Amazon Isn’t the Only Shop Online

https://www.wsj.com/articles/shipping-delays-out-of-stock-items-amazon-isnt-the-only-shop-online-11586165400

by lxm • 6 years ago

405 484 6 years ago

wsj.com

Kaibeezy3• 6 years ago

paywall, whatever :(

yep, amazon has been useless lately - ebay, on the other hand, all those independent sellers, very responsive!

jshevek7• 6 years ago

http://archive.md/k3zNE

Kaibeezy3• 6 years ago

thank you

Diederich20• 6 years ago

http://archive.md/k3zNE

Kaibeezy3• 6 years ago

thank you

thebean11• 6 years ago

The estimates on Amazon right now seem way longer than the reality. I'm getting all my packages in 2-3 days despite Amazon estimating a week or more.

irrational2• 6 years ago

Not me. Amazon is estimating 2-3 weeks on most things now, and so far are sticking by their estimates.

eshyong• 6 years ago

I'm guessing a lot of this is location dependent, and based on warehouse-proximity.

mritun• 6 years ago

Same for me. 3 items earlier estimated for Apr 27 are already sitting in a box in my living room.

frank086• 6 years ago

Same. I put in a big order figuring if I have a three week turn around, better buy three weeks of stuff. Two days later I see the poor delivery guy unloading all my stuff.

Now I am an inadvertent horder.

gnulinux• 6 years ago

I live in Boston. I seem to be getting most things in around 5 days, even though Amazon estimates 2 weeks. Almost everything was delivered before their estimates. But everything is still slower than usual (normally, I'd get things delivered in 1 to 3 days)

ghaff2• 6 years ago

Probably depends on the item. I'm outside of Boston and I don't think any order has taken longer than 2 days--other than a couple I picked delayed shipping in exchange for a digital credit. (And even those arrived on the early side of their estimate.)

colmvp• 6 years ago

In Canada at least, some Prime shipping estimates are ONE MONTH.

At the end of the day, I'm not complaining because prioritizing medical supplies is prudent but I have to imagine that a lot of people are choosing to use alternative sources like Order-and-Pickup instead.

mod2• 6 years ago

I'm in the south: shipping for my item was 29 days.

jasonv• 6 years ago

Latest order estimated delivery in 10 days but everything came in 2-3. In CA.

xkjkls4• 6 years ago

Delivery estimates are very much an underpromise, overdeliver thing, so that makes sense.

jdlyga• 6 years ago

Well then give us a list! Nearly everything else I've checked is either out of stock or doesn't deliver to my house.

markkanof5• 6 years ago

Maybe not the type of items you are shopping for, but I just ordered a sink and faucet from build.com and got free 2-day delivery.

gambler• 6 years ago

Most chain stores and even some local stores have online storefront and still ship items. It's a good time to support them. You don't want to live in the world where Amazon is the only game left in town.

Also, Ebay.

jshevek7• 6 years ago

Edit: Article can be read here:

http://archive.md/k3zNE

It seems like WSJ.com should not be the link used without a follow-up link giving access to the whole community.

Are paywalls ok?

It's ok to post stories from sites with paywalls that have workarounds.

loser777• 6 years ago

I’ve observed this with big and small business alike:

+ bought a baking steel direct from the seller (shipping time ~5 days vs. 1 month+, so I canceled the amazon order)

+ monitor out of stock for over a week on amazon (in stock at bnh, shipping time ~4 days)

+ monitor arm I didn’t even bother looking at on amazon (shipping time direct from seller ~2 days)

CaliforniaKarl• 6 years ago

I never heard of "baking steel". Looking online, it seems to be like a pizza stone? If yes, that's cool!

Shebanator2• 6 years ago

it is a pizza stone, but metal. I have one and it is super heavy, which makes it inconvenient to use, but it does improve the crust quality of oven-baked pizzas.

chrisweekly2• 6 years ago

bnh?

deadbunny• 6 years ago

I assume it's B&H Photo https://www.bhphotovideo.com/

Arcsech• 6 years ago

https://www.bhphotovideo.com/ presumably. I've ordered some things from there, and generally had a good experience, with a few notes:

- For large purchases at least, they are very scrupulous about sending tax documents to your home state to make sure the sales tax gets paid. This is probably a social good overall, but unusual for internet retailers and may take some folks by surprise.

- They follow a Jewish holiday schedule, including the Sabbath, and do not take orders on the Sabbath (in New York's time zone, at least). Again, not a negative, but unusual for modern businesses, especially online ones.

daniel_reetz2• 6 years ago

I really felt this. Seeing things go out-of-stock or become unavailable for months was a strong reminder of how things used to be online - when I purchased different types of items from different independent web retailers. I went searching for many of them, most are gone.

Does anyone remember Pricewatch? Old school computer parts sellers like CompGeeks? Those were really interesting times.

bombledmonk• 6 years ago

I just bought something from Best Buy online when Amazon said the same item was in stock, but would not arrive until April 27th. BB said it be here Thursday, though is usually a day early because of proximity to the warehouse.

manigandham• 6 years ago

http://archive.is/k3zNE

bluGill3• 6 years ago

I always search for alternative sellers. They are more likely to have someone who knows the product. A plumbing supplier will know something about pipes and I have some reason to trust them when they give advantages to their different price levels. I don't need 200 different brands of 1/2 inch pipe connections, I need the 3 different levels of pressure they are rated for, and the choice of material they are made from. They also tend to provide reasonable sorting so that I can find what I need without scrolling for ages.

blensor• 6 years ago

I have started to fall back to a shopping site run by our postal service [1] which has been trying for several months through TV ads to get people to use the more regional shopping site rather than Amazon. I guess they could not have hoped for a better scenario than a countrywide lockdown paired with shipping delays at Amazon

[1] shoepping.at

complianceowl2• 6 years ago

The HN is a very intelligent community, so I'd like to hear your thoughts out loud here. Do you guys think supply chains will move closer to home because of this pandemic? I'm hearing every narrative under the sun right now: "This will establish globalism even more", "No! This marks the abrupt END of globalism." What are your thoughts?

jshevek7• 6 years ago

Certain products will be made and/or stock-piled closer to home. The effect this has on globalism overall depends on how various factions battle over narratives.

pjc50• 6 years ago

"Globalism"?

It's very hard to say right now. Money will be tight, so the pressure to buy the cheapest will remain. A lot of producers and consumer businesses will go bust. Shortage and oversupply will ping pong around for a while.

A lot depends what the effect of deaths is on politics - do any leaders get killed? Differential effect on older voters? Hopefully the number of those will be small enough not to matter.

stuff4ben• 6 years ago

It's certainly going to shift manufacturing of some "essential items" for emergencies closer to home. But you can't do a knee-jerk reaction based on something like this. This is a very rare event and it would be foolish to annihilate your existing global supply chain over this. It will probably mean that countries (the smart ones anyways) will start to stockpile and ensure they have plans to follow in the event something like this happens again.

twblalock2• 6 years ago

Supply chains need to be more resilient, and that probably means making them more global rather than less.

A pandemic could originate in any country. Making things "at home" would turn out to be a bad idea if the pandemic originates at home. If that happened we would like to be able to get help from other countries.

jshevek7• 6 years ago

De-globalization, in this case, brings redundancy. This is less efficient, but more fault tolerant.

Striving for domestic manufacturing does not prevent imports from occurring if deemed necessary. Tariffs are easy to wave, in an emergency.

Mountain_Skies• 6 years ago

Only with government intervention. If company A switches to more expensive domestic manufacturing while company B stays on the other side of the planet, B can undercut A. Next time there is a supply disruption, A will be able to beat out B, but A might be out of business by then. Government intervention would be required to even the field, maybe through tariffs or importation prohibitions.

An alternative would be for company A to appeal to the public (or business customers) to buy from them at a higher price because it helps keep society from being disrupted by supply chain interruptions. That might work short term but cheap prices seem to win out over concerns of societal wide benefits in the long run.

complianceowl2• 6 years ago

Guys, you freaking rock. Thank you for your informative and insightful responses. This is precisely why I referred to you guys before even receiving any responses as "intelligent".

nataz• 6 years ago

Amazon shipping hack - order what you want to order, wait 48 hours to see if it ships, and if it doesn't cancel and order elsewhere.

This assumes you value ordering through Amazon (I do b/c prime shipping, easy return policy, and I have a large gift card balance)

One thing I've noticed is that amazon may list a delivery date far out in the future, but it's possible you still get the product quickly, depending on what I can only assume are local warehouse logistic issues.

Over the past two weeks I've ordered packing/shipping supplies, a high chair, some electronics, and a board game which all had expected delivery dates of +1 month, and they all arrived in 2 days.

YMMV.

jshevek7• 6 years ago

I've done this. It doesn't work for some third party shippers who claim to ship immediately (cancel option removed) even if they don't.

secabeen• 6 years ago

I've also noticed that if you order multiple items, and one of them has a short shipping time, they'll suddenly ship your other items that are waiting. Presumably if they're all at the same warehouse, and they're already shipping one thing, they put the other stuff in the box.

dawnerd5• 6 years ago

Flip side is sometimes something that could ship fast ends up being delayed so they can group it with something that comes from a further away warehouse.

ehsankia• 6 years ago

I really wish they could provide more clarity. I haven't tried ordering things that list as May, but browsing items, I randomly see individual items that for some reason have much closer dates. I even saw one with 1-day shipping. It makes no sense to me. I wish they could give a slightly better window prediction than "this may take a month"...

larrik4• 6 years ago

I needed some surge protectors. The ones I really wanted were all May, but then the AmazonBasics one was this week. Hmm...

airstrike2• 6 years ago

I really wish they could provide more clarity.

I'm not sure but I think this is because of some virus or something, from what I've heard

dangrossman3• 6 years ago

The 10% of items that show as available for 1-day or 2-day shipping are likely the ones in your nearest Amazon warehouse. There's 119 other warehouses products can be in that they would have to ship by UPS/FedEx/USPS instead of a local delivery by their own contracted drivers.

greenshackle2• 6 years ago

They are shipping "priority items" quickly. Who knows how they determine what are "priority items".

When I ordered hygiene items (shampoo, soap, etc.) they shipped the next day. But my order of kitchen equipment has expected delivery in May (which I'm totally fine with).

serf• 6 years ago

Amazon shipping hack - order what you want to order, wait 48 hours to see if it ships, and if it doesn't cancel and order elsewhere.

Amazon used to have a history of banning 'bad customers' (lots of returns, cancelled orders, etc), is this no longer the case?

dawnerd5• 6 years ago

Anecdotal but I've cancelled a TON of orders and haven't been banned. Returns I can see, but definitely not cancelled orders.

mnm1• 6 years ago

It is still the case.

jedberg• 6 years ago

Yeah I’ve ordered a few things now directly from the manufacturer.

The problem is in a lot of cases I’ll see stuff that’s slightly cheaper on their site but then shipping is ridiculous.

I ordered a mono price stand up desk recently. The price on Amazon was $10 more, but Monoprice wanted $45 for domestic shipping! So I waited three extra days and saved $35.

It’s kind of a toss up now between speed and price depending on the item. I mean, it always was, but when prime is functioning normally, the speed is almost always worth the price (to me).

bluetidepro4• 6 years ago

I agree 100% with this. It's appalling how many other sites (esp. the direct manufacturer ones, like you mentioned) use dark patterns with their shipping/handling prices. It really does make you understand why everyone wants to use the big sites like Amazon, at least they are pretty straight fwd when it comes to the price, shipping, fees, etc. Nothing worse than getting down an e-commerce funnel only to find you wasted 10+ mins filling out stages of forms to then find the shipping/handling cost is absolutely ridiculous, and have to bail.

ghostpepper• 6 years ago

I’m convinced they do this on purpose. The more time you’ve invested, the more likely you are to acquiesce and pay their exorbitant shipping fee.

KaoruAoiShiho• 6 years ago

Or.... small companies don't have economy of scale logistics operations?

dangrossman3• 6 years ago

It's not a dark pattern that shipping actually costs everyone that isn't Amazon a lot. Go get a shipping quote from UPS or FedEx for sending a desk across the country. It's not going to be any cheaper than these stores are charging. They're not hiding extra profit in their shipping fees.

People are so used to Amazon Prime that they have no idea what things cost to ship any more. I run a small online store and every 1-pound package I mail out costs $8-12 in postage by the cheapest shipping method available to me, at commercial shipping rates. If the box is over a cubic foot in size and going to a state on the other side of the country, it can quickly double or triple in cost.

Amazon has $120/year in Prime subscription fees to subsidize the displayed shipping costs, puts some of the shipping fee into the item price (they're rarely the cheapest for most products, especially very cheap or very heavy ones), has a warehouse within 20 miles of every American so that nearly everything they ship is a same-zone local shipment, and has their own delivery network so they don't have to pay carriers. No other business has those things.

t-writescode3• 6 years ago

Tell the truth: if you went to a website, browsing for something you might buy; and, before you were shown their catalog, you were required to enter your postal information (can’t just be zip, since you might be in another country), and you couldn’t even see prices, would you stay on the website? Or close it?

I know what I would do. They’re putting too many annoying barriers on my idle browsing.

Finnucane• 6 years ago

Too bad they didn't mention bookshop.org for getting books.

binaryorganic• 6 years ago

I recently learned about bookshop, and was super excited until I actually started making a wishlist of stuff I wanted and found half of it to either be back ordered or not exist in their system at all. Turns out all orders are processed through a single book supplier and if they don’t have it bookshop won’t either.

As someone who doesn’t use Amazon, I tend to use indiebound, which just pairs you with the closest independent bookstore who has the thing you want.

iedddkke• 6 years ago

or alibris.com

ebg136• 6 years ago

I tried ordering some things from Home Depot the other day, and they silently cancelled half of my order while still charging me the same amount for delivery from the store and while saying that some things can only be delivered from a warehouse and that some things can only be delivered from a specific store and that delivery from each store has a $45 minimum purchase before they'll even consider delivery despite the fact that they're charging the same amount for delivery from the store no matter how much you order. That of course makes it difficult to then order the remaining items even if you call them and demand a refund for the first delivery fee, because the remaining items now don't meet the minimum. Then the delivery from the warehouse is some weird arbitrary calculation involving a nominal+ amount that then gets divided up across the items you're ordering (3.77 here, 2.83 there, and so on) such that if you remove any item the delivery fees for the other items all go up, and then there are some items that deliver for free if you order more than $45 worth from the warehouse which of course doesn't help you if some items can only be purchased from the individual stores. And then there are still things like cans of spraypaint that you can't get delivered at all and you're only allowed to pick up in person.

I know that right now is an exceptional time, but this kind of shopping experience is part of why people choose Amazon first.

x0x0• 6 years ago

My favorite is how home depot lists stuff in stock on the search results page, but then when you click the individual item it's out of stock.

It's a store. Why the fuck would a store ever show me an item -- at least by default -- that it isn't willing to sell me? Like who exactly wants that "feature"? It makes attempting to buy something from home depot's site an infuriating experience.

ebg136• 6 years ago

One of the items I tried ordering that was cancelled showed 34 in stock at that store while I was on the phone with them (immediately after the delivery person left) trying to find out why they cancelled my items and they were saying the items were probably out of stock in that store.

And if you have three stores within a couple of miles of you that all claim to have a bunch of stock of an item but you order from one that suddenly (allegedly) runs out, you get to go all the way back down the hill because they don't migrate stock between stores.

dvtrn2• 6 years ago

This has long been an issue I've had when trying to use online shopping/curbside pickup for grocery stores, and this comes even before the COVID-19 pandemic arrived and pushed more of us fortunate to live in cities where online grocery buying is a thing to....well start buying groceries online.

Found myself just as baffled/apoplectic as you are: why would this be on your online storefront if you don't have the inventory for me to actually buy?

Even Amazon Prime delivery via Whole Foods has this problem, to bring it back around to the thread topic.

Interestingly it's something that small e-commerce stores are much better about, it would seem (though I don't really have any data backing that up)

justforyou3• 6 years ago

Even better, you can reserve items to pickup at Home Depot online which are not actually in stock. Website quantities are not tied to point of sale, and are instead manually enteted by staff when they have the opportunity/bandwidth.

(Or at least that was the explanation given by Home Depot's customer support.)

harrisonjackson• 6 years ago

The first part sounds like a pretty terrible UI bug - it should be showing as out of stock everywhere :thinking: maybe the search results don't cross-check your selected store location but the detail page for an item does. (not excusing it just thinking where the issue could be)

A couple of reasons to show items they can't sell you right now in the search results...

1. The best reason I can think of is if you click into it and it isn't available then they could show "similar" items and cross-sell you on those - and maybe actually help you find a good alternative.

2. If you are searching for a specific item then the result should show you that item regardless of availability or you'd just keep looking for it and be confused about it never showing up in their results.

3. Maybe SEO? More listings - even out of stock listings -> more SEO juice

zo12• 6 years ago

Personally, I think this is due to "Microservices". You have a separate "search" microservice whose data is out of date or misaligned with the "product listing" microservice. Same goes with Amazon and international delivery on some level. It's gotten better over the years, but there is still such a mismatch such that you can't "filter" only "international" delivery items.

sonicggg• 6 years ago

It seems the kind of charge I would dispute with my credit card company.

jakearmitage2• 6 years ago

HomeDepot's ecommerce is a joke. Not only the shopping experience is poor, they treat logistics as if they were doing you a favor. And, on top of all that, you get damaged items. I made 7 purchases and all 7, in different periods of time, had to be returned or replaced.

Same for Lowe's. There's a reason people shop on Amazon. Other than BestBuy, no other retailer "gets" ecommerce.

coding123• 6 years ago

This is a key point. Especially for prime items, but largely to other items they sell that are not fulfilled by them. It just feels like there is more responsibility through the amazon platform than other websites.

I ordered a case of water through Amazon through a reseller. The shipment literally got lost. Amazon dispute, 20 minutes later, refund is done.

I am waiting for a resolution through Paypal from another website - off amazon - since Friday for toilet paper that will definitely not be sent. After looking at policies, etc.. they generally don't do refunds.

Though, I did have luck on one other site.

kbash9• 6 years ago

Never had an issue with costco.com where I've made some of my big purchases.

cpascal• 6 years ago

Other than BestBuy, no other retailer "gets" ecommerce

Target.com is a pretty solid experience.

Walmart.com is also surprisingly good.

Although I'm sure people can provide horror stories for both retailers.

croshan• 6 years ago

Sure, but they handle it well.

I placed an order for a pair of 35lb dumbbells, and only one came, and the cardboard box around it was falling apart.

I called customer support, probably for the first time in my life, to ask wtf happened. And they explained the logistics issue (the dumbbells were shipped separately for some reason), and ended up crediting me half the cost of the dumbbells, even though the first wasn't really damaged.

Also their dumbbells were better and cheaper than Amazon's, so there's that too.

ravenstine• 6 years ago

To be fair, the in-person shopping experience at Home Depot is exactly the same. They're staying true to their ethos. ;)

Shivetya• 6 years ago

Best Buy is great, especially for delivery.

Apple, CostCo, Ashley Home Funiture, Wayfair, Wal-Mart, and some minor players, have all performed well in my usage and those who I know also use them. Now with two I had a damaged item they did not want any part of returned, apparently this is common with free shipping deals as the return shipping for larger items can be ridiculous.

Home Depot I have to agree with assessments others have made, lost an item off their own dock and when recreating the order after two weeks of back and forth; UPS was getting annoyed too, they wanted to remake the order and charge full shipping again. Just really bad customer service. They really do act like all screw ups are yours.

sseagull• 6 years ago

I imagine this is one of those things where everyone has different experiences. Or maybe it depends on location.

We recently moved into a new house (from an apartment) and needed lots of little things renters never worry about. I have ordered quite a bit of stuff from Home Depot, from a washer & dryer to a lawn mower to random small tools and paint. Never had any issue whatsoever.

AmVess• 6 years ago

Nordstrom does it well. I buy shirts and things and they arrive reasonably packaged, and include a return print out ready to go. Returning an item is as simple as putting the print out on the outside of a box and leaving it for the mail collector.

Someone12343• 6 years ago

I had a Home Depot order delivered recently, zero padding. It was just a cardboard box surrounding the product, and the product itself had little internal packaging (inc. Lithium Ion batteries). I'm surprised Home Depot hasn't started fires before.

Luckily the product I ordered worked fine, but I wasn't best pleased when I opened it. It was pretty obvious the manufacturer designed the product packaging for retail shelves only, and Home Depot just assumed it was shipping-grade protection.

mauvehaus3• 6 years ago

I beg to differ. Rock Auto is where it's at for auto parts. The website is ugly as hammered shit, but it's fast, shows you the options grouped by rough quality level (economy/you cheapskate, daily driver, performance, etc), shows you what part to select so it ships from the same warehouse as the parts already in your cart and saves you shipping, and returns are painless (disclaimer: I've only ever done returns for core exchanges). I have never had a better online purchasing experience.

And the prices are a fraction of what you pay at a brick and mortar place. Especially for e.g. wiper blades.

Companies that "get" e-commerce are out there, but a lot of them are quietly and competently doing their thing in unsexy domains and aren't trying to eat the whole pie.

Rock Auto, for instance, isn't trying to serve every idiot on the planet with a car. If you can't keep your lefts/rights and fronts/backs straight when ordering e.g. brake hoses, you're going to find it a frustrating experience. Putting up a (small) barrier to entry to keep out the least clueful people probably helps keep their costs down.

Not affiliated, just a very happy repeat customer.

beamatronic3• 6 years ago

Target is okay although I often get cosmetically damaged packaging.

powvans• 6 years ago

I thought the same thing about Home Depot until this hit. I've had the opposite experience with them the last few weeks. Things come quickly, my cart is consistent wherever I am logged in, and I can just add pretty much as much stuff as I want and get it all delivered the next day for $9. I'm loving the express delivery. In general it would always be worth it for me to spend $9 to get stuff delivered from Home Depot. Pre-pandemic it's a solid hour or more in the car to cover the 4.3 miles there and back from my house.

Maybe I'm getting a better experience because I'm in Atlanta and there's a bit of a headquarters halo effect.

Their search and general catalog organization isn't great. I just use Google as my entrance to their site and that makes life easier.

smichel17• 6 years ago

I've been pretty happy with newegg, and my recent electronics purchases have been split between it, Amazon, and direct from manufacturer (preferring direct unless there is a significant price difference, due to counterfeit-wariness).

Spooky232• 6 years ago

That’s crazy. Target smokes Amazon for most things these days, especially with pickup. Ditto for NewEgg and Walmart.

Amazon is increasingly overrated, they peaked a decade ago and have declined to a warehouse club/flea market.

arkades2• 6 years ago

Try mcmaster-carr. They beat the stuffing out of home depot, lowe's and amazon all when it comes to hardware.

jasonjayr• 6 years ago

I assist a small drop ship supplier listing their product in Home Depot. Their item management system is absolutely the pits, and requires the use of awful protected excel worksheets in order to get mass data in and out of the system. All the product syndication systems that they recommend are obnoxiously expensive for the amount of SKUs we need to maintain due to product variants.

Overstock & Wayfair are way easier to work with by comparison.

Buttons840• 6 years ago

Even BestBuy has problems. I have an order waiting to ship I want to cancel/return (unopened) but they won't let me. Guess they'll have to go through the full return process rather than just let me cancel.

Meanwhile, Amazon can cancel items even after they ship most of the time.

battery_cowboy• 6 years ago

Target is pretty great, I replaced Amazon with Target for most things.

munificent• 6 years ago

Other than BestBuy, no other retailer "gets" ecommerce.

Sweetwater for music gear. They are the only online company I've ever dealt with that I consider better than Amazon.

FridgeSeal• 6 years ago

Chain Reaction Cycles for bike gear is unmatched, and outdoes Amazon by a mile.

Search, sorting and faceting features are unmatched: Looking for a pair of handlebars: you can filter by material, colour, width, diameter, rise, sweep, brand, stock level, price. Need some wheels, specifically a wheel set that has a 25mm internal rim diameter, for road biking, disc brake compatible, with 6 bolt disc mounts, 28 spokes, made of carbon fibre, in stock, and then arranged by discount level? Then want to buy it for an actual reasonable price, and receive it within a calendar week (pretty great considering I'm on the opposite side of the world), then CRC is literally unmatched.

Components etc are sensibly, correctly and consistently arranged by type and feature in a way that makes me wish every other online retailer would take several pages out of their book.

I've hunted for bike components on Amazon, it was a painful experience that resulted in a lot of manual searching, going between several pages trying to compare between half a dozen differently formatted and arranged spec sheets just to figure out which components were compatible, and even then the prices were not worth it.

unethical_ban3• 6 years ago

Lowe's shopping site is an abomination, a tome of anti-patterns to be researched in design classes on what not to implement in e-commerce. It is a shame, because I really would like to purchase more from non-Amazon sources.

fisherjeff• 6 years ago

Personally, I applaud Home Depot and Lowes for so meticulously recreating the utter dysfunction of their brick and mortar stores online

gbrown• 6 years ago

I’ve had good luck ordering lumber and landscaping supplies from Home Depot. No problems in half a dozen orders.

Blackthorn• 6 years ago

Zoro. Which is a division of Grainger, iirc.

Their website isn't the best for finding things, but I've never had any issues with an order from them, ever. And I've bought a lot of stuff.

markkanof5• 6 years ago

I'm really surprised to hear so many horrible experiences with Home Depot ordering online. Over the past 2-3 months I have placed multiple orders for things that are shipped to my house, and that has gone off without a hitch.

I've also placed an order for "express delivery" which seems to be a HD delivery driver coming from either a store or a local warehouse. I placed an order for a bunch of screws, insulating foam, joist hangers, etc. My ordered was placed around 1pm and I had the items on my porch by about 6pm the same day.

I also ordered a bunch of lumber, sheets or rigid insulation, etc. that needed to be delivered by truck. The driver arrived on time, used his all-terrain forklift to navigate around a bunch of parked cars (I live in a fairly dense residential neighborhood), and place the whole load right where I wanted it on my front lawn. Couldn't be happier with the whole process.

Just thought it was worth sharing some positive experiences, as a counter point to the negative ones here.

wmeredith• 6 years ago

I have also placed maybe a dozen Home Depot orders over the years with no issue. Including a fridge that was delivered last month. I also like their app.

Apparently I’m an outlier.

kevin_thibedeau• 6 years ago

DO NOT order from Home Depot online. I made that mistake once and found out that they reuse SKUs for different product models. They will pull the wrong product off the shelf because the SKU is all they go off of. Support refuses to do anything about items delivered from a local store. The store employee won't be able to readily exchange the item.

ebg136• 6 years ago

Support refuses to do anything about items delivered from a local store.

Partially true. Support may actually contact the store and negotiate a refund for you. Allegedly I'll be refunded for the from-store delivery fee for my first order that had some of the items cancelled, and I didn't talk to the store directly.

bluGill3• 6 years ago

Depending on what you want you will probably have better luck calling (not online, a voice call) your local lumber yard. They deal with contractors all the time who call their orders in for delivery so this is business as usual. They wouldn't know how to help you if you walked in the door.

Make sure you setup an account with a salesman. They work on commission, but if you know what you want they know exactly how to enter your order so your small order is easy to handle. (contractors often give them a blueprint and tell them to deliver materials which is work for them although it is more money)

richjdsmith• 6 years ago

Same story happened to me last Friday. I put in an order on their website, met their minimum delivery order amount, and yet when I got the confirmation email an hour later, I found out 3/4 of my items were being shipped to my nearest (35min, 60km) home depot.

I called customer service and was told it was impossible to change the order so all get delivered, and that it was impossible to cancel the order. My only recourse is to go to their wharehouse, pick it up, then ship it back.

I don't love amazon, but they don't pull this crap on me.

thewebcount3• 6 years ago

I'm pretty sure if you call the credit card company and do a chargeback they'll side with you on this.

rdtwo3• 6 years ago

I’ve had that happen too but I intentionally did it to get a discounted battery for my riobi drill. I got the batch discount for multiple items had the stuff I didn’t want sent to store and just had to show up to return it

monksy• 6 years ago

Let's face it Home Depot is garbage. From my experience they fail completely when at the store (employees running away from you, ignoring you, trying to avoid being asked for help, etc). The store, the way it's setup, tries to agressively cut corners. (The default for checking out is self checkout)

I went to menards and I found the experience really rewarding. It's great. They're not a great company ecologically, labor rights, etc. However, 95% of the time I have a good experience when asking for help and with the prices.

monadic22• 6 years ago

FWIW I just ordered a bunch of shit from home depot, it arrived faster than amazon could deliver it and everything I was looking for was in stock. I've also never had any major complaints in person with unhelpful staff—just the opposite. My only gripe with them is the self checkout you mentioned (why am I doing the store's work for them?), which certainly is not going to improve if Amazon moves into the retail space.

I have no clue where this impression of competence on Amazon's behalf is coming from—I must simply have radically different luck with the service they provide.

malandrew2• 6 years ago

They used to be good, but now it's worse than useless. The staff has become less knowledgeable over time and the quality of the products sold have gone way downhill.

I usually now seek out specialty places that deal with just one part of the problems Home Depot and Lowes addresses like looking for a plumbing supply place that actual professional plumbers would use.

Fjolsvith3• 6 years ago

Menards has great rebates too. I tend to think of them as tax-free income.

patagurbon3• 6 years ago

There should always be a register open, it's company policy for a cashier to be at a register at all times (at least with the most recent setup). Some people like self, others hate it. In the end, though, it's about which cashiers are on duty, and I'm sure you're aware quality can vary widely.

tomohawk• 6 years ago

Home Depot was pretty good until 2 things.

They used to hire people with actual experience in the building trades as well as regular store clerk types. The store clerks launched a lawsuit saying they were being discriminated against, and won. This was basically the end of being able to attract talent from the building trades as the settlement required clerks to have the same opportunities as skilled people.

The other thing was the hiring of the guy who used to run Burger King, who put the final nail in the coffin.

tmaly2• 6 years ago

I ordered a chest freezer from Home Depot. When I ordered it, I double checked that it was not listed as out of stock. I got a notice they were delivering on April 4. It was never delivered. The delivery company told me they were never shipped the freezer to deliver. When I called Home Depot, they said freezers are on back order to June. They told me I could call the manufacturer. This is a bit crazy. I have never had a place tell me to call the manufacturer.

light_hue_1• 6 years ago

Exactly the same thing happened to me with Office Max. I told them to cancel.

Exmoor2• 6 years ago

As someone who just got off the phone with Lowes not an hour ago with a very similar appliance delivery issue, I took a little solace in your comment since I at least feel like I didn't just choose the wrong hardware store.

With that said, the problems with my order are somewhat mind boggling. I received an email notifying me that my appliance would be delivered on 4/7 and to be home in a 12hr window. When I, by luck, contacted the store to talk about another problem I'm having with this order they informed me it will likely be another 5-8 days until its actually delivered and that this is a known issue with their system. How does a known issue where you're telling your customers to be home for a delivery on a day a week+ removed from the actual delivery survive for long enough for it to be common knowledge?

OJFord• 6 years ago

This is a bit crazy. I have never had a place tell me to call the manufacturer.

I bought a stand mixer from John Lewis, a British department store with a (arguably fading) reputation for better service, its own 5y plus guarantees, etc.

When I needed to call ok that guarantee for a replacement part, I had two months of email run around before getting a reference number and phone number for the manufacturer's UK distributor.

It was a further 3.5 months of calling the distributor, being promised it was on its way, and on occasion receiving the wrong part (once) or no part (twice).

When I complained to JLP about the experience, that I didn't feel I should have to contact some third-party distributor/wholesaler for assistance in a claim under the guarantee agreement with itself, I just got fobbed off with an email telling me to phone the number their colleague had already sent me, as if I hadn't read the email - comically ironic since it was clear from my own complaint that I had; so it was my email that hadn't been read.

Anyway, rant over. Moral: if you're in the UK, JLP not what it was, think twice for purchases where guarantee relevant; relevance: I only very thinly veiled my description of how much better its 'online competitor' is in handling returns/replacements.

John Lewis: 5.5 months emails, calls, waiting for a £20 replacement part.

Amazon: 2 minute chat and until next day wait for a whole product (~£150) replacement due to defective (~£10) part. Original to be returned ~at leisure.

Honestly even if Amazon's a few quid more expensive (at that price point), which it typically isn't, I'm at the point where I choose it just because it isn't painful when it doesn't go completely smoothly.

tln• 6 years ago

I had to place orders with three companies for me to actually get a freezer. Walmart was the only one that came through. Freezers are a hot commodity!

subpixel• 6 years ago

I had the same experience with Lowe’s. My takeaway was that nobody really cares about online orders bc they are a tiny fraction of Lowe’s business. When you call them, they direct online orders to a different extension - that told me right away the left hand didn’t know what the right hand was doing.

patagurbon3• 6 years ago

This should be obvious to you now, but all Home Depots are out of chest freezers. Same with masks and many gloves.

For the issues with ordering, Home Depot ordering systems are truly a mess. There is very little automation after your order is sent to the store. The order system (ESVS) is also just a UX nightmare, making it difficult to do anything beyond a very specific workflow.

My personal favorite bit of insanity is we list certain prices online that aren't available in store. If you go to check out and want that price in store you have to order it online and wait for it to show up in our system. Then you can pick it up at the service desk. Even if it's in your hand.

rkho• 6 years ago

I ordered some things from Home Depot the other day as well. They did not fulfill half the order, instead marking it as delivered. Attempting to resolve this issue, they refunded only 1/3rd of the missing items and then required me to go to a physical store to resolve the issue because their system literally could not fix the problem without them offering a physical cash refund.

This is likely to do with the store which fulfilled the order; I've found Home Depots to be very hit or miss in their service quality and the location which fulfilled this order has been consistently bad in-person.

Don't even get me started on how Home Depot uses location settings and keeps changing preferred stores when ordering. It's a nightmare.

mathattack• 6 years ago

This is the difference between delivery being your primary focus versus secondary focus.

twblalock2• 6 years ago

I've ordered from other traditional retail places before, like Target and Walmart and Macy's, and I haven't had a problem. They care more about technology than most people think, even though their primary focus is in-store sales.

Home Depot just isn't as good at delivery as they are. Ikea is also pretty terrible. What they both seem to have in common is a coordination problem between their inventory systems and the third-party delivery services that actually get the stuff to the customer. Most of the time the stuff they sell is too big to send through the mail.

quickthrower2• 6 years ago

I live in Australia, and there is Amazon but they don't have that much stuff compared to UK/US. So I order from other places, and it is super rare to have any kind of ordering or delivery problem. Things just arrive! In 2020 they are all using some order processing and tracking tech and it seems to go smoothly.

Also same experience in the UK with both Amazon and non-Amazon going back to the year 1998 when I was ordering motherboards online. Ordering stuff online is never a problem where I would scream "agh! only Amazon can do this!".

The only problems I have had is in the mid-late 2000's with second hand stuff from ahats on ebay, and paypal siding with the non-quickthrower2 person in most cases, I guess I got bad luck there.

sfj• 6 years ago

Over one hundred replies to this? How to get attention on hacker news, just gripe and whine about your interaction with a big corporation, I guess.

sigzero• 6 years ago

I ordered from Home Depot. We were finishing a bathroom a couple weeks into November last year. We ordered the beginning of October with a delivery date in October. Good deal. Good thing I like to check "status" often as the main item we ordered had its date changed to the end of November for delivery. So I make the trip in to talk to them. I go find the exact same item in-store and then I have to show them where it is because their system has it in the wrong place. Not a good experience with them.

omilu• 6 years ago

I ordered a car port tent thing, showed as in stock, shipping in a few days. 8 weeks later never arrived, no notifications, only an order confirmation that said shipping in a few days. I called Home Depot and they said they don't have them in stock, they refunded me and gave me a $200 credit so I was happy. Couldn't believe how broke the ordering process was though.

dexterdog3• 6 years ago

I never get why there is not a department in charge of checking orders that are obviously stuck before they become a support issue.

patagurbon3• 6 years ago

It's because those notifications, at least from the store, are manual, associates have to manage each order in a horrendously ugly and complex system.

econcon• 6 years ago

India doesn't even have any homedepot/McMaster Car equivalent.

There are some online shops which sell chemicals but they charge a lot for its delivery.

Meanwhile, you can't buy Welding rod, helmet or machines online.

tanilama• 6 years ago

If Amazon has shipping delay in US, then it is unlikely other smaller shops can fare it better.

behringer• 6 years ago

Ebay is generally cheaper and arriving on time.

dsfyu404ed• 6 years ago

Ebay seems to be doing fine. I make about five orders a week through them (this week it's mostly hardware and electronics supplies). Having the platform truly just be a transaction facilitator means the hard, linearly scaling, work of actually shipping merchandise is distributed among tens of thousands of sellers instead of hundreds of warehouses.

jshevek7• 6 years ago

At the beginning of the pandemic, Amazon was overwhelmed by people panic buying or preparing for shelter in place. The problem was not primarily the shipping industry, it was within Amazon. They've since hired large numbers of people and deprioritized [items deemed] non-essential so that people can get their essential needs in a timely manner.

StillBored3• 6 years ago

How does amazon know what is essential?

owenwil• 6 years ago

This isn't really accurate – independent retailers have quite the advantage right now because they aren't constrained by centralized fulfillment. The reason Amazon has shipping delays is because:

1) Amazon has observed a massive influx of orders and fulfilling centralized orders requires a large amount of workers in fulfillment centers – Amazon is hiring more than 100,000 workers for this reason[1] – and getting those orders in and out of those warehouses takes a good chunk of logistics planning and time. Independent retailers don't need to deal with this, particularly if they're shipping direct or use their own facilities.

2) They use their own delivery networks for a majority of deliveries in cities these days to bypass sending via the normal postage system. The platform, Amazon Flex[2], saves them money on postage but likely needs to ramp up scale–Flex usually actually means deliveries are faster, but as order volume scales up, it'll slow down deliveries.

Amazon is bottlenecked on both fronts: a massive influx of orders means needing to get those products into its warehouses, then actually having workers fulfill them, and it needs to manage the shipping side, due to its reliance on Amazon Flex in city areas. Independent retailers just aren't bottlenecked like this – they have their own set of inventory that isn't super broad, and they ship with normal delivery networks, which are generally delivering on time in North America right now.

[1] https://blog.aboutamazon.com/operations/amazon-opening-10000...

[2] https://flex.amazon.com/

MisterTea• 6 years ago

Can someone please explain to me like I'm 5 why adults have to be told that other retail outlets exist besides Amazon?

If you are one of these people, please kindly explain to me how you forgot there are other shops.

throwanem• 6 years ago

For the same reason people who use Facebook tend to forget about people who don't. Convenience is sticky. Amazon, like Facebook, spends a lot to subsidize that convenience and thus that stickiness.

It's the online equivalent of the Wal-Mart effect.

chillacy• 6 years ago

Well... there's a thing called the "literal meaning" and sometimes there's another "figurative meaning"... and as you grow up you'll end up knowing the figurative meaning of a phrase quicker until it's second nature.

maerF0x0• 6 years ago

please kindly explain to me how you forgot there are other shops.

I will provide one anecdata. Often times the first place I look for the existence of an item is Amazon. That is if I want a certain cable, I do not open and search 5-10 different places (overstock, target, bestbuy et al). I just go to amazon and choose from what they have. There may be better, there may be cheaper, but unlikely with a sufficient margin to compensate for the overhead of searching more places, learning more nuances (return policy, shipping) etc.

kube-system6• 6 years ago

Many people who shop online have only become online shoppers after Amazon became the dominant online retailer. For some people, Amazon is online shopping.

Diederich20• 6 years ago

Help requested.

My wife, who is in her 50s, is immunocompromised, and she also has a history of fast escalating and difficult to treat respiratory problems. We are and have been (for the past 32 days) treating this bug very carefully. If she catches it, she has a very good chance of not surviving it.

Our son and I are at less risk, but we can easily bring this bug home.

We've been having more and more trouble getting food. We have a fair quantity of emergency supplies, but we'd rather not tap into those.

At first it was the various delivery options: instacart, various others, but they became less usable. Early last week we started doing Amazon Prime Now, which allowed us to place and pay for orders at Whole Foods, then wait in the parking lot for them to put the orders in our trunk.

Over the past few days, this has gotten less viable. We'd find ourselves driving 50 miles to pickup a $30 order.

So, we're open to suggestions. We live in Mountain View, the SF Bay Area.

We have been able to buy quite a bit of chicken and beef, and we have a 50 pound bag of flour coming in, so we're certainly not in any danger of starvation.

It's just kind of a low-grade anxiety that kind of sucks.

Thanks!

PS: We have a pretty rigorous decontamination process that everything goes through before it comes into the house, so we feel pretty good about that.

swsieber2• 6 years ago

we have a fair quantity of emergency supplies.

If you won't use them now, when will you? Are we talking days, weeks or months?

Diederich20• 6 years ago

There are few universal truths, but one of them is this: Things can always get worse. (Even if that might be unlikely at any given time.) At this moment, we have enough normal food to not need to dip into the emergency stuff, though it's getting more challenging. Plus, we rather prefer normal food.

Basically, we don't consider our current situation an emergency yet.

smileysteve• 6 years ago

When someone in the house gets sick and nobody is supposed to leave because they've been exposed.

airstrike2• 6 years ago

Consider soylent or other meal replacement items and military rations for emergency.

Stock up on non-perishable grains, pasta, tomato sauce and canned fish. And I really mean stock up – at least 3-4 weeks worth of meals.

Not in the SF Bay Area, but WF through the Amazon app is still what's been working for us, though I have to log in repeatedly to find a delivery window available...

Diederich20• 6 years ago

Thanks for your response.

We do have a fair amount of such emergency supplies, primarily in the form of protein bars, but a lot of other things as well. We would rather leave those be until (and if) there's an actual legit emergency for us to face.

I think the Whole Foods via Amazon is still working, it's just extremely over-used in the bay area, so the orders we actually manage to get through are very small.

Cerium• 6 years ago

Instacart releases slots throughout the night. 2am to 5am are great for getting one. There are many currently lesser known delivery systems - search for ones targeting minorities. For example Yamimeal (despite having meal in the name - they do groceries). Also, buy bigger orders if you can. I have been getting at least a couple hundred dollars at once, good for 7-10 days. I would get more at once, but I want to eat some vegetables.

Diederich20• 6 years ago

throughout the night

We haven't tried at very odd hours as you suggest; we'll give it a try, thank you.

williamdclt• 6 years ago

I don't know if they can be delivered, but frozen vegetable can be kept forever and are often better than "fresh" supermarket vegetable because they are frozen right after being picked, so they actually are fresher.

My only source is my mom though, you might want to double-check this claim

r0m4n0• 6 years ago

Personally I have been utilizing Costco same day delivery powered by Instacart. The next available delivery day is usually 5 or so days out but you can modify your order until they actually start physically shopping so I just add groceries all week once I have my delivery day. I start a new order the day my last order arrives so I have a constant flow of fresh groceries every 5 days. Totally affordable (free delivery and only slightly marked up over sticker prices) and I haven't left my house in 3 weeks. Just make sure you setup replacements as I'd say 15% of items I choose are out of stock. Instacart now leaves your groceries at your front door and sends you an SMS so you don't even have to interact with anyone.

rb2k_• 6 years ago

We've had no issues getting same Whole Foods deliveries via Amazon in Menlo Park. We just had to refresh a few times over the course of 15 minutes or so and always got a slot.

alleyshack2• 6 years ago

You don't specify why Instacart "became less usable", though if your experience is like mine I'd guess it's a combination of delivery windows being a full week out and the results being somewhat unreliable between replacements/out of stock. What's been working for my household is to make the Instacart order knowing it won't be delivered for at least a week, and use that time to fill out the order as needed. We're not to this point yet but I've also thought about doing a rolling window (i.e., make one order with a delivery window of next Saturday, then start another one in two days with a delivery for next Monday, etc) so there's always something coming in.

Another suggestion, which I have not tested yet personally, would be to look up small grocers in your area. If you're willing to drive to pick up your shopping, a small grocer may be willing to prepick your order and have it ready for you in the parking lot without an intermediary.

A third option would be to check for local milkman deliveries, since many of them deliver more than just milk. A quick search for the Bay Area brings up "Bay Area Milkman" and "Milkman SF". Again, haven't tried them so can't vouch for them, but I'm keeping similar options in my own back pocket if/when we need them.

Diederich20• 6 years ago

Ok, this is all very useful, thank you kindly.

vonmoltke• 6 years ago

You don't specify why Instacart "became less usable", though if your experience is like mine I'd guess it's a combination of delivery windows being a full week out

I can't get a delivery window at all in Instacart right now. I can't get pickup of delivery from any grocery store in northern New Jersey right now.

impendia• 6 years ago

a small grocer may be willing to prepick your order and have it ready for you in the parking lot without an intermediary.

This is what I did. A small, upscale grocery near me started offering curbside pickup: you send in an order in the morning, get called to arrange payment in the afternoon, drive there the same day, and they drop off your groceries at your car. Worked perfectly. Yum.

Indeed, prominently advertised on their website: https://www.rosewoodmarket.com/grocery-curbside-pickup/

Unfortunately this is in a different state. But maybe Mountain View/Palo Alto/Sunnyvale/etc. has something similar? Where do all the vegans and serious foodies shop? I'd try there.

zapstar• 6 years ago

I have been very impressed with ordering online at Target. Many items that my local grocery store did not have were able to be shipped to me in 2 days. I hope maybe this can help with your situation, at least as far as non-perishable food is concerned.

(They do have warnings on every product now about potentially being out of stock, but so far, they've been able to fulfill every order I've made.)

influx• 6 years ago

Do you have Amazon Fresh available? You might have to check through the day to get a slot, but it's been a life saver for our family.

Diederich20• 6 years ago

We do have Amazon Fresh, it's just been hard to get slots.

When you 'check through the day', can you say roughly how many times you are checking? Thanks!

kirykl• 6 years ago

Contact local pet sitters, and see if they would do in-store shopping for you. Many have lost business with people cancelling vacations

Diederich20• 6 years ago

That's a very interesting idea, thank you!

repiret• 6 years ago

My wife is also immunocompromised, and we live in the middle of nowhere, where instacart and uber eats and all the other gig economy services don't operate.

We were able to hire our housekeeper to do grocery shopping for us.

Housekeepers; Pet sitters; more generally, there's a lot of people out of work right now, connect with them and you'll find someone who will help with your shopping.

julianramirez• 6 years ago

We’ve been using a meal delivery service like Blue Apron for several years now and have increased our order from 3 nights to 7 nights. We still use grocery delivery for snacks and other meals, but it’s been a great having dinners taken care of.

Diederich20• 6 years ago

We have been avoiding prepared meals until there is clearer data about how safe they can be.

ipsum22• 6 years ago

I'm happy to purchase groceries for you, I'm in the same area. Email is in the profile.

For other people who are also in a similar scenario: NextDoor and local FB groups are great for this.

Diederich20• 6 years ago

Wow thanks! We might take you up on that, very much appreciated.

ipsum22• 6 years ago

update: got groceries for Diederich.

gwittel2• 6 years ago

I am in MV.

Unfortunately most online things are overwhelmed. They don't have enough shoppers. You can keep checking for a slot opening up, but its a challenge and hard to plan for. Are you specifically looking for fresh items, or are there particular things you need?

Staples are usually available, and you can sometimes get them from smaller vendors online. At least those you can plan ahead for a future delivery. For some staples I've had luck with Target and random online (usually specialty/gourmet) sellers.

For fresh items, its harder -- either get lucky with online or go =/. You can try the smaller chains as they are lower foot traffic or in some cases are better at rate limiting customers. I've had luck with Ava's downtown (they also have early hours for senior and/or immunocompromised). Nijiya is rate limiting, as is Trader Joes (expect 30+ min line though). Nob Hill has been OK, they also have special pre-packaged boxes for seniors and at risk customers. They are first come/first serve, and have mixes of staples/fresh foods. They say they're available via e-cart as well, but I haven't tried. I've had to book Nob Hill ~1 week ahead (and didn't get everything). Dittmer's is also rate limiting (but sounds like you're good on meats).

As a last resort -- the MV farmer's market opens an early for seniors and immunocompromised (so either 8 or 8:30, I can't remember and its not listed online). I've been ~9 and its busier than I'd like. They're trying to enforce line spacing and do limit number of people in booths. Some booths only sell pre-bagged items held behind the counter (e.g. apples from Rainbow).

As a last resort -- maybe a shared grocery need list with friends/neighbors? Someone can pick up an extra item or two when they're out. We've been doing that at times and following usual safety procedures afterward.

Take care!

gwittel2• 6 years ago

Ace Hardware is doing curbside pickup. Cost Plus World Market is as well (they sell random pantry goods).

Diederich20• 6 years ago

I'm working (at home!) at the moment, so I can't reply properly right now, but thank you for all of this!

Ozzie_osman• 6 years ago

Rose Market on El Camino across from Castro Street also has good groceries, just don't carry paper towels, toilet paper, etc. But if you just want food they're usually well-stocked.

dehrmann2• 6 years ago

early hours for senior and/or immunocompromised

I get why stores would do this, but unless there are significantly fewer people in the store, could putting these people in one place actually be a bad idea? Is there any good data backing this up?

graeme• 6 years ago

Over the past few days, this has gotten less viable. We'd find ourselves driving 50 miles to pickup a $30 order.

You might consider making tiers of food. And maybe get a standup freezer if you have the space/budget:

Tier 1: fast perishable fruits/vegetables, e.g. bananas. You buy these in quantity at the store, but accept you’ll run out between trips Tier 2: root vegetables and other long lasting produce. You buy in quantity and store in a cool, dark place. Should last a while Tier 3: frozen meat, frozen nuts, frozen vegetables. Frozen sliced bread Tier 4: canned fish, canned fruit, canned vegetables. Canned meat/jerky

I’m Canadian. My grandma had a root cellar in the basement. Tier 1 was basically out of the question every winter for a portion of her life

You more or less arrange things as a tradeoff between tier 1, and trips to the store, which are both costly and increase exposure odds.

You also then keep checking all delivery options and look for alternate qaya to keep tier up. But tiers 2 and 3 are fairly decent.

There’s also bulk meal cooking + freezing after a store run. This is where the freezer comes in handy again.

If you have a backyard, also a good time to experiment with gardening.

It sounds like you’re already doing a good job of having emergency stockpiles. Am hopeful this might give you some more ideas for how to make the long term stockpile more palatable in between orders.

jefftk• 6 years ago

Have you considered buying from stores that normally target commercial businesses? They generally have a lot more slack right now with restaurants not running. The minimum order size is kind of high, but if you buy non-perishables it might be good? https://www.webstaurantstore.com is what I've used.

Diederich20• 6 years ago

My wife has tried that but so far she's run into the 'must be a restaurant' wall. We'll try https://www.webstaurantstore.com , many thanks.

RJIb8RBYxzAMX9u• 6 years ago

Expensive options:

- Subscribe to meal kit services like HelloFresh or Blue Apron (or both).

- Buy from other mail order grocers like Imperfect Foods, Omaha Steaks, etc.

- Hire someone with TaskRabbit to do the shopping for you, particularly from grocers that don't deliver (i.e. Trader Joe's, smaller specialty grocers, etc.).

Diederich20• 6 years ago

We actually have bought a fair amount of meat from Omaha Steaks.

TaskRabbit

I had not considered that, we'll take a look. Thanks!

tehlike• 6 years ago

I live in MTV, and I have helped a neighbor who was going through chemo once last week (so roughly in similar situation from immunity pov, her family does not leave home for same reason), and would be happy to help you. Email in profile.

I stop by costco once every two weeks, and would not mind picking up some stuff for you.

Like another commenter mentioned, nextdoor is fairly decent for getting help, you can find highschoolers doing runs for their neighbors.

Small side note: it's kind of hard finding some staples - toilet paper, eggs, etc, so make sure you are aware of it.

Diederich20• 6 years ago

That's very kind of you, we'll keep it in mind! Many thanks.

urxvtcd• 6 years ago

You could try replacing some meals with Huel or whatever.

whymauri2• 6 years ago

J. Kenji Lopez-Alt wrote a really good COVID-19 Food Safety Guide [0]. You may find it useful when preparing food at home or dealing with food delivery. He's also really active on Twitter and Reddit, so you can probably ask him more specific questions or even this question and he'll reply with some good, professional advice.

[0] https://www.seriouseats.com/2020/03/food-safety-and-coronavi...

Diederich20• 6 years ago

Beautiful, this is great. I really appreciate it.

orchard_vkm• 6 years ago

Great resource. Thanks very much for sharing!

iandanforth• 6 years ago

https://www.goodeggs.com/sfbay/home - Can be busy but slots are opening up

https://zeroshop.co/ - Limited selection but good availability

Can't speak to if they deliver to you, but both do in Menlo Park.

caymanjim3• 6 years ago

It sounds like you're shopping with alarming frequency, almost daily. Why so much? I stocked up over a month ago because it was clear this was coming, and while I've supplemented a little bit with one delivery and one shopping trip since then, I certainly didn't need to. I especially wouldn't be relying on InstaCart and other one-off prepared food deliveries with an immunocompromised person at home.

Diederich20• 6 years ago

alarming frequency, almost daily

We've only been able to get pretty small orders for a few weeks.

We incorrectly focused too heavily on building up the (not so tasty/suitable for 'normal' consumption) emergency supplies as the crisis was unfolding.

azakai• 6 years ago

Aside from Whole Foods, Amazon also has Amazon Prime Now (go to https://primenow.amazon.com/ and pick store: Amazon). They have a lot of staple foods there, and sometimes they have more availability than Whole Foods. (I'm guessing there might be different bottlenecks at Whole Foods stores and Amazon warehouses.)

Another option are restaurant deliveries. Those are easy to get (they're happy to get the orders!). Up to you how you feel about the risk, but all the experts I've read say you can reduce the danger there to something comparable to grocery delivery (mainly to discard the original packages and you can also reheat the food).

JoshTriplett• 6 years ago

Definitely try alternate services. We had much more luck with local stores than with Prime Now. In our area, Prime Now for Amazon has never had a delivery window, Prime Now for Whole Foods rarely does, but the local Fred Meyer has delivery windows open up regularly, often for same-day delivery. Also check Albertson's, Safeway, Target, Walmart, Shipt, and any other service. Talk to local non-chain or small-chain stores and see if they have any options; I've found that several places that don't normally delivery are happy to deliver in the current situation, especially for a tip. That goes for restaurants, pharmacies, and many other services. In some areas, TaskRabbit and similar are still operating, and "pick up XYZ for me" tasks are very common. And if all else fails, ask around for someone willing to pick things up and drop them off for you, and pay them well.

Also, this may depend on your financial situation, but if you can, don't make small orders; make large orders less often. (This is true all the time, but it's especially true right now.) Then, even if you have to drive a long distance for a pickup or pay a larger delivery fee, you don't have to do it as often.

Animats3• 6 years ago

Costco is still shipping. I just ordered about $135 worth of stuff, including fruit, bread, milk, and hand cleaner, for delivery today.

djrogers• 6 years ago

That depends entirely where you live - around me, this is aboslutely not true for all intents and purposes (no delivery windows available, or no products available, or both).

pottertheotter• 6 years ago

My parents live in Sunnyvale and my mother is also immunocompromised, so they're going through the same thing. They have some people helping them get things from stores, and I'm absolutely certain they would be happy to help out your family. Feel free to reach out (email on profile) and I'll make sure you're taken care of.

credit_guy• 6 years ago

Some restaurant suppliers have opened their online store to individuals. I can't speak for California, but in New York City we just shopped yesterday on baldor[1]. For most items the minimum quantity is way to high for a single family (e.g. for potatoes you can only order 50 lbs or so). But you can still find some stuff. It's not a very pleasant online shopping experience, but it'll do for now.

[1] https://www.baldorfood.com/

everybodyknows• 6 years ago

For produce, eggs and chicken, consider a "CSA" -- Community Supported Agriculture:

https://www.sfgate.com/bayarea/article/CSAS-THAT-DELIVER-TO-...

gnicholas• 6 years ago

I hear Sigonas Market has their own delivery service. I go to their store in Redwood City and at the Stanford Shopping Center, but dunno if they'd deliver to or have shops in MV. Prices are quite good on some items, but they're not full-service (no meat, I think).

tehjoker• 6 years ago

I'm on the east coast, but I'm participating in a mutual aid network that does exactly this kind of thing. Try googling your local branch of the Democratic Socialists of America (I think you're in Silicon Valley DSA's territory). Each chapter is independent and not great at communication with each other, but I found a web page that said SV DSA is doing grocery delivery mutual aid for elevated risk people. I don't want to post it here because I don't want them to get trolled, but it's easily to google.

I only mentioned DSA because I'm member of the national org, but there are probably many other organizations doing similar work. Please be safe and stay healthy! Good luck!

Edit: Just want to emphasize to people in a similar situation, that the key words to search for are "Mutual Aid" on google, facebook, and twitter if you don't know someone already connected to an organization. Many of these orgs are also looking for volunteers.

pkaye2• 6 years ago

Trader Joes seems to follow a bunch of procedures that makes me feel safer. They limit the number of people controlled by staff at entry. They space out those waiting in line and at the counter. They given you sanitizer for the cart and hands. If you are especially concerned, speak to the manager of the store. They are willing to bag things up for you to pay and pickup. Atleast our store manager was nice enough to offer but in the end I felt comfortable to shop by myself. Also wear a mask when you go and use sanitizer when you return to the car.

Lastly there are many people on nextdoor in your community that will help out with shopping as a good gesture. You just reimburse them the cost of what they bought for you.

arkades2• 6 years ago

Tried freshdirect?

It takes a bit to find an open slot for their Recurring Orders, but since we've gotten one they haven't let us down. It's the one-off order slots that don't exist.

rainbowzootsuit2• 6 years ago

I found the following videos helpful in explaining how to apply sterile technique to processing groceries.

Many are just using gloves or masks as a talisman to ward off the corona but not appreciating how these PPE items, when used poorly, are likely worse than having no PPE, a few items for sanitizing, and awareness.

https://youtu.be/sjDuwc9KBps

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0wTWrQoDhPw

temp167• 6 years ago

Happy to help, I live in SVL and can deliver groceries or pick up if you would like.

Diederich20• 6 years ago

Wow, thank you so much. We've gotten quite a few offers.

fernly• 6 years ago

The Market at Edgewood (Embarcadero at 101 in Palo Alto) has an online order form and brings the order out to your car.

https://www.marketatedgewood.com/delivery

sarah2079• 6 years ago

I am also in Mountain View and haven’t been in a store since February.

I have been able to place pick up orders with Nob Hill Foods for two weeks out (delivery has not been available lately).

One of my husband’s colleagues has had good luck with Draeger’s via Instacart (he said same day!).

If you make an Amazon Fresh cart and then refresh the page where you select your delivery window a lot between 9 pm and 12 am you can sometimes catch the new batch of delivery windows being released. For most Amazon Fresh warehouses they are released at midnight, but it is controlled by the local warehouse, and ours releases the new slots at random times in the evening. When I can get a slot Amazon fresh is my favorite—good selection and 90% of what I order actually arrives, which is great.

My husband also mentioned a friend successfully having toilet paper delivered from Home Depot.

peterwwillis• 6 years ago

Driving 50 miles ? There's tons of places for groceries in Mountain View...

Here is a list of CSAs and farms near mountain view: https://www.localharvest.org/search.jsp?map=1&lat=37.412895&...

Try the Farmstead app: https://www.farmsteadapp.com/

Some stores are near you on Mercato: https://www.mercato.com/

Check grocery stores near you on Yelp; call them to see if they deliver, I'm sure some do (Safeway definitely used to): https://www.yelp.com/search?find_desc=groceries&find_loc=mou...

Grocery On Wheels seems to prioritize deliveries to senior citizens, they may also make an exception for the immunocompromised: https://www.groceryonwheels.org/

You should also check the news, google and call any wholesale food distributors nearby you, the ones that deliver to restaurants. Near me they have been delivering boxes full of fresh food to residences for very low prices, something like $35 a box.

Basically, abandon the idea of national chains, look for local places. In rural areas this is nearly impossible; near and in big cities, there are tons of options. And don't forget to look for non-white-owned businesses - but you might have to actually ask someone nearby, as they don't always advertise on Google.

adsljfl3• 6 years ago

I'm using a CSA which guarantees delivery: https://www.goldengateorganics.com/

There are some CSAs that target south bay that might work for you. These support farms and you get a strong assurance that you will have food every week.

We also have enough rice and beans in our house that we can probably go for about a month without groceries. Make sure you have rice and beans.

Tender greens is also delivering grocery boxes: https://www.tendergreens.com/blog/002020-grocery-boxes

I would also try smaller stores on Instacart.

Finally there are several groups doing shopping for people like you, my Nextdoor feed has them posting regularly.

neonate• 6 years ago

https://archive.md/k3zNE

monkpit2• 6 years ago

Https cert error

Animats3• 6 years ago

Amazon is holding up much better than other online retailers. Ordering works fine. My Amazon orders are showing up, although slowly. Safeway and Smart and Final can't even give me a delivery slot. Smart and Final's web site was failing over the weekend - Cloudflare timeouts, login timeouts, false credit card declines, HTTP error 461 (there is no standard 461 error.), and a "Site undergoing maintenance" message from their "DevOps Team". Back up now, though.

StillBored3• 6 years ago

Yah, the only thing that's been arriving from Amazon lately are the things sold and shipped by 3rd party sellers. Frankly, i've been paying the extra to just order from the smaller shops lately because amazon's critical "prioritization" algorithm doesn't seem to know what is actually critical.

Part to fix my cloths washing machine? 3 weeks from Amazon, two days from Granger.

Problem solved, plus unlike a similar part I ordered a couple months ago from amazon, I'm pretty sure the granger parts aren't counterfeit. The box stamped "Made in U.S.A" is likely legitimate.

grimjack002• 6 years ago

Part to fix my cloths washing machine?

Appliances are apparently "non-essential", according to several governmental orders. Local news here in Denver made a big deal about the city putting a padlock on the doors of an appliance retailer.

gniv• 6 years ago

Did you mean grainger.com ?

StillBored3• 6 years ago

Yes, I managed to type it incorrectly twice, and noticed it after the edit button expired.

larrik4• 6 years ago

Right when this all was starting, I had finally chosen a bass guitar I wanted. I decided to try and support a non-Amazon business in GuitarCenter (the local music shops focus a lot more on school band instruments). So, I order online, and pick the "pick up at store" option, since it says they are in stock.

I show up, and an hour later they figure out that they don't have it in stock, they only have the floor model (which I can have for a whopping 5% off...). Apparently, the system (a green screen app, no less) can't tell the difference between "new in stock" and "floor model". I got the rundown of their logistics chain (which is basically just UPS), and I lost confidence that even ordering ship-to-home online again would even work. So, I bought it from Amazon for the same price and got it later that week...

selykg2• 6 years ago

Check out Sweetwater next time. They are significantly better. Their site actually shows you each guitar/bass they have in stock and they have an entire gallery Of photos for each. If you order one they’ll send a zip or the whole collection of photos.

If you call and talk to the sales rep for you (you’re assigned one) they can usually knock 5-15% off.

They also make sure each guitar/bass is setup to factory spec before sending it out.

sosborn• 6 years ago

I second this recommendation. Sweetwater is great and their sales reps know what they are talking about.

larrik4• 6 years ago

Never really heard of them before. Looks like everything I bought is out of stock anyway, but it's good to know there are alternatives.

hsitz2• 6 years ago

Sweetwater is good. BHPhotoVideo is also excellent for music stuff (as well as tech in general). Free shipping, great service, affiliated payboo credit card that covers sales tax, saves me 10% on every order.

mdesq• 6 years ago

Home Depot and Lowes do this same thing with certain items like dishwashers. It's obnoxious. Their website will show that they have "1 left in stock" but it's the demo model that's installed in a rack of cabinets and not for sale.

JoeAltmaier• 6 years ago

Yeah. I phoned an implement dealer, to buy a mower I saw advertised in their online store. Wanted to make sure he had set actually eyes on recently, because we've all had online listing be wrong. "Yeah we have that. I saw it … yesterday?"

So I rent a trailer and drive 4 hours, and guess what? Just a square of yellow grass on the lot where the mower used to sit.

drivers99• 6 years ago

Of all the guitars and basses I've bought at Guitar Center and other places, it was always the "floor model" I bought. That seems pretty normal. I don't think "floor model" is the right term. You're trying out the exact ones you're buying off the floor.

dehrmann2• 6 years ago

Good point. Unless it's a super generic entry-level guitar. I bet you can find a new Squier Strat in its original box.

larrik4• 6 years ago

I've definitely bought floor models before, and for the guitar it was fine. I was worried about what abuse the floor model amp may have been through, though, and neither item would come with all of the extra stuff (manuals, tools, etc). The 5% off felt like an insult after the BS I went through, and I didn't want to stand around waiting while they wrestled with the system to apply it, either.

backtoyoujim• 6 years ago

reverb.com is a great option for music related equipment.

zerd• 6 years ago

And I got a used managed switch from Amazon. It was neatly packaged, but no plastic, strips etc, and the IP was different, and default user/pass didn't work. Factory reset worked though, so I didn't want to send it back and wait for another one as I needed it now.

benbristow• 6 years ago

I usually prefer to use Amazon just because the experience is so simple and in the UK their logistics delivery service is pretty good with live tracking when the parcel gets near to your home.

Amazon can be annoying when using third party sellers though and might end up getting dispatched with an alternative delivery service, god forbid Royal Mail who don't have any live tracking feature.

I'm always happy to help out smaller/alternative businesses though if they offer competitive prices and use decent delivery firms like DPD.

double0jimb02• 6 years ago

Amazon has massive network of 3rd Party Sellers who ship items directly from their own warehouses, not relying on Amazon’s currently-hobbled fulfillment centers

You can find these by selecting “other sellers” on the Amazon product page.

This has been the way to get stuff quickly on Amazon for the last 3 weeks.

Then on Friday, with no warning or explanation, Amazon extended all shipping times quoted out to April 20th, including the shipping times provided by 3rd party sellers.

This extension has no basis in reality, as 3rd party sellers have not experienced any shipping delays because they don’t use Amazon’s warehouses.

This was a hugely anti-competitive move by Amazon that has severely impacted 3rd party sellers and directly misleads consumers.

Numerous 3rd party sellers have reported this situation to the DOJ.

If any reporters want more info, please reach out. Email in profile.

CPLX• 6 years ago

For what it's worth, the solution is just to order whatever you want anyways, and watch it ship to you 2-3 days later.

double0jimb02• 6 years ago

Well of course, but most people go by what they read on the screen in front of them at the time of purchase.

buzzert• 6 years ago

If anyone is looking for computer parts, I gotta shoutout Newegg. Been using them for more than 15 years, and they’ve been extremely great at delivering during the pandemic.

ShamelessC• 6 years ago

With all the social distancing going on and my general laziness towards staying active without being forced to, paired with the massive hype surrounding Half-Life: Alyx, I decided to build a VR ready computer.

Newegg was fine. I'd been using them since my first build 15 years ago. But this time I also had access to the amazing website pcpartpicker.com. Not only do they make it easy to find parts that are all compatible with each other, but you'll also be given multiple shopping options with discounts.

Most of it I got from Newegg but I was able to save about 75$ by getting the PSU and MoBo from bhphotovideo.com which was a surprisingly good experience.

BTW, HL Alyx is as amazing as they say and you really don't have to spend a fortune to play it. My entire build was only 650$ and my VR headset of choice (Samsung Odyssey) only 270$. I was worried I'd made a mistake by going with a cheap headset but it works very well.

vernie• 6 years ago

I've been using eBay lately. Sellers have been consistently delivering in 2 days and it feels just as likely that I'll get fake shit as from Amazon these days.

dawnerd5• 6 years ago

I sell on eBay and it's pretty easy to beat Amazon. Most first class and priority packages arrive in under 3 days depending on your location to an airport. I'm right next to PDX and almost all of my packages go through there and end up on the other side of the US overnight. Those packages typically take two days. Also helps I ship same day so they're on a flight that night or the next morning.

As for the fakes, they certainly exist on eBay but it's a lot easier to spot. If an item doesn't have good pictures, that's a huge red flag. I personally stay away from sellers that just use stock images. I want to know exactly what I'm getting.

kube-system6• 6 years ago

I avoid shady listings when I really need the item, but if I'm looking for a deal, I've never had an issue leaning on eBay's buyer protection. I've gotten all of my best deals from poorly-listed items.

renewiltord• 6 years ago

I was going to say how Amazon might as well be the only guys online but this article is really good and offers real alternatives. Very cool.

ww520• 6 years ago

Is it possible to ask for price reduction or refund on the Prime membership due to the long delivery time? The point of Prime is mostly moot without the speedy delivery.

dawnerd5• 6 years ago

I cancelled my prime for the time being and it automatically refunded the 12.99

salvagedcircuit• 6 years ago

Ironically, I find that I am ordering more from Mcmastercarr and digikey more than ever.

chadash• 6 years ago

pro tip: I find that when things sell out on Amazon, there is often a lag before it sells out on sites that cater to businesses. The first place to check is staples.com, but I've even started placing a few orders with restaurant supply stores and such.

rsync• 6 years ago

Mcmaster-carr is fantastic:

https://www.mcmaster.com/

Very simple UI with access to technical diagrams. Good pricing. If I order before noon or 2pm or something, here in the bay area I receive the items next day.

I wish all web stores could be like this.

ncheek• 6 years ago

McMaster has a powerfully simple website. You can get to any item with mcmaster.com/<part number>. They often provide 3D models of their parts. You can even paste in a list of items to quickly bulk-add to your cart. It just works.

Their customer service is also second to none. I've never had the phone ring more than once before being answered by a real person. And they'll respond 24/7 to phone calls or emails. Oh, and they've accepted returns a year after I bought something, no questions asked.

In the Atlanta area they usually deliver same-day via courier, or you can drive over to their warehouse for will call.

McMaster can often be more expensive than other distributors, especially for things like metal stock (I recommend price-comparing with onlinemetals.com or midweststeelsupply.com but be careful about Midwest Steel's processing times). But you're paying for the service and ease of use.

Probably the biggest problem I have with McMaster is their lack of insight into shipping cost. They don't give you even an estimate of the shipping before you check out, it just gets added once they ship. I will say their shipping prices have always been fair but it can be scary to buy something not knowing what it will cost.

spacemark• 6 years ago

I've probably put in 100 McMaster orders over the last year via work, side gig, and home projects. My take on this is that their prime customers (businesses) do not put shipping costs in their top 5 or maybe even top 10 priorities. Businesses pushing out products or engaged in rapid prototyping or meeting a deadline are much more concerned with speed, and McMaster always beats Amazon in shipping time to my workplace (usually less than 24 hours from order to delivery, no joke). Their customer also values accurate technical data so they've put a lot of effort into CAD models and are very responsive to customer service calls.

In short, they know their customer persona. I wouldn't hold my breath that they'll add upfront shipping costs any time soon!

xkjkls4• 6 years ago

It's actually very similar to the UI you get if you go through the business section of Amazon: https://www.amazon.com/b2b/info/amazon-business?layout=landi...

nkkollaw• 6 years ago

Sure, Amazon might not be the only one, but every time I tried to buy somewhere else, something happened.

They charged me twice, charged me to never sent me the product and forcing me to waste 2 weeks, sent to the wrong address, etc.

Amazon seems to be the only one that can actually do their job properly without hassles.

Waterluvian• 6 years ago

My wife orders from walmart.ca often. It's generally good but still feels lower quality than Amazon (which has its own issues, yes). Last week they shipped an entirely wrong item. So my kids aren't getting their Duplo set for Easter.

Someone12343• 6 years ago

One reason previously for using Amazon was recommendations for example their "Customers who viewed this item also viewed: [list of alternative items]." Unfortunately the recommendations boxes like the "Customers who viewed this item also viewed" have been completely removed, with no real replacement except "sponsored."

I don't consider sponsored ads a replacement for actual recommendations based on real people's buying behavior. Obviously Amazon wants us to though so they can double-dip. Personally I am buying less, not more, because I cannot find things.

But maybe it is more profitable to Amazon for us to spend longer looking, more sponsor spot revenue. Talk about perverse incentives, make more money from a slower shopping experience.

beamatronic3• 6 years ago

Reading this entire thread, something became very clear to me: there is STILL a lot of room for improvement to be made for online e-commerce. Someone should invent a local-first inventory-first Amazon

sneak5• 6 years ago

Like a local delivery-only costco, perhaps?

derrekl• 6 years ago

I emailed a local comic shop that’s closed to the public, but I was able to order $100 worth of trade paperbacks. Got it 2 days later. No “online” shop, but still worked. As best you can, try to spend money with the local stores you used to go to.

tanyatik• 6 years ago

Is it even ethical to shop on Amazon for non-essentials these days? There are big concerns amid worker safety.

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/04/05/technology/coronavirus-am...

xkjkls4• 6 years ago

I'm not sure these concerns are unique to any other business with a warehouse, however.

awaythrower2• 6 years ago

Also beware of phony Magento sites that don't have actual products, but are just trying to get CCs, PayPal or crypto payments.

prox• 6 years ago

How does that work? I’ve seen a lot of copy paste webshops of formerly retired domains. They obviously look quickly hacked together (allthough looking professional enough to the untrained eye)

awaythrower2• 6 years ago

I would bet scraping from Amazon, reducing prices randomly from 20-50%, and being sure search engines and aggregators see it, i.e., Google/Google Shopping.

sneak5• 6 years ago

A lot of the things I used to buy on Amazon I buy on eBay instead using “buy it now”. Even free shipping items are frequently less than Amazon.

I’ve already phased out AWS, I hope to stop using amazon.com by the end of the year. I don’t like doing business with military contractors.

bdcravens2• 6 years ago

I assume you use Linux for your operating system then? Both Apple and Microsoft do business with the military.

sneak5• 6 years ago

My personal morals find a difference between “we sell physical goods and anyone can buy them without restriction” and “we will build you a whole set of dedicated custom data centers with racist hiring policies”.

https://aws.amazon.com/govcloud-us/

Also, Apple doesn’t sell OSes. One could buy secondhand Macs.

Linux is used by the military, too. The issue is not “not matching”, it is a question of providing financial support to those who deliberately assist in the undertaking of violence.

Selling (or giving away) your goods to all comers isn’t that. Custom services and consulting absolutely is.

There’s also that whole Apple tapping-iCloud-in-China-for-the-CCP thing. I don’t think I’ll be on iOS much longer, especially now that Signal is fully cross-platform and runs on iPad. I’ve already deprecated iMessage amongst everyone I talk to in anticipation of the switch. Hell, I’ve even been on broadcast radio talking about how iCloud will leak your private data.

I think it’s a mistake to view the attitude of Apple toward military contracting (not just sales) as the same as that of Microsoft or Amazon. If when Apple employs hundreds of people who are full-time embedded in the military to help them use their products, maybe that situation will change.

To your point, I have moved off of GitHub, and have encouraged others to do the same:

https://sneak.berlin/20200307/the-case-against-microsoft-and...

We can all take small steps to improve our choices each day. Over time and across people, these things add up.

The worst thing we could do is assume that every choice is the same and carries the same negative consequences and act uncritically. In that vein, I appreciate your pushback: critical thinking about our choices should be the one constant. There is always a place we can improve.

bradenb• 6 years ago

While I respect your right to not give "military contractors" your business, I just don't see how you can use it as justification. The military is a resource and isn't inherently good or bad.

RuleOfBirds• 6 years ago

The U.S. (and others') military may be, by definition, a resource that isn't inherently good or bad. But the military is most certainly good or bad in actuality (i.e. the real world) according to many peoples' definition. I can see how anyone could use that as justification.

malandrew2• 6 years ago

FWIW it's the military that is now building all the field hospitals and sending hospital ships to help with COVID-19

373hbedudu2• 6 years ago

I've done similar for almost the exact opposite reasons ironically. I don't care about them being a military contractor but I don't order from a soulless Megacorp to deal with their PR campaigns like self imposed sale restrictions of mask or sanitization supplies. It's driven me to order more from Wish and Alibaba.

CodeSheikh• 6 years ago

Amazon's (+Wholefood) supply-chain failure is an eye-opener for me during COVID-19 crisis. I hate to acknowledge my dependability on Amazon Prime while living in a big city. I am not sure how I will break my habit but I know for a fact that I won't be ordering everything from Amazon Prime in the future.

For a company that commands e-commerce space in year 2020, it is really frustrating to find this workflow while ordering from WF while using Amazon's app, it is a joke and UI/UX 101 blunder. You add items to your cart. They run out of inventory. Items disappear from your cart. Either you place your order assuming all items were in your cart or you don't get a delivery slot and you have to add those items again. Why can't they just borrow the same feature from Amazon.com where unavailable items move conveniently to "Save later" section?

jupp0r• 6 years ago

To any other non-amazon stores out there: have toilet paper in stock and I'll give it a try!

rchaud• 6 years ago

Best Buy's ecommerce site is great; they don't have the absurd levels of info overload and upselling of a typical Amazon page.

In Canada, Amazon's electronics offerings are rife with awful Chinese brands sold by dropshippers. Amazon seemingly doesn't carry any of the inventory themselves unless it's a Fire tablet or Echo.

It's actually a big relief to shop online via at a proper outlet (even Walmart.ca is more reliable) than through the Bezos flea market.

tmaly2• 6 years ago

Amazon was sold out of bakers yeast as were the local grocery stores. I was able to order from a specialty place. The order was delivered 2 days later. The price was very reasonable.

For certain things, I am seeing some serious prices. People are selling cotton masks 4 for $25. That seems a little steep given that a box of N95 masks went for $6 before this.

I just ordered parts for building a new computer. I had to order from 4 different places as Amazon did not have half of the items in stock. There are definitely some supply chain issues.

LatteLazy2• 6 years ago

Amazon Isn’t the Only Shop Online

They sort of are at the moment, at least here in greater London...

My normal groceries company have cancelled online orders silently and will not deliver anything. They can't even update their websites with new opening times.

The local DIY (B&Q) store are taking order for essential items only (loft ladders and plants are essential, but not light bulbs or fuses wtf?)

Amazon randomly added a month to all their delivery estimates but everything is still coming in a few days and I can get whatever I want.

To be honest, it makes sense to manage infrastructure of supply centrally. That's the genius of amazon, not retail but supply. While other companies can barely ring up items, Amazon connects buyers to sellers before either know the trade will happen.

thewebcount3• 6 years ago

Instacart in Los Angeles did this to me. I ordered groceries and the local store uses Instacart to deliver them. When they didn't show up, I had to call Instacart to find out they had canceled my order. They were just not going to tell me, apparently.

LatteLazy2• 6 years ago

I can understand that places have problems with volume of orders or items not being in stock. But it should be really hard to cancel a client order and NOT tell them. How is it they don't have something that emails you when your order is killed already and automatically!?

olafure• 6 years ago

I used to use Amazon a lot. The two big factor were pricing and reviews.

Today their review system is massively rigged and can't be trusted.

giancarlostoro• 6 years ago

Amazon is the only shop selling the most convenience. At least Walmart and Target have online order and parking spots to pick up your orders from, but I can only imagine a lot of old brick and mortar type of stores are way behind the times. Just some stories on here are horror story level examples of the night and day kind of service you can get in regards to buyer convenience.

gtm12602• 6 years ago

Its so unfair to expect consumers to go through hell on these random websites with poor UI/UX, customer service, logistics, and inventory monitoring systems. I don't think amazon should be able to crush small businesses etc, but I don't think appealing to people's sense of personal responsibility is the answer.

There needs to be a viable way for other businesses to compete with amazon's level of service if they want consumers to change their habits.

Kalium• 6 years ago

The logistics, inventory management, and customer service operations at the scale of Amazon are something that become possible with truly immense scale. They're crushingly expensive at small scale - call center, warehouses, pre-positioning goods, etc.

There are definitely ways to outsource any or all of these things, but at a cost in quality. I know I've often had unpleasant experiences with outsourced customer support call centers. Tools like Square or Shopify help, but only to a point.

So I think my conclusion might be different from yours - small, local businesses need a viable way to compete with Amazon in ways where Amazon doesn't have a vast advantage.

gtm12602• 6 years ago

Ah totally! I agree with your conclusion. I guess with the measures in place right now to fight COVID, the areas where Amazon might not have a vast advantage like niche selection, deep knowledge in a certain product area, being able to buy something in store immediatley etc. didn't occur to me.

Wistar5• 6 years ago

Although the focus is somewhat narrower than amazon, for my professional needs I have had nothing but an excellent online experience with bhphotovideo. I have ordered hundreds of items worth tens of thousands of dollars from them starting about 2007. Their site can be a little frustrating, mostly from not narrow-enough categorization, but their app for iOS is very good. Their prices are usually as good and often better than amazon. The users' product reviews are useful and well-written and the site/app shows which reviewers are verified purchasers of the product they are reviewing and offers comprehensive review filtering.

They also invest a lot of effort in producing their own product demo videos and articles done by obviously knowledgeable people which, given the breadth of their catalog, is particularly impressive and serves well more than just to shill their wares.

They have great packaging for shipping and I have not once had an order go missing or show up broken or damaged despite many of my orders being fragile items.

Well-oiled machine.

noncoml• 6 years ago

Another B&H Photo Video happy customer here.

Pity they were forced to start charging state taxes. Call me a conspiracy theorist, but can't help to think that Amazon was somehow involved in that.

fmela• 6 years ago

Right or wrong, you can get around the sales tax using B&H's Payboo credit card (for use on their site only): https://www.bhphotovideo.com/credit-cards

kevindong• 6 years ago

B&H Photo Video started collecting sales tax due to the Supreme Court case South Dakota v. Wayfair (2018) which held that retailers can be compelled to collect sales tax even if they don't have a presence in the state.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/South_Dakota_v._Wayfair,_Inc.

radicality• 6 years ago

Also just started using them, great so far!

fyi they are about to close for a week because of passover

Wistar5• 6 years ago

True. And they also close their online orders and physical store for Shabbat every weekend.

bosswipe2• 6 years ago

I avoid them because of their known racist and sexist employee segregation.

Wistar5• 6 years ago

Wow. I had no idea.

https://www.thenation.com/article/archive/workers-fight-back...

cactus20932• 6 years ago

I'm also a fan of B&H (even more before they charged sales tax outside of NY), but prices "often better than amazon" isn't true. For any brand name purchase of the type you'd get at B&H like a camera or computer, it's gonna be the same price on Amazon or Best Buy or Adorama or any other major online retailer. The prices are dictated by the brand along with rules on what kind of sales are allowed and when, so retailers can't undercut each other.

Amazon can be kind of hit or miss in niche products like camera gear though, so B&H might have better selection. And the listings on a site like B&H are more uniform compared to the wild west of Amazon's 3rd party sellers, so I do like it better for browsing.

Wistar5• 6 years ago

I can't write to your experience but I have on many occasions found the very specific thing I want on BH for less than it is available via amazon — if it is even available on amazon.

alyx• 6 years ago

Tried placing an order online Saturday afternoon, only to be informed that the website was not taking orders due to Shabbos.

I very nearly skipped over to Adorama.

The mind boggles trying to resolve why a server cannot accept an order while staff is respecting Shabbos.

schwartzworld• 6 years ago

B&H is run and staffed by Hasidic Jews. They have strict definitions of work that are forbidden on the Sabbath and they may not always be intuitive to outsiders, for example, for many religious Jews, pressing the elevator button is forbidden, but riding in an elevator that is programmed to just stop on every floor is fine.

Your mind is free to boggle, but Jews are entitled to close their businesses on the Sabbath just the same as Christians. In the county I grew up in, everything but supermarkets is closed on Sunday, for example.

op00to• 6 years ago

Adorama is run by observent Jewish people as well.

A4ET8a8uTh0• 6 years ago

Last week experience. I tried gettin display port to hdmi for my docking station for work on Amazon. It was in Amazon basics category. Solid shopping experience, but it was not sent for 3 days so I cancelled. Annoying, but cancellation experience was great. I decided to do pick up from BestBuy. Great. Store near me has one in store. I purchase at 5PM. At 6PM ( when they close ), they send me an email saying they don't have it in store anymore. Great, but I can't cancel w/o creating account. Can't reach live person, because, ironically, Covid19. Screw it. I bought on CC. I can dispute it later. I go to Newegg. No issues. stuff gets here in 3 days.

Amazon isn't the only store and its convenience is waning during this outbreak. They are lucky they are doing so many things right compared to competition.

Personally, I am debating dropping Prime, which I had for one main reason:fast free shipping.

badrabbit• 6 years ago

Two things about amazon:

1) Their customer service is astonishing! Still have not seen better. Google might just take over the world if they came even 20% close to Amazon with this regard.

2) Their giftcards. I don't know what it is but theirs has the highest value. Even visa and mastercard will not be accepted at some places if you don't have a cash gift card, but amazon's have incredible purchasing power.

ehnto• 6 years ago

As a developer with most of my experience in boutique and enterprise eCommerce, I am surprised this is a conversation piece! There are plenty of large and small online retailers who are doing just fine. If you think Amazon has everything you are definitely mistaken, but for many it's probably enough of everything.

I encourage everyone to buy directly from manufacturers and local businesses where possible, especially if you are not from the US. We feel like we want an Amazon dominant market, but the effects it has on what products exist and what businesses thrive is somewhat insidious and unseen.

yeutterg• 6 years ago

Amazon third-party seller here. If a Prime product is showing a long delivery time, try to look for non-Prime offers. You want to find offers that say "Ships from and sold by X," where X is NOT Amazon. The reason being, these sellers have their own fulfillment and may be able to beat Amazon's speed by a wide margin.

We now offer this for our product, and I know a lot of other sellers are doing the same. We used to only have a Prime (Fulfilled by Amazon) offer, but this crisis caused us to adapt as customers were getting 1-month delivery estimates.

We enabled "Fulfilled by Merchant" offers on our account, and I sent some inventory to my apartment (and ordered lots of shipping boxes). Within a couple days, the self-fulfilled option got the "buy box" on Amazon, so now most people viewing our listing will see a delivery estimate of about one week. It doesn't have the "Prime" badge, but we get a decent number of orders through this, enough to survive.

We send out all orders with First Class Mail, and I pack them up around 3PM each business day in order to get them to the post office by the 5PM cutoff. It appears most customers are receiving orders between 2 and 5 days after ordering (including the opposite coast). This is even faster than the time estimate customers see on Amazon, and way faster than Prime.

Disclaimer: your mileage may vary.

arbuge• 6 years ago

I'm having increasingly bad experiences on Amazon. The most obvious ones are common problems - the reviews can't be trusted, and they're no longer price leaders in many cases. But there are some new experiences I'm running into now.

Today, for the first time ever, I was double-charged for the same order. Customer support claims I was only charged once and there's no way to upload them a screenshot of my card statement so that they can see what I'm seeing. To be clear, these are two real charges (not pending charges or temporary authorizations) for the same order.

homero• 6 years ago

How are the shipping companies keeping up? That's the bottleneck.

wiredone• 6 years ago

Amazon’s value isn’t in the fact it’s a store with great shipping. It’s the trust component. Returns are simple, shipping and stock management is a non event and they have basically everything. Every other online shopping experience I’ve had has been hit and miss. Get the simple things right And sure I’ll try it. But no one has just look at these comments.

alias_neo• 6 years ago

This is an important thing to remember. Just last night, I was ordering an item on Amazon, and pointed out to my wife that it is gonna take a week to delivery on prime.

That's fine, there's more important things going on in the world. But she said; "Why does it have to be from Amazon? If you're not getting it Prime speed, why not buy it elsewhere?"

So I went to the manufacturers website and bought it directly, and it was 15% cheaper than Amazon, and will supposedly arrive a little faster.

I think I may try do this more. I already do this, where possible to support small businesses.

radium3d• 6 years ago

Prices on amazon have been way higher than alternatives lately. Be sure to check other online outlets.

LoSboccacc• 6 years ago

yeah but the less shops you use the smaller the surface attack for your personal and payment information

yCloser2• 6 years ago

EU here, things seem pretty good here.

* I ordered 20kg of oranges from sicily, no shipping costs, arrived in 2days

* Coffee, same thing

* a bass guitar, same

* groceries are delivered in a day from local shops

* for electronics i bought from many shops, usually takes ~1week. still OK for a washing machine or those big items

...seems that "the infrastructure" that amazon required for ups/dhl/* are being used by any other (even tiny) buisiness.

My only complain is Ikea. Ikea doesn't cooperate.

_n_b_2• 6 years ago

Totally OT but where did you order the oranges from? I am in need of a few kg for juicing and it's expensive from the local grocery delivery folks around me...

yCloser2• 6 years ago

from www.aranciadoc.com

thirdsun• 6 years ago

Not to mention that returns/refunds are a non-issue over here since the EU enforces sane minimum customer protection standards. I never had to worry whether I’ll be able to return an item, regardless of where I purchased it, which still seems to be an important consideration for many commenters in this thread.

non-entity• 6 years ago

The thing about Amazon though, was the luxury of being able to order stuff and have it by my door the next day. This was especially great for products where the traditional brick and mortar retail died out a long time ago for that industry (i.e. electronic components) or stuff that you want / need regularly but isnt carried in stores near you.

Amazon Isn’t the Only Shop Online

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