Show HN: In a single HTML file, an app to encourage my children to invest

https://roberdam.com/en/dinversiones.html

by roberdam • 9 months ago

247 436 9 months ago

cbeach• 9 months ago

Showing siblings' investment performance side-by-side on a fridge-mounted screen.

Author understands child psychology.

You can't motivate kids by filling their heads with theory. Instead, make the outcomes of their actions visible to them - then they -motivate themselves- to learn how to improve those outcomes. Add in some friendly peer-competition and you're golden!

roberdam25• 9 months ago

That was the idea! I hope it works out that way.

sebastiennight15• 9 months ago

Can they pull money out? I don't see any place to update the balance up or down as the kids want to add money into the piggy bank or withdraw it.

pprotas• 9 months ago

I feel like this is a great way to raise a crypto "line-must-go-up" addict

nxor14• 9 months ago

That's not just crypto :)

cluckindan• 9 months ago

Wait until they want to divest their portfolio and start hyping meme stocks and shitcoins because number go up faster.

Then orchestrate an artificial bubble and crash

ascendantlogic2• 9 months ago

What's the point of this comment? To discourage investing? Reddit-style shitposting? Not sure what you're going for here.

brazukadev3• 9 months ago

What is the point of your comment, actually? At least GP is talking about children psychology and is totally on topic. Wanting a faster profit then getting scammed or lose money in a crash market is also part of the learning.

dbbr• 9 months ago

It's for the lolz. I laughed and upvoted, just imagining my kids someday lecturing me on crypto. Then I thought about creating a bubble for them and then saying to their faces "Annnnnd it's gone."

barbazoo• 9 months ago

That comment is spot on and in my opinion completely in the spirit of the post. It is all about number go up and competition.

wiseowise2• 9 months ago

Investing is not a safe piggy bank where you add coin and see green numbers go up.

internet_points2• 9 months ago

is 15% realistic?

loloquwowndueo2• 9 months ago

Not in real-life terms, but for a kid, a larger interest rate will be less slow and boring than a realistic one, and it will be more engaging.

“The first national bank of dad” is a book that suggests a similar approach and I believe it also advocates a 15% interest rate.

Esophagus43• 9 months ago

I remember watching the statements for my savings account as a kid and getting like 2¢ of interest per statement and thinking… that’s it?? Why bother??

xnx• 9 months ago

No. Since the late 1920s, US stocks have yielded an average real annual return of about 7%.

Sammi• 9 months ago

Source: "Since 1957, the S&P 500 has delivered an average annual return of 10.54%, but when adjusted for inflation, the real return drops to 6.68%."

https://www.investopedia.com/ask/answers/042415/what-average...

And on top of that there's huuuuuuuuge variance over time. You have to scale in and out of the market over a very long time to actually get the ~7%. Any one time investment is just a straight up gamble. It's only in aggregate over a long time that you get something somewhat reliable. But then the numbers aren't that impressive. I understand why people are so fond of buying bigger or second houses instead. It's a shame because it drives up the price of housing making it less available for our young. We're basically saving for our future by robbing the future of our young. It's pretty dark to be honest.

normie3000• 9 months ago

Yes, in Brasil and South Sudan: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_central_b...

dlisboa• 9 months ago

Those two aren't similar. Brazil's annual inflation is 4-5%, you get 10% real return. South Sudan is 74% against your 15% return: you lose money.

elAhmo• 9 months ago

So, not really.

roberdam25• 9 months ago

11% is a safe interest rate on my country (py), I just got a 14.5% offer for local bonds BBB+

philipwhiuk2• 9 months ago

It's less surprising Paraguay has 14.5% interest rates when you realise there's persistent 4% inflation (spiking to 11% in 2022).

Effective interest rate is something like 7-10%

singpolyma3• 9 months ago

/me looks at market gains for 2025

thelastgallon2• 9 months ago

87% in Argentina.

latexr4• 9 months ago

This is frankly depressing.

As my eldest son’s birthday was approaching, we suggested that instead of asking for physical gifts, he ask for their equivalent in money. That way, he gathered a decent amount of capital for his first investment adventure.

Yes, why would you want a toy or a book? Why waste time having fun or learning? You could instead watch a number go up slowly while you do nothing. Fun for the whole family, seconds at a time!

Each day, as they watch their small fund grow, they grasp the magic of compound interest — and that, more than any gift, is a lesson I hope will stay with them for life.

This feels like raising finance dude bros and gambling addicts. There is no “magic” to compound interest, no one should have “watch money accumulate” as a life goal.

ascendantlogic2• 9 months ago

How is teaching your kids to invest some portion of their money "raising finance due bros and gambling addicts"? Just because modern culture has incentivized these kinds of people doesn't suddenly make investing bad. This is such a wild take.

latexr4• 9 months ago

How is teaching your kids to invest some portion of their money

That’s not what the article says. I explicitly quoted the relevant part. It’s not “a portion of their money”, this is not money they had lying around in an envelope that grandma gave them. This father is incentivising the kids to not get what they want for their birthday and instead ask for money with which they’ll do nothing but unrealistically watch grow for a period of time. That’s not a good core memory, no one looks fondly on “that birthday I had as a kid where I got nothing but a number on an app stated growing at a snail pace”.

doesn't suddenly make investing bad.

That’s not the argument. Nowhere in my comment does it say investing is bad.

This is such a wild take.

Any take is wild when you blatantly misrepresent it. Don’t straw man.

nxor14• 9 months ago

Investing isn't bad? Sure we all do it but how isn't it bad?

rusty__• 9 months ago

agreed - he doesn't say the age of the kids but I imagine they're both under 10? Done right this could set them up for life and make them millionaires with virtually no effort by the age of 30 and still give them a childhood filled with toys and fun. But removing birthday gifts entirely from a young child... woah. Kids need physical items and tangible hobbies to share and bond with friends, even if it's just a cool looking stick. Is a child's brain developed enough to understand, enjoy and share a lot of these concepts, could it maybe lead to them becoming isolated?

floundy2• 9 months ago

Done right this could set them up for life and make them millionaires with virtually no effort by the age of 30

This seems hyperbolic. Given that money doubles in roughly 10 years at a 10% rate of return, if kiddos are 10 years old they get two doublings by 30. To be a millionaire by 30 requires a present value investment of $250k per child.

roberdam25• 9 months ago

Kids are 7 and 10 , this is a mini "Marshmallow Test" and they can use their money whenever they want if they find a book or toy they like while they learn how investments work.

nxor14• 9 months ago

Or they could work for money when they are old enough to

mpalmer• 9 months ago

Why waste time having fun or learning?

yeah definitely no learning happening here

You could instead watch a number go up slowly while you do nothing.

and then...spend it on something nice?

This feels like raising finance dude bros and gambling addicts.

This is a super reactive take speaking from no experience whatsoever. My own parents did something like this for us when we were in elementary/middle school and it taught me restraint in spending, not the opposite.

latexr4• 9 months ago

This is a super reactive take speaking from no experience whatsoever.

You have no idea what my experience is, please don’t assume.

My own parents did something like this for us when we were in elementary/middle school and it taught me restraint in spending, not the opposite.

I’m glad it worked out for you. Truly. But don’t assume your experience is universal, because I unfortunately know for a fact it’s not. Also, the argument isn’t that it causes unrestrained spending, that’s not what financial dude bros are about. Excessive restraint in spending can also lead to unhappiness and an unhealthy attachment to money.

pickleglitch• 9 months ago

He's teaching them the most important lesson of living in a capitalist system: wealth comes from having money, not from earning money.

SirMaster• 9 months ago

It's better to invest in assets though than just the stock market. The wealthy build wealth by borrowing and buying assets like real estate. This ways makes it easier to avoid income taxes and capital gains taxes and you also get massive tax deductions for asset deprecation that you can use to offset most or all of what income it does provide.

exitb2• 9 months ago

If he's not able to also provide them with a sizeable initial capital, this lesson is also completely irrelevant. No one becomes really wealthy by investing savings off their modest salary.

kaggie2• 9 months ago

Okay thank goodness I’m not the only one who finds this incredibly sad. Especially as someone who is trying to make money less important in my life.

nxor14• 9 months ago

In what way are you doing that? Not that I disagree just curious how

nxor14• 9 months ago

Kids used to be encouraged to work hard and to learn. Every day I realize that some kids are not raised with this idea. Why work hard when others can, and you'll get even richer? Learning schmearning

al_borland• 9 months ago

Am I missing something? When they went to add money, do you go back in and increase the initial investment?

Are they actually investing anything? If so, wouldn’t the app for the brokerage do this with real numbers?

roberdam25• 9 months ago

They invest with “The first national bank of dad” as user loloquwowndueo pointed out, I'm their broker, no penalties when they want to make a withdrawal

ramses0• 9 months ago

I think what he's saying is: Given a balance of $50, they "earn" $5/mo. Given a balance of $200, they "earn" $10/mo (or $199*0.10 + $1*0.05). If they don't spend it, I'm assuming it's "rollover", and if they eat into their capital (eg: buy an xbox) then they feel the sting of earning less-per-month.

mtrimpe• 9 months ago

[redacted]

brazukadev3• 9 months ago

That's quite interesting. When do they start to understand that saving is better, if they do? I can imagine kids never wanting to save for later, but also I remember that I enjoyed saving more than spending coins when I was a kid.

thelastgallon2• 9 months ago

Brilliant idea!

Do you deduct short term and long term capital gains taxes?

freitzzz2• 9 months ago

Hi, sorry to be that guys, I just wanted to make some corrections on what you call your app a "plain html file". Your HTML file loads:

- react app - pwa manifest - tailwind css

This is not at all a "plain html" file.

brazukadev3• 9 months ago

is plain html different from single HTML? Because it is a single HTML that you can "Save as" and have one html with the working app.

freitzzz2• 9 months ago

In my opinion this can't even be labeled as a single HTML file, because it loads external files to complete the app. But back to the question, a "plain html" file doesn't load any external resources and is usually semantically described.

croes• 9 months ago

If you can run the app without any other files and without internet then it’s plain and a single file.

bossyTeacher• 9 months ago

When people talk about a single plain HTML file, it implies that all markup and code is contained in the file and no libraries are being used

vultour• 9 months ago

I have a "plain Python file" that only imports TensorFlow.

Ekaros2• 9 months ago

Plain html is just html, no JS or CSS. This is my purist non-web dev take.

taude2• 9 months ago

You are that guy. It was obvious that he built some interactive app packaged in a single html file. There's going to be javascript and stuff in there...doah.

EDIT: I wouldn't have expected external dependencies, though.

mrweasel• 9 months ago

One small html file, and half a megabyte of CSS and Javascript framework... oh and the html file contains 800 lines of additional Javascript.

dangus3• 9 months ago

I bet $10 that it’s vibecoded, and it’s such a dirt simple calculator that perhaps it was even done with a single prompt.

The AI just picked react because that’s the most common framework.

mavamaarten• 9 months ago

That's the first thing I thought when opening it. Sure looks like a "make me an app" response that Claude would output.

I mean nothing wrong with that, I needed a silly calculator thingimabob too yesterday (for some CRC checks on a piece of text) and Claude quickly cooked something up for me.

But I'm not writing blog posts about it, releasing the tool in the wild, and claiming I wrote it. Blegh.

linhns2• 9 months ago

No way you get this with plain HTML, post title is deceptive to the core.

b_e_n_t_o_n2• 9 months ago

Why apologize and do it instead of not do it and no apologize?

bigyabai• 9 months ago

Pedantry earns upvotes like bread beggars butter. I don't blame them.

_ache_• 9 months ago

How can you have a localhost reference as canonical? You should fix your jekyll configuration I guess.

roberdam25• 9 months ago

Thanks for the tip, should be fixed now !

LandR• 9 months ago

Will they also have periods of a bear market and see their money go down ?

roberdam25• 9 months ago

hopefully, “The first national bank of dad” remains solvent.

patapong• 9 months ago

And can they take loans with negotiated interest rates and lock-in periods? Or invest in more risky products such as derivatives with a corresponding chance to lose all money? So much potential... ;)

Galanwe3• 9 months ago

I act as their investment agent, assigning realistic interest rates

Author then proceeds to put 15% annual interest rate...

roberdam25• 9 months ago

11% is a safe interest rate on my country (py), I just got a 14.5% offer for local bonds BBB+

mlok• 9 months ago

py = Paraguay, for those like me who didn't know

Galanwe3• 9 months ago

11% is a safe interest rate on my country

11% may be the safest bond you have access to, but that doesn't make it _safe_ in absolute terms.

wara23arish• 9 months ago

stay vigilant Lebanon was granting 12% rates and everything was fine and “covered” by central bank until it wasnt

Jommi• 9 months ago

the issue is your local currency will lose its value over time

neucoas• 9 months ago

Commenter just discovered that there are other countries and economic realities outside the US/Europe

neilv• 9 months ago

Where can I get 15% annualized returns, please?

(I'm told to no longer bet on even averaging 7% annually, over decades, on US stock indexes.)

a968• 9 months ago

15% yield would be a hell of an arbitrage opportunity if you could get a sensible loan to go along with that.

Jeremy1026• 9 months ago

Found a fun little bug. If you try to type into the date picker, and press backspace, the entire screen blanks out. (MacOS 15.0.1, Safari 18.0.1)

roberdam25• 9 months ago

thanks for the bug report!

yaky3• 9 months ago

Be careful with comparing real-life things and experiences with a (virtual) number on a screen, especially for children.

I used to know an adult who only cared about that number going up, despite making more than a comfortable amount of money. Live with parents, save on rent/mortgage, number goes up faster. Buy cheapest food, take leftovers from work-catered lunches, number goes up faster. Scam your way into being hired for a position you are severely underqualified for, get terminated after three months, keep the salary and sign-on bonus, number goes up. Invest pretty much everything (because there are almost no expenses), compound interest.

nxor14• 9 months ago

Ahah but green ticker good red ticker bad. What's the problem sir

ericyd4• 9 months ago

This feels like a severe anecdotal example which I'm not sure applies to most people.

yaky3• 9 months ago

It is definitely a single point, but that is who this post immediately made me think of.

And to be fair, investing does not apply to most people either.

ct0• 9 months ago

Agreed, in 7th grade we did a stock market simulation, it made winning feel too easy.

nxor14• 9 months ago

M dashes everywhere, bold text everywhere ... what's next, teaching them to over-rely on LLM's? And if we're teaching them about investing, can we also teach them about the ethics of investing? As in, employing a bunch of people to direct the profit of their work into the hands of investors?

whackernews• 9 months ago

For me, the ethics of investing is a bit more profound. I see stock market investment and share holding to be one of the main drivers of civilisations obsession with endless consumption and growth. To me those things are damaging to our minds and our planet. This is just doing the same retarded shit we’ve been doing since the end of the war. Personally I feel like we need to turn a corner now; ease-off this obsession with accumulating as much money as possible for ourselves and focus on our communities, our families, living in balance with nature, and securing a healthy future together with new values and goals that last. Investing into the stock market is like the opposite of this. Just my opinion.

yed2• 9 months ago

One thing that school doesn’t teach you (not even high school) is how to manage your personal finances.

Can we stop with this myth? Most states require financial literacy courses to graduate. The reason it feels like it isn't happening is because it's boring and most just don't pay attention or absorb the lessons.

gricha2380• 9 months ago

Your point is true in the USA, but the author appears to be from Paraguay.

alias_neo2• 9 months ago

Most states require financial literacy courses to graduate

What's a state? Pretty sure we don't have those here.

Even if it was true for America (probably not), it certainly isn't true for the entire rest of the world.

Maybe they should be teaching Geography.

yed2• 9 months ago

My mistake, it's just such a common trope in the US I didn't realize it was a universal complaint. It is true for US incidentally, people generally don't remember it because a) the learning and real world practice are too far removed b) people often are poor with finances regardless of knowledge.

tianreyma• 9 months ago

Most states require financial literacy courses to graduate.

Prior to 2020 only 8 states required a standalone financial literacy class. So a good percentage of people from the US on here probably didn't have to.

There were also states that had it integrated with another course but I'd question if they were any good. My state was like that and all we did was a 2 week project where we pretended to trade stocks starting with $1k. Which didn't even include things like dividends, short vs long term capital gains tax, etc...

We weren't taught basic things like budgeting, planning for emergencies, how loans and interest work, how taxes work, how credit scores work and affect you, etc...

johntiror• 9 months ago

There’s an old story about Rothschild getting a haircut when the barber started giving him stock tips. Rothschild thanked him, left the shop, and immediately sold all his holdings. The reason was: “When even the barber is investing, the market’s gone too far.”

I might be wrong, but reading this, I couldn’t help but think: if we’ve reached the point where we’re building apps to get our kids into investing, maybe we’re living through our own “barber moment.”

vslira• 9 months ago

The reasonable interpretation of such a project is not to pump the stock market even higher by getting children to invest their savings into it, but to inculcate the habits of investing over time so they can do it properly as adults.

I'm sure Mr. Rothschild would be fine with this learning tool.

tinfoilhatter8• 9 months ago

The Rothschild bloodline is responsible for helping to orchestrate every modern war since the Napoleonic Wars, by loaning money to both sides of the conflict. Major General Smedley D. Butler wrote about this in War is a Racket. I personally, don't give a damn what Mr. Rothschild would be fine with, or the rest of his disgusting family.

random97498322• 9 months ago

Narrative: You are teaching about the intricacies of finance and the stock market.

Reality: Dump everything into Nvidia / S&P 500. Number go up.

taude2• 9 months ago

The market's are different now. Everyone's 401K plans are automatically investing in them each month (my theory on why equities are so expensive now).

david927• 9 months ago

Different as in much worse? It's not that you're wrong but, just to be clear, the problem with investing as the only place to keep up with inflation means that markets will detach from value, and become a giant Ponzi scheme.

There is no such thing as "growth detached from value" lasting forever.

projektfu• 9 months ago

It's certainly apocryphal and you have the British version, probably. In the US it is usually Joe Kennedy and a shoeshine boy, and also didn't likely happen. These stories are useful parables, and they serve the purpose of explaining why the smart money didn't get cleaned out when the rubes did.

Still, if a 10 year old had started investing 10% in the market in 1920 and stuck through it during the depression, even with no income coming in at the time, they would have done handsomely through the recovery and into old age. In fact, a middle aged person who had been investing until 1929 would have not been fully cleaned out, and that money would have recovered its value by 1943. Margin was what killed fortunes in the day, so the lesson to learn is to avoid margin for your investment portfolio. (Speculation is a different story).

sd8f9iu• 9 months ago

I think the assumption here is the investment vehicle will be large bundles of diverse stocks, e.g. via a mutual fund or equivalent ETF. That's the standard way to invest 401Ks and other savings, and something for which stock tips are no use.

random97498322• 9 months ago

Greed is at a 21st century high. I am just waiting for the rugpull moment when billionaires decide the show is over (https://seekingalpha.com/news/4464647-deeper-dive-the-wealth...).

Even George Hotz understands this is the symptom of a larger issue and it is going to end bad: https://geohot.github.io/blog/jekyll/update/2025/10/24/gambl...

koakuma-chan19• 9 months ago

What is going to happen specifically when billionaires decide the show is over?

kccqzy2• 9 months ago

In December 2017 I literally saw shopkeepers and barbers checking Coinbase every few minutes when they weren't with customers. I sold a substantial portion shortly afterwards. Of course I'd be much richer today if I hadn't done that. But I don't really regret it because it's not real investing; it's speculation.

Maxamillion96• 9 months ago

the story is about Joe Kennedy and his shoeshine boy

renewiltord• 9 months ago

Sure, I did that in 2018 as I was leaving London. Cabbie was talking about the coins he was buying and this and that. Bitcoin was $10k/coin at the time. I sold my bitcoin as soon as I reached Heathrow. This was a very wise move because I followed the story.

dangus3• 9 months ago

Being encouraged to invest is nice but having the ability to is a massive luxury.

I knew I wanted to save a lot for my future and retirement since I was in high school. I didn’t gain any reasonable ability to do so until much later.

A much better life skill in my opinion would be to teach about budgeting, how to cook economical meals, how to avoid debt traps and lifestyle inflation.

ericyd4• 9 months ago

I'm always bummed when I comment on HN and then scroll down and find another comment which said it better.

yaky3• 9 months ago

HN is a very specific and privileged demographic, very far from an average citizen. (of the US at least)

encrypted_bird2• 9 months ago

Not the OC, but yeah I've noticed this myself actually. I read HN because I love science and technology, but I don't work in either area. I work at a dead-end job as a cashier and barely make ends meet. Some of the people on here are exceedingly privileged and really don't realize it.

ericyd4• 9 months ago

Financial literacy is a gift, and absolutely omitted from standard education, which is unfortunate.

That said, I don't think knowledge of investment gets you very far if your job pays subsistence wages. I worked for a popular fintech focused on personal investment and their narrative was essentially "financial freedom through investment". I think it's important to understand that even the most sophisticated knowledge of investment and personal finance does nothing substantial if you aren't making surplus money to begin with.

nxor14• 9 months ago

Sure but if you learn a lot about investing then surely you have learned a lot about other stuff too and maybe have chances at a good job. Not that I disagree

bilekas2• 9 months ago

Financial literacy is a gift, and absolutely omitted from standard education, which is unfortunate.

With my tinfoil hat on, I feel like that is by design.

tinfoilhatter8• 9 months ago

I don't think you even need to wear a tinfoil hat to reach this conclusion. Knowing about the origins of the modern outcome-based education systems in the West (we borrowed from the Prussian education system which replaced the classical education system based on the Trivium and Quadrivium) I would assert that your claim is spot on.

nxor14• 9 months ago

How couldn't it be? If the finance industry made things clearer then more people would benefit from it.

alxmdev• 9 months ago

Probably, because everything would collapse if everyone was an "investor" and fewer people did actual work to keep the world going.

triceratops13• 9 months ago

I don't know what you mean by that. They teach compound interest in every school. Basic economics too. Anything more advanced is going to be lost on most kids, because that's most adults' level of financial literacy too.

The problem is many kids don't have much money to save or invest. Or if they do, real banks kinda suck when you only have a kid amount of money ("Here's the 0.2% interest on your $37 balance"). So they can't apply what they learned. An app like this, backed by the Bank of Mom and Dad, is great for practice.

danielbarla• 9 months ago

While I certainly had the _concept_ of compound interest taught to me at some abstract mathematical level, the application to real life practical financial scenarios was definitely not done [1]. Economics as a whole was an optional subject.

I think schools and curriculums could do a whole lot better in representing this important facet of life. More broadly, I often feel that "applying all that math you've learned to real things" is a subject that could be taught.

[1] Seriously, having applied math questions like "Johnny earns X per year, with a cost of living of Y. Assuming inflation of Z and average yearly returns of R, what percentage should he be putting away, starting at age 25, so that at age 50 he essentially gets the equivalent of his own salary each month?" would likely cause some lightbulbs to go off in the kids' heads.

seemaze• 9 months ago

that's most adults' level of financial literacy too.

The vicious cycle! We have to start somewhere..

recursive2• 9 months ago

Where do you send your money to invest? What is a stock? This is the type of information missing.

bluGill13• 9 months ago

I give my kids a copy of their 529 accounts I opened and contribute to in their name. This is real money and they can see a return on investment and growth happening.

ericyd4• 9 months ago

My statement was intentionally under specified, and as usual my word choice was not great. My primary intention with the comment was to indicate that knowledge of investment alone is not very useful without surplus money. There is a narrative that investment alone can alleviate poverty or provide financial independence. I don't believe that's true and that was my main point.

spectrum1234• 9 months ago

Economics was optional in high school. It was also extremely basic. It was quite basic in college and also never covered this.

skeeter20203• 9 months ago

investment for many is more important than ever, because with home ownership out of reach younger people those with any savings are looking for alternatives. I just hope that - much like how you wouldn't buy and sell your house every day - they can resist the urge to be overly active investors.

ho_schi2• 9 months ago

At the point with investment I was lost. Children should learn to be patient (saving money) and prepare for bad situations (saving money). That’s enough.

When older we can teach them what capitalism considers as investment. Capitalism is a longer word for greed. Money doesn’t work. Employees do. Customers pay. Both suffer to make greedy persons rich.

Give them a piggy bank. Teaches the concept of preparation.

nxor14• 9 months ago

I mostly agree but greed is a part of human nature is it not?

Jaxan• 9 months ago

People keep repeating this. But why is it people’s nature. Maybe it is learned, because everyone keeps repeating this phrase!

ho_schi2• 9 months ago

Capitalism itself is a rather modern idea around 1800. And greed is maybe rooted in human nature, within the need to keep a buffer of food.

But we’ve brains and are social entities. I don’t think greed is necessity. But greed of other harm our needs. And we need to get greedy to get enough?

Examples: I want a nice bicycle. I need small house or nice flat. I enjoy good food from time to. I’m rather sure I don’t need a super-yacht, no swimming pool and no villa. I think stuff which I cannot keep myself clean is too much. If I cannot keep it clean myself it was greed?

But we’ve big dreams?

For the big dreams I would probably consider a cooperative society. These airliners are so expensive and suffer from not being used. Sharing them would be nice? Like…like owning airline stocks. Without the enforcement to gain money. Maybe some people enjoy flying it around, other maintaining it and others care about safety and passengers. Others maybe want fly to the moon. And others enjoy ships. Maybe sharing them deliberately makes sense?

array_key_first5• 9 months ago

I don't know, is it? It seems natural - after all, animals are selfish and will put themselves first to survive.

... but then again, animals also rape and murder each other. Is rape a part of human nature? I don't know, but I know we don't want it.

kccqzy2• 9 months ago

You say "when older we can teach them what capitalism considers as investment" but you never specify the age. What exactly counts as older? My mom started telling me about how the new home we just moved into was both a place to live and also an investment at age 8. My dad started telling me about his brokerage account when I was 7. My dad also explained to me why the new car we just bought was not an investment when I was 6.

That's to say, I strongly disagree. It's almost never too early to teach this to children. As soon as children know money could be spent on exchange for things, they should begin to think about how money is made.

kmijyiyxfbklao• 9 months ago

Even saving can be seen as greed. Someone can focus too much on accumulating for themselves. Both investing and saving can be seen as preparation.

To avoid things becoming evil, you just need to make sure that your interactions with other are cooperative and not zero sum, and not all investments are zero sum.

triceratops13• 9 months ago

Money doesn’t work. Employees do. Customers pay. Both suffer to make greedy persons rich.

I don't want to work until I'm dead. If that makes me greedy, so be it.

didip• 9 months ago

Good. Financial education is sorely needed for everyone in America.

Now if only there’s an app that can teach delayed gratification.

linsomniac7• 9 months ago

There's an awful lot of negativity here, but as someone who's 55 and has earned a good wage since I was 17, I really wish I had taken investing more seriously from the very beginning. While I knew of compound interest, I really didn't understand it until like a decade ago. If I'd started putting 5% of my money into a target retirement plan from 17, I'd be retired now. As it is I'm not doing badly, but I really wish I'd started earlier.

So I say: Good on you.

Somewhat related: I just got my son set up with a custodial account and put his "kid retirement" plan into it, and let him pick a couple stocks to put some money into, and put the majority of it into target retirement and a few stocks and EFTs, so he can get some ideas of how they perform, make it a little fun with picking things he's into, and also follow ups and downs of the market, all of which I think is good education.

nxor14• 9 months ago

Retirement is not mentioned in the post

_vqpz3• 9 months ago

It is one of the most common reasons people invest though so it's entirely relevant

sureglymop2• 9 months ago

You say that now but as a young person with a decent income and no family or many responsibilities it's hard to even know where to start.

And I'm not even talking about what to invest in, I'm already confused at which platform/bank/whatever to do it through. The "meta", if you will. I just want to invest the 70% of my salary I don't need every month and not think about it for 40 years but how? Maybe an important detail, I'm from Switzerland, perhaps it's easier in the US with things like Vanguard.

whoooboyy7• 9 months ago

Read "The Four Pillars of Investing". Basically index funds, diverse whole markets, leave it alone and watch it grow.

I did this at 22, and that seed money has grown a ton.

koakuma-chan19• 9 months ago

Your bank probably has an investment platform, you can just use it, it doesn't matter. My portfolio is 70% XEQT 30% CASH.TO—don't bother with anything else.

coldpie2• 9 months ago

Don't know about Switzerland, but most US brokers offer some kind of "target retirement date" fund, which automatically shifts from higher-risk assets to lower-risk as you approach retirement. VFIFX is one from Vanguard, for example. Pick one you like (just ask a coworker what they use, if you pick a big-name brokerage it really doesn't matter which one), shove your extra cash into it regularly, and forget about it. Then cross your fingers the market isn't actively crashing when you plan to retire (this is unlikely, but it does happen a couple times per century).

If you start to get into truly high wealth amounts (USD$500K+) you might consider hiring a wealth advisor, who can probably do better even after accounting for their fees.

onli3• 9 months ago

For the plattforms, that also blocked me for a while. But it is easy now. You just get one account at a platform that offers a free broker account and supports buying the etf you want without extra fees.

Typical options in Europe: Trade Republic, scalable, Consors Bank.

Then the usual: Around 10K where you can access it directly, a small amount in an investment with percentage (scalable and trade republic both offer that, limit there is or was 50k), rest in one broad ETF like one that follows the FTSE all world (vanguard or invesco offer that, one is bigger, the other asks for less fees).

No affiliation, and I dont know whether being outside of the EU changes things. And yes, there is the risk that we are in a huge bubble now and it popping would at first significantly lower the money put into the etf. But you certainly do have access to vanguard etc.

Have a look now and at the latest this weekend you have this solved, hopefully forever.

singiamtel• 9 months ago

I'm also in Switzerland, currently my approach is to invest in Vanguard VOO (tracks the S&P500) via Interactive Brokers. There is a way to setup auto transfer and invest every month

As a caveat your money will be in dollars and in American companies, which might not be what you want, but it's worked for me well so far

mchr3k• 9 months ago

All the choices you have to make can be very daunting. I was very lucky to have a colleague at work who gave a talk at the right time in my life with some plausibly right choices.

In the UK I started out using https://www.charles-stanley-direct.co.uk/ and later moved to https://www.ii.co.uk/. I initially invested in https://www.vanguardinvestor.co.uk/investments/vanguard-life... which is a fund which is available on a bunch of platforms. These days I recommend https://www.vanguardinvestor.co.uk/ to some people as an easy and low fee way of getting started with Vanguard funds in the UK.

I don't know what the best trading platform options are in Switzerland - it looks like all of the ones I'm familiar with are not relevant to you.

The key thing is you want to minimise two types of fees: * Platform fees * Product fees

For example Charles Stanley Direct charge 0.3% platform fees, and https://www.vanguardinvestor.co.uk/ charges 0.15% platform fees.

Vanguard LifeStrategy® 100% Equity Fund charges 0.22%.

The bottom line is that there are lots of good choices, and the main thing is to make a choice and get started. You can always optimise/improve your choices later.

Brendinooo5• 9 months ago

My understanding is that, if the market generally continues on the rate of return it's averaged throughout its history (that is, if you're not a doomer), then the single most important thing is showing up to play.

People who try to time the market or wait for a perfect time or pick the exact right blend of stocks, on average, don't do as well as people who pick a boring index or mutual fund and forget about it for 40 years.

buenzlikoder• 9 months ago

Are you saving for retirement or buying property? Then start filling your 3rd pillar (Säule 3a) first because of the tax cut. Ideally in a low cost provider (viac/finpension), but the bank you already have probably has an offer too. It might be a bit more expensive than viac, but still much better than not investing. Stay away from 3rd pillar at insurance companies, they might be hard to cancel. Do yourself a favor and do this just for the tax cut.

If you max out the 3a, you can start of thinking investing elsewhere. IBKR is the cheapest to buy a US domiciled world ETF. But the UX is not super easy and you will have to fill all transactions manually in the tax report.

Neon with investments is another option I can recommend if you prefer a swiss company and a simple user interface. Fees are low if you set up a savings plan and pick one of the 0% ETFs

sebastiennight15• 9 months ago

- Your bank's platform will cost an arm and a leg; Interactive Brokers or Degiro are both available in Switzerland and you will save so much on fees (especially if you only buy and hold ETFs of which Degiro offers many with 0% fees) that it's the equivalent of faster returns on your money.

- There are many "getting started" guides available, I found Mister Money Mustache the most straightforward to my liking, but you're golden as long as you understand a couple of basics: 1. investing a high% of your income is more important than chasing returns (you seem to be there already), 2. don't trade, just buy the whole market (you mentioned Vanguard, they offer a "total market" ETF), 3. look for the lowest fees as long as you hold title to your shares (IB and Degiro do this ; eToro does not so if they sink, you're SOL), 4. don't time the market, just buy now and sit on it as it grows

ashleyn2• 9 months ago

Sometimes I feel like I started investing late at 26. Already, six years into the best decade for compounding in your life. But such was the power of compounding that I had reached a substantial net worth by age 35. So even just nine years can make such a tremendous difference even into later ages. It's never too late to sock money away.

ffsm8• 9 months ago

It remains to be seen what's going to happen over the next few decades. It's entirely possible that it'll all get wiped out (the substantial gains, not all value).

While the market was a very good bet for the last 50yrs, its not a guarantee.

Especially in the current climate you should be fully aware that it's significantly more risky to start investing today vs 10 yrs ago.

(Riskier doesn't mean it's necessarily a bad idea. It should just be a conscious decision under the acknowledgement that the upward trajectory is not certain. Especially in current political climate - and that "hodl"-ing doesn't necessarily mean you'll eventually get back what you invested, if a downturn manifests)

gadders• 9 months ago

Saving is follows the same advice as for planting a tree.

The best time to plant a tree is ten years ago.

The second best time is now.

nonethewiser5• 9 months ago

Historically, it takes about 7-10 years to double your money in the stock market. So between doubling your money and incremental saving, yeah you should see a pretty significant difference from 26-35. And that's before it skyrockets :)

sitestable• 9 months ago

I didn't start til 35 so don't feel too bad.

elictronic• 9 months ago

I started my daughter investing with a custodial account at 13. She put a few hundred dollars of her money in and I convinced her by matching her investment and told her if the amount ever went below the original investment I would backstop any loss.

Investing is all about that long term gain and slow growth. Having 10 years of experience after finishing college will do so much more than Robinhood for refrigerators.

linsomniac7• 9 months ago

I've made a similar deal with my kids: Around 7 years ago I set up a "kid retirement" plan for them, where they couldn't touch the money until they were 18, but any money they put in I would match, and I'd also give them 10% APY with monthly compounding. My daughter aged out of it a couple years ago, she got something in the $100 range. Her brother still has a 18 months left, and I just recently rolled his over into the custodial account, he's got over a grand in there currently.

My daughter I just recently set up a ROTH for her and told her I'd match anything she puts into it, and stressed she should put something into it now from her savings, and then put some of her paycheck into it, anything is better than nothing. So far she's declined the free money. I'm going to set one up for my son, once he's at the point of having an income to justify it. She's very smart, but in some ways she's very stupid.

kelvinjps102• 9 months ago

My dad made a deal with me that, of doubling what I would save during the week.

bluGill13• 9 months ago

Investing for retirement at 17 is a bad idea! At 17 you should still be thinking about investing in education - the right education investment today will pay back far more than any other monitory investment. There are of course bad education investments, and some are not willing to study even more (or not able to pass a good education course), in that case retirement might be the best investment you can make, but it should not be your first choice.

A different reply said they waited until 26 to start - that is probably about the right time to start saving for retirement. Maybe a little late, but close enough. Before about that age you are still getting started and so you have little spare cash. You need to pay off school loans (if you took any). You need to save for down payment on a house, and buy a lot of those will last a lifetime household items everyone needs. You should be thinking about marriage and saving for it (even if you don't get legally married most people will live with someone else and should be planning on how to make that life work).

Most important: you don't know how long you will live. Save for the future, but not everything - you have no guarantee you will live to tomorrow - if you are under 60 odds are strongly in favor of it, but people die young all the time. You should have a little play money as well in your budget. Go climb Mt Fuji while your body is young and healthy enough to do so (I picked a random activity here, you should decide what you care about, not rush to Japan)

skybrian• 9 months ago

It seems like learning about personal finance is itself educational, and there are a lot of jobs where you deal with money. So this isn't entirely separate from investing in education, depending on which kind of education you mean.

sebastiennight15• 9 months ago

As with many times when we use the word "should" (and you've used it a lot), the perspective you're sharing is deeply influenced by your own cultural background and might not apply to many people reading.

A few examples: school loans, considering a house purchase to be a sound investment, purchasing once-in-a-lifetime household items, saving for a wedding (from the age of 17!?) or marriage (not sure what you even mean by that if you don't mean the wedding itself?).

nonethewiser5• 9 months ago

Investing for retirement at 17 is a bad idea! At 17 you should still be thinking about investing in education

Why would you assume they are mutually exclusive? You can just do both.

graeme• 9 months ago

If you start investing a small amount at age 17 you can build the habit and increase totals later.

Saying "I'll do it later when it is rational" often translates to "I won't do it (for a long time)". Which is not rational

dottjt3• 9 months ago

I think it's actually a bad thing to think about money early on. Because it adds a layer of responsibility which I think takes away from simply enjoying life and focusing on what you might be truly passionate about.

One of the things I hate about my 30s is that I'm focused on money now and it feels like I'm not living the life that I want. It just feels like I'm preparing for death.

Which I'm not saying isn't the sensible thing to do, there's just something inherently managerial about it which doesn't seem intuitive to living a meaningful life.

joquarky3• 9 months ago

What educational path is safe to invest in right now?

What kind of job will be in high demand in a few years and will remain in demand for at least 20 years?

groby_b• 9 months ago

At 17 you should still be thinking about investing in education

I mean, sure, in a perfect world you can postpone retirement savings. But if we're doing perfect world, you shouldn't have to think about "investing in education", your government should have the basic cognitive skills that would let it recognize that they should invest in education - ROI is pretty spectacular.

Realistically, both, because... otherwise you just pick how screwed you'll be later in life.

roberdam25• 9 months ago

Thanks for your encouragement!. I started investing in my mid-30s, and compound interest really works wonders after a while. I hope my kids do better than me, though.

ivape• 9 months ago

Actively invested retirement funds throughout 30+ years can also catch more concentrated moves if you are educated on a sector. For example, choosing the mag7 in the early 2010s vs just the SPY. Following the market could also let you pull out during serious world events.

There is definitely money left on the table when you ignore the market, even in a retirement fund.

intrasight• 9 months ago

Same. But is same for most people. Average American retirement savings is like $200k. I've done better that that but not by orders of magnitude.

About six years ago I was hired to make an investment simulator. I wish someone had show the results to me when I was a teen. I did show it to my daughter at the time (she was in college), and used it to explain the power of compounding interest.

I found they still an old preview online (sorry not https)

http://simulators.gibsoncapital.com/new-preview-for-total-si...

nonethewiser5• 9 months ago

That's why you shouldn't leave it up to a kid with very little money who quite literally cannot understand the long term impacts of their decisions to invest or not. Instead, put aside something for them. You can even start well before they are 17.

linsomniac7• 9 months ago

Naw, dawg, Imma try and try to encourage them to get started early and put a little bit away, because it's good for them. I'm acutely afraid of a scenario where they have bad habits and anything I leave them they flush down the toilet because of those bad habits. I'm hoping to leave them plenty, but they need to be in a position to not waste that for it to be worth anything.

dingaling• 9 months ago

and let him pick a couple stocks to put some money into

And yet we complain that corps today are too focused on their market valuation over everything else; customer experience, longevity, worker conditions, R&D are all being neglected in order to make the needle go up.

'Investing' in stocks in order to flip them when the price goes up is feeding this insanity. Teaching kids that this is perfectly rational seems selfish and short-sighted.

Our children should be encouraged to invest into something like bonds which actually help promote economic growth.

kelvinjps102• 9 months ago

Bonds returns don't match inflation so long term you're loosing money to inflation, it might be better to spend it

triceratops13• 9 months ago

Investing in stocks and bonds both helps promote economic growth.

Corps have always been focused on their market valuation. It's up to society, and the laws it passes, to change their incentives.

sokoloff2• 9 months ago

Teaching children to invest in bonds is spectacularly bad asset allocation. Investing in stocks or bonds both help promote economic growth.

For me, the notion of teaching kids to invest in some company they know (Disney, McDonalds, Coke, Apple, or whatever) and telling them that they are buying a tiny, tiny share of the company is an important mental model to help shape in them.

a968• 9 months ago

Stock picking and speculation especially with a single company is indeed a spectacularly bad strategy, but it can be a motivating start.

A well diversified fund would be the better alternative if you need to aim at a single thing. But it's hard to say what's the better first step if you're trying to teach personal finance management.

toomuchtodo• 9 months ago

Please share https://www.bogleheads.org/wiki/Getting_started with your son.

roberdam25• 9 months ago

great resource, thanks for sharing!

abc3• 9 months ago

There's an awful lot of negativity here, but as someone who's 55 and has earned a good wage since I was 17, I really wish I had taken investing more seriously from the very beginning. While I knew of compound interest, I really didn't understand it until like a decade ago. If I'd started putting 5% of my money into a target retirement plan from 17, I'd be retired now. As it is I'm not doing badly, but I really wish I'd started earlier.

I'm 55, too. If I'd started studying HTML, CSS, JavaScript, Python, and Rust at 17, I'd be retired now. Waitaminnit....

Sarcasm aside, target retirement plans wouldn't come along for decades. Investing was very, very different when we were 17. And many of the people who were 55 when we were 17 had just lost a terrifying amount of their life's savings in a stock market crash that made Taleb rich because he'd bet against the market.

It seems extraordinarily unlikely that a 17-year-old today should do exactly what we wish we could have done when we were 17. About the best they can do is follow advice that's now centuries old: make friends, learn skills, live below their means, and, maybe, earn credentials.

dostick• 9 months ago

And be the richest man in the cemetery?

swalsh• 9 months ago

Where can I find this 15% annual interest rate?

triceratops13• 9 months ago

Become OP's kid.

roberdam25• 9 months ago

open to adoptions :P

roberdam25• 9 months ago

sample= 14.5% on local currency, https://www.bolsadevalores.com.py/nuevas-emisiones/investiga...

philipwhiuk2• 9 months ago

In a country with high inflation

meatjuice• 9 months ago

I can feel the vibe-coding "vibe" from every vibe-coded websites, somehow.

lm28469• 9 months ago

When 50% of the words are bold you know you're in for a treat

pton_xd2• 9 months ago

My decade in the making habit of only reading HN comments is finally paying off. Nowadays when I do randomly skim an article it's almost always slop.

beej71• 9 months ago

Happy to see a PWA. These things need to make a comeback for a variety of reasons.

alternatex• 9 months ago

Though for a PWA JavaScript is required so not a single HTML file.

Waterluvian3• 9 months ago

I had a very similar idea this summer. But my kids are 6 and 8, so I approached it using the video game approach. It's been an absolute smash hit and entirely altered the habits of doing chores in this home. It's been about 3 months and it's still going stronger than ever. The whole thing is a static page, driven by a Google Spreadsheet that Mom and I edit to adjust goals and track progress.

https://ibb.co/RTw5sCDJ https://ibb.co/ycRB8750 https://ibb.co/gLGQ0tKT

roberdam25• 9 months ago

great!, mobile app?

Waterluvian3• 9 months ago

It’s just a static hosted page they run on the family iPad. There’s no server at all!

I should really clean it up and make a blog post about it. But wanted to share it here because this project reminded me of it :)

koyote• 9 months ago

That is very cool! Do you have any details on how it was built or is the source code available?

Also, what happens if one of the daily missions is not completed? Is there a passive income from those?

Waterluvian3• 9 months ago

I wrote it in an evening so it’s disaster code. I might clean it up and make it public this holiday break.

The dailies are a minimum requirement if they want screen time.

I spent a lot of time reflecting on video game incentives and disincentives and was incredibly careful not to teach the wrong thing. The very minimum behaviour we want to enshrine as routines. Everything else is treated as a bonus. Some days they get no coins and that’s fine. Points are never taken away. Coins are spent however they want.

243423443• 9 months ago

I made a similar thing for my adult flatmates when I was still a student. I was less 8bit and less a game, but the same priciple.

The incentive was a slight rent reduction at the end of each month.

It completely failed to motivate my friends to do more chores, but it landed me my first job.

thw_9a83c2• 9 months ago

Nice! I also created a "virtual bank account" for my kids when they were 7-8yo. They can choose to take the weekly cash or put it in their savings account. My bank gives them a 5% interest rate per month, which isn't bad. Explaining the idea of compound interest this way is easy.

However, I think that's the easier part of being an investor. The more complicated part is risk management. With a savings account, there is basically zero risk. But that's not how you invest these days.

mattmanser• 9 months ago

5% per month? Where is this crazy money generator? Assume you meant per year here!

It's not zero risk:

- Your currency may collapse, see Germany 1930s, Argentina, Zimbabwe, Venezula, etc.

- Only a certain figure is protected in savings, though governments will act aggressively to protect that (see 2008 + the Icelandic/UK/Dutch palava)

thw_9a83c2• 9 months ago

Yes, it's 5% per month. You wouldn't be able to explain the concept of a yearly compound interest rate to such young children. One year is an eternity in their life. I also don't give them too much pocket money to encourage them to save. They would spend it on junk food if they had too much cash.

A agree, that the currency is not a 100% safe investment. Inflation especially makes it bad for long-term savings. Indeed, money in any savings account is insured only up to a certain amount. However, that's not something you can explain to kids with a "virtual account." I suppose the idea that Daddy's bank will go bankrupt is probably not an ideal way to teach kids financial literacy.

fodkodrasz2• 9 months ago

But how do you charge the phone?

roberdam25• 9 months ago

disabling wifi+data extend a lot the battery

fodkodrasz2• 9 months ago

The screen is the biggest consumer imho.

I mean of course I understand that the phone can be removed by the suction mount, but thus also defeats the idle infotainment concept.

Also seen screen burn in...

pmg1022• 9 months ago

You're giving a 15% growth rate with zero volatility? That isn't going to teach many important lessons.

How about offering a range of rates with volatility increasing as rate increases. Then they can think about the benefit of guaranteed return vs the benefit of long-term growth, or a combination of both.

sebastiennight15• 9 months ago

OP: I think introducing volatility (which you can just model with one percentage variable and a sinusoidal multiplier based on this: 100% volatility means if your "real" balance was going to be $100 today, it varies between $0 and $200 ; 10% volatility means you're fluctuating between $90 and $110) is also a good idea in teaching kids to refrain from the impulse of withdrawing the money just because today's daily gain is in the red.

Another add to the feature request list :)

pmg1022• 9 months ago

The biggest challenge with pensions is convincing people in their 20s to invest in high risk/high return investments. This is usually the right strategy because of the long time horizon of several decades until they will need to crystallise losses/gains.

However if they see their pension balance fall in a big correction, they can panic and move to less volatile investments, thus reducing their long term gains.

You can theorize all you want but the best way to learn to cope with this is for it to happen to you so it would be great to include it in the simulation!

wiseowise2• 9 months ago

You forgot to add taxes, market crashes, sanctions, asset depreciation, companies goes bankrupt and other fun things.

seydor• 9 months ago

Tangentially i can't help but notice a pattern. Generation1 says "build more homes", then they build them and convince Generation2 to invest despite ever climbing real estate prices. Then the internet happens and Generation2 says "build more companies". They build them , and proceed to convince Generation3 to invest in those companies despite ever climbing stock values. Seems like these trends run in cycles

mlmonkey• 9 months ago

When I started working at 24, a friend of mine (a few years older than me) asked me if our company had a 401(K) and what was the match.

I was confused. What's this gobbledygook? So I asked around and got him the answers, and he responded with: max out your 401(K). Just do it. And do not ever think about taking money out of it.

So I followed his advice. At that time, the ~$5500 cut in paycheck (my gross was around $35K, IIRC) stung a little. I was single, footloose and fancyfree, and those extra few hundred dollars a month would have been fun to have. But I stuck to his advice.

Today, almost 30 years later, thanks to that, I have a nice nest egg and don't have to worry about retirement (modulo catastrophic illnesses, of course).

So recently my friends' kids started working, and I gave them the same advice: Max out your 401(K), pick a Vanguard Target Retirement fund, and forget about it. If your place offers a "Mega Back Door" option, use it to the fullest extent possible. And if your company has a HDHCP, put funds in your HSA too.

We have a lot of avenues to save these days. Make full use of them.

sema4hacker• 9 months ago

We have a lot of avenues to save these days.

Consider investing your time, not just your money. In other words, do careful research, start a business, then put your labor into offering a product or service that fills a need, instead of simply working for someone else. If you fail, you'll still learn a lot for another try. And if you succeed, the payoff can be much larger and faster than anything else you might attempt.

UK-Al053• 9 months ago

The reality is you'll probably lose a ton of money, then get another job.

itake• 9 months ago

I’m in my 30s. Very very few of my friends have been able to match my tech income (and investment portfolio my tech income gave me) with their startup or local business.

Many of them are realizing how far behind they are with someone that stuck with their tech career for 15 years.

mothballed3• 9 months ago

I used a lot of the money I could have 'saved for retirement' on a house instead. Given how fast housing prices have risen and the compounding issue of the cost of rents, I'm not sure I'm too far behind. If you look at REITs, which combine the value of housing appreciation with increased values of rents, they are beating stocks in general over the period I've been working.

You might actually be worse off saving for retirement, at early career stages. Of course, some will point out retirement savings are tax protected, but so are modest capital gains on primary residence.

https://i2.wp.com/financialsamurai.com/wp-content/uploads/20...

Pooge2• 9 months ago

You might actually be worse off saving for retirement, at early career stages.

A very well-diversified, international fund usually performs at 8% annually which is far more than you would get holding REITs (or worse, properties themselves). What you invest for (e.g. education, retirement, projects) is irrelevant as long as your time horizon allows for crash recoveries (measured in decades at worst and months at best).

deadbabe• 9 months ago

The number one thing people fail to truly take advantage of is the triple tax advantage of HSA accounts. So powerful.

Even better is that you can save medical receipts throughout your life and withdraw all that money for any purpose in the future without paying income tax on it.

FredPret5• 9 months ago

Love this.

Especially the opening line:

"“What comes with the milk, leaves with the soul” — Russian proverb."

I love a good proverb. This one goes hard.

lutusp• 9 months ago

I explained to my kids that investing is like having a magic box that generates more money over time.

That is wildly misleading. Investing is super important, but it shouldn't be described in this fairy-tale way. Young people might be misled into trusting investment advisors/counselors/brokers, whose real goal is to enrich themselves at your expense. In fact, there are adults who haven't yet learned this.

An article about investing that doesn't mention the WSJ dartboard contest isn't worth reading -- essentially, over 14 years, random stock picks produced returns equal to those of stockbrokers, before the stockbroker's fees and other costs were subtracted.

An investment counselor's primary goal is to make you think you need his services. His secondary goes is to keep you from performing your own research to discover that is false.

roberdam25• 9 months ago

never speak about investment counselors on the article, I will forward the WSJ article to my 7 year old girl so she won't be scammed by her broker (me).

Mr_Bees69• 9 months ago

you need to add the meta utf8 tag

roberdam25• 9 months ago

thanks for the tip!, added.

tictacttoe• 9 months ago

I wouldn’t want kids to grow up chasing a number. It’s just too reductionist. If you want them to be financially secure, teach them skills and the money will follow. TC obsession is a blight.

bruckie2• 9 months ago

I run a "Bank of Dad", tracked in a spreadsheet for my kids. They can choose to "invest" their money with me or not. To make investing meaningful for them, I pay 10% interest per month, up to a $50 balance.

To avoid bankrupting myself—and to encourage them to get a real investment account when the time comes—the rate drops as the balance increases, similar to progressive tax brackets. By the time they get to $1000 balance, the annualized rate works out to ~6%, and after that it drops fast enough that it's essentially free for me to operate.

Overall, it's been quite successful. Now whenever the kids get money, they invest it immediately. And they often delay or forego spending so that they can get more interest the next month. They haven't turned into complete misers, but it has encourage a mentality of thinking about saving, and I think the concept of interest has landed quite well. I think things really started to click for them around age 8 or 9.

If you're interested in doing something similar, I made a sanitized version of the spreadsheet. Feel free to copy: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1f3FgHUohw26sHuCoO40s...

singleshot_2• 9 months ago

These kids are going to be so mad at how low interest rates are at actual banks that I wonder if this is ultimately going to teach them to borrow rather than save. I guess it’s the same thing, really: they’re learning the time value of money either way.

bruckie2• 9 months ago

I've been very transparent with them that the interest rates they get from me are far more generous than out there in the real world. :)

koolba• 9 months ago

Alternatively we’ll have hyper inflation and they’ll be even madder that all their nominal scrimping and saving was meaningless.

moffkalast• 9 months ago

The phone is attached to the fridge and works as a panel or dashboard where my kids can see their money growing each day.

Or alternatively, your kids can see their money going up and down in value randomly, giving them constant anxiety if they're gonna lose it all while the US president uses the stock market as a pump and dump scheme.

dndn1• 9 months ago

Not for the same audience but for much the same idea I made a progressive visualization of saving and compound interest in a blog post about pension saving:

https://calcwithdec.dev/posts/pictures-pensions/

I intentionally didn't include numbers at all - they are a bit more effort to interpret.

A visualization might be a nice feature for kids (but it probably depends on the kid!)

eps• 9 months ago

What's the native version of the opening proverb?

What comes with the milk, leaves with the soul.

wbadart• 9 months ago

OP, love the idea, and cool to see a useful PWA!

One note: I noticed when opening the installed PWA in airplane mode, styles didn't load. You might be interested in this article on PWA caching from MDN:

https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Web/Progressive_web...

roberdam25• 9 months ago

thanks for the comment & tip!, I'm going to try to make the app without external dependencies.

cutler2• 9 months ago

Teach your kids how life is about getting something for nothing. Great parenting.

cutler2• 9 months ago

"We're only making plans for Nigel" (XTC, 1979)

bhu1st• 9 months ago

If you don't have an old device lying around to make use of, here's an X thread I found a while ago supporting similar habit for kids: https://x.com/ValKatayev/status/1926734004314624481

I have set up a similar Google sheet for my 12 yo, which is shared with him on view-only mode. He loves the idea that he's earning $$ every day out of his savings. He's on fire to grow his investment to the point that he earns $5 every day, "while sleeping". He's currently making ~$2/day.

Show HN: In a single HTML file, an app to encourage my children to invest

Related Stories