IRecognition: I am no longer Apple's Target Market

http://mergy.org/2012/12/irecognition-i-am-no-longer-apples-target-market/

by mergy • 14 years ago

249 233 14 years ago

mergy.org

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nextstep• 14 years ago

Apple still makes the Mac Pro if you're bent on physically upgrading your computer yourself.

wtn• 14 years ago

Or, get an i7 Mac mini and put an SSD in it.

bitcartel4• 14 years ago

Does it have a standard SATA connector, or does it have the Apple-only-modified SATA connector as found in the rMBP?

btgeekboy• 14 years ago

I went that route. The current Mini is by far the most complicated, scary computer I've worked in, and the SSD is the absolute first thing into the chassis.

It's doable, but it's far more complicated than the current (non-retina) MacBook Pro or any desktop I've ever worked in.

bitcartel4• 14 years ago

The current Mac Pro is long in the tooth and to all intents and purposes is dead, despite the so-called 'update' this summer. The Mac Pro forums are a pretty sad place, folk still clutching at straws, hoping something comes out next summer.

"Lloyd Chambers (MacPerformance Guide) thinks it may be August 2013 before Apple releases a new Mac Pro because of remarks Steve made two or three years ago, brought to his attention by a reader of his site, that Apple would not release a Mac Pro until USB 3 was natively supported. The Ivy Bridge Xeon is supposed to support USB 3 natively." (http://forums.appleinsider.com/t/152825/future-of-mac-pro)

TwiztidK• 14 years ago

As far as the non-upgradability of the rMBP, I don't think it's as much of a dealbreaker as some people, but Apple really could've done better. Develop a new type of low profile memory module and SSD, I'm sure some people would complain but it would be replaceable/upgradable.

bitcartel4• 14 years ago

Apple butchered the standard SATA connector so you can't use third party SSDs from OCZ, Mushkin, Transcend, AData, Kingston etc.

Only one vendor, OWC (MacSales), ships a compatible SSD, but of course you can't use it in non-Apple laptops which have a standard SATA connector.

Picture in article here: http://www.mactrast.com/2012/11/apple-ssds-and-the-fusion-dr...

raverbashing• 14 years ago

Manufacturers will come up with adaptors or compatible drives, shouldn't take long

felipemnoa• 14 years ago

>>I don't think it's as much of a dealbreaker as some people

It is the one big thing that makes me hesitate about buying an rMBP. SSD's are prone to failure according to many articles I've read and they also have a limited life span even if it doesn't have any defects. Once the thing gives up there is no way to easily swap it out and just insert a new one.

Also, sometimes I need to swap out hard drives (or SSD drives in this case). With the rMBP that is not possible. The rMBP is a nice computer but I really hope they see the error in their ways and add a replaceable standard SATA SSD.

rtrunck• 14 years ago

You can replace the SSD on the rMBP. There aren't a lot of options, but it is possible.

http://eshop.macsales.com/shop/SSD/OWC/Aura_Pro_Retina_2012

bbotond• 14 years ago

The title should say iRecognition. IRecognition looks like a C# interface.

zephjc• 14 years ago

It is on the site - for better or worse, HN auto-capitalizes submission titles

hcarvalhoalves• 14 years ago

More Apple drama on the front page?

derleth2• 14 years ago

A serious Mac-head going Ubuntu. I am also surprised, and I've been running Linux since before Ubuntu even existed, back in the before-time when Red Hat was the default distro.

But I refuse to be a partisan anymore. I remember when Apple was ... well, remember Mac OS 8? Remember the time before the iMac? Those computers made me wonder how newspapers ever got published. So I'm happy the Mac people have (mostly) usable (by their standards) hardware and software now, as long as I'm not forced to use it.

mdonahoe• 14 years ago

I haven't used Ubuntu in two years. Is it true that there are now ads in it?

Edit: I am referring to this http://yro.slashdot.org/story/12/09/22/1319216/ubuntu-will-n...

I haven't seen them first hand, but I was hoping someone might give their opinion here.

jarek3• 14 years ago

I clean-installed Ubuntu 12.10 last weekend. Out of the box it has an Amazon icon in the side 'dock', I removed it and don't remember what it does. Searching with the 'dash' search box does bring up results from Amazon. The alt-f2 run box, while looking the same as the search box except for saying "run a command" instead of "search", does not perform the Amazon searches. Personally I wouldn't really consider it obtrusive, especially since I've been living with alt-f2 and dock autohiding. I had to go out of my way to find out how to bring up the ads.

Aside from that, I'm pretty disappointed with the desktop environment. It's pretty but managing windows is a pain (can't easily alt-tab into a specific terminal window, for instance; it also hijacks Alt key to enable menu item search). I'm looking to replace it soon, but then again I'm probably not the user Ubuntu is primarily targeting these days.

cageface2• 14 years ago

iCloud is a joke. Like eWorld. Like .Mac. Like MobileMe. You can’t do this stuff.

This, I predict, is going to turn out to be Apple's achilles heel. They make great hardware and their software is good enough but they just don't get services.

Google does services better than anybody and they're quickly closing the other gaps.

amadeus• 14 years ago

I don't know if you can justify statement like that from the proposed evidence.

The App Store and iTunes Store are pretty damned successful services, whether you like them or not.

iCloud is not a joke, it does it's job well for the 99%. I turn on my new phone, enter my apple id, and I have all my settings, apps, etc synced and ready to go.

ripperdoc2• 14 years ago

That is true, but they all represent somehow the older version of connected software, as a pure extension of the device rather than a service on it's own. iCloud works great for a device as an invisible backup, but you can't use it to share files, co-operate, publish, share data between applications, etc. And I'd say the popular web services of today are so because they integrate across services and socialize the usage. Apple are still stuck 5-10 years behind.

microtonal7• 14 years ago

iCloud is not a joke, it does it's job well for the 99%. I turn on my new phone, enter my apple id, and I have all my settings, apps, etc synced and ready to go.

You must not have used iTunes Match on a daily basis. Very often some songs do not play at all, no matter how often you retry. Every week or so I cannot connect to the 'iTunes Cloud' at all, reducing my music library to what I have downloaded. Match and iTunes in the cloud are terribly broken.

aneth4• 14 years ago

What is so wrong with iCloud? It does exactly what I want it to do - back up my phone and sync my data between devices.

Maybe people try to use it for more than this?

DigitalJack• 14 years ago

I can tell you what is wrong with iCloud. It's supposed to be a sort of magical data sharing, but apparently it's only partially magical when it comes to OSX.

Go ahead, make a keynote deck, or numbers spreadsheet. Save it to "the cloud," now go look at your ipad or iphone. Where the hell is it? So much for magic.

Sharing is a royal pain in the ass with iOS. The gyrations I have to go through to move data from an ios app to the desktop is ridiculous and often impossible.

I'm hopeful they will get iCloud up to spec eventually, but for now it just sucks.

jtokoph• 14 years ago

As long as OS X still includes Terminal.app and lets me install other apps without using the App Store, I'm still hooked.

drivebyacct24• 14 years ago

I've always said this too, but looking at things like Facebook, Twitter, iOS, the last thing I want is to keep sacrificing to walled gardens where I have to play by someone elses' rules.

GateKeeper, to Mac developers, is playing by Apple's rules. I don't think it's a conspiracy to say that it will tilt the favor towards those who utilize the very closed (in multiple senses of the word) App Store over regular applications.

pi18n2• 14 years ago

Can devs sign apps with a self-signed root? If that's not possible, it's a closed garden already. And even if it is we can't be certain that they won't change it to App Store only in the future.

georgeorwell3• 14 years ago

I used Terminal.app a lot but I find iTerm2 is better.

arn• 14 years ago

What's weird is that this has been a running argument for almost the entire existence of Apple. Here's the thing though -- Apple hasn't changed. They are simply closer to their goals then ever.

I'm not saying it's right. But computer as an appliance? That's the dream! In the 80s we would argue on Usenet that the WIMP interface was too simplistic, and that real computer users stuck to the command line only. Now, in 2012, we argue on Blogs that the iPad is too simple, and real computer users need a mouse, keyboard, and windowed interface.

I'll leave this anecdote from 1981. over 30 years ago. To show how Apple is still Apple:

http://www.folklore.org/StoryView.py?project=Macintosh&s...

"Apple's other co-founder, Steve Jobs, didn't agree with Jef about many things, but they both felt the same way about hardware expandability: it was a bug instead of a feature. Steve was reportedly against having slots in the Apple II back in the days of yore, and felt even stronger about slots for the Mac. He decreed that the Macintosh would remain perpetually bereft of slots, enclosed in a tightly sealed case, with only the limited expandability of the two serial ports. "

ekianjo2• 14 years ago

I think it is not so much "computer as an appliance" which is the issue but the fact that you can do less and less with your computing devices, or that they become, in the end, more convoluted to use because of the design choices made. Like, turning a desktop computer operating OS to a tablet-like OS is just plain stupid and is a loss of efficiency.

Otherwise I agree with you, Apple has not changed a bit. Some people take longer to realize it, apparently.

tjogin3• 14 years ago

You can't do less with an iPad than with an Apple II, you can do a great deal more. And you can also do a great deal more with an iPad if your previous experience with computers was mostly confusing.

It depends on how you define "you". Broadly, the term "you" means "people". It doesn't mean "every person under the sun, especially programmers".

If we correct for misinterpretations, I would say people in general can do more with simpler computing platforms that are more appliance-like than with their mostly confusing computer that more often acts in confusing manners, and that more often seems to be ridden with viruses and malware (whether it is or not), and also sports a number of features and buttons which if clicked the wrong way, can cause the computer to be broken (whether true or not).

When people talk about what "you" can do, they are not talking about you, specifically.

rimantas3• 14 years ago

  > you can do less and less with your computing devices, or that they become, in
  > the end, more convoluted to use because of the design choices made.

Can you be specific about "less and less"? You can no take a movie, edit it, compose music for it and publish it online with your phone only.

  > Like, turning a desktop computer operating OS to a tablet-like OS is just
  > plain stupid and is a loss of efficiency.

  Are you talking about Windows 8 or iOS, or Linux? The problem with Windows 8 was not turning desktop OS into tablet OS, it's stopping in between.

pretoriusB• 14 years ago

>but the fact that you can do less and less with your computing devices

Actually you can do a hell of a lot more today.

Could you do HD video, real time 3D graphics, music, use thousands of modern APIs and languages with performance of several Gazillion flops in multiple cores, connect to everywhere on the planet, etc, with an Apple II, or a Mid-nineties IIci?

Besides the 1000x more powerful graphics and soundcard, you also have 100x more powerful programs, pervasive networking, tons of peripherals, from cheap printers to linux based robots and a FULL BLOWN UNIX underneath.

pjmlp6• 14 years ago

The issue is that many Apple fanboys never experienced the original Apple, the one with proprietary connectors and Mac OS specific APIs for video, 2D, 3D, networking ....

When Apple tried to cater to the open source community using the UNIX underpinnings of Mac OS X, young generations thought Apple was always more open than Microsoft, when actually they were the opposite.

Now that they are back on top with more profits than ever, they are as they always were.

Tyrannosaurs4• 14 years ago

How is this an issue with Apple fanboys? They're not the one's complaining about Apple.

Surely it's an issue with the people who tend to be Open Source advocates, complaining that Apple are no longer open?

Not that it's really an issue at all, it's just different strokes for different folks. With computers doing as much as they do now it's seems highly unlikely that a single company will ever fulfil all our computing needs. Certainly having seen the Wintel domination of the 90s it really doesn't seem that desirable so really what's the problem?

coob3• 14 years ago

> Mac OS specific APIs for video, 2D, 3D, networking ....

Which other platforms had/have non platform specific APIs for 2D and video?

w0utert5• 14 years ago

>> The issue is that many Apple fanboys ...

This is where I stopped reading...

It seems to be all the rage to write up anecdotal frustrations full of hyperbole about Apple these days, that's fine, but why do they have to be on Hacker News? Why should I care some guy on the internet doesn't want a computer that isn't user serviceable, or a tablet that uses a curated app store that contains 'literally thousands upon thousands of apps I don't need'? Please just go tell your buddies on the linux forums how you built your own distro instead of trolling the internet with articles about stuff you don't like, or at the very least refrain from posting them on a site like Hacker News, which is supposed to be informational (I guess).

The information content of this article is close to zero, it's nothing more than some random rant about stuff that's irrelevant for people who just use their computers to get shit done, instead of making a statement of idealism and tech-ethics out of them. Last time I checked, Macs running OS X are still great for almost any kind of creative application.

axx• 14 years ago

Oh yes... i remember the old Apple Display Connectors.

Tloewald3• 14 years ago

Having a proprietary networking system when no-one else has any networking is hardly a crime. Sticking with it a little too long? Not a crime.

Likewise graphics APIs. (Which platform has non-proprietary 2D APIs?) QuickDraw 3D's problem wasn't that it was proprietary, it was that it sucked.

Likewise QuickTime video. You do realize (a) it was first, and (b) Apple licensed the architecture to the MPEG folk (MP4's container format is QuickTime) and this predates OSX.

I actually had a "discussion" about the whole connector thing with a colleague recently. Eg. In its history The Mac has used three kinds of connectors for mice and keyboards -- a serial connector for the very first Mac, ADB (same cabling as S-Video, so not actually proprietary at all) from 1985 to 1997 or so, and then USB. How's that compare with PC? Go on, I'll let you go Google.

Video is definitely the worst, I'll give you that, but even there it's mainly been a case of sticking to an early standard too long (D25 or whatever it was), the horrific octopus thing (which they tried a second time) and the problems with DVI which aren't unique to Apple.

There was a period when Apple had a weird Ethernet socket that required an adapter for 10BT or RJ45 or Token Ring, but this was because a standard hasn't emerged and competitors generally didn't support networking without an expansion card.

No question Apple has been more proprietary than, say, commodity pc clone makers, but they compare very well to everyone else (Sun, SGI, Commodore, IBM, etc.)

mrich• 14 years ago

I remember these arguments, they always were a bit elitist. But even today I am doing a big part of my productive work on a command line. I wouldn't want to part with the GUI and mouse, sure. But given the choice between either a GUI or a command-line only Unix I will pick the Unix system any day just because it allows automating things easily. Automation and programmability is the thing that sets computers apart from dumb devices like TVs. Many of these things can be done with the help of a GUI nowadays. But most of them cannot be done efficiently without a command line.

calinet62• 14 years ago

If anything the new MacBooks have more expandability than ever... I mean, TWO thunderbolt ports? People do realize that those are just external PCIe x2 ports right? That's more external bandwidth potential than any laptop has had, like, ever.

bpatrianakos• 14 years ago

This sounds more like bandwagon-backlash than the real thing. There's no reasons here. Just a bunch of recycled generic complaints that are pretty trendy to toss around about Apple these days. The next cool thing is hating Apple so all the Apple users will probably write more articles like this and we'll have to read it every day on the front page. Brace yourselves.

supercoder3• 14 years ago

Yeah I agree, such a troll bait article.

He states a bunch of things he doesnt like, but gives no reasons why they're bad.

At the end he still says he's running a Mac Book and it's the happiest he's ever been (albeit with Ubuntu but still). Makes no sense.

jmpeax• 14 years ago

It's remarkably easy to spot these types of article early. They always begin with short sentences, and almost always include the sentence "It has been a good run."

vitalique• 14 years ago

I don't get why the parent is being downvoted and I dislike silent knee-jerk-downvoting at HN very much.

I'm absolutely orthogonal to Apple's services and devices - just never used them, and article does not seem to shed almost any lights on whether I should or shouldn't try to. Actually, it confuses me even more: author dislikes Apple's services (or does he? he's been so enthusiastic in the past!), makes some unclear points about Apple being a 'consumer electronics company now', and then suddenly wraps up with him being perfectly happy with his MacBook Pro today. Now throw in a pathetic iTitle and prepare your WordPress to be hit by the frontpages of the Internet. Am I missing something?

What the article does show clearly though is that we're in urgent need of some nagging/whining detector, if not for the whole Internet then at least for HN's frontpage.

redial3• 14 years ago

To all of those complaining about the new Apple devices, this is what you should do. You should vote with your wallet.

I don't think that you are going to change Apple's mind, but this is the only way they'll listen.

Personally, I think they are to far gone by now. The money pouring in has simply been to much to ignore. It's not the computer for the rest of us any more...It's the computer for the rest of them...

(I am one of them, I just understand your argument and your frustration)

jarek3• 14 years ago

> To all of those complaining about the new Apple devices, this is what you should do. You should vote with your wallet.

But then how will people know I have Taste?

psionski2• 14 years ago

The thing that's been keeping me from buying an Apple device is being associated with their users. This "better than you" attitude is something I just can't stand, it's repulsive. Instead of being ashamed that they wasted $3000 on a computer they could have had for $500 (and could have donated the other $2500), they feel smug about it? WTF!

ricw2• 14 years ago

The problem is that we don't have a choice. There's only one premium option to go for. And it's apple. It's surprising how none of the others have at least created a luxury brand, similar to Toyota/Lexus or Volkswagen/Audi.

redial3• 14 years ago

Dell tried with Adamo. Vaio started out, and was for the longest time, the premium PC brand.

It's not like they didn't try, it's more like they just gave up.

LinXitoW• 14 years ago

What about Thinkpads? They seem to be Windows/Linux equivalent of the Macbooks.

moheeb2• 14 years ago

Can someone move this comment up to its rightful parent "But then how will people know I have Taste?"

I like the fact that we can identify those types of people via a single brand. Let's not change that.

blhack• 14 years ago

Apple is making the exact same mistake the RIM made. They've gone from targeting hardcore fans, to targeting teenagers.

The problem is that teenagers are quick to jump ship to the coolest new thing. Apple has been making "coolest new thing" for a while, but they're getting really popular now, which seems to be inversely proportional to "cool".

For RIM, they moved away from targeting hardcore, email-addicted business people, and it made them vulnerable enough to get killed.

Apple is doing the same thing.

supercoder3• 14 years ago

RIM never moved their target. In fact I still think they try and promote the Blackberry as the device for 'email-addicted business people'.

And I think it's because of the fact they thought their 'hard-core fans' would stick with them put them where they are today , not the other way around.

wvenable• 14 years ago

The device that made Apple what it is now is the iPod.

shimfish4• 14 years ago

This mistake started when Steve Jobs returned to Apple.

And now they have $80 billion dollars in the bank.

xoail• 14 years ago

$120B.

jusben13692• 14 years ago

What happened to RIM is that all they were left with was their hardcore, email-addicted, security minded end users and corporations. But that proved to be a small subset of their overall user base. The majority (me) jumped ship when the iPhone came along. Why? Mobile email was critical to us because we were always on the move. The apps that you could get on the iPhone - whether a 2 hour movie for a plane ride or a flight app that let me understand where my plane was before the gal at the counter did, or maps that let me find a Starbucks near the meeting - more than made up for the slightly less (then) optimal email vs a BB. RIM had to move. They just moved poorly because they couldn't adjust.

Spooky23• 14 years ago

The RIM situation was even worse than you describe. It was actually very similar to Nextel's earlier fast rise and collapse.

They saw erosion in their enterprise sales, but missed the fact that the superior web browsing experience and eventually applications on the iPhone was driving folks away. They honestly thought that their keyboard was still a key differentiator that folks cared about.

So they stuffed the channel in the low end of the market, and pushed the cheap text messaging of BBM as the core offering. Suddenly sketchy cell phone kiosks are pushing BlackBerries, and they became the new T-Mobile Sidekick. Just like with Nextel, that low end push tainted the brand, as thugs and drug dealers learned quickly that BBM (like DirectConnect) was initially not interceptable.

LnxPrgr3• 14 years ago

People keep saying this, but I'm not sure why.

Maybe my experience is warped, but if I had to stereotype I'd say it's younger people walking around with Android phones and older well-off businesspeople walking around with iPhones. I'm not sure "targeting teenagers" really holds.

The people I know who still use Blackberries? Both of them are hardcore fans. Back in the 90s, every Mac user I knew was a hardcore fan… all five or so of them.

Apple is what it is today because it started selling to everyone else. RIM is what it is today because it hasn't yet figured out how to do that.

rprospero• 14 years ago

As for why people keep saying that Apple is targeting teenagers, the reason is that the iPhone has a crazy bathtub curve to its user base and most people only see half of it. The wealthiest, most successful business people I know all own iPhones. On the other hand, all the people I know with who are unemployed with uncontrolled substance abuse issues also own iPhones. Everyone in the middle owns Android. In a particularly funny anecdote, I knew someone who went through rehab, got clean, and almost immediately tried to replace his iPhone with an Android.

If you don't know any crackheads, then the iPhone seems like the phone of the wealthy entrepreneur. If you don't know any people who are successful in business, then the iPhone looks like the choice of the crackheads. Your experience is warped, but no more so than those who say its the phone of teenagers.

tjogin3• 14 years ago

Apple has never been about the hardcore. They've always made as appliance-like products as they can for the everyman.

gurkendoktor• 14 years ago

I think the company you're explaining is Microsoft :) Both MS and RIM have released a me-too tablet with a curiously bad email client, and both have lost a lot of smartphone market share since the iPhone & Android have been introduced.

And even if Apple is treating power users badly - I certainly think they are - there is still nobody who treats them better. The BlackBerry was killed by more practical smartphones. Who will kill the Mac?

illuminate• 14 years ago

"Apple is making the exact same mistake the RIM made. They've gone from targeting hardcore fans, to targeting teenagers."

What is a RIM "hardcore fan" these days, and how many of them still buy RIM products? How profitable is the demographic who wants a smartphone but needs a full keyboard?

Derbasti2• 14 years ago

I feel exactly the same way. And just like the author. I don't quite fully understand why.

By the way, I don't think the author is really criticizing Apple much. He just recognizes that Apple's vision is no longer in line with his own.

supercoder3• 14 years ago

I wonder what was the vision he thought he shared with Apple ?

If you reverse all his points then it seems like in his mind Apple provided ultra customisable hardware and software with great options for the enterprise. I don't remember that Apple.

Derbasti2• 14 years ago

There is that vision of the Unix with a nice UI.

drivebyacct24• 14 years ago

In my opinion, it's simple.

5 years ago, Apple was seemingly "light years" ahead of everyone. Kowtowing wasn't really even a thought because so much more was being provided than elsewhere that there was no real compromise to choose Apple.

That's not true and is increasingly more than just untrue...

epaga• 14 years ago

The site isn't working for me, here it is in Google Cache: http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:http://...

ripperdoc2• 14 years ago

I can sympathize and I feel less content with Apple than I used to. I love their hardware - anyway I always find myself buying a new device rather than upgrading. Apple does great stuff but as other's I'm really worried that they won't fix their awkardness with the web.

But another note - how come no one can throw in a bit of analysis to back up these kind of argument? Otherwise it just seems like typical disillusionment (as products and companies inevitably evolve). As such it doesn't mean anything, it just means one person with a blog decided to use Ubuntu. There is a guy with a blog for every product that has ever changed. Throw in some analysis, and it may make a bigger difference.

shimfish4• 14 years ago

It's simply stunning to me to see how long it's taken the computer geeks to work this out. Apple stopped making toys for you over a decade ago and you are only just realising it now?

I guess this is another consequence of the filter bubble. As all we read on the internet is the opinion of other geeks, we forget that geeks are hopelessly outnumbered by normals and they are the ones Apple is targeting and reaping the rewards.

This was always Steve Jobs vision and it's not like it was a secret.

However, the most ludicrous part of this post is the suggestion that Apple would be best served as a company making servers again and trying its best to grab back that lucrative desktop linux market.

This, in a nutshell, is why Apple was revolutionary. The geeks just simply didn't see normal people and made hardware and software that suited their own needs and behold, it sucked mightily. Apple made the step of putting the normal person first and, shockingly, normal people decided to pay good money for their products.

All of this should be obvious to anyone who reads HN and witnessed Apples meteoric rise. It's a bit disconcerting to discover that apparently it isn't.

tolmasky• 14 years ago

The article isn't saying Apple should go back to making servers, he is just saying they are no longer serving him in particular anymore, which is fair.

I will however contend that MY main issue with Apple now a-days is that its actually becoming worse on the "normal person front" (at least when it comes to OS X). Messages for example is a complete disaster. I regularly have to help family members with their Macs (many of which originally moved to the Mac on my insistence ages ago), and I can tell you that they are still quite confused (increasingly so) about how to use these machines. Here is an article that touches on this: http://blog.davidchartier.com/post/36634783567/im-getting-si...

However, I am still pretty happy with iOS/iDevices. I have not been as happy with an Apple product as with the iPad mini in a LONG time. I do agree with others though that if they don't get their act together with "services" (Maps, Sync, basically anything that isn't judged on a purely client side "niceness" scale), it may be an issue for them. However my opinion is that they just shouldn't be bothering with this at all, but that's a whole other story.

microtonal7• 14 years ago

There is also a contingent of UNIX users who use Mac OS X pragmatically. I have never had the illusion that Apple wasn't a consumer device company at heart. But Macs have been great UNIX workstations for the last decade or so. Once they make more serious attempts to turn their laptop line into 'iOS computers', I'll switch back to Linux or BSD. But for now, it is good hardware with a good UNIX operating system.

pjmlp6• 14 years ago

When I was at CERN, back in 2004 they made a session at the IT building showing us how great it would be to use Mac OS X as UNIX workstation.

Those days are long gone it seems.

demallien2• 14 years ago

I just bought a MacBook Air last week, after a 2 year break without a Mac laptop. I had been using Lion and Mountain Lion on a Mac Mini, but the last week or so have been a revelation for me. Crazy battery life (about 9 hours of normal programming), full screen apps with swiping to switch between them, fast fast fast at everyday operations thanks to the SSD, the whole thing is at the same time a major turn towards iDevice-ification, and a giant leap forward in usability for laptops.

I wonder how many people worrying about iOS-ification are:

a) running Lion, where the transition was still in mid-course, or

b) using a desktop, where the design decisions aren't so obviously right (my Mac Mini for example has a huge monitor, hence I'm less inclined to use full-screen apps)

In case a), there were definite weakness in Lion. Full-screen apps hadn't yet made their near-global appearance, and Spaces was ... weird. These problems have been shaken out in Mountain Lion. For b) it seems to me that OSX has been optimised for the laptop environment, where screen real-estate is limited. If you aren't using full-screen as your standard app config, you're missing out on some of what makes Mountain Lion a great experience).

When I compare all of this to the laptop I use at work, a Dell running Fedora, there is no comparison. My Mac is a far, far better development machine (well, aside from the fact that brew is weak sauce compared to a full-blown yum, but then this is not news). It's not a question of there being pros and cons on each side, my Mac is simply better for pretty much any metric I care to imagine.

Which is not to say that some people may not have genuine grievances with the current Mac platform. I just wanted to add my own personal experience - going from being mildly disappointed by Lion to completely wowed by Mountain Lion.

rayiner4• 14 years ago

Apple has made no attempts to turn Macs into "iOS." it's copied some features, like full screen, but the system is as developer friendly as ever (and more unix compatible than ever).

greedo6• 14 years ago

Please stop with the "geeks and normals" meme. It does nothing but make you sound elitist.

shimfish4• 14 years ago

Is it the terms you object to or do you fundamentally reject the premise?

smacktoward• 14 years ago

We forget that geeks are hopelessly outnumbered by normals and they are the ones Apple is targeting and reaping the rewards.

This was always Steve Jobs vision and it's not like it was a secret.

Nah, Steve Jobs' vision wasn't to make computers for "normals." That was Jef Raskin's (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jef_Raskin) vision. Steve Jobs' vision was to make computers for Steve Jobs.

macrael2• 14 years ago

Using the svtle theme while not being part of svtle comes off as really slimy. You are ripping off someone else's work and there are no two ways about it.

TallboyOne• 14 years ago

https://github.com/gravityonmars/wp-svbtle

macrael2• 14 years ago

Exactly? No one should use that theme.

georgeorwell3• 14 years ago

Is software or hardware cloning ever OK?

caublestone• 14 years ago

Why does this have to be such a negative article? I would prefer to see a praising of how great the latest Ubuntu is in detail. Intro with "I've been a power mac user for x years..." and then go on to sing the praises.

Maci• 14 years ago

Doesn't have the intro you posit and maybe a slight off topic in places. But perhaps informative. http://eggfreckles.net/notes/my-week-with-linux/

nostromo• 14 years ago

The ironic ending of the blog post is interesting. He's running Ubuntu... on a MacBook Pro.

Even if you hate the software and all things iOS, it's hard to find a better designed laptop.

xiaomai• 14 years ago

> For the first time in as long as I can remember, I know my next laptop and phone will not have a Apple logo on it.

wging• 14 years ago

A well-designed laptop which is heading toward zero upgradeablility.

rimantas3• 14 years ago

Zero upgradeability (in the sense of zero need to upgrade: does not break, is powerful enough) is a good sign of well designed.

czhiddy2• 14 years ago

Aside from PCMCIA/ExpressCard upgrades, which are useless nowadays thanks to USB2/3, the only upgrades available to laptops are memory + disk. RAM is cheap enough where companies can toss in 8gb (soon, 16gb) without a second thought, which is more than enough for probably 99% of the customer base for as long as the laptop is in service.

That leaves the disk drive as the one non-upgradable part. I imagine part of the reason for this is the (relative) bulkiness of the 2.5" SSD form factor. Are there any other standardized sizes that could work in a rMBP form factor? 1.8" maybe? The 11" MBA may have problems fitting it, but a swappable 1.8" SSD on the larger models would be quite nice.

mcantelon• 14 years ago

It's the first time he's been happy with an OS rather than OS X, so it would make sense that he wouldn't swap out the hardware before making sure he can live without OS X (seeing as OS X is hard to run without Apple hardware).

jff• 14 years ago

"Apple, I am done with you! I shall throw out this $2000 laptop, and purchase a Thinkpad, because I cannot see any way to get any more use out of the hardware I have now!"

meaty• 14 years ago

Sell it before it depreciates further, buy a ThinkPad with half the change and go on holiday for a couple of days?

ismarc• 14 years ago

I use a Macbook Pro for work and while the hardware may be pleasant to look at, it's a pain to use. The keyboard is set entirely too close to the screen, meaning I can't use it comfortably for very long without an external screen and/or keyboard, the nice 90 degree angles along the edges mean that if I can using it I quickly get marks in my wrists from it (and occasionally have hands start to go to sleep, a really bad sign), the touchpad is placed to where it's difficult to keep straight wrists/proper keyboard usage without touching the touchpad. But is sure does look pretty.

I had a Lenovo T60 for quite a while and, while it looked like a cheap piece of plastic, it was wonderfully durable, keyboard was placed in a good spot, the positioning of the buttons/touchpad were all just right. Just because it looks nice does not make something well-designed, and I have yet to use an Apple device that I would consider anywhere close to ergonomic friendly (the iPod nano being the closest as you only really used 2 "buttons" on the circle, pause/play and next).

kitsune_• 14 years ago

I disagree. I own a Lenovo Thinkpad x220. It's perfect (for me).

Its keyboard is reason alone that it beats the MacBook Pro.

On top of that, I bought it back in 2011 for around 960 USD (converted). The configuration included an i5-2520M, 8GB of RAM, 320GB HDD, an 80GB m-SATA SSD and an upgrade to a 3-year on-site warranty.

Adaptive• 14 years ago

Same here. I'm typing this on a macbook pro that I'm currently sucking data off onto my x220 running Arch. Similar setup. That msata bay rocks with an SSD in it, eh?

FWIW, specs say 8gb max but I've got 16gb ticking away in it nicely. You're probably aware of that but worth posting here for others if they are interested. One of the best laptop keyboards I've used.

knightni2• 14 years ago

I really love my work thinkpad, except I'm not a big fan of trackpoints, and the touchpad is truly hateful. For work that's fine because I'm always docked, but I probably wouldn't consider them for personal use for that reason alone.

antidoh• 14 years ago

He's using a Macbook because he already has one. He's not going to buy another one.

primitur7• 14 years ago

I've been trying to kick the Apple habit since I got my first tiBook, which was the _revelation_ for me at the time, that Apple of all people were producing the Unix laptop, and also making the physicality of the thing badass.

So, in my effort to stay true to my Unix'ish roots, I've gotten a Motorola Lapdock real cheap, its at least as comfy as a macbook Air, and I'm plugging in things like .. raspberryPi, MK802/808 Android or Ubuntu sticks, my desktop 'slab PC', and so on. I think I'm close to kicking the habit - they /really/ lost me at the drop of the MacbookPro17" .. my existing one will run into the ground, and I will soon put Linux on it.

In the meantime, I would suggest that those looking for an alternative to the sexy nature of the hardware aspect, albeit with a little extra effort, switching to Ubuntu-on-a-Stick is really a pleasant treat.

Terretta3• 14 years ago

> they /really/ lost me at the drop of the MacbookPro17"

I feel your pain! It was the only laptop with enough screen real estate and power to work as a desktop on the road.

But lately with the increasingly draconian carry-on restrictions I've downsized my luggage, and turns out my MPB17 just barely doesn't fit in a 16x13x7 bag (that fits in the new commuter jet regs). The MBPr15 fits, has more screen res, and is lighter. So I had been planning an upgrade. If the new MBPr13 had dual graphics I'd be willing to even go with that as it would fit in my puddle jumper bag's outside pocket.

But... This past year the outsized MBP17 had me trying out my iPad 3 instead, and now I'm not sure I need a laptop for travel at all.

hollerith3• 14 years ago

Which Lapdock? The 500?

PLejeck• 14 years ago

See, my only thought at that was "Really? Ubuntu? C'mon, pick a better Linux Distro!"

As much as I love the idea behind Ubuntu, it really cannot compare to OS X (or, for development, a more nerd-centric Linux distro like Arch)

xentronium• 14 years ago

I gave up on arch after six or seven hours trying to get my sound card, pulseaudio and skype to work together.

jmccree2• 14 years ago

I actually didn't mind OSX too much, but the using my work provided MBP was an experience in frustration. The usability was horrible compared to my thinkpad, and I ended up leaving it docked as a desktop mostly.

Every corner of the MBP is rounded except the edge that your wrists actually come into contact with, which are sharp and leave painful marks. The trackpad lacked actual "mouse buttons" which made a simple task like highlighting and right clicking on text a finger dexterity test. The keyboard feels cheap and slow. Most of all, I miss my trackpoint. :)

For actual usability, it seems to me ThinkPad is a close to laptop perfection as you can get. I replaced my 2007 TP (Windows XP) with a new one this year (Ubuntu). If apple sold OSX for non-apple hardware I'd probably be running that instead of linux.

ef4• 14 years ago

If your wrists are in contact with the front edge, your desk is probably too high and you might be much more comfortable at a lower height (even beyond the sharp-edge issue, your shoulders may thank you).

Or to quote Steve Jobs, "you're holding it wrong." ;-)

jordan0day• 14 years ago

"Even if you hate the software and all things iOS, it's hard to find a better designed laptop."

I think this was the case for most of the 2000's, and a big reason my last few laptops have been Macs -- but I'm not so sure it's that way any more. For a long time, the big PC OEM's seemed to view hardware specs as the main difference people would buy a $1500 laptop over a $500 one, so they just stuck better hardware inside the $500 shell. Nowadays I think they've caught on that people pay attention to design and overall build quality.

It might still be hard to find a better designed laptop, but I think the PC OEM's are finally starting to make some that can at least compete.

logn• 14 years ago

I think the author is maybe reading too many Apple fanboy blogs. Apple still makes OS X and all the developer tools. Developing for iOS is far easier than Android.

Sure the Mac is becoming more of an appliance but with stagnant hardware speeds is it that big of a deal? Also, Apple has been hostile to DIY repairs and add-ons since forever. I remember being 12 years old arguing on the 1-800-APPL-SOS help line that 3rd party RAM was not causing my problem and no I wouldn't uninstall it to get help.

Apple relies on its developers to power the App Store. They (hopefully) won't forget that. I'm not worried.

You don't hear anyone ever talking about how awesome Apple Logic is for making music or how easy Final Cut Pro is for video. They still make them and they're great quality. Just because the masses of Apple reporters aren't focused on your baby doesn't mean Apple doesn't care about it. Apple is just selling their profit vision to investors.

randomdata• 14 years ago

Apple relies on its developers to power the App Store. They (hopefully) won't forget that.

Well, I'm sure they won't forget the 25 [1]. They may forget about everyone else though.

[1] http://techcrunch.com/2012/12/04/analyst-just-25-developers-...

pirateking• 14 years ago

Computer as appliance means not a general-purpose computer. If you cannot use it to execute your own code and access the hardware, then it is not general-purpose. That means the new wave of locked down computers are instead multi-purpose computers - those purposes being defined by what it cannot do.

Apple makes damn good multi-purpose machines for the most common purposes of most people - which they have consistently explained is their company's goal forever. Just look at their general-purpose tools (XServe, Mac Pro, Developer Tools) being neglected, and single-purpose machines being cannibalized (iPod) or taken lightly (Apple TV).

All of Apple's lineup is of respectable quality, but it is obvious where the focus is converging. Now there is an opening for others to explore new general-purpose and single-purpose machines.

sjmulder• 14 years ago

I don’t agree with the point on convergence. It seems clear to me that Apple is not turning OS X into iOS. It’s still very much a WIMP interface best suited for keyboard and mouse. Windows 8 is a good example of PC/tablet convergence, and however much you like or dislike that approach, it’s the opposite of what Apple is doing.

On some other points I do agree, like the gluing down and lack of expandability/repairability.

aabc2• 14 years ago

I don't get this. Why are you using svbtle theme if you don't belong to the svbtle community ? I know there is some wordpress theme out there that clones svbtle but it's not an excuse.

Using svbtle theme does not make you smarter.

pjzedalis• 14 years ago

Perhaps he found the clone and liked it. It is possible he had no idea what svbtle is. It's also possible he does not care.

Knowing he is not in svbtle does not make you smarter.

BenoitEssiambre• 14 years ago

I wish to concur the statement that Ubuntu is now the fastest most user friendly modern OS out there.

Try it you might be surprised.

SquareWheel• 14 years ago

Has much changed in two years? Every once in a while I hear Linux is finally user friendly, and I go try it and my multiple monitors don't work and my graphics card drivers require manual installation and I get constantly riddled with permissions prompts which I'm sure is necessary but still annoys me as an end user.

hippee-lee2• 14 years ago

Not much has changed. I stopped upgrading my work desktop because the drivers for my wired Ethernet needs to be recompiled every Ubuntu upgrade. Very annoying when I am in the middle of a sprint and I have to stop to figure out why basic things are no longer working.

djisjke• 14 years ago

It has. But there is still the ol' quirks. I had problems with sounds on ubuntu on my ThinkPad. I had to install XFCE for it to play nice with 2 monitors (since the gpu in the old laptop is kind of sucky). But Macosx has even worse compability, so if you buy computer parts that are knows to play nice with linux you'll have a swell time :).

Also, when you start playing with tiling window managers you'll be glad you don't have a mac.

glogla• 14 years ago

Sadly, I'm still in Apple's target market, because Lenovo is unable to put reasonable displays in their 14" laptops.

netcan• 14 years ago

This emotion in this blog is in a lot of ways revealing about Apple. The writer sounds hurt. I don't think Microsoft would have attracted this kind of response.

For me, I tend to look at changes in terms of their effect on the ecosystem as whole. From that perspective, I'm very glad that Apple exist, as they are.

I like that Apple is fanatically adherent to its ideologies. Taking things to extremes is also a good way of discovering principles and the uncovering the costs of compromises. In any case, I think

An ipad is extremely simple. The pool of people who can become completely comfortable with it in a few days is larger then for any other computer. It's metaphors are tidiest. An iOS app is a more clearly defined concept, for example, then it is on Android.

A fanatic trying to prove that a simple life on $500 per person per month is the ideal way of living probably isn't right, but she is useful to have in your life. She will probably make all sorts of discoveries that will enhance your life, even if you don't buy her entire ideology. In your life you will be making all sorts of compromises. These have tradeoffs. Inevitably you will be wrong about the pros & cons of some choices.

Maybe glued together hardware is not worth the tradeoff. Maybe it is. Maybe it is sometimes. Now we get to find out.

At the end of 2012, things look better than they did 1 year ago from this perspective. We have several viable operating systems from three very different companies. It seems likely & possible that new entrants will appear if those three don't cover all needs.

kayoone• 14 years ago

The thing is, every company in the comsumer PC space would go the exact same route as Apple if they could. Look at Dell, HP etc trying to mimic Apples every move in the consumer computing space. Microsoft doing an AppStore model in Windows 8 etc. If its not Apple, somebody else would gladly take its place and it might be the fate of any of todays most popular consumer computing company.

Now of course you can still use Linux and build your own PC, but you will, and have always been, a minority in the market.

greedo6• 14 years ago

I'm old. I remember back in the 70's, a neighbor of my grandparents who was building his own color TV. This was probably around 1973, and I think it might have been a HeathKit. I thought that was the coolest thing! Unsurprisingly, there weren't a lot of people building their own TVs.

I've paid my dues, physically building servers, installing various BSDs from stacks of CDs, fighting with compilers on Solaris x86, queuing my jobs on my university's PDP11. Now I'm content to just use OSX, or RHEL, or even AIX if required. But I continually try to avoid transferring my own preferences into a jeremiad against whatever's popular.

Apple will continue to do well as long as it serves its customers. It's gone from being Apple Computers Inc. to Apple. That's a hint of where they see their focus being.

gramsey• 14 years ago

> You are about unit sales now. You need more and more consumers to want to get the latest Apple device. I get it. I don’t agree with it, but that is where you are now.

This author seems personally hurt by the fact that Apple rapidly releasing new devices, as if he feels that he is being obligated to purchase the latest products as soon as they come out and doesn't want to.

Is there a small, vocal minority of the Apple fanbase that has to have the latest thing? Certainly. But the average user does not, and has no need to upgrade their Macbook Air just because a new one comes out a year later. In fact, I've had mine for a year and a half, and I have no need or desire to upgrade anytime soon.

> I didn’t jump at the iPhone 5. I wasn’t in-line on day one like I was with the iPhone 3 and iPhone 4. I am unsure why I just didn’t care anymore.

Great, you don't need to care! Before the iPhone was released, would you have stood in line for a phone at all? I know people who still use the iPhone 3G and have no issues, because they don't need a retina display or the ability to run intense games, they just want a phone that works.

Either this author:

(1) Wants to have bleeding-technology all the time but is offended by the fact that he would have to pay for it often, or (2) Is so brainwashed by the blogomania surrounding Apple that he is unsatisfied with the fact that the company keeps fairly rapid release cycles, therefore causing his products to technically be "older versions".

nicholassmith2• 14 years ago

I've been a Mac user for nearly a decade, first machine I bought was a G4 12" iBook. My Uni final year project was a Cocoa app when saying "Hey I'm making a Mac App!" got you strange looks. I've also developed on Linux for work for about 5/6 years. Sometimes, even cross-platform OS X/Linux development.

Has the situation changed and 'nerds' are no longer Apple's target market? Kind of. A bit. If you cared about upgradability and taking that machine and using it for 6 years and it being awesome then sure, Apple's changed. It's not for you. If like me you came to Apple as you had no interest in upgrading a machine, ever, at all, then they've not changed.

I still have: a built in, relatively decent Terminal. I have command line build tools (and yes we can argue about the quality, and whether Apple should be forking their own versions, but that's a topic for another day). Apple ships their own IDE & SDK for the system, to anyone, and they've done that for as long as I've been using them as well.

Apple reducing upgradability isn't them thumbing their noses at us. When they release a version of the OS without a Terminal we can all go "Well, Apple has moved on from us developers", or if they pull XCode from the App Store. Until then, it's Apple improving their products inline with what a large portion of people want.

bambax• 14 years ago

> If like me you came to Apple as you had no interest in upgrading a machine, ever, at all, then they've not changed.

Not true; at some point in time versions of OS X kind of stop working (no new version of Firefox or Chrome for you if you're running anything prior to 10.5 for example).

nicholassmith2• 14 years ago

Sorry, I should have been more clear about hardware upgrading versus software upgrading. But you do raise an interesting point, as Apple progresses their software so do companies, so if Firefox and Chrome no longer work then is that the responsibility of Apple? I'd say no, and I'd say OS X 10.5 is still a mighty good OS with excellent features throughout, but I don't blame FF and Chrome for moving forward.

cynwoody• 14 years ago

Prior to 10.6, actually.

I just upgraded from 10.5 to 10.6.8 for that very reason.

JuDue• 14 years ago

If you want an upgradable computer, then all-in-one designs were never going to be the economical path.

Predicting this guy just needs to wait to see the next Mac Pro.

I'm still delighted with Apple.

Both iOS and OSX are prime for some rethinking (beyond a few licks of paint). But I do think Apple is in a far better position to do this well and in their own time now the Windows 8 threat has imploded on itself (somewhat ... well, at least it's not found huge momentum yet).

revscat• 14 years ago

You know, I was so happy when I discovered HN. It is normally such a refreshing respite from all the other tech blogs and aggregators, and from /r/tech in particular.

But over the past few weeks I keep seeing vapid, information-less articles like this make it to the front page, and it's pretty disappointing to see happen. The knee-jerk anti-Apple sentiments seem to have infected even this (mostly) austere and considerate site.

I hope this is a temporary thing.

hack_edu• 14 years ago

It's not a temporary thing, and in fact had been going on for a few years now. We are currently in the phase of blatant link bait self posted blogs gaming the front page. Prior to this tend for the past year or so, there was the "rah-rah look at this cool startup and secretly plug my own" phase. The current one will likely continue until a big bust or something else comes along. Likely the latter.

phy6• 14 years ago

Man, his phrasing is awkward and annoying.

jsz0• 14 years ago

Couldn't disagree more. I'm very happy with Apple's current software/hardware products. Won't bother to go into detail since the author doesn't go into detail much with his gripes either. Not worth the keystrokes. (semi related I'm downright giddy about the new iTunes. I think it's a great sign of where Apple's desktop software is heading)

rymith• 14 years ago

I am so tired of this bullshit. The iMac was never upgradeable, and it isn't designed to be. You needed two giant suction cups to get into it, and less than 0.5% of iMac owners ever did this. To buy an all in one for it's upgradability is simply retarded. You could upgrade the RAM or the hard drive, and on the new 27", you can upgrade the RAM with the push of a button.

So lets please cut the straw man arguments. You want to be cool for hating on Apple, and decided that ignominious post would do it. The problem, you just look like a fool. Apple has never made an easily upgradeable all in one, And yet, if you want to customize a Mac, you still have that option with the MacPro.

Lets call out the real reason; you want to feel cool. You felt Apple made you cool when they had a tiny market share, but now has too many users for you to feel exclusive.

rayiner4• 14 years ago

These articles are such a load of crap, for a simple reason: Mac is still the development environment for iPad, and Apple is all about Apps, Apps, Apps.

OS X is better and faster than it has ever been. It's not any more locked down than it has ever been. It has more features than it ever has. Apple's laptops are less upgradable, but since when have laptops been particularly upgradable?

You can do "real work" on an iPad. It's a phenomenal machine for consuming and producing text. As a lawyer I spend my life reading or writing text. The retina screen is an absolute revelation for that. I can't run CAD programs on it, but then again I never did on my Mac either.

PagingCraig• 14 years ago

Boring rant piece.

ebbv• 14 years ago

Another day another one of these absurd, self-righteous blog posts.

What's hilarious to me is that only Apple draws this kind of posturing and absurdity.

You don't see blog posts like this about Dell or Sony. But you DID see posts like this about Microsoft in the '90s.

It's really more about standing up and decrying whatever company is on top than anything else. People feel like by slagging on the top tech company they are taking a stance as an independent, righteous, thoughtful person.

When in reality they are taking the most obvious, boring position available.

forthewyn2• 14 years ago

A-men. The self righteous tone gets SO old after a while.

What's also strange to me is that these posts get the up votes they do. is this REALLY news to anyone?

forthewyn2• 14 years ago

Quite honestly, this kind of post just makes me want to hurl. The OP was NEVER the target market for Apple, it just so happened that Apple's design choices coincided with his or her needs.

If you ever thought Apple's primary target market was uber-geeks, you were seriously deluding yourself. The reason so many of us were drawn to OSX was that it runs Mach BSD under the hood - so yay, we all get a nice convenient UNIX(TM) workstation that also runs commercial software and games.

I've got to admit I'm getting awfully sick of this kind of meaningless hand wringing. You want commodity hardware and the ability to tinker with everything* then by all means go buy a Linux box, just don't get all high and mighty and act as if Apple has betrayed you, because from their perspective exactly nothing has changed.

gavinlynch• 14 years ago

I'm amazed it took so long for someone to make this point. That was going to be my only response: "Yes, you're right. You're not the target market. End of Story."

calinet62• 14 years ago

What a tired, sensationalist argument.

Use what you like, embrace change, stop complaining.

tharris0101• 14 years ago

Full Disclosure: I'm an Apple user that has been criticizing them for the last few years for a variety of things but...

This article (at least the first half) comes down to:

Apple makes products that don't suit me (okay, so don't buy an iPad).

Apple has glued their new screens to the metal (Is this really that big of a deal?).

Apple uses proprietary screws (This has been done for years)

There are lots of things in the curated Mac App Store that are of no use to him (So don't use the App Store or don't buy apps that are useless to you)

In the comments, the OP admits that he will continue to use Apple hardware because it is the best but will run Linux (Apple makes their money off hardware sales, so its of no loss to them).

There are many reasons to criticize Apple lately, I just don't see these reasons as having merit.

IRecognition: I am no longer Apple's Target Market

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