Brendan Eich becomes Mozilla CEO

https://brendaneich.com/2014/03/mozilla-news/

by bevacqua • 12 years ago

396 524 12 years ago

drawkbox• 12 years ago

Excellent choice, Mozilla is killing it with WebGL + asm.js right now among many other things. Probably the best Firefox and Mozilla has ever been so far. As a game developer targeting WebGL/asm.js what they are doing is awesome, almost like a new console. Both Unity and Unreal have their engines running well on it. Mozilla is the new game developers favorite, Chrome is nice as well but needs something like asm.js optimizations.

scrollaway• 12 years ago

I hope they reconsider putting more funding and efforts behind Persona. In the list of things that the web needs, it's pretty high.

doesnt_know• 12 years ago

They have already "handed it off to the community" so they can focus on other things. It won't be getting more funding or effort from Mozilla.

edit: I just reread and realised you said "reconsider" and not "consider". Implying you already knew this, sorry.

Here is the blog post in case anyone missed it anyway: http://identity.mozilla.com/post/78873831485/transitioning-p...

and on HN:

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7362613

ianbicking3• 12 years ago

Brendan was very involved with the decision to mothball Persona, so you can be pretty sure this won't change that decision.

NinjaWarrior• 12 years ago

Both Unity and Unreal have their engines running well

Running well? You'll know there are still tough problems next year. No one download 100 MB or 200 MB scripts and assets to play a game. In the past, all such resource rich Flash or Unity Web Player games have failed. No exception.

The relief is Mozilla people actually know this problem (I talked with them at GDC).

AAA games are just too rich to "browse" on the web. People close their browser windows within several seconds. Typical home internet bandwidth is narrower than Blu-ray or DVD-ROM, even in advanced countries. Furthermore, browser cache can't handle big resources. You won't even gain server costs.

rybosome• 12 years ago

Have you played a flash game lately? The initial program begins running really quickly, where it then downloads assets using a separate loader while a splash screen displays. Sony also ran into this problem with the massive files (20 - 40 GB) for their disc-based games that are also available for download, but somehow (in many cases) the games can be played while the download is happening, as the most critical parts are downloaded first.

Browser gaming may or may not take off, but I really don't see asset-size being the rope with which it hangs itself.

chimeracoder2• 12 years ago

I'm curious how common the CTO→CEO transition is.

The only other one that stands out in my mind is Etsy, though I know there are others I'm missing.

In any case, congratulations are in order. I don't know much about Eich, but I'm a huge fan of the work Mozilla's done. Their focus on privacy and unrestricted software becomes more relevant by the day, so I have high hopes for this change.

andreastt• 12 years ago

He was an SVP of Engineering in between, I believe.

raldi3• 12 years ago

It also happend at Justin.tv / Twitch: http://techcrunch.com/2011/08/29/after-a-hot-start-justin-tv...

ndesaulniers2• 12 years ago

Do I smell IPO? :P

vitno• 12 years ago

I was gonna scoff at you. then I looked at who you were and I was like rolls eyes oh /n...

ndesaulniers2• 12 years ago

For everyone not in on the internal joke, the reference was to this clip: http://video.foxbusiness.com/v/4578856/mozilla-ceo-on-the-la...

curiousAl• 12 years ago

Brace for incoming (revived) controversy[1].

1. http://projects.latimes.com/prop8/donation/8930/

mikeash5• 12 years ago

Which controversy you've now made much more likely by bringing it up. Thanks a whole lot.

nsmnsf8• 12 years ago

I agree, knowing that homophobes are in public places of power is a good thing.

Eich shouldn't be able to enter a room without being berated, until he concedes and gives up his bigotry.

anon13855• 12 years ago

I guess 2 years is long enough for most people to have forgotten the brief storm about his homophobic political activities. I wonder if this appointment would have been made 18 months ago when that was still fresh in people's minds. I can't help thinking that it doesn't really fit with the image Mozilla tries to present of themselves.

http://tommorris.org/posts/2550

masterleep• 12 years ago

Oh noes! Someone whose political beliefs differ from my own! Burn the infidel!

anon13855• 12 years ago

Eich can rage as much as he likes about inter-racial marriage or homosexual marriage or single parent families or any other topic that gets social conservatives upset. Similarly, other people are free to criticise his views. Especially if he is going to choose to take on the role of being the public face for a large institution.

turing• 12 years ago

Actively working to restrict the rights of a marginalized population goes beyond simply holding a personal belief. He is free to donate to whatever anti-gay cause he wishes, but we are also free to hold him accountable for it.

nsmnsf8• 12 years ago

This is not "raising taxes". This is human rights.

PhasmaFelis3• 12 years ago

I do wonder if you'd react the same way if he wanted to recriminalize interracial marriage.

Recoil42• 12 years ago

That's somewhat disappointing. Has he ever made a public statement on this?

vamega• 12 years ago

https://brendaneich.com/2012/04/community-and-diversity/

chimeracoder2• 12 years ago

When looking to effect change, one has to build coalitions, which sometimes means picking battles.

Eich apparently does not believe that I deserve the same rights that he does, but if he is a champion of other values I hold, does that mean I should write him off entirely?

While I might prefer someone in a position like his to share all my political views, that's not really feasible. The ones that are relevant to his position as CEO of Mozilla are his views on privacy, software freedom, etc.

It's especially relevant to note that this is a donation he made "privately" as an individual (it's public due to financing laws, but it's not the same as (e.g.) giving the keynote address at a NOM event.)

I happen to disagree with his views on Proposition 8, but unless they translate into discrimination in the workplace (which is an addressable problem in itself), I might be willing to support his work in one field while separating myself from his personal viewpoints in another field.

fingerprinter2• 12 years ago

If he was a developer, architect or something else like that, I'd generally agree.

However, he is now CEO. Imagine just how many people he'd alienate inside Mozilla by basically saying "I don't think you should have the same rights as me".

This is not just another political topic, no matter how people would like to frame it that way. This is about treating people the same. You can still think that homosexuality is wrong and support gay marriage. But someone who goes so far as to say no to gay marriage is basically saying they view that group of people as less than another group of people and should have less rights.

This is unacceptable.

apendleton• 12 years ago

His position as CEO (as opposed to CTO or whatever it was before) changes things. Many companies, for example, offer spousal benefits to their LGBT employees' partners even in states where gay marriage isn't legal and they're not required to so by law. That the CEO doesn't believe LGBT people are entitled to the equal benefits as compared to straight people may predict the likelihood of such an organization to take enact such policies, or maintain them if they already exist. It also may not, but as a gay person, were I a current or prospective employee of Mozilla, this would give me pause. Even leaving aside whether "hate," "homophobic," etc., are appropriate here, there are potential practical implications here, and the insistence that this is a private political matter that has no impact on his professional life is problematic.

mscarborough3• 12 years ago

I did not know this was a thing. Wow. I don't care about how he donated his money to support Proposition 8, privately or publically, but monetarily and personally supporting discrimination is wrong.

coffeemug2• 12 years ago

  "One can not do right in one area of life whilst he is occupied in
  doing wrong in another. Life is one indivisible whole."
    - Ghandi

This is true of individual contributors, but it becomes progressively more relevant for people whose primary role is setting the vision for other people. The best companies tell the same story to their employees, investors, users, and journalists. Their people, products, marketing, and culture is one indivisible whole.

A homophobic CEO could run an oil company just fine. It's much harder to do that for Mozilla, where brand, community, and ethos is a much bigger point of differentiation than the products themselves.

jessaustin• 12 years ago

When looking to effect change, one has to build coalitions, which sometimes means picking battles.

If only this could have been the last word on this issue. I salute you, 'chimeracoder, for your fairness and rationality.

Was the recently-mooted "comment pre-approval" process delayed for some reason? If any HN comment thread could be rescued by that, surely this is one.

akmiller• 12 years ago

I wouldn't call denying certain groups of people rights a "political view". It's not a political view to say that a black person shouldn't be afforded the same rights as a white person...it's racism. Call Brandon what he is...a bigot. He believes that because of the way a person is born they don't deserve the same rights as himself. So, to answer your question, no you shouldn't support him no matter what views you have in common. And definitely don't give credence to this idea of denying a group of individuals rights by calling it a "political view"...it's bigotry plain and simple.

bdcravens2• 12 years ago

it doesn't really fit with the image Mozilla tries to present of themselves

Personally I think the company's ethos is consistent with NOT suppressing freedom of speech or political expression.

TazeTSchnitzel6• 12 years ago

In what way? If anything, I'd think they support it.

npizzolato9• 12 years ago

No one is saying he shouldn't have been allowed to donate money to prop 8. Freedom of speech means you are allowed to say whatever you want (i.e. saying something should not be a crime punishable by the government).

That does not mean that everything you say should be void of consequence in the realm of public opinion. I for one am glad that Brendan Eich was allowed to make this donation. Now I know that he stands for a position I view as indefensible, and I can choose to remain far away from him and the company he now leads.

icebraining4• 12 years ago

Not making someone CEO is suppressing freedom of speech? Can I be CEO of your company, or are you trying to suppress my views?

WoodenChair7• 12 years ago

So now anyone who opposes gay marriage is homophobic? You do know that homophobia is defined as "an extreme and irrational aversion to homosexuality and homosexual people." (New Oxford American Dictionary)

Edit: Clearly I touched a nerve - before the hate mail comes in, I should clarify that I don't oppose gay marriage. I support the elimination of government sponsored marriage all together.

antimagic• 12 years ago

Precisely. There is no rational[1] grounds to oppose gay marriage, so we are left with the only remaining possibility - irrational aversion to homosexuality.

[1] where by "rational" I mean justifiable with facts and statistics to back it up.

recusancy• 12 years ago

I'd say that working to keep a group of people from gaining rights that I already have are extreme and irrational.

PhasmaFelis3• 12 years ago

So now anyone who opposes gay marriage is homophobic?

Yup, same as anyone who opposes interracial marriage is racist.

There's not a minimum threshold of bigotry. You don't get to say "How bigoted can I be without people calling me a bigot? ...I can't be bigoted at all?!? That's not fair!"

camus22• 12 years ago

So now anyone who opposes gay marriage is homophobic?

Yes,like anyone who opposed civil rights for blacks was racist.

xutopia• 12 years ago

Someone purporting that gay couples should not be allowed to marry are homophobic just like someone purporting that blacks should not be allowed at the front of the bus are racist bigots.

josefresco3• 12 years ago

Bigoted ...was the word he was looking for.

humanrebar30• 12 years ago

Half of the state of California voted for Prop 8. Supporting it isn't exactly outside of mainstream politics.

camus22• 12 years ago

Like supporting racial segregation was not a big deal in the south until the civil right act.

nsmnsf8• 12 years ago

Mozilla now cannot hire a LGBT employee without creating a hostile environment for them.

This is a big fucking deal.

yid• 12 years ago

Mozilla now cannot hire a LGBT employee without creating a hostile environment for them.

His private donations as an individual have nothing to do with necessarily creating hostile workplace environments.

bdcravens2• 12 years ago

Perhaps. But corporate America is filled with tons of leadership that in their private lives go to evangelical Christian churches, many of which oppose gay marriage. In private, those same CEOs probably express similar opinions. The only difference is that BE donated a paltry sum in support of a public law. That's the only issue. Discourse around this will change only one thing: the next time they'll give the money to a cousin to make the donation.

zabraxias• 12 years ago

Mozilla's leadership is far more complex than the person holding the CEO chalice. Assuming he wanted to impose his personal views on marriage down to the company there would be a revolt and it will result in his termination.

The board that elected him ultimately holds more power. On a different note if you knew Brandan you'd know that he would never steer the company in such a direction. My only regret is that he will likely resign after his turn at the throne is over. Hopefully he will choose to stick around as a board member.

debacle6• 12 years ago

Isn't Eich in favor of marriage privatization?

icebraining4• 12 years ago

I'm in favour of abolishing State-granted marriages too. But that's no reason to support the abolishment of gay marriage, since it will do nothing for the cause, just maintain an inequality of rights.

EC12• 12 years ago

You're causing a fuss because he donated $1,000 to prop 8? Hardly homophobic. I can't believe some people are so petty.

eropple7• 12 years ago

Is "they don't deserve the rights I enjoy" anything but homophobia?

(Unless this is a dictionary attack where you're over-parsing "homophobic" as something other than "anti-gay" in some odd quest to prove a meaningless point, in which case, get on with your pedant self.)

brador• 12 years ago

How big a donation would cross the line for you? $10? $100k? mil?

For many who are opposed to prop 8 1c crosses the line.

seivan3• 12 years ago

I still remember this. I haven't forgotten. I do my very best not using Mozilla products as far as I can. Not using Firefox nor recommending it to anyone as well when they ask for browser.

anaphor5• 12 years ago

Firefox is the only completely free libre web browser that is also mainstream enough to be successful (no Chrome is not completely free software). So you're recommending that people give up their freedom to make a political point? That seems stupid.

waterlesscloud4• 12 years ago

Was the computer you're using made in a country that allows gay marriage?

__david__2• 12 years ago

You probably shouldn't use Javascript either. I hear this guy invented it.

fidotron2• 12 years ago

No one ever changed their opinion on account of being subjected to a lynch mob or encountering a glass ceiling imposed as a result of it.

If you disagree with B.E. then be an example to him of what you hope to achieve: mutual tolerance. Hounding does not achieve anything except increasing animosity all round.

egeozcan2• 12 years ago

Sorry but no one is supposed to tolerate intolerance.

staccatomeasure• 12 years ago

"No one ever changed their opinion on account of being subjected to a lynch mob or encountering a glass ceiling imposed as a result of it."

That's the most unfactual thing I've heard in a long time.

mrottenkolber2• 12 years ago

Good to know.

freditup2• 12 years ago

The problem with blacklisting someone for a political view is that it can always be done. Right now, it's popular to call people who oppose gay marriage laws 'homophobes' and throw them under the bus. (In this thread, a lot of people seem to imply that Eich should have some sort of repercussions for his donation such as not getting this job.) Let's take a look at some other similar parallels:

- Saying people in favor of abortion are for legalized murder, and not hiring them because of that

- Saying people opposed to abortion oppress women, and not hiring them because of that

- Saying people who support raising taxes are for legalized robbery, and not hiring them because of that

- Saying people who oppose more relaxed immigration laws are racist, and not hiring them because of that

The list could go on, but the point stands. You can always characterize your political opponent as some sort of monster. But you never should.

wpietri19• 12 years ago

Court after court has found that there is no rational basis for preventing gay marriage. Most recently, one in Michigan: http://www.freep.com/assets/freep/pdf/C4220110321.PDF

The parallels you offer are missing the point, because none of them suggest a CEO has an irrational bias against a significant fraction of his employees. This donation, though, does. Unless Eich has convincingly apologized and demonstrated different views, you have to bet that a lot of people in the San Francisco office and elsewhere are wondering, "Given that my new boss may have an irrational bias against me, is this going to affect my benefits, my chance at promotion, or my working climate?"

That's entirely material to his position as CEO. Mozilla is competing with the world's top tech companies for talent, and their main advantage is a clear belief that they're doing good. Anything that taints that could make hiring harder.

skore5• 12 years ago

I'm very tired of this brand of relativism that is unfortunately rather popular in tech circles, no matter how progressive we like to think ourselves.

"Similar Parallels"

No, there is a looooong gradient along which the issues you mention (and issues like homophobia) can be placed. Society moves in a certain direction - if you graph public attitude towards homosexuals, there is a clear trend. Similar graphs can be drawn for abortion, womens rights and immigration reform.

On the other hand, directly equating "raising taxes" with robbery sits at a very steady equilibrium of whoever currently uses that sort of logic to kill arguments. Most recently (ie. past couple of years), it is mostly being picked up by the libertarian mindset which is in turn utilized by the more mainstream political right in the US.

We all make choices and our combined choices influence how that graph progresses, but you can directly compare an individuals position with the median position in society. Removing or blocking people from powerful positions when they seem to be too removed from that median is a fundamentally and democratically sound mechanic.

nostromo• 12 years ago

It's actually an interesting question: When does a political opinion become untenable?

Slavery was once a political opinion. Women's suffrage as well. There are many other more extreme examples from abroad.

Calling a position political doesn't absolve its owner from consequences.

I think in the Bay Area, opposing gay marriage has crossed over, and is no longer simply a political opinion upon which decent people may disagree.

jowiar3• 12 years ago

One thing worth considering is that this could, potentially, open up Mozilla to a wrongful termination/hiring discrimination/harassment lawsuit in the future. Mozilla's CEO is on the record expressing a belief that gay people deserve less rights than straight people, and sexual orientation is a protected class in the state of California.

I'm not saying that such a suit would win, but this issue definitely falls under the category of "public statements to be careful of making if one is going to be in a decision-making position".

mindslight6• 12 years ago

I too have a hard time accepting that in our Enlightened Year of 2014, an individual is allowed to commit such brash thoughtcrime with impunity. I presume that shortly they will be checking his standing with the parties and that's the last we'll be forced to hear from him! I, for one, am looking forward the remainder of his ilk finally being liquidated so that I can think my own thoughts in peace.

gdulli• 12 years ago

Why is it acceptable to limit the range of political views someone in this position is allowed to have? I lived in CA in 2008 and voted against Prop 8 but I didn't dehumanize the people who disagreed with me, I couldn't have handled the irony of it.

bluthru• 12 years ago

It's not ironic to not be tolerant of intolerance.

angersock2• 12 years ago

So, if you follow your link, you don't see any comment from Eich--just a bunch of angry attacks on him and others (including ESR, fair or not).

The linked HN discussion from that link in turn has two top comments basically saying "This doesn't matter (as a Mozilla employee" and "This doesn't matter--his technical work is separate from his private life."

So, while it is quite the little tempest in a teapot you're kicking up, I'd like to leave you with a question:

What have you done that puts you in a position to justify your criticism?

As far as the public image of Mozilla, I personally think it is one of being the last free-ish hackers working on the 'Net, and an appointment of the creator of Javascript is directly in line with that.

(Why don't you limit yourself to attacks on the man's work instead of the man? After all, there are parts of JavaScript that can be found to be pretty gay, in any particular meaning of the word you choose. I, for example, find myself giddy every time I get to use functions as arguments to other functions and doing manual application and currying.)

tommorris9• 12 years ago

After all, there are parts of JavaScript that can be found to be pretty gay, in any particular meaning of the word you choose.

How about in the preferring-the-sexual-and-romantic-company-of-the-same-sex sense?

Because as a gay man and a programmer (admittedly one that greatly dislikes JavaScript), I'm really failing to work out the connection.

macspoofing• 12 years ago

I missed that bit of news. It's been 6 years since Prop 8, I'm curious to hear what his reasons were and what his position is today - usually a person's ethics and moral views evolve with time.

JohnTHaller2• 12 years ago

When asked about it in 2012, he did not retract it or change his views publicly: https://brendaneich.com/2012/04/community-and-diversity/

falconfunction• 12 years ago

and he invented javascript

MichaelGG2• 12 years ago

Yeah has he issued an apology for that? There was that book, Coders at Work, I think, where the feeling I got was "I was given a few days and forced to come up with something that looked superficially like Java so..."

to3m• 12 years ago

Quite. The man may yet change his stance on gay marriage, but we cannot now uninvent Javascript...

catshirt2• 12 years ago

my thoughts exactly. today i'll be striking Mozilla from the list of companies i'd potentially enjoy employment with.

Nelson69• 12 years ago

Has anyone left github in light of what's come out? From the comment activity, I find it hard to believe that people don't take those issues seriously but I can't say I've heard of much of an exodus from it. There are tons of options too... And, ATMO, the more time between when anything else comes out (if it does) the less likely people are to care. Are there people on the fence that are going to move to another service if the founder isn't sacked or something?

I think you could easily look at Mozilla the same way. It's free software, there are tons of alternatives you can use and a lot of you probably already do and this was a personal donation... I hate to say it, but I think a lot of people sort of like to talk support for various issues up a bit more than actually doing things to support them. It's easier to get emotional and post some messages and tweets than it is to actually do something.

davidgerard3• 12 years ago

Yes, they have, and many are preparing to move. I've set up a local repo at work.

leoc3• 12 years ago

I can't help thinking that it doesn't really fit with the image Mozilla tries to present of themselves.

Mozilla offers mass-market products. That means that there are many many people who, for example, use Firefox and watch FOX NEWS—and that Mozilla would dearly like for there to be many more of them. I guarantee you that Mozilla doesn't seek, and would be mad to seek, a public image as an organisation that blacklists people for holding mainstream US conservative views.

Secondly, if one accepts the principle of industry blacklisting, and not only against individuals with exceptionally marginal or extreme views, we can assess, for example, the HUAC blacklists in this light. Were they proper and appropriate? If not why not? Perhaps because being a mid-century Stalin apologist is entirely forgiveable but being a Prop. 8 opponent is beyond the pale?

enraged_camel• 12 years ago

Legend has it that when critics of Gen. Ulysses S. Grant complained to President Abraham Lincoln about Grant's drinking, Lincoln replied, "I wish some of you would tell me the brand of whiskey that Grant drinks. I would like to send a barrel of it to my other generals."

Lincoln knew that Grant's drinking was a problem, but he also knew that Grant was the best man for the job. In fact, he had appointed several other generals before Grant who were "well-rounded" with no obvious flaws, but this grossly backfired because they also had no strengths that stood out. In contrast, the South employed generals who were really really good at a few things(and bad at lots of things), and they gave the North a really hard time despite having inferior numbers and equipment.

burntroots3• 12 years ago

This is an ideological sideshow. What do his political beliefs have to do with him being CEO of a company? Does he have to think doubleplusgood thoughts to run a company?

thinkpad203• 12 years ago

If you're a gay or lesbian employee of that company, I'd think it has a lot to do with it.

tsax• 12 years ago

Let's all eat each other in this holier-than-thou contest. It seems to be where everything is heading anyway with reduced privacy. The personal is now political or made to be.

suprgeek• 12 years ago

I guess what we are saying is that once you become CEO any and every opinion you hold is fair grounds to oppose/vilify you.

If there were any suggestions that his private opinions were impacting Mozilla policy/road-map/work environment whatever then yes this stance does beg the question.

OTOH what this debate is implying is that if there is any hint of disagreement over opinions between adults, then all bets are off and we lose the ability to work together or tolerate that other person as the head of a corporation.

saosebastiao• 12 years ago

As much as I dont think it will happen, I would love to hear Graydon Hoare speak on the matter. As a fairly high profile (creator of Rust) Mozilla developer that has spoken out against Mozilla in the past about its policies regarding workplace harrassment and discrimination, I wonder if he is as concerned as many of the HN commenters here.

ryguytilidie2• 12 years ago

Those responses so well sum up the modern internet.

"Sure someone donated a thousand dollars to taking away the basic civil rights of others, no problem. Glad he was being so "christian" in his love of all others, except gays, since we all know they aren't people who deserve rights."

"But man, did you see that guy who made a tweet about how he was offended by this??? This has turned into a Christian hating, bigoted witch hunt!"

mavdi• 12 years ago

Good man. Certainly deserved both ways.

nsmnsf8• 12 years ago

Good man

...

I can't even. I'm so incredibly disgusted.

fidotron2• 12 years ago

This is good, but also somewhat inevitable.

It's interesting that all announcements play up the interim CEO's involvement in Firefox OS. I have felt for a long time that it's going after the wrong target in Android, and should instead go up against Chrome OS. Will be interesting to see how the priorities change, if at all.

fabrice_d• 12 years ago

Mozilla is not going "against" others for the sake of it. We build what we feel is better for the web and its users, and we do it where we think we stand a chance of being successful at a large scale.

As for proposing an alternative for ChromeOS, I'm mentoring a GSoC project to turn firefox OS into a Desktop Environment (see https://wiki.mozilla.org/Community:SummerOfCode14#Firefox_OS...) which could be a first step in this direction.

nsmnsf8• 12 years ago

Mozilla is not going "against" others for the sake of it.

Brendan Eich is, though, apparently.

Touche• 12 years ago

Why do you think Android is the wrong target? Mobile is in much greater of a need for browser disruption than is desktop, where competition is fierce and led to many wonderful innovations.

pekk3• 12 years ago

It makes sense, given that Mozilla's purpose as an organization seems to have primarily become the promotion of the Javascript language

pcx• 12 years ago

I beg to differ. Mozilla is making substantial contributions to Web as a whole and Firefox has never been better.

pekk3• 12 years ago

... where the metric for contributions and better is filtered through the idea that web apps should only run on Javascript

tinalumfoil2• 12 years ago

Yes. That's completely logical. Donating to prop 8 and supporting JavaScript go hand in hand! How are people not seeing this? (I honestly can't tell if your comment was a joke)

wizzard• 12 years ago

I have a feeling you don't know what Brendan Eich invented...

sigvef• 12 years ago

Gary Kovacs stepped down last summer, does this mean that Mozilla has been without a CEO for almost a year?

rubiquity• 12 years ago

What it means that Brendan Eich has probably been fulfilling the CEO role for at least 6 months or so and this announcement is most likely just a formality due to everything running smoothly.

At first I wasn't sure how I felt about this announcement, but then I realized I've actually been quite happy with what Mozilla has been up to for the past year or so, and I imagine that's been under a lot of influence from Eich.

r0muald• 12 years ago

Jay Sullivan, our acting CEO during the executive search

from <https://blog.mozilla.org/blog/2014/03/24/mozilla-leadership-...

WoodenChair7• 12 years ago

I'm guessing this is another hurdle in the Dart VM ever making its way into FireFox.

Nyubis• 12 years ago

Interestingly enough, it seems like he doubts support from Safari and IE sooner than Firefox: http://www.infoworld.com/d/application-development/what-java...

WoodenChair7• 12 years ago

Yeah I read that a long time ago. That article is really dated...

clarkevans• 12 years ago

I hope Brendan restores Mozilla's Persona project.

State of the art federated authentication is overly complicated by solutions bundling enterprise features such as resource authorization and directory services. These additional features should be factored out since they can be layered.

By contrast, BrowserId's parsimonious take on federated authentication (via an email handle) is refreshing.

dangoor• 12 years ago

Persona was only recently de-funded, while Brendan was already in charge of Engineering.

I don't think it was because of a lack of belief in Persona and the value of pursuing federated identity. I would guess that it came down to priorities.

quesera• 12 years ago

Looking forward to learning his opinion of "user-enhancing" advertising as part of the Firefox application.

l33tfr4gg3r• 12 years ago

So scripted ;)

avenger123• 12 years ago

This might be a good thread to turn on the new commenting feature.

debacle6• 12 years ago

New commenting feature?

snsr• 12 years ago

All comments will be censored until up-voted by multiple users with 1000+ karma. These pending comments will only be visible to the same subset of users.

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7445761

seivan3• 12 years ago

One reason to use https://etalio.com instead of Mozilla Persona is that Ericsson CEO is not a homophobe.

Osmose2• 12 years ago

The weekly public Mozilla Project meeting has some discussion from the executive team about the change and will have Q/A later on: https://air.mozilla.org/the-monday-meeting-20140324/

sos3• 12 years ago

I think Mozilla is making a mistake. I've met Brendan several times and I don't think he'll be a good CEO. His political views are not aligned with Mozilla's views as a company and that might come up as an issue at some point later.

debacle6• 12 years ago

I've met Brendan several times and I don't think he'll be a good CEO.

Why?

adl• 12 years ago

I'm curious about this statement, what political views does he hold that you think are not aligned with Mozilla's? (besides his known contribution to proposition 8)

dhimes3• 12 years ago

MODS: This would be a damn fine thread to try out that new comment widget pg was talking about the other day.

theorique2• 12 years ago

On the one hand, he's homophobic, but on the other hand, he's a great technologist. I guess they sort of balance out, right?

jaibot• 12 years ago

I'm guessing that his non-straight-people-shouldn't-have-the-same-rights-as-me side is sufficiently outnumbered within Mozilla that he won't rescind any of the equal opportunity/friendliness stuff the organization provides.

theorique2• 12 years ago

Agreed ... bringing that into the workplace would probably contravene a bunch of laws as well as HR regulations. Even though he may be CEO, he's neither above the law nor the rules.

ianbicking3• 12 years ago

A bunch of people here seem to be wondering whether this will mean a substantial change to Mozilla's strategy. This seems very unlikely – Brendan has been on Mozilla's steering committee for many years, and involved in many key decisions in the past year. I expect him becoming CEO means more of the same – if you like what Mozilla is doing, then you should be happy, and if you wish it was doing something else then you should probably look elsewhere.

edtechdev• 12 years ago

It means pigs will fly before Firefox supports alternative languages like Dart or Typescript, since JavaScript is his baby. I'd be surprised if asm.js even continues to be supported, he's argued so strenuously against the idea of javascript as assembly, even though there are now almost 100 other languages that compile to javascript: https://github.com/jashkenas/coffee-script/wiki/List-of-lang... and Google, Microsoft, and Facebook (hack) are all sticking to languages that use types.

ianbicking3• 12 years ago

He has always very actively supported ASM.js. He's also stepping away from involvement in JavaScript standardization efforts so he can focus on his new position, so this will actually decrease his involvement in those specific areas. None of that probably helps native Dart support at all – there's probably close to zero champions for that sort of thing at Mozilla regardless of Brendan.

wahnfrieden• 12 years ago

Please re-title this as "Mozilla News" as per the guidelines, thanks.

Zikes2• 12 years ago

Wow, I almost can't tell if I'm on Hacker News or Tumblr. Brendan Eich made a mistake 6 years ago, let all of us Social Justice Warriors break out the pitchforks and show him the true meaning of tolerance!

Honestly he's never made any impassioned rants on the subject, never spoken out against gay marriage, never reportedly acted out against any homosexuals in any way. He only made one small donation to what was, at the time, a very popular political campaign.

Maybe he was misguided, or misunderstood the reality of what Proposition 8 would mean. The campaigns were certainly filled with misinformation that suckered in a huge number of Californians. I know we technophiles like to think we're cut from a better cloth than that, but there are days we're just as gullible as the next.

We're all guilty of lapses of morality at some point in our lives. Hopefully we learn from those mistakes. Hopefully Brendan will, as well.

m0a0t0• 12 years ago

I think if he had thought better of it he would have released some sort of statement on it. Until then he actively tried to prevent equality and should be called out on it.

raldi3• 12 years ago

What the high-rated HN comments are not calling for:

* Eich to be stabbed with a pitchfork

* His family to be threatened

* Protests outside his home

* Harassing phone calls

* A Firefox boycott

* His termination

* His demotion

What the HN comments are doing:

* Quietly acknowledging that the donation happened

I think it's a far cry from a witch hunt.

hashbanged2• 12 years ago

Whenever someone starts out their argument by claiming that their opponents are Tumblr SJWs, you know that they're not looking to be convinced otherwise.

mercurial6• 12 years ago

I'm not sure how "quiet" that is considering the number of comments. That said, this is HN, not 4chan (though you certainly see the 'sexism-is-not-a-thing' crowd crawling out of the woodwork at every opportunity).

Wrt to Eich and his donation, I'm on a the fence about it. I don't like mobbing on people, especially on the Internet. Especially when the people concerned have not made their reasons public. On the other hand, upon reading Proposition 8, it's difficult to imagine many other reasons than deep conservatism or homophobia for supporting it.

Ah well. I suppose Brendan will trend very carefully, and he certainly has enough technical credibility that nobody will attack him from this angle. I'll also note that a number of figures popular on HN are more well-known for their amount of wealth than their moral character. Maybe one of his crimes is not being rich enough?

leoc3• 12 years ago

What the HN comments are doing:
* Quietly acknowledging that the donation happened

With all due respect, this is not an accurate summary. What many comments including the original comment have been doing is seriously broaching the idea that an anti-Prop. 8 vote is a serious grounds to disqualify someone from being Mozilla CEO. Sometimes a bit coyly, in a "nice car, shame if something happened to it" manner, but that's immaterial.

ryguytilidie2• 12 years ago

I still haven't found a single person in this thread who both supports Eich and didn't use incredible hyperbole/completely misleading info to do so. I'm loving the high frequency of "no one is perfect!" or "We're all guilty of lapses of morality at some point in our lives.", because, as we all know, since you made a small mistake once you would be hypocritical to criticize a company for hiring a homophobic CEO...and that is how modern logic works folks!

Zikes2• 12 years ago

Currently at #2 on the HN front page: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7461210

Calling for:

✔ A Mozilla boycott

✔ His termination

✔ His demotion

nsmnsf8• 12 years ago

Maybe he was misguided, or misunderstood the reality of what Proposition 8 would mean

How could this possibly ever happen? You'd seriously have to be a complete moron. Here's the complete text:

Section I. Title

This measure shall be known and may be cited as the "California Marriage Protection Act."

Section 2. Article I. Section 7.5 is added to the California Constitution, to read:

Sec. 7.5. Only marriage between a man and a woman is valid or recognized in California.

Pretty fucking simple.

charlieh4• 12 years ago

I would lay long odds that upwards of 90% of the U.S. citizens taking Eich to task on this thread voted for Barack Obama.

So being opposed to gay marriage disqualifies you from being the CEO of a tech company, but not from being President of the United States.

That's a...convenient...position. Just not a rational one.

Personally, I don't think the government (and certainly not the Federal government) has any business being involved with marriage in the first place, other than providing a registry for the contracts and a court system to enforce them.

bluetshirt• 12 years ago

I don't remember when Barack Obama donated money to suppress gay rights.

charlieh4• 12 years ago

State Senators, U.S. Senators, and sitting Presidents don't have to "donate money" to suppress rights. They have more direct mechanisms.

Nice attempt to shift the goal posts, though.

TazeTSchnitzel6• 12 years ago

Voting for Obama doesn't mean you agree with his (former) stance against same-sex marriages.

Donating to Proposition 8? That does.

Eleutheria• 12 years ago

Hey Brendan, I have a wish.

I want to have an eleutheria@firefox.com account from where I can access the Firefox Cloud with email, docs, pics, chat, apps, games, etc.

That's all I ask for.

booop• 12 years ago

Congrats to Eich!

And, has everyone here gone insane? Personally I hold Eugenic racist homophobic neo-nazis to a higher regard than those who view forgiveness and moving on as something that should never be done.

hashbanged2• 12 years ago

1) Who said anything is unforgivable? This is a straw-man and a false dichotomy. 2) People usually expect some kind of apology and atonement before forgiveness. Quick google search didn't find anything, got a link? 3) Way to call people calmly being upset about someone donating to prop 8 on the internet basically worse than racist, homophobic, neo-nazis.

potch• 12 years ago

I work for Mozilla. I support Brendan as our CEO. I strongly, vehemently oppose his views on gay marriage. I personally won't tolerate any CEO-level chicanery on our internal and external policies of tolerance, though I do not expect any. I am not alone in this feeling amongst the staff. I think his leadership is good for the organization and its goals. This cognitive dissonance will likely make me even more diligent in ensuring Mozilla is an equitable place to work.

yeukhon• 12 years ago

I am actually quite surprised he took the position.

I wonder if Jay is actually leaving Mozilla since Li Gong is now the COO.

That being said, I think Brendan is now put on a major test.

If instead Brendan doesn't believe in abortion, would we still have this conversation? The split among pro-live and pro-choice is just as bad as pro-gay and non-gay. And among pro-choice there is a split on what constitutes a good reason to abort and what is not.

A good CEO should ensure the company is sustainable and well. One way is to accept and respect differences. If Mozilla employees think gay workers should receive X benefit that non-gay workers already been receiving and they petition Mozilla and Brendan to take action, Brendan and his team will have to work toward that goal. That's their job (well mostly COO I guess). Otherwise employees will lose faith in the organization and talent will be lost.

If he truly values Mozilla and his hard work at Mozilla, he will not hesitate to make Mozilla more friendly and more open and transparent. But he doesn't have to change his belief to be a CEO. He, in his personal space, at his house, he can do whatever he wants and say whatever he wants.

I don't work for Mozilla and I don't ask around to find out who is gay and who is not. I don't know whether gay workers feel welcome at Mozilla or not. Just saying.

zobzu• 12 years ago

Yeah, I dont think his positions on non-technical matters really matter that much in this case. It doesn't mean hes going a good or bad CEO because of his beliefs in a totally different subject.

As long as one doesn't affect the other, everyone is entitled to his opinion. That's why we vote on stuff...

atotic• 12 years ago

I've read this comment thread a few days ago, and was disappointed that the discussion has focused on Brendan's contribution to prop 8. Just want to get this off my chest:

I've known Brendan, I've code-reviewed some super scary changes he was checking in. I've watched him do cartwheels.

He is a very smart guy, one of the few I've met who is clearly superior to me (Hi Guha!). He is also part of a tribe foreign to me, deeply religious computer geeks.

I believe (have no 1st hand knowledge), that Brendan contributed to prop 8 as part of a church drive. His contribution has offended many, but it not part of his core beliefs.

I also believe that he gets Internet's potential more than just about anyone. My passion is open Web, and Brendan leading Mozilla is great news. He knows what really matters, he is passionate, and he will fight for it.

Brendan Eich becomes Mozilla CEO

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