Google Pixel 2 and 2 XL announced

https://www.theverge.com/circuitbreaker/2017/10/4/16408962/new-google-pixel-2-phone-announced-price-release-date-features

by plessthanpt05 • 9 years ago

346 597 9 years ago

theverge.com

earlybike2• 9 years ago

Guess it’s for many a minor thing but why can’t the phone just be symmetric (top and bottom bezel have the same height)?

pinouchon• 9 years ago

The Xiaomi mi mix did exactly that.

mattnewton9• 9 years ago

The top of the phone’s bezel contains a camera, and the bottom doesn’t. Why do you want a larger chin with wasted space? The pixel 1’s chin always bothered me for that reason.

earlybike2• 9 years ago

Either you make a phone clearly asymmetric (eg new iPhone X) or clearly symmetric. The new Pixel tries to have a symmetric design but fails slighlty (top and bottom bezel have similar heights and form language but are still asymmetric).

oedenfield2• 9 years ago

I kind of like the chin on the Pixel 1 because I know I have another option to grab the phone without touching the touchscreen.

kllrnohj2• 9 years ago

They sure look symmetric in the pictures, though?

codq3• 9 years ago

As an audio engineer, the headphone jack removal trend is an absolute travesty in an industry that utilizes AUX IN audio capabilities night after night.

I'm often using iPods or other local-music devices to pump sound into concert venues between acts. Taking away 1/8" audio standards in favor of USB-C or Lightning non-standardized ports causes chaos when needing to fill in music in a pinch.

In my industry, I simply cannot live without a standard audio port, which absolutely no one was clamoring to discard.

If my 1st generation Pixel were to break today, I'd buy another 1st generation Pixel.

legohead• 9 years ago

I love my Pixel, but they just lost me as a customer for this reason. I'm not totally against removing the headphone jack, but it's not time yet -- the transition has been done poorly.

Washuu• 9 years ago

Yep. All that was needed to get me to switch from my current iPhone 6/iOS was a current Google branded Android phone with a headphone jack. Now there is no reason for me to switch if I am going to be stuck buying a bunch of adapters.

gambiting2• 9 years ago

Yep, after being really impressed with the Pixel I knew Pixel 2 was going to be my next phone. Not anymore. Lack of the headphone jack is an absolute no-go for me.

wpietri• 9 years ago

Same. I have a variety of different things that use the headphone jack. A good pair of headphones, a couple of pairs of sound-isolating earbuds, a couple of pairs of open-ear headphones for running and walking. Because those are cheap, I can always keep a set where I need them. If I lose them or give them away, NBD.

Taking away the headphone jack does not solve any problem I have. It would impose extra costs, both in conversion, and ongoing. And it gives me a worse experience overall.

robterrell• 9 years ago

Why is it not time yet? When I lost my Pixel on a trip, I switched to an iPhone 7 + airpods and it's been great. I don't want to go back to wired headphones. Apple certainly seems to have nailed it. I can't imagine Google + HTC can't too.

modzu4• 9 years ago

its always time to buy replacements for all those things in capitalism!

whipoodle• 9 years ago

Yes, I've hated this change ever since I got my last iPhone. It's a pain and doesn't actually improve anything. I bought a bunch of those little dongles because I always lose them.

zippergz• 9 years ago

I've also had some break. They are apparently pretty flimsy.

mcjiggerlog2• 9 years ago

I wonder how many customers they will lose because of this decision? What I don't actually understand is what exactly is gained by its removal? It doesn't seem to be a limiting factor in either thinness or waterproofing, which are the only two I can think of.

I know I for one will never buy a phone with no headphone jack.

jamesrcole14• 9 years ago

I think (good implementations of) wireless headphones are the way of the future.

What did they gain by removing floppy disk drives from laptops? Well, nothing per se, but it allowed them to make smaller laptops.

Removing the jack will allow them to make phones thinner - if not now, in future iterations.

And the thing with keeping features around is that it's not just a question of that one feature. It's cumulative over time. It's not just a question of removing the floppy drive, it's that AND the internal modem AND the CD drive, etc. The effects can add up.

nas• 9 years ago

Its a dealbreaker for me. Otherwise, I would have considered the phone. I use my headphone jack nearly every day. I have a nice pair of Shure earphones that I use. I have no desire to get some wireless earphones. The headphone jack is small, durable, and ubiquitous. Removing it is idiotic.

adewinter• 9 years ago

If you work in 'the industry', surely it would not be a big deal to carry around an adapter a long with the other standard tools of your trade? I imagine it'll be about as inconvenient as carrying around ear buds.

limeblack3• 9 years ago

Having used the adapters they often break very easily and look like a complete mess. I have been through several on my iPhone.

eropple4• 9 years ago

It is much more likely that I misplace an adapter or break the connector or break the port than it is that I have a problem with a built-in 3.5mm jack. And, similarly, this is why we still use 1/4" jacks and XLR for real audio gear. We could make all this stuff smaller, we could make all this stuff digital, but it'd be more stuff that breaks on us.

rburhum• 9 years ago

I lost my iOS headphones and the little white adapter so I can use the "old" plug. For the past two days I have been running in the gym without listening to absolutely nothing even though I have like 20 headphones in my closet. What a stupid idea.

binaryblitz• 9 years ago

You can't charge your phone and listen to music through the dongle. This is the deal breaker for me.

__sha3d22• 9 years ago

"I'm sure you can put up with this massive inconvenience for a job and workflow I have no understanding of or context for but sure do have an opinion on"

Found the SWE!

archagon2• 9 years ago

With the iPhone, some combos are no longer possible with any adaptor. For example, audio out and data in. Nobody makes an audio+data dongle, only audio+charge.

rmwaite3• 9 years ago

man. you're in the audio industry. most people are not. I'm talking the VAST majority of people. So they should cater to you? I think it is not unreasonable to expect the professional to have whatever equipment they need - there are aux adapters for USB C and lightning. They are small. They are inexpensive.

bpicolo• 9 years ago

Everybody with a pair of wired headphones would appreciate a standard jack, too.

btym3• 9 years ago

Hi, member of the vast majority of people here. I don't want to have to carry a dongle.

drenvuk• 9 years ago

This was an unnecessary change no matter how you slice it. Just look at the other options: bluetooth or an adapter. With bluetooth you have to pair it and remember to charge the headphones. With an adapter you have to remember to bring it everywhere if you want to listen to a podcast or music or audio book. They say they're making a simple device but they're making my life more complicated. This is one of the few times where I'll get upset over such a simple change, especially since I was planning to buy a Pixel 2 until they announced this.

I'm not an audio professional and I think there's far more like me that you can't ignore.

ropans8082• 9 years ago

What I really don't get is why we want to move the DAC into the headphone. It just makes sense to have a single DAC in the phone, that anything can plug into. Now every set of headphones needs its own DAC to convert that digital bluetooth/USB signal into something you can actually hear.

killbrad• 9 years ago

Nexus 5X owner. I won't buy one of these due to lack of aux output, and I'm not in "the industry".

pritambaral• 9 years ago

I'm not in the audio industry. I need the headphone jack.

NikolaeVarius2• 9 years ago

I'm not against removing the Aux port on principal or anything, but I just don't understand why we're going toward removing seemingly core hardware.

Even on desktops/laptops 3.5mm audio is still used. Why do we need dongles to use core features?

Especially since we're removing an "out" port, now we're reliant on a single port to manage all in and out. I don't want to carry dongles to be able to use my phone normally.

criddell9• 9 years ago

Desktops and laptops have different constraints than phones. Bluetooth uses less power (from the device), makes waterproofing easier, and frees up space for battery. I personally would prefer having a headphone jack on the phone (even though I've never used mine), but I understand why they did what they did.

rimliu2• 9 years ago

My audio jack is neither core nor I need a dongle after it's removal. On the go I've got BeatsX, at the desk, I use good headphones which are connected via USB.

grey-area• 9 years ago

It's not core hardware for the vast majority of people.

takeda2• 9 years ago

And it is silly, because it is copying Apple move, but at the same time a different kind of port (USB-C vs Lightning).

So now, instead of a solid standard that has been for decades there's an attempt to have 3 standards.

WTF

wnevets2• 9 years ago

If my 1st generation Pixel were to break today, I'd buy another 1st generation Pixel.

Yup, no way I'm buying new a car just to listen to music while driving.

ggreer• 9 years ago

Instead of buying a new car, you could just use the adaptor that comes with the phone.

NocturnalWaffle• 9 years ago

I actually bought a $25 bluetooth -> aux adapter that sits in my car like 2 years ago. I get in my car, plug in my phone to charge, bluetooth turns on and auto connects.

almonj• 9 years ago

Has anyone ever actually been bothered by having an audio jack? Having to plug in an adapter is not futuristic, its annoying.

irrational3• 9 years ago

Well, for some reason the ports on my phones would always kind of stop working at some point unless I held the headphone jack in at just the right angle. It wasn't the headphones because they would work fine on other devices.

KayL3• 9 years ago

I wonder if it's better water resistance after removing the jack, anyone knows that?

mozumder• 9 years ago

I just ended up buying a bunch of cheap Bluetooth audio adapters: https://www.amazon.com/Mpow-Bluetooth-Receiver-Streaming-Han...

About the same price as an overpriced cable from Best Buy.

itodd• 9 years ago

I am not an audio engineer but I own a pair of bluetooth headphones and 2 devices that I use them with and it's a nightmare as both devices fight over it. It seems to be the USB problem all over but an order of magnitude worse. I can't just flip the cable over, I need to disable bluetooth temporarily on the device that I don't want to pair.

rimliu2• 9 years ago

I am not an audio engineer but I own BeatsX and use them across four devices without even thinking about it.

Humphrey• 9 years ago

Yeah, I love the direction LG has taken here. Rather than removing the port, they have added a higher quality DAC to make the inbuilt 3.5mm port even better!

So, I use it all the 3.5mm jack even more now. Is the idea behind an adaptor so that the user can use an even higher quality DAC?

Grazester3• 9 years ago

Its DX0 score is 98

MBCook6• 9 years ago

Which is meaningless. They have declared themselves the standard but that number doesn’t actually measure anything.

I mean the fact they sell cameras alone means they’re not unbiased.

https://daringfireball.net/linked/2017/09/22/dxo-ratings-are...

Wait for real camera reviews.

endorphone8• 9 years ago

John Gruber's stance on DXO is utterly meaningless, and it's farcical that you seriously cite it.

Measuring the technical capabilities of an imaging device is patently obvious and justifiable. From dynamic range to optical and electronic resolution, noise at different light levels, etc. You can question their methodology, but saying that it "doesn't measure anything" is nonsense, and citing a guy who laughably claims that you can't measure the "art" is uproarious.

Gruber has less than zero legitimacy in this discussion, and his sole motivating intention is defend Apple in all facets.

Grazester3• 9 years ago

It might be meaningless but given the Pixel/Google's recent push with image based ai I would not be dismissive of the phone's camera prowess

jimmies4• 9 years ago

I own a Pixel but this DxO stuff is really dodgy.

In the portrait pic of the girl, the difference between the Pixel 2 [1] and the iPhone 8 [2] is night and day, with the Pixel 2 looking like shit. She so pale, and the fake bokeh looks like a 5 year old smearing all over, it's simply not pleasant to look at.

And the whole push on adding the fake bokeh """scores""" to justify changing the scores so every fucking newly released device gets the highest score is stupid. Thanks for scoring the bokeh, if I had really wanted bokeh, I would have pulled out my bulky mirrorless camera.

I bet when a new phone comes out and they pay the DxO guy enough, they will add a dog nose filter score to make the new camera score the highest.

1: A https://cdn.dxomark.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/10/ref1_Boke...

B https://cdn.dxomark.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/10/ref2_Lowl...

2: A https://cdn.dxomark.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/10/ref1_Boke...

B https://cdn.dxomark.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/10/ref2_Lowl...

deanCommie• 9 years ago

Uhhhhhhhhhhh are you serious? The iPhone 8 results look SO much better...

monort• 9 years ago

It's post-processing, not the quality of the sensor, photo from iPhone have warmer color balance.

If you compare the right eyebrow, you will see that [1] have more details, than [2]

endorphone8• 9 years ago

Weird that you spend virtually the entirety of your post comparing the "bokeh" score when that is one area where the pixel 2 scores significantly worse than the iPhone 8.

Another one of your posts, talking about the white temperature, etc, is just surreal, and I dare you say that you are utterly clueless on this subject.

Lon7• 9 years ago

I really really hope they have fixed their supply issues this time around. I live in the 4th largest city in North America and I was unable to get a Pixel within a reasonable amount of time.

TaylorAlexander• 9 years ago

Same. I waited for weeks for the Pixel to be in stock last year. I finally bought an iPhone 7 Plus after being all android since the T-Mobile G1. I love it, and it shipped in like 24 hours! I was blown away that google couldn’t provide a phone to those that wanted it. (Note: I wanted to max out storage and I wanted the XL. There was stock on models with the least storage.)

I really hope they can keep these in stock.

Kevin_S• 9 years ago

Seems pretty nice.

I may consider the Pixel 2 XL over the IPhone X in a few months, but will definitely need to see some reviews of both first.

The removal of the headphone jack is devastating. I listen to music nearly every waking moment, so I am unsure about moving to Bluetooth whenever I use headphones.

threeseed3• 9 years ago

It comes with a 3.5mm dongle in the box.

Just do what everyone else does and leave it attached to your headphones.

WillPostForFood4• 9 years ago

How do you leave it attached when you plug it into your laptop and how do you listen while you charge? Great that it works for you, but having another dongle that you can lose, and have to attach and remove throughout the day is a real pain for others.

post_break• 9 years ago

It looks great, I hope Google can keep up the shipments. I really like the white and black XL, and the orange button really reminds me of Dieter Rams calculator from Braun.

limeblack3• 9 years ago

Does anyone know how consistent the squeeze feature is on phones that have already implemented such?

oedenfield2• 9 years ago

At least with latest Android OS you can replace the Assistant with other options/apps.

mastax2• 9 years ago

An LG G6 for $350 more†.

+ Software updates

+ Camera software (probably)

+ Squeezing

- Dual camera

Did I miss anything?

†Yes it's unfair to compare speculated launch price to current store price but that's the decision I'm making right now.

kllrnohj2• 9 years ago

Snapdragon 835 instead of 821, 64GB base instead of 32GB, OLED w/ always-on display instead of IPS

mastax2• 9 years ago

Good points. I had assumed base storage would be 32GB for all time, that recent phones would use the same processor, and that LGs OLED investments had trickled down to their own devices. Times, they are a changing.

bitmapbrother• 9 years ago

Did I miss anything?

3 years of OS and Security updates. The LG will be lucky to get 1.

Unlimited full resolution photo and movie backups.

seltzered_• 9 years ago

Motion photos - if I'm understanding correctly this is basically "motion stills"[1] integrated into the main camera app. It takes three seconds of video, but no photo with it like in live photos.

[1] https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.google.and...

Akujin7• 9 years ago

I currently have a Nexus 6P. It was the flagship before the Pixel series. I use Bluetooth headphones daily on my commute using the Philly subway system (SEPTA). In center city and around suburban station I experience sound cutting in and out all the time on two different wireless bluetooth headphones. It seems to work just fine in my apartment when I don't need it but is never reliable when there's a ton of other signals around.

I can't stand the current state of the industry. New phones cost more but offer little in terms of value. They also look like trash. Who actually thought it was a good idea to make a flag ship phone have a two tone plastic case?

I'll be sticking to my aluminum cased 6P for a while. I'm also likely to get it again when this one finally dies. There's absolutely nothing that makes me want a Samsung or a Google branded Android phone right now.

thanksgiving• 9 years ago

What headphones do you have? I've found that your experience varies wildly depending on your headset. Can you try a different set of Bluetooth headphones and report back?

Akujin7• 9 years ago

One of each of these:

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B06Y2YYS2L/ref=oh_aui_deta... https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00AWIPITS/ref=oh_aui_deta...

They work just fine at the gym, at home, and at work but when in a crowded public space the cutting in/out is consistent.

endorphone8• 9 years ago

I had every Nexus through to the 6P, and then moved to a Galaxy S8. With the Pixel Google has been overcome with profound me-tooism trying to ape every choice of Apple. It's humorous that the new iPhone offers wireless charging.

Coincidentally I just caught their cringe-inducing intro of the new Google Clips that captures live photos. Groan.

Akujin7• 9 years ago

I can't bring myself to buy a Samsung device. The bloatware is cringy as fuck. Maaaybe if it was unlocked right away and someone on XDA put together a Google only rom but short of that I'll never willingly buy a Samsung device.

AcerbicZero2• 9 years ago

I used the 6P for a fair amount of time, but I think the Nexus 5 was still the high water mark for Nexus phones. Cheap, great hardware, durable, and perfectly sized.

That said, I would have kept my 6P if I had known how disappointing the Pixel 1 was going to be. Double the price without any useful changes just feels like a rip off. No chance I'm going to throw more money at Google for another mediocre product.

Akujin7• 9 years ago

This. So much this. I had the Nexus 5 as well.

The 6P offers me:

- Aluminum case.

- 1080p screen

- 4K video recording

- Slow-motion video recording @ 1080p 240fps

- 12.3MP single shot

- A good enough CPU for lag free web browsing, spotify, snapchat, instagram, etc.

Why the fuck would I pay $700+ for a new phone for marginal improvements???

vthallam• 9 years ago

Looks great for $849. The camera is amazing with a 98 Dxo score. Also, the free unlimited Photo and Video storage is a great deal.

Only conern is the inventory, they make 100 pieces and do marketing for a million, I don't understand the logic, smh.

deep_concern4• 9 years ago

The only reason to remove the headphone jack is to sell more dongles and wireless headphones. That's it.

Consumers are not asking for it for the aesthetics. It doesn't make the phone much thinner. It doesn't make the phone easier to manufacture.

stephengillie3• 9 years ago

After finding cheap Bluetooth headsets on Amazon last about as long as a pair of earbuds, and have no cord, I don't see a problem.

I'm very rough on physical devices, and will go through 4-6 pair of earbuds a year. Because these do not physically connect to the device, they take an order of magnitude less wear, and thus last longer.

limeblack3• 9 years ago

I have the same problem of "going through earbuds." I'm not an engineer but I believe it has has to do with feedback when unplugging and plugging in the headphones. I have both a Nexus and an iPhone and have noticed that the new lightning headphones last longer then the same Apple branded earbuds.

monocasa• 9 years ago

The Bluetooth Advanced Audio Distribution Profile doesn't have a standard for loseless audio, which means that you end up crappilly re-encoding the audio to send it to the headphones. The reference codec (SBC) is particularly crappy. Shipping MP3 or AAC over Bluetooth is not mandatory and may or may not work depending on the sender and receiver.

mavrc• 9 years ago

Ok, fine.

The oldest pair of headphones that I own that work is older than my usage of the Internet. The oldest pair of headphones I own that I still use regularly I bought for college - and that was a long time ago.

Assuming that everyone treats their equipment as though it's disposable is frustrating to me. Some of us use our gear for a very long time, and in the case of something as mundane as a 3.5" jack, expect to be able to.

sf_rob• 9 years ago

I've never had a pair of Bluetooth headsets that haven't had connection issues with my Pixel. This is especially true of the cheap Sony pair I tried, but also true of the nicer Macaws and Here Ones. Even my car's head unit has a new bug with Oreo where it connects/"plays" but is muted until I reconnect.

theseatoms2• 9 years ago

What about water-proofing? That's the best reason I've heard.

mattnewton9• 9 years ago

What about it? Samsung solved it.

deep_concern4• 9 years ago

The LG V30 and Galaxy S8 have a headphone jack AND have IP68 waterproofing, versus the Pixel 2's (and iPhone 7/8) IP67.

notatoad• 9 years ago

$649/$849

it looks like a nice phone, but i have a hard time understanding how it's 5-7x better than my xiaomi.

addicted• 9 years ago

Well, for a device that is basically the primary device for the vast majority of people to conduct their lives, that are expected to have useful lives of about 2 years, i.e. ~750 days, $400-$500 more may absolutely be worth even a slight improvement, as long as you can afford it.

com2kid3• 9 years ago

$400-$500 more may absolutely be worth even a slight improvement, as long as you can afford it.

The problem is, the Nexus series showed us that Google can release a high quality phone at 1/2 the price of the rest of the market, and keep it updated and running fast for years.

There is obviously more money in selling phones at market rate.

stephengillie3• 9 years ago

I paid $200 for my Nexus 5x. Not looking forward to paying 2.5x to retain the same phone-utility in the future.

ssijak• 9 years ago

My Nexus 5x runs like crap, very slow and closes apps when I do 2-3 things at a time (music, gym app, browser for example). I tried everything, reinstalled 7.X system, installed 8.0 on launch, removed most of the apps... Btw, removing facebook and messenger apps helped very much. Now I use messenger lite and don`t use facebook on the phone (thanks, Google :) ). Was waiting for new phone releases, but maybe for the first time I will try an iPhone, I just hope iOS is not that limited and bad any more.

warrenmiller• 9 years ago

No wireless charging?

stephengillie3• 9 years ago

Wireless charging can't provide enough amps to actually charge newer Google devices. Nexus phones had them through the 5/7, but lost them with the 5x/6p.

My Nexus 5 wall charger can't even push enough amps to charge my Nexus 5x.

Edit: Does the new iPhone use the same wireless chargers as older phones? Can you use it with those Ikea lamps with wireless charging? Or does it use a different/less lossy transmission method?

ocdtrekkie• 9 years ago

The new iPhones would like to file a disagreement with you.

Sure, it's slower than a quick charger, but in a lot of cases you don't need a quick charge.

irrational3• 9 years ago

Wait, then how is Apple able to use wireless charging for the new iPhone 8s and X?

wvenable2• 9 years ago

I wirelessly fast-charge my Samsung S7; I'm not sure where you got the idea that it doesn't work.

AcerbicZero2• 9 years ago

I picked up the Pixel on release, but I've been disappointed by the quality of the product overall. The screen scratches easily , battery life is mediocre, and the changes to android recently have not been positive. I've had the device replaced once by Google, which was a painless process, but the new one scratches just as easily as the old, and loves to reboot on occasion.

Interestly enough, I started a new job right around the time I got my Pixel, and work provided me a brand new iPhone 7, so I've been able to compare them side by side for a year now, in nearly identical usage. I've been on the android bandwagon for a long time now, but the iPhone 7 is hands down the better hardware. The Pixel has been replaced once ~6 months ago, and spent most of its life in a soft shell case, but it has not handled general wear and tear well. The iPhone 7 has been blatantly abused (work phone, don't care) but still looks brand new. iOS leaves a lot to be desired, but with all of android's missteps the difference isn't as drastic as it used to be.

gxs• 9 years ago

I recently switched from Android phones to an iPhone in July of this year.

This after having used android since the G1 (first android phone).

I think your sentiments are the most fair and realistic I've come across in a while (FYI for others reading).

The gap isn't as big as it used to be software wise, but the hardware is still better by a big margin. iOS has also been a little more stable, less app crashes, random reboots, etc.

The only thing I'd add is that the apple stores have been surprisingly helpful and have added more to the experience than I would have thought. Go in, try everything, get brought up to speed real quick by friendly staff, and they seem to always be conveniently located (for me at least).

All in all the experience has been better and I haven't missed Android's famous flexibility.

lopespm• 9 years ago

Honest question: for those of you who own a mobile device without a headphone jack, do you find it to be an encuberment?

Personally I still find it a bit hostile to not have the jack available, since often times I find myself charging the phone and using the headphones (when watching videos for example), so having an adapter dongle for such a frequent task seems counterintuitive to me. I believe that if a device is correctly designed, then it should serve most of its usecases without the aid of an extra adapter. These should be reserved for edge cases.

Moreover, I use headphones for a good part on my day and I am not sold on the idea of having a wireless device next to my brain for such an extended amount of time. Sure, we are already exposed to a good number of electromagnetic radiations, but this one I might want to pass. Not to mention the need to charge yet another device.

selectout• 9 years ago

(personal antidote) I had 3 pairs of headphones I primarily used pre-removal of the headphone jack. 2 bluetooth (working out and @work) and the third was a nice pair for at home listening. I have no problems with a dongle always connected to my nice pair, and have actually found myself using bluetooth more often regardless of Aux port availability.

bhups• 9 years ago

I have the iPhone 7. I've been using Bluetooth headphones since about 2014 (started with the JayBirds, but use the AirPods now). I use my headphones pretty much all day.

Not once have I noticed the absence of the headphone jack, nor have I felt the need for it.

DopamineHigh• 9 years ago

On a iPhone 7+. nope, AirPods are so amazing and convenient I cannot go back to a wired set.

birdmanjeremy• 9 years ago

Yes. It sucks.

deep_concern4• 9 years ago

My friend with an iPhone was unable to play his music through the speakers in my car because he forgot his adapter. We had to use a cup to amplify the speakers. Even if he had remembered his dongle, if he'd needed to charge his phone it'd need to be a splitter dongle. We'd had no problems playing music in the car for the past decade.

marpstar• 9 years ago

Get a bluetooth adapter for the car. Save yourself from ever having to plug it in (or even pull it out of your pocket) unless you need to charge it. I did this pre-donglegate and plugging my phone in has only been an inconvenience ever since.

noncoml3• 9 years ago

iPhone 7+. It is annoying as I cannot plug my phone’s headphones to my laptop.

Was “forced” to switch to Bluetooth.

KayL3• 9 years ago

I owned iPhone 8+ for a week and didn't notice any differences than iPhone 6 with jack for the sound quality.

Only one bad thing, you can't be charging while listening to music.

tbassetto• 9 years ago

I am considering switching from an iPhone 6 to an 8 Plus. Do you regret going for a bigger iPhone or not? I tried the 8 Plus in a store and it was much faster! But also much heavier, that's why I haven't made the jump yet.

threeseed3• 9 years ago

Only one bad thing, you can't be charging while listening to music.

There are cheap dongles available which allow you to do this.

omegaworks• 9 years ago

for those of you who own a mobile device without a headphone jack, do you find it to be an encuberment?

Yes. Every single day. I bought an iPhone 7 when my 6 got stolen from me. Huge mistake. Have tried several bluetooth headsets, have never been satisfied with their quality (spotty connectivity just from ears to the pocket). I haven't tried the AirPods yet, but I'm not willing to drop $159 on yet another bluetooth product (and they look ridiculous).

The lightning dongle just introduces a new mechanical point of failure, and it's never there when you need it.

I won't be purchasing a product without a headphone jack again.

JadeNB• 9 years ago

If you're OK with a headset as opposed to earbuds, I swear by SB220's (https://www.amazon.com/SB220-Bluetooth-Headphone-Streaming-H...). They're cheap and generic, but I like them for exactly that reason; use them as long as they last, sweat into them when I exercise, and keep a few extra pairs around for when one fails (usually they last about 6 months with regular, sweaty exercise).

tjoff• 9 years ago

Miss it every day. The whole concept is beyond absurd.

matwood3• 9 years ago

for those of you who own a mobile device without a headphone jack, do you find it to be an encuberment?

Never notice it. I have 2 adapters, 1 in my car and 1 in my bag. I can't remember the last time I needed the one from my bag. The 1 in the car stays permanently attached to the car headphone jack.

Any portable headphones I use are bluetooth and were bluetooth before the iPhone removed the jack.

At home, I stream over BT/wifi to speakers/devices.

Sitting at my computer I stream music from my computer. If I were to stream to wired headphones from my phone all the time I would just buy another $7 adapter and leave it attached to the headphones.

modzu4• 9 years ago

you guys should try switching to a camera for your photography instead of a cellphone, then we can remove the camera from the phone too

the idea that because bluetooth headphones exist means the jack shouldnt exist is not fair -- there are plenty of reasons the jack is plenty useful to plenty enough people

the only excuse I can see to remove the jack is that when you sell a billion devices and the little jack costs a buck a device you just made yourself a billion dollars for nothing. oh and now you can sell dongles that cost $1 a pop to make for $10 a pop and you make yourself 10 billion

hota_mazi3• 9 years ago

Exactly. I routinely switch my headset from my laptop to my phone and vice versa. Doing this with a jack is trivial. Doing this with a BlueTooth headset is very annoying and requires additional steps on both devices.

dibujante• 9 years ago

I think there's value in having a camera there, even if it's shitty. It means you are always carrying around a device capable of image/video recording, which is tremendously useful.

maltalex3• 9 years ago

when you sell a billion devices and the little jack costs a buck a device you just made yourself a billion dollars for nothing

You're looking at it the wrong way. It's not the money you save; it's the money you make by selling adapters.

Also, there might be legitimate engineering reasons for getting rid of the 3.5mm jack. It is rather large by modern standards, maybe there are also water-proofing concerns. It's a trade-off I wouldn't make, but I'm neither Apple nor Google.

mattnewton9• 9 years ago

Not even dongles, you drive X% increase in Bluetooth headphone sales of your Beats line and $150 AirPods.

jsz03• 9 years ago

That's a bad analogy or whatever it is. If you remove the camera from the phone you cannot take photos. If you remove the 3.5mm jack you can still listen to audio and even still plug in wired headphones with an adapter.

MBCook6• 9 years ago

Not a problem at all.

In the car the phone is plugged in with a wire anyway, that wire covers power and audio. Or I could use BT.

I’ve switched to BT headphones at work and they’re much more convenient than wired headphones. Before I bought hen I just had a single permenantly on the cord anyway.

When I travel I have my BT phones and the rest already have dongles in them. No need to remember anything.

Something else needed? $10 at many stores and I can get another dongle but I haven’t run into that.

It’s been a non-issue.

brandonmenc• 9 years ago

It's not a problem at all.

I have a lot of nice-ish headphones and in ear monitors, and I thought it be more of an inconvenience, but it's not. The adapter works fine.

And now that wireless audio sounds good, I find that I use AirPods or Powerbeats almost exclusively while walking around. Turns out the only time I ever plug my nice headphones into the phone is when I'm sitting for long stretches.

dilap2• 9 years ago

it’s annoying! i’m constantly misplacing or forgetting adapters and not able to listen to music as a result. it’s not just headphones; it’s anytime you want to plug an aux cable in.

recently spent a week camping w/ friends unable to listen to any of my music because i had misplaced the stupid adapter...

martin19753• 9 years ago

When they make bluetooth earbuds that have same quality sound as Etymotic ER4's, I'll switch then... the likelihood of that happening is virtually nil.

Johnny5552• 9 years ago

If you're looking for the best quality, aren't you better off using a USB DAC than using even the wired headphone jack with the phone's DAC that was chosen more for its size and power usage than quality?

reeddavid2• 9 years ago

Yep, I'm with you. I use Shure SE846 earbuds, and even though the dongle supposedly uses a DAC chip identical to the DAC in the iPhone 6, the audio is noticeably flatter and less enjoyable. Since the chip is the same, I figure it must be either the amplifier (haven't read whether that's the same) or the bit of super thin cable between the chip and the headphone port. It was a downgrade from the iPhone 6.

_nothing• 9 years ago

I have a good number of bluetooth headphones so I never have to bother with wires if I don't want to, and yet I would still rather use wired headphones if I could.

I always tend to get weird Bluetooth problems. I'll turn on a pair of headphones and they will connect to both my laptop and my phone, with the signal from both being choppy. Or I'll turn on my headphones and connect them to my phone, but it will say something like "Connected (no sound)" and it won't play music through the headphones even though they're connected, until I either re-pair or keep pressing the button until it hopefully connects.

None of these are things I'd have to worry about with a headphone jack.

e12e• 9 years ago

I do have a head phone jack on everything (laptop, phone, desktop) - but I also have a SoundBlaster E3 usb soundcard/Bluetooth soundcard/mic:

https://us.creative.com/p/sound-blaster/sound-blaster-e3

Really happy with it. Never tried it with Apple hw, but guessing it would work. Great as a "wireless headphone enabler" while watching films late, at a screen a little further away than ~1m. Or even for gaming along with a wireless controller etc.

It's not the best day in the world (and Bluetooth doesn't have completely lossless audio in any profile afaik). But it's better than any portable equipment I'm aware of - including the early Sony mp3 players that were steel boxes/melee weapons with proper line out...

rexf2• 9 years ago

Not having a headphone jack sucks. I use the iPhone 7 so I don't have an audio jack.

Instead of trying to remember to bring the lightning headphones or the lightning to audio adapter around, I've simply given up on using headphones. Which is terrible since I used to use my free Apple headphones a ton (on previous iPhones).

As much as people online rave about airpods, I don't need another $$ device in my life to charge and possibly misplace.

megy• 9 years ago

Which is terrible since I used to use my free Apple headphones a ton (on previous iPhones).

Um, what? You can still use your free Apple headphones. You still have to remember to bring your headphones, no matter which ones they are.

mattnewton9• 9 years ago

As an iPhone 7+ user, the dongle life sucks. Seriously considering “upgrading” to an SE, especially if they do a refresh, just for the jack.

rexf2• 9 years ago

It would be nice if Apple kept the audio jack on the plus iPhone models. There should be space for it. But that would ruin Apple’s narrative.

dabernathy896• 9 years ago

It annoys my wife. She can't use the earbuds that came with her phone to listen to anything on her iPad, b/c it only came with a dongle going the other direction (for connecting standard headphones to the iPhone). When we're in the car she can't charge & use the aux cable at the same time. Both of these could possibly be solved with 3rd party dongles, but it's silly to have to pay $20-30 extra for that.

pls2halp• 9 years ago

I know that the headphones which came in the box work through the lightning port on my iPad. I think firmware support was added to all devices in iOS 10, maybe check if she's updated.

snuxoll• 9 years ago

I prefer solving the charge+car audio issue with a Bluetooth receiver which can be found for $25 on Amazon, my wife loves being able to play music in the car without snaking an AUX cable from the dash to the center console.

puranjay• 9 years ago

I know they're a hassle to charge, but I bought bluetooth earphones for my morning run. Started using them on my morning commute in the subway.

Now I don't use wired headphones at all and the experience is just way, way better.

I still have my audiophile headphones (AudioTechnica M50x) but I only use them when I'm making music or seriously listening to music.

I've offlodaed all casual listening to the Bluetooth earphones. Couldn't be happier

qudat• 9 years ago

I have an iPhone 7 with Airpods and it is the best combo. It is seriously awesome and I don't miss a headphone jack at all. It has literally never been an issue, even before I got my airpods.

I use my iphone + airpods every single day. I have never had bluetooth headphones before so that might slant my judgement a little bit.

Having said that I don't listen to music in my car and don't have a car charger either. I think most people who have issues with the lack of a jack are people who need to charge + play music in their car.

This is coming from someone who also scoffed at how "courageous" apple was for removing the jack. I thought it was stupid, but I "bought in" and got the iphone 7 and couldn't be happier.

dynjo• 9 years ago

Same here, the genius of AirPods is the charger case, it literally feels like I never actually charge them, I can’t recall a single time when both headphones and charge case were both flat.

baddox• 9 years ago

Nope, but I already knew going in that I never charge and listen to headphones at the same time, and I only use the included headphones on my phone.

fish_fan• 9 years ago

Yea, it definitely continues to be an annoyance. I have some great bluetooth headphones, but if I forget them I can’t exactly pick up a cheap pair. The adapter works well but it’s easy to lose, especially if you want to use it in a car and also have to remember the lightning splitter so you can charge your phone at the same time.

That said, totally worth the improvements in water resistance. I use it in the shower all the time.

Mostly I just use headphones much less.

chisleu• 9 years ago

Every phone I've ever had has had a headphone jack and I haven't used it since Android Gingerbread.

jeffcore• 9 years ago

I don't, but then I rarely plugged in headphones before it was removed. The headphones that were included with my iPhone 7 are still in their packaging.

Most of the headphones I own are bluetooth. At home, I stream over BT or wifi and charge my BT headphones while my phone charges. While driving I also use BT, which is nice since I rarely have to pull my phone out and my jams are already playing as I get into the car.

on_and_off4• 9 years ago

My phone has an headphone jack but I don't use it more than twice a year.

I use bluetooth buds on my phones. tbh I am not entirely sold on having a wireless device so close to my brain either. It is way more convenient than having a cable though.

At the office, I just use full size headphones (the kind you can't run with) plugged into my laptop.

jsz03• 9 years ago

Nope. My iPhone 7 came with a pair of Lightning headphones which I leave in my backpack and an 3.5mm adapter which I leave plugged into my headphones at home. Basically if you don't use more than 2 pairs of headphones on a regular basis it's a non-issue. Worse case you might need to buy an additional ~ $10 adapter for a second set of third party headphones or for a spare.

Incidentally Apple's PR on dropping the headphone jack was terrible. They tried to play it up as almost a benefit when in reality it's a boring lateral move that is of little consequence for most people.

fnwx172• 9 years ago

Initially I thought that dropping the jack was a "meh" idea, myself using only bluetooth headphones for more than 2 years now.

But then every single time I commute or go to a park I see a bunch of people with their cable headphones and how inconvenient it is: the cables are just messy, they cling to stuff.

Wireless headphones make more sense in terms of how easy it is to use them. Although, agreed - the PR on dropping the headphone jack was pretty bad.

inglor• 9 years ago

I'm using an iPhone 7, it will be my last iPhone after 4 models. The lack of headphone jack sucks, the adapter breaks, none of the cheap adapters work - and the audio on good devices sucks.

The only real option is to carry a DAC around which is ridiculous.

reeddavid2• 9 years ago

Yes, it's a huge inconvenience. I got the iPhone 7 knowing it didn't have a headphone jack. What I didn't realize was how awful the adapter would be (I have two, both have problems). I barely use headphones anymore, because the adapter just doesn't work reliably. Audio sometimes won't play, so I have to unplug / re-plug many times. And when I put it in my pocket, the thin wire seems to lose continuity when it bends. The sound crackles or cuts out with any pressure on the adapter. It was a terrible solution to... I don't even know what problem it solved.

bdcravens5• 9 years ago

All of my audio is bluetooth (car, AirPods, Bose noise cancelling headphones, LG Tone headset). I don't have them on as much as I used to, as I've become a bit more aware of the risk of damaging my hearing as I get older.

pentae• 9 years ago

It's super annoying when you're at a friends place and want to play some music through their speaker system, in a hotel room traveling, or just when i'm using both my laptop and iphone with the same pair of headphones having to swap adapters. Bluetooth speakers NEVER pair reliably. It's utterly horrible and I will never forgive Apple for it.

archagon2• 9 years ago

"Hostile" is a good way to put it. I am infrequently, but still regularly, annoyed by the missing jack. It's especially problematic when I need to debug an audio app or play guitar through an Apogee JAM. (There is no existing dongle that gives you both aux and data, so I have to use the speaker.) Makes me feel like I have a toy phone.

efrafa• 9 years ago

I have iPhone 7 for about a year, and it was never issue for me. I dont even carry that dongle. (I usually charge my phone at work where I dont need to use it)

JosephLark2• 9 years ago

Edit up top: The identification is done on-device. The Verge article didn't mention this.

And this year’s Pixel will take advantage of the phone’s always-on microphones to listen for music (not just the phrase “OK Google”) and display what you’re listening to on the screen, even if it’s something on the radio.

This sounds creepy. So now when excessive microphone data is seen to be going out to the cloud, they can just say "Oh, the phone thought there was music playing and was trying to identify it. Simple misunderstanding, nothing nefarious!".

dmayle• 9 years ago

Except it doesn't send any data to the cloud. They mentioned that explicitly. There's an on-phone database of songs that it is matching against.

JosephLark2• 9 years ago

They mentioned that explicitly

Okay? The submitted article certainly didn't mention that.

The Anadtech live blog does indeed state "01:05PM EDT - On device machine learning. Local music identificat (sic)"

raverbashing2• 9 years ago

I wonder how much space this takes on the device. How many signatures does it keep and how often is this updated

Klathmon3• 9 years ago

Other articles did mention that this will be local.

I have a feeling they are using federated machine learning for this to have a lot of the processing done locally and not need to activate the radios for as much of the processing as possible. They have been making big strides in that area lately and this might be the start of some of the major applications of it (I think they are using it in their keyboard prediction as well from a bit ago)

user-on110• 9 years ago

so there's going to be a huge database of songs on my mobile!!! i don't think anybody asked for it... sounds like trickery... this is going to take up some storage space now...

anyone know how many gb or mb this occupies in my phone... can v jus clear this data...

cookiecaper2• 9 years ago

Lots of devices already do this. My Echo occasionally misinterprets its wakeword and broadcasts up little 4-second clips of whatever is going on at the time it decides to do that. If you're worried about so-called "accidental" identification that allows them to activate listeners and receive the sound data from the room, that's already a pervasive threat.

Reminder that US intel exploited a bug (or a "bug") in Samsung Smart TVs that allowed them to surreptitiously activate the built-in microphones and stream the room's sound on-demand, obviously with no notification to the user. [0]

That gets me curious, did anyone try running that malware and see which servers it transmitted up to? Would be interesting to go through logs and see, retroactively, who this was used on in the wild. Would be even _more_ interesting if it proxied through a tunnel at a cooperative BigCo...

[0] https://wikileaks.org/ciav7p1/cms/page_12353643.html

irrational3• 9 years ago

I'm very disappointed they didn't drop the price of the 1st generation Pixels more. There was a 1 day sale on the Pixels earlier this year (that included a free Google Home device) that was much lower than what they have dropped them to today. My wife's Nexus 5 recently died. I had hoped to get her the 1st generation Pixel to replace it, but I'll probably get her the iPhone SE instead.

grrrtttt• 9 years ago

Oh dear. And I'm already seeing stock issues also. Pre-orders for the 2 XL in B&W just went "out of stock".

Tossrock• 9 years ago

Is that a broken link in a major Google product release blog post? Gasp! Screenshot for posterity: https://i.imgur.com/r7TpRQY.png

gordon_freeman• 9 years ago

Thanks but no thanks. I love my Nexus 6P a lot (still)!

sudarshan_sar• 9 years ago

Same boat. It's still a fantastic phone and meets all the demands and then some! The the only reason to switch might be the battery life. Still not a serious enough issue to switch, yet.

user-on110• 9 years ago

u should b super lucky they are still alive, mine just crapped out and kept showing the image of the people who screwed it and then died.

syntaxing• 9 years ago

I really wish they would reintroduce the Nexus series. The money felt worth it for the phone. Not sure if I can say the same for the Pixel series.

iMark• 9 years ago

What’s in a name?

A rose by any other name would smell as sweet.

jm_l• 9 years ago

Pixel's goal is to be an iPhone competitor. This is reflected in its pricing and product design. Nexus was for Android enthusiasts who wanted the stock experience. I think in their own words it was "meant to showcase the best of Android."

sorenjan• 9 years ago

Plus Nexus was available to buy. I've had several Nexus phones, but Google doesn't want to sell Pixel phones in my country.

duxup2• 9 years ago

I wish Google would do a mid range Pixel, or call it something else if they want, just something like a follow up to the 5x.

humblebee2• 9 years ago

I think this is what the Moto X4 is.

https://www.blog.google/products/project-fi/project-fi-welco...

kuschku8• 9 years ago

The Moto X4 won’t get Android Preview Releases, and is therefore useless for developers.

I’m a student, but I also develop apps. Even with the emulator, there are still bugs you can only find on real devices.

So now every time a new Android version comes out, I’ll either end up with a month where my apps are broken and I’m slowly working on fixing them (so ~10% of the time the app is unusable), or I have to shell out north of $900 just to get the cheapest still supported Pixel in Germany.

eloisant• 9 years ago

Does it get updates as fast as a Nexus/Pixel?

piyush_soni5• 9 years ago

I think they're aiming at the 'Android One' devices to replace the Nexus ones. The Mi A1 might be your friend.

noncoml3• 9 years ago

Why would anyone pay money to buy a phone from an advertising company?

the_common_man• 9 years ago

Yeah, I feel Google should re-invent itself and make some bold decisions to move out of it's ad business. They seem very capable of making excellent products. Will their shareholders be up in arms if they got out slowly from this add business?

Google Apps, Android, Pixel etc are really excellent products.

SapphireSun• 9 years ago

Never gonna happen. Google can do the things it does because it holds monopoly pricing in internet advertising. The freedom from competition and massive capitalization is what allows it to invest in blue sky projects.

KZeillmann• 9 years ago

Why on earth would they want to get out of the ad business?

jordache• 9 years ago

how can an adjacent pixel be used to calculate depth map. Are they telling me the sensor and their algorithm is that sensitive to generate none binary depth info from adjacent pixels?

MattyRad2• 9 years ago

I bought a Pixel when it came out, switching from the Nexus 5 primarily because Project Fi was an easy, cheap way to get off my parent's cell-phone plan and gain some personal independence. It was about time for a new phone anyway.

I wish I had just stuck with the Nexus 5... it was a fantastic phone. Wireless charging (which I personally found to be the most useful feature), excellent dimensions, excellent price, and the notification light was bright. The case was made of some sort of rubberized plastic, so it could withstand a real beating.

Squeezable sides and marginally improved specs aren't enough for me to consider upgrading, and at this point, as an Android fan since the Nexus 4, I would strongly considering making the switch the iPhone.

chrisper2• 9 years ago

Are you planning to already switch phones again?

I have a pixel as well and feel like it will still last some time.

bmelton• 9 years ago

The Pixel is so solid, and still plenty fast enough for me that I honestly can't imagine upgrading until there's something I need that doesn't support it.

MattyRad2• 9 years ago

The Pixel is by no means a bad phone, it's just been an exercise in disappointment the whole way. So I'm not actively planning to switch phones, I'm just lamenting that I don't get the same utility out of the Pixel that I was getting out of my Nexus 5. Also being on Project Fi locks me into a certain set of phones, switching would be an expensive endeavor.

olavgg• 9 years ago

I have the Nexus 5, great phone! But it no longer gets updated. And with the Blueborne security issue this annoys the heck out of me. With iPhone I can at least expect 5 years lifetime with updates.

rottyguy• 9 years ago

I must have a lime since my nexus 5 randomly turns on the flashlight and goes into airplane mode sometimes. For the price, I'll bear with it but it's definitely not as polished (even the apps are UI-strange). Not sure I'd recommend it to anyone unless they are just looking to save money.

intrasight• 9 years ago

I still have a Nexus 5, and it's been solid for many years. It would be really painful to spend twice as much on a phone and get half or less the lifetime from it. So sad that there's not an equivalent phone available today!

on_and_off4• 9 years ago

Why do you need a new phone anyway ?

Even as an Android dev giving a very rough time to my phones, they can easily last 2 years nowadays.

If you don't care too much about fluidity or photography, 3 or 4 years don't seem too long either, as long as you replace the battery.

lkbm• 9 years ago

I switched from Nexus 5 to a Pixel XL and had a very different experience. It did seem slightly larger than optimal (thought I felt the same when switching from Nexus 4 to Nexus 5), and very slippery, but I went from having to charge multiple times a day to a battery that lasts all day. Wireless charging was nice--not having to charge is so much nicer. (It's gotten worse with Oreo, but I'm hoping it will improve with time.)

user-on110• 9 years ago

the rounded corners on the pixel 2 xl just looks ugly... dont u guys think...

Also the huge bezels in pixel 2...

seems like these announcements just boil down to nothing...

at least those headphones could have been individual device without a need for pixel or if it needs to be paired then at least it should have been around $50

it is basically just a total waste of time, it was fun to listen to those new music in the event though...

royal_ts2• 9 years ago

The € price is ridiculously higher than the $ price. The smaller pixel costs 799€ which includes 19% of taxes (in Germany), the 649$ does not contain taxes. Still that's a difference of 150€ on top of my hat. There's also a fee which manufactures have to pay (GEMA which collects money for artists and so on). Guess they also include that Google Home Mini in this price which is kinda dumb. Not going to buy with such a huge price bump

dustinmr• 9 years ago

If that includes 19% taxes, than its a €30 or 4% difference on the pretax pricing. Not very big really. Especially, if there's other fees they pay to sell the product in your territory.

Matthias2472• 9 years ago

How did you calculate that? Without taxes it’s 671€, which is 789$. So the difference is 190$

vetinari• 9 years ago

I don't know how you came to 30 EUR difference.

    649 USD = 552 EUR
    552 * 1.2 (20% VAT) = 662
    799 - 662 = 137

The difference is 137 EUR (161 USD). That's quite a coin.

Matthias2472• 9 years ago

It‘s worse than the iPhone (699$ vs 799€), but unfortunately it’s just the continuation of the trend. Over the last years electronics steadily got more expensive in Europe compared to US. Before that is was often 1$ == 1€, which was not that far off after taxes.

However another thing to consider in pricing ist that android phone prices will fall pretty quickly over the year anyway, up to about 50%. We’ll see how it will be for the Pixel2

royal_ts2• 9 years ago

The Pixels price at least in the Google store has been pretty steady afaik. A buddy of mine one thing to consider for this price bump is the CE certificate which companies have to get for their devices. Still weird that Samsung and other don't seem to have these problems.

remir• 9 years ago

Here in Canada, the Pixel 2 starts at 900$ and the 2 XL at 1 159,00$.

lepouet• 9 years ago

I'm french, i would like Google to take my money.

mullingitover6• 9 years ago

I witnessed my girlfriend's Nexus 6p support experience with Google and it was not pretty. I would never buy a Google phone after that. The phone, just barely out of warranty, goes into a bootloop and becomes a paperweight. Google helpfully shrugs the problem off on Huawei, and Huawei will of course not support the product since it's out of warranty. There is no repair option.

I tried Android early on, had similarly unacceptable support experiences, and whenever I'm tempted to dip my toes back in the water I'm reminded of how bad things are with cases like this. In the case of the Nexus 6p it's Google's flagship product and it's a worthless paperweight 13 months after purchase.

stu2010• 9 years ago

I had a Nexus 5X die within the warranty period, and had a similar experience. LG's support was utterly awful, it took them 3 weeks to replace the phone.

They originally told me I could get a replacement 5X, then they told me I could get a T-Mobile G5 and what they eventually sent me was an AT&T specific G5 that required digging into config menus before it would connect to T-mobile LTE.

kowdermeister• 9 years ago

Big company support have lots of moving parts. My girlfriend's Nexus 5x also died this week. Local LG branch (Budapest) replaced the motherboard within a day. She basically got a new phone for free.

notheguyouthink2• 9 years ago

I witnessed my girlfriend's Nexus 6p support experience with Google and it was not pretty. I would never buy a Google phone after that. The phone, just barely out of warranty, goes into a bootloop and becomes a paperweight. Google helpfully shrugs the problem off on Huawei, and Huawei will of course not support the product since it's out of warranty. There is no repair option.

Something similar happened to my wife with her Nexus5X. Google shipped an update that bricked a ton of 5X phones, and Google stopped responding to her Customer Service emails.

We've been Nexus (specifically pure Nexus) users since the first Google phone. I own a G1, still in my closet. I own all of them (well, at least one of each generation). I own a Pixel XL as well. I'm done with Google, for this, and other reasons.

atka• 9 years ago

The 6p was the end of Google phones for me. It was the first phone I hade to give up due to not working and no help from Google.

curun1r• 9 years ago

Another Nexus 5X user here and also dissatisfied. A while back, my phone stopped being able to answer calls. It rings, but no UI dialog appears on screen to let me answer. This is a known issue that I've seen on support forums, but nothing suggested there has fixed it. I've spoken with Fi support on multiple occasions and they've exhausted all options and now want me to wipe my phone hoping that will fix the problem.

I'm amazed at how poor the Android experience has been after years on iPhone. I'm still more amazed that Android is as popular as it is despite all this.

watbe• 9 years ago

On the contrary, because I bought the Nexus 6P from the Google Store, they replaced it with a Pixel XL for free. The Google experience is terrible through a third party, but their Google 'direct' experience is pretty darn fantastic.

mullingitover6• 9 years ago

I can't fathom why the place where the device was purchased would matter if it's a Google phone. Apple manages to support iPhones whether you purchase them from an Apple store or in a back alley for bitcoins.

j454• 9 years ago

A slightly goofy thing about the Google Store is you can't add the warranty after the initial warranty within the warranty period.

With Apple, it's no big deal to extend the warranty during the first year of the warranty.

phil213• 9 years ago

It's really hit or miss. I've had to escalate to get my son's Pixel replaced twice now.

The replacement they sent has the wide-spread microphone issue out of the box, and I just haven't had the gumption to deal with yet another support experience.

I've had great luck so far with my Pixel XL and love it - one of the best phones I've ever owned. But the Pixel I bought along with it has been by far the most unreliable piece of hardware I've bought in a decade. It's really soured my opinion of Google, even though so far they have (grudgingly) replaced the item.

I'm dreading replacing it for the third time, as I know they will refer to their 2 replacements limit in their warranty contract. Zero of those replacements were anything but known hardware issues on the handset itself thousands of others have reported on-line.

DonnyV• 9 years ago

I had the same great experience when my Nexus 5X had a boot loop. I have Google Fi and bought the phone through them. My phone died and next day I had a new phone. Great online experience too.

shimon2• 9 years ago

This sounds terrible. FWIW, I have Project Fi and have had several excellent experiences with their support, including replacing a Nexus 5X that my wife dropped and then ran over with the car.

CoffeeDregs• 9 years ago

Project Fi's support has been nothing short of spectacular... I've had two slow activations (coming from StraightTalk) and they've spent 10-20 minutes on the phone with me until the problem was resolved.

unicornporn2• 9 years ago

Check out these terrible support periods: https://support.google.com/nexus/answer/4457705?hl=en#pixel_...

An iPhone gets OS updates for years and years, Google's flagship Pixel phone has two years of updates. Never would I spend that money on a phone that has so terrible support.

kyrra• 9 years ago

It's 3 years now for the Pixel 2[0][1]. This has been discussed before on HN, and it tends to fall on the reliance on Qualcomm as the chip maker, who is responsible for driver ports on any kernel upgrades. It's the reason Google kicked off project Treble[2].

[0] https://store.google.com/product/pixel_2_specs

[1] http://www.androidpolice.com/2017/10/04/google-says-pixel-2-...

[2] https://android-developers.googleblog.com/2017/05/here-comes...

ctrl-j• 9 years ago

Yeah. I had similar issues with samsung and nexus devices.

Despite the removal of the headphone jack, I switched to an iPhone 7+. Had an issue with touch id, and they just replaced the entire screen for free while I hung out at the mall.

Between the privacy moves Apple has made, along with their awesome support, I can't see myself switching back.

microtonal2• 9 years ago

Same experience here: a year ago my iPhone 5s had discoloration issues on the screen's edges. I booked a genius appointment, they replaced the screen for free, and after two hours I could pick the phone.

I also once had a problem with a new MacBook Pro (probably bad memory). Went to the Apple Store, I could either get a (new) replacement or my money back, no questions asked.

I used Android for a while when Motorola was a Google company and a brief period after they were purchased by Lenovo. My Moto X 2013 had spontaneous reboots, repair took one or two weeks and afterwards they wouldn't tell me the problem was. After a year or so, the Moto X started cracking spontaneously. I also purchased a Moto 360, which spontaneously cracked as well (known problem). Repair took one week, but the package disappeared in delivery. It took them two months (!) to send me a new Moto 360. Then there was the horror of the incredibly buggy Android 5.0 release on the Moto X 2014, which had a memory leak that killed background apps all the time.

bdcravens5• 9 years ago

I had an issue with a MacBook that was totally my fault. (I slammed my fist down on it frustration, tearing the SATA cable) Not only that, but I rolled in there and had an initial attitude at the lack of attention, only to discover I went to the wrong location from where I set my appointment. They took care of me, and replaced the cable for free.

nataz• 9 years ago

I've heard this story a number of times, but it doesn't match at all with my experience. Did she buy it from google?

I bought mine direct from google and the service was fantastic when I had an issue with my phone. I called them up, explained my problem, and 5 mins later they were sending me a replacement in the mail with a pre-stamped shipping package to send the old one back. I'm not sure what else I could ask for.

matwood3• 9 years ago

Did she buy it from google?

Why should that matter? My wife's iPhone was purchased from TMO. It had an issue so she took it into an Apple store and she came out with a new phone 10 minutes later.

mullingitover6• 9 years ago

Did she buy it from google?

It's a Google product. So yes, she bought it from Google. Which store sold this Google product shouldn't be a factor in whether Google is willing to support it to the best of their ability, should it?

pwython• 9 years ago

I'm seeing a trend in this thread that a fair amount of Android users are needing to call up some sort of technical support for OS or hardware issues. Aside from the quality of support being debated, is this really a common thing in the Android world (even for savvy HN users)? I personally haven't seen that case in my Apple group of friends.

r0fl• 9 years ago

Stories like this are the reason I will never switch from Apple products. I have personally have had nothing but outstanding customer service from Apple and have heard countless examples of products being fixed or replaced for free even when out of warranty without any hassles.

Switching to an Android phone to save $100-200 over the lifetime of a product that I use 1000 times per day, and risk bad customer service is just bad value.

hota_mazi3• 9 years ago

Stories like this are the reason I will never switch from Apple products.

Strong words. If Apple's support started getting worse, you'd switch.

What you're saying is that you like to stick with a company that has so far had an outstanding support track record.

Which is pretty self-evident.

hesarenu• 9 years ago

It might be only in USA. Costs so high in India that I can but new android devices each year. Repair costs are high as well again could buy new devices instead of repairing it.

hypersoar• 9 years ago

It seems to make a big difference whether or not you buy it from Google. I've seen lots of complaints from Nexus 6P owners who didn't being shoved off to Huawei and their terrible support. But I bought mine from Google, who twice offered me RMAs after the warranty period was over with no resistance. Most recently they replaced it with a new Pixel XL, instead (due to stock issues, I assume).

That being said, Google needs to improve their out-of-warranty repair/replacement options. I couldn't do anything for my Chromebook Pixel once the warranty ran out, and I wouldn't count on them to randomly add a de facto additional year to the warranty like they did with the 6P, which was probably done because of its terrible, widespread battery issues.

ehsankia2• 9 years ago

It's also worth noting that Nexus line was more of a budget phone, whereas Pixel is a premium flagship. The extra cost is exactly for things such as better costumers support.

I don't understand people comparing a 350$ Nexus 5 phone to a 700$ Pixel phone, and saying that they're both by Google, and anything that applies to the first also must apply to the second. It's also like people blindly hating on support for paid products by bringing anecdotal evidence from support on free products. That's just not how things work.

The Nexus line was barely a Google product, it was just meant to be a vanilla open device for developers, with some Google oversight. That's very different from a premium device built and supported from start to finish by Google.

bretthoerner• 9 years ago

It seems to make a big difference whether or not you buy it from Google.

I bought my 6p from Google. I paid for the extended warranty. It went into a boot loop after 13 months and they still wanted me to pay the $75 fee for a refurb phone. Remember: I paid $89 in advance for a 2 year extended warranty. This is for a well known issue in their hardware, that iirc they are being taken to court for.

I had purchased a new Android phone every year for many years at that point. I do Android development for a popular open source library/product.

They're banned now. No more Android phones in my house for a long time. Happy on the iPhone and know if I walk into an Apple store I'll actually receive support.

donald1232• 9 years ago

Had a bad experience with google support as well. My 6p was bought from google store, had boot loop issue just about 2 weeks out of warranty, google support did not want to take responsibility, and huawei was kind enough to RMA the device for free. Google only started to offer RMAs when the issue was being spread by media. And they recently denied me again of the phone dieing with battery below 40%, said because the phone was repaired by huawei before. Sounds absurd to me, I basically purchased the phone from google store without any support.

And those were multiple tries with different support associates. I will stay away from google hardware products until there are substantial improvements.

lloeki• 9 years ago

Well, when you can. Pixel stuff wasn’t available in France for some reason, and Pixel 2 seemingly isn’t going to be either. That’s another area Samsung and Apple have nailed that Google is yet to crack on the hardware (and sometimes services) side: presence.

P.S: my Nexus 5 support story was stellar. With the Pixel promising but unavailable as a replacement I went for an iPhone 6S (not a 7 because I just invested in quality, jack’d audio hardware)

low_key• 9 years ago

I bought from Google and they replaced mine on warranty after I (truthfully) described it as having been "run over by a car." I expected them to say no, but was very thankful that they helped me.

They did tell me that this was a one-time deal though.

alsocasey• 9 years ago

I bought directly and was passed around by Google and Huawei support for months (and multiple calls; hours of my time wasted - why can't anyone just do support by email anymore?) before ultimately giving up on getting the constant battery issues addressed. Initial contact was precisely 3 weeks outside of the warranty period for the now well-documented phone shuts off when battery reaches [15|30|50]%.

I feel like I purchased a year's worth of problem-free phone experience for nearly $CAD900. To me, that's not great value.

piyush_soni5• 9 years ago

My experience (multiple times) with Google's hardware support has really been nice. Every time they have helped me immediately, sometimes replacing the devices without asking questions or proofs etc.

rokhayakebe• 9 years ago

FYI people may have negative customer support experiences because they insist on the phone with the operator. If someone is not solving your problem, hang up and call again. Eventually you will reach someone who will help. Once I learned this it saved me countless hours, thousands of dollars possibly and a lot of unnecessary frustration.

grzm• 9 years ago

Expecting someone to need to call again until they find an amenable representative is the antithesis of good customer service. You may have found a method that is effective for you; that's great. One should not need to go to such lengths.

jsz03• 9 years ago

Alternatively you can just ask to speak to a supervisor as soon as the CS rep answers. It's not rude and they won't get blamed for screwing up if you don't say anything to them. Most of the time your problem will be solved or at least the supervisor won't waste your time with fairy tales.

sly010• 9 years ago

I guess experiences vary. Both times I broke my google phone they replaced it. We had some issue with setting up Project Fi, but again they ended up replacing it for free. I find that chatting works best with google support.

bzmwillemsen• 9 years ago

I had the same experience. My pixel battery was burning through it's battery at an extraordinary way, I contact support through the phone and got a replacement within the week.

A few months later I heard a rattle in my phone, turns out they sent me one that was part of a line that had an issue with a microphone component. Contact support and yet again it was replaced within a week.

habosa2• 9 years ago

Disclaimer: I work at Google but have nothing to do with any hardware team.

I bought a Nexus 6P from the Google store and had some issues. Out of warranty they replaced it with a new Nexus 6P. When that failed as well, they replaced the phone with a brand new Pixel XL. Each of these replacements was sent via overnight shipping at no cost to me.

I wouldn't call this a great experience because I wish the original phone never had the issue, but I can't ask for more from support.

donald1232• 9 years ago

All I can say is google support is wildly inconsistent.

jsmthrowaway• 9 years ago

Did you identify yourself as a Google employee? Just asking because re: consistency, I could believe a blue badge might pull some weight in that situation. Speaking from experience, badging at an Apple Store will often change a conversation, sometimes dramatically, despite that ability not really being intended at all. Neither here nor there, just a data point.

spankalee• 9 years ago

I think you're identifying why the Pixel program is better than the Nexus program. Google's completely responsible for the design and support now.

ktamura• 9 years ago

I had a similar experience and decided not to buy high-end Android phones: the modular (or fragmented) nature of Android's ecosystem doesn't lend itself for quality end-to-end experience. This is not meant to be a knock on Android. I exclusively used Android for the last 4 years, and I like Google's software, the choices on hardware, etc.

However, when it comes to end-to-end experience, Apple's vertically integrated approach is simply better. This is one of the key reasons I switched back to iPhone recently: I just want my phone to work and to be taken care of when it doesn't work.

bane• 9 years ago

I've had two Android "support" experiences, so here's my anecdata:

1) My wife's Samsung phone developed an issue. We contacted Samsung and they RMA'd it and she had a brand new phone by the end of the week. Not Applecare, but it was fine.

2) Had an Android tablet with a minor battery recall. The manufacturer just sent me a second tablet and told me to keep both.

I hear about these kinds of horror stories but if you go in knowing that you aren't going to get Applecare, you don't look for it and you deal with it like literally any other consumer purchase you might make in your life, from refrigerators to cars and it's suddenly not a big deal.

Mikeb85• 9 years ago

And the Pixel XL is the best phone I've ever used. Let's face it, everyone has good/bad experiences with lots of devices.

The iPhone 3G is the worst purchase I ever made, a month after buying it iOS 4 turned it into a barely functoinal brick with no ability to roll back the OS.

I've also had an HTC Amaze which was great, a Note 3 which was great, a Nexus 5 which was OK, etc...

No company always gets it right, even Apple. That being said, the Pixel XL was great, so I'll guess that this new one will be good too. Nexus 6p was a dud, Huawei doesn't make them anymore, Google re-branded and moved on...

huehehue• 9 years ago

My girlfriend had the exact same experience with her Nexus 5x.

Fwiw there's a small open-source patch for affected devices that disables big cores (disables dual core I think) and fixes the bootloop but cripples the phone's performance.

Now, it looks like those issues are caused by the Snapdragon 808/810. The Pixel 2 uses the 835. I don't think it's been around long enough to know of any long-term issues, but I'm hoping it sucks less.

DSingularity• 9 years ago

Been android all my life. Bought almost every phone on the Google store. After the Nexus 6p experience -- I made an oath to my self to never buy another Google phone again.

From the onset it was broke. We are talking just a week after I bought, I started noticing a pattern of complaints about the audio clarity. I call support, what do I get? A refurb. Whatever, phone was just released -- probably gonna be a new phone. Two weeks later, another phone, same problem. I got used to it eventually, and worked around it. Headset, speaker phone, or whatsapp (for whatever reason) would fix the problem.

At first it was never Huawei again, whatever. But that changed. I called Google store again, one last time to complain. This time, they offered me a "buyers remorse refund". But then they retracted their offer as soon as the lady saw that I had it for a few weeks longer than 2 year. They told me the option wasn't available. But I kept asking them, why didn't you offer me this the second or third time I called? They never answered that one directly.

I am still so angry about this... I threw 600$ + 100$ for warranty at a company and for 2+ years I had a crappy phone that doesnt work when I call people. Done, never again.

k__3• 9 years ago

I went for no-name Android phones for years now and can't complain.

First I had a Huawei Ascend Mate 7 (6") for 2 years, then a Huawei MediaPad X2 (7") for 3 years. Somehow they stopped to build big phones, so I switched to a Xiaomi Mi Max 2 (6.4") and I couldn't be happier.

I paid a fraction of the price of one of those Nexus/iPhone/Samsung flagship Smartphones and they all had what I needed, big display and big battery.

user-on110• 9 years ago

it doesn't matter if we buy from google store, i was told the google hardware will send me a replacement 2 months back and i am still mailing for follow ups as i haven't got any response. on top of this every time i discus i get contradicting and time wasting response. i don't think anyone who needs to look at value for money factor would buy a mobile beyond 100$ or if possible 50$ and funny things is they have 80% of the features and definitely more than what we need.

j454• 9 years ago

I was put through the Huawei/Google ping pong. I don't know what the alternative is.

I bought a lot of Samsung notes, but they are outright negligent with monthly security updates. Samsung also famously introduced the Galaxy Note 2 a little over 8 months after I spent $900 on the Note 1 (which became a paperweight quickly due to faulty sim trays).

Almost all android manufacturers are negligent in creating good phones, and if they do, ruining them by not offering the required monthly updates that Google and Apple offer directly.

Android was a poor experience pre-gingerbread. Now, the changed UI's doesn't look much better than native android - product differentiation aside.

Google was onto something very good with LG and the Nexus 5 partnership. I'm encouraged to see LG building their phone again, and hope the HTC acquisition will improve the phone quality moving forward.

If google is serious, I hope they leave the XL with LG while they build the Pixel 3 with their new HTC subsidiary to get some experience under their belt before expanding.

I'm using an LG G6 for the past few months. The phone has been excellent. The phone updates are a few months behind and I'm reminded why I'll be probably heading back to a monthly security Android phone - at moment I believe it's the Pixels or a Blackberry.

sundvor2• 9 years ago

Ah, mobile phones.. :-)

I think my first phone was the Motorola Micro Tac, which was revolutionary for price and size. It selled like hotcakes in Norway on release in .. 93? Then the Nokia 8110, which I loved - it had WAP! :)

Then (in Australia) I had the great misfortune of buying into Hutchinson's first 3g phone - the Motorola A920. Switched after a while to the Motorola Razr - awesome - upgraded to the SLVR L7 - and then I think the Nokia N85.

My first proper smartphone was an iPhone 3, jailbroke it, then switched to the Nexus One when it came out. That was one of my all time favourites; still have it, still works (sans sim). I've been on Samsungs pretty much since that, however, starting with their S2 - then Nexus 4 briefly (got run over by a car after 2 months, fell out of pocket and got completely squashed - I was gutted) - replaced it with the S4, then the S6 Edge and now the S8+.

Have no regrets for staying with Samsung in the past 6 odd years. Love the OLED screens.

On the occasions when I've been having issues I've received immediate service; latest was my old S6 Edge needing a new motherboard which was done same day at a Samsung Experience center (Melbourne Central). This was at 16 months.

I'll continue buying their products until such a time that they make me regret it. I've been lucky with my phones; no major issues other than Three phone due to the initial horrible state of the network and the rushed release of the phone.

krosaen• 9 years ago

Huh, my brother has a 6p and recently got it replaced by a refurbished one after it had issues booting. My 5x has worked like a champ for two years.

user5994461• 9 years ago

Take a look at the chinese manufacturers if you want good android phones.

hobbyjogger• 9 years ago

My experience with Nexus 6p support was very different. I bought my 6P at launch in 2015, it ran perfectly for a year and a half and then I noticed that it shut down at around 15% battery a couple of times. One phone call to Google, despite the fact that I was out of warranty, and then 2 days later a brand new Pixel XL (last year's model) showed up in an overnight FedEx. Could not be more pleased.

guelo• 9 years ago

More anecdata: I've had excellent support with my Pixel, had a replacement phone shipped in two days when I had a hardware problem.

Johnny5552• 9 years ago

Why would you expect them to support the phone indefinitely outside of warranty or a support contract?

My Nexus 5X had a boot loop issue, I filed a support ticket, paid the deductible, and 2 days later I had a replacement phone in hand. Couldn't have been easier...

user-on110• 9 years ago

you are not alone, i am sure 1000's are impacted because of this.

https://productforums.google.com/forum/#!msg/nexus/G_0s70PzK...

Check this! You can still buy devices from Google or LG or HTC if you have way too much money to waste of same device repeatedly every year.

carlmango11• 9 years ago

I had the opposite experience. My Nexus 5X randomly stopped working (which it shouldn't have obviously, but a different discussion). Google were great to deal with. Got put through to a human very quickly and he just asked me to email a few photos of the phone just to make sure it wasn't smashed to pieces.

After I sent them, within a few days a brand new Nexus was delivered along with a return package for my broken one. They didn't even demand I send back the faulty one first. He said the idea was that you won't be without a phone in the interim (irrelevant in my case however as the phone was bricked).

lotsofpulp• 9 years ago

When I broke my Nexus 4 or whatever it was called in 2012 or so, they wanted me to ship them my phone first to repair and give them a credit card authorization in case they had to send a new one, and then after they fixed it, I would get it back, maybe after 10 business days. This was all purchased from google’s own website.

After that I went with iPhone, simply because I know I can get it replaced or fixed within 2 days, but I have walked out of the store with a brand new one in 20 min before.

jdc0589• 9 years ago

Opposite experience here: My 5x started boot-looping for no reason a few weeks ago, also out of warranty. I got a new on in the mail 3 days later, zero hassle.

Miner49er• 9 years ago

That's interesting, because I had a friend who had the 6p, and when he ran into problems they replaced his phone with a brand new Pixel. Which is worth way more then a 6p new.

j454• 9 years ago

The 6P had it's issues (I experienced some too).

Pixel was much better, except the XL 128gb had memory speed issues.

Google has gone back to LG to build the Pixel 2 XL, (similar to the Nexus 5) which was great. For that reason I'm probably going to get it - my dad still has and loves his LG made nexus 5.

jpgvm• 9 years ago

I love my Nexus 5 and would probably love a Pixel 2 but it has no headphone jack. :(

I do an insane amount of long-haul flying and really rely on the 3.5mm jack for my noise cancelling headphones. I could get bluetooth headphones but they wouldn't work with in-flight entertainment when it's available.

I hope this whole no-headphone jack trend doesn't continue, I know the 3.5mm TNC isn't the best jack but if you don't want it because of bad waterproofing reasons or size/whatever can we just get a different analog jack with an adapter? Having the DAC built into the phone is required to keep things nice.

serialpreneur• 9 years ago

I had boot loop problems twice in less than 3 year span with two different Nexus phones one after the other! Nexus 4 and Nexus 5X. I gave up on Android after that. It sucks because I was a big Android fan. Not going back now even after the whole headphone jack fiasco with iPhone 7+

maltalex3• 9 years ago

Not going back now even after the whole headphone jack fiasco with iPhone 7+

The Pixel 2 doesn't have a headphone jack either: https://www.engadget.com/2017/10/04/google-unveils-the-pixel...

johnbrodie• 9 years ago

An opposite anecdote:

I bought my Nexus 5X used on Swappa. It finally bootlooped about a month ago. Called Project Fi support, they transferred the phone to my ownership in their system, and then issued an RMA and sent me a refurbed 5X. I was fairly surprised, as the phone was both out of warranty and bought used.

miguelrochefort• 9 years ago

I bought an extended warranty from Asurion for my Nexus 6P.

Last month, it started shutting down early. I contacted them and they're sending me a $800 check...

solaxun• 9 years ago

I thought the Nexus 5 was the best phone I ever owned (I've owned many Android phones, across the spectrum, as well as several iPhones). It was a really great phone, for a while. After about 10 months the battery starting dying at 15% without warning, then eventually 20%, 30%, and finally 50% mid-run when I decided to put it out of it's misery. You could write it off as a one-time known flaw with the battery used by Huawei in this model, but this type of story is consistently my experience with Android products.

The applications are generally less polished, the hardware is better on paper yet fails to hold up in real life, and the battery life is abysmal within a year or less. It use to be the case that some of the sacrifices were worth it because flagship Android phones were considerably cheaper than their Apple counterparts, but that is no longer true either.

I'll be going back to Apple for the first time since the iPhone 4, now that they've finally killed the hideous 1980's CRT style bezel.

mattmcknight2• 9 years ago

I specifically stayed away from the Nexus 6P because it was Huawei. Never buy anything Huawei- seriously, never. The Pixel is much more of a Google phone than the Nexus line was.

I had the Samsung Galaxy Nexus and then the Galaxy S5, both great phones. Definitely preferred the vanilla Android experience though, and the Pixel XL has been great for the past year. It is the best phone I've ever held, vastly better display than any iPhone. The Pixel 2 with no headphone jack is not going to work for me, but I expect to use the Pixel XL for 3-4 years anyway.

avsteele• 9 years ago

My 6p worked fine. What turned me off google phones is that that i only bought it a year ago and it won't even get security updates beyond a year from now. Might as well be a brick then.

specto• 9 years ago

Same, it was a huge mistake...

on_and_off4• 9 years ago

Interesting.

My support experience with the 6p was pretty good : when the battery became unusable they replaced the phone without asking too many questions (they just made sure I had followed all the basic steps to make sure that the problem was indeed hardware, even though I am a mobile engineer able to diagnose the device myself. I don't rely blame them for having to follow a script though).

Anecdotally my support experience with Apple has been atrocious : -they refused to repair my mbp 2011 whereas it suffered from their well known design flaw in the GPU soldering and have a repair program for this model.

-they made me pay reparation fees for a mbp for which all the cooling system started malfunctioning while it was still in the warranty period.

pasbesoin• 9 years ago

Had a Moto X 2013. Bought it because it was supported by Verizon (the only connectivity, some places I went/go), and with the Google purchase of Moto, was supposed to get timely updates on an ongoing basis. Well, not so much...

Switched to a Nexus 5x. After 1.3 years of rather gentle use, it bootlooped. I would attempt to get Google to deal with it, but it bootlooped days after I took pictures of flood damage (not mine, fortunately), and I hadn't gotten those pictures off the phone. Then, I got busy. Still hope one of the rescue approaches will let me get the pictures off, before I try to maybe get a replacement. Fuck the warranty, 1.3 years of use -- cut short by a known product defect -- is simply not acceptable.

I bought a cheap Moto G5 Plus to tide me over; figured I could dink around with it after I switched to maybe a Pixel 2.

At this point, and at those prices, I can't bring myself to give Google a premium price for that product.

Maybe if I find a cheap Pixel 1, I'll give Android one more go. Otherwise, it's Apple.

Even if Apple is pricey, I'll expect decent support and to amortize that cost over more than a year, two at the outside.

P.S. The Moto G5+ was widely heralded as "the" budget Android choice. And while the camera is definitely not top tier, it takes mostly ok pictures, and the phone otherwise functions decently. Even its IPS screen is no slouch.

It was already a bit behind, on Android 7.0 and not 7.1 . This caused me some concern, but I wasn't going to plop down e.g. full price for a Pixel 1 with the Pixel 2 just weeks away.

But now we have the Bluetooth... I forget the catchy name. The Bluemageddon. And I'm back to plugging in the speaker to listen to podcasts (fortunately, old enough to have a jack). The older FM adapter in the car, that has a jack; its replacement is Bluetooth only. (And I'm sorry, but my older car is in fine shape and I don't really need to replace it, nor to I wan to rip apart its rather nice integrated and apparently rather well-tunend stereo system.)

Anyway, at least the G5+ has an audio out jack. Because I don't know when the hell Lenovo is going to get around to shipping the Bluetooth fix to it.

So, basically, Google, if you happen to be reading this: Fuck all this.

I've also started to encounter interesting posts from developers who say that this kind of outlay for an Android device on which they can adequately test, is getting outside the realm of the reasonable. Not my bailiwick.

But if you're a small-time developer, and your iPhone bites it, seems you may actually get some support from Apple.

mrb• 9 years ago

Had a similar experience but better opinion of Google's sorry. My wife's 6P entered a bootloop 5 or 7 days after the 1-year warranty expired. Google and Huawei said "sorry—your warranty expired." But I don't fault them. An expired warranty is, after all, expired. I ended up reselling the phone on eBay for $120. At least it's recycled: people use them for parts.

On the other hand, I actually loved Google's support. Reaching them on the phone was easy. No wait. At some point I had to step away to take care of my baby, so they said they would call me back in 30min, and the same rep called me EXACTLY on the dot when they said they would call. They didn't follow a script to the letter, with numerous unnecessary steps, but jumped ahead when I told them what I had tried to diagnose the problem. Overall, very efficient, quality support. Of course I was bummed the bootloop couldn't be fixed (I experienced it before it was a widespread issue) but I was honestly stunned how good their support experience was.

I ended up replacing the 6P by a Nexus 5X. I know I'll get good support IF I ever need it.

microtonal2• 9 years ago

My wife's 6P entered a bootloop 5 or 7 days after the 1-year warranty expired. Google and Huawei said "sorry—your warranty expired." But I don't fault them. An expired warranty is, after all, expired.

How is this acceptable? The boot loop is most likely caused by a software bug that was not introduced by your wife (unless she was installing custom ROMs). Moreover, it is probably easy for Huawei/Google to repair the phone by reflashing the firmware.

Rather than going the extra mile for a customer who dropped $500+ on a device, they literally stick to the warranty period mandated by the law and leave you out in the woods.

That is terrible customer service.

0xcafecafe• 9 years ago

I had a reverse experience with Google support. Me and my wife bought our Nexus 5x phones at the same time, me from amazon and she from Google. When mine bootlooped (under warranty), I was forced to contact LG and they did take the phone in but returned it back without fixing claiming "water damage". I read online that they were doing that for many customers to shrug off their responsibility.

When my wife's phone bootlooped (8 months out of warranty), Google shipped her a replacement phone for free! I swore myself away from buying any LG products after that.

bfrog• 9 years ago

No headphone jack, twice as much as my nexus 5x. You lost me and my family as a customer for both phones and service.

p-funk• 9 years ago

I was really looking forward to this phone. Lack of headphone jack = instant dealbreaker.

TsomArp2• 9 years ago

I bought a second-hand Pixel on Ebay. The seller sent it complete with boxes, manual, etc. After 6 months it received an OTA and now is a 600 dollars paperweight. They tell me that since the phone, which is not reported stolen, is assigned to another account they cannot do anything about it. I have contacted the seller but she won't respond. Be aware of this.

kilroy123• 9 years ago

Have you tried sideloading an update manually? It's really easy and quick to do.

https://developers.google.com/android/ota

TsomArp2• 9 years ago

I will try it. I tried to get into download mode and recovery, and no luck.

Multicomp• 9 years ago

I wonder if Nexus 6 users would move to the Pixel XL2? I love that it has stereo front-facing speakers with the full 6 inch screen, but as Darth Shamu said: "I find your lack of a headphone jack disturbing"

seaghost• 9 years ago

There is no privacy with those devices.

niuzeta2• 9 years ago

Though there is some bad news this year: the headphone jack is gone.

Expected, but it still stings. I guess I'll look elsewhere for my replacement for trusty Nexus 5X. Speaking of which, how's Pixel?

junnan2• 9 years ago

Great software and camera. But having seen pixel 2 xl, I find the bezel on my pixel really intolerable.

niuzeta2• 9 years ago

I don't really mind bezel; it's the lack of headphone jack that I take exception on.

bhuga• 9 years ago

My pixel hardware has been a disappointment. The vibrator actually broke off from the phone and it now just makes a rattling noise as it bounces around inside the phone. The screen scratches easily. Bluetooth pops and crackles.

I couldn't have imagined buying a second pixel, so removing the saving grace, the headphone jack, almost seems gratuitous.

slavik81• 9 years ago

The screen scratches easily.

This is an understatement. After I got a few scratches on my Galaxy S4 from putting my phone in my pocket with keys, I made sure I would never make that mistake again. I was extra-cautious with my Pixel, but after less than a year of ownership it's is already the most scratched-up phone I've ever had.

AdmiralAsshat3• 9 years ago

There's a reason that Samsung still leads the pack in sales, and it's not solely due to marketing: they keep the stuff people want. People want a headphone jack, they held onto the headphone jack. People want SD card slots, they keep SD card slots.

I held off on getting a GS8 about two months ago when Amazon had a great deal on them going because I was in the process of moving, and I wanted to wait to see what else was coming out. Even though the S8 is lagging behind on updates, it still seems to be the best option. The HTC 11, Pixel 2, and Essential phone have all disappointed.

Waiting on the reviews for how the Sony Xperia XZ1 compact fares, because I wouldn't mind a smaller phone.

pier254• 9 years ago

I like Samsung's hardware, but I still can't stand their TouchWiz UI.

I don't understand why manufacturers simply don't offer a stock Android variant.

AdmiralAsshat3• 9 years ago

They did, they were called "Google Play Editions".[0]

No one bought them, because they were released at a time when people still paid subsidized phone prices and upgraded their phones every two years for $200. So when they were asked to pay $600 upfront, the vast majority had sticker shock.

[0]https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2013/07/review-the-samsung-g...

willtim4• 9 years ago

TouchWiz is better than stock android now. It has lots of additional useful features, especially in the areas of split screen and power saving.

twblalock• 9 years ago

I don't understand why manufacturers simply don't offer a stock Android variant.

When the hardware is commoditized, manufacturers need to distinguish themselves by offering a unique software experience.

That's what they are all trying to do. Unfortunately, most of them aren't any good at it, and the UIs they come up with are usually worse than stock Android. But if they offered stock Android, they would have to compete on hardware alone, and they are just slapping commodity parts together like everyone else except Apple.

lurker-5• 9 years ago

I won't defend ditching the headphone jack, especially after Google ridiculed Apple for doing so. But as a very happy owner of the Pixel phone, I'd say the free, unlimited storage of photos and videos in original quality is a million times better than having a SD card slot.

Just today I transferred about 25GB of video and photos, and I probably wouldn't have bothered to record these videos if I had to transfer using SD card or cable. One might argue that's a sign that these videos aren't worth storing, but I'd say it shows the value of unlimited storage. In fact, if I had to choose between two near identical phones, with the only thing separating them being the unlimited Google Photos storage, then I'd gladly add an additional $250 to obtain that.

I think many of us experienced what it's like to make the jump from HD to FHD, or especially FHD to UHD on a similar sized screen. Once you make the jump, then you begin to wonder how you ever lived without it. For me, and I think for most Pixel owners, unlimited storage of high quality photos and 4k videos gives the exact same feeling. Having stock Android, best camera, slick design and great build quality just makes it that much sweeter, and I honestly do believe that marketing, brand loyalty and availability is the only reason the Pixel phone wasn't more successful than [insert any phone here] (I'd estimate 19 out of 20 who have asked about my phone never heard of Google Pixel, and had no idea Google even made any hardware products).

AdmiralAsshat3• 9 years ago

Your unlimited original-quality photos will be cut off after 2020:

http://www.androidpolice.com/2017/10/04/pixel-2s-free-origin...

vardump• 9 years ago

Just today I transferred about 25GB of video and photos, and I probably wouldn't have bothered to record these videos if I had to transfer using SD card or cable.

Now try to take pictures on holiday without cheap & available 4g or wifi. I prefer a few 256 GB microSD-cards. It takes just 10 seconds to swap it out and put in a fresh new one. You can transfer the contents into a Macbook at speedy 90 MB/s.

BigJono• 9 years ago

That's all well and good in countries where you don't pay $10/GB for mobile data...

teacpde• 9 years ago

I have been looking for a replacement for my iphone 6s for a while. I find LG V30 is appealing in terms of both aesthetic and specs.

Jach• 9 years ago

I want a removable battery, not an exploding one. (Still on my Note 3, with its battery swapped out after the stock one started giving me bad battery life, a friend is still on his Note 4.) And I make use of the IR Blaster just enough that I'd be annoyed not to have it anymore. Samsung doesn't keep stuff people want, they just follow trends like everyone else. I am looking forward to seeing how the "flexible phones/tablets" end up though since I've wanted that concept for a while, even if I have to give up some features for it...

dabernathy896• 9 years ago

I have an S8 (plus) and I'd love to upgrade to the Pixel 2. I am so tired of Samsung trying to replace every piece of functionality with their own. I had to go find Google's "Android messaging" app in the Play store - just their standard SMS app - to replace the Samsung stock one because it kept opening URLs in "Samsung Internet", their version of the browser. The Samsung keyboard is awful, and I can't seem to find a decent replacement. And don't get me started on f'ing Bixby.

jonlucc• 9 years ago

Have you tried and disliked the Google keyboard? That's what I used when I was on a GS6, and it was pretty good.

EnderMB• 9 years ago

This is the only thing stopping me from buying a Samsung phone.

They've almost a completely different company from the original Samsung Galaxy days. If they could partner their build quality with a stock experience and optional downloads of their apps then I'd be completely sold.

bdcravens5• 9 years ago

People want SD card slots, they keep SD card slots.

Wasn't really a fan of moving it to the SIM tray. Too easy to lose your SIM card that way. Then again, they did make it tougher to remove the SD card, since you need the tool/paperclip handy (as opposed to the easy-access removable battery cover)

ragazzina• 9 years ago

Waiting on the reviews for how the Sony Xperia XZ1 compact fares, because I wouldn't mind a smaller phone.

Wow, this looks nice. I have wanted a small android phone like this for YEARS, before finally buying an iPhone SE a couple of months ago.

martin19753• 9 years ago

Thanks Google. Even with your $400 trade in refund, I think I'll stick with my original Google Pixel XL and forego marginal improvements and no 3.5mm jack on the phone itself. Forget your USB-C->3.5mm plugin... it's a pathetic attempt to move us away from wired to wireless headphones which never will work as well as 3.5 mm headsets/buds.

In fact, if you don't shape up in a year or so by the time I will upgrade, I'm probably going back to Moto, or getting a Samsung...

Spooks• 9 years ago

I think wireless will eventually work as well, but that future is not now (or close to it). This would have to improve first: Sound quality, battery life (both for the phone, as bluetooth needs to be on, and headphone) and price

martin19753• 9 years ago

When they make bluetooth earbuds that have same quality sound as Etymotic ER4's, I'll switch then... the likelihood of that happening is virtually nil. reply

make3• 9 years ago

the smaller one looks like a stictly worse oneplus5

nickjj• 9 years ago

Be careful with the unlimited video storage deal because it's not really unlimited video?

It's unlimited until 2020[0] and then I'm guessing you'll have to pay for it afterwards, and after a few years of taking videos without caring about space, you're probably going to rack up a massive bill or have to spend a ton of time cherry picking what you want to save.

Their plan is pretty smart tho. Most people will be like "screw it, I'll just buy another phone to avoid spending that just to keep my videos".

[0] https://i.imgur.com/M5LYvrH.png (read the fine print)

mscrivo2• 9 years ago

That's insidious if that's the case. I (and probably) many others took it to mean that photos taken through that date would enjoy unlimited storage permanently, not that they would start charging after that date. Would be nice if we could get some clarification.

Orangeair• 9 years ago

Parent comment is correct. From footnote #2 from here: https://store.google.com/us/product/pixel_2

Free, unlimited original-quality storage for photos and videos taken with Pixel through the end of 2020, and free, unlimited high-quality storage for photos taken with Pixel afterwards.

on_and_off4• 9 years ago

As I understand it, the media you capture until 2020 is unlimited and will stay that way, and only what you capture afterwards will eat your quota.

c0smic• 9 years ago

When they mentioned the headphone jack being removed, I thought it was a joke. I have a 6S now and was considering getting the Pixel, in part because of the headphone jack and also for the more "open" ecosystem of Android (and things not proprietary-Apple). But now it's basically the same, so there's less motivation for me there. I just think Google could've swooped in and gotten the people who still appreciate headphone jacks.

Interesting round of new devices this year around, I wonder what the consensus is on who did it better, Google or Apple?

macandcheese• 9 years ago

Pretty much have to stick to iPhone 6S for the rest of my life... So disappointing to see possibly THE ONLY universal port - the 3.5mm aux - be removed from devices before our eyes. I wonder what the adoption rate on Bluetooth / Lightning / USBC headphones is. Can't imagine more than 5% or so.

culturestate• 9 years ago

Bluetooth headphone sales passed wired headphone sales last year, even before the iPhone 7 was announced [1]. I have to believe it’s only gone up from there.

1. https://qz.com/745108/wireless-headphone-sales-just-hit-a-ti...

izzydata• 9 years ago

I love my Nexus 5X, but the high end phone market has no appeal to me. I don't need a phone that can do 5% more and cost 150% more. I'm not sure why anyone needs a phone like this really.

Perhaps the Nexus 5X is only good because it is basically an LG G phone.

pier254• 9 years ago

I'd love to buy a Pixel phone (1 or 2) but Google doesn't sell where I live just South of the border.

Decabytes• 9 years ago

Is there a way to remove the auto-scanning and microphone listening features? I have an Iphone so I don't know. Every phone does this now I know. It just seems weird that it is brought up so non-chalantly in the article. Like I guess we are just okay with this now.

anderber• 9 years ago

On the original Pixel there is, I assume it would be the case with the new one.

hitekker• 9 years ago

The pixel 2 was made by HTC and pixel 2xl was made by LG.

Two manufacturers for what should be the same phone.

There are no words.

jacquesc• 9 years ago

Dropped my Pixel 1 in a toilet. Glad the Pixel 2 is water proof. Preordered!

dirtylowprofile• 9 years ago

Android Nougat still 17.8% on the market.

I've been developing Android apps since 2011, and Android development is getting worse. The support I have to deal with goes back to Android 4.4 which is like 4-5 years ago. And the phones in the market here in Asia are still mostly on 6.0. I am no longer getting excited for Android releases anymore.

beams_of_light• 9 years ago

How could they neglect wireless charging and the headphone jack?

Abishek_Muthian• 9 years ago

In my experience with Nexus (4&6P), it always had microphone issues (person on the other side not being able hear you for first few minutes); since I always used Bluetooth headset for calls; I didn’t bother much.

But I’ve seen some good support cases from Google for nexus, my friend exchanged his nexus 4 after a year out of warranty by sending to US though; it was not bought from Google in India. I hope the support would be better for Pixel series of devices now that they own the manufacturer responsibility.

mastazi• 9 years ago

Very underwhelming.

The camera solution they adopted is technologically inferior to the (much more common) dual wide/tele lens solution, since the former offers only some of the advantages of the latter (e.g. bokeh: yes, 2X optical zoom: no).

And they gave that guy who retrofitted a headphone jack in the iPhone 7 a reason to come out with a new video.

jraedisch• 9 years ago

I am an Android user but it seems to me that it gets more and more invasive. Everytime I go somewhere it wants me to take photos and just now it advertised some Play Store movie. Search asks for location access on almost every search. To get rid of the search bar I need to install third party software.

When I buy a premium phone I want the phone to work for me and not the other way around. The notification bar should only be used for stuff that I want to be notified about - not ads or cheap tries to get me working for free.

In the future I sometimes imagine two classes of devices: one controls the lives of their owners and one helps their owners to control their lives. What does Android want?

threatofrain• 9 years ago

And Google makes it so hard to disable the new Google Feed for Android, but so distractingly easy to accidentally press. Their settings experience is still a mess.

bdcravens5• 9 years ago

I have an iPhone as my primary phone, and a secondary Pixel XL. The Pixel XL uses a separate Gmail account, used nowhere else. I've added no "Places" to Google maps. I love how it tells me how many minutes my drive to work is (which I'm okay with that on my iPhone, since I explicitly set that info in Google Maps on that account)

noncoml3• 9 years ago

one controls the lives of their owners and one helps their owners to control their lives. What does Android want?

I think you answered your own question in the first paragraph.

Don’t give google any data, other than maybe your searches.

Instead of working for google, let google work for you. Only searches and in a different tab container.

cup-of-tea• 9 years ago

Android wants to make money for Google. It sounds like what you want is a pocket-sized computer that can make telephone calls. Shouldn't be so difficult, right? But maybe it would be twice the price if you want to pay with money and not your data.

llukas• 9 years ago

Or same price and it would be 1-2 mm thicker with resolution only slightly bigger than regular destkop monitor? Who knows...

romanovcode• 9 years ago

Android wants to make money for Google.

Pretty sure they just want to sell more ads since 88% of their revenue comes from ads.[0]

[0] https://www.valuewalk.com/2017/05/tech-giants-google-apple-f...

traspler• 9 years ago

I really liked many of the Google services and lived comfortably and happy with them, Android as well. I think I went all in on Google. And it was fine until now.

But now I am pretty fed up with Android and Google. The increased invasiveness and how I can't disable features that I don't want anymore or the incredible persistence of asking to activate something I declined multiple times until they make it required, really put me off.

Another thing is that many of the shiny features don't benefit me at all. Previously Google offered services anyone could use. Search, GMail, Android. But now more and more services are locked to countries, languages and devices which only a subset of Google users can benefit from but everyone is expected to deal with these features.

Some features simply don't work reliably at all (e.g. Google Trips and most of Google Now related to GMail, Hangouts before it got killed) and some features are pretty much useless to me as they are bound to either the USA or a language I don't casually speak (e.g. as a Swiss-German speaker the whole Google Assistant stuff is just not fun at all as I have to either speak High-German or English. Both of which is not as natural as my native language. Many Google Now cards seem to show way less info compared to the USA or show way worse data.)

One benefit might be the "ecosystem" of everything working together perfectly but to me they still have a long way to go to achieve this. I think I see a direction in their messy portfolio of services, apps and devices but currently it's a terrible mess. Devices being abandoned as soon as they launch. Services migration to way less capable ones. That's not a seamless ecosystem, that's just a burden to me.

So to me it feels like Google expects me to let them invade my private space more and more, give them more and more of my life even though they offer very little actually intuitively useful things. For me it has long been that what they offer is worth it but now that balance has tipped towards offering very little for a lot of me.

staticelf4• 9 years ago

I hate the invasive features that seems to only increase with every Android update. So now I am getting an iPhone for the first time in years.

And this year’s Pixel will take advantage of the phone’s always-on microphones to listen for music (not just the phrase “OK Google”) and display what you’re listening to on the screen, even if it’s something on the radio.

Like.. wtf? No! I don't want that. Sure it "only listens for music". I don't want Google to save my passwords in apps. I don't want anything of that. Get out of my life google.

In the process of removing Google out of my life as much as possible. This is my progress:

Completed:

- Using DDG for search

- Using bing maps or OSM for maps

- Only using Firefox / Vivaldi for browsing.

TODO:

- Move email provider completely, now I am only partly using my gmail.

- Move to iPhone (will soon be done)

- Youtube (unfortunately I think this is hard to avoid)

Don't really use any other Google service than that. I urge people to do the same.

unicornporn2• 9 years ago

I installed CopperheadOS on my Nexus 5X, it has been a blessing. I use OsmAnd~ maps and navigation, Startpage for search and Firefox (and Firefox Klar) as my browser.

I chose Mailbox.org as my mail/calendar/contacts provider. DAVdroid syncs my calendar with the default Copperhead OS calendar app (Etar) and the Contacts app. I use the K-9 mail app.

For YouTube I use NewPipe. It suits me a lot better than the YouTube app. I can even download video/audio for offline use.

All the apps I mentioned above are free and open source and available via the F-Droid app “store” that comes pre-installed with Copperhead.

For the first time I feel that I own my phone (not the other way around).

tyler33• 9 years ago

You can install lineageOS intead of android on your phone, because I think apple could be similar in some ways to google

Grazester3• 9 years ago

"I urge people to do the same."

I am just fine with my Google service thank you. If I don't like something I disable it. Most of it I can and I appreciate the convenience of some of the stuff.

The iphone without any of the doodads feels like a dumb phone. This is a great way though to discourage constant phone use though.

criddell9• 9 years ago

When I buy a premium phone I want the phone to work for me and not the other way around.

You are in the wrong ecosystem then. On Android, you are a sharecropper on Google's farm.

takeda2• 9 years ago

Agree, these behaviors are only acceptable if the phone would be paid for by Google. It's very silly that we pay $1,000 for a phone that actually helps Google make even more money when we use it.

fnl• 9 years ago

This phone is as expensive as the latest iOS phones, at least ball-park wise. Yet, Google only supports its hardware for two years, while Apple does so for four, at least (still too little, but at least twice as good). I am using a "bricked" Nexus 5 right now and need to update because I get no more updates. No more Google phones for me, unless they cost half or less than the current iPhones.

CharlesDodgson• 9 years ago

Bit of a side conversation here, but is anyone else jaded that the only real options are iOS and Android?

fnwx172• 9 years ago

As creepy as the increased invasion of privacy on the Google phones, the most disturbing is the Google Clips camera. That's literally how the movie "The Circle" started (although it's a pretty bad movie).

lenkite• 9 years ago

Buy OnePlus phones instead of expensive crap. OnePlus is cheap, reliable and replaceable.

Google Pixel 2 and 2 XL announced

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