Three free meals available daily for any New Yorker

As far as I understand, food prepared by a non-Jew isn't kosher even if the ingredients are. This is not the case for halal food, which may be prepared by non-Muslims.

gshdg4• 6 years ago

Interestingly, kosher food is usually considered acceptable under Halal but not vice-versa; so if they made kosher meals they'd be covering both.

atdrummond2• 6 years ago

A homeless friend of mine is stuck in NYC and his family’s daily meals were (are) provided by this service - despite neither him nor his children being NYC residents. I am sure enough other adults (parents or otherwise) were receiving this food that making such disbursements allowed was mainly about legitimizing the good that was already occurring than accidentally admitting that significant amounts of people were presently being turned without food.

TL;DR: I’m sure NY residents not in the city can get the food if so desired, especially as the system operates on the honor code.

fart_ratty3• 6 years ago

No registration or ID required

So, it sounds like anyone that shows up can get food.

atdrummond2• 6 years ago

I’m interested as to what is offensive about this reply.

ebg13• 6 years ago

But in order to get them you have to congregate. :\

kijin• 6 years ago

Now would be the perfect time to start testing food delivery using drones. Bonus points if the drones can be sprayed with disinfectant after each flight.

blisterpeanuts3• 6 years ago

Drones are probably reasonable enough in a residential neighborhood of single family homes and duplexes, less practical for a large apartment building (unless they can fly right in the window).

adrianN3• 6 years ago

Where do you get millions of drones in short order?

TulliusCicero5• 6 years ago

No, now would be a terrible time to start testing this.

Now would be a good time to ramp up deployment of such a program if it was already consumer-ready, but testing? No.

throwaway555544• 6 years ago

In every group, there's going to be a small percentage of people who are selfish (look at the TP situation). So, how do you keep those people from running out grabbing the supplies each time you drop? You can't possibly drop all the supplies at one time from a drone.

This is a bad time to try drone drops.

tnel775• 6 years ago

And just like that, the number of people needing food plummets. Big yikes.

throwaway555544• 6 years ago

The needy rarely have many choices. In this case, go hungry or get sick or both.

tyingq2• 6 years ago

Assuming you need this, your alternatives would be a food bank, church, or grocery store (for what you could afford, etc).

Given they aren't checking ID's, or taking payment, and that schools tend to have a decent amount of open space, it's probably one of the safer options.

Retric• 6 years ago

It’s pickup only with no dining space on site. Which means people can just stand six feet apart and be reasonably safe.

sizzle• 6 years ago

In practice, it's hard to enforce 6 feet when standing in line and anyone who is sick if spreading viral droplets in your vicinity that are carried by wind. I would be concerned having to stand in that line with potential Covid cases.

TulliusCicero5• 6 years ago

Is that fundamentally different from going to the grocery store?

leetcrew7• 6 years ago

most people don't go to the grocery store every (or multiple times per) day.

allochthon• 6 years ago

Yikes. This vaguely reminds me of Frostpunk. Things must be getting pretty bad in NYC.

onetimemanytime3• 6 years ago

cash in hand and/or packages with essentials is best, people will survive and then some. This will help spread the disease.

jellicle2• 6 years ago

packages with essentials

These are literally boxed meals. Packages...with essentials.

eternalban• 6 years ago

Well, shutting down a modern city can makes things "pretty bad". People have to eat. There are other 'social patterns' that will also manifest in short order. Certainly should not be a surprise to a thinking person.

I live in Brooklyn and very close to a hospital. It may be a "war zone" per NYTimes inside the hospitals (I can not verify that) but outside, including ambulance traffic, it is very quiet. Too quiet.

numlock86• 6 years ago

Can't wait for the pictures of overcrowded meal hubs on social media.

Zenst12• 6 years ago

Well, let's see. Certainly going to happen in one form or another, may have organised spaced-out queue's at the locations but be bottlenecks getting there I do suspect.

But gets down to the people acting responsibly in the end. You can lead a horse to water but you just can't get them to queue in an orderly manner.

cs702• 6 years ago

This is wonderful to see and badly necessary, particularly in a country like the US, where most people do not have ability to cover a $500 surprise bill in normal times: https://www.cbsnews.com/news/most-americans-cant-handle-a-50... -- and we are definitely not in normal times.

Kudos to the NYC administration for putting this together so quickly.

ikeboy4• 6 years ago

The data shows the median net worth is around 100k. I'm very suspicious of claims about what the average American can afford based on surveys. Often they ask people how they would pay for something, and if the answer is "credit cards" they interpret it as that they can't afford it, which is plainly nonsense.

Edit: took a look at your source.

“The survey shows that a very significant minority of American households apparently don’t have the resources to pay for an unexpected expense of around $1,000,” says Stephen Brobeck, executive director of the Consumer Federation of America.

Interesting how this morphed into the claim that a majority of Americans can't afford a $500 expense.

twomoretime• 6 years ago

Any survey driven study is soft science and subject to trivial agenda injection. It's unfortunate that so much survey driven "science" influences policy.

People have learned to be wary I think of nutritional "studies" but it's taking them longer to catch on to the farcical nature of modern psychology. Which really IMO hasn't come that far from psychoanalysis of a few decades ago.

And how could it? All of psychology is based on subjective, non-experimental, non-verifiable, non-reproducable data.

We're watching all of our institutions collapse because it turns out not only are they (and individuals in our society) excessively interdependent, but they're also houses of cards...

dmoy3• 6 years ago

What data shows median net worth around $100k? Does that include a house?

Median household savings discluding a house, at retirement age, is just barely $100k (that is, enough to support retirement income above social security of a wopping ~$5k/year).

oroul• 6 years ago

Can you provide a link to your source on the 100k net worth figure?

JackPoach2• 6 years ago

NYC today, everywhere else in a few days/weeks. Without universal basic income, we are totally f@cked. 30-40% of people are without income and it's either soup kitchens and spike in crime, or UBI.

_curious_3• 6 years ago

"Without universal basic income, we are totally f@cked."

Speak only for yourself.

JCharante• 6 years ago

As in, don't speak for the non-americans or you think this problem isn't going to affect people with savings, because I think that a huge proportion of the population being broke will have consenquences for the rest.

nvahalik3• 6 years ago

Without universal basic income, we are totally f@cked

UBI isn't a savior. UBI still requires that people, you know, pay taxes. If 30-40% of people have no income and are completely dependent upon the government, then you have slavery 2.0 (3.0?) and you will end up creating a worse, classed society than you had before: the ones receiving vs. those who pay for what everyone else gets.

Or the government just prints money and money doesn't mean anything anymore because the government controls what it is worth.

Either way things are not good, but they are not good in a way that just means people starve, it means that the foundation of society is crumbling.

bosie4• 6 years ago

Regarding your first paragraph: At least in a lot of european countries, income tax isn't even the most lucrative tax for the government.

Additionally quite a few working people aren't paying income tax. When you can deduct 13k from your income each year, not many people working for a supermarket are paying income taxes for example. Example, Amazon and VW are creating high revenue in Austria and Germany yet their taxation is laughable. Maybe we shouldn't look that hard at income tax to support UBI

smooth_remmy• 6 years ago

Taxing only the wealthiest americans could easily fund a UBI for everyone else. The middle class will not have to make any sacrifices

gerbal2• 6 years ago

I though slavery was having a job you couldn't quit and weren't paid for? Having no job and guaranteed income seems pretty far from being owned by another human.

_-___________-_2• 6 years ago

So, without tax income where does the UBI come from? Printing money will just lead to inflation, which could defeat the purpose of the UBI.

booleandilemma• 6 years ago

I predict that UBI will come, but without the "U".

The middle class will be taxed more and you'll have a bottom rung getting free money, essentially.

The first two $1,200 checks from the government is the start of this.

programmernews3• 6 years ago

At least if they implement UBI then the need to build the wall on the border will increase.

You cant give away money for free and NOT have strong borders.

zelltech2• 6 years ago

Not true - technically everything is free so it will be fine to keep giving as-is; the combination will help stimulate the economy and improve the lives of all Americans

dragonwriter2• 6 years ago

At least if they implement UBI then the need to build the wall on the border will increase.

No, a border wall will remain an ineffective boondoggle that serves only vanity even with a UBI.

You cant give away money for free and NOT have strong borders.

First, a UBI is defined as lacking means or behavior testing, that doesn't mean that the universe of recipients isn't either just adult citizens or adults who are either citizens or lawful permanent residents. The higher UBI with either of those recipient pools, the less economically attractive illegal immigration is, especially if UBI replaces or reduces (say, by $1/hr for every $2000/yr of UBI) minimum wage, thereby reducing the attractiveness of under the table sub-minimum wage labor.

Second, even if UBI wasn't a tool for stronger borders and did make illegal immigration more attractive, it wouldn't magically change the fact that the border wall isn't a tool for strong borders.

geofft2• 6 years ago

There aren't an infinite amount of non-Americans, and they're not all arriving tomorrow. You can figure out what expected growth is and account for it.

gshdg4• 6 years ago

Or food riots.

JackPoach2• 6 years ago

Wow, I am being downvoted for something so obvious. Totally puzzled.

yalogin• 6 years ago

Wonder how they make the food? It’s a huge operation to undertake. A logistical nightmare. How can they estimate how many people will show up and how much to cook? Kudos to them to do this though.

toomuchtodo4• 6 years ago

Commercial kitchens and rough estimates.

dooglius• 6 years ago

Looking at the meal info, it doesn't appear anything is being cooked so much as assembled (e.g. PB&J)

beerandt4• 6 years ago

It's literally doing what they (school cafeterias) already were doing. It would be harder logistically to have shut it down than doing what they're doing now, having to lay off workers and cancel food contracts.

The cafeterias have an existing capacity and are likely just producing the same amounts they usually do. They're able to give some away because it's not likely that every student shows up everyday (or at all), so there's plenty of excess.

It's a good use of existing resources, but nothing logistically impressive.

nojvek• 6 years ago

Sure, they had the system in place but the fact that so many people are fed is impressive (for free).

tren-hard2• 6 years ago

One of those things I wish could out last this virus.

We'd be so much better off as a society if we could at least keep our people fed.

The comments in here seem a little negative currently but this is great news. Think of all the people in NYC who didn't have access to clean and regular food before the virus.

collyw• 6 years ago

Do you get food banks in the US?

gwbas1c• 6 years ago

Yes, but they usually rely on donations.

Also, a lot of needy children get their primary meals at school.

Frost1x• 6 years ago

We have food banks in the US. Many are under heavy stress right now from what I understand. At least one food bank near me has already expressed needs for donations through local media sources.

Loughla4• 6 years ago

Yes we do, but they are charities, and generally related to religious organizations.

My experience with homelessness and lgbt issues taught me that relying on the charity of others, and not a formal social safety net, will only drive marginalized people further to the margins. Relying on someone else wanting to feel good about themselves to get what you need to survive isn't a good model.

austincheney• 6 years ago

Yes. https://ntfb.org/

Glide• 6 years ago

Yes... https://www.feedingamerica.org/find-your-local-foodbank

TulliusCicero5• 6 years ago

Yes: https://www.feedingamerica.org/find-your-local-foodbank

solotronics• 6 years ago

If you have a stable tech job and are in a good position right now please donate cash to your local food bank. Many people have lost their jobs and schools are closed, lots of kids in lower income areas get most of their food from school meals.

greendave• 6 years ago

Seems like an extremely obvious thing to do, and yet so few places are willing/able. The food kitchens in the bay area are being hammered right now and we're barely 3 weeks into the shutdown. This is not something that private charity can handle.

vsareto2• 6 years ago

Feeding people will always be a matter of profit: https://www.reuters.com/article/us-health-coronavirus-dairy-...

Melting_Harps3• 6 years ago

Feeding people will always be a matter of profit: https://www.reuters.com/article/us-health-coronavirus-dairy-....

I agree, sadly; I have actually been focused on mitigating the losses inherit in the Supply Chain itself, as on a solely Calorie basis we could easily feed the entire population, and is for the most part already at a post-scarcity level despite all the turmoil with Factory Farming and especially State subsidies that distort the commercial aspects of Agriculture (see last paragraph).

This underscores the 'what and why' better than anything I've seen so far and what can lead to Dairy Farmers being asked to dump milk to maintain prices via artificial scarcity:

The dairy industry’s woes signal broader problems in the global food supply chain, according to farmers, agricultural economists and food distributors. The dairy business got hit harder and earlier than other agricultural commodities because the products are highly perishable - milk can’t be frozen, like meat, or stuck in a silo, like grain.

Other food sectors, however, are also seeing disruptions worldwide as travel restrictions are limiting the workforce needed to plant, harvest and distribute fruits and vegetables, and a shortage of refrigerated containers and truck drivers have slowed the shipment of staples such as meat and grains in some places.

Leedle could likely sell his milk if he could get it to market. Dairy products in grocery stores have been in high demand as consumers stay home during the pandemic, though panic buying may be slowing. Earlier this week, a local market told Leedle’s wife she could buy only two dairy products total per shopping trip as retailers nationwide ration many high-demand products.

Dairy cooperatives oversee milk marketing for all of their members and handle shipping logistics. Leedle said he will be paid for the milk he and other farmers are dumping, but the payments for all cooperative members will take a hit from the lost revenues.

Quinner• 6 years ago

We're fortunate to be in a position where the profit incentive has led to a situation where, when there is a disruption in the demand distribution points (restaurants), the biggest problem is that we have too much production.

Without the profit incentive, we have seen time and again, far more severe disruptions to the food supply (USSR, Venezuela, DPRK). Capitalism does not provide for everyone, but it does an excellent job of providing for the vast majority of people. Charity and welfare programs are a good supplement to that, but profit itself is an immensely powerful and useful tool to keep people fed.

DiffEq2• 6 years ago

With more people obese than not in this country, keeping people well fed is not a problem that we have.

toomuchtodo4• 6 years ago

https://www.feedingamerica.org/hunger-in-america/facts

More than 38 million people are living in poverty in America. In 2019, most families living in poverty earn less than $25,750 per year.
More than 37 million people struggle with hunger in the United States, including more than 11 million children.

kingkawn5• 6 years ago

Tone deaf and self-righteous moralizing is absurd in this era

pmiller2• 6 years ago

There's a big difference between "well fed" and "properly fed." "Well fed," to me, usually means "gets enough, or more than enough, to eat." "Properly fed" means "gets the right amount of food, and sufficient quantities of most nutrients."

People don't often die of starvation in the United States. I don't have exact numbers, but if you exclude people who have eating disorders, I'm sure it's insignificant compared to almost every other cause of death. But, malnutrition is certainly a problem, and that problem gets worse when you have people who literally don't know where their next meal is coming from.

geofft2• 6 years ago

With so many billionaires in this country, poverty is not a problem we have. With so many condos by Central Park and mansions overlooking LA, neither city has a homelessness problem.

gshdg4• 6 years ago

Obesity in this country is closely linked to poverty. The foods that people in poverty have access to (because of cost but also because of food deserts) offer excessive calories but poorly balanced nutrition.

That means that people are obese but at the same time essentially starving to death from lack of nutrients. Which causes more food cravings that people are able to attempt to satiate only with more food with poor nutritive value.

jshevek12• 6 years ago

I am a fan of fasting, keto, and IF. But a sudden loss of daily calories for the unprepared can be severely physiologically damaging for many, no matter how much you have stored.

jsonne• 6 years ago

As of 2018 40 million Americans received more than 57 billion dollars in SNAP. It seems like largely the US has been and will continue to keep people fed. Note also that this is just 1 Federal program and doesn't mention the multitude of other state level and city level programs that exist as well as private charities, religious organizations, etc.

Please note I am not saying the system is perfect, shouldn't be expanded, or is beyond criticism in some way. I just think that a more nuanced conversation is warranted if we're going to talk about these sorts of things.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Supplemental_Nutrition_Assista...

Hello71• 6 years ago

and yet according to the USDA, "11.1 percent of households were food insecure at least some time during the year, including 4.3 percent (5.6 million households) that had very low food security".

SolaceQuantum• 6 years ago

Didn't the federal gov't just cut SNAP benefits? The maximum a single person can receive is 6$/day, the average a single person receives is $4/day.

alexgodin• 6 years ago

The average SNAP recipient receives about $4 a day and sees their balance run out after just 17 days.

This is not enough.

mcherm• 6 years ago

The cost of the program is not a very good way of evaluating it. the number of people it feeds and how well it does so would be a much better criterion.

pjc502• 6 years ago

40 million Americans received more than 57 billion dollars in SNAP.

57bn / 40m = $1425

$1425 / 365 = $3.90

While that's doable, it's really not a lot.

bloopernova• 6 years ago

Incorrect, SNAP and other federal/state programs do not go far enough to feed a family. And the poorest families are constantly demonized as some sort of "Welfare Queen" living large on steaks and top shelf liquor.

bobwaycott3• 6 years ago

To piggyback on what siblings point out, focusing on the total expenditure often leads one to different conclusions than focusing on the benefit available per-person per-day. It is much more insightful and meaningful to assess the efficacy of a program like SNAP by recognizing it’s $4 per day, or $1.33 per meal (and assumes an individual only drinks tap water).

More importantly, there’s something wrong when a society is organized and operated in such a way that people have to rely on private charities and religious organizations to be fed. That’s a signal of social failure—especially when food is abundant. I’d suggest a more nuanced conversation should focus on the ways in which offloading a problem to charitable organizations enables people to ignore the problem by means of letting them feel good about themselves for donating time/supplies—which wouldn’t be needed if we ensured the problem didn’t exist in the first place.

nuanceiswron882• 6 years ago

More nuance is exactly the problem.

This isn't a matter of a specific little bit of math inside a bigger ball of math or highly custom machine that needs nuance.

This is a literal effect we have on other humans by letting them go underfed.

Why do we need more nuance in the rules around apportionment in the well walked context of "people got to eat"?

This is just asinine at this point in human society. Especially with a much more educated society that can argue cogently around it sitting on their hands wanking their custom theories, tacitly enabling this.

Society needs to focus on stable support of our shared human needs first, stores of usable foods, basic products, etc.

It does not need to enable everyone's imagined pipe dreams, and emotional castle building, to become literally true. That's romanticized emotional ideology the others don't have to enable. Free speech does not mean you get what you're asking for.

When you're hording toilet paper and flour, but shelves are full of garbage caffeine tricks, sodas, "craft beer", sugar bomb cereal, you know your society has jumped the shark.

impostergc2• 6 years ago

Feeding people was solved in the 20th century, perhaps almost too easily. See correlation between poverty and obesity in the 21st century, vs the 19th century.

Robotbeat2• 6 years ago

Right. Food insecurity need not be a problem for anyone in the 21st Century. It should be like running out of oxygen: nearly impossible because it's essentially free and widely available.

munk-a3• 6 years ago

Obesity is strongly tied in with the fact that the food we're consuming is unhealthy - rather than the fact that it's purely excessive. One of those unhealthy factors is an overabundance of sugar and salt both of which fight satiation fueling the brain to overeat.

We have plenty of food, but we've turned a large portion of it into unhealthy crap.

pje• 6 years ago

https://www.google.com/search?q=how+many+people+died+of+star...

gshdg4• 6 years ago

This is a crucial move. A LOT of kids in particular relied on school breakfasts and lunches. This will make sure they stay fed.

And with a lot of people out of work, unemployment offices backlogged, and a long turnaround time for SNAP eligibility (and many of the newly unemployed ineligible for it anyway), the alternatives would likely involve some combination of mass starvation and food riots that destroy grocery stores.

throwaway894345• 6 years ago

In Chicago the schools are still handing out lunches to parents/kids to come and pick up.

dysfunction• 6 years ago

It was already the case for several weeks in NY that school-age kids could pickup free packaged meals from any school, the change in this announcement is expanding that to include adults.

wobbly_bush• 6 years ago

After the lockdown is lifted, do you think the fast food chains will allow for this to continue? How much of this could potentially eat into their revenues?

numpad0• 6 years ago

Ad freebies usually create net positive impacts

johnchristopher• 6 years ago

Maybe we can make it out of this mess better than how we were when we got in it.

Alex3917• 6 years ago

We'd be so much better off as a society if we could at least keep our people fed.

We need to bring back town farms. There is more than enough land within NYC that's currently being used for literally nothing that could instead be growing free food for anyone who wants it.

econcon2• 6 years ago

I wonder if the food will be delivered home, or you'll have to go to some store.

Going to some store and lining up is very demoralising thing.

If food comes to your home from normal delivery with no different labeling then for paying customers, we could achieve new moral highs.

greenyoda3• 6 years ago

There's no delivery. You have to pick the food up.

According to NYC:

Starting today, 3 free meals will be available for ALL New Yorkers in more than 400 Meal Hubs, Mon-Fri: http://schools.nyc.gov/freemeals.

Since it's being run by the Department of Education, the pickup locations will probably be at public schools (the same as when the program used to be only for school children).

badfrog3• 6 years ago

Going to some store and lining up is very demoralising thing.

Perhaps, but also it might be just annoying enough so that everybody who really needs the food is able to get it, and people who can afford food don't take it. If that works effectively, we're saving a lot of administrative costs and reducing barriers to entry compared to food stamps where you have to convince the government that you need it.

jariel4• 6 years ago

Is this satire?

Not only should people get 'free food' but someone else should have to deliver it to them as well so that they have 'equality'?

11235813213455• 6 years ago

would be better if they could deliver staple food, like rice, fruits/vegetables, rather than transformed products

badfrog3• 6 years ago

A bag of uncooked rice doesn't help somebody who's homeless or has had their gas/electric shut off.

RIMR2• 6 years ago

This crisis is revealing a lot of things we could be doing during normal times.

Releasing unconvicted people from crowded jails while they await trial. Why were they locked up to begin with?

Allowing restaurants to offer sealed alcoholic beverages as take-out or delivery. Why was this not allowed already?

Offering all COVID-19 treatment and testing free of charge. Why not do this with EVERY health problem, like cancer or diabetes?

Allowing large bottles of hand sanitizer in your carry-on when flying. Why were we banning liquids in the first place, if the exception to the rules is a flammable liquid!?

ThomPete• 6 years ago

This is actually the case for new york kids in school allways.

ttul• 6 years ago

A general leftward trend is inevitable after this crisis passes. Neoliberalism is facing its toughest challenge; the nordic socioeconomic model has never looked better.

jariel4• 6 years ago

Nordic countries are pragmatically ethnocentric, mandatory military service, have state Churches and official state religions, popular Monarchies (Sweden's royal family is more popular in Sweden than the UK Monarchs in the UK), and people, in general, are nice but the furthest thing from 'PC' as we understand it. They are economically left-wing, but the culture is very closed.

The very consideration of the 'Nordic Model' is almost absurd because it ignores the other 80% of the situation which is the social fabric that's not part of the political system.

New York has 23% of the population functionally illiterate and there's a perfect correlation between literacy and success and health in every domain. So that would be a really good place to start.

And there are a zillion obviously unfair things in the US that could be fixed.

So much low-hanging fruit before a comparative basis is even needed.

kryogen1c2• 6 years ago

We'd be so much better off as a society if we could at least keep our people fed.

this is not a statement you can make without qualifying. it is either a useless tautology (society would be better if society were better), or an actual argument about policy and procedures (if wealthier people paid more taxes, we could feed poorer people and society would be better).

of course, no one says the second thing when that's what they mean because it is not self-evidently true. the core issue is complex and then the second- and third- order consequences are even more complex. this is to say nothing about which morals you presuppose about what a "better" society would be.

I wish could out last this virus.

I have been wishing the opposite. my greatest fear is that the virus and soon-to-be depression will be used to push through some extreme political policy that will reshape America in a near-uncontrolled way.

JSavageOne2• 6 years ago

If you're going to make a rebuttal, then make a rebuttal. So far you haven't really said anything to refute his statement that society would be better off if everyone was guaranteed 3 meals per day.

risaacs99• 6 years ago

On the other hand, the second and third order consequences to providing a stronger social safety net to people might be highly beneficial.

We can apply creativity to solving the world's problems without resorting to the slippery slope fallacy of the abandonment of capitalism completely.

Not every social experiment is a one-way door that cannot be tweaked, improved or abandoned. We need to be less cynical and be willing to experiment more without so much fear.

unethical_ban• 6 years ago

In all of your discussion, you never actually took a policy position. It's clear the OP is advocating for a public program to ensure no one in NYC/the US goes hungry, and that the government is the responsible party in that obligation.

golergka• 6 years ago

It's good that society is able of achieving that.

It's very, very bad that it's achieved through the mechanism of central government, which uses coercion and a giant monopolic beurocracy apparatus in order to implement that.

erentz• 6 years ago

I agree. It’s not great news in that it shouldn’t have to be this way. We’ve

jacksnipe• 6 years ago

So those of us with severe, non-voluntary dietary restrictions are just SOL huh?

tyingq2• 6 years ago

"Vegetarian and halal options available at all sites"

Doesn't solve every dietary restriction, but that's honestly more than I expected to be available. It seems well thought out.

camhart• 6 years ago

Just because they aren't able to serve your exact needs doesn't mean they shouldn't serve millions of others.

Maybe if you reached out you could encourage them to provide whatever your exact needs are? My guess is it's more than just you in your shoes.

ctdonath• 6 years ago

If you, fully aware, won’t prepare accordingly for special circumstances, why should strangers do it for you?

kingkawn5• 6 years ago

You gotta let each small victory be a victory, not tear everything apart for not being perfect

j45• 6 years ago

Vegetarian meals are some of the most inclusive.

Vegan meals can be a bit more dangerous though with their increased use of hidden nuts, etc.

Junk_Collector2• 6 years ago

I wonder why this is done through the Department of Education and if they will continue such a program when schools are back in session. People normally don't like a bunch of random adults hanging around schools.

_-___________-_2• 6 years ago

My guess is the DoE had a bunch of people without much to do, and a bunch of facilities not being used.

mportela• 6 years ago

They were already doing that for NYC students, so I guess they are simply scaling the operation with the infrastructure and logistics already in place.

Should this program continue after the pandemic, then it would be weird to keep running under DoE.

dmwallin• 6 years ago

Because the Department of Education has a ton of currently unused high capacity kitchens and access to supplies. In addition the DOE runs similar programs, such as a free summer lunch for kids, and so has the organizational know-how to run a program of this scope.

Junk_Collector2• 6 years ago

Right, it all makes sense, I'm just curious about the process and long term scope of the program. The official announcement that I am aware of is pretty spartan.

It also shows the conflict of wanting to keep as many people employed/working as possible while also wanting to keep people quarantined.

throwaway555544• 6 years ago

DoE is uniquely suited to preparing and serving large numbers of meals.

crazygringo3• 6 years ago

Because this is primarily designed for kids who were getting their breakfast and lunch for free at school. Them not having food was one of the top problems cited with closing schools.

So basically you can still get your meals for free at school, only now it's open to everyone.

vxNsr• 6 years ago

School have full service commercial kitchens that are going unused.

Schools don’t have any kids in them so who cares who’s hanging around.

blisterpeanuts3• 6 years ago

The logistics behind this must be formidable. They would need hundreds of food preparers, all of them tested daily for COVID-19 and of course practicing strict hygiene in prep and packaging.

Still it's probably easier to control than thousands of separate restaurants and food markets, which is undoubtedly their thinking: centralize food distribution to minimize risky contact.

This is a sobering reminder of how dependent city dwellers are on a just-in-time food distribution network; most Manhattan apartments don't have a lot of storage space for an extended hunker down, nor room for a garden and chickens.

jellicle2• 6 years ago

NYC had a pre-existing large scale school lunch program (more than lunches, they offered breakfast and after-school food too). It has been repurposed.

Zenst12• 6 years ago

Many things have become " just-in-time", production, so much that depends upon things ticking along and any bump like this, sure does start toppeling many a dominio.

sbuttgereit• 6 years ago

I think over the coming weeks, we're going to see just how much of the "essential" part of the economy depends on the "non-essential" part.

For example, a comment in one of these postings on HN was talking about how the manufacture of essential supplies was continuing and robust (even I've made a similar comment some time ago). But... ok... how much of the logistics capacity, the capacity of hauling those essential products from the factory to the final buyer is being impacted? And it's not just trailer cubic feet availability that's at issue... it's are those containers available in the right place at the right time? Greater cubic feet available for essential products in fewer overall containers is still a potential major problem. I have to think that a fair portion of the common carriers are dependent on a mix of "essential" and "non-essential" goods for their business and that some of these common carriers are marginal even during the "good times". Fewer trucks/trains/drivers/etc, mean that getting a truck scheduled to a loading dock on a timely basis is harder, even if available cubic feet for essential goods has risen. If my speculation holds, manufacture of essential goods will be robust, but there will still be shortages at the stores and for buyers simply because shutting down the non-essential has reduced available containers and the bottleneck has shifted to inventory logistics. I can repeat this sort of thing for many different parts of the economy; I went to get a replacement part for a computer keyboard... the company's website said they were closed under county order as a non-essential business.... yet food producers still need to use their computers to ensure they can monitor available shelf-life, etc.

When we see broad pronouncements from politicians and bureaucrats talking about not shutting down essential businesses, I wonder if they appreciate how interconnected the modern economy is and that it doesn't simply break down into "essential" and "non-essential". Perhaps this sort of thing is why I so distrust those that would embrace economic central planning.

vinniejames• 6 years ago

The menu lists mostly prepackaged prison food, nothing fresh to prepare

observer9873• 6 years ago

If there's any organization that could do this well, it's the NYC public school system.

Now, it would also be great if there was a way for the city to set up a voucher system to support the local restaurants as well, so that they'll be able to survive this crisis.

ping_pong3• 6 years ago

Testing daily is science fiction right now. My assumption is that they check the temperature and that's about it.

b34r• 6 years ago

It’s possible with the 5 minute Abbott machines that are starting to be distributed

m4632• 6 years ago

It's possible just ensuring the food is hot food that is cooked might mitigate problems.

crazygringo3• 6 years ago

It's literally just all (or close to all?) existing public school cafeterias staying open.

Same cafeteria workers as always, same types of menus.

The biggest change in logistics seems to be that all the meals are now to-go, so goodbye trays, hello bags.

fart_ratty3• 6 years ago

Did public schools previously provide 3 meals a day?

koheripbal• 6 years ago

... and hello infection increases as people line up for them.

RIMR2• 6 years ago

I have no idea where you got this idea that being "tested daily for COVID-19" is some sort of requirement for preparing food right now.

Nobody is getting tested for COVID-19 unless they are symptomatic, or they are rich and get to bypass the normal testing process.

More importantly, testing asymptomatic people every day is just a gross waste of tests...

badfrog3• 6 years ago

Also, the risk of getting COVID from food is very low. You're more likely to get it from people near you standing in line.

According to multiple health and safety organizations worldwide, including the CDC, the USDA, and the European Food safety Authority, there is currently no evidence that COVID-19 has spread through food or food packaging. Previous coronavirus epidemics likewise showed no evidence of having been spread through food or packaging

https://www.seriouseats.com/2020/03/food-safety-and-coronavi...

dragonwriter2• 6 years ago

all of them tested daily for COVID-19

That would be nice, but it's absolutely not happening. Even if Cuomo's“screw the rest of the country and give us all the supplies until our peak is past” had gotten a positive response, there wouldn't be sufficient test kits and other resources to collect and process those tests.

It's going to rely on servers not showing symptoms and using PPE and other safety procedures, not daily testing.

stubish• 6 years ago

You could skip the daily tests and stick to normal food preparation hygiene. If food is packaged in standard foil take away containers, it just needs to be heated well enough for long enough to kill the virus (70 deg C, not sure of time). Or cook the food in the container. No salad sorry.

observer9873• 6 years ago

This is a lifeline for workers who have been laid-off with no prospects of getting back to work anytime soon. Unfortunately, this may be the new normal...

observer9873• 6 years ago

Reminiscent of soup kitchens from the Great Depression.

vsareto2• 6 years ago

I'm really interested to see if organized crime would do similar things this time around if they really declare a depression. I don't think they will.

somacore2• 6 years ago

I would love if this were the new normal. Food for anyone, no questions asked? That's an America I'm proud of.

elwell• 6 years ago

This is something that already existed I think.

greenyoda3• 6 years ago

The food pickup program existed for public school students ever since the schools were closed. Now it's being extended to all NYC residents.

smoorman1024• 6 years ago

I would be really interested to no what the cost of this program is. Even if it's above a modest cost I think it's something the city should look into providing going forward. We should consider providing basic services to all our residents no questions asked starting with food and hygiene services. I also think New York could be greatly improved by providing public bathrooms and showers.

zxcvbn4038• 6 years ago

Very awesome, not checking IDs so immigrant friendly. I think this is sorely needed with as many people out of work, especially immigrant families that aren’t getting stimulus checks, unemployment, mortgage moritiums, or any of the other benfits.

ksj2114• 6 years ago

This is a great program, but also it is so so sad that this needs to be provided after 2 weeks of lock down. Really shows inequality in American society

Theodores• 6 years ago

"There are only nine meals between mankind and anarchy"

- New Yorker and investigative journalist Alfred Henry Lewis, some time in 1906.

In 'related searches':

every society is three meals away from chaos

mi5 four meals from anarchy

every society is three meals away from chaos lenin

the veneer of civilization is only nine hot meals deep

there are only nine missed meals between mankind and anarchy

So yeah. Two weeks in.

CydeWeys• 6 years ago

It's really just an extension of the widely-used free lunch program in schools, which was already provided year-round. The only difference now is that adults can partake too; I wonder how many will. I'm not exactly raring to eat public school cafeteria quality food if I can afford alternatives.

ping_pong3• 6 years ago

This is great, but a sobering idea of how bad things really are. This sounds like Great-Depression-like conditions and feels like a "Don't look behind the curtains" moment as to how bad our economy really is for many, if not the majority, of people.

seneca2• 6 years ago

How is responding to a less than once in a lifetime pandemic a condemnation of the economy? The economy is largely shutdown.

1024core2• 6 years ago

San Francisco started this when it closed the school 3 weeks ago. Any adult can walk up and pick up meals for themselves and their kids, no questions asked.

pwaivers• 6 years ago

Do you have a link for this? I see free meal for 18 and under in SF, but not for adults also.

1024core2• 6 years ago

They don't ask for ID or proof of any kind.

https://www.sfusd.edu/services/health-wellness/nutrition-sch...

flyGuyOnTheSly• 6 years ago

So they're using the closed schools with their commercial kitchens to do this. Interesting.

At first I was hoping that they had partnered with restaurants, but this is pretty cool too.

weinzierl• 6 years ago

We have sort of Meal Hubs ("Tafeln") here in Germany and from what I heard, most of them closed because of fear they turn into virus hubs. Some have recruited volunteers that deliver food to the doors but that doesn't help the homeless.

nhlx2• 6 years ago

I wish could be done in South Africa.

londons_explore• 6 years ago

Free food for all sounds more communist than capitalist...

Not necessarily bad, but there are all kinds of flaws with planned economies, and if we slip into one without thinking what we're doing, we might repeat mistakes of history.

billfruit• 6 years ago

How does the logistics of it work out, they operate an industrial scale kitchen is and ships food to various outlets.

If it is prepared seperately at different outlets, then how they ensuring quality and standardization.

May not be distributing MRE / Refugee type rations be easier ?

greenyoda3• 6 years ago

They're using the existing food service facilities in the NYC public schools, which are available since the schools are closed. The only difference is that they're packaging the food for pickup/takeout.

wayanon• 6 years ago

Fantastic and tragic at the same time.

MKais• 6 years ago

This is great. Paris is offering 2 free meals a day to people in need. Delivered at home.

blunte2• 6 years ago

I find it fascinating that it seems so many people are against (sometimes vehemently) against others getting free food and shelter.

There is no excuse for a modern civilization to not ensure that everyone has basic human needs met. Sure, we can argue some details like, "Is Netflix really a basic human need?"... joking aside, we as humans should endeavor to ensure that all people have their Maslow pyramid filled in.

throaway1990• 6 years ago

that's impossible, all 5 levels?

Forget it

thepete2• 6 years ago

I recall that level 5 (self actualization) is something only 2% of people achieve currently.

fragsworth• 6 years ago

I think the fear some people have is that if everyone has free food and shelter, we'll lose a massive portion of the labor force because they would have no need to work.

It is not clear at all to me that it would be objectively good or bad, but some people appear to have picked the other side because they think we'd lose a lot of our nice things.

avianlyric2• 6 years ago

That makes the assumption that people don’t get bored doing nothing, and that peoples only motivation for work is money.

I’ve always felt that’s a very reductive view of humanity. Boiling us down to simple automatons that only seek to eat and reproduce, nothing more. I would hope the vibrancy of human civilisation would be enough to show that isn’t true.

Unfortunately people that seem to have little faith in humanity, alway believe that they, and their peers, are special and that the rest of humanity is a lost cause. That always makes me a little sad.

blunte2• 6 years ago

I wonder what it would be like (in a fantasy scenario) if everyone had their needs provided for at a basic level, and they could choose to spend their time doing whatever they felt passionate or curious about.

For example, some people might learn to play one or more instruments; others might become gardeners; others painters, tinkerers, makers, hackers (as in builders), cooks, and so on. I don't believe most people would just sit on their asses and do nothing. Some people really enjoy business and trade, and they would probably just work on creating some kind of business that they enjoyed (like procuring and selling high quality lamps!... and eventually designing their own).

We know that people tend to work harder at something they care about. So if we all got to work on things we cared about instead of what was available or what paid (or paid best), it's fathomable that society might have a higher and higher quality output.

It's impossible to know since we can't really test it, but I like to imagine that scenario.

hpoe3• 6 years ago

I want to help other people I donate a decent chunk of my paycheck to humanitarian and other charitable efforts. I hate seeing people hungry, I grew up in a difficult situation and I hate seeing children go hungry.

My problem isn't that I am against people getting free food and shelter I am opposed to being forced into charity at the point of gun by the state, and my liberties being eroded by moral busiebodies that fail to understand the very things that led us have a society that even has the capability of eliminating hunger are the very things they are trying to destroy.

Every advancement, every push for "just a little bit more welfare", or "think of the children" has behind it the unspoken assumption that the government can do a better job with my means to help people than I could. This same government with a 13% approval rating and that is universally despised in most everything they try and do.

Every inch of additional power that the government gets is an advancement that is set in stone and can only be rewound with great effort.

So please don't paint me as an amoral monster, I do care, but I also recognize that sometimes emotionally driven responses that are executed without much thought and planning, like California banning plastic bags, can cause a lot more harm than good, especially in the long run.

nexuist2• 6 years ago

This same government with a 13% approval rating and that is universally despised in most everything they try and do.

Because there are many in and out of government that don't want the government to do its job, so that they can point at ineffective government and say "look, a private company [like mine wink wink nudge nudge] could do so much better than that."

Have you noticed that it is only American government (outside of dictatorships) that is highly despised by most of its citizens? Where is this anger from European, Canadian, Asian, South American citizens towards their governments? Could it be that those countries have a functional government that, despite failing in some areas, overall exceeds in providing basic necessities (i.e. healthcare) to its populace?

The idea that government will always fail is itself an unspoken assumption you are making. It doesn't have to be that way. We could have an efficient government if we wanted - the first step is to believe it's possible, like it has been possible in 100+ other countries.

wbronitsky2• 6 years ago

Equating banning plastic bags to feeding the hungry probably makes it harder for someone to not see you as an amoral monster.

And if we do believe you are an amoral monster, which I do not, what does that say about what we believe about people worse than you?

If you are near our best, which you probably are, how else can we hope to help people than by leveraging government? It should be quite clear to everyone that personal donations do not even come close to covering need.

mattkrause2• 6 years ago

"Universally despised in most everything" is nonsense.

Do you really think everybody hates NASA? The National Park system, or your local/state parks)? Libraries and Museums? Weather and tide forecasts (which depend heavily on NOAA)? The NSF and NIH are world-renowned for the scope and quality of research they support. Food, drugs, cars, highways, and airplanes are all relatively safe.

Most of the government stuff is effective enough that people don't even think about it. The big tragedy of the current administration is that it's injected political chaos that characterizes some hot-button issues into the rest.

listic• 6 years ago

What went wrong with California banning plastic bags?

umvi8• 6 years ago

If people are getting free food and shelter during a crisis, it's one thing. But if they are getting it 24/7/365 year after year, it's a red flag that they aren't self-reliant.

The solution is not to pour more money into ensuring their needs are met but to examine why they are not able to sustain themselves. Maybe they have no skills because they dropped out of high school. Maybe they are in and out of prison and can't find a job so they keep turning back to illegal activities to make money. Maybe they are truly have a physical disability and cannot help themselves.

But there are a LOT of people that would benefit from being paid to work and learn some new skills (even if it's janitorial work at government facilities or indexing/archiving work at museums, etc.) vs. a check in the mail. Of course, a check in the mail is much easier to implement than evaluating an individual's circumstances and helping build them up in a way that will make them more self-reliant in the future.

organsnyder3• 6 years ago

The way our welfare system is structured in the United States, maintaining access to food and shelter is a huge amount of work and stress. Developing skills and gaining employment is difficult in the best of times—yet we insist on making it even harder.

avianlyric2• 6 years ago

I don’t think meeting people’s needs and helping them to develop are mutually exclusive.

It’s perfectly fair we say that we should provide everyone with their basic needs as a safety net that prevents people from starving. Then building on top of that to give people the support they need to better themselves and reduce the need to rely on outside support.

Sure some people will abuse the system. But condemning the majority just to punish the minority feels a little petty.

eyegor• 6 years ago

Damn socialists trying to feed the hungry. Next they'll be trying to shelter the poor, or heal the sick. In the richest country on earth, how can the government possibly afford to take care of its own citizens?

jimmaswell• 6 years ago

Misleading title - NYC residents only, or at least just a program inside NYC. Typical hubris from NYC implying the rest of the state (where they get their water from) doesn't exist.

Havoc• 6 years ago

That's a great initiative. Basic "you won't go to bed hungry" removes a major stress factor from people's lives who are down on their luck

astroalex• 6 years ago

Someone has made a nicer map of where you can get meals: https://nycfreemeals.com/

gregsadetsky• 6 years ago

Thanks, Alex. That site/map is by me.

It's a cached / high availability version of the "Meal Location Search" site. As that site was crumbling under traffic (response times > 10s) and did not have a map, I've decided to publish its data to GitHub and redo the site. Above the map, there's a link that opens the map in the Google Maps app on mobile.

The geocoded data is here: https://github.com/gregsadetsky/nyc-free-meals-covid

Ping me for any questions / comments -- gs@gregsadetsky.com

I would love to make this nationwide. Where do we start?

err4nt2• 6 years ago

This will undoubtedly help a lot of people - something worth emulating in other places as well!

DonCopal2• 6 years ago

How are they going to check that you don't go multiple times?

Also, how are you going to prove how many children you have? So a father goes first and says "give me meals for my 5 kids", then a mother goes a bit later and says "meals for my 7 kids, please" and then a mother-in-law if she lives with them can pick up some more.

Footkerchief• 6 years ago

Why would someone go multiple times? Because they're still hungry? To resell it to someone who... can also get free food?

DonCopal2• 6 years ago

To stock upon food to have available after the pandemic. Over many days you could amass quite a lot.

thekevan• 6 years ago

Dammit, New York City is not all of New York! A "New Yorker" is anyone who lives in the state, despite the claims that NYC lays on it.

I'm a New Yorker as New York is the state a live and a 7 hour drive from NYC. Not that I was expecting the meals for myself, but the title would lead me to believe people in my community could be helped.

identity0• 6 years ago

You should be able to tell the difference between a New Yorker living in NYC and a New Yorker living in NY state using the context. How do you expect 3 meals to be given to anyone living in NY state? Will they ship the meals using the postal service? Or is there a network of people giving out free food in every little town in the state? Neither one is realistic.

Also, the website is literally "nyc.gov".

pgt• 6 years ago

Wow, this is amazing.

rodneyg_• 6 years ago

Great to see.

205guy• 6 years ago

This reminds me of the government run Amma Canteens in parts of India. Interestingly, they are not free but very low cost: 5 rupees or $0.07 for a plate of curry. Apparently this is 20-25% of the cost of equivalent food from a private vendor.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amma_Unavagam

https://www.thebetterindia.com/79947/low-cost-canteens-amma-...

Three free meals available daily for any New Yorker

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