isn't even including the truly dodgy stuff like Intel Management Engine being a backdoor on a BIOS level with remote access

jmclnx2• 1 month ago

If only Windows users fully understood why M/S wants you to create an account, people would leave en-masse.

The ID along with their telemetry, M/S can map you to what you do and from where. That pretty much makes their builtin disk encryption useless.

tredre3• 1 month ago

That pretty much makes their builtin disk encryption useless.

Does the encryption keep the user's data safe if the device is lost or stolen? Yes? Then it fulfills its main purpose.

jmclnx2• 1 month ago

We need to define "safe".

Safe from coffee shop people or in a dorm, probably yes. If you lock your laptop with a good screensaver and have a decent PW, those people are not getting in anyway.

Plus with smart phones hardly anyone carries their laptop around these days.

But with what M/S is doing with Windows 11 "security" any ad company with $, lawyer with a warrant or alphabet soup agencies, can get a decent idea with what is going on even if they cannot get to see your data in Excel or Word.

But most M/S office data is now in the "cloud", so all bets are off for those files in many cases.

halfcat2• 1 month ago

Except for the bitlocker vulnerability that lets someone with the physical computer bypass it. Other than that, it works flawlessly.

themafia4• 1 month ago

Non technical users still write down their passwords. So: no.

Do technical users have the option to install something better? Yes? Then this has no purpose.

listenallyall2• 1 month ago

Most people do all their Windows activity from one single specific location. It's Android and iOS that know you just drove down and made a stop at your city's most popular drug marketplace, or that you and your secretary were in the same hotel at 7pm yesterday.

stodor892• 1 month ago

Windows users don't care. The MS account is some set-and-forget BS for the most part.

m4634• 1 month ago

They also upload what you do

johnea• 1 month ago

It does make me wonder why people keep running this OS...

bigstrat2003• 1 month ago

Because they feel (rightly or wrongly) there is no viable alternative. It might be that they have software which requires Windows, it might be that they think it's too complicated to set up Linux, or it might just be that they aren't aware any other option exists. But those all boil down to the same thing: people think they have to use Windows, so they tolerate its nonsense.

1over137• 1 month ago

Some important software only works on Windows alas.

Not everyone does everything from a web browser.

tcfhgj• 1 month ago

Alternative OS are not limited to browser software...

keithnz• 1 month ago

a lot of the compatibility stuff on Linux runs windows software, so that's usually not a huge blocker. Having recently switched to Linux as my main (used to run it in a VM) the real issues are all these things that don't quite work out of the box (different distros might get different results). For instance my audio when playing dota2 would randomly cut out and not return when using discord. It took a bunch of fiddling around to get both to work. Then there's weird compatibility things depending on choices you make, for instance, I used RustDesk a lot in windows. But it doesn't really work well in linux with wayland. So while my overall experience is Linux is pretty good... I'm now in a world where I can end up with all kinds of random issues, all likely solvable, but all likely semi unique to my setup.

noah343• 1 month ago

to many people, Windows, IS "computer"

stubish• 1 month ago

It is too intimidating to change for one. Most users I deal with are terrified and bewildered by settings and can't even take the few steps to install an adblocker (and they want the adblocker!)

And from the article: "Technician's know how to get around this, but not everyone using a computer is a technician."

To use an alternative, you need to know someone with the knowledge and ability and able to request their time. Backing up data, burning USB sticks, installing, setup new backup solution, resyncing bookmarks, creating shortcuts to their email, replacements for the apps they use... all the details takes a lot of time, and it is ongoing work. Someone has to become 'the technician' and provide support. Otherwise, people have no option except to keep bumbling along with the default or somehow become 'the technician' themselves without any guide but web forums and ChatGPT.

CamperBob22• 1 month ago

To use an alternative, you need to know someone with the knowledge and ability and able to request their time.

Fortunately, my old pal Claude Code is always there for me. Need something installed/fixed/changed? Just ask... in plain English.

I don't need him for Windows, but man, that dude can make Linux walk and talk.

tgsovlerkhgsel2• 1 month ago

Because when I want to play a game, I want to play a game, not debug someone's hacky attempt to make it work on Linux.

Implementing a strict "no fiddly shit on my game machine" policy was one of the best choices for my mental health that I've made: It's a dedicated machine for gaming, with nothing really sensitive on it aside from gaming related accounts, and its only purpose is to play games with the least amount of immediate hassle. In other words, if the choice is installing something ugly or fiddling, that launcher, kernel level anticheat or whatever it is gets installed.

abeyer• 1 month ago

Implementing a strict "no games on my no fiddly shit machine" policy was one of the best choices for my mental health that I've made

Windows can be just as bad, I'm quite happy to restrict my games choice a bit to run them on a console that someone else makes work.

denkmoon• 1 month ago

FWIW, with minor exception, Linux is better at "no fiddly shit on my game machine" now. I feel strongly about this too, to come home from work and debug some shit going wrong on my gaming system is no bueno, I'd rather just not play games. It has to work without fucking around.

Windows is now the OS that fucks with me and causes grief, since moving to cachyos the experience has been so bloody blissful it's not funny. I can, amazingly, just come home and launch a game and play the game and not deal with bullshit like taking 30 minutes to install some random update. Nothing randomly breaks. Nothing updates unless I let it. Nothing randomly pops up asking me to do some bullshit I'm not interested in for a result I don't care about. etc.

CivBase• 1 month ago

Funny enough, I just switched to Linux for a game I play because it was a hassle on Windows.

My friends and I play Halo Infinite sometimes and I've had some performance issues with it on Linux so I've always booted into my Windows 11 partition to play it. It's about as vanilla Windows 11 install as it gets.

But over the last few months it has been crashing all the time. It started happening very frequently - like once every ~30 min. It was a vanilla install. Basically just the game and graphics drivers. And everything was up to date.

I started playing it on Linux and now it just works. There's still a weird performance problem, but I can live with that because it's at least stable.

sharts2• 1 month ago

Do VMS not work for this?

xigoi2• 1 month ago

If your game is on Steam and does not use creepy “anticheat” software, you can probably just play it on Linux.

etdznots2• 1 month ago

I’ve long ago learned to ignore people that pretend that the system they use just works, go look at any mac user or windows users workflow, for most people there are dozens of hacky BS things they do to work around the inherent problems of the system they’re using they (naturally) just make excuses for their existing tools ignoring all of the workarounds and arcane knowledge they’ve accumulated while acutely feeling the pain of any new arcana that they have to learn for a new system.

marcelox86• 1 month ago

the Linux distro I want does not yet exist.

BobbyTables2• 1 month ago

Try doing a full screen rdp session from Linux at 4K resolution.

The lag will be with you. VNC won’t be any better.

He’ll, even some YouTube videos are overly taxing from Firefox in Linux.

Also Stream seems to think Windows is more equal than Linux…

amlib3• 1 month ago

Try doing a full screen rdp session from Linux at 4K resolution.

You should be using Sunshine/Moonlight for that anyway. You will get ultra smooth low latency 4k@120fps streaming to and from linux.

I regularly play games streamed from my noisy big linux pc all the way across to the living room linux pc. It's brilliant.

pkphilip• 1 month ago

How often do you do a 4k RDP session on Linux?

14• 1 month ago

Uncertainty of how it all works is my opinion. Like how is it installed. What is making a partition and what are these warnings? What happens to all my pictures and documents? What distro is best? Do I lose all my paid for software? How do I now do all the things I am used to doing?

I remember the first time I partitioned my hard drive and did a dual boot and I was really unsure about so many things. It is intimating.

themafia4• 1 month ago

...don't look now, but, there's a trillion dollar gorrilla in the room right behind you.

Havoc2• 1 month ago

Switching to something else is still quite intimidating to the non hn crowd

CM30• 1 month ago

Games and niche software for the most part.

Yeah, compatibility on Linux is better now, especially with Valve implementing Proton so games would run on the Steam Deck.

But there are still incompatible games, and non-Windows operating systems are generally not a priority for many game developers. So, you have to hope that either Valve or the community have found a way to make them run on other systems.

And then there's the aforementioned niche stuff. Yes, your games may be compatible with Linux, but what about the tools needed to mod them? Plenty of modding and ROM hacking communities only develop for Windows, so anyone looking to get involved in those scenes has no real choice other than to use Windows. Wouldn't be surprised if plenty of non-gaming communities made heavy use of tools from the days of Windows 95 or MS DOS too, whose creators haven't bothered to update them in years or who have no interest in porting them to Linux in general. Bonus points if the tool is closed source freeware from some site that looks like it was made in 1995.

xg153• 1 month ago

"To avoid the next problem: 'Microsoft locked my data behind bitlocker, and now I can't get it back.' they need to store that key on the MS account."

Doesn't that make the account requirement even more scary? So now if MS decides for some reason to lock my account, this will make even the data I have on my local disks inaccessible as well?

superkuh• 1 month ago

Very much so.

And it's even more scary that MS uses dark patterns to trick older non-technical users into enabling MS online accounts. When the bitlocker activation automatically happens during tricking the user into going from a local account to online account it is without the user's consent or real participation. They don't print out a copy of the key or move it to a usb drive becuase they aren't aware their drives are being encrypted. And afterwards they can't set up recovery keys because the computer itself only shows the blue aka.ms screen. It's effectively dead until they follow the demands.

This is not theoretical, it actually happened to my mother on the local account Win 11 computer I set up for her sewing applications. I had to drive across town in order to figure it out since the weird URL I'd never heard of (aka.ms) and demand for pasting private info sounded so much like ransomware. And in fact, it was effectively ransomware, it was just demanding online activity rather than money.

hurtigioll3• 1 month ago

it does look sketchy, but microsoft used aka.ms since forever, especially for short links to various SDKs (aka.ms/pwsh7)

iamnothere• 1 month ago

I don’t see what the problem is. Just don’t get into any business that MS considers shady, or disparage the company publicly, or piss off an executive, or get sanctioned because your work with the UN is at cross purposes with the current US administration.

SXX4• 1 month ago

Or anything that random LLM might consider shady...

exploderate• 1 month ago

You are probably talking about Kahn. The international Criminal Court is not part of the UN. It is distinct from the International Court of Justice.

As of October 2024, there are 125 states parties to the Rome Statute, which are represented in the court's governing body, the Assembly of States Parties. Countries that are not party to the Rome Statute and do not recognise the court's jurisdiction include China, India, Russia, and the United States.

Member states represent around a third of the world population.

ndsipa_pomu• 1 month ago

Is that sarcasm?

What happens if MS decides that using competitors software is "shady" - they have previous form of unfair competition practices, so it's not unlikely.

Also, what happens if the US administration decides that MS software is only authorised if you have white skin and support Trump?

listenallyall2• 1 month ago

Regardless of account type, there are many things that could require you to need those Bitlocker keys to get your data. Don't just associate them with an account, have Windows save the keys to a text file, and save that text file somewhere external, on a NAS or Dropbox or email itnto yourself or whatever, and print out 2 or 3 hard copies and keep them close by. I'm 1000x more worried about losing my data to a Windows crash/error than to theft or any other external actor.

protocolture3• 1 month ago

Doesn't that make the account requirement even more scary? So now if MS decides for some reason to lock my account, this will make even the data I have on my local disks inaccessible as well?

Depends. The average user would be more afraid if its not backed up online.

mulquin2• 1 month ago

I'm not sure there's anything I dislike more than "the average user" because so much good software has been destroyed because of it.

themafia4• 1 month ago

Having helped more than a few users with down PCs. They're mostly not even aware these backups exist. When you explain it to them the result is a mixture of relief and then fear that this was occurring without their awareness.

pmontra3• 1 month ago

I'm afraid that the average user still does not think about backup. Sharing with other devices, probably yes, but the two concepts are only distant cousins.

pndy2• 1 month ago

My rather distant friend has a tendency of not reading what happens on the screen. She uses her computers for years only for browsing the web and writing papers. Whatever else obstructs her way is dealt with "next next finish" approach. Despite I told her many times, she should read and look up for solutions online if there's any doubt.

She locked her W11 laptop. Disk was encrypted and she couldn't recall neither login or password for MS account.

mynameisvlad2• 1 month ago

You can save your recovery key in different formats (printed, on a USB stick, etc). The online recovery is just automatic.

vladvasiliu• 1 month ago

I think that when you have an MS account with the automatic online key backup, BitLocker is actually turned on automatically, and the user isn't presented with the option to back it up elsewhere. You need to know about this, and manually back it up.

polski-g• 1 month ago

So the encryption of your personal computer is at the whims of the least competent employee at Microsoft?

_carbyau_3• 1 month ago

It does seem a lot like ransomware.

LtWorf8• 1 month ago

OH no worries bitlocker had a backdoor for the NSA so it's actually possible to use that to recover the data.

https://cybernews.com/security/researcher-releases-bitlocker...

fortran773• 1 month ago

Microsoft offers it, but they don't need to store it. I store my bitlocker keys locally. (Printed out in a safe).

avd201• 1 month ago

Windows became ransomware? lmao

hollow-moe• 1 month ago

That's a long article ridden with ads just to say "a redditor complains about shitty Windows OOBE requiring a Microsoft account (this has been the case for 10 years already)". Alternatives exists and are viable, now people still prefer pouring energy into complaining to a wall instead of actually moving. Getting abused is deserved at this point, it's been more than 10 years now, get a grip.

usea• 1 month ago

Getting abused is deserved at this point

Nobody deserves to be abused.

blooalien• 1 month ago

"Nobody deserves to be abused."

I beg to differ; Most people don't deserve to be abused, but those who dish out abuse on those who never asked for it, or on other such "innocents" absolutely deserve a full measure of abuse, since they clearly don't understand (or care) how it feels to be on the receiving end of it.

h4kunamata• 1 month ago

Yet they use it, they do not really care, they even install Windows games that requires kernel level spyware read anti-cheat.

There are Linux distros that are newbie friendly and looks like Windows.

An end user that does not depend on Adobe, if you are still using that for whatever reason, they have no excuse to don't move to Linux distro OS.

Cider99862• 1 month ago

People don't know about the stuff you're describing. They use the OS that comes with their PC or is the one everyone else uses.

Neywiny• 1 month ago

^^^^^ https://xkcd.com/2501/

Just like how Linus from LTT (just trust me bro on the source) said one day he needed a tool (hammer?) so he walked into the hardware store, found what looked like a hammer, and bought it. End of journey. And then he finally realized how a regular person buys tech. Most people do not care, do not know they should care, and do not care enough to know if they should care enough.

bigyabai• 1 month ago

Ignorance isn't a good excuse. If you do backbreaking work in the worst shoes and complain about your foot hurting, you might want to start shoe shopping.

Animats• 1 month ago

This may be changing in Europe. Entire governments are fed up with Microsoft.

LeFantome• 1 month ago

“No excuse”

noah343• 1 month ago

good luck getting ol' grandma to flash her desktop with Fedora/equivalent

willis936• 1 month ago

Flash it for her. The result will be a more stable (in terms of not shitting the bed randomly one day or changing the entire UI) and decluttered portal to whatever website she uses it for.

TacticalCoder2• 1 month ago

good luck getting ol' grandma to flash her desktop with Fedora/equivalent

My kid's grandma (my wife's mom) brought me one Windows laptop too-many to fix "because there were ads everywhere".

I confiscated her laptop (I'm now using Linux on it) and had her buy a Chromebook.

People aren't using Windows under my watch / friends don't let friends/family use that mediocre piece of turd that Windows is / etc.

stodor892• 1 month ago

they have no excuse

That's irrelevant, because they don't owe you an excuse to begin with.

themafia4• 1 month ago

they do not really care

What would their choice be anyways? It's like saying "yet people still die, they do not really care, they even engage in activities which hasten their deaths!"

password4321• 1 month ago

I was in a hurry trying to log into my kid's Minecraft account, wound up clicking something to associate it with the Windows account... now the PC is in restricted mode and I'm having a hard time restoring the previously associated Microsoft account (among other things, have to ask permission to open the browser and approve the requests logging in on my phone)!

Everything online says to use the option to switch to a Windows account but I am pretty sure it is not available anymore.

Jordan-1173• 1 month ago

I ran into this trying to set up a new Dell laptop for my mom. It shipped to her in "S mode", meaning that among other things I couldn't install arbitrary software from the web. I assumed there'd be some straightforward way to disable it (even if it might be a little buried to discourage normies). But after several hours of searching through tutorials and mucking about in Windows settings, the command prompt, BIOS, and even the system registry, and I flatly could not do it. Never seen anything like it before. Ended up wiping and replacing Windows with Linux Mint, which she was happy with.

xigoi2• 1 month ago

Microsoft keeps being the best advocate for Linux.

Kwpolska• 1 month ago

First DuckDuckGo result for "windows s mode": https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/switching-out-of...

adrian_b2• 1 month ago

When I worked at a very big US company some years ago, I received for work a new Dell laptop with Windows also in "S mode", to replace an older Dell laptop.

However, at that time I had no idea about the existence of the "S mode". I could not install on the laptop some applications that were distributed and used internally in the company and which were essential for my work.

I requested assistance from the IT department, but at that time not even they had any idea about the existence of the "S mode", so they were equally baffled why on my previous Dell laptop I could easily install any application, while on its new replacement I could not. For a couple of weeks, various IT support people from teams located on several continents had repeatedly connected remotely to my laptop every day, trying to solve the problem, but without any success.

memcg3• 1 month ago

https://www.google.com/search?q=Windows+also+in+%22S+mode%22 "Switching Out of S Mode If you find that S mode is too restrictive, you can switch out of it for free. However, according to Microsoft Support, doing this is a one-way street—once you leave S mode, you cannot go back without completely reinstalling Windows.To switch out of S mode:Open the Start Menu and click Settings.Navigate to System > Activation.Look for the Switch out of S mode section.Click Go to the Store.On the page that opens in the Microsoft Store, click Get"

chadaustin• 1 month ago

God, that's the worst. Minecraft is also what led us to accidentally bind my child's account to the administrator account on my TV PC, and because he's a minor we can't actually unbind that account. I've tried for hours and have not succeeded.

"Just make a new account." It's possible but then we'd have to make sure we get every single saved game for all the various games moved over and ugh.

Freak_NL• 1 month ago

[…] but then we'd have to make sure we get every single saved game for all the various games moved over […]

Every single game save? Why? I get it if you are deep into a month long Factorio game or have a huge Minecraft world, but on the whole games are ephemeral entertainment. If it's not worth backing up, it's usually fine to just start a new game.

ChoGGi• 1 month ago

This'll tell you where saves are [1]. Move the important games first, and come back when he asks about the rest.

[1] https://www.pcgamingwiki.com/wiki/Home

bleh• 1 month ago

Good luck. I lost access to 3 of my 5 Minecraft licenses due to Microsoft login, and I’ll never forgive Microsoft for it.

ivell• 1 month ago

Same here. That's when I switched my kids' machines to Linux. That was just 2 months back.

And was Windows 11 bug free, no. Was it easier to use, no. Absolutely irritating OS.

gedy• 1 month ago

Kinda inverse for me but abandoned Windows after having a local account for my kids, and I bought them MS Flight Simulator on my Microsoft Account from the MS Store.

There was no way to use this expensive purchase from the kid's account on the same machine! Stupid bullshit - I gave up on Windows from then on.

deltoidmaximus• 1 month ago

I have to figure out by my kid's new Minecraft account is banned/blocked or whatever even though she hasn't even used it, looks like the standard pump for extra PII scam every account setup runs now. She was about on the verge of tears telling me about it.

I deal with the shenanigans at work but I'm at least paid to eat shit there. That's how they run things I guess, you give them money, then they extort you to get more if you want what you paid for or they'll make your kid cry. I'm grinding my teeth just thinking about it.

TacticalCoder2• 1 month ago

Everything online says to use the option to switch to a Windows account but I am pretty sure it is not available anymore.

Not everything. I say: use the option to switch to Linux.

I installed PopOS and Steam for my 11 y/o. She games either on her Nintendo Switch (not Microsoft) or on her iPad (not Microsoft) or on Linux (not Microsoft).

Wife works from a Debian desktop PC, so do I.

Microsoft is not allowed in this house.

pjmlp5• 1 month ago

An option only available on households with UNIX skills, and work that has zero dependency on using Microsoft products.

Something that isn't available to everyone.

Havoc2• 1 month ago

Pretty sure I’ve got multiple copies of Minecraft thanks to Microsoft login bullshit.

Recently moved desktop to Linux though so hopefully don’t need to deal with them again

insane_dreamer• 1 month ago

I ran into similar MS account hell when trying to get my kid's Xbox account signed back in.

Absolutely hate it. Can't wait to ditch Xbox for PS.

throwaway815233• 1 month ago

There's a similar thing with Google accounts and Android, amirite? I've avoided having a Google account but it hasn't always been easy.

m4634• 1 month ago

you can use an iphone without an apple id.

- you have to dodge dark patterns to get through setup without one

- you can't install software

opan4• 1 month ago

I've mostly just used LineageOS for several years now, but I believe the first time setup pushes you to sign in to a Google account, but you can easily skip it. If you do sign in, it's sticky/permanent and I think may require a reinstall to get back out of it.

throwaway815233• 1 month ago

Lineage is interesting but doesn't support my phone or others that is want. Same with Graphene.

as1mov2• 1 month ago

Surprisingly no, you can use an Android phone without an account. Though you cannot install any applications from the Play Store, tbf I'll count that almost as a positive.

type03• 1 month ago

Does it allow users to receive Android updates?

tick_tock_tick• 1 month ago

You can do that just fine. Huge swaths of people just use the Amazon app store or the Samsung One. F-Droid is also an option if you don't want to make any accounts.

throwaway815233• 1 month ago

Yeah I use f-droid. I wouldn't want to use Amazon or Samsung etc.

esalman3• 1 month ago

I have used a Windows OS almost every day of my life since 1999 or so. Last December I had a choice and switched to MacOS for work laptop. Since then I seldom use Windows and I don't really regret.

I still use an Xbox almost every day so there's that. In the last couple of weeks there's been some good news coming through for Xbox so we'll see.

Agentlien2• 1 month ago

What news are you referring to? The only news about Xbox I've caught is that it's declining in profit because they removed Xbox exclusives.

pjmlp5• 1 month ago

Asha is doing some good decisions, or it seemed so until the XBOX Reset blog post.

However beyond XBOX, Microsoft is one of the biggest publishers as per amount of owned studios especially since ABK acquisition, so even when XBOX is doing bad, Microsoft Publishing is doing great.

m4634• 1 month ago

Did you create an apple id?

At least macos doesn't require it to install software.

ios is a different story.

esalman3• 1 month ago

I didn't create an Apple ID. The MacBook is from work and I use AD account to access it.

ActorNightly• 1 month ago

This may get buried here, but there is one important distinction missing from all these articles.

Win 11 Pro allows you to enable local login, and disable all the intrusive microsoft stuff. Ive been on win 11 for the past 5 years and don't even remember my microsoft password at this point. IIRC you still have to set one up when you first install, but then once you switch to local login, any time you open up a microsoft app it makes you login in the app.

Its not a "good" solution, but given that Win11+WSL2 pretty much lets you run any software out there, its worth while doing.

halfcat2• 1 month ago

You don’t have to login with the online account. Before you install:

- Disable the network cards in the BIOS

- Install

- When prompted to setup the network press Shift+F10

- Type: start ms-cxh:localonly

- Setup the local account

- After install completes re-enable the network cards in the BIOS

Nothing could be easier. Truly the most user-friendly OS.

yndoendo2• 1 month ago

Microsoft is even trying to get Windows IoT / Embedded to be MS accounts vs local. The same method for disabling ease of local user accounts are being enabled there.

Windows IoT still forces all the useless trash to be installed ... such as XBox game bar. I have to spend every few months going through the means to disable this trash via the registry so it can be automated in air-gaped systems.

Original Window Embedded, pre-IoT branding, allowed full customization. Now it is near equivalent to standard desktop.

You have to pay me to use Windows OS ... even with gaming.

thewebguyd• 1 month ago

If you have Pro edition you don't have to do any of that.

Click "Sign in options"->Domain Join Instead

That's it, it''ll have you create a local account.

t0bia_s• 1 month ago

There is easier method. Set up local account during creating Win bootable install device via Rufus. During actual Win install it skips all steps about crating local account. Done.

b3lvedere2• 1 month ago

You do not need to disable network interface cards. Just do not connect a network cable and do not connect to a wifi ssid.

You also do not need to supply a password for the new local user account. It will now automatically login and have local admin rights.

partomniscient• 1 month ago

Or don't bother with the above - install Windows 10 without an online account and just unplug the network card. Download the Win11 upgrade binary. Run the upgrade and keep clicking no to the many (but not excessive) times it suggests to create a Microsoft Account.

Time intensive, but doesn't require much knowledge or pulling hardware.

pndy2• 1 month ago

Kinda related: back on Windows 7 I did add my MS account to Credentials Manager out of pure curiosity. But there was nothing else that could be done beside storing login and password. Even Windows Live applications bundle hold login data separately from Manager.

So I removed that account but when W10 was released, it was offered during initial setup of upgraded system. Windows still stored information about that account somewhere.

And yes, there are system tools still present today in W11 that allows users to create additional local accounts beside the default one set during installation - that's mmc snap-in (terrible name) local users and groups or net user for console. But I totally get it and support: people don't want to be forced for an online account out of the box, for a local workflow.

zer0zzz4• 1 month ago

I have not needed to use windows for anything productive for 15 years.

sharts2• 1 month ago

At this point it sounds like you can’t use windows for anything productive for the next 15 years

hurtigioll3• 1 month ago

some people do more than just write code

opan4• 1 month ago

What are some common hold-ups you know of? I don't program but have still used GNU/Linux on my main machine for over a decade now. It can browse the web, play games, listen to music, watch TV and movies, you can draw, you can edit video, you can stream to Twitch.

everyone2• 1 month ago

I'm doing more and more on Linux Mint these days, but there are a few niche things that still only work good on Windows.

Windows 10 LTSC 2021 IOT is great tbh.. Install it without internet and you dont need a MS account at all.

DANmode2• 1 month ago

Do they still offer this ISO officially? Link? Thanks

everyone2• 1 month ago

I have no idea, I just have a copy from TPB. Its still supported tho. Still getting security updates. I think until 2030 ish? I'm not sure, I think the older versions of LTSC had longer guaranteed support than the newer ones.

DaSHacka6• 1 month ago

I think massgrave has a link to the iso on the Microsoft website in their listing of windows versions.

oreally• 1 month ago

double recommend it for those who still want to stay on windows and are doubtful about linux

madduci2• 1 month ago

Windows has reached the point where it deserves only to run in a virtual machine for some needs.

Otherwise leave it behind and move on to Linux, BSD or whatever doesn't require a cloud account to work

globular-toast2• 1 month ago

I installed it on a VM the other day, and trust me it was only because my job, which pays me, required it. I couldn't believe it was trying to get me to sign in to a Microsoft account to finish installation. I had to look up some arcane way to skip it. The article I read listed other methods, many of which no longer work so it seems they really want you to log in.

Then it was showing me shit like the FTSE 100 price right on the desktop, and some stupid thing about the football world cup. All totally unsolicited spam. I couldn't believe people put up with Windows some 15 years ago when I ditched it. Now I'm convinced some people are just conditioned to being in an abusive relationship and can't imagine any different.

VTimofeenko2• 1 month ago

Moving 15 years back puts you into glory Win7 days. IIRC, the spam started with win8 which was released ~13 years ago and was very mild at first

left-struck2• 1 month ago

Oh man, unfortunately all the things I need windows for doesn’t work well in a VM:

Solidworks, needs special license to work in a VM that my company is not willing to pay for

DAWs, need real time access to low level audio stuff

Games, well, lets just say the experience is better with wine on linux

With the exception of work, at some point I decided that not only is windows dead to me, but any application that can only run on windows is also dead to me.

PeterStuer2• 1 month ago

At least on Proxmox the Solidworks and DAW latency problems are solvable.

krige2• 1 month ago

Linux hasn't reached the point where it can be the main driver, not for my usecases. Everything works until very suddenly it doesn't and there's no budging.

flaunf221• 1 month ago

Same. With every enshittification step Microsoft takes I want to switch, but alternatives are still worse.

madduci2• 1 month ago

Interesting. what kind if applications are challenging you?

ramon156• 1 month ago

The only limiting factor for me is - some games using anticheat (rainbow 6 mainly) - some programs that will never port (FL Studio, Adobe, etc.)

Apart from that, I have no desire to keep my home PC on windows.

freediddy2• 1 month ago

I was forced to switch to Windows 11 despite promising myself that I would never do this.

WHY THE FUCK CAN'T I INCREASE THE WIDTH OF THE TASKBAR? I have a 30" monitor, I can afford to have 3 or 4 rows of windows in my task bar. But I can't, not because it's technically feasible but because a human at Microsoft that believes they are more important than their customers made a decision to remove that option because they think they know better.

Whoever you are, I hate you.

moi2388• 1 month ago

Product owners are the worst thing to happen to products since sliced bread.

mdavid626• 1 month ago

The new taskbar was written by an intern on his first day using Copilot in Javascript. Zero fucks were given that day.

BuyMyBitcoins• 1 month ago

Check out Start11. I’m forced to use Windows 11 for work but I’ve managed to get the Windows 10 taskbar and start menu back. It only cost $8.

I literally hate the Windows 11 taskbar.

ycuser2• 1 month ago

Winhawk is worth a try aswell (free): https://windhawk.net/

freediddy2• 1 month ago

THANK YOU. I bought it off Steam and it's exactly what I needed!

WithinReason2• 1 month ago

This fixes that: https://github.com/valinet/ExplorerPatcher/

TonyStr• 1 month ago

Interesting, this was definitely possible in windows 10. I do remember upgrading form 10 -> 11 and not being able to use a vertical task bar anymore, but that appears to be getting patched now with the next release.

moomoo11• 1 month ago

godspeed for anyone still using windows in 2026

i’m happy on mac even with its ux regressions, and my ubuntu workstation.

giancarlostoro4• 1 month ago

I ditched Windows in 2022. I'm not going back to Windows unless Microsoft makes an OS for professionals that is stripped down out of the box to show how serious they are. No ads of any kind, no garbage online account features, nothing, just core offline-ready Windows. I bet it would perform drastically better too.

marak8302• 1 month ago

Yup, Windows 10 LTSC here. It's a lot faster and smoother, but I'm already transitioning to Linux on my other boxes. Will probably move before LTSC runs out as well.

edit: I realised I overplayed how much faster and smoother it is. compared to standard win 10 or 11. Example being my login screen sometimes struggles to come up when the computer is locked (work around double mash CTRL-ALT-DEL)

giancarlostoro4• 1 month ago

I have a Surface Book 2 which was insanely fast when I bought it. Its pretty vanilla, I dont like to tweak Windows often it usually feels like it degrades, its been sluggish the last two years or so. Idk what Microsoft did but used to be vanilla Windows was performant enough, they must have fired their performance guys? Idk

cafebabbe• 1 month ago

Same (2024), but i wouldn't come back in a hurry if they did so. Basically everything works now in Linux world, including my obscure devices, music & video editing, and my whole steam library... with better performance. It's sort of insane.

GordonS• 1 month ago

I just installed Bazzite-DX, and have been really surprised with how easy it was to install, and how well everything "just works". It even tells me when my wireless keyboard batteries are running out, something Windows couldn't do without running proprietary Logitech software.

My_Name2• 1 month ago

Which distro do you run?

0x1d76• 1 month ago

Sounds like Windows 11 Pro would do it for you, then.

giancarlostoro4• 1 month ago

I have already used that version of Windows, it is hot garbage.

awesomeusername• 1 month ago

Linux succeeded in the datacenter because of some atrocious choices MS made early on.

Now it's going to succeed on the desktop for the same reason

Bye bye windows

pmontra3• 1 month ago

Random bits out of my memory in no particular order, except the first one:

First and foremost Linux was free, no money, no licenses, no procurement procedures, download and install.

Windows insisted to have a GUI even on servers and you had to remote desktop to them and click click click. That was how most of the world was using those NT 3.51 boxes.

It soon became PHP vs ASP and Java run on both OSes equally well.

There were still many Unix developers around and they picked up Linux at least as a deployment target.

Web servers were developed for Unix first. Porting to Linux was trivial. Porting to Windows not so. We had to wait for IIS.

simianwords2• 1 month ago

Windows insisted to have a GUI even on servers and you had to remote desktop to them and click click click. That was how most of the world was using those NT 3.51 boxes.

No way. Why didn’t they have the foresight to see this was a bad idea?

donkeylazy456• 1 month ago

asking account for insider program is evil.

cm21872• 1 month ago

I enjoy windows 10 hugely now that it is out of support. It became way better when microsoft started tormenting the users of win11 instead of win10, and now that windows update doesn't bring new catastrophes and unexpected reboot, the OS is finally not interfering with usage anymore.

tommica2• 1 month ago

You are not worried about 0-days and other malware?

tommek4077• 1 month ago

A simple trade off. Guaranteed malware from microsoft, or potential attacks that you can mitigate with firewalls, airgaps or Anti-Virus software.

olyjohn• 1 month ago

Not really. The odds are way higher that an update will hose your system and data.

gib444• 1 month ago

You mean Windows 11, or 10?

I joke

bad_username• 1 month ago

I use Windows 10 with a relatively obscure firewall software with a per-process/per-service whitelist, and try to not be stupid on the Internet. I also do regular backups. This should cover most of the risk model applicable to me. Has worked so far.

sviruz• 1 month ago

Running Windows 10 Enterprise IoT LTSC still gives you updates until 2031 with the added benefit of no app store. I run it as my main OS since last October and have yet to encounter any issues.

cm21872• 1 month ago

The computer is not exposed to the WAN (behind a firewall), the main way it could get infected is via a vulnerability in a browser, but these do get updated. And OS updates don't really protect you from malware in executables you install anyway.

ozim• 1 month ago

Man 0-days are expensive stuff no one throws them at random people.

eur0pa• 1 month ago

No.

sensanaty• 1 month ago

Microsoft already handles infecting their users, how many times have they broken Windows 11 through patches?

samiv• 1 month ago

Why would they need to be any more worried about those now than before?

The same holes exists and have existed for some time already. If he was not worried about them before why be worried about them now? And if you're worried about security holes why not be worried about the ones that exist now?

In general I find it funny that some people think that system is "secure" when it's on the latest version. At time t0 version N is considered "secure" then an update is made at t1 with version N1 and suddenly N is no longer secure. But it didn't change... it's the same version it was before.

Fact is a computer system is never going to be 100% secure.

OoooooooO• 1 month ago

ESU updates are free for private users.

So till november 2026 or so everything is fine. Then I will probably have to switch to Linux.

krater232• 1 month ago

From definition, a 0-day is not patched in any system because it's not known. But back to your real question.

The biggest attack vectors are the browser, the mail client and direct network access. I would never use outlook, edge or connect my computer directly without NAT or firewall to the open internet. And would never open a website without a add blocker.

You can count all other known big attacks(on unpatched Windows 7!!!) on one hand.

1) Remote execution via Wifi Stack

2) Remote execution via True Type Fonts

3) 0-Click code execution via USB Stick Icon processing

Windows update instead gives AT LEAST Microsoft a steady remote code execution on your and millions of other computers. It's a really interesting attack target when you go big. Why I should trust M$ to get the security there right?

tyfon• 1 month ago

Just use mass grave scripts[1] and enable 5 years of security updates.

[1] https://massgrave.dev/

loloquwowndueo• 1 month ago

lol. He’s using Windows in the first place so, clearly no.

dmos62• 1 month ago

Note, there is a way to turn on extended support (updates). I'm getting updates on my w10. And random restarts, argh. Googling it should be enough to find it.

close04• 1 month ago

They're hosted on GitHub [1], if that's not implicit support from Microsoft, I don't know what is.

[1] https://github.com/massgravel/Microsoft-Activation-Scripts

LtWorf8• 1 month ago

It's still bugging me about windows 11

mDyJzDPmBdG• 1 month ago

Maybe disable Secure Boot/TPM in BIOS? No more nag screens when PC doesn't support Windows 11.

SomeUserName432• 1 month ago

It became way better when microsoft started tormenting the users of win11 instead of win10, and now that windows update doesn't bring new catastrophes and unexpected reboot, the OS is finally not interfering with usage anymore.

Yesterday when I booted my windows 10 desktop PC I got a bunch of popups (Win32 MessageBox) about errors in some O365 AI dll files.

Turns out some MS AI software was silently installed on my PC in late may.

I do not have MS Office or anything that should require any AI software.

hilariously2• 1 month ago

What you probably have is a component of O365 as an updater installed - check your programs and features because msft bundled this awhile back and once its removed it will stop the update treadmill.

AlexandrB• 1 month ago

I still get a full-screen "Upgrade to Windows 11" popup before I can get to the desktop every month or so when I start my Windows 10 machine.

kgwxd• 1 month ago

Windows 10 wouldn't let me run Minecraft because the OS was out of support. I upgraded to 11, and it wouldn't let me run without logging into the OS Store, in addition to Minecraft. I removed my Windows partition completely. I run MC on Linux now.

techteach002• 1 month ago

Truly updates should be focused on fixing bugs, security and performance improvements NOT new features.

trashface2• 1 month ago

Win10 is still getting updates if you opt in. My dad's computer started hard locking after a recent update - I spend a few hours trying to fix it, and I'm not terrible at debugging win10 issues, but I couldn't find the problem. Had to reset windows. It worked fine after doing that (of course, there was no actual hardware problem, as I had guessed), but I have to reinstall all his tax software since he does his (and my) taxes on it. So the long term reliability of win10 is rather questionable at this point; I suspect vibe coding has infiltrated the windows update process.

Personally I'm on linux full time now, which has its own issues but enshittification by Microsoft is not one of them.

mbirth• 1 month ago

You should try Windows 7, then. Boots in no time at all, feels EXTREMELY snappy, and nowadays, there are UEFI loaders and a thing called VxKex-NEXT which adds the few new API calls Windows 10 introduced and thus makes W7 run many W10-only apps.

SpikedCola• 1 month ago

VxKex/VxKex-NEXT really is an amazing bit of work. It helps me run the latest Apache, PHP, Go-based tools (ngrok/stripe cli), node. It’s been a game changer for keeping W7 going.

3stacks• 1 month ago

And what are you going to do about it, Windows 11 users?

toofy2• 1 month ago

this is why ive finally ditched windows for everything.

ive been a dual boot linux user for years, but still booting into windows for games and work.

no more, i just couldn’t take the:

- constant nagging

- ads for all of microsoft’s other shit that i absolutely did not want to use. copilot, onedrive, xbox, and on and on.

- the nonstop “sign in to your microsoft account” etc…

- settings i very deliberately changed reverting back on update.

- how stupidly long updates would take.

i just finally went to linux for everything. i was concerned about work stuff, and i ahve to admit, its absolutely definitely not perfect, but it still … feels? … better. i’m not sure this is the right phrase, but it just feels more fun. i feel good when i diagnose a linux bug, like productive or something. that feels more like fun to me compared to the dark patterns of windows which feels frustrating. if that makes sense.

i’d rather spend 20 minutes fixing a weird quirk on linux than the deal with the assault microsoft is constantly throwing at me when using windows. and id absolutely rather put up with a feature that isnt fully complete yet on linux than deal with dark patterns on windows.

and gaming? at this point, if a game doesn’t work on linux, i just play something else that does. there are just way too many choices of rad games that run good on linux. it does help that the games i’ve been playing lately (like cyberpunk) run a bit better on linux anyway.

the only holdout for me at this point is video and photo editing, i have to break out my macbook for lightroom and premiere still. but from what i understand linux is moving very very fast in that area so i’ll just use my mb until those are caught up. the day i can ditch my adobe subscription will be the type of “let’s go to the bar and toast with shots” kind of day. and from what other people say, it’s very close.

the cherry on top for me is, weve moved our parents machines to linux mint. my gf and i jokingly wonder if they would have even noticed if we hadn’t told them, firefox just works for their facebook and amazon lol. huge bonus that i can update their machines with a quick ssh apt update which takes literally seconds vs windows which sometimes takes half hour plus.

ewoodrich• 1 month ago

FWIW every one of those issues can be solved by running Win11Debloat one time (except update length which is variable based on hardware, but auto-update/restart can be disabled).

https://github.com/raphire/win11debloat

Persists after updates, and is a straightforward easily auditable PowerShell script enabling/disabling Windows/app features via approved OS provided API interfaces without any hacky brittle workarounds that eventually stop working.

It's the first thing I install on any fresh Windows 11 install for the past 4+ years. I get more ads on MacOS thanks to their lovely Apple TV, iCloud, etc push notifications than I ever see on Windows 11 (≈ 0) after running it.

I've updated hundreds of times across multiple machines and it's never stopped working. I'm only reminded it exists by its absence whenever I use an out of the box Win 11 install on a new PC which is painful in comparison.

I actually prefer debloated Win 11 to plain Win 10 because I get all the benefits like vastly superior multi monitor support on 11 with basically zero negatives.

toofy2• 1 month ago

appreciate the response. i’ve already moved on tho. microsoft just destroyed the little bit of good will i had towards them. i’d already been dual booting for years anyway. and honestly, while not perfect, linux has come so far that the problems i did initially have were not deal breakers, at all. post install i spent maybe 2 hours figuring out workflow and pwa’ing anything id need regularly like teams. another 2 hours working out any weird kinks and its been smooth since.

two years ago there is no way i could have moved fully over, but new LTS releases are an entirely different ballgame than they were 2 years ago, it’s wild.

if anyone’s curious and considering it, for my work system im running ubuntu LTS (yeah yeah, i know. but for work i need the stability that comes from long term support releases.) and likewise for LTS, my gf runs mint on her work system. for our personals we both run cachy.

tenderfault2• 1 month ago

I switched to Windows 10 as my main development machine few years ago after 25 years of continuously crashing Linux with an enormous pleasure. FreeBSD, well, there's nothing to crash there, that's the problem with it. Nothing. I didn't know almost anything about this Windows OS so I just started playing some sort of whac-a-mole game with it. I don't know what I did but right now I'm a happy (windows 11) user. I use Hyper-V with great success for driving my Linux and FreeBSD development. I like powershell and the dotnet platform and storage spaces and ntfs and many other. Good technologies, it feels good using. Windows terminal is almost OK. I stay away from crap like WSL and Code. I still use mutt for mail, not Office. And I can just play a game without any problems.

There's no Microsoft creep anywhere inside my daily flow. Actually, as of late, I feel more creep in Linux and FreeBSD than in Windows. Everything just works. Sometimes it tells me it has some updates for me. I let it install them and that's it. I'm back to my game, no weird stuff.

No account problem, no copilots, just my shit and myself and no Irene.

When I read about other users having trouble with it I get pretty sad. I wish I could say "do this and that" but I have no idea how my whac-a-mole game drove me to this happy situation. I must have (de)activated some (attack) vectors by mistake. But I whacamoled it head to end, from bios to wallpaper. I kept hitting and hitting, backuping, restoring, backuping,restoring, until i won. I'm on Windows 11 Pro in testing mode right now. Getting back to a linux desktop as my main? Nah, not right now. I have my i3wm running on a gpu partition inside hyper-v and sometimes I drop to it... I can't do all my arcane linux stuff in windows yet but i'm getting there. For now, I'm enjoying it. Been a while now. I just hope they don't notice me...

ptx2• 1 month ago

I like powershell and the dotnet platform and [...] Windows terminal [...] There's no Microsoft creep anywhere inside my daily flow [...] I just hope they don't notice me...

Did you make sure to disable telemetry in .NET, and also separately in PowerShell, and also separately in Windows Terminal, and also of course in Windows itself? Otherwise your machine is sending your data to Microsoft by default.

Of course, even if you do disable all of those, there are likely to be other Microsoft programs with their own telemetry enabled by default. And even if you disable those, they could at any moment add more telemetry that you don't know about.

tenderfault2• 1 month ago

I am actually sending some optional telemetry data as well, consciously. Telemetry I don't care about or smells it's disabled. I was referring more to some other type of creeping. I don't mind telemetry for a good cause.

deepsun• 1 month ago

Don't MacOS users all have apple.com accounts? I hear no complains though.

BTW, where do I create an account to for my Linux?

Gud• 1 month ago

No.

zuhsetaqi• 1 month ago

They might have all an Apple Account but thats not a requirement at all on macOS. Thats the difference between complaining customers and customers thatuse it because thez choose to use it.

askonomm• 1 month ago

Most probably do yes, but it's not a requirement to use any of Apple's devices. You don't need to do some command-line kung-fu to get around online account requirement like on Windows, you can just click "Skip" at the online account step, and that's it.

Perhaps you hear no complaints because unlike on Windows, MacOS does not spoon-feed you 10 screens of dark-pattern-riddled upsell ads with options of "Remind me later", "Yes" during set-up. It quite literally feels like being spat on, considering Windows is not a free operating system, and yet it still riddles you with ads and dark patterns as if some horrible shareware from the mid 2000s.

morpheuskafka2• 1 month ago

It's not really needed at all for macOS, but remains mandatory for even free apps on iPhone/iPad, so yes virtually all users have one. Same goes for free macOS App Store apps but that's not the only or even most common way to install stuff.

xeyownt• 1 month ago

You don't need an online account to back up your encryption key.

All you need is your password.

And a well-designed disk encryption tool.

INTPenis• 1 month ago

It wouldn't be so bad if they could manage proper SSO, but they keep forcing you to re-authenticate for some reason.

zubspace2• 1 month ago

Just last week I installed Windows 11 by downloading the ISO from Microsoft and creating a bootable USB stick with Rufus [1]. Rufus has options to make the Windows installer skip the Microsoft account login. Worked great!

There are reasons to install Windows. For one, I had to install it for my wife, and making her switch to another OS she isn’t used to would be quite a hassle. I also use it at work, and I need to run Visual Studio.

But I have the Pro version, and, AFAIK, there is a stark contrast between Pro and Home. Even though there is a push in Europe to make software Linux-compatible, there are still many, many companies and government institutions fully entrenched in the Microsoft world. Going Linux-only just for the sake of it sometimes does not make much sense business-wise.

[1] https://github.com/pbatard/rufus

LtWorf8• 1 month ago

Would make perfect sense if your competitor does it and automatically every customer is saving a microsoft subscription per employee.

zubspace2• 1 month ago

In some industries, Microsoft subscriptions are a drop in the ocean. Switching out things like Entra ID, Office, and print/scanning solutions would cost so much more, and come bundled with enough risk that no sane project manager would take it on lightly.

As a C# software provider, making something Windows- and Linux-compatible is easier than ever. So giving up on Windows is effectively the wrong move, because you would miss out on the behemoth companies that are simply too large to transition easily.

I know the majority of HN readers are fed up with Windows. That is completely understandable. But not everything about it is bad.

oefrha• 1 month ago

I wouldn’t mind so much if it didn’t automatically create the user folder based on real name on the MS account, with space in it, fucking up and complicating all sorts of things.

sixseven• 1 month ago

Now that Words/Excel are losing their battles against online documents, gaming is the only thing that's keeping me on Windows. Though I honestly enjoy using Windows 10, no way in hell will I upgrade my OS to Windows 11.

endymion-light• 1 month ago

Lifelong windows user here - gave up last year, switched to macos for laptop & ubuntu for desktop - haven't turned back since

alkonaut• 1 month ago

Without the MS account, it is _much_ harder to sell OneDrive, Copilot, Office365-whatever subscriptions etc to their users.

I get it. I get that they need to upsell their customers OR their product would be more expensive. I'd be happy to pay that premium though, and I'm not going to buy any of those additional things.

But let's not pretend that this is purely an evil or thoughtless design choice that isn't economic in Nature. Windows has a cost and that cost gets subsidized by all the people who buy additional services.

bayesnet• 1 month ago

I do not think that it is as well-reasoned as that. Far more likely IMO that teams are being evaluated on upsell uptake and so push these requirements to make the number on the dashboard go up.

Anyway, I’d be more sympathetic to this way of thinking if windows wasn’t getting worse over time. But it seems like investment in the OS is being disfavored for investment in AI-in-things-no-one-wants-AI-in, which is inverse of the subsidy direction you propose

0x1d76• 1 month ago

I get that they need to upsell their customers OR their product would be more expensive.

Then buy Pro. Most people aren't happy to spend more money.

jwr• 1 month ago

A couple of years ago Microsoft bought the SwiftKey keyboard app (for iOS). Recently the other shoe dropped: they introduced a requirement to be logged in "for data backup", you get a banner on top of the keyboard that cannot be permanently turned off.

I am so tired of this relentless user-hostile push for accounts, logins and pervasive tracking.

morpheuskafka2• 1 month ago

Apple is very strict about keyboard extensions so I am surprised it is allowed. They require it to be functional even if you don't allow any data sharing back to the app, let alone a cloud account, but I guess banners make it past?

Dachande663• 1 month ago

I recently set up a new gaming PC, made from cannibalised parts of other machines. I installed Windows 11 as there was no point starting on an older OS (and Bazzite etc really struggled with the nvidia GPU so Linux was a non-starter even though I love my Steam Deck and Proton).

The one saving grace for all of this was Win11Debloat[0]. I cannot recommend this set of configuration changes etc more highly. It kills _almost_ everything that irked me about 11. Use at your own risk, but it's now part of my standard install practice.

[0] https://github.com/Raphire/Win11Debloat

liotier• 1 month ago

... And that is the straw that broke the camel's back - and convinced my elderly father to accept my offer to migrate to KDE.

Also, I can now shield him from most of the incomprehensible unsolicited dialogs that triggered support calls. I haven't had to field a single complaint since I tuned his desktop !

My_Name2• 1 month ago

I really did not want to change from 7 to 10. I did it begrudgingly partly because "It is the last version of windows".

Well, they were right in one sense. It is the last version of windows I will have. I now have an old box set up with Linux Mint, so I can get familiar with it before switching over all my main PCs

krater232• 1 month ago

Exactly my turn. Win 10 is clearly the last Windows for me. For private I still use Win 7, for work I used Win 10, but the driver support for my old dell laptop(2014) is so shitty, that it's overheating and throttleling as soon it has to do some normal things.

When the last bastion of Windows, the driver support is falling, I can switch to Linux. Since 2 month I use openSuse on this device and be happy. No running fan, no problems. Windows is dying.

mancerayder• 1 month ago

I found Fedora Workstation 'mature' and an easy thing to switch to - there are a few Gnome conveniences like taskbar and menus that can be easily turned on (Claude helped me there).

senfiaj• 1 month ago

If MS isn't going to fix this, I'm not going to use Windows 11 again. https://waspdev.com/articles/2026-03-12/i-ll-probably-never-...

mixxit• 1 month ago

Went to Kubuntu long into win11 thanks for the memories Microsoft

s_dev• 1 month ago

Install Windows IoT. It's for internet of things devices and has more strict updating procedures than conventional Windows.

https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/iot/product-family...

Functionally it's the same and have heard good things. In any case I will be switching to Linux for my gaming Desktop soon. I will still have Windows for the odd multiplayer game that isn't well supported by Proton.

zparkes• 1 month ago

is media ungated/downloadable for iOT? also downgradable from pro or home?

amelius• 1 month ago

I'm tired of needing an Apple account to use my hardware.

shantnutiwari• 1 month ago

I think those of us who cared have already left-- for me Mac and Linux (2 laptops). Everyone else is a hostage now; tough luck

neuropacabra2• 1 month ago

As much as I avoiding any Microsoft technology at any cost. I do have a gaming rig at home, and yes I have Windows on it. I only use it to launch Steam and GOG, nothing else except the casual web browsing. I have been driving Arch btw and was fine, but these days you CAN install Windows 11 locally without Microsoft account. So I took it a shot for better game compatability.

This is not Linux/Window flame. I am trying to say, local account is possible and is working.

mafuy2• 1 month ago

Afaik local accounts have become harder and harder to create, intentionally, to the point where it's impossible for most people. It most definitely is not something that can be relied on to exist in the future.

Telaneo5• 1 month ago

It's certainly possible, but it certainly ain't a happy path. If you have to do shift+F10, strategically disconnect your ethernet cable, or remember to tick a box when making your bootable USB to be able to make local account, something has gone terribly, horribly wrong.

neuropacabra2• 1 month ago

True

zombot• 1 month ago

The operative question is: Will it make them draw any consequences?

stainablesteel• 1 month ago

this is among the same kind of problem that people have with facebook and google, and these "login with your ___ account" problems

if so much of your life is centralized through a few accounts, then these companies shouldn't have a legal right to ban you from using it

roody15• 1 month ago

Yes it’s hard to see Microsoft become what feels to me a shell of what it once was. Back in the day I got MCP certification and MCSA certification for server 2008/2003.

I managed fleets of windows devices and felt Windows and PC’s were efficient and had a good balance of an operating system and schema that is powerful and effective.

With windows 11.. it’s like an all time low emerged. Where I am just fighting against a platform trying a variety of gimmicks designed to extra rents and push tools that are not really all that useful or polished.

Windows 11 feels bloated and just feels like a struggle.

For me it really is the time of Linux. Whether it be a workstation, a server or even a simple kiosk… Linux just seems to embrace the ethos of what windows has left behind.

ta8903• 1 month ago

I hope more people boycott products that require making an account to use. Most developers who would care about this sort of thing seem to draw the line at requiring a subscription, but IMO requiring an account is just as bad. There are cases where you do need an account for syncing data or whatever, but I don't see why I need an account for a fitness tracker, just show me the stats on the watch itself. Worst example of this is phones requiring an account to let you install apps, how did we let them get away with this?

breve• 1 month ago

"I don't need tips, I just want Microsoft to change it,"

They won't change it unless you give them a reason.

Switch to macOS or Linux. That will give them a reason.

liendolucas3• 1 month ago

A user can set up a computer with a Microsoft account, switch to using a PIN every day, and never think about that account again. Then, one day, after a firmware update, a hardware change, or an unexpected issue, the system may display a BitLocker recovery screen requesting a recovery key.

This is absolutely TRASH behavior. One of my siblings not only experienced this but after setting Bitlocker off it turned on ONCE AGAIN automatically after some time.

I urged him to print those fucking codes on paper just in case after we carefully recovered them. This is one of the worst things that can happen to a non technical user.

daemin4• 1 month ago

One thing I disagree with the article about is that drives should not be encrypted by default. For the vast majority of people an encrypted drive is just data loss lying in wait.

I prefer to use non-encrypted drives so I have the option of popping out the disk and reading it from another system with ease, which also means that I can recover files from drives of otherwise dead systems just as easily. This is a trade off I'm willing to make over losing access to data.

I understand business uses for it, and for that they have an IT team to manage key backup and backups in general. Plus when you're using company equipment it is theirs, not yours.

antiframe2• 1 month ago

I prefer to use non-encrypted drives so I have the option of popping out the disk and reading it from another system with ease, which also means that I can recover files from drives of otherwise dead systems just as easily.

Everyone has different security needs. But (maybe it's different on Windows), what's hard about popping the disk to another machine and then decrypting it with the key? Does Windows not give you access to the key?

okanat2• 1 month ago

Windows does give access to the key. The issue with Microsoft account and especially Windows Home onboarding is that it doesn't tell you that it encrypted the drive and there is a backup key (which it uploads to Microsoft account, often readable by authorities with a court order).

Many normie users not only get locked out of their laptops but they also forget their Microsoft account password causing complete loss of data.

smallnix• 1 month ago

popping out the disk and reading it from another system

The vast majority of people don't know that this is an option or how to do it.

recursive-call• 1 month ago

plus, my first windows machine went through a botched windows update and got stuck in an encryption key doom loop. now matter how many times i entered the key, it won’t let me into the computer. had to take it to the shop (tbf it had a lot of other issues too). when i got a new one the first thing i did was turn off encryption

seethishat• 1 month ago

It's really about personal privacy. Your computer is likely to be stolen and sold. If you don't want others reading your email, viewing your pictures, seeing your tax returns, etc. then you should encrypt the drive.

I call this "The Pawn Shop Threat Model" ;)

And, IME it is likely to happen.

brookst• 1 month ago

For the typical user, this is far far far more likely to happen than that they would “pop out” the drive and read it in another machine.

Defaults should be safe for most users. Power users are exactly the people who can deal with changing a setting. It’s constantly surprising to me when technical people insist that defaults should be optimized for technical people.

patrakov• 1 month ago

And the worst part is, I have seen computer repair shops that refuse to work with a laptop if it has an encrypted system drive, under the guise of "how would we then validate the fix?"

nandomrumber• 1 month ago

Your computer is likely to be stolen and sold.

No, it’s not.

nicoburns• 1 month ago

It's really about personal privacy. Your computer is likely to be stolen and sold. If you don't want others reading your email, viewing your pictures, seeing your tax returns, etc. then you should encrypt the drive.

There is a very real security vs. availability trade-off though. Is the average person more concerned with others reading their emails, viewing their pictures, seeing their tax returns, or are they more concerned with losing access to those things themselves?

Losing access to an encrypted drive is a very real possibility (people often forget their passwords, and are used to that being recoverable), and is the data loss is probably more impactful than privacy loss for many people.

docmars• 1 month ago

Surely not likely at all for a gaming desktop that's going nowhere in my home.

For business users with notebooks who fly around a lot or spend time in coffee shops, it's possible.

memcg3• 1 month ago

I have purchased 6 multi Tb external drives at estate sales. My son brought home a few from a summer working as a mover. In his experience it was divorcing spouses throwing out each others stuff.

All of these drives had Pii and personal photos. Some of the estate sale drives included pii of children and grandchildren.

JohnFen• 1 month ago

Your computer is likely to be stolen and sold.

Likely? How likely is it? I've never had a computer stolen, nor has anybody I personally know. So it doesn't seem to me like it's all that likely.

Personally, I find whole disk encryption to be more risky than it's worth. I much prefer encrypting things on a file-level instead.

thundercleeze• 1 month ago

Your computer is not "likely" to be stolen and sold.

abustamam2• 1 month ago

It's been a while since I've set up a windows machine and this may already be mentioned, but when I sign up for signal I got lots of warnings that were like "warning if you lose your phone and encryption key you will lose your data"

That way I know what I'm signing up for.

Just put "encrypt? Yes no" in the on-boarding flow and let people know what the risks are and what they may be protecting against. I'd probably default to off because people don't read wizards and the last thing someone wants is to lose their entire HDD because they accidentally made a decision they didn't understand.

And maybe for a certain period of time they can nudge users to read about encryption and decide if it's right for them, or just easily disable that nudge. Maybe even basic education like "if you find yourself forgetting your password often then maybe encryption is not for you" or something like that.

Windows is already optimized for extracting as much value from customers as possible, may as well help them make at least one informed decision.

jjav• 1 month ago

Your computer is likely to be stolen and sold.

Quite a stretch. In almost 50 years of using computers every day, never had one stolen.

greenicon• 1 month ago

Windows gives you recovery keys for each encrypted drive. With those you can even access tpm-protected drives on another machine.

I'd say it's mandatory today to encrypt drives. In the age of SSDs it's not really possible anymore to delete files and to be sure they are in no way recoverable by an adversary.

liendolucas3• 1 month ago

Users should be given a choice and clearly and concisely explain the consequences of choosing one or the other. Simple as that.

What it should definitely not happen is to do this behind scenes and store recovery codes on a microsoft account. Why those codes have to be stored on their servers?

A screen should display the recovery codes and instruct the user to print them and keep them in a safe place in case of requiring them. I should be able to recover my data completely offline. End of the story.

daemin4• 1 month ago

I believe users are given an option on Windows setup to encrypt the drive with Bitlocker or not. I've done an install in the last few months and seen it.

They should also be given an option of storing the keys in the cloud service tied to an account. Most would still click yes, but the fact that law enforcement can ask for those keys without your consent is an issue.

Here is a question for you though, you probably have those backup codes for services stored securely somewhere, but does everyone you know?

kubik3693• 1 month ago

Agreed, I have personally come to the same conclusion. I do not encrypt the drives in my home desktops and servers so that the recovery/migration is easier when the time comes. The risk of someone stealing my desktops from my home is very low and the impact of someone going through my family photos or Linux ISOs is nothing. I roll my eyes at my friend when he explains the solutions for how to input the encryption password when his server restarts.

At the time of writing, there are already other replies to this comment how "it's mandatory today to encrypt drives" without any qualifiers. I am growing more and more frustrated by people who try to force security measures like this "because it is more secure that way" without first taking a look at the risks, impacts and associated costs. I think they simply force these security measures on others to feel good about their choices.

It was a breath of fresh reasonability when I found out that apt intentionally uses only HTTP instead of blanket HTTPS everywhere because the packages are signed, therefore they can be verified by the client, and using HTTP allows easier caching with cache proxies and such.

microgpt• 1 month ago

I used to think that and then the authorities raided my house (for bullshit reasons that had nothing to do with me). Now I encrypt everything.

hellojesus4• 1 month ago

I roll my eyes at my friend when he explains the solutions for how to input the encryption password when his server restarts.

Isn't this rather trivial? You gen a keyfile, register it with luksAddKey, then update /etc/crypttab, no? The real concern is making sure that keyfile is stored securely, but you can simply symmetrically encrypt it and upload it to your favorite cloud storage provider.

yabones• 1 month ago

Obviously "physical access is full access", but it's shockingly easy to break into a Windows box if you have access to the unencrypted drive. I learned with I was a teenager how to use the recovery partition to mount the C: drive, then copy "cmd.exe" to "utilman.exe" or "sethc.exe" and get an instant root shell on the login page. Takes about 2-3 minutes, can be done in the time somebody leaves their laptop to go to the bathroom at Starbucks.

To me that's the main thing about disk encryption, it's to stop a nasty rootkit from being installed trivially as much as it is about stopping the guy at the pawn shop from getting your tax info. Whether you're on macos, linux, or windows, it's really quite easy to fully compromise a machine if you have hands on it.

hellojesus4• 1 month ago

Agreed, specifically about the tax info concerns. All my drives are encrypted with either luks, veracrypt, or native zfs encryption if my server data.

My primary concern is a robbery while I'm not home. It's trivial to break in, steal hard drives, and then go pop them into another machine on your own time to scan the files looking for tax or other sensitive docs.

While encryption keys are a risk, you can always save the random key file or passphrase in cloud storage (using symmetric encryption) and/or in your password manager.

saltcured• 1 month ago

My solution for your concerns is twofold:

1. Use a password-based encryption method (not tied to hardware identity) if you prioritize moving the disk around. Then it is just as readable in a spare machine.

2. Use an easy to remember password/passphrase and write it down somewhere you keep paper documents, if you prioritize recovery.

This still provides meaningful protection when you need to discard the drive. The random downstream recipient of the hardware will not know your password, even if you skip the step where you "crypto-shred" the drive by setting a new random password.

chaz6• 1 month ago

When an SSD fails it often reverts to read-only mode. The manufacturers may require you to return the drive to receive a replacement or refund. By which point it is too late. You now have the choice of potentially risking the disclosure of your personal data to a third-party (and your shipment could end up on a lost-parcel auction of it did not get delivered) or missing out on your warranty.

Terr_2• 1 month ago

Is there some problem with setting a passphrase for recovery, beyond just the risk of forgetfulness or loss?

I'm not sure how BitLocker compares with LUKS, but the ability to set (or revoke) multiple keys in the drive header gives a lot of flexibility.

For example, The same drive could be unlocked multiple ways:

* A passphrase that you memorize or metaphorically throw in a vault somewhere.

* A key tied to the hardware so that it is automatically supplied, or requires a lesser input like a PIN.

* Same as above, but added to support another computer you anticipate swapping the drive to.

thrownaway561• 1 month ago

I get all the hate with the requirements for Microsoft account, but I have to admit, they have made life easier.

Case in point, moving to a new computer is absolutely painless now with a Microsoft Account because of OneDrive and Winget.

Make sure that Onedrive is setup to backup all folder (desktop, documents, pictures. you can do this by clicking the gear icon and selecting Manage Backups)

Next have this simple batch file run whenever the user logs in. It basically uses winget to update all packages to the latest version and export a list of all those packages and save it onedrive

winget update --all --accept-package-agreements --accept-source-agreements --silent winget export -o "C:\Users\<user>\OneDrive\WingetPrograms.txt"

Now if you move computers, you just log in with your Microsoft account so that you will have your desktop and everything because onedrive will come over.

Now just do an import with Winget and you will have 95% of your programs installed. Yes I know there might be some programs that aren't available for installation through Winget, but almost ALL popular programs are available.

winget import -i "C:\Users\<user>\OneDrive\WingetPrograms.txt"

It's that simple. Something that use to take days now takes minutes and 3 commands. Plus the fact that everything is backed up to the cloud, you just can't beat it.

Yes I get the same stuff can be done with Google Drive, Dropbox replacing Onedrive. Chocolatey, ninite as a package manager instead of winget. Using Onedrive and winget are native and available on ANY Windows 11 machine and they WORK.

fortran773• 1 month ago

I don't know what the disconnect is. I'm running Windows 11 Arm right now on the best laptop I've ever owned -- an Asus Zenbook A16 with OLED screen and 48 GB of RAM (all for $1699).

It's super fast -- it beats a 2026 Macbook Pro rendering Blender "Classroom".

I have a Microsoft account, I don't know what the big deal is. I follow the happy path. It's nice to have settings (and I can control which ones) sync across machines. I pay for a Office365 subscription.

I don't see ads popping up anywhere. I did disable about a dozen things (those silly icons in the search bar, syncing desktop icons across machines, etc) all through exposed UI switches, no "hacks" or undocumented registry tweaks.

I've watched coworkers go through all sorts of contortions, and downloading hacked binaries from sketchy sites, just to avoid creating the local account and I'm not sure why. I use my name and info on my longstanding Microsoft account, but you can just as easily call one "mymaxasus_11111", and be done with it.

34679• 1 month ago

1. Personal Computers are personal. Inviting an outside observer into one is no different than inviting one into the bathroom. What I do in there is my business.

2. Friction. This is likely MS's attempt to slow-walk Windows into a subscription service. If nobody resisted, that walk wouldn't be slow.

projektfu• 1 month ago

Do you like coming back to your work and finding that it rebooted on its own schedule and lost your context? That's my biggest frustration. If I only had one computer, it would be fine, but I manage an organization that's too small for enterprise and so I have to deal with the silly ads and gizmos on a dozen computers, managing group policy requires a domain and a lot of expertise I shouldn't need, and I'm not even sure I can turn some of this stuff off using group policy.

By contrast, I got a few Chromebooks and all my employees prefer them. If it weren't for a few legacy things, I'd switch entirely to ChromeOS or ChromiumOS.

fortran773• 1 month ago

I run pro, so I have a group policy that eliminates forced reboots. For most users, forcing updates isn't a bad idea.

newtonianrules3• 1 month ago

Just install Ubuntu already (if it supports the apps you need, most of which probably have web versions) and be done with it. Ubuntu 26.04 had a significantly better install experience than Windows 11.

Ylpertnodi• 1 month ago

Ubuntu won't run my software of choice(s). Come on, Steinberg - we need a linux Cubase. Ms can go whistle, and my w10 machines are treated better than ever.

AnodicElegy• 1 month ago

This stuff drives me nuts. Chrome on desktop is another abhorrent example of this. Every time I log in to a Google account within the browser, it nags me to link the account to the browser itself. One time my partner clicked the popup that asks to link the account by accident (this is very easy to do and probably Google's intention) and it hijacked all of my bookmarks. When I logged out of the account, everything was gone. I looked into Firefox and Edge, but they have the same profile crap. I don't need or want to log in to my browser!

I've hit my limit with Microsoft, too. I'm going to start moving my PCs over to Linux. The last time I installed Linux on a personal device was in high school, almost two decades ago, and it took quite a bit of work to get everything running properly. I've heard that compatibility issues are much less prevalent now. If things to smoothly, I may even convert my main gaming and work PC, although I'll have to look more thoroughly into whether all my Steam games will be playable.

kristofferg• 1 month ago

I wish you a smooth transition. These days odds are everything will work out of the box.

drnick13• 1 month ago

Chrome on desktop is another abhorrent example of this.

Consider Chromium (the open source build) instead of Chrome when you migrate to Linux. It is in the main repo of most distributions. Chrome is literally spyware. Also Firefox (with the real uBlock Origin, not the watered down version for Chrome/Chromium) is excellent.

_-_-__-_-_-• 1 month ago

I've been a daily windows user since 1998. I'm a geek. So, of course, I experimented with other operating systems. I've had Mac OS X laptops since 2006 (off and on), but I always had a main windows desktop. In 2018, I installed Manjaro XFCE on my laptop and forced myself to learn Linux and use the system. Now, I still have a windows desktop, but my laptop and my server run Linux (Fedora and Ubuntu) and I go weeks without ever powering-on my windows box. It's really great!

techteach002• 1 month ago

I'm still on 10. Basically don't care about the security risks. I will be forced to do something once new games won't work with 10.

bastard_op• 1 month ago

Either you drink your Microsoft poison, or you leave.

kokada• 1 month ago

I think it is fair to encrypt the user hard drive since the majority of users are unaware that they're even leaking secrets and PII when e.g., they sell a laptop without wiping the disk first.

But I think it is also fair if the user was opening a CMD during install just to type `oobe /bypassnro` the user is advanced enough to understand the risks of not encrypting the hard drive (it is really easy to activate the BitLocker afterwards anyway, and for example in my case instead of storing the secret key in Microsoft I decided to store it in my password manager). So I really don't buy the excuses of this article.

Also WTH Microsoft, why it is so easy to reset the TPM key during e.g., a bios update and lose access to all your TPM keys (so you need to type your BitLocker key again). It should be a requirement from Microsoft laptops that the TPM contents are never lost unless the user explicitly asks for it.

Henchman21• 1 month ago

You’ve forgotten the most important fact: users don’t provide enough of a revenue stream. Therefore they aren’t represented at the table when decisions are being made that effect their fate.

Similar to how there is no actual citizen representation in the Congress of the US.

Now stop whining and get back to work.

JALTU• 1 month ago

Well now, let's not get our knickers in a twist! The beatings will continue until morale improves.

sporkland• 1 month ago

I just made a crappy Microsoft account that I don't check or tie to anything. I'm sure it will backfire at some point.

rldjbpin• 1 month ago

while i understand the sentiment to switch out, i find one thing quite intriguing. the same crowd (read the website title) is happy to create workarounds to make their workflow adapt to the new os. however, very minimal mention of the various efforts to bypass and disable annoyances m$ is throwing at us. even the article mentions the OOBE as a major point.

personally have been able to use windows without ever logging in since windows 8.1. the iot (embedded) version is the path of least resistance for most. it even contains old paint and calculator from windows 7! might be a skill issue, but i've found it easier to debloat once than to figure out fractional scaling in linux.

Windows 11 users are tired of MS account requirements creeping into everything

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