CLion Is Now Free for Non-Commercial Use

https://blog.jetbrains.com/clion/2025/05/clion-is-now-free-for-non-commercial-use/

by AlexeyBrin • 1 year ago

624 351 1 year ago

blog.jetbrains.com

bayindirh4• 1 year ago

This is good news. I for one, won't change my toolchain, but having a "free for personal use" alternative is always better, esp. when the license includes open source development.

Like it or not, C++ is not going anywhere in the short and long term, so it's always good to have real IDEs around (CLion, Eclipse CDT, etc.) which can integrate with good instrumentation and give real time feedback on your code.

1over137• 1 year ago

Free version sends telemetry with no opt-out.

bayindirh4• 1 year ago

Yes, that one is a real bummer, actually, but if they're using something like how Go does it [0], at least it's tolerable if you're bound to using it.

[0] https://telemetry.go.dev/privacy

enigma101• 1 year ago

just use a firewall, no?

pjmlp3• 1 year ago

There is your price right there.

ainiriand2• 1 year ago

Can you give us proof of that? I have not seen anything like that in my RustRover usage but it might be that I have missed that.

hiq2• 1 year ago

It's in the article:

It’s important to note that, if you’re using a non-commercial license, you cannot opt out of the collection of anonymous usage statistics.

dardeaup2• 1 year ago

From the link: "It’s important to note that, if you’re using a non-commercial license, you cannot opt out of the collection of anonymous usage statistics."

pasoevi5• 1 year ago

You can still use paid version if you want to turn telemetry off. With the free version, you can either use it and say thanks, or not use it at all.

badsectoracula5• 1 year ago

Indeed, this is one of the various options one has.

Another option is to not use it and be vocal against telemetry, hopefully convincing others to do the same while dissuading other developers (especially in a forum like Hacker News where people that build stuff gather) from adding it on their products.

blibble2• 1 year ago

facebook were certainly slapped down for attempting "consent or pay"

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Consent_or_pay

"anonymised" data is often extremely easy to de-anonymise

ndriscoll6• 1 year ago

It's nonetheless useful for people to warn others about spyware. You can find the tradeoff acceptable (or be willing/able to put the necessary isolation in place) while thanking the other commenter for the heads up.

riquito2• 1 year ago

Not that people are obligated to use IntelliJ IDEs, but it's sad that it boils down to "You can have privacy if you can afford it". But admittedly is better to have the option to use it than not being able to use it at all

rustc• 1 year ago

How is this not illegal under GDPR? I thought asking users to pay money to not be tracked is not allowed.

varispeed4• 1 year ago

So if you are poor, you are ripe for getting your data mined. Excellent.

lern_too_spel2• 1 year ago

They're probably using the telemetry to monitor commercial abuse.

anastasiak2512• 1 year ago

The telemetry is used to analyzed the most used / unused features and to improve the product. For example, it's useful to understand that some specific technology gains more popularity among users and contribute more into its support.

pacman1337• 1 year ago

couldn't we just block the traffic with /etc/hosts?

immibis7• 1 year ago

Then you're presumably committing an actual crime, or at least, their lawyers will see it that way, probably, as copyright infringement because they only gave you a license to use the software if you left the telemetry on.

Someone• 1 year ago

So, they’re contradicting themselves, saying both (https://blog.jetbrains.com/clion/2025/05/clion-is-now-free-f...)

“With the new non-commercial license type, you can enjoy a full-featured IDE that is identical to its paid version. The only difference is in the Code With Me feature – you get Code With Me Community with your free license.”

and (https://blog.jetbrains.com/clion/2025/05/clion-is-now-free-f...)

“We appreciate that this might not be convenient for everyone, but there is unfortunately no way to opt out of sending anonymized statistics to JetBrains under the terms of the Toolbox agreement for non-commercial use. The only way to opt out is by switching to either a paid subscription or one of the complimentary options mentioned here.”

Also, if they find that unfortunate, why did they make the product do that?

codedokode• 1 year ago

there is unfortunately no way to opt out of sending anonymized statistics

There is a way - simply use an open source alternative to JetBrains.

DemetriousJones• 1 year ago

Awesome news

andy_ppp2• 1 year ago

What’s the Duck Duck Go equivalent for editors these days? Everything seems to be spying on me and/or offering to send my code to AI in the cloud.

candiddevmike• 1 year ago

VSCodium without any extensions? IMO it's the extensions that are the big exfil risk, not necessarily the editor.

bartekpacia• 1 year ago

CLion (and other JetBrains IDEs for that matter) doesn’t send any of your code to AI in the Cloud (unless you use sth like AI Assistant yourself, of course)

andy_ppp2• 1 year ago

It does send telemetry and analytics I believe? I should have been broader in the tracking I specified…

badsectoracula5• 1 year ago

I've been using Kate (KDE's advanced text editor) recently.

bayindirh4• 1 year ago

That thing is wicked fast and works really well with gopls.

rockwotj• 1 year ago

neovim

bitwize3• 1 year ago

The old standbys of Vim and Emacs.

bayindirh4• 1 year ago

Eclipse for IDE and KATE for "Code aware text editor".

lknuth• 1 year ago

Helix if you like working in your terminal.

QuadmasterXLII• 1 year ago

vim, with a clangd plugin for ide like navigation and error hints

pjmlp3• 1 year ago

Notepad++, SublimeText, vi and Emacs clones, Netbeans, Eclipse,....

jszymborski• 1 year ago

Eclipse is still around...

symmetricsaurus• 1 year ago

Doom Emacs (https://github.com/doomemacs/doomemacs)

deafpolygon4• 1 year ago

neovim is what I've switched to. Ironically, using ChatGPT has made it easier to adopt and customize.

FpUser2• 1 year ago

I have subscription that covers all their tools. CLion is my favorite when dealing with C++. So glad that hobbyist can use it now

jasonlotito• 1 year ago

So... not that it really matters I imagine, but JetBrains doesn't do pure subscription. Rather, you buy your IDEs, and effectively have a perpetual license to the product you bought. You get free upgrades, and if you keep paying, your license gets updated along with it.

If you don't continue paying, you still have the IDE you paid for. You just don't get updates. This seems like a subtle distinction, but I think it's an important one in the world of subscription services.

https://sales.jetbrains.com/hc/en-gb/articles/207240845-What...

inetknght4• 1 year ago

So it's like what software licenses were 20 years ago. That's a good thing.

FpUser2• 1 year ago

Yep. Having perpetual license is precondition for me buying major development tools.

dismalaf2• 1 year ago

JetBrains does have a subscription option, including a monthly subscription to get all their tools.

mdaniel9• 1 year ago

And I recognize that I'm biased as a JetBrains fanboy, but I think it is just a stellar deal to pay $173/year for the all-you-can-eat pack where you get to keep them if you stop paying

I know folks are going to call out that the entry price is $289/year, but I still think for the number of included products that's still a deal

GreenWatermelon• 1 year ago

I just wish they offered "3rd world economy" prices for those of us not living in rich countries. I would even be totally ok with providing my National ID card to prevent fraud, just like with Hetzner.

The all products pack costs an entire (software developer) month's salary where I live.

WhereIsTheTruth• 1 year ago

I wish they'd extract the debugger and release it as a crossplatform standalone tool, i'd pay for it

freeone3000• 1 year ago

The debugger is primarily lldb, which has the same features (watches, expressions, locals) with not as slick a UI.

kanwisher• 1 year ago

the debugger without the ide doesn't make any sense, just use the ide for debugging

shortrounddev2• 1 year ago

Personally dislike jetbrains UX design but it's cool that Linux has a really good, free-ish IDE

memsom3• 1 year ago

If you use more than one of their IDEs on a regular basis, I'm going to be honest - it starts to make more sense that the change between IDEs is less jarring. I use Rider a lot, and Pycharm and Android Studio infrequently, and I like that all of the IDEs are so similar that I know how to do most things as the settings and menu system is almost identical. I also use the IDEs on Windows, Mac and sometimes Linux - and the UI is similar enough that I do not ever struggle to make something work that I have previously done in any of the platforms or OS versions

jghn• 1 year ago

Also alternatives like VSCode have garbage for a debugging & profiling workflow compared to Jetbrains.

videogreg93• 1 year ago

This is amazing news. As a long time IntelliJ user (Android dev for 7+ years) who wants to start doing more c++, having free access to Clion is a godsend.

eric-p7• 1 year ago

Nobody actually wants to start doing more c++.

discmonkey• 1 year ago

Assuming that the plugin is enabled for the free version, CLion is also amazing for Rust. Thanks Jetbrains!

Here's hoping this won't be abused by smaller companies that will no longer want to pay for the actual subscription. I also wonder if they are moving towards a different funding model, since the IDE space is pretty competitive with a free alternative (VSCode) out there.

ainiriand2• 1 year ago

RustRover is already free for Non-Commercial use! I think it is the best IDE for Rust dev.

weinzierl• 1 year ago

Yes, it is quite nice. That being said I keep a little statistic about IDE usage at the Rust events I attend. I have observed RustRover or CLion only three times at the 48 events I've recorded. One of these three was an event at JetBrains. To be fair, I started my notes long before RustRover existed.

neovim is marginally more popular.

vscode is the crushing majority.

pasoevi5• 1 year ago

Great news. It is beyond me how people are complaining about the free version not allowing to turn off telemetry. Why don't you stick to the paid version if you are bothered by the (anonymous) telemetry?

badsectoracula5• 1 year ago

Because these two are completely separate things.

pasoevi5• 1 year ago

How?

ndriscoll6• 1 year ago

Same reason responsible technologists warned less-informed users about installing BonziBuddy. It was a free product that told jokes or whatever just as it said it would. It was also spyware.

Responsible technologists should raise the alarm on spyware products because they are harmful toward their users. Malware is often given away for "free" (sometimes even sent to you without you asking!), so it doesn't really make sense to say "well that's the deal". Somehow people seem to be forgetting this over the years (I suspect because a lot more technologists make money from participating in the surveillance/malware economy these days, and it's gotten so bad that some of them have started to think malware distribution and exfiltrating (and often selling) user data is not a thoroughly black-hat activity).

If you're okay with adware or spyware or crypto miners or botnet proxies or whatever else running on your computer as a form of "payment", great. You consider that a reasonable "transaction". Other people appreciate being warned about such behavior. In any case, one shouldn't consider the product to be "free" as advertised.

missinglugnut• 1 year ago

Having a checkbox that says "opt out of usage statistics" doesn't protect anyone against malware. Downloading from trusted counterparties does.

hiq2• 1 year ago

I'm curious about what non-commercial means in practice.

Common examples of non-commercial uses include learning and self-education, open-source contributions without earning commercial benefits

What if I start writing code, let's say 80% of a codebase, then for the next 3 months I switch to another editor to write the next 20%, and then commercialize the support (so open-source but with commercial benefits)? Would it be about intent, i.e. it'd be fine if I had no plan to make a business out of it at the beginning, but as soon as there's the idea of a business I should have switched?

I guess in practice this mostly targets companies with 10+ employees so it's fine not to draw the line that clearly?

speed_spread• 1 year ago

It means "stay under the radar if you are cheap". This is Jetbrains, not Oracle, there isn't an army of lawyers out to get you the second you breach the agreement.

dagmx• 1 year ago

It’s a shame but not unexpected that people reward smaller companies giving their products away for free by trying to abuse the spirit of it.

deafpolygon4• 1 year ago

Probably why they want telemetry. Then, if you go on to make billions- they can sue when it's worth it.

subzero06• 1 year ago

If something is free, you are the product - it is "free" but Anonymous data is collected.

dist-epoch• 1 year ago

Exactly, this I why I won't use Linux or Firefox, I don't want to be the product.

creatonez2• 1 year ago

Most Linux distros are completely free of any builtin telemetry. Your fears are unwarranted.

inetknght4• 1 year ago

Linux is free as in free speech. It's also open source.

Firefox... is free as in free beer.

____________g• 1 year ago

I generally agree with the sentiment—if something is free, there’s often a tradeoff. But when there’s a paid tier, the free version can act more like an entry point or hook to get users into the ecosystem, rather than relying on harvesting user data. In JetBrains’ case, broad adoption brings a lot of strategic value on its own (like establishing industry standards or building community mindshare), so it makes sense for them to offer a genuinely free version without necessarily treating users as the product.

zoobab• 1 year ago

So it will never be in Debian.

hbn3• 1 year ago

I'm super happy JetBrains has been opening up all their editors to offer free access for non-commercial use. I've never made any money off of my occasional side projects, so I could never justify the cost to pay for a license when I may go an entire year without using. But I really love their editors - their key mappings are an extension of me at this point, it's so smart about figuring out how the code works and letting you find usages or refactor without thinking, and their git UI is basically the only way I find git tolerable.

I may or may not have been abusing the fact that my university let me keep my email address as an alumni to squeeze more years out of their free access for students, though that seemed to stop working for me at some point a year or 2 ago. But I'll happily take this instead!

rob74• 1 year ago

I'm super happy JetBrains has been opening up all their editors to offer free access for non-commercial use.

All? That would be news to me! From the 10 IDEs (not counting ReSharper, which iss a plugin vor Visual Studio) listed on https://www.jetbrains.com/ides/#choose-your-ide, only CLion, Rider, RustRover and WebStorm are free for non-commercial use. Plus, each of the products has its own free or discounted licenses for certain users (e.g. students).

jackwilsdon• 1 year ago

There are community editions of IDEA and PyCharm which are free for commercial use too.

NoboruWataya• 1 year ago

I have been using PyCharm, IDEA and Android Studio for free for a while now. I'm not a student or any special category of user. I think you only get "core" features for free but they sure still among the most featureful IDEs that I have used.

hbn3• 1 year ago

Well, I said "has been," as in, in-the-process!

I'm not sure why the staggered rollout, maybe there's strategic reasons certain ones will never have a free non-commercial license. But so far they've been consistently opening them up one-by-one.

lolinder2• 1 year ago

"Has been opening" is the present perfect continuous tense [0], which describes something that started in the past and is still ongoing. In TFA JetBrains says explicitly that this is a process that they intend to continue assuming it goes well.

[0] https://www.grammarly.com/blog/grammar/present-perfect-conti...

dardeaup2• 1 year ago

Not all of them. I believe it's IntelliJ, Rider, CLion and maybe 1 or 2 others. GoLand for example is not yet free for non-commercial use.

NoahKAndrews4• 1 year ago

It's CLion, Rider, RustRover, and WebStorm, IntelliJ is not on the list.

So far they haven't muddied the waters for any versions that already had free Community Editions (IntelliJ and PyCharm). The Community Editions are more limited, but don't restrict commercial use.

vishnugupta• 1 year ago

They have this terrific plan where if you buy yearly subscription you will get the major version free for life even after you stop paying after one year.

I was pleasantly surprised when I discovered it. Been using it since then for like 3-4 years now.

William_BB2• 1 year ago

I used to be a CLion user. Unfortunately, it could not keep up with our large and heavily templated C++ codebase. Although CLion Nova with the new ReSharper engine improved things a lot, we found our custom clangd with emacs/vim/VSCode to still be much faster and convenient.

I know CLion also has clangd, but I believe it's their own fork. I am also not sure if you can enable all clangd features since it's not the main engine. I'd be happy to hear people's thoughts about this.

mdaniel9• 1 year ago

My experience has been than complaining into HN does not result in changes to software. Have you submitted a profiling dump to YouTrack?

I have a lot of sympathy for someone trying to make an IDE (or any introspection tooling) because the number of ways humans can come up with to organize or author code is unlimited. So, I'm sure they would welcome feedback on "hey, watch out, modeling templates using this mechanism has bad perf in this IDE component"

William_BB2• 1 year ago

Not complaining at all! I have just heard of other people facing the same issues and assumed that this must be a well-known problem. It might also just be template heavy projects -- maybe it works great otherwise. I don't have much experience with CLion in other contexts.

varispeed4• 1 year ago

Why would you do that for a commercial product without getting paid?

throwaway510342• 1 year ago

It's a commercial product. Expecting people to work for free for a billion dollar company seems a little out of touch. JetBrains can contact GP and discuss rates if they value that data.

sgt• 1 year ago

Incidentally, I recently tested Zig and I decided to try out CLion as the Zig IDE. Seems to work great with the ZigBrains plugin. It's still in development but ready for use.

cgh• 1 year ago

Thank you, this is excellent information. Hopefully it beats the Kate + LSP experience.

wizrrd• 1 year ago

Make all IDEs free for non-commercial use to attract more users who might pay for services in the future — a win-win strategy.

inetknght4• 1 year ago

Oh hell yeah! I used CLion about 6 or 7 years ago at my job, and it was a pretty great product for small projects. It used to slow down really bad for a medium-sized project though and I switched to VSCode.

I've since moved on to new employers, but I'd love to check it out again.

It’s important to note that, if you’re using a non-commercial license, you cannot opt out of the collection of anonymous usage statistics. We use this information to improve our products.

Well, it's basically true for MS-branded VSCode too. I now use VSCodium.

But I'm heavily against Microsoft. I don't like usage statistics collection, but at least this is a direct competitor to Microsoft.

I had a chance to speak to some of the JetBrains folk at CppCon a couple years back. It was really nice and reassuring.

I'll check it out for personal projects and see if it's improved since years ago. :)

riquito2• 1 year ago

> It’s important to note that, if you’re using a non-commercial license, you cannot opt out of the collection of anonymous usage statistics. We use this information to improve our products.
Well, it's basically true for MS-branded VSCode too. I now use VSCodium.

How's that "basically true"? That's false. You can opt out. In fact there's very good documentation around that

https://code.visualstudio.com/docs/configure/telemetry

hyper57• 1 year ago

According to Microsoft's own license terms for VS Code, you can't opt out of all telemetry; see Section 2a: https://code.visualstudio.com/license

You may opt-out of many of these scenarios, but not all, as described in the product documentation located at https://code.visualstudio.com/docs/supporting/faq#_how-to-di....

Also, each extension (including Microsoft's) may collect its own telemetry. The blog post https://www.roboleary.net/tools/2022/04/20/vscode-telemetry has more details.

Personally, I think it's a shame that JetBrains get such flack for collecting telemetry in their free products when Microsoft do the same in VS Code with hardly anyone voicing the same level of criticism for it.

nsm• 1 year ago

Jdk improvements and the new Nova/Rider backend how dramatically improved JetBrains performance. I highly encourage you to give it another shot.

voidspark2• 1 year ago

The CLion language engine was completely rewritten since then.

paxys4• 1 year ago

It's wild to me that Jetbrains has been making so many top-tier IDEs, languages, runtimes and other developer products for 25 years now and is valued at maybe $5B, meanwhile we have months-old "pre-revenue" startups releasing AI coding wrappers and raising money or being bought out for twice that.

OtomotO• 1 year ago

The power of hype.

The same was true for Web3, Crypto, Machine Learning...

SJC_Hacker2• 1 year ago

Was crypto really hype? BTC has been around for almost 15 years now, and has been on a bumpy rise up to multiples of its value

FergusArgyll2• 1 year ago

I don't know how anyone can still say Crypto was "hype". Sure the vast majority of it is but USDC alone market cap is north of 60 Billion, there is nothing speculative about USDC. You can't make money by someone else losing etc etc. Tether stablecoin is ~150 Billion. Just those two, means the value of Crypto minus rug pulls, scams or anything else is over 200 Billion - more than the value of OpenAI

atemerev4• 1 year ago

Well, that's the difference between being in Silicon Valley and not being there.

oytis• 1 year ago

Isn't this criterion just a bit irrational for people entrusted with investing billions of dollars?

ToucanLoucan• 1 year ago

Because the products being good isn't what investors look for. Investors look for good business. And, assuming they can actually make it work, putting together AI coding apps that get software "engineers" to outsource enough of their thinking to a machine that they can then jack the price through the ceiling on and make bank via enterprise billing is incredibly good business.

However that is a load bearing if.

TiredOfLife3• 1 year ago

Cursor is 2 and Windsurf is 3 years old.

miroljub• 1 year ago

Those are not even IDEs. They are just forks of a fork.

keepamovin5• 1 year ago

Aw shit, I guess I should stop doing actual products and just go where the fad is. That's what the "smart money" does, I guess. I mean, isn't it smart to pursue maximal profit? Max payoff - you can use it to fund other things!!!

ujkhsjkdhf2343• 1 year ago

You're being sarcastic but yes. If your intention is to take large sums of cash from investors and run off with a fat check then that is exactly what you should do.

homebrewer• 1 year ago

Integrate it over time and you'll get a different result: JetBrains will still be with us 20 years from now, while these "AI" startups will go the way of NFTs and blockchain long before that.

hbn3• 1 year ago

But their founders ran off with a fat paycheck so the system worked as intended

riku_iki3• 1 year ago

I (and many others) use LLM for coding tasks multiple times a day, its very unlikely they will go the way of NFTs.

nsonha3• 1 year ago

They're a great company but geopolitics is working against them.

Also AI should not be lumped together with literal fraud, that's lazy.

scialex• 1 year ago

They are hoping that those companies will become like synopsys and able to sell per seat subscriptions to their software for huge amounts.

That or they just drank the Kool aid

lvass• 1 year ago

This is the norm. The gaming industry glaringly works that way since it came into existence. There are a lot of privately owned companies creating awesome stuff that stay awesome until/if they decide to IPO or sellout to a public company. Public company owners mostly have terrible incentives and time preference which makes everything turn to shit.

varispeed4• 1 year ago

Are these IDEs really top tier though? I found them slow and laggy. Switching to even something like VS Code was night and day difference.

I have PTSD from accidentally opening CLion or PyCharm. Fans starts spinning and there is dozens of seconds wait to close this thing down.

not_kurt_godel3• 1 year ago

As someone with decades of software engineering under my belt, my opinion is they are the best IDEs out there by a comfortable margin. It's possible the issue you're encountering when accidentally opening them is due to index updates which would occur disproportionately often on startup for people who otherwise never use them. Other than that, performance is more than satisfactory 90+% of the time in my experience.

Maxatar• 1 year ago

That's just it. In my company there are basically three sets of developers. The very experienced ones prefer vim/emacs. The experienced ones tend to like these more established IDEs, and the younger developers absolutely hate these IDEs and find them to be slow and bloated.

I can't really comment on whether they are good or not since from my perspective I see people who are productive and unproductive using both of these tools, so to me it just looks like mostly a matter of preference. But newer developers don't seem to like these established IDEs and see them as you said: big, slow and laggy.

koakuma-chan2• 1 year ago

Have you tried Fleet? It's a next generation IDE from JetBrains and some of it is written in Rust.

simion3144• 1 year ago

Intellij is an IDE where VS Code is a bit mroe then a text editor. When you open a project for the first time it takes time because it is indexed , maybe it will index your dependencies if you did not bother to disable that.

IWhen i open a file /project from a collegue that uses VS Code is filled with errors and warnings because their VS code text editor is not actually understanding the code they are editing.

insane_dreamer2• 1 year ago

Can't speak for CLion, but for heavy python development, PyCharm is much better than anything else out there that I have tried.

colechristensen• 1 year ago

Nobody is going to acquire JetBrains at a crazy premium to remove a competitor or to stay a competitor themselves. OpenAI/Microsoft/Google/Meta will.

The valuations are based on trillionish dollar companies fighting over startups.

Honestly it's a little odd JetBrains doesn't seem to be chasing this fad much at all.

nwatson• 1 year ago

Jetbrains has "AI Assistant" and "Junie" (the latter is much like "Claude Code"). Junie is a great AI coding assistant, seems to be on par with Claude Code (and can use Anthropic models e.g. Claude Sonnet, or other models).

Also, Claude Desktop can be configured to serve Jetbrains MCP Server, which will let Claude Desktop (or any other coding AI/LLM) connect and control Jetbrains IDEs, including changing project configuration, listing / finding files, editing files, looking at VCS diffs.

So I believe Jetbrains is addressing the AI coding assistant market, they're not making as much noise and perhaps they should be ... feature-wise I think Jetbrains IDEs + AI integrations will be as good, in the long term, as other systems. At least I hope so, because I can't let go of PyCharm, Webstorm, IntelliJ IDEA, Goland, et al

renewiltord• 1 year ago

I've had a Jetbrains license for years. I barely use their stuff now. Cursor is much less capable IDE but better coding environment. At first I'd use them both on the same thing but now it's all Cursor.

SJC_Hacker2• 1 year ago

The thought is if AI turns out to be what its billed as, you won't need IDEs.

It would be like investing in a horse-and-buggy whip manufacturers around the turn of the century.

nine_k2• 1 year ago

The fun thing is that JetBrains do have AI, and it's pretty good.

They can't invest in AI the amounts that Microsoft can, of course.

jimbokun• 1 year ago

Well in that case you won’t need tools like Cursor either.

Just vibe code away and never look at the source it’s generating.

duped• 1 year ago

People love to crap on VC but it's a great transfer of wealth from the rich that have so much money they can give it to other people to gamble for them by paying people to drop out of school to build things that will never make a return on investment. \s

disgruntledphd22• 1 year ago

From pension funds and insurance companies, you mean?

tomjen32• 1 year ago

I have stopped using Jetbrains to switch to Windsurf. Their "mere wrapper" is that good.

regularjack• 1 year ago

JetBrains AI now does essentially the same thing as Windsurf and Cursor. My prediction: JeBrains IDEs will be around in 5 years, Windsurf and Cursor won't.

emsign• 1 year ago

That's called dumb money, because greed lowers the IQ.

dismalaf2• 1 year ago

It's the difference between bootstrapped companies and VC backed or public ones. Bootstrapped companies don't have any growth expectations whereas the funded ones do and are priced based entirely on speculation.

csallen3• 1 year ago

Some relevant and timeless facts:

- Generating revenue from customers is about more than just creating a great product. You also have to reach lots of customers and convince them of your value. Many naive idealists think only product matters (or should matter), and neglect distribution. But most people eventually come to understand that both are necessary, and that this is practically a law of physics, not something to moralize about. (FWIW JetBrains is quite good generating revenue, and I'm fairly certain their revenue dwarfs that of Cursor and Windsurf.)

- Whoever is paying you is your customer, no matter what alternative word we use for it. If you're an employee, your customer is your "employer." If you're being acquired, your customer is your "acquirer."

- In most cases, acquirers are playing the role of investor. Investors value returns. If you want to provide value for an acquirer, then, you need to convince them of the future value of your business should it be acquired. That's usually best done through growth trajectories.

- It's perfectly valid to continue generating revenue year after year without being acquired for eye-watering sums. It's a waste of your emotional energy to become jealous or indignant when others get acquired or succeed with less work. Good for them, just keep doing you. That also goes for the rest of us in the peanut gallery. We don't need to attack recent successes to defend the honor of our favorite incumbents.

echelon2• 1 year ago

This should be nailed to the wall.

Almost everyone here is providing business value in service of these rules of the universe. Those who aren't in cost centers probably need to reflect on this reality more.

gizmo686• 1 year ago

When analyzing the value of a young, pre revenue company, one of the things you want to look it is how established comparable companies are valued. For AI coding assistants, the field is too young to do that directly. However, they are competing in the space of "developer productivity tool for writing code". That space is an established market that is currently dominated by IDEs.

Seeing young companies which are pre-revenue, which are competing for an unproven yet crowded sub market (AI coding assistant) out value an established incumbent in the larger space does not compute.

Add to this the fact that there is very little moat for AI coding assistants. Assuming the market as a whole proves itself, there is a very good chance that the winners will be the established incumbent IDEs who can add AI assistance as a feature in their established products.

All of that is to say, current AI valuations in this space look a lot like a bubble.

immibis7• 1 year ago

It's not a waste of emotional energy to consider how to convert a company from the $5-billion slow and steady type to the $10-billion instant acquisition type. Indeed the premise of our economic system is that maximum value is created when people continually strive to maximize the values of their companies.

kiviuq• 1 year ago

That is none-sens.

If that were true, all profits would go to the customers. No, you are hired because the company and its owners can extract the profits from your work. Laying you off could mean nothing to customers, but even more profits to them.

pacetherace• 1 year ago

That's pretty much the comparison between Tesla and old-time car manufacturers. Most people who are trading Tesla stock don't even look at other car stocks.

giancarlostoro4• 1 year ago

What kills me more is originally when they released Kotlin, and I saw Kotlin Native, I assumed they would go all in on Kotlin Native, and allow you to produce fully native JRE based apps (JRE based in the sense that it can take full advantage of those libraries the JRE provides, or any plain old Java Object) and produce native and highly performant binaries.

It seems .NET already has a really mature AOT, I'm really hoping .NETs AOT reaches the point where all .NET code can be AOT'd someday.

I feel like Kotlin could do so much more, but its stuck in standstill. There's even some language features that are still missing such as Inline Classes, Pattern Matching, and even Reflection, all things that Java supports directly.

ternaryoperator• 1 year ago

Programming languages are high-cost, low-revenue beasts. When Kotlin was first released, JB was hoping it would replace Java in the enterprise. And as the sole providers of Kotlin tools, they'd have a greatly expanded market.

Kotlin did not replace Java, except on Android. So JB now has a beast they have to feed without an enterprise revenue stream. They do get secondary benefits: they use it internally, etc.

We examined Kotlin in detail for a CLI app and based on conversations with Kotlin developers concluded that it was not sufficient of a Java replacement for us to evaluate further. For those in a similar situation, the greatly increased cadence of Java releases has probably permanently foreclosed Kotlin-qua-enterprise language.

raincole3• 1 year ago

The irony is that there are a lot of "XYZ Native" solution, such as Flutter, Kotlin Multiplatform, Xaramin, etc. But somehow only React Native, something based on a web framework, seems to reach the critical mass.

neonsunset• 1 year ago

There are fundamental restrictions where NativeAOT will never work or be desirable. For example, runtime-compiled regex patterns or any other feature which relies on emitting IL at runtime and creating new members or even assembles and then loading them. Similar applies to compiled expression trees - they are supported in NativeAOT but in the form of falling back onto interpreting them, which has worse performance. Or unbound reflection with patterns that cannot be statically proven and/or analyzed.

Reflection analysis can (and will) be improved but there are hard constraints - a correctly working expression like 'someAssembly.GetType(Console.ReadLine())' by definition would have to root (and force compilation for) every type in the assembly, which is highly undesirable or even sometimes unfeasible for AOT compilation. And there is a lot of code which does exactly this.

The main challenge are packages and frameworks. ASP.NET Core is largely compatible (via minimal API) and so is AvaloniaUI, EF Core has some compatibility assurances and DapperAOT is tailor-made as the name implies, serialization is also a solved problem although you may need to use a different API.

At the end of the day, NativeAOT is not something "to be fully migrated to" because it has fundamental restrictions (some of which also affect other languages like Rust or Go) and having JIT around is a feature for patterns which specifically exploit it but is also a performance optimization (DynamicPGO, better instruction selection especially around SIMD paths, turning static readonly's into JIT constants and apply subsequent optimizations on top of that, this is what makes C# port of Mimalloc so good as it elides dead code with assertions impossible to remove dynamically in C/C++). NativeAOT has its own optimizations, and it will continue to diverge with JIT (e.g. there's a toggle in .NET compiler to repeat some optimization phases, usually it's too expensive for JIT but for AOT it's a good fit, AFAIK there is work to productize this).

The wide perception that JIT-compiled code has to be slower stems from other sources of performance overhead that are typical to languages which happen to use JIT (many of which have "weaker" compilers too), not from the JIT compilation itself. There are technicalities like certain calls have to be indirect in order to support patching the callee address, or inter-procedural analysis which is trivial to prove under AOT may not be so under JIT where new callers/callees may be constructed dynamically or a reJIT invoked which would invalidate the analysis results. JIT also costs additional memory. But it's not a source of worse performance.

cempaka2• 1 year ago

What did you mean by "inline classes" here? My only understanding of that term applies to something like what Java is still developing for Valhalla but has not delivered yet, whereas Kotlin is arguably a little farther along with its own feature with that exact name.

Aurornis3• 1 year ago

The wildest part is that JetBrains has their own AI coding tools and they seem to be very good.

They also have a pre-built customer base to sell them to.

I do think they have a perception issue with devs whose perspective on their products was crystallized back in the 2010s when they were using some old company laptop with 8GB of RAM when they could feel too heavy. With a modern laptop I just don’t care at all if my IDE takes up a few gigs of RAM.

JetBrains also ranks well on things like low-latency input, which surprises a lot of people. They do seem to care about developer experience.

0x1ceb00da• 1 year ago

They have such a nice product! But every release comes with almost the same number of bugfixes and new bugs. I wish it was a more stable product and they were more cautious about adding new features. Every new feature comes with the risk of adding more bugs.

killerstorm2• 1 year ago

I've been using IntelliJ IDEA and similar products for almost 10 years, and I'm not impressed.

Java/Kotlin is their main thing, and yet neither Maven nor Gradle builds are stable. If your build fails or there are some unresolved dependencies, you restart IDE in hope it works...

AI coding tool trial failed for me -- IDE told me it's not activated even after I activated it on billing portal. And doc implied it might take some time. WTF. Does it take some batch processing?..

People who were able to get AI coding tools working said it's way behind Cursor (although improving, apparently).

serial_dev• 1 year ago

I am using their free product, IntelliJ CE (community edition). I simply couldn’t get used to VS code and its AI derivatives.

Possibly an interesting data point is that my company pays for every engineers’ Cursor usage, can’t imagine how much it could cost, but they don’t have any encouraged integration with JetBrains… so while JetBrains products are good, I’m wondering if Cursor simply has a better sales team and hype pushing them to higher valuations

raincole3• 1 year ago

The wildest part is that JetBrains has their own AI coding tools and they seem to be very good.

Which one?

Last time I checked JetBrains' AI tool and it was laughably bad compared to Copilot. My bar was quite low already as I hadn't even used Cursor by the time.

Edit: What I tried is "JetBrains AI Assistant". I haven't tried Junie yet.

throwaway20372• 1 year ago

    > With a modern laptop I just don’t care at all if my IDE takes up a few gigs of RAM.

IntelliJ (and its siblings) are like the Airbus A380 of IDEs, and I am fine with it.

po26511• 1 year ago

I have truly loved using Jetbrains IDEs for Java, Go, Typescript and have subscribed to the full toolkit at personal expense for many years (it was the grandfathered pretty cheap price that ends this year). But when trying to use it for Python, the code intelligence was so poor I finally gave VSCode a try. It was much better at Python analysis at the time though I assume Pycharm has improved since then. But I'm not going back - Jetbrains still tends to have better refactoring, good features like running individual Go table tests, etc. But it's a killer feature for me in a team to be able to share a workspace or settings JSON file in a repo to get all developers on the same page. .idea has never worked well and I suspect most people assume it won't work.

If Jetbrains reimagines their settings persistence story, I'd be happy to give that a try since otherwise it's quite great still!

vel0city3• 1 year ago

"If you show revenue, people will ask how much and it will never be enough. The company that was the 100x or 1000xer becomes the 2x dog. But if you have no revenue, you can say you're pre-revenue; you're a potential pure play. It's not about how much you earn, it's about how much you're worth. And who's worth the most? Companies that lose money."

- Russ Hanneman

adeptima• 1 year ago

this guy .....

tandr2• 1 year ago

    > And who's worth the most? Companies that lose money.

I am failing to see the logic in this, sorry.

melenaboija• 1 year ago

Well, all this is only a small fraction of the two trillions Nvidia has gained in valuation since 2022.

karolist• 1 year ago

I gave them a year of subscriptions before cancelling recently, the devcontainer implementation in their Ultimate versions is laughably bad, bugs upon bugs and tickets where their support staff just bounces it up with "still no fix" messages and customers are finding workarounds, i.e. downgrading docker installs.

Remote SSH is terrible too, handles network latency spikes by repeating keystrokes. I remember spending an evening trying to fix something in the integrated shell and giving up, but sadly forgot what. I like what they do with Go though. Anyway, back to nvim here, not for me.

symlinkk3• 1 year ago

+1, the Remote SSH is horrible. Takes forever to connect and is extremely laggy once you have connected. Feels like they’re practically streaming video of the UI back to you instead of VSCode’s Remote SSH which feels indistinguishable from running locally.

insane_dreamer2• 1 year ago

Not to mention that JetBrains is implementing AI agents into their current products -- if I'm already a user of IntelliJ, PyCharm or CLion, etc., why would I switch to Cursor or Windsurf?

xnx• 1 year ago

This does seem very unfair, but don't believe any of the numbers being used to value these OpenAI acquisitions. If it's not cash, it's just a lottery ticket.

tekknik• 1 year ago

Maybe because I don’t want multiple editors and/or subscriptions. Give me one that does it all.

deafpolygon4• 1 year ago

When it's free, you are the product:

"It’s important to note that, if you’re using a non-commercial license, you cannot opt out of the collection of anonymous usage statistics. We use this information to improve our products. The data we collect is exclusively that of anonymous feature usages of our IDEs."

I'm aware it's common practice, but it's always good to read the fine print.

sofixa2• 1 year ago

Do you think JetBrains are making money of usage statistics of their IDE?

It's much more likely they use those stats to know which parts and features of their products are used, and therefore which need improvements/love/prominence.

deafpolygon4• 1 year ago

I have no idea what they're doing - only that now, the product contains telemetry and if I want to use the free product, I cannot opt-out. I don't consent to being tracked.

globalnode• 1 year ago

If its free, you're the product.

not_kurt_godel3• 1 year ago

Yes, they want you to eventually convert to a paying customer by using their software to make yourself money. How nefarious! (/s)

iainctduncan• 1 year ago

Worth mentioning too that they have free student plans for all their IDEs for university students.

travisgriggs• 1 year ago

Pycharm is my goto for Python; I happily use AndroidStudio when working on our Android apps.

In the past when I tried CLion, I found that its need/desire to use cmake prohibited me from really using it. We have our own build scripts, and it seemed to struggle with that. Anyone know if that CMake bias still exists?

I ended up using Nova on my Mac for C code and have been pretty happy with that.

I would really really really love it if there was an Elixir skin for Jetbrains tools.

chuckadams2• 1 year ago

clion still needs a cmakelists.txt that's good enough to index the project, but it doesn't have to produce a usable artifact -- you can still build with make or whatever else you want. Probably cold comfort if you use a lot of third-party libraries, but otherwise it's a fairly set-and-forget kind of thing.

mdaniel9• 1 year ago

clion still needs a cmakelists.txt

I don't believe that's true anymore.

I previously saw in their release notes that Makefile-based projects were out, but while digging up supporting links it seems their project formats list has gotten quite sizeable https://www.jetbrains.com/help/clion/project-models.html

And they have a "what can CLion do with projects in those formats" table further down that page: https://www.jetbrains.com/help/clion/project-models.html#:~:...

ferguess_k• 1 year ago

Just curious, for low level mid-size projects ON LINUX, like a simple OS or a compiler, is Clion over-complicated or suitable? And how does the debugging look like?

I'm using VSCode with a manually written Makefile, and all of my debugging lives in gdb tui mode in a separate terminal. I do prefer a better UI though, but right now it's fine.

One concern is that Jetbriain IDEs usually takes a lot of memory. I do have a 16GB laptop though, so should be fine.

90s_dev2• 1 year ago

JetBrains IDEs always had difficult and unintuitive default keyboard shortcuts. I think it's just because of its age (same is true with Visual Studio). Whereas VS Code's out of the box shortcuts were relatively great. If JetBrains IDEs shipped with VSCode-style shortcuts as an option (not necessarily default) that I could switch to without having to manually remap everything, I'd be so glad to use them.

grondo4• 1 year ago

They do? Or at least the Jetbrains IDE I use the most (IntelliJ) will ask you the first time you start it up if you want to use VS code keybinds

90s_dev2• 1 year ago

Wow you're right. To be fair it was about 9-10 years since I last tried it, so either it didn't have that back then, or I forgot that it did.

leovander• 1 year ago

They do have those options out of the box. I immediately switch them over to the VSCode bindings when on a new work machine.

https://www.jetbrains.com/help/idea/configuring-keyboard-and...

nsonha3• 1 year ago

they have a VS keybinding option out of the box, but the VSCode one is also available on the Marketplace

xp842• 1 year ago

They do. There are a ton of keybinding sets to choose from right there in the options. Heck, when i first started, I chose Textmate bindings!

OrvalWintermute• 1 year ago

I've been a quite happy Jetbrains All Products Pack subscriber for several years now.

perrygeo• 1 year ago

As good as LSP and other tooling has gotten recently, there are some C++ projects that just need a proprietary IDE for proper code navigation and completion. A lot of times my choice is a) spend 3 hours debugging why neovim's LSP is putting squiggly lines everywhere or b) just fire up CLion.

ivanjermakov• 1 year ago

Huge benefit of current rise of "C++ killer" languages is that they're designed with LSP support from day 1. I had a great experience with Rust and rust_analyzer: open any project in LSP-capable editor and it just works.

AmalgatedAmoeba2• 1 year ago

Are they though? * Rust was designed before even vscode was released * Zig, Odin, JAI are all designed by people that don’t use LSP and don’t like it * Don’t know about Carbon, but it currently doesn’t look like it’s gonna kill anything

It seems to me that rust analyzer is something of an exception

gh0stcat• 1 year ago

This is cool, I briefly looked at using this to work on an unreal project, does anyone have any experience with using CLion with unreal? Is Rider or VScode still ideal?

chpatrick• 1 year ago

I used to use CLion but switched to VS Code with the clangd extension. It's by far the best and snappiest C++ coding experience I've had.

mcflubbins3• 1 year ago

Great, but how about letting me have my paid, licensed Rust rover open on two PCs simultaneously?

I have my work PC which I leave on pretty much 24/7 and if I forget to close RustRover, and try to launch it on my desktop (for personal project, or to just work from another room) I get an error that I already have a licensed copy running and it closes RustRover. Sometimes I wake my Laptop from sleep and it does this because I still had an old window open. Really unnecessary...

seatac762• 1 year ago

I just bought the annual license for all IDEs did not know this was a restriction that’s a bummer. Surely they can do some pattern analysis to determine which systems belong to a single license.

Aurornis3• 1 year ago

It’s not a restriction for personal licenses.

EDIT: Or if you a corporate license and have the same OS username on both computers.

Jtsummers• 1 year ago

https://sales.jetbrains.com/hc/en-gb/articles/206544319-Can-...

https://intellij-support.jetbrains.com/hc/en-us/articles/207...

For personal licenses it's a non-issue. For commercial, use the same username on both computers. If you have floating licenses, you need multiple licenses.

mcflubbins3• 1 year ago

Can confirm this doesn't seem to occur anymore, they must have fixed in the past few months.

Aurornis3• 1 year ago

You just have a corporate license: https://intellij-support.jetbrains.com/hc/en-us/articles/207...

And you have different operating system usernames on both computers. It says if you have the same OS username on both you’ll be fine.

This works fine on my personal license with different usernames.

mcflubbins3• 1 year ago

This works fine on my personal license with different usernames.

I just checked on my two machines different OS, different OS usernames.

Both copies of Rust Rover are signed in with the same account and have the same license.

I just tried launching RR on both machines and... I didn't have the issue that I've been struggling with for what seems like forever. This WAS definitely 100% an issue before though, I was trying everything to find an different editor to switch to.

The article you linked was "Updated November 5, 2024 at 11:17 AM"

So its possible they made a change since I stopped trying to do this and got in the habit of closing RR out on each machine... and didn't realize they actually did fix it.

Thank you.

hiatus• 1 year ago

Can anyone comment how this compares to Dev-C++?

int_19h4• 1 year ago

It has working code completion for C++ (including templates), for starters.

demarq• 1 year ago

This is a good move, more people will unwittingly be running a trial of the product.

I suspect there’s a whole lot of devs who’ve never experienced paid IDEs vs VsCode. Plus the community is about to grow insane.

Interested to see what happens

the__alchemist3• 1 year ago

These are so interesting. From my perspective using PyCharm and RustRover: By far the best code editors, in terms of introspection and refactoring. The only ones I've used that model my projects correctly; VsCode and Sublime etc make it feel like I'm editing files, where are IMO the wrong abstraction.

I experience major performance problems. They periodically bring my 9950 CPU to a crawl, or freeze, requiring a force-kill. (RustRover more so than PyCharm, but both are guilty). Memory hogs. (Feels like they leak memory). This is consistent behavior over the years, across a range of project styles.

I put up with the performance problems because of my first point!

The interesting/amusing part to me: My experiences do not seem wholly consistent with other users: Many users seem to find these IDEs heavy, but don't experience the freezes, crashes, or memory leaks. And many (most?) people claim VsCode is fine for managing multi-file projects. I don't know what to think!

winrid2• 1 year ago

That's insane, I use webstorm, pycharm, and Intellij, sometimes all at the same time, on a mobile 8th gen i7, it doesn't lock up. The single thread passmark score is literally half your cpu! :D

winrid2• 1 year ago

Although I guess none of those projects are more than 150k loc.

ackfoobar• 1 year ago

... RustRover: By far the best code editors ...

I'm using RustRover. It's pretty lame compared to the IntelliJ experience. "Find usages" does not separate test code and application code; "copy reference" gets me the file name and line number instead of the fully qualified name.

I'd probably use vscode/cursor fully if I weren't so used to the JetBrains environment.

trallnag2• 1 year ago

Are you experiencing these problems on your personal device or is it a corporate provided one full of scanners? IntelliJ is definitely slower on my work laptop compared to my private desktop. Might also be due to the larger project size and heavy usage of Spring, though

the__alchemist3• 1 year ago

Various personal devices over time.

sensanaty• 1 year ago

I have my work project loaded on my home PC, and to be fair it's a beast of a PC, but still it's insane how much power is wasted on the work macbook from the stupid MDM software running on it. It feels blazing fast on my PC, and the slowness is unbearable sometimes on the work laptop.

andrewstuart• 1 year ago

I really wish JetBrains released its terminal as a standalone product. It’s one of the best.

mdaniel9• 1 year ago

This might not help you, but it is actually a plugin so there's a very small chance with enough determination you could get it to run outside the IDE https://github.com/JetBrains/intellij-community/tree/idea/25...

The follow-on [rhetorical] question is what value it provides to you outside of its integration with the IDE (e.g. click to open, it being integrated right into the window of your editor, etc)

giancarlostoro4• 1 year ago

One thing I wish JetBrains would explore is building a fully native NON-JRE text editor that is a direct competitor to Sublime Text, but has a rich plugin API. I would love to see their take on a Sublime like editor. Atom and VS Code were the only serious Sublime Text competitors for a while, but now VS Code has gotten insanely bloated over the years, and also Atom is defunct unfortunately.

I would love to see them build a fully native editor with their decades of knowledge.

hiccuphippo2• 1 year ago

They have Fleet which was supposed to be a competitor to VSCode. AFAIK it's written in Kotlin so still JRE (unless they are able to compile it to native?).

Maybe Zed would be more interesting for you.

taylorallred• 1 year ago

I love jetbrains IDE for all sorts of features (their git tools like diff checker are unmatched imo). I've been wanting to use them for C++ for a while now specifically because I find that many LSP solutions are not that great. Looking forward to using the non-commercial version of clion!

Artoooooor• 1 year ago

Wow! Thank you for sharing, I would miss this otherwise.

geophile2• 1 year ago

This is a love letter to JetBrains.

I started using Intellij with the 3.0 version, I think. It just worked, even on Linux. (It was existence proof that you could build excellent UIs in Java.) Unlike Eclipse, and other forgotten IDEs that were so bad I discarded them immediately. Even early on, their refactorings were usually flawless. While I think I found one screwup, they were so good that they changed the way I coded. I could easily and reliably do refactorings that were otherwise pretty time-consuming and error-prone. I have continued using their products: mostly PyCharm now, and occasionally CLion.

Each new release improves the UI, and occasionally adds features that I find useful, and many that I don't. I suspect that I'm not alone in using a very tiny portion of the features they offer. How they can keep up with all the languages, and libraries, and frameworks is beyond me, but they seem to do it.

Their support has always been excellent. I once (v4?) complained that refactorings did not extend into configurations. E.g., if I rename a class Foo to Bar, then the runtime configuration running Foo didn't reflect the change. I reported it, and found a fix in the next release. Email with technical questions or bug reports is always handled promptly and thoughtfully.

They have always provided absolutely fantastic products for free. Yes, you gave up some features, but the free versions are really useful. I'm retired now, but continue to pay their licensing fees every year, for my hobby usage, because it's worth it, and they earn it. And the licensing is not onerous to use. What I really like is that you don't have to be on the internet to use their products, just for the license check. I wish all licensed products did that.

And beyond all this: They haven't sold out. They are one of the very, very few for-profit tech companies that have maintained a stellar level of product breadth, depth, quality, and support for such a long period of time. I'm sure they could have cashed in, sold to IBM and the product would have just rotted away, (sorry, IBM, but you know it's true). I can only think of one product that is comparable in this way, and that's Postgres.

Thank you, JetBrains, you have Figured It Out.

mdaniel9• 1 year ago

I was expecting you to end with "and don't squander the amazing track record of developer goodwill you have accumulated by forcing the stupid-ass 'New UI' on us, or telling us that we're committing code wrong, or somehow suddenly trying to go 'All AI' or whatever"

I'll be straight: for me personally there is no replacement, and I'll just patch the "unsupported" Commit Like a Sane Person plugin[1] indefinitely if I have to, but ... come on, don't strain our relationship like that

1: https://plugins.jetbrains.com/plugin/26647-modal-commit-inte...

geophile2• 1 year ago

Of your three possible critical endings, the only one that affects me, even a little, is the new UI, but then I tend not to care too much about UIs. I appreciate a good UI, will give up on a product with an unintuitive UI (looking at you, Eclipse), but otherwise I just don't care. I immediately liked the new look. It took me a day or so to get used to it, and now I find it completely comfortable.

Xss3• 1 year ago

Just bought it last week. Oops.

DidYaWipe• 1 year ago

That's interesting. This led me to their page, which also touted the now-free WebStorm.

Can anyone weigh in on WebStorm vs. VS Code for JS/TS development? I'm developing a back end with Deno running locally, and VS Code has been decent for debugging and using the language runtime. Would WebStorm offer any advantages?

ixmerof• 1 year ago

YESYESYES

Alifatisk• 1 year ago

Very cool and I am quite thankful for Jetbrains free contribution! I understand peoples concern with telemetry but I can understand that there is some kind of trade-off from a free product, my wish is that they do the same with RubyMine.

Another thing I would like to discuss is this (it's kind flimsy so bear with me), Jetbrains IDEs are good and clean. One thing I dislike with these IDEs is that they do a lot in the background that feels like is outside of my control. I can't really point my finger exactly to where this feeling is coming from but I only get that impression when I use these heavy IDEs.

Say I want my development environment / settings / workspace config to be easily replicated and configured when someone new joins the project, will their Jetbrains IDE recognize it and prompt the user to adapt? Because that is one thing I enjoy with vscode, EVERYTHING is under my control and I can see what everything does. The buttons that runs different tasks can easily be viewed on .vscode/tasks.json, all config is within the .vscode folder!

In Jetbrains IDEs, some things are local only and you have to ask the peers to screenshare which config they had. I don't want that, I want the whole workspace to be easily replicated and shared.

I know Jetbrains is working on Fleet, I've been trying it out a couple of times and I like it, I hope they take this into their consideration.

CLion Is Now Free for Non-Commercial Use

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