“We will stop updating and distributing the Flash Player at the end of 2020”

https://blogs.adobe.com/conversations/2017/07/adobe-flash-update.html

by mintplant • 9 years ago

1213 487 9 years ago

blogs.adobe.com

sqeaky• 9 years ago

I have seen a massive downtrend in flash use already. Is there anyone building building new and serious projects in it now?

lj3• 9 years ago

Not since they bailed on stage3d. That was the beginning of the end.

Someone2• 9 years ago

I thought this was the beginning of the end: https://www.apple.com/hotnews/thoughts-on-flash/

draw_down2• 9 years ago

It used to be bundled with Chrome somehow so if you really needed it, you had it. Now I just don't use it. If something requires Flash then well, too bad for me.

zerocrates• 9 years ago

Still is bundled with Chrome.

nerdponx• 9 years ago

Turner Classic Movies streams in Flash. Not sure how long that tech has been in use, I only started streaming it recently.

iRobbery• 9 years ago

If there is one, that must be an offline developer that doesn't communicate with other developers and missed adobes' own notification adobe adobe flash (https://blogs.adobe.com/conversations/2015/11/flash-html5-an...)

syshum2• 9 years ago

Sadly yes...

VMWare is one large one.

I know of a very large company that has been over the last couple of years moving from Java to Flash, so it will be amusing to what their reaction will be to this news.

Karunamon• 9 years ago

Supposedly upgrading the vSphere web interface to HTML5 is on the roadmap, but I'm not sure when. I'm just happy that they give you an external console app now.

syncsynchalt• 9 years ago

Now that we're down to the last few sites running flash it really drives home what an annoyance they are. I don't run flash on my main browser (I work in security), so I have to keep Chrome handy to log into VMWare, and because even the login page is Flash there's little password manager support.

Then once I'm logged in the non-native styling and controls really drive me up the wall.

FRex2• 9 years ago

Yes, games.

http://www.kongregate.com/top-rated-games?sort=newest

Although it's not clear from just a game being in Flash if it's in Haxe and compiled to Flash or actually in AS, but still. It's so convenient for games.

slashzeppelin• 9 years ago

Hotstar's (India's netflix) video player runs on Flash.

bdcravens4• 9 years ago

I know that DI.fm's web player requires it - it's the only thing I whitelist Flash for.

(though from my impression they have a pretty good dev team, so surely they're working on a replacement)

pzone2• 9 years ago

Artists and animators. Deviantart, Furaffinity.

ash_gti• 9 years ago

I wonder what the major use cases are for Flash Player these days?

I assume some of the 'Farm Ville' style web games are probably in Flash still these days.

hornbaker• 9 years ago

A metric TON of them are.

whatever_dude5• 9 years ago

Lots of games, but that's about it.

Will_Parker• 9 years ago

It was a path to programming for a lot of artistic minded kids who enjoy learning things on their own. They could start by slowly adding programming to animations until it became a game they could share with their friends. A lot of these people grew up into development jobs. I think if the barrier to learning was picking up ES6 and React or Unity before being able to make a functional game, a lot of them would not have gotten started.

This is not a small thing.

xanderstrike2• 9 years ago

Wrong. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Flash_animated_televis...

Flash is one of the best workflows for animators ever. This is equivalent to Photoshop being EOL'd because Apple doesn't like the pictures you can make with it.

Dolores12• 9 years ago

legacy games & apps

LeoNatan25• 9 years ago

A lot of advertisement on porn sites is still Flash. Will anybody think of the children?

gothroach3• 9 years ago

VMware vCenter's Web UI by default runs in Flash, even on the newest vCenter 6.5. There's an option for an HTML5 interface, but it's not feature-complete and is far buggier and laggier than the already buggy Flash client. ESXi 6.5's web interface is HTML5, and it appears to have a lot of common codebase with vCenter's HTML5 interface, but is far more mature and accessible. I hope that this gives VMware the kick in the pants to finally lose the Flash vCenter client and finish up the HTML5 version.

empath75• 9 years ago

Just a couple of years ago, someone from EMC came to our data storage team and proudly announced their brand new interface, written in Flash. I laughed in his face when he said that.

I guess it's a step up from java?

wvenable• 9 years ago

Be nice if they just went back to desktop client; it was better in every way.

touristtam• 9 years ago

An awfull lot of UI component in desktop and mobile application seems to be using flash under the hood, and yes that is including games as well, but not just the "farm ville" type (world of tanks is a prime example).

syshum2• 9 years ago

Vmware, ADP, and Several Other very large Enterprise Vendors use Flash, Infact some of them just made a transitions from Java to Flash after Java announced the EOL of Web Browser Applets.

0xffff22• 9 years ago

HBO Now is still using a (terrible) Flash-based player.

stevenjgarner• 9 years ago

Surely they're not alone. Aren't many media/news/entertainment companies in the same boat? e.g. go.cnn.com

damontal• 9 years ago

Filmstruck uses it

samsonradu• 9 years ago

Low-latency live streaming and video conferencing on the web.

TremendousJudge2• 9 years ago

spotify web uses flash

Zopieux• 9 years ago

No, it has been using EME[1] (eg. Google Widevine in Chrome) for a few months now.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Encrypted_Media_Extensions

xanderstrike2• 9 years ago

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Flash_animated_televis...

Tons of animators still use Flash, the tools are by far the best and easiest for making animated and interactive content. It used to also have an awesome publishing path, but Apple killed that off. All the animators I know still work with it, but record the flash animations as videos and post 'em on youtube.

qrbLPHiKpiux• 9 years ago

Good.

seanalltogether2• 9 years ago

will be phased out by the end of 2020. At that point, Adobe will stop updating and distributing Flash.

Adobes stance on backwards compatibility in Flash has always been "Don't break the web". Where does this leave all the existing flash content that still exists around the web after 2020? As far as I know, those JS emulators are way to slow for most content.

SkyMarshal• 9 years ago

I assume they're giving everyone 2.5yrs advanced notice to port anything considered important to something else.

gpawl3• 9 years ago

Meanwhile, DOS programs from 1986 still run in DOSBox.

azinman2• 9 years ago

Important to what? Individuals? Digital historians? Those concerned with abandonware? Companies that want people to pay for new porting work?

The majority of content that is still in flash and active use probably won’t get ported... the iPhone 10 years ago set that trend.

Simon_says• 9 years ago

Where does this leave all the existing flash content that still exists around the web after 2020?

Hopefully in their quieter moments they'll be reflecting on the wisdom of building on top of closed-source systems.

gumby2• 9 years ago

Adobes stance on backwards compatibility in Flash has always been "Don't break the web".

Flash wasn't the web. Opaque, unsearchable blobs break the web. Screwing around with controls etc break the web.

Adobe's hope was to replace the open web.

TremendousJudge2• 9 years ago

good thing we nipped that one in the bud, and now we are not embracing another opaque, unsearchable mangle of blobs as the next new thing

sigjuice• 9 years ago

If another program runs in a rectangle in your browser, it should not be called "the web".

michaelmior• 9 years ago

I don't know anything about the state of JS emulators, but I'd imagine three years of hardware and software advancements will go a long way to making this feasible.

niutech2• 9 years ago

Don't worry, you will still be able to run SWF files after 2020 using the latest Flash Player Standalone Projector, Swiff Player, iSwiffy, Eltima SWF Player, Gnash, etc.

cpncrunch3• 9 years ago

What about Adobe Connect? They have been talking about moving to HTML5 for years, but nothing seems to happen. Then recently they announce that if you don't have Flash you can instead download an executable:

https://blogs.adobe.com/adobeconnect/2016/02/add-in.html

Could this be the end of AC, or will they pull something out of a hat at the last minute?

vecinu• 9 years ago

Connect is not going to die, is my understanding.

cpncrunch3• 9 years ago

Two options seem to be:

- go to a downloadable .exe

- move to HTML5

They appear to be moving towards the .exe path at the moment, which seems like a bad idea.

methodover• 9 years ago

I say this every time someone brings up Flash's failure, but ... It's a tragic failure on Adobe's part. The tools for 2D animations and games in Flash are far beyond anything else out there from a creative standpoint. There isn't a product on the market that comes even close. Everything now is too technical, too specialized.

There are lots and lots of artists and developers out there who learned Flash's toolset and got good at it -- and now all that knowledge is useless. And there aren't even better tools to replace it.

It could have been different. Too bad they let it fail.

yoz-y• 9 years ago

I wonder how hard would it be to recreate the Flash (application) for HTML5 webgl and JavaScript. I know that there are some converters and so on but from I gather the creator was what made flash easy to use. I see very few HTML5 games out there though. Maybe one of the drivers is that flash games were a single file that could be moved around easily?

whatever_dude5• 9 years ago

Much like Unity today, one of the drivers of Flash popularity was that you could hack something together pretty quickly in a single interface. Throw a bunch of elements onto the "stage", add some scripting, and you're done.

In reality, though, serious applications or games seldom used the Flash IDE other than for designing/managing assets and packaging them (and sometimes not even for that). It was pretty bad in many ways for serious work. I used to create fully animated Flash websites and my work was 100% using FDT (an Eclipse plugin) and the external compiler (Flex SDK). It was way more sustainable.

Stripping the Flash IDE itself (or whatever it's called today) down to the animation essentials and allowing it to export in a number of formats (SVG, GIF, etc) would be the best thing for the app. Not sure it's the direction they're going, however.

seanalltogether2• 9 years ago

Flash/Flex had amazing tooling. I still pop open Flash from time to time to make animated gifs. For building custom interfaces, Flex was way better then what iOS and Android currently provide.

maxxxxx• 9 years ago

I haven't worked with Flex that much but from what I remember their tooling was pretty nice. I think if they had rendered HTML instead of flash applets they could have done something better than whatever a lot of the modern JS frameworks are.

petre• 9 years ago

And there aren't even better tools to replace it.

Haxe? http://haxe.org/

Nav_Panel• 9 years ago

This seems to have very little to do with "tools for 2D animations and games". For starters, it seems to be a "toolkit" and the first example is a piece of code.

In Flash, you can open up the program and make an animation without knowing any code whatsoever. I can guarantee a site like Newgrounds would never have existed if all those teenage flash animators needed to understand object-oriented programming paradigms first.

Drakim• 9 years ago

Haxe is an awesome programming language, but that's not really what he was talking about:

The tools for 2D animations and games

pier253• 9 years ago

I think Haxe (the language) is awesome, but the toolkit as a whole has too many moving pieces.

I tried to do some stuff with OpenFL back in 2014, and sometimes the problem was in the C++ backend, sometimes in OpenFL, sometimes in Lime...

It sounds nice on paper: write in Haxe and the magic will convert it to any target, but when each piece of a build chain that sustains the toolkit is maintained and developed independently (sometimes by a single dev) you really don't have assurances about long term support.

threeseed• 9 years ago

They should've open sourced it and invested heavily in security, stability and performance.

People blamed Apple back in the day for not including it on iOS but given that how many critical bugs have been found in the time since then you can't blame them.

rocky11383• 9 years ago

They still have time. There's nothing stopping them from doing this. It would certainly help archival efforts and benefit people who do animations.

problems• 9 years ago

If they would have open sourced flash player I think we'd be in a much different place today. Not like they'd lose any ground on their actual profit center - the Flash animation tool and development environment, which is still seriously something fairly unique.

Maybe they can still reach that state if they invest serious effort in making their tool able to export HTML5.

mstade• 9 years ago

Someone from Adobe once told me the main reason holding back open sourcing the player was licensing. Apparently the player consists of quite a bit of licensed technology that Adobe obviously couldn't open up, and some of these are so core to the player that refactoring it wouldn't really be feasible or not really worth doing. Rewriting it to not use these technologies or use them in such a way that they could be plugged in with alternatives would be too expensive and for little apparent business gain.

I paraphrase of course and I can't really vouch for the veracity of these claims, but I'm hoping someone with first hand information might be able to corroborate or deny. Sounds plausible to me.

djsumdog• 9 years ago

A lot went downhill after Adobe bought Macromedia. Flash use to be light weight, small and incredibly good for displaying vector graphics. You can scale up older Flash content to 1080p and it still looks great. You can't do that with YouTube videos of older flash content.

Many animation studios still use Flash .. to make their YouTube videos.

It ran on three platforms (Mac, Linux, Win) and was a much better portable web app platform than Java applets.

Sure a lot of newer stuff uses cool Javascript frameworks for making games and vector graphics, but there are a lot of old games people won't be able to play anymore. There's a lot we'll lose once Flash goes away forever, in a way that can't be archived like old Geocities pages (unless someone makes a Flash player in Javascript O_o)

zwily• 9 years ago

Looks dead, but https://github.com/tobytailor/gordon

wlesieutre4• 9 years ago

I don't know about Linux, but back when Flash was relevant the Mac version always felt like an inefficient crashy dumpster fire to me. I don't have a source to back this up, but I always assumed that was a big part of why Jobs was so uninterested in supporting it on iOS.

sillysaurus3• 9 years ago

There's a lot we'll lose once Flash goes away forever, in a way that can't be archived like old Geocities pages (unless someone makes a Flash player in Javascript O_o)

Looks like it's possible:

https://github.com/mozilla/shumway

http://mozilla.github.io/shumway/examples/inspector/inspecto...

ikreymer• 9 years ago

Webrecorder supports remote browsers that allow you to run older browsers pre-configured with Flash, as well as Java applets.

http://rhizome.org/editorial/2016/oct/25/rhizome-releases-ma...

Example: Record Flash: https://webrecorder.io/_new/temp/flash-example/record/$br:ch...

An archived Java applet: https://webrecorder.io/demo/java/20170505193641$br:firefox:4...

In this mode, the browsers run remotely and stream the video to your browser. We are still working on the audio support but hope to have audio support soon. It should be possible to archive Flash in this way, though we could use more help/research in this area.

Once the last version of Flash is released, we'll include the latest browsers that can run it.

If the Mozilla Shumway project or similar picks up again (we hope), Webrecorder can integrate that as well to offer a native JS based Flash-recording and replay.

If anyone is interesting in helping out, let us know!

tracker16• 9 years ago

I remember Flash under Macromedia... I also started disabling it after I found out that you could access the local file system through some hacks. Actually had to do this for storing state on a project (around 2002 iirc).

I agree that it's great for 2-d animation, one of the best tools around, and why it's still used for education/training. Flex/Flash Builder also wasn't bad at all, and AS3, while verbose was interesting. Having XML as a first class citizen at the time was nice, and paired really well with VB.Net on the server, where XML is also first class.

There are a couple Flash players in JS... I do hope that Adobe opens the format up so a lot of the stuff made in flash can be preserved... the content itself was so much smaller than video files, and the interactions are much harder to setup and match using JS alone. I'm actually a little sad when I see converted flash animations to video (youtube) only because the originals were significantly smaller, without all the noise compared to video.

When Adobe bought Macromedia, my hope at the time was that the output format would evolve into straight, browser runnable JS, vector, movie and audio assets in a zip file with a manifest. So that the actual container format could be built into and supported by browsers directly. Where Adobe could concentrate on the tooling, which is where they made their money anyway.

The funny thing is, I thought Silverlight was FAR closer to what I'd wanted Flash to be, but there was just no way it would take hold, as the tooling was nothing close to Flash.

solidr53• 9 years ago

Yes, Jones in the Fast Lane!!!

http://home.broadpark.no/~kboye/jones/jones.html

intoverflow23• 9 years ago

A lot went downhill after Adobe bought Macromedia

Still annoyed Fireworks was killed, it was pretty much the feature set of Sketch and more with a decade of work behind it. Then they killed it and are now left scrambling to replicate Sketch not realising they already had it and lost it.

cpeterso• 9 years ago

Flash also made distribution very easy: all the code and assets could be bundled in one compressed SWF file. Now we have lots of js files that are minimized and bundled and other loose asset files.

ivm3• 9 years ago

And the size was great – we were keeping many games with art, animations, music, and effects under 1.5 megabytes.

pzone2• 9 years ago

This is the biggest letdown of Flash being discontinued. How can an artist distribute interactives as a single file now? How can a gallery site host user-uploaded interactive animations without allowing its users a platform to inject arbitrary javascript? (At least .swf provides an attempt at sandboxing.)

simion31411• 9 years ago

And AS3/FLex is still better then JS/and any JS framework

pier253• 9 years ago

Amen.

AS3 is one of the best languages I've ever used. Easy to use, dynamic but also statically typed when you want it with many of features from Java and C# which still aren't available in JS.

I wrote this a couple of months back: https://medium.com/@Pier/ecmascript-4-was-too-ahead-of-its-t...

whatever_dude5• 9 years ago

Not sure I agree. If you use some of the good transpiling languages that output JS, the syntax is far better than what AS3 had. In TypeScript/Flow, for example, you get "real" generics syntax while in AS3 you had the magic Vector<> stuff and that's it. And on top of that you have union types, dynamic interfaces, etc.

And thanks to JavaScript VM performance, running the same code is ahead of what the Flash VM could do.

AS3 was way ahead of its time when introduced, but browsers have moved past it since it stopped evolving.

Flex vs frameworks is more of a matter of preference and contextual requirements so I can't comment on that.

disease• 9 years ago

Flex had some good ideas but many things made it a pretty bad experience to work with: Adobe abandoning WYSIWYG editing in Flash Builder, having two ways to do everything (XML and code) made things more confusing than it had to be, and the official components from Adobe generally weren't very good. I much prefer building by own in React.

AS3 was awesome for its time but TypeScript has surpassed it in my opinion.

After building up components directly in the language with React there's no way I could go back to using Flex.

thebouv3• 9 years ago

I soooooooo miss AS3/Flex. :(

Joeri4• 9 years ago

I worked extensively with flex, and I think you give it too much credit. Typescript beats AS3, and modern complete frameworks like angular or ember are just as good as flex.

sireat• 9 years ago

It almost feels like we have regressed.

Making simple CRUD SPAs using HTML5/CSS3/JS/whatever frameworks is way more complicated than using AS3 to do the same thing.

It all feels like a giant kludge.

What have we gained by going into using modern web stack to make application like pages?

Perhaps source is shared more freely and code is more "open", but as the React licensing ruckus shows that is not clear cut.

We have certainly not gained more consistency over AS3.

There really wasn't anything wrong with the idea of flash compiler doing the heavy lifting for app like pages.

omg_ketchup6• 9 years ago

I LOVE VueJS. But you're right- nowhere near as easy as Flex Builder with AS3.

I built an app with Flex Builder that got me my first job. The application is still in heavy use every day, and I've never even once had someone report that something went wrong with it.

GuiA• 9 years ago

Not uncommon for these kind of giant step backwards in the world of computing.

I was in a plane the other day sitting next to an elderly gentleman who saw me using Apple products. He then proceeded to tell me how he's been on mac since 1984, and absolutely loved Apple products before, but now he's stuck on OS X 10.6 because it's the last version that supports AppleWorks, a tool he's been using for over 20 years. No currently supported tool gives him the flexibility and power he had with Apple Works - embedding multiple documents of different types (spreadsheet, word processing, etc) within one another, not to mention the thousands of AppleWorks documents he's accumulated over the years. However, most websites and new products don't work on 10.6, so he has another modern computer just for browsing the web. (George R R Martin similarly has an old computer sitting around just to use his favorite 20 year old word processor of choice)

Flash is similar - I have animator friends who maintain an old copy of Windows XP because they love Flash's interface and no other tool comes close.

The news yesterday about MSPaint potentially going away (I think MS back pedaled on it?) falls in the same category - powerful tools that pretty much can't be improved upon that get randomly EoL'd.

Another thing that happens pretty often - tools randomly losing functionality in an update because the developer felt that it should be removed for whatever reason.

Maybe there would be a niche for a minimal Linux distro that comes with a set of powerful, minimalistic creation tools (office documents, multimedia manipulation + viewing, etc - whatever covers the computing needs of 90% of the population) that gets updated with security updates etc but has 1) backwards compatibility and 2) a user interface that mostly never changes as primary goals.

ianai• 9 years ago

You can chalk that up to a market failure. Those products you mentioned all "won" the market and enjoyed monopolistic power. Had the economy allowed for more variety then their EOLs wouldn't be fragmenting.

felideon• 9 years ago

tools randomly losing functionality in an update because the developer felt that it should be removed for whatever reason.

More likely a Product Manager, rather than a developer, prioritizing certain "core" features in a rewrite/redesign to align with the product/corporate strategy better.

(Unless you meant "developer" in the very generic sense, or an indie developer.)

justinsaccount• 9 years ago

MSPaint potentially going away (I think MS back pedaled on it?) falls in the same category - powerful tools that pretty much can't be improved upon

MSPaint is a powerful tool? Do you also consider notepad a powerful editor?

zippergz• 9 years ago

My experience is that the "whatever reason" to remove features is that they're a pain to maintain (often in ways that aren't obvious to the end user) and only a tiny number of people use them. It sucks for the people who do use them (and believe me, I have been in that position myself), but it also sucks to not have new development happen because all of the resources are being consumed maintaining something that 10 people care about.

akoncius• 9 years ago

main reason why products are discontinued usually is that it's not worth for company to maintain old product if user base is small or decreasing and product is not profitable anymore. Even if company is not actively developing new features in that software, still it requires maintenance - fixing bugs, updating libraries to keep it working with new OSes and so on, and it has a huge cost, assuming that there are big teams dedicated to products.

Also sometimes vision changes for whole company and existing products does not fit that vision anymore and company decides to kill it.

Regarding "never changing" software idea: it inherently is doomed because by default user base will be shrinking - majority of people would move on newer (with better features) software and only handful of users would continue using old "not changing" software. It's jut not worth it, and is too small niche.

dalbasal2• 9 years ago

Failure is a bit strong, IMO. Flash played a role, and now it is done.

Meanwhile, it was (as you say) years ahead of standards and the most ubiquitous non-standard standard on the web. In early years it let web designers expirement. Most of those expirements went badly, but many ulitmately preceded and shaped the web of the "future."

Animated interactive UIs, video, audio, rounded corners.... These appeared as flash first and challenged html+ to keep up (with the better parts).

We've all been talking s--t about flash for years. But ultimately it was in use because it was useful and the web may have turned out worse without it.

On tools, this is inevitable. Tools don't last forever and professional these days need to retool periodically. As flash exits left, there is room for new entrants into the 'tools for ex-flash designers' segment.

baby5• 9 years ago

rounded corners

I don't see this as being a flash thing. You could do that in paint, photoshop or fireworks or ...

Someone2• 9 years ago

"rounded corners.... These appeared as flash first"

I doubt it. The Mac had rounded corners in may 1981 (https://www.folklore.org/StoryView.py?story=Round_Rects_Are_...), and the OS had windows with rounded corners when it shipped in 1984 (for an example, look at the calculator in https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Calculator_(Mac_OS)#History)

thousande2• 9 years ago

I guess it played a role in getting html5/css3/web-standards features up to speed

The Adobe Flex thing had lot of css3 features early. Funny to see how 'easy' it is to release specs and implementation when you are the sole owner of the tech

BLanen• 9 years ago

Adobe now has "Adobe Animate" though.

TheCoreh• 9 years ago

Yeah, the Flash creation tools will remain in development, simply rebranded as "Animate". The plugin is no longer needed, since Animate can export to HTML/JS/SVG or to video files. This is by far the best outcome: We get to keep the awesome creation tools, but it exports on free/open formats.

ovulator• 9 years ago

It was also a scapegoat as a conduit for obnoxious ads. Nothing about the technology made ads worse, the technology was easy to use so people used it.

Ads are as shitty as ever in HTML5.

laumars• 9 years ago

You need to remember that at the time HTML5 wasn't around so if a developer wanted something more "multimedia" then it meant resorting to Flash. This meant that Flash ads had a lot of annoying traits like audio effect which you wouldn't get with HTML+JPEG/GIF ads.

Plus even back then Flash had a tendency to grind modest hardware to a halt (particularly if you were running OS X or Linux).

So Flash definitely made ads worse. However whether you want to blame Flash or the developers for that is really just a philisophical question. But suffice to say the most annoying adverts around that time wouldn't have been possible without Flash.

emehrkay• 9 years ago

I agree with you. Before working with flash I scoffed at it, but after I realized just how good the IDE was/is. Just how good the resulting executable were (without the browser). Everything that HTML5/CSS3 is trying to be, Flash has been for years. Yeah it is closed and buggy, but it filled a gap that pushed the web forward. And having to learn AS3 allowed me to easily get into the newer JS stuff later

kbenson6• 9 years ago

You know, it's pretty easy to make a fast, responsive fun car to drive if you ignore all the safety precautions required to make it street legal. As a bonus, when all you have is a steel tubing chassis and no body panels, working on the car and adding new components is really easy. That doesn't mean we should all drive that type of car, or allow them on the public roads.

tareqak• 9 years ago

Why can't they make Flash better and open like other people did with JavaScript? e.g. emScripten, WebAssembly, and WebGL

I left this question intentionally vague / and possibly wrong in order to give the person responding some leeway and the opportunity to dispel some myths that people might have about JavaScript technologies and the history of both JavaScript and Flash e.g. me.

reboog7116• 9 years ago

Flash player, by definition, is a browser plugin. Most browsers are closing [or have closed] their plugin APIs so this makes sense.

I assume the Adobe AIR will live on, which is basically "Flash Player for Desktop and Mobile Apps".

talmand• 9 years ago

No, the animation tools live on in Adobe Animate. The announcement concerns the Flash Player.

notatoad• 9 years ago

The tools still exist as "Adobe Animate CC". It exports HTML5 and video files now instead of *.swf.

This is only the death of the player software, not the toolkit.

fragsworth• 9 years ago

Adobe's marketing team dropped the ball on this one, and now it seems like there's a ton of FUD about what they're doing.

In 2020 the Flash player shouldn't be needed any more, because HTML5 will hopefully be good enough in every browser by that point. All the rest of their tools are still going to be useful.

Why they didn't make this clear to everyone just baffles me.

egypturnash2• 9 years ago

So hi, I made a living doing Flash animation and development around 2000-2007. I don't do it any more, I draw comics now, but I still keep the Flash editor installed just in case I need to scratch the itch to make something move.

The SWF format, and the plugin that plays it, is going away.

The program that started life as FutureSplash Animator, and became Macromedia Flash, then Adobe Flash, is not going away. It got rebranded as Adobe Animate last year.

Animators working on stuff for Youtube or TV probably haven't touched a .SWF in years. You export a .MOV and post that to Youtube. Or you drop it in a video editor along with the .MOVs of all your other scenes for this project. The Los Angeles TV animation industry still uses Flash for some projects; check out https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Flash_animated_televis... sometime, you'll probably recognize a few shows you or your friends love.

If you're using it to make interactive content? You can export to HTML5 now. And to WebGL and WebAssembly. I haven't ever done that myself, I dunno how much hassle it is to convert an old Actionscript/.SWF project to those platforms. I would assume that the 'Animate' rebranding coincided with Adobe feeling that the HTML5 capabilities for interaction were on par with .SWF's; they've been working on that ever since Jobs refused to let the Flash plugin onto iThings.

.SWF is dead, and good riddance. Its plugin was a CPU-hogging binary blob that needed regular updates. It was amazing back in 2000 when it was all we had; it's a lot less amazing now.

The program that compiled a bunch of art and code into .SWF files will live on. The penultimate sentence of Adobe's press release? "...we’ll continue to provide best in class animation and video tools such as Animate CC...". The tool ain't going nowhere. The tool's just distancing itself from its now-much-loathed first export format.

But I would bet money that Animate's file format - the .PSD to its Photoshop - is gonna continue to be called .FLA for the next ten years.

striking• 9 years ago

You can use this handy tool to convert your SWFs to transparent MOVs without importing to Adobe Animate/Flash: https://github.com/AaronShea/Silkscreen

You won't get audio from it, but a lot of other stuff works.

prodikl• 9 years ago

yeah i think people forget (or just don't know) that flash became animate. Most of the "html5" animations we see are made in animate. so in a way, it's all still in the same family and toolset, just the delivery format has changed

that said, i'm really curious as to what's going to happen to actionscript. Starling really ran with that and it's an otherwise really nice language (as3, that is). i'm glad they open sourced it and I hope it still gets developed.

i also hope they keep developing and supporting AIR

mikestew• 9 years ago

There are lots and lots of artists and developers out there who learned Flash's toolset and got good at it -- and now all that knowledge is useless.

One can say that about a lot of things. FoxPro made me a good living for probably 6-7 years, and it got me in the door at Microsoft. I would also argue that for creating a data-centric LOB application, there are not better tools to replace it (even to this day). But times changes, technology moves on, yada, yada. Now I do other stuff with other tools. I miss that little smirking fox logo, I miss slapping together a CRUD app in no time at all, but FP had it's shortcomings, too, so I try not to get too nostalgic about how it was better in the old days.

As for Flash, well, I try to stay away from web dev, but I won't miss it taking down my browser on a regular basis. In fact, I miss it so little that I haven't had Flash installed on a machine in years (and promptly rip it right the hell off there if a client's policy sticks it on the machine they hand me).

zackbrown2• 9 years ago

The tools ... in Flash are far beyond anything else out there from a creative standpoint.

Very much this. The next-closest tech, HTML5, offers the same multimedia capabilities and runtime ubiquity as Flash— but no native tooling for designers/animators.

Instead, every design and interaction must be funneled from design tool through code, handed off from designer-brain to engineer-brain, across each and every iteration. Productivity and creative expression are a couple of the casualties of this "hand-off" workflow.

There isn't a product on the market that comes even close.

Have you seen Haiku? https://haiku.ai (I'm on the Haiku team.) We're young but we've got some funding, a functional product, and some big-brand early users. We're going squarely after "modern Flash without the plugin," integrated deeply with modern design/dev tools & workflows.

It's a hard problem we're tackling, and we've still got some work ahead of us—but each of us on the team believes so strongly in the need for a solution (as you outlined here) that we're doing something about it.

shmerl2• 9 years ago

No one stopped Adobe from open sourcing those tools, and making them produce JavaScript / WebAssembly instead of Flash.

greggman• 9 years ago

I don't have any numbers but my impression is the number of people making games in unity dwarfs the number of people who ever made games in flash. it's ridiculously easy now. any coffee shop I visit I see several people in unity.

exodust5• 9 years ago

Yet try to find Unity games on the web to play right now, and you won't find many, and oh look you need to download a plugin to play them.

chiefalchemist• 9 years ago

I'm not so sure Adobe failed. It was ahead of it's time, and the slowly but surely the market caught up. And then Jobs put the nail in the coffin.

Some technologies are meant to come, leave their mark, and then go. That's just the way it is sometimes. But that doesn't mean Adobe failed.

AaronMT• 9 years ago

How is Shumway doing?

phonon• 9 years ago

More like "How is Mortar Project" doing? :-(

https://wiki.mozilla.org/Mortar_Project

camus23• 9 years ago

Shumway isn't maintained actively.

bsmedberg3• 9 years ago

Shumway is not under active development. The actionscript runtime itself is pretty good, but getting compatibility with the Flash API surface turned out to be practically unachievable.

yoodenvranx• 9 years ago

Is there any attempt to save all the classic Flash animations and games like they did with old arcade games? Any "emulators" which can be used to preserve them?

donpdonp• 9 years ago

The GNU Project wrote a version of Flash. That might be helpful in the preservation of flash animations. https://www.gnu.org/software/gnash/

ekianjo2• 9 years ago

there is gnash on Linux.

BenjiWiebe2• 9 years ago

I've used it in the past. It works, sometimes. I wonder if it is still actively developed?

larsiusprime3• 9 years ago

There are a lot of serious attempts underway, I've been involved with some of those discussions.

Nothing perfect and turn key exists at the moment, but all the necessary pieces are basically there.

It depends on what sort of preservation strategy you're going after.

1) "Emulation" style:

-- Open source flash player (a la Shumway)

2) "Automated Conversion" style:

-- Load-time conversion to a different format (ie, HTML5)-- Ahead-of-time conversion to a different format

3) Convert by hand

-- Rewrite in JS/HTML5

-- Rewrite in Haxe using a library like OpenFL (Haxe compiles to JS/HTML5, C++, also Flash)

There's a lot of options available, and a lot of useful primitives. Parsing and rendering Flash (SWF) content is basically solved (OpenFL has made particular strong strides in this area, Shumway is impressive too).

The really big missing piece is ActionScript execution. There are in fact various open source ActionScript VM's out there, and there are ways to parse ABC (Action Script Byte Code) and convert it -- either ahead of time or at load-time -- to something else, whether that's directly to JS, or something like Haxe (which then compiles it to JS or C++ or whatever), but to my knowledge nobody has a working solution that as of today combines Rendering + ActionScript Execution + RigorouslyTestedConvenientUX.

But all the pieces are there. You just need someone motivated enough and well funded enough to put it all together. Hopefully this news spurs that fire.

colanderman4• 9 years ago

There's nothing stopping you from just running Flash itself… even in a Windows XP VM if necessary.

mbebenita2• 9 years ago

ActionScript3 (or AVM2) is fairly well documented and Shumway did a fairly good job executing ABC files, I think we got to like 99%+ compatibility on the reference tests. Getting Rendering + Timeline + Library working correctly, ... that's another story. You have to bug-for-bug compatible AND do different things for different versions of SWF and AVM versions. If anyone needs a decent emulation of AVM2 bytecode, Shumway has a pretty good one in there.

zwetan4• 9 years ago

I have seen experiment who took the code base of Redtamarin (based on AVM2 sources)

https://github.com/Corsaair/redtamarin

and added native implementations to render UI with OpenGL API, QT API, etc.

Now, even if it is technically feasible it is not like providing a plugin for the browsers, so that would be mainly to target desktop GUI apps which Adobe AIR is already doing very well.

As for converting the whole Flash API to HTML5/JS, some parts could be done but many parts would be missing or would be impossible to port because the Browser API can not support some of those, TCP/UDP sockets for example (possible with chrome non-standard API but then does not work everywhere).

niutech2• 9 years ago

No need for converting existing SWF files - you will be able to play them after 2020 using the Flash Player Standalone Projector or Swiff Player.

fuball63• 9 years ago

I seem to recall there was a way to play .swf files without a browser. It might be cool to see a standalone flash player, maybe a little like the Electron framework.

tekromancr• 9 years ago

Isn't that what Adobe Air was? http://www.adobe.com/products/air.html

jle172• 9 years ago

The flash player itself can be launched standalone. On Linux Adobe provides a separate archive with a flashplayer executable that launches it without a browser : https://fpdownload.macromedia.com/pub/flashplayer/updaters/2...

I recall seeing it on Windows too.

hansjorg• 9 years ago

There are several open source player implementations, but they're quite incomplete so far:

  * Lightspark http://lightspark.github.io/
  * Shumway http://mozilla.github.io/shumway/
  * Gnash https://www.gnu.org/software/gnash/

evincarofautumn2• 9 years ago

I used to work at a company called Spaceport.io (now defunct) where we had a nearly complete implementation. It included an impressive GPU-accelerated renderer and an optimising compiler from AS3 to JavaScript—we could run on mobile, desktop, and even WebGL, and do neat things like update over WiFi instead of USB during development.

It was intended for Flash game development, and worked pretty well for that purpose. Unfortunately, we spent a lot of time dealing with large customers who wanted to use it to port existing Flash games to mobile, which was basically a neverending treadmill of having to implement obscure features that they didn’t even know they were relying on. :/

Parts of it have been open-sourced, but I wish the parent company would just release the whole thing. Last I knew, there was one guy maintaining it for one customer after the main engineers were acquihired.

shmerl2• 9 years ago

There was a good attempt (Mozilla Shumway), but Mozilla for some reason dropped it. I guess it was too resource draining, and wasn't their core priority.

jasonkostempski• 9 years ago

Aren't there standalone flash player desktop applications?

reboog7116• 9 years ago

It's called Adobe AIR and can also deploy to iOS and Android devices.

ConfucianNardin2• 9 years ago

It's called Flash Player projector, available from here: http://www.adobe.com/support/flashplayer/debug_downloads.htm...

rb2k_• 9 years ago

From what I recall there were quite a few, most of them discontinued: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adobe_Wallaby https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shumway_(software) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Google_Swiffy

There's also https://github.com/tobytailor/gordon/wiki

I guess most of them are more or less dead :-/

rodorgas• 9 years ago

How come? It will stop receiving updates, not end.

colanderman4• 9 years ago

Arcade emulators emulate the arcade hardware itself, not any bytecode which the arcade games may be written in (such as the TI-99/4's GPL [1]). For preservation purposes, it is likely that Flash is preserved likewise (by emulating the PC platform, rather than Flash bytecode). This is the easiest way to ensure exact reproduction of the original execution.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Texas_Instruments_TI-99/4A#VDP...

kfk• 9 years ago

I had my 10 seconds of panic today with this title as I misread Flash into Flask. Anywy, now I that I know it's Flash I am perfectly fine.

tandav• 9 years ago

It was EOL in 2010

marban• 9 years ago

Thumbs up if you have jaw-dropping memories of this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9Y-ESJS911c

Bahamut• 9 years ago

I wonder how long will browsers keep Flash around though? I doubt sites like Homestar Runner will just convert everything to HTML/CSS/JS.

geofft• 9 years ago

New episodes of Homestar Runner are already being distributed as normal videos, e.g., https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L0nuQ5o2DYU (which is incidentally about the death of Flash)

gpawl3• 9 years ago

Videos aren't interactive. Homestar Runner animations were interactive.

bsmedberg3• 9 years ago

All of the browsers have published roadmap updates. Basically Flash will be disabled by default in mid-2019:

Firefox: https://blog.mozilla.org/futurereleases/2017/07/25/firefox-r... and https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Plugins/Roadmap Google: https://www.blog.google/products/chrome/saying-goodbye-flash... and https://sites.google.com/a/chromium.org/dev/flash-roadmap Microsoft (Edge+IE): https://blogs.windows.com/msedgedev/2017/07/25/flash-on-wind...

eridius7• 9 years ago

That's not "all of the browsers", that's just most of them.

samstave• 9 years ago

heh -- I read that as "Flash memory will be EOL by 2020"

msla• 9 years ago

There seems to be more discussion here:

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14848840

asavadatti• 9 years ago

I remember the Nike website being all flash even as late as 2009-2010. I'm glad this abomination is finally done with

hprotagonist• 9 years ago

I disabled flash on my browsers in 2014, and I have had to manually reenable it exactly twice in the last three years to get content I needed. Both times were for restaurant menus, of all things.

I have fond memories of newgrounds and the real early explosion of browser games, but I'm not going to miss the lag, memory overhead, and security hell one iota.

theandrewbailey2• 9 years ago

Obligatory The Oatmeal: https://theoatmeal.com/comics/restaurant_website

Kenji2• 9 years ago

Hate flash however much you want. I learned to program with old ActionScript and wrote my first game as a kid (that actually taught me OOP and laid good foundations for JavaScript which is almost identical). To this day, all the applications I wrote still work perfectly. That's an achievement. Not to mention, Macromedia (later: Adobe) Flash was a fantastic environment for minigames and I haven't yet seen anything replace it properly. I weep for today's children, is there a good alternative? I mean, a program where you can scribble, make a movie clip out of it and make it move with code, just like that. And then publish it on the internet effortlessly.

camus23• 9 years ago

It was an incredible opportunity for programmers to work with graphic artists and sound designers.

It was the best years of my life as a programmer.

Flash was first and foremost a community where the goal was to further creativity with the "web" as a medium.

No thanks to Elop who "Eloped" Macromedia.

icebraining4• 9 years ago

Flash (the editor) wasn't killed, Adobe renamed it to Animate and now exports to other formats.

dandare2• 9 years ago

Same here. "I learned to program with old ActionScript and wrote my first game as a kid (that actually taught me OOP and laid good foundations for JavaScript which" ... was way inferior to AS3. AS3 was based on ECMAScript 4 that was later abandoned by JS vendors. Until TypeScript came along JS was horribly inferior to AS3.

I will be forever glad for AS3 and the Flash ecosystem.

Kenji2• 9 years ago

I started to learn AS3 but quickly transitioned to other technologies because even back then, the end of flash was forseeable. I liked AS3 but it was time to move on for a variety of reasons, among them a desire to have more control over hardware accelerated rendering and general performance concerns.

Fun fact: At university, a teaching assistant at "Introduction to programming" asked in which languages we've programmed before and I said ActionScript and he said that is not a programming language :)

edko• 9 years ago

Does anybody know if this includes Adobe Air? There is nothing said in the press release.

camus23• 9 years ago

This is Adobe's fault. They could have open-sourced the player anytime they wanted, they didn't. I don't blame Apple, or Flash-haters or anybody else but Adobe and all its stupid policies. Adobe killed Flash. Nobody else did.

theandrewbailey2• 9 years ago

I bet there's lots of third party tech in Flash that prevents them from open sourcing it.

givinguflac• 9 years ago

Good riddance.

LyalinDotCom• 9 years ago

As things like Flash and Silverlight due i can't help but think that there will be another one of these in-browser techs that is just bound to come back around. What's new is old and what's old is new :D

rocky11383• 9 years ago

Specifically, we will stop updating and distributing the Flash Player at the end of 2020 and encourage content creators to migrate any existing Flash content to these new open formats.

Why not open source it and make Flash the open format instead?

ivraatiems• 9 years ago

That'd encourage people to use flash, which is the opposite of what most everyone in web development (and possibly on the web, period) wants.

Eric_WVGG• 9 years ago

I wonder if protecting Adobe Air isn't another reason.

cookiecaper2• 9 years ago

There are a lot of bad things about Flash, but it still has not been adequately replaced. AFAIK there is nothing web-centric that comes close to the developer experience it offered.

Yes, things can be pieced together: animation programs and sprite exporters here, some custom scripting there, throw in your own tween, sound, and networking libraries, etc., but this is much less efficient than a unified write-once, run-anywhere platform with an integrated development environment for all aspects of the content, which is what Flash offered.

That meant that Flash didn't really do any one thing exceptionally well, but it provided a way to reason about the program as a cohesive whole, and from a very visual perspective. I think that opened doors for a lot of people and I think the simplicity made it a productive platform.

I am no Flash fanboy, but there is a reason it was so popular, and we're ignoring that with the HTML 5 platform, which ultimately just leaves an opening for a new Flash imitator (Unity is the leading candidate, though it hasn't really broached web in a major way yet), which means we will repeat this cycle over the next 20 years.

yellowapple2• 9 years ago

People mainly want Flash to die because it's a closed standard/platform that can't be improved by third parties and has lagged behind modern web standards as a result. Opening up Flash would address that problem and make the idea of Flash on a modern website significantly less horrid.

gumby2• 9 years ago

What a shame. Not installing flash used to be an excellent way of blocking shitty websites and annoying ads.

dave5104• 9 years ago

Anyone know of any command line tools available out there that can convert Flash assets to PNG assets? I have a large number of Flash assets that I will eventually need to (finally) convert over. Hoping there are some easy tools out there available.

jle172• 9 years ago

swfextract from the swftools package should be able to do it.

`swfextract file.swf` should list resources in it, then `swfextract -p 12 file.swf` will get the PNG with id 12.

whatever_dude5• 9 years ago

swf is just a generic container like a zip, so there's plenty of tools to actually extract the original resources from there (no "conversion" necessary, that is).

dalbasal2• 9 years ago

What an epic case study.

How hard it is to EOL anything. How non-standard standards can play a giant role. How important deign/dev tools can be. How hard it is to get designers to accept limits (there were all flash websites just for minor design capabilities)..

tete• 9 years ago

Yes and no. I agree that standards make things easier, but standards probably make it harder or at least not easier to really come to an EOL for dated technology.

See how browsers still have to support non CSS styling and similar.

What I meant with standards making it harder to EOL technologies is that a standard leads to more implementations, which is a good thing, but certainly not for EOLing a technology.

pier253• 9 years ago

The Flash player (which is really what's being killed here) was piece of crap, but the Flash ecosystem was amazing.

There is nothing today that offers a similar level of accessible crossplatform development like Adobe Air. Qt is the only thing that comes close.

Sadly Adobe decided to kill the Flash platform. I wrote a long rant here a couple of years back: https://medium.com/@Pier/why-im-finally-breaking-up-with-fla...

thebouv3• 9 years ago

Exactly! The type of stuff I built with Flex and Adobe Air was so great. I was able to solve so many problems that I just couldn't have (easily) without it. And for that brief moment when I could turn Flex code into iOS/Android apps? Awesome.

reboog7116• 9 years ago

You still can turn Flex and Adobe AIR code into iOS / Android app...

sashk• 9 years ago

Flash will die 10 years after this -- https://www.apple.com/hotnews/thoughts-on-flash/

make3• 9 years ago

I hadn't read this. The security and battery life arguments are the best imho. The last part about the apps make Apple look like they only want to protect their financial interests in a sort of sketchy monopolistic way.

yellowapple2• 9 years ago

Yeah, that last justification is one with which I wholeheartedly disagree. Cross-platform done right is a good thing, and yet here we have Apple explicitly describing how it wants app developers to not use cross-platform technologies and instead rely on Apple-specific interfaces. In other words: "screw developer productivity, if you're not exclusively targeting our platforms, you're doing it wrong".

menacingly• 9 years ago

It always made me feel like the open web is implicitly viewed as competition as well, but it's just not as palatable to the public to bash it

Joeri4• 9 years ago

The security argument was convincing.

The battery argument was weak and I'm sure Jobs knew. Video was a significant chunk of flash's use case, but not the only part, and flash was much more battery efficient than HTML5 at all the other stuff it did. Even today you can't do buttery smooth flash-style animations in javascript without some major hacks (like using webgl). Even simple effects like full-screen fade-in that flash could handle on a pentium can't be done smoothly at all in CSS.

melling4• 9 years ago

Here's Jobs commenting on this:

https://youtu.be/EMXwa9EtehE

bdcravens4• 9 years ago

Worth noting that Adobe stopped distributing Flash Player for Android in 2012, and final update was in 2013.

amyjess2• 9 years ago

As much as I want people to stop using Flash for new projects, I'm worried what this means for preservation. There are a lot of old Flash games and other stuff out there that has never been ported to HTML5 and have been abandoned by their creators. A decade from now, we're probably going to need to run an old OS in a VM just to run this old content.

We're at risk of a digital dark age already, and this is just going to make it worse.

andrioni• 9 years ago

It's actually pretty weird that would stop distributing it, especially since they still distribute a Shockwave Player, and well, Shockwave has been completely dead for long time now.

amyjess2• 9 years ago

Even if they continue distributing it, newer operating systems and browsers may not be able to run it.

xeeeeeeeeeeenu• 9 years ago

Shockwave Player is still supported. The latest version was released ~40 days ago[1]

[1] https://helpx.adobe.com/shockwave/release-note/release-notes...

pera• 9 years ago

I don't know if Adobe is planning to open source Flash, but there is GNU Gnash: https://www.gnu.org/software/gnash/

nileshtrivedi• 9 years ago

It's an expensive lesson to the society, not to rely on proprietary software for content creation. If we are willing to pay heed to it.

Now let me go back to my open-source community discussions in Slack. ;-)

criddell• 9 years ago

A decade from now, we're probably going to need to run an old OS in a VM just to run this old content.

What's wrong with that? Because that path is open, I think Flash games have a much better chance of preservation than most SAAS-projects being developed today.

amitt2• 9 years ago

End of an era.

We built the FarmVille-engine using AS3 and I still think it's one of the best programming languages I've ever used. Static typing, access modifiers, and performant. Low friction for new users (most people had the plugin, we could stream the main binary and assets)

0% chance we could have built the game using any other client-side tech stack available at the time.

jmcdiesel• 9 years ago

It was good for the time. So were java applets... but, as they say, to everything there is a season, and the sun is season is changing in the web media space..

baby5• 9 years ago

The web has become less interactive, and less animated. It's all about static pages now (literally, not as .html)

masklinn2• 9 years ago

It was good for the time. So were java applets…

It's really not comparable. Flash + AS was a RAD environment, many a game developer got their start (and even built full-fledged games[0]) through it. I'd argue that its biggest contributions were not web-bound[1], and I don't know of any other environment which is both as easy to get started with and as flexible.

[0] it's famously the primary expressive environment of Edmund McMillen: Gish, Aether and Binding of Isaac are all Flash though the later got rewritten natively in Rebirth, Super Meat Boy is the native successor to the Flash Meat Boy, The End is Nigh may well be his first game which did not start in Flash (and even that's unclear as it grew from a 2-weeks game jam)

[1] except insofar as they were being embedded/distributed through it e.g. newsgrounds or armorgames

omg_ketchup6• 9 years ago

Hot damn, an actual Farmville developer. My big plan fresh out of college was to make a Farmville-esque game with some action elements. Got WAY further along than I rightly should have, and I have AS3 to thank for that.

It's a shame it's going away. Glad the pros from that time feel the same way I do about it.

govg• 9 years ago

Did you actually end up developing a game like that? Otherwise, Stardew Valley might be something you're interested in.

kotojo• 9 years ago

I played way to much farmville around 2009 running a schools front desk! Thanks for that!

Out of curiosity what is your language of choice now days?

amitt2• 9 years ago

Mobile games/vr/ar - Unity or Unreal

Web Backend - Elixir/Phoenix (we used PHP for FV), Python in some cases

Web Frontend / Native Mobile Apps - React & React Native

JS has effectively caught up to what AS3 offered back then minus type safety (which TypeScript offers).

jchw4• 9 years ago

I wish we could take the best of AS3, ESNext, and TypeScript, and make it into one WebAssembled language...

Well okay. That's insane. But there's a part of me that wants to know how far it would go.

wooter2• 9 years ago

Isnt JS/ES approaching this? + the native stuff

zackbrown2• 9 years ago

Maybe not all that insane, but TypeScript is already essentially what you're describing.

larsiusprime3• 9 years ago

That's basically Haxe, if/when it adds a WebAssembly target. It already supports regular JS.

www.haxe.org

lynxaegon• 9 years ago

Yes back than even AS2 was good. But now you have a lot of great tools available for HTML5 and Unity. You can build anything you would have in Flash.

I wouldn't say AS3 is the best programming language, but that's just my point of view. I, for one, don't have a favorite language because i think that each language has it's pros and cons and each language excels in a certain area.

ivm3• 9 years ago

HTML5 toolset is too fragmented and developer-oriented. Unity is humongous and WebGL builds are too big. There's no replacement for Flash.

vr462• 9 years ago

Loved AS3. We managed to make lots of great work with it that didn't hog the CPU and performed beautifully. But the Flash runtime was the big problem. I'd love to have AS3 now as a language of useful programming. Still, big ups to everyone who worked on Flash, past and present. Thanks, y'all.

ZenoArrow• 9 years ago

"I'd love to have AS3 now as a language of useful programming."

Haxe is probably something you'll be interested in:

https://haxe.org/

zwetan4• 9 years ago

"I'd love to have AS3 now as a language of useful programming."

You still have Adobe AIR to target desktop and mobile GUI apps.

And you have a also the open source project Redtamarin

https://github.com/Corsaair/redtamarin

for shell scripts, command-line tools, server-side, etc. in 32bit/64bit for Windows, macOS and Linux

virgilp2• 9 years ago

You're welcome! (though I only worked on a small part of it - vector/SIMD instruction support, for gaming usecases)

I think a lot of the stuff that screwed the language was that it was initially supposed to be "an evolution of javascript" (ecmascript 4? I forget), so it took a on lot of the undesirable features of JavaScript, it was never a complete break from it.

Also, Adobe made a big-ish mistake in that it didn't keep the runtime separated from the VM - a lot of the VM abstractions (like pointer tagging) leaked into the runtime, and this is why a lot of things were harder to optimize in the VM than they should've been. Fortunately, the browser vendors didn't have this problem, that's why their GC could "run circles around Flash".

boubiyeah2• 9 years ago

Well, I used AS3 and Flex while it occupied a useful niche and at the time it was SO much better than the web platform.

BUT, AS3 was not a great language. The VM was pretty slow (that GC! I'm sure you game devs optimized the hell out of it with object pools and all, but still, modern JS VMs could run circles around Flash's), the static typing was extremely limited: you could only type "Function", not the actual arg and return value types; type inference was non existant, Vector was invariant, etc. Let's face it, Adobe wasn't the best at language design. Typescript is today so much better than AS3 ever was.

slackingoff20174• 9 years ago

God Typescript is glorious after dealing with JS for so long.

Just needed to say that.

chrisan• 9 years ago

the static typing was extremely limited: you could only type "Function", not the actual arg and return value types

You can type args and returns. One of the biggest things I relied on when I coded AS3

tomc19852• 9 years ago

To say nothing of their ridiculous security sandbox design... I remember trying to make banner ads with dynamic price data and between all the various detached hosting abstractions and ActionScript's security requirements (in a time before this kind of setup was common) it was a hell of a project.

_ea1k• 9 years ago

I'm glad that someone else said that. I really hated AS3 as a language and was really happy that the ECMAScript spec didn't take their ideas. Typescript does everything that AS3 could do, but does it in a way that is much more friendly to the JavaScript way.

pselbert• 9 years ago

AS3 was like learning Java, but with the lifecycle gotchas of JavaScript. Ten years ago it offered everything that JS did, except it required static compilation. The development speed of JS+CSS was vastly better than with pure AS.

I'll slightly mourne the passing of Flash.

pterylae• 9 years ago

I just have to throw in my 2 cents here. Actionscript outclasses any other language I've used for building custom UI components or just plain experimentation (I'm looking at you in particular, C#). My favorite experience with the language - building a dynamic GIS mapping engine using item renderers. It pains me to no end to watch this designer-friendly* language fade away into oblivion. Thanks Adobe. *at least for me

spyder• 9 years ago

Haxe!

Shinchy• 9 years ago

AS3 is still one of my favourite languages I've worked with, loved the class system they had in place for it.

npolet• 9 years ago

I used to working with AS3 and was always confused about the amount of hate that was thrown it's way. I found most things about the development flow very nice and it was a brilliant abstraction that HTML and JS just didn't provide.

I was involved in developing a really simple video editor in the browser that would have been impossible (or at least incredibly difficult) to accomplish without AS3 and the graphical abilities that it allowed.

But... it really did used to suck power from laptop batteries like nothing else.

I'll miss you flash. Thanks for shaping what we do and use now.

bigbugbag• 9 years ago

0% chance we could have built the game using any other client-side tech stack available at the time.

Would that have been a major loss for humanity as a whole ? Farmville improved the life of how many people ? how many hours wasted, people made miserable and money lifted from cash cows ?

Samuray• 9 years ago

Good thing I spent so much time learning and using Flash. Never again, Adobe.

bdcravens4• 9 years ago

There was a time that was a great career path. However, you never can predict how well a technology will perform, especially if it's tied to a closed platform. I suppose this speaks to the power of open source.

Then again, Animate CC should allow you to use those skills for the various platforms it supports.

nathanm412• 9 years ago

When was this? They've been trying to discourage people from using flash for years now.

https://blogs.adobe.com/conversations/2015/11/flash-html5-an...

reboog7116• 9 years ago

Because all that knowledge is now useless and does not apply to any other technology or approach to development?

j456• 9 years ago

Actionscript is nearly identical to forms of Javascript, so I'm not sure what you find about learning your time with Flash that wouldn't be transferrable.

Adobe Animate CC is the new version of Flash Pro that builds for HTML5, and if that doesn't float your boat, there's a wealth of JS libraries like pixi and p5.js that look extremely inviting.

otterpro• 9 years ago

Does this mean an end of all things related to Flash ecosystem or just Flash itself? I still have Adobe Air apps (as rare as it may seem) that I use regularly. Does anybody know the best way to migrate Adobe Air apps to HTML5? My guess is to use Adobe Animate CC, but it is not free..

WalterBright4• 9 years ago

Since Flash and MS-Paint are going to be dumped, why not open source them?

macspoofing• 9 years ago

I don't know about MS-Paint, but there are a number of licensing issues with simply open sourcing Flash.

WalterBright4• 9 years ago

If the product is dead, that means the licencors are likely to no longer make any money off it it. This means they will likely be open to open sourcing the code for free or next to free.

Open sourcing dead projects do have advantages for the licencors:

1. nobody likes the code they worked hard on to be dead

2. it's valuable free marketing for their brand name

3. they can charge for support

captainmuon• 9 years ago

Open sourcing yes, but what about just "opening the source" aka a source dump with no rights given?

I can't see myself using the source for anything, especially since all browsers are dropping support for plugins. But I'd really want to see if the source is so bad that they couldn't fix the issues (crashs, battery usage), or if it died due to political reasons.

KindOne• 9 years ago

MS Paint is still going to be around.

https://blogs.windows.com/windowsexperience/2017/07/24/ms-pa...

Previous discussion https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14845225

WalterBright4• 9 years ago

If it's going to be free in the app store, why not just make it open source?

timwaagh• 9 years ago

you could make a case for ms paint. its a simple program and ms could gain some easy points by doing this. but flash is a very useful thing. to open source it is to create a free competitor that will hurt your chances when you could release something similar. which adobe is likely to do.

WalterBright4• 9 years ago

Looks like there's now a petition to do it:

https://www.bleepingcomputer.com/news/software/petition-asks...

samfisher83• 9 years ago

It seems like instead of programming for flash player you have to program for each browsers HTML/JS quirks. People trash flash, but these browsers also have security holes. Its hard to make any really complex piece of software completely secure.

jordache• 9 years ago

I would wager flash can still be used to develop movie set UIs, and other internalized use cases. However those can also be utilized outside the realm of web browsers.

It's benefit is a powerful full featured scripting language, in conjunction with a canvas that is easy to achieve pixel accuracy.

TallGuyShort• 9 years ago

Long live Homestar Runner!

komali22• 9 years ago

Adobe also notes that it plans to be more aggressive about ending support for Flash “in certain geographies where unlicensed and outdated versions of Flash Player are being distributed.”

What did they mean by this line?

gpawl3• 9 years ago

China.

komali22• 9 years ago

Why would China be interested in distributing out of date versions of Flash? And how would Adobe more aggressively ending life for these regions affect them if they're already out of date and unlicensed anyway?

k__• 9 years ago

End of an era...

I did my first project, when I was 14, with Flash, simple animated cartoon. Was super easy and fun.

Today I read we would have Iron Man style UI if Steve Jobs didn't shot down Flash with the iPhone. The reasoning was, nothing we have today had such easy 2D/3D animation features, yes WebGL can do everything Flash can, but it's waaay more complicated.

When I started programming, I liked the idea of Flex, but somehow that never cached on. Later in 2011, when I finished my CS degree, I moved to JavaScript because it was open and rapidly catching up.

I liked the whole openness of JavaScript much more and like I said, the Web platform can theoretically do everything Flash can, but we need better tools. I can do rather much, because I'm a developer, but when I look at me 18 years ago, I didn't know anything about programming and still got things done with Flash.

I also met a few people who build their whole career on Flash. Some media degrees here were basically 80% Flash content creation and I'm still working with people who got into IT by doing Flash, they miss it pretty much...

smaili• 9 years ago

For fun, here's the famous letter from Jobs himself on Flash - https://www.apple.com/hotnews/thoughts-on-flash/

mfabbri77• 9 years ago

It would be cool to see the Adobe Flash 2D vector graphics engine opensourced, to perform comparisons with similar engine all around: Agg, AmanithVG, Blend2d, Cairo, NanoVg, Skia, ...

FRex2• 9 years ago

This is absolutely awful. There are thousands of great games on ArmorGames and Kongregate that are in Flash. I they consider open sourcing it or at least allowing open source alternatives to grow.

guessmyname• 9 years ago

I have a bad experience every time I have to declare taxes because the interface was built on top of Flash; many parts of the platform are broken (missing images, inconsistent styling in sub-pages, JavaScript exceptions) and I wonder what the government will do to overcome this change, three years is not much time by government standards.

oblib4• 9 years ago

The only people who care about the life of this product are those who invested in buying and learning how to use it. I can understand why they care, but I don't.

I decided not to invest in it back when Macromedia bought it because I knew it would be expensive and subjected me to their whims. I thought "Futuresplash" was great and had high hopes for it but I'd already been burned by Adobe's planned obsolescence and I hated the way Macromedia designed their UIs and thought they charged way too much for their products.

I stopped using Adobe's plug-in on my Mac even before Jobs came out and complained about Flash. I considered it a form "spyware" and even if it wasn't it was constantly pestering me to update it and I seldom ever visited a site that used it. As I recall it was a bit of a pain to get rid of it too.

tambourine_man• 9 years ago

The only people who care about the life of this product are those who invested in buying and learning how to use it.

And the ones that have content currently deployed on the platform. A few of my clients still have sites in Flash that I wrote for them in the early 2000s. Every year I try to convince them that they need to switch, but they can't justify the cost.

omg_ketchup6• 9 years ago

Nobody "learned" Flash. You opened it up and you already knew what to do.

That's the real value it provided.

oblib4• 9 years ago

I've seen some beautiful work done in Flash but the costs were always very high for both producers and their clients.

oblib4• 9 years ago

It's funny I got down voted for that comment. I'm not sure why they'd take offense with my opinions above. I didn't say they were wrong, I just whined and complained about why I didn't use it.

And whining and complaining can have merit. For example, you can whine and complain to your landlord about your A/C not working and they may not want to hear it, or pay to fix it, but it won't get fixed until you do.

If you ask me, I'll tell you this has been fixed.

cestith• 9 years ago

Flash Player is not Flash. Flash was the name of the media creation software. Flash Player is not end-of-life because it sucks (which it does) but because in the days of HTML 5, CSS 3, ECMAScript 6/7, Canvas, WebGL, etc a plugin to show that sort of media is redundant to the browser.

The creation tool lives on, although rebranded.

TekMol• 9 years ago

I wonder if WebAssembly is facing a similar fate. Somehow, I always have a "flashy" feeling when reading about it.

cjensen2• 9 years ago

I feel so bad for the Scratch language, which converted to Flash at exactly the wrong time.

marcins• 9 years ago

Scratch is in the process of a HTML5 rewrite with the help of Google, which makes sense given that it's the key component of their CS First program.

https://wiki.scratch.mit.edu/wiki/Scratch_3.0

Sounds like it should be ready by 2020!

NoGravitas• 9 years ago

Honestly, I need it now. I tried to pull up Scratch for my child, and the "create" link went to a blank page without even an error message. Given that no browsers on my platform still support NSAPI plugins, there is literally no way for my child to use Scratch, and they are the perfect age for it.

stevenh• 9 years ago

Most actual developers currently using Adobe's products will only want to know whether Adobe AIR is safe. It is.

https://forums.adobe.com/message/9723772

TheRoccoB• 9 years ago

I made a celebration post! https://medium.com/@theroccob/in-honor-of-the-end-of-flash-8...

drewlander• 9 years ago

What about homestarrunner? Will somebody think about homestarrunner!?

amelius• 9 years ago

This is exactly why we shouldn't rely on closed standards and closed viewers: at some point they stop to exist, and there will be content out there that we can't view any longer.

cbhl• 9 years ago

Rather than blaming Adobe, I hope some of you will be inspired to go out and build the next vector animation format/authoring tool for the web.

codedokode2• 9 years ago

Without Flash live streams on Youtube cannot be played in Firefox 45 on Windows XP. So Flash is still useful.

And by the way videos in Twitter and Vimeo don't work in both Chromium and Firefox on Windows XP. Because HTML5 video cross-platform compatibility is not perfect and developers have chosen not to encode videos in formats supported on this platform.

TheKarateKid• 9 years ago

Anyone who still uses XP doesn't deserve to have compatibility. The time to move on was years ago.

codedokode2• 9 years ago

XP is still more popular than many Linux distributions. Should Youtube stop supporting them too?

j456• 9 years ago

XP is still used in many countries around the world on older equipment for a variety of reasons.

BatFastard• 9 years ago

Flash is not dead, only the browser plug in is going away. AIR is still alive and well, for both desktop and Mobile

misticdeveloper• 9 years ago

Yes! HBO's lazy ass will finally be forced to get rid of their horrible Flash web player

Marazan3• 9 years ago

Adobe abandonment of Flex has to be one of the most perplexing acts of corporate self harm I have witnessed ( and been affected by).

Dominating the Rich Internet Application space and poised to storm corporate apps by levaraging all those Flex Devs via Adobe Air and they... just knife them all in the back and abandon Flex totally.

Just jaw dropping. Inexplicable.

Hasknewbie• 9 years ago

> Just jaw dropping. Inexplicable.

"Adobesque"?

rhapsodic4• 9 years ago

Adobe abandonment of Flex has to be one of the most perplexing acts of corporate self harm I have witnessed ( and been affected by).

Flex is now an Apache open source project. It still has an active developer community, some of whom are Adobe employees, and appear to work on Flex full-time.

Unfortunately, it seems the developer community is focusing most of their efforts on FlexJS, an HTML/JavaScript version of Flex. I could be wrong, but I don't see them making a very big splash in the crowded JS app framework space.

Marazan3• 9 years ago

If this had been Adobe's focus rather than chucking it at Apache then Adobe would be world leaders in JavaScript app development and we'd all be using their tools.

liquidise• 9 years ago

The Flex concept of variables being "observable" was about 8 years ahead of Backbone and later Angular, and now React-style UI updates from an event loop.

It was surreal working in the Cairngorm Flex framework briefly in 2000s and then see Backbone and Angular pitched as groundbreaking years later. Only now are we getting to a similar level of elegance with loop-style UI updates.

5trokerac3• 9 years ago

Still haven't had a better development experience than Flex with the CLI compiler.

Built some of the first web based AR engines with it and alchemy. Built giant, 80"+ touchscreen, trade show interactives with it that nobody had a clue were Flash unless you told them. Was able to port just about anything to iPad with Air for Mobile and actually build IPA files on Linux.

All they needed to do was cross compile to HTML5 and barely anyone would be using Angular or Bootstrap nowadays.

j456• 9 years ago

Did the transition of Flex to be an open source Apache project not go well?

I attended one of the early Flex360 conferences in California to learn more about it and always thought it had potential.

I understand part of SAP (Netweaver I belive) is in part based on Flex or Air to help build custom experiences simply.

meerita• 9 years ago

I made a living with Flash. In fact, I first made Flash before making HTML, CSS.

baalimago• 9 years ago

I'm foreseeing someone finding a hole in flash security around 2022 forcing adobe to update it again anyway, sorta like wannadecryptor

but rip all the flashgame websites (if there even is any left)

humptechtips• 9 years ago

Too bad. Mozzilla will not ask me to update flash player as it is literally gone now. I must there are too much memories with flash player as there was a time when you couldn't play a video on youtube without it. #ripadobeflashplayer

Itzcoatl• 9 years ago

The cross platform apps arguments can easily being applied to all the {"React native", "Xamarin", etc} bullshit. IMHO.

dandare2• 9 years ago

Where a format didn’t exist, we invented one – such as with Flash and Shockwave.

Cringe!

Adobe bought Flash and Shockwave along with Macromedia that invented them 10 year earlier.

favorited• 9 years ago

But surely "we" includes Macromedia, if Adobe itself included Macromedia after the acquisition?

mulmen• 9 years ago

That's disingenuous. Adobe didn't invent Flash, they bought the company that did. Adobe's strategy is based on them having resources to acquire, not create.

redindian75• 9 years ago

Actually Macromedia didnt invent it either. A small company called "FutureSplash" had a software called FutureSplash Animator. Macromedia bought it in the late 90s

thousande2• 9 years ago

The two companies kind of merged and Adobe continued to employ some of the original members from the Flash team

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kevin_Lynch_(computing)

https://daringfireball.net/2005/04/adobe_translation

baby5• 9 years ago

This makes me sad.

The internet used to be less "flat". Every website was interactive, animated, had sound, had dimensions to it. Everything was a theme park. Maybe you had to learn a new UI every time but I was amazed a lot back then.

I learned a lot of programming with Action Script, it wasn't the best, but it was easy to get into.

I did my fare share of animating, just because it was so easy to get into. Xiaoxiao was just amazing to me (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hw4wzwYeZ0Y).

I did my fair share of games as well, there were so many of them and publishing a game on internet had never been so easy. Orisinal is beautiful (http://www.ferryhalim.com/orisinal/).

Now where do people find such mini games? On mobile. The big mini-game market has shifted and we now have to pay, we now have to download each game individually.

I understand Flash has had a bad track of security vulnerability, but the internet used to be magical, it's the end of an era.

As methodover says it here:

The tools for 2D animations and games in Flash are far beyond anything else out there from a creative standpoint. There isn't a product on the market that comes even close. Everything now is too technical, too specialized.

j79• 9 years ago

While I agree, a lot of what you said isn't limited to the lack of Flash, but just trends in general. Websites could be more interactive, animated (even with sound, if desired...but please...no), and have some dimension. Unfortunately, everything looks/feels like Bootstrap-themes, because they are.

I personally started off animating in Macromedia Director. I played around with Lingo. I moved to Flash / Actionscript and loved the change. In a similar fashion, I'm totally excited about the future of Animation / Games (and how Canvas plays into that). There have been some huge strides by vendors and developers to improve animation and gaming on the web, and I suspect that will continue before Flash is EoL.

Flash being discontinued makes me sad, but purely in a sentimental way - I'm very excited about what comes next :)

deedubaya• 9 years ago

interactive, animated, had sound, had dimensions

Interaction, animation, sound, and dimensions have their place in the web. That place is in a small percentage of websites. Very small. Flash was possibly a better tool for that small percentage of websites (games and something else I guess?).

I, for one, am glad I can read a fucking blog article these days without it being rendered through an animated page flip which makes the shrill sound of paper tearing each time a page is "turned" with no way to mute.

Yes, flat text suits me just fine.

GuB-42• 9 years ago

Well, the new trend is to hijack your scrollbar. You scroll down and things start go left and right. Not much better.

There will always be some retarded "UX" designers for breaking things that work.

Steuard• 9 years ago

The internet used to be less "flat". Every website was interactive, animated, had sound, had dimensions to it.

You have just described what I profoundly loathed about practically every restaurant website in the early 2000s.

nandemo• 9 years ago

We came here to bury Flash, not to praise it.

madeofpalk• 9 years ago

This has nothing to do with Flash, but a move in design trends.

geekamongus2• 9 years ago

Many people, myself included, bristled and groaned every time some company decided it was important to "wow" me with their Flash animation when I first visited their web page.

And then again when I clicked the "Home" link.

And then again when I revisited it a few days later to remember what their phone number was.

And then again, 6 months later, when I clicked the bookmark I had saved in an effort to remember what it was and why I saved it.

therethenthat• 9 years ago

up in heaven, Steve Jobs is smiling a bit more than usual today :)

tapsboy• 9 years ago

Interesting, that it will still survive in browsers till 2020. Co-incidentally, today at A+E Networks, we finally migrated all our web properties to HTML5 video playback.

xupybd• 9 years ago

Flash ads were terrible, a blight on the web. But Flex is so much more structured than any JS framework I've used. It wasn't super pretty but it did the job.

RIP a major Flex project I support :(

digi_owl• 9 years ago

Now if only there were not a war of streaming protocols going on...

partycoder• 9 years ago

The irony is that AS3 felt more Java-esque than JavaScript.

tomc19852• 9 years ago

What about Flash proper? I imagine sunsetting that would be devastating for the animation industry.

blondie9x• 9 years ago

RIP Steve Jobs https://www.apple.com/hotnews/thoughts-on-flash/

exodust5• 9 years ago

Funny how they spruik their Creative Cloud applications in a message about EOL Flash. I'm guessing their marketing managers signed off on the message... "End with a positive note about how awesome we are, and how everyone can subscribe to our products and give us money on a regular basis no matter how infrequently they use the product."

Adobe are so... creepy. I won't miss the pre-ticked "you want McAfee fries with that" box when updating Flash. I wonder how many people didn't see the checkbox and ended up installing McAfee unintentionally.

I still use a browser extension to force Flash player on Youtube simply because it performs better than the HTML player, and provides more flexibility.

ipstas• 9 years ago

somebody still using this outdated pos? can they kill pdf too?

senthilnayagam• 9 years ago

I still don't understand why don't adobe open source the flash player, so that security team and browser teams can look into it and maintain a secure runtime.

VicYu• 9 years ago

I see, you already have Animate CC.

qxxx• 9 years ago

I installed Adobe Animate last week, it looks really similar to flash, they even use very similar concepts. I didn't try to write some code yet, but it looks like they use some kind of an action script.

barbaricmelons• 9 years ago

It's basically Flash, it just exports differently. Same program, different name to avoid confusion with the Flash platform. Basically the only thing that's going away for the typical Animate user is the swf, everything else will remain as Animate exports to html5 and js while using as3.

geekamongus2• 9 years ago

And there was much rejoicing.

prima-facie• 9 years ago

That's quite a commitment for a company, to maintain a piece of software for 25-ish years.

I have fond memories of using Macromedia Flash 4 and 5 many years ago to create animations and simple scripted pages. I loved how well integrated everything was. But I still believe that things are better as they are today: we have more choices in frameworks, better standards, and some great web services which work well on both mobile and desktop.

That being said today I uninstalled the Flash plugin preemptively on my machines just because I am not needing it for any website I commonly use.

eadmund• 9 years ago

I miss Flash; it was nice to be able to browse the web normally, with Flash disabled, and then to enable it only for a single function on a single page. It was relatively rare, and it didn't destroy the web.

With JavaScript, I basically have to enable it everywhere, as the web has been destroyed and I must now grant practically every site execute permissions on my computer in order to read content.

rayvd• 9 years ago

This.

That and HTML5 autoplay is super annoying and there doesn't seem to be a bulletproof way to stop it (at least the various plugins I've tried).

thekevan2• 9 years ago

I wonder what will happen to large Flash games sites like Kongregate.

flohofwoe• 9 years ago

Here's a recent Kongregate blog post about the topic. HTML5 game uploads have been growing steadily, and there are now more new HTML5 games uploaded than Flash games:

http://blog.kongregate.com/html5-is-here/

thekevan2• 9 years ago

I should have done some more research before commenting. Also, there is the new effort to open source Flash.

mmmnt• 9 years ago

Noooo, whats next? The real player?

j456• 9 years ago

While Flash Player is meeting it's end, the transferability of existing investments in AS3 to a new endpoint is tough not to imagine due to the kinship of ECMAscript with both JS and AS3.

If AS3 could compile to HTML5/JS endpoints, existing, or archival can in some part live on or be repurposed. The question will be how close it can get compared to existing solutions. There is likely several billions of dollars (likely more) of content that will need to be recreated, and not all of it will, or can be.

With Flash Professional becoming Adobe Animate CC, it wouldn't be surprising if this transferability becomes more of a prominent format. Adobe has been at the core of a lot of rich media formats both online and files with PDF and Flash, and I expect them not to disappear in the world of the tooling to create such experiences.

There is some stewardship and timing on this announcement from Adobe that says the right things to those those who are quietly very excited by WebAssembly, and now have Adobe and others starting to look at it the same way.

kensey• 9 years ago

I remember in 1993-1994 playing Cosmic Osmo on a Mac. All the old pre-Myst Cyan games (Manhole, Osmo, Spelunx) were basically HyperCard stacks, which didn't directly allow for any but the crudest animation. But Cyan had integrated MacroMind VideoWorks, which later became Macromedia Director, into Osmo. The effect over other HyperCard stacks was striking. You could actually play little minigames in the Osmo world.

Then I went off to college the next year and found out about the whole "web" thing, and again everything was flat and mostly static. Then Macromedia Shockwave and Flash and Java came along, and it was just like Osmo vs. Manhole, only more so. For a long time, your browser install wasn't complete till you had Java, RealPlayer, Shockwave and Flash installed (and later, QuickTime).

(For nostalgia purposes, Steam has all the Cyan games from Manhole on up as a bundle; you can also play the original Manhole/Osmo/Spelunx in the SheepShaver emulator if you can get hold of firmware plus OS and game discs.)

betatest• 9 years ago

Of course not. It was planed originally in 2012 to happen in 2015. HTML5 is STILL not ready. And it STILL won't be in 2025. All you haters can downvote me to oblivion new for saying THE TRUTH (drops mic)

“We will stop updating and distributing the Flash Player at the end of 2020”

Related Stories