Smartphones and being present

https://herman.bearblog.dev/being-present/

by articsputnik • 9 months ago

438 268 9 months ago

herman.bearblog.dev

A big problem I find is that if you are a family and have kids you basically have to keep up and that means turning on notifications for messages and emails and then of course that leads to opening the phone, reading email, checking HN (obviously) and then posting a comment on it! urghh

coldpie• 9 months ago

I don't have kids, so I can't 100% relate, but have you dug into the notifications settings on your phone? They're extremely flexible. I've set mine up so any non-chat notification gets batched into a group that shows at 5 AM and 5 PM. This lets me check on whatever happened the previous evening while I'm having breakfast, and whatever happened during the day after I get home from work. Once I've flipped through all the notifications and done whatever other time wasting things, it goes back in my pocket and largely does not disturb me for another 12 hours.

Maybe something like that could work. If you find there are notifications that are disturbing you, but they really could have waited until the evening, toss 'em in the batch bucket. Eventually you'll tune out all the low-importance stuff and get your life back. Or find some other cadence that works for you. It takes some effort to tune these systems, but I think it's worth it.

titanomachy2• 9 months ago

I'm surprised that no one else I know uses this feature. It's helped me a lot.

wmeredith• 9 months ago

My high schooler is in theatre and they post critical updates via Instagram. It drives me crazy.

And don't get me started on all the custom apps cluttering my phone that these schools and sports leagues get sold on for sharing flyers and other info (Parent Square, Peach Jar, Playmetrics, Mojo, etc.) I guess it's a feature that most of those apps are not well designed and they don't suck you into addictive engagement loops like the big social media platforms.

qmr2• 9 months ago

Nah that's what FRS, GMRS, APRS and LoRA / Meshtastic are for.

Come on, raise your kids right.

titanomachy2• 9 months ago

I followed the instructions here to cripple my phone using Apple Configurator: https://stopa.io/post/297

Now the browser doesn't work and I can't install new apps. I also turn on "Do Not Disturb" almost all the time, which allows through notifications from exactly 3 people.

jeanofthedead2• 9 months ago

I’m a big fan of the “Reduce Interruptions” focus mode.

ProllyInfamous6• 9 months ago

I was super-disappointed, attending my recent state townhall meeting, that the only way to participate was scanning a QR code to fill out a survey. After asking for a paper copy (which was never produced), I decided to participate in my own manner:

I stood up and heckled my clown state representatives, for almost an hour, providing audience-appreciated commentary to what I perceive as our failed political system (US bipartisan).

To their toothless grocery sales tax reduction legislation (which'll never pass), I suggested my fellow constituents just shop across the state line, in one of the many nearby grocery stores — just STOP giving our state this money, then maybe they'll consider legislative changes.

Perhaps this fell upon deaf ears, but I wasn't the only audience member frustrated with our legislators' back-patting/inaction. I will vote/shop with my money, elsewhere. I wrote my state officials a letter afterwards, offering common-sense suggestions — hoping this geriatric remembers my participation (he turns 80 soon... just retire already, Congressman!).

alchemist1e92• 9 months ago

What does this have to do with the post?

throwmeaway222• 9 months ago

I think the most surprising thing about it, at least in the US - is that mobile bandwidth is THE most expensive. I imagine that's inverted or opposite elsewhere

kwanbix• 9 months ago

How expensive? In spain you can get 20~30GB for 10 euros, which is more than enough for most people.

pessimizer2• 9 months ago

10GB for $30.

https://cabletvinfo.com/internet-services/cricket-wireless-p...

or 20GB for $35, with no talk or text.

https://www.usmobile.com/blog/explore-cricket-wireless-simpl...

edit: linking weird sites because I don't know how accessible US telecom site pricing is in Europe, but they are correct.

jlokier• 9 months ago

For perspective, I pay USD $17.33 a month for unlimited 5G data - in the UK, in GBP, so really £13. Low quality home broadband costs more than that, and is slower, but with better latency.

I've tested the unlimited claim, and they really do let you download terabytes. All my local LLMs are downloaded over mobile data.

So yes, in my experience it's inverted over here. Mobile bandwidth is the cheapest if you can get a good deal and you're in an uncongested area with a good signal. Unfortunately that's not a combination I've found to be reliable anywhere I go, especially over the last 6 months. But the price is good!

sgt3• 9 months ago

I wonder how the telcos make money though. 4G/LTE/5G towers everywhere is a huge investment, even the maintenance.

graypegg• 9 months ago

The first way is to not have recommendation media (think Instagram, TikTok, and all the rest). I'm pro deleting these accounts completely, because it's really easy to re-download the apps on a whim, or *visit them in-browser.*

Tiktok having a borderline unusable web app has done wonders for me. I'll end up on it because someone sent me a link, I can watch that ONE video, a single time, before normally I get a spot-the-boat style captcha or an "install the app" modal. Even trying to get past that point, it feels like the site is somehow falling apart at the seams as you navigate around. I know the concept is "well people will install the app then" but that's also annoyingly frictionful.

They unintentionally made the most literal social media experience: some one sends me media, I watch it once, I leave before the site crumbles to pieces like an ancient tomb that was only held together by a load-bearing dog video.

Carlseymanh• 9 months ago

I am putting the load bearing dog video on the example shelf right next to the load bearing (disproven) TF2_coconut.jpg

avgDev• 9 months ago

I like Reddit, I pay for an app on iOS to have a reasonable experience. The mobile web experience otherwise is terrible.

Social Media sucks now. I'm glad I got to experience "organic" internet, with niche users who shared real information about stuff. Not the marketing machine we have now.

andrepd• 9 months ago

I'm firmly convinced we will, eventually, look back at algorithmic social media with the same revulsion as we now look at leaded gasoline or ubiquitous cigarretes. No less harmful.

asdff2• 9 months ago

It is amazing to me how dogshit the reddit mobile experience is. Some comments load, others don't. Will the child comments load? Who knows. Is this ordered in any way? How about 5 links you don't care about instead of the discussion thread you clicked on.

old.reddit.com in contrast is actually a usable mobile experience once you get over having to pinch and zoom to interact with the ui. Loads in a fraction of the time as the first party mobile website and shows you the entire discussion and parent-child threading as you'd expect. No nondeterministic behavior.

Synaesthesia• 9 months ago

I generally only use the old.reddit.com via a browser on my phone.

mock-possum• 9 months ago

Yeah, after Reddit killed Apollo on iOS I just stopped using it on mobile.

ssiddharth• 9 months ago

Which app is this, if you don't mind divulging?

randallsquared• 9 months ago

This is exactly my experience as well, and partially why I only use tiktok and facebook from a browser.

grvdrm• 9 months ago

Instagram works just a bit better but roughly the same. And that helps keep me off.

janwl2• 9 months ago

Instagram has had broken web notifications for a month or so. You click the notifications and nothing happens; the post doesn’t open. The first days I thought someone had messed something up but after a month I’m not so sure. And there obviously is no way of telling them (and have a human read the report).

at-fates-hands2• 9 months ago

Instagram is the worst. I started on there because I got back in photography and people said I absolutely needed to be on it.

Notifications has been broken off and on for months now. Before you would see there were message on your post. Click on post? Nothing. First it would load the image and show zero comments. Then it wouldn't load the image and just a blank screen. Now its the same problem in the notifications menu. Can't click on the comment, won't bring up the notice, nothing happens.

Its 2025 and its the worst UI experience I've had on any social media app and its not even close. I just keep wondering how this can be this bad for this long without anything changing.

codethief• 9 months ago

You click the notifications and nothing happens; the post doesn’t open.

Glad I'm not the only one.

At least the same(?) update finally fixed the browser back button and you don't have to scroll all the way down again after hitting it.

ErigmolCt5• 9 months ago

This might be the most poetic description of TikTok's web experience I've ever read

jdpigeon• 9 months ago

A few years ago I traded my huge Google Pixel 6 for a 3 inch Uniherz Jelly.

It's not perfect, as I still spend a lot of time on Reddit and HN on the tiny screen while commuting, but it's moved the needle for me.

nemomarx2• 9 months ago

Just curious, do you have to do anything to get Reddit fitting on that screen properly? I almost imagine it would need a reader mode kinda thing

qmr2• 9 months ago

Huh I came across some very similar looking phones on a similar looking website just yesterday.

I guess these phones are rebadged?

throwaway243123• 9 months ago

I've debated getting that phone heavily. My reasons not to:

1. it's gotta be bad for the eyes on a screen that small 2. the Pixel camera!

wltr4• 9 months ago

A small iPhone has pretty good cameras, e.g. 12 or 13 mini.

wltr4• 9 months ago

I researched this phone, and while being cool (I like the idea), it’s not practical for me to hunt it, it’s not trivial to buy in my area. However, I have a similar idea to others: an old tiny iPhone (4S or 5S if you can survive with the obsolete system, FaceTime and iMessage works there last time I checked, a year or two ago), or SE 1st gen (I use it as my second phone to my 12 mini), which is perfectly usable (Safari is stuck at whatever version it has from iOS 15). It’s not very practical everyday phone, but it works for most tasks, including navigation with maps. So if you’re hunting a small distraction free phone, an obsolete iPhone is a pretty decent thing to buy, and is usually cheap. I bet getting a new battery might be more expensive than the phone itself, unless you’re up to the task (it’s not complicated, if you have the basic instruments). I know it’s the opposite of an open phone with an easily swappable battery, but it’s a decent step into the direction. And I found an old iPhone being very usable for very basic tasks. If I had a Pro Max, I’d surely wasted much more time on it. I know because I had one before.

carlosjobim• 9 months ago

Get a Kindle and read good books while commuting. You shouldn't feel bad for not looking out the window.

ddtaylor3• 9 months ago

I'm really glad that for whatever reason my brain has completely rejected short-form content. It seems to be a serious problem for a lot of people. I don't understand it the same way I don't understand heroin addictions. My mind is just screaming "STOP DOING IT" and cannot get passed that concept very far.

righthand• 9 months ago

The trick of short form video isn’t the content itself but the channel flipping, hunting hook action. Changing the channel is fun when you actually land on something-good in the sea of garbage. And sometimes that something-good is a an endless handkerchief. One that you can keep pulling out good somethings with. Now you feel extra special like you’ve found something novel as you’ve completed the hunt and are satiated. And you keep that endless handkerchief you found. Soon you will have found many novel endless handkerchiefs. You mount them on your profile page like boar heads on a hunters wall. This pride is tied to happiness and you know how to hunt for more.

I highly recommend the book Hooked by Nir Eyal[0]. It is the book that effortlessly detailed how to build short form video networks (as well as other addicting software over the last 10+ years). The people who built this stuff read it and the people who want to stop the addictions should read it.

[0] https://search.worldcat.org/title/881418283

boogieknite• 9 months ago

for me its because i browse hn and the overwhelming cynicism "tastes" much worse than the entertainment provided

neutronicus• 9 months ago

You're on HN, though. In some sense, reeling in people like you has been a solved problem for decades, since forums were invented.

I apologize for what is doubtless egregious projection on my part.

I am like you in the sense that I seem "immune" to TikTok/Reels, especially relative to my wife, who can definitely get sucked into it for 30-60 minutes. However, I'm easily-snared by things like "the last year of drama in the NixOS community". I can easily spend an hour I don't have reading forum threads in which people are accusing moderators of abusing their position in a forum about a piece of technology I don't use.

So in some sense the tech industry didn't need to "innovate" in order to suck me in. I was getting sucked into reading about web forum drama 20 years ago.

ImaCake• 9 months ago

HN is too boring though. Often I come here and there is nothing clickbait enough to get me to read it and I go elsewhere. It's great.

cm20122• 9 months ago

You just prefer text as your dopamine injection medium rather than video.

alganet5• 9 months ago

If the world was addicted to reading, it would be actually great. It offers rewards beyond instant gratification.

ddtaylor3• 9 months ago

What I have noticed is that when I read something I often deeply connected enough to the material that at some point I disengage and go DO SOMETHING with that information. If I'm reading something about a guy coding something and I get an idea I am going to play around.

Most of the YouTube and short-form content doesn't inspire anything like that. The "job" is to sit and watch the content for 30 seconds and repeat. Almost every form of "engagement" is to manipulate the audience into "doing the algorithm".

I think they have differences that are significant.

layer8• 9 months ago

You don’t enjoy the short-form comments on this forum?

pigeons• 9 months ago

I find it incredibly more distracting when someone nearby or in the household is watching tiktok or similar within earshot than if they are watching a longer-form video or television program. Seemingly because I can "tune-out" the long form program but every time the video switches with tiktok, my brain "activates" and gets distracted to check if it needs to pay attention or not.

ddtaylor3• 9 months ago

And that's why the kids are massively addicted to it. Their brains have been hacked.

jay_kyburz• 9 months ago

I find the shorts on youtube super addictive, but the algo is too repetitive. I once watched a drumming video to then end, not I get heaps of drumming. It's cool, but I'm just not that into drumming.

I've been trying to correct the algo but giving a down thumb to videos I don't want to watch but its not learning.

thenthenthen• 9 months ago

Very occidental perspective. There are places where you need your phone practically 24/7, no affordance of escape. I can give an example of my day, which is basically completely phone centered, the only words I utter in a day is some digits to the taxi driver to verify my identity (when i can afford a ride that is).

Edit: mute button is essential and don't allow any notifications outside important messages/apps

LeifCarrotson2• 9 months ago

Is this out of convenience or necessity? Do you have redundant devices so that if your primary glass slab is unusable for some reason, you're still able to make it home at the end of the day? Are you in some new role and lifestyle that wouldn't have been possible 20 years ago, or suffering from a disability for which the cell phone is your only means of achieving independence?

The human race has survived for about 2 million years without a 24/7 tether. Our environment is the safest and most human-shaped it's ever been, you don't need to have constant anxiety about true emergency situations resolved by cell phone connections, those are unimaginably rare.

It's totally feasible to go without a cell phone once in a while, just try it! Check your emails once a day, 5 days a week. Set up an auto-responder saying you're unavailable and can check messages at [time]. Navigate with your memory and the many signs that are posted, or with a paper map for aid. Write down things you need to remember with a pen and a piece of paper. Leave the phone behind and just go for a walk in a park with nothing but your surroundings and your thoughts. The world will keep turning for 30 minutes regardless of whether you're keeping tabs on it through the phone.

nemomarx2• 9 months ago

I think they're referring to (the especially common in Asia) scenario where all payments/ authentication/ local services are handled via smartphone applications? You can definitely go for a walk without it but you might not be able to get on transit, buy from shops, read a menu at a restaurant or so on.

aaaashley• 9 months ago

Speaking of using custom CSS with YouTube, I do the following for my experience:

- Completely hide the recommended tab

- Make every thumbnail grayscale (to mitigate eye-catching thumbnails)

- Make every video title lowercase (to mitigate eye-catching titles)

Here's my code, although I have to update it every once and a while when YouTube changes:

  yt-thumbnail-view-model { filter: grayscale(); }
  h3[title] { text-transform: lowercase; }
  .ytd-watch-flexy #secondary { display: none !important; }

It's amazing how much a couple small changes can make on your browsing experience. The companies that own these products have a huge incentive to make every element purposefully addictive. I've also patched the iOS Instagram app to remove all Reels (using FLEXtool & Sideloadly), so I can keep up with my friends without falling into the traps. As developers, we have the ability to target these manipulative tactics and remove them, and I encourage you to do this as much as possible.

sogen2• 9 months ago

If you disable History, it automatically removes Recommendations across your devices.

the_af4• 9 months ago

What do you get instead of recommendations? Random junk or just nothing?

I find YouTube recommendations very useful. I only get what I'm interested in or adjacent topics, no junk, no ragebait.

nunodonato4• 9 months ago

The issue for me is that I really want History (sometimes I need to go back to a video I know I watched 3 weeks ago). It's bs that they need history disabled to also disable recommendations.

amilios• 9 months ago

Can you explain how you patched the iOS IG app? Seems massively useful if it's not too much of a pain. Please share!

cubefox• 9 months ago

For YouTube addicts I recommend uninstalling the app, using the website, and installing the Unhook browser extension for Chrome/Firefox/Edge. It can remove recommendations, shorts and a bunch of other stuff.

https://unhook.app/

fleebee• 9 months ago

I second this. I had a tendency to get stuck watching YouTube videos before I hid all algorithmic recommendations and the Home page with Unhook. I can finally use YouTube without getting distracted, and there's no way I'm going back.

I just wish I had an addon like this for, well, everything. The browser is such a great platform because you can have this much control over your experience--no such luck with mobile apps.

vovavili• 9 months ago

Wonderful extension, but at times my dopamine-addicted brain keeps disabling it on an impulse instead of doing something creative or productive on my PC. I looked into making it impossible to disable this extension through registry editor, but so far none of the settings in Windows seem to stick.

MountDoom• 9 months ago

I always felt that I'm spending too much time in front of a computer, but it was at least somewhat meaningful because I had opportunities to create: write code, blog, and so on.

When smartphones came out, I made a decision early on that I'm just not going to use them in a way that makes my internet footprint follow me everywhere I go. I set them up using a throwaway email account, turned off almost all notifications, and added just family and real-world friends. I think this served me well for nearly two decades. I really only use my phone for maps, photos, and maybe 2-5 messages a day. I honestly never found myself in a situation where I thought to myself, "gosh, I wish I could read my e-mail right now".

But in the past five years, there's been this mounting pressure from app vendors to make sure I can no longer enjoy that. Every other time a friend sends me a web link, I get a popup that detects I'm on mobile and demands I install an app. And they increasingly can't be dismissed, so if I want to view that URL, I need to mail it to myself and open it on a desktop.

If you work for a place that does that, I just hope you stub your toe every morning.

dripton2• 9 months ago

The phone vendors should support not telling the websites you're on mobile. I know they can guess based on resolution and such, but there should be a setting to lie and simulate a desktop. You can't rely on every single website not being run by jerks, but you should be able to buy a phone from a company that cares more about its customers than random jerks.

janwl2• 9 months ago

The phone vendors want you downloading and using apps.

ksymph• 9 months ago

Most browser apps have an option for this, no? Chrome and Vivaldi have it for sure.

badc0ffee• 9 months ago

Safari has this setting, but the half dozen times I've tried it, it doesn't work. I suspect you're right that it's because sites just look at the resolution.

thaumasiotes• 9 months ago

The phone vendors should support not telling the websites you're on mobile.

The browser vendors already do. What do you want to change?

xandrius• 9 months ago

You mean Desktop view? Which exists on every browser?

If you want full fooling, install a UA changer on your Firefox mobile, and you're laughing.

jakub_g• 9 months ago

On Android at least, you can toggle "desktop view" in any browser. The UX is crap on some websites, but you can make things work enough to not need the app.

For example I use Opera to browse `facebook.com/messages`. It's a bad UX for writing (somehow it "swallows" some of the written text when you type too fast, or select text and try to overwrite it), but this makes me use it less. Won't ever install FB app on my phone.

reaperducer2• 9 months ago

there should be a setting to lie and simulate a desktop.

Apple has started down this road. All iPads now use desktop user agents.

pengaru• 9 months ago

And they increasingly can't be dismissed, so if I want to view that URL, I need to mail it to myself and open it on a desktop.

Usually I can work around this by toggling "desktop mode" in firefox on android...

gausswho• 9 months ago

Also on Android you can use Firefox Nightly with uBlock Origin. Go to settings and enable all the Social and Annoyances lists. This should suppress many prompts to download an app.

MrDarcy2• 9 months ago

Not much to add other than I switched to this exact model in 2020 and have had the same pleasant outcome for 5 years now. I’m much more productive and can execute deep work for weeks on end. I remained in the zone on my current project for 4 consecutive weeks. I attribute this to having no distractions. The outcomes produced from remaining in the zone for so long are objectively measurable and high level.

jcul• 9 months ago

Do you browse hacker news on your phone? Genuine question, I don't use social media but I do spend a lot of time on HN on my phone.

ErigmolCt5• 9 months ago

Deep work isn't just about focus, it's about staying long enough in that state for the compounding effect to kick in, and it sounds like you've nailed that

surgical_fire2• 9 months ago

When smartphones came out, I made a decision early on that I'm just not going to use them in a way that makes my internet footprint follow me everywhere I go.

From my social circle, the only such annoying links I get are from Instagram.

I have a deep, almost visceral hatred for the current incarnation of social media, so I go out of my way to not create accounts on those things.

For Instagram and similar shit, I could find some nice downloader bots on Telegram. They typically require you to join some spam channels, but you can join and archive those so you never see that they exist.

basisword5• 9 months ago

> For Instagram and similar shit, I could find some nice downloader bots on Telegram. They typically require you to join some spam channels, but you can join and archive those so you never see that they exist.

Why is this better than just joining Instagram with a 'ghost' account only used to view things you've been sent. No following or viewing otherwise. Is it just self-control (which I fully understand if it is)?

wolvesechoes2• 9 months ago

I always felt that I'm spending too much time in front of a computer, but it was at least somewhat meaningful because I had opportunities to create: write code, blog, and so on.

Yeah, we can waste a lot of time in front of the PC, but it at least can be used for creativity and productivity.

[Smart]phones are almost pure consumption.

ryandrake2• 9 months ago

[Smart]phones are almost pure consumption.

This might depend on one's age/generation. There are tons of internet-connected people today growing up without ever owning (or knowing how to use) a PC at all. They do everything on their phone, including the creative stuff. I didn't believe it either until I saw my friend's high-school age kid writing an entire 15 page writing assignment on her phone. Us PC people are kind of dinosaurs.

prmoustache• 9 months ago

While you xan be productive, procrastination is right at the corner even on a PC.

For instance some people making music like to have a dedicated, offline computer to do so in lrder to not be tempted to open the web browser for 2 minutes that transformz itself into hours. Same for some writers who try to seek dedicated environments focused on writing and limiting their exposure to the internet.

walkabout• 9 months ago

Cannot relate. Aside from creating things for computers (code) I do a lot more creation-related stuff with my phone.

I mean, it's covered in cameras and microphones and shit. I can measure things with it. In a pinch, it's a level. Photos for reference at the hardware store. Filming content for most any purpose short of outright pro-level work, great on a phone. Tuner for my instruments, metronome if I want that, good for sheet music (iPad's best, but a phone will do in a pinch, and I'm not gonna carry a laptop around and unfold it and stuff). It fits in my pocket and I always have it, which means it's the only "notebook" I've been able to stick with for writing down ideas. Working with MIDI? Phone or tablet. In the workshop? Phone or tablet. Cooking? Phone or tablet. Working on my car? Phone. Working on the garden or any handyman-stuff around the house? Phone. A laptop would be a downgrade in every case, I don't really have any use for one aside from writing code.

I messed around with stuff like MSPaint as a kid, like everyone else, but these days I'd do that in Procreate on the iPad (and that is in fact what I use for drawing). Even the Pocket version on a phone would be better.

Unless I'm making things for computers an I-device is at least as good, and usually better, for creation-related stuff. Phones are worse for long-form writing, mostly due to the tiny screen, but a tablet's better for that than a laptop, given an external keyboard, because you can place the screen somewhere other than right on top of the keyboard, for better ergonomics.

hanlec• 9 months ago

I have been trying to reduce my usage. I still cannot find a way to resist pulling out the phone to: - perform a quick search (browser or ai) - listen to podcasts - listen to audiobook - check the data of the last running or gym session.

Are there alternatives that are as friendly? Or being friendly is the danger here?

lm28469• 9 months ago

Disable fingerprint unlock, add a long password, airplane mode unless you actively want to check something, &c. Add as many barriers as possible so that by the time you get through you either forgot why you came for or realised it's not that important

I don't think there are alternatives to what modern phones can do, unless you want to carry multiple dumb devices around (ebook + GPS + mp3 player for example)

mapontosevenths• 9 months ago

I had to combine two apps to really nail it. I should say that currently I'm in Android.

The first is an app called Bloom (theres another called Brick thats similar) that allows you to lock app access behind a physical NFC card. You lock the app and to unlock you must scan the card.

The second is an app called "freedom" that blocks access to specific websites or apps on a schedule.

I setup Freedom to block the distracting apps and websites during specific hours, then used Bloom to block Freedom, this prevents me from just disabling Freedom when I'm bored. I keep the NFC tag in my car.

Now I use a full featured smartphone that does what I want, and if I actually need access to social media or blocked sites I go to the car to unlock Bloom. I still have all the options, they're just a little more inconvenient.

The added friction of having to physically get up means I usually just don't bother, and Freedoms scheduling and category based blocks mean I can be pretty flexible about what I block and when.

at-fates-hands2• 9 months ago

I found the one thing that kept me off of my phone was using a degoogled pixel 4XL with Graphene OS on it. So much you can't do on the stock version using F-Droid app store. I really enjoyed until I needed to start downloading a few banking apps that didn't work on it.

So I'm back, but limit what I have on my phone now and its like you said, a constant struggle NOT to download and install something.

Gigachad2• 9 months ago

Tbh the link problem is common for everyone. I sent a tiktok link to a non tech friend and they couldn’t view it because they didn’t have an account. So I used a downloaded tool to send the video directly. All of the major social media sites are locking out users who aren’t signed in with the app. So you usually just screenshot or use an external tool to rip the content.

basisword5• 9 months ago

RE: TikTok. I get links sent frequently and I can view on the web. They make it very difficult though! Muted and autoplay by default and hard to find the unmute button under a web of popups. I think the site isn't responsive either so desktop site on mobile. Also - for some videos at least on TikTok you can download the video via the share button! So not always necessary to use a third party tool.

nunodonato4• 9 months ago

I simply reply, "I can't see that because it requires an account". Often people give up and don't send me anything... which I'm also fine with, since it's mostly "funny videos"

homebrewer2• 9 months ago

Most of those mobile application nags can be removed by enabling the corresponding filter list in uBlock Origin settings. If you're not using Firefox on the phone, both Vivaldi and Brave have this subscription in their settings (I think it might even be enabled out of the box).

scyzoryk_xyz• 9 months ago

Apps and phones are just so much better for surveillance which I know, duh. Most users simply don't give it any thought and install apps left and right permissions included. The smaller screen real estate is also better for surveillance - smaller number of things on screen equals more granular information on what you're doing precisely.

Extra toe-stubbing wishes for those that are pushing this paradigm into desktop - it's bewildering to me when I hear non-technical folks tell me that an app on desktop needs to come from an app store. Or when web design is being "simplified" and dumbed down really on desktop to facilitate surveillance.

Toe-stubbing-every-morning wishes to a lot of people for contributing to this reality.

ErigmolCt5• 9 months ago

You did everything right (set boundaries, kept things intentional) and still the internet crept in through the cracks like water under a poorly sealed door

crossroadsguy• 9 months ago

I did all of this and it has served me well — as far as distractions and unwanted comms go. The problem is, now whenever I get that isolated spam (still happens daily or few times a week — just a little) it gets on my nerves, almost like a rage. Because it feels like a violation. For others I see, they don’t even register it.

nerdsniper2• 9 months ago

I feel similarly whenever I carefully set notifications for apps, turning off everything but the most essential ones (like “your driver is arriving” from Uber) and then the corporation uses the only remaining notification channel to send me marketing engagement notifications like “20% off your next 3 rides!!”

I get pretty upset at this. I have a 1 strike policy for most apps. Now even Uber just doesn't get any notifications at all on my phone.

Same for email spam. If I didn’t opt in or if I unsubscribed and still get emails, or if unsubscribing requires more than 2 clicks, every single one gets reporter to Google as spam. If there’s no unsubscribe link I report it to the FTC.

I do it out of principle. If everyone took an absolutist hard line on these things, the world would be a tiny bit better.

Vinnl• 9 months ago

Somewhat off-topic, but since it might be useful to you and others:

if I want to view that URL, I need to mail it to myself and open it on a desktop.

I'm signed in to both my Firefox on Android and on desktop, and I can hit the share button while viewing a website and then tap my desktop Firefox under "Send to device". Saves a bunch of steps there.

I'm assuming other browsers can do the same.

Andrex3• 9 months ago

Just a small data point/anecdote: I think the calls to install native apps are actually decreasing now. I don't get spammed for that nearly as much as 2014-2018 or so. Even banks seem to be getting comfortable with making mobile optimized websites now.

But like I said, just my perspective, I don't have any hard data points.

mrweasel• 9 months ago

Even banks seem to be getting comfortable with making mobile optimized websites now

At the cost of making an actually useful website for those of us not on mobile. My bank insists on making their website/online banking platform work as if it was their mobile app. The flow of bank transfers, paying bills, writing to your banking adviser is now entirely confusing and feels unsafe. Even a 14" laptop has plenty of space to show you detailed overviews, but no, assume that the user is on a tiny ass screen and show them mostly white-space.

southernplaces7• 9 months ago

If you work for a place that does that, I just hope you stub your toe every morning.

You're too kind. These kinds of nagging parasites should be force fed excrement until they choke on it.

sjw9874• 9 months ago

"Sorry, I don't have [app/website name]. Could you send a screenshot?"

The only other response is to fill your phone with 128 GB of every different social media app that exists.

lunias• 9 months ago

I will not install your app, but I will silently stop using your service. If I'm installing an app then it should presumably offer me some functionality offline, because if I'm online then I can go to your website.

simgt• 9 months ago

On top of what's suggested in the post, I found the following helpful:

- having a "phone box", the small uncomfortable shoe bench now has a shelf above it for phones, phones shall only be used on that bench

- only my partner knows the "screen time" password on iOS

- putting away my laptop and using a desktop computer instead

My current problem is listening to podcasts, I don't have a convenient way to listen to them without my phone.

wltr4• 9 months ago

I had a side gig that involved me driving every day for at least one hour, but usually more. I listened to all kinds of podcasts and audio books. But at some point, I realised I cannot process that much of information. That’s how I stopped, perhaps we humans aren’t designed to process that much daily.

emerongi• 9 months ago

It feels validating that other people have a similar experience. I simply can't take in that much information. It eventually starts making me feel terrible.

The big issue is that I'm not very good at moderating my intake. I'm a crack addict for information and one small dose will turn into a bender.

dustincoates3• 9 months ago

I think it's fine if you accept it as entertainment and nothing more. That's why I don't get how people listen to audiobooks on 3x. The goal isn't to ingest as much as you can--the goal is to enjoy it and maybe learn something useful here and there.

armonster• 9 months ago

Get a secondary "podcast only" phone

nonethewiser4• 9 months ago

RIP mp3 players

dustincoates3• 9 months ago

I have an old phone I've repurposed as a media player. It has a 500 GB SD card and Oluancher to give it a really convenient way to only show the apps I want.

I've got a somewhat weekly 6 hour round-trip commute where it get a lot of use.

sotix• 9 months ago

I downloaded all of hardcore history and added the podcast to my iPod. Fun fact: the iPod is why it's called a podcast!

BoredPositron4• 9 months ago

You don't treat the symptoms; you treat the cause. dumbphones, minimalist phones, and crippled smartphones are as effective as a smoker throwing away a full pack, only to buy a new one when stressed or drunk. If you use doomscrolling as an escape, you will inevitably fall back to it when life hits. While a few may manage to change their habits with a restricted device if the stars align for long enough, it won't work for most. You need to first figure out why you do it.

oarsinsync• 9 months ago

“You must figure out why you smoke in the first place, before you will be able to quit” isn’t a universal truth.

BoredPositron4• 9 months ago

Because you know why you are smoking because you are addicted to nicotine.

makeitdouble• 9 months ago

This isn't universal but will tremendously help quitting. There will still be the nicotine issue, but it will help clear the other factors that can be as powerful as the physical addiction.

mukti• 9 months ago

I heavily use android's focus mode to keep myself from being too distracted. Originally I tried using app timers, but I found myself just constantly bumping them to the point where I wasn't getting a benefit. Whenever I notice an app being noisy with notifications (even if I appreciate them when I'm not busy), I add it into the list of distracting apps. I have a daily focus timer that enabled when I get to work and ends when I (generally) leave work. This keeps me focused during the day, but I also occasionally enable this when I want to focus on other things, or if I find myself spending too much time on random apps. Because of the way that the breaks work, I have to keep asking for 5/15/30min and I'm very aware of how much time I'm wasting. I also enable flip-to-shh mode, which disables all notifications when my phone is face down on a surface. I realize that focus mode and flip-to-shh can seem extreme, but I noticed this works well worked for me.

https://blog.google/products/android/android-focus-mode/

dionian• 9 months ago

same for iphone, i always have it in a focus mode that hides almost all notifications. so much better

cryzinger• 9 months ago

+1 to focus mode; at least on Samsung-flavored Android, you can set a recurring schedule so that focus mode (or any mode) automatically kicks in on certain days/times, which I use to block notifications from and access to certain apps during peak working hours.

Another feature I really like that also might be unique to Samsung-flavored Android--it's been a decade since I've had a device running Vanilla android, lol--is the overall daily screentime tracker. It's purely observational, so there's no penalty for going over, but unlike the app time limits that you can snooze there isn't a way to subtract time that you actually spent, which helps keep me accountable. Mainly I like having a widget that tracks the day's stats on my home screen, because being able to go "oof, did I really spend 45 minutes on <app> today already?" is a strong motivator for me to shape up.

As a bonus, you can also _exclude_ certain apps from the time limit tracker, which I like because it nudges me towards more constructive habits. Stuff like my notes app and Waze don't count towards the timer, nor does my e-reader of choice, which means I'm more likely to read a few pages of a book if I have time to kill since it's "free" against my daily screen goal.

flanbiscuit2• 9 months ago

I wanted to develop an alternative to App Timer on Android. I need something more like "App Timeouts". App Timers are per 24 hours, so as soon I hit X amount of minutes, I'm blocked from using it until midnight and then it resets.

What do I mean about App Timeout?

I want to say "Once I reach 20min on this app, block me from using it for 2 hours". Then it resets after 2 hours from that point. Both of those times being configurable of course.

The problem with the built-in Android App Timers now is I end up setting it to something large, like 1 hour or more because I'm thinking about how much time I want for a full day, but then I just sit there in 1 sitting swiping for that whole amount of time. And this usually happens after midnight so I know that I'm going to be blocked for my next day until after midnight again and the cycle continues.

I'd rather something force me to use it in shorter bits of time. So at midnight I can allow myself to get into an Instagram hole for 10 or 20min, but at least I know when I wake up it's been reset. I think doing this will train me to use the app for shorter amounts of time in general (or at least I think so and I want to test that theory).

I don't even know if this is possible in Android. How can one app block another. Maybe by allowing it to overlay over other apps or something?

dustincoates3• 9 months ago

Lock Me Out does exactly what you are describing: https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.teqtic.loc...

smugglerFlynn• 9 months ago

While I still have the twitch to check my phone when I'm waiting for a coffee, or in-between activities—because my brain's reward system has been trained to do this—I'm now rewarded with nothing

For those looking to drop a(ny) habit: this seems to be the key

abhaynayar• 9 months ago

I have a similar great+simple system for curbing consumptive screen-time, i.e. I don't keep any of those apps on the phone, I block all of those websites on phone/laptop web-browser using an extension like Leech-Block and Un-Hook (YT). Some things that I allow are - YT long-form videos from subscriptions only, Hacker-News, and Linked-In.

THE biggest impediment for me has been stuff like getting sick. When I am sick, I just cannot lie there and do nothing. And it is TOO difficult to do stuff like read books or go out and talk to people or whatnot, it's too much effort. I HAVE to get back on consumptive screen-time. And then it devolves into something uglier - an ugly spiral, of gluttony & consumption, and I keep at it even beyond getting better.

Then it takes days or weeks of laziness and excuses to get back on track. And not just sickness but anything of that level. Anything that just kinda derails my life for a bit. I really need to find a middle-ground solution for the worst-case scenarios. I'm still working on it. I think I should be able to figure it out. It took me a while to figure out my best-case system as well.

portaouflop• 9 months ago

For me reading books works well when I’m sick in bed. You probably need to force yourself for a while but it’s worth it. That being said i was a voracious reader in the past so it might not tickle your toes in the same way

wltr4• 9 months ago

Ditto! I try reading some silly things, play some old silly games (e.g. Warcraft, not arcades), or just watch some YouTube. But I don’t watch YouTube in my daily life, so I’m not addicted to it.

ryandrake2• 9 months ago

I just use an old phone. App developers are lazy and very quick to pull support for devices that are even a little old. A large number of apps won't even install or start, or complain to you to try to shame you into buying a new phone. Use developers' laziness to your advantage.

andrewinardeer2• 9 months ago

I believe that short form video coupled with infinite scroll mesmerizes humans. It keeps them in a trance by using suspense. The brain absolutely must know how the video plays out whether that be waiting for the punchline, a fight to break our or a fact to be delivered. Once the brain has locked eyes on the video the user must put significant energy into making a conscious decision to look away.

Even OpenAI's latest Sora app leans into this format and the videos there are literally the poorest quality on the Internet. 99.999% of them are eight seconds of unintelligent, unintelligible, low grade digitally created excrement.

There should be a law against it.

Big Tech knows this. They have teams of people with doctorates making apps engaging.

StickyRibbs• 9 months ago

dopamine reward feedback loop. Video scrolling is an insidious form of it because the feedback time is so short that you end up hooked on it for hours, feeling bad afterwards; seriously potent stuff.

nonethewiser4• 9 months ago

aka a drug

Gigachad2• 9 months ago

It’s insane. And once you’ve got a habit for it it’s so hard to stop. Without thinking about it you end up back on there scrolling slop. I’ve started to look at using the Screen Time feature on iOS, but it’s hard when some apps have a dual function like YouTube I use for music but also has Shorts.

the_snooze• 9 months ago

It's a slot machine. Everything social media and e-commerce is a slot machine. Each scroll is a pull of the arm, hoping that the algorithmic gods will smile kindly on you and give you some sweet content or deal.

LeifCarrotson2• 9 months ago

Read "Supernormal Stimuli" by Barret [1] for an exploration of the psychology of this "mesmerizing" effect - at least in general, if not specifically in short-form video and infinite scroll.

Whether the artificial stimulus comes in the form of junk food, entertainment, social connection, sex, we've seen time and time again that trillion-dollar megacorps employing thousands of the greatest minds of our generation have been able to invent substitutes that are more compelling than evolution has prepared the human brain to be able to deal with.

It does seem like video shorts are especially easy to exploit.

[1] https://www.harvard.com/book/9780393068481

andrewinardeer2• 9 months ago

Thank you for this recommendation.

krashidov• 9 months ago

We need an infinite video scroll tax

d--b• 9 months ago

I guess I'm fortunate enough to find shorts unbearable. I occasionally watch some from creators I like, but tbh I find a great majority of them really annoying. The vertical frame, the silly endings after 30s of crap. God. It's so bad.

ErigmolCt5• 9 months ago

What gets me is that it's not an accident

egypturnash• 9 months ago

ooh deleting and pausing off youtube's watch history is nice, no more getting sucked into videos of someone beating dark souls by only pressing the Z button or whatever other bullshit Google has realized I will waste hours on.

jeanofthedead2• 9 months ago

I use SocialFocus for iOS/macOS to block recommended videos, etc. It’s incredibly useful.

HelloUsername• 9 months ago

I care about living an intentional and meaningful life, nurturing relationships, having nuanced conversations, and enjoying the world around me.

These.. are all possible with a smartphone?

Desafinado3• 9 months ago

The opposing viewpoint is that smartphones do fill a need of the modern world, and that is that most people have been separated from their families due to the logistics of finding paying work.

Some of my relatives in the 90s, things weren't much better without smartphones. You had long distance calling and TV, or otherwise you were alone. One of my relatives attempted suicide when she was very young, you can guess why.

But yes, it obviously makes sense to use smartphones intelligently. Meta products and Tik Tok are poison for the mind. And unless you're at home it's a good idea to just shut the smartphone off.

ProllyInfamous6• 9 months ago

I'm the only middle-aged person I know that doesn't use/carry a smart phone (I also don't use email).

One of my relatives attempted suicide when she was very young, you can guess why.

This misses that even more young ladies are attempting, today, albeit for entirely different reasons. I'll let you guess why.

fsiefken2• 9 months ago

If you don't use e-mail, what do you use for electronic one to one communication or do you write letters and sent them by post?

Desafinado3• 9 months ago

It's not a competition between eras to see which is worse, my point is only that smartphones fill a need for isolated adults. That can be true and they can still pose a problem for teenagers, it's two separate issues.

I find most of the debate on smartphone use tends to fall on the extreme. Why not find a happy middle ground and recognize that they do have valid uses?

erxam2• 9 months ago

The opposing viewpoint is that smartphones do fill a need of the modern world, and that is that most people have been separated from their families due to the logistics of finding paying work.

I agree. Tech-minimalists seem to forget that not everybody lives in some heavenly small mountain-side commune.

The article says a lot of things about being 'present', 'mindful', 'nurturing relationships' and 'enjoying the world'.

I don't want to be present. In fact, I want the complete opposite. I want to be literally anywhere else 99.99% of the time.

If I look at my phone and get to look at nice things, talk to incredible people and imagine lots of wish-fulfillment scenarios, I can pretend for a while that not everything is absolute dogshit 24/7.

What am I supposed to enjoy, exactly?

homebrewer2• 9 months ago

Yep, same. For those of us living in heavily polluted industrial shitholes, in undeveloped countries, with absolutely nothing of value to do outside and no easy way to get out of the city in a reasonable amount of time, the internet is an absolute godsend. I'm pretty sure I would be an alcoholic, or wouldn't be alive at all if it wasn't available.

nunodonato4• 9 months ago

Thanks for bringing this up, it's a great alternative POV.

I think what is meant is that if the phone is acting not only as an "escape" but also as a way of avoiding dealing with things or even changing them, then it is, in fact, harming you from the possibility of improving your condition.

Not for me to judge who is in that position or not, but I would definitely say many people use it as an avoidance rather than having to deal with hard stuff. Change is hard, always was, even before phones.

Playing the victim card is always easier: my life sucks, there's nothing I can do, at least my phone keeps me happier. In many cases, there is always something you can do if you are willing to put the effort. But then again, not for me to judge. Some people are in really tough places.

everdrive• 9 months ago

Smart phones are the best and the worst glued together. None of the past solutions came with a crack dealer nudging you to ruin your life and waste your time every few seconds.

kakacik2• 9 months ago

While completely believing what you write, hasn't it ever occured to you to try to change those things for the better? Using such a sleazy device as a phone to escape reality around you is... bad on many levels you surely are well aware of.

Its easier than ever before to move away regardless where you are, change jobs, reinvent yourself, to form relationships (I know this is much deeper topic but tools for meeting people are really ubiquous, and the rest is just a number game and some self-improvement effort), and at least do your damnest to (re)define rest of your life. Yesterday was the best time, today is second best.

What am I supposed to enjoy, exactly?

I've spent recently 2 weeks backpacking around some pretty remote parts of Indonesia. Cheap trip, most of the cost were tickets, the rest were just coral/wreck dives. The only westerners I've met (and there were relatively many) have all exactly same bug as me - its absolutely stunning and life-redefining experience. Its not easy or pleasant some times (since you go deep into 3rd world countries with only basic infrastructure, even phone signal can be rare, internet much more so), and properly amazing at others, and the only thing you think of when coming back is how and when to do it again, more, more remote.

One of many suggestions how to make one's life much better and give it some proper motivation. Plus as said it changes you for the better, this I can guarantee 100%. There is tons of beauty in the world, just ignore the noise, politics, and people and companies gaming you for your data making humanity worse off one step at a time.

kakacik2• 9 months ago

The most addicted family-as-a-whole to the screens I know of live literally 100m from each other (3 generations). Suffice to say this is far from their only addiction. What you describe is certainly true for some people, but I am having hard time believing this is majority. I live long term far away from family and an occasional whatsapp video call is covering our digital meeting needs.

Most people are simply too weak mentally to resist various self-forming addictions and don't care about these topics at all.

Desafinado3• 9 months ago

It isn't so much about the smartphone replacing family as it is about phones giving us something to do in our homes in lieu of the presence of other people.

Even a family that lives close to each other is separated in space by different homes and will often find themselves alone. But their situation will be much better than someone with no family around. They have the option to see each other, many don't.

I think the more detailed point is that we're largely atomized these days into separate physical spaces where we're often alone, or confined to a small number of people. Smartphones and computers make it a hell of a lot easier to break through that problem.

eimrine8• 9 months ago

Why disabling youtube recommendation? It is literally the only recommendation engine that works, just don't watch shite (at least from your account) and you will never be recommended of that. Other smartphone services are irrepairely wrong, but youtube is a search engine for what you dream. Everything you are searching in google or mentioning somewhere on youtube forum will be added to your "interests". Regular search is broken but the recommendation "search" is the best service I ever had, it is like an oldschool librarian who knows what book will interest you.

platevoltage• 9 months ago

I concur. The YouTube algorithm actually appears to work, and doesn't feel like it's trying to steer me away from my interests. My only issue is that it will suggest "current event" type content that is years old sometimes.

eimrine8• 9 months ago

Youtube does that for some channels or persons which are so favorable for me that I use to watch all of their videos.

My recommendation about human interests and yt consuming is not to close yourself in your shell, but actively explore what are there any interesting. I become cold turkey to any other recommendation services since I have unleashed the power of Yt.

zamadatix2• 9 months ago

Spend every day for a year watching the highest quality YouTube content and it won't get you as far as spending every day for a month directly engaging with content yourself, or some other use of the same time. It's fun, engaging, and easy enough to turn into something you can argue "but it's not slop, it's <x>!". At the end of the day though... it's still 95% entertainment.

I spend a lot of time "protecting" my YouTube recommendations (clearing garbage videos from my history, blocking certain channels, opening links from friends separately) but I still try to immensely limit the amount of time I spend on the site, and the recommendations go directly against that.

eimrine8• 9 months ago

You still seing it wrong. Youtube is the best radio possible, it never disappoints me while my outdoor activity. There are no reason to "watch" 99% of hours of content, nothing is interesting in seing talking heads.

Negative measures such as clearing history, putting dislikes and using "not recommend" just doesn't work because from my experience the only negative metrics which works is just refusing to watch shite. Youtube actively uses spaced repetition approach so consider any time you are being recommended to shite as active shaping your recommendation engine. Don't even touch that square with the cursor. Try teaching your recommendation blackbox in positive ways - watch some channels when you are not watching and listening, subscribe to small channels, write comments with no less than 8 words and actively use such nouns which you are welcome to be recommended to.

Liquix• 9 months ago

because it flips the content consumption model on its head. instead of "i want to watch a video about X" -> search for video about X -> watch, the loop becomes open youtube -> see interesting recommendation -> watch. you are no longer using youtube as a tool to consume videos, it is using you, increasing time spent on the site/app and therefore generating more ad revenue.

eimrine8• 9 months ago

How youtube can use me if I spend all my time outdoors and yt is just a radio? There are some ways to see it without ads even wihout deepening the profile with the credit card.

My point is that there is no better software to get acknowledged about the different Xs than yt. My point is to go cold turkey about any other recqmmendation services because they can not serve my interests when I work with my hands, or walking, or driving. I have listened some 3.5 hours podcast about Math and I am sure there is no other way to consume such a podcasts other way than I recommend here.

bitbuilder• 9 months ago

I believe the point he was trying to make is that he doesn't want to be recommended things he wants to watch. He wants his YouTube use to be be focused and intentional, and not let himself get sucked into an endless stream of engaging content.

eimrine8• 9 months ago

And my point is that your words is about any other recommendation engine. Youtube is very different, there is no better information source to shape oneself what is really good to be interested in. Except of maybe book search websites.

ProllyInfamous6• 9 months ago

This is why I often use/watch via http://www.ytch.tv (hn/u).

Check out Channels 1/6/7/25/35/40

toofy• 9 months ago

It is literally the only recommendation engine that works.

do you really find this to be true? i find it’s incredibly wrong like 90+ percent of the time. i am not close to interested in most of its recs. i’ve tried for years to tell it what i like and its just wrong so often. i’ve even tried entirely new accounts.

i mean, sure every once in a while im like “whoa, that’s a great rec” but thats pretty rare. it’s definitely better than spotify and the like etc… they’re wrong almost always, but a miss rate of more than 9 times out of 10 is so bad.

recommendations from people is so much more accurate.

when i get a music recommendation from someone who works at the record store the positive hit rate is so high, same with movies and music recommendations from friends, etc… if it works for you that’s great but my feed is overflowing with video after video where i’m like “why in tf do you think i’d want to watch this?”

the_af4• 9 months ago

I'd say YT recommendations are more than 90% right for me. It almost always recommends me stuff I'm interested in, related to things I've watched. It seems to have the best recommendation engine of all the social media I use, hands down.

I just have to be careful, when I watch something I don't want YT to think I liked, to remove it from my watch history.

eimrine8• 9 months ago

when i get a music recommendation from someone who works at the record store the positive hit rate is so high, same with movies and music recommendations from friends, etc…

That tells me you are a simple person so yt gives you a simple recommendations. Music content in yt is poor, your music taste can be improved in different places. Movies are just a stupid time consuming, if you like to watch them, why to complain about bad recommendations?

recommendations from people is so much more accurate.

You are happy to have well-educated friends probably.

a miss rate of more than 9 times out of 10 is so bad.

For me its top 10 slots are 100% about the persons I appreciate, so to get to the point is time when 9 of 10 are bad I need to watch everything what the persons have published for the time I have been offline. 90%/10% is just the usual Pareto, it's ok.

i’ve tried for years to tell it what i like and its just wrong so often

It doesn't take years. Just open all youtube links featured on HN and start playing those from your account without even seing/listening. You will see the changes immediately. Next step is to just stop watching any channel with 1M subs and any videos with 1M watches. Soon yt will ask you in some modal window: do you want to see the content from the smaller channels? Press the "yes" answer and you will unleash the real power of yt without clickbait headers, with no arrows on previews etc. Join small channels and treat them like Reddit subforums. This totally works for me, I participate in more discussions on yt than on HN.

will-burner• 9 months ago

The advice about deleting youtube history and setting and auto-delete cadence (though every 3 months looked like the most frequent possibility for me) is good and I wasn't aware of it. I don't have social media, but I do have a personal gmail email address, which links to youtube making it hard to avoid spending time on my phone watching youtube videos.

Void_• 9 months ago

I've been running dumbified version of iOS for a few months now, and I'm very happy with it.

I removed every 'fun' app except for a few exceptions:

- ChatGPT, but mostly in voice mode, and with other people - as a party trick.

- Whisper Memos (https://whispermemos.com/), I record voice memos and they end up in my email, so I can continue with that idea when I'm on a computer (whether that is a prompt for AI, or a todo.)

- Bevel (https://www.bevel.health/), to track sleep factors, such as whether I wore a nasal strip

- Overcast (https://overcast.fm/), for playing podcasts.

- Liftosaur (http://liftosaur.com/), for tracking gym

- Basics like Banking, EV charging, Maps, Parking, Messages, Weather, Authenticator, Reminders, etc.

I removed App Store as well as Safari, so these apps is all I can do on my iPhone.

In the beginning, I set up a Screen Time code so I wouldn't be able to cheat. But in a few weeks I got used to it. So App Store and Safari are enabled again, but I never use them. (Maybe Safari is disabled. I have no idea to be honest.)

The biggest downside is I never know where my phone is. However, I'll gladly accept this downside.

xg15• 9 months ago

If we assume people sleep roughly 8 hours per day

I'd strongly question that assumption. Based on what I've heard from friends (and also personal experience), I think there is quite a large number if people who spend too much time on the phone, but also still want to do activities/work on projects, etc - all in addition to work, family life and chores.

The result is that the time is taken from the activity that appears most "compressible" at first glance, which is sleep.

indoordin0saur• 9 months ago

When I got in the habit of putting my phone in a KitchenSafe at 9:30PM every night my sleep (according to my watch sleep tracker) increased by a full hour. From 10:30 I'd get into bed and peruse Reddit or Twitter on my phone, often past midnight. Now I just read a book for 30 minutes until I'm too tired and doze off.

pessimizer2• 9 months ago

Now I just read a book for 30 minutes until I'm too tired and doze off.

Hard books are the real soma: I have all these books that I want to read because I want to understand and know what's in them, but there are so many charts, graphs, maps, equations and simply complex-ass thoughts that they're hell to get through during leisure time without waking up falling out of your chair.

That's perfect night table insomnia reading. Either they put you to sleep just by a couple glances at the page you left off at; or you in fact have real insomnia, and that's going to be your wings to get you through them. Added bonus: sometimes you fall asleep and have complex dreams, and understanding that argument ends up like when you're debugging in your sleep.

anteloper• 9 months ago

Great article, I'm a cofounder of Clearspace and think about this a lot.

I'm an adult, I know how to circumvent these limits, and I will if motivation is low.

It's impossible to build systems that perfectly prevent you from doing this, but it is possible to build systems that can perfectly deter you from doing it. You could set up one - for example - that texts your spouse if you delete it. Or charges your bank account. Or whatever other doomsday device you want to rig up.

Time limits don't affect the underlying addiction. You don't quit smoking by only smoking certain hours of the day.

Yeah but if you could encode cigarettes to ween you off of them by force, that'd be a big help. Also cigarettes don't have any real utility, so cold turkey is a reasonable strategy. Unfortunately the social media platforms have real utility, so a guardrail strategy makes more sense.

The companies that build these apps have tens of thousands of really smart people (and billions of dollars) trying to get me hooked and keep me engaged. The only way to win this game isn't by trying to beat them (I certainly can't), but by not playing.

When it's all said and done, someone is going to build the right set of digital environment modification tooling that does beat them. It has to be possible, the internet is intrinsically customizable

lencastre• 9 months ago

the cable company asked me to accept their generous 50pct monthly discount provided I would not cancel the subscription service but I said I am trying to watch less tv, and that was that

asdff2• 9 months ago

Another tip for getting more out of youtube, is if your topic of interest is potentially not dependent on current events, you get higher signal to noise ratio searching for videos from 10+ years ago exclusively. Earlier the better.

Youtube was so much better when you didn't see the uploaders face and there wasn't incentive to pad video duration.

aloer2• 9 months ago

I recently tried to put my phone into black & white mode via iPhone accessibility shortcut (triple click on power button)

This did not seem to work for me. I would forget about it and after a while just left it on color.

Now I use a shortcut on the action button. By default my iPhone is black and white, pressing the action button gives me color for two minutes.

The crucial step is that after this time it is automatically switching back to black and white. Even when the phone is locked.

This now seems to actually help. And as a side effect I also enjoy looking at a few things in black and white. A new experience.

All these great ideas for how to prevent you from doing something, they all need to allow me to bypass it when I want to, but they also need to automatically switch back to the “locked” mode.

This needs to be seamless so that the “yes I am sure I want to read this” bypass does not become a new, meaningless habit.

What is also interesting is that apparently, for me, a hard lock-out, a hard disable, is not good enough. Instead, reducing the joy (black & white filter) seems to work much better and does not motivate me to work around the restriction.

I doubt I would be happy with a dumb phone either. So this is a good middle ground.

One other thing I’ve always hoped to see is a kind of scheduled check in with me, where I am asked / reminded to get out of my Netflix / Reddit / YouTube tunnel vision.

Hardware and software to do that is tricky. iOS locked down too much.

But there are today quite capable and cheap Esp32 based smart watches (~$25) and I am trying to figure out how to integrate one of these into my life purely for tunnelvision-interrupting “are you really sure you want to do this right now?” notifications.

I feel privileged to have had a childhood before smartphones. At least I can remember how we used to be.

All of these measures are not because of how it is today but because I am afraid of where we will be a few years from now. Endlessly engaging generated AI content.

Better try to build some boundaries while I still can.

getpokedagain• 9 months ago

I may be on the outside here but I am all for using the phone or any more mobile computer. Humans are not designed to sit at desks all day and having a good computer with me all day is something I want. Its just that I want it to read books and take notes or sketch to free my mind. Not slurp down rage bait wrapped up with some shop at target. Supporting computers by inviting in the marketing money was a big fuckup.

lrvick2• 9 months ago

In the 5 years since giving up a smartphone I started a new generation Linux Distro from 0, started a security consulting company, made hires, traveled the world, and learned several completely new skills, while having a fairly active family and social life.

Having so much more time to do actually useful things means I am present when relaxing, and focused when working, and get a lot more out of both portions of my life.

Anyone telling you that you need a smartphone to survive in the modern world is an apologist gaslighting you. Use cash, and offline tablet or nothing at all, and be digitally invisible and 100% present in the real world.

AxEy• 9 months ago

"Use cash, and offline tablet or nothing at all,"

Why would I have to use cash if I gave up my smartphone?

lrvick2• 9 months ago

Well at the point you give up your phone you are already inches away from having near zero location data brokers can purchase, if you also use cash.

Pretty great privacy win on top of the mental health wins.

carabiner• 9 months ago

13 Oct, 2025

Ugh. D M Y date format does not use a comma.

tolerance• 9 months ago

I hate this, I think to myself as I lay on the couch and then type what I think onto the keys of my mobile phone’s screen.

It’s not that I hate how the author feels or what he thinks. I hate that he feels he has to think all of this and that the phone is that great an impediment. I hate that I feel like the same way as him and that he’s expressing it so clear. I’m projecting.

This is all so dumb. They’re just phones for crying out loud. We should all be ashamed of ourselves. I’ve been putting salt on top of boredom to make time taste better. What have I done.

higgins• 9 months ago

there is video playing in every house i visit

littlecranky67• 9 months ago

I'm an adult, I know how to circumvent these limits, and I will if motivation is low.

That point can be easily fixed as there are various online timelock services where you can put in your security code or password that will not reveal it to you within a certain timeframe [0][1].

[0] https://lockmeout.online/ [1]: https://password-locker.com/

sgt3• 9 months ago

30 minutes per day on your iPhone each day is insane. I spend 2.5 hrs according to my phone, and that's about 50% necessity and 50% nonsense like Twitter.

netdevphoenix• 9 months ago

Surprised that no one else has highlighted this. In 2025, this is an outlier worth talking about

basisword5• 9 months ago

It's especially amazing because it's so easy to fuck up. Read a few articles on the web. Scroll social media on a lunch break. Watch a video or two on YouTube. Listen to some music. Take care of some banking stuff. Suddenly you're at an hour or two and you've barely noticed. To keep it to 30mins you have to be so intentional.

zevon2• 9 months ago

May I ask what you do that requires doing it on the phone?

If "necessity" means work-related: On my work-issued iPhone, I call and (briefly) text with people, triage some e-mail, have a look at calendars, take some in-situ photo/video, refer to a few notes, and so on. I don't have the screen time feature turned on but I guess I'm also below 30 minutes on that phone on most days. The exception being traditional voice calls which occasionally can go on for (much) longer than those 30 minutes, depending on what's happening. However, most of my more regular, scheduled conversations happen in real-life or in Zoom, Webex or other such platforms and not on a mobile phone.

The only work-related thing that I can think of OTOH which really required me to use a mobile device is hardware that requires an app to work (which is fortunately still rare).

sgt3• 9 months ago

Basically anything work related (mostly checking email, calendar, Slack, JIRA, etc) that happens when I am not near my computer. Like a lot of people in IT, we're always "at work".

Perenti• 9 months ago

I use my phone on average 5m per week. This week is bigger, due to lots of medical things. I've spent 3m on it today as of 6pm.

No social media. No videos. No Music. I don't click on links in texts except the one that will show me where my taxi is.

At restaurants people around me sit together with food going cold on plates whilst staring at their phones. People walk around and into me whilst staring at their phones. I saw someone nearly step on a nesting Bush Stone Curlew, despite the protests from the bird's mate, because they were staring at their phone.

I do not believe we are cognitively capable of dealing with interruptions that demand our attention every 30 seconds. I know that despite a long list of life threatening illnesses I am the least anxious person I know, and I think that everyone else is stressing because they are staring at their phone.

* Anecdote, one person's experience. YMMV

ErigmolCt5• 9 months ago

That algorithm is like a friend who never shuts up but somehow always knows your guilty pleasures

karel-3d• 9 months ago

I spend two hours per day commuting in a subway.

If I am "being present" I will just stare at a ground. (Or read a book, but how is that more present?)

I'm good.

nunodonato4• 9 months ago

at least when you are reading a book, you are getting far more interesting uses of your brain (if it's a good book), compared to mindless scrolling

UnreachableCode• 9 months ago

https://untrap.app/ for YouTube customisation has been a lifesaver for me. It can even be added to Safari as an extension, for £2.99.

Also UBlock Origin for blocking specific elements on the screen is a lifesaver for reading articles or tutorials.

maelito2• 9 months ago

I want a small Android phone. I know this won't solve my addiction, but it will reduce it.

1stub2• 9 months ago

You might be interested in looking into an android phone with an eink screen - I find it to be a good deal less stimulating. I think a lot of people use the boox palma.

maelito2• 9 months ago

Yes but AFAIK all are Chinese, from Hibreak... a surveillance state.

famahar• 9 months ago

I have an Xperia X Compact phone that I bought in a used shop in Japan for $50. I think you can buy it online too. It's pretty small, runs kinda slow so I don't use any demanding apps. Mostly just use it for directions, studying flashcards, and messaging people. It's sad they don't make phones this small anymore.

zevon2• 9 months ago

Interesting blog post. A few thoughts on smartphones, presence and whatnot:

- I've lusted over the fantasy of having a pocket knowledge machine / tricorder-like thing since long before PDAs and later smartphones. Okay, still no full tricorder, but boy, are smartphones ever useful. I really like having a pocket GPS, music/audiobook player, translation device, library, basic sensor package, gaming machine, backup for my most important data, password/document manager and general purpose computing device in my pocket.

- I was a child before the web was a thing but I very much grew up on computers and the web and I have seen and/or experienced all sorts of addictive, gamified and otherwise nasty things those technologies brought with it (or enabled). I'm rather happy to have a bit of context from a time before those technologies and I'm also happy about having grown out of most of my computer-related bad habits and behaviours before the web and those technologies were what they are today.

- I made a decision to get off most social media with the exception of a few forum-like things at the point where I felt that it was no longer mostly about expanding real-world connections. Must have been around 10-12 years ago, I think.

- In my personal definition of "social media", I've included most messengers and certainly the way many people seem to use them. This abstinence can cause quite a bit of social friction and peer-pressure and I'm not entirely sure if I could (or would want to) "resist" had I not first grown up without any messenger and later with (occasionally excessive use of) IRC, ICQ and many that came after.

- If I feel the need to publish something, I'll do it via some long-term channel (blog, newspaper, journal, conference, ...).

- Even without being on social media, it's still relatively easy to keep up with current (app-/web-)culture enough to not get laughed out the room or viewed as a hopeless old fart by younger people (which is important to me because I work with them pretty much daily).

- Even without being on social media, it's still quite easy to keep up with the news and important developments in whatever field might interest you.

- Often, I read "my government / bank / other organization made me have an app / a smartphone". In those cases, I often ask myself it it's a matter of convenience or if those voices come from some context that really does not have any other options. Because I really hope there are no countries where you can't get/use any bank account without an app and I even more sincerely hope that most countries make it illegal to require mobile apps (or even internet access) for any important government service as the only option.

ge96• 9 months ago

I think best thing I did with my phone is turning sound off, it doesn't make sound except my alarm, it doesn't vibrate either. Granted I don't have kids/don't work in a place that has on-call.

For computer I'm almost 100% on there all the time whether at work or at home, I can't handle silence. The present thing is funny, when the internet goes out I'm in the present like oh man what do I do.

I think going out and being in nature is good for being present. Watching the ocean/large body of water, huge field, being in a forest, etc...

It is funny how your mind operates where you're always in some state, it's 9 AM I gotta be at work, it's this time I have to do this next... that's what I aim for is not huge wealth (although that'd be nice stealth anyway) but freedom with my own time. Right now from dumb choices I'm burdened with debt so my main reason to continue living is just working to pay bills. Not saying that in a bad way I just realized that, trying to get passion back in something. And my cat gotta care for him.

1stub2• 9 months ago

I have found vast improvements on my mood and focus by not bringing my phone with me to classes and work. Not checking it in the mornings (analog alarm clock!) or during the day has significantly improved my focus and how deep I go while working. And I just feel better. Not being bogged down by whatever is going on in the digital world while I am trying to churn as many good thoughts out of my brain is really quite freeing.

samcat116• 9 months ago

Related but if you want a less algorithmic YouTube experience, I'd recommend the Play app on Apple platforms. It uses each channels RSS feed to rebuild YouTube in a much nicer and less distracting native app.

Unlike a lot of people on this site I really enjoy the YouTube algorithm to discovery new topics/videos, but it can definitely become a rabbit hole.

nicbou• 9 months ago

A few things that made a noticeable difference for me:

- A do not disturb mode that is noticeable: no wallpaper, no clock (black on black), no notifications, battery saving mode. If I'm around others, my phone is in that mode.

- No social media apps, and stay logged out of the mobile website. Don't remember the password.

- No email app. I thought it would be a problem, but I've been logged out of Gmail for over a month. I forget to check email. It's great!

- A wrist watch. Get the time, not the notifications.

- Something to keep busy, but only for medium periods. I like reading articles queued in Instapaper.

- Ad block rules and other delays for the things you really struggle to stop doing.

- Ad block rules to remove the distracting elements of websites you must use. Remove the feeds wherever you can, or redirect the feed page to the notifications page.

- Turn off ad blocking. I never use the internet on my iPad because the unfiltered internet is unbearable. I see a cookie banner I can't skip and it takes me right out of it.

- Keep your phone in your backpack or in a separate room.

- Paper books

pr3dr49• 9 months ago

I am still trying to turn the clock and read books (on paper), at least before bed. Decrement the screen. I must be lazy. Going back to the screen to do nothing is so much easier.

codyb3• 9 months ago

I keep my phones in the other room on silent all day, don't use anything with an algorithmic infinite feed, don't use social media, and blocked all the news websites I could.

It's amazing to me how many people can't seem to walk down the street these days without staring at their phones the entire time.

I think they're addictive, bad for your mental health and acuity, and bad for society. And it's amazing how much time I'll spend even just checking the two small hobby discords I'm in just cause I've been so tuned towards picking up the phone when bored.

Leaving it in the other room on a speaker is nice cause it at least forces me to get up, and since I keep it on the speaker I don't often sit with it anymore. Which means I do other stuff like read, and clean, and work on things, or just sit and stare at the wall and let my brain breathe.

I still use maps (without location though), check out which helicopters and ships I'm looking at, weather, email, search, and Spanish flashcards through Anki. Which I think are nice activities.

doctorpangloss• 9 months ago

Ha ha, what is Hacker News?

codyb3• 9 months ago

Yea, I check Hacker News most days once or twice.

On my work computer only. There's a fair amount of professional relevance. I don't think I've clicked the "next page" button in a decade though.

So that sits firmly in the "healthy" category for me.

turrican2• 9 months ago

What deck are you using? I’ve been wanting to supplement my Spanish learning with an Anki deck for a while now.

codyb3• 9 months ago

I've been using two decks, adding 20 new cards a day.

https://ankiweb.net/shared/info/1631165043 - This is 5000 common Spanish words. Be warned, the pictures appear to have been pulled by some sort of automated process and some are risque. That being said, I learn words and then see or hear them fairly quickly while watching baseball en español, o leyendo las noticias o los librose.

https://ankiweb.net/shared/info/638411848 - Spanish conjugation. Super hard at first, especially since it starts with the most unique verbs. But patterns emerge, and incredibly useful.

Those two are the only... "formal" work if you can call it that that I'm doing. The rest is writing to friends and notes at work, watching baseball and tv (and with subtitles and audio where possible), reading the news sometimes (still difficult, but has added benefit that I read less news), setting interfaces to Spanish.

My Spanish is really coming along at this point, and it's very cool. Wishing you good luck in your endeavor!! The most important thing is to just stick with it.

tom89999• 9 months ago

Switch the fucking thing off. You are not that important. Things can wait. The world turned many revolutions without such a thing. You dont profit, your boss and companies do, you pay with your health, money and more. Your kids dont get smarter, you spawn even dumber kids in the future.

FigurativeVoid• 9 months ago

I have a distinct moment in my memory of when I stopped being a voracious reader, and started spending more time online: when I got an iPod touch.

To reverse the trend, I’m trying to read physical books or ebooks on a dedicated ereader as much as possible. No one seems to care, they are on their phones.

When I do use social media, I try to use a computer where I have much more control over what’s happening. So far I’ve read a ton more books this year.

Aerbil3132• 9 months ago

I agree with the author, but can’t agree with his stance that self-restricting is not effective. I use tools like Screen Time heavily with a setup that is not bypassable on a weak moment (I don’t know the PIN).

Nowadays when waiting for something I might take my iPhone 15 Pro out of my pocket and unlock its boring-ass greyscale screen. There are no new notifications from any apps whatsoever, because I keep my phone on Do Not Disturb all the time.

I’ll first peek over the Mail app: no red notification badge. Still, I’ll sometimes compulsively open it and check my inbox. There is no new mail, there is almost never any new mail aside from Google sign-in notifications. (I unsubscribed from all marketing emails).

Then I might check WhatsApp. Nobody important texted me. If they did I’d receive a notification. I didn’t receive a notification in the past few hours. There are no infinite content feeds on my phone. Even my web browser only allows a specified set of websites.

Sometimes when waiting for something, and if I ran out of books I pre-downloaded for free from Internet Archive, I’ll open the Maps app and go all around Antarctica trying to find scientific bases. It can be kinda fun. Especially when you don’t have any social media or unrestricted internet on your phone.

I have ADHD.

Before implementing Screen Time restrictions on my phone, I was glued to the screen all day and night long. These restrictions were the difference between functioning and not.

andrewrn• 9 months ago

I find that I don’t mindlessly scroll on my desktop, so it’s not a panacea, but the newsfeed eradicator is useful for removing recommendation feeds from a desktop browser: https://chromewebstore.google.com/detail/news-feed-eradicato....

Also, here’s a (mostly just for fun) project I did related to this: https://github.com/andrew-noble/doomscroll-detector

sjw9874• 9 months ago

I feel like these articles come up all the time now. The advice is always the same (it's not rocket science), but people are either slowly defeated by their addiction, or they just don't really follow the advice in the first place.

Media (not phone or computer) addiction is the socially acceptable addiction of our time, just like alcohol formerly was. Most of this consumption is completely pointless, depressive and degrades your mental ability to stave off boredom and be creative. So many current problems in the world are caused (alongside inequality and many other causes) with our society-wide acceptance of this media addiction.

Right now, my colleague opposite me is using their phone to dick around on Facebook. They will spend 1 hour to 1.5 hours on it at work today (equivalent to 12% of their salary), with it sat there vibrating on the table every 3 minutes (you need 25 minutes of uninterrupted concentration to get into a flow state). You can see the Pavlov dog mechanism kick in every time it vibrates. This colleague makes tons of mistakes, distracts me and others, and this is deemed acceptable because everybody is in the same position.

It is wild to me that media technology companies achieve the valuations that they do, and only makes sense in a world where a huge portion of the population are hopelessly addicted.

Phones and computers are not the issue. You can have a smartphone, never install social media on it, untick all the notifications, put it in monochrome mode, and lock it down completely. That's how my phone is, and I spend on average less than 10 minutes per day using it.

People need to change their approach to boredom. If you're waiting in a queue, walking somewhere or on public transport, you need to find a way to fill that boredom without using the easy option. That easy option hooks you in, and before you know it you spend 4 hours a day on a phone. Just daydream, think about a project or an idea in your head. It's good for your brain.

If you want to try my phone setup:

- Android phone

- Permanently in monochrome mode, black wallpaper, white icons, minimalistic launcher (app drawer only)

- Zero social media, games, media apps. For hardcore dopamine resistance, uninstall music and podcasts as well. Boredom can be a good thing, and you don't need to fill your day with constant dopamine hits

- Disable built-in versions (like YouTube) in settings. Turn off Google discovery if you use that app

- All notifications disabled except communication (phone, email, message)

- For communication, unsubscribe from any non-urgent emails as soon as you receive them

- Bedtime mode, starting and ending at least 1 hour either side of sleep. Don't use your phone in the first or last hour of the day at all (you won't be using it at this point)

With this setup you get the benefit of a smartphone (useful utilities like maps, translation, web searches, digital tickets), without any further reason to check it. I don't really believe in the idea of going for a dumb (feature) phone because you lose useful utilities.

If you try and persist with this sort of setup for a month, even if you begin giving in after this point, you'll remember how much better things were and that will always provide an easy way back into it should the habit lapse.

Computers are tools for us to do things our brains aren't capable of. They are not things to hijack our lives, otherwise we may as well be simulations.

Not sure what the economic impact would be if everybody left social media, video games, and YouTube en masse tomorrow, considering how much growth the US (and therefore world) economy has seen from a handful of companies that provide the digital drugs.

Smartphones and being present

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