How Breakfast Became a Thing

http://priceonomics.com/how-breakfast-became-a-thing/

by samsolomon • 10 years ago

247 193 10 years ago

And yet, cereal is in decline, apparently because pouring two things into a bowl is too much effort, among other reasons. http://www.nytimes.com/2014/09/11/business/cereals-struggle-...

throwaway_java• 10 years ago

Cereal is a sugar delivery vehicle, but juice is good as gold.

Right.

a_t48• 10 years ago

He probably means juicing, as in sticking fruits and veggies in a juicer and making something akin to a smoothie.

matthewrhoden1• 10 years ago

Since the article stated that 50% of adults account for cinnamon toast crunch I'm thinking it's because we're realizing that even if we do eat it, we're still hungry within an hour.

After building the habit of eating a solid breakfast, I noticed others followed the same pattern I did; eat two big meals and feel too nauseated in the morning to eat.

edit: the eating two meals part was during my cereal phase.

rhinoceraptor3• 10 years ago

It's really freeing to realize you won't die if you skip a meal.

jerryhuang100• 10 years ago

this article kind of lags for a while (at least several months) as in march 2015 Bloomberg business wk just ran a cover story of the declining cereal sales across the board:

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/features/2015-02-26/for-kellog...

and the last several paragraphs about "breakfast-denying" seem biased as there are more studies to support the importance of breakfast.

dpweb2• 10 years ago

Obesity problem as well. I know some people don't like to hear it, but breakfasts can easily go 800 calories and up. You are starting off the day in surplus.

joelrunyon• 10 years ago

And an insulin spike.

alatkins3• 10 years ago

You are starting off the day in surplus.

Generally breakfast comes after a 10-12 hour fast for most people, so I don't think this is the way to think of it.

Aelinsaar6• 10 years ago

Fasting, while accurate, is kind of deceptive too, since most of those hours are spent asleep. Very few people burn of their previous day's intake by the time they've woken up, or even close to it.

dpweb2• 10 years ago

True, I think a good policy is to eat when you're hungry. Not sure the body was necessarily meant to be constantly processing food all the time anyway.

bluthru• 10 years ago

I would be shocked if most people in our obese country don't eat after dinner.

to3m• 10 years ago

If it's 33% of your meals then 33% of your kcal isn't an unreasonable place to start ;)

I'd be surprised to hear that this is common, though. I was actually going to suggest that for this supposed most important meal of the day, the options for breakfast are not very substantial. I have a bowl of cereal (2 x weetabix + semi-skimmed milk) - all of 150kcal. Add a cup of tea and it still won't be past 175kcal. Suppose I have to get up early for whatever reason and treat myself to an extra weetabix to make up for it - 250kcal.

This seems to be enough for me (suggesting that perhaps breakfast's importance is indeed overblown - not that I'd like to go without it), but it's not very much. I ate a slice of quiche for lunch today that was more than that.

sn0v• 10 years ago

A lot of people on the go tend to grab donuts, bagels and the like which can add up to a lot more.

Aelinsaar6• 10 years ago

Dropping breakfast from my diet as a regular thing, something as simple as just getting started later in the day on eating, has been incredibly helpful in losing (and maintaining lower) weight. It's not the only thing of course; generally eating smaller portions, and moving my butt more are the other two keys. Obsessing over exactly what I'm eating and how much has never helped, but just eating less... it sounds simple, but it's what works.

kilroy123• 10 years ago

Also losing weight. I just cut my breakfast way down, to a breakfast bar, and coffee.

HorizonXP• 10 years ago

I've done the opposite actually. My breakfast is my single largest meal, with every other meal throughout the day being small. For me, my body prefers to have energy throughout the day, and doesn't like having food in my stomach when I sleep. Sometimes I go to bed "hungry" but at least I don't get indigestion or heartburn.

Aelinsaar6• 10 years ago

It's great, isn't it? I also like to get a bit of fiber and complex carbs in, and like you, some caffeine. Nothing huge, just something to keep the stomach remembering what it's supposed to do for the rest of the day. After the first week or so of doing it, I haven't wanted more either, how about you?

maxxxxx• 10 years ago

Dropping dinner instead of breakfast would be even better.

Aelinsaar6• 10 years ago

I just stop eating earlier, which accomplishes the same thing for me. If I lived different hours, I'd probably switch up my routine just like you suggest. This all started for me though, because once I got out of my teens I stopped being hungry in the morning. I think we all have to do what works best for us, in the long run in terms of health, but also comfort.

sridca2• 10 years ago

I'm on the same boat, except I had to drop both breakfast and dinner (2-course lunch, with fish and oranges in the evening) to maintain body weight without gaining fat!

I do this despite doing compound lifts (pull ups, dips, squats) while successfully gaining muscle strength.

Also, "Caloric Restriction: A Fountain of Youth for Aging Muscles?" http://www.the-aps.org/mm/hp/Audiences/Public-Press/2015-15....

themodelplumber3• 10 years ago

Thanks for sharing. I like your idea and noticed that big lunches help me through the evening. Can I ask: What percentage of your weight are you losing per week? I'm doing diet and exercise at the same time and was reading some ideas on percentages to expect/aim for.

emag• 10 years ago

Even as a kid, I had to drop breakfast. For literally decades, the several hours after I woke up, I'd be nauseated. I cut out certain categories of foods, and now I can eat whatever I want from the remaining categories, but I've also picked up intermittent fasting in the meantime. So now I typically don't eat until sometime after 4pm, with the majority of my intake at dinner. It's working well for me, but my wife just can't handle it.

hashmp• 10 years ago

Yes I used to feel exactly the same as a kid, and into my teenage years. Only really cared about having something to eat in the morning once I got into my mid 20s.

I work with a guy who says he still feels the same now, well into their 30s.

hyperpallium• 10 years ago

When I was multiday camping and bicycle touring over mountainous terrain, I tried skipping breakfast once (it takes extra time), and it left me strikingly weak.

Very different energy demands from office work.

themodelplumber3• 10 years ago

I had a similar experience when I was a bicycle-riding missionary in Japan. I unwittingly reduced my calorie count drastically one day by switching up my breakfast menu and had to return and refuel early. At the time we were riding about 60-80km a day.

pgwhalen• 10 years ago

I had the exact same experience. I was totally outmatched. Interestingly though, in my typical life as a guy with an office job, I average about 1 breakfast per month and have no problems with energy in the morning.

aznpwnzor• 10 years ago

I was just bringing this up as a possible thing the other day at work. It was always weird to me how marketed breakfast was. The irrational vitriol I received only further convinced me how much breakfast (specifically grains heavy) is due to marketing.

TACIXAT• 10 years ago

Caffeine too. People are proud of how addicted they are. I used to get headaches from it, I think a lot of people do, and there was just this wtf moment of "why do I abuse this stuff"? Great PR.

manopeace2• 10 years ago

I say we ban caffine and tobacco.

The war on drugs would be over in a week.

danharaj• 10 years ago

There's this idea that markets just discover and serve peoples' wants and preferences. It has to be tempered with the fact that our perceptions and even our identities are shaped by the information we are served with from birth. In this era, culture serves capital as much as capital serves culture.

usaphp5• 10 years ago

I dont know why but if I skip breakfast I will 100% get a headache later during the day. Not sure why it's happening...

manopeace2• 10 years ago

Dehydrated?

usaphp5• 10 years ago

Not really, I drink plenty of water

tracker1• 10 years ago

I get the same thing if I don't eat something mid afternoon... usually try to have a few apples at my desk and have one around 10am, and another at 3:30, having lunch around 1... I can skip any given meal, but if I don't have something in the afternoon, I really loose it later in the day.

steadicat2• 10 years ago

Do you eat a lot of sugar? I used to have pastries or cereal and sugar with my coffee at breakfast and sometimes throughout the day. Like for you, a skipped meal or snack meant headaches. I've since weaned off sugar and I can easily go many hours without eating or snacking. I no longer eat breakfast.

I suspect that the blood sugar spikes were addictive, i.e. my body desensitized and needed me to frequently consume sugar to keep my blood sugar level high.

Try gradually reducing the amount of sugar that you consume, and/or the total amount that you eat at breakfast, as well as the frequency of your snacks throughout the day. Eventually you should be able to do fine on two good meals a day and nothing else.

usaphp5• 10 years ago

Interesting thought thanks, however I mostly eat cottage cheese or greek yogurt with granola in the morning, I almost never eat sweats in the morning.

Grue3• 10 years ago

Sounds like caffeine withdrawal.

infectoid• 10 years ago

Personally I feel best with a very small breakfast (maybe just a coffee), large lunch and small or no dinner.

hasenj• 10 years ago

Misleading title. Many cultures have a concept of a morning breakfast meal.

Title should be: How cereal became a thing in America.

Where I grew up, breakfast was just eggs, bread, and tea (or milk-tea).

cperciva• 10 years ago

It does address the question of when and why people started eating breakfast. It just concentrates mostly on the foods eaten by Americans for breakfast.

biswaroop2• 10 years ago

This may be an argument against breakfast for the sedentary, but athletes on extended training programs usually need to eat in the morning. You're much more likely to hit the wall on an empty stomach, a few hours into your training.

secstate• 10 years ago

That's totally true, but I would argue the second half of your statement covers approximately 5% of the U.S. population, while the first half covers the other 95%.

I'd also add that I am an amateur long-distance runner and just completed a medium distance run after fasting all day and performed fine. Had it been a race, probably less so. But the myths of caloric necessities have been greatly exaggerated.

erkkie• 10 years ago

That is very much unsubstantiated, all kinds of athletes enjoy and thrive training fasted. It's probably much more complex in what's best for whom than just "much more likely to hit the wall". Type of metabolism, levels of fat adaption, type of activity, length of activity, etc all matters.

As an personal anecdote, I enjoy climbing in the mornings before having food, that's a few good hours of intermittent sprint type activity.

biswaroop2• 10 years ago

Sure it's more complex, but it you're still more likely to hit the wall. Also, correct me if I'm wrong but climbing isn't quite as cardiovascular as cycling for instance, and I'd be hard-pressed to find an endurance athlete who can survive with no breakfast.

dingaling• 10 years ago

Not just athletes but also people who exercise better in the morning.

I have to head out running before 06:00 ( ex-farm border collie dog still has early-rising demands ) so need to eat about 05:30. On a couple of occasions I overslept and skipped breakfast. It was terrifying, I barely had enough energy to make it back home and was shaking. All my body wanted when I returned was sugar, now.

So in my case at least a bowl of museli / milk / yoghurt and a banana is the minimum possible breakfast.

sz4kerto• 10 years ago

You can escape from this it you want. I'm mostly on ketogenic diet now, no sugar whatsoever and only minimal carbs-- I'm just leaving for a 20k run, and most probably I won't be hungry when I return.

jmarinez• 10 years ago

I've dropped breakfast for about a month now and I feel so much better. I'm eating a heavy lunch and then dinner. Lost weight and it wasn't on purpose. As a result I've been questioning a lot of our norms. Not only when we eat, but what we eat and why. Loved the article.

glangdale• 10 years ago

This was my conscious weight loss strategy. Stop eating at 7-8pm in the evening and hold off eating any food until noon or so, which gets a 16+ hour fast. I ate whatever I wanted (not crazy, but not spartan) and lost about 70g per day over a long period (110kg -> 95kg). This was in conjunction with exercising but I was exercising before without losing much weight. Not a very original idea but I was amazed at how easy it was (relative to 5:2, which gave me two workdays a week of 'thinking about food way too much').

noahbradley• 10 years ago

3x meals a day feels absolutely preposterous for any sedentary profession. There's just no need to eat that much (or that often) unless you have an actually physically demanding job.

hyperchase• 10 years ago

I need to eat around 3000 calories per day to support my powerlifting training, and if I don't eat something first thing in the morning with a shitload of carbs -- usually something like rolled oats, berries, and a few bananas -- then I'm usually gassed and feeling like crap by 10.

A few friends of mine fast intermittently and train in the morning before eating but it's beyond me how that is not just pure torture.

manigandham2• 10 years ago

A few friends of mine fast intermittently and train in the morning before eating but it's beyond me how that is not just pure torture.

Practice. If you've never done it before, it takes a few days/weeks to get used to. Also willpower.

hueving2• 10 years ago

Saying that willpower is a factor implies that it is unpleasant, which is actually agreeing with the implication of "pure torture" that the parent comment implied.

ChemicalWarfare• 10 years ago

with late dinner the night before this is totally doable even when lifting heavy in the morning. some competetive lifters especially if they were cutting to make weight 'go for the bloat' after the weigh in - pizza, whole milk, pedialyte :) and then all they have before the meet in the morning is coffee.

then there are the 'early birds' who get up at 5 am and have a 4 egg omelet before the meet. they disgust me :)

roflchoppa• 10 years ago

Same here, rolled oats w/ banana in the morning, I'm surprised that I don't feel hungry after eating that for a couple hours. I have to leave a gap of around 4-5 hours between eating, and lifting.

loeg• 10 years ago

It's just pure torture. I've IF and exercised around noon for some time and it's a struggle. Coffee compensates somewhat.

Keats• 10 years ago

A few friends of mine fast intermittently and train in the morning before eating but it's beyond me how that is not just pure torture.

It's just habit. I stopped eating breakfast in primary school and always preferred doing sports in the morning. Currently doing fasted weightlifting/cardio 5x a week first thing in the morning.

I'm currently doing only one big meal a day for lunch so technically that's fasting since 2pm the previous day.

VLM• 10 years ago

train in the morning before eating

Welcome to the Army, perhaps. Ask them if they're ex-mil, or are copying someone who's ex-mil.

25 years later the concept of exercising on anything but an empty stomach feels weird to me. Like if you put forth a true 100% effort how do you not puke?

wslh• 10 years ago

I find more insight and less conspiracy in "History of breakfast" from Wikipedia[1]. The Wikipedia article talks about different perspectives before 1800 since it is not clear why the article is talking about the American breakfast instead of focusing on different cultural perspectives (e.g. "Before cereal, in the mid 1800s, the American breakfast was not all that different from other meals").

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_breakfast

thomasjudge• 10 years ago

How did priceonomics become a thing.. this seems like a clickbait site for the more intellectual crowd, less trashy than say buzzfeed, but ultimately not really delivering much in the way of genuine insight. It probably doesn't hurt that the name recalls "freakonomics", another brand which, while occasionally interesting, is far past its pull date as well..

bgun• 10 years ago

Please refrain from labeling any article with a less-than-literal headline as "clickbait". I feel this lies somewhere between "avoid gratuitous negativity" and "complaining that a submission is inappropriate" guidelines; maybe I'm just tired of seeing the word slung at any headline even remotely designed to engage its audience.

jameslk• 10 years ago

I believe Priceonomics went through YC, so I assume that's partially why it pops up on HN so frequently. From my understanding they started out as more of a data-driven guide for pricing things but seemed to have pivoted to being another media company.

tokensimian• 10 years ago

They tell their own story pretty well. Informative and interesting, pretty decent advice in there. Of course, no secret sauce, but that's overblown anyhow.

I find their articles very interesting, almost every time. Really high signal to noise, even if their content isn't always about weighty matters. I rather liked this one about breakfast, for instance: it taught me a lot about the historical development of breakfast.

Anyhow, not to tout these guys too much, but I do respect them for what they've done.

http://priceonomics.com/the-content-marketing-handbook/

ulrikrasmussen2• 10 years ago

What would you categorize as "genuine insight", then? I found the article pretty good, well written, and it actually taught something about the history of cereals in America that I didn't know (the fact that Kellogg had purely moral reasons for inventing what later evolved into the sugary Kellogg's that we know today was pretty interesting!)

Articles that can be called "clickbait" are generally not very well written, misrepresents information, and leave you with a feeling of not getting what the headline promised. That is not the case here, at all.

Guildpact• 10 years ago

I eat cereal and milk as a dessert at night in place of something like ice cream, because that is what it is. People who eat cereal for breakfast are no better than people eating donuts or other sweets, it is just an awful way to start your day because of the blood sugar spike and then drop which creates hunger pangs.

You can combat it by having a proper breakfast focusing on protein and low glycemic index carbs, eggs, steel-cut oats, omelettes, etc. A favorite of mine is proatmeal, make some oats and then mix in BSN Syntha-6 vanilla ice cream protein powder, absolutely delicious. The other way to combat it as suggested by people in this thread is to drop breakfast all together besides maybe having coffee and a granola bar.

redcap• 10 years ago

I eat muesli at 7:15 and don't feel hungry until 12. Maybe people don't think of muesli when they hear the word cereal.

Symbiote• 10 years ago

Depending on the composition, muesli is either close to oats, or packed with sugar ("45% fruit!").

nierman• 10 years ago

I don't usually eat breakfast, but one of the cereals I really like is Heritage Flakes from Nature's Path: http://us.naturespath.com/product/heritager-flakes

I wouldn't consider it the same as "eating a donut" (the cereal has 4g sugar and 5g fiber per 3/4 cup serving).

wccrawford• 10 years ago

I was actually eating cereal as dessert for a while and got into as bad a habit with it as I previously had with ice cream. It took a concerted effort to break myself of the habit.

I think I even enjoyed it more than ice cream, even if it was raisin bran or something. (Though I usually add a sweetener, currently Stevia rather than sugar.)

matwood2• 10 years ago

I also eat cereal at night for a snack. My idea of cereal is not what most people on here are hating on though. I am not a sweets person so I gravitate towards the cereals with plain flakes, nuts, and dried fruit.

As far as breakfast goes, when I was in my prime weight lifting days skipping breakfast was never an option. Now that I'm older, coffee with milk works on days I do not go to the gym. On days I do go I just have a protein shake after the gym.

matwood2• 10 years ago

As far as breakfast goes, when I was in my prime weight lifting days skipping breakfast was never an option. Now that I'm older, coffee with milk works on mornings I do not go to the gym. On mornigins I do go I just have a protein shake after the gym.

bbarn• 10 years ago

I started to read this with some interest, as someone who's spent many hours thinking about and trying different metabolic strategies, diets, etc..

Then about 30 seconds in my reading got disrupted by a fucking light-box asking me to sign up or log in or god knows what.. my instinct to close tab won out over my curiosity. Please stop this pattern. If you really think your content is worth having to (whatever)wall from the public, do so, but don't make me get into it and then shove something mid word into my face. This is the digital equivalent of giving me a magazine to read, waiting until you're sure I've got my eyes on it, then shoving a business card in my field of vision and telling me what you do for a living. It's a low rent tactic, annoys rather than grips your users, and it reeks of desperation to monetize.

edanm• 10 years ago

This company produces great, great content. You agree that it's interesting, from what you've read.

And yet apparently the most popular comment on their effort is that you don't want to spare the all-of-2 seconds it takes to click your mouse to close a pop-up? On a site that isn't plastered with ads, btw, and is generally very accessible?

I don't mean to take out my frustration on you, and I get where you're coming from, but maybe we as consumers should stop feeling so entitled, maybe that's the pattern that has to end here.

solipsism4• 10 years ago

Ve specifically said ve didn't mind a pay wall. Ve found the the mid-read interruption rude, which I think is totally fair.

cloudjacker• 10 years ago

I'm working on a chrome extension to kill exit intents, I'll share it

Retra2• 10 years ago

This company produces great, great content.

What they made is a spammy, irritating popup.

MAGZine• 10 years ago

Similar to GP, if one of these sites throws something in my face I'd rather just leave the site.

Not only is it often (though not always) indicative of other nearby antipatterns, but it's my small way of protesting the lightboxes. Same thing goes for interstitial.

I intentionally do not use any ad blockers and when this how you treat me, i'd really rather not.

pacomerh• 10 years ago

It really destroys the flow of reading though. These light-boxes should be more passive. I agree with the first commenter. It's super annoying and something nice becomes ugly.

Vendan• 10 years ago

Well, the other side is that it seems quite pointless. I'm glad it's a simple popover, and not a full page video ad, and it responds nicely to escape. But all that means is I've closed it half a second after it appeared, without reading, with nothing but a grunt of frustration over "yet another popover crap". Is that really the impression this site wants to make? Something unobtrusive in the sidebar that would let me keep reading, and then look at, I would be more inclined to even read...

chuinard• 10 years ago

Funny, I was thinking the exact opposite after I had been on the site for 10 minutes or so.

It's sad that you get sites making 'slideshows' getting 20 page views per visit for stupid slideshows like 'Celebrities who have had DUIs'. Meanwhile, something educational and informational makes 5% as much as those other guys? Just because I have only loaded the page once?

You can't pay wall it, because then you don't get the 50,000 visits from HN. It sounds like a really tough position to be in.

Retra2• 10 years ago

High-quality educational content has never been popular. So it seems a bit silly to try to monetize high-quality educational content through a popularity measuring platform, doesn't it?

ldpg• 10 years ago

Completely agree with this. I think there is an analytics blindspot underpinning it. We don't measure the amount of people inclined to just close the tab when they see this, or the negative sentiment it incurs. We might see a nominal rise in email addresses from bots and other braindead folks who fill in these forms, but the negative effect isn't measured.

LeifCarrotson• 10 years ago

I wonder if the time delay on these pop-ups is set to avoid being measured by the "bounce rate" or "0-10 second session duration" analytics tools.

This would be especially interesting to measure. While the 0-10 second bounce rate on any site will be somewhat high due to people just looking for something other than the page you give them (I see 50% bounces on a small business site with zero ads), and it's difficult to distinguish these from people who didn't like the ads or format, you could get a precise measurement of exactly how many people close the page within 3 seconds of the pop-up appearing.

fenomas2• 10 years ago

It would be nice if HN as a community could agree to take bike-shed issues like this "as read", and not quite so often re-argue them in the top comment spot.

Sure, annoying things are annoying, but maybe the site has their reasons, but maybe those reasons are misguided, but then again maybe not, etc. That's all a great discussion to have, but let's have it in the comments on an article that's actually about such issues.

tagrun• 10 years ago

Maybe that's a hint that links from such sites aren't mostly welcome here?

anonyfox• 10 years ago

Before Reading any article, just hit the "reading mode" Button of safari/firefox.

This eliminates every Source of frustration very effectively and removes distractions alltogether.

dTal2• 10 years ago

It's a pain to do, not always available, and doesn't always work properly when it is available (it's all heuristic based).

Far better if sites were readable to begin with.

jasonkester• 10 years ago

This is the digital equivalent of giving me a magazine to read, waiting until you're sure I've got my eyes on it, then shoving a business card in my field of vision

This is an ironic analogy to choose, seeing as how magazines do in fact do exactly that.

I know it's been a while since anybody read one, but if you cast your mind back, you'll recall that every dozen pages or so they will have stuck in a subscription card that you'll have to shake out or even tear apart just to continue reading.

It funny in a way to see that digital media has so exactly copied that.

icebraining• 10 years ago

I don't remember any magazine with that crap, but maybe it's a regional thing, I'm not from the US. Which ones are you thinking of?

HCIdivision17• 10 years ago

I think what makes it even more mildly amusing is how to deal with it. I remember shaking magazines out and pulling the cards out before reading. If you didn't, then the pages would get flipped by the siffer subscription card's paper stock and you'd be unable to read some article. (Literally, the page would just start flipping over - it was so goddam infuriating sometimes when the card couldn't easily be removed because it was perforated and left a little tab behind that prevented the magazine from ever laying flat on the table!)

agumonkey2• 10 years ago

My best friend is printfriendly.com

(Chrome even support url query generation from the url bar http://www.printfriendly.com/print/?source=homepage&url=http...)

oarsinsync2• 10 years ago

Beautiful, thank you. I've added it to my bookmarks bar next to my Google it! bookmarklet.

  javascript:(function(){location.replace('http://www.printfriendly.com/print/?source=homepage&url='+document.URL)})()

cronjobber• 10 years ago

A secret underground cabal of rogue developers is optimizing their sites for NoScript users...

sleepychu• 10 years ago

Firefox article reader mode kills pretty much all of that s*. It also makes articles much nicer to read, IMO.

delish• 10 years ago

fucking light-box

I completely agree.

I turn off javascript for sites that have light-boxes or large top-bars. It's worked well for sites like priceonomics, which appear on HN intermittently. In case it's helpful, the one I use is "quick javascript switcher":

https://chrome.google.com/webstore/detail/quick-javascript-s...

coldpie• 10 years ago

NoScript fixes this and does not break the site in any appreciable manner.

teh_klev• 10 years ago

Arrgh!!! and yet somehow your complaint about something, which is at best mildly irritating, has generated enough off-topic commentary that I had to scroll for miles to find the useful part of this discussion which is about the article's subject matter. Right now I know what I find more annoying, and it isn't a click-to-dismiss lightbox.

Seriously though, bumping our gums about this sort of thing doesn't get us anywhere, unless it's a particularly egregious UX crime. Have a moan directly at the site owners, not the rest of us, many of whom find these posts tiresome. Or install something like u-blocker or privacy badger.

TheBeardKing• 10 years ago

Why hasn't HN implemented a collapsible thread function yet like Reddit? I love HN comments, but this is my biggest gripe.

simonh• 10 years ago

I think bearing in mind Hacker News origins and community, comments like this are appropriate to the audience.

baltcode• 10 years ago

I think the priceonomics guys are regular HN participants. They'll probably see the comment and its votes/discussions.

npsimons• 10 years ago

Right now I know what I find more annoying, and it isn't a click-to-dismiss lightbox.

And now you understand. Maybe if they hadn't used the shitty lightbox, you wouldn't have had to scroll to "on-topic" content?

wyldfire• 10 years ago

I read an interesting article [1] on the topic of these annoying boxes recently. Very thought-provoking ;)

[1] http://www.moneylab.co/email/

nihonde3• 10 years ago

In Japan, I learned what a truly healthy breakfast is.

Most days I eat a bowl of brown rice with a raw egg stirred in and a dash of high-quality soy sauce and topped with natto. Some days I'll also grill salmon or smelt. On the side, I usually have tsukemono (pickled vegetables) and miso soup.

Protein, probiotics, pickles...once you get used to it, the idea of eating sweet desserts for breakfast (which is what most people eat) seems counterproductive.

(By the way, it's probably true that many people in Japan eat the same crap as Americans do for breakfast——there's no shortage of bread, donuts, etc.)

soared• 10 years ago

I was curious if raw eggs were actually healthy after reading your comment. I was never allowed to eat raw eggs growing up. A little google-fu says he risk of salmonella is overstated and extremely rare, but the USDA and others still suggest avoiding raw eggs. Not much definitive on cooking vs. raw though.

zhemao3• 10 years ago

Eggs won't get salmonella if they are refrigerated promptly after they are laid. Japan has higher food safety standards, so eggs produced in Japan are less likely to have salmonella than those produced in the US.

nihonde3• 10 years ago

It's pretty common to eat raw eggs here. I would hesitate to do it with the wan-looking eggs in American grocery stores, though.

Japanese people eat a lot of eggs in general: http://www.japantimes.co.jp/life/2014/09/16/food/raw-appeal-...

ulrikrasmussen2• 10 years ago

The Danish Food Administration has per 2013 officially declared raw eggs safe to eat for consumers. The food industry still has to use pasteurized eggs though.

Even though I knew the risk of Salmonella was already minuscule, I use raw eggs in my cooking a lot more now (e.g. dressings, mayo, etc.). It is just a lot more convenient than having to buy pasteurized yolks and egg whites.

I don't know if raw eggs are truly safer to eat here in Denmark, or if the food administrations from other countries are just being overly conservative.

a_imho• 10 years ago

I can't find the source, but egg protein digestibility is increased by heat treatment, boiling being the most effective preparation method afair.

zhemao3• 10 years ago

I think the issue is that most people don't have time in the mornings to cook and eat a full meal. I think in Japan, the regular workday and school day start later to accomodate a longer breakfast.

I personally hate western "breakfast foods". For breakfast I usually make noodles (not the instant kind) and eat it alongside a fried egg and maybe some leftover veggies. Or I'll just microwave some leftovers (including rice) from the day before.

nihonde3• 10 years ago

You might be right. I set the rice cooker on a timer the night before so that it's finished before I get up. Miso soup takes not much longer than the time to boil water, and I often leave it overnight and just re-heat it. Almost every kitchen in Japan has a fish grill/oven, so that only takes a few minutes to wrap the fish in foil and turn it on...ready in about 5-10 mins.

Back in the USA, I used to eat oatmeal with fresh fruit and honey every morning, and it took longer to prepare.

awinter-py• 10 years ago

For mice (and presumably for certain other mammals), 12-hour daily fast seems to have positive outcomes.

http://well.blogs.nytimes.com/2015/01/15/a-12-hour-window-fo...

The study suggests this is true even if you cheat on the weekend.

I'm super-dubious of evidence showing that breakfast improves school outcomes (except where it helps meet kids' calorie needs). You know what else boosts school outcomes? Sedatives, because school is hella boring. That doesn't mean sedating kids or adults is a good idea.

feritkan• 10 years ago

Breakfast is not a new thing, or it has anything to do with cereal or milk or donuts.. Just google image search Turkish Breakfast...

raz32dust• 10 years ago

Title is misleading. It should be titled "How cereal became a thing". But that is kinda obvious and no one would probably click it then.

musgrove• 10 years ago

I'm more interested in how breakfast food became mostly garbage for so many Americans. May as well eat a Snickers, chili dog and a Coke from the gas station when you get up.

zhemao3• 10 years ago

I'm pretty sure that's the primary question the article answers. Heavy marketing of highly sugary cereal.

iomind• 10 years ago

If you have ever chance to read any ancient Greek historian, you would notice breakfast was a big deal back then. Xenophon for example mentions it about every time he describes how the morning starts in an army camp. This is just another click-bait article, don't fall for it.

jcoffland2• 10 years ago

It's just amazing how much "common knowledge" about food has been shown to be completely wrong:

  * Breakfast is the most important meal [0]
  * Saturated fat is bad [1]
  * Carbs are evil [2]
  * You regain more weight after a fast diet [3]

Many will argue but studies have show each one of these to be wrong.

[0] https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2015/08/10/the-s...

[1] http://www.eufic.org/page/en/show/latest-science-news/fftid/...

[2] http://www.nature.com/nutd/journal/v6/n2/full/nutd20162a.htm...

[3] http://www.thelancet.com/journals/landia/article/PIIS2213-85...

visakanv• 10 years ago

I think if there's one big idea about nutrition, it should be that there are no one-size-fits-all answers. I skipped breakfast for most of my childhood, and I had no idea why I was so lethargic all the time. I was typically anxious from undone schoolwork, etc and had no appetite in the morning. I'd self-medicate with cigarettes.

I started forcing myself to eat breakfast about a year ago and my mind is so much clearer, seemingly as a function of relatively-stabilized blood sugar levels.

But that's just me. It could be totally different for someone else.

fasteo2• 10 years ago

That was also my case as an adult. Solved by eating much more at night, carbs included. I was just not consuming enough calories.

So, another myth - carbs are bad at night - that did not apply to me.

ak39• 10 years ago

This is true for parenting too. You cannot take cookie cut wisdom and apply (CROSS APPLY t-sql style) to all.

The wisdom has to be applied "Bayesian" style ... "Given subject with attributes x, y and z, apply optimisation function."

w0utert• 10 years ago

> But that's just me. It could be totally different for someone else

It is. I haven't eaten breakfast for 20 years, and I don't suffer from any kind of lethargy, tiredness or hunger. I even cycle to work for 30 minutes each day, on an empty stomach, and often don't eat until 1PM. For me, it's actually the other way around: if I eat anything before lunch time, especially sugary things, I often get nausea.

So I guess that confirms your point, there simply is no 'one-size-fits-all answer', everybody has different metabolism. Obviously some things are clearly bad for you, like overeating, insufficient dietary variation, lack of essential nutrients, etc. But these are simply solved with just common sense. For the rest, 'nutrition science' is completely worthless IMO, and more often than not driven by marketing or scientific echo-chambers.

dspillett• 10 years ago

I started forcing myself to eat breakfast

I tried that when I was having lethargy problems mid-morning, but my digestive system doesn't seem to switch on until a while after waking up and if I consume anything more solid than milk before it tells me it is ready I get unpleasant indigestion feelings.

I tend to get hungry and have my first food at ~1030 or a little before. The exception is the days I have a long run into work (a 7.5-to-10K slow run, instead of the usual 2ish Km walk) - I want food as soon as I've showered in that case.

Exercise before work has itself cured the lethargy problem it would seem and it doesn't need to be as strenuous as a 7+K run. Just the difference between the old routine of cycling in, to doing a few situps & dips before getting dressed and briskly walking in, seems enough to make a marked improvement even into the late afternoon.

blowski• 10 years ago

A balanced diet where you don't eat too much seems to be the other big idea.

Of course, both of these big ideas don't make good books or TV shows or special diet products.

Aelinsaar6• 10 years ago

So very true. We're all crazy variable as humans.

I'm 6'2" and broad, and thick. I've had a great friend from childhood who's 6'2" and skinny as a rail. We could not have more dissimilar ways of eating healthfully, but doesn't that make sense when you think about it? He basically eats little meals all day, and I concentrate my calories so that I don't stay constantly hungry and engaged in eating.

The only advice that's truly universal, is that you can't lose weight unless the equation is (Calories-In - Calories-Out) = Gain/Loss. How you get there is totally individual though.

akgerber• 10 years ago

My bike ride into work usually feels significantly more sluggish if I skip breakfast and/or coffee.

lucb1e• 10 years ago

On mobile so I won't look up sources now, but from memory you can add "diamonds are rare" (no, they're monopolized) to the list.

mrfusion3• 10 years ago

I thought the jury was still out on saturated fat? Can I start eating butter with abandon?? I'm excited.

Xcelerate• 10 years ago

That's why I don't put stock in any of it and just eat what I like.

abandonliberty• 10 years ago

In some cases you are correct while in some you're making the same types of errors seen in science reporting.

* [0] Completely agree. This falls into folklore: was never really scientifically investigated, and all recent findings don't support it.

* [2] This is a single study on a very particular mechanism. The null hypothesis wasn't "Carbs aren't evil". The experimental setup was designed to determine if there was a benefit in LCHFD diets for NZO prediabetic obese mice eating ad-libitum compared to traditional rodent feed (which by no means mirrors the type of high carb diet humans eat). They failed to demonstrate that. Some carbs are probably evil. Like sugar.

* [3] This is how science works: You make an observation: "You regain more weight after a fast diet." Yet a controlled laboratory environment doesn't show the same result. You're missing something. Reality is almost always more complex and subtle than we'd like it to be. The medical field right now is starting to focus on lifestyle changes and lifelong treatment. The shred of truth here is that slow weight loss is probably associated with creating long term habits. https://www.medweight.ca/.

chestervonwinch• 10 years ago

I was surprised to see no mention of Edward Bernays:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6vFz_FgGvJI

OneTwoFree• 10 years ago

I don't drink coffee at all. I eat a vegetarian sandwich every morning when I go to work, it gives me a good start for the day, I feel sharp and focused all morning. Sometimes when the sandwich shop is closed I buy something like a chicken sandwich, and that makes me more sleepy and tired.

Lunch is usually a big pile of rice with some vegetables and meat. Wow, this makes it reeeally hard to stay awake at the afternoon, but there aren't many options for lunch near the workplace.

For dinner, my wife cooks something also usually rice with some meat and veggies. But about 1 hour before I plan to go to sleep I eat 1 or 2 bananas. I always had hard time sleeping, and I read that bananas are good for sleeping because it contains potassium. For me it works. Although this might be completely placebo, because bananas don't work for my wife.

How Breakfast Became a Thing

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