What do wealthy people buy, that ordinary people know nothing about? (2015)

https://old.reddit.com/r/AskReddit/comments/2s9u0s/comment/cnnmca8/

by Tomte • 1 year ago

327 754 1 year ago

old.reddit.com

Wrong question, boring answer.

I wake up every day with my best friend. We have been together for so long, we have regularly similiar thoughts on things.

If i even want to know this, i want to hear the real people using their money in a way that i'm envy.

There was a documentary on netflix about a guy who was diving in the ocean in front of his house and befriended an octopus.

Besides this story (its well made), i had the feeling this person made it. Beautiful house, self care routine and the opportunity (which he actually uses) to use the ocean every day.

malfist• 1 year ago

You don't have to read or engage with something you don't like.

jbverschoor• 1 year ago

Resident Alien S02E06 octopus :)

throwaway713• 1 year ago

I saw that Reddit post a while back. It’s interesting, but I wonder how much it really applies to all of the super wealthy. There are certainly billionaires and centimillionaires who reject that lifestyle out of hand (I know I certainly would). The average person doesn’t know their name and they prefer it that way. Even the local billionaire near where I lived for a while was pretty modest, all considered (his kids not so much). I was surprised to see him and his family sit down next to mine at a restaurant one day. Could overhear him talking about the local farmers market and commenting about the tomatoes of the season haha

borski• 1 year ago

What wealth buys you is the freedom and opportunity to make that choice. It’s not that you have to use your influence; it’s that if your local billionaire whose name nobody knew decided to make a phone call or two, people would still pick up his call.

That isn’t true for your local plumber.

macNchz• 1 year ago

There is certainly a wide spectrum in how people behave, and an important factor is also how they would like to be perceived by others. Rundowns on how wealthy people live will tend to overindex on the behavior of people who want others to know they’re wealthy.

As an example, there’s a culture among what people refer to as "old money" families in the US northeast (with generational wealth from long ago), wherein they tend to avoid seeming outwardly wealthy or really talking about money at all…generally aiming to project an unpretentious vibe, eschewing designer clothes and driving 20 year old Volvos, but still spending vacations at long-owned family getaways worth tens of millions, flying first or charter, and send their kids to specific, expensive schools to socialize with others of similar backgrounds.

Loughla• 1 year ago

The local billionaires here own a large family business. The founders (parents) were great people. They lived life poor for the first 50 years of their lives. They were super down to earth.

The next generation are mostly good people. They're involved in politics at the state level and have some philanthropic organizations that really do good work with zero strings attached.

The grandkids, who all have known nothing but having immense wealth are garbage humans. They're entitled, awful, mean spirited assholes. Every. Last. One. They frequent local businesses, and the number of times I've heard, "don't you know who I am" is astounding.

The business mostly runs itself at this point, but I genuinely fear for the future in this area. There's already undercurrents of the family using its connections to bail out one of the grandkids when he was drunk driving. I believe the first murder will happen within the next decade.

The grandparents would be absolutely horrified if they saw what their family was turning into.

martinpw• 1 year ago

The grandparents would be absolutely horrified if they saw what their family was turning into.

I wonder if they somewhat expected it. The 'third generation curse' is a widely known effect. Question is whether there is anything that could have been done to avoid it.

KolibriFly5• 1 year ago

There's definitely a whole spectrum, and not every ultra-wealthy person is out there collecting yachts and private islands. Some just want comfort, privacy, and to be left alone to enjoy the little things

rco87862• 1 year ago

There is literally nothing you can't buy except. Love.

I feel like Elon is finding this part out the hard way lately.

junon• 1 year ago

Given what we know about how he goes about making children, I don't really think love is the objective with Elon.

hshshshshsh• 1 year ago

There are no objectives. Just conditioned patterns one adapt to survive childhood.

notahacker• 1 year ago

You'd think he'd have enough accolades without shooting for the title of "world's most fecund incel"...

rco87862• 1 year ago

I think everybody wants to be loved

thunky• 1 year ago

And youth/health. Trump may think he's on top of the world but I bet he'd trade it all away to be 25 rather than on his last leg.

userbinator• 1 year ago

Possible counterexample: Larry Ellison, although he's at least an order of magnitude richer than Trump.

fy20• 1 year ago

I'd disagree, once you get wealthy (and it doesn't even need to be that much), you can:

- schedule beauty appointments to fix how you look

- go on coaching sessions to increase your confidence and how you socialize

- take people out on dates without thinking "oh that's a bit expensive"

- buy dating coaches who understand the psychology behind dating and successful relationships

- buy therapists to heal your past traumas

Love is still not guaranteed, but you can do a lot to increase your odds.

harrall• 1 year ago

But usually when I buy something, (e.g. someone to change my oil), it’s so I don’t have to think about it anymore.

To me, that is not “buying love.” I buy so I don’t have to do any work.

4gotunameagain4• 1 year ago

Just make sure to not mention all those efforts to your date partner, lest she cringes out of existence :)

tokioyoyo• 1 year ago

All of that doesn’t buy the time you spend with your loved ones, laughing at stupid jokes or reminiscing about good times.

HardCodedBias4• 1 year ago

I really like this post since it shows how very little there is for the wealthy to buy other than status goods.

The life of the rich, other than status, is very much like the life of upper middle class. The same phones, the same digital entertainment, the same appliances in their homes.

We have very few items for the rich to buy. Honestly, it is a problem it breaks incentives and it drives the rich more towards status goods which help no one since they are zero sum.

We should have expensive products which actually improve lives.

candiddevmike3• 1 year ago

Yet people still hate the thought of a "maximum wage" or limit to wealth. Everyone should have a life of comfort, not just those who won the lottery or were born into it.

andrewrn• 1 year ago

The problem with a maximum wage is deciding what that maximum is. Outsides returns are what incentivize people to start companies. A earning cap will cap that incentive accordingly.

SpicyLemonZest2• 1 year ago

People hate the thought because it's repeatedly failed to work historically, with even explicitly Marxist states deciding that it's best to allow some billionaires.

refurb3• 1 year ago

It’s easy to determine what income would be if everyone made the same amount - average income, which is $72,000 per worker.

That includes everyone who filed a tax return from the kid working at McDonald’s to Warren Buffet.

Not sure what you’d call a comfortable life but a single mom making $72,000 per year would be struggling in many major cities.

bluGill22• 1 year ago

Some of us believe in liberty of property and maximum wages is not compatible with that.

analog315• 1 year ago

In fact they depend on the upper middle class in order to have those things. I'm thinking about cell phones. Nobody can have a cell phone unless enough people can afford them to create an incentive to build and improve the infrastructure.

candiddevmike3• 1 year ago

Same thing with 401k enrollments at businesses. Management gets way more of a benefit from them than the wage slaves, but needs to maintain a minimum amount of people enrolled.

BurningFrog• 1 year ago

Without people to buy from, money is worthless.

SoftTalker2• 1 year ago

The very wealthy had mobile phones years before they were commonly available/affordable. The only things they can't have are things that are technically/physically impossible. A Gilded Age railroad titan could not have had a mobile phone. But the wealthy had them in the 1940s.

maxerickson• 1 year ago

The other piece is that there's no incentive to keep prices out of reach.

There might be reasons for high prices, like costly manufacture, but no one is going to refuse to expand their market by 10000x if they are able to bring costs down.

Immortalin• 1 year ago

We should have expensive products which actually improve lives.

Maybe the super rich should take up training LLMs as a hobby.

globalise83• 1 year ago

That's literally the case already: each tech oligarch has their own toy AI company.

vidarh• 1 year ago

I clicked through hoping for something interesting and different, and got the same impression.

So... More plus influence.

I think the only thing listed that people with less money don't really "know about" is how much perspective changes with staff. You know people have people, but not necessarily how it changes things.

I'm on the very low end of that - I run a small DevOps consultancy and can, now employ a few people in low cost countries, and though I've managed large teams before, having unilateral ability to set people to work on things because I want them is a game changer, and it's hard to get used to asking for things instead of doing them.

The rest feels like things everyone knows, if not directly then from TV and movies.

amarcheschi• 1 year ago

I knew a son of two entrepreneurs with a ~30m yacht, they own a (ex) monastery they use, either for parties, events, or as a residence

They have Miele appliances, but having "same appliances" doesn't make justice to the fact that there are deeper differences. Yes, they're status goods, but I think one's life might greatly improve by being very wealthy - even if your life can still be shitty as a wealthy person

nunez3• 1 year ago

Miele makes really good stuff. I have their stackable W1/T1 washer/dryer. It's unbelievably good at washing or drying pretty much anything. They also supposedly last forever, even today. I'll let y'all know how true that is in 20 years LOL

song9• 1 year ago

My apartment has Miele appliances. It came with the apartment and I'm honestly not impressed at all besides the fact that they still work after 18 years (when they were installed).

The oven is mediocre at best, my Annova Precision Oven is much much better, much better control of temperature, heats up much faster, has more features, infinitely cheaper.

The range hood needs to be repaired because it makes a lot of noise. Repair of Miele appliances are super expensive.

The only appliance I'm impressed with is the wine cave but that's a white labeled Liebherr

SJC_Hacker2• 1 year ago

I'd say it really depends on the mentality of the very rich person

The very wealthy are going to fly private. Upper middle class could swing this on a case-to-case basis, but not regularly and especially if not if they frequently travel

Other than that, the main difference is the very wealthy having a mentality of getting people to "take care of problems" to a much larger extent. For example, routine tasks like cleaning. An upper MC person might have a weekly cleaner at best. But they still have to load/unload dishwasher, do their own laundry, etc. A very rich person has a full-time housekeeper.

The very rich have circles of people they rely on to take care of problems. Like having "a lawyer" who they go to for and have known for years. There seems to be much more of a sense of personal relationships / loyalty. Almost like the old feudal oaths.

Animats4• 1 year ago

The very rich have circles of people they rely on to take care of problems.

At the higher levels, there's a "family office" which takes care of such things. All bills go there, and anything that needs to be done, they take care of. The first big one was the Rockefellers', which was in Rockefeller Center in New York. (That turned into a business. Now it offers Being Rich as a Service.)

naveen99• 1 year ago

I would pay to avoid flying : private or public…

rglullis4• 1 year ago

A very rich person has a full-time housekeeper.

So does any middle class family living in a developing country with high economic inequality.

vjk800• 1 year ago

Other than that, the main difference is the very wealthy having a mentality of getting people to "take care of problems" to a much larger extent. For example, routine tasks like cleaning. An upper MC person might have a weekly cleaner at best.

Pfft... amateurs. I've solved the same problem by just living in filth.

potato37328426• 1 year ago

The very rich have circles of people they rely on to take care of problems. Like having "a lawyer" who they go to for and have known for years. There seems to be much more of a sense of personal relationships / loyalty. Almost like the old feudal oaths.

That has more to do with owning business interests than wealth. The guy who owns a small chain of a mundane business, has stake in another business via investment, etc, etc, his social circle looks roughly the same.

nativeit• 1 year ago

We should have 90% top marginal tax rates instead.

HardCodedBias4• 1 year ago

How about we do the exact opposite?

Create expensive products which materially improve the lives of those with wealth? Align the incentives of the rich so that they don't spend on these zero sum status goods. Also incentivize the rich to get richer so that they can buy these products that make their lives better in a non-shallow way.

Work with incentives instead of against incentives.

matwood• 1 year ago

You can't talk about top rates without also talking about where they kick in. Italy's top rate of 43% kicks in for everything over 50k euros. The 50k feels a bit low to me, and maybe 100k euros would be better. 90% of everything over 5M may work, but then you run into another problem where people that rich are not bringing home a salary. So you lower where it kicks in and then just impact the working professionals, which also isn't who you really want to target. And if you do want to target those working $500k+/year, removing the cap (176,100 this year) on SS payments is probably a better path.

So now we're back to the ultra-rich where you need to first think about taxing dividends as income without hurting retirees, and second think about some wealth tax. It could be small like .2% on everything over 5M or something, but it would actually put some tax burden on the people you're trying to put it on.

JumpCrisscross7• 1 year ago

We have very few items for the rich to buy

Goods, yes. Services, fuck no. Look at the Four Seasons and Amangani yacht and jet programmes for a <$10mm example of the sorts of experiences wealth opens up.

HardCodedBias4• 1 year ago

These are mostly positional items.

The four seasons isn't materially better than the hilton next door. The rooms are basically the same, the fixtures at the four seasons are fancier, the bedding is prettier, some random furniture may be sourced from a different supplier. The four seasons will be in a location which has somewhat better views.

The four seasons has prettier and more attentive staff, and there are less "less well off" at the four seasons. And you get to brag that you went to the "four seasons" but it really isn't that much better.

It's almost all status.

CobaltFire2• 1 year ago

Can't say I've stayed at the Four Seasons, but we stayed in the St Regis in SF last year. We got upgraded to the Metropolitan Suite and that was quite the experience. Note that I paid exactly zero as I'm a long time Bonvoy Gold Member and was burning points on one of their regular rooms for a vacation, then they elected to upgrade us. I think it was due calling ahead asking for an accommodation for my autistic son (which they were amazing regarding).

I have nothing bad to say and everything good about how they handled our stay. Whether it was worth the price is (as this whole topic is about) relative to your means. I would say that it was more than we would have paid, but now that we've experienced it it's on my radar as a reasonable value. Their signature "Butler" service was beyond amazing; traveling with my son is difficult at the best of times and they handled everything.

They essentially allowed me to have an actual vacation vice allowing me to handle a series of challenges and let the rest of my family have a vacation (which is the normal way things go).

never_inline• 1 year ago

If I were rich, I would have a personal data center, an aeronautics lab, a tropical farm, mediaeval fort, things like that. Not this yatches and crap.

bombela• 1 year ago

And I would sell tickets (at a loss, ). Because whats something cool if nobody witnesses it.

ownedthx• 1 year ago

‘The Manor on Stagecoach’

https://g.co/kgs/tgHhdkD

You aren’t alone

m4638• 1 year ago

when the 3D printing stack gets a little further, we'll all get "a utopian, post-scarcity space society of humanoid aliens and advanced superintelligent artificial intelligences living in artificial habitats spread across the Milky Way galaxy."

lwo32k• 1 year ago

which help no one since they are zero sum

Signalling Status plays a big role in group formation/group maintenance/social cohesion etc.

The larger groups grow, the more complex the group dynamics get, keeping groups of people together and preventing them from disintegrating is one of the most complex problem we face, given all the differences in culture, religion, language, class, personalities, ambitions, values, needs, intelligence, skill, education level, interests etc etc

A short cut frequently used (cause its easy) is using Leisure and Luxury (see Theory of the Leisure Class).

"So you like what I wear, where I stay, what I eat, who my friends are, what toys I have and want to be like me or hang out with me then do what I say". This works pretty well. In fact Veblen's prediction in Theory of the Leisure Class was that since Tech has a tendency to eliminate waste, tech would eventually eliminate the need for a Leisure/Status signalling Class that keeps large groups from unraveling.

But social cohesion of large groups is such a complex problem, society even today requires all kinds of Status Signalling to keep the groups together.

If you find ways to keep groups together without status signalling you are onto something special.

472828472• 1 year ago

In my experience roaming many different groups, the ones who do not signal status typically are the most powerful/influental. Their membership is safe; they don’t need to signal status, or rather, signaling it draws too much attention (annoyances by those seeking to gain status by affiliation). I remember reading a study about this some years back to find my own findings confirmed.

The people I know with a net worth over 10m do not display it. Why would they want to. It only has downsides and no upside. Same applies to other forms of status/rank/belonging.

(Not contradicting your points, merely adding to them.)

If you want to experiment with that, try to NOT match other people’s style AND radiate a deep sense of security/belonging/entitlement. Do not hide your (other) insecurities; those with status don’t have to hide their authenticity. This may sound like a contradiction at first, but you can develop an universal sense of belonging that remains authentic. You will be surprised which people will suddenly find you to talk with you, once you stop seeking their attention.

HardCodedBias4• 1 year ago

Not to be trite, but signaling status is only complicated due to animals/humans making it complex. These are games and they are zero sum games.

We should strive to remove ourselves from these games as much as possible and not to lean into them as LVMH would like.

Rejecting such superficial signaling only enhances one's life, IMO.

ifyoubuildit• 1 year ago

The same phones, the same digital entertainment, the same appliances in their homes.

This stuff isn't life, it's just the random trinkets we fill our lives with. Time is life. The rich can do with their time what they please.

squigz• 1 year ago

We should have expensive products which actually improve lives.

We do. It's just that "wealthy" is far past the point of diminishing returns when it comes to buying high-quality expensive items.

No, we don't need to come up with things for the rich to buy just to fix their incentives. We should be asking ourselves how to decrease wealth inequality, not how to make it more fair to those on top.

0xDEAFBEAD6• 1 year ago

The incentives for the ultra-rich are screwed up.

I remember a few years ago Mark Zuckerberg announced that he was donating 99% to charity. The internet got very angry about it, based on flimsy reasoning: https://qz.com/564805/5-criticisms-of-billionaire-mega-phila...

Bill Gates has saved millions of lives through his philanthropy, and the internet is full of malicious rumors about him. Other billionaires who do far less good, but keep a lower profile, get much less hate.

A common meme on the internet is "if your intent was truly charitable, you wouldn't care whether anyone said thank you".

But this is a false dichotomy. Many people find the idea of charity appealing to some degree, but most of us aren't die-hard saints either. When we see the good deeds of others get devalued or even punished, that makes us less enthusiastic about doing good ourselves.

"Show me the incentive and I'll show you the outcome." Punishing do-gooders is one of the most anti-social things you can do. On the other hand, praising do-gooders is a very cheap way to incentivize people to do more good in the world.

I believe that once you get to a certain level of wealth, you start caring more about your personal reputation than your material goods. Sadly, there is so much reflexive skepticism towards billionaire philanthropy at this point that it's not even clear to me whether doing philanthropy is reputationally net-positive.

Gud• 1 year ago

Bill Gates gets a lot of hate for good reason. His business practices killed off a lot of good products. BeOS, anyone?

canucker201612• 1 year ago

In Bill Gates's post about changing his charitable giving goal to give most of it away in the next 20 years, he references Chuck Feeney as someone he admired.

from https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chuck_Feeney

  Until he was 75, he traveled only in coach, and carried reading materials in a plastic bag." He did not own a car or a house and wore a $10 Casio F-91W watch

He gave away most of his fortune and required recipients not to reveal the source of the donation.

viraptor3• 1 year ago

Bill Gates has saved millions of lives through his philanthropy, and the internet is full of malicious rumors about him.

But that's not related to his philanthropy mostly. There's evil business stuff he actually did and there are some conspiracy freaks. Those would exist anyway. But I've never seen a significant number of people with criticisms because of the programs he enables.

bjourne4• 1 year ago

Gates giving away his money is good, but it would be better for the billionaire class not to exist. Money is power is a zero sum game.

isaacremuant• 1 year ago

This is a disingenuous post.

Philanthropy is often used a strategy to lobby politicians and drive policy that benefits other investments while avoiding most taxes.

Nobody voted people like Bill Gates to have such a massive influence over media and institutions via "donations".

If you knew anything about NGOs and politics you wouldn't simply go for "They're asking for or donating money so they're obviously awesome, their intentions are great and it's a net positive".

Calling skepticism reflective is like saying that if you think your company doesn't have your best interest at heart like it says you're being paranoid.

david38• 1 year ago

Little, but largely impactful in certain circumstances * money for health care * education * money to walk away from a bad job + money to hold you over for extended periods during hard times

tsoukase• 1 year ago

After health and edu, your points do not apply. Filthy rich do not have jobs, hard times etc And at least in Europe we have (mostly) low cost health and edu and we do not (mostly) get jealous about the rich

tuatoru2• 1 year ago

We should have expensive products which actually improve lives.

Those are called philanthropic charities - research institutes or the like. Some of the very rich have them.

Edit: the town I was born in had a Carnegie Library[1].

Edit 2: the point being that the very rich buy social status and respect.

1. https://www.nzgeo.com/stories/carnegie-libraries/

burnt-resistor• 1 year ago

Commissioned art and other things of little intrinsic utility plus occasional trappings of status are the discriminants for some. If you don't need these things, life is simpler and cheaper. It is nice to do things that aren't solely about advancing utility sometimes. Art is another good way to hide, transport, and increase wealth.

chrismcb• 1 year ago

I'm not sure what you argument is here. But I world rather have inexpensive things that improve lives. There isn't a huge market for expensive things that improve lives. It are you trying to say you want rich people to spend their money trying to build things to improve lives? Some do. Why do you think we have star link, for example

jmye2• 1 year ago

I don’t think StarLink was built to improve lives. See: how it’s being used as a control and power mechanism.

mcmoor• 1 year ago

I've heard that it's even worse (better?) the more you go to the past. Bret Deveraux [argues] (https://acoup.blog/2020/07/24/collections-bread-how-did-they...) that this is one reason why lots of farmers choose to stay in subsistence level, because there's not really better things they can buy anyway. So they just conserve energy and time (which some outsider may see as lazy) and focus on long term resiliency (through building horizontal and vertical social relationships) to ensure that no disaster may pull them down all the way to starvation.

124123124• 1 year ago

The answer is out-of-topic because the question ask what is something that ordinary people do not know.They go on a tangent about perspective and power over society, but nothing listed was a thing that I do not know.

Access. You now can just ask your staff to contact anyone and you will get a call back.

Funnily, my parents always call back within 60 seconds even midnight, while a certain someone get disowned by their kids.

For a donation of $100k+ to his charity, you could probably play a match with him.

For a donation of 16k you can have a 1 on 1 zoom call with Keanu Reeves. He advertised this pretty well, so "ordinary people" should know this.

At this point, all the riches and riches are on SNS flexing their wealth, I don't think there is anything left that ordinary people just couldn't browse SNS and see what can you buy with those money.

Bang2Bay2• 1 year ago

The post is probably written by a non-rich who does not know but suspect that there is something? may be there is that we do not know now? ;)

lm284693• 1 year ago

Buying "things" really is the level 0 of wealth. What matters is that you don't have to sell your time for money, that alone changes your entire existence. Then you have access to better healthcare, education, seeing your kids grow, &c.

That's why a lot of poor people who unlock large amount of money go broke quite fast, they still think like poor people

madaxe_again2• 1 year ago

Time is indeed a very major thing, but it’s more accessible than most realise - I am only marginally wealthy, high 7/low 8 figures, and that’s ample for me to not need to work for a living and live very comfortably. Frankly, once you have even $1M in free liquid capital, you are in the endgame, as money makes money far more efficiently than labour. I spend perhaps 20 hours a year farting around with our finances, place some bets, and that’s it. I decided to go full on idle-rich when I was still practically a pauper, and have grown my worth significantly since.

Perhaps my sample pool is skewed, but the billionaires and centimillionaires I know live pretty modest lives in general - yes, they fly first class, stay in the best hotels, and all that jazz, but they’re unpretentious, and you wouldn’t know them from the upper middle class family sat at the next table. In fact, one I know regularly gets weird looks because he’ll be in some elite country club in his coffee-stained slacks and threadbare jumper - but there’s the rub - he doesn’t care. The guy who looks rich is probably up to his eyeballs in debt. The guy who looks like the janitor probably owns the place.

I think the single biggest thing wealth buys is not giving a shit what other people think. You don’t have to play status games when you know you’re the big dog in the room, even if nobody else knows it. I mean, I take perverse joy in showing up at places looking like I just crawled out of a gutter, because I know it doesn’t matter - my money is good.

KolibriFly5• 1 year ago

Being able to say no to things, take your time, be present. That's a whole different kind of freedom

KolibriFly5• 1 year ago

Like, at some point there's no real "better," just "rarer."

sgt1012• 1 year ago

Well - there is an alternative take. Whisper it... but we don't actually need to have ultra rich people in our society. They serve no purpose that normal rich people don't, and arguably introduce distortions that are profoundly corrosive.

randomcarbloke3• 1 year ago

we didn't arbitrarily select people to make rich, they are externalities of our wants and needs, and a sign that those things are being ~ satisfied.

yen223• 1 year ago

It's really curious that something as personal to people as smartphones don't have a rich-person equivalent the same way cars do. What is the McLaren of iPhones?

Cthulhu_8• 1 year ago

There's gold plated / jewel encrusted versions of phones or graphics cards [0] but that's just making things look garish for the people that want to look rich. But as far as I know there's no 'bespoke' phone manufacturer on the same level as Swiss watches or hand-built cars. No real reason either; with a watch, any performance has peaked years ago so the only thing that remains is design. Phones are mostly functional, although I suppose you could do something cool with the back side.

[0] https://www.pcgamer.com/hardware/graphics-cards/one-day-the-...

em5004• 1 year ago

The problem was that technological advances made this a very tough market. Nokia used to have a separate marque called Vertu (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vertu) to serve this market. But rapid technological progress meant that next year's $300 phone is batter in most functional aspects as last year's $5000 luxury model, so even the very wealthy would probably prefer this year's iPhone 17 Air to last year's diamond-encrusted iPhone 16.

The market might get revived when the tech improvement flattens flattens. like they did for cars.

amelius2• 1 year ago

Well, they have access to more medical treatments.

JKCalhoun8• 1 year ago

Jets, art, yachts, vacation homes.

That's quite enough actually.

crossroadsguy• 1 year ago

When I started earning much more money than I have had before (not “rich” money by any means - that’s not the point; but much much more than I grew up in or started my career with) I realised it’s not about buying things, it’s more about being able to pay for things without giving a thought if needed/wanted. That’s really a very relaxing or freeing feeling. (And they say money doesn’t bring peace :P)

efficax• 1 year ago

what the super-rich can buy that the middle class can't isn't really things (except for luxury goods, which are meh), it's people (through services). you can buy someone to do anything that you want to be done (that can be done!) so you don't have to do it. nannies, companions, builders, killers, bodyguards, drivers, pilots, cleaners, house managers, lawyers, secretaries, etc. That's what you do with the money. You buy farmers to grow macadamia nuts on your hawaii estate to feed cows raised by more farmers so you can call your property a farm, get a tax break, and brag about the quality and freshness of the steak when people come over for dinner. and so on.

you can even buy people to make more money for you, so you don't have to do it yourself, either through your "family office" investment firm, or through venture capital. You don't have to do anything but ask for what you want and there it is.

m4638• 1 year ago

well, except for:

  IMPACT. Your money can literally change the world and change lives.

smitty1e• 1 year ago

All that wealth is great, and may even make a difference if you catch cancer. Or not.

One famous chap who is nailing it is Shatner. Strive to be spreading joy like that guy, whatever your means.

candiddevmike3• 1 year ago

Shatner has always been a jerk, the joy you're seeing is manufactured PR for a man who is worried about his "legacy" like any of the other older rich.

kstrauser2• 1 year ago

Does that make a difference to people outside his personal circle, though? An extreme example of this is Bill Gates, spending billions to cure diseases. Maybe he’s only trying to buy his way into heaven, but I bet the people cured by his medicine couldn’t care less about his motivations.

mjevans• 1 year ago

I don't know much about anyone, but the 1990s Star Trek captains were more my speed.

Picard, Sisko (spelling), Janeway

I hope none of them are bad people IRL, they didn't give that impression on the little screen.

neilv• 1 year ago

There is literally nothing you can't buy except. Love. Sorry to sound so trite, but it is nearly impossible to have a normal emotional relationship at this level. It is hard to sacrifice for another person when you are never asked to sacrifice ANYTHING. Money can solve all problems for someone, so you offer it, because there is so much else to do. Your time is SOOOO valuable that you ration it. And that makes you lose connections with people.

That, and being surrounded by fawning yes-people, and the drugs?

In the worst cases (and there are a few, currently), you decide that you should be in charge of everything, democracy is a mistake, and that you are the person to destroy it.

Who has time for love, when there's so much ego to give.

canucker201612• 1 year ago

zappos co-founder, Tony Hsieh. see https://www.foxbusiness.com/business-leaders/the-death-of-za...

azlev• 1 year ago

With billions, can I be Batman?

Balgair• 1 year ago

I'm going to honestly answer here.

No, because Batman isn't a real person with real constraints.

Sure, I mean, if you have a $1B, then you get to have a lab with gadget people making cool shit and you can buy a fighter jet and a personal submarine and you have the detective agency too.

But you don't get the rogues gallery of super villains. You don't get new knees every week. You don't get to save your local city, because the problems are mostly the problems that the people cause themselves. And solving all those problems makes you a tyrant, not a hero. And even then, the problems are the same we've had since before history.

This is why in the real world, we have philanthropy mostly aimed at education and the alleviation of extreme poverty and diseases as the main outlets for the billionaires. Because it's the only thing we think that works at all.

I guess, if you really wanted to be Batman, you could fund yet another study that would state how best to give away dollars. But, without even having to look, I know that there are a few dozen of them out there already and they all pretty much say the same thing: that it's muddy and hard to discern, but maybe if you squint, education and making sure people have food and shelter.

To be Batman, you already can do it. It's mosquito nets for the poor, it's giving that bum a $100 and an hour, it's volunteering with prisoners to get them to read, it's making sure your kids' classmates have a snack before the test, etc.

So yeah, the real world Batman is a boring stressed-out Mom that's active in the PTA, her church/community-center, and local politics. Real World Bruce Wayne is Steve Rogers before the serum.

ericrosedev• 1 year ago

I find GiveWells approach the most satisfying when I ask myself “how can I make my charity go the furthest”. https://www.givewell.org/ I also highly recommend Famine, Affluence, and Morality by Peter Singer, it’s a perspective changing book. Also, great comment!

sien• 1 year ago

Yes, in a computer game.

Just like the rest of us.

fragmede12• 1 year ago

To be fair though, the VR setup the rich can afford is a bit better than something that doesn't have a treadmill and a dedicated room.

leftcenterright• 1 year ago

So, no wealthy person is buying a physics lecture or investing in experiments to better understand the nature of this universe we live in? /s

btw does anyone know if places like Fermi lab, CERN receive donations from the super-wealthy?

analog315• 1 year ago

I don't think directly, but wealthy people occasionally "buy a building" at a university, or fund an endowed professorship.

auntienomen• 1 year ago

Jim Simons did in fact fund Brookhaven national lab directly at one point. His foundations and friends continue to fund a variety of scientific endeavors. But we don't have too many scholar-turned-philanthropists around, unfortunately.

SoftTalker2• 1 year ago

Occasionally? It's very common. I guess for an individual wealthy person it might be occasional or a one-time thing.

cperciva• 1 year ago

Government labs, not so much. But universities and independent research institutions, sure. For example, the Perimeter Institute is considered to be one of the top theoretical physics institutions in the world, and it exists because Mike Lazaridis made a ton of money from Research in Motion (aka BlackBerry) and decided that Canada needed a top tier theoretical physics institute.

lokimedes2• 1 year ago

I was part of the ATLAS collaboration at CERN. We had an annual collaboration meeting in Copenhagen, perhaps in 2012 or so. Poul Allen’s yacht was moored in the harbor, across from the venue. It as the high point of CERN hype, and we knew that he was a patron of the sciences. So a delegation (our spokesperson etc.) was sent with some ATLAS merchandise to greet him, and perhaps suggest a sponsorship of some student activities. Allen was a uniquely generous person when it came to science, but historically, science is a gentleman activity for men og free time, so it surely happens.

lokimedes2• 1 year ago

Personally, the freedom to pursue my scientific curiosity is the only motivation to seek wealth. If I by virtue of satisfying wealthy people’s interests in fundamental physics could sustain my life and research, I wouldn’t care about accumulating wealth for myself.

canucker201612• 1 year ago

Mike Lazaridis, and other high-level execs of Research In Motion (Blackberry), donated money (>$100M) for the Perimeter Institute for Theoretical Physics, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Perimeter_Institute_for_Theore..., in Waterloo, Ontario.

SJC_Hacker2• 1 year ago

Generally its universities that are getting the money directly. Its mostly for big ticket items, especially buildings, and especially where they can attach their name to it. Like at Stanford its the "Gates Computer Science" building.

Other than that there are foundations that issue grants to individual researchers, e.g. Gates also has a foundation. There are others such as Burroughs-Wellcome, Clayton Foundation, etc.

The private foundations are generally very stingy with "Facilities and Administration" fees, which was in the news recently as the fight over NIH/NSF funding which can go in the 50-60% range. Private generally doesn't go over 15%, frequently its much less.

InMice2• 1 year ago

index funds?

coolcase2• 1 year ago

Index funds and wait 70 years. Can't beat it :)

InMice2• 1 year ago

Dont have to wait that long but the longer the better I guess

busymom0• 1 year ago

One of my favorite lines from the tv show Billions is:

Chuck Rhoades: Walk away.
Bobby Axelrod: I should. But then again, what's the point of having fuck you money, if you never say, fuck you.

https://youtu.be/upfyoQdc_r4

steveBK1233• 1 year ago

They never, ever walk away.

steveBK1233• 1 year ago

Having worked at a few 100~1000 person companies run by billionaires, this tracks.

Most of the difference in lifestyle is the quantity and quality of housing they can afford, and having people to take care of problems for them. But they ALL universally have messed up personal lives with multiple messy divorces, embarrassing affairs, NYPost Page Six appearances, etc.

The one thing you'd think it gives them is freedom, but they all pretty much end up working til they die so I don't know. I'm not sure if the money breaks something in their brain, or their broken brain is what leads them to chase the money. Likely some of both!

There's some level where you can afford 2-3 nice residences, flying private, and not lose your damn mind. I've seen some of the billionaire's lieutenants achieve this balance. Basically being able to be fabulously rich but anonymous. Like the Bill Murray quote about people who want to be rich & famous should try just being rich first.

I think these guys I've seen are probably in the bucket the reddit OP marks "Net worth of $30mm-$100mm". Adjust that upwards for inflation and also to account for many of these people being in VHCOL areas so maybe it's like $50-200mm.

TMWNN• 1 year ago

The one thing you'd think it gives them is freedom, but they all pretty much end up working til they die so I don't know.

From "Requiem" by Robert Heinlein, 1940 <https://archive.org/details/Astounding_v24n05_1940-01_dtsg03...>:

"What? You are old D. D.? But, hell's bells, you own a big slice of the company yourself; you ought to be able to do anything you like, rules or no rules."
"That is not an unusual opinion, son, but it is incorrect. Rich men aren't more free than other men; they are less free—a good deal less free. I tried to do what you suggest, but the other directors would not permit me. They are afraid of losing their franchise. It costs them a good deal in—uh—political contact expenses to retain it, as it is."
"Well, I'll be a— Can you tie that, Mac? A guy with lots of dough, and he can't spend it the way he wants to."

bombcar5• 1 year ago

Those who know how to handle wealth never become billionaires because once they have a few million they retire and do what they want to do.

al_borland6• 1 year ago

The way I’ve heard it, billionaires are generally not chasing money. They have some other mission/purpose that is driving them. If it was just about the money they would give quit.

kamaal2• 1 year ago

>The one thing you'd think it gives them is freedom, but they all pretty much end up working til they die so I don't know.

I was having this conversation about this colleague a few weeks back about another colleague we knew who made it big working at a start up. You would expect he has lots of free time and mental space at hand to do whatever he wants, instead it turns out he has to now worry about managing that money.

And its not exactly a easy job. Managing big money can be hard as any loss even a small percentage is a lot of money. And that begins to weigh heavily on you in form of stress as there is a lots at stake.

>Like the Bill Murray quote about people who want to be rich & famous should try just being rich first.

Absolutely there is big difference between 'comfortably rich' and 'having to worry day and night for your money'. You would expect more of a thing make things awesome as you go, but as it turns out there is a counterintuitive aspect to this.

Plus announcing your success to friends and family can bring unexpected complications. People begin to think you owe them things, and they are entitled to it. And saying no can be quite tricky, and make you look evil.

toast0• 1 year ago

You would expect he has lots of free time and mental space at hand to do whatever he wants, instead it turns out he has to now worry about managing that money.
And its not exactly a easy job. Managing big money can be hard as any loss even a small percentage is a lot of money. And that begins to weigh heavily on you in form of stress as there is a lots at stake.

A three-fund portfolio pretty much scales from $100 to $100M, probably more. Once you have enough money do whatever you want, you can do stocks:bonds anywhere between 20:80 and 80:20 and you'll be alright, and if not, there probably wasn't a reasonable choice you could have made with the information available.

If he's got enough to be set for life, and he's worried about market fluctuations, that's a choice.

insane_dreamer• 1 year ago

And its not exactly a easy job. Managing big money can be hard as any loss even a small percentage is a lot of money. And that begins to weigh heavily on you in form of stress as there is a lots at stake.

Only because the person "needs" to "have more". They could put it in TBills and never think about it again. And they'd be totally fine, still live a life of luxury.

It's only because the growth in money becomes a goal in itself, which is a trap.

gadders2• 1 year ago

I think I heard a quote by Chris Williamson recently that the ideal level of fame is "Everyone knows your name, but no-one knows your face."

steveBK1233• 1 year ago

This is pretty accurate. I know a guy professionally worth probably $100M. His name occasionally turns up in industry rags, and even in more mainstream business news once or twice.

However no photos have ever appeared in the stories. The only photo I can find of him online is his LinkedIn photo.

Within the industry his name can open doors, but out in public no one would recognize him and he can live a normal (extraordinarily wealthy) life.

ubertaco• 1 year ago

I think much of human history (not just recent US history, but that's a prominent example on folks' minds these days) proves that the biggest differentiator that the wealthy can buy is complete immunity from any sort of legal consequences.

Even if you don't already live in a high-corruption society, you can either spend some of your wealth introducing that corruption (which pays dividends), or you can just go somewhere else that's already high-corruption and bribe your way into immediate permanent residence.

Live in a democracy? Just buy public opinion by leveraging your wealth into a highly-profitable propaganda network, which will also give you an appealing platform for opportunist would-be government officials, who will then owe you, making your bribes cheaper. Maybe you can even just directly blackmail or entrap them along the way, so you don't even have to pay.

Live in an autocracy? Buy enough weaponry and PMCs to insulate yourself or even rival the government itself, or just buy the autocrat's favor directly.

Live in an oligarchy? Psh, your work is already done. Just use the system as it's designed: to be exploited by your vast wealth.

pjc503• 1 year ago

Sam Bankman-Fried believed this, and it turned out not to be that simple. But it's very noticeable how the US is trying to set up a system of protected Party insiders.

isleyaardvark2• 1 year ago

The reason he got in trouble in the first place was when it turned out he didn't have that money.

ofcourseyoudo2• 1 year ago

This is a great answer.

But I'm curious what the answer would look like if every strata in it was not "things you can buy" but "things you can do with the money" ... if the "IMPACT" section was delineated at each level.

One of the things I envy the most about my rich friends is their capacity to be generous. They can materialize their compassion on a regular basis without having to balance their budget.

I'd like to see what that looks like at each of these wealth levels.

(One funny thing I noticed is that I have multiple friends with virtual personal assistants now, at middle class levels of weath/entrepreneurship... definitely not a rich man's thing anymore.)

canucker201612• 1 year ago

Automation is for less wealthy rich people - so the company can serve more users.

When you are rich, you get a real person who speaks your language well and has the authority/power to get things done.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/High-net-worth_individual

loa_in_• 1 year ago

That's an opinion, but I would rather have a va

bluGill22• 1 year ago

Even wealthy in the US tend to have much less servants than they would have in the past. Labor is too expensive, and the large middle class has made automation just as good and sometimes better. Sure I could hire someone to turn on my lights - but the switch on the wall works well and isn't much effort (compare to the lamp lighter of the past which did work that would be annoying).

thomassmith652• 1 year ago

There are only 902 American billionaires*, but this 'Redditor' claims to know nine of them. The wording implies these were chance friendships. It is a big answer, but not a great answer.

*https://npr.org/2025/04/01/nx-s1-5345950/forbes-billionaires...

bluGill22• 1 year ago

People tend to stick together. Once you know one odds become higher that you get introduced to a few more. Billionaires like parties as much as anyone else, so if you are not an insane stalker and get to know one well they will invite you to parties just to have a group of friends and now you are vetted so the others will not stay away as much. Different people have different sizes of friend circles so breaking in is hard.

canucker201612• 1 year ago

They watch just-released films on the day they're released in their home (cost $35K buy-in, $500 per film). see https://www.theverge.com/2015/4/7/8361475/prima-cinema-luxur...

They have a current star singer perform a private concert for them (so this was probably a corporate event, but I'm sure centi-millionaire/billionaire have hired her to perform) - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beyonc%C3%A9_2023_Dubai_perfor...

dctoedt• 1 year ago

Brings to mind the famous Joseph Heller quote: "At a party given by a billionaire on Shelter Island, Kurt Vonnegut informs his pal, Joseph Heller, that their host, a hedge fund manager, had made more money in a single day than Heller had earned from his wildly popular novel Catch-22 over its whole history. Heller responds, 'Yes, but I have something he will never have … enough.'"

https://www.goodreads.com/quotes/10651136-at-a-party-given-b...

DoingIsLearning2• 1 year ago

This is arguably not very scientific but if we didn't have the media fascination around the power and influence that billionaires carry, we would like come to accept that rationally it is a mental disease no different from Plyushkin's syndrome.

You won, you can provide for you and for your whole bloodline if you so choose. You can choose your adventure, go fully epicurean or fund Humanity impacting projects. Yet they keep going and going unable to exit the carrousel.

jfil• 1 year ago

Survivorship bias... Maybe we never hear about the people who made their fortune and quietly exited the scene?

canucker201612• 1 year ago

You were a fast collegiate-level runner, became a wealthy financial adviser, who now has three sons who are doing well in high school long distance running.

What do you do? You convince one of your old running buddies, who now coaches elite runners, to coach your son. The son sets the national high school indoor record for the 800m.

Son decides to go pro after graduating high school.

Then Covid19 hits. Access to outdoor 400 tracks is limited. What do you do?

You build an 8 lane 400m track with running surface to match the quality at the site of the Word/US track and field championships. Cost: ~$4M

You hire the best coaches for your kids. Coach needs a place to stay nearby - no problem, buy a townhouse for him to stay at. etc.

see https://www.letsrun.com/news/2025/05/how-josh-hoey-went-from...

dehrmann• 1 year ago

Is there any scenario where a pro runner can gross $4M in lifetime running earnings?

lazide• 1 year ago

Maybe, but this is one of those ‘if you need to ask, you can’t afford it’ type scenarios.

danielbarla• 1 year ago

Sure, through sponsorships and adverts. But like all such things, it's an extremely limited number of people who have the right combination of talent, training, perseverance, looks/charisma and probably luck to get that amount.

bemmu• 1 year ago

But that's the thing, if you'd no longer need to think in money-constrained terms, then instead you'd just want to make something happen in the world. It doesn't need to have a financial return, because your finances would be solved already.

Suppose you have more than enough money for you and your family to live out their lives without needing to worry about that. Now that's solved, you can move on to what you actually want to happen in your life, such as helping your kids become pro athletes.

bryanrasmussen• 1 year ago

I'm sure taking the bronze or silver in the Olympics is a great talking point for a future as a lawyer or financial analyst, so the backup plan is in place.

gadders2• 1 year ago

Pretty sure Usain Bolt has.

lazyasciiart2• 1 year ago

Usain Bolt estimated net worth is $90million. Maybe as many as ten others have passed $4m? A few listed here https://athleticsweekly.com/aw-promotion/top-10-richest-trac...

KeplerBoy3• 1 year ago

absolutely, but let's just say the distribution is a bit skewed to making nothing from pro running ventures. It has an extremely bad effort to potential reward ratio.

By putting in the same level of extreme effort into any classicaly well paying profession you would highly likely become very rich and successful.

awongh• 1 year ago

Lance Stroll, the F1 driver also comes to mind. (Also basically every single other driver but not to the same degree)

rasz2• 1 year ago

Was this posted because of incoming HBO's Mountainhead? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=27cN2_k0JF0

kazinator• 1 year ago

Is the answer to the question buried in there somewhere?

The top comment mentions some things wealthy people buy, but nothing ordinary people don't know about.

florbnit• 1 year ago

It’s funny how emotional responses questions like this become on part of the people answering everything but the question. If some one asks in a sports forum what the best exercises are that pro tennis players do that novices don’t know about you wouldn’t expect the majority of answers being in the line of “Tennis players never experience true love! If all you have is tennis you’ll be depressed!”

ludicrousdispla• 1 year ago

For many tennis players, love means nothing.

alexey-salmin12• 1 year ago

So it does for many ordinary people.

Money can't buy happiness but nether could the absence of money. It's not really a good argument against money.

m4638• 1 year ago

Sometimes the question is really asking something else.

In this case, it might seem to be "what trick can I use that ultra-wealthy use?" or "how can I be prosperous on a budnget" but it really is "what is it like to be rich?"

y7• 1 year ago

Also, "extremely rich" is like "extremely successful in life" to a lot of people. But for the latter, emotional connections are also important.

IshKebab5• 1 year ago

Yeah but I really wanted to know what rich people buy that I don't know about. The top answer - while vaguely interesting - didn't actually tell me anything I didn't already know.

I think the conclusion is probably that they don't buy anything we don't know about.

hamstergene• 1 year ago

I think the question was pretty clearly worded:

Title: What do insanely wealthy people buy, that ordinary people know nothing about?
Text: I was just spending a second thinking of what insanely wealthy people buy, that the not insanely wealthy people aren't familiar with (as in they don't even know it's for sale)?

The comment just plain and straight doesn't answer the question being asked.

It's kinda amazing how much more it is upvoted than comments with relevant answers. Maybe because emotions from dreaming of what it's like being rich (that's what it actually goes about) are so strong, the interpretation of the question is getting bent towards experiencing them.

moralestapia• 1 year ago

Sometimes the question is really asking what is asking ...

KolibriFly5• 1 year ago

Let people be interested without turning it into a philosophy seminar every time.

adamcharnock• 1 year ago

I think this could be super unpopular around here, but here goes:

This is a symptom of societal unfairness. In this case there are different ways to react, but this is one of them. Tennis isn’t oppressing anyone, so no one is getting emotional about the pro tennis players knowing all the tips.

But the story since the 70s has been that you can have anything you want if you just work hard enough and are skilled enough (particularly in North America and the UK). Which means that if you don’t have something you want, then it is no one’s fault but your own.

Except in realty there are a whole host of external factors that influence once’s ability are accrue nice things.

It’s hard to reconcile these two things in our minds. We don’t have any narrative except the current one. So either we accept that we’re simply not good enough, or we accept things are broken with no solution. The former is often the most emotionally tolerable.

So when people see people with more than them, they don’t think, “good for them, we all choose how much we want to work for and I’m happy at my level”. Instead there is a collision of irreconcilable thoughts, and what comes out is, “they’ll never know what true love is”.

femto• 1 year ago

Money can solve all problems for someone, so you offer it, because there is so much else to do.

Anthony Pratt is worth a few billion dollars and acknowledges the above with his quote "being rich is my superpower".

[1] https://www.smh.com.au/world/north-america/being-rich-is-my-...

ArthurStacks• 1 year ago

This as usual is just financial mortals speculating on what wealthy people do.

sfeng• 1 year ago

What so many people fail to realize is the true purpose of money is to avoid having to spend time with people you don’t like, or do things you don’t value. So if you have a $400/million per month job, but you have to have meetings all day long, you’re not really rich. Similarly, no offense to billionaires, but the ones I’ve met have been someone manic and misanthropic. If you are using your access to spend your time with them, you are not really rich in my book.

True wealth is being able to spend all your time doing things with and for people you love. It sounds trite, but the truth is many people miss the opportunity to jump off the train and enjoy their life while they can.

bluGill22• 1 year ago

A few years back I took some mandatory training. As part of this we were told to write down our personal goals which we all did. Then the trainer said something profound "I can tell you are engineers - mostly I give this class to executives who get mad when they do the above exercise. They realize their goals are things like spending time with family and yet instead of going home after this class they will be getting on an airplane to get to their next meeting".

I would love to have a private yacht, or whatever other symbol of wealth you can dream of. I have plans for what I would do with a house more than double my current house in size. However it isn't worth going into upper management to get those things.

BLKNSLVR2• 1 year ago

This was the most demonstrative part for me:

PERSPECTIVE. The wealthiest person I have spent time with makes about $400mm/year. i couldn't get my mind around that until I did this: OK--let's compare it with someone who makes $40,000/year. It is 10,000x more. Now let's look at prices the way he might. A new Lambo--$235,000 becaome $23.50. First class ticket internationally? $10,000 becomes $1. A full time executive level helper? $8,000/month becomes $0.80/month. A $10mm piece of art you love? $1000. Expensive, so you have to plan a bit. A suite at the best hotel in NYC $10,000/night is $1/night. A $50million home in the Hamptons? $5,000.

My issue with this level of 'earning' is, it feels entirely like stealing from them would be justified since they're most obviously stealing a whole lot from the rest of the world.

What products can I buy that don't filter up some percentage into these billionaires bank accounts?

AndyKelley2• 1 year ago

Products that are produced by employee-owned, co-ops, or non profit businesses. Even then, however, those organizations will have operating expenses - for instance renting a building. The only meaningful way to get the money circulating back through the economy is taxation. Or, if that doesn't happen enough and the disparity becomes too great, war and/or collapse of society will chaotically and capriciously redistribute wealth, restarting the cycle. The French Revolution comes to mind.

opo• 1 year ago

The only meaningful way to get the money circulating back through the economy is taxation.

Scrooge McDuck is a fictional character. Rich people don't have all their money hoarded in a pool of gold coins - excess money is invested back into the economy.

kortilla6• 1 year ago

since they're most obviously stealing a whole lot from the rest of the world.

What definition of “stealing” are you using here?

It seems like it somehow includes owning a large equity stake in a profitable or rapidly growing company since that’s how most people that “make $400mm/year” are actually gaining wealth.

Claiming that is stealing is pretty dumb considering it’s how everyone that holds equity gains wealth. So when does it become stealing?

TFYS• 1 year ago

The wealth should be going to the people who create it, which is the people who do the work and the customers that use the product. The only reason owners get to take a part of it is the power that ownership of capital gives them. Using power to take what others create is quite close to stealing. It's no different from some feudal lord taking what his peasants create. Legal within our system, but that doesn't mean they deserve it.

BLKNSLVR2• 1 year ago

"Stealing" is the most polite, least offensive way I could put it.

"Crime against humanity" is closer to the description I would otherwise use. Am I being more clear? The effects of that level of accumulation of wealth and power on the individual, the community, country, and the world are grossly negative.

No one who has ever lived deserves that amount / percentage of wealth.

Where it gets blurry is "so, what is enough then?" and "what is to be done with anything over the "enough" amount?". I don't know the answer, I don't know when it turns from earnt to evil. I doubt there's a specific number, although specific numbers are required for laws and legislation and regulation, but it would defnitely be a variable amount depending on the individual at which they become irreparably morally bankrupt.

The correct answer, however, cannot possibly be: Just let them accumulate more forever. That's inarguably stupid, but that's where we're at.

ta12438• 1 year ago

What products can I buy that don't filter up some percentage into these billionaires bank accounts?

Very little, that's why wealth tends to increase in the 8-10% a year increase but income doesn't.

alexey-salmin12• 1 year ago

The referenced reply is dull. It's very pretentious but just reiterates common knowledge, it doesn't convey any useful information.

For example I wish someone told me about the existence of Miele kitchen equipment before I accidentally rented an apartment of a well-to-do woman. She renovated it for herself but then rented out when circumstances changed.

Similarly it took me a long time to realize just how much better the veneer wood furniture and doors are compared to laminated chipwood. Price is 3-4 times higher but it lasts 5-10 times longer and is much more pleasant to use. Unfortunately you need years to notice such long-term differences, unless someone tells you.

And I'm basically learning to be lower-middle class here. I'm sure there are similar things to know in higher stratas and I'm unlikely to live long enough to find out naturally even if I happen to get the money somehow.

coldtea3• 1 year ago

Unfortunately you need years to notice such long-term differences, unless someone tells you.

Hardly rich, but that "veneer wood furniture and doors" are much better than "laminated chipwood" is common knowledge. But back in the day, poor and rich alike wouldn't look twice at either, but opt for solid wood furniture.

alexey-salmin12• 1 year ago

Well that falls under the "unless someone tells you" part.

It depends on your background. I grew up in Russia in the 90s, back then it was considered cool to put plastic panels on the walls of your apartment. Fresh and modern look, easy to wash, clearly superior to wallpaper. It was called "euro-renovation" as opposed to soviet-style or "grandma" apartments.

pjc503• 1 year ago

More generally, it can be hard to distinguish between "luxury" products that are primarily more exclusive with very little functional benefit (or in some cases more fragile!), versus products that are Actually Good.

The display luxury category: anything by LVMH, Birkin bags, limited edition sneakers, Ferrari, etc

The "better product for more money" category: Miele, wood furniture, Lexus etc

anal_reactor3• 1 year ago

but it lasts 5-10 times longer

I find it such a weird argument. Ok, your furniture from 1900 is still doing great, fantastic. The problems are:

1. Your great-grandfather had a different sense of esthetics, so shit just didn't fit your modern apartment.

2. You moved to a different country, and shipping fees of the furniture were ten times the cost of brand-new chipwood furniture (literally).

3. The furniture was designed with usage in mind that simply doesn't exist in modern world.

4. It was made specifically to fill a certain room. Your new place has a different layout. Deal with it.

These arguments are even more true in the context of technology. "Look, my grandma's black-and-white TV is still working!"... great? I'd rather have a modern 4k OLED, but I guess that's just personal preference. Not to mention how having expensive things makes you a prisoner of these things. If your cat ruins Ikea cabinet, you'll be angry for a day. If your cat ruins your family heirloom, you'll be pissed.

alexey-salmin12• 1 year ago

We're not talking of centuries here. Laminated chipwood looks like shit in a matter of years. I can replace my phone every year but for a kitchen table or a bathroom door it's ridiculous, way too much hassle.

rienbdj• 1 year ago

The best interiors feel lived in but not stuffy. A few old pieces of furniture can help achieve that. Part of the skill of interior design is making these pieces work together in new ways.

You don’t want your home to feel like an ikea catalog surely!?

aziaziazi2• 1 year ago

Hum, that's fair points but don't contradicts OP's arguments:

1. OP finds it "much more pleasant to use" which I believe includes the aesthetic side. "your modern appartement" is your take, but is it? and how old modern? There's an universe of different styles that have been implemented in the past, in a multi dimensional sense: it may be influenced by the state of the art of that time (available tools, wood...), the vogue (not necessarily correlated with state of the art) and the context (unique fancy piece for someone wealthy that paid for, unique simple piece for your family, small series by a semi industrial workshop).

2. True, however your old chipwood furniture may not be newish enough for the next householder so A. he/you needs to ditch it B. buy a new one. With a quality furniture you often can re-sell it at almost the same price you bought it, there's no devaluation but only a seller commission if you don't want to bother.

3. I have in front of me a drawer that was build by the gran-gran-gran-pa (yes!) of my wife and... drawers are drawers. Same for stools, bed or tables. I understand your point as there's usages that are lost like furniture-like-clock but some others weird stuff still come back every time because they actually are clever [0]

4. I'm not sure what you're talking about: integrated kitchen (and so) are made to fill a certain room, not the wooden furniture I'm familiar with that you can literally place where you want. New place and not enough space ? Sell it (the the new owner or someone else) and buy another one that fits better. You hardly sell a cheapwood furniture. Moreover, moving to new places have other drawbacks to deal with that you take into account when making the decision. I'm not arguing you sloudn't move, but it's a process that isn't always trivial. For exemple many US residents won't be able to bring their tank-car aboard for legal and/or practical reasons. Or their digged swimming pool. Or whatever if they move to inner Tokyo.

TV => The image quality is wined by the news devices image, however ss you mention "expensive things" I'd like to point out a B&W tv is probably way cheaper and robust that and the 4K OLED one. But there's room for choices in-between, and I a agree the argumentation works better with furniture than electronics.

CAT scratch => That's the beauty of the made-to-last furniture: Wood ? sand it, a bit of varnish and you're done. Fabric ? tear off the piece and nail a new one. They're not museum pieces but day-to-day home helpers.

[0] https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Confident_(siège)

hluska• 1 year ago

People have different tastes. There’s nothing weird about that at all.

theodric• 1 year ago

Not a universal view. I don't have a modern apartment (I've lived in them and don't enjoy the æsthetic of a straight, unornamented beige and glass box full of postmodern slab furniture). I have a stone cottage from the 1600s. If anything, my 19th-century solid wood furniture is too modern!

socalgal2• 1 year ago

Worst experience I've ever had was with a Miele dishwashing machine at an AirBnB in the Netherlands. I like my Miele vacuum cleaner though

nickd20014• 1 year ago

What happened to that then? ;) We bought a Miele dishwasher to replace a Neff which broke down after 10 yrs (probably 16 yrs worth of "official" usage) due to a silly design fault that caused it to leak. Thought a fairly basic model Miele worth a shot, as because it a stupid built-in, there's extra costs getting it installed, so longer it lasts the better. So far, it seems to clean to fairly similar standard to the Neff. Key thing is how long it'll last. Not made in Germany anymore , says made in Czech. Might be fine. But think they've cut some costs. We also own, assumingly, a "Tesco Value" microwave which cost £22 in 2006. Fairly ugly. Has just 2 controls - power level and time. Absolutely hammered, used every day for 19 years, still works fine. I kind of worry whether after this time it will emit more microwaves out into the open so I stand back even more when using it ;)

tuyiown• 1 year ago

The only thing people look up on Miele stuff is to last 20 years minimum. That and maybe the cutlery tray on dishwashers, but the patent expired some time ago. Everything else barely matters if the thing is workable one way or another.

safety1st2• 1 year ago

On a personal level I know several guys who are worth $10-30M, one who's worth probably $40M, and one who's worth around $700M, this is LNW.

Not much in the Reddit reply checks out for me. It's true that the $700M guy socializes with "Senators/Congressmen/community leaders." He travels a lot, and comfortably, but has no ownership in a jet. He retired young-ish and no longer works so maybe that's why. He doesn't flash his wealth around except to women he likes, and it's an absolute magnet for them, he gets pretty much any woman he wants to sleep with him simply by being a decent guy who's also worth $750M. I mean, they know that as long as he's dating them they will have a life of permanent luxury travel and not have to work, so not a surprise.

But beyond that he's pretty unassuming, doesn't flash his wealth, and mainly just likes to talk about finance and give people business advice.

The $10-30M people don't seem much different from me. Their contingencies for dealing with potential financial catastrophes run a lot deeper than mine. Their property is worth more and they do travel a bit more frequently and lavishly than I do. Idk nobody I know is doing this stuff where they're really fixated on getting into the best restaurant in town, or they're totally inaccessible except through their "people" and personal assistants.

I don't know a lot of it sounds like a type of person I don't associate with I guess, maybe I am not flamboyant and rich enough. I know there are rich people out there who spend like this guy describes; I interact with them very occasionally and briefly; I'm sure I am super boring to them; I question whether they remain that rich for very long :)

I don't know anyone who hobnobs with celebrities nor wants to. The comment is 10 years old, maybe Hollywood has lost its cultural cachet. Eureka, that's it: this is probably a post about Hollywood people.

NooneAtAll3• 1 year ago

what does LNW mean?

nothrowaways• 1 year ago

the NW of 700M guy increased to 750M in 1 min - does he sell eggs?

TacticalCoder• 1 year ago

I was invited for coffee at a friend's friend.

He seemed a pretty regular guy, very friendly: kids playing in the pool. Nothing out of the ordinary except as many house employees as adult guests (and house employees where calling guests by their name).

I happened to know the artist Jeff Koons: not a big fan of the "inflated balloon dogs" but I do like his ballerinas. Well... Turns out the dude had one house destroyed then rebuilt to accommodate a 3 meters high Jeff Koons sculpture of two ballerinas.

I don't know exactly but I take it that's a $15m sculpture. I'd say most people don't know who Jeff Koons is and most people have no idea that some people shall just level an entire house just to have an architect redesign a new house, at the same place, so that a sculpture can now be admired from the living room, kitchen and garden.

He's got several paintings from Basquiat too. He's actually in the top 200 of the world's top art collectors (I found that out by googling his name after having been to his place).

And he's got his art pieces sprinkled around the world, in his many properties.

The $10-30M people don't seem much different from me.

Definitely not very different. One little fantasy I saw not one but two people in that range do is buy several times the exact same car. Identical. Same config. Then they use one as a daily, and put the the others at different vacation places they have: so they land, take a cab, then get to enjoy the same car. Weird but I've seen two people do it, so I take it's a thing? One had identical Range Rover, the other identical Lexus.

Not real petrolheads: rich car petrolheads are actually going to own fancy stuff like old Ferrari 250 (even if "just" a GTE), old GT40, old Porsche, etc. which every body expects rich people to have if they're into cars at all.

But yup: buying x times the exact same car when times comes to change cars is kinda just weird.

elzbardico4• 1 year ago

Please remember that this is from 10 years ago. For wealth comparison, you need to take into account the valuation of assets in this period. What the author says about 700M, is probably roughly equivalent to today's 5 billions.

moneywoes2• 1 year ago

how did they create their networth, self made or inheritance

Suppafly8• 1 year ago

I don't know anyone who hobnobs with celebrities nor wants to.

My wife has an uncle that uses his access to wealth and some connections to meet and develop friendships with sports players. It's not even that expensive but you do have to have the personality to be somewhat charming and have the ability to exploit connections. Once you have an in, you can extend that to others. If I had his money, I'd move out to the middle of the woods and never talk to anyone. I just depends on what you like to do.

mellosouls2• 1 year ago

I think you have a couple of good examples in your comment and I understand you would have liked more along those lines, but:

The referenced reply is dull. It's very pretentious but just reiterates common knowledge, it doesn't convey any useful information.

I disagree strongly - its not a multiple-gold answer that is now being linked to years later for no reason. I read it years ago and have always remembered it - one of those rare internet comments that I think is a classic informational moment, well-written and illuminating.

albedoa• 1 year ago

This is fascinating to me and I'm sure many people who read your comment. What did you learn from the reddit comment that you didn't know before reading it ten years ago? Why has it stuck with you?

oezi• 1 year ago

Price is 3-4 times higher but it lasts 5-10 times longer

The problem is that if an Ikea furniture lasts 15 years then that's enough. People no longer need 50-100 years furniture, because nobody wants to inherit old stuff anymore.

Life's circumstances change faster and buying quality often isn't worth it. Maybe a Miele dishwasher last twice as long at double the price. But it will become old after 10 years even so.

Cthulhu_8• 1 year ago

People no longer need 50-100 years furniture, because nobody wants to inherit old stuff anymore.

I'm going to challenge this assertion: did anyone, ever? Looking around in my parents' house (retirement age), there's no furniture from their parents (post-WW2). I don't remember whether my grandparents had any furniture of their parents in use either.

I do recall going to the charity shops and finding older wooden furniture; while I recognize it as better quality as what you can get today, at the same time it's no longer useful today. TV cabinets (with doors) for CRT TVs and video tapes, writing tables, those kinds of things are obsolete. Tables are timeless though.

But also, over time a lot of that old furniture was either destroyed or bought up and exported. What you find in the charity stores near me today is mostly 90's and onwards.

rsynnott7• 1 year ago

Maybe a Miele dishwasher last twice as long at double the price. But it will become old after 10 years even so.

It... won't support the new dishes that come out in the 2030s?

Like, other than energy efficiency (and this is basically already into diminishing returns for appliances like dishwashers), what must-have progress are you expecting?

Lio2• 1 year ago

It's not just how long it lasts.

When we redid our kitchen our fitter had to argue with our whitegoods supplier for us.

The guy in the shop couldn't understand why I wanted a built in Miele fridge-freezer over what ever generic he wanted to off load. His argument was that nobody would be able to see the logo so it didn't matter and we should just take the cheaper item.

My argument was that the Miele was much more energy efficient and would be running 24/7.

Given that enegry costs have risen substantially since then I think I made the correct choice and that the difference in purchase price has more than been offset.

thesuitonym• 1 year ago

Of course nobody wants your garbage furniture that only lasts 15 years. And since I plan to live 50-100 years, I'd like furniture that can last as long.

Der_Einzige5• 1 year ago

High end furniture from brands that last 50-100 years (i.e. Hancock and Moore, Century, a lot of other brands made in the Hickory NC area) hold their value. Go to the estate sales near you and watch as the prices for pieces from those companies (also real mid century modern furniture) holds at least 1/2 it's value 10+ years later.

High end furniture is the kind, like goodyear welted boots, where you keep it forever and reupholster it every 10 years.

em5004• 1 year ago

For example I wish someone told me about the existence of Miele kitchen equipment before I accidentally rented an apartment of a well-to-do woman.

Don't believe the hype. I got an apartment full with Miele kitchen equipment (from the previous owner, but less than 10 years old). They're nothing special, and I got a lot more random errors on the oven ("please contact service", tried that once, they were as clueless as you'd expect) than in my previous Siemens kitchen.

Loic3• 1 year ago

We are all Miele at home and for the next renewal, I will go to Bosch/Siemens. Too many small failures here and there (less than 8 year old). I was sincerely surprised because 20 years ago, Miele was the gold standard (at least in Germany). So, I agree with you.

d--b3• 1 year ago

There are pros and cons for "luxury" items.

Sometimes they're overpriced (Miele is), sometimes they're expensive to maintain (try get a stain out of marble), sometimes they're not durable (think of cashmere sweaters). There is no secret sauce that tells you whether the price of something you buy is a proxy for its qualities. And when you buy something expensive, you're kind of pissed when it breaks.

That's why many wealthy people go for the expensive luxury shit at first, like buying a Porsche, or a 30k kitchen remodel, only to go back to good old Toyota and ikea kitchen, cause they're just as fine and a fifth of the price / maintenance.

You usually learn those things the hard way.

sellmesoap• 1 year ago

As a person who's installed quartz countertops for a living, I'd shy away from IKEA kitchens. I agree with your point, but I'd take exception to the general quality of their cabinets in Canada at least.

firemelt• 1 year ago

anybody can elaborate more about the miele? why miele?

Ekaros• 1 year ago

Generally at least some models at least used to be very reliable. Like I just discussed with my parents that their clothes washer is over 20 years old. And been in regular use without any issues or significant maintenance. That sort of lifespan isn't really expected from even premium models from most brands.

So they do have perceived quality of being more expensive but more long lasting goods.

vertnerd• 1 year ago

I've had the same Miele HEPA vacuum cleaner for 35 years. I've replaced various pieces on it over the years. The bags are still available. It refuses to become obsolete.

enneff3• 1 year ago

I’ve had to repair my Miele dishwasher several times. (Faulty heater relay, common problem with the model.) also coincidentally the spring in the door broke yesterday. Otherwise it does clean the dishes very well and it’s quiet and attractive looking.

I bought it because they have a good rep. But I’ve owned this dishwasher for 15 years and it’s still going.

My Fisher and Paykel fridge I’ve had for 20+ years and it’s never needed any maintenance whatsoever. To me that’s pretty amazing.

foobarian• 1 year ago

I got one because it was the only reasonable model I could find with a water softener built in. It lasted a good while (~8 years) and performed well i.e. no hard water stains on dishes. After 8 years it developed a grinding noise in the recirculation pump which pointed to broken gears and a replacement which would cost in the ballpark of a new machine so I replaced it.

The design itself has some "German overfeatured" idiosyncrasies to me. Like, when the wash is done, a little stick extends out of the top of the machine pushing the door open to vent. But then, when you tug on the door to open it, you can hear a little geared motor spin and retract that stick. Just more stuff to design, add to BOM, and to break.

InvOfSmallC• 1 year ago

Same experience. We found Miele in the apartment we bought. We understood the why for the price. Worth it.

Cthulhu_8• 1 year ago

Similarly it took me a long time to realize just how much better the veneer wood furniture and doors are compared to laminated chipwood. Price is 3-4 times higher but it lasts 5-10 times longer and is much more pleasant to use. Unfortunately you need years to notice such long-term differences, unless someone tells you.

Isn't this also down to age? That is, stuff like that built 100 years ago is - in my head - better quality.

However, this may very well be survivorship bias - of course anything built 100 years ago still around today is good, because anything that wasn't as good is long gone. Like my ikea furniture will be as soon as I try to move it.

alexey-salmin12• 1 year ago

I'm not looking into 100 years old stuff, that's mostly solid wood anyway.

I'm referring to my consistent experience of buying both laminated chipwood and veneer wood things, then seeing the former disintegrate within 5 years and the latter last 10 years with no visible damage.

It's all good now, I just wish it didn't take me 10 years to gain this knowledge. On another hand if I got it much earlier it wouldn't benefit me either because I could only afford cheap stuff anyway.

bluGill22• 1 year ago

We still know how to make the things that last. Modern engineering can do better than the 100 year old things. However we also know how to make things much worse. They couldn't make chipwood 100 years ago.

mrguyorama3• 1 year ago

However, this may very well be survivorship bias - of course anything built 100 years ago still around today is good, because anything that wasn't as good is long gone. Like my ikea furniture will be as soon as I try to move it.

It's a 100% surviorship bias. The knockoff "ikea" style flatpack dresser that I assembled (incorrectly) when I was 12 lasted 20 years, and only finally went away because I was moving in with my girlfriend and we could afford slightly more "real" and coordinated furniture. It would have continued to work for longer.

The stuff that lasts 100 years is primarily just whatever is bought by people who treat their stuff well. That has vastly more impact than any product design excluding the modern planned obsolescence and negligence with electronics.

Basically any Toyota can make it to 250k miles, but the Million Mile Lexus is still impressive to people because it tells you about the history of the car more than the manufacturer. If you want to know what cars will make it to 1 million miles, you don't look at reliability stats, you look at what was bought by middle aged wealthy men who were good friends with very careful mechanics.

mathverse7• 1 year ago

Except Miele is not a luxurious brand it's just a slightly highend piece of equipment.

master_crab• 1 year ago

Miele looks and acts high end. And that includes the repair costs because they frequently break.

No thanks. I’ll take something that is less so but will work for years without complaint.

tlb• 1 year ago

Yes, but the quietness outweighs all other considerations.

sriram_malhar• 1 year ago

Anecdata. I've had Miele washer, dryer and cooktop. No parts changed, no maintenance done on them since 1992. Works absolutely fine.

snowwrestler4• 1 year ago

So what would you buy instead?

dinkblam• 1 year ago

existence of Miele kitchen

i'd pay not to own Miele

ponector• 1 year ago

Next stage is to realize solid wood is better than veneer wood.

Also miele has too much marketing hype. Want the ultimate appliances? Buy professional equipment. Like washing machine that are used in hotels.

martin_a• 1 year ago

Buy professional equipment.

Just what I thought and wanted to add.

I guess if an appliance is used each day for several hours, that will last a lifetime in my home for use once or twice a week.

Downside: Professional kitchen equipment is also optimized for being easy to clean. Could be a problem if you don't like pure stainless steel very much... ;-D

akvadrako• 1 year ago

Those are designed to have a service contract for continuous maintenance. Not the best idea for a home.

baq• 1 year ago

Industrial dishwashers use different detergents and operate at a much higher temperatures. Most dishes don't like either. Not to mention if you're in the US you probably want three phase power.

mauvehaus2• 1 year ago

Two things:

One, there are things you can do with veneer that you cannot be done in solid wood. You can resaw a board to get a book matched panel in solid wood, but you generally cannot get a four-way match because of either pattern shift, not enough thickness to start with, or basically creating veneer the hard way. This generalizes to radial matches with more pieces. That's the most basic example. There are many other things you can do with veneer that are impossible to execute in solid wood. See here[0] for more examples.

Two: professional equipment is not usually built to the customary dimensions of a private residence. A commercial range is a hell of a lot deeper than standard counter depth (about 24" in the US, probably 60cm or thereabouts in Europe because it's based off of how far you can comfortably reach). I looked into this after getting spoiled cooking on a commercial range once. It's not the cost of the range that kills you; it's the cost of the kitchen renovation to accommodate it.

There are vendors that build closer to professional quality appliances sized to residential standards. We lucked into a used Capital range a year ago for a number of dollars we could afford. It's built a lot better than a strictly residential unit and has a weight to match.

[0] https://ctfinefurniture.com/ I am unaffiliated other than owning his excellent book, which I regularly consult when I'm doing veneer work.

rfrey5• 1 year ago

All professional dishwashers I have encountered (there may be others, obviously) require thorough rinsing (either high-pressure handheld wand or a wipe with a brush/cloth) so they are essentially "clean" before going in the dishwasher.

The dishwasher sanitizes the dishes via very hot water and thorough coverage, but does not really clean anything. It has high temperatures and high throughput - 5 minute cycles. Basically a completely different use case and probably unsuitable for a home.

im3w1l• 1 year ago

Price is 3-4 times higher but it lasts 5-10 times longer and is much more pleasant to use.

If you are rich then you can buy something that is 20 times more expensive and lasts twice as long. The efficiency doesn't matter as much when it's chump change either way.

JKCalhoun8• 1 year ago

The referenced reply covers several tiers of wealth and, to be sure, can be simplified to: as you move up in wealth so to does your access to real estate, luxury and political power.

But your comment on Meile, nice kitchen cabinets, sounds like you're looking only for what the next tier above you is enjoying. (And go Bosch for the dishwasher, BTW.)

alexey-salmin12• 1 year ago

But your comment on Meile, nice kitchen cabinets, sounds like you're looking only for what the next tier above you is enjoying.

No, not really. These are examples of things I know from N+1 level. I'm curious to hear about N+2, N+3 and so on. Some of the points shared in this thread fit nicely, like "buying identical cars in locations you visit often". Or something like "don't by 488, find a used 458 instead -- it's more fun for lower price" would be appreciated.

The original post instead just rambles like this: "I know rich people, let me tell you how rich they are. You wouldn't believe it. Like, really really rich. Like they have their own island, you know".

I don't see how that's useful.

Aeolun2• 1 year ago

Heated toilet seats with bidet. You will never want to go back.

WinstonSmith84• 1 year ago

move to a warm country and that problem is solved.

kiney3• 1 year ago

Miele is considered special elsewhere? In germany it's one of the most common brands of kitchen equipment and probably the most common brand for washing machines. I personally consider them overpriced for the quality. My family rents out a vacation home with three units, all equipped with washing machines and dries from miele and we had a couple of them fail over the years.

tough8• 1 year ago

Miele is a pretty well known standard german brand no? I'm sure they have higher-end stuff but i dunno, maybe you could have researched it, or just didnt find the need before?

There's a pretty good saying about 10$ boots that last a year or 100$ ones that last 10 years

If you're well enough, you can probably afford more things that you can use anyways, so it makes sense to optimize for those that give you the most kicks for your bucks, even if they're technically more expensive.

Lio2• 1 year ago

Miele is a pretty well known standard french brand no?

Miele are German in fact.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Miele

myself2483• 1 year ago

My mom worked at a law firm where one of the partners retired, moved to England, and bought a castle. As one does. He told this story while back in the States for a party:

Castles are old. And drafty. And need a LOT of renovations to bring them up to a modern standard. So he had immediately set upon this work, hiring contractors, picking out high-end appliances, arranging for the import of Italian marble countertops...

And once the place was looking nice, he threw a housewarming (castlewarming?) party, and invited all the folks from the neighboring castles. And at this party, he was regaling one of the old-money guests with how nice the downdraft range was, and how it really felt special with the new counters.

"Fascinating.", replied Old-money. "I have never been in my kitchen."

big_paps• 1 year ago

This is so dandy

toyg4• 1 year ago

That's a classic put-down (and a lie).

English aristocracy really knows how to cut someone to size when they feel like.

potato37328426• 1 year ago

The referenced reply is dull. It's very pretentious but just reiterates common knowledge, it doesn't convey any useful information.

This is a textbook example of why you can't get a serious answer to anything nuanced on a vote based platform. The low common denominator stuff that is easy to agree with gets everybody clicking the right-think button and to the top it goes. Anything with nuance or controversy gets buried.

Even this comment I am replying to probably wouldn't have wound up where it is did it not pay homage to the god of groupthink by cheerleading for Meile, though any other brand the upper middle class likes would have fulfilled the same rhetorical purpose.

b3lvedere• 1 year ago

Not sure if Miele is still what it used to be. To my knowledge Miele products tend to live a tad longer for almost twice the price.

I do wonder what household appliances these homes have that Enes Yilmazer shows on his YouTube channel. It seems it's always the same huge black/silver color washer and dryer.

Damogran63• 1 year ago

In covid had a whirlpool dishwasher that lasted less than 3 years (4 subsystems failing all at the same time)...it was either wait 2-X months for the Miele we wanted, or pay twice as much to have it today. ($2k vs $1k)

I'm uncomfortably enamored with this dishwasher. (Bought it over a Bosch as the percentage needing repair in the first year was 8% instead of 12% and I was flat done with it.)

The dishwasher is fully enclosed...the typical DW is open at the back with all the guts just barely contained in an open structure.

To balance the dishwasher, you slide it into the nook and turn two bolt heads that have a mechanism that raise the back of the dishwasher after it's set in place.

There are instructions on how to install matching cabinet faces...the buttons are on the top of the door...if you want zero indication you have a dishwasher, they'll accomodate.

While the drawers(?) are well thought out and can take a lot of dishes, it shines when you're entertaining, it flat SOAKS UP dishes and flatware and has cycles to safely wash crystal. We never seem to use this.

It has pucks full of detergent, a load now a days costs about $1.80...more than I'd like, but the simple avoidance of pouring soap and having a sixpack delivered when you need it is a crazy luxury.

5 years in and it's been faultless.

rfrey5• 1 year ago

Do I understand from this that they lock you into... proprietary soap?

gruez3• 1 year ago

The dishwasher is fully enclosed...the typical DW is open at the back with all the guts just barely contained in an open structure.

That seems.. fine? Why spend a bunch of money/effort on dressing up something that'd get seen for a few hours max?

It has pucks full of detergent, a load now a days costs about $1.80...more than I'd like, but the simple avoidance of pouring soap and having a sixpack delivered when you need it is a crazy luxury.

Is pouring out detergent powder really that much of an advantage? At best you're saving a few seconds because you don't have to portion out the soap. Using loose detergent also means you can sprinkle a bit outside of the dispenser, which improves the per-rinse cycle. That means you're getting a worse wash by using tablets, because there's only detergent for the main cycle.

kridsdale32• 1 year ago

I think we have the same one.

noboostforyou• 1 year ago

Price is 3-4 times higher but it lasts 5-10 times longer and is much more pleasant to use.

"The reason that the rich were so rich, Vimes reasoned, was because they managed to spend less money. Take boots, for example. ... A really good pair of leather boots cost fifty dollars. But an affordable pair of boots, which were sort of OK for a season or two and then leaked like hell when the cardboard gave out, cost about ten dollars. ... But the thing was that good boots lasted for years and years. A man who could afford fifty dollars had a pair of boots that'd still be keeping his feet dry in ten years' time, while a poor man who could only afford cheap boots would have spent a hundred dollars on boots in the same time and would still have wet feet. This was the Captain Samuel Vimes 'Boots' theory of socio-economic unfairness."

ackbar03• 1 year ago

I'm curious about this though, does a rich man actually wear the same pair of boots for 10 years?

That being said, I've noticed that a lot of clothes that I bought 10 years ago or so are of pretty high quality compared to today, (and no, they are not rich man's clothes). Some of them I actually have been wearing for more than 10 years now.

ape4• 1 year ago

Probably $200 for a good pair of boots

MichaelDickens• 1 year ago

This is one economic function of loans: borrow money to buy the more expensive boots, pay extra in interest, but save money in the long run. Assuming it is in fact cheaper to buy the more expensive item.

imp0cat3• 1 year ago

Loved the book! :)

But on the other hand, consider running shoes - most modern ones, even the expensive ones, will wear out in a few hundred kms and are usually non-repairable.

bushbaba• 1 year ago

Disagree it lasts 5-10 times longer. IKEA kitchens will last anywhere from 10-30 years. 5-10 times longer is 50-300 years, which is well outside the range veneered hardwood kitchen cabinets will last.

m4638• 1 year ago

depends on the ikea product.

I had ikea stuff that:

- bubbled when liquid spilled on it

- scratched easily

- had screws loosen over time. basically all of them

(this was non-kitchen stuff, I just haven't bought a kitchen from them)

Aardwolf• 1 year ago

Miele kitchen equipment

That's... pretty standard in Europe

gammarator• 1 year ago

veneer wood furniture

If I were wealthy, I’d be getting solid hardwood…

alexey-salmin12• 1 year ago

Well so would I, too bad I'm not wealthy.

caulkboots• 1 year ago

The only Miele you want is the vacuum cleaner.

Der_Einzige5• 1 year ago

The only vaccum cleaner you want is a central vac (Miele doesn't make these).

Central Vac's are easily 4X as powerful for often the same price as the over priced Miele stuff.

PeterStuer• 1 year ago

Honestly, Miele is the brand of choice for anyone middleclass over 40, at least in Europe, so I'm sure most (grand)patents would have told you. Not exactly a 'secret'.

ricardobayes4• 1 year ago

In Europe, Miele is definitely understated wealth, so are hardwood floors in good condition (20+ year neglected floors don't count). Geothermal heating systems.

account42• 1 year ago

Similarly it took me a long time to realize just how much better the veneer wood furniture and doors are compared to laminated chipwood. Price is 3-4 times higher but it lasts 5-10 times longer and is much more pleasant to use. Unfortunately you need years to notice such long-term differences, unless someone tells you.

You also need to be able to afford the higher up front price. Sam Vimes boots theory of socioeconomic unfairness in practice.

KolibriFly5• 1 year ago

And yet, for all that freedom and power, the end note hits hard: emotional connection and authenticity become the rarest luxury.

hcfman• 1 year ago

What would be great if these ultra rich people started to associate success not just with money but also with being a decent human being and giving back. Because just having shit lots of money is not my definition of being successful.

Ultra rich should make giving back a structural part of their lives and businesses.

ctchocula• 1 year ago

What you're talking about sounds a lot like the post-scarcity world that Gene Roddenberry envisioned in the Star Trek universe, where everyone has enough to live on, so social status is attained by prestige and doing admirable things (i.e. working for Starfleet). However, there's a lot of work to be done getting from here to there.

bluGill22• 1 year ago

They generally do. However decent human being and giving back are not well defined terms and so they will often strongly disagree with whatever definition you happen to use.

Elaris• 1 year ago

I thought this article would tell me about things that wealthy people buy that those of us who aren’t as rich would never even think about. But in the end, it mostly talked about things that are somewhat obvious like how wealth brings access, influence, and luxury. It was interesting, but not as surprising or revealing as I expected. I guess it’s something we can all imagine to some extent, even if we haven’t experienced it firsthand.

InfiniteLoup2• 1 year ago

I thought this article would tell me about things that wealthy people buy that those of us who aren’t as rich would never even think about.

In case you want to look those up, I know for sure that FaceGym masks were popular with the affluent demographic for a while.

nayuki• 1 year ago

That particular Reddit comment [2015-01-13] overlaps with a recent Graham Stephan video that explains what life is like at each order of magnitude of net worth: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZAPhN6o3e3o (19m57s) [2025-04-28]

urbandw311er• 1 year ago

As in: you’re saying he just copied it for his YT? Or as in we should watch it because it’s interesting

macleginn• 1 year ago

Debrett’s Guide for the Modern Gentleman should give some pointers.

EvanAnderson4• 1 year ago

Through some odd circumstances I found myself receiving a lot of catalogs and sales solicitations for a reasonably wealthy person. Most of the stuff was what you'd exoect-- expensive furnishings, clothing, home goods.

The two that were most interesting were the travel-related (guided trips in exotic locales w/ profiles and resumes of the local guides), and oddly specific and highly-focused catalogs (gardening, specific types of home goods). The one that really stands out was a catalog with hundreds of different brushes-- each with a very specific purpose (and many with carrying cases and other accessories). I had no idea there were so many different brushes.

tmcz26• 1 year ago

Do you remember the name of the travel guides/companies? That would actually be interesting.

EvanAnderson4• 1 year ago

Ugh. We threw away a ton of stuff. I'll see what I can find. (A change-of-address had lapsed. We let the recipient's family know and they're keeping it updated now, so the torrent has, sadly, stopped.)

tuumi• 1 year ago

This one comes to mind. It was quite expensive and Uma Thurman's father was involved when I used to get the catalogs 20 years ago. They have private and custom tours available. www.nomadicexpeditions.com

Some others. www.nomadicexpeditions.com www.geoex.com - Digging the 22 day train trip through the Silk Road for $50k

How about around the work via private jet? https://www.smithsonianjourneys.org/tours/around-world-priva...

JKCalhoun8• 1 year ago

Yeah, post the company name — because I'm picturing instead a company posing was a company for the rich and famous. Do we remember The Sharper Image catalog?

EvanAnderson4• 1 year ago

There was one that totally had that look. Ugh. I should have made notes of the names. It was a very Sharper Image-looking catalog, filled with wildly eclectic products. It was replete with statements about everything being top-of-the-line, satisfaction guaranteed, and lifetime warranties.

antonchekhov• 1 year ago

The J Peterman catalog is still around around (at least, online) and approaches satire in its selection of goods (mostly clothing) that assiduously conveys "casual, interesting, old-money wealth". The Elaine Benes character on "Seinfeld" worked there, and had to deal with the kooky habits of the Mr Peterman character.

matsemann• 1 year ago

Huh, for me the nice part of being rich would be to not have to choose between so much goods.

Like, when buying a new bicycle I have to spent lots of time figuring out the tradeoffs between what I want, what I can get a different price points etc, as buying something wrong will set me back and be a while until I can try again. But for a reach person, they can just buy the top spec of everything, and if they don't like it just buy from a different brand.

Of course, since I'm interested in cycling, this nerding is a bit fun. But for loads of stuff it's just a hassle. Like our oven recently broke down. Then I had to spend a few evenings researching what to buy, how to get it delivered, what to do with installation etc. If I had more money, I could just tell someone to fix it, and "get me the best one".

EvanAnderson4• 1 year ago

The specific catalogs seemed to cater to the specific interests these people would have enjoyed nerding-out to. For stuff they weren't interested in it looks like they paid people to just buy the highest-end if everything else (appliances, electronics, HVAC, etc).

Suppafly8• 1 year ago

Huh, for me the nice part of being rich would be to not have to choose between so much goods.

A friend of mine has a friend that's a fancy lawyer and I went camping with them once and the lawyer had the best of the best of camping stuff. Like he just went to REI and was like "give me the best of whatever I need to camp this weekend." It's possible that he weighed the pros and cons of some of it, but I sorta doubt it. The tent fabric felt like silk and was the lightest weight of anything I've ever seen and I camp a lot of with a wide range of people that can afford nicer stuff. The tent didn't even have any branding on it. My friend was telling me about this bike the guy had, and it's basically carbon fiber everything probably $10k at least. He had wrecked his old bike and gave it to my buddy that would have just needed to get a few parts and have it assembled at a bike shop and it was basically too expensive for my buddy to justify it.

TheAceOfHearts• 1 year ago

One of the things that isn't really mentioned here is that extreme wealth and power lets you bring your special interests to life even when they wouldn't be particularly practical or economically viable. For example: did you know there was a large community of animators in North Korea because it was a special interest of Kim Jong-Il [0]?

Another example is how inheritors of the Walton fortune helped build tons of biking infrastructure in an Arkansas City [1].

I wish more ultrarich people would compete on building thriving communities, instead of maximizing their own personal luxuries and walling themselves off from the world. Silicon Valley is a bit of a deranged version of this, where different companies create their own little kingdoms of community for employees, while the broader community ends up being rather dull and uninviting.

[0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/North_Korean_animation

[1] https://www.nytimes.com/2025/04/13/us/how-an-arkansas-city-b...

_rpxpx2• 1 year ago

A very good explanation of why millionaires should be taxed out of existence. What an utter waste. I can't believe people still parrot the line about markets being "efficienct".

sokoloff2• 1 year ago

Does anyone seriously argue that mere millionaires shouldn’t exist? That’s a level of wealth that permits only around $50K/yr in retirement, assuming it's 100% liquid/investable. If a retiree had a paid-off house at the median price level, they'd have less than $30K/yr in retirement if they had to remain "not a millionaire".

Nearly 10% of Americans are millionaires (at least at the household level, not necessarily per-person). It's around 6% for UK and France.

_rpxpx2• 1 year ago

But those numbers aren't meaningful in a scenario in which that revenue were redistributed in social housing, public healthcare, and national insurance. I don't think the world needs, or can carry, any millionaires. Public affluence--public luxuries--like housing, libraries, schools, universities, trains, parks, museums etc, do far more for human welfare, and far less ecological damage.

brettermeier• 1 year ago

Downvoted by greedy billionaires...

shenenee• 1 year ago

Great. More Reddit nonsense

Havoc• 1 year ago

Almost more interesting to me how much permanence that comment has. Think I’ve come across it 3-4 times now

To me that suggests rich people buy privacy and the only info available is some random reddit comment

Cthulhu_8• 1 year ago

RESPECT. The respect you get at this level is just over-the-top. You are THE MAN in almost every circle. Governors look up to you. Fortune 500 CEOs look up to you. Presidents and Kings look at you as a peer.

This was the one that made me question the whole post. I don't for a second believe this respect is genuine. This isn't about the person you are, but the money you could spend on whoever's kissing your ass.

I mean if you can delude yourself into thinking it's genuine I'm sure it can be enjoyable, but I for one am confident anyone "up there" is scheming something. Political and economic chess. I'd rather just be wealthy enough but unknown.

Koshima• 1 year ago

I’ve noticed this as well. It’s surprising how often the true value of certain high-quality items isn’t obvious until you’ve experienced them firsthand. It’s not just about status, but often about longevity, comfort, or simply a better user experience.

For example, things like handmade leather shoes, solid wood furniture, or even high-end kitchen tools like Miele or Sub-Zero appliances can feel like overkill until you’ve actually used them. Then you start to appreciate the craftsmanship, the reduced hassle, and the longevity they offer.

Curious if others have had similar experiences – what’s one “expensive” item that genuinely changed your perception once you owned it?

mathverse7• 1 year ago

The thing is if you are wealthy you do not notice these things. They are just there. The luxury / highend items become a commodity. That's the minimum standard that you expect wherever you go.

Also these things are not really that expensive compared to 5-10M person.

Try Bora coocktops

detourdog2• 1 year ago

My theory is that the appliance market has developed a low cost tier of products that are poorly developed and produced. This tier of products have minimal quality standards and the thinking is the the consumer will replace it or move.

I had to purchase appliances for apartments and the first wave of products were breaking within a couple of years. I ended up purchasing appliances from high-end European companies in the second wave of appliances and haven't had issues for 3 years. The original ovens had 3 out of 5 failures before people moved in. 2 of them broke because the flimsiest plastic door latch protruding about 1" from the door broke. The doors of the oven could be removed with no tools. The company said they could send me new doors for a cost and that I could schedule a video call with the factory to learn how to re-install an oven door.

bluGill22• 1 year ago

Appliances have several different class and price is not a good indication of what class things are in. Cheap apartments want the cheapest appliances that will last and those people have the accountants to figure out what those are. However right next to the cheap appliances that last are cheap appliances that won't and often there is nobody that will tell you which is which. The you get into the mid range, where again there is junk and good stuff right next to each other. At the highest prices quality goes down just because there are not enough sales to figure out what is going to break and update the design in the early part of the sales cycle to fix issues.

Saigonautica• 1 year ago

I live in a developing Asian country so the numbers and brands in the equation are a bit different.

Anyway:

1. Good midrange Japanese cooking knives. I got one on a steep discount, and now I understand why people pay a premium for them. I even bought a second one.

2. Good brands of Chinese engineering equipment. I bought a Siglent oscilloscope instead of a Hantek / Uni-T one. Before that, I had only bought the cheapest tool sufficient for the job.

I found as I've reached middle-age, I just have a bit less energy to spend struggling with things I use daily. So in these roles I appreciate something that's better quality than I strictly need. I don't come from wealth, and am a notorious cheapskate even by local standards -- but those two things were able to change my mind!

mathverse7• 1 year ago

I find the most interesting bracket the 5-8M one where almost anything highend / luxury becomes a commodity.

Cthulhu_8• 1 year ago

Another related interesting one is that rich people don't wear brands anymore - brands are for normal people, they're advertised to look like they are for the rich but their prices are still in range for a lot of people if they put some money aside. This starts with iphones and airpods and goes to Louis Vuitton and the like.

The tech billionaires don't wear anything branded or flashy besides their $1M watches, just good and well fitting clothes.

mathverse7• 1 year ago

The definition of rich is not a tech billionaire though. It is literally anyone that can afford the LVMH and co.

It is definitely aimed at rich people just not billionaires. But yes these brands become commodity from a certain point...although one has to be rich to be fully dressed in those clothes and change / rotate every day.

snowwrestler4• 1 year ago

You think that happens at wealth = $5 million? One high-end luxury house costs more than that.

mathverse7• 1 year ago

I am thinking liquid not net worth.

elorant• 1 year ago

Wealthy people usually get concierge services. You go to a museum as a regular folk, it’s overcrowded and there’s like 20 other people looking at the same art piece you’re looking, trying to get a better shot from it. You visit as a wealthy individual, you get a private tour after hours with a dozen others when the museum is empty with a trained guide who can answer any questions you may have. You can view any art piece at your own pace from every angle you like. This goes on for pretty much every public service out there.

DamnInteresting• 1 year ago

I have some married friends who worked at Disneyland for years, and they have stories about wealthy park visitors and the escorted, line-skipping, side-loaded experience they have at each attraction. They are often shuttled around through dedicated parts of the underground tunnel system, and enter rides through alternate entrances, often experiencing the attractions entirely out of view of the gross public.

rsynnott7• 1 year ago

Worth $10mm-$30mm liquid (exclusive of value of primary residence). At this level, your needs are met.

... I mean, I think your _needs_ are met at a far, far lower level than that.

o0o0o• 1 year ago

I'm not from the US so I'm just curious why would anyone prefer to spend their time with a senator or president?

sumedh• 1 year ago

The rich and powerful businessmen in your country are doing it too with the politicians in your country to have favourable laws for them.

mikedelfino• 1 year ago

Most likely for lobbying purposes. You might want to support or block a bill, resolve an issue that affects you, or push for legal changes or permits that benefit your business. It's about influencing decisions that have a direct impact on your interests. And it doesn't even need to be business related; sometimes it's just like calling the building manager when something is annoying you and you're bored.

al_borland6• 1 year ago

Generally for the influence it can give them. If you don’t like how something is happening if your city/state/country, talking to those people can give you the power to get it changed.

Having friends in high places can also help if you happen to run into legal issues. Though there is growing scrutiny around this.

snowwrestler4• 1 year ago

The other answers are practical (e.g. lobbying) but I’ll give a less practical angle: proximity to uniqueness and power.

There are only 100 U.S. senators at a time. In contrast, Forbes estimates there are about 900 billionaires in the U.S. alone this year.

And it is extremely difficult to become a Senator. Many very rich people have tried and failed to win election to the U.S. Senate. It’s not as straight forward as success in business. Politics is somewhat like magic. It’s extremely difficult to predict what is going to attract votes when. A lot of very confident rich people have been humbled this way.

Politicians are also demonstrably popular in ways the very rich are not. You only become a Senator if hundreds of thousands, to millions, of individual citizens vote for you (depending on the state). Congress overall is unpopular, but individual politicians are fairly popular to their own constituencies. Again, this is not something you can just buy, and many very rich people are thirsty for this kind of public validation.

Finally, Senators have real power, at least collectively. If enough Senators agree on something, the police will make you do it. Rich people want to shape those decisions if they can, yes, but many also like the feeling of being “close” to that kind of power. Since most will never have it themselves.

The above goes for the president even more. And for many state governors too.

thinkingtoilet• 1 year ago

The other responses are correct, but they left out one important thing. People like to feel important. People like to go places other people can't. People get off on exclusivity. If you have an empty field no one will care. You put a big wall up and signs saying keep out all of a sudden people will risk their life climbing the wall just to get to that empty field. It's human nature.

elzbardico4• 1 year ago

Inflation sucks.

This is from 10 years ago. Multiply all values by some factor that I am too lazy to estimate, but a good bet would be to try to follow asset inflation rather than consumer prices inflation.

hello_computer• 1 year ago

organs, children, private investigations, professional harassment campaigns, & assassinations

notsydonia3• 1 year ago

You know how a person on 'average' income might sometimes browse retail sites as displacement activity, while waiting for something/someone or a side-quest etc?

Ultra-wealthy people also do that but they're trawling through Sothebys or Christies - eg: https://www.sothebys.com/en/buy/luxury/books-&-manuscripts/b...

They don't have time to read - say - a lengthy biography about a Civil War general but they can purchase their diary or letters - people who are interested in wealth preservation, especially across generations, are trained to disdain the ephemeral. They like primary documents and depending on their age/interests, cool stuff like first edition comic books or vintage niche Chanel clutch bags.

As impulsive or indulgent as it may seem - eg: I just saw a counterfeit version of Dante's Le Terze De Rime on there for $159,000 USD - the purchase are all investments and as such treated as a tax deductible by your team of accountants. If you purchase a bottle of Romanee St Vivant as an investment but (whoops) drink it - that $16,000 is a business loss. Or maybe a trust fund loss.

And once you start spending at a certain level on sites like those and others, there are extremely nice people who would like nothing more than to invite you to private showings, arrange a private briefing to bring you up to speed with whatever topic you'd like to learn more about or help you select the right gift with which to blow the mind of a business rival or someone you're courting.

I thought that reddit piece was weird. Why would the ultra-wealthy mess around with 'masstige' kitchenware appliances? They wouldn't even have a brand on their dishwasher - it would be commissioned by an architect or interior designer quietly maintained at regular intervals by an appliance engineer who has been either supplied-by your core op-secs team or thoroughly checked out by them etc etc.

esperent• 1 year ago

They wouldn't even have a brand on their dishwasher - it would be commissioned by an architect or interior designer quietly maintained at regular intervals by an appliance engineer

I'm not sure that I buy this. It's not simple to make a bespoke appliance like a dishwasher that's better than a very high end mass produced one. Where did you get the idea that this happens from?

mattmaroon• 1 year ago

That would be the ultimate status symbol, paying the world’s best dishwasher engineer to design you a custom one off dishwasher.

JKCalhoun8• 1 year ago

Yeah, dishwasher? I doubt it.

Custom wine cabinet? Sure.

anarticle• 1 year ago

The front is replaceable with cabinet door. That’s what they mean I think.

bluGill22• 1 year ago

Their custom appliances often are objectively worse than the high end mass produced ones. However they have a maintenance person on staff to deal with that so it isn't a problem.

As other pointed out, they often just have the mass produced appliance if they are not trying to show off.

notsydonia3• 1 year ago

Sorry, I guess what I meant is that this hypothetical ultra-wealthy person wouldn't think "I am going to get a <premium brand> dishwasher, as such. They'd assume it would be the absolute best. If this rich person fancied themselves as a chef, they'd absolutely obsess over the oven etc and have a very clear concept in mind - eg: a high end Aga. But the real estate brochure boast of all Miele (or Bosch, whatever) kitchens would not move them, as such.

mrguyorama3• 1 year ago

It's just a normal retail dishwasher, but it's been through some third party company who "customizes" it by removing any branding and maybe adding their own, and then sell it to the rich person through about 3 steps in a chain of middleman where it eventually gets to someone who just "solves" the "I need a house" problem of the rich person.

Cathode Ray Dude on Youtube talks about this in his videos about the Niveus media center computer https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Y2OPrGBxkD0

The rich do not give a single fuck how it functions. They have never even thought about that or considered it. If they bought a dishwasher that sucks at washing dishes, their staff will deal with that. If they bought one that breaks after a few months, it will be replaced and they probably will never know. They haven't even stepped foot in this house in months anyway.

The rich are not discerning purchasers because they do not have to be, and they think their time is way too valuable to care about simple things like "Am I spending too much on this" or "Will this widget actually work as advertised"

rsynnott7• 1 year ago

They wouldn't even have a brand on their dishwasher - it would be commissioned by an architect or interior designer quietly maintained at regular intervals by an appliance engineer who has been either supplied-by your core op-secs team or thoroughly checked out by them etc etc.

I _absolutely_ do not buy that very rich people have custom dishwashers. Like, _why_? There's no way it could be as good as a mass-produced unit; you benefit from massive economies of scale on the design, there, along with lessons learned from previous models.

ragazzina2• 1 year ago

For me it's the opposite: I cannot believe a rich person deals with "you need a Samsung account on the Samsung CleanDishes to unlock the QuickClean functionality".

fergie• 1 year ago

They don't have time to read - say - a lengthy biography

If theres one thing all the wealthy people in my life have it is in fact _time_, which in turn means that they take their leisure activities really, really seriously.

notsydonia3• 1 year ago

I disagree, although mine are clients not friends as such so you may have more insight. Running an empire or even managing a fortune you inherited is a tonne of work - there are so many people from the government, potentially bad hires, distant family members, not to mention actual criminals who think that the person's money would suit them a lot better. They have auditors to audit the auditors, barristers on call and philanthropy managers to gently explain to your 3rd cousin that your charity fund does not extend to funding their permaculture concept.

I also mean 'don't have time to read' to be a bit sarcastic - as in it's not a flex to read the best-selling biography of whoever that was reviewed favorably or might win the Pulitzer - but having acquired the guy's letters - that even the biography author could not get - that's your one-up.

There's also the evidently more ascetic end of the billionaire spectrum - eg: Peter Thiel, Michael Burry - who don't seem to be interested in luxury, as such.

oytis• 1 year ago

Your time is SOOOO valuable that you ration it. And that makes you lose connections with people.

Damn, that's me, and I am not even worth a million.

ccppurcell• 1 year ago

You too can live a life where you can buy whatever you want. All you have to do is change what you want.

amelius2• 1 year ago

Advertisements are constantly changing what I want ...

LandR• 1 year ago

All I want is time to go climbing and mountaineering.

I mostly can't because I have to work and getting 4-8 weeks off at a time is impossible.

dagw7• 1 year ago

If that is really all you want, either get a job where you get to go climbing and mountaineering as part of your job. Or reorganise your life you that you can live off of whatever you can earn in 4-8 month of working and then spend the other 4-8 month climbing.

I like to pretend that all I really want is to go skiing, but it turns out I also want to live in a nice house and be with my family. And for some reason I actually want that more.

coolcase2• 1 year ago

They buy politicians

geye1234• 1 year ago

As St. John Henry Newman put it:

"Contemplate the objects of this people's praise, survey their standards, ponder their ideas and judgments, and then tell me whether it is not most evident, from their very notion of the desirable and the excellent, that greatness, and goodness, and sanctity, and sublimity, and truth are unknown to them; and that they not only do not pursue, but do not even admire, those high attributes of the Divine Nature. This is what I am insisting on, not what they actually do or what they are, but what they revere, what they adore, what their gods are. Their god is mammon; I do not mean to say that all seek to be wealthy, but that all bow down before wealth. Wealth is that to which the multitude of men pay an instinctive homage. They measure happiness by wealth; and by wealth they measure respectability. Numbers, I say, there are who never dream that they shall ever be rich themselves, but who still at the sight of wealth feel an involuntary reverence and awe, just as if a rich man must be a good man. They like to be noticed by some particular rich man; they like on some occasion to have spoken with him; they like to know those who know him, to be intimate with his dependants, to have entered his house, nay, to know him by sight. Not, I repeat, that it ever comes into their mind that the like wealth will one day be theirs; not that they see the wealth, for the man who has it may dress, and live, and look like other men; not that they expect to gain some benefit from it: no, theirs is a disinterested homage, it is a homage resulting from an honest, genuine, hearty admiration of wealth for its own sake, such as that pure love which holy men feel for the Maker of all; it is a homage resulting from a profound faith in wealth, from the intimate sentiment of their hearts, that, however a man may look,—poor, mean, starved, decrepit, vulgar; or again, though he may be ignorant, or diseased, or feeble-minded, though he have the character of being a tyrant or a profligate, yet, if he be rich, he differs from all others; if he be rich, he has a gift, a spell, an omnipotence;—that with wealth he may do all things."[0]

There is a reason that money specifically, and not sex or knowledge or socializing or other good things that can get out of hand, is worshiped as a god by so many.

[0] https://www.newmanreader.org/works/discourses/discourse5.htm...

sublinear3• 1 year ago

I'm gonna go out on a limb here and say "being rich" is not a personality or set of preferences. Lavish spending is still seen as pointlessly insecure by anyone on any budget. Many things are good enough for anyone.

Relevant Andy Warhol quote: "Sometimes you fantasize that people who are really up there and rich and living it up have something you don’t have, that their things must be better than your things because they have more money than you."

https://core100.columbia.edu/article/excerpt-philosophy-andy...

Also worth pointing out that we are commenting on reddit posts. Reddit is the last place anyone should seek advice beyond how to do something or find info about hobbies.

Invictus0• 1 year ago

Warhol must really be lacking in imagination. I live in a college town and none of my friends here can afford to buy a comfortable couch or chair. The difference between the trash on Wayfair and something of higher quality that might cost a few thousand dollars is night and day.

sublinear3• 1 year ago

Not sure we're talking about the same topic? I'm pretty sure just about everyone has stuff from Ikea.

resource_waste2• 1 year ago

Lavish spending is still seen as pointlessly insecure by anyone on any budget.

I seen and lived this until I got my wake up call.

I was regular upper middle class, I would laugh at people who thought I was poor for having an Android because I could easily afford a $1000 iphone, I just didnt want it.

Then I got into philosophy and inevitably Stoicism, where I found happiness within.

Then I read too much philosophy and realized the promises of such ethical philosophy were harmful to my own well-being. I went full Nietzsche and realized that spending money was a demonstration of power. As Thomas Hobbes says: 'Fame makes more fame, power makes more power.'

Thus, pointless lavish spending does have a point, its to demonstrate power, which grows power.

I genuinely feel like 30+ years of my life I was tricked into a religion of modesty against my own interests. Meanwhile, the people I mocked, rappers/rich people/etc... had the right idea. Or at least right in my current set of Values.

(And if you disagree with my values, prove I'm wrong, best of luck, there is nothing backing pure reason, and if you want to be an empiricist, we have peacocking)

sublinear3• 1 year ago

I do agree that demonstrating power, at least to yourself, is important for your self esteem. Pretty damn sure money is just tangential to that.

Consider that there are very powerful people out there who might not even carry a phone with them at all and see that as beneath them. It's a matter of values, not money.

I could easily afford a $1000 iphone, I just didnt want it.

Rich people are also capable of thinking this? They're just people, man. They're also totally free to not care about anything they don't want to.

is_true• 1 year ago

Where are you from? I find that some countries in Europe try to make their citizens behave like that.

moneywoes2• 1 year ago

can you elaborate more please

jl62• 1 year ago

The richest people I know don’t have work-life balance, they have a supercritical work-life fluid.

dhuk_2018• 1 year ago

Can you further explain this?

hnthrow90348765• 1 year ago

Basically it's their personality, but they don't do like 8-12 hours/6 days a week of drudgery work like building web apps on a deadline for someone else - that shit's draining. But if I'm putting money to work knowing my (rich) life is secure and more in control of my destiny, it's empowering for a lot of people to stay connected to it 24/7 even though it's "work".

jl62• 1 year ago

At high temperatures and pressures, some substances are neither liquid nor gas, but a fluid with properties of both.

Whereas most people work to live, and prefer boundaries between the two, worklife is an intertwined way of being.

Brunch with your business partners, afternoon shaking hands on a golf course, dinner with a senator, placing bets on Wall Street, a penthouse suite at the resort hotel where you’re keynoting, hosting a fundraiser at your home…

bane3• 1 year ago

Grew up poor, made it a little in life - could maybe retire now. The things I and the people I grew up with don't know how to do at all can be shocking. People who grew up similarly and ended up in middle class seem to be similar unless they put real time into it:

- how to buy stocks, what ETFs are, what a 401(k) is, etc.

- hiring people to clean your house, do yard work, etc.

- traveling out of the country, or in many cases, how to take a plane to a part of the country that's too far to drive

- how financing works, ranges from personal credit cards to mortgages, and thus what TCO means. The number of people I grew up with who were fine with 12% on a car loan and what that meant to the final cost of the car is flabbergasting

- how to buy high-quality (expensive) stuff vs brand recognition (expensive) stuff

some anecdotes:

- a friend of mine recently did retire after 30 years in the government, wanted to buy stocks, had no idea what a brokerage was

- another guy I know, an airline pilot who grew up in a broken home and ended up with a business degree, figured out how to buy stocks, but didn't know what index funds were or that they exist outside of his 401(k)

- perfectly middle class people who will spend all weekend cleaning their house and doing yard work, and hate it, who thought hiring a cleaning person and lawn mowing guy would be too expensive ($35k-50k/yr)

- a lot of people I know are afraid to travel to non-English speaking countries even if they've been outside of the U.S., they can't fathom that you can get by in most places with English, a translate app, and pointing and smiling. Even tourist friendly places with plenty of English signage and English speaking help like France or Japan are unfathomably exotic

jjice• 1 year ago

I find this super interesting and something I've thought about a bit in the past. All of these things combined are relatively simple. You could give a decent breakdown of each bullet point within an hour each, with room to dive in deeper if needed. Now with the internet and all the great resources out there, the access is there for most people (in a place like the US) to learn about these.

I think the main problem now is that these are "unknown unknowns". People don't even know to know what a 401k or similar is and thus don't know that there's something to dive deeper into there. That missing piece is very hard to solve.

I've had it myself where I run into something in my career, for example, where I'm introduced to a concept I wasn't aware of that I now use to underpin serious decision making about something like application architecture. Had I never had the opportunity to initially find out about a problem/solution, it would've made it notably harder to get better.

All the things you lists are things I personally associate with familial education. Most of those things were taught to my by my family, having grown up in a middle class home. If my parents hadn't had the opportunity to learn about those, neither would I. It's a familial/potentially class (depending on the situation) based learning opportunity, purely based on the education your family was able to receive (whether formal or not).

School is also a place to inject these concepts (personal finance specifically), and I did have a great experience with the personal finance elective at my high school when I was in 9th grade.

Tangentially, I don't think that's a perfect solution (but still important) because teenagers will absolutely ignore/tune in the info out. When people say they wish that had learned how to do their taxes in high school, I agree in principle and I do think it should be taught, but I also believe most teenagers (at least around me growing up) wouldn't have payed any attention. It doesn't mean we shouldn't teach it, but educating a teen is hard.

bane3• 1 year ago

yup, it's very hard to bootstrap without knowing where the next step even is in a dark room.

All the things you lists are things I personally associate with familial education.

I absolutely agree. Or some good mentor. If your entire family runs paycheck to mouth, the likelihood of somebody able to guide you towards a low fee brokerage that provides you with the financial advice to differentiate between different investment instruments is vanishingly small. Even people who make it into white-collar jobs with 401ks are likely to only vaguely understand that it's something more than a weird savings account they can't touch.

Investment takes a certain kind of stomach and can be a very expensive training exercise. Lots of people don't do it well, even highly sophisticated and educated investors.

I remember we spent a couple weeks on stocks and bonds in a class in middle school, but basically zero time on personal finance, how loans work, how to read legal paperwork, run a ledger, etc. Those have almost always been a "learn on the job" thing since I've been alive.

flerchin• 1 year ago

I think a cleaning person and lawn guy should be more like $3500-$5k per year.

e40• 1 year ago

The given range was the assumed incorrect price, which made them not contract for the service.

ty68534• 1 year ago

The real cost of hiring people to do stuff for your house is it's actually hella expensive to get licensed and bonded legal employees with references that attest they aren't thieves, and if you don't eventually they steal your shit or they get hurt and sue you for a billion dollars.

I could easily hire people to do it, but I sweat bullets everytime I am guilt tripped into letting a neighbor kid mow the lawn because I know if he gets hurt I'll lose everything (renter's/ homeowners insurance usually doesn't cover unlicensed contractors).

anon291• 1 year ago

Umbrella insurance is very cheap, and if you have any money at all, you should have it.

rcbdev2• 1 year ago

The quintessentially American perpetual fear of lawsuits is sickening to the unwitting bystander.

marcuskane22• 1 year ago

how to buy stocks, what ETFs are, what a 401(k) is, etc.

I've seen this before, and I remain incredulous.

We learned about stocks in 4th grade and did a mock exercise picking stocks and tracking their performance over a few weeks. We did calculations on mortgage interest and investment returns in middle school math class. Every news source has a finance section and talks about stocks regularly. There are advertisements for brokerages on every TV commercial break and everywhere else ads are found. Every company I've ever worked for had a mandatory training about the 401k as part of employee onboarding and usually ongoing mentions at least once a year. There are a zillion personal finance websites, podcasts, blogs and youtube channels.

It seems like if an alien landed in the US or a time traveler arrived here, they'd learn about ETFs and 401ks within the first 24 hours whether they wanted to or not.

People have to be actively, intentionally avoiding learning these things or actively tuning it out or forgetting, because they're dead simple and information about them is incredibly easy to find.

bane3• 1 year ago

When I did the equivalent "lets learn about stocks" at school, we opened the newspaper, found a stock, "invested" fake money in a ledger the teacher kept, and then cashed out at the end of three weeks after doing some rough calculations.

The equivalent for a real world person would have been to

1) know what a brokerage was

2) find one

3) drive there and fill out some paperwork to make the account

4) deposit a paper check or cash at the location

5) get a phone # with a specific broker at the brokerage

6) subscribe to a local paper with the stock section

7) watch one of several thousand stocks, and write down by hand the movement of the stocks to see if you could set a strategy

8) maybe buy subscriptions for some investment magazines, a few hundred dollars per year

9) decide the time is right, call your broker, leave a message with his secretary to get back to you

10) wait for that to happen, then place your order. your broker would then charge you a percentage (up to 3% of your trade!) as their fee

11) Angry men in a pit in NYC would yell at each other for hours to make the trade. The trade would be communicated on scraps of paper with hastily written numbers, then shouted over a phone on the trading floor

12) wait for your broker to send you physical mail with your certificates or a record of ownership showing that the trade closed several days after you placed it with him

13) go through a similar process to sell your stock certificates, but then have to self track capital gains for your taxes

Can you name a single reason why you think a poor person living paycheck-to-meal would even know about or wish to participate in this?

Things got better with the internet, which didn't exist for most people until I was an adult (I know because I helped start an ISP), it still cost $30 trade electronically and settlement still didn't happen for days. So somebody making hundreds of dollars a month would have to lose $30, just to make a bet of whatever they were able to scrimp together over months, in the hope it would turn into more than $30 so they could sell it and make money above the trading fee.

Again, why would a poor person, who may not even have a bank account, be a participant in this?

So, to help with your incredulity, why would somebody, who is from a poor family, with not a single person around them trading stocks, most without full-time employment, take a brief class when they were 10, retain those precious handful of classroom hours, until they get lucky enough to have disposable income decades later and suddenly decide "I'm going to trade ETFs" <insert rich yacht buying cat meme picture>

Most people don't work in companies with a 401k, or even with any benefits at all. Why would they be familiar with managing one? Next time you eat out, trade some tips with your waiter on how they diversify their retirement investments. Ask them which ETFs they like, and if any have especially low fees, or do they pursue a market segment strategy. What's their opinion on I-bonds? Maybe they have a prediction if Cathie Wood is a cook or not?

subpixel• 1 year ago

I grew up upper middle-class and graduated from the ivy league. I will not list out how antithetical my own experience is to yours, but I promise you your financial education was highly abnormal.

I'd wager walking down Main Street USA and asking people in their 30s and 40s what stocks they own and what an ETF is would be get you a lot of blank stares.

mark_l_watson• 1 year ago

Five or ten years ago I listened to a podcast that featured an ex-butler of a billionaire family and he talked about ‘his family’ and their friends who were also very rich. The ex-butler said that the quality of the food they ate was perfect, extremely flavorful 100% nutritious meals. I can kind-of get this: the town my wife and I used to live in had two very expensive restaurants that served simple, totally delicious healthy food and I can imagine how wonderful it would be to a skilled chef serve you three meals a day like this.

Suppafly8• 1 year ago

There are middle class versions of that where you pool with a handful of friends and family and have the chefs meal prep for you. Or you can provide room and board to a culinary student and have them cook meals for you.

mattlondon• 1 year ago

For me, it is paying extra for the wall-time and experiences, and less about the material things.

Not saying I am "super wealthy" but we've paid a lot (but no obscene amounts) for a few things that felt kinda like "rock-star" treatment. Anyone can pay for these.

One example is my wife and I flew to Venice for a long weekend and hired a speed-boat to transfer us from the airport to our hotel. We literally walked up to the pier, threw our carry-on bags in the back, jumped in and roared off. I have this enduring memory of seeing some of the people who were on the same flight as us lining up and waiting for the water-bus thing as they watched us just speed off into the literal sunset. It wasn't crazy-expensive but totally worth it.

Another was we paid for an "escort" at an airport in Peru - they met us at our hotel, took us to the airport in a taxi, basically pushed us past the huge lines of people waiting for check-in, argued in Spanish with someone behind a desk, and then pushed us past more lines of people until we got to the front of the line for security where we said goodbye and waited for our cattle-class flight. Again, this was not a huge amount of money but saved a bunch of time and stress.

Generally speaking, tl;dr, I find paying a little extra for not having to wait for things at airports and hotels and theme parks and that sort of thing is what makes the every-day difference for me.

Getting wafted past the lines of people waiting for things or someone just sorting shit out for you so you don't have to are the day-to-day things that being in the top 95-98%ile of the population wealthwise makes all the difference. You save the time, and get that little zing of excitement/awkwardness as you are taken past the lines of others waiting.

Suppafly8• 1 year ago

One example is my wife and I flew to Venice for a long weekend and hired a speed-boat to transfer us from the airport to our hotel. We literally walked up to the pier, threw our carry-on bags in the back, jumped in and roared off.

Not as fancy, but my wife and kid met some friends in chicago, and the friends sprung for a water taxi to get them all from one side of town to the other. It's not even that expensive, but not something we'd just spend money on vs walking a bit and taking a train or bus.

anon-39882• 1 year ago

I would love to say that I would not do any of these superficial things but I have clearly raised my standards of living after earning good wages. Thankfully its not "linear", I think.

But I think I am self conscious enough that I am always asking if I should really be doing or buying stuff that I can perfectly afford. Do I really need that new phone? I have a perfectly serviceable phone, what do I really get from these stuff that is totally within my mean.

However, it is more nuanced than that. For example, I think VVIP SHOULD be taking private flights instead of commercial ones. Should CEOs of big companies really be sharing flights with literal whos across the Atlantic? Probably not. But should these private jets have indoor tennis court or whatever it is they have? Also probably not.

Suppafly8• 1 year ago

Do I really need that new phone? I have a perfectly serviceable phone, what do I really get from these stuff that is totally within my mean.

I always wonder how rich I'd need to be to just buy a new phone. I always get the step down models and use them for years, only upgrading when they stop working well or I get forced to upgrade when they change network technologies. I could afford to buy any phone I wanted right now, but it seems like such a financially dumb decision.

anon-39882• 1 year ago

Well, my phone just randomly died the other day. Now it works again. The charging port is also getting less reliable (have to push in a certain way).

Is this useable phone? Yea. How much more annoying should it get before I could justifiably get a new phone?

jbs789• 1 year ago

It's probably obvious but the more they have then the more they spend (as a share of total spend) on appreciating rather than depreciating assets. The appreciating assets often aren't visible - stakes in companies for example. (But sometimes they are, such as real estate.)

canucker201612• 1 year ago

Build a custom home for an estimated $50M, list the house for $~30M, sell for ~$10M after 12 years on the market.

see https://finance.yahoo.com/news/michael-jordan-sells-massive-...

rcbdev2• 1 year ago

The one thing I have learned here is that Americans seem very obsessed with Miele-branded appliances for no apparent reason. Did they somehow strike marketing gold an entire ocean away? Why not Bosch, Siemens or Elektra Bregenz?

mixmastamyk5• 1 year ago

Marketing yes, and exporting only the high end. Like Mercedes… Americans are mostly not aware that they also sell cheap busses and taxis in Europe.

em5004• 1 year ago

Maybe there's a bit of a Steve Jobs effect, who was publicly known as a Miele fan. (https://www.businessinsider.com/steve-jobs-washer-dryer-2011...)

canucker201612• 1 year ago

Tom Cruise buys a white chocolate coconut bundt cake for each of his (mostly famous) friends each year - https://www.theguardian.com/film/2020/dec/15/tom-cruise-deca...

If you're in the Los Angeles area, you can visit the bakery yourself or if you're in the USA, you can order a cake from them - https://www.goldbelly.com/restaurants/doans-bakery/white-cho...

N.B. No affiliation with Tom Cruise, Doan's, or Goldbelly.

emilycole0• 1 year ago

Just wanted to share my experience—Reviva0 on Telegram helped me recover $180,000 that I lost to a fake crypto trading platform. I honestly thought it was gone for good, but their team came through for me. Super professional and legit. If you’ve been scammed, don’t lose hope—reach out to them. Grateful doesn’t even begin to cover it.

What do wealthy people buy, that ordinary people know nothing about? (2015)

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