Write a note to your spouse every day

https://jdnoc.com/note/

by jordanmoconnor • 4 years ago

408 280 4 years ago

jdnoc.com

clircle• 4 years ago

“Husband discovers that communication with wife is helpful”

em-bee28• 4 years ago

a bit to much snark for HN i am afraid, but communication with your partner is really what it comes down to.

TheCowboy3• 4 years ago

A lot of the comments on here seem to feel this is a controversial topic, so maybe it's not that simple or it's an idea some people would find useful.

seba_dos1• 4 years ago

I recommend writing the note first thing in the morning (...) That’s usually when you’re most fresh

Combining "morning" and "fresh" in one sentence sounds like an oxymoron to me.

ram_rar• 4 years ago

I am going to get a lot of flak for this. But the more I read things like these, the more I feel marriage is not for everyone and society has a whole should stop gushing down this concept to next generation. Personally I feel, If you have to write a note to your spouse everyday to "save your marriage", then you probably didnt have one to begin with.

ars• 4 years ago

This is simply a tip that has worked for this person, and could work for others.

It doesn't have to work for everyone to be useful.

Also, I feel like far too many people have "holywood" views on what marriage is.

V-eHGsd_• 4 years ago

i think you're missing the point. it's not that you have to write a note to your spouse to save your marriage. the act of writing forces you to think and evaluate, and those acts of reflection, and 'public' appreciation, help keep the small problems from becoming the big problems.

like in karate kid, "wax on, wax off" is not about the wax.

but, you're right, marriage isn't for everyone. but i also don't think TFA is trying to convince everyone to get married.

bentona• 4 years ago

I would frame it differently. There seem to be many dysfunctional marriages that are carried by e.g. inertia - and because of this, I do agree that perhaps marriage shouldn't be taken as such an assumption. By the same token, though, those that _do_ choose to engage in marriage should accept the responsibility and the (apparently, I am not married) large amount of effort it takes to make it successful. I'm choosing to look at this tactic as embracing that effort, and striving for an excellent marriage, instead of the "passable" marriage which seems to be the norm today.

namecheapTA• 4 years ago

Marriage isn't perfect, especially not with today's divorce law and family court system, but the idea of joining into a union with a new person and creating a new family unit, even if without kids, is probably the best system for most people. Single people have a way of going feral IMO.

zwirbl6• 4 years ago

What's bad about divorce laws? People's view on divorce and divorce laws of the past seems to be much more awful

smegma2• 4 years ago

Did you consider that your comment sounds a little mean towards the author?

Gigachad2• 4 years ago

Hopefully the author is sensible enough to not be hurt by the most mild disagreement to the article point.

xupybd4• 4 years ago

Marriage takes work, lots of work. The reward in my experience is totally worth it. You have to lay down part of your life for the new life that you experience with your spouse and children. The individual you once were is now part of a family and no longer exists as an individual. You serve your family and they serve you back. For me the amount I give of myself is much less than I receive back from the marriage / family. I would argue the amount everyone involved receives is more than the sum total they put in.

If writing a note each day is too much work for you, then the daily sacrifices of being in a loving marriage may be too much for you. If that is the case you might want to think about what you're giving up and why. If you are happy with the exchange then great but I think many don't know how great it can be.

NotTameAntelope• 4 years ago

Eh, it doesn’t feel like work for me. I really enjoy my partner, she enjoys me, and I don’t think we have to do very much “work” to maintain that.

If I started writing literal daily notes to my wife, she’d be very concerned something was wrong. Then she’d ask why I’m wasting my time writing a note when I could have done… literally annoying else more productive lol

marriedforever• 4 years ago

The reward in my experience is totally worth it.

What is the reward?

avereveard• 4 years ago

A note is a tool. It works great if like op there's little overlap between spouses routines, so they can still feel each other presence.

It's not what's going to save marriages on it's own, because it is useful in a specific environment.

When I'm away for work, I always make time to call family morning and evening, so we can keep up with our wake up togheter and spend evening togheter kinda routine. It is both specific to the situation, the family and the context. It'd be silly to call home when I'm home, as it'd be silly to say that this will save someone else marriage.

Heck, marriage doesn't even mean the same thing to different people or has the same meaning across cultures or even within the same culture across time!

Normative approaches to marriage are almost always doomed to fail precisely because of this, and that's also why counseling is largely a personalized process/experience.

throwaway892238• 4 years ago

Modern generations have been influenced by the Romantics, who, amongst other things, put forward the idea that self-sacrificing marriage is actually less noble than purely passionate love. This evolved into the notion that a marriage requires consistent passion, and that if you don't have it, something is wrong.

But it turns out that marriage is really just a partnership and relationship, and all different kinds of people have different styles and interpretations of what that is and how it works for them. Some people need a lot of passion, some people need a lot of stability, some may need both, or neither.

But there is definitely something to the notion that good relationships don't come easy. People are all flawed in different ways, and sometimes people need help to work through those flaws in order to have successful relationships. Plus, a marriage may involve some long term expensive investments, like a mortgage, pets, children. So "saving your marriage" might actually be quite a rational and emotionally intelligent act, if all partners are amenable to it. Best-case scenario: you end up with a long-term loving partnership and a wonderful life; worst-case, you don't. Seems like it's worth saving?

haliskerbas• 4 years ago

Completely agree. I’m convinced that the get married have kids, raise them well, they become good workers, if you time it right we are all corporate drones as a happy family - dream is pretty horrible.

I want to work to not have to work anymore. I can’t think about a partner because I’m too dead from work to give someone else the commitment they might deserve. Don’t want kids that sounds like work. Nothing is wrong with me just want to be able to relax without commitment.

insightcheck4• 4 years ago

Would it be possible to change jobs/companies? Not all work is so draining that you can't have time for yourself, and many respect time boundaries. Hope you can one day make a living in a better environment.

em-bee28• 4 years ago

having a partner may help you relax, and it may change your attitude to work. i felt pretty dead too from work, then coming home to be alone. when i got married i felt better about working because family life would balance it out and i had something to look forward to while at the office.

lbrito3• 4 years ago

marriage is not for everyone

For quite a long time this was a very obvious and common sense statement. That is literally the traditional view of the Catholic Church on marriage, for example.

Things changed only very recently.

zwirbl6• 4 years ago

That is literally the traditional view of the Catholic Church on marriage

Can you elaborate on that? Living as an unmarried couple is not very catholic AFAICT, and when not in a relationship, how should you marry?

swatcoder2• 4 years ago

Some relationships work by being easy. Some work by being well suited to partner on a big and delicate project, like raising a family.

The person you’d most love to raise a family with (or run a fishing boat with, or whatever), isn’t necessarily the “easy” partner whose super cozy and gets you all the time and never needs you to make a special effort beyond what comes naturally.

But at some point, if it’s what you want to do, you pick a partner for what’s important to you and make good on that choice. Depending on who you are and who you picked, that latter bit of “making good” might benefit from a few contrived gestures and rituals that wouldn’t have been necessary in some other “easy” relationship. But that doesn’t mean it’s the wrong relationship or an unhealthy relationship, it’s just your relationship; and if those things make it better, why wouldn’t you do them?

tbossanova• 4 years ago

I agree 100%. Marriage works for some, but we shouldn’t assume it works for all. People should be encouraged to seek the model that works for them best. That said, if you have a relationship that works, it’s definitely worth putting time into it in some way.

Gatsky• 4 years ago

This is very much a fair-weather first-third-of-life perspective.

I see quite a lot of elderly people with health problems. The ones that are completely alone… it’s a pretty wretched existence, frankly. That’s the reality. Not to say all marriages are great obviously, but often even an ex-husband is better than no husband at all.

Pigalowda• 4 years ago

Agree completely. What I find truly weird is when Gen Z commenters in the west say “society”. Do they really believe marriage is some modern, western, or Christian invention?

When they push forward as social animals with no social support network and things eventually take their toll (age/entropy/etc) they will fall back on someone else’s marriage for help - their parents or siblings.

I say this as a late 30’s person with no marriage. I thought I had one and it didn’t work out unfortunately. Now it’s just me and I am in true shit if really anything remotely severe goes wrong.

mamoriamohit• 4 years ago

I have had an opposite experience. Daily notes makes no difference. I was in a relationship for 2 years and have written a poem every day for 400 days straight to her. But it failed nevertheless. In fact, I was told by her that these notes put her in guilt. Weird.

Gestures like these amplify whatever the relationship there is to start with.

If there's a lot of love, they amplify it.

If there's a lot of lack of commitment, they amplify it.

They do not change lack of commitment into love magically.

Sorry for being the party pooper. I understand where the OP is coming from and I truly respect that. Just wanted to add a bit of more context.

ok_dad• 4 years ago

Sure but if your problem is that you don’t think about your spouse enough, this might help. There’s a lot of reasons relationships fail, this seems to try to address one or more ways it can fail.

xupybd4• 4 years ago

I'm sorry for what you went through. When one person is giving more that the other relationships can be a real struggle. I've been there I gave 110% and it scared someone off. The entire thing felt awful.

Some years later I found my wife and she responds very differently. She would love a note every day. Any attention I give her is welcomed.

I hope things work out for you.

User23• 4 years ago

Since we're being party poopers, it's worth noting that if your relationship fails it is, by definition, because you are unattractive to your partner. If that's the case, then yes attention from an unattractive person is a major turn-off. That's hardly a great revelation, but even so that kind of common sense appears to be sorely lacking amongst many persons.

philosopher1234• 4 years ago

I think your use of the word attractive is wrongheaded, but if I set that aside your logic is also self contradictory. Lack of attention can cause lack of attraction, and thus attention from an “unattractive” person can cause attraction.

em-bee28• 4 years ago

attraction is created through interaction. but what attracts is different for every person, and if i am attracted to someone, i need to find out what makes me attractive to them. it's not just looks or first impressions. those help to get the foot in the door, but even an initially unattractive person can become attractive as you get to know them.

mullikine2• 4 years ago

Regardless of outcomes, your faithfulness is still virtuous. Living completely in inner truth is what you want to aim for. Sometimes that means persevering in truth over a period of time. When it doesn't work out, you have trained yourself to be faithful. The most important thing is probaly that whatever you are doing is truth for you, but without dependency on the other. There is no dependency when reciprocation is not necessary in order for you to feel loved by the simple act of doing what is true for you. I've met a person with an imaginary relationship and it keeps him focused on his creative output. It's very important to be able to maximise creative output (perhaps through your muse?) and to not overrationalise. That is because we live in the age of DALLE and artificial imagination, and you need all the entropy you can get!

em-bee28• 4 years ago

this is probably related to the effect of different ways we perceive love. see the five love languages. we need to talk to our partners about that and try things to find out what makes them feel our love. and also tell them how we receive them.

sneak• 4 years ago

The love languages concept is pseudoscience, just like the MBTI.

yieldcrv3• 4 years ago

love languages are bullshit, but it is useful to know if someone doesn't like physical touch

but don't worry, I play along with that, myers briggs, astrology, angel numbers, ambiguous western spirituality, and I'm a great listener (because I'm too dumbfounded to know what to say and I don't mind being an enabler, for sex)

unlike the others, its only the myers briggs people that take their belief system seriously, since it was probably used on their job at the teambuilding retreat and in academia, but increasingly the love language people have a blind spot for it too

everyone else can just laugh about their consequence-free religions

gexla• 4 years ago

From the article...

Though, I’ve set that expectation, and she holds me accountable to it, so I do it very often.

This is a shared ritual, which I feel is powerful in any type of relationship. You have rituals at work and with your friends. These rituals are an ingredient in the glue which give relationships meaning.

They need that shared sense of importance to work though. Other parts of the relationship should be healthy. Good communication is a must. Did she tell you that the notes made her feel guilty during this 400 day stretch? If not, then maybe communication was off.

TheCowboy3• 4 years ago

Writing a poem is a bit different than the writing OP doing which is communicating in general about everything and everyone.

I don't want to dunk on the act of writing poems which is perfectly fine, but that's the creation of art. If you look at how he structures his communication, there are active day-to-day issues/problems being addressed that if left unresolved prevent the appreciation of something like a poem.

And as everyone else said, sometimes relationships don't work out and you did your best.

smt882• 4 years ago

have written a poem every day for 400 days straight to her

I'm sure this was a painful lesson to learn, but I hope you took the right thing away from it.

No healthy relationship is going to include 400 daily poems. It makes it seem like the subject of the poems is being put on a pedestal and idealized, not perceived as a real person with flaws.

It comes across as obsessive and, perhaps, insincere -- how can someone have 400 poems' worth of feelings for someone they've known for less than 2 years? And if they don't have those sincere feelings, what are they trying to accomplish?

Read a little bit about "love bombing" (not because I think you love-bombed anyone, but because it might help you understand how the recipient of this behavior might feel about it).

Ntrails2• 4 years ago

No healthy relationship is going to include 400 daily poems.

A bold and absolutist claim. The GPs relationship was clearly not healthy, but the idea that no healthy relationship could exist where there is a daily poem is kinda ridiculous?

Kaze404• 4 years ago

I agree with this. It made me think about the Adam Sandler movie where he finds out his lover suffers from a condition where she can't retain new memories, and at the end of the movie the conflict is solved by them going to live on a boat and him re-seducting her every day for the rest of their lives.

Watching it as a kid made me think it was a heartwarming ending to the movie, but the older I get the creepier it gets. It is essentially a hostage situation if you think about it.

Anyways, not saying this is what OP did, but I guess it's an example of how seemingly sweet and well intentioned actions can also be overbearing. I can't say I would enjoy having someone write me poems for 400 days straight.

funklute• 4 years ago

But it failed nevertheless. In fact, I was told by her that these notes put her in guilt. Weird.

I think you're missing some perspective here. You make it sound like you were the one really trying, and your partner is the one who was weird for not "getting it".

I would honestly be pretty freaked out if my partner wrote me daily poems for 400 days. It would come off as very needy and obsessive, and if it continued after me bringing it up, I could see it as a reason to break things off.

Of course some people might really like daily poems. But from what you wrote, it sounds a little like you've failed to read the room, and are now blaming others for that.

Broken_Hippo• 4 years ago

Same. Occasional poem? I'm not necessarily a fan, but it is thoughtful and boy, does that thoughtfulness go a long way. But daily is intense, and I'd much rather daily communication to be fairly direct and daily thoughtfulness being small things that are optional but nice (making me a cup of coffee when I'm groggily heading to the toilet in the morning, for example).

onion2k• 4 years ago

If you read what the OP wrote;

"I was in a relationship for 2 years and have written a poem every day for 400 days straight to her."

2 years is a lot more than 400 days. Maybe the relationship failed because they stopped.

corobo• 4 years ago

Yeah that sounds overwhelming. They better be consistently good poems too if you're pulling that move!

Imagine having to keep to yourself that you're not really into poems but your partner is doing this. It'd be heartbreaking to piss in those cheerios but how long could you keep it up?

Personally I'd have had to say enough with the poems already at day 6 or so

3pt141593• 4 years ago

If my wife were the poem-writing type, I would love a poem a day for 30,000 days, let alone four hundred.

But paying attention to people when you give them something is very important. People are different. You may cringe at poems, but I love them. I brought one that someone else wrote for me on my first date with my now wife. We talked about getting married on our first date it went so well.

So I guess what I'm also trying to get at here is that your contribution of your opinion to the conversation may be valid, but it's more kind if it's not so universal as to be judgemental, since mamoriamohit may take it quite personally even though there is a kernel of useful information in what you're saying.

oxplot• 4 years ago

Now you can go and turn them into a poetry book with artwork from Dall E. Sort of recycling effort.

mihaaly2• 4 years ago

I feel the poems are more like gesture, as you say, than communication.

And yes, 400 could easily slip into the category of demonstration, that may be bothersome for the receiving end.

Pure kind words in natural form may be better.

simonswords82• 4 years ago

Just wanted to add a bit of more context.

This isn't really context it's more a subjective and singular viewpoint from somebody who's relationship failed and perhaps was always going to fail regardless of the poems.

Not trying to be horrible here...just pointing out that this is not context.

elmolino89• 4 years ago

I was in a relationship for 2 years and have written a poem every day for 400 days straight to her.

While there may be some people like you enjoying maxed up romantic relationships I would run away in no time from a partner just trying to hard. Imagine getting home everyday to be greeted with a "gift of a day", 10 bullet points in refined calligraphy how much he/she loves me, new scent, yet another laborious make up etc.

Most of us will never be able to match that, be it because of no time/energy or a simple "let me rest after work, read a book/go for a walk". Relationship imho is not an attempt to create a Siamese twins in a mental space. Satisfy the needs of your partner, top it with extra stuff, but do not try to kill it drowning him/her in a waterfall of attention, gifts, questions about everything, etc.

em-bee28• 4 years ago

Most of us will never be able to match that

this is part of the problem though. the expectation that the contributions to our relationship should somehow be equal. yes, both partners should contribute something, and it is possible that one (or both) of the partners are not contributing enough, but wanting to limit my partners contributions because i can't keep up is a problem in itself. the proper response is to talk about it, to share how these poems or whatever it is, make you feel. and come to an understanding that both can work with. the most important thing to do is to listen what the partner has to say, and how they feel. as with all these things, it comes down to communication.

nlnn2• 4 years ago

Obviously it's not quite the same thing, but reminds me of an old neighbour we had.

She used to love baking, and would bring round cakes/pastries/bread for us all the time.

It was really nice at first, but also made us feel very awkward/bad that we didn't reciprocate (neither of us really cook much), even though we'd never asked for the cakes.

Eventually we had to ask her to stop, since we just didn't want to eat that much unhealthy food. She took it as a bit of an insult, and ended up being a lot colder to us after that.

It was a shame, but I'm not sure what else we could have done - she was giving us something unasked for (which we felt burdened by, even though she said she never expected anything in return), and got upset when we asked her to stop.

newshorts4• 4 years ago

I learned about this from my mom. She’s a giver, but to the point where we don’t want the stuff.

We appreciated the thought, but she would bring so many toys for our daughter it was overwhelming and we didn’t Have that much space.

It was clearly more for my mom than for us, she just likes to give.

So I reciprocated by saying thanks and promptly throwing/donating something older. This allowed my mom to keep giving and us to not have the clutter.

I’m glad to confirm what I already knew by your story. It would have hurt her and damaged our relationship if I would have asked her to stop.

mempko• 4 years ago

Debts are what bind neighbors and communities together. You felt bad because you were in debt to her giving but didn't want to have a relationship with that person by reciprocating. Often, the worst thing you can do in relationships is to get out of debt. Debts are a reason for people to see each other. By telling that person to 'stop baking', you told them essentially 'i don't want to have a relationship with you'. (see Debt, the first 500 years by David Graeber)

jollyllama2• 4 years ago

The baking thing is real. People think they're helping you by loading you down with carbs and sugar. It's like someone buying you drinks - no, asking you to drink another round of his homebrewed beer - when you've already had enough. Upon reflection here, I think the best thing to do is probably to say "great, I'll eat this later" and feed it to the wild beasts.

itsthejb• 4 years ago

This is called a “covert contract”. It’s perhaps the key part of “nice” behaviour that is everything but - you can’t tie someone up in a “deal” that they never agreed to. Even worse, punishing someone else for not keeping up their side of the non-negotiated “deal”

InitialLastName• 4 years ago

In order for a relationship to remain healthy, the communication has to be bi-directional (and both parties need to feel that it is bi-directional). Writing a poem to your partner every day can be fine; if it makes your partner feel like it drowns out or undermines their signals to you, it's insensitive.

If you have an issue with your communication to your partner (either in not producing it consistently or not feeling that it's received consistently), changing it up to something you can generate (and/or your partner can receive in the intended spirit), building a habit that changes up your communication can help. On the other hand, if that habit makes your partner feel inundated, overwhelmed, or drowns out their communication to you, it can make things worse.

mullikine2• 4 years ago

Already on it: https://semiosis.github.io/posts/write-everyday/

alexashka5• 4 years ago

Imagine needing daily gratitude to function?

slowmovintarget2• 4 years ago

Imagine how expressing daily gratitude might change who you are.

If you say things enough, you come to believe in them and act to make them true. Even if you wrote such notes every day, and never gave them to your partner, the act of writing them changes you. Perhaps, even, into a better partner.

alexashka5• 4 years ago

Gratitude is only possible from a place of narcissism. Think about it.

ephaeton• 4 years ago

Imagine how it feels to _receive_ daily gratitude for your part in the hamster wheel

the_gipsy5• 4 years ago

I’m a husband who is 30. I also have 4 kids, ages 6 and under. I’m the sole-provider for the family (though my wife works harder). Between the job, the kids, and extrafamilial obligations, there’s not a lot of time for communication with my wife. We’re on the go from sun-up to sun-down, and at the end of the day we drop into bed exhausted to get just enough sleep for the next day. Very often in the past, a week or so would go by and I hadn’t even so much as checked in on my wife.

Sounds like hell; is this the American Dream?

barry-cotter• 4 years ago

People who keep on having children are often the kind of people who like children. Under those circumstances I assure you that is not a hellish life.

maest• 4 years ago

I think the author thinks they have to have kids as instructed by the bible:

"As human beings, our primary mission in life is to be fruitful and multiply, and take dominion over the earth. If that sounds like Bible talk, it is. This is the creed God gave to Adam and Eve. Genesis 1:28.

That’s our responsibility as human beings."

https://jdnoc.com/guides/increasing-wealth-as-a-father

insightcheck4• 4 years ago

The author is the founder, owner, and operator of a company, and from a quick view, is quite successful at his work. Plus, he is in a relationship where his partner is supportive of his dreams and long hours. And he has kids at the same time.

That sounds like a great life to me. Not a lot of people get the opportunity, and not very many people can pull it off. I'm sure life will be more relaxed when the kids leave the home after become adults, too.

mihaaly2• 4 years ago

When there is no time for important things that does not sound like a great life (to me of course).

Is that company that important?

Did we loose the ability to get enough to live and we live to get enough instead?

the_gipsy5• 4 years ago

Plus, he is in a relationship where his partner is supportive of his dreams and long hours.

The fact that he needs a servant-wife to be able to support his career is a red flag. Having so many children and spending so much time working also means he can't have meaningful relationships with all of them.

benhoyt• 4 years ago

It does sound hectic, but it's not hell, because he loves what he does, and clearly loves his wife and kids. That sacrifice (on the part of him and his wife) is for those they love.

I do think it's kinda weird to write his wife a daily note -- presumably it takes him 15-30 minutes to write the note. Why not spend that time talking face-to-face with her instead? For me and my wife (I'm in a similar stage of life) we cherish that ~30 minutes before bed to have a cup of tea, regroup, chat about the kind of things he writes in his note, and so on.

Though he did say that writing the notes has helped their relationship, and they now "talk more than ever (weird, right?)". So if it's working for him, keep it up!

em-bee28• 4 years ago

depends on where both of them are when he has time to write the note. he could call her, but maybe it's at a time when she is not available. in any case it seems like one way to address one problem in their relationship (the problem of not having enough time to talk to each other) sure there are other ways to address the same, some better, some worse. this is what happens to work in this situation.

pfix• 4 years ago

My interpretation of this is in the context of four kids and his wife still asleep when he's writing the notes. Experience tells me there's not much space for intimate conversation as soon as the kids are up and about.

dkdbejwi3832• 4 years ago

Maybe he writes it on the train during his commute or some other time when they can’t physically talk?

prmoustache2• 4 years ago

It does sound hectic, but it's not hell, because he loves what he does, and clearly loves his wife and kids. That sacrifice (on the part of him and his wife) is for those they love.

Well I love my kids but I still think in retrospect that it was a shitty decision to have kids. Things aren't mutually exclusive.

Having said that I am not saying anyone ought to regret having kids or that it is a shitty decision for everyone.

jimbob45• 4 years ago

Getting what you want is often unpleasant. Accomplishing nothing is quite often very pleasant. The trick is to find a happy medium between those two.

spoonjim• 4 years ago

Life with 4 kids under 6 is exhausting as hell but feels like heaven.

throw03172019• 4 years ago

Now imagine doing that with two minimum wage jobs. That is true hell.

watwut5• 4 years ago

That is impossible. Kids this small require childcare and minimum vage job does not pay for one. With such small salaries, one of them has to be home.

watwut5• 4 years ago

They have 4 kids under 6. Sounds like reality of families with manu small kids.

erfgh• 4 years ago

I have two kids under 6 and while it was very hard for about a year or so I realized that I am a lot happier than I was before I had kids, even though I do an order of magnitude more chores. Then I realized that this is the reason I am happier --- I work; and I don't mean I work for an employer, I work for my family, my children, my house. This is what makes me happy.

There is an ancient Greek saying: Not working is the root of all evil.

showsover• 4 years ago

I'm very interested to read more about that Greek saying. Do you have a reference of it somewhere?

otikik3• 4 years ago

Children require a lot of time. I only have a single one, and I am already struggling with no time to do anything. I admit I am not the best at time management.

With 4 children ... I can't even conceive how that would be. I would probably love them to death but would consider escaping into the wildness every night.

em-bee28• 4 years ago

time overlaps, it doesn't accumulate. two kids takes maybe 20% more time than one kid, not 100% more. and as kids get older, more kids means they can occupy themselves more easily because they play together, and are not alone seeking your attention.

Shocka1• 4 years ago

I feel ya. It took me a couple years to get used to having kids, but there is a point where I realized (as a very selfish person) my life was no longer about me. The little amount of time I get to myself anymore I cherish, just as much as the time I cherish with my children.

RektBoy• 4 years ago

I've stopped reading at ".... 4 kids" :D

newshorts4• 4 years ago

Ha. I can understand your pov for sure.

We (family with two kids under the age of 4) just moved to Texas, been in there ER once, urgent care twice, had stomach flu, ear infection, viral rash, a flat tire, water damage in the house we bought resulting in lots of money flying out the window and a scramble to find temp housing.

All in the past two weeks.

It’s pure hell to the point you laugh instead of cry.

For example, yesterday our kids got into daycare which meant the only thing my wife and I had to do was work. We could finally get a few hours of focus. Not thirty minutes into work the house cleaners I had forgotten about showed up to start cleaning.

Sometimes life seems nonstop.

But when my three year old gives me a kiss on the cheek or my one year old just wanted me to hold him, my world stops for just a moment and I realize how lucky we’ve been to even get to this point.

I guess I’m happy in hell.

astura3• 4 years ago

Women almost never willingly birth 4 kids in the span of 6 years without very strong outside influence. My guess here would be religion based on age (first kid at ~24).

Either that or there's multiple multiple births.

If their religion demands they have so many kids so quickly it's unlikely he helps out with the childrearing activities and leaves it to his wife, I'm which case his life is probably not very different than a childless man.

jordanmoconnor9• 4 years ago

Author here - Religion doesn't demand having lots of kids, though the Bible does say having lots of kids is a blessing.

4 kids 6 and younger is one child every two years. My youngest is 6 months. It's an aggressive pace but hardly unreasonable.

We wanted to have all of our kids together so they could be friends. And it makes the parenting window much shorter (25 years until they are all adults and moving out). Some people spread their kids out and have kids in the home for 30-35 years.

ajma2• 4 years ago

Having kids close together is also a legitimate strategy for having closeness among siblings. Not a guarantee, but having them in a similar stage of development can help them play better together (older kids aren't always interesting in what younger kids are, also there are physical differences that can make sports no fun for older kids). There's a practical aspect here. Not for everyone and it also varies a lot based on the temperament of the children. The strong outside influence on my family to half multiple was that we were able to see a good number of examples of large (>=4 kids) families that were an example of what we wanted too.

cjohnson318• 4 years ago

I think it's the American Reality, if you're extremely fortunate. The American Dream was to be able to comfortably support a family on one income with a high school diploma.

lbrito3• 4 years ago

I'm in a very similar demographic as the author so I empathise with how hard things can be, but this:

there’s not a lot of time for communication with my wife. We’re on the go from sun-up to sun-down, and at the end of the day we drop into bed exhausted to get just enough sleep for the next day.

Oh boy. That sounds awful.

Rather than trying to work around that busyness, personally I would go out of my way to just not have that. Maybe I'm naive, but I want to be continuously moving towards being less busy and having more time for my family. Actual time, disposable time. Not time-compressed, high-information-density notes.

Of course, to each their own.

_carbyau_• 4 years ago

That's was one thing that seemed odd to me. Take 15-45 minutes to write a note. Or, y'know, be present for 15-45 minutes right there in person.

However I suspect this is less about time management and more about communication styles: this person is a writer. They communicate better when writing.

TheCowboy3• 4 years ago

As they said in the piece, they're also doing thinking while writing. A lot of this thinking is something that isn't going to happen if you're there in person. And the other advantage they mentioned is that it frees up their in-person conversation time for more interesting and intimate conservations.

dkdbejwi3832• 4 years ago

It’s an old, oft repeated saying, but nobody ever laments not working enough when they’re on their death bed, but frequently people do regret not spending enough time with loved ones.

throwaway987972• 4 years ago

the person who is dying isn’t the same person who is working

who do you optimize for the old man or the current man

0x008• 4 years ago

Is it just me or does anybody else think having to “do” something to want to talk to each other is weird? I feel like the trust between these two was very broken at this point. Usually when both parties have a healthy emotional well being and they like each other (and have kids also, so they have a lot in common I guess?) it would only be normal to want to talk with each other.

Looks more like a symptom of fatigue or emotional discomfort to me if you don’t want to talk to your spouse. I would start looking Into that before I would fire off random text book romantic gestures to “save my marriage”.

szundi• 4 years ago

They have kids, pretty ok for fatigue to come in.

I think this is great, Jordan found something new and novel to reconnect and it worked. Who cares what it is if it worked. Shows affections.

People are different, what makes she happy would be weird for your spouse maybe.

I like it.

em-bee28• 4 years ago

i think part of the problem is, that when everyone is busy it is easy for habits to take over and communication to reduce, especially when things are otherwise going well. but then when things get worse the lack of communication makes it more difficult to notice.

in that case, doing something to break out of that and increase communication again sounds like the right step.

swatcoder2• 4 years ago

Relationships exist for a lot of reasons simultaneously, and long ones will become more and less about different reasons at different times.

For people raising kids together, the relationship can often become dominated by the practical partnership of family-rearing because it’s so consuming. You do that parenting thing all the time and you love your partner for what they add to it and that feels like plenty. That project becomes so fundamental and sufficient that a lot of other parts of the relationship can quietly fade even while the relationship as a whole is very strong.

Consciously investing in sharing (or romance, or sex, or travel, or career encouragement, or business partnership, or whatever) can help revive and sustain the multidimensionality of the relationship, and keep it strong and richly satisfying as various other parts wax and wane.

Of course, you can also just have a great relationship that rides a “no (conscious) effort” vibe and it can be a long and exciting and rich relationship too. It’s not like there are rules.

There’s just no reason to question the OP’s relationship just on the grounds of them choosing to put in some extra effort.

irrational3• 4 years ago

OP didn't say they don't want to talk to their spouse and I definitely didn't read anything here that suggested broken trust, emotional discomfort, etc. Maybe you are reading your own experiences into this? They were clearly saying that their life was happy, but extremely busy, so writing is a way to connect when they aren't able to do so in person as often as they would like.

colordrops• 4 years ago

Yes. I'm in what I feel to be a shitty marriage and it's a lot more communicative and healthy than what is described.

newshorts4• 4 years ago

I only have two kids, not four like the author, but I can say it’s impossible to have a real conversation sometimes.

highwind• 4 years ago

You obviously didn't read the whole blog post.

cleandreams• 4 years ago

Wow, so much negativity.

I think this is great advice. The key is being genuine and appreciative. Take care of your neediness in other ways. If you don't know how to listen, writing lots of notes can be just another way of monopolizing the conversation. Use the note as a way to maintain the intimacy you already have.

Ps my marriage lasted happily for 37 years until the untimely death of my beloved wife.

bergenty• 4 years ago

I guess I just don’t care about any of this. I can tell if my wife (or girlfriend) loves me or not based on body language and actions. These sorts of things have no significance to me, words mean very little. I’m all about action— body language, your tone when speaking, a respectful demeanor, being gracious and pleasant, smiling a lot, keeping the peace - are the only things that matter in my opinion.

newshorts4• 4 years ago

My wife is the same way. Words mean little, actions are her love language.

Words are mine. My assumption is everyone means what they say. I tend to take things too literally sometimes.

It’s been hard to figure that out about each other, but once we did it’s been easier to translate our love into the language of the other person.

My point here is that people have differences in the way they operate and some day you might find the love of your life operates differently too. Keep an open mind about it and seek to understand.

darkerside• 4 years ago

I wonder if your significant other feels the same way?

NetOpWibby7• 4 years ago

I don’t fear much but my wife dying before me is up there, right after my kids. I hope to experience and provide the marriage you’ve experienced.

This year will be my third married and my 10th being in a relationship with my wife. It’s been a tumultuous journey at times because of lack of communication.

In lieu of notes like OP mentioned, my wife and I just check in with each other every morning. And, throughout the day. She’s naturally thoughtful while I’m mostly focused on myself. We had a talk a few months ago and it was revealed that my self-centeredness was a defense mechanism I haven’t needed to deploy for at least a decade.

I could go on and on so I’ll just stop here and co-sign once more; communicate with your spouse. And then do it even more than that.

em-bee28• 4 years ago

* a defense mechanism I haven’t needed to deploy for at least a decade*

the behaviors we learn through our experience to protect ourselves are very hard to shake off. quite often we are not even aware of them or understand why. and any new partner will end up working hard trying to break through. but it looks like your partners effort and patience is starting to pay off. good luck to your continued future.

null_shift2• 4 years ago

I’d be interested to hear more.

I have come to realize that I am very self centered, but I can’t quite figure out why.

I tend to get very caught up and focused on what is going on in my life and never stop to think about others. It is more that the thought never occurs to me, as opposed to me consciously prioritizing myself over others.

My wife on the other hand is very thoughtful, always checking in on others to see how they are doing. I wish I could be more like that, but would require some external override (eg setting a reminder on my phone) instead of me organically deciding to do so.

NetOpWibby7• 4 years ago

EDIT: I'm in my 5th year of marriage. I've known her for 18 years now, not sure when we started dating...good thing my wife doesn't read HN.

lotusw0w• 4 years ago

I'm really sorry to hear that :(

safety1st• 4 years ago

I think the responses / strategies / etc. are diverse because relationships are as diverse as the human race. What works in one relationship has no guarantee of working in another.

The article is certainly well-meaning but it has a bit of a "one weird trick" feel to it. It's written by a 30 year old man who has done something to improve his marriage which is great. It's anyone's guess what kind of article he's going to write when he's 60. He's on a good track, he's learned that regular communication is almost always a win, my own $0.02 is that if there's any one secret weapon, it's that.

But there are also relationships and people where there's nothing that will work, someone is just a rotten apple, or maybe the trust is irreparably damaged. I've had partners who were such supportive, caring human beings that I felt humbled - a little ashamed of my own selfishness by comparison. But I've also had partners who were clearly in it for themselves, seeing what they could milk out of me, and no amount of communication was going to change that. For the latter there was no strategy that was going to fix it - the only right path was to end it and move on.

simonebrunozzi• 4 years ago

Sorry to hear about your loss.

I have been married for ~10 years. Ups and downs, but mostly happy to have chosen her. And hoping to get to 37, and past that, and live a long life together. I really hope that.

carom2• 4 years ago

This is probably the most abjectly negative comment section I've seen on HN. Really reddit-tier comments coming from some well aged accounts.

thinkingemote• 4 years ago

The submission is classic Reddit typical, to be fair. So one should expect a HN user to respond appropriately. I expect the submission to be flagged or at least not be visible on the front page in a couple of hours.

2000UltraDeluxe• 4 years ago

I think the main lesson from the article is that communication is key. There's different ways of going about it, and daily notes is just one of them.

elevenones• 4 years ago

Yeah, notes are the polish, not the foundation.

jordanmoconnor9• 4 years ago

Author here - so awesome your marriage lasted 37 years. I can't imagine that loss. Thanks for the kind words.

jurassic• 4 years ago

I don't know about daily notes, anything that's daily kind of loses its impact. But leaving surprise love notes for my wife, spontaneously, a few times a year is wonderful and something I highly recommend. Get some post-its and a sharpie, hide them someplace unexpected.

em-bee28• 4 years ago

disagree, when it comes to a relationship some things turn into rituals that are helpful. what the author is doing is more reflection than just paying attention to their partner. daily reflection is very healthy, whether you do it for yourself or you share it doesn't matter. but it doesn't lose its impact.

de6u99er• 4 years ago

We chat every day on Signal.

ryanmercer4• 4 years ago

My wife will point out in the evenings if I didn't text her much during the day, or even send me a message some point during the day asking if I'm alright. These days are few and far between, usually just meeting heavy days or when I really get sucked into a time-sensitive problem.

jollyllama2• 4 years ago

Yeah, people act like this is uniquely weird, but it's quite similar to the sms / IM that many of us do every day. It's just all in one message as opposed to broken up, and it's more intentional.

insightcheck4• 4 years ago

For anyone skimming the comments first, I found the author's outline to be the most interesting segment (though I recommend reading the essay in full):

"Here’s a general outline of what I write:

"Gratitude (for her, her hard work, her amazing looks, etc.)

"What I’m working on today.

"What I’m working towards (goals, deadlines, etc.)

"Anything I’m excited about.

"Anything that’s bothering me (stress, anxiety, pessimism, etc.)

"Ideas that I have (parenting, fixing the home, work related, etc.)

"Transactional stuff (finances, things I need to take care of, stuff I need to remember, etc.)

"Questions (are there any events coming up, are we doing a date night this week, etc.)

"Gratitude (for the life we have, the things we have, the time we have, the kids we have, etc.)

"I don’t write every section every day, but those are the general categories I usually fall into. The note usually takes me just shy of a half-hour if I’m not distracted."

The notes are quite thoughtful: many of these points sound sweet, and several of the prompts could still work for people who aren't in a relationship. The appreciation shown, and the self-reflection, likely both strengthen the relationship.

em-bee28• 4 years ago

some of that is what i write for myself in my journal. some times i share parts of my journal, or i share something with my partner that then gets added into the journal...

xlii• 4 years ago

Eh, everyone does what they want for themselves and a lot of weird dynamics work out for people.

However here, not knowing any party, from absolutely fly-over perspective feels like (marital) tragedy waiting to happen.

Young (30), working asses off either at work or with 4 young kids, only one person providing, lack of intimacy and something that could be called weekly report instead of partner communicating.

Even this piece feels forced. Maybe it’s me but exposing personal relationship strategy feels like boasting about win, and when relationships becomes a field for wins it doesn’t bode well.

I still don’t know them and know nada, that might work perfectly well, but that’s definitely not something I’d go with for general life advice.

plaguepilled• 4 years ago

I agree that this level of communication should be met in a relationship, but I feel like the form is possibly an area for improvement. Talking face to face being preferable, and texting or calling if not.

Physical notes are fine but it feels less natural.

em-bee28• 4 years ago

they are explicitly stating that writing those notes allows them to talk more because they can move the transactional stuff out of the way and use their face to face time for more enjoyable topics.

tlarkworthy• 4 years ago

My wife and I write an annual letter to one another. They are truly magical and they are great to read back, often bringing us to tears and capturing the struggles of raising children, moving continents etc. They unleash memories when read. We have ten years of them and they are truly amazing and I recommend it as a slightly less involved shared (two way) ritual .

thn-gap• 4 years ago

I love this idea, thanks for sharing it.

yowlingcat• 4 years ago

To be honest, I think of something like this as far more intimate and thoughtful than writing a letter once a day. Sure, they're apples and oranges. But taking the time to write a letter each year forces you to think about the year in an anniversarial lens; the meaningful moments, the memories, the struggles, the victories, the journeys.

jenniferhl3• 4 years ago

I still have all the letters that me and my partner wrote each other when we started dating. They're always nice to read again.

jordanmoconnor9• 4 years ago

Author here - We do that too! Typically we'll write a letter for the other person for their birthday. It's a much more reflective letter (whereas the daily note is more "what's going on right now"). Great tip.

sleepydog• 4 years ago

I do this as well with my wife of 10 years, although it's not something we agreed upon -- it just ends up happening in lieu of or in addition to a birthday/anniversary/valentine/whatever gift. Agreed on all points.

yessirwhatever• 4 years ago

Don’t waste your time reading comments. Each pontification is shittier than the other. People on HN can be extremely stupid sometimes.

Note to author: please for fuck sake, stop with the false click bait promises. “I wrote a note every day” … then … “Ok, that’s a lie; it’s on weekdays and not everyday”… what the hell? You do you you’re writing and not speaking right? ie. go back and edit your text if you’ve lied, otherwise it’s just clickbait.

ps901• 4 years ago

Look at you, now you're the one commenting stupid.

HEGalloway• 4 years ago

yessirwhatever

rock_artist• 4 years ago

This is interesting read/advice.

Yet, what I've really missed is the spouse feedback.

The writing focused on "his" expectations and "his" conclusions.

I'm not underestimating this.

Though it would be nice to write this as a duo or share a separate post by your spouse.

jordanmoconnor9• 4 years ago

Author here - She regularly talks about her perspective to me and I listen, so a reciprocal note isn't usually necessary or expected.

ajma2• 4 years ago

+1, I'd love to see your wife write up a similar post about how she feels about this exercise.

wayanon• 4 years ago

This would drive me up the wall but each to their own.

basicplus2• 4 years ago

Where does one find a wife?

Cloudef• 4 years ago

Having recently found a partner, I never want to go through the search / date / getting known each other process ever again. If you did not get to known someone from young age, the dating culture gets increasingly worse

em-bee28• 4 years ago

find some female friends first. and i specifically don't mean try to just date women. friendship without expecting to get married is a better startingpoint.

start here https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=31713720 and maybe here: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29100862

online dating can work, but only if both partners are open to a serious conversation of your respective expectations from a relationship. or of you both accept that building a relationship takes time to get to know each other.

otikik3• 4 years ago

I would have appreciated some mention of the actual medium in which the notes are written.

Are we talking about a post-it note? Are the notes in a physical notebook? Is this done via some sort of mobile app? On a WhatsApp message, perhaps?

I know it will be different for everyone, probably, but I think it is important to know one that is already working for someone.

jordanmoconnor9• 4 years ago

Author here - I added an addendum to the end of the article. I write notes in a notes app (I use notion, but you can use whatever). Then I usually text it to her (though email would work fine). I keep it very simple, and I type a lot faster than I write by hand.

xchip• 4 years ago

remember to take out the trash

spicyusername2• 4 years ago

Great post! Thanks for sharing something so personal. Being married and having kids is very rewarding, but also very challenging.

Being a good husband or father is not something that is a given. This is especially true in the asymmetric situation where one parent stays at home. Good for you for finding meaningful ways to be there for your partner and sharing it.

Sharing our experiences for what works helps us all be better! If this post even helps one other dad be a better father and husband, the world is immeasurably improved.

jordanmoconnor9• 4 years ago

Author here - that's exactly my thinking. Just sharing my perspective even if it helps one person be a better spouse/parent.

spicyusername2• 4 years ago

It was a great read :) !

rcktmrtn• 4 years ago

I thought your title and tagline were kind of clickbait-y, but you really inspired me to try what you suggested. I haven't yet overcome the feeling that anything I write to my wife needs to be an elaborate carefully constructed love note to be worthwhile. What you outlined sounds like just writing down some of the contents of regular conversations is what I usually talk about with her in the evenings (since we have no kids yet).

... it also made me think about one of the interesting balances I have to strike in our evening conversations, where I need to remember to stop rambling about technical details of work I'm excited to tell her about but are selfish to monopolize the conversation with (even though I know she does want to hear sometimes). The idea of transferring aspect of conversation to writing is very interesting, and seems like a good opportunity for self examination on my part to be a better spouse.

Anyway, thank you for writing!

chinupbuttercup2• 4 years ago

The type of job and how you are wired makes a big difference in how you communicate. Like the OP, I'm someone who has always worked in startups (until the last couple months at a non-profit). I've always been on the product / leadership side and most recently cofounded a company where I had to wear all the hats for 7+ years. Most waking moments were focused on making the company successful and ensuring a stable income for my family (I have 4 kids under 17). My older kids are travel soccer players, life is busy and my communication with my wife has suffered for a long while. With limited time together a marriage still needs to move along... I appreciate the OP using all means of communication to improve the relationship. I too am a better writer than speaker so I will add some of his advice to my toolchest.

jordanmoconnor9• 4 years ago

Author here - Sounds like you're in a similar situation (just 10 years ahead of me). I think this would work great for you, but you clearly have been doing something right to keep the marriage afloat for that long!

chinupbuttercup2• 4 years ago

My wife and I want to leave a legacy for our kids and glorify God with our marriage. We've also had many first hand experiences of watching other marriages implode and cause harm to family members and children. It's always better to keep working at it, keep humble, and have fun enjoying life :)

lamida• 4 years ago

I was writing (almost) daily email when I and my wife were in long distance relationship during the time my wife studied for her master degree. It happened just in the early days of our marriage. It was the day before WhatsApp has video call feature and long time before zoom. The small daily email quite helping us to form the bonding. Couple o lf years ago I dumped the email into this blog http://www.dearwifey.com/.

cryptozeus• 4 years ago

Great read, I am stealing this concept and implementing it in someway. People are lost here in details, obviously the central point of this article is how to stay on top of communication with your spouse with busy lifestyle. It doesn’t have to be notes, may be you can go for daily walks etc. Point is to not let relationship become stale and boring that after 20-40 years of marriage you may not know much of how life went. May be some people do not want to be very involved with wife and just marry to have kids. Either way points in this articles are great, thanks for sharing.

NooZ• 4 years ago

Thank you for sharing! great idea.

aas1957• 4 years ago

3x5 card, one to two sentences. It works.

chkaloon• 4 years ago

Reminds me of the habit we started in Marriage Encounter 20+ years ago. Same idea - communication. ME is Christian-based, and we have fallen away from that in recent years, but the concept was sound. The daily notes went a long way to improving communication and intimacy. This post prompts me to pick it up again.

arkades• 4 years ago

My issue with my wife is not having 45 mins a day with her. If I had that, the note would be supernumerary.

eric4smith2• 4 years ago

Writing a note every day is just pedestalizing your partner unless it’s bidirectional.

Also, “absence makes the heart grow fonder” is a real thing.

So very bad advice if it’s just one way. That’s actually si*p behavior.

Very good advice if it’s symmetrical.

kixiQu• 4 years ago

The underlying value here seems to be that good communication is absolutely essential. The kind of person who goes into SEO blogging professionally is likely a very comfortable writer. It may be that one person is better able to express themselves in a written form, and one person is better able to express themselves orally. It sounds like this isn't really about the ceremony of the note - they're handling household logistics – so much as putting the effort into communicating, so I could see that being best done by one person as writing, and by the other spoken.

eric4smith2• 4 years ago

That's implied.

chmod600• 4 years ago

Does she write notes to him? It would feel a little weird to me if this was one-sided.

llaolleh• 4 years ago

Everyday sounds a bit too aggressive, but I could see this working maybe on a weekly or monthly basis but in longer form.

A newsletter for one could sound exciting.

duckydude20• 4 years ago

i am so obsessed with writing notes. like, i literally document everything. like everything. it's not like writing diary at end of the day. it's like taking notes you are going through. i am so obsessed, i try to reach out for my mobiles as fast as possible something happen. it's like, i am writing what i am thinking... and it's only for one reason for my future partner, that's all. i want to share everything with her. no matter what... i know it's so much she can't even read everything. also, one i meet her, these notes will be redirected towards her, so kind of no notes, what better that direct convo with her even with messages.... :)

i am waiting so much........

jordanmoconnor9• 4 years ago

Author here - I recorded an interview with my wife to get her perspective on it all: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OJP-4f7AnAk

Write a note to your spouse every day

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