Tesla recalls all cybertrucks for faulty accelerator pedals

https://techcrunch.com/2024/04/19/tesla-cybertruck-throttle-accelerator-pedal-stuck/

by sarimkx • 2 years ago

451 554 2 years ago

techcrunch.com

tommoor• 2 years ago

This is a good explainer video: https://twitter.com/garageklub/status/1779571445930324456

jejeyyy772• 2 years ago

interesting. fortunately seems like a simple fix.

ProjectArcturis• 2 years ago

At least they've only sold 3800 so far. But what are the odds this is the only thing that will need to be recalled?

tehlike2• 2 years ago

First year of New models from any manufacturer will have issues to iron out

bitcharmer2• 2 years ago

Sure but what calibre of issues should you expect? Surely not faulty pedals causing the vehicle to accelerate.

MBCook4• 2 years ago

First year Ford Mustang Mach E: can confirm.

xyst• 2 years ago

Tesla is losing money on every truck sold at this point. The recall is just another multimillion dollar deficit on the books now.

Whether this product line will be sustainable (or exist) 1 year from now is unlikely.

Lackluster sales. Poor public perception. Truck would likely need another overhaul (more money burned) and another 1-2 year loss leader phase to test the market, and get their build processes updated to scale.

ZuLuuuuuu2• 2 years ago

Tesla could have owned the entire EV truck market currently, if they didn't choose to make a truck that required a big amount of R&D and is hard to build. Why Tesla chose such a path completely baffles me.

Tesla's mission was "to accelerate the world's transition to sustainable energy" which they were doing by making solid and affordable EVs and electric storage solutions.

One of the biggest reasons of the success of Model S was because it had a modern but conventional design unlike the other toy-like EV cars on the market at the time. Model S proved that it is possible to build a modern conventional EV car that people can buy.

It feels like Cybertruck is coming from a completely different mission statement. Actually most of the decisions they have been taking for the last 2-3 years feel like it.

brandonagr24• 2 years ago

How do you arrive at lackluster sales conclusion? They are obviously just production limited as they scale up a new line. Can you place an order today and buy a cybertruck? No there is still a year+ long wait list of people wanting to buy.

hnbad• 2 years ago

It's literally the meme truck. That meme has sailed and died. People will still hoot and holler when they spot you driving one in the wild but that's different from people wanting to pay the steep sticker price for what the car actually is.

I don't see moms picking up their kids with these trucks. I don't see people using them for camping. The unnamed companion ATV seems to have been recalled for not being roadsafe and doesn't seem to be coming back any time soon.

It's possible there will be a revised Cybertruck eventually but this thing has so many design flaws and underdelivers on so many promises (e.g. "you could use it as a boat" when taking it to the carwash voids your warranty) that it's not mass market compatible. Heck, it's not even possible to make it street legal in Europe without massive changes.

As far as Musk's ventures go, the Cybertruck is up there with the Hyperloop in terms of what it is and what was promised. Remember the unprovoked throwaway claim that it'll let you use it as a source for compressed air to drive pneumatic tools? Or the talk about selling a version of it to the military as an APC?

ripjaygn31• 2 years ago

Tesla is losing money on every truck sold at this point

Is it just me or many people don't seem to understand fixed costs vs. variable costs that I learnt about in high school while growing up in the third world?

Don't people have to take Econ 101 in the USA or whatever the equivalent is in their countries? Or is it optional.

Not even going to bring up "advanced" concepts like COGS that I know about while being a CS major and never taking an economics course.

What you said doesn't many sense, because, say they sell 100 million trucks, according to your logic they would end up with a huge loss. But in reality they would make a big profit.

yreg4• 2 years ago

Worrisome, but good that it got caught before anyone got into an accident. The issue shouldn't be present in all trucks, but better to recall all of them to be safe.

BTW: What happens if you fully press both the acceleration and brake pedals? I would hope for the brakes to be more powerful and stop the car, is that the case?

zaroth• 2 years ago

Since the accelerator is drive by wire, pushing both pedals disables the accelerator, and produces a warning chime and alert message on the screen.

The brakes do not have to be stronger, it’s handled in software.

If the accelerator is pinned down, letting up on the brake will cause the car to start accelerating again. So you have to keep on the brake and then put the car in park. Pressing the accelerator while in park does nothing.

techdmn2• 2 years ago

pushing both pedals disables the accelerator

Much to the frustration of those of us who occasionally engage in some left-foot braking. (Though TBH in my experience it's usually more effective in FWD cars.)

randlet• 2 years ago

I don't know about the Cybertruck specifically, but yes, brakes are virtually always capable of providing more stopping force than the engine can oppose.

Someone1234• 2 years ago

The issue shouldn't be present in all trucks, but better to recall all of them to be safe.

There is a video floating around of this issue, and based on that I'd call it an issue in all shipped trucks. While only a couple had it loose from the factory, the fact the two plates are only press fitted and when it slides up there is a perfect nook for it to get stuck in is a huge problem.

If I was a Cybertruck owner I'd inspect it at least every week and schedule the recall work ASAP.

brandonagr24• 2 years ago

They aren't only press fitted, they are glued together, but a change on assembly line lead to chance that some soap got on pedal and prevented the glue from bonding the two parts

masklinn• 2 years ago

What happens if you fully press both the acceleration and brake pedals? I would hope for the brakes to be more powerful and stop the car, is that the case?

You get a “both pedals pressed” alert and the accelerator is ignored, so the brakes don’t even need to overcome the engines. The behaviour is logical at least since tesla added blended braking (though I’d assume it also did that before then).

However as soon as you release the brakes the car starts accelerating as whatever the throttle is at again.

sp332• 2 years ago

NHTSA targets a 5th percentile person being able to stop the car with the engine at full throttle. https://www.autosafety.org/wp-content/uploads/2015/03/The-Br...

echoangle2• 2 years ago

Not related to your comment itself, but that’s a really bad paper/document. When analyzing the case “sudden full throttle when the car is stopped”, it is assumed that breaking only begins after 1.5s. Does a normal driver not keep the brake held while stopped at a traffic light. Also, he later assumes that data from a drag race can be compared to the case of sudden acceleration when at a stop because drag race drivers should floor the throttle, too. As far as I know, flooring is often not the fastest way to accelerate (just like fully braking compared to ABS), so the drag race data does not necessarily represent full throttle from a stop.

fergie• 2 years ago

Apparently the brake overrides the accelerator, so if you keep your calm, you can come to a stop.

darthrupert• 2 years ago

Tesla Cybertruck: "if you keep your calm, you can stop"

_ea1k22• 2 years ago

Yes, this is the case on every production vehicle. People don't always realize it, though, and fail to push the brake all the way and hold it.

jandrese5• 2 years ago

That's not quite the same. In Tesla hitting the brakes kills power to the motor. In an ICE car this is not the case, and if the engine is running away it can bleed off vacuum and you lose your brake assist. So if someone panics and starts pumping the brake pedal they end up in a runaway acceleration scenario until they remember that neutral exists.

In the real world runaway acceleration cases are extremely rare and always involve a degree of operator error, but they make for exciting headlines so people get the wrong idea about how common they are.

bitcharmer2• 2 years ago

Very few people can keep their calm in an unexpected situation. Even people who are trained and supposedly prepared for stressful situations often panic.

zelias• 2 years ago

I guess the budget for QA went straight into Elon's pay package

ripjaygn31• 2 years ago

His salary from Tesla's bank accounts is zero. Companies don't have their market cap in their bank accounts as cash which they use to pay executives.

Also, not like other automakers don't have recalls like this. You just don't hear about it here because... reasons. The legendary name for quality, Toyota had its wheels literally falling off.

malfist• 2 years ago

Aye, Tesla pays him nothing, that's why his compensation package was struck down in court?

funac• 2 years ago

tesla booked musk's much-discussed options package as a $2.5 billion expense. opportunity cost aside, it's silly to imply that a public company isn't going to act differently after it's stuck a significant fraction of its revenue on the wrong side of its balance sheet: analysts definitely will be.

financetechbro2• 2 years ago

If Elons pay package from 2018 gets revoked and they issue a new one (supposedly after moving from Delaware to Texas law), then it’s estimated Tesla will have $20bn+ accounting charge

a5huynh2• 2 years ago

Just to add context since I was curious about "Toyota had it wheels literally falling off".

That was a recall from 2022 (https://www.cnn.com/2022/10/06/business/toyota-bz4x-wheel-fi...) for 260 vehicles (their model BZ4X electric SUV).

The Cybertruck recall affects 3,878 vehicles (https://www.caranddriver.com/news/a60538687/2024-tesla-cyber...).

chollida14• 2 years ago

. After performing a series of tests, it decided on April 12 to issue a recall after determining that an “[a]n unapproved change introduced lubricant (soap) to aid in the component assembly of the pad onto the accelerator pedal,” and that “[r]esidual lubricant reduced the retention of the pad to the pedal.”

How do you have so little quality control and insight into your manufacturing process that someone on your own production line can introduce a new step to your truck manufacturing process that no one noticed?

I guess when analysts said the incumbent auto manufacturers would have a large advantage over Tesla in manufacturing, this is what they meant?

Because this looks like a very unprofessional error to have made for a company that has done well up until now.

htrp• 2 years ago

How do you have so little quality control and insight into your manufacturing process that someone on your own production line can introduce a new step to your truck manufacturing process that no one noticed?

That's legal covering the company.

I'd bet this was just a general design flaw.

bitmasher9• 2 years ago

To me both sound plausible (that the process was added, and that it’s a fabricated story). Either way we will never know, and ultimately it’s Tesla’s responsibility to make sure the accelerator pedal doesn’t get suck in the on position due to manufacturing defects.

chrisjj3• 2 years ago

That's legal covering the company.

Er, how does it cover the company? Company is responsible regardless.

radlad• 2 years ago

What does unapproved mean in this context? That it didn't pass by Musk's desk?

bitexploder3• 2 years ago

I am generally mildly negative on many Tesla decisions, but this has happened to the big manufacturers as well. Stock floor mats that caused stuck accelerator. Toyotas infamous stuck accelerator code that actually hurt people. Their code was reputedly a giant mess.

chollida14• 2 years ago

If Telsa and the article are telling the truth then these aren't anywhere near the same.

The mat was a design flaw from the beginning that missed QA, that happens in any large scale manufacturing as you can't just get everything right from the start.

If the article is telling the truth, this was a change made on the build line that wasnt' approved, that's a huge f$ck up if true and an incredible show of incompetence if someone can just start making design changes without approval on the build line.

diydsp• 2 years ago

wrt to the code: Although NASA found many aesthetic issues with the Toyota code, it did not find a smoking gun. [1] Presumably many other of their other products are running successfully with similar code. To put the comparison bt Toyota and Tesla in perspective: Toyota is an 85 year old company which ships about 10 million vehicles per year. Tesla has shipped almost 5 million vehicles total as of July 2023.[2]

[1] "In conducting their report, NASA engineers evaluated the electronic circuitry in Toyota vehicles and analyzed more than 280,000 lines of software code for any potential flaws that could initiate an unintended acceleration incident. "

"NASA engineers found no electronic flaws in Toyota vehicles capable of producing the large throttle openings required to create dangerous high-speed unintended acceleration incidents."

"The two mechanical safety defects identified by NHTSA more than a year ago – “sticking” accelerator pedals and a design flaw that enabled accelerator pedals to become trapped by floor mats – remain the only known causes for these kinds of unsafe unintended acceleration incidents."

https://www.transportation.gov/briefing-room/us-department-t...

[2] https://www.licarco.com/news/how-many-tesla-cars-have-been-s...

mschuster91• 2 years ago

Or the Takata airbag scandal [1]. A decade worth of airbags that were compromised, over 100 million vehicles that had to have all airbags replaced, likely 100+ injured and dozens of deaths. The sheer scale of that is absolutely mind-blowing, there is virtually no car manufacturer (except Tesla, ironically - I think they manufacture in-house?) that did not get hit.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Takata_Corporation#Defective_a...

danielfoster2• 2 years ago

That's what I thought until I saw the video. The top metal panel that covers the accelerator literally falls off, wedging itself between the accelerator and the car. It's not a fabric cover.

tibbydudeza2• 2 years ago

My Corolla was also recalled - code was a mess as with most embedded projects but no obvious bugs related to unintended acceleration - think the cases reported were less than a 300.

Never encountered the issue.

They replaced my floor mats and installed a new pedal assembly and updated to the ECU with "brake override" ability - meaning if I pressed the brake pedal it would ignore input from the throttle.

skellington2• 2 years ago

Except this has nothing to do with those things.

This is just the f'n rubber pad on the accelerator can come off which isn't great, but harms nothing.

What is wrong with the people here?

itsoktocry• 2 years ago

I imagine some of the schadenfreude comes from the Tesla bulls proudly proclaiming "and unlike the other OEMs, Tesla has never had a recall" for years, when it was just a matter of time.

m4632• 2 years ago

tesla also has floor mat issues (that it has tried to cover up)

jrmg3• 2 years ago

An ‘unapproved change’ getting in to the process seems way worse to me than just the [‘approved’] production process having an unforeseen flaw that’s being corrected now it’s been found.

michaelt2• 2 years ago

someone on your own production line can introduce a new step to your truck manufacturing process that no one noticed?

That's actually not unusual at all.

It's perfectly common for an engineer to order that a hole be made in a given location on a given part without specifying that coolant should be used, or the spindle speed of the drill, or how the part should be held in the machine, or that the hole should be deburred.

Manufacturing is skilled work.

trust_bt_verify3• 2 years ago

Bespoke manufacturing and machining is where this kind of change would be introduced. Not in a flushed out design being produced on a line. It becomes an expensive mistake when these types of decisions are made this late in the process. Seems like they rushed the design in a number of places.

mimikatz• 2 years ago

This exact same thing was seen a Boeing, which isn't a model of good manufacturing, but it is semi-commmonplace for the line to have unapproved fixes.

https://uk.news.yahoo.com/faa-found-staff-boeings-supplier-0...

xethos• 2 years ago

If I may clarify: Unapproved here would typically mean engineering hasn't signed off. It does not mean engineering was asked and said "Hell no".

bottlepalm2• 2 years ago

Work instructions are kind of like programming - at ‘runtime’ you’ll find out all the different ways the technicians can misinterpret them, or ‘fill in the blanks’ for things you overlooked.

forgetfreeman4• 2 years ago

And yet every other major auto manufacturer on the planet seems to avoid this problem, so clearly Tesla's missing something.

Workaccount24• 2 years ago

I work in manufacturing and sometimes stuff like this happens despite controls in place. You can get technicians/assemblers who just take it upon themselves to fix a problem rather than notifying anyone. To them it is no big deal (i.e. doesn't warrant mentioning to engineering), so it must be "no big deal".

danielfoster2• 2 years ago

Pressure to perform?

rootusrootus7• 2 years ago

Human nature. I run into this all the time. I've lost count of the number of times I've asked a user "Why did you not just mention this was not working right and you are working around it? We could have fixed this, but if you do not say anything it might be a while before someone on the dev team notices."

HarryHirsch• 2 years ago

An unapproved in-production change of a safety-critical article is "no big deal" to them? That bespeaks a Boeing-like safety culture.

ncr1002• 2 years ago

I speculate in a Musk company, this "I will fix it" attitude would be promoted.

"I sleep on the floor" .. "You're fired for not proactively fixing a problem I just thought of a solution to". Is my speculation off-base?

nabilhat• 2 years ago

It's a design error from the start. The workaround shouldn't have happened, but is only one of countless ways this would have inevitably happened anyway. Glue has a lot of failure modes. Correct application can't be reliably tested non-destructively. Product variances are often very hard to detect. Degradation with age and physical use can't be reliably forecast.

Three pins on the back of that appearance plate that push into starlock style fasteners in the pedal are cheaper than the appropriate glue, faster to install than glue, more reliable, trivially verified, impossible to misalign, and that's why it's a common solution that auto manufacturers use in this exact application. This was a confoundingly stupid place to rely on glue.

themaninthedark• 2 years ago

Same, I work in manufacturing(not automotive but heavy construction equipment) and see things like this all the time. Workers think they understand/ don't think engineers understand or want to do it faster/easier than what they were shown.

I have no knowledge of Tesla but here would be my guess:

Assembly worker found pad hard to put on pedal in sub-assembly area and used a spray bottle with soapy water on the pad to slip it on.

Story time: Called out to final assembly, machine starts and runs but not moving. Troubleshoot and find brakes not releasing. further troubleshoot and find it is due to pressure not getting to brakes(configuration is such that brakes come on if there is loss of hydraulic pressure). Replace hydraulic line, machine is working. Remove contaminate from line, no one know what it is. Assembly pointing fingers and saying sabotage. I walk around the assembly area, I find that paint decided to use packing peanuts to mask holes that the hydraulic fitting go in instead of masking tape as directed. The packing peanut tore while being removed and the assembly working inserting the fittings did not notice.

downrightmike• 2 years ago

Definitely not the Total Quality Management model. If management and engineers can't be bothered, this shit happens.

germinator• 2 years ago

It's easy to portray it as arrogance, but in manufacturing, you run into small problems and ambiguities all the time.

By analogy to software engineering, do your bosses or clients give you water-tight, formal specs for the software you need to build? If they could do that, they wouldn't be needing you in the first place.

We zero in on situations like that and pretend that it's the worker's fault for making the wrong call, but we ignore that if they didn't make the right calls a thousand times before, nothing would ever get done.

In this case, if pedal cover is a friction fit and can slide off and get jammed in between panels, this doesn't sound like an assembly mistake but a pretty major design error, right? Your designs should be resilient. What if the owner sprays WD-40 on a squeaky pedal and the cover slides off?

enaaem• 2 years ago

The fact that Musk publicly blames the fault on workers, shows that Tesla is already behind Toyota in philosophical thinking.

anon373839• 2 years ago

I don’t know anything about manufacturing, but the main thing that stood out when I toured the BMW plant in Munich was how ruthlessly efficient and regulated every step of the production process was. It’s hard to imagine there being any time for improvisation, or any ability for it to go unnoticed. Is Tesla’s production process just looser?

ivix• 2 years ago

You have written this as if this doesn't routinely happen to every auto manufacturer. Why?

chollida14• 2 years ago

You have written this as if this doesn't routinely happen to every auto manufacturer. Why?

Does it?

Which auto manufacturer's have had recalls due to unapproved changes made on the assembly line?

I've seen design flaws force a recall but i'm not certain that unapproved change s on the assembly line is something that routinely happens.

hn_throwaway_99• 2 years ago

I think Tesla has tons of problems, and I think the Cybertruck is a ghastly creation, and I think there have been many worse examples of QA problems at Tesla in the past (e.g. steering wheels falling off).

But at this point, this just feels like piling on. "OMG, how can their processes be so immature that something like this happened?!?!" Nearly all new models have significant recalls, and I'm not surprised for a vehicle as soup-to-nuts different as the Cybertruck. These are incredibly complicated engineering processes, so it's always easy to point out one thing (out of potentially millions) and yell "How could this happen?!"

I'm certainly not excusing Tesla for their overall QA issues, but at the same time this pearl clutching and what seems like undue attention every time there is a Tesla recall just seems over the top at this point.

bastawhiz3• 2 years ago

Because this looks like a very unprofessional error to have made for a company that has done well up until now.

I can't tell if this is a serious comment, because in the past there have been many weird problems, like wood trim in Model Ys:

https://www.thedrive.com/tech/36274/tesla-model-y-owners-fin...

(and yes, I know it's not exactly the same, but it's certainly still very bad to be using home renovation materials in the face of part shortages)

shepherdjerred2• 2 years ago

What's the problem with using trim? It doesn't seem like it'd have any impact at all, aside from being funny.

throitallaway• 2 years ago

Or the Cybertruck's wheel covers coming off, or the lack of ridge next to the windshield that causes any moisture on the windshield to hit the side windows (and intrude if they're open), or the extremely failure prone Model S door handles, the cost optimizations that have lead to stalk-less steering columns, etc. You could write a book about all of the quirky little problems that Teslas have.

Incumbent manufacturers have most of this stuff figured out; Tesla seems to want to "be different" on the most minute and boring of things. They keep stubbing their toe along the way.

sonicanatidae7• 2 years ago

When you consider who's running it, it makes perfect sense.

Only a moron of the scope of Musk would own an EV company, and then become a literal Nazi online alienating the left leaning people, you know, the kind of people interested in climate change, technology and EVs, and cater non-stop to right wingers, the kind of people who think climate change is a hoax, "EVs are for pussies", and love coal rolling.

ChuckMcM6• 2 years ago

I don't think it is an unprofessional error, there are many reasons that changes get introduced on the manufacturing line which benefit production speed and/or reduce errors.

What they missed was the after action surveillance and analysis. In a different organization such a change would go in, and at the same time kick off an engineering investigation to verify that it doesn't make anything worse. If that analysis comes up clean, there is no change. If it finds a problem though, then the change is reverted/changed to something else. In regular car companies you see things like "We're recalling all cars between VINxxxx and VINyyyy" which basically delineate that time between when the change was made and the time the analysis suggesting it wasn't a good thing. If its a minor thing there won't be a recall, just a bit of extra "warranty work" at the next service opportunity which the dealer does.

11thEarlOfMar• 2 years ago

Moreover, from what I've seen, this is an isolated manufacturing escape. Given the perspective of the rapid growth in capacity, with 3 factories coming online in 5 years and 2 million+ total capacity, wouldn't we expect to see more escapes, even from a top performing auto company?

ChuckMcM6• 2 years ago

As a followup to this, in this Techcrunch article[1] it says that all 3,878 Cybertrucks shipped to date have been recalled. That isn't a lot of cars. Apart from what it says about sales of the Cybertruck, that suggests they haven't had enough customer miles on these things yet to flesh out the more subtle issues.

[1] https://techcrunch.com/2024/04/19/tesla-cybertruck-throttle-...

tw04• 2 years ago

What they missed was the after action surveillance and analysis.

Isn’t that literally an unprofessional error? The big three already have this as standard operating procedure. Tesla still seems to be treating building cars like devops: move fast and break things, but don’t worry about the break things part until it’s bad enough that end users start complaining in a public forum.

chrisjj3• 2 years ago

I don't think it is an unprofessional error, there are many reasons that changes get introduced on the manufacturing line which benefit production speed and/or reduce errors.

I think you missed "unapproved".

9935c101ab17a66• 2 years ago

“What they missed was the after action surveillance and analysis.”

So you agree with the parent, you just don’t think Tesla was “unprofessional”. You can split hairs all you want over what specific process or check or diagnostic or paperwork did or didn’t get done. It doesn’t change the outcome — shipping 4K super expensive cars to long suffering customers to only almost immediately have a serious safety recall? That’s unprofessional.

Tesla should have been going over these with a fine-tooth comb! This is the first iteration of an entirely new vehicle platform for the company, its first time working with steel for body panels, its first time* implementing steer by wire tech, etc etc. why isn’t every single one of these first few thousand heavily scrutinized? Insane.

Moto7451• 2 years ago

I’m not a Tesla-stan but I can give this one a “it could have happened to any manufacturer” explanation.

Soap is a common method for getting rubber pads onto metal pedals in the aftermarket world. Dish soap dries out and becomes less slippery, unlike lithium grease or other options. It is possible it was carried over from an appropriate and approved installation method for top hinged pedals, where pressing down will push the rubber pad’s grove deeper into the metal shoe and not cause removal. For bottom hinged pedals, preferred for performance cars, I wouldn’t recommend that at all.

One off possibility is that this is NUMI knowledge making its way to Tesla ownership.

I don’t disagree with the takeaway though. If they were trying to Toyota Method/Six Sigma this assembly line properly, they’d have reviewed and approved the change as part of a periodic process and it wouldn’t have been “unapproved” and probably would not be the process they used.

Adding to my “it could have happened to any manufacturer” my EV Porsche comes with a NEMA 14-50 plug/pigtale that was previously only approved for use in 16 Amp EVSEs. The wire says 16A only (10 or 12ga wire is in use). However, they kept using these on 40 amp capable EVSEs. Over the years many 14-50 outlets and these plugs have melted. Through that time Porsche blamed low quality outlets and recommended an industrial model, but the plugs then melted instead of the outlet. Only this year did they issue a recall. This is extremely similar to an issue that happened with Tesla’s EVSE plug adapters. Porsche managed to make the same exact mistake years later despite that being an easy situation to reference.

https://static.nhtsa.gov/odi/rcl/2023/RCMN-23V841-8821.pdf

https://www.tesla.com/support/adapter-recall

_ea1k22• 2 years ago

One off possibility is that this is NUMI knowledge making its way to Tesla ownership.

Good point. While this was in Texas instead of there, it likely still applies. Given that this is early production, they were likely using some of their most experienced workers, possibly even as transfers from the other plant.

It is easy to imagine them transferring an approach like this ("it was approved before") without realizing that the consequences might be different.

jacktribe2• 2 years ago

The pedals are manufactured (and likely assembled with the pad) by a supplier in Canada, according to https://www.cybertruckownersclub.com/forum/threads/nhtsa-off...

voidmain0001• 2 years ago

This reminds me of the supposed factory floor modification to include a battery heat sink on the Model Y. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24424567

asddubs• 2 years ago

I'm kind of uneasy about this being possible at all. Obviously this is just because of the power of hindsight, but should things that can wedge the accelerator in full throttle position be using adhesive for fixation at all?

Phanyxx• 2 years ago

I just took my car in and there were 4 active recalls to address (Hyundai). This is hardly unique to Tesla.

red-iron-pine• 2 years ago

Because this looks like a very unprofessional error to have made for a company that has done well up until now.

bro their QA has been garbage since day 1. they've gotten better but this isn't really a surprise.

misiti37802• 2 years ago

You're aware the other legacy manufactures have recalls all the time, right?

assimpleaspossi• 2 years ago

In the book about Elon Musk by Walter Isaacson, design engineers have their offices next to the manufacturing line. So they see and hear everything going on. It probably wasn't just "someone on the production line".

FredPret2• 2 years ago

Manufacturing is super complex - employees and robots performing thousands of interconnected tasks, sometimes requiring a little bit of judgement, and never 100% supervised.

Even a mature operation like Toyota and Ford can blunder.

fuzzfactor• 2 years ago

For me it was a situation where I've never heard of another case, so I guess highly anecdotal, but can see how it might have applied to millions of regular old Ford ICE cars that were on the road.

At one end of the accelerator linkage is the "user interface" (gas pedal) and at the other end it's the entire V8 engine. Where the linkage connects directly to the throttle using optimized leverage and failure-mitigating springs that can overcome a number of foreseeable failure scenarios. Which had gradually been improved since the Model T and through the entire Space Age.

Runaway acceleration wasn't a problem with the pedal.

Engine was running properly too. And the linkage was perfect.

Well the engine is heavy and is not bolted directly to the frame of the car, instead it uses motor mounts, which consist of a metal plate which bolts to the motor, and an opposite plate that bolts to the frame, separated by a thick hard rubber shock absorbing pad.

Motor mounts are doing some of their isolation duty when you see an idling engine under the hood shimmying a little while the fenders and hood are nicely stationary.

Anyway it took years to figure out because it happened so seldom, and the cause & effect were so widely separated in time, but one day while navigating a jeep trail the engine had bottomed out, and that must have been the time one of the motor mounts separated, while the engine was momentarily forced an inch or more away from its normal position.

Nothing ever seemed any different, but every once in while when I would accelerate from a stop, the pedal would drop almost to the floor and it would really take off until I got my foot under the pedal and pulled it back.

Turns out the torque was occasionally capable of twisting the engine in the direction away from the broken mount, enough to be pulling on the linkage, opening the throttle further, and resulting in more torque. Might have had something to do with the octane of the gasoline in use.

I guess at either end of the linkage you want the rubber to be bonded to the metal a lot better than you might think at first.

jameslevy• 2 years ago

"Show me the incentive, I'll show you the outcome". I do not know anything of the culture of Tesla and am not commenting on it specifically, and that quote could apply just as much to a company like Boeing. But at companies working on safety-critical products, the problems usually arise from employees acting in their own self interest to do what will get them rewarded for shipping on time, or to avoid punishment for causing delays.

traviswingo• 2 years ago

I picked up a car from a mechanic the other day and we got to riffing about my own Tesla. He admitted to having friends that worked at Tesla on the manufacturing line. In his own words, these guys are “complete idiots,” and “do shrooms before assembling cars.”

I want to take his words with a grain of salt, but…I kinda believe it. Obviously hearsay means nothing, though.

roflchoppa• 2 years ago

I mean I don’t doubt that the some people working the assembly lines are getting a little messed-up before their shifts.

Our classic mini from Australia has other production anomalies, you kinda just chock it up to the workers being a little drunk during its construction.

dhosek• 2 years ago

“for a company that has done well up until now.”

Haven’t there been widespread complaints about manufacturing defects (poorly-fit panels, unexpected braking, wheels falling off, suspensions collapsing, axles breaking). They tend to rank at or near the bottom in quality surveys. Alfa Romeo comes out ahead of them. Even before Elon Musk’s antics turned me off the idea of buying a Tesla, I held off the possibility of buying one because the price/quality proposition was not great.

cyanydeez• 2 years ago

Done well and avoided costly errors are not similies

SCM-Enthusiast• 2 years ago

This is problably some contract manufacturer that delivers the assembly.

blindstitch• 2 years ago

Good thing this shit isn't street legal in the EU. They at least have some amount of will to enforce basic car design safety.

IshKebab3• 2 years ago

Don't worry, Tesla's next car will be a lot safer:

https://www.imcdb.org/i733450.jpg

superultra2• 2 years ago

It feels like web community’s reponse to Elon Inc businesses, including Tesla and SpaceX, is frequently a double standard. By that I mean that Tesla gets a hall pass on crucial QC detail work because they’re iterating or ironing out the detail as if it’s a web app.

Meanwhile I’m not so sure the same leniency applies to Chevy or Toyota or whatever.

I don’t deny that iteration is a crucial process. Also I’m not advocating for a hall pass for big auto. I just think this is a really big oversight and mistake. When you’re dealing with software that doesn’t directly impact lives, go ahead: break stuff. But when we’re talking about big ass trucks on roads, there should be a harsh response to a recall like this.

brandonagr24• 2 years ago

What hall pass? It's the opposite, the media blows a minor issue at Tesla out of proportion, while there are no national headlines about Fords or Jeeps getting recalled for bursting into flames

https://www.powernationtv.com/post/auto-brands-with-the-most...

superultra2• 2 years ago

Not sure that's true. I have a Chevy Bolt and when those were exploding (lol), it was all over the news. So much so that there are still parking garages that won't let you park a Bolt in the garage.

rootusrootus7• 2 years ago

We heard a lot about Toyota bz4x lug nuts and that recall was smaller than this cybertruck recall.

gnfargbl• 2 years ago

It's just the halo/horns effect. If you think (Tesla|SpaceX) is an innovative company doing some great envelope-pushing stuff then you probably empathise with their engineers more than usual and you're willing to give them a pass. If you think Elon is a (bigoted man-child|burgeoning danger to western democracy) then you probably think negatively about his companies and you're more likely to do the opposite.

At the risk of sounding trite, it's incredibly difficult to form a balanced opinion on any situation because the little lizard brain inside always wants to steer you one way or another.

robin_reala• 2 years ago

The best bit is that both is true, as Tesla / SpaceX aren’t the same thing as Elon.

maxerickson• 2 years ago

There's not any universal treatment.

There does seem to be a borderline cult of personality around the guy, composed of people that more or less seem motivated to come up with a reason to excuse anything. But that isn't that big a group of people, they are just loud.

There's also plenty of people that are loud because they don't like his politics/attitude.

_ea1k22• 2 years ago

That's been a problem in the auto industry in general, not just with Musk.

Honda's shipped a whole generation of Accord with a bad transmission. Civic clear coat failures were horrible for a while. Nissan has had huge issues with CVTs.

Chevy or Ford would be treated much worse for similar situations. There are patterns, and real disconnects between the reputational damage that is done and underlying vehicle reliability.

helsinkiandrew2• 2 years ago

One of the most frightening moments of my early life was when the accelerator peddle got stuck (actually one of the connecting rods) going into a roundabout, fairly recently after passing my driving test.

I couldn't figure out why I was speeding up even when breaking hard. But somehow I managed to maintain control and put the gear into neutral - and then sat at the edge of the roundabout with the engine screaming at full throttle before I figured out what was wrong and turned off the ignition. Wouldn't want to be in a Cybertruck with that happening.

brandonagr24• 2 years ago

You would want to be in a Cybertruck, when you press the brake pedal it auto overrides the accelerator pedal. Being in a Cybertruck with a stuck accel pedal is way safer than in a traditional truck

danparsonson4• 2 years ago

Except it's all fly by wire so you're relying on the software to be bug free and I'd honestly rather trust physics.

helsinkiandrew2• 2 years ago

I was more referring to its power and size, you need to figure out that your still accelerating when you've released pressure on the accelerator and you need to switch pedals to break.

Where are you going to be after half a second of maximum acceleration in a 6600lb cybertruck?

IshKebab3• 2 years ago

Yeah except it has a 0-60mph time of 2.6 seconds. You're probably already travelling at at least 20 so you have 1-2 seconds to figure out what's going on before you crash. Good luck.

matja• 2 years ago

Until the brake pedal falls off as well

rootusrootus7• 2 years ago

Being in a Cybertruck with a stuck accel pedal is way safer than in a traditional truck

I'd bet there isn't a current truck on the market that doesn't cut the throttle when you hit the brake. Basically all cars now.

kube-system7• 2 years ago

Traditional automakers have been programming their vehicles to work exactly the same way for a decade+, ever since the Toyota stuck accelerator debacle. My last two cars both ignored throttle input when the brake was depressed.

echoangle2• 2 years ago

What car was this in? I was always told that the brake of a modern car is much stronger than the engine so you can always come to a stop, even with a stuck accelerator

mrguyorama2• 2 years ago

While the breaks physically will be ABLE to overcome the engine in anything that isn't a dodge hellcat, if the peddle is stuck to the floor and the engine is at full throttle, you won't have much or any vacuum boosting effects! You will have to quite literally STAND on the brake peddle like the bad old days, and a lot of people driving today have never experienced unassisted braking.

blake1• 2 years ago

In most modern cars, there is a pressure booster in the power brake system, enabling braking force that can overcome the engine’s horsepower and quickly stop the car. But they are designed to continually maintain the braking force for a limited amount of time—30 seconds or so—after which this boosting ability is depleted. Once that happens, braking must be fully supplied by muscle power via the mechanical backup.

This is challenging if the engine is stuck in a wide open throttle (WOT) state, because the driver must overcome the cars weight in addition to the engine.

For a small car like a Toyota Corolla, this requires a few hundred pounds of downforce on the pedal. For a large 300hp SUV, this could require a thousand pounds of downforce.

As you said, the brakes can bring the car to a stop, but the car will start reaccelerating if the engine isn’t shut off.

(Sorry for mixing physical units.)

topspin• 2 years ago

While it is the case, by design and typically by regulation, that brakes have more braking force on paper than the engine and drivetrain can produce, in the real world it is not so straightforward.

ICE engines have active heat rejection and conventional brakes don't. So ultimately in any prolonged fight between an engine and brakes the engine will win.

Hot brakes have a lower coefficient of friction. This is the brake "fade" experienced on long downhill runs or heavy use, such as while towing heavy loads. In extreme cases brake pad outgassing, brake pad glazing and boiling brake fluid, all a consequence of heat, will degrade brake power.

Traditionally vacuum assist is used to amplify brake force in passenger cars. The vacuum reserve is, however, finite and little vacuum is available from an engine with a stuck open throttle. When the throttle is even partially open and the engine RPM is kept low (such as when fighting it with the brakes) the vacuum drops severely. When boost runs out brake force is greatly reduced. This all changes in heavier vehicles where more robust systems are employed, such as compressed air brakes with large pressure reserves.

Some vehicles have enough power to overcome the brakes on driven wheels. Some vehicles have "low range" gearing that can also easily overcome the brakes.

The situation described by helsinkiandrew was probably a combination of brake fade that emerged while fighting the engine and lack of brake boost due to low vacuum because the throttle was somehow stuck. But there isn't enough information to say for certain.

iknowstuff5• 2 years ago

FWIW, even if the accelerator pedal is stuck or misread in the Cybertruck, the brake pedal immediately overrides any input from it and stops accelerating.

MBCook4• 2 years ago

So I’m going to wildly speculate here:

I’m guessing most CTs have sold to big Tesla fans who already had Teslas. I’m going to assume those kind of fans also like one-pedal driving (many people do).

So if you’ve been using one-pedal for years you’re used to releasing the accelerator stopping you.

Could the driver who hit a pole have stopped themselves with the brake? Yes. If they were used to one-pedal for years, would they have thought of that? In a split-second panic scenario perhaps not.

I know millions of people love one-pedal and many (most?) electric cars have done version of it. But I wonder if stuff like this has been studied. How well to people used to it handle using the brake in a panic if they don’t often drive two pedal mode/cars?

I’d love to know the results of such a study.

cameronh902• 2 years ago

Stuck throttles used to be quite a common problem in the pre-ECU days.

I've had two cars that had a stuck throttle in the past, both where the accelerator cable connects to the throttle body on the top of the engine. In both cases, lubing it up solved the problem and it never reoccurred. It is a bit of a shocking thing to happen, but with a manual it's instinctive to just jam the clutch down.

What worries me about modern cars, in particular electrics, is the lack of any kind of kill-switch. Motorbikes have them, cars used to just have an ignition switch, but now everything from the ignition to the accelerator pedals is electric. Wouldn't it be a good idea to have a switch that kills the car if all else fails?

HaZeust2• 2 years ago

Shifting the car into neutral is your best bet, as well as a pumped parking/emergency brakes. However, I will always believe that turning secondary brakes into a button/lever was a bad idea.

somenameforme• 2 years ago

I was curious how frequently automakers have recalls, because it seems to me that Elon linked companies tend to get treated 'differently' by the media. The answer was extremely surprising. Here is a list. [1] Just in 2022:

Ford - 67

Volkswagen - 46

Daimler Trucks North America - 42

Chrysler - 38

Mercedes Benz - 34

GM - 32

Kia - 24

Hyundai - 22

Tesla - 20

BMW - 20

Pretty wild, because these rarely if ever make the news.

[1] https://www.carpro.com/blog/automakers-with-the-most-recalls...

jandrese5• 2 years ago

It should also be noted that most of those Tesla "recalls" are over the air software updates that happen automatically. This one is noteworthy because the owners have to physically bring their vehicle to the service center.

athorax2• 2 years ago

That is objectively not true https://www.tesla.com/support/annual-and-recall-service

ronnier• 2 years ago

Most of the Tesla recalls are just software updates that are done from home over the air

albertopv• 2 years ago

Source?

mynameisvlad2• 2 years ago

“Most” is pulling a lot of undeserved weight there.

Some recalls have been software updates. There have been plenty (like rear camera harnesses failing, the media CPU overheating, rear seatbelts being incorrectly attached, faulty MMC modules, and the incident being talked about here) that have required hardware fixes.

croes5• 2 years ago

How many of the others are software updates but without the possibility of OTA?

danparsonson4• 2 years ago

I don't think that single number by itself says very much though as it's not normalised, for example by the number of different product lines a manufacturer produces or the total number of vehicles manufactured.

schiffern3• 2 years ago

Why would you normalize by number of vehicles sold?

If a large-volume vehicle gets recalled, it should be a bigger news story than a niche car.

abadpoli• 2 years ago

Of course Elon gets treated differently. No other car company CEO is on Twitter drawing attention to himself like Elon. Tesla itself is also the darling car company of the decade, with the highest market cap. And the Cybertruck, by design, is basically a celebrity on wheels on every road/parking lot it traverses.

I’d be blown away if a full recall of the cybertruck wasn’t top headline news.

llamaimperative5• 2 years ago

This is one of those things that makes no sense about the Elon/Trump fanbase(s): they engage in absolutely incessant, flamboyant exuberance at every word out of their mouth to the degree it is nearly impossible to escape it, short of unplugging the internet and TV. Then they act shocked when negative news is also amplified.

Like yeah, there are both rewards and hazards to placing yourself in the spotlight 24/7/365. As there should be.

fransje26• 2 years ago

No other car company is as overvalued on the stock market.

And an accelerator pedal stuck in full acceleration state, on a vehicle that can go from 0-100 in 3 seconds, allegedly because of an unapproved, amateuristic change on the production line, is an excellent case-in-point of how detached from reality that valuation is.

Mistakes happen, but when such a life-threatening mistake happens, yet again, because of corner cutting and because the basics of quality control of car production are not mastered, it deserves all the bad press it gets.

bobmcnamara2• 2 years ago

Why'd he even put a gas pedal in there? Isn't self driving a solved problem?

AlexandrB• 2 years ago

They rarely make the tech news. There's plenty reporting on recalls in traditional media[1][2][3][4][etc]. I think a lot of Tesla fans have a persecution complex when it comes to reporting on Tesla.

[1] https://www.theglobeandmail.com/business/article-toyota-cana...

[2] https://www.theglobeandmail.com/business/international-busin...

[3] https://www.theglobeandmail.com/business/article-toyota-cana...

[4] https://www.theglobeandmail.com/canada/article-ford-recalls-...

ripjaygn31• 2 years ago

You're saying tech news and the articles that make HN's front page make a lot of tech people wrongly assume that Tesla is way worse with recalls than other car companies? Like we are seeing all over the comments here.

Looks like "a lot of Tesla fans" are right then. Now add the fact that headlines and HN post titles about Tesla software recalls omitting that it's a software update and just stating that millions of Tesla cars are being recalled. A neutral observer would agree but not Tesla haters.

trust_bt_verify3• 2 years ago

At least the fanboys seem ok with using the word ‘recall’ this time!

barfingclouds• 2 years ago

Disagree. Sounds like you acknowledge other recalls get reported, but those other recalls aren’t going to hit hacker news, Reddit, and other more mainstream places. Like I bet this will be on most social media platforms.

phatfish2• 2 years ago

The amount of attention "the media" gives a company is correlated to the number of shit posts per day the CEO makes on Twitter.

athorax2• 2 years ago

These numbers are pretty meaningless without more context, Ford manufactures ~3x more vehicles per year than Tesla

neogodless• 2 years ago

Number of models would also be relevant.

mkipper• 2 years ago

Also not all recalls are created equal. I have a VW that was recalled a few years ago for this:

https://static.nhtsa.gov/odi/rcl/2019/RIONL-19V615-0655.pdf

If the build-up happens, it may be possible to remove the key from the ignition switch without the shift lever being in the “P” park position because the system is unable to recognize that the vehicle is not in “P” park

That's obviously not a good thing and I'm glad it was caught, but it's not quite as dangerous to the public as a 7000lb truck's accelerator getting stuck or a car catching on fire when it gets rear-ended.

That's not to say those other automakers haven't had recent recalls just as bad as the Cybertruck's -- I have no idea.

7e• 2 years ago

Um, all of these manufacturers make more varieties of models and have sold, cumulatively, a lot more cars than Tesla. This means more opportunity for recall.

You need to normalize by total sales over the past ten years.

Tesla also has a monopoly on the service of their cars, so they can hide recalls. Most Tesla recalls only started to occur during the Biden administration, as regulatory bodies became less impotent.

aredox• 2 years ago

A company with a good QA (that doesn't stop at the vendor's gate) and putting safety above all will have more recalls.

This is the wrong metric to compare.

JangoSteve• 2 years ago

First, I agree it's important to put Tesla recalls in context with the greater automotive industry, so I think what you posted is great info. The only thing I'd disagree with is that the numbers compared to Tesla, and relative media coverage, is surprising. It seems expected to me.

Tesla bills itself not as an automaker, but a tech company. So, it makes sense they'd have a larger media footprint, which covers not just the automotive industry, but the tech industry media as well. This isn't unfair, considering they get the benefit of a tech-based market cap to go with it [1].

They also put themselves in headlines more often than other car companies with outlandish claims such as Musk saying, "At this point, I think I know more about manufacturing than anyone currently alive on earth." [2] When Musk and the company put themselves in headlines so often, it makes sense that the media would cover them more. This is likely a direct result of their advertising strategy, to create buzz [3], so I think media coverage of failures is a direct result.

You could argue that's Musk, not the company, but they made the strategic decision that Musk is their PR function when they became the only car company to dissolve their PR department in 2020 [4].

One last thing I noticed was that the source of the recall data comes from the NHTSA [5], and they don't seem to distinguish recalls between different brands owned by the same company (for example, Ford's recalls seem like they would include both Ford and Lincoln, GM includes Chevrolet, GMC, etc.) Tesla's 20 recalls in 2022 cover I believe the four models they made in 2022, while Ford's 67 recalls are across the 39 models under the Ford brand and five models under Lincoln (I counted these by looking at the drop-down selectors on KBB's value estimator [6]).

In short, Tesla exploits the hype machine; is it surprising that their recalls are hyped as well?

[1] https://www.reuters.com/business/autos-transportation/tesla-...

[2] https://www.thestreet.com/markets/elon-musk-ted-talk

[3] https://fourweekmba.com/tesla-marketing-strategy/

[4] https://electrek.co/2020/10/06/tesla-dissolves-pr-department...

[5] https://datahub.transportation.gov/Automobiles/NHTSA-Recalls...

[6] https://www.kbb.com/car-prices/

tibbydudeza2• 2 years ago

The Ford one was the worst - we had cases of people cars burning out and one person died.

It was due to the Kuga 1.4 Ecoboost 4 cylinder - there were a design defect that caused cracks that caused fuel to leak onto a hot cylinder head and then your car broke into flames.

Thanks to social media pressure think Ford bought back all models or offered generous trade in values - the resale value of the 1.4 Ecoboost tanked in our markets.

Ford discontinued the 1.4 Ecoboost completely.

cameronh902• 2 years ago

In the UK, lots of people are finding their 1.0 Ecoboost engines are catastrophically failing at 50,000 miles or less (hence the nickname Ecoboom). Ford have been useless. This has been going on for years now, and they have finally said they'll help, but only if the repair was done at the dealer, you have a FSH and the car is less than 7 years old. Outside of that you're SOL. They've refused to recall and fix the underlying issue. Obviously this tanks their resale value but Ford do not care.

bdcravens• 2 years ago

Probably because these other manufacturers have more than 4-5 models.

seanhunter3• 2 years ago

I am not knowledgeable about cars so please correct me if I'm mistaken but surely that number isn't useful unless we also have the number of models and vintages are in service? I would think Ford have way more models in play than Tesla for example, and additionally brands with a long history would have multiple years of models. I mean BMW and Ford have been building cars since before WWI and have a very wide range so there are probably at least 10 or 20 years of models that might conceivably have a recall. It's not fair to compare them directly I would think.

Jtsummers2• 2 years ago

A major reason they don't make the news is that many aren't that critical.

The most serious recall I had was for an electric harness that could catch fire (or cause a fire?), one of the least serious was a light (not a headlight or taillight, a light in the door that illuminated the ground and lower part of the vehicle when you opened it) would just stop working.

The former may have made the news, I don't know, the latter had no reason to. I've even had a couple (specifics forgotten) that were entirely aesthetic (interior, not exterior like issues with paint peeling, that was on a car from the 90s).

iknowstuff5• 2 years ago

Right, but do you feel tesla changing icon sizes was critical?

PurelyApplied• 2 years ago

A major reason they don't make the news is that many aren't that critical.

My favorite recall was the letter I got last year for 23V048000.

The instructions for how to engage the defroster in my car manual were suboptimal. You actually _don't_ want it to be on full-blast.

Please report to your nearest Nissan dealer to get a piece of paper to put in your car manual.

SkyPuncher• 2 years ago

My Ford truck currently has a recall with an unknown fix. Axle bolts can sheer off, leaving only the rotors and caliper mount to keep the wheels on the car.

But, you're right, most of these recalls are not "instant death machine you can't stop". While a fire can be dangerous, you will have time to react to that one.

wcunning• 2 years ago

I work in automotive and have had to handle the procedures after a recall was decided against code I owned (though had not written). The important distinction here is in how many vehicles are affected by the recall and the severity of it. Also, potentially in the party at fault (Takata vs every single OEM, for example). The thing to note here is that Tesla had to recall every single Tesla with FSD or Autopilot because NHTSA demanded it, over Tesla's express wishes. That is much worse than pretty much any other recall.

The other component to this is that many of those other recalls are probably software/calibration recalls, with no parts touched, and Tesla has been doing OTA updates for years longer than the other OEMs. In some ways that's good, since they can fix things without the need to issue a full recall and get the fix out to customers much faster. In some ways that's really really really bad because they push fixes to a range of hardware with limited customer ability to opt out, and I have zero reason to believe that they're managing the complexity/testing problem on that orders of magnitude better than the rest of the OEMs, since I sat through a lot of meetings trying to come up with a way to really thoroughly handle it to no avail. I distrust that kind of operation immensely and it's probably the primary reason I won't own a Tesla and have little interest in anything being produced today. Maybe a Mazda, maybe.

That said, I spent 5 years at Ford and I can't say I'm at all surprised that they lead this list...

okdood64• 2 years ago

Doesn't mean much without a breakdown of volume & model year.

daveguy• 2 years ago

And you also need to see percent of production. Of course Ford is going to have more trucks recalled than Tesla. Tesla has only put a few thousand on the road (trucks ie cybertruck, not cars).

mvdtnz• 2 years ago

Here we go. The inevitable post in every single thread about a Tesla recall. We get it, other manufacturers have recalls too. We get it, other manufacturers' recalls don't get as much news coverage or HN discussion. Please. No one cares.

aynyc• 2 years ago

Can you put cybertruck in neutral? That's the SOP for ICE cars if accelerator is stuck.

martin_• 2 years ago

No but the brake pedal overrides the accelerator. Of course, EV’s accelerate fast so you likely don’t have much time to react

hinkley5• 2 years ago

The video in thread says park also overrides the accelerator.

voidUpdate• 2 years ago

Electric cars don't have a gearbox that you can put into neutral

anticensor2• 2 years ago

They have a reverser switch and neutral cuts off the power to the engine, forward excites windings in one way, reverse in the opposite way

ksherlock• 2 years ago

Yes; there's no gearstalk but you can set p/r/n/d via the buttons on the overhead console, or on the touchscreen.

lucianbr3• 2 years ago

Granted, this isn't a usual occurence so maybe not a reasonable use case for the design.

But man, when accelerating at max power due to a glitch, you need to look at the touchscreen to find the right place to slide your finger to switch to neutral... I thougt having touch controls for climate was bad.

rootusrootus7• 2 years ago

That's the SOP for ICE cars if accelerator is stuck.

That is totally wrong. Most/all cars won't even go into neutral if the throttle is pinned. Your best option, always, is to mash the brake pedal as hard as you possibly can. It will win every time, even if the car doesn't have throttle cutoff.

ectospheno• 2 years ago

Car and Driver disagrees with you regarding shifting to neutral. Can you provide additional info?

hinkley5• 2 years ago

Shifting into reverse on most modern automatic transmissions requires the brake pedal to be depressed at least a tiny bit. Neutral has no pin.

In fact this is a somewhat little advertised boon to three point turns, in that you can go from reverse to drive without depressing the release button on floor mounted shifters or pulling the stalk in on steering wheel mounted units. You can just slap the car into D from R.

phkahler• 2 years ago

This is why having a dealer network is important, if annoying. Tesla has been a leader in having a "software defined car" so lots of problems can be fixed via over the air updates. They should be glad this issue was found early and not after 5 years and 2 million vehicles on the road.

rstupek• 2 years ago

Tesla has service centers to deal with these do they not? Not sure how dealers makes it any easier to manage the recall

kube-system7• 2 years ago

Traditional automakers have more dealers than Tesla has service centers. Tesla service is known for long wait times. Ford, for example, has 15x as many locations to get your vehicle serviced.

TheBigSalad• 2 years ago

but it wouldn't be a big issue if it went 5 years unnoticed.

hn1986• 2 years ago

Any idea why this is flagged?

dang• 2 years ago

Most likely because there have been oodles of low-quality stories on these topics. We turned the flags off on this one since it maybe rises above the noise (see https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=false&so... for past explanations on how we approach that).

dazc• 2 years ago

For context, worse things happen at sea...

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2023/feb/01/royal-navy-o...

vzaliva• 2 years ago

The most interesting part of this news is that it gives is the exact number of Cybertrucks sold so far. It is under 4000.

jtriangle3• 2 years ago

Are all 4000 of those even delivered?

Last I checked they were basically bespoke at this point.

hacker_883• 2 years ago

Are these all 100k$ above

_ea1k22• 2 years ago

Yes, all foundation series at >$100k.

offsky• 2 years ago

This is surprising to me too because I saw 3 different Cybertrucks on the road yesterday. I guess I live in a hot zone.

jejeyyy772• 2 years ago

thats the number produced, which is the bottleneck

1970-01-012• 2 years ago

Tesla is recalling all 3,878

So one of the smallest recalls in recent history? I understand that this company, its CEO, and this vehicle in question are all controversial, however the levels of attention coming from media are getting to be a bit too much. If you look at NHTSA's data and take a data-driven approach (just sort by potentially affected), you will find this to be quite normal.

https://datahub.transportation.gov/Automobiles/NHTSA-Recalls...

fullshark2• 2 years ago

So they shouldn't have published a story on this? Shouldn't have used the word "all?" What exactly are you complaining about? Just that the "lol Musk" media clickbait factory is lame? Cause this seems newsworthy to me and I don't find fault with the story published here.

1970-01-012• 2 years ago

Yeah, it's the clickbait. Every step and mis-step Tesla has is criticized beyond what I think is reasonable amounts. It's just sloppy journalism and clickbait.

post_break• 2 years ago

Suzuki recalled a single car: https://japanesenostalgiccar.com/news-suzuki-issues-recall-f...

bombcar2• 2 years ago

Suzuki recalled a single 21 year old car because it was missing a single stamp on the engine block and replaced the entire engine.

wnevets4• 2 years ago

Will there be a recall for a car wash being able to destroy the cybertruck? [1]

[1] https://twitter.com/StonkKing4/status/1780306557538050532

bugbuddy2• 2 years ago

If this problem is real and serious, meaning the damage is expensive to repair, this could destroy Tesla’s reputation and valuation.

wnevets4• 2 years ago

Supposedly it broke the entire truck and they voided his warranty. [1]

[1] https://twitter.com/StonkKing4/status/1780303955811278884

_ea1k22• 2 years ago

Why link to that guy instead of the original source? https://www.tiktok.com/@captian.ad/video/7358236474321505578

There was never a claim made of a denied warranty.

wnevets4• 2 years ago

Why link to that guy instead of the original source?

1. Its what google showed

2. TikTokphobia on HN

kernal• 2 years ago

This would not have been a serious problem had the lower back of the pedal footwell section been flush with the upper back section. How this design was able to pass QA is baffling.

mig39• 2 years ago

"Recall all Cybertrucks" isn't a huge deal. How many have they sold? 3000? 4000?

rootusrootus7• 2 years ago

Huge, no. But "all" is where it becomes halfway newsworthy.

Other manufacturers have made the news for smaller recalls, so this is pretty normal. Toyota, for example, when they recalled the bz4x.

DudeOpotomus• 2 years ago

The videos of this issue are telling.

Extremely poor design. With something as simple as a peddle, its almost unfathomable.

smokedetector1• 2 years ago

interesting that this hasn't caused a significant stock slide. Does that mean that the expectation for failures and mishaps is already priced in?

darkwizard42• 2 years ago

Car manufacturers have quite a few recalls like this. Some of Tesla's are even OTA fixes but require a "recall" to be announced. I think given the small volume of Cybertrucks in circulation AND the low volume being produced this has negligible effect on their bottom line of deliveries and revenues.

_ea1k22• 2 years ago

Even if Tesla's rosiest projections for CT were true, it'd be less than 20% of unit volume. Reality might be under 15%.

It doesn't really move the needle either way.

ck2• 2 years ago

btw whatever happened with Toyota's "Spaghetti Code" accelerator?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sudden_unintended_acceleration...

hinkley5• 2 years ago

Friction fit handlebar grips for mountain bikes, cruisers and kids bikes have a similar installation problem. Bike mechanics use hairspray to solve it.

Slick when initially sprayed, tacky when dry. Also the solvent in more hairspray can be used to subsequently remove them.

jtriangle3• 2 years ago

I've always prefered spit and yelling... so this is a good tip

hinkley5• 2 years ago

Mountain bikes tend to be ridden wet, so soap is a big no no.

But yes, saliva if you can’t figure out where the can of AquaNet went.

timemct• 2 years ago

The air compressor trick works great. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U6SsqBcpXZU

wunderland• 2 years ago

A guy posted a video of his accelerator pedal getting stuck in the fully down position to all of the relevant subreddits (r/tesla, etc) and was banned from posting in all of them.

https://twitter.com/elaifresh/status/1779600432085819708?s=4...

These forums are all moderated by Tesla, or is it Elon fanboys who refuse to accept any criticism?

steveBK123• 2 years ago

It's a cult, worst than peak Steve Jobs distortion field era for those that lived through both. I say this as an Apple user and former Tesla driver..

speedgoose• 2 years ago

Tesla private investors is my guess.

Here is a message they use to spam regularly on the main r/teslamotors subreddit:

To the critics, we ask you to remember that many people in this sub not only believe in what Tesla is doing, but have voted with their money.

https://old.reddit.com/r/teslamotors/wiki/automoderator-sche...

leesec2• 2 years ago

Nothing bad happened here and they caught an issue without any incident or injury. I wonder if there will ever be a day where Hackernews isn't actively rooting for the downfall of innovative technology companies

throwaway59595• 2 years ago

Tesla is no longer a leader in innovation, their vehicles couldn’t even do V2L/V2G until the CyberTruck.

jacktribe2• 2 years ago

48v is a pretty big leap forward that I bet other automakers will replicate. So is assembling the interior (seats, console, etc.) onto the battery and lifting it into the vehicle. Also, the rigid wire harness that can be snapped in by robotic arms. The list goes on. I recommend watching some of the teardown videos.

leesec2• 2 years ago

Don't even know how to respond to this lol. Their EV's are head and shoulders above the competition

_ea1k22• 2 years ago

In some ways, Tesla gets too much credit for innovation. Their cars aren't the cheapest, their charging curves aren't the fastest, and their range isn't the highest.

But the balance of all three attributes often makes them the best choice within their segment.

CT is an exception at the moment. It'd be really hard to pick it over the Silverado EV.

misiti37802• 2 years ago

Yes, they are.

01HNNWZ0MV43FF• 2 years ago

It's schadenfreude. I think the Edison Truck guy is also a little bit of a jerk but I prefer how they're planning to do things - just make a hybrid version of a regular truck. You don't have to re invent every little bit of metal and computerize everything and make it into a privacy nightmare just to stick a battery into a vehicle

In fact the Toyota hybrids are quite similar to regular cars. Ground-up rewrites are great resume filler but there are other ways to innovate

bdjsiqoocwk2• 2 years ago

Tesla isn't innovative or tech.

ccorcos• 2 years ago

Ironically, they could’ve used glue instead of soap with no delay in assembly time

MBCook4• 2 years ago

Or designed it with simple snaps.

royaltjames• 2 years ago

My dad lives by using dish soap to lube up hoses and other connectors. This has that vibe.

cs7022• 2 years ago

To repeat what I wrote on that post, this is all 100% explainable by Tesla's sacred five-step algorithm for manufacturing[a]:

1. Make the requirements less dumb: "All designs are wrong, it’s just a matter of how wrong." - Musk

2. Try and delete parts (that seem unnecessary): "If parts are not being added back into the design at least 10% of the time, not enough parts are being deleted." - Musk

3. Simplify or optimize: "The most common error of a smart engineer is to optimize something that should not exist." - Musk

4. Accelerate cycle time: "You're moving too slowly, go faster! But don’t go faster until you’ve worked on the other three things first." - Musk

5. Finally, as a last step, automate. "I've made the mistake of going backwards on all five steps." - Musk

Evidently the accelerator pedal issue was caused by step #2: At some point, the Cybertruck team at Tesla questioned the requirement to securely tighten the metal plate covering the accelerator pedal, and somehow concluded it seemed unnecessary. Now they have to add it back!

---

[a] https://evannex.com/blogs/news/elon-musk-reveals-his-5-step-...

CamperBob2• 2 years ago

And from somewhere far above or below us, 'Mad Man' Muntz, wire cutters still in his hand, smiles at Elon.

cs7022• 2 years ago

Thanks for that. I laughed out loud at "far above or below us".

JohnMakin3• 2 years ago

It's truly wild to me that people will pay upwards of $100k to be beta-testers for a several thousand pound machine easily capable of killing them or others

hacker_883• 2 years ago

Relax , it is just an OTA .

not this time

cdme• 2 years ago

Is it surprising that a company that thought a vehicle this absurd was a good idea to build would also suffer from quality control issues?

aaroninsf• 2 years ago

Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha whew.

Move fast and break things, ketamine-fueled edition!

CatWChainsaw• 2 years ago

At this point I wonder if Musk is so insecure about anyone being him at anything that he decided to pick on Boeing.

greenish_shores2• 2 years ago

Unapproved lubricant... well. Exactly the same, and also in throttle control input, caused (albeit together with software having problems handling the issue) a total control loss in Airbus A320, during a training flight in 2018 in Estonia. It resulted in a crash landing - they barely landed the plane in a way in which they could walk away from the landing, and the plane got destroyed.

Incident report: https://www.flightradar24.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2019/1...

Also Mentour Pilot did a pretty good video explaining all causes, including the software issues: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=04M63B1sv_Y

djcannabiz• 2 years ago

I second the video recommendation, mentor makes some of the better documentary style content on the app. the fact that it’s completely free makes it even crazier!

greenish_shores2• 2 years ago

Yeah I like his content too, but I'm far from revering him this way (and I see a lot of comments like yours). By the way I also respect how good he is at monetizing this, however... Internet both as a technology and even more as a community was founded by scientists whom were a bit later joined by (also often same people were doing both) people doing and creating things non-commercially, as a hobby, because they simply enjoy them, and so on (I'm speaking mostly of Usenet newsgroups in the latter part, as the early form of that). I don't see how (consensually) sharing content for free is "crazy". That's just the way, the Internet way. Maybe it's just the demographic cohort of enjoyers of his content largely overlaps with the cohort of customers of commercial video streaming platforms which creates a feeling like that.

throwaway59595• 2 years ago

Stick a fork in it. It’s done.

Tesla recalls all cybertrucks for faulty accelerator pedals

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