U.S. military-run slot machines earn $100M a year from service members

https://www.npr.org/2022/07/31/1110882487/dod-slot-machines-overseas-bases

by geox • 4 years ago

380 263 4 years ago

rbanffy2• 4 years ago

I don't think my English vocabulary extends enough to properly describe the surreal mix of stupefaction and disgust this very concept creates on me.

Overtonwindow• 4 years ago

May I Suggest "cluster fuck".

thedaly• 4 years ago

"Fucked" is another option. The US wastes so much money on the military, but that all gets funneled to contractors and the enlisted soldiers get fucked.

alex_suzuki• 4 years ago

or SNAFU? Situation normal - all f**ed up

jslql• 4 years ago

Is this a reference to that one movie?

rbanffy2• 4 years ago

No. Doesn’t begin to describe it. Need something much stronger.

sneak• 4 years ago

Consider the fact that the US military fleeces taxpayers to the tune of Elon Musk's entire net worth every 10 weeks; I'm fine with consensually subsidizing that a bit from the incomes of those who explicitly opted in to participating in it.

They've actually double opted in: first to join up, and second to put money in the slot machine. Let them pay for it.

loser777• 4 years ago

"now ain't that some shit"

LinuxBender2• 4 years ago

Well that's a change. When I served the military would actively fight addiction problems, sometimes to an extreme. As an example one of the people I served with had a drinking problem. He was put in the brig and had to crawl on all fours pushing a beer can around the complex with his nose all day, every day. This was extreme but so was his BAC. The alternate option I heard a couple colonels arguing for was a court-martial and dishonorable discharge.

I can see the benefit to keeping the gambling addiction losses in-house but encouraging money problems and then punishing people for said money problems seems a bit like an artificially created circular problem.

MWR programs are supposed to be beneficial, not detrimental. Get them some video game consoles. Buy them all VR setups and require {n} hours of physically demanding games and game scores. It's probably less cost than the fallout from gambling addiction. VR combat training rigs, like ARMA on steroids but actually causes pain when you get hit. Surely someone here in the HN world could fund such a thing. Provide time-off and money to the top tier contestants of the VR simulators.

Oh and don't limit this to combat simulation. Implement medical training, surgical training, electrical training, construction, military vehicle repair, flight training like X-plane on steroids, space flight training like Avorion on steroids, recce training, weapon repair training, etc... Let them explore skill-sets they and the military were unaware they had.

zyang• 4 years ago

Maybe the military doesn't really care about the wellbeing of the troops as long as it doesn't affect their effectiveness...?

LinuxBender2• 4 years ago

If so, that's a big change from my time. Perhaps some generals need to be reallocated to Antarctica for an extended tour of duty. Congress ultimately controls purse strings, but Generals can make a phone call and put a stop to anything.

ericmay4• 4 years ago

Like any large organization, the organization does care but sometimes some of the managers don't care as much or don't do a good job. The military brass definitely cares about and understands this based on my experience. It's just hard to pull off.

jabroni_salad• 4 years ago

Anyone with a clearance will specifically be looked at for gambling. Gamblers can eventually be leveraged. Considering that the military is one of the fattest pipelines for clearance workers, it'd be a good idea to tamp down on this.

ericmay4• 4 years ago

My favorite was if you got put in the drunk tank our 1SG would go pick you up and make you run back to the barracks (assuming you didn't do anything besides just be drunk).

It would be cool to see makerspaces or something similar on bases. I recall there were mechanic shops (I could be misremembering) where you could bring your car to work on it and borrow tools. With tools now you could create some hiking clubs and stuff too.

Doing this stuff isn't easy though and I know when I was finished with duty and finished working out for the second time that day I really didn't have energy to do much except play video games and knock back a few beers. Creating new programs, clubs, initiatives are hard. And in the military often times you have turnover on the bases so it's hard to maintain continuity even when someone creates something. If it were up to me I'd have a cadre of 3-10 individuals who ran, funded, maintained clubs and programs for soldiers. I'll not be surprised if I find out that this already exists either lol.

CobaltFire• 4 years ago

Bases are getting makerspaces; I discovered that Miramar has one in the base library a couple of months ago! They are rolling them out as they get funding.

wdb• 4 years ago

In my country it is even difficult to get a security clearance when your siblings are a massive drug or alcohol addict. Due to high chance of bribery

LAC-Tech• 4 years ago

He was put in the brig and had to crawl on all fours pushing a beer can around the complex with his nose all day, every day.

Damn if only I could have done that to my parents.

maxerickson2• 4 years ago

It's about 7 cents out of every $1000 of payroll, if I did the math right.

(seems that wages are about $140 billion a year)

Of course the average being tiny doesn't mean it isn't causing problems for people that gamble way more than the average.

gowld2• 4 years ago

Did you remember to only count payroll from the the non-domestic bases that have slot machines?

jhbadger• 4 years ago

Historically, the US military used to (until 1975) give out free cigarettes in rations, so there's a precedent in encouraging addiction as well.

p1necone2• 4 years ago

I doubt that was really the intent. Back then so many people smoked, and cigarettes were so "normal" that not putting them in rations would probably be akin to not giving people coffee today.

awritawirj• 4 years ago

That's almost refreshing to hear. When I was in the US Navy 2004-2010, pretty much all alcoholism was aggressively swept under the rug.

Per Navy regulations, anyone who gets a DUI is required to attend rehab. We had a Reactor Operator on my submarine who got two DUIs. He requested rehab in writing twice and was twice denied because "ship's schedule does not support". Then he re-enlisted, I can't imagine why. A few weeks after re-enlisting he got a third DUI. His wife divorced him, he attempted suicide, and then he was discharged and was allowed to keep his bonus.

Our Chief of the Boat (equivalent to Command Master Chief or Command Master Sergeant) was an extreme alcoholic and several sailors filed complaints in writing alleging that he showed up to work visibly drunk regularly, always having driven himself to work. The command ignored that too.

Extreme alcoholism, getting black-out drunk multiple nights per week, getting hospitalized for alcohol poisoning once per year, committing drunken assault and/or vandalism and having your division Chief sweep it under the rug and then extort you to re-enlist was common on my ship. I spoke to friends on other ships and it appears that this was the norm throughout the Pacific submarine fleet in 2010. Rotten to the core.

twiddling• 4 years ago

They have been running them a long time. I remember playing them on post in the '80s in (West) Germany

klyrs2• 4 years ago

Horrible idea: require a military id to log in to the slot machine; each person's jackpot is equal to the amount they've sunk into the machines, and they're guaranteed to pay out every 1000 pulls.

Buttons840• 4 years ago

That's like my fair slot machine idea, a slot machine that spreads the winnings out evenly. You put in a dollar and then win 95 cents, every time; fun!

jacobolus• 4 years ago

For practical implementation (less change to manage), the machine should probably take $1.01 or $1.05 and return $1.

The military base version could just take in $1 and return $1.

LanceH• 4 years ago

I'm offering lottery tickets for half off. They are used, but have a higher expected value than the new ones.

klyrs2• 4 years ago

I was kinda aiming for "the methadone of gambling" but I think your idea fits that better than mine.

kube-system3• 4 years ago

That's entirely unrealistic.

No slot machine pays out 95%.

peishang2• 4 years ago

Even more horrible idea: Adjust the payout probability in proportion to the number of enemy combatants that an infantryman has killed.

DonHopkins3• 4 years ago

At the Brainwash laundromat / cafe in San Francisco (RIP) they had a bill changer that took $20 bills and returned quarters, which was quite fun and entertaining to use, sounded spectacularly jingly, earned you lots of attention and accolades from everyone in the room, and gave reliable 1:1 payouts every time. Plus you could have food and coffee and beer and play video games while waiting for your clothes to clean and dry. That should be implemented at every military base.

vikingerik• 4 years ago

Reminds me of a probably-apocryphal story I read somewhere years ago.

"I was in a casino, and saw a doddering old man sitting not at a slot machine but at the change machine. He fed in dollar after dollar, and would cheer and call out 'I won again!' every time it dispensed his quarters. It was harmless, and better he 'play' that than lose at a real slot machine, so I left him alone with his fantasy.

I saw him again the next day. I pointed at the change machine and asked why he wasn't playing that one since it was his favorite yesterday. His reply: 'It was dispensing six quarters for every dollar until they fixed it.' "

nerdponx2• 4 years ago

Almost every laundromat bill changer I've used accepts 20s. I always felt very self-conscious getting so much change at once, but maybe it'd be more fun if it had lights and bells on it.

peishang2• 4 years ago

"Slots are often found on bases where there is precious little to do, like Diego Garcia – a 12-sq.-mile island in the Indian Ocean with a population of just over 4,000 people – where the Navy runs 52 slot machines"

Talk about a captive audience rife for exploitation.

Justsignedup2• 4 years ago

People really desperately need table top rpgs! If they introduce some pathfinder or Warhammer in there oh man the fun these members can have. But then it is an _expense_ not a _income_.

oogali• 4 years ago

Like this? I guess it depends on the base and someone stepping up to organize the game.

https://jblm.armymwr.com/calendar/event/75270

https://www.jbmdl.jb.mil/Quick-Links/Get-Connected-Clubs/

orwin2• 4 years ago

In my country, barracks have "open days" (basically a weekend, once a year i think) where they would present all their clubs and invite external personnel to check out and participate (long-term, not only on those two days). I wanted to try fencing, so i went, and i finished joining the tabletop club (and fencing too). This is what brought me back to tabletops.

Then covid, moved to a city without any barracks close by, so i couldn't continue, but military definitely have tabletop rpgs (and they are very partial with those where battlemaps are easy to set up)

runjake• 4 years ago

These games, along with D&D, were alive and well when I was in the military.

LegitShady• 4 years ago

or you can get them into 40k and take the rest of their money

nacho_weekend• 4 years ago

Anecdotally, my brother in the Air Force had a pretty regular and frequent D&D group in the past 3 years. But I don’t know how widespread that is.

reef84_• 4 years ago

Cheaper to go to slot machines!

red-iron-pine6• 4 years ago

I've been to Diego Garcia. It is boring as hell; about all there is to say. We got in trouble for trying to organize an expedition to secretly catch and eat some of the coconut crabs (which is verboten).

Also played D&D in the service. Most active tabletop gaming group I've ever been in too.

Didn't D&D in DG tho.

isk5172• 4 years ago

According to my buddy the Canadian Navy is absolutely crawling with Warhammer players, apparently being a player has been pretty good for their career.

hangonhn• 4 years ago

Didn't the Prussian general staff basically invent the idea of table top gaming/simulations?

shanebellone3• 4 years ago

It's almost literally death, jail, or slots.

realo• 4 years ago

Presented that way, jail does not look so bad ...

JustSomeNobody• 4 years ago

The officers need a new golf course!

sixothree• 4 years ago

And they use that money to pay for golf courses somewhere nicer? I'm getting a bit grossed out by that thought.

shmde• 4 years ago

US has a naval base so near to Indian peninsula?? Damn never knew about it. Guess big brother likes to be everywhere.

treis• 4 years ago

It's not really near anything. It's in the middle of the Indian Ocean ~1,000 miles from any other significant land mass.

pphysch3• 4 years ago

Don't stop there. Diego Garcia and the surrounding Chagos islands were ethnically-cleansed by a joint American-British operation just 50 years ago [1], to make living-space for this military base.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stealing_a_Nation

aosmith• 4 years ago

Ever heard of the .io TLD? Dig deeper...

kornhole• 4 years ago

800 to a 1000 bases around the world

IncRnd2• 4 years ago

The proximity to India is why there is a US base on a British owned Island.

yamtaddle6• 4 years ago

So near? Might want to double-check that. Indian ocean's big, this isn't terribly close to India.

kart23• 4 years ago

I mean, its also an atoll in paradise. Theres definitely plenty to do there, the navy for some reason has decided to ban surfing and instead put in slot machines.

ceejayoz• 4 years ago

Huh, I had no idea. https://wavelengthmag.com/curious-case-diego-garcia/

I'm guessing surfing risks injuring US military... assets.

passwordoops2• 4 years ago

After getting a dream job on a paradise island, I can tell you how fast it takes to do everything there is to do on that island before the isolation sets in.

I was told the week I landed "there's two type of people: those who immediately fall in love and never leave. Then there's the ones who get island fever after 6 months and never come back... You won't find too many mainlanders who have lived here for very long"

jeltz• 4 years ago

I love swimming so I am sure I will have some fun but atoll in paradise sounds like a place with not much to do, at least not compared to a major city like where I live. And I can swim here too during the summers.

yieldcrv• 4 years ago

sounds like someone that's never taken that tropical sabbatical

Broken_Hippo• 4 years ago

You can play slot machines for more hours than you can surf - and not only that, but you can do it in more types of weather with a lower risk of injury.

Plenty to do there if you are there for a week. 6 months in, those things aren't nearly as neat and you will probably need some other entertainment. Slots wouldn't have been my first (or 10th) choice to offer folks, though.

markus_zhang2• 4 years ago

Can I read books and access computers? Can I break open slot machines to learn how to repair them?

If both are yes then that's a pretty interesting place.

Rebelgecko• 4 years ago

You can bring your own computer but if you want internet you'll have to pay obscene amounts of money for dialup speeds. I've heard that the UK customs officers also take great joy in limiting what kinds of literature and files the soldiers are allowed to import. They confiscate anything they deem obscene (eg Playboy magazines or a hard drive with porn on it) or antisocial (apparently "motorcycle gangs" were a hot topic at one point, so be prepared to say goodbye to your copy of Zen And The Art of Motorcycle Maintenance)

HideousKojima• 4 years ago

Had a co-worker who was stationed there back in his Air Force days. He said one day there was a fire. It was nothing major, but as a safety precaution until it was put out (in case it reached the fuel tanks) they had to evacuate a safe distance from the base, and the only safe distance meant standing out in the shallows on the beach.

kerpotgh• 4 years ago

It sounds like heaven. I would read, go for runs and hang out with my buds.

Oxidation• 4 years ago

Sounds like Heaven, indeed: from the Forever War.

runnerup4• 4 years ago

It would be somewhat less objectionable if the "house" didn't take a cut. There's no good reason for the military to profit off this when they could offer the "entertainment" for free.

ChuckNorris892• 4 years ago

they could offer the "entertainment" for free

But free slot machines aren't "entertaining" though. People get addicted to slot machines, and other forms of gambling, because they make you put skin in the game and so your brain's chemistry goes all over the place when you win or loose giving you various highs. You don't get such highs when everything is free and you have no skin in the game. It gets boring instantly. But once you put your hard earned cash in, then it gets interesting.

lastofthemojito• 4 years ago

The way I read it the military isn't taking that money to buy guns or tanks or whatever - it's the relatively piddly MWR (Morale, Welfare, and Recreation) groups that are profiting, and then using the profits for other MWR activities. From the article:

A Pentagon report in the early 2000s claimed that without the slot machines, the MWR groups would not be able to afford other amenities for military members such as golf courses and family activity centers. DOD spokeswoman Cmdr. Nicole Schwegman echoed that argument, telling NPR the machines "contribute significantly to the non-appropriated fund and many other recreation and entertainment overseas programs."

The military base I've lived near had plenty of such activities - adult sports leagues, an auto skills center, bowling alley, etc. I guess it might not be as ideal as every such activity being self-sustaining in terms of costs, but it doesn't really seem like a scandal for all of the MWR income to go into a big MWR pot to be spent on various activities.

jxramos2• 4 years ago

studies show these slot machines save $250M a year against alternative more expensive forms of entertainment.

lol

undersuit2• 4 years ago

Why are you laughing. That's $250M in entertainment that doesn't need to be shipped to a military base. Assuming it isn't all downloadable media that's a lot of physical goods that doesn't need to be inspected, shipped, and inspected to remote Military bases.

And if you're running the gambling halls it's going to be a lot harder for a soldier to get into a compromising amount of debt.

Besides the $100M a year in "profit" I'd wager these machines generate even more in cost savings.

glitchc• 4 years ago

Less funny if you think about gambling beating drugs as a go-to form of entertainment.

rsj_hn• 4 years ago

Or an audience desperate for some diversion, especially a risk-seeking audience.

But no reason the machines can't just pay out 100% and so offer risk to people who want to buy it in small doses without making money off the troops in aggregate.

Anyways, much better than state run lotteries (which have way worse payout odds than slots).

pmarreck2• 4 years ago

I’ve been to DG for about a month when I was in the USAF. It was the end of 1995 and the Internet had just reached it, which meant I at least had early Internet web access in such a remote location, for free, which was amazing.

But most of that month was admittedly spent waiting for work, reading Memnoch the Devil (RIP Anne Rice), drinking really cheap beer, playing pool and surfing the early Internet (there was possibly some Scorched Earth in there, too!)

Justsignedup2• 4 years ago

Next up: U.S. Military cocaine dealers earn $100M a year from service members.

I was gonna write more, but I fear I might be giving readers ideas and honestly no military needs any more ideas on how to monetize their soldiers.

hooverd• 4 years ago

That's just Fort Bragg.

shanebellone3• 4 years ago

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CIA_involvement_in_Contra_coca...

boomboomsubban4• 4 years ago

The military has traditionally been kind enough to give stimulants to servicemen for free. Cocaine until between the World Wars, amphetamines got phased out in the past few decades, and now mostly modafinil.

watwut4• 4 years ago

A lot of alcohol before.

2OEH8eoCRo05• 4 years ago

As a serviceman I've never heard of this. Do Rip Its count?

_trampeltier• 4 years ago

"overseas", does it mean tax free? Usually there are very high taxes on such machines.

cperciva• 4 years ago

Isn't the Federal government exempt from taxes imposed by the States anyway?

AlbertCory2• 4 years ago

From reading WW II and earlier books: service members' time-honored custom is playing poker. Richard Nixon was reputedly an excellent poker player.

I think I read that the Roman legions played dice games, using knuckle bones from animals.

rippercushions2• 4 years ago

Variants of that are played worldwide, even today especially in Central Asia.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Knucklebones

Uninen• 4 years ago

Here in Finland slot machines (and most types of legalized gambling) are controller by a government-owned nonprofit that distributes the revenue to various charities. I think that's the best way to run these kind of things if they need to exist.

mauvehaus• 4 years ago

In a lot of US states, lottery proceeds go to education. The problem, of course, is that dollars and euros are fungible, and governments can and do reduce the tax contributions to education commensurately.

kube-system3• 4 years ago

Sort of. It really depends. Education funding in the US often comes from several entirely independent sources, with differing constituents, differing motivations, and various rules on allocations. It's not like it's one big bucket with one entity that has the ultimate ability to reallocate.

vintermann• 4 years ago

For a short while, Norway had extremely liberal slot machine laws. They were in every supermarket, post office, anywhere. There was (and is) a state-run gambling monopoly, but slot machines weren't covered by it - they were considered a continuation of Payazzo games, a form of very-low stakes skill-based gambling machines that charities had long been allowed to operate. So charities got to operate slot machines.

Some may say the charities got just as addicted as the gamblers. I remember in particular in a TV debate, where Thorvald Stoltenberg, respected former minister and president of the Norwegian Red Cross, declared that although he realized the harm they caused, he had decided to defend slot machines "no matter what" because they were such an important income source for his organization. He said it as if it was some selfless commitment.

Eventually, though, gambling addiction became a too big and obvious problem to ignore, and the gambling monopoly took over, sharply reducing the numbers of machines and (supposedly) making them less aggressive. There were some concessions to the charities that lost income as a result of it (which, as I recall, screwed over the few charities that had taken a principled stand against slot machines).

umvi• 4 years ago

Here in Finland slot machines (and most types of legalized gambling) are controller by a government-owned nonprofit that distributes the revenue to various charities. I think that's the best way to run these kind of things if they need to exist.

US state governments use the "it's for a good cause" justification all the time as well. But... it's still addictive and exploitive of vulnerable populations (especially lotto)

muti• 4 years ago

In New Zealand you will find slot machines in many pubs and hotels, they are very accessible to the public. They are also operated by charitable foundations and claim they do a net good by donating the profits to the community.

I despise the model just like lotteries, it's a regressive tax and the lions share of profit comes from those with addictions.

abadger9• 4 years ago

I've been to finland a few times, it's crazy to see people play slots at the front/back of the grocery story at 1 pm.

hsbauauvhabzb4• 4 years ago

What’s the thought process as to why they exist? What would actually happen if the government mandated that they were illegal to operate?

In australia, slot machines are controlled by organisations which are effectively white collar gangsters. The NSW organisation is currently suing an ex-employee who worked in anti-corruption and subsequently whistle-blew on unactioned corruption reports, while he’s on his deathbed with terminal cancer.

simlevesque• 4 years ago

What’s the thought process as to why they exist? What would actually happen if the government mandated that they were illegal to operate?
In australia, slot machines are controlled by organisations which are effectively white collar gangsters.

The thought process is that if it wasn't government run, it would be ran by actual gangsters with much less accountability.

rippercushions2• 4 years ago

Context: https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2022/jul/25/clubs...

My "favorite" part, for lack of a better adjective, is how ClubsNSW (the slot machine organization) successfully got a federal court order telling the whistleblower to stop "intimidating, harassing" the poor, innocent ClubsNSW, while at the same time the home of the guy who interviewed the whistleblower gets firebombed, twice!

bena• 4 years ago

This is a complicated problem. I'm sure there are plenty of service members who occasion the slot rooms and fully understand what they're getting into.

And why shouldn't our service members enjoy some of the things they'd be able to at home when possible?

But yeah, it's very bad optics to essentially take their paycheck back. But one of the reasons they are playing the slots are to win money. So if you make it cash neutral, it's really pointless.

And you could instead just set up a free-play arcade. Or even a quarter to help with maintenance costs. But people look at video games and gambling differently. One is for children and one is for adults.

But then again, these people signed up to be told what to do, what to eat, etc. I would say it's fair that the military could say that gambling while enlisted is not allowed and shut down the slot rooms.

DonHopkins3• 4 years ago

I would say it's fair that the military could say that gambling while enlisted is not allowed and shut down the slot rooms.

Then you'd have the right wing whining about how "woke" the military is with their cancel culture, shutting down gambling the same way they shut down homophobia and sexism and racism by integrating and ordering enlisted people to suck it up and follow the military orders and regulations they signed up to follow.

Pigalowda4• 4 years ago

Right wing typically doesn’t support gambling, so getting rid of it would be a good thing to them.

pengaru• 4 years ago

I'm surprised this isn't outcompeted into failure by domestic civilian competition base-adjacent where they can offer far more, ahem, "services", to complement the gambling.

watwut4• 4 years ago

I am sure prostitution does well too.

red-iron-pine6• 4 years ago

Outside of every base there is inevitably a row of pawn shops, tattoo parlors, asian "massage" joints, and one 24-hour pizza place.

Every base has a standing order to avoid all of those under penalty, except the pizza place, where it is discouraged mostly because it's not great pizza.

Diego Garcia, however, is an island in the middle of nowhere with nothing on it, so none of those exist.

kneebonian4• 4 years ago

Here's the thing, a military that isn't regularly exercised quickly falls prey to the iron law of bureaucracy, as Dr. Hugh Nibley once said "Leaders are those who surprise and discomfort the enemy in war time, and rock the boat and upset HQ in peace"

If war isn't regularly and actively being prosecuted the military turns to infighting, the officers that are promoted are promoted because of their ability to suck up and kiss ass, meanwhile the people that get things done, that bruise egos, and deal with things directly end up phased out and pulled down.

Part of the reason WW1 was so horrible wasn't just because of the technological advances, or the environments they fought in but because of how many worthless brass were involved and f**ing things up regularly. Hell France was only saved from falling within a month because their top general went on a spree of firing over half the commanders and replacing them with people that produced results.

In the next substantial military conflict the US faces we will spend a long time losing until we fire most of the people currently in charge and the thinking changes.

As evidence let me point to the continual massive investment into the fighter program. Those advocating the fighter program are the cavalry commanders of the 1910, thinking in an outdated and outmoded way of thinking that they are wedded to, and will continue to rely on and push for despite the fact it is a clearly outdated and obsolete way of thinking.

EDIT:

As noted below Dr. Hugh Nibley was Professor of Ancient Scripture at BYU if you feel that substantially impacts your opinion of this quote.

Invictus02• 4 years ago

The irony of criticizing the F-35 while complaining about armchair generals.

NegativeK• 4 years ago

Hi.

I downvoted you because your comment is a casual insult without bringing anything to the discussion.

wl2• 4 years ago

For context, Hugh Nibley was a prolific apologist for the mainstream Mormon church.

PakG1• 4 years ago

Attack the argument, not the person.

2OEH8eoCRo05• 4 years ago

If experience is exercise, name a more exercised force than the US military.

danans• 4 years ago

Any number of war-torn countries' militaries would meet that criterion, from Afghanistan to parts of Africa.

kneebonian4• 4 years ago

A fair point, and this is one thing we may have on any other country of similar size and standing, but as we've seen with Russia, that only counts if it's been what you've been working for.

Our military is exercised to an extant, but it's also been exercising for fighting asymmetric warfare, and irregular combat, not conventional combat on a battlefield against a comparable enemy. It's like running 3 miles every day in preparation for a marathon, it's something and helps you work out some things, but its going to be very different once the gun fires to start the race.

potta_coffee2• 4 years ago

How many of those experienced personnel stick around to pass on their knowledge? Not nearly enough to have an effective military. We'll find out our true readiness when we face a competent enemy.

bobkazamakis• 4 years ago

The soldiers aren't the avatar; they don't keep state after death.

How do you compare the exercise in Vietnam vs the exercise in Afghanistan? Is there a ratio of how badly beaten they are by people shooting back in flip-flops with soviet era AKs?

swagasaurus-rex• 4 years ago

Whats a better alternative to the fighter program?

kneebonian4• 4 years ago

Drones. Sure you can buy a $22 mil next gen stealth fighter to secure air superiority but I can buy 200 drones that cost $2k for 1/100th of the price, launch them from much closer to the battlefield and good luck shooting all of them down to establish your air superiority. Or even better you send in your fancy fighter/bomber combo, I'm going to blanket the effected air with drones programed to move in an erratic and choatic manner and suddenly I just cost you $22 million for something that I paid $100 for.

Remember the Panzer was a better tank than the Sherman, but it didn't matter because the Sherman was cheaper to build and faster to make.

djmips• 4 years ago

I could see this happening in the Russia / Ukraine conflict. Perhaps Russia will improve over time because of this.

JasonFruit• 4 years ago

Why should we be surprised that the United States military takes advantage of the foolishness of people who gamble? Many of the various states likewise profit from their least wise citizens by running lotteries. It wouldn't be a stretch to argue that government as a whole is just that: gaining power and money at the expense of everyone you can fool into going along with it.

And "services that contribute to resiliency, retention, readiness and quality of life," indeed!

sandworm1012• 4 years ago

Question: Would you rather than service members gamble on military facilities or at the local casino/bar?

I'm not talking about harm reduction per se, ie reducing gambling. I mean would you rather have soldiers gambling/drinking in the controlled environment of a base or out on the town? I've been in situations/deployments where the CO has closed the base, restricted our movements off base to operational only. It really isn't much fun. So I am hesitant to criticize any on-base activity that at least some people enjoy responsibly.

Pigalowda4• 4 years ago

I think they should gamble at the local casino (because there aren’t a lot of those locally forcing service members to have intermittent gambling habits rather than continuous exposure). The ready availability of having it on base at the NEX or whatever creates an easily accessible temptation. For destructive isolating behaviors like gambling I believe there should be no accessibility to it on base and definitely not DoD sponsored.

vkou• 4 years ago

Question: Would you rather than service members gamble on military facilities or at the local casino/bar?

1. The argument that soldiers are going to do drugs anyways isn't a good reason to provide a weekly cocaine ration.

2. I don't think all of these bases have a nearby casino.

3. Lowering the activation energy for going to the slots will increase use of the slots. If I had a magic tap that soda and beer came out of at my house, I'd be drinking more soda and beer. Despite having a corner store on the other side of the street.

The military should be lowering the activation energy for less destructive past-times, instead.

sandworm1012• 4 years ago

> 1. The argument that soldiers are going to do drugs anyways isn't a good reason to provide a weekly cocaine ration.

That happened in Canada. When Canada made pot legal, their military went through a debate about whether it should be sold on bases. They already provide alcohol on bases, even on ships. Why not pot? But I have not heard of any slot machines on Canadian bases.

Invictus02• 4 years ago

The proceeds go right back into paying for other recreational facilities: sounds ok to me. Maybe have a cap of how much you can spend at the casino per period of time?

partiallypro• 4 years ago

I can understand troops wanting to have something to do and the military providing it...but maybe just go with games that have odds that are more even and put the money collected into military pensions? I can see the argument that troops will maybe go stir-crazy or grow homesick without some activities, and you can't have games that remove all possibility to lose (that's not fun) so there has to be a happy medium. Even if they invest in video games, or table games that have less house favoritism. Then putting the money into a pension fund or similar so, even though you -can- lose, you will benefit everyone when you do.

risingsubmarine• 4 years ago

Reminds me of that line in Band of Brothers "Never put yourself in a position where you can take from these men".

josh_fyi• 4 years ago

They are military. They signed up to live under military discipline. So how about imposing on them the discipline of not gambling, at least on base? The Navy has strict rules banning alcohol on ship: strict rules are not impossible

metaphor• 4 years ago

So how about imposing on them the discipline of not gambling, at least on base?

When I wore the uniform, it was handled indirectly with constant reminders that failing to satisfy debt obligations is punishable by Article 134 of the UCMJ.

Some places need extra reminders and discipline though, e.g. Nellis AFB (Las Vegas, NV) and Keesler AFB (Biloxi, MS) are two bases I'm familiar with that come to mind.

structure7• 4 years ago

I won $25 in nickels from a slot machine in Giesen (1998). Turns out it's hard to find a German bank that wants to accept and exchange that. Spent two years feeding it into vending machines on post.

mensetmanusman• 4 years ago

Slot machines are basically a dopamine hit machine. This would be analogous to government supplied recreational drugs.

bastard_op• 4 years ago

Talk about government recycling programs, that's almost like money laundering when what they pay servicemen just comes right back in the form of captive gambling addicts.

mhardcastle• 4 years ago

If the goal is providing entertainment, why not just adjust the payout to be 0 profit?

Y_Y5• 4 years ago

This is how Sega got their start.

glandium• 4 years ago

Tangentially, I recently learned that Sega (of games, consoles, Sonic fame), started as a slot/amusement machines selling business for the US military bases in Hawaii and later Japan, and that the name, Sega, is derived from its original name: "Service Games".

mouse_• 4 years ago

That's amazing, I never knew.

johnwalkr• 4 years ago

I was surprised by this article for this very reason. Sega's predecessor started as an American company that had business in slot machines on military bases in Hawaii, and when slot machines were banned in the US, it bought them up and moved to Japan to American bases in Japan. "Moved" is really simplifying things, there were mergers and split-ups and re-mergers along the way. But in short it became a Japanese company run by Americans in the military sphere and in the 2000s was merged with Sammy, a pachinko machine company.[1]

So Sega started with, and ended up back as a slot machine company.

[1] https://www.ign.com/articles/2009/04/21/ign-presents-the-his...

bluSCALE4• 4 years ago

They'll feel right at home once they're done with active duty since they're basically 2 slot machine shops at every neighborhood intersection.

benlower• 4 years ago

that's enough money to give everyone in the USA a million dollars!

giantg23• 4 years ago

Yes, and they mark up exchange prices for MWR (in the name of not competing with off-base businesses).

pessimizer• 4 years ago

Congress barely dents scourge of hunger in military

Fully 24 percent of active-duty servicemembers recently experienced “low food security,” meaning they sometimes lacked quality meals, according to the latest Pentagon survey of troops in late 2020 and early 2021 — before the recent inflation surge. Of those, 10 percent periodically experienced “very low food security,” meaning they sometimes ate less at mealtime, missed meals entirely or lost weight due to inadequate food intake in the previous year.
Those percentages suggest that 286,800 active-duty servicemembers have had some level of food insecurity of late, and nearly 120,000 of them have sometimes gone hungry recently due to a lack of food, according to senators on the Armed Services Committee. The figures do not count family members of those active-duty personnel. Nor are reservists and their family members included in the tally.

https://rollcall.com/2023/01/13/congress-barely-dents-scourg...

renewiltord• 4 years ago

This is so little money that one can only assume that this is done for morale reasons. The whole damn U.S. military makes only $100 M off this? It isn't worth the revenue at all.

lordfrito2• 4 years ago

So what? Can someone explain what this article is trying to get me outraged at?

State lotteries collect ~$30 billion in revenue a year. If we're supposed to be outraged that the government profits from gambling, shouldn't we talk about that first?

Or is this just another driveby article taking potshots at the US military?

Someone please explain how a right-thinking person is supposed to read this. There's an axe being ground here, not sure what it is.

unregistereddev• 4 years ago

Some people believe that gambling is immoral, and that hosting slot machines or other gambling games is exploitative.

Some people are not necessarily opposed to gambling, but strongly believe the government should take care of military personnel. To them, this may be an example of the government failing to provide more wholesome (or at the very least, less expensive) activities.

Some people are outraged by the amount of money the government spends on the military. To them, this may be an example of the government collecting yet more money from enlisted personnel rather than using their extensive budget to properly fund the "morale, welfare, and recreation" programs.

I suspect the article's intent is to highlight the latter two points. Personally I'm not sure how to feel about it. While I am not opposed to gambling, I do think we need support for managing addictions (including gambling addictions).

stephen_g• 4 years ago

Slot machines are particularly insidious. With a lottery, it's possible to become a problem gambler, or become adicted, sure. But slot machines are designed to hook people. All the images, the sound, the gameplay is designed specifically to psychologically manipulate people, draw people in and basically make them addicted. It's pretty evil really.

lordfrito2• 4 years ago

Agree they're terrible. So lets talk about outlawing slot machines altogether because they're too addictive.

Something tells me a lot more money is made off of slot machines in casinos than on military bases. I just don't see why they're singling out the military in the article.

I guess my point is the article feels like a classic "abc is bad, and xyz does abc, so therefore xyz is bad" type article.

green-salt• 4 years ago

At least in ancient times back in 2004, while I was on Nellis AFB (North Las Vegas, NV) a large part of people stationed there would just go down to the strip or downtown. I remember a number of orientation briefings about addiction counseling but they took on a different tone being in Las Vegas.

aurizon• 4 years ago

Remove the coin collection box = cash goes back to player. It is then a game of statistics and probably the gambling aspect will be gone and the machines made ~~ worthless

U.S. military-run slot machines earn $100M a year from service members

Related Stories