OP-1 field

by bpierre • 4 years ago

289 220 4 years ago

0atman• 4 years ago

I clicked through to the store thinking "Come on TE, what pricepoint have you set this time", and it's $2,000. Two grand. I chuckled, and closed the tab.

motogpjimbo4• 4 years ago

For the same money it would be possible to buy the full version of a DAW of your choice, Kontakt, Arturia V-Collection and a PC to run them all on. I'm sure the OP-1 is fun, but I doubt it's £2,000 worth of fun.

capableweb14• 4 years ago

And the debate of hardware vs software continues!

It's true that if you just compare the costs, it might be cheaper to go the software route. But I mainly make music to go away from the computer, as I spend a lot of my days programming on one already. And the ability of pulling me away from the computer you can't put a price on :)

Plus, fiddling with real knobs that affect the sound in real-time, having a keyboard with a heavy feel, being able to turn on the hardware and instantly be able to use it (no fucking around with forced updates) and the ability to mod your own hardware with just a solder-iron is just like really really fun.

skinpop• 4 years ago

I hate working with DAWS and plugins. I went all in on modular a few years ago and wish I had done so a decade earlier.

monatron• 4 years ago

I remember buying the first OP-1 when it came out for something around $700 and even then thought "wow, this is a stretch". Since then they _raised_ the price of the original north of $1k. Don't get me wrong, TE makes incredible stuff and the OP-1 is no exception, but the price point just doesn't make sense unless you have serious money to burn. I had the same reaction to you after seeing the price for the mk2. At least, like a lot of synths, they hold their value?

capableweb14• 4 years ago

At least, like a lot of synths, they hold their value?

Like most synths, it seems so. Obviously not adjusted for the launch of the new "field" OP-1 yet, but locally (EU country) the OP-1 seems to go for about 700-1000 EUR second-hand. New one in stores here seems to still be 1100+ EUR (closest store to me lists it at ~1200 EUR new).

agloeregrets• 4 years ago

but the price point just doesn't make sense unless you have serious money to burn.

Meanwhile, the OP-1 was used on like 40% of all modern pop music production process.

I think the market is massively successful artists and they know they will pay.

xcambar• 4 years ago

TE does greatly, as a cult.

Also, good products.

bodge50003• 4 years ago

Also, good products

Kind of. In my experience, design gets priority over things like usability and durability. My OP-Z is barely usable after a few years of owning it due to the (admittedly nice) material the chasis is made of. The buttons frequently double trig, the dials have popped out, and it's got a bit of a bend in it.

I also get some mis-trig issues on the pocket operators, though for the price I don't mind them as much. The original OP-1 didnt seem to have these issues at least.

That being said, I've never been able to fully replace my OP-Z with anything else on offer so yeh, they're innovative if nothing else.

cushychicken• 4 years ago

If any business on this site has taken to heart the advice to charge more, it's Teenage Engineering.

Doesn't really seem to be hurting them, now, does it?

iamricks• 4 years ago

If you can't be the cheapest be the most expensive

capableweb14• 4 years ago

HN is usually fine when it comes to the technical details about music making and new instruments. But if you want to read opinions from people who make music but not all of them are technical, here are some other threads to follow:

- https://www.elektronauts.com/t/new-op1-field/172653

- https://op-forums.com/t/new-op-1-field/21969

- https://old.reddit.com/r/OP1users/comments/unwdo9/op1_just_g...

Surprisingly, no thread at gearspace yet

xdfgh1112• 4 years ago

I was just about to sell my OP-1 too, there goes the resale price.

bodge50003• 4 years ago

And here comes my chance at finally getting an OP-1 ;)

marban3• 4 years ago

I bought mine 3 months ago at sticker price. I hear you.

post_break• 4 years ago

Let me know what you're selling it for, I've always wanted one but never been able to afford it.

marban3• 4 years ago

Given that the feature list reads almost like new product and the OG is already pretty complex, I'm most definitely happier with mine now than before.

capableweb14• 4 years ago

Yeah, "new product" indeed, especially considering these "features" from that huge "feature" list:

- NEW COLOR SCHEME

- DUAL VELCRO® BACK FASTENERS

- ERGONOMIC POWER SWITCH

- ULTRA-FIDELITY HEADPHONE OUTPUT

- NEW CUSTOM USB CABLE

- NEW FONT

- NEW METRONOME SOUND

- NEW PACKAGING

- QR CODE GUIDE LINK

I'm not gonna lie, I'm generally a teenage engineering fan (besides the price that is), but some of those features sounds like part of a comedy/sarcastic copy of the actual launch website.

marban3• 4 years ago

Yeah, new packaging might pull me over

Spunkie• 4 years ago

They also relist the same feature multiple times in slightly different ways ...

- INTERNAL FM ANTENNA FOR BOTH RX AND TX

- BUILT-IN FM RADIO TRANSMISSION

- OB–4 COMPATIBLE USING FM TX OR WIRE

chaosprint7• 4 years ago

It looks nice and I may consider buying one for research purpose. But I know the price tag can be quite high for many. Maybe that's partially the reason that I believe free and open-source software is a form or music democratisation. I would like to invite those who are interested in this idea to try my live coding project in the browser:

https://glicol.org

I have been taking this project to different workshops and there will be more. The most unforgettable experience so far is that in one place the host can only provide old laptops that can hardly run Chrome smoothly. It really makes me think a lot afterwards. There are so many people excluded from music making due to the price tag.

On the one hand, it's exciting to see the exploration aestheticism, design and interaction. But on the other hand, we should really consider the democratisation of music tech.

capableweb14• 4 years ago

Talking about making it easier to write music and then linking to a programming language for making music feels a bit weird. Yes, hardware is a barrier for sure, but a even larger barrier would be to put it behind a complicated programming language.

If we really want to "democratize music tech" (whatever that means), then I think things like the Korg Volcas are much closer to achieving that. Cheaper than most computer hardware, very intuitive even for people who never touched a synth before, and hardware that is relatively easy to grok, even the insides of it. Easy to take apart as well.

The only thing missing from the Volcas would be a completely open source design both for the hardware and the firmware. That would get us much closer than a programming language for music could ever.

bambax5• 4 years ago

I disagree. I think there is room for both. I own two Volcas, and don't use them much unfortunately.

The problem with hardware is it's extremely difficult, or downright impossible, to save state.

On a physical modular synth, the only way to remember what you did is to write it down or (maybe) take pictures. On a virtual modular synth all you have to do is Save As.

I'm sure OP-1 can save its patches, but that doesn't address the problem of the whole chain, or backups.

chaosprint7• 4 years ago

Good point! Programming language can be harder to learn. I totally agree with it. With a hardware, you can easily make some sound. But on the other hand, languages are free and we can make the docs and videos so that the learning curve can be less steep. I would be amazed if one without any previous experience can master, say Mother-32, even with manuals and tutorials.

Also, the way I design Glicol (graph-oritend live coding language) is actually against normal programming paradigms such as FP or OOP. I always let my students to hear and see how an audio node works. I would call it as an instrument-design perspective. This may also lower the learning bar.

And to compare programming languages with hardware tools, I can also mention the logic loop. For example, you can easily duplicate 100 oscillators in live coding but generally impossible to achieve with hardware synth.

bambax5• 4 years ago

https://glicol.org

This looks absolutely fantastic! Thanks for sharing.

Live coding in a VST (like this project https://www.osar.fr/protoplug/) would be the next thing?

remember to play with line 14

On my screen, line numbers are almost invisible (.CodeMirror-linenumber #e0e2e5).

chaosprint7• 4 years ago

Live coding in VST is already possible: https://youtu.be/tmmBhBmIEW0

Glicol is also an audio library, so you can write VST plugin with Glicol: https://github.com/chaosprint/dattorro-vst-rs

tmountain4• 4 years ago

See also the 1010music BlackBox:

https://1010music.com/product/blackbox

Easily set up on an airplane seat-table for production.

JoeyJoJoJr2• 4 years ago

Yep, Deluge is the one and only desert island groovebox IMO.

agentultra• 4 years ago

The Deluge is huge (size-wise) compared to the OP-1 and doesn't run off batteries, have wifi/bluetooth connectivity, sample editing, etc, etc.

It's a nice groovebox but I don't think it really compares.

$2k is a steep price but there's a lot going on here that's not immediately obvious to a lot of folks.

luluganeta• 4 years ago

The Polyend tracker makes for a complete portable music-making tool as well.

https://polyend.com/tracker/

I'm sure there's others, but it's true that the OP-1 offers an impressive feature set for portable production.

bodge50003• 4 years ago

Depends on how you define "a whole song", but I'd say theres plenty of other options. In fact I'd go so far as to say the polyend tracker is even better than the op-1 for that purpose. Even better than that, a standard laptop with a standard DAW. Or even an ipad for that matter, which has a great selection of its own software.

There are many things the OP-1 does that nothing else can do quite the same, but I wouldnt say thats one of them.

dkdbejwi3833• 4 years ago

But the OP-1 is literally the only piece of music gear you can bring on an airplane and write a whole song

I could take a pen and some paper and write a whole song. Or take my laptop and write, record & mix a whole song. Or an iPad. Or the MPC as others have said, the Synthstrom Deluge... It's a fun toy, but not unique in that regard.

ds0• 4 years ago

What’s lovely about this post is that it follows the rule of bold claims producing interesting counters. Here’s my hat in the ring: I have had a really good time with the Elektron Model: Samples. It’s among the cheapest grooveboxes and comes with all the effects, parameter locks, and preloaded samples you need to do some great things.

enneff3• 4 years ago

But the OP-1 is literally the only piece of music gear you can bring on an airplane and write a whole song.

Apart from the several other great options mentioned in other replies, there’s also the Dirtywave M8. It, and the other tracker-style devices like the Polyend, actually make it much easier to write proper songs than the OP-1’s finnicky and unforgiving tape-based recording interface. (I own all these devices and have used them extensively.)

But if you are really serious about writing music on a plane just use a laptop and a modern DAW.

ben174• 4 years ago

Is the M8 obtainable? It seems like it's constantly backordered.

Tomte• 4 years ago

But the OP-1 is literally the only piece of music gear you can bring on an airplane and write a whole song.

I have zero music talent or experience, so let me ask: Would there be something missing with a quality soft synth on iPad with GarageBand?

The hardware buttons, sure, but is it possible to write a "serious" song with such a setup (iPad, paid synth app)?

comboy2• 4 years ago

Yes. There are channels recreating popular songs in garageband on iphone (with no additional paid plugins).

Physical knobs and buttons feel good, OP-1 also forces you to commit to specific audio and puts some limitations on yuu which may help with creativity.

You can create something amazing using just your phone. But to get skill to be able to do that, you likely need toys that keep you inspired and make you want to play all day.

tom-thistime• 4 years ago

The iPad will work alone, and if you're just starting out it's fine. But it's best to add a tiny MIDI keyboard to the iPad. For extreme compactness, the Korg Nanokey 2 works well for me. It has nontraditional "button" keys, but so does the OP-1.

The iPad's touch screen is usable, but its velocity sensitivity isn't nearly as good as a hardware keyboard.

motogpjimbo4• 4 years ago

There are many other options available - the groovebox market is booming right now. Even if you don't consider traditional grooveboxes like the Digitakt suitable for creating an actual "song", options like the Polyend Tracker are available and the modern MPC devices are basically a DAW-in-a-box now, complete with software synths.

The OP-1 is cool as hell, but realistically it's a £500 musical toy marked up to £2,000 simply because hipsters latched onto the design and marketing of it.

ugjka• 4 years ago

Nah, it is not hipsters, they are just doing what Apple is doing.

16• 4 years ago

https://dirtywave.com/

romwell• 4 years ago

But the OP-1 is literally the only piece of music gear you can bring on an airplane and write a whole song. Show me another way to write a song in an airplane, and you can have my money.

Assuming you mean without using a phone, computer, or a tablet:

Yamaha Reface DX ($400) + Korg SOS Recorder ($100) + TE PO-12 Rhythm ($60), and you not only have a portable studio, but a performer's rig.

I'm powering mine from a powerbank via a USB-to-12V adapter, it lasts forever on a charge.

I can busk with Reface DX alone (it's built-in speakers are loud enough for a quiet street). Throw in a mini-amp, and it's a band.

And it comes with an optional keytar strap too, so I cann sling it around my shoulder.

And it's the best FM synthesizer ever made. Worth it for the E-Piano patch and Final Countdown-like leads alone, but the real magic comes in realtime manipulation of sound (something you couldn't do with the clunky controls of DX-7).

Yeah, I don't know if it fits your "all-in-one" defitinion, but surely OP-1 doesn't fit mine: it's missing a proper keyboard (my main rig is Yamaha MX-88, and I still say that Reface DX's keyboard is great).

And with some creative application of electrical tape, the drum machine / field recorder just become upgrades for the Reface DX, giving yout the ultimate unit.

sneak3• 4 years ago

A $999 Macbook Air costs half as much and has all of the same production capabilities and then some.

blub2• 4 years ago

There are a ton of replies with counter-examples, but all of those are not exactly like the OP-1: a fun, easy to use, ultraportable, immediate music creation sketchpad.

Many other grooveboxes are quite painful to use. Here I’d include the Korg Electribe which is terrible at inputting musical notes. Or the several trackers which look more like scientific calculators than musical instruments. My MPC live can run circles around most grooveboxes, the OP-1 included, but that’s because it’s a computer: quite a bit heavier, takes time to boot, requires you to manage projects and adjust many parameters.

The Model Cycles doesn’t have a battery. Can be powered by a portable one, but that makes it just a little bit awkward. Elektron did launch a handle battery but it tended to catch fire in rare circumstances :-) Elektron boxes are in general considered difficult to use, even if the results can be impressive.

The Novation Circuit doesn’t allow full editing of the synth parameters. The synth parts are more like preset editors. Expect having to manage them from a computer.

The Deluge has a cumbersome buying process, where one has to basically buy from the manufacturer (NZ I think). I actually can’t but it from my/any local store. In reviews I’ve read that the interface is not that user-friendly/immediate.

Then there’a the multi-device set-ups consisting of Volcas, Rolands, etc. These can be nice, but it requires wiring them up every time! If I had to wire together 3 devices before I could make music, I’d rather do something else personally.

And so on and so forth. The new OP-1 is overpriced though. Maybe at 1500€ this would make some sense, but at this price point most people would rather deal with the disadvantages of other devices or device combos.

prmoustache• 4 years ago

Who cares how trackers look. That doesn't mean you can't have fun producing music with them.

I own a Model:Samples, the battery is just velcro attached to it. This is not awkward, it serves as a tilt stand which is actually nice.

The Deluge buying process involve adding to cart, pay. How different is it from anything else really?

We are talking about boarding a plane? How boot time of the MPC Live/One or a daw on a laptop is relevant?

throw_m2393395• 4 years ago

but all of those are not exactly like the OP-1: a fun, easy to use, ultraportable, immediate music creation sketchpad.

BULLSHIT. There are tons of things the OP-1 DOES NOT DO that other devices listed here actually do. And frankly the OP-1 synth sound like crap, so it's not really inspiring for some of us musicians... when it comes to fun, that $2000 thing with a crappy sequencer is not fun to me.

papandada• 4 years ago

I know it's not the same class, or what you mean, but gosh darn have I enjoyed making music with the $10 caustic android app.

NikolaNovak• 4 years ago

> the OP-1 is literally the only piece of music gear you can bring on an airplane and write a whole song.

Apart from...

* Laptop with your favourite DAW

* iPad with GarageBand or Android Tablet with Caustic

* I would put Novation Circuit in similar category though depends on your definition of whole song

* Synthstorm Deluge

* Digitakt Elektron?

* Some of the Roland grooveboxes and systems

* Some of the Akai APC/MPC or Native Instruments Machine? Not fully familiar with either but I thought e.g. Akai Live lets you do a full production

* Bunch of other stuff I'm sure I'm forgetting

I feel we are actually in a bonanza and cornucopia of portable music creation devices! And that's a good thing :). Heck even the Yamaha Reface is super portable, battery powered, real keyboard, lots of sounds, and you can hook it up to phone or a simple recorder/looper to make good stuff on the go. OP1 might be the smallest by some metrics, that may or may not be seen as a good thing.

hypertele-Xii2• 4 years ago

* Korg Electribe

biztos• 4 years ago

* Volca if $SONG < 256

* Kastle while $SONG == $DRONE

* Model::Samples while $SONG in @SAMPLES && isNotOnFire($BATTERY)

* !$BUDGET && PO-33

ciroduran• 4 years ago

Let's add the Nintendo Switch. I can get the KORG Gadget for 30£ and make some sweet tunes. Sure, to get the tunes out into something I can export sound from I'd need to get the KORG Gadget for iOS or Android, and from there to Ableton Live. But I've tried out the KORG Gadget on Switch and it's really fun to use.

buescher• 4 years ago

Yamaha QY70. I remember reading something 20 years ago, maybe more, about artists using it to compose while traveling. Probably Björk.

http://www.synthmania.com/qy70.htm

i_am_proteus• 4 years ago

Show me another way to write a song in an airplane, and you can have my money.

Pencil and staff paper.

My email address is in my profile if you would genuinely like to send me your money.

lodovic• 4 years ago

I'm having a hard time imagining boarding an airplane for a 6hr flight, whipping out the TE and headphones and then spending the entire flight composing a quality song. Really, who does that? There is just too much noise from the plane and I'd feel like seeking attention.

beepbooptheory• 4 years ago

You just need a pencil and paper to write a song on an airplane! Also, why would you want to do that? Can't think of a less inspiring environment.

severak_cz• 4 years ago

Cheaper way is to use Caustic 3 on old Android phone while commuting by bus. Been there, done that! :-D

Of course - it's all in software solution but it's pretty powerful actually. But it's more like a DAW or tracker style of things.

karmakaze• 4 years ago

I like others think I want an OP-1 even though I don't know exactly what it does. Reminds me of a great ad for an electronic measurement bench product with the headline "I want it. What does it do?"

I have been looking at the Roland TR-6S or T-8 to go with a portable DJ kit like the Reloop Ready.

krnlpnc3• 4 years ago

OP-1 is literally the only piece of music gear you can bring on an airplane and write a whole song.

Laptops exist too. And also who is writing whole songs on the OP-1? A song needs to be bounced, mastered and uploaded which is gonna require another device.

jwr• 4 years ago

But the OP-1 is literally the only piece of music gear you can bring on an airplane and write a whole song.

An iPad running Korg Gadget is much, much more capable, though arguably not as hip and cool.

idea55• 4 years ago

Proper first world drama here; not only must one be able to make music on a plane, one must do it with a $2,000 toy!

Why, anything else just can’t be done! It’s uncivilized!

lynndotpy• 4 years ago

Another example: Sunvox, runs on about everything. Extremely versatile for something that originally targeted Windows CE and Palm Pilot.

I don't make much music, but I've been having a blast tinkering with it.

throw_m2393395• 4 years ago

But the OP-1 is literally the only piece of music gear you can bring on an airplane and write a whole song.

This is just false, the Korg Electribe 2/ Sampler, the AKAI MPC 500, the Roland SP404, the Roland MC101, the Novation Circuit and many other devices allow the creation of whole songs and can easily be brought into a plane because they run on internal battery.

Why has no one else figured that out? With all these groove boxes etc, why has no other music gear taken the step of being portable and all-in-one.

These devices I listed might not do everything the OP-1 does, but the OP-1 doesn't do everything these devices do either. The OP-1 is hardly an all-in-one music device and certainly not the first portable groovebox that runs off battery power.

A Electribe 2/Sampler costs $300, not $2000.

Show me another way to write a song in an airplane, and you can have my money.

Answer my comment and I'll share with you my email for payment details. Put your money where your mouth is.

weatherlight2• 4 years ago

Polyend tracker, any MPC any Elektron groove box, The Roland MC-X0X series, Native Instruments Maschine +, Synthstorm Deluge, etc.

yep... There's quiet a few :)

squarefoot• 4 years ago

Show me another way to write a song in an airplane, and you can have my money.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E54uAhMBA1A

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9Q_d-rfzZPM

Note that the 1st video is from 2010.

aosaigh• 4 years ago

Who is this for? Is it for music professionals who can actually record music (or ideas) on the go? Or is it for wealthy enthusiasts who have cash to throw around at a fun piece of kit?

It's a beautiful piece of hardware from a design-first company and from all the reviews of the original it seems to be an excellent and unique music making machine, but at the price I'm just not sure who it's aimed at.

I'm not a musician but I've played the piano for a lot of my life. I'd love to experiment with making music and the original OP-1 looked like a lot of fun. I'd kept my eye on it and was thinking of pulling the trigger. At $1k+ though it was a total stretch for a non-professional. The new OP-1 at $2k+ is just ludicrous.

comboy2• 4 years ago

It's not ludicrous. It's rational decision on their part. OP-1 is still available, expensive and sells well.

If you want to experiment you have everything you want on your laptop. There are many alternative cheaper solutions. It is somewhat unique and well thought-out. The fact that you were considering it at $1k just proves their point.

enneff3• 4 years ago

It’s a great bit of fun that can produce interesting and surprising sounds. For a lot of musicians a fun piece of gear can be a source of inspiration, which can be very valuable. So yeah, it’s a toy, but you can make real music with toys.

malthaus• 4 years ago

I'm convinced TE is just a show case for pricing consultants

polyterative• 4 years ago

great design

voigt• 4 years ago

I hope for 2k bugs it has at least an „undo“-button.

The classic op1 doesn’t have one. Would increase my productivity dramatically.

capableweb14• 4 years ago

Unlikely. People hailed the lack of undo (and the tape-recorder) as a feature because it makes you either commit to your mistakes, or having to re-record. Not for me, but that's what I've heard people say about it.

And also, "undo" is mentioned nowhere, and since they add "new packaging" to their list of features, I think undo would be mentioned there if it had it. I've heard an equal amount of people praising the lack of undo, as berating the OP-1 for lacking one, so they surely would have added it if they wanted to.

planb• 4 years ago

I have absolutely no use for the products made by teenage engineering, as I don't have a clue about audio production. But scolling thought their store, I still want to own these beatiful devices.

danielvaughn• 4 years ago

same! I’m vaguely interested in the idea of programmatically creating music, but I don’t think that’s the TE products are for, but still…I want one.

throw_m2393395• 4 years ago

I have absolutely no use for the products made by teenage engineering, as I don't have a clue about audio production. But scolling thought their store, I still want to own these beatiful devices.

Because you are the target, people who like nice looking hip things and can afford it. That device doesn't do much, doesn't sound particularly good, and certainly is sold to you at a premium. No wonder these products are sold at the MOMA...

httpsterio• 4 years ago

I beg to differ. I mean sure, the OP-1 isn't as versatile as a laptop with a good daw and a few plugins but hardware still has its' place in some producers' gear bag. For a standalone device it's extremely versatile and it does sound good.

xd1936• 4 years ago

Same. I have two of their Pocket Operators[1] which I love, and an OB-4 radio[2], but I'm mostly an enthusiast of their work from afar. If you're casually interested in messing around with music, the POs are a lot of fun and relatively inexpensive!

1. https://teenage.engineering/products/po

2. https://teenage.engineering/products/ob-4

thih9• 4 years ago

There are some nice improvements, but also:

ERGONOMIC POWER SWITCH
NEW METRONOME SOUND
NEW PACKAGING
INCREASED TOMBOLA SIMULATION ACCURACY

It's nice to have a company that doesn't take themselves too seriously. How are people paying 2k for that though, I do not know.

KingOfCoders• 4 years ago

$2000 - Teenage engineering worked hard to become an identy product and now can charge for it. If you sell identity, no price is too high. Do I want one? Yes. Do I buy one? No the identity tax is too high for me.

(though I like my Teenage Engineering PO-20, but a Novation Circuit works for my dabbling with sequencing).

possibleworlds• 4 years ago

Off topic, but does anyone have stereo OD11s? I’m seriously interested in these as an alternative to spending too much money on a two channel system that beams at a single sweet spot.

Shadonototra• 4 years ago

i have no idea what this is, but what a beautifully designed thing, it makes me want to use it, just to feel it lol

fbanon2• 4 years ago

I know a number of electronic musicians, and none of them has an OP-1, or anything from TE. The only person I know with an OP-1 is a designer at a startup I worked for, and he "didn't get around using it much yet".

So yeah, the $2000 price point will work great for them, given their customer demographics :)

alin23• 4 years ago

Well there’s this guy on YouTube who demos all kinds of synths and got a huge following from his OP-1 videos: https://youtu.be/7z4hoazra_g

The video shows me that OP-1 is a pretty cool all-in-one package, but it probably needs honing a special skill to work with it as smoothly as that guy does.

mrkwse• 4 years ago

Even with RMR though, he's pretty much moved away from the OP-1 videos, I can't recall the video where he explained why 100%, but I think he found it a bit creatively constraining.

dbeley• 4 years ago

Yeah what he doesn't show is the difficulty of learning all the quirks and features of the OP-1.

Professional musicians or even hobbyists prefer to buy several specialized devices that do one thing very well instead of having a very expensive device that can do a little bit of everything but with some limitations.

paxys• 4 years ago

Heck I doubt anyone in the music production industry even knows what Teenage Engineering is. They make toys for rich techies, but that's it.

Slow_Hand• 4 years ago

Record producer here. We certainly do. It’s a well-known product that’s not uncommon to see being used by people.

I’d never decide to use one for my needs, but it is common enough to find among many music makers.

j5r5myk• 4 years ago

I know a few professional musicians who have them and you can look up a host of famous musicians who are known to use them: Diplo, Bon Iver, Deadmau5, Yasutaka Nakata, even Ariana Grande has one. It seems to occupy a similar space to the Elektron products —- high end with a steep learning curve

hammyhavoc13• 4 years ago

There isn't much of a learning curve. Modern Elektron products also don't have much of a learning curve versus their pre-Digi lineup.

krnlpnc3• 4 years ago

I was so excited to see the announcement! Finally some new OP-1 stock will drive the prices back down to the original ~$700 mark. Nope!

On what planet is this actually worth $2000?

I'm really disappointed to see TE become this lifestyle company and continue jacking up their prices.

nathanvanfleet• 4 years ago

I feel like I have also seen this in the espresso community. Companies sprung up that are address a boutique audience that ultimately seems to be best-in-class but also charge some astronomical prices.

9999000009993• 4 years ago

An iPad Mini + a Bluetooth midi keyboard will do anything this can do better and easier.

You pay for the brand and to say on Twitter that you use hardware

hammyhavoc13• 4 years ago

"Hardware". It's DSP. It doesn't even have an analog filter, right?

3232• 4 years ago

see TE become this lifestyle company

TE always was a lifestyle company. All their products, including their gaming device, are about looking cool. Which is why device thinness is extremely important and the first thing they talk about. Just like Apple.

You don't buy a TE device to actually make music, you buy it to impress people about how creative you are, how you are not a pleb consumerist.

yunwal• 4 years ago

I feel like looking cool is definitely a factor, but the OP-1 is also about being portable and fitting into your lifestyle. Photographers will tell you that "the best camera is the one you have with you", and the OP-1 is like the phone camera of music. It's like a step up from singing into a voice memo. You can use it to capture ideas reasonably accurately whenever you feel inspired, and refine them later at an actual workstation.

Obviously not everyone will think this is worth $2000, and there's definitely an element of status symbol there, but I've genuinely enjoyed owning one.

elihu• 4 years ago

The original OP-1 was kind of expensive, but it was a unique product that a middle-class person might buy if they're really into creative music making. Sort of like how a middle-class person might buy a high-quality guitar -- because they feel it's worth it and there isn't n less expensive option that they'd be satisfied with.

I feel like at a $1999 price point, though, they've crossed into territory where their products are going to increasingly be seen as being only for rich people, and I think it's starting to hurt their credibility. The coverage of their new mixer on /r/synthesizers was overwhelmingly negative. It's like if Apple suddenly decided that going forward all their products would be gold plated and cost twice as much. If you make it too obvious that the point of the product is to flaunt wealth, then that detracts from it being just a product that's interesting, pleasant to use, and useful in some context.

spoonjim• 4 years ago

TE is following the Apple playbook to a T: fanatical obsession with appearance/image/brand positioning PLUS absolutely excellent engineering PLUS extreme price markups. The result is a product that has a bananas price tag but also has no real substitutes.

Gigachad2• 4 years ago

I'm not sure that really holds true for Apple. Almost every one of their products has huge competition where Apple usually still holds the title for best value product.

They have a few products like the Studio Display which don't have many direct replacements but all of Apples mainstream products are just good value.

cxcorp• 4 years ago

The hi-fi audiophile world is certainly an expensive one.

hammyhavoc13• 4 years ago

Music production isn't "hi-fi audiophile", and the OP-1 isn't hi-fi, nor audiophile, if anything, it is lo-fi.

krnlpnc3• 4 years ago

From 2011:

Finally. After more than two years of development the OP-1 is now ready for production. Due to initial limited supply we now accept reservations. Manufacturing, assembly and shipping will be eight weeks.

$799

https://web.archive.org/web/20110201230202/http://namm.teena...

tibbon• 4 years ago

As a studio enthusiast and electronic musician, I always felt this was a reasonable price for the OP-1. I have a _lot_ of synths here, ranging from the high end Moog Voyager to various Pocket Operators by Teenage Engineering.

$2000 however is just too much for this. The Polyend Tracker sells for $500 used in comparison, and while its drastically different - is vaguely competitive to the OP-1.

tarentel2• 4 years ago

Polyend also just announced another groovebox that is vaguely competitive to the op-1 for $800. Looks a bit like a slimmed down deluge, which for half the price of the new OP-1, I would highly recommend to anyone who wants a portable music station or groovebox in general. I've had it for about 5 years now and they are still actively working on it which is a nice bonus.

tweetle_beetle• 4 years ago

Wasn't it originally manufactured in Europe to boot? Seem to remember a major price rise coming when they had moved production to Asia. There were many people selling their used European models for more than they had paid because it was still cheaper than the new RRP.

I guess TE took advantage of demand for an established product and use it to subsidise their other lines and new development, which I can't see them selling much volume on for the most part (maybe Pocket Operators?).

tmountain4• 4 years ago

I owned and sold an OP-1. It is a beautiful piece of hardware and its analog controls and mashable buttons provide a more tactile experience than an iPad does.

That said, the sounds it ships with really leave something to be desired. My subjective opinion is that anyone who's played with a best in class software synth (i.e., equator2) is going to find themselves feeling pretty limited by the blippy tones that you get out of the box.

Sure, you can load up the sampler with tons of cool tones and op1.fun is a wonderful resource, but it's a lot of work to go curate a bunch of sounds to compensate for a lackluster palette.

I can already hear people saying that I'm missing the point and that the constraints are designed to inspire creativity, etc. I respect that point of view, but at the end of the day, my creative time is at a premium, and I'd like to use that time to create stuff that I'm proud to show friends and family.

Most of the stuff I produced with the OP-1 sounded like video game music or music for a kid's cartoon (i.e., Adventure Time). If that's your thing, then awesome! If not, I'd consider the core tonal possibilities before you make a big investment.

tarentel2• 4 years ago

As someone who produces electronic music I kind of dig the limitations of the op-1. At a 2k price point though with those limitations in mind I can't justify the price. Even at ~1300 or whatever the old model is going for I can't justify the price. For cheaper you can get both a digitakt and a digitone, which I own the latter, and they sound 1000 times better than the op-1 although each respectively do quite a lot less. I was actually pretty excited to see this until I saw the price. I have spent a lot of money on electronic music gear, way more than 2000, and I'm a bit baffled about who this is for exactly.

zimpenfish• 4 years ago

Even at ~1300 or whatever the old model is going for [...] you can get both a digitakt and a digitone

You could probably get an iPad, a USB midi dongle, a midi keyboard, and a whole suite of software for that, too.

hammyhavoc13• 4 years ago

£2000 isn't much to spend in total. That's one semi-decent synth that'll be on a par with a decent VST.

evo_92• 4 years ago

Yeah I agree, it's not really a great choice as your 'main synth'. I think it's really meant to be a self-contained portable 'music sketchpad'. I owned 2 at one point thinking maybe that was the issue, I like to double up my gear (for example I like to use two TB-303 layered); when that didn't work out the way I hoped on the OP1s I sold them and both were bought separately by traveling musicians that wanted something to noodle with/ sketch with while on tour buses, or killing time at the hotel.

So I think it's a funny product that has a lot of 'nerd appeal' but at its heart it's a pretty powerful devices, maybe often miss-used.

Also - having played with both 'hardware' and VST's I do prefer VSTs because of the ease of use; aka you can reload a track in seconds in Live versus spending 30+ repatching your gear, swooping out gear, etc (and then it's still not quite the same, but that's part of the magic of 'real hardware' I suppose).

But at the end of the day the music I created with VST's versus real hardware wasn't different at all sonically so I am 100% in the camp of VSTs are awesome.

That said, you need to be careful selecting a VST.They go 'stale' and become a liability, so for example if I open up projects from 5+ years back, almost none of them work now. So going forward, I'm going to be more careful, and probably buy VST's only from companies I expect to be around for the long haul.

nkingsy2• 4 years ago

Korg Module is the best noodler out there and it’s 20 bucks. I’ve tried a few portable hardware sequencers, but module on my phone fits the bill so much better.

Just finished a verse and got halfway through a chorus on a 30 minute ferry ride and I didn’t even have to remember to bring anything but my phone.

tmountain4• 4 years ago

You're making a good point about VST compatibility over time. One way to at least ensure a track remains playable is to bounce your midi tracks to separate audio tracks (waveform). Clearly, you lose the flexibility that comes with manipulating the original score, but you're guaranteed to be able to playback, eq, and mix the original performance. Not ideal, but better than nothing.

freerobby• 4 years ago

Agree about the built-in sounds, but I solved that pretty quickly by adding things like mellotron samples to it.

chaosprint7• 4 years ago

I am wondering if you can recall that whether one can create complex rhythm like this on OP-1?

https://glicol-tidal.netlify.app

The BPM can be changed in real-time and not limited to 4, 8, 16, 32 grids of sequences.

andkon• 4 years ago

This was like five years ago that I had one, but as far as I remember, OP-1 isn't grid-based (though maybe some of the instruments are?). It's basically like a four track tape mixer. You can loop bar-by-bar, and then copy from bar to bar. And you can stretch time in the same way that you would with a reel-to-reel tape deck. But as far as I remember it won't transpose / warp the sounds along with the change in BPM.

tmountain4• 4 years ago

It has 4 dedicated sequencers. They're locked to whatever tempo the metronome is configured for. You can mix durations pretty fluidly with the endless sequencer (8th, 16th notes/rests), but you definitely cannot change tempo in a given beat--at least not without jumping through a bunch of hoops bouncing and re-recording tracks, etc. There's a basic grid type sequencer as well, but that doesn't meet your criteria.

hammyhavoc13• 4 years ago

Knocking VGM, yet most innovation is happening there. Lol.

blueblob• 4 years ago

As someone not in the field of audio engineering, I had no idea what this product is. The website focused on describing all the features without giving a simple 1-2 line description of what the product even is.

luckydata• 4 years ago

it's the kind of thing that if you don't know it's not for you. very hipster product for weird electronic musicians, more of a fashion statement than anything else really.

neoCrimeLabs• 4 years ago

The newly announced Polyend Play and Teenage Engineering OP-1 Field are great examples of very different UX and very different workflows to solve a similar problem - making music without a computer, creatively, ideally with a flow state.

It's very interesting just looking at how they do it.

Dunno if I will get either one, or both. Either way, I do appreciate the direction they are going in. :-)

thallavajhula• 4 years ago

I have no idea what this device even is, but it looks beautiful and I want to try it out.

YoyoyoPCP• 4 years ago

The OP-1 has been the single most inspiring tool I've had in a decade. Every other sampler I've bought has always failed to reliably draw me in.

There is no putting a price on creativity. Sure, the competition can compete on specs and price, but they never seem to get me to want to turn them on like the OP-1.

Just my opinion of course. But it is already a classic at this point and is deserving of respect.

randomcarbloke• 4 years ago

I do want it but man is it expensive, $1999...

riwsky• 4 years ago

Bon Iver, 2015 interview:

the thing I’m working with the most is the OP-1. It’s a sampler-based synthesizer, and I honestly think it’s the most important instrument that’s come into my life since I first picked up a guitar when I was 12 years old. I’m not exaggerating at all. I never leave the house without it. I don’t travel with the guitar anymore. I travel with just my OP-1. It’s been a big deal living with this thing. I love making music with it. I love traveling with it. I like using it as a writing extension. It’s a really special technology, essentially what a guitar is to me.

https://grantland.com/hollywood-prospectus/lost-in-the-world...

zasdffaa• 4 years ago

The cow. Why?

cestith• 4 years ago

This is yet another Teenage Engineering bauble that as an interested amateur I love to look at and at 1/4 to 1/3 the price might consider buying. I'm glad their target market can justify their prices because their stuff is really nice. I'm just not part of it.

gitowiec• 4 years ago

Too expensive. But I'm glad there are people that can utilise it well! Eg. RedMeansRecording channel on YouTube!

psychomugs• 4 years ago

It would be amazing, and not too unlike TE, if they released some of these features as updates to the original OP-1. I'm particularly interested in the new tape recording styles.

elliotlarson• 4 years ago

Even for a Teenage Engineering product, I have sticker shock over this and their field mixer. They're nice products, but the premium is so high. I mean, I kind of get it. Their original OP-1 remains the top selling synth after 10 years. And the product is much loved and used (at least on Youtube). But, for the price of an OP-1 Field you can get a couple of Elektron digi-boxes, with a bit of money left over. This is certainly more portable... but wow $2,000 is a bit steep. I mean, I still want it, of course.

verilux682• 4 years ago

How many of the people in this thread saying:

The OP-1 is only for rich techies. Musicians don’t use it.

Are folks who enjoy making music & who have tried the OP-1?

mit20220401• 4 years ago

have read some comments here:

"They have the best designers, i feel like in the US we have no taste, i knew this couldn't be an American company." -- @iamricks

how about monome (https://monome.org/norns)?

@chaosprint

glicol is cool. another two interesting live coding languages are tidal (https://tidalcycles.org) and orca (https://100r.co/site/orca.html)

leach• 4 years ago

I've always wanted to buy the OP-1 because it's such a cool little device. I'm not very talented when it comes to making music though so the steep price tag has always kept me away. Maybe one day i'll buy one

chaosprint7• 4 years ago

Perhaps you can try this to make music in the browser:

https://learningmusic.ableton.com

Or my work:

https://glicol.org

dreamcompiler2• 4 years ago

This is an absolutely magical device that nevertheless makes me sad.

When I was a kid I thought I'd be riding around in flying cars by now. The problem ended up surprising me: It's not that flying cars don't exist--they do. The problem is they cost a million dollars because every one is built by hand. So there's no way I'll ever own one.

I'd also like to have a portable synth with great sound, long battery life, a multitude of handy features, and excellent design. But it's the same surprising problem as the flying cars: The technology to build it exists but it costs 10x what I'd be comfortable paying.

I'd be okay paying 2x for the great design, but 10x just makes the thing a piece of wealth-signifying jewelry. Even if somebody gave me one, I'd never want anybody to know I had it.

hammyhavoc13• 4 years ago

A laptop satisfies most needs. If you can't make a modern VST sound good, the problem isn't the tools.

dreamcompiler2• 4 years ago

Agreed, but I love the idea of a real keyboard that's self-contained.

lucidlive• 4 years ago

$2k? Yikes. I’m sure it’s cool cause I had the original OP-1 and it was lots of fun. But that’s just too expensive. You can get a serious analog synth at that price.

rzr999• 4 years ago

Are they happy to sell less for this price?

OP-1 field

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