Johnny.Decimal – A system to organise your life

by debone • 1 year ago

578 291 1 year ago

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dewey_Decimal_Classification

I think having a system is more important than which system it is. I don't see much benefit to limiting your hierarchy to 3 levels. Putting metadata like creation time in filenames is probably the wrong thing to do, since it's redundant, although it's mighty tempting-and I do it all the time.

tsumnia• 1 year ago

I will say that I have a few hierarchies I use regularly that go beyond 3 levels, and they are annoying to work with. There are times where I will copy the entire sub-directory to my desktop just to reduced how many levels I'm working from. Then once I'm done, I'll copy the files back into their little "box" and delete the desktop version.

WillAdams• 1 year ago

That sort of thing really makes me miss the Miller Column Filebrowser on my NeXT Cube (and wish that Apple's implementation were more like to it --- it just doesn't "feel" right to me when I use it on my MacBook).

cloudfudge2• 1 year ago

Allowing the filesystem to track creation time means you have to worry about how you move the data around and whether the tools you're using preserve it properly. A folder named 20250221-nyc-trip is a coarse but very durable way to store that.

ghostly_s• 1 year ago

20250221-nyc-trip is not a creation time, it's an identifier of the subject. they're both dates but they're different things.

zerkten2• 1 year ago

Agree. The benefit of posts like these is that someone has documented their system and iterated on it. You can then steal ideas that work for you.

As a not very organized person, and having struggled with getting personal systems running, guides like this help quite a bit. I've only improved by taking bits that stick for me (https://www.hanselman.com/blog/one-email-rule-have-a-separat...). Anytime I tried a whole system, it failed to get going at all causing me more stress.

egypturnash• 1 year ago

I have found that after multiple migrations from one computer to another, some of my file creation dates are incorrect. I don't use JD but I do have a lot of stuff in yearly folders and some of it's clearly wrong. Like I know that I started one of my graphic novels in 2012 but some of the first few pages have dates in 2014 and 2019. Did a computer migration change the dates? Did some edit I did later on save it as a new file? I don't know. I just know the date's way off.

I agree that the choice to have any system is important.

MetaWhirledPeas2• 1 year ago

Totally agree. Consider the simple act of copying a file. Will it retain the original date or start fresh? There is a correct answer, but maybe it depends on the operating system, or the program you're using to do the copy. But I don't care. "Ain't nobody got time for that." When I want to know the creation date or if I just want a unique name I add a the date as a suffix; 022125. It also helps that it's much easier to see at a glance.

vander_elst• 1 year ago

Previous discussions:

* https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36308366

* https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=37506640

* https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25398027

dang• 1 year ago

Thanks! Macroexpanded:

Johnny Decimal: A System to Organize Projects (2015) - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=37506640 - Sept 2023 (118 comments)

Johnny Decimal - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36308366 - June 2023 (193 comments)

Johnny.Decimal – A System to Organize Projects - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36300472 - June 2023 (1 comment)

Johnny•Decimal - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=33683874 - Nov 2022 (1 comment)

Johnny.Decimal - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25398027 - Dec 2020 (187 comments)

Johnny.Decimal – A system to organise projects - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13770827 - March 2017 (2 comments)

awestley• 1 year ago

I see this pop up every few years. I wish I had the follow though to do this.

RationPhantoms• 1 year ago

Can I ask what benefit it provides? I'm genuinely curious what it could potentially provide.

ashu14612• 1 year ago

I think it is for power users who document a lot, just think of it as a better way to organise your documentation. I think the secret behind good documentation is the effort which will go daily to maintain it vs following a specific system.

If you are putting in daily effort you will automatically find a system which suits your needs.

zerkten2• 1 year ago

It's therapy for a lot of people. The act of organizing helps them deal with information. That act of organizing and storing can help with recall for me but not as much as writing something down on paper does. The number of times people pull info out of these systems is questionable.

An argument people use is that these systems help you later in life. I find these systems really hard to adopt and also find it difficult to work with people who expose these systems outwardly.

emacsen6• 1 year ago

I originally started with Johnny.Decimal for my life and after giving it a big try, switched to PARA.

J.D is fine (maybe even great) if your categories are relatively static, such as a small business, but as an individual, I found it very restrictive and challenging to remember. Moreover, while the decimals are cool, I found them somewhat irrelevant if I was the only one referencing them.

J.D is optimized for retrieval, where what I needed was optimized storage, and then occasional retrial.

To each their own of course, and using any system is better than none.

pendingU• 1 year ago

I'm always impressed by systems like this, but I've personally never understood the point.

I'd be curious to learn from others what the benefits of this kind of archiving are for them? And if the time cost is worth it.

For me, I feel like I treat most of my documents as very temporal things. I need them for a certain period of time, but then after that, they can be list to the ether. I have never really had a need to reference old content, plans, documents, etc.

The only old things I ever need to reference are old code projects and writings. But even that I can usually manage with just a single folder for the project.

Everytime I get a new computer, I just start fresh. Keeping only a very small amount of files backed up in cloud services. Which as I mentioned are just a very small collection of code projects and writings. Am I crazy? Haha.

BoredPositron2• 1 year ago

You will understand when you get into your 50-60s.

ocharles• 1 year ago

Because of the volume of documents, or because of some cognitive change at that age?

esafak• 1 year ago

My parents are way older than that and never worried about such things.

Al-Khwarizmi• 1 year ago

I have a cloud folder where I store pretty much all data I care about, both for work and personal life (with exceptions like photos and videos, for space reasons). It used to be a huge mess and I often had a hard time finding a specific thing. I switched to J.D a few years ago - or rather to a modification of it, it's not strict: I do have a few "out of category" folders that were difficult to neatly categorize, for example - but the principles are there. And now I find it much easier to locate stuff.

In my case, though, looking for specific documents from several years ago is very common. Maybe if you don't have that need and can find things just fine with your current setup, J.D would do nothing for you.

lardissone6• 1 year ago

I tried many organization systems, including Johnny Decimal like PARA. And none of them worked for me. As an ADHD person, I've found the best way for me is not put effort in organizing at all. For that reason I've found tools like Logseq/Tana/Reflect does a great job. I just write in the journal and tag items accordingly if required, then if I need to write some long form document, I create specific pages for it. Then search and backlinks are everything I need. My brain works better searching than browsing.

niteshpant• 1 year ago

As an ADHD person, I've found the best way for me is not put effort in organizing at all

Agreed - I looked at the website for a hot second, got overwhelmed and immediately closed it

Consistency is key for a good organization system. Unfortunately, consistency in such manners of life isnt our forte

doomnuts• 1 year ago

Preach brother

kossTKR• 1 year ago

Exactly. Intricate systems are pure noise for me, a simple MD file opened in a texteditor like Sublime is enough, or as you say just a simple taggable system or really just a bunch of files in folder - as long as you have great search you'll find stuff in no time and forget most as you should.

I personnaly just have a huge file with various notes, text, todos or whatever for each year divided into days, then i can just scroll up through days, or search to find out what i did and what day - some days have nothing, some have lots. Some topics / projects get their own file.

asystole4• 1 year ago

This is why I love Capacities. It's object oriented with properties and tags. No folders.

mohaba• 1 year ago

What is?

airstrike• 1 year ago

We believe that everybody should have access to tools for building knowledge. Therefore, the core product of Capacities is and will remain free. Read our promise

Wow, I'm sold.

lardissone6• 1 year ago

I just tried it, looks good. But TBH, I miss outlining. I would like they offer a way to have an outlining mode (with collapsing ability). Thanks for the recommendation.

lardissone6• 1 year ago

ok, it's been a few days now using it, and I'm starting to love it. Specially their API access, so I can send my voice note transcriptions to my daily note.

The custom object types is great, I missed that feature from Anytype in other tools.

The only drawback is that they didn't implemented an import from other platforms tool. And I have all my history and notes on Logseq now.

bicx• 1 year ago

I don’t have ADHD (that I know of) and still love Logseq. For me, it’s the perfect mix of notetaking, journaling, outlining, task tracking, and lightweight hierarchy/linking.

I find that if I have to organize or categorize entries in a system, entries just don’t get logged at all.

lardissone6• 1 year ago

I'm trying a lot of tools, but I end up using Logseq. It's amazing.

Only bad thing is their mobile app, it's so bad.

a1ff00• 1 year ago

After years of searching for an organizational solution myself, switching between countless applications, numerous applications, and a concoufany of feedback, insights and ideas from xyz influencer, this is exactly the same path i've settled on, despite not being diagnosed with ADHD myself -- though, the signs are all there.

A structure loosely connected to past notes via a weekly 'cleaning/review' process in my "PKS", where I'll /search/ for tags, filenames, file contents and loosely link things together.

It's saved me countless hours, but more importantly its drastically reduced analysis paralysis and kept me focused on the most important thing -- writing.

Invictus0• 1 year ago

concoufany

cacophany?

https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/cacophony

jonaias• 1 year ago

You might want to take a look athttps://www.limitless.ai/#pendant

We've received great feedback from ADHD users about how it has helped them throughout their lives

lardissone6• 1 year ago

I'm still waiting for shipping to my country. Pre-ordered on Oct/23 :(

egglemonsoup• 1 year ago

That's a very compelling pitch. I don't have the budget yet but it's something I'll be keeping my eye on as yall launch and reviews start coming out!

multjoy• 1 year ago

And if I don't want my conversation recorded? How do I know if I am being recorded?

znpy• 1 year ago

most stuff don't work, and don't stand the test of time.

anyway, here is what's has been working for me:

for physical stuff (documents, printouts etc): a dumb file organizer box, one of those where you can hang those hanging manila folders. and of course a few such folders. I bought fifty such folders some years ago, have used about half so far?

for digital stuff: a simple mediawiki installation. it's hosted at home and it's not accessible from the public internet. the visual editor makes it low-friction to edit, the categories system works well enough, a page can belong to more than one category and there's always a search function that works well enough.

the nice thing about mediawiki is that you can upload and embed images, you can link to other systems (like files in nextcloud) and you can upload whole files and link to them from various pages.

bluechair• 1 year ago

I really appreciate what Johnny Decimal is trying to solve - we're all struggling with digital organization and the appeal of a clean, simple system is undeniable.

Having implemented similar approaches across several teams, I can say it works beautifully for personal projects or well-defined small team efforts. But here's the challenge: most real-world information refuses to fit into single categories. A technical spec might be simultaneously system architecture, compliance documentation, etc. While the Johnny Decimal strength is its rigid simplicity, that's also its weakness when facing actual organizational complexity.

Rather than fighting these natural interconnections, I've found more success embracing them - using approaches that allow documents to exist in multiple contexts while maintaining the Johnny Decimal core goal of findability/searcability. The solution to chaos might not be enforcing a decimal hierarchy, but rather building systems that match how information actually flows in modern organizations.

raintrees2• 1 year ago

For me, that is the value of tags. No need to have duplicates to have items represented in multiple categories, yet each appropriate category gets a nod about the particular item.

satiric• 1 year ago

I tried this with my personal Google drive and am not really using the numbers. It's just a little extra work to set up. I don't see much of a benefit to it personally, but if you do then great. The important thing is to have a system you like

SvenL• 1 year ago

It’s pretty amazing that there are such systems. Everytime I try something like this I fail following it just a few weeks later. I just relay on search, I have one mailbox, one download folder and that’s it. If I look for something I have just 2 searchboxes, one in finder and one in outlook.

markus_zhang• 1 year ago

I probably need real-life shelves and boxes for organization. But I think I failed strategically because I brought too many I do not enjoy about into my life. Juggling 6 pieces of shit is not fun however good I'm doing it.

I'll buy those shelves and boxes and just grit my teeth for another 15 years, and then it should be a lot better.

edding45002• 1 year ago

So basically a Zettelkasten?

Tomte• 1 year ago

No. It has practically nothing to do with Zettelkasten. For starters, Johnny Decimal says nothing about links.

edding45002• 1 year ago

Uh, you are right, that was a silly comment I made.

lokimedes• 1 year ago

I love the ADHD meets ASD of this one! As long as it requires self-control, and long-term memory, it is DOA for me.

Oh the curse of knowing what one requires, but always having it out of reach due to misfiring dopamine regulators/receptors.

ashu14612• 1 year ago

I think with any documentation, specially something like life tracker tracker, it is a daily effort to maintain it, clean it, figure out which sections are outdated.

I make sure that with every new article which is added into my documentation, I go through some past pages and organise / clean them up. This also helps in revision of some of the past insights which were collated.

0xdeadbeefbabe• 1 year ago

I've been using this for the past 18 months, and it works really well. I'll write 19.01 on my calendar now instead of "review finances". I don't maintain the index on a regular basis yet, and so far I haven't needed an index.

Yes, I used to think tags were so neat, but I was fooling myself.

shoknawe• 1 year ago

Joplin might be a good vehicle for the implementation of Johnny.Decimal.

drcongo• 1 year ago

Previously: https://hn.algolia.com/?q=johnnydecimal.com

krunck• 1 year ago

Does it support symlinks? Because there is always stuff I want in two different places.

hn_throwaway_99• 1 year ago

Just a general observation as someone nearing 50. I'm honestly very curious to see if someone has had a different experience than me. I'm am, to put it mildly, not an "organized person". I have tried a million different systems throughout my life - GTD, Inbox Zero, spreadsheets, etc. etc.

To be honest, I don't believe that any of these "organization systems" really help people that have problems being organized in the first place. I think it's just a fundamentally different way of how I'm wired. My general conclusion is that trying to "fight" my natural way of doing things is always going to be a losing battle, and that instead I just need to figure out ways to handle my general messiness and get it to work for me. I mean, I can certainly be organized for sizable stretches of time, but whenever I start getting pressed for time, or stressed, or lose my motivation for some other reason, it always reverts to the mean.

I'd honestly be really interested to hear if anyone has ever changed from being a "unorganized person" to an "organized person", because it my few decades of life I've never seen it be successfully accomplished.

ejoso• 1 year ago

Similar age. Similar realization.

ziddoap2• 1 year ago

I agree with your take. I think someone who can/will get organized will do so regardless of which system they use. Someone who can't/won't get organized isn't going to no matter what system is proposed.

The benefits of these organization systems, in my experience, come into play when there are multiple people involved (e.g. a workplace, shared storage, etc.), so that everyone can be organized in the same way rather than having a bunch of competing organization systems created by each person.

chrisweekly• 1 year ago

IME having a personal system can be invaluable. It HAS to be something that resonates for you subjectively and personally -- it could be a system someone else has created (bullet journal, PARA, whatever) but if it's going to work, and stick, has to become "yours" to some degree.

dominicrose• 1 year ago

I'm not organized by default but I can live or work with organized people. It's possible to fit in and participate in the organization.

I tend to let my brain organize my life for me. The end result is that I don't do many different things but I do the things I care about.

However, A 4-colour pen and a small spiral notebook with a grid can help. The paper and colours allows you to be much more creative than just using an ordered sequence of words or some more complex but still limited note taking system.

superxpro12• 1 year ago

Im kind of like you. My answer to this is what I call "breadcrumbs". I leave them everywhere, and rely on fast searching tools.

In onenote, I make sure things have unique keywords I can search for.

I use "Everything" or "Fsearch" to find files on my harddrive. It even indexes my onedrive.

Emails? Git gud with searching boolean queries. From:fred AND body:football

I've similarly tried various organization methods and I cant seem to maintain them. Focusing on easy search has been my way forward.

slightwinder• 1 year ago

They don't need to help everyone, nor solve all problems. Just helping some people to solve some problems is progress. Organization is a spectrum, some parts are more organized, some less. And those systems, tools, whatever, can be a guideline finding your way.

I don't know whether I'm a person with an organized nature (it's probably more on the messy side), but I know that understanding how those tools and systems work, and when, did help me to organize my life a bit better. For me, the main problem is always that I need to have reason for using something and stay with it. Just reading a book and blindly following what it says is not really my thing. But when I find a demand, knowing about those tools and systems did help me to implement solutions for myself which stuck.

It's a bit like not needing all the buttons in a car in the beginning, until it's cold, you want it warm, and you realize that heating might be a good thing for you. You will not know that there is heating in a car, without reading the manual, but if you need it, the knowledge about it will help you find your solution.

robofanatic• 1 year ago

as long as you don't get harshly "punished" or judged for being unorganized by others above you in the food chain then you are fine.

mo_42• 1 year ago

I wouldn't say that I was a very chaotic person but after moving several times it felt like it takes longer to find some special tool than buy it new. So I created a little program to keep track of all my stuff [1]. It took quite a while to put everything in there but it helps me to check for a tool if a friend asks for something. Also, I like to be aware of what I own and what I should give away because I don't need it anymore.

[1] https://github.com/mo42/inven

smeej8• 1 year ago

The one logistical change I made that solved this for me was that whenever I have to look for something, as soon as I find it, it gets moved to wherever the first place I looked for it was. I take that as an indication that my brain's default sorting system thinks it belongs there.

I also have a tendency to go through everything I own once every couple of years and get rid of anything a past version of me thought a future version of me might want to do, but future me does not want to do, though, so the total amount of "stuff" I have is pretty manageable to start out with.

bongoman42• 1 year ago

In a similar boat and I'll add another point. Any new system leads to a temporary increase in focus and productivity. Then it steadily drops off. What this told me is that new systems, as long as they don't have a steep entry ramp are good to get that temporary boost. Just don't expect it to last for months. Also, I found a fair number of high performing people are unorganized, but they often have secretaries and coaches who are themselves organized to get things done for them. But if you are not at a point where you can afford one, you have to learn to get these things yourselves.

skolskoly• 1 year ago

Any new system leads to a temporary increase in focus and productivity.

I used to try to be very organized and adopt different systems to do so. Unfortunately due to the variety of things I do, I ended up creating the XKCD "you now have 14 competing standards" problem. My efforts to impose order only created more chaos. I have since just created a big monolithic txt file for notes, and a directory sorted by date modified. Delete old things, rename new things appropriately, and then use proper search tools like Voidtools Everything. When a project is complete, that's when I start organizing it, because that's when I know what it should look like. I don't understand how people can work with inconsistent and constantly changing structure.

niam2• 1 year ago

The closest I've come is in using an "outliner". I don't have it in me to impose structure on notes.

I like how logseq works, where you don't need to name your files. You just write into the "today" log about whatever. Then if you someday want to create a page on a particular topic, the system combs through your past daylogs for incidences of that phrase and throws a reference to it into the doc for you.

There's no necessary starting structure besides the incidental chronology of when you elect to write. But it's useful to me in the same ways I think structure/organization is meant to afford.

Obsidian works similarly, but its unit of information is a document, vs logseq which uses bullet points. I tend to prefer the latter since even prose is too structured for me when I need to quickly jot things.

smeej8• 1 year ago

Seconding Logseq, though I think the move to database structure is going to ruin it for me. I'm one of those people for whom Notion is counterintuitive to the point of being completely unusable, and all I can suss out about this switch is that it's going to make Logseq more like Notion.

Every time the Johnny.Decimal system resurfaces on HN, though, I'll admit to spending a couple weeks revisiting the task of finally systematizing the decades of old files stored on my hard drive, until I remember that I haven't looked for any of them in many years, never mind opened them, so it's probably not worth any effort after all.

morning-coffee• 1 year ago

Similar age, slightly different experience.

I haven't tried a bunch of different systems, but I admit to liking the principles behind this Johnny.Decimal system and might give it a whirl.

I used to get frustrated that all of the information I'd carted along over the years wasn't "organized". I realized a couple things:

  - I really didn't need most of the stuff I thought I did. So I cull/delete and generally try to minimize what is kept from the start.
  - For the stuff I do want forever, I use "Archive" for mail and a similar concept for files. One folder per year and the entirety of that year's activities dumped there. I'll use search over this when needed.
  - Each year I start somewhat fresh, carrying over current areas still active from the previous year while archiving the rest. I then re-evaluate and try to simplify the current "working index" for the current year and its generally easy to find thing within that narrowed context.

My analogy is that life is an immutable log of records ongoing in chronological order... so a folder for each chronological year. Then index in each year as you see fit... the index/categories/areas for each year don't have to be the same as prior years... they likely won't if life is interesting and changing!

emacsen6• 1 year ago

I'm in my mid-40s and have severe ADHD and I've tried many many techniques and systems over the years. Over the last ~15 years I've come to evolve a set of systems that work for me.

I'm starting (in my "ample free time") to document them and in a series blog posts help people find systems that will work for them. My experience is that the best systems are the ones that have five characteristics:

1. They're simple

No complex patterns, no "we'll solve everything"

2. They require little or no task switching in the middle

This breaks my ADHD concentration.

3. They're forgiving if you fall off the wagon

You will always have bad days and need to restart. The system must make it easy.

4. The system must be very general, maybe even "too simple" but easy to customize.

There is a natural desire, especially in ADHD people, to over complicate, so the system must allow you to be as simple as possible, but then let you customize later.

5. They don't require any specialized tool (especially not an online tool). No system should be invariably tied to a specific piece of software or hardware. These may be excellent augmentations, but they should never be requirements.

Am I an "organized" person? No, but I'm far better organized than I was. Tasks rarely get missed now. I'm far more productive than I was (and I have stats to back up my assertion). I can almost always retrieve documents I need relatively quickly.

These systems won't change who you are, but they will assist you in being better at being who you are.

istjohn2• 1 year ago

I just wrote a sibling comment echoing essentially the same philosophy, although you've elucidated the principles in more detail. As I wrote, my system is basically use a paper filing system (don't overthink it, just alphabetically ordered, labeled manila files), Google Calendar, Google Drive, and Obsidian on my phone for miscellaneous note-taking.

I'm eager to learn more about your systems. Where's your blog?

pjerem• 1 year ago

May I ask your blog URL ? Or add it in your profile :)

Multiplayer• 1 year ago

I implemented Johnny Decimal about 5 years ago in Google Drive. The cool thing about it is it's just always there. It's pretty much set and forget it.

I'll forget about it (because ADHD?) and when I open up drive, there it is! :). And I'll use it.

It's a small investment upfront.

ryanstorm• 1 year ago

Your principles mirror my own, which have been developed and refined over the last ten years (I'm 34 now). There have been periods of overcomplicating things, but they've mostly reached a natural state that works for me.

Maybe interesting is the evolution of my system:

• 2015 and prior: Sticky notes, calendars, notebooks, sheets of paper, chaos

• 2016-2019: I found the bullet journal method and implemented the most basic form found here: https://bulletjournal.com/blogs/faq (collections, future log, monthly log, daily log) and never really evolved from that utilitarian mode.

• 2019-2025: I signed up for Notion and ported my bullet journal system there. I miss the physical version, but prefer the easy access and easy editing in the online version. In addition to Notion, I heavily use Google Calendar, and also Google Keep as a quicker-access and catch-all of smaller notes. I use Notion for life admin and Obsidian for work notes and files.

OP's Johnny.Decimal system caught my attention since I've been interested in a consistent and proven way to organize the files on my laptop, SSDs, Drive, as well as all my physical docs. I could also see it being a nice way to organize my Notion and Obsidian, but I also tend to rely on search and backlinking as others have commented about for their own systems.

disqard2• 1 year ago

They're forgiving if you fall off the wagon

Some (not all) of my personal systems are unforgiving in this regard.

Thank you for pointing out this "Best Practice" explicitly!

TOGoS• 1 year ago

I have similar inner battles.

I think the key is to come up with a system that takes your natural tendencies into account. Result might not be perfect but it will be less of a disaster than if you had no system at all.

Things like 'slow recycle bin' (where you throw stuff that you probably won't need to look at again, but you might) help with this.

e.g.

I have a lot of 6-quart sterilite bins where I keep various tools/components/junk. Most of them contain specific things and are labeled accordingly. There are also some that are labeled "random crap from my pockets". Not ideal to have "random crap" bins but at least I know which ones they are, and the option is open to go through and better-organize them later.

I have periods where I carefully curate my digital photos and archive them using a specific file structure. Sometimes I don't keep up, so as a backup, I dump all the raw photos to a big hard drive and generate manifest files with filenames, sizes, and bitprint hashes that I keep in Git. This part is of course somewhat automated or it would never happen at all.

skydhash• 1 year ago

Did so, but mostly due to increasing responsibility and general laziness. If it's something in my ecosystem (either digital or real life) I'm strongly against spending much energy to finding stuff and redo things. I'm not against messiness, but things should either be highly visible or arranged in a way that minimize thinking. And if something can be automated, I will do so if the manual way is cumbersome enough.

I try not to burden my memory with remembering trivia. So I note them down, bookmark them in some ways that will resurface contextually. Which is why I never took on with a particular method for all aspects in my life, but will gladly use it within a specific context.

hemloc_io• 1 year ago

I had to get organized in college because I was doing a lot of additional coursework and still working. Previously I was completely disorganized in terms of planning.

Honestly the best way to do it isn't even a "system" it's to take the most lightweight level of organization and applying it to things you use.

For me the main organizational tool is just google calendar, using an all day event to denote due dates/trip planning/reminders, but even a daily note with what you're looking to do and important dates could be useful.

All these """systems""" have never caught on for me. It takes a lot of time to understand to the system and adjust instead of building a habit of surfacing information.

Get the system out of the way and just start putting stuff down. I get a ton of stuff done now that I couldn't without organizing things particularly when it comes to planning trips or work.

adastra22• 1 year ago

You may have ADHD. Medication helps. A personal support system (the people in your life) helps more.

istjohn2• 1 year ago

My brother claims to have achieved that transformation with GTD. My personal experience is that complex rigid systems like GTD require high initial investments in effort and can be brittle. They are sort of like doing a total rewrite of a codebase. My biggest wins have come from making small incremental changes.

The biggest win I ever made was getting a small filing cabinet (a banker box works, too) and putting it, a stack of manilla folders, and a marker next to my desk. Then, when I get a piece of mail or have a piece of paper, I file it in the appropriate folder, making a new one if need be. If you have a huge, chaotic pile of papers somewhere, try this. Take that pile and throw it in a box somewhere. Don't try to organize it. You now have a Pile-Of-Papers-In-a-Box. From now on, instead of putting new items on the POPIB, file them in your new proper file system. And if you need to dig something out of the POPIB, when you're done with it, file it away instead of returning it to the POPIB. Soon, the POPIB will shrink to a pile of mostly trash that you can store in a shoebox in the back of a closet.

My biggest loss was trying to digitize my home office with a fancy Fujitsu scanner, Google Drive, and Airtable. It turned out to be a bigger project than I anticipated, and I prematurely abandoned my trusty analog system. Soon, AI will make this trivial, but for the time being, I'm sticking to paper. I also prefer the user experience of physical paper, at least until I can hand over all the paper shuffling to an AI.

Other small gains I've made are using Obsidian on my phone for notes and using Google Calendar religiously for all appointments and scheduled activities.

Filing cabinets, digital calendars, note taking apps--these are all simple, obvious things, but I think being organized is all about acquiring a handful of these small habits and sticking to them. If your system is simple enough to become reflexive, you'll be more likely to stick to it under stress.

ghaff3• 1 year ago

And if you need to dig something out of the POPIB, when you're done with it, file it away instead of returning it to the POPIB. Soon, the POPIB will shrink to a pile of mostly trash that you can store in a shoebox in the back of a closet.

It's also the case that you may legitimately need something out of the POPIB sometime over the next 12 months. Assuming you've been smart about it (I did have an old doc I needed a while ago but I had actually kept it in my fire box because it seemed like something I might need) if something is a few years old, it can probably go in the trash.

The problem with scanning is that there's work involved and if you don't do a decent job with metadata, it's going to be pretty much useless anyway. For a lot of people, file cabinet with folders is probably a good system unless they really are on-the-go or have multiple residences a lot of the time.

ipsento606• 1 year ago

For me, part of the tension stems from being unwilling to design a system crappy enough that I will actually stick to.

To take a trivial example, say your problem is that you leave clothes all over your bedroom floor, so you decide to set up a system to solve that.

The naive approach is to design a system like "If it's too dirty to wear again, put it in the laundry basket, coded by light or dark. If it's clean, decide if it should go on a hanger or in a drawer. If it needs a hanger, hang it up, being careful to select the right kind of hanger for the right kind of clothing. If it needs to go in a drawer..."

That's the system I want to design because that's how I want my life to be.

It would feel very unnatural to design a system like "pile all clothes on the chair in the corner and worry about them later", because I don't want my life to be like that, and I don't want to believe that that's the only kind of system I might have a chance of sticking to.

But that is the only kind of system I'll stick to. And ultimately, it's much better to have all your clothes piled on the chair in the corner rather than strewn all over the bedroom floor.

haliskerbas• 1 year ago

I’m like you and I’ve slowly started to embrace it. Sometimes that means three laundry baskets. One for clean one for dirty and one for wear again. And then iterating on top of that!

cautious-fly• 1 year ago

In terms of organising files over the years I have found that nothing beats good file names and file search.

y33t• 1 year ago

The best system I've come up with is to timestamp all my notes and sort them chronologically in a filing cabinet. You can link to notes by their timestamp, create indexes, calendars, weekly or daily todos etc, as necessary. The idea is that a note can be whatever you want or need it to be in that moment. Just make it addressable. Timestamps also give temporal context to correlate with emails, phone calls, or any other logged activity.

I found that trying to organize my notes one way or another introduced more work and cognitive load than it saved. Just timestamp it and let the rest happen naturally. Wu wei?

It's similar to a zettlekasten I guess, but without the effort.

hodanli• 1 year ago

it is more similar to logseq's journey. you can give it a try.

jrootabega• 1 year ago

There is no voluntary system which can't be sabotaged by your own feelings. Performance anxiety, overthinking, fear of success, etc. And if you let things pile up without processing them, that becomes another snowballing reason to avoid the system. One's thoughts and feelings ABOUT the system seem to have no way to be processed BY the system, so one just avoids all of it. There is also sometimes an expectation that a system will do the hard work for you, instead of just telling you what you should be putting hard work into in a certain time slice.

I am not betting my life that there is no one who is psychologically incapable of working with certain systems without intractable distress. But I doubt it.

marttt• 1 year ago

These two older HN comments might relate to your lines of thinking. I found both of these very insightful when I got stuck with trying out all sorts of rigid systems, outliners, zettelkasten etc:

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=17893139

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=8807252

flessner• 1 year ago

I have been an extraordinarily unorganized university student until the begining of this year - I am still not fully organized, but doing a lot better.

What helped me was looking at the "atomic concepts"

* What do I need to get done? (Tasks)

* When will I work on what? (Calendar)

* How do I keep information around? (Notes)

My "evergreen" information (like lecture notes, book notes) was happily living in Obsidian the past years, so criteria three was already "satisfied". I never found a true "system", so most of my notes are in a Zettelkasten-esque style.

I was stunned to discover that I didn't have a proper solution for "Tasks" or "Calendar". As an immediate fix I simply bought a DIN A6 notebook and a pen. Eventually, I started using the Apple Calendar with a Shortcut that could tally up the time for me - it was insightful. I went from >20 hours of social media a week to nothing (except HN) within a month.

I am still experimenting, currently I am trying to move the "Tasks" into a "daily note" in Obsidian. I have also tried to do some "Journaling", but I found it to not be effective. What I have found to be absolutely necessary though is having a dedicated time in the morning and evening to review everything, plan the day, defer tasks etc.

aeontech• 1 year ago

I'm curious about the shortcut to tally up the time - how does that work? Could you share it somewhere?

scrapcode• 1 year ago

Same. A very simplified version of bullet journaling does quite a bit for me to track tasks. I basically just use three bullets ( - for information, * for an item requiring action, and > to indicate i need to keep moving that task forward).

tikhonj2• 1 year ago

I am pretty ADD. For me, moving to a system using org-mode helped a lot. It didn't make me an "organized" person (hah!), but it has repeatedly kept me from losing track of important things and has given me a place to take tasks/reminders/notes/etc off my mind. Being able to write something down and trust that it will surface back when I need it has reduced my mental load and general anxiety.

I haven't been super organized or consistent in how I use org-mode—org-mode is great at letting me discover my own workflow and adapt the tool to what I need rather than adapting myself to the tool—and I've gone through periods where I lost the habit, but, overall, it's been a concrete improvement to my life. I've found that seeing it as a tool rather than a "system" made a big difference for me. I've never liked productivity systems (especially at work), but having a tool I can use in whatever ways helps me is a qualitatively different—and better!—thing.

puffybuf• 1 year ago

I love org-mode with emacs. I use it to organize my notes / game hacks / todo / pretty much anything using a tree structure. You can use drawers to hide things like sample code.

arnonejoe• 1 year ago

Same. My file system gets "cleaned up" every two years when I buy a new macbook.

wink• 1 year ago

I challenge the "organized person" thing already.

I'm very organized in some areas and make the biggest mess in others.

Also what does "unorganized" even mean? I usually don't forget work TODOs but I regularly forget non-work TODOs. One has me have a text file open on the same computer, and in the other area stuff comes up left and right, and if I have my phone to jot it down it doesn't mean I will look at my phone on time...

pillefitz2• 1 year ago

I just use MS ToDo synced across all devices with GTD. My "Waiting For" bucket currently contains around 20 items, most of them with reminders to follow up on the status. No way I would keep on top of it without a structured system.

tonymet2• 1 year ago

the process of trying to organize is helpful, even if the organization system itself fails. I think people resent organizing because they expect magic to happen once they try. but like exercise, learning, playing music, cooking -- it's the practice of the habit that develops results . Everything great takes repetition

monroewalker• 1 year ago

The best approach I’ve found so far is to just have a single master “event log” where I dump everything that I want to save by default. I have specific places to put things but if I can’t be bothered to decide where or am not sure it’ll just go to the event log. I’m using Notion for this where each entry is its own page in a “database” list. Adding a new page is trivial though through the site or app. I have an iOS shortcut setup too to open the entry creation

GarnetFloride• 1 year ago

I love exploring different organizational systems.

Getting Things Done is good for project management but falls down for organizing.

Marie Kondo is good at organizing and deciding if something is worth keeping or not, but has issues with scale.

Covey/Daytimer was good for time management but didn't do project management all that well.

Jamie Hynaman has a massive wall of transparent boxes for organizing materials for his shop but all the hammers are in one box and you have to go to that box to get the hammer whenever you need one.

Adam Savage's system puts his most needed tools right around each workstation but it's expensive as he had multiple copies of many tools.

Kitchens use mise en place to prep and organize the ingredients for cooking so they can 100-200 plates out to table a day.

There's PARA, and Zettlekasten for organizing information.

There are, all told, tens of thousands of rules for writers.

In the end I see them all as tools for solving problems and not all of them work for all problems and that's okay, if I can find a tool to make solving a problem I am currently working on easier, that's wonderful or I make something myself.

ghaff3• 1 year ago

Adam Savage's system puts his most needed tools right around each workstation but it's expensive as he had multiple copies of many tools.

It's a tradeoff. For travel, I obviously don't have multiple passports or high-value items. But it's absolutely worth having some extra cords and toiletries so I have dedicated travel kits for those sorts of items. Not perfect or absolute but being able to more or less grab a couple kits and throw them in my luggage works for a lot of purposes.

ghaff3• 1 year ago

I found GTD had a few basic concepts I try--sometimes even successfully--to follow. But I've basically never been an "organizational system" person.

hnthrowaway0315• 1 year ago

I agree. I tried a few times but they never stick. I admit that my life would receive a positive buff if I stick to one of the systems, but I just don't have the heart.

a-saleh• 1 year ago

There is some level of organization you have to achieve to be at least somewhat successful.

I think these sort of more complex systems are there to help you if your problem is being overwhelmed, or if you have need to have things classified and under control.

If your problem is the baseline fact that sticking to any sort of system is hard ... haha, same, and then you need a system that is simple.

I currently live by my google-calendar. Alerts in advance, trying to put everything there, to a point I https://sectograph.com/ as my watchface on my smartwatch, just so that I won't forget what I need to do today.

Also, writing out my daily todo-list in a ~private-ish channel I have on friend's discord suprisingly works better just having a todolist. Because my friends see that and that makes my brain actually care :)

So, yeah, "just need to figure out ways to handle my general messiness and get it to work" is right on the money.

It is like with that Bullet Journal thing. You see the elaborate ones from people that love their melticulous templates. But when I used it for a month or so successfully, it was just about the simple bulet-points, sometimes with dates, review once a day. I stopped because I lost the notebook, so ... oversharing on discord it is - I probably am procrastinating there anyway :D

anktor• 1 year ago

Recently I have been thinking about this, because I feel I have managed to become way more organized than I ever thought it was possible.

What is working for me right now is noting everything in a calendar so I cannot forget it or as TODO in a somewhat heavy personalized Obsidian configuration.

A few years ago (5-6 aprox) I started copying my older co-workers habits to see myself improve. Physical notebooks were soon discarded because I never remember where I wrote down things.

I used a TODO plugin in sublime which worked for several months, until I felt I needed screenshots so I moved to OneNote. After a while I became frustrated with not being able to customize it enough, so I started trying out different things. I saw a coworker using Obsidian, watched a couple long YouTube videos to learn how to customize, and I'm never going back.

My team this week told me they are impressed with how much info I write down and it was a very proud moment for me!

ra• 1 year ago

I'm the same - just turned 50.

The lightbulb moment for me was when I found out my HBDI [1] profile - my thinking preferences are heavily skewed toward analytical and experimental, and away from practical / relational.

My management team compliment me by being a) orgasnised and b) relationship focused.

[1] https://www.thinkherrmann.com/hbdi

kisonecat• 1 year ago

I wouldn't say I'm organized, but org-mode is the only tool I've ever really used to keep track of what I am doing. I've been using org-mode for >= 15 years.

eawgewag• 1 year ago

I'm a big fan of the Jibun Techo system of planners. I have a yearly planner that I get a new one every year that handles all of my every day things. I move the "LIFE" book around to each new year which holds things that matter on a yearly/longer than yearly basis.

This system is beautifully not tied to any software or thing that I have to manage. It's helped me ensure that my basic yearly needs are always handled

kenada• 1 year ago

I’m in my mid-40s. I’ve been practicing GTD for about a decade. My system used to be fairly elaborate in the beginning, but now it’s fairly simple. However, I don’t view it as an organizational system. It’s a tool for me to be confident that I’m doing the right thing right now.

For organizing reference material, I have a drawer with files for physical things and cloud storage and notes for digital things. I label it by topic as it seems appropriate/obvious. I review my reference material annually, deleting or destroying anything that’s not still needed.

In practice, I don’t actually engage with my system much. I review it weekly to clear out any next actions I did. It’s there as a backstop (i.e., I use deadlines as appropriate in OmniFocus) and to help keep me aware of my hard and soft landscapes.

(I lost my weekly review habit for a while, and that was bad for me and my system. I’m glad I’ve reestablished it.)

If (for example) I decide to hack on nixpkgs stuff tonight, I don’t need a task for that. I may capture one to resume later, but what’s important is that I know what I’m not doing, and I’m fine with that. If it turns out I’m not, then that’s a sign I need to renegotiate or delegate some of those things.

tomcam• 1 year ago

I’m well past 60 and seem to have something approximating bad ADHD. I became financially very successful by being fairly obsessed with one thing at a time: software and services companies, real estate, etc. For many years, this meant leaving extra things like guitar practice to the middle of the night. My goal since before marriage was to balance my primary jobs out with family time, which also means caring for handicapped family members. I succeeded. I have never been able to balance work, life, and health altogether, unfortunately. So I’m diabetic and overweight.

I too tried many forms of organization and always ended up abandoning them. What has worked with me was being very focused on the main project and using all kinds of gross little ad hoc ways to keep it going.

There is a second version of me for day each day’s tasks and requirements. That person was revolutionized by phones that understand voice input. I use the one from Apple but I think it’s utterly horrible. However, it is still good enough for me to use about 15 alarms per day that say things like “set an alarm to Get the boys’ laundry at 4 PM“. I have daily alarms to remind me to do things like feed the chickens, and monthly alarms to do things like pay bills or change batteries. I have an annual calendar entry with a master list of things I need to do every month or year.

So the long-term project me is pretty good at planning things in my head and a couple of lists in the source code or source code repos. The short term is completely interrupt-driven.

I am not recommending this system for everyone, or anyone at all. All I can say is that it works well for me, even though it is aesthetically brutal.

plagiarist• 1 year ago

Setting constant reminders is a good life hack. Sometimes I wonder if I might be better at life with a haptic tap on the wrist every ten minutes, like just a nudge to think if I am doing what I want to do.

bamboozled• 1 year ago

Similar situation, my cure is to do less and slow down. For example after a day on the slopes I make a habit of just putting all my stuff away carefully. To do this I need more time (do less) and slow things down.

xivzgrev2• 1 year ago

Thanks for sharing.

When you said, “ I mean, I can certainly be organized for sizable stretches of time, but whenever I start getting pressed for time, or stressed, or lose my motivation for some other reason, it always reverts to the mean.”, I wanted to share my experience.

I’d consider myself a somewhat organized person. But I only stick with a particular system for a few months at most.

I find what’s most helpful to me is to keep writing down top of mind stuff and focus on getting it done. Sometimes that’s in a text doc, sometimes it’s in a bullet list, sometimes in a spreadsheet. Just whatever feels right in the moment.

Also I have a wide gap between my professional life and personal life. I almost never miss commitments at work. In personal I’m always intending to do stuff and not getting it done. More competing priorities / less urgency.

SoftTalker2• 1 year ago

I'm roughly the same. Here's what I do.

I go to Staples and buy some bankers boxes. These are cardboard boxes that come in a flat pack and you fold the flaps in and make a box. It's sized to hold file folders, but I don't use file folders.

I write the year on the side and top of the box. Every imporant piece of paper, paid bill, receipt, credit card and bank statements, anything I want to hang on to goes into the box. That's it. No other organization. On January 1, I start a new box, and I put the old box on a shelf.

If I need something (which is much more rare than you might expect) I go through the box and find it. It's in roughly chronological order and generally doesn't take more than a few minutes.

After 5 years the oldest box goes in the shredder.

OK there are a few exceptions. Stuff I need to save longer than that (car titles, etc.) goes in a fireproof document safe. But all the common stuff goes in the box.

wingerlang• 1 year ago

Similar here, documents goes into the documents drawer. Digital documents has been going into /Dropbox/docs/$current_year (without much organization within them). New year, new folder.

atoav• 1 year ago

I am an unorganized person who has a job that requires a certain amount of organization to allow me to stay on top of what I am doing and gives me very little time to do said organization.

The following things work for me:

1. Whenever you leave a project you leave with it all the info to quickly get started again. If it is physical that can be a paper note, if it is digital thats a readme note (or a note directly in the thing). This is not just for documentation, it means the shelved project requires zero mental capacity as everything I need to remember is shelved as well.

2. Lists for ephemeral todos. There are so many ways of organizing to do lists, the only thing that worked for me over long and intense periods was a little notebook where every Monday of a week I write down what needs to be done in principle. This typically just contains urgent things and the occasional lkng term project.

3. Digital Calendar: everything that is an appointment or some preparation for an appointment goes in here. Appointments do not land in the todos unless they are majorly crucial ones.

4. Travel stuff: most of the travel info will be in the calendar as well, for notes/tickets I add them either in the calendar or in my obsidian notes

5.Knowledgebase: everything that has long form relevance is either in my password manager (surprisingly good for storing info like your tax ID) or into the obsidian notebook

That is roughly it.

albert_e• 1 year ago

I am in same camp.

I recently read the book Meditations for Mortals by Oliver Burkeman.

Resonates a lot with my experience and struggle with trying to stay productive.

I may not have learnt any new skills from this book but at least feel a tad bit more at peace with things as they as and as they unfold.

h4ny• 1 year ago

Just personal experience, read with a grain of salt.

I don't consider myself an organised person (my calendar is chaotic, I don't clean out my inbox and use it as a pseudo to-do list with priorities, I don't have enough time and energy and constantly feel like I'm being a shit friend/family/mentor, etc.) but everyone I have worked with see me as a very organised person: I document every piece of my work in detail that others can understand, I have good estimates on tasks I'm assigned and very rarely miss deadline, I remember when important events are without needing a calendar and am always on time.

The thing is, GTD doesn't work for me. I have also worked with many mangers who tried to shove the framework du jour onto everyone and never had any success with it despite putting in a lot of effort into "meeting expectations".

The cynical me now thinks that people who tells everyone certain system work is because:

1. Someone published a popular book that managed to sell well from the business section.

2. It just happened to work for some people. Even 2 out of 10 people you meet talk about it is enough to make you think about it, now imagine 6 out of 10 managers you meet knows about that system.

3. Most managers I have met (whose jobs are to get others to get things done) don't really have time to understand you, that includes most of them who say they care about my career (they didn't, they cared about their own careers more than mine). If there is something existing they can manage you with they'll use it because when it doesn't work it's either your problem or the framework's problem, not theirs.

4. (Cynical opinion) It's mostly just a facade for people who have authority over you (especially the ones who are technically less capable but somehow moved up) to show their bosses they are doing _something_. Like the new lead designer who decided to change the company brand color or the new head of department who thinks that changing the department's name is going to invigorate everyone's passion to do better work.

One thing that I have learned from the people who are smart and productive is that they have actually spent time to continuously develop and refine a system that works for them over time. They also try new things and just move on if it doesn't.

You probably have met a lot of amazing people if you have mostly been working with others so far. Just think about what the people you truly admire professionally do -- I'd bet that they don't talk about GTD and even if they do it's just an introduction to something remotely similar to what they do and have refined over time.

I know it can be difficult at work sometimes when (whether you know at that moment or not) people are offloading their responsibilities and pressure onto you (it's particularly bad if you are a very responsible person). However, if you believe that you usually have a reasonable amount of time to get things done, just ask yourself if you have done your job well and and delivered things on time. If you have, then the problem probably isn't you or GTD or some other framework that doesn't work for you.

jvidalv• 1 year ago

A few weeks ago, during a one-on-one with my manager, I had an interesting realization about this topic.

I understood that my chaotic nature isn’t due to a lack of organization—it’s because I thrive in chaos. I can function well without strict structure because I don’t need it to stay effective.

My manager, on the other hand, is the complete opposite. She needs everything documented and noted, not because she’s inherently more organized, but because the absence of structure creates anxiety and discomfort for her.

She actually complimented me on my ability to navigate uncertainty, to adapt without needing full control, and still feel capable and at ease.

It felt like an epiphany, shifting the way I perceive this entire topic.

dddw• 1 year ago

Interesting I am in the same situation. There are are little fires around me I just have to make sure they dont grow bigger. May I ask what role you fullfill? I`m sysops/cloud engineer.

paufernandez• 1 year ago

You hit a very important point, the discomfort that orderly people experience (I am that kind of person). I believe that to be innate.

At the same time, a disorganized person is still more effective in an organized environment, but probably he hasn't realized this by himself because he doesn't have the internal drive to be organized in the first place.

You could say being organized is Nature's way of setting us up for success in complex and very demanding situations.

jmorenoamor• 1 year ago

I am on the same boat, passed 40 and after trying everything, I peaked with Obsidian. Just MD files and a lightweight notes IDE

farley13• 1 year ago

You have many great replies about specific methods - but I found the most important tip wasn't where I was looking. Tools, software, books, methods all can come later. The most important part for me was creating the time for cleanup and organization. Physically and mentally.

Jumping from thing to thing without time set aside for "stop, reflect, adjust" makes it very challenging to make changes. I realized that you don't become organized if you don't spend time on it. Picking up physical messes. Thinking about what was important in your day vs what you got done. How the week went. Writing it down.

I found it was only after I started consistently putting time aside to catchup, think and adjust that I started being able to consider if any particular methods would be helpful. Parts of GTD have helped me (capture first) - but the aha moment really came before that.

If you want to be organized, put time into reflecting and adjusting (eg. organizing) the critical parts of your life. Once a day, every day. Maybe more than once a day. Then use one of those to reflect on the week. Not reading about it or endlessly sorting the books on your shelf, but focusing intently on stuff you'll remember 20 years from now.

fmbb• 1 year ago

The problem everyone are trying to solve is ”I have too much to do”.

All these solutions are band-aids akin to sticking a queue in your backend to try and cope with constant overload.

The simplest way to get organized I think is to say ”no” more often, and stop caring about crap.

GTD has one good idea, and that is that first step ”can you do it in under five minutes, do it now” or however it’s written. The rest is procrastination.

jerieljan• 1 year ago

After seeing this and the stories after this comment, I... can relate to this.

I went from being unorganized to somewhat organized, then went back and now it's a case of "I'll keep things organized when it makes sense, but the rest is up to my memory, the natural way of doing things and wherever I left it."

I'm just going to try the next thing, see and adopt whatever works, but if it doesn't, I'll just stick to whatever does.

At the end of the day, it's up to our brains on whether to use systems or not and if they fit our needs or if it doesn't.

ccppurcell• 1 year ago

I think you're right and I have a few systems I've implemented that work with me not against me. For example I organise my kitchen drawers by putting things in higher drawers if I use them a lot and lower if I don't. If I "mess up" it doesn't matter: things I use more will naturally rise to the top. Similarly spices, I return the spices to the cupboard at the front of the shelf and a natural ordering by usage develops over time.

In software terms the closest is that I switched to kiss launcher on my phone. It just shows you the apps in the order you used them, plus one horizontal line of faves and one vertical line of widgets. It can also learn what you do but I prefer the basic ordering. I use zoxide in the terminal for navigation and on the desktop I just press Super and search for everything.

jliptzin• 1 year ago

I'm the same way. I just send myself emails when I need to save or keep track of something. I throw in some keywords that I'll know I'll search for in the future if/when I need to reference back. This works 95%+ of the time. For physical documents I need to save, I'll just keep it in a stack and periodically throw them in my scanner and save them in one PDF file and put it in a google drive folder for searching (using AI or otherwise) later. Most of these documents I never need again anyway, but at least they're there.

I know the organization people are probably horrified by all this, but I know myself well enough by now to know that I just won't stick to any system more complicated than this. The most important thing is that all that stuff is there, somewhere, if I really need it. I am essentially saving the effort up-front that I will 100% have to do in exchange for a little more effort later down the line which I probably won't have to do because I usually never need any of that stuff anyway.

exe34• 1 year ago

I gave up. find and grep work really well together, so that's what I use now. I try to add keywords to filenames of important files so I have a chance of finding them again. I do the search incrementally, e.g. find ./ | grep -i insurance. then if there's a load of stuff, I'll try to narrow it down with further greps or with -v.

andai• 1 year ago

can handle GTD occasionally but reverts to chaos

Same. So I ended up "inventing" what I call miniGTD.

My system got so big and unwieldy, that I threw it away, and just wrote down the most important stuff from memory.

Then I realized that I can just do that every morning. Fill half a page with the most relevant goals and their associated Next Actions. And that's the whole system.

Here's a screenshot: https://files.catbox.moe/jq0u8z.png

It certainly doesn't meet David Allen's criterion of 100%-ing it. But it gives you 80% of the bang for under 20% of the buck!

Rewriting from memory works as a natural filter for priority and urgency. Stuff might slip through the cracks, so when I'm done writing, I just turn to the previous day's page to see if I forgot anything.

---

Also, you might want to read Leo Babauta's Zen to Done (ZTD), which fixes most of the issues I've had with GTD. I ended up reinventing most of ZTD on my own, and then smacked myself when I finally read the book, because I had downloaded it 15 years earlier and failed to read it ...

...Also also worth mentioning Scott Young's Weekly/Daily Goals (ZTD has this too) and Cal Newport's system (based entirely around the calendar). They would make David Allen cringe, but they work really well for a lot of people!

react_nodejs• 1 year ago

So are you selling several file explorer folders for $15? ;D

diimdeep• 1 year ago

no, he is selling lifestyle

MetaWhirledPeas2• 1 year ago

As a system, this makes sense and I love it. As a personal practice it's completely impractical for all but a narrow band of the population. And when those people need to collaborate with others, good luck getting everyone else to follow the system.

I recommend embracing the chaos instead. Enhance the tools for finding information, and make it easy to apply metadata.

At a certain point you can get no further without demanding more personal discipline, but that point is way beyond what is prescribed here.

pavlov• 1 year ago

A cousin of Johnny Mnemonic?

galfarragem• 1 year ago

My take on "systems to organise your life". It may help somebody: https://github.com/slowernews/hamster-system

bpev• 1 year ago

My filesystem organization has been based off of Johnny decimal for some years now. TBH, I don't know how much I specifically recommend it, since it did take quite a long time (years) for me to really figure out my organization and become comfortable. But now, because my system is now pretty set in my brain, the big benefit is that I can pretty much navigate to mostly any directory instantly from anywhere without too much thought, using scripts I wrote. (https://johnny.bpev.me/guide, which is really mainly https://github.com/bpevs/johnny_decimal/blob/main/source/she...). But it makes my filesystem feel much flatter and simpler to me.

For example...

- My latest large coding project spans from `22.00` - `22.20` (clients from `.01`, server from `.11`, libs from `.21`), and I can navigate to any of those directories from anywhere in my filesystem via `jd 22.10`. Or if I forget which one, `jd ls 22`.

- For things like photos and completed music production projects, I organize in more of a date system, but that entire system is housed in the jd structure, so if I want to look at some photos, I can easily open `31.02` and navigate internally to that.

Oh fwiw, I only use a few broad categories:

- `10-19 Notes`

- `20-29 Projects` (active projects, code and music mostly)

- `30-39 Archives` (closed projects)

hbarka• 1 year ago

In 2025 someone discovered the ancient Dewey Decimal system.

NetOpWibby3• 1 year ago

This has existed before 2025

f1shy3• 1 year ago

It was sarcasm to make a point , in case you did not notice.

kstrauser• 1 year ago

More like, someone realized a few years ago that you can make your own Dewey Decimal system and apply it to your own library.

erganemic• 1 year ago

Off the top of my head, all PKMs make trade-offs on discoverability, portability, maintainability, and ease of recall. Broadly, "discoverability" is how likely you are to stumble on something you'd forgotten (just recently, I found a file in my "taxes" directory listing all the documents I needed last year, which was a big help, and which I did not remember writing), "portability" is how resistant the system is to a company shutting down/project being abandoned, "maintainability" is how easy to keep your system consistent with its principles (including inserting a new note), and "ease of recall" is how easy it is to find something if you know you're looking for it.

When thinking about a lifelong PKM, I feel like I value portability more than most; something highly tied to a particular company like Notion is right out for me, and I'm leery of stuff like Obsidian or even org-roam, since even if the entries in those systems are just text, I just know that someday the logic that ties them together will stop being developed/maintained and I'll have to migrate.

I feel confident in directory structures and text files as long-term mediums though, and so JD is appealing to me, but its maintainability (specifically the cognitive load around inserting a new note) is such a stumbling block for actually creating content for it. Not to mention the primary thing it trades maintainability off for (ease of recall) is almost entirely solved by search functionality, leaving discoverability as the only benefit over just chucking everything in a flat "notes" directory.

I do something PARA-adjacent now, and I might just commit to that, although denote is interesting as an Emacs user for a slightly more portable tagging- and search-based option.

disqard2• 1 year ago

You and I are in the same boat!

I keep everything in a single folder, as plaintext Markdown files.

Even if my own software breaks someday, I can always ingest these into a flavor-of-the-month indexer (though I think sqlite + fts plugin goes a long way) and carry on.

ornornor• 1 year ago

I use paperless-ngx with about 10 document types. Most documents don’t have a type. I scan everything we get in paper form (mail, prescriptions, anything) with a document scanner and dump it all in there. For email pdf I forward it to an account that ingests the documents.

It has a classifier so after a while it picks up the date, correspondant (if you set it), document type automatically.

Daily backups to rsync.net and the export function is a dump of all the files + metadata in json format.

The search (via OCR) is pretty good and it’s the easiest system to manage I’ve found. I used mayanedms before but it’s too cumbersome and upgrading major versions was very complicated.

SebastianKra• 1 year ago

trade-offs on discoverability, portability, maintainability, and ease of recall

Good insight. Thx.

I feel fairly confident in Obsidian as a portable system, since its basic concept (markdown docs with tags and links between) can be found in many other apps [^1].

I'm currently using Bear, but I've made experiments migrating to Obsidian without issues.

[^1]: Bear Notes, IA Writer, Ulysses, Craft (kinda), NotePlan, ...

jppope• 1 year ago

I think this is definitely a cool system so not meaning to knock it, but I used to hyper-optimize all parts of my life and it was exhausting. So one day I just stopped. I started focusing on just being present, prioritizing, and trying to remember things that were important. I still take notes and have todo lists and stuff but they are similarly for being in the moment- just for the time right when I'm using them. I may have lost some things over the years but the removing the stress has made me better at all the things I was working on in general.

robertritz• 1 year ago

This exactly. Losing a few things pales in comparison to less mental overhead in every single task I do.

All I do now is keep a notebook with a rolling to do list where I make a new page every day and write what I have to do. Meeting notes also go there if they don't belong in some project files.

The only thing I wish I could do is keep notes from books somehow in an easily referenceable format. Kindle sucks, Obsidian is 180 from TikTok but still brain rot.

Beestie2• 1 year ago

Its a beautiful system but where my head explodes (and has been exploding for 4 decades) is over the following scenario.

So in Johnny's system, I assign 21 to automobiles. My VW van gets 21.1, my Citron is 21.2, etc. and the insurance for each car gets a .8 so 21.1.8, 21.2.8, etc.

And I assign 13 to Money. Insurance belongs under money so 13.5 is insurance and life insurance gets 13.5.1, E&O insurance gets 13.5.2, etc.

I also need a top folder for Medical for doc visits, vaxes, ER visits, Surgeries, the kids' allergies and stuff.

So where all this is going is two months later, where is the health insurance policy? Is it under medical or under money? Is the car insurance under Automobiles or Insurance under Money?

Back to my head exploding - this is my issue - I can never remember which branch of the tree to find a specific leaf? Does my annual car tax belong with the Money or with the Auto branch? If I want to see the tax for all the cars at the same time, I put it under Money - Taxes - Auto but when I need to know the last time I paid the tax on the VW, I will assume its filed under Auto-VW-Car Tax.

This is why I can never find anything. All due respect to Johnny but I'm too retarded to use it properly.

xixixao• 1 year ago

What you need is a tree where the items can be in multiple places.

Bear does this really well with its hierarchical tags.

Most filesystems can do this with hardlinks (but the UX mostly sucks).

Beestie2• 1 year ago

omigosh - genius idea - I need a Schrödinger's file system! WooHoo! The dumb insurance policy is wherever I look for it! :-)

beAbU• 1 year ago

I had exactly this issue before, an I blame overthinking things. Trying to put in place a system where none is needed.

I ended up with a box, in the box there are large plastic envelopes, and each envelope is labelled.

I have:

- "assets" (cars, warrantees, service records, purchase invoices etc)

- "health" (all medical related things)

- "insurance" (everything insurance related)

- "guns" (I like guns... so licenses, legal paperwork, etc etc)

The best thing is, this is a box. So worst case, even if I misfiled something, all I need to do is rifle through a box. The box is portable and universal, and if my wife needs something, I can easily guide her to where to find it.

arbitrandomuser• 1 year ago

This! i prefer tags over folders for this reason. All notes go into single folder , no sub directories . Because a note can have multiple classifications a tree structure is not natural way to organize them. Add tags , if you have note taking program will show you all possible existing tags you it makes this easier.

lblume• 1 year ago

Additionally, tags naturally form hierarchies in the form of trees (or ADGs), so any possible taxonomy should support that.

benrutter• 1 year ago

I love tags until I actually use them, I always wind up using them inconsistently, or not at all for a specific file, and them bam, I can't find anything at all.

The benefit of file structures is that things have to have a place, you can't not put something in a folder, so for car insurance, it might be in "insurance" or "cars" but it's definitely one or the other. With tags, it could be "insurance", "finance", "cars", "automobiles", "vehicles", "veihcles", etc.

Any tips of how to funnel some strictness into tags so that they're actually usable?

mindwork• 1 year ago

symlinks or hardlinks might help with that, depending on your needs. With hardlinks you will see the same file in both locations, and if you change or remove the file it will be removed in the other directory as well

mdaniel3• 1 year ago

or remove the file it will be removed in the other directory as well

Your operating system must behave way different from mine. Hardlinks in both Linux and macOS are merely "named inodes" and only when all references to the inode are removed is the storage actually subject to reuse

gloomyday• 1 year ago

I've had this problem for a long time. My solution was to keep my organization as flat as possible. This means everything insurance-related would go to 13.

A flat structure seems less organized, since you are “mixing” stuff, but as long as there isn't too much stuff inside, going through stuff one-by-one is faster than you think. If I do have a lot of stuff in a section, I either split into several sections in the top structure (so 13 is life insurance, 14 is other...), or go one level deeper (not preferred, but I do it when it's very clear and there is too much stuff, like photos, which btw sorting chronologically works best for me).

It is really not much of an issue having 50 top sections. It makes the organization transparent, and indexing, sorting and going one-by-one remains easy.

dubeye2• 1 year ago

it's only going to be one of a few places though, and the key thing is you know where those places are and can get to them quickly

jen729w• 1 year ago

Johnny here. This is the canonical example, and I quote it myself: is it `Insurance > Car` or `Car > Insurance`?

In reality you just decide. One feels better to your brain. And you tend to remember that.

It helps of course if you remain consistent. In the systems we design we’ve realised that most people want the insurance close to the thing being insured.

So in our life admin system we have health, pet, home, motor, and travel insurance as IDs alongside your records for those things. Seems to suit most people.

And don’t forget you’ve got your index as a fallback. I don’t remember most of these numbers but I just launched Bear, typed `insurance` in the search field, and there they are. Now in three clicks I can get to my home insurance which, turns out, is at `12.12`.

https://share.icloud.com/photos/0afQRa-furBCpa9rOIc3r3Q7g

tener• 1 year ago

And you tend to remember that.

Haha, nope. Different brains work differently. One day I genuinely prefer one, a week later another.

Vegenoid2• 1 year ago

This is why I like Obsidian (or some other linked-documents wiki type of system), because it makes linking things easy, so you can take multiple routes to find a thing. I have a health note and a finances note. Which one does health insurance go under? I pick whichever one seems to make the most sense at the time. Then, in the future, if I'm looking for health insurance and look in the wrong place first, I can easily make a link there to the "health insurance" note/section. Now, I will find health insurance whether I look under health or finances.

The "Obsidian way" that many people recommend is notes that are as small as possible to maximize this kind of effect, but that's not how I like to do it. I prefer bigger notes with lots of headings (that can be nested up to 6 levels), and lots of links within a note and between notes to specific headings. I find this to be a nice blend of hierarchical navigation and link navigation.

Non-text files (like receipts or pictures) get linked from the relevant note or section, and many types of media can be viewed inline in the WYSIWYG editor.

fivestones• 1 year ago

How do you link non text files? Is it like a link to the file on your computer directly? And if so, do you the. Loose the ability to see those files when you are not on your computer but instead using the mobile app? Or is there a way to include those non-text files in the notes syncing apparatus?

threecheese• 1 year ago

You’ve hit the nail on its head here. Almost every piece of information I save has more than one type of contextual relevance, this is not handled by any hierarchical organization system no matter how clever the addressing is. At a certain scale and complexity, I simply cannot remember the magic incantation URL for whatever it is I need. Even search falls apart frequently, because I saved some reference using an abbreviation or synonym to what I think I need.

It doesnt take so much “scale” if one has deficient short term memory/recall/adhd or is (as youve elegantly put it) “too retarded”. (hey - samesies)

Tags/content classifiers/ontologies are I think the solution here, but require continuously grooming your data to ensure it’s classified correctly - a time investment.

My opinion is that modern ML classifiers are helping,l - Ive found some help with tools that recently added auto-tagging - and I think the real magic bullet will be augmenting this capability with relevant personal/activity context. An algorithm can infer much of the contextual relevances that are missing from the current tools if it can match some incoming information to any or all of the areas/topics/projects/horizons/decimal-things that users of organizational tools have decided are important to them.

xivzgrev2• 1 year ago

Yea I don’t often remember which folder I stuck something in.

As a result I’m a heavy search user. I find 90% of the time I can quickly find what I’m looking for with a few keywords.

For the OP, health insurance policy, I’d type “health insurance policy” into my google drive. Then it pops up, wherever it was.

This of course means you name things with something that makes sense to you. Don’t leave it with whatever name when you downloaded it by default.

This also is a huge help with links. I need to find the latest xyz ticket (which I previously viewed) and I’ll type in xyz… and boom, there it is. This is why I don’t clear my browser history very often!

vvillena2• 1 year ago

In today's world, it would be under Ctrl+F -> "insurance". If it were on physical paper, it would be on the folder containing the important documents.

Over-reliance on hierarchy has been identified as a double edged sword of these organizational systems. Hierarchy is only useful when the hierarchy itself matters, e.g. when "grab all documents about this" is a use case, keeping such documents together matters. If the use case is finding one particular document, we have better tools than hierarchy for that, and any time spent on organization is more or less wasted when a good file name and simple storage rules do the work better, and are irrelevant for modern retrieval methods.

koenneker• 1 year ago

I recently learned that you can also access the mac spotlight search index from your terminal using mdfind[1]. It's very nice to use when looking for misplaced pdfs.

[1]https://ss64.com/mac/mdfind.html

mdaniel3• 1 year ago

Hierarchy is where taxonomy fights break out; tagging is the way, the truth, and the light. That's one of the many, many reasons I love 1Password over Bitwarden. I don't need folders I need tags. Same for Firefox's infinitely better bookmarking system than Chrome's, for the same reason

mjklin• 1 year ago

That’s where a tool like TheBrain.com can come in, in which one node can have multiple parents and siblings.

zwayhowder• 1 year ago

I have been toying with the idea of introducing something like JD to my system using tags though so something can be both.

I use Paperless to catalog all my PDFs, Obsidian for notes and Gmail for email, Todoist for tasks and Cloze for CRM, all of which support tags.

catlifeonmars• 1 year ago

I haven’t used this yet, but I imagine that it’s easier to look in two places than a dozen places. So maybe it doesn’t matter if it’s perfect. Pick one of the two possibly correct categories at random and you’ve still reduced your search space. I’ll probably give that a shot and report back ;)

blippage• 1 year ago

I have set up a Zettelkasten, which alternates between letters and numbers.21a5 is for my Alcatel 3085 mobile. So it's a similar idea, I think.

Classification is a vexing problem I've tried to grapple with.

The Dewey Decimal system is a really good example of people trying to get a handle on it. It's not easy. "Arduino Cookbook" is in the Electronics section (621.3810285536 to be precise, although the decimal system doesn't usually get that crazy in its specificity), whilst "Getting Started with Arduino" is in 005.133, more that half a library apart.

As one commentator put it, a book is rarely about one thing. People have criticized the Dewey system, so they throw the baby out with the bathwater and declare their bright shiny new wheel to be the solution.

Except, of course , they skip over the same fundamental problem that Dewey had: books don't really fit into a taxonomy.

One solution which may work for small personal systems is to not bother to use a hierarchy. Put car insurance in one folder, then file all folders alphabetically.

Getting more sophisticated, if you have a hierarchical system, consider indexing. I found an old address book that I had lying around. Add entries into that. Sure, entries won't be in strict alphabetical order, but hopefully you won't have a system so big that you can't find anything.

Indexing is "the" solution, because you don't have to try to figure out where in the taxonomy something is. You just look it up. Indexing also allows you to construct different "views" of a subject, thereby allowing you bypass taxonomic choices.

Being a computer geek, you could keep an index file on computer. You can then simply grep it.

MollyRealized• 1 year ago

I was surprised to learn what an awful person Melvil Dewey was.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Melvil_Dewey#Controversies

lylejantzi3rd• 1 year ago

What I don't understand is: why use numbers?

Using your example, you could describe the insurance for your Citron as 21.2.8. Or, you could call it automobiles.citron.insurance. Which looks a lot like automobiles/citron/insurance. How is this any different from just using a folder structure?

unfixed• 1 year ago

I guess the key difference is the amount of branches that you can make at any given level.

Calling a folder citron instead of 2, gives room to have N amount of folders at that level instead of just 10, which I think is the constrain that made this system manageable.

methods21• 1 year ago

Yes - This.

Centigonal• 1 year ago

I tried this for a year, but the juice wasn't worth the squeeze for me. I went back to my previous homegrown folder tree.

ConanRus• 1 year ago

What we really need is a personal AI assistant that handles labeling, tagging, and organizing documents by creating categories and connections. The fact that, in 2025, someone would propose doing all of this manually and consider it a good system is just ridiculous.

NetOpWibby3• 1 year ago

I've been attempting to integrate this into my life for a few years now, and failing. Doing this manually is never going to work, HOWEVER, automating it will. I periodically run this script[1] to organize my Downloads folder.

Pretty sure I can figure out a way to make macOS watch that folder and run the script but I want to live with this more before doing that.

Note that all this does is move stuff around...you still gotta go to the destination folders and continue organizing there but at least half the work is done for you.

---

[1] https://gist.github.com/NetOpWibby/7e39068c1d0209e4412e3a05e...

sureIy• 1 year ago

I realized that I'm very good at remembering time and location more than anything. If I want to look at something, I know when I did it more than what it contained.

For this purpose the photos app is amazing: "April 2020 cat video" and it's exactly what I was looking for.

I really wish file explorers were more consistent with their date management and didn't change "creation date" just because the file was moved or whenever the app/OS decides.

NetOpWibby3• 1 year ago

I wish someone made an OS that just did this for me

nicebyte• 1 year ago

I bet 90% of the reason this is on the front page is the Berkeley mono font. the system itself sucks.

f1shy3• 1 year ago

The first time it was posted I said: I hate the system, but I like the presentation.

The system is great if you like to remember the IPs of the sites you need instead of the urls…

camkego• 1 year ago

If this is a system to organize files and folders, rather than physical real life files and folders, it should say so in the first sentence.

tonymet2• 1 year ago

the concept is very good, and i like the approach to distinguish personal , business etc. It's not the system that matters, but the continued practice of inventorying and assessing your library.

One approach is to imagine your archives as a physical library and what regular maintenance you would need to keep the library in order for others to enjoy it.

These include indexing like the author talked about. but also curating & summarization ( meta-summaries of the catalog). Also disaster preparation (backup) , replication (e.g. keeping repositories in sync between the archive and active work).

Every well built engineering system started as a neglected concept that got elevated into a formal area worthy of attention

dubeye2• 1 year ago

I set this up a few weeks ago and it's working great so far. You start to develop muscle memory and now i organise everything to the same order, eg bookmarks

i think it's partly that i remember location phsyically. i can remember bookmarks in real books, my remembering where certain words are on a page and flicking through until i find them. i wouldn't stand a chanec ofremembering page number. somehow the JD system recreates thsi for me

g8oz• 1 year ago

It doesn't have to be all or nothing for the Johnny decimal system. Start with a life area like home ownership. Ask AI to generate a Johnny decimal system on this topic. I was impressed with the comprehensive structure I got.

subpixel• 1 year ago

Holy smokes this does not resonate with me. Not the need for organization, but the implementation of some watered down Dewey decimal system.

f1shy3• 1 year ago

Seems to be good for people who prefer to remember the IPs instead of domain names…

MailleQuiMaille• 1 year ago

I think the key for me, a lifelong messy person, was to find out what I like or don't.

Like : -Taking notes on the fly for capturing fleeting ideas. -When working on a project, embracing the mess by having as many documents/spreadsheets as possible. -When a project is over, putting everything in a folder and letting it there.

Don't like : -Using fancy tools like Notion, Obsidian and the likes. -Getting stuck on rigid systems, and even worse : tied to a subscription. -Being forced to use a specific device.

My solution ? Upnote. Proton Drive. A messy desktop.

Am I the most "optimized" I could be ? No. But I can quickly find out everything I need fast, and when I'm working on a project, I know what to do.

More than that seems overkill, for me at least.

mattlondon2• 1 year ago

This seems overly complex? 15.2.234 for example is not remotely memorable or intuitive - no one knows what that is.

Why limit yourself to this low-signal approach? It seems deliberately obtuse for no obvious benefits?

What has worked for me is a folder per financial year, then just rough semantic groupings in each year folder called e.g. "cars" "health" "house" "tax" etc and just chuck files into those as needed. I usually change the filename to be something descriptive and information dense too like e.g. "<house number + street> Home Insurance Aug 2024-2025.pdf" etc. Store it all on some cloud service (OneDrive or Google Docs or whatever - local backup of your choice) and then you can just drill-down or even better just search. Simples.

So e.g.

2024-2025/

--house/

----123 ABC Street Home Insurance April 2024-2025.pdf

----123 ABC Street Mortgage statement Jan 2024.pdf

--cars/

----Honda repair invoice June 2024.pdf

----Honda insurance Feb 2024-2025.pdf

----BMW insurance Mar 2024-2025

Not rocket science. Anyone reading this understands this "system", and it is trivial to search. No rote memorisation of random numbers needed!

0x4573• 1 year ago

Well, you only need to remember "00.00 Index" which is where description of all categories is.

Your version IMO is awful. Year on root level means you have to remember year that document was created. Unless you constantly need to lookup insurance documents (only thing besides taxes I can remember which year I'm looking for) that's not going to work IMO.

Since we threw away core organization principle of this system (limit your choices), why not all documents realted to house1/car1/car2 into corresponding folders?

Also, you used 2 different ways to write a month and date. Now I have to remeber is this document on Jan or January, don't want to confuse with documents about my friend Jan and Jane either.

mattlondon2• 1 year ago

Well time is the only constant in life, so it makes sense to me to store by time since that is always moving forwards and things happen at a point in time.

But it is a valid that you have to remember the year, but this is why if you store on a cloud service, they all come with excellent search facilities that I expect will continue to improve with AI. So you don't need to remember, you just search for e.g. "insurance" and then you pick the doc with the date in it's filename etc.

Sure you could group by theme at the top level too, but again time is a constant - you always have 2024, 2025, 2026 etc, but you don't always have a need to store things about e.g. "car2" in every year etc. so it makes sense to me that if car2 comes into your life in say 2025 and leaves you in 2028 or whatever, that you have car2 folders in those specific years only and not permanently polluting the top-level folders because after car2 leaves you, you don't want it hanging around ~forever at the top level. You're just building up "organisation-debt" for something you'll need to "archive" in the future.

I think perhaps we're thinking about different things though. I store documents about day to day life - statements, invoices, insurance certificates, etc etc. These all tend to be dated and repeat monthly/quarterly/annually or thereabouts, and for me the most frequent retrieval need is for the current financial year.

I don't store my friend Jane's or Jan's documents, not do I have documents about them either. I don't just have random notes documents about random things.

At work where I have non-time-based documents (including random notes documents!) coming out of my ears - both written by me, reviewed by me, read by me, CC'd but I read etc - thousands and thousands etc - I just rely entirely on search and it's never been a problem. No filing system at all - just search. It's fine.

Cloud-based storage and search really is key here I think. I can be on calls to utility companies etc and I can search and have my most recent statement up on my screen quicker than the people in the call center folks most of the time.

reedlaw• 1 year ago

I used something similar based on https://karl-voit.at/folder-hierarchy/ which I found helpful.

marcusestes• 1 year ago

[IQ distribution chart meme]

* Just use Apple Notes

* No! You can't just use Apple Notes. You need a full ontological graph structure based on an open standard!

* Just use Apple Notes

0x4573• 1 year ago

This one actually works with Apple Notes.

hdrz• 1 year ago

This. Just use the most immediate thing available. For me its: * Apple Notes * Apple Reminders That’s it. Gets the job done.

nilslindemann• 1 year ago

Looks like a task oriented sorting - "for what do I need this?" - and the numbers are a workaround for a shortcoming in file managers, which does not allow giving a user defined sorting to a list of files/folders.

raajg• 1 year ago

I think that local search, retrieval, and filing will become much easier with LLMs.

There are already tools and products in the market that allow you to rename and organize files. I believe this is the future.

We have developed various systems over decades, but I anticipate with LLMs it'll be so easy to file and retrieve things that we won't even have to think about it.

ediwdlrow• 1 year ago

"If you put those boxes in boxes, in boxes, you'd never know which box to open to find the next box. It would be chaos."

Not really...

If my outermost box says "Tools", a box in that box says "Automotive", and the box in that box says "Trim Removal".

There's no chaos, I drill down from the generic to the specific and find what I need.

Using Tags (keywords, etc) you can cross reference things too -- for example Tools that may have uses in both the Automotive, Household, Computer realms get those as keywords, and ideally the tool will have a primary role so it can exist in that box, or otherwise if it truly doesn't belong in any one box then it can just be in the Tools box along w/ the boxes that contain all the task-specific stuff...

groby_b• 1 year ago

For anybody going to implement it: Good luck, enjoy the journey and learning from it.

At the end of the road, there will be a sign. It will say "hierarchical taxonomies never work". You will likely ignore it. (We all do). Ab initio.

urda• 1 year ago

I'm still working a lot of my internal tribal knowledge out around this, but as I work that blog post out my general flow of organizing information in my life has been as follows:

- Starts with a physical Moleskine notebook and fountain pen. This is the most free flowing and easiest way to get information saved. It is literally pen to paper, it does not crash, it does not fail.

- From there ideas and notes are migrated, shaped, and restructured in digital ink and text on a Freeform board on my iPad, Mac, and Apple Vision.

- Finally, as those ideas become more real and solid, they are formed into well understood wiki pages and saved there. From that point all new and changing information is committed to the wiki.

Not all my information needs to flow into the wiki, but it is nice to have a knowledge "funnel" when keeping notes. When I think about information and notes, I always think about my favorite quote:

“For this you keep a lab notebook. Everything gets written down, formally, so that you know at all times where you are, where you’ve been, where you’re going and where you want to get. In scientific work and electronics technology this is necessary because otherwise the problems get so complex you get lost in them and confused and forget what you know and what you don’t know and have to give up.”
Robert M. Pirsig, Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance

whalesalad• 1 year ago

The aesthetic of this website immediately tells me that this person has no qualifications to tell me how to organize my life.

mattfrommars• 1 year ago

Another system to organize my life? I JUST got started with BulletJournal :)

Tbh, a person with ADHD and in my mid 30s, the biggest problem I have faced and none of these system [haven't tried Johnny.Decimal] yet is 'given my current situation, be it career and life, what should I prioritize' and the second hard part if keep track/progress.

I do miss school/university days where we had a curriculum to follow with deadline and all. That brought structure and with fixed milestone. But in personal life, with unknowns everywhere, it is challenging. I have tried multiple strategies but they don't seem to work or eventually are forgotten. From two minute rule to this, I can't remember the exact details but something like invest x hours and if it doesn't work out, move on.

dmje• 1 year ago

Been using JD for ~5 years or so. It’s great. Sufficient structure to make sense of chaos, not too much to create more

davikr• 1 year ago

This is so obtuse - why does "15.22 Checklists" start at ID 22 instead of 11?

projektfu• 1 year ago

It took me about 2 hours to organize a disorganized syncthing folder for my business into this system as I understood it. Now to see if it helps. I am diagnosed with ADHD.

For what it is worth, some tools actively work against the use of folders on Windows now, including Office. Acrobat is another offender. (Not using Windows is not currently possible, too many assume Windows use in my industry). Even Google Drive hides the folders and makes you go through hoops to get to them each time. Reading the comments here, putting everything in one directory and relying on search seems to be the most popular filing system. In my space, I feel like everything gets lost as a result of that "system", and work is constantly duplicated because people don't know where to look.

This system, at least, doesn't require much to keep organized. The ontology is shallow and it doesn't require me to constantly worry about where something should go best.

fonema• 1 year ago

On Windows for many years now I've been putting things anywhere and then relying on a program called "Everything" to find stuff. I'm very happy with this set up. It allows extremely quick file system searches. I've tried to work with neatly organized folders at times but I would always get lost in them and things end up in the wrong place anyway.

Terretta3• 1 year ago

Hey, anyone who can't/won't/doesn't stick with a system... THIS IS FOR YOU.

Most organization methods predate search.

PARA, for example, can be a decent first cut (active Projects, Areas of responsibility, Reference(research/reading/recreation/really anything), Archive, and you could use that with the below, but don't need to thanks to search.*

The real reason we're still trying systems instead of search is we don't remember what to look for, and hope we'll find it where we should have filed it. Turns out we don't always file it there... Usually we don't file it at all.

So: whether you use PARA at the top or not, within that...

DON'T ORGANIZE!

Don't even try.

Instead, "journal" or "log" by simply saving all files to your desktop, then using a tool such as Hazel for Mac (or a python script, or whatever) "log sort" by renaming files once you haven't modified them for a while (I like once untouched for 7 days) into folders and filename like "./YYYY/WW/YYYY-MM-DD - Original Title.ext". Pay attention to WW, that means Week Number. Month folders get too many files in them, day folders are too sparse. Life and ideas tend to cluster by the week, so week folders are a natural fit, with only 50 of them in a year, so you can see them all in one window.

Why this works is you can find anything that goes with anything you worked on at the time by searching for anything you can remember from the time. Heck, you don't even have to remember anything, just, roughly when. The things from then will be adjacent.

When you find anything at all from then, what you want will be in that week's folder, or at most go back a couple weeks before or after, and you see what you created or modified around then. Boost your odds by stuffing some other keywords into (parens) in the end of the filename when you first save it, there's no downside.

If you can't even find by week, use YYYY-MM* and file type to see everything for a given month...

Auto log sort is low (zero) effort day over day, week over week, but when you start being able to resurface anything you want, even if you can't remember it only things around the same time as it, you may be amazed you ever bothered any other way.

---

* Note: If you collab with others, try to organize everyone by responsibilty areas managed by known owners of those responsibilities, then let them organize in their area, and just deal with figuring out whose thing this is and let them file it if it's not evident where it should go in their scheme. But still rename files by date last changed, since most file systems don't keep dates intact when, say, emailing files, etc., and it's still helpful to see what was being modified along with what. Because of the temporal order, the "sorts" tend to cluster things better than alphabetic sort.

Appsmith3• 1 year ago

While search works in most cases, sometimes some sort of organization comes in handy because recognition is easier than recall.

That said, I do like PARA so built this centered around it, with a few GTD and ZK additions:

https://thoughtscape.app/

Terretta3• 1 year ago

Clean UI!

vvillena2• 1 year ago

The one key takeaway from PARA, Johnny Decimal, and such other systems, is that nowadays the system itself doesn't matter much, but replicating the same system across all document and information hubs is still a net advantage.

thallukrish• 1 year ago

The problem with organizing is not the lack of tools or techniques. It is simply not possible to devise a system which works automatically with little effort. Everything requires varying levels of discipline which is hard to keep up with time and a different situation.

Terretta3• 1 year ago

It is simply not possible to devise a system which works automatically with little effort.

I use one.

See https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43135927 in this thread.

Truly ZERO effort, yet a backup way to find things without search.

Appsmith3• 1 year ago

I kind of agree with you! But still wanted to take a shot at it:

https://thoughtscape.app/

noisy_boy• 1 year ago

an area is a shelf, a category is a box, and an ID is a manila folder.

I mean isn't that almost the 101 of organization? I have N big clear plastic bags for each member of my family - each has smaller bags for educational certificates, birth certificates and other legal documents. All of these are in a shelf together. I can immediately produce any of those.

I have been thinking of another low-effort system for other lesser important documents that can be annoying to find. Put a box in each room and dump any lesser important papers in it, just dump it - whoever stays in that room dumps their such papers in it. Periodically clean as needed. Main rule is to not dump such papers _anywhere_ else.

linhns• 1 year ago

I tried this. Simply does not work for me. In the end more time will be spent looking for the box

asasidh• 1 year ago

search, don't sort

kovek• 1 year ago

I like to have a category (folder, list, document, etc.) per entity that I am interacting with. That entity can be a government, a company, a person, an object, or other.

What do you think?

kras143• 1 year ago

The more I tried to control and organize my life, the more stressed I became. Digitizing and organizing my knowledge base, in particular, wasted countless precious hours. Recently, I decided to let go of that rigid structure and instead focus on naturally prioritizing the most important tasks for the day, week, and month. So far, this approach has been working well, or at least it feels like it is.

kkoncevicius• 1 year ago

I had the same experience with using a paper notebook. There are various systems and tips about how and what to write in a notebook to become more productive. But the best way for me was just to use it as a sheet of paper and write about what feels necessary at the moment with no structure whatever.

stevage• 1 year ago

This seems to solve a problem I don't have, in a way that seems particularly irritating.

In their example of travel as a category, I just have a folder called adventures, and underneath it, one folder per year.

Is anyone really storing that many folders these days?

krykp• 1 year ago

I think this gets the 'imposed limits' part right.

What I've found is that I am unable to be organized or keep things organized if I have too much stuff. It doesn't matter if I organize by 'category' then 'thing' or 'thing' then 'category' or if I keep myself to 2 levels of nesting or 3.

I have been decluttering every now and then, say, I will dedicate a weekend once every 6 months. I have started by getting rid of what is _obviously_ not necessary.

By necessity I'm not talking in a materialistic sense, I find joy in the tiny statues I own and a physical photo album, even if they are not _vital_ for my life.

I started by getting rid of things that are useful but just wasn't up to par anymore. Like old clothes. I would wear old clothes inside the home and justify their existence, but I have come to value myself enough to wear my nicer clothes, which are honestly still just relatively cheap shirts, inside the home too.

After that, it was getting rid of things that are working, in good condition, but I had no use for anymore. For example I had built a computer, this meant ending up with a stock cooler, stock fans, stock thermal paste, my old PSU that was still very much working, all that. I wouldn't throw these away as they had no issues, but wasn't of use to me anymore. For these donating was easiest for me, as I would feel bad about getting rid of tons of in-working-situation hardware.

I must note, all this requires certain privileges in life. Just getting rid of things you don't use but might, by some low chance, need, requires you to be wealthy enough to replace that without worrying about the price tag.

I have also come to find out gender also matters. My clothes fit in a single-side wardrobe, and no one pays enough attention to my clothes to realize I'm cycling through 10 t-shirts and 5 shirts. Or if they did, that's plenty anyway. For women there's a certain social expectation and imposed necessity and a deeper sense of fashion. For a man a dress-shirt functions well in the workplace just as it functions in a job interview and it functions just as well in a wedding. For a women what they can wear to a wedding and what they can wear to work are very different, so there is a natural difference of expectation and necessity. But I digress.

SoftTalker2• 1 year ago

I feel like if you are disciplined and organized enough to use a system like this, you probably don't need it.

PeterStuer• 1 year ago

After having tried to be organised for decades, I gave in to my inner holistic self and gave up on (most) explicit organization and just became very good at searching/finding things.

I could theorize about how no taxonomy deals with multiple contexts or remains valid over time, how filing errors will always happen so you will need search anyway, how unstructured scales to seamless incorporate outside sources etc., but thruth be told big piles of unorganised stuff with keen finding skills more naturally allign with my nature. Ymmv, and that's just fine.

meander_water• 1 year ago

This is a neat system, but like many others here I doubt I could be disciplined enough to maintain it.

Organising a second brain appears to be something that people have been grappling with for ages. For e.g. here's John Locke's system for organising his commonplace book - https://fs.blog/john-locke-common-place-book/

ySteeK• 1 year ago

I was on a search for the 'perfect' system all my life.

And I found it after 40 years : The No-System System... and it's the exactly opposite of op's suggestion :-)

All together in somewhat chaotic folders and subfolders... the clou is that I use "recoll" everytime i search something. It's an Index based search engine. Take a look...

I never missed something since I use just recoll and throw things just anywhere in the huge black box.

The main pro: it costs me no time to "sort" things into things.

mock-possum• 1 year ago

You assign a unique ID to everything in your life.

Ah - that’s fun, but no. Using codes to organize stuff like that is unnecessary complication. Just label them robustly, and search for what you want, when you want it.

In real life, if you stored your stuff in piles of badly-labelled boxes you'd never find anything again.

Okay but this isn’t real life, this is a computer. The robot’s entire job is to process data automatically in a way that would be tedious for you to accomplish manually.

Forcing a user to remember an indexing system that matches concepts describable in plain English to esoteric numeral codes is just - why, why are you doing this to yourself. It’s not better.

ss64• 1 year ago

Using numerical prefixes like the 'Johnny Decimal' system for folder organization is fine for personal files, if that floats your boat, but trying to implement it in a shared team area can be a recipe for strife. At best people will think you are slightly mad expecting them to memorise lists of numbers just to file things.

binbag• 1 year ago

I must be missing something. This is recommending folders are numbered. Is that it? Is this a "system" now? I think that may have been used previously - for example by humanity for the last 5,000 years or so.

dack• 1 year ago

Man, I completely recoiled when reading this.

I spent a bunch of time in my 20s and early 30s trying out different organizational systems but I realized I just don't care. I care about doing interesting things, not organizing them.

Also computers are pretty good at full-text searching for things, or tagging so you don't have to come up with a perfect hierarchy. And I think LLMs will make it even easier to find stuff using fuzzy language.

Life's too short to spend it organizing.

keepamovin• 1 year ago

I love the website design: the IBM code page 437 block characters and text styles are fantastic.

41d• 1 year ago

I think it's an interesting observation, and I understand that there are pros and cons to this. I like organized designs, grid styles, neatly arranged bookshelves, things that fit together perfectly, and clean environments, and I was always thinking about how to keep folders neat and avoid a state where I get tired of looking at them every time. And it's true that there are many people who don't particularly mind that. Is it similar to the location of a remote control, which looks messy but is perfectly placed for that person?

Anyway, I really like it, and the introduction is very easy to understand. I also like the design of the WEB site.

And your WEB tool is very useful for making the hierarchy easy to see at a glance (because it's very difficult to build it suddenly and edit it later).

hasbot• 1 year ago

Maybe the root problem is keeping too much stuff? IRL, I have one bank box that has a folder for everything I truly need (e.g. dog papers, vehicle repair records, tax documents, deeds, and um... that's about it really). In my digital life, I just don't keep much stuff. Songs, audiobooks, ebooks, tax returns, and that's about it.

fleshmonad• 1 year ago

organise your file hierarchy in a common sense manner and add numbers
write way too long blog post in """hacker aesthetic"""
It gets to the HN front page

Apart from that, the spaces in all filenames are questionable. I truly don't understand how something like this gets 450 points on HN

spmcl• 1 year ago

I use Johnny.Decimal in my Obsidian vault, but its purpose is less about being able to find things in the future and more like "this is a simple well-trodden system so you may as well use it for some semblance of organization of your folder hierarchy." But I only label the folders. I don't label files with numerical values – folders are just dumping grounds for a certain type of notes. Like I have a folder for journal entries, unique notes, blog posts, book notes, recipes, and individual side-projects. A few tags (most auto-generated in templates) help me search past notes if I need to, but that's a very infrequent need.

My point is that switching just the folder hierarchy to Johnny.Decimal was very easy and I don't have to think about how I organize my work ever. Contrast that with some of the other PKM organization schemes you'll find (such as using Johnny.Decimal in its entirety), and you'll see that they both take a ton of time to set up and a ton of effort to maintain. Those are massive wastes of time. There are far more meaningful things you could be doing outside of marginal gains to productivity, if you can even call PKM optimization a "marginal gain."

sotix• 1 year ago

It reminds me of accounting systems. Asset accounts are 1000. Liability accounts are 2000. Stockholders' Equity are 3000. Revenue are 4000. Expenses are 5000. Then the second digit differentiates which specific category of account it is. The final two digits are the sub accounts of that broader category.

fortran77• 1 year ago

I scan and ocr everything. It’s filed by year, with a subfolder for month. I narrow down the year range and search. I have files for decades arranged this way.

pkilgore• 1 year ago

It's beautiful things like this exist for people and they are happy with them, but I cannot think of anything more stressful to me!

Flat system of tags + Search + Fuzzy Find + Scanner + OCR + Giant Pile has been the route to happiness for me.

My brain just isn't wired for hierarchy at all.

CompoundEyes• 1 year ago

This reminds me of IBM Rational DOORS requirements documentation software’s approach https://m.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=263&v=Reff4ELfwrM

edgarvaldes2• 1 year ago

Is there any solution that works inside Google Docs? The lack of a native tree view in GD is a big stopper for me.

seguri• 1 year ago

Works great for me. I've also written a plugin for Power Toys Run that allows me to quickly open a folder, e.g. 53.10. Blog post here: https://blog.seguri.dev/posts/powertoys-run-johnnydecimal/

agnishom• 1 year ago

I don't get it. How do I figure out what the top level 10, 20, 30, etc should correspond to? And if I do figure out what they should correspond to, why can't I just use a more informative title for my folder instead of a number?

igbanam• 1 year ago

Curious, how relevant is something like this in today's world?

I was fascinated by this when I first saw it years ago. But in today's world, where fuzzy-finding, and A.I. working off embedded vector databases is a thing, how relevant is this system — if the content being organized is electronic stuff on a computer. I get that this may work as a physical organization system.

er4hn• 1 year ago

Never before have I read up on OIDs, SNMP, and then thought: Ah, I can apply this to the real world.

If it works it works, but this is very funny to me.

whatever1• 1 year ago

I need none of these. I just need a search engine for my files that is not completely dumb.

aucisson_masque• 1 year ago

this looks interesting but just as i experienced when i stared taking notes, you can't just classify stuffs in folders, subfolders, sub sub folders and so on because there are case where one thing might fit 2 or more folders in very distinct categories.

the author speak about travel insurance in one of his graphic, would you put it in the folder travel -> subfolder insurance but not in the folder Insurance ? it fits both case.

what happens in 2 years when you look for these contract, you arent going to remember if you put it in the travel folder or insurance folder.

multiply that by the many... many files that fits multiple case.

what a waste of time and energy.

ab071c41• 1 year ago

I was looking for an organization system and came across Johnny.Decimal. I actually applied that methodology to organize my bookmarks and that's been pretty good. It does help that my browser shows all the folders and everything fits into something specific there.

For my files/folders though, it was a little much. I borrowed the concept of 10 subfolders though, and that became my new folder organization structure without the leading numbers.

High level folders are very broad - Entertainment, Financial, Food, Life, etc. Under there, they get specific quickly. Food > Cooking > Stews is for stew recipes, Food > Cocktails are for cocktail recipes, and so on.

Life > Housing > $address is for all the docs related to my current place. Life > Work > $company is for anything related to my current employer. Financial > Taxes > TY2024 is for 2024 tax docs, etc.

I found the numerical indexing to be overkill since each folder has, at most, 10 subfolders. Alphabetical sorting is much better for that - at least for me.

tonijn• 1 year ago

A well setup Obsidian vault with some added plugins is another great way to organize your life

casey2• 1 year ago

Something I've always disliked about "Dewey" and now "Johnny" decimal is that they intentionally put a human name on the system. I'm not sure who it helps, confusing a system for a human, but it certainly isn't the user.

Also this doesn't work faster than search, I would be open to evidence to the contrary, but obviously none will be provided cause it's simply false. By the time search becomes slow no single human will need to access or read all those files anyways.

The only exception to this is when a few categories have many files, in which case you can just make directories for them.

Johnny.Decimal – A system to organise your life

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