I spend £8,500 a year to live on a train

https://metro.co.uk/2024/03/03/spend-8-500-a-year-live-a-train-20388001/

by surprisetalk • 2 years ago

415 512 2 years ago

metro.co.uk

Gasp0de• 2 years ago

So he's been sleeping in an uncomfortable plastic chair with the lights on for the past year. The things you can do while you're still 17.

hashtag-til• 2 years ago

But hey... all that for "just" 8500 GBP! /s

NeoTar3• 2 years ago

There are some sleeper trains still in Germany - although you need to pay a supplement on top of the annual train-ticket to use them. It would limit you quite heavily to certain transport coridors though.

sva_2• 2 years ago

Here's a handy map for night trains

https://nachtzugkarte.de/

Freak_NL• 2 years ago

As mentioned elsewhere: none of these are free with the BahnCard 100, and most are fully booked quite a while in advance. He sleeps in regular night trains on the floor or on some seats, not in bunk or bed on sleeper trains.

seszett• 2 years ago

I don't know if you're British since this seems to echo the weird comments at the beginning of the article, dissing trains for apparently no particular reason.

But no, he's likely been sleeping in beds since he's first class in night trains, in 3-bed compartments that generally have showers as far as I know. The lights can obviously be turned off.

NeoTar3• 2 years ago

From what I can see it just says he sleeps on the 'night trains' which are any trains that operate overnight.

If you restricted yourself to sleepers, there is quite a broad network across Germany, but still not comprehensive (https://assets.static-bahn.de/dam/jcr:5e469db8-ee74-46b0-a27...)

gbin• 2 years ago

He mentioned night trains and how it is important to catch one at the end of the day so I imagine he is sleeping in bunk beds at least.

eginhard• 2 years ago

Sleeper trains need a supplement and are often booked out in advance, so he sleeps on the night ICE trains (https://leben-im-zug.de/howto-nachtreise-im-ice/). These are regular trains with standard seating only, all lights on and announcements for the (frequent) stops at normal volume. He mentions that he sleeps on an air mattress on the floor.

dave333• 2 years ago

He has a blog post about sleeping on night trains. He doesn't pay extra for a couchette or compartment, he sleeps in a normal compartment laying down over 3 seats or on a wide luggage rack with an air mattress.

https://leben-im-zug.de/howto-nachtreise-im-ice/

defrost• 2 years ago

At least you got his age correct.

    Lasse travels 600 miles a day throughout Germany aboard Deutsche Bahn trains. He travels first class, sleeps on night trains, has breakfast in DB lounges and takes showers in public swimming pools and leisure centres, all using his unlimited annual railcard.

    ‘I’ve been living on the train as a digital nomad for a year and a half now,’ Lasse told Business Insider recently.

Daviey3• 2 years ago

Compared to the UK where a standard-class rail season ticket for me to get to London (including underground), at £8,272 p/y.. but for that, I also have the luxury of either standing in an overcrowded carriage, or if I am super lucky I get to sit in a seat that smells of urine.

ben_w4• 2 years ago

If you're just commuting like a normal person, there's also the Deutschlandticket, all* public transport for €49/month.

* including ferries, busses, underground, but also has exceptions that don't matter for normal commuting such as "no intercity express" and "a seat isn't guaranteed".

k1ck4ss3• 2 years ago

// all* public transport for €49/month.

not true. ICE trains for example (see pic in article) are not part of the deal.

sva_2• 2 years ago

You need some thick skin spending so much time in regional trains. It has become so bad in crowded areas that I'm always super happy once it is over. Nevermind delays, trains being canceled, or standing in freezing temperatures at some random trainstop because the train broke down.

Prcmaker• 2 years ago

Damn, 49euro/month seems downright reasonable. I used to pay more, a decade ago, for a student ticket in Australia.

pera2• 2 years ago

I never understood why trains are so expensive in England: when I lived in Bristol I liked to spend time in Bath, it's just a ~10 minutes ride but it costed 10 pounds each way if I remember correctly... but at least you could bring your bike for free :p

philipwhiuk• 2 years ago

Simple, they're run by European train operators to subsidise their national networks.

mytailorisrich3• 2 years ago

Because the government decided to stop subsidising the railways.

Everywhere you see very cheap train fares it's because they are subsidised.

Mvandenbergh• 2 years ago

There's a policy decision to cover as much as possible of the operating costs of the network from fares rather than government funding. The operating costs of UK trains per passenger-km is actually pretty competitive to European comparators but many countries fund a large part of the operating costs of their train networks from general taxation.

secretsatan• 2 years ago

I'm so disappointed every time I go back there, and the bloody tickets now, ffs, it shouldn't be like air travel, the whole thing was setup by someone who's never used public transport.

arethuza2• 2 years ago

My commute into Edinburgh is about 35 mins each way by train and it's £9.60 for a return (reduced for a bit because of a subsidy by the Scottish Government) normal price is about £15.00.

petercooper• 2 years ago

Public transport in the UK is trapped in a vicious cycle. The system is poor, so people buy cars, which means fewer people use the system, which means less investment, which means the system gets even worse, so more people buy cars. Despite all its ills, driving is, for enough people, a more pleasant experience than tackling strikes, standing on a train for two hours, or being unable to travel at certain times at all.

I have to go on a cross country journey this Sunday which would suit the use of the train, except there are none at all on my section of the main line early in the morning, so I shall drive all the way into London. The data may make it look as if no-one needs or wants to use the train early on a Sunday, except we might, if we had the option.

jen203• 2 years ago

Indeed, Bath to Oldfield Park was (is?) the most expensive train journey on a per-mile basis possible in the UK.

sambeau• 2 years ago

The British Rail system is so ridiculously over-complicated, my only conclusion is that it is deliberately designed to add as many layers of profit and obfuscation as possible.

For instance, Southern Railway is owned by Govia Thameslink Railway, which is part of Govia which also operates Gatwick Express, Great Northern and Thameslink services.

However, Govia is a partnership between the Go-Ahead Group and Keolis.

Keolis is a French transportation company owned by SNCF, the French national railway, and CDPQ (a crown company of Canada).

Go-Ahead is owned by Globalvia, a Spanish multinational transport infrastructure company, and Kinetic Group (formerly known as AATS Group) which is an Australian-based multinational bus company.

Globalvia are owned by OPTrust, one of Canada's largest pension funds; PFZW, the second-largest pension fund in the Netherlands; and USS, a large UK Pension scheme.

Kinetic Group are also owned by OPTrust, but also by Foresight Group Holdings plc a British private equity and venture capital business, supposedly focused on clean energy generation and associated infrastructure (*cough* Go-Ahead spends £100 million a year on Diesel *cough*).

Now, try to imagine how many small subsidiaries those companies have where transfer-pricing can occur and how many layers of profit are being extracted.

France's SNCF trains are run by SNCF (owned by the French Government) who also do all the track and maintenance.

Germany's Deutsche Bahn (owned by the German Government) runs Germany's trains.

Deutsche Bahn also own Arriva and were nearly banned by the UK government for how badly they ran the trains in the north of England (spoiler: they weren't).

Avanti West Coast are part owned by Trenitalia, who are mostly owned by the Italian Government. Trenitalia also owns c2c who run the London, Tilbury and Southend franchise.

The northern railways were run by a succession of similarly named companies before being returned to the UK Government as operator of fast resort.

The whole thing is a tangled mess of the worst kind of vampire capitalism: sucking up subsidies, bleeding companies dry by overloading them with debt, providing terrible service, then handing the drained husk back to the government once they've bled them to death.

I've concluded that the private companies that replaced the UK publicly owned companies are run to be a front for borrowing money and sucking up subsidies to pay to shareholders. The train companies are no better than the water companies, though they seem to be better at obfuscating what they are doing.

It's the same formula over and over again: you borrow; pay as much of it as you can out to shareholders; run a minimal service to bring in just enough money to pay the debt payments; invest the minimum to allow you to keep operating and if possible, you do it through transfer pricing with other companies in the parent companies' structure. When your creditors eventually catch up with you, you go cap in hand to the government looking for a bailout and if that fails, you hand the franchise back before forming a new company to bid again.

Southern Water, for instance, uses 1/3 each bill to pay debt payments. Even Network Rail, who are owned by the British Government, are paying 1/3 of their income to service their debts.

This is very similar to the "hollowed-out firms" of the UK who distribute more to shareholders than they generate in net income—1/5 of FTSE 350 paid out on average 178% of their net earnings after tax in 2010-1019.

It's all a con and we are chumps.

Further reading

This unfathomable financial overview of the rail system in England:

https://www.nao.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/2021/04/A-financia...

This summary of who owns the British Railways:

https://weownit.org.uk/who-owns-our/railways

This article about water profits:

https://www.theguardian.com/environment/ng-interactive/2023/...

Hollowed-out firms:

https://www.sheffield.ac.uk/sites/default/files/2021-02/Tran...

gandalfian• 2 years ago

Given passenger numbers increasing in the last couple of decades have given trains huge economies scale reducing their costs and yet fares go up, public subsides go up and train companies bust. The only answer I can think of is UK trains are expensive because we are really bad at running them.

rjh29• 2 years ago

The Bristol to Bath journey is the UK's most expensive ticket by £/km. (Although it's £10 for a return if both trips are on the same day)

waihtis2• 2 years ago

Sounds expensive, are you coming from afar? A few years ago a monthly ticket within the London zones 1-6 (or perhaps it was 1-4) was only 150 pounds per month.

Daviey3• 2 years ago

Certainly outside London - shortest journey time is 1h9m, 3rd stop.

netsharc• 2 years ago

Germany has rail "discount cards", including for 100%, first class for 7714 euro/year(1)

Tbh I can't imagine it to be relaxing being cooped in your seat the whole day, with people around you. (1) https://int.bahn.de/en/bahnbusiness/offers/businesscards/bah...

flohofwoe18• 2 years ago

In the 1st class it's probably fine because it's mostly empty. 2nd class on the other hand... (and I bet that's the reason he's paying for 1st class ticket, he could save 3200 Euros if he bought a Bahncard 100 2nd class instead: https://www.bahn.de/angebot/bahncard/bahncard100-2-klasse).

blibble2• 2 years ago

you could do this with 14 day 1st class all line rovers for a cool £36k/year

martinald3• 2 years ago

After spending a lot of time in Europe, the grass definitely isn't greener.

Trains in France are not vastly cheaper than the UK, but the service pattern is awful outside the very main routes. Often huge gaps in service for parts of the day and non-clockface timetabling. Seems to be very poor utilisation of rolling stock, with a lot of the stations having trains sitting for hours doing nothing (which should really be operated more intensely to give a better service pattern).

DB has horrendous reliability problems, basically the entire network gets something similar to TPE on time performance (the worst performing TOC in the UK). ICE/IC trains are also not particularly cheap for on the day travel.

Spain's high speed lines are excellent and very cheap. But outside that the network is incredibly limited and slow, so much so that buses will almost always beat the train in journey time.

Netherlands is good, affordable, frequent services and reliable. I think NL is the only country I've been to where the system is noticeably better than the UK across a lot of dimensions.

unkeen• 2 years ago

The UK is part of Europe, too.

flohofwoe18• 2 years ago

DB has horrendous reliability problems

As a regular train traveller in Germany, it averages out. It's almost exclusively the intercity connections which are delayed, but those usually run on an hourly clock. It's actually not that uncommon that I can save half an hour of travel time because I can catch a delayed ICE from the previous time slot instead of waiting 45 minutes for the next train ;)

aredox2• 2 years ago

France doesn't get clockface timetabling because the topology of the network doesn't allow it - to mamy chokepoints.

(Of course when I say doesn't allow it, I mean they could, but it would be very impractical and require major tradeoffs.)

ethbr13• 2 years ago

I took a French TGV (the high speed one) a few times last year, and it was still pretty nice. Tickets were quite reasonably priced too.

brnt3• 2 years ago

Netherlands

You cannot possible rate the Netherlands good on comfort. It's cattle class, even on 'long' (for Dutch standards) haul routes. They _just_ started to operate carriages with power sockets! I rode better trains in Poland 10 years ago than in NL.

I take el cheapo French TGV (Ouigo) over any Dutch rolling stock any day.

kragen4• 2 years ago

does 'season' mean '3 months' or 'year'

i'm not from the uk

Daviey3• 2 years ago

Sorry, I wasn't clear. It was a year.

alexfoo• 2 years ago

The UK has a concept of a BritRail pass for people from outside the UK. It's currently £568 for a month long pass.

That would be £6816 for a year, although (again) "You can use a BritRail Pass if you’re not a UK citizen and have not lived in the UK for the last six months or more.". I guess you'd have to go home before the end of the 6th consecutive month of using the passes otherwise you'd disqualify yourself.

https://www.thetrainline.com/trains/rail-passes/britrail-pas...

The All-Line-Rover would be the version for anyone who does live in the UK: http://www.railrover.org/pages/all-line.html and it is much more expensive.

01acheru8• 2 years ago

All fine and good, I hope he likes it but €10k is a lot of money to live more or less like a beggar.

With €10k/y you can afford a house+food+bills in most of Europe and in many places it is way cheaper than that.

So... yeah, I find it incredibly stupid.

alt2272• 2 years ago

10k Euro per year is what, 800 Euro per month?

Im in the UK so I work in pounds. 800 Euro = £684.29

I guarantee you that you cannot get house, bills, and food for this amount per month.

I actually think its a pretty smart and cheap way to live if you are young and can handle the requirements.

Ekaros3• 2 years ago

I would argue that you probably can, but not anywhere one would actually want to live in or where there is any sort of opportunities. For Finland that level means living in even poorer than average conditions in essentially dead areas.

dagw4• 2 years ago

I guarantee you that you cannot get house, bills, and food for this amount per month.

That is basically the minimum state pension, which some people do live on, but it is a pretty miserable existence.

01acheru8• 2 years ago

I said most of Europe, not all of Europe and the UK is known for being one of the most expensive countries in Europe. Same for Scandinavia, Belgium, Netherlands and Denmark.

But there are like 20 other countries in Europe where it is totally possible. Don't judge everything based only on you backyard.

swarnie• 2 years ago

£680 is about what i paid for a room in a HMO 20 miles outside the M25 a decade ago.

Providing German healthcare can keep up with all the antibiotics he'll inevitably need it sounds like a good deal.

solumunus• 2 years ago

It's not that much cheaper and you also need to factor in the fact that realistically you can't even cook your own food. There are hidden costs.

SuperNinKenDo• 2 years ago

10k covers all that in "most of Europe"? I'm more than a little skeptical of that claim without some expansion, and also a little curious if what you're saying is true.

01acheru8• 2 years ago

It absolutely is in all of southern Europe except the center of some large cities, same for eastern Europe, rural France and Germany, etc.

Moldoteck• 2 years ago

imo it depends. It is possible to live with this money in most eastern&southern europe. In western/north it's harder, idk about prices but I suppose in smaller cities/bigger villages where demand is lower it should be doable too

ffgjgf1• 2 years ago

€10k/y you can afford a house+food+bills in most of Europe

I don’t see how that can be true if you want to live alone. Maybe in some of the poorer countries outside the EU.

01acheru8• 2 years ago

I'm from Italy and lived alone in Greece, Spain and Portugal so I know it is surely possible. And lived in cities not in the middle of nowhere.

jahnu2• 2 years ago

You could do it here in Vienna. Would be basic but not terrible at all.

ben_w4• 2 years ago

Bulgaria's GDP per capita is €13,305/year (€1108.75/month), and the average net salary is €10,440/year (€870/month), so it's definitely possible if you're the kind of person who is willing to be arbitrarily ridiculous[0] with this kind of thing.

[0] For one thing, сигурно ще трябва да научиш български, which doesn't sound like a great use of time.

redeeman2• 2 years ago

could be done in denmark

jahnu2• 2 years ago

His motivation isn't primarily about saving money but about experiencing lots of places and things.

soco2• 2 years ago

If you have to work too - which he does - not sure how much time is left to experience things, between catching trains and finding showers and switching lounges for food, and working. It is for sure a doable life but I wouldn't romanticize much its quality.

avianlyric• 2 years ago

How is this any different to someone choosing to go backpacking for a year? Or do also consider that to be incredibly stupid?

It’s pretty clear from the article he’s not doing this to save money, he’s doing because he loves travelling on trains and sees it as an opportunity for exploration and adventure. There’s nothing stupid about being curious, and brave enough to indulge that curiosity.

01acheru8• 2 years ago

C'mon there is nothing brave or adventurous about it, it is just first world fancy. I'm happy he enjoys it but end of story let's not make this something special, it is not.

Mashimo3• 2 years ago

I would not do it.

But he is young and everyday another place. Try going skiing and visiting North See multiple times per year AND have a place to live.

_joel• 2 years ago

£800 a month in the UK wouldn't clear the vast majority of peoples' rent, let alone bills and food on top of that.

coolThingsFirst3• 2 years ago

No, you really really can't afford a house with 10K euros/year anywhere in europe even eastern europe. I live in EE, rent a 30m^2 studio, costs around 3K a year (just rent + utilities).

I live in one of the cheapest countries in EE.

01acheru8• 2 years ago

So... you afford a house for 3k/y and say that one cannot afford one for 10k/y? I'm missing something about your point. For 10k/y you can live in most of Europe, of course not the center of Paris or Munich or Amsterdam or whatever but there is a lot of Europe outside the center of large cities.

shinryuu• 2 years ago

10k euro / year will give a small apartment in a large city in Germany if that.

EVa5I7bHFq9mnYK• 2 years ago

But you can't tik tok about living in a regular house and paying regular bills. And tik tok is probably where 8500/year comes from ...

wouldbecouldbe• 2 years ago

Seems to be cheaper 7,714 euros : https://www.bahn.de/angebot/bahncard/bahncard100-1-klasse

NeoTar3• 2 years ago

If he's paying for sleeper trains, that's a supplement on top of the Bahncard 100.

patall2• 2 years ago

He got that. 10k is everything he spent in a year. I.e money spent for showering somewhere, extra food beyond lounges, and the interrail ticket when he travelled europe for some time.

raphman• 2 years ago

more information:

- Lasse's blog (in German): https://leben-im-zug.de/

- r/de thread (in German): https://www.reddit.com/r/de/comments/1b4syao/dieser_17j%C3%A...

andrewstuart• 2 years ago

I’m not telling my son about this or he’ll do it.

op00to3• 2 years ago

This is awesome. I love trains, the German trains more so. Wish I could go back in time and do this!

rrr_oh_man• 2 years ago

Why not now?

igetspam• 2 years ago

This is something you could do at 17 that you can't at 30+, with a partner and a kid. If full remote had been an option for me at 17, I'd have likely ended up a lifetime nomad. This is that.

op00to3• 2 years ago

I have two small children I am responsible for. The children attend school. As the responsible person, my first priority is to ensure my children are safe, well fed, happy, and ready to attend school. I have a spouse I love, and I would not want to simply drop my responsibilities onto my spouse.

I am a W2 employee, and not able to move to another country to work without getting approval and incurring unknown tax liabilities.

My employer requires I do most of my work in a secure location. I am unable to have conversations with my customers in public places, and I talk with my customers constantly.

Also, I'm fucking old, and I couldn't stand sleeping sitting in a chair when I was 18. I still can't now, unless it's my big comfy lay-z-boy.

Mashimo3• 2 years ago

He seems happy :D

Ekaros3• 2 years ago

Not lifestyle for me, but it is likely not actually that different from possible rents in any bigger cities. So it might work for year or two. And after that, just get a real place.

rob742• 2 years ago

You probably have to add to that the cost of eating only at restaurants (either on board or at or around train stations) > 90% of the time. And I wonder how he gets his clothes washed (and dried). Laundromat? Stop by his parents' place? Maybe I should read the blog...

dagw4• 2 years ago

the cost of eating only at restaurants

The article says he often eats (for free) at the 1st class lounges at the train stations

RLN• 2 years ago

This is less than half of my rent in London. That's not including gas and electric bills, as well as council tax! I do enjoy having a kitchen though.

"technically has no fixed abode" I think here probably actually means he's registered at his parents house. This would likely be a lot more difficult if you were truly homeless.

smeej• 2 years ago

He's only 17 years old, too, so it's not as though being registered at his parents' house would be unusual.

coldtea9• 2 years ago

This is less than half of my rent in London.

For exchange of no fixed location, and just a single tiny sleep room, though.

walteweiss3• 2 years ago

Sounds really cool! But I have just one question, why not stay for a couple of days in a new place to explore? Maybe he is, but from the article I’ve got an impression he’s on the move every single day. Doesn’t make too much sense, as when you arrive somewhere you have just one day. For me, it’s always not enough. I’m the opposite of that and prefer to live months in a new place, before moving to the next one.

patall2• 2 years ago

Because than you do not pay 10k per year anymore (as hostels cost extra, compared to trains in his case). Also, in a year, you can stop multiple times in many places. Also, apparently, he also travelled around Europe with interrail, during which he stayed in hostels.

dagw4• 2 years ago

Staying a couple of days at each place would mean hotels/hostels which would greatly increase the total cost of the endeavour. Anyway you can just return to any city at any time, so it probably isn't as important to explore the whole place the first time you visit.

corobo4• 2 years ago

I love trains as much as the next nerd but that's a heck of a commitment haha

I think if I wanted to do the digital nomad thing I'd have to cheat on the nomad bit a little and have an anchor flat somewhere.. where else would I keep the NAS?!

As it stands my lil studio flat is 300/yr cheaper with all bills inc and has a coffee machine built into the (admittedly communal, but massive) kitchen. Plenty of caffeine, plenty of legroom!

If nothing else I'm sure we'd agree on remote working being amazing for finding the exact environment that suits you :)

fastball3• 2 years ago

digital nomad
NAS

I think that is cheating on the nomad thing a lot a bit.

xboxnolifes2• 2 years ago

No more than using cloud services.

marcosdumay• 2 years ago

where else would I keep the NAS?!

In a colocation?

I mean, I guess I get what you are trying to say, by the NAS is the least compelling reason to keep an address somewhere.

corobo4• 2 years ago

Well yeah I was making a little bit of a joke there. It's also a handy place to keep the rest of my stuff, receive letters, use as an address for banks, sleep in known comfort, all the good stuff that comes with having a fixed abode

If it was the only thing stopping me doing the nomad thing I'd set it up at a friend's house (with payment in terabytes of storage) or aye colo it

asynchronous• 2 years ago

Where do you find a flat that cheap? Genuine question, housing in the US is borked currently.

corobo4• 2 years ago

A small town (~70k pop) in the middle of England. Pre-covid the pay in local IT was quite a hindrance (£25k/yr is pretty much the average locally) but it's a great place to be now that remote work is a bit more normalised :)

Plenty of trails to walk or cycle, fields everywhere to shortcut through, decent train and motorway connections to the major cities on the rare occasion I do need to be on-site.

There's even a castle to explore within walking distance :)

shankr• 2 years ago

Wherever the pay is proportionally lower. If people are making 1500 bucks then charging them 2000 won't work.

kragen4• 2 years ago

a colo will host your nas in a virtual machine for €5 a month or in a physical machine for €30 a month. this includes the machine and internet connection. i think you'll have a hard time finding a studio flat in europe for under €150 a month

moooo997• 2 years ago

They put his yearly cost at ~9900€ which comes out to ~830€/mo. So 300€/mo cheaper would come out at around 530€/mo. At that price you could get a studio apartment in many cities or at least afford to live with 1-2 roommates.

ballenf• 2 years ago

Kind of ironic that the train is a colo for people. A mobile colo.

walteweiss3• 2 years ago

Well, if you have parents (he definitely has them at 17) or other relatives, you can ask them to host your hardware for some thank you payment (can be just the benefit of having PiHole for free). Or that could be some friend as well.

d0gsg0w00f• 2 years ago

Behind everyone with an alternative lifestyle is someone with a traditional one. Guess I'm the sucker who hosts Thanksgiving.

helsinkiandrew• 2 years ago

If I was his age a $2.5K on a years interrail ticket for unlimited travel across Europe (admittedly 2nd class and there may seat reservation charges) would be very tempting

https://www.eurail.com/en

jack_riminton• 2 years ago

When I was interrailing I'd try and do some across Europe night trains as it meant I saved on hostel costs and I'd wake up somewhere new. The choices are somewhat limited though

justincormack2• 2 years ago

Getting better again slowly after a bad period.

bergie• 2 years ago

We did that a lot as well. Night trains are the closest mankind has to teleportation. Hop on a train in Berlin, have a beer, sleep, wake up in the centre Paris or Rome with a coffee and a croissant.

interludead3• 2 years ago

It is sounds tempting but me personally could not imagine a life like that even though it gives him sence of freedom..

madaxe_again• 2 years ago

You’d be amazed what you can normalize, and how quickly, when you just start doing something, or living in a certain way.

I’ve lived in various different situations that seem in retrospect intolerable, but at the time were perfectly ok - for instance, in the early days of bootstrapping, I didn’t bother with a bed or a home, I just slept on the floor by my desk at the office, using my jacket as a pillow. It became normal frighteningly quickly - to the extent that when I moved into my own place a few years later, I needed cajoling to buy a mattress at the very least - things had just ceased to have a hold on me, and a bed honestly seemed like an extravagance, unnecessary, just something I’d have to move again at some point down the road.

I don’t live such a Spartan extreme now, by any stretch of the imagination - but some traces of that experience linger - but either way my point was that that became very normal for me in a matter of weeks or months. Coming back to a more normal way of life was a strange sensation.

Honestly, I can understand how homelessness works.

4gotunameagain• 2 years ago

But without beds in night trains, I would imagine it would either get very costly or very tiring very soon

dav_Oz2• 2 years ago

On October he did began to incorporate the Global Pass (3 months) which got him as far as Istanbul and Ankara and high up north as Kiruna in Sweden, Lapland.[0]

Seems a very cautious guy, as he was booking a night train from Budapest to Bucharest, apparently he was warned at the counter by an employee which made him very uneasy. Reminds of the story of that TEDx talk.[1]

He is clearly enjoying it so I hope the positive experiences encourage him to even go beyond Europe, like to India ;) [2]

[0]https://leben-im-zug.de/mein-jahresrueckblick-2023/

[1]https://youtu.be/R7vmHGAshi8?&t=778

[2]https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hippie_trail

teddyh• 2 years ago

high up north as Kiruna in Sweden

His northenmost point seems to have been Narvik (across the border in Norway). From what I can tell, that’s almost 70km (more than 40 miles) north of Kiruna.

kkfx4• 2 years ago

So he have nothing, no home, no more belongings that a suitcase and a laptop, the ideal SLAVE of the modern time, someone who exists until he can produce for someone else, who effectively own him, then can only die since he have no more option to live. And the article seems to be a spot for this kind of existence "hey, it's cheap"...

I'm actually curious how many really have stopped a minute to imaging what does it means be homeless and not owning anything. OF COURSE IT'S CHEAP.

andy992• 2 years ago

what does it means be homeless and not owning anything.

Freedom?

k1ck4ss3• 2 years ago

so, living in a home I own makes me lack some sort of freedom? If yes, what would be it?

protomolecule2• 2 years ago

Hunger, exposure to the elements, illness, death.

dmos62• 2 years ago

Is a home and belongings enough to emancipate a slave?

kkfx4• 2 years ago

No, but you have to define slavery and freedom. My definition of freedom is "being able to do something at my will" PLUS "without dramas".

If I own a home I can't relocate as easy as if I rent, of course, that's a slavery. BUT the home it's under my control and I can sell it. I have insurances if something goes wrong, and I can choose between many of them, the home is inside a State, I can't have the same home in multiple States but the State is formally a Democracy (not much in reality, but that's another broad topic) and it's stable enough, so I can sell the home and change state before being trapped in a harsh dictatorship. On contrary if I live on trains I have not much choice if a train get canceled let's say because of a storm and that's happen while I'm in a mountain area only with bank cards and no connection and no hotel nearby. As a simple example.

We are all a bit free and a bit slave, the point how much freedom we have and how dramatic is exercise it or not.

gaiagraphia• 2 years ago

Nothing wrong with young people spending a bit of time to 'hack the system', 'get out there', 'do new things', etc.

As long as this is strictly a personal project, with a goal, and an exit strategy, it's absolutely fine.

He'll probably grow up to be quite a successful person, and no doubt will have learnt a fair bit this year, as well as being humbled. Being homeless is grim, but it's nice to have perspective sometimes and a heightened sense of empathy, and not constantly live life on ezpz mode.

quickthrower2• 2 years ago

The opposite? Isn’t the person who needs to maintain a home and have lots of possessions more of a slave?

kkfx4• 2 years ago

Slavery is the absence of choices. Yes, owning a home means being slave of that to keep the home up, but you control it, it's an asset you depend on and you have full control on it. You typically live in a State with a certain level of stability established laws to protect private properties and so on. Meaning you have choices and backups.

Now try to imaging you works on YT, your revenues came form Alphabet for the video you publish. You produce them with a laptop in a rented office and on the go. Well, you have non backups, YT have your videos and your audience. A ban and you have no choice but to restart nearly from the ground, no insurances, laws, asset under your control and so on. Then you are a slave of YT.

I've choose to live the big city for the mountains, so I'm slave of a car to move. But I have three cars, of different brands, two moderns connected so potentially risky "not fully mine", one classic, so risky only in mechanical terms. Having choices I'm slave of "a car" but not on one in particular, so I'm free. I have desktops and homeservers, WFH if one break my data are locally available and locally usable on another, no slavery to wait for a new system get delivered of the nearest shopping mall to open to buy one in person. I have fiber and mobile with a good enough 4G/dummy 5G (700MHz, in France, it's both 4G and 5G) and no data cap issues. I'm evaluating if buying a Starlink base service might be a wise choice, so I'm not slave of a specific ISP to work/live BUT for instance to access my bank I'm slave of my mobile carrier, due to the mandatory OTP via SMS, no banks here allow classic RSA OTP or using a smart card or something else not connected anymore. That's a BIG slavery even if 99% of the time works issueless.

The difference between slavery and freedom it's not the mere presence of a choice but both choice and backups that allow you to choose without dramas. In freedom terms I can even took my life, but that's not a wise choice without drama, if I work on YT as described above I can formally change tomorrow but if it's my sole source of income it's not a choice without drama and so on.

robertlagrant2• 2 years ago

someone who exists until he can produce for someone else, who effectively own him

You're falsely equating ownership with exchange. He can do stuff for people, who can do stuff for him. He can choose who to do things for, and who does things for him. That's the opposite of slavery.

kkfx4• 2 years ago

Allow me to depict a small game: living on trains means needing trains with nigh services, what you do if your train is canceled? You pay with a credit card, what to do if a train is canceled for bad weather and you have no working internet connection? You work on a giant platform what you do if a day that platform, who store essentially your digital life since you just have a laptop, decide to ban you for some reasons and you can just write a message in a form to them and wait days? A small anecdote: due to a storm the mobile service where I live drop. I still have fiber working, and I WFH so no issues apparently. Well, no. I've needed to access my bank and I couldn't because to login I need an SMS OTP... I couldn't login on my mobile carrier WebUI where I can read SMS independently of the phone, because to login I need an OTP via SMS. I'm the customer or a slave of their services?

When you have alternatives there is no slavery, you can pick many options all the time, you have backup between them. When you depend on single entities you are their slave, no matter how "formally free" you are. Now I'm slave of my home to live in it, to continue this "strange journey", but the home is mine, I control it, I'm a citizen of a state with certain rights and laws and so on. I have then alternatives and backups. So the slavery from my home it's not much oppressive. I have three desktops at home, two homeservers and some spare parts, so if something breaks I can switch immediately not waiting for a spare part to come by the mail or a shopping mall to open to buy it ASAP. If I depend on a laptop I have no backup and if my data are all in someone else hand I depend on them, no backup. If I have no assets I own, I depend on my source of revenues CONSTANTLY meaning I have no backup to hunt for another job if I live paycheck to paycheck. That's slavery de facto, even if formally I'm free to go.

That's is.

pjc504• 2 years ago

He's 16.

someone who exists until he can produce for someone else, who effectively own him, then can only die since he have no more option to live.

Congratulations on spotting what "wage slavery" is only 150 years after Marx.

really have stopped a minute to imaging what does it means be homeless and not owning anything. OF COURSE IT'S CHEAP

It's more often appallingly expensive, especially since many jurisdictions take it as a license to destroy your property.

flohofwoe18• 2 years ago

He's 17 and at that age it's just an adventure. Not everything needs to happen in the context of Marxist class struggle.

Also, 10k Euro a year for living expenses isn't actually cheap, he would spend less money with a more traditional lifestyle and renting a small flat (outside big cities at least).

evilos• 2 years ago

He's a teenager going on adventures and working small jobs in between. His parent's house is a train ride away.

It's likely just a phase. Young people have been doing this since time immemorial. I think you are overreacting a tad.

dappermanneke• 2 years ago

new novelty lifestyle just dropped

alpenbazi• 2 years ago

awesome, i'd like to see him dating that way, and showing his desired partner THIS

kristov2• 2 years ago

Brave move, but I wonder how he keeps or makes new friendships and deeper relationships. Maybe this is fine for a while, but people need people (not just text in a chatroom), and I hope he has an exit strategy from this lifestyle, for this reason.

troupo• 2 years ago

I wonder more how he keeps his clothes and underwear clean :)

Slartie• 2 years ago

Washes them by hand in the wash basins of the DB lounges, to which he gets free access with his ticket.

cykros• 2 years ago

Probably the same way most people living in city apartments do it. Laundromats.

wongarsu• 2 years ago

Every sizable city has a couple of laundromats with washers and dryers. He probably has a favorite one he just travels to once a week.

In a pinch he could hand-wash them, but I imagine drying might be an issue with that.

0x000xca0xfe2• 2 years ago

He could also rent a couple of stash places with clothes and stuff like a movie undercover agent :)

oven9342• 2 years ago

He can visit relatives and friends whenever he feels like, no matter how far away they might be.

Breakfast in Berlin, Dinner in München.

His exit strategy is probably the same as mine, his bedroom at mom and pop’s hotel

kristov2• 2 years ago

It's not just about seeing people. It's about having deep connections and shared experiences. Eg: one of his friends has a life crisis and just needs to talk to someone. Are they going to hop on a train and track this guy down, or will they go see one of their other friends? So he will miss out being the person someone turns to, and these are the defining moments for long lasting friendships. Again, probably fine for a while, but if it goes on too long those existing friendships could fade away and he could miss out.

corobo4• 2 years ago

There's definitely a Fight Club single-serving friend reference to be had here.

Both in terms of cheap throwaway reference and maybe that's actually how he does it?

When I was commuting a lot I'd always see the same faces, eventually got to nattering with some of them. Nothing super deep or anything but that's probably more on my social ability than possibility :)

jesterson2• 2 years ago

people need people

While this lifestyle is not for me, i tend to concur on the statement. I personally pick my houses as distant from people as possible. People don’t need people. Sure it gets lonely sometimes but let me ask you if you enjoying the company you have all the time.

People don’t need people. It’s rather personality related

coldtea9• 2 years ago

They kind of do according to medical/mental health statistics though, even accounting for the personality type.

pimlottc• 2 years ago

I think you meant “I tend to differ”, “concur” means you agree.

dorkwood• 2 years ago

I'm going to assume when you say "people don't need people" that you're talking about social contact.

My question is: why do you post on HN for others to read? Why not just write your thoughts in a journal and keep it to yourself?

wolverine876• 2 years ago

YMMV, but all humans are social creatures, going back to our primate ancestors. Isolation harms health, mentally, emotionally, and physically; at its extreme, such as solitary confinement, it's considered torture. Note that almost all humans socialize and live among other humans (compared to animals like bears which live alone).

dukeyukey2• 2 years ago

People don’t need people. It’s rather personality related

You are on a social networking site right now. People always need people, even if they don't think they do.

JonChesterfield2• 2 years ago

Even in Germany, a software dev with a burn rate of 10k a year must be seriously in profit each month. Buy index funds on payday and he has a wide variety of exiting strategies available.

true_religion• 2 years ago

He is self employed and 17 years old. I don’t think he making quite as much as some might imagine.

Sebb7672• 2 years ago

Even in Germany, a software dev with a burn rate of 10k a year must be seriously in profit each month.

That comes down to ~840€ per month. Unless you live deep in the countryside, life is not going to be much cheaper as a non-nomad.

coldtea9• 2 years ago

Brave move, but I wonder how he keeps or makes new friendships and deeper relationships

Probably as well as the average not-train dwelling person:

https://www.npr.org/2023/05/02/1173418268/loneliness-connect...

interludead3• 2 years ago

There are people who enjoy getting to know a full of new peopel everyday and do not need that kind of connection

pjc504• 2 years ago

Travelling is an absolutely excellent way to meet people if you're at all open to it. "Deeper relationships" .. don't always last at that age. Often they get uprooted anyway at the transitions in and out of university. Which is probably the likely exit for this guy.

Heinrich_zHM• 2 years ago

I'd have to assume he spends more time with his family currently. The DB is constantly striking at the moment.

k1ck4ss3• 2 years ago

that's outsourcing the commodity of "needing somewhere to live" in a creative way. wait.. I often see that one same homeless man sitting in my bus in the last row's right seat when I am commuting back home from work

JonChesterfield2• 2 years ago

Sounds alright really. Less dystopian than living in Google's car park. Doesn't work with dog or family and I'm not sure about being stuck near train stations at destinations, folding bicycle would improve things. Not remotely surprised that he's a programmer.

This is essentially living subsidised by the train company who didn't expect someone to take an unlimited train ticket quite that literally. One guy doing this could be interpreted as marketing. A hundred would focus the operator's mind on words like "fair use". Drawing attention to himself like this may mark the end of this experience.

safety1st• 2 years ago

This kid is 17. What a chad! As long as he doesn't let less interesting people beat the creative spirit out of him, he's going to go places in life. I mean he's already doing so, about 800 miles worth of places per day

Zetobal• 2 years ago

Or he just dwells on this one thing for the rest of his life like many others did before him...

martindbp• 2 years ago

Great thing to do when you're young, why not. I slept on a mattress in a closet for a year. Standards increase as you age, not just because you can but because you get increasingly tired. I held out as long as I could, sleeping in cheap hostels when traveling, but after one night of drunk people coming into the dorm causing days of fatigue I realized it's time to up the standards. Or just not travel.

aidenn02• 2 years ago

Does "Chad" have positive connotations now? When I was younger it was fairly derogatory.

RamblingCTO6• 2 years ago

He's not the only one though. I read about a guy that spends his whole days in trains, driving the whole day through Germany. They accounted for that, I'm sure. It just these people are in, what, the 0.000001% or something?

He's subsidized by the state and other passengers, not the company.

carlmr2• 2 years ago

It just these people are in, what, the 0.000001% or something?

Exactly. It's not comfortable, it's not safe and cozy, it's not that cheap that homeless people would buy the BahnCard 100 that you couldn't find some form of cohabitation for a similar price.

And then there's the constant strikes as of now, so you might go days without shelter or need to pay for hotels which adds up quickly.

I'd say this is a rounding error

ant6n• 2 years ago

DB Fernverkehr which sells the tickets and operates the long distance trains is not directly subsidized by the public (even if ultimately the public owns the company), by EU and German law. There may be some subsidies coming in indirectly via the infrastructure, but that would be more so the case for buses.

ta1243• 2 years ago

The marginal cost of the journey is tiny. If he didn't pay the £8500 then the trains would still run.

flohofwoe18• 2 years ago

Drawing attention to himself like this may mark the end of this experience.

Unlikely, the FAQ on the ordering page explicitly states that the Bahncard 100 can be used for "any number of trips": https://www.bahn.de/angebot/bahncard/bahncard100-1-klasse.

Also, 7714 Euros is expensive (it's more than I pay for a year's rent in a small appartment in Berlin for instance).

I guess he's eating the additional cost for a 1st class Bahncard 100 because the 1st class usually isn't as extremely overcrowded as the 2nd class.

me_me_me2• 2 years ago

7714 per year is 600 per month

€600/month In Dublin would get you a 1m2 closet and shit bucket

chippiewill• 2 years ago

Unlikely, the FAQ on the ordering page explicitly states that the Bahncard 100 can be used for "any number of trips"

They can change that though (if there's a material cost impact to them of this). They could just say from next year that you're capped at N journeys per month or something, where N is a very large number for anyone other than someone trying to live on trains.

dfxm122• 2 years ago

Also, 7714 Euros is expensive (it's more than I pay for a year's rent in a small appartment in Berlin for instance)

I've heard Berlin is very expensive. I guess it's overblown like some other places I've lived that have a reputation for being "very expensive": if you're really looking, you can find affordable options, but the reporting data is being mostly skewed by outrageously expensive outliers.

dannyobrien• 2 years ago

Are you in a rent-controlled apartment? It seems an ok price for a single room available now, but not an easy price to get for a new arrival in Berlin.

FirmwareBurner2• 2 years ago

7714 Euros is expensive (it's more than I pay for a year's rent in a small appartment in Berlin for instance)

What apartment can you still get for less than 640 Euros in Berlin today?

andai• 2 years ago

Is the rest of Germany cheaper? That's wild, my student room in Holland ten years ago cost not much less than that.

locallost2• 2 years ago

All fair points, but I don't think the company minds that much. His average price is low especially for 1st class, but they do have a small number of cheap tickets you can get if you book fast enough or there isn't much demand. I once booked an 8-hour international 1st class ride for 35 euros. The full price was something like 250. There is for sure a threshold where it would be too many people, but I don't think they'd mind a few more people dropped 8k on this. First class is not that full and 8k is 8k.

On a personal note, I like trains, but not that much. One downside is that it's not guaranteed that he spends all his time in one train. It can be a bit of a distraction to have to switch trains. And also a bit tiring. Although since he I guess rides without a real destination he can just pick a train that goes across Germany, something like Hamburg - Freiburg.

KptMarchewa• 2 years ago

I once booked an 8-hour international 1st class ride for 35 euros.

If you book like 2-3 weeks ahead, there's plenty of 35 EUR first class tickets on the Warsaw-Berlin trains.

philshem• 2 years ago

It’s basically VanLife in a country with public transport.

ncr1004• 2 years ago

Sort of, with much less labor to go places.

627467• 2 years ago

There are so many possible perspectives for such story but in this day and age the focus is on how much this cost.

So let's talk about cost: I don't know how often he sleeps in this way[0] but clearly at £8500/year no one is discussing the externalized cost of taking up (arguably empty) seats he didn't pay for and setting the stage for future "nomads" to do the same and turning first class night trains into a substandard hostel

[0] https://leben-im-zug.de/mein-erster-tag-mit-der-bahncard-100... > That night, I decide to lie down under the seats on my air mattress, the air mattress at 2 meters doesn't quite fit under a 4 seat, so there's still a little bit of the footwell of the square in front of me, but with the low occupancy of the train, this is not a problem whatsoever, with my head half under a seat of the 4 seat. It's tight, but it's enough to lie on your side and change position sometimes at night, I take up about 3 seats in total.

unglaublich2• 2 years ago

People overusing their subscriptions are compensated by people underusing them.

lupire• 2 years ago

People who exercise are overusing their share of air. People with more children are overusing their share of sunlight.

Brian_K_White4• 2 years ago

There is no such thing as overusing a thing that is sold as unlimited.

It's true that the train company does some probability math and figures out some balance point for the proper price for the ticket based on some estimated bell curve of usage, just like a diner selling a "bottomless" cup of coffee for $1.

But that doesn't make the right half of the curve "overusing" any more than it makes the left half of the curve "underusing". They are all merely using the thing that the supplier sold in accordance with the terms set by the supplier.

BSDobelix• 2 years ago

seats he didn't pay for and setting the stage for future

That`s why he's under the seats, but let's talk about AirBNB-Ghosttown's ;)

And i think it's a absolute nice adventure for a 17 y/o. Talk with lot's of different peoples, see lot's of places....genius i love it!

ithkuil2• 2 years ago

he didn't pay for

hey, he paid for it! They gave him an unlimited ticket in exchange for euros.

You're free to say that the train company shouldn't have created an unlimited ticket but it's unfair to paint a person who uses what he legally bought as a thief.

MagnumOpus• 2 years ago

Read the comment again - he pays for one seat, he sleeps across 3 or 4.

gnfargbl2• 2 years ago

Some of the older posts (https://leben-im-zug.de/howto-nachtreise-im-ice/) explain that when he was travelling second class, he was able to sleep on a luggage rack most of the time. That practice actually appears to consume a negative number of seats!

This is clearly also something you can only do when you're seventeen. I think if I tried to sleep on a luggage rack then (a) I would wake up in a claustrophobic panic attack, and (b) the rack would break.

garciasn• 2 years ago

Only because, according to him, the attendants don't seem to mind the homeless teenager (and others) doing this, not because it's ok.

stubish• 2 years ago

no one is discussing the externalized cost of taking up (arguably empty) seats he didn't pay for and setting the stage for future "nomads" to do the same and turning first class night trains into a substandard hostel

It is not an externalized cost. DB would even make more money if more people did it, up until the point it started costing them more profitable sales (at which point they will change the rules). It is like any mass transport, where it is better to carry a passenger at zero or even negative profit than it is to have a half empty bus/plane/train. A full plane, even if half are traveling at cost, is more profitable than a half full plane, because the fixed costs of the journey is amortized over more passengers. Rather than 50% of the full fare being lost to the fixed journey costs, only 25% of the full fare gets lost. This is how economy class works, where little profit is made, but covers the fixed cost of a flight allowing more profit to be extracted from business, first and extras.

interludead3• 2 years ago

Programming make it happen for him. It's really cool

mipsi• 2 years ago

After reading this, Snowpiercer doesn't feel that awkward anymore.

ciconia• 2 years ago

Uch. TRAINS. They’re a necessary evil in many of our lives. Horrible big tin cans full of smelly people that never turn up on time and make you late for everything. The less time spent on them the better. At least for most of us in the UK, anyway.

Not my first though when I think of trains, but I'm not in the UK.

Milner08• 2 years ago

British trains are mostly a profit making enterprise for other European nations, rather than an actual public transport network for the people who need it.

(Their are exceptions to this and not all train companies are linked to other countries state owned railways, but many are. They get cheap travel and we get scammed)

martinald3• 2 years ago

This is just totally incorrect. Total rail subsidy in the UK is £11bn/yr. Ticket sales are another ~£8bn/yr Total TOC profits are £100m/yr. Rolling stock operating companies take maybe £200m/yr in profit but it varies.

So TOC/ROSOC profits 'take out' 1.5% of the money in the system. Saying they are 'mostly' a profit making enterprise is completely ridiculous.

Also, while the UK has privatised TOCs, Germany and other countries are also opening regional/long distance rail routes to franchising of sorts. National Express (a British company) operates a surprising amount of routes (and growing) in North Rhine-Westphalia (and probably other regions) for example. It's not just a one way thing.

badcppdev• 2 years ago

It's the British way to hate on things that are quite useful parts of their society. Trains, highways, airports, health system, garbage collection, emergency services, etc all work remarkably well and people just choose to look at the negative aspects and tell negative anecdotes. It does feel like it's counterproductive on a society level.

notahacker2• 2 years ago

When I saw "I spend £8500 a year to live on a train" I assumed it was someone moaning about a 2hr commute to London...

pacifika• 2 years ago

Just a story device to contrast a positive experience

gnfargbl2• 2 years ago

I am in the UK and I certainly don't think of trains this way. I rarely have the occasion to take a train but whenever I do it seems like a special little treat: I sit at my laptop in a warm and vaguely comforting space, with a coffee, whilst a vista of the English countryside is presented to me as a film in the background.

Perhaps it helps that I don't tend to travel at peak times or on peak routes.

tdullien• 2 years ago

There's a German rapper from the 1990's (MC Rene) that tried to turn himself into a standup comedian, and he wrote a book about doing the same a couple years ago:

https://www.amazon.de/MC-Rene-Alles-Karte-sehen/dp/349962969...

koevet2• 2 years ago

I wonder how does he actually work as a digital nomad. Internet on DB trains is massively unreliable, there are entire patches of country that are not covered by mobile signal.

kwhitefoot5• 2 years ago

Perhaps he uses tethering on his mobile. Or gets on with working for long periods without being distracted by continual distractions so that reliability of the network is less important.

15457345234• 2 years ago

I wonder how does he actually work as a digital nomad.

I suspect the secret here is that a lot of people adopting this type of lifestyle produce really mediocre output and some way or another fit into the gaps at a large company that doesn't conduct aggressive performance reviews.

Everyone is different but I find it hard to believe that high quality code is generated from working consistently in that type of environment. Perhaps lots and lots of boilerplate.

flohofwoe18• 2 years ago

What type of work requires to be connected to the internet all the time? If anything it's one source of distractions less.

myaccountonhn• 2 years ago

Having met many people who work remotely and travel, you have everything from mediocre english teachers, grifters, programmers (good and bad) to over-achievers with successful lifestyle-businesses.

Lately I've been programming less and less with wifi while sitting at libraries and cafes without wifi. It's fine, just have proper dev environments, use isync for offline emails, download docs and learn to read manuals instead of stackoverflow.

flohofwoe18• 2 years ago

Coding works okay. Git works offline, and for the occasional pull/push even a slow connection is good enough

koevet2• 2 years ago

What about meetings?

walteweiss3• 2 years ago

The boy is 17. At that age you’re not that overwhelmed with people distracting you for no real reason. (Apart from parents, but that’s not work-related usually.)

So you can basically be offline most of the time. I envy that bliss, it’s so difficult to do when you’re much older, with kids, pets, and the family.

propter_hoc• 2 years ago

I don't understand. What does he eat? Does the first class ticket include meals?

ncr1004• 2 years ago

And what about washing his clothing? What about doctors?

flohofwoe18• 2 years ago

It's all in the article:

"He travels first class, sleeps on night trains, has breakfast in DB lounges and takes showers in public swimming pools and leisure centres, all using his unlimited annual railcard."

For washing your clothes there are plenty of laundromats in cities, for visiting the doctor or dentist, you make an appointment, and then plan your travels so that you are in the right city at the right time. It's really not that complicated.

With the Bahncard 100 he can also use the public transport in cities, so it's not like he's limited to walking distance of the train stations.

...also, his overall cost of living is apparently around 10k Euros a year. The unlimited train ticket is just 3/4 of that (7714 Euros).

flohofwoe18• 2 years ago

You can eat on the train's restaurant coach but it's expensive. But he can simply hop out at one stop, go shopping for food or to a restaurant and then hop on the next train. Usually you don't even need to leave the train station for that stuff (unless it's a village or small town).

jamil7• 2 years ago

Good on him, I guess? I'm happy we have a somewhat functioning high speed rail system here but I can't say I'm in a hurry to be in the ICE 24/7 for the same price as renting a flat.

jplrssn• 2 years ago

Especially seeing as the steady state of DB operations these days seems to be utter chaos.

But it does seem like a good way to explore the country.

Cthulhu_2• 2 years ago

He's not in an ICE 24/7 though, if you read the article he goes hiking in the alps or to the beach. The train is for sleeping.

gitaarik3• 2 years ago

He also works in the train

jorisboris3• 2 years ago

If I would live in Switzerland or Japan I would buy a yearly unlimited first class pass and find circular connections so I can work from the train throughout the day

_visgean3• 2 years ago

why Switzerland? I would think its a bit too small for this kind of travel.

jorisboris3• 2 years ago

great punctuality, cleanliness, and most of all amazing landscapes

junar• 2 years ago

I don't think you'd be able to find a real equivalent in Japan.

* Rail passes do exist, but they are mostly for tourists. They are short-duration, can be relatively expensive, and often specifically exclude Japan residents.

* Night trains have mostly disappeared. Buses and airplanes have proven to be more competitive options.

[1] https://www.japan-guide.com/e/e2357.html

[2] https://www.japan-guide.com/e/e2356.html

jorisboris3• 2 years ago

Thanks for clarifying, admittedly I didn't look in the feasibility of my plan, it's more of a daydream :)

TimCTRL• 2 years ago

metro - no pun intended :)

charlieKilo• 2 years ago

What about his carbon footprint? Is it responsible to travel hundred thousands of miles without an actual reason to travel?

Cthulhu_2• 2 years ago

The trains go anyway, so it makes zero difference. Only if enough people stop commuting altogether will the carbon footprint of travel be reduced.

There's a fallacy where people believe the actions of an individual have any significant impact on emissions; be it travel, energy efficient homes, dietary lifestyle choices like vegetarianism and veganism. But the effect of those are all rounding errors at best. The only change can come from companies and large businesses.

_visgean3• 2 years ago

The only change can come from companies and large businesses.

the large polluting companies don't exist in vacuum. They sell what they sell because consumers are buying it. E.g. saying that Shell / BP is the largest polluter is nice but there is no way to run oil company without selling oil to the individual to be burned.

dghughes• 2 years ago

I decided to live on a train when I was 16 years old. My school days were behind me and the whole world was open to me.

That alone is amazing. Is 16 normal in Germany or did this guy graduate years earlier than normal?

Answering my own question, seems maybe they went to a "Realschule"? If I understand it correctly kind of a trade or technical school for those whose path leads into a job right away. Otherwise it's Gymnasium (funny sounding to English speakers) a regular school path that leads to University.

yungporko• 2 years ago

back when i left school (2010) i was 16, there was no requirement to stay in further education in UK, so wouldn't be surprised if it was similar elsewhere. i believe it has changed in UK since then though.

seabass-labrax4• 2 years ago

This is correct; one must be in full time education up to the age of 18 now. However, this does not need to be at school; apprenticeships, correspondence courses and other kind of educational programmes count too. School leaving age (for those who are not educated at home) is still 16.

Sebb7672• 2 years ago

In Germany, you usually start school at 6 years old, with 4 years of primary. After that, you have three options: - Hauptschule, which takes 5 years and only gives a basic degree (sufficient for working in the trades) - Realschule, which takes 6 years and gives you a more advanced degree for apprenticeships - Gymnasium, which takes 8 years and gives the highest degree necessary for University

With each, you also have the option to continue afterwards and work towards a higher degree. He most likely finished Realschule, although it would be possible to skip classes and finish Gymnasium by 16 (but this is exceptionally rare).

Neil44• 2 years ago

Even the unsurprisingly much more efficient German rail system.

I hate this fetishization of anything European as if it's the land of milk and honey. If you live in Haiti OK, but I'm guessing the authour doesn't.

NovemberWhiskey• 2 years ago

I mean, it’s not even accurate at this point: DB has become something of a basket case in the last few years. The stereotype being relied on is quite outdated.

https://www.theguardian.com/business/2023/oct/14/its-the-sam...

eythian• 2 years ago

In this case it's specifically a - very out of date and no longer accurate - fetishisation of the German rail system (you can tell because those are the words used, the article author being in Europe, and the fact that internationally there is this perception that DB does a good job from people who haven't had to use it recently.)

This said, DB is probably still better than what I've heard about the UK train system, but it's long ago lost its lustre and in my experience when taking IC(E)s through it, delays and cancellations are common occurrences. While I've never got stuck there overnight, I've had several hours added to 6-ish hour journeys regularly.

alismayilov• 2 years ago

By the way, student dormitory cost around ~200-300 euros per month. And semester fee costs 300 euros per semester (6months). In total, it makes 3900 euros. So, the train is not the most cost efficient solution, if you are young.

treme• 2 years ago

Adventure is priceless

gongdzhauh• 2 years ago

So is the university experience when you are the same age as most fellow students.

I don't think one or the other is a superior way to spend ones formative years, though doing the train thing might make more sense before going to school, as he may form relationships in school that he won't want to give up for riding a train.

willsmith72• 2 years ago

He would have to spend his time studying instead of working though, or else get kicked out

tiborsaas• 2 years ago

Yeah, but for a little extra, the scenery of your window keeps changing every minute, every hour, every day compared to a fixed room :)

landgenoot3• 2 years ago

Reminds me of the ads on the city buses in Berlin

60m^2, keine Küche, kein Bad - Für 60,66 EUR warm im Monat.

EN: 60 square meters, no kitchen, no bathroom - for just 60.66 EUR per month, utilities included.

https://steamuserimages-a.akamaihd.net/ugc/20182186004296102...

madcaptenor• 2 years ago

too many roommates, though.

themoonisachees• 2 years ago

...do you use the steam screenshot sharing function as an image host?

landgenoot3• 2 years ago

No. It was the first result on Google image search. However, after taking a closer look, I think it is some in-game screenshot of a bus simulator.

Arrath• 2 years ago

I'm glad I wasn't the only one perplexed by that.

mateo1• 2 years ago

Well, he's not the only one living on a moving vehicle. Tons of homeless people get bus passes and ride around all day and night. A train ride is less bumpy, sure, but it's effectively the same. Although what probably happens is that this kid goes on weekend train trips and comes back home the next day, unless he's seriously mentally ill. Even the most dedicated backpacker would give up on this after a week. It's basically torture.

danielfoster• 2 years ago

If I understood the situation correctly, he times his day train to book a night train with a sleeping berth. Still, I agree. I would find this very uncomfortable after some time.

Hopefully he also has friends he can stay with in various cities.

sotix• 2 years ago

And here I am spending $700 to take the Amtrak with a sleeper room one-way as a mini vacation! I admire his adventurous spirit. I’m a bit nervous to travel by myself. Particularly once I arrive in SF where I don’t know anyone, but I’ll figure it out as I go. My plan is to put the phone and laptop away for a few days and enjoy reading the Lord of the Rings while viewing some beautiful places and capturing them on film.

DrNosferatu2• 2 years ago

The potential for psychological fatigue is huge!

OwlsParlay• 2 years ago

The sad fact is that this is more expensive than my 1-bed flat was 15 years ago. Rent really is insane if this is preferable now.

voisin2• 2 years ago

In Canada, this would be approximately the cost of a one-way ticket from Toronto to Vancouver. Our rail lines are absurdly expensive relative to flying and even driving on your own.

herewulf• 2 years ago

Be that as it may, in comparison to Germany, the distance between those two places is absurdly far, and the population density in between is absurdly low. ;)

voisin2• 2 years ago

I fully recognize that, but 1 trip versus unlimited travel for a year seems to more than make up for those points.

Scarblac• 2 years ago

In the Netherlands, when I had a monthly first class ticket for my commute, I'd sometimes take the train home and back to work during the day to get work done. I was able to focus in the train much better than in the office, sometimes.

I've also considered going freelance and doing all work from the train with an unlimited ticket like this, it'd work great I think.

But sleeping there is a bit too much.

unixhero• 2 years ago

Super shitty intro on this article. I had to say it

penjelly• 2 years ago

i sleep while I race along the tracks towards my destination. I don’t have a place to retreat to.

many people pay specifically for place to retreat to

immibis3• 2 years ago

Isn't this a completely illegal way to live due to the registration requirement that requires every person living in Germany to have a fixed address?

flohofwoe18• 2 years ago

He's probably registered at his parent's address. But really, nobody will give a fig about where he's registered vs where he actually lives.

micromacrofoot• 2 years ago

Uch. TRAINS. They’re a necessary evil in many of our lives. Horrible big tin cans full of smelly people that never turn up on time and make you late for everything. The less time spent on them the better. At least for most of us in the UK, anyway.

Wow, is this the common attitude about trains in the UK? how dour

ncr1004• 2 years ago

It's like, living with Star Trek transporter technology:

‘If I feel like travelling to the sea, I take the train north in the morning. If I long for the hustle and bustle of the big city, then I look for a connection to Berlin or Munich. Or I take the express train to the Alps for a hiking trip.’

I'm curious to learn more about how his feelings being so quickly satisfied makes an impact on him...

karaterobot• 2 years ago

I think that knowing I had to make the night train or else sleep in the train station every single night would make me too nervous to enjoy the freedom of being able to visit all these places. You get to travel everywhere, but you'd better stay within a bus ride of the train station at all times. Not for me. That's me though, glad he's enjoying it so far.

jmclnx• 2 years ago

Very cool, I thing in North America this would be impossible or at least very uncomfortable.

WesolyKubeczek• 2 years ago

I'm wondering about his typical daily routine as spending almost a whole day seated even in a comfier variety of train seats would make my everything hurt like hell. I know, I've done it.

I mean, is it possible to keep some sort of a healthy movement regimen like this?

Cool otherwise, if I were 20 years younger, single, and had the kind of money to do it, I'd try at least a vacation like this.

Another practical question is how would you keep your gear from getting stolen?

sandworm1012• 2 years ago

I do not believe.

Does this guy have a passport? Then he has a mailing address.

He claims to work. Then he pays taxes. In which country? he has a mailing address.

At 17, I'd bet good money that his mailing address is also his parent's mailing address. This is a gap student having fun bouncing around Europe, about as nomadic as any other backpacker.

flohofwoe18• 2 years ago

He's most likely registered at his parent's address, but it's not like there's an age restriction where you're no longer allowed to live in your parent's basement or to physically be there ;)

At that age he's also mostly included in his parent's insurances, so one less thing to worry about. Taxes are deducted automatically from his wage. And to receive the wage he just needs a bank account.

mudita• 2 years ago

As far as I know, it is possible to have the entry "ohne festen Wohnsitz"(without a permanent residence) instead of a mailing address in a German passport and he's legally not allowed to use his parents address, if he's not there for at least 183 days a year.

But I don't really understand how this small legal detail would change the whole character of his life experience, in any case. No matter what is written in his passport, he spends the whole year in a train.

sandworm1012• 2 years ago

Because there are real nomads, people without any address that run into all sorts of legal difficulties, difficulties that are belittled when people write about how easy it is to live on a train 24/7. Some are "homeless" others are from cultural groups that roam. And a large number are children in government care who then must transition to adult life sometimes without the convenience of a fixed mailing address. Our systems of government and assistance are still based on legal residency at a particular point on the map. Despite all the stories about mobile professionals working wherever the please, this is a privilege enjoyed by those who retain fixed support infrastructures to which can return as needed.

Look at the "Van life" trend. The people are forced to live in their cars/vans really do not appreciate those who glamorize it. It is not an easy thing.

lakpan• 2 years ago

I’m in my 30s and resident at my parents house, on a continent I spend 30 days/year on average. My company is registered there even. Most people have a “home” (or mailing address) even if they don’t live there.

notahacker2• 2 years ago

This was also the solution I used when I spent 3 years travelling the UK in a boat. And for that matter when I was living in London in shared flats...

grecy2• 2 years ago

I spent 10 years without setting foot in the country I have a passport for.

I spent 2 years driving from Alaska to Argentina all on tourist visas. I spent 3 years driving around Africa all on tourist visas. Technically I could have done that without paying tax anywhere, though I continued to do so because I was working towards permanent residency in another country.

I now have a passport from a country I've never been to. I've renewed my passport from the country I was born in three times without going there.

I only need a mailing address to actually pick something up, and I usually use a friends address, or even that of a hostel or campground.

probablynish3• 2 years ago

I continued to do so because I was working towards permanent residency in another country.

I'm curious, what country let you work towards permanent residency without you being physically present in it? (Sounds like you were driving around different places at the time)

jpalawaga• 2 years ago

does passport necessitate mailing address?

but anyhow, you could plausibly get by with not paying any taxes by continuously moving countries. The real question is to which bank is the payment being made? If your an employee you'll probably have your income reported. you could skirt that, somewhat, by being a contractor, but even then, to which business, or to which bank account is being made?

Anyhow, none of that precludes him from being a nomad. it seems you have more of a bone to pick with the choice of the word nomad, which descends from 'noman' or more modernly 'nobody'. I think it has more to do with a lack of permanent community than a lack of a mailing address.

nicolas_t2• 2 years ago

You know how it is with trains. Even the unsurprisingly much more efficient German rail system.

Efficient and German Rail systems are not words that go together.

https://www.dw.com/en/germany-november-train-punctuality-wor...

moooo997• 2 years ago

I mean, you could argue that given how bad the state of our rail infrastructure is overall, being punctual on slightly over 50% of trips could be counted as efficient?

tetris112• 2 years ago

I'm surprised this is coming from the Metro. Trains in England are bad, but trains in Germany are the worst.

The only thing that works in Germany are the busses, and even then, some of them you have to call an hour before first...

stevenjgarner• 2 years ago

Why is that in your opinion? In the US, passenger trains (Amtrak) are generally hopeless as well (expensive, not punctual, etc) especially across most of the country where Amtrak operates on other company's (freight) tracks. In the northeast corridor (where Amtrak has its own tracks), its service is markedly better.

mcluck4• 2 years ago

I have heard this opinion over and over again but it just hasn't been my experience. I've spent a lot of time in both Berlin and Munich over the last couple of years and I never waited more than 10 minutes for a train

albert1803• 2 years ago

Lol Trains in the UK are shit. Every ICE Trainset and even most commuter services have way more comfort than the UK trains with uncomfortable seats, usually no tables or sockets in second class on commuter routes, a smell of shit inside the Avanti Pendolinos, and trains that should have been recycled 30 years ago.

usr1106• 2 years ago

The reliability of trains in Germany is horrible compared to the planned and published timetables.

However, there are typically many more connections than in many other countries. Don't expect to be at your destination in time, but once you have accepted that travelling by train is still better than in many other countries. Yes, Switzerland plays in a different league.

Cars get stuck in traffic jams all the time. Still I don't hear frequently how horrible travelling by car is.

munksbeer2• 2 years ago

Things must have really changed. Back in 1998 I did a month long trip around Germany on whatever the ticket was called to travel as much as you wanted for that month. I never had issues and I loved it all.

ornornor• 2 years ago

Indeed, my limited experience with German trains is awful.

There are lines in Switzerland where some of the trains doing it are DB trains transiting through CH and going from or to Germany. These trains also pickup and drop off passengers in CH, doing the same stops as the national trains.

I’ve learnt to avoid these German trains like the plague: they’re often late, crowded, dirty, or even canceled at the last minute.

Even if they (in theory) offer a shorter travel time, I know by now it’s mostly fictional because of the issues above. I prefer to take the SBB train that I’m sure will show up even if it means the trip will be 30 min longer.

xutopia• 2 years ago

This is horrible and I hope it doesn't encourage anyone to do this. No friendships beyond the very shallow relationships you can develop with the workers onboard the train or the people passing through.

This feels inhumane to me. I can't imagine someone being happy doing this for any length of time.

Mistletoe• 2 years ago

This is kind of what I want to do for several years with my girlfriend. Hide out from the real world on the trains of Europe and explore. Can someone tell me if this pass is Germany only or is something like this available for a lot of Europe?

locallost2• 2 years ago

It's Germany only, but Germany is pretty big. As a foreigner not sure if you'd be able to stay that long without applying for a visa, and you won't get that without a permanent address. If you know someone there you can maybe register at their address.

edit: but for the whole of Europe you do have Interrail but not sure how much it costs. I doubt you can do that every day but could be wrong.

simonw• 2 years ago

I don't see why this would prevent friendships. You don't have to be on the train 24 hours a day - just overnight while sleeping. If you have friends in Berlin you can arrive in Berlin in the morning, spend the day hanging out with them, then head back to the station at 10pm for a night train to somewhere else.

At its best this could enable you to maintain friendship groups in multiple cities.

zakki• 2 years ago

You can use that money for:

- rent a 2 storeys shop for a year 1/3 - start a small business - 1/3 - personal monthly expenses for a year - 1/3

in a medium town in Indonesia.

Enjoy the journey in bootstrapping your business.

elif• 2 years ago

I've dreamed (and planned) on taking a 3 month trip in Japan, sleeping on first class overnight shinkansen trains. They are needle drop quiet every single day and foreigners can get unlimited rail passes for a good deal (though not as amazing as it used to be)

mundays• 2 years ago

Overnight trains in Japan are all but extinct now. Only two remain (but really, one). It seems that the economics just don't add up.

account-5• 2 years ago

Not possible in the UK. In the UK every year the charge more for reduced services.

mrandish2• 2 years ago

IMHO, more young people should do this kind of thing (within reason of course). Now that I'm older I realize I didn't appreciate how opportunities to do stuff like this often diminish in later phases of life. Personally, I did have some adventures kind of like this, but in retrospect, I should have done a bit more as I look back very fondly on those times.

boppo1• 2 years ago

Would have done tons of things like this if I didn't have student loans hanging over my head.

syndicatedjelly2• 2 years ago

Don’t create mental blocks like that in your head just because everyone else in your age group says the same thing. You don’t have to zap every penny of debt in order to enjoy your life.

dangus• 2 years ago

This seems cheaper than rent so I don’t know what student loans has to do with it.

ushakov• 2 years ago

No worries, this guy is in debt like you!

  "Schlussendlich schaffte ich es nur mit einem Kredit von meinem Onkel, die 5.888€ für die BahnCard aufzubringen"

  "I only managed to raise €5,888 for the BahnCard with a loan from my uncle"

source: https://leben-im-zug.de/mein-jahresrueckblick-2023/

Brian_K_White4• 2 years ago

Classic excuse for not doing a thing. You made choices, that's all, you were not prevented from any choices, you simply didn't think of or didn't prioritize them.

Which is fine, we all have to obviously since you can't have everything. The point is just that whatever you didn't choose, you didn't choose.

There are countless things I wish I did, and although at various points I had no money or other potential excuses I could say, none of those actually prevented me from persuing whatever I did choose to persue instead. Many things I didn't do I know were purely from lack of imagination or bravery or effort. Other things I did do, I somehow did despite having no money or only junk versions of tools & resources etc.

I don't have to know your particular life details and hardships because it doesn't matter what they are. This applies to some greater or lesser degree to everyone who is merely lucky enough not to be born a literal owned property slave chained to a wall in a box.

nebula8804• 2 years ago

YES! Absolutely. I look back on my 20s and these events where I had a moments of bravery in a sea of mediocrity and regret stand out as the defining moments that had any lasting memories.

Things as simple as talking to a girl on the train and striking up a friendship to saving up some money and quitting my job that I hated and did not want to do to buy a one way ticket to another continent and living out of hostels.

There have been pain points: , a decade later that girl ended up causing me grief when we did not amicably split ties, the trip caused me to encounter scammers on the run from the law that robbed me of some money and almost landed me in French jail by mistake, the switch from a field I got boxed into that I quit to what I wanted to do was painful and took way longer than it should have.

But looking back, i'd suffer through the dark moments all over again because it made me grow. My life looking back thus far was a mostly mundane existence of missed opportunities mixed in with moments of bravery that spiced things up from time to time and for that I am grateful and blessed.

aaronrobinson• 2 years ago

Just make sure that in the future you don’t look back on the time you have now with the same regrets.

forinti• 2 years ago

I don´t really know what his parents were afraid of, they are in Germany. Maybe they might have to drive somewhere to pick him up.

lenkite• 2 years ago

I always enjoyed Deutsche Bahn whenever I traveled to Germany. Such a user-friendly experience for an international tourist. Even before the smartphone era it was easy to book tickets at the machine. Just hop and go to another city and return with the night train!

Saw so many places without the stress of driving.

Smar• 2 years ago

Here in Finland, I've only ever purchased tickets from the machines on stations. I suppose they are not used in most countries?

bpye• 2 years ago

The UK has both, you can buy digital tickets, you can buy tickets online and pick them up at the station, you can buy them on the digital machines at the station or at larger stations you can buy them at the service desk at the station.

josefresco• 2 years ago

"takes showers in public swimming pools"

I hope this doesn't mean he was actually bathing in the pool but rather using the shower facilities at public pools.

Razengan2• 2 years ago

I've always thought this should be a thing: Hotel Trains, that stop at different places for breakfast, lunch, and dinner, promoting the tourism in each area.

ascorbic• 2 years ago

Sounds like the Venice-Simplon Orient Express

porkbeer• 2 years ago

This is heartbreaking that his best option is to live like a vagrant.

lawrenceyan• 2 years ago

I might have to try this at some point.

Razengan2• 2 years ago

I had this awesome idea: How about hosting developer conferences or game jams on "hotel trains"?

The train could go around the country (or even, say in Europe, multiple countries) picking up the attendees, stopping at various places to eat or whatever, then drop everyone off after a couple days.

moi2388• 2 years ago

Yea, Germans are efficient. They are also, however, even more bureaucratic

I spend £8,500 a year to live on a train

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