New Apple maps app under fire from users

http://www.bbc.com/news/technology-19659736

by option_greek • 14 years ago

305 276 14 years ago

Apreche• 14 years ago

Just add maps.google.com to your home screen. I was doing that even before the new iOS. It's better than the new Maps app or the old one. Bicycle directions!

Also, FYI, the previous Maps app did use Google Maps, but the app itself was written by Apple. I once was at a Google event and asked a Googler who works on Maps about it. They have been frustrated for years that they could not update that app when they added new features to Google Maps. I expect within a short time we will see an iOS Google Maps that is on par with the Android app.

holtr942• 14 years ago

The only problem with any maps app written by Google is it cannot be the default. Friend texts you an address? It will always open in Apple Maps.

TheBindingVoid• 14 years ago

That's an iOS design flaw, not Google's problem.

zyb09• 14 years ago

Also every 3rd party app using MapKit is stuck with Apple's maps. Google would need to release a GoogleMapKit iOS-Library for 3rd Party apps. iOS limitations are really showing now, it 's so disappointing to see Apple making things worse (new Maps, new AppStore), without providing proper 3rd party access to core functions and better cross-app communication. Instead of getting baked-in Facebook-Sharing with iOS 6, they should've made that an API, something every service can plug into, like Android's Sharing System. It's a shame, the hardware is so awesome, but the software is going down the drain, it desperately needs to be opened up more. For the record, the iPhone is now the only modern device I know of, that you can't access Google StreetView. No app, not through Safari, you just can't. I think it should be clear that something is wrong, when such an advanced device, can't do something as simple as that.

daleharvey• 14 years ago

And a word of warning, at least for those outside the US, you are probably still better using cyclestreets.net than googles cycle directions, They sent me down a dual carriageway last weekend (and generally got every part of a 50 miles journey wrong)

hesselink• 14 years ago

For those in the Netherlands, I can recommend the planner by 'de Fietsersbond': http://www.fietsersbond.nl/fietsrouteplanner/

prof_hobart2• 14 years ago

Don't know what country you're in, but cycling down a dual carriageway is not particulary uncommon where I live.

mgw• 14 years ago

Google is surely working on a native iOS maps app, but (when) will Apple approve it?

mbesto• 14 years ago

No joke, I would switch to Android in a hear beat if they don't. I am 100% reliant on my map app and therefore am willing to pay for anything with the best experience.

rmc3• 14 years ago

Apple aren't completly stupid. I doubt they'd delibrately hobble the iPhone by leaving this as the best maps you can get.

hopeless• 14 years ago

When will Google submit it? I suspect Google will let Apple (and us users) stew in this for a while. Just long enough so everyone feels the pain but not long enough for them to forget Google Maps

Personally, StreetView down every little single-lane road in Ireland is a big deal for me (landscape photography) whereas 3D flyovers are like the Coverflow of mapping (looks pretty but ultimately not very useful)

chmars• 14 years ago

I would be very happy about such an app although the new YouTube app made me rather pessimistic. It's for example not available on the iPad and you cannot send links to videos by mail.

spitx3• 14 years ago

This bothers me to no end. One of the major things beside the odd dimensions of the iPhone 5 screen, that prevent me from switching from Android. However the screen is clearly a bigger let-down for most Android users who are used to larger screens.

Jobs would never have allowed such an atrocity to occur. The sub-par Gmail integration is another pain point.

Roger McNamee expressed the same misgivings on Bloomberg the other day. He said Apple is starting to act like a bad monopolist.

rimantas3• 14 years ago

  > Jobs would never have allowed such an atrocity to occur

iPhone 5 is more likely to be blessed by Jobs than not. I am not sure how long Apple product pipeline is, but I seriously doubt they had iPhone 4S ready for production, but not iPhone 5 in the advanced design stage.

On the other hand I don't give a damn about "odd" dimensions. There is nothing odd in them for me.

rmc3• 14 years ago

I expect within a short time we will see an iOS Google Maps that is on par with the Android app.

I wonder if Google will do that. Surely they want people to use Android, and "better maps on Android", would be a nice selling point.

ben1040• 14 years ago

On the other hand, they are trying to monetize the Android Maps app by including paid local offers and the like. There's nothing stopping them from trying to make money from the iOS user base the same way.

nicholassmith5• 14 years ago

Google wants people to use Google, not specifically Android even if it is a handy portal into the world of Google Apps and Services.

anextio2• 14 years ago

No. Google want people using their services. They don't care if people are using Android or not - Android is simply a platform upon which they can get users to use their services. That is their only vested interest.

AnthonyMouse2• 14 years ago

>I wonder if Google will do that. Surely they want people to use Android, and "better maps on Android", would be a nice selling point.

The more difficult problem will be getting the app past Apple when it so clearly 'duplicates functionality in iOS.' My understanding is that one of the main drivers behind the change on Apple's part is that they wanted to collect user location data (and deprive Google of it), which doesn't do the job if 95% of the user base switches to the Google app straight away.

LVB2• 14 years ago

But it would also be a huge marketing win if Google Maps became the go-to mapping application despite Apple's version being a core application and one of the most trumpeted new features in iOS.

nachteilig• 14 years ago

I can't find the link just now, but Google has stated previously that they're working on one.

arrrg2• 14 years ago

maps.google.com regularly crashes Safari on my iPad. I really hope for a native app from Google – and given recent trends, that’s not unlikely. (Google has some great apps on the App Store and they seem to want to cover all bases.) It just might take some time (I’m guessing several months).

twism• 14 years ago

Why would Apple allow a native iOS maps app by Google, that competes with their core Maps app, in the AppStore?

dailyrorschach• 14 years ago

They already allow turn-by-turn navigation apps, and allow applications for GMail, Chrome (thought they don't get the full baked in system feel). For the most part the duplicated functionality requirements aren't as strict as they were from 2008-2010.

I think they'll definitely allow a Maps app from Google if they submit one. I also think that Google very likely wanted more updates and possibly more money for their map data. Apple likely viewed this as something that was always going to be painful but something they needed to just do and get behind them. I also wonder/hope/suspect that they may already be adding more data based on reports of landmarks that weren't appearing, now appearing.

This is also a nice point: http://blog.lumatic.com/post/31863865686/ive-been-using-ios-... Usage data is what improves maps, which they'll now have a lot of. Though I am surprised they haven't picked a better provider then just TomTom, perhaps that's also in the works.

stephen_g4• 14 years ago

Why wouldn't they? In the App Store there are all sorts of browsers that compete with Safari (I know that they still have to use the built in WebView, but still), mail apps (including Gmail), that compete with Mail, camera apps that compete with the Camera app, to-do lost apps that compete with Reminders, and even many existing navigation apps, etc.

There's no reason it wouldn't be allowed in if Google complies with the guidelines...

brown9-2• 14 years ago

Seems like rejecting a native Google Maps app would be an acknowledgement of Apple's inability to compete.

wpietri• 14 years ago

Because that would be better for users.

There are two basic attitudes a company can have. A) We exist to create value for our customers. B) Our customers are our property and exist for our benefit.

Basically, the company's there either to serve or to exploit. Most businesses are of the former sort. Many monopolists and oligopolists hold the later view. E.g., cable companies and cellphone carriers.

If Apple were smart and user focused about this, they would have launched their own maps in beta as an add-on. Then they would have revved it until it was just as good as Google Maps for most people. Only then would have they turned dickish and kicked Google Maps off the platform.

_delirium• 14 years ago

The article ends on a strange note, essentially a guy complaining that his Google SEO doesn't carry over to the new Apple app?

DeepDuh• 14 years ago

"Hey Joe, thanks for that article you submitted this morning. Listen, it's a bit too technical, could you add something, you know, more emotional?"

jusben13692• 14 years ago

I think that's relevant though. Essentially the article states that for end users of the mapping application it's a poorer experience and step back. Secondly, business users who have come to rely upon iPhone customers to find them via search are also upset by the changes. Of course, the first group is clearly an Apple customer and therefore Apple should be concerned. It's less clear that the second group is an Apple customer so it falls more into the "People talking negatively about our brand" problem area.

sigzero• 14 years ago

It's a one-dot-oh release. So that is the level of expectation that I am giving it.

hahainternet6• 14 years ago

It's been deployed globally on tens of millions of devices removing the existing solution.

That's the level of expectation that I'm giving it.

rimantas3• 14 years ago

In contrast with Android where Google can remove most of the apps and majority of users stuck with 2.x versions won't even know.

On the serious note, I guess this sucks most for US users. In other parts of the world transit data was not available anyway, so nobody cares.

estel• 14 years ago

Fair or not, it's a first release that's directly replacing a much more mature and complete product. Is it really unreasonable to expect a comparable feature set? Downgrading the iOS Maps application like this is a remarkably un-consumer friendly thing for Apple to do.

lessnonymous• 14 years ago

The amazing thing for me is that the Google Maps App on my original iPhone 3G was way better than this new one.

holtr942• 14 years ago

It should be given the same level of expectation as the thing it replaced. If Apple had run this maps app as an optional beta program, and not replaced the google maps app, things would have been a whole lot better. Then they could've waited for iOS 7 to make it default, just like they did with the messages beta for OS X.

denzil_correa• 14 years ago

This makes very good sense. A gradual migration rather than a shock transition would not only have saved Apple's arse but also the consumers & the overall user experience.

jusben13692• 14 years ago

Poor old Tom Tom is completely on the back foot and trying to distance itself as far as it can without throwing a super major partner under the bus.

jreposa• 14 years ago

None of us will know the complete depth of their relationship, but TomTom shouldn't be so removed from this PR. What they should have said is "Although Apple provides additional layers of functionality on top of our map data, we've reached out to Apple to help support in fixing these issues."

That sounds a lot nicer than "it's not our problem"...

outworlder• 14 years ago

>Users also reported missing local places, such as schools, or strange locations. Another screenshot showed a furniture museum that was apparently located in a river.

From a twitter account called @fake_iOS6maps ? Seriously, BBC?

hahainternet6• 14 years ago

The irony here is that you didn't bother to check what the fake_ bit means. It's like fakesteve, the images aren't faked, the account is not an official iOS6 account.

niggler• 14 years ago

Why wouldn't the person use "SteveSays"/"iOS6Maps_Gaffes" or something along those lines?

Karunamon5• 14 years ago

Not sure what the hell they were expecting to happen. You don't take an existing, working, mature, and proven solution and then replace it en masse with something unproven and untested.

This particular bit of sour grapes over Google is going to bite them in the arse.

cletus• 14 years ago

Since the passing of Steve Jobs there has understandably been a lot of speculation about what will happen to Apple given Steve's laser-like focus on user experience above almost all else. Some self-proclaimed "power users" did of course rail against the Apple ecosystem but like most things Apple does (did?) it was right most of the time for most users.

I've been an avid iPhone user since the iPhone 4 and have bought every iPad so far. iOS 6 may mark a turning point to me such that the 4S that I have now may well be my last iPhone. My phone for me is probably beyond anything else a way of getting places (ie maps). Even more than phone calls, SMS or the Internet.

I sympathize with the position that Apple wants to control the entire experience but I really am dumbfounded that they've sacrificed user experience to do it. So much so that I don't think I want to update to iOS 6.

When compared to Android, the one remaining pillar for the iPhone for me is battery life. The 4S simply trumps any Android I've used or witnessed to date. I typically have to charge my phone only every 2-3 days. The Droid I have (which admittedly was a terrible phone) is lucky to last a day. The Galaxy S3 is better but still...

I look forward to the next Android phone running out-of-the-box 4.1 (or whatever the latest release is at that point).

reubensutton• 14 years ago

I'm always confused about people who complain about battery life not lasting over a day. How often are you not near a source of electricity at least once a day?

That being said, my Nexus S tends to run out after about 10 hours now, which is intensely frustrating.

TillE• 14 years ago

> How often are you not near a source of electricity at least once a day?

It's a major issue when traveling, which is when you want your fancy smartphone mapping features the most. If you want to be able to use it later in the day, you have to be careful not to use it too much earlier.

I've been pleasantly surprised with the Galaxy Nexus battery life though, which usually lasts me just about two days.

benologist• 14 years ago

I'm always confused about people who complain about battery life not lasting over 10 hours.

lambda• 14 years ago

For one, when travelling, you can sometimes go for a while without having a chance to plug in and charge (due to not being on one place for long, bags being inaccessible, not having outlets on a long plane ride, etc).

But even when not travelling, I will sometimes forget to plug my phone in one night. It's really frustrating when it dies the next morning before I have a chance to recharge it again.

crististm• 14 years ago

what's the point on having a battery if you have to charge it often? Since obviously there are solutions that drain less battery, "charge it more often" is an inferior experience.

rm999• 14 years ago

The unfortunate irony is I need my phone the most when I'm away from my computer for long periods of time, and these are the only times I run out of battery. I run out of battery maybe three times a year, but when it happens it's often a pain.

arrrg2• 14 years ago

Apple can’t unilaterally decide to use Google Maps or not. You do not know the conditions Google set. My guess is that Apple was backed into a corner and Google wouldn’t give them vector maps or turn-by-turn navigation.

Building a good maps service is miles outside of Apple’s core competency, so this is all very sad – but at the same time no surprise at all.

(Mind you, all this at best explains the bad maps experience, it does not excuse it.)

checker4• 14 years ago

Why didn't they just buy TomTom with their war chest instead of building in-house? It seems to me like they would be familiar with navigation software.

Ultimately I imagine that Apple will get Maps solid eventually, but not delivering a solid product initially will cost them.

Daishiman• 14 years ago

With the cash they have at hand I'm surprised they simply didn't buy out an existing maps provider.

ryeguy_24• 14 years ago

This is a valid argument and one that I originally did not see. It very well could be the same case as the YouTube app (Core App vs Third-Party App) where Google might have wanted more flexibility in updating its apps (not tied to the OS).

jtreminio• 14 years ago

I don't think it's sad at all. Would you give your main competitor all the features your native users use, after that competitor has been cut-throat with your ecosystem?

brudgers6• 14 years ago

It's a product of Apple's inability to form stable B2B relationships - "adult relationships" if one enjoys snarky analogies. Contrast this to the way in which Microsoft has recently addressed Google's strength in Maps. They found someone with mutual interests. http://searchengineland.com/microsoft-and-nokia-present-unif...

Google and Apple have been unfriending each other since Schmidt resigned from Apple's board three years ago. A jilted Apple is again "looking and feeling" for reasons to drag the ex who cheated on them into court. Heck, in Samsung, they are even treating one of their current "friends with benefits" like an ex.

TomTom's response, "We are a paid escort service, you can find us in the phonebook."

dundun• 14 years ago

Apple's decision to go with an in-house map app has been a long time coming. They've been acquiring mapping companies for the last few years and have been (attempting) to build that core competency so that these kind of issues were minimal when they made the switch.

As far as Google giving them turn-by-turn capabilities-- that's really the special sauce that sets Android apart. It was probably available, but at a price that Apple didn't want to pay. Plus, Apple probably didn't like that they weren't getting their 30% on the revenue from local search in the Google Maps app.

So, in the long run this will work out for Apple. Sure, the users will be affected in the short term and it may never actually be as good as Google Maps.... but hey look, shiny pictures of 3D buildings

GBKS4• 14 years ago

I'd also recommend to base your decision on the overall service you get over the 1-2 years you'll own your phone. I've had an Android phone the past 2 years and am completely disillusioned with Android/Google/HTC. Everything is great for a few months, then issue after issue kept piling up.

For example, the first system update my phone had problems installing. It took two weeks of Googling and Verizon store visits to figure out that I had to do a factory reset for it to work. The second system update has been lingering on my phone for about 3 months. The install process simply never finishes, no matter what I do.

Second, apps simply stop working one by one. Flipboard doesn't manage to load images anymore. Wunderlist can't sync anymore. Installing Instagram breaks the built-in camera and gallery completely. Lots of random errors in other apps. The weather app stopped automatically refreshing. The alarm app doesn't go off anymore. Not to mention the application cache limitation to 150MB. So even though I have 500MB available storage, I can't install more apps, since they don't have room for temporary files. If that's full, apps simply stop working (only fix I found was a 1-hour phone-rooting process).

The touchscreen sometimes stops responding (off/on fixes that). Tapping a bookmark on my home screen loads the browser, but not the actual link. The phone randomly restarts at times. The unlock screen started misbehaving recently. And on and on.

In comparison, my 4 year old iPod Touch is more reliable and more fun to use than my 2-year old HTC. My 3.5 year old MacBook just upgraded to iOS6 and everything runs smooth as butter.

So my experience is that Android phones get worse over time, and Apple devices get better over time (or at least stay the same). Of course, your experience may differ, and maybe Android is more mature by now. But I'd highly recommend not to base a switch on a few features, but to take the overall service you will receive over two years into consideration.

kuida0r3• 14 years ago

Wow, can I ask which Android version/HTC phone you're using? I kept my HTC Incredible from 3~4 years ago rooted for development and sometimes as a music player in the gym. All of my apps still function. That said, I don't use it everyday nor as a phone so the issues may just be non-obvious to me.

bryanlarsen4• 14 years ago

I know it's been said before, but there's a one word answer: Nexus. The current Nexus is getting long in the tooth, but I'd still recommend a Galaxy Nexus over an S3 or 1X. The fact that it's half the price off contract makes this easier.

lawdawg• 14 years ago

I hear stories like this all the time, but every single person I know that has an Android has very few, if any, problems (most own Samsungs or Nexus phones though). I mean to be honest, I hear a lot more complaining from the iPhone crowd, but that might be more because they expect more and things like the battery dying after 10 hours of moderate use really piss them off.

Karunamon5• 14 years ago

Err... your MacBook upgraded to iOS6?

ak217• 14 years ago

FWIW, I've been using the Galaxy Nexus and it's a rock solid combination of Samsung hardware and unadulterated Google software, above and beyond the iPhones I've used in all parts of the experience except battery life (it lasts as long as an iPhone 3GS did for me). This is in contract with the Sprint-modified Galaxy SII that I also got to use, where the software was messed with for no good reason, and the capacitive buttons would sometimes become unresponsive.

kamechan• 14 years ago

on battery life, i get anywhere from 1.5 to 3 days on my HSPA+ nexus (from play store) the way i use it. definitely have never sweated getting through a day.

* fair amount of web browsing

* little or no media or games

* heavy twitter, fairly heavy facebook

* 50+ SMS/gvoice messages per day

* 50+ emails a day

* ~1-2 hours of phone

* ~30 mins of tethering a day

coming from an iphone myself i was worried about battery life on the nexus, but it actually does better than my iphone did.

paul9290• 14 years ago

For me iOS6 & iPhone5 = WTH Apple?

Maps suck for me because.... - google map links found in google search and almost every website are useless. I click these links weekly and now with ios6 when clicked these once very useful links take me no where useful( I know it's a google map link but...)

- plugging ios6 into my car via USB renders turn by turn useless...UNLESS I am listening to something on iTunes or spotify then I will hear Siri speak turn by turn?

iPhone 5... - Millions and millions of iPhone owners now have to buy more power cords after ten years of using the same one? Why not go with wireless charging?

speleding• 14 years ago

Go to maps.google.com, tap "Install on home screen". Really, I agree that this is not ideal for the average user but you, as an HN visitor, should not have much trouble performing such a minor step to get your functionality back (and Google's web app even has a few new features compared to the old native App)

There are good reasons for Apple to have their own mapping that will eventually lead to a better experience. Think about how many Apple apps already need some kind of geolocation (Find iPhone, Find Friends, location based reminders), there are lots of potential synergies there. It just takes a while to catch up on the half a decade of experience Google has had in doing it.

alan57• 14 years ago

Well said. Apple should have their own maps app. Bummer it's as bad as it is right now, so find a workaround and trust it will get better in time...

breakall• 14 years ago

One thing that's still missing (or at least well buried) in the mobile version of maps.google.com on iOS is Street View.

EwanToo• 14 years ago

If battery life if your thing, look at the Droid Razr Maxx HD.

Daft name, but high resolution screen, jelly bean (android 4.1) pre-installed, and fantastic battery life compared to most smart phones

http://www.engadget.com/2012/09/05/motorola-droid-razr-hd-ma...

ken• 14 years ago

I don't want to claim to know what Steve would have done, but this does not seem at all unlike him. He was extremely focused on user experience, but he was also a huge believer in bringing technologies under Apple's control, and making hard decisions that would benefit Apple and Apple users in the long run.

I can think of plenty of things that Apple did that everybody hated on day 1 because they caused immediate pain, but in the long run were for the best. The decision to drop almost all existing connectors for USB. Mac OS X (which was just unusably bad for a year or two, if your apps even ran on it yet). The Intel transition.

The complaints continue today: the Macbook Retina display means half my apps look bad, and the Lightning connector is a slap in the face to everyone with 30-pin docks. And Maps version 1 is terrible (even though they look better than Google's first Maps release, to me).

No surprise at all that Apple wants to be in full control of every app they ship on iOS. The last time I remember them doing that on the Mac was perhaps Internet Explorer. Can you remember how bad Safari 1.0 was?

JofArnold3• 14 years ago

I look forward to an Android phone that doesn't look utterly ghastly. I know this is shallow, but my phone is a device which I use to interact with the world far more than any other so it needs to avoid offending my eyes.

The moment Samsung or someone came out with a beautiful, fast Android phone with great hardware and a decent manageable size (S3 is too big) I'd buy it in a heartbeat. The software itself is pretty great - especially the camera app on the S3 for example.

MatthewPhillips2• 14 years ago

I think the One X is a beautiful device personally.

http://www.htc.com/www/smartphones/htc-one-x/

epo3• 14 years ago

You can't make an omelette ... It'll be interesting to see the pace of development of this vs Google's inevitable maps app.

The mapping must be updated OTA so won't require IOS refreshes to improve the quality. But for now this app is like the stereotypical bimbo, quite pretty to look at but also pretty useless.

marknutter3• 14 years ago

You know what else sucks on the iPhone? The notes app - That's why I use Evernote. And the tasks app - that's why I use Clear. And the mail app - that's why I use Gmail. And iBooks - which is why I use the Kindle app.

Point is, you can download an app that works better for you if you're not happy with Maps anymore, just like you could with all of the other built in Apple software. I think Apple really needed to control their own destiny with the Maps software, and most non-geeks are probably not going to notice that their Maps app is getting it's data from somewhere else now. They probably didn't realize it was coming from Google Maps in the first place.

AncientPC• 14 years ago

This illustrates another pain point for Apple: the inability to change default applications.

Say Google releases a maps app for iPhone. Every time you get an address in a text, email, Facebook, Yelp, etc it's going to open up in Apple Maps requiring you to manually copy/paste everything in another app.

marknutter3• 14 years ago

I agree completely, this is a significant problem.

paulgb2• 14 years ago

>> Point is, you can download an app that works better for you if you're not happy with Maps anymore, just like you could with all of the other built in Apple software.

Unless it “duplicate features that come with the iPhone” (http://m.techcrunch.com/2009/07/27/apple-is-growing-rotten-t...) or requires its own rendering engine (http://www.afterdawn.com/news/article.cfm/2008/11/02/opera_m...) or competes with a profitable arm of Apple (http://m.lifehacker.com/5614752/grooveshark-iphone-app-pulle...)

anextio2• 14 years ago

None of those things apply anymore.

pmjordan3• 14 years ago

Mobile Safari is slow and crashy, good thing I can replace it with… waitaminute. As far as I know there's no decent replacement for Maps either; it remains to be seen if Apple will permit a direct replacement. If Google doesn't release one themselves, it could be problematic for a third party to create an app using Google's map API - that's centered around use in web apps, although their "Maps for Business" might be suited. Still, it's a hell of a risk to take. (but possibly with a handsome reward)

eyko4• 14 years ago

Maps on Chrome mobile :-)

k-mcgrady2• 14 years ago

You can replace Safari with Opera, Chrome, Dolphin, or several others. You can't set them as default but you can replace them. There are plenty of map alternatives too - Open Street Map, TomTom, Google Earth, etc.

binarysoul• 14 years ago

chrome

marbletiles• 14 years ago

None of those apps are competing with Apple on a level playing field, because all four of the Apple apps update in the background (via iCloud or special privileges) and third parties either get a restricted version (eg no web API for iCloud) or nothing at all (background mail polling).

webwright• 14 years ago

Yep-- the problem is that apps competing with a native app are pretty hamstrung. Any address you click on on a web page, in an email, in a calendar event etc-- are going go the Apple App. The alternative is an awkward copy-paste. It's similar to the power the IE used to destroy netscape before the DoJ stepped in and forced them to allow people to change their default browser. Apple isn't anywhere near a monopoly, so won't be forced to change this soon.

purephase2• 14 years ago

It seems like such an innocuous thing, but Maps can truly make or break a phone decision. There is no question that Android has a considerably better user experience when it comes to Maps given the lead that Google has. That being said, Apple certainly has the cash and time to devote to this and a better competitor (and more effort in OSM) means that we all win in a way. So it will be interesting to watch it play out.

One minor gripe with turn-by-turn. If I'm playing music/podcasts, I would have expected the volume to mute on the other media when driving directions are announced. Not so, it just turns into a garbled mess.

The compression on Siri kind of sucks too.

k-mcgrady2• 14 years ago

>> "One minor gripe with turn-by-turn. If I'm playing music/podcasts, I would have expected the volume to mute on the other media when driving directions are announced. Not so, it just turns into a garbled mess."

I don't really sue turn-by-turn but from what I understand it's supposed to lower the volume of other media playing when announcing directions and then bring the volume back when done. Might be something you can change in the settings.

MattRogish3• 14 years ago

It does this on mine (I haven't done turn-by-turn on iOS6 final, but when I was on the betas, it performed as expected)

adriand• 14 years ago

I understand the experience may not be ideal (I haven't tried it out yet, either), but take a moment to reflect on what they actually did: in a little over a year Apple completely replaced one of iOS's core technologies, one that relies on a mind-bogglingly complex and astoundingly huge data set, and is now pushing this out to millions of devices.

Most of us know what it is like to have to launch something. Launching something is never easy. We frequently talk about the MVP here on HN as well. Apple has done the difficult work of launching their MVP. Now they can make it better. It may never be as good as Google Maps, but that doesn't mean it will always be terrible.

smackfu2• 14 years ago

>in a little over a year

That's just a made up timeline. They may have been working on a maps replacement for years.

bennyg• 14 years ago

His point is still pretty valid. How long would it take you to develop and roll out the maps application at the quality it is now, for a MVP?

dusing• 14 years ago

Whatever length of time it is Apple still did it in a fraction of the time Google has been working on its maps.

Also maybe I live in a weird place (Minneapolis) but I've been using the new maps since WWDC everyday and honestly have no complaints, the turn by turn is quite good as I just used it non stop in New Orleans.

eyko4• 14 years ago

And what's the point if it's a downgrade for users? To prove they are "awesome"? Nobody said it's easy to launch, we never doubted that.

We are simply stating a fact - that iOS6 feels handicapped if you're going to rely on maps. And maybe this is a non-issue in the USA, but for most of the rest of the world… it is. Specially for those of us who rely on google map's transport directions to navigate our city, or new cities. Gone were the days that I needed help to get to a designated location in a city I was visiting… until iOS6 came. So I'm not upgrading.

And we're not going to care how awesome Apple is for distributing a useless upgrade to millions of devices, no matter how complicated the logistics, no matter how much of a point they can prove with it.

stephen_g4• 14 years ago

It may not have been Apple's choice. It's more likely that the reason they had to do this was over licensing problems.

VikingCoder• 14 years ago

This is a poor defense of a lousy product.

Sure among technology wonks, it's a good discussion.

But that in no way excuses releasing a major component that is broken for many users.

WiseWeasel• 14 years ago

For something so critical as maps on a smartphone, Apple should have released the new maps alongside the old ones, and given users the option; let the early adopters iron out the bugs. Needless complexity is not the Apple way, but I don't see a choice in this case; the feature is too critical to compromise on.

wonderyak2• 14 years ago

This is not an MVP of some new SaaS. This is maps on a smartphone; perhaps the most important feature of a smartphone other than the dialer. To do this so jarringly to your users is inexcusable.

toddmorey• 14 years ago

The big problem I see is that Apple effectively removed street view from the iPhone as it's not even available in the mobile safari version of Google Maps.

I don't mind that they are working on their own maps, but I can't believe they couldn't have licensed Google maps for at least another year until their solution matured or offered some sort of advantage. The first iPhone brought the best mobile maps experience. The latest iPhone brings the worst.

To me, the real test is whether Apple will allow a map application from Google to coexist on the iPhone. I'm hoping they do. It's the right thing to do.

nicholassmith5• 14 years ago

The issue is we don't know why they stopped licensing, although if you follow the scuttlebutt Google hiked prices of mapping, followed by Apple announcing their intent to ship their own maps, followed by Google dropping prices of mapping. Might have been an unsuccessful negotiation, Google might have made high demands, Apple might have been cads. No one knows, what we do know is the licensing agreement expired and they couldn't arrange a new one.

liotier• 14 years ago

Disappointed with the iOS 6 maps ? Why don’t you give OpenStreetMap a try ? http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/IOS - it won't give you pretty satellite imagery, but maybe you'll like the maps.

homosaur3• 14 years ago

In many places OSM is the most accurate mapping system and overall it's very good, but my problem is, has anyone yet built an app worth a crap on top of it? One with turn by turn, etc?

chippy• 14 years ago

Yes they have, so the problem may be one of findability, or marketing of these apps.

tonfa• 14 years ago

I thought iOS maps was based on OSM (+ other datasets when OSM had a bad quality), similar to mapquest.

bgarbiak• 14 years ago

The greatest disappointment (for me) comes from the fact that free turn-by-turn navigation is not available for iPhone 4. That particular feature made me happy about Apple's switch from Google's to their own solution. I couldn't care less for Siri, flyover maps or panorama (seriously, that one is iPhone 4S+ too), but navigation? That's a deal breaker. If Google won't provide this with their app I won't stick to iOS when my contract ends.

homosaur3• 14 years ago

I've been on IOS 6 since a few days after the beta came out and I can tell you that the new Maps is nearly worthless, especially if you've entered a decent amount of data into Google Maps. Yes the navigation sucks, yes there's other huge basic issues, but the killer for me is that I have over 270 starred places in Google Maps and without being able to get to that data, Apple's new option is nearly useless.

I don't want to gloss over how much the basics suck on this app, they suck profoundly. The bookmarks is the worst loss though. I have an iPhone for work but I'm very glad I no longer am under a personal iPhone contract because with the lack of features in IOS 6, I don't see how I'd ever go back to using an Apple phone full time.

homosaur3• 14 years ago

It's a KILLER atlas though, way better than Google Earth on iPad.

brudgers6• 14 years ago

It's just Apple's turn. It has been said many times, "It's an early version of an application Company X copied from another company. I'm sure Company X will improve it to a workable but inferior product in future versions."

The first debacle with their Maps app (not crediting OpenStreetMap.org) gave me the feeling that Apple doesn't really have experience with software and data at the scale upon which they are currently operating. Sometimes it looks as if they are using too many interns to write important code.

What is a concern is that there seems to be no grasp of the difference in responsibility a developer must recognize between GarageBand and a mapping application. Sure it is irritating if one's remix of Call me Maybe doesn't come out quite the intended way. But an appendicitis sufferer may die if they wind up five miles from the hospital.

vsl2• 14 years ago

Correction: OSM data was used in iPhoto (and on OS X, I think?), not maps.

saturdaysaint• 14 years ago

Around me (SE Michigan) it's a huge improvement over both the old Maps app and any of the turn-by-turn iOS alternatives I've tried. Using Siri and saying "directions to..." any local business I can think of brings up turn-by-turn directions in a snap, and it looks great. Smooth animations, great fit and finish on the UI. I suspect that their European maps are of lower quality and/or the writer cherry-picked some entertaining but not terribly representative examples.

stephen_g4• 14 years ago

The maps around me in Brisbane, Australia seem pretty good, but I only spent five minutes playing around. All the searches I tried (some for street addresses, some for POIs) got the right address.

So far it seems no worse around the city than Google Maps but only time will tell if that's the case.

jsz0• 14 years ago

Apple's Maps have been good for me so far in the north east United States. I greatly prefer the UI of Apple's Maps to Navigation on Android which is way too cluttered IMO. I find it easier to get things done with Apple Maps especially with the way turn-by-turn is integrated with the pop-over notifications and lock-screen integration.

andrewcooke• 14 years ago

is this particularly bad in the uk? there's now a guardian article too - http://www.guardian.co.uk/technology/2012/sep/20/apple-maps-...

epo3• 14 years ago

No, just people piling on, and probably the Guardian using the BBC as a news source.

objclxt3• 14 years ago

Actually, I'll disagree with you there and say that I have found the Apple map tiles to be pretty poor in London. Paddington Station, one of the main commuter rail hubs in the city, is missing entirely (the Underground station got added in recently, but the mainline station remains invisible), and the geo-coder is considerably poorer than Google's.

I develop iOS apps for a living, and I really like the platform. I've also been using the beta for about three months, and frequently I've had to pull my Galaxy S2 out to use the Android maps app. Most people won't have that luxury.

prof_hobart2• 14 years ago

It is certainly not great where I am (Nottingham). The satellte view is currently, depending on which area of Nottingham you are in, either a vague grey cloud or huge pixelated squares.

I've got a cafe that seems to have appeared three doors down from me in a residential street, and if I search for public transport it suggests the best app for me to get to work on is one for the Paris Metro.

I am a big Apple fan, and although I've also got a Galaxy SII (for work), I've pretty much never felt the need to use that ahead of my iPhone so far. It's just become my go-to phone for mapping though.

lookingsideways• 14 years ago

I'm not sure what it's like in other parts of the country but from the south east cost these are my experiences so far:

A huge swathe of the south east has no aerial photography whatsoever beyond a satellite level where contrails are clearly visible.

I tried requesting a route from my current location to a nearby train station and it gave me a route to a random pub in the next town over - this was for a search term that worked reliably in the old maps app.

Maps themselves show much less information than the equivalent google maps view. There's a fraction of the POI's available and those that are available are often 100m+ off from their actual location.

lectrick• 14 years ago

1) Go to maps.google.com in Safari on your iPhone or iPad

2) Hit Yes when it wants to know your location

3) Hit Yes when it pesters you to add it as an icon (for once, it's not bothering me). The icon is snazzy.

4) Enjoy your almost-as-good-as-the-app-was mobile Google Maps experience. Complete with transit directions. But, alas, no Street View.

panacea• 14 years ago

Permit me a small moment of pride at my choice of life-partner.

I asked my wife if I could upgrade her phone to the new OS, but that the map app has changed for the worse and 'You may not like it... How often do you use it?' 'A few times a week'.

She's not a geek whatsoever. Has never installed an app and barely touched a preferences setting. Loves listening to the podcasts I subscribe to for her and tell her which app to use.

So I hand her the 'upgraded' phone and ask her to check out the new map app. She does a search for the office she's working in tomorrow and it pinmarks the completely wrong end of the street.

I felt bad about 'upgrading' her phone, but a minute later she hands it back to me.

She's moved the Apple map app onto the second screen and replaced it with a weblink to the Google maps site.

Clever girl ;]

mikeevans• 14 years ago

Almost-as-good, but it doesn't open the app when you click an address, since there's no way to make it the default app. It'd be the same problem even if Google did release their own native Maps.

uslic001• 14 years ago

The new maps is way off. I took 4 pictures last night while fishing. When I looked at the gps data of where I caught the fish one was on land and three others were 4 miles off as they had me on the other end of the lake I was fishing on. Apple really messed up with this change.

joelhooks• 14 years ago

I've been using the maps and find them MUCH improved in the car. I wish I could turn off the voice prompts, but it is very usable and has got me where I'm going reliably.

spitx3• 14 years ago

>Here in Manhattan, where I live, basic search by building names is profoundly degraded in Apple's maps search. "Bloomberg" doesn't find the Bloomberg Tower; on Google Maps it's the first result. Searching for its address "731 Lexington Avenue" yields that address on Lexington Avenue in Brooklyn. It's fine to think that perhaps I wanted the address in Bed-Stuy, but even appending "NY, NY" or "Manhattan, NY" still yields the Brooklyn address. Google maps has none of these comprehension issues. I understand this is due to Apple partnering with Tom Tom, whose maps are considered to be lower in quality than other players like Nokia, but I'm not informed enough to say with certainty whether that's the case.

http://dashes.com/anil/images/lexington-map.jpg

Source: http://dashes.com/anil/2012/09/who-benefits-from-ios6s-crapp...

potatolicious• 14 years ago

I've noticed this problem also. With the old Google Maps app, there were very rare and very infrequent obvious failures of searches. If I searched "741 Lexington" it'll take me to the right place in Manhattan always.

Whereas in iOS6, I swear, the search is wrong more often than it's right. It will take me across state lines, across the country, and sometimes even across the ocean for a search that Google has no problems comprehending.

This isn't a data issue, this is a technology issue.

gyardley• 14 years ago

Noticed this today. I wanted to get the cross-street of an address on Broadway.

First, I get an address on Broadway in Bayonne. Okay, almost plausible, since I was in Hoboken. I append 'New York, NY' to the address. Now I get an address in Brooklyn. Completely ridiculous. I append 'Manhattan, NY' to the address. Still Brooklyn.

At that point I added Google Maps to my home screen. If someone posts a clear guide to jailbreaking iOS 6 and re-adding the native Google Maps app, I'll probably do it.

cstross• 14 years ago

Another annoying loss; no pedestrian or cycle routes, as far as I can see.

As I'm mostly a pedestrian -- I have a car, but live in the centre of a dense city where parking is a nightmare, so I walk rather than driving if at all possible -- from my point of view, this is a major regression.

marknutter3• 14 years ago

There was never an option to see cycle routes.

objclxt3• 14 years ago

There are pedestrian routes in some cities, but not all. I only know this because I was in San Francisco last week and I actually got offered them, whereas in London I'm SOL.

NameNickHN• 14 years ago

Apple probably underestimated the complexity of creating and providing useful maps. I read an article recently that explained how much effort Google puts into their maps. From what I understand, every map tile has been manually reviewed and reworked based on satellite images and the data from the Google street view cars. Google is years ahead of Apple with this. It'll take a while until Apple's maps are par with Google's.

epo3• 14 years ago

I wonder what the behind-the-scenes truth of this is? Apple must have known that their mapping solution wasn't ready for release.

Perhaps Google forced their hand or Google pulled the plug knowing that Apple would dump them eventually but weren't ready to do so quite yet. If so, then don't expect Google to offer a maps app for some time yet because it is to their advantage to let Apple stew.

oozcitak• 14 years ago

There are localization issues as well. Some place names in Turkey appear to be transferred over from legacy windows-1254 code page (e.g. Avcılar displayed as Avcýlar) Some have replacement letters for certain characters (dotless i, ş, ç, ğ). For example, "Sık orman" (dense forest) became "Sik orman" (penis forest).

Overall (at least in Turkey) the legends appear to come from an old, low quality source.

kalleboo• 14 years ago

Here in Japan, I managed to spot a place with a Hangul (Korean) label! God knows how that happened...

blinkingled• 14 years ago

According to Gruber and Rafer Apple seems to have a plan : for this plan to work however, iOS users must keep using the inferior Apple maps and Google must stay away from giving them a chance to continue to use their own ones - that will make quality of Apple maps go up and Google maps go down - they will meet in 18 months.

Gotta admire people's willingness to stretch here :) But seriously I think Google will just release a Maps app for iOS sooner or later. They've done that with most of their apps - it may not be as good and functional as Android one but it doesn't have to - the bar has been lowered.

MattRogish3• 14 years ago

As a long-term Apple user/fan, I'm both incredibly disappointed and intensely optimistic with this change.

I've been using iOS6 since the first beta and saw the backlash coming. I think "Street View" is Google Maps' killer feature and no amount of "3D View" is going to replace the ability to virtually drive your route (or see the storefront, the turn you need to make, etc.).

On the other hand, Google has a habit of releasing amazingly disruptive products (maps, gmail, etc.) and then the pace of innovation of each app slows dramatically. What was the last "innovation" gmail did? Priority inbox? Buying Sparrow?

I'm optimistic this is the start of an arms race in the mapping area (Apple: please tackle email next); this needed to occur sooner rather than later. We don't know the circumstances of the switch (it seems equally likely that Google precipitated the change as Apple did) but given Apple's knack for taking a MVP and continually, doggedly improving it, I think the future is bright for iOS Mapping.

mburshteyn• 14 years ago

Do you think Apple would have any chance in an arms race over Search with Google? If the answer is no, why do you think Apple has any chance in Maps?

MattRogish3• 14 years ago

On the desktop? No.

On iOS devices? Absolutely.

w1ntermute• 14 years ago

The issue here is that maps is about data, not about UI or hardware, or any of Apple's core competencies. Whereas Apple doesn't know anything about data, it's Google's bread and butter.

Sure, there are a few things you can do with the UI, but ultimately the new "wraparound" feature when you go around a corner in Apple Maps is worthless when you're driving, since your eyes should be on the road. But ultimately, creating a good maps product requires year after year of intense data collection and sorting, something that you can't just rush through.

> On the other hand, Google has a habit of releasing amazingly disruptive products (maps, gmail, etc.) and then the pace of innovation of each app slows dramatically. What was the last "innovation" gmail did? Priority inbox? Buying Sparrow?

Sounds a bit like everyone's favorite mobile OS from Cupertino. What was the last "innovation" in iOS?

Siri? Barely works in real life, regardless of what they might claim in TV ads.

Notifications that actually work? That was in Android for years before Apple copied it whole hog.

Copy and paste? Are you shitting me?

psychotik• 14 years ago

The Bing iOS app has transit and good mapping features. I'm surprised folks aren't using that as an alternative.

bdreadz• 14 years ago

Said it in another thread. maps.google.com in iOS. Bookmark to home screen.

To the people talking about this is a sign of Steve Jobs being gone. I'm sure he had his hand in wanting to get away from Google Maps. These types of things were still part of his plan. AppleTV (the none hobby version) is part of his plan. We haven't seen that. There is still a trail that Steve laid down we are walking on. It's more 5-10 years from now I imagine that will lack the touch. Maybe it is fading. It's still there though. imho.

caycep• 14 years ago

from what i've seen, the real issue is probably the text parsing algorithms need work. I tried a few addresses - about 70% were correct. the ones that weren't just seemed like the algorithm wasn't recognizing town, state, etc

scottschulthess• 14 years ago

I find the new maps app really good, one of the best driving direction apps I've seen. It is an improvement over waze in UI and the enhance backgrounding is awesome.

Maybe not as feature rich as some of the alternatives, but what do you expect in a v1? They will iterate, though the yearly releases means it will take time but it will get there. In the mean time the app store provides a lot of options for users to replace lost functionality.

siri• 14 years ago

I am using IOS 6 beta since last few months in India, it just gives the message directions could not be found even for a locations 100 meters away.

eckyptang• 14 years ago

Another plus for Microsoft/Nokia.

Windows Phone with Nokia Maps / Nokia Drive is actually really good and it's not about to disappear overnight.

ChuckMcM2• 14 years ago

I am reminded once again at how much it takes to put together a "maps" experience like Google Maps does. That Apple's initial version sucks rocks isn't particularly surprising, there is a lot of integration and a lot of data, the world is a really really big place. Its very hard for humans to curate it too.

Next up, Apple will get their own direct source of satellite imagery, then they will drive/fly around major towns getting direct information about local restrictions, then they will build a system which does nothing more than cross-connect and correlate GIS data from various sources and test for sanity. Perhaps they will create a crowd sourced tool for directly feeding map errors into the system to triage the worst areas.

Its a big undertaking.

marklabedz• 14 years ago

Is the experience any better when utilizing Siri as an interface? If you ask Siri for directions instead of relying on the built-in search functionality, is it any better or would both Siri and iOS maps query the same database?

Siri --> Address --> iOS nav via street address

tptacek• 14 years ago

I like the new Maps app. I know it's objectively horrible and am not disputing any of the ironclad cases everyone else has made against it. All I'm saying is this: I punched in directions to Lao Sze Chuan in Chinatown last night, driving from Oak Park. I threw my phone on the passenger seat and drove. The sensible route it plotted for me was unworkable due to traffic, so I detoured through UIC campus. The moment I diverged from its route, without me doing anything, it replotted a new route, and then a series of new routes as I ignored those directions, until I got to Roosevelt and followed its directions the rest of the way there --- which were much better than the route I would have taken.

Obviously, I fall into a specific class of Maps user:

* Using directions primarily when I'm driving

* In a major city

But that's a big class of users and, so far, Maps is better for that use case. The Maps app from 10.5 was unusable for driving.

mootothemax• 14 years ago

But that's a big class of users and, so far, Maps is better for that use case. The Maps app from 10.5 was unusable for driving.

Thank you, you've written a more useful summary review of the new maps app than anything else I've read lately.

I've tried driving with the previous Maps app - with a borrowed iPhone, I don't yet own one - and was really surprised at how unusable it was. I was left thinking that not a single person on that project could have attempted to drive on their own with it, otherwise how else could it be so bad?

rant over

ryanpers• 14 years ago

I also gave the driving directions a shot, the voice cues are great, the visuals look fantastic and really awesome. Also when you deviate it doesnt give you some "ROBOT RECALCULATING" voice, instead she smoothly cuts over to the next set of directions.

The new 3d looks good, the map tiles need work but they just look DIFFERENT and not necessarily "worse" to me. This is in SOMA San Francisco.

myndpage• 14 years ago

>The moment I diverged from its route, without me doing anything, it replotted a new route, and then a series of new routes as I ignored those directions, until I got to Roosevelt and followed its directions the rest of the way there --- which were much better than the route I would have taken.

That's how every directions' app is working. You are seriously impressed about that?

dkroy• 14 years ago

As a developer this kind of update makes me happy since it might result in Apple giving up some of its mobile phone market share to Microsoft and Google. I would much rather develop in Java or C#, instead either struggle through Objective C or use a third party developer tool to avoid doing so. Although, as an iPhone user it makes me sad. The UX with the iPhone has been amazing. I chose to use this phone even though I dislike all that is apple, just because to me when it came to my user experience it was leaps and bounds ahead of any other. Now that one of my most used apps has been pushed out temporarily it kind of makes me nervous. I have even heard who have applied iOS6, have lost all of their photos, luckily since I rely on a few jailbroken apps had not updated.

JofArnold3• 14 years ago

Assuming Google releases an iOS Maps app, I'd much prefer them to do that and make regular updates than leave it to Apple just 3 times a year. Having said that, the fact they didn't include an option just to save $1b a year is beyond absurd.

001sky• 14 years ago

Satellite images of various locations, particularly in Scotland, are obscured by cloud.

--Satalite images obcured by clouds. TomTom=WTF.

labizaboffle• 14 years ago

Does anyone remember when Mapquest and then Google Maps first started? Bad directions, etc. was the norm.

The only thing that is wrong with Apple doing this is that they didn't release as "beta" and make a big deal about how users can turn on the "beta" switch to test the cool new things, or the "alpha" switch and get shit that might break their phone but gives them superpowers no other geek has.

epaga• 14 years ago

In my mind, this will be the first major test of Tim Cook as a CEO. This is not "I get a bad signal if I hold the phone the wrong way". This is "my iPhone drove us to the wrong hospital so I wasn't able to say goodbye to my grandfather".

Problem is, I don't see what they are supposed to do except throwing massive amounts of money and manpower at the problem - but even that will take a long time to fix the major issues that are in iOS6 Maps.

It will be very interesting to see how they react to this problem.

New Apple maps app under fire from users

Related Stories