Jake Seliger has died

https://marginalrevolution.com/marginalrevolution/2024/08/jake-seliger-is-dead.html

by A_D_E_P_T • 2 years ago

960 183 2 years ago

marginalrevolution.com

A_D_E_P_T• 2 years ago

Confirmed by his brother on his GoFundMe: https://www.gofundme.com/f/help-the-fight-against-cancer-wit...

May he rest in peace.

thaumasiotes• 2 years ago

Thanks for the link.

Bizarrely, the post on Marginal Revolution links to a post from 5 days ago, and it's easy to confirm that Jake was still alive when that post was published. (And, apparently, for almost a week afterwards.) The gofundme appears to be the only source that states he's died, and the MR report doesn't even mention it. (Other than to include a link to it in a quote from someone else.)

NhanH• 2 years ago

Jake's writing was on hacker news 4 days ago and he was still replying to the comment at the time: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=41157974

Rest in Peace, Jake.

sgseliger2• 2 years ago

This is his brother. He passed away around 8:30pm on Wednesday. He was still reading, writing, hearing from loved ones up until the end.

canucker20165• 2 years ago

His brother also posted a comment, https://jakeseliger.com/2024/08/04/starting-hospice-the-end/... , about his brother's death - slightly different wording than the GoFundMe update.

aestetix• 2 years ago

Fuck cancer :(

bigstrat2003• 2 years ago

Indeed. I had never even heard of Jake before the post a few days ago about him going into hospice, so I had no personal attachment to the guy. But even so, reading about what he and his loved ones went through struck me as brutally unfair. Nobody should have to suffer (or watch someone they love suffer) like he did. Not just the disease itself but the extreme measures he had to go through just to try to keep it at bay. May he rest in peace.

michaelsbradley• 2 years ago

Within each form of suffering endured by man, and at the same time at the basis of the whole world of suffering, there inevitably arises the question: why? It is a question about the cause, the reason, and equally, about the purpose of suffering, and, in brief, a question about its meaning. Not only does it accompany human suffering, but it seems even to determine its human content, what makes suffering precisely human suffering.

It is obvious that pain, especially physical pain, is widespread in the animal world. But only the suffering human being knows that he is suffering and wonders why; and he suffers in a humanly speaking still deeper way if he does not find a satisfactory answer. This is a difficult question, just as is a question closely akin to it, the question of evil. Why does evil exist? Why is there evil in the world? When we put the question in this way, we are always, at least to a certain extent, asking a question about suffering too.

https://www.vatican.va/content/john-paul-ii/en/apost_letters...

cancerboi2• 2 years ago

It ain't fun!

vinnyvichy5• 2 years ago

Jake's wife on FDA deregulation

https://bessstillman.substack.com/p/the-drugs-killing-dying-...

blackeyeblitzar3• 2 years ago

Thanks - it’s so helpful for them to have documented this for us to understand a very complex and opaque process. All while they were under extreme stress.

fatnoah3• 2 years ago

I've experienced this from both sides. First with my father who was dying of cancer and was informed that while some promising treatments were in trials, he was not eligible. Balancing potential harm from unapproved drugs vs. certain death within 12 months feels like an easy task.

On the other side, my wife worked for a mid-sized pharma in the past. After several rounds of trials that each cost tens of millions of dollars, the FDA couldn't be convinced to approve the drug, despite hearings full of people who were either alive because the drug saved their lives or were hoping to have it approved for future use. After a couple more trials, the company ended up cutting losses and moving on to something else. Again, it feels like there should be some pathway here. Such a drug shouldn't be the first option if others are available, but if there's nothing else or other treatments haven't worked, what's the real harm in letting someone who's going to die anyway give it a shot.

newzisforsukas• 2 years ago

What was the drug?

llamaimperative6• 2 years ago

Part of the harm is in people no longer trusting drugs. We're very fortunate to be able to get prescribed a drug and have certainty the risk-reward tradeoffs have been evaluated to extreme depth by experts far more equipped than we are.

bena3• 2 years ago

This is a complicated subject.

Because those rules are in place for reasons. And some of those reasons are to prevent drug companies from turning the poor into lab rats with no regard to their safety. And I guarantee you, you let "terminal" patients skirt rules, there will be a hell of a lot more "terminal" patients.

And I'm sure there are some non-regulation reasons to limit various therapies. They are trying to see if thing X can help. And if thing X only helps when combined with thing Y, you don't exactly get that information when focusing on thing X. Or the worse scenarios of thing Y making thing X ineffective or harmful.

This was written from a very emotional place, and understandably so. But that state means they are not exactly in a position to consider all the reasons. And it must be frustrating as hell to have tried 40 things that didn't work to only be denied the 41st because you tried too many other things. Especially if that 41st thing turns out to be something that works.

But I don't think the answer is let terminal patients take whatever they feel like.

Zak2• 2 years ago

But I don't think the answer is let terminal patients take whatever they feel like.

I don't think anyone has the moral authority to tell anyone else what they can take, especially terminal patients.

I do, however think governments have a responsibility to regulate how drug companies conduct trials so as to minimize harm to patients. This probably has the same outcome in practice, but I find the moral distinction important.

UniverseHacker• 2 years ago

As someone that works in drug discovery as an academic and has patented drugs, I can tell you that the current process is biased way too far towards safety for optimal life saving outcomes if you look at it in a cold utilitarian way. A lot of lives would be saved by fast-tracking the approval process, despite the fact that there would also be an increase in negative outcomes.

However, it is probably not socially or politically tenable to kill or harm people with experimental drugs even if it saves a greater number of people. Realistically, I don't see things changing much.

I don't think its fair to dismiss this perspective as "written from an emotional place." As Alex Tabarrok wrote above, both Jake and his wife (a medical doctor) were involved with this issue before his diagnosis.

Buttons840• 2 years ago

Some who are terminally ill want to be lab rats. You get one last shot at surviving and, perhaps more importantly, you also get to leave the world a little better by helping advance drug science. I don't think "lab rat" conveys the courage it takes to participate in a clinical trial and the gratitude we should have for them.

throwaway5752• 2 years ago

May Jake rest in peace and may his memory be a blessing to his wife and daughter.

Their views on clinical trials were understandable given the circumstances. Those regulations were written in blood, miscarriage/birth defects, autoimmune conditions, genetic damage, and other horrors. This is a complicated ethical topic because clinical trials can harm patients and families of patients as much as they can help, and sometimes many years after the fact of the trial. It's not an appropriate discussion in a memorial post.

blackeyeblitzar3• 2 years ago

It's not an appropriate discussion in a memorial post.

When else do we discuss it? This is bound to just disappear into history and the government will carry on with business as usual. I feel now’s the time to get people educated and discussing it at depth, when they care about it.

barry-cotter2• 2 years ago

May you be treated as a free man and not the slave you wish others to be treated as.

david_allison• 2 years ago

Rest in peace

kristofferR• 2 years ago

For those who missed the "reference":

"Starting hospice. The end" - 1178 points 4 days ago https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=41157974

ChrisArchitect• 2 years ago

Further related:

How to let go: Jake's life ends as his daughter's begins

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=41174621

onemoresoop• 2 years ago

RIP Jake

kstrauser• 2 years ago

So quickly. He must've been very ill indeed when he came in to say his goodbyes. RIP Jake.

delichon• 2 years ago

It's impressive to me that Jake managed to remain involved and communicative until so near the end. I withdraw into a personal shell when I get so much as a hang nail. Respect.

phone8675309• 2 years ago

As the romantic partner of someone going through a degenerative disorder and as someone who watched my grandmother be consumed by dementia I can say that it's something most people develop over time instead of being born good at.

If a hang nail is bad enough to make you withdraw then that means you don't have a lot of experience of getting sick to the point where you had to push through as it hasn't happened a lot. Over the course of the 14 years I've had with my partner (started year 15 last month!) I've seen how she's had to adapt to remain involved and communicative - and a lot of days, that's a struggle for her that she puts herself through to stay connected to the people she loves.

tl;dr: It's an adaptation, and I'm glad that you've not had to build that adaptation.

painsucks• 2 years ago

Fully agree. I live with cronic pain and people ask me if I'm in pain, I say yes, then they want to stop whatever we're doing and I say no, if I stop living because of this, I have nothing else left but the pain. So yeah, you get used to doing things with it. Some days it's impossible and I indeed do nothing but most days, meh.. Screw it, I have stuff I actually want to do.

dredmorbius10• 2 years ago

If you look at the disease progression and his blogging history, it was a few months before he did open up about the situation.

(He may have discussed it earlier on HN, I haven't gone through his history to check on this.)

Once he began, however, he continued to the bitter end. And yes that is commendable.

danielvaughn• 2 years ago

Reading his post was like a gut punch, and I didn't even know the guy. It breaks your heart to hear someone speak with certainty about their own demise, and to face it with such grace and clarity makes it all the more heart-wrenching. It sounds like he was with his family in his final moments, and I hope he wasn't in much pain. Rest in peace.

CharlieDigital• 2 years ago

I can't remember where I read this, but it's always stuck with me:

    "Healthy is merely the slowest form of dying"

virgoerns• 2 years ago

Your comment reminds me about Polish movie "Life as a Fatal Sexually Transmitted Disease", which is a story of a doctor dying from cancer. Some variations of this title were semi-popular in Poland in early 2000s.

layer8• 2 years ago

About 160,000 people die each day on this planet. It’s probably safe to assume that a good number of them are facing it with grace and clarity. The fact that many aren’t able to, for one reason or another, is maybe more heart-breaking, in a way.

passion__desire• 2 years ago

After reading "A Sister’s Eulogy for Steve Jobs", I felt Steve Jobs was finally happy with the way he lived life.

samstave2• 2 years ago

For some weird reason, I know exactly where I was when Jobs died. (Driving upper market street in SF on a sunny morning)

But Ill never for get what he was claimed to have said as his last words: "Oh.. wow"

kalaksi• 2 years ago

I just relatively recently found his posts through HN. Even though I've only read something like 5-8 posts, I quickly became "attached", for lack of a better word, as I truly enjoyed the writing and openness. It brought me closer to that kind of situation, and the people in it, than I've (yet) ever been. I wish them all the best.

cheez0r• 2 years ago

RIP, Jake. The world is lesser without you.

NaOH• 2 years ago

Mensch

NeutralForest• 2 years ago

RIP, his later articles really echoed some of my personal experiences. Thanks Jake for taking the time to write what many others couldn't.

Spend time with your loved ones.

Bluestein• 2 years ago

A black bar might be in order.-

dyauspitr• 2 years ago

Much as I followed Jake’s story I don’t think it fits. Though I would be for it.

progre• 2 years ago

Niklaus Wirth didn't get one

sctb• 2 years ago

No way that's true. Indeed: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=38864375. It would be good if there was less Black Bar Bikeshedding.

vinnyvichy5• 2 years ago

You were prescient!

s5300• 2 years ago

Terrible day for rain.

I like to think some day his daughter will appreciate getting to go through his HN comments & such.

OuterVale• 2 years ago

I've been following his story for quite a while. I knew this was coming when I opened up Hacker News today; I just had that feeling — not that it made seeing it in type any easier.

He had a way with words that I was impressed to see him cling onto until the very end.

Thanks Jake, you'll be missed.

benopal64• 2 years ago

Rest in peace, Jake.

His blog post recently was moving and eye-opening. If you are in the headspace for tough topics, read it and you won't regret it.

churchill• 2 years ago

RIP, Jake.

aubanel• 2 years ago

Impressive to see the positivity that both him and his wife Bess maintained in their last posts, despite the constant pain and oncoming death. Real strength.

Rest in Peace Jake, and I wish you the best on the path forward Bess!

fnord77• 2 years ago

I've seen about a half dozen articles on his passing from cancer, but none of them say who he is.

Googling his name doesn't help either.

Who is he?

n1b0m• 2 years ago

Based on his LinkedIn profile: a writer, editor and researcher

https://www.linkedin.com/in/jake-seliger-03363819

sgt• 2 years ago

I think the whole story about Jake touched a lot of and in a way it kind of felt like we knew him a bit. I told my wife about him and what his brother and his wife had written, and their circumstances. Now I will tell her tomorrow that the guy died and we will both be sad about it.

slazaro• 2 years ago

He was an active HN user and a writer, he had a very active blog for many years, and he and his wife had been documenting their struggles during his disease; some of those articles were voted high here and had a lot of discussion around them. So in the microcosm of HN, it's relevant news.

RIP Jake.

efilife• 2 years ago

so what was this guy known for? for a blog? for his illness?

whisper_yb• 2 years ago

RIP, Jake.

ChrisMarshallNY2• 2 years ago

Honest question: Does this rate a black bar?

I know that he wasn't a big deal, outside this community, but within HN, his posts were kinda awesome (and heartbreaking).

toomuchtodo2• 2 years ago

Very kind dang, et al., thank you.

dredmorbius10• 2 years ago

Yes, it's since been added.

Email mods for any such requests:

<https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=41203566>

canucker20165• 2 years ago

His karma puts him at #29 on the leaders list - https://news.ycombinator.com/leaders

maxbond• 2 years ago

I've vouched this comment. I believe it was misinterpreted as suggesting there shouldn't be a black bar, which would be flaggable as flame bait. However, the black bar either wasn't there or they hadn't noticed it (it can be hard to see on mobile or if your topcolor is dark), and they were suggesting it should be.

I myself took this impression initially. Posting this in case someone else is confused and tempted to flag.

ChrisMarshallNY2• 2 years ago

Thanks.

At the time I wrote it (and the wording is bad, in hindsight -I probably should have said “Doesn’t”), the bar was definitely not there.

dudus• 2 years ago

What happens to his hacker News account? What about email account, cloud servers, etc ...?

I know Google has a nice tool to share your account after you are gone, as for the rest, I have no plans.

Anyone has good suggestions on managing one's own digital legacy?

Jimpulse• 2 years ago

I believe he briefly talked about that in a post. I think he gave all the account info to his wife.

flobosg• 2 years ago

* Get Your Shit Together – https://getyourshittogether.org/

* What to Do Before You Die: A Tech Checklist – https://archive.is/6vjqQ

* Cheat Sheet For If I’m Gone – https://archive.is/lnWX6 – https://github.com/christophercalm/if-im-gone/blob/main/exam... (HN discussion: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=31748553)

9dev• 2 years ago

@dang I don’t know what the criteria for the black top banner are, but Jake would have earned it, IMHO. I never met him personally, but his writing deeply moved me, and others too, judging from the reactions.

dredmorbius10• 2 years ago

Email such suggestions to mods at hn@ycombinator.com.

"@dang is a no-op": <https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36526450>

(Edit: I've emailed the suggestion, and we now have a black bar.)

pseudolus• 2 years ago

Profound condolences to his family and friends. Reading about his journey was heart-breaking, all the more so knowing that he would never be able to hold or know his daughter.

dredmorbius10• 2 years ago

Jake posted as jseliger on HN: https://news.ycombinator.com/user?id=jseliger

He blogged at <https://jakeseliger.com/>, and numerous of his blog articles were submitted to HN: <https://news.ycombinator.com/from?site=jakeseliger.com>. That includes numerous topics, over the past year or so his experience with cancer, often concerning frustrations with the process and mechanism.

His essay on agenticness especially strikes me as hugely insightful and underappreciated. It was submitted several times to HN but saw little discussion:

<https://jakeseliger.com/2024/07/29/more-isnt-always-better-d...>

Jake's wife, now widow, Bess, blogs at Everything is an Emergency: <https://bessstillman.substack.com>. That also details the cancer / caregiving experience, from the point of view of a wife, caregiver, expectant mother, and emergency-room doctor.

canucker20165• 2 years ago

In an August 2023 post about regrets, https://jakeseliger.com/2023/08/12/regrets/, his last regret is:

    * Not looking into that thing on my tongue in July 2022, when I first noticed it, but that is very specific to me and probably not generalizable.

In https://jakeseliger.com/2024/05/16/the-financial-costs-of-he..., he mentions

    "...I got a partial glossectomy in Oct. 2022. Mine had some high-risk features, but I was assured that, with radiation therapy, it wouldn’t recur (Bess recalls the exact words being, “Don’t worry, this won’t be what kills you”).  ... In retrospect, however, I obviously should’ve been given chemo with the radiation, but at the time I was pleased to not need chemo, and I foolishly didn’t look deeper into the data on recurrence—which is common for HNSCC—and I didn’t seek second opinions. Some of those second opinions might’ve said: “Get the chemotherapy."

Followed by radiation treatments, mentioned in https://jakeseliger.com/2023/11/14/the-more-things-go-wrong-...

He posted about his followup investigation and the treatment of his tongue one year after the treatment - https://jakeseliger.com/2024/05/25/the-one-year-anniversary-...

    "By July 21, less than two months later, another six to eight tumors had grown. If I’d known how things would shake out, I likely would’ve pivoted to chemo and clinical trials the moment the surgical biopsy came back. But I didn’t and couldn’t."

His first public announcement of his cancer - https://jakeseliger.com/2023/07/22/i-am-dying-of-squamous-ce...

Followed by https://jakeseliger.com/2023/07/23/how-do-we-evaluate-our-li...

From his wife's perspective: https://jakeseliger.com/2023/07/24/what-its-like-to-be-marri...

His wife had several posts about their search for an appropriate trial for his cancer and how they dealt with his cancer.

His outlook in May 2024: "The likelihood of me living to see another anniversary is low—probably under 20%—but not 0%."

dredmorbius10• 2 years ago

Cancer is insidious in all kinds of ways. One in particular is that insight into the current and possible state(s) of a tumor are are really difficult to assess. With all our current imaging and testing capabilities, the human body is still largely a black box. Especially after multiple surgeries, distinguishing new tumour growth from scar and necrotic tissues is difficult.

And ... for suitably aggressive tumours, even what appears to be complete removal ("clean margins") ... often isn't, and what minuscule remnants remain can grow back with discouraging ferocity. I'd visited a friend a few weeks after they'd had a growth removed, and subsequently begun radiation treatments and chemotherapy. In that brief interval between surgery and treatment the lips of the incision had spread apart by several centimetres. That turned out to be an ominous portent.

Second-guessing is also par for the course, and without comparative study it's hard to know if more immediate or aggressive treatment (e.g., immediate chemo in Jake's case) might have helped. Looking up survival stats on particular cancers can be illuminating. The one which took my friend three decades ago still has a < 20% five-year survival.

gammondorf• 2 years ago

I'm interested in his vague comments about age and how saying age is just a number is coping. Do you know what he might be referring to in his life, or of any posts he's made where he talks about that sort of thing?

Aurornis• 2 years ago

The earlier posts wishing for more aggressive treatments in the past should be read in conjunction with later posts about the realities of overtreatment.

Specifically, the post titled "More isn’t always better: death and over-treatment as a downside of agenticness" https://jakeseliger.com/2024/07/29/more-isnt-always-better-d...

One of the difficult realities of cancer treatment is that everything comes with tradeoffs. It can be frustrating to work with doctors who aren't eager to apply every possible treatment at the earliest possibility, but those doctors also know the downsides and risks of those same treatments.

sam2426679• 2 years ago

Not looking into that thing on my tongue in July 2022, when I first noticed it, but that is very specific to me and probably not generalizable... I got a partial glossectomy in Oct. 2022

This one hits close to home. My dentist at the time misdiagnosed tongue cancer as a “reddish lesion, w/ possible tongue biting,” and this was only after I pointed it out to him at the end of a routine appointment. It wasn’t correctly diagnosed until further prodding from me 3 months later. By some estimates, that delay increased my chance of death by 30%, and the cancer has since progressed from stage 2 to stage 4.

vinnyvichy5• 2 years ago

With regards to the mention on Tabarrok's post, her piece on FDA deregulation should be highlighted, I think:

https://bessstillman.substack.com/p/the-drugs-killing-dying-...

begueradj• 2 years ago

How old was he ?

dredmorbius10• 2 years ago

Far too young.

rseliger3• 2 years ago

Only 40

JohnMakin3• 2 years ago

The craziest thing to me is he was still posting up to the very end. I've seen this multiple times in end-stage cancers, my grandfather's pancreatic cancer, he seemed "fine" (other than looking incredibly sick) til the last ~12 hours or so - he was even doing some yard work the day or two before he died. He knew the entire time how much time was left, too. I don't know why I find this so crazy, other than I hope I never have to go through it - you're very aware of what's going on for a long, long time up until the end.

Glad he is no longer suffering.

JamesSwift2• 2 years ago

I think thats why cancer is such a vicious illness to have a loved one experience. Its a long drawn-out suffering, with an inevitability at the end of it. The body shuts down gradually as the cancer wins out. For my sister it was the same with 'good days' vs 'bad days'. At first bad days were the minority and over time the ratio changed.

Fire-Dragon-DoL• 2 years ago

A sister's friend's mother had a very aggressive cancer that was diagnosed and in 10 days killed her. In a twisted way, I think that might be worse than tge long drawn battle, where more time is available.

I have no first hand experience, so this is speculation. It was just shocking to hear.

wood_spirit• 2 years ago

Yes I remember the shock to hear that The Hermit, who kinda run The Register forums, died on the same day I had a chat with him. He quietly messaged me to give me some advice that was spot on. I had no idea and there was no hint that he was at the tail end of a protracted illness. They closed the forums and the website continued to change and be less of a community after that.

khazhoux• 2 years ago

posting up to the very end

8 days ago he posted a random comment about housing in Austin. So mundane.

Life and death are strange. I'm embarrassed to know that if I had 1 month to live, I'd probably still spend a couple of hours a day watching random youtube videos and commenting on meaningless HN and reddit threads.

divbzero• 2 years ago

meaningless HN and reddit threads

Maybe they aren't so meaningless. Congregating in public forums to exchange ideas is something humans have done for millennia. I should hope that, amid the noise, we find value in the conversations here and leave a bit more enlightened or entertained.

batch12• 2 years ago

It's not meaningless if it makes you happy. Otherwise, everything on this planet is meaningless.

yawboakye2• 2 years ago

i’ve come to believe that we’re more terrified of a situation while we’re not in it. once in there, and especially when there’s no way out, our bodies make the necessary adjustments for the new normal. and soon our minds/being follow. it’s often characterized as extraordinary strength by onlookers when in fact the person going through the experience had no way out. in my mother tongue, we have a proverb which roughly translates to ‘bravery is situational.’ therefore there are no cowards, just people without the necessary conditions to demonstrate bravery. if you’re lucky, you find it.

JohnMakin3• 2 years ago

putting this in this context was helpful, thank you. I have a few chronic medical conditions that when people learn about it sometimes remark “i dont know how you deal with that” and the answer really is a shrug and “there’s no choice.” humans are good at adapting for sure

lupire2• 2 years ago

In my mother tongue we have an expression:

"I'm not a coward; I've just never been tested. I'd like to think that if I was I would pass."

crngefest• 2 years ago

IMHO it’s because in our imagination anything is possible, we can imagine the bad situation in more and more elaborate and complicated scenarios. And we can’t see beyond the bad situation.

While once we are in the situation we can do very practical things and have agency to react to and improve our situation.

I once read a French „practical philosopher“ who expressed it much better than me, but yea essentially the most terrifying situations are in our imagination.

Jeema101• 2 years ago

It's very strange - some people are lucid and mobile up until nearly the end, and others are 'out of it' for a long time. My mother was mostly delirious and bedridden for the entire last month of her life before dying from cancer.

I suppose if the person is able to find peace with what's happening, then maybe it's better to be lucid, but for others, maybe being 'out of it' is a blessing.

dole• 2 years ago

Cheers and good journey to a bonafide hacker.

zh3• 2 years ago

Puts me in mind of Randy Pausch's last lecture [0]; only reminded of it by this, which also reminds me I've lost my mother, father in law recently plus close one going through it right now. Horrible disease, hard to find the words sometimes (edit: which he did).

May he rest in peace.

[0] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ji5_MqicxSo

JohnMakin3• 2 years ago

Been following along with this for a while. Jake seemed like a genuinely good guy. I find it very heartwarming that yesterday his very last HN comment was to post an archive link (which are always the most heroic people on this forum):

https://news.ycombinator.com/threads?id=jseliger

surrTurr• 2 years ago

https://jakeseliger.com/2023/08/30/turning-two-lives-into-on...

cancerboi2• 2 years ago

Jake was strong. He was so prolific throughout his death process. Truly an inspration, especially to those dying of this disease.

It is a terrible disease. I would not wish it on my worst enemy. The horror, pain and lethargy that you experience... Having chunks of your body cut out periodically... Slowly dying from the inside out... Watching your loved ones fall apart... I can barely put into words how difficult it is. If you know someone who has this disease, reach out to them, they need love and support.

Rest in peace Jake. You will be missed. But more importantly, you will be remembered.

minimax-touch• 2 years ago

And yet… an invaluable opportunity to say goodbye and "get affairs in order". The suffering for all affected, I completely agree, I would not want anyone to go through. But compared to a recent bereavement I experienced where this person just did not come home, having died suddenly, unexpectedly, tragically alone and unseen. Would that I could choose, I think I would like the notice, despite the downsides. Love to all dealing with grief.

adamredwoods• 2 years ago

The work he did with clinical trials and navigating the system was very impressive. We need more people that are willing to push the envelope on cancer trials. I have my own challenges and his work is greatly appreciated.

We still need to beat cancer, all types. Let's keep going where Jake left off.

adaml_6232• 2 years ago

I agree with you in spirit but would suggest that pushing for more funding of schools, universities, basic research, and applied research is something that we should all be doing. Imagine if all the smart people tried to cure cancer instead of working in Wall Street and Adtech

rottencupcakes• 2 years ago

Funding poorly run institutions isn’t the way.

Make it appealing for smart grads, like the type that apply for YC.

That involves removing red tape and shutting down the AMA.

akavi• 2 years ago

That's going to be hard to do so long as we continue regarding someone who makes a billion from a new cancer drug as as a price-gouging murderer while regarding someone who makes a billion from starting an adtech company with mere indifference.

jordanpg• 2 years ago

To put a finer point on this, the capitalistic enterprises that many are very excited about and believe will solve problems via the invisible hand, may not not pursue basic research because you can't demonstrate potential profit in it to an investor.

But of course basic research, including all of its false starts, failures, and irrelevant discoveries, are precisely what lays the groundwork for the for-profit enterprises that come later.

quonn• 2 years ago

Think about how difficult it is to make a significant contribution in your particular field of expertise that is not about to be done right now anyway because the time is right. Very difficult indeed.

It is the same with cancer research. Not saying the world can‘t be better, but science cannot be done faster, probably.

zitterbewegung• 2 years ago

Universities have their own problem such as no one attempting to replicate each others work [1] and keep on publishing or they won’t get promoted. We should fund replication trials in universities . Also , cancer is not some kind of monolithic problem nearly every cell has some mechanism to mutate so it becomes cancer. For example new cancer techniques come from mRNA research [2] . The problem of solving cancer isn’t some monolithic problem that throwing any amount of people will solve and even if they tried they would probably get burned out which is why they work for Wall Street or Adtech in the first place. One of the people that developed the research in mRNA got her career torpedoed to work for John Hopkins University [3]

[1] https://www.science.org/content/article/more-half-high-impac....

[2] https://www.cancer.gov/news-events/cancer-currents-blog/2024....

[3] In 1988, Karikó accepted a job at Johns Hopkins University without first informing her lab advisor Suhadolnik of her intention to leave Temple, as recounted in Gregory Zuckerman's 2021 book A Shot to Save the World. Suhadolnik told her that if she went to Johns Hopkins, he would have her deported, and subsequently reported her to U.S. immigration authorities, claiming that she was "illegally" in the United States. In the time it took her to successfully challenge the resulting extradition order, Johns Hopkins withdrew the job offer. Suhadolnik "continued bad-mouthing Karikó, making it impossible for her to get a new position" at other institutions, until she met a researcher at Bethesda Naval Hospital who "had his own difficult history with Suhadolnik".

jpeloquin• 2 years ago

Yes, the general spirit is good but the clinical trial stage is the very end of a long process. The clinical trial the most visible part of getting a new cancer treatment to patients, but the bulk of delay in developing a new treatment is waiting for the basic science. More aggressive clinical trials could save ~ years. More aggressive education and fundamental research could save ~ decades. Can't run a trial on a treatment that doesn't exist yet.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amdahl%27s_law

renewiltord• 2 years ago

The good thing about finance and ad-tech (both of which I've successfully worked in) is that if you're good your clients (if any) are happy to pay you lots. With cancer, if you succeed, you're supposed to give away what you've got since not doing so is going to kill people. If you don't, you are the Great Satan.

Since most people subscribe to the Copenhagen Interpretation of Ethics, I think I'd rather not touch the field at all. Let those who are altruistic be altruistic. If I never create a cure, I need never be considered evil for not giving it away.

zdw• 2 years ago

I actually met Jake in person, more than a decade ago, when I was doing freelance tech support and his parents needed some networking help.

Extremely driven guy, and also super interested in the why of everything I was doing and the debugging process.

Also he had the first kinesis keyboard I ever saw in person, which kind of pushed me down the build your own keyboard route, which really helped later when I was having RSI issues.

He left us far too soon.

tzury• 2 years ago

Devastating.

https://x.com/seligerj/status/1820883556509565121?s=46

dredmorbius10• 2 years ago

Archive: <https://archive.is/76NRN>

The post in question was shared to HN, though without much comment:

<https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=41173695>

And the blog entry itself: <https://bessstillman.substack.com/p/how-to-let-go-one-life-e...>

umvi• 2 years ago

I'm sort of afraid to ask since everyone seems to know, but... what is he known for? Usually black bar means a tech giant has died, but absent a wiki page I'm having a hard time finding anything on google about him except the news of his death...

samatman• 2 years ago

Jake joined HN in 2008, and has (had?) 80000 karma and change.

He was one of us. I'm sure if you refresh this thread a few times you'll learn more about him, as it happens I hadn't heard of the man until the thread about him entering hospice, so I'm looking forward to that.

But the first part of this post is enough for a black bar imho. It means that a lot of the community will recognize and know who he is, and miss him now that he's gone. That's enough.

tivert2• 2 years ago

> I'm sort of afraid to ask since everyone seems to know, but... what is he known for?
Jake joined HN in 2008, and has (had?) 80000 karma and change.

Is that all though? I kind of find it hard to believe he'd be getting this much attention because he has a lot of internet points.

The OP makes it seem like he was some kind of libertarian activist. It looks like he wrote some kind of 50 Shades of Grey-like novel ten years ago.

Is answer that he's a long time blogger known for writing very personal blog posts about dying of cancer?

dredmorbius10• 2 years ago

Some of that's addressed in my own (currently top) comment on this thread:

<https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=41203548>

I'll admit I largely know Jake through this site and his blogging, though he's got a broader biography.

His disease progression and commentary on it have been a significant aspect of HN discussion over the past six months or so.

viccis• 2 years ago

I had the same question and it mostly looks like rationalist/libertarian space posting like you saw a lot of on the internet in the 2000s in particular. His wife seems to be active in similar areas (went on a far right think tank podcast run by one of the 2010s alt-right crowd guys last month to talk about deregulating the FDA) so I'd imagine if you are of that bent, they're known pretty well.

RIP

nailer• 2 years ago

@dang can we please unflag this recent submission from Jake?

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=40928248

ETH_start6• 2 years ago

Two causes that Seliger believed in, that are after my own heart, are:

Removing FDA restrictions, to speed up drug discovery:

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=40894632

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=40746156

And removing regulatory restrictions on housing, to build more homes:

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=41125739

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=40942621

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=40746156

wayeq2• 2 years ago

I have an MRI for two suspicious masses on my pancreas and liver tomorrow. Fear for my wife and toddler more than myself.

cactusplant7374• 2 years ago

Hope it goes well.

wayeq2• 2 years ago

thank you kind soul, waiting for results. it's fun. not fun.

rseliger3• 2 years ago

This is Jake’s sister. He was reading and replying to as much as he could up until the end. He loved this community and would in turn be touched by this entire thread. Thank you all who supported him and read and shared his writing. He said it was bittersweet to go out on top.

appel• 2 years ago

I'm so sorry. I only learned about Jake due to his post the other day. I understood this was coming but still felt shock and sadness when I learned just now he has passed. Wishing you much strength.

urda• 2 years ago

I'm sorry for your loss. Thank you for the support.

dang• 2 years ago

Love and condolences from all of us.

MrGilbert• 2 years ago

I am deeply sorry. <3

keeptrying• 2 years ago

My deepest condolences.

Much strength to you.

nickpeterson• 2 years ago

This is heartbreaking, my sincere condolences.

froggertoaster• 2 years ago

My deepest condolences to you, Bess, Athena, and your entire family.

royaltjames• 2 years ago

Soul crushing! Reading his writing these past years has been a treat. I'm rooting for you all.

Dalewyn• 2 years ago

I remember exchanging some comments with him here a few months back. My mother passed from gastric cancer back in December, so this hits very close to home even if I never personally knew him.

Death eventually comes for us all, but the sheer pain and agony of witnessing someone pass from cancer is particularly unbearable.

My sincere condolences to his family and friends.

lupire2• 2 years ago

A jarring reminder to moderate blog comments. So many gross and vicious comments on a sentimental post.

BessS• 2 years ago

Hi everyone, This is Bess, Jake's wife. I just want to say how deeply touched I am to see how much Jake and his writing are appreciated here on HN. The intellectual online community which made up a big piece of his life for so long was important to him, as was having a positive influence on others, and it would have meant so much to him- as it does to me- to see the impact he made. Thank you for the people who reached out while he was still alive to make sure he knew just how large that impact was.

I've lost the love of my life, as well as my thinking and writing partner, and everything is strange and disorienting right now. It's a comfort when nothing feels comfortable to know how appreciated he was and still is. As soon as I'm able, and for anyone who is interested in joining the efforts, I promised him I'd continue the push for FDA reform, and to try to find ways to improve agency for cancer patients so that other people in his position might suffer less than he did. I've never known a braver person. I'll miss him forever, but won't stop trying to keep his legacy alive.

Please feel free to reach out anytime (I'm at drbstillman@gmail.com). Thank you also for all the well wishes for myself and Athena, who I hope will be just like her Dad.

sgseliger2• 2 years ago

Love you

steve_adams_86• 2 years ago

I didn’t know Jake’s work, but I’m going on vacation tomorrow and this thread has moved me to get copies of his books and start reading them while I’m away. I’ll be thinking of your family as I make my way through them.

I sincerely wish you and your daughter the best.

vinnyvichy5• 2 years ago

https://bessstillman.substack.com/p/the-drugs-killing-dying-...

vinnyvichy5• 2 years ago

The writing of Jake's widow (e.g., on FDA reform)

is worth reading too.

vertis• 2 years ago

Nothing can really help/console in this moment. But so many of us are thinking about him. I appreciated his blog, his strength. It will go on and make a difference.

If you ever need anything my contact details are on my profile and I would be more than happy to help in any way that I can. Technically, financially (I'm sure you have much closer resources, but the offer is there regardless).

hyperbrainer2• 2 years ago

Condolences to you and your family. I wish you great success in your journey in making clinical trials more available.

rseliger3• 2 years ago

Love you Bess <3

benreesman• 2 years ago

I don’t know Jake, but I’ve been reading his last writings and I’ll observe that strength and courage and class in the face of existential infinity never, ever goes out of style.

That’s a legacy. You’re a role model to me for how I hope to face my moment when it comes.

canucker20165• 2 years ago

from his father - https://seliger.com/2024/08/14/in-memoriam-jake-seliger-1983...

canucker20165• 2 years ago

from his wife Bess Stillman - https://bessstillman.substack.com/p/in-memory-of-jake

Jake Seliger has died

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