The AirPods Effect

https://www.theescapenewsletter.com/p/the-airpods-effect

by herbertl • 1 month ago

447 784 1 month ago

MBlume2• 1 month ago

I'd much rather be surrounded by people wearing earbuds than have people watching tiktoks through their phone speakers on the subway

pb7• 1 month ago

Coincidentally, the latter increases the number of the former. Most people are going to avoid confrontation and instead opt for their personal noise cancelation.

mciancia• 1 month ago

Most people are going to avoid confrontation

Yeah buying airpods seems like better idea than being stabbed/beaten up

nozzlegear4• 1 month ago

That just sounds like another version of what the author is talking about: using [device] to avoid human interaction.

walrus015• 1 month ago

In a really big and busy city it's emotionally exhausting and not reasonable to have an interaction with everyone near you. The only way a lot of people can tolerate being packed into busy public transit systems on a daily basis is to intentionally ignore each other to a certain degree.

It's essentially the same unspoken etiquette rule as what you're socially expected to do if riding a crowded elevator.

Go commute by NYC subway 10 times a week, M-F especially during peak tourist season and you'll understand.

I intentionally behave completely different if I'm in a small town of 3000 people or walking down the street, shopping, riding transit in a large city.

chasd002• 1 month ago

The only interaction you’re missing in ops post is politely asking them to turn it down and being told very aggressively to “shut the fuck up!”.

bko• 1 month ago

I don't think that's it. I think highly anti-social behavior is often deliberate, looking for someone to challenge you. An exertion of power. That's why pretty much everyone learns to ignore the behavior and not say anything.

bananamogul2• 1 month ago

I remember in the 70s and 80s people on buses and subways reading magazines and newspapers. The idea that electronic devices have ushered in some age where humans want to interact with each other less is a myth I think.

cma• 1 month ago

Newspapers have probably been used for this on subways for this as long as subways have been around. Walkmen in the 80s.

saghm8• 1 month ago

Sure, in the same way that taking a leak in a toilet and taking a leak on the sidewalk are both ways of avoiding wetting your pants

MBlume2• 1 month ago

As is driving alone in a car

misiti3780• 1 month ago

those are just people with bad manners.

TiredOfLife• 1 month ago

There is an even worse thing. Using speakerphone while on street, while holding the phone near ear anyway.

chadgpt3• 1 month ago

I started using them recently but I already wasn't talking to strangers for a long time before that.

I suspect the constant stimulation suppresses the default-mode network, the idle wandering your mind normally experiences when you're doing nothing.

Before that, I'd sometimes hold my phone up to my ear to listen to a podcast (even on the subway at minimum volume) but it was awkward so not ubiquitous. I think buying a paid of wireless earbuds was one of those decisions that made my life subtly worse overall, like eating a whole tub of ice cream.

lorecore• 1 month ago

People now wear their AirPods all day at the office. They keep them in while ordering and paying for things in stores and supermarkets.

I wonder how people do this or if my ears are just shaped weird, because I can’t even sit totally still at my desk without them falling out.

Balooga• 1 month ago

Uh oh. You could be genetically predisposed to have to listen to everyone's problems.

nsagent• 1 month ago

Get the new Powerbeats Pro 2. Nearly identical in functionality to Airpods, but they have ear hooks as they are designed for sports.

chihuahua• 1 month ago

There's a pretty big difference between AirPods and AirPods Pro. The former just sort of loosely sit in the outer part of your ear. The latter form a pretty good seal in your ear canal. That's how you get good noise cancelling with Airpods Pro.

The loose fit of the regular AirPods and the wired EarPods never made any sense to me.

inigyou7• 1 month ago

my $9 wired earbuds from Sony also form a good ear seal by the way. No need to buy the $250 (!) thing from Apple. Unless you don't have a headphone jack.

I've used these to sleep to podcasts or quiet music at music festivals, and they block out the music from outside pretty well. This is because of the flexible rubber seal. My wireless earbuds are hard plastic all the way around and sit (securely) in my earlobes while my wired ones actually go inside my ear canal.

josephg• 1 month ago

Yep. The pros also come with a bunch of different silicon ear tips to fit a range of different ear canal sizes.

InitialBP• 1 month ago

This is actually the exact opposite for me. Rubber tipped buds will not stay put in my ears when I move around, while the original airpods models sit within my ears and don't fall out unless I'm doing cartwheels.

pesus• 1 month ago

It also depends on the person and the model of Pros, strangely enough. The first generation stayed in my ears perfectly, but the second generation does not.

tptacek2• 1 month ago

I don't remember any time in my life where it ever felt normal to me to randomly talk to strangers. I went to London when I was a teenager and was made uncomfortable by how chatty the cab drivers were. Later, I worked at a startup and my boss was preternaturally gifted at chatting up strangers, which he did habitually in every setting we were in when we traveled; on the plane, on the bus from the airport, &c. I remember feeling like he was a freak of nature.

And I'm not an introvert!

All of this long predates Airpods.

I think this is a cultural difference, not a technological shift.

dav43• 1 month ago

My take, is that this effect has removed a lot of the micro communications we make - not necessarily random conversations. It’s taken away random moments that may trigger a short small conversation with strangers.

In part it’s taking away the shared experience in public and making it “my” experience.

garrickvanburen2• 1 month ago

Whether grocery shopping or an endurance running event (5K+) those with any kind of headphones in are simply less aware of the people trying to get around them.

mlinhares• 1 month ago

Completely anecdotal story, me and a friend had completely different experiences going to Portugal. We're both Brazilians so language, food, culture aren't barriers, he's very talkative and would joke and try to interact with random people in the street or restaurants. He had a terrible experience, hated the country, vowed to never come back, said he wasn't welcomed anywhere, people were rude, even waitresses.

I'm more of a "talk when talk is needed" person but still social. i don't really interact with strangers in the street and I assume business social interactions (like restaurants) are just that, business, so I'm polite but i'm not going to crack a joke with someone i've never seen before and will likely never see again. My experience was the complete opposite, loved Portugal, would easily move there if salaries weren't shit, people were nice, i felt welcomed anywhere i went, might have been the only place outside of Brazil i have really felt at home.

I think its important to NOT BE RUDE with the random people you meet in the street but I also see no reason so strike a conversation with them. If I happen to see something that picks up my interest, like a band shirt, book i like or something like that, i might bring it up if we're going to stay in the same place for long, but starting a conversation out of nowhere just isn't a thing for me.

saghm8• 1 month ago

Sure, but when the only reason I had those random moments with strangers were because they wanted them, and refusing to engage is considered "rude", I'd argue that it already was just someone else's "my" experience before, just "shared" because of societal peer pressure. What changed is that now I have a way to actually assert my boundaries without being the rude one.

sanswork• 1 month ago

My mom was one of those people that talked to people everywhere we went and seemed to know someone everywhere too. As a very shy kid I was constantly mortified but I had the startling realisation several years back that I'm that person now just starting conversations all over the place. Oddly enough seeing your comment I think the change happened when I moved to England in my late teens but I didn't recognise it until my 30s. I do wear my airpods a lot on walks these days but I always silence them as I approach people and regularly take them out if it seems like a conversation is about to start.

coldtea• 1 month ago

This is common experience also in ND vs NT differences.

haaz• 1 month ago

as someone who enjoys talking to strangers, while it is less common in some countries like China, and big cities in most countries, people tend to react mostly the same.

fundad3• 1 month ago

Agreed. These people seem to be panicking that our precious society is suffering because of choices people are making for themselves when that’s just what society is. If they benefit from talking to more people, go ahead and enjoy the benefits. They aren’t owed anything.

I’ll talk to strangers when it makes me feel good. But most of the time I try avoid inviting weirdos to complain about minorities or marginalized people from someone who has driven away anyone close to them.

basisword8• 1 month ago

> I try avoid inviting weirdos to complain about minorities or marginalized people from someone who has driven away anyone close to them.

I would suggest that it's your avoidance of talking to strangers that makes you think this is how a lot of them think. And it kind of proves the point that society can suffer because of it. If you went out tomorrow and talked to 100 random strangers for 10mins I'd be surprised if any of them complained about minorities.

anon-3988• 1 month ago

Agreed. These people seem to be panicking that our precious society is suffering because of choices people are making for themselves when that’s just what society is. If they benefit from talking to more people, go ahead and enjoy the benefits. They aren’t owed anything.

I hope you don't complain when people use social media or have LLM as their daddy to cope then :)

exmadscientist4• 1 month ago

Talking to strangers is a skill. You can practice it! I've made a point of trying to practice, albeit halfheartedly, and even though it's difficult for me, because I like it when other people try to talk to me.

Earbuds stop this practice dead in its tracks. You can't deny that.

xquce• 1 month ago

Agree with the first part, very important! Not the second, however.

I joined my local fitness gym some months ago and use it to connect to people in the small town I moved to. Almost every time I'm there I manage to chat to someone briefly, and 50% of them have earpods in. Most of them now look up and greet me when we pass and multiple have up to me on other days to chat afterwards.

It's a skill and part of that skill is being able to give people an out of the chat if they don't feel for it, not interrupting at a bad time (mid set in a gym setting). My starter is usually a quick question with a "thank you so much, I'm new here" and if they reach for earpods to put back as they say you welcome, perfect you don't keep going. For the ones who want to chat keep them off and respond or ask something in return.

So headphones/earpods can be a barrier but for me it's a useful barrier and a clear signal, which helps both parties.

norome7• 1 month ago

I just pretend I haven't noticed they have earbuds in and start talking to them. Virtually everyone seems happy to have an interaction, I get the feeling people are a bit starved for random friendly contact.

microtonal3• 1 month ago

Talking to strangers is a skill. You can practice it! I've made a point of trying to practice, albeit halfheartedly, and even though it's difficult for me, because I like it when other people try to talk to me.

It is definitely something one can learn. I also like it very much. Most people are just very nice and love chatting a bit as well (just be respectful of their time and know when to bow out).

There are also other functions that purely having a good time. E.g. when you are in a train with reserved seats, striking op a conversation is also a good way of gauging whether it's ok to leave your bags when you leave your seat to grab a drink or some food. Also, people feel more responsible looking after your stuff once you have socialized a bit.

For me it's not super-difficult. I came from a small village where it is normal to greet people and maybe chat, even if you don't know them.

GJim5• 1 month ago

Talking to strangers is a skill. You can practice it!

This is HN mate!

You need to design an app so people can practice it. (Alternately, rant something about "pick up artists").

pjc50• 1 month ago

I like it when other people try to talk to me.

Probably an unpopular point on HN, but this is very gendered. There's a lot of women who don't want to be chatted up who wear headphones, and therefore a lot of men who are annoyed at this visible signal that the woman doesn't want to listen to them.

We can leave room for "not wearing headphones is a signal that you're open to talk" without having to pressure people who aren't.

wolvoleo23• 1 month ago

Earbuds stop this practice dead in its tracks. You can't deny that.

Yes it's a signal. For you to go find someone else to talk to :)

That doesn't mean I'm antisocial, there's just places where I go to be open to talk to people. Like bars, meetups, stuff like that. And places where I'm just to get from A to B and I don't want to. Usually when I'm in public transport I'm going to/from the office and I'm stressed because I deeply hate working in the office since Corona (no more fixed desks etc). So I need my space.

rimliu2• 1 month ago

You may like it, others may not. I hate when random strangers talk to me. Unless you are skilled to distinguish willing from not, you are training your skill at the expense of others.

jnovek8• 1 month ago

I like it when other people try to talk to me.

I don’t.

basisword8• 1 month ago

I definitely think it's generational. Every person I know over 50 could talk to a brick wall for hours. The people I know 30-40 it's a struggle for at least half of them. Under 30 and it gets much worse.

Even the older introverted people I know, who I would characterise as quiet, would find it really rude to get in a taxi and not chat to the driver for the duration of the journey.

With people doing their entire careers remotely now I can only see this shift happening faster and more intensely. Small talk is a skill like any other and I think it's a sad skill to lose on a societal level. And I say this as a serious introvert that doesn't love to make small talk. Nine times out of ten, when I do make the effort to e.g. talk to a taxi driver I come away happier.

AaronAPU• 1 month ago

I’ve noticed the age gradient as well. It’s hard to miss.

bsder• 1 month ago

It's one thing to isolate against strangers in a subway. It's another thing to be goddamn oblivious in a shared space like a grocery store--to take a random (not) example. It's getting to the point that I have to body up to people to get them to take notice that they're blocking a half dozen of us.

I also do agree with the comment that airpods do seem to get in the way of the most basic of social etiquette. Simple "please" and "thank you" are increasingly rare since you can't recognize the cues when your ears are full of something else.

saghm8• 1 month ago

As someone who is often pretty introverted, I feel like wireless earbuds just give me a way to act like I already wanted to with less friction. I pretty rarely want to talk to random strangers, not because I have anything against them, but because I just find it takes a lot of energy for me to do so (probably not in small part from having to replicate a lot of what comes naturally from others in terms of social signal reading with extra effort). People seem to be a lot less likely to randomly initiate conversations with me when I'm out in public with my earbuds on, and that saves me from having to decide between feeling even more tired after going out or the awkwardness of trying to cut off the conversation short to avoid spending energy on it.

DANmode3• 1 month ago

This comment made me think of AirPods usage like eye-glasses usage.

wenc• 1 month ago

As someone from Chicago (actual Chicago, south side, not the suburbs), randomly talking to strangers is what we do.

We're talking to strangers at the bus stop, at the grocery check out, or just wherever. It's just phatic conversation, nothing needs to come of it. Chicagoans aren't just friendly, they actually love the art of the conversation -- every conversation is a chance to put in the reps.

But the minute you step into the suburbs, this habit disappears.

brailsafe7• 1 month ago

But the minute you step into the suburbs, this habit disappears.

This is exactly the feeling I get in the suburbs of most places, and I think the nature of car-centric suburbs serves as a decent analogy for the Airpodsification of otherwise more urban areas. Suburbanites want their palace that they can tightly control, and it rarely matters where it is as long as they can drive to anywhere they need to go, but they don't really like people and it feels like a deeply antisocial liminal space. There's rarely any specific reason anyone would want to be there, and even if they did, they'd have to drive, and if they chose not to, people there use their cars as tools for avoiding interactions with strangers. You wake up, get in your motorized comfort bubble / killing machine, and then drive from point A to B and then back to Point A. If you wanted to go hangout, oftentimes the act of driving that you've chosen sucks all that time away anyway. Drivers then get dogs so they have some sort of excuse to interact with other people who have dogs, or kids or whatever.

Then if they're lucky, they wake up one day and realize they don't see any real friends that aren't their immediate neighbors anymore, and they've lost the ability to understand how to meet people outside of work. Their old friends didn't come out for that bbq because it's dead boring and the bbq master is the only one that doesn't have a commute back. The bar in their basement sits empty because it turns out people actually want to go to the pub instead of sitting in the basement. The novelty was never the drinking itself, but the feeling of coming together in the same space and place as other people hanging out having a good time.

tptacek2• 1 month ago

I grew up on the south side and lived for years in Lakeview; we moved back from Ann Arbor to Oak Park, much later, the only time I've lived "in the suburbs", and Oak Park is more urban than Beverly or Jeff Park are. And then, of course, even after we moved to Oak Park, I still worked in the city every day.

No, this doesn't track my experience of Chicago at all.

projektfu4• 1 month ago

My experience of Chicago (North side) was that it was full of polite but unfriendly people. This was jarring to my experience growing up in NY, where people tend to be more rude but friendly. I settled in Atlanta, where people are more polite but quite friendly.

jasonfarnon2• 1 month ago

Well, what culture are you saying patterns like you?

DANmode3• 1 month ago

And I'm not an introvert!

Consider that you may be!

You’re just surrounded by other people who are also introverted to the point you don’t stand out to yourself.

I’ve driven almost 4000 people home from the airport. It’s almost annoyingly ubiquitous for people to chat up the driver.

fragmede2• 1 month ago

If I didn't want to talk to a person, I'd just take a Waymo.

ErroneousBosh3• 1 month ago

I don't remember any time in my life where it ever felt normal to me to randomly talk to strangers And I'm not an introvert!

See that's interesting, because I *am* an introvert, but I'm quite happy to sit and talk to strangers. I don't mind it at all.

One of the few cultural similarities that I feel like London has with Scotland (where I live) is that you can just talk to people. People will talk. If you go to Glasgow and you ask for directions, chances are that the person you ask will walk with you to where you're going and point out good places to eat and interesting things to see along the way. Boston people have just learned this in a big way.

My son is even more so, and at not-quite-six he already appears to know most of the people in the town of 14,000 people where we live, how their farms are doing, how are the cows, what weight of potatoes are they getting per hectare, what prices they're getting at market, how they're getting on with that gearbox problem with the van. It takes about an hour to walk the mile or so back from school because he's got to talk to all the old guys and ask how they're doing.

Social Networking at its finest. I suspect he won't be stuck for a job when he's older.

SyneRyder• 1 month ago

That's strange to me that you mention London as being similar to Glasgow. I've not had the chance to visit either, but my go-to on this topic has always been this faux news story on the Mash Report:

Northener Terrifies Londoners By Saying "Hello"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1YxLiLFjYKc

I hadn't noticed it before, but they even specifically mention the use of headphones as a defense mechanism near the end.

throwaway20378• 1 month ago

    > It takes about an hour to walk the mile or so back from school because he's got to talk to all the old guys and ask how they're doing.

Wow, this really pushes back against the all might HN narrative that the world is now too dangerous to allow this. You have found a real gem of living. My guess: The farmers are probably all too happy to have a young curious lad to talk with a few times a week!

microtherion• 1 month ago

Yes, I experienced this a number of times in my life.

Growing up in a small Swiss village I wasn’t born in, I had to learn that you basically greeted everybody you passed in the road, under the assumption that you knew them or were supposed to know them (more conversations were not needed).

Moving to a large Swiss village, I had to learn that saying hi to random strangers was considered weird at best.

First time I visited Southern California, I was very uncomfortable with strangers striking up random conversations. Later in the trip in San Franciso, I felt that the slightly toned down form of this habit was more comfortable for me.

Moving back to Switzerland after having lived in CA for a few years, I had to relearn old habits.

psp993• 1 month ago

grüezi!

Anthony-G• 1 month ago

Similar experience here. I grew up in rural Ireland in the 80s where you said hello to everyone but had a culture shock when I moved to Dublin for college. I quickly realised that you don’t greet everyone. I put it down to a being a matter of scale: in the countryside, it’s easy to say hello to everyone when you’ll usually encounter only a small number of people. It’d be impossible to say hello to everyone in a big city.

I still say hi to people when doing things like hiking a trail that’s off the beaten track: we’re sharing a similar experience and have that one thing in common. If it’s a popular trail or busy weekend, it’s more akin to being in a large town where you don’t say hello.

Another rural-urban division in Ireland is that in the countryside, car drivers greet oncoming drivers – whether they know each other or not – by subtly raising a finger or two while keeping their hands on the steering wheel. Since the 80/90s, this custom has been dying out in the counties near Dublin but I still see it in the West of Ireland. A few years ago, we were holidaying in West Cork and my wife was driving but hadn’t realised we were being greeted by the locals. As a Dubliner, she’d never even heard of this practice.

Edit: By the way, I just noticed your username. Seeing that you’re from Switzerland, I was wondering if it’s a reference to the Celtic Frost album?

Brajeshwar2• 1 month ago

I’ve strange news from the business world. That ability to talk to strangers and be conversational with various topics is actually making him a rather successful boss/business-person. Remember, not just talking, but the far better one is the ability to listen, and take genuine curiosity in the other person’s stories.

I learned, and am still learning, to start with very subtle conversations in contextual proximity to the person without shocking/surprising them. And then, I mostly try to listen more and try to guide them to talk more. You will be surprised at how many a lot are eager to talk to someone, if they are being listented to.

wolvoleo23• 1 month ago

I'm sure that's true but not everyone is cut out to be a "business-person". I certainly am not. Same with boss, I'm not a team player at all.

I don't mind small talk sometimes but there has to be some kind of common ground. For example with conservative family-first suit types I have nothing to talk about and it feels awkward to make conversation, but with the leather/mesh/blue hair alt/goth types I can talk for hors.

senordevnyc2• 1 month ago

It’s legit funny who you’re responding to with this exhortation on how to be a successful boss / business-person.

csomar• 1 month ago

The trick to talking to strangers, in my experience, is to find an opportune moment where you have a reason to talk to them (ie: you are both looking at the same departure timetable and you ask about a particular train/flight). The response will determine whether the stranger is open to carrying on a conversation. Of course, if their presence in the shared space is short, this makes it harder as these opportunities are not always present.

Smoking is probably the best lubricant (ie: borrowing a lighter, asking about a brand/vape, etc.) and people when they smoke are usually more open to strike a conversation. That's not an endorsement of smoking (and I've quit very recently).

embedding-shape6• 1 month ago

I don't remember any time in my life where it ever felt normal to me to randomly talk to strangers. [...] And I'm not an introvert!

Life's so interesting sometimes! I consider myself an introvert, and I don't remember any point in time where it ever felt abnormal to talk randomly to the humans ("strangers") around you, regardless if you know them or not. We're both humans, why not see who the other one right next to you are? :) Maybe I'm just "too curious".

It was kind of confusing growing up in Sweden, where most people don't share this idea, so of course it felt really isolating when almost zero strangers actually engage even a tiny bit. Luckily, I figured out I lived in the wrong country relatively quick, and now live in a country (Spain) much more aligned with my own mindset, and having the time of my life chatting with everyone and everything, and they even respond back!

9dev5• 1 month ago

why do you consider yourself an introvert if you enjoy chatting with everyone and everything?

bambax• 1 month ago

I don't like talking to strangers and I would consider myself rather introvert, although not extremely (I'm more of a misanthropist, maybe). That said, talking to strangers is really quite easy; I do it sometimes, esp. to entertain my friends while walking on a busy street. It's quite fun. It can happen that you plunge into deep conversations too, with someone you met just seconds ago!

datsci_est_20153• 1 month ago

Technology and culture evolve together - I don’t think it’s a dichotomy.

Teenagers today are probably more likely to share your disinclination towards social interaction because they grew up during a time when AirPods are so ubiquitous.

micromacrofoot• 1 month ago

I actually use AirPods to assist my hearing in loud environments, but this aside...

I think there's also the consideration of: how often have you really wanted a stranger to talk to you on the bus. I've talked to a few women about this, and they don't leave home without headphones because it gives them an excuse to ignore strangers hitting on them in public.

righthand• 1 month ago

Phones/Screens and headphones are being optimized to blind you and deafen you from the real world. You dont care though because it creates a pseudo-safe-zone through social status signaling (look at my expensive headphones in my ears, I look so cool and technologically advanced!).

ryukoposting2• 1 month ago

I see people walking around with airpods in and all I see is that dude from 2010 with the shaved head, Oakley sunglasses, and one of those Jabra single-ear Bluetooth things.

shevis• 1 month ago

Heavy headphone use makes people feel lonelier, the survey found.

Correlation for sure, I’m less sure about causation though. It seems equally likely to me that other factors are driving increased social anxiety/isolation which in turn drives people to wear headphones to avoid social interactions.

AussieWog93• 1 month ago

I'll chuck autism and overstimulation in there too. There's a reason that there's the stereotype of the autist wearing their noise-cancelling headphones.

wolvoleo23• 1 month ago

Yes and they are a great help.

Even though I'm AuDHD (and more ADHD than Autism in that) I do appreciate the silence when I feel like it.

I use them more with just noise cancelling on than I do with music. And never ever podcasts, I have zero patience for those.

basisword8• 1 month ago

> It seems equally likely to me that other factors are driving increased social anxiety

Social anxiety thrives on avoidance. It's a feedback loop. So likely it's correlation + causation. Your anxious so you wear the headphones to block out the world which only breeds more anxiety.

DanHulton• 1 month ago

Correlation ... causation

Yeah, I'm surprised this isn't highlighted more in these comments. "A small study" and "an article" and such seems to be the basis for this article, and yet there's seemingly no work done to identify if it's actually that people's attitudes have changed, and they're adopting headphones because of that.

It's not as if there's been major, literal earth-changing events that happened in incredibly recent memory that might have changed how people socialize or interact or anything, right? Let's just blame a specific brand of a piece of technology that has existed for decades, instead.

wiseowise5• 1 month ago

Author had a shower thought and decided to write “insightful” post. Tale as old as time.

hydrolox• 1 month ago

looks like the seashells of Fahrenheit-451 were inevitable

nytesky• 1 month ago

A friend of mine from back home mentioned he hadn't heard anything about the White House UFC fight because he's solely focused on himself right now. Honestly, I think that’s becoming ubiquitous; all of us are navel-gazing and trying to "optimize" looks, diet, exercise, Ai skills, supplements. We can sit through four hours of a Joe Rogan podcast, there are so many long form podcasts! We are all just living inside our own little bubbles now.

ryukoposting2• 1 month ago

I didn't realize that research on this topic was so sparse, I just took it as a fact that people wearing airpods don't socialize in public.

When I was in college, the line "he can't hear you, he has airpods in" was a meme. It was used as a jab at someone who wasn't paying attention because they had wireless earbuds in. So I know I'm not the only one who feels that way.

jagged-chisel3• 1 month ago

I have a hard time understanding someone so oblivious as to need telling not to try talking to someone with earbuds in.

You can see them. Don’t talk to me. If you must, get my attention first with a wave or something - don’t touch me.

dingaling• 1 month ago

Do you apply this rule in reverse? If you need to speak to someone who isn't wearing earphones, do you wave at them first or do you just start talking to them?

I suspect the latter.

trhway2• 1 month ago

When Walkman came out:

https://www.freethink.com/consumer-tech/sony-walkman-technop...

"Some said it was a sign of a continued rise of Reagan- and Thatcher-style individualism. Cultural critic Allan Bloom deemed the Walkman “a nonstop…masturbational fantasy” in his 1987 book “The Closing of the American Mind.” Neo-Luddite John Zerzan saw the Walkman as part of a modern trend that encouraged a “protective sort of withdrawal from social connections.” Thomas Lipscomb, chief of the Center for the Digital Future, equated it with the euphoric drug “soma,” from Aldous Huxley’s “Brave New World,” creating, as he put it, “an airtight bubble of sound” that was nothing but a “sensory depressant.”

...

The Walkman, critics claimed, was more than just music to one’s ears. It was a tool of societal disconnect ... "

Personally i wear AirPods only in one ear - don't want to be struck by anything i didn't hear coming, and that also doubles the battery time.

Petersipoi• 1 month ago

don't want to be struck by anything i didn't hear coming

Airpods Pro with transparency mode is the best for this

trhway2• 1 month ago

I don't in general trust the tech, saying that as someone who programmed computer the first time in 1987 :)

And having music in both ears, nice stereo, etc., definitely decreases situational awareness even if the outside sounds come through fine.

kylemaxwell• 1 month ago

Eh. I'm autistic and audio overstimulation is very real for me. When out at a restaurant or similar public place, I often have my AirPods in with nothing playing, just noise cancellation. I can still chat with my wife or whomever is with me and hear them, albeit muffled, but it keeps everything else down and manageable. Perhaps I could get some of those Loops, which I understand are less obtrusive.

jorisw7• 1 month ago

I don't know that I'm autistic but I've grown very sensitive to nuisances over the years, which is why I wear them any time I'm not with someone I know.

I use the Background Sounds feature on the iPhone, set to Dark Noise, in public transit if there are loud people nearby that my music isn't drowning out. Recommend trying it out. There's a Control Centre shortcut for it too (with an ear icon).

wolvoleo23• 1 month ago

Yeah I use them for that too. I use loops a lot in clubs etc and people sometimes comment on them and I explain and they're fine about it.

I can hear them better anyway and I have some degree of hearing damage so I prefer them in for protection in those cases.

ActorNightly• 1 month ago

Americans are speaking to one another far less than they used to. According to that study, the number of spoken words uttered by the average person fell by 28% between 2005 and 2019. Each year during that time period, the number of words people spoke in an average day declined.

I wonder what the difference is between this, and culture in EU where small talk isn't really a thing.

jvican• 1 month ago

The EU is large and most importantly very diverse. Pretty much all the West and South of Europe has a very strong small talk culture. You shall not stereotype a country, and even less so a political and economical union of countries.

galleywest200• 1 month ago

The US is larger than Europe and importantly very diverse, a melting pot you could say. You will find people in the South are far more talkative than people in the Northwest. The “Seattle Freeze” is real and I believe that it does not exist to the same extent in the South.

wolvoleo23• 1 month ago

And within those regions it differs a lot too. Here in a big Spanish city you would find very little too, especially in summer when there's so many tourists.

comrade1234• 1 month ago

Do tattoos too. American living in Switzerland and it's shocking when I go back.

sejje• 1 month ago

What are the social effects of tattoos?

stavros• 1 month ago

Too much beautiful art walking around.

weberer• 1 month ago

If you go to Japan, they won't let you enter most onsens. You see a lot of one star reviews from angry tourists who didn't know ahead of time.

wolvoleo23• 1 month ago

Ohh I love tattoos, as long as they are arty and not gaudy.

Most people here in Spain have beautiful tattoos <3

k2xl• 1 month ago

"You Can't Miss It" https://k2xl.substack.com/p/you-cant-miss-it

Barbing4• 1 month ago

I’m so with you, thanks Markham!

tines• 1 month ago

Americans are speaking less and less to one another. The number of spoken words uttered by the average person fell by 28% between 2005 and 2019.

Is it just me or does anyone else turn skeptical when seeing these precise numbers given to something that seems essentially impossible to measure with this accuracy?

projektfu4• 1 month ago

That's the central measure of 338 fewer words per day, but the 95% confidence interval was 25–652 fewer words.

https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/10.1177/17456916261425131

There is an interview with the authors here:

https://phys.org/news/2026-04-people-spoken-words-year-years...

projektfu4• 1 month ago

I should add, 338 fewer words per day per year, cumulatively 28% fewer. It's a little clumsily written.

walth• 1 month ago

Come to the Midwest. Over friendly. Zero air pods effect.

Mistletoe2• 1 month ago

All my co-workers wear those and I hate it. Any attempt to talk to them about work or personal subjects means they have to hit their ear and pause it. It just makes me want to say nothing.

jwrallie• 1 month ago

That could be an advantage if your work requires some kind of sustained concentration, for the other party at least.

I like using by headphones (which are big and over the ears) as a way to signal when I’m on concentration mode and don’t want to talk, but I do that maybe 30-40% of the time.

satvikpendem3• 1 month ago

That is by design, so they are not interrupted by random coworkers.

Mistletoe2• 1 month ago

Well we are a science lab and need to constantly communicate about work so that’s not good.

PaulHoule• 1 month ago

Kinda funny but I think this situation is less bad than it was a year ago.

For a while it seemed like young people were hard of hearing like the elderly, somebody would be camped in a weight machine at the gym resting for 30 minutes and I’d have to stick my hand in their face to get their attention or they’d be walking down the street and I couldn’t warn them about hazards on the sidewalk.

Maybe it just doesn’t bother me anymore or maybe they’ve wised up.

karpovv-boris• 1 month ago

I did notice the self-isolation effect of wearing any headphones a long time ago. Now, after a few years of using AirPods and finally switching back to cheap cable headphones only for work calls, it actually helps a lot for my brain to register context changes much more easily. And if you have adhd I highly recommend trying to do the same.

9x39• 1 month ago

I didn't fight a culture change in our work dynamic as we went from an extroverted office to a mostly headphones-on culture where people would even sometimes type instead of talk in certain meetings. In the end, I don't think it mattered except that resisting change and insisting on my way could have (would have) backfired.

Didn't see any data in the article, not that I disagree, yet what if AirPods allow a return to normality for those who wish to have some distance?

Maybe everyone's just had to put up with extroverted norms until AirPods and mobile phones came along.

Q: Do you consider yourself more introverted or more extroverted?

9% Completely introverted

29% More introverted than extroverted

31% About an equal mix of extroverted and introverted

15% More extroverted than introverted

7% Completely extroverted

9% Not sure

n=1000 2023 YouGov internet poll

https://docs.cdn.yougov.com/rwpllcwimy/Introverts%20and%20Ex...

Also, Susan Cain's book Quiet claimed 1/3 to 1/2 of the population are introverted. (Who knows)

alberth3• 1 month ago

Tinnitus

I swear my tinnitus is a result of use of AirPods.

I never wore any type of earphones ever. Then started using AirPods for calls, during workouts or on a plane. A year later I developed tinnitus and the only thing that changed in my life was wearing AirPods.

I’m no doctor, and who knows what caused my tinnitus. But it’s irreversible. I constantly hear a humming ring now and it’s super distracting, especially trying to go to bed.

I’m no doctor. But heads up for those who haven’t used inner ear headphones.

teruakohatu• 1 month ago

I swear my tinnitus is a result of use of AirPods.

Have you had your hearing checked out by an audiologist? Any hearing loss?

Hearing loss (age) and damage (loud noise) are the most likely culprits.

alberth3• 1 month ago

Yes. Checked out twice.

No hearing loss at all.

My hearing is actually better than age appropriate, so the doctors say I’ll just have to live with it because they can’t detect it.

yesitcan• 1 month ago

You forgot to mention the part where this happened recently. You’ll habituate soon and forget about it.

Source: got bad tinnitus from motorcycling, became depressed with suicidal ideation and then got over it.

alberth3• 1 month ago

Happened 4-years ago.

I still notice it every night at bed. Or anytime it’s quiet.

I try not to think about it, because I feel like it gets amplified when I do.

But it’s daily for the last 4-years :(

Hope you’re ok now. Please see someone if you’re not.

microtonal3• 1 month ago

I swear my tinnitus is a result of use of AirPods.

This comes up every now and then, similarly people say it is caused by noise cancellation. I have looked into this once out of interest, but there doesn't seem to be much scientific evidence for this. Unless you put them at a far too loud volume of course (or presumably block your ear canal all the time and it causes infections).

A high percentage of the western population switched to noise cancelling headphones and earbuds the last ten years or so. There is also a base rate of developing tinnitus in the population. So, it is more likely to just be a coincidence.

wolvoleo23• 1 month ago

Hearing damage causing (eventually) tinnitus is cumulative so it could well have been that you were already building it up.

Mc_Big_G• 1 month ago

I've been wearing Airpod Pro 2s for 5 years and had no increase in my tinnitus (caused by many years of playing guitar and drums). I only wore Airpod Pro 3s for 3 days and my tinnitus increased by 3-5x. Thankfully, it went back to normal or almost normal after a few weeks. I now have a brand new pair of airpods I can't use.

Googling reveals others with the same issue with Airpod Pro 3s.

cadamsdotcom• 1 month ago

To me it’s just a proxy for the amount of economic activity in a place.

Every time I go to Melbourne airport in Australia, I’m shocked that nobody - nobody - has their laptop out. In Sydney a few people do. But go to any airport in the US and if not a majority are on laptops at least a large minority seem to be..

So yes - airpods in ears, laptops in airports, city lights at night. Just a sign of how plugged in everyone is to “something” that’s happening.

inigyou7• 1 month ago

Not all activity is economic activity and not all economic activity is valuable. People outside the US aren't generally expected to work 24/7

hug• 1 month ago

It's totally incorrect to state that the area served by either Sydney or Melbourne airport has less economic activity than the area served by "any airport in the US", or even the vast majority of US airports, so whatever laptops-at-airport (and I suppose airpods-in-ears) is a proxy for it sure isn't economic activity.

groan• 1 month ago

Lack of shared values and things to bond over.

SpyCoder77• 1 month ago

Public, not pubic

I felt like half the people around me in pubic had some kind of device-connected earwear on their head.

CompoundEyes• 1 month ago

Not if they’re listening to Bush

lograv• 1 month ago

This sounds sad to say, but I went on a walk outside, my AirPods died and realized I hadn’t listened to the outside world in a long time. Was a nice reminder to take a breath sometimes and enjoy the world. I think we all forget that

try_the_bass3• 1 month ago

The thought of intentionally deafening myself to the outside world, even partially, is unnerving, because I can't stand the thought of nerfing my own situational awareness to that degree. Especially in fast-paced environments, like city streets, where sounds can carry such important signal.

Even watching someone else walk around a city with headphones/earbuds in is something that makes me uncomfortable by proxy. It's like someone deciding that walking around with beer goggles is a good idea

number6• 1 month ago

They have a situational awarenes mode

parodysbird2• 1 month ago

I live in cities, and I usually walk around 15-20k steps every day for the last decade in cities. I listen to music or podcasts in my earbuds, and often I read stuff on chat on my phone as I walk. I have never run into anything, and never had any issue bumping into people or cyclists. It's perfectly possible for some people to navigate just fine in their environment while dealing with multiple stimuli, and in fact that's exactly why I love walking so much more than sitting. Having earbuds or using my phone at the same time for me is certainly nothing like being intoxicated while walking. It's important to not project one's experience as how it must also be for everyone else.

basisword8• 1 month ago

You think you do. You're just not aware of how many people are dodging you to prevent collisions :)

throwaway20378• 1 month ago

    > 15-20k steps every day

15k steps is 10 to 12km per day. How do you find the time? There is no way that I have enough time in my life to walk more than 10km per day everyday.

try_the_bass3• 1 month ago

But so you have a baseline to compare this against?

You don't know what you doing know, after all.

wolvoleo23• 1 month ago

You can turn most of them into transparency mode too. I do that sometimes when I'm in an area where I feel unsafe. So I can hear people sneaking up on me.

try_the_bass3• 1 month ago

Transparency mode is better, but it isn't perfect. The simple fact that you have something else producing noise in close proximity to your ears is enough to disrupt your ability to hear other things, even if they're also making it to your ears with high fidelity.

I mean, noise cancelling works by producing more noise, not less; and there will be plenty of times when what's outside with destructively interfere with what you're listening to, or vice versa.

This may be hard to do in a city, but a good test is to go outside on a quiet night, wearing only on one ear, and then turn your head back and forth to alternate ears while trying to listen to specific distant sounds. It'll really highlight just how many things are still being filtered out.

Or it'll demonstrate how much more deaf you might be in one ear :P

crote• 1 month ago

A lot of women wear headphones / earpods without playing anything on them. It is a great way to stop men from trying to flirt to you, as you've got a convenient excuse to just completely ignore them!

And the lack of music is for the same reason: you need to be aware of the men trying to harass you.

junto• 1 month ago

Came to say the same. It’s a very useful tool to stop having to deal with being bothered by strangers whilst I go about my day in public spaces.

korginator• 1 month ago

The noise levels everywhere in our cities overwhelms me. The constant chatter of people all around, e.g., a loud conversation in close proximity, people blasting some TikTok garbage on the train, or someone approaching me trying to sell me something when I'm simply walking - I'd rather avoid all of this.

I'm usually playing dark noise on noise cancelling earphones most of the time, and that helps me tune out the constant, stress inducing bombardment of unwelcome auditory inputs.

wolvoleo23• 1 month ago

You make a very good point I didn't yet think of. Usually if someone tries to talk to me on the street it's something bad. A scammer, a thief, someone with those stupid clipboards trying to collect money for a cause. Some political campaign. It's rarely something positive.

sublinear• 1 month ago

If you want that warmth, you have to invite it in. It has nothing to do with the airpods.

Do you ever sit somewhere in public fully relaxed without a care in the world? Do you ever poke your head up to see who else is looking at what you're looking at? Is your expression neutral or natural?

There's always someone nearby doing the same. What happens when you spot them? Don't overthink it.

swesour• 1 month ago

Walking around cars or in cities, especially in New York, is incredibly loud. The ANC protect my ears on the subways and streets.

jorisw7• 1 month ago

Where I live, in southwest Germany, AirPods are far less common.

FWIW I live in Amsterdam (also western Europe) and anyone in the streets under 50 is wearing them, myself included.

They keep them in while ordering and paying for things in stores and supermarkets.

As a GenYer I find this rude and I'll take them out any time I interact with someone.

My point being that their ubiquity doesn't have to mean people being rude or indifferent to eachother.

I think people have the right to choose comfort and focus, anywhere outside of a conversation with another person.

camillomiller• 1 month ago

> As a GenYer I find this rude and I'll take them out any time I interact with someone.

Interesting point. Airpods actually work great as hearing aids and I personally use that in loud environments, but I find myself cringing when I do because exactly of what you say. So maybe normalizing their use even when interacting is fine? Still, I can't shake off the idea that I'm not fully connected with you if I'm talking to you and I'm wearing something in my ears...

jorisw7• 1 month ago

Yeah, to me personally it just seems like treating the other person (e.g. a cashier or waiter) like a tool or utility rather than a human being. Even if your music is paused (which they can't know)

Hoodedcrow3• 1 month ago

> They keep them in while ordering and paying for things in stores and supermarkets.
As a GenYer I find this rude and I'll take them out any time I interact with someone.

I don't take my headphones off while paying for things in a supermarket - because you aren't really expected to talk or listen in this scenario, and the cashier doesn't want to interact with you either. But for anything more involved, like ordering something in a coffeeshop - yeah, absolutely.

jorisw7• 1 month ago

aren't really expected to talk

This is an assumption that I would interpret as rude if I were the cashier

suprfnk• 1 month ago

you aren't really expected to talk or listen in this scenario

Absolutely bizarre. The cashier is not some sort of robot.

titanomachy2• 1 month ago

I think people have the right to comfort and focus

Focus on what?

jorisw7• 1 month ago

Kind of expected this question.

For me, on my own thoughts, rather than other peoples' conversations.

wolvoleo23• 1 month ago

Yeah I take them out too. The only exception is ear protectors (loops) which I wear in discoteques/parties. When I talk to people I don't usually take them out because I wear them for protection. If they notice I will explain and they don't mind.

In fact it's easier to hear them with those in anyway. I'm just very sensitive to sound and I have already damaged my hearing a bit when I was young.

rikima_2• 1 month ago

good that every AH has selfscankassa and i don’t need to take out anything

h0nd• 1 month ago

Most headphones these days are also a headset, allowing for bi-directional communication. Does it make a difference?

steve197710• 1 month ago

What I find interesting is that the article seems to imply that wearing earbuds to isolate is somewhat "unnatural" (for lack of a better term).

However it does not take into account that the kind of social interactions where people wear earbuds (i.e. loud and busy environments with many strangers, often physically closer than comfortable) is unnatural to begin with.

For me, isolating myself acoustically is a way to normalize such environments back to a more "natural" setting.

nicbou• 1 month ago

Yes! When walking along busy streets, I put my airpods on without music just to remove some of the car noise.

embedding-shape6• 1 month ago

I do the same when visiting large metropolitan areas! I don't want to be completely deaf, but reducing all the high-pitched noises and rumbling really makes my perception see/hear the environment more calmly.

OkGoDoIt• 1 month ago

Whenever I try to do that, the noise canceling amplifies the wind noise so much it winds up being louder and less comfortable than not wearing them at all.

gijsnijholt1980• 1 month ago

Agreed. Unrelated pro-tip: wearing them while riding a motorcycle. Reduces fatigue and transforms a rough experience into almost luxurious. Highly recommended.

ginko• 1 month ago

Being able to hear your surroundings on a motorcycle or bicycle seems very important for safety to me. Filtering that out feels dangerous.

wcrossbow• 1 month ago

Sorry but no! On my corner of the world it's not allowed but more importantly it's dangerous. When riding your bike you must have all your senses fully engaged. First day I got on my new ride my dad gave me a piece of biker wisdom: You are the weakest and smallest vehicle () on the road, watch out and drive like nobody can see you or cares about you.

() Bicycles and other light vehicles excluded

Neywiny• 1 month ago

When I got my (admittedly car) license they made it clear that's illegal. Hasn't stopped people from doing it but yeah don't. Maybe get a quieter exhaust

GJim5• 1 month ago

Stupidly dangerous and (in my country) illegal.

Please retract your comment and don't encourage such stupidity.

EDIT: Since this is being misinterpreted... Earplugs that deaden sound are fine and encouraged on a motorbike, playing music in your ears is what masks other sound and is both stupid and illegal.

asdfsa324• 1 month ago

Do you ride for economic reasons?

wazoox• 1 month ago

In Europe it's strictly forbidden to wear headphones under the helmet. In case of a fall the in-ear device could cause grave injuries. Wearing a recent helmet and protective gloves with hardened knuckles is of course mandatory. But many helmets are equipped with bluetooth speakers and mike, of course.

throw0101c4• 1 month ago

Agreed. Unrelated pro-tip: wearing them while riding a motorcycle. Reduces fatigue and transforms a rough experience into almost luxurious. Highly recommended.

What kind of NRR rating, active or passive, do they have?

I wear disposable foam plugs when riding, and haven't ever considered using the AirPods I have. I find the sound of the machine part of the experience of riding and wouldn't really want to get rid of it; I treat the moto sound as a kind of white noise that's different that everything else in my life (though this is with a short-ish commute, and not long-distance drudgery).

If I wanted music or comms I would probably lean more towards ear plugs plus a Cardo/Sena unit. Or perhaps something with an official ANSI/CSA NRR rating, like Isotunes.

poncho_romero20• 1 month ago

So you're making noise for everyone else, while enjoying silence yourself?

multjoy4• 1 month ago

You should be wearing ear protection in any case. The fact that the AirPods have a published SNL is a bonus.

paganel• 1 month ago

(i.e. loud and busy environments with many strangers, often physically closer than comfortable) is unnatural to begin with.

That's very natural when it comes to life in an urban setting. Love it or hate it, we wouldn't have been here now (I'm talking from a civilizational pov) without us humans moving into the cities.

randallsquared• 1 month ago

I think the argument is that the urban setting itself is ancestrally unnatural. Only a tiny proportion of humans lived in areas full of strangers in close proximity until the last hundred or two hundred years, which is not long enough for any related changes to spread widely given generation length.

steve197710• 1 month ago

we wouldn't have been here now (I'm talking from a civilizational pov) without us humans moving into the cities.

What do you have in mind specifically?

Edit: I'm aware that statistically, there's more inventions in metropolitan areas. However I'm not sure how much of that we can really attribute to causal effects that are unique to cities, especially today. Obviously, many universities are in metropolitan areas, but on the other hand, we have many tools for remote collaboration that we didn't have 200 years ago. So I'm not sure if cities are not an outdated concept.

datsci_est_20153• 1 month ago

I would even argue that being surrounded by people is a natural state. Being isolated in a suburban home or an automobile is probably just as unnatural as being “surrounded by strangers”.

Our ancient ancestors probably did all of the following within eyesight and earshot of around 40 people:

  - Eating
  - Drinking
  - Defecating
  - Fornicating
  - Bathing
  - Exercising

Privacy and isolation are a very modern phenomenon. Even in the 19th century social norms around fornication and defecation and the privacy expected are much different than today.

Edit: I’m also deeply fascinated by the ability of historical sociolinguistics to give us insight into cultural attitudes towards different topics. Consider the evolution of and the attitude towards the expletives “fuck” and “Jesus Christ!”

asdfsa324• 1 month ago

Strongly feeling a need to isolate yourself is not healthy and unnatural.

vitally3643• 1 month ago

Just because you personally disagree with something does not make it a universal wrong.

Thinking so is immature and unwise behavior.

ekidd• 1 month ago

This varies enormously by where you live.

I live out in the countryside. If I run into someone in the road, I will nod my head, maybe introduce myself, and maybe chat, if the other person is interested. (To be fair, I know about 80% of the people I see in the road.) This is normal behavior. Sometimes, two cars will pass each other and stop to talk.

I have also lived in the city. If a stranger wants to talk to me in the city, either they're looking for directions (happy to help!), or they are deeply confused about appropriate social behavior in crowded spaces. In the latter case, I'm lucky if the stranger-with-no-boundaries merely wants to warn me about the dangers of the lizard people. So I've learned to ignore strangers.

Cthulhu_3• 1 month ago

I'd agree in general terms, but I don't think city life or existing in busy and noisy spaces is either. Isolating as described (by putting on noise-canceling earphones) is a way to manage and reduce sensory input to something within your own control.

Some people are comfortable with that, some people (say they) are used to it, but a lot of people find that blocking it out works better for them.

Gareth3213• 1 month ago

As they explain, living in such close proximity to thousands of strangers is also not how we evolved. The earphones are an adaptive strategy. Like masks on public transport during pandemics. We don't have to adapt to modern society, but we can make it more pleasant in various ways, depending on our preferences.

brianleb• 1 month ago

This is a very un-nuanced and combative take on a lot of people's lives. It reminds me of it being socially acceptable for the extrovert to say to the introvert, "Why don't you talk more?" while it is not acceptable for the introvert to say to the extrovert, "Why don't you talk less?"

tokai• 1 month ago

Writing comments on HN is also completely unnatural.

kashunstva• 1 month ago

…not healthy and unnatural

I don’t think you can say this categorically without taking context and a myriad of facets of one’s socio-emotional situation into consideration.

_the_inflator• 1 month ago

Exactly.

Noise cancelling is a treasure.

And what I really like about them is the ease of use.

The moment I start talking to someone, automagically the NC is paused as well as any audio you were listening to.

It sounds so easy but is really running smoothly. Over time Apple really perfected the workings.

This blend is what makes them so valuable for me. I don’t have to manually do anything, simply speak and interact without having to touch them.

This is what bothered me really well, especially at work. Headset on, headset off - not anymore.

And people now don’t feel neglected when you keep the Pods in your ear.

Social reconditioning was part of the problem so to say. This tool is now accepted.

Well deserved. I am buying another pair of the AirPods Pro. I want a bit of safety after I temporarily lost one ear pod - I felt so disturbed, suddenly not being able to enjoy freedom acoustically anymore. Just to make sure and switch between them.

dd8601fn• 1 month ago

They seem to have done so much work on the magic behaviors of the airpods (most of which I don’t have occasions to use) but they still work worse than a $35 pair of Ankers when it comes to just connecting, staying connected, and playing music without issue.

They’re especially flaky if you’re using them with apples watch.

I spent a few bucks on the pros, and the phone, and the watch, and the mini, and the tv, and the laptops. I shouldn’t be leaving that ecosystems ear buds in the drawer because the borderline disposable ones off amazon are the pair that “just work”.

basisword8• 1 month ago

> The moment I start talking to someone, automagically the NC is paused as well as any audio you were listening to.

This is one of those features I thought would be great and unfortunately had to disable in minutes. If you ever listen to music and sing along, even for a few seconds, the volume cuts because it thinks you're talking to someone. It's a shame. There's so many really great AirPods features and I feel like I've had to disable almost all of them for one reason or another.

> And people now don’t feel neglected when you keep the Pods in your ear. Social reconditioning was part of the problem so to say. This tool is now accepted.

I think it'll get there eventually but it's still far from accepted in my opinion. Maybe if you're ordering at a Starbucks or something but if someone was trying to have a conversation with my with AirPods in I'd consider it rude. And even if it's becomes widely accepted I think it'll still have some mild stigma (equivalent to wearing sunglasses when having a conversation unless the sun is in your eyes).

mrinterweb2• 1 month ago

And people now don’t feel neglected when you keep the Pods in your ear.

I disagree with this. Pods in ears are essentially a "do not disturb" sign for most people. Being around people who regularly have the "do not disturb" sign feels neglecting. People who might initiate conversation don't know if they will even be heard if they try to talk, so why bother. I would rather be alone than in a room of people who are actively ignoring each other.

I dislike the NC pause because it often awkwardly unpauses when someone is replying to you. I just pop the earbuds out when I start talking. To me, speaking with earbuds in is rude, and I want to show the courtesy to the person I'm talking to that they have my attention.

abdullahkhalids• 1 month ago

(i.e. loud and busy environments with many strangers, often physically closer than comfortable) is unnatural to begin with.

What is unnatural about this? We have plenty of anthropological evidence that humans have been doing massive festivals for at least many thousands of years i.e. people voluntarily gathering together with strangers in loud and busy environments with all sorts of sounds and smells.

bawolff2• 1 month ago

We still have festival type experiences: concerts, street festivals, gatherings in a park, church, etc. None of them particularly look like the bus.

albedoa• 1 month ago

Ah yes, that natural many-thousand-year-old massive festival tradition we all know and love: the twice-daily subway ride. Good comparison.

steve197710• 1 month ago

For one, when and where this was the case, it was probably once a year or so.* Not daily or weekly.

Furthermore, the "voluntarily" bit plays a big role as well. If I were to go to a big festival (as you can guess, I wouldn't), then I guess I would be fine with the people. But that's not the same as commuting IMHO, where I'm together with lots of people involuntarily.

* it's an interesting topic actually, so if you have any sources, I'd like to read them.

wiseowise5• 1 month ago

We have anthropological evidence that humans lived like sardines in a can 24/7? Where?

seizethecheese• 1 month ago

Funny how new technology is unnatural but old technology, (that existed before we were born, like cars, streets, subways) are “natural”.

m12k• 1 month ago

Douglas Adams summed it up eloquently:

“I've come up with a set of rules that describe our reactions to technologies:

1. Anything that is in the world when you’re born is normal and ordinary and is just a natural part of the way the world works.

2. Anything that's invented between when you’re fifteen and thirty-five is new and exciting and revolutionary and you can probably get a career in it.

3. Anything invented after you're thirty-five is against the natural order of things.”

culi2• 1 month ago

Humans have always crowded in busy markets, gone to large and loud parties, etc.

SauntSolaire• 1 month ago

Is this sarcasm?

FerretFred• 1 month ago

Interesting .. when we first moved to my current house we knew it was a quiet neighbourhood, helped by being set back from the main road. What I wasn't prepared for was the absolute silence in the early morning - it was what I imagine deafness would be like, if earbuds can achieve something approaching that, then take my money.

chasd002• 1 month ago

I think ears adapt to silence the way eyes adapt to darkness. When camping on some land I have is SE Oklahoma it’s so quiet I eventually begin to hear the conversations of our neighbors on their porch maybe a 1/2 mile away.

fuzzygaz• 1 month ago

They have even more utility for folks on the spectrum who can struggle with sensory overload.

oxonia• 1 month ago

They are useful for blocking the obnoxious sounds that modern life impose upon us. The largest consumer hardware chain in Australia, 'Bunnings', plays a notice over the store loudspeakers regularly (perhaps every 15-30 minutes) warning that violence against staff will not be tolerated.

I'm not in any way an anxious person, but for some reason, the constant suggestion that I'm in a place where violence is a risk makes me feel upset so much that I don't visit my local store without my noise-cancelling AirPods.

antonymoose• 1 month ago

Is it just me or do places that have “no violence against staff” warnings tend to have the rudest staff? It’s starting to become a signal that the place is best avoided.

Unfortunately that avoidance doesn’t work too well for TSA or my local hospital.

tamimio• 1 month ago

Most times when I wear them (or any other Bluetooth headphones) they are turned off, just so no one talk to me.

bschwindHN• 1 month ago

Tangentially related, but it's interesting to use airpods in hyper-busy train stations in Japan like Shinjuku station, where you have a huge mass of people, and a large majority of people using bluetooth earbuds of some sort. A train rolls up and the sheer amount of 2.4GHz traffic can jam your own audio for a bit. It's an interesting stress test of radio interference.

gspr• 1 month ago

They keep them in while ordering and paying for things in stores and supermarkets.

This hit me. I often use headphones during chores, including going grocery shopping. I love human interaction, but not while pickings things into my shopping basket. For years I'd also leave them in when paying (audio paused, of course). It took a cashier tell me I was being rude before I realized. She was absolutely right, of course. I do make an effort to visibly remove my headphones when expecting human interaction now. A big thanks to that cashier, and my apologies!

robert-boehnke• 1 month ago

Where I live, in southwest Germany, AirPods are far less common.

Seems like there’s a high probability the author just drives everywhere at home.

tacker2000• 1 month ago

The author is a "Firm believer that humankind took a wrong turn with the invention of the smartphone." and has a new book coming out, so naturally he is trying to push some anti-tech narrative.

No, headphones don't make people antisocial. If someone is wearing headphones, respect their privacy and just leave them alone. Some people just don't like to chat to random people on the subway or at the supermarket. Some people just don't see the value of mundane conversations with strangers.

It depends on the culture and personality. Some people like it, some don't. In the US, people are more inclined to chat to strangers, and in Germany for example they aren't. These differences are actually what make us "human", so it's not a binary decision of: talking to strangers == good, and headphones == bad.

jorisw7• 1 month ago

I don't think the author presents it as such a binary decision though.

The fact is that in practice, it's either headphones in or out when in public. Meaning wearing them all the time effectively means IRL Do Not Disturb.

I think we need regular doses of real human contact — not just with close friends, but with acquaintances, and even with strangers — to counterbalance all the negativity we encounter in the news and online, and to remind us that, on the whole, people are kind and well-meaning.

I think the author may have a point here, but he'll be hard pressed to convince anyone to give up the benefits of 'sonic isolation' through music and noise cancelation that people seem to have discovered.

wiseowise5• 1 month ago

I think we need regular doses of real human contact — not just with close friends, but with acquaintances, and even with strangers — to counterbalance all the negativity we encounter in the news and online, and to remind us that, on the whole, people are kind and well-meaning.

Well how about cut all the negative bs so there’s nothing to counter-balance? Nobody forces you to read news if they affect you so much.

lnenad• 1 month ago

On a gut level I agree 100% as I'm feeling the same feelings and prefer no contact. But on a biological level it's definitely better to have more social interactions and talking to strangers specifically has many benefits to both you as an individual and for creating a better society.

abhaynayar• 1 month ago

I mean what do you want the author to write, cooking recipes? Where is he "pushing" it? Writing a substack related to the theme of the book you're writing is, apparently .. bad? Even if true, are we we not supposed to market things at all. Sure, there's a line after which shilling becomes distasteful, is that really the case here or is it an overreaction?

purpleflashing3• 1 month ago

I can image that because of motivation to sell his ideas and writing, he is in incentivized to sensationalize the research he refers too. Not that the author claims to be a scientific writer but many people find it intellectually dishonest to try to push your opinion and often clever but, ultimately, anecdotal observations about the world via “scientific” language.

ro_bit• 1 month ago

The author's going to be floored when he hears about video games

wolvoleo23• 1 month ago

Meh. When I was young the old people complained that everyone was wearing walkmans (with those metal band orange foam headphones lol). It's just old man shouting at cloud. And no, I don't want to talk to everyone. Piss off and leave me alone.

I also hate noise and I really love wearing my earbuds (I don't use Apple) with no audio but just the noise cancelling on when I'm on public transport or walking. Sometimes with nature sounds like rain if the coverage is not strong enough.

I never listen to podcasts by the way, I truly hate them. Same with youtube videos, I just don't have patience to consume content at someone else's pace.

Sweepi• 1 month ago

I think "Your Brain Needs Idle Time" is more important than the effect on random social interactions.

roryirvine• 1 month ago

That definitely applies to me, but I'm not sure everyone is the same.

Some people have the TV on every waking minute of the day, no matter what else they're doing. Some listen to music or podcasts in the same way. Others scroll through social media whilst eating or walking or even during conversations with other people.

It's not a new thing, either - constant background TV was definitely a thing at my grandparents' house when I was a child in the 1980s. Personally, I find the idea horrifying but I accept that I'm a bit of an outlier!

collinmcnulty2• 1 month ago

What I would really love is an option to have a small indicator light or visible signal on my earpiece that means “there’s no sound playing”. And if I’m using them just for noise cancellation but want to appear approachable, I can turn it on. Honestly would be great for sound my home, as sometimes I keep them in when doing chores just because I don’t have a free hand, but I would like my wife to know she can talk to and I’ll hear her.

lukan• 1 month ago

Outside I sometimes have headphones on without music, just so people do not approach me ..

But with your wife, doesn't eye contact work as communicating need for talk? Body language?

collinmcnulty2• 1 month ago

Sometimes I’m washing dishes and she walks into the room and doesn’t immediately know if there’s sound in my ears. It’d just be a nice little affordance to be able to proactively signal that.

bejd• 1 month ago

After reading about the default mode network here a few times recently, I think missing out on all that critical "daydreaming" time is a bigger problem. I've stopped listening to things while I'm out walking, and I've noticed a lot more solutions and ideas coming to me. The DMN seems to fall into a similar area as meditation (remember when that was all the rage among tech leaders?); the lowered input noise gives the brain time to clear things out.

coffeebeqn• 1 month ago

Just any time in your day where you’re not bombarded with external input is getting very rare

not_a_bot_4sho• 1 month ago

Far too much of this bombardment is self inflicted and very much related to smartphone use.

_trampeltier• 1 month ago

I miss daydreaming too. In younger years, I often had boring, repetitive work but I could daydream the full day. Then as more you need the brain for work, as less time you have to daydream. Now I have really cool work, but I can't daydream at all. Even I use mostly public transportation (train) and have my headphones with me, I rarely use they. I kind like to hear and feel the people around me.

auto• 1 month ago

In high school and college I worked at a Christmas tree farm, and eventually was also a landscaper/hardscaper, caring for, digging up and planting trees, and building retaining walls and patios. At the time it made for good motivation to keep doing well in school, as the hours were long, and while easy for a fit 18-22 year old, definitely back breaking kind of stuff.

However, looking back on it I miss those weeks and months on end of having 6+ hours a day to be outside, working my body, but doing tasks that let my mind wander all over. No doubt those years of daydreaming helped me become the person I am today, and everybody has to grow up at some point, but I do wish I could get more of that back into my daily life. In fact, I think a large part of my current path towards early retirement is just to have that sort of time back.

bilekas• 1 month ago

I'm a big fan of having noise cancelling earphones in with no music or audio when going for a walk. It's amazing how it forces you to think as you say and brings a kind of clarity.

Fnoord• 1 month ago

I am a big fan of walking around in nature (even parks) enjoying nature sounds. It positively affects my mood. Bird sounds are my favorite, but while in bed I love the rain outside.

c7b• 1 month ago

Sounds like the opposite of what the OP and GP were advocating for.

GaryNumanVevo• 1 month ago

ADHD + Airpods means that I'm often putting them in, and stepping out of the house and completely forgetting to put something on. I'll just walk around with the noise cancelling on and it's super nice in a busy city.

appreciatorBus• 1 month ago

Yeah, I have noticed this as well. When I’m trying to solve a difficult problem, it seems that way more ideas arrive to me unprompted when I take a break from heavy listening.

chrishill89• 1 month ago

After reading about the default mode network here a few times recently, I think missing out on all that critical "daydreaming" time is a bigger problem.

Part of the reason why I listen to music and scroll my phone is to get some peace from the default mode network.

I don't feel like I would do it as often if my mind didn't insist on being busy all the time.

The DMN seems to fall into a similar area as meditation (remember when that was all the rage among tech leaders?); the lowered input noise gives the brain time to clear things out.

I am not skilled enough in that department to say anything with certainty. But formal meditation is about intentionally focusing the mind, and the talkative mind or whatever it is called in the buddhist traditions is probably this default mode network. Which is the first obstacle; being able to focus on the meditation object without having your attention hijacked because oh what's for dinner, did I send that email, but what about that other email, oh but I couldn't log in on my phone, oh by the way that phone is also annoying in terms of that related thing, but I should stop using my phone as much anyway what about getting one of those dual SIM cards that I read about on HN.

In my experience, it's probably healthier for the mind to have the DMN active more than someone who can distract themselves all the time do. But to me DMT looks to meditation like sunbathing looks to a day's hike (yeah you're outside for both of these activities but).

goodmythical16• 1 month ago

I'll take the opportunity to add that there are as many meditative goals and techniques as there are cultures.

What you are describing is likely closest to certain forms of zazen, in which one tries to focus on just one thing or no-thing in order to quiet the mind.

However, just as common, is the various vipassana schools in which one attempts to gain specific insight through specific observation.

In the former, enlightenment comes from still states, in the latter from evolving states.

Then of course there are many visualization and trance traditions, though those are more common the further west you go from SEA.

All that is to say that not all meditation is simple sitting. There are walking meditations, dancing meditations, chanting meditations, visualizations, prayer, etc. And while they differ in technique, they all have the goal of achieving some specific state of mind.

samsolomon• 1 month ago

I've done the exact same. I frequently take walks and walk places and often used that time for an audio book or podcast. A zen revelation has been taking these walks and not bringing my phone. It's my daily meditation.

adolph• 1 month ago

The DMN seems to fall into a similar area as meditation

I'm curious about the relationship between mind wandering as exploration leading to insight and mind wandering as rumination. It seems like DMN is more associated with the latter. Its association with meditation likely comes from studies like the below.

Meditation leads to reduced default mode network activity beyond an active task

https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC4529365/

Aurornis• 1 month ago

I often put AirPods in and turn the noise cancellation on, but don't play any audio. Many other commenters mention the same thing.

Different people have different levels of ability to filter out background noise. Some people can focus and ignore the outside world so much that you have to wave a hand in front of their face if you need their attention. Other people can't help but parse background conversations and noises all around them.

Noise cancelling headphones level the playing field for people in the second category: It allows them to dial down the distractions and focus like the first group when their environment is fighting hard against it.

Even listening to background music has the same effect for many people. Music, especially familiar music, is not necessarily engaging enough to pull people out of their relaxed states and focus on the music.

tonic_note2• 1 month ago

I wouldn't go so far as to say the DMN is akin to mediation. The DMN what activates when your brain is not focused on the outside world, eg when you're reflecting on the past, or contemplating the future. That's almost precisely the opposite of mindfulness, which is about the somatic experience of the present moment.

To give you another perspective, I think I suffer from far too much DMN activity. It's very easy for "reflection" to slide into rumination. Increase DMN activity is highly correlated with depression. And I found daily mindfulness meditation to be incredibly helpful at counterbalancing that, spending less time in my head and more time in my embodied experience.

jzb• 1 month ago

This is not new. AirPods are newish, but this is not new. People have been wearing headphones in public spaces since the Walkman, if not before, in large numbers. You can probably find opinion columns bemoaning this shortly after the introduction of the Walkman.

malicka• 1 month ago

The seeming ubiquity is definitely new.

hnthrow102829102• 1 month ago

I live in a big city and notice this a lot as well. I’m starting to reduce my headphone usage. My hearing is getting worse at a young age.

I don’t think the default should be needing to have a soundtrack to your life. I’m a long distance runner and often run 15-20+ miles without music or headphones. It’s nice

codeduck• 1 month ago

I often use over-ear headphones as ear-protectors rather than sound sources. It muffles the outside world, leaving me free to think.

I suspect in-ears have degraded my hearing, so I don't use them any more.

hnthrow102829102• 1 month ago

I just got some ear plugs that swimmers wear, quite nice

chistev2• 1 month ago

I’m a long distance runner and often run 15-20+ miles without music or headphones. It’s nice

https://youtube.com/shorts/aqWDyakwRg8?si=LZddNysBymNXLgZI

wiseowise5• 1 month ago

Jesus H. Christ, what a terrible day to have ears and eyes. Who even consumes this “content”?

Tade0• 1 month ago

People now wear their AirPods all day at the office.

Hey, that's me! Not with AirPods specifically, but I do have noise cancelling headphones. We can talk over lunch or during a break.

They keep them in while ordering and paying for things in stores and supermarkets.

Now that is just rude.

lonelyasacloud• 1 month ago

Like huge SUV and pickup trucks in urban environments, guns and the like; their usage - and the perceived need for them - is a strong code smell of inhumane environments.

havaianaslife• 1 month ago

we all have a choice to use or not and the depending of the context we live in there could be more or less benefits overall (metro city vs bucolic small European village). But what this article capture for me is something more philosophic, anthropologically as Aristotle told us we are social animal, and for about at least the past 5k years we benefited a lot as a group by contamination, etc.. now we live in more bubbles, bubbles are more diffused than previously and we must at least acknowledge what we are missing in the process. It's the same difference between old generalist medias, tv shows, books culture, and the more different possibilities and bubbles we live (more importantly grow, sometimes without touching the "local" "proverbial" grass). It's interesting to observe a social phenomenon that is mostly recent:

+ walkman 80s but diffused as today the Bluetooth headset only years later but not comparable

+ mp3 player 2000s not comparable as capabilities and more of a young adopt early technology

+ smartphones 2010s mass adoption but at least you hear mostly people around you.

+ air pods 10y ago on September -> in 10 years are adopted more than any of the previous tech. Adoption rate is hug (i consider also other brands)

and to be honest there is another topic correlated -> most young people have lived the covid pandemic and interiorizited some behavior

also grown up in some white collar sector live with headset after the pandemic, cause of smartwarking but also the more diffused use of team/zoom/meet in the workplace

now there is also ai (and it's a matter of time we will want a constant access to it that can also be headset related) and smart glasses are near than ever.

there could be consequences in less than 10y.

It's a social science matter nobody taking seriously.

ForHackernews• 1 month ago

"And in her ears the little Seashells, the thimble radios tamped tight, and an electronic ocean of sound, of music and talk and music and talk coming in, coming in on the shore of her unsleeping mind. The room was indeed empty. Every night the waves came in and bore her off on their great tides of sound, floating her, wide-eyed, toward morning. There had been no night in the last two years that Mildred had not swum that sea, had not gladly gone down in it for the third time."

NoGravitas• 1 month ago

Everything old is new again; observe this song from 1983: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zR_b3WYHZ7o

lelandfe2• 1 month ago

And the mid point, Bowling Alone https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bowling_Alone

dredmorbius5• 1 month ago

"Walkman On" by SSQ.

jimlawruk• 1 month ago

The number of spoken words uttered by the average person fell by 28% between 2005 and 2019

This effect started well before Airods and even smart phones became ubiquitous. The airpods were released in Dec of 2016. Before Blackberries and Iphones, people on the subway all had daily newspapers in their face. In DC we had a free abridged version called the Express.

mitchitized• 1 month ago

The author has clearly never tried to leg press 300+ pounds in the gym to Madonna's "Like a Virgin". Sometimes the biggest sell of earbuds is noise REDUCTION, not what sounds they can make.

I do agree that there are "social interactions" that are greatly devalued by people wishing not to be interacted with. But for me the earbuds are usually in to block annoyances, not avoid human contact.

finnthehuman• 1 month ago

Agreed. I wear headphones because open offices suck and I like music. I’m not trying to avoid anyone.

javier1234543212• 1 month ago

This is talking about the second order effects of using the earbuds to avoid annoyances. It might not be the conscious reason you do things, but it is an effect that it has. The question worth exploring is what is the second order effect when people grow up where being isolated acoustically, or doing the social signal of having earbuds in even without something playing, is the norm for all interactions?

alun• 1 month ago

Anecdotally, when it comes to talking to strangers I've often felt it's easier to converse with older people than those my own age. For example, the conversations feel more genuine and less "forced" on both sides, and overall I feel more comfortable being myself.

The reason might be because they grew up in a world where social media was non-existent, so interacting with strangers was more common. As a result, they tend to be more socially intelligent than the younger generations.

Will be thinking about this article the next time I reach for my AirPods as I'm about to leave the house.

cassepipe3• 1 month ago

To me it's easier to talk to older people because it is a given that being old past a given threshold generally lowers your social status in modern societies and they tend to be more lonely on average. We have all met someone who is old and is desperate to establish contact about anything. This means that their whole demeanor is inviting conversation, establishing eye contact and smiling and all that

I happily "take the bait" cause I am a quite patient person but sadly, people who are lonely have such an urge to talking that they are totally incapable of listening. I consider myself a good listener, competent at signaling than what they are talking about is actually going through but a lot of the time they might as well be talking to a tree.

ExoticPearTree2• 1 month ago

It is an amazing piece of technology that allows you to ignore people at will by pretending you're not hearing what they're saying if they insist.

AirPods for sure do not make you more lonely. It's about your personality. Either you are an introvert or not.

“No one talks on the bus. No one greets the barista. Even in class, students are choosing to listen to music instead of their professors,”

Why? Bother them for no good reason? I am incredibly annoyed when people come to me to make small talk. Same with classes... if the topic is interesting or the professor is good at its job people will listen. If the professor has a very non-interesting class or is a boring person, why bother listing to it? You read the notes, get a the lowest passing grade possible and go on with your life. Before tablets people would read their newspapers and be very annoyed if you bothered them. Now they have AirPods instead of tablets or newspapers. Same thing: no everybody wants to talk to everybody.

euio757• 1 month ago

> “No one talks on the bus. No one greets the barista ...
Why? Bother them for no good reason?

Those 2 examples for the article are not the same situation at all... in many cultures:

"No one talks on the bus" --> very good, people are here to commute and want quiet.

"No one greets the barista" --> Wow, you're a POS human being. It's basic human dignity to greet the people you interact with.

Try the latter in a country like France for instance, skipping the "Bonjour", which is the expected cultural greeting (You're not expected to do small talk, just "Bonjour"), keep your airpods on and just place your order ... and see how the person on the other side reacts :)

angrydev• 1 month ago

Baristas in NYC don't care about being greeted specifically. They want to take your order so they can move the line along. You will get a very strange look if you try to small talk in a busy cafe.

ExoticPearTree2• 1 month ago

It's basic human dignity to greet the people you interact with.

No. While it might be nice, it is not mandatory. And no, no one is a POS just because it doesn’t say hi first. You have to be very entitled to think it is required or that you deserve it.

TaupeRanger• 1 month ago

TLDR: "I think AirPods increase social isolation, I don't have much good evidence for it, and although I started the article by observing how many MORE Americans use AirPods, I completely contradicted myself at the end by pointing out how Germans, who apparently use AirPods less, are still less friendly/warm to strangers than Americans."

Suspiciously close to an AI slop article.

ajsnigrutin• 1 month ago

This habit of using headphones to dodge uncomfortable interactions may be especially common among younger adults, for whom social unease and feelings of isolation are well-documented problems that have become more common in recent decades.

Earphones (not specifically apple ones) are great for this. My city has become a touristy hotspot in the recent years, and you can't walk 50 meters through the city center without some homeless guy, or a romanian woman with a baby asking you for money, some "finnish" guys trying to sell your their music cd (that you have nowhere to insert anymore), some scammer offering you a flower or someone trying to sell you a boat tour of a city you've lived in your whole life.

Earphones in and you don't even have to reply, just ignore everyone.

conductr4• 1 month ago

I was in college when the first iPod came out. As an early adopter that was super into my music that first year or so, wearing white headphones around campus actually came with more social interaction. It felt like everyone was staring at me and usually people constantly interrupted my jam sessions to ask me about them. The novelty quickly wore off for me, I realized I preferred a more private speakered environment for my jams. I also did and still suffer from massive pain caused from most in ear headphones, even the recent AirPods with adjustable silicone tips I use sparingly and never more than a hour or so.

What was weird was about 2 years later it completely flipped. I had written off my iPod in public while the entire world adopted them. I went from being the only one on a bus with white corded buds, usually recipient of people’s gazes, I was being antisocial and everyone’s eyes were telling about it. To suddenly, I was the only one engaged. Everyone else was being antisocial. This was well before the iPhone but people still just stared at their play list and stopped interacting. A quiet bus full of college students was a strange thing to witness but it took over as the social norm.

Dracophoenix• 1 month ago

I also did and still suffer from massive pain caused from most in ear headphones, even the recent AirPods with adjustable silicone tips I use sparingly and never more than a hour or so.

Have you tried replacing them with foam tips?

conductr4• 1 month ago

Yes, I feel like I’ve tried everything and usually just use over the ear when I need them. More than anything, I just optimize for not needing them. I have a dedicated office so I can use speakers. I use the AirPods on flights under 3 hours which is my majority. I just have sore ears after and live with it. But I don’t wear headphones anywhere around town like what the article is talking about it. I see it and decided not to participate way back because of the antisocial part that was obvious so long ago.

kjkjadksj2• 1 month ago

I don’t have airpods but I still use earpods for video conferencing. Honestly they fit and sound better (louder) when I have right and left switched.

conductr4• 1 month ago

Is this a primary preference or something you do because of your environment (busy coworking space/ cubicles/etc)? I use over the ear headphones when I need to but am thankful that I’ve almost always had a dedicated office and can use speakers and a microphone without disrupting anyone else. I also like the speakers because I can listen to voice/music while muting OS sounds or control volume separately pretty easily. The mic is just part of my camera, but it’s also a peripheral as my work laptop builtin is pretty crappy and I usually am docked with laptop closed.

I do think over the ear is so much better at anything else at noise canceling and blocking out the outside noises in general. On a flight it’s leaps and bounds better at blocking the dull humming of the plain. I have to really crank up the volume on AirPods to be able to hear a movie or podcast. It ends up feeling like I’ve actually done more harm than good to my ear health. Although the compact carry is a huge benefit

adsteel_• 1 month ago

That's my memory as well. Early '00s, I was also in college and seemingly one year campus went from a broadly friendly, social place to one with a lot of people, headphones in, focused on their own little world.

There were Walkmans and disc Walkmans before that, of course, but MP3 players were a step change in social isolation, from my perspective. Bluetooth earbuds + a wave of streaming audio content have been another.

conductr4• 1 month ago

The time after I left campus life in mid00s was relatively normal until the AirPods came out then everyone everywhere started again with the headphones in most of the time, it’s been that way since.

What I find interesting is how there seems to be some people that also are just always on the phone talking in public. It’s either a headphone call or often complimented with the handheld FaceTime. The forced eavesdropping I am subjected to makes it sound like nothing important is being discussed. Reminds me of my land line calls as a pre/teen where we just spent hours on the phone with a friend and basically had nothing to say, maybe we watched TV together and commented about the show.

The phenomenon seems much more prevalent in certain demographic groups from my totally nonscientific observations and I find that interesting as well. From what I can tell, in jest, black women are not capable of grocery shopping without being on the phone with another person (and not talking about shopping list items).

cassepipe3• 1 month ago

To be fair when you live in a big city and you have to take the subway all the time, it just feels physically nice to remove the background noise whether it's the noise of the train itself or the musicians or the people asking loudly for money. I don't even have airpods, I have good old earplugs because I often too lazy to choose the soundtrack of my own life.

It's not that don't want to talk to unknown people, it's that it's more important for me to avoid the unpleasantness of it all. It's all relative of course, I'd take a fast, crowded train any day rather than having to do the good old accelerate-and-stop of a traffic jam/city intersections.

I live in a country with somewhat solid social net so I'd actually be in favor or preventing people to ask for money (loudly and in a pathos-optimized voice) in the train. It's generally people who are 1. having other income 2. drug addicts 3. mental issues or a combination of all that. I don't blame them but I wish there was a cruelty-free way of preventing them to do that because I don't think the amount of money they make is worth the amount of inconvenience they cause. Of course they are other ways of making the service better (more trains, closer to each other) but I believe the subway company is already hard at work on that.

My point I guess is that it doesn't take much for something to become an unpleasant experience (as anyone who's ever had a significant dose of LSD will tell you) and that's it's easy to blame people (individualistic, selfish blablabla) but system-thinking is how you solve that kind of issue (and it's not easy)

goodmythical16• 1 month ago

That's kind of the point the article is making though, isn't it?

You're making a choice to insulate yourself from your surroundings. That choice has effects on both you and your environment. You see it as a simple salve, but the poor souls you're choosing to ignore see it as a just another bourgeoisie wall.

I used to live in a prison. Headphones were a huge fighting issue. People who couldn't afford them would borrow, rent, or steal them. I never saw the point. Humans are a part of nature. I can sleep, eat, shower, and meditate just as well in the middle of a deadly riot (I was once asked by an officer to leave the dining area as they'd maced several people and everyone else had fled while I sat there calmly eating my institutional cheesy cardboard because I was more hungry than bothered by the mace) as I can in a forest or a dead silent bed room.

Embracing or shunning the society you live in is a choice. Choosing either has consequences. My choice means that I am often driven to action to contribute to systemic solutions to the pain I see in life. It isn't easy, but I don't think I could live with sticking my fingers in my ears and pretending it isn't happening.

wafflemaker2• 1 month ago

In a way you're right, but what you can do comes from a significantly high spiritual development level. For an average Joe it's quite abstract and maybe even unattainable in this life.

OTOH, there are people who get sensory overstimulated more easily. Add to that a foreign place, lot of people and chaos around, and even a neurotypical individual can feel anxious.

Putting on headphones and playing Chopin is much more effective than breathing and telling yourself "everythings gonna be ok" in a loop. At least in my experience.

Barbing4• 1 month ago

Wow, was it a computer fraud abuse act thing, I mean claimed to be? Obviously nothing violent!

Thanks for sharing.

browningstreet• 1 month ago

A buffer isn’t necessarily isolation or insulation.

cassepipe3• 1 month ago

That's kind of the point the article is making though, isn't it?

I think the article pays lip service to this in a paragraph ("social crutch") but otherwise falls into the trap of "societal" pieces (Soft "Why can't we talk to each other anymore ? What is wrong with our cvilisation?")

In my opinion make it a safe enjoyable non-crowded ride and you'll get plenty of interactions.

just another bourgeoisie wall.

You are not wrong in a way. The base of a lot of the kind of interaction the author of the piece is thinking about is a relatively equal social standing, otherwise there's too much at stake, on both sides. For example, I, a lower middle class man, would have little patience for someone telling me about how much fun they are having taking helicopter rides in the summer and I don't think they'd enjoy my rant about how landlords are evil. Of course I think there's a moral duty to lower yourself from your social standing to care for people who have it rougher than you but it's generally not exactly pleasant like a conversation with someone like-minded could be

dmitrygr• 1 month ago

Counter: my attention must be earned, I do not owe it to randoms.

wvenable6• 1 month ago

I can sleep, eat, shower, and meditate just as well in the middle of a deadly riot ... as I can in a forest or a dead silent bed room.

You should realize that there are people who can't do that.

tipperjones• 1 month ago

People are really good at finding virtue within themselves

talon86352• 1 month ago

You’re chastising the person above you for blocking out the world with headphones while bragging that you have honed skills over time to, due to desire and necessity, block out the world in your own head.

In any case, it doesn’t strike me as unreasonable to want to be unbothered, especially in particularly bothersome circumstances. You don’t owe anyone your attention, and the assumption that you do can and is weaponized by everyone from Zuckerberg to the fentanyl addict aggressively demanding your money.

bitexploder• 1 month ago

I worked in Manhattan often in the 00s and early 10s. Have people forgotten what big city life was like before? Commuters did not randomly strike up conversations. It was an unspoken code you left each other alone. Especially in rush hour commutes. Everyone is waking up or tired after a day of work. It is more about having some personal space in a crowded environment for many. Not everyone processes or experiences that the same way either.

antisthenes• 1 month ago

I can sleep, eat, shower, and meditate just as well in the middle of a deadly riot

Good for you. I can't. Some people need quiet conditions to focus or sleep and if they don't it feels like active torture.

SubmarineClub2• 1 month ago

poor souls you're choosing to ignore

And why exactly should I give a fuck about people who are trying to bother and inconvenience me?

nradov3• 1 month ago

It's not just a social or class issue. A lot of women wear headphones to discourage creepy men from hitting on them or sexually harassing them. The HN crowd skews toward young men and I think many of you don't understand that some women get this constantly on public transit.

Mezzie• 1 month ago

Headphones also give an 'excuse'. Some men become really pissy and unstable if they think you're ignoring them, but if you have visible headphones, then you have the excuse of not hearing them.

bastawhiz• 1 month ago

I don't know why you're getting downvoted, this is a real issue. I'm not a woman, but I'm a gay man and the same thing happens walking through Boystown or at the gym. Headphones have a near-100% success rate at deflecting unwanted advances.

calf3• 1 month ago

Having to buy fancy headphones to solve a social problem is what makes it a class issue. That's the subtle error in the typical response.

varispeed• 1 month ago

it just feels physically nice to remove the background noise whether it's the noise

I thought about it and I found that after so many years my mind can just fade the noise out and I doesn't bother me at all. It also helped me to hear selectively. On the other hand, when I wear noise cancelling headphones it feels weird, like detached from the reality I am present.

Only place I prefer to wear them is open plan office. Too many conversations and many grab attention needlessly.

scoofy• 1 month ago

I agree with this comment.

Noise canceling headphones is the only reason I’m able to use the bus in SF. The author writes from Germany, which has reasonable social etiquette in place in most cities. That social contract just doesn’t exist in large parts of America. In Chicago, they have a real problem with people smoking on public transportation. They don’t make noise canceling headphones for your lungs yet.

The people wearing headphones all day aren’t the ones “losing touch with their neighbors”… no, it’s just that their neighbors are assholes, and they just want to get through the day.

SequoiaHope• 1 month ago

They don’t make noise canceling headphones for your lungs yet.

Well, they literally do, they’re just absurd:

https://www.wired.com/review/review-dyson-zone/

retired5• 1 month ago

Funny, Germany is the only European country where I spotted multiple people using public transport smoking while it was banned.

pwthornton2• 1 month ago

I wear my AirPods Pro on the train largely for hearing protection. The DC Metro is loud, with or without people making noise in the train. Different train systems have different levels of loud, but when the Metro is flying through a tunnel it is quite loud.

I also often have them in while walking around the city for this purpose as well. I usually have the noise canceling off, but if an ambulance or something is coming my way, I quickly click the AirPod to put them into noise canceling mode.

j_w• 1 month ago

The metro is a much less stressful experience for me with noise cancellation on. Without them the noise in tunnels just makes me anxious. The outside tracks are all fine without them though.

And for walking around - it's the traffic noise that bothers me, not people. Traffic noise can just be so loud along some roads (and at certain times of day) that it makes me not want to walk at all.

jerf• 1 month ago

Who are these people who keep complaining about this supposed isolation and such? It's a complaint that periodically makes it on to Hacker News, but the more I think about it the more I feel like we're listening to a complaint made by a vanishing fraction of the population and giving them a more credence then they deserve because a few of them write with great pathos and drama.

But I'm old enough to have ridden the bus not just before AirPods but before really practical and widespread headphones in general. (Headphones have been available for a long time, but people did not routinely carry them around because they did not generally fit conveniently in a normal-sized pocket.) I've spent probably hundreds of hours on busses, much of that on a college campus where we were probably about as similar a social situation as we can be.

And busses were never rolling conversation hubs. They weren't tomb-silent but the conversations were almost always between parties who clearly knew each other. They weren't some sort of daily forum for the debate of politics, nor a reliable source of small talk.

The only one that I will agree is something I used to do was small talk with the checkout clerk, because the transaction takes long enough to be socially awkward to be standing in silence, but again, inconsequential small talk.

Every time I read one of these articles moaning about how we're all behind headphones and how impersonal the shopping experience has become, I become more convinced we're not listening to Important Social Commentary by Thoughtful Individuals... I think we're reading articles from that tiny minority of super-socially-aggressive people who used to incessently bother those around them with their overly intrusive attempts to converse with us in that distant past pissing and moaning about the fact that we now have the social ability to block them in a way that doesn't exceed our politeness threshold. The people that we've all met that we wish would just shut up, where we're sending them social signals and body language to please stop, and they just continue on.

Now this is what they write in response to that.

Now, I'll cop to being reasonably on the end of the "let me get in and out and accomplish my goal without your contribution", but I've spent plenty of time in contexts where I got to see other people in those contexts, especially as a child, and I just don't recognize the wonderland of social interaction these people seem to be missing out on. There was never a time where these random encounters (ignoring cases where you run into people you already know) were ever anything more than the briefest, most transient touch of humanity, and if someone is in a situation where they are starved for that, perhaps their problems are deeper and lie elsewhere and the solutions are something other than trying to convince everyone else to change for them.

genghisjahn• 1 month ago

Same article was written about the proliferation of the Sony Walkman back in the 80s. Same article was written about newspapers on trains. File under “new thing is bad.”

nativeit2• 1 month ago

In America, I am _much_ less likely to encounter a friendly exchange with a a stranger than I am to be accosted for spare change by people for whom our obscenely wealthy systems have failed and/or decided are not worthy of assistance, so even small cities around rural areas have huge populations of unhoused people with a variety of deep-seated and untreated conditions.

Also, although I live in a medium-sized metro area with >8M people, it’s in the South, and I have zero access to public transportation. I prefer to use AirPods for music/podcasts/radio in my car, where I’m alone either way, so that I can more easily answer hands-free calls (which is necessary for my job).

Our society’s problem isn’t with AirPods, they’re just a symptom of the broader social decay that 80-years of inequality and deregulation has brought us.

sailfast• 1 month ago

Sorry but this “people aren’t the same because headphones” (or podcasts or <insert here>) is just too convenient a narrative especially when your pull quotes are from random college newspapers and small scale studies.

Having some music or a podcast to listen to on your commute is the new “I have a giant newspaper in front of my face”.

If you want to have a random conversation you totally can! But like all things in life - the other person may not want to have that conversation at that time.

wafflemaker2• 1 month ago

First generation of AirPods Pro were the only in-canal earphones that didn't fall out of my ears (rare shape of ear canal and yes, I tried different sizes, they all fall out or don't fit).

Only have over-ears headphones, so I keep borrowing pods from my wife when I'm cleaning/exercising.

Was very disappointed when she lost them and the replacement - pro v3 - had fixed the rare shape and they started falling out like any other earbuds.

bawolff2• 1 month ago

Heavy headphone use makes people feel lonelier, the survey found. It also makes people less likely to have a meaningful conversation with someone new. Many of those interviewed for the survey said they wore headphones in part to avoid having to talk to other people.

Well that sounds like correlation might not equal causation if i ever heard it.

trevwebdev• 1 month ago

When I'm doing a task, whether it's going to the grocery store or heading to work, the last thing I want to do is talk to someone. And in my personal experience, people don't randomly try to speak to me with or without headphones, unless it's someone wanting to pass out a pamphlet or a story employee asking if I need something.

If I can make my social outtings in this regard easier and less stressfree, that far outweidghs any anti-social stigma.

mcculley2• 1 month ago

The modern world is funny. I have a hearing impairment, tinnitus, and use both AirPods and less visible hearing aids to hear people better. I only wear the AirPods around people who know me well enough to know that I am wearing them so that I can better hear them. I don’t want strangers to think I don’t want to hear them or that I am being rude. When I am out among strangers, I wear the less visible hearing aids.

But a funny consequence is that because my modern, less visible, hearing aids are connected to my phone, I am often listening to podcasts or news and nobody can tell. So sometimes a stranger will say something and I have to pause the audio and ask them to repeat themselves.

I am wondering what social norms will be like once everyone has less visible electronics in their ears.

russdill2• 1 month ago

Wouldn't it be cool if this situation could be detected and when you hit pause it would actually repeat them for you?

SenHeng3• 1 month ago

So you want your magical EarPods to be always listening and recording everything from the past, say 5 seconds?

rogerrogerr2• 1 month ago

Ever thought about wrapping your AirPods to be skin-colored? I wonder if that would be more inviting for strangers than the stereotypical white color.

mcculley2• 1 month ago

No, it never occurred to me. This has prompted a fun discussion with my wife. I suggested I could grow some stem cells into a skin that would match the color of my ears. She suggests that I should not have these ideas.

kriro• 1 month ago

I wear over-ear headphones almost all the time when I'm out on my own using public transportation, grocery shopping etc.

I listen to audio books (fiction) and it's great. I'm an introvert and this actually helps me keep high energy levels all day long. Another plus is I'm usually immersed in the story and not using my phone (well apart from it being a playback device) when sitting down or waiting somewhere.

And it's precisely this extra energy I can use to have more meaningful interactions with other human beings. I don't wear headphones when I go climbing for example and interact with random strangers quite a bit when I do.

I also don't appreciate the stereotypes that are flung about in the article. I'm also German, plenty of interactions as described in his Jalapeno-Story all day every day.

mrcwinn• 1 month ago

Yes there were all these people talking on the bus before wireless headphones.

yokoprime• 1 month ago

i've been wearing headphones in public since the 90s (walkman > discman), i have no idea how the author thinks headphones is a new phenomenon. I'm not particularly interested in unsolicited advice or conversation, so that's a plus for me.

javier1234543212• 1 month ago

New is relative. 90s is still new for a lot of things. At any rate, the pervasiveness of it is new, and having a generation of people that know being isolated acoustically as the default state is also new.

rhipitr• 1 month ago

One thing I find concerning is the amount of people I see driving these days with AirPods. Don’t think they can hear emergency sirens or honks very well that way. I think it it’s even illegal in some locations. I assume they do this in older cars without a way to connect their phone or just like immersive sound.

antinomicus4• 1 month ago

AirPods have a transparency mode and are also fda approved hearing aids now. For some folks it is actually safer to wear them than to not wear them.

malshe2• 1 month ago

The author is from Germany and still complaining about Americans interacting with each other less in public? I've been to Germany so many times and almost never seen anyone speaking to strangers on trains/buses/trams. Once I was on a train from Cologne to Frankfurt with a colleague and we were talking nonstop. After a while we realized it was just us talking and probably disturbing everyone else!

People go to extreme lengths to avoid talking to strangers on public transport even in developing countries. Earphones are just so effective.

purpleflashing3• 1 month ago

Oh god I love how quiet European trains are. I used to take trains a lot in my childhood and until my 20s in Ukraine. Sometimes trains were buzzing with voices during the day, especially if someone was drinking. Not all rides were like this, of course, but in general I remember a lot of noise. German trains are so soothing in comparison!

malshe2• 1 month ago

I find it funny that on some of the ICE trains they have a quiet cabin. To me that’s basically the entire train!

rikima_2• 1 month ago

in the netherlands trains are usually too noisy to focus on anything unless it’s a silent car or 7am.

purpleflashing3• 1 month ago

I am autistic. I can’t even count the number of times I got into dangerous situations because of my crappy social skills when strangers chatted me up. I don’t know, maybe strangers are well-meaning and kind to neurotypical people, or maybe people with good social skills can understand the intentions of strangers fast and cut off suspicious interactions before they are harassed or conned while I realize what’s happening only when it’s already happening, or maybe shitty people can sense my chronic social confusion and target me specifically… but I personally quite enjoy modern headphones etiquette where I live and the norm being not having random interactions. It feels way safer than in pre-headphones era (I grew up in a relatively low tech environment in a small town).

Plus, processing spoken language is physically exhausting even when I am having an enjoyable conversation with someone I love.

Other people already commented on the overstimulation aspect.

Not suggesting that the world should be remade to accommodate my needs, of course, just wanted to share my experience, I guess.

krosaen2• 1 month ago

Wearing on public transport: meh, the chances I chat with a total stranger is quite small.

Wearing on walks around my neighborhood: yes, totally see how this nudges away from spontaneous chats with neighbors / acquaintances as we pass each other and wave, but don't stop perhaps due to the friction of removing airpods and sense we may be interrupting each other.

Sometimes if I see a neighbor I know up ahead, I will preemptively remove my airpods to open the possibility of a chat. Most of the time just a hello, but sometimes a nice catch up. With the airpods, very unlikely to chat.

chris_money202• 1 month ago

Really I see it as the exact opposite. A walk around the neighborhood is highly unlikely to strike up random conversation with a stranger. Might run into a friend or someone friendly but they are likely going to approach with or without airpods

krosaen2• 1 month ago

Interesting that your experience is so different. I didn't mean strangers in my neighborhood though, just acquaintances / neighbors who I talk to sometimes - and airpods nudge the decision towards smile / wave keep walking over stop and chat.

rishbz• 1 month ago

Noise cancelling is a treasure.

What I like about them is the ease of use.

gib4442• 1 month ago

Totally relatable. It's not just earphones. Put your phone and headphones away and then observe people. Every one except the 70 plus will be hooked on their phones. That 20 second wait between getting up to get off the train and waiting for the doors to open? Pull out your phone

Every desire for entertainment, education, distraction is filled by the phone. You're obselete.

You can spend hours in an extremely crowded city constantly bumping into people and feel the most alone you've ever felt in your life

Hyperindividualism has won

habosa• 1 month ago

The most jarring thing to me is seeing how kids (high school and college age) use Airpods now. I will see a group of friends hanging out in public and none of them take their Airpods out! They are talking and socializing, but they feel no need to remove the Airpods from their ears when nothing is playing. They're frictionlessly moving between real life conversation and content on their phones. This includes situations where you really think you'd want to take the Airpods out, like playing pickup basketball.

I don't know how to feel about this. I guess I'm happy that they're out of their house at all, but it does feel very sci-fi. In sci-fi books a common trope is for characters in the future to have neural implants that seamlessly and permanently connect them to some mega-internet. 24/7 Airpods is like the caveman version of that.

kleiba23• 1 month ago

I stopped chit-chatting at the water cooler because I have a specific sense of humor that not everybody likes. And by "not likes", I mean the feminist women in my department get offended. Very easily. And because they're women, they hold special power wrt HR. So I just quietly spend my day now.

minitrollster• 1 month ago

Um I think this might be on you and not them.

kleiba23• 1 month ago

Or just on the combination.

krapp• 1 month ago

So you literally cannot hold a conversation at work without making offensive and misogynist jokes in front of female coworkers? Is this something you need to see a doctor about?

kleiba23• 1 month ago

Perhaps. Just like you might have to see one about reading into other people's statements and blowing them out of proportion.

wiseowise5• 1 month ago

I think you should joke more, ideally in the presence of HR. They will sort it out.

ianbutler• 1 month ago

As someone who lived in New York for over a decade and grew up in the general area, there is not a single person who would think its normal if you're trying to strike up a conversation on the subway or even really when walking down the street.

The etiquette is to keep to yourself, airpods aren't creating that dynamic. The normal assumption if you don't know the person in most contexts them interacting with you in NYC is they're up to something and that's just normal US city dynamics with > 10 million people on a busy day.

The dynamic changes when you're hanging out in front of your apartment for say a cigarette or something or at a bar or sitting in the park but even then its not wrong to signal you're not open to interaction in those situations its simply more normal to chat with neighbors or other people hanging out.

globular-toast• 1 month ago

Noise is a big problem but this is a terrible solution. People clearly hate noise. Rich neighbourhoods are always quiet. It's basically the point. We need to go hard on noise. I think it's one of the biggest sources of unhappiness today. We can start with motor vehicles which are easily the biggest single source of noise. People shouldn't have to disable their ears to deal with this constant assault.

mspgrunt• 1 month ago

By jove people and their airpods are isolating us! Why cant we just talk to eachother like in the good old days https://i.imgur.com/38q0wOe.png

koliber• 1 month ago

It’s a funny comparing commutes back then to commutes now. But it does not take a lot of imagination to see that back then people did not isolate themselves with newspapers while buying food at the grocery store, standing on the crosswalk or in a myriad of their situations where we have opportunity for micro interactions with other people. In other words, looking only at commutes is nit picking.

oceanplexian• 1 month ago

Yeah, great article. But it should get to the point.

The reason you need to physically remove yourself is because of the insane lunatics that blast trash music and do a dance while aggressively panhandling or screaming at you for trying to commute quitely on the train to work. A hallmark of daily life when I worked in SF and in NYC.

A great way to fix the fake problem would be to aggressively enforce the existing laws, starting with tickets, and if that doesn't work, incarceration. Apparently it's not politically correct to do that though so I guess we are all second class citizens who need to live in a low trust society where people are increasingly isolated.

finales• 1 month ago

People can’t understand you can’t have both protecting the poor and not enforcing laws against the poor at the same time

vicnov• 1 month ago

You can be poor and obey the law. You can protect the poor and enforce the law.

It is the weird identity politics is what gets in the way.

snovv_crash3• 1 month ago

The poor are impacted by lawlessness far more than the rich. No private security or fancy neighbourhoods. Cutting down on actually harmful bad behaviour (and by this I mean dealers and muggers, not broken taillights) is the best thing you can do for poor people.

gacgacgac2• 1 month ago

This is nonsense. You absolutely can have both -- typically by building systems to eliminate poverty and reduce income inequality.

eur0pa• 1 month ago

Oh lord not the laws and especially not the tickets

pclmulqdq3• 1 month ago

This is why they cane people in Singapore for nuisance crime. Incarceration is expensive and fines don’t have the right effect.

cglan• 1 month ago

Coming back to the states after traveling abroad is always astonishing. For all our wealth, it genuinely feels worse than somewhere like Brazil in many of our big cities

pclmulqdq3• 1 month ago

The Brazilian government keeps the crime contained to specific areas, where it gets extremely bad. In the US, a generalized lack of enforcement means small amounts of nuisance crime spread around.

nonethewiser4• 1 month ago

It has nothing to do with wealth. It’s just policy.

retired5• 1 month ago

There is a difference between being a tourist somewhere and actually living there.

milesskorpen• 1 month ago

While that does happen occasionally in SF, it's <5% of my commutes.

vkou3• 1 month ago

It's been 0% of my commutes in Seattle. Yet the NC headphones are also everywhere, including on my head.

andrepd2• 1 month ago

Eh I don't think so. Commutes are as clean and peaceful as they can be in the Netherlands or Switzerland and people are no less buried in their phones with noise-cancelling earbuds on.

KolmogorovComp4• 1 month ago

Why is this downvoted? This is correct.

plutokras• 1 month ago

Can confirm. Traveling via public transport in Switzerland is remarkably uneventful. It's a stark contrast to my Eastern European home country, where it is a gamble due to a certain demographic's anti-social behavior.

retired5• 1 month ago

The Netherlands has plenty of crazies using public transport. Every other window on the train has the emergency number on it for a reason. I refuse to travel in second class, hate being close to people that blast music, use drugs, puke or eat a broodje pindakaas.

The Netherlands even has segregated busses for asylum seekers because there was too much violence. Dutch people have their own busses and asylum seekers are required to use a separate bus with extra security. Upside is that asylum seekers don’t have to pay for a ticket.

vkou3• 1 month ago

Pretty sure my commute of 12 years had exactly zero aggressive panhandling (or unaggressive panhandling), yet just about every single person on it was wearing some flavour of them.

I've also just been in Japan, where nobody's commute has panhandling of any kind, and guess what, everyone there is tuning the world out with their headphones, too. Despite it being kind of verbotten to make noise on the subway, and the few conversations that were happening on it were very quiet.

I wasn't wearing mine during that trip. Because a relatively quiet space was actually pleasant for me to be in. American cities are so fucking noisy, and as a consequence, even people respectful of their surroundings tend to be loud.

itake• 1 month ago

I’ve been in the Baltic countries for a few weeks. I do not see any of the behaviors you mentioned, but all the behaviors mentioned in the article.

I don’t think this is a bad music problems

jasonfarnon2• 1 month ago

You also see the behavior in the middle of the woods on a hike, or as the article mentions at upscale cafes. The whole point of the article is the near universality of wearing airpods. So a comment dwelling on US urban subways tells you more about the comment-writer's preoccupations then any sociological insight. And a top comment tells you mainly something about the preoccupations/demographics of the site.

tverbeure• 1 month ago

if that doesn't work, incarceration.

Sure, let’s “solve” a minor problem in the grand scheme of things with a much larger evil.

gfody• 1 month ago

incarceration is going too far, all you need is a few enforcers with shock wands like in Demolition Man

nonethewiser4• 1 month ago

Wont someone please think of the unstable homeless person threatening people on the street.

Incarceration is more humane for everyone than letting sick people live on the street.

kranke155• 1 month ago

Incarceration would be nuts.

nonethewiser4• 1 month ago

For what exactly? And unstable homeless person threatening people on the street?

Harassing people and living on the street is already crime. Camping in public, public nuisance, loitering, obstructing sidewalk, etc.

bradleyjg• 1 month ago

I’d say it’s the opposite. We get non enforcement and anti enforcement because lots of people aren’t directly affected.

Different neighborhoods, work from home, private transportation to work, or—admittedly to a lesser degree—AirPod insulation.

If we were really all this together quality of life in our cities would be taken far more seriously.

SubmarineClub2• 1 month ago

No, it’s because city politics in the US are dominated by naive bleeding-heart type leftists who are willing to overlook any and all forms of antisocial behavior if it’s committed by a poor and/minority individual.

georgemcbay• 1 month ago

The reason you need to physically remove yourself is because of the insane lunatics that blast trash music and do a dance while aggressively panhandling or screaming at you for trying to commute quitely on the train to work.

I've lived (and commuted on public transit) for years in many metros including SF, NYC, Boston and DC and can't recall even a single such interaction.

I'm sure it happens, I'm also sure it happens far less often than your competing anecdote suggests.

nonethewiser4• 1 month ago

It’s a mixture of naivety and foreign influence campaigns.

teaearlgraycold• 1 month ago

What's interesting is how the culture of the homeless people seems to differ across SF. Civic Center to 6th & Market is consistently the worst in my experience in terms of volatile people.

Tenderloin these days is relatively peaceful (plenty of people on the streets but they're just getting high with their friends).

Mission is chaotic, extra poop on the sidewalk, sometimes masses of people 50+ deep. But also the people on the street seem to mostly know and take care of each other. Higher density of people selling stolen goods. If I take Muni bus 14 home at 3AM it's a bunch of people shuttling to shelters but being polite (although not always lucid), exchanging cans of soda, etc. However I've heard quite a few stories from 38 with people being threatening or worse.

throwforfeds• 1 month ago

I haven't seen showtime on the subway here in NYC in a long time. And even when it happened more often, they generally would dance for all of one stop before moving to the next train car. So, what, like ~3 minutes of your commute?

Much more annoying to me these days are all the people that have decided it's acceptable to stare at their phone and zombie walk out of the train and up the stairs, completely oblivious to the world around them. They're not even making noise, just walking straight into other humans in a busy station while scrolling tiktok.

SllX• 1 month ago

I’ll add onto this the PA system & noise from the trains themselves. BART isn’t exactly a quiet train system, and MUNI is far too comfortable blasting announcements & propaganda through its PA system telling you not to commit crimes.

Those speakers by the way are an ADA requirement, and the only information that should be coming out of them are the stop announcements & any comms from the driver that may be necessary. Anything else in four different languages is not required, including the track telling you not to stand too close to the doors on the bus.

deet• 1 month ago

While commuting can be chaotic, I don't think what you're calling out is the central point of the article.

Spaces that are less chaotic - coffee shops, gyms, even elevators - are places that people used to be able to strike up random short conversations with each other. Sometimes these would become longer. Sometimes they even turned into friendships.

It still happens of course, but I, like the author, am saddened that casual socialization seems to be on the decline.

I like to say Hi to people in elevators. Some reciprocate. Some find it awkward. But I don't even bother saying Hi to those wearing AirPods since that would be rude, interrupting them. Could an interaction have brightened our mutual days? Could we have become friends? Who knows, AirPods preempted it from the start.

clukic• 1 month ago

This reply is perfect. The anger encapsulated in it captures the exact crux of the post. The point, of course, is that advances in personal technology have coincided with a cultural shift where people feel entitled to personal isolation in public spaces.

When I moved to NYC 30 years ago, one of the things that made me fall in love with the city was the way that living in such close proximity to so many others seemed to create so much more empathy. The same effect, I now see working in reverse, minimizing contact with others with by disappearing into technology has the effect of making people less empathetic. Instead of reaching into their pocket for a subway performance, or a homeless person, people might prefer to see them arrested for the crime of violating their all important personal barriers.

pie_flavor• 1 month ago

I don't feel entitled to personal isolation from people who might want to strike up a conversation. If I'm not in the mood, I'll just say so.

I feel entitled to personal isolation from schizophrenics, who have a good chance of assaulting me if I look at them wrong. (And did you think screaming and playing loud music was disruptive just to quiet, and not to the aforementioned conversation too?)

You are the problem, not the person you're replying to. When you say 'you must exhibit infinite tolerance of antisocial disruption', the easy response is 'or I could always just leave'.

DANmode3• 1 month ago

My home is now a place where people are mortified by the homeless, and literally give them things off of themselves, or offer ways to existentially assist, on-sight.

Maybe it’s the crushing disproportionate volume and nature of the poverty that each effective individual is confronted with that’s to blame - I still believe people are inherently good, but they do give up pretty easily if you make it socially acceptable to ignore.

I will no longer choose to live in places it’s socially acceptable to ignore.

angiolillo4• 1 month ago

Different public spaces have wildly different expectations with regard to social interaction.

Most people know better than to strike up a conversation with a stranger who is watching a theater performance, reading in a library, or walking briskly to work. Whereas chatting with people at a club, sporting event, carnival, conference, convention, etc is socially acceptable.

But many places are ambiguous like public transit, gyms, shops, airplanes, etc. Assessing whether someone in those contexts would welcome interaction with strangers requires social awareness.

Unfortunately, some people overlook or deliberately ignore these cues, so folks who aren't interested in social interaction have taken to wearing headphones in those contexts to make it as obvious as possible. If you're the kind of person who is surprised by how many people are now wearing headphones, it may be because you were missing their more subtle cues before.

KolmogorovComp4• 1 month ago

I’m reasonably skilled talking to strangers (can last about 3-4 hours in planes/trains/buses if the other party is up to it, after that I usually dry out of conversation), and do that frequently.

However after several years of heavy traveling and hundreds of people talked to, you realize how similar everyone is. It is always the same issues, wife/husband, the kids, the parents…

And it all starts to become a bit superficial. Sure, you can talk, but to what avail? You realize how shallow the situation is because the common ingredient in all stories is that everyone only ever care about their closed ones, which you and them will never be.

And you reassess the book option whose insight or knowledge may very well impact your life much more than yet another seconds to hours long chitchat.

Signed: a disillusioned extrovert.

antinomicus4• 1 month ago

That’s sad man - I also talk a lot to strangers and yeah most of the time you get average people, but then you meet that one in a million person and learn something truly fascinating or expand your sphere of knowledge or emotion or art or whatever. I’m always on the lookout for the next brilliant engineer, sensitive artist, or just a well read janitor.

rTX5CMRXIfFG• 1 month ago

Wouldn’t you consult a book or a video and practice a skill if you really wanted to expand your knowledge? And a “well-read janitor”, while certainly possible, is a trope more often seen in works of fiction. And what does “expanding your emotion or art” even mean?

wiether4• 1 month ago

  > And it all starts to become a bit superficial.

I'll never confide in a stranger, so if they want to talk, I'll try to bore them out with superficial stuff.

Signed: an introvert.

KolmogorovComp4• 1 month ago

So you’re wasting both your time and theirs, for no reasons. Instead, try politely signaling you’re not interested.

That being said, fortunately it’s easy to see people who like to talk.

jedberg• 1 month ago

Noise pollution has always been a problem, especially in public transit. We finally have a decent solution. I don't think it's much more complicated than that.

antinomicus4• 1 month ago

I have a family member who works substantially on some of the main design/components of the AirPods who might have a different take. He wears them all the time but, as this article fails to mention, with transparency mode on. Thanks in large part to my family member, we are able to hear the outside world through the AirPods just fine and our brains are able to process the audio coming in as real time and not disorienting.

Thanks to this mode the AirPods have now been certified as hearing aids and many other friends and family members have said the same thing: that the AirPods are better hearing aids than actual prescription hearing aids (which usually cost absurd prices)

I talk to those people with those AirPods in as if they have no AirPods in at all, and thanks to those AirPods they are able to hear me better.

This is all a matter of perspective and comfort ability with adopting new paradigms and technologies. You need not see everything from the perspective of “technology bad”.

cpuguy83• 1 month ago

I'm reminded of the old-timey picture of a bunch of people on a train staring at their newspapers. Nothing new here.

balgaly• 1 month ago

Turn on music, Turn off world

avsn• 1 month ago

While I can see the point author is making, it’s weird how it is pinpointed to “headphone use”. I’ve been listening to music on the go for almost 30 years, starting with cassette players, then CD players, then mp3/ipods. Taking a bus/metro and listening to some new album or old favorite was very formative experience as a teen music lover. I have a sense that the important moment with regards to the issues described in the article was mobile internet becoming widely available and development of easy/good wireless headphones (AirPods). Social media and algorithmic streaming is a big part of this too, not just “headphones”.

billbrown• 1 month ago

100% this. People used to read newspapers and books on mas transit and Walkmans have been with us since the early 80s.

I think it comes down to people not _wanting_ to interact with anyone outside of their circle. I pull out my earbuds _constantly_ when I'm out in order to greet people, interact with retail staff, and hear things around me.

cratermoon• 1 month ago

I wear headphones because of all the people around me not using headphones while they listen to podcasts, talk on the phone, watch yootoob, and so on.

mistyvales• 1 month ago

I stopped listening to music on my walks and bike rides years ago. I sit at home listening to music all day while I work, so to me it's a nice respite to enjoy the world around me.

gacgacgac2• 1 month ago

This article definitely doesn't account for those of us who are neurodiverse. My airpods buy me precious energy I can spend in social circles that I would otherwise not have. Force me out of them on a train or bus, expect me to be asocial for an hour when I get home.

Nothing is more unwelcome than casual conversation with strangers. It's very difficult to know what to say and how to act. I don't have a machine built for interacting with this person, so every conversation is simultaneous developing and operating a machine. No thank you!

And I'm not lonely nor isolated. I've curated the relationships I want. They are high quality, free from social media, and very active. I don't need someone sticking a spanner in my mental machinery on the bus.

Lio2• 1 month ago

Back home in the UK I find I need to always have my airpods with me because of the number of shops, supermarkets and cafes that blast out irritating pop music.

I’m… sensitive to music I don’t like and find the experience almost painful otherwise. Small pocket, noise cancelling headphones have been a real game changer for me.

dredmorbius5• 1 month ago

I'm old enough to remember an earlier, but not the first, generation of portable recording/playback devices, the Sony Walkman (1979). Note that there had already been about two decades of such devices dating to the first transistor radios (and headphones) of the 1950s. Arguably a crystal radio set (easily hand-carried or wearable, and functioning without batteries) might also meet that definition.

I don't know about earlier options, but the Walkman did become truly ubiquitous, and a large fraction of my peers had or wore these fairly constantly, with discussions at the time of isolation, as well as, fairly presciently, potential hearing damage. Another factor is that the soft foam over-the-ear headphones tended to leak a tinny resonance into the immediate area, and "sound leakage" was commented on and tsked about.

There were also concerns about the antisocial nature of the devices ... or the intimacy of sharing headphones (one speaker apiece for singe-head sets, or for couples, dual-headset options).

SSQ's "Walkman On" dates from that period: <https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=48597698>.

I also remember from the late 1990s the first time I encountered someone walking down the street, talking apparently to themselves, using an early corded single-ear headphone with a mic. Mobiles were becoming more common, but were usually held to the ear. This behaviour struck me as much like what one might see from rough sleepers, though this man was far better dressed than most. The experience is of course now ubiquitous.

Those sentiments are well reflected here: "The Forgotten War on the Walkman" <https://newsletter.pessimistsarchive.org/p/the-forgotten-war...> (July, 2025)

HN discussion: <https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=44449970>

tonic_note2• 1 month ago

I think an angle the author misses is the degree to which we've all become intolerant of boredom. Moments of stillness and boredom have all but been erased from our daily lives, the daily commute being a great example. Airpods give us an easy way to not have to grapple with the prospect of not being entertained during every waking second of our conscious experience.

But boredom is _really_ important – that's the DMN activity you want. Boredom gives your mind the chance to reveal things to you that you need to know, and may be actively avoiding.

kashnote• 1 month ago

I wish I could walk around NYC without airpods in. Someone mentioned the lunatics and others blasting music but the main issue honking.

The honking in NYC is unbearable. Add to that the noise that the subways make and the constant construction and you're risking actual hearing damage if you don't wear some noise cancelling headphones.

destory-everyth• 1 month ago

‘please mind the platform gap please do not eat or drink on the railway premises wear a mask don't lean against the door hold onto the handrails on escalator give way to alighting passengers don't leave your belongings unattended take out your travel card and tap for quicker entry and exit don't board if lights are flashing Molestation and taking upskirt photos is a serious offense do not meddle with the rail equipment its not a matter of if but when, our response matters, SG SECURE! in the event of an emergency take cover call 999, and wait for the authorities take the lift if you have bulky items This train has stop here because the train ahead is still at the station, "Your attention please. Please do not leave your belongings unattended. If you see any suspicious looking person or article, please inform our staff or call nine, nine, nine." etc, etc.

Now repeat the whole thing in English, MandarinMelayu then Tamil and blast that record on repeat.

sila berhati-hati di ruang platform, ombothu, ombothu, ombothu

welcome to Singapore

gib4442• 1 month ago

Very similar experience in England with ridiculously excessive announcements on trains. It's the verbal equivalent of being constantly slapped in the face.

nunez• 1 month ago

The author hit the nail on the head with this piece.

I purchased bone conduction headphones this year to serve as sleep headphones that work with my custom molded earplugs for sleeping. The headphones work as intended for this purpose, but I was not ready for how greatly they would change the way I move throughout the world.

These let me clearly hear music AND my surroundings. No longer do I need to decide whether I want to socialize with others or enjoy music that I love. The headphones let me do both! (While AirPods have outstanding noise transparency capabilities, speech can get muddied depending on the environment.)

Over time, I became SLIGHTLY more willing to engage in small talk with strangers. This combined with taking public transit to my co-working space (not the norm here in Houston; our transit system is criminally underrated) has improved my life much much more than I ever could have expected. (In fact, taking the bus and train in opened my eyes to how isolating driving really is. Between driving and WFH, you can go months without interacting with another human if desired. That can't be healthy. AI will make this worse.)

cetarylic2• 1 month ago

This struck a chord with me because when our 9mth old was born, I leant heavily on airpods during night feeds and still do wear them when it's just me and her hanging out; we interact constantly and chat away but I always have them in.

I also wear them listening to podcasts doing chores in the evening while my wife is on the couch; whenever she says something I have to ask her to repeat herself and its just not nice.

I also agree with the lack of idle thought; my brain is constantly tied into some content stream.

I need to be more deliberate - maybe I'll only use them for work (I work from home so use the for meetings and to hear notifications when away from my desk) and when running.

brachkow• 1 month ago

The biggest effect of AirPods was that people stopped asking you to pull out the earphones when they talk to you.

At early college age I was dealing with stress that I for some reason had in a crowded city, and my main help was listening to rhythmic music all the time.

What annoyed me a lot that people from a coffee shop workers to beggars were making me more stressed by insisting that I must get my headphones out before the conversation began.

With release of wireless Apple EarPods this behavior completely disappeared in a following year.

bookofjoe2• 1 month ago

Reading the comments and debate about whether or not AirPods use is rude or not when others are around, it seems like the uproar over Meta glasses but in a minor key.

npilk• 1 month ago

This will be even more interesting when AR glasses finally go mainstream in a few years, further increasing this effect.

nosslin• 30 days ago

I hate articles that tries to blame one company like Apple for airpods. It is a global phenomenon enabled by tech i.e. earbuds, podcasts, streaming, internet calling etc.

The AirPods Effect

Related Stories