Apple Introduces the iPhone 6S and iPhone 6S Plus

http://techcrunch.com/2015/09/09/apple-introduces-the-iphone-6s-and-iphone-6s-plus/

by chrisked • 11 years ago

181 323 11 years ago

techcrunch.com

nodivbyzero• 11 years ago

3D Touch - what does it mean?

bpicolo• 11 years ago

Hardware-accelerated click-and-hold.

ihuman• 11 years ago

It is force touch, basically.

pilif• 11 years ago

Craig even used the term by accident

snegu3• 11 years ago

Seems to me it allows something like hover states on mobile.

flog• 11 years ago

Well they've just made right-mouse-click context menu's.

inversionOf2• 11 years ago

Theoretically it means that the screen senses pressure in addition to location(s) (note that all capacitive screens do this already, where pressure is proxied by size of touch, which is useful with big meaty fingers but is arguably less precise. Android publishes this, since version 1.0, as "force"). The demos are a little odd, though, as all seem to be primarily about the difference between taps and long presses, being entirely defined by touch time rather than pressure.

chx• 11 years ago

Is http://developer.android.com/reference/android/view/MotionEv... this what you mean?

xarjklo2• 11 years ago

Fancy context menus.

kosmic_k• 11 years ago

Using capacitive touch sensors the iPhone6s measures the tiny flexing of the front screen as you touch it. Pretty clever actually.

bzudo• 11 years ago

No more home button in iPhone 7?

masklinn15• 11 years ago

Tactile feedback and touch force recognition, so Force Touch for iphones.

carlosrg• 11 years ago

Right click for touchscreens.

jalcide• 11 years ago

I'd love to see the lightest, regular swipe and tap act as a mouse on-rollover hover state and the slightly harder swipe scroll the page.

The harder press would be the on-press and on-release states.

I miss all of those interaction states, with multi-touch.

Not only will Apple not do that, but we won't even have the options to do so. It'll be all about new, gimmicky peek and poke style gestures. I'm sure they'll be nice, though.

xd1936• 11 years ago

Why are all of the top links to TechCrunch? They're the worst.

seiji7• 11 years ago

HN just really really loves AOL.

dang• 11 years ago

It's usually pretty random which particular versions of a story get traction here, especially when there's a media burst of roughly equivalent articles.

If people suggest significantly better sources, we can edit the URLs.

zxcvcxz• 11 years ago

TechCrunch shills.

Navarr2• 11 years ago

Very curious as to the intuitiveness of the variations in tapping. 3D Touch seems neat.. but I'd have to use it personally to know whether or not its a revolution, or an Amazon Fire Phone-esque gimmick.

masklinn15• 11 years ago

The shortcuts on the homescreen looked real useful (though they would depend on what the application developer decided to add as quick jumps), and I've done the "open message/back to list/open message/back to list" way too often

Navarr2• 11 years ago

I have too but requiring my finger to be touched (over top of the message) doesn't seem like it'll benefit.

The shortcuts are nice, though.

bane3• 11 years ago

I hate the name, but the 3d touch is a nice interaction model. I really like peaking as a UI metaphor. It helps slice through layers of information without committing to the next layer.

edit and you have to be fucking kidding me with 16GB base models...

edit2 oh, I get it, it's a push for iCloud storage, lame

snegu3• 11 years ago

That's what hover has done on desktop for a while now. This is not a new concept, just new tech allowing us to do it on touchscreens.

vowelless• 11 years ago

Why not just call it force touch, like the macbook? Craig Federighi even had a slip and referred to 3d touch as force touch.

steckerbrett• 11 years ago

Yeah that was definitely a late change.

bane3• 11 years ago

Side note along with this thought, I feel like Apple is going through some kind of naming transition in its lineup:

Mac<thing>: e.g. Macbook, MacBook Pro, Mac Pro

i<thing>: iPod, iPhone, iPad, iSight

Apple <thing>: Apple watch, Apple pencil

I think the Apple one is the worst, because <thing> seems to be common non-trademarked words and has a weird marketing exec "let's get the branding out there!" strategy.

And now it kind of smells like they might be thinking about going to a "Smart <thing>" naming scheme.

It makes calling things kind of hard and schizophrenic, most people just default to i<thing> when they don't know what to call it. I hear iWatch at least once a week.

c542• 11 years ago

I'm guessing the more layered tap vs press vs press-harder interaction is why they decided to rebrand it or give it the different name

wpietri• 11 years ago

I've never liked that name; it sounds creepy. "Show me on the doll where he force touched you."

Watabou3• 11 years ago

You can tell they changed the name to 3D touch very late in the development. Most of them probably still call it Force Touch.

I liked the name Force Touch. A little creepy, sure, but it made sense, and basically told you what to do.

amyjess• 11 years ago

Because "Force Touch" is just waiting to turn into a PR nightmare: at some point, people are going to jokingly call it "Bad Touch", and it's going to turn into a widespread meme that embarrasses Apple.

matthewmcg2• 11 years ago

Often when a company has to switch to a less obvious name at the last minute, it's because of trademark issues. There is already a registration covering "ForceTouch" as an input method for computers.[1]

[1] https://tsdr.uspto.gov/#caseNumber=85616589&caseType=SERIAL_...

camillomiller• 11 years ago

Curiously enough, that's how huawei is calling their implementation on the mate s (which won't be available on those phones until early 2016)

mrep• 11 years ago

Sue them, the Jedi will

wjoe• 11 years ago

Sounds like it would be very difficult to get right. I can imagine a lot of false positives where I want to do a normal click, but I happen to press lighter than usual so it registers it as a "peek". Maybe they'll do it well enough that this doesn't happen, and maybe it's just something you'd get used to after a while, but to me it's a bit of "trying to be too clever", but then I'm the sort of person that disables things like auto-rotate for that reason.

cwilson• 11 years ago

Have you tried force touch on an Apple watch? There is definitely a big difference between the two there. I've never once messed it up.

digikata2• 11 years ago

Though I think I'd like 3D touch just fine, I feel like it will be a difficulty to provide support for less tech centric family members. Something like the left and right mouse buttons and single vs double click, now touch lighter/harder. Touch the icon, is everything blurry except for a little menu, no press lighter now...

arrrg4• 11 years ago

That’s the biggest worry, certainly, but I think it’s very possible to get this right. We do not yet know how this feels, but one positive indication that they payed lots of attention, to exactly this, one of the two central riddles to solve to get this tech right (the other being the places in the UI you use it and to what end), is that implementation details in the UI also telegraph how they want to communicate this feature.

So, first of all, there are three levels and the first level is a peek, nothing serious and totally non-committal. Frequently accidentally engaging this would probably still be super annoying, but if it happens once in a while and is also super responsive then that’s not a big deal. Making this first step non-committal is probably a big part of making this all work.

Second, the peek seems to show off some direct input based on force (with the preview dynamically resizing based on it), so that you are not blindly guessing the pressure you have to apply. This direct feedback is probably also a big part of the puzzle.

If they get that right and given their implementation (distinct, few and pretty clear and consistent places to force touch, at least within their applications, that all do predictable and understandable things) I think this is a winner and will make using everything much more of a joy to use. It could also suck. We don’t know yet. I’m just really happy someone is trying stuff like that. The vocabulary on touch devices we have is nice, but it is still sparse. Maybe this extension will work out, maybe it won’t. Either way, I’m excited.

dbot• 11 years ago

I remember when full-screen touch was a new concept. Blackberry tried to introduce a physical "click" with the BB Storm. It sounded like a good idea, but it practice it turned out to be unnecessary. Apple won the UI battle. Not sure if 3D touch is a step forward or step back.

angryasian• 11 years ago

I'm just reading the live blog, but can someone provide more details on how this works. To me it just appears to be a contextual menu based on long press of the app icon ? Is it something more than this ? I'm curious as to how this will effect when you want to move app icons.

themodelplumber• 11 years ago

Sometimes you don't want to have to worry about how long you're holding your finger down. It's much easier to control finger pressure than to guess how many seconds you have left before the screen changes fully into a new context.

bane3• 11 years ago

it looks like it's a light touch for "peek", regular push for normal things and hard push to turn a peek into a regular push

0x0• 11 years ago

It's not a long press, because a long press will usually start the rearranging-your-app-icons operation. So this is a distinct operation. I wonder how well it will work for non-techies?

wozniacki• 11 years ago

You can dump this link in VLC and still catch the tail end of the feed.

http://p.events-delivery.apple.com.edgesuite.net/1509pijnedf... [1]

[1] From a previous HN post:

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10192594

interpol_p6• 11 years ago

It's a linear reaction to the amount of force you apply. So it seems to be implemented in a number of ways. They demonstrated contextual menus, as well as peaking (holding with a bit of force) where you could then push harder to "pop" into the content or relax to go back to what you were doing.

It seems highly similar to the Watch — including the haptic feedback (which to me is an important part of what makes the interaction work on the watch).

interlocutor• 11 years ago

It is not discoverable. It is a power-user feature that makes the UI less obvious for ordinary people.

A lot depends on how developers use/abuse this feature. If only power-user features are hidden in the 3D-touch menu then it will be OK. But if ordinary features are only exposed via this menu then apps will become harder to use.

Watabou3• 11 years ago

I don't think so. If the ordinary user doesn't know about it, they won't care. They'll still continue to press as normal. When they do discover it, they'll try it again to see if they like it, if they don't they'll forget about that too and continue on with regular presses.

tsunamifury• 11 years ago

Its interesting to see Apple re-introduce 'modes' something that Jobs himself hated.

Things like right clicking, force/3D touching, or stylus's are specific modes that need to be activated and de-activated discreetly -- showing a separate set of otherwise non-discoverable features.

Tloewald2• 11 years ago

You're confusing modes with discoverability. Force touch isn't a mode but it is invisible if you don't know it's there. Jobs wanted discoverable, modeless user interfaces where possible (and he was right). Both the watch and force touch are horrible from a discoverability point of view.

bad_user2• 11 years ago

Personally I find the iPad Pro to be intriguing because of the stylus and the keyboard, as now it might actually be more useful than a paperweight.

When something is usable, that doesn't necessarily make it useful.

Karunamon• 11 years ago

Would someone explain to me why there's so much hate towards the base model? I really, truly don't understand what's wrong with offering an entry level device? I carry a 16GB 6+ and am quite happy with it.

wehadfun• 11 years ago

Its easy to blow through 16GB when you take 12MP live pictures of every cute thing your cat does. Removing pictures off of iPhone is way harder than it should be.

pdeuchler4• 11 years ago

Is control over your own data dead? Even if I use all cloud services I don't see 16GB being remotely reasonable for an age of HD photos, videos, unlimited music libraries (my spotify cache takes up 6GB alone). Even androids with microSD cards only go so big. If apple is serious about this push to using iCloud storage for everything I don't see myself using their products for much longer (and I've been a fanboi forever). Problem is I don't see a good alternative.

jandrese3• 11 years ago

It's not dead, but it costs an extra $100 or $200.

interpol_p6• 11 years ago

Isn't the alternative to just buy a bigger phone, which they also sell?

And to handle the backups yourself, import your own photos, store them wherever you like. None of this has changed as far as I can see.

IkmoIkmo3• 11 years ago

Absolutely it's dead as the default. Storage is for app repositories, i.e. software which tunes into the cloud which hosts actual data.

Note that's the default. It's still optional (e.g. pay $100-200 more for more storage, or buy seemingly increasingly more niche phones that offer SD card slots).

And of course the age old alternative, which is making a compromise. i.e. not store all and any music, video, photo etc on your insta-use phone. Instead keep old albums on an external drive in your home, just like movies you've already seen or movies you won't get to anytime soon. Or albums you rarely listen to. Compromise.

ohitsdom3• 11 years ago

I'm concerned about durability. Is 3D touch passive sensing, or is the screen/glass actually moving? IIRC, Force Touch physically depresses (which explains why they didn't call it Force Touch).

interpol_p6• 11 years ago

Their description in the keynote suggested that the micro-deformations in the glass were being detected by sensors embedded in the backlight.

hardtke• 11 years ago

I suspect 3D touch will cause more cases of iPhone induced tennis elbow. Matt Bonner (San Antonio Spurs) and I are two victims. Forcing us to press harder will trigger more cases.

feld• 11 years ago

iCloud storage doesn't help. Trust me.

/5c with 16GB and 0 free space... even with "optimize storage on phone" for photos enabled they still take up all my space

I have several gigs taken up by whatsapp alone and I do not want to delete my history.

ultimoo• 11 years ago

I think once app developers fully adopt 3D touch and Apple refines the iOS UX in future iterations to take complete advantage of the tech, it's going to be a huge improvement in how we interact with smartphones.

venomsnake• 11 years ago

With the app ecosystem stagnating (really - are you doing more things on your phone than in 2010) and the only new things that crop are differently flavored messenger apps - we are at the moment that we have to answer - what more can we do with the phones, not how to do it.

JustSomeNobody3• 11 years ago

Not trying to offend you, but have you had your hands on one yet? I don't think you can say this until you do. It may be crap. Well, it's Apple, so it's probably not crap, but maybe it actually won't make a <i>huge</i> difference.

masklinn15• 11 years ago

They already have it implemented in their watch and latest-gen trackpads, so there's that.

zyb09• 11 years ago

It's the first time we get a new interaction idiom since 2007 really. I think it will bring great changes and improvements to mobile app UIs. Adaption gonna take a while though, 2-3 years for it to be considered standard on iOS, another 1-2 years on Android, I'd guess. Also given it's from Apple the implementation will probably be rather solid.

roymurdock5• 11 years ago

Interested to hear whether people think the fragmentation/differentiation of the iPhone line is a good strategy or not. Where there used to be 1 flagship phone, there are now 4 different models, possibly 5 if they make a (c) version.

iPhone 6, iPhone 6 Plus, iPhone 6S, iPhone 6S Plus, iPhone 6c

What made the iPhone iconic was that there was one powerful and curated model, and that you trusted Apple to make design choices for you. You paid extra because you knew you were getting a quality phone, not the low-tier/hard to compare versions of the multitude of Android-based phone. Why move away from simplicity and curation?

drinchev2• 11 years ago

iPhones, marked with "S" are successors of the previous model and doesn't include any changes in their case.

roymurdock5• 11 years ago

Yeah, I understand the naming conventions (S = same case, different internals, C = cheap case, Plus = large) but my point is: why? Apple is supposed to think these design choices through and give the user whatever is best. That's what they've done in the past, and that's why they have such a strong brand.

abritinthebay2• 11 years ago

There's not 4, there's 2: the 6S and the 6S Plus.

Just two flagships. And they are differentiated on size, that's all.

This is no different to the 5/5C situation really (in fact, a clearer differentiation tbh).

The previous years models have always been available since the 3GS was released.

Seems like you're running about 6 years behind the times...?

roymurdock5• 11 years ago

If you have a product called the Widget v6, and the Widget v6 Plus, then you introduce the Widget v6X and the Widget v6X Plus, it's natural to think that these 4 different product are all versions of one flagship model: Widget v6.

Maybe this sort of taxonomy only confuses me?

atorralb• 11 years ago

but... does it bend?

prodmerc3• 11 years ago

Everything bends, there is no spoon...

jbrooksuk2• 11 years ago

I re-watched the Matrix only two days ago, so well made for '99!

Breefield• 11 years ago

Still no SD card slot?

So fucking irritating that more/less the primary way Apple does price differentiation for their product models is by locking you in at storage capacity sizes.

My life is a hell of iCloud + Dropbox backups & constantly deleting all media so I can keep all of 40 apps on my 16GB iPhone.

xutopia• 11 years ago

Is your time worth more that the cost of an upgrade? I'm not happy with the price but I upgraded to avoid wasting hours doing that juggling.

slg3• 11 years ago

Sometimes the mere existence of the base model causes some problems that can't be fixed with the existence of an upgraded option. This is a consistent problem in an enterprise environment. The base model is always the one purchased more frequently whether through BYOD or enterprise owned devices. This means that support staff has to spend a lot of time working with users to manage space.

dasp• 11 years ago

The 16GB base model wasn't sufficient for the 6/6+, and is even less sufficient now with the 4K videos and 50% more megapixels (which I imagine would be on by default).

In the previous models (5/5s, 4s) the base model provided enough memory for doing most things comfortably. Now you actually HAVE to get the intermediate model to do anything useful (unless you're in masochistic mood). So the intermediate model (costing $100 more) becomes the entry level model.

I would even go so far to say that the 16/64/128GB memory gradation, coupled with the slippery 6/6s (slip and break more often ==> more AppleCare purchases and/or service repair costs) are intentional.

I understand capitalism and all that, but this is just pure greed and they're not doing much to hide it.

salgernon2• 11 years ago

Computer makers, notably Apple although others are guilty of this too, have always shipped low end hardware to get you in the door. Like a car manufacturer offering low end engine for some models.

But in this case, how much is your time worth? If you're like most people hanging out on hacker news (assuming a tech career) its not unreasonable to expect your salary to be $100/hour.

If you're spending more than 2 hours mucking with moving things around, then perhaps your next phone purchase should consider how much time you're spending vs. the price of increased storage.

untog3• 11 years ago

The more general point is that the price difference between those models has next to nothing to do with the actual cost of storage, though. I bought a 16GB Android phone then bought a 64GB micro SD card for $30. That's a lot less than the $100 price bump on the iPhone.

But I digress. The 6S was clearly never getting an SD card slot.

cmsmith• 11 years ago

Base hardware is fine.

But the iPhone has shipped with 16GB minimum storage ever since the 4s four years ago. Since then the speed, resolution, and camera have all increased by at least one factor of two. All of these things also increase the storage requirements for photos and apps.

If I was the type of user who was satisfied with the base model of my old phone, and I buy the new base model and am not satisfied, then I am not going to be happy. I use my phone the same way I did four years ago. If I wasn't a 'pro' user then, why am I now?

prodmerc3• 11 years ago

So, you're saying, get an Android phone? :-)

watty• 11 years ago

I agree, it's kind of ridiculous. I don't own an iPhone but "support" my wife, mother and mother in law who ALL have major issues with space and iCloud space to the point where they have to pay for additional money.

The new iPhone 6S will make this issue much worse. 4K video, larger pictures, "live" pictures (oh god). The small memory on these devices and lack of SD is intentional to push iCloud and device upgrades.

kylec• 11 years ago

Apple will never put an SD card slot in the iPhone. If you're waiting for it, you'll be waiting a long time.

masklinn15• 11 years ago

Hell they're barely putting SD slots on laptops anymore.

letstryagain• 11 years ago

99% of people don't need an SD slot. Everything is wireless now, why bother with cards or cables or whatever? You're an outlier, not a normal smartphone user.

If you buy a new iPhone just get the 64GB.

josteink2• 11 years ago

So nothing new on the iPad, ATV and from what I can tell from this incomplete TC garbage, nothing new on the Iphone either.

Is that what we call a complete dud? Even worse than last year's event?

rimantas• 11 years ago

well, yes, not counting new iPad, new Apple TV with tvOS, not counting 3D Touch, there is nothing new. I just wonder, do people making these complaint even imagine, what new could there be?

josteink2• 11 years ago

All this has already been delivered in the form of a Samsung, Google or Microsoft product.

It's not new, except in the sense that now also Apple delivers it, a few years later than everyone else.

aantix• 11 years ago

It's nice to hear that the screen is becoming more durable. I've already broken one screen on my 6+ because I had it in my pocket and my jeans were a bit too tight and put a lot of stress on the phone.

seiji7• 11 years ago

Yeah, I was terrified of super-thin phone in super-tight pants and went with this last year: http://www.urbanarmorgear.com/collections/apple-iphone-6-plu...

It doesn't add unusable thickness to the phone and as a bonus it gives you more friction so if your hands are sweaty you're less likely to drop your $1,000 magic pocket supercomputer (completely smooth rounded corners look nice, but sure are slippery and drop prone).

kiddz2• 11 years ago

tldr: My mom has no idea what force touch is. She'd not going to get 3d touch.

I love all of this, but it seems to me that there is really becoming a divide in the type of people who can fully appreciate/employ the UI nuances? I'm not a photographer, and basically only use photoshop to crop and do bullish things. But I know there's a whole universe of things I could do, if I appreciated the power set tools.

I think that's where many "smart" products are going, but because they are distributed to the masses (unlike PS for instance), that divide means something else.

For some people this is going to make their "daily lives" more enjoyable. For another set of folks, perhaps equal in size even, I think a lot of this stuff will just go over their heads.

artursapek2• 11 years ago

I'm sure your mom will figure it out

HiYaBarbie• 11 years ago

My mom has no idea what force touch is. She'd not going to get 3d touch.

She'll get it if she uses it. It's not any more difficult than using the current touch gestures.

untog3• 11 years ago

She'll get it if she uses it.

If she means to use it. Not difficult to imagine people triggering this by accident.

thatswrong0• 11 years ago

Is that necessarily a problem? Things still work as they always have in iOS, and now users have more interaction options without compromising the old simplicity.

krazydad• 11 years ago

My mom also has no idea what right-click is. I showed it to her once and it blew her mind. Then she promptly forgot about it.

I figure as long as you don't hide essential functionality in your app's 3d-touch interface, and primarily use it for short cuts, you are probably okay...

kiddz2• 11 years ago

Yes, it's not that it's not discoverable, it's that it's easy to forget and/or unnecessary to remember.

arrrg4• 11 years ago

Apple blankets the planet with their ads. That's how they teach people about features.

How discoverable is Siri? It’s super obscure, nowhere to be found in the UI, you can only activate it via an obscure long-press.

Artemis2• 11 years ago

I hear people discovering it every day when putting their phones in their pockets

DuskStar• 11 years ago

and all iPhone models are made with a brand new Apple custom alloy, the same alloys used in the aerospace industry.

"Brand New" and "Same as used in X" - choose one. (I think this is just standard TechCrunch, not from Apple, but still rather irritating)

sbarre• 11 years ago

No, that's how they said it in the keynote.. I think they meant brand new as in "not the same as on previous phones".

porsupah• 11 years ago

It would indeed appear, by metallurgical analysis, that it does qualify as a 7000 series alloy, but one of Apple's own devising.

http://leancrew.com/all-this/2015/08/aluminum-and-strength/

aroch2• 11 years ago

7xxx series alloys are used in aerospace, Apple's alloying mix is apparently unique...making it a brand new alloy in the 7xxx series...

masklinn15• 11 years ago

It's basically what they said in during the presentation: it's a 7000 alloy as used in aerospace industries[0], and it's a new alloy (proprietary, not a standard spec). The apple watch also uses a proprietary 7000 alloy (whether it's the same alloy is unknown at this point)

[0] not solely, they're also used in bike frames. Basically 7000 is zinc alloys, and have the highest available tensile strength, rivalling low-level steels at a third the density.

devindotcom3• 11 years ago

An auspicious name, the "iPhone Success"

seiji7• 11 years ago

http://www.6smarketing.com/blog/weare6s/

slg3• 11 years ago

Higher resolution photos and video and somehow Apple is still going to have the 16 GB base model.

switch007• 11 years ago

The 16GB is only there to make you buy the more expensive model

kid0m4n2• 11 years ago

Or possibly, stats showed that a significant percentage of users don't even come close to filling up the 16 GB.

hugh42• 11 years ago

And then they charge an extra hundred bucks for an extra few bucks' worth of memory. Which is why I have the base model.

It's the same with the European cars. BMW or whatever will sell you (in this country) a tiny underpowered four-cylinder engine for $N. If you want the four-cylinder engine with more power it will be $N+10K, if you want a six-cylinder engine that doesn't feel sluggish it will be $N+20K, and if you want something that actually feels as fast as the car looks it'll cost you $N+30K.

Meanwhile you can buy a fast engine in a crate for about $5K.

slg3• 11 years ago

I wrote this elsewhere in this thread, but might as well copy and paste it here.

Sometimes the mere existence of the base model causes some problems that can't be fixed with the existence of an upgraded option. This is a consistent problem in an enterprise environment. The base model is always the one purchased more frequently whether through BYOD or enterprise owned devices. This means that support staff has to spend a lot of time working with users to manage space.

noer• 11 years ago

To make you pay for cloud storage?

chrisBob3• 11 years ago

"Live Photos" They must really want more people to start paying for iCloud Drive every month. That sounds like a big data hog compared to a single photo every time I hit the shutter button.

chrisBob3• 11 years ago

Wow. They actually helped out and increased the storage on each plan along with that. Now I get 50GB for the same $.99 I used to pay for 20GB.

zuppy• 11 years ago

... and kept the 16 GB base model.

xarjklo2• 11 years ago

https://youtu.be/H64jrtP8Cbk?t=2m1s

Live photos are not really "completely new technology", but I think Apple does it better, since most likely every Apple device plays the live photo.

devindotcom3• 11 years ago

This rebranding of video as "live photos" ("they can have sound!") is cracking me up.

JustSomeNobody3• 11 years ago

I think they should have left the name as Zoe.

ryandvm• 11 years ago

I know - we can call them "motion pictures"!

kid0m4n2• 11 years ago

Yep. 1.5s 12 MP videos (0.75s before and after) as "live photos".

superuser22• 11 years ago

For the same price, a video (or a still from a video) doesn't look nearly as good as a photo. The development here is packaging a high-quality still inside a video and doing compression in a way that doesn't kill the photo.

Think about it - why do professional photographers bother with shutters or try to time the perfect shots? Why not just constantly shoot video and pull frames out of it later? Because it would look like crap.

This wouldn't be hard to imitate. Record the live preview into a 3 second buffer. When the user presses the shutter, switch into still mode, take a real photo, wait 1.5 seconds, and then write both the buffer and the photo into the same archive. On playback, by default show the normal photo, but on whatever UI gesture, play the first 1.5 seconds of the video, then the photo for one frame, then the next 1.5 seconds of the video.

Only barrier I could see to re-implementing this on other phones is long wait times while the camera switches modes, during which information is lost.

firloop• 11 years ago

[W]hy do professional photographers bother with shutters or try to time the perfect shots? Why not just constantly shoot video and pull frames out of it later?

Photographers are doing this.

https://news.creativecow.net/story/879117

"RED cameras allow Inez and Vinoodh to simultaneously capture high-resolution images for their photographs along with their artistic videos"

devindotcom3• 11 years ago

I'm not suggesting people should take videos instead of photos. It was just ridiculous the way they trotted it out as a brand new and of course revolutionary idea, considering it has been done before and also is just video taken simultaneously with stills, something camcorders have done for a decade.

mplewis• 11 years ago

You're missing the point of live photos then. They're not supposed to be video, they're supposed to be photos plus a little extra.

nippoo• 11 years ago

Next up: "Live photos can now be 10 seconds long, for more information than ever before!"

NovaS1X• 11 years ago

I assume, by their explanation, that it's actually a normal 12MP still image, jpg/raw, and the "live photo" is an additional video along side the picture that opens seamlessly when you activate it.

Two separate files tied together by the UI.

That "Live Photo" will still be a normal jpg

mozumder2• 11 years ago

Nikon already has this for their consumer 1 series cameras. They call it Motion Snapshot.

makomk• 11 years ago

Canon has something similar too, though I think the video part on theirs is only 720p.

sxates• 11 years ago

Yes, and my Nokia windows phone has had this feature for a year.

pazrul• 11 years ago

I'm curious what exactly they mean when they say Live Photos are 'not a movie, it's a photo!' So what's the file format? How does one encode sound to a moving photo and not call it a movie?

seiji7• 11 years ago

You probably aren't cut out for marketing then.

mxfh• 11 years ago

This, but they missed the opportunity to call it a single I-Frame with only P-frames in each direction, if they actually did some effort in terms of compression efficiency.

Another thing is that any 4k capable codec is also probably magnitudes more space efficient than baseline jpeg for stills, with or without added temporal information.

cpr• 11 years ago

Sound as metadata, multiple frames in a single file pointed to by metadata? First "snapshot" frame the first, so works with normal software? Lotsa ways to play games.

interpol_p6• 11 years ago

Yeah I had that same confusion initially.

I guess they differentiate it as follows:

- It's the full photo data (12 MP) for each frame - It captures 1.5 seconds before and after you press the capture button - (Speculation based on a dot-point in the keynote) It's stored using some frame-to-frame compression thing, probably similar to a movie but with the option to recover any individual frame as a full size, full quality image

I reckon much of their photo technology comes from their acquisition of the SnappyCam app and that developer's custom JPEG encoding.

ohitsdom3• 11 years ago

I'm worried about what the 3D Touch does to the ruggedness of the phone. With two toddlers, I don't think this phone would last 3 months in my house, even with a case.

Or is 3D Touch somehow achieved with passive sensors?

antsar• 11 years ago

My interpretation of the keynote: The screen flexes a tiny bit when you press on it (which my iPhone 6 does as well, so this doesn't necessarily imply new materials). They now have sensors behind the screen to quantify the flexing, and translate that into "force".

ohitsdom3• 11 years ago

Interesting, didn't realize Gorilla Glass was designed to flex, but it seems that was an advertised feature of Gorilla Glass 3.

chrisBob3• 11 years ago

Why can't they just list the prices? Does anyone still get their phone under a 2 year contract anymore? I have no clue what "From $199" means.

DarkTree• 11 years ago

um.. yes? I can't imagine getting an iphone every year when you can just get one every 2 years for a third of the price.

smeyer2• 11 years ago

I'm not the sort of person to update phones every year (I've had my current phone for almost two years and the one before that for six years), but it's often cheaper to pay the flat price when upgrading every two years than to pay the reduced price with the contract. It all depends on how your carrier structures their plans.

robflynn• 11 years ago

You can take the "estimated monthly cost" that they showed and multiply by 24. i.e. $36/mo = $864. $32/mo = $768. It may not be exact but it should be close.

JustSomeNobody3• 11 years ago

What is the iPhone 6 going to do with iOS 9 w/out the, cough, 3D touch? How will that be handled? For instance, app switching, will it stay the same (double click the home button)?

solidr53• 11 years ago

It's in-depth. So developers will have to design and implement a middle step, hence nothing is lost. You'll see all details on press, snapshot on semi-press

tdaltonc• 11 years ago

The lack of discoverability in these new interfaces is alarming. Maybe they're just for super-users, but still.

edgall2• 11 years ago

How much RAM does it have?

I thought 16GB was bad in 2014 but it's just comical now considering the 4k and 12MP camera.

reiichiroh2• 11 years ago

2GB RAM.

the_mitsuhiko• 11 years ago

Source?

hutattedonmyarm• 11 years ago

I think you're mixing up RAM with storage.

edgall2• 11 years ago

I was referring to the 16GB storage.

The RAM should hopefully be at least 2GB.

colmvp• 11 years ago

Surprised no one here mentioned A9 and the updated camera. As a person upgrading from an iPhone 5, I'm pretty excited.

Nib• 11 years ago

IDK, but really the Force touch adaptation, renamed 3D touch(surprise surprise) is a nice touch, but really, I wonder if it's worth buying a new iPhone. I guess, at least with me, it's a somewhat privacy issue. Imagine your favorite apps revealing 25% of what you do on an app simply by holding your phone's home screen. Moreover, I often hold/touch my phone in different manners, like, asleep, just-got-up, really angry, running-to-some-place. It'll be really irritating if this kind of a feature got in my way while working. Most of us do NOT always use our phone's the way the advertisements expect us to.

dantillberg• 11 years ago

According to [0], these "phones" are 5.4 and 6.2 inches tall (not diagonally). 5.4 inches should not be the "small" size phone. That's huge. I have reasonably large hands and I really hate this about my phone (I have a Nexus 5, which is around the same size as the iPhone 6S).

Please, let's make us some smartphones that are nice and compact and small. Or at least medium.

[0] http://www.apple.com/iphone-6s/specs/

jfoutz2• 11 years ago

They must have needed a bigger battery to drive the faster A9 and the always on coprocessor. (M something?)

masklinn15• 11 years ago

The dimensions are almost exactly the same as the current gen 6/6+, the only big difference is weight which is a good 10% higher according to the tech spec pages[0][1]

iPhone 6: 5.44" x 2.64" x 0.27"; 4.55 ounces

iPhone 6S: 5.44" x 2.64" x 0.28"; 5.05 ounces

iPhone 6+: 6.22" x 3.06" x 0.28"; 6.07 ounces

iPhone 6S+: 6.23" x 3.07" x 0.29"; 6.77 ounces

[0] http://www.apple.com/iphone-6/specs/

[1] http://www.apple.com/iphone-6s/specs/

puranjay• 11 years ago

I've recently switched back to an old Nokia feature phone and holy shit, it's incredible when I hold it up to my ear...I can actually grab the entire thing in the palm of my hand.

jpkeisala• 11 years ago

Another amazing thing about old Nokia phones is the sound when you hear another person talking. I wish they could bring "good telephone" back to these smartphones.

ttkeil• 11 years ago

I've been hanging on to my iPhone 4S for this very reason. The battery is nearly shot after 4 years, but I would call that a pretty good run by today's standards (Take that, planned obsolescence!).

WildUtah2• 11 years ago

"it's incredible when I hold it up to my ear"

Why would you hold a phone up to your ear? Trying to take a photo of your ear canal or something?

Numberwang• 11 years ago

But if you had a small screen you would not buy any apps from apples store? You have not thought this trough.

ihowlatthemoon• 11 years ago

From what I see, Sony is the only manufacturer currently offering a high end phone at a smaller size with the Xperia Compact line. Still 5 inches tall though.

untog3• 11 years ago

I went from a Nexus 5 to a Sony Z3 Compact and haven't looked back. The form factor is so much more convenient, I really hope more manufacturers look at it again.

jscahefer• 11 years ago

The xperia compact series is an amazing line of phones, but also super fragile. I've destroyed two. both from "waist height" drops. Also, I couldn't find an otter box or other sufficiently protective case for it.

The touch screen is built in such a way that any small crack and half the screen or more stops accepting touch.

boondaburrah• 11 years ago

SHARP also makes compact high end phones. They seem to only sell them in Japan though - with the Aquos Crystal being the only time they tried in America recently. Unfortunately it's decidedly mid-range and tied to Sprint.

I love my Aquos SH-02F though.

sanderjd2• 11 years ago

Yeah, I can't wait for the backlash trend, where everything goes back to being smaller, but thinner this time.

I really wanted to sign up for Google Fi, but I want a phone, not a tablet.

masklinn15• 11 years ago

Sadly thinner and smaller means cutting down the battery by a lot.

jdc05892• 11 years ago

don't you ever suggest that manufacturers make things thinner.

They already have an inexplicable obsession with it. I'd rather have a slightly thicker phone and more battery

gambiter• 11 years ago

I still think of the scene in Zoolander where he takes the flip phone out of his pocket and it is about as big around as thumb. It was comedic at the time because manufacturers were trying to make smaller and smaller phones to differentiate themselves from the brick cell phones of the past, so this scene was mocking how far it could go. The irony is that now kids probably have no idea why it's funny because all phones are competing to offer larger and larger models.

I don't have a problem with the larger phones, personally, but I think it's interesting to see how quickly the industry has come full-circle.

tertius• 11 years ago

Agreed, I have an N5 and it's about as large as my hands can go. It could have a better display, but not a larger one.

I tried out the Moto X for about 3 months, like it a lot, display was just a little too big.

Now my wife has small hands and small fingers. She can't handle the N5 comfortable even.

I don't know the averages though.

roymurdock5• 11 years ago

I'll be holding on to my iPhone 5 until it bricks at this rate.

rancur5• 11 years ago

ok, so in the next software update when it slows way way down

rancur5• 11 years ago

specs

I'm just glad I can still laugh at Apple users for only having 1GB RAM.

and they can still laugh at me for even needing more than 1GB RAM.

dzhiurgis4• 11 years ago

iOS doesn't run in RAM, it's only bloated OSes like Android that need RAM. /s

_broody• 11 years ago

Yes, this is laugh-worthy. It's Apple's sneaky manner of building planned obsolescence into otherwise very competent devices. Just like my 4S, the brand spanking 6S+ will in a few years be choked by iOS updates's climbing RAM requirements. Not updating isn't an option either, as app updates demand the latest OS quickly afterward.

The iPad Pro is much more affected by this because it competes with Wintel devices. When you compare it to the Surface Pro, the later isn't considerably beefier except when it comes to RAM, which is enough on its own to give it double the life span...

unprepare• 11 years ago

Has the amount of RAM been confirmed?

I thought it usually was known once ifixit or similar did a teardown of the device.

jjtheblunt• 11 years ago

How would you fit an efficient antenna for pertinent and desired LTE frequencies bands in a frame too small to hold such an antenna? The speed of light is the speed of light, and so wavelengths of set frequencies are themselves set, and constrain the physical dimensions, no?

rsynnott2• 11 years ago

I was quite disappointed there was not iPhone 5S sized device. Will hold off on upgrading for a bit, then...

droidist23• 11 years ago

Same here, but will next year be any better?

mercer2• 11 years ago

I bought an iPhone 5S a while ago because of this, while I'd much rather have bought the iPhone 6. I really hope they come with a smaller model next time :-/. 3D Touch look useful.

(that said, I'm quite happy with the 5S. I don't have much need for what the 6 models offer.)

rajacombinator• 11 years ago

What's the line on force touch actually being useful vs. just hype? It's hard to resist the reality distortion field and not get excited from hearing about it, but I've been burned by the false promise of iPhone-S release cycles before ...

amatheus• 11 years ago

Well, they still sell a smaller phone, the 5S. I hope next year, when they no longer sell the 5S, they'll come with another model, maybe an iPhone Mini or 7C or whatever.

mrfusion• 11 years ago

Any improvements to Siri?

jbrooksuk2• 11 years ago

iOS 9 wasn't really spoken about, but yeah there are improvements coming.

droidist23• 11 years ago

What do you want improved about her?

amazon_not3• 11 years ago

Apple is going to make bank by turning into a bank. The installment plan with free upgrades each year is brilliant. The user lock-in is going to be unsurpassed and no competing phone maker has the mountains of cash required to match it.

kozukumi• 11 years ago

Yeah that was the biggest thing for me too. We knew what was coming with the iPhone, Apple TV and iPad Pro. That upgrade program is going to be a big thing in my opinion.

One thing I wasn't sure about though was do you own the phone or are you just leasing it? When you upgrade after a year do you have to return your old phone?

amazon_not3• 11 years ago

I can't image them letting you keep the old phone, as you haven't paid full price for it in a year.

EDIT: "Just trade in your current iPhone for a new one, and your new program begins."

Source: http://www.apple.com/shop/iphone/iphone-upgrade-program

eastbayjake• 11 years ago

I'm sure it will be turned back in, refurbished, and resold in developing markets

knd775• 11 years ago

If you upgrade after a year, that seems probable. After the full 24 months, I believe that it would be yours. Don't quote me on this, though.

rsync• 11 years ago

Both GE and GM turned themselves into banks. It ended poorly for both of them.

dave_sullivan• 11 years ago

Usually not a good sign when a company known for creating innovative real-world products shifts to creating innovative financial products.

Except for Berkshire Hathaway moving from textiles to being Warren Buffet's investment vehicle -- that was a good move...

amazon_not3• 11 years ago

I wouldn't really call an installment plan a very innovative financial product. And it's not like they'll stop making iPhones and focus on financing. It's just a power move to dominate the phone market and cement their lock on customers.

cx201• 11 years ago

That's actually how Porsche ended up in a position where it had to be 'rescued' (=bought) by Volkswagen during the last financial crisis:

http://priceonomics.com/porsche-the-hedge-fund-that-also-mad...

jwcooper• 11 years ago

They're not handling the financing. It appears to be going through Citizens Bank, and is an installment loan. [1]

And, if you were hoping to use someone cheap like Cricket instead of Verizon, no such luck there either:

"1. The iPhone Upgrade Program is available to qualified customers only with a valid U.S. personal credit card. Requires a 24-month installment loan with Citizens Bank, N.A. and iPhone activation with a national carrier — AT&T, Sprint, T-Mobile, or Verizon. "

[1] http://www.apple.com/shop/iphone/iphone-upgrade-program

reiichiroh2• 11 years ago

No USB 3.0 data transfer speeds?

mewwts• 11 years ago

They probably want us to use iCloud.

BinaryIdiot3• 11 years ago

It's 2015, they just added 4K recording and a higher megapixel camera and the base model is STILL 16GB? Is this a joke? I just can't understand that at all. That space is going to get used up so fast. Android manufacturers have the same issue so it's not like it's an Apple only problem.

The minimum at this point should be 32GB.

ralmeida2• 11 years ago

They've lowered the prices for iCloud storage, so you _could_ argue that keeping the base size at 16GB is a means to get more people to sign up for iCloud.

jandrese3• 11 years ago

That would be great if they also announced an end to data caps and high prices for cell service...

stumpf• 11 years ago

I believe this is a push to get users to use iCloud, for which they also announced pricing updates.

mozumder2• 11 years ago

16GB is fine. Lots of people don't even download apps.

BinaryIdiot3• 11 years ago

That's fine except, at least anecdotally, I've only seen photos and videos take up the majority of the space. I'm not sure what's typical of the average person but everyone I know with kids takes gigabytes and gigabytes of photos and videos every year with their phone.

hugh42• 11 years ago

It's fine for lots of people, but those aren't the people that Apple wants to target. The last thing Apple wants is people who find they can't download more apps and music (putting money into Apple's pockets) because they don't have enough space.

I need to keep a separate iPod because there's not enough room on my iPhone for much of my music collection. (I only have a handful of apps). And for what? An extra sixteen gigs of flash memory costs a few bucks nowadays.

rokhayakebe• 11 years ago

Lots of people don't even download apps.

Would you care to expand on this? Thanks.

chadgeidel• 11 years ago

A close friend has a 16gb iPhone 5 with no available storage. Where is all the storage used? Message history. I'm not kidding - zero non-default apps, very few photos, message history for presumably the entire time she has had an iOS device which consumes (according to iTunes) over 14gb.

The real kicker is Apple has provided no first-party way to extract images from message history.

(EDIT: I am aware of the "keep entire message history"/"keep 1 year message history" setting - we are trying to extract photos from backup using 3rd party software so we can flip that switch. This is very non-intuitive and requires the use of an external device)

Kiro3• 11 years ago

Speak for yourself. I don't install anything or take any photos with my phone. I just use it to make calls and browse the web so I very much doubt I will ever use up 16GB.

BinaryIdiot3• 11 years ago

Okay? I'm not sure what your specific usage really added to the discussion especially considering the camera phone is typically people's only camera nowadays so I feel like you'd be an outlier if anything. Photos and video already take up a huge amount of space on the phone; I don't even take a ton of pictures of my kids (my SO usually does) but even my phone, after 6 months of usage, has 3 gigabytes taken up in photos and videos. It goes really, really quick.

With 4K and 12 megapixels? It's going to go by so fast...

skc• 11 years ago

Then why buy an iPhone?

swinglock2• 11 years ago

It's so that they can reel you in with the lower price but end up selling you a much more expensive device for minimum extra manufacturing cost.

jonknee2• 11 years ago

Except many many people don't know any better and get the cheapest one (and then have trouble updating because there is no space).

zw123456• 11 years ago

Claims 23 LTE bands with up to 300Mbps, that means it is a category 6 LTE UE which means you will only get that if the carrier you are using has deployed Carrier Aggregation and you have a really really good signal and the you Carrier deployed backhaul that can handle that speed. So, don't hold your breath !

rebootthesystem• 11 years ago

I think a lot of this is going to boild down to whether people give a shit. A nicer way to put it is: Are these solutions for non-existing problems?

Yes, yes, we teck-heads can geek-out at the idea of a force sensing screen. We are not the market. The maket is the average Joe or Jane. And it is my impression Joe and Jane, for the most part, won't give a shit. I know plenty of people with 4s's who have not updated the OS in a while, no longer get any apps --free or otherwise-- and feel perfectly served with what they have. When we ask them if they'd be interested in spending several hundred dollars to upgrade, the answer is often monosyllabic: "Why."

Detrus• 11 years ago

For a better camera

I use an iPhone 4. Battery life went to hell at one point now it's back to being decent. It was a software problem.

Wouldn't mind it being slightly thinner, lighter, bigger with better screen and far better camera. But now the screens got too big.

nickpp• 11 years ago

Is the 6s plus screen still 1080p down sampled from the native resolution?!

redditmigrant• 11 years ago

To everyone here whose response to the 16GB model is that they are trying to push icloud, how do you transparently and painlessly free up storage on your device for photos/videos that are already backed up on icloud?

meesterdude• 11 years ago

All I wanted was more storage and longer battery life. Looks like I have another year to wait for those. Not to knock the other improvements, but storage and battery life are the two that bug me the most.

hmate9• 11 years ago

These Harry Potter images have already been done by Nokie: http://lumiaconversations.microsoft.com/2014/04/15/relive-th...

hitekker• 11 years ago

Unrelated to the tech: a Warhammer 40k spin-off as a launch game?

Here's hoping that this excellent, science fantasy franchise will hit the mainstream!

chiph• 11 years ago

Force Touch - I've had that feature for years - it's what I do when I get angry that the phone isn't responding fast enough.

IkmoIkmo3• 11 years ago

Who had to laugh when the guy was like 'live photos .... and they're not videos guys, really, believe me, repeat after me NOT videos, photos!'

Or when he was like 'this is based on revolutionary technology never seen before, and it's totally not half-a-vine, either, it's a new breakthrough, 3 second videos'.

I mean I don't even grin anymore when they say 'the iPhone 6 was the most popular iPhone.... EVER' or when they say 'the iPhone 6S is the best iphone... EVER' (no shit). I've gotten used to that level of hyperbole, but the rhetoric around the live photos was pretty ridiculous. (and I like it, too, I think it's a neat little feature that fits nicely in between photos and vines - the original massively-popular 7 second videos - the way it was presented was just way over the top.)

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