I Fell 15,000 Feet and Lived

https://uss-la-ca135.org/60/1960Judkins-Knott.html

by curtis • 9 years ago

950 246 9 years ago

uss-la-ca135.org

dogruck• 9 years ago

Humans never cease to amaze.

I'm anxious about an event tomorrow, and this put me at ease.

Then again, I have a spleen...

EADGBE3• 9 years ago

Hey, maybe tomorrow you won't have one :)

jpatokal• 9 years ago

Related: A Serbian flight attendant who survived a fall of 10,160 metres without a parachute.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vesna_Vulovi%C4%87

toomuchtodo• 9 years ago

Tangently related: Israeli F-15 pilot who loses a wing in a mid-air collision and still successfully lands.

https://theaviationist.com/2014/09/15/f-15-lands-with-one-wi...

Interesting tidbit: they slapped a replacement wing on and returned the aircraft to service.

sundvor• 9 years ago

Talk about winging it! Great link thanks. Probably a good thing no-one told the pilot how badly his plane was damaged.

mc32• 9 years ago

And totally different tangent, GM will not warranty a C7 because of a minor crack on the chassis[1] so it's declared totaled and offered for 7.5 grand or so.

[1]http://gmauthority.com/blog/2017/09/one-tiny-crack-led-a-c7-...

avip• 9 years ago

Interview with the pilot https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LveSc8Lp0ZE

cyberferret2• 9 years ago

Vesna only passed away late last year (of old age). I remember reading her remarkable story as a kid.

bujak• 9 years ago

Nope, that story is probably a fabrication. Plane was likely shot down during emergency landing. Huge fuckup by communist forces that was covered up.

dredmorbius2• 9 years ago

Reference?

neurotech12• 9 years ago

There is a few similar cases

Bahia Bakari https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bahia_Bakari https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yemenia_Flight_626

Juliane Koepcke https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Juliane_Koepcke https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LANSA_Flight_508

jackson1way• 9 years ago

very interesting stories!

there is a few similar posts here, but I always thought that the only known person who ever survived a fatal passenger aircraft crash, dropping out at high altitude, was this person:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Juliane_Koepcke

She was the only survivor of 92 passengers and crew in the 24 December 1971 crash of LANSA Flight 508 in the Peruvian rainforest. When the airliner broke up in mid-air, she survived after plummeting about 3 km (~10,000 feet) while still strapped to her seat, before crashing through the rain forest canopy and coming to rest on the forest floor.

Her injuries did allow her to walk for 10 days, until she was found. So you could say, it was mostly light injuries.

It is nowhere mentioned that she had a missing spleen btw.

someone else posted also this list: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_sole_survivors_of_airl...

RyanShook• 9 years ago

Amazing story.

chrismealy• 9 years ago

I know a guy who ruptured his spleen from hitting the water at a water park (he was very overweight at the time). It happens.

alexasmyths2• 9 years ago

That there was a mechanical failure, + 2 failures on the ejection, and a parachute failure - is not a fluke. This is an extreme dereliction of duty by design and/or maintenance teams.

There would be blame to go around as a result of this, and surely some op changes.

yodon• 9 years ago

This is why civil aviation is so safe, and why it remains dangerous. There is essentially no single root cause path to death in civilian aviation, you need multiple systems to fail (yes, including the pilot, because you have a copilot, medical tests, training, and related secondary systems all designed to prevent the pilot from failing or provide a secondary system if they do). Every aviation accident today is almost by definition a multi-system failure. It would be nice if multiplying two low probability events resulted in a zero probability for the combined event but unfortunately probabilities don't zero out that way.

FabHK• 9 years ago

Every aviation accident today is almost by definition a multi-system failure.

As in James Reason's famous "Swiss Cheese" model of accidents:

In the Swiss Cheese model, an organisation's defenses against failure are modeled as a series of barriers, represented as slices of cheese. The holes in the slices represent weaknesses in individual parts of the system and are continually varying in size and position across the slices. The system produces failures when a hole in each slice momentarily aligns, permitting (in Reason's words) "a trajectory of accident opportunity"

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swiss_cheese_model

cyberferret2• 9 years ago

That there was a mechanical failure, + 2 failures on the ejection, and a parachute failure - is not a fluke. This is an extreme dereliction of duty by design and/or maintenance teams.

Re: Ejector seat, it could also have been pilot error, if he had forgotten to take the safety pins out of the ejector system during his pre flight check. They are there specifically to prevent the ejection rocket from firing while maintenance crew are working on the aircraft on ground, and should be removed (by either pilot or crew chief) before flight. I know that in Naval aircraft, the pilot has to replace these pins as one of the last things he does before leaving the aircraft after landing.

dba7dba2• 9 years ago

I doubt anyone could've missed a pin with a big red tag (flag) attached to it. It can't be missed.

alexasmyths2• 9 years ago

That's why there is a parachute, which also failed?

The 'odds' are not that there was some unlikely event.

The 'odds' are that someone/some group was not doing their job.

psergeant• 9 years ago

As with almost everyone who survives, note the missing spleen

gear54rus• 9 years ago

What is this referring to?

ekianjo2• 9 years ago

If your spleen has ruptured, you may need a splenectomy immediately because of life-threatening internal bleeding. A rupture may be caused by a physical injury, such as being hit by a car, or by an enlargement of your spleen.

https://www.healthline.com/health/spleen-removal

maxerickson• 9 years ago

A ruptured spleen causes internal bleeding. It's one of the more likely traumatic injuries to the abdomen. If you have had it removed, internal bleeding is less likely.

imron• 9 years ago

The article mentions that if he had a spleen it would have ruptured from the fall and he would have bleed to death.

sergiotapia• 9 years ago

The proverbial spleen. Every "survivor" had this extraordinary luck that happened to position them just the right way to come out on top.

epigramx2• 9 years ago

That sounds extremely confident. I can google that it's a common area of internal bleeding but what is the exact likelihood in that particular instance?

et-al• 9 years ago

This is insane.

At least 5 redundancies failed: the Ram Air turbine, primary and secondary ejection sequences, the parachute, and his survival pack went missing. And yet Mr. Judkins survived maybe because he had spleen removed. Amazing.

qume• 9 years ago

Actually the RAT worked (the emergency electrical generator).

My team is working on building one of these auxiliary generators right now, fun project.

Earlier this year I deployed a RAT by mistake (poor mechanical design) and I believe it died as we were flying too fast for it (poor electrical design)

mavidser• 9 years ago

The RAT actually worked. It was what made the radio come back online.

DonHopkins• 9 years ago

That's 6 failures, assuming that's why he had to have his spleen removed.

24gttghh• 9 years ago

His spleen was removed after an auto accident prior to the flame-out.

johngalt• 9 years ago

+ rescue plane couldn't communicate with nearby ships

econnors• 9 years ago

Awesome read.

Can anyone explain the quote below? I don't really understand how the minesweeper understood the signal.

---

The Coast Guard amphibian gained altitude and flew off. (I learned later that he headed for a squadron of minesweepers that was returning to the United States from a tour of the Western Pacific. He was unable to tune to their radio frequency for communications. But this ingenious pilot lowered a wire from his aircraft and dragged it across the bow of the minesweeper, the USS Embattle. The minesweeper captain understood the plea, and veered off at top speed in my direction.)

graeme• 9 years ago

My guess was that the signal was an inprovised “hey! follow me”. But, I have precisely zero expertise.

justin66• 9 years ago

I think it was mostly a matter of people asking "what is that Coast Guard amphibian rescue plane trying so hard to tell us?" and that question having a very short list of likely answers.

djsumdog• 9 years ago

Makes me think of Lassy. "What are you trying to tell us? Is Timmy stuck in the well?"

an_account• 9 years ago

Maybe the minesweepers decided it was a good idea to switch radio frequencies, so that they could chat.

raldi3• 9 years ago

I don't think the tech was there at the time to make communications possible.

gvb• 9 years ago

I interpreted it that the plane dragged the wire in the sea in front of the minesweeper in the heading of the pilot. This would have drawn a line in the sea, as it were.

That would be a totally unexpected behavior, which would give the minesweeper's captain the clue that it was a signal to change course to the given heading. The plane would have headed back to the pilot and circled, giving the minesweeper's captain assurance he had understood the signal.

themodelplumber• 9 years ago

I'm not a pilot, but I've often read in rescue histories that an airplane's circling and then flying-over in a given direction is meant to be taken as a vector, like "go that way".

In this case I'm guessing the wire was more like the second, confirming clue.

rangibaby• 9 years ago

OK, you're a captain of a boat. A friendly plane is circling above your boat. What's up with him? Radio him. Nope, that didn't work. He dragged a rope across our deck and flew off in a straight line. Let's follow him and find out what the fuss is all about.

rdl• 9 years ago

The minesweeper probably had already been informed over the radio by the rest of 7th Fleet that a plane had gone down, so it didn't take a whole lot to put "aircraft which can't communicate is signaling" followed by the heading.

Cacti• 9 years ago

They were dragging it perpendicular across the front of the ship, so, the wire is like a hand waving "this way, follow the line", which was pointed towards the location of the guy.

It is not a standard or anything, so abnormal enough to get the drift.

pizza• 9 years ago

if your experience (memory of error-correcting inter-ship communication procedures) is perplexed/high entropy, something unexplainable/miraculous/it is like a flare

sdfjkl• 9 years ago

It's an unusual method. There is now a standard method for this, which is printed on the SOLAS (Safety Of Lifes At Sea) cards we sailors are required to carry, although the direction ones are not on all versions of the card I've seen. Here's one that has them (section "Air to Surface Direction Signals): http://www.marinelite.gr/images/detailed/1/221518a.jpg

EADGBE3• 9 years ago

It's like Lassie.

smnplk4• 9 years ago

What about Luke Aikins, who jumped without a parachute into a net from 25000 feet. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6qF_fzEI4wU

ekianjo2• 9 years ago

Not parachute related, but the story is Juliane Koepcke, sole survivor of a plane crash, is worth a read as well: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Juliane_Koepcke

dbrgn2• 9 years ago

Here's a documentary by Werner Herzog featuring Juliane and her story: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rlJVIcCPIl8 The book is worth a read too!

trentmb• 9 years ago

Jesus christ

ceejayoz• 9 years ago

Altitude doesn't really make a difference past ~1,500 feet. At that point, you've hit terminal velocity.

smnplk4• 9 years ago

I know, the point was that he landed without parachute. If I had a choice to jump at 1500 feet or 25000 without a parachute, I would take the latter option.

craftyguy• 9 years ago

For downward velocity, it doesn't matter. But for lateral movement, where the wrong move 10k+ feet up could send you off course, it matters.

shpx2• 9 years ago

or the guy who wing-suited into cardboard boxes https://youtu.be/DEP8juRSBRo?t=1m33s (headphone warning: loud)

pbhjpbhj2• 9 years ago

Meta: why doesn't YouTube normalise volume. Why doesn't my OS/DE do it. (Mostly I'd want volume compression too.)

iopuy• 9 years ago

Earlier this year on a white water rafting expedition I had the misfortune of falling out of the raft and into a series of category 5 rapids. It was absolute chaos. The force of large bodies of moving water is astounding. Any notion of "swimming to safety" is ludicrous. A more accurate description is "being washed to safety" because you have no control over the larger movements of your body. I've heard in avalanches survivors sometimes don't know which end is up and digging themselves deeper. This was me while underwater in the rapids. I couldn't see, didn't know which end was up, and couldn't breath. How he managed to survive is astonishing. Finding his knife, assessing the situation, and acting before being pulled under while injured almost defies my imagination. Riveting read.

mirimir2• 9 years ago

I've also gone swimming in continuous Class V. And yes, there is no control. But hopefully, you're wearing a wetsuit/drysuit, helmet and life preserver. So as long as you can get a breath occasionally, you may well survive. Dead trees jammed among the boulders (sweepers) are probably the major risk.

mirimir2• 9 years ago

There's also the fourth drop of Lost Paddle on the Gauley in WV. The whole left side of the river is a labyrinth of strainers. Thereby the name ;)

abritinthebay• 9 years ago

I got pulled out and through a Cat 3 after heavy rains... and that was enough. Can't even imagine the scariness of a Cat 5 (multiple!!)

cjonas• 9 years ago

if your unlucky enough to be fully buried in an avalanche, it's not possible to dig, period. After everything stops moving, the loose snow refreezes almost instantly, locking you in place. Still, you're correct... Survivors often state they had no idea which direction was up.

skummetmaelk• 9 years ago

I thought the common advice was to try to swim upwards while you were moving.

yodsanklai• 9 years ago

Survivors often state they had no idea which direction was up

They can spit or pee.

Johnny_Brahms2• 9 years ago

This depends on the type of avalanche. I know,because I was caught in one. The one I was in was relatively minor and made up of a large part newly fallen snow. I had stopped for a break and managed to get my skis back on, but the thing overtook me hundred meters later. I had managed to get to higher ground relative to the rest of the slope, which is probably what saved me. I broke one leg and both my arms and got a pretty bad concussion.

I managed to walk/ski (one ski was still on me, but badly broken ) to a nearby village and driven on a stretcher to the hospital.

I am lucky to be alive. It is amazing though how clear you can think in life threatening situations. the moment I noticed the avalanche I knew exactly what to do and where to go. When I was buried I remember rocking back and forth to get some wiggle/breathing room and when it stopped I waited until my mind cleared up, struggling hard to defeat the panic and pain, until assessing g the situation.

ivanhoe• 9 years ago

Happened to me a few times, it's a hell of a ride once the water gets you... there's no swimming in rapids, you can maybe just try to position yourself to have legs in front and even that is hard... and pray there's no fallen branches stuck between rocks somewhere in there.

OoooooooO• 9 years ago

Class 5: Whitewater, large waves, continuous rapids, large rocks and hazards, maybe a large drop, precise maneuvering. Often characterized by "must make" moves, i.e. failure to execute a specific maneuver at a specific point may result in serious injury or death. Class 5 is sometimes expanded to Class 5+ that describes the most extreme, runnable rapids (Skill Level: Expert)

agumonkey3• 9 years ago

Never went into rapids, but I went into a beach between caribean sea and atlantic ocean, known for having a bit more waves (nothing like a class V rapid, maybe 1m waves max.). I failed to catch one at the right time and got swallowed into the crashing tube, it was hard to describe how being embedded in a fluid with enough internal energy feels. Between the chaotic directions and the actual strength I turned into a wooden puppet. I ended up eating the sand face first while my heel knocked my head from behind. Something I cannot do on my own, its just the wave that folded me backward. I'm lucky I didn't breath water I'd have finished that day in a hospital or worse.

Chris20482• 9 years ago

I did something similar in Nice. Standing a little inshore, the top of the water hitting my torso was moving faster than the water around my legs. I ended up being flipped backwards, and dumped on the floor with my back bent right back. I was lucky the tide wasn't stronger, it was hard enough swimming back to shore with my back hurt as it was.

odammit3• 9 years ago

I was on the barren craggy side of Aruba with my wife standing on this sheer “cliff” about 15 feet above the ocean watching these big waves roll in.

All of a sudden a wave about 20 feet appeared out of nowhere and almost swept us off the cliff.

I was recording a video of the waves. We looked back at the video later and you hear me go “oh shit”, pick up my wife, and run just to get pummeled by this thing from behind with water splashing over us. We got pretty far from the cliff and I’m not positive how much of it was running verse being pushed.

The end of the video is us soaked cracking up with broken flips flops and me saying “my phone got wet”. We absolutely don’t remember any of it. It was pure adrenaline the second we saw the wave.

sizzzzlerz2• 9 years ago

The dory I was on flipped going into Crystal rapids on the Colorado. Crystal is one of the most notorious rapids in Grand Canyon due to its huge hole and the rock garden just down stream where you end up if you don't make the rapid. Two people, including the boatman went into the hole, getting Maytagged for a bit before they were spit out. I skirted the edge but got by safely, no thanks to my puny attempts at swimming against that current. Looking down into that hole, though, scared the crap out of me. Fortunately, everybody made it to shore safely, the boat was recovered by an earlier one, and we went on our way with a great story to tell.

muzani3• 9 years ago

Might I ask why you go white water rafting? It baffles me as it seems like a really dangerous hobby.

I actually understand skydiving, bungee jumping, or climbing Everest, because they are controlled risks, but white water rafting seems very chaotic.

Piskvorrr6• 9 years ago

Controlled risks, bah humbug! If you think Everest is a controlled risk, do not go there, you are severely underestimating the risks and you would die.

jsjohnst3• 9 years ago

As someone who has done three of four (not done Everest, but have done highest peak in continental US), I think I can fairly say you have a misconception of the risk with white water rafting. The risk of being thrown overboard is high, but the risk of death is much lower in my opinion than skydiving. Sure, a tandem jump is pretty safe, but progressing further is barely what I would call a “controlled” risk. With BASE jumping for example, it’s not really an “if” you’ll die, but rather a “when”. I’ve had many friends die (part of why I won’t do it myself) from doing BASE jumps.

JadeNB2• 9 years ago

How he managed to survive is astonishing. Finding his knife, assessing the situation, and acting before being pulled under while injured almost defies my imagination. Riveting read.

Did this happen to you or someone else? You switch from first to third person without explanation. "Riveting read" seems like a weird conclusion.

c22• 9 years ago

It happened to Cliff Judkins. GP is comparing an event from their own life with the content of the article.

munificent• 9 years ago

The force of large bodies of moving water is astounding.

We underestimate it because we're used to water flowing around us at low speeds. But once you've got enough of it moving quickly, the viscosity and momentum really starts to matter.

The thing I think of to try to ground my intuition is to imagine someone throwing a gallon of water at me, still in its jug. Now imagine thousands of those hurtling my way. That's a big crashing wave.

Bluestrike2• 9 years ago

I can speak more towards avalanches than I can with rapids. It might be tangential to this discussion, but I can't help but chime in on the subject when I get the chance. I've thankfully never been buried in a slide, but it's one of those topics that all non-suicidal backcountry skiers spend a lot of time studying. The community is extremely focused on education and outreach, because those are the only tools that will give people the knowledge and skills needed for informed decision-making when they're in the backcountry. You do everything in your power to avoid being in a position to trigger a slide in the first place. Even if it means foregoing your planned lines for more conservative terrain, going home when you see the terrain and snowpack, or not going out at all if the forecasted danger level is high.

Self-rescue is really, really rare unless you've been incredibly lucky enough to float towards the top of a shallow deposition zone in a small slide. Or you've been deposited on top. Even in a relatively shallow burial, 10-12" inches (or even less) means you're entombed in what might as well be concrete. If you're lucky, you'll be able to at least push away a cavity to breathe into while you wait for the rest of your group to dig you out before you asphyxiate. There's equipment that can help you improve your chances (airbag, AvaLung) beyond just the beacon, but they're not guarantees. If it's in your mouth and it isn't knocked out, an AvaLung might help you extend your air supply. An ABS airbag system will hopefully help you float closer to the top during the slide. It won't help you if you slam into a tree or other debris and break your back.

Whether it's in the snow, or in the water, mother nature is an uncaring mistress who demands respect. Even when you do everything right, she can still kill you. If there's one good thing about hearing these stories, terrifying and tragic as they often may be, it's that they can drive home that point. The outdoors are, more often than not, a continual exercise in risk management. We put up with it because there's nothing quite as breathtaking as seeing the sun peak over a snow-covered horizon from atop the mountain. Or as exhilarating as the ride down.

raldi3• 9 years ago

By the way, this story happened in 1963.

wolfkill2• 9 years ago

I was wondering!

tempestn3• 9 years ago

At least the life vest inflated!

robotresearcher• 9 years ago

Lucky devil!

js2• 9 years ago

Huh, an F-8, just like Lt Col William Rankin who spent over 40 minutes stuck in a thundercloud after ejecting from his F-8:

https://www.damninteresting.com/rider-on-the-storm/

adamredwoods• 9 years ago

Nice, thanks for sharing! I also like Bill Weaver's story of ejecting from an SR-71: http://www.chuckyeager.org/news/sr-71-disintegrated-pilot-fr...

and this one of a paraglider surviving a thunderstorm uplift: http://www.smh.com.au/news/national/dead-luck-ewas-flight-of...

dbrgn2• 9 years ago

You can watch the documentary about Ewa here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YTEoD2j4xdQ

epigramx2• 9 years ago

He fell in an ocean. I wonder, if you happen by some extraordinary feat of skill or luck to fall feet-down in a perfectly straight body formation, would the impact be too small to have any injury?

Deestan• 9 years ago

Judging by his injuries (smashed ankles and broken hip), I guess that is exactly how he fell.

nathancahill• 9 years ago

From cliff jumping 13 meters and nearing ripping my hip out of it's socket by having my feet ever so _slighty_ apart, I can't imagine the amount of injury from 15,000 feet.

tempestn3• 9 years ago

You can't reduce your surface area to zero. So survival free-falling into water is very unlikely, even if you land perfectly. Uninjured is definitely impossible.

It sounds like his pilot chute and un-deployed main chute slowed him down just enough, and he landed well enough, that his body was able to take it. Lack of spleen helps too.

goodcanadian• 9 years ago

Due to surface tension, hitting water at speed is actually worse than hitting concrete. As a sibling comment stated, from his injuries, he almost certainly landed feet first. His shattered feet and hips absorbed enough of the impact that he was able to survive. The unopened chute would also have slowed him down somewhat [EDIT: and presumably served to orient him "properly" for landing].

lwansbrough• 9 years ago

Water is likely worse because if you get knocked out you’re gonna drown.

You want to maximize your surface area and protect your head. Let your body absorb as much of the impact as possible: Land almost horizontally, with your feet hitting first and your head hitting last. This way, you might only break every bone in your body instead of dying.

unicornporn5• 9 years ago

While not nearly as dramatic, this story reminds me a serious accident I had in my early childhood. For a long time I thought that perhaps I did die and that I had continued life in a near identical parallel dimension while leaving friends and relatives mourning in the one I had been born in.

I wonder if this thought ever occurred to the pilot.

A fantastic read.

anonymouslee• 9 years ago

Anathem by Neal Stephenson explores this idea towards the very end. Doesn't give it much time but obviously it's hard to interpret from our end.

unicornporn5• 9 years ago

Thank you. I was kind of hoping someone would have suggestions for further reading. :)

empressplay• 9 years ago

This is known as "quantum immortality" [0]

[0] https://simple.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quantum_immortality

unicornporn5• 9 years ago

Thank you!

borkabrak• 9 years ago

I guess we're wandering a bit from the topic, but I used to feel the same way about, of all things, that childhood pastime of spinning around with your arms out. I spent more time than I'm comfortable specifying believing that every revolution put me in a slightly different universe, and that in order to get back, I'd have to perform exactly as many counter-revolutions in the opposite direction.

While this may sound insanely OCD, I remember thinking that I didn't have to get the number of counter-revolutions exactly right -- within a half-dozen or so should be "good enough".

I guess I was an imaginative child.

unicornporn5• 9 years ago

Haha, wonderful. It's a an appealing thought I must say. What if the the "right" maneuvers in space actually open inter-dimensional portals. Sounds like we could've made good friends.

dba7dba2• 9 years ago

Two other incredible stories of men who jumped without a parachute from burning/crashing planes from tens of thousands of feet up in the sky and survived.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alan_Magee Alan Magee survived a 22,000-foot (6,700 m) fall from his damaged B-17 Flying Fortress. He was a ball turret machine gunner. Hit glass ceiling of a railway station which supposedly broke the fall.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nicholas_Alkemade Nicholas Alkemade survived, without a parachute, a fall of 18,000 feet (5,500 m). He was serving as a rear gunner in a Royal Air Force Avro Lancaster. His fall was broken by pine trees and a soft snow cover on the ground.

About non-functioning parachutes. I was reading "Flying Low" by B.K. Bryans who became a US Navy Jet pilot around mid 1960's. When he was going through his training in propeller driven training planes, a fellow student pilot bailed out of a trainer but fell to his death when the parachute didn't open. The trainer plane had no ejection seat so the student pilot had bailed out the old fashioned way, which required pulling a cord of the parachute manually after exiting the plane. His parachute tragically didn't open.

The base commander dropped 10 randomly selected parachutes from the base and NONE opened. A rigger from another airbase nearby was brought in and all the parachutes were all repacked.

jaclaz• 9 years ago

Another one: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ivan_Chisov

The debate is whether in this case what made the difference (apart the "luck" of landing on a snowy ravine) was that the pilot was unconscious (like in the Magee case), i.e. with all his body completely "relaxed", and this somehow mitigated the impact (in comparison to someone who "prepares " for the hit).

jafingi• 9 years ago

What a great story!

peterburkimsher2• 9 years ago

In case (heaven forbid) this ever happens to you, try to find a piece of wreckage to use to fly, like a maple seed.

The Free Fall Research Page: Unplanned Freefall? Some Survival Tips by David Carkeet

http://www.greenharbor.com/fffolder/carkeet.html

Reading these articles is very personal to me, because I crashed my parapente on takeoff on what would have been my second solo flight. I still want to take up training again, but I need a new coach who I trust to tell me when the wind's strong enough.

deepsun• 9 years ago

Hm, you must be able to tell it yourself, you're the pilot, not your coach. In parachuting that's even one of the questions for test -- who's the final authority during flight:

A. Your coach. B. The most experienced pilot on site. C. You (the pilot). D. Parachuting club owner.

For paragliding there's USHPA ratings, feel free to study them: [1]. For example in 12-02.13 there's requirements for P1 (Novice Pilot) rating, and recommended operating limitations for them:

1. "Should fly only in steady winds of 12 MPH. or less."

[1] https://www.ushpa.org/legacy/documents/sop/sop-12-02.pdf

peterburkimsher2• 9 years ago

I spent 2 months salary over the course of 6 months to train with an unlicensed coach who is not an official USHPA instructor. He was trying to sell me his old gear that hadn't passed safety inspections in over 5 years. Several people warned me against training with him.

Why did I continue? There's no other English-speaking coaches in the south of Taiwan. Also, his training was the only one I could afford. I really want to learn to fly.

"I need a new coach who I trust" is more related to the other issues than the relatively minor incident where I ended up in a tree. I accept my share of the responsibility for attempting that takeoff, and I'm grateful that it didn't result in serious injury. When it happened though, it was an appropriate time to call off the course and stop that con man from trying to sell me unsafe equipment.

And, back to the topic, it means I have a personal sense of how terrifying it can be when a parachute doesn't inflate.

brendanw• 9 years ago

The human body can sustain a surprising amount of damage and still carry on.

Three different wingsuit pilots have survived unintentionally crashing into trees with no parachute out now:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kp3YLdhraPw

https://vimeo.com/50817449 (view at 6:35)

http://www.basejumper.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?post=2994...

And then you have Jeb Corliss crashing full speed into a mountain and surviving:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=92-fNtnewxc

bartread2• 9 years ago

Sadly these near miraculous cases are vastly outnumbered wingsuit accidents where the jumper was killed.

Your chances of surviving a wingsuit, or any kind of BASE jumping accident are considerably worse than your chances of surviving a single round of Russian roulette with five rounds in the cylinder, even if you're the only player.

simooooo2• 9 years ago

Wouldn't you being the only player increase the chances of shooting yourself?

Piskvorrr6• 9 years ago

That is indeed an incredible amount of dumb luck: hit the mountain with his legs, and there wasn't anything to hit directly after he tumbled. A few milliseconds' timing difference, and either clear pass or dead on impact.

gargravarr• 9 years ago

That's the first thing I thought when I read about his injuries - the human body is remarkably fragile in most instances, but when it comes to the crunch, something often allows it to take a truly staggering amount of injury without dying. Some people's survival abilities are astonishing.

Sadly a lot of it is down to chance - speed and angle he hit the water, for example - and would be very difficult to ever repeat.

eksemplar2• 9 years ago

Why are fighter pilots such extraordinary story tellers?

twright0• 9 years ago

You only read the stories written by pilots who are good story tellers; nobody shares the rest.

eksemplar2• 9 years ago

True, and it's anecdotal, but I've seen quite a few good stories from various fighter pilots and I honestly can't think of something similar from other lines of work.

I mean, I've obviously seen good storytelling from journalists and writers, but they've often spent lifetimes honing their craft.

I wonder if it's the focus and awareness that gives pilots such a potential.

dredmorbius2• 9 years ago

Survivor bias. Squared.

icebraining• 9 years ago

“Great stories happen to those who can tell them.”

EADGBE3• 9 years ago

Oddly, good storytellers also don't have a spleen. Weird.

jacobush• 9 years ago

Nice catch! I think they practice in bars

SolarNet• 9 years ago

Besides the obvious selection/survivor bias of good stories. It's likely that if anyone of a population (like say the airforce) is going to have good story telling it's going to be the ones that are the best out of that population in applying themselves (like jet fighter pilots). E.g. I doubt it's that they are good story tellers, I would bet that it's that they are just good at anything they do through applying themselves.

sideshowb• 9 years ago

Practice! All they ever do in the bar is tell flying stories...

nopzor• 9 years ago

Because they tend to have big egos (even fighter pilots will admit that ;-) and spend a lot of time telling flying stories.

subroutine• 9 years ago

If you like to read about stories like this check out this wikipedia page:

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_sole_survivors_of_airline_accidents_or_incidents

I think it's even more amazing when it's a commercial flight and everyone dies except one person. I can't imagine what sort of psychological toll that would have.

dmitrygr• 9 years ago

One important note is that this was NOT free fall as you'd expect. The pilot chute is still pretty large and provides a LOT of drag. Instead of 120mph, you'd be falling near ~90mph with just it behind you. That is 44% less kinetic energy!

varjag• 9 years ago

It also orients the body for more favourable touchdown vs randomly tumbling.

CryptoPunk• 9 years ago

44% is a big difference. Given the damage his body sustained, I think he would have certainly died if the kinetic energy hadn't been reduced by that magnitude. Every other story I've heard of someone surviving a fall from these kinds of heights involved a parachute not opening but remaining attached.

brazzy• 9 years ago

Here's one that involved the entire plane seat rather than a parachute: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Juliane_Koepcke

rconti2• 9 years ago

He mentioned not preparing for the impact. How would one even prepare for an impact if one wanted to? Ground or water, I just can't think of a good way to land. Anyone have any insight?

jules-jules• 9 years ago

Someone posted this earlier. It gives insight into how one could increase chances of survival during a free fall

http://www.greenharbor.com/fffolder/carkeet.html

nawgszy• 9 years ago

I think about this sometimes. Ground, I have no answer, you seem like you will die. Perhaps landing legs first allows you to use those as a crumple zone.

Water, though, isn't the pencil dive the clear winner? Everything else would decelerate you so much faster that it would be bound to cause injuries. The only downside (relative to all other methods of impact) I can imagine is how far underwater you might end up.

I would be happy for someone to tell me otherwise, but this is my completely theoretical summation of a terminal velocity water-landing.

tempestn3• 9 years ago

Yes, I was thinking the same. The un-deployed main chute was probably providing some drag as well. (But the pilot chute would be the main thing.)

baby2• 9 years ago

For non-americans: 15 000 feet is 4.5km.

PaulRobinson• 9 years ago

I am a non-american, and understand the concept of 15000 feet. :)

The only countries not to use feet as a measure of altitude for aviation purposes are China, DPRK and Russia. They use metres.

baby2• 9 years ago

Ah I didn't know that, so pilots in France use feet as a measure for aviation altitude?

PS: wow, interesting https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unit%C3%A9_en_aviation

jacurtis• 9 years ago

Most airliners cruise at 30,000 feet. So its half the height that you cruise over the Atlantic at.

pawelos• 9 years ago

Related HN submission, great read as well: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13839177

wiz21c• 9 years ago

>> For the first time, I felt panic softening the edges of my determination.

Given the situation, he's got some balls.

Unknoob• 9 years ago

I panicked just by reading the story. Can't even imagine what I'd do if something like that happened to me.

NoGravitas• 9 years ago

"Cliff Judkins of Earth, you have the ability to overcome great fear! Welcome to the Green Lantern Corps!"

gadders• 9 years ago

The woman in this court case [1] managed to survive a double parachute failure (ALLEGEDLY caused by her husband) from 4,000ft, partly because she managed to land on a ploughed field which was relatively soft:

[1] http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/10/04/army-sergeant-hav...

ForFreedom• 9 years ago

Thats an awesome read!!!!!

Will a passenger from a passenger airline survive if falling from 15,000 feet?

uitgewis• 9 years ago

Unlikely. The only reason he was able to survive IMO is that his pilot chute deployed, slowing him down.

tim333• 9 years ago

Survival without a chute seems to involve hitting some large object that slows you like a tree or a bendy roof.

Here's a pic of the roof that saved one guy http://cdn2.fella.com/2016/06/20151717/Magee-11.jpg

(https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alan_Magee)

neurotech12• 9 years ago

Its been known to happen, although extremely rare.

Bahia Bakari https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bahia_Bakari https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yemenia_Flight_626

Juliane Koepcke https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Juliane_Koepcke https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LANSA_Flight_508

Vesna Vulovic https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vesna_Vulovi%C4%87 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/JAT_Flight_367

Dowwie• 9 years ago

I've experienced this, metaphorically

wolfkill2• 9 years ago

I had a friend in high school who's father survived a skydiving accident "breaking every bone in his body." What made the biggest impression on me was that not only did he have to recover physically, but he had to deal with inability to work and medical bills leading to bankruptcy and a failed business. It may have been the first time in my life I thought about this kind of consequences.

delvinj2• 9 years ago

I did a tandem jump from 10,000 ft when I was a teenager. We exited the plane while flying through clouds (which is illegal IIRC) and tumbled out of control for the entire free fall period before the chute opened.

The exit was my fault. To initiate a jump, the pilot would count down from three and then scream "GO". With the door open it was very difficult to hear. Clouds were forming and we had already aborted twice, with my partner pulling us back into the plane each time.

On the third attempt I misread the shouts and hand signals and exited the plane before "GO". I was taller and heavier than my tandem partner so he probably had no choice.

We tumbled into thick, gray clouds. Without a horizon this made me nauseous. My partner was screaming from the moment we left the plane. I'd catch a word or two but most of his instruction was lost to the wind. We were totally out of control.

We exited the cloud still tumbling, my partner still screaming. I remember the chute opening, but we were never properly in control.

The next few minutes were glorious, though still nauseous, and the landing was uneventful.

I didn't think much of the consequences back then... But no more skydiving for me :-)

the_nozzle• 9 years ago

... which means you had a shitty tandem instructor . Shortly after a tandem pair leaves the door the instructor chucks a drogue which slows your terminal velocity to that of a single person and basically suspends the whole setup. Once that happens getting out the belly to earth position is basically impossible. The whole pulling back and description of your experience gives me an impression you were at a really sketchy drop zone.

odammit3• 9 years ago

That’s pretty wild. For another good falling from the sky story check out this woman that fell two miles after a commercial airliner broke up in the air[1]

1. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LANSA_Flight_508

odammit3• 9 years ago

Found the podcast I originally heard this story on. It’s a good listen.

https://www.futilitycloset.com/2017/07/10/podcast-episode-16...

DeerSpotter• 9 years ago

This is a interesting quote, googling it only shows this article, did the person writing the story make it up, or is this actually a saying that "some" say.

“Some days you are the dog and others you are the fire-plug.”

philjr• 9 years ago

"Some days you are the dog, some days you are the tree / fire hydrant" is the canonical quote.

I would assume the fire plug is the name of one of the things that failed while he refueled. Doesn't quite go together in my head, but once you understand the original quote it makes sense. Some days you're on the giving end, some days you're on the receiving end.

techsupporter• 9 years ago

At least where I’m from (Texas, where the story teller at least spent time), hydrants are called fire plugs. I’ve no idea why but that’s what I know them as.

cooltechguy• 9 years ago

I dont know what to say whether its scary or awesome.

Insanity• 9 years ago

Came across this on 'Hot Network Posts' on the Stackexchange network: https://aviation.stackexchange.com/questions/44740/why-cant-...

Asked because of reading this article.

hutzlibu• 9 years ago

Morale, sometimes just everything goes wrong.

But if you stay calm, despite thinking it is hopeless and take your small chances, once they arise - you might actually succed and survive ..

lilbobbytables• 9 years ago

Good takeaway.

I believe that's a core part of the training for Navy SEALS.

They push you far past your "breaking point" to realize that it isn't where you thought it was, helping you learn to keep your head about you when in extreme situations.

Mitchhhs6• 9 years ago

I was once in a plane crash in which the wing of our small plane hit the mast of a sailboat that was motoring in front of the runway and we didnt see it. We impacted the seawall and flipped over onto land and slid upside down a few hundred feet.

The author's description of both not feeling his injuries until he tried to move as well as his own recognition of not being dead were spot on. I would have described it exactly the same way myself. I ended up with a broken foot and leg, but overall no lasting damage which was extremely lucky. Looking back on that experience is always incredibly surreal.

clamprecht3• 9 years ago

Wow, where did this happen - which airport?

Mitchhhs6• 9 years ago

Peter O Knight Airport, Tampa, FL. Heres some coverage of the incident:

http://www.tampabay.com/news/publicsafety/accidents/two-hurt...

codingdave• 9 years ago

It is amazing how little you feel immediately after an accident. Mine wasn't so death-defying, but I did shatter my shoulder in a bicycle accident, and called a friend to come get me and drive me and my bike home. I did not realize I was hurt until he got there, and could not stand up or move the left half of my body. Then we decided to go to the hospital instead of my home. But for about the first 10 minutes, I thought I just was just scraped up a bit...

simooooo2• 9 years ago

Shattered my shoulder in a bicycle accident too!!

3 mins after, a ski medic was shuffling pieces of bone around in my shoulder and saying "i think its dislocated" all without any pain but feeling very badly winded. Adrenaline is impressive. Morphine is the best

cr0sh• 9 years ago

I didn't break anything, but I'm amazed that I didn't when I had a bicycle accident several years back.

I was doing something real stupid - mid 30's, showing off to my wife, on a bike with Amerityres; I had just gotten those tires installed. They're great tires - solid tires, but feel like they are aired up. Well worth the price.

What I wasn't told was that you shouldn't do any kind of "jumps" with your bike...

So there I am showing off, and I decide to ramp off this one section of sidewalk (that actually made a good ramp). I landed, and that's when things went to hell.

Ya see, Amerityres don't deform like a regular tire does. Instead - they come off the rim. I went a$$-over-teakettle.

To this day I don't know all what or how I landed, but I do know my knee took the brunt for some reason. I came within inches of slamming my head into a concrete block retaining wall for the raised bed of the neighbor's lawn that was next to the sidewalk. The bike was totally mangled. My wife was horrified.

Now - I knew I had taken a good spill, but I thought "well, dust yerself off, laugh about it" - which I did. I told her I was fine, go home and grab my pickup so I can get home. As she biked off, I decided I would get up, and walk the bike home. I slung it up on my shoulder, and started to walk (note, this was a cheap walmart bike, and weighed a bit). Everything seemed ok. She eventually got to me, I put the bike in the back, then slumped in the passenger seat. We went home, then went inside.

We started to discuss what we were going to have for dinner (KFC, if I remember right), when I looked down at my knee...

...it was swollen to the size of softball! It didn't really feel that good, and I could barely walk on it.

We went to urgent care that night. They xray'd me and told me nothing was broken. Gave me a script for vicodin (yay), wrapped up my knee, and gave me a crutch. I hobbled around for a few weeks, and eventually all was better, with no problems in the leg since.

But in the immediate aftermath of the crash, I had no idea just how bad I was injured, nor the amount of pain I would feel. I was just walking along, carrying my bike on my shoulder, like no big deal.

I guess a lot of accidents are like that, if serious enough; probably some kind of survival holdover tactic to allow you to "get away" and to safety after an injury (or worse) a predator attack.

joejerryronnie• 9 years ago

Back in high school, my ear got cut nearly in half in a car accident. I didn't feel a thing until the paramedic jammed and taped a styrofoam restraint against my ear as a precaution for neck injuries. Apparently, the full range of pain free neck motion vs the gouts of blood gushing from my ear wasn't convincing enough.

Cryptid• 9 years ago

As soon as you said this I thought of Peter O. Knight and the Davis Island Yacht Club. I used to watch the planes land as we derigged our dinghies.

edraferi• 9 years ago

The main, 24-foot parachute was just flapping in the breeze and was tangled in its own shroud lines. It hadn’t opened! I could see the white folds neatly arranged, fluttering feebly in the air.
“This is very serious,” I thought.

sizzzzlerz2• 9 years ago

I bet that wasn't the first thing that came to mind.

krallja• 9 years ago

I think it was a euphemism for the actual words that came to his mind.

swayvil• 9 years ago

Goddamn! That was riveting!

thecrazyone• 9 years ago

As I read it, I thought this is such a well written piece (I thought the author was the pilot himself), and that the pilot must be insanely talented because not only was he a fighter pilot (which requires skill) but he was an adept writer as well.

Then I later realized that this was a chapter from a book. Whew! the tale has got my heart pumping. This is some amazing narration of an amazing incident

corford• 9 years ago

I think it was written by the pilot (Cliff Judkins). The book is a collection of stories from 'forty-five Crusader' pilots.

hellbanner2• 9 years ago

Why did "He was unable to tune to their radio frequency for communications. But this ingenious pilot lowered a wire from his aircraft and dragged it across the bow of the minesweeper, the USS Embattle. The minesweeper captain understood the plea, and veered off at top speed in my direction.)" work?

Did they just figure out something was wrong or is dragging a wire a common naval code?

dbdr• 9 years ago

Supposing it's not a common naval code, it's strange enough behavior that the captain would think it must mean something, and "follow me" is the best intuitive interpretation I can see, though by no means obvious.

hellbanner2• 9 years ago

That makes sense. I guess you have to have some wits about you on the high seas.

module0000• 9 years ago

This guy's ability to keep calm is incredible. He's falling after being sucked out of the cockpit with a useless parachute, and his remark is:

```“This is very serious,” I thought.```

This is balls of brass and nerves of steel combined.

theyregreat• 9 years ago

It sounds like Marine pilot flight-gear of the time didn’t include a reserve ‘chute. Is that right?

fnwx17• 9 years ago

The main, 24-foot parachute was just flapping in the breeze and was tangled in its own shroud lines. It hadn’t opened! I could see the white folds neatly arranged, fluttering feebly in the air. “This is very serious,” I thought.

How can someone be so calm in that situation?

Nerves of steel, bravo!

kwoff• 9 years ago

Amazing story. He mentioned that that doctor was "high-lined" over from another ship. Am I right that that's a "zip-line"? (TIL also that High Line is a "park" in Manhattan.)

I Fell 15,000 Feet and Lived

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