How I replaced deadly garage door torsion springs (2002)

https://www.truetex.com/garage.htm

by bronzekaiser • 2 years ago

258 329 2 years ago

superkuh• 2 years ago

What an incredible web page design. It loads and paints instantly on any browser in existence and reflows faster than any site I've seen. The content is front and center and there's a ton of it. This is what peak website performance looks like.

martinky24• 2 years ago

Yeah but how will I get ~customized ads~ served to me? What if big-ad-tech doesn't know I'm tangentially interested in garage door opener content??

abracadaniel• 2 years ago

You will miss out on having your YouTube feed filled with garage door videos for the next 3 years as well.

gear54rus• 2 years ago

randomly changing content width and slapping random tables where they don't belong doesn't do it for me, sorry

xnx• 2 years ago

Still too much design. The centering is unnecessary.

JKCalhoun3• 2 years ago

Ha ha, and the compression artifacts on the images: how you know it's gonna load fast.

suddenclarity• 2 years ago

Not sure if satire. It's a terrible user experience for me. For future readers:

https://motherfuckingwebsite.com

http://bettermotherfuckingwebsite.com

https://perfectmotherfuckingwebsite.com

wackget• 2 years ago

Is there something I'm missing? A quick search of YouTube reveals tons of garage door spring replacement videos. It doesn't seem like the knowledge or parts are difficult to obtain.

TheGRS2• 2 years ago

Its widely known as one of the most dangerous DIYs you can do. I think typically people working on them will get pushed off their ladder suddenly from the tension in the spring releasing.

JKCalhoun3• 2 years ago

I worry more about a steel bar being thrown out with ample centrifugal force or coming around and taking a whack at your jaw.

derekp72• 2 years ago

Happened in my family a number of years ago. The instructions said to crank the spring 7 1/4 turns. So it was really make a 1/4 turn, repeat 7 times. Not 7 full turns plus 1/4 additional.

After pulling the vice grips off, the door shot up with such force that it knocked the ladder over, causing a broken collar bone in the process.

8organicbits• 2 years ago

If you've researched this subject at all, you will no doubt have heard that you shouldn't be attempting torsion spring replacement as a do-it-yourselfer.

bluGill• 2 years ago

There are several different springs, some are more dangerious than others. It isn't hard to safely replace any spring. However it isn't always obvious what is safe or unsafe and mistakes can kill.

glasss• 2 years ago

Probably the year this was published, the blog said the first version was in posted in 2002

mhuffman• 2 years ago

I suspect that a lot or all of those videos are about "extension spring" replacements and not "torsion spring" replacements. Probably shouldn't do either, but the torsion ones can have instant and catastrophic failure modes during installation or removal.

fencepost• 2 years ago

The page in question predates the founding of YouTube by ~3 years. It's in the middle of the Geocities time period, back when video distribution on the Internet was probably via Usenet and digital photography was probably on a Sony Mavica writing to floppy disks - or maybe to compact CDR if you were lucky.

camtarn• 2 years ago

Sort of. It was a different world, but not quite that different!

Geocities was really dying by 2002. It had been bought by Yahoo! a few years previously, and they were intent on driving it into the ground.

Video distribution was indeed fairly rare, but Flash sites were very widespread, sometimes including video, but more often vector animations.

The Mavica was still around in 2002, although mostly in CD-R form. But cameras taking flash memory cards were also around, using a wild mix of CompactFlash, SmartMedia, Memory Stick, xD-Picture Card and MMC. SD had just been invented, and a year or so later I had my own cheap digital camera that took SD cards.

14• 2 years ago

yes this is one of those things that is scaring people but if you pay $500 some other guy can magically do it for you. The fact is that it is not that hard of a job and the dangers can easily be mitigated if you have some basic common sense and knowledge. Unfortunetly common sense is not that common and many people have been hurt doing this job. I myself would not hesitate to do this job like you say lots of information now days on how to do it this site is 22 years old in this post so now days you can see exactly what to do in many videos way before even attempting the job and that alone can take away most of the risk since you get hand held the entire process. I have to say I am a little disappointed in the HN crowd at how shy they are to do this job. All the handy men that do this job now are just humans like you and me and they all had to learn from scratch at some point. Again this is not that hard or dangerous but like the article says it has by shrouded in stories of danger and the trades people would not share their knowledge but told everyone how dangerous it would be so pay them money.

levocardia• 2 years ago

I had a teacher in high school who was blinded (I think only in one eye) trying to do this repair. You could not pay me enough money to do this repair.

This work is risky, but the risk is comparable to doing your own car repairs, or climbing on the roof of your house to clean your gutters.

Notably, "unintentional fall" is the #1 cause of emergency department visits for adults [1], which is why I'd hire a professional to work on my roof too (and wince when they don't wear safety equipment). I'm not sure where "crushed by your own car" falls on the list, but while I'm perfectly comfortable digging around in the engine bay, you also could not pay me enough to crawl around under a poorly jacked-up car.

1. https://wisqars.cdc.gov/lcnf/

JKCalhoun3• 2 years ago

Yeah, I'm a DIY'er and I noped-out of this one too.

linsomniac4• 2 years ago

Ditto, but after he charged me $550 it and used bars rather than a worm-drive "winder", I'm thinking that next time I'm going to either get a winder and do it myself (parts were sub $100) or at least get 3 quotes. I went with someone a friend liked, so I didn't do any shopping around, mea culpa. But, I guess he had to pay for his brand new F-250 somehow. :-)

I was half expecting him to say I needed other maintenance including new rollers, at which point I was going to call BS, because I replaced those rollers a couple three years ago and I'm about a million uses away from their rated million open/closes. Double sealed ball bearings, ask for them by name.

the__alchemist3• 2 years ago

Thank you. I agree on all examples. Absolutely not worth the risk. Not even close. I wince thinking about when I changed my own oil in my 20s... Potentially throwing away so many good years, for so little gain. The car danger can be mitigated if the work is done under a professional lift.

cityofdelusion• 2 years ago

There is pretty much zero risk if the car is either jacked correctly or put on ramps correctly. Dummies that rely on a single 1.5mm o-ring not blowing out on their hydraulic floor jacks are gambling with their life. Always operate on flat terrain, always chock the wheels, always use the parking brake, always use jack stands, always verify no movement in the vehicle by rocking it, never rely on the floor jack.

giantg23• 2 years ago

"Potentially throwing away so many good years, for so little gain. The car danger can be mitigated if the work is done under a professional lift."

I use ramps I built - solid 2x12. Those are extremely safe as there's nothing that can break, bend, or disintegrate. It's way more dangerous to drive than to work on the vehicle.

YeBanKo2• 2 years ago

Potentially throwing away so many good years

How much time did you spend changing oil?? It's a 20-30 min job once you have done it coupe of time and know the ropes. I sometimes do it myself not because I want to save few bucks, but because it's sometimes faster than going somewhere.

sokoloff8• 2 years ago

I do my oil changes top-side now, using an air-powered Mityvac (MV7300; no affiliation).

That's the factory-recommended procedure for several brands now and works well on my Mercedes and Honda. I was skeptical at first, but did the extraction and then removed the drain plug and the oil I got from the bottom wouldn't have half-filled a shot glass, so that's good enough for me.

As long as the filter is accessible from the top or side, I don't see the need to jack up most wet-sump cars (which is almost all of them).

supportengineer• 2 years ago

I started changing my own oil when I was 16. We only used ramps, never jacks.

paradox460• 2 years ago

I bought an oil/fluid extractor off Amazon. It's basically a bicycle pump sized tank, with a long hose you stuff down the dipstick hole. You then pump the unit up, which creates a vacuum, and pulls the oil up and out of the car. Takes about 5 minutes to get 5 quarts out, and then you just refill, pour the used oil into the now empty bottles the new oil came in, and take it to your oil recycling center

giantg23• 2 years ago

"Notably, "unintentional fall" is the #1 cause of emergency department visits for adults"

Most of these are not from DIY, but age realted

sbelskie• 2 years ago

How is it age related if it is the number one cause for all ages? Am I misreading the chart?

michaelt• 2 years ago

Among the workplace population, if you look at fatal workplace accidents [1] you'll find that falls are the second-most-common cause of death (deaths on the road are the most common)

Construction workers have the second-highest number of workplace deaths (transportation workers are the highest) and among construction workers, falls are the most common cause of death.

Transport and construction are second and third in fatalities per worker-hour, with 'farming, fishing and forestry' the most dangerous per worker-hour.

So ladders aren't the most dangerous thing out there - but falls are pretty near the top of the list when it comes to workplace deaths.

That's not to say people can't use ladders safely - just if you're hauling a heavy ass drill up a ladder and it's stopping you using both hands, the cable's flapping around your legs, your pockets are full of sharp pointy tools, and it's raining - maybe think twice :)

[1] https://www.bls.gov/news.release/pdf/cfoi.pdf

cj• 2 years ago

My father is a handyman for multiple large apartment buildings.

Climbing onto a roof and changing garage springs are 2 things he says he'll never do. I was surprised how specific he was about it.

He knows lots of other handymen so I'm guessing he has heard lots of horror stories. Garage springs are no joke.

shiroiushi5• 2 years ago

I've changed garage door springs myself; it was pretty easy. However, there are different types. The torsion ones are the scary ones, and I wouldn't touch those either.

Other (generally older) doors have longitudinal springs. When the door is open, the spring is uncompressed, and very easy to change. Just make sure to block the door so it can't close while you're working, and install the safety wire (it goes through the spring so if they spring breaks, it doesn't hit something).

Modern doors usually don't have this kind because they take up space in the garage. The torsion kind are on top of the door and stay out of the way.

Scoundreller6• 2 years ago

you also could not pay me enough to crawl around under a poorly jacked-up car.

Indeed, but it’s not difficult to set yourself up with multiple failsafes.

By the time I’m set up to get underneath a car, I’m in a safer situation than driving the car given how many things would have to go wrong for the car to fall on me.

WalterBright3• 2 years ago

I use truck stands that will hold up several times the weight of the car. After I put it on the stands, I also give it several hard shoves to make sure it is secure.

HeyLaughingBoy• 2 years ago

Right? One of my garage door lifting cables broke, and although I knew how to replace it, the $150 or so that it cost to have an actual professional fix it was money well spent.

I've done car repairs for decades, and climbed up on roofs when I had to, but I'm not dicking around with garage door springs.

grepfru_it• 2 years ago

It’s not that it’s a hard job, the labor cost comes in at around $100-$150/hr as you said. It takes about an hour to do.. But why am I going to do this when my time could be better spent elsewhere?

Saving $1000 tiling your shower? That makes sense. Saving $100 and potentially maim yourself in the process? Hello garage door repairman.

nullhole• 2 years ago

I knew someone in high school who had started work at an auto repair place, and he described the process - and danger - of replacing car springs to me once.

I'm sure there are various types of car spring, the kind he was talking about was the stereotypical coil-of-metal spring. There's so much energy in there that a small slip up can be deadly.

rootusrootus3• 2 years ago

It used to be worse. Lots of cars today use a coil-over-strut design that captures the spring. There's still a lot of energy, but it's much easier to manage safely, by the time the nut at the top runs out of threads there's generally little to no force left in the spring.

Way back (like... 30 years ago) when I was working on my Mustang, the spring was separate from the strut. You had to drop the control arm enough to unload it and remove it, and there wasn't anything to contain it. I always tied it with a chain or a seat belt, and tried to not be directly in front of it during the unloading process. I knew a kid who got hit in the chest by a spring popping out; he did not make it. Removing it or installing a new one were both quite dangerous for the careless.

willcipriano• 2 years ago

Looks like you have to use a bolt to deload, replace and then load a spring. With the risk being you overload it and it snaps in your face?

A chainsaw is scarier to me.

timschmidt• 2 years ago

Battery electric chainsaws are a game changer. I have a little 20v 12 inch that I've felled and limbed 2ft thick trees with. Doesn't jump around, stops the moment you let go of the trigger, isn't noisy or hot. Still have to respect it, but it's a much tamer beast than the two cycle monsters of yore.

lttlrck• 2 years ago

When my spring broke I called a someone local (maybe via Yelp), he came out within 30 minutes, replaced it in 20 and charged me $75. This was only a couple of years ago.

Likewise with brake fluid changes. I can do it, but the risk/hassle just ain't worth it for the cost of a pro.

pard68• 2 years ago

What are the risks of changing brakes? Never thought of that as a particularly risky endeavor before.

shiroiushi5• 2 years ago

After seeing the quality of work of "pros" with simple oil changes, I wouldn't trust one of them to properly change and bleed brake fluid, unless I was very familiar with their work.

j-a-a-p3• 2 years ago

I never replace the brake fluid. I do flush each caliper when changing summer and winter tyres. This means a selected offspring presses the brake twice for every tyre and the caliper has fresh fluid in it.

The fluid only degrades in the caliper, no need to replace it entirely, and no need for a computer when you do it like I described it.

amluto2• 2 years ago

I don’t understand why it’s even considered safe to have one of these springs in one’s garage without a solid shield of some sort. While the energy involved is small on the scale of energy storage devices (<1 kJ or about 1 Wh if you believe the article), the speed at which it can release makes it quite dangerous. Your cell phone has a bigger battery than this! But your cell phone battery can’t discharge in a couple milliseconds.

Which brings to mind some rather different designs. A rather small motor with a lot of mechanical advantage can easily open a close a garage door, and if a DC or low voltage AC motor is used, it could do so quite a few times even if the power goes out.

You can even buy off-the-shelf springless garage door systems!

(I’m honestly not sure why springs are common at all in this application. IIRC I grew up with a garage door driven via a motor with a worm gear that engaged with a long threaded shaft, and there were nonetheless a pair of springs. Surely the added cost of a better motor and some upgraded mounting hardware for the motor box would have been less than the cost of those springs, especially installed. Maybe these designs are all essentially unchanged from decades ago when a ~100W (shaft) motor that could operate at a controlled speed even under negative load would have been exotic and expensive?)

imoverclocked• 2 years ago

A rather small motor with a lot of mechanical advantage can easily open a close a garage door, and if a DC or low voltage AC motor is used, it could do so quite a few times even if the power goes out.

Garage doors are actually fairly heavy. By balancing the weight with a spring, you do a lot of favors to your mechanical advantage systems. (Eg: less wear, less advantage needed, the door can open in a reasonable amount of time…) You also do yourself a few favors for when things fail. (Eg: you pull the safety release and it’s possible to open the door without the motor.) Finally, power isn’t free and motors aren’t either; A spring is a really cheap way to reduce the cost of both of these things.

kelnos• 2 years ago

If the garage door opener breaks, or the power is out, many people might have a really tough time opening the door manually without those springs. They might not be able to even do it at all.

It is still, of course, a valid question to ask if it's worth having dangerous springs up there all the time for the rare event of the opener being inoperative.

Or maybe we just shouldn't have doors that are that heavy?

itsgrimetime• 2 years ago

I’m not an expert in how springs break but wouldn’t an ejection of material require the spring breaking in at least 2 places that are close enough to not loop around the rod? I’m curious if anyone’s ever been hurt by one breaking (other than when actively working on it).

sokoloff8• 2 years ago

I don’t understand why it’s even considered safe to have one of these springs in one’s garage without a solid shield of some sort.

The shield is the steel tube that runs down the middle of the spring. When the spring breaks, it's got an integral safety containment, similar to the aircraft cable that is often run through extension style springs (which are probably far more dangerous when they break, though less dangerous to service).

I’m honestly not sure why springs are common at all in this application.

They're nicely matched to the load profile of the door. As the door is fully closed, the spring is exerting maximum upward force. As sections of the door transition to the horizontal track, the spring is simultaneously relaxing some, meaning it exerts around half the force when the door is halfway up and very little force as the last segment hits the turn in the track. It's a pretty elegant match of mechanism to the load profile.

jakogut2• 2 years ago

I’m honestly not sure why springs are common at all in this application.

Properly adjusted springs effectively cancel out the weight of the door. This makes it easy to open and close with and without an opener, and greatly limits the danger of a door falling closed under it's own weight, which can seriously hurt someone.

mnw21cam4• 2 years ago

I recently accidentally drained the battery on my car while I was fixing unrelated stuff on the door (and therefore had the door open for 3 hours). I bought a "jumpstarter kit" which is basically a 12000mAh LiIon battery (3.7V) and some electronics. It's just a little bigger than a large mobile phone, but you clip it to the car battery and it's capable of providing 12V at 600A to turn the starter motor for up to 5 seconds. That's 7.2kW from a shockingly small device. I treated it with all due respect.

tlb• 2 years ago

It’s usually a requirement that, in an emergency, you can disconnect the electric opener and open it by hand. Certainly if there’s no second door to the garage, this seems essential or you’d be trapped if power or anything in the opener fails. Springs make this possible.

83• 2 years ago

The spring counteracts the weight of the door. In the event of motor or electricity failure a well adjusted spring/door will be easy to manually open. A direct drive/worm gear would require an uncoupling mechanism and the ability to lift the full weight of the garage door overhead to get out.

Attention is required when changing these, but they really don't pose that great of a risk. I've been present when one broke, and I've changed them myself. As noted by others - the spring stays contained by the metal shaft. They really aren't worth substituting with something that has more drawbacks when a spring's lifespan is on the order of decades.

epcoa• 2 years ago

Notably, "unintentional fall" is the #1 cause of emergency department visits for adults [1]

The vast majority of those are the mundane falling down the stairs or the elderly in bathtubs, not anything to do with roofs.

mnw21cam4• 2 years ago

But also "unintentional fall" from roofs is the reason that solar power has more deaths per energy produced than nuclear power.

batch12• 2 years ago

Notably, "unintentional fall" is the #1 cause of emergency department visits for adults

Yes. Until it happens to you, it seems like someone else's problem. I say this as someone who found himself staring at the sky with a concussion and whiplash after the ladder decided to walk out from under me on my concrete walkway. (I'll admit that it was probably my error, but I'll never really know since the ladder took a trip too). Now all trips up the ladder are treated with the gravity my younger self disregarded.

I'll add that it's very disconcerting to be unable to move or breathe as everything fades out...

smeej• 2 years ago

I have a scar on one hand that I call my "Get down and move the damn ladder" reminder scar. Five of the inches have faded, but there's still one, bright, keloid spot at the base of my right thumb that stares right down at me every time I start to reach for something and think, "This would really be easier if I got down and moved the ladder."

jakogut2• 2 years ago

you also could not pay me enough to crawl around under a poorly jacked-up car

Absolutely, I agree. However, like any work, there's a safe way and a million unsafe ways to perform it. Crawling under a car on a jack is unsafe. Crawling under a car properly supported by jack stands is perfectly safe.

I replaced my own garage doors, not just because of the cost, but also because I could not find a contractor to do it inside of four months. I did my research, took my time, and got two 9x7' doors replaced in a weekend and a half at a leisurely pace for a third of the quotes I received from the pros.

The FUD spread online around garage doors is unreal.

If you don't know how to do it safely, don't attempt it. If you can spend a few hours learning how to do things properly and safely, go for it. It's not black magic. Garage door installers are people too, and it's not like the training is some dark arts ritual imbued upon them by shadowy figures. It's basic physics, geometry, and hand tools.

mattmaroon• 2 years ago

One of my friends attempted this repair and smashed his hand so badly that the doctor told him it might not be functional ever again. It did mostly recover, but still. NFW am I working on this and the tech can have my $300 once every 15 years.

bookofjoe• 2 years ago

The problem is that you won't know it was poorly jacked-up until it's too late.

eternityforest3• 2 years ago

It's amazing how comfortable people are with stored potential energy... I do not like powerful springs and bungee cords and the like.

But plenty of people are fine with roofs and springs but terrified of electricity

tmaly3• 2 years ago

I have had to replace mine before.

I was sitting in the family room. Big slam sound. I go out and check the garage and one of the springs had broke.

It is really not a big deal to switch them out.

ianschmitz2• 2 years ago

Oof. Just because you did it yourself does not mean it wasn’t extremely dangerous, or that the average home owner should attempt it. There’s an incredible amount of energy stored in those springs when wound up

tmaly3• 2 years ago

I am not talking about wound up springs. This is a simple spring you usually see in pairs, one on each side of the garage door.

Knufferlbert• 2 years ago

That is a very weird take to me. That big slam presumably is the spring breaking, a lot of energy released at once in a rather uncontrolled fashion. The same energy will be released if you make a mistake installing it or the spring is faulty for whatever reason while you are standing right next to it.

My take away is that it's to dangerous to do.

tmaly3• 2 years ago

If you take the weight off the spring so it is limp, and you secure the door, this removes the danger.

happytoexplain2• 2 years ago

It is absolutely a big deal.

imperialdrive• 2 years ago

It's not that big a deal if you're someone that considers getting on a 6+ foot ladder not a big deal, or changing your own oil, or going to a shooting range with a rifle, or I guess driving a big rental truck. It REALLY helps to watching someone do it in person the first time, like a handy neighbor or something. Definitely error on the side of calling a pro than doing yourself unless you can easily do a couple pull ups or lift a 50lb weight. Definitely ensure the rods you use fit snugly. It's super satisfying to get the job done though.

MarkusWandel2• 2 years ago

I did one on the "do it with the spring relaxed and the door up" plan. The door isn't that heavy, you can just lift it with your hand to help the opener lift it up, and done. But cramped!! Getting the lift cable nicely wound on the lift pulley, giving it a bit of preload (pull) and getting it attached to the bottom of the door, all with the raised door in the way, and doing both sides, let's just say my supply of swear words was severely depleted by the end. But I did get it done, and no dangerous forces were involved.

Whereas I saw a professional do it in about 5 minutes flat on the "wind the spring and block it and then hook everything up with the door down" plan. But that can kill you if you do it wrong.

WesleyJohnson• 2 years ago

16' x 7' metal garage doors are like 150lbs or more. Maybe I'm a weak old man, but I wouldn't say that "isn't that heavy".

MarkusWandel2• 2 years ago

Mine is 8', uninsulated, and lifting was with the aid of the opener (which stalled without help, with the broken spring).

yard2010• 2 years ago

This reminded me of so many childhood memories with my dad..

toomuchtodo• 2 years ago

I do not recommend DIYing this work, but I do recommend springing for the high cycle (20k cycles) torsion springs if offered by your installer (TLDR larger wire size and a few inches longer to optimize for longevity). They are a bit more in material cost, but will save you labor costs, which will only go up in the future. Also, depending on your living arrangement and situation, an unexpected spring failure can be annoying AF if you can't get vehicles in and out of the structure.

ianschmitz2• 2 years ago

I recently had mine serviced and the spring I have is original (~30 years old) and looking a little old. I asked the installer if I should replace it and he said “no. They don’t make them like they used to. They don’t last nearly as long. Wait until this one gives up”

MiguelHudnandez• 2 years ago

I was hoping this was going to be a new technology making these springs obsolete.

shiftpgdn• 2 years ago

I don't entirely understand why you can't just have a motor move the door for newer aluminum doors. They aren't that heavy.

jtriangle2• 2 years ago

Because if someone needs to open the door and the power's out, or the motor has failed, many people won't be able to do it.

That might be acceptable day-to-day, but, if opening the door is what's required to escape, say, a house fire, it's very much not acceptable.

ok123456• 2 years ago

They do. My gym has a garage door like this. Because of the lack of springs, I didn't realize it had a door opener until the owner went to lower it.

birken• 2 years ago

Coincidentally I just had a professionally done garage door spring replacement today, and I asked the repairman this question, and here is what he said:

1. The springs lift the door from the bottom, and from each side, which puts less load on the door itself as compared to if the entire weight were being lifted from the top middle every time.

2. The motors can be smaller, quieter and use less power

3. In case of power failure, the door is much more functional and safer the less apparently weight it has.

Also the springs themselves are very unlikely to be dangerous (as long as you don't try to replace them yourself), because he said they almost always break when the door is at the closed state, because that is when they are under the most tension. Therefore on the whole, the springs in practice offer no practical safety risk, while greatly increasing the safety of the door in it's normal operation while also reducing wear and tear on the door. They also allow people to have heavier types of doors if they want them.

ajb3• 2 years ago

The alternative is counterweights. Not exactly new, but there looks like there is enough space for them in this case. The ones in the house I grew up in were a pair of concrete cylinders on either side of the door, maybe 10-15 cm in radius and 1m in length, mounted vertically. Not sure why they're not more common - seemed a completely reliable system.

derekp72• 2 years ago

The door needs less counter weight as it goes up. In order for weights to work you either need several weights, with different weights bottoming out as the door rises. Or have the cable on a spiral pulley may work.

scotty792• 2 years ago

Some gas piston would be cool.

neilv• 2 years ago

This work is risky, but the risk is comparable to doing your own car repairs, or climbing on the roof of your house to clean your gutters.

I wonder what the net impact of an article like this is:

* How much money is saved by garage door owners?

* How much money is lost by professionals?

* How many people are injured/killed because this article made them think this was doable at acceptable risk, when they otherwise wouldn't have attempted it?

* How many people would've attempted it anyway, and would've been injured, but this article helped them not to be injured?

Modern bonus:

* How many people are injured because a YouTube/TikTok/etc. DIY influencer is informed by this article, makes a YouTube video that muddies the information, and people are inspired by the influencer video to attempt it?

mildchalupa3• 2 years ago

Life's dangerous.

linsomniac4• 2 years ago

Nobody seems to mention keeping the springs lubed for longevity. What's the groups thinking on that? I keep a spray bottle of lube by the door and shoot it every few months, which is probably overkill, but it's so easy. Then just wipe off the excess and grime maybe yearly.

zdragnar• 2 years ago

Might help with corrosion, too. My grandfather had a very old garage door and opener, and one day something gave and it blew apart. It sounded very much like a shotgun had been fired inside the garage.

Fortunately, nobody was in or near the garage when it happened, but I'll remember it every time "garage door spring" comes up in conversation.

ToucanLoucan2• 2 years ago

We had a corroded one that still functioned but I finally buckled under the RACKET the thing made every time the door opened and closed and got it replaced anyway.

Every single time you opened or closed it, it sounded like a goddamn car crash going on out front. Ugh.

bumby3• 2 years ago

At least according to the article, the main failure mode is fatiguing, so I’m not sure lube would help with that, unless the corrosion is really bad. Most materials have a finite amount of cycles in them (although I’m a bit skeptical of the authors 7 year estimate…it seems low to me)

linsomniac4• 2 years ago

Doesn't the rubbing of the coils against each other contribute to fatigue?

mildchalupa3• 2 years ago

Roughly 30k cycles is typical. You can certainly design a spring to have infinite life. But it requires reducing average deflection, aka more spring with less deflection per turn.

Scoundreller6• 2 years ago

Don't just lube the springs, take the cover off the opener and grease up the nylon gears. The grease eventually dries out and then the gears turn into dust.

Here's the DIY video I followed to overhaul it when that eventually happened: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qE3GTc1h5N0

tonetegeatinst• 2 years ago

So I recently helped my dad replace 2 of these springs. He is no engineer but used to be a firefighter and straight up told me "you don't respect the power of the spring....you will die" I don't think he ever had to respond to a call where someone died trying to do this....but I bet he had some local story of the dangers these pose growing up.

TLDR treat dangerous things with respect and you vastly increase your odds. Be it a firearm or a chemical or a fast spinning lathe.....danger can be lurking anuwhere and when you recognise it a d stop and develop a aproach to mitigate risks.....you can help elimate stupid mistakes that could really cost you.

TLDR its better to have annoyingly boring procedures than just wing it and hope it goes well.

VincentEvans• 2 years ago

Reading some of the comment section here makes this veteran DIYer sneer. Ya’ll need to “grow some” and unlearn helplessness.

Pay someone else who learned the simple steps to do the simple work and save yourself the time for more productive activities, but stop congratulating yourself on “avoiding a disaster” - too much drama for the task at hand here.

TheGRS2• 2 years ago

Its not a regular thing to work on for the majority of people. What's the point of manning up for this particular DIY if the danger is high? Is it really that big of an ego hit to pay someone for a job once in awhile?

happytoexplain2• 2 years ago

I'm sorry, but this "sneering" attitude is hideous. It's OK to do this job yourself if you have enough experience. It's also OK to not do it yourself because it is, in fact, dangerous. It's also OK to suggest that other DIY'ers err on the side of caution if they aren't 100% confident.

What's not OK is insisting broadly to man up and do it yourself, stop being helpless, etc. You could encourage an innocent person to severely injure themselves. It's pointless and irresponsible.

dang2• 2 years ago

"Please don't sneer, including at the rest of the community." - https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

If you know more than others, that's great, but in that case please share some of what you know, so the rest of us can learn: https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=true&sor...

Putdowns don't help anybody, and make less interesting reading.

bitfilped• 2 years ago

It also only takes one mistake to severely injure yourself and permanently reduce your quality of life, it's worth considering the value you put on that when deciding these things. I like DIYing as well, but sometimes the risk vs reward isn't worth some extra money. People who get injured doing DIY work often have a similar attitude as yours until they make a critical mistake taking on something they "understand" and haven't done before.

hk1337• 2 years ago

Usenet newsgroup alt.home.repair

This dude is old school.

crmd2• 2 years ago

The author's intentionally verbose/non-linear storytelling technique, for example the two paragraph detour that describes his ladder and the ladder company's bankruptcy, and the 19 paragraph deep dive on garage door repair business marketing, makes it very hard for my brain to absorb the core information I was looking for (the procedure to replace the springs).

I know I'm kind of missing the point/creative intent of this essay, and I appreciate the non-linear full-of-detours style in other genres. For example I'm a huge fan of Norm MacDonald whose long, impossible-to-follow stories would often drive unaware audiences and talkshow hosts crazy. But for technical things I personally find the style super annoying and feeling like the author is trying to flex on how much engineering, business, and trivia knowledge he has in many adjacent topics.

I actually get anxiety thinking about getting trapped at a bar or party interacting with somebody who talks like this :-)

Curious how other readers feel about this, especially those who have the exact opposite reaction!

hvs• 2 years ago

This is basically what the "early Internet" looked like that people often write paeans to. Lots of pages written by people very dedicated to a weirdly specific thing while also peppering it with nonsequiturs and their crazy theory about who runs the "real" government. It was fine, but hardly the glorious wonderland often portrayed. (Not that the current Internet is without its flaws, but if I want to learn something from someone it is a million times easier today than it was in the late-90's and early-00's.

crmd2• 2 years ago

Yeah, that's a good point and it makes me wonder if the modern web has shrunk my attention span.

I used to often meet this exact type of engineer early in my career as an enterprise data storage consultant in the 90s and early 2000s. I would say the most common "character" I would run into at a customer site was "UNIX libertarian hippie guy" who would love to weave politics, especially about privacy, freedom of speech, government overreach, new world order, esoteric obsessive hobbies, etc into technical discussions.

I feel like the typical tech worker today either has very different socio-political views, or keeps their politics out of our workplace interactions.

ToucanLoucan2• 2 years ago

It was fine, but hardly the glorious wonderland often portrayed.

Probably down to personal taste, but I would happily take a thousand of these websites with strange, esoteric folk sharing knowledge in unconventional ways than another subreddit that's 70% non-sequiturs by volume, or a Stack Exchange thread that's just the same quesiton asked 400 times in broken english.

Scoundreller6• 2 years ago

Modern day recipe and gardening websites sound like your description of the "early internet".

mauriciolange• 2 years ago

At first I find it difficult to concentrate, but then I started really enjoying the article, and in way I think it is much better than current low-content-big-font websites. But yes, I was raised with this kind of content, so it seems that when I started enjoying was because I synced with a style that I already knew.

throwaway2037• 2 years ago

This blog feels like something from Internet hyperspace: Informative, but shitty formatting / layout. I say the latter with genuine love -- no trolling / hate. This blog post could have been posted in 1994! Can we please get more of these on HN!?

dang2• 2 years ago

I Replaced Deadly Garage Door Torsion Springs and Lived to Tell the Tale - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28419196 - Sept 2021 (10 comments)

adrr3• 2 years ago

Why are we still using springs?

anamexis• 2 years ago

Why not?

adrr3• 2 years ago

Seems like there should be something better that can last longer and not kill you if you try to fix it.

unglaublich2• 2 years ago

Did you even read the article?

Why are we still using passive, reliable mechanisms to reduce the force needed to move heavy objects?

hoppyhoppy2• 2 years ago

Please don't comment on whether someone read an article. "Did you even read the article? It mentions that" can be shortened to "The article mentions that".

https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

itishappy• 2 years ago

Garage doors weigh from 80 to 200 lb (37 - 90 kg)[0], so you'd have to hang one of these from it[1]. Hmm, that doesn't sound too bad. Here's some smarter people than me discussing it[2]. Also, here's a company that sells them[3]. Looks like they use a pully system to double the weight and half the distance. Neat! I feel like I may have seen one of these before...

[0] https://veterangaragedoor.com/faq/how-much-do-garage-doors-w...

[1] https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/1/15/Heavy_Du...

[2] https://engineering.stackexchange.com/questions/8692/why-are...

[3] https://www.hermco.ca/products/2000-series/

elzbardico4• 2 years ago

The people answering apparently don't know that you can use counter-weights, cables and pulleys instead of a torsion spring. It takes more space, but it rock solid and safer to fix.

It is very common in some other countries.

BizarroLand3• 2 years ago

300lbs of counterweights strapped to the doors would take up a good bit of space. Pulley systems would need to either be 1 to 1 or would need some space to fall below the garage floor or to be stored above garage door height.

They seem far safer, longer lasting, and cheaper and easier to repair than springs, but are more expensive to install, take up more space, and probably cost more all in all compared to springs.

I found this that also goes into it:

https://engineering.stackexchange.com/questions/8692/why-are...

Obi_Juan_Kenobi• 2 years ago

Counterweights provide a constant force, whereas springs can be precisely balanced to the decreasing weight as the overhead door becomes more horizontal. It is inherently related to the design of segmented overhead doors.

cvalka• 2 years ago

It's an American upper middle class thing.

arh68• 2 years ago

but the risk is comparable to doing your own car repairs

"Comparable" in that it's way, way greater, sure. Unless we're talking dangerous car repairs, like using a spring compressor to disassemble a strut &c. Or using harbor freight jack stands..

When my spring broke, I thought someone crashed their car into my house. It's an incredible amount of energy.

Garage door springs are up there with lathes & table saws, in terms of danger (IMO).

pavel_lishin• 2 years ago

I once bought a table saw, then watched a YouTube safety video about table saws, and then sold my table saw.

I wouldn't even consider owning a lathe. I know my limits, and even the chop saw in the garage gives me the shivers.

WalterBright3• 2 years ago

I used a Craftsman radial arm saw for a while. One day, I rotated the head 90 degrees to do some ripping.

The saw grabbed the wood, and climbed up on it, and fired it at unbelievable speed at the wall. It punched a neat hole in the wall the exact size of the board, and the board disappeared into the next room.

I got rid of the saw after that, and bought a sweet Makita cutoff saw instead, and a table saw for ripping. I also bought one of those full face shields people use with chain saws. I like these better than the usual shields because they are a wire mesh, and screens don't fog up.

AlexandrB• 2 years ago

If I ever need a table saw I'm getting one of the pricy ones that stops before it chews up your hand[1].

My cousin is a professional furniture maker and lost the tips of 3 fingers to a table saw. It happens quickly.

[1] https://m.youtube.com/shorts/vCuLs31fDaQ

user3939382• 2 years ago

I’m really scared of my angle grinder. Checkout on YT what happens when one of those discs comes apart.

rainbowzootsuit2• 2 years ago

Angle grinder disks have an expiration date stamped on the hub that should be respected.

userbinator3• 2 years ago

Or using harbor freight jack stands..

Maybe in 2002? They seem decent these days. There are far worse: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hXzusz_eUy8

lobsterthief• 2 years ago

Honestly, Harbor Freight jackstands are just as safe as the others (sans the recalled ones from 2020ish). Regardless of brand, you want to employ a backup safety system—like removing some wheels and shoving them under there.

pengaru• 2 years ago

I used to do a lot of at home automotive work, and in the early days relied on jack stands since it's what was sold for the purpose and being a kid I didn't know better yet.

But after several years and a few close calls with cars unexpectedly shifting on the stands while applying work forces from below, I started using ramps and/or cribbing made of plain stacked dimensional lumber like 2x8s, and just scrap blocks of wood in general I'd taken from heavy duty pallets.

Jack stands just plain suck, it doesn't matter who made them. They're rigid at the vehicle interface (usually cast steel/iron) and generally only make very little points of contact over their cast in, small area profile - not even considering the tipping hazard when extended.

Solid chunks of wood piled up like cribbing is far more safe, and in my experience, free. And as an added bonus now you have chunks of greasy wood on hand for whacking things on/with less-destructively...

chasd00• 2 years ago

the people you pay to do it aren't going to do it any safer than you would and if they get hurt you're liable. You may as well watch some youtube, take your time, and do it yourself.

sfilmeyer• 2 years ago

I question whether it's actually true that they "aren't going to do it any safer than you would". I'd expect the typical person I hire to have a lot more experience than me which would give them a chance to be safer, to the point I'd expect it to overcome even the fact that they're probably not taking their time as much as I would.

Separately, being liable for something happening to someone else and that same thing happening to me are not equivalent. Macabre as it is, I'd rather pay out (or have my insurance pay) the lawsuit for a professional hired for a particular task ending up grievously injured than end up grievously injured myself. In a lot of cases, I'd doubt you'd even be financially liable. From a moral standpoint there's still some culpability, but in the case of garage springs I think your obligation is more to stress to the professional that you're happy for them to take their time and you're willing to pay accordingly than it is to subject yourself to the risk instead. From a societal standpoint, a few repairpeople building up expertise at a particular task is safer than everyone doing it individually.

scotty792• 2 years ago

Experience brings complacency.

Averagely experienced woodworkers loose fingers most often.

When you are new to something you are super careful. When you are veteran you made or seen somebody make all mistakes already.

When you are averagely experienced it's the most likely time for your confidence to exceed your capability.

unglaublich2• 2 years ago

I rather pay for a dead person than be the dead person. Also, you might expect some professionalism from a person advertising themselves as capable of doing the job, so not sure how your liability assumption holds up.

ajcp• 2 years ago

and if they get hurt you're liable

That is about as true as you being liable for a mechanic hurting themselves working on your car or a repairman falling off the roof fixing your HVAC in that it's not true at all.

Now, if a mechanic is working on my car and my garage door spring snaps and injures them then yes, I would be liable.

rootusrootus3• 2 years ago

if they get hurt you're liable

Don't hire that person. Hire someone with insurance. You as homeowner are really unlikely to incur any liability as long as you are not substantially directing their work. Let them be the expert doing their job.

xyzelement• 2 years ago

This makes no sense as others pointed out.

There are times to make repairs yourself - such as when you think you can do a better / more nuanced job than a "pro" or when acquiring the skill can pay dividends over a long period (eg once you learn to change your oil and rotate your tires, you will have the option to never pay for it.)

Taking on the injury instead of letting a pro handle is is explicitly NOT the reason to DIY! Presumably the pro has done that thing many times and survived, and even if he fucks up that's the risk of his job.

theogravity• 2 years ago

I had mine fail on me a few years ago. Mine was a single spring, and after researching on how to replace, I decided that I'd rather pay someone else to take the risk.

It was around $700 at the time and the installer installed two springs (side by side) to handle a failure event with one of them.

rootusrootus3• 2 years ago

I've had springs replaced in the past, and that's one of those jobs I'm perfectly willing to pay someone else to do. The cost is insignificant. I'll happily wire up my own 240V appliances, work underneath my properly supported car, etc. But garage door springs? Nah, go ahead, you do it, send me the bill.

dave78• 2 years ago

The cost really is the key for me. We had one replaced a few months ago and it was a few hundred dollars and was done the same day. I usually prefer to DIY, but it would have taken me a while just to measure everything, round up the right spring and acquire it, get the correct rods and cut them to size, etc. I'm sure that would consume at least an afternoon for me and it would still cost something to acquire the parts. The savings just isn't worth it.

If the cost to have it done professionally was $3000, it might be a different story.

uticus• 2 years ago

If they are this bad to replace, should I be worried about them randomly failing? I mean, I drive right underneath them like twice a day backing in and out.

buescher• 2 years ago

They typically fail when wound (closed), not unwound (open), because that's when they're stressed. Cables can fail when winding the drum (open), but you have two.

therein• 2 years ago

That doesn't instill any peace of mind. So they are normally under stress and might explode at some random moment?

Edit: Okay, that [0] doesn't look too violent.

[0] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F4qTIpspUik

userbinator3• 2 years ago

The roof of your car can likely survive the garage door falling on it.

Unless you're in a convertible.

xyst• 2 years ago

i thought there were alternates to torsion spring as the mechanism to open and close garage doors by now. I guess it’s limited for residential installs

elzbardico4• 2 years ago

At my home country we used counter-weights, pulleys and cables. Took more space, it is arguably uglier (but who cares how it looks on the inside?) but the cable usually lasts for ages and fixing it is not a life-threatening procedure.

elzbardico4• 2 years ago

Torsion springs are BMWs, the expensive, over-engineered, beautiful, high performance style of doing this.

Most of use would be just fine with a Toyota instead.

LeifCarrotson2• 2 years ago

How does a counterweight work?

A torsion spring is great because as it unwinds, the tension decreases. As the garage door transitions from 200 lbs of vertical load in the closed position to almost 0 lbs when it's mostly parallel to the ceiling, a properly sized and wound spring reduces the force in synchrony with the door position.

Wouldn't a counterweight provide insufficient force at the bottom and/or excess force at the top?

Horffupolde3• 2 years ago

It’s like for an elevator. The motor is there for the friction but the potential energy of the system is approximately constant.

cyberax• 2 years ago

You use multiple weights that telescope into each other ( https://www.hermco.ca/products/2000-series/ ), or a segmented counterweight (Kelley E-Systems one company that does this).

But they require space and a sturdy housing. Springs are as compact as you can get.

There are also some safety concerns, a cable connecting the door to the counterweight can break, and/or slip. This can result in pieces of metal flying everywhere. A broken spring typically stays contained.

Personally, I would do one of the counterweight systems for my new house.

alliao2• 2 years ago

oh that is cool what country is that? I'd like to check them out. Honestly sounds really good.

elzbardico4• 2 years ago

Brazil.

Actually I found out that now the more popular system for this kind of door there doesn't even use counterweights or springs, but an endless screw inside a rail or a linear gear.

https://ppa-rp.com.br/item/motor-de-portao-basculante-ppa-ho... max door weight = 250kg

https://ppa-rp.com.br/item/motor-de-portao-basculante-ppa-bv... max door weight = 500kg

For reference: 5.0 R$ ~= 1.0 USD 250 kg ~= 550 lbs

galdosdi• 2 years ago

Copyright 2002, 2003, 2004, 2005, 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012, 2014, 2015 Richard J Kinch

Why is 2013 missing?

valleyer• 2 years ago

Presumably because the document was not updated in 2013. So no part of the document was first published in that year.

m3kw9• 2 years ago

He needs all the luck with that job or paying it forward for next time

lebuffon• 2 years ago

Reminds me of the old engineer joke:

"Did you know you can save $27.00 if you build your own refrigerator?"

nkurz• 2 years ago

I don't know it, and searching got me nowhere. Could you expand?

xattt• 2 years ago

The BOM of a DIY refrigerator (or anything of this sort), built using retail price components, is almost as much as a manufactured fridge that was built using components bought at a volume discount.

fbdab103• 2 years ago

How is this the first time I have heard this? Just golden wisdom that is broadly applicable to so much DIY.

anyfactor• 2 years ago

I understand the idea of DIY and self repair, but doing some kind of specialized DIY work will require special tools, domain knowledge, ability to fix things on the go, ability to stay focused after a full week of work etc.

I am not dismissing DIY at all, but YouTube repair channels make it sound so easy but viewers forget making these repair videos is their job while your job is writing software. When you try it out IRL these repairs are always considerably more difficult and nobody talks about shipping cost that makes 5 minute replacements considerably more expensive.

winrid• 2 years ago

My grandfather is in his 70s and does this as his "retirement job", it's generally around $500 last I asked him...

iancmceachern• 2 years ago

My dad would do anything, with confidence.

This is the one thing he wouldn't touch.

Me too.

mistrial9• 2 years ago

yes this is dangerous ! first hand experience with a commercial rollup door. A small crowbar is used to tighten the final install, about four meters up off the ground, too.

Waterluvian• 2 years ago

so if you have any doubts about your abilities to do risky physical work on your own, hire the job out like everyone else.

The problem I witness is that the people who kill or maim themselves will tell you they were confident. When people aren’t confident, their brains are responding properly to the danger and it generally leads them to making good decisions.

fargle• 2 years ago

hard disagree. confidence != complacency/over-confidence.

self-confidence is actually an absolutely key factor to safety. it doesn't mean you are blind to the dangers, rather that you recognize them, are able manage and handle risks and how to mitigate them, and above all are not fearful. you absolutely need to trust yourself.

if you are not feeling confident you are NOT going to be safe. not being confident leads to timidity, second-guessing, maybe saying "ugh. i guess that is normal?" when they shouldn't. and if something goes wrong, you can't freeze, you have to be able react appropriately.

the first time you do a mildly risky thing like this, it's wise to do more research, go a little slower and think about each step. but there's no reason that you can't approach it with a safe and confident attitude, even the first time, if you are prepared - or even better - have a trainer/mentor that can check you.

when you feel "unconfident" or fearful that is when you should walk away.

LeifCarrotson2• 2 years ago

The reason it's not expensive to have someone else do it is that if done properly it's not dangerous. Otherwise culture would be lumping garage door repairmen with emergency responders who take dangerous jobs but keep society functioning. You couldn't get it done for $200 if the career killed people frequently.

The "if done properly" is critical, yes, if done wrong it's incredibly dangerous, but if you understand and respect it there's minimal chance of harm.

DIYed it three times now (on different doors of course) without incident.

Horffupolde3• 2 years ago

Famous last words.

Loughla• 2 years ago

That makes no sense.

I'm with OP. You don't see mass casualties among overhead door installation crews. So, there must be a safe way to do it.

I've also installed around 6 overhead doors, and followed all safety instructions that I learned from an overhead door installer. I've never once been killed.

KennyBlanken• 2 years ago

On what planet do you live where dangerousness of work has anything to do with pay?

EMTs, who are basically doing the bulk of "saving people's lives" - are paid the lowest wages, worse than firefighters, police, and often even the dispatchers. Why? Because the market is totally saturated with former armed services folks. And in many states, assaulting a cop will get you in a fuckton of trouble, assaulting a firefighter will get you in a fair bit of trouble, but assaulting an EMT will (depending on the state) often get you...an ambulance ride, which you were probably getting anyway.

Retail workers, transportation workers, field workers...all very dangerous jobs and bottom-barrel pay. Same for people in meat processing; just look up the articles about migrant children working in meat packing plants (or don't if you have kids, because there are some incredibly horrific things happening to them.)

fragmede• 2 years ago

Yeah. Pizza delivery is surprisingly dangerous and they're paid very little.

Then again, underwater welding and helicopter chainsaw pilot pays quite well.

So sometimes it does, but it's not correlated.

alliao2• 2 years ago

if you know it well enough to keep yourself safe then I'd usually say yes. The thing that differs between say... dealing with residential mains power vs spring is I can measure and have quite a bit of trust in materials used. springs I just don't know enough, if it's of good material, metal fatigue? and a mishap means a good chance of disablement. I just don't like springs. Same thing with car suspension and those spring clamps? No SIR.

1970-01-01• 2 years ago

Excellent example of safety third. If you know how to be careful, don't be afraid to do the job.

b3lvedere2• 2 years ago

Or if you know it is going to be a huge pain in the.. then hire someone.

Recently i had all the central heating connections in my house replaced by smart thermostats. I could have done that myself given enough time, but i knew the old current system was from around 1970/1980 and i would face major problems. So i hired some guy to do it for me. Agreed upon a fixed price as well. It took him around 11 hours to get everything working.

Scoundreller6• 2 years ago

One scam/scheme not mentioned in the article is calling the phone number on the sticker of the vendor that installed your opener. Those are very valuable advertisement slots. Call anyone but them. There's not a ton of specialization in residential garage door systems.

stavros2• 2 years ago

Can you clarify a bit? Why are they valuable ad slots? Why wouldn't I call the vendor that installed my opener to repair it?

lolinder2• 2 years ago

Presumably because when they see the sticker they'll know that you called them without shopping around, so they'll quote you something ridiculous and bank on you not realizing you could easily get a second opinion.

giantg23• 2 years ago

I wonder if longer life springs could be made from something like chrome silicon, or if the application of force won't work that way for that material.

mikewarot• 2 years ago

Mine is broken and I'm waiting until I have enough savings to pay someone experienced to do it for us.

I've worked on all sorts of things, but I don't want to risk my health that recklessly.

wigglewoggle• 2 years ago

It's interesting whenever this comes up on Reddit and there are a hundred comments parroting how dangerous this is, but on closer inspection you can see the comments cannot discriminate between important details - eg. talking about how dangerous extension springs are, having no clue that they are different than torsion springs. Always fun to see how many people will pretend they have knowledge on a subject they have no experience in.

MichaelMug• 2 years ago

hundred comments parroting how dangerous this is

And every time a similar post or question is made the same responses are parroted again.

I’ve read so much Reddit in college that I would play a game where id try to guess what the top voted comments would say. After a while it becomes tiring to read the same things over and over again.

pests• 2 years ago

Yep, can even go levels deep and correctly guess replies to relies. Or what song are they going to sing line by line? too predictable.

winkelmann2• 2 years ago

Something I've noticed is that, when under the guise of safety/"don't do this thing", netizens seem to have few inhibitions sharing information from topics they barely understand or have experience in. Some caution is always good, but I feel like people are too comfortable using it as an excuse for sharing unsubstantiated information as fact.

mildchalupa3• 2 years ago

People think garage door springs are like diffusing a bomb. It's not that bad if you are competent and have the correct equipment.

b3lvedere2• 2 years ago

People who nickel and dime everything usually do not have the correct equipment and most of them are hardly competent as well.

irjustin• 2 years ago

I'll agree with Reddit and most of the posts here. It's too dangerous to be worth it.

Once every 3-7 years replacement at ~US$150-350 YMMV is honestly not that much money saved vs the risk.

kstrauser• 2 years ago

Once every 3-7 years? I've heard of them breaking before but I've never had it happen in a place I lived, including my parents' house growing up, and the houses I've personally owned. I've never had the spring worked on other than to have it installed in the first place.

Again, I know they break sometimes. It should not be happening every few years.

(But if/when it does, take my money. I'll replace my car's brakes and wire a new ceiling fan but I'm not touching that spring for love nor money.)

userbinator3• 2 years ago

I wonder if the claims of danger are exaggerated to keep those in the business making $$$, and spread like rumours aided by the lack of information in that era. Now that there's YouTube, and an abundance of information (and accompanying misinformation, of course), the truth can come to light.

I even found a supposedly scary warning video of a spring deliberately let go, and it's... underwhelmingly tame: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hrUIN6hClB4

Just remember to keep your hands away from it, which is easy to do with long winding rods that should be grasped at the ends for best leverage anyway.

RockRobotRock• 2 years ago

this article was very effective at convincing me I would never try this myself.

ARandomerDude• 2 years ago

I attempted an almost identical repair like this once and ended up in the ER. Don't do it. Call a pro.

linsomniac4• 2 years ago

I think the next time I have to replace my torsion springs, I'm going to install the Coplay Ez-Set system, anyone have experience with it? It has a built in tensioning system. https://www.homedepot.com/p/Clopay-EZ-Set-Torsion-Conversion...

It has a built-in winder that uses a power drill.

There are tools that will attach to the traditional winders and you can use a power drill, those tools are $800, which is a bit hard to swallow.

ehaskins• 2 years ago

I've installed doors with that system, or a very similar Menard's carries.

Given the choice, I'd opt for it since it is easier to fine tune, but I'm not convinced it's safer than the traditional way. You still have to secure the door against unintentional movement and ensure everything is assembled correctly before tensioning.

The only "safety" feature I see is it eliminates the appeal to use an inadequate tool to tension the spring, so resist the urge to use a flimsy old screwdriver and you'll probably have similar risk either way.

porkbeer3• 2 years ago

I have replaced these and am still alive. Apparently thats a big deal? When did we become so afraid of being responsible for our own safety?

j-a-a-p3• 2 years ago

These doors are what we call a 'luxury problem': just more trouble because the premium door type was chosen. The single pane type door I know [0] are perhaps uglier, but they will last decades and do not need maintenance. They use normal springs.

[0] https://www.novoferm.nl/producten/garagedeuren/kanteldeuren/

weinzierl• 2 years ago

"Phew! The hazardous torsion is all removed from the old spring. Now the disassembly can begin, with our old friend gravity as the only acceleration threatening personal safety."

Haha, also reminds me of how *"The Actions In This Video Are Performed by Professionals" became completely meaningless, because most of the time they very obviously aren't.

TomMasz• 2 years ago

I respect the enormous power of these springs and leave them to the pros.

stikit• 2 years ago

I replaced my torsion springs a few weeks ago with little drama. The hardest part was measuring the old springs so I could order the correct replacements. The reason I did it myself was 1) the springs used by contractors are typically lower quality and will last 10k cycles vs about 30k for the standard ones I ordered. 2) I wanted to learn how the system worked so I could adjust it as needed and know it was done right and not be reliant on an ‘expert’ same as why people work on their cars 3) labor costs in Seattle area are higher than most other areas. The best video on replacement is https://youtu.be/xOXO01rdZ5c?feature=shared. I used zip ties to hold the cable pulleys and open mouthed bracket in place instead of the vice grips as he did in the video. I did not weigh the door. I did it alone, though probably not recommended. I ordered from DDM Garage Doors. I wouldn’t recommend Amazon vendors as they all look pretty sketch. Definitely order proper winding bars with good rubber stops to help you ensure you’ve inserted it fully before each wind. If you are at all mechanical minded (replaced a clothes dryer drum? ), this is doable. Just go slow and be safe. Took me about an hour to remove the old springs, 3 days to get parts and 3 hours to install including having to repeat the winding because the cables came off during the first try. I wore gloves, safety glasses and during the winding of the springs a bike helmet and an over the ear headset to protect my ears. Probably could have used teeth protection, and a chainsaw type face shield. The dangerous part is tightening the set bolts while the spring is tensioned . If you aren’t paying attention, I can see that it might be easy to bump the bar out of place, releasing the tension and potentially shooting the bolts back at you or the spring catching your gloves and fingers and shredding them.

winkelmann2• 2 years ago

I wore gloves

I don't know if this also applies to garage door springs, but when working with lathes for example, it is often recommended to not wear gloves. I imagine if the spring comes loose, it might slash open your hand, but with a glove, it could fully grab it and basically wind up your hand and arm around itself.

__mharrison__• 2 years ago

One of our garage door springs "popped" just last week. Had to recruit two of my kids to help me get the door open to back out the vehicles. Even an aluminum garage door is heavy.

pierat• 2 years ago

This garage door work is comparable to working on a vehicle suspension. Similar springs, similar preloading force, etc. And similar threat of death if you fuck up or do something stupid.

Nothing wrong with doing things yourself, but make sure you're following basic safety standards and procedures. And don't do stupid hacks cause the actual tools are expensive. This is how you get injured or killed.

londons_explore• 2 years ago

The springs become pretty safe when contained with a simple cable down the middle right?

dpb001• 2 years ago

A year ago I had a spring fail in my old/cheap system with tension springs. I was surprised to see the level of scamminess present in this particular area of repair.

After seeing that a set of replacement springs from a big box store was under $100 and wouldn't be that hard to do myself, I figured that it would be reasonable to pay an extra $100-200 just to have it done while I was busy with other things.

One guy over the phone tried to convince me that he would need to replace the entire cable system as well and lost any interest after I told him the cables were fine and the spring had failed from fatigue in the hook section where the cable was attached.

Someone else was "dispatched" from a local-sounding number and showed up with out-of-state license plates on his van. He quoted me $800 for the repair. I tried not to be a jerk and told him thanks, but I'll be looking around some more. He then dropped the price to $400, saying he'd do the job for that if he could replace only one spring. After another thanks, but no thanks he became aggressive and said that was a special one-time price that ended when he left my driveway. He later texted me with a $200 dollar price, but by then I had already arranged for someone to do a full conversion to a torsion system for about $500.

kristianp• 2 years ago

Speaking of things you shouldn't do yourself, I should really get around to replacing that ceiling fan remote unit.

slowhand09• 2 years ago

Good article, but the author is using low numbers for the "speeding bullet" stats. Like many jobs both around the house and industrial stuff, know what you are doing before you attempt it. But go away with the "it's too dangerous for mere mortals" speeches and special legislation to protect us all. Many people are capable and willing to do work that is hard and or dangerous. Snowflake legislation doesn't help the world work. Darwin awards work for the betterment of society.

dajt• 2 years ago

Proper nerd chic, that site. Love it!

How I replaced deadly garage door torsion springs (2002)

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