Apple’s plunge in PC shipments is steepest among major computer makers

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2023-04-10/apple-s-40-plunge-leads-pc-shipments-down-as-tech-demand-sags

by mfiguiere • 3 years ago

176 346 3 years ago

sylware2• 3 years ago

Since apple digital jail is even worse than msft one, even though you have the same steering from blackrock/vanguard share holders...

jez... this is actually good news.

But all that is linked, the sane way out of this are risc-v based systems with _LEAN_ open source (hence excluding the current "web"). We could even push to "open source" performant risc-v design.

fsloth2• 3 years ago

Many choose Apple exactly because of the tight platform integration. There is no one true method of general computing.

sylware2• 3 years ago

The absolute truth about apple and msft: they ARE digital jails.

There is worse though: video game consoles and locked smart phones.

senttoschool5• 3 years ago

What is most surprising here is that Apple's share growth is worse than other PC makers. It seemed like Apple was going to continue to gain market share in PCs with Apple Silicon effortlessly. But this didn't happen in Q1.

I'm going to speculate why:

* People are going back to buying cheaper laptops due to the economy, inflation, and exchange rates. Apple suffers in this environment because they're generally less flexible when it comes to dropping prices.

* M2 was late by ~8 months (assuming they want to release a new gen every year).

* M2 Pro/Max, consequentially, was also late by 4 months.

* M2's performance increases did not knock it out of the park. No Ray Tracing support. No drastic increase in ST. Still using a node in 5nm family.

* Ideally, we should be on M3 right now.

* M1, Pro, Max were so good that people will wait for M3 or M4 to upgrade again. I'm in this camp.

* Still no MacBook SE to capture the value Walmart/Costco Windows laptop buyers

* Still no 15" Macbook Air, which will very likely become the #1 selling Mac when it's released

* RAM and SSD are expensive upgrades and 8/256 as the baseline is finally not enough.

The most frustrating thing about following Apple Silicon over the last 2 years is just how passive Apple's strategy is. Hopefully, Apple is learning a lesson here and will be more aggressive going forward. No more delays. No more holding back. Less stingy on RAM and SSD.

illiarian7• 3 years ago

M2's performance increases did not knock it out of the park.

I can't understand where people got their idea that M2 had to absolutely be an OMG moment. That's literally what Apple has been doing since forever: release a major upgrade, iterate on it for a few years, repeat.

Ideally, we should be on M3 right now.

M1 was released in November 2020, less than three years ago. How the hell are we supposed to be on M3 now?

senttoschool5• 3 years ago

I can't understand where people got their idea that M2 had to absolutely be an OMG moment. That's literally what Apple has been doing since forever: release a major upgrade, iterate on it for a few years, repeat.

That's right. That's part of the reason why sales fell so drastically.

M1 was released in November 2020, less than three years ago. How the hell are we supposed to be on M3 now?

There is a lot of evidence that Apple wants to release a new M series every year. There were many reputable reports that suggests M2 was ready long before the M2 Air design was ready to go. Another piece of evidence is that the video files for the M2 Pro/Max suggests that they were ready as soon as October 2022. They were delayed by 4 months.

Ideally, the timeline should have been:

M1: Fall 2020 (uses A14 from iPhone 12)

M2: Fall 2021 (uses A15 from iPhone 13)

M3: Fall 2022 (probably would have used A16 from iPhone 14 but with delays to M2 and delays to TSMC's 3nm, it'll likely skip the A16 and go straight to A17 from iPhone 15).

The above timeline did not happen for various reasons including supply chain bottlenecks, delays to the M2 Air redesign, and 3nm delay from TSMC.

oh_nice_marmot• 3 years ago

I can't understand where people got their idea that M2 had to absolutely be an OMG moment. That's literally what Apple has been doing since forever: release a major upgrade, iterate on it for a few years, repeat.

Maybe not so much that people were expected to get their socks knocked off once again but mostly that M1 Max/Pro are more than enough for years to come for the majority of the people that got them.

Heck, I have a M1Air and a M1Max16. I can't even max it out with my current usage. Hard to justify the slight bump for the M2 given the cost in the EU. Even if M3 would double the performance and battery life would still be a hard sell.

Dalewyn5• 3 years ago

M1 was released in November 2020, less than three years ago. How the hell are we supposed to be on M3 now?

Marketing. Consider why Chrome and Firefox increase their major version number every release for the smallest change now.

When Intel and AMD are both bumping up their version numbers every year or two, Apple sitting on M1 for three years looks out of fashion to the simpler people.

This isn't to say Apple (nor Intel and AMD for that matter) should release new CPUs or bump the number up anyway every year, but human psychology is undeniable.

sitkack2• 3 years ago

Great synopsis.

Amazing machines, but the price climbs like a rocket as everyone else sinks back down to earth. And AMD Ryzen mobile cpus give M a run.

I don't understand M2 at all. And I say this from an M1 Max. I had hoped that M2 was going to be as drastic an increase as the M1 was, but nope.

simonbarker87• 3 years ago

Genuinely interested why you expected an iterative change (M1 to M2) to be as drastic as an architecture change (Intel to Apple Silicon)?

I have an M1 Max MBP and an M2 Air - both machines are great, I can’t tell the difference between the chips on short work loads but the M2 Air form factor is the best Mac I’ve had (15 year Mac user so I’ve got a few to compare it to)

elAhmo• 3 years ago

Why do you think 15" Air would the best selling Mac?

senttoschool5• 3 years ago

Because the 15" Windows laptop screen size is the most popular, by far.

It makes a lot of sense. 13" is a tad bit too small for students and office workers. 15" is more comfortable for productivity.

I assume that laptop buyers will focus on productivity. Otherwise, they'd just use their iPads/tablets for media consumption.

dwighttk• 3 years ago

assuming they want to release a new gen every year

Why would one assume that?

senttoschool5• 3 years ago

* An Apple executive said recently that they want to release a huge upgrade every year. They don't want to hold back.[0]

* M1 used A14. M2 used A15 (even though A16 was already out). This seems to suggest that Apple wants to make use of every A series iteration. The A series gets a new gen every year.

* It seems to make sense business-wise that the base M will at least get upgraded once a year. It isn't too much more effort since the iPhone funds most of the development. The base M chip goes into the following: Macbook Air 13", Macbook Air 15"(expected to come out in a few months), iPad Pro 13", iPad Pro 11", iMac, Mac Mini, iPad Air. It's valuable to update these devices once a year.

* We weren't in "normal" years. Covid, supply chain issues, work from home, gigantic demand followed by demand collapse like contributed to delays.

[0]https://techcrunch.com/2023/02/06/apple-execs-on-m2-chips-wi...

re-thc• 3 years ago

The most frustrating thing about following Apple Silicon over the last 2 years is just how passive Apple's strategy is.

Apple had problems but not much they could do. There were "delays" at TSMC. There was talent loss e.g. with some members moving to Nuvia (now acquired by Qualcomm).

M2 ideally could have been much better but it was out of their hands.

Wouldn't call it passive.

ThorsBane3• 3 years ago

* M1, Pro, Max were so good that people will wait for M3 or M4 to upgrade again. I'm in this camp.

This is me. I was dominating a 13" mbp m1 base model in startup mode for almost two years. I only upgraded to a 16" mbp m1 base model for the larger screen and higher refresh rate. The moment they release m3 or m4 or whatever without the display notch and even more improvements, I'll upgrade.

I'm fully expecting both my 13" and 16" m1 machines to still be almost as productive as I need them to be in a couple years...but this alien technology deserves to be purchased.

illiarian7• 3 years ago

My personal explanation would be that everyone went out and bought M-series laptops. The end of the rush coupled with a slowdown resulted in a significant YoY drop.

reacharavindh• 3 years ago

I think Apple being as big, and making the big technological leap with M1 convinced a lot of customers to buy the new Macs. Even those that technically weren’t needing one/upgrade. Now, that curiosity bubble has saturated with the M2 being an iterative improvement and the customer base certainly not as desperate (intel to M1). Given enough time, I think the Macs will continue to gain market share. Most tech companies now provide MacBooks for their employees as a default choice. One doesn’t lose such grip easily.

ChuckNorris893• 3 years ago

Most tech companies now provide MacBooks for their employees as a default choice.

Depends on your location, bubble and what kind work you do. Where I live now in Europe, companies mostly provide PC laptops with with Windows (vast majority) or sometimes Ubuntu on the same machines, because the bean counters here are far too scroogy to justify to management switching the entire fleet to Macs. Also probably because it's what most IT guys here are used to managing so moving everything to Macs would mean costs the company is not willing to bear.

If by tech you only mean agile web and mobile dev shops, then yes, it tends to be a majority Mac scene, but tech is much more generic and encompasses more industries than just web-dev. If you go to traditional tech industries, banks or large enterprises, it will 98% sure be a Windows machine here with almost no choice in the matter.

Only the frontend, graphic design and mobile app guys in my current company get Macs, the backend guys Ubuntu, and all the rest Windows.

chank• 3 years ago

Pretty much the same in the US. Even those doing webdev. Non-Windows is still very outlier.

cbm-vic-20• 3 years ago

My company does periodic refreshes of laptops, and we get an option of a Windows PC or a Mac. I do most of my development on cloud-hosted dev boxes, and minimal "local" development (though I do most of my code-reading locally).

The primary reason I switched to selecting a Mac is that it is extremely quiet. The fans rarely turn on in the M1 MBP. There's no coil whine. Back while I was working in the open-plan office, I woudn't notice the noise from the machine next to me over the generally loud office environment with its air handling, people walking by, etc. But while working from home, the near constant fan noise from the Windows machine randomly spiking the CPU to 100% was maddening.

Next time I replace my personal laptop (XPS 13 9370), I'm strongly considering getting a Macbook Air. I really appreciate having a completely silent machine.

marinhero• 3 years ago

This makes sense. Amongst my friends, a number of them maxed out an M1 machine not just because of the processor but also because of the improved I/O and new form factor. The M1 machine ticked so many boxes that the purchase decision was not solely pushed by the CPU. The machines are so good it’s hard to justify a new one!

wil4212• 3 years ago

Same here. I’ve wanted a MacBook Air since the core 2 duo days but the processor was always too slow and RAM too small. The fanless M1 air was exactly what I’ve wanted for 15 years.

JimDabell• 3 years ago

Same here. I maxed out the M1 14” MacBook Pro as soon as it came out. It was a huge upgrade in every way. The M2s look great, but the only real difference is a slight bump in horsepower.

I’ll wait a release or two before upgrading. Apple haven’t lost an M2 sale because they’ve done anything wrong, they’ve guaranteed an M3 or M4 sale because they nailed it. It’ll take a while for that success to show up in their books though.

steve_adams_86• 3 years ago

I’m working with a maxed out M1 MacBook Pro and I can’t imagine it being obsolete any time soon. Apple might not sell me a computer for several years, but I spent far more than I would have otherwise. Assuming all goes well, I’ll probably do the same thing when I do buy again.

bsder• 3 years ago

Every iOS programmer needed to make the jump. Coding directly on ARM rather than an x86 emulator of ARM is a huge deal.

In addition, Apple obsoletes Xcode for new phones quite regularly. Once the M1 was out it and working fine it was clear that support for x86 would get killed post haste.

musicale2• 3 years ago

The machines are so good it’s hard to justify a new one!

I imagine Apple will have to accelerate planned obsolescence (maybe dropping from 7 to 5 years of OS and security updates) to make analysts happy. ;-/

More seriously, I've gotten 7+ years of use out of multiple Apple devices. Though my 2014 iPad Air 2 is probably going to be retired from the internet once iPadOS 15 security updates end.

Also I expect a minor boost for Apple if Apple Silicon based Mac Pro machines (and perhaps pro iMac models?) turn out well.

golergka• 3 years ago

I have the maxed out 2020 16" Macbook Pro, the last of the Intel ones. I really wanted to buy M1 and M2 one, and I have the means, but the existing one just works too well still for me to justify the expense to myself.

Also, when I go and finally buy one, I think I'll just won't need the maxed out version anymore, and will prioritise portability over power, so I'll pay less. Simply because of reports about how powerful M1/2 is.

earthnail• 3 years ago

I’ve traded my 2017 maxed out MBP for an M2 Air. It’s insane. I don’t do video editing but lots of code compiling and the Air handles it without problems. Sure, the Pro would be even faster, so maybe I don’t know what I’m missing out on, but the Air is so crazy fast and the battery life so incredibly long, I have zero regrets on that purchase.

Spooky232• 3 years ago

Companies usually buy base models.

Apple is also struggling with supply chain, as M1 is still prominent. Another feature of this issue is that because of their parsimonious storage configuration and linkage of M2 chip and storage, upgrades are nuts - it costs as much as an iPhone to get a storage upgrade that is like $100 with commodity SSD storage.

ChuckNorris893• 3 years ago

Apple is also struggling with supply chain

Not anymore. They actually had to cut back M2 orders due to slow sales. Nvidia and AMD and others have also been cutting back orders for the same reason.

The consumer tech supply chain is no longer blocked like ti was during the pandemic.

senttoschool5• 3 years ago

upgrades are nuts - it costs as much as an iPhone to get a storage upgrade that is like $100 with commodity SSD storage.

I generally agree that Apple's SSD and RAM upgrades are too expensive. I'd like them to be cheaper.

However, I'd like to point out that Apple's SSDs have built-in protection against data-loss from power loss which is usually an enterprise SSD feature. Also, Apple uses LPDDR5 on their Macs which are quite a bit more expensive than DDR4/DDR5. In addition, there's some evidence that Apple's LPDDR5 is actually not off the shelf and is specialized specifically for Apple.[0]

That said, yea I think Apple is a bit stingy with SSD and RAM upgrades.

[0]https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/24gb-macbook-air-m2-ram...

reaperducer2• 3 years ago

$100 with commodity SSD storage.

You answered your own question there. Apple doesn't used "commodity" SSD storage. Apple's SSDs are enterprise-grade, not bottom-of-the-barrel commodity parts.

quickthrower22• 3 years ago

I use iPhones for the “cuz it just works” factor, and with those M chips, I am tempted to make the switch from Windows PCs

These days laptop PCs are unreliable across most brands I have tried and supplied with crapware and the operating system is hostile and forces stuff like OneDrive on you and begs you not to install Chrome.

Last 2 years over 2 devices:

Broken screen (not due to external)

Touchscreen not working

Lid came apart

Audio stops working while windows uodates pending

Laptop stopped turning on

With the latest device I got all the extended warrantees and accidental damage coverage as the pot odds made it worth paying 33% of the device price over 3 years.

teh_klev• 3 years ago

Which devices gave you such trouble?

belltaco• 3 years ago

These days laptop PCs are unreliable across most brands I have tried and supplied with crapware and the operating system is hostile and forces stuff like OneDrive on you and begs you not to install Chrome.

That is true but Apple's OneDrive equivalent thing iCloud is the same way, they even show fake red notifications on program icons to make you sign into iCloud and use dark patterns to make you use iCloud. They don't push Safari as much but they've been stagnating it on purpose across all their products to protect their App Store revenue, which is quite the turn off.

Apple's hardware can also have problems as evidenced on here and forums but overall might be better than a cheaper laptop, just like PC laptops. Anyway my two biggest reasons for not going with a MacBook were that I think a touchscreen should be a mandatory as an option in 2023(at least for tapping on links etc. if not multitouch) and being able to play specific FPS titles in a pinch(like in a hotel while traveling) which are not available on the Mac. I was able to get an OLED HDR touchscreen running at 120hz which is gorgeous.

crossroadsguy4• 3 years ago

Their hardware are quiet good and often worth cost.

But their software are barely average and services (iCloud et al) downright pathetic. Definitely much worse than OneDrive which in itself it’s not great. I mean any data I have in iCloud I assume it’s gone — I don’t even consider it a safe copy of mu data. There’s barely any transparency around it (which is actually Apple’s DNA - lack of transparency in general).

postalrat• 3 years ago

I've seen a lot Linux based deeper machines now that docker has become huge.

zippergz• 3 years ago

Yup. I bought an M1 to replace an Intel mac that was less than two years old. I certainly don’t have any plans to replace the m1 that quickly. This isn’t a knock against the M2; the Intel to M1 leap was a very unusual situation.

reaperducer2• 3 years ago

the big technological leap with M1 convinced a lot of customers to buy the new Macs

Building on this — A good number of people who planned to buy new Macs (myself included) held off on those purchases until the M1 came out.

Call it the "Osborne Bounce" — A bit of tech is announced too early, and the anticipation reduces normal sales volumes until it's available. At that time, there's a huge spike in sales, followed by numbers being depressed because everyone already has the shiny new thing.

Something like the Osborne Effect, except Apple has the cash and product diversity to not go out of business while everyone holds on to their wallets.

vishnugupta2• 3 years ago

I’d say there are multiple factors at play, one you pointed out being one of them.

The current downtrend has definitely played a role. Not online have companies laid off tens of thousands of employees they have also cut down hiring. In all likelihood these companies have excess of IT hardware inventory.

There’s also longitivtiy, my Mac from Nov 2018 is still going strong and I don’t think I’ll need to upgrade for at least 2 more years.

And finally let’s not forget the price. As good as M2 is I need to spend a bomb to get an M2 that can handle my workload. So I keep putting off the purchase.

bluedino2• 3 years ago

I think a lot of the 13" buyers will end up upgrading as they sound pretty tired about the lack of dual-monitor support.

_kblcuk_• 3 years ago

Those who needed dual-monitor support probably didn't buy 13" MBPs/Airs to start with?

cableshaft• 3 years ago

I only just upgraded mine this past month, but I was still using a Macbook Pro from 2015 (not regularly, it finally was getting too annoying to use much after 8 years, but I have a Windows laptop also so I wasn't in a big hurry to upgrade).

Part of me kind of wishes I didn't though, that was a lot of money I dropped there, especially with all the layoffs (my company had their first layoff a week after I made the purchase also).

makeitdouble3• 3 years ago

I wonder if we haven't hit the top of the bell curve.

Up until the M1 transition, the macbook 15" (and then 16") were already the defacto machine for any dev in most companies. I had colleagues who had to justify they could use Dell's linux laptops.

As of now it's more of a split, with those who stay on mac, those who move to "gaming" laptops if they rely on x86 or need GPU power, linux laptops which are now fully mature, and those who moved to machines like Lenovo's yoga line or MS Surface. Basically Apple moving away from Intel, freezing the form factor while giving the middle finger to GPU intensive apps opened the door to many other options.

jpeter• 3 years ago

Their EU pricing is just insane

noselasd• 3 years ago

Indeed, their pricing is way off, the low end models are too pricy for most non tech users.

When you start getting up to the models with 16gb ram/512gb disks, which I consider an absolute minimum, their price is jut too insane for many tech users.

fabian2k3• 3 years ago

Just looked at it, and it certainly is. I mean Apple was always more expensive, but the difference is just huge now.

For me 16GB RAM and 1TB SSD is kind of the minimum (I would buy 32GB RAM if I can get it for a fair price). I can get that for less than 1000 EUR as a Windows/Linux notebook with reasonably good quality. For Apple it seems to start at 2300 EUR with these specs, and that is for relatively small screen sizes which doesn't match my preference. Of course there are many more differences here, but this seems to be kind of the price floor for reasonable specs.

threeseed6• 3 years ago

I can get that for less than 1000 EUR

Please by all means provide a link.

Often when you see these sort of comparisons it's low spec screens, memory + SSDs.

ChuckNorris893• 3 years ago

Yeah, a starting price of 1500 Euros for a base M2 13 inch with 8GB of RAM and 256GB SSD is insane.

I had an Acer with 16GB of RAM and 512GB SSD since 2016 for something like 850-900 Euros back then and it wasn't some high-end gaming machine. Of course this Apple machine is much better than mine, but the comparison is to highlight what insane markups Apple is charging today on SSD and RAM configs that are years out of date. No wonder their profits are so good.

Also, considering how poorly the base single channel 256GB SSD performs on the M2 machines, I wouldn't be surprised if my 7 year old Samsung 850 EVO SATA SSD would actually beat it.

illiarian7• 3 years ago

I've always joked that if you want a maxed-out model, it's cheaper to fly to the States, buy there, and fly back than to buy in Europe (especially in Sweden where I am right now)

soneil2• 3 years ago

That's almost entirely Sweden having a high tax rate though.

I just priced out an M2 MBA with ram & ssd maxed out. $2499 USD in the US and 33009kr in Sweden. $2499 is 26163kr, +25% VAT is 32705kr. So you're paying 304kr / $29 more than the US price.

dogma11386• 3 years ago

That is if you don’t get caught at customs… you’ll have to pay at least the VAT on the value of your purchase and possible a duty as well.

So if you want to do it legally you’ll have to add 20-25% to the price which no longer makes it very appealing.

whitehexagon• 3 years ago

I've avoided M series for this reason, and the more proprietary/locked down design... but also it seems like all we do with these upgrades is encourage more software bloat, especially on the browser side.

Environmentally I also dont like the push for minor increments every year across their range of products, and then forced 'obsolete' rating for perfectly working devices. I have a box full already thanks. I hope to use my current machine until it physically breaks, and then switch to open-hardware.

Tagbert3• 3 years ago

The "obsolete" designation is only for models that are several years old and it just means that they will no longer get software updates. You are free to keep using them as long as you like.

No one is expecting you to buy a new laptop every year, even if Apple does updates each year. Other people are buying new machines on their own timelines that do not synchronize with you. They are able to get the latest machine available when they are ready to buy.

Cars are updated every year but you don't feel the same pressure to update, do you?

vishnugupta2• 3 years ago

Same in India. So much so that they are now being smuggled into India[1], there's a hefty profit to be made.

[1] https://appleinsider.com/articles/21/07/09/iphones-worth-134...

https://www.republicworld.com/india-news/general-news/in-mum...

vachina• 3 years ago

I wanted to adopt MacOS… but I quickly realized how bad an idea it’s going to be… the M1 would probably sit unused in the shelf after the first week.

andyferris• 3 years ago

Why a bad idea?

danielrpa• 3 years ago

I've been using a Mac M1 for over a year at work because my company likes Mac. I particularly would love to have Windows as an option.

I feel that everything is just a little harder and slower in MacOS vs Windows - one very obvious and memorable problem is the massive installation times for OS updates. Overall, as a result of a number of annoyances here and there, I'm less productive with a Mac despite its great hardware.

betaby• 3 years ago

Non the op, but for the that was the expectation. Compared to the well polished IOS/IpadOS MacOS looks and feels very dated.

smoldesu3• 3 years ago

Just speaking for my own experiences, I have witnessed shops spend ridiculous amounts of time (100+ monthly man hours) porting to MacOS and never using it in production. For a lot of people (particularly those deploying to Linux), debugging for 2 distinct UNIX systems is a waste of time.

client4• 3 years ago

I'd be interested in a Mac once Linux is viable on it. OSX feels outright hostile to power users at this point.

_hao2• 3 years ago

I've used a Mac in my previous job and it was OK experience. The M1's hardware is truly great (I bought one for myself as well, since I didn't have a laptop at the time) and I like the portability. There are a lot of smaller features that I really like, but the overall experience for development is just not there. I use mostly my desktop setup for dev work. I can attach different machines to my monitor or use picture in picture or side by side (49" ultrawide). Last year I was back on Linux for a few months to see if that was going to be "the year of the Linux desktop" for me. I've done this every year for a few months for the past decade. However, unfortunately yet again I've went back to Windows 10. The same nagging issues with things just randomly stopping working on Linux keep showing up after time. Ten years of the same thing. Windows (with WSL) despite all of its flaws and bullshit seems to be the best OS for development. I find that very sad to be honest.

davidmurdoch• 3 years ago

I'm switching back to Windows after 5 yrs on Linux. There are many things Linux is not just better at, but so many things windows just can't do (because devs haven't bother to make it work). Do you find that wsl is all you need to run all the dev tooling and software for development, or do you have to spin up a Linux VM?

Someone• 3 years ago

s/power users/OS tinkerers. Not everybody who tinkers with their OS is a power user, and there are power users that (more or less) only care about how well Excel runs.

I also think “feels hostile” is the right expression. Apple isn’t hostile to OS tinkerers, but has different priorities, and doesn’t cater for them as much as they would want.

threeseed6• 3 years ago

Not sure what your definition of a power user is. But I have root access, can install every UNIX package under the sun with homebrew and can disable all security protections as needed.

I also have a Linux workstation and I can't name anything it can do that my MacBook can't other than playing with niche technologies e.g. NVMEoF, Octane.

smoldesu3• 3 years ago

can install every UNIX package under the sun with homebrew

Even this one? https://www.nvidia.com/en-us/drivers/unix/

blep_• 3 years ago

Can I replace the window manager with i3/sway?

illiarian7• 3 years ago

I've used Macbooks as my primary system since 2008. No idea what you're about.

Though there is one decidedly hostile decision: effing XCode Commandline Tools.

jillesvangurp• 3 years ago

Apple hardware has a lot more capability than their software allows you to use. If Apple was interested in growing their market share further, there are a lot of gains are to be had in supporting non Apple software platforms on Apple hardware. Linux is an obvious one because of Asahi Linux. They've done a lot of the hard work already despite Apple not lifting a finger. Imagine how well that could work with a little Apple support. Even just unofficially. Share a bit of documentation, toss in a few developer resources, etc. Not that hard.

Making sure their CPU/GPUs work perfectly with e.g. Steam and making sure that game studios are able to target Apple hardware would make a lot of difference for their appeal to gamers. Steam, of course, is also starting to work in Asahi Linux as well. There is really no good technical reason why that couldn't work on Mac OS natively.

Of course the same reason that this is a good idea also means Apple won't do it because they seem to prefer controlling their software ecosystem at the cost of failing to grow it. So Metal is nice but completely useless for gaming, or indeed most consumer focused use cases involving 3D (except for the Apple sanctioned ones). OpenCL/OpenGL barely work at this point. Forget about vulkan or directx. The whole AR/VR thing is perpetually not happening at all on Apple hardware. Until such time that they choose to release some Apple branded hardware for this of course. They are also not really investing in making their AI optimized hardware work for mainstream AI developers. Etc.

Anyway, Apple could make a really nice gaming focused console based on e.g. the mac mini. Not that hard. It would not require a lot of changes. Basically beef up the Apple TV UI, make sure games actually can be ported to it, and job done. Not that hard. But as long as their OS is locked down and developer hostile, none of that will happen.

Godel_unicode2• 3 years ago

It would not require a lot of changes.

It would require Apple to stop being Apple. Give up their App Store revenue (Steam) and give up their proprietary 3D API in favor of a standard? Might as well ask for a Start button.

driscoll42• 3 years ago

I'd be interested if I could run Windows. I vastly prefer the Windows OS experience to OSX. I got a MacBook for work and tried it for five months and exchanged it, very happy with the choice.

ThorsBane3• 3 years ago

I am curious what examples of power usage you are thinking of.

tough2• 3 years ago

I made the jump a couple days back, and Asahi Linux for M1's is great, it's not everything fully supported, but nice to have alongside mac for a more work OS

pjmlp6• 3 years ago

Once upon a time, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MkLinux

I rather use the NeXTSTEP heritage.

andyjohnson02• 3 years ago

How many people actually need the perf of an M1 or M2-based laptop? I see a lot of excited stuff about running ML models on Apple silicon, but not much about how it benefits ordinary tech users running compile workloads or whatever, and nothing at all about people running standard applications.

The hardware is great, I'm just not convinced that the price/performance delivers a big enough market.

rjzzleep• 3 years ago

I got my wife to upgrade to an M1. I still have a haswell i7 and responsiveness of on a different scale. But to be fair, I had to use a ROG zen machine while my Lenovo was in repair and it felt close in responsiveness.

matwood• 3 years ago

When I went from my Intel MBP (was the prior gen) to my first M1 MBA it cut my java test suite times in 1/2. I dug in thinking something was broken, but nope, it was that much faster.

As another poster said, I bought a M1 Max, 64gb when they came out and it still feels new speed wise. Unless something breaks, this computer should last a really long time.

maven29• 3 years ago

Perhaps non-tech corporations without the means to implement CI/CD would appreciate end-device performance gains?

Regardless, other laptop vendors have mostly caught up in performance anyway. Mobility might have a better case to be made.

threeseed6• 3 years ago

For developers who use languages that are compiled/strongly typed CI/CD won't help.

And no other laptops vendors haven't caught up. Their efficiency is still way lower.

Eric_WVGG• 3 years ago

It was pointed out to me about a decade ago that is actually the “normies” who need higher-performance computers than seasoned professionals.

Folks who know how computers work tend to subliminally optimize it, knowing when go quit apps, how to manage windows, patience with processes that logically take extra time, etc.

It’s the neophytes and dilettantes that run all their apps at the same time, have dozens of windows with hundreds of tabs open all the time, and are prone to freaking out when their system “beachballs”.

I coaxed my CEO — a business guy who happens to be in tech - into getting the M2 Air, watched a lot of his frustrations melt away. Between all the performance and battery life, it was a slam dunk. Meanwhile, I was running “compile workloads” on a wimpier 8gb M1 Air and sailing!

maximus-decimus2• 3 years ago

I agree, all the anti-virus stuff my father installs on his laptops makes it virtually unusable.

ask_b123• 3 years ago

have dozens of windows with hundreds of tabs open all the time

Sigh, seems like I'm a dilettante.

saagarjha• 3 years ago

My M1 Pro builds LLVM about as fast as my 64 core cloud workstation. This is pretty neat.

marcinzm• 3 years ago

The battery life is really nice even if you don’t need the full power.

andyjohnson02• 3 years ago

Good point. Having cpu cores that are optimised for efficiency is a nuce feature.

ceejayoz• 3 years ago

How many people actually need the perf of an M1 or M2-based laptop?

Give it a few years. Browsers and apps will expand to fill the available performance, as they always have.

CoastalCoder• 3 years ago

"What Andy giveth, Bill taketh away."

threeseed6• 3 years ago

I had the previous MacBook Pro i7 which was using for normal compile workloads. It ran so hot that I needed to put an ice brick underneath it in order to stop it from aggressively throttling and sounding like a jet engine going off.

With my M1 the fan rarely spins up at all and the efficiency/battery life makes a massive difference.

illiarian7• 3 years ago

How many people actually need the perf of an M1 or M2-based laptop?

Think of it as an investment. If it's tour personal laptop, you can buy a maxed-out M1/M2 and use it for the next decade (while throwing random shit at it like the occasional video editing, or streaming, or a side project...)

Dalewyn5• 3 years ago

How many people actually need the perf of an M1 or M2-based laptop?

All of them; the battery life of an M1/2 Macbook should be the minimum bar that all other laptops should strive to meet, let alone beat.

izacus• 3 years ago

Apples increase in sales in 2020/2021 was also the steepest among computer makers.

Are modern journalists and business people really so dumb to think that spike trends will continue growing?

tempodox• 3 years ago

No, but readers will still respond to dramatic titles.

JustSomeNobody2• 3 years ago

Not dumb, just generating clicks.

mkl95• 3 years ago

It took me almost 11 years to replace my i7 2600k and I only replaced it because I no longer use a desktop computer. Some M1 users will keep their chip for 10+ years.

liotier• 3 years ago

Home computer still a slightly overclocked i7-2600 with lots of RAM... Only now starting to encounter too many annoying saturations of the CPU.

ThorsBane3• 3 years ago

I dominated a base-model m1 13" for almost two years, pushing it through startup engineering workflows. It handled everything admirably despite "just" 8gb of ram. I still have it but upgraded to the 16" for the bigger viewport and high refresh rate, but the 13" is no slouch. I could see it having lasted another couple years for my web-dev workflows, although the display size/refresh improvements for the 16" were what I needed.

sampa• 3 years ago

good

maybe it'll signal them that people don't like their walled garden

the_third_wave• 3 years ago

That PC sales went down in times of economic downturn is not surprising at all seeing how as for most people there is not that much to be gained from buying a new machine over an older one - performance is sufficient. That Apple sales went down is somewhat surprising because this company occupies a market segment which is closer to that of a lifestyle brands like Prada, Hermes and Gucci than it is to a more standard tech brand like Dell. If Apple customers collectively decide the new cool is to be found in using 5 year old tech Apple has a problem which is can not extricate itself from by simply upgrading their offerings. They'll have to do something to capture back the "new cool", e.g. re-introduce the possibility to upgrade machines with a wink and nod to the "environment" and "climate" monikers, move production back to the USA and Europe with a wink and nod to "rebuilding the economy", etc. Whatever they do will most likely be less related to upgraded technology, more towards less tangible but more marketable goals because that has been a large part of what has driven Apple up to the place it is now.

hbn5• 3 years ago

The typical Mac owner was not buying a new machine every year or 2 before this either. I'd bet most people were using them for 5+ years for quite a while before this.

I bought a late-2013 13" MBP when starting university in 2014, used it all the way through to graduation, and didn't upgrade from it until the 14-inch Pro came out in 2021. Even then, it was still a passable machine for a lot of non-demanding workloads, but it no longer had software support and I'm a nerd that wanted to try the fancy new Apple Silicon for myself. I think my sister got like 8 or so years out of her 2010 MBP as well.

Macs have had good, long lifespans before this too (with exceptions for some budget configurations that were questionable value at the time of purchase)

lonelyasacloud• 3 years ago

Is what eventually happens when the platform (macOS) does doesn't have enough features being added to it that benefit from improved hardware for the majority of its users.

Could argue that's because macOS is being neglected as it's slowly being replaced with iPadOS. Could argue it's just what happens with converging to an optimum. Either way outside of video editing - and perhaps AI dev - upgrading from last gen pro Intel and m1 doesn't feel very compelling at the moment.

TuringNYC2• 3 years ago

Nothing to do with the article, but about the title: "Apple’s 40% Plunge in PC Shipments..."

Historically, I've seen the term "PC" used to refer to Windows machines (not that it made much sense.) Has the term "PC" been generalized to also include Macs now?

pjmlp6• 3 years ago

PC started as IBM PC, an alliance between IBM and Microsoft for their respective OSes, of course it made sense.

stametseater2• 3 years ago

The term "personal computer" predates the IBM PC by a few years, and was generally a synonym with "home computer" (which Apple computers also were.)

For instance, the TRS-80 was not an "IBM compatible PC", but was advertised as a personal computer. When these terms were new, they weren't yet technical jargon with subtle meanings. "Personal computer" meant simply a computer intended for personal use.

TuringNYC2• 3 years ago

That might have been the case at one point, and perhaps again, now, but i've see PCs to not include Macs in common usage for decades. Here is one example directly from Intel:

https://www.intel.com/content/www/us/en/tech-tips-and-tricks...

Mac* vs. PC: Choose What’s Right for You When it comes to the choice between a Mac or PC, selecting a device that offers the features and flexibility you need is what matters most.

Another example: https://woz-u.com/blog/pc-vs-mac-whats-best-for-you/ PC vs Mac: What’s Best for You? By Woz U|August 4th, 2022|Woz U

JustSomeNobody2• 3 years ago

PC has always been general (which means it includes Apple computers).

jeffwask• 3 years ago

High priced luxury laptops aren't a big ticket item in a global recession.

JKCalhoun3• 3 years ago

And I have low expectations for how a luxury augmented reality headset is going to do in this recession.

EricE5• 3 years ago

Good thing the first iteration will likely be targeted at developers and not the mass market then, eh?

somewhereoutth4• 3 years ago

As 'free money' is sucked out of the system (by reversing ultra low interest rates and QE), people are going to focus their spending on what they actually need - which often is not an Apple product.

kmlx• 3 years ago

or a PC in general:

Global PC shipments tumbled to 56.9 million in the first quarter, down 29% from the same period a year earlier

https://www.wsj.com/articles/pc-shipments-fall-29-led-by-dro...

JKCalhoun3• 3 years ago

Yeah, that's my bigger worry: that "desktop" (and then "laptop") are going to become niche platforms that only old-timers use.

I dread our only-phone future.

HDThoreaun2• 3 years ago

I think it has a lot more to do with everyone who was considering an upgrade jumping on the m1. Apple's macbook pipeline is now dry since most of their customers now have a new computer.

acdha3• 3 years ago

I think that’s especially true this far into the pandemic telework shift: that both forced new purchases for a ton of people who had desktops in the office and also pushed more work into cloud services for ease of sharing. Neither of those are absolutes of course but think they line up well with your observation, further reducing the number of people who think that they need a new computer to be more productive.

zamalek• 3 years ago

Not to forget the recession that we may or may not be past. Repo rates might be one of the earlier signals of a recession, but I'd wager that declining boutique tech sales would occur even earlier (even if they are only reported later).

mihaaly2• 3 years ago

Weird having an insightful factual beginning of a sentence just to conclude with weak and hugely incomplete speculation ignoring the bulk of the picture (Apple's all other products, what actually needed actually entails, ...).

somewhereoutth4• 3 years ago

Apple have been wildly successful in selling Rolls-Royces to the masses. In pretty much all categories they've entered, Apple are considered to be the premium brand.

However the masses generally don't need the level of engineering that Apple products typically feature - people have been compelled into forking out for it in order to status match with their peers (e.g. the green/blue text thing). Now times are tight, the Rolls stay on the forecourts.

(I love their design, engineering and attention to detail - Bauhaus for nerd stuff - and their mission to bring high quality to all. But I object to their walled garden, their cultishness, lack of configurability and, yes, the inordinate waste of natural/engineering resources going in to make what should be commodity devices, coupled with sucking money out of people who really can't afford it)

softwaredoug• 3 years ago

Mac laptops last a long time.

I have a lot of old MBPs accrued from past jobs that "just work". I can do almost everything I need to do with them, even most development tasks. So given the choice between a new laptop and an old one, the new one is really just a luxury. If my finances are tight, I'm definitely not getting a new mac if I can make do.

MangoCoffee• 3 years ago

i bought a M1 mac mini because i'm want to check out ARM chip in desktop.

IMO, Apple asking $600 for a pc with 8GB RAM and 256 GB storage is too much. i rather build a desktop based on what i want in the PC.

insane_dreamer3• 3 years ago

Still slightly higher than Q1 2020 or Q1 2019, so really just regression to the mean after the unusual spike in demand created by the pandemic. Source: https://www.statista.com/statistics/263428/apples-revenue-fr...

traveler012• 3 years ago

Generally Apple users don't update their computers too often, and when they released the M1 models a lot of people had models pre-2016 that needed upgrading (since pos-2016 models sucked balls).

So, part of that unusual demand was also customers finally upgrading their old MacBooks.

smni• 3 years ago

I’m still using a 15” MBP from 2012 for my personal computer! Waiting to see if a 15” MacBook Air gets released soon, as per the rumors.

insane_dreamer3• 3 years ago

I have a 2017 model; other than replacing the keyboard (for free) I've been happy with it (also keyboard replacement ended up being a good thing as I got a whole new top-case with it for free). Would like to get an Mx but will probably wait until it does (I don't "need" to upgrade at this point, more like a "want").

hbn5• 3 years ago

Also people that didn't need to upgrade their machines upgraded anyway cause the M1 jump was so significant.

I was supplied a decently-specced late-2019 16-inch i9 MBP for work when I started in mid-2020. Basically about the best Intel MBP that ever got released. Then the M1's came, I got a 14-inch base model M1 Pro (which I calculate to have cost about 1/2 the price work paid for my machine) and it runs circles around the work machine. I haven't run benchmarks or anything but in general performance, app startup time, even just how long it takes to redraw the desktop when I plug/unplug a monitor is night and day.

The Intel -> Apple Silicon jump is significant, but if you bought a specced out M1 Max or something, there's not going to be a reason to upgrade for a while.

api• 3 years ago

I mega-splurged on the crazy M1 Max MacBook Pro and can't see needing to upgrade this beast for... a while.

arberx2• 3 years ago

So the stock should regress to the mean by this logic since it's up 100% since then?

melling• 3 years ago

Nope. That logic might be correct if Apple’s profits were 100% from the Mac.

There’s this smaller device called the iPhone…

MuffinFlavored• 3 years ago

Don't you have to "inflation adjust" any value that is denominated in dollars (like this revenue metric) over time?

$1.00 in January 2019 is $1.20 in 2023 https://www.bls.gov/data/inflation_calculator.htm

stocknoob• 3 years ago

How much did the electronics category inflate?

https://www.statista.com/statistics/216055/annual-percentage...

insane_dreamer3• 3 years ago

Yeah, would be better to look at units shipped rather than revenue.

However, most of the inflation during that period came from housing, energy, vehicles, food, not consumer electronics.

pcurve2• 3 years ago

Here's data. # of Apple shipment.

2019 Q1 - 3.9m

2020 Q1 - 3.1m

2021 Q1 - 6.7m (111.5% increase YoY)

2022 Q1 - 7.0m

2023 Q1 - 4.1m

Apple experienced explosive growth in 2021Q1 over 2020 Q1 compared to other PC makers.

Lenovo (+59.1%)

HP (+64.1%)

Dell (+23.4%)

Apple (+111.5%)

Acer (+73.5%)

Where as Lenovo and HP declined ~15% in 2022 Q1, Apple managed to gain 4.5%. So compared others, Apple had more to fall.

Looking at the multi-year trend, the 2023 PC sales volume is returning to 2019 figure, except Apple.

Lenovo 13.4m (2019) vs 12.7m (2023)

HP 13.5m (2019) vs 12.0m (2023)

Dell 10.4m (2019) vs 9.5m (2023)

Apple 3.1m (2019) vs 4.1m (2023)

still_grokking2• 3 years ago

This would be a very good comment, if only it had a source attached.

pcurve2• 3 years ago

Not able to edit the comment now, but the source is IDC Quarterly Personal Computing Device Tracker.

They're quoted in a few different publications.

2019,2020 https://9to5mac.com/2020/04/13/idc-gartner-mac-shipments-q1-...

2020,2021 https://www.businesswire.com/news/home/20210409005459/en/PC-...

2022,2023 https://www.idc.com/getdoc.jsp?containerId=prUS50565723

moonchrome• 3 years ago

ChatGPT turing test

freeplay3• 3 years ago

To be honest, I think it's pretty obvious this has less to do with M1/M2 tech specs and more to do with the vast majority of Americans getting a couple checks from the government which basically cover the exact price of a new Macbook.

lotsofpulp3• 3 years ago

the vast majority of Americans getting a couple checks from the government which basically cover the exact price of a new Macbook.

Source?

And source that they spent that income on MacBooks?

pertymcpert2• 3 years ago

That's not obvious at all. Source?

makeitdouble3• 3 years ago

These are worldwide shipment numbers.

PedroBatista3• 3 years ago

It's not just the pandemic shopping spree hangover, Apple's hardware pricing is completely out of the market. $1700-$2500 for a median spec computer?

It's ridiculous.

jakelazaroff• 3 years ago

People have been saying this for literal decades. That's not what's causing the drop.

PedroBatista3• 3 years ago

Well.. now it is.

early 00's Macs were overpriced BUT they had the die-hard Apple fans which were mostly professionals with high income, then by the late to early 10's Macs were actually inline or cheaper than PCs ( and much better ), but in the last ~5-6 years the prices have been higher and higher to the point a large portion of their newly found market are being squeezed.

I imagine those people are not buying PCs in droves, but they are certainly holding to their older hardware.

HDThoreaun2• 3 years ago

The m1's were in line with the rest of the market, if not cheaper.

Terretta2• 3 years ago

Stats on 2019 vs. 2023 and Apple relative to other PC makers, shown elsewhere in this thread, suggest they are not "completely out of the market".

PedroBatista3• 3 years ago

Watch 2023 and 2024, prices will come down ( a bit, because Apple can wait and can't look desperate to move units ).

They are out of the market now for what they were expecting, obviously they are still selling products.

shagie2• 3 years ago

WSJ take on it: PC Shipments Fall 29%, Led by Drop in Apple Devices https://www.wsj.com/articles/pc-shipments-fall-29-led-by-dro... /// https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=35512716

mark_l_watson• 3 years ago

I have M1 iPad Pro and MacBook Pro. I don’t see that the new gear offers any real advantages. Same with my 3 year old Apple Watch and my iPhone 11 - every thing just works great.

I hope this sales downturn does not induce Apple to stop supporting older hardware.

fnbr• 3 years ago

I’m doing my part. I got a new work M1 MBP. Then, I was laid off, so I got a new personal M2 air. Then, I got a new job, which gave me a new M2 MBP. North of $10k in laptops.

Oh, and a new iPhone.

jeffrallen• 3 years ago

Because the rents are too damn high! Duh.

I recently started a new job, and the boss asked me to buy myself a laptop. I without thinking much asked "what's the budget, about a thousand?" He said gently, "Uh try for 600... Check out Lenovo."

I've now got a kick-ass Lenovo upgraded with lots of RAM and SSD disk for 600.

bloqs• 3 years ago

Given the other comments highlighting this is an editorialized headline, I must add that I found the M1 generation of machines to be absolutely fantastic. It got me to buy a Mac for the first time in 10 years. They convinced me to spend £800 on a machine with un-upgradable 8GB RAM / 512GB SSD. That's an achievement.

Naturally, I wanted to reccomend them to people (many less technical) getting frustrated with Windows machines. The M2s were at least 40% more expensive.

This is really not more complicated than this. Their pricing model was wrong. I genuinely would have sold and upgraded if they were priced similarly. But 2020 M1s didn't decay in price at all over 2 years. So what else could they do?

If they had reduced the M1s and M2s, they would have sold an extraordinary amount of computers.

corry• 3 years ago

Could it be that the initial set of M1s was just “too good”? Mine is several years old now and I have zero desire to upgrade to an M2 or whatever we’re at. It’s so fast and snappy, even when doing 300k row DB updates (to pick a potentially meaningless example).

Sakos• 3 years ago

ITT: A bunch of nerds who refuse the accept the role of inflation and somehow don't realize that 99% of Apple's customers don't know what an M1 is or what the difference is to an Intel CPU. As if Apple consumers haven't always bought their products even if the new line-up isn't a huge upgrade from the previous year. No, suddenly out of nowhere, everything has changed and consumers have all collectively realized they don't need the latest and greatest.

Are you fucking kidding me?

BeefWellington2• 3 years ago

99% of Apple's customers don't know what an M1 is or what the difference is to an Intel CPU.

I don't think that actually matters at all to most Apple customers. What I do think matters to most is the advertising that went into it that turned "Apple Chips" and "Apple Silicon" into phrases people actually using outside of tech circles.

They wanted one because it was new and different, regardless of what those differences were.

KerrAvon• 3 years ago

Why have this level of disdain for the mental capabilities of a huge subset of the population? Why even say this out loud if you must think it?

99% of Apple's customers can certainly recognize "it's a fuckton faster than my previous laptop" when they see it. Apple Silicon is across the board perceivably faster than any previous Macs.

panick21_4• 3 years ago

You don't need to know what M1 is, what you need to know is that Apple new product is amazing and fast and everybody that used it would tell everybody else how good it was.

nkotov• 3 years ago

I wonder if this has to do with just how good the M1/M2 chips are. I have an M2 MacBook Air and honestly, it's been one of the best computers I had in a while. Perfect size, works extremely fast for what I need and is built really well. I don't think I will be buying another computer anytime soon. I used to upgrade every two years but now I don't think I want to jump back on the MacBook Pro train for a bit.

switch007• 3 years ago

My 2015 MacBook Pro is still working OK but I could be convinced to upgrade. But not with Apple’s pricing. I’m just using my Ryzen desktop instead.

I think MBPs great devices - for my employer to purchase, but as an individual they’re just too expensive now.

spaceguillotine• 3 years ago

Still using my 2013 MBPr, no reason to upgrade yet, runs the last non cloud versions of Adobe so i'm not spending $50/mo on software I already own. I bought a M1 mini for a desktop at home, no reason to upgrade that either, but switched to using Inkscape for design work on it as Adobe wants monthly fees now and I ain't doing that. Honestly looking for older Apple computers so I can still use non-cloud Adobe software.

mistrial92• 3 years ago

second this - purchased and use non-cloud Adobe software, BBEdit, the nice terminal apps and a few minor things, on hardware that is at least six years old. I look for good condition older Macs and have a few of those that I keep safely.

Really big aversion to the "phone like" OS, secret changes to the filesystem, app-store apps, increasingly intrusive phoning home and other "modern improvements"

pentae2• 3 years ago

Whilst I agree with your sentiment wait until you try a gently used M1 Macbook Air one day. After a tawdry love affair you'll want to toss the hot noisy intel machines in the garbage .. at least I did, anyway

purpleblue• 3 years ago

I have a 2019 Macbook Pro I almost upgraded a few months ago... and then decided not to and stick with my Windows desktop and my Macbook from work. There's no real need at this point, I'll just keep waiting until something drastic happens like my laptop dies because my kids spill their drink all over it.

still_grokking2• 3 years ago

For those who, like me, have hit a paywall:

https://archive.ph/qehUm

tru3_power• 3 years ago

Could the tightening of tech companies also be adding to this? Less new hires/less frequent refreshers of issued laptops

GeekyBear2• 3 years ago

Given the fact that process node changes are coming more slowly, and TSMC's delayed 3nm node has finally hit volume production, I have a pretty good reason not buy in at the tail end of 5nm.

Apple Has Procured TSMC's Entire First Run of 3nm Chips

https://www.extremetech.com/computing/343291-apple-has-procu...

I think lower sales are a result of the previous pandemic purchase spike, along with the M1 upgrade spike, in addition to people holding off due to the imminent release of 3nm chips.

KSS42• 3 years ago

It's a bit odd to me basing a purchasing decision on process nodes. I would consider overall product features rather the foundry or foundry node in of it self.

In fact, I'd rather being inclined towards n-1 node and not take the risk of being first for high volume manufacturing for a new node.

GeekyBear2• 3 years ago

It's a bit odd to me basing a purchasing decision on process nodes.

It's a bit odd to want a SOC with reduced power usage and/or improved performance?

Compared to TSMC's N5 manufacturing technology, the company's N3 production node promises to deliver a 10% to 15% performance improvement (at the same power and transistor count), reduce power consumption by 25% – 30% (at the same frequency and complexity), and increase logic density by around 1.6 times.

https://www.tomshardware.com/news/tsmc-kicks-off-3nm-product...

jonnycomputer• 3 years ago

ha, should have kept a 27" model on the line.

no, I don't think this is the deal (though the lack of the 27" has affected my hardware buying decisions for our lab), just re-registering my complaint.

andrewstuart• 3 years ago

God forbid that they should ever have to compete on price.

EricE5• 3 years ago

How are they not competing on price?

lowlevel• 3 years ago

I suspect some portion of this can more pixels or not, be attributed to the introduction of notched screens.

EricE5• 3 years ago

There are fewer and fewer reasons to buy new PC hardware as the decades have marched on. CPUs and GPUs have been overpowered for all but niche markets - and yes, gaming is a niche market. I've been averaging 7 years or more for my machines for a long time now; that was bound to show up in PC sales at some point. And i think people are still failing to account for just how muc mobile has utterly taken over most normal people's general purpose computing needs. Frankly I'm surprised PC sales are still as high as they are. I'm typing on a MacBook Pro right now and have zero desire to spend most of my computing time on a phone or tablet - but I also know I am in a shrinking minority too.

simplotek2• 3 years ago

There are fewer and fewer reasons to buy new PC hardware as the decades have marched on.

If Apple provided a way to use Mac minis to serve as distributed compile caching and distributed build tool, I'd have a reason to buy some.

Also, mac minis are expensive when compared with other miniPCs in the market. There are some ryzen5/core i5 systems with 16 and 32GB of RAM shipping with Windows 11 being sold right now on Amazon for 300-500€. If all you want to do is run stuff in a browser and do work then you'd be hard pressed to find a reason to buy a Mac mini, let alone a Mac studio.

Apple’s plunge in PC shipments is steepest among major computer makers

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