Workers at Amazon's main Italian hub, German warehouses strike on Black Friday

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-amazon-italy-strike/workers-at-amazons-main-italian-site-to-hold-first-strike-on-black-friday-idUSKBN1DN1DS

by petethomas • 9 years ago

419 318 9 years ago

reuters.com

pouetpouet• 9 years ago

Black friday is a thing in Italy??

crivabene• 9 years ago

It is. Mostly started when Amazon landed in 2010.

louhike• 9 years ago

It's becoming a thing in a lot of countries. There are a lot of discounts in France.

Fnoord• 9 years ago

Yes, and also in other parts of Europe.

Why does this surprise you? The amount of celebrations (reasons to have sales) have increased throughout the years. If you got sales regularly people will wait till stuff's on sale. Now they gotta wait less long. It might seem silly, but the whole trick is to get people to buy things they'd otherwise not buy.

cybertronic• 9 years ago

Yes, but sadly, not Thanksgiving

icebraining3• 9 years ago

Would be weird for a mostly Catholic country. In my corner of the European south we do celebrate St. Martin's Day, although with roasted chestnuts rather than turkey. And we drink piquette, which for some reason is illegal to sell in the EU nowadays.

Symbiote• 9 years ago

The American retailers have been busy promoting it, leaving the European competition little choice but to join in.

Few people realise it's related to American thanksgiving.

caiob• 9 years ago

Does that affect Boxing day deals at all?

kristoff_it• 9 years ago

Discounts are a thing, black friday not that much honestly. We have other periods with discounts that are famous. I believe black friday is only a thing in italy with regard to amazon and maybe some other online shop, and we definitely don't have people stomping on each other in front of malls at opening hours.

forinti• 9 years ago

It's become a thing in Brazil recently. Halloween has also become unavoidable. I find this strange, because most people couldn't give you the time of day in english.

visarga• 9 years ago

In Romania Halloween has also become a thing, to the great annoyance of the Orthodox church.

soneca• 9 years ago

It is in Brazil for the last ~5 years. And we don't even have Thanksgiving here. It is just one more made up date to create advertising campaigns.

Started as a shy e-commerce thing here. Then became a huge e-commerce thing. Then a huge all commerce thing. I am seeing "Black Friday" promotions everywhere, from financial services to beauty treatments.

A common joke here is that it is "Black Fraud - pay 50% of the double of the price"[0] Because a lot of shops just smoothly increase their prices in the previous weeks, so when the date arrives, they can advertise "50% off discounts". To the point that there are websites monitoring this kind of fraud and official agencies inspecting and fining companies.

[0] The pun "Black Friday" works in Portuguese too, as shops use the original term in English and fraud is "fraude" in Portuguese.

consz• 9 years ago

Doesn't the same thing occur in the US? I was under the impression it's always been set up so that there isn't any actual deals, just the appearance of it.

Mountain_Skies2• 9 years ago

It's spreading. Five years ago I was in Paraguay and they were having Black Friday sales. They didn't even translate the name into Spanish or Portuguese despite most of the customers being from Brazil and Argentina. Everyone just knew what those English words meant for shopping.

etanol• 9 years ago

In Spain, Amazon was the major retailer introducing the Black Friday to the local masses.

During the next few years, other sellers joined the trend pushing it even more.

This year, in order to stay competitive, Amazon Spain has been "forced" to follow the trend and have a Black Friday WEEK.

djsumdog3• 9 years ago

The United States is the largest exporter of culture ... and war.

HelloNurse• 9 years ago

It's mainly an Amazon.com fixation, but various large retail chains are starting to follow suit.

kbart• 9 years ago

Black Friday is a thing even in China -- just look at major online retailers (AliExpress and similar). Though outside USA it has nothing to do with Thanksgiving day, elsewhere it's just another way to boost sales.

simias2• 9 years ago

This year it's a thing in France too apparently, or at least some vendors are pushing it. See for instance amazon.fr's frontpage or even the local fnac.com. When I saw "black friday" on their landing page I thought I had gone on the american version by accident. It's odd because Thanksgiving is only something you see in American sitcoms over here.

American cultural imperialism is really impressive. I can understand why Halloween gets more and more popular over here since it's a fun holiday for kids but I can't figure out how black friday makes any sense when you don't celebrate Thanksgiving. I also don't understand why they hope to make "black friday" a positive brand when the only thing I associate it with is videos of Americans trampling each other to get cheap appliances.

bambax2• 9 years ago

Amazon is indeed actively pushing "Black Friday", and Fnac is playing catchup. But I don't know if anyone in France is aware that "Black Friday" means "discount"...?

Also, discount days are regulated in France (called "les soldes"); normally you can't have a discount day any time you want, you have to apply for authorization.

I sell on Amazon in Europe for the first time this year (started in January); I don't do discounts but am anxious to see if sales will rise this week-end.

yardie3• 9 years ago

Just a few things I wanted to point out as a former Parisian. Thanksgiving is always on a Thursday. Usually, if work allows it, everyone takes the Friday off as well. The French are familiar with this, "le pont" unofficial holiday. This friday is almost exactly 1 month before Christmas. Black Friday serves as a signal that Christmas shopping begins now.

pmontra• 9 years ago

It didn't exist until a few years ago, much like Halloween. Then companies discovered that they are good ways to sell more stuff and suddenly we got Halloween first, then Black Friday. We're about to get our first Starbucks shop, in Milan (2019?).

To be fair, it's not only marketing. Ideas move by themselves.

kenoph• 9 years ago

Since Amazon & others started to advertise it heavily. But it's not like people go crazy like in the US. It's more or less yet another random excuse to sell stuff. I would say that it's still mostly an online thing.

alkonaut2• 9 years ago

In Sweden we have Black Friday now even though we don’t have thanksgiving.

But given that we somehow started to carve pumpkins etc in recent years, I don’t doubt that we’ll have turkey and annoying uncles at thanksgiving within just a few years.

Right now Thanksgiving is only a Black Friday sale and nothing else.

madeofpalk• 9 years ago

Christmas is 'celebrated' in Japan as a retail event.

oblio• 9 years ago

Now that's something I haven't heard about in the US for a few decades: strikes.

I'm partly kidding, but have there been any major strikes in the US lately?

tboyd472• 9 years ago

Yes. There was a major strike of screenwriters in 2008.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/2007–08_Writers_Guild_of_Ame...

erikb2• 9 years ago

"lately"

That's almost a decade ago.

manmal• 9 years ago

And notably, scripts from that time really are problematic (somewhat crappy dialogues, weak storylines), and I think some shows even got postponed or cancelled.

sandworm101• 9 years ago

A previous strike closer to 2000 was the birth of "reality television". The original Survivor was pitched on the basis of its immunity to a looming writers strike.

ericpearl• 9 years ago

That strike led to the rise of reality TV. Which led to some people becoming reality TV celebrities. Which led to one of them running for president of the U.S.

NikolaeVarius• 9 years ago

Define major. Spectrum workers are striking regularly in NYC

coldtea2• 9 years ago

Teachers in Chicago and fast-food workers comes to mind -- in the last 5-10 years.

tcbawo• 9 years ago

It seems that the only unions with enough clout to strike are public workers. I've seen teachers strike or threaten to strike from to time. In the private sector, the potential win isn't worth the risk, since long term benefits are mostly off the table already.

petre8• 9 years ago

Depends. Also workers in huge organizations like GM, Amazon etc. In the UK Amazon makes deliveries using contractors who barely have time to eat or go to the toilet. They can't go on strike since they're not employees.

RKearney• 9 years ago

Last year Verizon workers had a strike.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Verizon_strike_of_2016

It affected many of our circuit orders around that time and caused us to go with different last mile carriers.

berberous• 9 years ago

The Verizon strikers would regularly blast air horns outside my home and office. Extremely annoying, and apparently legal. Made me lose my sympathy for them real quick.

duiker1012• 9 years ago

Strikes are a pretty common thing in Italy. Especially in public sectors(transport, schools etc...)

Hell, when I was in high school even students had strikes.

eriken2• 9 years ago

This happens way more in the south of europe than in the north, where unions realize that competitiveness trumps wages.

dsacco• 9 years ago

where unions realize that competitiveness trumps wages.

It seems like you’re sneaking an assertion in there. Can you clarify your point a bit? What is the relationship between competition and wages, and why is one better than the other for unions?

didsomeonesay• 9 years ago

Denmark and Norway beg to differ...

ginko• 9 years ago

Our office cantina here in Norway was closed for a good 2 months or so last year because of a striker of the restaurant and hotel worker's union.

dullgiulio• 9 years ago

This needs to be backed up by data. Depends on how politics work between workers and companies. In Italy there is no system like the German Work Council inside companies, thus strikes happen more often (the negotiations are sometimes more confrontational.) But I wouldn't generalize from this.

petre8• 9 years ago

It happens in France all the time, mostly in the public sector.

pjc504• 9 years ago

Neoliberalism has tried to structure the economy in order to render strikes impossible by guaranteeing that they can't cause any real inconvenience.

The "sharing economy" is merely the next generation of that: there's no workplace to picket and a "flexible" supply of labour willing to cross the picket anyway.

090949203943148• 9 years ago

Which is why Foodora and Uber are seriously pissed in Germany/UK about the resident Gigsters unionizing

(source in german)

http://www.zeit.de/karriere/beruf/2017-04/crowdworking-click...

As a human who is also an employer, I take great second hand pleasure in seeing people refuse to take that shit

yodsanklai• 9 years ago

Neoliberalism has tried to structure the economy in order to render strikes impossible by guaranteeing that they can't cause any real inconvenience.

There's also a general message carried by the medias and politicians that neoliberalism is the only possible solution. People are discouraged to go on strike (or even to vote for alternative parties) even when they see their wages and their social benefits declining. They feel that the medias may be right after all, and even if they aren't, there's not much to do anyway.

djsumdog3• 9 years ago

Strikers in US media are often belittled. Think back to the Occupy Movement.

The banks were bailed out, none of those people who caused so much misery were ever put in jail, and the media belittled Occupy as being directionless and pointless. The protest was huge, stretching across cities and countries, but there was never any accountability for the banksters. It shows again as the Equifax execs were cleared of insider trading, when they were obviously insider trading.

When I was in London a few years ago, there was a massive tube strike. The train drivers were belittled in the media with reports claiming they made over 55k GBP a year, more than many nurses. They neglected to mention the new night train program would have meant long 7 to 14 week night shifts for every tube driver. The city was voted in on night trains, but had no money to fund them. So the blame gets passed all the way down to the tube drivers.

Ntrails• 9 years ago

That's not entirely true. The strike was over the fact that if not enough drivers _volunteered_ to do the night shifts, TFL could assign non volunteers. They would still be compensated for the work hours being particularly antisocial.

It is also true that Tube drivers are well paid and yes that does impact the levels of sympathy available to them. The change was absolutely funded - just not as well as the union would like.

In essence, however, tube drivers having veto rights over being scheduled to work nights presents an opportunity to cause shortages and disruption without any ramifications or declaration of strike etc. It was a giant liability for TFL to accept.

PakG1• 9 years ago

I think the Occupy Movement is a poor comparison because that was a protest, not a strike. And I don't recall protesters in the Occupy Movement being belittled.

I agree that labourers may often get unfairly blamed when things go wrong. Corporate overlords can be also very harsh and unfair.

But it is difficult to differentiate between unions that have valid claims and unions that are just riding the gravy train with an iron grip and not adding value. These are very muddy waters, and truth is often hard to find.

alexasmyths2• 9 years ago

"Think back to the Occupy Movement."

This was not a strike, not remotely.

petre8• 9 years ago

Bankers almost never go to jail in the US. Have you ever heard the expression "too big to jail"?

sliverstorm5• 9 years ago

the media belittled Occupy as being directionless

Was it not? I called it so from the start; they had a list of something like 29 totally unrelated demands, and never managed to narrow it down.

srtjstjsj12• 9 years ago

Occupy was the reverse of the strike -- it wasn't a bunch of workers refusing to work, it was a bunch of unemployed people protesting the unavailability of work.

rocco2• 9 years ago

Well, TBH in italy we have too much strikes. This is not the case but in public transportation is a common thing that happens recurrently only mondays or fridays. The motivitaion are pages of nonsense printed to just justify long weekends.

ken• 9 years ago

Living in Boeing's backyard, I regularly (if not frequently) hear about machinist strikes. It looks like the last big one was 2008: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boeing_machinists_strike_of_20...

Teacher strikes are also fairly common. Seattle in 2015, and Tacoma in 2011, for example: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tacoma_Teachers_Strike_2011

dbg31415• 9 years ago

Teacher strikes count? You hear about them sometimes. Not very common though.

* Seattle Teachers Go on First Systemwide Strike in 30 Years After Talks Collapse - The New York Times || https://www.nytimes.com/2015/09/10/us/seattle-teachers-go-on...

brianwawok2• 9 years ago

Chicago public schools are always on the verge..

erikb2• 9 years ago

Is there a Black Friday in Italy? I thought this would be a purely American thing.

dagw• 9 years ago

Over the past few years it's become pretty huge in Sweden at least.

edit: at least retailers are pushing it heavily. I don't know if the general population is really into it.

mcmacintosh• 9 years ago

It's mainly a marketing event. It was brought mainly from Amazon and then other chains picked it up to 'compete'.

a254613e• 9 years ago

It's a still primarily an American thing, however a lot of (mostly) online retailers such as amazon have started to have "Black Friday Sales", "Cyber Monday Week", etc.

I'm not sure how it is in the US but at least in Germany the offers and deals are pretty bad and/or not interesting - especially on amazon.

bezaorj• 9 years ago

It has become a big thing in Brazil as well

pjc504• 9 years ago

American things become global things when they're marketed heavily enough. This is the kind of thing people mean when they say "cultural hegemony".

Kurtz79• 9 years ago

The biggest "cultural hegemony" is basically capitalism, though.

Companies have all the interest in having such events adopted locally, since it translates in more sales for them.

But yes, Halloween and Black Friday rank among the more recent and successful American imports in EU, just a few years ago they were virtually unknown.

kalleboo• 9 years ago

It's slowly spreading globally, like Halloween. Some stores are doing it in Japan now, and Amazon is doing "Cyber Monday".

KozmoNau72• 9 years ago

A bunch of companies are desperately trying to make it a thing here in Denmark, as well. By the looks of it, they jack up their prices slightly about a month in advance, and then offer crappy 20-30% "rebates" on Black Friday.

It is simply not worth it.

sliverstorm5• 9 years ago

Fight it. There's all kinds of collateral damage.

https://www.strongtowns.org/blackfridayparking/

mrep• 9 years ago

This is why camelcamelcamel is awesome. You can see the price graph over time for each amazon product to see if it actually a good deal. I've been using it all morning and have bought a few things already.

duiker1012• 9 years ago

It's just marketing. They make good money and the people see it on TV so they are happy to emulate.

elsurudo• 9 years ago

It's starting to become a think in Poland as well.

rocco2• 9 years ago

Yes, it's just marketing.

golergka• 9 years ago

It's 2017. If something is american thing, it's a worldwide thing.

brndnmtthws• 9 years ago

Happy to hear workers are standing up for themselves. The anti-union FUD campaign in the US has contributed significantly to the erosion of middle class wages over the past 50 years (check out Thomas Piketty's work if you're curious about this).

colejohnson662• 9 years ago

It’s not FUD when you literally have unions such as ones for police who fight tooth and nail to keep bad employees working there. Sure, that’s what a union is supposed to do, but there needs to be a line, and no one wants to define it.

090949203943148• 9 years ago

It's still FUD, it just means some unions are corrupt. Or maybe more whataboutism.

Imagine if we all (and not just the left) talked about companies the same way we talk about unions, using the countless examples of managerial abuse, wage theft etc. as examples. Would you say that would be reasonable?

And preemptively, this is not a "both sides" question either. Everything is grey, but there are shades of grey. And while neither unions nor companies are perfect, both are at the same time vital to how things work right now and not above criticism. They both are definitely preferable to 1820s style enterprises for example, but worse than the Culture.

ChristianBundy• 9 years ago

Police unions aren't labor unions because cops aren't workers.

c3534l• 9 years ago

My favorite was when Twinkies employees went on strike for higher wages, which made the company go out of business. Turns out management wasn't lying when they said they couldn't afford higher wages. The problem with unions is that their interests don't necessarily line up with the company's or even the employees for that matter.

chimeracoder10• 9 years ago

The anti-union FUD campaign in the US has contributed significantly to the erosion of middle class wages

It's way more complicated than that, and it can't simply be dismissed as a "FUD campaign". Union members are actually disproportionately likely to support things like right-to-work laws, which unions dislike because it (more or less) means workers aren't obligated to be members if they choose not to.

Similarly, union membership rates have dropped even in states that have very union-friendly laws (like New York and Massachusetts), and unions are having less and less success at the polls, meaning non-unionized workers are rejecting the proposals to unionize their workforces (UAW elections in particular - AFL-CIO elections to a lesser extent).

This pattern isn't as simple to dismiss as "anti-union FUD", especially since it's seen among people who are already union members in closed shops.

The reasons for this have to do with the history of unionization of closed shops, and the regional economic pressures it creates.

zitterbewegung• 9 years ago

I think union membership rates have been dropping due to the fact that companies have been increasinly more anti union.

TulliusCicero4• 9 years ago

Union members are actually disproportionately likely to support things like right-to-work laws, which unions dislike because it (more or less) means workers aren't obligated to be members if they choose not to.

Right-to-work laws are like prop 13 in California: sounds good on the surface, but hidden terrible impact.

On the surface, "I should be able to choose whether or not I join a union" makes sense, Americans love freedom and choice. But of course, in practice people who choose not to join a union get to freeload: they get most of the benefit of the union in how it informs a company's general policies and culture about workers, but don't have to pay any fees. And like most instances of the freeloader problem, the result is the responsible entity getting starved, as everyone wants the others to be the ones paying for the benefits.

tw043• 9 years ago

This pattern isn't as simple to dismiss as "anti-union FUD", especially since it's seen among people who are already union members in closed shops.

You act as though anti-union FUD can't affect members. That's kind of ridiculous... if it didn't affect MEMBERS as well as non-members, what would be the point?

If I'm a less-educated union member who has no concept of what life was like before unions, and constantly hear that unions just take my money while providing no benefit, I'm probably likely to be swayed. What's the union going to do? Tell me about how 50 years ago companies would literally put my life at risk because there was no downside for them. And then the people financing the anti-union movement are spewing "Well that was 50 years ago, that would NEVER happen again" - all while doing everything they can to drive up hours, drive down safety, and insulate themselves from any responsibility RE: workman's comp.

For the average joe who just wants to go to work and get a paycheck, the bigger picture is often lost.

hackbinary• 9 years ago

> It's way more complicated than that ...

I don't think so. The media (the 4th estate) is now basically a mouth piece for the corporations. Noam Chompsky has written extensively on this, and the west really does not have a diverse spectrum of opinion, information, and perspective in popular, widely distributed and readily available information sources.

Media and information sources have been consolidated into a few centralised corporate ownerships that are not interested in social justice and a fair distribution of wealth. Quite the contrary, the corporate interests are simply interested in generating shareholder profits and wealth. Indeed, the directors of media companies are duty bound to generate as much profit for their respective corporations. This naturally means that the media corporations are interested in consolidating and centralising as much wealth for themselves as possible, and will cater their information and direction of opinion to achieve that end.

crdoconnor2• 9 years ago

Union members are actually disproportionately likely to support things like right-to-work laws

Is there a source on this?

lfischer• 9 years ago

Do multiple competing unions happen in the same workplace happen in the US ? As far as I have seen, that seems fairly common in the countries where I have lived (Europe only). And are there some cross-category unions (where workers in different areas and jobs are members of the same overarching organization, which sometimes organizes nation-wide demonstrations or even strikes)?

srtjstjsj12• 9 years ago

. Union members are actually disproportionately likely to support things like right-to-work laws,

And non-union members are disproportionately likely to support things like closed-shop laws.

Spooky23• 9 years ago

Let’s see some references. Most of that drop off is packing Union shops down south or overseas.

unixhero• 9 years ago

Yes, agreed. This made me chuckle. :)

ksec3• 9 years ago

Erosion of Middle Class "may" have started long before, but it rapidly took off after 2008. ( There are Middle Class / Level wages, but those wages dont put them in Middle Class anymore )*

The way I see it, is either Government protect their Workers and working class with benefits and wages, Like what many parts of Europe have done or they allow Union to do it.

And i know this is considered an extremely unpopular opinion in US.

* Does any one know if this middle class problem is also a thing in Germany?

petre8• 9 years ago

Well, companies will just use more robots, fire more workets. Robots don't get unionized, they don't need health insurance or the gov't to step and protect them.

European economy is slow compared to the US due to high taxes, too much social protection and needless state meddling in the economy. If they introduce a tax on robots it will only get worse.

rconti3• 9 years ago

*citation needed.

In economic terms, 2008 was basically yesterday. Everything I've read points to the erosion of the middle class being related to stagnant wages in real terms going back DECADES.

InternetOfStuff• 9 years ago

* Does any one know if this middle class problem is also a thing in Germany?

German here.

At this point, I think it's not yet a problem comparable to the US, but there is rising (perhaps overblown, but certainly not unfounded) fear of a social decline among the middle class.

Remember, the German employment environment (I'm struggling to find a good word) is different from the US. Trades are stronger and more respected, university education is free, social systems offer more protection (but only from outright poverty, not from social decline).

So the pressures are probably not felt a sharply. But there is growing worry.

bogomipz• 9 years ago

" The anti-union FUD campaign in the US has contributed significantly to the erosion of middle class wages over the past 50 years."

That's quite a claim, do you have any data to back that up? That just sounds like another claim intended to politicize things in some binary fashion - left vs right. Which is ironic because it is this same FUD tactic that politicians use to get people to react with their gut rather than their brain. You seem to be propagating this divisive tactic.

There are many reason for a shrinking middle class in the US - loss of the manufacturing sector, an aging population, the decline in marriage rates, a more unequal income distribution and changing demographics such as an increase in racial and ethnic diversity.[1]

Also the majority of of union members are now in public sector jobs and not private sector jobs.[2]

The past 50 years has overall seen an increase in the public sector union jobs, trending slightly downward recently.

Public-sector workers have a union membership rate (34.4 percent) more than five times higher than that of private-sector workers (6.4 percent).[3]

[1] http://www.pewsocialtrends.org/2015/12/09/the-american-middl...

[2] http://www.nytimes.com/2010/01/23/business/23labor.html

[3] https://www.bls.gov/news.release/pdf/union2.pdf

specialist2• 9 years ago

You're correct that the battle lines are not cleanly left vs right. Rather it's corporations vs labor, capital vs democracy. Same as it's ever been.

chrisco255• 9 years ago

Unions and expensive pensions contributed significantly to the bankruptcy of General Motors. If not for a government bail out we'd barely have an American auto industry.

tryingagainbro• 9 years ago

Exec salaries, golden parachutes, mistakes in management, dividends etc over the decades played no role right?

srtjstjsj12• 9 years ago

Why aren't any of GM's competitors with US factories bankrupt?

specialist2• 9 years ago

The decline of Labor is directly correlated to the current glut of labor, accelerated by the anti-labor rhetoric and aggression:

* salary fixing * wage theft * shift of tax burden from capital to labor * raiding pensions, defunding retirement plans * denying collective bargaining * tying healthcare insurance to employment * etc, etc

dizzystar• 9 years ago

As someone who's worked union, paid dues, and was thrown under the bus, I question the FUD here. My story is far from atypical.

chiefalchemist2• 9 years ago

And that as in turn led to the current "political climate." Inconic that the union busting party now have a leader they can't control and could also lead to the party imploding.

A classic case of be careful what you wish for.

Sujan3• 9 years ago

Great way to make sure in the near future Amazon will send packages to Italy from France, Austria, Slovenia or Switzerland - the countries sharing a border with them.

(Same happened - and is happening - in Germany. Staff at logistics centers started to strike (in small numbers). Totally unrelated Amazon started shipping from Poland and Czech Republic)

090949203943148• 9 years ago

And so will either increase prices or slow down delivery. Also, I don't know wether Italy has sane strike laws or not, but in Germany amazon would not be allowed to just fire the strikers, and there is and was non-negligible PR fallout from the strikes.

Just to present the full picture. In the end, either there will be a price found. But I'd say good for Italian workers for making the labour market more of a market

Sujan3• 9 years ago

Just to make clear, I am not on either ones side here. Striking is a right in Italy and Germany, so the employees sure can do it. But the reality is how it is as well :/

And so will either increase prices or slow down delivery.

Not really. Germany is small enough that it doesn't really matter if you get it from a German or a Polish warehouse (that sits directly behind the border). (Amazon Prime deliveries and similar stuff excluded - but that's a very small percentage)

Also, I don't know wether Italy has sane strike laws or not, but in Germany amazon would not be allowed to just fire the strikers, and there is and was non-negligible PR fallout from the strikes.

You don't fire anyone. You just don't invest there any more to keep up with your xx% growth every year. You just do that behind the border.

plandis2• 9 years ago

Wait, what? You can’t fire people who refuse to work? That sounds absolutely crazy.

drb91• 9 years ago

Wait, germany forces you to pay people who refuse to work? There must be some sort of miscommunication here. Why would german workers ever do their job? What if the entire region shuts down—would they still have to pay workers?

bambax2• 9 years ago

France has strikes too.. ;-)

Sujan3• 9 years ago

Fair point.

I would guess Slovenia is the most probably "solution".

rmc2• 9 years ago

Sounds like all amazon workers across europe should join the same union.

nanomoose• 9 years ago

Italy is also pushing forward with a 6% revenue tax on Amazon and similar.

rurban• 9 years ago

Same happened in Germany at 6 Amazon logistic sites at Oct 31, one of the biggest german holidays. https://www.heise.de/newsticker/meldung/Verdi-ruft-an-drei-d...

They even have their own website: https://www.amazon-verdi.de/

RGamma• 9 years ago

What effort people take to work at an obviously toxic company... the job market must be really bad.

tunichtgut2• 9 years ago

it is pretty bad. People have to take those jobs or be unemployed and get so called sanctions (=less money) by the unemployment office.

There is no general labour shortage in germany right now. 2 million foreigners are getting unemployment payments right now, which is ~1.000 Euros per month (housing included). In addition, 7 million german people are out of work.

All in all i guess we have ~10 million people waiting in lines for more work or work at all.

riffraff2• 9 years ago

Good luck to them, may they obtain whatever they ask.

It's also nice to see people doing a serious strike in Italy for once, unions have done a shitty job there in recent years, but it's important to have workers protest, to guarantee a balance of power.

malchow• 9 years ago

Stories like this will, in the near future, be part of the story about why Brexit was NBD.

splouk• 9 years ago

Could you elaborate?

rsynnott• 9 years ago

Presumably no-one will want to strike after Brexit, due to all the Red, White and Blueness.

I dunno, maybe they think May will declare herself dictator for life and ban organised labour or something?

beavis22• 9 years ago

I know this doesn't really apply to Amazon, however I think it's irresponsible striking on the companies busiest days.

If you want to keep your job, your company needs money. If you want better wages/conditions, your company needs more money.

With that said, I do wish the strikers luck.

eloisant• 9 years ago

At some point when the company is making tons of money but is screwing its employees, the only recourse the employees have is to do damage to the company to be heard.

Amazon is already drowning in money, Bezos is the richest man on earth, even more money is not going to convince them to treat their employees better. A bit less money is not going to sink Amazon.

beavis22• 9 years ago

I know. It doesn't apply to Amazon - I wish the workers all the luck.

Kiro2• 9 years ago

The company said salaries paid to its workers were among the highest in the logistic sector and that it also provided some benefits such as private medical insurance or money to pay for training programs.

I don't understand how you can strike if this is true.

Xylakant2• 9 years ago

First, "the company said" doesn't make that a fact. Maybe explicit or implicit benefits are better at other companies.

Second: Why not strike even if this is true? The workers are part of why the company earns money, why not demand their share? It's market forces, after all - workers are just using their bargaining power, just as any company does every time they negotiate a wage with an employee.

SiempreViernes3• 9 years ago

I don't either understand why they strike, but that's because they released their statement as a scanned pdf without ocr and I can't read italian: http://www.cgilpiacenza.it/imgportfolio/14/img_6/img_767969....

Grobak• 9 years ago

The are complaining about forced overtime, night work and working sunday, all time that is paid at minimum salary. They say they have been contracting with the company for over a year and while they are apparently open, in practize they keep taking time and implementing no changes

mrighele3• 9 years ago

I will try a summary translation for you (I can't claim to be perfect, it is more union-speak than Italian :-) ):

The issues that the unions are complaining about are:

* Need for increased wages: the current wages follow the minimum required by the CCNL (national collective contract)[], but working condition are worse than usual: pauseless working shifts, higher productivity required, night shifts spread all year long with 6 days working week in during high peak perios (e.g. Christmas). No productivity bonuses for event such as Christmas or Black Friday. * No ability to balance work life and personal life.

The unions say that they are going on strike since for more that one years they have tried to address those issues with Amazon but the latter always delayed any kind of action.

[*] CCNL is a contract that is agreed between unions and employers at the national level to guarantee a baseline for all employees in a given sector.

toyg• 9 years ago

This is what the company says, not necessarily the whole truth (how many employees got these benefits?).

Besides, things like "private medical insurance" are meaningless in Northern Italy, where the regional health service is either free or very low-cost and delivers excellent levels of care. I'm surprised they are even mentioned as important benefits; either the person speaking to reporters is not Italian, or they are trying to target the story to non-Italian audiences.

More meaningful benefits in Italy would be guaranteed bonuses ("tredicesima", "quattordicesima") or short hours.

bonzini4• 9 years ago

If they are employed under the commerce contact, they have two guaranteed bonuses.

tedmiston2• 9 years ago

It could be that they define logistics sector very broadly intentionally so that it includes a high number of low pay workers, such as those making minimum wage.

Or, how Amazon defines the aggregate of "salaries paid to its workers" — average, median, max, etc?

I'm generally skeptical of hand wavy claims that like this that shy far away from real numbers.

plandis2• 9 years ago

It’s simple economics. The workers believe that they have the leverage to demand more pay. Even if they are making the most of any non-skilled labor with leverage wouldn’t you try to make more?

SiempreViernes3• 9 years ago

The joint declaration from the unions (scanned, italian, pdf): http://www.cgilpiacenza.it/imgportfolio/14/img_6/img_767969....

FanaHOVA2• 9 years ago

They are basically saying that they talked with Amazon management and they were open to listen but not to act in order to raise their salaries and add bonuses. The reasons why they are asked it's because they have to work nights, Sundays and have forced overtime.

The economy in Italy is really bad, most of my friends don't have jobs and those who do usually have ones who are just average pay (18k euros/year). From what I read here (an Italian newspaper: http://www.lastampa.it/2017/03/14/edizioni/vercelli/qui-ad-a...) salaries are 1100-1200/month AFTER taxes. My dad delivers fresh fish to restaurants, he starts working at 4am every day until 1pm the next day. He works Monday through Saturday. His pay is slightly higher than that simply because he's been there for 20+ years and is now responsible for a few other things.

At least once a month there would be a strike while I was in high school, whether that was the professors, the bus drivers, the school janitors, the delivery people, etc. I don't think this is gonna be any more useful than those strikes; the difference is that Amazon can fire them, while those other strikes were "safe" because they are all state jobs which you can not be removed from. Curious to see how this plays out.

CamTin2• 9 years ago

He works 37 hours at a stretch 6 days a week?

nindalf• 9 years ago

The company said salaries paid to its workers were among the highest in the logistic sector and that it also provided some benefits such as private medical insurance or money to pay for training programs.

Not a criticism of either Amazon or the unions but I would really appreciate it if news sources would verify these claims one way or another. Obviously as a wire service, that may not be Reuters' job but whether Amazon's claim here is true or not makes a massive difference to what I glean from the article.

hackermailman• 9 years ago

I talk to workers here in Canada the starting salaries and benefits are about average, definitely not 'highest in the sector' or any such nonsense though maybe in Europe they are in order to attract employees. Here they are expected to do 10-12hr overtime shifts every day, and work as hard as possible without breaks to make bonuses which are inconsistent, and because there's no union representation harassment galore goes on with managers phoning you at home all hours to answer non-critical questions that could have waited until your next shift.

This old Gawker article accurately describes the warehouse conditions http://gawker.com/inside-an-amazon-warehouse-the-relentless-...

swypych• 9 years ago

“Wire service”?

srtjstjsj12• 9 years ago

Being a "wire service" doesn't remove their obligation to check claims of fact. Otherwise, they should print my claim that Amazon has the lowest benefits of any logistics company.

chiefalchemist2• 9 years ago

Regardless, volume of work and general conditions might not align with pay. In this instance, it sounds to me that Amazon is expecting to push very high / recond volumes but not adjust compensation to align with that.

Long to short, there are reasons to strike beyond just pay.

peterwwillis• 9 years ago

You cannot gleam anything from this blurb. It doesn't talk about Germany's trade surplus, higher than average minimum wage, or strong unions that typically compromise with companies rather than threaten the company's long term stability. It also doesn't mention Italy's strikes being so common you check the morning news to see what won't be working that day.

The fact that the info comes from Amazon is biased at best, but without an analysis of both situations this is just a 'current events' blurb.

bonzini4• 9 years ago

Strikes are very common in public transport in Italy. Everything else, not that much.

thirdsun• 9 years ago

At least in germany the criticism is based on the fact that Amazon considers its business and workforce as part of the lower paying logistics sector, while unions expect Amazon's employess to be paid according to the retail/trade labor contract. That means mentioning the high salary level among logistic workers doesn't address the actual concern of the unions.

kingkawn• 9 years ago

Woody Guthrie knew https://youtu.be/10A0HQPLTJk

alexasmyths2• 9 years ago

It's not 'black Friday' in Europe.

tunichtgut2• 9 years ago

I dont blame them. Wages in Germany are far to low.

anon11082016• 9 years ago

But exactly after 5pm, they'll go home from their strike. Not a minute longer

Thlom• 9 years ago

How do unions work in the US? From what I hear it sounds like members are "employed" by the union and the company is forced to hire workers from the union? Have I misunderstood?

In Europe workers are hired by the company and are free to enter whichever union he or she wants or not to join a union. Usually all workers at a workplace join the same union and form a local branch/club at the workplace. Unions are national and usually there's several different unions organised under one union organiser. The biggest union organiser in Norway have almost a million members (that's one fifth of the population!) across almost 30 different unions. So when push comes to shove they are able to call a general strike and basically shut down the country. That almost never happens though.

literallycancer5• 9 years ago

How do unions work in the US? From what I hear it sounds like members are "employed" by the union and the company is forced to hire workers from the union? Have I misunderstood?

This is the case in the EU as well. If your company is of a certain size, you are required to pay a person that works for the union rather than for the company.

badlogic• 9 years ago

Citation needed. At least in Austria, a country with a 90%+ unionization, that is absolutely not the case.

brianwawok2• 9 years ago

My limited union experience as a highschooler.

I worked as a stocker at Kroger grocery store. Made maybe $6 an hour. During interviewing, I was told that stocking at Kroger was a union position, and in order to accept the job I had to join the union. I know it somehow tied into a national union, and am sure I could google it.. but I know nothing about it.

Every week, I had an $8 deduction from my paycheck to union dues. Otherwise, it was no different from any other job. I interviewed with the store (Kroger). I got a paycheck from Kroger. I maybe had a piece of paper with a phone number of a union rep, but I never made contact with the union (for good or bad). The pay was the same as the non-union grocery store across town.

So for me personally it was nothing except $8 a week to some union bosses. But I have been AROUND many other unions, and the experiences can be far different. For example, the Chicago Public schools have a very strong union. Because of it, teachers are paid a fair bit higher than other comparable cities. In theory teachers are protected from unjust firings and harassment. As cons, the teachers get no merit award, 100% pay is based on tenure. Great for the bottom half of teachers, not so good for the top half of teachers. It also makes it basically impossible to fire a teacher if there is not a videotape of the teacher beating a kid.

grondilu• 9 years ago

Unions said in a statement more than 500 Amazon workers at the Piacenza site in northern Italy had agreed to strike following a failure to negotiate bonuses with the company.

They could not get bonuses, so they go on strike? Jeez, Amazon really needs to work on automating its warehouses ASAP, for it seems to me workers greed is becoming a problem.

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Workers at Amazon's main Italian hub, German warehouses strike on Black Friday

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