Not setting up Find My bricked my MacBook

https://www.tokyodev.com/articles/not-setting-up-find-my-bricked-my-macbook

by pwim • 3 years ago

419 551 3 years ago

tokyodev.com

DonHopkins2• 3 years ago

That title is a very hard to parse sentence.

lbotos• 3 years ago

Yes! I feel like Not setting up Apple's "Find My" ended up bricking my Macbook is easier to parse?

codetrotter9• 3 years ago

Only if you are not familiar with Find My.

jojobas2• 3 years ago

Which is like everyone outside the Apple Reality Distortion Field.

bagels• 3 years ago

Laptop stickers, and don't let your belongings out of your sight at the airport.

placesalt• 3 years ago

I was going to post the same thing.

A moral of the story is: put a sticker on the cover of your laptop. Similarly, a bit of flagging tape[1] on luggage isn't a bad idea. Having an expensive and precious belonging that looks exactly the same as an uncountable number of other people's belongings is, on the face of it, unwise.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flagging_(tape)

jabroni_salad• 3 years ago

I wrap the handles of all my travel stuff in patterned washi tape. Multiple times at luggage return I have seen someone else pick it up and then immediately set it back down.

jojobas2• 3 years ago

Better yet, don't use hardware backdoored at the factory.

lolinder2• 3 years ago

Not an option for a lot of people who don't get to choose what they use for work.

grecy3• 3 years ago

don't let your belongings out of your sight at the airport.

I try extremely hard to do this, but last time I flew it was chaos at the x-ray, and my laptop got way ahead of me, and was sitting on the other side for at least a few minutes before I was able to get through and get it.

Sometimes, there is nothing you can do.

jms7032• 3 years ago

Get TSA precheck. Your laptop stays in the bag.

pwim6• 3 years ago

Yes, I was kicking myself for not putting a sticker on it. I didn't mention it in the article, but I was going through security with my young child, so it was a bit of a hectic situation to begin with.

mmcgaha• 3 years ago

I came looking exactly for this comment to vote up. I am 50 and I sicker up my laptop like a middle-schooler's trapper keeper.

RcouF1uZ4gsC• 3 years ago

Reading this actually makes me feel more secure about my Mac laptop.

It seems that social engineering attacks on Find My are pretty well guarded against.

Just remember to set up Find My.

kelsey98765435• 3 years ago

they kept the unlocked laptop and bought an icloud locked device on ebay and sent that one to you, thats why it took a long time and they wouldnt return it to their airport.

toomuchtodo2• 3 years ago

Author would be able to check the hardware serial number to what they bought from and that receipt, no?

kelsey98765435• 3 years ago

Apple confirmed it didn't match with "If you need help removing Activation Lock and have proof of purchase documentation, you can start an Activation Lock support request." -> "We are unable to process your request at this time."

upon_drumhead• 3 years ago

It’s etched in the bottom of the laptop and I think is easily swapped between chassis.

teaearlgraycold3• 3 years ago

Why? Just so they could have a higher specc’d machine?

bentley• 3 years ago

Profit. A locked device that can’t be unlocked is unusable, probably stolen, and therefore cheap. An unlocked device is worth something.

s3p3• 3 years ago

It doesn't matter, they didn't do this. OP confirmed it was the original serial on the mac he got. HN is full of useless rabbitholes...

90-00-09• 3 years ago

That's a good guess! Checked eBay and iCloud locked M2 MacBooks Air go for around $400.

worik7• 3 years ago

What are they useful for?

pwim6• 3 years ago

The serial number matches mine. I suppose they could have scratched it off and repainted it, but that seems doubtful.

duskwuff• 3 years ago

Is it possible that they swapped the lower case? It's easy to remove.

peyton5• 3 years ago

It’s possible they took it to a local shop that paid them and swapped out the internals with a stolen laptop’s. The external case returned to you would be the same.

coder5432• 3 years ago

I think your second theory about how Activation Lock turned on is the most likely. My understanding is that if Find My wasn't active, then Activation Lock also wasn't enabled. The person who incorrectly received the laptop probably wiped it and set it up under their personal account, activating Find My + Activation Lock.

If the laptop had originally had Activation Lock enabled, the unintended recipient would not have been able to do this, and as a bonus, the location of the laptop would have been trackable.

So, I don't think they had to swap the laptop out for another Activation Locked laptop... they probably locked it themselves, whether intentionally or not.

npsomaratna• 3 years ago

Came here to say this. My understanding is that locked Macbooks are unusable, only have salvage value, and are therefore sold at pennies on the dollar. (Many such laptops are quite likely stolen.)

When the OP mentioned a different login, etc, I started to wonder if he'd been sent a different laptop. This fits in with the other guy asking OP to cover the courier costs, etc.

s3p3• 3 years ago

Serial is on the bottom of the case of the laptop. OP would be able to see the serial of the mac he bought either from his original order email or from his list of signed-in apple devices, which he mentioned his mac still showed up on.

jameshart6• 3 years ago

The bottom case being the piece of the laptop that can be removed by undoing eight screws?

Swapping the plates on a MacBook seems like a pretty easy move.

CrendKing• 3 years ago

What stops them from just keeping the laptop altogether? Unless the departing airport is also in UAE, I highly doubt the airport would send interpol to confiscate a laptop.

Since they did return the laptop, maybe assuming benevolence is way to go? It took them long time maybe because they waited the airport to send their laptop back first.

peyton5• 3 years ago

It’s the UAE. Deportation risk.

kelsey98765435• 3 years ago

Likely the airport looked at footage and made a strongly worded request to return the property or face some legal charge.

e28eta• 3 years ago

included having them use remote access on my iPhone.

I don’t understand what this refers to

teaearlgraycold3• 3 years ago

Apple support can view a live stream of your iPhone screen. They used this to confirm what the author saw in their iCloud account.

ayewo• 3 years ago

Really? Where can I read more about this?

mjg59• 3 years ago

Very small nit: there's a reference to the Apple T2 chip. The Apple Silicon devices don't have a T2 - the functionality is integrated directly into the SoC. If it had been a T2 device then it would be possible to "simply" jailbreak the T2 and wipe all enrolled ownership data, since the T2 is based on the Apple A10 and has the same bootrom vulnerability.

lmm3• 3 years ago

Since Apple isn’t able to handle legitimate requests to disable the Activation Lock like mine, you should turn on Find My on your own MacBook, or risk it becoming a brick like mine.

Why do people accept this nonsense when it's Apple? They wouldn't for any other company.

You bought and paid for a laptop from them. It's broken. You've gone through their process and they haven't fixed it. At that point you escalate to a credit card chargeback and/or small claims court.

Veliladon• 3 years ago

Why do people accept this nonsense when it's Apple? They wouldn't for any other company.

Because 99% of the time it saves one's ass.

Three times now I've left my iPad in a shopping cart. All three times my phone has gone "WAIT! WHERE'S THE IPAD?" as I left the parking lot and all three times I was able to retrieve the iPad.

anigbrowl2• 3 years ago

...why would you leave a tablet or a laptop in a shopping cart?! I don't mean 'why did you forget', why would you leave it out of your hand at all, or leave anything in a shopping cart? I pull out my phone to check a price or product specification sometimes when shopping, but then I put it back in my pocket, not in my grocery basket.

zakki2• 3 years ago

OP didn't ask for the benefit of Find My. I guess it is more on customer's rights.

MrVandemar2• 3 years ago

A quick look at the Australian Apple store shows iPads are AU$749.00.

Why would you put goods to the value of $749 in your shopping cart, much less leave it behind there?

It saves your ass, yeah, but maybe you should ask yourself if you would have learned a better lesson leaving it in there once and losing it forever and then being more careful in future.

ddingus9• 3 years ago

People accept it because they believe in the security model.

For a lot of those people, the security model just works. Same for their online activities and apps.

There are at least these scenarios:

They have been helped by the model. Yay Apple!

Nothing has happened to them yet. Yay Apple, and surely Apple being so great is why.

They have been burned by the model. BOO Apple!

Fact is the machine is not broken and is working as designed.

The owner did not take full advantage of the security and left the door open for someone else to walk through.

No judgment on the owner.

Now Apple? Yeah, a bit too draconian for me.

And I am on the other side of this mess. Bought a very new M1 Air from them. Cheap because the owner had died and nobody knew the password.

Interestingly, I had booted into recovery mode, and I found I could mount the SSD and a USB thumb drive which let me pull docs, pictures and such for them.

After that, I was able to boot into installing a fresh OS, supply my Apple ID and use the computer just fine...

Had it been in lost or stolen status? Probably would not have worked out..

At the time, I gave security a lot of thought. The Apple stuff is good enough people really do need to understand it or risk bad scenarios like this.

(I turned Find on)

My daily driver is a lenovo. The Apple is a fun machine for me.

You asked why. Hope this helps.

ohhnoodont• 3 years ago

Interestingly, I had booted into recovery mode, and I found I could mount the SSD

I was under the impression that Apple Silicon Macbooks had disk encryption enabled by default and that this wouldn't be possible. Turns out while that is technically true, it's only relevant in the case of the SSD somehow being removed from the device and installed in another. In the case of real disk encryption FileVault needs to be enabled. Apparently it's easy to miss that step during setup, especially if you setup the Macbook without an Apple ID/iCloud.

Gigachad4• 3 years ago

This seems to be an extremely rare situation. OP did not lock the device to their account and left it free. Someone else picked it up, wiped it, and locked it to their own account. That stranger could have also poured apple juice on the macbook or just not responded to the request to send it back. Once someone else has their hands on your device, there is a risk it's just gone.

As a Macbook user I'm not at all concerned about this happening to me since I have find my set up and my mac has stickers on it so I can clearly identify it as mine and avoid this mixup.

And I also benefit from the theft resistance features.

pests2• 3 years ago

It's not gone though. He has it back.

paulddraper4• 3 years ago

That stranger could have also poured apple juice on the macbook

That didn't happen.

or just not responded to the request to send it back

That didn't happen either.

chongli• 3 years ago

Why do people accept this nonsense when it's Apple?

Because it's a very effective theft deterrent. All of my Apple devices have Find My turned on. If someone steals my MacBook or my iPhone, I can track them with the app. I can also remote wipe the device and brick it until my password is entered. If Apple agreed to remove the Activation Lock for the thief then they would get the full benefit of stealing it. Since Apple has an ironclad policy of refusing to remove the lock, there is nothing a thief can do to remove it.

If the thief cannot unbrick the device in any way, it is worthless to them. This deters stealing.

jb19917• 3 years ago

It works too:

"Apple’s Activation Lock Leads To Big Drops In Smartphone Theft Worldwide"

https://techcrunch.com/2015/02/11/apples-activation-lock-lea...

pwim6• 3 years ago

I'm in Japan. From what I've heard, chargebacks are nearly impossible to initiate here. Besides, I bought it with a corporate debit card, so it wasn't an option either.

With small claims court, I doubt my Japanese fluency is sufficient, and researching how to go about it would take more time than it is worth.

The article was worth my time because it makes others aware of the situation.

solardev8• 3 years ago

Have you tried dealing with support for any electronics company? They're all bad and it takes a lot of arguing to get anything done, even when you pay for the extended corporate support.

lmm3• 3 years ago

Have you tried dealing with support for any electronics company? They're all bad and it takes a lot of arguing to get anything done

Right, which is why you need to be prepared to escalate and not put up with their crap. Apple's no different from the others.

PeterStuer2• 3 years ago

The weirdest Apple cult thing I ever witnessed: A colleague at university, when the transparant bubblegum all in one line of Mac's launched bought 4 for personal use to 'support Apple'.

Veen• 3 years ago

That attitude was more common years ago when Apple was beleaguered and in real danger of going out of business. People who grew up with Macs and preferred the hardware and OS didn’t want it to go away, so they made efforts to support it. I don’t think it’s as common an attitude post-iPhone.

chrisandchris• 3 years ago

Why do people accept this nonsense when it's Apple? They wouldn't for any other company. [...]

Said no one ever while setting up Windows 11, which forces one to use a Microsoft account, or otherwise you just can't use your device.

It's not all the same, but people accept a lot of nonsense from a lot of companies just because "can't do anyway nothing against it".

stockboss• 3 years ago

you can actually set up a local account for Windows which doesn't require a MS account, which is what I did after they arbitrarily suspended my account. But yes, they intentionally make it more onerous than it has to be to do so.

mdekkers2• 3 years ago

Since Apple isn’t able to handle legitimate requests to disable the Activation Lock like mine, you should turn on Find My on your own MacBook, or risk it becoming a brick like mine.

Or don’t buy overpriced gear from a company that is aggressively user-hostile. Take them to some kind of small claims court. It is your device, you purchased it from them, and they have no right to refuse to un-brick if they have the ability to do so, just because you didn’t do the magic handshake in the right way.

s3p3• 3 years ago

Or don’t buy overpriced gear from a company that is aggressively user-hostile.

This adds nothing to the conversation. Saying "Just stop using it", when 'it' is the most popular mobile phone in the US and one of the dominant computer manufacturers in the world is a gross oversimplification. You say it's that easy, but it isn't. And you know that.

perryizgr82• 3 years ago

You say it's that easy, but it isn't.

If it is easy, then people should do it (don't buy from Apple if you want to own your hardware).

If it is not easy, Apple is abusing their market dominance and should be regulated accordingly.

mdekkers2• 3 years ago

“Stop buying their stuff” is a perfectly valid action to take, especially when many alternatives abound.

As computer manufacturers, they are not even in the top 3, with less than 10% market share in terms of units shipped.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Market_share_of_personal_com...

Your argument isn’t based on valid assumptions.

millzlane4• 3 years ago

I don't understand why if you have the invoice apple won't remove the FMM activation lock from the device.

I have gotten apple to unlock devices just with screenshots of them being managed in an MDM at one time and a copy of my work badge.

An invoice is like the golden ticket they require that you have.

CamperBob2• 3 years ago

"Because FY, that's why. We don't have to care. We're literally the phone company." - Apple

millzlane4• 3 years ago

Brought to you by Carls Jr. "FY, I'm eating"

kube-system9• 3 years ago

They really shouldn't. An invoice does not prove current ownership. It proves historical ownership.

markus92• 3 years ago

So what way could you prove current ownership?

r00fus• 3 years ago

But what if you sold it for cash? For all Apple knows that's what happened in the poster's case (he sold it, then somehow got physical access again, then wants to steal the other person's data)

I really see no way for Apple to support the use-case of someone who a) doesn't want to use Find My and b) loses their Mac where another party activates Find My and c) regains access.

You really need to be in the a+b+c situation which is quite rare.

mattigames• 3 years ago

It's a bit of a fantasy to believe Apple cares about second-hand purchases of Apple devices.

FireBeyond7• 3 years ago

The irony being that it's extremely trivial to completely/permanently bypass MDM on a Mac, even if you have an M1/M2. Took me about five minutes (and was not complicated) when dealing with an old work laptop that I had personal info on (I know I know) that I wanted to be sure was wiped before returning it.

millzlane4• 3 years ago

With apple DEP+MDM, You can wipe it no problem. It's trying to reinstall the OS and then activate it, is where it will fail. If you added your icloud account and turned on activation lock. The system is locked to your account. In that scenario, apple feels the device belongs to whoever locked it with their icloud account. Unless I can prove ownership of the device with a credit card statement, invoice, or MDM/DEP screenshots apple will tell me to kick rocks.

kube-system9• 3 years ago

Why would someone not set up activation lock? This is exactly what it is for!

An attacker could “prank” someone by wiping their MacBook, activating it with their own Apple ID, and then reporting it as lost. The victim then has no way to recover it.

When you lose physical control of a device, there's an even bigger denial-of-service vulnerability: https://media.istockphoto.com/photos/breaking-a-laptop-compu...

There is really no solving denial-of-service problems associated with losing a device. The priority in that case should be preventing unwanted disclosure of data, which is exactly what Apple did here.

pwim6• 3 years ago

I didn't set up "Find My". The connection with the Activation Lock wasn't obvious to me.

The main thing Apple emphasizes is that you can recover a missing device. But it wasn't obvious to me how that would work without an internet connection (unlike with an iPhone where I have a data plan).

Protecting unwanted disclosure of data is different than preventing the erasing of a device, which is where I'm stuck.

peyton5• 3 years ago

But it wasn't obvious to me how that would work without an internet connection

I believe Bluetooth pinging the iPhones of passersby.

kube-system9• 3 years ago

That's true, as I recall the explanation is pretty brief during setup and they should probably explain it better.

adastra222• 3 years ago

Yeah, I'm a lifelong user of apple products and I had no idea until your article that "Find My" was an activation lock. I thought it just reported your location to Apple, and so I turned it off for privacy reasons...

wannacboatmovie6• 3 years ago

The better question is why would someone buy a computer that is so user-hostile it requires "activation"?

Imagine buying a car that requires activation from the manufacturer, and they could permanently disable it at any time if someone stole it.

This place would be in hysterics, but since we're talking about HN's favorite computer company it's a different story.

kube-system9• 3 years ago

Because I want my laptop to be hostile any potential users other than me, the owner. Many other devices can be wiped and put back into service with physical access alone. This is a vulnerability because it makes the device valuable to thieves.

Imagine buying a car that requires activation from the manufacturer, and they could permanently disable it at any time if someone stole it.

This has been standard on GM vehicles for decades.

https://experience.gm.com/support/onstar-connected-services/...

Hamuko4• 3 years ago

One of the reasons for the activation lock is to deter people from stealing your laptop, since even if someone swipes your laptop from under your nose, they have a brick that they cannot use. Best they can do is cannibalize it for parts (and Apple is even trying to prevent that, for better and for worse).

JCharante2• 3 years ago

The better question is why would someone buy a computer that is so user-hostile it requires "activation"?

It's user hostile but owner friendly.

Imagine buying a car that requires activation from the manufacturer, and they could permanently disable it at any time if someone stole it.

I would absolutely buy that car. If you want it now, you can purchase OnStar [0] which proves that enough people want it. "Once law enforcement confirms your vehicle has been stolen, our Advisors use GPS to help authorities find your vehicle. But that’s just the beginning. When it’s safe, we’ll work with authorities to remotely slow it down.* And with Remote Ignition Block™,* we can also remotely prevent a thief from restarting your vehicle."

Tech geeks tend to assume everybody wants to live in anarchy. I absolutely think every car should have a remote slower to eliminate the risk of most car chases.

[0] https://www.onstar.com/services/stolen-vehicle-assistance

PinguTS2• 3 years ago

Such car exists. It is basically any modern car. Even your beloved Tesla. It needs an activation by Tesla and they can revoke that and lock it up at will.

You beloved Porsche is this way as a theft prevention, when you bought the right options.

IRC Renault doesn't sell you the battery for your electric car. You need to rent it. Then it is in the contract, that if you miss your payment that they can lock down the battery and as such the car.

lapcat2• 3 years ago

since we're talking about HN's favorite computer company

That's not even remotely true, as evidenced by many other comments on this submission.

A lot of people seem to think that HN has a consensus on various subjects, but I'd say a defining feature of HN is argumentation and lack of consensus.

unlikelytomato2• 3 years ago

Are we to suggest buying Microsoft instead? Windows login and forced Microsoft accounts are a thing. I try to justify buying anything but apple for every purchase. Unfortunately, everyone else insists on making their products worse at a faster rate than apple.

wkat42424• 3 years ago

Since Apple isn’t able to handle legitimate requests to disable the Activation Lock like mine, you should turn on Find My on your own MacBook, or risk it becoming a brick like mine.

Or not buy MacBooks anymore. I don't want my computer doing anything out of my control.

michaelsshaw2• 3 years ago

Apple products being bricks described as "functioning as intended and therefore a good thing" by Apple fanatics is laughable

bitwize• 3 years ago

It is a good thing. The most valuable bit of the computer is the data on it. Apple security:

* can prevent the data from falling into the wrong hands

* significantly reduces the value of a stolen machine, which acts as a theft deterrent

jameshart6• 3 years ago

When your laptop has been out of the country in the hands of a stranger for an extended period, it's very much out of your control what it does.

worik7• 3 years ago

When your laptop has been out of the country in the hands of a stranger for an extended period, it's very much out of your control what it does.

Yes.

I'd format it

But that was not an option (?) here

kaba06• 3 years ago

I don't want my computer doing anything out of my control

So, you want Activation Lock, otherwise some random person can steal it and do whatever they want?

wkat42424• 3 years ago

No, I'd want the ability to encrypt it fully, the rest doesn't really matter. I'd also want the ability to enter a (separate from my user password) decryption key on every bootup (which Macs did in fact have until recently!)

As this article shows, Apple is locking the legitimate user out. They care more about their brand perception than their customers.

codetrotter9• 3 years ago

I also needed to pay ¥11,100 of import duties on it - it didn’t seem to matter that the MacBook was mine.

I traveled to Mexico a few weeks ago. In my luggage I had two MacBook Pro laptops and an old ThinkPad. To my dismay the people at the airport in Mexico demanded quite a bit of money, telling me that because I had brought more than one laptop I had to pay import taxes. I am a tourist from Europe traveling with three laptops. I begrudgingly paid up. It’s abusive and stupid to demand import taxes in situations both like that in the OP story and like they did from me.

kelsey98765435• 3 years ago

Imagine if people from dubai complained about having to pay import taxes to bring a few extra ferraris into the states, we would call them insane, yet a macbook is likely many months comfortable living in most of mexico.

zbrozek• 3 years ago

If they were then turning around and taking them back out after their stay, that seems like a perfectly reasonable complaint.

dxyms• 3 years ago

You don’t tourist travel with your ferrari. You import them and pay taxes. Not the same thing.

C4K3• 3 years ago

You don't have to pay import taxes to bring ferraris in if it's just temporary for a vacation.

See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Customs_Convention_on_the_Temp...

PinguTS2• 3 years ago

Normally, in any country of the world, you do not pay taxes on things, you import just temporary.

I doesn't matter if it is an Ferrari just for pleasure or if it is a new machine you bring in for a trade show for your business. The thing is, that you need to make a customs declaration (and not the easy one that you normally do at the airport as a traveller). You do the full declaration including information for which reason you are importing, when you will export it again, including all the tax codes. Then when you leave you need to declare the export.

briankelly• 3 years ago

They assume you are going to be working when you have multiple laptops like that. Sort of a faulty way for them to collect taxes from the nomad/expat crowd who are skirting income taxes.

zakki2• 3 years ago

The problem is, once the tourists leave the airport, who knows that the tourists will sell the laptop? Thus it is like importing a laptop.

codetrotter9• 3 years ago

I asked them if I show the laptops and the receipt for the import tax when I leave the country, will they refund the import tax.

Nope, that will not happen they told me.

If it was true that it was to avoid that I sell any of the laptops, it should also be possible to get the import taxes refunded upon leaving the country with the same laptops. But such is not the case :(

doctorpangloss• 3 years ago

In the interest of curiosity, everyone should read more about the situation - political, economic, etc. - of Mexico in order to understand the sincerity of a policy like import taxes on extra tourist laptops.

grecy3• 3 years ago

I also needed to pay ¥11,100 of import duties on it - it didn’t seem to matter that the MacBook was mine.

I hate this too.

I've sent quite a few things from one country to another - from myself, to myself. I own the things, I bought them years ago in the country I'm sending them to, took them in luggage when leaving, but am now sending it snail mail back.

They demand I pay import duties, even when I have receipts showing I own it and bought it years ago in the country they want duties.

I've never been able to get out of it, and I've spent hundreds of hours trying.

Xenoamorphous• 3 years ago

Or if you buy something from abroad and have to pay import duties, if you return the item you’d think you’d get the duties cost back, but nope.

rjst01• 3 years ago

There are ways to do it, but it probably requires an expert in customs law to get the paperwork filed correctly.

When I moved from Australia to Sweden I shipped about half a shipping container worth of personal items -clothing, furniture, books, electronics - and I didn't have to pay any import duty apart from a small processing fee.

folmar• 3 years ago

If you don't want to pay duties and plan on getting the equipment back from the trip you should get an ATA Carnet.

codetrotter9• 3 years ago

Thank you, that is great advice. I had not heard about it before but the Wikipedia article seems to indicate that this is exactly what I should have gotten. Will remember that for future trips.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ATA_Carnet

dbg31415• 3 years ago

If you haven't been to Mexico before, the cops there aren't above soliciting bribes.

I've had multiple laptops with me (for me an a girlfriend) and never gotten hit with this "import tax" issue.

But it's my experience that every cop in Mexico will try and hit you up for $50 -- and aren't above making up any reason to claim you owe money.

Tourists will likely pay whatever small fines or taxes on the spot. There's no alternative or recourse really... other than to just avoid Mexico.

It's a great country, with a lot of wonderful people, but it's run by a wholly corrupt government and police force.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Police_corruption_in_Mexico

mickelsen2• 3 years ago

Several times I've travelled with three to Chile, always one is a new purchase, the other two usually work + personal. And 2-3 smartphones and a camera, same flight. Never really had a problem. I guess if they all were BNIB they'd ask questions, but none of my friends have had issues with their gear or their shopping, yet it's usually a different story with places like Argentina or Mexico. They do ask in Chile about possible odd luxury items that stand out, like art or golf clubs, not so much about personal jewellery tho.

voltagex_• 3 years ago

Apple creating e-waste like this should negate every single claim they make about environmental friendliness.

pierat• 3 years ago

Yet another company whom never relinquishes real ownership when they "sell" it.

At best, any Apple "purchase" is at best a rental.

Stallman is right. And always has been with tech.

dagmx3• 3 years ago

The owner lost his device after declining to setup security. Someone else claimed it and set up those security measures.

Unless Stallman believes that users aren’t allowed to set up security, then none of what you said is really relevant.

worik7• 3 years ago

Stallman is right. And always has been with tech.

Love RMS

But no, he is not right always...

tedunangst• 3 years ago

An attacker could “prank” someone by wiping their MacBook, activating it with their own Apple ID, and then reporting it as lost. The victim then has no way to recover it.

An attacker can also prank you by running a drill through your laptop.

I feel like this story is just a longer version of "I left my laptop at the airport and never saw it again." The moral should be don't let your laptop leave the airport without you.

jameshart6• 3 years ago

Should have been a travel insurance claim.

This person lost their laptop at an airport - to all intents and purposes it was stolen. They even bought a replacement on the assumption they weren't going to see it again.

The person who returned the laptop returned an unusable MacBook that Apple refuses to even confirm is the original laptop that belonged to them. In addition they incurred shipping and import costs to have this brick shipped. But they don't have their laptop back in working order, so... effectively that laptop was stolen and destroyed, just as surely as if a stranger at the airport had grabbed it and smashed it in front of them.

Let the insurance company deal with this stuff.

monsieurbanana2• 3 years ago

Realistically, can this result in anything else besides the insurance company laughing at you?

jameshart6• 3 years ago

An Allianz OneTrip Premiere trip insurance covers $2000 for loss or theft of baggage and personal effects. They reported the loss to airport security. Getting a written notice of that report ought to be enough to file a claim.

pwim6• 3 years ago

Unfortunately, this wasn't covered by the travel insurance that goes along with my credit card.

I didn't purchase additional travel insurance, and I'm in the fortunate position that I can eat the cost of a replacement, so it probably isn't worth it.

gureddio2• 3 years ago

I really take issue with the idea that your travel insurance will save you in a case like this. It's almost a naive position to take. Travel insurance is notoriously exclusionary when it comes to individual items, especially high value items.

Travel insurance is probably one of the most least likely types of insurance where there will be a positive outcome for the consumer.

eptcyka4• 3 years ago

Are there other solutions to remedy the pain? Yes. Could they not just get back the same laptop they already have? Most definitely.

Whenever there's a story shared on HN that implies a negative sentiment towards an Apple policy, people come out of the woodwork talking about how we can work around the policy or why Apple has to do it the way everyone hates. Why? Why does the biggest company in the world get volunteers spitshining their PR?

Aeolun3• 3 years ago

Apple has to do it the way everyone hates to prevent apple device owners from being regular victims of armed robbery.

lozenge• 3 years ago

Are you suggesting the recipient found another Activation Locked laptop, presumably stolen, that somebody was keeping "for parts", swapped the keyboard for a Japanese keyboard, sent OP that locked laptop and wiped/kept their laptop?

bluepizza• 3 years ago

Considering how long it took for the laptop to be returned and Apple's resistance in removing the lock, it is possible that the recipient waited until an acquaintance returned from Japan carrying a similar laptop (acquired cheaply or even for free due to the lock), and simply shipped that to OP.

mikeryan3• 3 years ago

I’m a bit confused.

According to Apple’s documentation Activation lock is enabled when you turn on Find My Mac and disabled when turned off.

https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT208987

How did it get activated in the first place if it the author never set up “Find My”?

Gigachad4• 3 years ago

From the post it sounds like the person who picked it up wiped the laptop and set up activation lock with their own account.

mikeryan3• 3 years ago

Ah that makes sense.

That might explain why Apple won’t deactivate it. They don’t have a way of knowing if the OP sold it to someone and “stole” it back.

If the guy who got is legit OP may want to reach back out to that guy and ask him if that’s the case the guy who had it may be able to disable it from Find My.

pwim6• 3 years ago

I'm confused about it to. I suggested some possibilities in the "How did it get locked in the first place?" of the article.

mattcantstop• 3 years ago

I had a similar issue with Apple a few days ago. I was running and an AirPod fell out of my ear and I just happened to be by a drainage drain. It fell through the grate. I immediately rode my bike to the Apple Store (still with a working case and left AirPod) and purchased a replacement right AirPod. The Apple person who helped disconnected the left one and told me to have it plugged in for 30 minutes so the case and AirPods could reconnect and connect to my phone.

Except they didn't. I brought it back to Apple after lots of phone calls and troubleshooting and Apple has now told me that something must have gotten messed up with the software. I am able to buy a new pair of AirPods if I would like to, or I can spend $250 for them to diagnose the issue (the price of a new set of AirPods).

I can't imagine having a problem like this that seems so obvious to be a software bug and passing that cost down to the consumer instead of making it right. I left the Apple Store in a worse situation than when I arrived. I had a working case and one working AirPod. I left with having spent $90 on my replacement AirPod, with none of them working.

I worked at Apple years ago in Apple Retail. I am shocked the people there thought this was the right approach to take. I love Apple products, but this is making me rethink the Apple ecosystem. I am certainly not buying another pair of AirPods. The environmental impacts of this also irk me. Instead of trying to solve the problem they want me to just throw away my AirPods and buy new ones.

If a company has a software issue and pushes the cost of that bug onto the consumer the company is incredibly unlikely to ever solve it. Apple pushed the pain point of their software issue onto the consumer. That's a painful experience as a customer.

BoorishBears• 3 years ago

Have you tried just pairing them again like-new? As in put both in one case, close it, open it, and hold the sync button until it glows white?

I've personally lost more Airpods than I want to admit and now have roving pairs of unpaired AirPods in my apartment, which I randomly re-pair when I'm in a hurry and don't want to find the correct pair.

I'd imagine that's as much of a torture test for the pairing system as could exist and it still works...

asvitkine• 3 years ago

Can you not return at least the replacement AirPod you bought at least for a refund? Not sure where you are, but there are usually consumer protection laws that require that to be possible.

Nextgrid• 3 years ago

I've had the exact same issue and this was the resolution - they swapped the replacement AirPod again and the new replacement worked as expected.

millzlane4• 3 years ago

They should be able to. It would be classified as a repeat repair or DOA. To get a replacement airpod they have to create a repair. Almost all of the "repairs" are covered by a 90 day warranty.

heavyset_go4• 3 years ago

I have an iPad I left on a shelf for a while that is now a paperweight because during that time, in what I assume was a transition from iTunes to Apple accounts, the account it was logged into ceased to exist.

I was actually able to reregister an account using the same email address as the one I previously had, thinking maybe that would work, but still couldn't log back in.

MrVandemar2• 3 years ago

In other words: you don't own the device you paid for.

ValentineC2• 3 years ago

Did a restore not work?

Sounds like it happened around 2011 when iCloud was introduced [1], but way before Activation Lock was a thing (that happened in 2013 [2]).

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ICloud

[2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IOS_7

gumby• 3 years ago

I thought you could just hold the button on the back to factory reset?

paulmd5• 3 years ago

It probably does still work, but you need to append the one-time icloud passcode to the login password.

AnonHP• 3 years ago

I worked at Apple years ago in Apple Retail.

You haven’t said if you emailed Tim Cook to see if they take it more seriously. I’ve read anecdotes of some people getting their problems solved by writing to some top names at Apple. No guarantee that it’d work, but it’s worth a try.

jb19917• 3 years ago

Steve Jobs used to occasionally reply directly to tech support emails, for better or for worse.

KennyBlanken4• 3 years ago

Or, more simply: go back to the store, calmly tell them that your property was made non-functional by their staff, and you want them to make right on that.

If they decline, calmly say you'll resolve the matter in small claims court with a suit for damaging your property.

People: stop letting corps push you around. Exercise your rights.

mckn1ght8• 3 years ago

I wonder if the new one is a different generation than your original set, I don’t think they’ll work together if that’s the case. They have tiny model numbers printed on them, do they match? They probably gave you the right one since they’d see the model you already owned in your profile and match it in their inventory, but maybe…

solardev8• 3 years ago

I don't think there's any company out there that would actually care to fix a situation like this. We're all just disposable customers to them...

happymellon• 3 years ago

Maybe, but I know that Google or Samsung don't care about me. There has never been any pretence that Hoover give much more than a Walmart greeter level of concern for you, Microsoft would throw you under a bus for an extra cent.

Americans seem to think that Apple really cares about them and not just in a way to extract as much as possible from your wallet.

jakewins• 3 years ago

My experience with pretty much any consumer company is the opposite? They generally help out.

Random example: I had an expensive Sonos speaker just the other week that broke in a move across the Atlantic. Sonos support helped for nearly an hour trying reset options, then gave me a 30% discount coupon for any product, even though the speaker was long out of warranty.

hnlmorg2• 3 years ago

In Europe you’d be covered under consumer protection laws.

I have no idea how a case like this would play out in the US. But it certainly feels like something that should be illegal.

dpc0505052• 3 years ago

A climbing equipment company (camp) replaced a carabiner free of charge for damage I had caused to it due to my own fault.

It's a few bucks of aluminum, but they've guaranteed more loyalty than they already had.

NullPrefix• 3 years ago

something must have gotten messed up with the software [...] I can spend $250 for them to diagnose the issue

It's a choice you made when buying apple

autoexec3• 3 years ago

This is why I love wired headphones. Even if I lose them, I can replace them quickly for a lot less than $250 and I never have to worry about syncing or batteries or disconnecting or any of the other problems that routinely plague bluetooth devices.

drstewart• 3 years ago

are you under the mistaken impression that the cheapest pair of wireless earbuds is $250?

jb19917• 3 years ago

There are pros and cons, sure. But AirPods are actually very nice.

dguest• 3 years ago

They do indeed have a lot of nice features:

- Intuitive pairing interface

- Built in lanyards

- Excellent bass response

- Standard connection protocol

- Infinite battery life

- Unbreakable encryption

Wires can be great. Unfortunately it seems like high quality wired ear buds are getting harder to find: a lot of distributors seem to have swapped them out for the wireless version of the same product.

stavros3• 3 years ago

I bought wireless headphones (for $20!) because I got tired of getting tangled up in the cable and yanking the headphones (or my phone) away when cycling, and never looked back.

littlecranky67• 3 years ago

Best of both worlds: I got a Fiio BTR 5 [0] and now headphones become "wireless" when I want. Plus, use them as HQ DAC on your laptop or phone in non-wireless mode.

[0] https://www.fiio.com/btr5

edude03• 3 years ago

Not sure why the price is relevant here, I use wired headphones and they’re (moondrop variations) about 500 USD.

They’re also less convenient since I “need” an external dongle to drive them and a lightning to usb adapter.

Basically there are trade offs both ways

earthboundkid• 3 years ago

My rule is use wireless headphones for phones and wired headphones everywhere else. For a phone, the phone is in your pocket a lot, and having a wire from your pocket to your head is a pain, and you have to untangle it and whatnot.

For a laptop or desktop, the computer is open in front of you. The pairing and unpairing process to turn wireless headphones on and off is 5000x less convenient than just plugging headphones in. You don't need batteries for wired headphones and they never accidentally are connected or disconnected at the wrong time.

The physical difference of the two scenarios makes a big difference. Also maybe someday they will make a Bluetooth software stack that doesn't suck, but it hasn't happened yet.

taskforcegemini• 3 years ago

This is why I love wired headphones. Even if I lose them, I can replace them quickly for a lot less than $250 and I never have to worry about syncing or batteries or disconnecting or any of the other problems that routinely plague bluetooth devices.

I switched to bluetooth because I always broke my wires. however, I still manage to break wires in the bluetooth headphones (and I don't like the earpod type)

jonwest• 3 years ago

This plus a Qudelix5K is my headphones endgame at this point. I can’t stand TWS earbuds for many reasons, but having the ability to apply DSP tuning to whatever headphones I plug in, and still have “wireless” freedom has been great.

gnicholas• 3 years ago

or I can spend $250 for them to diagnose the issue (the price of a new set of AirPods).

FYI they are on sale right now for $199 on Amazon, and Costco has them for $10 less. Hopefully you can get Apple to do the right thing though! At the very least you should be able to "return" the AirPod you bought from them, since it doesn't actually work.

andyferris• 3 years ago

That sounds terrible.

In Australia at least I’d feel confident that getting in contact with the ACCC (govt consumer protection agency) would at least get that (eventually) resolved (new AirPods).

A software bug that bricks a new device is definitely a defect of workmanship and warranted for the expected life of the device.

averageRoyalty2• 3 years ago

Even threatening Apple with the ACCC is almost always enough to get a full repair or replace. ACCC policy is very clear and strict. If you have to go speak to the ACCC, Apple have likely already broken the law.

https://www.accc.gov.au/consumers/problem-with-a-product-or-...

keithalewis• 3 years ago

As Woz said at his funeral, "Steve gave us some of the greatest tools known to mankind: Apple fanboys."

MawKKe2• 3 years ago

any possibility that the apple rep screwed up and unpaired/replaced the wrong pod? i.e your "pair" would now have two pods, neither of which are actually associated with the hardware you have access to

vermilingua• 3 years ago

They wouldn’t fit in the case.

thepostman0• 3 years ago

You still love apple products? This sounds like Stockholm syndrome, I seriously mean that. You are paying your captors.

1122332• 3 years ago

When sonething Apple does not work (e.g. icloud sync) it simply does not work, there is nothing you can do.

If windows or linux does not work, there is easy 50 step manual fix on arch wiki, toutube, tomsguide (you have to try all to find the right one)

Do you know how nice is to be able to tell others, that there is nothing you can do, and mean it?

thinkingemote• 3 years ago

I think it's more like defence of investment. They have spent tens of thousands of money, time, knowledge on this brands ecosystem of devices and software. It's not just airpods it's the phone, watch, desktop, laptop, all the software purchased over their lifetime and the identity that goes along with it. In deciding to leave there's also future costs of moving to something more free but "worse".

The pain needs to be way greater than the cost of what they have invested. In a way they are not captors of peoples freedom but bankers who hold people's time, effort and money. Even with OP's case I can almost guarantee that whilst he might consider moving away from Apple because of his bricked laptop, he won't - he will side with his investments. Leaving this ecosystem would also cause psychological pain - its very hard to tell oneself that "I was wrong".

The genius is that Apple makes good stuff and they know that what they make "just works" and it all works great together and people will invest not only money but their very selves in the company. The company is the world biggest tech company for a reason.

mort962• 3 years ago

I don't understand how you draw a connection between this and Stockholm syndrome. "The products are great when they work, but Apple is horrible to deal with when something goes wrong" is a completely sensible opinion.

And after all, the 99% case is that things work well. Choosing products which are worse 99% of the time but where the company is more pleasant to work with in the 1% case where something goes wrong is a tough sell. (Omitted from this discussion is whether Apple products are truly better when they work or not. That's a wholly unproductive discussion which comes down to opinion and mattcantstop clearly thinks that they are.)

npteljes• 3 years ago

I think it's rather "pick your poison". It's not like there are non-sucky options available. And I mean this generally.

gureddio2• 3 years ago

All of these ecosystems have problems. I'm a long term Google Pixel user and I could list all of the irritating problems I've had over the years

handsclean• 3 years ago

Stockholm Syndrome was invented by a man who didn’t even talk to the people he accused of it, but simply asserted it as explanation for why former hostages were criticizing the police, while those former hostages were clearly stating that it was because the police were aggressive and irrational, escalating with acts like unnecessarily pointing guns, and generally disregarding the safety of the hostages. The only other famous case turned out to be acting under duress. It is to this date not a real psychological diagnosis.

Similarly, if you’d like to understand why people put up with Apple’s moderate abuse, maybe ask not how one might write them off as insane, but instead what their alternatives are.

mschuster91• 3 years ago

Hardware-wise it's hard to beat Apple on build quality and resale value. The software side though has really gone downhill.

cramjabsyn• 3 years ago

Oh please

leshenka• 3 years ago

Can't believe they can't just re-flash the firmware, shouldn't it take like five minutes?

vinay_ys3• 3 years ago

My one year old AirPods Pro has a problem charging the left ear pod. And, this is my 3rd AirPods in as many years. I have promised myself that I won't buy another one once its battery dies like the previous two AirPods.

KennyBlanken4• 3 years ago

It's well known that the contacts occasionally need cleaning, and there are all sorts of tools to do so that cost barely a few dollars.

ksec• 3 years ago

I worked at Apple years ago in Apple Retail.

I assume that was before 2016 or possibly before 2014 ?

Apple retail has changed, a lot over the years. But people still don't believe it.

skummetmaelk• 3 years ago

When you have near complete vertical integration there is no reason to handle edge cases. Everything plays well together because you made it all. Until it doesn't, and then it just doesn't work at all.

speedbird• 3 years ago

Similar - 2021 MBP 16". splash of red wine on the keyboard and despite all the usual solutions a few keys don't work. Works fine with external keyboard. Apple Store: we can send it away to be fixed but you must agree to a charge of up to $1600 because we don't know how far the damage has gone. Me: It all works except a few keys. Apple: That's the deal, and actually we'd recommend its not worth repairing and you should buy a new one.

troupe• 3 years ago

You might try a third party repair place.

FireBeyond7• 3 years ago

Sounds similar. Charging circuit on an MBA. Laptop worked perfectly on AC power. Battery health via various tests and Apple diagnostics, healthy, just 0% charge.

"That will be $890 to repair. Maybe you should wander around and have a look at the new MBAs."

londons_explore• 3 years ago

Ya know, for $5 from AliExpress you can get a pair of airpod clones and a charger case. They are remarkably good considering their price is just 2% of the money apple wants!

And they won't mess you about with any 30-minute-till-they-work behaviour.

layer8• 3 years ago

Their audio quality is distinctly worse, I tried a couple.

techdragon• 3 years ago

I had this “should be 30 minutes” but is really “never”… after getting an AirPod replacement in August this year.

In my case it was actually a pretty easy to fix once I knew what it was. You have to do a little fiddling to check this since it involves a couple reset/pairing cycles with just a single AirPod in the case … but if you check I bet the replacement has an older firmware since it’s been sitting in the stores spare parts room.

So you trigger the firmware update with just one AirPod in the case (which was pretty easy and I could just follow the Apple information) and then once the firmware is the same then yeah they will both do the automatic pairing like the Genius Bar tech expected them to… the issue might be related to a recent firmware changing something and the stores not having updated process to ensure the firmware is correct because apple are probably going to prefer this having a software fix not a fix that takes up more human store employees time.

zitterbewegung• 3 years ago

My anecdotal evidence is below .

I went to the Apple Store to get replacement AirPod Pros and while I had to do it a few times it was still under warranty and they gave me a set of replacement Airpors pro.

I received a broken Pro Display XDR (red line on it) and they gave me a replacement but I had to pick it up and also give them the old one.

I was having screen problems with my first MacBook Pro I bought with my Pell grant (zebra pattern with the backlight) they gave me the newer model of my MacBook Pro. This is where they earned my loyalty.

The worst experience I had with Apple is that they lost my Touchpad Macbook but they eventually returned it.

FireBeyond7• 3 years ago

I was having screen problems with my first MacBook Pro I bought with my Pell grant (zebra pattern with the backlight) they gave me the newer model of my MacBook Pro. This is where they earned my loyalty.

I had a MacBook with screen and display issues. Multiple times they denied any issue. Even when I showed them that if we did a fresh install of macOS I could reliably and repeatedly cause a kernel panic in (IIRC) Safari, when doing something with the GPU.

While there was an active recall for the same issue.

Similarly, they insisted nothing was wrong with the logic board on another Mac. There was.

And then when the charging circuit died on my step-daughter's MBA (healthy battery, laptop worked fine on AC, just couldn't charge), I thought $2-300. Nope "The repair estimate is $890. Maybe you should look at a new Mac instead?"

Ensorceled• 3 years ago

Anecdotally, I've had several good experiences with Apple support and no bad ones. The one bad experience I had wasn't supports fault (there was a bug where if you tried to use a Time Machine backup on a Airport to restore onto a new machine it would sometimes backup the new machine instead and wipe out your backup) and even then they admitted it was a bug and not user error immediately.

davidf18• 3 years ago

I yearly upgrade on the iPhone for the better modem support. I always buy Apple leather case, also a yearly upgrade, to protect the phone. A number of years ago I had a screen break and I mentioned at the Genius Bar how I did the best I could using the Apple Cases, and they ended up replacing the screen, a $150 charge, for free. This is Apple.

You may have had a firmware incompatibility problem. That is what had happened to me when a few month-old AirPod Pro v2 earbud battery lost charge. I have AppleCare+ (I recommend that for all AirPod purchasers because the batteries wear out after 2 years of use). I used the Apple Support app, selecting my device, and selected for Apple to call, which they immediately did. Apple did the CC hold sending out a replacement. When I received it, it did not work, and the reason was that the firmware on the case and airpod earbuds was recently updated and the earpiece sent to me was not. It is a kind of race condition that occurs whenever Apple updates firmware.

In the process of trying to get things to work initially with the replacement earbud, I disconnected my AirPods from the phone, following instructions. When I could not get it to reconnect, I tried to contact AppleCare+ for the AirPod Pro with the Apple support app as I had done 2 days earlier, and this time my device was not showing up in the device list, even though I still owned the device. This is an Apple bug.

So, I called 800-APL-CARE, but had to wait on hold to talk with someone a couple of minutes. Then I asked to be escalated to 2nd tier tech support. I explained the firmware incompatibility problem to the advisor. I expressed my annoyance since Apple has known about this problem since shipping Airpods, yet never fixed it. The tech rep had me go through a couple of more steps, including the 30 minute charge of the case with the earbuds (they called me back after 30 minutes). Then they resolved the issue for me.

So, Apple had 2 repeatable bugs. 1. Firmware incompatibility with parts replacements. 2. Even though I still owned the AirPods Pro with AppleCare+ support associated with my AppleID, when disconnected the phone, it no longer showed up on my device list.

But overall, Apple has been great at support.

With AppleCare+, you don't have to go to the store for replacements. They send it to you with a CC hold and then have a prepaid label for Fedex Pickup returns. Call Fedex for the pickup, and that is that.

giardini• 3 years ago

Return the newly-purchased airpods, wait 4 days and buy some new airpods.

mickelsen2• 3 years ago

To think that I've been able to mix and match left and right earbuds from the same manufacturer+model, and they pair up as the same, and be able to order replacements only from one side from Aliexpress, directly from the manufacturer after explaining myself, for very little, really tells me a lot about this unnecessary convenience baked in, where the lesser option is much cheaper and less hassle when it doesn't work, for very little sacrifice.

Also, just a heads up on Apple ID's 2FA: it's different from the trusted number used in recovery, which can be repeated across many IDs. I had my parents set my number for their Apple IDs, as they seem to constantly forget their passwords and don't really understand much of the app downloading process, so I end up getting the SMS but it doesn't interfere with my own accounts.

tjpnz• 3 years ago

Did the switch occur when op somehow put his laptop in somebody else's bin or was this the work of airport security?

palijer• 3 years ago

I only used a macbook personally around 2009, but I imagine these days you can't just buy a new drive and install MacOS on it...

I don't understand why we accept a product there the above isn't possible. If security is the argument, those claims need to have some proof of a widespread problem actually existing that was solved by removing the ability to swap your drive in your own computer.

Gigachad4• 3 years ago

The point of the feature is to stop theft. Surely we don't need to prove theft is a problem that exists.

worik7• 3 years ago

The point of the feature is to stop theft

A failure then

renewiltord• 3 years ago

Apple is a very happy path company. I set up everything and all my shit is on their stuff. Thank you for sharing your experience. Good to know where the hard edges are.

menshiki3• 3 years ago

The stranger wiped my MacBook, set it up for themselves, and turned on Find My

How would the stranger know your MacBook's password. Unless it was a very simple password, I don't think this option is very likely.

jameshart6• 3 years ago

How did the stranger figure out their email address?

menshiki3• 3 years ago

If OP used their real name as the account name then I guess it wouldn't be that difficult. Otherwise no idea.

LeoPanthera• 3 years ago

You can factory reset a MacBook without the login password - if activation lock has not been enabled.

lights0123• 3 years ago

You can always boot to recovery partition and clean install the OS without Find My lock

ddingus9• 3 years ago

All they need do is go into recovery, wipe the machine and setup fresh.

I have done exactly that on an M1 Air I purchased, and that the person who sold it to me bought it new.

menshiki3• 3 years ago

Damn... I feel stupid for not knowing that. I've never used a Mac that was not tied to my Apple ID so I guess that's why.

zshrc• 3 years ago

Forgot this was Hacker News for a second.

Hardwares doing its job; locking unauthenticated users out of it. Unfortunately, this is a consequence of not understanding how to use it and you not using it.

I wish Apple was more informative about the risk of not using Find My, but this is software doing a good thing. The reason why Macs become bricks is because 9/10 of the times they’re stolen. And guess what? You’re not getting past Activation Lock. Really good deterrent.

Sorry this happened to you, but this is Apple doing a good thing and something I wish more manufacturers did.

mrzool• 3 years ago

It’s not a good thing to lock out users who are clearly and demonstrably the owners of a device. Automated protections are good, but there should be procedures in place to handle cases like these.

AgentK20• 3 years ago

That's great in a world where people are unable to resell devices, but the concept of "ownership" is fluid in a world where users can sell their devices. I can think of many scams that could abuse a system where anyone who presents an ID associated with a receipt can claim "ownership" of a device and bypass various security measures. Keep in mind, Apple's threat vectors range from "random phone thief" to "state level actors", with equally as varied clientele.

croes2• 3 years ago

You forgot the part where Apple could unbrick it for the legitimate owner.

The software does its job, Apple does not.

threeseed4• 3 years ago

Apple is doing its job.

There is no way for it to accurately determine the legitimate owner.

So better to err on the side of caution and assume that if you're coming to Apple with an unlock request that it's not legitimate.

pjerem2• 3 years ago

Activation Lock is in fact not a good software because Apple have the keys.

If they refuse to accept the responsibility that comes with owning the keys, which, basically comes down to helping the customer when they can authenticate him, they should not own the key at all. At least they could be honest when they say they can’t do anything.

Because, reading this post, my question is not "why Apple don’t help?" but rather "why did we give them our keys if they are not willing to use them to help us ?"

What is a more legitimate use case than OP simple case that justify Apple’s decision power over Activation Lock.

ValentineC2• 3 years ago

If they refuse to accept the responsibility that comes with owning the keys, which, basically comes down to helping the customer when they can authenticate him, they should not own the key at all.

Apple has a process to remove Activation Lock with proof of purchase documentation:

https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT201441

I don't know why the process failed for the OP.

quitit• 3 years ago

This sounds terrible, but there are some lingering issues which don't sit right:

If this person has their original invoice/receipt. Then it's trivial to show that this is not an item which requires that duties be paid. He's clearly not buying it twice. Agreeing to pay duties for something that was bought inside of the country, or already delivered to the country at the time of sale raises a red flag on this story. (Like why aren't they claiming the duties back now?)

The second issue is that Apple are pretty good about unlocking devices when the owner has their purchase paperwork (invoice/receipt) because this contains the serial number and the owners name. If that doesn't work for some reason (e.g. Apple have information that the device was sold or legitimately owned by someone else), then the owner can turn to further resources to prove ownership, including the documentation that shows that it was a missing item, a police report, an insurance claim, a notarised witness statement and so on. It's not as simple as "computer says no".

Altogether there seems to be more to this story. Has the other person meddled with the laptop? The author seems to have some suspicions that the other user attempted to make good with it - that seems like the source of his woes.

Aeolun3• 3 years ago

The author seems to have some suspicions that the other user attempted to make good with it

This seems like something that should be extremely easy for Apple to see. If the data aligns completely with thr story OP tells, why won’t they help him?

faeriechangling3• 3 years ago

Nobody is saying it’s bad for Apple to lock unauthenticated users out of a device.

The problem is Apple equating the completion of not just an on-boarding process, but an optional on-boarding process, with ownership. It’s that they have a feature to lock users out of their Mac but no procedure to actually bypass this lock for the legitimate owner of the device. Without such procedures, they should not have implemented such a lock.

I’m not even against Apple applying locks that they cannot break, such as with their enhanced security for iCloud, but the difference there is that Apple legitimately doesn’t control the keys, and that can only result in mere data loss rather than resulting in devices being totally bricked.

throwaway290• 3 years ago

The title is clickbait.

TL;DR author did not lock MBP to themselves, lost it, someone else wiped it, locked it to themselves and used for a bit before returning without unlocking. That's the point of locking, it's not yours now.

Sure the problem is Apple's GUI around how to lock it to yourself. I personally always have Find My on so it never occurred to me that's how it locked.

But it's very far from "not setting find my bricked the device". I feel cheated.

rado• 3 years ago

Thanks, it makes sense now.

andrewstuart2• 3 years ago

It's a disgusting waste of resources and extremely anti environmental that Apple bricks its devices.

Loads of old second hands Apple devices can never be used again.

I suppose that's exactly what Tim Cook wants.

Shouldn't be legal.

fastball3• 3 years ago

Activation Lock can be removed by the person that put it there. No legitimate computer without a weird history is going to be impacted by this.

andrewstuart2• 3 years ago

I picked up an old Macbook from a rummage sale and the hard disk was locked.

I should be able to wipe it and use that machine.

throwaway67743• 3 years ago

Why would you give a third party control over your device? You're just renting overpriced devices from Apple at this point, one of the many reasons I stopped buying iPhones (that and they're just awful anyway, the UI/ux is offensive.)

By using this crap you're allowing Apple to brick your device on a whim etc if they feel like it.

sargun• 3 years ago

It sounds like the other person tampered with the computer. Either by swapping HW, or adding their own iCloud info.

I believe at least with older MacBooks, if you swapped the logic board, it’d effectively remove any kind of association with the iCloud account / MDM. I wonder if OP can do that.

vietvu• 3 years ago

There are an awful number of Macbook got bricked and there no no other way to destroyed it as scrap. Yes, it is quite intended, but irony for the company claimed that they protect the environment.

An old article, not sure the same one I read, but same problem: https://www.vice.com/en/article/akw558/apples-t2-security-ch...

threeseed4• 3 years ago

Not sure why it would need to go to scrap when much of the device is recyclable.

dagmx3• 3 years ago

That article was pretty widely derided because it’s only applicable to third party companies trying to resell the entire Mac.

They don’t have a way to prove ownership but could still salvage the parts, but don’t. They’re the ones who are choosing to accept these devices and then scrapping them.

It’s a grey market issue

crote3• 3 years ago

No, Apple has also been locking down part salvaging for years now. Many parts are now cryptographically linked to a specific device, and swapping them out between devices simply will not work. They are scrapped because for all intents and purposes they are scrap.

mckn1ght8• 3 years ago

It’s not Apple’s fault that people don’t RTFM and disable the locks before getting rid of their old devices. It’s absurd to claim this is Apple’s MO or that it would make a dent in their numbers. If you have proof, show us the receipts. That whole article is mostly hand waving trying to hide the few words that admit that, yes, it was the previous owner that left it locked.

If it were that easy to break into a $3000 product, and the stolen goods market intensified, then that’s more laptops Apple has to make because more victims must replace their equipment. So your environmental argument breaks even at best. Which scenario would expend more natural resources?

bigstrat20033• 3 years ago

It’s not Apple’s fault that people don’t RTFM and disable the locks before getting rid of their old devices.

No, but it is their fault for making the devices with this horrible feature to begin with.

fastball3• 3 years ago

Did the author try asking the UAE person to de-register the computer from their account?

Not seeing any mention of that but that seems like it would be my first step before trying to get Apple to do anything. They were willing to send it back to you, so if they really did just wipe it so that they could use it, seems like they'd probably be willing to remove the lock.

matteoraso• 3 years ago

The macbook should still be usable if you wipe the OS and replace it with Linux. Still, that shouldn't be necessary, considering this is a problem that Apple created.

worik7• 3 years ago

if you wipe the OS and replace it with Linux.

Can you do that on modern Macs?

filchermcurr• 3 years ago

Isn't activation lock part of the firmware, not macOS? It might work on an older Intel Mac with a T2 chip (you can jailbreak those, entertainingly enough), but probably not on the ARM ones.

edandersen• 3 years ago

If Find My was not activated, therefore there was no Activation Lock, the most likely scenario is that the other person just reset and activated it themselves with this "mysterious" new iCloud account and is lying about it. The device can still be attached to Paul's original Apple account if its not removed from the list of devices by Paul, new activation lock or not.

photonbeam2• 3 years ago

Seems like a warranty claim if your device is broken

laurent123456• 3 years ago

I'm surprised he didn't even try that. That's a brand new laptop - go to a store and have it replaced. Or if they won't do it because of this activation lock, then purposely break it and say it stopped working.

worik7• 3 years ago

Why are people still buying Apple products?

For another two weeks I am making my living as an Apple developer.

Then I'm gone.

I started programming in the late eighties on Mac Plus

In the intervening years, they have gotten awful

Everything looks good, but it all mostly works

Mostly works is not good enough

Just walk away

bdlowery• 3 years ago

Because Apple makes the best laptops for “programming”, their battery lasts for over 16 hours of straight use, and they’re extremely fast.

The days of Apple having bad laptops ended with the M1 chip

adrianmsmith• 3 years ago

Walk away to what?

I am currently using Linux on the desktop on my work laptop. It's fine, but lots of things don't work (e.g. camera doesn't work at all).

Last time I used Windows about 5 years ago it updated itself and it took most of a morning to sort out and get four programs which it had broken to work again. I had a deadline that day so that wasn't extremely convenient.

worik7• 3 years ago

Walk away to what?

A reasonable question

I am currently using Linux on the desktop on my work laptop. It's fine, but lots of things don't work...

I have been regularly developing on and for 3 OSs, Linux (Mint and Raspberry Pi), MacOS (including iOS), and Windows.

My verdict is:

* as far as user interface goes it is taste whether Linux or MacOS.

* The Linux machines are more reliable than the Macs, just. It is close run and other people probably have different experiences. But they are on a par

* Tools. Linux wins by a big margin. The MacOS command line is a Unix (BSD I think) command line ten years out of date. The package management is either the official App Store (is it called that on MacOS?) that is full of utter rubbish or homebrew, which I really appreciate, is a good effort, but a long way behind Debian. The compilers on MacOS are unreliable, the default IDE (Xcode) has a lot of nice features out of the box, and in the three years I have been using it some are starting to work better, but it has a long way to go. Swift would look good, if Rust did not exist. The ergonomics committee from Rust - if any body listening - I love you people. Swift has nothing like that. Swift's concurrence model is really bad. Really bad. Embarrassingly bad. ARC was a good idea in the nineties for simple languages but there is no excuse for using it as the main memory management in the twenty first century.

I will stop ranting now, but you get the picture. I could have a rant three times as long

For the tools on Linux, less promises are made, quality varies, but it is all fundamentally honest. The underlying Unixisms are up to date, the compilers are top notch, all the languages I could ever want are first class citizens (I have no interest in .Net - it might not be) etcetera.

So, from my perspective - perhaps not others, it is Linux that I have walked away to

No need to even talk about windows. Makes me weep

sschueller• 3 years ago

He has a purchase receipt and his name is connected to this specific device in apple's systems!

What else would apple want to unlock it? The only scenario where they should not do this if he sold this laptop and then stole it back but that is so unlikely they should just unlock it.

PeterStuer2• 3 years ago

Ah yes, Apple support. It's been decades, sure things must have changed now, but as an anecdote. Back then my wife and me both used computers for work at home. I had a Dell, she had an Apple. When my Dell needed repair, a technician would come to the house next business day (it was a standard support option you clould choose back then even for their 'consumer' line) and perform the task. When her Mac needed repair, the only option was to deliver it by hand to the Apple store in town, and then you could pick it up again in 2 weeks. There was no other option. That was the last time she used an Apple product for work.

syndicatedjelly3• 3 years ago

I had to get a Dell XPS 13 laptop repaired in 2009. The hinge had broken (probably my fault for tossing my backpack around). I contacted support, and a day later the bell rang. A young tech jockie with slicked back hair politely appeared, a silver BMW M3 in the background. He quietly ignored the errant super glue residue around the hinge, my bodged attempt at a self repair.

He sat at our dining table for about 45 minutes and expertly conducted the repair. I remember the quiet rumble of that M3 V6 as it left the neighborhood.

That computer served it's duty faithfully for another 2 years, before I upgraded to a new computer (another Dell XPS).

I have no idea how that could be a profitable business model, but Dell's support really impressed me that day.

harry8• 3 years ago

Dell pushed out a bios update, relayed on by ubuntu, that bricked mine because after the update I closed the lid and put it in my bag because I bought a laptop. Situation: I was beside a child's ICU bed.

The bios update made using the device advertised and bought as a laptop as a laptop become fatal behaviour. Can anyone talk to Dell about it because any reputable company would apologise and fix? No. Cannot contact them because they bricked it for me just out of warranty.

So no, I do NOT recommend Dell. Ever. Their support blows goats. I hate them. I'm far from alone in that.

movpasd• 3 years ago

While I appreciate the security implications for Apple of reversing Activation Lock when they can't verify that you are the current, legitimate owner of the hardware (given Find My hasn't been set up), there is something intensely frustrating about the idea of a perfectly functional piece of hardware becoming unusable because of a software lock.

Perhaps Apple should consider making Find My mandatory? I can't imagine this is the only case where this has happened.

justin_2• 3 years ago

Activation Lock is a weird feature. Users love it when it helps prevent device theft. But really, at the end of the day, you're giving up control of the device to Apple.

Apple has already stopped supporting activation of certain versions of iOS[0]. Also, just as a user can request locking down a phone at any time, Apple could technically lock down your device when they see fit. They're not going to do that, but the fact that it's possible is a bit freaky.

Someday, far in the future, their activation servers will go down, and no unactivated Apple device will be usable. Already, it is not possible to set up a new device without an Internet connection. Hopefully the jailbreak community figures something out by then, or maybe Apple would release a tool...

[0] https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/apple-no-longer-activat...

philistine• 3 years ago

Apple has stopped signing older version of iOS for devices that could upgrade to later versions. The case you linked to is an iPhone running iOS 9 when Apple will happily sign iOS 11 for that device. iOS 11 is that latest version of the software that will run on that device.

Do we blame Google for not allowing Chromebooks to stick to an older version of their OS?

justin_2• 3 years ago

This isn’t about signing the OS updates. This is about the device contacting Apple’s activation servers during initial setup.

In the linked thread, the users have a “working” device with software already installed, but the activation fails with a cryptic “Activation Error” without any reference to the fact that they must update.

Typically, Apple continues to allow activation on older OSes, as long as they were installed previously. I’ve intentionally kept some devices on older versions, and personally have never had a problem activating after a reset. But I suppose that’s only possible because Apple allowed it.

EDIT: I was wrong about the "Activation Error" not mentioning a software upgrade. It does mention it. But my point about Apple controlling access to the software still stands. It's something weird that Apple did specifically for iOS 9 and the iPhone 6s. Naturally, who really cares about one random version combination? I don't in this particular case, but the fact that Apple can control it is weird to me.

Even more concerning is that some users report that the device locked them out _even during normal use of the phone_: https://www.reddit.com/r/iphone/comments/acmytg/iphone_6s_pl...

rubatuga• 3 years ago

It was stolen and a security feature was turned on. I think the fact that you lost physical control of your own hardware is why your MacBook is bricked.

mullingitover• 3 years ago

But when I opened it up, a stranger’s profile greeted me. Evidently we had swapped laptops going through security. So I raced back, and returned the stranger’s laptop, and explained the situation.

A friend had this exact problem going through airport security. It ended up being a huge ordeal getting things settled.

Before hearing his story I was against putting stickers on my laptops, I felt it ruined the clean aesthetic. However, after hearing that story I always add a sticker to my laptops just to be damn sure there are no mixups like this.

koromak3• 3 years ago

So far, security has always let me leave my laptop inside a thin sleeve, I just put a sticker on the sleeve and send it through.

planb• 3 years ago

Look, Apple haters: there’s much to criticize about this company, and I understand everyone who wants to be in full control of their devices (and all related encryption keys), but this story is just documenting the feature working as expected. If Apple would unlock the devices after validating a proof of purchase, the next HN headline would be about some unlock scam for used devices on eBay. And if you cannot foresee what would happen if people would have to manage the unlock keys themselves, then you probably should get out of your bubble.

So maybe you can argue that this feature should not exist at all. Or be able to be deactivated permanently by burning a fuse in the device. But in that world there would be more people without their devices than in our current one.

perryizgr82• 3 years ago

Don't be surprised to find out who owns the hardware when the time comes. All these "security" features are IMO excuses to remove more and more control from the user and bring it to Apple. If you fall for it, you have only yourself to blame. Next time, buy a machine that you truly own. This is the number one reason I will never buy anything from Apple, not even a simple air pod.

reactordev• 3 years ago

I read as far as “Or so I thought. About 30 minutes before my flight was boarding, I pulled out my laptop to do some last minute work. But when I opened it up, a stranger’s profile greeted me.”

At this point, everything below that line is working as intended. Be glad you still have your identity and bank accounts whole.

I know this sounds harsh but, your laptop and your data is just as personal and vital to you as your phone. When going through airport security, throw your ID and phone in the same basket as your laptop. If they make you separate them, throw your ID in the laptop basket. Better, put a sticker on your laptop. Stop keeping it pristine and uniform like everyone else’s macbook. Then you would easily know you picked up the wrong laptop. Next time buy a Lenovo.

fomine3• 3 years ago

I understand that it should be an option: don't track me by Find My network but also there should be an option to register as my device to guarantee that others can't register.

steveharman• 3 years ago

"Apple ID requires you to have a phone number associated with the account, and only allows one phone number per account."

That's not right.

angulardragon03• 3 years ago

Correct. You can even add the same phone number to multiple iCloud accounts.

bella_sm• 3 years ago

Sue them?

supermatt• 3 years ago

Less than a year old device and it is no longing functional. That would be covered by consumer rights in Europe. I would start a small claim against the apple store if i was in that position.

wrboyce• 3 years ago

You expect theft to be covered by warranty? How about if I get Ransomware, can I sue my laptop manufacturer?

crote3• 3 years ago

This isn't theft.

The legitimate owner possesses the device, but it just doesn't work anymore. That's pretty much textbook definition of "broken", and considering it is happening solely because of misbehavior of Apple's software it should be covered under warranty. If you try to report it as "theft" to the police or your insurance, they are rightfully going to laugh at you.

Compare it to a friend borrowing your car. Turns out there is a bug where if you change radio stations 30 times before turning on the ignition, the car permanently destroys its ability to turn on. Your friend accidentally triggers this. Would you consider that "theft" too, or should the manufacturer fix it under warranty?

5pales• 3 years ago

Or, you know, stop buying apple products.

WesolyKubeczek• 3 years ago

If I have to go somewhere via an international airport, and that somewhere is outside Schengen zone, I’m not taking any laptop with me that I would mind parting with.

Which is why I have a small stack of old thinkpads and whatnot.

The risks range from misplacement to customs officers being corrupt and petty, or airport security being draconian and wanting to poke around.

Thankfully, VPNs like Tailscale or Zerotier exist, and I can leave the dearer pieces of tech at home and get into them when I need them.

letier• 3 years ago

I managed to remove activation lock by proving that I was the original owner (invoice) of the MacBook.

Was that no option?

trumbitta2• 3 years ago

I just take it for granted that using any Apple device means activating Find My for it and with the same iCloud account.

And my iCloud account is sacred just like my password manager's master password.

Or the keys to my house, or car.

jbm• 3 years ago

A side note, the author (Paul) is one of the nicest people I knew in Tokyo. Sorry about your laptop buddy.

Gabrys1• 3 years ago

Hmmm, can you return this product as faulty using your warranty?

bakugo• 3 years ago

The best part about stories like this is that I just know the person is going to go out and buy another one, even though they are now fully aware that they don't own any Apple device they "buy" and are actually just renting it from Apple until they decide not to allow you to use it anymore, instead of just buying a real personal computer.

tobiasbischoff• 3 years ago

With all the locks, DRM and hostile Software in place - an Apple device is never yours really. You are always on the mercy of corporate apple.

kkapelon• 3 years ago

Pro tip: when you put your laptop on the tray also put some other personal belongings in the same tray (but not ON the laptop) such as shoes, belt, watch etc. This way it would be more difficult for other people to get confused when they pick their own stuff

Second tip: Add some stickers to personalize your laptop

traceroute66• 3 years ago

I dunno, something just doesn't smell right about this guy's story.

For example a search of his blog post for the words "recovery key" yields zero results.

You don't need to setup Find My. But you must use at least one of the many options that Apple provides you to regain access.

vinay_ys3• 3 years ago

This is indeed a cautionary tale. But soon enough, this taking out electronics at airports will be a thing of the past as more and more airports deploy luggage scanners like the ones at Dubai airport where you don't have to take anything out of the bag.

In general, here's my operational security to prevent scenarios like this:

1. All my luggage has uniquely identifiable tags and stickers on them. This includes my laptop, mobile phone, chargers and cables. This largely avoids myself or someone else mistakenly picking up wrong things. When I'm asked to take out electronics at airport security, I use 4 trays in sequence – carry-on luggage, all my electronics in the tray, and my backpack, my shoes. This way, my electronics tray is sandwiched between my luggages. I also put my laptop in a thin cushion sleeve and I have not been asked to remove the sleeve. I also put all my smaller electronics and cables in a clear plastic zip bag and put it in the tray. Then, I try to cross the human x-ray at the same time as my luggage (most airports do a good job of ensuring this if you stay in the lane next to the luggage line). When I pickup my luggage I'm super focused to make sure I verify I got back my stuff correctly.

2. My corporate MacBook and iPhone does not allow iCloud account on it. Hence, there is no Find My. But it is tied to corp MDM. If anyone were to find it and try to wipe and install, the MDM will force a profile on it. When I report my laptop is lost, they will put it in lost mode (via MDM) and also remote wipe it. Also, they have loss/theft insurance to cover the cost of the laptop.

3. On my personal MacBook and iPhone, I have had firmware lock (on Intel ones), and always had FileVault (for M1/M2 silicon, this is same as firmware lock) on with recovery key (not iCloud recovery). Recently I have turned on lockdown mode as well. I do have an apple account for Activation Lock, App Store and TV. And I have advanced data protection mode on for this iCloud account and I have disabled iCloud Web. I have recovery key and recovery contact for this iCloud account. I don't want my data on iCloud servers without end to end encryption nor do I want Apple to be able to unlock/wipe my devices without a cryptographic consent from another iDevice I possess. With File Vault on, nobody else who gets my laptop can unlock it or wipe it or reinstall it. On some of my devices, location service is off, so Find My can't show the location but it can still activate lost mode or remote wipe the device.

4. I have both physical sim which is locked and eSIM on my iPhone. And my iPhone is locked with a password. I disable Face ID while traveling.

5. Similarly, I have advanced data protection on my Google accounts.

6. I use physical Yubikeys with pin locks for 2FA.

anArbitraryOne• 3 years ago

I think the fundamental problem here was choosing to use an apple product. I loathe the software on my M1, and there is nothing I can do about it besides hope that Asahi adds support for everything

ploum• 3 years ago

Those problems are unavoidable in a monoculture. Worst, we are trying to adress them by putting more power on the monopoly in charge.

voidee• 3 years ago

This story will certainly start a trend of people covering MacBook lids with the most unique sticker combination possible.

koromak3• 3 years ago

Like its 2015

drodgers• 3 years ago

If you bought the laptop with a credit card, you should try doing a charge-back. Airport story aside, the laptop is now bricked at Apple's discretion, so you should just get your money back from them to cover a new one.

CC companies are usually pretty sympathetic in cases like these.

talkingtab3• 3 years ago

Just take Apple to small claims court. Every single person who runs into a Stupid Apple Problem like this should immediately file in small claims court. Apple can continue this kind of policy because they have no incentive to fix it. Sometimes if someone makes a stink (on HN or other) in an act of Deus Ex Apple, they will descend from the cloud and fix it. Maybe.

But if 20 or 200 people go to small claims court they will have to pay legal fees to represent themself. They may decide fixing the problem is cheaper that lawyers fees

It is relatively easy to go so small claims court.

1. SearchEngine your state and small claims. - for example "New Hampshire Small Claims" => https://www.courts.nh.gov/our-courts/circuit-court/district-...

2. Follow the directions.

3. Get your ducks/facts in a row. Collect receipts, emails, phone notes. Get the names of people you talk to.

4. Get the procedure in a row. Much of court is about procedure. Forget to notify the other party? You are dead in the water. Miss a deadline, don't follow rule 33.b.7A? you lose. But you just have to be diligent. And if you make a mistake ask the judge if you can fix it.

4. Serve Apple.

5. Show up at Court, bring your documentation, find out what else you need to bring.

6. Be a fair and reasonable person.

Some states like New Hampshire allow you to appeal small claims decisions to the state Supreme Court. Do not accept easy failure. Many judges and lawyers look down on commoners and find them annoying. Don't be annoying and don't accept arbitrary rulings by a judge.

In New Hampshire a coffee shop owner took Instagram to court, lost the case and appealed to the NH Supreme Court who reversed the decision.

Do not be a victim, but do not expect to win. Do expect to make it clear to Apple that you will contest the "oh this is policy" or "oh we can't do this" kind of nonsense.

And do submit your experience to HN.

FireBeyond7• 3 years ago

6. Be a fair and reasonable person.

Oof. Step-daughter was involved in a car accident. Our insurance denied liability, his insurance said to involve small claims.

(This is in Washington state.)

What was described in the Small Claims paperwork as "optional arbitration available" was actually mandated by the court, as in "We won't hear you unless you go through this".

I ended up filing a complaint about the arbitrator.

Was a citation issued? "Yes, to my step-daughter, that we are contesting, because it says she ran a red light, based on the evidence of the other person in the collision alone, who is not exactly an unbiased witness". "That's irrelevant to this proceeding. I just asked if a citation was issued."

This guy had his car towed to a shop who charged him storage fees. When my insurance informed him, whether he agreed or not, that they were not paying the bill, he kept the car in the shop for another six weeks accruing a $200/day bill because the shop said "Oh, it'll all be fine, they'll pay eventually". Couldn't understand why I was not going to accept any responsibility for that decision, apropos of anything else. Neither could the arbitrator.

Arbitrator: "Well, you're going to have to pay for it somehow - your rates will go up because it's an at-fault collision". "No, my insurer is happy with considering this not at-fault based on everything." "Well, you were at fault, a citation was issued!" "I thought the details of the citation were irrelevant to this?" "..."

And then a slight tactical error on my part, "What if the court awards against you?" "Then our insurance will pay, based on a court judgment being entered."

Arbitrator (being absolutely neutral and impartial /s) "Well, in that case, I simply cannot understand why you would not - as a human being (her emphasis) - agree to give him everything he is asking for in this claim. I don't understand that."

Really, you don't understand why I might have an objection to paying $10,000 (his claim) for damage to a $1,400 car that may have been his fault, that he then incurred a nearly $7,000 storage bill for due to him just assuming "it'll all be figured out, don't worry".

Yeah, I had a big problem with that.

Oh, and when we did finally figure something out, the arbitrator, who had mentioned she was a lawyer in family practice, wrote out an agreement that said that "FireBeyond and [insurer] agree to do this", and "if FireBeyond or [insurer] do not, it is agreed that they will be in default"...

"I'm not an attorney, but pretty certain I don't have authority to enter into an agreement binding my insurer to anything at all..."

"Sigh. Fine, I suppose not", and makes a big dramatic deal about rewriting it to remove that.

talkingtab3• 3 years ago

Sorry to hear your experience. In my limited opinion this is the kind of thing that is fundamentally broken. It is designed to make life easy for insurance companies, not for people.

We as a nation, have decided to be governed by laws not by people. If we are truly to a people governed by laws, the common people (you and me) must have fair access to the courts to effect those laws. If we cannot afford an attorney, or if courts mandate arbitration - we cannot have equal access to the legal system.

In my opinion (again), the judge's requirement for mandatory arbitration denied you one of your fundamental rights as an American. Just saying.

commandersaki• 3 years ago

This is the correct response.

koromak3• 3 years ago

Had no idea Find My did this. I always leave it off for privacy reasons, but I'm realizing thats probably not worth it.

tech_ken• 3 years ago

The iCloud thing is weird, is it possible that the email was automatically created for you using your username? I believe that Apple used to do that or something similar, regardless of which email the AppleID actually used. Alternatively, it seems like whoever had your laptop had your full name, so maybe they factory reset your laptop and then created a new AppleID under that name. Unclear why they would go to all this trouble to then brick it and send it back to you, especially when they already owned a comparable one which you had returned to them. Do you recall enough to confirm whether the AppleID on the other laptop matched the name of the person who emailed you? Or does it match the one you're currently seeing?

Overall this truly sucks, sorry you had to go through it. However I'm not sure if "Not setting up Find My" is what bricked your laptop. Rather it sounds like you didn't utilize Find My, and then an adversary was able to use it to brick your laptop. It's frustrating that Apple isn't making an exception to help unblock you here, but I can also understand how they might have a pretty strict anti-theft policy that you're falling just outside of.

jiveturkey• 3 years ago

yeah, i would be more suspicious that he accepted a default setting provided at OOBE, and created a new icloud account, than some bug in the Activation Lock system. i haven't gone through the OOBE flow recently but it's super easy to overlook something like this.

he does question whether this might have happened:

That the iCloud address starts with a “p”, my first initial, is haunting me. Could it be that I somehow created an iCloud address when first setting up the MacBook? I certainly don’t remember doing this though.

Or another scenario:

If I hadn’t set up Find My for the MacBook, they should have been able to wipe it themselves. When they set it up for themselves, they could have set up Find My, and now the Activation Lock would be enabled.

Very, very plausible.

So in either of these cases, the system seems to be working as designed and they just got caught up in an edge case. The criticism of Find My seems appropriate ... the link to activation lock is definitely not well known. Just as macOS gives you an annoying notification about "take a tour" after a little while using it on a new install, it should give you an annoying notification that without Activation Lock someone with physical possession can make it theirs.

notnmeyer• 3 years ago

to avoid this scenario i write my name in sharpie on all of my macbooks

faeriechangling3• 3 years ago

Availability is a key part of security. When Apple can trivially authenticate that this man is the legitimate owner of the device, given he:

1: Bought it 2: Possesses it

I’m not sure how “But it’s not him linked with the Apple ID” is a legitimate reason not to assume him the owner pending any evidence to the contrary. If the man had his laptop stolen by somebody at the post office, who set it up with their own Apple ID, does Apple just shrug its shoulders and go “lol how is this our problem buy another Mac XD”.

Going through an onboarding process does not actually prove ownership, at all. I don’t believe what Apple is doing is actively illegal but it sure smacks of bureaucratic ineptitude.

someonehere• 3 years ago

Something doesn’t sound right.

I’ve had the same phone number of mine connected to different Apple IDs over the years. Based on different places that I’ve worked I’ve been able to tie my phone number to different Apple IDs with different email addresses.

The other thing that the author should’ve done is physically, walked into an Apple Store and asked them to remove the lock. I’ve had this removed a couple of times for clients of mine with no issue. You just have to show a receipt and someone at the store will go in the back and come out in 2030 minutes later at the machine unlocked.

This makes no sense this article

kkfx• 3 years ago

To my eyes: you send a formal letter to Apple, describing the issue, with proof of purchasing and advise them if they do not unlock your device, regularly purchase they have to respond to a formal aggravated theft complaint because not only the device it's yours but also you data (a copy of them, maybe) it's on it and their tool prevent you to access them.

I do not know the Japanese law but here in EU such complaint PLUS a copy with some chatty journals will make the deal VERY quickly.

Sometimes peoples tend to avoid biting when they should.

Not setting up Find My bricked my MacBook

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