After 20 years the Dwarf Fortress devs have to get used to being millionaires

https://www.pcgamer.com/after-spending-20-years-simulating-reality-the-dwarf-fortress-devs-have-to-get-used-to-a-new-one-being-millionaires/

by robin_reala • 4 years ago

674 409 4 years ago

pcgamer.com

TrevorJ• 4 years ago

They are definitely in 'set for life if we make wise choices' territory. In another month I'm betting they will be in 'set for life even if we make foolish choices' territory. I'm really happy for them. They really stayed true to their passion and I'm happy to see them rewarded for this.

eadmund• 4 years ago

In another month I'm betting they will be in 'set for life even if we make foolish choices' territory.

I hope so, but it is amazing how quickly one can burn through money by making foolish choices. Or just being unlucky. I can’t be the only one who remembers esr being worth tens of millions on paper, then losing basically all of it.

syeare• 4 years ago

Are you talking about Eric Raymond? The Cathedral and The Bazaar? I never knew he struck it rich

DonHopkins3• 4 years ago

It wasn't bad luck, it was bad karma. ESR earned so much bad karma by being such a terrible racist jackass that he deserved to lose it all.

datalopers6• 4 years ago

Are they? 300,000 units * $30 = $9M - 30% Steam tax = $6.3M in a single year take out federal taxes (just gonna call it 36% and ignore SFJ/MFJ), leaves them about $2M each. I'm sure they're some sort of a legal entity in WA state and will owe the b&o tax too.

They deserve it absolutely but $2M each does not put them in a position of "fuck you" [1].

[1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xdfeXqHFmPI

Arrath2• 4 years ago

I also read, though who knows whether the source was at all accurate, that after the Steam cut, Kitfox takes a goodly chunk (north of 50% IIRC) out until their own expenses for development are paid, and then their cut ratchets down to 20% or so.

TacticalCoder• 4 years ago

That's 300 000 units in 7 days since launch if I understand it correctly. Even if we consider (I don't know if that's true or not), that theses 7 days are going to be the best ever for them that's still only 7 days.

ericd• 4 years ago

It’s on a million wishlists, and this game is evergreen, it’s going to get there.

opportune4• 4 years ago

If they’re smart they hopefully have incorporated and will only need to take money out of the corporation to pay themselves to cover their expenses. So they won’t pay tax on the full amount up front and will have most of the money pretax for future business expenses

bulbosaur123• 4 years ago

They should incorporate an LLC and do some legal loopholes to keep more of that $$$

theptip• 4 years ago

$2m in the bank is enough to easily draw $100k/yr from interest, which fits the GP’s “set for life if we make wise choices” IMO. That is way above median income in wealthy countries. Assuming you don’t try to live in SF!

gscott• 4 years ago

They seem to live on 30k to 50k a year so even if they double their expenses they are ok.

NikolaNovak• 4 years ago

2m each is not "Fuck you" money perhaps but it is enough to comfortably retire to the original post point. It depends on lifestyle you desire but if I could retire tomorrow, I would make that lifestyle work.

ajmurmann• 4 years ago

The article also mentioned money going to other people working on the game. Unclear how's much that is though.

Edit: this also touches on a grievance I have with progressive taxation and annualized retirement savings. These guys might have been in a Lowe tax bracket for many years and be back in a low tax bracket depending on how sales go over the years. The one time they hit it home they are in the top tax bracket and can only max out tax advantages from retirement contributions for that one year. They'd be in a much better position in this regard of their income was spread out. The entire system is build assuming people earn pretty much the same year to year. Same for other self-funded founders with exits.

krzyk• 4 years ago

And publisher also needs a cut.

jujube3• 4 years ago

They are definitely in 'set for life if we make wise choices' territory

Sure it seems that way now, but what happens when a volcano appears under their house and it floods with lava? Or they go to war with the elves?

lcnPylGDnU4H9OF• 4 years ago

I'm sure they'll be able to afford volcano insurance. I bet they could even find someone who's willing to insure their homes against Elf invasions.

DoubleFree• 4 years ago

They'll just have to remember that losing is fun

opportune4• 4 years ago

It was inevitable

aidenn0• 4 years ago

technically, they are still "set for life" assuming that they are in the house when it floods with lava.

Remember: Build a man a fire and you keep him warm for one night; light a man on fire and you keep him warm for the rest of his life.

Y_Y3• 4 years ago

it will be cheaper to power the forge

erik_seaberg• 4 years ago

Stories have shown them living above ground, hopefully now they can afford a properly dwarfy fort down in a stone layer.

seanhunter• 4 years ago

This. Or one of them gets caught in the rain while fishing and decides to murder teh other one.

mensetmanusman• 4 years ago

Or if their cats start getting sick from alcohol in the blood on the floor?

ilyt2• 4 years ago

Not with american healthcare, could burn thru that pretty quickly.

...which was entire reason for Steam release in the first place

falcolas3• 4 years ago

Heartbreaking. Even with millions, cancer could destroy you financially.

One paramedic prices having a heart attack at about $400k pre-insurance† (or no insurance). Check those limits on your plan...

† Healthline has an article with another example from 2012 priced at $500k

NaturalPhallacy• 4 years ago

I hope they read this thread:

"So, what the hell DO you do if you are unlucky enough to win the lottery?" https://old.reddit.com/r/AskReddit/comments/24vo34/whats_the...

It's got some dark news, but real advice that seems legit.

Firmwarrior3• 4 years ago

~~I feel like HackerNews has enough reasonably financially-literate people that we can do better for advice to someone than that

If you're going the Reddit route, at least link to /r/fatfire or /r/personalfinance

A competent business owner coming into a windfall this size is in a pretty good spot compared to your average rando off /r/askreddit~~

EDIT: Please disregard this comment, just left it here as a monument to my own jerkness

ElijahLynn6• 4 years ago

Wow, this is such a #goodnews story!

"I'll have to rework… my, uh, whole life, figure out what the heck's going on there. I don't really have any ideas or plans right now. I've just been thinking about dwarf stuff."
"My wife has plans," Zach said. "We live in a tiny little house, so buying a new house, that's a major goal."

lostmsu• 4 years ago

This is a goodnews day. This, fusion announcement, and the Apple forced to allow 3rd party stores. Haven't had anything like it in a while.

Just bought the game out of respect even if I don't get to play it.

ElijahLynn6• 4 years ago

Oh good point on the other good news announcements!

bartvk• 4 years ago

I wonder why not he but his wife thought about improving their material circumstances? So content with his life, or so focused on the code, or something else?

bregma• 4 years ago

I suspect the part of the spectrum he is on provides the ability for very intense but very narrow focus.

pnt12• 4 years ago

Either he is that obsessive artist who pays little thought to anything else, or just wasn't ready for this sudden flux of money.

He gets to work on his dream project, and is beloved by thousands of fans. Sounds like a good life to live, even if in a tiny house!

yetihehe• 4 years ago

Focused on the code and just being happy with what he has. If you don't need much, you are more happy in life, like buddhists say.

ElijahLynn6• 4 years ago

Worth noting that in the Steam store it says Windows only right now. (no Penguin/Linux yet)

brianwawok6• 4 years ago

Yah I just looked today..

Has anyone heard? If it were Linux I would buy it now..

drmidnight• 4 years ago

I've been playing on Linux. Both on desktop and my Steam deck. Runs fine under Proton.

ozarker• 4 years ago

Works great on Proton!

ElijahLynn6• 4 years ago

Thanks, I have been on Linux for 10+ years but really haven't played much games yet, I did buy Portal on Steam for Linux ages ago. But, I hadn't heard of Proton until just now from you all! I guess I'll go see how to get that up and running.

kelnos• 4 years ago

Looks like it runs just fine under Proton, at least: https://www.protondb.com/app/975370

maxbond• 4 years ago

Woebetide same who takes protondb at face value, I use it as a source of debugging tips because I have no idea how Wine/Windows work, but you've gotta dig into the reports is my experience.

silverwind2• 4 years ago

It should be coming to Linux and Mac once they figure out the packaging.

Karrot_Kream• 4 years ago

Ooh, is this a "matter of weeks" thing? Is there a post on this the curious can follow?

rng_civ2• 4 years ago

Works great on Proton so: 6 hours in with ~20 dwarfs and decent automated production

the-smug-one• 4 years ago

Do you also experience mouse input lag? My input is constantly dropped. Test drawing ("free-hand" mode) a line of mining quickly. Are any squares missing?

fwsgonzo• 4 years ago

This is so amazing and inspiring. I was actually sitting down lately and thinking about what my next project is, as I've been working on a few other projects for a few years now, but nothing that will make any money. I think it could be fun to work on that kind of game for a long time, and not feel that pressure to deliver anything. Then hire some people at the end to make it more palatable, I guess. Question is, how much is luck when you work on something for that long? I think that in that time-frame you can do anything you set your mind to!

ElijahLynn6• 4 years ago

I love the voiceover screencapture of how to play the game on the Steam demo videos. Would like it if more apps had tutorials like that from the creators.

source: https://store.steampowered.com/app/975370/Dwarf_Fortress/

tibbydudeza3• 4 years ago

I hope they can handle this unlike Notch (Minecraft) - reckoned becoming a billionaire overnight ruined his life.

ilyt2• 4 years ago

It looks more like it showed that he's an asshole to entirety of the world. Ruining he did of his own

Minor49er• 4 years ago

I heard he gave millions of dollars to his dev team. What did he do wrong?

e_i_pi_2• 4 years ago

Just curious - what was the evidence for this before the success? I don't think people are really built to handle that much power over other people, seems like anyone that gets that much money goes down basically the same path:

- Vastly different wealth makes you unable to relate to normal people

- You have to justify that somehow to yourself and maybe others

- The easiest answer is that you're successful because you deserve it and that means other people also deserve their relative failure

- Resentment builds and you treat people differently because you see them as both failing and deserving of their failure, instead of through the lens of luck that would take away all the ego credit you built up from your perceived success

This happens in pretty much every category - top athletes think they trained harder, executives think they have a better business mind, etc. Seems like artists are the most likely ones to realize that they just got lucky and can't really claim much credit. There was a great article from the creator on the end poem in Minecraft recently about this - they literally wrote the poem but attributed it to luck/god/muses/pick-your-magical-force so didn't feel justified in claiming the royalties even though they could sue Microsoft for a DMCA violation on every copy of the game sold

tibbydudeza3• 4 years ago

Just like Elon - he has always been a racist and homophobic douche but being a billionaire rather amplified it.

flippinburgers2• 4 years ago

Unnecessary tangent.

tibbydudeza3• 4 years ago

And we are all thankful that Minecraft team is now in the safe hands of Microsoft and not Notch - it seems he was always an arsehole but it was overlooked and also forgiven because of his most wonderful creation.

Kind reminds me of Tesla and it's CEO - starry eyed you can be but he revealed himself to be a racist homophobe.

LAC-Tech• 4 years ago

I am so happy for them. I remember reading about how they struggled living with their parents in their 30s. I could imagine how much self doubt they must have had executing the long term plan of doing a user friendly steam release... will it actually work? And it has! Bravo.

Aleksdev• 4 years ago

"We found a foolproof way of saving our money, which was to not sell anything for 20 years and then drop it all," Zach deadpanned.

Lol

agentwiggles• 4 years ago

As of right now, and barring any future misfortune, this is a great feel-good story for any engineer. These guys brought their passion to life and created something unique and special that has been meaningful to thousands upon thousands of people over the last 20 years. It feels great to see them succeed in this way, and I hope they can continue to work on this for as long as they enjoy it. Congrats to Zach and Tarn, wishing them all the continued success.

jdhn• 4 years ago

Congrats to them! Very rare to see people who follow their dreams no matter what their field become millionaires.

On a side note, I feel like I should like Dwarf Fortress, but every time I look at it, it seems completely daunting.

vermilingua• 4 years ago

It might sound condescending, but the daunting is part of the !fun!

I strongly recommend just digging in, and it's never been easier than right now. The DF Wiki is one of the most comprehensive video-game wikis that exist due to a very passionate, very tight-knit community; and has excellent guides on how to play your first game.

I'd recommend playing one fort while strictly following a guide so that you can learn the interface and concepts, then try another fort totally on your own to experience the chaos in full.

flanbiscuit• 4 years ago

The new release adds graphics (instead of the ascii art styled graphics) so maybe that might be less daunting.

I say this only from observation, having never played the game. I saw a headline recently about the graphics update and you can see it in the videos on the Steam page:

https://store.steampowered.com/app/975370/Dwarf_Fortress/

Y_Y3• 4 years ago

Strike the earth!

_carbyau_• 4 years ago

Yeah. I like the idea of this game. But I'd love the idea if I could romp around in it with a friend or 15. But multiplayer is hard baked in from the start. This game will never happen.

So someone else will copy what they've done and add multiplayer and get that bag.

OkayPhysicist2• 4 years ago

Dwarf Fortress is basically uncopyable. Lots of games have tried: RimWorld is a good example. But they end up feeling like shallow imitations, because Dwarf Fortress has been continuously upgraded for 16 years. It's the game that every first year game dev dreams of making, with incredibly deep simulation and a myriad of mechanics to play with, before they realize that it would take decades to build.

The Toady One is just the madman who actually did it.

intrepidhero2• 4 years ago

The graphics package removed my big complaint: that trying to figure out what each particular character stood for in which context was not fun.

The complexity is daunting, but also a big part of the fun. Since I started playing the new version I find myself constantly sniped by trying to re-design the UI in my mind.

smegsicle• 4 years ago

there are a lot of ('fun' in community parlance) rough edges, but just getting food and drink down isn't too difficult and unlocks about as much of the rest of the game as you want

that is, figuring out or looking up-

- how to get a small farm plot going ('plump helmet' is the staple food)

- how to brew drinks at a still (set it to repeat- brew-able plants will be used indiscriminately, generally plumphelmets, and seeds will be left behind for planting)

from there, you'll start to see messages about (cancelling the brew job due to) needing more barrels/rock pots, which aren't difficult, neither are beds and mugs, which you'll see dwarfs complaining about

oh and you'll obviously want to set up stockpiles, which will keep your workshops from getting all cluttered...

anyway, the new game-start options make it easy to turn off attackers, which should ease fortress-management enough to figure out any other features you want to work on:

-centralized job management with a 'manager' and an office, which will also let you schedule jobs to occur as needs arise

-getting charcoal and ores for forging is of course a big one

hopefully the new interface makes it even easier to see what is going wrong, things that you can get a head-start on the next time you start a fortress

commandersaki• 4 years ago

Site unreadable due to ads.

DennisP• 4 years ago

You care about that enough to complain, but you don't have an adblocker? I don't see any ads.

wardedVibe3• 4 years ago

https://github.com/StevenBlack/hosts

chaostheory21• 4 years ago

Congrats to the Adams brothers.

To my knowledge, Dwarf Fortress is the closest thing to Hari Seldon’s Prime Radiant

jjwiseman• 4 years ago

Please don't pull a notch, please don't pull a notch...

Ericson23142• 4 years ago

Notch took orders of magnitude less time for orders of magnitude more money. I think they're safe.

Put on your https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moishe_Postone hat and the time portion is especially key here.

felipemnoa3• 4 years ago

I do not get your Moishe Postone reference either. What does it mean?

felipemnoa3• 4 years ago

What do you mean? I don't get the reference.

colechristensen2• 4 years ago

Notch is the dude who built Minecraft and then sold it to Microsoft for a billion dollars.

moritonal• 4 years ago

Because no one explained. Notch made Minecraft and at one point was making £300k a minute in sales. After a few years of very intense life changing profits he eventually sold Minecraft for £4B and turned into a bit of a weirdo largely blamed on his sudden rise in wealth.

If you read his blog you'd understand there was a lot of subtlety and complex relationships and emotions, but the gist is that.

DonHopkins3• 4 years ago

I was just thinking that myself, and wrote about it 5 days ago! But I have a lot more faith in the Adams brothers than my misplaced faith in Notch, who was inspired by Dwarf Fortress to make Minecraft.

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=33907092

DonHopkins 5 days ago | parent | context | favorite | on: I liberate the ending to Minecraft from Microsoft ...

Years ago when Minecraft was new, I used to really respect and admire and root for Markus Persson because of his work, but then he opened his mouth, showed the world who he really was, lost all my respect, and totally disgusted me. It would have been so easy for him to just keep his big mouth shut, count and spend all his money, and retain all the hard earned respect and admiration that so many people including myself had for him, but then we would have been delusionally admiring a truly terrible Q-Anon supporting, GamerGate promoting, misogynistic, homophobic, transphobic, racist bigot, who called video game developer and feminism supporter Zoë Quinn a "cunt".

"When someone shows you who they are, believe them the first time." – Maya Angelou

Oh course he tried to walk back some of his worst tweets, but what kind of person tweets that kind of shit in the first place? I believe what he showed about himself the first time, not his pathetic attempt at damage control.

So I guess it's better that we all now know what kind of a horrible person Notch really is thanks to his own words, so we're not wasting our money, energy, and respect on somebody who certainly doesn't deserve it. Let him serve as an anti-hero for exposing other bigots who choose to carry his water and show everyone who they really are by defending him.

I'd much rather spend my money and admiration on wholesome deservingly beloved game developers like Tarn and Zach Adams, who've worked so hard and creatively on Dwarf Fortress, and are decent human beings who totally deserve to reap the benefits of their fine dedicated work.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tarn_Adams

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Markus_Persson#Controversial_v...

Markus Persson: Controversial views

Persson has received criticism for political and social opinions he has expressed on social media since around 2017. Many of his comments have seen by others as misogynistic, racist, and homophobic.[52] He claimed feminism was a "social disease", and called video game developer and feminism supporter Zoë Quinn a "cunt".[53][54] He took offence to gay pride celebrations, asserting there should be heterosexual pride days and stating that opponents to his ideas "deserve to be shot".[54][55] After facing backlash, he deleted the tweets and rescinded his statements, writing "So yeah, it's about pride of daring to express, not about pride of being who you are. I get it now."[56] Persson said in social media that "It's okay to be white"[57] and that he believed privilege is a "made up metric".[58] He has promoted claims that people are fined for "using the wrong pronoun".[52] Persson has also faced criticism for tweeting in support of QAnon, stating that "Q is legit. Don't trust the media."[59]

In March 2019, a Minecraft update removed all mentions of Persson from the game's menu, though his name is still in the credits.[60] Microsoft did not explain this action, but its timing led multiple news outlets to conclude it was related to the controversies associated with him.[60][61] Persson was not invited to the game's tenth anniversary event later in 2019, with Microsoft saying that his views "do not reflect those of Microsoft or Mojang".[52][62]

[52] "Minecraft creator Notch unwelcome at 10th anniversary due to online conduct". Ars Technica. 29 April 2019. Retrieved 6 November 2022.

https://arstechnica.com/gaming/2019/04/online-conduct-leaves...

[53] Bonazzo, John (13 June 2017). "Minecraft Creator Tells Women on Twitter 'Act Like a Cunt, Get Called a Cunt'". Observer. Archived from the original on 19 August 2019. Retrieved 18 June 2019.

https://observer.com/2017/06/minecraft-gamergate-markus-pers...

[54] Kane, Vivian (29 April 2019). "Minecraft's Creator Excluded From the Game's 10th Anniversary Due to Racist, Sexist, Transphobic Comments". The Mary Sue. Archived from the original on 16 May 2019. Retrieved 18 June 2019.

https://web.archive.org/web/20190516071226/https://www.thema...

[55] "Minecraft creator Notch unwelcome at 10th anniversary due to online conduct". Ars Technica. 29 April 2019. Retrieved 9 April 2022.

https://arstechnica.com/gaming/2019/04/online-conduct-leaves...

[56] Morris, David Z. (2 July 2017). "Minecraft Creator Sparks Cries of Homophobia". Fortune. Time Inc. Archived from the original on 3 December 2017. Retrieved 3 December 2017.

http://fortune.com/2017/07/02/minecraft-markus-persson-homop...

[57] Crecente, Brian (29 April 2019). "'Minecraft' Creator Excluded From Anniversary Due to 'Comments and Opinions' (Exclusive)". Variety. Archived from the original on 17 June 2020. Retrieved 25 July 2019.

https://variety.com/2019/gaming/news/minecraft-creator-exclu...

[58] "The Creator of 'Minecraft' Tweeted Some Dumb Stuff About Race". GQ. Archived from the original on 25 July 2019. Retrieved 25 July 2019.

https://www.gq.com/story/notch-whiteness-tweets

[59] "From Q-Anon to transphobia, the creator of 'Minecraft' has takes". Newsweek. 11 March 2019. Retrieved 17 June 2022.

https://www.newsweek.com/minecraft-notch-controversy-twitter...

[60] Thubron, Rob (28 March 2019). "Microsoft removes references to game creator Notch in latest Minecraft update". TechSpot. Archived from the original on 4 February 2020. Retrieved 31 March 2020.

https://www.techspot.com/news/79403-microsoft-removes-refere...

[61] Lanier, Liz (28 March 2019). "Some References to 'Minecraft' Creator Notch Removed From Game". Variety. Archived from the original on 7 June 2020. Retrieved 31 March 2020.

https://variety.com/2019/gaming/news/notch-removed-minecraft...

[62] Arif, Shabana (29 April 2019). "Minecraft creator Notch won't be included in the game's 10 year anniversary event". VG247. Archived from the original on 29 April 2019. Retrieved 29 April 2019.

https://www.vg247.com/2019/04/29/minecraft-creator-notch-abs...

anakanemison• 4 years ago

Ten years ago (exactly, remarkably) Notch wrote about his father on his old blog.

I think it's a beautiful, sad, human piece of writing. It's hard to find online, now that his blog ("The Word of Notch") went away. Someone made a 500+ page PDF backup of his blog, here:

https://habrador.itch.io/the-word-of-notch

The post, titled "I love you, dad", is the second to last post.

Making beautiful things doesn't make up for saying horrible things. Still, every time I used to hear about the awful stuff Notch posted, I remembered how I felt about him when I read about him and his dad.

I just wish things didn't have to be so awful, for everyone.

flippinburgers2• 4 years ago

Unnecessary tangent.

ergonaught• 4 years ago

I'm super happy for them. When they've got this version available off of Windows, I'll contribute some more to their, uh, new reality.

whalesalad• 4 years ago

Hopefully they don't go the way of Notch and spiral out of control

haunter• 4 years ago

I love that they straight up said the game won't get any big discounts in the near (~2 years) future

Q: When is the game going on sale?
Not soon! And not for very much discount! Bay 12 and Kitfox are going to keep working on this for ~30 years, so it doesn’t make sense to follow normal Steam discounting. For example, we might discount 10% in a couple of months, but we also might not! We certainly won’t be discounting for more than 15% for at least two years!

https://store.steampowered.com/news/app/975370/view/36316205...

armchairhacker• 4 years ago

Same as Factorio, which also never goes on sale.

When I know a game discounts 50+% it just makes me put off buying it.

baobabKoodaa• 4 years ago

Some games are great even if they are "done" and no longer under active development. Frostpunk is a good example. When you see it on a large discount, pick it up.

falcolas3• 4 years ago

Factorio did see a sale! I believe it was just on the Switch version though.

chaostheory21• 4 years ago

You can get a discount on humble bundle if you’re a subscriber

cletus• 4 years ago

I'm so happy for these guys. Selling 300,000 copies @ $30 each is life-changing money. Over the years they've accepted donations but from what I've seen it's tended to a few thousand dollars a month. Decent but not a lot for 2 people.

I still find DF really inaccessible but this Steam release will prompt me to give it another go. Whatever the case, I'm happy for their success.

colechristensen2• 4 years ago

Classic DF is inaccessible during the first hour only if you follow a good tutorial. Most anybody willing to slog through that hour will be able to get it.

Lots of AAA games these days won’t even have you playing that quick (though for different reasons)

justadolphin2• 4 years ago

Back in the day the 10hr+ youtube tutorial series was considered prime viewing before even playing dorf fort, for someone without any traditional rogue experience. Even watching a condensed video and starting, I don't imagine the game would feel accessible for many hours for the average AAA enjoyer. My 6yr old however, is able to pick up and finish most any appropriately age rated AAA game. 5 minutes of experimenting with the controls and they are as good to go.

dvzk• 4 years ago

As an observer since the initial release, Tarn repeatedly refused requests to compromise by expanding the team or involving a publisher. It was a genuine passion project the sort of which rarely succeed financially. I couldn't be happier for them!

dan-g• 4 years ago

Congrats! I bought it with no intention falling down the rabbit hole again; rather, I owe them for all the time I spent playing in high school. So happy for them both!

satvikpendem• 4 years ago

I'm happy for their success. However, I'm dismayed that it was their inability to pay for healthcare that landed them in this (albeit good) situation. It's not a situation that should be forced on citizens in a modern country, for which this particular example is a feel-good ending, but there are many more (orders of magnitude more) feel-bad endings, so to speak.

Y_Y3• 4 years ago

Our fortunes rise and fall together

serverholic4• 4 years ago

Healthcare and basic income are crucial for moving towards the next stage of civilizaiton. Like you said, I'm really glad it worked out for them but so, so many people don't get so lucky or are willing to take such a big risk.

How many more dwarf fortresses could we have if we gave people the safety net to follow their dreams? Instead of worrying about basic necessities like food, shelter, and healthcare.

spacephysics• 4 years ago

I agree there is a problem with high healthcare costs, and food costs especially now.

However what we saw with covid stimulus and unemployment wasn’t the “everyone’s now an artist” outcome that is suggested with UBI.

We definitely saw creatives able to express and build their visions into the world, thanks to the money and additional time.

But we also saw, and still have ongoing, many people who choose not to work [0]. Some percent of these people are suffering from substance abuse. Not to say this is purely the outcome of UBI, but I can’t imagine it helps those individuals with such proclivities for abuse.

Personally I think we should have a good UBI at the least, qualified for individuals who make under a certain amount and who are able and working, or legitimately looking for a job.

There’s a reason many trust fund kids go broke or dive into substance abuse. Sure there are examples of families who would not do this under similar circumstances, but giving out money for no work (assuming one is able to work), leads to hedonic pleasures unless the individual is purposely aware and trying to avoid such sand traps.

[0] https://www.bls.gov/web/empsit/cpseea38.htm

Gigachad2• 4 years ago

More people building dwarf fortresses means less people doing whatever they are right now.

While some jobs may be completely pointless, I think we would quickly find that we actually need people doing boring jobs because society would fall apart without them and then no one gets to build video games.

vkoskiv• 4 years ago

How many more dwarf fortresses could we have if we gave people the safety net to follow their dreams?

So, so many. Linux is a good example. Linus has talked about how he was able to spend a lot of time on getting Linux off the ground because back in the 80s and 90s, study allowances in Finland were very, very generous. Took him like 8 years to graduate, and during that time he didn't have to worry at all about finding a job to pay rent and buy food. These days, the system is similar, but they do monitor your progress more closely and will cut off the allowance if you don't progress in your studies. (ask me how I know :P)

bombcar6• 4 years ago

I believe they now have enough cash to emigrate to Canada if they wished to do so.

chaostheory21• 4 years ago

Canada, like the US, has its own health care crisis. Wait times for medical care seem surreal.

https://www.theglobeandmail.com/amp/canada/british-columbia/...

https://ottawacitizen.com/news/local-news/ottawa-paramedics-...

nonethewiser5• 4 years ago

They decided to live off 30k a year with no health insurance. What did they think would happen?

komali26• 4 years ago

Would you rather live in a world where we don't have things like Dwarf Fortress? Their passion has been the game, as they understood it, they weren't able to make it and have health insurance (as I recall from the documentary, there were some issues getting remote jobs, and health insurance out of pocket is apparently prohibitively expensive in the USA).

Why are you blaming them and not the system?

wardedVibe3• 4 years ago

fuck the poors, right?

lmm4• 4 years ago

Would it have been any different if they did have health insurance? Under the US system I read plenty of stories of people who did everything right - had top insurance and lots of savings - but were still rendered destitute.

matt3210• 4 years ago

Need to run macOS

dabeeeenster2• 4 years ago

So this happened to a guy that worked for me. Loved video games, super talented front end dev. Made a horror game in Unity at evenings and weekends with his best friend. Launched it on Steam. Very low sales. But he learnt a huge amount about marketing and game design based on player feedback.

Designed a second game, put all the marketing learnings into it, 48 hours after launch the biggest streamer on twitch was streaming it.

4 days later he quit working for me. Couldnt be happier for him.

The biggest thing I saw was that 2 guys, Unity, unity asset store and some upwork artists made a really pretty decent game. I love how this has come full circle. I'm 47 and back in the 8 bit days games were made by 1 or 2 people. 15 years ago this just wasnt possible, but now with unity, unity assets, remote for hire work, steam and twitch for marketing you can legit make it as a 2 person studio. I love it.

The distribution of Steam and viral marketing of Twitch have revolutionised indie development for the better. In addition to this, as an asset he now has a Discord server with 10ksss+ subscribers. I doubt he will ever pay for a $ of traditional above or below the line marketing.

darkteflon3• 4 years ago

That’s awesome. Would you mind sharing which game it was?

dabeeeenster2• 4 years ago

I'm not sure if he would be upset with me if I were to publish how small his team was, sorry! Maybe the reasons above will change this.

fire• 4 years ago

If you are still in contact with the guy, could you ask him what the marketing learning actually were? Everyone has their own take on marketing and it's honestly really difficult to get the concept with most posts about it being so fluffy.

I'd honestly love some cliff notes or a bulleted list from someone who has actually succeeded, especially if they ( like me ) had no marketing experience beforehand.

throwntoday• 4 years ago

Getting a big twitch streamer to play his game was the only marketing he needed. Although their time is up for sale I think some amount of them do genuinely enjoy gaming and will try out something that is interesting to them.

mosseater2• 4 years ago

I've read on the /r/gamedev subreddit of people succeeding with even just doing cold-call emails to popular twitch streamers. Someone recently posted a breakdown of how many streamers played their game after he sent out emails, and he seemed to get around 5% turnaround.

There's a guide that was posted to this subreddit a while ago too, that gives what you are looking for I think. https://www.reddit.com/r/gamedev/comments/m74fcj/guide_to_ma...

aschearer6• 4 years ago

Not trying to be glib but the single most important thing is to make the right game.

1. Before you start the project, do some research and ask yourself what is unique about your game? Why would someone play it instead of the leading competitor? Don't settle for an idea that doesn't have plausible answers.

2. Build the game really well. REALLY WELL. Amazing artwork, great style, a visual feast. Fun, snappy gameplay. Depth. I'm talking hours of engrossing gameplay. Solid, performant, virtually bug free.

3. Along the way build moments into the game that really stand out, that would look hot in a gif, that would pique someone's interest if they heard about it.

--- most people get it wrong before this point ---

4. OK now you're ready to start marketing to people. It's easy, just tell them about your game. How? Break the game along different dimensions. The story. The game systems. The emotions players will experience. etc. For each of these, break them into smaller blurbs. You now have dozens of things to share, start recording gifs/video/screenshots to support what you've written. Now start posting to social media. If someone finds your Twitter profile and scrolls through, they should come away understanding what your game is and why they want it.

5. Next go to Twitter, Reddit, YouTube, websites, etc. and find the top accounts that cover / discuss games like yours. Follow them. Interact with their posts/communities. Especially keep an eye out for opportunities to share your work with them.

6. Advanced: come up with some marketing moments. E.g. announcing your game with a launch trailer, revealing the release date, releasing a demo, your launch day, etc. Put these all on a calendar. For each date, work backwards ~2 months. Coordinate social media posting, email with press/influencers using those dates.

I apologize if this sounds flippant, but it's really so so so hard to get steps 1-3 right. People delude themselves into thinking they're on the right track simply because making games is incredibly, super hard. It's outrageous how much work it takes to make something at all. But no one cares about that. Another reason I think people fail, myself included, is we tend to make very safe, hackneyed games. How many of us are guilty of making a game set in a vaguely DND/Tolkien world? That's tired. I know someone still manages to beat the odds every year, that's survivorship bias in action. Play with a stacked deck, make something truly original.

j-bos• 4 years ago

Great on you for supporting his endeavors!

brundolf2• 4 years ago

The flipside is that it's a lottery. Steam is overflowing with new indie games every day, and many very good ones die in obscurity. You really have to get lucky and go viral

But yeah, the entry fee for that lottery is at a historic low, which is still great (especially for hobby devs who don't care about the rest!)

adamnemecek• 4 years ago

Is it though? Show me a good Steam game that isn't selling well.

htag• 4 years ago

Is it a straight lottery (random chance), or does marketing play a role along with the game itself?

ambrose2• 4 years ago

Eh, I have a friend who is incredibly talented and when their indie game became iPhone game of the year it couldn’t have been anyone else I knew, the guy was just that stellar. Definitely a combination of ability and persistence and a little luck.

bowsamic• 4 years ago

I don't think it's lottery. I think that we don't want to admit that most people are just bad at designing and developing games. I hang about on /r/gamedev and I've seen a lot of posts complaining about low sales and not a single one of those games was compelling

spaceman_20204• 4 years ago

Lottery implies its entirely luck based.

When in reality, you have a great deal of control. Marketing IS something you can control.

Sure, some streamer randomly picking up your game is beyond your control. But you can certainly create conditions that would make it easier for your game to be picked up by a streamer (build relationships with journos, streamers; get paid marketing, etc.)

Calling it a lottery is a disservice to the people who actually put in effort to create these games.

markus_zhang• 4 years ago

I think it's more than lottery. Skills, contents and marketing are all important aspects of game production. I wonder what is the chance of getting 1,000 sales for the Nth released non-free game. It won't feed the mouth but is a good start (to convince wife). Steam probably has the data.

mcherm• 4 years ago

The flipside is that it's a lottery. Steam is overflowing with new indie games every day, and many very good ones die in obscurity.

Sounds to me like an opportunity. There may be a demand for a service that reviews indie games and "discovers" (promotes) little-known-but-great ones. It even has an obvious revenue source: allowing advertising by games (so long as advertisements and promoted works are VERY CLEARLY separated).

glonq• 4 years ago

Every time I see a new-ish game released for free on the epic games store or indiegala, I think "bummer, I guess it's still mac and cheese in mom's basement for these guys.

todfox4• 4 years ago

After four years working on my retro game nearly full time, and several launches, I still don't understand marketing enough to understand what to do differently.

A lot of the advice out there is something like: "create a community" or "go join several communities" or "get to know other indie devs on Twitter". To me, this simply feels fake. I don't really participate in any online communities. I spend enough time in front of a computer for work and I prefer to socialize with my real life friends.

Besides, I simply have no idea how to get any kind of attention on social media. I created an eight-page booklet that recreates the first issue of Nintendo Power, except with my characters in place of Mario and Wart. It's an homage, because I developed a retro game. Somebody suggested that I post it on a retrogaming subreddit, where many others were posting fan art, and those people should recognize the magazine cover that I recreated. Well, I posted my PDF and it got about 4 upvotes. A simple photo, posted around the same time, of the very common TMNT NES cartridge got -- 800? 900? I stopped looking.

I understand that what I made is not going to be for everybody. I'm not expecting to be a millionaire. But damn if I can't figure out how to even get it in front of people. Everywhere I try just gets ignored.

The game is pretty substantial too. Mac, iOS, and Windows versions all done by me -- custom game engine -- 40+ hours of gameplay -- about a 5-6 hour minimum play time if you start from scratch and you know what you're doing (I was shooting for 3.5ish hours to equal Mario 3 or Mario World in "size" or "depth"). Lots of fun secrets. Nothing repeated. Challenging, but not as hard as Dwarf Fortress. Real life playtesters (not friends or family) asked me to reset the game so they could start all over again.

I just wish somebody else could do the social stuff. It all just makes me want to stop programming altogether. My brain just does not work along the lines of "how can I phrase this email to get this person's attention?" So I realize cold calling is a numbers game but I seem to be ignored no matter what I do.

I want to make great stuff, and I really don't care about attention/fame/money -- but what's the point of working so hard if nobody gets to enjoy it but me?

shaftoe• 4 years ago

Sounds interesting.

What's the game?

fuzzzerd• 4 years ago

I don't have the answer, but have been seeking it for a long time myself. Heard the same advise you got, make a community, join communities, post on twitter/reddit. As you said it just feels like fake advise.

As best I can tell, success in those efdorts is equal parts luck, wit, and having something unique yet relatable.

fooqux• 4 years ago

but what's the point of working so hard if nobody gets to enjoy it but me?

I have been struggling with this myself. Not just about programming but other creative pursuits as well. Recently it has been photography. I take pictures while knowing whatever I'm looking at has a far better picture on its wikipedia page.

I suppose we're supposed to take some sort of fulfillment in the process of creation itself? But that just goes back to the old koan of the tree falling in the woods. If I create something, but nobody ever sees it, did I create it at all? Doesn't feel like it.

aschearer6• 4 years ago

Assuming the game is "Hazmat Hijinks: Total Meltdown" on Steam. Here's some tough love:

The video takes way too long to get to gameplay. Screenshots do a poor job explaining what the mechanic is. I've read the capsule image, watched some of the trailer, looked at several of the screenshots and still can't tell you what the gameplay loop is. Sort of a top down puzzle thing? With a "match the color" mechanic? The art is not good enough by a mile. OK I just read some of the "About This Game" -- no one cares how many hours of gameplay, if it's so novel why can't you explain that better than "always something new", which is redundant. Surprises also feels like it's just more novelty. The first point about various suits is not exciting, why should I care? Having a handful of people really love it isn't sufficient. I had a game on Dictionary.com that people played hours daily, still couldn't make money from it.

Stepping back, I think there are ways you could vastly improve your marketing, but is it worth it? Take the "L" and move on to your next project. Use what you've learned to improve and "make great stuff." It's better to move quickly, learn, and make better and better stuff until you've hit on something that works. At least I wish someone had given me similar advice back in the day.

PS All this is coming from respect and recognition of the incredible amount of hard work and sweat you've committed to the game. You're a bad ass for working so hard and completing a game!

schemescape2• 4 years ago

I don’t have any advice, but I will say the art in the screenshots didn’t grab my attention.

For what it’s worth, I had a similar experience. I launched a game on itch.io for fun, and got a ton of positive feedback (including “I love this game!” And “I can’t believe this is free!”), but when I launched on Steam (also for free, but now with music people said they liked and new features), it bombed.

The cherry on top was when I posted a Show HN here (it’s a zachlike programming game, using an esolang—-right up HN’s alley), and didn’t get a single upvote. I’ll admit: that hurt.

kirse• 4 years ago

what's the point of working so hard if nobody gets to enjoy it but me?

Life starts posing those existential questions at the extremes of sacrifice, especially when you're working for something your brain subconsciously knows could potentially turn out to be vaporware.

If you're going to play the game of wanting users, then 1) immediate and regular program-shaping user feedback is king and 2) many overnight successes take longer than expected [1]. At 4 years in you're really just getting started with learning. Obviously you're in the phase now where you recognize you need help and can't do it all yourself, so how badly do you want your Everest? It always takes teams to reach any great summit.

[1] https://dondodge.typepad.com/the_next_big_thing/2008/05/guit...

antiatheist2• 4 years ago

Why don't you recruit those playtesters as beta users to promote your game?

kiawe_fire• 4 years ago

First I’ve heard of your game is via this comment, and as a fan of old Windows 95 / DOS games, this looks great! I’m eager to buy it once I’m able to load up some Steam credits.

I’ve been down your road before, and it sucks, but ultimately it’s why you need to make sure you enjoy doing what you’re doing above all else, with the hopes that others will enjoy it.

Sometimes you just gotta make something because you want it to exist in the world, and because YOU want to be the one to bring it into existence.

Personally, I love that you’re keeping a concept like this alive.

That said, because it’s the internet, I can’t help but add my $0.02 on your marketing efforts.

So, from your brief description of your attempt at Reddit marketing, I can’t help but notice that your game is very much going for the Chip’s Challenge / MS DOS / Windows 95 vibe.

Yet your marketing efforts and description of game length is trying to make a Nintendo Power / Super Mario connection. On a subreddit in which people were upvoting NES cartridges.

I’d say that’s the wrong audience. While there’s plenty of overlap between early PC gamers and early Nintendo gamers, most people tend to focus their nostalgia on one over the other.

You’ve found a cool niche, but I would expect far more resonance with the vintage PC / DOS gaming crowd, and maybe even the Amiga / Atari PC crowd.

But like I said, I’m not any better at this than you, and I also acknowledge that your Reddit story may be just one of many attempts you’ve made at marketing.

I hope you keep at it, and find enjoyment in the process, but don’t be afraid to take breaks, or try something wildly different. Best of luck!

codexon• 4 years ago

Marketing is a zero sum game to get people's attention. Attention is finite resource and you are competing with others for it.

It isn't a trivial task that anyone can do, at least efficiently (paying the minimum amount for the maximum number of conversions). It is just like programming where some people never seem to get it, except you are also competing against others.

If marketing is not something you are talented at or something you want to spend time and effort on, try paying for it. Even the biggest studios are buying ads and paying influencers.

squokko• 4 years ago

I don't think you can make yourself want to be good at game marketing - you need to partner with someone who lives and breathes that life and recognize, by ownership/compensation, that they are just as important as you to the business, and work on it together from the start (that person will have a better pulse on the audience and what they want to see and how to get it to them).

hoseja• 4 years ago

Get Splattercatgaming or somebody in that space to play it somehow.

eps• 4 years ago

You have a Catch 22.

Your game looks super basic and through that unappealing. You would've gotten a feedback IF you would've not mentioned the 4 years sunk into the game. Virtually all that feedback would've been negative or critical, but people are just not assholes enough to tear into a massive amount of effort when it seemingly yielded so little. Hence the silence when you try and engage.

astrange2• 4 years ago

Isn't the usual advice to never make a game and a game engine at the same time, because you'll only finish one of them?

spaceman_20204• 4 years ago

Here's the harsh truth: unless you're well connected, the only way to get visibility on social media is to pay someone.

This can mean:

- Paying the platform (the easiest and most scalable, but also the most expensive and arguably least effective)

- Paying an influencer for an explicitly labeled sponsored content (effective, but depends a lot on your target demographic)

- Paying a popular account to share your content "organically", without any explicit sponsored labeling (the most effective, but also the hardest to scale)

You'll find that once you get a decent amount of following, it's easy to snowball into a much larger following - provided you have content worth sharing.

will5421• 4 years ago

Have you thought about making a demo? That would give you something you might feel good about sharing on social media, and would be passed around on if the game is good. And it’s something you could make with your existing skill set (no crafting of emails necessary).

conradfr• 4 years ago

Not entirely true as 15 years ago two people made World of Goo which was a big success.

koonsolo• 4 years ago

Love your comment, but I want to add something to this:

15 years ago this just wasnt possible

Actually around 2003 to 2006 I was doing that. Back then we were releasing games on PocketPC, which sold around $20. It was basically 1 programmer and 1 artist, or some could do that all by themselves.

But then came a period where mobile became really popular, and a lot of money started flowing into that game platform.

But I do agree that now you have both the platforms and tools for small game developers to pull off some very nice games.

Dave3of5• 4 years ago

The biggest thing I saw was that 2 guys, Unity, unity asset store and some upwork artists made a really pretty decent game. I love how this has come full circle. I'm 47 and back in the 8 bit days games were made by 1 or 2 people. 15 years ago this just wasnt possible, but now with unity, unity assets, remote for hire work, steam and twitch for marketing you can legit make it as a 2 person studio. I love it.

While it's certainly possible it's very much the exception rather than the rule here. Let's take the parts of a game and individually look at why:

* Gameplay - This is where small indies really shine it possible to create a game with some cool gameplay. The problem here is that to create something that people actually find fun is rather hard. Most Indie games are boring as shit, they often have a single gimicky gameplay feature. You can try this yourself to come up with something that's truly fun. Sit down for 30 minutes and build a game that's unique and fun, you'll fine it's really hard. That's why the AAA game studios don't really do that. They use other techniques to sell the game like using and big well known IP. Most AAA gameplay is not unique and often is really not that fun for this exact reason. Note also here most indie devs who have never actually made a hit with tell you to just work on making the gameplay in your game really great. It's a cop out.

* Art - This is one of the hardest parts. You can kitbash a bunch of asset store stuff but then your game looks like a hodgepodge mess. You can hire an artist but if you want something really good looking you won't find them on upwork selling their labour at sweatshop rates. Really good artists are specialists in specific areas like character design, concept art, environment art ...etc. Trying to just find someone on upwork who will do all of that really well for you is basically impossible. Also note if you use stuff off the asset store you will need your artist to match that style which is actually really hard. To get really good art for a game you have to hire a team and build from the ground up. That's very difficult for indie teams most of which have no money to spend on art.

* Sound - Great games have great soundtracks. Often composed by someone with a lot of experience. These people are hard to find and even harder to convince to work on a game. Again like the art it's not something people are selling for cheap on upwork. Note also that you will want stuff in the game like jumping sounds, landing, clicking all that stuff. You can again find packs with this on the asset store but they often just won't have that sound you are looking for and mixing sound packs make the game seem cheap. The sound design has to be all one piece of work really. Think mixing 8-bit era sounds with more modern stuff it doesn't work.

* Testing - Often not looked upon but testing your own work doesn't work. You need someone independent to look at what you've done and break it. If you've ever played Bethesda Games you'll see what poor testing looks like. Note that the larger the scope of your game the amount of testing becomes exponential. The big AAA game studio have more testers than devs by far. If you look at many of the small indie game this really can kill the game. The devs chuck something together which looks ok and is fairly unique but is so poorly tested that no one is willing to buy.

All in all it's possible to do but really hard and I would say they got really lucky.

The distribution of Steam and viral marketing of Twitch have revolutionised indie development

Yes but not in the way you think. Before anyone was able to put stuff on these shops getting on Steam was a one way ticket to $$$$. There where curated stores and even being in them meant you got a seal of approval from the likes of valve. Now-a-days the steam store is filled with so much asset flip junk "indie games" it's become a meme. To be seen on any of these platforms is now a real miracle. Again on twitch getting picked up by a big streamer is like winning the lottery. The vast majority of streamers on twitch make no money and have such a tiny audience getting on their streams would only net you double digit sales if you are lucky.

darkteflon3• 4 years ago

I’ve often marvelled at these guys and their approach: making one game into your life’s work. Rimworld is perhaps another example of continuously added depth/complexity (although perhaps too soon to call that Tynan’s “life’s work”). Perhaps it’s something peculiar to this genre - so-called management sims.

It seems to me a phenomenon that - while perhaps not unique in art - is both rare and very well suited to this medium.

OkayPhysicist2• 4 years ago

I'd wager it's because of the step back the player takes from the actual world. Like, Dwarf Fortress adventure mode exists, but it gets tedious. Carefully deciding which molar of your opponent to grab while grappling isn't the most engaging gameplay. But when you take a step back, and are making general instructions to your dwarves like "Go fight these goblins", the added complexity makes for some very memorable moments.

Combine that with a gameplay loop that basically demands a sprawling amount of new things to do (since the dwarves basically handle themselves in the steady state), and you've got a recipe for some truly expansive games.

Plus every modern game in the genre is directly inspired by Dwarf Fortress, who is made by someone who really seems like he just wanted a way to get people interested in his high fantasy world simulator.

ImprobableTruth2• 4 years ago

Now that money worries are (hopefully) not an issue anymore, I really hope they consider releasing the source code.

Due to being written in C++, mods are quite restricted in what they can do (especially in comparison to more recent games like Rimworld that are trivial to decompile due to using C#). Especially frustrating because performance really isn't up to par - a lot of the old generational forts from a decade+ ago are really only possible now if you tailor your gameplay to account for performance issues.

nonethewiser5• 4 years ago

Yeah I have some doubts about its optimization. Would be great to get fresh eyes on it.

jskulski• 4 years ago

Had they talked about releasing the source code? I would love to see the machine behind DF. I think about it all the time.

Either is a complete mess that no one else can understand, or they nailed the abstractions and it is infinitely extendable. I’m really curious to see how they implemented a system that provides such depth and subtlety.

ImprobableTruth2• 4 years ago

Tarn has made an off hand comment about it before [1], but I'm not sure how serious it actually was.

[1] https://www.pcgamer.com/if-dwarf-fortress-sells-millions-on-...

newobj• 4 years ago

People are making a lot of assumptions about the finances of the publishing deal with Kitfox

User23• 4 years ago

I’ve played for about two hours over the last decade. So playing the game hasn’t given me all that much pleasure. But I got considerably more pleasure reading Let’s Plays, so I dropped the 30bux on general principle. Congratulations to them.

Lapsa• 4 years ago

people like complex games as opposed to tunnel runners. and no AAA studio can compete with what dwarf fortress got.

npteljes3• 4 years ago

People like both. If you think about it, books, music and film are linear too. There's nothing wrong with being entertained by a story, but I too find it fascinating to see how indie developers push gaming as a medium.

GaryPalmer• 4 years ago

Respect to the developers for their effort. But I would never get into dwarf fortress because to me the idea is kind of insane. I get that it is fascinating to try and model complex real-world behaviour into a video game. But the truth is you can spend 100 lifetimes worth of time perfecting these systems that try to appear like a physical world (but really aren't) by trying to preprare for every possible situation the player can get into. And in the end you don't even come close to preparing for 0.1% of the possibilites.

So on one end you are mercilessly sacrificing gameplay for complexity to the point where the game devolves into manual reading. And on the other hand the complexity is never going to be enough.

Maybe in the future AI Networks will be able to come up with convicing game-systems like in dwarf fortress on the fly to offer an illusion of complex emergent behaviour.

Swalden123• 4 years ago

Really happy for these guys. I've loved this game for 15 years.

s_dev• 4 years ago

Congrats to the guys but my selfish hope is this helps spur some life back in to the Real Time Strategy genre -- so good news even if you aren't in to DF per se.

tranxen• 4 years ago

They deserve all the money they will get from their game. I am really happy for them, they allowed us to play DF for free for so long that I would not be mad if the sell price on steam was higher. DF is an awesome game and I hope they continue to improve it and to add content.

Good job guys !

nameless912• 4 years ago

Partner: "What the hell are you playing?"

Me: "Dwarf fortress! It's that game I used to play when I was in college working at the IT helpdesk. They finally added graphics!"

Partner: "I wouldn't exactly call those graphics..."

Me: pulls up copy of DF Classic

Partner: "...I see your point. And this game is fun?"

Me: "Imagine The Sims, if your sims could fight and you can only instruct them to build rather than building it yourself. And then set it in Lord of the Rings."

Partner: "Oooookay. How long have you been playing today?"

Me: looks at clock looks at clock again "Would you be mad if I told you six hours?"

Partner: "...I'm going to leave you to it."

11/10, amazing game. So happy for Tarn and Zach, they deserve every last penny of this.

shever73• 4 years ago

100% well deserved. I'm disappointed that there's no Mac release yet, but I'm sure it will come. As soon as it does, I'll be switching from the Patreon brigade to paid-for on Steam.

I love Dwarf Fortress, and I'm delighted that this labour of love has paid off for them.

dnadler• 4 years ago

Lots of talk about the financials here, so I thought people might be interested in this financial simulator I've been working on.

Here's a very simple scenario that I set up to forecast Tarn and Zach's windfall:

https://thetortoise.io/shared-scenario/72ff9de5d4f64a408f83c...

I just set it up with an initial $4m balance and a 100k annual drawdown. It uses some fairly standard market assumptions and is all in real terms.

Feel free to experiment with it, and always happy to get feedback!

After 20 years the Dwarf Fortress devs have to get used to being millionaires

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