Tell HN: Wear a Helmet

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=8626433

by stevesearer • 12 years ago

272 183 12 years ago

news.ycombinator.com

I started commuting to work on my bicycle earlier this year and was not wearing a helmet for the first few weeks. A coworker gave me a hard time about it and I finally decided I should get one.

My chain broke on my short ride home today for lunch leaving me quickly unbalanced and on the ground in a hurry. My helmeted head definitely hit the ground and would likely have been badly injured had I not been wearing it.

I am very thankful that my coworker pressured me to wear what I thought was fairly unnecessary due to my short commute and safe riding habits.

If you ride a bicycle, please wear a helmet.

mooreds• 12 years ago

And replace your helmet every five years: http://www.smf.org/helmetfaq#aWhyReplace

nandhp• 12 years ago

OP might also want to consider if they need to replace their helmet after this.

Helmets are one-use items [...] If the helmet has been involved in an impact while in use, replace it.

angersock• 12 years ago

Also, never forget blinkers at night!

Headlights aren't a bad idea either.

openforce• 12 years ago

Yes! And a slightly strong blinker. I have had to let some riders know that their blinkers were too tiny/weak to be noticeable.

rconti• 12 years ago

There's some interesting research out there suggesting that head/neck injuries are actually more common among helmeted bicyclists than the non-helmeted. The factors include the extra weight of the helmet, the size of the helmet causing the helmeted head to strike the ground when an unhelmeted head would not have, and additional risks taken by helmeted riders (think: risk homeostasis). Unfortunately I can't find the link that was making the rounds a few months ago.

In my own personal anecdotes, I have had one major bicycle wreck where I somersaulted into a car, one bicycle wreck where my chain snapped and I flung myself over the bars onto the street, and a couple of low-speed (~10mph) motorcycle offs where I collided with the ground but my head did not touch. Though there was one motorcycle case where the side of my helmet dragged on the ground slightly from about 5mph; it's arguable whether my head would have hit.

That said, I have hit my head incredibly hard snowboarding, after catching an edge at very low speed ("last run of the day!" type thing), and always always always wear a helmet every single time I ride a bicycle or motorcycle or snowboard, just as I always wear a seatbelt in the car. It's just a habit, and a good one.

spott• 12 years ago

This kind of research is interesting (for sciences sake), but I think it is important to bring up the fact that no-one is saying wearing a helmet doesn't help in situations where life altering head injuries would otherwise occur. It is probably fair to say that in the severe head injury probability distribution, it removes a bunch of probability from the "severe/dead" part of the curve, and adds a bunch to the "minor/tweak" part of the curve, which I'm ok with.

adlawson• 12 years ago

Chris Boardman, an Olympic cyclist for GB, recently appeared on BBC News to talk about cycling safety while not wearing a helmet during his demonstrations. He gives his reasons in this short video https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=974497519231053&set=vb....

I certainly don't disagree with him, or with you, that there are plenty of other safety aspects to consider while cycling, but I'd always wear a helmet anyway.

bbrian• 12 years ago

That was great, and only 37 seconds long!

In Ireland there are lots of bike safety campaigns and messages but the two things that have contributed most to the uptake of cycling have been the Bike to Work scheme (tax free bikes) and the Dublin Bikes (city bike rental) scheme. Arguably, the increase in the number of cyclists has done more for cycling safety than all the efforts of the campaigns.

ethomson• 12 years ago

Bicycling magazine had an excellent article that delved into this: http://www.bicycling.com/sites/default/files/uploads/BI-June...

Their assertion was that this boiled down to: do you want open head trauma or closed head trauma?

I'm not so sure that it's quite that simplistic, but seeing the data on how the helmet industry is needlessly hamstrung by outdated standards from 30 year old standards bodies is pretty startling and depressing. This alone should make you reconsider your notions of how safe your helmet really makes you.

(Of course, I still wear mine.)

sharkweek• 12 years ago

Interesting trends regarding the "fearlessness" in the NFL suggest that all the advances in modern head protection cause the player to feel a greater sense of invincibility, thus resulting in bigger hits/injuries -

Exibit one, Kam Chancellor, The Touchdown Canceller: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mThE69llX34

While it will never happen, what if they considered removing helmets from the game? - These guys would be so much more cautious (e.g., Rugby) of how they hit. Tons of injuries still? Sure, but I'd be willing to guess a massive decrease in major head trauma.

Back to bikes, regardless of the data, I'm still protecting my own head whenever I'm commuting while not protected by a steel cage.

pacaro• 12 years ago

One fundamental difference between rugby and NFL is how many players are involved in frontal impact on each play or phase of play. In rugby football you are only allowed to tackle a player with the ball (except in rucks and mauls, which are by their nature more structured) whereas in american football there seem to me to be a whole lot of players running headfirst into each other on every play.

Having said all that, my experience with rugby players is that there is a certain bravado about injuries, that if you haven't cracked a few ribs, broken a clavicle, had a stud through your cheek, etc. then you aren't playing hard enough; and should therefore buy the next round

bweitzman• 12 years ago

Another thing to keep in mind: head and neck injuries might go up because accidents which would have resulted in death now result only in an injury.

exelius• 12 years ago

I've seen this repeated many times, and people usually have this mixed up. Helmets on bicycles DO save lives: the majority of bicycle accidents are low speed (<15 mph) and they often don't involve severe trauma. I knew a guy in college who fell off his bike while trying to navigate around pedestrians at very low speed (walking speed). He wasn't wearing a helmet, and ended up with a brain injury that robbed him of the 3 years of his life he spent re-learning how to walk and speak. He's fine today, but still has a gnarly scar on the side of his head.

The same is not true of motorcycle helmets. The forces involved in motorcycle accidents are a lot higher, so fewer accidents are survivable even with a helmet. Motorcycle helmets also make you feel fucking invincible, so I can definitely see why people would take more risks.

imanaccount2473• 12 years ago

But by the same measures you can claim bicycle helmets are important, they would be just as important for walkers as cyclists. Or people in cars.

beilabs• 12 years ago

I was presently surprised moving to Australia to find that it was compulsory to have a helmet while on a bicycle.

Many on my cycle run have been attaching go-pro mounts to their skull cover; I wonder how ineffective it renders the helmet if you landed straight on it.

dripton• 12 years ago

It's been alleged that having a Go-Pro camera on his ski helmet contributed to the severity of Michael Schumacher's injury.

Of course, this is very hard to prove.

zedpm• 12 years ago

The helmet really isn't the best place for a video camera anyway; I've ridden quite a bit with a GoPro and found that the chest mount gives the best view of the action.

OmarIsmail• 12 years ago

Glad to hear you're safe! And as a fellow bike commuter I echo the message to wear a helmet.

Your head is arguably the most important part of your body. I'd like for it to be socially acceptable to wear a helmet at all times.

grecy• 12 years ago

I was riding home last winter and a car blew a stop sign and t-boned me.

My helmet hit the ground hard, I was perfectly fine.

The ambulance guys were pretty sure I would not have been if not for the helmet.

Please, wear a helmet.

harvestmoon• 12 years ago

I was biking down a hill about 10 years ago. Hit a bump or curve or something - either way, I flew off the bike about 5 feet forward and hit the ground directly head first almost as if I were diving into a pool of paved road.

The helmet took all the impact and my head was perfectly fine (my knees then hit the ground and got scuffed up a bit). Had I not been wearing it...

So yes - please wear a helmet.

Tcepsa• 12 years ago

Upvoted for "diving into a pool of paved road". Glad you are still around to share that mental image!

kohanz2• 12 years ago

It always amazes me how many cyclists I see riding without helmets (and anecdotally they seem to be the ones who typically ride in a less safe/defensive manner as well).

My wife works in healthcare and has worked in settings looking after patients with acquired brain injuries and she always tells anyone (even if she barely knows you) to wear a helmet. She's met too many young people turned into living vegetables or something similar to idly stand by and watch people take that risk.

carlob3• 12 years ago

I'm not sure riding defensively is always the best thing to do. For example, say you are in a narrow road, and a car behind you has barely enough space to overtake you. A defensive rider would move as far to the right as possible to be overtaken, which is very dangerous, while the correct answer would be to ride straight in the middle of the road so that the car driver is not even tempted.

darkstar9992• 12 years ago

I disagree. The defensive move would be to take the whole lane and not give them room to pass.

mertd• 12 years ago

Defensive riding does not mean running away from cars.

Taking the lane when it is unsafe for others to pass is in fact one of the most important rules of defensive riding.

markvdb• 12 years ago

Defensive cycling 101: disambiguate. Your intentions as a cyclist should be crystal clear to all other traffic participants. Make it very clear the motorist will not be able to pass you.

Schweigi• 12 years ago

Especially inside roundabouts its recommended to drive in the middle in order to not give any cars an insensitive to overtake and taking the next exit while you as a cyclist want to take the second next one.

Despite driving in the middle it still happened to me when I was younger and I could luckily jump of the bike when the car hit me as he took the exit.

kohanz2• 12 years ago

You've got a good understanding of how to ride safely, but perhaps a poor definition of cycling "defensively". You're confusing "defensive" with qualities of meekness or lack of assertiveness.

jarek2• 12 years ago

It always amazes me how many cyclists I see riding without helmets (and anecdotally they seem to be the ones who typically ride in a less safe/defensive manner as well).

Interesting, the opposite is true in my case. In London (England) it's usually the Lycra-and-helmet set I see lane splitting and light-jumping.

gumby• 12 years ago

I was struck by a car while biking with my helmet (which I generally wore but wasn't super diligent about). Broke my arm, which I was quite bummed about. Got back on my bike and rode one-handed to the emergency room.

At the hospital they reconstructed my accident and wouldn't you know: I fell on my occiput; elbow shattered as a subsequent side effect. Since I had had the helmet on I hadn't even noticed; without the helmet, well, I wouldn't have noticed either. I went back and looked at the helmet and the foam was damaged at the back of the head (it had absorbed a bunch of K.E.) and the back of th helmet had grit embedded.

Needless to say I ALWAYS wear my helmet.

pbhjpbhj• 12 years ago

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Occipital_bone - lumpy bit at the back of your skull where the bones are fused and, when looking up, your head meets the fleshy part of your neck. The lump is called the exterior occipital protuberance (in the image on Wikipedia it is anyway).

Luc4• 12 years ago

If you ride a bicycle, please wear a helmet.

Or you know, don't, because you've got perfectly safe bicycle infrastructure and you're never going faster than 20 km/h anyway.

What works for you is not a universal law.

You know how this bicycle helmet issue always turns into a shouting match on the internet? I think it's to a large extent because people don't have the empathy to see themselves in the situation of a bicyclist on the other side of the world, in a different automotive culture, with different laws and history.

scott_s• 12 years ago

Falling off your bike at 20 km/h and hitting your head is still enough for a decent head injury.

Luc4• 12 years ago

Pfft, you don't need to be going that fast. My wife was pushed off her bike at perhaps 5 km/h and fractured her shoulder. Took nearly a year of healing and revalidation.

gburt• 12 years ago

I take it you missed his part about breaking his chain.

That said: http://www.vehicularcyclist.com/hfaq.html and a variety of research suggesting that helmet laws reduce ridership which causes far more cost (in heart disease and inactivity ailments) than the lack of helmets.

nathanb• 12 years ago

Can you explain what you mean by "perfectly safe bicycle infrastructure" and how this removes the need for a helmet?

jepper• 12 years ago

In the Netherlands we have dedicated cycling lanes along larger roads and car drivers that are comfortable with cyclists. Almost everbody cycles, nobody wears helmets. And we haven't got a raised head injury mortality or paralysis rate because of bike injuries. I've never had an injury and probably traveled more kilometers by bike than any other means of transportation.

I do wear a helmet while road biking but that's a whole different topic.

dalke7• 12 years ago

"Perfectly safe" is of course impossible. It should be read as "as safe as walking" or, more realistically, "as safe as running." (Wearing a helmet while running, or while driving, may also be safer than not.)

For a safe infrastructure, see how Amsterdam and Copenhagen have bike lines which are independent of traffic and of pedestrians, including it own bridges and overpasses. See also how routes are arranged so that cycle and pedestrian routes are more direct than car routes, how bikes have right-of-way over cars, and how limited speed limits and narrow roads keep cars from going fast in roads which are shared with cycles.

Also, it wasn't only "perfectly safe bicycle infrastructure" but also "and you're never going faster than 20 km/h". That's a 3 minute km or 5 minute mile, which is slower than many people can sprint, and slower than the fastest marathon paces. It's hard to understand why cyclists, on their own paths, need a helmet when runners who might pass them do not.

JoeAltmaier12• 12 years ago

Its the old observers paradox. "I haven't had a bike accident, so bike helmets aren't necessary". Nothing works but resorting to the statistics. What statistics have you to offer?

antientropic• 12 years ago

Here in the Netherlands, nearly nobody wears a helmet. If the horror stories in this thread are to be believed, half the population of the country should be clinically brain dead at this point. They're not, so perhaps not wearing a helmet is not as dangerous as some people believe.

Regarding statistics: http://www.cyclehelmets.org/1012.html has some useful pointers. Conclusion: "Despite the considerable effort that has been put into research about cycle helmets, there is no real-world evidence that helmets have ever resulted in the net saving of even a single life. However, if helmets were actually effective, then many more pedestrian and motor vehicle occupant lives could be expected to be saved if these groups wore helmets."

maerF0x0• 12 years ago

Ive been hit three times, the third time the helmet mattered. If I had of done false presumptions of "I've been hit before and it doesnt matter" I might be dead or worse off now.

if you have a 0 dollar brain, wear 0 dollar head protection.

garyfirestorm• 12 years ago

if cycling is the primary transport,you might want to consider this. https://www.youtube.com/embed/0aX-WXBMI8I?start=29&end=33 http://www.hovding.com/

frandroid• 12 years ago

There is one study that shows that car drivers give less space to cyclists who look more "professional"/well-equipped than those who look like casual riders. Of course people who cite this research say that the solution is to not wear a helmet, as opposed to take measures to make drivers give you more space when you wear a helmet. In my case, I have an old large Coca-cola plastic crate on my rear rack, plastered with reflector stickers, and that seems to give me plenty of space. A female friend holds her U-lock in her left hand and that seems to do the trick as well.

biggerfisch• 12 years ago

A helmet has saved my father's life several times while commuting to/from work. We have at least one of the helmets saved, complete with a crack down through the entire side. It was a hard enough hit for him to be unconscious for a few minutes. The EMTs said that without the helmet, it would have been dicey odds of survival.

ddispaltro• 12 years ago

A bit OT: bicycle corridors are one thing in SF that is mostly good with a bit of second order bad.

Good – if you know the routes you generally try to ride with other cyclists, safety in numbers. Plus the wide green lanes help make it abundantly clear to cars that this is a bike lane.

Bad – the other streets turn into crazy biking gambles. Every once and while I see someone riding on Guerrero and want to yell at them to go one street over (Valencia) and reduce your collision chances. It emboldens bicyclists to not follow the law quite as well, or maybe since the sample size is high, I don't know.

deutronium• 12 years ago

Additionally if you ride a bike, grow your hair long.

Dr Ian Walker did some experiments with a bike fitted with an ultrasound distance meter and found cars kept a greater distance to people with long hair.

http://drianwalker.com/overtaking/overtakingprobrief.pdf

Alternatively, fit your bike with a flame thrower - https://www.eta.co.uk/2010/09/29/bond-bicycle-boasts-ejector...

chrismealy• 12 years ago

In the Netherlands, where 30% of trips are by bike (compared to 1% in the US), almost nobody where a helmet, and it's extremely safe. It's almost impossible to go over the handlebars on a Dutch bike. You're sitting upright, you're going slow, the roads are safe, and there are no hills to go zooming down. Dutch cycling is basically at jogging speeds. Nobody expects joggers to wear helmets.

However, when Dutch cyclists do go fast, they wear helmets. In Dutch there are even separate words for everyday cyclist (fietser) and speed cyclists (wielrenner):

http://bicycledutch.wordpress.com/2012/05/28/lycra-on-the-st...

I live in Seattle, where we have killer hills and shitty bike infrastructure. I always wear a helmet, and I've had three minor crashes that would have been major crashes without a helmet. When I finally move to the Netherlands, I'm not bringing my helmet with me.

Zigurd• 12 years ago

How to spot an American in China: Wearing a helmet, and going twice the speed of the locals.

kazinator7• 12 years ago

I've actually been to China and I can tell you that there is a lot of bicycle traffic on the wide, dedicated bike/moped/motorcycle pathways. The locals are fast. Also, the drivers drive as if those cyclists were invisible. For instance, they make abrupt right turns across the bike lane without caring whether or not they are flanked by bikes or not (including electric and gas powered two-wheelers). At any time, you have to be prepared for a car to swerve in front of you to make a right turn, not always signaling beforehand.

If anything, an American who is a n00b on the scene will probably stand out by going slower than the locals, out of sheer fear.

You'd be crazy to cycle around in a place like Shanghai without a helmet.

(Also, the helmets you buy in America are made in China so why wouldn't you get one if you're in China, haha.)

cleaver2• 12 years ago

You don't have to go over the bars or go fast to get hurt. Back during my cycling days a teammate was out training on a quiet country road. He crossed wheels when a kid he was passing swerved. He hit his head, went into a coma and died two weeks later. While this was a competitive cyclist, he was riding solo and training for endurance—not terribly fast, nor anywhere near race pace.

You could also be struck by a motorist. Granted, Dutch drivers are more aware of cyclists, but people still make mistakes.

revelation2• 12 years ago

You could also trip in a staircase and die. I'd wager the outcomes are about equally likely. Why stop with a helmet? You should always wear knee protectors and any other amount of protective gear.

Simply put, the helmet is a political device invoked to get rid of cyclists on public streets and mask the actual risk (cars, by many orders of magnitude, and not only to cyclists, but also pedestrians). As astute people have noticed, helmets are basically absent in countries that have sane city infrastructure transport design and dedicate just a fraction of the resources to making cycling possible for everyone.

But we can't expect people to ask for that infrastructure when they don't even know what it should look like. You note "Dutch drivers are more aware of cyclists", missing the most important feature of Dutch infra: there is physical separation that makes the mistakes of human car drivers (universally useless) mostly riskless.

kentbrew• 12 years ago

Scariest wreck I ever had: maybe two miles an hour on a bike path. Slipped in wet leaves, loud bang, bright flash, and the world was on its side. Later on I figured it out: even with the helmet on I'd hit hard enough to lose that little bit of time.

Helmet, always, every time.

richardlblair• 12 years ago

That's like saying "I don't wear a seatbelt because I drive the speed limit".

This is some of the worst logic I've seen on here in a while. I'll keep an eye open for your Tell HN post "I should have wore a helmet"

limsup• 12 years ago

I think there's something to say about it being safer to bike in general in Netherlands vs in the US. Often in the US you are riding next to busy traffic, while in NE the bikes are better protected. Along with other things too: like a car driving population that is careful about bicyclists.

So, it's not exactly like saying I don't wear a seatbelt because I drive the speed limit. Rather it's like saying I don't wear a seat belt because I live in a different country where accidents are less probable.

Someone2• 12 years ago

A major argument against making bicycle helmets compulsory is that it would make people stop cycling (helmets destroy your hair, and where would you store your helmet when parked?), and that would cause more deaths due to cardiac arrest and the like than helmets would prevent. Hard to test, but IMO not an unreasonable argument (I think there are scientific papers on this, too)

And of course, the infrastructure is way different in the Netherlands, as is the culture. The fraction of car drivers that has regularly ridden a bicycle through traffic probably is very close to 100%; the fraction that has done so recently or has a kid that has done so probably still is over fairly high.

Net effect is that, despite all those helmetless cyclists (many of which break traffic laws many times a trip), dutch traffic is one of the safest in the world.

EliRivers• 12 years ago

Do you wear a helmet when you go out for a walk? You choose to draw your own risk line somewhere else, but you still draw it.

sopooneo• 12 years ago

I don't wear a helmet in my car because I drive the speed limit. Race car drivers wear helmets in their cars because they go very fast.

It's a matter of degree. Many random accidents could probably have been prevented by helmets, but we do not advise pedestrians to wear them.

cbr2• 12 years ago

    It's almost impossible to go over the handlebars on a Dutch bike.

I've done it. I was cycling slowly along the road, and my front wheel went into a drain-grate that had been mistakenly oriented with bars parallel to the road. I landed on my head, had a sore neck for a while, replaced my helmet, and was glad I had been wearing one.

kazinator7• 12 years ago

In Vancouver here.

I had a bad one in October 2013. Going downhill on a wet pavement and into a corner. The bike just skidded out from under me. Luckily, the car behind me was far enough to be able to avoid me.

The back of my helmet hit the pavement quite hard. I heard quite a loud sound and was a little dazed as a result. That would have been very bad without a helmet. There isn't anything I could have done to protect my head in that situation, like choose to fall differently.

I had a huge black bruise covering much of my right hip, and a pain in the right side of my rib cage that lasted into the following spring.

emmelaich• 12 years ago

I lived in Amsterdam for a while and loved commuting on my bike.

But here's an anecdote for you.

I grew up in a large town in Australia where bicycling was very popular. I rode everywhere and had paper runs. I don't remember anyone having a serious accident. At 17 I went to University in Sydney and rode everywhere; again no helmet and no accidents.

In Amsterdam I had one big crash; my wheel went between the cracks on the footpath and I face-planted into the concrete and took a lot of bark off my face.

What does that tell you? Perhaps nothing :-)

skierscott• 12 years ago

Please, wear a helmet. The costs of not wearing a helmet can be severe and far outweigh the minor inconvenience of wearing a helmet.

I'm a severe traumatic brain injury survivor. I was wearing a helmet (skiing crash) but lived with the effects for two years. It was incredibly frustrating -- I was surrounded by loving friends and family that cared enough to give me some painful feedback.

I'm still skiing and researched helmets in depth before returning. There's some interesting technology called MIPS[1]. The protect against moving impacts, a large improvement. Current helmets are just dropped straight down and these helmets are tested while spinning/moving/etc. That's how crashes happen -- while you're moving, whether it be on skis or on a bike.

It's a little more expensive, but it's your brain. Please protect that.

[1] http://www.mipshelmet.com

hereonbusiness• 12 years ago

Helmets that use MIPS may not be much better in a crash than normal helmets.

http://www.bhsi.org/mips.htm

mindcrime• 12 years ago

I crashed while mountain biking a couple of years ago, and hit the ground headfirst with all of that energy driving through my head and then my right shoulder/arm. The impact was severe enough to split my helmet and knock me unconscious for a couple of minutes. I expect that without that helmet I likely would have been killed or very seriously injured.

So yeah, don't play around... just wear the damn helmet. That's my advice anyway.

kazinator7• 12 years ago

Please throw away your helmet and get a new one; they are only rated to be in one accident.

Also, get a better bicycle for commuting; chains should not break after a few weeks. This shows that the bicycle had been heavily used, or is an ancient rust bucket, and may be a "bicycle shaped object" to begin with.

I carry a Park chain linkpin press tool for opening and closing chain links. Though occasions for using that on the road are rare if the chain is well-maintained and replaced regularly, not long ago I had a fairly new chain derail off the front ring, and by some unfortunate combination of events get itself into a tight kink which jammed and caused a link to bend severely. Having the tool, I was able to splice out and discard the bent link, and be on my merry way. I also carry a short piece of chain that was left over from the original chain installation, because there is only so many links you can throw away before the chain gets too short.

When you get a new chain, the rear gear cluster should be changed at the same time, since they wear together. A new chain can slip on old sprockets even if the old chain didn't. The front rings have to be changed maybe once every three chain changes.

ChrisNorstrom2• 12 years ago

My $80 walmart bike lasted 3 months. My $200 bike from a bike shop lasted years (and is still going without rust) and was totally worth the purchase. I always advise people to avoid cheap K-mart, Walmart, and Target bikes in favor of ones from their local bike shop. Especially if they're presents for their kids and you want them to last throughout their teens. The gift of a functional bike keeps on giving when it turns into a memorable nostalgic functional bike that you've had for 12 years. It's worth it.

Luc4• 12 years ago

$80, $200? Did you make a typo in these? You're lucky to get a good bike for $200. A bike I can keep for 12 years would easily cost me 500 euro (~US$625 currently), for the most basic model, probably without gears at that price.

_RPM• 12 years ago

Your walmart bike experience resonates with mine. Last year I bought one of those, and it lasted about 2 months. The crank literally snapped apart from the part that connects the frame to the crank. I was very disappointed.

sireat• 12 years ago

Another point of anecdata: I paid $200 for a used Dutch bike and it has served me well over 3 years of snow,rain and locusts.(10miles biked daily anywhere from -25C to 35C).

I wear my helmet mostly because of safety, but also because it is a bit like having a towel when traveling, police think you are a serious biker and never stop you.

GotAnyMegadeth• 12 years ago

I swapped a bottle of home made elder flower wine for my bike. It's made by Peugeot and when I got it it had inner tubes made by Nokia. I have no idea how old it is, but it's still doing fine 8 years after I got it.

elif3• 12 years ago

I don't know who sold you a new cassette when you got your chain changed, but they are nothing but a salesman.

I've never heard of chains slipping teeth, most notably because it would need to slip all teeth in contact at once (8-20 of them).

If you are having your chain slip off, you need to adjust your deraileur.

devnill• 12 years ago

Yes and no. You will get slipping on heavily worn cassette (read: sawtooth shaped teeth) and a new chain or vice versa, but heavily worn these days might be 4-6000 miles of abusive riding. For the average commuter, this would be several years of use, as well as a fair deal of casual riding.

mtsmithhn• 12 years ago

When your chain stretches beyond a certain point and does not get replaced it will begin to wear down your gear teeth due to excess friction against the sides. Eventually your gears can become worn enough that they will cause skipping (aka chain slipping off the teeth).

pge• 12 years ago

This used to be common advice (replace the chain and cassette at the same time). Nowadays, the best pracrice is to replace the chain before it stretches too much and starts wearing down the cogs. If you do that consistently, a cassette should last a really long time. I ride about 2,000 miles a year commuting and have been using the same cassette for 7 years, changing chains about every other year.

kazinator7• 12 years ago

I don't know who sold you a new cassette when you got your chain changed, but they are nothing but a salesman.

My most recent experience with new-chain/old-cluster was that the chain skipped a tooth three times per pedal revolution! Replaced gears, problem solved.

To go buy the new gears, I first had to temporarily put back the old chain, to make the bike ridable. :)

Adjusting the derailleur can help; in particular the "B tension" adjustment to get the jockey wheel to track the gear cluster more closely for more wrap. However, if it's that bad, it won't help.

I have decent experience adjusting derailleurs. Even taking apart the non-adjustable ones and drilling holes in new places to change spring tensions.

8-20 of them

You're not going to get 8 teeth of contact on an 11 tooth cog, nor 20 teeth of contact on a 26 tooth ring.

ajtaylor• 12 years ago

I recently had to replace my front chainrings after about 7000 km because the chain was jumping when I applied lots of pressure. The rear cassette was also replaced because the old chain (5k km) had damaged the cogs. So gears do indeed wear out, but it takes a good amount of riding.

aaron6952• 12 years ago

Please throw away your helmet and get a new one; they are only rated to be in one accident.

Other than Reddit style white knighting why did you say this?

You are basically defaulting to the OP is to stupid to know helmets are one use only, which is common knowledge.

plaguuuuuu2• 12 years ago

Because the comment was totally off-topic /s

This is a post intended to tell people to wear helmets in the first place. I don't think the target audience is likely to be aware of that tidbit either.

masklinn• 12 years ago

My helmeted head definitely hit the ground and would likely have been badly injured had I not been wearing it.

Now buy a new helmet and go get your head checked (literally, a helmet will protect against a skull fracture but not a concussion or other brain injuries)

jessevdk2• 12 years ago

I'm Dutch, and used to biking everywhere since I've been little. It is true that people in the Netherlands don't usually wear helmets, and the infrastructure and general driving attitude (you do have to pay much more attention to bicyclists when learning to drive) promote this. However, since I've moved to Switzerland I've become accustomed to wearing a helmet. One year ago I was in a pretty serious accident where I broke two vertebrae (one compression fracture and one clean break) and... my helmet. I don't care what studies say, I'm pretty sure that in my case the helmet saved my life.

On a side note, the situation in which the accident happened could have happened likewise in the Netherlands, it was on the flat and I was on a driver lane, except maybe that it was driver negligance that could have been avoided if drivers where more accustomed to bicyclists.

jessevdk2• 12 years ago

I meant to say bicycle lane, not driver lane.

fsckin• 12 years ago

I experienced a highside [1] dirt bike crash a few years ago. I hit the ground with incredible force, which fractured my arm.

The following day, one side of my body was covered in contusions, and I had a severe phone-shaped hematoma on my thigh.

I have every reason to believe that wearing a helmet prevented a serious brain injury. Also, Otterbox makes a pretty good product.

[1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Highsider

stronglikedan3• 12 years ago

Agreed. My front tire slipped to the left on wet slanted concrete. My helmet hit the ground so hard that my glasses flew off my face and were flattened upon impact. I just ended up with a little scuff and a headache. (and a broken shoulder and knuckle)

There was nothing I could do to prevent the impact, as I've trained myself to pull my money makers under me in a fall and let my body take the hit (the broken finger got wrapped up in the brake lever on the way down). There was something preventative that I could do in case of an impact, and boy am I glad I did: wear a helmet.

mod3• 12 years ago

Your brain is your moneymaker--put out your hands!

stronglikedan3• 12 years ago

That's what the helmet is for! ;-)

I used to reach out my hands when falling, but now I tuck them in and lead with my shoulder. that was my first major fall, but it's something that I would repeat to myself in my head while riding. In the aforementioned case, I was falling sideways and forwards. I suppose if I were leading with my head I would try to break the fall with my hands. I don't know; it all comes down to muscle memory, subliminal reaction, and how bad I'm freaking out at the time.

TimSchumann• 12 years ago

Glad to hear you're safe Stephen, thanks for the reminder.

amjaeger• 12 years ago

Just to echo the OP: Was biking with my brother and a friend in San Fran. The friend crashed when his tire got stuck in the trolley track. Then my brother crashed same way while looking back to see what happened. Always wear a helmet; Especially in San Fran

JoshTriplett• 12 years ago

In my case, when I was much younger, I skidded on some gravel and went head-first over the handlebars. I had a finger-thick dent in my helmet. I'm glad that dent was not in my skull.

stevebmark• 12 years ago

Glad you have a friend like that. Please continue the social pressure and actively encourage your less self-preseverational friends with the same message. I yelled at my non-helmet wearing friend (otherwise very bright) and eventually he started wearing it. Social pressure can bring good change.

MrQuincle• 12 years ago

You can do it, but you shouldn't advocate it. Arguments against widespread use:

- making people wear helmets will make less people bike, less people biking on the road leads to more accidents with bikes, and more deaths [1]

- a helmet may make people in general more reckless [1]

- cars will pass closer to people when they are wearing a helmet than when they are unprotected [1]

- if people need helmets, cycling is apparent a dangerous activity, attracting risk-seekers, skewing the statistics [1]

- compulsory helmet use in Australia seems to support some of these (perhaps) counter-intuitive arguments [1]

- helmet itself is dubious [2]

Morale: sure, wear a helmet, but don't evangelize its use. It's a tragedy of the commons if you will succeed.

[1] http://hanlonblog.dailymail.co.uk/2011/07/should-my-son-wear... [2] http://www.tbd.com/blogs/tbd-on-foot/2011/08/idea-of-the-day...

analog312• 12 years ago

Has the experiment in [1], where cars pass closer, ever been replicated? Admittedly, I'm skeptical. Is it correlated to the rider being more reckless, and riding closer to traffic?

zik2• 12 years ago

There have been no attempts at replicating the experiment yet, however the study is generally regarded as valid by the scientific community [1]. One study examined the same source data a different way and came up with different conclusions [2].

[1] http://skeptics.stackexchange.com/questions/3812/do-cars-pas...

[2] http://www.plosone.org/article/info%3Adoi%2F10.1371%2Fjourna...

charlieflowers2• 12 years ago

I despise this train of thought. I've heard it before. In essence, it translates to this: "We know it is safer to wear a helmet, but we need to lie to other people about it, so that more people will bike."

You only need 1 highly publicized brain injury to someone who followed this dishonest advice to undo all the gains in biking adoption you (think you) created.

math0ne• 12 years ago

People get brain injury's from car accidents all the time, why are we not advocating for people being mandated to wear them while in an automobile as well as on bicycles. As someone posted above:

"A UK study on the effects of cycle helmets found that if pedestrians and motorists wore helmets it would save 12 times more lives than if cyclists wore them."

cooper122• 12 years ago

I'm sorry but I find these arguments to be a load of bull. Why are we using behavior as an argument against wearing helmets?

making people wear helmets will make less people bike

Why not increase bike advocacy instead? Participation does not eclipse safety.

a helmet may make people in general more reckless

Again, behavior.

cars will pass closer to people when they are wearing a helmet than when they are unprotected

Ditto. That's why I'm glad many states have the 3 feet law. We can improve this with advocacy and legislation.

if people need helmets, cycling is apparent a dangerous activity, attracting risk-seekers, skewing the statistics

Attracting risk takers? Seriously? Almost everything rideable on wheels has people wearing helmets. They're just as likely to be attracted to skateboarding or rollerblading by that logic.

I'll give you the last two points however, as those can be backed up with numbers, but just be aware that statistics can lie, mislead, and be misinterpreted, especially with non-controlled and non-optimal study designs.

mod3• 12 years ago

If you're moving quickly and could impact the ground, is maybe a better phrasing. Check out this skateboard wreck I saw posted on reddit a little while back.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b9yL5usLFgY

A person in the thread (so value accordingly) said they worked in an ER and their estimation of the result of the impact, were there no helmet involved, was "likely death."

Also, as kazinator said, helmets are only good for one crash (or even drop from very high off the ground). Get a new one!

fendrak• 12 years ago

The thing that made me start wearing a helmet was the realization that, even if I'm the safest possible bicyclist there's ever been, there's no way to stop the environment from acting against you!

I managed to go over my handlebars while riding down a quiet side street (with no hands, like a badass :/ ), when a gust of wind blew me sideways and caused me to overcorrect and crash.

The Lord protected me on that one and gave me a chance to be a bit more proactive :)

elif3• 12 years ago

Some practical advice: Even if you don't ride a fixie, you should get comfortable doing skid stops. Just because the rear wheel locks up doesn't mean you have to lose balance.

maxmcd• 12 years ago

For all the usual discussion on HN about sample size, confirmation bias, FUD, survivorship bias, etc... I'm surprised to see so many personal experiences gaining upvotes. There are certainly quite a few linked studies and supported arguments, but they are the minority.

Isn't anyone's personal account of risk and danger pretty much irrelevant?

JoeAltmaier12• 12 years ago

Not irrelevant against claims of zero risk or other absolutes. We can conclude helmets save Some lives; the ones volunteering their stories here.

As a statistical measure, no they are not much use I'm afraid. But hospital admissions etc can show the value of helmets.

cyclewisdomage• 12 years ago

1 Bicycle cyclist riders save your brain!

2 * allegedly stupidity and dumbing down of the USA 3 increases and the 'i wear a helment' is an example.

4 * At age 58.34 years, I still ride a bicycle. I have 5 survied various adventures, including learning to 6 ride as a child in New York City, NYC, USA.

7 *the WISDOM OF AGES to SAVE YOUR BRAIN

8 1.) fastest way to lose your career, and live in 9 the 'nursing home prison' for a life sentence is 10 'bicycle cycling cyclist.'

11 2.) Do I have the best equipment like helmet?

12 3.) Do I assume that the 'impaired driver' or 13 old driver with OLD EYES does not see me? 14 Do I assume that I am running Microsoft Windows 15 XP and I have alreaady been 'cracked'??

16 4.) Do I practice FALLING OFF MY BICYCLE in a 17 controlled procedure? Do I know how to tumble 18 and roll?

19 5.) Like driving a car, where is the escape route? 20 Like soft grass and NOT lighting poles?

21 6.) Do I practice tumbling on 'hard ground'/ 22 DO THIS PRACTICE to strengthen your neck muscles! 23 Push on your head with your hands, while rolling 24 and rotating your head. 23 Push on your head with your hands, while rolling 24 and rotating your head.

25 7.) Why does this work? The reason GRANDMA dies 26 SLOWLY is hip fracture from falling down. 27 That's the reason why TAI CHI WITH WEIGHTS works. 28 It 'strengthens the BALANCE FUNCTIONS.'

29 8.) WEAR ALL PROTECTIVE GEAR. Ater a few falls, 30 and YES I AM STILL ABLE TO WALK AND HAVE ALL 31 MY FINGERS, wear the 'dollar store cotton gloves' 32 and the knee covers and yes SAFETY GLASSES.

33 9.) Most sunglasses shatter. Blind for the rest 34 of your life and then you go to the 'nursing home.' 35 Even MURDER in the USA has an average sentence of 36 less than seven years.

37 10.) 1.) fastest way to lose your career case: 38 THE CENTRAL PARK JOGGER with TBI traumatic brain 39 injury. When you LOSE YOUR short term memory, 40 your career, especially if you are a programmer 41 or white collar work IS FINISHED due to TBI.

42 11.) A truck tractor trailor jack-knifes and 43 skids. The car crash and 'multi-car pilup' 44 cuts off your legs. What a pity! 45 Seeing in the old age homes in Florida, FL, 46 USA, this is not a problem.

47 12.) Think of it this way. Would you rather have 48 dementia - Alzheimers or 'wheelchair no legs 49 disease.' For me the choice is 'wheelchair.' 50 http://theinvisiblegorilla.com/blog/2010/06/22/ 51 unexpected-bicycles-and-inattentional-blindness/ 52 "unexpected-bicycles-and-inattentional-blindness"

53 14.) YOU ARE INVISIBLE for this is the USA - 54 United States of Attention Deficit and 55 USA - United States of Amnesia. 56 Europe and even Asia - cyclists are treated 57 with respect. In the USA, expect loose dogs, 58 even wasp nests operating out of abandoned 59 houses, sand and slipperty stuff on the roads 60 and drivers who don't care and can't see well.

61 15.) the most dangerous times are are dawn 62 and dusk. Simply test your OLD FRIENDS with 63 OLD EYES who have a driver's license.

64 16.) How do we know this is true? The 65 rate of motorcycle accidents in Florida 66 and Arizona is very high. The old driver 67 or teenager texting says in the court: 68 " HE CAME OUT OF NOWHERE; NEVER SAW HIM."

PPPS. There is little penalty in the USA for 'manlaughter.' or Traumatic Brain Injury. Let's take an alleged legal case in FL or AZ, USA, shall we??

the worst penalty for BAD DRIVERS that might happen is two (2) years in jail. Florida, FL, USA protects the house. Civil courts cannot usually get the 'pension/annuity.' The worse that can happen to the GARBAGE TRUCK DRIVER is he gets fired and usually the company will try to protect him. LIKE THE BIG BANKSTERS, company fines are a 'small inconvience.'

PPS. Some of the garbage truck drivers may be hearing impaired, SO THEY DO NOT HEAR YOUR WARNING BICYCLE HORN.

Have you ever seen 'rear view mirros' on GARBAGE TRUCKS and other commercial vehicles THAT HAVE NO BLKND SPOTS??

plenty BLIND SPOTS.

peatmoss• 12 years ago

I feel like I just took a trip to the time cube.

bbulkow• 12 years ago

Honestly, I think you're .... oh, I don't want to be harsh .... being a bit wishful by saying that you would have been badly injured had you not been wearing your helmet. At least, there's no evidence in your post that shows it. Probably, you have no idea.

Without a helmet, your effective head is "smaller", I know that in an accident of mine - where everyone said "thank god for your helmet" am I certain that the part of the helmet hanging out the back hit the ground, and without the helmet, my head probably wouldn't have touched.

As a long-term bicycist and a long-term motorcyclist (serious crashes in each), I am increasingly skeptical about the technology in current bicycle helmets, especially compared to the technology in my current motorcycle helmets. Bicycle helmets are simply not tested to the same standards. They use very hard shells. They extend the "impact radius" --- basically, your head becomes bigger --- with only some decrease in crash absorbancy.

Reading the literature, it seems that the current bicycle designs are based on voodoo more than good science. The designs look like what bicycle racers used 30 years ago (little leather padded strips).

Compare this to the motorcycle helmet industry. There are plenty of crashes to analyze, mostly of motorcycle racers. There are numerous standards (like SNELL) which measure levels of transient G force within the brain on a simulated head.

We deserve better bicycle helmets, and people are willing to pay for good science and proof of protection. I pay a LOT of money for my motorcycle helmet, and glad to do so. I would pay 4x the price of a current bicycle helmet to buy one with solid, verified science and an international standard behind it.

In my suspicion, the lack of good bicycle helmet science is why the upper level numbers are bad: helmets don't decrease injuries or deaths, except that they cause people not to ride.

Really, we deserve better helmets.

revelation2• 12 years ago

I think we deserve cars not crashing into us. It's only in the US that people suggest (implicitly or explicitly) somebody is at fault for his death because he didn't wear a <400g soft shell around his head after a 4 ton truck ran into them from behind (which is the majority in cases where people died).

mwarkentin• 12 years ago

Canada too. :(

kaybe• 12 years ago

I can also recommend martial arts fall training, which saved my head in a similar situation.

I got my handlebars hooked on a rail going downhill and flew over the handlebars; my training allowed me to take the whole impact with my hip and butt. Light graze on the forehead, I'm lucky my reflexes told me to tuck in the head. (However, I couldn't walk that day. Cycling was fine.)

I'm wearing a helmet now, but I'm not sure the situation would have ended as well if I had been wearing it then, because of the bigger head radius.

edit: spelling

elwell• 12 years ago

For me, years of skateboarding have trained my subconscious how to fall/roll. I got 'doored' once on my bicycle, and I think that training paid off. I was really lucky my face didn't smash into the door though.

jarek2• 12 years ago

It's really frustrating to see cyclists who can't fall. I guess it comes down to lots of practice falls during childhood and infrastructure that supports safe cycling for children but...

MalcolmDiggs• 12 years ago

When I was 18 I crashed riding home from the gym at night. I was jumping off of a curb and my shitty front-wheel collapsed under the weight, bringing the bike to a sudden halt and sending me over the handlebars. Wasn't wearing a helmet. Landed face first and slid into San Pablo avenue. Concussion and Ripped most of the skin on the right side of my face off. I was pretty grotesque for awhile. Half my face was just an open wound.

If I had been wearing a helmet the cushion around my head would have lifted most of my face off the ground. Probably would have ended up with nothing but a chin scrape.

haldean• 12 years ago

Weird coincidence; last night I was car-doored on my bike ride home from work. I had my lights on and flashing, I was paying attention, and a guy opened his car door about 20 feet in front of me, way too close for me to respond. Even if you're careful, the people around you aren't always going to be. My helmet saved me a pretty serious head injury last night.

lexap• 12 years ago

Good news, and yes please wear helmets. A similar incident happened to a friend of mine. Literally the day before his boss insisted he wear a helmet "to protect his investment." Invasive managers aside, if it were possible for companies to incentive employees to wear helmets, I would support it.

tunnuz• 12 years ago

I second that. I started commuting myself four months ago when I got my current job in a new city. After just two weeks I fell down from an elevated cycling path, and hit my head (w/ helmet) on the tarmac. I had to replace my helmet, but I walked away with just a small scratch on a hand.

Also, check regularly the tightness of your wheel spokes, and replace a wobbly wheel if you can.

joshmn• 12 years ago

Some comments here suggest buying new. I didn't, and I'm perfectly fine with it. Used bike shops are your friends, people. Find a reputable one and you'll always go back.

In Minneapolis? Yeah, it's not in season right now, but bookmark http://oneononebike.com - not affiliated, but I've recommended plenty of people over to Gene and they've always thanked me.

btbuildem• 12 years ago

Be on the lookout for symptoms of concussion - they can take weeks to manifest. Take care especially if you're working long hours, it can make it worse.

jsilence• 12 years ago

Please "Stop forcing people to wear bike helmets"

http://www.vox.com/2014/5/16/5720762/stop-forcing-people-to-...

"While they do protect your head during accidents, there's some evidence that helmets make it more likely you'll get in an accident in the first place."

sidcool• 12 years ago

Absolutely. Can't stress this enough. This image is worth a thousand words:

http://i.imgur.com/cpgbU6o.jpg

ariejan• 12 years ago

As a Dutchman: lol, helmets.

Tell HN: Wear a Helmet

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