Airbnb is in midlife crisis mode

https://www.wired.com/story/airbnb-is-in-midlife-crisis-mode-reinvention-app-services/

by thomasjudge • 1 year ago

242 550 1 year ago

    reinvention of Airbnb

I cannot for the life of me figure out why these companies don't just stick to their core.

AirBnB provides an amazing service, the ability to painlessly book hotels that feel like houses.

I guarantee you they are not going to be the next Apple or Microsoft, they're instead just going to dilute the value of their core business chasing things that aren't going to work, instead of focusing on their core service, and then in so many years time they will become irrelevant rather than inevitable.

elteto• 1 year ago

Because the writing is sort of on the wall for airbnb's current business model. Local regulations are finally catching up to them, limiting new listings or applying the same taxes and fees applied to regular hotels. And airbnb's are not cheaper anymore, and many times not any more convenient than a hotel, due crappy hosts and their excessive fees and regulations.

Airbnb is still a great option if the location is under served by normal hotels, or if you are traveling with families so you want to have a kitchen/amenities. But otherwise I almost exclusively book hotels now.

enos_feedler3• 1 year ago

For travel it’s just an option and always will be. Thats okay because the travel use case only hits most people once or twice a year. The future of Airbnb was and always will be using that option as entry point into your life at home. The app update and launch into these lifestyle categories are the starting point of this.

They chose to stick experiences and services as a root choice in the mobile app, not something that is attached to a booking or stay you already have. While I expect the major use case to be using these new services during a stay, the app design shows they are paving a future where you take some of what you loved about your airbnb stay back home with you.

fellowniusmonk• 1 year ago

I will always love AirBnB for driving down prices by breaking the hotel cartels in major cities.

Over 10 years ago I rented a folding couch right off of Pearl ST. Boulder, CO.

I stayed in the living room of someones 1 bedroom apartment for $300 a night instead of 1k+ a night for the equivalent at what amounted to a travel lodge motel. The prices there were out of control, no inventory, just awful.

There are "plausible deniability" cartels everywhere, it's and it's always nice to see their grip on a region drop.

onlyrealcuzzo• 1 year ago

AirBNB forced hotels to MASSIVELY upgrade.

There used to be very few hotels with kitchenettes, any space really beside just a bed.

There's way more suite and kitchenette options.

Lots of people travel for longer than just a night or two, or to travel beyond just business, where you might want to be able to actually enjoy being in your private space.

Hotels weren't really designed for this.

They wanted you to never be in your room, and instead upselling you at the bar.

Now, you can pretty easily find relatively affordable hotels that have many different types of rooms layouts for all different purposes.

Now, that defeats a lot of the point in having an AirBNB.

As you said, AirBNB is really only good if you're traveling somewhere with lousy hotel options, you're going to be staying somewhere for a long time, or traveling in a huge group, or you want to host a rager party or something...

musicale• 1 year ago

Local regulations are finally catching up to them

Dodging regulation and taxes was Airbnb's biggest competitive advantage.

Regulatory entrepreneurship only works long-term if you can continue to dodge, or change, the law (either statutes or case law.)

We will see what happens with all of the AI companies who claim fair use.

firesteelrain6• 1 year ago

You can get the same experience with VRBO. People list in both usually. AirBNB hasn’t cornered the market. Plus, VRBO or sites like VacationRentals pre dated AirBNB

bcoates5• 1 year ago

I don't get airbnbs because they're cheaper, I get them because I want to rent something other than a hotel room. If best western had in-laws or 1br quadplexes I'd be happy to stay there, but most hotels I've stayed at are bad rooms in bad locations that almost always include at least one negative surprise every trip, and as you move up to more expensive ones they somehow get fancier but worse.

nadermx• 1 year ago

I think paypal is probably an example of why this is probably imposible for a publicly traded company.

Paypals revenues have been growing for ever. They basically do just one thing. But since the market in that one thing has a limit. The market can only price in a certain amount so the stock never grows.

So they look for growth else where

popularonion• 1 year ago

TLDR

It is also revitalizing an unsuccessful experiment the company began in 2016: offering bespoke local activities, or what it calls “experiences.” The next stage, launch date unspecified, involves making your profile on Airbnb so robust that it’s “almost like a passport,” as Chesky puts it
After that comes a deep immersion into AI: Inspired by his relationship with Altman, Chesky hopes to build the ultimate agent, a super-concierge who starts off handling customer service and eventually knows you well enough to plan your travel and maybe the rest of your life.

That kind of makes sense to me - Airbnb must have learned to deal with trust/safety/reputation issues better than basically any other consumer app based company (except maybe Uber/Lyft)

Looking at incumbents:

Tour booking - TripAdvisor and Viator, not enough network effect

Home services - Angie's List and Thumbtack, not enough network effect

Events and concerts - Ticketmaster, enough said

Classified ads - Facebook Marketplace, enough said

Gym and fitness - Classpass, which I think is pretty good actually, but definitely going to be acquired or copied by Big Tech

Volunteer event hosting - Meetup, anyone under 40 even remember that?

datadrivenangel• 1 year ago

Luma is on it's way to being the new meetup

subpixel3• 1 year ago

“ Airbnb must have learned to deal with trust/safety/reputation issues better than basically any other consumer app based company”

Not at all. Basically all reviews on Airbnb are positive bc of the threat of retaliation. Your reviews are like your social credit score, not worth threatening to post a negative but honest review.

guywithahat• 1 year ago

Because when companies stick to their core values, you end up with Yelp

toomuchtodo2• 1 year ago

Compression of their enterprise value and share price, governed by TAM. The transition from growth company to boring incumbent.

keyle• 1 year ago

     I cannot for the life of me figure out why these companies don't just stick to their core.

Because those CEO are unhappy. They want more in their life, they want everything; so that maybe then, they'll be fulfilled.

The path to success is made by many failures; and when you get to success, you can't take the success, you can't be 'done', you need more success. It's a long form of chasing the next dopamine rush.

He probably hasn't felt more alive than the week he threw everything in the blender. It's a mix of issues that starts with childhood and leads to a life of addiction for more.

On the cover of a magazine, it's an inspiring story, but deep down it's a sad human trait.

All power to him though, it sure makes for interesting stories.

bsimpson7• 1 year ago

“I’m 43 and at a crossroads, where I can either be almost done or just getting started,” he tells me. “There's a scenario where I'm basically done. Airbnb is very profitable. We've kind of, mostly, nailed vacation rentals. But we can do more.”

vips7L• 1 year ago

Their core business isn’t profitable long term.

technofiend• 1 year ago

"Duty to the shareholders": if you aren't the CEO growing revenue quarter over quarter, then your mostly stock compensation is worthless and the board is interviewing replacements.

coolcase• 1 year ago

Growf

spinarrets3• 1 year ago

I cannot for the life of me figure out why these companies don't just stick to their core.

Greed. Founders and employees who cannot understand the value of a sustainable business that does one thing well and keeps people employed. We shouldn't seek to grow indefinitely, we should seek to reach comfortable levels of success and then focus our efforts on rewarding the people who are clients and employees maximally.

bigstrat20033• 1 year ago

Yeah, I spent the whole time reading this article wondering "has this man lost his mind?". Airbnb works great for what it is. But nobody wants it to be an "everything" platform, and all that the CEO is accomplishing is wasting money chasing ventures that have no real chance of success. And that's if those ventures don't cause their actual business to suffer because resources are being spent elsewhere.

theGnuMe2• 1 year ago

Here is how it should work. When people go on vacation they want an Apple like experience where it all just works. That is what AirBnB needs to sell. The only other person who probably understands this is Richard Branson (and Disney)... call it AirBnB Concierge (or even AirBnB vacations) to blend in the AmEx style angle. It's easy peasy Chesky, make it happen.

afavour2• 1 year ago

That's exactly where Airbnb's business model collapses. They don't own or run the properties. They'll never be able to offer "it all just works" at any meaningful scale.

theGnuMe2• 1 year ago

I think they can. It is pretty easy to start simply and experiment: AirBnB San Francisco. AirBnb Paris. AirBnB London. I'll give you an example. My wife is going to France with friends and we can pay money for a good experience but they are going 5-star and we can only afford 3-4 star which is where an AirBnB is also competitive. This sub-luxe market is wide open. If AirBnB isn't interested this is a YC startup for anyone who is.

subpixel3• 1 year ago

People want a hotel like experience where it all just works.

Airbnb had novelty, inventory, and savings as its special sauce.

Nowadays we all know what a sub-par, overpriced Airbnb is like and it’s worse than a hotel because it’s usually far more inconvenient.

So we’re back to a hotel like experienced as the desire: convenience, available, and competitively priced.

nine_k3• 1 year ago

AirBnB allows you to find a temporary dwelling in places where hotels are few, or absent.

AirBnB also provides extra capacity when a city or town gets overcrowded due to an event (matches, concerts, convents, etc). Building a proper hotel is much more capital intensive than converting a house or an apartment into an AirBnB place, and back into a normal long-term rent unit, or your own abode, when needed.

efavdb• 1 year ago

FWIW I’ve probably stayed in 30+ airbnbs over more than a decade and the experience has been almost universally superior to hotels. Not denying others have had different experience, but always find these threads surprising.

s1artibartfast3• 1 year ago

I would like a pony and a million dollars, but the real world is full of tradeoffs.

Vacation rental fulfil a niche that hotels do not, and I don't understand people who view them as substitutes. The fewer people use them the better. More for me and at better prices.

That said, Im probably not the median consumer. When I vacation, hotels cover almost none of my needs.

Im looking for a private beachfront Jacuzzi, hobbit hut in the forest, or someplace to party with family and kids.

I cant imagine using one as a hotel substitute.

aarondf• 1 year ago

I think https://www.wander.com beat them to it! Wander is what I think AirBnB should've become.

FabHK• 1 year ago

USA only?

CuriousRose2• 1 year ago

It amazes me that companies like AirBnB get huge valuations and user bases when the fundamental feature of searching for listings is phenomenally atrocious.

- Paginated results that reset and call an API for new results when the map is moved (even to a subset of the initial call such as in a zoom).

- Inability to change pagination size.

- Inability to hide listings you aren't interested in.

- Map only displaying listings on the current page, which change dramatically per page.

- Page changes (the thing you do more of than comparing options), take way too long.

Maybe it's a real-estate website related issue as the two main property sites in Australia (Domain and RealEstate) as also garbage. I have a feeling it's also designed this way to prevent scraping.

Can someone at AirBnB please sort these basic QoL things out.

nine_k3• 1 year ago

Did you notice that the search at Amazon is not that precise? It's not because they could not make it more precise. Equally, did you notice how milk and bread are in the opposite end of the grocery store? It's not because they could not put them next to the entrance. I suspect that a similar factor can be in play here.

As of slowness, I suspect they don't have a DC an Australia, so your packets need to travel across Pacific and back.

I also suspect that their web site already brings enough customers, and a serious rework to make it more usable won't bring in many more customers, and any more money. Investing in that is likely a poor business decision. I bet their resources mostly go to protection from fraud, legal battles, and other non-engineering concerns.

CuriousRose2• 1 year ago

I understand your point, nobody is claiming that separating the bread and milk is a particularly good experience either and while it probably makes more money in a physical store where you want to buy multiple options at once, this doesn't apply to AirBnB with a single item checkout. The search at Amazon almost always gets me what I want on the first page, which is the desired behaviour almost everywhere to reduce friction to checkout. Why would I want to increase user frustration and bounce rate on a single product checkout?

I imagine significantly reducing database calls and blob downloads due to short-sighted pagination behaviour would result in significant cost saving, reduce bounce rate and increase conversions.

jampa• 1 year ago

There are even more search issues that sometimes make it unusable:

- Impossible to filter / search by rating, which is a must-have if I am going to travel, no way I am risking staying at a first-time host, a lot of horror stories from forgetting bedsheets to outright scams.

- There is no way to see the precise location, which is understandable for safety in some places (mostly listings in areas with "single-family" similar neighborhoods, like Orlando suburbs, you don't want to advertise your home as "available"). But, in some cities, for example, in Rio, a large radius can make you uncertain if the apartment listing is beachside or in the favela's entrance.

jbaiter• 1 year ago

As somebody traveling with small children, what's even more frustrating is that AirBnB seems to have a tag "Well reviewed by families", but refuses to allow you to search for it. Which means using more indirect filters (like "has a baby bed") and clicking through dozens of listings to find one with that tag. I get why they do it (looking at more listing is great for them), but I feel like they're wasting my time and it sucks, researching holidays is a frustrating timesink as it is, and they make it worse.

projectazorian2• 1 year ago

Nobody is incentivized to fix those things, so they don't get fixed. Nobody ever got promoted for making small UI tweaks.

Much better to spend years on an expensive redesign that somehow makes the user experience worse. Now that's how you get ahead.

dbg31415• 1 year ago

Airbnb started strong, but it has become a minefield for travelers. Scam listings have exploded -- Airbnb admitted in 2023 that it removed nearly 60,000 fake ones, but that's only a fraction of what slips through. Investigations like one by VICE uncovered organized scams exploiting the platform for years, yet Airbnb has been slow to implement meaningful preventative measures. Meanwhile, pricing has grown increasingly deceptive: hosts tack on hefty cleaning and service fees, often doubling the advertised nightly rate. Although Airbnb recently added an option to show total prices up front, it's not the default, and hidden costs remain a major complaint.

Even more troubling are the widespread privacy violations. Thousands of guests have reported hidden cameras in their rentals -- some even found in bedrooms and bathrooms. Airbnb didn't ban indoor cameras until March 2024, after more than a decade of complaints and several high-profile criminal cases. Combined with fake photos, misleading descriptions, and little accountability for bad hosts, it's clear the trust that once defined the platform has eroded. Airbnb didn't just lose its shine -- it actively neglected the safety and transparency that made it appealing in the first place.

https://www.vice.com/en/article/nationwide-fake-host-scam-on...

7thaccount2• 1 year ago

Yep. A few bad experiences and never again. The idea is pretty nice, but it always adds a layer of stress with the unreasonable cleaning demands and all. Hotels are more consistent and I know what I'm going to get as long as I stick with one of the main brands. I don't have to clean the entire house either.

digianarchist6• 1 year ago

These common negative experiences have spawned memes mocking the company.

https://img-s-msn-com.akamaized.net/tenant/amp/entityid/BB1n...

tayo422• 1 year ago

added an option to show total prices up front, it's not the default,

Pretty sure the only price you can see now is the total price.

I was looking a couple weeks ago and got annoyed that I couldn't find nightly price or how it breaks down

jenkins6g• 1 year ago

I have an airbnb experience and just hired 2 people. Airbnb decided to pause my experience for no reason. Tried hitting up their support but they didn't provide a reason for the pause and a date when it would be resumed. This is why you never rely on one customer channel

92834092322• 1 year ago

Airbnb has been trying to push their "experiences" and they are mostly bad. The ones that were recommended to me were either far out of my target city or very nondescript. I hope more cities start to regulate Airbnb out of existence. I was comparing hotels and Airbnbs for a recent trip and found 25 houses that were Airbnbs owned by the same person. Completely absurd.

pyaamb3• 1 year ago

As bad as they are I'd still want to have them around to keep hotel prices in check

zouhair2• 1 year ago

No, I don't care about hotels or hotel prices. People need places to live. You can deal with Hotel prices a bit high. There are millions of people in rich countries right now having hard time paying rent or finding any.

darkwizard422• 1 year ago

This is wholesale resolved by building more housing (which Airbnbs or short term rentals do not make a meaningful dent in anyway).

satvikpendem5• 1 year ago

Zoning laws are a way bigger restriction on housing than anything else, Airbnb is a symptom and arguably a scapegoat compared to the dampening of the demand of building new housing supply.

betaby3• 1 year ago

Even in very popular cities AirBnBs are less than 0.1% of the residential dwellings. AirBnBs have negligible effect on a rent.

lmm2• 1 year ago

And those countries have tried literally everything except making it legal to build more housing.

pyaamb3• 1 year ago

FWIW I'm fully behind you on more housing and an especially aggressive tax on entities owning multiple properties as investments.

bsimpson7• 1 year ago

With lodging, they have the risk of people finding a listing off-platform and paying cash, but because lodging is such a key aspect of a trip, people are often willing to pay the premium to have everything vetted/supported by Airbnb.

With personal services, they're risking having that problem at a lot bigger scale: are you willing to pay your barber or masseuse 18% extra to cover Airbnb's commission? I suspect a lot of people would use Airbnb to find a reputable provider, and then make contact off-platform.

darkwizard422• 1 year ago

People said the same thing about Wag. Ultimately if the platform acts as good lead gen and offers other protections and benefits it will work out!

pests• 1 year ago

Didn't Homejoy fall victim to this? People would just contract directly with any cleaners cutting them out completely.

JohnMakin2• 1 year ago

I am not a chronic traveler but never understood the appeal of airbnb. Most low-mid to midrange chain hotels offer reasonably clean rooms for equivalent (or sometimes cheaper) price than airbnb after fees and I don’t need to play housekeeper either, or worry about weird owners, which seems to me like the whole nice thing about renting a short term place to sleep.

dayjah2• 1 year ago

I have a 17 month old and she needs a dedicated space to nap; this is price prohibitive in hotels (suites, etc). So while I typically hate Airbnb, it’s the only solution for us right now.

firesteelrain6• 1 year ago

Might try Embassy Suites. Front room can be closed off

sndean• 1 year ago

Same here, plus if you’re traveling with extended family (like siblings’ families) the total price can become insane in a hotel. And feeding all of those people is cheaper if you have a normal sized kitchen.

I just wish more Airbnbs had really dark rooms with blackout curtains. Hotels normally have that covered

s1artibartfast3• 1 year ago

I love ABNB, but I dont see it anywhere near the same market as a hotel. I wouldnt use it on a work trip, but travel with my wife and friends.

Perks of ABNB- Private jacuzzi, functional kitchen for large group meals. Stay with friends and their kids under the same roof.

I can't gut a fish or leave gear on the porch at a hotel.

Beyond that, I value beauty and character, and find hotels devoid of both.

satvikpendem5• 1 year ago

It has a kitchen, which comes in very handy when you want to save money and cook.

firesteelrain6• 1 year ago

VRBO was around before AirBNB and it’s much better

OptionOfT• 1 year ago

This is my number 1 reason. Eating out is expensive, and it is very hard to do so healthy.

tayo422• 1 year ago

All these years of airbnb and vacation rentals being popular and hotels still seem to not try to accommodate these needs

JohnMakin2• 1 year ago

I've rented plenty of rooms with a kitchen, or at least a kitchenette.

alasano• 1 year ago

I like hotels but I love renting someplace unique and pretending that I live in that city or place for a week or two.

I understand your point if all you're looking for is somewhere to sleep that's clean and comfy.

an0malous• 1 year ago

It’s just the standard investor grift where initially Airbnb was cheaper and had higher quality options, then once they established a dominant market position they enshitified

blahyawnblah• 1 year ago

I'm not a huge fan of Airbnb but having a spot where 8 people can all hang out together without having to walk across a hotel can be nice.

massysett• 1 year ago

Hotels have been disgusting for years. They weren’t great before Covid. After Covid hotel owners stopped cleaning during your stay. Trash piles up in my room, with guests leaving trash in the halls. Carpets quickly get nasty. Nobody cleaning up the common hallways.

An Airbnb isn’t cleaned during my stay either, but at least the trash can can hold a day’s worth of trash, and there’s a proper kitchen and more space.

If hotels brought back proper service I would prefer them.

iambateman• 1 year ago

I love ABNB and I hope they can find a long-term business that works. Their original promise was so interesting and exciting…but reality has kind of caught up.

They’re kind of like Uber, in that way. But where Uber has become faceless and quiet, Airbnb wants to be a leader, and I respect that. Certainly there’s lots of cool things that _could_ happen with experiences, and I hope they do.

tonyarkles• 1 year ago

Yeah, Uber has pretty much got it dialled in. I remember the early days when “taking an Uber” was a weird mysterious thing. Now it is, for me, the most normal thing in the world. I’ve had one mediocre experience: I had a 60 mile one-way trip from an airport and multiple drivers accepted and then cancelled. I went and talk to one of the taxis at the taxi stand and they were asking double what Uber was… so I waited another 15 minutes or so and found a driver. Otherwise it’s been a completely satisfying experience.

Airbnb has definitely gone the opposite way. My first Airbnb experience involved getting woken up by the daughter of the family that lived downstairs asking me if I wanted breakfast for 5€. I was getting whole apartments for 30€/night. Now it’s just as expensive as regular hotels, half of them expect you to wash all of the linen before you leave, and it’s totally unpredictable what you’re going to get. I just book with Hilton instead. There’s free bottled water and snacks waiting for me when I get there, it’s a pretty consistent experience, and free good breakfast at most of them.

scarface_742• 1 year ago

Uber is a lot better than AirBnb. I use an app and the person picks me up and drops me off. If the driver cancels I automatically get another one scheduled, they don’t check my ratings or care if I have never used an Uber before, don’t have to worry about the Uber not picking me up because of the color of my skin.

The AirBnb may be illegal, there is no consistency with how you get in and you can’t even find out the address until after you reserve. Hidden fees, weird policies, you never know what you are going to get or have any recourse if they cancel on you

callc• 1 year ago

I’m curious, what has made Uber feel safe for you in terms of racism?

And also did you have a problem with AirBnB based on skin color?

futurecat• 1 year ago

Reading this article felt like reading an ad.

bsimpson7• 1 year ago

Which was extra weird since it's behind a paywall.

whynotminot• 1 year ago

Really? Because it’s kind of mocking them the whole time

ethbr12• 1 year ago

The irony is the CEO probably can't tell it's mocking him.

What's the first sign of a midlife crisis?

That someone thinks a new car will turn them into a not-asshole.

He wanted to bust the company he’d cofounded out of its pigeonhole of short-term home rentals. Amazon, he was fond of pointing out, was first an online bookstore before it became the everything store.
“I was basically going from room to room just pouring out this stream-of-consciousness manifesto, like Jack Kerouac writing On the Road,” he says
Chesky hopes to build the ultimate agent, a super-concierge who starts off handling customer service and eventually knows you well enough to plan your travel and maybe the rest of your life.
“Brian’s been badly underrated as a tech CEO,” Altman says of his friend. “He's not usually mentioned in the same breath as Larry Page or Bill Gates, but I think he is on a path to build as big of a company.”
“Steve Jobs, to me, is like Michelangelo or da Vinci,” he says. Despite never meeting Jobs, “I feel like I know him deeply, professionally, in a way that few people ever did, in a way that you only possibly could by starting a tech company as a creative person and going on a rocket ship,”
“[AirBnB experiences] was like our Newton,” says Chesky, referring to Apple’s handheld device that predated the iPhone.

Yeah... somehow I don't think that guy understands subtlety or nuance. What a douche.

digianarchist6• 1 year ago

There's a critical element there. I'm very skeptical they can pull off being a luxury Groupon.

thinkingemote• 1 year ago

It was triggered by press release from them possibly embargoed so they could prepare the article on time. So it's not really an ad but driven by promotion. Without the PR there would be no article.

The PR pack contain actual ad for the company announcing API platform etc. this was submitted to HN at the same time by a few different people.

Most press just replicate whatever is in a press release from a company but some, better, publishers use it to write an article.

nithril3• 1 year ago

Same feeling, so much words and story telling just for that.

mmmBacon3• 1 year ago

Basic problem with Airbnb is that you’re dealing with small proprietors and the quality and value can be pretty inconsistent. Airbnb has relied on reviews to enforce this but what I’ve found is that “hosts” usually wait to file a review of me as a guest until I file my review. So there’s a disincentive to leave a mixed review.

Additionally there’s a creep factor in the number of cameras on the property. Hotels have lots of cameras but you don’t get the same sense that you’re being policed. I realize some of this is necessary but it can still be off-putting; usually everyone in the rental comments on the cameras.

Airbnb could normalize the value by enforcing standards and capping certain unreasonable charges in particular cleaning fees. A uniform cancellation policy would also help.

Additionally there are no rewards for booking Airbnb and no perks at all for repeat customers.

I’ve moved from Airbnb to Marriot and I get 4pm late check out, upgrades to suites, free breakfast, priority booking etc… and I don’t have to take the garbage out, bundle up sheets, do the dishes, etc…

nailer2• 1 year ago

I’ve found is that “hosts” usually wait to file a review of me as a guest until I file my review.

Oh, I thought they did a double unlock. I.e. waiting for both reviews to be finished before publishing either.

milkshakes2• 1 year ago

that is exactly what they do

mmmBacon3• 1 year ago

Maybe they do now. I have only left 2 mixed reviews. One when the place they rented was not the one showed in photos. The people weren’t allowed to rent in their building and this was not something that was advertised. This meant none of the building’s amenities were available to us despite being advertised. I ended up getting dinged somehow. I thought maybe they could see the review by a 2nd account or something. Could be wrong.

enjo• 1 year ago

As an occasional host we always wait until the guest writes a review. Our goal is to basically never have a guest write a review so we don't write them hoping they just forget. If we write one they get an email telling them that we did and really pushing them to review.

Our place is all five star reviews and there is very little benefit for further five star reviews. So it's kind of all risk for us at this point when someone does review.

apwell233• 1 year ago

what I’ve found is that “hosts” usually wait to file a review of me as a guest until I file my review. So there’s a disincentive to leave a mixed review.

yea i usually refrain from bad reviews because i might want to go stay with them in future.

bcoates5• 1 year ago

As someone who doesn't have whatever lead poisoning makes people post reviews on yelp the review system is worse than useless.

I'm not gonna leave a mixed or negative review because snitches get stitches and I can't imagine anyone else reviewing has any less pathological incentives.

soulofmischief2• 1 year ago

Some of us genuinely want to make the world a better place, and want to reward good hosts and publicly call out bad ones.

bsimpson7• 1 year ago

There are actually some really interesting problems to solve there:

It's now widely understood that online reviews can have a large impact on the success of a small business.

- What rating do you leave if you have a disappointing service from a really kind proprietor (like if the best humans make you the worst food)?

- Are we entering a world where there will be ramifications for the reviews you give? Will a restaurant be less likely to seat you if you left a middling review? As more places require you to identify with a phone number before you can be seated, will you receive worse service if you left a disappointing review or tip? It feels like reputation is about to flow in both directions.

- How do you avoid rating inflation when people who have bad experiences are reluctant to write about them?

And there are a bunch of little bugs in the current rating ecosystem:

- Culture impacts a rating. Americans are conditioned to start from 5 and deduct stars, which makes it harder to identify truly great places. Contrast this with Japan, where 3.5 stars is a really good rating, because Japanese people start from the median.

- If a place has thousands of reviews and a really high score, they're probably bribing people to rate them.

- How do you protect against spam? That includes reviews being bought from call centers, but also shitposts from people who don't like that something exists, or the way its staff behaves outside work.

- If people who eat fast food like a fast food place, it could have a better rating than an objectively better place that caters to more discerning clientele. How do you communicate that the people leaving reviews are/aren't representative of your tastes?

And as you alluded to, writing reviews (and HN comments) takes time that would often be better spent doing other things. What incentives do people have to take the time to leave a useful review? Can we find a way to make the process less burdensome?

twelve402• 1 year ago

snitches get stitches

i think on Google Maps they can't rate you back (maybe on Booking too?), so depends on the service. I don't review much anyway, but about a couple of times a year I run into a pretty amazing place that I can't help but compliment, and once in a blue moon a really crappy place that really upsets me so I feel like sharing that too. I see absolutely nothing pathological about that.

mmmBacon3• 1 year ago

In the 2 mixed reviews the hosts substantially misrepresented the property and the legality of their listing impacting the quality of our stay and the value we were receiving.

As someone that has a backbone and isn’t afraid of the consequences of reporting when I get ripped off, I find mixed reviews to be valuable.

dreamcompiler3• 1 year ago

Airbnb made the same mistake Google did: They screwed up their core service. I used to be a steady ABB customer but now hotels are almost always cheaper, offer better service, and are more predictable.

Not to mention that hotel websites are typically easier to navigate and contain a lot less React-sludge that makes every click take forever to respond.

cobertos3• 1 year ago

I had this experience too. Booked on AirBnb with someone who was about the same price as the hotels. Turns out the hosts were just employees of some letting company. They wanted photo ID, a deposit, and sign a second contract in a _separate website_, which I declined. Contacting AirBnb support they said this was fully allowed and I should have read the description harder. I did get a full refund but was told it was only because it was "my first time" and I've never had other issues.

I'm glad I turned around and booked with a hotel. It was very personable, good value, and better than what I would've gotten for the same price on AirBnb for that city.

bsimpson7• 1 year ago

There are too many shady middlemen in the vacation rentals space. I refuse to rent any place that has a separate lease, but they're no longer unheard of.

To some degree, I understand the businessification of rentals - it's uncomfortable for both parties if you're trying to get a grandma to meet you to exchange keys after a late flight. But also, that person-to-person charm is a big part of why people chose Airbnbs in the first place. If it's just an IKEA flip of an old apartment, why bother?

I've actually noticed that my taste in interior design has been impacted. The "pastel and sculpted veneer" aesthetic that took over Airbnb, "modern" coffee shops, and supposedly adult furniture brands like West Elm disgusts me now. I suspect it would have appealed to me if it hadn't been badly copied with shitty materials so many times. Now, I associate it with hollow experiences, poor craftsmanship, and attempts to get me to pay more for a "quality" I won't receive.

vishalontheline• 1 year ago

What city was this booking for?

octo888• 1 year ago

They wanted photo ID, a deposit, and sign a second contract in a _separate website_

Yup my average airbnb experience in eg Spain is: dealing with an agent, asked to submit all my personal data to some random third party, all other communication done via WhatsApp, and often my number is given to third parties without my consent who spam me with things like offers of experiences/day trips etc

mykowebhn• 1 year ago

Just note that in a lot of countries, like Spain, the rental or hotel establishments are required by law to collect a lot of your information. It feels totally intrusive, but it's the law unfortunately.

wnc31415• 1 year ago

any chance this was the "sonder" brand? They have weirdly invasive identity requirements.

Gigachad• 1 year ago

Shouldn’t it expected that a hotel would be able to provide a better service considering they are doing it in bulk and specialise in it. Vs a bunch of individual untrained hosts.

Seems more like Airbnb ran out of money to burn and hotels lifted their game.

manwe150• 1 year ago

In corporate lingo, I think their “core business” is any vacation rental? Partnering with hotels could perhaps have been a viable path for them to grow that and still fit with their business acumen. But I use other platforms for that service now.

riffraff2• 1 year ago

I think it's mostly the fact that AirBnB stopped being outside the law. Once municipalities started regulating them, hosts started paying taxes etc.. they lost the price edge.

BiteCode_dev2• 1 year ago

No, AirBnB just became much more expensive. And it's disguised as processing fees, cleaning fees, etc.

So if I ever take the risk of getting an Airbnb instead of a hotel, then I know the next time I book I'll pay cash directly with the host because it will be that much cheaper.

It's like uber: the bait and switch to a service that becomes less good and more expensive is costing them because the competition survived the first wave.

Also, the regulations caught up with them.

Basically, they wanted to win by scummy means, like a lot of American startup that calls doing illegal or immoral stuff "growth hacks".

Still worked well, they are a leader, but not enough to kill the game, and now they have to fight.

Good.

fasthands93• 1 year ago

I disagree. In the long run there was never a way for individual hosts to compete with hotels on price. Hotels have economy of scale so of course they are going to be better bang for the buck in places where both are options.

I think airbnb is still the better option in many situations - such as when you are willing to pay a premium to be in nature or you going on vacation with 6+ people.

I don't really see how better tech would ever prevent this outcome. Perhaps this disappointing in terms of continual growth, but I think it was inevitable and still provides a good path for the company to be uniquely useful.

lotsofpulp2• 1 year ago

there was never a way for individual hosts to compete with hotels on price.

That way was to skirt laws around obtaining hotel permits and zoning and paying all the relevant hotel taxes and business insurance.

darkerside• 1 year ago

The only way to compete against the economy of scale was the original thesis of AirBnB. People were renting out their primary homes to bring in an extra stream of income. It was never going to be mainstream profitable to buy a normal apartment and rent it out on AirBnB.

ricardobeat4• 1 year ago

They shouldn’t be competing. Renting out space on AirBnB was supposed to be an occasional thing and not a full time business.

bgnn2• 1 year ago

Here in Europe there are a lot of local websites for this kind of group accomodations in nature etc. and often the hosts there are much much more approachable and friendly, plus it's often cheaper than Airbnb.

One big example is Gites de France [1] with 55k listings, which is a 70 year old guide. Most of these aren't anywhere else. It doesn't make sense to look elsewhere when travelling in France. Other countries often have something similar, maybe in a smaller scale. For example there are holiday homes websites in the Netherlands, with close to 1000 listings [2].

[1] https://www.gites-de-france.com/en [2] https://www.vakantieadressen.nl/

lm28469• 1 year ago

I disagree. In the long run there was never a way for individual hosts to compete with hotels on price. Hotels have economy of scale so of course they are going to be better bang for the buck in places where both are options.

Reminder that airbnb was supposed to be about renting your place when you were out of town, not buying 5 buildings to become an hotel chain yourself...

At least hotels don't ask you to clean the dishes, switch of the fridge and do the laundry before you leave

gsf_emergency• 1 year ago

same mistake Google did

This made me realize that their original strategy was to extract the promise from the fat long tail of their respective supply ("unique experience" for abnb, "relevant search results" for goog). But then the Septembers are apt to become eternal if you can't keep it at a level manageable by humans, like a dang-or-2

From TFA

I want to be a luchador!” he tells me, then immediately regrets it.

(dang is probably quite great at minimizing regrets a la Jeff, the insta ones most of all)

Leave it to the subconscious to highlight what matters.

SwtCyber3• 1 year ago

Between loyalty programs, clearer pricing, and just not having to stress about cleaning rules or weird checkout times, they’ve quietly caught up while Airbnb got distracted

digianarchist6• 1 year ago

I lived next to an AirBnB in Toronto, guests partying until 4am on a Wednesday.

Owner of the unit did nothing and as did AirBnB.

Luckily it was only a few nights a year - there's no mechanism to eject a guest like this. They create new accounts if they are banned from the platform.

spinarrets3• 1 year ago

The mechanism is calling the cops, and letting the cops know it's an Airbnb. Then contacting Airbnb letting them know you've filed a police report.

Airbnb doesn't give a shit about you (and frankly, neither do the cops), but the cops and Airbnb don't want to tussle with one another.

digianarchist6• 1 year ago

TPD don't respond to noise complaints.

hylaride• 1 year ago

Hilariously, I had the opposite experience; the Airbnb host was the one that partied when it wasn't booked.

Either way our condo started enforcing a rule that was long on the books that owners couldn't rent out their unites for less than 3 months. It was the bedbugs that did it.

monster_truck2• 1 year ago

Have had some insanely bad experiences with AirBNB and swore them off forever.

People listing mcmansions they cant sell in a state of disrepair, lies about amenities and internet. Had to relocate several people repeatedly in the middle of the pandemic lockdown and it took months for the refunds to process.

Had another host try to pressure me into a cash deal and then claim damages to extract fees when I turned it down. After supplying their text messages and proof that the place was fine I had to wait 18 months for a refund and was locked out of renting a safer place.

I can't imagine trusting them for anything else. I now exclusively use craigslist and other sites that allow you to directly deal with property owners and have been really impressed.

tdeck• 1 year ago

I now exclusively use craigslist and other sites that allow you to directly deal with property owners

You rent vacation rentals on Craigslist? That's the first I have heard of this even being a thing.

bogdan• 1 year ago

I’ve had my share of bad Airbnb hosts too, not as bad as yours, but still enough to ruin a holiday and make me hesitant to use them again.

The bit that I should have expected but didn't was how strongly they side with the hosts in case of disputes. In hindsight, of course they do; the hosts are their money makers, while I'm booking them only a few times a year.

I stopped using Airbnb and closed my account. Hotels are fine, and never had any major issues.

hn_throwaway_992• 1 year ago

I now exclusively use craigslist and other sites that allow you to directly deal with property owners and have been really impressed.

So apparently you have found the ~10% or so of craigslist short term rental listings that aren't outright scams?

monster_truck2• 1 year ago

I'm not sure how anyone is getting scammed in a way that is unique to renting vacation homes, care to elaborate?

Everything was handled by local realtors and felt substantially more legitimate than AirBNB. You're really only going to find overpriced garbage on there. The places I have been renting are booked >2 years in advance. We often encounter other families on the beaches/lakes that have been booking the same month for a decade+!

speedbird• 1 year ago

Half the airbnbs I try to book these days turn out to be resellers of un booked hotel rooms. Try to book, get a message from “host” just checking availability… silence for three days then sorry, not free … it’s a deeply flawed experience and Airbnb need to get a lot better at policing their platform

twelve402• 1 year ago

maybe they should admit they are not special anymore and expand into other large markets like hotels? I don't even care anymore, I just use Google Maps or Booking, whether it's a "property" on Booking or a hotel, each one has it's pros and cons, I choose whatever feels right at the moment from what seems to be an exhaustive list of both. Properties can be more fun and better for larger groups, hotels are cleaned and don't have annoying "house rules" like washing the dishes etc, or chasing the owner if the lock doesn't work. I don't know how many travelers still stick exclusively to properties anymore.

bcoates5• 1 year ago

A nugget in this that seemed significant:

Quote

“I don’t know if I want to call it a social network, because of the stigma associated with it,” says Ari Balogh, Airbnb’s CTO. So they employ a fuzzier term. “We think of it as a connection platform,” he says. “You’re going to see us build a lot more stuff on top of it, although we’re not an advertising system, thank goodness.” (My own observation is that any for-profit company that can host advertising will, but whatever.)

End quote

Launching a communications tool in 2025 that isn't one of the two overly trod spaces (the advertising-hyperengagement loop of instagram, etc. or the people-you-already-know of whatsapp) is a genuine moonshot in a way that "what if airbnb but for manicures" isn't, and it's something that an incumbent like Airbnb could do that would be impractical for anyone else.

aibrother2• 1 year ago

"Airbnb for X" startup ideas, now done by Airbnb lol

Spooky23• 1 year ago

Perhaps they can use AI to create bespoke services?

xyst• 1 year ago

Explains why ABB recruiters have been filling my inbox with invites to interview.

Note they have a fucking ridiculous interview process of at least _6 rounds_. Absolutely bonkers.

I was tempted to go for it but fortunately have many other companies in my pipeline with much saner interview processes.

Good luck to whoever gets those positions. Seems they pay quite well, but the question is whether ABB push to expand will pay off and become self sustaining.

hansvm3• 1 year ago

It looks like senior roles top out at $220k and staff at $250k, with another $10k or so in indirect financial benefits (401k matching, ESPP, etc). The pay is certainly enough to be well-off, but it's on par with what any random startup offers, so for the sort of person likely to qualify for an ABB position I'm not sure cash would be the motivating factor for choosing them over the other options.

msarvar2• 1 year ago

where are you getting that info? ABB total comp per levels.fyi 449K for senior and 626 for staff. Their compensation is pretty competitive. I don't know any startup that offers that much that is also liquid comp.

BrenBarn2• 1 year ago

In addition to stuff people are saying about AirBnB reviews in other comments, as far as I can tell there is no way to leave a review or otherwise provide public feedback in cases where the host cancels the booking before you get there. This seems to grossly incentivize scamming.

I reserved an AirBnB months ahead of time to see the eclipse in Dallas last year, and the host canceled it the day before I was to arrive, with no communication (even when I tried to message them). I got a refund, but that's pretty cold comfort. Without any disincentive to do this, it's pretty easy for hosts to screw people over.

financypants• 1 year ago

I believe there is a penalty for the host

RHSeeger• 1 year ago

Its worth noting that hotels do this kind of thing, too; just rarer, for bigger events. Its specifically been known to happen for things like Taylor Swift concerts, etc.

megablast2• 1 year ago

That is not true. You can rate them on booking.com or on google or tripadvisor.

csomar2• 1 year ago

They added a penalty a while ago. So it is very unlikely for hosts to do that now.

digianarchist6• 1 year ago

I went to Dublin in March and had two places cancel before we got the third.

I find it hard to believe those places paid any penalty and if they did it’s not enough.

askl• 1 year ago

Had this happen a few times with booking.com too. With the difference that booking offered a alternative accommodation and if that one was more expensive, the host who cancelled my booking has to pay for the difference.

I mostly stopped using Airbnb. The same listings often appear in other sites too and those usually have less bad UX for search and booking.

BrenBarn2• 1 year ago

Yeah, that's my experience with booking and even with hotels in general. Much more customer-friendly.

us0r• 1 year ago

it use to say something along the lines of "host canceled reservation less then xx time" in the reviews. did they remove that?

jajko3• 1 year ago

Also host can't offer that date for another guest (at least it used to be like that). In case of cancelling 1 day prior then they either have a serious issue or another booking so thats not so punishing.

It may also affect internal ranking order by which they show properties to people, but who knows whats implemented internally right now, and what will be in place in 3 months.

MyPasswordSucks9• 1 year ago

In this case it wouldn't really matter. It's fine for weeding out exceptionally-chaotic hosts, but hosts who rug-pull on a once-in-a-lifetime event like the eclipse (whether to re-rent for higher prices or because they forgot to take the listing down and were planning on using the facility themselves) aren't affected.

Animats• 1 year ago

The "Experiences" thing sounds like Groupon. What killed Groupon was that Groupon wanted too big a cut, and the service providers dropped out. This trick only works if you reach oligopoly levels, so providers have to sign up or go broke. AirBnB is there in short-stay housing. Doordash/Uber are there in food delivery. Doordash/Lyft are there in gig rides, but might not survive Waymo. Amazon is there in e-commerce, but it took decades.

Can AirBnB find a second niche they can start to take over?

presentation• 1 year ago

Also there are already other products like that, like Viator and Klook. I wish companies like Airbnb didn't feel the need to conquer everything all the time. It already is useful as it is.

sazor• 1 year ago

The appeal and selling point of Airbnb experiences was local guides and small groups compared to Viator with more traditional group tours. In my experience it was quite good in Europe at the beginning. But now prices are just too high to justify, like 200+ euros for few hours walking tour.

hakfoo• 1 year ago

I had always heard what killed Groupon was the bad economics.

The "loss leader" concept is Business 101, and Groupon was presented to customers as a gallery of loss leaders they can shop.

Actually delivering a good loss leader is hard. Design the offer wrong, and people don't attach properly-- they either don't load up their cart with additional, higher-margin items, or they don't return for future full-price services. I suspect Groupon didn't help-- if they provided consulting, it was probably to steer the merchants to give the store away to make Groupon look compelling regardless of bankrupting the merchant.

Over time, a lot of industries pulled away, either because they personally ran the numbers or simply saw their peers trying it and losing their shirt. The offers eventually retreated to what could survive in the cost structure: stuff like classes (near-zero marginal cost per attendee) rather than food or personal services with significant cost of goods or labour.

blitzar2• 1 year ago

They bringing a large pool of customers who will only ever pay "loss leading" prices. The ultimate problem with Groupon is their customers.

jrowen3• 1 year ago

Just seeing the number of different ways people have typed the name in this thread reminds me that "Airbnb" has got to be the ugliest, most confusing, and least riffable name of any startup to achieve unicorn status. I would guess it has cost them something.

bsimpson7• 1 year ago

I'm surprised they're not launching with more coverage. I just spot-checked what was available in NYC - it's a handful of unappealing tours. Some categories, like massage, are totally empty.

Are they abandoning NYC as a market since rentals are restricted there, or did they just not put enough effort into recruiting before launch?

blinded• 1 year ago

Dude if you want to find a nice spot in the woods on the river, secluded, in the middle of no where Airbnb, hipcamp, or camping are your only options.

luisgvv• 1 year ago

Agree, Airbnb blows in crowded areas but it's nice in small towns

levocardia• 1 year ago

Maybe I'm in the minority but I've generally had very good -- or at least, "good as I expected" -- experiences at AirBnbs, even recently. Sometimes I've stayed with rich friends who book nice places, and the experience is, as expected, very nice. Many other times I have stayed at bottom-of-the-barrel places, which were, as expected, bottom of the barrel flophouses. But tolerably so, and true to the advertisement (funny how they all have that exact same fake black leather futon though).

People say hotels are as cheap, but they never have the same amenities, and the location in town is often worse. An AirBnb with a kitchen is essentially $20-30 cheaper per day than a hotel without one. Add to that laundry, more privacy, and other perks and it's not really a fair comparison. It does seem like there are more hotel resellers and leasing companies using it as a stopgap between tenants, which I understand, but hate.

I get why they want to be an "everything app" (rich people have more money to spend on "experiences"), but other commenters are spot-on regarding the dangers of taking their eye off the ball. Seems like a better use of company attention would be to really boost and reward the genuine hosts that put their heart into it, and at least put in a modest amount of friction to slow down the corporate resellers with barebones apartments in half-remodeled buildings.

lacker• 1 year ago

Yeah, I've had pretty great experiences with Airbnbs. I'm usually traveling with kids, hotel rooms are small, it's really nice to have a kitchen with kids, and a lot of airbnbs have amenities that the kids like.

jajko3• 1 year ago

Hotels try to milk parents with kids and either force you to take basically another booking, or have few 2-bedroom (or 1 bedroom and living room = parental bedroom) ones, often for almost double the price. Most were designed in another era, and it shows - booked rooms are basically just caves for sleeping.

We only use such if there are no other options in given area or if we want food prepared (this quickly becomes another chore with small kids).

I've never seen a well rated airbnb place with many reviews being bad. They may not be stellar in some aspect, ie small maintenance may be lacking but otherwise having a full kitchen with wash machine is pretty amazing for any type of trip, and one has a wide variety of locations and prices. Also it allows you to experience the place a bit more, compared to hyper sterile and uniform hotel experiences.

Lets not forget airbnbs would never become a thing if they werent cheaper than hotels (or at least provided much better experience at similar price).

jrowen3• 1 year ago

I think the core value prop of Airbnb is (or should be) to provide a different experience than a hotel. It may have been "cheaper than a hotel" at one point and idk what the numbers are on how people are using it but in my experience it excels for larger groups or for people just looking for a more house-like experience than a hotel. Being able to stay in a nice house with a bunch of friends in any city is an amazing thing they made a lot more accessible.

Doesn't really make a lot of sense to me to just shop on price and then compare the experience to booking a hotel room, it's totally different.

ghaff11• 1 year ago

Which has been VRBO to a large degree. Not sure how common that is for Airbnb as a use case. A lot of what I see is looking for a cheaper room.

zacharycohn• 1 year ago

I think it gets complicated when there's a long, long list of chores you have to do when you leave.

At the you're paying more than a hotel and you have to spend 2 hours deep cleaning the place... That's when you start to really reconsider.

ramesh31• 1 year ago

They've gotten much much better in the last 5 years. After all the small time would-be "empire builders" who overcharged for shoddy units and abused residential real estate laws got cleaned out of the system, it seems like what's left is a decent middle ground of professional operators running full time rental units, with a few of the original style unique experiences left here and there. The standards have gone way up, and it's generally better than a hotel at the same price point again, which it was absolutely not for most of 2015-2020ish.

fireflash38• 1 year ago

Depending on the location you get a bunch of people basically who own a vacation home they get priority to use and rent out the rest of the time. Which is honestly rather nice for both the guests and the hosts.

That was my preferred experience too - well maintained and lived in just enough to make sense. Some places do cheap out on "perks" that seem there only to boost themselves in rankings/filters, but otherwise been a pleasant experience.

sheepscreek• 1 year ago

Chesky is having a Jobs moment, when Apple went from making Computers to smartphones and much much more. It didn’t happen in a day though. More importantly, by that time, Jobs had already built Next from the ground up, and supported and funded the growth of Pixar into an animation powerhouse. He had all the additional experience shaping his perception on what people want and how people will react to something.

I think Airbnb will have a branding issue. By transitioning from rentals to offering a wide range of services, they might dilute their brand before people have the chance to fully embrace and experience the new offerings.

Perhaps they should reinvent themselves as a platform that manages travel and stays, emphasizing that their “airbnb certified experience” includes access to specific facilities and guarantees. This way, users can choose from other service providers in their marketplace with their own standards. That way, expanding to more services over time would seem like an organic expansion.

Essentially, Airbnb could transition from managing services to a marketplace model that also hosts managed services and other providers. However, by maintaining a focus on “stays” or “travels” and slowly adding more ancillary services would prevent dilution before their metamorphosis is complete.

dmurray• 1 year ago

There will be a rebranding in the next ten years. Airbnb will get a slightly more blocky or rounded version of the same logo and ads everywhere announcing how "Airbnb is now Air".

I can't tell who owns air.com, but the website it hosts is a tiny landing page from someone who would obviously sell.

The rebranding will be met by a slew of astonished articles asking "they spent how much?" and almost as many apparently-thoughtful midwit counterpoints saying no, it looks obvious in hindsight, but it took real marketing genius to conceive of this in advance.

plorkyeran• 1 year ago

I don't even really understand the concept of comparing AirBnB prices to hotel prices? Unless you're literally just looking for the cheapest place to safely spend the night with zero considerations beyond that they just aren't the same product. Staying in an apartment or house and staying in a hotel are vastly different experiences.

jterrys• 1 year ago

There's also...apartment hotels!

Want hotel quality and safety with apartment perks? Just go to an apartment hotel! It costs more than a hotel/AirBnB but you're also not at the whims of random hit-or-miss listings and shady shit. And they clean your room if you want them to!

megablast2• 1 year ago

What a ridiculous comment. Along the lines of you can't compare iphone and android phones.

Most people just want somewhere to stay while they visit a city or relatives or an event.

Even if you want a kitchen many hotels offer some basic facilities.

In this way they are perfectly comparable.

xivzgrev• 1 year ago

From a utility perspective not really. You need a safe comfortable place to sleep, a clean bathroom, maybe a TV, some space for your stuff and that’s basically it.

The experience is OUT THERE, not where you are staying.

So yea I’m looking for the cheapest place that meets the bar. Sometimes it’s Airbnb but usually it’s a hotel.

freddie_mercury3• 1 year ago

I think the people who say hotels are better than AirBnb aren't traveling with kids.

Having an actual kitchen when you travel with kids is great. Having actual separate bedrooms so we don't have to go to sleep at 8pm when the kids go to sleep is great. Being able to do laundry without tracking down a laundromat or pay exorbitant hotel prices is great. Having a living room or similar area with at least a few square metres of floor space where kids can sprawl is great.

analog31• 1 year ago

Indeed, hell is being cooped up in a hotel with kids -- for the kids, the parents, the rest of the occupants, and the staff.

I think this is a huge factor in why my family always camped when I was a kid.

And to be frank, I don't like being cooped up in a hotel either.

chii• 1 year ago

For the same price, airbnb usually provides more than hotels (but with higher variation in quality).

Hotels tend to be pretty consistently good when it is over a certain price point, and at any higher price point, all you get is better views/location (and may be some amenities such as gym or pool) - aka, quality caps out and just becomes expensive.

Airbnb prices are quite correlated to quality. High priced airbnb (for example, a holiday lodge) can be _very_ good for the price. But airbnb is a sort of buyers beware type deal.

taneliv• 1 year ago

Yes, yes, yes, and yes. If the kids are not toddlers any more, booking a place where you share the apartment/house with the host (or maybe other travelers) can also be a great experience.

I mean, it's an adventure, and those can also go poorly, but our experiences have been just excellent. And at those bottom-of-the-barrel prices mentioned earlier.

Definitely not something that hotels offer.

cameldrv3• 1 year ago

There are plenty of hotels where you can get multiple rooms and a washing machine. When traveling with kids, one big advantage of hotels is predictability.

The last thing I want to do when I'm pulling in after a long flight an hour past the kids' bedtime is to deal with potentially dealbreaking problems with the place. In a hotel, they generally have maintenance on staff and extra rooms to switch into in case of problems. Generally with Airbnb, the staff is 30 minutes away and is annoyed that you've called them. Most of the time, everything is fine, but there can be snafus with locks, plumbing, cleanliness, etc, and kids make these more complicated. This is all not to mention being asked to strip beds, take out trash, etc, after you've paid thousands of dollars, including cleaning fees for the place.

hans0l074• 1 year ago

I can't put a finger on it, but I have never used AirBnB, so I probably do not know what I am missing. I have kids now, and when we move around within the EU, I have always found the hotel experience predictable and reliable (and like many say here, perhaps more expensive, though I don't know by how much). Our daily life at home/base camp is filled with chores - laundry, cooking, cleaning etc. So going and staying at a hotel with good amenities and services is a welcome change. Nice breakfast every day, in-room service, laundry on-demand etc. Of course there is a price tag, though our family has found it quite affordable with a regular EU software paycheck. Also, my experience does not extend for stays beyond a week. Anything longer would demand an apartment, for sure.

dspillett5• 1 year ago

aren't traveling with kids

Just as much as many parents think having had kids is one of the proudest decisions (or happiest accidents) they have made, I think not having them is one of my best decisions, travelling is one of my many reasons for that, and I find the assumption from some parents that we should bend around their choice is a little presumptuous.

Furthermore, ignoring various other definitions of better, hotels are sometimes better value (or, at least, just less expensive) then AirBnBs these days, unless you are lucky, and inexpensive/value-for-money seems to be a very important factor for parents that I know.

Having said that I still use AirBnB sometimes, it just certainly isn't my only/preferred option as it was for a time.

electric_muse• 1 year ago

Perhaps the difference is that you’ve been fortunate enough to never need Airbnb support to help you on something serious.

When things go well, it’s amazing. When things go poorly, you realize how anti-guest the policies and support team behave.

That’s when it changed for me. I realized how pro-host, anti-guest they are. Hotels generally seem to care when something goes wrong. Airbnb support behaves like you have inconvenienced them by raising the issue.

ghaff11• 1 year ago

There's a lot of truth in that.

Normally, I never use a kitchen when traveling. When with GF, she does often like eggs in the morning though. So if there isn't a hotel/inn breaffast that can sometimes be useful.

I agree with respect to circumstances where you want houses or at least multi-room apartments though. Hotels aren't mostly a good fit for that although suite hotels sometimes have a couple of bedrooms.

gwbas1c• 1 year ago

I have three kids. We prefer to stay in hotels with suites where the kids can sleep in a separate room. I prefer the fact that they have on-site staff. All hotels that we've stayed in for the past few years include a breakfast buffet.

The kids generally prefer hotels because they have pools.

We've found plenty of professionally run "resorts" where the space is like a small apartment, with a full kitchen and multiple bedrooms. These tend to be right in ski areas where we could walk to the lift if we were staying during the ski season. We did stay in one that was AirBNB-like because it was privately owned but the ski area handled the reservation and any issues that came up while we were there.

HelloMcFly• 1 year ago

My decision tree is simple:

- If I need a kitchen? AirBnB

- Am I staying somewhere with low population density for more than a couple of nights? AirBnb

- Am I staying somewhere with low population density for a couple of nights or less? Motel or camping

- Everywhere else: Hotel

wdb• 1 year ago

Sounds like you are looking for the hotel apartments. I stayed in plenty of those and they are good deal, you get kitchen, plenty of space. Think it was 100GBP/night and with the company discount it went down to 75GBP/month

bgarbiak• 1 year ago

Strange. As a father of two I prefer hotels over AirBnB. Laundry could be an issue, yes, but not having a kitchen is actually a feature for me. Someone else taking care of feeding the little ones is exactly what hotels are for

no-cigar• 1 year ago

I have 2 kids and I kinda agree but I now stay with hotels with kitchens. I have not stayed at Airbnb since they ruined me and my family’s stay during my wedding. The flat we had didn’t have a working toilet and they refused to find us a new place. They just offered a refund (only if the host confirmed toilet can’t be fixed)

And this is after I explained it’s my wedding!!

Never again.

MrSkelter• 1 year ago

Hotel suites offer everything you mention.

At hotels you also don’t have to worry about spy cameras, upset neighbors and questionable legality.

I did use AirBnB years ago with my family and it was great. However the quality tends to reflect the country. I have had wonderful experiences in Northern Europe and the worst in San Francisco.

csomar2• 1 year ago

It is really location specific. For some locations, the hotel experience is better/cheaper and hotels (serviced apartments) can have kitchens/privacy.

The problem is not much of the hotel/apartment but rather the platform. AirBnb manipulates search results, prices and UX to squeeze harder. It now wants to up sell "experiences" that it puts in your face every-time you open the app. It is just exhausting as the rest of everything on the internet that is taking the same path.

jksflkjl3jk32• 1 year ago

I think we're just the silent majority.

I've been a digital nomad for the last 9 years. Airbnb is a huge reason why my experience has been so great. How else can I show up in a city in a new country , spend 5 minutes the day before I arrive, and end up with a nice furnished apartment in a great location for a week's stay?

hansmayer3• 1 year ago

Oh, how lovely it is so convenient for you, e.g. the "silent majority" while the residents of those cities foot the direct and indirect bill from reduced availability of the real-estate and the ever-increasing costs.

bambax4• 1 year ago

I used to like Airbnb. It's not better or cheaper than hotels, but when travelling with kids it makes a big difference.

Until I had a bad experience, that turned horrible. I saw a side of the company that made me think "never again".

I rented a place from a "superhost" that looked very nice on paper. It was in fact very bad. Everything in the description was misleading, photos were doctored to look nice, "windows" opened to a wall on the next building two feet away, there was mold everywhere, the shower flowed into the bedroom, etc.

At this point it wasn't the end of the world; I stayed two nights and went home. Then I wrote a bad review. It was simply descriptive and contained no harsh language of any kind.

The review was immediately taken down; I asked why, and received a barrage of emails from Airbnb (some automated, some maybe not) saying that they were very sorry, they understood this wasn't the outcome I expected, but they couldn't publish it.

Turns out, Airbnb will go to extreme lengths to protect their hosts, because they are much more valuable to the company than one random customer.

But if the reviews are fake or filtered, then I can't trust the platform.

I went back to booking.com; they now have properties in addition to hotels, and are much more professional.

earnestinger• 1 year ago

Booking also gives you the final price in search results.

graemep• 1 year ago

Not as bad as my worst airBNB experience.

Everything from rats to exposed wiring next to a shower!

Review got removed. Full story here: https://pietersz.co.uk/2017/02/airbnb-block-bad-reviews

sam-cop-vimes• 1 year ago

Almost every Airbnb I've stayed over the past few years has been subpar compared to how it is advertised. The most recent one in Malaysia had cockroaches in the kitchen. Airbnb is now the last resort after I've exhausted staying in hotels.

At this point, I stay away from serviced apartments altogether. At least with a hotel you can go to reception and demand they fix your issue.

crab_galaxy• 1 year ago

Same experience here. It was shocking how bad Airbnb’s customer service was. When 95% of the stays are good it doesn’t matter but that one bad stay soured me on the company entirely

cryptonym• 1 year ago

I booked one with swimming pool, advertising enough room for 6 person.

View was amazing, as advertised. The bed in the living room was inflatable and deflated over night. Only three forks in kitchen drawer. Convoluted scheme to enter the building and room cause they want to hide the fact it's an Airbnb as it's not really allowed in that building. Swimming pool was on maintenance since 2 months.

Airbnb couldn't care less, basically I was being annoying to them. They didn't publish my honest review.

Sure having a kitchen and a comfy place to rest is nice, since that experience I'm very reluctant to take again that risk, especially with kids.

bwfan1233• 1 year ago

This is the same asymmetry why I wont buy a tesla until tesla allows any mechanic to fix problems with it. ie, you are beholden to the manufacturer or seller, and are at their mercy. This becomes more important as the car ages.

In this case also, it appears that the customer has no recourse (bad reviews are taken down.)

immibis2• 1 year ago

In Germany it's apparently illegal to leave a bad review of a business. Even if their experience was bad. Even if you can prove in a court of law that they lied on their listing.

torstenv• 1 year ago

I don't agree that Booking.com handles customer complaints better than Airbnb. I had booked a flat through Booking.com. The host wanted a deposit of my credit card information via an untrustworthy customised Italian website for a deposit before handing over the pin to collect the key. I do not speak Italian. Giving my credit card information to a strange website whose language I don't speak was not part of the agreement. The host then refused to give me access to the flat. My complaint to Booking.com was answered with standard texts pointing out that the deposit was obligatory in the small print and therefore part of the contract. However, the small print, which I admittedly had not read before booking, stated that the deposit was to be paid in cash. It didn't say anything about credit cards. I tried over five rounds of back and forth to get a complaint and a refund via Booking, as I didn't actually receive the flat and therefore didn't get any service. Booking then simply stopped replying. When I then wanted to take legal action and claim the amount, it turned out that I would have had to sue somewhere in Holland. So all the money was gone and I had double the cost for that night because I had to book a room elsewhere. So I've had the worst experience with booking.com customer support.

benjaminwootton4• 1 year ago

I started out loving AirBNB. Then I had quite a few bad experiences and flipped back to hotels as the price equalised. In the last year or two I’ve gone back to AirBNB as the hosts seem to have professionalised and hotel prices have headed north.

Hotels.com also cancelled a brilliant loyalty programme of buy 9 nights get the 10th free which was another motivation to look elsewhere.

dizhn2• 1 year ago

I am currently on vacation in the Mediterranean and find a hybrid model to be the best of both worlds. We strictly use booking.com (we need to find a hotel at 6pm and check in at 7. Same thing the next day.Airbnb would never work.) Booking.com lists apartments too. I would imagine there's a huge overlap with airbnb properties. This way you're using the better company (they helped me out a bunch of times. And the listers are more inclined to behave on booking.com.) but staying in the same apartments with all the positives you listed. It's all self check in now too. I have yet to see any owner or manager.

neves• 1 year ago

Booking costumer service is a lot better. In it you find a great ally in negotiating with the property. But Airbnb...

SwtCyber3• 1 year ago

I get the ambition behind the "everything app," but if the core product gets diluted, none of the shiny extras will matter.

wnc31415• 1 year ago

markets are, by and large, too competitive for the "everything" app to ever exist. Air BnB works because they have figured out managing search and and a network of "hotels". This may not translate to other services in a way that other platforms could not do better. 'Why doesn't Uber do hotels?' - type of thing.

eadmund• 1 year ago

My issue with Airbnb stays is privacy. I don’t trust that the vendors (they’re really not ‘hosts’ nowadays) have not placed cameras and microphones throughout the rooms. I do trust that most (not all!) hotel owners don’t.

shlant3• 1 year ago

is this even a widespread problem? kind of reminds me of the tiktoks of "hotel safety tips"[1]. Makes me think these levels of paranoia are unique to the US

[1] https://www.thrillist.com/travel/nation/hotel-safety-hacks-t...

WhyNotHugo• 1 year ago

Prices are pretty close to hotels, but laundry and Kitchen always tilt the scale in favour of AirBnb.

When travelling for a week, I don't want to each out every day. I appreciate having a couple of things in the fridge for lazy moment, or being able to cook breakfast if I want to stay in late.

And I can wash a bunch of clothes instead of paying €8 to wash a single shirt.

devoutsalsa• 1 year ago

I was a digital nomad for 4 years. The ability to do your own laundry is why I prefer an Airbnb over hotel, especially when you’re only living out of carryon luggage with a few days of clothing. Relying on hotel laundry is hard to time and is not cheap.

MyPasswordSucks9• 1 year ago

If you were an analog nomad for 4 days you would have encountered a laundromat.

golly_ned• 1 year ago

Yeah, this is way too snarky for what Airbnb actually is.

pixelatedindex• 1 year ago

The whole cleaning routine for these places is getting pretty ridiculous though. I have to pay a cleaning fee, get the sheets from the bed and put it in the laundry, and whatever arbitrary stuff is in the checkout list. It never felt turnkey as a hotel.

I think I’m the wrong audience though, as I’m happy as a clam with something like a Best Western or a Motel 6.

socalgal2• 1 year ago

Rented 25 Airbnb’s . half were bad. by bad I mean they were not as advertised. Claimed to have parking for my car. didn’t. claimed to have wifi. didn’t. claimed to be at a particular location on a quiet street, were actually several blocks away on a busy street. been to ones who’s hvac was so loud as to be unusable, etc…

I stopped using them. will not got back

legitster• 1 year ago

Airbnb host here. A couple months ago we found a bug where Airbnb allowed two different guests to book the same night. Absolute madness ensued.

The worst part is we had their support on the line for hours. And he told that they didn't even have a way to escalate technical issues. His job was to stall on the phone and be yelled at until hosts gave up.

Unfortunately it's just the latest example of awful experiences with the company. As a host you are liable for everything. The only way to get them to hold up their end of the bargain is small claims court. They collect their fees for doing nearly nothing for either party.

You will not find a way to contact any individual at Airbnb. It's an impressively seamless anti-human design. They have built a wall and kicked down the ladder.

notpushkin• 1 year ago

Goodbye Airbnb. You will be missed.

SV_BubbleTime• 1 year ago

Reminds me of a phrase that I heard when Uber was going hard on self-driving vehicles for some reason.

Not even Uber wants to be the Uber of Whatever anymore

For an actual thought… I absolutely love that the era of free money is on pause!

jen729w2• 1 year ago

Chesky figured that Airbnb’s experience in attractively displaying homes, vetting hosts, and responding to crises could make it more trustworthy than competitors and therefore the go-to option for virtually anything.

Online reviews are totally broken. I recently spent a week at an Airbnb in the Gold Coast, Australia. The property was rated 5* but was tired and worn. The photos must have been 5 years old before a soul set foot in the place.

I rated it 3*. Shortly after, I got a phone call from the owner. He had my number because I'd had to call him because one of the two toilets in a five-bedroom 14-guest 'villa' was blocked. As in, overflowing with fecal matter blocked.

He essentially tried to bribe me to raise my review. I refused. The house is currently listed as 4.9* with those same photos. A preposterous exaggeration of its quality.

makeavish• 1 year ago

I too had similar experience. I booked a 4.9 rated property with 30 reviews. But experience was really poor and I rated 1 stars post checkout. The propery owner reachout to me asking for explanation but I wasn’t in any mood to discuss.

Hours later they filed fake complaint to Airbnb that I rated poorly as I wanted late checkout and asked money to remove review. Airbnb removed my review post that. I had a flight to catch so I couldn’t checkout late anyway. I shared even flight details with Airbnb but they didn’t reinstate review and added a strike to my account. I expect host did this previously as well to improve their rating.

OccamsMirror2• 1 year ago

Had a similar experience where a Sydney AirBnB listed their property as air-conditioned. Had a misting fan. That doesn't quite cut it as "air conditioning" in 45C weather. Had the same outcome as you. Ended up doing a chargeback on my card and got banned from the platform.

Wouldn't go back anyway.

bambax4• 1 year ago

Yes, I had a similar experience. Reviews on Airbnb can't be trusted because most hosts are experts at having bad reviews removed. But if reviews can't be trusted then the whole thing is worthless.

rightbyte8• 1 year ago

Ye reviews doesn't work when the reviewed know who reviews and what they say.

It is technically possible to add a delay or whatever such that the land lord doesn't know who gave the review.

And there are social problems too. It is like you never give anyone anything but 5/5 if some app make you rate someone, unless maybe the worker try to murder you. A 4 is a 1.

But I think landlords are in a way better position vs AirBnB than gig workers are versus their employers.

intrasight• 1 year ago

Recent changes make it very hard for hosts to remove reviews. Hosts are of course complaining.

Hopefully goes without saying that all communications should happen in the app.

keoneflick• 1 year ago

You're lucky. I had a real bad experience and the host managed to get Airbnb delete my review, I think the reason was something like host interactions were not relevant to the review? It was completely ridiculous.

Gareth321• 1 year ago

This reminds me of the time Amazon deleted my review about being sent expired products because the review wasn't about the product. It made me very dubious of the veracity of other reviews.

riffraff2• 1 year ago

I had a related experience where the host asked me to change my average review, but didn't try to bribe me (Italy, booking.com).

A friend of mine had the same bribe experience (Airbnb, Israel) with a terrible accommodation (moldy, dirty etc).

In hindsight, why wouldn't they? Even if their reviews tank they can just register again with different credentials.

azalemeth• 1 year ago

At least he was apologetic about the shitty toilet.

The last time I ever directly gave Airbnb money the host accused my female work colleague of blocking the toilet with menstrual products and charged us 400CAD for a plumber to "fix" it. My colleague was incensed -- she angrily stated that the chronology was wrong, demonstrated that no aforesaid items were in her possession, but the host didn't believe it. We ended up with my card being billed before claiming successfully on travel insurance. I can't believe that happened in Toronto -- Canada is one of the nicest places on the planet -- but (US) Airbnb support took the hosts side instantly and wouldn't budge. We had a shitty toilet for a week!

The last time I stayed in one was in a urine soaked crash pad with cardboard covering the broken windows in Montréal. We spent five hours there around the unsafe electrical unit before they did actually sort something else out. The host didn't reply to emails and it later turned out had been arrested, explaining both his silence and the less than salubrious people we'd previously been sharing with.

I deleted my account and refuse to go in airbnbs now. Booking.com is far from brilliant but at least it's scatologically free so far...

jen729w2• 1 year ago

At least he was apologetic about the shitty toilet.

I never said that! He was not.

elAhmo• 1 year ago

This same thing can be said for Google Maps and many other platforms.

I effectively stopped using Airbnb, both due to prices that are approaching or more expensive than hotels, but also because of this shift of hosts to only caring about reviews and focusing on making a steady stream of new people checking in, without really doing any effort of making someone return. As long as the review scores are fine, all is good.

The original idea of Airbnb is long gone, and I experienced more than once someone writing on Airbnb, then another person sending a message with check in instructions. It is a business - nothing wrong with that in general, but it is disguised as people renting their spare rooms, which is rarely the case now.

hnbad• 1 year ago

This is a general problem. These things worked before those platforms became successful enough to warrant a cottage industry around them. Nowadays there are "reputation management" companies specializing in getting bad reviews deleted by any means and shady businesses will actively bribe or shame customers into giving them perfect scores. For a while everyone knew that 5 star and 1 star ratings are often fake and that you should check the ratings in between to get the real ones but nowadays those often don't exist or are just as fake (often left by shadier "reputation management" companies to score them an easy win if the business hires them).

What services like Airbnb would need would be direct partners actually testing the listings in person. But that costs money and requires hiring staff, which is antithetical to the business model of "gig economy" apps which exist in order to avoid the overhead of running a real company in that industry by instead offloading all the work to "gig workers" as independent contractors.

slaw• 1 year ago

This is not a general problem. Reviews on booking.com are not removed and you can see low star reviews with details what is wrong. It is Airbnb issue.

haarolean• 1 year ago

They will happily oblige and put your review down if the host asks nicely. Happened to me, happened to my friends. Also they don’t care a bit about fake obvious reviews. Not like “not actively monitoring”, like telling you idk if you care to report it.

vjerancrnjak• 1 year ago

online reviews are inflated for everything

bribes or people just commenting "great" on avg or below avg offerings

If someone rents a place with scheduled roof repairs, not informing AirBnB or customer, they should be eternally banned. I couldn't even get a full refund. I can't imagine actual hospitality places with a long tradition around Mediterranean to ever do something like that.

I feel like it's very similar with everything:

* suitcases without nice silent rubber wheels, even premium suitcases have loud plastic ones,

* airplanes are a chore, descending into madness over time,

* eternally inefficient software, becoming slower and slower on faster hardware,

* tiktok guitarists without skill showing off their montaged videos earning a living through popularity,

the majority is voting out quality and care out of everything.

rafram3• 1 year ago

What I’ve learned (the hard way) is that you just get what you pay for. If an Airbnb is $100 and all the hotels in the area are $200, no matter what the photos look like and how good the reviews are, it will be terrible. Most people review at the end of their trip, when the disappointment of getting a crappy place is starting to fade, and tend to rate cheap places better than they really deserve.

xnx2• 1 year ago

Online reviews are totally broken

Strong cosign. Ratings and reviews should always be independent and beyond the control of that being reviewed. Reddit would be an amazing service if it supported commenting on any page/site/product/entity, but this is anathemic to advertising dollars.

km144• 1 year ago

Reddit at least used to have a form of value as a recommendations engine—searches for "best x site:reddit.com" would yield anything from decent to fantastic results depending on the product. But even that is completely useless nowadays due to bots and AI spam. Product recommendation services like Wirecutter have been ruined by Amazon affiliate links.

I have no idea who to trust on the quality of products in an era where the amount of choices available is overwhelming and the number of real human responses on the internet in any place where there's money to be made is dwindling by the day.

Quarrelsome2• 1 year ago

Sorry, but what in gods name is this passage:

Despite never meeting Jobs, “I feel like I know him deeply, professionally, in a way that few people ever did

As opposed to all the people that did actually met him, or worked for him?

This is such a painfully gushing puff piece and this sentence is peak cringe that just makes the man sound mentally ill.

forgotoldacc2• 1 year ago

I see this sentiment a lot these days. People who were around a person all day, everyday, for several years can say "this was the worst person I've ever known and they were completely incompetent"/"this person was an absolute saint and I was blessed to spend time alongside them", and some person who never met them will be like "your experiences are wrong and I know them better."

It's always weird and I have no clue why people get that mindset.

benjaminwootton4• 1 year ago

Reminds me of his “diary of a CEO” interview where he spends half of it reading out his own inspirational emails to the team.

Quarrelsome2• 1 year ago

omg I have to find this, do you know which one it is? I'm sure the office writers are kicking themselves they didn't think of this.

ookblah• 1 year ago

its about consistency to me. if you have a lot of time to kill on potential issues then sure. stopped using abnb when i traveled once and the AC was broken/leaking b/c the host thought i wouldn't mind it, then asked if i would be fine waiting 1-2 days while a repair guy came to fix it. thankfully the host was apologetic and worked with me and airbnb to get the refund, but i still had to book a hotel elsewhere.

with some chain hotel at least i know what to relatively expect in terms of service and amenities and have someone to complain to to make it right.

ChrisArchitect• 1 year ago

Official post: https://news.airbnb.com/airbnb-2025-summer-release/

standardUser2• 1 year ago

I used to be a big defender of AirBnB due to the many amazing experiences I've had with them over the years. But since then I've had several experiences that matched the negative feedback I had been hearing from other people, especially with US-based rentals, and now I'm a skeptic at best.

The CEO knows exactly what the problem is because he spells it out in the article...

Chesky explains that historically, people used Airbnb only once or twice a year, so its design had to be exceptionally simple.

It's true! I've probably averaged no more than 1-2 AirBnB stays per year for a lot of years. But the average host is probably handling 50+ guests per year. That means the host is the AirBnB customer, not me. I'm about as important to them as their cleaning service. The hosts and the execs are all just trying to make some money, and my dumb ass is in their way asking for extra towels and late checkout. Hotels are essentially just as hostile, except they are good at it. And since the cost savings have essentially disappeared I'm inclined to go with the pros and only look at AirBnB when the location or context give me some reason to choose the complicated option.

shlant3• 1 year ago

especially with US-based rentals, and now I'm a skeptic at best.

I have been using AirBNB for years (top 5% guest at one point) with virtually no issues (that weren't quickly resolved by support) and I imagine my experiences are this way because I am almost never in the US. I would love to see a poll on how people rate AirBnB broken down by where they usually stay.

standardUser2• 1 year ago

I agree, it's the US-based rentals that seem to all have become soulless, bare-minimum hovels as opposed to the lived-in homes of yesteryear.

ghaff11• 1 year ago

I've used AirBnB exactly once because the alternative resort-type places were insanely expensive and it was great. (Just one room and a screened porch which were great. No kitchen but didn't want one.) One other time I was canceled well in advance for no obvious reason but wasn't a big deal.

Per another comment, if I'm in a city, I mostly look for a functional/predictable hotel. Sometimes stay in conventional B&Bs as well, which may list on AirBnB as well.

Kneecaps07• 1 year ago

The hotel is at least a known quantity. You have a pretty good idea of what you're getting into, the expectations are clear between all parties, and you're having a fairly consistent experience between different hotels. With Airbnb you have no idea who or what you're dealing with.

With a hotel, I don't have to worry about a doorman asking me who I am and then having to lie, per the host's instructions (yes, this happened to me). I probably don't have to worry about the pictures being of an entirely different unit and having an entire day of my vacation ruined trying to find somewhere else to stay (yes, this happened to me). I know exactly where the hotel is before I hand over hundreds of dollars.

awaythrow999• 1 year ago

Uninstalled my AirBNB because of 2 resolution issues with hosts that were not in my favor despite me providing all documentation and (damning) evidence.

The reason I should have uninstalled it much longer is because it's toxic for rent prices. I now pay more for hotels and sleep well.

I got rid of Uber for the same reason.

seydor• 1 year ago

They should have launched services for hosts instead. Airbnbers interface with cleaning / repairpeople, not masseuses. They could even expand to construction and interior design as so many people are building and converting airbnbs. They could take advantage of their synergies there.

They are bringing more "amateur professionals" along with the hosts by adding all those services. this is a big, unruly crowd of half-assed servicepeople

benjaminwootton4• 1 year ago

That’s a good idea. I’m just setting up an AirBNB and need all of the above.

jeffhwang• 1 year ago

The article repeatedly cites “2 billion users” of Airbnb. That isn’t true, right? From casual Googling, I’ve seen is 5 million hosts and 1.5b stays—which is nowhere near 2b users (alltime, MAU, or otherwise).

Xenoamorphous2• 1 year ago

As someone living in a condo in a pretty touristic place: fuck Airbnb; or maybe fuck the local government that allows Airbnb to advertise properties that don't have (because they can't have) a license to operate.

jajko3• 1 year ago

There are places which allow officially licensed airbnb, vrbo etc apartments. They don't need to follow same code as hotels, its a special category. Ie in France this is true, and France is consistently the most visited country by tourists globally.

In many top places hotels would not be able to accommodate all visitors coming, meaning only the richest would get them.

Xenoamorphous2• 1 year ago

They’re supposedly regulated where I live, too, but the property has to meet certain criteria like having an independent entrance in the building, which most apartments can’t meet so they operate illegaly, and Airbnb happily allows them to be in their platform.

So now I have to put up with the apartment next door being an illegal Airbnb, with all the inconveniences that come with that.

courseofaction• 1 year ago

Recently scammed out of $800 in fake maintenance claims by a first time host. Support was beyond useless.

wodenokoto• 1 year ago

To me this transition seems much more obvious for something like Uber:

Manage rides -> manage deliveries -> manage booking with places that are already in network -> expand bookings from restaurants to other services -> expand bookings to hotels -> vacation homes.

But honestly going the other way around isn’t that crazy.

hooch• 1 year ago

Uber also had the good sense to not bake a narrow service category into its brand.

neya• 1 year ago

I never book AirBnB's because they refuse to address the core issues of privacy within the homes - such as owners installing hidden cameras. So many private videos are shared from AirBnB's and yet they do nothing about it - simply because they're just the glorified middlemen here and don't have actual staff who physically vet their locations. This is why hotels rule are preferred. IF I book a room in Hilton, I know full well knowing I will receive a guaranteed comfort level. An AirBnB's host's mood determins if I will enter their property or will be stranded in the middle of the road (been there, done that). And I would much rather talk to someone at a reception than type out an email hoping I get a reply.

mvdwoord• 1 year ago

I am also deterred by the never ending shady descriptions and filtering. Too many times, selecting something with two bedrooms, and when you look and read closely, it shows a couch in the living room which is the "second bedroom". This and quality issues, and sometimes even blatant cancellations from the owners.

My GF loves it though and has a bigger preference of staying somewhere more homely as opposed to a hotel. Truth be told she has found a couple of great places...

FirmwareBurner• 1 year ago

Also the high cleaning fees and service fees when its obvious the apartments barely see any cleaning.

aurareturn• 1 year ago

Potential hidden cameras is the #1 reason I prefer hotels over Airbnb.

I've seen Airbnb slowly get banned in many places I've visited over the last 5-6 years. Hong Kong. Banned and heavily restricted. Singapore. Same. Saigon. Same. All of China. Same. Taipei. Same.

I sold all my Airbnb stocks. I couldn't be wrong and maybe they'll find a way but it seems like the world wants less and less Airbnb and not more.

bwfan1233• 1 year ago

why are they banned ? is it violation of local regulations or is it pressure from the hotel lobby - specifically singapore which has capitalist aspirations.

meva2• 1 year ago

I booked an AirBnb in Spain, no cameras mentioned in the listing. When I arrived, I found two, one of them pointed at the bathroom door, so most of the bathroom was visible when the door was open. Also, even though photos mostly matched the apartment, the address in the listing was not the real address. The host directed me to a different address in private messages. Reported it all to AirBnb, they ignored it.

lifestyleguru4• 1 year ago

Cameras in short term rentals in Spain is another level of insolence. If you rent over airbnb and booking in Spain there WILL BE camera(s) in the apartment. They will frivolously say "it's disabled right now". I have no idea how they are not sued into fucking oblivion. I know about "ocupas", but I am not "ocupas" and I'm paying you 100 euro per night for this shithole with cameras inside.

margorczynski2• 1 year ago

What needs consideration are the people that live near the places that are rented out for Airbnb or Booking. It destroys the social fabric by injecting a rotation of strangers into the community, sometimes those strangers are also very problematic by e.g. throwing loud parties. On top of that it drives up the prices pushing out normal people out of the better parts of the city.

ProllyInfamous2• 1 year ago

For about seven years, I lived between two of Chattanooga's top tourist attractions / revenue generators. Although our city has banned new STRs, pre-existing properties are grandfathered (which conveys with deed).

It destroys the social fabric by injecting a rotation of strangers into the community.

Absolutely this. Literally half on my former neighborhood was AirBNBs, mostly small-time couples (1 or 2 properties) but also mega-owners (dozens).

During my few years on the side of Lookout Mountain (a relatively nice part of the city), we had several small-time police altercations (typically younger folks with drugs/alcohol), but one huge event stands out in particular: a D-list soundcloud rapper concluded a raging party by attempting to intentionally burn the structure down [paid on a stolen credit card]. The only reason his group was caught: they posted TikTok footage of "they new crib," which included them trashing the place — it only didn't become a structure fire because we heard the smoke alarms early!

I'm not sure what concessions AirBNB gave the homeowner, but very quickly the house was sold (and is again for sale).

My brother lives nearby, and literally none [¡ZERO!] of his neighboring houses house neighbors. You get to the point that you just ignore everybody in the neighborhood (this constant stream of changing faces) and mumble bitterly to yourself when mega-AirBNB-owner purchases his tenth home/hotel.

Isn't this why cities initially created zoning?!

----

Fortunately for me, I moved to a less-desirable part of town which houses zero AirBNBs (and lots of wonderful working-class neighbors).

margorczynski2• 1 year ago

Yep, exactly what I meant. This is essentially privatizing profits, socializing costs. And it should be ended using the government.

If you want to play hotel owner then build one without exploiting people that want to live normal lives with their families.

spaceman_2020• 1 year ago

I seriously don't understand why anyone would use Airbnbs when serviced apartments exist

Only time it makes sense is if you're traveling with a large group of people

internet_points• 1 year ago

Enshittification of Airbnb started long ago. The time seems ripe for more focused alternatives.

borroka• 1 year ago

I am baffled that every time the Airbnb issues come up, there is a plethora of "just book hotels" comments. The use cases are, or can be, wildly different.

I am not a particular fan of Airbnb--nobody is a fan of real estate agents, they are intermediaries that provide a service, facilitate discovery, etc.--but I am currently staying in an apartment I booked on Airbnb, and I am spending $2k a month for it. Decent space, a kitchen I can use, space for my clothes, a washing machine, a big fridge. If I had to book a hotel room, I would spend at least $8k a month for it.

“Book a hotel room” sounds like when a former university instructor told a student to "just install Linux" when they had some authorization issues on their Windows computer. The use cases are different.

int_19h4• 1 year ago

That... sounds like a regular rental to me?

pembrook• 1 year ago

Airbnb is a giant example of what happens when you go too far into thinking you can solve real world issues with software UI.

Or run a hospitality business without doing any real hospitality.

Yes, a marketplace is a dream business from a profitability perspective, but it’s too easy to forget the marketplace is not the actual product that people come to the marketplace for.

It doesn’t matter if you have 5000 overpaid developers building the slickest software, the end product is not the Airbnb software, it’s the actual hospitality experience.

BLenkomo6• 1 year ago

I don't think anyone at AirBnB wanted to solve a real world issue.

They wanted to disrupt a market, same as uber, and did this by circumventing laws and breaking everything.

There is a reason why we have zoning laws: To protect housing for people. AirBnB broke this. Took my city munich / germany years in curt to get the data from AirBnB.

While Covid, plenty of reports came up how suddenly good flats in good locations became available again for renting to humans.

My mother uses flats for her retirement (she is not employed by a company and therefore doesn't get benefits) and she always tries to keep the rent low. Just that someone tried to AirBnB HER flat for more money than the rent.

Uber, just in case you are not aware of, takes the cake from taxi companies. Taxis who are there even if uber is not available. The only problem with taxis i have: They fight accepting credit cards still today. "Oh credit card? Mh were do you want to go?" yeah fu...

rightbyte8• 1 year ago

Took my city munich / germany years in curt to get the data from AirBnB.

This is so strange. Why can't the beurocrats just read the listings as everyone else? Is it too cumbersome to prove an apartment is sublet?

fkyoureadthedoc4• 1 year ago

There is a reason why we have zoning laws: To protect housing for people.

Really? In practice it looks more like zoning laws exist so NIMBYs can increase their property value and keep black people away.

keiferski2• 1 year ago

Taxis were a nightmare to use before Uber; and they often weren’t available at all.

The whole concept of taxi medallions is also extreme market manipulation with basically no benefit to the average consumer, which makes it doubly odd that someone would consider them somehow more ethical or less manipulative.

npodbielski• 1 year ago

The only product for them is the profit margin for share holders. Your vacation is just side effect :)

wnc31415• 1 year ago

I think we're come to declining marginal gains of software driven businesses when the real competitive advantage comes from real product and operations.

cosbgn• 1 year ago

Airbnb is, in my opinion, one of the companies with the biggest negative societal impact.

Airbnb complementary destroyed some great places and rural cities around the world, because of them:

- Food/Restaurant prices go up

- Food/Restaurant quality goes down

- Real estate price goes up

- Dirtiness goes up

- Bugs and other animals thrive

- Quality of shops goes down, everything is disposable

- Quality of building/materials goes down, why install a wooden window if it's for an airbnb?

You could argue that it's not because of Airbnb but because of tourism, but I don't think so, Hotels are heavily regulated, they have strict cleaning rules, max occupancy and are built to host a certain amount of people, mass tourism wouldn't be possible without Airbnb.

whazor• 1 year ago

Airbnb is great for smaller places though. I was looking at some smaller Italian cities and there are mostly traditional b&b's, plus a couple of hotels. So the Airbnb's blend in well, and I think it is too small to really destroy the city itself.

BLenkomo6• 1 year ago

We had already plenty of websites supporting real B&Bs because real B&Bs are registered and can use normal hotel searching websites and portals.

isaacremuant4• 1 year ago

mass tourism wouldn't be possible without Airbnb.

Have you not travelled before Airbnb is a thing in a place? There were always similar alternatives?

The blame game with Airbnb is the most ridiculous thing ever.

Completely unfounded to try to blame so many things such as the housing crisis. Oh, that is just Airbnb. Just ignore that you still have problems due to taxes, government policies in places where there's virtually no Airbnb offera.

Hotels being regulated generally means nothing in places where there's a lot of tourism because you still get extremely poor services and experiences at times and Airbnb and other similar BnB services (this is not new, come on, is everyone <30 years old?) have provided much needed competition improving quality, which has otherwise been going downward steadily (cleaning, breakfast, bathrooms, etc).

You seem to dislike supply so youd problably want to ban low cost airlines so that less of the "rubble/mass tourists" would travel, right?

ricardobeat4• 1 year ago

There is a massive difference between a bed-and-breakfast and what AirBnB offers. Old-style B&Bs are (family) businesses, open all year round, and registered with tourism entities, much like a hotel.

casenmgreen2• 1 year ago

I'm a digital nomad.

One luggage, no permanent home, been fifteen years.

I used to use AirBnB all the time.

They gradually become more and more, well, "large company".

I used to still look at AirBnB (until very recently, when one of the founders joined DOGE), but I saw that their fee continually rose over time, and became like 10% or 15%, and there's in many places (Paris, Amsterdam, New York, London...) no meaningful listings (which is due to State bans).

I was in Paris last couple of months. There was nothing viable on AirBnB, unless you wanted to pay several thousand a month. There was a set of listings which I concluded was a scam, the same very dodgy letting agency, who had lots of apartments, all with no ratings, but very bad reviews on-line elsewhere. I think they were continually deleting and remaking their lets on AirBnB, to get rid of negative reviews.

AirBnB itself (and here we see "large company") became unreliable as a service, in that I never knew, when I came to us it, if log-in would still work.

I recall the first time log-in failed for no obvious reason, and the and the only option was "email support and we'll contact you in a few days" - and I was looking to move in about two weeks time, and had of course no reason to have confidence in the boilerplate estimate of "few days".

After that, I put up my own HTTPS proxy, which I now use whenever I use AirBnB, to avoid AirBnB when I log in suspending my account, which I then have to have support fix, which of course means the account cannot be used until support get back to me, and assuming they actually do unblock the account, and given how variable support is, this is not a given.

I also recall one episode about ten years ago where I had to phone support. It was a three hour long screaming nightmare of hell and madness, which was eventually resolved by dint of the new process AirBnB had imposed on users (something about ID and account photos, IIRC) actually not working properly, so in the end it turned out Support (some poor Indian woman working from home) and I were able to circumvent the problem.

I've also been reading people write about AirBnB blocking their valid negative reviews on spurious grounds. That undermines all reviews on all properties; you're looking at reviews wondering if there were valid bad reviews you're not seeing because AirBnB has been blocking them.

To summarize, fees are now rather high, when it comes to Support my response is Jesus please God anything but Support, I had to backdoor my own HTTPS traffic to use the service, I'm now uncertain about the veracity of reviews, and no viable apartments in quite a lot of locations.

So, for me, AirBnB was great, but now it's really not.

Then, recently, one of the founders (his role now is only on the board) came out as pro-MAGA and joined DOGE, and that was the end of AirBnB for me.

The one and critical thing AirBnB got right was building into their platform the expectation owners would offer discounts for stays over a week, or over a month.

I don't see this on other platforms, and it makes pricing on other platforms crazy. If I come and stay for three months, I expect a discount for giving full occupancy over that time. If you don't offer that, you're off the menu.

ranguna• 1 year ago

What do you use instead?

xdkyx• 1 year ago

Booking?

casenmgreen2• 1 year ago

A mixture of approaches.

Sometimes, places I've been to before, where the owners and I know each other.

Another approach is to look on AirBnB and if there is anything, use the images n reverse image search to find the listing on other sites - and often places are on other sites.

Other times, a more general search for the location of interest and see what's there which is simply not on AirBnB, and negotiate discount for long stay.

For the now considerable number of cities where AirBnB has been or has effectively been banned by State, you have to use these approaches anyway - that's how I got into Paris.

SwtCyber3• 1 year ago

Turning Airbnb into an "everything app" feels... conflicted. The platform's core strength was always about trusting strangers in a very specific context

alias_neo• 1 year ago

I've never really liked AirBnB, and my experience this year has confirmed my feelings.

On two separate occasions this year I've had issues with them.

First, my wife had booked a lodge in the lakes with lots of outdoor space for us to go with the kids and hopefully see the stars, and give them room to roam outdoors; for months our children had been looking forward to it, and a mere 4 days before, the host contacted us saying they'd have to cancel because the power was out; clearly bullshit, no apology, they'd obviously gotten a better price elsewhere because it just happened the weather was looking better than expected that weekend; and I don't see how it would take 4 days to get the power back on; it wasn't remote.

On a separate occasion, 2 friends and I had booked an AirBnB in Wales to attend a wedding together in the area, the host cancelled days later because they'd accidentally double booked; we booked another, they cancelled, no excuse; half a dozen cancellations later, we currently have a booking, and we'll find out in a couple of weeks how that goes.

I don't have the time or the patience for this kind of game-playing bullshit from hosts, and I certainly don't like disappointing my children; I would choose a hotel at a higher cost but they're not always able to provide the experience you're aiming for; it's not always just a room to stay in.

We've used AirBnB in other parts of the world without issues, but we'd usually book those for a few days into a trip, and start with a hotel, so you're not arriving somewhere and immediately have problems when something goes wrong.

One country in particular; my wife and I travelled with two friends who were travelling to arrange their wedding in said (European) country, booked two double rooms, we arrive and we knock at the address we're given, since we've been given no further details; the "host" says to come with him; first tries to put us all up in a box room in some lady's house, with two bunk beds with an adjacent toilet that was flooded and pouring in to the room; when we decline, he takes us to another place where an old man was looking to rent a room, he seemed like a nice man, but my wife was uncomfortable because his living area had a window into the shared shower room, no thanks; the old man was quite upset that we'd declined, he probably needed the money and we felt a little guilty about that; after a couple more examples of this wandering around the town with this guy, it had become apparent, he was taking bookings for rooms that didn't exist and trying to put people up in random peoples homes; I suspect he also wasn't paying them near what he was taking for these bookings.

It was a disgrace, and when we became irritated after so much time wondering around with our cases in the heat we suggested we'll book rooms at the Hilton we had passed while wandering and deal with AirBnB after our break, he managed to find us something suitable; both "almost" to the standard we had booked, and both places he had the keys to in his pocket.

We reported it to AirBnB, but they of course did nothing.

hankchinaski• 1 year ago

Airbnb is generally fine but I would never probably use it again if I could. They have very high fees and zero support when something goes wrong. I now pretty much prefer hotels, the price is the sane but the service is not comparable. At least for shorter stays

meekaaku• 1 year ago

I have used airbnb before across many countries, but now its more of uncertainties. Cleanliness, having urself to take trash etc etc. High cleaning fees, collecting key from a lockbox etc. Especially when traveling with kids.

booking.com also offers apartments too, and has far better pay upon arrival and pay nothing right now features.

stdbrouw2• 1 year ago

Unlike others, I have only had good experiences with Airbnb, both as a host and as a guest. The platform has improved a lot in the past couple of years -- many small quality-of-life improvements for non-professional hosts to make things easier to manage, such as automatic pricing, automatic blocking of days to avoid back-to-back bookings (if you need it), instant booking but only for guests that match your criteria, templated instruction messages to guests, etc. etc. Customer support has been decent too, though I have also heard the horror stories. It's too bad they feel the need to turn it into an everything app, I can only imagine how great the platform could be if they just decided to be the very best short rental platform. For one, they could ditch Jony Ive's reworking of the review process in favor of something that actually solves the issue with rating inflation and differences in how people rate.

rightbyte8• 1 year ago

instant booking but only for guests that match your criteria

What criteria? What do the hosts know about the guests?

stdbrouw2• 1 year ago

You can select on minimum guest rating, and anyone with special requests (eg an extra guest, an infant) also cannot instant book. Not age or race if that’s what you were thinking :-)

mfld• 1 year ago

I find that the Airbnb fees are too high for what you get, which often boils down to the contact information of the renter. For some regions in Europe, I actually prefer again local vacation rental agencies, which have similar fees but much more service. Of course, their websites are often not great, but describing your requirements via phone or email gives great options.

ricardobeat4• 1 year ago

but whenever they needed to find a portrait photographer, a personal trainer, or someone to cook their meals

Oh, the disconnect. Your average person rarely hires services like this, maybe a handful of times over a lifetime.

rightbyte8• 1 year ago

Good people are hard to find these days.

ghaff11• 1 year ago

While probably an eternal truth, many/most people in the US can't afford to pay a lot of people for personal services.

sureIy3• 1 year ago

You'd be surprised by how many rich people there are. Airbnb doesn't need to sell millions of these services to make millions off them. If an "experience" costs $150, that's just as good as a night in their rooms, if not more profitable.

incomingpain• 1 year ago

Airbnb is brilliant in concept. It's finding value where there used to be essentially waste.

BUT then came the growing pains caused by investors and speculators. Both of which clashed with governments who were manipulating their housing markets.

This isnt a place you want your business competing; the governments will come take you out.

Toronto for example, airbnbs can only be your principal residence. You have to register and license. there's a 4% airbnb tax.

This wipes out the investors and speculators. toronto's housing pricing is down 5% across the board. There's now people selling and losing ~$400,000. We're at record highs for number of units unsold. # of Sales are down 20%

There has to be a correction, but how that doesnt pop the housing bubbles, i dunno. doesnt help that toronto's unemployment is at 10% which is worse than the financial crisis. Toronto's also losing their film industry shortly. Auto industry is suspended if not moving.

bilsbie• 1 year ago

I wish cancellation policies were more reasonable or they offered some kind of inexpensive cancellation insurance. It’s hard to always know where you’ll be months in advance.

Also do they let your search by final price now or do they still hide a bunch of fees?

Why even allow fees? Make the owners set a price that includes what they need for cleaning, etc.

tharmas• 1 year ago

Please only book with owner OCCUPIED AirBnBs otherwise your contributing to local housing problems.

bionhoward• 1 year ago

Gotta say I was super impressed by their stylish launch and I love the design of this and hope it works out!

dkobia• 1 year ago

High service and cleaning fees while being a significant source of Airbnb's revenue, helping to drive topline growth are also the biggest source of frustration for many users. Throw in privacy issues and the fact that hotels are stepping up their game and the midlife crisis sounds about right.

some_random• 1 year ago

There are two ways of looking at Airbnb, as a hotel substitute or as a resort substitute. It has a very hard time competing with hotels, as others have stated there are advantages but overall an airbnb is going to be worse and/or more expensive. BUT the resort substitute is where it is a lot more competitive, and this whole experience thing seems like a good way to lean into that element.

mattzito• 1 year ago

Are we talking about the same Airbnb? When I think of resorts, I think of staff, bars, restaurants, activities, often all inclusive, and often catered to my desired demographic (adults only, family friendly, etc.)

When I think of Airbnb, I think of an apartment with a pool in the Caribbean, where I have to hunt around to figure out the best places to eat, or cook myself.

int_19h4• 1 year ago

Some people genuinely prefer it that way. Or they cannot afford a "true" all-inclusive resort experience but still want to go on vacation in a nice location.

In some countries at least the latter is a well-established tradition that long predates Airbnb. Like, you'd literally just drive or take a train to some coastal town and then look around for signs that say "vacancy".

SirMaster• 1 year ago

I love Airbnb and have had nothing but excellent experiences. At least where I have stayed at them the quality and amenities seem to be far better than a hotel for the money.

olelele• 1 year ago

This article reads like pure marketing drivel to me; comparing Airbnb founder to Steve Jobs and side selling Altmans new projects…

This app based disruption shit that was fed by zero interest rate policies can go somewhere very far away as far as I’m concerned. Like Mars.

sershe• 1 year ago

I think Airbnb is net better than hotels, including places with agents that are basically condo hotels. Much more variety.. hotels are OTOH more predictable and reliable. If I don't need variety (a kitchen? A place very close to some obscure spot? Fancy? Cheap?) i'd pick a hotel. Or if I need weird checkin times and the airbnbs have in person check in.

Contrary to other comments I wish they'd actually focus on both the agent and the random host scenarios...

But personally my favorite things are weird places that are a bedroom in a house.

The mild form is when they have a dog you get to pet/play with. The less mild is staying with people who are weird in a non dangerous way.

My only bad experience was also with dogs, a place where when you step out to the bathroom at night two formerly friendly large dogs shadow you, growling cause, a rando walking around at night! Really helps the bowel movement.

And the weirdest experience I had was 2 girls roommates who advertised their open floor plan living room as a "separate bedroom" (it was not instant book and I'm very obviously a dude). With a cat that slept at my feet, and a dog that woke me up in the morning (they did offer to lock up both). Then when I was talking to one of them in the kitchen she told me without any context that they were not lesbians. I am in a relationship and it was pretty awkward so I didn't develop the subject further, but I am still wondering.

1x00• 1 year ago

Why is Wired so pessimistic

nektro• 1 year ago

Airbnb is such a net-negative on society. it'd be great if they came out the other side dissolving.

shah_akshat• 1 year ago

They charge a lot in cleaning & maintenance fees. Sometimes the place doesn't match the description/photos. Had some good & bad experiences

dangus• 1 year ago

This is giving me Groupon vibes. Airbnb went from offering something of a unique product to having no real identity anymore.

Just like with Groupon where the idea was so novel for the time but quickly faded away as irrelevant, a diluted shell of its former self.

When you really think about it, Airbnb offers you nothing that a normal travel booking site by the giant incumbents like Expedia group offer, and unlike Airbnb, Expedia group sites can compare rentals by owner alongside real hotels, too.

So basically when you go to Airbnb you're going to a partial travel site and it's also a travel site without any extra travel functionality like rental cars, hotels, and other vacation packages.

I wonder if Airbnb's pivot toward local experiences is a much bigger mistake than using their momentum to make a real attempt at competing more directly with Expedia/Priceline. Why didn't Airbnb start working with hotels and other traditional travel industry players?

majestik• 1 year ago

TLDR: AirBnb is spending “hundreds of millions” to become the new Craigslist.

arisAlexis• 1 year ago

Hotels are the tourist experience. Loud. If Airbnb goes down I will be an unhappy nomad.

prinny_• 1 year ago

“I was basically going from room to room just pouring out this stream-of-consciousness manifesto, like Jack Kerouac writing On the Road,” he says, referring to the frenetically produced single roll of teletype paper that catalyzed the beat movement.

A disappointing and soulless comparison.

Airbnb is in midlife crisis mode

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