Why aren't we all using Japanese toilets?

http://priceonomics.com/toilets/#japanese

by rohin • 14 years ago

402 371 14 years ago

MrFoof2• 14 years ago

The US is a notoriously price-sensitive market. For a lot of folks, they wouldn't consider paying $1000+ for a toilet when the most basic American Standard can be found for about $125. A lot of people would find it hard to justify an order of magnitude price increase.

I know Boston has a Toto showroom in its North End, but I really cant consider it due to the rules of my apartment building.

jadc• 14 years ago

According to the article, there are devices that could be attached to existing toilet seats that cost 100$ or less. If they do work well (article claims that they have good reviews), then cost is not an issue.

runjake2• 14 years ago

If you read the full article, only the cheapo, probably ineffective solutions cost $100, you're looking more at $500 and up for a good unit.

And if you want a warmer, you'll need a GFCI outlet installed next to the toilet, which most US homes do not have. You'll want a warmer in many areas of the US during the winter.

So you're looking at quite a bit of cash there.

Edit: Please read what I wrote. I'm not saying most US homes do not have a GFCI outlet, period. I'm saying most US homes do not have a GFCI outlet next to the toilet.

Think about what you're saying before commenting. Are you going to permanently run an extension cord from the toilet over to the GFCI near the sink?

otakucode• 14 years ago

I would love a Toto toilet... but I cannot comprehend the price. We're talking about some tubes and pipes. That's doesn't cost $1000. Why someone can't produce their $1200 washlet for $50 is beyond me.

tomjen32• 14 years ago

How long does a toilet last? Ten years?

Then we are talking less than the cost of your internet connection (and we won't mention the cost of food, which is way more than that).

cowsaysoink• 14 years ago

Well I don't think people spend enough time on the toilet to justify an extra cost (save maybe IBS and toilet readers/surfers).

And right now toilets are fully functional for most people, mine aren't uncomfortable to me and are easy to clean and most repairs can be done quite easily yourself. Adding technology to that sounds like trouble and would likely require calling out a plumber to fix things.

mbreese• 14 years ago

But we focus more on the up-front costs rather than the cumulative costs. Think about the cell phone market - how many people will be happy to get a free phone, only to be subject to $50-100 monthly bill for 2 years.

jemka• 14 years ago

>Then we are talking less than the cost of your internet connection

Not if you consider the time value of money, which you should do when making any cost comparison.

MrFoof2• 14 years ago

Hey now, I'd have a Toto toilet if my apartment would let me install one. Problem is, they won't, because they don't want to deal with it when I move out.

joezydeco• 14 years ago

The tank and bowl itself will last 30-40 years no problem. There are no moving parts to the porcelain.

The valves and seals may need replacing, and the bowl should be kept clean to avoid staining, but I've never heard of someone replacing the entire unit every 10 years.

smackfu4• 14 years ago

The problem is that most people really don't think a fancy toilet would be any better than a normal one. Maybe even worse, based on the fancy and expensive low-flow toilets they've seen that don't work well. It's not a "pain point". So why would you spend any money on it at all?

icebraining• 14 years ago

That's mostly irrelevant. What you have to consider is the opportunity costs of forgoing food or internet compared the opportunity cost of settling for an 'old-fashioned' toilet. For me, at least, the former are much cheaper.

Groxx• 14 years ago

You can say that about almost anything, then. Your bedroom door: why not throw a thousand at it? You open and close it frequently, and that tiny squeak is ever so annoying. If you greased the hinge it would go away for a few months, but still, how long does a door last? Ten years?

Now substitute toilet for door, and wiping for greasing. Or sink, and running out of room or not having the nozzle high enough or having scratches. Do this a couple times and congrats, you've just paid enough for most Americans to buy a car - which is more important?

jws• 14 years ago

I bought a crazy expensive Toto when rebuilding the master bathroom because it was advertised to be quiet. Flushing sounded like you were using depth charges. A stream of plumbers, contractors, and sales reps came to look at the installation and eventually decided Toto must have changed something in that model, and swapped it for a mere mortal toilet that won't wake the entire household at night.

Maybe their brand hasn't earned enough credibility to command the prices.

dsr_• 14 years ago

If you sit too much and you've got hemorrhoids.... get one. Now.

gnosis• 14 years ago

Better advice might be to move around more and get more fiber in your diet. Better yet, see a doctor!

stcredzero2• 14 years ago

Metamucil is great, and without drawbacks in small doses with enough water. I will testify that it can solve such problems as discussed above for programmers. Plus, the extra fiber gives you guts of steel, which can gracefully deal with almost any rich food.

davidandgoliath2• 14 years ago

And try 'squatting' when going to the bathroom. Google :)

swampthing3• 14 years ago

I might in the paranoid minority on this, but here are some concerns I have:

* How does the toilet know that everything is clean? With toilet paper, you can just wipe with new toilet paper until there is no more residue.

* What is the algorithm for the toilet's spraying? Does it end up spreading diluted feces around, or is it careful to spray outward-in?

* What happens if feces end up on the nozzle? Is there some kind of auto-cleaning mechanism? Otherwise it might end up spraying old feces back to me.

ry0ohki• 14 years ago

They explain it at least the first part, saying most people still use a little toilet paper for drying (and presumably checking)

swampthing3• 14 years ago

Ah, missed that - thanks.

radley5• 14 years ago

- It's like washing your hands vs. wiping them off with a paper towel. You should wipe clean first, then you water clean.

- The sprayer is manually controlled: when you're done using and flushing, then you wash & dry. It doesn't just stick out the whole time.

throwaway1979• 14 years ago

When I was a child (living in an Asia), we had a separate toilet and a bidet (side by side). The awkward part was moving between the two. Even with that separation, accidents can happen (i.e. feces in the bidet). I wonder if the single Japanese toilet is superior to two separate seats (toilet + bidet) in regards to hygiene.

swampthing3• 14 years ago

Got it, thanks. I can see how it'd be cleaner, but I suspect most people are in blissful denial as to their filthy ways :)

Is there a cover for the sprayer, so that it's protected from splatter while you're excreting?

crusso6• 14 years ago

Regarding the sprayer, the question is not necessarily what happens to it when it's not spraying water... when the nozzle is in the process of spraying you, it's unavoidable that some of the contaminated splatter goes back into the nozzle.

Anyone who uses that toilet will inevitably share the germ cultures from one another's feces. That doesn't strike me as very sanitary.

trhtrsh3• 14 years ago

I love that half the comments here say to wipe first, and the other half say to wet first.

username3• 14 years ago

* What happens if urine splatter ends up in the nozzle? How easy is it to clean urine splatter off the controls?

fuzzythinker• 14 years ago

I thought about your last question the moment I tried these washlets. It just seems (to me) physically impossible to design a mechanism to prevent that from happening.

Reltair• 14 years ago

When I went to Japan and used the public toilets there, the nozzles would first go through an auto-cleaning process when you sat down.

gallaghersean• 14 years ago

Good, that would help with my fear. But then again, what's the algorithm of their cleaning. How does it know for sure it's clean? Honestly us Americans can be messy. I can only image what it would be like using one of these at Walmart, a public rest stop or even your infamous Gas Station restroom (if you want to even call those restrooms).

kayoone• 14 years ago

Algorithms for the toilets spraying, Only on HN :D

base6982• 14 years ago

Most of the ones I used had two settings for temp and two settings for power of stream. A few of them had an angle setting as well. You just press and held a button until you felt clean, then used toilet paper to dry off.

jasontraff• 14 years ago

My wife dragged me to an appliance shop in the Mission (SF) and they had a toilet like this in their bathroom. At first I was shocked and appalled at how forceful the stream of water was - especially as I had it on the 'low' setting. Then I became aware of how long it was spraying because after 30 seconds I had to turn it off. With the combination of these two (and the heated dryer), I didn't have any problems.

patio11• 14 years ago

Toto's primary sales channel is "If you build a house or office in Japan and don't specifically talk to your architect/contractor about your post-bowel movement preferences we will take the liberty of using the most current model Toto has available and then invoice you cost plus labor plus 50%."

Toto does not have that relationship with the person responsible for picking your toilet.

Why does Toto have that relationship with the guy who picked my toilet? They've got a sales rep in Ogaki. His most important job is making sure they know of every business start for a construction company and that every time it happens the company gets a wreath (that's considered auspicious and is socially mandatory to buy when someone close to you starts a shop) and the principals get invited out drinking. Toto is, naturally, buying. The sales guy will not be so gauche as to mention "Say, apropos of nothing, do you do cost-plus projects? We have a proposition for you which will put $100 extra in your pocket for every bathroom you build."

arrrg5• 14 years ago

People don’t pick the toilets in their houses? I find that hard to imagine.

People not picking the pipes or bricks that are used I can see, but the toilet? No way. Before I buy a toilet I want to at least sit on it and I cannot imagine anyone feeling any other way about that.

shabble• 14 years ago

The situation for new builds / speculative construction which are then placed on the market, versus 'having a house built to your specifications', might be some of the difference. Or you (that is, not you or I, but "people") might select a "style" of bathroom or use a particular interior designer whom you trust to make appropriate decisions.

If you're not getting an incredibly detailed itemised bill, you might find it tough to spot ~1K extra in 'bathroom furniture and installations'

lambda• 14 years ago

How many people build their own house, as opposed to buying one from a previous owner or a developer?

Also, remember that not everyone owns their own house. Many people rent apartments or houses from other people, or live with families.

Between all of those factors, I would say a very small percentage of toilets in this country were picked out by the person using them.

adestefan4• 14 years ago

Even in most custom built homes you only pick the fit and finish and not the actual product. This is mainly done for cost reasons since specific products means you need someone to take the time to review existing plans to make sure everything fits and is spec'ed out properly.

smsm42• 14 years ago

If you buy a house that is not new, and your toilet is working, replacing it will be definitely not on the top of your list. And since other renovations - which usually matter much more for people take priority. Add to that the fact that "we recently did a new kitchen" sounds much better in conversation that "we recently bought a toilet seat which costs only a little less than a used car" - and here you go.

The factor of the cost is important too. For $1700 I could redo a whole room - why would I spend this on a toilet when I already have a perfectly working one? Of course, if money is not an issue, it's different - but for most people money still is the issue.

smackfu4• 14 years ago

People tend to have strong preferences about things they don't like in their current place. Like the kitchen layout, or the appliances, or the showerhead. People don't really have that much of a beef with a normal American Standard toilet, so they don't care.

dagw• 14 years ago

When I recently needed a new toilet I simply asked the plumber who would be installing it to swing by the shop and buy me one on the way over. I gave him a price range, told him to use his professional judgement and to bring me the receipt. Having to spend my Saturday schlepping all the way across town just to look at toilets is far too much a waste of my precious weekend.

pdenya• 14 years ago

Minus the necessity of the wreath, I assume construction managers in the US are equally willing to accept free drinks and an extra $100/per bathroom. Does this not work in the US because it can't be a reasonable default in those types of situations?

eob4• 14 years ago

It's not a reasonable default because every visitor to your house would make a comment requiring you to justify having "fringe" bathroom habits.

Edit: Not every, of course. And the number would vary by region of the US. Excuse the universal quantifier :)

chopsueyar• 14 years ago

Just the toilet seat is $750 (Disclosure: This is on my Christmas wishlist)!

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0011YSEUC/ref=as_li_ss_tl?...

Although it does come with a remote (with LCD display), water temperature adjustment, volume control (for your iDevice), warm air-dryer, and air deodorizer.

gregpilling• 14 years ago

Yes, the contractor will make many decisions for you - unless your architect made the decisions first.

ksmiley• 14 years ago

Nice insight on the sales approach. Is there any particular reason that this technique doesn't work outside of Japan? American construction companies might not care about a wreath, but surely drinking and promises of additional profits would be universally effective.

incision• 14 years ago

>Is there any particular reason that this technique doesn't work outside of Japan? American construction companies might not care about a wreath, but surely drinking and promises of additional profits would be universally effective.

It does work outside of Japan.

The relationship of "enterprise" software company to partner VAR to enterprise works much the same way, drinks and all.

yozmsn• 14 years ago

I know that this practice is outlawed for doctors and Pharma companies, the most they can give doctors these days are some free pens and drug samples :P

johnrgrace• 14 years ago

Yes it does work, it's why trade shows are in las vegas and other "fun" places. A dozen cupcake and bottle of scotch once saved me $5k in a deal.

taigeair• 14 years ago

Are these popular anywhere else besides Japan? That would be interesting to know.

Maybe it's a Japanese thing. It's like asking why we don't use arabic toilets...

irahul• 14 years ago

Why do you need to go through Toto? Installing a simple comod with a hand hold bidet http://handspray.com.au/images/retro-hand-spray-bidet/retro-... (or attached depending on your preference) can be done by a run of the mill contractor.

It looks like it's perceived as a modern, costly setup in Japan(and the thing shown in the article is expensive) but the simple comod-bidet setup is inexpensive. It's quite common in India.

notdrunkatall• 14 years ago

Quite common in Thailand too, and as anyone who's ever used one knows, they are far superior to toilet paper. I've been meaning to install my own sink sprayer next to my toilet for a while now. Guess I should get to it.

aptimpropriety• 14 years ago

Every one of these articles gets the pitch of these toilets completely wrong - for every person, and in every scenario, these are not universally better.

Consider the following experiment:

Smear some mud on your arm. Now, using a jet stream the power of a squirt gun and very low precision, wash it all off in 10 seconds. Not so easy. Then - imagine if you put mud on a place with hair! Not only will it not be clean without some actual washing, we haven't even gotten to the drying part yet.

Fact of the matter is, these do not replace toilet paper. I thought they were OK (Google) until I decided to use toilet paper after - and I was shocked and disappointed. My routine simply got longer and more complex, with a small value add of washing with water instead of dry paper.

Sorry about the grim detail - I think the 'squeamish about bathroom routine' point of the article is right - just in the wrong way!

radley5• 14 years ago

You're thinking either/or instead of "finishing the job".

When you dive into a mud pit, do you wipe yourself off with paper towels until you're done, or do you use a bit of soap & water?

runjake2• 14 years ago

I think you completely missed his point.

wahnfrieden2• 14 years ago

They have more useful features than just the bidet/water stream, such as the heated seat and how they won't slam when you close the lid.

maratd• 14 years ago

Just an FYI, Toto sells regular toilets in the US. They come with seats that don't slam. I think Toto also sells seats separately that do that.

crusso6• 14 years ago

Very informative post. Thanks for getting into some details that were bouncing around in my mind.

The article makes it sound as though you don't need toilet paper and that didn't sound quite right unless the jet was pretty significant and included some kind of soap.

CanSpice2• 14 years ago

The article actually states "...many users of bidets use some amount of toilet paper, especially for drying purposes."

AndyIngram3• 14 years ago

shattaf's (North American salad sprayer but for the restroom) work much better then the Japanese toilets, however I would only want to use one in my residence not a public/work restroom. They are common in Brazil and the Middle East, I think the heat makes being "unclean" a bigger issue.

subpixel• 14 years ago

Wow, I've never hear of a shattaf before.

Is incredible aim required, or does it just spray all over and go through a drain in the floor?

hcarvalhoalves• 14 years ago

Both shattafs and bidets (which is the whole separate ceramic apparatus, not just the spray) are common here in Brazil. I always though it was because of bigger French/Islamic influence.

utopkara2• 14 years ago

There is something wrong with your jet/mud/arm analogy, because it doesn't translate the real life results. The size, location, mobility, etc. make a difference.

Also, these toilets come with a warm air dryer as well.

I also saw them for the first time at Google, and then I bought one for home. It saves a ton of waste and you'll be and feel cleaner afterwards.

Granted, it does take a little more time to exit after you are done. But, if people were really in a hurry why would they keep a magazine/book by the toilet?

svdad• 14 years ago

I must disagree -- in my experience, the jet/mud/arm analogy translates precisely into real life results.

Also, should you find an additional paper pass to be necessary, you'll find it complicated by the fact that the area to be wiped is now wet. Toilet paper notoriously doesn't hold up well when soaking wet.

Aloisius3• 14 years ago

I would like to point out that women use washlets when they urinate and they are, especially with a built-in dryer, infinitely better than toilet paper alone.

Further, they shouldn't require much precision as the area we are talking about isn't all that large. Of course, until you get to the high end models, you generally don't get position adjustment or oscillating cleansing.

Maybe the Google ones you used were just poor? The ones I used in Japan ranged from excellent to ok.

brc3• 14 years ago

Congrats on introducing the female 'angle' as it were. A group of male engineer types discussing the merits would tend to completely forget that a huge percentage of toilet visits are by females for no 1 purposes only, and perhaps a light wash followed by a quick blow dry are more than sufficient.

I have tried these in Japan and the first time I hit the squirt button I got a shock-inducing surprise at how accurate they are. It's like they are laser guided or something, such is the accuracy of hitting the target.

ChuckMcM• 14 years ago

This is pretty insightful. I used them at Google as well and discovered similar variabilities. Doing some A/B testing (trust me testing on the toilet is encouraged there :-) I did find that I used less paper, but not 'no' paper. And it wasn't just for 'drying purposes' it was to insure everything had been taken care of.

Another observation was that you got better with the wash over time. Once familiarized with the placement controls of the unit and the 'feel' (sorry) of the action you could achieve better results. There was some interesting speculation on what a 'complete' fix might entail, and one of the hardware engineers put a 'watts up' meters in line with the seat to get a read on its actual usage (about .037 kwH per month),

My take away was that it was an improvement but not a $1,500 improvement (or $4,500 if I wanted to do it to all three toilets in my house). It also increases water usage, albeit modestly, which is sort of anti-california but that was before I talked with the toilet guys who said the water saving toilets only save water on urine flushes since it it typical for solid matter to require more than one flush cycle. (it still saves water but still).

wilfra7• 14 years ago

you're doing it wrong.

jetako• 14 years ago

Sounds like your hairy ass is the real problem. Ever considered trimming down there? Dry paper might afford you the illusion of cleanliness, but I guarantee you your bum remains dirty without a thorough washing.

mistercow• 14 years ago

No, they definitely don't replace toilet paper. But they can make it so you don't have to use nearly as much.

CamperBob2• 14 years ago

Then - imagine if you put mud on a place with hair!

Sounds like you just answered the question of why these are popular in Japan but not in America.

Doesn't explain their popularity in Europe, though.

grose• 14 years ago

Hello, I've lived in Japan for about 3 years now and I find these toilets indispensable. For the situation you described, I have experienced the same thing but I have found that there are a few ways of getting around it. The main way is the "move" function, which oscillates the nozzle back and forth. Usually you can activate this by pressing the spray button twice or pressing a dedicated button. You can also usually manually adjust the nozzle position to better suit your needs. Additionally, some of them have dryers which further negates the need for toilet paper. My routine is usually spray, oscillate, check with one or two TP squares, and then dry. This saves me from a lot of hassle and saves a lot of toilet paper. Excuse my vulgarity, but I've had times where what would otherwise turn out to be a "nightmare shit" became a relatively pleasant experience. It's those times where I can really appreciate modern technology. I think Toto did a good job to try to get it to fit the majority of people's needs, but it seems some manual tweaking and button pushing is still necessary sometimes.

veidr• 14 years ago

I read a version of this argument in some US newspaper a while back. It completely misses the point.

These ass-jet toilets are not intended to replace toilet paper. They are for getting your asshole (and ladyparts, but I can't testify on that topic) much cleaner in much less time than with conventional American toilets and dry paper alone.

You use the ass-jet, then paper. That's how they work. (For a heinous bowel-movement situation, you might do paper, ass-jet, paper again.) You aren't supposed to skip the paper!

Using your mud example, if you got mud all over your head, would you rather just keep scraping your head with dry paper towels, and use up a couple rolls worth and still have some mud left over, or use some water too? Same principle.

If you take a perfect shit (love when that happens), then sure, it just slides out and leaves behind minimal debris. Great. But let's say you ate a plate of Uncle Jim's nachos the night before, along with a twelve pack of PBR, and you definitely didn't achieve shitting perfection this time. That is when these toilets really shine.

The number of times you have to wipe your ass to achieve that comforting pure-white-no-residue final wipe, that tells you your asshole is clean, is astronomically higher with paper only than it is with an ass-jet plus paper. I mean, have you ever had one of those wipe-it-ten-time-and-dammit-it-still-isn't-clean kind of shits? You just never have that happen with the ass-jet. The water helps wash your doody-hole AND that moistens the toilet paper (for the first post-jet wipe). That makes it work better, just like a wet dishrag is more effective at cleaning a dish than a dry one.

I personally would be surprised if populations that lack ass-jet toilets didn't have a higher incidence of hemmhorrhoids from all that wiping, over a lifetime. I don't think we have that long-term data yet.

But from personal experience, they have saved me thousdands and thousands of asshole-wipes over the years, and I could never go back to a the barbaric American toilets of my youth.

(When I moved back to America several years ago, I brought a Toto washlet toilet seat with me. And the new apartment that I just bought in Tokyo had many options to specify, but the toilet wasn't one of them--just as patio11 suggests above, the place came with a brand new whiz-bang model featuring the latest in shitter technology from Toto, complete with not only heated seat, ass-jet, and wall-mounted control panel, but also sensors that allow it to raise the seat automatically as I approach, and flush for me when I am done.)

fabioferrari• 14 years ago

I'm laughing my ass off... Great and insightful post!

lux2• 14 years ago

Do these improve upon the ergonomics of the common toilet? I'm thinking of the comparison between sitting and squatting positions.

axusgrad• 14 years ago

Heated seats.

Finding a plumber I trust seems like a problem some startup has solved. There's never enough time to follow this up, I've been intending to upgrade for over a year.

seanmcdirmid6• 14 years ago

Heated toilet seats are essential in Japan where many houses lack very good indoor heating.

The best for me was heated train seats, but we've ventured away from toilets.

lux2• 14 years ago

I'm thinking something more like this:

http://ergonomenon.com/ergonomics-articles/the-ergonomics-of...

traughber• 14 years ago

Another place in San Francisco that has Japanese toilets? Our company, GREE International. And we're hiring :)

http://gree-corp.com/jobs

tomjen32• 14 years ago

Now to get a visa.

radley5• 14 years ago

Hotel Kabuki in Japantown has them of course...

wahnfrieden2• 14 years ago

Most Japanese restaurants in NYC as well.

suyash• 14 years ago

Oh, the one in Japantown on Geary St. in SF, I need to stay there sometime

eob4• 14 years ago

Americans, by and large, are quite bizarre when it comes to discussing anything that takes place below the belt.

When I mentioned working at Google, I have had multiple people say to me, "I heard the founders at Google are OBSESSED with toilets and import special models from Japan." As if one has to be stark raving mad to use a modern toilet from Japan, instead of the old fashioned toilet which was probably imported from China anyway.

FrojoS2• 14 years ago

While I agree that Americans are especially prude, its not like these toilets are noticeable more common in Europe. Of course the French have their bidet...

GuiA• 14 years ago

>Of course the French have their bidet...

I'm French- there's a bidet at my grandparents' house which is never used, and there used to be one at my parents' house but they removed it when they remodeled the bathroom because they never used it (it was there when they bought the house).

I've only ever used a bidet to wash my feet (or as kids, we would put our swimsuits in it to dry). I'm not even sure what its original purpose is.

fab13n• 14 years ago

The bidet becomes increasingly rare, although there's an obvious reason why: it takes real estate.

In india, they have a dedicated cup and tub near the floor. A godsend for the many visitors catching turista: you can only sustain so much dry wiping before getting a serious rash...

andrewflnr• 14 years ago

Regarding prudishness, there is actually some stuff up thread about how Americans are less shy about bodily noises.

GFischer4• 14 years ago

Here in Uruguay most houses have a bidet too (since we copy the Spanish model), and I find it very useful.

It's purpose is similar to that of the Japanese toilet, though way more primitive - the Japanese solution takes less space and is more advanced generally, but way more expensive.

s_henry_paulson2• 14 years ago

From what I read on the internet 25-40% of people out there seem to stand up to wipe.. and I have to believe that's largely due to people never discussing how they use the restroom.

theThirdMan• 14 years ago

Is there an easier way to wipe?

eob4• 14 years ago

No, they stand because that part of the world is used to squatting when they go to the bathroom. The "toilet as throne" model is from the west. Over there, historically, toilets are built into the floor. The toilet bowl is a rounded-rectangle depression in the floor rather than something that sticks out of it. You stand with one foot on either side of the bowl and squat while you do your business.

I prefer Western toilets (I'm American), but think the squat-strategy has a lot of sense to it: you never touch anything, and the squat position angles your body "just right" if you know what I mean. It's just a bit awkward for us (Westerners) when you're not used to holding that body position, though.

There, now I can cross off "get into public internet discussion of pooping strategy" from my life goals list. :)

reneherse• 14 years ago

Well it's my understanding that it's more hygienic for women to wipe front to back, which is easier to do when you're not still sitting on the seat.

wilfra7• 14 years ago

Lot's of people also don't look at the toilet paper after they wipe, to be sure they got everything. I believe this also stems from people not discussing their bathroom habits.

xutopia• 14 years ago

I live in Canada and if that water isn't heated before coming in contact with my hiney I can assure you that it'll be too cold for comfort at least in the winter.

bryanlarsen• 14 years ago

It doesn't make much difference whether it's winter or summer. The water temperature isn't below zero or it would be ice. If the water source doesn't go below zero when the air temperature is -30, it's not going to get much warmer when the air temperature is +30.

w1ntermute3• 14 years ago

Heated water is an option.

gutnor• 14 years ago

I'm just back from holiday in Japan. All the toilets I used had heated (tepid) water. To me that's what made the difference between pleasant and what could have been awful.

bagosm• 14 years ago

I cant believe how overenthusiastic this article is. From one of the reviews it quotes: “Going to the bathroom has become an enjoyable experience.”

Other than they might as well be good, they are certainly a novelty unless you have very specific reasons to get one. Also another thing to fear is cameras and wifi, it's japanese after all!

Somebody is pushin some high-tech loos! I'd rather know how to use the three seashell system...

nikatwork4• 14 years ago

Try one before passing judgement. Seriously, try one. It's a quasi-religious experience.

me2i81• 14 years ago

I suppose with all this discussion of efficiency of cleansing it might be indelicate to point out that some people enjoy having warm water shot up their ass, and women enjoy the "front wash" feature also.

shakoosh99• 14 years ago

They are sold in the U.S http://www.pilotbidet.com/

ComputerGuru• 14 years ago

$15 in parts from your local hardware store gets you the basic tools you need to build a water-powered hygiene system.

All you need is the "spray head" with flexible hose [0], plus the adaptor to make a kitchen part fit the bathroom piping (for some reason, kitchen and bathroom have non-interchangeable parts).

You hang it on a hook next to the toilet, and you use it to clean yourself. I cannot live without these, and I intensely regret any overnight trips to a hotel or other place that does not have such an amenity. I regularly recommend and sometimes even buy and install these for friends and family.

The USA is still living in the dark ages when it comes to some parts of self-hygiene.

0: http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/21PJ48yqYmL._SL500_AA3...

seanmcdirmid6• 14 years ago

This is how they do it in Thailand, at least. Basically, imagine the sprayer in your kitchen sink attached to your toilet.

In areas without (edit: running) water, they'll have a bucket of clean water nearby with some sort of cup to use. I've heard this is pretty common in SE Asia.

simontzu• 14 years ago

Yup!

And people eat with their hands a lot too. This is why its considered disgusting to eat with the left hand in many places. Right hand for eating, left hand for washing your ass.

One of the benefits of having travelled a lot in Asia is you will never again be phased by running out of toilet paper.

reedlaw2• 14 years ago

Can someone point me to a product (preferably on Amazon) that's exactly like the sprayers in Thailand? One that can be screwed into a toilet's water supply, not a kitchen sink's.

bmj• 14 years ago

You aren't feeling like doing this yourself, several companies make systems like this for cleaning cloth diapers before dropping them in the pail.

http://www.handyspray.com/Cloth-Diaper-Sprayer.html

schiffern2• 14 years ago

It should also have a vacuum breaker, which is required by code. Massachusetts plumbing code is typical:

>Approved backflow preventers or vacuum breakers shall be installed with any plumbing fixture or equipment, the potable water supply outlet of which may be submerged and which cannot be protected by a minimum air gap.

joseph• 14 years ago

I saw a lot of those in Dubai. I have used a toilet such as the one in the article and the "UI" was less than intuitive. Because there were so many buttons, it took me a few tries to figure out how to turn on the water and the drying fan, and it had too many moving parts. Sometimes simple is better.

g8oz• 14 years ago

The handheld toilet sprayer is called a "shattaf" in the Eastern world.

http://brondell.com/blog/washing-with-water-around-the-world...

zem• 14 years ago

very common in south asia and the middle east too.

antirez• 14 years ago

How the wonderful Japanese gardens, their sensibility for design, beauty, simplicity, and this awful toilets can convive in the same culture, is a mystery to me.

mcormier• 14 years ago

"These exquisite toilets are everywhere in Japan"

Really? I was there for 5 days last spring and never encountered one of these toilets. I did, however, encounter a hole in the ground, you gotta squat to do a number two public toilet stall.

Osmium2• 14 years ago

I've been to both Sapporo and Tokyo, and I can assure you there're everywhere. Certainly everywhere I went. I did see squat toilets too though; some places had both.

Kiro• 14 years ago

It's like saying you never encountered a "normal" toilet while visiting Europe. That's how common these are in Japan.

jnar• 14 years ago

I mean, seriously. Forget about hyper-tech stuff and get a normal bidet and learn how to wash your ass properly. That's pretty much all you need to improve your life and it will cost way less than 500$.

benihana• 14 years ago

Because I have no control over which toilets the apartment complex I'm living in chooses.

miahi3• 14 years ago

I think it's just because the Japanese are really obsessed with cleanliness and others are not.

moheeb• 14 years ago

I have a shower next to my toilet. Take that, Japanese people!!

miahi3• 14 years ago

Do you also have an antibacterial pencil or notebook? Did you buy your car because it has an antibacterial steering wheel?

http://articles.latimes.com/1996-11-21/news/mn-1397_1_cleani...

ww520• 14 years ago

It's too expensive. $1000 vs a typical $100 toilet. Cleaning this thing is an extra hassle. The psychological aversion of having some liquid spraying FROM the toilet adds to the lack of interest.

cerebrum• 14 years ago

I thought this would be about the benefits of the squat toilet.

schiffern2• 14 years ago

Yep, me too. Given how much time it saves, I'm surprised more life hackers don't get into it.

http://www.slate.com/articles/health_and_science/science/201...

acomjean• 14 years ago

I have a TOTO (cambridge ma), but it has none of the fancy features. It did come with a sticker on the seat for www.cleanishappy.com/ which sells the super toilet seat ad ons. The toliet works well and uses very little water. It doesn't spin flush but instead uses a wave of water when flushing.

usefulcat• 14 years ago

We got one of these for each bathroom because they are virtually uncloggable. They may not render toilet paper obsolete, but they do very nearly render the plunger obsolete.

w1ntermute3• 14 years ago

A funny related article: Odor-eliminating pants are hot seller in Japan; Undergarments disguise smell of flatulence, body odor: http://www.nydailynews.com/life-style/health/odor-eliminatin...

muraiki• 14 years ago

At first I thought this article would be about squat toilets (which I did also encounter in Greece). While it's true that a squat toilet means that you don't have to sit on something that other people have sat on, it also leaves a lot of room for, how shall I put it... error? I encountered some pretty bad public restrooms in Japan...

When I lived in Japan for a few months, I think I only ever came across one or two bidet toilets. Frankly, I was too afraid to try it. I kept wondering what would happen if the mechanism malfunctioned or missed or something. Typical geek worries, I guess!

mirkules• 14 years ago

While I find bidet toilets incredibly useful, I don't understand why this is such a sudden revelation. The French invented these toilets in the 18th century: they were/are in wide use in Europe, middle east, and I've even encountered a few in Canadian hotels (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bidet). Is there something fundamentally different about Japanese bidets (other than integration into the toilet itself)?

beatgammit• 14 years ago

I think the main difference is that the Japanese toilet is paperless. From the wikipedia page:

> In 1980 the first "paperless toilet" was launched in Japan, a combination toilet and bidet which also dries the user after washing.

The bidet often required something separate to dry after cleaning, so the difference seems to be integration with the toilet plus the dryer (heated seat optional).

On another note, on a recent trip to Korea, I noticed that many homes had these toilets (mentioned on wikipedia article). The article seems to imply that they are unique to Japan, when they're actually popular almost everywhere outside of the US.

henrikschroder• 14 years ago

Eh, they're not popular in Europe either.

Osmium2• 14 years ago

How does one go about cleaning these? It always seemed to me that, if the nozzle got dirty, then they could cause more problems than they solve. Especially (to quote the article) if it's spraying the "female genital area." If there's any bacteria on that nozzle, and since it's been in a toilet for any number of years I'd guess there might be, surely there'd be a risk of it causing UTIs and the like?

Pinatubo• 14 years ago

A friend of mine has one of these toilets, and the first thing I did before sitting down was look at the nozzle. It was covered in tiny bits of feces. I stuck with the toilet paper.

duaneb2• 14 years ago

IIRC some of them have self-cleaning mechanisms. Anyway, I would imagine I would still want to clean once a week with the rest of the toilet.

studio35• 14 years ago

Ever since I tried a Toto in Japan, I've become fascinated with these bidet seats, and have since become an expert on them, after building my own bidet seat review blog and bidet seat store to resell Brondell products (which are among the top brands). I've learned that most of the top end bidet seats have complex nozzle retraction and sanitization systems. The Brondell Swash 1000 we sell has stainless steel nozzles treated with "silver oxide nano particles" that resist bacteria, and most models have systems that rinse the nozzle before and after each use. The nozzles typically retract when not in use so that they're not in the line of fire of human waste.

stcredzero2• 14 years ago

I'm sure it's because Americans have funny attitudes. Programmers, who spend lots of time sitting, should see this as a way of increasing comfort during work time. For the same reason and others (prevalence of pizza at meet ups) programmers should consider modest amounts of fiber supplements like Metamucil. (Not like a conventional laxative at all, and it enables your GI tract to handle just about anything you throw at it gracefully, so long as you get enough water.)

lotso• 14 years ago

Metamucil is definitely my favorite lifehack. Not to be crude, but having no-wipe number 2s is amazing.

ErrantX3• 14 years ago

Also, economics. These toilets currently cost ~$500 more than a "normal" toilet.

Of course, you do use significantly more toilet paper with the latter, but a pack is ~$5 and lasts ~ 1 month, so you'd still be looking at, what 8-10 year return on investment.

crusso6• 14 years ago

but a pack is ~$5 and lasts ~ 1 month

Ah, I remember my bachelor days too.

ErrantX3• 14 years ago

Multibuy is your friend! I sat down and worked out our real toilet roll cost and it is lower than $5/mo

infinii• 14 years ago

Lol, he obviously doesn't have a woman in the house.

brc3• 14 years ago

You are obviously a bachelor.

ErrantX3• 14 years ago

Nope! I live with my girlfriend :) You lot seem to be spending a lot on toilet paper!!

jbverschoor• 14 years ago

I can't imagine these responses over here.. I've been to japan 3 times, and everytime I wish I would have one of these things here.

base6982• 14 years ago

In a humid/muggy environment I didn't know how I lived without Japanese toilets. I secretly wished we'd lost WW2 after I visited Tokyo the first time :)

ma2xd• 14 years ago

How do you know when you are clean and it's safe to pull up your pants? Does it have a mirror or something?

majormajor• 14 years ago

The US population seems rather stubborn regarding toilet habits. This is anecdotal, but I knew a guy who interned about a decade ago with a company that produces a lot of toilet paper here in the US. He told me that they had internally developed forms of "wet" toilet paper that were pretty much superior to the dry kind in every way (think of the difference in trying to clean off your hands with a dry paper towel and a wet wipe of some kind), and IIRC they thought they could produce them in a way that wouldn't cause a substantial price hike, but whenever they did tests consumers almost universally hated the feeling, and regardless of how much better/easier they cleaned, they basically refused to consider them. Which is a shame, since dry paper really isn't the best cleaning tool...

anonymous4• 14 years ago

Bizarre. I always first wipe with some wet toilet paper and then use dry for the finish.

smackfu4• 14 years ago

One obvious problem: room temperature wet things are kind of cold when you put them down there.

Aloisius3• 14 years ago

The only reason I do not have one is that I don't have a power plug near my toilet. It has been my experience that women, once they try them, especially love bidets with built in dryers.

The marketing could be better. Education comes first. If non-bidet toilets were contrasted as crude, unhygienic and downright barbaric, I think we'd see a lot more demand for them and bidet makers should be offering them free to restaurants and clothing stores to place in women's bathrooms.

But for me, the problem still comes back to power.

makmanalp• 14 years ago

The odd thing is, in Turkey we universally have a nozzle on the back of the toilet that just is a stream of water that falls in an arc forwards. You control it from a tap on the side, on the wall. You turn on the stream and then angle yourself onto it, or wet your toilet paper a bit when wiping.

Way less toilet paper (just to wipe&dry at the end), cleans way faster, your bum is not itchy, and it costs nothing. The toilet bowls come with this.

I hate American toilets. This can't just be a Turkish quirk, right?

GFischer4• 14 years ago

Nope. Reading the comments, anywhere BUT the United States you can get some form of water cleaning - Southern Europeans and South Americans have Bidets - Northern Europeans have Bidet Showers (well, Germans have the shelf thing) - Asians have these toilets (saw posts claiming about Korea, India and Japan)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bidet http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bidet_shower

mberning• 14 years ago

Try using a toilet in Germany. Without being too crass, you deposit your excrement onto a dry shelf, whereupon it may be inspected, or not, and then a rush of water slides it off the shelf to its destination.

iso-8859-1• 14 years ago

http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toilette#Porzellanstandardbecke...

LVB• 14 years ago

Thanks. Up until 10 seconds ago, my memories of those had been nearly completely purged.

kghose• 14 years ago

1. Uses less water 2. No splash back

daralthus• 14 years ago

Also it is designed to facilitate stool examination, as it was invented when huge dysentery epidemics spread through Europe.

smackfu4• 14 years ago

3. Smells worse.

scotty79• 14 years ago

Double plus for no splashback. I don't get how people can suffer through this. I hate so much being splashed by dirty toilet water. And this happens like 50% of times for me while using non-german style toilet.

acheron• 14 years ago

I saw that in Spain, too.

pcrh• 14 years ago

I never understood the point of those things...

ZoFreX• 14 years ago

They have really advanced toilet seats in some public bathrooms, though! Totally different angle to the Japanese - some of the toilets I used in Germany rotated the entire seat 360 degrees through a cleaning mechanism. Very hygienic!

Tobias42• 14 years ago

You only find those toilets in many decades old bathrooms.

paulsutter• 14 years ago

Touch-free and heated are the main advantages of Japanese toilets. The seat raises as you approach, lowers automatically, and the toilet flushes when you stand up. I returned yesterday from a two-month trip to Japan, and now the toilets here seem primitive, unclean, and cold. Why touch a toilet seat or handle with your hand?

marknutter• 14 years ago

Flushable wet wipes changed my bathroom life. I now don't even consider doing my business without them. Way cheaper than installing a bidet, and I would argue it's more effective, too.

ars• 14 years ago

BTW There is no such thing as a flushable wet wipe. They claim you can flush them, but they actually clog pipes frequently, and don't disintegrate like they should.

http://www.consumerreports.org/cro/video-hub/home--garden/be...

bitsoda• 14 years ago

A bidet attachment is less than $50. It's also a one-time cost. Having to purchase wet wipes will eventually cost you more. Also, you're still just smearing poop allover your bum with a wipe. The bidet's jet of water effectively blasts your area clean. Think about it like this: if you cook a spaghetti dinner with meatballs and tomato sauce, would you wet wipe the plates and put them back in the cupboard? Of course not, you'd give the dishes a proper rinsing under a stream of water. I will never understand the aversion to bidets. Anything less is uncivilized, and quite frankly, disgusting.

jiggy2011• 14 years ago

I imagine it's to do with price, at least for public toilets.

Here in the UK , we can't have nice things because someone will just take the liberty of smashing it to pieces for you.

For what I have heard about places like Tokyo; you have vending machines for just about all of your needs, fancy toilets and video game arcades have actual chairs to sit on while you play the machines.

None of these things would last 5 minutes in the UK.

saurabhambry• 14 years ago

Its not just Japan. These toilets are what you find in most middle class homes in India too!

captainchaos• 14 years ago

These toilets are a pleasure to use. But I think the main reason many people don't consider them is that you need a nearby electrical socket or have a big dumb cable on your bathroom floor. The article quotes $500 to have a GFCI socket installed but that in unrealistically low in some parts of the country. > $1000 is a decent investment, especially if you consider your bunghole reasonably clean today.

hnriot3• 14 years ago

I wouldn't want a bidet like contraption, it's just massive overkill for something that humans have turned into a big deal. People seemed to manage for hundreds of centuries just fine without computerized toilets. Utterly ridiculous and a good example of the first world having gone crazy.

These are just extortion, taking advantage of a cultural "issue" in a first world country like Japan.

I can't believe hn are even discussing this.

teejaygreen• 14 years ago

I wouldn't want a car like contraption, it's just massive overkill for something that humans have turned into a big deal. People seemed to manage for hundreds of centuries just fine without motorized horses. Utterly ridiculous and a good example of the first world having gone crazy. These are just extortion, taking advantage of a cultural "issue" in a first world country like America.

I can't believe hn are even discussing this.

hnriot3• 14 years ago

motorized transportation is clearly an advantage, having water squirted up your arse is, at best fetishistic, and at worst just a total waste of time/electricity.

If you can't see the difference then go right ahead and keep discussing this nonsense. Funny how the rest of the animal kingdom seems to have managed. Funny how nobody but the Japanese want these? Ever ask why the same nation that needs soiled panty dispensing vending machines also needs an electric bidet. See it for what it is, a fetish. I'm sure jonathan swift would have loved one.

Firehed• 14 years ago

As technology improves, so does our standard of living.

We also went for millennia without computers and cars, yet we have no problem discussing those. Heck, the species survived without medicine for the vast majority of its existence; yet now we have it we'd never go back (and attempting to do so would be legitimately considered inhumane).

So I fail to see how discussing a sanitation issue is a first-world problem.

hnriot3• 14 years ago

because the rest of world crap in a hole in the ground!

medicine has actually been with humans for centuries, but yes, mankind managed just fine without medicine. Most things that kill us (besides predators) are the result of technology, like agricultural-era based diseases and the more modern pollutions in the water and air. antibiotics, however, are a welcome modern addition...

DanBC• 14 years ago

> People seemed to manage for hundreds of centuries just fine without computerized toilets.

Diarrhoea is a major cause of child death. Many of these deaths could be prevented with better hygiene, including better toilets and running water for hand washing with soap.

tedunangst2• 14 years ago

Do significantly more US children die from dysentery than Japanese children? Computerized toilets may be on the other side of the point of diminishing returns.

omnisci• 14 years ago

I don't use those because I prefer the 3 shells.

Although I've never used one the Japanese toilets, I would be a huge fan of the heated seat portion. If I had the money, that would be a feature I'd enjoy.

gokulk• 14 years ago

They actually have these in Google mountain view

evolve2k• 14 years ago

Toilet habits form early and then are hard to change I'm thinking one idea for creating a market would be to pick a city and then subsidize the toilets to be installed in child care centers and primary schools. Get kids used to the experience and benefit from the 'yeah I remember we had them at school' affect later.

darkstar999• 14 years ago

What happens when the controls on these toilets wear out? Are they replaceable? The thing about toilets I am used to in the US is that the moving parts are completely replaceable.

zampano• 14 years ago

What I really miss from Japan are the toilets with a sink on top of the water container on the back (something like this: http://f00.inventorspot.com/images/profile-toilet.jpg). You flush the toilet and the water refilling the container comes out of a faucet for you to wash your hands real quick and the water going down the drain fills the container up for the next flush. It seems so simple and helps save a tiny bit of water every trip to the bathroom. Now if only Japanese bathrooms started providing their own soap so I wouldn't have to bring my own everywhere...

GFischer4• 14 years ago

Japanese sure are efficient with their use of space :) .

graeme2• 14 years ago

I recently started using a squat toilet. Never has number two gone so well. Apparently it's the position we're best designed for. Provides a great hip flexor stretch too.

I use a lillipad: http://www.lillipad.co.nz/

It converts any normal toilet into an optional squat toilet. I don't think it would work with these warm-water jet toilets though.

If you have any issues with your bowel movements (constipation, diarrhea, both), you owe it to yourself to try a squat toilet.

mmagin• 14 years ago

Here's another similar product http://www.naturesplatform.com/

graeme2• 14 years ago

They sent me a 'sorry, we have to much business to sell you anything' message.

I suggested they raise prices to a level that would let them sell more. Never heard anything back.

meej2• 14 years ago

I already posted about this upthread, but now I'll post with a link:

http://www.squattypotty.com

yason• 14 years ago

It sounds like way too hi-tech. I guess people around the world are pretty much happy to get the job done one way or another. I know that there are people who wipe and people who wash. Then some others who do things I probably don't know how to imagine.

If you're not keen on using a piece of paper to smudge your shit into your anus more permanently than necessary, then there are always bidet showers (without the bidet sink, it's just an extra shower with a smaller outlet). Wikipedia says "Its [bidet shower] use is very common in Finland, romance speaking countries, arab countries and other countries of muslim background."

So, the dry and wet options are already covered to most countries' likings and the spraying toilet seat doesn't effectively offer any groundbreaking improvements in the appropriate department.

akamel• 14 years ago

indeed the 'showers' separate handle beside the toilet, or the cheaper seat based options are very popular among Muslims in general as using water for cleaning after bathroom is seen as a religious requirement.

ex from amazon: http://www.amazon.com/s/?ie=UTF8&keywords=muslim+shower&...

numeromancer• 14 years ago

This article needs a demo video.

anonymous4• 14 years ago

1. They're much more expensive

2. You need to retrain your cleaning staff to know how to handle these. It's like entrusting them with dusting off your server rack.

michelleclsun• 14 years ago

The best part of these toilets is not the washing function, which in Asia frankly not a lot of people use (I lived in Hong Kong, Beijing and traveled extensively across main cities in Asia) but the heated seats. Once in a ski lodge in Niseko, Hokkaido, Japan, after a long day of snowboarding, these heated seats really save the day - Japanese perfectionism at its best.

piyush_soni• 14 years ago

After being in multiple countries, I can safely conclude that if you think the daily 'paper' routine can clean it properly, it can't. If you think only a water jet can clean it properly, it can't. You have to use both. My schedule is something like : Paper->Water jet->Paper and I feel perfect after this! :)

dsrguru• 14 years ago

Watch the washlet industry sweep across the Bay Area now.

xmstr• 14 years ago

I use three seashells. They're the best!

rco8786• 14 years ago

Because they're all in Japan!

radley5• 14 years ago

I've been planning to install one but:

1) I rent

2) have two bathrooms: downstairs everyone uses, upstairs is mostly me.

So:

1) do I take care of everyone or just myself first (i.e. upstairs or downstairs)?

2) costs are probably not as low as they claim. I'll need to have an electrician run power near to the toilet which also means ripping out part of the wall, replacing, and repainting.

3) I feel funny doing this as a tenant and I've wondered how well property company would respond to covering the installation costs. I figure it's like installing a new appliance...

jseims• 14 years ago

I installed two of these in my house. One of the best uses of money ever :)

john78• 14 years ago

As a cheaper alternative, you can try these two things:

- A foot-stool to place your feet on so you are in a more natural position which seems to help with the flow of things and could reduce the amount of cleanup required. See "Going to the Bathroom 2.0" - http://youtu.be/0WQaqeC_wME

- And flushable baby wipes.

Simple but very effective.

trifilij• 14 years ago

I actually do use a bidet, from http://www.bluebidet.com/ it was easy to install and keeps my ass clean

travis29• 14 years ago

Ha! I have the same one and love it!

Khurrum• 14 years ago

A thousand bucks to buy and install is kinda steep for minor comfort. If the company / apartment complex already does it, then its something cool, but otherwise its coming out of your paycheck and that money can buy other cool things that you might care about more.

giardini• 14 years ago

OK, so what do you do when the lights go out (and the power)?

nicholas73• 14 years ago

I know why I don't want one - the water will splash poop particles over my butt and legs, and no amount of added dryers is going to convince me that it is clean.

justinhj• 14 years ago

Going to the toilet is very culturally determined. Take a poo in Germany and when you stand up your poo will be waiting for you on a shelf, in case you wish to examine it (historically to identify health issues). Will that ever translate to the US? No, because it's a different culture not interested in examining their own poo. Same goes for Japan/Korea and the bum washing toilet.

jaseemabid2• 14 years ago

We have nothing else to talk on HN other than toilets?

olgeni• 14 years ago

Node.js-based toilets?

jaseemabid2• 14 years ago

ktf• 14 years ago

If you live in SF check out the bathrooms in the Viz/New People Cinema on Post St -- they have these fancy contraptions. Maybe catch a movie while you're there, too :)

bluedanieru• 14 years ago

>These toilets, known as “washlets”, have many amazing features - the most notable of which is they render toilet paper obsolete.

Uh, no they don't. And if the author is using them that way, that's fucking gross. If they rendered toilet paper obsolete then Japanese bathrooms wouldn't have toilet paper, or Japanese wouldn't use it anyway, but neither statement is true. The 'feature' of Japanese toilets is that your asshole will be clean, regardless of how dire the shit you just took is. And believe me, it's a wonderful thing, but it doesn't render the paper obsolete.

Pardon the pun, but this author is talking out of his ass.

tomrod2• 14 years ago

You know, sometimes there just needs to be a match to light the fire. Supposedly (but indeterminately) Clark Gable wearing no undershirt drove undershirt sales down 75%[0]

I reckon an episode Modern Family or Community where this type of toilet/bidet is a positive driver of the comedy would bring in a lot of sales for bidets.

[0] http://www.snopes.com/movies/actors/gable1.asp

towski• 14 years ago

The article says that bidet attachments are 100 dollars on Amazon. I have good news everyone! Amazon has dropped those prices to 30 dollars! I bought one!

kjell• 14 years ago

About a year ago I installed a bidet in my bathroom. It's the one pictured towards the bottom of this article, and I bought it on amazon. I use it and "cloth toilet paper" for my butt-cleaning. It's great.

The water washes me clean. Often 100% and always most of the way. It took a bit to get the hang of it: to get a good wash I find it helps to clench my butt muscles and wiggle on the seat. After 5-10 seconds, I wipe with the cloth: old t-shirts cut into ~4x8" rectangles. The water does a much better job of cleaning than toilet paper.

When I first had the bidet I used toilet paper after the spray to dry off. It was only slightly less miserable than having a waterlogged ass. I needed twice as much paper to dry myself off as I would have used to wipe.

For a while I hung an old microfiber towel next to the toilet and used that, but "oh, that's just my butt-towel…" is an interesting conversation to have. So I cut up some old shirts. They go into a bucket after use and I wash them regularly. The cloth is what makes it work.

I can only imagine what it would be like to have a blowdryer down there.

coltonb1• 14 years ago

They have one of these in the Google Venture Startup Lab and I can personally testify that they are every bit as good as this article describes. Thanks GV!

davemel37• 14 years ago

I recall an old Dave Barry article about laws around water usage in toilets... Turns out it is super-regulated.

What I found fascinating was this site claiming that,"it takes 635 gallons of water to make a hamburger, but only one to flush it." http://www.map-testing.com/

eternalban• 14 years ago

“Basically, we're the Apple Computers of toilets” - Toto spokesperson

Clearly not true. The Apple Computer of toilets would only allow you to download via iPoop.

beefman• 14 years ago

I'm sure I want a plastic nozzle, mounted inside a toilet, spraying water up into my ass.

I poop in the morning, wipe off the worst with toilet paper, then hop in the shower. Works great, and my shower head has the advantage of never having been splashed by someone else's pee.

btilly• 14 years ago

My sister has one of these.

My 4 year old used it. Once. When it sprayed her, she jumped up, ran out of the room, and refused to ever touch that toilet again.

yeonhoyoon• 14 years ago

These toilets are pretty common in Korea as well, but it's not recommended to use bidets in public toilets, because it can easily become contaminated with excrement, germs, etc.

frozenport• 14 years ago

Are they calibrated to European shapes and sizes?

senthilnayagam• 14 years ago

Like Japan, in India people prefer water over paper for cultural reasons, we dont have bidets but use health faucets

gabchan• 14 years ago

The question should also be "why aren't the Chinese all using (at least) western toilets?" :P

rsaarelm• 14 years ago

Don't all new bathrooms have bidet showers?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bidet_shower

Huh, guess not. Those have been around in Finland at least since the late 80s, and don't have the "what's the deal with the computerized toilet seat" image problem.

S_A_P• 14 years ago

So not trolling here- serious question. My concern with these things is that the spray nozzle would get "dirty" and end up spraying fecal or urine tainted water at my bum. When you raise the seat does the spray nozzle raise with it? How easy is it to clean? I have 2-10 year old kids that would be using this thing so I am more concerned because they have not yet mastered good aim or toilet hygiene...

hasenj• 14 years ago

You don't need high tech. You just needs some pipes and a water hose; AKA: "shattaf". It's quite common in the middle east.

Unfortunately these are not easy to install in houses built in a North American style, because there are no floor drains in the toilet, so if you install a "shattaf" the floor will eventually soak in water; keeping it clean and dry is very annoying and difficult.

I don't understand why people in the West use toilet papers instead of washing.

When I have to use toilet papers, I will also use flushable wet wipes.

taofu• 14 years ago

Washlets do not substitute for toilet paper.

a)The toilet spray isn't sufficient to eradicate your fecal remains, unless it is adjusted to garden-hose spray levels. Painful.

b)Drying your sprayed behind with a heated fan is uncomfortable.

solarbunny• 14 years ago

How about this swedish self cleaning toilet: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o5ul7prwoiM

jtlienwis• 14 years ago

And once we get passsed the bidet stage then we can go on to the urine diverting toilet. Check out the latest toilet design competition run by the Gates foundation...

GFischer4• 14 years ago

Nice. I have a sketch of an urine recycling toilet - my point was to use recycled urine for the first flush cycle of feces, but I never had time nor money to make a prototype. I hope someone makes one, it should save quite a lot of water.

I respect Bill Gates for working on those projects - it would be easier just to manage traditionally all that money.

cynoclast• 14 years ago

I do have one of these. I rent, so I didn't get a super expensive one that would require running electricity etc, but it is wonderful. Soooooo much cleaner than paper.

Think about it, if you were to get shit on your hands you wouldn't just wipe it off with dry paper would you? Why do you wash your butt that way? It is completely illogical and very unsanitary.

I bought one of these: http://www.amazon.com/LUXE-Bidet-Vi-110-Non-Electric-Mechani...

$42 installed in 10 minutes with a screwdriver and wrench.

I love it! I wish other bathrooms had them.

EdgarVerona• 14 years ago

Because I don't want to fly that far just to use the bathroom!

... joking aside, I think it's the notion of using water that might freak people out. I'm not opposed to the concept, but I would worry about its effectiveness. I mean, I feel like I'd always want toilet paper there, even if it's just a placebo for making me feel truly clean.

Why aren't we all using Japanese toilets?

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