Beyond Meat fights for survival

https://foodinstitute.com/focus/beyond-meat-fights-for-survival/

by airstrike • 1 year ago

204 574 1 year ago

Not a customer but it’s a shame it’s not working out for them. I’m sure they have people who would enjoy it but the feedback I’ve heard was mostly negative with respect to quality of ingredients and the like.

At this stage if they scaled back would they stand a chance to survive? Or do they owe too much money?

dgrin91• 1 year ago

They owe way too much. The article actually touches on this - they have such little hope of paying back their debt that they are leaning into this so that they can get better renegotiation terms with bond holders

phyrex• 1 year ago

That's disappointing, they've done a great job making plant meat ubiquitous and took away some of the hippy aura that has kept many people from trying plant-based meat alternatives. I really hope they can turn it around, both selfishly as a happy customer, as well as for the planet.

armchairhacker• 1 year ago

I posted before: I care more about the nutritional content being close to meat than the look and taste; specifically, similar macro-nutrient ratios and whatever micro-nutrients are rare outside of meat.

I also care about it being cheap in theory, even if it's more expensive in practice because the company hasn't scaled up. But really, as long as it's not ridiculously expensive, and isn't missing some nutrient or balance that would mess up my diet, I'd buy it for the environment.

iknowstuff• 1 year ago

hmm.. you would buy it but aren't?

4 oz raw/patty:

Impossible → 19 P / 14 F / 9 C, 240 kcal, 370 mg Na, 0 mg chol

Beyond → 20 P / 13 F / 7 C, 220 kcal, 260 mg Na, 0 mg chol

80/20 beef → 19 P / 23 F / 0 C, 287 kcal, 75 mg Na, ? chol (high)

Plants hit beef-level protein, ditch cholesterol, trade more sodium & a few carbs; beef still packs the fat.

bluefirebrand2• 1 year ago

I thought sodium was really bad for you though

randycupertino• 1 year ago

I remember when veggie burgers first came out and they actually featured veggies and tried to taste like veggies instead of psuedo-meat patties. They were so good! Then everything tried to just clone meat, poorly, in taste and texture and they were so much worse. But those first ones that really tasted like veggies were delish.

bryanlarsen• 1 year ago

Are you a vegetarian? I'm not, and really enjoy a good black bean patty. But when I crave a juicy beef hamburger, I have one. Vegetarians might prefer to satisfy cravings with something closer to their childhood memories than a black bean patty.

burnt-resistor5• 1 year ago

Both exist. Portabello burgers are great too. There's nothing wrong with choice.

JoshTriplett4• 1 year ago

I'm glad that people have the option of those if they like them. Personally, I find the veggie patties to be awful in both taste and especially texture. I was thrilled when there started being options other than the pervasive gardenburgers.

deanc2• 1 year ago

These meat substitutes are UPF and that’s what you should care about more than nutritional content.

Snild• 1 year ago

"UPF"?

PaulRobinson• 1 year ago

OK, we need to pick something apart here, because I see this a lot and it's annoying.

UPF is not inherently bad. Some UPFs (Pasta, wholemeal bread, baked beans, probiotic yoghurts, wheat biscuit cereals), are actually good for you.

The problem is that UPFs come from manufacturers who are trying to get you to buy more of their product, by playing tricks with the brain's response to it.

There are food labs where people are having their brain scanned while they sip different soda formulations, tobacco companies buying food companies to apply their research methodologies, and people figuring out packaging noises and shapes in order to make your old/slow brain excited at the crap you're about to eat (the pringles can is hard to use on purpose, for example). This is all symptomatic of a global food industry that needs you to buy more food, so needs you to consume more food, regardless of nutritional impact.

I recommend reading Chris van Tulleken's book and watching (if you can) the documentaries he made on the subject.

Yes, the Brazilian paper that started all this said "UPF is harming the health of the nation", but the root cause was not UPF processes, it was food industry processes that often require them to produce UPF.

It isn't the UP that makes the F bad, it's that some profitable but bad F needs UP to be viable.

It is therefore perfectly possible for meat substitutes to be UPF and healthy, just as some other UPFs are healthy. In fact, arguably they need to be both to survive.

ck45• 1 year ago

Many (most?) plant based meat substitutes contain methyl cellulose. There are studies like [1] that seem to connect it to intestinal inflammation.

[1] https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC5410598/

buu700• 1 year ago

My thoughts exactly. I don't want ultraprocessed junk food that more or less feels and tastes like meat. I want a whole food protein source that's comparably healthful to meat.

Products like Beyond and Impossible seem to be designed with the unspoken assumption that meat is junk food that meat-eaters simply lack the self-control to stop eating. Maybe that does represent a common relationship with meat, but for me it's just off-putting when I see things like canola oil in place of a saturated fat like coconut oil so they can market it as "healthier". (But again, all else being equal, I'll still prefer non-UPF.)

That's why I'm continually surprised at how little attention Meati seems to get. It's been my go-to protein for a little while now. It doesn't have high saturated fat (or high fat in general) like meat, but that's easy to fix with a little butter. What it does have is high-quality complete protein with high micronutrition, low carbs, and minimal processing. It's a form of mycelium that's fairly similar to lean chicken meat. Not quite as nice as a fatty steak, but it does the job with a lower mortality rate.

bastawhiz2• 1 year ago

I feel like I'm the ideal customer for Beyond Meat and its competitors. I am not price sensitive, I don't mind the idea of plant based meat products, and I am willing to try new things. My biggest reasons for not buying Beyond Meat are that I:

1. Would rather not cook, and eating Beyond Meat in a way that's financially meaningful for them as a company means me cooking

2. If I'm going to put in the effort to cook, I want the result to be something that I have outsized enjoyment for. If I get a middling burger for my trouble, I'm simply not going to care enough to do it.

The chicken nuggets and popcorn chicken sound the closest to something I can casually heat up, but neither of those are things that would replace something in my existing diet. They have beef and chicken and sausage and all sorts of other stuff, but they're just the meat. They replace an ingredient.

I buy Jimmy Dean breakfast bowls. I'd happily get ones that used Beyond Meat. I buy frozen noodle and pasta meals: same deal. Sandwiches. Chicken salad. Soup. I'm struggling to think of a single product that I can swap out for a Beyond Meat alternative.

I don't need every bit of meat that I consume to even be especially good. But if it's only just fine and it's not convenient, I'm just not going to get it. If it was cheaper, I might consider. Or if it was more nutritious. Or if it was more filling than regular meat (or less filling, even). Or if I felt strongly about the plant based products that I buy being a somewhat compelling meat facsimile. But there's just nothing that inspires me to pick up any of their products.

qmmmur• 1 year ago

For your own health, I implore you to explore even the most basic of cooking.

bastawhiz2• 1 year ago

I do cook, I didn't say that I don't. My point is that if I'm going to pay a premium for a main ingredient and go through the effort of cooking it, I do not want it to be mediocre at best. Beyond Meat, imo, just isn't a more pleasing option, and the only reasons that I can see to choose it are:

1. You really like meat but have reasons to avoid it.

2. You want to broaden the diversity of foods in your exclusively plant based diet.

And that's not me. And probably not very many other people, either.

Hell, I buy a lot of vegetarian meals that require a fair amount of preparation. But they're not meat substitutes, because if I'm optimizing for enjoyment, I'm buying something that tastes good on its own rather than mimicking something that tastes good.

drewg1234• 1 year ago

Impossible has Impossible Bowls, which sounds like something that would be what you're looking for. They are available at Walmart https://impossiblefoods.com/media/news-releases/impossible-f...

ivraatiems2• 1 year ago

Other faux-meat companies like Impossible seem to be doing better. Maybe Beyond's product is inferior? Personally, I don't choose it over Impossible.

gonzalohm5• 1 year ago

The article says that impossible food has gone down 50% (the stock price)

ameliaquining• 1 year ago

Note that Impossible, unlike Beyond, isn't publicly traded, so the only time anyone knows for sure what it's worth is right after it raises capital. It sounded like the 50% thing was some kind of internal projection.

wk_end• 1 year ago

Impossible is good enough that - in the right context, if you squint real hard - you'd be hard-pressed to distinguish it from the real deal. Beyond just isn't there, it still comes off as a weird faux meat.

ivraatiems2• 1 year ago

Completely agree. I've made pasta sauces with Impossible that are indistinguishable.

hellcow3• 1 year ago

This is too bad. Beyond and Impossible opened up the door to me gradually becoming vegan. It was similar enough to real meat that I didn’t miss meat anymore, and from there I found other substitutions which were healthier. Without them I’m sure I never would have started a plant-based diet.

gonzalohm5• 1 year ago

What have you substituted cheese with? It's one of my favorite foods but no substitute has come close to it

im_down_w_otp• 1 year ago

I replaced it with insatiable yearning. It's not as good, but it's all I've got.

e403• 1 year ago

Vegan cheese is made from cashews. If you’re in the Bay Area try Arizmendi’s vegan pizza. Surprisingly good.

angry_moose3• 1 year ago

Violife is probably the best for shredded (mozzarella/cheddar) but its still not great.

I really like Field Roast Chao slices for things like burgers or sandwiches.

unsnap_biceps2• 1 year ago

https://kite-hill.com/products/chives-cream-cheese is a great option for bagels. I prefer it to normal cream cheese.

hellcow3• 1 year ago

Sad truth is there isn’t a real substitute. You just eat it less and desire it less over time.

Unrelated to cheese but MyBacon is fantastic if you can get it near you.

socalgal22• 1 year ago

What kind of cheese? If you want something strong like blue cheese you can try fermented tofu

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fermented_bean_curd#/media/Fil...

I haven't tried it as a blue cheese sub dressing but if I just taste it on my chop sticks I feel it's at least in the same general direction. I'm pretty confident I could blend it into a a dressing or put it on a burger as a blue-cheese substitute.

mdaniel3• 1 year ago

Including Miyoko's? https://www.miyokos.com/products/fresh-plant-milk-mozzarella...

Damn shame about the corporate drama, so it's possible the formula could/might change but the products were outstanding for the problem they're trying to solve the last time I tried them

JumpCrisscross19• 1 year ago

It's one of my favorite foods but no substitute has come close to it

Why do you want to? Lactovegetarianism is far more precedented than veganism.

AareyBaba• 1 year ago

Nutritional yeast has cheese like flavor.

rollcat• 1 year ago

Deciding to abandon meat is a lot like quitting cigarettes. Sometimes you need a long time to ease off, some artificial/processed replacement (e.g. nicotine patches), it won't feel the same or "good enough", there's a lot of psychological struggle, even your body just demands its shot. It can take a lot of dedicated effort.

And sometimes it just hits you: this is bad for me, I haven't been wanting it for a good while, and I want it gone now. I've quit meat just like that, almost exactly 15 years ago, never looked back.

I've never liked Beyond or such, it was unlike anything I'd actually want to eat. But we should still empower people who want to quit, but can't do so easily.

angry_moose3• 1 year ago

I've been vegetarian for about 8 years and won't buy them and try to avoid them in restaurants because they're too meat-like. Unfortunately they've made good non-fake meat vegetarian burgers (black bean, wild rice, etc) harder to find.

It's a situation of "You know that thing you don't eat, don't like, and don't have cravings for anymore? We made something that tastes exactly like it. You're going to love it!"

I'm glad they existed when I first went vegetarian as they made the transition easier, but its a tough market when people will go off them in a couple years.

subscribed• 1 year ago

I'm not a vegetarian and I buy them exactly because they're meat-like.

You're literally not supporting a company which, as you admit, made your life more pleasant. And might potentially do so for others.

I'm confused.

angry_moose3• 1 year ago

Because after 8 years the idea of eating meat has no remaining appeal and is switching more to mild revulsion. Why would I order a substitute that is a close copy of that?

I'll still get them if there's literally no other vegetarian option on the menu, but that's rare.

transcriptase• 1 year ago

There’s no way to say this without sounding like an asshole but perhaps in 8 years your memory of what meat is like has drifted. I only say that because the rest of us wish the fake stuff was remotely comparable in taste and texture.

jahsome2• 1 year ago

Both can be true. I think they try desperately to be meat, and they fail miserably.

gonzalohm5• 1 year ago

Why do you assume people will stop consuming them after a few years? I think most people enjoy the taste of meat but are concerned about the environmental implications of consuming meat.

I would replace all animal products if they tasted like the real thing. I'm sorry but tofu is not cheese

bluefirebrand2• 1 year ago

I think most people enjoy the taste of meat but are concerned about the environmental implications of consuming meat.

I don't think most people think about the environmental implications of consuming meat even remotely

drewg1234• 1 year ago

Indeed. I've been vegan for nearly 5 years, and I still miss meat. Beyond and Impossible make being vegan tolerable for me.

joelrunyon5• 1 year ago

Do you care about the ethical implications of the business practices of the brands you're supporting?

https://x.com/joelrunyon/status/1927531529883762920

drewg1234• 1 year ago

I'm just the opposite.

I'm a vegan who loves & misses the taste of meat. Without Beyond (and Impossible), it would have been way harder for me to have become vegan. I think black bean burgers are disgusting. When picking a restaraunt for a team dinner with non vegans, I specifically look for menus that offer Impossible or Beyond, and I avoid restaurants that offer homemade bean/pea/etc burgers.

leguminous• 1 year ago

I've been vegetarian for a long time and I still think Beyond burgers are great. I have a pack of them from Costco in the freezer. I like black bean burgers, too, but Beyond burgers taste like my (distant) memory of a "normal" burger.

In any case, I assume Beyond was relying on getting more market penetration past just vegetarians and vegans. There just aren't enough of us to get to the revenue they seem to be targeting. Personally, I'll be disappointed if they end up disappearing.

jsbisviewtiful• 1 year ago

Was a vegetarian for about 8 years and now a pescatarian. We practically always have some Beyond products in our house and will order them at restaurants. Losing Beyond products would be a huge bummer.

ignormies• 1 year ago

I'll echo what some of the other commenters have stated:

I'm not vegan nor vegetarian, but I definitely align with many of the reasons that one would choose to be so. There are environmental and animal welfare concerns with the meat industry that simply cannot be ignored.

With that in mind, I try _choose_ a non-meat-based option when it's feasible. I do my best to vote with my dollar. Beyond Meat and Impossible have made this option available significantly more often in the past couple years.

When I shop for meat at the grocery store to cook at home, I've effectively stopped buying "real" meat for my standard meals. Unless I'm cooking some special or something specific, I simply buy Beyond Meat/Impossible for my standard meals. The same applies when eating out -- if there's a meat alternative, I will go for it (even absorbing the $2-3 upcharge).*

This is not to say that I _only_ go for the meat-alternative-based non-meat dishes. I often go for a tofu or mushroom alternative too. I don't even think Beyond Meat/Impossible taste _like_ the meat they're trying to substitute -- they're just simply good, meat-y, protein-y, umami-y flavors that I simply can't get enough of.

The more options there are for people like me the better. My diet has been able to shift closer and closer to removing meat entirely, but it doesn't have to be an all-or-nothing battle. I just want to eat _less_ meat, not _no_ meat.

* One thing that's frustrating to me as someone that's not _actually_ a vegetarian/vegan is that restaurants often make the assumption that if I'm choosing the meat-alternative, then I must be vegetarian or vegan. No, I still want the cheese or the dairy, or even the meat (e.g.: an Impossible Cheeseburger with real bacon is still delicious). I'm trying to reduce, not _eliminate_, meat from my diet.

joelrunyon5• 1 year ago

If you care about the ethical reasons for plant-based meat, you should look at the companies business practices behind the scenes when they think no one is paying attention - https://x.com/joelrunyon/status/1927531529883762920

Kind of wild how they're treating creators.

joelrunyon5• 1 year ago

If you didn't like that, the CEO of impossible foods is now proposing a 50/50 burger (50% fake meat, 50% meat) - https://x.com/joelrunyon/status/1936183159491584134

https://www.wsj.com/business/retail/impossible-foods-growth-...

pmg101• 1 year ago

Sounds mad but it could work.

People seem inclined to buy hybrids over full EVs which is a comparable situation.

JoshTriplett4• 1 year ago

You know that thing you don't eat, don't like, and don't have cravings for anymore?

That is not everyone's experience with being vegetarian.

paulcole• 1 year ago

I don’t eat meat but enjoy their products at least once a week, sometimes more. Very tasty, available nearly everywhere.

I don’t care about the nutrition/health of it at all.

Hope they can turn things around!

8f2ab37a-ed6c• 1 year ago

Wish their products had less fat in them. They're tasty, but nutritionally they're a whole lot of canola oil.

mdaniel3• 1 year ago

Their newest release uses avocado oil, fwiw: https://www.beyondmeat.com/en-US/products/beyond-beef/ground...

JumpCrisscross19• 1 year ago

Is anyone really pretending these are healthier than a grass-fed beef patty? Or cooked vegetables?

The health pitch on these products has always struck me as incredibly weird.

gonzalohm5• 1 year ago

I think the problem is that crappy supermarket meat is really cheap, and most people don't seem to care about the quality of the meat. For those people, it's hard to justify buying a more expensive product that's not even meat.

I wonder if reducing the price (without selling at a loss) would increase sales enough to offset the lower revenue

ipnon• 1 year ago

The crappy supermarket meat is actually incredibly nutritious it just has dubious ethics for an apparently vanishingly small market segment.

gonzalohm5• 1 year ago

But it tastes disgusting, it's one of those things where you actually get what you pay

anoncow• 1 year ago

What makes supermarket meat crappy?

xedrac3• 1 year ago

There is no crappy meat, just meat that isn't prepared well.

jabjq• 1 year ago

Bad cuts, like pork loins that are not fatty.

scythe• 1 year ago

Part of the reason that cheap meat is cheap is because it's a byproduct of producing nice meat. Chicken thighs are cheap because the chicken seller makes money on breasts. Round is cheap because the cow is paid for with the revenue from brisket and ribeye etc.

The meat alternatives are a product by itself, and they have to justify their whole supply chain. That's tough.

Barbing• 1 year ago

Any employees here, sorry what morale must be like at work (I’d guess) & hope you get great offers elsewhere!

SoftTalker2• 1 year ago

It’s always been awful IMO. Tastes like sawdust with a congealed vegetable oil binder and chemical flavorings that approximate meat. A straight up bean burger is better and far less processed.

octo888• 1 year ago

Right! Beyond awful

drewg1234• 1 year ago

Its way better than a bean burger IMHO. As a vegan, what I like most about Beyond burgers are that they are consistent, and pretty amazing at not being awful. If I'm in a random restaurant with a few token vegan options, the last thing I want to do is take a chance on some potentially terrible homemade bean or chickpea burger. If they have Beyond or Impossible, I know exactly what I'm getting.

DangitBobby2• 1 year ago

Absolutely better than the crappy black bean or chickpea patties you'd get at most burger joints. I'd much rather have Beyond or Impossible at a cookout as well.

linsomniac• 1 year ago

Our local drive in movie theater (remember those) offers various meal options including burgers, and I've taken to ordering the Impossible there because somehow several times in their beef burgers I've gotten significant bone chunks, to the extent that I was surprised I didn't break a tooth on them.

itsoktocry4• 1 year ago

Yes, you know exactly what you're getting: processed garbage.

fnordlord• 1 year ago

It could have to do with how they're prepped. Even the real thing can taste like sawdust and grill marks if done incorrectly. I'm personally biased towards veggie burgers and prefer them over the real thing but in the last year, I've been to multiple cookouts where both "burger dudes" and kids have chosen beyond over meat.

I agree that the level of process is questionable but, if done well, I don't think it lacks in flavor.

msgodel• 1 year ago

I bought one of these by mistake during the pandemic and immediately gagged trying to eat it. Then checked the label and realized what I had bought wasn't what I thought it was.

beej71• 1 year ago

Last I looked, there was an awful lot of saturated fat in their burgers. I tended to order something other than a veggie burger when their was the only one on the menu.

thegeekpirate• 1 year ago

USDA 80/20 ground beef has 7.7g per 113g [0], 90/10 has 5g [1], Beyond Meat has 2g [2], and Impossible has 6g [3].

Impossible also has a "Lite" version (which doesn't seem to exist near me) with 1g [4], although apparently it doesn't taste very good.

[0] https://fdc.nal.usda.gov/food-details/2514744/nutrients

[1] https://fdc.nal.usda.gov/food-details/2514743/nutrients

[2] https://www.beyondmeat.com/en-CA/products/the-beyond-burger/...

[3] https://faq.impossiblefoods.com/hc/en-us/articles/3600189392...

[4] https://impossiblefoods.com/beef/plant-based-impossible-beef...

davidw• 1 year ago

One of the things I've noticed about shopping carefully at the local supermarket (Albertsons, in Oregon) is that they very often use beef as a 'loss leader' to get people to shop there, so beef is often cheaper than it 'should' be, and especially so if more of the externalities involved in the production of beef were included in the price.

I like beef, but the price probably makes it harder to compete with.

toast0• 1 year ago

Ground beef needs to move quickly, and you've got to sell some to go with the nicer cuts of meat, so it makes sense to sell at low or negative margins.

xedrac3• 1 year ago

I absolutely love beef. A good ribeye steak, or some smoked brisket are two of my favorite foods. I was intrigued by the claims these meat alternative companies were making, so naturally I tried them all. It's not surprising to me that they are struggling. I could barely swallow their products. I think it was a mistake to compare these to one of the greatest foods on the planet. It set the expectation was too high.

unsnap_biceps2• 1 year ago

They work well enough as a replacement in a fast food burger or in a dish where the meat itself isn't really the star player. Using their ground meat alternatives in a hamburger helper is totally fine.

We're not at the point where high quality meat can be replaced, but that doesn't mean the product is worthless.

trhway• 1 year ago

everybody mostly discusses real vs. imitation/vegan, yet i think it has nothing to do with the current BYND situation.

"on an operating basis Beyond Meat lost 45 cents from every dollar of sales."

that is a culprit. Bad management. How else can your plant based product at comparable to meat prices be a loss instead of great profit. Even pure avocados are cheaper than meat. What is better and pricier than avocados do you put into your product? Then it should taste much better than avocados and meat. Yet there is no avocados, it is more like low quality cat/dog food:

"Key components include pea protein, rice protein, and lentil protein, alongside avocado oil, refined coconut oil, and canola oil. Other notable additions include methylcellulose, potato starch, and apple extract. "

That stuff at their prices should be super-profitable.

oezi• 1 year ago

one of the greatest foods on the planet

Given the amount of animal suffering and environmental destruction involved in beef, this great taste shouldn't be taken so lightly. Everyone should make some effort to reduce its consumption.

rgovostes• 1 year ago

When Impossible was new and only available in burger format at a small number of partner restaurants, I ventured out to SF to try two of them. I concluded that it can make for a genuinely convincing substitute, but the key is preparing it with a sleight of hand to misdirect from the noticeable imitation texture and flavor. Those early burgers were made with thin patties, with flavorful burger sauces and toppings.

As Impossible expanded beyond their launch partners, they lost their control over the consumer experience. I think many restaurants now serve wretched Impossible Burgers because they just substitute a beef patty and don't try to accommodate the differences.

If you are savoring it as part of a taste test, it will never fool you; the first impression isn't the takeaway. If beef is not the focal point of the dish, as in their Impossible Mapo Tofu recipe (https://impossiblefoods.com/recipes/impossible-mapo-tofu) or a chili or something, it can slot in pretty well. They are nowhere near substitutes for ribeye steak or smoked brisket.

sampo• 1 year ago

How is their competitor Impossible Foods doing? It's a private company, so we can't as easily look at stock prices.

joelrunyon5• 1 year ago

Not great - https://x.com/joelrunyon/status/1931091407294312956

JoshTriplett4• 1 year ago

You seem to be single-purpose posting to promote your legal case.

dmazin3• 1 year ago

It’s interesting that alternative meat consumption in the U.S. is struggling but taking off in Europe.

One thing I noticed after moving to the UK: alternative milk is normalized here. Like, it’s so common to avoid milk that if you order coffee without specifying, you will be asked what kind of milk you want.

account-5• 1 year ago

What part of the UK does this happen in? I've never been asked this. I can only assume you're in London?

dmazin3• 1 year ago

Woops, sorry, yes, this is in London.

According to Good Food Institute (which is a plant-based food lobbying group), 35% of UK households purchased plant-based milk at least once during 2023 and 33% of UK households bought plant-based meat alternatives at least once during 2023.

https://gfieurope.org/blog/plant-based-meat-and-milk-are-now...

For a less biased source, a 2022 ipsos poll found that 48% of the UK uses alternative milk and 58% " use at least one plant-based meat alternative in their diet".

I think things dropped a bit since then due to cost of living crisis.

https://www.ipsos.com/en-uk/almost-half-uk-adults-set-cut-in...

marliechiller• 1 year ago

As a counter, I cant remember the last time I wasn't asked what milk I'd prefer. In fact, I now prefer oat milk in coffee to regular milk

karahime• 1 year ago

Having lived in both the US and Europe, I have to imagine at least some of that comes down to cost. In Europe, the plant based alternatives (at least where I lived) were actually cheaper, and meaningfully so.

dmazin3• 1 year ago

Interesting, in Britain it's completely the opposite. Alternative milk is way more expensive.

microtonal• 1 year ago

Also, they taste better? I have been a vegetarian since 1999. Even in the small village I lived with my parents, the local supermarket had a meat replacement section. Later I moved to a larger city and the product selection at supermarkets is very large and nice. A few years ago, supermarkets also started carrying Beyond Meat products. We tried them a few times, but they taste absolutely horrible compared to local offerings that have been developed for decades now.

burnt-resistor5• 1 year ago

Here in hill country Texas, even Walmart sells MorningStar corn dogs. H-E-B carries most of the Impossible line including meatballs. I made some dirty rice with the IF ground "beef" and it was awesome. There's almost no oil in it, browning onions and peppers required adding some avocado oil (never use olive oil for high temperature cooking).

PS: I'm a lazy vegetarian who will eat a real burger every few months. When vegan parm and swiss cheese get as good as the real stuff, then I'd go vegan.

JoshTriplett4• 1 year ago

There's almost no oil in the ground beef, so adding some avocado oil while browning onions and peppers was required.

Their sausage works well for that, no added oil needed.

messe• 1 year ago

never use olive oil for high temperature cooking

This is a myth and needs to die. Olive oil is fine at high temperatures, even EVOO.

https://www.seriouseats.com/cooking-with-olive-oil-faq-safet...

jjani6• 1 year ago

When vegan parm and swiss cheese get as good as the real stuff, then I'd go vegan.

Cheese I really doubt will get there any time soon. It's pretty doable to make milk-free cheese alternatives with eggs - at least in terms of taste - which is probably per gram a lot more sustainable than proper cheese, but there wouldn't be any market for it.

Mountain_Skies2• 1 year ago

Part of their financial woes might come from them paying for shelf space at retailers and/or making sale guarantees. A grocery chain will gladly carry a poorly performing product if the manufacturer is paying them to do so.

aziaziazi9• 1 year ago

vegan parm

Have you tried nutritional yeast? I use it everywhere I’d put parm. The taste is a bit different but as much delicious.

cortesoft• 1 year ago

I feel like most coffee shops here in California always ask what type of milk you want, too.

t0mas88• 1 year ago

It's not all of the UK, you get asked in London, not in the countryside. Same in the Netherlands, you get asked in Amsterdam but not much outside.

I guess San Francisco also has much more oatmilk latte's than rural villages

adammarples• 1 year ago

I don't know I've been in Bristol and Cornwall last week and was always asked. I guess you can extend that to anywhere they might reasonably expect a Londoner to turn up.

Marciplan• 1 year ago

It’s very normalized in any of the medium to large cities in the Netherlands.

(take “medium to large” with a grain of salt given that means population of 100k)

rconti2• 1 year ago

Obviously it depends on the venue. We visited many coffee shops on our recent trip through the Baltics and then across Ireland, and were always asked which of 6 "milk" options we wanted.

On the other hand, we were staying in larger cities, stopping in towns along major transit routes, and going to the "kind of coffee shops" where you would expect such a thing.

ricardobayes• 1 year ago

Some high street chains already make some of their products with plant-based milk by default. I was shocked to hear the cow milk being an "option".

low_common• 1 year ago

I live in the US and it's normalized here as well. Not sure where you lived but there's ample variety of dairy alternatives that are offered at grocery stores, coffee shops, etc.

j_timberlake4• 1 year ago

It's just the prices. Normies here are never going to spend more to get an inferior-tasting thing. If it saves money though? Suddenly it's on their radar.

da-x• 1 year ago

Boy, the C-suite that sold in the 2019-2021 peak at $150 a share knew what they were doing.

socalgal22• 1 year ago

My experience with Beyond (~4 years ago), was that it wasn't as good as Impossible. Impossible seemed like meat, Beyond seemed like nuts mashed into paste.

Pikamander2• 1 year ago

Yeah, I never understood the hype for Beyond's products. They must have just had great marketing or something because their meat barely tasted any better than any other frozen veggie burger.

Impossible Foods was always more impressive, both from a taste and scientific perspective. They invested hundreds of millions of dollars into cutting-edge food science, including a new plant-based heme production process. That's in contrast with much of their competition (like Morningstar, or countless other brands) who just slapped together some bean paste and spices and called it a day.

hombre_fatal9• 1 year ago

Beyond has other products that are decent.

Impossible has better patties last I tried.

But Beyond Sausage is good (though expensive). And Beyond Steak chunks are great in tacos: just pop them in an air fryer. It's like $6.50/bag which is enough tacos for two people.

ggm• 1 year ago

Vegetarians and Vegans turn out to prefer less UPF dominant protein in their diet?

Plus, they apparently lost 45c in every $1 of sold product.

Quorn, allergy issue noted, continues. Growing edible fungi in tanks using classic bioreactor methods works, is economically sustainable. TVP likewise. 1960s tech which works at scale.

Me? I liked eating it a bit. I like eating flesh and organ meat, fowl and fish a lot. A lot beats a bit. I like inari sushi too. So it's not I dislike the veg alternatives.

mdaniel3• 1 year ago

I know this is about Beyond but I figure the audience that would care about this article would be interested in looking at Juicy Marbles: https://juicymarbles.com/collections/all-products

I've tried the thick cut filet and just like you're not going to mistake Impossible for actual burger, so too with the filet but it's a good texture and does help fill the longing for steak for me

JumpCrisscross19• 1 year ago

Ingredients make it look like engineered soy. Is there a secret sauce to making it better than meat for someone who doesn’t have that level of ethical granularity?

Klonoar• 1 year ago

Juicy Marbles is legitimately the best plant-based replacement if you're interesting in smoking/BBQ'ing on a grill. I use them for pot-lucks with people.

itsoktocry4• 1 year ago

Top two ingredients: engineered soy and sunflower oil. Yummy.

boston_clone4• 1 year ago

Quite the far cry from the rape and murder required of beef burgers, no?

submeta• 1 year ago

The hidden message of the title: Plant based alternatives may not succeed. I don’t believe that. I rather see more and more friends and people avoid eating meat or reduce their consumption drastically. Many buy plant based alternatives to milk as well. Twenty years ago only a few people would ask for oat/soy milk when ordering a coffee. But these days many do.

I have been eating plant based meat alternatives for four years now, and I am never going to go back to eating meat. Yes, these products may be ultra processed food, but I cannot justify the ecological consequences and the suffering brought upon the animals just so I can eat a piece of their muscle tissue.

Our lifestyle is not sustainable, we have to look for alternatives. And young folks already grow up with a very critical attitude towards meat consumption.

JumpCrisscross19• 1 year ago

Beyond Meat is industrial plant-based protein. The wealthy and upper middle class can afford real plants. That means their market is is poor and lower middle-class folks—hence the distribution through fast food and mid-grade grocery channels.

They’re not buying plant-based proteins. (The conscientious are already eating plants.)

Beyond Meat is broken as a mass-market brand. It should be restructured as a niche play.

young folks already grow up with a very critical attitude towards meat consumption

Statistically insignificant [1].

[1] https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S030691922...

fn-mote• 1 year ago

The wealthy and upper middle class can afford real plants.

I don’t understand this take on what (is / should be) a premium brand.

The whole dismissal doesn’t make sense to me. It’s marketed at well-off former meat eaters.

The poor will live on rice and tofu or pinto beans just like they have for the last hundred plus years.

zahlman7• 1 year ago

The wealthy and upper middle class can afford real plants.

I have never understood the implicit premise here.

I can get a 4 lb. bag of split yellow peas for $6 CAD locally without even trying to look for a sale; most of my supply has been purchased at about $4. By weight, it's on par with raw ground beef for protein content, and 4 lb. of that would cost several times as much.

kaliqt• 1 year ago

It is sustainable.

go_elmo• 1 year ago

Your word, plausible

JumpCrisscross19• 1 year ago

It is. Just not at the rate we consume it.

Cthulhu_• 1 year ago

Plant based alternatives may not succeed. I don’t believe that.

Neither do I, but it's a highly competitive market that competes with both the established industrial meat market, as well as people actually educating themselves on cooking without "meat". I've always seen people buying "meat replacements" as kind of lazy, let's just swap one thing out for another, instead of find / cook something different entirely. I see it as a kind of middle-class virtue signaling, which wasn't helped by the fact the meat replacements are (or used to be, I haven't checked) more expensive than meat. Even though on paper they should be cheaper because growing vegetables should be a lot less resource intensive and more sustainable than the meat equivalent.

grues-dinner• 1 year ago

Soy and oat milk is also incredibly expensive compared to cow for what it is. Same for most supermarket tofu in the West. The cheapest own-brand tofu in Tesco is the same as the beef mince (£6.50/kg).

And even though I like tofu, it's 90% water and that's a terrible deal. A 500g pack of tofu doesn't go nearly as far as 500g of beef mince.

Meanwhile you can buy it in a UK Chinese supermarket for under £3.50 per kg.

happyopossum2• 1 year ago

I've always seen people buying "meat replacements" as kind of lazy

Pretty harsh to expect people to throw away their entire food culture just to cut down on meat consumption.

aydyn3• 1 year ago

Beyond meat burgers taste like flavored plastic grounds, so until these plant based alternatives can close the taste gap its not going to go anywhere. And they have had years to make it taste better, so I suspect theres something fundamental that makes it very difficult.

It is just too much to ask the public to buy worse tasting food at a higher price, all to feel morally better about yourself.

touwer• 1 year ago

That says a lot about the public

aembleton2• 1 year ago

The texture and mouth feel isn't right either.

micromacrofoot2• 1 year ago

can't help but feel like including "plastic" here is just hysteria, I eat them regularly and it's certainly not accurate

buran77• 1 year ago

The hidden message of the title: Plant based alternatives may not succeed.

I don't see this message in there. If you ask me the real message is that companies trying to sell overly processed, way too expensive, imitations of "something" will struggle. They're trying to sell a very expensive mechanical horse. Just give people a car.

Maybe it's a US thing where people are more emotionally attached to the concept of the burger. But I think these companies would be better off selling plant based stuff that doesn't need to be processed to the moon and back with the associated costs, just to imitate the real thing, and still fall short.

Plant based food has been around for millennia, focus on that. More people would eat plant based food if it was more accessible in terms of price and effort to prepare. Imitating a meat burger wastes resources and results in something most meat eaters won't actually find as a good alternative, beyond the novelty factor.

mirsadm2• 1 year ago

Often I think it's largely based on the types of food people grew up with. Meat and potato diets seem to struggle with reducing the meat part of their diet. People often try to eat the same stuff but substitute meat with bad imitations of meat. In other places, as an example, Indian food has plenty of choices without meat and is delicious.

throw140820202• 1 year ago

Maybe they went with burgers because it's low effort: everything else is the same (bun, salad, fries). Just replace the patty, which still goes through the same process.

Again, missing the opportunity that vegetarian/vegan food can be healthier, not just removing of animal cruelty and death.

IAmGraydon• 1 year ago

They're trying to sell a very expensive mechanical horse. Just give people a car.

I love this analogy.

_9ptr• 1 year ago

Well, that is probably just some kind of perception bias.

Of course vegans or vegetarians have more vegan or vegetarian friends.

If it helps you, I know hardly anyone who eats plant base meat.

NoboruWataya• 1 year ago

As a meat eater trying to casually reduce my meat consumption, I find myself buying more tofu, lentils and beans, rather than processed meat-like substitutes. I think that is the issue. People who want to eat meat will just eat actual meat, and people who don't want to eat meat will not feel compelled to eat a meat lookalike.

Trasmatta• 1 year ago

People who want to eat meat will just eat actual meat, and people who don't want to eat meat will not feel compelled to eat a meat lookalike.

This is an extremely strong generalization that is obviously not true in many cases.

lambdaone2• 1 year ago

Delicious vegetarian food is already a thing, and doesn't require new technology, and it's not necessary to completely eliminate meat-eating to significantly reduce your ethical-harm footprint. It's a matter of changing food culture. Once you adapt to an omnivore diet that contains tasty meals from both meat and non-meat cuisine, it's actually quite easy to reduce your meat intake further.

jebarker6• 1 year ago

I was raised as a meat eater and ate it for 30 years. I’ve been vegetarian for about a decade for ethical reasons that I do believe are incompatible with eating any meat. I consider myself a good cook and make vegetarian/vegan meals for my family every night. However: I will never stop thinking that the taste of chicken, pork, beef and lamb are desirable. The conditioning is too strong. Sticking with vegetarianism is still an act of willpower for me. This is why I like meat alternatives.

rebeccaskinner• 1 year ago

The biggest issue to me is that beyond and impossible aren’t just making replacements that are worse than meat, they are making things that are worse than the alternatives we already had.

A beyond burger might be more like meat than a patty made from beans or lentils, but it tastes worse and has a worse nutritional profile. Beyond chicken isn’t even all that similar to chicken and it’s a worse substitute than seitan for something like wings.

hombre_fatal9• 1 year ago

Actually, we'd expect better health outcomes on a plant-based meat patty than real meat: https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/32780794/

Or you could take the position that it's at least noninferior. But you'd have to show the work for how you got to the idea that it's inferior.

2muchcoffeeman• 1 year ago

I think it’s largely a cultural problem though. Good tasting alternatives to meat and vegetarian dishes have existed in other cultures for a long time. But Western cultures, you immediately try and find a facsimile that needs a start up to produce rather than just cook something else.

Same thing with coffee. Just drink black coffee? Nope, let’s work out how to convert nut juice into something that froths using emulsifiers!

brookst• 1 year ago

I think the article is more about one company that over-expanded and now has massive debt and no chance of repaying it.

pdpi• 1 year ago

More like "hyper-processed plant-based faux-meat may not succeed".

Beyond Meat's problem is that they're catering to a tiny, highly-specific niche: people not willing to eat meat but are willing to pay through the nose for hyper-processed fake meat. So their audience is:

1. Vegan or vegetarian 2. Fairly well-off 3. Willing to consume highly-processed foods. 4. Craving a beef burger

This is all sorts of problematic as a combination.

First off, people who have stopped eating red meat (even if they haven't gone vegetarian) tend to really not enjoy the smell of beef, so their craving for a beef burger is under question from the get-go. Second, many vegetarians/vegans made that choice for health reasons (rather than ethical reasons), so "highly processed foods" are a no-go. Once you've cut out those two groups, you only get to keep the wealthier people of the leftovers.

Honestly, as a meat eater who loves vegetarian food, I just don't understand the appeal of fake meat like this. Give me a chana masala or a dal dish instead, any day of the week.

seanmcdirmid• 1 year ago

There are lots of high end vegetarian restaurants in Beijing that focus on fake meat. Pure Lotus is a famous one, that goes over the top on everything. I don’t really get the appeal, I would rather have more vegetarian-honest dishes at a veg place (I’m not a vegetarian)

carstenhag• 1 year ago

And worse: really expensive compared to other brands or store brands. This is my issue with Beyond.

zahlman7• 1 year ago

Many buy plant based alternatives to milk as well. Twenty years ago only a few people would ask for oat/soy milk when ordering a coffee. But these days many do.

There was a period of my life when I went dairy-free as part of investigating some health issues. At first I bought almond milk. It was clearly not an adequate replacement, and rather expensive, so I quickly ended up just dropping it entirely. I can't imagine a point to using these alternatives in coffee (or tea) — I'd sooner use an artificial whitener, or again just go without (although still with plenty of sugar, knowing me).

boston_clone4• 1 year ago

Making almond milk is as easy as blending a handful of almonds with a gallon of water, then straining.

nxpnsv• 1 year ago

BM is getting rarer on the shelves in Austria. When it first showed up, it was something special, but now there are heaps of great other alternative meats, often cheaper and made here. I guess BM is struggling because of increased competition. During my 20 years of plant based dieat it has never been easier to find fancy plant based things.

hombre_fatal9• 1 year ago

Yeah, there is a camp of people who see headlines like this and (giddily) think it spells the demise of plant-based alternatives, probably because since they don't shop plant-based products, their mental concept is stuck 15 years ago where BM was new and experimental, so now they think "heh, not surprised that flopped and we can move on".

But what they don't get is that the market has exploded with competition. Even grocery stores in places like Houston have gone from a couple shelves of vegan products to half-aisles or full-aisles of plant-based food.

Beyond Meat might die in spite of the success of the market it entered into or helped create.

crinkly• 1 year ago

Im not surprised. It doesn’t really fit anywhere.

I’m a vegetarian and have been for about 30 years. None of the fake meat really appealed to me. I don’t factor anything that looks or tastes like meat into my diet. The same is true of other long term vegetarians that I know. I did try the products and they were “meh”.

It suspect it mostly appealed to meat eaters who felt a little guilty about it due to marketing and social pressure. But the expense and the general inferiority of their products was enough for it to wear off quickly. I don’t blame them for not bothering.

I will add I’m not a strict vegetarian - I’ll eat meat in places where it’s not socially understood what vegetarians are. Arguing with some guy in the middle of nowhere in Central Asia about the chunk of horse you just got served isn’t productive. Whatever you want to do is fine.

coolgoose• 1 year ago

I am all for eating more vegetables. But putting ultra processed mashed up shit to replace the real thing just sounds like an avenue for disaster health wise.

newdee• 1 year ago

It is, and people seem to ascribe some implicit goodness to these companies because they’re seen as providing an alternative to an implicitly evil industry and degenerate dietary choice. Truth is, they’re running the same game, just with a less wholesome food product.

mawadev• 1 year ago

Over here, beyond meat is simply more expensive than just buying meat. On top of that, it feels like you eat pure ultra processed product magic chemistry and thats not good. So who exactly is the target audience for that? I'd totally buy it, if it competes with meat prices by being cheaper and if there wasn't so much effort into trying to look like meat and taste like meat, which goes against the entire premise.

intothemild• 1 year ago

My vegetarian wife won't touch the stuff, or any meat substitute. It's too much like meat.

I always believed these things are like nicotine patches/chewables/etc.

hombre_fatal9• 1 year ago

That's not the right way to look at it.

Just because I went vegan doesn't mean I hate the taste of meat. I love the taste of meat. I sometimes treat myself to products that taste like meat.

There is no "final stage veganism" for me where I hold my fingers together in the "X" shape towards anything that reminds me of animal-based foods. And a lot of people seem to think this caricature is realistic based on the amount of times people think they're trolling me on Twitter by posting an image of a sizzling steak.

makingstuffs3• 1 year ago

The problem with Beyond Meat is that it is insanely expensive. I could buy a free range, organic and grass fed beef burger for the price of their ultra processed burger.

Don’t get me wrong, as a vegetarian, I think they taste nice. They are just too damn expensive and not particularly healthy which goes against why I am a vegetarian. In Europe we have so many alternatives that are insanely cheaper and, as an Indian, we have so many alternatives that haven’t been processed to within an inch of their life.

One thing I found to be a great homemade burger maker is simply getting some dried minced soy protein, mix with some eggs, breadcrumbs and seasoning before wrapping in some cling film and pressing it into a patty. Tastes great, holds it shape and has a burger like texture.

raphman• 1 year ago

before wrapping in some cling film and pressing it into a patty

Why do you wrap it? Couldn't you also form the burger patty without the cling film?

whoknowsidont• 1 year ago

Pretty common thing to do to help limit cleanup and help shape the patties (regardless of what they're made of).

makingstuffs3• 1 year ago

It allows you to add some pressure to the patty while providing it a restricted space in which it can expand. By doing so the ingredients seem to form a much stronger bond (from my experience). I used to do the same with beef when I ate it.

Also, rolling it into a ball and then wrapping before flattening gives a much better shape to the resulting patty

bell-cot2• 1 year ago

If you'd rather avoid the single-use-ish plastic, then wax paper usually works as well.

globular-toast2• 1 year ago

Is this really a problem with Beyond Meat or a problem with our policies not correctly pricing meat due to not caring about the environment or animal welfare?

spwa42• 1 year ago

A lot of people would say it is a problem with making the entire population pay for the moral preferences of a few.

wonderwonder• 1 year ago

The market decides the price. We don’t need politicians and biased scientists moralizing about what we can and can’t do and what we should care about.

greatgib• 1 year ago

All in all, despite the fact that it is not real meat, nothing proves that Beyond Meat production is better for the planet. If you factor production materials, energy,... Not sure what it gives.

From what I understood why BM production was limited and expensive is that nothing beats nature. Cow meat manufacturing process was refined by nature for ten of thousands of years to be the most optimized possible.

carlosjobim3• 1 year ago

It's the same policy whether it's real meat patties or beyond meat, because beyond beef has the same main ingredient as the feed for the cattle: soybeans.

j_timberlake4• 1 year ago

Nothing is ever "correctly priced". It's just more obvious with certain markets.

Best example of this is when people say they want to pay "only their fair share of taxes". That's just, not how taxes work...

mgraczyk2• 1 year ago

Why do you believe it's not healthy? Because of the processes food hysteria stuff?

fakedang4• 1 year ago

It's not hysteria. Beyond Meat uses way too much processing in their food. They literally have patented processes to alter protein structures.

makingstuffs3• 1 year ago

No, nothing to do with hysteria. We simply have not had access to the substance long enough to be able to accurately say what the long term effects on health are and I cannot help but to assume that there has been a lot of unnatural processing in-order to turn a small, green, pea into a patty which resembles beef.

Processing isn’t bad, as such. Turning beef from a steak into mince is processing and it is fine. But unnatural processing (as I call it) which requires labs and loads of chemicals which we wouldn’t otherwise consume is only logical to presume as unhealthy.

thoroughburro• 1 year ago

By “processes food hysteria stuff”, do you mean “the growing research consensus around ultra-processed foods”?

giantg24• 1 year ago

It was more unhealthy in the past due to the sodium, saturated fat, and possibly some of the additives/preservatives. It was unhealthy enough that the company even changed to a new formula with avocado oil, which might be better, but I haven't looked into it.

Findecanor• 1 year ago

Many vegetarian meat substitutes, including the Beyond Burger, contains methylcellulose. It is one of several emulsifiers both often associated with "ultra-processed foods", and known from several studies to affect the mucus lining the intestinal wall, increasing the risk for infection and suspected of increasing cancer risk.

Being a vegetarian, after having suffered colon cancer twice, I now too eat only burger patties I've made myself (similar recipe to the one above), and also use only real mayo and sour cream, so as to avoid those emulsifiers.

Edit: Downvote, why? Because I am a vegetarian?

evrimoztamur2• 1 year ago

Besides ultra-processed foods 'hysteria,' basic ratios I consider here are:

- protein to fat (which is roughly 1.4 in Beyond Meat (20g protein / 14g fat in 100g) versus 2.5-3.5 in beef (30±5g protein / 12.5±2.5g fat in 100g)) - protein to mass (20% vs ~30%) - micro-nutrients to mass (a very wide variety of minerals, vitamins, and other unknown nutrients present in beef) - carbohydrates (not present in substantial amounts in meat and around the same amounts in tofu/tempeh as in Beyond Meat; but I don't think it's as major a statistic as previous ratios)

I eat chiefly vegetarian, and refuse to see why Beyond Meat exists beyond 'we can do it and it may get more people to eat vegetarian.'

The industrial overhead of producing Beyond Meat and all the effort that went into creating it simply doesn't make sense to me compared to beans and plant-based protein friends like tempeh/tofu/seitan. Latter are an order of magnitude more scalable than both Beyond Meat and Regular Meat.

All the processing plants and factories built to make this ultra-processing possible, the logistics and supply chains set up to bring all the necessary additives and components together, the grandiose packaging and marketing efforts... I don't get it. It's not a product made for a real audience.

_fat_santa• 1 year ago

I'm not personally a vegetarian though I cook for vegetarians quite often and my reason for not using it more philosophical: if you're going to cook vegetarian, stop looking at what you can't use and start looking at what you can use.

Like for example the other day I made a vegan version of my pasta and meat sauce recipe but instead of trying to use a meat alternative like beyond meat, I reached for some mushrooms and end up having my guests ask if I accidentally made the dish with ground beef because the texture and consistency was so similar.

It's not that beyond meat is bad but why reach for something that's had god knows what done to it versus: mushrooms, where the only "processing" is ripping them out of the ground and washing them.

graublau4• 1 year ago

Processed food concerns are hysterical is a unique take

Frost1x• 1 year ago

There’s not much hysteria in that highly processed foods tend to give less satiety relative to both their calorie density and nutrient content (since your digestive process and signals don’t trip the same way they do with whole foods).

That alone is a good enough reason to avoid highly processed foods in many cases. It’s not always true, but it’s more often true than not.

Spooky234• 1 year ago

Pea protein and coconut oil aren’t the greatest. Probably similar to meat.

libertine2• 1 year ago

I could buy a free range, organic and grass fed beef burger for the price of their ultra processed burger.

In many countries, it's a heavily subsidized industry. Even if you have VC funds, it's not the same as being backed by country subsidies.

To be clear, I'm not making a judgment, just saying that meat would probably be a lot more expensive.

npteljes5• 1 year ago

I think that for this exact reason Beyond Meat (or other alternatives) need a similar boost, in order to be financially competitive as well.

robertoandred• 1 year ago

getting some dried minced soy protein, mix with some eggs, breadcrumbs and seasoning before wrapping in some cling film and pressing it into a patty

Sounds like processing to me

mind-blight5• 1 year ago

Cool, we have a semantics issue. Processing can mean "any change to a food item" such as chopping, cooking, etc. In these kinds of conversations, it's often used as "significant alterations that are not possible or common outside of a food lab". E.g. I can do cured meats, or add corn starch to a soup at home. I'm not going to make partially hydrogenated oils or pink slime for chicken nuggets.

If you're being genuine and trying to point out that it's difficult to draw a clear line between "good" and "bad" processing - absolutely! Processes that have been used for a long time (decades, hundreds, or thousands of years) are generally well understood and safer. Newer processes and changes have risks. So, "can I do this in my kitchen" is a great heuristic for trying to walk a very fuzzy line.

If you're deliberately misunderstanding the intent to further an argument, get outta here with that BS :P

kaladin-jasnah• 1 year ago

The company's products in my and other people's views have caused a significant wane in vegetarian and vegan burger diversity. Gone are the chickpea and black bean burgers on menus—your only choice is Beyond Meat-esque burgers.

As someone who doesn't actually really like how Beyond Meat tastes, it's unfortunate that it's the only option sometimes. As someone who likes food variety and practically needs it, eliminating choice is the worst.

I have to concur about processing as well. Indian cuisine has so many unprocessed and nutritious meals that are vegetarian. So does Ethiopian cuisine. Mediterranean foods, Tex-mex, and lots of South American food can be made vegetarian. There are great ideas for burgers from here too. See https://www.shopdeepfoods.com/product/aloo-tikki-141-oz?pid=....

I've wanted to try some of the NYTimes vegetarian and vegan burger recipes when I get the chance. My point is, Beyond Meat seems to reduce the better-testing and less processed competition.

null0ranje• 1 year ago

Ive never understood the drive to make meat substitutes instead of celebrating vegetarian cuisine. I’m not a vegetarian, but if I eat some dish that is vegetarian, why wouldn’t I want to celebrate the vegetable itself made from instead of trying to make some fake meat that never quite hits the mark?

mind-blight5• 1 year ago

Can't agree enough. I just don't think that beyond meat is good. I'm a meat eater who grew up vegetarian and still enjoy eating vegetarian food. A well done black bean burger (my favorite blend is with quinoa) is delicious. I'd eat that over a regular burger plenty of times.

If I went full vegetarian again, I'd stick with the classics - they taste so much better.

Spooky234• 1 year ago

I agree.

I’m not a vegetarian by any means but really enjoyed many of the vegetarian items inspired by things like burgers. I often found them a great vessel for hot sauce as a condiment v. ketchup on meat.

coro_1• 1 year ago

Aggressively marketing the imitation meat is what opened up market share for the products in the grocery marts and how they got on menus. Marketing up ramp for subpar products is too common.

The US is primed for this. Buy the market, invest a lot, then invest less in the product. Hate to say, RFK may be on to, some things. Plain Heinz catsup in Canada makes the US versions (plural) just seem sort of gross.

PaulHoule3• 1 year ago

I also don't see it as much better than Boca Burgers or Quorn or many other earlier generation products never mind tofu, tempeh, seitan all of which can be great on a bed of rice or as sandwich fillers.

Ecologist Howard Odum developed a system of environmental accounting based on tracing energy back to the sun

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emergy

a calorie of vegetarian food is estimated to require 200,000 calories worth of sunlight when you factor in energy to drive the wind, make rain, all of that.

Invariably there is part of a product or service that you can't account for in detail so you take the remaining dollar cost and multiply it by the emergy/$ ratio for the economy as a whole.

Although you can argue a "cheap" product has a price that is subsidized or doesn't represent externalities, this leads to the corollary that an outrageously expensive product is not green because the money is a license for somebody to do things that impact the environment be it the employees driving around in a big-ass pickup truck or the executives or investors flying in private jets.

There's that and there's also the fact that most people's main objection to meat substitutes is high cost.

hakfoo• 1 year ago

Existing veggie burgers were sort of trapped by trying to present themselves as "close enough to beef". You will be lapped by a more accurate replacement. It makes me think of Boca Burgers-- I used to enjoy one occasionally as a carnivore, but I wonder if they're still around with Beyond Meat and Impossible on the chain menus.

If you're not going to emulate beef exactly, own that and sell a different experience. I'd love to see something more like "stuffing fritters"-- strongly seasoned meatless patties with different tastes and textures. Nobody would be fooled they're burgers, but nobody is claiming they are either.

I could even see expanding the market beyond vegetarians by presenting them as a supplement for conventional burgers and chicken-patty sandwiches as a topping to add more flavour.

That was always another problem with meatless products-- they didn't get a great anchor with the mass market (who wasn't looking for explicitly vegetarian) so they remained expensive, narrow-distribution specialty products. If the regular burger is $5.50 and the Beyond Meat is $7.50, it's an even harder sell to the mainstream consumer outside of buying one as a novelty once.

j_timberlake4• 1 year ago

I'd always hoped they'd bring the price down over time as economies of scale kick in, but man did that not happen. What a shame.

trymas• 1 year ago

I am on a same boat. Beyond meat is extremely expensive. Also from personal experience it neither appeals to vegetarians/vegans (too meat like, with sometimes “bloody” look) nor meat eaters (more expensive than the real thing, fake).

But the biggest gripe for me - it greatly shows how much meat and dairy farming is subsidised (at least where I live). When chicken meat is 4-5€/kg (i see ofen discounts on chicken breast/wings for 2-3€/kg) and grains (rice, buckwheat) are ~3€/kg it just doesn’t make sense to me. Similar with milk vs alternative milks.

Hence it doesn’t at all surprise me if you do some “lab grown” meat alternatives from plant proteins - you will have 5x more expensive product (if not more).

With all this technological advancements it seems bizarre that we as a humanity still spend so much earth resources on growing animals for slaughter. I know it will not disappear and I don't wish that, but the amount of problems it causes is insane. Diseases (swine flu and avian flu are never ending problems, mad cow disease is one of the scariest things), completely destroyed water sources from pollution, overuse of antibiotics (because of prevalent infections and unsanitary conditions), etc.

boston_clone4• 1 year ago

Sounds like you've been successfully co-opted by Berman's propaganda [0].

Looking at my local grocer, Impossible Beef is currently cheaper per pound than several of the organic ground beef options. There is also consensus among American dietitians that vegan diets are suitable for all stages of life. Further, "ultra processed" does not have a common definition - could you share how Impossible Beef is so much different than TVP?

Even TFA talks about this onslaught of misinformation - "CEO Ethan Brown has alleged significant “misinformation and misdirection” about the health profile of plant-based meat, and Beyond Meat has gone on the offensive to refute claims that its products are too processed.".

0. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Center_for_Organizational_Rese...

cloudbonsai2• 1 year ago

So the biggest problem here is that Beyond Meat has a huge debt due in just 2 years:

    That’s a problem given that $1 billion in convertible bonds come due in March 2027. Beyond Meat has no way to repay that debt, and the credit markets know it: The bonds currently trade at about 17 cents on the dollar.

To put the "$1B" number into the context, Beyond Meat sold $300M worth of plant-based meats last year, and made a net operating loss of $156M. Their total assets are $600M, and the market capitalization is only $260M as of today.

If they could magically become profitable at 10% profit margin, it would take 20+ years to repay the debt. It's hopeless.

chronogram2• 1 year ago

That's got to be an incredible expenditure then. Considering their pricing compared to the better store brand alternatives, while not lacking any scale disadvantages, I expect high margins on the products themselves.

bartread3• 1 year ago

And this as well:

The company expects the figure to reach about $330 million in 2025, roughly 10% higher than it was six years earlier despite a huge increase in the number of products offered.

It’s not like they have any growth potential to speak of that would enable them to service that debt.

It’s a bit hard to see who their target market is or, rather, it’s a bit hard to see that the market segment they’re aiming for is big enough for them to grow at an appreciable rate. To me it reads like they just didn’t do their homework up-front - e.g., an in depth segmentation - in determining their addressable market.

Vegetarians and vegans I know want protein sources in their diets but they don’t necessarily want meat substitutes, so perhaps BM’s products aren’t that appealing to them.

Meat eaters possibly have low awareness of BM and, unless they’re particularly principled - and wealthy enough to absorb the additional cost - are unlikely to pay the same price, or more (at least here in the UK), for meat substitutes than they’d pay for actual meat.

Moreover, people I know who are trying to cut down on meat, like their veggie and vegan counterparts, mostly aren’t looking for meat substitutes in their meat-free meals either.

If BM’s products were more affordable and better advertised they’d have a better chance at widespread adoption but it’s very hard to plot a route from where they are now to there. Also, this doesn’t solve for the portion of the market who aren’t looking for explicitly meaty meat substitutes.

As you say, it does appear hopeless.

(FWIW, I’ve eaten BM burgers on several occasions. They’re excellent but I’m not normally willing to pay the premium for them versus actual beef patties, or making our own.)

jebarker6• 1 year ago

I would guess the primary target market is ex meat eaters that are trying to go vegetarian but have been raised to enjoy the taste/texture of meat. I am in this group. I agree it’s not a very large market for the reasons you stated above. However, maybe BM hoped they could grow that market, I.e. convince more meat eaters to give it up for ethical reasons.

twic2• 1 year ago

I think the company was a bet that if you make a good enough meat substitute, then meat eaters will switch to it (sometimes), and that's a huge total addressable market. I would say that bet has not come off. But that's hindsight - the whole point of startups is to take bets.

zahlman7• 1 year ago

Vegetarians and vegans I know want protein sources in their diets but they don’t necessarily want meat substitutes, so perhaps BM’s products aren’t that appealing to them.

When Beyond Meat announced their IPO, I can recall thinking quite distinctly: "wait, this isn't the Impossible Burger. They aren't even making any kind of breakthrough in the 'convincing meat substitute' department in the first place. And this stuff is expensive. Who tf is this for?"

Moreover, people I know who are trying to cut down on meat, like their veggie and vegan counterparts, mostly aren’t looking for meat substitutes in their meat-free meals either.

It's true. I eat probably considerably less meat than I did many years ago. Which is to say, still in generous portions, but not every day (I still freely eat dairy). When I supplement with vegetable sources of protein, I'm just preparing legumes (and grains) normally, without even the slightest desire to make them "meat-like".

I've had "ordinary" vegetarian burgers before. I don't even evaluate them as a substitute, but as their own thing.

cloudbonsai2• 1 year ago

If BM’s products were more affordable

One thing worth noting here is that, contrary to the popular belief, Beyond Meat is not a high-margin business.

You can check out their latest financial result (2025 1Q) to confirm this:

  First Quarter 2025 Financial Highlights

  - Net revenues were $68.7 million, a decrease of 9.1% year-over-year.

  - Gross profit was a loss of $1.1 million, or gross margin of -1.5%, compared to gross profit of $3.7 million, or gross margin of 4.9%, in the year-ago period.

https://investors.beyondmeat.com/news-releases/news-release-...

Basically they are spending $95-101 to produce $100-worth of plant meat. Compared to traditional meat companies, Homel (SPAM) is operating at 20% gross margin and Pilgrim (chicken) is at 10%.

BM is barely profitable even before sales and administrative expenses.

mettamage• 1 year ago

If they could magically become profitable at 10% profit margin, it would take 20+ years to repay the debt. It's hopeless.

Why is that hopeless? Maybe I'm too green or optimistic but that just requires long-term planning.

Also inflation will make it a bit easier.

One thing I find tough for them personally is that I like the Impossible burger a lot more. I find Beyond meat not tasting like meat, not enough. Since that's the case, I'd rather just have any mushroom/whatever veggie burger. I wonder how other consumers perceive this.

happyopossum2• 1 year ago

Why is that hopeless?

because you can’t take 20 years to pay off debt that is due in 2 years.

bossyTeacher• 1 year ago

Why is that hopeless? Maybe I'm too green or optimistic but that just requires long-term planning.

They don't have 20 years to pay it off. Debt is due in 2 years

ChrisRR• 1 year ago

As they just said. They sold $300M, and made a loss of $150M

bell-cot2• 1 year ago

If they could magically ... it would take 20+ years ...

It's worse than that - 10% profit on $300M sales is only $30M/year.

Vs. "risk-free" US Treasury bonds currently yield 4% to 5% - so parking $1B there would earn you $40M to $50M per year.

Nobody's insane enough to loan money to Beyond Meat at US Treasury rates. And even if someone was - Beyond would still fall deeper into debt every year, because they couldn't even keep up with the interest.

airstrike• 1 year ago

Debt can always be restructured.

BurningFrog• 1 year ago

The impossible to pay debt just means the company goes bankrupt and new owners can keep operating it without the debt.

That they lose 45 cents from every dollar of sales is the killer.

chasd00• 1 year ago

That they lose 45 cents from every dollar of sales is the killer.

Was it always that bad? If so, how did the business get past the spreadsheet model phase? There’s no way the typical corp “re-org” fixes that.

findthewords• 1 year ago

Plant-based protein will not succeed as long as government subsidize meat production.

epolanski• 1 year ago

So if I buy their very cheap convertible bond, they either repay it (they won't) or they give me lots of equity?

aembleton2• 1 year ago

Or you take a hair cut if the majority of bond holders agree.

pfdietz• 1 year ago

What I would like to see in a fake meat is a product engineered to have lower level of histidine, since there is evidence that gut microorganism processing of histidine creates a chemical that causes atherosclerosis.

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=44595008

aszantu• 1 year ago

I kinda think beyond meat is for ppl who care about taste. You can fake meat taste and texture much cheaper.

For ppl who care about nutrients, artificial meat seemingly gets more expensive and you also need licenses probably and what not.

Health wise it's in your own best interest to eat animals that fave been able to forage and graze in the sun. See Vitamin d and so on. Those ppl won't buy factory slurry.

petesergeant• 1 year ago

Headline here is not true; in fact:

the end of Beyond Meat stock doesn’t mean the end of the Beyond Meat business ... reorganized company can continue its work, and perhaps even go public again in the future

The stock price is simply unnaturally low because there's a decent chance it'll go through Chapter 11 soon.

sub7• 1 year ago

The FDA already allows far too much salt and preservatives in US food supplies and this fake meat stuff is an absurd amount of salt that will 100% give you a heart attack very very early if you eat it regularly.

Just like the drug ads on TV, this is one of those situations where industry must be reigned in before the market discovers the truth.

Marsymars• 1 year ago

The FDA already allows far too much salt and preservatives in US food supplies and this fake meat stuff is an absurd amount of salt that will 100% give you a heart attack very very early if you eat it regularly.

A Beyond Burger has ~300 mg sodium. You could eat one every day and come in well under the recommended daily allowance of sodium as long as the rest of your diet is appropriate.

maxglute• 1 year ago

Not surprised. Expensive, taste like shit. Nice Asian vegetarian food exist. A always seemed like stupid amount of resources a d effort to cater to burger markets.

anovikov• 1 year ago

This is a poster child of ZIRP one step away from Juicero.

lazylizard2• 1 year ago

i cannot understand the urge to compete with the pig or cow or chicken (especially) for meat production. they are so good at turning feed into meat.

why not plant based lobster, crab, sea cucumber or sea urchin or sharks fin or something similar. that is unproductive? or impossible to farm? and perhaps even endangered? something that plant based processes are closer to competing on price.

andyjohnson0• 1 year ago

i cannot understand the urge to compete with the pig or cow or chicken (especially) for meat production. they are so good at turning feed into meat.

Because they are living, somewhat sentient, animals that are capable of suffering. And using them as a food source requires that we kill them on a large scale.

And because industrial-scale meat production causes huge suffering to the animals caught-up in it, as well as serious environmental damage.

lazylizard2• 1 year ago

there's not much market for that apparently..

apexalpha• 1 year ago

It's insane to me that they're struggling despite the burgers being more expensive than actual meat in my supermarket.

They taste nice, sure. But my supermarket now also has Mushroom burgers, lentil burgers, normal soya burgers... All for 1/3 of the price.

The premium product of vegatarian meat is meat, not more expensive veggie meat, it seems.

Personally I think this will become that premium spot: mosameat.com

But who knows, it's too early to tell.

giantg24• 1 year ago

Whether they taste nice is debatable. They had an odd aftertaste for me. I would much rather have a good mushroom or black bean burger. They taste better to me, are cheaper, and probably more healthy.

pif• 1 year ago

That's good news, fake products need to die. We already have real meat and real vegetables, and both are wonderful things.

We don't need this idiot fad of eating one of them while conving us that we are eating the other.

throw140820202• 1 year ago

I recently travelled the US (California, Arizona, Utah, Ohio), I found it really hard to find vegan options. Some restaurants that used to sell vegan burgers or vegan options have stopped (McDonalds, Applebees) - because not enough people ordered them. Some restaurants that have Beyond Meat burger patties as on option "don't have any in stock" - probably for the same reason.

According to GPT o4-mini, these are the restaurants that have stopped in the past few years: Habit Burger & Grill; McDonald’s; Carl’s Jr.; TGI Fridays; Del Taco; Denny’s; Dunkin’; Wendy’s.

I will say beyond meat tasted pretty good, and I would prefer to eat that than to go hungry at US restaurants. But it's very expensive and very annoying to cook at home (smoky). Not sure how healthy it is either - highly processed?

Also, people who are vegetarian/vegan know the health benefits. They're not going to pay more to get less healthy.

AnotherGoodName2• 1 year ago

Beyond is hard to buy in supermarkets too. Whole Foods doesn't stock it at all and many others never have it in store even if the chain does technically stock it online. I just want it because it's 0 cholesterol and tastes the same as meat to me.

This is probably the cause of their problems. You need to be one of the big food brands to have leverage to get it on shelves in a prominent position and they are small.

thom2• 1 year ago

Hate these burgers. As a dairy-loving vegetarian, first the vegans came along and ruined everything by evicting most of the tasty options from restaurants, and then the meat eaters somehow wanted vegan food that tasted of animals and that became the default option on many menus. Vegetarians (who I grant you are difficult to pity as the centrists of the food world) got utterly screwed.

lanfeust64• 1 year ago

If the supposed tastier option is black bean burgers, can't say I agree, and I eat black beans all the time.

9dev7• 1 year ago

If you’re consuming lots of dairy, and became vegetarian to avoid animal suffering, you can just as well eat meat. Not much of a difference ethically.

dolebirchwood• 1 year ago

That's cool. But "avoiding animal suffering" isn't the only reason people stop eating meat.

Sometimes the reason is as simple as: I just think meat is gross. No judgment on anyone else who eats it.

thom2• 1 year ago

I was brought up vegetarian.

merry_flame• 1 year ago

Ridiculous. Dropping meat is upwards of 90 pc of the welfare impact.

pjs_• 1 year ago

Beans dude. Beans are absolutely delicious. They grow in the ground by accident. A good bean burger is way more appetizing than a biosludge patty. Unfortunately nobody is getting rich selling beans. But they are all we need here

9dev7• 1 year ago

Chock full of nutrients and protein too!

msarrel• 1 year ago

They're charging more than beef for something that is just as unhealthy. It's amazing they lasted this long.

azalemeth• 1 year ago

Here's a really good vegan burger recipe: caramelise about three large red onions with garlic, salt, pepper and olive oil. Drain a tin of red kidney beans, keep the liquid, mash together with fried onions, add about 100g of breadcrumbs, a teaspoon of Dijon mustard, chilli powder, and a pinch of allspice. Add aquafaba or breadcrumbs to adjust consistency. Press into round shapes. Fry (about six minutes).

Cost: three onions, one tin of beans, some old bread, negligible spices. Yield: four delicious, fresh, very healthy burgers.

I am a lifelong vegetarian and the likes of beyond meat are just frankly disgusting to me. They're expensive, upf, have a horrid texture, and aren't aimed at me. But I guess that's the point -- their target market is "real men" who want to try being vegan for a while, not the likes of me. Yet I fear real men don't want to get the message and the demographic who are veggie or vegan have better, cheaper, nicer alternatives.

1024core• 1 year ago

As a vegetarian, the problem with Beyond Meat (and other such products) is that they're too close to the original. I'm a vegetarian; I don't want to eat meat. If what I'm eating tastes too close to meat, I begin doubting it. It has happened several times in the past where I've been served (real) meat when I explicitly asked for a non-meat version (e.g. "beef burrito" instead of "bean burrito", etc.)

This is why I avoid Beyond Meat (and Impossible) products: too close for comfort.

Vegetables and grains have a great taste in themselves; they don't need to imitate meat to be tasty!

why_at• 1 year ago

As a vegan, hard disagree. I prefer impossible because it tastes even more like meat.

I love vegetables and grains too. Tofu and lentils etc. are delicious but sometimes I just want a burger.

zavec• 1 year ago

I think this will vary largely based on individual opinion. Many vegetarians will feel the same way as you of course.

I'm currently trying to minimize my meat consumption where feasible based on some other factors, for several years in the past have been a stricter vegetarian as well. My motives for that are and were entirely based on cruelty and environmental concerns, so for me (and again, I suspect many other people who are vegetarian for their own combination of reasons) being close to the real thing isn't a downside at all.

woodpanel2• 1 year ago

The Beyond Meat story for me is a boon since its IPO. I made a good fortune betting against the post-IPO rally.

Let's not forget how, in the late 2010s, VC money successfully pushed the idea that Beyond Meat et al didn't just taste as good as what it mimmicks, but that it acutally tastes better.

Then-Celebrety Chef David Chang even said "it melted my brain" (Impossbile Foods). Chain stores around the world fell over each other to first announce stocking their shelves with it, then told their customers they had to wait due to too much demand in existing markets, and ultimately that they won't be selling any actual meat at all in in a couple of years.

It was the full display of top-to-bottom class-war, elitist groupthink drooling over the power to pull a staple of our cuisine, culture and life quality from us – exactly because we like it. And then shove super processed improvements into the mouths of the dull plebs. And make a killing with eyewatering stock prices of up to 190 USD.

zahlman7• 1 year ago

I made a good fortune betting against the post-IPO rally.

How did you decide when the rally was over?

woodpanel2• 1 year ago

May 2019 is when they launched in Germany and by looking at the shelves during the coming months it was obvious that BYND's then-market-cap of over 10B USD was unsustainable. Shelves were being emptied out quickly by customers at the start. By the end of the summer though, these new types of patties (whether BYND or its competitors) had more discount/sale stickers on it than the average carpet store window.

To be fair: Price actually returned to that valuation a year later during Covid but by then I wasn't exposed and didn't bother to double down. Probably bad financial behaviour, since I was betting against "the market can be incorrect longer than you can remain solvent", but the visibility of it's products vis-a-vis the hype, and the unlikelyness to me that a patty of hyperprocessed legumes could ever achieve a moat large enough to sustain such a market cap, gave me confidence that with BYND sanity would return to markets rather sooner along side the first quaterly results.

konfusinomicon• 1 year ago

beyond meat is people!

CodeWriter23• 1 year ago

Maybe they should simply stop fighting against survival.

j_timberlake4• 1 year ago

On a positive note, if you eat non-meat alternatives, you both avoid funding more factory-farming and you also help fund better non-meat options. You can't make much difference, but it's not like this is the only thing going on in your life anyway.

pedalpete• 1 year ago

All of the hamburger and chicken-finger alternative meat companies missed the lesson where you want to target a high-dollar small market first, and then spread from there.

There is WAY too much competition from regular meat, to bean/tofu/other vegetarian options that alternative meat just can't compete with on price.

From what I've seen, Vow (https://www.eatvow.com/) are the only company that has taken a different approach and gone ultra-high end with their "cultured meats". Rather than trying to re-create a simple burger, they've made meats that can't exist in the real world. Their Japanese Qual Foix Gras has been available in Singapore for a while now and is coming to Sydney this month (I believe).

This product is only sold at ultra-high end restaurants where people want the experience and are willing to pay for it.

Vow didn't need to scale manufacturing to huge levels and try to boil the ocean all at once. They have a step by step plan ala Tesla where they start with the ultra-small scale very expensive foods, then move slightly down market, and continue until they are able to make affordable mass-market cultured foods for everyone.

exabrial• 1 year ago

Putting ultra ultra ultra processed food in one’s body is not a good idea.

thecolorblue• 1 year ago

There are multiple companies that went public in that 2019 - 2021 time frame that have negative EBITDA and are hard to price because of it.

Ginkgo Bioworks, IPO Date: Sept. 2021, EBITDA: -$325m Rivian, IPO Date: Nov. 2021, EBITDA: -$455m

Beyond Meat has seen less growth than their some of these examples, but my conclusion is still the same: it would have been better for them to find their footing as a private company, then use the IPO money to expand, rather than to pour the IPO money into R&D. Publicly trading stock causes more overhead and restricts the companies ability to pivot. Investors, founders, and employees are able to cash out before the real value has been created. The money generated does not guarantee longer term success or better long term investments as much as they thought it would.

I am still bullish on many of these companies but if I were to get in my time machine back to 2019, I would have avoided investing.

coyotebob• 1 year ago

I've been vegan since 2014. I rarely eat those plant-base burgers, but do on occasion. One of the brands changed formulations and now doesn't even taste like a burger any longer. I bought pre-grilled Beyond burgers and they the better of the two.. For me, burgers are a treat. Most of the time I eat beans, fruit and vegetables.

Havoc• 1 year ago

They changed their recipe about a year back and now I regret it every time I buy one of their beyond burgers. Guessing they were going for smokey bbq vibe but it's just not pleasant

Beyond Meat fights for survival

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