The quiet art of attention

https://billwear.github.io/art-of-attention.html

by billwear • 2 years ago

875 264 2 years ago

billwear.github.io

andsoitis• 2 years ago

"As we grow in this practice of attention, something else becomes clear: much of what occupies our thoughts is unnecessary. The mind is cluttered, filled with concerns that seem urgent but, on closer inspection, do little to serve our deeper well-being. Simplification is not just a matter of decluttering our physical surroundings—it is a way of thinking, of living. As we quiet the noise within, we see more clearly what truly matters. We focus, not on everything, but on the essentials. We pare down, not by force, but by choice."

Our information-technology driven culture does not help; the algorithms and shiny objects they push undermine our attention-ability.

abound2• 2 years ago

This may be the culture, but one can largely choose to not participate in it. E.g. not having social media accounts and curating your news sources with a focus on unsensational, fact-based reporting.

billwear7• 2 years ago

yes.

rfonseca• 2 years ago

"curating your news sources with a focus on unsensational, fact-based reporting" -> curious how you do this!

8n4vidtmkvmk• 2 years ago

This is why I don't wear a smart watch. My phone is always on silent. Sometimes i Ieave it in a different room. There's nothing good on here. 99% of notifications are just trying to sell me something or bad news. Go do something you enjoy and put down the devices, the notifications will still be there in the morning. That is to say, dedicate a block of time for that stuff if you must, but otherwise tune out the Internet.

dirtyhippiefree2• 2 years ago

The “attention economy,” defined.

It’s why sensory isolation is valuable.

Shut out the world and hear what’s being drowned out by the mad scramble to control our attention…

hall0ween• 2 years ago

I like the message of the article overall. And I am skeptical when “liberation” and “freedom” are used when not clearly defined because where I am from (US) these words are thrown around flippantly. If I follow this approach of quietness and attention, will I be free from hunger (ie have food)? Free from fear (eg security from violence)? No, clearly not. There are other freedoms.

Also, a left out item that we have direct access to sense, manipulation, cultivation: our bodies.

billwear7• 2 years ago

good points. the first could have been a better choice, or a better explanation. the second? that's a much longer piece about the three brains and how we integrate them.

joseferben2• 2 years ago

my read on it is that it’s liberation and freedom in a very buddhist sense.

you won’t be free from hunger, but it may reframe our relationship with food so there is less compulsion and mindless consumption.

it won’t take away fear in the face of imminent danger (that’s a good thing, we have to survive) but it may reduce background anxiety that’s present in our daily lives.

keybored17• 2 years ago

If I am free from a shackle, does that mean that I am free from hunger? Clearly not. Hmph, then why say that I am “free” from a shackle.

anonyfox• 2 years ago

the concept of freedom itself kind of is hard even in a stricter context like politics.

like, I cannot freely choose to do X today, because (iE: capitalism environment) demands me to do certain other things that bring in money to live comfortably. I could make a tradeoff somewhere, but that very tradeoff itself limits actual freedom.

therefore to maximize actual freedom, we're looking at eliminating constraints that limit freedom, like the need to make money somehow, which would be a dramatic society change not everyone agrees to.

its hard. and wonky. so everyone uses it only through a personal belief lense.

mzajc• 2 years ago

Well written! I can relate to most of the article. However, I find that

To focus on one thing deeply, to give it your full attention, is to experience it fully. And when we do this, something remarkable happens. Time, which so often feels like it is slipping through our fingers, begins to slow.

doesn't really apply to me, or to many people I know and have worked with - it is when I focus on one task that "time flies", and it's distractions that end up throwing men out of the zone.

billwear7• 2 years ago

agree that the "clock of life" is a strange beast, when compared to the clock on the wall. i try to quit paying too much attention to the latter, and time becomes more nuanced and textured.

gchamonlive• 2 years ago

Yeah, it's more like time taking a backseat than slowing down.

smith7018• 2 years ago

What you're describing is a state of flow which is good for things like work but the article seems to be talking about time metaphorically.

For example, imagine you're going to your daughter's piano recital and spend the whole time thinking about work. You would be missing out on the experience of watching her perform and grow. If you become mindful of these habits and say "My mind is focusing on something that I cannot change right now, I should be present" then you'll be able to fully experience a moment in your child's life. So rather than feeling like life is passing you by, you're able to experience it in the moment. The surrounding sentences of the line you quoted don't read like the author's describing time like you are:

"But in this process, we must remember something important: life is not meant to be rushed through. It is not a race, nor is it a problem to be solved. It is an experience to be lived, and living well requires presence. ... Moments become rich, textured. Even the simplest of tasks takes on a new significance when approached with care, with attention."

kukkeliskuu7• 2 years ago

In my experience it is not metaphorical, but an actual effect on how you experience time.

djtango3• 2 years ago

Maybe you're both right? Staying on the example of recitals. When I concentrate hard listening to the music they seem like they last forever while also being over in the blink of an eye!

Similar sensation to being in an isolation chamber

yapyap• 2 years ago

What I think he meant is that time slows down for him in the way that time around him speeds up while he can stay focused on one thing.

Now of course I’m not the author so I’m not sure but yeah the way you’re describing it (real time flying when you’re locked in on something) is how I feel it goes for most people

marmaduke• 2 years ago

Yep that’s my reading too. I like to see it from a dynamical systems perspective: as a system approaches an attractor, the phase flow slows down, while the wall time marches on steadily. If we consider the “perspective” of the system, which is wall time divided by phase flow, we get the time speeding up part.

kukkeliskuu7• 2 years ago

I have experienced slowing of time in improvised couples dancing. I may have to react to very complex situations in a time frame that feels impossible.

For example, at the same time my follower can be so tense that she cannot feel leading/following signals as well as if she was relaxed, and she mis-interprets my lead and goes where I was not expecting her to go, her clothing gets stuck, another couple comes into the space I have directed our dance and we are about to crash etc. All this while I am interpreting live music in an interesting way. (This is an extreme example, most of the time things go smoothly.)

It may be unbelievable that it is possible to be able to solve such problems in split second, but it happens all the time in improvised couples dancing. The analytical mind is way too slow for it, however. If I am experiencing time that has slowed down, there is ample time to do everything. It does not even feel I need to rush it, but I can stay relaxed, and continue improvising go the music.

bbor2• 2 years ago

Well put, but I think you’re using “focus” in a different sense than the author is.

The article discusses internal (intensional!) focus on the substance of experience itself as it’s presented to your unified Ego, and you’re discussing the much more common idea of external (extensional!!1!) focus, which is almost the exact opposite since it typically requires quieting your inner monologue to the greatest extent possible and letting your subconscious faculties act autonomously.

larodi4• 2 years ago

Author describes experiences that myself can fully confirm. Everything said in this article resonates very strong, including how time slows in observation. This incredible essay is a very organic, honest summary, yet without all the esoteric, of what a mindful presence can be (whenever achieved). A bliss retold in few paragraphs.

Indeed to let go of the worldly rush is truly liberating. What a pity it is not allowed to complement the scriptures with such insights.

Arch-TK• 2 years ago

It is my experience that "flow" is not the same as "mindfulness" or "attention".

moobsen• 2 years ago

I think it is helpful to differentiate between mindfulness and concentration.*

I would associate flow more with concentration. And if there is no mindfulness together with the concentration, time will just "fly by". At least for me.

*As it is done in Buddhism, where both are separate spokes of the dharma wheel.

jcul• 2 years ago

It's an interesting thing to consider.

They seem both similar but very different at the same time.

"Flow" to me feels like allowing the mind off its leash, but having it be completely focused on one task rather than its normal state of unfocused chaos.

Whereas "mindfulness" feels more like allowing the mind to rest and become still.

In the former time slips by so quickly, and the latter time can seem to stand still, but with both time becomes meaningless.

Maybe what both have in common is this disconnection from time.

mattgreenrocks5• 2 years ago

Flow can deplete you because of the singular focus. Mindfulness refreshes you because you simply are - there’s no motive for it.

kukkeliskuu7• 2 years ago

I do improvized couples dancing, and have experienced time slowing down. It is an unique kind of experience, not just a different conceptualization of an everyday experience.

Buddhists say that you are where your attention is. So if a sound captures 100% of my attention, I am that sound. This feels strange on the surface, but when you look deeper into it, it reveals deep wisdom about the human experience.

In my understanding, it is possible, through years of practice (meditation etc.), to learn to direct your attention. Most of us have very limited capability to direct our attention, because we have not practiced it. Actually, modern life trains us to become less capable of directing our attention.

Based on your description, when you talk about "focusing on one task", you describe a flow state where you are 100% absorbed in the task. In a way you have not consciously decided to focus your attention. (I use a very specific meaning for the word conscious here, it is more aligned with the buddhist sense of the word, instead of western sense of having-thoughts-about the thing).

Your attention has been captured by the task at hand. In a way you are lucky that an useful and productive task has captured your attention.

In my understanding, if you learn to direct and hold the attention consciously, there is a next stage you can learn, where you become able to split your attention, to be conscious of two things at the same time.

If you direct some of your attention to the task at had, and some attention to a part in you observing yourself doing the task, then it feels as if the task is "happening", instead of you "doing" the task.

When this happens, there are effects on the physical experience as well, such as time slowing down. I have been blessed with such experiences when dancing, It seems to be possible to have such experiences also without being able to consistently and consciously direct the attention, as I have been blessed with such experiences in my dancing. But in this case it is accidental.

djtango3• 2 years ago

In sports/competition isn't what you've described the ability to both execute technically extremely precisely while having presence of mind to dictate the flow of the game?

billwear7• 2 years ago

you have described my experience succinctly and eloquently. it is a profound event that feels like a whole-body centering. thank you for this.

mattgreenrocks5• 2 years ago

Good write-up. IME, you can meditate enough that you can sometimes consciously choose to slow time down to devote more and more attention to something.

The key advantage of this is you can jumpstart a flywheel: attention -> unmediated effort -> attention. I say unmediated because your talking mind gets out of the way or helps you (versus never shutting up). I have used this during guitar practice sessions and found them both very enjoyable and helpful in the learning process.

peepee1982• 2 years ago

I believe the original author referred to the importance of intentionally focusing on something that isn't stimulating enough to create a sense of flow. It requires mindful effort to truly pay attention.

In essence, it's about being present without an occupied mind. In my experience, this can make time seem to pass more slowly, but in a pleasant way, even if it's somewhat subdued compared to a state of flow.

adamc4• 2 years ago

Yes. For many years, working on hard problems was my "drug of choice", because while in that state time disappeared, as did emotional pain -- being fully invested in a problem used up enough of my brain to shut up the internal narrator and the consciousness of pain.

It still does. But eventually you become aware that you aren't solving the key problem, just making it worse by not addressing it.

d4mi3n4• 2 years ago

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abc-1• 2 years ago

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aroman• 2 years ago

I read no moralizing or grandstanding in GP’s comment. It’s a valid point - most humans on planet earth will experience some form of mental disorder in their lifetime.[0]

[0] https://hms.harvard.edu/news/half-worlds-population-will-exp...

eterpstra• 2 years ago

You know, the entire point of this website is to comment on articles with our own thoughts, experiences, and opinions - even if it's moralizing and/or grandstanding.

Can we stop discouraging comments in the comment section? It gets so tiresome.

d4mi3n4• 2 years ago

My intent was to point out that personal experiences differ and that things the article points out as given are not so given for everyone.

My intent was not to moralize and I'm uncertain to what part of my original comment could be interpreted as a moral stance.

tikhonj• 2 years ago

People largely understand that folks who can't walk can't walk. There is still a lot of moralizing around mental health and treatment. "ADHD is not a real thing, they just need to stop being lazy"/etc/etc.

The two situations are simply not comparable.

hackernewds6• 2 years ago

did the comment get edited or are you responded to the wrong comment? I see no reference to anything as such

keybored17• 2 years ago

Anyone with ADHD, clinical depression, bipolar disorder, and many other conditions simply do not and cannot have full control of their minds without medical intervention.

Who are you and how are you privy to what I can and cannot do without intervention? Where do you get off?

d4mi3n4• 2 years ago

I'm speaking for myself (ADHD) and anecdotal experience from people in my life with these conditions (clinical depression, bipolar disorder, ADHD). I don't claim to speak for anyone.

Your experience may be different, and that is fine and valid. The point I'm trying to make (and that you're also making) is that things that are fundamental truths for some are not always applicable or valid from the context of another person's lived experience.

greggyb4• 2 years ago

I will note that you are not responding to what you have quoted, but to an extreme re-interpretation.

The OP says "exert some mastery over", which is a far cry from the "full control" you say some people cannot have.

d4mi3n4• 2 years ago

You raise a fair point. I think some of this is likely reactionary to some degree. Very often the response to a person struggling with a condition is "just try harder", so it's really, really easy read statements like the one you quoted as being more prescriptive than they are likely intended.

krzat2• 2 years ago

Honestly the bigger problem is probably that creating lasting habits is hard. Everyone knows that exercise is important but how many people maintain a consistent routine?

With mindfulness it's even worse because there is no way to track how strong your equanimity is. You can't know if you are making progress or just deluding yourself.

keybored17• 2 years ago

My meditation book (The Mind Illuminated) divides everything into stages. And the strength of one’s mindfulness is discussed.

imp0cat3• 2 years ago

People are creatures of comfort. That's why I'd disagree with your first sentence. I think creating long-lasting habits can be easy, in fact sometimes you don't even realize it happened until it's too late.

Now getting rid of the bad habits and keeping only the good ones, that is the hard part.

TomK323• 2 years ago

I can only confirm this and still struggle whenever I want to create a new habit. Russel Barkley when speaking about ADHD in children suggests to prefer productivity over quality. Want to work out more? Go for a walk/run every day, start and don't bother about the distance or duration. Same for the gym, as long as you keep going there, doing whatever you improve the likelyhood of doing it better this or the next time.

hu32• 2 years ago

You're getting disproportionately criticised and having uncharitable replies but, you're right.

Any serious psychiatrist will confirm that medication is immensely helpful to the majority of ADHD cases if not all. Our brains are just different, chemistry-wise.

I don't know why people get so offended by this notion.

keybored17• 2 years ago

People have already responded with their reasons. You can try to hammer on with further digressions from what the submission is about (not even wrong), complete with that inflamed/emotionally charged interpretation, but what’s the point in spilling more bytes on this.

latentsea• 2 years ago

immensely helpful to the majority of ADHD cases if not all

Definitely not all. Medication doesn't work for something like 10% ~ 20% of us. In my case it worked well for 6 months and gradually I acclimated to it and the effects went away, I switched medications and had the exact same experience. I gave up after that.

scubbo3• 2 years ago

Anyone with ADHD, clinical depression, bipolar disorder, and many other conditions simply do not and cannot have full control of their minds without medical intervention.

Right - hence "might", not "do"; and "some", not "full".

afro88• 2 years ago

You're right, but it's a bit of an uncharitable take on the post. Nowhere does the it say that medical intervention is unnecessary for people with conditions requiring it.

The title, and quoted passage, are fully applicable to those with the listed conditions and without. The advice from the post supplements medical intervention for folks requiring it.

whatever1• 2 years ago

Sometimes I just feel too tired to be actively engaged in the moment and i feel the time just passing by. Not sure what the solution is.

joseferben2• 2 years ago

excellent article!

one of my favorite books about this that i can not recommend enough is “the miracle of mindfulness” by thich nhat hanh.

vonnik3• 2 years ago

Cognitive control is one of the most important issues of our era, IMHO:

https://vonnik.substack.com/p/how-to-take-your-brain-back

There are many techniques to increase our CC. The ADHD community is a trailblazer in this respect.

YossarianFrPrez• 2 years ago

I used to think that once I started browsing the internet, it was time for a break. One technique I've implemented, which I haven't seen mentioned is "walking pomodoro technique": for every 25 minutes of work, I get up and take a brisk 5-min walk (or lately, a jog) and come back. One of the most surprising things is that by mandating my own breaks, I browse the internet a lot less.

greggyb4• 2 years ago

I suffer from RSI and definitely do not move enough when I am invested in some piece of work (personal or professional). I recently installed workrave[0] and have noticed marked improvements in just a couple weeks of actually taking breaks when it indicates.

I take a 25 second break every 5 minutes, and use this time to do one hand and wrist exercise (I keep some resistance bands and hand exercise balls at the desk). I take a 5 minute break every 25 minutes. I will either do some stretches, or a quick chore (e.g. vacuum one room).

https://workrave.org/

TomK323• 2 years ago

I tried Pomodoro more than once, but so far always failed. I guess I have to follow Russel Barlkeys advice to externalize the internal and replace the Pomodoro app with a physical timer that sits on my desk with sad eyes when I don't use it for more than a day.

keybored17• 2 years ago

tl;dr: more talk about “dopamine” and addictive devices. I prefer the submission.

bbor2• 2 years ago

Fun article, thanks for sharing! It always blows my mind how much work people will put into this stuff without consulting/citing the thousands of years of cognitive scientists that have been working on the problem, but that’s more of a systemic problem; it’s what we get for describing the history of science as “first there was silly philosophy, and then in 1600 we finally figured out empiricism and actual/real/true science started”. I absolutely agree that cognitive science in general is about to take the world by storm as we learn more about our neurology (Google “DeWave”), and systematize philosophies.

The DOJ recently filed the first big post-Covid telehealth suit against a California ADHD treatment company (aka Adderal distribution) called Done, and it’s honestly fascinating to read the blog posts written by the founding doctor. His professional and philosophical opinion is that ADHD is a wildly underdiagnosed neurological state that can come and go over a lifetime, especially in reaction to attention-degrading “exocortices” as your article calls them. Obviously his credibility is damaged by the fact that he made ~$2.5M off that stance, but still, I think there might be something there. His favorite citation is Hippocrates, though I’ve never actually looked for the primary source he’s referring to.

The big exception to my complaint above is, in 2024, of course Stoicism, probably because it’s so damn cool (a book by an ancient general on how to be stronger? Sign me up!) and can be downright utopian when summarized in the right way, promising you eternal control. The article above clearly takes the general Stoic framework for granted in the very first paragraph, so I was more than a little surprised not to see it cited directly.

larodi4• 2 years ago

The universally accepted ADHD community’s technique seems to be called Adderall. It is difficult to pinpoint another universally accepted technique. Breathwork is not always good for ADHD from my personal experience and is not universally accepted. So really wonder what this trailblazer thing is about.

Another very apparent shortcut to ADHD treatment, also not universally accepted, is called endogenous adrenaline - the simplest drug molecule as somebody (Neal Stephenson in Snow Crash if memory serves right) designated it, and extreme sports provide a lot of it for free. This article though, does not seem to be about any of these - adrenaline or sports. Extreme sports such as snowboarding, downhill biking, paragliding (not really a sport), motorbiking, etc… are all about said state of flow and attention. No other activities I can think of that impact ADHD so quick and profound. Cause you loose your attention only once with these things.

devjab2• 2 years ago

In Denmark where I am from mindfulness is actually a rather big part of ADHD mastering (or whatever they call learning to live with it these days). Exercise and medicine are also part of it, but learning skills to help you function are bigger. I think breathwork as you point out is individual. Here they tend to have you try out various ways of gaining focus through mindfulness though. The one which worked best for me is holding hands under water, like washing hands, others meditate, others again so the whole breath focus thing and so on.

I do think this article plays a little light on what you can do, and how much of it you’ll need to do, to actually tame your attention. I do a lot of things. I don’t keep my mobile phone near me when I don’t want to use it. I do mindfulness. I plan to head out at 9:00 if I’m really supposed to head out at 9:15 because that means I’ll get out at 9:13-9:17 and not stress about it leaving more energy to focus my attention. I do the drugs, in my case Lisdexamfetamin is the least shitty. I ride my bike everywhere. I walk in the woods. I do a lot of things like that and it helps, but it’s not like it’s quite as simple as this article might make it sound. Even if you do it in small steps.

I think the biggest difference between how we deal with ADHD and attention here and the article is that we don’t focus on attention. We view ADHD as an “energy deficiency”. This is because you pay attention to too many things with ADHD, which means you run out of energy sooner than regular people. At which point you can’t pay attention to things that aren’t interesting to you. What is worse is that you’ll hyperfocus on things that, are, interesting and that will drain your energy as well. You’ll probably also forget to eat because you don’t really feel hunger, again draining you. Anyway, to live with ADHD in Denmark is in large parts about managing a fuel tank which is simply much smaller than everyone else’s. Because you need the fuel to pay attention.

dailykoder• 2 years ago

I just got diagnosed with ADHD in 2023, but been addicted to adrenalin all my life. And I must say it had tremendous effects. The times where I was doing active extreme sports (Downhill mountainbiking or Motocross in my case) have been those where I had my mind in the clearest possible state. It's not only that my mind would calm down in that exact moment, but it lasted for quite a few days.

At first there was the adrenaline spike, when it wore off then the body exhaustion kicked in, and when my body started to recover, the week was almost over again and I could get another dose.

Over the past couple years I tried to avoid the risk a little and been just doing "easy" mountainbike tours. And oh boy, that's the thing for me. I think only my brother can relate how that feels to me. It starts out like a normal bike ride, but my eyes are always on the outlook for some fun spots (where can I jump up/over/down? How long can I wheelie today? You name it..). This combined with hours of just mundane paddeling is the way for me. Keeps stress levels low and my mind at ease, plus a few fun adrenaline spikes.

BUT ritalin is still a great great relieve for me. Though I wish I would not need it. For now it works, but I'll try to find habits that will hopefully make it obsolete one day. And the diagnosis was a good starting point for that, because now I know why my brain behaves different than others

TomK323• 2 years ago

The universally accepted ADHD community’s technique seems to be called Adderall.

I wouldn't call it technique. ADHD is the one condition of the mind that can be treated with medication with greater success than any other, and yet it is under-diagnosed in children and adults.

blueyes• 2 years ago

Attention is good. Building the habit of paying attention is hard. Many people who get good at meditation underestimate the effort required. Highly recommend BJ Fogg's Tiny Habits for more on how to get started on anything important. Similar to the OP's separate article on kaizen:

https://tinyhabits.com/about/

hackernewds6• 2 years ago

what is CC?

vonnik3• 2 years ago

cognitive control, apols.

tolerance• 2 years ago

The mind is not the locus of peace and contentment. It is the heart.

dirtyhippiefree2• 2 years ago

The power of Being (simply existing mindfully) as opposed to the Doing we feel compelled into.

When you Are who you are, you will Do what you do, and likely find greater success because it comes from who you are, not what someone is telling you to do…

loa_in_• 2 years ago

It's a very hard topic to write or even talk about but what you wrote rings true.

connectsnk3• 2 years ago

To the author : I find your article really insightful. I want to read more but I realize this article is not on your homepage. There might be more stuff that you have written and is unlisted. How can i find it all.

pkilgore• 2 years ago

OP is in large degree one articulation of foundational mindfulness concepts that have been written about for centuries.

What about the OP specifically appeals? Happy to point you at some other things if I can.

greggyb4• 2 years ago

I can recommend the Waking Up app. It has a well paced and well done introduction to mindfulness in a very similar style to the linked article. If interested, I can share a link for a free 30-day trial.

I have no affiliation and get no kickback. It has simply been quite useful for me.

keybored17• 2 years ago

The Mind Illuminated is a book with a similar style.

dmje2• 2 years ago

I was reminded of my all-time favourite book on meditation / mindfulness: Mindfulness in Plain English by Henepola Gunaratana. The article had a similar style. Gunaratana’s book is full of humour and beautiful writing and I’d recommend it as a brilliant guide to anyone interested in this stuff.

billwear7• 2 years ago

i usually post here first, and then add to the homepage later. i'll fix that next couple of days.

scubbo3• 2 years ago

https://billwear.github.io/

connectsnk3• 2 years ago

This article is not listed on the homepage. That’s what I said.

bushido• 2 years ago

I had the exact same question. I was able to locate the contents with a code search on github: https://github.com/billwear/billwear.github.io

connectsnk3• 2 years ago

Thank you kind person.

mistermann7• 2 years ago

As much as I love the sentiment, these sorts of pieces (written or verbal) always contain contradictions, usually important ones relative to the claims.

keybored17• 2 years ago

These contradictions (?) may be rooted in the reader’s assumptions about the world: the writer says A and B, but to the reader B implies (not A) because of their world view. In short they might not be actual contradictions.

This might seem very vague but a discussion on something so first-person as the mind is ripe for that kind of thing.

Which is resolved with dialogue. If the contradictions are brought up.

mistermann7• 2 years ago

Which is resolved with dialogue. If the contradictions are brought up.

In my experience noting contradictions usually leads to evasive memes and anger/unhappiness.

youoy2• 2 years ago

For me contradictions are unavoidable when speaking about the mind. Usually the aim is not to give you specific objective truths, but to evoke something in your mind that feels evidently true to you. That is why usually the most effective communication tools that are used are metaphors. And communicating that way correctly is very very difficult. That means that most of these sort of pieces are going to be very bad... But I actually think that this one is not that bad

mistermann7• 2 years ago

For me contradictions are unavoidable when speaking about the mind.

"It (seems like it) is my opinion that {some opinion}" has very few ways of going wrong, and has the side benefit of reminding one that they're dealing with a subjective map, which is in part the goal of most authors of such pieces, imho anyways.

I think mindfulness gang could up their game.

dmje2• 2 years ago

This is a really great description of why a meditative practice is worth taking time on and also why it’s worth railing against todays constant attention deficit and lack of empty, quiet spaces, both mental and physical. Excellent writing!

akomtu• 2 years ago

Ads Industry would rather not you to have any control over your attention. Indeed, if ads can't distract you, can't steal your attention, then those ads can't make money.

bansuian• 2 years ago

The first paragraph reminds me of the following from The Joy Luck Club.

It started to rain again, just a light rain. The people from downstairs called up to me once again to hurry. And my thoughts became more urgent, more strange.

I asked myself, what is true about a person? Would I change in the same way the river changes color but still be the same person? And then I saw the curtains blowing wildly, and outside rain was falling harder, causing everyone to scurry and shout. I smiled. And then I realized it was the first time I could see the power of the wind. I couldn’t see the wind itself, but I could see it carried the water that filled the rivers and shaped the countryside. It caused men to yelp and dance.

I wiped my eyes and looked in the mirror. I was surprised at what I saw. I had on a beautiful red dress, but what I saw was even more valuable. I was strong. I was pure. I had genuine thoughts inside that no one could see, that no one could ever take away from me. I was like the wind.

I threw my head back and smiled proudly to myself. And then I draped the large embroidered red scarf over my face and covered these thoughts up. But underneath the scarf I still knew who I was. I made a promise to myself: I would always remember my parents’ wishes, but I would never forget myself.

oxqbldpxo• 2 years ago

I'm grateful for this advice. Will put into practice immediately. Death being a certainty, it is difficult to determine what time is actually worth using for. From an individual perspective, religion and knowledge are part of a conceptual world that will end with death. If there's actually anything post-death, it has to do with what it is here being called attention. Something beyond memory and thinking.

vunderba• 2 years ago

It's a bit heavy on the purple prose (though I was guilty of a very similar writing style in my 20s, and as I got on in life the purity of the idea became more important than its surrounding ornamental structures).

The gist of the article reminds me of a quote from the famous pianist Clara Schumann who would admonish her more virtuosic students for striving to play through passages as rapidly as possible.

"Why hurry over beautiful things? Why not linger and enjoy them?"

zozbot234• 2 years ago

So you're saying that Attention Is All You Need? (badum tss)

bsbsjsusj• 2 years ago

Yes, and if you want the verbose version, an LLM can generate that.

keybored17• 2 years ago

It's a bit heavy on the purple prose (though I was guilty of a very similar writing style in my 20s, and as I got on in life the purity of the idea became more important than its surrounding ornamental structures).

I can see that.

hackernewds6• 2 years ago

The ornamentation I think is necessary to let the reader recreate something so ethereal to explain. Like a koan. It benefited me at least.

akoboldfrying• 2 years ago

I still drift towards this overweening style myself if I'm not careful, which is probably why I hate it so much. I couldn't make it past paragraph 3.

Separo2• 2 years ago

Totally. Feels like a literary street performer.

romesmoke• 2 years ago

For a more elaborate, complete take on the value of attention, I can't recommend the work of Sir Iain McGilchrist enough.

wwwater• 2 years ago

Wow, great piece, thanks for sharing it! While reading it I was absolutely sure I've already heard it. For the first part I thought it's the transcript of the text they read in Vipassana retreat, and for the second I thought it must be from Alan Watts. But from the rest of the blog and from the comments here I understand that it's neither, and that it's just your thoughts. It reads really nicely, like a river.

I also noticed that your previous blog's name (stormrider) is somehow similar to mine (cyclinginthewind) haha.

alexashka• 2 years ago

And it is then, perhaps, that a subtle truth begins to emerge: the only thing we truly possess, the only thing we might, with enough care, exert some mastery over, is our mind

Well, that's not true at all.

When people make sweeping simple statements about matters that can't possibly be trivial - it makes me wonder how much most people resemble LLMs.

I'm sympathetic to spiritual matters but the field is littered with people who are deeply confused.

baxuz• 2 years ago

the only thing we truly possess, the only thing we might, with enough care, exert some mastery over, is our mind.

And our bodies.

fzeroracer• 2 years ago

I'm going to be That Guy and say I didn't particularly care for this piece. it reads like every single self-help or mindfulness book I've had the misfortune of skimming or having pushed down on me.

That isn't to say I fully discount mindfulness but rather the art of people being able to say a lot about ultimately nothing.

johnnyanmac2• 2 years ago

really depends on your stage in life. If you see self-actualization advice but you are still trying to work 18 hours/day to pay rent and keep a roof over your head, this advice won't resonate as much compared to a well off a cushy tech worker who may still feel a bit satisfied with their life projections.

billfruit• 2 years ago

Surprisingly the amount of praise it is getting here, consider how low on substance the post is.

keybored17• 2 years ago

It resonated with me.

I am partial to the mindfulness idea. But that doesn’t mean that I like everything that it is written on the topic. Some pieces on the topic are a bit too opinionated on what exactly mindfulness and attention are. Too opinionated to be short pieces on it. But this one just says that you can be curious about what the mind does and observe that it has a mind of its own. Which is true in my experience.

Your critique is fair of course.

carrotpuncher• 2 years ago

I appreciate coming across writings like these. For me I easily forget to just chill out, one day I’m full of whatever mindfulness i gain from nowhere in a quick hit of inspiration then as quick as it came I’m back to step one lost, until I come across something like this.

kvetching• 2 years ago

I've found cannabis to be extremely helpful. It adds a tinge of paranoia - so if you're paranoid about not reaching your potential, it can kick you into gear.

ananth99• 2 years ago

nah I found cannabis to be counterproductive in my case. It was never only a "tinge" of paranoia. It always comes up in bouts. And it was a slippery slope. I'd often keep getting distracted with other things like YouTube, games and social media to keep the anxiety and paranoia away.

Took a while to kick it out.

youoy2• 2 years ago

Each small effort, each moment of renewed attention, builds upon the last. Over time, these moments accumulate, and what was once difficult becomes second nature.

This! One thing is to find an oasis of attention from time to time, but the goal should be to fill it so that it becomes the sea, and that is extremely difficult (for starters due to the traps of modern attention seeking algorithms, but not only...).

robwwilliams• 2 years ago

Great article. The physics and neurophysiology of Nowness and attention are also complex.

Toward the end of his life Einstein had a conversation with Rudolf Carnap (ca 1953-54):

“Einstein said that the problem of Now worried him seriously. He explained that Now means something special for men, something essentially different from the past and the future, but that this important difference dies not and cannot occur within physics.”

Einstein was still struggling with counterpoints made by Bergson in their famous 1922 debate on time and the meaning of duration.

Neuroscience is just beginning to give us more insights into Now and I am reasonably confident that we will find solid (satisfying) physical explanations for human temporality (more so than those of Bergson, Husserl, and Heidegger). But this will not remove the personal mysteries of attention and being in the flow.

Yacovlewis• 2 years ago

Check out The Surrender Experiment by Michael Singer. He talks about his discovery of and relationship with his inner voice / consciousness. He's also the tech founder of a public EMR startup. Super interesting read.

thewanderer1983• 2 years ago

Stoicism explores these ideas. One of the basic premises is that all external events are out of our control and to focus on what is, basically what is in our mind and our actions. Then we should try to discipline our ideas around virtues which are always good instead of outcomes and externals. That summary doesn't do it justice, if interested in exploring further. There are some good books on amazon or check out dailstoic for a quick overview. https://dailystoic.com/what-is-stoicism-a-definition-3-stoic...

maroonblazer• 2 years ago

Buddhism explores these ideas too.

For a modern approach to this mindset I highly recommend "Seeing That Frees" by Rob Burbea.

https://app.thestorygraph.com/books/08772fe1-564c-4a95-9a5d-...

kn81198• 2 years ago

Vipassana Meditation formalizes this to a large extent and is extremely approachable. I would highly recommend anyone looking at guided meditation to give this a try:

https://www.dhamma.org/en-US/index

jackschultz• 2 years ago

Seeing that Frees for sure is the one that I suggest people read. Long and slow read where every paragraph seems like I could read it and sit and appreciate what he says before needing to read the next paragraph.

Burbea has many talks as well, youtube or on other podcast platforms. Hours and hours and hours of talks that are all so helpful on understanding in the word form.

Channel of his talks: https://www.youtube.com/@boubabuddha

I find this playlist great as a starting point if you want to get into it, and one that I can go back to: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLO6hhaAzLmioyOxMi8ELP...

samspot• 2 years ago

I kept expecting a Buddhism pitch in the article. It reminded me so much of the opening premise of The Untethered Soul.

I'm not too interested in Buddhism specifically, but I have been separating myself from technology more, and It's been great savoring the little moments I used to completely miss.

parthianshotgun• 2 years ago

Wouldn't stoicism be at odds with political action? Why protest if it's all out of our hands?

mattgreenrocks5• 2 years ago

Stoicism is not resigned helplessness. It is a realization that you can do what you feel you need to do (vote/protest/influence) while also realizing that the outcome is not under your control.

jabroni_salad• 2 years ago

An important part of Stoicism is making purposeful "responses" instead of suffering kneejerk "reactions." You can be more effective in all things, including political action, if you can master this.

I will also point out that one of the founding documents is Meditations by Marcus Aurelius, a Roman emperor. He was nothing if not political.

adamc4• 2 years ago

Yes, Stoicism can be seen as sort of the western version of Buddhism, at least as far as mindfulness is concerned.

cassepipe• 2 years ago

... and the simple discipline of DE (Do Easy) :

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S4Aio-lrVo8

(Gus Van Sant's first short movie, definitely HN worthy)

DrTung• 2 years ago

In one of the stories of Sherlock Holmes he asks Dr. Watson how many steps there are in the stairs leading up to their door. Watson replies he doesn't know and Sherlock gives the exact number and says "You see but you do not observe".

Sherlock Holmes seems to have read this article as well :-)

rhincodon• 2 years ago

Good read. For anyone interested in how to actually pay attention, Buddha taught mindfulness (Satipatthana in Pali) by focusing on four areas: Body, Sensations, Mind and Mental objects.

https://encyclopediaofbuddhism.org/wiki/Satipatthana

revskill• 2 years ago

Did smoking help on attention and make it a habit ?

gwintrob• 2 years ago

Great read. Reminds me of "The Miracle of Mindfulness"

debit-freak3• 2 years ago

There comes a moment in life, often in the quietest of hours, when one realizes that the world will continue on its wayward course, indifferent to our desires or frustrations.

Is this not trivially obvious at all moments of consciousness? The assumptions here make no sense.

dtdynasty• 2 years ago

It may be logically obvious but I don't think many people accept it and act with this in mind. Either due to emotionally not being able to accept it or because it's hard to apply to every decision.

debit-freak3• 2 years ago

I'm not sure what "logic" has to do with this, but I am confused why one would presume others share this mindset.

Retric• 2 years ago

“realizes”

Your heartbeat is a constant 24/7 but you rarely notice it outside of moments of quiet contemplation. Same deal here, we’re really good at ignoring most things because we would be unable to function without blocking just about everything else out. Arguably a great deal of our economy is based around people actively trying to avoid actually contemplating anything deeply.

debit-freak3• 2 years ago

Oh absolutely, I'm just shocked at the idea the author would presume others feel this way too.

curvingwave• 2 years ago

I needed to read this

bt1a• 2 years ago

This is beautiful! It is how I look at mindfulness mediation, and I will use some of the clear writing from this piece when trying to convey it to others

famahar• 2 years ago

The best book I've read on attention and living in the present is 'The art of noticing' by Rob Walker. I like his approach because it's basically tons of small mindfulness activities baked into everyday life. You start intentionally paying attention to little details in the world more and it's like a flow of creative ideas to keep yourself in a state of wonder about everyday life. It's like being a child again. Seeing things for the first time and taking the time to appreciate them.

divbzero• 2 years ago

Social media, engineered for “engagement”, is the antithesis of the mindfulness described in OP.

hp77• 2 years ago

Very good article, I 100% agree on everything. It is in moments of desperation to complete more than one task and complete them early we forget that our mind doesn't work that way, really liked the whole essay. I think one should visit it from time to time to remind themselves. Not to nitpick on CSS but I had to add following styles to the webpage to read it comfortably: p { display: flex; justify-content: center; align-items: center; margin: 0; font-family: Arial, sans-serif; padding-left: 20px; padding-right: 20px; text-align: center; max-width: 800px; margin-left: auto; margin-right: auto; } maybe you can add them if you want. Again, Great article. Thanks.

winternewt• 2 years ago

I just made my browser window narrower.

WaitWaitWha• 2 years ago

And so, the journey to mastery of the mind begins not with grand gestures but with the simplest of practices: the practice of paying attention. Attention to the present, attention to what truly matters, and attention to the quiet spaces in between. In this way, step by step, thought by thought, we move closer to that elusive state of clarity, of peace, and of freedom.

I abhor deepity, pseudo-profundity that provides no path for the average.

Tell me, the dullard, what is the practical approach?

How do I recognize or pay attention to the present? What does truly matter? Again, how do I recognize quiet spaces in between? Finally, how do I recognize state of clarity, of peace, and of freedom? What is the benefit to me and what are the steps for a simpleton to achieve said state?

HellDunkel• 2 years ago

Lets be honest. There is a grain of truth to be found here in an age of distraction. There is also a fair bit of distraction disguised in flowery of prose.

shoaloak• 2 years ago

Nice article, currently reading 'The power of now' by Eckhart Tolle which has essentially the same message, but with more depth and spirituality. Never considered myself spiritual up until now, as life definitely seems easier following the present path.

Anybody with tips or exchanges with regards to Stoicism or other fields such as Bhuddism? I have the feeling it also has these concepts but I am very new with all this.

imp0cat3• 2 years ago

There's a couple of very well done videos on stoicisim on youtube - channel Philosophies for Life, ie: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HXOOcKnspVg

mattgreenrocks5• 2 years ago

Marcus Aurealius' Meditations is a good way to dip your toes in the water of Stoicism.

It has a bit of pop culture sheen to it presently but the content is still quality.

adamc4• 2 years ago

Huh. I've read a number of books on stoicism and mindfulness/buddhism, but I've never gotten far with Tolle. He just falls flat for me.

jankovicsandras• 2 years ago

Isn't parts of this quoting or paraphrasing from the book "The Tibetan Book of Living and Dying" ? https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Tibetan_Book_of_Living_a...

billwear7• 2 years ago

haven't read that book, but it's not unusual since language is finite.

skrebbel• 2 years ago

Language is finite in the same way as our supply of UUIDs is, ie, not finite at all in any practical sense.

konschubert• 2 years ago

Slightly OT, but I think they could have spent 10KB on some additional CSS limiting the line width.

Popeyes2• 2 years ago

Yes, I put my browser in reader mode, but then I tend to do that anyway if I am not scan reading a document.

OkanBilal• 2 years ago

Thanks for the thoughtful piece. It touched on some nuances of a topic I’ve been thinking about for some time.

I’ve stopped reading the news for a while now. There are times I only catch up on big news, weeks after they happen. The media tends to mix the important and the irrelevant, often adding sensationalism to stories that don’t really matter to you, and an unguarded mind can easily fall for it. If something major happens, it’ll reach you eventually. Everything else is mostly irrelevant and just a distraction. Worrying about things we can’t control is a waste of our attention.

While ideas are often exaggerated, actions are undervalued. Yet small, intentional actions are the key to mental well-being. Adding a simple 10-minute routine to a part of your day can naturally help structure the moments before and after that routine. I believe these small steps are essential for cultivating balance in one’s life.

Popeyes2• 2 years ago

Pad this with seven chapters of waffle and you've got yourself a bestseller.

bdjsiqoocwk• 2 years ago

Already exists, it's called "the seven habits of highly effective people".

mettamage• 2 years ago

I normally am not too annoyed by it, but I'm happy to know where the browswer tab is to add a quick

margin: 100px;

font-size: 20px;

That was a bit too small and wide to read otherwise.

Anyways, some comments on the content:

Meditation helps to reclaim the attention. I currently meditate 1 hour per day on average and am definitely noticing my mind jumping anywhere and everywhere. I'm beginning to see patterns. One of the biggest patterns is that whatever I consumed for the last 2 or 3 days pops up in my mind as a thought much more often than I'd want. So whatever my inputs are, it's important. In that sense, I might want to consider doing an "input reset", i.e. just a week of mostly stillness before I continue my life.

use_dea• 2 years ago

what a great article

rapht• 2 years ago

Countless Buddhist books explore this in thorough detail.

kleiba• 2 years ago

Caveat: this is not about neural network architectures.

Separo2• 2 years ago

I know some people may find the introduction engaging, but any article that begins: "There comes a moment in life..." you just know that the author is going to lay out some pretentious self-scripture.

xwowsersx• 2 years ago

This is an overly rigid view. "There comes a moment in life" can be used as a relatable, humanizing introduction, drawing readers into a shared experience or insight. It doesn't necessarily lead to pretentiousness—what matters is how the idea is developed after that.

PaulRobinson• 2 years ago

I'm sad that you've never had singular moments in life that have caused fundamental reflection and re-evaluation of things you took for granted. I've had many. They're delightful, terrifying, hilarious, sombre, banal and life-changing, sometimes several of these at the same time.

I didn't find the article particularly pretentious, or "self-scripture", whatever that may be.

Perhaps dive in, reflect, and then ask after you've read the whole article whether it was pretentious "self-scripture" before assuming it is. As a heuristic, your current method seems a bit over-fitted to a false premise.

focus3381• 2 years ago

The article captures everything I believe when it comes to attention. Every word resonates with me.

However, there are two things I would like to share that the article doesn't mention but are of deep importance when it comes to directing attention and 'mastering' one's mind.

First, approaching this as a way to 'master' or conquer your mind isn’t going to take us very far. There is nothing to master. Our minds are the ones wandering, and we, as living conscious beings, can observe the mind and make use of it. However, the idea of mastery is the mind itself trying to master itself, which won't lead us anywhere. If one thinks they have mastered their own mind, it is just the mind in control again, and you are merely acting on its desires rather than on intent that comes from deep within.

Second, and of extreme importance: one cannot give their full attention to the present out of fear. To many, this may sound strange and incomprehensible, but from my own experience delving into meditation and exploring my consciousness through altered states (e.g., hallucinogens), I can confirm that it is fear that prevents us from giving all of our attention even to the smallest things: a still object, a sound, or the feeling of your feet touching the floor. All of these sensory experiences, which for the most part occupy and illuminate the present moment, require something that is the ultimate fear of our minds: death. To be totally present in the moment is to die to the ever-restless and busy mind, and the fear of this death is no different to your mind than the fear of physical death. Even if temporary, full attention in the present moment represents the end of your dreams, desires, and sense of identity, along with everything that permeates it. I know this because the liberation that comes through certain drugs unlocks the potential to fully focus on the present moment. When you try, you may fail miserably because you start fearing what you sense and what you see.

mouse_• 2 years ago

It's totally possible to master one's mind. Your statement is one of semantics; an individual has cognitive processes they consider autonomous, and processes they consider conscious, or deliberate. the article is about deliberate processes taking precedence over autonomous processes. It's about being truthful to oneself, and living or thinking in a way that aligns with one's stated goals.

readenough• 2 years ago

For many you are correct. I can confirm, through my own observation, that many, not all, are controlled by fear, and fear of death is one of the most prevalent. Death is universal, but fear of death is not.

FrustratedMonky• 2 years ago

I like it, but man, white on black text is really hard on the eyes.

imp0cat3• 2 years ago

The soothing colors of an open terminal window. ;)

utkarsh858• 2 years ago

Nice article, deep introspection and attention to moment have helped me a lot in experiencing life fully. Somehow I remembered this line from Gita: "For him who has conquered the mind, the mind is the best of friends; but for one who has failed to do so, his mind will remain the greatest enemy."

desertraven3• 2 years ago

In regard to watching the mind, one thing I’ve observed is a little strange, and I was hoping to get other’s experiences.

I like to watch the movement of my attention. Nothing abstract, just to observe where attention is aimed - it takes a mere 30 seconds of watching.

What I’ve noticed, is it moves around, seemingly without my input, and lacking any conscious intent (a concept the blog post makes a point to reclaim).

The light of attention shines throughout the physical scene, but it is sensorily multidimensional. It might move to the pain in my back, or the sound of the frogs, or the mug on my desk, a random memory, or more relevant to the article, the latest arising thought.

I am watching this movement of ‘my’ attention, and yet I seem to be playing no part in the neither the objects of attention, or the movement of attention itself.

This isn’t to say I cannot decide right now to move my hand in front of my face and observe it, but this arising of intention is itself mysterious too.

eightysixfour3• 2 years ago

Sam Harris makes the point that this, our actual observable experience, is the strongest argument against free will.

insaider• 2 years ago

Highly recommend his meditation app 'Waking Up' in which he explains and teaches these concepts better than any source I've yet found

andrei_says_• 2 years ago

One of Advaita’s (nonduality) pointers is to observe one’s choices and find this independent/free will we believe we have.

I’ve watched my choices for about a decade now and have not been able to find anything like independent choice.

Everything I observe is dependent on something else (genetics, conditioning, environment, external or internal event), or a manifestation of a preference, currently active desire, emotion, thought or need.

Once I noticed that these are all spontaneous or predetermined I can no longer see the concept of “free will” as anything but an unpacked box containing a bunch of phenomena.

Another pointer of Advaita is that our brains tend to hold a view of a free will universe, or a pre-determined universe - which is a limit of the mind not the universe itself :)

keybored17• 2 years ago

I would agree that Sam Harris is most probably a robot.

MrMcCall8• 2 years ago

And yet he cannot explain where the impulses come from.

As to argument against free will: do you not have the ability to choose between giving the next homeless person you see some money or being rude to them? Of course you do. You are also free to believe and then claim that the world is flat, but that don't make it true.

We can each choose to be compassionate, callous, or cruel -- to whomever we choose, to whatever extent we choose. The choices most people make are usually no more than the inertia of our cultural inheritances, which are, themselves, usually born of generational ignorance of the importance of active compassion and service to others' happiness.

The inertias of our world cultures are rife with ignorance of the fact that the happiest people are those that care for those around them. Of course, if worldly success is your only benchmark, then you are free to choose Musk's or Trump's path to "success", but you aren't going to find happiness there, no matter how easy it is to climb that ladder in this world's assbackwards value system. I challenge you to look at Jimmy Carter's or MLK's smiles for observable experience. Such a smile is earned and evidenced over our lifetime as obviously as a tree's growth rings reflect its experiences. Ours are indicative of our cumulative choices, for we are the only beings on Earth that have a moral compass and the imperative to choose accordingly.

Disruptive_Dave• 2 years ago

"I am not my thoughts." Or, as I prefer, "these thoughts are not mine." Experience that over and over again and everything gets a little easier, a little clearer. That's when the detachment from thoughts begins.

padraigf• 2 years ago

I meditate a good bit, an hour a day, and it doesn't stop thoughts arising, so I've had some time to think about this.

My guess is, it's just an evolutionarily useful thing, for your brain to keep pinging you about various things.

It doesn't mean of course that meditation is not useful. But you want to have control over these thoughts. Without a meditative practice, it's all too easy to allow your consciousness to be consumed by these impulses (which can lead you astray).

MrMcCall8• 2 years ago

The best we can do with them is to "pay them no mind", i.e. just let them pass though us and then into the void of non-effect. The important understanding is that we can choose to act upon them or ignore them. Ignoring negative impulses is essential for developing compassion as a way of life, and doing so is no less than warfare, the most important we can ever undertake. Of course, if the impulse is "you left the burner on", you should make sure it's not going to cause a fire! Discernment of the flavors of streams that present themselves to our consciousness is sublime and the work of our lifetime.

I made the Bhodisattva Vow nearly 30 years ago, and am now a very happy person with a very happy family, though we have lived in poverty for ~15 years now. Ask me how ;-)

Side note: I lived with yoga practioners and know of the possible dangers therein, so I highly suggest that you add a mantra of positivity to your practice. My experience is that the best are the various two syllable names of our Creator, to accompany your heartbeat. Such mantras are the best baseline for us to fall back into within the busyness of this 21st Century life, but choose what makes you feel happy, for happiness is within the grasp of our every choice.

With love and friendship.

MrMcCall8• 2 years ago

Excellent. Amazing what we programmers have time to explore while we stare at our screens as we try to "work" ;-)

Overall, as human beings in 2024, we are advanced technologically, but not spiritually (yet).

At the basis of our being is the most etheral and fundamental of our connections to the multidimensional universe, which we are a part of, ofc. That pair are our free will and our mind. We use our mind to control our free will, which we use to choose what we do with our physical body.

What you have noticed is that our inner world is always experiencing external thought impulses that seek to direct our attention this way and that; for most of us, we merely let it lead us as it suggests.

Note that what I describe here is born of my Sufi tradition's teaching, but can also be found in a much different sense in Carlos Castaneda's very bizarre and dubious books, which I read many times in my younger years, and have yet to validate as true, but have found to contain many valuable lessons (useful allegory or strange reality? idk which yet).

Regardless, we are multidimensional creatures in a multidimensional universe, that contains six onion layers of differing vibrational planes, one of which our physical bodies inhabit, and another our energy bodies inhabit (our souls). Another pair contains sources of thoughts/feelings that are suggested to our mind as courses of action. Our job as the only moral beings of our plane is to ascertain their positivity/negativity and act according to loving positivity.

One negative example of our reality is the child's urge to steal a candy bar, but we can see a more deleterious example in cultures that have adoped falsehoods as a foundation of belief (they are particularly dangerous here in America now). Note that we are free to choose to believe in anything whatsoever, no matter how untrue or ridiculous. It takes a lifetime of careful consideration to hone one's ability to know truth from falsehood, which is part thoughtfulness and part feeling. One cannont develop that ability without committing oneself to a life of compassion. (Finland is directly teaching its children about misinformation; good job, Fins!)

As to the physical multidimensionalness of the universe, 5/6th of the universe is dark matter, as the matter in the other layers of the onion do not directly interact with ours but yet (somehow -- I don't know the details yet) still affects the combined gravity (as evidenced by our measurements of galactic inertia). Dark matter is undetectable in our plane because we only have our plane's members to do the detection, but high-energy physics experiments can cause fleeting cross-over between the planes (I do not understand the details) since de Broglie (IIRC).

It's a huge topic, so I'll stop here, but my contact info is in my bio, and let me wrap with saying that we are not forced to become better or worse in terms of our contribution to the well-being of our fellow human beings and the Earth, itself, but a progression towards becoming utterly compassionate bearers of truth is the entire puspose of the "spiritual path", regardless of which flavor. Do note, please, that the liars of the world lose their ability to discern the truth, as a result of their abandoning compassionate service to humanity, which requires learning and living the truth of compassionate existence through choice.

You can also find a horrific example of what I describe here in the life of the Golden State Killer's, who describes how his being was invaded by an external entity that compelled him to do the awful things he did. The negative impulses we experience have the purpose of making creating unhappiness via the ramifications of our choices, both for ourselves and those around us. If you consider this carefully, you will begin to understand why the world is so polluted, is dangerously heating, and is filled with oppressors and the misery they inflict. It is our widespread ignorance of the truth of our beings that has left us mostly at the mercy of the selfish impulse-stream, instead of the drive to compassionately serve the happiness of others. The important fact is that we can each choose compassion as the basis for our choices, and that there are ways to purify our moral compass to effect a more perfect integration with the greater good.

Note that this is also the only path to personal peace and happiness, because karma is a fundamental law with our human-only moral plane. It is human-only because only we make moral choices in this physical plane. And all our choices affect all other human beings, to some level, and billions of us sure do add up.

yoble• 2 years ago

In Buddhism this is linked to the central concept of Dependent Origination: things arise in dependence on other things, everything is conditioned by something else.

This includes movements of attention: attention is drawn to a sound perception because a frog makes a sound, then conditioned on interest being high interest dwindles, conditioned on that plus nerves shooting in the back a sensation catches the attention, it goes to a thought of planning that appears conditioned on you having a deadline tomorrow...

Even the arising of intention to move the hand arises at that moment conditioned on other things (that include you playing around with your perception a moment ago, pre-existing view around how decision work and wanting to prove it, having a hand...)

Looking for conditionality in everything we might identify with - thoughts, perceptions, intention... - is a central practice in numerous schools of Early Buddhism, and can lead to a deep, deep sense of letting go, inhabiting a flow of things "just unfolding", and classical insights around what our sense of self actually is.

criddell3• 2 years ago

I like to watch the movement of my attention

I've never really liked the present-tense expression of this idea. If you are watching your attention, is that you directing your attention at your attention? Can you step back again and watch yourself watching yourself watch yourself?

Or is it really a past-tense thing where you notice that your attention has drifted?

hammock• 2 years ago

Isn't "watching the movement of my attention" another way of saying "being in the present"? To include body scans, etc.

kranner• 2 years ago

Not GP, but I'll relate my experience. Your attention is always automatically attending to something. You can learn to attend to your attention continually while you're functioning normally in real life. Maintaining this light noticing of what we're noticing, reveals the attitudes of the mind to various objects as we go through our lives. It's a very interesting state to abide in. This is known as the Cittanupassana practice, one of the Vipassana practices described in the Satipatthana Sutta.

desertraven3• 2 years ago

Try it and you tell me! ;)

In answer to your question, it’s hard to explain. But no, I don’t find it possible to step back again and observe that meta process. I just tried.

And it is definitely a present-tense action.

It may be that it is merely as you say, directing attention to attention, but it doesn’t diminish the free-flow experiential aspect of the exercise, or the intellectual curiosity.

Just to flesh out the experience, if I’m not paying attention to my experience, attention is still wandering all over the place, I’m just “in it” so to speak, and not noticing. When I observe it happening it has a very different quality to it.

Not to get esoteric, but the best way I could describe it is that there seems to be some observing faculty seperate to the usual sense of self. Which might explain why the exercise can’t devolve into an endless paying attention to paying attention to paying attention…

lowyek• 2 years ago

It's not very scientific but ->

I feel I am an abstract mesh of "virtual sensory nodes" inside the network of my brain. These nodes are free flowing in the abstract multi-dimensional network - but in varying degrees of freedom. While the inner core of this abstract sensory entity is the "me" I have total perfect grasp on, the outer nodes sway here and there a little bit. When I start meditating - I start to access the information touching these outer sensors. They are by default moving "a little", I just get more aware of them. But I being the core of this entity, can easily sway them to any other place.

I guess meditation is fun.

space_oddity3• 2 years ago

The mystery of intention and attention also invites reflection

MrMcCall8• 2 years ago

Yes, indeed, but a study of the streams of thoughts and feelings that barge into our attention is more obviously fruitful to our improving our personal and collective well-beings. Learning how to discern negative/selfish/callous/viceous impulses from the positive/selfless/compassionate/virtuous ones is at the heart of the meaning of life and the purpose of our mind's abilities, as well as the human race's future.

I can't recommend Castaneda's work, but it does present interesting perspectives on intention and attention, even if I'm not sold that he was an honest or accurate or even well-intentioned narrator. That said, the character of Don Juan conveys much wisdom, but are the books allegorical fiction or fantastical non-ordinary-but-actual reality? I don't know yet, and maybe I never will.

Lanzaa• 2 years ago

Observing where attention is aimed is a form of meditation. What you observed is something I have experienced as well. It is normal and expected.

I have enjoyed reading "The Mind Illuminated" by John Yates. The book is a meditation guide and includes descriptions of experiences like yours.

Yawrehto• 2 years ago

I don't know if it's just me, but it feels like a very deliberate choice that this wasn't written in the easy-to-comprehend, easy-to-grasp style that's so prevalent online. It's harder. It requires, to some degree, even slightly, conscious effort to parse.

It feels like the perfect union of form and content, at least given the constraints of it being online, which by its very nature encourages distractions, flitting from one thing to another, reading many things, comprehending none, constantly switching what we're doing. (I noticed this while reading that - the urge to read something easier, simpler, with more shiny attention-grabbing things. It's the first time I've seriously experimented with Google's reading mode.) But, of course, a print publication, better-suited to the form, would get much less traction.

zoeysmithe• 2 years ago

I think this is the sort of pro-business new age junk "meditate to become better at work" that's purposely dressed up in rhetorical robes, no different than the religion many here have fled.

I mean, this mind stuff doesn't really work if you're mentally ill, chronically stressed, worried about work/bills/relationships, chronically ill, stressed from caring for children/elderly, stressed from war/politics, oppressed, etc and I say that as a two decades long Buddhist practitioner and meditator.

All this wavey-gravy stuff doesn't work without some type of moral framework. When he says "strength" what exactly does he mean? When he says 'life is meant to be this way' how can he possibly defend what life is meant to be? This is just a lot of empty nothings dressed up as important.

What we do know is that we're animals evoloved from other animals that until very recently lived in smaller tribal groups or nomadic settlements, where our society saw innate value in us, had an extended family taking care of us, etc. Our modern life is the opposite of that. We're sort of shoved into the capitalist system, told to figure out a career and often after traumatizing 13+ years of schooling, then thrown into the job market, dealing with the pain of full time work if we can even get a steady good job which a lot of people don't, dealing with a system not invested in us but would love to get rid of us especially if we're costly, different, queer, minority, old, 'not competitive', not a good 'culture fit', neurodivergent, etc.

So what do these essays really do? Not much. You will never revisit it. You will never bother because why? It doesnt fit your ethics or philosophy. Its empty pablum. Now if you built out values and said, "Productivity and business norms, as we know it, is actually bad and that's the cause of much of this pain, and we should be building frameworks, businesses, governments, and social norms to encourage downtime, rest, meditation-like activities, etc." Then yes, go for it, but be warned this will take you down a path where you'll be attacked for it for being anti-capitalist or socialist or whatever. Your friends, relatives, coworkers, etc you saw on your side will fight you. Your political party will label you a dangerous radical. So instead we get "just try to think like a zen buddhist to finish your TPS reports," junk like this, that very much ignores the elephant in the room. The world is on fire, its perfectly normal to feel stressed at that. Your stress is often valid and comes from a valid place.

So like you said, its written in this 'spiritual master' kind of way to give it gravitas it doesn't deserve, to make it seems more important than it is, and to fool people into thinking they're the problem and their lack of "mind mastery" is the problem, instead of the system that causes all this pain. Why are you so worried, those are valid worries! Why do you rush through things? You're not given enough time! Why are you dealing with trauma and burnout? Because that's what our system leads to, especially for skill workers and other types of workers weighed heavily on productivity.

"Mind mastery," is the new 'stiff upper lip' or 'skill issue' or 'quit complaining.' That is to say, its the new con to keep the status quo working as-is to benefit the few. You should be complaining and advocating for change that allows you more downtime, rest, "detigering" yourself, and such so that "mind mastery" isn't this ridiculous task but something that can start coming easier for us because we are then given the resources, time, cultural norms, and buy-in to achieve it. Look at how many retired people get into things like time in nature, slow burn experiences, writing novels, making art, meditation, contemplation, spirituality, a slow lifestyle, etc when before they are rushed and stressed 24/7. When we give people room, they will naturally gravitate towards stuff like this. We should be giving more room to the workers who haven't retired because they want this too and they won't get it via flowery essays, but via downtown, less work hours, better workplaces, better benefits, more social buy-in, more regulation that benefit the working class, valuing low stress and slower lifestyles, investment in mental health resources, medicine access for all, longer vacations, guaranteed long maternity/paternity, etc.

If you're denied many of these thing all the 'mind mastery' junk in the world doesn't work. You'll just float between guys like this, books from Buddhists, books from Stoics, Sun Tzu, Toaism, New Age, secular humanism, theraputic models, various psychiatric drugs, etc and none of it will really work because the system isn't giving you the space and resources to actually become a "mind master" or whatever you want to call it. In fact, being a "mind master" may be a fool's errand, at least past a certain level of practicing meditation. Sad things are supposed to make us sad, hard things should stress us, vulnerable things should be said and respected for being said, etc. Being "above it all with no feeling" is a ridiculous maladaption to a harmful system.

Yes, meditation and mindfulness are nice but they're a bandaid, and a lot of people, I'd say 99% of us, don't need bandaids we need surgery, that is to say, the system is injuring us faster than we can heal and at that point, the path to actual healing, having a relaxed mind, etc is systemic change, not these little essays that say very little, if anything, of substance. This is why people float from new age stuff and self-help stuff and back and forth and back and forth with new 'gurus' and 'truth tellers' and such discovered and discarded their whole lives and never get relief. This stuff doesn't work because their boats are filling with water faster than they can empty it. No flowery prose changes that reality.

So if your skeptical meter is going off, this is probably why, and you're valid to question these narratives and their presentation.

adamc4• 2 years ago

I think a lot of us find value in mindfulness. I don't think that value is new; modern age or no, people have been using these techniques for a long time.

I agree with some of what you say, although I think it idealizes the past more than it deserves. My mother fled small town America exactly because it was intrusive and allowed very little divergence from small-town values. The embrace and care came with a price tag.

Being a human has always been hard. Peasants struggled with material scarcity, a system that was brutally unfair, and very constraining social expectations.

And I have suffered from depression, particularly post-divorce. I know what it is like. Mindfulness won't eliminate that, but it does help, and it's far more than a band-aid. Mindfulness is, in many ways, clarifying your thoughts... realizing that you have have a tape loop repeating things that don't seem useful or related to the circumstance. Seeing that your emotional weather comes and goes. We don't escape the weather, but to be aware of it allows us to better account for it in our thinking.

assadk• 2 years ago

pdr94• 2 years ago

Just as the author suggests observing the mind's patterns without judgment, we often begin debugging by simply watching the system's behavior, setting breakpoints, and logging outputs. This initial observation phase is crucial for understanding the underlying architecture before making any changes.

CompoundEyes• 2 years ago

I have clinical OCD. The actual version not the thing people joke about. I will say because of that I am an expert on living in the moment. Why? Because when it flares up the compulsions result in a battle with attention on your thoughts second by second and wishing to be focused intently on something else so that level of attention has no space to enter. Might sound fun for a vacation but not a place to live. That’s why I’m a software engineer because I can get lost in something and reacquaint my mind with a baseline of attention to attention.

If you want to truly slow time down and live in the moment exercise incredibly hard. Something like a grueling CrossFit workout can make it feel like ten minutes never took so long. Time slows down when each second is exhausting mental and physical anguish to keep your legs pedaling on an assault bike. I love it!

navigate8310• 2 years ago

Related to this topic is DṚG-DṚŚYA-VIVEKA, which inquiries about the ontological aspects of the mind.

pvsk10• 2 years ago

This article is only scratching the surface of a much deeper path. I highly recommend the book "Awake: It's Your Turn" by Angelo DiLullo

gzer0• 2 years ago

This was written beautifully. I needed to read something like this in a moment of pain I am going through. Thank you.

photochemsyn• 2 years ago

Situational awareness matters when it comes to claims like this:

"It is tempting, in moments of ambition, to think that we must change everything all at once, that the path to mastery or peace requires a sudden, dramatic shift. But this is rarely the case. In truth, most lasting changes come from small, deliberate actions."

For people trapped in abusive relationships, drug addiction, or unsustainable economic positions, this is terrible advice - a dramatic shift is precisely what is needed. For those in stable situations where improvement by increment is entirely possible, this is great advice. The challenge lies in figuring out which is which.

norshgaath• 2 years ago

Hmm, reminds me of Krishnamurti teachings

douglee650• 2 years ago

Improved readability greatly by adding this css to the desktop version

```

background-color: white;

color: #444342;

padding: 16rem;

```

TaurenHunter• 2 years ago

The author seems to have drawn from

- Buddhism's mindfulness

- Taoism's natural flow/simplicity

- Stoicism's control of own's mind

- Mindfulness teachings from Jon Kabat-Zinn and/or Thich Nhaat Hanh

- Cognitive Behavioral Techniques

- Mihaly Csikszentmihalyi's flow states

- Literature/poetry from Henry Thoreau and Ralph Waldo Emerson

bilater• 2 years ago

Good content but damn I hate when HN users throw out ugly looking sites like this. You can add this to the body tag in the console to make it nicer

RedNifre• 2 years ago

Have you tried reader mode? Firefox' works perfect for this website.

firemelt• 2 years ago

where to read more, post article like this?

indigodaddy• 2 years ago

Some good related ideas here: https://kirpalsingh-mission.org/uom/en/library/sant-kirpal-s...

FacelessJim• 2 years ago

This is something that I have always strived for, and try to practice every living moment. You put in clearer and more detailed words what I have been trying to develop by myself.

I will be forever grateful for the time I spent practicing martial arts when I was younger. I was lucky enough to find a master that did not teach the practice as a means to reach agonistic goals but instead as practicing mindfulness and self observation. It was never explicitly told or explained in detail how to do it, it was simply practiced over and over again, indirectly, by checking the positions of your body, legs and arms, are they in the correct position? Am I engaging the correct set of muscles? Does the position feel powerful? Is my attention (ki) flowing in the correct direction, in the right spot? Am I aware of my surroundings and perceptive of my practice partner? We were slowly taught to pay attention, by means of watching ourselves trying to perfect something. Later in life I realized how much of an impact this had on my ability to concentrate, be present, not only in the physical sphere but also in the mental and spiritual or emotional sphere. I slowly began to realize that the real practice of the martial art and striving for the perfect form were always a mean to the real goal of instead practicing mindfulness and perseverence.

To me that is the “art” in martial arts. I am not trying to put them on a pedestal, I believe that this “art” is proper of any activity a human can do, that can become art when it is a means to practice this kind of mindfulness.

space_oddity3• 2 years ago

It's inspiring to hear how your martial arts training shaped your mindfulness

soheil• 2 years ago

First thought, the person who wrote this seems to be showing strong signs of ADHD.

step by step... Just as a mountain is climbed not in great leaps but in steady, measured steps

Umm, why does it need to be like a mountain climber and not a multi-core GPU with parallel processing? In fact when thinking about a difficult problem it's best to abandon a narrow incremental way of thinking for a much wider holistic one.

It asks that we slow down, that we look more closely

What if not all brains are equal and some can move leaps and bounds where others are just able to barely scratch the surface?

This process of simplification is not an escape from complexity. It is, in fact, a way of engaging with it more meaningfully.

No, pretty sure it is an escape from complexity and it doesn't make it not so just because you added that sentence. You are saying cut down the stuff that goes on in your brain at any given instance, you have two choices to do that a. speed up your thinking b. reduce the number of things going on. You certainly did not advocate for a so b it is.

It is tempting, in moments of ambition, to think that we must change everything all at once, that the path to mastery or peace requires a sudden, dramatic shift. But this is rarely the case. In truth, most lasting changes come from small, deliberate actions.

I like this bit and I think clarity does come from deliberate actions. But again very much sounds like something that someone with ADHD would say.

This is not about control in the traditional sense, but about clarity. To act, not from reflex, but from intent.

That sounds like control to me, to act from intent means you are in the driver's seat and not a merely reactionary passenger. Yup I know there is stigma against control and more so in recent times, but in essence you're saying control without actually saying it because of the fear of negative associations with that word.

space_oddity3• 2 years ago

The notion that this process is gradual, built on small, deliberate actions, resonates deeply

aanet• 2 years ago

Lovely writing, beautiful prose, and more importantly, very cogently argued for a more meditative, attentive life.

The thoughts expressed aren't entirely new; indeed Buddhism has been teaching this for millennia (or two). But, good to read this now and then to be reminded of a more deliberate, slow(er) and intent-ful life.

Kudos! <3

rammy1234• 2 years ago

Focus , one I am struggling with recently, central theme and I read this at right time. Thank you for writing this

chiefrubberduck• 2 years ago

if you lost your wealth, you have lost nothing

if you lost your health, you have lost something

if you lost your peace, you have lost everything

sp3000• 2 years ago

Fantastic writing. I recently did a yoga / meditation retreat (Inner Engineering by Sadhguru) that helps develop this and I find it immensely helpful. I always had trouble knowing how or where to begin, despite reading and knowing so much about the benefits. Inner Engineering gave me structure and insights, and after only practicing it for a week, I have experienced significant changes already.

danjc• 2 years ago

Attention is all you need

cainxinth• 2 years ago

And it is then, perhaps, that a subtle truth begins to emerge: the only thing we truly possess, the only thing we might, with enough care, exert some mastery over, is our mind.

This essay is taking a philosophical tack, but what came to my mind was a practical reality of my favorite hobby: road cycling.

You can wear all the safety gear, cover your bike in flashing lights and your body in high vis, but the only thing really keeping you safe is your own focus on the road and the other vehicles.

billwear7• 2 years ago

good advice on the site CSS, meeting you halfway (black on white is too stark for my eyes, as it is for many people)

eeik• 2 years ago

This article aims not for readers to merely absorb information; it's about experiencing the process of paying attention, which ties directly into the message. The style embodies the substance. The deliberate pacing, repetition, and reflective tone mirror the very practice it's encouraging. The text invites the reader to slow down, pay attention to each concept, and let them unfold naturally, step by step—much like how the author advises living life.

Similar to knolling, it methodically arranges ideas and concepts in an orderly way, encouraging the reader to appreciate each in its own space. The writing is intentionally uncluttered, asking the reader to focus on the essentials, without rushing through or trying to grasp everything at once.

The writing itself serves as an exercise in mindfulness, requiring the reader to approach it with the same careful attention that the author advocates for in life.

The quiet art of attention

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