2018 MacBook Pro Review

http://hrtapps.com/blogs/20180712/

by bluedino • 8 years ago

212 481 8 years ago

hrtapps.com

some_account• 8 years ago

A review where it's not being compared against other laptops but against older macs is only marginally useful.

Of course it's going to be faster. The problem with Mac is not that it's slow, it's the lack of innovation.

grzm2• 8 years ago

"is only marginally useful."

To you. A review can't (and arguably shouldn't) be everything to everyone. For example, for those who are flexible in the operating system they use, it would make more sense to compare with different manufacturer's products; for those who are interested in using macOS, it the review as written makes more sense. The first sentence of the piece is "I’ve been using Mac laptops for a long time, going back to the very first portable Apple ever made": it's unlikely they're writing to the former audience. You may not be the intended audience, and that's okay. There are likely reviews out there that address the questions that interest you. This just happens not to be one of them.

bluedino4• 8 years ago

the benchmarks also pretty much scale with cpu core count. I’d like to see some web, compilation, video and photoshop benchmarks, stuff people with Macs actually do.

Fomite4• 8 years ago

For those of us considering upgrading from an older Mac, it's quite useful.

jen205• 8 years ago

This is the exact comparison I want - to know in which ways it is different from what I have now.

I'm not going to switch away from MacOS on my daily use machine (though do have various ThinkPads with FreeBSD and so forth), so comparison to the hardware other manufacturers hardware produce is irrelevant to me.

geophile2• 8 years ago

So they’ve caught up to Windows laptops on specs but still have that abomination of a keyboard. After all the complaints.

neonscribe• 8 years ago

The report is that the keyboard is not the same. Quieter, but not necessarily more reliable. Reliability remains to be seen. Keep in mind that the uproar over keyboard problems started far too recently to have affected the design of the 2018 version.

wll• 8 years ago

The ~2016-designed [0] third-generation butterfly keyboard (MacBook Pro 2018) features a silicone membrane [1] designed to «prevent and/or alleviate contaminant ingress» [0] thereby softening or preventing dust-caused key failure.

[0] http://pdfaiw.uspto.gov/.aiw?docid=20180068808

[1] https://ifixit.org/blog/10279/apple-macbook-keyboard-cover-u...

threeseed• 8 years ago

Apple would've known about the keyboard issue in the first days/weeks after launch.

They have repair rate metrics coming from the Apple Stores.

Especially since fixing the keyboard requires an entire top case which are really expensive.

inferiorhuman• 8 years ago

Has Apple fixed the layouts? I found the arrow keys particularly vexxing (in addition to wanting more travel, less noise, and more durability). When the keyboard died on my old black MacBook I bought a box of top cases on that auction site and replaced it.

Has Apple started bundling cables with their charges? With my mid-2012 MBP I can buy a gen 1 MagSafe charger and it'll have everything it needs to work with the computer. Last I checked the USB-C chargers aren't any cheaper, but they don't come with a cable that will connect it to a computer. The cable, of course, is another $30 or so.

brandonjm• 8 years ago

the uproar over keyboard problems started far too recently to have affected the design of the 2018 version.

The lawsuits were more recent, but Apple has known about the issue long before designing the 2018 MBP. This keyboard was on the 2015 MacBook and people have been complaining since early 2017 about the MBP.

geophile2• 8 years ago

TFA (and other reporting) says the keyboard is marginally more reliable. But 1) it's still a keyboard with almost no travel, and 2) not only is the touchbar still there, but the non-touchbar option is gone.

knolan2• 8 years ago

It’s shocking how expensive Macs have gotten. I paid around €2300 for my 2014 15” and today’s equivalent tier is over €3k. For this I get a faster thinner machine without MagSafe and a variety of ports.

It seems that the only viable upgrade path is to convince your employer to stump up the cash.

agumonkey5• 8 years ago

because the 'market' decided that style was valueable and io was meh.

a bit like cellphones with glued batteries, they removed 'user replaceable' for thinness.

matt4077• 8 years ago

...which happened just around the time batteries became good enough for both daily use, as well as a phone’s typical lifespan.

10 years or so ago, a three-year old cell phone battery would still be good for maybe three or four hours per charge. Today, I’m using a 5-year old iPhone that still gets through a typical day on a single charge.

There are also battery cases, or external battery banks, whose introduction has solved most people’s battery-related questions, except “why are people still complaining about non-removable batteries?”

JumpCrisscross2• 8 years ago

they removed 'user replaceable' for thinness

Also better water resistance.

bollockitis• 8 years ago

Thinness does have some value for phones. For laptops, there's certainly a market for ultra portable machines but Apple seems to have forgotten that some of us use our computers for work and are willing to trade off thinness for practical usability.

bluedino4• 8 years ago

Macs have never been cheap. There was a period where the Air (at < $999) and the 13” Pro (at $1199) were fantastic deals.

Let’s go back in time to when the choices were the $1799 12” PowerBook, $2199 15” PowerBook, or the $1299 iBook

knolan2• 8 years ago

I guess that’s it. I bought my first Mac in 2010, a 13” MBP for £800 and sold it in 2014 for €600 which made it a fantastic value machine.

csydas• 8 years ago

Truthfully, it's why I'm very sad that the Air looks to be discontinued. I'm still using a 2012 MacBook Air, and it was quite possibly the least stressful computer purchase I ever made. $1000 and some change to get a computer that has just worked magnificently for nearly 6 years now without missing a beat. I walked into an Apple Store, told the Apple employee I wanted a 4 gb MacBook Air, and in 5 minutes I walked out with one, no other pressure or sales pitches.

It was a very relaxed experience for me, and I certainly hope that it's still the same with Apple. $1000 isn't chump change, but it's accessible for someone just a little above the poverty line like me.

sircastor• 8 years ago

I remember looking through some numbers and realizing that my father paid somewhere around $6000 for our IIci in 1989.

freehunter3• 8 years ago

I just looked at Apple's US site and the base model 13" MBP is $1299 brand new. So the "fantastic deal" $1199 MBP is only $100 less than today's 13" MBP straight from Apple with no discount.

copperx6• 8 years ago

When I bought my 2012 MBP just after it was announced, it was a screaming deal. Retina screen (no other laptop had such hi-res screens), 256GB SSD base, 8GB RAM. That was the lowest configuration and it was $2400. Six years later, the $2400 model buys you basically the same laptop, same 256GB storage, except with a faster processor and faster 16GB RAM.

BugsJustFindMe5• 8 years ago

It’s shocking how expensive Macs have gotten

Expensive now? A Quadra 950 in 1992 had a starting price of $7200 (1992 dollars) and that didn't include any hard drive. That's almost $13000 or more than €11000 today for the basically empty base model before several thousand more to upgrade RAM and add storage.

stefano• 8 years ago

That's a very unfair comparison. You need to compare the relative price against comparable laptops produced today.

Also Apple seems to be the first laptop producer to raise prices instead of lowering them. In 2010, I could get a MacBook for 1000 euros. The equivalent laptop upgraded to today's standards would cost 2-3 times that.

wux2• 8 years ago

In July 2014, the U.S. dollar was worth around 0.73 euros; today, it is worth about 0.86 euros. In January of last year, it was worth about 0.95 euros, and Apple obviously has an incentive to account for possible short-term exchange fluctuations.

2300 / 0.73 * 0.86 = ~2710

2300 / 0.73 * 0.95 = ~2993

It would appear that currency fluctuations account for a significant portion of that price difference that you're seeing.

chx3• 8 years ago

I have no idea what your calculations are trying to be, let me try it myself, it should be very simple:

In 2014, a 2300 EUR laptop was 2300 / 0.73 = ~3150 USD or so.

Today, a 3000 EUR laptop is 3000 / 0.86 = ~3500 USD or so.

So no, just the exchange ratio does not explain this. The US inflation numbers, however, say 3150 in 2014 was 3353 USD in 2018 so that's closer.

gaius3• 8 years ago

It’s shocking how expensive Macs have gotten.

Yes it’s strange. I would always buy upper-end kit for personal use for most of my adult life, had a succession of MBPs but now - even tho’ I earn more than I did in those days - I balk at the cost and have put off upgrading for a long time.

Disclaimer: I did recently upgrade and not to a Mac, for once.

rz2k• 8 years ago

It weighs half a pound less, and each extra charger you get costs $30 rather than $80.

submeta• 8 years ago

Actually, I pay that extra amount without hesitation. Thinking of the times when I constantly had to fiddle around with my Windows ThinkPad or my Ubuntu ThinkPad, time is more expensive for me, so the extra 700 Euros means nothing for me. - But yes, you are right. They have gotten expensive in the past several years.

reaperducer2• 8 years ago

In my experience, the people who choose Wintel vs. Mac computers based primarily on price and not on whether it's the best tool for the task at hand are people whose time isn't very valuable.

I'm not trying to be insulting. But if you're using the computer for work and you can save eight or ten or twelve hours over the course of a month, when you multiply that by your hourly rate and then again by the number of months in a year, it makes sense.

I still have two client-supplied Windows boxes on my desk I have to use daily because the client's unusual legacy needs. But it's good because it reminds me of what the Windows ecosystem is like and every time one of them does something stupid, I love my Macs more.

The Mac isn't always the best tool for the job, but since I switched from Wintel boxes to Macs in 1999, I know that each Mac purchase premium will pay for itself in time and aggravation saved.

Entalpi• 8 years ago

I remember paying $1850 for my MBP late 2013 which was the entry model of the 15”. The ”same” model starts at $2800.

Given this was 2013 and I remember Apple increasing the price twice. One time because of exchange rates and one time when they redsigned the line a bit..

Note: I am converting my local currency to dollars (1:10) so the exact dollar value is slighty lower but you all get the idea.

21• 8 years ago

Rolex or Gucci isn't cheap either.

If you want to look successful, you need to spend the money.

satysin6• 8 years ago

I have a new 15" MBP on order at £3300. I also have a similar spec XPS 15 which cost me £2600. So yes the MBP is £700. The XPS also has a better CPU (i9-8950HK) but that is kind of a waste, I only got it with that because Dell basically upgraded me to it for free.

However I have had no end of issues with my XPS 15. To the point that I have had enough and I am returning it for a refund and will pickup something else. The first unit had physical damage to the lid so I got a replacement sent. The replacement has coil whine, interference on audio out. backlight bleed and the space bar has developed a wobble so does not pick up all presses. For a £2600 that is unacceptable. I know people like to hate on the new MBP keyboards but I have not had a single problem with my 2016 MBP. That machine is basically perfect and I hope/expect the 2018 model to be the same.

To be honest I am fine with pay £700 more for a machine that doesn't develop a problem with the spacebar after 11 days as well as all the other problems I have had. If I were to calculate the amount of time I have spent on the phone with Dell and waiting around for collections/deliveries I doubt I would be far off that £700 in time waste to be honest.

torben-friis• 8 years ago

To be honest I am fine with pay £700 more for a machine that doesn't develop a problem with the spacebar after 11 days as well as all the other problems I have had.

I'd argue that is a bad comparison. You're basically judging them both on a vacuum (since one is x amount more expensive but gives me reliability, that X extra is justified). but putting those two devices in context, if we take a look at earlier models, we see that macs have increased enormously in price without providing an equivalent amount of improvements.

For me it's more of a case of a company abusing it's status as leader, while others are unable to provide a real alternative.

mciancia• 8 years ago

I can't understand how computers with that bad coil whine can pass QC, especially at this price point. I bought brand new XPS 9360 for my father and when I first used it I thought that there is regular HDD inside because of how loud coil whine was.

gambiting• 8 years ago

It's fascinating to me that Dell STILL hasn't fixed the bloody coil whine on the XPS. I have the top-of-the-line XPS 13 from few years back and had the motherboard on it replaced 3 times because of the whine, and it's still there. In comparison, my 2012 Air was perfect, absolutely no issues.

bproven• 8 years ago

I agree the Dell XPSs are hit or miss on quality. I had a 9550 and after dealing with its issues moved over to the Thinkpad line (with Linux). Zero problems after that + better a much better keyboard than the Dell. I will say even on Thinkpads you cannot approach the greatness of the Mac trackpad ...

Maybe the 13" XPSs (dev editions) are better - I dont know.

I do think that if you are going Dell @ 15" it may be worth checking out the Precision line. Since this is the business version of the XPS it may have better build quality.

richdougherty2• 8 years ago

Apple has a strategy where they don't compete on price and it works well for them. They've been able to get fantastic margins while other hardware manufacturers have struggled. Their higher price reinforces their premium brand identity too.

Apple does build high quality products so the brand identity is earned to some extent. Of course, they could sell these high quality products significantly cheaper, but why mess with a successful formula?

bla23• 8 years ago

For Macs, in my opinion they used to build high quality products, but they're losing their lead. macOS hasn't improved in ways that matter to me in years and some things got worse. The hardware used to be untouchably good, but the new MacBook Pros are worse for me than the original retina MacBook Pro I still use -- performance hasn't improved much (the latest upgrade might have changed that) and keyboard, ports, power connector all got worse.

ams6110• 8 years ago

Every Mac user I know has had their Mac purchased by their employer. I think that creates a certain price insensitivity. An employer knows that the cost difference between a Mac laptop and something like a Dell or Lenovo is inconsequential compared to the cost of the person using it.

AmVess• 8 years ago

I had a Toshiba with a 233 MHz Pentium that cost me $2000. It wasn't hard to spec a laptop to $3000 back then.

Macs are expensive relative to some other products, but they are pretty cheap for what you get.

joshvm• 8 years ago

If this review sample was for keeps, then... lucky guy. The model as specced in the review (maxxed out) costs around £6k. Most of that is the 4TB SSD which adds about £2.5k on top.

copperx6• 8 years ago

Apple doesn't give anything away.

technofiend• 8 years ago

MPBs are expensive enough now I expect if Apple weren't so very protective of their IP we'd see a laptop equivalent of the Shelby / Saleen / AMG treatment done in the automotive world. Someone would rehome the MBP guts in a proper case with all the features Apple's power users really want and sell it at a huge premium.

However Apple being Apple they'd cancel warranties and shower Cease & Desists to anyone who dared to reimagine the MBP rather than allowing a licensed derivative. Too bad.

JumpCrisscross2• 8 years ago

Is the MacBook Air dead, then? Light and powerful isn't a valid niche anymore?

walterbell• 8 years ago

An article on that topic, https://www.scmp.com/magazines/style/tech-design/article/215...

TillE2• 8 years ago

The writing has been on the wall ever since they dropped the ethernet jack from the MBP. They're making the Pro as thin and light as possible, so the Air doesn't make a lot of sense as a product line anymore.

asdsa5325• 8 years ago

It has never been powerful compared to the price.

rsynnott2• 8 years ago

The current 13” is only 20g heavier than the Air, and a fair bit more powerful.

sneak3• 8 years ago

Unlikely. The $999 MacBook Air is Apple’s best selling computer.

kllrnohj• 8 years ago

Source? It's a 3 year old laptop at this point.

satysin6• 8 years ago

Not the best review but I feel it is more for others looking to use it for things similar to the author (CFD).

It is nice to see some keyboard and screen improvements though. I am looking forward to mine arriving on the 26th and will write up a review from a software developer perspective if I get the time.

notadoc3• 8 years ago

Touch Bar kills it.

I am a touch typer. I use the escape key constantly. I use the function keys frequently. Like every other touch typer I know, none of us want to look at our fingers to type anything, let alone to look down and navigate around a microscopic touch screen menu that requires you to not only look at your fingers but to move your hands away from the micro-screen to see what you're trying to tap on. I have no idea how they decided any of that was a good idea, let alone for a machine aimed at professionals.

I'm thrilled to see 32gb RAM finally, but I'll pass. Wake me up when they remove the Touch Bar.

pteredactyl3• 8 years ago

Yea, that's what gets me. Maybe I need to evolve, but to me the 'Pro' in MacBook Pro means you do not look away from the screen while working.

makecheck• 8 years ago

For me it’s not just that there’s no tactile feedback but that a lit/colored/app-switching display would force itself into your peripheral vision like some kind of banner ad. This means you are distracted into looking down at it both when you need it and when you don’t, meanwhile a real keyboard wouldn’t have required you to ever look at it.

Nicksil• 8 years ago

Agreed.

The touch bar is the only thing preventing me from purchasing my next Macbook. The keyboard, with all its issues currently, makes it a tough buy as well.

jen205• 8 years ago

This is simply "anecdata".

I too touch type, and simply remapped escape to caps lock, the same as the last 15 years, and moved on. I have had a touch bar since late 2016, and have not missed function keys a single time, while I have several uses for the touch bar.

I would be annoyed if the touch bar were removed, or the trackpad made smaller, or the keyboard made spongier, or any of the other things that people on here like to claim "professionals" want.

notadoc3• 8 years ago

Your reply to "anecdata" is.... your personal anecdata? That's fascinating.

Anyway I am glad you personally don't mind changing long standardized keyboarding habits by using software modifications to make up for befuddling product decisions. I think that's wonderful, and I am thrilled that works for you and a handful of other people that have a background with ADM-3A terminals, though you should really remap the 'tab' key to 'escape' if you want to be truly proper.

wildrhythms• 8 years ago

Can you describe what value the touchbar adds in your usual workflow?

bluedino4• 8 years ago

> I too touch type, and simply remapped escape to caps lock

So what about the function keys?

sheeshkebab• 8 years ago

Touchbar can be mostly turned off in macOS settings - I left only Esc button on left, and moved sound and brightness all the way to the right, with nothing in between left and right areas. And function keys only show up when I press fn button.

It’s really not too bad (although kind of stupid expensive gimmicky waste if you ask me).

chrisvalleybay2• 8 years ago

Rebind escape to Caps Lock, you're fine.

notadoc3• 8 years ago

Yes of course the user is the problem.

no1youknowz• 8 years ago

I've been combing over the reviews on youtube and I came across this link [0].

A teardown of the hardware on Friday, however, reveals a new silicone membrane encases each key that potentially serves as a dust-repelling feature to protect against malfunctions.

I'm going to give it a bit, but if it turns out to be the case that for dust at least the problem is resolved. They'll definitely get a purchase from me. I'll have to get used to the reduced travel after working with a late 2012 for 5+ years!

[0] https://appleinsider.com/articles/18/07/13/2018-macbook-pro-...

jetti2• 8 years ago

I'll have to get used to the reduced travel after working with a late 2012 for 5+ years!

I have been working on my 2012 MBP since my wife got it for me new as a birthday gift. I absolutely love it and actually just put in an SSD the other day and it is even more amazing now. I just can't imagine not being able to easily change parts on my own laptop and the fact that this is the last model to allow that for MBP has driven the price up relative to other model years.

copperx6• 8 years ago

I'm confused. My 2012 MBP already came with a 256GB SSD (lowest possible standard configuration) and it's soldered, like the RAM. Did you mean a 2011 MBP?

pteredactyl3• 8 years ago

Cons: Keyboard, Touch bar, lack of ports, cost

Pro: Great display. Build quality. MacOS

It's too bad all the cons except cost are new to the latest generation ( post-2015 ) MBP.

matthewmacleod2• 8 years ago

I’ve been using one for six months - in my experience, the keyboard is awesome to the point that I hate going back to my other, older machine.

I reckon there’s been a bit of an unfair perpetuation of this idea that it’s particularly bad, though I accept that some other people have different tastes!

pteredactyl3• 8 years ago

Interesting. Maybe I need to evolve.

rsynnott2• 8 years ago

It’s very different. I personally prefer it to the retina MBP one, which I never liked much (and which was a step down from the pre-retina one), but I can definitely see that some people wouldn’t like it.

Groxx• 8 years ago

Yeah, I'm the same. I really prefer the new keyboards, though there are clear durability problems (possibly now improved) and noise can be a bit louder than desirable (also now improved).

r00fus• 8 years ago

The only issue I've had is the large touchpad area. The keyboard has been fine for me - different and in some ways better.

And it looks like they may have fixed the keyboard issue...

jryan49• 8 years ago

I always hear people tout the build quality of Macs, but from my experience I see just as much failure with Mac books and normal PCs.

drusepth• 8 years ago

I used to see a lot of software failures on old versions of Mac OS, but it hasn't been as bad in the past year. I am, however, on my third MBP in 10 months due to hardware issues mostly around the keyboard/touchpad and the chassis.

lobotryas• 8 years ago

Yup, you nailed in. I think I can get used to the new keyboard (despite the messed up arrow keys and lack of travel), but the touch bar just kills the purchase for me.

I thought about making a hackintosh laptop, but it doesn't seem like there are super reliable options out there. Guess I'll have to bite the bullet and make my next laptop a Linux one (despite the pain that tweaking the OS or even installing some software can be).

gaius3• 8 years ago

Wow the Blackmagic is huge!! I had no idea they were so big! Is there just 1 graphics card in there?

LeoPanthera• 8 years ago

And a PSU.

Acen• 8 years ago

Keen in mind that Blackmagic sells a massive array of pro audio/visual equipment. From cameras to capture and playback, to format convertors etc.

DuskStar• 8 years ago

Wouldn't the fact that they're experienced peripheral manufacturers mean they have less of an excuse for their external GPU being oversized? I have no idea how else that would be relevant in this situation.

coupdejarnac• 8 years ago

Has the power supply been redesigned so the cord doesn't fray in 18 months? This has really irked me.

richdougherty2• 8 years ago

I wish I could upvote this for each cord of mine that's frayed - sadly only one vote. ;)

npunt2• 8 years ago

Since the 2016s were released the USB-C cord is separated from the power brick, so if there's any cord fraying you can just replace the cord w/o replacing the brick.

andrewmunsell• 8 years ago

Which also has the added benefit of allowing you to use your own cable that is either more durable to begin with or a different length. I have a 10 ft USB C braided cable that I've been using since day one, which is much more convenient than having a fixed cable attached to the brick.

etatoby2• 8 years ago

Too little, too late, IMHO.

1123581321• 8 years ago

Yes, for me, fraying hasn’t been an issue since they switched from MagSafe to USB-C. Considering a 2014 MagSafe nearly started a fire in my house (Apple had nothing to say about that, but did replace the cable), it’s been welcome.

BugsJustFindMe5• 8 years ago

After seeing literally dozens of frayed Apple power cords, I think the real problem was actually the relative softness of the old cable sheathing, not the magsafe part itself. The new USB-C cables are quite noticeably stiffer.

AlexeyBrin• 8 years ago

I'm curious what the author thinks about the OpenCL deprecation in future versions of macOS. How will this deprecation influence his CFD work on macOS.

I assume an OpenCL -> Metal 2 migration will solve the problem.

inamberclad3• 8 years ago

That automatic display makes me think about the bad experiences I have with the hardcoded adaptive contrast on my XPS-13 9350. It makes it unusable for pro grade photo editing since the features can't be turned off and the monitor therefore can't be calibrated. In addition, when trying to use the nightlight feature of the new gnome stack, the color temperature swings wildly with subtle color changes on the page caused by things such as scrolling, or highlighting text.

JBorrow• 8 years ago

You can turn true tone off in the settings.

inamberclad3• 8 years ago

I don't think that's the case on the XPS-13 9350 with the FHD (1080p) display.

prolikewh0a4• 8 years ago

I know Dell released a BIOS update that includes disabling DBC for my 13" 9370. Have you checked the most recent BIOS for a new setting that disables DBC on the 9350?

h4waii• 8 years ago

There is a hack to disable this for the FHD matte 9350. I applied it to mine, and it's successfully disabled.

Your mileage might vary, there are a few different panels apparently.

https://github.com/advancingu/XPS13Linux/issues/2

inamberclad3• 8 years ago

There's a whole bunch of things in that thread, which one is the hack?

scarface749• 8 years ago

For the life of me I don’t understand why most developers who work for a company - and get a company supplied laptop - buy a MacBook or any other laptop for personal use.

I don’t do any personal development currently. But when I start back on my personal projects, a 27 inch 5K iMac is much more appealing. You get more for your money, a nicer, bigger display, more ports, faster processors (at least for single core tasks), etc.

saagarjha7• 8 years ago

Some people value being able to move their computer.

scarface749• 8 years ago

I feel way too constrained doing a lot of work without at least two external monitors. Preferably three.

But the real estate of the 5K monitor kind of obviates the need for a second monitor.

AlphaSite• 8 years ago

Because i want a laptop?

bluedino4• 8 years ago

I haven't owned a desktop computer in almost 10 years.

mrep• 8 years ago

Because I want to work on my own stuff on the go and your company owns 100% of everything you do on their laptop.

scarface749• 8 years ago

I’m not suggesting using a company laptop for personal projects. But with an IDE up, a web browser for development, a shell, etc. working on just a laptop monitor is painful. I can’t imagine developing an iPad app on a 15 inch laptop.

scottyelich• 8 years ago

On Topic: I own a late '16 MBP 15" w/ touchbar. My machine has been serviced once to replace some issue with a failure of some motherboard component (not touchbar or keyboard). I'm am early adopter (hardware, software, gadgets, etc.) -- and I have the luxury now to wait many years before I need to upgrade again. YMMV.

Off Topic: (sorry)

I think there's a much larger debate around what it means that a company owns "everything" you do on (not via?) their laptop (and worse, the whole concept of owning all thoughts, etc.).

But, what really IS a computer anymore?

I boot off external SSD (for my OSX use). I do this while at work, home, friends, etc. I carry around an SSD drive that's small and light -- no more hauling laptops.

This usage style seems to break a lot of assumptions of what a computer with things such as licensing (Apple, Microsoft, etc.). Although it can be painful at times (if something requires GUI and the network bandwidth is low or latency is inconsistent), using a machine as a client (ie: GUI or GUI-less) terminal to access a remote (dev) machine is possible -- such as any client (windows, linux, OSX on MacBook Air) and iMac (or whatever) on the LAN. Prior to iOS dev (which requires OSX), I was using (windows) PCs and full screen VMWare to run FreeBSD, etc.

If I use a machine and ssh to a remote server and change something, does the owner of the machine that I used to do the ssh now own the thing I changed on the remote server?

I currently share my desktop via iCloud sync (and I used rsync to do this as far back as '03 or so), and split data between local and cloud -- so for the most part I can access the data I need from anywhere.

Many SaaS (cloud or not) can be accessed and used from anywhere. It's extremely frustrating to have to maintain so many different accounts to separate work from personal.

For me, at least, the "computer" is getting abstracted away and devices are just ways to access tools for doing whatever it is that I want or need to do at the moment.

tom_• 8 years ago

Interesting. If you play games, I can see the point - otherwise, I'm not sure why you'd buy a desktop for personal use! You're then stuck with it wherever it is, your desk in your spare room or study or whatever. A laptop, on the other hand, you can use wherever you like - and you can still get a reasonable facsimile of a desktop PC by plugging it in to a full-size keyboard/mouse/external monitor(s).

(I've got 2 x 27" monitors plugged into my 13" Macbook Pro. They're 2560x1440, it's true, rather than 5K, but I'm old enough, and sit far away enough, that I don't mind. Hi-DPI is very worthwhile when I'm using my laptop as a laptop, but from a distance of 1m it's much less of a draw.)

Performance isn't as good, but I've always found this an OK tradeoff. I like the portability and the option of using my PC in the front room. As far as performance goes, any development I do for myself, for whatever reasons, tends to be less demanding than stuff I do for money; and for the non-development stuff, mainly (e.g., now) me staring at the internet via Firefox, it's just not an issue.

scarface749• 8 years ago

The only thing I use an actual computer for is development. Anything else, I either use my iPhone or iPad.

A laptop, on the other hand, you can use wherever you like - and you can still get a reasonable facsimile of a desktop PC by plugging it in to a full-size keyboard/mouse/external monitor(s).

I posted earlier. But while a suitable MacBook Pro and iMac are around the same price, a separate 5K monitor is $1300.

I’m not too concerned about the hiDPI. More about the usable real estate when you push it passed the pixel doubled resolution.

Performance isn't as good, but I've always found this an OK tradeoff. I like the portability and the option of using my PC in the front room.

My first job when I got married a few years ago was remote and since then I’ve had jobs with a liberal work from home policy. I’m very careful to separate my work life (including side projects) from my home life so my (step)kids know not to disturb me when I am working. I work in my office.

As far as performance goes, any development I do for myself, for whatever reasons, tends to be less demanding than stuff I do for money;

The most demanding thing I will be doing is running Android emulators and Windows VMs.

and for the non-development stuff, mainly (e.g., now) me staring at the internet via Firefox, it's just not an issue.

That’s what my iPad is for..

blhack2• 8 years ago

It's become comedy at this point.

Many, many developers: "We hate this keyboard. It is atrocious! Give us back the old one please!"

Apple: "We have listened to your needs. The keyboard is now 8% quieter, and the touchbar is mandatory!"

stupidcar• 8 years ago

It's almost as if Apple aren't even basing their hardware strategy on what developers are complaining about on Hacker News.

bodas3• 8 years ago

I'd go further and say that Apple isn't basing their hardware strategy on the needs of any real person. It's a laptop with only USB-C ports (and the 13-inch only has two of them). You can't even plug a USB stick into it. The only people who asked for a laptop like that are working at Apple.

randyrand• 8 years ago

developers are not the only ones that use the keyboards on their computers.

keyle• 8 years ago

I haven't met anyone saying nice things about the missing ESC key... And the touchbar is too fiddly and situational to be useful, even to power users.

drewg123• 8 years ago

Or even a lot of other people, like professors.

My wife, the professor, is finally going to replace her 2011 Macbook Air. She was excited to check out the new 13" MBP. Then she saw the touch bar (without a real escape), hated the keyboard after typing on it in the Apple Store, and realized she'd have to replace the dongles she uses to present to her classes (VGA and HDMI). What really killed it was when she realized she'd have to have yet another dongle to plug in her mouse.

She already has a Linux desktop both at home and at work, and asked me if I'd help her put Linux on a laptop for her. We're looking at the latest X1 Carbon..

twblalock2• 8 years ago

It's almost as if Apple aren't even basing their hardware strategy on what developers are complaining about on Hacker News.

I’m imagining someone who went into a fallout shelter about 10 years ago, somehow only had HN as a source of news, and suddenly re-entered the world. What would such a person be suprised to learn?

I suspect Apple still being a successful company would come as a huge shock to such a person. So would the success of SystemD and Docker and Kubernetes and Dropbox and microservices, the complete takeover of widescreens in the display market, and the continued survival of Tesla.

I bet a stock picking strategy that invests in companies and ideas that HN users hate, and shorts the ones that HN users love, would be right far more often than it is wrong and would make tons of money.

doctorwho2• 8 years ago

Apple has never cared what their users wanted and they've never listened to them. Design, like shit, flows downhill. The difference between then and now that is Steve Jobs isn't around to tell them that the shit landing on their heads is really gold. As a result, they're not afraid to offend Steve and they're starting to develop opinions of their own.

danShumway• 8 years ago

I don't understand this. They're very, very clearly marketing the Macbook Pro to developers. Read their press release, they have a section devoted to Unity performance for goodness sake.

Look at the older 2012-2015 models - arguably the entry point for many modern developers, the devices that were so good and so reliable it cemented their love for the brand.

There's a difference between pivoting your target demographic, and just making a bad device and hoping professionals won't notice.

pasta• 8 years ago

Apple knows it will sell on looks alone.

So the hardware looks very good (maybe the best looking laptops in the world?). The screen looks very good (high res + great color). The keyboard looks great and some may even say that a hockey puck as mouse looks great.

This is what sells.

I also think that Apple never intended to serve the pro market. They tried some times but brands like Microsoft, HP, Dell and Siemens are still too strong.

alwillis2• 8 years ago

It's almost as if Apple aren't even basing their hardware strategy on what developers are complaining about on Hacker News.

Apple's market cap is over $900 billion on it's way to $1 trillion; so apparently the strategy of not reacting to every complaint on the internet about their products, including Hacker News, seems to be working for them.

If Hacker News had a built-in prediction market (a la https://www.predictit.org), I would have made a fortune betting against what developers are complaining about on Hacker News.

mancerayder2• 8 years ago

Unfortunately for us, Apple bases its decisions on expected sales numbers more than our feelings. That said, does anyone know if the sales numbers are stronger after these mean keyboard and touchbar (and dongly) redesigns?

TillE2• 8 years ago

It would be completely silly to look at sales numbers like that. There are far too many factors.

Now, if they sold two high-end MBP models, one with and one without the touchbar, then that would be a valid comparison. But they don't do that.

Someone1234• 8 years ago

Sales numbers lag behind consumer satisfaction.

Meaning people may still buy this MBP but decide that their next computer won't be a Mac, this means the "lost sale" could be four or five years into the future.

Plus there's the magnifying effect of "influences." Are technical people still going to recommend to their less technical family members a Mac?

My point isn't "Apple is doomed!" rather, any company, has to look beyond yesterday's sales numbers to broadcast tomorrow's sales. Hopefully Apple has the data to know if these changes do more good than harm.

Osmium3• 8 years ago

I love the keyboard, and I code all day.

It's actually my favorite keyboard of any I've used with the exception of the current-gen external Apple keyboards. I enjoy the light-touch and low key travel required to type. I find the typing more pleasant and kinder on my hands.

godzillabrennus3• 8 years ago

I bought a 2017 model in February.

It’s already had one keyboard replacement.

The . Key stopped working.

Can’t wait to have this thing replaced because the keyboard breaks regularly enough before the three years of AppleCare runs out.

kuon5• 8 years ago

I don't know how you can work on those keyboards. I feel lost when I am not on my mechanical keyboard.

cygned3• 8 years ago

I also really like the new keyboard. It’s definitely the best non-mechanical keyboard I have typed on and I really enjoyed using it. However, like five or six keys are stuck, space and shift work only if I hit them in the center and the 7 key has key chartering worse than a broken Cherry MX.

It’s a pity and I am looking forward to buying a new MacBook with a hopefully more reliable keyboard shortly.

nkkollaw9• 8 years ago

Nice try, Apple...

doyoulikeworms• 8 years ago

Same, I also actually like the keyboard. When I'm not using it, I'm using Topre switches or Cherry Browns. I'm worried about the durability issues, though.

I think the touch bar sucks, but I like the touch login button.

vbezhenar• 8 years ago

May be satisfied people are not very vocal on forums. It's hard to judge without significant statistics.

rayiner2• 8 years ago

The noise may well have been the bigger complaint among buyers than the key travel.

pippy• 8 years ago

When I first started using, I hated it. Now after using the old one, I wouldn't want to go back.

It just takes a little while to get used to it.

stanislavb• 8 years ago

It's more like parody. The moment I read their PR, I though - REALLY!? Am I stupid or Apple's PR team is full of hypocrites?

Aeolun• 8 years ago

Now Mac will be even more exclusive!

imron6• 8 years ago

I can mostly live with the keyboard, and grudgingly cope with the touchbar (too many accidental presses doing unwanted things) but please, please, please give me the old arrow keys back.

I'd also be willing to trade some thinness for more battery life.

jdblair• 8 years ago

I think the keyboard hate is severely exaggerated.

I actually like the new MacBook keyboard, except for the noise. I type, umm, vigorously, and sometimes I'm actually asked to be quieter when taking notes in meetings. So, 8% quieter is great.

Regarding the crumb problem: compressed air fixes this for me. I always have had to blow out my keyboards when the keys get shit in them. It's true the new one needs the air treatment more often. I'm ok with that.

The touchbar I could do without, but I have trained myself to use the virtual escape key. I think Apple should get rid of it, but I expect inertia means the touchbar is here to stay. If I were a vi user maybe this would be a deal breaker.

The biggest issue with the 13" MacBook has been the anemic CPU and I'm looking forward to trying out one of the new models with a quad core i7.

Edit: here come the downvotes!

razodactyl• 8 years ago

From my experience, I didn't realise I tapped a 'fake' esc key when using vi, it's in the same position so you naturally tap it easily. I think the only downside is you realise a moment later that what you pressed wasn't exactly right.

nkkollaw9• 8 years ago

Apple doesn't target artists and developers anymore. Photographers cannot easily transfer pictures, devs cannot type, etc. etc.

The sooner one understands that, the better.

bichiliad• 8 years ago

I think you can infer that they're trying to address some of the issues with the keyboard, specifically the dust-breaks-everything bit. There was an ifixit article[0] posted a day or two ago touching on some of those points. The tl;dr there is that the quiet aspect is a result of what looks like a fix for the high failure rate of the keys. They can't admit that it's an issue, likely for legal reasons.

[0] https://ifixit.org/blog/10279/apple-macbook-keyboard-cover-u...

lucidone• 8 years ago

I have a 2015 Macbook. I like it, but I know that my next work computer will likely be a desktop dual booting linux and windows. Containers and kubernetes hog RAM like crazy, my laptop is used at the same desk 99% of the time, and for the price of a macbook I could build a phenomenal desktop that I can easily upgrade as necessary.

kbd• 8 years ago

Yeah I have a (much) older MacBook Pro as my main home machine still. I've been wanting to replace it for a long time but as it has sat on my desk for years (I have a work laptop) I really want to buy a desktop machine.

But, Apple doesn't make one. I refuse to buy a touchbar-laden MacBook Pro or an all-in-one iMac Pro with a monitor I don't need (and a base price of 3 grand), so I'm thinking of jumping ship from the Apple ecosystem. I'm not happy about it; I just want iMac-quality hardware in a box (that ideally I could upgrade). A Linux box that can boot into Windows for games sounds like it's in my future as well.

georgewfraser• 8 years ago

The touchbar is such an FU to developers. It still hasn't found any real use. They're not rolling it out to other models. Basically, it's a little fun "experiment" that they've imposed on all their PRO users, thus demonstrating they no longer really care about this user group.

Personally, I'm waiting for the next generation of Surface devices to come out, and I'm going to see if I can make WSL work for me.

inopinatus2• 8 years ago

Without an Escape key I'm doomed. The touchbar doesn't cut it.

I tried a 2017 model and could only adapt with the daggy workaround of remapping Caps Lock to Escape. Unfortunately that is therefore in the "wrong" location for muscle memory for every other keyboard I use.

Sadly I have such a strong preference for OSX that it seems I'll be using the limping 2012 Retina MBP on which I'm typing until it dies completely, and then probably switch to a (nonpro) MacBook.

ntSean• 8 years ago

I also remap caps lock to escape; for a button used so regularly, it just makes sense. Heck, who in their right mind is using caps lock more frequently than Escape!

BugsJustFindMe5• 8 years ago

Now that I have a video demonstration, I feel obligated to post it any time I see someone complaining about the escape key. You can use escape on the touchbar by putting your finger in the exact same place as you would on any other keyboard. Escape didn't go anywhere.

Video proof: https://streamable.com/ao18b

Simon_says• 8 years ago

Apple could have added the touch bar on top of the function keys instead of replacing the function keys, and they would have avoided the entirety of the criticism. Nobody hates the touch bar, we just love the function keys.

andyfleming• 8 years ago

This is how I feel about it. If the touch bar were above the top row of keys, it could still be useful for innovative things like video scrubbing, etc., but yet let other users move quickly with physical keys for day-to-day tasks.

s73v3r_2• 8 years ago

"The touchbar is such an FU to developers."

No, it's not. Not every developer uses those keys.

j88439h84• 8 years ago

The Dell XPS 13 Developer (Ubuntu) has treated me well.

diek00• 8 years ago

I see they have also retained the massive POS trackpad, for those who have not experienced it, agony is a good word. Imagine typing away and next thing Siri pops up for absolutely no reason or the cursor changes position and you are typing in a new location. Jumping randomly regardless of what I have done. I am lucky I did not taken a hammer and smashed it to pieces.

sbenj• 8 years ago

Am I the only person on here who is bothered by the specs of the base models? For $2400 you get a 2.2 Ghz machine with a 256 GB ssd and 16 GB of Ram. That was seriously overpriced and it hasn't budged in this new release. Seems like you've got to spend well north of 3K to get a reasonable machine. That is way over the market.

The model in the review is fully loaded. Apple will charge you a cool $3200 to upgrade to that 4TB ssd mentioned in the review. Apple's habit of gouging on peripherals is not... endearing.

Also, aren't many premium laptops 4K at this point?

ebbv• 8 years ago

Apple has always commanded a premium for their laptops. Yes there’s competing specs out there for less but there always have been. I paid $3k for my Retina MBP in 2012 and it still works great for me today. It was a good buy for me.

If the MBPs available don’t seem worthwhile to you, no need to get upset about it, just don’t buy one.

nstart• 8 years ago

I for one welcome Apple's premium on hardware in general. It seems to make for a company that keeps its business model based on just their hardware. This is off topic so I apologise, but I've become rather disillusioned with how many better priced companies seem to be surreptitiously inserting constant tracking into their software and hardware.

jdpedrie• 8 years ago

I've always been happy (well, happy isn't the right word -- accepting perhaps) to pay what I know is a 25-40% premium for apple computers over a roughly equivalent PC, because I know what I'm getting in terms of quality, and the software is far superior.

I'm far less accepting of a 100% price premium while I watch the advantages which caused me to love Apple have been diminished. Seemingly every move in the pro line over the last several years have been to take away things that matter to me (replaceable parts, good keyboard, physical keys).

basica3• 8 years ago

In 2014 I bought the top of the line MBP for $2700AUD. To get a top of the line model now it's $4100AUD. As someone who loves macOS, I'm still not gonna buy a new MBP until the price reaches some level of reasonableness. I've been seriously considering of getting a Dell and using Linux instead and I may just do so if there's no budging of the prices in the next 2-3 years.

jtreminio• 8 years ago

I dumped MBP after 6 years and bought a Dell XPS 9570 15" with max specs.

Some slight issues on Fedora, and of course the touchpad isn't anywhere near as good as MBP, but overall very happy.

Bonus: Docker _flies_ on Linux compared to MacOS.

slantyyz• 8 years ago

> To get a top of the line model now it's $4100AUD.

Is that right? The Verge article I saw said a maxed out 2018 MBP was $6700 USD, which should be significantly more than $4100 AUD.

Source:

https://www.theverge.com/circuitbreaker/2018/7/12/17563840/a...

andromeduck5• 8 years ago

AUD also fell around 30% vs USD during the same period so that seems about right.

RugnirViking2• 8 years ago

Yep. I have a $1400 laptop and it's 4k with a 7th gen i7, 512gb ssd and the same 16gb ram. It's also 15" but relatively light. The only thing that bothers me is the single USB port meaning I need to get an extender if I want to use a mouse and anything else but then even that is an improvement over 0.

saiprashanth93• 8 years ago

which laptop is this?

kuon5• 8 years ago

Apple lost me two years ago. While I was a big macOS fan and developer, I now work under linux.

I was very surprised to see how far linux has gotten as a desktop workstation. Including very good apps (darktable, ardour, inkscape and even gimp which had an horrible interface at the time).

I still think macOS had a superior UI (I say "had" because I haven't touched a mac since sierra) and that the hardware was beautiful. But my main workstation which has 3x 27'' monitors attached to it, was less than 2000$ (without the monitors of course).

Derbasti3• 8 years ago

The exact same thing happened to me. Now I have a big tower PC for serious work (32 cores, 64 Gb RAM, dual 1080) plus a nice laptop (XPS 13), for a combined cost of less than this MBP.

While the Linux software ecosystem is not quite as smooth as macOS, I have found it to be quite adequate for my work.

kuon5• 8 years ago

The best thing with linux is packages. I use archlinux, and there are very little softwares I cannot find in official repository or AUR.

wilsonnb23• 8 years ago

How exactly are you calculating that your desktop+laptop is cheaper than the MBP?

64GB of ram apparently sells for around $600 right now, plus $500 for each 1080, plus $700 for a 16 core threadripper (I'm not sure what 32 core processor you're using or if you're using multiple processors, but the next gen threadripper will be 32 and cost about this much), plus $1000 for the base model Dell XPS 13 9370 puts you at a total of $3300 before we even get to the motherboard, case, monitors, keyboard, mouse, power supply, storage, laptop upgrades, etc. This also assumes that you built the desktop yourself while valuing the time you spent researching and building at $0.

Anyways, saying that your setup cost less than a MBP seems pretty ridiculous even if it is technically accurate when you only consider the "max" price of a MacBook pro.

addicted• 8 years ago

My biggest issue with Linux apps when making it my desktop was basic PIM apps. Any suggestions for those? Even better, are there any sources and places to hang out where you get this information for Linux?

One of the best things about the Apple ecosystem (which I cannot even find in Windows) are the number of Mac focused publications that discuss and critique the variety of apps available. This has been damaged lately since most Mac apps are now discussed as extensions of their iOS ones, but it’s still beyond what I have found on Windows or Linux.

Derbasti3• 8 years ago

Evolution may not be pretty, but it works pretty well for Email, Calendar, and Contacts (assuming that's what you mean by PIM).

Honestly though, email has lost a lot of utility for me in the last few years (privately; professional email is still strong), to the point where I am really fine with webmail these days.

kuon5• 8 years ago

If you mean email/calendar/contacts... I use thunderbird. It's not "sexy", but it gets the work done. The good side is that there is nothing I can't do with a bit of coding if I need to adjust some style or behavior.

I also use zim wiki for notes taking.

jimmcslim• 8 years ago

It is interesting that the review has a photo of the laptop in the author's most likely working environment, at a desk.

The laptop is closed and an Apple keyboard with PHYSICAL FUNCTION KEYS has been placed on top.

It is also interesting that the review doesn't mention the touchbar AT ALL.

wpdev_63• 8 years ago

Why would anyone pay 2k to use a crappy keyboard? It's unbelievable.

I still admit macos is a nice *nix os.

zmix• 8 years ago

So, Apple has send him a high-end model (32GB of RAM!, dedicated GfX chip) and the verdict is, that this is worthy of the "Pro" in the name.

Interestingly, he left out the price.

jhack• 8 years ago

The Macbook he's describing costs $8,379.00 Canadian.

$8,379.00

For a Macbook.

imron6• 8 years ago

No word on battery life.

kristianp• 8 years ago

By removing the Esc key, Apple declared its side on the emacs vs vi wars.

pavanky• 8 years ago

Knowing Apple, I wouldn't be surprised if they come after the ctrl key next..

sigi452• 8 years ago

Not really; I use jj now and i was planning to configure that for a while.

chrisvalleybay2• 8 years ago

Using the Esc-key for vi(m) is crazy nevertheless. It's a really long reach.

Personally I have rebound Left Ctrl to Esc, and Caps Lock to Ctrl, but an option would be to rebind Caps Lock to Esc. 'jj' is also fine, but since rebinding Esc to a closer key, I started using it a lot more often, where I would have used the mouse.

torgian2• 8 years ago

Man I like MacBooks, but they need to make one with a touchscreen, bring back the function keys and give me a better keyboard before I’ll buy a new one again.

toyg4• 8 years ago

Finally adding 32GB gets a big thumbs-up from me, somebody at Apple is finally listening.

I'll have to check the keyboard, however I don't expect any improvement - maybe it'll get stuck a bit less, but I bet travel will still be atrocious.

The MBPr was released in 2012 and redesigned in 2016, so I guess we might expect the next big iteration to come in 2020 or so; then it will take a year or two to work out the bugs, as it always does. This model is clearly the mature version of the 2016 design. It's a good time to buy.

grzm2• 8 years ago

"Finally adding 32GB gets a big from me, somebody at Apple is finally listening."

More accurately, Intel released chips that supported 32GB of memory with the power and heat requirements Apple wanted.

https://www.macrumors.com/2016/10/28/new-macbook-pros-no-32g...

toyg4• 8 years ago

That's not the case - the 32gb config in these machines is regular DDR4, not Low-Power DDR4 as the lower-spec ones. This possibility was already there two years ago. Apparently they just ship a bigger battery to compensate for higher power requirements - something that was suggested when the 2016 model came out (and promptly dismissed by the Apple faithful as wishful thinking).

Intel only shipped their first LPDDR4 big-ram chips last May [1], and they are not the type Apple would use (not powerful enough). It's possible that Apple decided to go ahead with this configuration as a temporary solution, and will eventually swap-in "real" LPDDR4 chips when they land.

[1] https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2018/05/intel-makes-its-firs...

djhworld• 8 years ago

Finally adding 32GB gets a big thumbs-up from me

Worth noting the 32GB option is only available on the 15" model and costs £2,700+

toyg4• 8 years ago

For a professional, that's a few days of work. Over 5 years, after tax etc etc, it's still a blip for what is effectively one's main tool.

An IT pro must invest in three primary tools: chair, monitor, and laptop. A £5K budget to amortize over 5 years is fair game, and in the grand scheme of things (traders etc) is actually very very low.

If it's to watch movies and play games, then of course it's insanely pricey; but then you don't really need 32GB, nor a MBP in the first place.

zinckiwi• 8 years ago

I don't begrudge Apple their quest for thin and light. All else being equal, of course everyone wants that.

But they have three portable product lines: the MB, and Air and the Pro. Surely the point of that is to allow them to differentiate? It seems strange that "thin and light" is the priority above all others, for all three.

I'd happily sacrifice a couple of millimetres and a few ounces of my 2016 MBP to a return to the 2015-era keyboard.

nkkollaw9• 8 years ago

I'm not sure everyone wants thinnes.

I'm working on a 3-cm thick gaming laptop and I'm about 100 times more productive compared to my old 2016 MBP, just because the keyboard actually registeres all keystrokes. I've also upgraded it by opening the bottom case with 4 Phillips screws.

People want thinness if everything else works. If to have thinness you have a laptop that you cannot type on, and you lose all your data if the logic boards dies (happened to me with that model), I don't want that.

nobodyshere• 8 years ago

Right. Backups are for pussies.

hmd_imputer• 8 years ago

Year 2018, price 2000euros, specifications: 8gb RAM (non-upgradable) and just 256GB of SSD. Most smartphones have higher specifications. That is just a rip-off, imo. Shame on you, Apple!

mlang23• 8 years ago

The keyboard is one of the last reasons why someone would want a laptop vs. a tablet. I loved my MacBook Air, but no Apple laptops for me until they fix the keyboard. But hey, I am sure they found a market for this stuff. It is just not for touch typists.

IloveHN84• 8 years ago

I still don't get why there's no 32 GB option on the 13" as a non-Intel card. Where's the "PRO" in this version, except the price?

jason_slack3• 8 years ago

I feel you. I wanted to downsize to a 13", but 32gb being only available on the 15" I had to stay 15". :-(

jason_slack3• 8 years ago

I didn't realize that the esc key was gone before I ordered my new 15". I haven't had a "touch bar" model yet. Why didn't the touch bar take off with developers? I read Apple said you can develop functionality into apps to utilize the touch bar. Why didn't this happen?

hartator2• 8 years ago

2880x1800 resolution

That's a bit of shame that they still haven't up since the introduction of the very first 15" Retina. Default scaling on the new 15" looks blurry as it's not 1:4 pixel matching.

hartator2• 8 years ago

True Tone adaptive display

I think I might buy it just from that.

imagetic• 8 years ago

I'll pay extra for a non-touch bar model. Seriously.

2018 MacBook Pro Review

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