My startup failed, and this is what it feels like

https://medium.com/@nikkidurkin99/my-startup-failed-and-this-is-what-it-feels-like-c5d64b3ae96b

by wbharding • 12 years ago

1084 238 12 years ago

medium.com

sudhi_xervmon• 12 years ago

Come back stronger Nikki. Best wishes and good luck

sid_xervmon• 12 years ago

You will do well II time around.

mmaunder2• 12 years ago

This is true. I don't have some a scientific study that proves this - just every entrepreneur friend I have that is kicking ass right now as an example of this being true.

mmaunder2• 12 years ago

There's some very old entrepreneurial wisdom that says if your business can make it past year 4, it has staying power. I thought that was bullshit until I made it past year 4 and right about that time we discovered efficiencies, lucrative markets, a kick-ass business model and what we are really good at.

And yeah, not having money is really really awful, especially when it goes on for years with no certainty that it will ever change. But as entrepreneurs, that's how we do.

api• 12 years ago

I had a big failure years ago. It was horrible, and in retrospect there were a lot of really screwed up things going on from day one. This included a business partner who turned out to be a delusional sociopath, etc.

Nevertheless I learned a tremendous amount. You learn things by going through it in the trenches that cannot be taught in school.

Currently working toward attempt two, which is probably much more likely to be successful.

jqm3• 12 years ago

It's sad to read stories like this. But I have to wonder... if the concept is profitable what keeps it from being executed without 2 million dollars in investor money? So maybe you stay smaller... who cares? For you, it is about what you are making, not how big the company is. How much does it really cost to set up a database driven website? Hmmm?

Now, I realize this doesn't apply if the end game is a high dollar exit, but if you can make a decent living with your application/web site ("startup" and "founder" are overused terms in my opinion) who cares?

If you can't make a profit long term, then maybe you your idea doesn't deserve to live. Simply passing the bomb on to the next set of suckers be they the public at IPO's, or acquires, or VC investors hardly seems like the right thing to do (although no doubt it is done all the time... sometimes with incredible profits).

There is life outside the VC world. If it's a good idea and profitable and you love it....stick with it. If you are looking for a billion dollar exit... that's another thing entirely and it's time to move on to the next idea.

semiel• 12 years ago

I generally agree with this perspective, but a two-sided marketplace is one of the business models that really does need to grow fast. No one would install the Uber app if it didn't have any drivers, and no one would apply to be a driver if there were no riders.

jqm3• 12 years ago

OK. That's a very valid explanation in this case.

Kind of like all the ebay replacements that never seem to get anywhere in spite of how awful ebay is.

jakejake4• 12 years ago

It's a valid point. I think that certain types of ideas do require capital to start. Uber, for example, probably needed a lot of capital to get their infrastructure going. If you have web-based startup with minimal expenses then investment capital may not be necessary until you are ready to make a big move.

Here on HN it is overly glorified to read "company gets 1.2 million investment." It puts things in perspective to think "company takes out 1.2 million dollar loan and now has 10 months to figure out how to stay in business." But that's the reality of going the venture capital route before your company has any income.

thomasfromcdnjs2• 12 years ago

Bad luck. Though, where are all the expenses? Seems to just be an iPhone app with not much schelps, could your technical partner manage it part time?

nikkidurkin8• 12 years ago

I think it was a combination of bad luck, timing, and some bad decisions on my behalf. I learned a lot from the experience.

Actually, we had a team of 5 working on this. Running operations is really intense and time consuming. There is lots of customer service, community management and making sure items arrive at their destination. Then I was there to work on product and I had 2 developers as well.

I looked at the figures, and although it might be possible to cut out all the tech/product side and just leave operations, then we would really be in a zombie state. I thought it was better to cut our losses and move on.

thomasfromcdnjs2• 12 years ago

Makes sense. I actually stumbled upon 99dresses the other day after looking at Polenizer(I'm a Brisbanite). Hoping to grow a startup here, not because of some strict nationalism, just too lazy to go through the visa process =D

diziet3• 12 years ago

Curious -- where did all the money go? How did you manage to spend $700k~ -- you hired 2 developers (full time, why?) and took care of ops over 3 years? How long did it take, four years?

mVChr• 12 years ago

I feel for the author, but in reading this detailed post-mortem it's clear to see there was a combination of bad luck, poor planning, and a number of incorrect decisions. Hopefully she learned from them, will correct what she can and ride out what she can't in her next venture.

andrewljohnson• 12 years ago

It struck me when she glossed over how/why her two co-founders left. There's got to be a deeper story to why two "co-founders" would leave right when 1.2M is secured.

She said they decided to tell me they were leaving the company without even a hint of warning - my guess is there was no agreement in the first place or a lot of unnoticed warnings. To conclude she's just too trustful is almost certainly a flawed conclusion.

I'm sure she learned a lot from this experience, but she seems to write off the deserters as flaky. I'd be asking myself what I did or what lies I was telling myself that made me think I had co-founders when I really did not. That sort of character judgment is as important as product judgment.

jakejake4• 12 years ago

I was definitely curious about that too - inquiring minds want to know!

nikkidurkin8• 12 years ago

Hey Andrew, I actually glossed over that out of respect for the 2 guys. My purpose was not to bitch about them, and many people who will read this post in my network will know who I'm talking about. There were mistakes made on both sides, but in the end I bent over backwards to accomodate them and as soon as YC was over and they could say they were YC founders they bailed. I'm not saying its entirely their fault - I should have picked up on the warning signs but I was off fundraising for 2 months and didn't notice. But I did consider them my friends, and they didn't care what position I was left in if they were to leave. Anyway, I'm sure we both learned a lot from the experience.

ixmatus3• 12 years ago

I experienced a co-founder split not too long ago and I can definitely tell you from my personal introspection that you may need to look deeper than "it was my fault for not seeing the warning signs".

It always takes two to tango and you're right to not bitch about them but then saying you were stabbed in the back is silly. Being a founder is tough, having co-founder problems is tougher, clearly understanding what your part in the dynamic is or was is even more difficult.

Sometimes, too, to get this level of internal depth takes distance from the people and the experience. It took about six to eight months for me to figure out what was rightfully my fault and what was rightfully my co-founder's fault - beyond "seeing the warning signs early".

Also, I don't know what your captable looked like but if you were the controlling interest you cannot and should not expect anyone to care about what position you're left in - you must be prepared to shoulder the burden on your own for a bit if they decide it isn't worth their time anymore. The more you own it the more you own it.

Hope you're okay and sorry if this comes off as admonishment, it actually comes from a heartfelt place. You're welcome to contact me personally if you want more support.

[EDIT]

Re-reading my comment, I might be coming off too much as an armchair psychologist, I'll leave the comment up for posterity and maybe you'll find something useful in it or not. Either way I think you've handled yourself well and hope that you yourself are doing well.

primigenus• 12 years ago

I'm curious what YCombinator has to say about that kind of behaviour. Is this a unique case? Has it happened before? How do you prevent it from happening? What's the benefit of being able to say you're a YC founder?

jakejake4• 12 years ago

I think it's great that you take the high road and don't resort to dragging other people through the mud. You definitely seem to place the responsibility all on yourself, which I imagine is not always the full truth. Not providing any reason at all, actually makes it sound as if the two co-founders just randomly and completely bailed on you. (Which may be exactly the truth)

I was trying to imagine a logical scenario, for example they had an even better opportunity. Or perhaps it was better to split before the stakes became to high. Maybe the salaries were not going to be what was expected, there were disagreements on responsibilities, etc. I can imagine a lot of scenarios.

Not to diminish your article, which I found extremely interesting. It was just a point that definitely seems like there was a greater story to be told.

beachstartup• 12 years ago

you say in the article you were "stabbed in the back" by your co-founders. that's provocative language and an extremely strong indictment against two people that are not anonymous.

gdewilde• 12 years ago

I couldn't help but notice this irrelevant detail.

https://news.ycombinator.com/user?id=nikkidurkin

created: 1000 days ago

Mz• 12 years ago

You are 22 and female. I kind of hope you will cut yourself some slack. As a 49 year old woman, I kind of wonder how much this whole thing was impacted by your gender. It took me a long time to realize how many doors are just not open to me because of my gender, how many subtle ways I get cut off from information I very much need.

Of course, male or female, you did a helluva lot for someone your age and I really think you should feel fine about the entire thing.

pcrh• 12 years ago

I'd be interested in that too. I am a research scientist, and the experience of trying to get some decent innovative science done appears to be similar in terms of emotional stress as running a start-up. Will it work? What do I need, who will give it to me, etc, etc.

One thing I have learnt, though, is the people are harder than science; if you don't have your working relationships aligned all hell can be created.

ixmatus3• 12 years ago

It's glossed over because it requires more than a single party to represent the "story" in a fair light and it would unprofessional for her to write about her biased emotional experience.

I think she is 100% in the clear for glossing over it and I personally would have left out bits like "backstabbing" &c... They may or may not have but describing her personal emotional experience while leaving out the hairy and sticky co-founder dynamics is a great way to share an experience of the "dark underbelly" [that is startups].

crdb• 12 years ago

But can you reliably judge the character of people who are incentivized to deceive you?

In my experience, most people are happy to keep their options open, and most people discount volatility pretty hard when forced to make their life choices path-dependent. Not just to start a company, but when it comes time to commit resources to something, you find that even those who you believed would carry through, whether thanks to their track record or particularly convincing talk, will drop out.

I think of it as them having a high discount rate. The NPV of choosing a riskier path with later reward is thus lower than the stable, short term higher returns of stability, and the cost of "flaking" (the likelihood of you choosing not to do business with them ever again if you get to a position of such success that you can afford it) very low, especially if you are not currently in a position of success. Plus, you'll "understand", right?

I've gotten better over time at spotting those who'd drop out, but still have a 30-40% failure rate. I chalk it up to flakers being good at convincing other people - too good for me to spot them - and factor that in as a cost of doing business with good people which pays off in the long term. If you have a reliable way to spot flakers early, I'd love to read about it.

(FWIW on the original subject - Noam Wasserman's data show the highest rate of failure for "family/friends who become co-founders", followed by "fresh hired co-founders" with "people who worked together before as co-founders" being a significant predictor for co-founding success.)

zkirill• 12 years ago

The author took many, many hits and still kept on going. I have an immense amount of respect for her and hope that she will embark on a new venture soon where she can apply everything that she learned.

fsniper• 12 years ago

That is a really good and emotional post mortem. I think we need more of these. Great lessons are learnt from failures.

pbreit• 12 years ago

Gotta hand it to OP. Sounds like she gave it her all as a very young founder. I suspect after re-grouping she could have a bright future.

The one thing that made no sense to me was why they didn't stay in Australia and go after local market. Does the concept not work there?

nikkidurkin8• 12 years ago

There are only 23 million people in Australia, and its a small population spread over a huge area. That means shipping is expensive, which isn't great for trading low value second hand fast fashion items. An item that can get shipped for $2.80 in the US would cost $7 at least in Australia.

Also, Australia Post doesn't have any APIs to automate shipping. Girls had to physically go to the post office to ship items, and there wasn't tracking either. This meant a lot of customer service headaches.

razfar• 12 years ago

sounds like an opportunity

Theodores• 12 years ago

Hi Nikki

Consider one more roll of the dice, this time in the UK. We speak English and we have a postal delivery network.

Rather than chase the $$$ consider taking your idea to Oxfam - a British charity known for selling donated clothes. Your app will enable them to introduce a younger audience to the work they do. They also have people to pick up the phone, a marketing budget and that network of stores.

From a customer standpoint they really might be pleased to pay a premium to Oxfam if their clothes are going to a good home. It is a different 'doing good' proposition. Things that don't sell might as well go to the Oxfam shop as a donation - the app takes people half way there.

If not Oxfam then there are plenty of other charities that might be interested. You might not make money for the VCs of the valley but you will be able to make the thing work, perhaps to feed a few of those in The Global South as a spin-off benefit.

As far as acquiring new users, the idea of an 'Oxfam app' definitely has intrigue, people would do marketing for you by word of mouth. Plus they would 'excuse' themselves to get their next fashion fix.

Just to clarify, I think people should still get some money back, but with 10-25% or so going to Oxfam. Sure there would be postage to pay that might mean people are making pennies on outfits that cost pounds, but this would be psychologically okay if money is going to Oxfam.

You could also pimp the app to show the user/customer how many mouths they have fed through their trades.

This charitable outcome might also work well for those that have put money in your venture. To them they might not have earned $$$ but they will have done something for the greater good.

The UK market is small compared to the US but the geography is a lot tighter. Crack the UK with a partner such as Oxfam and then the other markets will follow, maybe with different partners. I should also say that charities do pay a living wage :-)

Regardless of what you do next, well done for giving it a go and I look forward to hearing about what you do next.

prawn• 12 years ago

+1. Postage in Australia is a very rough deal for many businesses. On top of internal pricing, companies overseas can often ship to here more cheaply than we can even ship internally. It's crippling and will remain so without either drastic overhaul or something like autonomous couriers years down the track.

Wine is big business in Australia, but where wineries in California seem to have < $10 shipping nation-wide, an Australian winery will cop $30+ to post a dozen to an interstate capital.

(I'm an Australian with one physical product which would be easier to sell if the shipping weren't so expensive.)

jakejake4• 12 years ago

I really appreciated this article. I'm on year 5 of my "startup" which has struggled and kicked and clawed and just barely hit profitability at the end of last year. I have to admit that it feels totally uncool that we have hung on all this time instead of just quitting after spending somebody's millions of dollars in 6 months. (We never had millions to spend, but anyway). There are so many times when you feel like things are just not going to work. Working hard and persevering are ideas that don't always jive with the "fail fast" strategy.

Even after all this time and things beginning to look positive, I still worry constantly that we will backslide or somebody will come along and take our marketshare or any number of other things. I wish that 99dresses had a different outcome, but still it is an encouraging story. No doubt with this kind of attitude and experience Miss Durkin is going to find success. I think it is extremely important to know that not every venture has to take off within six months to be successful. It's a long haul for most of us.

thegeomaster• 12 years ago

I like her so much! This amount of perseverance and strength is so overwhelmingly commendable and inspiring.

I wish Nikki all the best in the future!

birken• 12 years ago

Well written. One thing I always find funny about the startup world is the idea that hardship is good. Hardship isn't good. Hardship sucks. Sometimes hardship is something you need to survive to accomplish your goals, but not always. While there are a lot of successful startups that went through a lot of hardship, there are a lot of them that didn't. It seems that based on a lot of factors that were outside of your control you were playing the startup game on "hard mode" and you gave it a pretty good run anyways.

Also a pretty good lesson that having a good job and comfortable life maybe isn't so bad after all (a very un-silicon valley lesson).

shankysingh• 12 years ago

Gotta agree, startup is not some glorified zero sum game. Losing two co-founders nearly threw me into "depression". A special hell I created around myself of self-doubt and why-me.

Personally taking time off startup helped and made mentally more stronger. I can't even imagine what she went through with so many big ups and downs.

7Figures2Commas2• 12 years ago

Hardship at a lot of startups is the result of entrepreneurs not respecting the old adage, "It takes money to make money." A lot of entrepreneurs don't really know how much money they need, and young ones often start their companies before they know where it's going to come from.

The good news is that now is a great time to be selling equity in a tech startup. The bad news is that even if you're successful in trading your company's equity for capital, there's no guarantee you'll get enough capital, or that you'll be able to get more of it when you run out.

001sky• 12 years ago

Hardship isn't good. Hardship sucks.

The point is a bit more subtle. There is the russian roulette aspect of probability, and then there is failure from lack of character. Unfortunately, outsiders can't see or relate to the important distinctions. This makes dealling with use a bit more cognitive overhead--and that's what sucks. Explaining things to folks on the outside who don't have the inclination or understanding to care. That's a different kind of hardship vs. waking up everyday and doing difficult (but tractable) things like problem solving be it in math or marketing. But my guess is those are problems many will never have the privledge of having, for good or bad, one way or the other.

samstave2• 12 years ago

hardship sucks

Isn't that why we have a name for it?

coffeemug• 12 years ago

Or as Lefty Gomez artfully pointed out, "I'd rather be lucky than good." The more time I spend working on my startup, the more I appreciate the wisdom of this quote.

ehurrell2• 12 years ago

Hardship in itself is crap. Hardship that leads somewhere might kinda be good in retrospect, maybe. The startup world seems intent on getting people to buy into the idea that all hardship is that sort of hardship.

madaxe_again4• 12 years ago

I disagree. I think hardship is a valuable experience that everyone should endure.

1) You only really get to know yourself when you find yourself eating rice for the hundredth time in a row, and live on the floor of an abandoned building.

2) "never again" is one hell of a motivator

3) you gain the knowledge that all these things, all this crap we fill our lives with, is totally unnecessary

4) empathy. Live below the bottom rung for a while and you'll understand far more keenly what poverty is like. The idea of being in that situation and not having the skills, knowledge or gumption to not bootstrap out, or not having the vision to realise you already have, is terrifying.

rudimental• 12 years ago

Thanks for posting this! It sounds like it was incredibly difficult at times. Hard to imagine, but thanks for making it vivid.

I would love to hear more about the following (not holding my breath):

"After hiring a few people and finding an office in NYC we were ready to launch. We solved the chicken-and-egg problem using techniques that we promised never to speak of again because they squarely sat on the grey/black spectrum of naughtiness. If there was a line, we definitely crossed it. We had to. These hacks were harmless to others, so I figured it was only a problem if we got caught."

Edit: ++empathy.

coralreef4• 12 years ago

Man, just reading the story gave me anxiety.

creature• 12 years ago

Post-mortems like this are always really enlightening. I'd really like to know more about some areas the author glossed over, though. What were the grey/black tactics they used to get past the initial chicken-and-egg problem? And what change did they introduce that caused a near-revolt of their userbase?

Dartanion7• 12 years ago

My guess as to the grey / blackhat tactics they used to gain initial traction were: 1) Fake "sell-side" accounts to provide marketplace liquidity 2) Manipulating app store chart ranking through bot downloads or download services to acquire "buy-side" accounts

It sounds like the service basically stopped growing once they had to abandon the black hat techniques they were using (possibly because they grew large enough to attract scrutiny from the platform operators). If that's the case, there was never a business.

nikkidurkin8• 12 years ago

No, that's not it. I actually ended up talking about it my mixergy interview

utkarsh_apoorva• 12 years ago

Wow. Amazing story. I have heard of 99 dresses a lot - though women's fashion is farthest from my interest area. So you did build quite a brand. I am also pleasantly surprised to see that you probably have set up this blog just to share this article?

I have been an entrepreneur 5 years now, and I can totally relate with the part of showing a positive face when you have none - its an occupational hazard. Good luck for the next set of adventures.

BTW, I am sure the Valley community will be open to welcoming you back. You are an entrepreneur through and through - so if its not the Valley, Bangalore's doors are always open :-). Best of Luck.

BigChiefSmokem• 12 years ago

"...I was going to go big or go home"

Ms. Durkin I think you just need to go bigger next time. Don't just solve a small problem, solve a dire one that we all (man and woman, black or white) have in common.

Why disrupt a market when you can create a new one while simultaneously destroying four others? You know, that sort of thing.

Good luck!

coralreef4• 12 years ago

Please point me to said markets so that I can become a billionaire!

harel• 12 years ago

I understand the frustration and outright sadness at a startup dying. Its your baby while its there, and sometimes, you wake one day and its not. But that is the nature of startups. Like you said - the odds are against you from day zero. But we do it regardless for that 10% chance of "not dying" and the even more anorexic chance of "making it big". I think ultimately we're doing it for the ride. And I think every person going into a startup should be given a little laminated fact sheet explaining that he's joining an enterprise which will try to fight this statistic and nothing is guaranteed in this rollercoaster. Same way the banks have to warn you before you invest in a portfolio, that your investment might be buggered to hell, people should be aware the same applies to tech startups. If nothing else, that might cut down on the disappointment of letting your staff know its over.

Keep at it Nikki. Well done for your first round. Level up now and go at it again.

aimhb• 12 years ago

Stopped reading after the fourth misspelling of "it's".

GuiA2• 12 years ago

I met Nikki while I lived at a Hacker House in Mountain View for a few weeks in January 2012, having recently moved to the Bay Area. I remember being impressed at the time by her intensity, and by the fact that she actually had a real product with real users that solved a real problem.

An audible "oh no" came out of my lips when I clicked this link and realized I was reading about someone I had shared a few dinners with.

It's important for little pieces of history such as this one to be recorded. For the founders, to whom it gives a sense of closure, and for the community. So that we don't forget our comrades who didn't make it to the other side, but still have insightful lessons to share.

The press likes to glorify the AirBnBs, the Googles, the Facebooks - but as founders, I think it's important for us to be realize that this is only a tiny visible part of the iceberg, and that at the end of the day, there are so many factors at play that it would be foolish for us to focus solely on the "how many millions did they make". Human stories are never boring, and experience is one of the most precious thing others can share.

Thanks for taking the time and effort to write this, Nikki. We're with you.

---

"Investing money, creating new products, and all the other things we do are wonderful games and can be a lot of fun, but it's important to remember that it's all just a game. What's most important is that we are good too each other, and ourselves."(http://paulbuchheit.blogspot.com/2012/03/eight-years-today.h...)

ajessup• 12 years ago

This.

I remember sitting opposite Nikki in co-working spaces (Fishburners) and incubators (Pollenizer) back in Sydney throughout 2010 and 2011. Her gumption, determination and focus back then was (and is) a force to be reckoned with. If there is anyone who's failure I would never question - it would be hers.

It's heartbreaking to hear these stories, even more so when it's someone you know. But Nikki - thanks for sharing. We're all made a little stronger for it. For the rest of us it should serve as a reminder that no matter how hard we strive there will be always be forces outside our control that shape our destiny.

_pmf_• 12 years ago

"... but it's important to remember that it's all just a game. What's most important is that we are good too each other, and ourselves."

These things are easy to say for a very rich guy.

conradfr• 12 years ago

"Every woman can be beautiful in her own way" - Random top model

Omniusaspirer• 12 years ago

Your personal health and well being are much more important than your startup that just failed, even if it doesn't feel like it at the time. Nothing will teach you that faster than losing your health or talking with people who have.

brianmcc2• 12 years ago

Doesn't make it false though. Perhaps the opinion of someone who's "got there" and looks back counts for something more - in some cases - than that of someone early in their journey.

I'd rather this than "Yep - it's all just about the money" anyway...

nostrademons• 12 years ago

Is there anything he could say that wouldn't invite the ad hominem? I'm trying to imagine him saying "Yup, money is pretty damn important" and I suspect the response would be exactly the same. It seems like the only thing you can do if you're wealthy is keep silent.

FWIW, I'm hardly very rich and I've believed that since I got out of college. Mostly because those who believe success in business is just a game and don't get emotionally attached to the rewards tend to do a lot better in business than those who must get rich quick.

madaxe_again4• 12 years ago

I'm kinda failing to see the failure here. Yes, the business failed, but this reads like a fairy tale. Support from family and friends, investor backing, media coverage - all while failing to make a dime.

Try running a successful and rapidly growing business for 8 years while everyone around you tells you you're a crazy fucking idiot and that you should give up and get a job. No investor interest as we make money, which investors hate. That's failure.

I am a crazy idiot. I keep coming back for more. I will lose my mind before this is over. I am a failure.

BrandonM• 12 years ago

While I feel for your situation, I had to downvote you because your comment smacked of No True Scotsman and attention hogging. Sorry.

A startup folded and left several people with nothing to show for years of effort. It seems pretty callous to me to assert that she didn't fail, when several measures say she did, and she feels like she did.

I'm glad she shared her story. Do you think your comment encourages others to do the same?

Fuxy• 12 years ago

Sad to see her fail she's a very driven person and admire her for that, most likely if she had a little more funding she would have made it.

I think the most important lesson here is that the team makes all the difference and getting a awesome team is the most important especially for a non technical founder.

She spent a large amount of time and money just getting to the point where she had a reliable team.

Keep one eye on your team and the other on the product and be brutally honest with your team all the time if they can't handle it or can't decide to stay or leave this will make them leave sooner giving you more time to find someone else.

Don't shield the team from bad news this is a group effort and they need to feel a part of it.

zenjzen2• 12 years ago

Is this what HN has become? A fail-blog? :(

brador• 12 years ago

Would you prefer survivor bias?

zenjzen2• 12 years ago

I'd prefer to read HN and not get depressed as fuck.

Agathos• 12 years ago

My TL;DR: a founder ran into some painful but survivable bumps along the road, plus one killer.

The latter being there are people in the US government who would rather burn down the whole economy than share any of it with a dirty immigrant. Even a white, English-speaking one!

pravda• 12 years ago

"Aussie Nikki joins Silicon Valley millionaire factory"

Y-C = Millionaire factory? Who knew!

jenius2• 12 years ago

“I just knew I wanted to solve a problem I personally experienced: having a closet full of clothes but still nothing to wear.”

These are the kinds problems we are gunning for. These are the kinds of things investors are pouring hundreds of thousands of dollars into. This is the scope of problem our industry is solving right now. This is why I'm often embarrassed to work in tech.

herdrick• 12 years ago

First, this stuff isn't small potatoes. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sharing_economy

Second, if that kind of thing isn't what you want to work on, fine, don't. No one is trying to push you into that. Knock off the hating.

tomhoward• 12 years ago

Embarrassed to work in an industry that can welcome and support founders solving problems as profound as enery/cleantech, health, transportation and food, but also diverse enough to address real frustrations and economic problems faced by women?

Like everything else in life, nobody is forcing you to buy the product or join/invest in the company.

But to sneer at its right to exist is both short-sighted and mean.

jenius2• 12 years ago

Let's again recap the "problem" this is "solving":

"I have so many clothes but I still don't like any of them, ugh"

You honestly think this is addressing real frustrations and economic problems faced by women? You honestly think this has value because it adds to the "diversity" of our industry? You honestly think this is a problem worth big investment dollars, and multiple people spending years of their lives on?

I see startups pouring millions of dollars and many brilliant minds into solving first world problems so frequently, and I honestly try to cut them as much slack as I can. Maybe uber is a huge first world problem, but at least they are creating jobs for people that need them. Maybe airbnb is a first world problem, but at least they are connecting people and communities in a meaningful way, and spend a lot of time encouraging and highlighting stories about this.

I don't just go around being an asshole to any startup that isn't aiming to eliminate world hunger. But this particular description of the problem is so entitled and self-indulgent that it just makes me furious. Even you saying this is valid because it "addresses frustrations and economic problems faced by women" is absurd. I'm pretty sure 99% of women in the world would be overjoyed if they suddenly faced the problem of "having too many clothes and not knowing what to wear".

I think saying that I sneer at its right to exist would be an understatement. It actually makes me furious that people are dedicating their careers and pouring hundreds of thousands of dollars into solving "problems" like this. If that makes me mean, so be it, at least my view of the world extends at least a tiny bit outside the absolutely ridiculous first world bubble that this could only be accepted inside of.

mindcrime5• 12 years ago

One thing Nikki has going for her is that she's young. At 22 and already having the experience she's had, she has a great opportunity to learn from those lessons, tap into the network she's built, and ultimately do something great.

I love the aggressiveness and the spunk she clearly has. Looking back on my own life (I'm one of the "older crowd" in HN terms), I wish I'd been that ambitious at that age. Or, maybe ambitious isn't the word, maybe "focused" would be better. In either case, I wound up waiting until my late 30's to found a startup and now I'll be 41 in about a month, and we're still looking for the mystical, mythical "traction". :-)

The downside is, being this old, I feel a certain sense of "this is my last shot". If I fail with Fogbeam Labs, I doubt I'll have the energy, passion, drive, and mojo to try again. So if there's a lesson in my experience, that I'd try to share with the younger crowd, it would be "Be more like Nikki, and less like Phil". :-)

gclaramunt• 12 years ago

Strange, I just turned 40 and I feel better prepared than ever :)

mindcrime5• 12 years ago

Yeah, that's kinda the "catch 22" of it all. I'm definitely more prepared now, for sure. But my feeling is, if this startup fails, by the time it fails (and I won't give up until I'm verging on death anyway), I don't expect to be able to muster up enough mojo to pour this kind of energy into another shot. Whether it's emotionally, mentally, spiritually or physically, I think I'll be spent once this is over.

Now maybe I'm wrong, so who knows...

balls1873• 12 years ago

Flipside, if she started 99dresses at age 32, would it have failed for the same reasons?

carrotleads2• 12 years ago

She would not have had teh same idea but if she did, she would have dealt it lot better IMO.

The advantages of age( if you are still open minded & not set in your ways) is huge but seems discounted in the YC and VC world. from y'day https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7930428

from long back https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7455757

VLM• 12 years ago

At that advanced age, due to ageism in the tech field, by the time it failed, she would be lucky to be hired as a people greeter at walmart, much less be permitted to "ultimately do something great". At her current age, she will be OK.

You can do great things as a retail cashier, or a waitress, its just easier to do great things when your job has at least something to do with it.

clarebear2• 12 years ago

I cringed at the description of "a lady who took an obvious immediate disliking to me" in the visa office. It made me sad to recall times that a woman has controlled my destiny and denied me for whatever reason when the men would have let me in. I'm so sorry that Nikki also knows what that feels and looks like. I hope my daughter never does.

groby_b2• 12 years ago

It's not a gender issue, it's a U.S. bureaucracy issue. They're all little tinpot dictators who like making up rules on the spot - and U.S. bureaucracy design takes away many avenues of recourse, so they get away with it.

I've experienced them when immigrating to the U.S., at the DMV, when getting inspections for contractor work. The little $*(#@ get off on making you feel helpless.

Who picks on you seems to have to do with what vibe you give off. I did notice that both my partner and I attract a certain class of them, but thankfully we don't overlap. So by now, we know who gets to deal with which idiot.

zo1• 12 years ago

"* it's a U.S. bureaucracy issue*" It's an issue everywhere, not just in the US.

clarebear2• 12 years ago

I agree with the "who picks on you seems to have to do with what vibe you give off" sentiment. Perhaps I over interpreted from Nikki's description, but I have seen and experienced smart, young(ish), accomplished women sometimes get sabotaged by older women in bureaucratic or middle management type roles. I could imagine that whatever that thing is might have been what motivated the "tinpot dictator who likes making up rules on the spot" to choose Nikki to power trip on and feel helpless. I don't know whether they are jealous, they feel helpless and therefore like watching others feel that way, think they are protecting young women from roles they aren't ready for, are just having a bad day or they met that kind of resistance and now think it builds character. It doesn't really matter. But it certainly hurt 99dresses and that makes me sad.

justsee• 12 years ago

I think you can safely assume "a lady" is merely descriptive, and not accusatory, unless you're searching for prose to be offended by.

If it was a man, and the sentence included "a man" I could also imagine a snide comment from some male commentator accusing her of misandry.

Can't win!

greghinch• 12 years ago

Quite a roller coaster of experience for 22! I'm sure we'll see great things from Nikki in coming years.

You kids doing startups in your early 20s have so much going for you! I wish I'd not waited until my 30s to get on this train, there's a lot more to lose (and less time to sort something out...)

iD3• 12 years ago

22 is so young.

At 21 I was on a plane headed home from another country. I cried in the office. I cried on the plane home. We'd Burned almost half a million dollars, a couple of years of work, let go a team - and had nothing to show for it. With no degree, no more money and no job I moved back in with parents.

So I suppose this article resonates, and in the most literal sense - I've been there.

I think the hardest thing for me at that moment in time was I didn't really have a handle on just how young I was and how much more I had coming. It was all I'd really done with my life up to that point.

It's taken me quite a few years to gain that perspective, and it's a difficult thing to communicate. The world is inconceivably vast and expansive and you have the next half century to build within it. Yourself, your ideas, your creations.

At that age and on that scale it's only a failure in the moment. Then, as time passes it becomes just another step along the way. It imparted knowledge upon you, and opened doors you don't even know about yet. All of the parts that hurt fade away and you're just left with the experience gained.

The fast-paced echo-chamber of the technology startup world is a particularly hard environment to step back and get a real sense of perspective in, which makes it a particularly hard environment to fail in, especially as you'll always be reading about someone else magically killing it.

I've failed since then, and I've succeeded since then. But as the years roll by, I've come to realise that the winning and losing don't even matter, because the journey just keeps on going regardless. If I saw myself now, when I was on that plane at 21, I'd have thought I was looking at someone who had mythically 'made it'. But you know what? I haven't. It's exactly the same: I've got another 40-odd-years of succeeding and failing ahead of me, in both my personal life and my professional life.

Personally I find that quite cathartic.

chong73• 12 years ago

22 is young. yeah, when kids in other countries can't even get food , walk 10km for glass of water we are wasting money on these so called , self proclaimed "start up" people and promote such behavior.

voltagex_2• 12 years ago

Dude, every single post you've made in this thread is negative.

Yes, hardship is relative. Yes, hardship in a first world country is relatively easy (compared to your example)

Some of these startups are targetting the developing world - if it takes a few fashion startups to get there, so be it. You don't know what Nikki's second, third, fourth or fifth venture will be.

the_watcher• 12 years ago

> You rarely hear the raw stories of startups that persevered but ultimately failed — the emotional roller coaster of the founders, and why their startups didn’t work out.

I feel like I've read this sentence, or a version of it, so many times that it self-refutes. You hear plenty about people who failed. Not as often as the next big thing (since no one puts in the effort to send out press releases about how their failure happened - although that actually might be an interesting strategy for figuring out a next step if the post-mortem is honest enough), but it feels like once a week or so a post like this hits the front of HN.

GuiA2• 12 years ago

Yes, because you're on HN, where a lot of startup founders hang out. Statistically, there will be a lot of failed startup founders in HN.

However, you won't hear about those guys in Forbes Magazine, on the evening news, or in your business school classes.

UVB-76• 12 years ago

Strange as it might sound, I'm rather envious of Nikki.

Although the business didn't work out, to have gained so much life experience at such a young age is incredible.

AndrewWarner4• 12 years ago

Nikki, I just sent you a request for an interview on Mixergy. This is a courageous post.

aymeric• 12 years ago

Would be great to hear about Nikki on Mixergy. (Hi Andrew)

chong73• 12 years ago

is this a joke ? why are you telling others ?

AndrewWarner4• 12 years ago

No joke. I've gotten some of my best guests by commenting on Hacker News. The community here is incredible.

I would usually just leave it at an email, but I imagine her inbox is flooded after this incredible post. Also, I'm hoping her friends will see this and help me connect with her.

scott_karana• 12 years ago

Nikki made it very clear that she felt talking about failed startups is valuable, and even suggested a curated collection. Mixergy would bring a nice big spotlight where she asked for it.

dools5• 12 years ago

Haha and I just posted a list of my favourite "fail" interviews from Mixergy :)

I'd love to see the interview!

AndrewWarner4• 12 years ago

Update: She's in. I'll post it on the site soon.

mindcrime5• 12 years ago

As a very wise man once said[1]

"It ain't about hard you hit, it's about how hard you can get hit and keep moving forward, how much you can take and keep moving forward. That's how winning is done. Now if you know what you're worth, now go out and get what you're worth".

[1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_Z5OookwOoY

dkersten• 12 years ago

Just don't let it stop you on whatever your next venture will be! The experience will stand for you.

I had a startup crash and burn almost a year ago now. We wrote a blog post about it too: http://blog.piratedashboard.com/post/69595110761/out-of-the-... Basically, we made a ton of mistakes that ultimately led to a founder disagreement that prevented us from closing an investment deal which may have saved us. So we cut our losses and moved on. My new startup has evolved a lot from what is mentioned in that blog post and is doing well so far (but not yet at the stage where I feel secure).

Losing your startup is almost like losing a loved one. After putting so much into it, when its gone it sucks. Really bad.

But in the end, you just gotta move on and not let one failure stop you.

captainderp• 12 years ago

"It got to the point where I had to call the consulate hotline every single day and split test different types of crying…”

"for some reason a 5'11 woman in 7 inch heels commands more talking time and attention from investors…”

"As a woman going out in NYC my nights were normally cheap because cute guys would buy me drinks, but I am not the kind of woman who expects that.”

Why did YC ever bet on such a dud? Like honestly good on you for trying and all but you sound very immature. I don't mean that in a negative way I mean that in having read your post that's how you come across. Your cofounders decided to leave you and you are calling them out - I wouldn't blame them at all - they made a choice and their equity would not have vested. Cofounder’s have walked away from much larger startups than yours and its for the reason that they did not believe in your vision. Seems kind of immature to call them out. No one wants to be led by someone who responds to their problems by sobbing.

Its a shame YC bet so big on a non-technical founder because you give non-technical founders a bad name. They got you in Forbes, Business Insider, The Wall Street Journal, and numerous other publications. The Stripe brothers had a billion dollar company before even getting half the notoriety you got. For a two-sided marketplace that's like getting to start a mile race with a kilometer lead. Any startup that gets such a ridiculous head start (global publications covering you before you get to 100,000 members) comes down to a failure to execute.

frostli• 12 years ago

She's being ultra honest here about her feelings and opinions. You can agree or not but before you judge too hard, think twice how hard is it to tell your startup story when it fails. We are all young and naive once, hence we learn and grow.

yepyepyep• 12 years ago

You rarely hear the raw stories of startups that persevered but ultimately failed — the emotional roller coaster of the founders, and why their startups didn’t work out.

Great post. However, when guys paint the other gender with a similar broad stroke as here, we go after them. I hope posts like this make it okay to state our general observations about the other gender.

crassus4• 12 years ago

That's because our culture is sick. Generalizations about gender has been the main stuff of art, literature, and personal correspondence for 500 years - only now are they offensive.

kevinalexbrown• 12 years ago

I take complete responsibility for this failure. Were other people involved in 99dresses? Of course. Was any of this their fault? Absolutely not.

I understand what you're going for here (and it's nice), but it's fair to let your team share responsibility for the defeat. Otherwise it never really feels like they were part of the successes.

te_chris• 12 years ago

I've just published a similar piece and came to an almost identical conclusion. I can't speak for her, but in my opinion everything is everyone's fault: success and failure. I'm assuming that's what she's getting at, the idea that if something's going wrong and none of you did anything about it, then it's everyone's fault.

nikkidurkin8• 12 years ago

At the end of the day, I am the CEO of the company. It was my leadership that got us here. Even if something wasn't executed right by one person on the team, that is still my responsibility. Furthermore, we were killed because we ran out of money - also my responsibility. That's the point I'm trying to make.

carrotleads2• 12 years ago

IMO whenever I have led something, I share the credits and take full responsibility of the failures. I say the same thing to my kids, be it their hockey game or drama team. If someone else screwed up in the team, they mostly know it and I don't need to point it out publicly. I do it privately. Its their choice if they want to own up publicly.

Again IMO Nikki's was right to gloss it over and doing so kept focus on the main theme.

simonw• 12 years ago

Good leadership means personally taking the blame for failure while ensuring your team gets the credit for success.

dicroce• 12 years ago

Yeah, you failed... but you put yourself out there... that's what really living is all about.

jacquesm2• 12 years ago

I had to fly back to Australia to get a working visa as soon as the funding paperwork was signed, and the next day my two “co-founders” decided to tell me they were leaving the company without even a hint of warning.

Hindsight and all that. But still, don't just take on anybody as co-founder, easy come, easy go.

Super tough to read all this, I'm really sorry your hard work did not work out but you've done all that could be required of you and then some.

I very much recognize your trust issues, but over time even that will fade.

chong73• 12 years ago

that's good point.

McDoku• 12 years ago

I have to agree. Co-founders suck. Everyone wants to talk and to have people look up to you. To imagine that one day you will rule the world.

The truth is that creating anything new in this world is a bag of hammers. Glory comes from the stupid, respect from the learned.

skizm• 12 years ago

Maybe I missed it, but how did the author get going with 99dresses as a non-technical person with no college degree?

EDIT: Nevermind. Found the answers. Turns out to be a pretty cool story actually: http://wpcurve.com/y-combinator/

crassus4• 12 years ago

The crazy thing is that people go through this experience and want to do it again. A failed startup leaves you burned out, emotionally wrecked, and financially crippled. Why take another ride on that roller coaster? Pride? Status? Money?

jggonz• 12 years ago

For the same reason you ride a roller coaster: For the thrill of the ride.

You also get to work for something you care about.

And yes, there's the possibility of high financial rewards, but that's unlikely.

bluesix3• 12 years ago

For many of us, we just can't help it - it's an innate part of us - to build something.

tmsh• 12 years ago

My uncle used to say that instead of having the handful of successful entrepreneurs come back to b school to tell their war stories -- they should sponsor at least one lecture of an entrepreneur who, in their most recent enterprise, failed. And I would tend to agree.

Very well-written. Makes your readers stronger in novel ways for reading it. Thanks for sharing.

It's all about knowing how to light up parts of the graph in life though. Now you know. Second time will go further.

ilaksh• 12 years ago

The part that I really am not sure of is the difference between failing and giving up or the difference between failing and pivoting. Or is failing just when you have to get a full time job?

mbesto2• 12 years ago

This is what failure feels like. I hope it helps.

It does help. Keep writing. Welcome to the club :)

boyter2• 12 years ago

I met Nikki in Sydney while at a start-up camp.

I will admit to being slightly jealous because she did get a lot of attention due to what I thought was solely being a tall attractive female that dresses well. However having read this seeing and seeing how this played into her impostor syndrome has made me re-evaluate my thinking. The attention might be useful, but I can totally understand questioning if its because its who you are or what you are doing. Since everything in the start up world is about what you are doing I can see this attention leaving you with self doubt.

She certainly has done more then I have, and at a far younger age.

Sorry for the bad thoughts Nikki. I had been following 99dresses loosely over the years and I had hoped you would succeed as there are so few start-up stories that come out of Sydney. Wishing you the best of luck with whatever you chose to do in the future.

nooron• 12 years ago

You're a good person for acknowledging this and offering her such kind words. Everyone's got biases and resentment, but you just discharged yours with genuine dignity. Please take care.

lubos• 12 years ago

So I see another startup failed story. Thinking I'll read it later after getting something done. an hour later, I start reading...

Right in the first sentence I see "99dresses". I have to admit, it took me a minute to process what's going on. She has been receiving significant coverage in mainstream Australian media. As someone, who is running startup from Sydney (there aren't so many of us), this felt like someone in your family has passed away even though I've never even met Nikki.

I'm not even sure what I'm writing here... I just feel sad.

boyter2• 12 years ago

I did the same thing. Thought I would read later, saw 99dresses and kept reading.

Sydney is pretty insular and almost everyone knows everyone else if not by reputation then personally.

danieltillett2• 12 years ago

I am based in Sydney. I am not running what could be called a startup since my tech business has been running since 1999, but I do have a lot of experience with the the whole startup process. Is there a meetup of startup founders in Sydney?

bluesix3• 12 years ago

Almost daily. All over the place. Meetup.com is flooded with them.

dools5• 12 years ago

Get a desk at Fishburners.org ... that's where I met Nikki :)

dools5• 12 years ago

You should get a desk at Fishburners.org!

TimJRobinson• 12 years ago

I felt exactly the same. I'm based in Brisbane and have seen 99dresses mentioned many many times in the media and startup communities around here. I'm amazed and incredibly saddened that it didn't work out.

semerda• 12 years ago

Nikki, thanks for sharing your story. You definitely experienced alot!

It sounds like you hit 2 of the biggest issues startups can face. Co-founder disputes and Product issues.

Re Co-founder disputes - once money gets involved and the cap table is in your favor in the early days, the st will hit the fan. Raising money dilutes everyone and that too has a negative effect of the minority holders and can create some bad energy.

As you found out working with the right people is super super important. What I have found that has worked super well for me is working with people I have worked with before. One, you know they are good (the ones you choose to start a business with them) and the honeymoon period doesn't exist so its all about execution. I don't believe in cofounder dating events.

As you found out having a mobile product is a big deal. People are mobile creates. Even more now then ever. So being able to reach them via the computer in their pocket is an opportunity not to be missed.

Regarding the Visas, E2 Visa would have gotten you into USA. Or you could have setup an entity remotely in USA and through the company setup E3/H1B for yourself and your cofounder. There are some obstacles to jump but possible with the right legal/immigration team.

Finally, I didn't see in your story mention of an advisory board? I have found that getting the right people around you can open doors to investors, industry people, advise on technology, product etc... highly recommended if you can use them wisely.

Overall I believe the experience you have gained at such a young age will only set you up for big success in the future. Don't give up and keep on going! Good luck!

ecesena• 12 years ago

+1 for the E2 visa, as an option to take into account (I'm an Italian in SF with a 5y E2 visa)

pasharayan• 12 years ago

Hi Nikki, shame to see 99 dresses go down, wishing you the best post startup run.

If there were three things you would do differently, what would they be?

31reasons• 12 years ago

Wow I am kind of jealous of getting an opportunity to fail so spectacularly. It is obviously very hard but Nikki is very young and decades ahead of her to try new ventures. I call this great learning experience a success if you haven't lost your arm or a leg and can still function as a normal human being. She is definitely a winner, its pretty obvious to me.

pyfish• 12 years ago

Great write up. I look forward to when she is recharged and build the next great thing.

nostromo• 12 years ago

Sometimes I wonder how non-technical founders can sleep at night with all the stress. It elevates cofounder risk to a single point of failure for the entire company.

Seeing through "developer bullshitting" is a dark art that is hard to master without spending a bit of time as a developer.

austenallred• 12 years ago

Indeed. As a former non-technical founder (now semi-technical), the worst part of the fear of failure is that your "job" is keeping companies alive. If your company dies, not only is your company a failure, but your only "skill set" is called into question. Knowing that fact and simultaneously being unable to contribute directly to the product, wondering how hard you can push your technical co-founder/team (or how far is right?) is enough to drive one insane.

It was easier (and more beneficial) for me to learn how to program. I'm not the most technical one on the team, but at least I can pitch in and work instead of wonder.

trevmckendrick• 12 years ago

A thousand times this.

The worse case scenario is much, much worse for non-technical cofounders.

They often don't have a deep, specialized skill that is easily used by other companies.

digita88• 12 years ago

Similar position, I see start-up memorandums by full or mostly tech founders in which their common concern has been around building the wrong product or not knowing the customer. Yet being a 'non tech founder' or even 'semi tech founder' raises red flags.

balls1873• 12 years ago

Seeing through "developer bullshitting" is a dark art that is hard to master without spending a bit of time as a developer.

Or figure out how to get a technical co-founder you trust.

Developer Bullshit is a people problem, and if you have that problem, no amount of dark-art mastery will help your company survive.

7Figures2Commas2• 12 years ago

Sometimes I wonder how technical founders can sleep at night with all the stress. After all, the number of technical founders who can effectively sell is small, so most of them have a single point of failure too, just on the other side of the business.

The harsh truth is that lot of non-technical founders set themselves up for failure precisely because they're limited to the pool of developers who will consider a co-founder relationship. If you're a solid developer with a proven track record of shipping, there's very little incentive to join a venture run by somebody you don't know very well for less than market pay, and in some cases little to no pay.

You typically get what you pay for, which is why more entrepreneurs should skip the technical co-founder nonsense and hire an experienced contractor or shop with a solid portfolio and references. If you don't have the money to do this, it's worth rethinking whether you're in a position to start a business in the first place.

aagha2• 12 years ago

Fantastic. I think technical founders think they're set, only to realize building something is only part of the equation. Marketing, selling, customer support, customer happiness/retention are all skills necessary skills to make a business successful.

rcaught• 12 years ago

Sometimes I wonder how non-technical founders can sleep at night with all the stress. It elevates cofounder risk to a single point of failure for the entire company.

This is not exclusive to non-technical founders.

Seeing through "developer bullshitting" is a dark art that is hard to master without spending a bit of time as a developer.

Within a group of people striving for the same success, the idea of "bullshit" is often coined by those not wanting to take the time to understand the perspective of others. There is a communication and priority disconnect in most companies between the technical and non-technical; with both sides to blame.

mbesto2• 12 years ago

When you start learning the difference between "poor" and "broke" the stress usually goes away.

For anyone that doesn't understand - being poor means you have nothing, being broke means you are still accumulate wealth, it just means you don't have cash, but more intelligence. I suspect Nikki has banked loads of intellectual wealth from her journey.

Domenic_S• 12 years ago

Broke is a circumstance. Poor is a state of mind/being.

vijayboyapati• 12 years ago

I was in the same YC batch as Nikki. The thing I remember most about her was her enthusiasm. I also remember that her presentation on Demo Day got the loudest applause and most interest. Sad to hear 99dresses didn't make it, but I'm sure Nikki will have a bright future. Few young women her age will have gained the experience and insight that comes from founding a company and seeing it fail. As Michael Jordan said "I've missed more than 9000 shots in my career. I've lost almost 300 games. 26 times, I've been trusted to take the game winning shot and missed. I've failed over and over and over again in my life. And that is why I succeed."

dopamean• 12 years ago

What I like most about that MJ quote is that all the stats link up. If he has made those 26 game winning shots he would have had not lost "almost 300 games" and he would have missed fewer than the "more than 9000" shots that he missed. Man, he was awesome.

matwood• 12 years ago

Also interesting is that he knew those stats in order to make the quote. He was known for remembering every little slight, stat, etc... in order to use as motivation. I picture a little piece of paper with 25 written on it, and him thinking he does not want to write 26.

aagha2• 12 years ago

Man, that quote was awesome!

XorNot• 12 years ago

So I remember hearing about 99dresses in the Australian press, and this write up does leave me wondering the same thing I was wondering at the time:

Was the product ever successful in Australia?

Fully 20% of Australia's entire population is concentrated in Sydney alone - what was the expected total market (for a product heavily invested in shipping physical items) that didn't work here that there was a need to, apparently, move so quickly and wholly into the US?

nish1500• 12 years ago

Your story is mostly about you not getting a VISA, getting back-stabbed by people, spending 2 months fund-raising, media coverage, personal issues, your age, your gender. There is hardly anything about why the startup failed.

But maybe the article isn't about the startup - it's about the emotional ride. Maybe that's why a lot of startups fail - they get so involved with other things, it's not about the startup anymore.

bluesix3• 12 years ago

All the issues she mentioned are HUGE parts of building a successful business that absolutely everyone will go through.

andrewstuart3• 12 years ago

Too few female founders around. YC should shepherd this girl straight back into the game and support her.

spada• 12 years ago

She hardly comes off as the type of person that wants affirmative action. I'm not being a white knight here but that comment is kinda insulting to her.

andrewstuart3• 12 years ago

Not in the slightest insulting. All I see in this girl is that she is following the fairly normal path that non-Zuckerbergian founders go through. She's smart and motivated and getting some good experience under her belt early. If she is not supported to rapidly pick herself up and dust herseld off then she might not be back in the game for years. A failed venture can take years to recover from financially etc. The lack of women co founders is a constant issue now in the industry so when we find good ones then they deserve some extra help.

spion• 12 years ago

I don't think I've ever read a story about failure that felt this motivating and inspiring. Thank you for sharing it.

cdelsolar• 12 years ago

The site is still up and you have a core group of people who love it. Can't you just keep it and the app running for now? The costs for the servers can't be that high.

jasonlgrimes• 12 years ago

Literally, the best thing I read today. Well thought out and written. Keep rocking Nikki!

samstave2• 12 years ago

Amazing read. And I recall when I first saw 99 dresses how much I recognized the need, where my wife has literally hundreds of dresses and doesn't wear much multiple times.

On mobile but will elaborate on this as I think the idea was amazing but could have also benefitted from something specific...

EDIT:

My wife as a great style sense - and also reasonable with her money. She would find amazing fashions at Crossroads in San Francisco where she could find desirable brands like D&G, BCBG and other smaller labels where women sold their designer clothes at a discount.

She picked up MANY amazing dresses from this place, as well as shoes. She hardly recycled dresses for events or dates and did it economically.

If 99Dresses had coupled with places like this where they had rental inventory as well, I am sure this would have been an amazing offering.

You could have had a daily rental price, as well as an option so that if the owner chose; a sell price.

A place like crossroads was actually pretty good at being discerning, yet well priced in their garments.

It would also had been an opportunity to provide brick-and-mortar fitting rooms... as well as local inventory. Connect this with a garment style ID and a "different sizes available via online at locations X Y and Z.

DISCLAIMER: Did 99Dresses have all this already?

I am amazed it did fail - I LOVED the BM and Idea.

ma2rten• 12 years ago

It looks like they failed, because of a string of bad luck, despite having a good business idea.

graeme• 12 years ago

Thank you for writing this. I've bootstrapped my business. For the first 2.5 years, cashflow was tight. You've described the fears I had of seeing it all crumble, not necessarily because the idea was bad, but because the friction was too great.

I hadn't heard of your startup before this post. But from reading the comments here, you and your startup are very well regarded.

I doubt it feels that way right now, but I think you have a bright future ahead of you. Take some time to process and relax. Good luck!

kapupetri2• 12 years ago

I think your startup was doomed to fail because your business idea just sucked.

hakcermani• 12 years ago

You have achieved so much at such a young age. Your whole life is ahead of you. I am 50+ and working on my first startup, with hopes that I will make it someday ! Glad you shared your story. See this link - so many stories here, some very close to home for you. (http://www.fastcompany.com/3029883/bottom-line/11-famous-ent...). Take a break, clear your head, and come up with the next big thing.

Fede_V• 12 years ago

Thanks for being so raw and honest about this - even the less glamorous parts. It isn't easy to talk honestly about issues like gendered expectations and approaching VC, black hat marketing, or emotional manipulation for Visa, and a lot of people would have chosen to gloss over those aspects, but it takes a lot of guts to be upfront about the darker sides of running your company.

Reading this, it confirmed an important lesson that I learned in a completely different setting (grad school). It's much, much better to do an impossible project with an excellent mentor and fantastic coworkers, than an easy project full of low hanging fruits with colleagues you can't stand.

People who were in the former condition all flourished, even if it meant pivoting to a completely different project after having invested 2 years in a dead end idea. People in the latter camp burnt out completely and almost uniformly dropped out of grad school. The few that stayed were basically running on spite the entire time.

ehurrell2• 12 years ago

Reading this, it confirmed an important lesson that I learned in a completely different setting (grad school). It's much, much better to do an impossible project with an excellent mentor and fantastic coworkers, than an easy project full of low hanging fruits with colleagues you can't stand.

This really is a vital lesson, but can be difficult to learn. After the first startup I was in folded I helped found another with some of the same people, because I believed we were a good team that could go somewhere. Quite soon after we pivoted from an interesting problem to 'low-hanging fruit', and the team dynamics began to change rapidly, in a way that prevented progress (suddenly there was a lot of ego). It quickly became clear that things were untenable, so I left. Since leaving everything has pointed to it being the only correct choice. I still made the mistake of trusting them to tie up financials properly. Things can degrade faster than your loyalties account for, but you can pick yourself up and learn from it.

yoanizer• 12 years ago

I know failure success. You just have to deal with it. Sometimes it's so hard that you have lock yourself in your room cry, and curse the world. That's fine.

That's just something you have to go through on your road to success.

dools5• 12 years ago

This is a "fail story" that stuck with me -- wish I'd been able to suggest it when you were looking for stories similar to your own!

http://blog.jazzychad.net/2011/05/02/startups-are-hard.html

Also here are some Mixergy.com interviews that I've enjoyed from failed entrepreneurs:

http://mixergy.com/interviews/adyin-mirzaee-fluidware-interv...

http://mixergy.com/interviews/chris-snook-no-limit-publishin...

http://mixergy.com/interviews/rene-eric-forecast-interview/

http://mixergy.com/interviews/dean-soukeras-computergiants-i...

http://mixergy.com/interviews/mark-bowness-tribewanted-inter...

http://mixergy.com/interviews/james-altucher-failseries-inte...

http://mixergy.com/interviews/eric-ingram-redtagcrazy-interv...

http://mixergy.com/interviews/sebastian-replanski-search-to-...

This is with Chad who's posted I started with:

http://mixergy.com/interviews/etzel-notifo-interview/

And, finally, if I were leaving New York, I'd listen to this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0t4i7frhNUs

Hope you're feeling better and looking forward to seeing you sometime 'round Fishburners :)

AndrewWarner4• 12 years ago

Here's one more.

Hiten Shah used to run a web hosting company.

http://mixergy.com/interviews/kissmetrics-hiten-shah-intervi...

dools5• 12 years ago

Sweet! Hadn't seen that one yet!

mathieug• 12 years ago

Hey Nikki. Have you thought about learning how to code? It's really never as hard as it seems to be. If you had a business model and some level of revenues then you might be able to sustain yourself financially, run everything yourself and keep it going maybe!?

Probably too late for that kind of advice though. But I believe a start up dies if you give it up. But you don't have to let it if you don't want to. Sometimes that's the most reasonable thing to do, but you don't always have to.

I'm in the same case as you. I had to let go of all my employees, Couldn't pay them anymore. And I'm now the only one on board doing all the code, design, marketing and everything. I'm just too stubborn to give up and I still believe in what we do 100%. (Damn I still say 'we' I mean 'I'. Just a reflex) I do feel your pain. But my best advice is to try to learn how to code and sketch things yourself. With all the skills that you accumulated you'll be able to create prototype rapidly, be less dependable and bounce back rapidly and next time you'll be fearless. Food for thoughts ;-) I wish you the all the best for your next adventures.

nichochar• 12 years ago

Good story. On a completely unrelated note, this girl is very beautiful, so that's rather positive

adventured• 12 years ago

"Maybe its because most founders are men, and men generally don’t like talking about their feelings. Maybe its because failure is embarrassing."

That would be regarded as sexist if it were arranged with such a blanket statement the other way around.

I've seen countless stories on HN where guy founders talk about the emotional side of failing and their startup going under. I'm not sure where she gets this notion. In fact, I see the emotional side written about more often than anything else. It seems like there's a few new stories every week on HN by some guy that failed, and he's discussing dealing with the substantial emotional fallout (how it affected his life, his savings, his family, his sleep, and how agonizing in general it all is).

dougabug• 12 years ago

The "sky high heels" might invite more attention, but the patronizing comments part make me wonder whether it was the right kind of attention.

"99dresses was squarely focused on trading cheaper fast fashion (fast fashion is really hard to re-sell for cash)" I wonder how much demand exists for cheap secondhand clothes which go out of style quickly. Isn't it the point of this type of clothing that people can buy it new for not much money, and not worry that that it often doesn't hold up well? The clothes themselves are probably mass produced in third world countries for next to nothing. This seems like a very vertical online thrift store.

Does the world need another online thrift store?

jpatte• 12 years ago

"Fail fast, fail early, fail often!” they all chant, trying to put a positive spin on the most excruciating pain any founder could experience."

Is it just an impression, or did she get this sentence the wrong way?

The whole point of this saying is to make you realize that failure should actually not be such a big deal. Failure isn't an dead end, it's a step forward on the difficult path of entrepreneurship. Therefore, saying things like "I couldn’t fail. This was my baby, and if it was going to fail it would be over my dead body." can only lead you, indeed, to excruciating pain in case of failure.

Resilience is an excellent quality, and I think the only way to give your best and surpass yourself is by facing real challenges, but please remember that you cannot in any way resume 4 years of ultra rich/challenging experience with the two words "I failed". Jeez, just having survived 4 years in her very first startup experience is already a success.

I sympathize with her pain; I just find it sad that she doesn't seem to realize the incredible experience and skills she gained from this adventure. Those years were absolutely not wasted; the chances of success for her next startup are incomparably higher than for her previous one, and I wish her all the best for the future.

Edit: A startup is first a human adventure. After it "failed", ask yourself the right questions: - Did I learn something? Do I know better? - Am I a different person? A better person? - Did I help some people in any way? - Did my social skills improve? Did my network grow? - What about my legal/technical/managerial/whatever-ial knowledge?

If you can answer "yes" to any of these questions, than this adventure wasn't a failure at all. :)

kevinwang• 12 years ago

I think in the article she does acknowledge that rationally, she knows that she did gain a lot of experience and skills, but she focuses on the uncontrollable emotions and feelings that she went through over the course of her last 4 years.

zeeshanm• 12 years ago

M$ was founded in mid 70s and had not made a dent until the 80s. More so their killer product was launched in the 90s that put them as the definitive leader on the map. In a way, it took roughly 20 years for M$ "to take over the world." Not to mention Gates and Allen started off writing software for traffic systems and I don't recall that was a huge hit. “Innovation” does happen relatively faster these days. But it's really hard to do one-to-one comparison of companies that are mega successful (aka they make a lot of money) and those that relatively bring in lesser revenue. Besides this I believe one really has to derive the meaning of success on her own. I would not consider you a failure by any means as you gave your best to the startup. There is so much you can take away from this experience. For example, you can write a book about your experiences as you have got a good talent for writing. You can travel around and give motivational speeches at colleges and networking events. You have got a good story to tell and I bet many of us out there would be interested in hearing about it. Don't worry too much that you could not save up. I don't think this is any way puts you behind anyone your age. I bet most kids your age have spent lots on crack, booze, food, superfluous relationships, etc. Whereas you have built a pretty good reputation that really can take you far.

dreamweapon• 12 years ago

I just knew I wanted to solve a problem I personally experienced: having a closet full of clothes but still nothing to wear.

Maybe her real problem was picking a big "problem" to solve that wasn't.

outworlder• 12 years ago

A problem is a problem if enough people think it is. There seems to be a large amount of people who agree with her.

ulisesrmzroche3• 12 years ago

Ya'll too soft around here. Truth is all the youth and heart in the world won't save you if you don't know how to throw a proper jab.

MrGando• 12 years ago

Hey there Nikki,

Nice story, I have a similar one myself. I remember that I followed 99dresses quite closely two years ago, I was the technical co-founder of a Fashion & Tech startup, and we were trying to do something really similar for a while. (I'm also foreign, got a lot of local press coverage, traveled to Silicon Valley to work etc.)

I've been the leaving co-founder of a startup, mostly because I thought (and told) that my co-founder was incompetent and bringing zero value to the table. He took it pretty bad, but at least I was honest about that (and right).

You're very young, I'm 28... my biggest advice would be for you to get a stronger technical background. You can still do it, you are young, and it would greatly empower you.

If you wanna have a chat shoot me an email or add me on skype 'n_goles'.

Cheers!

inventor• 12 years ago

I've developed a survival guide for creative geniuses. It's called Die Penniless, and people can sign up here for first access: http://diepenniless.com

andretti1977• 12 years ago

Even if i obviously understand why she felt that way, there is something really wrong in the way she thinks: she didn't fail. It was the startup that failed. She felt bad because she impersonified her project. But a person is not the things she creates or tryies to create. That is a misconception. And this wrong (even if understandable) way of thinking, may drive people to depression and other dangerous situations. Please, remember that we live once and that we are not the things we create: we, as people, are much more valuable than anything we can do.

matheusbn• 12 years ago

Well if this is some kind a support I really don't know, but I think she should be proud, because with only 22 years old and doing all this (trip to another country, leading a startup). I wish you more luck on your another attempt.

thomaspun• 12 years ago

Thank you for sharing your story.

My YC startup failed two years ago and it still has an impact on me. I learned a lot and wish I knew what I know now back then. My cofounders parted ways within one year of YC and I became a self made single founder. One of the biggest mistakes was not taking breaks. I thought I had to work twice as hard to compensate. It just went into this vicious cycle: depressed & tired -> not productive -> worked every waking moments -> depressed & tired.

rwhitman• 12 years ago

I've worked with a weirdly large number of female-run and female-focused startups and clients over the years. I could write a long, blunt tirade about this.

Basically the cards are stacked against these businesses from the day they are funded.

Male tech folks make a lot of false assumptions about female focused businesses. For investors it can mean leaving a complicated business model under-funded. For developers it means blindly taking a “cofounder” title in exchange for an equity-heavy compensation deal without thinking through what it means to work on a business you aren’t passionate about, for years, at reduced pay.

In both cases, if there isn't an early slam-dunk hockey stick marker of success, guys don’t have the stamina to tolerate a female-focused business for very long. They bail. The company never gets its next round of funding. The engineering talent runs for the hills. Its not cool to work on a company for girls, especially a struggling company for girls. So male talent will just split as soon as the going gets rough.

Each time the company has a setback, the guys all start to bail. So the company needs to find new talent and appease many people at every little bump in the road. This is hugely costly and results in a lot of unnecessary crisis moments, doubts, and subsequent pivots.

The sad part is that a lot of female founders leave startups for good after one failure. I have a linkedin network filled with former female founder superstars who work in humdrum non-tech management roles. Women take the loss on a much more personal level than men do. So every time a female founder is stunted, and then abandoned by her male support network, she may be gone for good.

What’s the solution? I’m not sure, but I think it has a lot to do with adding more female investors and developers to the world. That and encouraging more former female founders to come back, mentor and try again

aml183• 12 years ago

Great article!

lizzard• 12 years ago

I wish you the best of luck in your next venture, whether it's a startup or not. Lots of people are serial entrepreneurs!

joeljp• 12 years ago

Nikki, I know so many people that would give 10 years of their lives to experience the highs and lows that you just had. There are already enough cliches on here to keep you going. My hat off to you for giving it a real good go and I wish you every success in the future. You'll do just fine and will look back at this with a smile.

wauter• 12 years ago

Just curious: why is there nothing anounced on 99dresses.com about this? Will the business go on after all? Are we in the final days and will it then just suddenly out of the blue shut down?

blergh123• 12 years ago

Oh, the other co-founder was Dan Walker - he's a bit of a flake so this isn't at all surprising.

My startup failed, and this is what it feels like

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