Car has more than 1.2M km on it – and it's still going strong

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/nova-scotia/1985-toyota-tercel-high-mileage-1.7597168

by Sgt_Apone • 12 months ago

230 266 12 months ago

SilverElfin• 12 months ago

Over the years, nearly everything on the vehicle has been replaced or repaired, and Campbell says the only original part is likely the body, and even that has had work done on it.

To me this makes it less interesting. I would be amazed if the original parts (outside of what gets replaced for maintenance) lasted that long. But it’s hard to judge how durable the car is when everything has been replaced

moffkalast2• 12 months ago

A literal ship of Theseus, arguably it's not even the same car.

jose_mr• 12 months ago

But when exactly did it stop being the same car?

sonorous_sub• 12 months ago

No man ever slides behind the wheel of the same Tercel twice.

e4325f• 12 months ago

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LAh8HryVaeY

HKH2• 12 months ago

Not literal.

Glawen• 12 months ago

Agree, it is not that impressive knowing that. Many 80s 90s Mercedes achieved that, and some with original engine

jillesvangurp• 12 months ago

This kind of mileage is unusual with cars but it's pretty normal for semis. But even with those, engines get overhauled and there's lots of cumulative maintenance over the years. There are still trucks build in the sixties in service in some places.

With EVs, we might get some battery packs and drive trains actually lasting this long. Maybe not with nmc batteries. But some lfp batteries seem to have enough charge cycles on paper that they really could last that long. 5000 charge cycles at 300 miles per charge adds up to about 1.5M miles. Of course lots of other things might fail. But at least electrical motors are known to be pretty durable. That's not a common failure point on EVs as far as I know. But there's plenty of other stuff in EVs (electronics, cooling systems, suspension, etc.) that can break.

Of course, it will be a while before we'll see EVs that have driven that far as those type of batteries have only been on the market for a few years and even with 100K miles driven per year (which is a lot), it would take 12 years to get to 1.2M. This Toyota took quite a few decades to get there.

According to the article, this car actually wasn't particularly durable (the words 'rust buckets' were used). But if you just keep patching it up, of course it will run fine. And greasing up all the bits that would normally rust seems smart as well.

teiferer2• 12 months ago

With EVs, we might get some battery packs and drive trains actually lasting this long.

I doubt it. The components in modern cars are not made to last as long. Neither is the software. Ever tried a 15 year old Iphone? A Tesla won't feel much different.

Everything is meant to be consumed nowadays, and eventually, sooner rather than later, replaced.

benjiro2• 12 months ago

One of the big questions is going to be, can you still find the battery packs 15 year, 20, 30 years later. The problem is that rebuilding battery packs is not a joke (and expensive). Assuming the same cells can be found / are not some crap 3th party manufactured in the future.

Lets also not forget that battery packs are full of electronics, BMS, and other items that may be less forgiving on a rebuild where batteries may be off in voltage or have a different charge cycle.

The future is going to be "interesting", especially for car collectors.

Getting a old antique car running is often not that hard (as long as it has not been standing where water can enter the engine. New hoses, oil changes, clean filters, and you can often get engines that have stood outside for 15, 20 years going again. Sure, its going to smoke, may need new piston rings, ... and Water being the prime killer.

But a battery pack in those conditions?

5000 charge cycles at 300 miles per charge adds up to about 1.5M miles.

Under ideal driving / charge situations...

* Hot areas like Spain. For instance, its know that batteries from EVs in hot area's tend to be much more degraded, then from cooler areas (make sense).

* Did they fast charge those batteries = your going to cycle down a LOT more. Remember, those 6000 cycle for stuff like LiPo batteries are based upon slow charging. General tip for people with solar: Overspec your battery sizes, your going to thank me.

* Did they always charge to 100%? What is the actual hidden reserve on a battery pack? Is it 5%, 10%?

* How many times did they drive below the 20% range.

There is a lot of elements that interact with your battery life. I mean, how many of use have thrown out perfectly good smartphone because the battery life became a disaster after only a few years. And the cost to replace the battery was not in proportion.

Recently people driving to holiday here in Europe had fun times... 15 a 25min wait times at charge stations, and when they hit 80% they got kicked off the fast chargers (because after 80% it becomes very slow to charge up those last 20%). Slow charging was not allowed. So people needed to stop around every 60 a 70% of their battery range on their holiday trip. Wait 15 a 25 min for a charger, then wait another 45 min for their charge. While the guy with his ICE engine, stops, tanks in 5 minutes, goes for another 50% more distance.

TimByte5• 12 months ago

I suspect in 30 years we'll be seeing million-mile EVs… but they'll probably be on their second or third infotainment system

torginus3• 12 months ago

I think history will show people have vastly overestimated the durability of EV and not just because of batteries.

Inverters have IGBTs and capacitors, both of which are wear items. I don't have an EV, but just got solar, and my installer told me that I can expect the inverter will need replacing in 15 years.

And solar inverters push far less wattage at far more benign circumstances than cars' do, which push 100s of kWs peak in hot and cold, mud and rain.

jama2112• 12 months ago

Tbf they said “nearly” everything. Probably it’s the same engine block, transmission housing, etc. And of course the shell, which is the most important. And I bet loads of interior too so where you sit feels very familiar.

diggan4• 12 months ago

Probably it’s the same engine block, transmission housing, etc.

If someone says "the only original part is likely the body", then that makes it sound like they've replaced pretty much everything except the body itself, including everything about the engine and transmission.

mrtbld• 12 months ago

The odometer most likely have not been replaced too

epolanski2• 12 months ago

I mean, it depends on the kind of work to be honest. Has he ever had to replace the whole engine or something?

Because if you get chain timing issues on a 2010 BMW diesel, you ain't repairing that, it's more expensive than a new car.

diggan4• 12 months ago

you ain't repairing that, it's more expensive than a new car.

Sometimes we're more connected/sentimental about specific physical items, than the prices themselves. I kind of feel like you have to be a special sort of person to own a BMW, so wouldn't surprise me that same "special" person would pay more to repair their specific car than replacing it with an identical one but without that issue.

Aurornis3• 12 months ago

Because if you get chain timing issues on a 2010 BMW diesel, you ain't repairing that, it's more expensive than a new car.

In the article the guy has 3 whole spare cars for donor parts and he does all the work himself. He’s not paying mechanic rates or even buying new parts (which are no longer available).

The amount of time and effort he’s put into this car is undoubtedly more expensive than buying a new car at this point, unless you count his time and free.

userbinator• 12 months ago

1M km (Tm?) is less than 750k miles, for those more familiar with customary units.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irv_Gordon had a Volvo with over 3.25 million miles (5.2Tm), although it's also had 3 engine rebuilds.

mykowebhn• 12 months ago

"Customary units"? I hate to break it to you, but most of the world uses the metric system.

And the conversion is actually fairly simple. 1M km is 600k miles, so you were in the ballpark.

Delk• 12 months ago

Gm, not Tm. A kilo is a thousand, and a million kilos is a billion. So giga, not tera.

burnt-resistor3• 12 months ago

It's all about getting creative with junk yards and third-party NLA substitute part sellers.

energy123• 12 months ago

Legend says he even replaced the odometer

mattbrewsbytes2• 12 months ago

I don't think anything with mechanical moving parts is going to last that long, with regular usage, and have original parts.

The fact that the owner can keep it going is a testament to the maintainability of combustion engines that don't have high tech computers in them.

Aurornis3• 12 months ago

The fact that the owner can keep it going is a testament to the maintainability of combustion engines that don't have high tech computers in them.

New engines with modern ECUs are every bit as maintainable.

The ECU doesn’t make an engine less maintainable. Modern engines would have more moving pieces such as variable valve timing but otherwise they’re very similar in concept and maintenance.

jmb99• 12 months ago

I don't think anything with mechanical moving parts is going to last that long, with regular usage, and have original parts.

I know of at least two cars with 800k km with original engines. Both GM small blocks (Gen 2, multiport fuel injection so computer-controlled). Neither engine has been opened since they rolled off the floor in the 90s. They’re not particularly efficient (only about 270HP out of 5.7L) but if taken care of, they probably will go forever.

Definitely an exception, though. Very little else on those cars is still original. But it can be done.

p1esk• 12 months ago

I don't think anything with mechanical moving parts is going to last that long, with regular usage, and have original parts.

You should visit any third world country: plenty of old cars still running around.

TimByte5• 12 months ago

I get that, but I think the impressive part here isn't that the original parts are still there: it's that the car has been kept on the road for 40 years and 1.2M km through sheer persistence and maintenance

vegancap• 12 months ago

Toyota and Honda engines are just ridiculous

HelloUsername• 12 months ago

As soon as I read the title, I knew it was gonna be about Toyota.

Ccecil• 12 months ago

Keep fixing it...ignore the odometer.

This is the only way to exceed the forging cost.

Tade02• 12 months ago

It's less than (originally Matt Farah's) million mile Lexus:

https://www.autoevolution.com/news/mechanic-restores-an-ls-4...

Although the current owner's plan to do a cannonball run in it is something I find off-putting. His previous stupid idea was to put a turbocharger and see how long it will last, fortunately his fans dissuaded him from doing it.

jacquesm4• 12 months ago

They're both Toyota's, but the Lexus cost an order of magnitude more so by that measure it is not nearly as impressive. This is a low end car we're talking about.

Tade02• 12 months ago

Low end cars tend to be more reliable as they're:

1. Built at a larger scale and at lower margins, so thoroughly tested beforehand.

2. Equipped with fewer features which might require maintenance.

3. Using generationally older powertrains oriented for economy, not performance.

That being said Lexus' original differentiator was reliability - particularly versus its peers price wise.

Also I guess this doesn't apply to various four wheeled appliance manufacturers like GM, Ford, Stellantis, Renault–Nissan–Mitsubishi, all of whom do cheap out on essential components.

mrweasel• 12 months ago

There are some calculations that makes replacing a old gas or diesel powered car more environmentally friendly, as compered to buying a new electric car. I do wonder where the tipping point is though, and if there isn't an environmental argument to be made that not only should government bad the sale of new internal combustion engine cars, but they should also ban cars with an expected lifespan shorter than e.g. 15 - 20 years.

realusername• 12 months ago

The calculation I've seen put it around 50k km, depends of how good the local grid is of course.

hdgvhicv4• 12 months ago

If externalities were correctly priced in to fuel, rare earths, rubber, road wear etc then it would be easy to see, the cheaper the better.

But they aren’t, not even close. Oil is massively subisidised by the military before the environmental costs. Brake particulates and tyres don’t cover the cost of microplastics and lung damage, heavy cars don’t pay anywhere near the damage they cause to the roads and bridges etc.

Due to this you can argue pretty much whatever you want by ignoring certain costs depending what you want to come out with.

My petrol car is 20 years old, it’s done 70,000 miles, it weighs about 1,000kg and burns through 300 litres of unleaded each year to do the 3,000 miles I do in it.

I suspect scrapping and replacing this with even a small electric car would not be globally environmentally worthwhile. There may be improvements to local air quality assuming regenerative breaking etc, that may be offset by increased tyre and road wear though, even ignoring the impact of the co2 to generate the 80kWh a year it would require.

while_true_2• 12 months ago

20 year old cars tend to be heavy polluters because they don't meet the latest emissions standards. Here in California the state will buy old cars and scrap them to get dirty emitters out of service. Also, nearly every day electrical generation is over 50% using solar, wind or hydro so EVs are cleaner here than any ICE vehicle by far.

while_true_2• 12 months ago

That 1985 Toyota emits more GHG and NOx per mile than a new vehicle because it wasn't built to meet the latest US or Canadian emissions standards. Older vehicles emit more pollutants so in some US states the government will buy the car to have it scrapped, thus improving the overall fleet emissions statewide. In California there are owners who keep and maintain pre-1975 vehicles because they have little or no smog control systems, are easy to work on, and they are exempt from mandatory bi-annual smog testing.

UncleOxidant• 12 months ago

I'm pretty sure that holding onto my '98 Civic is more environmentally friendly than buying a new EV - especially since I only drive ~3000 miles/year (If I drove 10K+ miles/year then the calculation would likely skew towards an EV). The Civic still runs great and it's easy to repair when something does go wrong. And the mileage is quite good - ~30MPG combined (easily get 37MPG on the freeway).

raptorraver• 12 months ago

I wonder how many of the cars manufactured today are still here after million kilometers. My guess is none as they are impossible to fix yourself.

HPsquared2• 12 months ago

One saving grace is a lot of the tricky electronic parts are shared between several models, many different manufacturers even.

As long as some enterprising pirate (probably a shady Russian forum) keeps hold of all the model-specific software.

Aurornis3• 12 months ago

I wonder how many of the cars manufactured today are still here after million kilometers

The overwhelming majority of 1980s Toyota Tercels do not make it to a million kilometers. This one didn’t, either. It has had every part replaced, many multiple times over.

The owner has 3 donor parts cars and there’s a photo of his piles of parts like alternators. The original car didn’t last a million kilometers. He’s just been replacing parts constantly.

My guess is none as they are impossible to fix yourself.

No they’re not. I have a lot of car friends and we all do most of our own work. One of them has now opened a shop and services BMWs including engine rebuilds of modern engines.

This is a myth. Service manuals are available. Even the digital repair tools are widely pirated, but you can generally buy a short term license to use them yourself if you want.

swarnie• 12 months ago

This car has 1,253,070 kilometres on it — and counting.
When it turned over from 999,999 kilometres to 000,000 kilometres in September 2017

The idea of averaging 31k miles a year is just insane to me. My car hasn't done that since i bought it new 8 years ago.

Sylarr• 12 months ago

It's 31k kilometers so around 20k miles.

mvanbaak• 12 months ago

pretty normal commute

franze• 12 months ago

Over the years, nearly everything on the vehicle has been replaced or repaired, and Campbell says the only original part is likely the body, and even that has had work done on it.

aka

This is my grandfather’s axe. My father replaced the handle. I replaced the head.

jasoncartwright• 12 months ago

In the UK we call this Trigger's Broom https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=56yN2zHtofM

HPsquared2• 12 months ago

Maybe the axe exists as the interface point between the pieces. And the history logbook.

amelius• 12 months ago

Ship of Theseus

donatj• 12 months ago

745,645 miles for Americans like myself who can't be bothered to do the conversion.

RandomBacon• 12 months ago

My brorher got 350,000 miles in a cheap Hyundai doing the oil changes himself. He only replaced the water pump before he traded it in for a Kia. He is nearly at 250,000 on the Kia with no repairs needed so far.

burnt-resistor3• 12 months ago

More than Otto. Wow.

I have an 85 Vanagon Westfalia with a modest 450k km.

SoftTalker6• 12 months ago

Air-cooled engine? The wasserboxers were terrible.

SquareWheel• 12 months ago

1.2 gigametres? That's traveled further than some satellites.

kentiko• 12 months ago

Since then, he's used it as his daily driver, putting on at least 120 kilometres a day driving from his home in Wyses Corner, N.S., to Halifax and back each day of his working life.

120km per day of commuting is crazy to me. I work from home and occasionally do a 14km bicycle commute to the office.

jacquesm4• 12 months ago

In Canada, the USA and Australia this is nothing special. Low population density means long commutes.

sys_64738• 12 months ago

Is it still the same car?

SebFender• 12 months ago

Back in the 90's my dad and I put a more than 500k on a Volvo 740 and mostly running original parts (oil filters, brakes etc were changed throughout the decade 84/96 - Québec winters included).

The car ran fine and was ultimately sold to a taxi driver that apparently brought it to close to a million (no proof though).

I think now days people treat cars like phones. Minimal continual maintenance can work wonders and save you a bundle in the process.

nickd2001• 12 months ago

A friend bought a 14-yr-old one of these for little at an auction in 1999. As someone who knew little about cars, her logic was, it "looked OK' and had had one owner, and crucially, the radio was tuned to a NPR classical music station and therefore anyone who listened to that would have treated their car responsibly. ;) Suffice to say, this was an excellent purchase, reliable and inexpensive to run, in fact in order to find out whether some maintenance was due or not she managed to track down the previous owner who turned out to be a middle-aged woman who was just as responsible as my friend imagined. ;)

unclenoriega• 12 months ago

This reminds me of going hill hopping as a kid with my radio tuned to the local NPR classical music station. Once when I went a little airborne, my engine shutoff upon landing. (It restarted OK though.)

whartung• 12 months ago

I have been "a little airborne" in a Toyota Tercel, we and the vehicle survived OK. I dragged one of those over large chunks of the Nevada desert. FWD FTW. I sometimes shiver looking back at the places we took that thing.

We didn't have an NPR Classical Music station to listen to, however.

I will note in the future, however, when selling my car, to tune it to NPR.

trenchpilgrim• 12 months ago

Heh, in high school my radio presets were: NPR station 1, NPR station 2, and classical. And I drove like a wannabe street racer!

buyucu• 12 months ago

I knew it was a Toyota before I read the article!

gchamonlive• 12 months ago

Over the years, nearly everything on the vehicle has been replaced or repaired, and Campbell says the only original part is likely the body, and even that has had work done on it.

Tercel of Theseus

physix• 12 months ago

When I lived in Germany, in the 90s, I regularly sat in diesel Mercedes Benz taxis with over a million kms under the hood. Private drivers usually. Many had giant mileages.

We used to say (tongue in cheek) that after 250k, the MB diesel engine was broken in. I don't think MB makes them like they used to anymore.

moltar• 12 months ago

Same in Canada but in specially made taxi grade Crown Vics (85B)

Someone I knew had it and they drove it 24/7 in 3 shifts and it had over a million kilometers on it. Visually looked fine and ran fine.

morkalork• 12 months ago

I remember someone from the prairies telling me that used Crown Vics were the ideal first car for teenagers and were highly sought after in the 90s/2000s.

_heimdall6• 12 months ago

No diesel engine is made well these days in my opinion, at least as far as passenger vehicles go.

Emissions systems on diesel engines have made the reliability pretty abysmal. That's not to say improving emissions isn't a good goal, but it was implemented terribly.

Between regulators over prescribing solutions and car companies finding the quickest and cheapest "fix" every step of the way, we ended with horribly complex motors that break down much earlier than before. It'd be interesting to see a comparison of total emissions when a 90s diesel is still on the road today compared to a newer diesel that is effectively junk in 10 years or a couple hundred thousand miles.

amluto• 12 months ago

Given that one single old car without functioning emission controls will stink up an entire block far more than that entire block full of ordinary, modern traffic, I would expect that the (non-CO2) air pollution from an old diesel is far higher than that from building and operating new diesel vehicles.

fransje268• 12 months ago

Let me wager a guess: Mercedes models W124?

I don't think MB makes them like they used to anymore.

You guessed correctly. The 1980's W124 was one of those cars that would keep going and going. Mechanically great, with a galvanized chassis and bodywork that made it also pretty rust resistant.

The 1993 version of the W124, supposed to be an "improved" remodeled version of the original car, was a worst car in every aspect. It rusted, the plastics were cheaper, etc.

The follow-up, the W210, is the model that cost MB dearly. Through cost-cutting and greed, they lost a huge chunk of the taxi market. The car itself was also an absolute rust-bucket piece of cr*p, the interior was also worst, with the whole woes compounded by crappy electronics.

MB as a brand hasn't really recovered from that. The engineering excellency, attention to detail, and engineering pride that made those W123/W124 almost unkillable is lost, and won't be found again.

formerly_proven2• 12 months ago

Yet W210, 211 etc. still sold millions of vehicles and are still on the road in numbers.

fasteo• 12 months ago

I have a w245, 410.000 Km. Still going strong

bluetomcat• 12 months ago

The W210s did indeed rust badly and the interiors weren't on par with previous generations, but in purely mechanical terms, they were still solid cars. The diesels (particularly E250 TD and E290 TD) could cover 700k+ kilometres without any interventions to the engine or the transmission. The W211 is an improvement to the W210 in almost every aspect, and they are still plentiful on the roads in Eastern Europe.

TimByte5• 12 months ago

Once you start swapping over-engineering for bean-counting, you don't just lose durability, you lose a whole loyal customer base

jacquesm4• 12 months ago

One of my sons drives a W210 that has now got well over 300K on it and is still running like new. You can see the plastics are drying out and there is some minor rust in places but it is still a very solid car and likely will continue to run for many years to come. It's the kombi version, 320.

SoftTalker6• 12 months ago

The W210 was a very good car, the so-called "Camry" of Mercedes-Benz in terms of reliability, except it had one huge problem: rust.

The true "million mile" Mercedes are probably the W123 diesels. Built very solid, they will still rust if you live in areas where road salt is used, but most cars will eventually.

It's weird how some cars are much more prone to rust than others. I had a Toyota truck in the 1980s and it rusted so fast you'd almost swear you could see it happening. Mechanically it never had any problems.

Teknomadix2• 12 months ago

I can confirm as an owner of several W124 vehicles, most notably the 1987 North American market S124, this is the 300 TDT, a station wagon version of the W124 chassis with the OM603 turbo diesel. Currently my wagons clock has just over 370,000 mi. This is a unicorn car in North America. They only sold this car during one sales year in 1987, with this particular engine configuration. This engine can also be found in several other cars around the same era from Mercedes-Benz.

I also own a 1999 W210 with the OM606 turbo diesel. This is the electronically controlled and upgraded version of the OM603. I can confirm that the w w210 is plagued with the myriad of problems. But it is still a fairly nice chassis with modern features and once one becomes acustomized with its particular idiosyncrasies it isn't really that horrible. But it's definitely not the tank that the w124 and w123 series chassis were. The primary prize is the OM606 engine. Which is commonly extracted from the W210 chassis and used to repower any number of other vehicles. There are lots of ways to crank tons of horsepower out of these engines, but at the sacrifice of their longevity.

oriettaxx• 12 months ago

My friend has the W124/125 first model, 250D, with the super 5 cylinder diesel engine: OM 602.912 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mercedes-Benz_OM602_engine

It's not just a beauty, is working super fine: and never stops. They made the 200D, 250D, 300D with the same engine, just adding one piston.

My friends comes and go from the EU to Turkey (5.000 km) with no issues at all: on the way he stops at a Turkish dealer of auto parts www.brossautoparts.com where he is able to just get the little plastic parts they get ruined (one was a little plastic wheel on the mileage meters they gave him for free 3 months ago).

In the second hand marked you can find this car for 4.000€ which is a totally ridiculous price !

He told me about the right and left mirror, which are not symmetric: Mercedes made a long research on usability and efficacy on mirrors, and discovered the right mirror can and should be smaller and squared (and, of course, remote controlled), while the left mirror was surprisingly preferred controlled by hand, so there is just a stick of metal (a rudimentary joystick) the driver can hold and move.

The sad is that he told me the second and third series had issues (as somebody else wrote already above) with metals, with the plastic on the side, and unfortunately with the electrical wiring (replaced with a more Eco-friendly version which did not last more then 10 years).

Let's remember the designer: the Italian Bruno Sacco, who had to fight a bit to have the new design accepted: the change from w123 to w124 was a big risk, and they made a test with the Mercedes 190 (a smaller version of the w124): which was a great success of the 80s (the coolest car a youngster could have in Italy at that time).

Yes, it is sad that no factories would consider such a good quality product nowadays: I remember what the famous marketing professor Kotler once told Philips and Braun about their reliable electric razors: "So, you find a customer who buys your razor, and then you make it so reliable that he won’t need another one for the next 40 years? Are you crazy?"

protimewaster2• 12 months ago

Those MB diesels made it to the States too, and they were equally well respected here in my experience. Although, there's long been a diesel aversion among some part of the population here, so it was maybe a narrower subset of the population familiar with the legend of the MB diesels.

I drove one for years, acquired when they were available as a quite cheap ~15 year old car. I've since switched to a Toyota and been quite happy with that. I don't know how long the current Toyotas will last, but the golden era Toyotas I think probably last about as well as the legendary MB diesels (with the bonus of not having to track down vacuum leaks).

torginus3• 12 months ago

there's long been a diesel aversion among some part of the

which is well-justified. Diesels just aren't clean in any sense of the word, and I guess Americans make a lot more short trips which Diesels aren't well-suited for, and are not as concerned with saving on fuel as it's much cheaper.

culopatin• 12 months ago

They are super popular in the Bay Area. Never seen so many together. I smell them coming,

Arubis• 12 months ago

You can still find these things running all over west Africa.

jcgrillo• 12 months ago

I had a 1984 W123 300TD Turbodiesel I bought with 356k miles on the odometer (which was broken, total mileage unknown). I drove it for over 100k more miles before I sold it. It had no blowby and no perceptible oil consumption between changes. The OM617 with MW pump was a fantastic engine. The Garrett turbo had something to be desired though so I replaced it with a much more efficient Holset HX-30 which worked great with the pump maxed out. I estimated from 0-60 times it was putting out around 150HP, up from 120HP stock. The 722.3 transmission didn't give me too much trouble either but I did rebuild the valve body with a shift kit to make it shift better. The one major issue I ran into was the rear hydraulic self leveling suspension. The hydraulic struts were NLA so I pored over a bunch of parts manuals and eventually found a Lesjofors spring that was the right height and spring rate--I believe from a later model S600--which worked perfectly with Bilstein HDs from a W123 sedan. Should never have sold that car.

I currently own a W210 E300 Turbodiesel. I bought it with 49.5k miles, it currently has 120k. Overall it's been a decent car, the OM606/722.6 drivetrain is great. The rest of it is pretty miserable though. I would like someday to swap this drivetrain into a W124 wagon, with a standalone transmission controller and the injection pump from an OM603 to make the engine fully mechanical.

In the meantime, I'm working on rebuilding a 2.65 rear diff from an SL class car to swap in. I have a TCU from another car that had this final drive ratio so hopefully it'll work. The stock 3.07 ratio is no good for US highways. In 5th gear at 2250rpm (bsfc minimum) the speed is about 100kph (62mph). With the 2.65 rear it'll be more like 77mph which is where I usually set my cruise control. Should get a lot better fuel economy and less noise.

iknowstuff2• 12 months ago

Quite the monologue you got there bud

_fat_santa• 12 months ago

I remember one day I took my car to the mechanic and saw they were doing a head job on a Toyota Sienna (the minivan) that was used as a Taxi. Took a peek inside and realized the car had something like 450k miles.

Now a proud 4Runner owner, I see on forums all the time guys bragging about hitting 300k, 400k and as high as 600k in their 4Runners.

stockresearcher• 12 months ago

Well, as you yourself saw, they still need maintenance and repairs. And the “traditional” larger Toyota engines are gone. Because their fuel economy was always terrible. 600k miles in a 4Runner at 60-75 cents a mile in fuel doesn’t sit too well with people when it costs 35 cents a mile in a Hyundai. That pays for a lot of repairs!

The 4Runner of last year was the last traditional uncomplicated V6. The Lexus GX of two years ago was the last traditional V8. Aside from their small 4-cylinders, it’s all super-complicated turbos and we don’t know if those will hold up as well. Early indications are that they aren’t quite as special compared to everyone else’s super-complicated turbos.

i_am_proteus• 12 months ago

I recall a Greek 240D that had exceeded 4M kM (i.e. 4 GM). Regular motor and transmission rebuilds at intervals that would shame a contemporary dealer's service department.

tsoukase• 12 months ago

4.6 Mkm. Translated link:

https://www-gocar-gr.translate.goog/news/feed/48650,ellhnikh...

TimByte5• 12 months ago

Nowadays it feels like the electronics or emissions gear will take the car down long before the engine wears out

torginus3• 12 months ago

It's weird how EV fans doggedly believe that EVs will outlast mechanical cars because they got so few moving parts, even experience shows the electronics often fail before the mechanical parts, both in cars and household appliances.

insane_dreamer2• 12 months ago

I remember taxi drivers back then saying they would only buy MB because while they were more expensive, they lasted forever.

jmrm2• 12 months ago

Imagine how things are going on that MB are using petrol engines from the Chinese brand Geeky.

petee• 12 months ago

SAABs used to actually hit a million miles (not 745,000 mi, but metric sure does sound more impressive) with litle effort. If I recall there used to be a million, and half-million mile club

My dad once got a used saab 99 (a nice tomato soup color) and we rolled the odometer while we owned it. Great car with proper maintenance, which used to be sooo easy and accessible.

calvinmorrison• 12 months ago

my saabs, none a million, though none have working odometers anymore. but all have over 300,000 miles and run in various states of good to bad. with a little effort, they keep ticking.

cpursley2• 12 months ago

Title could just be "Toyota has more than 1.2 km on it", as we already all know it would be a Toyota.

volkadav• 12 months ago

tbh I was guessing Volvo 240-series. I suspect cockroaches will be driving those battleships around after the bomb/climate collapse/asteroid/big crunch.

anonu• 12 months ago

My dad had the station wagon for a while (in a Middle Eastern country). He would regularly get little notes asking if it was for sale.

cpursley2• 12 months ago

Didn't those things have all sorts of electrical gremlins?

potato37328424• 12 months ago

Nobody who isn't fairly ignorant would've been surprised if it was a 4cyl 5spd Ford Ranger, an old Volvo 240, an 2000s diesel dodge or GM, a crown vic cop car, a Honda Accord, a Ford E-series or Chevy Savannah etc, etc. Somewhere there's probably a rusted out '99ish Grand Caravan that's close to a mil and on it's 6th transmission.

Pretty much every vehicle that isn't equipped with some achilles heel or highly engineered to a price point can go a mil if you take reasonably good care of it and don't mind throwing 0-1 engines and 2-4 transmissions in.

paffdragon• 12 months ago

Reminds me of the Škoda Fabia with 1M kms I read about some time ago https://www.skoda-storyboard.com/en/models/million-kilometre...

jbeard4• 12 months ago

Over the years, nearly everything on the vehicle has been replaced or repaired, and Campbell says the only original part is likely the body, and even that has had work done on it.

It’s the Tercel of Theseus: if every part has been replaced, is it still the same car?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ship_of_Theseus

xattt• 12 months ago

A bigger question might be is whether the sum of replacement parts is worth less than the sum of the part.

actionfromafar• 12 months ago

TCO is more interesting IMHO.

tedk-42• 12 months ago

VIN plate removed too? Maybe the engine block is also the original...

comprev• 12 months ago

Trigger's broom!

[0] https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=56yN2zHtofM

pier25• 12 months ago

this is the comment I was looking for

vehemenz• 12 months ago

The answer isn't as sexy as the question. Ontological questions, and therefore mereological questions, are a matter of convention based on how closely-associated relations—like how the "parts" of the "car" function—cohere over space and time.

rendaw• 12 months ago

Well the odometer's gotta be the same, right? I reckon the soul of a car resides in the odometer.

yakkers• 12 months ago

If it's a mechanical one, there's a possibility that it's been repaired or replaced. The mechanism after all these years will likely wear out. At the same time, I know someone with a car whose odometer has been at 249,999km for a few years now.

As for (early) digital odometers, does the soul more specifically exist in the EEPROM chip in the instrument cluster* that stores the odometer data?

*at least on my late-90s car, this is how the odometer/trip meter works.

dennis_jeeves2• 12 months ago

I reckon the soul of a car resides in the odometer.

Citation?...

jschveibinz2• 12 months ago

Fun fact: The average replacement rate of cells in our bodies (generally speaking) is around 7 to 10 years. So all of our parts have been replaced several times over...

Retric• 12 months ago

Neurons live much longer than that, also not everything is cells. Parts of your teeth for example can be 80+ years old if you keep em that long.

durovo• 12 months ago

Speak for yourself, old man

tracerbulletx2• 12 months ago

Is a wave the particles of water in it at any given instant, or something else entirely.

geodel• 12 months ago

Yeah, thats the first thought came to my mind as well. It does give me a great deal of satisfaction when a tool, gadget or anything last long with daily use and limited maintenance.

v5v3• 12 months ago

Trigger's Broom

https://youtu.be/56yN2zHtofM

stefanka• 12 months ago

Everything but all the diodes down its left hand side

j45• 12 months ago

They clarify the body is still original in the article. So nearly everything isn’t everything.

hermitcrab3• 12 months ago

It is the same broom, it's just had 2 new heads and 3 new handles.

sethx• 12 months ago

Thats pretty normal in Cuba

sam8401• 12 months ago

"It is not the car. It is the owner"

oulipo• 12 months ago

That's a very interesting article, and a call for more easily repairable products!

That's the kind of thing that inspired us to build a repairable electric battery for ebikes at https://gouach.com !

We want more repair, less planned obsolescence :)

Matterless• 12 months ago

Knew before clicking that this would be a Toyota. Of course. Meanwhile my Nissan is near-death at 100k. Stupid CVT...

cholantesh• 12 months ago

I didn't know Nissans were known for being unreliable; my first car was a hand-me-down Sentra that ran smoothly till I sold it at ~220k. I've owned three cars since, I think the worst was a used Elantra that I just put out to pasture at 198k. Persistent electronic issues and terribly uncomfortable on the passenger side. The straw that broke the camel's back for me was an asking price of 10k to repair a faulty airbag sensor. Hoping the RAV4 that replaced it will live up to its reputation.

hylaride• 12 months ago

Car reliability can vary so much. Some vendors have a deserved reputation for overall quality (Toyota) where issues are usually the exception (accepting the fact that issues can always happen). Others used to have terrible reputations, but are much better now (most of the Korean brands). Some have varying QA issues, depending on model, shifting suppliers, factory, etc (GM, Stellantis). Some can mostly be reliable, but when they do break it’s expensive (VW). Sometimes the car vendor is good, but the dealer you’re at can make all the difference.

That being said, you’ll always meet somebody burned by a particular vendor (or their dealer), then swear off them forever. We’re also going through a huge shift in the market with the rise of electrification and China. In some ways electric cars can me even more reliable with fewer moving parts. In other ways the software matters more and batteries replacements can be even more expensive than a new engine in a traditional car.

jfengel• 12 months ago

I suspect that it would have been less expensive to ditch it 600,000 km ago and just get a new one. And possibly about the same in terms of environmental cost.

Getting those parts used would be less expensive, and a win for the environment, but the labor cost is very high.

xyst• 12 months ago

Over the years, nearly everything on the vehicle has been replaced or repaired, and Campbell says the only original part is likely the body, and even that has had work done on it.

A modern "ship of theseus" paradox.

It’s more impressive that this man has the fortitude and dedication to keep spare parts, constantly maintain it, and even have back up vehicles for all these years.

If the article mentioned the car had its original engine this entire time. I would have seen it as an anomaly and possibly a good testament to Toyota engineering and need to keep up with maintenance.

63• 12 months ago

Kind of a nothing story if everything has been replaced. My car could make it to 1.2M km too if I replaced the engine every time it gave out. Seems like a huge time and money sink for no good reason. Not to judge the man for having a hobby of course, let him have fun, but the news article is misleading.

sharkweek• 12 months ago

A much better example is the Toyota Tundra that made it to 1m miles with only a transmission replacement at the ~800k mile mark

https://www.motortrend.com/features/million-mile-tundra-the-...

Toyota gave the guy a new truck so they could study the one he had.

As a Toyota fan boy myself (still driving a 2000 4Runner into the ground), those 2000s builds were such a great era of engineering. That being said, I think they’ve lost a step over the last decade (don’t get my started on the new v4/v6 turbo blocks they’re building…).

unethical_ban• 12 months ago

It becomes a human story, yes. He maintained a durable system rather then junk the whole thing after ten years.

Would he have been better off buying four new cars in the meantime?

potato37328424• 12 months ago

There are marketability factors at play here.

I know a guy down south (i.e. no rust) who's got comparable milage across his personal "fleet" of '99 Town and Country minivans that he's been running since the 00s. Kinda hard to put a mil on any one of them when he's only one guy but whatever. I know another guy who's got >500k on a Jetta that he runs on waste motor oil from his job and removed all the seats from because utility vehicle.

Nobody will ever write a story about them because "hur hur hur, well kept Toyota" is considered admirable and bending a crashed Town and Country back into shape because you're invested in the platform and learning the ins and outs of diesel combustion the hard way so you can use "free" fuel are considered trashy.

sleepyguy• 12 months ago

We have a 2000 4Runner with approximately 325,000 miles (523036 km), and nothing has been replaced. Currently, it isn't a daily driver but a spare for anyone to use. Tires, Brakes, fan belt, and oil changes, that's all. There was an old Avalon that had over 425k miles on it, but during a storm, a tree fell on it and it was written off.

mitkebes• 12 months ago

There's a Tesla that has driven about 2 million Km (1.2 million miles) as of last year.

https://www.teslarati.com/tesla-model-s-1-2-million-miles-10...

caminanteblanco• 12 months ago

Wow, with 13 motor replacements, that's got to be $80,000-110,000 in replacement costs just for that part.

bluGill• 12 months ago

new cars would be far more than that for people who only buy new. Even if you bought 3 year old cars and replaced them in year 10 you are getting that costs.

i buy used cars because while I can fix things it time I don't have. I'm looking at a transmisson rebuild - it would take me 6 months to do myself. Or I can buy a newer car that works and get around now.

1970-01-01• 12 months ago

These old economy boxes were designed to be as simple as possible. We simply don't have anything like it today. While the durability of year 2000+ vehicles has very consistently improved, their repairability is trending exactly opposite. A "lifetime" part failure can be 5x the time and effort to remove and replace compared to the pre-2000 models.

TimByte5• 12 months ago

Honestly, 1.2M km in Atlantic Canada is even more impressive given the winters and salt... most cars here rust into oblivion long before the engine quits

bettyx11382• 12 months ago

even gen x cars r tough

bettyx11382• 12 months ago

even the gen x cars are badass

mulmen• 12 months ago

Of course it’s a Toyota. The only surprise is that it’s a Tercel instead of a Corolla.

jelder• 12 months ago

I grew up in a Tercel family, and we too had a “parts car” in the back yard. Reliable, safe, repairable car the likes of which simply don’t exist anymore.

nayuki2• 12 months ago

The article and comments show that as usual, the general public doesn't use metric prefixes effectively.

While it is technically correct to say "1.2 million km" or "1,200,000 km", it is needlessly verbose. It is written more succinctly as "1.2 Gm (gigametres)". However, it is incorrect to stack prefixes like "1.2 Mkm".

After I point this out, the usual complaints will surface: "But no one knows what a gigametre is! We're all used to talking about odometers in only kilometres. No one uses big prefixes." Oh really? Are you telling me you don't know the difference between a kilobyte and a gigabyte? Should we revert to calling a 2.4 GHz Wi-Fi frequency as "2.4 million kHz", because kilohertz is familiar to people working with audio frequencies and AM radio?

Overall, I think we should use the right prefixes for the right job. If you're talking about city blocks, use metres. If you're talking about a single trip, use kilometres. If you're talking about annual driving distance, use megametres. If you're bragging about how long your car has survived, use gigametres (or at least thousands of megametres).

js8• 12 months ago

Distance to Sun is roughly 150 Gm. More useful in this case is probably distance to the Moon, which is 0.38 Gm. So the car has traveled this distance more than three times.

nabla9• 12 months ago

Before reading the article I was certain that it's either: A Toyota, or Mercedes-Benz from 1970-80s.

bombela• 12 months ago

1.2mega-kilo-meter? 1.2 million kilo-meter?

What about the proper unit: 1.2Gm (1.2 giga-meter).

insane_dreamer2• 12 months ago

Are there any new cars today that are considered as long-lasting as some of the old favorites like the Volvo 240, Benz 240D, etc.?

Lexus? Subaru Outback?

potato37328424• 12 months ago

Pick a flagship "would be bad for our reputation if we f it up) product from and spec it out so that it gets well proven and ironed out major assemblies.

jmrm2• 12 months ago

Some European Diesels have reached that amount with the same engine block and head ;-)

My dad's BWM E60 has a M47 2.0L Turbo Diesel, and with around 440,000km keeps going strong.

He probably will change it when it reach the half million due to being an old car, but the sad part here is how we won't probably be able to buy any brand new car that could reach that amount of miles without spending a lot of money on the way on repairs.

potato37328424• 12 months ago

The Toyota fanboys in these comments are a really great illustration of how human factors, cliche's and circle jerks degrade discussion

Nobody who doesn't have some bias derived ignorance would've been surprised if it was a 4cyl 5spd Ford Ranger in fleet service, an old Volvo 240 or Honda Accord in commuting service, an 2000s diesel Dodge or GM in work truck service, etc, etc. There are a lot of "good" vehicles out there that can get close to half a mil with fairly cheap work, from there it's just a matter of having an owner who cares to make the investment, something much more likely to happen to a "cool niche car" for which there aren't a ton of like-priced replacements available like a Tercel Wagon than a more boring vehicle.

martini333• 12 months ago

equivalent of 1.5 round trips to the moon

Thanks. As a frequent visitor to the moon, I know exactly what that's like.

thePhytochemist• 12 months ago

Lol, I agree it's a good example of an odd reporter metric. How about 30 times around the earth, isn't that impressive too?

guywithahat2• 12 months ago

I hate to be a purist about this sort of thing but once you start replacing engines/transmissions, having a million mile car starts losing its novelty. This isn't some exceptionally reliable vehicle, it's just a guy who has more time and money then sense

rbanffy• 12 months ago

I had a Volkswagen that reached 1M km, mostly on original parts, with no major component replaced. It was stolen and, most likely, scrapped for parts. Her organs live on in other cars.

randcraw• 12 months ago

I was curious what make and model achieved this, knowing that it couldn't be a Honda Ridgeline since their transmissions tend to explode without warning. Mine (a 2019) just disintegrated at 35,000 miles despite my changing out its fluids only two months back.

Maybe my next car will be a Toyota. My 1994 Pickup (like the one the guys on Top Gear couldn't kill) was pretty durable, though the frame did rust to bits at only 60,000 miles.

jorts• 12 months ago

It’s an 85 Toyota Tercel.

randerson• 12 months ago

Even more impressive is racking up that mileage on the original engine: https://www.corvettemuseum.org/high-mileage-c5-corvette-dona... (It's owner probably also had a little more fun doing that mileage.)

There are also a few Porsche 911 Turbos with that level of mileage. A guy on Rennlist posts occasional updates about his one which he even tracks quite regularly: https://rennlist.com/forums/996-turbo-forum/662617-high-mile... (Engine was restored once, out of precaution after it blew a turbo at 610K km, but when they opened it up it had very little wear & tear, only a small air leak.)

The secret to longevity really is more frequent oil changes than the manufacturer suggests, and doing most of the mileage with the engine fully warmed up.

mitjam• 12 months ago

A relative of mine drives a VW Polo with 3 cylinders and below 1000 ccm. It always sounded a bit off, like a tractor, but the car now has around 450.000 km on the clock and is still going strong, looking great, and is low-maintenance and fuel-efficient.

The secret: she lives in a rural area and cruises most of the time with constant 80-90 km/h.

A similar car used in a city with many start/stop cycles would probably not last as long.

hermitcrab3• 12 months ago

I knew it was going to be a Honda or a Toyota when I read the headline.

Nevermark• 12 months ago

Genius!

“Do not go gentle into that good night. Rage, rage against the dying of the light.”

I expect the owner has learned some interesting things in his ongoing mission to continue life with the car he loves.

I have not seen it stated explicitly anywhere, although it is often a subtext of some discussions about the value of "diversity". Usually positive diversity is talked about either in terms of inclusivity, or of the usefulness of different backgrounds converging to tackle common problems.

But I thinks idiosynchratacity ("idio-synchra-tacity") is incredibly important, as a measure of the health and value of a civilization.

As apposed to diversity of minds triangulating on common solutions to shared problems, idiosynchratacity is the usefulness of having diverse minds seeking to solve novel subjectively motivated problems. With an emphasis on self-generated "problems" or missions, that may appear to no objective value to others.

As information and problem solving tools disperse, there is great value in people who find hard problems interesting, whatever the lack of apparent or immediate merit. Who follow through and solve those problems. Something is always learned. New conditions may be created that in turn create new idiosyncratic problems to solve, or shed unexpected light on solutions to more commonly recognized and valued problems.

Respect for idiosynchraticity is also a strong measure of reciprocal respect in a society.

Can we respect those we don't understand? The strange, the odd, the weird? Niche artists, serious practitioners of uncommon fetishes, collectors with obscure criteria, mountain climbers, or those that need to "resolve" well solved problems, but in some arbitrarily challenging way. All just for the joy of it?

Widespread idiosynchraticity maximizes civilizations deployment of unbounded curiosity, and the search for new ideas, in the most non-obvious directions.

Idiosynchraticity also makes the world much more culturally interesting for all of us.

It maximizes the contribution of each individual, when they do something different or orthogonal to mainstream interests, instead of retreading common paths.

More individuals, greater populations, have much greater value if the increase in individuals increases idiosynchraticity, as apposed to amplifying conformity.

There are obvious things we want from super intelligence as it comes into being. Alignment with our needs, which I prefer to recast as alignment with general ethics (they will need the positive sums of ethics between themselves too), is a big one.

But maximal idiosynchraticity should also be valued. The worst case of course, being an endlessly improving and effective AI, completely focused in turning the universe's resources into paper clips.

A much more realistic, just as tragic fate, would be AI's competitively bent on turning all the universes resources into an expansion of themselves, with no other goal. Each competing to eat the universe, for the only purpose of being the winner, the survivor, at the end of the universe eating context.

The world/universe will be a much less rich place, if the exploration of reality along seemingly non-practical dimensions dies with us.

I have hopes that curiosity as a practical investment heuristic will maintain the life of idiosyncratic pursuits.

If those pursuits do continue and expand, then super intelligence will truly be an upgrade to our species. Not just a more capable civilization, but more rich as a producer of novel ideas and artifacts.

wkat4242• 12 months ago

Huh this car looks almost the same as my old 80s Corolla did. Except it has a height and length extension.

dwd• 12 months ago

Long haul trucks frequently beat this.

I look after a second-hand truck dealer's website and there are often prime movers with 1m+ kilometers and less than 5 years old.

Fun fact: Heavy machinery sales advertise the exact hours they have been used and not the odometer, so a large dump truck might only be 3 years old but have ~7,000 hours usage.

Car has more than 1.2M km on it – and it's still going strong

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