MacBook Pro gets Retina Display; MacBook Air updated with Ivy Bridge

http://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2012/06/macbook-pro-gets-retina-display-macbook-air-also-updated-with-ivy-bridge/

by sciurus • 14 years ago

378 525 14 years ago

arstechnica.com

SeoxyS• 14 years ago

Looks like I'll have to be heading to the Apple store after the keynote is over...

Edit: I'm curious, why the downvotes?

ceejayoz3• 14 years ago

Where you'll be told "come back another day"?

marknutter• 14 years ago

Probably because it didn't add much to the discussion, which is actually what down-voting is technically supposed to be used for. Makes sense, I wouldn't want this comment to be up towards the top - it's just you saying you want to buy a MBP.

breckinloggins3• 14 years ago

This may sound weird, but I'm most curious to see how the terminal looks on a retina display (when Apple or someone like iTerm makes one for it). I think having paper-resolution monospaced fonts will be awesome.

flixic• 14 years ago

I know that true hackers don't anti-alias monotype fonts, but I have been using anti-aliased Consolas for a few years now. It is a font best-designed coding books use (http://www.abookapart.com/), and it should only look better, not worse, on print-like display.

dasil0033• 14 years ago

> I know that true hackers don't anti-alias monotype fonts

That may be true, but they're going to need a monocle if they want to see 9-pt courier at native resolution on one of these bad boys.

skeletonjelly• 14 years ago

It was basically designed for Visual Studio 2010 to use ClearType anti-aliasing yeah

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Consolas

icegreentea• 14 years ago

Should clear this up. There is an updated MacBook Air line (11" and 13"). There is an updated MacBook Pro line (13" and 15" with 'normal' screen, same chassis and updated internals). And then there is a new 15" MacBook Pro with a 2880 x 1800 screen and is 0.71" thick. I like to dub this one the MacBook Pro Air.

orbitingpluto• 14 years ago

Thanks for adding that.

As I understand, the "Retina display" label takes into account the recommended viewing distance from the display. An iPhone display will be held much closer than someone (with proper posture) at a laptop.

megablast3• 14 years ago

So the Air do not have the retina display? The 15" pro would be good, but can not go back to a mechanical hdd.

aiscott2• 14 years ago

It's flash based, up to 768GB.

jmelloy• 14 years ago

The 15" Pro with the retina display is SSD.

mtgx• 14 years ago

No, but if you want you can get 11" or 13" ultrabook from Asus with a 1080p resolution.

reustle• 14 years ago

I'm waiting for them to rename the MacBook Air to MacBook.

eli2• 14 years ago

I think they are all eventually going to be MacBook.

saturdaysaint3• 14 years ago

As a 2011 MacBook Air user, my biggest envy is USB 3.0. Thunderbolt accessories have been few and far between, and then priced at an exorbitant premium.

But hey, they finally made a Thunderbolt Firewire adapter cable.

notatoad2• 14 years ago

USB 3 accessories are pretty far and few between too, aren't they? What do you actually want to plug in to that port?

adrianhoward• 14 years ago

My external hard drive :-)

I throw a lot of data around. I like backups. The difference between USB2 and USB3 will be non-trivial for me.

pbrumm3• 14 years ago

cheap extra hard drive dock would be first

http://www.amazon.com/Thermaltake-ST0022U-Plastic-Docking-St...

all the thunderbolt ones are very expensive.

geori• 14 years ago

I sure am glad that I bought a 2 TB USB 3.0 last year before I had anything with USB 3.0 ports!

natural2192• 14 years ago

I have been a Windows user my whole life. As a hacker who has recently moved to San Francisco, I've continuously battled Apple fanboys and Linux fanatics alike on why I love Windows and absolutely do not understand why people want to switch platforms.

Then I watched this keynote.

I'm buying a Macbook Pro.

microtonal2• 14 years ago

Why? I have been using a Mac since 2007. So far, I haven't seen anything spectacular in this keynote except for the retina display. But $2199 (probably 2199 Euro in Europe) is a steep price.

Edit: Given the lack of real interesting updates in OS X since Leopard and recent iOS versions, I am actually quite interested in Windows 8 and Windows Phone after ~18 years of using Unix-like operating systems and ~5.5 years a Mac.

prezjordan• 14 years ago

Probably just got pushed over the edge.

gurkendoktor3• 14 years ago

I thought 10.6 was so-so - I preferred Leopard's Exposé. I hate 10.7. But 10.8 makes sense again, especially now that 3rd-party apps are catching up with the concepts of 10.7.

moystard• 14 years ago

As much as I love this new Macbook Pro with this beautiful retina display, Mountain Lion is just another iteration in the iOS direction and I still don't like the user experience. As usual, I will use several tools to get back to the old but good desktop metaphor with less shiny but functional features.

mrb• 14 years ago

Mac Book Pro with Retina display = 2279 EUR in France http://store.apple.com/fr/browse/home/shop_mac/family/macboo...

marquis2• 14 years ago

Could you be specific about what swayed you? I'm not sure what is so new, announced today, that you couldn't have bought yesterday: Retina? Will you continue to run Windows?

phamilton5• 14 years ago

It's an Air-like laptop with real performance. It has a real graphics card, can support 16 GB of ram and has a rockin Ivy Bridge processor. The retina display is very impressive as well.

huggyface3• 14 years ago

Could you be specific about what swayed you?

Such announcements provide opportunity for a pivot point. It isn't so much the announcement itself as that the announcement provides a claimed justification for changing positions.

I bought my first Apple product ever a few months back (an iPad 3rd generation). Then I added an Apple TV (ridiculously good value).

I still use Android for my smartphone (and have no plans on changing that anytime soon, considering iOS a serious downgrade on the smartphone side), however I have to confess that this release provides me such a pivot point for my desktop/laptop use. I'd long considered getting a Mac but could never justify it. Microsoft is so rudderless and ill-directed now, and Apple is so large and in charge, this product such a technical powerhouse, that I will likely grab a new MBP "Air".

natural2192• 14 years ago

Honestly, it's a culmination of things. Up until this point, a friend of mine have been comparing the top-of-the-line ultrabook offerings to the Mac lineups. I thought the Zenbooks looked really sexy and had the performance and construction that I wanted. The new Zenbook Prime announcement has had me salivating; 1080p IPS displays, new Ivy Bridge processors, etc.

After this announcement, though; the Retina display, awesome graphics, HDMI port (Macbook dongles turned me off for a while), 700MBPS read on the hard drive (I'll have to confirm this -- that just sounds too sexy) -- Even the 0.70 inch thickness (I've never really cared about thickness before, but holy hell that's really thin). There are probably some things I've misinterpreted from these announcements, but so far, this laptop far outweighs what I thought was possible through existing PC laptop vendors.

calinet65• 14 years ago

I'm not usually a 'specs' person, but have you read about Ivy Bridge?

breckinloggins3• 14 years ago

Just promise us that when you do, you won't become a rabid fanboy yourself.

By all rights I should be the biggest fanboy ever. All my computers are Macs. I have an Apple TV. I stood in line to buy the first iPhone on launch day and have owned nothing but iPhones since. I have an iPad. I insist on using Apple services like iTunes so everything "just works" with all my Apple devices. I even converted my whole family from PCs to Macs and, yes, my "family tech support" calls have dropped.

But I'm not what you would call a "fanboy".

If someone asks why I like Apple products, I try to give rational reasons but I admit from the start that I'm biased and just "like them", plus I "think they're cool". I never sneer at PC users or people with Android phones. I don't make lame jokes about "Winblows" and such.

I guess my point is it's possible to become a total convert and still not annoy the heck out of everyone around you. I'm not saying you don't know that, just that you should monitor yourself. Once you become loyal to a brand (Apple, BMW, B&W loudspeakers, whatever) it's sometimes difficult to tell the difference between being a proud evangelist and an annoying cultist.

Luckily, I had some friends who helped me whenever I veered too far in the latter direction. :)

calinet65• 14 years ago

IMHO Apple fanboyism is not a problem in the hacker community.

It's a well-built solid metal portable development workstation. With BSD UNIX. And a pretty layer on top.

Among programmers, I never need to explain why we would buy these things.

It's outside the programming groups that the conversation gets hostile. I find most programmers avoid this completely, knowing that they're simply using the best tool available for the job, and ignoring the hype, criticism, and fanboyism. Props, hackers, keep it up.

abc_lisper• 14 years ago

Exactly. I'm like this. I have all Apple paraphernalia, but I only buy them because they work well and look good. If Roku produces a player that works with all routers, and not crap out on updates, have customer support that can help me, I would use theirs. But it isn't the case and I can't waste my money.

ageektrapped• 14 years ago

Speaking as a Windows user who uses a Mac for dev on iOS: you will be frustrated by Mac OS, at least initially. I've been using Mac OS daily for over a year and I still find Windows superior in many ways. This is my opinion, of course. Not trying to change minds or trolling.

That retina display is dead sexy though.

breckinloggins3• 14 years ago

I love my Mac (as I said in my reply to OP), but I agree that Mac OS takes some getting used to. Luckily I had some Linux experience before switching so I felt right at home at the terminal. But some things still feel odd to me, even after several years.

- The unified menu bar makes sense and saves space, but it's still somewhat disconcerting to someone who is used to their menus having some spatial context with what they are controlling.

- I've always hated the "three gumballs". I much prefer Windows' minimize, maximize, and quit windows controls. Again, the "maximum useful size" feature makes sense, but it's almost never what I want. I really miss Aero snap. There are some programs that will help you out for this stuff. I'm pretty partial to Moom myself. UPDATE: Moom JUST got updated with a "snap to corners" feature. I like it!

- The Finder is still pretty brain-dead. Windows explorer is much better for a power-user.

- And then there's XCode. Oh how I miss Visual Studio. Yes, XCode is getting nicer by the year, but I also do Windows development on my Parallels VM so I'm constantly reminded of how much nicer it is to code C# in Visual Studio than Objective-C in XCode (and I don't even mind Objective-C as a language).

mikeryan• 14 years ago

Its funny I had the same issue but can say after 5 years on a Mac it goes away. That and I sometimes have to work on a Windows 7 machine for certain SDK's and now I'm lost over there. Mostly I miss the large multi-touch track pad (I have to use a mouse on the windows laptop) and Expose, which I seem to use a lot.

The new Windows 8 Metro UI will create an ever bigger gap between the two it seems.

All that being said, w/r/t an OS it seems like the one you're most comfortable on is the one you should use. Its really hard to say any one that is objectively better at this point.

swah2• 14 years ago

On Win7 now, have been on the Mac and would get back if I had the means. One thing I will never get used to on Macs: no Ctrl-C.

_b8r05• 14 years ago

As someone using the 2011 Macbook (bought about a month ago) I have to say some things really annoy me in OSX, some things less so. I'm slowly getting used to the Mac way of doing things, but still occasionally cmd-L to lock my screen only to find I have to go to a hot corner instead.

newman314• 14 years ago

I've been using a Mac for a while but have yet to find a way to remap Command-Q to something else. I've accidentally exited more than my share of apps instead of closing a window. IMO those are just too close together. I would rather have a Cmd-Shift-Q or something similar.

barrkel4• 14 years ago

I run Windows on my MBA for when I'm travelling. Apple make fantastic hardware; but their saccharine UIs make me retch.

One constant, though: over the past 10 years, I've moved my life further and further into the Cygwin command line, so that I'm insulated from the frippery going on at the edges; with my setup, I'm approximately as at home on Linux, Solaris, Mac and Windows. I'm not optimistic based on what I've seen of Windows 8's direction.

lazerwalker2• 14 years ago

Out of curiosity, if you're comfortable with Linux and do a lot of work in a Cygwin environment, what are your reasons for running Windows as your MBA's main OS rather than a Linux flavor?

protomyth• 14 years ago

Do spend some time learning about "Services", I get a lot of mileage out of those.

jmsduran• 14 years ago

Although I didn't watch the keynote, I tuned in to the live tweeting CNN gave. Don't get me wrong, Apple's Macbook Pro is a nice piece of hardware, but I failed to see anything earth-shattering in their recent announcements.

At a high level, they're really just upgrading to Ivy Bridge, USB 3.0, and Retina displays across their notebook line. Nothing mind-blowing really.

pooriaazimi• 14 years ago

A 2880x1880 screen, with top of the line CPU with highest build quality at $2199 IS mind-blowing. Those screens don't come cheap.

polycom2• 14 years ago

I think the diaplays alone are pretty great. What would it take for you to call them mind-blowing?

morsch• 14 years ago

I think 2880x1800 is pretty mind-blowing. Steady improvements have been the norm in most areas. But display resolutions have been stagnant at best.

ionforce• 14 years ago

The mind-blowing part is their ability to consistently deliver a stream of updates. The mind-blowing part must be seen a step back, not year to year.

But you're absolutely right. There's nothing in this one single keynote that's like WAPOWW!!!!

xiaoma• 14 years ago

I too was windows/nix only until joining a start-up in Beijing that was doing iOS work. It amazes me how quickly I adjusted to Mac OS and after only a year I find it frustrating every time I have to go back to windows. Having just moved to San Francisco myself, I find it nice suddenly being in the majority.

Edit: Oh, and as soon as I have a job, I'm getting one! I've been drooling over Ivy Bridge specs for months.

listic3• 14 years ago

What's so great about Ivy bridge specs? I'm underwhelmed because electrical economy failed to materialize.

steverb2• 14 years ago

To be frank, Apple makes awesome Windows PCs. Their Windows drivers are quite good also. Still hate the placement of the control key on the keyboard though, but I am slowly becoming acclimated to it.

bermanoid• 14 years ago

Remap caps lock to control, and you'll be a lot more comfortable.

Unless you use that other text editor, you know, the one that makes you always have to reach for the escape key...in that case, I suppose you should map it to escape instead.

darrenkopp2• 14 years ago

I still don't understand why people want to switch platforms. I'm using a macbook pro with windows. OSX is terrible in my opinion, and so I just use bootcamp and go on my merry way.

fjorder2• 14 years ago

I've spent a reasonable amount of time using Windows, Linux, and OSX. All of them suck. All of them are also awesome, at different things.

If you want an living room PC for entertainment, Windows is king. Neither Linux or OSX support Bluray properly and Windows still has a huge edge in gaming. Windows also supports the most hardware. That's become unimportant to most people, but if you work in a research lab with various oddball computer controlled devices around, you are often forced to work with Windows simply because that's the only OS supported by drivers for a lot of things.

OSX is the perfect OS for your mother. There's the one "Apple way" of doing things, so if she needs help it's easy to give her some. OSX gets decent battery life (on mac hardware) and still has a few Unix friendly features that haven't been locked away by Apple yet. If you're looking for a ghetto linux workstation, OSX will do in a pinch. I actually spent the better part of last year working under OSX on a Mac Book air. I've used Mac's off and on for decades and this is just the most recent stint (The MBA hardware lured me in this time). It worked, but the OS still puts up too much fight you when you try to customize it. OSX has also gotten rather buggy. I'm relieved to have retired it. As I said, while it would be great for my mother I personally detest OSX. Also, Mac hardware is moving away from the DIY crowd. e.g. The MBA's actually use proprietary screws to keep you out of your own laptop's innards. If you've ever saved a laptop from a coffee spill by disconnecting the battery and opening it up and doing a little cleaning, just bear in mind you won't be able to do that with most future macs.

Linux is bug central. Don't get me wrong, it's come a long way from the days when Slackware was king. You can install Ubuntu and almost everything will just work. The devil is in the details though, and if you have a low tolerance for flakiness you'll have to tweak away. However, no other OS is as powerful and flexible. If you want it to do X, it can do X in dozens of different ways. If the journey is as important as the destination for you, Linux is your OS.

Windows is all things to all people, but entertainment first and foremost. OSX is for your mother or people who would rather not use a real computer. Linux is for those who embrace the quest. Decide (and be honest with yourself) what kind of user you are and your OS preference will become clear, although what you are forced to use may be different. I currently use both Windows and Linux extensively, and occasionally help my Mom with OSX.

fjorder2• 14 years ago

One further note on hardware quality:

Perceived hardware quality is something Apple is fantastic at. Their laptops look and feel great. They feel like they'll last decades. This is misleading since they're actually built to be disposable. e.g. If you spill coffee on your Macbook Air, it's dead. You can't fix it because you can't remove the battery in a timely fashion and don't have the tools to open it. Apple won't fix it because their warranty doesn't cover spills. They won't even open it up and help you clean it up. They'll just tell you it's now off warranty and to kindly buy another or PFO. This is the big apple lie. Their stuff feels like heirlooms, but it's built to be binned at the first sign of trouble or obsolescence (or when the non-user-replaceable battery inevitably fails).

For some strange reason Apple has managed to put retina displays in their laptops before LG or Samsung (who probably manufacture those panels) manage to put them in their own laptops. While other laptop manufacturers are pretty timid about doing new things these days, they are getting faster at following in Apple's footsteps. We'll likely see Samsung or LG putting out their own laptops with retina displays within a few months. At least some of them will have proper screws that you actually own a screwdriver for.

Samsung really has the potential to be an industry leader. They make everything. SSD's, memory, displays, you name it. Some of their efforts (e.g. the Series 9) have actually been innovative in certain small and specific ways. It's frustrating to watch them sit back and let Apple do things "first" with their own parts though. Someone at Samsung is really dropping the ball and I hope they're shown the door soon.

sbmassey• 14 years ago

What "Unix friendly features" has Apple locked away?

Inufu• 14 years ago

I have found that XBMC makes for the ultimate entertainment PC. Simply install Ubuntu, put XBMC in autostart and enjoy. It catalogs all the movies and TV shows you've got on your HDDs and displays them in a stunning UI.

donniezazen• 14 years ago

I do not own any apple products because they are outrageously expensive.

Why do I think I should buy Macbook Air? Because laptop should be that light and thin.

Why I use Linux? It's dead simple. A single command or a simple script can make system management and other tasks so straight forward and no brainier. I have total control on what I want on my system. Of course their is a learning curve but that's the main reason I visit HN.

ChrisLTD• 14 years ago

iOS devices are best in class, or near the top at their price point. Apple laptops and desktops are pricey (although I would argue not outrageously so, especially if you're using them for work), but lower priced alternatives sacrifice a lot in terms of fit & finish.

sliverstorm3• 14 years ago

If you like the Air, keep your eye on the market. intel and AMD are both trying to partner with OEM's to finally get some Air competitors out. I cannot recall the marketing name though.

sciurus4• 14 years ago

There are plenty of thin and light laptops other than the Macbook Air.

http://www.engadget.com/tag/ultrabook/

jamesaguilar2• 14 years ago

Interesting. I love Macs and I have one for work, but for home I use Windows because Macs are so bad for gaming. Way I see it, Windows is close enough to being as good as Macs that it doesn't bother me too much to use it, but to my taste Macs are somewhat superior.

reitzensteinm3• 14 years ago

I don't think you'll be alone. With the retina MacBook Pros, Apple really is throwing down the gauntlet here.

And not just because of their advantage in hardware; Windows is notoriously hard to program for in a resolution independent way, and the first double resolution laptop displays are going to cause early adopters no end of pain. Even if Windows 8 brings APIs to fix it, the long tail of apps are not going to be updated any time soon.

I expect this to be an unusually large and concrete reason for everyday people to choose a Mac laptop for the next few years. Side by side, Macs will look amazing. Looked at a 3GS recently? Eww.

Of course, this is assuming OS X has resolution independence nailed; though I'd be amazed if they shipped this if that wasn't the case.

(This is a repost of my comment from a rumor thread; not much has changed)

josephcooney• 14 years ago

> Windows is notoriously hard to program for in a resolution independent way

Really? Using which API?

beedogs• 14 years ago

Enjoy your $2200 15" notebook.

In contrast, with this announcement, I've probably bought my last Apple product.

ra• 14 years ago

I'd like to watch the video, but using Chrome on Linux I just get the message: "Please install QuickTime for mac/pc".

jacobr• 14 years ago

I wonder what Ubuntu would look like on a retina display.

notatoad2• 14 years ago

Pretty tiny, I bet.

sneak3• 14 years ago

An ugly brown, as usual.

LaSombra• 14 years ago

I don't want a "Retina display", I want a true 1920x1080 on my 15" MBP. Apple is trying to impose that density is the same thing as resolution, which is not. A "Retina display" of 2880x1800 is just a "better" 1440x900. Give me the option to choose between double pixels and real pixels and I'll buy thee.

tcox2• 14 years ago

Presumably you'll have that option? Can't see why not. I'm guessing there'll be an option in the Display control panel.

jonknee5• 14 years ago

Being a non-native resolution, it would look awful.

phamilton5• 14 years ago

http://www.apple.com/macbook-pro/specs/

Supported resolutions: 2880 by 1800 pixels (Retina); scaled resolutions: 1920 by 1200, 1680 by 1050, 1280 by 800, and 1024 by 640 pixels

btgeekboy• 14 years ago

I sort of agree, but with the new screens, one would assume you'll be able to run with a smaller font to make room.

I guess we'll have to see how that works out.

jiggy20112• 14 years ago

What would happen if you ran Windows or Linux on the MBP? What resolution would you get?

RandallBrown• 14 years ago

Windows has had High DPI mode for quite awhile. Not sure if that will be compatible with the new MPB, but it should help. Too bad most windows apps are fairly broken in high DPI mode.

levesque• 14 years ago

Most stuff in Linux looks crappy if you play too much with the DPI setting.

Hopefully the Linux devs will start taking this into consideration.

rorrr3• 14 years ago

You would get whatever resolution your display/graphic card supports.

Terretta• 14 years ago

I'm having the same concern. I use all 1920 x 1200 in my standard workflow. I'm concerned about the lack of a 17" model, as this screen's physical width is just about the minimum that can support two side by side pages at comfortable reading font sizes. Pixel density is high enough already that I'm not persuaded more pixels will make smaller fonts any more comfortable, and 15" simply doesn't approximate two 8.5" x 11" pages side by side no matter what the resolution is. (Put two 8.5" x 11" pages over your 17" MBP screen; note they only hang off the edge by about a half inch.)

Full screen apps with the magic pad swipe between them mitigates this somewhat for apps like Mail, Sublime Text, or Terminal, but 1440 x 900 is a poor choice for dual page word processing.

That said, after development, my second most common activity is photo triage and editing. For this, the 15" retina display could present a far truer representation of what can be expected in the final print.

But I'm concerned about the "less glare" feature. I've also always and only purchased the matte screens. They have no glare, and no false brilliance from the glossy screen. For photo editing for print work, the matte screens have always felt more accurate. I'm curious if they've gone to a single screen surface, based on glossy, but with somewhat less glare. I'm not sure I'd be interested in that.

On the plus side, a MBP 17" only fits in carry on bags that can't quite go in a commuter jet's overhead bin, while the 15" will fit easily in most any commuter jet compatible bag.

That said, the iPad 3 64GB with iPhoto and SnapSeed can ingest and edit a great deal of photos even at today's DSLR resolutions. On recent trips, I carry an iPad 3 plus a Nextodi external portable photo HDD with integrated card reader. I edit one day's worth of photos on the iPad, while archiving the full memory cards on the Nextodi.

DennisP• 14 years ago

17" models seem to be disappearing all over. Lenovo has dropped them from all product lines except the "Essential G." System76 has dropped their 17" model. Since I've been thinking about getting a 17" Linux laptop this is getting a bit annoying.

ScottBurson• 14 years ago

Another 17" lover here. I think when I get one of these new ones -- which I will have to, at some point, I guess -- I'll also get a dental loupe so I can really use the resolution.

(Example: http://www.phillips-safety.com/store/product_info.php?cPath=...)

pervycreeper• 14 years ago

Why would you require that specific resolution?

Steko3• 14 years ago

"Apple is trying to impose that density is the same thing as resolution"

I think you've confused "resolution" with "my preferred resolution". The new MBP has both a higher density and a better resolution then what you're looking for. You may be disappointed but I bet Apple thinks it can make more money by selling 2880x1800 MBPs.

BHSPitMonkey2• 14 years ago

It really depends on how OS X chooses to impose upon how the pixels are used. If the new "retina" desktop is merely a 1440x900 point desktop with much sharper fonts and artwork (much like how the retina iPhones are merely 320x480 point views), then this isn't necessarily desirable to someone who truly wants the higher-resolution workspace.

jcurbo• 14 years ago

I just noticed this on Apple's page: http://www.apple.com/macbook-pro/specs/

"Supported resolutions: 2880 by 1800 pixels (Retina); scaled resolutions: 1920 by 1200, 1680 by 1050, 1280 by 800, and 1024 by 640 pixels"

zyb09• 14 years ago

That's a real flaw, a old 15" MBP with 1680x1050 would practically be a better choice. This is just dumb, that a 2880x1800 display is worse than a 1680x1050 display because of the way the software handles these resolutions. Unless I'm missing something...

alexobenauer• 14 years ago

That's interesting... I didn't realize this until you said it. I currently have the 15" MBP at 1680x1050. Buying the new retina display would be a downgrade in screen real estate, since it would show an equivalent 1440x900. Sure it would be crisper, but when I'm developing on my laptop, it's all about screen real estate.

This is odd.

cpr3• 14 years ago

You'll eventually get better than 1920x1080 on your Retina MBP, because apps will adapt to the HiDPI APIs, and then you can scale all the critical parts (text views, graphics views, etc.) to be as tiny as you like and still get high-quality, and the same settings will work on the old non-Retina display but just look worse.

I.e., the approach they've taken is fully scaleable from current resolutions to high resolutions, but it'll take some cooperation from third-party software.

In the end, you'll be better off.

hack_edu• 14 years ago

Do any employees know whether or not the new MacBooks are available at retail locations today?

edit: Apple Store Berkeley says no.

scorpion032• 14 years ago

Surely available in the downtown SF Apple store.

Exhibit A: http://instagr.am/p/LvfFx3CPKI/

barmstrong• 14 years ago

Palo Alto store says no, and no idea when they will be getting in. You can buy them online though.

Lewisham• 14 years ago

Apple Store Monterey had no idea, but not today. "We'll know more in a couple of days. We might have them by the end of the week."

I ordered online.

untog• 14 years ago

Once you go Air, you never go back. And this year's Air announcement (like last year's) is pretty 'meh', so I'll be keeping with my old faithful 2010 Air for the time being. The retina displays are fantastic, but as a web dev I'm already dreading the merry havoc it's going to wreak with images on web pages.

On a wider note, I feel myself... drifting away from all of this. In previous years I would have been all over WWDC live blogs and so on- this year I'm already fed up with my Twitter stream being filled with it, and am dreading the Hacker News front page being liberally coated with Apple. I am happy to just read the post-game analysis after the fact. Reality Distortion Field Fatigue, perhaps?

sciurus4• 14 years ago

The option of 8GB of RAM is nice, since the RAM isn't upgradable.

rdl8• 14 years ago

2010 Air did t have AES-NI either, which made FileVault slow. 2011 MBA just lacks 8gb; I think I will be sticking with mine since I do my heavy VM work on another machine.

Lack of gigabit Ethernet on the big pro air makes me sad, though.

megablast3• 14 years ago

Bigger flash drives are good as well, I think they may go up to 768gb, or at least 512gb.

bobobojer• 14 years ago

Anyone have any opinions on whether you'll be able to hack in some 8gb memory chips in last year's verison of MBA?

bbgm• 14 years ago

I have a late 2011 Air and it's worth the upgrade from the 2010 Air (which I had before that). I won't be upgrading to the new Air, cause the one I have does very well, but the new 15" MBP is definitely tempting

encoderer2• 14 years ago

Have you seen performance benchmarks for the 2010 air vs just the 2011 (which i own btw)?

Personally, i think the 2011 Air is a great machine and offering 8GB on it now is all that needed to be done to keep it a great machine for another year.

But definitely, certainly, the 2010 to 2011 update was important in terms of performance.

Keyframe2• 14 years ago

I bought Air in January, with 4GB RAM and 265GB SSD. They have upgraded only things that would need an upgrade, machine form factor is perfect (especially if you're on the go nonstop) and battery life extraordinary for that size.

sliverstorm3• 14 years ago

On a wider note, I feel myself... drifting away from all of this.

That happens. In my case, it's the "seen it all before" effect.

It would be exciting if something really noteworthy was happening, but a bump in resolution or a new I/O interface are not groundbreaking changes in computing.

jjcm• 14 years ago

Agreed. The air was one of my best computer purchases I've made. It's far faster than I expected something in that form factor, and it generally handles everything I throw at it. That said, the display in these new pros is very tempting. I do a lot of design and video work, so having more is definitely better in this case. We'll see if that display gets trickled down into the other lines during the next revision.

jiggy20112• 14 years ago

So, what is the effective resolution of the MBP now?

sciurus4• 14 years ago

1440x900, or an optional 1680x1050.

ryanjodonnell• 14 years ago

where do you see the 1680x1050 option?

wmf6• 14 years ago

1440x900, same as the old "low res" screen.

maximilian• 14 years ago

I was going to say this, but I would say its slightly better because the "effective" pixels are sharper -- You could probably run a text editor with a smaller font and still feel comfortable.

Watabou• 14 years ago

The retina display is 2880 x 1800 resolution.

51Cards• 14 years ago

I have a true 1080P on my 13.3" Vaio Z notebook which I run at the full 1920x1080. I would stick with that over this new MB screen. It's all about effective resolution when you are trying to get things done and that hasn't changed on the MB.

phamilton5• 14 years ago

I'm curious about Magsafe2. As a student, knowing that 20% of students on campus (those with Apple computers) use the same charger as me, I find it really easy to borrow a cable for 20 minutes to get charged up for class. I'm guessing Magsafe2 isn't compatible with traditional magsafe.

ropiku• 14 years ago

Update: It's not but they sell a $9.99 adapter "The MagSafe to MagSafe 2 Converter allows you to use the MagSafe connector on your LED Cinema Display, Thunderbolt Display, or MagSafe Power Adapter to charge your MagSafe 2-equipped Mac computer."

It looks and I would guess it would be magsafe 1 compatible. Maybe it has extra features or power to it. Pretty much any MB* can be charged on any power adapter albeit slower (or not at all if heavily using it).

wahnfrieden• 14 years ago

It's thinner than Magsafe1, so no. Time to buy all new power adapters!

alexanderh2• 14 years ago

Nope, you need a "Apple MagSafe to MagSafe 2 Converter"

sycren2• 14 years ago

Im wondering if it charges faster, the keynote only mentions that it is thinner..

booticon• 14 years ago

This converter just came up in the store: http://store.apple.com/us/product/MD504ZM/A?

smackfu• 14 years ago

They're selling an adapter for a very reasonable $10: http://store.apple.com/us/product/MD504

pclark2• 14 years ago

all I want is 3g on laptops

eli2• 14 years ago

So like built-in cell data? My Thinkpad from 5 years ago had that. Doesn't seem like it'd be too hard to find.

dmix• 14 years ago

You can also get USB devices to add 3G support for pretty cheap.

swalsh2• 14 years ago

I'm sure as LTE gets going, you'll see 4g built in. I would bet you could fit 4 antennas in one. Which would give you some amazing throughput in a 4x8 MIMO setup. Of course the interference from the computer might cause a lot of issues?

dangrossman3• 14 years ago

There's no technology problem waiting to be solved. Laptop manufacturers could build in LTE chipsets today if they wanted to. The issue is that no cell carrier wants them to; it would create demand they're not prepared to meet. The current trend is just the opposite -- to lower monthly limits and increase prices for 4G data services. Creating more demand would just lead to cities where there are more people connected than the towers can handle.

dangrossman3• 14 years ago

What would be the point when there's not a single US cell network that offers unlimited 3G data for computers? Or is there someone in California? There's not here. Might as well just tether from your phone since you can only do it a few times a month without hitting your data cap.

agravier• 14 years ago

Well, there are cheap unlimited 3G data plans without restriction on the device here in Singapore, and I guess in other countries too. But I guess Apple's biggest market remains the US, right?

jarek14• 14 years ago

Who said anything about unlimited? 3 or 5 GBs of backup data for when you can't find or can't be bothered to find an open wifi network could still be quite nice. It won't replace your stream-HD-movies-all-day-wireless-N but it doesn't have to.

moe• 14 years ago

I want that too.

In the meantime I got myself this[1] and can highly recommend it. No more fiddling with USB-dongles, you can just leave it in the bag and a single button press gives you a Wifi->3G bridge (for up to 5 clients).

[1] http://www.amazon.com/UNLOCKED-HUAWEI-HSDPA-MOBILE-Velvet/dp...

nextstep• 14 years ago

I can't find any details regarding the existence of an optical drive on the new MacBook Pro. Has it been removed? Also, does anyone know how MagSafe2 differs from MagSafe?

dsl• 14 years ago

We are all watching the same live blogging as you.

Anyone who would know (an Apple employee) isn't going to comment publicly today.

pkamb5• 14 years ago

Optical drive has gone the way of the floppy on the "next generation" MacBook Pro. It's still there on the "old" MacBook Pros that just got a spec bump today.

jemeshsu• 14 years ago

Not so sure about the updated MacBook Pro as the spec sheet does not list a optical drive. So it might also be gone.

cpr3• 14 years ago

MagSafe2 is just thinner, not electrically different.

petedoyle• 14 years ago

I'm really hoping it can drive three external monitors... Looks somewhat promising:

    * Two Thunderbolt[/DisplayPort?] ports
    * One HDMI port
    * A Geforce 650M (capable of driving 4 active displays [1]).

[1] http://www.notebookcheck.net/NVIDIA-GeForce-GT-650M.71887.0....

EDIT: "Up to two external displays" (thanks dsirijus)

r00fus• 14 years ago

If you are hacking or doing office work (and not gaming), you can easily support an additional 1080p monitor over USB2 using DisplayLink tech. I did it in a former life using a 13" MBP and over a Belkin USB2 hub, even with no glitches.

With USB3 now, you could probably run several. I bet you could get 4 HD monitors easy.

dsirijus• 14 years ago

"Up to two external displays."

http://www.apple.com/macbook-pro/specs/

MichaelGG• 14 years ago

1080p @ 32bpps is 8MB/frame. That's 7FPS max, so anything that moves a lot of pixels is totally out of the question.

Even with just Visual Studio and normal office usage, I found it very frustrating using a 1080p screen over USB. Very choppy and annoying.

slig• 14 years ago

Finally they removed the DVD driver.

mtrn• 14 years ago

Yes, I barely used it. The only thing I used the bay for was a secondary 1TB disk alongside with a primary SSD - which makes a good combination for data intensive development. Guess this option is now gone as well ...

aes256• 14 years ago

As someone who appreciated the DVD drive because it could be removed and the space/connector used to install a second 2.5" hard drive, I see the removal of the DVD drive altogether as a negative.

This combined with on-board RAM and on-board SSD storage... are any of the components in these new retina display MacBook Pros replaceable?

soc882• 14 years ago

I guess the “Retina Display” is the admission that they never figured out how to do decent font rendering?

ceejayoz3• 14 years ago

You really think "fonts look better" is the main selling point for the Retina displays?

scott_s2• 14 years ago

Well, it was for me. I held off on the iPad until an iPad 3. After using an iPhone 4, when I picked up an iPad 1 or 2, I saw pixels everywhere. The main thing I use my iPad for is reading. I guessed that would be the case, so I held off on getting one until it had a high-resolution display that could display text without visible pixels.

lbotos• 14 years ago

I wouldn't say the main selling point but It's important. What do we use computers for? Reading and consuming media. Most media isn't "HD" yet but nothing is holding our written word from being rendered better.

streptomycin• 14 years ago

They talk about the retina display making fonts better in the video on the MacBook Pro website: http://www.apple.com/macbook-pro/

scott_s2• 14 years ago

Apple and Microsoft have different philosophies on what is important when rendering fonts: http://www.codinghorror.com/blog/2007/06/font-rendering-resp...

soc882• 14 years ago

Two extremes don't make it right.

_stephan2• 14 years ago

Will you be able to configure different DPI settings per monitor on OSX, or will there be some iOS-like implicit 2x scale on retina displays? Otherwise this MacBook might be somewhat awkward to use with a non-"retina" external monitor...

xbryanx• 14 years ago

Will you still be able to order a MacBook with the matte display? Or does the retina display preclude this?

I hate the glossy screen and was happy to pay extra for matte on my current MacBook.

dochtman• 14 years ago

They're saying they did something to the glass to make it less reflective.

forgetcolor• 14 years ago

that's kind of like saying i did something to my turds to make them less smelly. may be true, but i still don't want to hang out with one.

bitcrusher• 14 years ago

You can, but not with the Retina display. Shame, I am quite in love with my current matte screen.

sciurus4• 14 years ago

I think the comparisons to the Macbook Air are misleading. At least for me, the distinct appeal of the Macbook Air is that it's light; either 2.38 or 2.96 pounds. The new model Macbook Pro may be a great laptop in many ways, but at 4.46 pounds it's not light. I'm going to notice that in my messenger bag to a much greater extent than I would an Air.

pivo• 14 years ago

I'm kind of amazed that the pro is only that much heavier than the air. It feels like it's like it's at least twice as heavy.

pbrumm3• 14 years ago

Hopefully the macbook pro with retina display supports 16gb of ram. Everything else sounds amazing, but being limited to 8gb of ram for another few years is going to hold me back.

rimantas• 14 years ago

It does.

shadesandcolour3• 14 years ago

The 2011 MacBook pros can handle 16 GB of RAM as well. It's not stated in the manual but if you put two 8 GB sticks in there it'll run just fine. I did it last month.

grecy• 14 years ago

The question right now is if the RAM is upgradable or soldered to the board a la the Air...

neilc2• 14 years ago

Per http://www.macrumors.com/2012/06/11/apple-introduces-next-ge... , "up to 16GB of MacBook Air-like non-upgradable 1600MHz RAM."

neilparikh• 14 years ago

On the online apple store, the retina MBP is upgradable to 16GB of ram for $200.

pimentel• 14 years ago

No builtin ethernet? My router at home doesn't allow wireless access to the admin.interface. I like my ethernet from time to time...

phamilton5• 14 years ago

They released a thunderbolt to ethernet adapter.

trotsky• 14 years ago

new thunderbolt -> gigE adapter

tibbon2• 14 years ago

Perhaps I'm the only one, but I'm really waiting and praying for a new Mac Pro system and 30" Retina displays. Its been since 2010 for an update on the Mac Pro. Currently, I can't fathom why anyone would purchase them given the price. But the laptops have never felt capable enough for fulltime use for HD video editing (or 2K or 4K...)

Unless there's a "just one more thing" with these, it seems that the Mac Pro appears more and more dead.

anteater• 14 years ago

That's why you build your own. http://tonymacx86.com/. Twice the power that Apple provides for half the price. Stability is not compromised, just the Apple tower design.

smparkes• 14 years ago

Very minor bump: http://www.theverge.com/2012/6/11/3078180/apple-incrementall...

JackC2• 14 years ago

I know a dude who's done fulltime HD video editing with a MacBook Pro for years. Not 2K or 4K though. Out of curiosity, have you tried editing video with a top-of-the-line MBP and been frustrated? For special effects/render-heavy stuff I know you can never have enough cycles, but for typical editing I'd be surprised to hear that recent laptops cause much of a bottleneck.

tibbon2• 14 years ago

Currently here are my bottlenecks in HD editing on my mid 2011 MBP (which I have a LaCie Firewire 800 raid 1 hooked to).

1- The transcode from h.264 (what my D7000 outputs) to Prores 2- Transitions, overlays and basic comp'ing effects 3- Export from FCP 4- Transcoding from Prores to h.264 again

The editing itself, no, it isn't that bad really anymore. On my old Macbook Pro (2009 model?) it was pretty hard still. Yet, everything surrounding the render is just terrible. I feel that with a 16/32 core Mac Pro, 64GB+ of RAM that that many of these problems would go away. I saw where someone had built a Hackintosh the other day that was 16/32 cores and 128GB RAM... which is very tempting currently.

kitsune_• 14 years ago

The Mac Pro is dead. Many audio and video guys I know have already switched to PC or built / bought a Hackintosh.

batista3• 14 years ago

You probably not know that many pro audio and video guys then...

goatslacker2• 14 years ago

Was anyone else expecting a Macbook Air 15" with Retina display?

its_so_on3• 14 years ago

by removing the hard-drive in lieu of flash and removing the media drive, that's exactly what they've just given you, wouldn't you say? (but with real graphics card so you can actually do something with that beautiful display other than watch HD content stutter. and quad core i7.)

granted its not an air, but - are you sure you want one?

justincormack• 14 years ago

I imagine it needs the memory bandwidth of a real card with dedicated RAM to even just composite windows fast, so the air is not an option. This has the benefit of making a bigger difference between the two lines again too, although the 13 inch looks a weak offering now.

mgkimsal4• 14 years ago

Is the line in port gone? Having line in and headphones out has been great for my use cases, and I was sad to see those go from the 13". Are they gone across the board now?

randomdrake• 14 years ago

The 15" still has the line in. The 13" does not.

mgkimsal4• 14 years ago

thanks - couldn't tell from the picture.

shadesandcolour3• 14 years ago

The line in ports may have been combined with the headphone jack. I thought I remembered reading about that somewhere.

mgkimsal4• 14 years ago

On 13" they were about 2 years ago. Still on 15" and 17" models, and from the other response, it sounds like they still are there.

drivebyacct26• 14 years ago

The Macs are awesome and I can't wait to throw down and replace my MBP, but I'm going to be nauseous from my iOS friends trying to rub iOS features in my face. Congratulations, Android users had that for years, or even a year.

angerman• 14 years ago

I want one of those new shiny MacBook Air Pros! :) Seriously Apple, why not name them like that?

guywithabike• 14 years ago

Because that's confusing as hell.

bangbang• 14 years ago

No Ethernet??

ceejayoz3• 14 years ago

Via a Thunderbolt dongle, apparently.

phn• 14 years ago

The thing is, the ethernet port is too thick. At least on the air it would be impossible, I think the same thing happens here.

bratsche• 14 years ago

I'm curious to know how Mac handles apps moving between a Retina Display Mac and a non-Retina display (Thunderbolt, whatever). Apps need to be updated to handle retina, otherwise they draw double pixels.. so what happens when you have a window that's halfway between a Retina and non-Retina?

My two guesses: 1. The entire window draws as doubled pixels, as if it didn't support Retina at all 2. The window gets two separate paint events, one retina and one non-retina.

Anyone know how this works yet?

manmal• 14 years ago

I'm pretty sure that the drawing system emulates the x2 resolution boost introduced in iOS devices - apps will draw in points, and 1pt = 2px for a retina Macbook. Switching between 1x and 2x drawing should be seamless - one exception being that images would have to be reloaded when going from 1x to 2x.

speleding• 14 years ago

I don't think apps need to be updated, the OS will just send two separate screen redraws to the app. If you put a window half on an 8-bit color screen and half on a 16-bit color screen it works fine too, I don't see why this would be different.

mstange• 14 years ago

1 happens, as long as the bigger part of the window is on the non-Retina display. If the bigger part of the window is on the Retina display, the window only gets a Retina paint event and the non-Retina display shows a downscaled version.

Source: manual testing under 10.7.4 with HiDPI resolutions activated using QuartzDebug

creativityhurts• 14 years ago

The new Macbook Pro landing page is out http://www.apple.com/macbook-pro/

GR8K• 14 years ago

Belkin & Matrox are coming out with Thunderbolt docks:

Belkin http://www.belkin.com/thunderbolt/

Matrox http://www.matrox.com/docking_station/en/ds1/

ajasmin• 14 years ago

It takes a lot of 99¢ app sales to afford one of those new laptops. If you're in the app selling business.

_frog• 14 years ago

3,174 sales to be exact.

electrograv2• 14 years ago

This may be a bit off-topic, but I have to wonder why I see laptop screens with much higher resolution than desktop monitors. It just seems so backwards (in terms of practical use) that as screen size increases, the screen resolution seems to decrease. So now in many ways most desktop rigs are inferior to a 15" laptop as far as productivity goes.

My intuition for the cause, is that the more surface area of the screen, the harder it is to consistently manufacture the panels without defects. But I'm not convinced because I'd imagine such incredibly high resolutions on laptop panels must be pretty demanding technology as well.

I just want 2880x1880 30" monitors for my office :)

jarek14• 14 years ago

I don't think that really holds. I had a cheap 2048x1152 23" monitor in 2009. Excepting very rare 2048x1536 15" laptop displays, it was comparable in pixel count to the previously-top 1920x1200 laptop resolution. The iMacs have had a 2560x1440 27" option since 2009 and I'd expect the next update to go higher. There have been 2560x1440 or similar 30" displays for a while, my boss was using one in early 2009 or so, 2880x1880 or higher can't be far off.

Since you're comparing with "most desktop rigs", you should also remember that most 15" laptops are 1280x800 or 1440x900.

orangecat7• 14 years ago

you should also remember that most 15" laptops are 1280x800 or 1440x900.

Today, most are the appalling 1366x768. I have to give Apple major points for sticking with decent resolutions and 16:10.

socksy• 14 years ago

You want to sell more monitors than your competitors. Do you a) advertise a higher resolution and DPI than them or b) advertise a larger screen? B has been winning out nearly every time, as most consumers will either not care/understand about the DPI, or will understand the resolution but subconsciously think better of the monitor which is larger.

However, with laptops, you can only keep making them so big (and indeed, it seems that the 17″ MacBooks are getting axed). Similar to phones, the only innovation that makes sense in this market is to increase DPI.

ditoa2• 14 years ago

Very nice. Every year I am getting more and more tempted to make the switch from Windows to OS X. I like my iPhone but have always preferred Windows to OS X however I am not very excited with the way Microsoft are taking things with Windows 8.

Also I love the hardware and design. They only company who comes close to Apple's design is Asus in my opinion and even then they are still not quite there.

Does anyone know if the SSD is a standard SATA drive or a custom built in one (i.e. not user upgradable)?

sandipc2• 14 years ago

custom. looks like the RAM is custom too, just like on the Air.

ditoa2• 14 years ago

That is what I suspected. It is a shame as I doubt the built in SSD has the performance of the Intel SSDs :(

nickpresta• 14 years ago

Tech specs for new MPB: http://store.apple.com/us/browse/home/shop_mac/family/macboo...

ori_b• 14 years ago

I really hope that other manufacturers try to copy this soon. I'd kill for a thinkpad (or any other machine that runs Linux nicely, has three buttons and an eraser-stick, and has decent battery life) with a retina display.

oblique63• 14 years ago

Well, once scaled, the retina screen comes to be about the same resolution as that of the W series Thinkpads (1080p), which is probably how you'd be using it until apps start supporting the resolution bump natively anyway. I just ordered a W530 with that display, 2.7ghz i7 quad core, and their most powerful graphics card for under $1,900. It's not a 'Retina' macbook, but still seems like a good deal to me.

dasil0033• 14 years ago

I'm bummed no dual-drive configuration.

munchor• 14 years ago

I've never owned an Apple product before. I'll probably buy this thing, it's amazing, but I won't use OS X, no, no :P

bluthru• 14 years ago

OS X might be the only OS to take advantage of the pixel doubling for a while.

zokier• 14 years ago

I was hoping 2560x1600 13" pro, preferably in a fullsized body (instead of this Airy silliness). Instead just a overprized and oversized Air, and lackluster minimal refresh to real Pros.

darrenkopp2• 14 years ago

Looks like they dropped the 17" MBP and replaced it with the new 15" Retina MBP.

listic3• 14 years ago

Is anyone doing thorough reviews for Apple products? With technical details such as component specs (CPU/SSD/display), real world battery life testing and so on.

Did all Macbooks get Ivy Bridge update or not?

weiran• 14 years ago

Anandtech is good if you want the nitty gritty detail.

stewbrew• 14 years ago

When I got my Thinkpad W500 with a 1920x1280 display four years ago people complained over the Internet about those tiny pixels you can hardly see. It didn't have a funny name though and was just a display.

AncientPC3• 14 years ago

I have a Dell Inspiron 6000 from 2005. It has a WUXGA display (1920x1200) on a 15" screen.

Sadly, screen resolutions have been decreasing and moving towards 16:9 ratio. It's nice to see Apple emphasize the screen again and push competition.

gareim• 14 years ago

With a quad-core CPU and an NVidia 650M and that beast of a screen, will heat be an issue? They've put a lot of powerful components in a relatively small package.

jakeonthemove• 14 years ago

2880x1800 pixels on a 15.4 inch display? That's pretty impressive from a technical stand point, but I can't see how it's going to be useful in real life - I find 1680x1050 to be at the threshold of usability for me.

1600x900 is perfect on a 15.6, and 1920x1080 is the maximum I'd go for on a 17 inch display. Any higher and I'd just connect a bigger external display...

Can anyone give me an idea of what this resolution can actually be useful for?

bryanlarsen• 14 years ago

Just think of it as an extra-sharp 1440x900 resolution screen. All menubars and buttons will be the same physical size on the 2880x1800 mbp and the 1440x900 mbp. Anything that's not zoomable in an application will actually take up more screen real estate on the 2880x1800 mbp than on the 1680x1050 mbp.

blubbix2• 14 years ago

It will work just like the iPad. GUI elements will stay the same size, only at a much higher resolution. Old apps will "see" a 1440x900 display and just look more blurry.

kylebrown3• 14 years ago

The @2x.png thing is already a kind of annoying work-around. Lack of fragmentation is Apple's pridepoint, but I guess this situation is going to get worse before it gets better..

chrischen• 14 years ago

I think they're keeping the size of stuff the same, just the pixel density changes so you get a clearer image.

stan_rogers• 14 years ago

I'm still using a couple of ancient 15.6" Windows laptops (the cool kids all laugh at me) because they have 1920x1080 and 1920x1200 displays -- and I'm in my fifties, finding that my arms get shorter and shorter every year (that is, creeping presbyopia -- combined with myopia -- means that I need different glasses for everything now). Apart from text-based activity (development and such), I do a considerable amount of image manipulation using Photoshop and plugins. Current-model affordable machines tend to have resolutions that are far too small for my day-to-day use, making me choose between UI elements and what I'm working on. 1600x900 is far too restrictive (and yes, I own a machine with that resolution), and I'd really like the option of taking my work with me without carting around a separate monitor (the reason I use laptops in the first place).

ericabiz• 14 years ago

The new ASUS Zenbook Prime runs 1920x1080 in 13": http://www.laptopmag.com/review/laptops/asus_zenbook_prime_u...

I prefer Windows--I'm going to try this out vs. the new Macbook Pro, but I may indeed pick up the ASUS.

sycren2• 14 years ago

I think even if you are not a fan of macs or even this laptop you should still love it. Because of this new release we should expect to see releases from every other competitor by the end of the year to match the same screen resolution. Hopefully this will jumpstart the tv resolution from HD 1080 to something bigger like 4k and once this happens the next gen game consoles will surely follow on with greater amounts of details.

trimbo5• 14 years ago

It looks great. But I think I'm waiting to see how hot this machine gets. It's more compact and still has an 85W power adapter. Because of the higher DPI, it's pushing a lot more pixels even doing menial stuff.

For perspective: my (larger) 2010 MBP 15" w/SSD gets very warm even when not doing anything with the GPU. Compiling in IntelliJ will get it to burn your lap off. When I've tried to use it to play games, it practically melts itself.

jamesaguilar2• 14 years ago

The GT 650 has NVidia's Optimus technology, so it should be OK if you're not doing 3D stuff. That said, with an 1800p display, anything that touches the GPU is going to peg it, and I have no doubt the machine will get quite hot under these circumstances.

trimbo5• 14 years ago

Well, right now my 2010 MBP is driving my cinema display for just reading email and stuff and is baking hot on the bottom. This is the trade-off with this newer machine, I suspect. It packs a ton of power in a smaller space... that just generates a lot of heat.

phaus• 14 years ago

While the new laptops seem very nice, the Mac Pro is a blatant attempt to insult the customer's intelligence. A video card from 2009, seriously? A quick search of newegg.com revealed that this card is so old and obsolete that they don't even sell it anymore. I understand that graphics cards aren't the most important thing in the world to many of Apple's customers, but there is absolutely no reason that they don't at least have a 6990 or even the new 7990 available as an option.

orangecat7• 14 years ago

Apple doesn't want normal customers to even consider the Mac Pro. It exists to milk high-end pro users who are locked into Mac-based ecosystems, and possibly to make the rest of the lineup look less expensive.

staunch2• 14 years ago

Holy crap 2880x1800. I've been buying 15" 1920x1200 laptops for last 10 years because I love resolution, but this is just absurdly awesome.

I only use Linux, but if no one else competes with this LCD I'll buy a Macbook Pro for sure.

alecbenzer• 14 years ago

Can't you throw linux on a mbp?

staunch2• 14 years ago

Sure, just not a fan of the premium price. I'd be willing to pay it though for that pixels-per-inch.

streeter2• 14 years ago

Does anyone know if the new MacBook Air can drive more than one external display?

streeter2• 14 years ago

Got the official word from Apple: nope, only one external display.

Keyframe2• 14 years ago

I made a big switch from Mac based video editing to PC centric one in December last year. I'm kind of glad and sad there are no new Mac Pros. PCs took over big time in our industry (now video, CG was never Macs domain anyhow). Still, Macbook Air and Pros are best laptops there are, regardless of OS on it.

cburgas• 14 years ago

Any information on when they update the iMac line? I really don't need a new laptop but want to switch to MacOS :(

dirkdeman• 14 years ago

Why for heaven's sake is the new macbook pro €2279 when it's only $2199 in the US? It's a beautiful machine, and I'm used to some price differences between the US and Europe (USD = EUR, right, Apple?) but this is outrageous! That's almost 500 dolars more...

jonpacker• 14 years ago

Presumably because the € price includes VAT (which is usually 20%+ in the EU), and the US$ price does not. The real US price would vary by state, and they usually don't show the amount of sales tax on the purchase price. This is a tax thing, not an apple thing.

rorrr3• 14 years ago

$2,199 + 20% = $2,638.8 = 2,111€

Still doesn't explain a higher price.

thom2• 14 years ago

Price-wise, the new retina MBPs seem to stack up pretty well with a ThinkPad W-series, so I don't really see a price issue here. What are people comparing against that they see the price as steep?

pippy• 14 years ago

I get little hints of Apple losing it's finesse. The plugs are on either side of the new MacBooks, a detail that Apple previously didn't miss. And two Thunderbolts? Does anyone here actually have a thunderbolt device?

veemjeem3• 14 years ago

thunderbolt display?

stordoff• 14 years ago

I think they might be trying to use Thunderbolt to replace the Mac Pro. It doesn't fit all use cases, but the new MBP with a Thunderbolt display and external drive array would get pretty close for many users.

mturmon3• 14 years ago

Two thunderbolts so you can use a TB->gig-E or TB-FW800 adapter.

And yes, thunderbolt devices are really, really fast. I have a TB RAID and a TB display on my MBP.

orangecat7• 14 years ago

And two Thunderbolts? Does anyone here actually have a thunderbolt device?

The most common use is probably external monitors, via mini-DisplayPort adapters.

nnethercote• 14 years ago

My MacBook Pro from about 7 years ago has ports on both sides, and the optical drive slot in the front. More recent ones have the ports on the left side and the optical drive on the right. I think Apple just moves them around to match the constraints presented by the components inside the machine.

Having a USB port on each side is nice, IMHO. For example, I have a pair of external speakers where the right speaker connects to the USB port, which is a bit awkward when you only have USB ports on the left side of the laptop.

hanapbuhay• 14 years ago

Any eligible* student planning on purchasing the retina MacBook Pro can get the base model for $1999 USD (a $200 discount) plus a free $100 Apple gift card.

Details here: http://store.apple.com/us/browse/campaigns/back_to_school

robomartin3• 14 years ago

I am platform agnostic.

That said, the one thing that continues to concern me with Apple is the continuation of their closed philosophy. The Mac App Store being the latest incarnation of their quest for total control. I, frankly, don't know what to make of it.

An Apple ecosystem would have no competitors. Like it or not, Microsoft enabled an incredible level of global competition that, ultimately, has been responsible for bringing us the Internet as we know it. Stop and think about what I just said before you disagree. Nearly all of the hardware developments in the last thirty years have come on the backs of the MS platform. You can build inexpensive and powerful servers today because of MS. Same with Linux and other advances. They lit the fire that triggered an incredible evolutionary chain in both consumer and professional computing.

While I understand why Apple does it this way --and they are fully entitled to do so-- I would not want to see a world where their computers are adopted en-masse unless they let go and break the chains.

saturdaysaint3• 14 years ago

Like it or not, Microsoft enabled an incredible level of global competition that, ultimately, has been responsible for bringing us the Internet as we know it

That's pretty rich. Networking was a fundamental feature of many operating systems that predate Microsoft's existence . The first web browser was developed not on Windows, but the precursor to OSX (NextSTEP) and MS played catch up in basic browser features around the web's early years. The vast majority of servers are Linux based.

It's silly to attribute the rise of commodity PC hardware to them as well - it's only their lawsuits that prevented Linux from seeing widespread distribution, which would have enabled just as much innovation.

robomartin3• 14 years ago

Re-read what I wrote and think about it. I knew it would be open for creative interpretations like yours.

I did not attribute the Internet to Microsoft.

What I said is that "Microsoft enabled an incredible level of global competition" and it is this competition that, in turn, allowed the internet to evolve into what we have today.

Yes, networking existed way before MS.

Yes, TBL wrote the first browser on NS.

Yes, MS played catch-up with browsers.

That is not the point.

Linux didn't begin life until 1991. By that time the MS-ecosystem-driven PC evolution was very well under way. Linus Torvalds wrote the initial version of Linux on a '386 based PC. By that time PC clones ruled the world. The evolution had gone through the 8086, 80186 and 80286 processors. Machines cost a fraction of what the original true IBM PC cost, were faster and did a lot more.

None of this would have happened with a closed hardware model. In fact, it did not. Apple was around at the same time, of course. They focused on keeping it all to themselves. MS, in turn, just did the software and let everyone else figure out the hardware. Yes, it was chaotic but it worked.

As the internet begun to heat-up it was Linux running on PC hardware that made it explode. The internet required hardware to grow and explode into every corner of the world. It was the cheap PC hardware that resulted from the evolution of the PC around the MS software that, among other things, enabled the internet to explode like it did. Nobody can even attempt to credit Apple with any of that.

Again, I am not anti-Apple here. Among other things, I develop iOS apps and have a nearly equal number of Windows and MacOS machine in the shop. I will likely buy more Apple hardware in the next few months. No issues there.

My original post was not about bashing Apple, it was to highlight my concern for the increasing closed-everything (not just hardware) approach Apple is taking --which is a fact. In some cases it is almost despotic. As a developer, that concerns me a great deal. As a consumer, I prefer to see competition at all levels. I'd really like to see Apple open-up.

  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Linux
  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Apple_Inc.
  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_personal_computers#The_IBM_PC
  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Web_browser
  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_web_browsers
  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WorldWideWeb
  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mosaic_(web_browser)
  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timeline_of_web_browsers

thelicx• 14 years ago

Too expensive... really too much

mrbill• 14 years ago

I have multiple machines. I'm a UNIX/Linux sysadmin "by trade" since 1995 and use whatever machine / OS combination fits the task at hand best.

At work I have a Core2Duo Mac Mini that runs Windows 7 in a VM for my "work stuff" on a second monitor. At home I have the current Core i5 Mac Mini for my main system, with an AMD Bulldozer-based Windows box for games and things that require Windows. Sure, I prefer *nix, but I'll admin and use whatever gets the bills paid.

When it comes to laptops, I have a 2010 Macbook Air 11", a 2010 Macbook Pro 13", a Thinkpad T61 with Ubuntu, a Lenovo G470 with Win7, and a Thinkpad X120e running Windows 7.

A couple of hours ago, I sold the MBAir and MBPro to friends and ordered the new Core i5 11.6" Air with 128G SSD and 8G RAM. It's not often that I will buy the "current" machine without waiting for a refurb to be available.

hesdeadjim• 14 years ago

I'm at WWDC and after seeing one up close, it delivers on all the hyperbole attached to the launch. It's a truly incredible piece of hardware and the display is as game changing as the original iPhone retina screen was.

epynonymous• 14 years ago

seems the ivy bridge is 20 degrees c hotter than the sandybridge chipset when overclocked:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ivy_Bridge_(microarchitecture)

jaems33• 14 years ago

The more annoying problem is the storage: the lowest end model only holds 256 GB with absolutely no option on checkout to upgrade. And because it's soldered on, one can't simply install an upgrade themselves. So, in order for me to just get double the amount, I have to spend a minimum $600 extra.

orangecat7• 14 years ago

Although with USB3, you can get external storage that's both cheap and fast. Often not convenient for portable use, but great for a desktop replacement.

idleloops3• 14 years ago

Are these OLED displays - is this a first for a laptop? I'm interested in any technology that makes it more comfortable to use the machine. Currently I read most web pages on my Kindle out of desperation.

jonah• 14 years ago

They're LED backlit IPS panels.

idleloops3• 14 years ago

Oh shucks! Nice then, but could be nicer.

SkyMarshal• 14 years ago

No MBP 13" refresh, too bad, I was hoping for that. That size is just the noteook sweet spot for me. More specifically, I'd love to the see the discrete Nvidia 650M GPU in the 13", want to play with CUDA on it.

Back to waiting...

ricardobeat• 14 years ago

Prices here in Brazil were nudged up a little:

    Air 11": R$2699 -> R$3699 (1849 USD)
    MBP 13": R$3599 -> R$3999 (2000 USD)
    MBP Retina: R$9999 (4500 USD - WHAT??)
    MBP Retina maxed out: R$15973 (~8000 USD...)

The prices for the new retina MBPs are outrageous. Tax rate for imports is 60%, and IT companies are eligible for some tax exemptions/reductions, it doesn't make any sense. For R$10k you can fly to the US and buy two retina MBPs. The first one would be exempt from taxes on return.

Apple prices went from ridiculous (buy a Mac or buy a car) 6 years ago to very competitive, until this update - apparently the good days are over.

hrktb• 14 years ago

And bye bye 17inch macbook pro.

I guess it wasn't selling as good as the 15inch, ans is obsoleted by the retina one. But it's funny how there is so little mention of it, even if it was the top of the line for so long, representing the "everything's on board" mentality, just as the mac pro is.

vinothgopi• 14 years ago

Am I the only one who noticed that the lid does not have the shiny words "Macbook Pro" anymore?

jaakl• 14 years ago

In 2012 there is only one producer who is bold enough to come out with new laptop model without touch-screen. And still it is leading edge.

MacBook Pro gets Retina Display; MacBook Air updated with Ivy Bridge

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