Lily – Drone camera

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9532777

by duck • 11 years ago

1397 480 11 years ago

news.ycombinator.com

Nadya3• 11 years ago

That's really, really nifty. Was wondering when a "point and shoot" drone would hit the market.

I really want one but I've grown wary of pre-ordering products that haven't been manufactured yet...

blrsk2• 11 years ago

Thank you Nadya! We are shipping in February 2016 and will be sending out frequent updates. Stay tuned at www.lily.camera.

ericz• 11 years ago

That is one of the first videos I've seen in a long time where I've thought "wow we can do that now?"

blrsk2• 11 years ago

Thank you! This is just a glimpse of what one can do with Lily. Check out our website www.lily.camera for more information.

wingerlang• 11 years ago

The submission is literally a link to the website.

jimboyoungblood• 11 years ago

go bears. i just placed my order.

Mithaldu• 11 years ago

This is some of the best marketing i've seen in a long while.

Just in case it's not obvious: I'm not complaining or being sarcastic, this is honest praise.

binarydogs• 11 years ago

Brilliant video. Felt the need to watch it twice through in quick succession.

irl_zebra2• 11 years ago

Wow! Preordered, but used my AMEX in case it turns out to be VaporWare.

sc00ty• 11 years ago

Out of curiousity, what does your AMEX card offer if this is VarporWare?

exelius2• 11 years ago

Amex allows you to dispute charges very easily. Their dispute resolution process is slanted in favor of the cardholder rather than the merchant.

irl_zebra2• 11 years ago

Oh, well AMEX in general is the most liberal with consumer-protection. If it ends up being fake, or the end product is nothing like the description, or whatever, AMEX just credits you with no questions asked. They also do lots of cool stuff like automatically doubling warranties and such.

liuhenry• 11 years ago

Here's a hands-on video with a prototype: http://resourcemagonline.com/2015/05/hands-on-with-the-lily-...

darrelld2• 11 years ago

This is cool. I've been dreaming about something similar. In my mind though it would be smaller and could hitch a ride on your shoulder.

6502nerdface• 11 years ago

I imagine that one problem is that if it's too small, it will be unstable in wind... So since they need a certain amount of weight for stability anyway, might as well devote it to big batteries (rather than being small and dense).

darrelld2• 11 years ago

You're right. I wait for the day when we can make the batteries smaller / motors more powerful.

vvpan• 11 years ago

This is when these things will find their true purpose: http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/41blwh4qNWL._SL500_.jp...

jnsaff2• 11 years ago

#selfiecopter

TazeTSchnitzel• 11 years ago

Like a selfie stick, but way cooler.

zellyn• 11 years ago

This is great. Now, we're just waiting for better batteries: stretching out 20 minutes of flight time across a day or even morning of skiing, kayaking, etc. is going to be difficult. I guess you can carry batteries with you.

profinger• 11 years ago

Especially at the rate that batteries degrade. It'll be no time before you're getting 3-4 minutes per charge!

timmaah• 11 years ago

Battery is not removable.

crimsonalucard5• 11 years ago

That's horrible and possibly a deciding factor. I guess it had to be done in order to make it waterproof.

IanDrake• 11 years ago

These are cool, but...

1) 20 minutes is great if your sole purpose is getting video, but not if your sole purpose is surfing (let's say). A surf session might be 2 hours. Taking a break to put your dead flying camera away in the middle of it isn't ideal.

Still there could be work around for this at some point.

2) Air space. The real problem. If you're surfing (again) or skiing you'll annoy everyone with the sound of your drone.

Still for the more adventurous who get to surf or ski alone, this does look pretty awesome, but will never be as ubiquitous as the GoPro.

louhike• 11 years ago

This drone does not seem at all to be optimized for surf. It even says in the FAQ to be cautious when putting it in salted water.

But yes, 20 minutes is really short, it's its major default. I suppose it was a necessary sacrifice to make this kind of product at this time.

edc117• 11 years ago

Charging base where it could land and somehow automatically change batteries (or switch with another drone?) would solve some of this. Hopefully battery tech will pick up a lot in the next 10-20 years!

amelius• 11 years ago

It's waterproof, but still the lens will get wet. How did they solve that?

Also, does it have built-in collision avoidance?

coryl• 11 years ago

Probably have a coating of hydrophobic treatment so water slides off.

jonknee4• 11 years ago

Solve what? The lens gets wet just like any other waterproof camera. At least this one will blow dry itself off in short order.

0xdeadbeefbabe2• 11 years ago

In the video they looked apprehensive for a moment when lily landed in the river next to the kayak. Or maybe that was just me feeling apprehensive for them.

hoopism• 11 years ago

Serious question. Is this not a thing being sold already? The design is really nice and the video is really well done... the waterproof seems maybe a new thing.

I have seen multiple promo videos for various drones offering same "follow me" feature.

Here's one I found in few seconds https://store.3drobotics.com/products/iris

The 3d mapping on this one is amazing.

josefresco• 11 years ago

I wonder how this handles obstacles. The trails we ride are not wide open ski slopes, or rivers, often times they are tight/wooded trails. Would like to see how it handles "close following".

Lastly, the part in the video where the guy just tosses it into the river was definitely mind-blowing.

alexcroox• 11 years ago

This is the big reason people don't buy these types of drones (this one certainly isn't the first of it's kind).

It doesn't have obstacle avoidance or it will make a massive deal of it.

agumonkey4• 11 years ago

Intel last keynote demoed very capable drones. They're showing it off, it won't be long until it hits the market. They named the components RealSense, a miniature kinect I guess. Nice demo at 4:55:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Us0BqJvsF9k&t=295

seivan2• 11 years ago

I probably have no clue what I am talking about, but wouldn't it be sorta like steering forces?

Seek A Avoid B

In your case, a ton of Bs in terms of leaves, branches and etc.

I guess it would need a wide scan to detect if there is a path either vertically or horizontally.

crimsonalucard5• 11 years ago

maybe someone can pull it off with ultra sound? Those can be pretty cheap.

joefreeman2• 11 years ago

I guess the drone wouldn't be able to launch from the water if it had landed upside-down?

(As a concept, this is amazing - excited to see how well it works in practice.)

monk_e_boy3• 11 years ago

Waterproof will be amazing safety for kitesurfing and surfing in general, quadcopters are super cool, but you don't want to drop one in salty water. There are already techie stuff for kiters, we use the Woo device and gopros a lot.

Most areas have a club to keep members under control (irresponsible kiting can be dangerous to people not in the sea, unlike surfing) ... our club is keen on getting Woos, GoPros, webcams, internet enabled wind-o-meters etc... Hope they decide to get one of these!!

semi-extrinsic10• 11 years ago

The biggest showstopper for me on this is the hugely disappointing top speed (40 km/h). I'm an alpine skier (ex-racer) and the only times I go that slow is on transport stages. This thing literally wouldn't be able to keep up with Usain Bolt running the 100m. It needs at least twice the top speed.

wahsd• 11 years ago

Usain Bolt does around 38 km/h

jonknee4• 11 years ago

That's actually pretty speedy for a quad, especially to remain stable. If you want to race at 100MPH and have gyro-stabilized video you should get a helicopter and a camera crew.

I for one would prefer the aerial robot following me to not be traveling at 60MPH. That's asking for a serious injury.

larrys• 11 years ago

Not to mention that the speed (+-) is variable by the wind speed.

dharma111• 11 years ago

It's not hard to make a quad fly 150km/h - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JO85qrlUqkw.

Obviously gets quite dangerous in populated areas like ski slopes.

lsaferite9• 11 years ago

Well, I would imagine a lot of your speed is downward right? Then it's a matter of a controlled decent really. I'd guess that would increase the top speed of the device as it's really just falling out of the sky and steering.

bambax2• 11 years ago

Maybe you can send it ahead of you and instead of following you it just shoots as you come towards it?

monk_e_boy3• 11 years ago

Wonder if you can buy a few and tell them to follow each other.

grecy7• 11 years ago

The FAQ says they're working on having multiple cameras follow one person

jshap70• 11 years ago

This is the true hacker mentality right here

TeMPOraL• 11 years ago

You could probably just duct tape the tracking device to another drone. Looping them together like ants would be cool! :D.

guiporto• 11 years ago

Yeah. I kiteboard and I would love to make some images using Lilly. But I'm pretty sure eventually Lilly may crash into the lines or kite.

dtjones• 11 years ago

Same. Also curious about the max wind speed it can handle

titanomachy6• 11 years ago

Ugh thinking of that gave me shudders. Kiting is dangerous enough without these things flying around, I would definitely give someone a piece of my mind if they started flying a drone in a busy spot.

blackkettle2• 11 years ago

I wonder how well it will work for surfing. Probably great for small crumblers and open faces; probably not so great at the Right: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_N_-vxfz4uw . Can you imagine how sick it would be to get this thing to follow in a tube at Teahupoo: https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=7w... !!

gonzo• 11 years ago

do you surf? Have you ever experienced the push of air that develops from a closing / collapsing tube?

flexie• 11 years ago

I see it the other way around. This could help humans handle obstacles, at least if it could launch itself automatically and when it's a bit smaller so that it's really easy to carry around.

African American males could carry it. Then, when police was nearby it could launch itself. Maybe it would be triggered by the sound of sirens or if there is a website that tracks police cars, maybe it could launch every time they are near. Or maybe an apple watch could detect fear from differences in pulse and then launch it. Maybe some other trigger

A future, self launching, slightly smaller version of this could be a great protector of civil rights.

vdnkh• 11 years ago

This is a colossally stupid idea. How is this better than someone having a cellphone? Are you always holding it outstretched on your hand, anticipating a cop to drive by any second? Or can it crawl out of your pocket to defend your civil rights?

wehadfun2• 11 years ago

This is not a bad idea.

Women could carry it if they run at night and if they don't make it home it could fly to a police station.

Parents could send them out with their kids.

srdev2• 11 years ago

Police do not react well to being filmed. What will likely happen is that your drone will be confiscated as "evidence" or destroyed. Its not as if cell phones do not exist to fill the same role here.

BinaryIdiot• 11 years ago

I wonder how this handles obstacles.

According to the creators v1 doesn't handle obstacles at all due to time and cost. I'm sure a later version can be made to do so; I feel like it should be far easier to do in a 3D space versus a flatted space like ground vehicles.

rattray• 11 years ago

Relatedly, I wonder what would happen if you turn it on and then walk inside a building...

kitd• 11 years ago

rivers

I'm a rower so fortunately I won't have the obstacles issue. In fact, these could be great for rowing coaches who can put the controller in the boat then get close up to the rower/crew without needing oversized launches that wash everyone else down.

20 mins might be a problem, but I don't see it as insurmountable.

gambiter• 11 years ago

I'm very impressed by the capabilities. I've seen 'follow me' drones before, but I don't know if I've seen any that are waterproof or as compact as this. And the smiling face on the front is a nice touch.

It's still hard to part with my money (even at 50% off) when the ship date is next year though. I've been burned by various kickstarter projects that get delayed ad infinitum.

brk• 11 years ago

I've been burned by various kickstarter projects that get delayed ad infinitum.

Me too. I've decided that there are no new things that I need so much that I can't wait until the thing is actually shipping. In many cases I've been quite happy waiting until a v2 release when the early bugs and quirks are worked out.

Nadya3• 11 years ago

This is exactly why I've grown wary of pre-orders.

Even with huge savings for being "an early backer" - I've found I get more for my money (and sometimes anything for my money) if I wait until an improved "v2" ships a few months after initial release.

bezaorj• 11 years ago

From the FAQ: "What is your policy on refunds? If you decide to cancel your pre-order before Lily ships, we will provide a full refund to you."

raesene9• 11 years ago

Assuming of course that they don't run out of funds before they ship.

This isn't a slight on this project specifically but there is a risk that any project which isn't yet in production won't get that far...

jamie_ca• 11 years ago

And if you believe that, read up on the drama with https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/pirate3d/the-buccaneer-...

TLDR; during development of the printer, a number of things have changed (including a noticeable reduction in print volume). Refunds were offered August of last year, and the vast majority of refund requests are still pending (and currently half a month behind their own deadline for the latest update.

Not that I have any knowledge on whether the people behind Lily have better or worse communication and management skills, but just because they're happy to offer refunds doesn't mean they'll offer them promptly.

libc2• 11 years ago

I'm curious how it homes in on the tracker.

mdpopescu• 11 years ago

Apparently based on the hand device.

gr3yh47• 11 years ago

i think the question is what tech does it use do accomplish this

bradbeattie• 11 years ago

Without a human operator assessing risk, what's to stop the drone from accidentally flying into someone and cutting them up with its blades?

superuser2• 11 years ago

There is typically not enough force in the rotation of the blades (they are designed to be very light) to do more than hurt a little bit.

eclipxe2• 11 years ago

I can't speak for the Lily blades, but I have a couple of drones a little larger and the blades are harmless - they stop as soon as they detect obstruction and they are flexible/not sharp. It won't cut anyone.

asdfa1234• 11 years ago

I just got the DJI Phantom 3 and got hit by the blades after a collision. Sliced up my arms -- didn't require stitches, but 10 days later i still have evidence that the blades aren't totally harmless.

sean-duffy8• 11 years ago

There are plenty of gory images on forums of people who foolishly think this is the case and are proven otherwise!

lsaferite9• 11 years ago

I have NEVER seen a controller that would "stop as soon as they detect obstruction" like you say. In reality the flight controller is likely to do the opposite. Once it detects that the current speed of the blade is not enough to provide the desired lift, it will INCREASE the speed.

Telling people the blades are harmless is very irresponsible.

Zombieball2• 11 years ago

I see multiple comments saying that the blades are harmless, but a quick search through google photos seems to imply otherwise to me. Not to mention the force of this thing dropping on your head after it clips a nearby branch, or has a system failure.

I suppose the answer is that the owner needs to be responsible with its usage. The example footage seemed fairly reasonable use-cases (no bystanders).

outworlder5• 11 years ago

'harmless' drone blades are the exception, if they even exist. Note that drones designed to operate indoors have some form of protection for the blades (Parrot drone, for instance).

In addition, 'cheap' blades have sharp edges due to the manufacturing process. Some drone owners recommend sanding them to get rid of those, to minimize injuries.

lsaferite9• 11 years ago

Yeah, those blades are NOT harmless. They will cut you up on the thinner skin bit and do some serious bruising on the thicker skin. Also, anything around the head is asking for losing any eye or something else.

I've been building and flying quads for years now and Anything over the tiny indoor ones commands a LOT of respect from me due to experience.

The idea of these things autonomously following you is cool but a HUGE liability.

Unless they have some major obstacle avoidance on board they you basically could never safely use this around other people and honestly you shouldn't even use it around yourself.

eclipxe2• 11 years ago

Video made me want to have a more active life. I thought "cool!" but then I imagined my video output would be hours of me typing, browsing HN & Reddit.

javert• 11 years ago

Somebody should do a spoof video of their marketing video that shows exactly that.

cybrjoe• 11 years ago

Same concept: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VudWv9pQNdE

frik2• 11 years ago

Somebody should make Office Space 2. http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0151804/

tcdent• 11 years ago

Sad realizations are the best inspiration.

But really, working in internet tech, there's no excuse not to get out more often. Internet connections are everywhere and portable computing is absolutely viable.

nether• 11 years ago

google NOLS, outward bound, or "mountaineering course"

gadders• 11 years ago

Yeah. "It could follow me whilst I mow the lawn!"

rsync2• 11 years ago

One feature (or use case) that I would like a follow-me drone for is path-lighting.

That is, let's say I'm going on a walk in the dark and I don't want to use a flashlight or wear a headlamp - I've thought of a drone flying 8-10 feet up, a few feet ahead of me, shining a light to light my way.

Since the Lily people seem to be here answering HN comments, I wonder, how far off is your product from doing that ?

monk_e_boy3• 11 years ago

Duck tape and led torch (flashlight).

pron2• 11 years ago

You'd rather use an expensive, noisy drone that works for twenty minutes than a $15 headlamp that runs for hours?

semi-extrinsic10• 11 years ago

Sorry, what? How on earth would this be better than a headlamp, apart from the "look at my drone, my drone is amazing" part?

Gracana• 11 years ago

Well right now it's totally impractical, but if it floated silently, it would be pretty amazing. It could even light the path that you need to follow to help you navigate, and it wouldn't cause you to blind anyone you turned to talk to.

Nadya3• 11 years ago

"We choose not to do these things because they are practical, but because they are cool!"

CPLX3• 11 years ago

"look at my drone, my drone is amazing"

This is actually a fairly compelling reason to do things.

sgustard• 11 years ago

It can also carry my backpack. Like my own army of air sherpas.

rsync2• 11 years ago

I am inclined to use a headlamp for this almost always.

However, if you are walking with one or two other people, their light depends on the direction of your head. And also on your relatively close proximity to them.

I dunno. It has occurred to me several times.

outworlder5• 11 years ago

A 'headlamp' doesn't seem that useful. A 'search spotlight', like the police helicopters, could be more interesting.

cmstoken• 11 years ago

Wow. This is purely amazing! Definitely ordering one.

Svenstaro• 11 years ago

Please leave the scrolling behavior alone already!

ccozan2• 11 years ago

Nice. We were doing sailing last week and was quite hard to figure the whole activity with a GoPro, because I was focusing only on what I was doing, but my fellows trimming the sails were not that much in the video.

So I was thinking of a drone to film us from the side or above, but our skipper thought that no drone could handle the 15-20 knots with 30knts gusts winds we were sailing in.

imaginenore3• 11 years ago

There are definitely drones that can fly way faster than 30 knots, but they are not waterproof, and the ones I've seen are rather dumb, they don't follow you.

Here's a drone that can fly at 100 mph (87 knots):

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8p5uDf9i_Yc

dmix2• 11 years ago

That's oddly scary to watch for some reason. I'm not sure why?

Maybe due to the fact drones are primarily used for war at the moment...

ccozan2• 11 years ago

Well, is not about the speed of the _drone_ but being able to fly in a 20knts wind, with 30, maybe more, gusts. Which means in order to keep course it needs to know the wind speed and compensate. It's been done ( for auto-boats ) but I doubt this drone has this.

Last time on Hintertux at 3500m we had also strong winds while snowboarding. I'd give it a test nonetheless!

imaginenore3• 11 years ago

Damn, that's impressive. I want to know the top speed and what kind of wind it can handle.

snomad• 11 years ago

Just idle speculation, what happens when 30 follow-me drones are on the slopes at the same time? Will they all be able to avoid each other?

semi-extrinsic10• 11 years ago

The minute drones like these start shipping they'll be banned from all ski resort faster than you can say pow.

Also, with a top speed of 40 km/h this isn't able to keep up with anyone who's past the rookie stage skiing/snowboarding. So their marketing is very misleading, either by intention or because these guys don't know shit about skiing.

grecy7• 11 years ago

Anyone going faster than about 40km/h isn't really doing anything worth filming anyway, other than ski racers.

All the interesting stuff for filming on the slopes happens at relatively low speeds - park, moguls, jumps, butters, etc.

wellboy• 11 years ago

Like GoPro, just 10 times better?

naryad• 11 years ago

Related drone camera projects on kickstarter https://www.kickstarter.com/discover/advanced?term=camera+dr...

Zombieball2• 11 years ago

Some of these projects are crazy. They could be straight out of the South Park episode "Go Fund Yourself".

These campaigns are essentially people just asking you to buy them a drone:

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1430324424/drone-scouti...

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1802912897/drone-build-...

I wasn't aware campaigns of these sorts actually existed. Probably because I have always stuck to the front page of kickstarter.

listic• 11 years ago

Kickstarter has fewer projects of this kind than the other crowdfunding platforms.

I thought they are not allowing them completely, but apparently not. Yet in general, Kickstarter has higher quality content than other platforms.

jreed91• 11 years ago

I see someone like Gopro acquiring these guys

ygmelnikova• 11 years ago

"The new introspectiveness announced the demise of an established set of traditional faiths centred on work and the postponement of gratification, and the emergence of a consumption-oriented lifestyle ethic centred on lived experience and the immediacy of daily lifestyle choices."

If my generation was called the "me" generation, how would you describe this generation?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Me_generation

1ndex• 11 years ago

Like GoPro, just 10x better?

bennesvig• 11 years ago

Impressive. One typo in the video. It should say 120 fps at 720p. When I saw the text I wondered why anyone would film in 720p.

storitn• 11 years ago

Good point but storage capacity is a reason to use 720p

QuotedForTruth• 11 years ago

You're probably pretty unlikely to hit capacity when it can only fly for 20 minutes.

baddox6• 11 years ago

I don't do anything particularly serious, but I always shot my drone footage at 720p. It's quicker to copy onto my PC and quicker to upload to YouTube, and YouTube doesn't give you significantly higher quality on 1080p than 720p anyway.

codeshaman• 11 years ago

Would be interesting if you could have a bunch of these shooting from different angles, positioned so that they don't shoot each other.

Basically it's like having your own cameramen, so you can have spectacular camera angles without involving huge crews. This could be cool for TV shows, documentary and indie films.

grecy7• 11 years ago

The FAQ says they're working on having multiple cameras follow one subject.

web007• 11 years ago

Reminds me of http://flynixie.com/ - this one seems a lot more robust, less "snap a quick shot and come back".

bigtunacan• 11 years ago

This reminded me of the Sphero Selfie bot April Fool's joke.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZaR4X2iJo6M

efsavage• 11 years ago

If they had made this look like a Star Wars Probe Droid I believe the Internet may have actually broken.

fideloper• 11 years ago

Wonder what kind of payload it can carry is :D (I imagine that was part of a trade off for battery life)

aarondf• 11 years ago

Did anyone else get nervous when he threw it off the bridge?

"Come on Lily... power up, POWER UP!"

ChuckMcM• 11 years ago

Oh goody more vaporware for HN :-(. I get the concept, the ultimate selfie movie, but I fear for the future of youtube's fails collection :-)

sagivo• 11 years ago

the next generation of selfie

multibear• 11 years ago

Does this actually exist? Looks neat, but I want to know if preorder money is being used to develop the product that I'm preordering.

joeblau• 11 years ago

This is my number 1 concern. There are so many vaporware hardware projects now-a-days that I'm hesitant to pre-order. I feel like I'd rather just wait because by the time this is eventually released, there may be 2-3 other products that do the same thing, only better.

jkestner• 11 years ago

It's like Kickstarter, without the accountability of even the comments section!

alphonse23• 11 years ago

It's finally happened, the robots are here. The future we were all promised!

taternuts• 11 years ago

20 minute flying time is pretty bad - kind of delegates this to a "We want this picture" or "We need this shot" type of thing, not "Turn it on follow mode and let's see what we get after our walk/game/session" which would be a lot more useful

dharma111• 11 years ago

That's what the current energy density of lithium polymer batteries roughly is on a drone with this size props and weight. Not much that can be done aside from hoping for better battery tech!

sean-duffy8• 11 years ago

The video looks cool and everything, but I don't really understand the mentality around these kind of hands-off 'follow me' drones. If you want high-quality aerial cinematography, you need a lot more than just an autonomous drone in your general vicinity. Does this thing really have the intelligence needed to correctly frame and compose shots?

TkTech• 11 years ago

Why does it need to be high quality? Mom and dad aren't exactly pro photographers and they still enjoy taking pictures.

Just look at the design of the thing, it's clearly more for play than work.

sean-duffy8• 11 years ago

Mom and dad probably aren't into extreme sports or spending $500 on toys either, though. Which is why I think in a lot of these new drone ideas are disconnected from their target audience.

wehadfun2• 11 years ago

Awesome website

hougaard• 11 years ago

Thats totally the Mario 64 camera :)

kentf• 11 years ago

If you live in or near Toronto, I have started a timeshare for a Lily - https://www.tilt.com/campaigns/lily-drone-timeshare

OoTheNigerian• 11 years ago

You may want to put a better description in your tilt page. You are assuming everyone visiting it know what that device is.

bglazer4• 11 years ago

This is really, really cool.

That said, flying objects are inherently dangerous. I was at a bike race and a guy was following the pack with a DJI drone. One motor suddenly failed and the thing plummeted to the ground from 40ft and broke into a bunch of pieces. Luckily, it didn't hit anyone but it would have been a major incident if it had.

There's a lot of excitement about the cool, flashy features of these drones (following, waterproof, nice camera) but no assurance that it won't suddenly break and kill someone.

I want 99.9999% reliability and strong safety guarantees as a feature.

themodelplumber2• 11 years ago

Agreed. I'd be satisfied with nothing less than a mid-air explosion into fine particulate matter upon engine failure. wipes drone gook off face

rubicon33• 11 years ago

This is a big, big worry of mine. I'm considering doing commercial work with drones, and the major thing holding me back is the risk of injuring others with these things. The DJI Phantom, and Inspire, could kill someone if they fell from high enough. And I can tell you from personal experience, the software is simply not even CLOSE to bug-free enough for me to be worry free.

The more I think about it, the more I think, the risk of flying these things in populated places just isn't worth it.

themodelplumber2• 11 years ago

Seems like a good place to put Extreme Drone Crashes - Compilation 2015

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P9rnTk6FBzs

hehe

nine_k4• 11 years ago

I wonder if a heavier-than-air airship design would be safer. A balloon with helium or even hydrogen would let such a device fall slowly with engines off, and motors would let it fly up and maneuver around swiftly enough.

0xdeadbeefbabe2• 11 years ago

When I did RC planes, not even automated drones, the common repeated expression was, "spectators are almost always a bad idea."

Edit: which makes for a lonely hobby.

nine_k4• 11 years ago

I want 99.9999% reliability and strong safety guarantees as a feature of cars, bikes, and can openers, too.

Unfortunately, currently we probably make do with a few less nines on all these items.

reverend_gonzo• 11 years ago

Cars and bikes are directly controlled by humans, and in the case of an emergency, then can perform necessary maneuvers to reduce the damages. Not saying that always happens, but for the most part it does.

A drone that loses an engine falls out of the sky and lands on top of anything that is below it, and as of right now, there are no evasive maneuvers that can be executed. Especially for drones that are being used to record large public gatherings, things like multiple engines or parachutes should be absolutely mandatory, at least by the organizers of the event.

Needless to say, I'd bet it'll take one or two insurance claims until they are.

CamperBob2• 11 years ago

Great, no problem. Your next bike is going to cost $9,500.00. Will that be cash, credit, or PayPal?

stinos• 11 years ago

One motor suddenly failed

Maybe drones need to start to incorporate parachutes to slow down the fall in case of problems like these, or maybe even airbags to ease the crash. Not that it would make it 99.9999% reliable, but it should be better than nothing. And also won't completely thrash your drone when it crashes.

edit seems nine_k already commented with a similar idea

sean-duffy8• 11 years ago

Drones of this size are cheap enough that the extra weight and cost of engineering of safety devices generally isn't worth it. It's easier to fix or replace parts.

mhb• 11 years ago

http://www.digitaltrends.com/cool-tech/djis-dropsafe-parachu...

In order to make flying aerial drones safer, DJI, maker of popular quadcopters like the Phantom 2, is currently developing a parachute system called DropSafe, which can be deployed instantly in a case of emergeny

thenomad• 11 years ago

One parachute-for-drone is already being Kickstarted (at least).

But the issue is the effective minimum height for a parachute to be any use.

Istof2• 11 years ago

Quadcopters can also be saved if only one motor fails using only the 3 other motors and an algo: http://diydrones.com/profiles/blogs/new-algorithm-can-save-a...

japhyr• 11 years ago

But a drone with a parachute falling into a pack of racing bicyclists sounds like a really bad idea as well, doesn't it? The larger issue seems to be the possibility of drones crashing into people who are involved in an activity that requires 100% concentration.

lnanek2• 11 years ago

The problem is these drones often have prop guards that would make them a lot safer to fly, but you almost never see the prop guards on a drone do you? Any other safety gear would be stripped by operators just like that. It hurts their flight time and performance after all.

gnopgnip• 11 years ago

Couldn't the same be said for any technological advance. Waiting until anything is perfect is waiting too long.

bglazer4• 11 years ago

I agree. I just think reliability/safety should be the next areas of focus for multi-rotor manufacturers.

outworlder5• 11 years ago

Use drones with more than 4 rotors.

lsaferite9• 11 years ago

Exactly. If you are flying over people AT ALL you should be using an octocopter at least.

danmaz74• 11 years ago

Not to mention what will happen when I have drone, you have a drone, and our roads cross...

jakejake• 11 years ago

I was walking down Hollywood Blvd one day when they suddenly shut the street down for about 5 minutes to do a fly-by RC helicopter shot. This was a few years before lightweight drones and cameras were on the market and this helicopter reminded me of a flying lawnmower! As it whizzed by me and thousands of other people, I was pretty sure it could easily have taken off a limb.

I have a fairly cheap drone with a built-in camera and, no doubt, it could cause a scratch or bruise if it hit you at full speed, but luckily it's nothing like they used to be.

relet2• 11 years ago

That is until your cheap drone hits a paraglider, or other light vehicle that is actually allowed to operate in this air space.

In most legislations I am aware of, RC flight requires an operator to be in control of the drone.

dba7dba• 11 years ago

I believe NYT carried an article last year about an RC chopper flyer who got beheaded by his own chopper's main rotor. It happened in the Central Park. It was a large RC Chopper and something went wrong and he ended up get killed. He apparently liked to do some dangerous stunts apparently...

However I would think these drones' propellers are shorter thus less dangerous? Any ideas?

branchan2• 11 years ago

They still make those same gas-powered RC copters. The ones you have are designed to be slower, low powered electrics.

DonHopkins2• 11 years ago

HyperBlimps are a lot safer, silent and mellower photography platforms than drones. Not quite as portable, and you need a tank of helium, of course. But equipped with solar panels they can stay up indefinitely, and built with transparent plastic they can be almost invisible in the sky.

http://hyperblimp.com/

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xqJYhTvBSu8

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5K7edXU401o

dharma111• 11 years ago

How do they handle wind?

techaddict009• 11 years ago

I was flying drone in my street in India and it got stuck in electric cables (we have cables on poles).

I just got nervous and called few people and cracked down the drone.

Then decided never play with them in domestic living area.

windexh8er4• 11 years ago

As someone who has flown RC drones and heli for the better part of 5+ years now I generally find that there are 3 camps: 1) people who have never flown and assume the worst and often want unrealistic "guarantees" (see above), 2) those who fly, fly often and fly as safe as can be "guaranteed", 3) those who fly in an unsafe manner due to inexperience or just general carelessness.

I've always tried to fly responsibly at all times. I am cognizant of weather, people/pets, surroundings and right-of-way in the sky. Nothing in life is guaranteed 99.9999% of the time. Is it OK for me to levy a 99.9999% guarantee on you, that you drive perfect and responsible (no radio, no food, no phone, no talking, no distractions - period)? No. That's not life in general - we don't live in a bubble. Well at least the general population doesn't.

I am fine with sane safety measures put forth... Certifications, registrations, etc. But this is a hobby like many others. People own many kinds of recreational hobby gear that can endanger the operator or surrounding people - yet, they're accepted because people think they understand them. Most don't, however, understand simple engine operation - yet drive cars.

All mechanical vehicles have the guarantee to fail at some point or another and, yes, someone is 100% guaranteed to get hurt at some point in time. But, please don't ruin my hobby because you choose not to understand it.

bglazer4• 11 years ago

I fall into camp 3. I have a DJI Phantom that I crashed into my neighbor's yard due to my own incompetence and inexperience.

I'm not arguing for draconian policy measures. I just want manufacturers to focus on and market reliability and safety features. It's a win-win for users and manufacturers.

Manufacturers are clearly aiming for these drones to be everywhere and for everyone to own one. With many, many people flying for the first time everyday there are going to be accidents. If manufacturers can reduce the harm caused by these accidents then they'll have a much easier path for FAA regulations and public acceptance.

For users, they get the ease of mind that crashes won't be catastrophic for their drone and a reduced chance that they'll inadvertently hurt someone.

rahmaniacc• 11 years ago

But you do require a license to drive around a car, while this "hobby" does not require anything of that sort. Which is why it is questioned a lot. I belong to camp 2 as well, but i can understand why it might be a cause of concern for many.

necrodawg• 11 years ago

I'll take a drone that flies itself over one controlled by a human any day. Humans suck at this stuff. It should be possible to make it very safe if it's automated.

NickNameNick• 11 years ago

I've been flying RC for ~16 years, on and off, and the rules for operating an RC aircraft safely have always been the same.

DO NOT FLY NEAR PEOPLE.

It's that simple. No functioning machine can ever be inherently safe, safety is the result of continuous exercise of good judgement. When operating a large nitro powered helicopter, featuring 700mm long carbon fibre knives that spin at 2000rpm, controlled by an imperfect operator, through an imperfect electronics system, powered by an unreliable motor I am aware that it is an intrinsically dangerous object, and I only fly it in controlled areas, without bystanders who could get hurt.

And it annoys me to no end when I see some idiot crashing his DJI into a building (no flying within 400m of a built-up area - don't fly near people), or a new guy with a t-rex or raptor helicopter flying near people in a park in the middle of town (Don't fly near people!) Or someone who should know better like a model aero club member flying over the pits or the viewing area or the carpark (don't fly near/over people!)

I actually want something like the machine described in the article, because I want to be able to film myself skiing, without the horribly cliched helmet cam, but unless I can get something small enough that it CANT hurt someone in a collision, or something with very robust collision avoidance, I can't use it. Ideally both, because even with perfect collision avoidance, something else could still break.

zaroth• 11 years ago

Driving my car to work seems inherently much more dangerous than operating this drone, and we've found reasonable ways to insure against those accidents.

Life is inherently dangerous, and almost every technical innovation is first met with objections with how it will cause loss of life. The danger of accidental personal injury from drone is probably an order of magnitude lower than the danger of accidental personal injury from discarded banana peels.

I want 99.9999% reliability and strong safety guarantees as a feature.

Then you want the technology not to exist, which I think is a terrible shame. It's like crying "fire hazard" around a Tesla. If you want a hobby device to rant against, try scooters, those things are much more deadly and rightly deserve to be taxed and regulated. [1]

The Lily drone if it actually performs anything like that video, is pure awesome, and absolutely the future. If it can be made quiet enough and compact enough it replaces everything from the cinematographer at your wedding, to the selfie.

It also probably looks good in black with a nice white pin-stripe, with the letters N-Y-P-D, floating around Times Square, and running no-knock warrants. 10 - 15 generations along actually, this thing is quite terrifying, for completely different reasons than 'OMG it will fall on me'.

[1] http://www.nationaljournal.com/health-care/the-most-dangerou...

electic• 11 years ago

Can't really find this on the site but does it have any sort of collision avoidance? What if I am running on a sidewalk and it runs into a tree branch above?

throwawaymsft• 11 years ago

I want 99.9999% reliability and strong safety guarantees as a feature.

I take it you don't drive, or allow yourself to be driven, right?

emiliobumachar• 11 years ago

If the whole drone fleet can be made safer than the percentage of cars that drones replace (e.g. by making deliveries), than a case can be made for drones on safety grounds alone, giving zero weight to convenience and economics.

guelo• 11 years ago

Why don't these things carry automatic emergency parachutes?

zo1• 11 years ago

Optional add-on:

http://www.dji.com/product/dropsafe

kenrikm2• 11 years ago

Cars kill 40k people per year in the US. Lets not forget "drones" have been around for 50+ years they were previously called "RC Helicopters" and "RC Airplanes" and have a pretty darn good safety record.

andyl• 11 years ago

"I want 99.9999% reliability and strong safety guarantees"

99.9999%

Things are amazing, and nobody's happy. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uEY58fiSK8E

atmosx• 11 years ago

Nobody is happy because these things mean nothing, honestly. Who cares about the credit card(s)?

There are people starving to death on the one side of the planet while there are others who don't know what to do with their money on the other. I'm not saying everyone should be driving Ferrari's but in 2015 there shouldn't be people without shelter, food or basic medical safety lying around. If we as a society solve THIS problem then, everybody will much more happy than it is today.

imakesnowflakes• 11 years ago

I wonder if it could it be possible to have a canister of compressed hydrogen that will inflate a balloon large enough to slow down the fall, if the acceleration goes beyond a certain threshold, like .5g or something?

dheera• 11 years ago

I'd agree with you in that drones are pretty dangerous in cities. But for the case of filming extreme sports, like bike races or skiing, the sport is likely inherently MUCH more dangerous than whatever could happen because of the drone, especially if the drone isn't directly above the athletes. Your bike/skiis/etc. aren't anywhere close to 99.9999% safe.

branchan2• 11 years ago

That is pretty unreasonable. Are 2-ton trucks and cars dangerous on the open road? Are they 99.9999% reliable?

euphemize• 11 years ago

The max speed is 40 k/h - I'm no expert cyclist, but what happens when you go 60, 70, 80 down a long hill? Can the Lily catch up to you, and up until how far? What happens if it can't?

dharma111• 11 years ago

It would get left behind. It looked like there is a little handheld GPS/wifi beacon used for follow me. My guess is RTL (return to launch) as a failsafe once you get outside wifi range

mmrasheed• 11 years ago

Finally a drone with elegance and purpose. A truly consumer oriented drone. Like it. Will wait for the v2.0 :)

evo_92• 11 years ago

It's impressive, no doubt, but I wonder about the actual utility of the device.

My main concerned is the 20m battery life/record time - that is pretty limiting. If I were to use this to record myself snowboarding (like the video shows), that would be a problem. Here in Colorado a typical blue rated mountain run is easily 20m from top to bottom, esp. if you aren't gunning it the whole way. When I ride alone I can maybe go top to bottom in slightly under 20m but I'm flying and really pushing it the whole time, I wonder if the drone could even keep up in that situation (speed would be over 25mph almost the entire time).

Pretty cool but I personally think there is much bigger market for a device designed to record kids playing hockey, basketball, soccer etc... imagine a tripod that tracks your kid, that would be way way more killer and useful for most people and probably a ton cheaper as you could use a smartphone as the camera.

Technically it's impressive as hell, I just don't know about how practical is in actual use.

JeffL• 11 years ago

There is a tripod that automatically tracks you. I get ads for it on YouTube all the time. http://www.gizmag.com/soloshot-automated-tripod/25453/

evo_92• 11 years ago

Thanks, that's an awesome product, never seen this before! Very cool.

More info here: http://shop.soloshot.com/

baddox6• 11 years ago

I haven't been able to figure out how these work. GPS alone wouldn't give the resolution and responsiveness required. It doesn't seem to be CV-based either, since there's often no line of sight of the tracking device. Perhaps the tripod has two directional signal strength sensors so it can tell if the beacon is to the left or right, and move in order to keep the beacon centered.

sigmar• 11 years ago

That 25 mph is not all horizontal, and any downward movement would mean less power drain from the drone. Though I'd definitely agree that the battery life is a pretty big problem.

I'm sure they will also sell a Lily branded external battery that can be kept in your backpack and used to recharge it.

nck4222• 11 years ago

Maybe, but the FAQ states the current battery isn't replaceable. So it seems more likely they'd have to come out with an entire new unit in order to have external batteries.

It doesn't seem like something they're interested in for the launch.

lsaferite9• 11 years ago

Multicopters have this time limitation in general. They don't have great flight times due to the power density of the batteries. It's the main limiter of the platforms really.

david-given• 11 years ago

I had to read your post several times that by 'm' you meant minutes. Without that it makes the Colorado ski resorts seem a little less impressive.

DirtyAndy• 11 years ago

A bigger issue to me is what do you do with Lily after it has run out of battery. I don't think I want to carry it for the rest of the day on the ski fields, mountain biking, trail running or anything else, it is fairly cumbersome. And I wonder how tough it is when it is in a back pack and I fall and land on it.

Very cool device and it would have a lot of practical uses, but not sure it will ever be that useful for the masses.

Zigurd• 11 years ago

20 minutes should be plenty for skiing, and should cover more than one descent in most cases.

The airspace is going to be pretty hilarious at Killington on a weekends if half the people with GoPros upgrade to drones.

legohead• 11 years ago

My rock climbing friends and I have been watching the drone market. 20m in rock climbing just wont cut it at all :\

cpks2• 11 years ago

A bigger issue is that drone power consumption goes down as they go faster. Even if 20m at 25MPH is fine, you'll actually get less than that if you go slower. Hovering uses a lot of power.

jonjenk2• 11 years ago

"When I ride alone I can maybe go top to bottom in slightly under 20m but I'm flying and really pushing it the whole time, I wonder if the drone could even keep up in that situation (speed would be over 25mph almost the entire time)."

Where do you ski? 20 min at 25 mph implies an 8.3 mile long run.

basseq• 11 years ago

The FAA doesn't appear to have any guidance on automated flying: e.g., it doesn't say anything (at least in a 1m search) about a human pilot. (I was surprised by this.)

So long as you stay within recreational use guidelines (e.g., don't upload videos to YouTube), you should be fine.

titanomachy6• 11 years ago

Why would uploading to YouTube necessarily be a problem? Most people don't make profit from YouTube uploads.

dharma111• 11 years ago

There are a lot of drones that can do pretty much all of these things already, or you can build your own using an open source flight controller like ardupilot.

The main job here (which they have done well) is turning it into a mass consumer product, easy to use package. DJI has done a pretty good job for prosumers on it but this is another notch up.

Like the waterproofing!

Video suggests a higher level of autonomy than I think they have right now (obstacle avoidance, automatic landing on your hand) but a year might be enough to cram it in there.

I think we will see many more consumer drones like this.

srameshc• 11 years ago

Very cool. I always thought mounting a camera on a drone is the way to take photos when out but this is totally amazing the way it follows you.

ape4• 11 years ago

What if you throw it off a bridge only to realize that its out of charge.

zxcvcxz• 11 years ago

Are there lightweight drones that can fly continuously with just solar power? If not how far off are we?

digitalpacman• 11 years ago

Their video of "actual footage" is 100% edited after they shot it. That is NO way actual unedited footage.

Also. https://store.3drobotics.com/products/iris

guruparan18• 11 years ago

When I first saw, it reminded me of the 1997 Flubber house robot. For its size, Lily takes just video. It would be good if there is some more smartness and can be used indoors. Just like the house robot.

rebootthesystem3• 11 years ago

I've been designing, building and flying model airplanes and later helicopters since I was ten years old. I've always flown in the context of a registered flying club and carry one million dollars insurance for my activity.

I continue to be horrified by what is happening with these multicopters. People fly them outside of controlled environments and with a total lack of consideration towards others or their property.

The vast majority of these things are cheap hobby-grade toys with laughable "safety" features. I own RC helicopters costing in excess of $3,000 and use a radio that costs well over $1,000. I still consider them dangerous toys not to be flown outside of club controlled environments.

What sucks is this morons are going to kill somebody and this will ruin the hobby for those of us who have been responsible flyers for decades.

sprkyco2• 11 years ago

While acknowledging the fact that drones being operated by "morons" do not amount to safe. Could you fill me in on what safety features a 3k copter offers over one of these smaller and arguably less threatening drones. Googled a couple "high dollar" copters most seemed to be in range of ~4kg range with large fixed carbon fiber blades as opposed to (in this particular case) a 3 pound object with collapsible polycarbonate blades. Honestly seeing this trend of "automated" drones the only human controlled factor of idiocy would be removed in part due to the automated nature of this drone, this would seem to favor a trend towards safer operations.

rebootthesystem3• 11 years ago

I think you missed my point. Real model flight enthusiasts will only fly their birds at RC clubs. Clubs impose structure, safety rules, etc.

In other words, even if you are flying total crap the probability of hurting anyone or causing property damage is greately reduced.

To anser the other part of your question. A $3K heli has significantly better electronics and mechanics when compared to something like a DJI quad. And, of course, there's the fact that it has excellent autorotation with full control on the way down.

Yet, again, the point is we don't fly over people, roads or buildings and we have far more experience flying than most drone buyers.

dsap5432• 11 years ago

Pretty cool..! You need a british guy in your team that can pronounce Aluminum like Johny Ive and you sell like crazy.

amolgupta• 11 years ago

what if you realize its out of battery after you throw it off. Starting the rotors before throwing would make the user feel more confident.

ep1034• 11 years ago

It would be cool if the remote in your pocket had a "Call 911!" button. So like, if I was out snowboarding, and saw an avalanche coming, I probably wouldn't be able to call 911. But this little drone is a good deal above me and the avalanche/murderer/shark/whatever, it could call 911 for me, and when they recovered it, it would have video of what happened to me. It could even fly towards a preset location (known ranger station), broadcasting along the way if there is no cell signal available.

comrh• 11 years ago

A fun idea but in an avalanche the chances of you reaching your pocket before being entombed in snow is pretty low.

bonestamp2• 11 years ago

Assuming you were still alive under the snow for a brief period of time you could hit the button then.

catshirt• 11 years ago

obviously this is a less general approach; but i'd think the software could detect with reasonable certainty when it's subject was suddenly covered by snow.

flurp• 11 years ago

A drone could detect loss of communication with the pocket device (snow or falling into the ocean should be enough to do that) and start some recovery/emergency sequence. E.g. stop + try pinging the device, if there's still no reply automatically call 911 with an emergency and GPS location. Is there a 911 REST API? :)

bicx• 11 years ago

So basically the drone version of Lassie.

ep1034• 11 years ago

I was thinking of the drones in the Culture series, but yeah, basically!

josephjrobison• 11 years ago

Agreed. I also want a drone that can carry and emergency supply kit and drop it to me like Katniss if I get into trouble. If I'm running through the Grand Canyon and get bit by a snake it can drop/deliver snake anti-venom to me. Could also go over to a ranger or resupply station and bring other supplies.

mod4• 11 years ago

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y-rEI4bezWc

grecy7• 11 years ago

In an avalanche you can't call anyone to save you. It will take them too long to reach you, and you'll suffocate before they can reach you.

The chances of survival drop severely after 15 minutes of burial.

The only people that can save you in an Avalanche are the people in your group.

Source: Canadian ski patroller.

tobltobs• 11 years ago

But you will have a video of your death.

tajen• 11 years ago

What if the drone has a 2-3m acuracy of the position? At least in ski resorts the bystanders can immediately rescue the person. Off tracks, it often happens that 1 person is aside of the snow corridor.

ep1034• 11 years ago

Maybe avalanche wasn't the best example, but still, a robotic lassie seems like it would have uses!

icc97• 11 years ago

The drone would hopefully though still be hovering above you so would help any people in your group find you faster

Crito• 11 years ago

I thought they already had these specifically for avalanches, minus the drone. Some sort of tracking beacon that you can carry around, that will lead them to your body.

ep1034• 11 years ago

yeah, but this could be more general use case, like a robotic lassie!

titanomachy6• 11 years ago

They do, and if you ski the alpine backcountry without one then you must have a death wish.

Avalanche safety is one use case where, as with defibrillators or hospital pagers, I think people will continue for a long time to use simple, rugged, and purpose-built devices with very low probability of failure rather than introducing a million new failure modes by using e.g. a cell phone or flying drone.

pranade• 11 years ago

Awesome stuff, guys!

yuncun• 11 years ago

Hey Henry! We had calculus BC together at Westview. Congratulations, this looks great. -Eric S.

GigabyteCoin2• 11 years ago

Just a personal gripe, but I hate it when websites don't work without the pointless www. in front of their domain.

I just text a friend to visit https://lily.camera and he'll never see it, because it doesn't exist.

jcromartie• 11 years ago

lily.camera redirects

adamzochowski• 11 years ago

http does. https doesn't.

chrischen• 11 years ago

While I agree they should make www redirect, its not pointless. If you serve sub domains or plan on serving them, www as your primary helps differentiate cookies.

GigabyteCoin2• 11 years ago

Point taken. But I doubt this sales page will be implementing subdomains anytime soon, if ever.

dpark2• 11 years ago

its not pointless

It is entirely pointless to not redirect. There's no reason the URL posted shouldn't redirect to the www version.

ricardobeat• 11 years ago

List of previous similar products:

https://www.airdog.com

http://hexoplus.com

https://store.3drobotics.com/products/iris

http://www.airmind.co

OrwellianChild• 11 years ago

Thanks for these! Prices/status for reference:

           Status       Release    Price
           -----------  ---------  ------------
  AirDog*  Pre-Order    Q3 2015    $1,295
  HEXO+*   Pre-Order    Sept 2015  $1,299
  IRIS+*   Available    Now        $750
  Mind4*   Kickstarter  Failed     $900-$1,489
  Lily     Pre-Order    Feb 2016   $519-$1,019

  *Note that all but Lily require a $300 GoPro camera.

Price ranges are for Pre-Order vs. Post-Ship pricing.

EDIT: Found Lily release date...

r00fus2• 11 years ago

Amazing. Lily is like half the price of the rest. Where did you get the $ price? Right now it's $500, no real options, right?

The price just seems unbelievably low compared to all the other options.

rasz_pl3• 11 years ago

They dont require a gopro, you can use $75 Xiaomi that is ~equal to 3+silver. Lily stated video parameters match xiaomi perfectly.

frecar• 11 years ago

One more option: http://www.staaker.com/

alexchamberlain• 11 years ago

I'm not a web designer: just wondering, how does someone go about designing a website with such animations as you scroll? I know there are a lot about these days; are they all custom, or is there some tool chucking all these out?

vonklaus• 11 years ago

with anything there are a lot of ways to do it. This is sort of a parralax type of animation. There are many librarys that handle this, but one way is to (at a certain place on the site) decouple the scroll from actually moving further down the page, and use it as the keyframe engine for the animation.

This is a basic overview, but if you are interested google keywords like "parralax" and "parralax animation"

jharig23• 11 years ago

At 10"x10"x3", you're going to need really big pockets!

siavosh• 11 years ago

Dawn of the personal drone/robot/servants. I'm wondering if it's able to navigate around tree branches or corners without slamming into anything as opposed to the wide open spaces they show.

CodeSheikh2• 11 years ago

Correction Lily - Quadcopter camera

It is annoying that everyone started calling Quadcopter a "drone", which is a very generic term. Flippin non-tech marketing peeps. -_-

oaktowner• 11 years ago

I don't think that's a correction. You are being more specific, but Lily is definitely "an unmanned aircraft or ship that can navigate autonomously"...which is what a drone is[1].

[1] http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/drone

CodeSheikh2• 11 years ago

Since you have referenced dictionary.com, a very authentic source for tech terminology, I would like to argue why a plane is not called "vessel" in everyday usage?! http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/vessel

jjwiseman3• 11 years ago

I applied to YC with a speech interface for drones, one application of which would be hands-free operation of selfie drones like this. E.g., if you're mountain biking you probably don't want to take one hand off the handlebars and try to press the button on the remote that means "Switch to leading shot". Instead, you'd just talk into your earbud: "Switch to leading shot" or "Climb to 100 feet", or more complex cinematographic instructions like "Pan from me to tracker B"

Especially in the extreme sports selfie video genre, hands-free operation would be a big advantage.

crimsonalucard5• 11 years ago

Reliability needs to be way higher then what we're currently seeing with google now and siri due to the inherit danger of what ur controlling.

jjwiseman3• 11 years ago

For specific domains, like drone control, you can achieve much better accuracy then you typically see in "dictation"-style speech recognition. You can use a statistical language model that represents the things you're most likely to hear.

For example, Google & Siri kind of need to be able to handle anything I throw at them: "What is Ke$ha's new album?" "What year was the Hardy Boys book 'Hunting For Hidden Gold' written?" They may use a language model that favors grammatical language, that is: "What is Ke$ha" is a more likely speech recognition hypothesis than "What hiss kush ball", but they still need a big model to represent that.

For drone control, you have much more constrained language, which helps recognition accuracy significantly. The model can tell the recognizer that if it heard "Go <unsure> 100 feet" that the <unsure> word is most likely to be a direction like forward/back/left/right/up/down, and not "neutrino".

It's a lot like the way that Norvig uses n-grams to illustrate writing a spelling corrector: http://norvig.com/ngrams/ch14.pdf Having a model lets you fix errors in the input.

Having constrained language and a good model is often critical to creating a successful speech interface.

jdiez172• 11 years ago

Interesting idea. I think the biggest challenge would be to filter out noise (i.e wind blowing on the microphone). But in a limited domain such as this you can do aggressive filtering and get fairly good results in very harsh environments.

Really cool idea. Now I have a strange urge to break out the ArduCopter.

jjwiseman3• 11 years ago

I have an early test at https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uhBa11gdbeU

rblkenny• 11 years ago

Great, more trash in our fields and streams.

redindian75• 11 years ago

Tweeted Lily support about Obstacle Avoidance. Sadly no - it doesn't steer clear of electric wires, branches and buildings.

hustle600• 11 years ago

I'm going to start building 'No Drones' signs and selling them to ski resorts in anticipation of how annoying these will be when every 13 year old has one.

jmilloy• 11 years ago

I can't help but imagine a time when, instead of smartphones or wearables, it's not uncommon to have a little drone that flies around after you.

akshatpradhan• 11 years ago

The target market is vloggers. They would love a device that automatically videotapes what they're saying as they're walking around Boston Common or somewhere else.

MichaelTieso• 11 years ago

Shared on Facebook and sadly showed up as "Home page - Lily" with no meta description. If you're looking for more people to share and click, try fixing your meta tags so when people share it shows full a good teaser of the product is.

todd3834• 11 years ago

I have wanted this for so long. I wish it had longer flight time but I still orderd this immediately, before the trailer even finished

DEinspanjer2• 11 years ago

Awesome, but my experience with current-gen pseudo-autonomous UAVs, these questions immediately come to mind:

Can it follow you around the corner of a building without clipping it?

Can it avoid bumping into a tree?

Will it climb above the trees to follow you through a wooded area?

Can it avoid getting tangled in an overhead utility line?

gtirloni2• 11 years ago

https://www.lily.camera/terms

Purchaser agrees to stay clear of anything in the range of the UAV, or anything it could possibly collide with such as power lines, buildings, other UAVs etc.

Zezima• 11 years ago

Where would we be without you? Reading the terms like we all should be doing!

Grue3• 11 years ago

As if there is a place where it can't possibly collide with anything! Oh, your Lily divebombed into the ground? Well, you shouldn't have launched it near the ground!

Shivetya• 11 years ago

all the more reasons while these devices are so cool this just entry level gear. drones are not going to win acceptance until they do what you want and stay out of your way and out of harm.

DarkUranium3• 11 years ago

Here is another one for you: If any of the above fails, what about spare parts availability?

EvanAnderson• 11 years ago

A step along the way to the drone cameras from Bruce Sterling's "The Artificial Kid" coming to real life.

Tloewald4• 11 years ago

This seems kind of implausibly cheap for what it's offering.

titanomachy6• 11 years ago

$500 preorder vs $1000 later.

So either 1) they expect you to pay more later 2) they are selling the preorders at a loss (woo venture funding! do things that don't scale!) or 3) their markup will be huge (>100%) when they start making regular sales.

csel• 11 years ago

What happens when you have multiple lily's up at the same time? Is there any collision prevention?

thrownaway2424• 11 years ago

One more way for narcissists to annoy naturalists.

digisth• 11 years ago

This is a great step. Things I'd like to see:

- Real obstacle avoidance so it can work in urban areas so people could do news / tour guide broadcasts like some people are doing on Periscope these days. Rather than holding your phone up in front of you (which gives you a pretty shaky video), you could just tell it to follow you while you talk to it

- A sliding viewfinder that stays on your "face side" so you could see exactly what is being shot at all times.

- The ability to stream the video to another device (like your phone attached to an external HDD) would make it so you could shoot longer form stuff - maybe even complete solo movies, like some of those Assassin's Creed-esque parkour videos.

steven2012• 11 years ago

Sorry, but I'll believe it when I see it being sold in stores. This has Kickstarter syndrome written all over it. Meaning, a really cool idea and flashy video, but it's in "pre-order" and there's no guarantee when it will actually ship. And even when it does, I'd rather wait for reviews to tell me how good it works rather than trust a marketing video.

edmack• 11 years ago

I've wanted this for ages for run filming! Excited to see if tracking works well.........

riq_• 11 years ago

Nice concept, I want something like that... but it says "shipping Feb 2016"... lot of things can happen during these 9 months.

genieyclo• 11 years ago

Reminds me of the Kino from Stargate.

moe• 11 years ago

I'm a bit worried about that "throwing start".

What happens when the battery is low or when I give it a tad too much spin?

"Whoops, did I just lob my $500 gadget into solid concrete?"

Well, I suppose it probably has safer take-off modes, too. Can't wait until they shrink it down to tennis ball size.

DarkUranium3• 11 years ago

There exist plenty of tiny camera drones, except those aren't autonomous. An advantage is that crashes are less prone to damage (less mass => less momentum and kinetic energy), and if they do get damaged, repairs are [typically] far cheaper.

I don't know about battery life, though, and that might be a large disadvantage of those. Also, fitting a GPS unit into one might be tricky.

kelvin0• 11 years ago

This will truly revolutionize the selfie. I am joking!! Seriously this is truly going to sell like hot cakes. The film industry would probably love to use these more ... Good job guys!

soheil• 11 years ago

Love the demo video, any idea what company/person did this?

thomasfl• 11 years ago

The most exciting new products on HN is hardware in combination with software. it used to be mostly software and websites.

benpink• 11 years ago

Here's a video of it being demonstrated for a Guardian journalist in Central Park: http://www.theguardian.com/technology/video/2015/may/12/test...

stevewilhelm• 11 years ago

I predict Silicon Valley lacrosse, soccer, baseball, football, and swimming leagues will find it necessary to include language in their 'spectator code of conduct' bylaws that restricts the use of these kind of drones at tournaments and games.

I suspect some sports will allow limited use during practice and scrimmages for training purposes.

vladgur• 11 years ago

Since this looks like a drone that automatically follows you, how does it negotiate with other drones that are around them.

What if there is another person snowboarding on that slope with Lily? And he/she slides close to you?

sunilkumarc• 11 years ago

Loved the video. Really nice :)

supercoder• 11 years ago

Reminds me of http://flynixie.com

jmboling• 11 years ago

what happens when 10 skiers all release their lily cameras at the same time and womp it down a slope at variable speeds ?

evan_• 11 years ago

This looks cool but $999 is a lot of money for something I might use a couple times a year. Maybe I'll be able to rent one sometime.

wehrkeoruw• 11 years ago

How fast can this go? Can I throw it out my car window and go down a street? A highway? What does it do when it's lost the homing signal -- hover? Land?

bottled_poe• 11 years ago

Perhaps a stupid question - but where are the collision avoidance sensors?

gbajson• 11 years ago

Lily looks cool - but flies where it wants ;)

Is it possible to control it manually using standard RC controller and RC modules (i.e. Frsky)?

binoyxj• 11 years ago

If this Guardian video is any hint, this drone needs to be worked on to make it perform like advertised https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=td5fZhGNz9M

fuzzywalrus• 11 years ago

I was ready to throw my money at this until I saw this. As a developer, I know the pains of alpha and beta demonstrations but this now seems more like a kickerstarter project than finished product. Getting this off the ground (pun intended) looks like its quite aways off.

organsnyder• 11 years ago

Extremely well done on the marketing. I watched the video with my 2- and 2-year-old boys. After we watched it a few times (we all wanted to watch it again and again), the 4yo was talking about the features of the drone ("It has a camera!" "It lands on your hand!" "It's waterproof!"), while the 2yo kept repeating "Want one!" "Want one!" (which I don't think I was saying out loud myself).

I wouldn't preorder one at this stage (even if I had a spare $500 lying around), but this is one of the coolest gadgets I've seen in a while, and the marketing is top-notch.

oneiric• 11 years ago

It seems like the propellers get close to each other. Usually quadcopter propellers are spaced out much more than this to reduce vibrations. Does anyone know if they do something special?

guiomie• 11 years ago

Potential acquisition for gopro?

hienchu• 11 years ago

I like ZANO more actually :)

farzher• 11 years ago

I found this in the Youtube video comments:

Currently, Lily does not have any obstacle avoidance capabilities. We have found that most outdoor activities do not need obstacle avoidance because Lily can follow the user's path. But again, there are no guarantees that Lily will not hit anything while it is following you.

"no obstacle avoidance" o_O

dang• 6 years ago

The submitted URL was https www . lily . camera.

We've taken it out above because it now redirects to a porn site.

Lily – Drone camera

Related Stories