Bird One Scooter – Pre-Order

https://shop.bird.co/pdp.html

by samsolomon • 7 years ago

93 179 7 years ago

shop.bird.co

dev_dull• 7 years ago

Better option is to find cities impounding abandoned scooters and auctioning them off. They can be repurposed with a new IC from China.

VectorLock2• 7 years ago

I've been looking but haven't been able to find any. Has anyone had any luck?

css• 7 years ago

For auctions [0]? Or hardware [1]?

[0] https://www.usa.gov/state-surplus-sales

[1] https://www.ebay.com/itm/Durable-Board-Dashboard-bluetooth-M...

jwr• 7 years ago

I wonder how that works in practice. The scooter looks like a Bird scooter and is branded with Bird logos. If you leave it anywhere, won't people take it and try to ride it?

darkstar999• 7 years ago

They could be physically stolen but not operated.

wuunderbar• 7 years ago

The problem is that it seems that people (not most, but sizable enough in my city that I used to see it everyday) seem to be okay with vandalizing the scooters. I can only think they’re more ready to do it belongs to a big company rather than someone personally.

kawfey• 7 years ago

Yes. My friend has the same Xiaomi Mi scooter that Bird uses, and we're in a busy Bird market. He usually parks it within line of sight and often has to pester riders to quit trying to ride it away. In one case, a Bird charger took it (assuming it was broken) and he had to trace it back via a GPS tracker he installed.

Even though it's very obvious it's not a Bird (no labeling, doesn't have the large box on the handlebars, doesn't show up on Bird's map) people assume its a Bird scooter anyway and start fiddling with the controls.

Now he U-bolts it to bike stands, and now riders leave it alone in confusion.

rwmj• 7 years ago

The Xiaomi is small enough to take indoors. Why not do that?

primo44• 7 years ago

*its

"it's" = "it is"

maxxxxx• 7 years ago

I think you are losing this battle. The apostrophe’s are winning!

adrianmonk• 7 years ago

Here's how I keep this straight mentally.

The rule is, in English, you can make a noun possessive by adding "'s" to the end.

Let me emphasize one part: that's the rule to make A NOUN possessive. "It" is a pronoun, not a noun! The rule doesn't apply any more than it applies to a verb or an adjective.

Hence you don't have stuff like "you's", "he's", "she's", "we's", or "I's", and you also don't have "it's".

EpicEng4• 7 years ago

Pretty sure we do actually have he's and she's. "He's being an idiot", or "she's wrong about that."

dang• 7 years ago

For the confused: submitted title was "Bird Offers It's Own Scooter for Pre-order".

allworknoplay2• 7 years ago

"give your commute a higher purpose with zero carbon emissions."

Can people please stop claiming electric vehicles are zero emissions?

DerpyBaby123• 7 years ago

Why should they? What sort of emissions do electric vehicles have? I suspect you'll say that generating electricity causes emissions, which is only true in some cases

ecnahc515• 7 years ago

One of the bigger arguments is also in the production itself can be not very eco-friendly, eg: creating the batteries themselves.

ravenstine• 7 years ago

Because most electricity still comes from natural gas and coal. Nuclear energy still produces nuclear waste which has to go somewhere. Unless someone is relying purely on wind or solar, which is rare, they're still creating pollution by-proxy when they're charging their electric vehicle. You can't call it "zero emissions" when the emissions are just out of sight and out of mind.

EpicEng4• 7 years ago

I suspect you'll say that generating electricity causes emissions, which is only true in some cases

I think you meant "the majority of cases".

jayd162• 7 years ago

up to 0 emissions

peterwwillis• 7 years ago

down to?

nategri• 7 years ago

I find this argument exhausting. You can always define the system in such a way that there is some deleterious effect somewhere.

samcheng• 7 years ago

This isn't some 4,000 pound Tesla.

According to https://mi-xiaomi.net/specs/, the scooter uses 1.1 kWh per 100km. Let's say you ride this scooter 10 miles a day on your nice, short commute. That's roughly 0.2kWh. The average home uses ~35 kWh per day, so this is in the noise of household electricity usage.

Per https://www.epa.gov/energy/greenhouse-gases-equivalencies-ca... that's roughly 0.3 lbs of C02 in those 10 miles in the average US state. Obviously it's significantly lower than that in many places using nuclear, natural gas, and renewables, and it is decreasing annually everywhere.

According to https://www.answers.com/Q/How_much_carbon_dioxide_does_a_car..., the average car produces 0.6 lbs of C02 per mile, or 6 lbs of C02 in that 10-mile commute.

So the electric scooter isn't quite zero, but it's insignificant at less than 5% of the emissions of an average car.

xeromal• 7 years ago

The price is a bit high for my taste, but having an onboard GPS tracker is nice.

tyopiuy• 7 years ago

Evidence their business model isn’t working out. Their scooters (along with all the other companies) have all but disappeared from my area, where they once littered the sidewalk.

Once you fall once or twice on these scooters, it’s hard to ride them again. Especially when it’s the scooter that’s broken, as is often the case. It’s a shrinking market base, consequently. They (Uber-Jump, Lime) should have given incentive by offering some kind of coupons after an accident, instead of declining all responsibility and sending you the terms you signed or ghosting their customers.

sschueller• 7 years ago

They haven't learned it yet here (Switzerland). A new one from Berlin just showed up. Now we have Bird, Flash and Tier (both out of Berlin). Ironic since these scooters are illegal in Germany so they can't operate them in their own country.

Lime has bailed out of Zürich after a serious accident which was caused by a scooter applying the park brake at speed due to some firmware issue.

s3nnyy• 7 years ago

Flash I see everywhere, Tier not so much in Zürich. Is it new?

The German firms have models that have a brake that works mechanically on the wheels and this was the prerequisite by the city police after the lime accidents. Lime's scooters don't have a mechanical brake.

rsuelzer• 7 years ago

I hope they fail. The sidewalks in Long Beach are a mess with these scooters. I see kids who are clearly not old enough to drive riding these things around, sometimes three on a scooter. Meanwhile the bike share program bikes now sit unused on the racks. This isn't replacing cars in my area, it is replacing exercise. The beach path is filled with these things, creating a real hazard since the exercise path is now a motorway.

libraryatnight• 7 years ago

I only just became aware of how obnoxious these things are. We just took a trip to San Diego and stayed in the Gaslamp and these things are everywhere, from multiple companies. By early evening they're just dumped all over place, sometimes in piles. Then the people riding them are a hazard, if they're on the sidewalk they come around corners and almost cream pedestrians, if they ride in the street they almost get themselves killed driving like idiots in traffic.

I hope this trend goes away.

microdrum• 7 years ago

Seems to me their business model was faultyfrom the very beginning. For example, they initially claimed 1 week scooter payback to early investors. That was obviously an exaggeration. They also claimed to have market scale economics similar to Uber, but this was also false because the scooters were not being ridden from one micromarket to another. They were just staying in the same area.

There is a reason The Carlyle Group never rolled up all the bike rental shops into a big nationwide conglomerate!!

jayd162• 7 years ago

Isn't that a public policy result more than a business result? They would still be around but cities have cracked down.

allworknoplay2• 7 years ago

It says "Free Rides Package" and "Bird Service Center", but there's zero detail on what either of these means. Anyone know? It feels like those might a decent portion of why the price is so high, but can't say.

mdorazio2• 7 years ago

Looks like details are TBD, but it's almost certainly going to be something like either discounted rides or X free minutes of riding per month and discounted service if it breaks.

modernerd• 7 years ago

From https://shop.bird.co/:

“Bird One owners get access to additional rides on our dockless shared network in 100+ cities worldwide—so even if you’re away, you’re never without Bird.” [They mention “20 free rides” but don't say if that's per month, per year, or a one-off with the purchase.]

“Bird Service Centers offer expert vehicle care and added peace of mind.” [No word yet on location or what sort of care is included.]

The Verge has this on the service centers/anti-theft:

“If your scooter breaks down, VanderZanden said you can bring it (or mail it) to one of Bird’s service centers, located in North America and Europe. If the scooter is stolen, Bird’s “bird hunter” network of freelancers may be able to track it down and find it.”

https://www.theverge.com/2019/5/8/18535698/bird-one-electric...

vetrom• 7 years ago

Is it just me or is this being offered at a 1000% markup or so?

phinnaeus• 7 years ago

Looks more like 200%-400% to me.

k3oni• 7 years ago

I'm sorry but at 1.3K i was expecting a bit more, or maybe i'm just off but that price looks high to me.

jimkri• 7 years ago

That price is high. If you go to Alibaba or Aliexpress you can find the same scooters for $400-500 or if you buy them bulk around $250-$300

avree• 7 years ago

I'm not sure if it's really too high. Boosted Boards are quite popular and sell at a $1,399 price point. Seems like an equivalent purchase.

sithadmin• 7 years ago

Boosted Boards also tend to be a lot higher quality in terms of build, user experience, etc. compared to similar low cost competitors.

This Bird scooter has very little that sets it apart from the low cost crowd.

C1sc0cat• 7 years ago

It is a quick google shows that you can get a 50cc vespa for just under $4000.

acomjean• 7 years ago

For a point of reference I got a really quite decent ebike for $1800. (Disc brakes, rapidfire shifters) Ebikes range in price quite a bit but that seams middle of the road.

Those scooters are fast though, easily going 20 mph. I can’t imagine what the ride is like in our pothole filled streets...

diegorbaquero• 7 years ago

$1299??? Apart from the GPS and "Free Rides Package" and "Bird Service Center", what's the value added? I could just get a Segway Ninebot ES4 for less than $800?

benatkin7• 7 years ago

Or a Boosted Board.

I see people riding by on Boosted Boards and sometimes think that I want one. I never think that when I see someone on a scooter. I like to ride the scooter now and then, but I don't want to own one, nor do I want to carry one into my home or office.

151552• 7 years ago

I'm absolutely in love with the Onewheel: it may seem gimmicky, but having a massive, air-filled tire means you can go over serious obstacles and off-road (off-sidewalk) very easily.

Having a single wheel also means the wheelbase/turning radius is extremely small - you can turn in-place with enough skill.

bko• 7 years ago

Boosted Board range is much lower at up to 14 miles on the top end model ($1,400) compared to 30 on a scooter.

gonehome2• 7 years ago

If you're in Palo Alto and want to try one sometime I'd be happy to let you use mine.

leetbulb• 7 years ago

At first glance, I saw $299 on the product page and for a second I thought, "well maybe... just maybe... could come in handy some day...?"

Then I saw your comment... nope.

1023bytes• 7 years ago

The Bird Service center would be actually extremely useful. I bought a Xiaomi M365 (which is what Bird initially used) and dealing with tire punctures is really difficult. The first time I changed the tube, it took me a week to finish it. The bolts on the holding wheel are extremely tight from the factory and tire is such a tight fit too, I broke and bent multiple tire levers trying to get it on. I tried bringing it a couple local bike shops, but none of them would look at it.

universenz3• 7 years ago

There's your problem right there... Why make a scooter with tyres instead of solid rubber with suspension? That's what Segway did with the Ninebot, and their scooters are great. So confused right now.. Tyres are meant for the low end/cheap scooters, not the high end stuff.

pavel_lishin• 7 years ago

"Trust me, the customer service is a great value-add for this shitty product."

stale2002• 7 years ago

There are even cheaper options that are just as good.

The xiaomi m365, for example, is one of the most commonly owned electric scooters, (I am pretty sure it used to be the model that Bird based their scooters off of), and you can buy them for ~425$ or so.

komali2• 7 years ago

I could get an ebike or even an entire motorcycle for that price. Doesn't make any sense.

ourmandave• 7 years ago

$800 for a Segway Ninebot ES4??? You could upgrade to a Bird for only $600 more. /s

Of course I wouldn't spend that kind of money for either a scooter or whatever the hell the Ninebot wants to call itself.

ak217• 7 years ago

The GoTrax GXL v2 can be had for less than $300, and the only downside compared to the Segway is slightly less range.

Simulacra• 7 years ago

We have Segways all over the campus where I'm at. We used to have Lime and Bird's but the security concerns nixed that.

pbiggar2• 7 years ago

$1300? What the fuck! The birds in SF are just the Xiaomi scooter which costs $450. https://www.amazon.com/Xiaomi-Electric-Long-range-Fold-n-Car...

pbiggar2• 7 years ago

OK, so it's got double the battery and weighs 10lbs more.

ihuman2• 7 years ago

It's also not foldable

thetimbanks• 7 years ago

There are additional details on the home page of their shop https://shop.bird.co/index.html

The "free ride program" details:

20 FREE RIDES • Up to $5/ride on shared Birds • $100 value

syntaxing• 7 years ago

Hard to compete with what's out there in the market. Service centers aren't that big of a selling point when you can buy these around $500. I think they're better off raising the price to $2K and adding some "Level 2" autonomy to it.

bsmith• 7 years ago

This seems like a rip-off, and a pretty high-risk buy given how new Bird is to hardware...

With a quick Google search, you can find the same Segway scooter that many of the scooter companies (including Bird) have used for around $500, new.

brontide3• 7 years ago

Everyone is talking about the high price, but they should be talking about the bigger offense — Electric Rose.

We're going to look back at everything "consumer electronics pink" in a few years and cringe. I'm surprised Bird is willing to let their marketing team further complicate their brand for the sake of short term sales.

mfatica2• 7 years ago

what's wrong with having a pink color option?

brontide3• 7 years ago

It looks bad. Especially after a few months of being abused or the first rainy day. Same problem with the white Birds in their current fleet. There's nothing wrong with pink, but it makes more sense for a Google Home Mini than a mode of transportation. Bird selected pink because it's an "in" color. The product is going to outlive the color trend, which will result in further branding confusion in the future.

See Jump for effective use of color. Take note that they only use one…

ihuman2• 7 years ago

I think it's partly because of the "Millennial Pink" trend

purplezooey• 7 years ago

They missed out by not calling it Birb.

cameldrv• 7 years ago

This is a weird offering for an individual purchase. Look at the unique features:

1. Non folding stem: Adds durability for a rental, but the super quick fold is a huge part of the appeal of a scooter, because it means you can easily take it with you on the train, put it in the trunk of a car, or store it under your desk. If you didn't care about compactness, you'd probably buy an e-bike.

2. Huge battery: Adds to the cost and weight, which makes it more annoying to carry. Great for a rental where Bird is paying per charge, but very few people need to ride 30 miles between charges, and for those that do, they'd probably rather have an e-bike that is faster and more stable.

tedmiston• 7 years ago

3. If you leave it parked outside a place, people will assume it's part of the shared fleet or "force ride" it without unlocking while it beeps the whole way.

astrodust3• 7 years ago

These are just asking to get "stolen".

charlesju• 7 years ago

Or if you leave it parked outside, people can rent it and you make money... :)

Ala Tesla auto driving fleet

universenz3• 7 years ago

Exactly. I came to the thread to also point these things out.. Where is it's point of difference from a Segway Ninebot ES-2 or even ES-4 which is significantly cheaper? Weird.

condiment• 7 years ago

I own a Xiaomi Mi m365 scooter that I use daily for commutes around downtown Denver and while it's lighter than this bird, it is by no means lightweight. It won't fit under a desk. It attracts funny looks if I bring it into a business or restaurant, and locking it up on the street is annoying and time-consuming. Even when it's folded and locked up, people try to steal it.

The Bird One marketing document doesn't really go into detail, but the huge battery and GPS functionality suggests to me that the expected approach for using these scooters is to park them on the street and leave them there. If they borrow the anti-theft functionality that you see in VanMoof bicycles, this scooter makes a lot of sense. You ride it around town. You charge it in your garage. You leave it on the street when you're done with it. If it's stolen you look up its GPS location and the police help you get it back. There's low urgency to charge it. If it breaks, they'll fix it for you. And if you don't have it with you, Bird comps your rental scooter.

That's a lot more compelling of an offering than just a "heavier, faster, longer-range" scooter.

Sir_Substance2• 7 years ago

If it's stolen you look up its GPS location and the police help you get it back.

Do your police do that?

kerng• 7 years ago

1200 dollars - I wouldnt just park this on the street, given the battery and other useful things that might be mistaken for a ride share offering.

an4rchy• 7 years ago

Interesting change in their business model. Wasn't the initial goal of on-demand scooter companies to give people the convenience of renting without the hassle of owning?

What's the benefit of buying this from Bird vs any other scooter mfg? Unless, this is some sort of rev share where they can let you rent in their network and make money.

Rudebwoy10• 7 years ago

Are these still made by Ninebot?

anthonybsd• 7 years ago

I honestly fail to see the appeal of this as opposed to say Solowheel Glide 3 for last mile commuters. Doesn't fold, so forget folding it under the seat of the bus/train/etc. What's the point?

elamje3• 7 years ago

You can get a street legal new Honda Ruckus or Yamaha Zuma 50cc for ~2500. 115mpg, no motorcycle license required, 100+ mile range, and no charging. This is a tough purchase price, when you can order direct from amazon or Alibaba for at least 50% lower.

TylerE2• 7 years ago

At least where I live (NC) mopeds are hugely looked down upon, as any one riding them is assumed to be a drunk who lost their license due to DUI.

This assumption is not exactly unwarranted.

elamje3• 7 years ago

So what would people assume about you riding a $1500 scooter on the road instead?

Symbiote• 7 years ago

Do they stink worse than a bus, leaving an oily trail of smoke?

I can't understand why petrol mopeds are still sold.

elamje3• 7 years ago

In the US, those two brands make high quality products that use a 4 stroke motor, so no oil mixing. They are quite popular around college campuses and do not smell.

aparks517• 7 years ago

The Ruckus has a modern four-stroke fuel-injected engine. It shouldn’t smoke or make a stench.

walshemj• 7 years ago

Two strokes have long gone its all auto 4 strokes now.

And a 50cc Moped or Scooter has an insane MPG its why they are used for deliveries.

themark• 7 years ago

Is this a joke ?

hmhrex2• 7 years ago

This is too expensive for what I need to commute to work and back. Any other recommendations for electric bikes/scooters/boards?

brink• 7 years ago

Segway has a few good offerings on eScooters https://store.segway.com/segway-ninebot-kickscooter-es4

squarefoot• 7 years ago

I would attempt convincing this guy to make a product out of his hack. It would surely be a lot cheaper.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QhxD5owuN8g

samsolomon• 7 years ago

Before the scooters and e-bikes hit Atlanta, I was very close to purchasing a Van Moof. A friend of mine has one here and says it's one of the best purchases he's made. https://www.vanmoof.com/en_us/electrified-s2-x2

Then Bird, Lime, Lyft and Jump all appeared. There's always several Jump bikes outside of my place, which negates the need for my own bike.

EDIT: Just realized that this is also probably out of your budget. Going to leave it for anyone else that's interested though.

hmhrex2• 7 years ago

The option to "subscribe" is enticing! $25 a month is pretty good if using daily.

fooblitzky• 7 years ago

The Micro Merlin is $799: https://www.microkickboard.com/micro-merlin

RAD Power bikes are reasonably priced, but a bit more at $1499 for a RadCity: https://www.radpowerbikes.com/products/radcity-electric-comm...

ShhhImAtWork• 7 years ago

How about, ya know, a regular bike that you pedal?

milkytron3• 7 years ago

I have friends that refuse to bike to work (even short distances) because they don't want to get sweaty.

It's a valid argument if you don't already bike to work, or have a tough commute, or sweat a lot. But if you bike frequently, you sweat less as you become more fit. You can also control your pace. And if your office has a place for you to change (or even shower), then it becomes even more appealing.

Although I disagree with scooting over biking for short distances, I'd imagine a lot of people have this fear of arriving to their office with any sweat.

polote• 7 years ago

I think one of the issue with people from silicon valley trying to make consumer products is the fact that it will always be too expensive for people outside of silicon valley.

When you live there you have a huge salary and the feeling that 1k is nothing, so selling a scooter for 1k is nothing, reality is that SV is a world of its own. That's complex product management issue in my opinion

mdorazio2• 7 years ago

Note that Bird is a Los Angeles company, but the point still stands.

on_and_off9• 7 years ago

True ..

I got a boosted board when I moved to San Francisco.

Well, reason number one is that the public transportation system is a joke in this city compared to the European cities I am used to.

The price still felt steep but I can afford an 1k skateboard with a tech salary. Especially if I can recoup part of its cost by avoiding lyft rides.

brianbreslin2• 7 years ago

I've long contemplated a boosted board, but am hesitant to spend $1k on a skateboard that I can't use when it rains.

m463• 7 years ago

I've tried a lot of electric boards and I will say the boosted board is a better board than all the rest. If they spent more developing it and sell it for more, who cares.

They got the controller design and the acceleration and deceleration curves right. You can accelerate with your thumb and the motion or grip of your hand doesn't affect your acceleration. The acceleration and deceleration are gradual and dampened, so you won't pitch yourself off the board when you accelerate or slow. You have brakes. You can even slow, stop and then go backwards. It's a safer board.

And anyway, the price is coming down.

(ok, off my soapbox)

zed883• 7 years ago

Seems like a desperate attempt by Bird owing to the inherent flaws in the business model. The pricing is wrong, one could really buy good scooters at that price band. What were they smoking?

chrismckleroy• 7 years ago

Or, you could ride a bike.

nimbius• 7 years ago

This feels like Bird trying to head-off people who might learn they can buy a bird scooter from impound for about $30, and a kit for about $10 to convert them back into normal scooters.

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=18604049

yalogin• 7 years ago

Is Bird getting ready for an IPO? Why are they targeting the consumer directly instead of the rents market they are supposed to focus on?

Kiro• 7 years ago

What does "Free Rides Package" mean? Do I need to pay to use my own scooter?

rangersanger• 7 years ago

Phase 1 - give scooters away basically for free Phase 2 - sell same scooters for 1300USD

This is a business strategy that only works with heroin.

tlrobinson• 7 years ago

Boosted is launching a scooter next week too: https://boostedboards.com/coming-soon/scooter/

dreamcompiler• 7 years ago

Or if you're a hacker you can buy one at auction for almost nothing.

https://hackaday.com/2018/12/07/liberating-birds-for-a-cheap...

sharadov• 7 years ago

One more gimmick to try and salvage a dying business.

nullwasamistake• 7 years ago

I don't see how "Uber scale" scooter rental is viable long-term. Interestingly, this appears to show bird acknowledges it at some level.

Unlike cars, the purchase and maintenance cost of scooters is minimal. And you don't need a license or insurance. The only reason to rent one is lack of scooter parking or if you're visiting. Eventually society will catch up and scooter rental will be like bike or car rental. A viable business, but not nearly the scale of rideshare.

You only need to look at how successful Jump bikes are vs scooter rental to see where this is going. I've already seen many people around town that were driven to buy their own scooter after trying out the rentals. It's just one big advertisment for buying your own scooter.

Rental will still exist, but I expect the market to shrink, not grow, in the cities that already have rentals available. The barrier to buying your own is too low to make this a viable SV style business

jzl• 7 years ago

In case you missed it, see also this very well researched LA Times article from a few days ago:

"Can Bird build a better scooter before it runs out of cash?"

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19835491

Bird One Scooter – Pre-Order

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