Extreme Heat conference cancelled due to extreme heat warning

Everyone should provide a safe and comfortable planet for everyone. Instead we said this is fine, as we literally set ourselves on fire, and then literally melted our faces off

zaik• 29 days ago

Reminds me of "dermatology convention in Hawaii": https://youtube.com/shorts/1uRxIe1dXGU

shitloadofbooks• 29 days ago

"Extreme Heat" seems to be 37-40 degrees Celsius which is bafflingly mundane to me as an Australian who grew up in rural New South Wales. We'd pack 30 kids and a teacher into an un-airconditioned classroom with just a ceiling fan and the windows open in that temperature.

I imagine the buildings there just aren't built to support that heat plus the body height of hundreds or thousands of attendees?

winstonp• 29 days ago

the British are notoriously sensitive to heat. They'll call 30 Celsius weather a heat wave.

jorl17• 29 days ago

I'm from Portugal and I start losing it at 25. 30 degrees is insane.

Last summer my house got to 39, and I didn't have AC (it was broken). I think I'm still recovering.

wil421• 29 days ago

That’s normal where I live in the Southeast US from late May to late September. Plus 60-99% humidity, I can see the air in the mornings.

There’s something about 85F/30C and 80%+ humidity that prevents the temp from going much higher for a longer period of time.

zoenolan• 29 days ago

https://youtu.be/mMqkuAb-HYg

human305893• 29 days ago

Euro buildings are built to keep heat in. Aus buildings are leaky tents.

eisa012• 29 days ago

That should actually help you also with AC: Keep the cold in, and reduce the electricity costs

fy202• 29 days ago

If they are insulated properly (lots of roof insulation) it also keeps the heat out. I'm building a house and last week it reached 32c here, inside got no warmer than 23c on the upper floor. I don't have AC installed yet, just HRV.

rstuart4133• 28 days ago

As an Aussie who's spent time in Germany in one of these heat waves, this is definitely one aspect. But it's not just "keep the heat in". They are designed with huge thermal mass, so once warm they stay warm for a day or so.

When the heat wave struck, initially that thermal inertia works in your favour as the cool building keeps the interior cool. But after a day or two it heats up. Once that happens, the temperature at night doesn't drop. As you say, ventilation is not good, so the humidity rises too. The thing becomes an overnight sauna.

After one night of this, I went looking for a fan. In my Australian home, every room has a ceiling fan. In this German dwelling (rented by my daughter, an Aussie, for the past few years) there wasn't a single fan in the house, and worse none of the nearby shops sold fans. It looked to me like there was no "social knowledge" of fans or how to handle heat in general. I eventually got a fan off Amazon, who thankfully delivered the next day.

We were also there in another year in winter. These same buildings were amazing the cold. They could maintain a cosy inside temperature with very little extra energy. But geeze, you don't want to be in one in a heatwave that goes on for days.

weightedreply• 29 days ago

We need a humidity comparison to go with temperature.

I grew up in a humid city and summers were unbearable. Now I live in a dry climate and 30°C is pretty comfortable.

AstroNutt2• 29 days ago

Temperature Humidity Index. Or as they now call it for normies, "feels like temperature"

maxerickson• 29 days ago

Humidity makes a big difference in how stressful the temperature is (wet bulb temperature accounts for this somewhat). The age of the attendees and the tendency of the building to heat would also be factors.

anthk4• 29 days ago

40C in the Atlantic Spain with the Foehn effect (weather for today and tomorrow) would make 30C in Australia a joke.

The humidity here it's hell. You feel 35C like ~42C in dry climates.

eloisius2• 29 days ago

A lot of it is acclimatization. In Taipei this morning, at 9:30 it’s already 31C and 73% humidity, forecasted to hit 37C by noon. My first year living here this was unbearable, but now it’s tolerable. It’s just summer, not a spurious heat wave.

tzs• 29 days ago

How does the humidity in rural New South Wales compare to London?

gonzo412• 29 days ago

Depends, In northern NSW, the heat it humid, in the south / west it's usually dry. It gets hot, like opening a oven door, but it's not a wet humid heat that kills you.

nomilk• 29 days ago

And that was after running around a semi-arid playground playing 'tips' or touch footy during recess and lunch!

contingencies• 29 days ago

No worries as they'd had their vegemite for brekkie providing all the salt they need to offset the constant sweat. None of this soft modern electrolyte bullshit, just beer dregs on toast.

jcranmer• 29 days ago

People tend to rely on air temperatures when in reality the lethality of heat is probably more linked to the wet-bulb temperature.

The human body has a natural resting temperature of about 37°C, and metabolism of course generates more heat constantly, so we constantly have to shed that heat. When the temperature is low, we can rely purely on conducting the heat into the atmosphere to shed the heat (which is probably why internal body temperature is higher than the atmosphere!). At higher temperatures, conduction is less efficient, or sometimes even adds heat load into the system (at above 37°C, obviously), so we start relying on evaporative cooling (i.e., sweat) to cool us down.

The wet-bulb temperature is the minimum temperature that can be reached by evaporative cooling. So when the wet-bulb temperature is in the mid-30s °C… people start to become literally unable to regulate their core body temperature, and the heat is lethal. Wet-bulb is largely a combination of the temperature and humidity, but unfortunately, it's not typically reported in most weather reports, so people go off of the air temperature (and the humidity) that is reported.

Which is a long-winded way of saying "the humidity matters a lot for how much a given temperature is bearable." I don't know what environment you come from purely by rural New South Wales, but my first guess is the semi-arid and thus low-humidity bush regions of the state, which means the apparent wet-bulb temperature of 37-40°C would be a lot lower than the equivalent 37-40°C for most of the humid continental climates of Europe.

jesse_faden• 29 days ago

Dew point is a much better measure of the oppressive, muggy, sweltering feeling than humidity. The dew point in Australia ranges in the 5ºc - 15ºc range at which 30ºc after sunset feels vastly different, way cooler than South East Asia where the dew point is constantly above 24ºc.

shoaloak• 29 days ago

This for sure. I notice quite a difference with 30 degrees in rural Portugal vs the Netherlands. You sweat a lot more due to the higher humidity.

fulafel• 29 days ago

Theory primer (from https://derangedphysiology.com/main/cicm-primary-exam/thermo...):

The total heat transfer of a human is the same as the metabolic heat production, and is approximately 100 watts, or 400 kJ/hr, or 60-70 kcal/hr at rest. It occurs by:

  >  Radiation (50%)
  >  Convection (30%)
  >  Evaporation (20%)
  >  Conduction (usually 0%)

(Radiation and convection can either cool or heat you depending on the environment)

Noaidi8• 29 days ago

I imagine people who lived in the UK for generations have genes that are adapted to a more mild, cooler climate.

https://www.cell.com/trends/genetics/fulltext/S0168-9525(20)...

tomjakubowski• 29 days ago

Much of the population of Australia are from those same groups.

seydor2• 29 days ago

Yeah we ve reached stupid levels of weather scare. France did have some extreme temperatures over 42, but 40 is a typical Mediterranean heat wave, not Armageddon

butchkass• 29 days ago

It’s litterally the hottest month of June ever registered in France, beating a 23 years old record. Very typical heat wave indeed.

EDIT: actually yesterday was the hottest single day ever in recorded french history, and it happened in the merry month of June, not August. Truly your typical heat wave.

EDIT2: I was wrong, the record is not actually 23 years old, but… 1 year old, as the record had already been broken in 2025. Can’t wait to get my next dose of very typical 44C temps in may next year.

strogonoff• 29 days ago

Looking just at ambient air temperature is an easy mistake to make. I used to be like that, always surprised why people whine so much near the coast in winter with their comfortable numbers and thinking I’m superhuman compared to them. I stopped when I learned first-hand that their negative 17 degrees feel as bad as our negative 30.

If you live in a town in New South Wales where the average humidity is less than 50% in the wettest (or, should I say, least dry) season, you might not understand what it feels like in London where the average doesn’t dip below 65% any time of year.

Today London will feel at least 4 degrees Celsius hotter than Hong Kong. The latter is already an extremely unpleasant place to be in these conditions (and had in fact its own very hot weather warning issued), and unlike London it has a very strong culture of air conditioning.

4 degrees might seem like not a lot, but heat extremes are a tricky beast. Once your body cannot evaporate heat fast enough, you’re literally toast.

fatnoah• 28 days ago

I'm in the northeastern US and it's very common for weather reporting to include the Heat Index (https://www.weather.gov/ama/heatindex) which takes temperature and humidity into account.

kuerbel• 29 days ago

I guess it's different if you are used to it. 40 degrees is absolutely not normal here. Even 35 is very unusual.

fellowmartian3• 28 days ago

It’s not different if you’re used to. Heat acclimation is a real thing, but it won’t magically beat physics if wet bulb temperature hits body temperature.

lwansbrough4• 29 days ago

Europeans don’t get scolded enough for their resistance to air conditioning. In terms of accounting for preventable deaths, Greece has 2x more heat-related deaths per capita annually than Mississippi has gun deaths.

By comparison, the worst US state for heat related deaths, Nevada - a literal desert - has >10x fewer deaths per capita than Greece.

PaulKeeble2• 29 days ago

I completely agree. Historically AC has not been necessary for the one to two days a year it was needed, but that world is gone now and the situation has changed and the widespread adoption of AC is now necessary.

Its going to be a huge challenge because the buildings are not designed with that in mind, many buildings are hundreds of years old making these sorts of renovations notoriously difficult and expensive, but it has to start because climate change is only going to get worse and worse.

jatora• 29 days ago

So you are saying temperature has risen enough to warrant an AC now? Due to climate change? I thought climate change was on aggregate ~1C difference but my data is a decade old the last time i looked into it

ericd10• 29 days ago

Is it that hard to drill an 8cm hole to run some refrigerant pipes through the wall?

FacelessJim• 29 days ago

Americans don’t get scolded enough for their abuse of AC. In terms of accounting for preventable waste of energy, US guzzles more electricity on cooling than most countries do on everything else.

Klonoar• 29 days ago

Yes, but we’re at least not dying of sweat.

We do a lot of things wrong but AC isn’t one of them.

(Unless you’re in the PNW where they never needed it before recently, and somehow continue to build units without it)

pfdietz• 29 days ago

"Abuse" -- what a BS term. It's used just as desired; how can that be "abuse"? Because we do what we want rather than what you want us to want?

boc2• 29 days ago

Are you going to also scold Americans for using heat in the winter?

Our continent has more extreme weather than Europe... we've adapted accordingly because we value human lives. Have you?

mcdonje• 29 days ago

We deserve to be scolded for a lot of things, but not that.

bob001• 29 days ago

Interesting, so that's the price you put on a life? And people say Americans are heartless capitalists.

atom058• 28 days ago

As a support for this comment: doing some estimations, the of average kWh household use in the US is about 10,500 kWh, with about 19% being used for Air Conditioning. The energy mix in the US is quite carbon-intensive, with an average of 0.37kg/kWh. That gives a yearly figure of 740 kg per household.

If we want to reach the climate targets, we need to reduce our yearly CO2 "budget" per capita significantly. It was at about 800kg per person & year for 1.5 degrees a few years ago. As we have resigned that target already, we're at about 1500kg per year & person for the 2 degree target. (estimations of total CO2 budget until 2050, divided by #people on earth).

After 2050, that number per person should go to net zero.

So the way Air Conditioning is used is a significant problem. If the entire world would use it like it is used in the United States, we would get into a runaway situation. And we kind of are heading towards it.

anthk4• 29 days ago

Some buildings in Southern Europe have thick as hell walls which isolate from both heat and cold (the North can be really chilly near the Atlantic, and freezing away from the Mediterranean).

coryrc• 29 days ago

That's a misconception. They are poor insulators, but they moderate temperature well. If the temperature outside is cold but sunny, the walls absorb heat from the sun during the day and retain it during the night. However, when you require heat input (cloudy days, average temperature less than desired interior temperature), the stone conducts it very well to the outside and you need much more power input than even crappy US stick-built houses with R-15 insulation. It's just that Southern Europe's climate is usually so mild it doesn't seem like it's more comfortable, but this situation demonstrates its inferiority well.

gonzo412• 29 days ago

I think there's a bit of a definitional skew happening here. The data isn't that good around this stuff.

Heat as the primary factor, vs heat related deaths is significant.

Heat is a system stressor. There's plenty of people having heart attacks and dying from weight related issues that probably got pushed over the edge by a hot day in Nevada that are missed in official stats.

Ferret7446• 29 days ago

I can't imagine this is significant unless there is a demonstrated reporting bias between the US and Europe. Otherwise I'd assume it's a wash

eisa012• 29 days ago

Agree

Especially as air conditioning are heat pumps.

Would have helped solve the large dependency on natural gas heating for free as a byproduct!

basisword5• 29 days ago

In the UK my understanding is there are large subsidies for installing heat pumps in new builds - but you lose the subsidy if you include the cooling part.

NB: a friend in construction explained this to me so I could be wrong but it would explain why even pretty fancy new apartments with heat pumps have no cooling.

g-b-r4• 29 days ago

Had the US not used air conditioning so much we probably wouldn't have this heatwave right now.

Oh but what's the problem, just add more air conditioning! :facepalm:

cm2012• 29 days ago

No, its almost negligible

stronglikedan2• 29 days ago

Had the US not used air conditioning so much we probably wouldn't have this heatwave right now.

Sure we would, since AC has nothing to do with it.

g-b-r4• 29 days ago

Five downvotes, the blindness of Americans about their lifestyle is dismaying.

Aeolun3• 29 days ago

I think it's more that air conditioning is (currently) prohibitively expensive. The few people I know that have it spent several thousands of euros on their installations. That's not something most people have lying around.

You'd think the government could subsidize aircon like they did solar for years, and both of those things combined would translate to very pleasant summers spent in energy neutral air conditioned homes.

mc323• 29 days ago

You don't need to get central A/C or mini splits. You can use an efficient Window unit (not those single ducted portable units that are just barely better than nothing. if portable do dual ducted for efficiency) Those window units are available at Walmart in the US for a couple hundred apiece. Presumably hypermarts like Carrefour would carry them or some places that serve home improvement.

stevage• 29 days ago

It's strange what people think is expensive. Double glazing is very expensive but no one in Europe would go without it. Aircon is not expensive within the context of a house's construction costs.

d3Xt3r• 29 days ago

You don't even need an expensive AC. If you can't afford one, you can just get an evaporative cooler[1] for $100 or lesser[2]. Possibly even cheaper if you don't mind buying a second-hand unit.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Evaporative_cooler

[2] https://www.amazon.com/s?k=Evaporative+cooler

TulliusCicero2• 29 days ago

A basic window AC unit costs a few hundred bucks.

trollbridge• 29 days ago

I recently bought a window unit AC for $10 at a yard sale.

mylifeandtimes• 29 days ago

Air conditioning only works for things inside of buildings. Not so good for the plants and animals our lives depend on.

And it raises the heat outside of buildings. Not so good for people who have to be outside, think first responders etc.

"just turn on the AC and keep burning the world down" isn't really the answer.

lazide5• 29 days ago

Weirdest argument to keep letting 100k grandmas die from heat every summer I’ve ever heard.

xoa• 29 days ago

And it raises the heat outside of buildings.

No it doesn't. Seriously, where does this meme even come from? It should be pretty obvious just from a solar insolation map that AC is just noise vs the sun. The energy usage is tiny vs vehicles or non-heat pump heating and only electric. What changes temperature overall is the balance of thermal retention by the atmosphere vs radiation into space, hence why net increases in GHG are so dangerous. And at the ground level similarly how heat is dumped to atmosphere. Greenery, whites, shade etc is good, asphalt, mass standard glass is bad (hence many cities being heat islands). Old, leaky units sure, we absolutely should work to reduce that. But it's astonishing how people claim AC makes the outdoors hotter so consistently.

AstroNutt2• 29 days ago

It's just a heat transfer. Refrigerant inside the evaporator picks up heat and transfers it to the condensing unit outside.

They don't create heat. It was there in the first place, just a different location.

jdkoeck7• 29 days ago

That kind of thinking kills more people each year in Europe than guns do in the USA. Let that sink in.

ericd10• 29 days ago

"just turn on the AC and keep burning the world down" isn't really the answer.

This is an outdated attitude. PV solar panel output correlates really well with air conditioning demand, no need for storage. Overcool your thick-walled masonry buildings during the day as a form of energy storage.

bandrami• 29 days ago

I have a proposal to place a small, intelligent demon in every windowsill in the UK...

userbinator• 29 days ago

"just turn on the AC and keep burning the world down" isn't really the answer

It is, because we're not going to be here forever, so might as well make the best of it. Trying to stop entropy by making everyone's lives worse is ultimately futile, but a certain group of activists have certainly been trying...

Grimblewald• 29 days ago

Aicon is reasonable for areas where it's required, but "solving" things in areas where for millenia it wasnt required simply removes the pressure to act. This would be the opposite of what's required right now, which is decisive and heavy action on something we've been inactive on for way too long.

nradov• 29 days ago

Nothing that European countries can do will remove the need for more air conditioning.

skybrian• 29 days ago

Letting people suffer to get political advantage isn't right, even if it's for a good cause.

alexhans3• 29 days ago

Living in London and Dublin, what I've observed is that we get the following contradictory statements:

- "We don't need AC, It's only hot a few times during the year." - "Oh what a terrible heat, global warming is getting worse every year."

Pair to that the fact that in many places windows don't open all the way due to bureocratic regulations and many interior designs are very questionable in terms of air flow and you get some unpleasant scenarios.

Gigachad• 29 days ago

For the wind out ones with the chain at the bottom, you can open up the box and remove the limiter that stops it opening all the way. They make the same opener for ground level and highrises with just a limiter keeping it mostly closed when installed high up.

thayne10• 29 days ago

It seems like a bidirectional heat pump would be a good solution, since the same device can be used to heat the building when it's cold. And a lot of europe (including the mentioned UK and Greece) don't often get cold enough that a heat pump is inefficient.

ffsm82• 29 days ago

Northern Europe will actually get colder with global warming... Well, only on average, the heat waves in the summer will stay.

But it's always funny how many people don't really realize how soon the AMOC will likely collapse (probably within the next 30 years - definitely within the next 70 years) and just unlivable most houses will consequently become, as what we currently consider an extreme winter would consequently become a mild one... The infrastructure just hasn't been built for -20°C

manmal• 29 days ago

TIL there will be 35 degrees Celsius in London today. I thought that basically never happens. I remember people telling me a few years ago that they are lucky to ever get 30 degrees.

vanviegen3• 29 days ago

Well yeah, it takes time to adjust to new circumstances. Especially since weather events don't come with any documentation saying things like "this will happen every two years now".

dylanz• 29 days ago

I live in Las Vegas and one year at the start of summer my AC went out. It took a week to order the part needed and make the fix. I lived out of casinos for that week (using HotelTonight to get a different place each night) and it was pretty fun. I gained 10lbs. That said, AC's are a necessity out here.

barbazoo2• 29 days ago

I'd probably invest in a secondary AC and a generator/battery to power it. That heat is brutal.

oceanplexian• 29 days ago

I live a few hours outside Las Vegas and it's a lot more survivable than you would think given primitive technology and some knowledge.

I have one of those portable evaporative coolers and they don't need much power (50-100W). I have one and measured ~110F input and 78F on the output side using nothing more than water and a fan, pretty remarkable. The trick is staying out of direct sunlight, and the body can cool itself well with the same mechanism. Sweating is extremely effective due to the low humidity.

JadeNB• 29 days ago

I don't mean to pick on an irrelevant detail, but I genuinely don't know how to parse ">10x fewer deaths per capita." Does it mean "fewer than 1/10 as many deaths per capita," i.e., the ratio (heat related deaths in Nevada per capita)/(heat related deaths in Greece per capita) is less than 1/10?

barbazoo2• 29 days ago

Went to Germany during the recent heat wave and few of the public buildings and none of the private ones had AC. I found the whole endeavor much more very stressful because of the heat.

manwithopinions• 29 days ago

There are practical reasons why it isn’t widespread:

1. Energy is very expensive relative to the U.S. 2. Houses are old old and retrofitting air conditioning is very difficult 3. Houses are more than 1 story with many small rooms making portable and window mounted units unsuitable for a whole house

All modern apartment buildings in London are built with air conditioning because a central air system and district power make it cost efficient.

If you visit a hot place like Dubai or Bangkok, there are endless indoor malls with air conditioning that serve as a place to shop and a third space. Much of Europe doesn’t have that.

The U.S. specifically is also very car-centric. You walk out of your air conditioned house into your air conditioned car and drive to your air conditioned mall. Much of Europe… isn’t. People walk, you can’t avoid the heat.

Yes, certainly, there is a cultural resistance to air conditioning but adding air conditioning to homes isn’t going to stop people dying, homes are the least consequential part of heat in day to day life. Health advice in a heatwave is pretty much: don't go outside.

zarzavat5• 29 days ago

As a European I agree, at least for Western Europe.

It's not just the resistance but the price. There is tremendous price gouging in the AC industry. The real cost of a mini split system is the low hundreds of dollars but good luck finding one for that price in Europe. If it were regulated as a life critical technology and not as a luxury then it could be substantially cheaper.

sokoloff• 29 days ago

Low thousands (or very high hundreds), perhaps. It’s still one fairly heavy outdoor unit, a moderately bulky indoor unit, a pump, two radiators, insulated pipes and control wires between, a circuit (wiring and an overcurrent device) and a disconnect, and a couple hours of labor from two tradespeople.

That’s unlikely to be sustainable for an out of pocket of a low hundreds figure.

sph3• 29 days ago

[flagged]

alephnerd• 29 days ago

To hear Americans jump at the chance to comment about Europeans and their AC usage

A lot of Americans would be indifferent if it wasn't for Europeans (mostly Germans ime - Southern, Central, and Eastern Europeans are indifferent to supportive) who often try to act all superior about not using ACs or heat pumps because they supposedly "cause colds" or are somehow "unnatural" or try to make it a moral action despite a large portion of Americans using GreenTech to subsidize AC spend.

TBH, a lot of distaste Americans have for "Europeans" is basically a distaste for DACH residents weird sense of superiority (especially racial - you guys don't realize it but you tend to treat Black, Asian, and Hispanic Americans negatively until we wave our passport and Amex Gold/Plat). Most other Europeans are much more pleasant to be around with.

CaptWorld• 29 days ago

Not beating the allegations of Europoor mentality. I'm not from USA

ActorNightly2• 29 days ago

us simply cannot have AC

Im really curious how this works. Do standalone units not exist?

tgsovlerkhgsel4• 29 days ago

"Simply cannot have AC" is a problem we did to ourselves, or rather, the "its not so bad just suffer a bit" people are doing to the rest of the population.

What are the reasons "most of us simply cannot have AC"? Either laws/regulations banning it or making it prohibitive, or living in rentals without proper protection.

There is no reason why heat protection couldn't be mandated for rental units just like heating is required in winter. Or why tenants couldn't have a right to install AC at their own expense.

Meanwhile, because permanent AC units are de facto impossible, the portable Mideas sell out as soon as the heat wave hits, and we're forced to run air conditioners with literally open windows just so we can run the hose through.

(You should get one for next year, by the way. You probably missed the opportunity for this year unless you want to pay a scalper 2-3x the normal price, but they can be installed in essentially any window or balcony, are reasonably quiet, much better than the 'air hose out the window' monoblock units, and they fucking work)

lwansbrough4• 29 days ago

I realize you're aiming at Americans in general, but I'm Canadian. Most developed countries outside of Europe have AC readily available these days. The governance is a reflection of the people. Same can be said about the Americans.

europoorean2• 29 days ago

Heat affects the old disproportionately. Europeans have years of extra life expectancy (look at the Mediterranean countries, affected by the heat). It is not unexpected that more, older Europeans die during a heatwave. The Americans that would have died during a heatwave are already dead due to other causes.

The AC debate is not an honest one (or just an ignorant take). I really hope Americans can.fix their healthcare system.

crote7• 29 days ago

Well yeah, because it requires re-engineering the entire built environment!

Heat waves only became a serious problem in Europe in the last decade. The vast majority of buildings predate the need for air conditioning by several decades - and in plenty of cases by several centuries. The buildings are designed around being livable in a pre-climate-catastrophe climate without needing air conditioning - which is perfectly achievable if you aren't stupid enough to build a city in the middle of a desert.

Adapting all those buildings and streets will take time. Blindly putting AC everywhere and forcing everyone to drive from building to building in an ACed car isn't going to work, that kind of wasteful behavior is how we got into this situation in the first place. You need to redesign the heat management, and you need to start with things like mandating shades to prevent heat from entering buildings in the first place, and planting trees to avoid the heat island effect.

AC will indeed be needed to deal with the final heat peak when outside night temperature is in excess of 30C, but it isn't the one-size-fits-all solution for every heat-related problem it might seem at first glance. If your AC needs to run for more than a few days per year, you've seriously screwed up.

ianm218• 29 days ago

This is completely ridiculous you just need to let people use AC properly and it will solve most of the problem with people dying. That doesn’t mean you need to go from place to place in AC or never be out of AC, but every person in southern Europe should have an AC unit in their bedroom and deaths will go down substantially.

Another thing that would help is if Europe stopped being so averse to new construction so that people could build new buildings with central AC that matches the current reality of its climate and demographics, rather than the climate and demographics of last millennium.

quotemstr2• 29 days ago

Blindly putting AC everywhere

... actually works just fine. How do you think mass AC adoption in the US happened? Window units work just fine. Fancy splits and central ducting can come later.

Don't let perfect be the enemy of the good.

zarzavat5• 29 days ago

An AC unit essentially requires just a small hole in the wall and a bracket to hold the compressor unit. Europeans have walls don't they? I'm European and I have a wall that could host an AC unit. The barrier is regulatory not engineering.

CalRobert11• 29 days ago

Even now planners are forcing people to build horrible ovens that make no accounting for heat. The planners in Ireland laughed when I talked about over heating in our self built house due to lack of eaves.

tgsovlerkhgsel4• 29 days ago

How do you suggest to keep buildings livable during the decades that it takes to (as you suggest) essentially rebuild cities?

PeterStuer5• 29 days ago

We have had heatwaves in Europe forever. The thing is people were used to adapting to them with shades and night/morning ventilation, and shifting their activities out of the hottest part of the day.

This somehow seems to be beyond today's population and society. How dare this weather impact my schedule!

ianmarcinkowski3• 28 days ago

Such a scold-y attitude. Window air conditioning units work in any fully-openable window. They are $150CAD. Portable air conditioners work in almost every configuration of openable window. They are $250-500CAD.

It does take time, but it MOSTLY takes a shipment of small units to local retailers for normal lower-and-middle-class people to buy for the price of a month's worth of beer. Canada's economy is much smaller than the EU, yet somehow you can walk into a Walmart, Home Depot or Canadian Tire and buy a $150 air conditioner to install in your own home with 15-20 minutes of effort.

Canadian houses and older buildings are built to withstand winter and somehow we manage. We have a lot of 100 year old buildings (my house for example). Office buildings and hospitals are slightly more complicated, but I think Europe invented windows a long time ago

marysol52• 28 days ago

My "European" house pre-dates the invention of the AC

inigyou3• 29 days ago

I wonder what the global temperature rise would be right now if everyone in Europe had air conditioning since it was invented. Probably about half a degree hotter - so about two degrees total warming?

tonfa• 29 days ago

Depends on the countries, France has had low carbon electricity for a very long time.

That said F-gases would have been an issue, EU only recently banned them.

Also most of Europe truly didn't need AC for a long time, growing up temperature above 30C was exceptional and I didn't even know the term tropical night (nighttime temperature above 20C).

(Now that places are getting 10+ consecutive days above 30 with peaks close or above 40)

jerlam2• 29 days ago

The US is generally much closer to the equator and warmer than Europe, hence air conditioning has been a requirement for much longer.

https://vividmaps.com/comparing-latitude-of-europe-and-ameri...

US states like Texas and Florida have no latitude equivalent in Europe. Los Angeles is farther south than all of Spain.

At the same time, the UK, much of Germany, and Poland are farther north than any state in the US lower 48.

ajmurmann10• 29 days ago

And yet, even here in Oregon many of my coworkers only got window AC units during a heat wave a few years ago. But let's not break the narrative of all US vs all of Europe.

croes• 29 days ago

Do you think there is a correlation between air conditioning and climate change denial?

tmnvix• 29 days ago

I wouldn't be surprised.

There are people who think it's a good idea to aircondition service station forecourts. I find the irony of the situation tragically absurd. There's a little of that in the comment you are responding to.

wahnfrieden• 29 days ago

Are you echoing rants from Levels? He has a point but the death rate stats he posts comparing US to EU are bogus, incomparable measures. These places record heat related deaths differently which accounts for a large part of the difference. If you have better sources on this than he does, please share.

ajmurmann10• 29 days ago

I thought the Europe number was even just excess deaths and not recorded hear deaths at all whereas the US number was only officially recorded heat deaths.

vixen99• 29 days ago

In the UK and other European locations maybe this is related to some of the highest electricity costs in the world.

seydor2• 29 days ago

Greece is full of air conditioners

Dont take pieter levels so seriously

ed_balls• 29 days ago

resistance to air conditioning

Where is this meme coming from? I'm in Poland atm. Half of my neighbours have aircon. I dont just because I'm on the ground floor and the max temp is 25.5C Every new apartament building is build with holes ready for AC.

fellowmartian3• 28 days ago

This meme is 100% true in western Europe.

CalRobert11• 29 days ago

The most bizarre thing to me is that here in the Netherlands I can get a subsidy for a heat pump if it heats radiators, but not if it’s a multi split air to air heat pump. Because the latter also happens to be an air conditioner. It makes no sense.

And then the same people who moralise air conditioning will burn tons of gas all winter for heat.

Oh, and sensible design choices like eaves that block light from windows in summer are blocked by planners in many cases, bizarrely. The houses are brick ovens.

Anyway I got AC installed here in Utrecht last week, really enjoying it

apexalpha• 29 days ago

Look at the SPOT prices tonight and you'll understand the resistance to subsidizing airconditioning.

eecc• 29 days ago

Well, until recently Greece was struck by a savage “restructuring” and “reforms” package that left people without pensions or even chemotherapy when in need. I don’t think aircon is the priority for many of them

rippeltippel2• 29 days ago

US citizens don’t get scolded enough for having elected (twice!) a president who denies human-induced global warming.

AC would not be so much needed if we started reducing pollution and greenhouse gases.

omnimus7• 29 days ago

There is no climate change in America. They have AC.

traxler• 29 days ago

Genuine question: Do we have data that collaborates the theory that AC's prevent heat deaths and it's not due to confounding variables like the air in Nevada being dryer (dry heat is more bearable than wet heat) or the people in Nevada having year round higher temperatures and just being more acclimated?

Has been on my "to research" list for a while. I agree with you that Europeans should stop being so stingy with AC (speaking as an European who still hasn't an AC, but not much longer), but I do wonder how much they actually do to prevent heat deaths.

Because, how many heat deaths happen at home where people would potentially have AC? As far as I can tell (pre researching it) most, if not all, heat deaths I am aware of, happen outside. So the question would be: What is the effect of having a cool 22C home in regards to suffering heat deaths outside. Does it make it better, because your body can cool down? Does it maybe make it worse, because you step into a harsh difference when leaving it? (The last one is probably an easy no, since plenty of countries with high AC rate don't seem to have that issue).

(Or just general damages from heat, not just heat deaths)

omnimus7• 29 days ago

Exactly. The recent heat deaths I saw were people getting heart attack from jumping into cold river and others mostly from dehydration. All are from outside.

You will not die from sleeping in 30c. What europe will have to get used to is slow down over the mid day when the heat is worst.

oatmeal1• 29 days ago

Heat related deaths predominantly kill the elderly. That may save lives overall because of their voting behavior leading to more deaths.

Vasbarlog• 29 days ago

Do you have any source for that? Most people in Greece have ACs on their homes and virtually all public buildings and private businesses do as well.

https://www.euronews.com/my-europe/2025/07/15/these-eu-count...

nikanj3• 29 days ago

”Hey so all your animals and crops are dying, but if you just install AC and stop going outdoors this whole thing can be ignored”

sideway2• 29 days ago

Nowadays, it's usually not the lack of aircons that is a problem in greek households. Compared to local wages, energy prices have risen so much that lots of people cannot afford to keep their aircons on.

asdff18• 29 days ago

How are public spaces in greece? Any large "free" sources of AC? Homeless in the US sometimes use this method to avoid severe heat exposure, hanging out in say a mall, public library, airport bag claim, staying underground in the subway system, or riding an air conditioned bus around.

lmc• 29 days ago

We don't like it either, but thanks for being a sanctimonious prick about it.

lwansbrough4• 29 days ago

Just buy an AC unit.

Balinares• 29 days ago

Burning even more energy in response to the consequence of burning too much energy is seen by some as counterproductive.

Do also note that AIUI in the US only deaths that were officially ruled from heat are counted as such by the CDC (source: https://www.nytimes.com/2024/08/23/us/extreme-heat-deaths.ht...), whereas the EU usually performs estimates based on overall deaths in excess of the expected baseline. So it's not apples to apples.

I do agree that avoidable deaths should be avoided, though, so I'm with you on that.

baxtr• 29 days ago

I think it’s a bit ignorant to lump Europe into one.

Europe has roughly 750 mn people. When you’re in the southern parts many homes actually do have AC.

We’re not stupid. Many new buildings have ACs. The northern parts just haven’t adapted to the increased temperatures at scale yet.

toasty2282• 29 days ago

The irony is that if we never invented AC climate change wouldn't be as bad since half of the US, middle east and Asia would still be mostly unusable

8fingerlouie• 29 days ago

It's not resistance to air conditioning as much as there isn't really a need for it for most of the year.

Some of that has to do with engineering and age / history. Many older building in the southern part of Europe are built to cope with heat, at least "normal heat", and have done so very well for centuries. In places like Spain and Italy, society has adapted around the worst heat by means of Siestas.

In Northern Europe, there are maybe (during "normal summers) 7-14 days in a year with heat waves, and long dark winters with freezing temperatures so large windows are not uncommon. Houses there are built to trap heat (and cold) with insulation, with current building codes mandating around 350mm (~13.5") of insulation.

I have and old (1970s) house with 100mm insulation in the walls and 200mm insulation in the roof, and that house heats up in the sun. I also have a 2014 "modern" house built to regulations at the time, so around 300mm insulation, and despite a full day of sun, 30C, that house doesn't heat up nearly as much. Insulation by itself obviously doesn't protect you from prolonged high ambient temperatures, and I do have a portable AC for those situations. I think I've used it for 10 days in total over 2 years. Most days, simply opening windows and doors are enough to cool down the house. Having roof windows creates a "chimney effect" letting the hot air out on top, drawing relatively cooler air from closer to the ground.

I also have an older summerhouse (1984), constructed with wood inside and outside, 75mm insulation in walls, 100mm in the roof, and that has a proper mini split aircon unit, Panasonic NZ25VKE, and in the 5 years I've had it installed, it has used 4.75 kWh on cooling. For comparison it uses around 1400 kWh yearly on heating. The wooden construction doesn't trap heat like bricks/concrete does, so even on very hot days simply opening a couple of windows/doors is generally enough to get the heat out, as well as putting the heat pump on "only fans" mode.

And finally, a lot of newer buildings (2010 and onwards) does have climate control, both heating and cooling, but Europe is an old continent, and the buildings are old as well. It's not uncommon to see 200 year old buildings still in use today. 100 year old buildings are quite common. The church in the town I live in was built between 1250 and 1595. It has of course been updated with electricity and other modern commodities, but no air conditioning. The meter thick granite walls keeps it nice and cool.

Ironically, the US' insistence on running on electricity powered by coal, oil and gas is contributing to global warming making the problem worse, emitting about 2-3x as much CO2 as Europe on electricity (https://app.electricitymaps.com/map/live/fifteen_minutes), making the need for AC greater. If anything, the Americans don't get scolded enough for their resistance to renewable energy sources.

europoorean2• 29 days ago

A quick google shows Greece has a life expectancy ~83 years, while Nevada's is at ~76. A 7 year difference.

Heat death affects disproportionately those of old age. Everyone dying at 76 for other reasons is not going to die at 83 due to heat.

While it is true that Europeans don't have air conditioning at home for the most part, it's also true that those old Europeans that die during heatwaves would already have been dead in the USA. I am 99% confident that 98% of the difference in heat deaths can be explained in this way at the 95% CL (!)

Gun related deaths are simply a way for Americans to cope, I suppose! A bit of ragebait. I honestly hope you fix your health system.

secretsatan2• 29 days ago

Excuse me, it used to be livable here without aircon, you lot need to stop driving suv and reviving coal

Imbryk• 29 days ago

Nearly all of Nevada's heat deaths are recorded in Las Vegas, so are you saying Americans cannot built proper system in a single town?

What a pathetic

cuvert• 29 days ago

But wouldn't be better if people would invest in better home insulation and ventilation? It would help in the winter also. I say this because since the early 90s, my father installed air conditioning in our home, but in 2020 the building was redone (the building is from 1986), and whenever I return home in the summer, I don't need air conditioning. Just lower the roller blinds and open the windows after the sun passed.

kiriberty• 29 days ago

So calling for the conference and cancelling it raises awareness of extreme heat? Well played

mikelitoris• 29 days ago

I love a good self reference

stronglikedan2• 29 days ago

me!

indigodaddy• 29 days ago

Apparently, NOT a theonion article

westurner• 29 days ago

Recently - from YT recommended - I learned about Glauber's salt (sodium sulfate).

Glauber's salt is a PCM phase-change material that melts at 90F / 32.4C and starts absorbing thermal energy.

regnull• 29 days ago

It's either terrible planning or the most persuasive presentation they’ve ever given.

astrobe_• 29 days ago

The title reads "too little, too late" to me.

kochikame• 29 days ago

Unlike all of the things referenced in the Alanis Morrisette song, this is actually ironic

ndsipa_pomu• 29 days ago

However, by calling her song "Ironic" when it doesn't discuss actual irony is itself ironic.

deadbabe2• 29 days ago

This may be overly simplistic, but if we shut down the AMOC would that help Europe balance out the temps and solve its heat problems?

inigyou3• 29 days ago

It'll be -20 Celsius in winter and +40 Celsius in summer and everyone will die in both seasons so yes, no more heat problem when everyone dies.

deadbabe2• 29 days ago

-20 Celsius is not that bad in Winter.

PeterStuer5• 29 days ago

The dowside of hosting your conference in exquisitly beautifull old locations is that they have no airco.

While well managed traditional cooling management can keep them pleasant enough, this would require light programme adaptations, basically shifting to starting early morning - noon, covering the glass dome, and night ventilation, but that seems to be more insurmountable than cancelling.

Apparently the LSE does have airco spaces, but these aren't as inspirationally nice it seems.

zombot• 29 days ago

There is a certain irony to a conference about extreme heat getting canceled because of extreme heat.

tim333• 29 days ago

Sitting here in central London on the day of the conference it seems a bit wimpy to me. Max today is 34C which is hot but not life threatening. Some trains may be delayed but they do that all the time. I assume the LSE library is aircon. Most such buildings are these days.

You'd think a bit of heat would be a bonus given the topic.

ianmarcinkowski3• 28 days ago

I find it unintentionally hilarious to see our weather reporting channel (Weather Network in Canada) constantly ringing the "extreme weather warning" bell! They manage to have an alert or warning at least every week. In the winter, -10C is extreme cold; in the summer 34C is extreme heat. The words have lost meaning to me along with old advertising terms like "premium."

34C is hot and it's legitimately difficult to work indoors without AC, but there are probably people in London working outdoors in the sun.

Air conditioners can be had for as little as $150CAD.

jfil• 28 days ago

Reminds me of a forecasting book I read. The author highlighted that services such as The Weather Network are entertainment/ad-media services first and foremost, and they'll serve you inaccurate forecasts to make sure you return. This isn't the same goal as something like the gov. of Canada forecasts.

Now, despite that, for some reason the Weather Network forecasts do tend to reflect reality than the Govt. ones. Maybe their hype is working on me.

mancerayder• 28 days ago

It's extreme heat because there's a strong moral opposition and infrastructure immaturity when it comes to air conditioning. Look no further than France where there's even air conditioning in trains but they keep it borderline off, and where nursing homes and hospitals don't have A/C.

It's a mix of cheapness, climate change as things got hotter, and the unfortunate influence of Green types who believe in suffering.

ianmarcinkowski3• 28 days ago

So sad, such a lack of fortitude.

Canadian here. Window air conditioning units work in any fully-openable window. They are $150CAD. Portable air conditioners work in almost every configuration of openable window. They are $250-500CAD.

It takes time to build AC units and ship them to Europe. However, if you delivered a shipment of small units to local retailers normal lower-and-middle-class people could buy one for the price of a month's worth of beer. Canada's economy is much smaller than the EU, yet somehow you can walk into a Walmart, Home Depot or Canadian Tire and buy a $150 air conditioner to install in your own home with 15-20 minutes of effort.

The climate is warming; but also, the alarmist types who feint in "extreme heat" of 33-36C are kind of silly.

sazz• 28 days ago

yeah. lets plan the conference in one of the hottest weeks in the year and then cancel it due to hot weather.

Well ... it speaks for their competence. It's like creating a Teams meeting about classified security issues on Windows 95 systems...

simonw• 28 days ago

I didn't realize "hottest week of the year" in the UK was predictable enough that you could plan your conference schedule around it.

Is there a known week during which nobody should plan any events at all now?

nerdyadventurer• 28 days ago

Everyone is rooting for wars till we all die from environmental degregation.

Extreme Heat conference cancelled due to extreme heat warning

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