Apple's MacBook revival plan: Bring back old features

https://www.inputmag.com/design/apple-macbook-revival-plan-is-stupid-smart-bring-back-old-features

by metahost • 6 years ago

358 550 6 years ago

uniqueid3• 6 years ago

Apple's previous MacBook plan was stupid stupid. I just can't bring myself to view 'several different ports' as a stroke of genius.

uniqueid3• 6 years ago

To save someone the time: 'it can't be stupid if it sold <x million> units'

riffraff2• 6 years ago

It can still stupid be if a different obvious one could have sold more or made more profit.

For example, almost everyone thought the butterfly keys were a terrible idea. They sold a ton of devices with that, but then they switched back anyway.

Nextgrid• 6 years ago

It sold well because the competition is still worse. It doesn't mean you should intentionally make it worse just because you can get away with it (there's an argument that making it worse to lower cost thus earning more profit, but I doubt the added complexity of USB-C made the new design any cheaper).

acjohnson55• 6 years ago

I've said this in probably a dozen HN comments over the years, but my 2010 MBP is still my favorite computer of all time. It has a matte screen and 4TB of upgradable onboard storage. It was frustrating watching MBPs move progressively farther away from the features I really loved on that machine. Eventually, I jumped ship for the PC world again, where I found the hardware much more inspired.

The Airs are already quite powerful machines. Let them carry forward the legacy of the direction of the past several years, and make a truly differentiated offering for folks who do most of their work docked.

Also, a hill I will die on is that the Touchbar should have been a new UI paradigm at the bottom of a touchscreen. I'd also dig a Touchbar accessory for my keyboard tray. Just saying. But for the love of god, keep it off my F-key row.

kradeelav• 6 years ago

Cosigned, and writing this comment on my own faithful 2010 MBP. Still works like a charm, even if some sites don't load due to legacy browsers.

Having the correct USB plug-ins for my old-but-durable wacom tablet and an internal CD drive is still critical for my usage and I can't believe some of those parts were the first to go in the madness. Currently tempted to switch to the M1, but still worried about loosing the parts mentioned.

blue1• 6 years ago

Seconded. But why legacy browsers? My mid-2010 MBP, still going strong, runs High Sierra, which supports all current browsers.

dijksterhuis• 6 years ago

my 2010 MBP is still my favorite computer of all time

Seconded. Mine has dents all over the body, battery has been replaced a few times, upped the memory and replaced the optical drive with 1TB storage.

It's performed surprisingly well for over 10 years. Once had to visit the "geniuses" to replace the logic board after a few years, but that's it really.

Its worked in pubs behind the bar, as a live mixer for audio gigs, as a development machine, as a university note making machine...

Although now I've got what seems to be a hardware fault with the display where black pixels turn bright green. That and the fact the speakers and microphone are shot to pieces means I'll have to move on soon.

End of an era for me. I will miss this machine dearly.

On jumping ship: if I can work out a way to get iTunes + Apple Music running reliably on Linux I'll be jumping over there asafp. Not liking the software direction (news/rumours?) Apple has taken recently.

egypturnash2• 6 years ago

god I miss matte screens, I really need to find a matte screen cover for my current MBP

georgebarnett• 6 years ago

Weird. My 2016 12” MacBook is still almost my favourite machine. I say almost because the M1’s speed is _incredible_, but I do miss the smaller size and flatter keyboard.

Pfhreak2• 6 years ago

I am really happy that my macbook uses usb c. I'm sad to hear that it is going away.

Today, my Mac interoperates with all my other devices, I can keep one charger running to the edge of the couch.

It's not the end of the world to flip back to the magsafe, but it's definitely not ideal for me (and I suspect others.)

linux2647• 6 years ago

Who’s to say you couldn’t have both? HN cynics aside, given that Apple is invested in USB-C/Thunderbolt, I would imagine that you could charge with either MagSafe or USB-C

Pfhreak2• 6 years ago

This would be great.

lambdasquirrel2• 6 years ago

There's some rumors that it'll have Magsafe and USB-C.

emptyparadise3• 6 years ago

I like the premise of a single universal port but over the years it turned out to be kind of bullshit because there is no single "USB Type C" - there's 2.0, 3.0, 3.1, USB4, Thunderbolt and god knows what else. There are all sorts of weird incompatible peripherals and even cables that at best will not work and at worst will fry your device. I like USB-C (whatever variety it is that allows for docks with display connectivity) as a docking port, but it failed to solve the connectivity problem otherwise - it's the same mess of weird ports underneath, but now without the ability to quickly guess with a good degree of confidence if a device will work with your computer or not based on the port shape.

I think I'd much rather have both USB-C and standard USB-A/HDMI/SD card ports.

genuine_smiles3• 6 years ago

It’s working for me. I like being able to plug my laptop, tablet, and switch into the same charger.

dingaling• 6 years ago

There are several USB-C cables with magnetically-connected tips on AliExpress, it wouldn't seem too difficult to make a breakaway junction in a cable using that principle:

https://m.aliexpress.com/item/4000374403062.html

cpgonzalez• 6 years ago

The article's criticism of the 12-inch MacBook are preposterous. The 2 lb Macbook is the best laptop I've ever owned, by far. Maybe I'm too sensitive about weight, but I feel an incredible difference between 3 lb and 2 lb laptops, especially if its sitting on your lap for extended periods of time. The keyboard and charger have never once been a hindrance to my workflow, as the article makes it out be. I really wish Apple would come out with 2 lb laptops again. Latest line of Macbooks (the "Air") weigh in at 2.8 lb minimum.

jeppesen-io• 6 years ago

I can't upvote this enough. Everytime I pull out the MacBook 12 I just feel joy using it

asiachick2• 6 years ago

I agree I wish Apple would find a way to make a 16inch MBP weight 3lbs and an Air weigh 2lbs. It *seems* possible given an 12.9 inch iPad Pro only weighs 1.4lbs and other manufacturers have entries in that range.

For whatever reason this idea always gets downvoted but I believe it will happen someday and every who downvoted will suddenly "get it".

MrRiddle4• 6 years ago

I assume they could do it, but by reducing battery life to what it was before.

However, if you can’t bare a laptop heavier than 2lbs may I suggest you’re in the wrong line of work.

deergomoo2• 6 years ago

I wish Apple would find a way to make a 16inch MBP weight 3lbs

This could be reasonably possible with Apple silicon—well, maybe not 3lbs, but noticeably lighter than the current model.

Part of the reason the 16” is so heavy is the 100Whr battery (which still manages to be woefully inadequate due to how much power the CPU sucks, let alone the GPU).

The 13” ASi Pro has a 58Whr battery for “up to 17 hours” use, which seems to pan out to about 12-14 hours real-world usage. They could put that exact battery in an ASi 16” and it would still be leagues better than the “up to 11 hours” battery in the current model, which in my experience is actually 3-5 hours.

least2• 6 years ago

It seems possible given an 12.9 inch iPad Pro only weighs 1.4lbs The iPad Pro's weight jumps up significantly if you have to add a keyboard and trackpad to the mix. Though personally I would welcome a tablet mac with no included keyboard since I use an ergonomic keyboard the vast majority of the time anyway.
and other manufacturers have entries in that range.

The one that comes to mind is the LG Gram series, of which they make a lot of compromises in order to accomplish their weight goals. Opening up the chassis of the LG Gram 17 and 15 you'll see a lot of empty space and a battery that is much smaller than it could accommodate. I think it'd be doable if apple made a 16 inch variant with the m1 chip in it but I'm not sure that you could without making similar compromises that LG does.

Personally for a 16 inch laptop I'd rather have longer battery life and processing power which I think more closely aligns with people who prefer the larger form factor anyway. Still, it'd be nice to have options!

fomine3• 6 years ago

I wonder when will Apple stop using Unibody for MacBooks. I don't like the body overall because it's heavier, too cool on winter, and its style not attracting not much anymore.

girvo• 6 years ago

While I find the performance just not up to par, I completely agree.

emdowling2• 6 years ago

Like everyone else, I love the MacBook 12. Give me one with a M-series, at the same (or less) weight, with Touch ID and the new keyboard. Like others, I don’t need more than 1 port. Not discounting anyone else’s need for it, but after living with it for a few years I really don’t need additional ports.

gambiting2• 6 years ago

The thing is that while you might be reasonable about this, there seems to be a completely baffling number of people whose argument seems to be "I don't need it, therefore they shouldn't include it". It's like.....no one is forcing you to use these extra ports? But it's very nice to have them and some people will need them. If it doesn't increase the weight or thickness of the device(and it definitely doesn't to add another USB-C to the 12" MacBook) then I don't understand why some people literally treat it like some betrayal of what the device is.

mobilio• 6 years ago

I also love MB 12!

cehrlich• 6 years ago

The 12" MacBook was a fantastic computer. I used one from 2016 until a few weeks ago. However many of the (perfectly reasonable) compromises that Apple made to build this tiny 12" ultraportable also ended up being applied to the rest of the product line, where they just don't make much sense. Specifically the 2016-2019 MacBook Pro were really affected by this.

sdjkglb• 6 years ago

Yeah, the only people that seem to criticise the 12" macbook are people who've never owned one. I still have my 2016 12" m5 and it is a fantastic little machine for people that need to be mobile.

In fact the other reason I got it was that the rest of the line (in Sept 2016) was not appealing at all. I had been set on a maxed out 13" pro, but hated the touchbar. I thought of the 12" as a stopgap until Apple realised the error of their ways.. turned out I would be waiting half a decade.

shrimpx4• 6 years ago

Its drawback is poor performance but it’s ok for basic use — surfing the web, typing docs and notes. I almost got one in 2015 if I could code in it but I tested it and it was way too sluggish.

However a 12 inch MacBook M1 would be incredible.

novok4• 6 years ago

TBH I'm surprised apple didn't make the 12 macbook M1. The air is already fanless and the M1 chip is only 10W. I guess they really wanted to impress everyone with battery life numbers.

emptyparadise3• 6 years ago

Sounds too good to be true.

lilyball• 6 years ago

I’m really hoping this rumor is false. I want the 13” M1 MBP scaled up to 16”. I don’t want an SD card, F keys, MagSafe, or any of the rest of that.

sitkack4• 6 years ago

I want the M1 MBA scaled to 16", I do want SD card, F keys, and MagSafe.

BluSyn• 6 years ago

My controversial hot take--

I have never needed an SD card, and have gone all-in on USB-C. I will be very disappointed if they add back in USB-A/HDMI/SD ports, or remove USB-C charging in favor of proprietary charge port. Sounds like unnecessary feature bloat. Please just do MagSage + USB-C, so I can maintain my one-cable-for-everything, making traveling lighter and simpler. Here's my counter argument to all those that love MagSafe: makes traveling a huge hassle, forcing me to carry a special charge brick that only works for ONE device. In 2021 going forward, I will flat refuse to spend money on anything that doesn't use USB-C or Qi charging. I can now travel with a single 2xUSB-C power brick, and charge all devices from the same cable. This is a huge step forward, please don't reverse this.

I am all for removing the TouchBar. The new MacBook Air with TouchID + physical function keys is a perfect combination of features. There are a few things about the TouchBar I do like -- eg, having a custom one-touch screen lock button that's always present. However vast majority of the time I use external keyboard+trackpad+monitor, so the touchbar can't be part of my usual workflow anyway. Removing this reduces cost and complexity.

Please. Just keep it simple.

riffraff2• 6 years ago

They could put the magnet as an end of a usb cable. You would still use the same brick, and just plug a different cable if you want to charge a different device.

Seems like a reasonable tradeoff to me.

rozab• 6 years ago

That would just defeat the point of having USB-C charging. Only the one proprietary cable would stay in the port.

Brajeshwar2• 6 years ago

May I suggest a little different look at the use of SD Card slot on your MacBook (Pro). About 5 years back, I had one of those SD Drive stick-in for MacBook Pro that stays there. There were few (Nifty Drive, MiniDrive, etc).

The primary use I see are;

1. Have a clone backup of your primary drive. (Carbon Copy Cloner, SuperDuper, Time Machine).

2. Have an extra storage handy for a rather economical price without lugging around an extra drive.

crossroadsguy2• 6 years ago

I am always amazed at how people do not even think of this excellent use-case (let alone use it). This is something I have always loved in laptops and have used. Besides that card is barely even visible unlike a pen drive or a hard disk. It just stays there subtly.

I was also planning to have a bootable Linux on one of those, but I never got around to actually doing that. Now that my 2012 MBA's flash storage is dead (and here in India either I can't find replacement, or repair shops are asking for half a kidney) I will see if I can actually use a card instead.

pdimitar• 6 years ago

I have a 512GB SD card plugged at all times in my iMac Pro and I use it as an entry point for various backups (which get distributed to cloud storage for redundancy after).

I too am a bit confused by the non-popularity of such a setup. SD cards are okay for rarely changing data (or data that changes little, exactly like the incremental backups) and are extremely compact.

I view SD cards as the diskettes I always wanted to have some 26 or so years ago.

genuine_smiles3• 6 years ago

Is any of this controversial?

manmal2• 6 years ago

Do you take photos or videos with a camera other than an iDevice? I do, and I have to use a dongle every time to transfer data. Those wifi SD cards are a joke.

I agree that they should not remove USB-C charging. People by now have powerbanks, or USB-C ports in their car that would stop working. However, my daily driver still is the 87W charger that came with the MBP, for the simple reason that it’s the fastest option to charge. I‘d be glad if they switched that to MagSafe - just yesterday, one of my kids almost pulled the MBP from a table while I was looking away.

tornato7• 6 years ago

My camera, like many modern ones, has USB-C and can transfer photos over Wi-Fi, so I find it pretty convenient to connect to a Mac.

eyelidlessness4• 6 years ago

Maybe I’m being naive, but when a common IO interface has been pretty much standardized for several years, I’m confused by why people are asking the companies dedicated to the standard to make exceptions and not asking the companies stuck on exceptions to adopt the standards.

thrwyoilarticle• 6 years ago

No, I don't. So why should I sacrifice space for my battery to accommodate those who do?

guidedlight2• 6 years ago

Amazon has a bunch of magnetic USB-C adapters that are designed for MBP’s, that add the MagSafe functionality into existing USB-C ports.

I haven’t tried one, but they look like an adequate middle ground.

plussed_reader2• 6 years ago

Unless you have other things routed besides power through the bus.

wila• 6 years ago

I haven’t tried one

Tried several and they're no good.

soylentgraham• 6 years ago

I tried almost every lightning & micro usb magnetic adaptors I could find, and they all were unreliable. Im waiting for anker to make one.

theodric2• 6 years ago

My shitty Surface happily charges by its USB-C or proprietary port. It also has a USB-A port, which is mighty handy for plugging in Plantronics dongles. I'll be glad to have the same possibilities on a MacBook.

coldtea3• 6 years ago

I have never needed an SD card, and have gone all-in on USB-C. I will be very disappointed if they add back in USB-A/HDMI/SD ports, or remove USB-C charging in favor of proprietary charge port. Sounds like unnecessary feature bloat.

I'm on the same side, though I wouldn't mind one-two USB-A ports added for when I'm on the go in a hurry without a USB-C/A cable. Or the addition of some smart "mag-safe but still usable USB-C port" combo.

But given the complaints from the "moar ports" side and the complaints from the "USB-C all the things" side, one thing is clear: There's no pleasing some people, there's doubly so not pleasing all the people, and Apple has to make its choices and be done with it.

That said, while I believed in the initial promise of the touchbar (especially for specialty apps like DAWs, NLEs, etc), I welcome its removal now, and I think most do.

The one improvement I could see to make it workable would be a full keyboard with separate, tactile keys (the same as we have now) but with changebale legends/colors. That would make learning shortcuts in new apps etc or customizing key behavior very nice. It will also enabled on the fly switch to different keyboard layouts (e.g. from foreign language like AZERTY to Dvorak) complete with key legends.

smichel173• 6 years ago

one thing is clear: ... Apple has to make its choices and be done with it.

It is not clear to me why Apple cannot sell a small handful of models. Two otherwise identical machines, one all-in on usb-c, the other with a mix of ports.

llampx8• 6 years ago

But given the complaints from the "moar ports" side and the complaints from the "USB-C all the things" side, one thing is clear: There's no pleasing some people, there's doubly so not pleasing all the people, and Apple has to make its choices and be done with it.

Knowing Apple and their quirky fanbase, I daresay that the "remove all the ports" people wouldn't exist, if Apple wasn't the manufacturer removing the ports. Nobody ever said, "hey this headphone jack here? I hate it. This HDMI jack? Hate it. SD card reader? It is killing me."

Same with "VGA port? I hate it. Give me a proprietary port and a dongle"

tomjen33• 6 years ago

I should point out first that I don't believe these rumors are correct.

But I need an SD card reader all the time, my camera and my field recorder both use them and it makes it super simple to transfer data - without having to carry an extra cable. I don't see why a device that claims it is aimed at professionals (especially creative professionals) could justify omitting it.

My solution is a dongle, but as you say, then you have to travel with an extra cable.

chrisseaton11• 6 years ago

But I need an SD card reader all the time

Ok, but I never need one for my profession so I don't want the port. Which one of us gets it the way we want it? We both can't have it our way. They went for people who want to use it are the ones to use a dongle, which seems fair to me - the person who wants it pays for it.

johnwalkr3• 6 years ago

Same here. I like the touch bar but unless they find a way to make it feasible on a Bluetooth magic keyboard, I’d rather have no touch bar for consistency. If they are going to kill it they should have killed it with the first M1 MacBooks.

I’m also all in on USB-c (even my shaver uses it for charging) and don’t miss MagSafe at all. Charging from either side is surprisingly handy. One charger for everything is a traveling game changer. $50 worth of charger and dongles has a permanent spot in my luggage.

Hopefully MagSafe in this case means wireless iPhone charging. I just don’t need MagSafe power in. I especially don’t need it now that the battery life is so long. I charge at my desk and if I use my MacBook somewhere else I don’t even take a charger with me.

That being said I wouldn’t mind one USB-a and one HDMI port. Since the rumour is for a less rounded design I guess the edge thickness may be enough to easily support those.

mbirth3• 6 years ago

If you use an iPad as a sidecar, there's a touchbar there. However, that touchbar only works for apps you've moved onto the sidecar display for some reason.

solarkraft• 6 years ago

Hopefully MagSafe in this case means wireless iPhone charging

That would require a massive change, since you can't transmit power through metal. I can't really see the top surface being made out of glass, thus the only other place for charging would be the touchpad.

smichel173• 6 years ago

I’m also all in on USB-c (even my shaver uses it for charging)

It's funny how different people's experiences can be. Maybe it's because I'm not in the Apple ecosystem and tend to use my devices until they break, but I own a single device that uses usb-c: a raspberry pi 4b. There are two other usb-c ports in my house, one on my laptop and one on my desktop, but I've never used them. I don't even own a separate usb-c cable (the pi charger is integrated).

I kind of dread making the switch for peripherals because I'm going to have to replace everything.

ralphc• 6 years ago

Yes, that's what I appreciate the most with the USB-C on my 2019 MBP. No matter where I am I can plug the charger in on either side nearest to the wall. Of course with the M1 or later ARM chips charging will be less of an issue.

lovelyviking3• 6 years ago

However vast majority of the time I use external keyboard+trackpad+monitor ... one-cable-for-everything, making traveling lighter

How those two work together? Do you take external monitor , trackpad and keyboard with you ? It looks like most of the time you are not using your laptop as a laptop, when you need everything on the go and you wish to be prepared for diff scenarios. Then you wish laptop as much packed as possible and preferably nothing else, so you would avoid caring many dongles with you.

KptMarchewa• 6 years ago

You can have your stuff in many places, and travel between them. I have monitors and keyboards in my home, my office and my parents home.

BlackVanilla2• 6 years ago

I love this and have considered doing it myself. However, what worries me is whether using a single power adapter will shorten the life of devices which require different levels of wattage. Sure you can use the same USB-C cable, but the benefit is largely diminished if you have to carry a bunch of different power adapters for each device's unique wattage.

Or am I worrying about this unnecessarily?

zenexer• 6 years ago

Just carry around a first-party Apple charger that matches the highest draw among your devices. Using a higher-rated charger won’t hurt anything.

davidrm• 6 years ago

It’s not a concern, the more powerful the charger, the better.

The devices that are being powered are the ones controlling the charging, the charging brick will derate itself if devices demand more than it can handle. It might hurt the brick, it will get hot or perhaps noisy if it’s a cheaper one.

It’s like openning every single faucet at your house, as long as the pressure and flow at the source are ok, the faucets will output the same as in any other case, otherwise each faucet will “slow down”.

rfoo• 6 years ago

You are worrying unnecessarily. These devices use USB-PD to negotiate how much power it wants with the power adapter, and a well-behaving power adapter would refuse to output anything above the minimal current without the negotiation happening.

allending• 6 years ago

Worrying unnecessarily. The USB PD spec requires negotiation of delivered power - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USB_hardware#USB_Power_Deliver....

19962• 6 years ago

Or am I worrying about this unnecessarily?

You are. Provide a lot of amps. Each device will take just as much as it needs. So err on the side of more watts - it will even help your batteries charge faster.

The only thing that can be diminished with fast charging is the number of battery cycles (the battery lifetime) so set a low charging engage (only charge if <= 50%) and a high ceiling (stop charge if >90%) in your bios: this will increase your battery life.

Source: all my devices use USB-C. They all share the same AC adapter with power delivery, and a Lenovo Dock also USB-C with PD.

No USB-C charging = I don't buy.

rzzzt• 6 years ago

USB-C is probably smarter and more unified in this regard, but back in USB 2.0 land the devices negotiated how much power they need/can accept, and compliant adapters wound themselves down as appropriate: https://www.maximintegrated.com/en/design/technical-document...

AndriyKunitsyn• 6 years ago

What is “unnecessary feature bloat”?

Do you think something like “gosh, I _hate_ all these additional ports” about MBP 2015? There’s a reason it is still holds (not much, but) some value on second-hand market.

aphextron• 6 years ago

There’s a reason it is still holds (not much, but) some value on second-hand market.

Not much? A base model 15" 2015 RMBP is still easily $800+ on eBay. Unheard of for a 6 year old laptop.

ghaff2• 6 years ago

They did hit a sweet spot with the MBP 2015. They did have to replace my screen under a special warranty program for manufacturing defects but it's still a perfectly fine laptop I use all the time. It's a bit on the heavier side for travel and I'm sure its battery life is not what it was--and was never super in the first place.

I'll almost certainly get an Apple Silicon laptop at some point but I'm not in any rush especially at a time when I'm not traveling.

Terretta2• 6 years ago

I do hate the extra ports when at the beach.

It’s easy enough to find usb-c rubber gaskets to keep sea salt air out, but not for arbitrary ports or slots.

https://smile.amazon.com/gp/product/B07BPNBNJ5/

augstein• 6 years ago

If you really want or need MagSafe, as I do, you can have it with USB-C only Macs too.

There are many magnetic adapters you can buy, the good ones working better than the original MagSafe 2, which easily fell off when using MacBooks on your Lap, due to the connector being T shaped (instead of MagSafe 1 being L shaped, which worked great).

I also hope they don‘t bring back SD card readers and big clunky HDMI ports into the MacBook lineup, potentially reducing the amount of USB-C ports and making some models thicker.

skohan4• 6 years ago

I hope they don't bring back USB-A, but the SD card slot and hdmi have been sorely missed. If you do anything with photography, being able to just plug the card directly into your laptop makes a world of difference. Same thing with walking into any meeting and already knowing you'll be able to plug into a projector if needed, without having to run out and grab a dongle.

supermatt• 6 years ago

Of the MANY different ones I have tried (both 24-pin tb3 and 20-pin usb-c) NONE of the magnetic adapters work the same as a regular connection. When they are plugged in and you close the lid (macbook pro m1), they keep the display active. When using a "proper" cable, the display sleeps.

If anyone has found one that works properly, please let me know where I can get one!

Edit: Not sure why I am getting downvotes for this... Care to enlighten me?

qqii• 6 years ago

It's important to note these adapters go against the USB C spec.

pharmakom• 6 years ago

If Apple can make a Magsafe cable for USB C that would be the best of both worlds. (I know third parties have made them but Apple would probably do a better implementation)

I also can't wait for the removal of the Touchbar. This prevented me from buying previous Macbooks because it was just one compromise too far for such an expensive machine.

Is this Apple's "Coke Classic" moment?

Symbiote• 6 years ago

Doesn't Apple generally make worse cables than the competition?

It is very rare for a PC laptop power cable to break. There's a rubber grommet which protects the cable as it enters the plug from extreme and repeated bending.

For supposed aesthetics, Apple don't include this, and their cables fray easily.

(This is based on my experience managing hardware for a small organization, <50 staff. After about 5 years, Apple laptops come back with damage to the shiny screen from rubbing against the keyboard, and usually a wrecked power supply cable. Sometimes we have to replace the PSU within the 5 years. The rest of the laptop is usually in good condition, i.e. the case, keyboard, ports.

Dell/HP/Lenovo/etc business laptops come back with the cables in good condition, the matt screens suffer less even with similar keyboard marks, but the cases usually look a bit scruffy. Depending on usage, we might have replaced the battery after ~3 years, which is either easily done by the user, or takes 5 minutes with a normal screwdriver to remove the back case.)

ofou2• 6 years ago

The problem with the TouchBar is that it disrupt the flow of attention towards the keys. The cool thing about having just ONE screen is that you can forget about looking your fingers because the content is fixed (not dynamic) and therefore can be internalized. The TB doesn't solve any problem, and by the way, it created a UX's hiccup because:

Attention is limited. Focus is limited. Flow is limited.

Don't break that Apple.

mojuba• 6 years ago

Agreed but let's also give credit to Apple for trying to innovate. The TouchBar wasn't a bad idea just that it probably wasn't tested thoroughly with all types of users. It more seems like a "I think everyone's going to love it" kind of a designer's idea. Anyway, would happily buy a model without it.

jcelerier• 6 years ago

so I can maintain my one-cable-for-everything, making traveling lighter and simpler.

you mean one-cable-plus-12-50€-adapters right ? ffs most projectors are still VGA

sradman• 6 years ago

There are a few things about the TouchBar I do like -- eg, having a custom one-touch screen lock button that's always present.

The trackpad preferences allows one or more corners to be assigned to locking the screen. One swipe away works well.

matwood2• 6 years ago

I agree and also don't see a need to go back. As what always happens with these rumors, people filter it through the lens they want.

Already mentioned elsewhere, MagSafe could just mean there will be a charger for the iPhone in handset portion of the new MBP. Ports can also mean a lot of things, even releasing an Apple branded dock of some sort. Imagine a branded dock that you just set the MBP on and it charges and has a bunch of ports that can be used? That is much more Applely than adding usb-a back.

The Touch Bar has been on life support for awhile. When Apple never released a version for the desktop, they relegated it to a niche feature regardless of how useful it could have been.

sneak• 6 years ago

Anyone who shoots photos or videos on a real camera uses SD cards near-constantly.

It wouldn't affect your not using the port for them to include it. Adding magsafe doesn't mean not supporting usb-c charging, or removing any usb-c ports.

Your take obviously isn't that controversial: the maker of the best laptops in the world agrees with you, or at least they did at one time.

dividedbyzero• 6 years ago

It's really annoying though that I still have to stick SD cards into readers; my Fuji X-T4 doesn't support acting as a proper SD card reader and CaptureOne 20 can't fetch images off camera devices ... meanwhile the camera is plugged in for USB-C charging anyway...

vinay4273• 6 years ago

the maker of the best laptops in the world agrees with you

Who exactly would that be in your opinion?

muro• 6 years ago

I wish. Nikon uses XQD

m4635• 6 years ago

An extra port is not inconvenient - you just won't use it. A missing port is SUPER inconvenient.

Can't tell you how annoying it is to require a USB-A dongle or adapter, same with HDMI.

rbanffy4• 6 years ago

The extra port competes with USB-C. If Apple wants to make USB-C more valuable to users, they must ensure companies make more products for it and, therefore, remove such redundant ports.

I have an HDMI monitor connected to my MacBook via a USB-C to HDMI/USB dongle, which also charges the computer, keyboard and trackpad, and another another via a UDB-C to DisplayPort cable.

I've been using my SDcard based camera less and less, both because my phones got much better and because they are much smaller. With an iPhone, which is a pretty decent camera, everything happens transparently and all my photos are automagically imported.

A reasonable docking station/port extender is small and has all those ports. I keep one in my backpack (even though I used it like once while traveling).

I really prefer it this way. I'd also love if Apple went back into making monitors that could charge my Mac and offer plenty of rarely used ports on its back.

chrisseaton11• 6 years ago

An extra port is not inconvenient

An extra port:

- is e-waste for everyone who never uses it

- reduces the rigidity of the case

- increases costs

- adds weight

- takes up space

- lets in dust and potentially liquid spills

You can see why people who never use them say ‘no thanks’. Isn’t it better that the people who do want them take on the costs of the port via a dongle?

jimnotgym• 6 years ago

Since 2015 we have had all this clutter in the meeting rooms with different chargers, adaptors for monitors, projectors etc. In fact every mac user I know has a little hub to run everything! I'm currently using a Thinkpad and I have never felt that I had too many ports! I don't carry any adaptors.

gsich• 6 years ago

Why not both. Allow Magsafe charging and USB-C, have USB-A ports/HDMI as well as USB-C. There is no space constraint on the devices. Most of the edge is unpopulated.

anthonyaykut• 6 years ago

I’m in the market for a reliable single 2xUSB-C power brick — could I ask which one you’re using?

gorbypark2• 6 years ago

I have a 65W Baseus 2x USB-C with 1x USB3 port charger that's pretty good. The only problem with it is that when a device is plugged in and it "splits" the wattage between the ports, it temporarily cuts off the power (I'm talking like 100-200ms or so) to the devices. I had some issues trying to power a Thunderbolt 3 dock with it. Anything with a battery is no issue, though (phone, laptop, etc). I also assume any multi port charger is going to have similar issues, all the ones I've seen do the "wattage splitting" thing when there's more than one device plugged in.

retromario• 6 years ago

eg, having a custom one-touch screen lock button that's always present

Do you know that clicking the TouchID button will lock your screen?

cassianoleal• 6 years ago

Indeed. So does ⌘⌃q (Command+Control+q).

67868018• 6 years ago

If they remove USB-C charging they won't be compliant with the spec anymore which means they can't use the USB logo in their marketing materials

paulcole• 6 years ago

I hate to break it to you but Apple’s marketing materials don’t rely on the USB logo to do a lot of heavy lifting.

yourapostasy• 6 years ago

Not a fan of Apple's USB-C port implementation. Loosened ports that no longer "click" when a cable is plugged in is a common problem [1], and plagued my MacBook Pro straight out of the box. Even after getting it fixed under AppleCare, planting the laptop on a cradle at my standing desk, then leaving it there for months with no activity due to WFH for the pandemic, a dozen cable insertions of a USB-C drive last week and it started on one of the ports again.

If Louis Rossman had a more permanent fix with a third-party compatible port part that is far more durable, I'd send my now-un-AppleCare'd laptop to him in a heartbeat.

[1] https://appletoolbox.com/are-your-macbook-usb-c-ports-loose/

willyt• 6 years ago

I love the idea of standard ports everywhere, I just wish it was apple or some other good multidisciplinary design team that had designed the standard. Lightning and MagSafe are the best out there. They feel satisfying to use; the lightning click is the phone equivalent of the German car door clunk, likewise with MagSafe, I also like that the connector tells me if its charging or not with the green/orange light on the connector. They are resistant to dust and electrically reliable. They fail safe; The lightning connector in the cable breaks, unlike mini/micro USB which knackers the port in your device if you bend it by accident. If you trip over the MagSafe cable it just pops off. The standardised ports seem to have mechanical and experiential design as an afterthought. In terms of the physical connector (not the capabilities of the port), USB-C feels like a step backwards from lightning.

mstade• 6 years ago

I’m with you, for all the listed reasons. Travel is so much easier now that I’ve usb-c-ified all the things. The only thing I wasn’t able to find a usb-c option for (back in the dizzy) was a 4g modem, but that’s ok I just stopped using it altogether and started tethering my phone or iPad instead. I often use my iPad Pro as a second screen, so usb-c there also. I do carry a small dongle that I got just in case, but I think I’ve used it maybe five times in the past two years.

I really don’t miss MagSafe, and I find the MagSafe usb-c adaptor solutions one can easily get these days to be quite a good compromise for those that truly want it.

The only thing bothering me is that lightning connectors are still a thing on iPhones. The second they release a usb-c phone I’m getting it. Usb-c all the things!

Oh almost forgot, hard pass on replacing the Touch Bar though. I know people hate it, but for me it’s much more useful than Fn-keys. I don’t miss them, and once the Touch Bar with a physical escape key showed up that was it – perfection. I hope they keep Touch Bar as an option at least, brilliant piece of design in my opinion.

As always, mileage varies etc.

memetherapy• 6 years ago

A "halo" market segment for mac books is video and photography professionals who make extremely heavy use of SD cards. Appealing to this group (who are also willing to pay a premium) has always been a feature of macs. Devs, not so much.

fluffything2• 6 years ago

I have a MacBook Air 2012 with an SD card reader.

It has a 256GB SSD drive, and a 1 TB SD Card inside that I use for storing photos, video, music, etc. essentially everything that does not need fast storage.

This laptop was only meant to be a 1 year temporary solution, so I’ve been waiting 9 years to upgrade.

I’ve yet to find a new reasonably priced MacBook with 1,256Gb of built in storage.

Carrying an external drive sucks.

Unless Apple makes 1-2 Tb SSDs lower in price to the 100$ mark, the lack of an SD card is a killer for me.

Paying 500$ for an extra 256GB SSD when I can get 1 Tb SD card for 100$ is just ridiculous.

texasbigdata• 6 years ago

This is sort of unreasonable too hot too cold type thinking.

If you need a certain price point for a certain feature, why not expand to not limiting your search to only one manufacturer, which seems to be your binding constraint here since you’ve delayed updating 7 years, instead of expecting a manufacturer that has less than 10% of the total market share of an industry to meet you needs?

xiphias2• 6 years ago

Apple could just make 2TB MacBook price cheaper instead of bringing back SD card reader into new models.

I didn't like having only 256GB SSD either in my Razer laptop and just bought a 2TB one, changed it in a few hours myself, and never thought about SSD space since.

TravelPiglet• 6 years ago

Too true. Apples extra tax on storage is horrible. Baseline model with 256 GB drive of which half is required for the OS to function normally if you use is as something other than an iPad is crazy to release in 2020.

The price difference between 8GB/256GB and 16GB/1TB is insane.

api• 6 years ago

I agree all the way up to the 16” pro. When you hit that form factor it now has plenty of room for more ports and I find them useful.

pokot0• 6 years ago

Apple is pretty smart when adding features most of the time. Maybe they just add strips of magnets to a usb-c so you can still use the port with a normal usb-c cable and still benefit of magsafe with the proprietary adapter. Anyway, I did enjoy MagSafe when it was there but I don't think Apple will go back. They'd rather focus on making sure you only have to charge your laptop at night.

varispeed3• 6 years ago

I use SD cards daily to transfer data from cameras or different devices for further processing. It is handy to be able to just slide it in. I also have a dongle in an other laptop which works fine, but you need to be careful with these - I bought one cheaper dongle and it totally destroyed my SD card upon inserting. Unfortunately there was no backup as there was original material on it. So now I first do backup on a trusted SD card reader and then use it anywhere else.

exhilaration• 6 years ago

The dramatic decline in camera sales has been discussed a few times on HN, here's a random google result: https://www.mirrorlessrumors.com/dont-look-at-this-graph-sho...

Cameras are rapidly turning into a niche product, it makes no sense for any laptop manufacturer to include an SD card reader at this point.

jmcnulty• 6 years ago

Ditto on the request to retain USB-C charging. The ability to charge phones + Chromebooks + a MacBook in my house with interchangeable power blocks and cables is a huge benefit. MagSafe just isn't worth it.

alsetmusic• 6 years ago

Agreed on MagSafe + USB-C. What I find interesting is the interpretation of this bit:

- There will be additional I/O ports

I’m pretty sure that simply more USB-C ports also fits that description. I don’t know why someone would assume that means SD card slots are coming back. I don’t see a future where Apple has SD slots on notebooks.

blhack• 6 years ago

Then get a MacBook Air? The whole point of the MacBook Pro was that it was feature rich.

The amount of dongles and crap I have to carry around with me to make effective use of a “pro” laptop is ridiculous. Good on Apple for fixing it.

nwotnagrom• 6 years ago

Agreed. I do hope they keep USB-C. The one cable that works for all was actually a convenience for me as I could charge a macbook, ipad, and even a samsung galaxy phone all with the same single cable.

dillondoyle• 6 years ago

FYI if you didn't know - even if it is widely known I have not known about super basic features hidden behind UI - you can use hot corners to lock screen very quickly. I use bottom right corner.

ak217• 6 years ago

"Keeping it simple" is how we got here. People are unhappy because ports were removed. I want my microSD port back, and I don't think it will hurt you if you don't use it. Even if you pour coffee in it, it will just fuse itself off as long as there's a properly engineered rubber gasket in it.

You do bring good points about usb-c/magsafe. I hope they can make magsafe work with the usb-c port.

ashtonkem2• 6 years ago

People were unhappy about the loss of the physical headphone port too .... for a short while. Then most of us went over to Bluetooth and stopped complaining.

Sometimes removing ports is dumb, sometimes it’s a smart reflection of what trends are clearly already happening.

the_mitsuhiko• 6 years ago

I drank the USB-C kool-aid that Apple proposed but it just completely failed in practice. I now carry multiple different (and incompatible) USB-C cables which is in no way better than the magsafe + usb charger I had before.

Three years ago I had one USB-C charging brick with a lightning and USB-A cable and my macbook magsafe brick.

Now I carry a USB-C charging brick with a lightning cable for ipad and iphone, my USB-C charging brick for my macbook pro with a USB-C PD? cable, a USB-C -> USB-C cable for my external SSD (which I cannot use to charge my macbook and the charging cable of my macbook does not work with it). Additionally I have a USB-C to USB-A adapter with a USB mini cable for my headphones and mifi dongle and a separate adapter for HDMI and SD.

I ended up with more cables and I would be in that situation for at least two years more until the last mini USB devices are discarded. But even in that case I end up with multiple USB-C cables just because they are incompatible to each other.

john_alan• 6 years ago

You’re doing it wrong. You don’t need all of those cables. Get one that works with all of them.

You also only need one high watt brick not lots of different rated ones.

mcot22• 6 years ago

I agree with MagSafe basically being in the cord after the USB-C connector. That way we can use existing power cords or the new one with MagSafe if we want to.

throwaway2048• 6 years ago

Don't worry, once they do it, you will think how brilliant it is.

strogonoff5• 6 years ago

I have a dock that has all the connectivity options I need (an entirety of which can’t possibly fit in a portable device) while stationary, and it also charges my laptop. While on the go, I can pick dongles for what I need at the time. Most of the time it’s either nothing or a memory card reader.

The need for memory card reader becomes increasingly rare, as devices have AirDrop, cameras have Wi-Fi, and for larger files like CinemaDNG footage I’d have to use a portable SSD anyway which connects over USB-C.

Besides, memory card dongle dies and I buy a replacement for $20; built-in card reader dies and part of my laptop is dead weight until I send the whole thing in for service.

I can’t come up with anything I can imagine being useful as far as extra I/O is concerned, considering how blazing fast TB 2 and USB 4 already are; perhaps there are some novel connectivity options though.

mc102• 6 years ago

built-in card reader dies and part of my laptop is dead weight until I send the whole thing in for service.

Is this a frequent occurrence for you? I have a 6 year old MBP and all of the ports still work great. I would naively guess that P(port breaking) << P(dongle breaking).

studius• 6 years ago

I have never needed an SD card

I need to use SD cards for my camera and RPis. That's a significant amount of users that would buy Macs, even if you don't use them.

and have gone all-in on USB-C

The move to Thunderbolt 3 / USB-C seemed to be hinged on the assumption that all new products would be USB-C. The prior removal of the headphone jack[1] and replacement of the lightning-adapter airbuds included with new iPhones set precedent to allow them to continue to simplify. But there's a big difference between (a) providing a replacement that effectively works the same way and (b) having a market based on being best and svelte, but expecting that the average customer can and will buy replacement lanky adapters and big ugly hubs that get in the way (especially when the cheaper ones can cause more interference[2]).

Apple once had a "Think Different" campaign, and perhaps that transmogrified to "Be the Change" in the 2010s. "Think Different" was about producing the best product, with a quality product that worked better, not about forcing customers to take on the burden of a mess, making their lives more difficult and looking out-of-control. "Be the Change" is activism which often causes problems for some, with a goal of things becoming better. "Think Different" works better in product design and development. "Be the Change" is for Human Resources and Marketing.

Please just do MagSage + USB-C, so I can maintain my one-cable-for-everything, making traveling lighter and simpler. Here's my counter argument to all those that love MagSafe: makes traveling a huge hassle, forcing me to carry a special charge brick that only works for ONE device. In 2021 going forward, I will flat refuse to spend money on anything that doesn't use USB-C or Qi charging

It's expected to have Thunderbolt 3 (in form of USB-C) on it. I'd assume that they will allow charging the computer from it, as that's part of the spec of Thunderbolt 3; I'm not 100% on that, but as keeping that capability would be part of the Thunderbolt 3 spec which includes Thunderbolt, USB, DisplayPort, and 100W power input[3]. It just wouldn't charge as quickly.

This MagSafe will probably be the Qi-supporting MagSafe[3][4] which can be 15W for faster charging or 7.5W for Qi and will probably support the ring chargers, probably under the touchpad, given design choices from existing charging stands[5].

I can now travel with a single 2xUSB-C power brick

And you would probably be able to do that, but it will charge faster with MagSafe.

I am all for removing the TouchBar

Yep. I couldn't easily change brightness or volume when in context specific mode with the settings I had by default, and it was distracting.

It can be emulated[6].

[1]- 1/8" headphone that in some Macs had optical out: https://support.apple.com/en-za/guide/mac-help/cpmh0052/11.0...

[2] https://www.zdnet.com/article/usb-3-and-usb-c-devices-can-ca...

[3] https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT208368

[4] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MagSafe

[5] https://amazon.com/Kensington-SmartFit-Ergonomic-15-6-Inch-W...

[6] https://github.com/sindresorhus/touch-bar-simulator

stirner• 6 years ago

I’m with you. Maybe it’s something specific to being a techie and having a ton of peripherals, but being able to connect power, display, keyboard, mouse, webcam, backup drive, Ethernet, etc. with a single cable when I sit down at my desk was absolutely worth the somewhat pricey TB3 dock, especially when switching between work and personal devices.

I’m fine with them adding ports back as long as they still let you do PD into the TB3 ports. It’s still not super easy to determine exactly what features are supported by different devices/adapters/cables, especially when dealing with USB-C. However, it seems like a bit of a backslide on a bold move to push the state of the art forward that I believe was the right move.

Re: MagSafe, I honestly think they would be better off making a MagSafe adapter—a pair of small terminals which connect to the end of the power cable and the port that connect to each other magnetically. I imagine they could make this pretty low-profile and clean. But then it wouldn’t be exclusive to Apple’s own hardware, so I doubt they would ever go this route. A quick search turned up an existing adapter [1] that supports 100W PD and 40 GBPs data transfer so it’s definitely doable.

[1] https://www.newsshooter.com/2020/03/30/magrig-magnetic-usb-c...

thefunnyman• 6 years ago

My biggest wish would be for them to embrace standard display adapter technology and stick with usb c. I have a lot of thunderbolt docks that only work on Windows because of Apple’s outright refusal to support MST [1]. I recently switched to a Mac for work and this has been a major pain for my docking setup. Funny enough, it all works fine if you bootcamp your Mac since Windows supports MST. [1] https://discussions.apple.com/thread/251444928

llampx8• 6 years ago

Plenty of Windows laptops support TB3 docks, it is not something unique to Apple and definitely does not preclude having other ports on the machine for when you don't carry your TB3 dock.

aeturnum• 6 years ago

Apple's approach to ports is bad design.

I think they were envisioning a USB-C revolution that hasn't come yet. You can buy new devices or buy adapters, but either way the computer is asking the user to adapt to it. I have a Razer laptop for playing games and they have some USB-C ports and some USB-A. One of the USB-C ports connects to the thunderbolt bus. On paper, the Razer has less connectivity bandwidth, but it's my macbook that I always fuss over.

I see the attraction in making all your ports USB-C, but that's just not where the computing world is yet. Give us 3 USB-C and 2 USB-A. Give us 2 of each and a specialized charging cable.

P.s. I would be more into the USB-C charger if I believed it was 100% safe to charge other devices with it, but I'm not sure that's true (even though I trust Apple - I'm not sure about the other devices)[1].

[1] https://www.androidauthority.com/state-of-usb-c-870996/

agumonkey2• 6 years ago

But MagSafe solves a clear problem IMO, DC connectors are fragile and tripping on the cable will either harm the solder joints or make the whole machine fall.

Maybe a magsafe like adapter for usb-c then ?

alistairSH• 6 years ago

Maybe a magsafe like adapter for usb-c then

That would be my preferred solution. USB-C port on the laptop, small MagSafe adapter, and then the charge cord with the other half of the MagSafe.

astrostl• 6 years ago

The value of a given port corresponds to the ubiquity and lifespan of the things that plug into it. HDMI is not going anywhere in the corporate world for the forseeable future. As for MagSafe, as long as they keep some USB-C ports you will presumably be able to charge that way too.

behnamoh11• 6 years ago

Yeah, people can be selfish when it comes to ports...

I bet during their market research, Apple had people like you in their focus groups.

nrvn• 6 years ago

This. Fully agree on usb-c (usb4). Magsafe in some shape or form and just MOAR usb4 ports would suffice.

I am all in with usb-c connector.

Industry is moving forward. Don’t rewind.

P.S. The article behind the link is based on rumors spread by “trusted” Apple “analyst”. Treat those accordingly.

lambdasquirrel2• 6 years ago

On one hand, this seems like welcome news for many of us. Who doesn't miss MagSafe?

A lot of the previous years was like someone at Apple read Calvino's Six Memos and took the notes on "lightness" a little bit too far.

On the other hand, one wonders if we'll have to replace all the sleeves and bags that have been made with the previous dimensions in mind. Hopefully not. Even the new 16-inch MacBook Pro fits in sleeves and bags designed for the previous 15-inch.

eyelidlessness4• 6 years ago

Not only does the 16” fit the 15” sleeves, it’s nearly identical in dimensions and weight to the 15” models everyone praises before the bad keyboards. It’s basically a 2015 MBP with a slightly smaller bezel.

eyelidlessness4• 6 years ago

Apparently someone disagrees with this statement of facts about the measurable dimensions that are trivially verifiable.

dwaite4• 6 years ago

On one hand, this seems like welcome news for many of us. Who doesn't miss MagSafe?

I don't miss MagSafe 2. The laptops had gotten light enough that the selling point (would come detached if someone snagged the cord) meant that the magnet had to be weakened. The cord constantly came undone.

Bits attracted by the magnet would be lodged in the port sometimes, interfering with the charging in odd ways as well.

I had a lot of Magsafe 1 chargers, which compounded the frustration. I had to use a little magnetic dongle.

The cord was attached to the brick directly, so when it frayed (not if, when) you were out $100. Your brick was now a brick.

It was a big charger I couldn't use to charge anything else I travelled with (phone, ipad, headphones, etc), _and_ there were zero third party accessories (battery packs, etc) that worked with it because it was proprietary/patent protected.

If laptops have enough power to go 12+ hours on a single charge, the value of magsafe goes way down. I'm not operating the thing on a kitchen table with a cord draped down and across the room to the wall. I am charging it overnight.

Not to mention, there's a huge benefit of sitting down at a desk and having a single USB-C/TB cable to plug in to get connected to everything, including power.

If the choice was magsafe or USB-C charging, I'd pay extra for USB-C.

moreati• 6 years ago

I'm typing this on a MagSafe laptop. I don't like MagSafe.

The cables fray and the MagSafe tips wear out, that means buying an entire new charger (or soldering on a donor cable), I'm on my 5th or 6th. The surfaces get dirty, and because they just butt up (rather than sliding) they become high resistance and heat up.

If MagSafe 2021 doesn't fuse the cable to the charger brick, then I might consider it. The fickle electrical connection is inherent to the design though.

raverbashing• 6 years ago

All Apple cables fray because of design decisions around the stress relief area

I'm also typing this on a Magsafe laptop going since 2011 but I'd doubt if it would still be good if it was a plugged in connector, as my previous laptops died around that area.

vimy• 6 years ago

My 16” still fits in the sleeve I’ve bought for my first Macbook Pro. The 15” 2006 model.

apetrovic• 6 years ago

I don't miss MagSafe.

I enjoy being able to sit on my kitchen table and plug USB-C cable on the right. And if my favorite chair is used by my cat, I can sit on the other side and plug the cable on the left. On the other side of the cable is a third-party charger that I'm using to charge my iPhone (with damn Lightning-USBC cable, when will Apple drop Lightning?), iPad and Nintendo Switch. And when I sit on my desktop, I connect my laptop to the monitor with just one (USB-C) cable.

Previously, I had to have two separate proprietary chargers and hope that the cable don't break; now I can just buy another USB-C cable anywhere.

aetherspawn• 6 years ago

I'm sure someone smart will design a way for USB-C to plug into your MacBook without the risk of ripping out your I/O board if you trip over the cable.

We don't need magsafe, we just need some sort of clever springy socket.

dwaite4• 6 years ago

The USB standard is pretty specific about connectors; I doubt the resulting connector would be licensed to be called USB.

sitkack4• 6 years ago

The keyboard! I have an M1 mac, I typing this from a 2012 macbook air. The new keyboards are utter crap! They are still crap. If I could have the M1 in an x220 shell, with the mac trackpad, I would be good.

genuine_smiles3• 6 years ago

Have you tried the 2019 16” MacBook Pro keyboard?

sitkack4• 6 years ago

Ok, I just switched back to the M1 from the 2012 MBA. Keyboard is just too shallow and key travel is just too short. It is improved over the butterfly but it still isn't as good as the 2012.

The machine you mention is my work machine, but it has been docked and I haven't really broken in the keyboard.

The previous work machine which I typed in probably 20k words a day was a butterfly keyboard mac. I hate that machine with a passion, I want to buy it back from my employer and bisect it with a plasma torch.

jspash• 6 years ago

I'm typing this from a 2019 16" MBP keyboard. And I can say without a doubt that it is my favourite keyboard of probably 10 macs I've ever owned. There is a Macbook Air sitting nearby which I just tried for comparison. It's pretty good too. But the MBP 16" is just lovely. Quiet. Enough feedback.

The only gripe is, and this might be true of all Mac backlit keyboards. Is that I can see light coming from under the keys when viewing it at a low angle such as when I've got my feet up and it's on my lap. Not just through the letters, but little slivers of light under each one.

goatinaboat• 6 years ago

The new keyboards are utter crap!

You can imagine the Apple of old hiring a team of researchers to determine the absolute optimal key travel and springiness. The Apple of today wants to make things that look nice on display and are never actually used.

foldr3• 6 years ago

The new keyboards are utter crap! They are still crap

Hold on, are you claiming that the new scissor switch keyboards have similar reliability issues to the older butterfly keyboards?

If not, then this is really just a matter of taste. You can't please everyone with keyboards. People do genuinely have different preferences regarding feel and key travel. It honestly seems hyperbolic to describe a keyboard that most people find completely functional as "utter crap".

I personally love the feel of the older butterfly keyboards. I also think that Apple fixed the reliability issues with them in their last generation. At least, I've not had a single keyboard issue with my 2019 MacBook Pro or MacBook Air.

sitkack4• 6 years ago

I am not saying they have similar reliability issues, not enough time has passed for that to be determined. Utter is too strong of a word, the keyboard has the same qualities for me that made the butterfly keyboards suck.

They may have fixed the reliability issues, but they have not fixed key travel issues. The person that designed this keyboard is a very particular person, and this person probably does not like the keyboard in the 2012 MBA.

It isn't just preference, the new keyboard is slightly uncomfortable to use, the key pressure is too high and the travel too low, so the impulse on the tendons is too sharp.

The gist is that Apple has over designed its product and made design the number one metric. Design only works when it is subservient to function.

rckoepke• 6 years ago

I'd love if it had an excellent webcam. I imagined the M1 would have a better webcam than the 2015 Retina MBP but instead the newest built-in webcams are significantly worse in quality.

I'd imagine including a camera system from an iPhone would make a huge difference for Apple's users given the popularity of remote meetings these days.

dwaite4• 6 years ago

Unfortunately the back lid is not thick enough for that - even the iPhone isn't thick enough for the iPhone camera system, hence the "bump".

I actually wouldn't mind something closer to the iPad + magic keyboard design in a pro macbook, which would have the thickness needed for a significantly better camera.

johnwalkr3• 6 years ago

Why not have a bump in the MacBook screen with a small penalty in trackpad size?

yoz-y• 6 years ago

iPhone and iPad front facing cameras do not need a bump and they run circles around the crap in MacBooks though.

maz1b• 6 years ago

For what it's worth, I have a fully specced out out 2019 16-inch MacBook Pro with 64gb of RAM and the 5600m upgrade, and I can frankly say that these rumored MacBooks are actually exciting compared to what I have.

What I feel strongly that Apple should do:

- Allow for USB-C AND MagSafe charging (MagSafe 2 would be ideal but I won't be upset if it's something else)

- Ensure that the 4 USB-C ports are all equally capable of bandwidth and don't suffer from any drawbacks in that regard.

- Great thermals / fan noise and still handle demanding workflows

- No Touchbar. I love the idea, but it should be in addition to the Fn keys, on top of it, or in some other way.

grishka3• 6 years ago

The last paragraph mentioning touchscreens is weird. Please don't add a touchscreen to a device running a desktop OS. 99% of people won't be using it anyway, but it would lead to those atrocious spacious phone-style UIs I despise so much.

speedgoose5• 6 years ago

Give a MacBook to a child and she will likely try to touch the screen. Because at this point a touch interface is expected by people.

Even me who is used to non touch screens user interfaces, I tend to touch the screen on a non touchscreen laptop once in a while. It's frustrating that it doesn't work, because it does work on my ThinkPad and I enjoy it.

Apple not having a touchscreen option on their high end laptops is weird, since they did so well with the iPhone and the iPad.

At least that would help developers to implement touch interfaces for iOs. Or not feel dated for the younger generations.

grishka3• 6 years ago

IMO it's important to maintain a clear separation and not blur the line between desktops and tablets. Desktop UIs are dense, they're your tools to get your job done as efficiently as possible. You can position the mouse pointer quickly and with great precision, so there is no need for ample spacing between the controls.

It's okay when a professional tool has some learning curve to it, but after you're past that, it's a joy to use.

And no, desktop UI design shouldn't be informed by phones and tablets. When designing a desktop UI, you should pretend touchscreens were never invented.

That being said, I do know one person who has a Windows laptop with a touchscreen and does occasionally tap or scroll something on it. Myself, as someone who has never owned one of these, I maintain this clear separation between mobile and desktop in my head and have never had the thought of touching my laptop screen except to clean it.

bluescrn• 6 years ago

In general, where there is a touchscreen, there is a dumbed-down UI with significantly reduced functionality.

Touchscreen devices are great for content consumption and communication. But not so much for creating anything.

General purpose computers, with precision input devices, are still required by many for getting serious work (and play) done.

mbirth3• 6 years ago

Think of the new M1 macs and how they can run iPad apps and how lots of developers opted out of their apps being offered for those new Macs because their apps are meant to be used on a touchscreen, not via trackpad and keyboard.

wtallis3• 6 years ago

That opting-out is a good sign. Apple and their customers shouldn't want the Mac platform to become polluted with half-assed ports that retain a touch-oriented UI rather than designing a UI that's actually appropriate for desktops and laptops.

deergomoo2• 6 years ago

Agree 100%, this is a hill I will die on. The usual counter point is “well you don’t have to use it”, but once it’s there developers will inevitably start to change their software to account for it.

Not to mention that reaching out to touch a vertical surface is clumsy and unergonomic, even if the UI is designed for touch, like an iPad in a keyboard case (which I expect is why they added pointer support).

layoutIfNeeded• 6 years ago

Cool! On top of this if they would reintroduce the headphone jack on the iPhone, they would completely redeem themselves in my books.

underseacables2• 6 years ago

Now that’s just crazy talk. Apple? Never. That is one mistake they will ever walk back on. It took a LOT of courage[0] to remove it.

[0]. https://splinternews.com/profiles-in-courage-the-product-man...

c17r• 6 years ago

I don’t care that they removed the analog in favor of digital, I'm annoyed that it’s just. One. Port. Give me two lightning ports so I can use headphones and charge without resorting to a dongle and I’ll go along with it. As it is I haven’t bought a new iPhone since my 6S plus.

wodenokoto• 6 years ago

I think everybody is forgetting that apple repurposed the name “MagSafe”.

I think “MagSafe and new ports” translate to having a magnetic area where you can place a iPhone 12 MagSafe charger or charge your iPhone 12.

What new keyboard translate to, I have no good guesses, but I do have a feeling that if you think it’ll be 2015 keyboard you’re in for a disappointment.

coldtea3• 6 years ago

I think everybody is forgetting that apple repurposed the name “MagSafe”.

Well, they could trivially just multi-use it for all kinds of magnetic+safe ports, whether they are the round iPhone ones or the more traditional ones.

What new keyboard translate to, I have no good guesses, but I do have a feeling that if you think it’ll be 2015 keyboard you’re in for a disappointment.

They have already fixed the 2016-2019 keyboard issue in 2019 models, so why would people be "in for a dissapointment"? It's not like they'll go back to the 2016-2019 era keyboard mechanisms...

zxcvbn4038• 6 years ago

This is a really exciting development! Everything I miss from the 2013 MacBook Pro - no final word on what ports are being added or if they are bringing back the SD slot, but MagSafe, a working keyboard, and an escape key are themselves welcome.

The touch bar ended up being completely useless except for muting/unmuting zoom calls and smashing the left hand side seventeen times in a row until it finally registers as an escape key - I guess Apple devs don’t use vi. I was thrilled to have Touch ID at first but ultimately it only gets used in the control panel because apparently Apple doesn’t let anything else use it. I largely stopped using u2f keys because it was too much of a pain to dig up a usb-a dongle and I didn’t want to spend $50 on a usb-c form key that still doesn’t work on iOS.

awll• 6 years ago

If you are a vi user, you could consider using CTRL-[ instead of escape. I find this to be more comfortable and quicker to use anyways and you wouldn't need to use the touch bar anymore

mozey2• 6 years ago

I like mapping jk (and kj) to escape. For lefties I imagine df (and fd) would be more convenient. Both sequences are unlikely to appear in any words. They're on the home keys, so least effort to move your hands. https://vim.fandom.com/wiki/Avoid_the_escape_key

lovelyviking3• 6 years ago

Since 2015 I cannot even choose Mac Book Pro that would just fit for work with all that idiocy with touch bars, malfunctioning keyboards, lack of SD card slot and idiotic dongles, instead of working horse that has everything you need and makes things simpler, not harder.

But even MBP 2015 had gracefully died just recently having the best user care from me you can possibly imagine. This really encourages to move away from Macs. I do not wish to pay premium money for shitty equipment.

This 2015 model have just fallen apart, starting with screws that by some unknown to me reason where unscrewing themselves and you cannot not tight them back because some idiot made them non standard to make sure you really cannot do it, not even with the knife.

Then I discovered that screen has traces of buttons after closing the lid. Then I discovered those small traces are unremovable. Nice design.

Then battery even with a proper care died anyway after third of a cycles it suppose to have.

Then SD Card slot was reading only some of the cards, while cheap neighbour’s laptop had no problem reading all of them.

Then I discovered that connecting MBP to external monitor gets it heated too much to the level that loud funs make it unusable.

Then internal screen stopped working completely.

Then after some time this shit failed to boot at all ( even with external display).

I should also mention power cord ( with cheap plastic) that became yellow and was not always connecting , while it was carefully kept from banding too much.

HDMI that in critical situation did not work, with the best cable you can get.

Mac OS that was constantly confusing where the main screen is, forgetting the ‘mirror’ option at will and so on....

Overall the experience is horrible.

I have other models from previous years and nothing like that had happened.

And I am told MBP 15inch mid2015 is considered to be one of the best models from recent years, as after mid 2015 models are even worse, not mentioning lack connectivity that renders them useless for mobility I need.

So looking at the way Mac is made these days finally I hear something sane as I am not at all convinced they would continue to sell ‘tons of Macs’ in the following years otherwise.

I think only inertia saves them in such situation but for how long? In my case I cannot move from the platform now because naively I’ve decided to write a ‘proper File Manager’ for Mac. I am using what I wrote and I simply cannot live without it. I also cannot leave it unfinished as this would be a huge waste of effort. So I’ll have to finish it, and only then think of porting it to other platforms.

Right now I do not know even what do. Buy another 2015 one ?which could fall apart just as this one did? Buy new model? But which new model? They do not even have a model I need and looking at the quality of the shit I was counting on ... well, I see really no good options. Those with Touch-bars are unacceptable, smaller screens then 15 inch too. I would actually wish 17 inch for work in case some one sane from apple is reading. I wish model that have _all_ possible connections including USB3 which are still around a lot so I would not have to think about those stupid issues and concentrate on my work. And I have a lot of work. This is the way and how it _should be_ with a ‘proper laptop’.

Concentrate all _necessary_ ports_ on one left side at least pwr and video ports so I would not have dongkes or “Y” shape wires when you hold machine whike connected to external screen. Put only redundancy ports on the other side, and yes we need redundancy ports.

Bring magsafe back, this was good as long as the cable is not cheap-made so it can band nicely if required.

Having IRreceiver never hurts anyone especially those who have bought apple IR remote. I was using it when teaching tango for controlling music remotely so I do not have to run to the machine each time I wish to say something. It was so convenient, now for the same thing I had to make custom dongle with arduino.

There is no need for huge trackpad, the previous size was good enough and calming because you do not worry about palm faulty touches.

Half sized left/right keys where better then full sized, so you would not confuse them with alt-key. Why there is no ctrl on the right side? It inconsistent with left side and inconsistent with full-sized keyboards for muscle memory. And do not dare to remove it from big ones, please.

Oh yes, and bring me back my line-in as separated socket! Big thanks to one ’smart genius’ who removed it in 2015 model, combining it with phones port. Also this ‘genius’ made sure to activate it _only_ automatically with Apple headphones to create as much troubles as possible to connect my guitar on the go.

More then that, when you connect phones to listen what you are recording, and already agree to stupidity of recording sketch through the mic instead of a proper line-in you cannot choose what mic to use. Thus you cannot choose one built-in , so you end up recording with mic on the phones wire near your neck hitting your shirt or guitar as you play. ‘thank you very very very much’ for that. It has spoiled many good moods.

I wander about those who design those Mac Book Pro’s ... did they ever tried their creations or thought forward about real life situations and applications ? Or after Jobs there is no one who can do it and see how laptop should function?

If they so wish their touchbars, why not to put them _above_ function keys ?! Make option to turn them off completely if required so they would not disturb at night or stand on the way. They never heard of people with muscle memory? It is that hard? Goodness, it’s so obvious. I can go on and on ...

I feel I was robbed really with this 2015 model, I wish I could use those money for something more useful ...

nprateem• 6 years ago

Sort of the same here. I've used a mac for 7 years and when it dies I'll get a Windows machine and dual boot it. There's nothing keeping me on a mac and justifying the price. So long Apple

underseacables2• 6 years ago

I want the features of the 2012 MacBook Pro in the body of the latest model. Bring it all back and keep the slimmed down less useful model for ppl who don’t need functionality.

ricg• 6 years ago

Anyone still remember Apple Remote?

It used to come free with your MacBook and is to this day one of my favorite features of my mid 2012 MBP that I will miss terribly once I have to upgrade (no Big Sur support...).

uncledave3• 6 years ago

Yeah had one with my first gen intel iMac. Great idea that was. The whole machine got used as an audio source regularly.

conesus• 6 years ago

I built the Turn Touch remote[1] to basically bring back the old Apple Remote features. Music and video control for your laptop.

[1]: turntouch.com

vinay4273• 6 years ago

I almost never ended up using that remote, quite honestly. I got a lot more use out of the remote/stylus that my smartphone came with which I could use to play/pause media, take pictures from a distance, and obviously write or draw.

matwood2• 6 years ago

Yep, it was great. I used it regularly to give presentations, and many people were curious about the remote (where it came from, was it included, etc...).

trestenhortz• 6 years ago

RAM is the feature I care about and Apple has always been stingy with RAM.

bitwize• 6 years ago

My guess is that the leads in the new MagSafe correspond to USB-C power rails, and if you plugged in a charger into the machine's USB-C port, it would charge just the same.

I mean, if I were Apple, I wouldn't settle for anything less.

Dongles are expensive and cumbersome. If Apple is adding back legacy ports, good on them.

Mistri• 6 years ago

I'm excited about everything mentioned in the rumors, except for the "flat edge design similar to the iPhone 12". One of my favorite parts of the MacBook design is how easy it is to pick up off of a flat surface with one hand. The tapers help me slide my fingers underneath the computer to hold on. I feel like if there is a flat edge, it'll be hard to grip on the side unless you're using 2 hands.

uncledave3• 6 years ago

What is like is one robust enough to pick up by the top of the screen like the thinkpads.

Also my Dell XPS is so bad if you pick it up by the corner of the unit it flexes enough for the touchpad to trigger clicks. Ugh.

scyzoryk_xyz• 6 years ago

Fair point.

I do think that they have a team in place to make these decisions and the experience you’re describing was thoroughly tested and designed already.

One thing they’re frequently berated for is an emphasis on visual aesthetics. But I think that’s a misunderstanding - they design for function, and the aesthetic pleasure comes from that function.

I suspect they will find a way to make these match the visual look that these leaks suggest, without abandoning what you’re talking about. Probably with some tapered edge shape or something like that.

keepingscore• 6 years ago

Was this team on holiday when they designed the mouse to have it's charging port on the bottom?

fastball6• 6 years ago

They definitely have not been designing for function over form, at least while Jony Ive was there without Jobs to curtail his worst impulses.

S_A_P• 6 years ago

I’m happy to give up thinness for SD card and HDMI. I use my MBP with a bunch of hardware samplers old and new which use SD for sample import and storage. I never use the Touch Bar and miss F keys dearly(development duties). The next MacBook that reverts back to the above is an instabuy.

hatchnyc• 6 years ago

I use two MacBooks for programming for several hours each every single day, my personal machine has a touchbar, my work machine does not. I realize this is blasphemous to say and I did think I would hate the touchbar for all the reasons, but I actually ended up liking it.

I had imagined myself tapping virtual function buttons and the whole thing seemed silly and useless and worse than having physical keys, but VS Code and other dev tools actually have good integration, and when I open an app like Adobe Illustrator which I don't use frequently enough to memorize all the hotkeys it's quite handy to have the commands listed.

jessriedel2• 6 years ago

Yea, what I really want is physical keys that travel but also have OLED screens built in on the top. Expensive, but best of both worlds.

escapecharacter• 6 years ago

I hope this is Apple's eventual goal; "expensive and best of both worlds" sounds exactly like something Apple would do.

wwweston• 6 years ago

I wonder if e-ink might be better -- less energy, could work with a general keyboard backlight?

bebna• 6 years ago

nobody hates the touchbar, they hate that a row was sacrificed for it, instead of just adding it on top.

behnamoh11• 6 years ago

Please only speak on your behalf, not “everybody”.

netsharc• 6 years ago

Hospital PA: "Mr Art Lebedev to the design HQ please, Mr. Lebedev" https://www.artlebedev.com/optimus/maximus/

qwerty4561274• 6 years ago

I wouldn't mind having a touch bar if that didn't imply not-having the physical F-keys row. I actually want both. And an additional, programmable row of physical keys if only this was possible :-)

Jonovono2• 6 years ago

Interesting, I would think most programmers touch type which at least for me make the touch bar useless. Since it's always changing I have to look down to see what button I am about to press. For me, if it's something common enough that the touchbars ability to change makes that functionality useful I would have found or made a keyboard shortcut for it.

I just upgraded from a MacBook pro to a MacBook air for the main reason it not having a touchbar, and it's much better (for me)!

hugey010• 6 years ago

In many situations, you don't have to look at the touchbar to know what the keys are. For example, when using terminal, vim / ide emulation, I know left is Esc key. It does make spamming Esc feel less weird to me.

Imagenuity• 6 years ago

I'm accidentally hitting something on the touch bar all the time, which for me far outweighs anything useful it might do (which is never).

rbanffy4• 6 years ago

Honestly, the thing that I like the most about this is the wonderful IBM 3278 terminal in the background. Those things were the best terminals I ever used (even though they couldn't scroll) and had the very best (although the loudest) keyboards ever built.

Which reminded me I released a new version of my 3270 font yesterday, so it's doubly fortunate.

usremane• 6 years ago

I still use my 2015 MacBook Pro. Built in hdmi port, card reader, USB ports, MagSafe charging.

blumomo• 6 years ago

After years of fighting with the broken butterfly keyboard, the missing ESC key (Vim!) and Apple’s recent ambitions in censorship, I finally made the move, after 15 years with Macbooks, to switch to a free and more transparent platform, as in “a system that respects the user’s freedom”. Yes, moving to System76 and their Pop! OS will come with efforts of re-abituation but I appreciate the freedom that comes with it.

tailspin2019• 6 years ago

All of these opinions (from this comment thread) perfectly sum up my view of the Touch Bar.

It's one of the reasons, aside from performance, that I believe that the M1 MacBook Air is currently the best laptop that Apple make.

I am all for removing the TouchBar. The new MacBook Air with TouchID + physical function keys is a perfect combination of features. There are a few things about the TouchBar I do like -- eg, having a custom one-touch screen lock button that's always present. However vast majority of the time I use external keyboard+trackpad+monitor, so the touchbar can't be part of my usual workflow anyway. (BluSyn)
while I believed in the initial promise of the touchbar (especially for specialty apps like DAWs, NLEs, etc), I welcome its removal now, and I think most do. (coldtea)
I also can't wait for the removal of the Touchbar. This prevented me from buying previous Macbooks because it was just one compromise too far for such an expensive machine. (pharmakom)
I like the touch bar but unless they find a way to make it feasible on a Bluetooth magic keyboard, I’d rather have no touch bar for consistency. If they are going to kill it they should have killed it with the first M1 MacBooks. (johnwalkr)
The problem with the TouchBar is that it disrupt the flow of attention towards the keys. The cool thing about having just ONE screen is that you can forget about looking your fingers because the content is fixed (not dynamic) and therefore can be internalized. The TB doesn't solve any problem (ofou)
the Touchbar should have been a new UI paradigm at the bottom of a touchscreen. I'd also dig a Touchbar accessory for my keyboard tray. Just saying. But for the love of god, keep it off my F-key row. (acjohnson55)
No Touchbar. I love the idea, but it should be in addition to the Fn keys, on top of it, or in some other way. (maz1b)
If they so wish their touchbars, why not to put them _above_ function keys ?! Make option to turn them off completely if required so they would not disturb at night or stand on the way. They never heard of people with muscle memory? (lovelyviking)

vemv• 6 years ago

Honestly I've never understood why laptops are so strongly associated with developer culture.

They are inefficient and conflated machines - two things that tend to be contradictory with software engineering.

More practically, many people find themselves completely dependent on Apple's design whims.

Mac Pros (or server racks in general) are closer to the kinds of machines that we deploy to (they use Xeons for one thing). They don't overheat so easily.

Their 'sea of cores' approach enables more productive workflows and tooling.

And one gets to use his favorite peripherals, in an ergonomic position (instead of slouching around a laptop).

joaomoreno• 6 years ago

After having built a Ryzen Mini ITX setup about a month ago, I have to totally agree. Soooo smooth.

arusahni• 6 years ago

I feel like the migration to open floor plans and offices where you need to take your knowledge base everywhere (e.g., conference rooms) has lead to laptops being the default loadout for many companies.

fastball6• 6 years ago

One of the best things about being a software developer in 2021 is that I can do it from almost anywhere.

I'm not lugging my Mac Pro to a cafe. I'm certainly not taking it on a trip.

willio58• 6 years ago

For my development needs and work style I much prefer a laptop that I can dock at any workstation or just work off the laptop.

I recently worked off my laptop while in a car on a road trip. I just wouldn’t have that capability otherwise.

daxfohl3• 6 years ago

I just recently ditched my workstation for a dock and like it a lot better. I kind of miss having the dedicated computer in the home-office, rather than always having to transport my laptop from wherever it is. But I definitely like having a single machine to configure and everything being consistent.

kevindong2• 6 years ago

Meetings are generally held in meeting rooms (well, pre-Covid that is). In meetings, you typically have something to present or discuss over.

It's generally better for employees to have a single machine (that they're very familiar with) to present on rather than having a machine per employee in addition to a machine per meeting room.

pjettter• 6 years ago

Perhaps some day we can just present from our phones and even use them as a pointer at the same time.

qppo2• 6 years ago

All my presentation materials are in the cloud somewhere, I don't need to bring a computer anywhere these days.

fulafel• 6 years ago

It's because networking is so bad now that remote access to your workstation can't be relied upon.

YetAnotherNick• 6 years ago

I think laptops are more convenient as primary developer machine with the CPU heavy tasks being delegated to cloud. Most tasks take less than or much more time than around 30 seconds. This is the division I roughly take for running locally or in cloud. At least that's the workflow for me and most developers I know of. Having a desktop forces you to work in just one position and this could could cause a lot of obvious inconveniences like not being able to work in cafe or in both home and office.

SkyPuncher2• 6 years ago

They are inefficient and conflated machines - two things that tend to be contradictory with software engineering.

Perhaps by your set of metrics.

For me, it's the best option because I always have exactly what I need with me - locally. I can work from home, a coffee shop, an airplane, conference room, a different couch/chair/table, etc without a second thought.

I also rarely need the full compute power of a desktop. Sure, it'd help with cold builds - but incremental builds are so fast that it's just not worth being tethered to a desktop.

Aperocky3• 6 years ago

They are inefficient and conflated machines - two things that tend to be contradictory with software engineering.

They are a monitor with some processing ability, and we ask Apple to push ergonomics to the max.

Scapeghost• 6 years ago

I've never understood

This is the reason :)

bradlys3• 6 years ago

It’s so that engineering orgs can get you to work from home in addition to the workplace. They force you to take the laptop with you and then will try to make you work from home.

That is the only reason. Everything else is just seasoning.

u678u• 6 years ago

The most common response is often working from a coffee shop or plane. I dont understand those either, how can you concentrate in a coffee shop? How many flights do you really take? - get a book.

bitL• 6 years ago

Can't wait to see all the articles praising Apple for innovation next... We might even see a skeuomorphic UI again!

someonehere2• 6 years ago

Of course Ive pushed the design this way. He also designed the Apple Watch to be a design centric device and didn’t want it to be about health.

I wonder if any of these design choices are what led to him leaving. I’m almost confident a consensus was around one of these major changes he bet on and leadership heard all the nasty feedback across the web. Maybe Ive took it personally and just decided his time was over.

fastball6• 6 years ago

Ive was terrible for Apple as soon as Jobs was no longer there to curb his worst impulses. He's a great designer, but he's the kinda guy you want designing your concept cars, not your production vehicles.

someonehere2• 6 years ago

I bought a Microsoft Surface laptop 13” for work to test builds with. That laptop has a headphone port, USB-A, USB-C and a proprietary Microsoft port the power adapter plugs into. Don’t have that adapter handy while traveling? You can still charge it via the USB-C port with another charger. I can see Apple copying another facet of Microsoft’s Surface line. The other being the Magic Keyboard for the iPad Pro.

fastball6• 6 years ago

That sounds like a terrible idea. Why have a proprietary charge port if it can also charge with USB-C?

Brozilean• 6 years ago

Why would having multiple options be bad? It doesn't turn the usb c port into a useless port or anything?

jahnu• 6 years ago

Because it's a magnetic port similar to magsafe.

toper-centage2• 6 years ago

I had an XPS that had both and indeed it was useless to have a port for just charging. But if the charging port is also used for magsafe that makes it worth it.

Haemm0r• 6 years ago

Maybe because of the power requirements?

FractalParadigm• 6 years ago

All kinds of reasons - my biggest one being why MagSafe was invented in the first place; I know my power cord is run across the living room due to a lack of power outlets in my 70-year-old apartment, and gets tripped over regularly. Not to mention a proprietary charger can free up a USB port for additional peripherals.

beowulfey• 6 years ago

It’s a bit redundant, but pretty far from being terrible. I have it on my laptop. Offhand it’s nice to leave the port free if you have a lot of usb needs. If anything it provides some flexibility. Can’t say it’s necessary but I certainly don’t mind it.

javajosh2• 6 years ago

Yes, a terrible idea, like putting a motor on a sailboat! I mean, why would you ever need 2 methods of propulsion?! (Some boaters even bring oars and towline! Insane!)

interestica• 6 years ago

The MS proprietary cable doesn't follow the USB-c spec and can therefore do a lot more (and I think it's still expandable). I think usbc is limited to 20V @ 5a?. And using USBC for charging takes up a data port. And many docks and stands make use of the MS port. And the MS cable is magnetic.

SkyPuncher2• 6 years ago

I have a Surface Go with a similar setup.

The proprietary one is a magnet-style and rests flush against the device.

USB-C is convenient to have, but the proprietary charger is much better if I'm going to be using the device while charging.

dangerbird2• 6 years ago

Except in practice, you get the worst of both worlds: a proprietary charger that looks like a USB-C. And even if it is proprietary, the Magsafe and similar ports are miles ahead of any USB-C charger in preventing tripping and IO port damage from dogs, children, and clumsy adults walking over the charger (granted, USB-C is a huge improvement over traditional round DC ports)

madhadron• 6 years ago

We went to Surfaces in my house for a while. They're by and large fine, but Windows 10 is sufficiently painful and hard to use that I'm bringing the family back to macs just to stop having to do so much tech support.

_qulr• 6 years ago

Bring back matte screens too.

Glossy screens have been a disaster, not only ergonomically but also in terms of the never-ending "staingate" scandal of antireflective coating peeling off the screen.

mozey2• 6 years ago

Miss the matte screen on my 2008 MPB

exabrial• 6 years ago

I'm excited about this! Lotta different ways that could go but I'm hoping it's Magsafe-over-usbc so their whole lineup can be protected! (Well they need to ditch lightning on iPhones, but yeah).

raldi• 6 years ago

I agree about the return of function keys and preservation of Touch ID, but that's hardly a prediction; it's what they're already doing as they roll out new machines.

If you think Apple is returning the SD slot or adding a dongle to the power cord, you don't know Apple. But maybe they've found a way to magnetically connect USB-C while still maintaining compatibility and avoiding dongles.

markus_zhang• 6 years ago

I think it's a lot difficult for people NOT to change than to change. I do understand the reason: New employees seeking for ownership, teams need to grab for budget, etc. And I'd argue that keep changing is always better than NOT changing at all. The only thing is how to make more changes positive?

dwighttk• 6 years ago

Schiller had squashed all hope of the SD card returning ...
Schiller said “probably not” but added that “nothing about the future is in stone and things can always change.”

what?

rhacker• 6 years ago

Magsafe, was great unless you had a 5 year old laptop. After the 50th time you had a small magnetic rock get lodged into the plug and scrape the laptop's magsafe port enough, it stops being magnetic.

I can't agree more on replacing the touch bar.

Xcelerate• 6 years ago

It's kind of funny, because the last laptop I purchased (and the one I am still using) was Apple's first retina MacBook Pro as soon as it was released in 2012. I've refused to upgrade since then because I felt that all of the newer MacBook's were inferior in some way. Now I'm finally thinking of upgrading again once the 16" is released, and it's sounding like the new laptop will look exactly like mine from 10 years ago.

I'm not a fan of MagSafe though. It's always falling out whenever I slightly move my laptop around. And my thought with the touchbar is that they should replace it with physical keys, however, the keys should have tiny OLED displays beneath them. That way, if you want the function keys back, it will look at exactly like the rest of the keys on the keyboard, but if you want some other type of button, that's possible too.

zymhan• 6 years ago

IMO the last model of a generation is usually the best wrt Apple laptops. They usually have more efficient processors that run cooler, at the least.

shrimpx4• 6 years ago

That 2012 laptop is amazing! I put an ssd in it and moved the original HDD into the CD slot for extra storage. Total powerhouse.

Synaesthesia2• 6 years ago

I have even installed Big Sur on mine and it runs fine. (Needs a patch though)

taf2• 6 years ago

An SD card is useful things other than just cameras it also is a great thing for 3d printers. Yes some printers have usb and maybe I should spend a day or figuring out ocotoprint but I usually just use my SD card and get on with printing. My lap has a MacBook Pro 2015. It’s both sturdy and has all the nice features plenty of usb-b ports and sd card slot... newer PCBs are finally shipping with usb c support but I don’t see things like the teensy having usb c anytime soon...

JIBitator• 6 years ago

oh man... if they remove the touch bar I will be so happy. I have a macbook pro 2015 and I was planning to replace it next year with the M1 16 inches. That would be the perfect timing. Generation 2015 powa!

paulryanrogers• 6 years ago

No mention of user swappable batteries or repairability. :(

projektfu2• 6 years ago

I can't help but think this leak is bad for Apple's Mac business. It will be a while before these potentially superior Macs will be available, cannibalizing the sales of the existing line. I'm looking to replace my laptop soon and these potential features make me comfortable waiting and seeing.

I hope that they would make it chargeable from either the Magsafe or the USB-C, like the Surface.

Aperocky3• 6 years ago

I feel like Kuo has been subject to a honeypot.

I don't think there's any reason to bring back old ports or magSafe. I can totally understand getting rid of the touch bar though - but I don't even expect that to actually happen.

Given how long the god awful butterfly keyboard persisted, I don't expect these less awful feature (and some, like USB-C, is positive) to go.

cududa• 6 years ago

Yes, that’s generally why companies don’t like leaks around new product announcements..

theonemind3• 6 years ago

For all we know, this sort of thing might get leaked intentionally as a middle ground between between annoucing it and keeping it a secret.

The most interested and active users will know about leaked information, and they can put off buying decisions and have greater long term satisfaction. If you bought a machine and 2 months later, exactly what you wanted two months ago comes out, you probably won't enjoy that experience very much.

However, less discriminating users probably both won't know about the leak, and won't find certain things coming out quite as disappointing.

I think it probably works out decently for Apple even if they really don't want the leaks, much the way piracy probably helped Microsoft Windows by helping make it a complete de-factor standard (though Microsoft seemed aware of that and seemed not to crack down as hard as they might for that reason.)

mindvirus• 6 years ago

Touch Bar is interesting - it's really nifty, but I feel like touch typists hate it, and non touch typists love it.

My personal totally long shot wish is that Apple would switch to an ortholinear keyboard (because everyone else will do it too then).

Aperocky3• 6 years ago

They should really just sell both version, I bought the new mac air precisely because it doesn't have a touch bar.

theonemind3• 6 years ago

If you never have to look at the keyboard for anything ever, the touchbar takes away an useful row of keys and forces you to start looking down at the keyboard. I can't overstate how annoying someone who never has to look at the keyboard might find this.

https://robservatory.com/the-fundamental-problem-with-the-to...

"The Touch Bar, despite its name, is actually an Eye Bar: It forces your eyes off the screen, down to the Touch Bar, back up to the screen, repeat ad infinitum. There's nothing physical about interacting with the Touch Bar, aside from using your finger: There are no defined button areas, and there's no haptic feedback when you tap something. So you absolutely must look at the Touch Bar to interact with it.

When the new MacBooks were released, I spent about 30 minutes testing a Touch Bar-equipped version in an Apple Store, and this constant moving of my eyes' focus from keyboard to screen to keyboard to screen to…well, you get the idea…was incredibly disruptive. To use the Touch Bar, I'd have to change my focus to the keyboard, then refocus on the screen, taking time to find my active window and locate the mouse cursor. This did not make for a pleasant user experience."

acd• 6 years ago

I think Apple needs to rethink and design products that are built for serviceability. That means the end user should be able to service most parts of the laptop themselves. No plastic prying tools should ever be needed to service a laptop.

Battery -> User replaceable under a hatch. SSD -> User replaceable RAM -> User replaceable Screen -> User replaceable Motherboard -> User replaceable Keyboard -> User replaceable. Wifi Network card -> User replaceable.

And with that I mean you design to make the product easy to repair. Using standard Philips or torx screws whenever possible.

Current Apple products means using a lots of dongles for what should be built in.

Make repair videos on how to mend broken parts, put those on video sharing platforms like Youtube.

We are having global warming, that needs that all products needs to be easy to repair so that we have less waste on the planet.

mcot22• 6 years ago

Isn’t the RAM basically integrated onto the SoC now?

TacticalTable• 6 years ago

With the M1 as-is, yes. However, it's entirely possible that future M1X or the like will keep RAM separate.

usaphp• 6 years ago

Current Apple products means using a lots of dongles for what should be built in.

Who decides what should be built in? Some people might need SD card reader, others will need HDMI out, lan port is requested by others, I on the other hand don’t use any of that and would rather have my laptop to be lighter and thinner.

eknkc• 6 years ago

I don’t think most if these are possible with the recent form factors. I mean battery hatch / battery case itself would be a huge volume loss in the chasis.

People talk about repairability etc but at the end, most will demand the sexy and thin laptops.

jasonhansel• 6 years ago

Lenovo tried the touch bar approach with the X1 Carbon. But it didn't work out, users complained, and the next generation of the X1 removed it again. I wonder how many laptop manufacturers will try this again, only to need to revert it...

strogonoff5• 6 years ago

All the recent buzz about Apple’s supposed MBP updates traces back to a single source, which also has promised Apple AR glasses in 2020 (I bet this is why Bloomberg didn’t feel comfortable putting the name on the rumour).

The idea of additional I/O ports seems questionable, given performance of Thunderbolt 2 and USB 4.0 in latest devices. (Support for SD cards, which has the author so excited, seems especially dubious to me. Sure, there are professionals using SD cards, but just as well there are professionals using CF cards or microSD cards; it’d seem quite un-Apple to try to satisfy everyone.)

Then there’s the obvious stuff (microLED).

nt2h9uh238h2• 6 years ago

Touch bar is great, but should be an ADD-ON above the function keys, not replacing them.

nt2h9uh238h2• 6 years ago

MacBook Pro wish 2021: rounded-edges end-to-end screen, that's the future, like the iPhone and iPad have.

beyondcompute2• 6 years ago

Yes to the physical keys instead of touch bar!

yarcob5• 6 years ago

The nice thing about my 2015 Macbook Pro is that it's useful without any accessories. I can just throw it in a bag and walk out the door.

It's got enough battery life that I usually don't need to bring a charger. It has all the ports that I ever need. I can hook it up to a projector with the built in HDMI port, I can put in the SD card from my camera, or I can quickly copy files from someones thumb drive. I don't need to think about bringing the right kind of cables for what I'm planning to do.

Sure, the new Macs are a lot faster, but every Mac released after 2015 would be a downgrade for me.

oneplane• 6 years ago

I have the 2015, 2017 and a 2020 and they are pretty much all the same that way. None need a power source for normal workdays, I don't have a camera that needs to have memory cards swapped out, and all presenter displays are either ClickShare or AppleTV and thus wireless. I don't accept random mass storage devices, and for those few times that I do want one I use a multiport adapter which works with both the 2015 and all the newer ones (USB-C and USB-A connectors), which I also use for when WiFi is down and you need Ethernet. It's not much bigger than any Ethernet adapter anyway.

spijdar• 6 years ago

It's great that the built in ports cover all your needs, but my experience with laptops has been more complicated.

You use a projector as an example of a use for your HDMI port. In my limited experience doing presentations, I've run across a mixture of HDMI, VGA, and even DisplayPort for some reason.

Once, even though I was using a Dell Precision with built in HDMI and VGA, I ended up using a usb-c dongle with combo HDMI+VGA+DP ports I keep in my bag. My coworker had to wait for someone to get a more specific passive converter for their laptop which didn't have usb-c.

Obviously YMMV, but I've found the combo of usb-c plus a compact multi port adapter to be indispensable, even on a laptop with a crap-ton of ports.

shrimpx4• 6 years ago

My take is Jony Ive went extreme on form factor and totally lost his grip on users. He wanted an objectively perfect, extremely thin portless wireless machine. Now that he’s gone the design team is descending from the Ivery tower and undoing his work, meeting users halfway again.

aledalgrande2• 6 years ago

Yeah totally sounds like with Steve gone, there was nobody anchoring him to the ground.

yarcob5• 6 years ago

I really hope that you're right, but to be honest I'm not holding my breath.

I also don't think the 2015 Macbooks were perfect, it's just that I don't care about any of the new things Apple has introduced. What I would really like would be a cellular modem so I don't have to bother with hotspots on the train and maybe a stylus for marking up screenshots.

For my use cases, Apple expects me to carry a Macbook, an iPad, a stylus, and a pouch filled with dongles. I'm envious of the Windows folks, they get to have a single device that does it all.

weaksauce2• 6 years ago

He wanted an objectively perfect, extremely thin portless wireless machine.

i mean that is the ipad pro with a keyboard. (not perfect comparison i guess but is closer to that ideal)

The mbp is supposed to be for professionals and that comes with a need for flexibility and functionality. the quest for thinness was misguided in my opinion.

slmjkdbtl• 6 years ago

What I don't understand is how a not user-centered idealist designer can reach the top in Apple, my thought has been Apple is already big enough to care more about innovation and experiment instead of current user need, or it's just their motto to influence users instead of listen to them.

ksec• 6 years ago

It wasn't wrong for the MacBook though. The use of OLED and other modern techniques could have made MacBook even thinner and lighter. And in that extreme, having only one port, butterfly keyboard, and enlarged TrackPad were Trade offs that was understandable.

The problem is they then bring that mentality over to MacBook Air and to the Pro.

TrackPad causes false positives [1], why were they using butterfly keyboard just to get 0.6mm thinner? It was basically all the wrong trade offs.

Oh and the cable were too cramped they failed after closing and opening every day for a year? [2] Which was clearly a design flaws. Not only did they not fix it for free and at try to use the opportunity as good gesture, they actively push their customer for a $700 fix in order to push for services revenue increase. And the problem has been known since 2017. Those report by mainstream media only came in 2019.

And many other things, Post 2016 MacBook Pro was so bad at one point in time 2015 MacBook Pro's 2nd hand price was higher than 2016-2018 MacBook Pro.

[1] https://mjtsai.com/blog/2020/06/10/upgrading-to-a-16-inch-ma...

[2] https://www.theverge.com/circuitbreaker/2019/1/22/18193120/a...

behnamoh11• 6 years ago

Agreed. I wouldn’t touch any post-2015 MBP, but I wish I had bought one with dedicated graphics card. With each new version of macOS, things have gotten so much slower and laggy, even though I have disabled almost every unnecessary process and app in the OS.

The other day, I was working with a 2011 MBP with graphics crad and Chrome was much faster in that compared to my 2015 MBP. I think the graphics card does improve web surfing quite a bit.

alisonkisk2• 6 years ago

The dedicated graphics cards have a terrible feisgn flaw that burns 10-20W at idle when an external monitor is plugged in. This is a problem daily, while a non-dGPU laptop handles external monitor just fine.

gxnxcxcx• 6 years ago

The 2015 MBP is also the last one that still has built-in optical audio output, via mini-TOSLINK.

alisonkisk2• 6 years ago

An HDMI cable is an accessory.

CompactFlash card doesn't fit in an SD port.

DWakefield• 6 years ago

Any projector setup worth having would have an HDMI cable ready for you.

A 5.25" floppy diskette won't fit an a CompactFlash slot.

What's your point? I can come up with silly excuses too.

yarcob5• 6 years ago

Almost every place that has a projector also has an HDMI cable installed.

I haven't used a CF card in the last 10 years or so, but SD cards show up frequently. (Cameras, Rasberry Pi, Prusa 3D printers). For the Raspberry Pi I needed to use an adaptor because it uses smaller cards, but still better than no card reader at all.

But of course that's just my experience. If you use CF a lot, an SD slot won't help.

chandra381• 6 years ago

Oh absolutely. As a product designer, I was worried that it may be rendered obsolete, but the industry standard for design tools have moved into cloud-based browser solutions, so it will still be useful forever

chaostheory• 6 years ago

I want my glowing Apple logo back. The only thing good about the Touch Bar is fingerprint ID, but I can do without it

egypturnash2• 6 years ago

I never needed an SD card until suddenly I needed one. And then there I was with one permanantly lodged in my old Air's SD port, with my music collection on it, because I needed more room on the HD.

I have been enjoying being able to dock my current Pro to the desk setup with one cable that carries power/video/audio/USB but I keep on eyeing my slowly-filling hard drive and worrying about what I'll do when I need more space. I hate carrying external drives around.

A "magsafe USBc" connector would be super awesome, IMHO.

evan_• 6 years ago

There are a bunch of magnetic usb c adapters on Amazon for not very much money, I can’t speak to quality

rootusrootus• 6 years ago

Unrealistic though it may be, I'd rather they just stuffed a half dozen USB-C connectors on either side instead, and the world could stop making custom connectors for every different device.

harel3• 6 years ago

Apple hardware is really top notch. I am a Linux person but if I squint hard enough I can use the Mac OS (with some swearing weaved in). But I cannot use that terrible keyboard. Why do I need key combos for page up/down? Why are they useless buttons like that top squiggle on the top left but no page up/down buttons (there is space for them). Why some things are Cmd+ and some are Ctrl+? Why no key travel?

unethical_ban• 6 years ago

I enjoy typing on the macbook more than my Lenovo now. I've just gotten used to it, I suppose.

The key combos take some learning - protip: Few things are "ctrl+" unless it is Firefox or terminal, in my experience.

I do agree in missing the nav buttons.

helmholtz• 6 years ago

I have the newest XPS. It's a 15" laptop, it's huge. And yet, they've gone and put Home and End under F11 and F12. Meanwhile, Printscreen is under F10, which no one needs, and NOTHING is under F9. Also, F5 is covered with the brightness key! I can either refresh or have brightness, while F9, which is used nowhere, is blank.

There used to be such a nice last column along the rightmost edge of the keyboard with Home, Page Up, Page Down and End. Bring them back! It's stupid design to have.

The other thing, which I take is the same for the macbook, is that the trackpad is so huge that the edge of the keyboard digs into the forearms, causing pain for any reasonable length of use.

harel3• 6 years ago

I've been using Thinkpads for a long time, currently on my second X1. That keyboard is bliss compared to the mac. And I have page up, down, home, end... I feel spoiled for navigation (not to mention actual Function keys).

shrimpx4• 6 years ago

Btw that squiggle button — I assume you mean ~ — is completely instrumental to programming and using a shell. It’s also the switcher key between windows of the same app (cmd-~ as opposed to cmd-tab).

harel3• 6 years ago

No I don't mean the Tilda. That is my home man... I'm talking about the symbol I cannot name. Something like § and ±.

anonymousab• 6 years ago

I would like to pay more for a usb-c magsafe connector. Even 5x the cost of the current cheap cables would be worth it if it 1) actually worked 2) was standards compliant in all the ways that mattered. USB-C is a dice roll right now and the magnetic ones even moreso.

dang• 6 years ago

Related from 2 days ago: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25788129

empressplay• 6 years ago

Apple should bring back the 2015 MBP but with Apple Silicon and a USB-C port and call it the MBP Classic!

bch• 6 years ago

MBP SE

behnamoh11• 6 years ago

For $399 I would buy it!

Synaesthesia2• 6 years ago

MBP SE/30

aledalgrande2• 6 years ago

Very excited. I got an Intel MBP in 2020, but these models have enough that I am willing to switch. The question is who will buy my maxed out Intel laptop when the M1 is faster and costs less? XD

Also wondering if this new version will have M1X or M2, just a M1 that supports more RAM or an M2 with updated architecture?

qwerty4561274• 6 years ago

So cool. I probably am going to buy a MacBook if they bring everything back. Definitely buying something else if they don't. MacBooks look interesting but I'd rather buy something with an SD slot, physical F-keys, analog audio jack and at least 1 classic USB port to accompany Thunderbolt 4 Type-C ports.

virtue32• 6 years ago

I dont think there's a particular reason to have USB-A when you can just use a usb-c-to-a adapter. Sure, you have to carry a dongle around but USB-C is just so much better in all aspects ( reliability, usage, speed, unidirectional). Plus it would keep the machine smaller (the physical height is an issue with the cases).

qwerty4561274• 6 years ago

I know USB-C is better, but I also know the overwhelming majority of thumb drives (as well as other peripherals) around are USB-A. Doesn't being free from having to carry an extra dongle around feel good?

I don't insist it (a USB-A port) should be there but I would be pleased to have one. Its lack would mean I would have to always carry a dongle with me. Why not build it in if you always carry it with you anyway?

Plus it would keep the machine smaller (the physical height is an issue with the cases).

Some extra millimetres are exactly the thing I absolutely couldn't care less about. Completely irrelevant. Definitely not willing to sacrifice, let alone pay anything for this.

jxdxbx• 6 years ago

The only ports I want to see on a modern laptop is just a bunch of fully capable USB C ports. An SD card slot would be fine, and if there's something like MagSafe, I'd want USB C charging to still be possible so I can just travel with a single kind of charger and cable.

Lots of random USB-charging gadgets have switched to USB C. I like the idea of making USB A, one of the worst port designs of all time, die a slow painful death. I am very happy with my thumb drive-shaped portable card read that has USB C on one side and A on the other.

mixmastamyk3• 6 years ago

Let me introduce you to the db25 parallel port. How about the PS/2, which took about thirty seconds to align correctly.

mixmastamyk3• 6 years ago

Typing on our 2013 Mac Pro is downright luxurious and I wouldn’t trade it for any super thin anything. Would also pay thousands for an M2 motherboard upgrade. :D

faichai• 6 years ago

Was thinking the same thing, given thermal envelope improvements made possible by M1/M1X/M2 would be so cool to be able to upgrade my perfectly viable MacBook Pro 2015 with a new logic board. Upgrade cycles are so wasteful.

beyondcompute2• 6 years ago

…universally hated butterfly keyboards.

Not true. I would choose butterfly over a wobbly one (e.g. 2019 Macbook Pro).

Nobody wants a dongle.

Not true. I do agree that an SD card slot is convenient to have. But I have no significant problems using an adaptor. USB-A feels like a thing from the past to me. So I am not sure I would want it on the laptop.

The HDMI is the only thing I would not mind to retain (because of overscan issues, etc.)

gumby• 6 years ago

Author seems to hang a lot of faith on rumor. Maybe some of those rumored things will happen, but it's pretty unlikely that all of them will happen. (I'd be OK if the touchbar vanished though!)

Apple just announced a magnetic feature for their phones called "MagSafe". What's the chance that the revived MacBook feature called "MagSafe" won't be something phone related? A charging region on the notebook seems hard to believe but stranger things have shipped.

The author is also quite dismissive of the 12" MacBook which for me was a breakthrough product. I traveled around the world with one in my bag, wrote a ton of code, and often had to check to see if it was in my bag, it was so light. I'd still be using it except it turned out one day not to be rainstorm-proof :-(.

As for the SD slot: I asked Jobs about this in the early 2000s (this was around when PCMCIA was phasing out) and he was dismissive for the same reason: "Oh, you have an SD card? Do you also use CF? And Memory Stick?" This was painful because indeed, I used all three.

The fact is the TB3 (USB4) ports are powerful enough that they can connect to almost anything a user has. I know everybody's milage varies, but for me that's more powerful than a dedicated port I only use occasionally (as FW400 was for me) or never (FW800 in my experience).

Apple's MacBook revival plan: Bring back old features

Related Stories