This Is the Gyro-Stabilized, Two-Wheeled Future of Transportation

To be honest, I wasn't sure about the whole gyros thing and thought that it was unneeded complexity, until I realised they were also using them for regenerative braking/power. Then I went ooooo...

If they are really smart with this, and if the gyros are up to the task, they could use them for ultra fast charging as well.

tmuir3• 14 years ago

The gyroscope keeps the vehicle from falling over when stopped. Even without regenerative braking, thats pretty necessary complexity when you can't stick your foot out to add a third point of contact.

ktizo3• 14 years ago

A lever attached to a hinged stand is all the necessary complexity required to stop it falling over when stopped.

vannevar2• 14 years ago

If they added two more wheels instead of the gyros, they'd get passive stabilization and lower cost. They'd also get more room for a larger battery and cargo or passengers. And since roads and parking lots are already designed for 4-wheel vehicles, the extra width wouldn't be much of a disadvantage.

lambersley• 14 years ago

That sounds familiar; electric car

jdietrich2• 14 years ago

Two-wheeled vehicles have a party piece - they keep moving when traffic stops. In a city like London or Paris, a pedal cycle is faster than a car for most journeys. In a city like LA, a motorcycle can be twice as fast as a car during rush-hour.

This has effects beyond the two-wheeled rider; Remember, you're never stuck in traffic, you are traffic. A recent study suggested that if 10% of car drivers switched to two-wheeled vehicles, congestion would reduce by 40%[1]. Currently, riders of motorcycles are at an exceptionally high risk of death or serious injury. A fully enclosed two-wheeler could be every bit as safe as a car.

There are also substantial efficiency savings to be made, due to the C1's very small frontal area. A faired two-wheeler with a recumbent seating position is naturally very close to the aerodynamically ideal dolphin-shape. A four-wheeled vehicle could only achieve similar aerodynamic efficiency by being very long and low, with single or tandem seating, as in the Volkswagen 1L concept[2] or Shell Eco-Marathon competitors. This substantially compromises visibility and turning circle, making such a vehicle very poorly suited to its obvious use as an urban commuter.

[1] http://www.acem.eu/publiq/PTW_Belgium_Study_FEBIAC_ENG.PDF [2] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Volkswagen_1-litre_car

vannevar2• 14 years ago

I'm not sure how safe it would be to split lanes in the C1; it's wider than a motorcycle, and it's being marketed to non-cyclists who may not be so skilled at weaving through tight spaces even with gyros. It would be more aerodynamic, no doubt, but I think we're a long way off from comparing the relative efficiency of electric vehicles. I think range and carrying capacity are bigger consumer concerns.

bunderbunder• 14 years ago

Two-wheeled vehicles have a party piece - they keep moving when traffic stops.

That's primarily due to their width, not their wheel count. This vehicle is a two-seater, so in terms of congestion it probably has a lot more in common with city cars than with motorcycles.

hexagonal2• 14 years ago

  A fully enclosed two-wheeler could be every bit as safe as a car.

Sure... if it also weighed as much as a car. Crash safety is a function of frame toughness and vehicle mass-- the heavier the car, the less G's it pulls when decelerating suddenly (when running into a wall, or being hit by a semi)

Haiperlink• 14 years ago

There is a better solution for that. My neighboor created the Monotracer, also available as electro vehicle. http://www.monotracer.com/ The electronic version also got the XPrice for the most efficient motorvehicle. http://www.progressiveautoxprize.org/teams/xtracer?carId=138

DanEdge2• 14 years ago

As a city car I'm impressed by the Renault Twizy (it's a 4 wheel bike). Okay, so the power output and range are much lower but for shorter commutes when you can charge overnight it seems to make a lot of sense. Relatively cheap too, although you do have to factor in the cost of leasing the battery pack. http://www.renault.co.uk/cars/model/twizy/product.aspx

10dpd• 14 years ago

I'm sure they've considered this, but being able to tilt while cornering at speed is vital for 2-wheeled vehicles. I guess there will be some flexibility to allow the vehicle to tilt without falling over.

jmillikin• 14 years ago

According to the article, the gyros will allow up to 45 degrees of tilt during turns.

TylerE5• 14 years ago

Remember the last two-wheeled, gyro-stabilized future of transportation? The one that was largely a commercial flop, and which the company president (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_Heselden) _drove off a cliff_.

amalag3• 14 years ago

The segway does what it's supposed to do. I think it has it's useful niche. It was marketed as a replacement for all transportation, but that is silly because only because of the cost.

untog2• 14 years ago

Well, no- it was supposed to revolutionise personal transportation. At least, that's what they said when it launched. And the "future of transportation" sounds eerily similar.

fennecfoxen2• 14 years ago

Speaking of cost, this vehicle will start for ~$24,000.

I mean, I'd buy it for... maybe $5000ish, if I were feeling particularly spendy?

untog2• 14 years ago

Worth clarifying that he didn't drive off a cliff in an act of suicide- it was an accident.

slavak2• 14 years ago

This was what I thought they were talking about when I saw the headline. I assumed this was an amused look back on the good ol' days.

I never did understand why anyone ever thought the Segway would revolutionize anything. I don't see the big advantage, and - frankly - you look downright ridiculous riding it.

And yes - I did get to ride it. It's kind of cool for the novelty factor, but I fail to see any incredible advantage over the more traditional alternatives.

jakejake2• 14 years ago

One place I've seen them where I thought they really made sense were in large parks where security guards ride around on them, able to cover a lot of ground using the walking paths.

jackalope• 14 years ago

Or Buckminster Fuller's Dymaxion car? It suffered a similar tragedy: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dymaxion_car#World.27s_Fair_acc...

The first picture in the Wired article shows the driver's unhelmeted head poking out of the roof above the rollbar. Prototype or not, how could the CEO even let a photo be taken of such an obvious safety flaw, let alone allow a journalist to take it for a test drive? Demonstrating a lax attitude towards safety is enough to scare off investors.

BHSPitMonkey• 14 years ago

It's obviously designed to administer as much force as possible directly to the brain in the case of a collision.

dandrews2• 14 years ago

Yes, I remember the Segway. I've owned a pair for five years and have 13,000 miles between them.

It didn't take over the world, but it fits my use case perfectly.

sien• 14 years ago

Why don't you use a bike?

I've done that sort of distance on my pushbike. It cost $AU 750 and it kept me fit.

amalag3• 14 years ago

Will this need redundant gyros? Otherwise isn't it too risky if one blows out while you are driving?

freehunter• 14 years ago

I would hope that in case of a gyro failure the computer would stop listening to the gyros, display a warning light on the dashboard, and you'd be able to bring it to a stop based on the same principles that keep a normal bike upright. You might have to dump it on its side when it comes to a stop, but you shouldn't have to spin off.

The dangers of that are roughly similar to a blowout in a normal car, momentary but nearly complete loss of control.

excuse-me6• 14 years ago

It's a gyro-wheel not a gyro-sensor.

The angular momentum of the wheels is what keeps it upright (laterally). This is different to the Segway which used the motors to control the forward-backward tilt with position input from a gyro (actually an accelerometer)

learc83• 14 years ago

The article says it has 2 gyros. In the test run one wasn't working so they had to test it on just one, and it seemed to work.

amalag3• 14 years ago

I thought it needed both to stay upright, like one on each side that would cancel each other out, my mistake.

timdiggerm• 14 years ago

I bet the future of transportation will remember that many people have children they want to transport with them.

jdietrich2• 14 years ago

In southern Europe, motor scooters and light motorcycles are a substantial part of the transport mix. Scooters are a fast, economical, traffic-beating option. With fuel at over $8 per US gallon, a 100mpg scooter has tremendous appeal. It's quite common for dad to ride a scooter to work, while mum takes the kids to school in the car. A young adult is just as likely to start motoring on a scooter as in a car; Towns and cities in Spain and Italy are overflowing with scooters on weekend nights. Most of those towns were never designed for cars and have a desperate shortage of parking - you can get five or six scooters into one parking space.

A vehicle like this has most of the advantages of a scooter, without the obvious shortcomings. It could fill the same role in the vehicle mix in countries where weather, safety concerns or cultural factors make motor scooters unpopular.

Most car journeys involve a single occupant. That's a luxury we've been able to afford until now, but lugging around four empty seats is seeming ever more wasteful.

dsr_• 14 years ago

If it were much, much cheaper, a one-seater plus room for groceries would make a fine commuting vehicle.

The problem, as always, is cost. My family manages with one vehicle plus public transit, but that vehicle has to be big (people and cargo and distance). Most of the time we could use something smaller, but the minority use case is enough to require the behemoth.

If it were cheap enough, we could really use three vehicles: a commuter, an efficient four-seater, and a seldom used cargo/distance vehicle. That's not how the economics work out, though, so one vehicle has to serve all the purposes.

coenhyde• 14 years ago

Awesome, I hope this gets off the ground.

It would be ideal to become an autonomous vehicle. Most people drive to work by themselves and use a car instead of a motorbike for protection from the elements and collisions.

Imagine how much more efficient the road network would be if it was filled with autonomous gyro-stabilized motorbikes/whatever this is.

rmc• 14 years ago

How much force would it take to knock the C1 on its side? According to Lit, a small elephant would have to hit it broadside to put the C1 on the ground.

So… a car hitting the side then?

kokey• 14 years ago

What I really like about this is that because it's like a motor bike, you actually have time for the airbags to deploy, when it's being tipped over, shoved along, skidding on its side or flying through the air.

RowanH• 14 years ago

Having seen the end result of a low speed collision last night between motorbike and car, with said dude on motorbike tail between legs, and one very raw burnt calf, very much agree there is a lot of merit in this.

For all the arguments of a motorbike, even at low speeds, no matter which way you slice or dice it, you still get the wrong end of the stick if you get hit/drop it.

I myself would make the leap to one of these in a heartbeat when they're production ready. Huge win for small commutes in and around the city, just myself.

slavak2• 14 years ago

To be fair, the big issue with current two-wheeled vehicles is hardly their bad safety against side collisions.

There's a (different) reason medical personnel refer to them as "donorcycles"...

dchest3• 14 years ago

And the past too http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gyrocar

eslachance• 14 years ago

The first one was commissioned in 1912? Sounds like it would have been a great opportunity for Lit to actually release it this year... They won't miss the mark by much, though.

No wait, scratch that, just looked up the word "commissioned"... So if they release it in 1914, they'll have hit the nail straight on. Good on them!

dchest3• 14 years ago

Not sure what you're trying to say. Can you please explain?

rbreve• 14 years ago

They had one of these in Maker Faire

tmuir3• 14 years ago

I talked to one of the guys in the Lit tent, and I remember him saying that they were aiming for the mid teens as a price point, and that they were planning for a higher capacity vehicle that was closer to the price listed in the article. I wonder what changed in the last 10 days.

jff5• 14 years ago

All the seating and cargo capacity of a motorcycle, with the visibility of a car! There's no way in hell I'd split lanes on that thing; when I'm on my motorcycle, I have no obstructions and can see all around me, and definitely know where the edges of my bike are. This looks like a low-slung claustrophobic nightmare.

Even if it is a very technically cool thing.

WiseWeasel6• 14 years ago

Maybe you can split two lanes occupied by other similar vehicles.

ajross5• 14 years ago

I don't think the target market is existing bikers. The idea isn't that you "split lanes" trying to get places faster in a car-dominated environment, it's that you have a reasonable commute vehicle to use as a car replacement. Note that it was designed to have a windshield and roof (although this one doesn't seem to have the windows installed).

mbenjaminsmith2• 14 years ago

I don't think they'll tap any market but motorcycle drivers. The cost -- even their lowered "target" cost of 16k -- will put you in a car of sorts (either a city car or a used one). I sincerely doubt anyone who can afford a four-wheeled alternative would consider this. It's just too small and too dangerous.

Also, the gyroscopes will keep you upright even if you're hit? Yeah right. Let's see how that works out when an SUV hits you at 60.

If it were way cooler -- and remember a Ducati, BWM, or just about any premium bike can be had for under 16k already -- I might consider it as a motorcycle driver. But like the OP said I would feel less safe in it because it's lower to the ground and has much less visibility.

njharman• 14 years ago

Yeah, I thought, ditch the body work and it might be cool.

sp332• 14 years ago

It's illegal to split lanes in most states.

starwed• 14 years ago

And it's not like it's illegal but folk do it anyway -- I have never, ever seen someone do that in my state.

jack-r-abbit14• 14 years ago

As I understand it, lane splitting is illegal in many U.S. states, but is considered lawful in California (though there is no law for or against it... it is simply "allowed"). I might be wrong but I thought the main justification for lane splitting was due to the air-cooled aspect of motorcycles and the harm that can come from sitting in stalled/slow traffic (although, where I live I see this get abused everyday by motorcycles that just want to go faster than the cars around them). Being electric, this vehicle would not have that cooling problem and would have less need for lane splitting. Not being able to lane split would not be a significant negative to me.

Being two wheeled it will be classified as a motorcycle (at least here in California.. don't know if that is everywhere). Being a motorcycle gets you other privileges besides lane splitting like being in the HOV lanes and (in some places) special parking.

cameronh90• 14 years ago

Lane splitting in the UK is allowed and encouraged, as it reduces traffic on the road.

sankyo• 14 years ago

I split lanes (San Francisco) to avoid being rear ended by an inattentive driver. The safest place to be is between 2 cars at a red light. Of course I like going faster than all the cars around me and I can get a block or two ahead of everyone by cruising up to the front of the queue. There is a safe way to split lanes - do not go more than 5-10 MPH faster than the cars, and watch for gaps because a car will change lanes unexpectedly to fill those gaps.

I like the idea of the vehicle in the article mainly for these reasons: more throughput on the roads (every car has only one passenger) and fuel efficiency. I would like to see a world where people commuted in these and only used the SUV for bigger trips.

DanEdge2• 14 years ago

The vast majority of motorcycles are water cooled and have been for some time.

Incidentally, lane splitting isn't being abused when motorcyclists do it to go faster than cars; that's the whole point.

webnrrd2k• 14 years ago

It's been a long time since I rode motorcycles, but I believe that, legally speaking, it works like this: In California you can split lanes, but you can't pass on the right in the same lane. In other words, if you pass on the right side of a car in the same lane then you might get a ticket, but it's legal to pass on the left side of a car in the same lane.

jaggederest• 14 years ago

The gyro-stabilized, two-wheeled future of transportation is the bicycle, people. Seriously.

If you're really into it, you can throw an electric assist motor on.

startupfounder2• 14 years ago

They already have them on kids bikes. Now they just need to upgrade to adult size, lower the weight, strap on an electric motor...

http://www.thegyrobike.com/category-s/93.htm

WiseWeasel6• 14 years ago

And they should build the batteries into the wheel rims for extra stability.

tincholio• 14 years ago

No, it isn't!

jahewson• 14 years ago

Reminds me of the Sinclair C5... and looks equally dangerous on a road which also features real cars.

ChuckMcM2• 14 years ago

This is a cool concept, although I doubt it will be ready by 2014 at their current rate. My reasoning on that is that you have to have a complete pre-production vehicle before you can even start safety testing. But that isn't a knock, I like optimism as much as the next person.

The horizontal flywheel concept is quite cool, and I'm glad they avoided the problem of earlier attempts which just had one (cars that did this would change their front/back weight balance going around turns in a non-helpful way) Having both (and running them in opposite directions!) means you can cancel out that effect.

I'd worry a bit about the need to keep them spun up at 'idle', its a work load that electric vehicles don't normally carry, but you do get some of that back in efficiency gains when using them as dynamic energy storage so perhaps it is a wash. Would love to see the math on that.

If they wanted to hit the tri-fecta of buzzword viral bingo they should use a 3D printer to print the body out of carbon fiber or something :-)

lloeki• 14 years ago

Amusingly the problems you mention are inherent to a two-wheeler, and given the necessary dimensions of the egg-shaped outside you might as well add some more wheels at the corners to solve the stability problem. Then you end up with something like Renault Twizy [0] (look at the top view on page 2 to get an idea of its dimensions), currently sold today starting at 7000€, plus 50€/month of battery rent.

I would not have bet on that vehicle but it seems to be selling, since I already encountered a bunch of them.

A bunch of stats (for the topmost model, as the lower one is limited in power and does not require a driving license):

    13kW/17ch
    80km/h top speed
    0-45km/h in 6.1s
    100km range
    6.1kWh battery 
    473kg with battery (~100kg)

[0] http://www.renault.fr/media/e-brochures/att00409285/ebrochur...

ChuckMcM2• 14 years ago

Nice. That looks like something out of a science fiction movie. More of a golf cart than a car but still, interesting to see that they are in production.

wavephorm• 14 years ago

It's beautiful! I just think it needs a bit more of a trunk.

jack-r-abbit14• 14 years ago

I always wonder how things with no doors do when it rains. It seems if I commuted in that thing and it rained, I'd show to work soaked.

startupfounder2• 14 years ago

"If they wanted to hit the tri-fecta of buzzword viral bingo they should use a 3D printer to print the body out of carbon fiber or something :-)"

I can see the headline now: "Printable Solar Powered Hover Bike Vending Machine Hits Congested Highway Rest Stops"

ahi• 14 years ago

IIRC, two and three-wheeled vehicles dodge a lot of the safety and licensing regulations of four-wheeled automobiles. Partly why there are so many more custom motorcycle builders than custom car builders. I don't know what two-wheels gets you over a three-wheel version except the expense of cool gyros.

hexagonal2• 14 years ago

How much power do the gyros consume?

And, of course, if you're using them for regenerative breaking, then they'll have less headroom to counter tilting forces. If you saturate them with regen load then they won't provide any stabilizing force at all. I hope it has a couple of really beefy power resistors in case the ECU suddenly has to bleed off gyro load in a way that won't cause an uncommanded acceleration.

InclinedPlane5• 14 years ago

This is a non-starter. This fills the same niche as an electric moped at 6% or less of the cost. And people can drive electric mopeds on city streets legally today. For less than half the price someone could buy a used, low-mileage sedan (such as a Civic, Corolla, or Accent), with a trunk, seating for 5, seatbelts and airbags. And then use the other $8k to pay for gas at $5 a gallon for the next 48,000 miles. Or, they could buy 2x brand-new 150cc Honda motorcycles and use the extra money to pay for the gas (at $5 a gallon) for the next 50,000 miles for both vehicles (100k total).

Doesn't make economic sense. Doesn't make safety sense. Doesn't make logistical sense. Doesn't make practical sense. Doesn't make environmental sense.

What's the value add?

katabatic2• 14 years ago

I don't really see this being comparable to a moped. A moped is like a teeny tiny motorcycle - it's an exposed 1 or (at best) two seater with barely any cargo capacity, no protection from the elements, and no crash protection. This should appeal to someone who wouldn't be comfortable on an exposed two wheeler in traffic.

And considering that 80% of trips taken in cars today have a single occupant, the "seating for 5" argument probably doesn't matter to plenty of people. Obviously, it always will for people with kids and dogs to transport, but there are enough people without those encumbrances to make up a very healthy market.

cjensen• 14 years ago

I'm just as skeptical as you, but...

Electric mopeds cannot go on freeways. An electric motorcycle is better for nontrivial distances.

On the other hand, an electric moped which cannot travel faster than 20mph also has an advantage: in California it is treated as a bicycle and can travel on bike paths on major bridges.

My main complaint: if neither electric motorcycles nor self-balancing motorcycles are currently popular, why would an electric self-balancing motorcycle be popular?

InclinedPlane5• 14 years ago

Well, if you want a highway vehicle then you can buy an electric motorcycle for half or a quarter the cost of this thing (such as the Brammo Enertia or the EMC GPR-S).

Electric motorcycles seem to have some degree of minor popularity, but are certainly a tiny niche even compared to plug-in hybrid cars. But the value-add of a self-balancing motorcycle seems highly dubious.

Yxven• 14 years ago

Personally, I've always wanted a vehicle with the speed and fuel efficiency approaching a motorcycle and a 5-star crash safety rating. Motorcycles are a death trap, and I refuse to ride one despite their many advantages.

jack-r-abbit14• 14 years ago

I would imagine we don't have self-balancing motorcycles because we don't need them to self-balance. You can just put your foot down when you stop. But this isn't a normal motorcycle. The enclosure makes it necessary to do something else. Self-balance is what they decided to try. Another option could have been some speed triggered training wheels that popped out but that wouldn't be quite as cool looking.

heliodor• 14 years ago

Talking about safety, why is the driver's forehead right behind a metal beam? Even the slightest head-on crash would lead to death or paralysis!

ricardobeat• 14 years ago

There are a few things going for it:

    - handling is supposed to be better than anything
    - performance of a bike + safety of a car
    - higher mileage than electric cars + faster charge

You are comparing the launch price of a completely new vehicle to market prices of commodity ones. This could be cheaper than a car in the future, and maybe even safer since it won't roll/tip as easily in an accident.

nl• 14 years ago

The whole "won't tip as easily" thing is misleading.

They say it would take "a small elephant" to knock it over. You know what is the size & weight of a small elephant? A car...

Rolling isn't the major cause of crash injuries anyway, it's crush and impact injuries. While this is an improvement over motorbikes in these areas (as well as the critical one of weather protection!) it is nothing like as safe as a car.

FrankBooth• 14 years ago

It won't have better handling or performance than a bike. Just look at it: it's twice the weight of a large sports bike, has a longer wheelbase, it's still hamstrung by having only two wheels, it can't lean over as far as a bike.

It may be possible to engineer some improved safety over a bike, but it will never have the safety of even a compact car. You can't beat physics.

elithrar• 14 years ago

These very much remind of a two-wheeled Can-Am[1], which are "trikes" in the vein of a motorcycle. They're also much larger and would never be able to lane-split (legal or not).

[1] http://www.can-am.brp.com/

bmj• 14 years ago

Actually, they remind me of BMW Isettas[1].

[1] http://microcarmuseum.com/tour/isetta-3wheel-special.html

puivert• 14 years ago

Motorcycles don't have "amazing fuel economy": small cars do <100 g/km and sadly few motorcycles beat that.

mcguire• 14 years ago

This. Admittedly, the aerodynamics of this thing should be better than most motorcycles.

studio816• 14 years ago

I may have missed something, but how does it stay upright when parked? Is there a kick-stand of some sort?

katabatic2• 14 years ago

There was a brief moment in the video where they pulled a support out from under it to demo the gyro-stabilization. Clearly, the rolling prototype doesn't have a kick-stand, but I would suspect some kind of auto-deploying twin-leg kickstand would be added for production. Something that deploys when you turn the ignition off, for example, since you wouldn't want those gyros running all the time just to keep it upright in storage.

drobilla• 14 years ago

For half a century, especially in America, we've been hearing about the "future of transportation" in the form of some car, or car-like non-mass transit device.

The numbers don't work out, the logistics don't work out, and the infrastructure doesn't work out. The future of transit is obviously not cars: not normal 4 wheeled cars, not flying cars, not fancy gyro stabilized two wheeled cars.

Ideas otherwise are quaint turn of the century throwbacks that ceased making sense anywhere in non-rural a very long time ago.

jrockway4• 14 years ago

The problem is that we've poured so much money into roads that any technology that doesn't use them is at a multi-billion-dollar disadvantage.

cypherpunks01• 14 years ago

Reminds me of a recumbent bicycle, which I was always bewildered by - I live in nyc and can never imagine riding around on one because I wouldn't be able to see anything except the backs of vehicles. I feel very comfortable bicycling and motorcycling around the city precisely because I can see very far ahead by being higher up than most cage drivers. I could see this gyro bike suffering from the same problem in the city, which is probably where it was designed for?

geogra4• 14 years ago

I always liked the Velomobile concept.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Velomobile

bitsoda• 14 years ago

While gyros are way cool, adding them for stability reeks of overengineering when simply adding another wheel could achieve the same effect. This reminds me of the urban myth of the Russians using a pencil instead of spending money to develop a zero-gravity pen.

jrockway4• 14 years ago

Why do you need another wheel? I don't see a lot of tipped-over motorcycles lining the sides of roads, after all...

jrockway4• 14 years ago

Why do they need gyros to balance the bike? I can do that myself.

bane• 14 years ago

Looks not that far removed from http://outcaststudios.com/forums/uploads/monthly_04_2011/pos... which makes me very excited.

This Is the Gyro-Stabilized, Two-Wheeled Future of Transportation

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