I spent $3k on a Samsung Smart TV and all I got were ads and unwanted content

https://www.zdnet.com/home-and-office/home-entertainment/i-spent-3000-on-a-samsung-smart-tv-and-all-i-got-were-ads-and-unwanted-content/

by ivanvas • 4 years ago

455 391 4 years ago

zdnet.com

jakedata• 4 years ago

I spent 3K on a 65" 4K conference room touchscreen monitor. Rather than having a built in smart TV function it has a dock for a SFF PC.

It lacks a tuner and don't think it does HDR but it does have surprisingly good sound.

pessimizer• 4 years ago

A tuner USB key is like $10. Plug that into the PC.

hdjjhhvvhga2• 4 years ago

I don't understand why anyone would like to connect such a thing to their WiFi. An external device gives you flexibility and control. The built-in firmware gives you ads and tracking.

kitsunesoba3• 4 years ago

Yeah, buy smart TVs for their display panels and image processing, not for their smarts. First thing when setting them up is disabling the wifi and bluetooth and not plugging in ethernet, followed by hooking up an Apple TV 4K/Nvidia Shield/PC.

Also worth factoring ability to update firmare without an internet connection when making a purchase decision. Sony TVs for example typically allow updates via a thumb drive.

equon_2• 4 years ago

Most people do that to use integrated streaming apps. This is less expensive than buying an Apple TV/Chromecast

kitsunesoba3• 4 years ago

The cost difference is marginal unless you're buying bargain bin TVs, though.

scohesc2• 4 years ago

The funny thing too is that a lot of TV/Cable providers' set top boxes _already_ include built-in apps, so now you've got your TV that does Netflix, Hulu, etc. - then you _also_ have your set-top box being able to do the same thing.

It just makes things so much more frustrating when you're providing support for the less technically inclined.

suprjami• 4 years ago

$3k on a TV but won't spend an extra $50 on a Chromecast?

jonnycoder• 4 years ago

I use my Vizio tv for integrated apps. YoutubeTV, Netflix, Paramount+ and Prime Video all work great, except Prime Video will buffer a lot lately but the other apps never do. It's also very easy to enable/disable Viewing Data and Advertising under Menu/Admin & Privacy.

My dad runs Apple TV since his screen is older, and it's marginally better than my Vizio because most of the time YoutubeTV continues where it left off when turning TV back on which is nice.

mattwad• 4 years ago

I like having only one remote with my TV. I get minor anxiety when at other people's houses and they have 3-4 remotes or more, and usually only one person knows what they all do (the one that had to set it all up).

coldtea3• 4 years ago

it's amazing what 21st century can consider an inconvenience...

marssaxman• 4 years ago

With the Roku stick, you can set up the remote to control TV power and volume. I stuck the TV remote on the back of the TV with velcro so it won't get lost, but in ordinary use the Roku remote is all you need.

SSLy• 4 years ago

I have an Apple TV 4k ↔ LG OLED ↔ Soundbar setup, and it's all controlled via the Siri Remote. HDMI CEC seems to just work.

ayngg• 4 years ago

Because the vast majority of people aren't tech savvy enough to care about ads and tracking, ads and tracking everywhere is normalized.

timothyduong• 4 years ago

For my Samsung TV, I connect it to the internet once a year for a firmware/software upgrade.

Outside of that, any TV in my house is connected to an AppleTV. HDMICEC is great.

walrus014• 4 years ago

never, ever give a TV an internet connection, wifi password or dhcp lease.

I realize there are ads on the homescreen of an xbox series x, ps4 pro, ps5, etc but I would much rather deal with those than whatever shoddy operating system TV manufacturers put on their thing.

I have a thousand times more confidence that microsoft and sony will keep their OSes patched and up to date (they have a strong financial/self-interest incentive to do so, for anti piracy reasons) than the junk running on a TV.

OrangeMonkey• 4 years ago

Bought a samsung and a roku tv. I don't know which one it was - but, for one of them, I refused to install internet. And it had a red light that flashed like every 30-60 seconds. I looked up why? "Its the no internet" light and it couldnt be disabled.

I had to cover it up with a sticky note on my nice tv until I finally gave up.

Anti consumer patterns.

Domenic_S2• 4 years ago

Get a roll of gaff tape, I block out a great deal of blinkenlights that way, it's great stuff.

wollsmoth• 4 years ago

My vizio runs so much better without a connection. It used to semi-regularly get into a state where the screen was blank even though the tv was on. Because it was a smart tv, powering it off wouldn't actually power cycle it. I had to pull the power cord to reset it.

Now I use a chromecast plugged into it for streaming. before that I used a ps4.

PreachSoup2• 4 years ago

My previous Vizio tv botched chroma functionality for pc monitor for 2 years before getting it fixed. It doesn't allow downgrade. Never connect to wifi again.

jrib• 4 years ago

my parents' TCL TV would blink a white light at the bottom of the front bezel unless we gave it access to the wifi... :(

etrautmann• 4 years ago

Time for electrical tape or desoldering an LED…

rewgs• 4 years ago

I assume connecting it to an adhoc network that doesn’t have internet access wouldn’t work?

kingrazor4• 4 years ago

One thing I hate is when things like input switching are part of the TV OS. It can turn something that should be fast and easy into something slow and glitchy.

Domenic_S2• 4 years ago

I want to skywrite this comment above Samsung's offices for a year.

I bought their brand-new-tech Quantum Dot OLED. I LOVE the screen, it's outperformed my every expectation... EXCEPT... switching inputs is a nightmare! How is that possible?!?! I still have no idea how to get to an input select screen. I use my Harmony remote to direct-select an input (impossible with the stock remote) or wait for the TV to say, "no signal, choose another input"

I'm completely flabbergasted at how ridiculous it is to do.

cassianoleal9• 4 years ago

things like input switching are part of the TV OS

As opposed to what?

On my LG there's a button for input switching that does only that. It's part of the OS but I don't see how it could be more convenient.

BiteCode_dev2• 4 years ago

+1. I bought a samsung premiere projector, and it's a very good product. But the first thing it did was prompting me for the wifi, and hell no.

It's offline, plugged to a real computer that has internet access and I skip the projector home page as quickly as I can to get to the laptop mirrored displays.

Alex39172• 4 years ago

never, ever give a TV an internet connection, wifi password or dhcp lease.

The problem is that it’s becoming unavoidable. Right now the only oven with a good Consumer Reports rating requires a Wi-Fi connection, so it’s either get that model or another one with a significantly worse rating.

walrus014• 4 years ago

I will build a fire pit with cinder blocks in my back yard and roast hunks of meat using a sharpened stick before I put my oven on a wifi network.

InitialLastName• 4 years ago

Or find a reviewer who values the same things you do?

I have to think there's an acceptable oven on the market that doesn't have a Wi-Fi requirement. I bought a GE Adora oven a few years ago and it has been exactly as perfectly uncomplicated an oven as I've ever wanted; it was even easy to replace the handle when I broke it off in a moment of poor judgement. It looks like those are still available, and don't require any Wi-Fi access.

account-5• 4 years ago

What for? Genuine question, what reason does an oven need an internet connection for?

If I bought an oven and it required an internet connection I'd be getting my money back.

cbozeman• 4 years ago

Right now the only oven with a good Consumer Reports rating requires a Wi-Fi connection, so it’s either get that model or another one with a significantly worse rating.

I guarantee you Wolf, Sub-Zero, and Viking do not require Wi-Fi connections.

Melatonic7• 4 years ago

Or buy a commercial oven. Or used

Schroedingersat• 4 years ago

Then the consumer reports rating is obviously wrong.

solraph• 4 years ago

Right now the only oven with a good Consumer Reports rating requires a Wi-Fi connection

Is this some weird American only thing? I keep hearing on HN how everything requires wifi now, but in Australia, I couldn't find any major oven that had wifi at all, and only 14 out of 504 fridges on a popular appliances site (Appliances Online) had wifi at all.

I'd be interested to know what the options look like in other countries.

Kerrick2• 4 years ago

On the contrary, I absolutely love the WebOS that came on my TV, and I use it (connected to the internet) regularly. I've often found myself watching YouTube and even browsing NPR and HN (using a TV remote as the only input device) on the TV rather than using my laptop, desktop, or even my iPhone. It's also open source [0] and you can develop your own software for it [1] without needing to submit that software to their app store [2] (though you can do that too [3]).

[0] https://www.webosose.org

[1] https://webostv.developer.lge.com

[2] https://webostv.developer.lge.com/develop/getting-started/de...

[3] https://webostv.developer.lge.com/distribute/app-approval-pr...

RajT882• 4 years ago

I'll be shopping for a new big TV in the near future, and I am an HP TouchPad owner as well.

How difficult has nerfing the ads been on a WebOS TV? That is the only thing keeping me away from an LG -- I want a TV which I don't have to fight.

robswc2• 4 years ago

There's ads on consoles now? Wow... I feel like people would not have tolerated that 10 years ago.

I remember reading memes about how you have to "pledge" to the Mountain Dew or else you can't turn your console on... and that was comically exaggerated but we're certainly getting close...

walrus014• 4 years ago

PLEASE DRINK A VERIFICATION CAN

falcolas• 4 years ago

Corporate slogan of the 21st century: Why settle for some of your customer's money when you can get all of your customer's money (and monetize their data too)?

Microtransactions, ads, selling customer usage data, up-front costs, PPV, subscriptions... I'm shocked we as customers can actually afford to obtain and use any of these devices anymore.

walrus014• 4 years ago

this is what happens when you let MBAs run amok

manuelabeledo• 4 years ago

Can't wait for business schools to discover that concepts like "consumer loyalty" and "user experience" are quite intermingled.

BiteCode_dev2• 4 years ago

You gotta get this unlimited growth somewhere. Remember HN comments tell you it's not a zero sum game, you can innovate!

Tenoke• 4 years ago

A lot of things are sold cheaper than they would be otherwise (including at a loss) because they can make part of the money through ads/add-ons instead. It's customers who have shown they prefer those cheaper on the face of it options rather than those with much bigger up-front cost (which still exist but have been mostly left to business products since only there are enough of their customers fine with it).

RajT882• 4 years ago

Yep, this I think is implicit in the author's frustration. He didn't buy the cheapest possible TV, he bought something near the top of the range. Premium customers deserve premium treatment.

I would wager the story is the same for the absolute most expensive TV's as well.

What I haven't seen here in this thread yet is the usual suggestion of looking into "Digital Signage" displays, which in addition to being "dumb", some of them come with a place to chunk in an RPI board!

marcosdumay• 4 years ago

I doubt this.

Even more because the cheaper products have less lucrative users, and are way less likely to include ads than the most expensive ones.

titzer3• 4 years ago

are sold cheaper than they would be otherwise

They are absolutely not selling $3k TVs at a loss.

tarakat• 4 years ago

It's customers who have shown they prefer those cheaper on the face of it options rather than those with much bigger up-front cost

I question the "much" - I'm sure the price difference isn't as big as those who are spying on us would have us believe (and coincidentally they are also keeping their costs secret).

But more importantly, how can you attribute this to "preference", when the hypothetical price difference is front and center, while the ads and spying are hidden, and there is not an equivalent TV without the ads and spying being sold next to the ad-infested one at an unsubsidized price?

hakfoo• 4 years ago

This would be much more interesting if they had to quantify it.

When Amazon sold the "ad-supported" Kindle, with a corresponding full-price unit, it made a pretty direct statement of the lifetime value they expected out of advertising.

I suspect both consumers and investors would be fascinated to know how much value the manufacturer expects to get out of these post-sale bleeds. Would their investors be comfortable with a firm that's willing to compromise their brand equity on halo-tier products to extract an expected $35 lifetime ad revenue on a $3000 set?

danbr• 4 years ago

I run a pihole on my network for exactly this reason. The amount of network traffic the TV attempts, even when on standby or watching over-the-air broadcast is astonishing.

titzer3• 4 years ago

It's a veritable dystopia with these little snitches.

matbilodeau• 4 years ago

I approve, PiHole does a great job at removing ads and other unwanted content.

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=30655479

Melatonic7• 4 years ago

Unless it pins the IP of a DNS server and does DoH

timbit423• 4 years ago

The vast majority of those are probably re-tries.

switch007• 4 years ago

All Samsung devices are trash these days

IndigoIncognito• 4 years ago

facts, after the Bixby button on the S8 above, everything went downhill

scohesc2• 4 years ago

It's so frustrating. For some consumers, you're dropping multiple paychecks on a TV that you want to just _USE_ - but you can't because Samsung, LG, whoever decided to take money from various companies and shove their garbage advertising down your throats and you can't disable it.

I don't feel like browsing various commercial signage websites for TV's that don't have any advertising in and I don't feel like we should be punished for paying more for this either!

I just want a TV I can turn on - and it doesn't need to load an operating system - it doesn't need to delay displaying actual TV because the computer needs to reach out and upload telemetry, download advertisements, and take pictures of what you watch. It just needs to take an HDMI/RCA/whatever ports, and output the signal on the screen.

There's no expectation of privacy anymore in society - some company somewhere has eked out a slice of the market share, and are pounding their customers with ways to extract more wealth out of you while you sit and take it - the 2 or 3 second delays eating up your life for advertisements you'll never buy things from.

It's depressing - I just want a TV. A plain TV. I'd rather not pay more for a commercial display-tier TV that doesn't have any of this smart crap built in.

potatototoo99• 4 years ago

There are plenty of plain TVs around though, just like there are plain operating systems, plain phones, etc but consumers still give their money to Samsung, Microsoft, Google, etc. Most people don't care, you are not the target audience.

coldtea3• 4 years ago

So, what would be some of that plenty "plain" models with good quality and comparable price?

dleslie2• 4 years ago

Got any Amazon/BestBuy/Costco links for a 65" 4k "plain" TV that lacks advertisements?

equon_2• 4 years ago

If you are comfortable with configuring DNS settings you can use NextDNS, it works with LG smart TVs. Pi-hole is an alternative but it is a bit more complicated to setup.

benhurmarcel• 4 years ago

I used it with a Samsung TV and it worked well, but now the TV completely ignores the DNS setting that's configured in its network settings.

lizardactivist• 4 years ago

Just go into the menues and turn it off.

ceejayoz2• 4 years ago

There's no "no ads" option in the settings.

You can turn off interest-based ads, but then you just get less-targeted ads.

pianoben• 4 years ago

When I was a kid, the most frustrating technical challenge around TVs was how to get the VCR clock to stop flashing. How the world has changed since then!

jabroni_salad2• 4 years ago

Your parents never asked you to set up a timed recording on that VCR eh

anotherevan• 4 years ago

Twice a year, every time daylight savings changed, I had to go over to my great aunt's place and update the clock on her VCR...

mikestew4• 4 years ago

Just give me my Netflix, Disney+, Amazon Prime, HBO Max,...

All of which are available on an AppleTV, and I assume other less-intrusive devices. TFA comes to that conclusion in the last paragraph, but just in case anyone didn't make it that far. And then, as everyone on this page is going to say, never let that TV anywhere near a network connection. Why anyone would go to the effort of dicking with a pi-hole cat-and-mouse game is beyond me. Plug in a box, remove network access to the TV, watch your shows.

...even if it duplicates all the streaming app functionality in the TV itself.

I don't know, Samsung's fuckery aside, does anyone seriously think that using the duplicate app on the Samsung is going to be anywhere nearly as pleasant a UX as the AppleTV? IOW, use the AppleTV (or Roku, or whatever) regardless just for the better experience.

nevi-me• 4 years ago

We have a 45" from ~2013, I used to connect it to the internet in the early days when I didn't have a Chromecast. The UI is underwhelming, and the only times I've used the smart TV features was when a streaming device wasn't working.

I've gone through 4 streaming devices, and I think that even if I get a new TV, I'm likely to continue with streaming devices, unless that TV runs stock Android TV. Even then, it'll reach a point where the firmware is no longer updated.

gw994• 4 years ago

Yeah good luck with that. I did the same. Then all the streaming devices stopped working suddenly. Turns out that there was suddenly an HDCP compatibility issue which obsoleted the TV instantly.

ceejayoz2• 4 years ago

At some point, I fully expect the TVs are going to refuse to work after a month of no internet.

mikestew4• 4 years ago

At which point I'm personally content to go read a book (on my network-connected Amazon Kindle, of course). But I'm one of dozens, unfortunately for the rest of you because Samsung won't care about cranky old men and their books, they don't spend money anyway.

aaronbrethorst• 4 years ago

Why anyone would go to the effort of dicking with a pi-hole cat-and-mouse game is beyond me

Fun way to pass the time for some folks, I assume.

cassianoleal9• 4 years ago

Also the cat-and-mouse mostly happens at the block list level. I just set it up once and my LG TV never shows any ads.

mattmanser• 4 years ago

One remote is inherently better than two remotes. It's objectively less hassle.

The apps are actually mostly identical from experience.

I actually use a PS4 at the moment, and it occasionally forces me to update before I can use the TV app, so even more hassle.

petesergeant2• 4 years ago

One remote is inherently better than two remotes. It's objectively less hassle.

My Apple TV can turn my TV on and off though, so I rarely need to use the TV remote

domy• 4 years ago

I have an AppleTV connected to my Samsung TV, and almost never use the Samsung remote. The AppleTV remote's on/off button switches everything together (through CEC I believe) so in everyday usage I only ever need a single remote.

gffrd• 4 years ago

Unless, of course, the one remote is garbage, and the hassle of working the system with one remote is greater than with two.

jiggawatts2• 4 years ago

The apps are actually mostly identical from experience.

What's bizarre is that the YouTube app on a Google Android TV is markedly worse than YouTube on the Apple TV. For example, switching Google accounts doesn't work properly and takes more clicks even when it works!

Similarly, subtitles in several apps in Google Android TV have eye-searing maximum HDR white brightness, and this cannot be altered. The NetFlix app for example has this issue. On Apple TV the NetFlix app subtitles use a normal level of brightness.

The Google TV UI is 1080p upscaled to 4K so it is blurry. It's also so dark that it is difficult to see during the daytime. This cannot be adjusted. The Apple TV interface in comparison is gorgeous.

My impression is that Google doesn't have a single employee in their entire organisation that cares about product quality or consumer needs in any sense. They just want to control televisions to shove their ads down your throat. They have no business interest in anything else. The second they achieved control and could start selling ads, the mission was accomplished. The rest doesn't matter.

Expecting anything else at this point is a lot like a battered wife saying "deep down he loves me".

paxys• 4 years ago

I exclusively use my Fire Stick remote. Don't even know where the original TV one is.

Terretta3• 4 years ago

What's the second remote for? ATV remote drives everything.

Even if you have, say, an PS5 or Xbox Series X plugged to same TV, the ATV remote screen button causes TV to take over from console and turning on a console controller causes it to take over from ATV.

Assuming you turned on all the CEC stuff anyway.

tssva4• 4 years ago

", does anyone seriously think that using the duplicate app on the Samsung is going to be anywhere nearly as pleasant a UX as the AppleTV?"

I in general think the Apple UX experience is pretty awful across all their products with Apple TV being the worse of all. I have used the Samsung interface and it is bad but I still dislike the Apple TV more.

pb74• 4 years ago

You're probably in the minority with that opinion. Apple UX is wildly renowned for being great and Apple TV is no worse than any of the competitors. The TV input interface is just awkward in general but being able to use an iPhone to automatically fill in passwords, authenticate purchases, or just use as a second remote is smooth as butter. It's another example of how Apple products are better together within the ecosystem. But even if you don't have an iPhone, the newest remote is extremely good. One of the best products they've made in recent years.

rewtraw• 4 years ago

I can't really imagine what you believe is so bad about the Apple TV UX. It's a basic grid of available apps and videos, with an easy swipe to access video settings (subtitles, language, etc). Not complicated at all.

Most streaming boxes have the same basic interface... my usual issue is when one is laggy (e.g. TV built-in, Roku, Chromecast, etc). The Apple TV is buttery smooth, fast to scrub through videos, and never feels limited by its CPU.

OneLeggedCat2• 4 years ago

As you can see from the other replies, you are wrong to not love the locked-down Apple way of doing things from the bottom of your heart. Science has proven that people who are given options are less happy than those who never had options to begin with.

I too am in the wrong group, like you. I was finally talked into becoming an owner of an Apple device for the first time in my life about a year ago (an iPhone), and I have hated its interface with increasing passion every day since. I hate getting rid of electronics before the natural end of their lives, because I'm cheap and I'm environmental and I'm obstinate, but I may actually do it in this case.

But anyway it is all right, everything is all right, the struggle is nearly finished.

That feeling of absolute helplessness when trying to deal with any issue on your Apple device, you must embrace. It is by design. Your helpless feeling will some day be transformed into a warm feeling of being nannied, which will eventually feel maternal, and that will eventually become love.

We will win the victory over ourselves, and we will love Big Brother Apple.

autoexec4• 4 years ago

IOW, use the AppleTV (or Roku, or whatever) regardless just for the better experience.

I've never used AppleTV. Does it come with ads and a bunch of data collection too? Roku collects massive amounts of data and has ads. For example:

"Roughly twice per second, a Roku TV captures video “snapshots” in 4K resolution. These snapshots are scanned through a database of content and ads, which allows the exposure to be matched to what is airing. For example, if a streamer is watching an NFL football game and sees an ad for a hard seltzer, Roku’s ACR will know that the ad has appeared on the TV being watched at that time. In this way, the content on screen is automatically recognized, as the technology’s name indicates. The data then is paired with user profile data to link the account watching with the content they’re watching." (https://advertising.roku.com/resources/blog/insights-analysi...)

Melatonic7• 4 years ago

NextDNS is blocking a CRAP ton of Roku tracking for me. Very successfully. And I never get a single advertisement either!

cstejerean• 4 years ago

I only exclusively use AppleTV and have for a number of years. No ads, and you're asked whether you want to share data for analytics on setup (like any apple device).

I'm not aware of any intrusive data collection like screenshots you mention even if you do opt in to share data.

NaturalPhallacy4• 4 years ago

Does it come with ads and a bunch of data collection too?

Even with AppleTV+ it contains ads for other content on other services that you have to pay for. You might be able to buy it through AppleTV and watch it there I guess. I don't know I've never tried.

alistairSH• 4 years ago

The main menu/home page does not serve ads. It just lists your installed apps.

Using the Apple TV app (which aggregates listings from most services, Netflix being the notable exception) will list shows on services you might not already pay for. But, you don’t have to use the Apple TV app - you can just go straight to the apps you know you want.

bitL• 4 years ago

My Apple TV is happily showing me ads when watching Amazon Prime Video. So it's up to the app anyway - if Amazon wants to bundle LOTR:ROP with ads, they will do it on any box/platform.

samtheDamned• 4 years ago

This post is more about ads in the ui itself, on top of the individual apps where they already pay more to avoid ads

skizm• 4 years ago

My next "TV" is just going to be a conference room monitor. Dell has some for like around $1K for a 55 inch and $4.3k for a 75 inch. Not sure about other companies, but my experiences with Dell have always been positive so I'm okay paying a bit of a premium absent better alternatives.

cantrevealname• 4 years ago

The sentiment here on HN is to never connect the TV to the Internet and instead use a digital media player or external streaming device. I wholeheartedly agree. But then several people mentioned wanting to update the firmware. If you'll never connect it to the Internet, then you should never update the firmware either. It goes against conventional wisdom, but updating the firmware in this situation is more likely to cause problems than to bring you desired improvements.

The firmware update might have stricter DRM controls; it could have a tricky new way to exfiltrate data out via your streaming box; maybe the firmware update itself contains some static ads; perhaps in the near future we'll have public wifi or free Google community wifi, and the new firmware will have the smarts to use that and bypass your wifi.

And these days, once you update the firmware, you often cannot revert back to earlier firmware.

worble• 4 years ago

It goes against conventional wisdom

Does it? So long as it's not connected to the internet, and generally works, then why would you want to? Whats the risk?

mikestew4• 4 years ago

I stay on top of device firmware updates in order to stay current on security patches, lest bad folks come crawling through the connection. I assume that's the "conventional wisdom" spoken of here. But if the TV never goes anywhere near a network...

If it's not a networked device, then the FW update better have enhancements that benefit me, the user, and not Samsung. Otherwise, GTFO with your crab bucket of new bugs.

nsxwolf• 4 years ago

Firmware updates can bring image quality improvements, hardware compatibility fixes, all sorts of stuff beyond the built-in streaming apps.

agilob• 4 years ago

Why even buy a TV then, why not a PC screen or a projector?

PreachSoup2• 4 years ago

Because if u want the best oled panel as pc screen, you have to get a tv

sgtfrankieboy2• 4 years ago

Because a 32" monitor is small for a TV? and a projector has tons of downsides?

The solution is to buy a commercial TV used in retail environments.

izacus• 4 years ago

Because those tend to not support features people want from their TV - related to DRM, software, connectivity and form factor.

smt88• 4 years ago

The sentiment here on HN is to never connect the TV to the Internet

Appallingly, this isn't enough to stop the ads. Many TVs will proactively scan for open networks and connect to them.

midasuni• 4 years ago

Do you have links to blogs that show this happening, I see plenty of hearsay, but I know my LG doesn’t attempt to my honeypot wifi, I’d love to see proof.

gw994• 4 years ago

You can crack the things open and unplug the wireless module usually.

If the TV stops working then, well you solved the problem anyway :)

worldofmatthew• 4 years ago

Could that not get their owner arrested for stealing WI-FI?

tpxl• 4 years ago

perhaps in the near future we'll have public wifi or free Google community wifi, and the new firmware will have the smarts to use that and bypass your wifi.

Xfinity WiFi has been around for at least 8 years. Amazon sidewalk has been around for over a year. Wanna bet those are or will be used by your smart TV producers to connect them to the internet via wifi?

tenebrisalietum5• 4 years ago

What makes me think this will never happen is that

- Open Wi-Fi networks are a thing of the past. There hasn't been any around me in a residential area for a long time now. Businesses and workplace lobbies, more likely, though.

- No one is going to just give Samsung free Internet except the hapless consumer by supplying Wi-Fi credentials.

- Samsung might make a deal with providers, but it would have to have unique credentials embedded in its OS and firmware, and I doubt Samsung has the ability to keep that totally secure.

Think about it. If you could get free, anonymous Internet with credentials in a Samsung TV, crackers would be all over that - they'd be searching every crook and nanny for exploits, desoldering NAND and sniffing busses for encryption keys, connecting with Chinese friends to get original datasheets, etc.

Even if Samsung embedded an LTE/5G SIM, eSIM, whatever, it would be hacked to bits. "Get model X of samsung TV, get free Internet with this Linux application". It's not realistic for there to be a network connection that you don't know about, pay for, and have your name attached to.

Of course the p2p network interface that shows up on the Netflix diagnostic screen is concerning, though.

Now if cellular providers start selling TVs, such as AT&T, Verizon, etc. bundling Internet with them, then it can happen.

asdfk-122• 4 years ago

This is good advice. I kept my 4k Vizio offline until updating the firmware on a whim. The update broke the ability to run 1080p@60hz from my PC, making it effectively useless for normal use. The annoying part about the panel is that it was advertised as 4k but only works at 30hz at that resolution. Cheap, so should have figured.

p1necone• 4 years ago

It might be supported but non obvious, some TVs only support 4k60 through one of the HDMI ports.

It could also be a cable issue, although I believe the option usually shows up on cables that dont support it and only fails once you try to switch.

staticman2• 4 years ago

I'd check reddit and avsforum.com to see if anyone has encountered that issue with your model and come up with a fix.

thirdsun2• 4 years ago

I find that hard to believe. This is most likely an issue with your GPU or cable/port used.

WhyNotHugo• 4 years ago

Not a TV, but my monitor is 3440x1440. However, it only supports 30Hz at that resolution over HDMI since it has an older HDMI version. It only supports 3440x1400 at 60Hz over DisplayPort.

So, if your TV has any other inputs, might want to try those too.

shaboinkin• 4 years ago

I learned this with my router. I updated the firmware thinking it was the smart thing to do, security fixed and all that, but instead I was greeted with ads for their other products and them wanted to shove their stupid phone app in my face to interact with the router. I then installed OpenWRT and said nuts to using proprietary router firmware.

EastSmith2• 4 years ago

I am in a search for Wi-Fi 6 router, can you please name the company I should avoid?

derefr• 4 years ago

The problem is that we're at a point in the evolution of TVs where robust support for HDMI-CEC (especially in combination with ARC/eARC) isn't guaranteed; but might be something you can get later through a firmware update.

When you finally decide to shell out for a sound bar, and after hooking it up, your TV now suddenly takes 30 seconds to flicker to life from sleep, you'll really want that firmware update.

(It's similar to where we were ~5 years ago with motherboards and NVMe boot support. The motherboard had the M.2 socket; but whether the NVMe device showed up in the boot options was up to chance. Often it'd only work in legacy mode but not UEFI mode. But, after a few-months-later motherboard firmware update, things would begin to work the way you'd expect.)

sgtnoodle7• 4 years ago

Firmware updates may resolve HDMI compatibilities, though, and in my mind it's always worth the risk even if there's a 10% chance of improvement because HDMI reliability is terrible.

When I mounted my TV, I embedded a single HDMI cable, a single cat5e cable, and a single optical cable in the wall. Conduit wasn't an option due to the age and construction of the wall, so changing it would require power tools and drywall mud.

I have a sound bar rather than a receiver because it makes my wife happy. The sound bar works best with ARC. Optical works too, but power and volume isn't synchronized.

I have an NVIDIA shield mounted behind the TV because the TV's software stack got too lethargic, and the TV's built-in decoder has silicon bugs that break video in Netflix, and break surround sound in everything but Netflix.

Surprisingly, everything works reliably about 95% of the time. It's unfortunate that I consider that a win. I just added a 4-1 HDMI splitter with ARC passthrough in order to get a Blu-ray player back in the mix, and it was boring!

warble• 4 years ago

Wow, never once ever had an issue with HDMI, although I only go 4K at most. I never even considered it a possibility.

OJFord• 4 years ago

But if you're not experiencing a problem with it..?

Fair enough if you have a compatibility bug it might fix maybe it's worth a shot, but until/unless that happens it's not that compelling is it?

pseudosavant2• 4 years ago

Obviously most users won't be able to do this, but this is exactly the type of reason I use OpenWRT on my RPi-based router. I have a firewall rule that prevents the TV from communicating with anything in the WAN zone. I can still have the TV on the Wi-Fi and still use features like Airplay.

I disable the firewall rule if I want to try updating the TV firmware.

danielheath2• 4 years ago

That breaks the built in chromecast, right (since the TV is the one fetching the stream), but I suppose you could plug in a regular chromecast dongle if that matters to you.

lifeisstillgood2• 4 years ago

QQ: how do you replace the ISP router - my cable provider clT out refused to give me the PPP / etc details or I have to go find an RPi with adsl io.

I guess I can solve it but any pointers gratefully rec d

asciimov• 4 years ago

Sometimes firmware updates are necessary. I've got a Tcl tv that had HDR issues out of the box that were fixed by an updated firmware.

roody15• 4 years ago

Hmm I like just buying 4k displays with no smart features at all. 65 sceptre works great.. is just a display (does need a sound bar as built in speakers are poor).

No need to fight against your device IMO.

jakeinspace• 4 years ago

Sure, but that’s not a very high-end panel. When Samsung and LG make almost all the best panels, it’s tricky to avoid if you aren’t willing to sacrifice picture quality.

dn35002• 4 years ago

I had a Panasonic TV about ten years ago that refused to play any content off my home server unless it could talk to its own servers over the internet first.

clouddrover• 4 years ago

The sentiment here on HN is to never connect the TV to the Internet

Once 5G is cheap enough the TVs will come with built-in 5G in order to always be connected.

cpeterso2• 4 years ago

Or a mesh network of TVs. Your TV might not be connected to the internet, but your neighbor’s neighbor’s neighbor’s TV might be!

badrabbit• 4 years ago

I have an untrusted segment of my network I connect my tv to. If I streamed from something else, I would have to put that device also in an untrusted segment and dedicate it to that task but that means more time spent admining a device that no one is paying me to admin.

brokenmachine4• 4 years ago

I have my router set to disallow any connection from the TV to WAN.

That way I can still use its inbuilt apps to play from my NAS, but it can't talk to outside.

synicalx• 4 years ago

the new firmware will have the smarts to use that and bypass your wifi.

Easy fix for that - disconnect the antenna wires for whatever your TV is using for wifi.

challenger-derp• 4 years ago

So far, my experience with Samsung products is that they're really badly put together in my experience. In the past, I've had multiple Samsung Note Smartphones (changed every 2-3 years because they would stop functioning), two Samsung smart TVs (latest one that's still in use is one whose wifi module stopped functioning after a firmware update), and a Samsung 27-inch monitor (unstable connectivity to computer).

All the Samsung products were poor experiences one way or another.

I've replaced my last Samsung Note with an (my first) iPhone (that has lasted 6-7 years since and is still going!); and replaced the monitor with a Dell one (none of my current or previous Dell & Philips monitors ever gave issues!).

Hearing how some Samsung TVs now comes with ads feels like a new low for the user experience. I'm personally avoiding Samsung products until things change.

sethammons• 4 years ago

I'm stuck in a similar boat. Expensive TV now trying to steel my attention when I turn it on because my 12yo thought they were being helpful by connecting to the internet. Was just thinking about trying a factory reset. 30s of "look at our apps" followed by 30s "update your software." I love the picture quality and HATE the "smart" features.

squiffsquiff• 4 years ago

This has been discussed previously and one of the major issues is that many devices require internet connectivity to complete initial setup before they can be used.

qzx_pierri• 4 years ago

A piHole fixed issues I had with my Samsung smart TV. No more ads in the homescreen, and there’s a way to disable analytics deep into the TV’s setting menu.

senectus1• 4 years ago

I have a fair amount of success just using a pihole to block unwanted behaviour

YeBanKo• 4 years ago

And that sentiment is soon going to be obsolete, once 5G is everywhere and your smart TV can connect to the internet without asking for your wifi password.

dokka• 4 years ago

I own this tv, and I had it connected to the internet for a short while. Not only does it have ads everywhere, but the menu is SLOW. Taking it off the internet not only got rid of the ads, but also made menu navigation faster.

fxtentacle• 4 years ago

... plus they typically spy on you.

Like the TV will take a screenshot of what video you're watching via HDMI and upload that for content ID. Or it'll turn on the microphone to listen in on what you say.

Samsung calls that shit "Viewing Information Services". I guess because it informs their headquarters of what you are viewing.

kungito• 4 years ago

Somewhat related, ever since I upgraded from old Chromecast to Google TV I'm having issues simply casting from HBO Max or Netflix. First I need to cast once, it would turn on the TV and open the annoying Google TV "app browser". Then I'd have to stop casting and start casting again to actually enter the app I want. Maybe my stick has some hardware problems and/or I'm paranoid but things like these feel like they are just trying to get me to use the Google remote and their app so that they can show me ads and recommend other streaming services (of course Amazon Video is always the first app offered eveb though I never used it).

alfiedotwtf• 4 years ago

Funny, I got a Samsung TV which comes with Samsung TV+ which is their internet streaming service for free. Although I'm fortunately enough to not get ads everywhere (hopefully this doesn't change), the channel are actually pretty good.

sliken2• 4 years ago

Queue a zillion posts about wanting dumb TVs.

My suggestion is buy a Roku, don't give the TV an IP address, and run Netflix, Amazon Prime, Plex, Hulu, and whatever you want out of one of the biggest channel catalogs out there on the Roku. It's way nicer remote, supports RF (so no pointing at the TV), and even supports using earphones (BT or wired from the remote).

alphabettsy2• 4 years ago

Roku does tons of phoning home, has ads and analytics to see what you’re watching afaik. Using PiHole shows tons of unexpected traffic.

sliken2• 4 years ago

I don't deny it, but I don't see ads.

xienze2• 4 years ago

So put it on a VLAN with no egress. Smart TVs are annoying but there’s ways around it.

kikokikokiko• 4 years ago

Just plug your laptop to an HDMI port, and use a wireless mouse/keyboard set. I've been doing this for over 10 years, and since 2020 I'm also working from home. Nothing beats a 70 inch "display", my workspace never felt better than on my TV. Using the TV remote to consume content is soooo annoying, and not having the ability to block anything you want (i.e. using Ublock Origin) are absolute deal breakers to me. It surprises me that the average HN user doesn't do the same as I do. TVs are just glorified PC monitors, nothing more. No internet for them.

pipeline_peak• 4 years ago

I’ve been using Chromecast for 7 years now. A lot of these built in UIs are a pretty miserable experience to muck around in.

To me, your phone is the only thing that should be controlling your TV or sound system. It’s nice, it’s clean, and I don’t have multiple remotes to flop between.

Who wants to deal with gimpy little Linux OS’s built into their tv? They’re getting too smart in a hyper 1980’s sort of way. They provide far more than anyone asked, my TV doesn’t need a browser. I can’t help but think TVs would be cheaper without them, but built in smart boxes are so run of the mill now that I’m sure it’s at most $50 extra.

Incase I come off as a luddite, I think smart ovens are a great idea.

yread• 4 years ago

TVs also seem to consume way more power. I have 48" full hd Sony from 2016 that consumes max 58W. None of the TVs on the market come even close, some consume 3x as much! What happened? Is 4K really that inefficient?

amiga-workbench• 4 years ago

Potentially more backlight power draw for HDR? But yeah, generally it takes more power to push 4x as many pixels.

Melatonic7• 4 years ago

OLED in general takes more power. But those are rookie numbers compared to my 2013 plasma :-)

gw994• 4 years ago

I left my Tizen based Samsung with my ex wife when we got divorced. This was a subtle troll because I am finally free of the fucking thing and she's not.

The last decade of ownership has been hell. Slow laggy equipment, HDCP problems, working but forcibly obsoleted hardware, bugs galore and ads stuffed in your face.

I now no longer own a television and will never own one again.

Waterluvian2• 4 years ago

Nobody deserves that, you awful awful person. ;)

gw994• 4 years ago

Oh she deserved it. And the HP windows 10 laptop with 64Gb eMMC storage.

bogwog• 4 years ago

Besides complaining on the internet, what can consumers do about this? All the TV brands do the same thing, and those that don't simply haven't gotten around to pushing out the firmware update that enables ads.

CharlesW• 4 years ago

Besides complaining on the internet, what can consumers do about this?

If you're willing to pay a bit more, you can buy commercial TVs/displays.

Amazon lists them under "Digital Signage > Commercial TVs & Displays", for example.

shahbaby• 4 years ago

Vote with your wallet.

acchow• 4 years ago

In my experience, Samsung TV's are atrocious garbage. LG has been great for me tho

timbit423• 4 years ago

Everything Samsung is garbage.

derflundgren• 4 years ago

Just wait till ATSC 3.0. Then you will really be bombarded by ads.

timbit423• 4 years ago

Are you referring to ads pulled in through the air?

legitster2• 4 years ago

We've had a Roku TV for years and have been extremely happy with it.

The UI is great and it's nice to have everything right there without having to work for it. And as someone without cable, I even come to enjoy some of the internet channels they offer.

My takeaway would be manufacturers do not do good user software. This is true whether it's tvs or cars or fridges.

maxwell_smart• 4 years ago

It's pretty annoying too that you spend $3k, and Samsung got probably all of $150 to serve ads to you in perpetuity.

warrenmiller• 4 years ago

Hmm..I would have more sympathy if the article didn't include an advert to buy an AppleTV "ZDNet Recommends: Apple TV 4K" - $179 at Apple

hparadiz• 4 years ago

Sony TVs are better.

petesergeant2• 4 years ago

Hope the EU regulates this so I can -- at least -- import a TV from somewhere that doesn't have this shit

titzer3• 4 years ago

Consider getting a digital projector instead. I got a relatively cheap one (Dr J mini projector, 1080p) for $60. It...is not like a TV. Works only in low lighting conditions and has some focus issues, but if you just want a big screen with decent resolution, absolutely worth skipping a TV for this. And NO SMART FEATURES.

I'll be upgrading to a better, eventually 4k projector, but it seems like the ad and spam smart crap hasn't hit projectors yet....YET.

Arubis• 4 years ago

I spent $200 on a 43" Spectre UHD 4K TV a week ago and it literally doesn't have wifi capabilities. It just reads off HDMI. The end.

WalMart sells their stuff at like half MSRP and there isn't network connectivity with which to exfiltrate your data.

I wish every manufacturer worked like this.

Kon-Peki• 4 years ago

The other reason they are inexpensive is that they forego some physical robustness. Like you have to be more careful than normal taking it out of the box and mounting it on your wall. Or if you have kids and things sometimes go flying you better hope they don’t hit the screen.

It is a trade off you have to be willing to make ;)

esperent• 4 years ago

I have an LG C1 OLED 48 inch which I use as a monitor. Its a really beautiful screen although a bit reflective.

But it must be the most fragile feeling device I have ever owned, the bulk of the screen is like 2mm thick and I basically have to get myself into a state of extreme focus, meditation, stretching and so on before I dare to move it. There's no easy way to grip it without putting some pressure on the thin part, even with two people.

I seriously wish they didn't go for the brownie points of making a screen this thin. Sometimes just because you can doesn't mean you should.

Seriously, make it like 20mm thick, robust, easy to move.

I cannot imagine that any other screen, budget or otherwise, could feel more fragile than this.

gwbas1c• 4 years ago

I've been very happy with Sony smart TVs. They are Android based, and don't have "ads." (They do highlight promoted content.) It's very easy to go directly to Netflix, ect. Even the remotes give the services dedicated buttons.

tempest_• 4 years ago

I also have a Sony Smart TV.

It is ok but "highlighted content" are ads and I am quite sure Android TV is sending every bit of info it can harvest from anywhere to google.

jmcphers• 4 years ago

I own this exact model -- the QN90A, though in a smaller size -- and have had exactly the same experience.

The most maddening advertisement is the one that is forcibly inserted in the menu between the apps and the settings. Using the remote, you must literally click past an ad to switch inputs.

You ... must ... click ... past ... an ... ad ... to ... switch ... inputs. Every time.

Unbelievable for a TV that costs this much. I almost returned it, but as the author notes, the alternatives have worse picture quality and often aren't any better in the ad department.

cgrealy6• 4 years ago

Get an LG. Picture quality is just as good, and bugger all ads.

I will never buy anything from Samsung ever again.

cassianoleal9• 4 years ago

Likewise. I used to mostly buy Samsung. My latest TV was an LG OLED. Not only I find webOS infinitely more usable than anything I've seen on Samsung TVs, but the image quality is excellent and even the built-in speakers are acceptable after I disabled the crappy AI-assisted stuff that makes it all sound like it's reverberating in a dumpster.

tylerhou• 4 years ago

I'm pretty sure I have ads on my LG C1 on my input switch screen. Maybe there is a way to turn it off, but I tried (for all of two minutes) and couldn't find one.

Graziano_M2• 4 years ago

LG OLED has better picture quality IMO. I will not go back to a non-OLED.

jason-phillips2• 4 years ago

If only they could get access to the real estate inside your eyelids, just imagine the possibilities!

OneLeggedCat2• 4 years ago

There was a Black Mirror episode that almost went this far.

walterbell• 4 years ago

https://github.com/RootMyTV/RootMyTV.github.io

RootMyTV is a user-friendly exploit for rooting/jailbreaking LG webOS smart TV. It bootstraps the installation of the webOS Homebrew Channel ... At the time of writing (RootMyTV v2 - 2022-01-05), all webOS versions between 4.x and 6.2+ we tested (TVs released between early-2018 and late-2021) are supported by the new exploit chain.

solarkraft• 4 years ago

I haven't yet seen something like this for Tizen, it would be nice.

squarefoot• 4 years ago

The closest thing that comes to mind is SamyGo.

https://forum.samygo.tv/

Never tried it though; my old dumb 42" LG has no intention to retire.

preisschild• 4 years ago

I was so happy with this until I updated my firmware because I had a weird issue with Dolby Vision content. Unfortunately this doesn't work with the latest firmware.

Graziano_M2• 4 years ago

I had been deferring my firmware update for MONTHS and then I had some girl over and she just clicked "OK" and now I am pretty sure I can't jailbreak.

MattDemers• 4 years ago

I actually ran into this problem buying an Nvidia Shield Pro; they had just changed the UI to be packed with ads, so I was left wondering what was so great about it (from previous reviews).

Currently a Steam Link (old hardware), and Raspberry Pi running Plex/Kodi are pretty much my setup. Cast things to Kodi, use yt-dlp to download YouTube stuff, or remote into my PC with the Steam Link.

jason-phillips2• 4 years ago

I worked for Samsung for ten years and will never buy a Samsung product. It's pretty simple, their product support is shit. I will defend the people I worked with in Semiconductor to my dying breath but nope out on the consumer products like they're lava.

Their UI/UX is also pretty atrocious across the board, so I can imagine what their TVs are like.

I have a big 2022 Sony Bravia smart TV and while there are some suggestions on the home page, I would not call them intrusive at all.

451mov• 4 years ago

"I narrowed it down to the 85-inch versions"

Lol

jgbmlg• 4 years ago

That's only the problem you know about. The problem you don't know about is your TV is watching (and listening) to you. Put a cheap computer between your TV and the internet. Always buy the dumbest TV available. But dumb TVs now cost more than smart TVs. Dumb TVs make it difficult for the manufacturer to make money off you after the sale.

inopinatus• 4 years ago

Aside from not giving it a network connection, my LG C1 also became a lot less obnoxious when I declined the privacy policy, at which point it disabled most so-called “smart” features. All the image processing stuff still works. Also felt like it starts up more quickly, although I’m not game to re-enable anything to actually measure it.

_gabe_• 4 years ago

I think this whole thread is very indicative of why programmers shouldn't design a product. I've been reading through the article and comments trying to figure out what "ads" were being referenced and then I finally realized people must be talking about the ads for TV shows and movies...

I think the average consumer would much rather have a TV that they simply connect to their wifi and then get Netflix, YT, Disney+, etc as opposed to hooking up some sort of computer or streaming box via hdmi to get the TV to work. I also think the average consumer doesn't find ads for TV shows and movies that show up on their TV intrusive. I mean, that's essentially what every streaming app does already isn't it? It just shows potential shows and movies. Why would they get upset that their TV does the same thing?

What I do think is intrusive and disgusting is the fact that Samsung will happily take screenshots of what you're watching and send telemetry. The random ads for movies that show up are the least of my concerns.

snarfy2• 4 years ago

I ditched cable and went 100% streaming starting with Netflix because they had zero ads. Many of my friends did the same. I consider ads an assault on my psyche and will avoid them as much as I possibly can.

anothernewdude• 4 years ago

Here I am fucking annoyed that my PS4 defaults to disney, and not the streaming applications I actually have installed.

lifeisstillgood2• 4 years ago

I went through this process - we bought a "TV" and found it impossible to fight off "watch this" trailers appearing and enticing our little one.

The only solution is to buy "business or gaming monitors" - no built in TV, just connect up a apple box and be done with it.

Even then you can tell Apple is moving from "here is a button to press" to "let us decide what you are interested in"

(Tangent but it's noticeable that the stuff I have bought from Apple Itunes like a kids movie is several clicks away, but the latest movie that I have not bought but will need to pay for is right there on the home screen. No. That's the wrong way round. If I reach up to my bookshelf and the bookshelf needs me to climb a ladder and reach over the books for sale to get to my own darn book, the bookshelf is not doing it's job.

Apple. Be a bookshelf. I paid for a bookshelf.

behringer• 4 years ago

Unlike other brands, my LG allowed me to decline all the crap ware ToS so it's pretty much just a normal non smart TV. It does give a text add for new apps at the bottom usually when a new firmware update comes out.

Not a bad deal imo. Thanks LG.

corysama• 4 years ago

Same. I had to click No a bunch of times. And, dig through the menus to make sure I didn't miss any defaulted-on crap. But, with that done, my LG TVs UX has been great for years.

For many years now my answer for "What TV to get?" has been "Last year's LG OLED." The screens are gorgeous. The UX is good. The differences between yearly models have been minor. The current year is naturally expensive. The previous year is nearly as good and much cheaper. And, the model from the year before that is actually often more expensive because leftover stock is low.

MBCook• 4 years ago

Why did the author dismiss the LG C1 as having the same problem?

I don’t remember ads on my CX (outside the App Store maybe).

I still use an Apple TV because I like the interface way better. But it has been a great TV.

altruios• 4 years ago

for smart tv's in general... can we make a public OSOS, to replace shit like this... just make it a Linux box tied to a some ubiquitous AUR equivalent... or are the unique hardware features too varied to overcome?

flashgordon2• 4 years ago

Dumb question - How does one go about (cost effectively) getting just a monitor that has:

* Same size/resolution range as the comparable TV

* Same price range as the comparable TV

* X display ports (combination of hdmi, usb, etc)

* Wifi (and bluetooth too?)

* Audio + ports

* Fine infra-red too for remotes

* Other absoulute hardware essentials i might have missed

Absolutely no inbuilt players or software or bloatware or adware or any of that crap! May be an app (inbuilt or for the phone) to configure presets perhaps.

evgen• 4 years ago

The magic words you are looking for here is 'commercial display' and it will always cost more than a comparable sized TV -- smaller volume of production & sales and the manufacturer is forgoing the revenue stream all of that adware and crapware on the standard TV offers them. It may have audio ports but is unlikely to have more than toy speakers because a commercial installation knows to keep the audio and video separated.

tl;dr you can get something close to what you want but you are going to pay 2X or more for the unit compared to a similarly sized TV.

snarfy2• 4 years ago

"Commercial Display" or "Conference Room Monitor" is what you want.

flashgordon2• 4 years ago

Yes it was a pretty rhetorical q. Why should a dumb display cost more? Are they really subsidizing a "smart tv" with all their bloat/crap ware? Does that even make economic sense?

matthew-wegner• 4 years ago

Like the peer comments, what you want is a "display"

Here's one with carrier board for a Raspberry Pi Compute Module 4, for i.e. digital signage, art display, or whatever else while it isn't showing one its external inputs: https://www.jeffgeerling.com/blog/2022/tv-thats-not-necs-pi-...

mongol• 4 years ago

Have anyone looked into the service menus of their TVs to see of there are options there to disable?

sen• 4 years ago

Meanwhile the OP post is so full of ads you’re basically scrolling past a full-screen (on mobile) ad for every paragraph. Then when I came across a chunk of text without ads and thought it was over, an ad got dynamically loaded into the middle of the text pushing what I was reading down off the screen.

Yes in this case I didn’t pay to read the content so they need ads, but the user-hostility of ads everywhere is just insane lately.

pwg• 4 years ago

Firefox plus Ublock Origin

No ads's anywhere on the linked post.

atom058• 4 years ago

Even with ad blockers and NoScript, the website layout is awful due to the constant blank spaces where the ads used to go, paired with a miniscule viewport for the actual text.

I've started to use Reader Mode a lot more lately, and it has been surprising how much more pleasant the Web is when consuming articles this way.

Maybe we should Invent a protocol for marking up text documents and sending them over the Internet or something? Maybe call it Actual Text Markup Language?

nightshift1• 4 years ago

Those articles complaining about ads are always unclear to me.

Are they saying that there is ads even when you switch inputs to a 3rd party device or is it just in the built-in media player?

noxer• 4 years ago

Some years ago I sold my TV because of its annoying UI and ads. I use a large PC monitor instead to watch stuff. Went back to pirating everything so I dont have to worry about whatever DRM garbage comes next or ads or streaming subscriptions etc. Zero regret. I waste way less time consuming media in general. I watch more youtube (with ad block and sponsor block ofc) and I go more to the cinema (expensive but I enjoy it way more than a streaming subscription). I buy merchandise form stuff I like and I go to concerts if possible and that's it.

lamontcg• 4 years ago

Seems like there's a market here for a relatively bare-bones high quality TV. Someone could probably start a small manufacturing business around that.

EastSmith2• 4 years ago

I wonder what TV units big corps buy for conference rooms, etc?

Imagine you are Google and you buy LG Spy TV, or Samsung Spy Panel. You put it in your conference room, where you meet regularly to discuss next Pixel phone with the Samsung's remote control AI listening to you. Eh?

What products are they buying?

emkoemko• 4 years ago

i am using a C1 for a desktop monitor, this advertising stuff is crazy i turn it on and it overlays a message about getting Disney plus for x per month....

even worse it auto updated and it force me to go through a TOS and privacy policy.... now why the hell do we need all this on a TV

AtlasBarfed3• 4 years ago

I mentioned this before, the hackers of the world need to try to get linux onto smart TVs, not sure how it would get flashed, but Samsung is being truly obnoxious, and they aren't alone.

They know you have no options, so they can be as obnoxious as they want once you get the TV, and they know everyone else is as bad.

But if there was a way better OS to flash on? Sign me up.

Knowing the TV makers, they likely will have that locked down tight with signed code. But if there is a way to update firmware over the air, maybe there's a way to intercept the update and swap in a different firmware

deeblering4• 4 years ago

$3k is an absurd amount for a TV, especially when considering their short lifespan due to planned obsolescence

mgraczyk2• 4 years ago

I have the same TV and have literally never thought about the ads on it except when reading articles on Hacker News.

It seems like a huge benefit these days to be the sort of person who just isn't bothered by ads, like you can enjoy products and have more options available and don't have to do a ton of work to enjoy them.

Nicksil• 4 years ago

I have the same TV and have literally never thought about the ads on it except when reading articles on Hacker News.
It seems like a huge benefit these days to be the sort of person who just isn't bothered by ads, like you can enjoy products and have more options available and don't have to do a ton of work to enjoy them.

You work for Google. Of course you have no problem with ads.

mgraczyk2• 4 years ago

Well I don't work on ads or on any product that has or will ever have ads, but...

It's really the other way around. I work at Google because I have no problem with ads. It's another example of opportunities available if you are okay with ads!

jiggawatts2• 4 years ago

I just got a Sony flagship television with Google Android TV.

I'm fully expecting it to be automatically broken by a software update about 1-3 months after the warranty expires and the new models are released. I plan to disable updates around 1 year in to mitigate this risk.

Think about what it says about the entire industry that this is what customers expect: multi-thousand-dollar products being purposefully remotely broken by the vendors.

gamesbrainiac• 4 years ago

I've had mine for 2 years. They barely update the software, and things still work!

sudo_chmod777• 4 years ago

Same boat. Sony has great embedded software engineering power but they are just not that good at these upper layer applications. Look at PS Store web, it's a hot mess. PS App is also terrible. Xperia has some fancy photography/videography apps and that's it. But that also means you get zero of the LG/Samsung nonsense.

tiagobraw• 4 years ago

I also own a samsung smart tv and hate the ad in the source screen, but more infuriating is their tv app always reappearing in the source menu as the first option… I always delete it but after a while there it is again..

also, it’s very ironic that I got a samsung ad on this site…

1vuio0pswjnm7• 4 years ago

"There are a few guides on the web to minimize these intrusions, which include not only digging into the Samsung Tizen UX to chase checkboxes and mess around with settings, but also having to go into your broadband router's configuration and block lists of ad serving domains.

You can also use Cisco's free consumer OpenDNS service to do this and override the DNS settings within the TV without messing with your router, which is what I ended up doing. But that requires the ability to update your dynamic IP from your router, so you may need to refresh OpenDNS's settings on occasion."

Or you can put your own router, a computer you control with an open source OS of your choosing, in front of or in place of the ISP's router. Then you can, through various means, control the TV's access to DNS or other servers.

Maybe the OP is stopping some ads by using OpenDNS, but he is not stopping data collection, commercial surveillance and data sharing with third parties for commercial purposes. Under OpenDNS's extremely permissive "privacy" policy, anyone, including TV manufacturers like Samsung, can potentially get the DNS lookup data from Cisco.^1

"It's ridiculous that you can spend this kind of money on a product, cut cords, and pay extra not to have ads on certain services, and then have them forced down your throat in the TV UX."

You may pay extra to stop ads, but it will not stop the surveillance, data collection and sharing and use of the data for commercial purposes.

1. Some highlights from Cisco/OpenDNS "privacy" policy (https://web.archive.org/web/20220928020026if_/https://www.ci...)

The types of personal information that we may process depends on the business context and the purposes for which it was collected. It may include:

Contact, subscription, registration, online identifiers, social media and discussion forum or communications details;

Communications (i.e., audio, video, text) content;

Online behavior and product usage information;

Financial Information (e.g., bank account details, etc.);

Details of an individual's business and other interests and opinions (e.g., where information is held in a Customer Relationship Management database); and

information about the user of our products and services, including System Information such as device identifiers, and telemetry (such as IP or MAC address) when such data is linked or tied to a specific person's device.

If we link other data with your personal information, we will treat that linked data as personal information.

Collection & Use of Your Personal Information

We may collect data, including personal information, about you as you use our websites and Solutions and interact with us. We also acquire personal information from trusted third-party sources and engage third parties to collect personal information on our behalf.

Sharing Your Personal Information

We may share personal information in the following ways:

With business partners, service vendors, authorized third-party agents, or contractors to provide a requested website, Solution, service or transaction. Examples include processing of orders and credit card transactions, hosting websites, hosting seminar registration, assisting with sales-related efforts or post-sales support, and providing customer support.

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In connection with, or during negotiations of, any merger, sale of company assets, consolidation or restructuring, financing, or acquisition of all or a portion of our business by or to another company.

In response to a request for information by a competent authority or third party if we believe disclosure is in accordance with, or is otherwise required by, any applicable law, regulation or legal process.

With law enforcement officials, government authorities, or other third parties as necessary to comply with legal process or meet national security requirements; protect the rights, property, or safety of Cisco, our business partners, you, or others; or as otherwise required by applicable law.

jjcm• 4 years ago

I love that ZDNet's ads are recommending the exact TV mentioned in the article: https://i.imgur.com/wzKUlb6.png

sys_64738• 4 years ago

Isn’t that just so utterly expected that it shouldn’t surprise anyone? It is better to find a quality dumb TV, IMO.

SayMyName• 4 years ago

Cheapo 4k 60hz Spectre tv from walmart. Best purchase I've made in years. Plug in my favorite streaming device and when it gets old and slow I just chuck it and buy another $20-50 device instead of having to buy a whole TV.

cpeterso2• 4 years ago

My Samsung TV included anti-virus software! Why does my TV need that? Sure it can install apps, but they’re all from Samsung’s own TV app store.

I only learned this because the UI had gotten soooo slow, like five seconds to respond to each button click on the remote control. Turning off the virus scanner mostly fixed the problem. Thanks, TV software update!

etempleton2• 4 years ago

The smart tv interfaces are abysmal across the board and it has mostly to do with the prioritization of ad space over functionality. I have an old Plasma with an Apple TV I use for most of my tv watching and then a modern new smart tv for games and the occasional movie in another room.

Roku is also a fine cheaper alternative to the built in interface of new TVs though it is also ad supported so you are just replacing one bad ad supported interface for a better, ad supported interface. And while it functions and is generally quick, it isn’t the most attractive UX.

ReptileMan• 4 years ago

Is this a US thing? I have samsung tizen high end TV in Europe and there are no ads whatsoever.

pabs3• 4 years ago

If Software Freedom Conservancy win their lawsuit against Vizio for GPL violations in their TVs, you will probably be able to install open source Linux distros with KDE Plasma Bigscreen or Kodi on any Vizio TV and soon afterwards lots of other smart TV vendors including Samsung will likely be similar. Allowing the vendor operating system to remain on the device after you purchase it basically means ads/spyware these days.

https://sfconservancy.org/copyleft-compliance/vizio.html

wesapien• 4 years ago

Would a Pihole work for these ads?

Markoff• 4 years ago

That's what you get for not doing research prior buying TV. By now everyone should already know to avoid Samsung smart TVs. Just read reviews/experiences prior buying or try it on your own and if you don't like it return it.

lazyeye• 4 years ago

Somebody needs to sell a tv with a high quality display, 10 hdmi ports and no smart features whatsoever.

jakub_g2• 4 years ago

I will just drop this link here:

https://www.samsung.com/us/business/samsungads/

herbst• 4 years ago

I have a Mi TV. I created rules for everything it was randomly sending in my Pi-Hole. I don't use traditional TV so I have no experience with smart ads. Next to the common apps we make heavy use of Kodi, mostly to properly access all the TV channels online catalogues. I use alternative apps without ads whenever possible (Smarttube, some weird Twitch app I found on the store, ...)

The only thing i couldn't 'fix' yet are the extensive ads when using YouTube via cast.

Edit:// Samsung botching Android to something ugly with shit UX is nothing new. Really just avoid buying Samsung devices

timwaagh• 4 years ago

Well don't buy a Samsung then. Sometimes things are that simple. They're pretty well known for bloatware and why would tv be any different? I have a Phillips (not really Phillips but some vague company licensed their brand), basically the cheapest option in the 70 inch 4k space. I don't have issues with ads. Just the standard yt ads because I'm cheap and don't have yt premium.

matty22• 4 years ago

User: Buys $3000 ad machine

Ad Machine: * Shows Ads *

User: * surprised Pikachu face *

tzs• 4 years ago

A few people have mentioned ARC problems. If you are having problems with plain ARC, as opposed to eARC, try using an HDMI cable with ethernet.

Plain ARC is supposed to work over any HDMI cable so you should only need an HDMI with ethernet for eARC, but after years of never being able get ARC to work with my Denon receiver which is from 2013 I happened to notice that in the manual it said that for ARC to use a “Standard HDMI cable with Ethernet” or “High Speed HDMI cable with Ethernet”. I switched to a "with Ethernet" cable and ARC worked.

I spent $3k on a Samsung Smart TV and all I got were ads and unwanted content

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